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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Multi-Regional Topics => Topic started by: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 AM

Title: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 AM
I thought this would be a good place to summarize and discuss the impact of changes for D3hoops coming up next season.   What schools are changing conferences, what are the new conferences, who is moving into or out of 'Bumblin B' status, who is moving into or out of automatic qualifier status, who is coming into or out of provisional status...   hopefully it's a topic that can stimulate some interest during the summer month.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 01, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
The Northern Athletics Conference of Aurora, Benedictine, Concordia-IL, Concordia-WI, Dominican, Edgewood, Lakeland, Maranatha Baptist, Marian, Milwaukee School of Engineering, Rockford, Wisconsin Lutheran, adn Alverno (Women's Only) will no longer be in Pool B as they will receive Pool A statuts. 12 men's and 13 women's teams taken out of Pool B.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 03:21:39 PM
from the PAC room  -   The PAC (Pennsylvania Athletic Conference)  is now the CSAC   -   the Colonial States Athletic Conference  -  or "SeeSac"

uhoh this is not going to help a midwesterner like me keed thos Middle Atlantic conferences straight, what wit the CC and the CAC already out there :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 01, 2008, 04:15:39 PM
i'll be fine with this one change as long as the MIAA doesn't change their name so they don't disenfranchise their indiana schools anymore.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 05:27:07 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on May 01, 2008, 04:15:39 PM
i'll be fine with this one change as long as the MIAA doesn't change their name so they don't disenfranchise their indiana schools anymore.


They've only got one Indiana school - Tri-State/Trine.  The CCI did not become the CCIW until there were two Wisconsin schools - Carroll (which has since left for the MWC) and Carthage (which was in Illinois then moved the whole freakin' campus to Kenosha).

Since there is now only one Wisconsin school, I think equity dictates that the CCIW becomes the CCIIIIIIIW. ::) ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on May 01, 2008, 05:43:22 PM
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 06:23:06 PM
Quote from: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 03:21:39 PM
from the PAC room  -   The PAC (Pennsylvania Athletic Conference)  is now the CSAC   -   the Colonial States Athletic Conference  -  or "SeeSac"

uhoh this is not going to help a midwesterner like me keep those Middle Atlantic conferences straight, what with the CC and the CAC already out there :-\
Or dyslexic SCAC fans.   :D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: sac on May 01, 2008, 05:43:22 PM
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 06:51:13 PM
These schools are in the "pipeline" for Fall 2008, and these schools should be in Pool B for 2008-09 and 2009-10.

Four schools in the UMAC move from re-classifying (MN-Morris) or provisional (Bethany Lutheran, Crown MN and Northwestern College) to full D-III membership.

These schools also join as full members:

Mount Aloysius College (AMCC).

Penn State Berks College (NEAC)

Purchase (Skyline)

Salem NC College (Women -- Independent)

Mount Mary (WI) College (Women -- Independent)

University of Maine at Presque Isle (Independent)

This adds 7 schools to Pool B for the Women and four schools for the Men.

These schools are scheduled to move the Year-3 Provisional Status.  (In Year-3, the games against Year-3 schools count in the calculations of the Regional Rankings.)

Lancaster (PA) Bible College

LaSierra University (CA)

Lyndon (VT) State College

St Vincent College PA  (Pres AC)

SUNY at Morrisville (SUNYAC)

NCAA pdf (http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_III/membership_information/Current_EPR.pdf)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 07:00:00 PM
There are lots of changes in New England as a new conference is formed, and several more teams switch conferences.

Also, please check out the blog, Mid-Atlantic Shuffle (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/category/mid-atlantic-shuffle/).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Just Bill on May 01, 2008, 08:31:43 PM
From what I have heard Mount Mary (Wis.) has little chance of being granted full member status.  They likely won't meet the necessary criteria.  The rumor is they will be asked to repeat year 4 provisional, and if they can't do that they'll have to find another option.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 01, 2008, 09:14:52 PM
I agree -- Mount Mary has done little to merit getting full membership.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Knightstalker on May 02, 2008, 12:49:44 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 06:51:13 PM
These schools are in the "pipeline" for Fall 2008, and these schools should be in Pool B for 2008-09 and 2009-10.

Four schools in the UMAC move from re-classifying (MN-Morris) or provisional (Bethany Lutheran, Crown MN and Northwestern College) to full D-III membership.

These schools also join as full members:

Mount Aloysius College (AMCC).

Penn State Berks College (NEAC)

Purchase (Skyline)

Salem NC College (Women -- Independent)

Mount Mary (WI) College (Women -- Independent)

University of Maine at Presque Isle (Independent)

This adds 7 schools to Pool B for the Women and four schools for the Men.

These schools are scheduled to move the Year-3 Provisional Status.  (In Year-3, the games against Year-3 schools count in the calculations of the Regional Rankings.)

Lancaster (PA) Bible College

LaSierra University (CA)

Lyndon (VT) State College

St Vincent College PA  (Pres AC)

SUNY at Morrisville (SUNYAC)

NCAA pdf (http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_III/membership_information/Current_EPR.pdf)

From the Future of Division III thread:

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2008, 06:12:18 PM
Interesting quote from Titan Q's post...

QuoteAs a tangible indicator that our plan is resonating with people, we have welcomed 11 new members into the NAIA in 2007-08. New members include: Indiana University East, Life University (Ga.), St. Catherine College (Ky.), Soka University (Calif.), Ave Maria University (Fla.), Cincinnati Christian College (Ohio), Kentucky Christian University, University of Maine, Presque Isle, College of Santa Fe (N.M), Southeastern University (Fla.), Talladega College (Ala.).

+1 Titan!  :)

Is UMPI going to maintain dual status?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 02, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: sac on May 01, 2008, 05:43:22 PM
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)

How could anyone forget about St. Mary's? Its sports teams have one of the best nicknames in D3: the Belles.

Tura lura lura!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2008, 01:13:59 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on May 02, 2008, 12:49:44 AM

Is UMPI going to maintain dual status?

Inquiring minds want to know.
I saw the news today about the flooding in Fort Kent, ME at the northern tip of the state.  They (UMaine-Fort Kent) are more remote than UMPI!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 02, 2008, 01:32:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 02, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: sac on May 01, 2008, 05:43:22 PM
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)

How could anyone forget about St. Mary's? Its sports teams have one of the best nicknames in D3: the Belles.

Tura lura lura!

I was always under the impression that it was "toura, loura, loura" - can anyone channel Bing Crosby to officiate? :D

And one of my favorite guilty pleasures was NOT "The Belles of St. Mary's"! ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: pabegg on May 02, 2008, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 02, 2008, 01:32:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 02, 2008, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: sac on May 01, 2008, 05:43:22 PM
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)

How could anyone forget about St. Mary's? Its sports teams have one of the best nicknames in D3: the Belles.

Tura lura lura!

I was always under the impression that it was "toura, loura, loura" - can anyone channel Bing Crosby to officiate? :D

And one of my favorite guilty pleasures was NOT "The Belles of St. Mary's"! ;)

Toora loora, toura loura, and tura lura all appear in various published versions. "Tura lura" would be the Irish Gaelic form.

On the other hand, Tennyson used "tirra lirra" and Shakespeare used "tirra lyra" (in A Winter's Tale).

Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2008, 02:53:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 02, 2008, 01:32:44 AM
And one of my favorite guilty pleasures was NOT "The Belles of St. Mary's"! ;)

I like puns. So sue me. :D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 AM
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 12, 2008, 02:18:25 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 AM
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.

Dallas is joining the NEAC? ???

So many jokes ... so many punchlines ... brain overload ... help!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: pabegg on September 12, 2008, 07:02:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 AM
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 08:41:39 AM
Quote from: pabegg on September 12, 2008, 07:02:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 AM
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
As for Dallas in the NFL East, the Cowboys have been in the same division with the New York football Giants, da Skins and da Iggles since 1961.

Tradition!   ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 12, 2008, 10:23:40 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 08:41:39 AM
Quote from: pabegg on September 12, 2008, 07:02:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 AM
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
As for Dallas in the NFL East, the Cowboys have been in the same division with the New York football Giants, da Skins and da Iggles since 1961.

Tradition!   ;)

Also when they realigned the division due to the merger with the AFL they had five different plans. The plan they selected was the only one that had Dallas in the East. The other four had them in either the Central or the West. All four plans that weren't selected also had Minnesota in the East.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on September 12, 2008, 10:23:40 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 08:41:39 AM
Quote from: pabegg on September 12, 2008, 07:02:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 AM
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
As for Dallas in the NFL East, the Cowboys have been in the same division with the New York football Giants, da Skins and da Iggles since 1961.

Tradition!   ;)

Also when they realigned the division due to the merger with the AFL they had five different plans. The plan they selected was the only one that had Dallas in the East. The other four had them in either the Central or the West. All four plans that weren't selected also had Minnesota in the East.
That decision showed the strength of Pete Rozelle and Tex Schramm inside the workings of the NFL.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 04:21:29 PM
On the NEAC Men's hoops board, bballfan44 reports that the UDallas deal was approved one month ago and that the deal is for two years.

That will give the conference a chance for some of their provisional members to move to full status.

It also allows UDallas an "out", if and when the SCAC wishes to expand to 16 teams.

Berry College GA is probably coming online as a provisional in 2009-10.  Berry has an endowment of over $600M, and sponsors 15 sports including women's equestrian.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 14, 2008, 07:56:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 04:21:29 PM
On the NEAC Men's hoops board, bballfan44 reports that the UDallas deal was approved one month ago and that the deal is for two years.

That will give the conference a chance for some of their provisional members to move to full status.

It also allows UDallas an "out", if and when the SCAC wishes to expand to 16 teams.

Berry College GA is probably coming online as a provisional in 2009-10.  Berry has an endowment of over $600M, and sponsors 15 sports including women's equestrian.

A 16-school league might be a great option for the travel-plagued SCAC, in that it would facilitate a move to two divisions (East and West) that would (to cite only two sports as an example) allow the league to reduce the travel for men's and women's basketball by confining the traditional double round-robin to divisional games only while playing only single round-robin games interdivisionally, or by not even playing a full interdivisional round-robin at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2008, 07:35:04 PM
Spalding (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=37307) joins the SLIAC in 2009-10.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 14, 2011, 09:39:56 AM
I'm resurrecting this old thread as there seems to be a great deal of conference shuffling for this year and in upcoming years.

For 2011-12:
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on October 14, 2011, 11:38:18 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 14, 2011, 09:39:56 AM
I'm resurrecting this old thread as there seems to be a great deal of conference shuffling for this year and in upcoming years.

For 2011-12:
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.

Added Cornell joining the MWC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: CityD3 on October 15, 2011, 11:39:14 AM
Bard leaves Skyline for LL in 2011-2012
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2011, 10:47:00 PM
As cited above,

Centenary (http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=17900&ATCLID=205302887&SPID=10676&SPSID=89532) LA joins the SCAC in 2012-13.

Actually this makes sense from a "macro" point of view.  Stablizing the southwest with 2 solid conferences will help with playoff appearances and hosting first round games.

Even with McMurry and Centenary leaving, the ASC has 14 teams and the SCAC will have 6.  In fact, the movement of 2 more teams from the ASC to the SCAC makes sense.  I don't know who is acceptable to the SCAC in this part of the country from the ranks of D-III.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: magicman on October 16, 2011, 02:16:26 AM
Quote from: CityD3 on October 15, 2011, 11:39:14 AM
Bard leaves Skyline for LL in 2011-2012

Rochester Institute of Technology has left the Empire 8 league and has also joined the Liberty League. The LL now has 9 members and the Empire 8 is back to 8 members. I hope Bard did some major recruiting in basketball. It may be several years before they can get a conference win.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 08:24:54 AM
[With updates given -- Thanks!]

For 2011-12:
Bard leaves the SKY for the LL
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC
Rochester Tech leaves the E8 for the LL

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 08:32:15 AM
Any way to get this thread title changed to reflect '11-12?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2011, 08:50:30 AM

Four teams left the CCC for the 2011-2012 season:

Colby Sawyer and New England College to the NAC

Anna Maria to the GNAC

Regis to the NECC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2011, 10:25:56 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 08:32:15 AM
Any way to get this thread title changed to reflect '11-12?

Done.
Title: Re: Conference Changes in D3 Hoops for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 10:57:04 AM
[With updates given -- Thanks!]

For 2011-12:
Anna Maria leaves the CCC for the GNAC
Bard leaves the SKY for the LL
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the CCC for the NAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC
New England College leaves the CCC for the NAC
Regis leaves the CCC for the NECC
Rochester Tech leaves the E8 for the LL

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on October 17, 2011, 11:07:49 AM
Good place to also discuss ELIGIBILITY questions...

Spalding, who will likely be favored in the SLIAC race, is in their final year of Ineligibility...  they will not be in the conference tourney..

What about Geneva.... are they eligible this year in the PrAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 12:42:50 PM
Quote from: hopefan on October 17, 2011, 11:07:49 AM
Good place to also discuss ELIGIBILITY questions...

Spalding, who will likely be favored in the SLIAC race, is in their final year of Ineligibility...  they will not be in the conference tourney..

What about Geneva.... are they eligible this year in the PrAC?

I have Geneva as a full member this year, so they should be eligible for the PrAC AQ.

Here's who I have as being in the provisional pipeline:

Year 4 (full member in '12-13)
Penn State-Abington
Spalding
SUNY-Cobleskill

Year 3 (full member in '13-14)
Berry
Covenant

Year 2 (full member in '14-15)
Centenary (La.)

Year 1 (full member in '15-16)
(none)

Exploratory Year
Houghton
Georgetown (Ky)
Kentucky Wesleyan
Sarah Lawrence
Southern Virginia
SUNY-Canton
Valley Forge Christian

Games against provisional teams in years three and four of the process can count as regional games
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on October 19, 2011, 12:36:44 PM
Where is everything D3 hoops on the NCAA site....  ie, the teams and conferences, regional locales - the geographic splits, tournament selection criteria etc....    getting my spreadsheet ready and want to doublecheck some things..... Thanks....
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 19, 2011, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: hopefan on October 19, 2011, 12:36:44 PM
Where is everything D3 hoops on the NCAA site....  ie, the teams and conferences, regional locales - the geographic splits, tournament selection criteria etc....    getting my spreadsheet ready and want to doublecheck some things..... Thanks....

The championship handbook is the place to start:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Sports+and+Championship/General+Information/championship+handbooks

They probably won't have this years' update posted until December or January.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on October 19, 2011, 04:21:10 PM
thanks Knightslappy... your knowlege and database work never fail to impress me!!!! (I'm just an old man novice who keys with a max of 4 fingers!!!)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on October 20, 2011, 11:31:14 PM
I've been trying to track the conference moves through something that I'll share when we get closer to the start of the season. But here's what I have for this year and next.

Building on KnightSlappy's list...

For 2011-12:
Anna Maria leaves the CCC for the GNAC
Bard leaves the SKY for the LL
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC (not eligible for automatic bid until 2012-13)
Colby-Sawyer leaves the CCC for the NAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC
New England College leaves the CCC for the NAC
New York City Tech discontinues intercollegiate sports, leaves CUNYAC
Regis leaves the CCC for the NECC
Rochester Tech leaves the E8 for the LL

Starting in 2012-2013
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hood leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth
LaGrange leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Maryville (Tenn.) leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Piedmont leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Shenandoah leaves the USA South to join the ODAC
Stevenson leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 28, 2011, 10:14:47 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on October 20, 2011, 11:31:14 PM
For 2011-12:
Chapman joins the SCIAC (not eligible for automatic bid until 2012-13)

I'm assuming then, since they're officially a SCIAC member now, that they won't be pool B eligible (even though they're not Pool A eligible with their conference). Is this correct?

So in order for Chapman to make the tournament, they'll have to earn a Pool C bid?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 28, 2011, 10:53:43 AM
That's how it was explained to me.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: dahlby on October 28, 2011, 11:17:09 AM
KnightSlappy,
That is correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2012-13
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 24, 2012, 11:16:30 AM
We got a good jump on the 2012-13 changes last season. Any more coming that aren't on this list? Or any more on the radar for 2013-14 and beyond?

Starting in 2012-2013
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hood leaves the CAC for the MACC
LaGrange leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
Maryville (Tenn.) leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Piedmont leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Shenandoah leaves the USAC to join the ODAC
Stevenson leaves the CAC for the MACC
William Peace joins the USAC with addition of men's sports

Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC

Is the GSAC still going to exist in 2012-13?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Just Bill on May 24, 2012, 11:25:55 AM
Starting in 2013-14, Maranatha Baptist leaves the Northern Athletics for independent status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 24, 2012, 06:03:08 PM
I think that the GSAC still exists as a women's conference for Huntingdon and provisional Covenant.


2102-13 

McMurry leaves the ASC and goes provisional D-II and the Heartland Conference.

2013-14

Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: RustCollege on May 25, 2012, 08:54:56 PM
so how many independent are left
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 02:34:28 AM
Quote from: RustCollege on May 25, 2012, 08:54:56 PM
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: scottiedoug on May 27, 2012, 02:25:36 PM
Wouldn't Covenant be the same as Huntingdon for 2112-13?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 07:08:11 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on May 27, 2012, 02:25:36 PM
Wouldn't Covenant be the same as Huntingdon for 2112-13?
Yes, but Covenant will be in year #4 of Provisional status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2012, 08:42:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 02:34:28 AM
Quote from: RustCollege on May 25, 2012, 08:54:56 PM
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.

... which means one Pool B slot for the men's basketball tournament, correct?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2012, 08:42:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 02:34:28 AM
Quote from: RustCollege on May 25, 2012, 08:54:56 PM
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.

... which means one Pool B slot for the men's basketball tournament, correct?
Plus the 7 active members of the SAA.  I think so.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:27:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2012, 08:42:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 02:34:28 AM
Quote from: RustCollege on May 25, 2012, 08:54:56 PM
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.

... which means one Pool B slot for the men's basketball tournament, correct?
Plus the 7 active members of the SAA.  I think so.

I believe recent access ratios have been 9-point-something (and they round up), so the first Pool B bid comes at 10 teams, and the second at 19 teams. So Ralph is correct that we'd see one bid this upcoming year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
It also looks like 2012-13 will have 409 eligible teams, so we'll miss out on the 63rd bid by one team.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
It also looks like 2012-13 will have 409 eligible teams, so we'll miss out on the 63rd bid by one team.
I believe that we are adding 2, (Spaulding and SUNY-Cobleskill) and dropping one (McMurry) for 2012-13.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
Just to clarify... the access ratio was 1:9.3 last season - that means that there were 9.3 teams for every automatic bid from a conference that had the AQ. The ratio for bids outside of AQ (overall) is 6.5:1.

Last year there were 405 eligible schools for the tournament (there were 410 schools, but five were not eligible for the post-season). That results in 62.3... rounded down makes it a 62 team field.

For Pool B... that means there has to be 13 teams to receive a second bid. Not sure about the 409 eligible... that number could shift depending on NCAA decisions on teams eligible and such.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Hampton U SID on May 29, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
I believe UMPI has left the NAIA and (according to their website) has gone NCAA and USCAA --- they're listed as AD3I (Assoc. D3 Independents) and USCAA
For what its worth
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2012, 05:16:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
Just to clarify... the access ratio was 1:9.3 last season - that means that there were 9.3 teams for every automatic bid from a conference that had the AQ. The ratio for bids outside of AQ (overall) is 6.5:1.

Last year there were 405 eligible schools for the tournament (there were 410 schools, but five were not eligible for the post-season). That results in 62.3... rounded down makes it a 62 team field.

For Pool B... that means there has to be 13 teams to receive a second bid. Not sure about the 409 eligible... that number could shift depending on NCAA decisions on teams eligible and such.

No, Dave, that isn't correct. The Pool B bids are handed out at the same rate as the Pool A bids are -- the one for every 9.3. That's why it's taken 19 teams to get to two B bids. They're eligible for the same at-large bids as Pool A conference members.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2012, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: nnasid on May 29, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
I believe UMPI has left the NAIA and (according to their website) has gone NCAA and USCAA --- they're listed as AD3I (Assoc. D3 Independents) and USCAA
For what its worth
Thanks!  (Of course you would know.  The Apprentice School has been an integral part of the success of the USCAA. ;)  )
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:22:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
It also looks like 2012-13 will have 409 eligible teams, so we'll miss out on the 63rd bid by one team.
I believe that we are adding 2, (Spaulding and SUNY-Cobleskill) and dropping one (McMurry) for 2012-13.

I have Penn State-Abington as a full member next season as well. Also William Peace will be playing Men's hoops.

I forgot about McMurry leaving. I think that makes 408 then. 410 should come the next season with Covenant and Berry.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Hampton U SID on May 29, 2012, 10:06:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2012, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: nnasid on May 29, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
I believe UMPI has left the NAIA and (according to their website) has gone NCAA and USCAA --- they're listed as AD3I (Assoc. D3 Independents) and USCAA
For what its worth
Thanks!  (Of course you would know.  The Apprentice School has been an integral part of the success of the USCAA. ;)  )

:)
I'd say integral -- up until 2010-11 we housed the national office.  They're now up town pretty much in between us and CNU.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 30, 2012, 12:56:40 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2012, 05:16:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
Just to clarify... the access ratio was 1:9.3 last season - that means that there were 9.3 teams for every automatic bid from a conference that had the AQ. The ratio for bids outside of AQ (overall) is 6.5:1.

Last year there were 405 eligible schools for the tournament (there were 410 schools, but five were not eligible for the post-season). That results in 62.3... rounded down makes it a 62 team field.

For Pool B... that means there has to be 13 teams to receive a second bid. Not sure about the 409 eligible... that number could shift depending on NCAA decisions on teams eligible and such.

No, Dave, that isn't correct. The Pool B bids are handed out at the same rate as the Pool A bids are -- the one for every 9.3. That's why it's taken 19 teams to get to two B bids. They're eligible for the same at-large bids as Pool A conference members.
Yeah - sorry, misread the handbook while I was writing that - sorry for the mistake and any confusion.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2012-13
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 02, 2012, 03:00:03 PM
Just adding a few more. I expect we will hear more details on the provisional pipeline in the next few weeks.

Starting in 2012-2013
Berry (provisional) joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hood leaves the CAC for the MACC
Houghton joins the E8 (should be a first year provisional in 2012-13)
LaGrange leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
Maryville (Tenn.) leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
McMurry leaves the ASC for Division II
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Piedmont leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Shenandoah leaves the USAC to join the ODAC
Stevenson leaves the CAC for the MACC
William Peace joins the USAC with addition of men's sports

Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a first year provisional in 2012-13)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 20, 2012, 12:59:56 PM
Knight, are Berry and Covenant provisional for one more year?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2012, 01:35:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 20, 2012, 12:59:56 PM
Knight, are Berry and Covenant provisional for one more year?

I believe so, yes. Both should be Year 4.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 01, 2013, 11:43:40 AM
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NATHCON / NATHC / NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

*My information on Iowa Wesleyan could be considered somewhat dicey. Year 1 may also include Berea and Illinois Tech, but I haven't seen word on their respective statuses.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: CityD3 on July 02, 2013, 09:25:37 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 01, 2013, 11:43:40 AM
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)

Sarah Lawrence joining Skyline 2014-2015
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on July 02, 2013, 04:22:18 PM
Wilson College will play its innaugural season of men's basketball in 2014-15 and compete in the NEAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 02, 2013, 04:54:59 PM
Thanks for the updates! Please continue to feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College**

*My information on Iowa Wesleyan could be considered somewhat dicey. Year 1 may also include Berea and Illinois Tech, but I haven't seen word on their respective statuses.
**Bryn Athyn and Penn College have apparently been granted provisional status into the NEAC.


Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Wilson College adds men's basketball and joins the NEAC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2013, 05:18:48 PM
I sent an email to Iowa Wesleyan to inquire. Unlike with Alfred State, I have not seen an announcement of their acceptance into provisional status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on July 02, 2013, 05:24:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 02, 2013, 04:54:59 PM
Thanks for the updates! Please continue to feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College**

*My information on Iowa Wesleyan could be considered somewhat dicey. Year 1 may also include Berea and Illinois Tech, but I haven't seen word on their respective statuses.
**Bryn Athyn and Penn College have apparently been granted provisional status into the NEAC.


Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Wilson College adds men's basketball and joins the NEAC

Maranatha Baptist left the NACC for the independent ranks as of yesterday.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: Just Bill on July 02, 2013, 05:29:24 PM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on July 02, 2013, 05:24:23 PM

Maranatha Baptist left the NACC for the independent ranks as of yesterday.

Already on the list.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2013, 05:31:57 PM
I am thinking that technically, Maranatha left the NATHC. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 03, 2013, 07:55:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2013, 05:18:48 PM
I sent an email to Iowa Wesleyan to inquire. Unlike with Alfred State, I have not seen an announcement of their acceptance into provisional status.

The only thing I found on Iowa Wesleyan was the Eureka women's volleyball schedule preview in which they called them (i.e. Iowa Wesleyan) a "new league rival". The post then went on to say:

"The top four teams in the final SLIAC standings, excluding provisional NCAA Division III member Iowa Wesleyan, will qualify for the league tournament."

http://eurekareddevils.com/mobile/index.aspx?story=1316
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on July 03, 2013, 09:25:19 AM
Iowa Wesleyan's Hoops schedule has been out for awhile and includes a full slate of 18 SLIAC games.  Interesting about the schedule is that the two games with Spalding (Louisville, Ky) are to be played at neutral sites.. more centrally located SLIAC schools are offering up their courts for two nights.... (470 mile trip)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 03, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 03, 2013, 07:55:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2013, 05:18:48 PM
I sent an email to Iowa Wesleyan to inquire. Unlike with Alfred State, I have not seen an announcement of their acceptance into provisional status.

The only thing I found on Iowa Wesleyan was the Eureka women's volleyball schedule preview in which they called them (i.e. Iowa Wesleyan) a "new league rival". The post then went on to say:

"The top four teams in the final SLIAC standings, excluding provisional NCAA Division III member Iowa Wesleyan, will qualify for the league tournament."

http://eurekareddevils.com/mobile/index.aspx?story=1316

From the SLIAC website archives: http://sliac.org/Releases/2011-12/iwc_120811
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 03, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 03, 2013, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 03, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.

Interesting distinction and good to know. Thanks Pat.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 03, 2013, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 03, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.

SLIAC membership could be related as it gives indication that the conference believes they'll progress thru the pipeline.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: smedindy on July 04, 2013, 03:11:14 PM
Is Maranatha's jump to independence a prelude to a step away from D-3, or something else? Could they follow Presentation out the door?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 05, 2013, 12:54:46 AM
Quote from: smedindy on July 04, 2013, 03:11:14 PM
Is Maranatha's jump to independence a prelude to a step away from D-3, or something else? Could they follow Presentation out the door?

I would think it is definitely possible. They seem to be far more committed to the NCCAA than the NCAA.

Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 03, 2013, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 03, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.

SLIAC membership could be related as it gives indication that the conference believes they'll progress thru the pipeline.

Yes, but one is not dependent on the other.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on July 14, 2013, 03:54:07 PM
On the way to Gulf Shores, stopped for an overnight in Jackson Ms... saw on the sports news that Mississippi College had been DENIED membership to NCAA D2...

What now?  are they still in the ASC?  are they playing an ASC sked this year, or a D2 sked?

A running headline on the MC site states that MC leaders plan to appeal....
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 14, 2013, 07:43:18 PM
Quote from: hopefan on July 14, 2013, 03:54:07 PM
On the way to Gulf Shores, stopped for an overnight in Jackson Ms... saw on the sports news that Mississippi College had been DENIED membership to NCAA D2...

What now?  are they still in the ASC?  are they playing an ASC sked this year, or a D2 sked?

A running headline on the MC site states that MC leaders plan to appeal....

There is a thread in "General D3 Issues" addressing the Miss Col situation (though I don't recall these particular issues being discussed).  Asking your questions there might get more response.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 15, 2013, 12:07:35 PM
They are still in the ASC. Departure from the ASC was contingent on gaining acceptance in Division II.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 19, 2013, 10:03:46 AM
Quote from: hopefan on July 14, 2013, 03:54:07 PM
On the way to Gulf Shores, stopped for an overnight in Jackson Ms... saw on the sports news that Mississippi College had been DENIED membership to NCAA D2...

What now?  are they still in the ASC?  are they playing an ASC sked this year, or a D2 sked?

A running headline on the MC site states that MC leaders plan to appeal....

Was there an explanation of why they were denied? Is a decision like that made by those in the D2 ranks of the NCAA or elsewhere in the NCAA?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 19, 2013, 10:44:24 AM
I believe it is entirely a Division II decision.

I did not see anything official, but one D-II person I talked to said recently schools have been turned down if they have an AD also as head coach of a sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Just Bill on July 19, 2013, 10:48:10 AM
D-II also likes a stand-alone compliance person, that doesn't have coaching or AD duties.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 09, 2013, 01:20:28 PM
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NATHCON / NATHC / NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

*Year 1 may also include Berea, but I've seen nothing on them.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 09, 2013, 01:37:20 PM
Illinois Tech is year 1 provisional and they are no longer members of the NAIA Chicagoland Conference
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: ronk on August 09, 2013, 09:32:55 PM
 Wilson College will be fielding a men's basketball team in the NEAC in 2014-15.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 12, 2013, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: ronk on August 09, 2013, 09:32:55 PM
Wilson College will be fielding a men's basketball team in the NEAC in 2014-15.

Wouldn't this be called 'courting'?

-----

Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NATHCON / NATHC / NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

*Year 1 may also include Berea, but I've seen nothing on them.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Wilson adds Men's basketball and joins the NEAC.



UPDATE:  Mississippi College is going to D-2.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2013, 03:17:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 12, 2013, 11:57:41 AM

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014


Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC


Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC


I interpret these moves by the CAC as an effort to earn Pool A football bid over the next several years.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 28, 2013, 01:10:37 PM
Don't read into that, Ralph... they aren't that close. And there are no guarantees that those who have football and CAC teams would be willing to leave their conferences for a CAC football conference.

But more importantly, the numbers don't add up.

First off, PSU-Harrisburg doesn't have football and hasn't announced any plans to (though, doesn't mean they aren't exploring the idea... who knows).

That leaves the following schools in the CAC that have football: Christopher-Newport, Frostburg State, Salisbury, Southern Virginia and Wesley. Even if Harrisburg added football you are only at six schools... not enough for an AQ which certainly wouldn't entice any of the CAC member to leave AQs and join a conference that didn't. I also can't imagine who they would pull in or steal from another conference to make that work - everyone around them is in stable conferences.

