Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3910447 times)

Offline Charlie

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: -18
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19260 on: May 25, 2022, 06:38:23 pm »
Roger that Lumber...

I have no doubt things vary by region. 

& I agree with you, hudl film shows it best...just wanted to let people know where they could explore some additional info, provided the HS participates. 

I think "back when" it was very unusual to see such a large amount of data input and it may be a recent trend; certainly in the last 3 or 4 years, but it's really changed at least for here.

Nice when the grades & the stats, match the film...I guess that's what every NESCAC school is looking for! :)

Looking forward to seeing the league in action this season!!

This year is going to be bizarre with Amherst  , Bates , Wesleyan and even Williams going through Huge Coaching staff overhauls.

I still beleive the steady programs like Trinity will prevail. I would have to say based on returning players on both sides and there solid QB play Trinity is the hands on favorite. But thats why they play the games.

Offline lumbercat

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • Karma: 205
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19261 on: May 25, 2022, 07:29:05 pm »
Can't think of many years when Trinity is not the favorite.

Offline lumbercat

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • Karma: 205
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19262 on: May 25, 2022, 07:30:12 pm »
Oh, incidentally Charlie, how is NSCACMAN doing?

Offline Charlie

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: -18
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19263 on: May 26, 2022, 08:46:26 am »
Oh, incidentally Charlie, how is NSCACMAN doing?

I do not know NESCACMAN


Offline Scoops

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19264 on: May 26, 2022, 09:58:20 am »
I think it's difficult to say Trinity is the top team based on who is coming back. I think they have very good young guys coming in, but they lost a kid who was, quite literally, a third of their offensive production. If you look at the stats, Reid, Kirby, and Girard were the only real factors on the Bants offense. Other than Reid and Kirby, all of their other starting skill guys graduated and none of the guys behind them really played. I'm sure they have guys ready to step up, but nobody who is proven.

Going purely off returning players, I think Wesleyan is the clear favorite regardless of staff changes. Wes is absolutely loaded on both sides of the ball. If they can figure out how to defend the pass, they'll be a nightmare. Then it is likely Tufts, who returns their entire offense including Lutz, and the starting QB Woodson who was great before he got hurt, or Berlutti who will only be a year better. Then probably Trinity. I also think the dark horse will be Colby who brings back the bulk of their offense as well.


Roger that Lumber...

I have no doubt things vary by region. 

& I agree with you, hudl film shows it best...just wanted to let people know where they could explore some additional info, provided the HS participates. 

I think "back when" it was very unusual to see such a large amount of data input and it may be a recent trend; certainly in the last 3 or 4 years, but it's really changed at least for here.

Nice when the grades & the stats, match the film...I guess that's what every NESCAC school is looking for! :)

Looking forward to seeing the league in action this season!!

This year is going to be bizarre with Amherst  , Bates , Wesleyan and even Williams going through Huge Coaching staff overhauls.

I still beleive the steady programs like Trinity will prevail. I would have to say based on returning players on both sides and there solid QB play Trinity is the hands on favorite. But thats why they play the games.

Offline nescac1

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5792
  • Karma: 745
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19265 on: May 26, 2022, 10:38:14 am »
I know Williams suffered some huge losses and there is a big question mark at QB in particular, but man, it really does seem like folks are sleeping a bit on a team that went 9-0 and whose defense completely shut down both Wesleyan and Trinity late in the season.  The Eph D could be even better next year -- the entire two deep on the defensive line (which relied last year on five guys who had never played a college snap before) is back, including DPOY candidate Ian Devine, who missed the end of the year with an injury and whose absence was really felt in the Amherst game.  So the Ephs should be much stouter up front.  The top six defensive backs are all back as well, including the starting CB who missed nearly the entire season with injury. The Ephs will have SIX seniors, all of whom have have seen a ton of snaps, in the defensive backfield.  There is some uncertainly at LB, but because of how many injuries the Ephs suffered at that position in particular last year, the Ephs have five guys who played big roles at LB back including an all-league anchor in Coleston Smith.  And that is a position where Raymond always finds guys to make an impact, even if it means a position change. 

Even though Maimaron's trickery with the ball and elusiveness really helped the running game, the Ephs should certainly be able to run the ball, with four huge offensive line starters back (one who started late in the year due to an injury) and three elite TBs, including Nicholas, who is poised for a massive year after playing hurt last year and is certainly one of the two best backs in the league.  So yeah, the passing game is a big unknown, but Williams should be just as dominant, if not more so, in the trenches as it was last year. 

