Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3882474 times)

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18870 on: November 30, 2021, 01:22:22 pm »
 A dominant Field Hockey or Volleyball program does little in the way of Alumni interest and support for Athletics. It's all about a handful of sports.

Football, Basketball, Lacrosse, Hockey and maybe Soccer and Baseball to a lesser extent.

Administrations like Bowdoin delude themselves into the perception that successes in the peripheral sports are a more meaningful driver in the overall picture.

At Bowdoin Hockey was king back in the day.....significantly. If they are tacitly downgrading the program that's despicable.

It's certainly nice to have winning programs in all the peripheral sports but at the end of the day it doesn't move the needle very much.

An open question to Williams people:

Would you rather win the Sears Trophy OR go 9-0 in football, dominating Amherst in The Game and then beat the Mammoths twice and go to the NCAA's in Basketball ?

Offline SpringSt7

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18871 on: November 30, 2021, 01:38:19 pm »
Answer from a Williams person: We might do both this year!!  ;)  ;)

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18872 on: November 30, 2021, 04:51:30 pm »
LOL I knew we would get that answer.

MIGHT do both.....

One or the other- what would be your answer?

Offline Nescacman

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18873 on: November 30, 2021, 05:41:02 pm »
Raymond's seat is still pretty warm after he passed on 4th and 1 against Tufts. Word on the street is that the blowout wins against Trinity and Wesleyan and undefeated league championship might have bought him another year.

We would say Raymond probably needs to go based on that decision plus the fact that he only beat the Lord Jeffs by a mere 5 points thus not even coming close to covering the spread…

Offline Nescacman

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18874 on: November 30, 2021, 05:58:57 pm »
Serious question, is Murray on the bubble? Not sure when his contract is up (by our count, he just finished his 8th year in Clinton counting 2020)…since most NESCAC HCOF contracts are 3 years, that would mean he is probably entering the last year of his third contract in 2022…the guy had tremendous success at Alfred but being objective, hasn’t really gotten it done at Hamilton…we recognize that the Empire 8 is a different animal compared to the NESCAC but he hasn’t been able to move the Conts even close to the top tier of the league (his best year was 2019 when he was 4-5), despite having some pretty good players over the years (Kenny Gray, Joe Schmidt, et al)…he’s gone 17-43 since 2014…we would say that barring HCOF Cos retiring (again) and something wacky happening at either Bowdoin or Tufts, the next coaching change (UBates excluded) in the league will be with our representative from the great State of New York…

Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18875 on: November 30, 2021, 06:29:23 pm »
Raymond's seat is still pretty warm after he passed on 4th and 1 against Tufts. Word on the street is that the blowout wins against Trinity and Wesleyan and undefeated league championship might have bought him another year.

We would say Raymond probably needs to go based on that decision plus the fact that he only beat the Lord Jeffs by a mere 5 points thus not even coming close to covering the spread…


Serious question has anyone heard when and if NESCAC will be requiring all football teams to go back to the original roster limits which I believe was 75 or 80. If they do this How do the schools handle this when rosters are bulging near the 100 player clip and what impact will this have on future recruitment.

Offline quicksilver

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18876 on: November 30, 2021, 07:54:10 pm »
Umm, maybe you are being a bit harsh on Bowdoin sports?  Yeah, football continues to lose games as it has for, basically, decades now, so hard to blame the current President for that, and now there finally seems to be a legit path to being better, with some nice young talent on the roster.  Bowdoin football could easily win 2-3, maybe even 4, games next year, that would shock no one.  That would be good progress. 

The rest of the fall sports, league records:

Volleyball, 9-1
Field hockey, 7-3
Men's soccer, 4-4-2
women's soccer, 3-6-1

The current hostility toward sports at Bowdoin is aimed primarily at men's sports. As you noted football may be on the way up but men's hockey has been the premier sport at Bowdoin for decades and has been relegated to third-tier status during the Rose years. The long-time coach (Terry Meagher) retired in 2016 -- his teams were almost always good (almost always finished high in the NESCAC standings) as was his record (.669 over something like 32 years). Meagher's teams (as well as the Sid Watson teams that preceded his tenure) drew big crowds and provided a social/community focus during those winter months. The current coach (a long-time assistant selected after what did not seem like a legit search) has compiled a .358 record over (2016 to the present). In three of the four seasons that have been completed, Bowdoin did not qualify for the NESCAC play-offs, a feat without precedent. In the fourth season (2019-20) Bowdoin finally qualified for the play-offs with a .500 record but was quickly eliminated in the first round.

Men's basketball has never been as starry as hockey but has been on the decline in recent years (we will see whether the new coach can re-invigorate the program). Men's lacrosse has been medicore although a coaching change was recently made. And we all know about the disgraceful record of the football team over many years.  There is room for hope wrt these three men's teams but it is just that -- hope. And I do not see any reason for hope for the hockey team --- the recruiting and the coaching are laughably bad and, given history, can only be the product of a conscious decision by the current Bowdoin admin. Clayton Rose has been the Bowdoin president since 2015 -- there has been a remarkable and consistent decline in men's sports during his tenure . .