If the Landmark can't get a football thing going with its eventual six members... I highly doubt the CAC could pull it off as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 29, 2013, 12:20:45 AM
Could pull in Alfred State as an affiliate.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 29, 2013, 12:30:19 PM
Nothing like an eight hour drive on a good day between Alfred State and Christopher Newport :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 01, 2013, 10:18:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 29, 2013, 12:30:19 PM
Nothing like an eight hour drive on a good day between Alfred State and Christopher Newport :)

Salisbury goes to Alfred ... this is what schools will do for access to a football automatic bid.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on September 26, 2013, 06:20:25 PM
This will likely be the last year for NYU-Polytech as an independent athletic program.  They are headed toward merging with NYU in 2013-2014.

http://nyunews.com/2013/09/23/merger/
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 12:28:13 PM
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM
Also keep in mind the overall conference/region changes.

- WIAC (men) move to the Central Region (renamed) - women are already there
- HCAC (men) move to the Great Lakes Region - women already there
- CSAC and MAC Freedom conferences moved to the Atlantic Region
- Landmark and CAC conferences officially placed in Mid-Atlantic Region (couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
- NEAC officially moved into the East Region (had been spread across many regions)

I think that is it off the top of my head...
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 04:10:39 PM
Great additions Dave, thanks for the reminder!

Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Midwest Region


Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
[/quote]
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: ronk on May 12, 2014, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM
Also keep in mind the overall conference/region changes.

- WIAC (men) move to the Central Region (renamed) - women are already there
- HCAC (men) move to the Great Lakes Region - women already there
- CSAC and MAC Freedom conferences moved to the Atlantic Region
- Landmark and CAC conferences officially placed in Mid-Atlantic Region (couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
- NEAC officially moved into the East Region (had been spread across many regions)

I think that is it off the top of my head...

Is that why there are fewer chatters this year on those websites? :o

Does Coach Donohue(Catholic) lose his national board spot because his school changes regions?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: David Collinge on May 12, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM(couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
Sleeping with the fishes, no doubt.

__________

UW-Superior is leaving the WIAC for the UMAC in the '15-'16 academic year. I know everyone knows that, I never get a scoop, but it's not on the list.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 09:08:15 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on May 12, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM(couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
Sleeping with the fishes, no doubt.

__________

UW-Superior is leaving the WIAC for the UMAC in the '15-'16 academic year. I know everyone knows that, I never get a scoop, but it's not on the list.

Is this for sure, for sure now? I saw it was a possibility but hadn't seen it confirmed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 12, 2014, 10:54:35 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 09:08:15 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on May 12, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM(couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
Sleeping with the fishes, no doubt.

__________

UW-Superior is leaving the WIAC for the UMAC in the '15-'16 academic year. I know everyone knows that, I never get a scoop, but it's not on the list.

Is this for sure, for sure now? I saw it was a possibility but hadn't seen it confirmed.

Confirmed as of last Wednesday

http://umacathletics.com/news/2014/5/7/GEN_0507140430.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 13, 2014, 08:30:19 AM
Thanks!

Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member in 2015-16)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 13, 2014, 08:47:22 AM

I am so not looking forward to relearning the regions.  I'm glad they're changing, but I'm going to be making a lot of mistakes the next couple years.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 13, 2014, 11:34:51 PM
Believe we can take the caveat off Bryn Athyn. Got a release from them recently saying they had been accepted into Provisional Year 1.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: John Gleich on May 13, 2014, 11:39:10 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 13, 2014, 08:30:19 AM
Thanks!

Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Midwest Region Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2014, 09:53:02 AM
Quote from: ronk on May 12, 2014, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM
Also keep in mind the overall conference/region changes.

- WIAC (men) move to the Central Region (renamed) - women are already there
- HCAC (men) move to the Great Lakes Region - women already there
- CSAC and MAC Freedom conferences moved to the Atlantic Region
- Landmark and CAC conferences officially placed in Mid-Atlantic Region (couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
- NEAC officially moved into the East Region (had been spread across many regions)

I think that is it off the top of my head...

Is that why there are fewer chatters this year on those websites? :o

Does Coach Donohue(Catholic) lose his national board spot because his school changes regions?

He was in his fourth year as it was... so it doesn't affect him or the school as he comes off the board due to years served.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 14, 2014, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 13, 2014, 11:34:51 PM
Believe we can take the caveat off Bryn Athyn. Got a release from them recently saying they had been accepted into Provisional Year 1.

Thanks, I did find the chart and it looks like all advanced as expected.

Quote from: John Gleich on May 13, 2014, 11:39:10 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 13, 2014, 08:30:19 AM
WIAC realigned from West to Midwest Region Central Region

Guh, already I'm so bad at this.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on July 26, 2014, 10:25:34 PM
I didn't know this was possible, but Sarah Lawrence will skip its third year provisional status and enter the fourth year in 2014-2015.

http://www.gogryphons.com/news/2014/7/23/GEN_0723143557.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 27, 2014, 10:10:28 AM
I guess that it's possible if you apply for, and are granted, a waiver by the NCAA to skip a provisional year. What I don't get is under what criteria they could measure that you've gone above and beyond what is normally demanded of a provisional D3 athletic department working its way towards full D3 status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 27, 2014, 07:23:34 PM
They also used the word pedagogy in their press-release.   Clearly they are ready. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 27, 2014, 08:20:11 PM
Quote from: sac on July 27, 2014, 07:23:34 PM
They also used the word pedagogy in their press-release.   Clearly they are ready. ;)

Sounds like they should be dinged for plagiarism to me! ;D

(Besides, 'ped' is a prefix for child [e.g., 'pediatrics'] - do we really want a K-8 school in D3? ;))
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 28, 2014, 05:03:07 PM
Well, the press release did say that Sarah Lawrence has a "unique" pedagogy. ;)

Of course, pedagogy long ago dropped the specific meaning of referring to a child's academic tutoring and has come to be a more general term with regard to the profession of teaching. Chuck's predilection for taking a literal approach to the etymology of English words derived from Greek no doubt caused him to regularly inform his second-year EMU statistics students whether they were more wise than foolish, or vice-versa. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 28, 2014, 05:49:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 28, 2014, 05:03:07 PM
Well, the press release did say that Sarah Lawrence has a "unique" pedagogy. ;)

Of course, pedagogy long ago dropped the specific meaning of referring to a child's academic tutoring and has come to be a more general term with regard to the profession of teaching. Chuck's predilection for taking a literal approach to the etymology of English words derived from Greek no doubt caused him to regularly inform his second-year EMU statistics students whether they were more wise than foolish, or vice-versa. ;)

Alas, the evidence was pretty clear that most were more foolish than wise. :P

I also revealed to them that the origin of the word 'student' was a shortening of 'stupid rodent'. ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 29, 2014, 10:16:58 AM
Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 29, 2014, 10:20:54 AM
Does Spalding remain in the South Region or do they join the SLIAC in the Central?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: mailsy on July 29, 2014, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 29, 2014, 10:16:58 AM
Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW

Isn't the Landmark officially all Mid-Atlantic?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 29, 2014, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: mailsy on July 29, 2014, 11:25:32 AM
Isn't the Landmark officially all Mid-Atlantic?

Yes, my mistake. Should read Mid-Atlantic with Merchant Marine moving over from the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 29, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: sac on July 29, 2014, 10:20:54 AM
Does Spalding remain in the South Region or do they join the SLIAC in the Central?

According to this http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/region/south-men Spalding remains in the South Region.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 29, 2014, 11:57:44 PM
We'll have to confirm that when the handbook gets published.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 30, 2014, 08:34:12 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on July 29, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
Quote from: sac on July 29, 2014, 10:20:54 AM
Does Spalding remain in the South Region or do they join the SLIAC in the Central?

According to this http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/region/south-men Spalding remains in the South Region.

That was the first place I looked. :)

I was wondering  if the site hadn't changed it yet, or were they really still going to be in the South.  About a month or two ago the regional boards were all updated.  I thought it odd that Spalding wasn't updated or that the NCAA just spent a lot of time realigning D3 to put conferences in the same region but left Spalding in the South. :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 30, 2014, 08:43:23 AM
I certainly don't know if what you and I saw is correct. Nor do I have any insight into whatever logic the NCAA might be using. Perhaps Mr. Coleman can clarify.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 30, 2014, 10:35:40 AM

I was pretty sure that part of the announcement was that no conference (save the UAA) would be split between regions any longer.  I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 30, 2014, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 30, 2014, 10:35:40 AM

I was pretty sure that part of the announcement was that no conference (save the UAA) would be split between regions any longer.  I could be wrong.

That was my assumption as well, which is why I was surprised to find Spalding still in the South.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 30, 2014, 04:43:42 PM
Spalding and the SLIAC weren't mentioned in the document we got in 2013.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2013/02/regional-realignment-coming
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 30, 2014, 10:33:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 30, 2014, 10:35:40 AM

I was pretty sure that part of the announcement was that no conference (save the UAA) would be split between regions any longer.  I could be wrong.

Not entirely true as the GSAC has the same governance as the UAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: enjoymoreradio on August 17, 2014, 11:22:12 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 29, 2014, 10:16:58 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW

SUNY-Canton received an NCAA waiver to proceed to fourth-year provisional status, per their athletics website.

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx (http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2014, 09:16:33 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2014, 09:17:41 AM
Quote from: enjoymoreradio on August 17, 2014, 11:22:12 PM
SUNY-Canton received an NCAA waiver to proceed to fourth-year provisional status, per their athletics website.

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx (http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx)

I wonder if the NCAA was looking to move a couple schools along since they initially had five scheduled to enter year three and none scheduled for year four.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 18, 2014, 11:02:19 PM
AMCC is moving from multi-region to Great Lakes, or did that happen already?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 19, 2014, 08:10:43 AM
AMCC was moved to the Great Lakes last year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: magicman on August 19, 2014, 06:42:19 PM
Quote from: sac on August 19, 2014, 08:10:43 AM
AMCC was moved to the Great Lakes last year.

sac
I'm pretty sure (not positive) that Hilbert, Medaille, and D'Youville were all in the East Region last year, but have been moved to the Great Lakes this year as the entire conference is now in that region.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 20, 2014, 03:33:53 PM
Yeah... the entire AMCC was in the Great Lakes last season. That was the only thing that changed ahead of this year's stuff.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: magicman on August 20, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
Quote from: sac on August 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link

Thanks for setting me straight sac. I had them in my East Region totals, that I did at various times last year, all season long.  Plus K
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 20, 2014, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: magicman on August 20, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
Quote from: sac on August 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link

Thanks for setting me straight sac. I had them in my East Region totals, that I did at various times last year, all season long.  Plus K

If I remember right, it wasn't official to us(posters, d3hoops.com) until the NCAA manual came out which may have been a few weeks after the season started.  I know for my stuff I didn't move them over until later in the year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 21, 2014, 10:28:29 AM
Got it, thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 21, 2014, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: sac on August 20, 2014, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: magicman on August 20, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
Quote from: sac on August 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link

Thanks for setting me straight sac. I had them in my East Region totals, that I did at various times last year, all season long.  Plus K

If I remember right, it wasn't official to us(posters, d3hoops.com) until the NCAA manual came out which may have been a few weeks after the season started.  I know for my stuff I didn't move them over until later in the year.

We knew it was happening since the NCAA had stated so when talking about regional realignment... however, I know we (D3hoops) were waiting to see if the NCAA had made it clear to all sports and handbooks accordingly. Sometimes that message isn't always handed down clearly. When that handbook came out we also saw schools like Christopher Newport were moved in the Mid-Atlantic to be part of their conference - a move that was immediate instead of waiting until this year. You just want to double-check the handbook to make sure there aren't mistakes made :).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 09:41:05 PM
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2014, 10:36:25 PM
Nice addition to the PresAC.

I am sure that they will have a stagger on the requirements to add programs.

Any idea on if and when they add baseball? 
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 11:06:12 PM
Apparently they are planning to add five men's sports to start, but baseball isn't one of them.  It's a really small school.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2014/08/chatham-adds-mens-hoops
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gray Fox on August 25, 2014, 09:08:38 AM
I had never looked at this board until today.
I'm glad I found you guys. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 25, 2014, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 11:06:12 PM
Apparently they are planning to add five men's sports to start, but baseball isn't one of them.  It's a really small school.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2014/08/chatham-adds-mens-hoops

I see you found the same lack of usable Chatham photos that I did. :)

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2014/07/chatham-adds-men-five-sports
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 25, 2014, 10:42:17 AM
Ha!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 25, 2014, 04:46:31 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side.

I'm just happy that Wilson has added men's volleyball. It only seems right.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.izifunny.com%2Fpics%2F20111215%2F640%2Fstill-a-better-love-story-than-twilight._1.jpg&hash=7992d44e544925fc4ee0235868f420d20045ffce)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: hopefan on August 25, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 25, 2014, 04:46:31 PM


I'm just happy that Wilson has added men's volleyball. It only seems right.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.izifunny.com%2Fpics%2F20111215%2F640%2Fstill-a-better-love-story-than-twilight._1.jpg&hash=7992d44e544925fc4ee0235868f420d20045ffce)

Sager does it again.... +1
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 26, 2014, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.

This may be on hold... due to budget constraints. I am working on an answer and it will certainly be a topic of discussion when I sit down with Dan Dutcher, VP for Division III, in a few weeks for our annual State of D3 interview.

What I have been learning is there is so much concern about the $2 million hole that raising the accessibility to the championships from 6.5:1 to 8 or 9:1 is being seriously debated. Thus, they are holding all championships from growing any further. Now, they wouldn't pull bids away from the tournaments, but further growth would be based on a new ratio. In other words, the tournaments won't go from 64 and 62 teams to less... the men's tournament just won't gain those two other bids as quickly as originally expected under the current ratio.

That all being said, I think there is also some serious momentum of raising the annual dues for schools which I believe stands around $400 to $600 a year. That rate has not changed since the 1980s. I think there are a lot of people and schools who would be happy to raise their dues (maybe to $1,000) to help offset the budget constraints. Keep in mind, those who are part of the ECAC I think pay $3,500 a year and they have to pay for the tournaments they travel to or host.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 26, 2014, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 26, 2014, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.

This may be on hold... due to budget constraints. I am working on an answer and it will certainly be a topic of discussion when I sit down with Dan Dutcher, VP for Division III, in a few weeks for our annual State of D3 interview.

What I have been learning is there is so much concern about the $2 million hole that raising the accessibility to the championships from 6.5:1 to 8 or 9:1 is being seriously debated. Thus, they are holding all championships from growing any further. Now, they wouldn't pull bids away from the tournaments, but further growth would be based on a new ratio. In other words, the tournaments won't go from 64 and 62 teams to less... the men's tournament just won't gain those two other bids as quickly as originally expected under the current ratio.

That all being said, I think there is also some serious momentum of raising the annual dues for schools which I believe stands around $400 to $600 a year. That rate has not changed since the 1980s. I think there are a lot of people and schools who would be happy to raise their dues (maybe to $1,000) to help offset the budget constraints. Keep in mind, those who are part of the ECAC I think pay $3,500 a year and they have to pay for the tournaments they travel to or host.

at 9:1, the 64th bid would come with member #576.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: mailsy on August 26, 2014, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 26, 2014, 01:29:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 26, 2014, 12:17:50 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.

This may be on hold... due to budget constraints. I am working on an answer and it will certainly be a topic of discussion when I sit down with Dan Dutcher, VP for Division III, in a few weeks for our annual State of D3 interview.

What I have been learning is there is so much concern about the $2 million hole that raising the accessibility to the championships from 6.5:1 to 8 or 9:1 is being seriously debated. Thus, they are holding all championships from growing any further. Now, they wouldn't pull bids away from the tournaments, but further growth would be based on a new ratio. In other words, the tournaments won't go from 64 and 62 teams to less... the men's tournament just won't gain those two other bids as quickly as originally expected under the current ratio.

That all being said, I think there is also some serious momentum of raising the annual dues for schools which I believe stands around $400 to $600 a year. That rate has not changed since the 1980s. I think there are a lot of people and schools who would be happy to raise their dues (maybe to $1,000) to help offset the budget constraints. Keep in mind, those who are part of the ECAC I think pay $3,500 a year and they have to pay for the tournaments they travel to or host.

at 9:1, the 64th bid would come with member #576.

Heck, to get to the 64th, every conference just has to add about 4 more teams.  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 27, 2014, 02:15:40 PM
FYI - this is true across the board, despite I think lacrosse adding another team to the tournament this year. Also, I believe all sports that have tournaments have the ability to go to 64 except football which is locked in at 32 and would need legislative approval to move beyond that number... something I know is in the back of football minds as the sport expands and more conferences get AQs.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: ziggy on August 28, 2014, 09:25:32 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 27, 2014, 02:15:40 PM
FYI - this is true across the board, despite I think lacrosse adding another team to the tournament this year. Also, I believe all sports that have tournaments have the ability to go to 64 except football which is locked in at 32 and would need legislative approval to move beyond that number... something I know is in the back of football minds as the sport expands and more conferences get AQs.

I'd like to see the NCAA continue allow growth in the Men's basketball tournament up to 64 teams but would have no problem capping it there. The cost difference just seems so marginal to not allow the bracket to mature into a full tree.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 28, 2014, 02:24:49 PM
Well it would be capped at 64... no tournament can go beyond 64 (except football which is capped at 32). So that isn't the concern... it's the several million dollar budget shortfall that is almost entirely because of championship tournaments.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 29, 2014, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 09:41:05 PM
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx

backtracking to this, if I'm not mistaken the addition of Chatham would push the Great Lakes Region to a 9th ranking slot on the men's side.  (should already be there on the women's side)


Not insignificant. :)

Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2014, 03:45:11 PM

This is the summary I did on the regional realignment board when the news first came out.  It may need to be updated a little with additions (like Chatham), but it's a place to start.



Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 09:55:03 AM

Penn State-Harrisburg, Christopher Newport, and Southern Virginia will be added to the CAC.  That will change a few things.

Harrisburg won't be going to the East with the NEAC; Christopher Newport will be coming to the Mid-Atlantic from the South and Southern Virginia is provisional and not on any lists yet.


So what we're looking at:

Northeast - 12 now, 12 then
East - 6 now, 6 then (although adding a net of two teams)
Atlantic - 5 now, 7 then (adding a net of 17 teams)
Mid-Atlantic - 9 now, 6 then (losing a net of 24 teams)
South - 8 now, 8 then (net change of 0)
Great Lakes - 6 now, 9 then (gaining 17)
Midwest - 8 now, 8 then (net change of 0)
West - 9 now, 7 then (net loss of 11)

There are some provisional schools that have to fill in there, so the numbers might change a little, but this should be the new picture for regional rankings.  Clearly the Atlantic and Great Lakes are getting larger at the expense of the Mid-Atlantic and West, but it should help all regions in the end (except the NE, which stays exactly the same).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2014, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: sac on August 29, 2014, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 09:41:05 PM
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx

backtracking to this, if I'm not mistaken the addition of Chatham would push the Great Lakes Region to a 9th ranking slot on the men's side.  (should already be there on the women's side)


Not insignificant.

My calculations had them at 9 ranking spots already anyway.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 31, 2014, 11:14:10 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 30, 2014, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: sac on August 29, 2014, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 09:41:05 PM
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx

backtracking to this, if I'm not mistaken the addition of Chatham would push the Great Lakes Region to a 9th ranking slot on the men's side.  (should already be there on the women's side)


Not insignificant.

My calculations had them at 9 ranking spots already anyway.

With the HCAC the Great Lakes has 59 teams.  With a 6.5 ratio, that's 9.07 ranking slots, or by NCAA math 9 ranking slots (the NCAA doesn't round up anything).  Chatham would make 60.

I missed one school in my mental math, and 58 would have left them one school short, hence my over exuberant excitement for Chatham. :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: CityD3 on September 09, 2014, 05:25:26 PM
Announced today: St. Joseph's Brooklyn to join Skyline Conference in 2015-2016:

http://www.sjcbears.com/news/2014-15/st-josephs-brooklyn-joins-skyline-conference
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 10, 2014, 09:13:01 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-15)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
2nd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven
*Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status.

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on January 12, 2015, 07:37:20 PM
Just filing this here for future reference.  It's a longish piece I did on the program building efforts at Bryn Athyn and Wilson, with coach interviews.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2015/01/selling-the-vision
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2015, 01:13:31 PM
So teams leaving conferences to join already established conferences are eligible for Pool C selection but not the conference's Pool A since they just joined? I know Superior heads to the UMAC next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 15, 2015, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2015, 01:13:31 PM
So teams leaving conferences to join already established conferences are eligible for Pool C selection but not the conference's Pool A since they just joined? I know Superior heads to the UMAC next year.

They should be eligible for Pool A right away. I don't know why the conference would exclude them. There's no provisional period for switching conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on January 15, 2015, 01:39:28 PM
Right. The SCIAC made Chapman ineligible for the conference title when the Panthers first joined the conference, but that's not an NCAA rule.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2015, 02:29:10 PM
Thanks. I didn't think there was. Superior must be licking their chops. Everyone in the UMAC is under .500, with Bethany Lutheran,  Crown and Martin Luther a combined 2-33.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on May 25, 2015, 12:39:20 PM
It's a been a while since we've had conference shuffling news, but Merchant Marine is headed back to the port they left. The Mariners are going back to the Skyline in 2016-2017.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: kate on May 26, 2015, 10:12:53 AM
That's cool Gordon, "the port they left".  There's also, the grass isn't always greener, or in this case, the water's not always more blue.  Sorry, couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2015, 04:49:09 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 25, 2015, 12:39:20 PM
It's a been a while since we've had conference shuffling news, but Merchant Marine is headed back to the port they left. The Mariners are going back to the Skyline in 2016-2017.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference
Makes perfect sense.

Was the NEWMAC adding football a consideration in this decision?

Does that leave the LL with 7 football playing members and a late season open date?


More shuffling from Pool B to a Pool A conference...
QuoteSt. Joseph's (Bklyn.) will join the Skyline beginning in 2015-16.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
Bumping this and adding the new information.

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016 - (I don't have these confirmed yet, but this is if each advances as would be expected)
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
2nd year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
(Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status in 2014-15.)
*Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2015, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2015, 04:49:09 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 25, 2015, 12:39:20 PM
It's a been a while since we've had conference shuffling news, but Merchant Marine is headed back to the port they left. The Mariners are going back to the Skyline in 2016-2017.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference
Makes perfect sense.

Was the NEWMAC adding football a consideration in this decision?

Does that leave the LL with 7 football playing members and a late season open date?

The NEWMAC football news left the LL with five members, actually.
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2015/04/newmac-adds-football
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

What they need to do is join the South Eastern Association. They belong in the SEA, not the LAND or SKY.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

What they need to do is join the South Eastern Association. They belong in the SEA, not the LAND or SKY.

:-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on May 29, 2015, 05:54:51 PM
Ha! I liked it. +k
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 30, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 29, 2015, 05:54:51 PM
Ha! I liked it. +k

I did a +k too, but didn't want it to go to his head.  :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 02, 2015, 06:18:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

What they need to do is join the South Eastern Association. They belong in the SEA, not the LAND or SKY.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8818/18398645805_36582edcaf_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: hopefan on August 10, 2015, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
Bumping this and adding the new information.

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016 - (I don't have these confirmed yet, but this is if each advances as would be expected)
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
2nd year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
(Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status in 2014-15.)
*Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

Schedules are beginning to come out.. I see Berea is playing only 6 NCAA D3 games and the rest are USCAA... including having the year end USCAA tourney on their schedule.... Are they still a provisional D3 team?  Are there scheduling requirements of D3 provisionals?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 10, 2015, 04:43:32 PM
I am not aware of any scheduling requirements per se for provisionals unless they are in a conference and such that would dictate otherwise... though, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 17, 2015, 09:38:59 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Berea, Bryn Athyn, Illinois Tech, Penn College, McMurry (reclassifying), Iowa Wesleyan (not advanced to Year 3)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2015, 02:51:37 PM
Iowa Wesleyan was not advanced to Year 3 provisional status by the NCAA Membership Committee. I have updated the above chart. All others advanced as expected (including Illinois Tech and Alfred State who were held back last year).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on August 20, 2015, 04:56:38 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2015, 02:51:37 PM
Iowa Wesleyan was not advanced to Year 3 provisional status by the NCAA Membership Committee. I have updated the above chart. All others advanced as expected (including Illinois Tech and Alfred State who were held back last year).

Ironically, their Men's basketball team has come along nicely in its first two years in the SLIAC and will challenge for a top 4 spot in the conference this year... their lady's team already finished top 4, but could not participate in the conference tourney due to their provisional status.  Both teams were invited to the USCAA tourney last year....

From NCAA.org, here is the June Membership meeting Report dealing with the denial for advancement....interesting reading

Deferred advancement – Iowa Wesleyan College. The committee voted to
require Iowa Wesleyan College to repeat year two of the provisional
membership process. In reaching its decision, the committee noted that
the institution did not satisfy sports-sponsorship requirements in NCAA
Bylaw 20.11.3 (sports sponsorship). Specifically, the committee noted the
institution did not successfully sponsor the minimum requirement of five
women's sports, due to a deficiency in the sport of women's golf. In its
review, the committee determined that it received an incorrect report from
the institution indicating that all five women's sports were properly
sponsored, when in fact women's golf did not meet the minimum contest
and participant requirements for sponsorship.
The committee did not feel
that the incorrect reporting was intentional; however, in reaching its
decision to require a repeat year in the process, the committee noted an
apparent general lack of knowledge within the athletics department
regarding the failure to meet sports-sponsorship requirements.
The
committee noted that the women's golf playing and practice season
concluded early (April 7) without the sport being properly sponsored and
that with proper tracking, the institution could have realized its
shortcoming and had sufficient time to correct the deficiency. The
committee also noted that there was information on the institution's
website indicating that the team had originally scheduled an additional
tournament on April 25-26; however, Iowa Wesleyan did not participate in
that event and did not explain why the institution did not participate.
Finally, there were no men's or women's golf schedules provided for the
upcoming year, as were required in the report. The Membership
Committee continues to see sports-sponsorship concerns as a recurring
issue for several active Division III institutions. As such the committee
has consistently required institutions failing to meet minimum sportssponsorship
requirements during their provisional/reclassifying process to
repeat a year. The committee also feels strongly that institutions going
through the provisional membership process should be unusually attentive
to all requirements and report details.


Their schedule concluded April 7?  Heck when did it start?   There was probably still snow on the course on April 7... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2015, 07:35:56 PM
That June report also indicates that Iowa Wesleyan had submitted a waiver to skip a year of the provisional process. Not only was that denied, they were not advanced at all. Double whammy!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2015, 10:14:36 PM
Have just seen a chart that lists McMurry as currently in reclassifying Year Two, on track for active membership in the fall of 2018.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 08, 2015, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2015, 10:14:36 PM
Have just seen a chart that lists McMurry as currently in reclassifying Year Two, on track for active membership in the fall of 2018.

Thanks. It looks like they did not submit a waiver request to advance an extra year (there was no reference to one in the membership committee meeting report), though I'm not sure if that typically happens after year two is complete.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 08, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Right -- I think it's premature of them to ask that now, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2015, 11:02:38 PM
I have confirmed that McMurry is in year 2 of Reclassifying. In fact, there are only 10 scholarship players remaining on the football team.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 08, 2015, 11:27:37 PM
A day late with the confirmation. :) You should ask if they will apply for a waiver.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2015, 03:26:25 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 08, 2015, 11:27:37 PM
A day late with the confirmation. :) You should ask if they will apply for a waiver.
I would love for President Sandra Harper and AD Sam Ferguson to pull off a re-classification effort that would result in a successful waiver.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on December 13, 2015, 06:13:33 PM
For future reference, the College of St. Elizabeth in New Jersey will add men's basketball in 2016-2017.

http://cseathletics.com/news/2015/11/24/ncaa-gives-mens-sports-official-go-ahead.aspx

I don't see any mention of a conference affiliation but they play in the NEAC for all other sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Berea, Bryn Athyn, Illinois Tech, Penn College, McMurry (reclassifying), Iowa Wesleyan (not advanced to Year 3)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (likely NEAC)

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2015, 05:31:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)

I'm four months late, but, still:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview1%2F1363168%2Fthree-amigos-salute-you-o.gif&hash=bf3b9781fcbab879b31ddfba1ab6560b5b520287)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on May 10, 2016, 10:59:38 PM
Here's a new one for the list...

http://d3sports.com/notables/2016/05/usa-south-expansion
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2016-17
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 03, 2016, 12:15:31 PM
Updated provisional pipeline for 2016-17

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (likely NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: D3HoopJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:46:35 PM
I read an article the other day regarding the GNAC conference.......

2017-2018 - Regis College will be joining the GNAC

2018-2019 - Colby Sawyer will be a new member as well

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 11, 2016, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: D3HoopJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:46:35 PM
I read an article the other day regarding the GNAC conference.......

2017-2018 - Regis College will be joining the GNAC

2018-2019 - Colby Sawyer will be a new member as well

http://www.thegnac.com/news/15-16/160609_GNAC_ColbySawyer-Regis

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 14, 2016, 05:52:10 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 11, 2016, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: D3HoopJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:46:35 PM
I read an article the other day regarding the GNAC conference.......

2017-2018 - Regis College will be joining the GNAC

2018-2019 - Colby Sawyer will be a new member as well

http://www.thegnac.com/news/15-16/160609_GNAC_ColbySawyer-Regis

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
+1! for a great 4000th post!   :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 04:32:50 PM
I see that Finlandia is playing a complete home and away UMAC schedule in 2016-17.... would seem to point to joining the conference, but haven't seen any notice...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 05, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2016, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on September 05, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Thanks husker. +1!

Yeah, Duluth/Superior.

Ashland Wi TO Hancock MI 148 miles, 2 hours 30 to 45 mins, and none of it interstate?

That travel partner is harder than Howard Payne (Brownwood TX) and Sul Ross State (Alpine TX) 337 miles, roughly 5 hours.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 05, 2016, 06:50:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2016, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on September 05, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Thanks husker. +1!

Yeah, Duluth/Superior.

Ashland Wi TO Hancock MI 148 miles, 2 hours 30 to 45 mins, and none of it interstate?

That travel partner is harder than Howard Payne (Brownwood TX) and Sul Ross State (Alpine TX) 337 miles, roughly 5 hours.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2016, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on September 05, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 PM
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Thanks husker. +1!

Yeah, Duluth/Superior.

Ashland Wi TO Hancock MI 148 miles, 2 hours 30 to 45 mins, and none of it interstate?

That travel partner is harder than Howard Payne (Brownwood TX) and Sul Ross State (Alpine TX) 337 miles, roughly 5 hours.