To me, it looks like a three-way toss-up between Williams, Wesleyan and Trinity (if i had to give the edge to one, it would be Wesleyan, just because they have nearly everyone back and had a lot of bad injury breaks last year), with Tufts in fourth.  The Tufts offensive will be so explosive but it seems like they lose around half their key guys from a defense that wasn't good to begin with.  Amherst was so up and down last year but I'd still put them above Colby in the pre-season rankings. 

Offline Scoops

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19266 on: May 31, 2022, 06:23:41 pm »
Middlebury went 9-0 and proceeded to fall into the middle of the pack. And they brought back most of their important pieces in 21. Williams certainly had an impressive season, but they won't rebound from losing a player like Maimaron. His effectiveness as a runner and passer made it possible for guys like Stola and Nicholas to have the success they did. With defenses so focused on him, they had to give up opportunities to the other guys. Now that the focus is shifted I foresee that offense struggling to move the ball. The D may very well have success, but I think it's unreasonable to expect them to repeat when there's so much returning talent across the league.
I know Williams suffered some huge losses and there is a big question mark at QB in particular, but man, it really does seem like folks are sleeping a bit on a team that went 9-0 and whose defense completely shut down both Wesleyan and Trinity late in the season.  The Eph D could be even better next year -- the entire two deep on the defensive line (which relied last year on five guys who had never played a college snap before) is back, including DPOY candidate Ian Devine, who missed the end of the year with an injury and whose absence was really felt in the Amherst game.  So the Ephs should be much stouter up front.  The top six defensive backs are all back as well, including the starting CB who missed nearly the entire season with injury. The Ephs will have SIX seniors, all of whom have have seen a ton of snaps, in the defensive backfield.  There is some uncertainly at LB, but because of how many injuries the Ephs suffered at that position in particular last year, the Ephs have five guys who played big roles at LB back including an all-league anchor in Coleston Smith.  And that is a position where Raymond always finds guys to make an impact, even if it means a position change. 

Even though Maimaron's trickery with the ball and elusiveness really helped the running game, the Ephs should certainly be able to run the ball, with four huge offensive line starters back (one who started late in the year due to an injury) and three elite TBs, including Nicholas, who is poised for a massive year after playing hurt last year and is certainly one of the two best backs in the league.  So yeah, the passing game is a big unknown, but Williams should be just as dominant, if not more so, in the trenches as it was last year. 

To me, it looks like a three-way toss-up between Williams, Wesleyan and Trinity (if i had to give the edge to one, it would be Wesleyan, just because they have nearly everyone back and had a lot of bad injury breaks last year), with Tufts in fourth.  The Tufts offensive will be so explosive but it seems like they lose around half their key guys from a defense that wasn't good to begin with.  Amherst was so up and down last year but I'd still put them above Colby in the pre-season rankings.

Offline Charlie

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: -18
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19267 on: May 31, 2022, 09:57:40 pm »
Middlebury went 9-0 and proceeded to fall into the middle of the pack. And they brought back most of their important pieces in 21. Williams certainly had an impressive season, but they won't rebound from losing a player like Maimaron. His effectiveness as a runner and passer made it possible for guys like Stola and Nicholas to have the success they did. With defenses so focused on him, they had to give up opportunities to the other guys. Now that the focus is shifted I foresee that offense struggling to move the ball. The D may very well have success, but I think it's unreasonable to expect them to repeat when there's so much returning talent across the league.
I know Williams suffered some huge losses and there is a big question mark at QB in particular, but man, it really does seem like folks are sleeping a bit on a team that went 9-0 and whose defense completely shut down both Wesleyan and Trinity late in the season.  The Eph D could be even better next year -- the entire two deep on the defensive line (which relied last year on five guys who had never played a college snap before) is back, including DPOY candidate Ian Devine, who missed the end of the year with an injury and whose absence was really felt in the Amherst game.  So the Ephs should be much stouter up front.  The top six defensive backs are all back as well, including the starting CB who missed nearly the entire season with injury. The Ephs will have SIX seniors, all of whom have have seen a ton of snaps, in the defensive backfield.  There is some uncertainly at LB, but because of how many injuries the Ephs suffered at that position in particular last year, the Ephs have five guys who played big roles at LB back including an all-league anchor in Coleston Smith.  And that is a position where Raymond always finds guys to make an impact, even if it means a position change. 

