NESCAC

Started by LaPaz, September 11, 2011, 05:54:52 PM

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blooter442

Quote from: FourMoreYears on March 09, 2018, 09:46:52 AM
If I may offer a few thoughts ... as a way of background I've had three sons play college sports ... two of which were at NESCAC schools... one of which was a soccer player.

Love that you're gathering as much information as possible so that your son can make the best decision possible. 

If I could only give one piece of advice to any kid looking to play a D-3 sport, it would be this: choose your school as though you are going to blow your knee out the first week of practice and never play that sport again.  That might sound fatalistic, and I don't mean it that way at all.  But soccer (in this case) is only PART of what your son will experience on the campus of these fine schools that are being mentioned in this thread.  Coaches leave, injuries happen, teammates suck, interests can shift from the sport, academics might take priority.  It happens.  But if your son has chosen the right SCHOOL rather than the right soccer PROGRAM, he chances of success over 4 years and his lifetime are far greater.

Wishing you nothing but success ... it's an exciting time in his life and in yours ...

+K

midwest

Yes, that was the advice my son was given -- assume a career ending injury the first day of freshman pre-season, is that the college where you want to be?

mom1234

Thank you all! Sorry I have no technical skills. Yes, the possibility of blowing his knee out is exactly what has led us to this place. If it were just about soccer level, he'd be looking at D1s and D2s. But he's a small school-- and a liberal arts-- kind of guy. He's passionate about soccer, but doesn't want some jerky coach dictating his college experience and finding out he hates the school anyway. He also wants something drivable to family near Boston. Hope my strategy is correct: help him choose schools that fit him in other ways besides soccer but where a. I know he'd be a "catch" soccer wise so he's more likely to get squeezed in, and b. there is flexibility on testing. c. coach is a good guy

After hearing you all, I think we're adding Brandeis and Trinity to the list of schools to at least look at. OWU... not drivable to Boston. Maybe Vassar, but that might be tough.

BTW just heard Flaherty got threatened to get booted if he doesn't shape things up.





truenorth

The recent posts on the topic of student athletes at leading liberal arts colleges are spot on.  Being a varsity athlete at a NESCAC or other top notch liberal arts school can be a terrific experience...physical exertion, bonding with teammates, commitment to individual and team goals, competing at a high level, being forced to balance your school life.  But it's the overall college experience, and frankly the alumni network, that will have the lasting impact for decades after college is over.

I had one son who played soccer for an Ivy and another who played for a NESCAC.  During his four years, the Ivy son got to know relatively few people outside of the soccer team and other athletic teams.  There simply wasn't time to explore all of the dimensions and subcultures the school had to offer.  My NESCAC son had a far more balanced college experience.

Both of my sons were very fortunate to attend their respective schools, but everything being equal, I think it's hard to beat the overall experience at a small liberal arts school.

In fact, I was skiing with a friend of mine whose son played on the back line with my son for a NESCAC school that went to the D3 final four several years ago.  He made the point that his son was greatly influenced by the intellectual caliber and the dedication to academics that a lot of the other players on the team had.  I couldn't agree more.  Many teenage boys tend to "float" to the level of their peer group.  Better to float where the bar is higher than lower...

mom1234, without knowing him, my wish for your son would be that he is able to leverage his soccer talent to get into a school that might be a little bit of an academic stretch if admission were based only on GPA and test scores.  He's likely to have a great experience.

blooter442

Quote from: mom1234 on March 10, 2018, 10:31:27 AM
BTW just heard Flaherty got threatened to get booted if he doesn't shape things up.

Pretty interesting that — if it happens at all — it would be after their first postseason appearance in a long time. Of course, the decision would probably have more to do with long term results, but still an intriguing prospect nonetheless.

Mr.Right

Quote from: blooter442 on March 11, 2018, 07:51:54 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on March 10, 2018, 10:31:27 AM
BTW just heard Flaherty got threatened to get booted if he doesn't shape things up.

Pretty interesting that — if it happens at all — it would be after their first postseason appearance in a long time. Of course, the decision would probably have more to do with long term results, but still an intriguing prospect nonetheless.

