MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Started by sac, February 19, 2005, 11:51:56 AM

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NCF

Quote from: gohope on April 02, 2012, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: wiz on April 02, 2012, 09:52:23 PM
Thankfully, D3 doesn't utilize the services of the fray for the national anthem.


I think that's what threw the Jayhawks off their game.... ;)
Hahahahahahaha+K
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sac


knightfire

Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 02, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
I looked up the two basketball coaches you mentioned plus Izzo. Here are their conference records:

Coach
Vande Streek          0.755
Knight (Indiana)      0.700
Izzo                  0.685
Weber                 0.578


Why do you repeatedly limit the season to only the conference games?  Does it have anything to do with the 5-5, 5-5, and 5-6 non-conference records that KVS has coached the past 3 years?
He gets paid to coach the entire season so lets use the entire season record instead of cherry picking numbers to make a pig with lipstick look better. :) :) :) :) :)
For a real comparison lets look at how many of those coaches have 20 win seasons for the last 10 years, and # of NCAA appearances.

KVS deserves to be evaluated on his entire body of work, and what I see is a coach whose recent results are far from respectable.
" I feel very humble, but I think I have the strenght of character to fight it".  Bob Hope

realist

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2012, 06:39:19 PM
As an outside who obviously covers Division III on the whole... I haven't had the MIAA in my discussions or thoughts when talking top conferences in the country in the last few years. Those would go to ones like UAA, ODAC, NESCAC, WIAC, CCIW. I would even say conferences like the OAC and NCAC may be better from top to bottom then the MIAA.

The MIAA would be an average to slightly above average conference in my mind. They don't have the depth they used to have, it isn't that competitive from night to night and team to team... it has slipped. I have appreciated what the conference has brought to the table over the years, but when the only game I concentrate on in the conference schedule is Hope vs. Calvin because of the rivalry (when I used to focus on games involving Albion, Trine, etc.)... then the conference is down a bit.

As for a computer system picking the at-large bids... no way. No computer system is going to be able to measure intangiables in Division III, especially when it is far more regionally based then say the D1 RPI system. Sure... we might go to a system that allows all games to count, but there will still be regionally based decisions before at-large teams are selected. You are opening up a hornet's nest of problems when one region gets too many teams based on a computer when some of those teams probably won't deserve it. Schools in weak conferences (i.e. Cabrini) showed that they were better than their numbers indicated... which is why having a human element in the decisions is key.

Thank you for your post.  It is good to have input from someone that regularly sees a bigger picture.
"If you are catching flack it means you are over the target".  Brietbart.

ziggy

What should be the expected record for a coach of non-scholarship players against teams of scholarship players?

ziggy

Quote from: realist on April 03, 2012, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2012, 06:39:19 PM
As an outside who obviously covers Division III on the whole... I haven't had the MIAA in my discussions or thoughts when talking top conferences in the country in the last few years. Those would go to ones like UAA, ODAC, NESCAC, WIAC, CCIW. I would even say conferences like the OAC and NCAC may be better from top to bottom then the MIAA.

The MIAA would be an average to slightly above average conference in my mind. They don't have the depth they used to have, it isn't that competitive from night to night and team to team... it has slipped. I have appreciated what the conference has brought to the table over the years, but when the only game I concentrate on in the conference schedule is Hope vs. Calvin because of the rivalry (when I used to focus on games involving Albion, Trine, etc.)... then the conference is down a bit.

As for a computer system picking the at-large bids... no way. No computer system is going to be able to measure intangiables in Division III, especially when it is far more regionally based then say the D1 RPI system. Sure... we might go to a system that allows all games to count, but there will still be regionally based decisions before at-large teams are selected. You are opening up a hornet's nest of problems when one region gets too many teams based on a computer when some of those teams probably won't deserve it. Schools in weak conferences (i.e. Cabrini) showed that they were better than their numbers indicated... which is why having a human element in the decisions is key.

Thank you for your post.  It is good to have input from someone that regularly sees a bigger picture.

It drives Drew Sharp nuts that Brady Hoke puts a focus on the Big Ten rather than taking a totally national approach. Of course, that puts you in the company of Drew Sharp.

KnightSlappy

Quote from: knightfire on April 03, 2012, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 02, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
I looked up the two basketball coaches you mentioned plus Izzo. Here are their conference records:

Coach
Vande Streek          0.755
Knight (Indiana)      0.700
Izzo                  0.685
Weber                 0.578


Why do you repeatedly limit the season to only the conference games?  Does it have anything to do with the 5-5, 5-5, and 5-6 non-conference records that KVS has coached the past 3 years?
He gets paid to coach the entire season so lets use the entire season record instead of cherry picking numbers to make a pig with lipstick look better. :) :) :) :) :)
For a real comparison lets look at how many of those coaches have 20 win seasons for the last 10 years, and # of NCAA appearances.

KVS deserves to be evaluated on his entire body of work, and what I see is a coach whose recent results are far from respectable.

But you aren't cherry picking.