That's two hours and 30-45 minutes if the roads are good. On the shores of Lake Superior in November, December, January, and February, favorable road conditions are certainly not a given.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on September 07, 2016, 02:37:00 PM
So if you're adding Finlandia to the complete UMAC schedule, why not just make them affiliate members in basketball?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 07, 2016, 03:39:30 PM
I can't think of too many instances where someone has basically played the conference schedule but didn't get credit for it, except in cases where the school was in the transition process (i.e. Chapman in the SCIAC a couple years ago when they were ineligible for the AQ, provisional NCAA members who aren't eligible for the postseason).

Maybe this is a precursor to making them a conference member but they are taking it really slowly for some reason?  Maybe it's easier to let them do a test run before adding them?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 07, 2016, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on September 07, 2016, 02:37:00 PM
So if you're adding Finlandia to the complete UMAC schedule, why not just make them affiliate members in basketball?

Finlandia Women's basketball is a member of the Great South Althletic Conference despite being nearly as far north in the United States as one could be. And despite not playing any conference members in the regular season.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/ec/05/a2ec05de0abab0552781d1cc63085f42.jpg)

It does seem like Finlandia would like to be part of the UMAC but the UMAC only wants to use them while it's convenient.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 07, 2016, 03:43:40 PM
Maine Presque Isle is another GSAC member and they used to have a great slogan (maybe still do) -- North of ordinary.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 07, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
That slogan is better than the one suggested by many Maine natives, which is, "the road to UMPI is long and bumpy."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on September 08, 2016, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on September 07, 2016, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on September 07, 2016, 02:37:00 PM
So if you're adding Finlandia to the complete UMAC schedule, why not just make them affiliate members in basketball?

Finlandia Women's basketball is a member of the Great South Althletic Conference despite being nearly as far north in the United States as one could be. And despite not playing any conference members in the regular season.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/ec/05/a2ec05de0abab0552781d1cc63085f42.jpg)

It does seem like Finlandia would like to be part of the UMAC but the UMAC only wants to use them while it's convenient.

You need to re-write your post in the past-tense. The GSAC has folded.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 12:40:23 PM
The GSAC has not folded. It still exists for women's colleges. Barely exists, but it exists.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ADL70 on September 09, 2016, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on September 07, 2016, 03:43:40 PM
Maine Presque Isle is another GSAC member and they used to have a great slogan (maybe still do) -- North of ordinary.

I found a golf ball with UMPI Owls logo on golf course in Georgetown Texas a few months back
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2016, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: ADL70 on September 09, 2016, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on September 07, 2016, 03:43:40 PM
Maine Presque Isle is another GSAC member and they used to have a great slogan (maybe still do) -- North of ordinary.

I found a golf ball with UMPI Owls logo on golf course in Georgetown Texas a few months back
That post needs to go on the T-shirt and Decal Board (if you did not already put it there).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 04:44:49 PM
That is a very lost golf ball... haha.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 09, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 04:44:49 PM
That is a very lost golf ball... haha.

It was probably sent there by this guy:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjaredtendler.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fdalai_lama.jpg&hash=540c842713eb5c2e4caec896e0930608c303a5b0)

Big hitter, the Lama.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 10, 2016, 01:17:55 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 12:40:23 PM
The GSAC has not folded. It still exists for women's colleges. Barely exists, but it exists.

No, I believe Just Bill is correct here. No updates to the GSAC site this season, while the former core members are playing in the USA South.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: magicman on September 10, 2016, 11:40:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 09, 2016, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 04:44:49 PM
That is a very lost golf ball... haha.

It was probably sent there by this guy:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjaredtendler.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fdalai_lama.jpg&hash=540c842713eb5c2e4caec896e0930608c303a5b0)

Big hitter, the Lama.

Says Carl but I'd have to see him tee it up to believe it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 12:42:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 10, 2016, 01:17:55 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 12:40:23 PM
The GSAC has not folded. It still exists for women's colleges. Barely exists, but it exists.

No, I believe Just Bill is correct here. No updates to the GSAC site this season, while the former core members are playing in the USA South.

I went through a number of the GSAC school sites who still claim to be playing in the GSAC and have the conference listed on their websites. I realize their website hasn't been updated, but considering how often turnover, especially at a small conference, can affect that... I didn't take any stock in it.

That said, I also found a few with this site listed: http://www.d3independents.org/landing/index

Looking into it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 12:53:28 PM
I sent an email to headquarters, but researched in the meantime... I went to the NCAA master list online and the conference isn't listed at all under any school. But to make matters confusing, Wesleyan College in Georgia isn't listed on the site, either. Nor is Salem College. Might be the transitional stuff, but still... confusing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 09:52:11 PM
FYI - I checked with Indy... the GSAC informed them this past Spring they would not be in existence this academic year.

Down goes GSAC... down goes GSAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on September 13, 2016, 09:54:13 AM
So does that mean another Pool C bid opened up for the ladies?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on September 13, 2016, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 09:52:11 PM
FYI - I checked with Indy... the GSAC informed them this past Spring they would not be in existence this academic year.

Down goes GSAC... down goes GSAC.

Bill 1, Dave 0.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 13, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
Didn't realize it was a contest, but if it is... am I allowed to include all the info I have been supplying on Twitter this off season? LOL

This is like my four year old daughter who tells my seven year old son she "won" only when she actually won or shortly after saying she wasn't playing. She never plays unless she wins LOL.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2016, 03:28:00 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 13, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
Didn't realize it was a contest, but if it is... am I allowed to include all the info I have been supplying on Twitter this off season? LOL

This is like my four year old daughter who tells my seven year old son she "won" only when she actually won or shortly after saying she wasn't playing. She never plays unless she wins LOL.
She is learning quickly!  LOL
+1! Dad. It is only beginning.   ::) 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 13, 2016, 09:56:27 PM
It's probably not wise to compare a man to a four-year-old girl when his legal representation consists of small, extraordinarily vicious predators. (http://mentalfloss.com/article/64193/7-fierce-facts-about-weasels)

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alaskannature.com%2Fweasels.jpg&hash=e6082ca79a76b24bb70cd29d666a6c4329ca723e)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AppletonRocks on September 19, 2016, 10:32:35 AM
Will Carroll dominate CCIW football as a precursor to their dominance in MBB?   ??? ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 20, 2016, 11:11:23 AM
Shifting this forward. In the process of entering schedules, I was also reminded that New Rochelle now plays men's hoops, presumably as an Independent with membership in the USCAA's Hudson Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. They seem to be a good fit for the Skyline in terms of geography and similar institutions.

http://www.cnrathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

I'll create a page for them at some point. It would be great if the New School joined Division III someday given its excellent mascot.

QuoteConference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 20, 2016, 12:35:59 PM
Thanks Gordon!

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
New Rochelle Rochelle adds Men's Basketball (IND)
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2016, 02:05:33 PM
So Nebraska Wesleyan will be eligible for IIAC and NCAA post season this season, I presume?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2016, 04:36:58 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2016, 02:05:33 PM
So Nebraska Wesleyan will be eligible for IIAC and NCAA post season this season, I presume?

They're a full NCAA member and have been all along, so unless the IIAC inserted a Chapman Clause making them ineligible for the conference title, they should be eligible for both.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 20, 2016, 06:51:23 PM
Neb Wes is not only a full member of D3, they were runner-up in the 1997 men's national basketball tourney!  It's easy to forget their D3 membership, because geography has dictated they go more with their (former) NAIA dual membership.

My reading of the IIAC boards suggests that everyone there at least assumes that NWC is eligible for the titles.  Whether or not anyone there knows for sure, I can't say.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 21, 2016, 08:53:48 AM
I knew Nebraska Wesleyan University  ???  ;D  ;) had duel membership.  I just wasn't sure about their eligibility because they were also NAIA and joining a conference that may have restrictions on new members. Thanks for the clarification! Bet the IIAC is glad Bardsley and Giesselmann graduated. They put up monster numbers last year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 21, 2016, 12:19:41 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 21, 2016, 08:53:48 AM
I knew Nebraska Wesleyan University  ???  ;D  ;) had duel membership.  I just wasn't sure about their eligibility because they were also NAIA and joining a conference that may have restrictions on new members. Thanks for the clarification! Bet the IIAC is glad Bardsley and Giesselmann graduated. They put up monster numbers last year.

They usually made a choice every May about whether they would be eligible for the DIII tournament... in recent years it usually was a "no," but there were some years earlier this century it was more "yes." I can't imagine they would want to enter the IIAC and not be eligible. They are making a bold decision to stick with Division III.

It should be noted, they didn't offer scholarships in the NAIA so they could maintain their Division III status, so they had less hurdles to get through than most in their "transition."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 21, 2016, 03:31:22 PM
Reminds me of when Point had duel affiliation in the 80s. They played NAIA without scholarships while conference foes like Whitewater played DIII.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 21, 2016, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 20, 2016, 06:51:23 PM
Neb Wes is not only a full member of D3, they were runner-up in the 1997 men's national basketball tourney!

Nebraska Wesleyan's participation in D3 goes back much, much further than that, Chuck. NWU was a charter member of D3, and the program has appeared in the D3 men's basketball tourney 14 times, the earliest being 1977 and the most recent in 2001. The Prairie Wolves (né Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four four times, finishing second once and third three times.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 21, 2016, 05:16:32 PM
The New Rochelle men's page is now created...

http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/New_Rochelle/Men/2016-17/index

Daniel Nigro, who was the last coach at Polytechnic before that school merged with NYU, is the first for the Blue Angels. Circle November 22nd on your calendar -- New Rochelle plays fellow first year St. Elizabeth and someone has to win!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 21, 2016, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on September 20, 2016, 11:11:23 AMIt would be great if the New School joined Division III someday given its excellent mascot.

I'd rank Narwhals as one of the top half-dozen nicknames in college sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 21, 2016, 11:58:17 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 21, 2016, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 20, 2016, 06:51:23 PM
Neb Wes is not only a full member of D3, they were runner-up in the 1997 men's national basketball tourney!

Nebraska Wesleyan's participation in D3 goes back much, much further than that, Chuck. NWU was a charter member of D3, and the program has appeared in the D3 men's basketball tourney 14 times, the earliest being 1977 and the most recent in 2001. The Prairie Wolves (né Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four four times, finishing second once and third three times.

Yeah, I'd forgotten some of the details you provided, but knew they were charter members and had had great bball success.  And I'm sure you know perfectly well why I mentioned only their highest finish! ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 22, 2016, 12:01:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 21, 2016, 11:36:43 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on September 20, 2016, 11:11:23 AMIt would be great if the New School joined Division III someday given its excellent mascot.

I'd rank Narwhals as one of the top half-dozen nicknames in college sports.

Agreed, though I don't think it can quite reach the level of Fighting Artichokes or Banana Slugs!

(Though a lot more creative than Titans or Vikings. ;))
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2016, 01:12:36 PM
So St. Elizabeth adds men's basketball and they are good to go for the NCAA tourney since the school and women's teams have been D3? Is there any provisional period for schools that add men's sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 10, 2016, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2016, 01:12:36 PM
So St. Elizabeth adds men's basketball and they are good to go for the NCAA tourney since the school and women's teams have been D3? Is there any provisional period for schools that add men's sports?

No provisional period; NCAA membership status exists at the school level.

So, since St. Elizabeth's was a full member when they were women's only, they're automatically full members now that they're adding men's teams.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2016, 04:39:08 PM
Same thing with New Rochelle?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 10, 2016, 08:36:40 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2016, 04:39:08 PM
Same thing with New Rochelle?

Yes.

Unless the entire department is not a fully-fledged member of Division III any sport added by a department is a full fledge member of that sport. No grace period. Again, those are only for entire departments transitioning into Division III. Of course, the exception would be if that program were in a new conference, there would be a wait until they got an AQ opportunity, but that is an entirely different topic.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2017, 07:45:25 AM


Here's my Around the Nation column from this week, about conference changes. http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/conference-shuffle-complexity
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on February 18, 2017, 01:11:27 AM
By the way, this happened earlier this week...

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2017/2/14/general-ncaa-d-iii-membership-committee-approves-new-multi-sport-conference.aspx?path=general
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 18, 2017, 02:34:39 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 18, 2017, 01:11:27 AM
By the way, this happened earlier this week...

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2017/2/14/general-ncaa-d-iii-membership-committee-approves-new-multi-sport-conference.aspx?path=general
Is this basically the new GSAC? Alfred St, SUNYIT, SUNY Canton, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge seem somewhat close with Maine-Presque Isle a bit out of the way... but then there's Finlandia and Mills who are in Michigan and California and don't seem to fit in at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2017, 04:16:21 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 18, 2017, 02:34:39 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 18, 2017, 01:11:27 AM
By the way, this happened earlier this week...

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2017/2/14/general-ncaa-d-iii-membership-committee-approves-new-multi-sport-conference.aspx?path=general
Is this basically the new GSAC? Alfred St, SUNYIT, SUNY Canton, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge seem somewhat close with Maine-Presque Isle a bit out of the way... but then there's Finlandia and Mills who are in Michigan and California and don't seem to fit in at all.

From what I gather, the plan is to start with seven to get the clock running on the automatic bid, but then hopefully become a little more regional as other teams either join d3 or leave their conferences.  I believe Finlandia is working towards UMAC membership anyway.  Without a Pool B bid (and we're two years away from getting one back anyway - longer now), teams are just trying to find access.

I don't believe there will be a required conference schedule, but the members will work to play two games against everybody if they can.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 05:17:53 PM

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2017, 05:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 05:17:53 PM

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Another school in the Mountain Time Zone? Maybe one day there will be a peninsula instead of islands :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 21, 2017, 06:31:58 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2017, 05:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 05:17:53 PM

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Another school in the Mountain Time Zone? Maybe one day there will be a peninsula instead of islands :)

It would be more of an isthmus between the West Coast and the rest of the country. Unfortunately Nevada has no possibilities unless UNLV or University of Nevada drop from FBS.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2017, 05:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 05:17:53 PM

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Another school in the Mountain Time Zone? Maybe one day there will be a peninsula instead of islands :)

It'll be easier for teams to head to CO for a double bill, though, the way they make pilgrimage to Whitworth/Whitman.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2017, 10:23:16 PM

Eastern Nazarene College announced today they'll be leaving the CCC for the NECC in the 2018-2019 season.  They're essentially replacing Daniel Webster, which is closing this summer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2017, 11:09:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2017, 10:23:16 PM

Eastern Nazarene College announced today they'll be leaving the CCC for the NECC in the 2018-2019 season.  They're essentially replacing Daniel Webster, which is closing this summer.

I'm pretty sure it would feel very weird to be a graduate of a school that no longer exists.  There is a state park near Peoria IL that I used to go to regularly - it is the campus (and surrounding grounds) of the short-lived Jubilee College.  It somehow felt almost haunted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2017, 08:00:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2017, 11:09:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2017, 10:23:16 PM

Eastern Nazarene College announced today they'll be leaving the CCC for the NECC in the 2018-2019 season.  They're essentially replacing Daniel Webster, which is closing this summer.

I'm pretty sure it would feel very weird to be a graduate of a school that no longer exists.  There is a state park near Peoria IL that I used to go to regularly - it is the campus (and surrounding grounds) of the short-lived Jubilee College.  It somehow felt almost haunted.

Technically it doesn't exist now; I'm pretty sure some other school's name will be on diplomas this spring.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 10, 2017, 08:29:41 AM
Bringing this forward for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNIT leaves the NEAC for the ACAA
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Looks like Saint Anselm's dropped out.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: iwumichigander on April 11, 2017, 09:16:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Saint Anselm has struggled on a number if issues outside of sports.  With the proliferation of DIII New England schools, getting in a "right matched" conference would be important.  There are several DIII within short distance of St Anselm but IMHO not necessarily a "right match" academically or philosophically.  More homework required
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on April 12, 2017, 12:26:59 AM
End of an era -- Rust leaves for the NAIA

http://m.naia.org/mobile/ViewArticle.dbml?atclid=211556713&DB_OEM_ID=27900&


Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 12:55:24 AM
I'm not a bit surprised. Perhaps it's for the best. It's hard to be an indie, and Rust is not in a part of the country in which there are a lot of D3 conference options. Plus, nearby D3 competition isn't exactly thick on the ground for a school located in northern Mississippi.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2017, 12:16:32 PM
Only surprise is that it took this long.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: joehakes on April 12, 2017, 02:41:28 PM
The NAIA is doing some fishing among DIIIs for members.  We received an information packet with a letter that was somewhat customized to Illinois Tech telling us that there was an NAIA conference in our area.  Since we were a member of that conference for quite a few years, that did not come as breaking news.  The letter said that several NCAA schools were applying to the NAIA.  That part did not specify that they were DIIIs, but just a general statement.  I have not heard of any schools going that direction.  Some of the statistics that they sent were not the most forthcoming, IMHO.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 04:40:12 PM
The NAIA press release regarding Rust to which Gordon linked indicated that D2 Panhandle State is also moving to NAIA. So I guess that the NAIA's definition of several is "two".

Apropos of nothing, I love Panhandle State's logo:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fopsuaggies.com%2Fimages%2Flogos%2FOPSU.png&hash=3853bc88cb9b68359b4e62145058eabc1dc8fbf9)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on April 12, 2017, 04:55:02 PM
I hope Panhandle State has a business degree. That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 04:59:38 PM
(https://www.texasobserver.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/201512-panhandler-sign-burkhart-flickr-360x270.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 05:22:21 PM
I wonder if OPSU added "Oklahoma" to the school's name in 1967 to aid people who are unfamiliar with the geographical salient and historical region called the Oklahoma Panhandle, or if it was to discourage jokes about panhandling.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 12, 2017, 08:40:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 04:40:12 PM
The NAIA press release regarding Rust to which Gordon linked indicated that D2 Panhandle State is also moving to NAIA. So I guess that the NAIA's definition of several is "two".

Apropos of nothing, I love Panhandle State's logo:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fopsuaggies.com%2Fimages%2Flogos%2FOPSU.png&hash=3853bc88cb9b68359b4e62145058eabc1dc8fbf9)

So, is that a reflection of NAIA English departments, or NAIA math departments? ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2017, 01:19:27 AM
Yes. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2017, 12:13:29 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on April 11, 2017, 09:16:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Saint Anselm has struggled on a number if issues outside of sports.  With the proliferation of DIII New England schools, getting in a "right matched" conference would be important.  There are several DIII within short distance of St Anselm but IMHO not necessarily a "right match" academically or philosophically.  More homework required

Saint Anselm actually sunk it's own ship when it came to "right match" when they announced their intent to leave for DIII. In their original statement, they mentioned at the end how they were very similar to a number of schools and basically named half the NEWMAC. The original plan was apparently to join the NEWMAC. I was told it was basically a "rubber stamp" thing and St. A would be int the NEWMAC pretty soon. St. A's announcement was in December, I believe, and the official vote was coming I believe in May (or June). However, there was quite a bit of displeasure with the fact St. A basically called out half the NEWMAC as being the type of schools it could see itself aligning with and things went sideways. St. A was actually asked to remove the names of the schools on their press release and later that day (or the next day) that reference was gone. Then when the vote came in the NEWMAC, it was overwhelmingly a "no." That caught a few people by surprise including St. A. It then left them rudderless and without sails.

So St. A had a plan... but they screwed it up. Now they are left with nothing. If you look around New England, basically the NESCAC and NEWMAC are the best fits. The NEWMAC doesn't want them anymore and the NESCAC isn't going to look their way. The CCC is around, but they aren't a good fit. Almost like Goldilocks and the three bears except ... as several people have put it to me: St. A is maybe a little "low" for the NESCAC, they are a pretty good, but not great fit for the NEWMAC, and they are a little too "high" in terms of standards for the CCC. The NESCAC isn't going to look at them, the NEWMAC already shunned them, and the CCC isn't going to want them (and honestly, St. A doesn't want to be in the CCC). That leaves St. A no one to dance with unless they want to extend their travel. They aren't a good fight at all for the NAC, NEAC, and the rest. They would have to look at the Empire 8 and Liberty for any choice (and I mentioned that to a few Liberty folk while they were desperate to find another football partner), but that is a long distance and those conferences aren't necessarily interested either.

As I said, I think they will look to other DIIs and see if more of them want to go to DIII and make a conference of that group (maybe with some DIIIs defecting their conferences; things are rather fluid in New England right now). For hockey reasons, especially, I think this could happen. I also know many are frustrated with the conference in DIII up there and thus one of the reasons St. A was leaving as well. It will take some time, but keep an eye on that group.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: iwumichigander on April 17, 2017, 05:59:22 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2017, 12:13:29 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on April 11, 2017, 09:16:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Saint Anselm has struggled on a number if issues outside of sports.  With the proliferation of DIII New England schools, getting in a "right matched" conference would be important.  There are several DIII within short distance of St Anselm but IMHO not necessarily a "right match" academically or philosophically.  More homework required

Saint Anselm actually sunk it's own ship when it came to "right match" when they announced their intent to leave for DIII. In their original statement, they mentioned at the end how they were very similar to a number of schools and basically named half the NEWMAC. The original plan was apparently to join the NEWMAC. I was told it was basically a "rubber stamp" thing and St. A would be int the NEWMAC pretty soon. St. A's announcement was in December, I believe, and the official vote was coming I believe in May (or June). However, there was quite a bit of displeasure with the fact St. A basically called out half the NEWMAC as being the type of schools it could see itself aligning with and things went sideways. St. A was actually asked to remove the names of the schools on their press release and later that day (or the next day) that reference was gone. Then when the vote came in the NEWMAC, it was overwhelmingly a "no." That caught a few people by surprise including St. A. It then left them rudderless and without sails.

So St. A had a plan... but they screwed it up. Now they are left with nothing. If you look around New England, basically the NESCAC and NEWMAC are the best fits. The NEWMAC doesn't want them anymore and the NESCAC isn't going to look their way. The CCC is around, but they aren't a good fit. Almost like Goldilocks and the three bears except ... as several people have put it to me: St. A is maybe a little "low" for the NESCAC, they are a pretty good, but not great fit for the NEWMAC, and they are a little too "high" in terms of standards for the CCC. The NESCAC isn't going to look at them, the NEWMAC already shunned them, and the CCC isn't going to want them (and honestly, St. A doesn't want to be in the CCC). That leaves St. A no one to dance with unless they want to extend their travel. They aren't a good fight at all for the NAC, NEAC, and the rest. They would have to look at the Empire 8 and Liberty for any choice (and I mentioned that to a few Liberty folk while they were desperate to find another football partner), but that is a long distance and those conferences aren't necessarily interested either.

As I said, I think they will look to other DIIs and see if more of them want to go to DIII and make a conference of that group (maybe with some DIIIs defecting their conferences; things are rather fluid in New England right now). For hockey reasons, especially, I think this could happen. I also know many are frustrated with the conference in DIII up there and thus one of the reasons St. A was leaving as well. It will take some time, but keep an eye on that group.
Oh, I agree with your analysis.  NEWMAC was likely the best fit.  Creating another conference would be a big task.  And the "New Englander" hard headedness in terms of whatever they did or did not do with the NEWMAC will make it very difficult for St. A to make a change now.
If I learned one or two thing will living there was 1) getting accepted to make a change not easy, 2) despite differences between groups like conferences, all of them will find out what happened and band together.  It is the "we have done it this way for more than two hundred years so why should we change now" mentality.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2017, 01:20:51 PM
Future shuffling:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/05/illinois-tech-to-nacc
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 03, 2017, 02:39:14 PM
Curious if the NACC will move to a 2-division conference (again). I recall when they had a short-lived 2-division conference where some guy came up with a brilliant idea to shuffle team(s) in and out of divisions (odd number of tes/rivalries?)  :P  ;D  :D They'll have an even number of teams now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2017, 03:22:50 PM
They won't for long. Benedictine is moving to D2 in a couple of years. The demise of St. Joseph's (IN) opens up a spot in the GLVC that Benedictine will probably fill.

The divisional shuffle also had to do with the imbalance between Illinois schools and Wisconsin schools, and with the fact that the closest Wisconsin schools to the cluster of four suburban Chicagoland NACC members were themselves a cluster of three Milwaukee-area schools.

The NACC is always going to be off-kilter as long as it contains Alverno, a women's college. Either the men will have an odd number or the women will have an odd number. I'm not sure why the league doesn't also add Mount Mary, a women's college located in Milwaukee that's been a D3 independent for years, as another member, so that the men and women won't be off-kilter anymore in the odd-and-even department. Then again, since once Benedictine moves to D2 the league will be back to an odd number of co-ed institutions, adding Mount Mary wouldn't help for scheduling purposes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2017, 04:31:31 PM
Hopefully Mount Mary continues to field all of its teams every year. That's a good next step for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on May 03, 2017, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 03, 2017, 02:39:14 PM
Curious if the NACC will move to a 2-division conference (again). I recall when they had a short-lived 2-division conference where some guy came up with a brilliant idea to shuffle team(s) in and out of divisions (odd number of tes/rivalries?)  :P  ;D  :D They'll have an even number of teams now.

One way or another, because of Alverno, the NACC is always dealing with odd number of teams in some sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 03, 2017, 05:38:38 PM
I was just referring to men's basketball, unless I'm on the wrong board.  ???  ;D  :)  :D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2017, 07:05:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2017, 04:31:31 PM
Hopefully Mount Mary continues to field all of its teams every year. That's a good next step for them.

Yeah, I have to admit that Mount Mary is notorious for fielding teams that barely have enough players. Sometimes the Blue Angels can't even cover the minimum. Once they showed up at NPU with only eight women's soccer players, and, since the game couldn't be rescheduled, this happened. (http://resources.northpark.edu/athletics/WomensSoccer/2009/10-23ws.htm)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 04, 2017, 11:54:58 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2017, 03:22:50 PM
They won't for long. Benedictine is moving to D2 in a couple of years. The demise of St. Joseph's (IN) opens up a spot in the GLVC that Benedictine will probably fill.

The divisional shuffle also had to do with the imbalance between Illinois schools and Wisconsin schools, and with the fact that the closest Wisconsin schools to the cluster of four suburban Chicagoland NACC members were themselves a cluster of three Milwaukee-area schools.

The NACC is always going to be off-kilter as long as it contains Alverno, a women's college. Either the men will have an odd number or the women will have an odd number. I'm not sure why the league doesn't also add Mount Mary, a women's college located in Milwaukee that's been a D3 independent for years, as another member, so that the men and women won't be off-kilter anymore in the odd-and-even department. Then again, since once Benedictine moves to D2 the league will be back to an odd number of co-ed institutions, adding Mount Mary wouldn't help for scheduling purposes.

I have heard this report about moving to DII as well, however my sources say they are exploring it, but not necessarily pursuing it. Exploring may be to just to make some alums or others happy... but that the school is very familiar with other DIIIs who made the leap to DII and regretted it. McMurry is one example. Lincoln is an example of how it has fallen apart. I wouldn't count my chickens on Benedictine moving to DII just yet.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 04, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
My sources, which include Benedictine insiders who know everybody involved, as well as people who are dealing with NACC leadership, tell me that it's much, much farther along than mere exploration -- and that the instigation is coming from the administration rather than from the alumni base.

Benedictine is neither McMurry nor Lincoln. It's a very different institution in a very different location. That's not to say that moving to D2 would be all beer and skittles for the Bennies. (I'm not a big proponent of D2, although I recognize its usefulness, and I'm skeptical of the benefits for schools at that level that, like Benedictine, better reflect the usual small-private-liberal-arts-college model of D3 than the typical mid-sized-state-university model of D2.) I'm just saying that comparing BU to schools that have sharply contrasting profiles and locations has a certain apples-and-oranges aspect to it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 04, 2017, 02:47:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 04, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
My sources, which include Benedictine insiders who know everybody involved, as well as people who are dealing with NACC leadership, tell me that it's much, much farther along than mere exploration -- and that the instigation is coming from the administration rather than from the alumni base.

Benedictine is neither McMurry nor Lincoln. It's a very different institution in a very different location. That's not to say that moving to D2 would be all beer and skittles for the Bennies. (I'm not a big proponent of D2, although I recognize its usefulness, and I'm skeptical of the benefits for schools at that level that, like Benedictine, better reflect the usual small-private-liberal-arts-college model of D3 than the typical mid-sized-state-university model of D2.) I'm just saying that comparing BU to schools that have sharply contrasting profiles and locations has a certain apples-and-oranges aspect to it.

Well technically it can't be any further along than exploration in the eyes of the NCAA. Remember, this is not a quick process. It will years for this to move forward. Moving up is slower than moving down, for the most part.

And while I know Benedictine is not McMurry or Lincoln, (a) those were just two examples I had off the top of my head and (b) they still tell a story. There are several others I know have looked at moving up (though for some, D1 was or is the ultimate goal) and they have either gone no where or gotten stuck in the mud later on. While I don't believe Benedictine is taking this lightly and I know full well there is a strong push on campus... that doesn't necessarily mean it is going to happen in the long run. Just the added numbers to the budget per scholarships can derail things quickly. Rowan was putting pieces in place for several years with a move coming any year... I can't tell you how much that move has clearly stalled out despite what many said was a sure thing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 04, 2017, 03:26:07 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 04, 2017, 02:47:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 04, 2017, 02:44:26 PM
My sources, which include Benedictine insiders who know everybody involved, as well as people who are dealing with NACC leadership, tell me that it's much, much farther along than mere exploration -- and that the instigation is coming from the administration rather than from the alumni base.

Benedictine is neither McMurry nor Lincoln. It's a very different institution in a very different location. That's not to say that moving to D2 would be all beer and skittles for the Bennies. (I'm not a big proponent of D2, although I recognize its usefulness, and I'm skeptical of the benefits for schools at that level that, like Benedictine, better reflect the usual small-private-liberal-arts-college model of D3 than the typical mid-sized-state-university model of D2.) I'm just saying that comparing BU to schools that have sharply contrasting profiles and locations has a certain apples-and-oranges aspect to it.

Well technically it can't be any further along than exploration in the eyes of the NCAA. Remember, this is not a quick process. It will years for this to move forward. Moving up is slower than moving down, for the most part.

Yep. Very true.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 04, 2017, 02:47:48 PMAnd while I know Benedictine is not McMurry or Lincoln, (a) those were just two examples I had off the top of my head and (b) they still tell a story. There are several others I know have looked at moving up (though for some, D1 was or is the ultimate goal) and they have either gone no where or gotten stuck in the mud later on. While I don't believe Benedictine is taking this lightly and I know full well there is a strong push on campus... that doesn't necessarily mean it is going to happen in the long run. Just the added numbers to the budget per scholarships can derail things quickly. Rowan was putting pieces in place for several years with a move coming any year... I can't tell you how much that move has clearly stalled out despite what many said was a sure thing.