Where did this nugget come from? If true it is completely understandable from my position but I doubt it is just "results". Usually you will have multiple players giving poor reviews at the end of the year coupled with maybe other stuff like parents complaining, off field issues, etc. I will say results are a major factor but I would guess it is coupled with some other form of complaints. That is where I draw the line though. While I am no fan of Flaherty as a Coach I do not believe players and/or especially parents should have a say in the matter. These end of year player reviews started about 10-15 years ago at most schools and since then we have seen MUCH more turnover in the coaching ranks in Nescac and all of D3. While I believe the players input is important I do not believe it should have the weight that it can have at some schools. Obviously, if there is a reoccurring pattern that keeps popping up from different players from different years than YES that should be addressed and for that I agree with the feedback that these provide BUT to often in some programs these reviews play a bigger role than they should. Players with grudges is usually the biggest problem with these things but most AD's understand this and usually only address something if it is reoccurring. Best example of this was Ferrigno at Tufts getting fired. He lasted probably 5 years to long but finally I am sure he was getting horrific reviews by multiple players thru multiple years. In this case the firing was warranted and the players played a key and important role to get the administration moving. I did hear that Ferrigno also had issues with peers in the Athletic Department and often refused or complained about having other duties besides Soccer. I got off track but while the players should have "some" input IMO the parents should have NONE. These coaches have enough headaches to deal with on a daily basis then overbearing parents getting involved. I will say if Player A and Player B are equal in ability, academics and talent but Player B has a parent that looks like could be a total pain in the ass for the next 4 years the coach will go with Player A. It is even possible that if Player A is slightly and only slightly less talented than Player B ability wise the coach will still go with Player A because of the overbearing parent for Player B. Exceptions are made for extremely talented players that can help turn a program around or take it to the next level because then the headache of the parent will be "worth" it. I will say all coaches are different and some have more tolerance than others.

Once_A_Metro_Always_A_Red

Quote from: mom1234 on March 04, 2018, 12:09:50 PM
So is this the "bottom half" from an academic standpoint?: Conn College, Trinity, Bates, Hamilton, Colby or Wesleyan?
All these schools talk nowadays about their career services and alumni networking opportunities. Anyone think one of the above (or one of the Centennial ones I mentioned) stands out in that respect putting that talk into action?
Back to coaching styles/personalities, would love to hear from Mr. Right or anyone else. Also would like to know if any particular coach has undesirable practices such as favoring older players vs. better players, keeping too big of a roster, screaming during games, or anything else I haven't thought of.
Thanks, ya'll!

jfc so disrespectful, Trinity is a safety school if you don't have what it takes to Wesleyan. Never name them in the same academic tier again

FourMoreYears

Quote from: Once_A_Metro_Always_A_Red on May 13, 2018, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on March 04, 2018, 12:09:50 PM
So is this the "bottom half" from an academic standpoint?: Conn College, Trinity, Bates, Hamilton, Colby or Wesleyan?
All these schools talk nowadays about their career services and alumni networking opportunities. Anyone think one of the above (or one of the Centennial ones I mentioned) stands out in that respect putting that talk into action?
Back to coaching styles/personalities, would love to hear from Mr. Right or anyone else. Also would like to know if any particular coach has undesirable practices such as favoring older players vs. better players, keeping too big of a roster, screaming during games, or anything else I haven't thought of.
Thanks, ya'll!

jfc so disrespectful, Trinity is a safety school if you don't have what it takes to gain acceptance to Wesleyan. Never name them in the same academic tier again.

Fixed that for you "Once a Metro Always a Red".  My guess is that most students at Trinity could construct a proper sentence when throwing out a childish insult.  Just sayin'...  ;)

Once_A_Metro_Always_A_Red

Quote from: FourMoreYears on May 14, 2018, 03:00:04 PM
Quote from: Once_A_Metro_Always_A_Red on May 13, 2018, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on March 04, 2018, 12:09:50 PM
So is this the "bottom half" from an academic standpoint?: Conn College, Trinity, Bates, Hamilton, Colby or Wesleyan?
All these schools talk nowadays about their career services and alumni networking opportunities. Anyone think one of the above (or one of the Centennial ones I mentioned) stands out in that respect putting that talk into action?
Back to coaching styles/personalities, would love to hear from Mr. Right or anyone else. Also would like to know if any particular coach has undesirable practices such as favoring older players vs. better players, keeping too big of a roster, screaming during games, or anything else I haven't thought of.
Thanks, ya'll!

jfc so disrespectful, Trinity is a safety school if you don't have what it takes to gain acceptance to Wesleyan. Never name them in the same academic tier again.