Offline SpringSt7

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18877 on: November 30, 2021, 09:43:30 pm »
LOL I knew we would get that answer.

MIGHT do both.....

One or the other- what would be your answer?

I would take the latter. The Sears Cup is great but is carried every year by Williams tennis, cross country, track and field, and then a sprinkling of good team sports---women's soccer, men's basketball, etc. But Football and Basketball are still the most important and obviously the ones I want as a fan.

With that being said, I do still see nescac1's point in that you can't necesarrily criticize the entire administration if they are still having a good amount of success in other sports in equally, if not more, competitive versions of the NESCAC.

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18878 on: November 30, 2021, 09:49:09 pm »
Quicksilver-

Ive been a Bates guy since 1974. I've watched almost every move made in major sports at Bates, Bowdoin and Colby starting at that time. What I didn't know about prior years I researched vigorously. I haven't missed much.

We had no hockey team at Bates and the team at Colby wasn't very good. We would drive 25 minutes from Lewiston down east to Bowdoin to watch that great hockey program. The  games and the atmosphere were electric in that arena. As Bates guys we typically rooted against them but at the end of it all I think we ironically rooted for those b******s. Watched them play UNH who had 3 future NHL guys and a number of other great teams. It was Bowdoin's shining hour.

Can't imagine Bowdoin not perpetuating the great thing they had with that hockey program. It was the only Bowdoin mens sport I can remember which was on the vaunted standard of excellence which Bowdoin so flaunts academically.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 09:00:51 am by lumbercat »

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18879 on: December 01, 2021, 11:58:11 am »
Where else could you see Ogie Oglethorpe play in person before he became famous? Ned Dowd starred at Bowdoin before he and his sister, Nancy created Slap Shot based on Ned's subsequent career in minor league hockey. Ned appropriately became Ogie.

Offline quicksilver

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18880 on: December 01, 2021, 01:33:46 pm »
Well stated, Lumbercat, regarding Bowdoin's amazing hockey history. Which is to underscore the current horror that is going on at Bowdoin regarding the hockey program. And so true on the hypocrisy of the Bowdoin "standard of excellence," which applies only on a very selective basis.

Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18881 on: December 01, 2021, 02:16:45 pm »
Where else could you see Ogie Oglethorpe play in person before he became famous? Ned Dowd starred at Bowdoin before he and his sister, Nancy created Slap Shot based on Ned's subsequent career in minor league hockey. Ned appropriately became Ogie.

Ogie Oglethorpe that is classic. Great movie loved the Hanson Brothers

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18882 on: December 03, 2021, 01:48:46 pm »
Quicksilver-

Ive been a Bates guy since 1974. I've watched almost every move made in major sports at Bates, Bowdoin and Colby starting at that time. What I didn't know about prior years I researched vigorously. I haven't missed much.

We had no hockey team at Bates and the team at Colby wasn't very good. We would drive 25 minutes from Lewiston down east to Bowdoin to watch that great hockey program. The  games and the atmosphere were electric in that arena. As Bates guys we typically rooted against them but at the end of it all I think we ironically rooted for those b******s. Watched them play UNH who had 3 future NHL guys and a number of other great teams. It was Bowdoin's shining hour.

Can't imagine Bowdoin not perpetuating the great thing they had with that hockey program. It was the only Bowdoin mens sport I can remember which was on the vaunted standard of excellence which Bowdoin so flaunts academically.
Very well said,Lumber, you captured this golden age of Bowdoin sports beautifully. The hockey program received total support from every segment of the college community. Students would sneak on campus to attend holiday tournaments, stowing away in the dorms. Electric times!

Offline Nescacman

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18883 on: December 09, 2021, 04:27:41 pm »
Raymond's seat is still pretty warm after he passed on 4th and 1 against Tufts. Word on the street is that the blowout wins against Trinity and Wesleyan and undefeated league championship might have bought him another year.

We would say Raymond probably needs to go based on that decision plus the fact that he only beat the Lord Jeffs by a mere 5 points thus not even coming close to covering the spread…



Serious question has anyone heard when and if NESCAC will be requiring all football teams to go back to the original roster limits which I believe was 75 or 80. If they do this How do the schools handle this when rosters are bulging near the 100 player clip and what impact will this have on future recruitment.

Good question…we can tell you that the NESCAC coaches are recruiting right now assuming no roster limit for 2022….who knows when and if that ends….the big question is will NESCAC football have Spring practice like every other D3 program in the country…

Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18884 on: December 09, 2021, 09:50:43 pm »
Do the NESCAC schools invite incoming freshman rfecruits to any of the the spring practices ?