Nothing is for certain in a situation like divisional reclassification in which the ultimate decision is not made by the university itself. But I don't foresee any impediments coming from D2, especially if the GLVC invites Benedictine to take the spot in its membership roll being vacated by St. Joseph's (IN) (which will close its doors for good this month). And BU does seem to have the institutional pieces in place -- location, facilities, lack of nearby competition for D2-level recruits, and a willing new league -- to make the move feasible and possibly even advantageous. I think that this is widely recognized around the school, which is why everybody I know who has talked about it does so as if it's already a done deal.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 04, 2017, 03:33:50 PM
Wait, let's go back to beer and skittles. Is that still an option? :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 04, 2017, 04:11:01 PM
Sorry. I have another shuffle to drop in here:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/05/castleton-joining-little-east
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 14, 2017, 06:30:51 AM
Going back to the ACAA. I find it odd that Finlandia is a part of this. As mentioned, they are trying to get into the UMAC and their men's basketball schedule was already integrated into the conference schedule. Was there a bump in Finlandia's road to the UMAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 14, 2017, 11:01:08 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 14, 2017, 06:30:51 AM
Going back to the ACAA. I find it odd that Finlandia is a part of this. As mentioned, they are trying to get into the UMAC and their men's basketball schedule was already integrated into the conference schedule. Was there a bump in Finlandia's road to the UMAC?

If I'm Finlandia, I'm making sure I have multiple baskets. There is no guarantee the UMAC actually wants Finlandia, after all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 15, 2017, 08:05:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 14, 2017, 11:01:08 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 14, 2017, 06:30:51 AM
Going back to the ACAA. I find it odd that Finlandia is a part of this. As mentioned, they are trying to get into the UMAC and their men's basketball schedule was already integrated into the conference schedule. Was there a bump in Finlandia's road to the UMAC?

If I'm Finlandia, I'm making sure I have multiple baskets. There is no guarantee the UMAC actually wants Finlandia, after all.

From what I hear, every member of the ACAA is free to bolt if they get a better offer.  They're all trying to get into other conferences; the ACAA is just a way to cover their bases if they aren't successful.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 31, 2017, 02:22:21 PM
The PAC announced that Thomas More will be leaving the conference following the 2017-18 academic year.

http://pacathletics.org/news/2017/5/31/general-thomas-more-to-withdraw-from-pac.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 31, 2017, 02:37:19 PM
It's been a few pages so I'm bringing this forward again for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on May 31, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on May 31, 2017, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 31, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
HCAC would make the most sense geographically. An in conference Catholic rivalry with Mount St. Joseph?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on May 31, 2017, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 31, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
HCAC would make the most sense geographically. An in conference Catholic rivalry with Mount St. Joseph?

Not really... don't think the Heartland wants anything to do with TMC. The imbalance would probably be as severe if not more than the PAC imbalance. If anything, maybe the OAC or NCAC... highly doubt there are any other suiters.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on May 31, 2017, 03:59:24 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on May 31, 2017, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 31, 2017, 02:52:02 PM
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
HCAC would make the most sense geographically. An in conference Catholic rivalry with Mount St. Joseph?

Not really... don't think the Heartland wants anything to do with TMC. The imbalance would probably be as severe if not more than the PAC imbalance. If anything, maybe the OAC or NCAC... highly doubt there are any other suiters.

I said geographically. I agree with you, competitively, the OAC or NCAC make more sense.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2017, 06:55:11 PM
One has to assume that Thomas More thought this out before exiting the PAC, but it's hard to fathom the school's motives. When a school moves from one conference to another, the exit is typically announced simultaneously with the entrance. All we got here, from both the PAC and Thomas More, was the exit. There wasn't even an advance notice included in the TMC press release that a follow-up announcement was imminent. Perhaps I'm just overthinking this, but it doesn't strike me as logical that TMC would simply leap off of a cliff without a parachute -- particularly since TMC isn't located in D3-saturated New England. There's a limited number of conference options available for a D3 school in northern Kentucky.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 09:11:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2017, 06:55:11 PM
One has to assume that Thomas More thought this out before exiting the PAC, but it's hard to fathom the school's motives. When a school moves from one conference to another, the exit is typically announced simultaneously with the entrance. All we got here, from both the PAC and Thomas More, was the exit. There wasn't even an advance notice included in the TMC press release that a follow-up announcement was imminent. Perhaps I'm just overthinking this, but it doesn't strike me as logical that TMC would simply leap off of a cliff without a parachute -- particularly since TMC isn't located in D3-saturated New England. There's a limited number of conference options available for a D3 school in northern Kentucky.

I am working to be able to say more... but let's just say there wasn't exactly a plan in the works.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2017, 09:15:19 PM
(https://media.defense.gov/2013/Jan/15/2000083907/670/394/0/130115-F-JZ006-456.JPG)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on May 31, 2017, 10:02:19 PM
One location that hasn't been mentioned yet... what about the SAA? It's a bit far to Hendrix and Millsaps but Centre is only 2 hours away if they need a travel partner.

Another possibility is a potential change in division... although they could have just remained in the conference until they moved.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:04:11 AM

I'm pretty sure I saw an approved 2017-2018 provisional list somewhere.  I couldn't find it again today, but I think everyone has progressed on schedule for next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:12:24 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:04:11 AM

I'm pretty sure I saw an approved 2017-2018 provisional list somewhere.  I couldn't find it again today, but I think everyone has progressed on schedule for next year.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

This is a bit difficult to parse - it really only says "approved" for the schools moving into year one.  Not sure if there's a final approval for advancement coming this summer?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 01, 2017, 08:37:53 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:12:24 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:04:11 AM

I'm pretty sure I saw an approved 2017-2018 provisional list somewhere.  I couldn't find it again today, but I think everyone has progressed on schedule for next year.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

This is a bit difficult to parse - it really only says "approved" for the schools moving into year one.  Not sure if there's a final approval for advancement coming this summer?

Yeah, I was taking that to mean the exploratory schools were approved to begin the official process but that advancement for the schools already in the process had not been determined yet.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
Yeah... there is a little more time before these decisions on a year to year basis is made last I remembered on the process timing. That said, usually these progress forward accordingly. We only have hold ups once in awhile.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2017, 12:08:01 PM
Not sure where to put this, but also because you never know if they end up in a conference now that there is a future... glad to see UC Santa Cruz's student body approved a signficiant increase in their dues to help give their brethren a chance to keep playing sports and representing their college: http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/sports/20170531/uc-santa-cruz-athletics-saved-by-measure-68-passage
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 01, 2017, 12:16:29 PM
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.


Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on June 01, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.

Wilmington isn't much closer.  That said, at least you are driving through a city (Columbus) and driving to a city (Cincinnati).  By far the worst trip in the OAC is to ONU.  I always feel like I am driving forever, through no-man's land to get to . . . no man's land.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)
2. Big 10 with 14 teams
3. OAC (Ohio Athletic Conference) with (potentially) Thomas More, a school in Kentucky, not Ohio.
4. MVC (Missouri Valley Conference) with Loyola way too far north and east of the Missouri to even remotely be considered in its valley.
5. RMAC (Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference) with two South Dakota schools... although the Black Hills are mountainous, they are not Rocky Mountainous.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2017, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 07:03:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2017, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).

Double the reason for an Em Double I Double A!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 01, 2017, 10:47:33 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)
2. Big 10 with 14 teams
3. OAC (Ohio Athletic Conference) with (potentially) Thomas More, a school in Kentucky, not Ohio.
4. MVC (Missouri Valley Conference) with Loyola way too far north and east of the Missouri to even remotely be considered in its valley.
5. RMAC (Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference) with two South Dakota schools... although the Black Hills are mountainous, they are not Rocky Mountainous.

I believe technically the Missouri Valley is now down to one school actually within the Missouri Valley
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on June 01, 2017, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.

As a Concordia Cobber, I can tell you from a first hand perspective that one 8.5 hour round trip is very doable.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2017, 09:36:15 AM
The SAA is the D-3 athletic affiliation for members of the Association of Colleges of the South located east of Shreveport.  I doubt they would invite TMC.  Relatively speaking, Oglethorpe was a geographically convenient "place-holder" to become the 7th member necessary for Pool A. Berry has the endowment and panache to sit at the SAA table.

http://colleges.edu
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 02, 2017, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 07:03:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2017, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).

Double the reason for an Em Double I Double A!!

Both Angola and South Bend could be said to exist within the Michigan basin (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Michigan_Basin_2.jpg), so the conference name is correct geologically if not quite geographically.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 02, 2017, 12:35:48 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 02, 2017, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 07:03:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2017, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 PM

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).

Double the reason for an Em Double I Double A!!

Both Angola and South Bend could be said to exist within the Michigan basin (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Michigan_Basin_2.jpg), so the conference name is correct geologically if not quite geographically.

It's very fair to blame Ohio. Although we got the upper peninsula in the deal, South Bend and Angola are both very much north of where the border SHOULD be.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-vvcR8o1nNpM%2FTyH1zcjRrSI%2FAAAAAAAAArQ%2FaqnpVfpcOIU%2Fs1600%2FMap-Toledo%2BStrip.jpg&hash=56628dd3990a776fa0cbcb59ff0412fd3cafba36)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:54:56 AM
Quote from: sac on June 01, 2017, 12:16:29 PM
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.

BUT, they were aligned with Thomas More, Mount St. Joseph's, Defiance and Bluffton in the old AMC in the early 90s.  Association of Mideast Colleges. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 06, 2017, 01:50:41 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:54:56 AM
Quote from: sac on June 01, 2017, 12:16:29 PM
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.

BUT, they were aligned with Thomas More, Mount St. Joseph's, Defiance and Bluffton in the old AMC in the early 90s.  Association of Mideast Colleges.

Thank you, you have no idea how desperately I've been trying to remember that conferences name.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 06, 2017, 03:30:05 PM
Generation next for conference shuffle:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: sac on June 06, 2017, 01:50:41 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:54:56 AM
Quote from: sac on June 01, 2017, 12:16:29 PM
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.

BUT, they were aligned with Thomas More, Mount St. Joseph's, Defiance and Bluffton in the old AMC in the early 90s.  Association of Mideast Colleges.

Thank you, you have no idea how desperately I've been trying to remember that conferences name.

Don't mention it, I have a conference title ring from 1995 which reminds me of the name every time I see it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 08, 2017, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 31, 2017, 02:37:19 PM
It's been a few pages so I'm bringing this forward again for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNIT leaves the NEAC for the ACAA
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?

SUNYIT?  I tried to find confirmation of them leaving the NEAC and couldn't find it.  Is that correct?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 07:57:40 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 08, 2017, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 31, 2017, 02:37:19 PM
It's been a few pages so I'm bringing this forward again for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNIT leaves the NEAC for the ACAA
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?

SUNYIT?  I tried to find confirmation of them leaving the NEAC and couldn't find it.  Is that correct?

It is not correct.

I must have originally read "Alfred State SUNY College of Technology" as Alfred State and SUNYIT.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on June 09, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
AAAAH   the newly formed ACCA

Finlandia to Maine Presque Isle.... 1277 miles....   trough Sudbury, Ottawa, Montreal...   in the dead of winter.....  GREAT D3 Road Trip!!!!!   A MUST SEE
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 10:32:04 AM
Quote from: hopefan on June 09, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
AAAAH   the newly formed ACCA

Finlandia to Maine Presque Isle.... 1277 miles....   trough Sudbury, Ottawa, Montreal...   in the dead of winter.....  GREAT D3 Road Trip!!!!!   A MUST SEE

I found this interesting in the May 16 Championships Committee report.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/May2017DIIICC_May_16_Teleconference_20170602.pdf
QuoteIn-Region waiver, Finlandia University. The committee reviewed Finlandia’s in-region
waiver request for the 2017-18 academic year. Since submitting the waiver, Finlandia has
joined the newly formed American Collegiate Athletic Association. The committee will seek
additional information on how the new conference affiliation will impact scheduling before
reconsidering the request
.

I wonder if the joining the conference could hurt their chances of getting the waiver approved. My understanding of the ACAA is that they're forming it to get an AQ but won't necessarily play each other in the regular season (didn't the old GSAC do this in Women's hoops?). I wonder if the NCAA will frown upon that in some way.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 09, 2017, 11:24:54 AM
What's the purpose of an in-region waiver request? They don't like being in the Central?  ???  :P

So Finlandia could be in the newly formed ACCA but still play the UMAC schedule like they did last year?

Seems odd to be a conference member but not play a "conference schedule."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 09, 2017, 11:24:54 AM
What's the purpose of an in-region waiver request? They don't like being in the Central?  ???  :P

So Finlandia could be in the newly formed ACCA but still play the UMAC schedule like they did last year?

Seems odd to be a conference member but not play a "conference schedule."

I think the current rule is that teams have to ply 75% of their games vs. D3 in-region opponents to be eligible for the NCAA tournament. The waiver is there for teams that are geographically isolated to remain eligible even if they dip below that mark.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 09, 2017, 01:05:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 09, 2017, 11:24:54 AM
What's the purpose of an in-region waiver request? They don't like being in the Central?  ???  :P

So Finlandia could be in the newly formed ACCA but still play the UMAC schedule like they did last year?

Seems odd to be a conference member but not play a "conference schedule."

I think the current rule is that teams have to ply 75% of their games vs. D3 in-region opponents to be eligible for the NCAA tournament. The waiver is there for teams that are geographically isolated to remain eligible even if they dip below that mark.

Houghton/Hancock defines geographically isolated.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpix.epodunk.com%2FlocatorMaps%2Fmi%2FMI_21843.gif&hash=92f804b72b64c9938b2b640d5628fafd89dfdffe)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 10, 2017, 08:37:48 AM
I had a little time to look it up. It's actually 70%, but close enough. The in-region definition is pretty broad. There's the designated region (central), the geographic region (region 3), the 500-mile rule and the rule that all conference games are regional. I suppose the only reason they would have to file a waiver is because they played the UMAC conference schedule last season and most of those games were against Wisconsin and Minnesota foes, with Minnesota not being in their region, defined or geographical. I didn't measure out the distances from Minnesota-based umac opponents, but I guess a few will be more than 500 miles away.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 10, 2017, 09:46:46 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 10, 2017, 08:37:48 AM
I had a little time to look it up. It's actually 70%, but close enough. The in-region definition is pretty broad. There's the designated region (central), the geographic region (region 3), the 500-mile rule and the rule that all conference games are regional. I suppose the only reason they would have to file a waiver is because they played the UMAC conference schedule last season and most of those games were against Wisconsin and Minnesota foes, with Minnesota not being in their region, defined or geographical. I didn't measure out the distances from Minnesota-based umac opponents, but I guess a few will be more than 500 miles away.

Finlandia's problem is they're not actually in the conference.  Conference games count as in-region regardless of other factors, but without actual conference affiliation, only games within 500 miles (in Minnesota) count.  I haven't done the distance calculations, but there's a chance some UMAC games don't count.

I do know the ACAA is not playing a conference schedule.  Teams are encouraged to play home and aways, but it's not mandated.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 10, 2017, 12:54:27 PM
All of the Minnesota schools are within 500 miles for Finlandia, unless I missed one.  Finlandia can get into Northeastern Iowa.  For instance, Dubuque is 403 miles.   Coe, Dubuque, Loras, Luther and Wartburg all under 500 from the IIAC

Half of the Central Region is over 400 miles, many over 500 from Hancock.  Around Millikin University and South..
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 10, 2017, 12:59:14 PM
Finlandia is in the Central region, so the last part doesn't matter, if I'm correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 10, 2017, 11:40:35 PM
Correct but its a good frame of reference for how far they have to travel for potential in region games.  Just about everything on the central region ledger would be 200+ miles minimum.


Finlandia is technically in the same administrative region as the MIAA, so D3 schools in all of these states would also count for them:   Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.   

Again though, minimum 300 miles travel for any of those schools.  They aren't Colorado College, the SCIAC or NWC in isolation but they're close.   For those others its really the low number of available opponents, for Finlandia its really the distance they have to travel, they actually have plenty of schools that count as D3 just none that are what you might call close.  As pointed out, no built in conference schedule of "in-region" games either.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 27, 2017, 02:03:15 PM
Another change coming: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/odac-expands-to-add-ferrum

This could mean the CAC dodged another bullet and SVU and York remain in the conference... keeping it strong... for now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 29, 2017, 11:16:25 PM
And here's another. St. Joseph (Conn.) will field a men's team in the GNAC starting in 2018-19.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/06/st-joseph-adds-mens-sports
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on July 01, 2017, 12:47:02 AM
CSAC announced today(June 30) that the 5 teams mentioned in previous post are withdrawing officially.

http://csacsports.com/news/2017/6/30/general-csac-announces-membership-changes-for-2018-19.aspx?path=
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 01, 2017, 04:39:51 PM
Quote from: mailsy on July 01, 2017, 12:47:02 AM
CSAC announced today(June 30) that the 5 teams mentioned in previous post are withdrawing officially.

http://csacsports.com/news/2017/6/30/general-csac-announces-membership-changes-for-2018-19.aspx?path=

Finally someone confirmed what we reported several weeks ago...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 02, 2017, 12:42:16 PM
oh boy, I think this is my first post on these boards since something like 2010.

Anyway, I haven't seen this referenced anywhere on the boards or the front pages, but New England College to the NECC next year.

http://athletics.nec.edu/news/2017/7/28/neccannouncement.aspx

So them, Castleton and Colby-Sawyer are gone from the NAC next summer, putting their auto bids in jeopardy, but it gets more interesting. On the Facebook comment thread for that story, the New England College AD himself chimed in and says they left because those schools and Green Mountain are leaving at year's end, which I had not read anywhere and seems like valid scoop.

If true, the NAC falls below the 7 team threshold in every single sport. That seems...not great.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 02, 2017, 06:12:36 PM
able to answer my own question. Green Mountain announced today they are leaving D3 and the NCAA for the NAIA.

http://athletics.greenmtn.edu/sports/General/2017-18/GMC_Departs_NCAA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 03, 2017, 08:42:44 AM
Bumping this again. Thanks for the updates!

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 03, 2017, 12:21:21 PM
One to add after this upcoming academic year (so to go with your last group): Green Mountain is leaving the NCAA for the NAIA. Just reported yesterday. Basically an effort to get out before the NCAA either kicks them out or they have heavy sanctions on their program.

Also, UWSP will be removed from the NCAA due to investigations and brought back at a later day.

JUST KIDDING. I just couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 12, 2017, 09:17:38 PM
One more for this coming season -- First-year provisional Dean is joining the NECC

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2016-17/releases/20170725epmfzk
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 26, 2017, 04:35:22 AM
I just came across this..

In 2018 school year, Lyndon State and Johnson State are merging to become Northern Vermont University.... however each campus will retain its own athletic teams..

So what we're looking at will be name changes to Northern Vermont University-Lyndon and Northern Vermont University-Johnson.  The word State is no longer in the name....
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2016/11/29/coming-soon-northern-vermont-university-johnson-and-lyndon
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 26, 2017, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: hopefan on August 26, 2017, 04:35:22 AM
I just came across this..

In 2018 school year, Lyndon State and Johnson State are merging to become Northern Vermont University.... however each campus will retain its own athletic teams..

So what we're looking at will be name changes to Northern Vermont University-Lyndon and Northern Vermont University-Johnson.  The word State is no longer in the name....
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2016/11/29/coming-soon-northern-vermont-university-johnson-and-lyndon
What a wasted opportunity!

They could have become ....

Lyndon Johnson State University


:P
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 27, 2017, 12:49:06 AM
Ralph, you've done it again....+1   :o :o :o
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on August 31, 2017, 05:09:27 PM
Bryn Athyn and Wilson join the CSAC in 2018.

http://csacsports.com/news/2017/8/30/baseball-csac-adds-two-new-members-for-2018-19.aspx?path=
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 31, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 01, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 31, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.

Gallaudet basically has no choice but to be in the NEAC. The CAC won't take them back, the ODAC isn't going to be interested, the CSAC certainly isn't going to take them (outside of their footprint), the new conference isn't going to be interested (or they would have been in the conversations to begin with and I know they were not part of the conversations). Don't even consider the Centennial or the MAC. That leaves Gallaudet no options. None.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 02, 2017, 07:19:47 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 01, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 31, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.

Gallaudet basically has no choice but to be in the NEAC. The CAC won't take them back, the ODAC isn't going to be interested, the CSAC certainly isn't going to take them (outside of their footprint), the new conference isn't going to be interested (or they would have been in the conversations to begin with and I know they were not part of the conversations). Don't even consider the Centennial or the MAC. That leaves Gallaudet no options. None.

They wouldn't be too upset, though, if the NEAC footprint suddenly stops in northern PA somewhere.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 03, 2017, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 02, 2017, 07:19:47 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 01, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 31, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.

Gallaudet basically has no choice but to be in the NEAC. The CAC won't take them back, the ODAC isn't going to be interested, the CSAC certainly isn't going to take them (outside of their footprint), the new conference isn't going to be interested (or they would have been in the conversations to begin with and I know they were not part of the conversations). Don't even consider the Centennial or the MAC. That leaves Gallaudet no options. None.

They wouldn't be too upset, though, if the NEAC footprint suddenly stops in northern PA somewhere.

Maybe... because that footprint in between is getting smaller and smaller as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on October 18, 2017, 06:14:13 PM
Bumping this back to the top.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sept2017DIII_Prov_Reclass_Exp_Chart_20170920.pdf))
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on October 18, 2017, 11:17:18 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on October 18, 2017, 06:14:13 PM
Bumping this back to the top.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sept2017DIII_Prov_Reclass_Exp_Chart_20170920.pdf))
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Just to let you know, from my understanding, Arcadia is not leaving the MAC in the 2018-19 season. Waiting on new president to sign off on joining new conference and won't be leaving until 2019-20 season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2017, 12:10:37 AM
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 19, 2017, 01:38:32 AM
I heard they wanted to call themselves the NEW MAC.  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 19, 2017, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2017, 12:10:37 AM
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(

You don't want to come to the Green Bay area then. Everything is new up there. The NEW zoo, or Northeast Wisconsin Zoo and the N.E.W. Lutheran High, again, Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 19, 2017, 10:16:17 AM
Thanks for the updates and confirmations! This page is key for me to make sure my SOS spreadsheets are up to date.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sept2017DIII_Prov_Reclass_Exp_Chart_20170920.pdf))
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference -- pending approval, possibly (probably?) not till 2019-20
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 19, 2017, 01:09:51 PM
Quote from: mailsy on October 18, 2017, 11:17:18 PM
Just to let you know, from my understanding, Arcadia is not leaving the MAC in the 2018-19 season. Waiting on new president to sign off on joining new conference and won't be leaving until 2019-20 season.

From what I have been told, Arcadia has the door open to the new conference. They are waiting for their a new president to make it official - because basically the interim president apparently doesn't want to make any decisions; many schools have made these kinds of decisions in similar situations. Arcadia could conceivably join as soon as next year if they really wanted. They have no punishment, financial or otherwise, from the MAC for leaving and no timeline to do it in. The more this drags out, the more likely it will be another year until Arcadia joins, but I am still in the camp that they join the new conference next season.

As for the new conference: from what I've been told, still no commissioner, name, offices, etc. Thus a lot not getting done or having to be done by many others. I was told a few months ago that one of the school's presidents told his school they were waiting for the NCAA to approve the conference before announcing it - of course that came after we announced it first (I was told they were going to announce it by the end of that week, so we got our story buttoned up). Not sure why they have to wait for the NCAA. It isn't a requirement for what is basically a rubber stamp.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on October 20, 2017, 08:11:10 AM
Bob Jones University intends to apply for NCAA Division III membership...

http://www.bjubruins.com/news/2017/10/17/general-bruins-athletics-to-pursue-ncaa-d3-membership.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on October 20, 2017, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on October 19, 2017, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2017, 12:10:37 AM
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(

You don't want to come to the Green Bay area then. Everything is new up there. The NEW zoo, or Northeast Wisconsin Zoo and the N.E.W. Lutheran High, again, Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran High School.

Then there was the New Zoo Revue:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b8/4d/60/b84d60b62b1a6dc85200601448fb9693.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 20, 2017, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 20, 2017, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on October 19, 2017, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2017, 12:10:37 AM
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(

You don't want to come to the Green Bay area then. Everything is new up there. The NEW zoo, or Northeast Wisconsin Zoo and the N.E.W. Lutheran High, again, Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran High School.

Then there was the New Zoo Revue:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b8/4d/60/b84d60b62b1a6dc85200601448fb9693.jpg)

they should invite The New School Narwhals, on the short list with the Banana Slugs and Geoducks and such for best mascot in the world.

http://narwhalnation.com/gnarls-page/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 11:06:54 AM
As the conference turn... or as the schools turn... or as Division III turns...

NAC has announced they are adding two members starting next academic year. SUNY Canton and UMPI to join the NAC. Believe it or not, the easiest way for them to get to and from each other is go through Quebec (along with a small sliver of Ontario and New Brunswick). From my sleuthing, I believe it will be to Maine Maritime's benefit to travel through Canada as well to get to and from SUNY Canton.

And I don't believe the moves are done from there... conversations I am having with a number of people around the northeast (expanded) says more moves are afoot.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 01:00:10 PM
The NAC had to add at least one member or they would have gone on the clock to lose their auto bids by Fall 2020, I believe.

I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

Wheelock of the NECC is being folded into Boston University this spring with no athletic department. Pine Manor seems like it would be a smart pickup for that league.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 01:00:10 PM
The NAC had to add at least one member or they would have gone on the clock to lose their auto bids by Fall 2020, I believe.

I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

Wheelock of the NECC is being folded into Boston University this spring with no athletic department. Pine Manor seems like it would be a smart pickup for that league.

They weren't going to go on the clock in basketball as of yet. They were only going to lose three, right? I could be wrong. If they were losing three, they stayed at the magical number of seven. If they lost four, then yes the clock would start and they would have until until July 1, 2020 to fix that situation for at least basketball - sooner in other sports.

Pine Manor and others will be in the discussion I am sure. When January roles around and we see who else the division has allowed to start the transition process... that will be more telling to be honest. There are also some other pieces elsewhere that could be on the move - nothing confirmed - that could have an impact on a lot of things from Virginia to Maine.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 01:00:10 PM
The NAC had to add at least one member or they would have gone on the clock to lose their auto bids by Fall 2020, I believe.

I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

Wheelock of the NECC is being folded into Boston University this spring with no athletic department. Pine Manor seems like it would be a smart pickup for that league.

They weren't going to go on the clock in basketball as of yet. They were only going to lose three, right? I could be wrong. If they were losing three, they stayed at the magical number of seven. If they lost four, then yes the clock would start and they would have until until July 1, 2020 to fix that situation for at least basketball - sooner in other sports.

Pine Manor and others will be in the discussion I am sure. When January roles around and we see who else the division has allowed to start the transition process... that will be more telling to be honest. There are also some other pieces elsewhere that could be on the move - nothing confirmed - that could have an impact on a lot of things from Virginia to Maine.

They are going to lose four to go from 10 down to six, and now plus Canton and UMPI to go back to eight and keep everything on track.

Green Mountain (NAIA), Castleton (Little East), Colby-Sawyer (GNAC), New England College (NECC).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 02:29:47 PM
Castleton was the one I couldn't remember off the top of my head. I have had so much to track with conference changes of late... I am losing my mind. LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on November 28, 2017, 04:25:06 AM
Bumping this back to the top.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA)
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2017, 04:48:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 01:00:10 PM
I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

From my quick read through of some of the NCAA membership committee reports, it seems like the NCAA wasn't ever keen on approving the ACAA. I'm not sure if they eventually got approval or not, but it sounds like the NCAA may be considering adding language that would sort of force conferences to play a regular season schedule rather than just an AQ tournament at the end.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2017, 10:24:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2017, 04:48:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 01:00:10 PM
I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

From my quick read through of some of the NCAA membership committee reports, it seems like the NCAA wasn't ever keen on approving the ACAA. I'm not sure if they eventually got approval or not, but it sounds like the NCAA may be considering adding language that would sort of force conferences to play a regular season schedule rather than just an AQ tournament at the end.

You read it the same way I have. I feel the ACAA's plans along with the old GSAC caused some in the NCAA to start asking more questions. I highly suspect in the future there will be language that says a conference has to do more than just play a tournament at the end of the regular season.

As for the future of the ACAA... who knows. There are plenty of independent institutions who may need something like the ACAA even if only for a short period of time - its basic purpose. We shall see.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 28, 2017, 11:32:07 PM
Just a quick question:  Teams that are 1st and 2nd year provisional teams, they don't count in the NCAAs eyes as D3 games, or they don't count just for tourney and regional ranking purposes? This question, of course, is fantasy related as I'm trying to determine if a team plays again, Dean for example, if that should count as a D3 team playing a D3 opponent. I mean, are they D3 members, as opposed to an actual D2 team or an NAIA team? Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2017, 11:43:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 28, 2017, 11:32:07 PM
Just a quick question:  Teams that are 1st and 2nd year provisional teams, they don't count in the NCAAs eyes as D3 games, or they don't count just for tourney and regional ranking purposes? This question, of course, is fantasy related as I'm trying to determine if a team plays again, Dean for example, if that should count as a D3 team playing a D3 opponent. I mean, are they D3 members, as opposed to an actual D2 team or an NAIA team? Thanks.

Those in their first two years of the process do NOT count for regional rankings, tournament, etc. They only count for regional rankings and such in the third and fourth year. They are then eligible for the tournament after the four years (except for those who are able to skip the third year of the process).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on November 29, 2017, 10:56:36 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

In my spreadsheets, I count Dean, Brevard, and Pfeiffer as D3, because they are each playing a full D3 conference schedule... that may not be formal, but it was good enough for me...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 11:56:10 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 11:56:10 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.

I think it's the same question, with a complicated answer. Do the games "count"? Emerson is currently 4-1.

If they were to get to the table, would the committee consider them to currently be 3-1 in D3 and discredit the game against Dean? I think the answer to that question is probably your answer for whether or not to count the games for fantasy.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 12:59:25 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 11:56:10 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.

I think it's the same question, with a complicated answer. Do the games "count"? Emerson is currently 4-1.

If they were to get to the table, would the committee consider them to currently be 3-1 in D3 and discredit the game against Dean? I think the answer to that question is probably your answer for whether or not to count the games for fantasy.

Thanks for answering, Dave. I know you don't care about the fantasy aspect of it and that fine. I'm just trying to determine Dean's (among others) status. I think HOPEful brings up the key question. Although they aren't eligible for regional rankings and the NCAA tournament, do results against them count when it comes to the rankings and tournament for opponents? If they do, I'll count them in the leagues, if they don't, then games against 1st and 2nd year provisionals won't count in the leagues either.

Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on November 29, 2017, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 11:56:10 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.

I think it's the same question, with a complicated answer. Do the games "count"? Emerson is currently 4-1.