Even though Maimaron's trickery with the ball and elusiveness really helped the running game, the Ephs should certainly be able to run the ball, with four huge offensive line starters back (one who started late in the year due to an injury) and three elite TBs, including Nicholas, who is poised for a massive year after playing hurt last year and is certainly one of the two best backs in the league.  So yeah, the passing game is a big unknown, but Williams should be just as dominant, if not more so, in the trenches as it was last year. 

To me, it looks like a three-way toss-up between Williams, Wesleyan and Trinity (if i had to give the edge to one, it would be Wesleyan, just because they have nearly everyone back and had a lot of bad injury breaks last year), with Tufts in fourth.  The Tufts offensive will be so explosive but it seems like they lose around half their key guys from a defense that wasn't good to begin with.  Amherst was so up and down last year but I'd still put them above Colby in the pre-season rankings.

I totally agree and they also lost two starters on the OL from last year. they will be strong and beat the teams they should beat but ultimately loose to the top teams. I truly think it will be between Wesleyan and Trinity and give the edge to Trinity by a good margin and possibly larger as Trinity has the best Coaching staff in NESCAC. I think something should be said that they constantly maintain Trinity maintains it Coaching staff year after year and the top teams have been dessimated with Coaching transitions. Wesleyan could have been champs this year if they held onto Coyne and Stanley and Archer on offense ultimately that will be there downfall. Why Stanley left is a mystery.

The rumors are starting to swirl that Tufts has a divided Coaching staff as well and could be subject to changes next season or a complete overhaul. I think schools with stable coaching staffs bode well for winning. This is why Trinity is constantly at the top of League historically. I think Coyne can change Bates culture but will take many years to get that done and will need some excellent recruiting classes. If he can maintain that staff as well.

Amherst is in trouble as previously stated by another person. In addition Middlebury has tightened admissions and going to hurt recruiting and geography aside that will deter them from getting back on the top of the league. Bowdoin is and always will be a bottom feeder of the league. However President is stepping down so potentially a new president may affect change there only time will tell but tend to doubt it.

Colby is the question Mark showed some promise last year at home. The question is teams fell into the trap game having to travel there and they had hard time playing away and exhibiting the same intensity agaisnt top ranked teams on away games. There also is turn over on there staffs and now one know uncertain futre of HC. ut they have added some good recruits in that program.

So should be interesting to see how this unfolds and how the 2023 recruit class starts to stack up.

Offline SpringSt7

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 747
  • Karma: 55
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19268 on: May 31, 2022, 10:25:34 pm »
Middlebury went 9-0 and proceeded to fall into the middle of the pack. And they brought back most of their important pieces in 21. Williams certainly had an impressive season, but they won't rebound from losing a player like Maimaron. His effectiveness as a runner and passer made it possible for guys like Stola and Nicholas to have the success they did. With defenses so focused on him, they had to give up opportunities to the other guys. Now that the focus is shifted I foresee that offense struggling to move the ball. The D may very well have success, but I think it's unreasonable to expect them to repeat when there's so much returning talent across the league.

2021 Williams was #1 in scoring offense and scoring defense while in 2019 Middlebury was 2nd in offense and 4th in defense. Williams won by 23.5 points per game and Middlebury won by 10.8. Not the be all and end all but two different horses statistically. If they have above average QB play they will contend - the rest of their talent is plenty good and they have a different level of depth that they haven't had in a long long time.

PS - I love Maimaron but Stola wore the pants between the two of them.

Offline Charlie

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: -18
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19269 on: June 01, 2022, 08:49:57 am »
Middlebury went 9-0 and proceeded to fall into the middle of the pack. And they brought back most of their important pieces in 21. Williams certainly had an impressive season, but they won't rebound from losing a player like Maimaron. His effectiveness as a runner and passer made it possible for guys like Stola and Nicholas to have the success they did. With defenses so focused on him, they had to give up opportunities to the other guys. Now that the focus is shifted I foresee that offense struggling to move the ball. The D may very well have success, but I think it's unreasonable to expect them to repeat when there's so much returning talent across the league.