Fixed that for you "Once a Metro Always a Red".  My guess is that most students at Trinity could construct a proper sentence when throwing out a childish insult.  Just sayin'...  ;)

Not going to lie, definitely embarrassed

dacac

Certainly an embarrassing comment - for multiple reasons

EasyGoer27

Williams schedule is out.  Coast G, Skid, Bab, RPI, Curry.....pretty decent SOS

Mr.Right

So we have only 3 Nescac schedules posted as of now. Not many changes at all.

Williams- Same 5 Non-Conference teams from 2017. Skidmore, RPI, Babson, Curry and Coast Guard. Certainly not the non conference schedule strength of their dynasty days but it is solid. If Williams brings its "A" game and focuses for 90 minutes they should go 5-0-0 or 4-0-1 at the very least. Skidmore always gives them a solid game but unless they are bringing in a solid recruiting class they could drop a bit. RPI used to give Williams headaches but the past few years Williams has dominated them even when having trouble scoring against them. Unless RPI finds some attacking mojo against solid competition in 2018 I do not see that changing. Coast Guard is at Home so that will be a total unknown for Coast Guard especially on Williams 120x80 but one thing Coast Guard does do is run its ass off they are just usually playing on turf and lack a dynamic attack. Curry should be a W. Babson is bringing in a very good class and should be tops in NEWMAC in 2018 so they will be a challenge and could easily get a result v Williams.

Hamilton--Same 5 Non-Conference teams from 2017. Oneonta, Ithaca, Utica, 2 SUNY schools. I expect good things from Hamilton in 2018 and I expect them to go 4-1-0 or 3-0-2 against those 5. They MUST beat Utica and the 2 weak SUNY schools. I was impressed with the 2 games I saw of Ithaca last year and they have a solid coach in former Midd player and Norwich Coach Kyle Dezotell. I still give Hamilton the edge in talent but if Hamilton is still inconsistent like they were in 2017 and come out in a midweek game sloppy and uninterested they will lose. The game against Oneonta has been moved from late October in 2017 to mid September in 2018. I think that favors Oneonta because they will have been out for a month already BUT I expect Hamilton to remember the trashing Oneonta gave them in 2017. This year it will be on Love Field so that will give Hamilton an edge on the grass. I fully expect Hamilton to be up for that game and will want to tune in.

Trinity---1 change from 2017 and 4 of the same Non-Conference teams. ECONN, WCONN, Endicott, Wheaton(MA) and WNEC. They dropped Rivier for WNEC. I gave up predicting Trinity under Pilger back in 2012. You just never know when they will show up. Their final game in 2017 against Amherst last year was a fantastic performance even though they lost the game they gave max effort and had plenty of chances to Win that game. If they gave that same effort in every game they would be a much better outfit. As it is, they lost a ton of talent in 2017 and will lose even more talent in 2018. Unless Trinity and Bates brings in a real solid Frosh class for 2018 every Nescac team MUST expect to get 6pts from Trinity and Bates in 2018. Will that happen? No of course not but teams getting draws against Trinity and Bates or even losses in 2018 are not only missing out on 3pts for themselves they are basically giving the other Nescac schools an extra 2-3pts in the standings. It is an absolute must to clear 6pts against them. Trinity and Bates will not be blown off the field but the talent both schools lost in 2017 will show. I will give Trinity a "B" for their schedule. They dropped their only true cupcake and now have 5 very solid teams Non-Conference. Endicott will be the best of the bunch and that is their 1st game of the season. I expect good things from Endicott in 2018 as I hear they are bringing in a decent class plus 2 solid transfers especially the GK from BC. He is a good GK and could start for most Nescac's. The other 4 games are complete toss-ups. I will only predict they will lose to Endicott so they could go 4-1-0 but I highly doubt it. I could see a 1-2-2 or 2-2-1. Trinity needs 2-3 really solid recruiting classes before they can sniff a Top 4 in Nescac or their first NCAA appearance since 2011. They had a solid outfit in 2011 with Mayernick , Buckley and El-Hachem and company.

blooter442

Quote from: Mr.Right on June 11, 2018, 12:48:44 PM
Babson is bringing in a very good class and should be tops in NEWMAC in 2018 so they will be a challenge and could easily get a result v Williams.