If they were to get to the table, would the committee consider them to currently be 3-1 in D3 and discredit the game against Dean? I think the answer to that question is probably your answer for whether or not to count the games for fantasy.

The committee would consider Emerson to be 2-1 in the primary criteria; 4-1_in the secondary criteria.  Fisher is NAIA-D2, while Dean is 1st year provisional.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 01:26:15 PM
That is how the committee will consider them. The games would be in secondary.

There was a time all four years would be like that, but conferences picking these teams up and making them part of the conference schedule became problematic (CAC a few years back comes to mind). So, it was amended to the first two years and the last two they could count.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 12:59:25 PM
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues. Do you think I'd care at all about Pfeiffer's provisional status if not for fantasy? But you and I both know that they play Greensboro and NC Wesleyan multiple times this season. My knowledge of D3 basketball outside of the Great Lakes region has increased dramatically due merely to fantasy. And I'm guessing I'm not the only one. Endicott fans cheering on Whitman players, IWU fans cheering for Greenville players, and Wooster fans cheering for Centenary players... Fantasy equals more exposure, however limited. Whether you like playing or not, the fact that this West Michigander and Hope alum/fan was excitedly cheering on Austin Cole and Cal Lutheran going against George Fox on Monday night from clear across the country, is enough reason that EVERYONE on this board should love fantasy. Especially the moderators.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2018, 12:00:42 PM
I guess this is as good a place for this as any: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/01/benedictine-looking-to-d2

Benedictine and Texas-Tyler are applying for DII membership. A lot still needs to happen before it is a reality, but keeping all in the loop.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2018, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 12:59:25 PM
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues.

Most of those who love D3 basketball and want to see it grow aren't aware that Mrs. Greek is the most long-suffering wife in eastern Wisconsin and that Tom is completely nuts. :D ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2018, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2018, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 12:59:25 PM
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues.

Most of those who love D3 basketball and want to see it grow aren't aware that Mrs. Greek is the most long-suffering wife in eastern Wisconsin and that Tom is completely nuts. :D ;)

Well, I am completely nuts. Funny how I just saw this post today. Anyway, I played Fantasy Football for over 20 years, including the first 8 years of our marriage. I stopped two years ago. So, my wife gets me for an extra 3 months since the draft for football was mid-August and D3 Hoops doesn't start until mid-November.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 02, 2018, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2018, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2018, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 12:59:25 PM
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues.

Most of those who love D3 basketball and want to see it grow aren't aware that Mrs. Greek is the most long-suffering wife in eastern Wisconsin and that Tom is completely nuts. :D ;)

Well, I am completely nuts. Funny how I just saw this post today.

No wonder you didn't see it until today. You have all of those fantasy leagues to run. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 05:52:16 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2018, 12:00:42 PM
I guess this is as good a place for this as any: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/01/benedictine-looking-to-d2

Benedictine and Texas-Tyler are applying for DII membership. A lot still needs to happen before it is a reality, but keeping all in the loop.
Applications submitted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 05:52:16 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2018, 12:00:42 PM
I guess this is as good a place for this as any: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/01/benedictine-looking-to-d2

Benedictine and Texas-Tyler are applying for DII membership. A lot still needs to happen before it is a reality, but keeping all in the loop.
Applications submitted.

Yes... as reported in another spot on the boards. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on February 09, 2018, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19

I always forget about the geography of some of our D3 conferences around the country. . . I will stop complaining about the length of JCU's trip to Ada.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 04:20:55 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on February 09, 2018, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19

I always forget about the geography of some of our D3 conferences around the country. . . I will stop complaining about the length of JCU's trip to Ada.

Bingo. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2018, 04:56:26 PM
Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the AEC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on February 09, 2018, 05:36:41 PM
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19
Travel partner!  YAY!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on February 09, 2018, 07:38:38 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on February 09, 2018, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19

I always forget about the geography of some of our D3 conferences around the country. . . I will stop complaining about the length of JCU's trip to Ada.

CWU bused one year to the Tournament of Champions in Turlock, CA. And they really have to bus to Humboldt State since it's a long bus ride from the SF airport to Arcata. I-5 is lovely in the fall.

I'm sure the ASC has some long-** bus rides thanks to Sul Ross. So, yeah.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: guest323 on February 11, 2018, 01:32:53 AM
Quote from: mailsy on February 09, 2018, 05:36:41 PM
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year

Any truth to CNU and/or VA Wesleyan too?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2018, 01:47:35 AM
CNU seems unlikely -- as a state school, they don't really match the profile of the rest. Not sure why Virginia Wesleyan would leave the ODAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2018, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: mailsy on February 09, 2018, 05:36:41 PM
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year

Arcadia could also move into the league this upcoming season... I am getting conflicting reports on that, believe it or not.

Quote from: guest323 on February 11, 2018, 01:32:53 AM
Quote from: mailsy on February 09, 2018, 05:36:41 PM
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year

Any truth to CNU and/or VA Wesleyan too?

No. There is a reason Marymount and Wesley are moving out of the CAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 09:30:00 PM
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on February 13, 2018, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 09:30:00 PM
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
So what conference would they be in? SUNYAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on February 13, 2018, 11:26:40 PM
Hello, Delhi!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2018, 11:27:37 PM
Quote from: mailsy on February 13, 2018, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 09:30:00 PM
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
So what conference would they be in? SUNYAC?

The SUNYAC didn't take Canton when they joined D-III.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 11:28:12 PM
I suspect at least the ACAA, but there could be some other suitors potentially.

The SUNYAC, I think, is a bit too big for more schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 07:06:09 AM

I believe Delhi is already in the ACAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2018, 08:31:17 AM
Are the ACAA schools planning on playing an actual conference schedule in the future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 03:02:00 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 13, 2018, 11:26:40 PM
Hello, Delhi!

Alas, smeds, your pun is ruined by the fact that the school, like the village and township in which it's located, is pronounced "DEL-high" and not "DEL-ee".

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2018, 11:27:37 PM
Quote from: mailsy on February 13, 2018, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 09:30:00 PM
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
So what conference would they be in? SUNYAC?

The SUNYAC didn't take Canton when they joined D-III.

Or Morrisville State, either.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 07:06:09 AM

I believe Delhi is already in the ACAA.

Yep.

http://goacaa.org/landing/index

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2018, 08:31:17 AM
Are the ACAA schools planning on playing an actual conference schedule in the future?

No, because the entire idea behind the conference was to create a venue for indies to get into Pool C (because Pool B, for all intents and purposes, is now defunct due to insufficient numbers) without forcing them to fly all across the country to play regular-season games against each other. However, D-Mac (I think) has posted that there are rumblings from the NCAA's D3 membership to clarify the definition of what constitutes a conference in D3 (i.e., the division's membership may force the ACAA to play the single round-robin minimum that the NESCAC currently plays).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2018, 03:09:12 PM
Morrisville actually did jump straight to the SUNYAC from the JUCO ranks in the early 2000s. Their brief tenure in the conference was a total disaster in terms of wins and losses, and they (along with SUNYIT, now known as SUNY Poly) right-sized to the NEAC about 10 years ago or so.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Hmm, I must've missed that about Morrisville State. I was aware that SUNY Poly switched out of the SUNYAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 03:16:15 PM
You are correct, Sager, though more than rumblings... at least one committee, if not more, are looking into having more norms than just a numbers minimum for conferences to have their AQ. The former GSAC debacle and the creation of the ACAA with no conference play I think has frustrated those in the division that AQs are going to those who aren't doing much to deserve them. I concur. I am eagerly awaiting what the outcome of these committees will be.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 04:36:23 PM
I'd love to see them mandate a twelve-game minimum for league play (in other words, the equivalent of a double round-robin for a minimally-sized league of seven teams) in order for the league to receive an AQ ... and then read the ensuing fallout in the NESCAC room. :D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 05:28:09 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 04:36:23 PM
I'd love to see them mandate a twelve-game minimum for league play (in other words, the equivalent of a double round-robin for a minimally-sized league of seven teams) in order for the league to receive an AQ ... and then read the ensuing fallout in the NESCAC room.

Hello?  Holy Cross?  It's time.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 05:30:08 PM
LOL!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2018, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner
and to Trinity Alum Ron Boerger! :)

...and a bunch of others!

Thanks to Knightslappy for updating the "Conference Changes" board.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner

So they'll play a full conference schedule with none of their games actually counting, then when they get provisional status, they'll still have to wait 2 years (3rd and 4th year provisional counts for NCAA and Regional Rankings) until those conference games actually count?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 15, 2018, 12:02:47 PM
It depends upon whether or not the SCAC schedules have already been created for 2018-19 or not, as well as whether or not existing non-conference contracts make adding games/matches against St. Thomas (TX) and subtracting non-conference games/matches viable for the rest of the league. It also depends upon whether or not St. Thomas (TX) can and will get out of its scheduling commitments for 2018-19. This is typically a slow process, because a lot of sports schedule a year or two in advance. Sometimes a newcomer school waits a year before playing a full conference slate, sometimes it plays a full conference slate in some sports but not in others.

The SCAC's other members can tolerate two or three seasons of playing games that don't count towards primary criteria in the eyes of the various D3 sports committees. Heck, Texas-based schools are forced by geography to play a lot of non-D3 contests as it is.

The real issue with St. Thomas (TX) is those uniforms. They're hideous. The Celts have to lose them; NAIA teams can wear unis that look like dirty laundry if they like, but D3's got standards to uphold. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 01:37:35 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner

So they'll play a full conference schedule with none of their games actually counting, then when they get provisional status, they'll still have to wait 2 years (3rd and 4th year provisional counts for NCAA and Regional Rankings) until those conference games actually count?

This was something that affected the SCAC and CAC in the past. In fact, it lead to a change of the rule. It used to be that no-games counted for transitioning institutions until they had completed the entire four-year process and were NCAA tournament eligible. That was changed to just a two-year limitations on games counting (first two years), though the NCAA post-season ban remains. The SCAC actually saw this quirk in action a few years ago when Trinity lost in the conference title game, but was the SCAC AQ winner because the tournament winner was ineligible for the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 03:02:16 PM
So is the exploratory/provisional status the same process? It seems like the "exploratory" stage is like a feeler and if they like it, they can apply for provisional status. If they don't, they can go back to NAIA/D2 etc?

So 3rd and 4th year provisional teams can be regionally ranked and count as full D3 games but are still ineligible for the tournament until they become full members?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 03:07:06 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 03:02:16 PM
So is the exploratory/provisional status the same process? It seems like the "exploratory" stage is like a feeler and if they like it, they can apply for provisional status. If they don't, they can go back to NAIA/D2 etc?

So 3rd and 4th year provisional teams can be regionally ranked and count as full D3 games but are still ineligible for the tournament until they become full members?

Exploratory is the first of what is really a five-year process (i.e. in DII, since it is relevent, if Benedictine or Tyler are accepted, next year would be an exploratory process). Then if allowed to move on, schools start the provisional, four-year process.

It also based on the academic calendar... so anyone saying they have been accepted into the exploratory process - next academic year is that exploratory year. Anyone saying they have been accepted to start the provisional process, they have completed the exploratory year and next academic year (2018-19) will start the four-year window we talk about so often.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2018, 03:16:39 PM
Third- and fourth-year provisionals cannot be regionally ranked, but their games count in primary criteria.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 10:57:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2018, 03:16:39 PM
Third- and fourth-year provisionals cannot be regionally ranked, but their games count in primary criteria.

Correct... due to the fact they are not eligible for NCAA tournaments.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 07:55:57 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 03:02:16 PM
So is the exploratory/provisional status the same process? It seems like the "exploratory" stage is like a feeler and if they like it, they can apply for provisional status. If they don't, they can go back to NAIA/D2 etc?

So 3rd and 4th year provisional teams can be regionally ranked and count as full D3 games but are still ineligible for the tournament until they become full members?

It's the same process, but during the exploratory year, the school is considered to still be in the division they're leaving.  Once they enter year 1 provisional, they are a d3 program, albeit with restrictions.  This is why Benedictine and Tyler will likely remain with a d3 schedule next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2018, 11:15:13 AM
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2018, 11:15:13 AM
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.

I believe so - well, technically they'll be listed as "reclassifying," I believe, but I don't think any team is officially a member of the new division until the first provisional year.  There have been instances in the past where a school did an exploratory year and either they or the NCAA decided not to continue the process.  I assume it's easier for everyone to have the exploratory year be truly just an exploration and not an official move.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 12:19:03 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2018, 11:15:13 AM
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.

I believe so - well, technically they'll be listed as "reclassifying," I believe, but I don't think any team is officially a member of the new division until the first provisional year.  There have been instances in the past where a school did an exploratory year and either they or the NCAA decided not to continue the process.  I assume it's easier for everyone to have the exploratory year be truly just an exploration and not an official move.

Correct - they will be Division III members next year, but reclassifying. The only limitation will they will NOT be eligible for NCAA postseasons. We have tried to determine what their status is in their respective conferences, but have not gotten any answers. The ASC is still exploring this; the NACC basically ducked the question. I plan to ask again soon (and share some insight I have already gathered).

I hope both conference allow both to compete since there is no advantage. I also hope they continue to be in the conference postseasons, but have a plan in place in case either wins the AQ (see SCAC a few years ago).

As for the rest of the process, yes... there have been occasions when a reclassifying school has not continued on with the process. This "limbo" year is just that - schools remain where they are as paperwork, visits, and whatnot are undertaken to get going into the division they are chasing. So anyone who has started the exploratory process is not a member of DII or DIII until they have been accepted into the provisional stage.

I have more info, but I need to go through some things I have received from the NCAA first. They think it is easy to understand; it really isn't. LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
Brought forward...

Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2018, 04:56:26 PM
Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the AEC?

Exploratory members for 2018-19

University of St Thomas (Houston TX). Accepted for membership by the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2018, 03:06:52 PM
BTW... those AECs don't need "?" ... they have finally officially announced that. Did it about a month ago. The only one apparently not coming now is Arcadia. That decision went from them joining, to waiting a year, to waiting a year, to suddenly coming next year to not coming at all. It has been nuts. AEC is asking around to other schools. I am not holding my breathe right now on an 8th, though I am sure it will happen. There are rumors the conference wants 10, but I think that is a reach considering the current climate.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2018, 04:25:01 PM
MUW will be a first year provisional independent, I believe.  SUNY-Delhi is also a first year provisional, but I believe they're already in the ACAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.



2018-19 is the exploratory year. If successfully completed, then will full regular season SCAC schedule in 2019-20 in Provisional Year 1.  They will add M&W tennis next year and then baseball in 2020 to get to 12.
http://scacsports.com/news/st_thomas_joins_scac

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.

Even as an exploratory team, will St Thomas of Houston be playing a SCAC conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2018, 06:17:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.

J&W CO has finished it's exploratory year, so they start on the provisional year in 2018-19 which means they can compete in the SCAC, but they are not eligible for NCAA post-seasons for four years and not eligible to be counted for other teams, basically, for two years.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.

Even as an exploratory team, will St Thomas of Houston be playing a SCAC conference schedule?

No... not allowed as I understand it. Usually exploratory years have schools stay in their current situations. See how Benedictine and UT-Tyler will stay in DIII next season, for example.

They will probably announce late next January or February if the exploratory year worked out and they have been allowed by DIII to continue into the provisional process.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2018, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 21, 2018, 11:02:09 AM
College of St Elizabeth adding baseball, leaving the NEAC for the CSAC in 2019-20:   http://cseathletics.com/news/2018/3/19/general-cse-to-join-the-colonial-states-athletic-conference-for-2019-20.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 21, 2018, 02:03:06 PM
Yeah - we've been distracted today and haven't been able to get to that one. They alerted us this morning when they made it public.

Still more moves to be made.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on April 06, 2018, 05:53:38 PM
Mount Ida is closing after this semester. The GNAC is still well above the threshold for automatic qualifying bids.

http://d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/mount-ida-closing
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:43:29 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 12:19:03 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 02:04:31 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2018, 11:15:13 AM
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.

I believe so - well, technically they'll be listed as "reclassifying," I believe, but I don't think any team is officially a member of the new division until the first provisional year.  There have been instances in the past where a school did an exploratory year and either they or the NCAA decided not to continue the process.  I assume it's easier for everyone to have the exploratory year be truly just an exploration and not an official move.

Correct - they will be Division III members next year, but reclassifying. The only limitation will they will NOT be eligible for NCAA postseasons. We have tried to determine what their status is in their respective conferences, but have not gotten any answers. The ASC is still exploring this; the NACC basically ducked the question. I plan to ask again soon (and share some insight I have already gathered).

I hope both conference allow both to compete since there is no advantage. I also hope they continue to be in the conference postseasons, but have a plan in place in case either wins the AQ (see SCAC a few years ago).

As for the rest of the process, yes... there have been occasions when a reclassifying school has not continued on with the process. This "limbo" year is just that - schools remain where they are as paperwork, visits, and whatnot are undertaken to get going into the division they are chasing. So anyone who has started the exploratory process is not a member of DII or DIII until they have been accepted into the provisional stage.

I have more info, but I need to go through some things I have received from the NCAA first. They think it is easy to understand; it really isn't. LOL

To clarify, Benedictine and Texas-Tyler retain D3 status and count as a normal D3 opponent for selection criteria (even though they themselves are not eligible?)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2018, 03:24:48 PM
Thomas More leaving independent for the dark side in 2019-20.
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 04:02:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2018, 03:24:48 PM
Thomas More leaving independent for the dark side in 2019-20.
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Sadly, but realistically, did we not see this coming?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2018, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 04:02:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2018, 03:24:48 PM
Thomas More leaving independent for the dark side in 2019-20.
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Sadly, but realistically, did we not see this coming?

To those of us who were keeping tabs on things and talking to individuals, yeah... saw this coming. I think TMC will use the next 12 months to see if there is a Hail Mary out there and a conference who will give them a home... but I just don't think it will end up happening.

Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:57:29 PM
To clarify, Benedictine and Texas-Tyler retain D3 status and count as a normal D3 opponent for selection criteria (even though they themselves are not eligible?)

Correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 02:22:17 PM
Mississippi University for Women has hired a men's basketball coach.

http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 19, 2018, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 02:22:17 PM
Mississippi University for Women has hired a men's basketball coach.

http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index

I thought they didn't have a men's program. So what does that mean for them? Club team for a few years, exploratory phase?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
Part of them coming to DIII was they were going co-ed.

As for what they do... the next year is probably growing as a program and starting play the following year. Their eligibility is dictated by the school's status in the DIII process.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 05:53:26 PM
The question is where do they land in D-III? They are a public university with tuition under $6,000 in Columbus MS, which is between Birmingham (B-SC) and Memphis (Rhodes).  They are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2018, 09:53:11 PM
Yep. I see them as Rust, Part Two.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2018, 09:56:29 PM
No idea where they will land. Could there be another conference to create? I'm grasping a bit to try and find an answer.

I think they may be better than Rust, Sager... they had a press release about a coach... right? :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2018, 09:59:47 PM
I meant Rust, Part Two in the geographic and affiliative senses.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 20, 2018, 02:14:47 PM
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on April 20, 2018, 03:15:04 PM
 Is that why it was named "Rust"?   ::)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 20, 2018, 02:14:47 PM
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.

Yes, of course I remember very well the chaos that Rust created with its informational vacuum, especially given all of the hand-wringing that hopefan did over it in the D3 vs. Others room back when Rust was a D3 member. I was simply saying that this:

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 05:53:26 PMThey are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.

... was as applicable to Holly Springs, MS as it is to Columbus, MS. Holly Springs is not quite as far east as Columbus, but it's a lot further north.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2018, 04:11:12 PM
Quote from: ronk on April 20, 2018, 03:15:04 PM
Is that why it was named "Rust"?   ::)
QuoteRUST COLLEGE was established in 1866 by the Freedman's Aid Society of the Methodist Episcopal Church. Its founders were missionaries from the North who opened a school in Asbury Methodist Episcopal Church, accepting adults of all ages, as well as children, for instruction in elementary subjects. A year later the first building on the present campus was erected.

In 1870, the school was chartered as Shaw University, honoring the Reverend S.O. Shaw, who made a gift of $10,000 to the new institution. In 1892, the name was changed to Rust University to avoid confusion with another Shaw University. The name was a tribute to Richard S. Rust of Cincinnati, Ohio, Secretary of the Freedman's Aid Society. In 1915, the title was changed to the more realistic name, Rust College.


http://www.rustcollege.edu/about_rust.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on April 20, 2018, 08:12:05 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
Part of them coming to DIII was they were going co-ed.

As for what they do... the next year is probably growing as a program and starting play the following year. Their eligibility is dictated by the school's status in the DIII process.

Mississippi University for Women has been co-ed since 1982 (court ordered, btw). They just never bothered to change the college's name. MUW started ALL their sports teams, both men's and women's, from scratch this last fall.

As for Rust College, they are joining the Gulf Coast Athletic Conference in the NAIA this fall. So they finally found a place to call home.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2018, 10:02:44 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on April 20, 2018, 08:12:05 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
Part of them coming to DIII was they were going co-ed.

As for what they do... the next year is probably growing as a program and starting play the following year. Their eligibility is dictated by the school's status in the DIII process.

Mississippi University for Women has been co-ed since 1982 (court ordered, btw). They just never bothered to change the college's name. MUW started ALL their sports teams, both men's and women's, from scratch this last fall.

As for Rust College, they are joining the Gulf Coast Athletic Conference in the NAIA this fall. So they finally found a place to call home.
I am happy for Rust.  This looks like a good fit for them. There is plenty of travel to New Orleans, but hopefully this works out well for them.

http://www.gcaconf.com/members.php
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 21, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 20, 2018, 02:14:47 PM
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.

Yes, of course I remember very well the chaos that Rust created with its informational vacuum, especially given all of the hand-wringing that hopefan did over it in the D3 vs. Others room back when Rust was a D3 member. I was simply saying that this:

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 05:53:26 PMThey are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.

... was as applicable to Holly Springs, MS as it is to Columbus, MS. Holly Springs is not quite as far east as Columbus, but it's a lot further north.

I don't know anything about the school, but does it fit the SAA profile? It certainly fills in the SAA map.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2018, 10:38:18 PM
Mississippi University for Women is a state school.

The membership of the SAA includes some of the most prestigious universities in the South, the Association of Colleges of the South, e.g., B-SC, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Rhodes, University of the South.  (Just look at the URL of their web site,  colleges.org)

MUW has a proud heritage but it will be interesting to see how the mission/vision issues are handled viz-a-viz geography.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: rlk on April 21, 2018, 11:43:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 21, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 20, 2018, 02:14:47 PM
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.

Yes, of course I remember very well the chaos that Rust created with its informational vacuum, especially given all of the hand-wringing that hopefan did over it in the D3 vs. Others room back when Rust was a D3 member. I was simply saying that this:

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 05:53:26 PMThey are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.

... was as applicable to Holly Springs, MS as it is to Columbus, MS. Holly Springs is not quite as far east as Columbus, but it's a lot further north.

I don't know anything about the school, but does it fit the SAA profile? It certainly fills in the SAA map.

MIT's head coach Larry Anderson graduated from Rust in 1987.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smalltowner on April 23, 2018, 04:40:41 PM
SAA likely not interested in adding anyone without some major academic clout. Could pull Huntington and LaGrange out of USASouth, pull Louisiana College and Belhaven from ASC, add MUW and then only need a couple more for a reasonably legitimate new conference that would save all those schools a lot of travel. Centenary would be a good geography fit but they may see it as a "downgrade" academically. Maybe Piedmont and/or Covenant out of USASouth or an NAIA pickup from SSAC that would probably fit better in D3 if the travel was better (UMobile, William Carey, Blue Mountain or the like)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2018, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: smalltowner on April 23, 2018, 04:40:41 PM
SAA likely not interested in adding anyone without some major academic clout. Could pull Huntington and LaGrange out of USASouth, pull Louisiana College and Belhaven from ASC, add MUW and then only need a couple more for a reasonably legitimate new conference that would save all those schools a lot of travel. Centenary would be a good geography fit but they may see it as a "downgrade" academically. Maybe Piedmont and/or Covenant out of USASouth or an NAIA pickup from SSAC that would probably fit better in D3 if the travel was better (UMobile, William Carey, Blue Mountain or the like)
Thanks for the comment.

Of the 16 members in the Association of Colleges of the South, Centenary, Southwestern, and Trinity are the members of the ACS in the SCAC.

Morehouse and Spelman are members in Atlanta. Curiously, Oglethorpe is not. (Nor is Berry).

Other members include W&L, Rollins, Furman, Davidson and Richmond.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smalltowner on April 24, 2018, 10:04:55 AM
Oglethorpe has an endowment much smaller (at least 5x less, 50+x less than Trinity) than any of the other ACS schools, so maybe that has something to do with it. Also could be a competition thing, since ACS is affiliated with Emory- even though it's a research institution they still compete for some students I think.
Berry is just really unique- largest campus in the country, nearly a billion dollar endowment, really strong environmental and animal science that don't typically go with liberal arts schools. The whole Martha Berry story is pretty incredible, cool place.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 09, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 11, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 09, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.

the Skyline is getting pretty crowded, and there's still Pratt and New Rochelle ringing the doorbell and peeking in the windows.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 11, 2018, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 11, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 09, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.

the Skyline is getting pretty crowded, and there's still Pratt and New Rochelle ringing the doorbell and peeking in the windows.

I wouldn't say there are any guarantees those two end up being accepted. I think there are other destinations that are better fit. NEAC to be honest.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on May 13, 2018, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 11, 2018, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 11, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 09, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.

the Skyline is getting pretty crowded, and there's still Pratt and New Rochelle ringing the doorbell and peeking in the windows.

I wouldn't say there are any guarantees those two end up being accepted. I think there are other destinations that are better fit. NEAC to be honest.
Pratt is joining the American Collegiate Athletic Association this fall. At least they'll have conference championships to play for. I'm surprised New Rochelle hasn't joined the ACAA, while they're waiting for another conference's invite.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 26, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:43:29 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

So, St. Joseph's (CT) is a full D3 member even though they are a first year men's program? Do they have any post season restrictions for the GNAC or NCAA?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 26, 2018, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 26, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:43:29 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

So, St. Joseph's (CT) is a full D3 member even though they are a first year men's program? Do they have any post season restrictions for the GNAC or NCAA?
I believe it solely depends on the institution's standing. If the school is a full member then any team is a full member even if it's the team's first season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 26, 2018, 11:44:00 AM
Yes, St. Joseph has been a member of Division III for years and any new sports they add carry that membership status.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 02, 2018, 10:48:04 AM
So is that ACAA still going to be around even though they don't even play a conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 02, 2018, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 02, 2018, 10:48:04 AM
So is that ACAA still going to be around even though they don't even play a conference schedule?

I believe they will exist as long as they want to exist.  I'm not sure they're going to be big enough for an AQ, though, so that might mean they don't last too long.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 03, 2018, 08:36:58 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Yes, but this situation is causing the NCAA to go back and look at stricter conference requirements.  This isn't the first time this has happened either.  It is, I believe, the first time it's happened for teams who aren't geographic orphans (for the most part).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
 Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 11:58:25 AM
Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 03, 2018, 02:29:19 PM

Plus, if you're terrible, Pool B is often out of reach.  If your whole Pool A conference is terrible, you have a chance.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 03, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 11:58:25 AM
Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

No, Scranton got a Pool B both years and Moravian got an additional one the first year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 11:58:25 AM
Quote from: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 AM
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

No, Scranton got a Pool B both years and Moravian got an additional one the first year.
Thanks for the correction.  +1!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 11:29:27 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Why not? I believe the NCAA rules are a conference has to play at least one game against every member of your conference unless ALL the members agree to play less. IIRC, this rule was put in place so that a conference couldn't ban a school that was so much better than all the other schools in one sport. If all the ACAA schools agree to not do a round robin schedule, that's their right.

BTW, this fall the ACAA will have six co-ed schools and one women's college that doesn't play basketball. So they are below the threshold for an AQ in every men's sport. They will hit the seven member threshold for women's cross country, volleyball, and soccer, but that won't happen until Pratt becomes an full NCAA Div. 3 member in 2022 or 2023.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 01:38:20 PM
About the ACAA, Thomas More College of Kentucky, which just left the President's Athletic Conference and was supposed to join the NAIA in 2019, has just accepted membership in the ACAA effective 2018-19. No idea if this is just a longterm fix, or if Thomas More is just doing this so its teams have a conference championship to play for this year.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 01:44:49 PM
By the way, this puts the ACAA at or over the seven member threshold for almost all the sports it sponsors. However, Alfred State University has just accepted full membership in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference effective 2019-20, so the numbers just go down again.

http://www.amccsports.org/general/2017-18/releases/ASC_Membership
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 05, 2018, 02:12:12 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 01:38:20 PM
About the ACAA, Thomas More College of Kentucky, which just left the President's Athletic Conference and was supposed to join the NAIA in 2019, has just accepted membership in the ACAA effective 2018-19. No idea if this is just a longterm fix, or if Thomas More is just doing this so its teams have a conference championship to play for this year.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q

The conference championship means nothing in the grand scheme of things... this allows TMC to stay in DIII with some kind of purpose. But long term, they need a better home than the ACAA.

Quote from: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 11:29:27 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 AM
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Why not? I believe the NCAA rules are a conference has to play at least one game against every member of your conference unless ALL the members agree to play less. IIRC, this rule was put in place so that a conference couldn't ban a school that was so much better than all the other schools in one sport. If all the ACAA schools agree to not do a round robin schedule, that's their right.

Not sure what NCAA rules you are reading... this is all it says in the bylaws for DIII:

Quote
3.3.4.2 Conference Competition.
Member conferences shall conduct conference competition and determine a champion in one or more sports in which the Association conducts championships or for which it is responsible for providing playing rules for intercollegiate competition.

Doesn't really go into any details as to what that means. It says "conduct conference competition," but it doesn't explain any requirements of what that shall mean. I certainly haven't seen language that conferences are to conduct a minimum of one-round schedule unless the entire membership agrees to otherwise. It may be true, but I haven't heard that uttered to me nor can I find the language.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 06, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
I find it strange that the words "conference championship" are said considering they don't even play a conference schedule. It seems a bit unfair if we were to use any other conference in place of the ACAA, for example.

There's an annual debate with the NESCAC playing a single round-robin and that perceived advantage when regional rankings and NCAA tournament selections are made. What if they didn't even have a conference schedule like the ACAA? There are years when 5 or 6 teams from the NESCAC are considered for the NCAA tourney. What if they didn't even play each other once? Could there be 7 or 8 teams discussed with all having stellar records? Yes, their SOS would be worse, but that hasn't stopped some teams from getting in. What about power conferences like the CCIW, WIAC or UAA? What kind of backlash would there be if they decided to just do a single round-robin like the NESCAC, let alone not even have a conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2018, 02:31:41 PM
Frostburg St to D-2 in 2019-20.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/frostburg-state-join-d2
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 09, 2018, 12:07:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2018, 02:31:41 PM
Frostburg St to D-2 in 2019-20.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/frostburg-state-join-d2

Pending acceptance by DII in some time between the application deadline of Feb. 1 and June 30 of 2019... they also appear to be skipping the transition year which I've been told is ... risky.