You have to understand one thing  , loosing two Coaches for Williams is huge. Coach Blu was integral in the offensive scheme more than people realize. Loosing Coach Hunt is equally as big he was brought in from Colgate recruited that back field and literally two of the RB on that team should be playing at higher level. So I really do not think you realize the magnitude of loosing these two exceptional Coaches. In addition Coach Coyne & Stanley are huge losses for Wesleyan.

Coach Coyne defense if you watch that William game from last year really shut down Williams offense through about 2 quarters but their anemic offense could do nothing and finally Williams just dominated. They did the same thing against Trinity holding Trinity to 14 points. Coaching does make a difference and more importantly kids buying into the coaches. I really think you will see these as being tough shoes to fill.

2021 Williams was #1 in scoring offense and scoring defense while in 2019 Middlebury was 2nd in offense and 4th in defense. Williams won by 23.5 points per game and Middlebury won by 10.8. Not the be all and end all but two different horses statistically. If they have above average QB play they will contend - the rest of their talent is plenty good and they have a different level of depth that they haven't had in a long long time.

PS - I love Maimaron but Stola wore the pants between the two of them.



You have to understand one thing  , loosing two Coaches for Williams is huge. Coach Blu was integral in the offensive scheme more than people realize. Loosing Coach Hunt is equally as big he was brought in from Colgate recruited that back field and literally two of the RB on that team should be playing at higher level. So I really do not think you realize the magnitude of loosing these two exceptional Coaches. In addition Coach Coyne & Stanley are huge losses for Wesleyan.

Coach Coyne defense if you watch that William game from last year really shut down Williams offense through about 2 quarters but their anemic offense could do nothing and finally Williams just dominated. They did the same thing against Trinity holding Trinity to 14 points. Coaching does make a difference and more importantly kids buying into the coaches. I really think you will see these as being tough shoes to fill.

Offline nescac1

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5792
  • Karma: 745
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19270 on: June 01, 2022, 10:46:17 am »
I do not think Dan Hunt could have recruited the Ephs' top TB, Joel Nicholas, who was in his third year in the program in what was, I believe, Hunt's first.  I agree that Nichols and Fischetti both have talent that is rare to see in NESCAC and with both of those guys back (and Nicholas hopefully healthier), that is one of the reasons that I'm high on the Ephs.  I'm not so worried about the offensive line losses because, while Williams did lose two elite offensive linemen, both of those guys missed big chunks of the season with injuries, giving other guys the opportunity to gain experience (and generally hold up pretty well).  Williams does bring back four of the linemen who started vs. Amherst (one of them a talented athlete who had switched over from the DL but figures to get a lot bigger and better) plus two more linemen who started at least one game last year.  While there is only one dominant anchor on the O-line, the unit is deeper, with more experienced guys in the two-deep, than it has ever been in the Raymond era.  And again, offense is clearly the weaker unit heading into the season, the defensive is absolutely stacked. 

I agree with SpringSt7 that the Middlebury comparison is a not really an apt one.  EVERYTHING had to go right for Midd to go 9-0.  No one really thought they were the most talented overall team in the league that year.  Six of Midd's wins came in one-possession games, including three wins by a combined eight points, they won by a combination of a few good breaks and tremendous clutch plays, but they were not a dominant team by any stretch.  Williams, on the other hand, won seven games by blow-out margins (all of those games were essentially over before the fourth quarter) and only the Tufts game could be considered a fortunate win.  Midd did actually lose some really key players from its undefeated team before 2021, including nearly all their offensive weapons.  Their star tailback unexpectedly leaving the team during pre-season was a massive blow.  There was no one remotely as good as him ready to step in.  They also lost four of their top five receivers (including their top two guys and a star TE) from a core that had been previously very hard to match up with.  So there was really no one guy that Jernigan could really rely on as a go-to guy to start the year.  With Williams, at least you know there are going to be three tremendous tailbacks who can carry the load while the new QB gets up to speed.

All that being said, it's a QB game and so much depends on how the new QB will fare, so there is certainly a high degree of uncertainty around Williams until we see a few games.  But in terms of overall talent returning at every OTHER position, Williams is certainly right there with Trinity and Wesleyan.  Honestly, I think anything from 5-4 to 9-0 is realistic to expect from Williams, with 7-2 being the most likely expected outcome.  I do NOT see a total collapse like Midd experienced, however. 

