Author Topic: FB: Empire 8  (Read 3311332 times)

Offline Jonny "Utes" Utah

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50535 on: April 11, 2017, 08:59:54 am »
New York State has just passed their new budget, which includes the 3 year phase in of free tuition for all New State residents who attend any SUNY school if your family income does not exceed $125, 000. That's quite a big leeway. IN Western NY alone about 75 % of families would meet that requiremenet for the free tuition. So it is a perk not just for low income people, but for the middle class as well. This opens the door for free tuition at SUNY schools for many potential student athletes. There are a few caveats of course, must take 30 credits per year, That's a bit steep for some athetes who a lot of times just stick to 12 credits per semester, not 15. Also, you have to stay in NY post grad as many years as you "took" the free tuition.
And to be clear...it is free tuition, not room and board or any other costs such as books. But still this quite a nice addition for SUNY schools in terms of recruiting (at least against the private schools).
At Brockport tuition for a year is about $6,500. So it comes out to about a scholarship of that amount. We'll have to see if this portends to any real recruiting adavantage or not.

Also, the money only comes after taking into account the other grants a student gets, which they still have to pay back. Ultimately, I don't think it matters that much. The cost of attendance at Ithaca last year was $58,280. Brockport was $20,346. Multiply that by four, and you get:

Ithaca: $233,120
Brockport: $81,384

Look, I'm not naive or arrogant enough to handwave away that knocking off another $28,000 from the Brockport bill is going to impact some athletes. But I feel this gap is already so wide. There's diminishing returns to this. Especially when you factor in that, yeah, you'll be saving money upfront, but your employment prospects will be incredibly limited for a few years, so you might wind up just losing that money in lower wages and a higher cost of living because you're in New York. My wife is from Pennsylvania, and it blows her mind how expensive it is to live up here comparatively.

It is also only tuition, not room and board I believe.

Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50536 on: April 11, 2017, 09:50:18 am »
The numbers are bad, but they aren't quite that bad. You can use collegecalc.org to figure out the average net price that students pay based on various income levels. For a family earning 75K to 110K per year, Brockport is $18,361 in state. Ithaca is $33,703. So yeah, there is still a huge difference, but it's not the difference we point out based on pure sticker prices, which almost no one pays.

I point this out with W&L all the time. The freaking sticker is $61,235 while, for a family making $110K a year plus, the average net is "only" a whopping $38K, while in the $75 to $110K it is "only" $17,605.

The sticker price is a stupid number that colleges use to make themselves seem more prestigious and to take the occasional millionaire kid who is borderline to get in the door with the biggest number possible. All that being said, it's still stupidly expensive.

Offline Bombers798891

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50537 on: April 11, 2017, 11:39:59 am »
The numbers are bad, but they aren't quite that bad. You can use collegecalc.org to figure out the average net price that students pay based on various income levels. For a family earning 75K to 110K per year, Brockport is $18,361 in state. Ithaca is $33,703. So yeah, there is still a huge difference, but it's not the difference we point out based on pure sticker prices, which almost no one pays.


Right, but you still have to pay back that money you save via loans or grants.

Offline jknezek

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50538 on: April 11, 2017, 12:00:18 pm »
The numbers are bad, but they aren't quite that bad. You can use collegecalc.org to figure out the average net price that students pay based on various income levels. For a family earning 75K to 110K per year, Brockport is $18,361 in state. Ithaca is $33,703. So yeah, there is still a huge difference, but it's not the difference we point out based on pure sticker prices, which almost no one pays.


Right, but you still have to pay back that money you save via loans or grants.

The Collegecalc number is the pre-loan number. That is the average net out of pocket annual cost after scholarships and grants by income category, so it is the money that does not need to be repaid. How you pay the net number, either through out of pocket savings or loans, is up to you. One reason I like Collegecalc is because they are trying to do apples to apples in real life, which is invaluable compared to the stupid sticker prices. While it is a simple average, and no one would know their actual until the full aid packages come out in April/May per student, it is much more helpful than pretty much anything else I've found.