I realize acceptance by DII is probably a rubber stamp... but, you just never know. I also have word that there are things going on at the state level that could be interesting. Nothing to be specific about, but I am following things behind the scenes at the state level.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 10, 2018, 12:27:24 AM
... and more for the CAC:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 10, 2018, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 10, 2018, 12:27:24 AM
... and more for the CAC:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another

This move will leave the Capital Athletic Conference with only six members for 2019-20. Time for the CAC to raid the ACAA or grab one of the few remaining D3 independents?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 11, 2018, 03:52:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Valley Forge would fit geographically, but I doubt they'd want the kind of travel a CAC schedule requires, nor do they sponsor near enough sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: nyhoopstalk on July 11, 2018, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2018, 06:42:03 PM
I have a couple of admittedly out of left field ideas for the CAC to look at: Coppin State and UMES. Both public institutions in Maryland.

Yes they're Division I, but pretty wildly unsuccessful, insufficiently funded and have always been kind of a sore thumb in the MEAC since neither of them plays football. The MEAC itself is starting to look more than a bit unstable.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 11, 2018, 10:41:54 PM
Those schools would be a better fit for D2, especially since that's where fellow mid-sized Maryland public school Frostburg State is moving. FSU is actually bigger than either Coppin State or UMES, and it has a bigger endowment than the former and an endowment roughly the same size as the latter.

Coppin State would fit perfectly into the CIAA, a D2 conference stretching from Pennsylvania to North Carolina that mostly consists of historically black colleges and universities (like Coppin State). Former D3 members Lincoln and Chowan are in the CIAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 11, 2018, 11:01:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 11, 2018, 10:41:54 PM
Those schools would be a better fit for D2, especially since that's where fellow mid-sized Maryland public school Frostburg State is moving. FSU is actually bigger than either Coppin State or UMES, and it has a bigger endowment than the former and an endowment roughly the same size as the latter.

Coppin State would fit perfectly into the CIAA, a D2 conference stretching from Pennsylvania to North Carolina that mostly consists of historically black colleges and universities (like Coppin State). Former D3 members Lincoln and Chowan are in the CIAA.

Where can one find out endowments? Are they available for private colleges, also. I'd be interested in comparing D3 schools, for example.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 12, 2018, 11:03:02 AM
https://highereddatastories.blogspot.com/2018/01/a-quick-look-at-nacubo-endowment-data.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: amh63 on July 12, 2018, 12:19:48 PM
ronk....there are a number of ways to get the latest endownment info on the 800 plus colleges and universities...in particular the FY2017 numbers.
Just go on the web and ask for the info.  In particular, there is an national association of business officials of colleges and Un....NACUBO.. that provide such data...the latest is for FY2017. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 12, 2018, 12:42:31 PM
Quote from: amh63 on July 12, 2018, 12:19:48 PM
ronk....there are a number of ways to get the latest endownment info on the 800 plus colleges and universities...in particular the FY2017 numbers.
Just go on the web and ask for the info.  In particular, there is an national association of business officials of colleges and Un....NACUBO.. that provide such data...the latest is for FY2017.

thanks - just wanted to see how if that was the prime reason for Amherst winning over my prospects.    ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: amh63 on July 12, 2018, 05:47:44 PM
ronk....yelp!....Amherst has for it's size a very large endownment and it is campaigning for MORE!
In short it is a school that will compete for the brightest and best...in spite of its high cost to attend.  With regards to D3 student-athletes in general, and WBB talent in particular like your prospects...it can be a losing battle ;D.  Amherst has at least 4 new players in the class of 2022.  Would not be surprised that Amherst may compete for another National Title in the 2018-2019 season. 
Heck....Amherst is working hard to reach the three billion endownment level in the near future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sunny on July 13, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on July 11, 2018, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

I'm thinking there is no natural reason why Stevens would want to be in a conference with Salisbury, Mary Wash, and Christopher Newport - three public universities with high levels of athletic success that are all travel headaches for a school in Hoboken, N.J.

Thinking outside the division actually seems a more plausible path forward unless they can sell some sucker NEAC or ACAA school on the notion of being boosted by the much higher level of competition. That didn't really work out for Penn State-Harrisburg and I think it's fair to say they were in a much better position athletically when they moved into the CAC than most NEAC or ACAA candidates would be ...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 13, 2018, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: sunny on July 13, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on July 11, 2018, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

I'm thinking there is no natural reason why Stevens would want to be in a conference with Salisbury, Mary Wash, and Christopher Newport - three public universities with high levels of athletic success that are all travel headaches for a school in Hoboken, N.J.

Thinking outside the division actually seems a more plausible path forward unless they can sell some sucker NEAC or ACAA school on the notion of being boosted by the much higher level of competition. That didn't really work out for Penn State-Harrisburg and I think it's fair to say they were in a much better position athletically when they moved into the CAC than most NEAC or ACAA candidates would be ...

I'd argue the travel headaches down the east coast are equal to or better than those heading to Buffalo in the middle of winter.

I have heard the same about Stevens and that their last-minute decision to join the E8 has been regretted ever since they pulled out of the Landmark. I just can't share more than that.

As for thinking outside the division... it isn't the solution. The time for a program to change divisions is too long to save the CAC. The conference basically has two years to solve this (technically three, but that's pushing their luck) and it will take at least four and half years from this point in time for a non-Division III program to become a full fledge member of DIII. That's assuming it all goes well. And you can't bet on any of those programs being able to skip a year. McMurray didn't even skip a year returning to DIII.

I think it was working for Harrisburg as they were getting more competitive in that conference... but sometimes you can't solve behind the scenes thinking. Now Harrisburg returns to the worst conference in the country... and will no longer be taken seriously. Staying in the CAC, even if you are in the middle or bottom, is more credit to your institution than in the NEAC. Sadly... just the truth.

The CAC has ideas and is moving on those ideas... I just can't say what they are because a) some stuff I have learned is off the record and b) a lot of rumors have been swirling making things complicated. I know where they have been looking... I just don't know where the triggers are being pulled.

They have two years to make significant moves. That gives them time. They don't have to solve this by the end of August. They certainly can't sit around and take their time, but let's give them some room on this. Also, there could be other decisions and moves made elsewhere that could have trickle down or direct affects on these things. The CAC isn't the only conference looking to make changes. Harrisburg and Frostburg are not the only schools looking to make changes. There is a lot going on below the radar.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 13, 2018, 01:09:14 PM
I'd argue they can still bolster the conference from outside the division -- it's not too late there. But it would result in losing AQs for a year or two. The conference doesn't have to have an AQ every year in order to hold itself together, but it does need to show progress and a timeline in that regard, I suspect.

I didn't see evidence that PSH was getting better in the CAC. They finished a solid ninth in the all-sports trophy every year they were in it, with only Southern Virginia finishing behind them in the 10-team years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 13, 2018, 01:16:23 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 13, 2018, 01:09:14 PM
I'd argue they can still bolster the conference from outside the division -- it's not too late there. But it would result in losing AQs for a year or two. The conference doesn't have to have an AQ every year in order to hold itself together, but it does need to show progress and a timeline in that regard, I suspect.

I didn't see evidence that PSH was getting better in the CAC. They finished a solid ninth in the all-sports trophy every year they were in it, with only Southern Virginia finishing behind them in the 10-team years.

Yes fair... they would lose the AQs. I was working on the premise of not losing those AQs and trying to keep members happy with tournament access and the like. I think they risk being in a deeper hole should they risk losing the AQs. But that is a fair point... they could do it if they are willing to lose access.

It does lose some of its voting power in the NCAA as well, though. Something behind the scenes that was interesting to read up on. Not sure how schools and conferences feel about that kind of stuff.

I saw Harrisburg being more competitive. Sometimes the end results don't prove much. I know teams with below .500 records that were more competitive than those with above .500 records. I felt Harrisburg had improved and there were some on campus who apparently felt the same way. There were others... who apparently didn't like the move from day one... but such is life on a college campus LOL.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 16, 2018, 03:28:22 PM
Trying to keep this up to date. Let me know if I've missed anything in the discussion here:

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
Pratt joins the ACAA (exploratory member in 2018-19)
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
St. Thomas (TX) joins the SCAC (exploratory member in 2018-19)
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ACAA
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying, assumed approval at this point)
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on July 16, 2018, 04:29:29 PM
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2 beginning in 2019-20.
UT-Tyler leaves D3 for D2 beginning (I think) in 2019-20.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 17, 2018, 08:24:28 AM
Quote from: Just Bill on July 16, 2018, 04:29:29 PM
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2 beginning in 2019-20.
UT-Tyler leaves D3 for D2 beginning (I think) in 2019-20.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on July 18, 2018, 12:58:28 PM
Also missing Alfred St leaving ACAA for AMCC in 19-20
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 20, 2018, 01:08:31 PM
Keep in mind with Frostburg that their "decision" has not been approved by DII/NCAA. That won't happen for another 12 months. The deadline to apply is Feb. 1, 2019 and then the process takes until early to mid July at the latest before DII makes the decision.

I am not saying FSU isn't going to end up in DII, but there is still a lot of time for that to happen/be confirmed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 29, 2018, 11:45:05 PM
This month's Around the Nation podcast will interest folks who like to track news on this board.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/07/atn-conference-shuffle
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on July 30, 2018, 09:44:25 AM
Interesting that '12' is the number that the conferences are looking to get to. I guess they would split into 6 team "divisions"? Also I'll have to find out who were the 4? I have a good idea, but very curious.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 30, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
Speaking of 12, the GNAC moves to that number next season, but, they will only play a single round robin conference schedule. With only 11 conference games, are they trying to bolster their SOS with more non-conference games? The GNAC is tradionally a pretty weak conference in terms of SOS, isn't it?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 30, 2018, 03:22:59 PM
Also remember that not all schools support all sports in a conference. By moving to "12" they can play the odds that all of their sports are AQ eligible.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 31, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 30, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
Speaking of 12, the GNAC moves to that number next season, but, they will only play a single round robin conference schedule. With only 11 conference games, are they trying to bolster their SOS with more non-conference games? The GNAC is tradionally a pretty weak conference in terms of SOS, isn't it?

The women's side is bigger, which we also have to remember.  I wonder if they're planning to get bigger and preparing for growth?  Still a lot of movement likely to happen in New England in the coming years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 11, 2018, 09:25:48 AM
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference's name when it won the men's basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary's (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 11, 2018, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on August 11, 2018, 09:25:48 AM
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference's name when it won the men's basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary's (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx

From the press release...


Quote..."This is a milestone day for our conference," said Dr. Joshua Merchant, President of Buena Vista University and Chair of the conference's Presidents Council. "Our name will change, but our commitment to competitive athletics as part of a well-rounded educational experience will not."

The conference employed Skye Design Studios (www.sdsbranding.com), a national leader in sport branding and identity design, for the various phases of the exercise that produced the new name and "Dynamic R"-focused mark. "I am honored, on behalf of the Presidents Council, to bring this new identity to the conference's community of student-athletes, coaches, administrators, alumni and fans," said commissioner Chuck Yrigoyen. "This announcement caps off months of careful thought by scores of people on our campuses."

The Conference's origin dates back to December 8, 1922, when representatives from 12 colleges gathered to establish the "Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Association." Charter members Buena Vista, Central, Luther and Simpson have remained throughout. Loras was a member from 1926-54 and rejoined in 1986. Dubuque joined in 1929. Wartburg joined in 1937. Coe became a member in 1997. Nebraska Wesleyan gained admission in 2016."

Having thrown off the 96-year constraints of the word "Iowa" and with a name change like that, the ARC is poised to gobble up any- and everything in its path.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: guest323 on August 11, 2018, 10:32:55 AM
not sure if it's on here, but I'm hearing that Bob Jones U is going D3 in the near future
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 11, 2018, 05:08:39 PM
Quote from: guest323 on August 11, 2018, 10:32:55 AM
not sure if it's on here, but I'm hearing that Bob Jones U is going D3 in the near future
Yes, they are in the exploratory year.

However, there are no tributaries of the Mississippi or Missouri Rivers near the Bob Jones U campus, so they will need to find another conference.
;)   ;D   :)  ::)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 12, 2018, 09:39:39 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on August 11, 2018, 09:25:48 AM
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference's name when it won the men's basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary's (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx

In the case of the MIAA, I take 'Michigan' to refer to the geologic formatiin of the Michigan Basin, in which the Trine and St. Mary's campuses are located.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 12, 2018, 11:02:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 12, 2018, 09:39:39 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on August 11, 2018, 09:25:48 AM
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference's name when it won the men's basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary's (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx

In the case of the MIAA, I take 'Michigan' to refer to the geologic formatiin of the Michigan Basin, in which the Trine and St. Mary's campuses are located.

Good point!  (Are you a John McPhee fan?  I believe he also notes that fact.)

Not sure whether the CCIW could have used such an 'excuse' to exclude the W!  Probably not - the "Wisconsin" glacier during the last Ice Age included much of Illinois (can't recall for sure, but probably Rock Island, Bloomington, and Decatur - certainly the Chicago-land schools).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 13, 2018, 09:57:39 AM
Bob Jones!  I may be the only one who thinks this is funny, but Bob Jones used to have an e-mail or phone that was something like 1-800-BJ-FOR-ME.

I must assume that the Bob Jones lifestyle comes with a certain naivete and that who ever registered that phone number just did not get it.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 13, 2018, 01:06:33 PM
Another change coming next year, in case you all missed the breaking news over the weekend: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Stoppable on August 13, 2018, 05:00:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on August 12, 2018, 11:02:13 PM
Not sure whether the CCIW could have used such an 'excuse' to exclude the W!  Probably not - the "Wisconsin" glacier during the last Ice Age included much of Illinois (can't recall for sure, but probably Rock Island, Bloomington, and Decatur - certainly the Chicago-land schools).

Why would they want to exclude the W? ??? Being associated with the best state only increases the conference's prestige. ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 13, 2018, 07:40:38 PM
Fromage? Yes. Prestige? No. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AndOne on August 13, 2018, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: Ryan Stoppable on August 13, 2018, 05:00:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on August 12, 2018, 11:02:13 PM
Not sure whether the CCIW could have used such an 'excuse' to exclude the W!  Probably not - the "Wisconsin" glacier during the last Ice Age included much of Illinois (can't recall for sure, but probably Rock Island, Bloomington, and Decatur - certainly the Chicago-land schools).

Why would they want to exclude the W? ??? Being associated with the best state only increases the conference's prestige. ;D

🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄
🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀
;D

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AndOne on August 13, 2018, 10:48:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 11, 2018, 05:08:39 PM
Quote from: guest323 on August 11, 2018, 10:32:55 AM
not sure if it's on here, but I'm hearing that Bob Jones U is going D3 in the near future
Yes, they are in the exploratory year.

However, there are no tributaries of the Mississippi or Missouri Rivers near the Bob Jones U campus, so they will need to find another conference.
;)   ;D   :)  ::)

Perhaps they could join a new conference which is in it's formative stages.
The Netflix and Chill Conference.........Where at all conference member institutions, the phrase is taken literally. 😌
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 13, 2018, 10:57:32 PM
If only that was what Netflix and Chill meant to the younger generation. LOL

Now THAT would make for a very interesting conference. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 15, 2018, 03:39:05 PM
Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
Pratt joins the ACAA (exploratory member in 2018-19)
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
St. Thomas (TX) joins the SCAC (exploratory member in 2018-19)
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ACAA
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying, assumed approval at this point)
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 15, 2018, 04:03:08 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on July 18, 2018, 12:58:28 PM
Also missing Alfred St leaving ACAA for AMCC in 19-20
Still missing the Alfred St move. http://www.alfredstateathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180625m5gvex (http://www.alfredstateathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180625m5gvex)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 16, 2018, 01:29:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 15, 2018, 03:39:05 PM

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019

Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

MUW Owls are starting up a men's basketball program this year.
http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 17, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on August 16, 2018, 01:29:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 15, 2018, 03:39:05 PM

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019

Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

MUW Owls are starting up a men's basketball program this year.
http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule

Seriously, I' interested in the background of what's going on at MUW... they have rosters for 5 men's sports, including a +20 member baseball team... the men's basketball schedule is very legit, the new Men's coach is well experienced at the D3 level...  what draws men to the Mississippi University for Women (besides the obvious reference to women)?  How long have men been admitted?   Will a name change be considered now that the school is co-ed?  And is the next step D3 provisional for men's sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 17, 2018, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: hopefan on August 17, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on August 16, 2018, 01:29:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 15, 2018, 03:39:05 PM

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019

Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

MUW Owls are starting up a men's basketball program this year.
http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule

Seriously, I' interested in the background of what's going on at MUW... they have rosters for 5 men's sports, including a +20 member baseball team... the men's basketball schedule is very legit, the new Men's coach is well experienced at the D3 level...  what draws men to the Mississippi University for Women (besides the obvious reference to women)?  How long have men been admitted?   Will a name change be considered now that the school is co-ed?  And is the next step D3 provisional for men's sports?
Men have been admitted since 1982 after a court case that went to the Supreme Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_University_for_Women_v._Hogan) and currently make up about 1/5 of the student body.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 20, 2018, 04:31:48 PM
http://www.uttylerpatriots.com/news/articles/2018-19/7274/ut-tyler-to-join-lone-star-conference/

UT-Tyler to the Lone Star Conference.

The Lone Star Conference has subsumed the (D-2) Heartland Conference and now will have 20 members!

I am not sure where Newman University (Heartland Conference) in Wichita KS will go.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 20, 2018, 04:56:24 PM
The old Missouri Intercollegiate Athletic Association has an even number, but they are losing yet another Missouri school to the GLVC (Southwest Baptist) to give them nine members, so they would probably love to have another Kansas school.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 20, 2018, 11:41:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 20, 2018, 04:31:48 PM
http://www.uttylerpatriots.com/news/articles/2018-19/7274/ut-tyler-to-join-lone-star-conference/

UT-Tyler to the Lone Star Conference.

The Lone Star Conference has subsumed the (D-2) Heartland Conference and now will have 20 members!

I am not sure where Newman University (Heartland Conference) in Wichita KS will go.

To Michigan, of course, where the bottle-deposit refund is higher:

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/RuGXtje88dI/AAAAAAAACOg/1fpnRQbMdhM/s400/Seinfeld_s7e22.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on August 21, 2018, 08:59:51 AM
^^^ +1K for that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 22, 2018, 04:07:35 PM
I on case no one saw the tweets or the front page: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/09/benedictine-to-return-to-d3
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 25, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
How do you think D3 will handle Benedictine? Will they welcome them back ith open arms and let them bypass any provisional periods or will they say, "You left us, now you get to suffer" and make them go through the whole process again? How about the NACC? Two divisions in the future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2018, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 25, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
How do you think D3 will handle Benedictine? Will they welcome them back ith open arms and let them bypass any provisional periods or will they say, "You left us, now you get to suffer" and make them go through the whole process again? How about the NACC? Two divisions in the future?
The geographical factors in Chicagoland are different from the southwest.

By the time that McMurry was coming back to D-3, the SCAC (Trinity, Southwestern, Colorado College and Austin College) had figured whom they would invite from the ASC to join the SCAC.  Now the SCAC is becoming a strong balanced 10-team conference.

The ASC needed football-playing McMurry. (Remember when the ASC was a Pool B conference from 2015 to 2017.)

We will see how this works out. I will let the locals in Chicago tell me who it is going.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 25, 2018, 01:58:59 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2018, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 25, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
How do you think D3 will handle Benedictine? Will they welcome them back ith open arms and let them bypass any provisional periods or will they say, "You left us, now you get to suffer" and make them go through the whole process again? How about the NACC? Two divisions in the future?
The geographical factors in Chicagoland are different from the southwest.

By the time that McMurry was coming back to D-3, the SCAC (Trinity, Southwestern, Colorado College and Austin College) had figured whom they would invite from the ASC to join the SCAC.  Now the SCAC is becoming a strong balanced 10-team conference.

The ASC needed football-playing McMurry. (Remember when the ASC was a Pool B conference from 2015 to 2017.)

We will see how this works out. I will let the locals in Chicago tell me who it is going.

McMurray also had been gone four or five years making themselves a full fledge member of DII. DIII handled them like a new school, period.

As for Benedictine and the NCAA, there are two choices:
- You will remain a full-fledge member of DIII since you never technically left. However, we need you to produce all the violations you have encured transitioning to DII (not financial from what I've been told). We will mull over punishments and let you know. The NCAA also has to decide if Benedictine will be retroactively allowed to participate in DIII championship tournaments this year (which they had initially been told they would not be allowed to do).
- You have started the transition and thus we feel you are no longer a DIII institution. You must start the process of being enrolled in DIII which we know is a four to five year process (though, Benedictine could easily skip a year or two and be back in three).

Personally, I think it will be the first option. I think Benedictine wants the first option even if they miss out on NCAA Championship Tournaments this year - it is better than three or more years of missed tournaments. They take their lumps and move forward.

As for the NACC, that will be their conference. I don't see that changing. That said, I am told there are some in the NACC who apparently have had issues - I think from a selfish point of view - so that could easily change the landscape a bit. I hope smarter heads prevail and Benedictine is "welcomed back" warmly and we all move forward.

The school meant well and I don't think they need to be punished outside of the rules they possible "broke" while starting the transition.

BTW - Frostburg if you are watching ... be careful. I think FSU is taking on DII in a wholly bad way and this should be a cautionary tale for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2018, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 25, 2018, 01:58:59 PM
BTW - Frostburg if you are watching ... be careful. I think FSU is taking on DII in a wholly bad way and this should be a cautionary tale for them.

If they care, they've seen it. If not, I don't think it needs to keep being mentioned.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 25, 2018, 06:55:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2018, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 25, 2018, 01:58:59 PM
BTW - Frostburg if you are watching ... be careful. I think FSU is taking on DII in a wholly bad way and this should be a cautionary tale for them.

If they care, they've seen it. If not, I don't think it needs to keep being mentioned.

Tweeted it once; posted on the board once. Learned that not everyone follows both like you and I. Figured it was safe to say again in a different environment.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 11, 2018, 05:33:35 PM
Are teams in the provisional pipeline eligible for the Top 25?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 11, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on October 11, 2018, 05:33:35 PM
Are teams in the provisional pipeline eligible for the Top 25?

If they are provisional or part of the four year process, no.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2018, 08:31:49 PM
this was announced a couple weeks ago but I guess it slipped through the cracks at this busy time of year, not exactly earth-shattering news but still: the NAC attempts to keep at least one foot out of the grave by adding SUNY Delhi. Those are gonna be some long and cold road trips.

https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20181130fhogxk
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2018, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2018, 08:31:49 PM
this was announced a couple weeks ago but I guess it slipped through the cracks at this busy time of year, not exactly earth-shattering news but still: the NAC attempts to keep at least one foot out of the grave by adding SUNY Delhi. Those are gonna be some long and cold road trips.

https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20181130fhogxk

I would argue the NAC is far from being "in the grave." They have added three or four schools in the last year or two including this decision by Delhi.

Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference. From what I've been able to put together ... they've got a good plan. It is other conferences that need to be worried about their future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2018, 06:38:17 AM

Delhi is going to give Canton a travel partner.  I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get ME-Ft. Kent into the NCAA fold soon for the same reason.  This year, every time Canton travels, they play the same team, on the road, on back to back night; UMPI has a few of those built in, too.  They're trading two road games with some teams for two home games with others - presumably with the reverse next year.

Having Delhi solves a geography problem for them, not creates one.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on December 13, 2018, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2018, 06:38:17 AM

Delhi is going to give Canton a travel partner.  I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get ME-Ft. Kent into the NCAA fold soon for the same reason.  This year, every time Canton travels, they play the same team, on the road, on back to back night; UMPI has a few of those built in, too.  They're trading two road games with some teams for two home games with others - presumably with the reverse next year.

Having Delhi solves a geography problem for them, not creates one.

Delhi to Canton... a white knuckle drive from the heart of the Catskills to the Northern Adirondacks.. 210miles of narrow snow covered roads through the mountains with steep drop offs. And the teams that have to do this have already bussed from a far off New England location. Yikes. 

Having been to Delhi, I'll again advertise... one of the prettiest gymnasium settings you will ever see...the campus is on a mountainside overlooking the town, and the gym and it's parking is at the highest point of the campus... gorgeous views.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sunny on December 13, 2018, 11:16:27 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2018, 10:20:55 PM
Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference.

So, what you're saying is that you can expect this conference to come NAC'ing on more doors?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2018, 11:33:06 AM
Quote from: sunny on December 13, 2018, 11:16:27 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2018, 10:20:55 PM
Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference.

So, what you're saying is that you can expect this conference to come NAC'ing on more doors?

it feels like this move only really makes sense if they're planning on adding others between Canton and Delhi (say, SUNY Poly and Morrisville State) and maybe doing a thing where the New York and Maine schools don't have to travel to each other except for the conference tournaments. I think that ties in nicely to what Dave posted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2018, 02:22:31 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2018, 11:33:06 AM
Quote from: sunny on December 13, 2018, 11:16:27 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2018, 10:20:55 PM
Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference.

So, what you're saying is that you can expect this conference to come NAC'ing on more doors?

it feels like this move only really makes sense if they're planning on adding others between Canton and Delhi (say, SUNY Poly and Morrisville State) and maybe doing a thing where the New York and Maine schools don't have to travel to each other except for the conference tournaments. I think that ties in nicely to what Dave posted.

They are geographically set up well for two divisions, if they can find the right schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2018, 04:11:40 PM
Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2018, 05:52:04 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2018, 04:11:40 PM
Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close

Always a shame when this happens, and it's been happening frequently lately in that part of the world, and will continue to happen, I'm afraid. In the D3 realm, Newbury won the NECC regular season and tournament titles in men's soccer last month.

Additionally, it does not appear that the NECC will face losing any of their Pool A bids due to this news.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2018, 03:24:24 PM

In the last five years or so, Massachusetts said to itself, "Why the heck aren't our state schools better, bigger, and more attractive to our own students?"  They've been making it more and more difficult on small liberal arts schools and funneling students into the public system.  There are so many tiny schools in Massachusetts, it's going to take a toll (at it already is, obviously).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on February 02, 2019, 12:12:39 AM
Keuka will become the ninth member of the Empire 8 in 2020. The NEAC will have five teams in the North Division and seven in the South once Penn State-Harrisburg returns, but I can't see any of the South teams volunteering to shift to the North Division and join all the Upstate NY teams.

https://empire8.com/news/2019/1/30/general-keuka-college-to-join-the-empire-8-conference-beginning-in-the-fall-of-2020.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2019, 11:25:06 AM
Keuka was certainly one of the schools I thought the E8 had to be looking at, but I would have guessed Wells would have been added either with or instead of.

E8 still needs to do something about baseball, will be down to 5 teams next season and only up to 6 for 2021. Make that 4 and 5 if Ithaca's affiliation agreement is ending soon (which I certainly hope it is).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2019, 03:09:57 PM
New Rochelle will in all likelihood close at semester's end. Going co-ed was not enough to save them. Very sad.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/education/2019/02/25/college-new-rochelle-mercy-partnership/2978552002/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on February 28, 2019, 03:19:57 PM
CNR was Scranton's opponent when its women won the NCAA championship in 1985.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2019, 04:51:42 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2019, 03:09:57 PM
New Rochelle will in all likelihood close at semester's end. Going co-ed was not enough to save them. Very sad.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/education/2019/02/25/college-new-rochelle-mercy-partnership/2978552002/

I'm not sure going co-ed had anything to do with not paying $20m in taxes, but its a struggle for under-endowed small schools these days.  It certainly won't be the last.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 01:54:09 AM
I just read the agenda for the Feb 20-21 membership committee meeting. It indicates that St. Thomas (TX), Pratt, and Mississippi University for Women have submitted applications for provisional membership. Another section lists departing members; besides the known departures of Newbury, Frostburg State, and Thomas More, apparently Staten Island has applied to D2. I can't find anything on this elsewhere.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 07:54:26 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 01:54:09 AM
I just read the agenda for the Feb 20-21 membership committee meeting. It indicates that St. Thomas (TX), Pratt, and Mississippi University for Women have submitted applications for provisional membership. Another section lists departing members; besides the known departures of Newbury, Frostburg State, and Thomas More, apparently Staten Island has applied to D2. I can't find anything on this elsewhere.

They have a submission page on their website where people can ask questions about their "intended move to Division II."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 08:54:47 AM
I didn't see that coming about CSI at all. I presume their target is the ECC, which is getting low on members. Honestly I thought it was more likely that Queens would pull out of D2 ECC and join CUNYAC than Staten Island doing the reverse.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 10:38:49 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 08:54:47 AM
I didn't see that coming about CSI at all. I presume their target is the ECC, which is getting low on members. Honestly I thought it was more likely that Queens would pull out of D2 ECC and join CUNYAC than Staten Island doing the reverse.

Sometimes schools think it'll help enrollment and the bottom line to be able to offer partial athletic scholarships.  Every kid getting a 1/4th scholarship has to come up with the other 3/4ths right?  I don't know.  It sort of hit everybody by surprise.  I've been able to find no details at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 02:08:30 PM
They just published this on their website today: https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx

"The application comes with an invitation for the College of Staten Island to join the East Coast Conference (ECC), potentially becoming their tenth member institution."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 02:32:54 PM
So they may or may not be eligible for CUNYAC Pool A bids and/or NCAA Tournaments via Pool C in 2019-20.

CUNYAC will go through the 2-year grace period and then slot into Pool B in men's tennis, women's tennis, women's soccer and softball.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 02:35:17 PM
If they're accepted to D2, they'll begin the transition in 2019–20 and be ineligible for D3 championships. Frostburg State will be on the same transition schedule despite moving to their new conference a year sooner.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2019, 12:37:08 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 02:35:17 PM
If they're accepted to D2, they'll begin the transition in 2019–20 and be ineligible for D3 championships. Frostburg State will be on the same transition schedule despite moving to their new conference a year sooner.

No ... UT-Tyler did a transition this year. They played a full DIII schedule and were DIII members while preparing for DII. Benedictine planned the same thing until reversing course.

Frostburg is NOT transitioning. They are going in full to DII - IF accepted - next season.