Offline Charlie

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: -18
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19271 on: June 01, 2022, 11:16:36 am »
I do not think Dan Hunt could have recruited the Ephs' top TB, Joel Nicholas, who was in his third year in the program in what was, I believe, Hunt's first.  I agree that Nichols and Fischetti both have talent that is rare to see in NESCAC and with both of those guys back (and Nicholas hopefully healthier), that is one of the reasons that I'm high on the Ephs.  I'm not so worried about the offensive line losses because, while Williams did lose two elite offensive linemen, both of those guys missed big chunks of the season with injuries, giving other guys the opportunity to gain experience (and generally hold up pretty well).  Williams does bring back four of the linemen who started vs. Amherst (one of them a talented athlete who had switched over from the DL but figures to get a lot bigger and better) plus two more linemen who started at least one game last year.  While there is only one dominant anchor on the O-line, the unit is deeper, with more experienced guys in the two-deep, than it has ever been in the Raymond era.  And again, offense is clearly the weaker unit heading into the season, the defensive is absolutely stacked. 

I agree with SpringSt7 that the Middlebury comparison is a not really an apt one.  EVERYTHING had to go right for Midd to go 9-0.  No one really thought they were the most talented overall team in the league that year.  Six of Midd's wins came in one-possession games, including three wins by a combined eight points, they won by a combination of a few good breaks and tremendous clutch plays, but they were not a dominant team by any stretch.  Williams, on the other hand, won seven games by blow-out margins (all of those games were essentially over before the fourth quarter) and only the Tufts game could be considered a fortunate win.  Midd did actually lose some really key players from its undefeated team before 2021, including nearly all their offensive weapons.  Their star tailback unexpectedly leaving the team during pre-season was a massive blow.  There was no one remotely as good as him ready to step in.  They also lost four of their top five receivers (including their top two guys and a star TE) from a core that had been previously very hard to match up with.  So there was really no one guy that Jernigan could really rely on as a go-to guy to start the year.  With Williams, at least you know there are going to be three tremendous tailbacks who can carry the load while the new QB gets up to speed.

All that being said, it's a QB game and so much depends on how the new QB will fare, so there is certainly a high degree of uncertainty around Williams until we see a few games.  But in terms of overall talent returning at every OTHER position, Williams is certainly right there with Trinity and Wesleyan.  Honestly, I think anything from 5-4 to 9-0 is realistic to expect from Williams, with 7-2 being the most likely expected outcome.  I do NOT see a total collapse like Midd experienced, however.

I totally agree I dont think there will be a collapse. Williams defense will be strong really like the Safety on defense hits hard. Again I dont think defense will be an issue. Offense is there key problem.

One question I do have Williams played Tufts last year and had 3.5 hour bus ride. Team left at 6:45 am and clearly it was evident that they were just not up to the start of that game played lethargic but gutted out win. Trinity did the same against Williams last year traveling all that away on game day to Willims. Now I am not saying at all that was difference in the game Williams was superior team that day. But Why in the world if you are a contending team for NESCAC title every year would you not have your teams stay the night before. Clearly all the Maine teams have a home field advantage in this including Hamilton. If I was one of the big three every away game the team should be here day before. Please do not tell me it is a cost thing with tuition being +/- 80 K.

Offline CC_Camels

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19272 on: June 01, 2022, 04:08:14 pm »
Were the lack of hotel stays a COVID issue last season? I know prep schools and some colleges had different rules about out of state travel and busses due to COVID, but I thought a number of the NESCAC football trips usually involve an overnight stay, especially for schools traveling to Maine and Hamilton...

Offline amh63

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5316
  • Karma: 3
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19273 on: June 01, 2022, 07:27:19 pm »
An interesting event happened recently….besides graduation events.  At Amherst, the class of ‘22 has had it’s graduation…while the class of ‘20 “graduation” approaches where Williams’ prez will be honored.  It seems that Amherst has announced the selection of it’s NEW prez.  He is a classmate of my oldest son.   Presently, the new Prez is head of Emory Un. College of Liberal Arts…a school of 5000 plus students, etc, etc.  He arrives in the Fall with wife and two kids….wife is also an Amherst grad.   Back to football speculation ;D.

Offline firstdown

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Karma: 55
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19274 on: June 01, 2022, 10:10:53 pm »
Emory is not a college with football, but has strong teams with other sports.
Atlanta sits at the crossroads of the SEC and the ACC.  Amherst's new President has lived in the South
Where the 3 great religions are Baptist, Methodist and football.