Offline D3viewer

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50539 on: April 12, 2017, 05:37:55 pm »
Looks like D3 is eliminating full pad 2 a day practices effective immediately. Up till now you could have them, but they could only be every other day. Now none at all. You can however have a "walk though session" as a second practice.
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-management-council-eliminates-football-two-days?sf70010554=1

Pat's on top of it and has the info on the home page. Checked after I posted.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 05:40:02 pm by D3viewer »

Offline Saxon73

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50540 on: May 04, 2017, 05:18:46 am »
Looks like Buffalo State is leaving the Empire 8 (football only) for the Liberty League (football only) in 2018? The move will result in both conferences having seven teams thus each would retain the NCAA Championships AQ.

Interesting!

Hmmm...  I have always been concerned with Buff ST - kinda sorta happy to hear this.
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Offline AUPepBand

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50541 on: May 18, 2017, 08:58:17 am »
Looks like Buffalo State is leaving the Empire 8 (football only) for the Liberty League (football only) in 2018? The move will result in both conferences having seven teams thus each would retain the NCAA Championships AQ.

Interesting!

Hmmm...  I have always been concerned with Buff ST - kinda sorta happy to hear this.

On the contrary, the Saxons have had their number ever since the Bengals, in a shot heard around the nation, upset three-time defending national champ Wisconsin-Whitewater in 2012. That 7-6 win snapped the Warhawks' 46-game win streak and vaulted the Bengals into the limelight. The next week, Chuck Beckwith came off the bench and, out of the wildcat, ripped off successive TD runs of 31, 52 and 80 yards, respectively, as AU prevailed, 40-17.

AU has never lost to Buffalo State since the Bengals entered the Empire 8 in 2012.
On Saxon Warriors! On to Victory!
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Offline Bombers798891

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50542 on: May 18, 2017, 12:11:02 pm »
Looks like Buffalo State is leaving the Empire 8 (football only) for the Liberty League (football only) in 2018? The move will result in both conferences having seven teams thus each would retain the NCAA Championships AQ.

Interesting!

Hmmm...  I have always been concerned with Buff ST - kinda sorta happy to hear this.

On the contrary, the Saxons have had their number ever since the Bengals, in a shot heard around the nation, upset three-time defending national champ Wisconsin-Whitewater in 2012. That 7-6 win snapped the Warhawks' 46-game win streak and vaulted the Bengals into the limelight. The next week, Chuck Beckwith came off the bench and, out of the wildcat, ripped off successive TD runs of 31, 52 and 80 yards, respectively, as AU prevailed, 40-17.

AU has never lost to Buffalo State since the Bengals entered the Empire 8 in 2012.

You don't have to lose to a team to be concerned by them

Offline AUPepBand

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50543 on: May 18, 2017, 11:50:19 pm »
Looks like Buffalo State is leaving the Empire 8 (football only) for the Liberty League (football only) in 2018? The move will result in both conferences having seven teams thus each would retain the NCAA Championships AQ.

Interesting!

Hmmm...  I have always been concerned with Buff ST - kinda sorta happy to hear this.

On the contrary, the Saxons have had their number ever since the Bengals, in a shot heard around the nation, upset three-time defending national champ Wisconsin-Whitewater in 2012. That 7-6 win snapped the Warhawks' 46-game win streak and vaulted the Bengals into the limelight. The next week, Chuck Beckwith came off the bench and, out of the wildcat, ripped off successive TD runs of 31, 52 and 80 yards, respectively, as AU prevailed, 40-17.

AU has never lost to Buffalo State since the Bengals entered the Empire 8 in 2012.

You don't have to lose to a team to be concerned by them

 True dat. We've had some barn-burners with da Bengals.

On another note, Pep has been invited to a wedding on June 11 in Central NY. Seems a peppy four-year starting tuba player and a trumpet/horn player that he first met while recruiting for AU Pep Band, are tying the knot. Both served as presidents of the band. Pep will be there for the celebration. Get the fight song ready!!

On Saxon Warriors!!
On Saxon Warriors! On to Victory!
...Fight, fight for Alfred, A-L-F, R-E-D!

Offline Bengalsrule

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50544 on: May 19, 2017, 01:27:33 am »
Looks like Buffalo State is leaving the Empire 8 (football only) for the Liberty League (football only) in 2018? The move will result in both conferences having seven teams thus each would retain the NCAA Championships AQ.

Interesting!

Hmmm...  I have always been concerned with Buff ST - kinda sorta happy to hear this.