From what I read about CSI, they too are going full into DII - though they will honor their DIII schedules next season and start DII conference play the next year ... but they plan to be a DII member next season - again IF accepted. That would mean they would NOT be eligible for DIII post season next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 02, 2019, 02:58:53 AM
I meant that Frostburg State and Staten Island, if accepted to Division II, will both be in the first year of reclassifying to Division II next season (on track to become eligible for DII championships in 2022–23), despite the fact that Frostburg will be playing a Division II schedule while CSI plays a DIII schedule.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
From Ron Boerger...

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2019, 11:26:44 AM
Southern Vermont College is shutting down at the end of the semester.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/03/04/southern-vermont-latest-small-college-close

Hard to believe a school this small (400 enrollment after recent declines) was able to support 13 sports.

SVC is a member for the NECC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 11:59:29 AM
Reminding readers that Newbury is closing this year too...

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2018, 04:11:40 PM
Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close

The NECC will be down to 7.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2019, 01:19:05 PM
Man that sucks. I'm getting bummed out reading these stories feels like every week now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2019, 01:22:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
From Ron Boerger...

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2019, 11:26:44 AM
Southern Vermont College is shutting down at the end of the semester.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/03/04/southern-vermont-latest-small-college-close

Hard to believe a school this small (400 enrollment after recent declines) was able to support 13 sports.

SVC is a member for the NECC.

I'm sure the school actually *needed* 13 sports to support itself. I wonder how much of the student population played intercollegiate athletics.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2019, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 11:59:29 AM
Reminding readers that Newbury is closing this year too...

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2018, 04:11:40 PM
Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close

The NECC will be down to 7.

Men's volleyball and women's lacrosse will each be down to 6 teams, grace period begins next season, Pool B in spring '22, unless of course there are additions.

Bay Path allows the women's side of the league to have a little more breathing room, but men's soccer, men's basketball and baseball will be at the AQ minimum of 7.

The NECC should call Pine Manor's president and AD, like, this afternoon.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 04, 2019, 01:56:23 PM
Green Mountain College, who left the NAC for the NAIA last year, is also closing.

http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/news/green-mountain-college-plans-to-close-after-spring-semester.htm
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
I've tried to catch up, let me know if I missed anything.

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
I've tried to catch up, let me know if I missed anything.

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes

Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8

Three closures...
Three moves to D2...

Belhaven moves to Active status.

Down 5 schools...

Does that change the number of bids that we have in any sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 05:03:47 PM
I think the access ratio is 6.5:1, so the magic number is 416.
Per the pre-championship manual we had 420 eligible institutions in 2019. Minus five is 415.
We might be in trouble for two years until Brevard, Dean, and Pfeiffer go to full membership. Unless another women's school goes coed this offseason.
Any chance the NCAA gives a grace period on bids? I'd hate to go back to 19 Pool C's.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 04, 2019, 05:41:38 PM
Texas–Tyler is already in the first year of provisional D2 membership, so they shouldn't be counted as a loss for next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 04, 2019, 05:41:38 PM
Texas–Tyler is already in the first year of provisional D2 membership, so they shouldn't be counted as a loss for next year.

It looks like you are correct. Texas-Tyler was already pulled out and accounted for in the 420 number, so right now we're looking at 416 schools for 2019-2020. That should be above the ratio line for 64 bids.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 04, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2019, 06:11:10 PM
There are some compelling reasons behind an eight-school SUNYAC West and an eight-school SUNYAC East, geography and weather being two of them. New York state is very large, and the roads upstate are always an adventure during winter. But there are a lot of other pro and con factors involved.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 04, 2019, 06:33:59 PM
Yeah that 400 mile saturday night bus trip from Fredonia to Plattsburgh in a snowstorm is a real attraction...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2019, 11:28:04 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2019, 06:11:10 PM
There are some compelling reasons behind an eight-school SUNYAC West and an eight-school SUNYAC East, geography and weather being two of them. New York state is very large, and the roads upstate are always an adventure during winter. But there are a lot of other pro and con factors involved.
That shuffling would affect several conferences in the region.

Can someone propose the mission/vision issues that would align the like-minded institutions in those 2 conferences, and then propose the prospective memberships?

As I understand it, a conference needs 4 core members to maintain the AQ bid when affiliates take the conference up to the mandated 7 schools.

A conference also needs 1 sport in each season and 5 sports total.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 04, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Which teams are you going to tell have to lose their AQ opportunity and sit for two years with no automatic qualifier? The ideas are always great until schools have to face the reality of no AQ.

Forming a new conference is one thing. Those institutions are trying to do something different and understand the risks and losses when making that decision - usually forming with a whole new group. Splitting a conference to try and get a second AQ is a different conversation. They aren't forming something new to do something different in their minds. They are still partnered with their "friends" in the conference. They are simply split out and lose the AQ because of a decision to split. In the meantime, the other half of the conference still gets the AQ and have no risk in the move.

USA South is dealing with the same dilemma. There is a real chance the USA South splits into two conferences - but how to break that up and who to have "punished" for two years is a real challenge to overcome.

Imagine being in that AD or President's shoes when thinking about the idea of a split.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2019, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 04, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Which teams are you going to tell have to lose their AQ opportunity and sit for two years with no automatic qualifier? The ideas are always great until schools have to face the reality of no AQ.

Forming a new conference is one thing. Those institutions are trying to do something different and understand the risks and losses when making that decision - usually forming with a whole new group. Splitting a conference to try and get a second AQ is a different conversation. They aren't forming something new to do something different in their minds. They are still partnered with their "friends" in the conference. They are simply split out and lose the AQ because of a decision to split. In the meantime, the other half of the conference still gets the AQ and have no risk in the move.

USA South is dealing with the same dilemma. There is a real chance the USA South splits into two conferences - but how to break that up and who to have "punished" for two years is a real challenge to overcome.

Imagine being in that AD or President's shoes when thinking about the idea of a split.

If both conferences do it at the same time, it might mean an extra Pool B bid, which would help them out a little.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2019, 12:49:57 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2019, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 04, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Which teams are you going to tell have to lose their AQ opportunity and sit for two years with no automatic qualifier? The ideas are always great until schools have to face the reality of no AQ.

Forming a new conference is one thing. Those institutions are trying to do something different and understand the risks and losses when making that decision - usually forming with a whole new group. Splitting a conference to try and get a second AQ is a different conversation. They aren't forming something new to do something different in their minds. They are still partnered with their "friends" in the conference. They are simply split out and lose the AQ because of a decision to split. In the meantime, the other half of the conference still gets the AQ and have no risk in the move.

USA South is dealing with the same dilemma. There is a real chance the USA South splits into two conferences - but how to break that up and who to have "punished" for two years is a real challenge to overcome.

Imagine being in that AD or President's shoes when thinking about the idea of a split.

If both conferences do it at the same time, it might mean an extra Pool B bid, which would help them out a little.

Well they would have to do it at the same time, but one of the two sides is maintaining the Pool A bid. And we saw this year in Marymount women that the Pool B bid isn't always a guarantee.

Every time I talk to schools debating moves like this (or those in the CAC who are about to fall back into Pool B making your thought more challenging for a split), the concern is about losing the AQ and not sure they can get in on Pool B considering the situations out there. That also becomes a recruiting conversation. "We have a conference championship, but for the next two years it doesn't get us into the tournament. Let me explain ..."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 06, 2019, 01:40:14 PM
So what you are saying if a University system rounded up all their teams into two conferences, that they should be penalized.

SUNY will have 16 D-III teams.

WIAC has 8.

No one wants a 15 team unbalanced schedule.

The conferences that lose the random SUNY schools have more to lose.  [e.g. NEAC].

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 01:58:32 PM
As interesting as I find the idea of all D3 State University of New York schools north of the Bronx coming together into two leagues under the aegis of the SUNYAC, since you've brought up the WIAC as a comparison it should be noted that the WIAC no longer contains all of the D3 members of the University of Wisconsin System. A few years ago, UW-Superior dropped out of the WIAC and joined the UMAC, reducing the WIAC from nine members to eight.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 06, 2019, 01:40:14 PM
So what you are saying if a University system rounded up all their teams into two conferences, that they should be penalized.

SUNY will have 16 D-III teams.

WIAC has 8.

No one wants a 15 team unbalanced schedule.

The conferences that lose the random SUNY schools have more to lose.  [e.g. NEAC].

I don't believe I am saying anything of the sort.

I am saying that a number of years ago the SUNYAC was formed. They have an AQ. If the idea is now to split it because of geography, travel, etc., who would anyone choose to have to go through the two years of no AQ?

By NCAA/DIII rule, the original conference gets to keep it's AQ as long as it still has a core membership. Consider that solved. The new conference would have to wait two years. What schools are you choosing (and telling) to sit those two years on the "outside" of the process?

That is why a lot of these conference scenarios end up unraveling. Sitting for two years without an AQ is a significant step and risk to take in all sports. Understanding the landscape and reality can be difficult when it comes to 28 championships in DIII.

So the idea to split is nice ... but it isn't that realistic is what I am actually saying.

BTW - why does no one want an unbalanced schedule? ODAC and others play with it and it seems to work quite nicely for a large conference. Why does no one want that as opposed to the SUNYAC structure right now?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 06, 2019, 02:21:41 PM
Any thoughts/rumors on what the CAC looks like down the road?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on March 06, 2019, 02:21:41 PM
Any thoughts/rumors on what the CAC looks like down the road?

Simple - they will eventually slide into Pool B, but if they are smart they will NOT disband. It is more important to stay together as a conference even if they don't have AQs than to disband. If they stay together, they can be a home for schools that need one eventually (more on that in a moment), they keep a seat at the NCAA table (or they are small, separate entities without much say), and they provide a home for awards for each sport and trophies to compete for each season.

There are some players I think available if they want to take the leap, but it would be a significant shift in the region for a few schools. I know they have been courted and I know discussions have taken place. The question becomes if their situations as programs are as frustrating as I hear from time to time. I will not say who those programs are as I don't think at this juncture that is helpful.

There has also been rumor of a merger with the NJAC, but I don't see any chance that happens. Why would schools like Ramapo suddenly be interested in extending their travel for games down to CNU when they, at most, are headed to Rowan or Stockton?

The CAC will also keep an eye out to the south. What happens with the USA South could help them, though many in the USA South have no interest in being with CNU. That said, there are some schools that could come into DIII and that's why the CAC staying together would be helpful. It would provide a place for schools to join that is not the USA South (or whatever becomes of that conference in the future).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
BTW - why does no one want an unbalanced schedule? ODAC and others play with it and it seems to work quite nicely for a large conference. Why does no one want that as opposed to the SUNYAC structure right now?

I must be misunderstanding what you mean by an "unbalanced schedule," because I can't believe that you're overlooking the merits of a double round-robin.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:41:20 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 02:34:40 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
BTW - why does no one want an unbalanced schedule? ODAC and others play with it and it seems to work quite nicely for a large conference. Why does no one want that as opposed to the SUNYAC structure right now?

I must be misunderstanding what you mean by an "unbalanced schedule," because I can't believe that you're overlooking the merits of a double round-robin.

I am not overlooking anything. I do feel that if a conference gets too large the double round-robin becomes detrimental in the large picture, but that doesn't mean I don't understand and appreciate why conferences like the ASC continue with the practice.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 02:52:06 PM
I don't think that a double round-robin is ever detrimental. It's the fairest and best way to determine a conference champion, and conference play should always take primacy. Sure, we'd all like bigger non-conference databases for leagues such as the MIAC for regional ranking purposes, but the MIAC people feel that their league comes first. I respect that way of thinking.

I do understand the difficulty inherent for a very large league that has an odd number of teams, thereby precluding a clean separation into divisions, so I'm not dogmatic about this when it comes to the ODAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 06, 2019, 03:09:18 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 01:58:32 PM
As interesting as I find the idea of all D3 State University of New York schools north of the Bronx coming together into two leagues under the aegis of the SUNYAC, since you've brought up the WIAC as a comparison it should be noted that the WIAC no longer contains all of the D3 members of the University of Wisconsin System. A few years ago, UW-Superior dropped out of the WIAC and joined the UMAC, reducing the WIAC from nine members to eight.

something similar did happen in the SUNYAC maybe 10 years ago or so. Morrisville State came up from the JUCO ranks in the mid-00s and immediately joined the SUNYAC; within about 2-3 years it was clear to everyone they were way over their head. Something like 2 conference wins in 3 years across the entire athletic department, combined. They amicably left to join the NEAC and were allowed to stay as a men's ice hockey affiliate member in exchange for also remaining as a field hockey affiliate (where they always get mollywhomped) so the league could keep the Pool A bid.

At the same time, the artists formerly known as SUNYIT** (now SUNY Poly) announced they couldn't keep up with the rest of the SUNYAC and were bouncing to the NEAC as well. Their name became kinda mud with the other SUNYAC schools subsequently.

Due to Mooville's difficulty transitioning, when Cobleskill, Canton and Alfred State (and most recently Delhi) came up from JUCO, the SUNYAC did not consider them for membership. This very much seems to have been the right call. Canton in the NAC and ASC in the AMCC seem like good homes. Cobleskill had OK men's basketball for a little while but just isn't competitively ready. Delhi, even if they do everything right through their transition period, is a decade away at least.

Ironically, I now think Morrisville State is on much better footing and doing so well in the NEAC that they could handle getting called back up. Poly I dunno. IIRC part of the problem was that they didn't really support/fund their non-basketball sports.

**I notice that the entire D3Network uses the SUNYIT name, which they abandoned back around 2014 for SUNY Poly. The sites also invariably call RIT "Rochester Tech," a name I have never seen nor heard used anywhere else. I wonder if Pat and crew might look into that during some down time this spring or summer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: fantastic50 on March 06, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 02:52:06 PM
I don't think that a double round-robin is ever detrimental. It's the fairest and best way to determine a conference champion, and conference play should always take primacy.

When the presidents and faculty reps look at scheduling, it's usually through the lens of travel costs and missed class time.  For conferences that are geographically spread out, there is some appeal to playing more nearby non-conference games instead of second meetings with far-flung conference peers.  The NCAC went this route for a while in basketball, avoiding the home-and-home series between Allegheny/Hiram and Wabash/DePauw.  However, the league eventually returned to a full double round robin, with each pair of perimeter schools making an annual trip to play other pair back-to-back.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2019, 03:53:32 PM
Rochester Tech was how they were listed in AP scoreboards for ... decades, well before we started the website, and we used that nomenclature that people at the time would have been familiar with from perusing the scores listing in their newspaper.

On SUNY Utica-Rome, SUNYIT, SUNY Poly ... I guess I thought they might well change their name again and we would just wait for the next iteration. Every change of a school name on our site is a massive undertaking, which is part of the reason we don't list schools with "College" or "University" unless it is needed to distinguish two similarly named schools from each other.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 11, 2019, 10:13:26 PM
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2019D3Memb_Report.pdf

The applications of St. Thomas (TX), Pratt, and MUW have been approved and they will begin the provisional process this fall.

In other news, the committee recommended legislation to make third- and fourth-year provisional schools count towards a conference's minimum of seven, except for a newly formed conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2019, 07:48:04 AM
Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 12, 2019, 08:24:37 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2019, 07:48:04 AM


Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven - ASC)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer  all 3 for USAC)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) - SCAC)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) - SCAC, Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Do Bob Jones and Warren Wilson land in the USAC?

Does the USAC  have enough teams by 2022 to split into 2 conferences?

Who wants Mississippi University for Women? They are a state school in the middle of D3-No-where.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2019, 09:17:02 AM
So if my Lakeland math is correct, the NECC will be down to 7 teams. Are they going to try to get more teams?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2019, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2019, 09:17:02 AM
So if my Lakeland math is correct, the NECC will be down to 7 teams. Are they going to try to get more teams?

I think this will be an issue ongoing for them. They were a stepping stone conference for Regis and an entry-to-D3 conference for Dean, not to mention a home for schools that apparently cannot afford to be open.

I was interviewed for a story by WGBH radio in Boston about this and Division III and higher education. Expecting to see/hear it in the next week and a half, but my understanding is the NECC declined to comment for the piece. It has to be challenging times for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2019, 11:18:28 AM
What made Eastern Nazarene move from the CCC to the NECC? I wonder if they're regretting that move, if it was their choice.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2019, 11:20:16 AM
Ryan Scott would be closer to that situation than I, but I believe it was an attempt to be more competitive across the board.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2019, 02:43:16 PM
Perhaps Ryan's national notoriety and the fact that he's an Eastern Nazarene alumnus is forcing his alma mater to step up its game in terms of wins and losses. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2019, 02:43:16 PM
Perhaps Ryan's national notoriety and the fact that he's an Eastern Nazarene alumnus is forcing his alma mater to step up its game in terms of wins and losses. ;)

Sheesh .. that would be great for him and them. One would argue it hasn't done jack for me. ;) (For those associated with my alma mater, I am kidding. Tongue firmly in cheek.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2019, 11:21:09 PM
I set that one up for you on a tee, and you knocked it out of the park, Dave.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2019, 11:18:28 AM
What made Eastern Nazarene move from the CCC to the NECC? I wonder if they're regretting that move, if it was their choice.

ENC is (and always has been) financially outclassed in the CCC.  Facilities and budget were just not competitive.  The President and new Athletic Director, I think, decided it would be more beneficial to be competitive than lose in a more respected league.  ENC has only won the league championship once - across every sport they offer over 25+ years in the CCC.

The CCC has continually pushed members to add sports and increase spending and that's not a reality for ENC.  They've already added track and golf in recent years - and I believe some of ENC's sports were already NECC affiliates (maybe MVB?)

I doubt they anticipated losing two members this year, but it's certainly been a good move competitively.  Almost every sport has been near the top of the conference, which is a welcome change.  One of the prior coaches once told me he only recruited kids from outside New England, because he knew he could get them from the airport to the school and back and they wouldn't be close enough to see how much better all the other facilities were.  That's the situation; the schools in the middle of a residential neighborhood; there's only so much that can be done.

Winning also helps recruiting - both for athletes and non-athletes.  ENC has been in some financial difficulty recently, too, like lots of small NE school.  It's got a denominational affiliation that provides a little more cushion than some of these other institutions and there's a new President coming in this summer.  I think it'll be ok, but so long as we can all swallow our pride a little bit, it's going to be a positive move to the NECC.

(Historical point you may not all know, the CCC almost broke up a decade or so back, nine of the then 14 teams voted to leave and form their own conference, three of the remainders (mostly weaker programs) left for other places and ENC was left the lone member for a few months.  The breakaway nine came back to keep their AQs, but ENC was sort of the turd in the punchbowl after that.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 13, 2019, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2019, 11:21:09 PM
I set that one up for you on a tee, and you knocked it out of the park, Dave.

LOL It was too hard not to resist. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 09:57:33 AMI doubt they anticipated losing two members this year, but it's certainly been a good move competitively.  Almost every sport has been near the top of the conference, which is a welcome change.  One of the prior coaches once told me he only recruited kids from outside New England, because he knew he could get them from the airport to the school and back and they wouldn't be close enough to see how much better all the other facilities were.

That's a depressingly familiar story. Back before North Park finally built a competitive, state-of-the-art weight room in the new Helwig Rec Center a decade and a half ago, North Park's weight facilities weren't even up to typical high-school standards. The weight room was a dank basement chamber that was like something out of an old black-and-white horror film, and it was all strictly barbells and benches. Rather than show football prospects the weight room or the stadium, the football coaches used to bring them into the dining hall so that they could take a gander at all of the pretty Swedish-American coeds, figuring that the possibility of dating attractive blondes was probably the best selling point that the coaches had to offer as far as recruiting was concerned. I'm not kidding; there were a few times during my student days when we'd look over at the dining room entrance and see a bunch of burly teenaged strangers with mouths agape. The joke among North Park football coaches was that if a prospect asked to see the weight room, the best use of your time and effort would then be to take the road map out of your back pocket and show the kid the way to Rock Island and the Augustana campus. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 09:57:33 AMI doubt they anticipated losing two members this year, but it's certainly been a good move competitively.  Almost every sport has been near the top of the conference, which is a welcome change.  One of the prior coaches once told me he only recruited kids from outside New England, because he knew he could get them from the airport to the school and back and they wouldn't be close enough to see how much better all the other facilities were.

That's a depressingly familiar story. Back before North Park finally built a competitive, state-of-the-art weight room in the new Helwig Rec Center a decade and a half ago, North Park's weight facilities weren't even up to typical high-school standards. The weight room was a dank basement chamber that was like something out of an old black-and-white horror film, and it was all strictly barbells and benches. Rather than show football prospects the weight room or the stadium, the football coaches used to bring them into the dining hall so that they could take a gander at all of the pretty Swedish-American coeds, figuring that the possibility of dating attractive blondes was probably the best selling point that the coaches had to offer as far as recruiting was concerned. I'm not kidding; there were a few times during my student days when we'd look over at the dining room entrance and see a bunch of burly teenaged strangers with mouths agape. The joke among North Park football coaches was that if a prospect asked to see the weight room, the best use of your time and effort would then be to take the road map out of your back pocket and show the kid the way to Rock Island and the Augustana campus. ;)

ENC's campus is barely a square block.  Usually the recruiting highlight is the ten minute walk to the subway and the twenty minute ride to downtown Boston.  That sells a lot of prospective students.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 02:51:42 PM
Yep. Same deal with North Park. Five-minute walk to the el, a half-hour of viewing the North Side cityscape through the train window (including a glimpse of Wrigley Field), and then a tour of the Loop, the Mag Mile, and Millennium Park. It's the best sales pitch NPU has, athletics recruit or not.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 13, 2019, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 02:51:42 PM
Yep. Same deal with North Park. Five-minute walk to the el, a half-hour of viewing the North Side cityscape through the train window (including a glimpse of Wrigley Field), and then a tour of the Loop, the Mag Mile, and Millennium Park. It's the best sales pitch NPU has, athletics recruit or not.

My story of Chicago.....My daughter lived in Roscoe Village several years ago and became a Cubs fan. Then she moved to TN and lived in same complex as most of the Cub's AA farm team. She turned down a date with a player because he seemed "sketch". Said sketch player went on to play for Cubs with the name "Contreras" on his uniform. And now because of her decisions, I'm not retired!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 07:51:46 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on March 13, 2019, 04:54:37 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 02:51:42 PM
Yep. Same deal with North Park. Five-minute walk to the el, a half-hour of viewing the North Side cityscape through the train window (including a glimpse of Wrigley Field), and then a tour of the Loop, the Mag Mile, and Millennium Park. It's the best sales pitch NPU has, athletics recruit or not.

My story of Chicago.....My daughter lived in Roscoe Village several years ago and became a Cubs fan. Then she moved to TN and lived in same complex as most of the Cub's AA farm team. She turned down a date with a player because he seemed "sketch". Said sketch player went on to play for Cubs with the name "Contreras" on his uniform. And now because of her decisions, I'm not retired!

Ha! That's hilarious! Just wait until Willson Contreras becomes arbitration-eligible and is no longer making "peanuts" at the $605,000 major-league minimum!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jaller on March 16, 2019, 08:47:31 PM
I coached at ENC and was a big proponent of the move to the NECC. We simply were not going to be competitive in the CCC. We originally applied to the NECC in 2011 when it looked like the CCC was going to dissolve with the 9 schools breaking off to form a new conference (and Colby Sawyer, Regis and NEC moving to other conferences). At that point, we had nowhere to go, but fortunately for us, those 9 schools decided to bring us back and keep the CCC name. Crazy times.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 20, 2019, 03:37:00 PM
I know they're basically a catchall placeholder conference, but how long will the ACAA continue to exist?
Of the 6 teams they had this year, three are leaving (Thomas More to NAIA, Alfred St to AMCC, SUNY Delhi to NAC) leaving them with just Finlandia, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge. There isn't much in the independent ranks to try to bolster their numbers as New Rochelle is closing leaving just UC Santa Cruz and Maranatha Baptist as the only options (and I don't see either joining).
Are there enough schools in the pipeline still working out a permanent conference to keep the ACAA going for the near future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2019, 06:27:11 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 20, 2019, 03:37:00 PM
I know they're basically a catchall placeholder conference, but how long will the ACAA continue to exist?
Of the 6 teams they had this year, three are leaving (Thomas More to NAIA, Alfred St to AMCC, SUNY Delhi to NAC) leaving them with just Finlandia, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge. There isn't much in the independent ranks to try to bolster their numbers as New Rochelle is closing leaving just UC Santa Cruz and Maranatha Baptist as the only options (and I don't see either joining).
Are there enough schools in the pipeline still working out a permanent conference to keep the ACAA going for the near future?

I believe you have to have seven full-time members to be a conference.  I believe there's a two year grace period, if a conference falls under, to get back to the right size.  I suspect it's more likely the members will join other conferences or go back to being independent.  Pine Manor and Valley Forge have logical conferences near them - if they get their administrative houses in order.  Finlandia has been trying to get into the UMAC for a while; I suspect they'll keep at it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 20, 2019, 06:29:26 PM
Pratt is already a member, but since they'll only become an active D3 member in 2023–24, that doesn't help the ACAA at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 21, 2019, 02:06:10 PM
ACAA was only going to be a placeholder in the first place. I don't think anyone expected it to survive or be an AQ anyway.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on March 21, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
For what it's worth, there's always Trinity Washington University!  ;D

Seriously though, since there's zero chance of the NCAA making the ACAA official, why not just say "to heck with it", and join up with the undersized hybrid USCAA/NAIA conference in the area, the Northeastern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference?
http://www.niacsports.com/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 21, 2019, 04:01:04 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on March 21, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
For what it's worth, there's always Trinity Washington University!  ;D

Seriously though, since there's zero chance of the NCAA making the ACAA official, why not just say "to heck with it", and join up with the undersized hybrid USCAA/NAIA conference in the area, the Northeastern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference?
http://www.niacsports.com/

Because those games won't count. Better to be in a conference in DIII than to waste games. Don't have to go that far to see how it affected Nebraska Wesleyan for many years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2019, 07:48:04 AM


Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes


Are Bob Jones (Greenville SC) and Warren Wilson (near Asheville NC) plus Brevard and Pfeiffer enough for the USA South to split into 2 conferences in about 5 years?

Mississippi University of Women is isolated (in Columbus MS) and will be the only public university in D3 in this part of the country.  Would "New South D3 Conference" would want them for Pool A consideration?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 26, 2019, 12:07:15 PM
I think the USA South will split sooner than five years. From what I can tell, and heard, there is talk about a split. The question becomes when and who (though, it sounds like the "who" might be known).

The USA South seriously has to split sooner rather than later because it is getting too difficult in it's current structure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2019, 07:42:49 PM

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2019, 01:07:41 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2019, 07:42:49 PM

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.
The question that I ask from the other side of the table is, "How does CNU make my conference a stronger better conference?"

If I am looking at the private schools in NC, they have been here before, back in the Dixie IAC, when they needed as many bodies as they could find.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 27, 2019, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2019, 07:42:49 PM

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.

I will repeat this and continue to repeat this ... CAC isn't going anywhere. It might not have AQs, but most of the schools remaining have no where to go. Having a conference, even without AQs, is helpful for student-athlete, coaches awards and a seat at the table in the Division (versus being independent).

CNU is an issue just as Salisbury is because too many fear them and their budgets (or perceived advantages). That doesn't help, but at the same time some of that stuff is just reality. I also wish schools would stop ducking competition even if it is badder than you ... because ducking doesn't make one better.

Anyway... I don't feel the CAC will go anywhere. It doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Ryan, in your opinion, would SVU be a better fit with the USA South or the ODAC, (mission and vision...)?

Thx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 09:58:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Ryan, in your opinion, would SVU be a better fit with the USA South or the ODAC, (mission and vision...)?

Thx

Well, the ODAC's not really an option.  If the CAC is going to expand south a bit, they might as well stay.  Averett and NC Wesleyan aren't too far away.  Greensboro and William Peace could be options.  I don't really know enough about those schools to know who would fit well.  Whatever happens with the CAC is going to be a mish-mash, but the CAC has always been more about convenience than anything else.  They are going to have to do something.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2019, 08:26:51 AM

I guess CNU can survive as a Pool B team every year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2019, 08:46:42 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.

Wait a minute. So the CAC is losing it's AQ next year? They lose PS-Harrisburg and...York? I presume both those teams will remain NCAA tournament eligible, but maybe not new conference post-season eligible?

Edit: found in the conference changes Frostburg St was leaving D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2019, 09:20:42 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2019, 08:46:42 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.

Wait a minute. So the CAC is losing it's AQ next year? They lose PS-Harrisburg and...York? I presume both those teams will remain NCAA tournament eligible, but maybe not new conference post-season eligible?

Edit: found in the conference changes Frostburg St was leaving D3.

They won't lose the AQ immediately.  I believe you get two years with less than seven before they take the AQ away, so there's time for them to find a solution.  I've heard they're looking for teams within the footprint to apply to d3 - that might mean living in Pool B for a few years as they become full members.

I don't have the same kind of inside info Dave does about York, but everyone I've talked to from York talks like they'll have a new conference as soon as possible.  They're already living in a post-CAC world.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2019, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2019, 09:20:42 AM
They won't lose the AQ immediately.  I believe you get two years with less than seven before they take the AQ away, so there's time for them to find a solution.  I've heard they're looking for teams within the footprint to apply to d3 - that might mean living in Pool B for a few years as they become full members.

A likely source of incoming state schools are the fourteen branch campuses of the Penn State system that currently compete in the USCAA as the Penn State University Athletic Conference. They're all smaller than the five Penn State branch campuses that are currently D3 members (PSU-Abingdon, PSU-Altoona, PSU-Behrend, PSU-Berks, and PSU-Harrisburg). One of them, PSU-Brandywine (located in a Philly suburb), has the requisite number of athletic programs for D3 membership. Another, PSU-Mont Alto (located a half-hour's drive west of Gettysburg), has the requisite number of men's programs but is one short of the minimum required number of women's programs -- but women's golf would be a logical and inexpensive add-on (PSUMA already has a men's golf program).

Another PSUAC member, PSU-Schuykill, has the requisite number of programs, but it just was just accepted into a dual membership in the NAIA this past year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
Two things, first: the CAC won't lose it's AQ in sports like basketball for two seasons ONCE they drop below the minimum seven teams. They get two-year grace period before entering Pool B.

As for the state schools, there have been plenty of rumors that the PSU schools could transition, but I have checked on those rumors with those at PSU institutions and it doesn't seem to be coming any time soon - no one seems to see that coming.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 28, 2019, 04:16:16 PM
Rowan and Stockton might have shorter travel to some CAC schools than they do getting potentially getting stuck on the NJTP and GSP on the way to Ramapo and Willy P and NJCU.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 02, 2019, 02:53:17 PM
I've read today on these boards and via official link that York to the MAC Commonwealth in 2020-21 is a full go.