KnightSlappy

Quote from: knightfire on April 03, 2012, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 02, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
I looked up the two basketball coaches you mentioned plus Izzo. Here are their conference records:

Coach
Vande Streek          0.755
Knight (Indiana)      0.700
Izzo                  0.685
Weber                 0.578


Why do you repeatedly limit the season to only the conference games?  Does it have anything to do with the 5-5, 5-5, and 5-6 non-conference records that KVS has coached the past 3 years?
He gets paid to coach the entire season so lets use the entire season record instead of cherry picking numbers to make a pig with lipstick look better. :) :) :) :) :)
For a real comparison lets look at how many of those coaches have 20 win seasons for the last 10 years, and # of NCAA appearances.

KVS deserves to be evaluated on his entire body of work, and what I see is a coach whose recent results are far from respectable.

Becuase I'd much rather view changes in player/team/coach talent relative to their conference than relative to some arbitrary number (say, 20 wins or an .800 winning percentage or whatever). Conference teams (a) change very little from year to year, (2) are your most direct competition for player recruits, and (iii) are most similarly impacted by external factors (prevalence of nearby NAIA's or D2's, quality of H.S. talent, etc.). It removes many variables from the discussion.

Knight2Day

Quote from: knightfire on April 03, 2012, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 02, 2012, 02:49:16 PM
I looked up the two basketball coaches you mentioned plus Izzo. Here are their conference records:

Coach
Vande Streek          0.755
Knight (Indiana)      0.700
Izzo                  0.685
Weber                 0.578


Why do you repeatedly limit the season to only the conference games?  Does it have anything to do with the 5-5, 5-5, and 5-6 non-conference records that KVS has coached the past 3 years?
He gets paid to coach the entire season so lets use the entire season record instead of cherry picking numbers to make a pig with lipstick look better. :) :) :) :) :)
For a real comparison lets look at how many of those coaches have 20 win seasons for the last 10 years, and # of NCAA appearances.

KVS deserves to be evaluated on his entire body of work, and what I see is a coach whose recent results are far from respectable.

Always good to have someone else on the board not drinking the tainted kool-aid

Knight2Day

Quote from: realist on April 03, 2012, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2012, 06:39:19 PM
As an outside who obviously covers Division III on the whole... I haven't had the MIAA in my discussions or thoughts when talking top conferences in the country in the last few years. Those would go to ones like UAA, ODAC, NESCAC, WIAC, CCIW. I would even say conferences like the OAC and NCAC may be better from top to bottom then the MIAA.

The MIAA would be an average to slightly above average conference in my mind. They don't have the depth they used to have, it isn't that competitive from night to night and team to team... it has slipped. I have appreciated what the conference has brought to the table over the years, but when the only game I concentrate on in the conference schedule is Hope vs. Calvin because of the rivalry (when I used to focus on games involving Albion, Trine, etc.)... then the conference is down a bit.

As for a computer system picking the at-large bids... no way. No computer system is going to be able to measure intangiables in Division III, especially when it is far more regionally based then say the D1 RPI system. Sure... we might go to a system that allows all games to count, but there will still be regionally based decisions before at-large teams are selected. You are opening up a hornet's nest of problems when one region gets too many teams based on a computer when some of those teams probably won't deserve it. Schools in weak conferences (i.e. Cabrini) showed that they were better than their numbers indicated... which is why having a human element in the decisions is key.

Thank you for your post.  It is good to have input from someone that regularly sees a bigger picture.

Realist, haven't heard from you in awhile. Been on vacation?

KnightSlappy

Quote from: knightfire on April 03, 2012, 02:40:18 PM
For a real comparison lets look at how many of those coaches have 20 win seasons for the last 10 years, and # of NCAA appearances.

I hope you're not referring to the D1 coaches that were listed, because you absolutely cannot make "20 win comparisons" with them. They simply play more games. A 20 win season in D1 is the same percentage as about 17 wins in D3.

SBell

Sorry Calvin fans. According to Matt Van Dyk's coach, he's going to Oakland as a preferred walk-on, Cornerstone or Hope.

Civic Minded

Quote from: SBell on April 03, 2012, 06:16:09 PM
Sorry Calvin fans. According to Matt Van Dyk's coach, he's going to Oakland as a preferred walk-on, Cornerstone or Hope.

We've had pretty good luck w/ students who started at Oakland...   ;D ;) :)
2014 MIAA Pick 'Em Champion  :)

Knight2Day

Quote from: SBell on April 03, 2012, 06:16:09 PM
Sorry Calvin fans. According to Matt Van Dyk's coach, he's going to Oakland as a preferred walk-on, Cornerstone or Hope.

I might be behind in the times here, but was Van Dyk supposed to be a Calvinite?

sac

Quote from: goodknight on April 02, 2012, 12:40:10 AM
Calvin lands 6-5 Matt Van Dyk from Imlay City, a Class B honorable mention All-Stater.  He averaged nearly 16 points, 10 rebounds and a half-dozen assists in 21 games in his senior season.

A few weeks ago, SBell noted that Matt had narrowed his list of college choices to three, including Hope.

Goodknight posted this a couple days ago......I had heard the same about Calvin, but I guess we'll just wait and see.  Which as always is the best policy.