Right, what do we know about Babson's incoming class? I have seen the bits and bobs from the hot stove forum but there are so many names on there I haven't done much research.

If a few players in this class are ready to come in and make a difference, perhaps they could be in for a big year. I was pretty harsh on Babson last year. Truthfully they lacked any real speed or creativity, and weren't great defensively. To be fair, they did lose all but 1 games by a goal (Williams' 3-0 win the exception) so they weren't "bad" per se — although I do not think they were "good" as evidenced by their 9-9 finish.

One potential reason for their underwhelming season, particularly in their own half of the field: I believe they were playing 3 at the back most of last season, which they had tried the year before for the first few games before switching to 4 at the back against Brandeis in a game which they deservedly won on the day. Having won that game, it seemed that they kept the 4-man backline the rest of the season. This year against Brandeis, they played 3 at the back and lost thanks to two defensive blunders. I think they are pretty calamitous when they play 3 at the back — it's a tough system to pull off unless you have really good yet defensively-disciplined guys on the outside, and I didn't feel that they had any guys who were elite-level wingbacks — so I am curious to see if they revert to 4 at the back this year. Either way, I felt that Babson had papered over the cracks with a well-timed NEWMAC title run in 2015 and winning some cliffhangers in 2016 before getting knocked out by St. Joseph's, and this past year those cracks came to the surface. Either way, after last season, you can bet Babson will have a chip on its shoulder after last year and I am sure the mood in the camp will get the young guns fired up and wanting to make a difference.

Fun fact: In addition to its struggles with Brandeis the last few years — Babson is 1-4 in its last five Brandeis-Babson games — Babson has not fared much better against Williams, going 3-7 in the last 10 Williams-Babson games. The Beavers have not beaten Williams since a smash-and-grab back in 2014 in Williamstown. The rivalry was much more competitive around the turn of the decade, as it was a fixture between two of the top teams in New England — Babson's 2-1 2OT NCAA win at Cole Field in 2010 being the most notable example — and Babson managed a win back in 2011 as well, but Williams has won the fixture all but one of the years since: 2012, '13, '15, '16, and '17.

Mr.Right

Babson is bringing in a real solid class. Honestly, like u I was so unimpressed with Babson last year that some of these Frosh should contribute right away. That being said we are not talking about a real game changer like Anderson up top but an overall solid class that will add depth and competition in practice that should get Babo going again. That coupled with a predicted drop off at Springfield I expect Babson to win the NEWMAC. Wheaton with its new staff will have plenty to say about that but I think they might be a recruiting class or 2 away. They got the kid from NEFC Talleri who is a solid good player, Cawood is a 6'3 defender out of Marin FC, Collins played with Talleri at St.Johns Prep and is a pacey left footed midfielder. I will say Collins needs to add some muscle to his frame and has no right foot but has some skill and speed but he might be a year r 2 away. Hanlon I think could contribute as he is a competitive kid played for Bolts and likes to mix it up. I think I am missing a couple others but again Babson should have enough talent to compete for the NEWMAC title.

blooter442

#5984
Great insight, thanks Right. Insofar that a NEWMAC team hasn't made it to the Sweet 16 since Babo in 2011, perhaps it's fair to say that the NEWMAC has been a bit "down" the past few years, or at least to the extent that it was "up" when Wheaton had those great teams in the late 90s/early 2000s and Babson was one of the top teams in NE between 2009 and 2011, so even without a game changer like Anderson you are probably correct that they have enough to win the NEWMAC. You can be sure they'll be fired up after missing the NEWMAC tournament for the first time in history.

Edit: Realized I was mistaken about the Sweet 16 comment, as MIT made the Sweet 16 back in 2015. Regardless, I didn't feel that MIT team was fantastic - they had some decent talent and did get a draw on the road at 'Deis, but played a pretty weak schedule that year and were well-beaten by Oneonta in the tournament. They were the best team in the conference over the course of the year, even though they did lose to Babson in the NEWMAC final, so it wasn't like the conference was strong overall IMHO. All told, realizing my mistake hasn't changed my view on the NEWMAC as a conference during the time referenced.