On the contrary, the Saxons have had their number ever since the Bengals, in a shot heard around the nation, upset three-time defending national champ Wisconsin-Whitewater in 2012. That 7-6 win snapped the Warhawks' 46-game win streak and vaulted the Bengals into the limelight. The next week, Chuck Beckwith came off the bench and, out of the wildcat, ripped off successive TD runs of 31, 52 and 80 yards, respectively, as AU prevailed, 40-17.

AU has never lost to Buffalo State since the Bengals entered the Empire 8 in 2012.

You don't have to lose to a team to be concerned by them

Well call me "concerned". First I've heard about this ( although I haven't been on Bengals grounds in weeks).  Looks like I may have to make a Sept 30th ride to see my Bengals try and break their losing streak vs AUPeps boys! ;)

Offline D3viewer

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50545 on: May 19, 2017, 06:39:50 pm »
Semi interesting recruiting note from Brockport.

They have listed a Tyree Brown from South Park HS in Buffalo as 2017 recruit. QB turned WR. Turns out he was WNY Player of the Year in 2015. 2 seasons ago.
http://buffalonews.com/2015/12/05/south-park-qb-brown-is-wny-player-of-the-year/

His highlights :
https://vimeo.com/171765521

Committed to St. Lawrence a year ago
http://buffalonews.com/2016/05/11/news-football-player-year-brown-st-lawrence/

Then changed his mind to pursue D1
http://buffalonews.com/2016/07/26/news-player-year-opts-pursue-division-dream-instead-heading-st-lawrence/

And now turns up at Brockport as one of their incoming recruits. Brockport plays SLU this season. Will be interesting to see if Tyree makes any type of impact. Looks like Brockport has recruited a few smaller QBs and are converting them to WR. They have the returning ECAC Rookie of the Year at QB and must be looking for some weapons for him. They lost most of their impact skill guys.

Offline HansenRatings

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50546 on: June 15, 2017, 09:44:03 am »
Decided I'm going to spam every conference board with my preseason (non-returning-starter-adjusted) projections.

Team   Rating   Overall   Conference
Alfred      0.8878   7.4-2.6   5.0-2.0
Brockport   0.8518   6.2-3.8   4.6-2.4
SJFU      0.8518   6.1-3.9   4.7-2.3
Cortland   0.8193   6.1-3.9   4.3-2.7
Utica      0.7341   5.2-4.8   3.3-3.7
Buff State   0.7265   4.9-5.1   3.2-3.8
Hartwick   0.4887   3.3-6.7   1.6-5.4
Morrisville   0.4718   3.8-6.2   1.4-5.6

Projecting the conference favorite to lose two conference games is a good way to quantify what we already know: nobody knows whose going to win the E8 any given year. Alfred is the 35th ranked team in the country (these projections are a 4-year regression, so it's not entirely based on last season's finish), and Buff State is the 70th ranked team in the country. So basically, don't count anyone out until Halloween-ish.
Follow me on Twitter. I post fun graphs sometimes. @LogHanRatings

Online fisheralum91

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50547 on: June 15, 2017, 03:15:19 pm »
I would LOVE to know the basis for these projections.
What does newbie v returner have anything to do with this?


Offline HansenRatings

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50548 on: June 15, 2017, 03:28:02 pm »
I've written about it on my blog a bit before. Right now, without having Kickoff '17 to get the number of returning starters for each team, it's based on a 4-year weighted regression of each team's end-of-season ratings in my system. It works out to about 73% from last season, 12% from 2 years ago, 6% three years ago, and 9% four years ago. I'm not entirely sure why year N-4 is more strongly correlated that year N-3, but I suspect that it's mostly due to recruiting (the current season's seniors were recruited after year N-4, so if that was a good season, it probably works out to a good recruiting class, too).

As for returning starters, each returning starter is worth 1.5 points per game. An average team will have 7.5 starters returning on either offense or defense, so if you have 9 returning starters on offense, your offensive rating improves by (9-7.5)*1.5=2.25 points per game.
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Online fisheralum91

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50549 on: June 15, 2017, 03:41:08 pm »
So according to your numbers the top three are essentially same and the rest of the league minus moovile and wick have a shot at the title?


Welcome to the E8 ;) ;D