I wonder if a Commonwealth school will end up moving to the Freedom to balance out 9 and 9 or if they stay with 10 and 8. I believe Dave once said the other conferences in the region don't like to see MAC teams hopping back and forth and could make trouble for them with the NCAA if they do.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2019, 03:16:53 PM
Yes ... I am not sure a conference switch will go over well. Not only in the region, but elsewhere this has been started to be viewed upon as not treating the two conferences as ... two conferences and that flies in the face of what other conferences have to deal with.

I am not sure if anyone switches. Personally, one school comes to mind, but I am not sure if it would happen (they also already switched from the Freedom to the Commonwealth a few years ago). If it where to happen ... watch the reactions carefully.

I think it is more likely some schools in the MAC leave. I do not think the vote to bring York in was unanimous. That isn't anything against York, I think some egos and thoughts are screwed up when it comes to how York is perceived ... or how some schools perceive themselves.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on April 03, 2019, 08:20:03 AM
Do you think that with the addition of York that the AEC might pick up a school or two from the MAC? I know Arcadia was one of the schools that had some plans to join the AEC. But that didn't pan out for reasons. Could those conversations begin anew and would other schools move to the AEC with the automatic bid coming into affect in the 2020-21 school year?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 03, 2019, 11:25:02 AM

Another move:

https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/


St. Norbert to the NACC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 03, 2019, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: mailsy on April 03, 2019, 08:20:03 AM
Do you think that with the addition of York that the AEC might pick up a school or two from the MAC? I know Arcadia was one of the schools that had some plans to join the AEC. But that didn't pan out for reasons. Could those conversations begin anew and would other schools move to the AEC with the automatic bid coming into affect in the 2020-21 school year?

I doubt you'd lure any MAC schools.  The Freedom's got a nice geographic footprint and the Commonwealth now is even stronger.  It'd really have to be a school that just didn't think it could compete anymore.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 03, 2019, 12:14:37 PM
I don't have the same opinion as Ryan ... the MAC seems to go through this every once in awhile, they grow and grow and eventually "disenfranchise" (depending on who you talk to) schools and they leave for other places. Landmark was the last time it happened in a significant way.

Yes, Arcadia was part of the original AEC group. What was interesting was they didn't pull the trigger while they spent an eon choosing a new president. They apparently wanted the new president to make the decision. I was told at first he was going to follow the idea and bring the school in after a year, but changed his mind and they stay in the MAC (just what I heard; I haven't talked to the President!). That said, I could see them reevaluating things and wondering if there are better places to be. The Commonwealth is now a very large and very competitive conference, though I really like how Arcadia has improved athletically over the years being in the Commonwealth (proving to naysayers that being in a competitive conference or with big programs doesn't mean one's own department cannot improve).

Who else might be interested in leaving is a wild guess. Names are always thrown around and I could pro and con or agree or disagree with all of them. The MAC may be getting too big again (theory) and that could result in some teams leaving for the AEC or even the CAC ... but for now, it is too early to see that as a certainty.

I do think there are more moves to be made in the Mid-Atlantic and neighboring regions. I need to get back to chasing (I really thought I would get a break after we broke the AEC story), but right now need to concentrate on some personal things ... and get those straightened out, first.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 04, 2019, 02:20:32 PM
Going back one topic, I don't think 9 and 9 is better than 10 and 8. Having an odd number is not something most conferences are eager to have.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on April 05, 2019, 09:33:31 AM
When a team moves from D3 to D2, is there a 5 year period where they are ineligible for postseason play, as is with a new D3 team?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on April 05, 2019, 09:43:58 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 05, 2019, 09:33:31 AM
When a team moves from D3 to D2, is there a 5 year period where they are ineligible for postseason play, as is with a new D3 team?

It's only 3. Remember, D2 doesn't need to worry about cleansing their program of all of those heathen athletic scholarship kids.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 05, 2019, 12:53:35 PM
DIII is really a three to four year post-season ban. Five years is a bit of a misnomer. The "first" year they aren't a member of DIII and is usually for schools outside of the NCAA. Once through that, there is a four year process that could be shortened to three if the schools is doing really, really well on the transition.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
Dave, wondering if Ohio Midwestern has put in their application yet to join their buddies from Bluffton in the HCAC... oh wait.... the HCAC likely states it must be an active functioning educational institution in order to be eligible to be a member... unlike Bluffton's scheduling requirements... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2019, 01:56:47 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
Dave, wondering if Ohio Midwestern has put in their application yet to join their buddies from Bluffton in the HCAC... oh wait.... the HCAC likely states it must be an active functioning educational institution in order to be eligible to be a member... unlike Bluffton's scheduling requirements... ;D ;D ;D
LOL  That is about as close to trolling as we will ever see out of hopefan!   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 02:40:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2019, 01:56:47 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
Dave, wondering if Ohio Midwestern has put in their application yet to join their buddies from Bluffton in the HCAC... oh wait.... the HCAC likely states it must be an active functioning educational institution in order to be eligible to be a member... unlike Bluffton's scheduling requirements... ;D ;D ;D
LOL  That is about as close to trolling as we will ever see out of hopefan!   ;D ;D ;D

Would love to share all the details....  would just get me in trouble...  kudos to Ryan Scott who independently found out the same things I did.. Unfortunately, I was encouraged by someone else not to share all with the D3 world....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2019, 03:10:45 PM
I think you were encouraged to stop grinding the ax, and possibly to stop annoying SIDs, to be fair.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2019, 03:10:45 PM
I think you were encouraged to stop grinding the ax, and possibly to stop annoying SIDs, to be fair.

Pat... now wait... annoying SIDs is not fair....I was a gentleman the whole way until I was attacked on the phone by the Bluffton SID... all for asking who Ohio Midwestern was... you know how much I respect D3, the institutions, and what D3hoops.com does... To have a school blatantly lie to me was not acceptable, and to be honest, I was very disappointed that Dave failed to back me up.. a D3 school was scamming the public, and in particular was scamming Grove City and Albion, the other two schools in their tourney... At least one, if not both of those schools thought they were playing a legit REAL school... they were not... Either the SID lied directly to me "It's a real school", or the coach conned the SID by lying to him, convincing him it was a real school...the Bluffton coach and the AD failed to respond directly to me...I've never had that happen before.. and from another very legit source, the Bluffton coach was close friends with the "coach" of Ohio Midwestern... the implications are there... Bluffton got caught, and wouldn't admit it...

I really thought with all the facts out there, you guys should have written it up... you chose not to... but that shouldn't have pressured me not to talk about it at the time....I did honor your wishes...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 07, 2019, 05:00:31 PM
I consider hopefan to be one of our most useful, objective, and devoted posters. He can annoy me anytime he likes. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2019, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
I really thought with all the facts out there, you guys should have written it up... you chose not to...

I mean, I do think this is up to us to determine what we should have "written up" -- and I think the term "scamming" is unnecessarily inflammatory in this instance.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 05:56:27 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2019, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
I really thought with all the facts out there, you guys should have written it up... you chose not to...

I mean, I do think this is up to us to determine what we should have "written up" -- and I think the term "scamming" is unnecessarily inflammatory in this instance.

heck Pat, I'll continue the conversation... why is the term scamming unncessarily inflammatory?   why would that be a wrong word... if not scamming, how should it be defined?  They presented a pickup team as a real college team.. and I firmly believe they knew that... instead of Ohio Midwestern University, why not Ohio Midwestern guys from the corner....
All I know that of all the D3 teams out there, I have lost respect for only one... and it's Bluffton....

Scam definition is - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on April 08, 2019, 09:00:45 AM
I don't know what the situation was with Midwestern. 5 of the 7 players from this past season played in the matchup the previous year. I do know they existed at some point and that not only did they play Bluffton this past season under mysterious circumstances, but they played the year before (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2017-18/boxscores/20171121_9af6.xml?view=boxscore) and the one before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2016-17/boxscores/20161230_omdv.xml?view=boxscore), and the one before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2015-16/boxscores/20151218_kkqt.xml?view=boxscore), as well as the one before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2014-15/boxscores/20141126_7ijy.xml?view=boxscore). 5 straight years and 5 wins for the Beavers. Plus another meeting a couple years before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2011-12/boxscores/20111123_mb24.xml?view=boxscore). Bluffton has also had many meetings with Ohio St-Lima which does still exist but isn't a member of any organizations other than a conference for Ohio regional campuses. The good news is that over the years Bluffton have reduced the number of non-D3 teams on their schedule with the Midwestern game being the only one on the schedule this past season.

Perhaps there was some contract between the schools that forced them to field a team (like the famous Georgia Tech-Cumberland football game a century ago)?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 08, 2019, 09:22:46 AM
Just moving this forward. I suppose we need to add York's move and SNC move in here.


Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2019, 11:00:01 AM
For 2019-2020, we are down 7 (3 going to D2; 3 closing their doors and 1 to the NAIA) and up 1 new member for a net of -6.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 01:11:17 PM

Just since my name came up.  I did do some basic research on this.  I do generally agree with hopefan's statement of facts.  I wouldn't, at this point, characterize it as "scamming," because we just don't know what's gone on behind the scenes.  I would say perhaps the public presentation is not as clear as it could be, for sure.  Ultimately we couldn't write anything, because there's just not confirmation of the whole picture.  Just because I believe the narrative to be true, that's a long way from being able to write something publicly that alleges deceit.

Pat's been doing this a long time; much less for me.  Even in that short time, though, I'm amazed at the number of things we "know" vs the number of things that can be published.  That's also the line we have to walk when participating on the message boards - official representatives of the site have to have a different approach.

I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often.  You just can't hold every school to the same standard you might for a team in the WIAC or NESCAC.  It's a pretty great disparity.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 01:11:17 PM
I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this yesterday when thinking about the new Blackburn hire.

The SID is also the head men's baseball coach.  The Men's Basketball coach is also the cross country coach.  They run a lean operation for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 01:52:38 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 01:11:17 PM

Just since my name came up.  I did do some basic research on this.  I do generally agree with hopefan's statement of facts.  I wouldn't, at this point, characterize it as "scamming," because we just don't know what's gone on behind the scenes.  I would say perhaps the public presentation is not as clear as it could be, for sure.  Ultimately we couldn't write anything, because there's just not confirmation of the whole picture.  Just because I believe the narrative to be true, that's a long way from being able to write something publicly that alleges deceit.

Pat's been doing this a long time; much less for me.  Even in that short time, though, I'm amazed at the number of things we "know" vs the number of things that can be published.  That's also the line we have to walk when participating on the message boards - official representatives of the site have to have a different approach.

I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often.  You just can't hold every school to the same standard you might for a team in the WIAC or NESCAC.  It's a pretty great disparity.

Well said, Ryan.

Quote from: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 01:11:17 PM
I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this yesterday when thinking about the new Blackburn hire.

The SID is also the head men's baseball coach.  The Men's Basketball coach is also the cross country coach.  They run a lean operation for sure.

There was a time not that many years ago when this was the norm throughout D3 and not the dwindling exception. Another D3 commonplace that's become an endangered species is the athletic director who also coaches a sport. Most D3 schools have beefed up their athletic department personnel to cut down drastically on dual responsibiliites in which a coach is called upon to also hold a non-coaching role that is considered to be a full-time job elsewhere in the division. (Lots of schools still double up on coaching responsibilities, but nowadays it's more often in situations that make professional sense, such as the men's golf coach also being the women's golf coach, the men's tennis coach also being the women's tennis coach, etc.)

How soon we forget!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Lately I have been reading old student newspapers and yearbooks and such.  It is interesting because the further you go back, the more likely it is that everyone involved played more than one role including the players.

I knew Harry Keough before he passed.  He won five national championships at Saint Louis University even though he never worked full-time.  His day job was at the post office.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 01:11:17 PM
I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this yesterday when thinking about the new Blackburn hire.

The SID is also the head men's baseball coach.  The Men's Basketball coach is also the cross country coach.  They run a lean operation for sure.

I know, when I was a student, our dept didn't even have an SID and then it was essentially a student intern for a number of years, until they hired someone (one of the interns, I think), full time. ENC has gone to utilizing grad assistants for most entry-level jobs across campus, including many of the assistant coaches.  Trading master's degrees for work seems to be a decent model for jobs most people will only keep for a year or two anyway.  It seems to be how a small school makes do on a very limited budget.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
For the record since I was thrown under the bus in this one ... I did a lot of legwork behind the scenes, hopefan, but I didn't get the same conclusion you did. I talked to several coaches about the whereabouts of Midwestern and talked to those scheduled to play them. I asked specifically if one school felt they were "scammed" and while they were disappointed they did not feel that way. They also agreed to contact me should there be a bigger issue at play, if the team was a scam or some kind, or whatnot. They didn't get back to me in the two weeks leading up to the games, they did not contact me after the games. They also didn't talk to me about it when I talked to them one-on-one at later times both on the phone and in person. I even reached out one more time ahead of the game (as they would have been scouting for the tournament) and they didn't feel it necessary to cry foul and say there was a scam here. That speaks volumes to me. (Side note: while disappointed, many admitted, and I think it holds true for all involved, it was a game for their team and they weren't the kind of team that needed to worry about post-season play and such.)

In other words ... they didn't feel the same way you did.

Yes, we all admitted the schedule felt weird, but I did NOT get the sense that a school was lying, scamming others, or something worse. If I felt something major was wrong, I would have said something or we would have reported it. However, it fell well short of that bar.

I am sorry you didn't feel I "backed you up," but that isn't my role in this. I also felt the tactics being taken were a line too far. The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that. In private conversations you have now made public, I told you I felt you were going too far in your handling of it. At some point, we have to take the information at face value until something else proves otherwise. You had a narrative that certainly seemed to have some interesting facts behind it, but that even Ryan contends didn't tell the entire story. I felt the same way and I am not going to chase things just because you didn't like it.

I chase a lot of things that don't seem to hold water. I don't report 75% of what I am told, found, or believe because they either don't hold up to scrutiny, there isn't a story, or I don't have enough information to stand behind anything other than speculation and rumor. This didn't feel worth making a larger deal out of because it just wasn't that big a deal in the long-run.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 02:32:34 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Lately I have been reading old student newspapers and yearbooks and such.  It is interesting because the further you go back, the more likely it is that everyone involved played more than one role including the players.

I knew Harry Keough before he passed.  He won five national championships at Saint Louis University even though he never worked full-time.  His day job was at the post office.

Ted Hedstrand, for whom North Park's football and soccer field is named, coached six different sports at North Park at one time or another. (He's also in the Illinois High School Coaches Association Hall of Fame for being the only head coach in state history to helm both an undefeated football season and an undefeated boys' basketball team in the same school year.) He was still coaching men's and women's cross-country and men's and women's track & field when I was a North Park student in the early '80s.

Pretty much every CCIW school has a Ted Hedstrand type who wore a whole bunch of different hats as a coach back in the day.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 02:32:34 PM
Ted Hedstrand, for whom North Park's football and soccer field is named, coached six different sports at North Park at one time or another. (He's also in the Illinois High School Coaches Association Hall of Fame for being the only head coach in state history to helm both an undefeated football season and an undefeated boys' basketball team in the same school year.) He was still coaching men's and women's cross-country and men's and women's track & field when I was a North Park student in the early '80s.

Six sports is incredible.

How did have time to watch all that film?  :P

By the way, as far as the players, the most I was able to find was one player who played four sports.  Football, basketball, tennis and wrestling I think.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 04:00:55 PM
I should've pointed out in the previous post that he didn't coach them all at the same time. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 08, 2019, 06:13:56 PM
Dave.... "we found nothing to dispute that"....that is so wrong...

I am not the bad guy here... I backed up everything, and your main writer found the same... I can understand not wanting to pursue it, that's your preference and right... what I don't understand is why you continue to make it look like it didn't happen (implying I'm the dummy to anyone who reads)... heck, just look at Bluffton's website...yes the score is there.. accompanied by the words "NCAA non-countable opponent"...   

enough....hopefan is back ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2019, 12:16:24 AM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 09, 2019, 04:02:42 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2019, 12:16:24 AM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.

Thank you
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 09, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 08, 2019, 06:13:56 PM
heck, just look at Bluffton's website...yes the score is there.. accompanied by the words "NCAA non-countable opponent"...   

Psst -- that's on there because they use PrestoSports, like we do, and I put those words in the database for that game. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on April 09, 2019, 05:13:21 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 03:30:30 PM

By the way, as far as the players, the most I was able to find was one player who played four sports.  Football, basketball, tennis and wrestling I think.

Jim Brown played Football [College and Pro Hall of Fame], basketball [averaged double figures as a junior], Lacrosse [Hall of Fame, changed the rules because of him], and track and field [scored 5,500 points in the AAU nationals to place 5th in 1955] at Syracuse in the 50's.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 09, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2019, 12:16:24 AM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.

I conveyed everything I was told by the coaches to everyone in our group ... at first, it was conveyed to me the opponents were curious who the opponent was. I asked opponents to get back to me if they had further problems when they got closer to the game (or at the event). The fact none of them got back to me (and I talked to one of the coaches SEVERAL times afterward) ... I took that as a sign they didn't really have an issue.

BTW - just because a game is rules as a non-countable game by the NCAA doesn't mean the game, team, or other stuff didn't exist. It just means when it comes to their overall record and NCAA stats, they aren't included. Many teams play teams that aren't in the NCAA and they don't mean more than having a game. It doesn't mean there is a scam or something going on.

Sure ... we couldn't find who this program was. I never disputed that. But a team was put on the floor and I didn't get any complaints from those involved after I asked them to let me know if there were issues. They apparently didn't feel it was that big a deal.

I also never said it wasn't a big deal. I simply said it wasn't something worth making a major deal out of. I don't agree it was a scam. If the coach keeps going to that well and those in the tournament are fed up with it ... they will handle it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Stoppable on April 09, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 09, 2019, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: Ryan Stoppable on April 09, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.

I thought that came up already ... I've lost track.

They and York (Pa.) moving to the MAC Commonwealth in the same year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 09, 2019, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 09, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2019, 12:16:24 AM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.

I conveyed everything I was told by the coaches to everyone in our group ... at first, it was conveyed to me the opponents were curious who the opponent was. I asked opponents to get back to me if they had further problems when they got closer to the game (or at the event). The fact none of them got back to me (and I talked to one of the coaches SEVERAL times afterward) ... I took that as a sign they didn't really have an issue.

BTW - just because a game is rules as a non-countable game by the NCAA doesn't mean the game, team, or other stuff didn't exist. It just means when it comes to their overall record and NCAA stats, they aren't included. Many teams play teams that aren't in the NCAA and they don't mean more than having a game. It doesn't mean there is a scam or something going on.

Sure ... we couldn't find who this program was. I never disputed that. But a team was put on the floor and I didn't get any complaints from those involved after I asked them to let me know if there were issues. They apparently didn't feel it was that big a deal.

I also never said it wasn't a big deal. I simply said it wasn't something worth making a major deal out of. I don't agree it was a scam. If the coach keeps going to that well and those in the tournament are fed up with it ... they will handle it.

Yes, but none of them lost to 'Midwestern'.  If they had, I bet it would've been a 'big deal'. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 09, 2019, 10:25:07 PM
I think that you're being generous in referring to Ohio Midwestern as a "program", Dave. If none of the coaches whose teams played in the Bluffton tournament objected to playing the group of guys who called themselves "Ohio Midwestern", then that's fine, and it's ultimately all that matters here ... but it sure seems to me that at best their mystery opponent was merely a team with the name of a now-defunct school on its uniforms, not a "program".
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 10, 2019, 06:43:26 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 09, 2019, 10:25:07 PM
I think that you're being generous in referring to Ohio Midwestern as a "program", Dave. If none of the coaches whose teams played in the Bluffton tournament objected to playing the group of guys who called themselves "Ohio Midwestern", then that's fine, and it's ultimately all that matters here ... but it sure seems to me that at best their mystery opponent was merely a team with the name of a now-defunct school on its uniforms, not a "program".

I (and I think Hopefan, as well) talked to the guy legally responsible for the records and transcripts of Ohio Midwestern - he had no idea they were still playing sports.  They're not currently offering classes outside of occasional evangelistic training when churches schedule them.  Like I said - I can think of a bunch of different ways this happened, but there's certainly no legal or internet presence anywhere.  I found it all more a curiosity than anything.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 09:14:50 AM
Just moving this forward (again). I suppose we need to add York's move and SNC move in here.


Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
SNC moving from the MWC to the NACC
York PA moving from the CAC to the MAC Commonwealth

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 10, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2019, 11:28:45 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 10, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.
Done. +1!
https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2019/04/york-latest-to-leave-cac

Thanks to Greek for moving it forward. +1!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 12:38:09 PM
Thanks Caz. Edited.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 07:02:41 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 10, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.

Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 10, 2019, 07:42:36 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 07:02:41 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 10, 2019, 11:09:33 AM
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.

Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.

CSI will be leaving immediately, if accepted, but they are (last I heard) still planning to fulfill their CUNYAC obligations for next season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on April 10, 2019, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 07:02:41 PM
Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.

UT Tyler will be entering the second year of the three-year provisional D2 process this fall. Frostburg State and Staten Island, if approved, will enter year one. I gather that provisional D2 members aren't required to play a D2 schedule until year two.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 11, 2019, 07:57:39 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 12:38:09 PM
Thanks Caz. Edited.

Thanks for moving the list forward and updating! +K!

Edit: And now I've caused us to be on a new page. :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 11, 2019, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on April 10, 2019, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 07:02:41 PM
Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.

UT Tyler will be entering the second year of the three-year provisional D2 process this fall. Frostburg State and Staten Island, if approved, will enter year one. I gather that provisional D2 members aren't required to play a D2 schedule until year two.

Let me put it a different way ... UT Tyler will now start offering scholarships starting with the upcoming academic year. Frostburg and Staten Island will start offering them right away this year without the transition year UTT (and Benedictine at one point) used.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on April 11, 2019, 09:09:51 PM
At least on the women's side, UT-Tyler hired Jeannette Yeomans away from SUNY Cortland, She is a great coach and wouldn't be surprised to see them move another level in a few years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2019, 04:33:10 PM
Just moving this forward (again). I am adding Franciscan's move to the Pres AC in 2020-21.


Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
SNC moving from the MWC to the NACC
York PA moving from the CAC to the MAC Commonwealth

Franciscan moving from AMCC to Pres AC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2019, 04:49:50 PM

If we're working on precision of language, Staten Island will be playing a full CUNYAC schedule next year; I'm not sure about their non-conference schedule.  I suspect they might try to schedule as many of their new conference mates as possible (assuming the division change goes through).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 07, 2019, 09:06:03 PM
https://arcadiaknights.com/news/2019/5/7/general-mac-announces-realignment-for-2020-21.aspx

A bunch of teams move around in the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth when York and Stevens will both be in the fold.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 08, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 07, 2019, 09:06:03 PM
https://arcadiaknights.com/news/2019/5/7/general-mac-announces-realignment-for-2020-21.aspx

A bunch of teams move around in the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth when York and Stevens will both be in the fold.

So they are two conferences in some sports but one in other sports. Nice loophole to get two AQs in some sports. They want to be separate, but they can also just swap teams at free will. Sounds like having two fantasy teams and trading players back and forth.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 09, 2019, 06:30:34 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 08, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 07, 2019, 09:06:03 PM
https://arcadiaknights.com/news/2019/5/7/general-mac-announces-realignment-for-2020-21.aspx

A bunch of teams move around in the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth when York and Stevens will both be in the fold.

So they are two conferences in some sports but one in other sports. Nice loophole to get two AQs in some sports. They want to be separate, but they can also just swap teams at free will. Sounds like having two fantasy teams and trading players back and forth.

It's the dreaded "Grandfather Clause."  This is precisely what the USAC would love to do, I suspect.  Sadly, it's no longer allowed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC? 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 10, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Lindenwood Belleville is exploratory for Division III... Very interesting. Definitely did not expect that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2019, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 10, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
Lindenwood Belleville is exploratory for Division III... Very interesting. Definitely did not expect that.
Where do they land?  SLIAC?

https://lindenwoodlynx.com/  Football, Ice Hockey, Wrestling and Rugby for men.

Ice Hockey, Lacrosse and Wrestling for Women.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2019, 09:18:54 PM
I talked about this a month or so ago on the SLIAC men's basketball board. Lindenwood-Belleville will be in a unique position, because it offers a whole bunch of sports that the SLIAC doesn't sponsor, but, nevertheless, the SLIAC is by far the most logical place for the Lynx to land if LUB does in fact choose to transition from NAIA to D3.

I'm going to follow this closely, because NPU's former head football coach is now the defensive coordinator for LUB's football program.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 11, 2019, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2019, 09:18:54 PM
I talked about this a month or so ago on the SLIAC men's basketball board.

I guess I do remember talking about it.

I am still shocked.

In terms of institutional culture, Lindenwood is not a Division III-type school.  I mean, to the extent that there is a type...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 12, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 11, 2019, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2019, 09:18:54 PM
I talked about this a month or so ago on the SLIAC men's basketball board.

I guess I do remember talking about it.

I am still shocked.

In terms of institutional culture, Lindenwood is not a Division III-type school.  I mean, to the extent that there is a type...

I wonder if it's a case of wanting to be NCAA and finding D3 a little easier to access than d2 for a school that's still developing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 10:24:29 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 12, 2019, 09:08:52 AM
I wonder if it's a case of wanting to be NCAA and finding D3 a little easier to access than d2 for a school that's still developing.

That is an interesting idea and seems more likely than not in my mind.

Then again, maybe they see a good business strategy in a varsity athletics program that does not offer scholarship.

This is unrelated to Division III, but it seems as though Lindenwood Belleville will have a more difficult time finding a Division II conference because the options are the GLVC and the MIAA.  Lindenwood is leaving the MIAA for the GLVC so for obvious reasons, it is hard to imagine either conference being open to the sister university.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 13, 2019, 01:00:39 PM
It's tough to do hockey in NCAA Division II, so that's probably part of the reasoning behind D-III as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2019, 01:12:20 PM
If you're using athletics as an enrollment driver -- and with 33 teams, that appears to be the case -- D3 makes more sense than D2.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 02:34:41 PM
Not to get off-topic but it is the off-season so a question for anyone with an opinion...

Explain the decision to move away from the NAIA and a conference with mostly St. Louis area or mid-Missouri institutions and sponsorship of sports such as dance and cheerleading...

Is it an issue of prestige?

Longevity concerns with the NAIA or conference?

It is a financial decision--the thought that they can recruit just as hard but pay less in institutional aid?

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 14, 2019, 05:22:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2019, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 14, 2019, 05:22:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on May 14, 2019, 11:02:42 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

Another article on the subject: https://www.bnd.com/news/local/education/article230339174.html?fbclid=IwAR3gdSmqNc0MvnWJ9dNqkO1_FXJgQTQvHSz-BEglcnPXO-MB-Z_bsY4rg5E
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2019, 12:14:22 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on May 14, 2019, 11:02:42 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

Another article on the subject: https://www.bnd.com/news/local/education/article230339174.html?fbclid=IwAR3gdSmqNc0MvnWJ9dNqkO1_FXJgQTQvHSz-BEglcnPXO-MB-Z_bsY4rg5E

From the article...

QuoteAbout 78 percent of the students on the Belleville campus participate on at least one of the 34 athletic teams and compete either on scholarship or discounted tuition. The impact also was a factor in the board's decision, Duggan said.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 15, 2019, 04:31:40 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2019, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 14, 2019, 05:22:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)

Yes, I knew the answer.  I asked to see if anyone else did.  I knew that the movement within the MAC is far less frequent than is sometimes implied here.

I do not know how often Stevenson moved prior to joining the MAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2019, 11:39:23 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2019, 12:14:22 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on May 14, 2019, 11:02:42 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 04:58:47 PM
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

Another article on the subject: https://www.bnd.com/news/local/education/article230339174.html?fbclid=IwAR3gdSmqNc0MvnWJ9dNqkO1_FXJgQTQvHSz-BEglcnPXO-MB-Z_bsY4rg5E

From the article...

QuoteAbout 78 percent of the students on the Belleville campus participate on at least one of the 34 athletic teams and compete either on scholarship or discounted tuition. The impact also was a factor in the board's decision, Duggan said.

It's a shame. I feel badly for my friend Mike Conway, the former NPU head football coach who had just accepted a position as LUB football's defensive coordinator, and for his son Dakota, a former Vikings standout WR who gave up a coaching job out east to join his dad on the LUB coaching staff.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 15, 2019, 11:59:33 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2019, 11:39:23 AM
It's a shame. I feel badly for my friend Mike Conway, the former NPU head football coach who had just accepted a position as LUB football's defensive coordinator, and for his son Dakota, a former Vikings standout WR who gave up a coaching job out east to join his dad on the LUB coaching staff.

It is a shame.

Let's hope Lindenwood is able to honor their commitment to remain open through next season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2019, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 15, 2019, 04:31:40 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2019, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 14, 2019, 05:22:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)

Yes, I knew the answer.  I asked to see if anyone else did.  I knew that the movement within the MAC is far less frequent than is sometimes implied here.

I do not know how often Stevenson moved prior to joining the MAC.

Stevenson

https://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Stevenson/men/2018-19/index

MACC 2012-13 to date

CAC at least as early as 2006-07 in the Capital.

Before that,"Villa Julie College" was in the NEAC for a short time.  (I know that information because it was on an previous version of D3boards.com and D3hoops.com!)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 16, 2019, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 15, 2019, 04:31:40 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2019, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 14, 2019, 05:22:51 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)

Yes, I knew the answer.  I asked to see if anyone else did.  I knew that the movement within the MAC is far less frequent than is sometimes implied here.

I do not know how often Stevenson moved prior to joining the MAC.

So next time ... just state the answer. I don't understand the point of the game played to ask a question one already knows ... instead of just putting the information into the forum normally.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 16, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
 I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 16, 2019, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: ronk on May 16, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.

You would be hard pressed to find a conference anywhere else in the country that has swapped teams around even in divisions. The MAC is grandfathered into a clause that when they do make swaps - no matter when - it feels odd to many in other large conferences, especially. So while it might have been ten years since the last switch - albeit several changes in a quick succession as well - to those who make no changes and have one AQ ... they take exception.

Remember, from the outside it looks like this: the MAC is a two-division conference akin to the USA South, ASC, and others ... who swaps teams around when it is necessary or convenient without treating those changes like they are two separate conferences. They treat them like two different divisions. Thus, no matter when the last one took place ... the fact it happens I know drives other conferences and other members crazy.

I am not arguing either way on this. I get both sides of the equation and understand both sides perspective. The grandfather clause allows the MAC to do what it wants ... but that does not mean other DIII members take kindly to it. That is all I am trying to point out. Ten years ago feels like three to many others (at least from what they express to me in conversations).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 17, 2019, 08:16:52 AM
Quote from: ronk on May 16, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.
Correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 17, 2019, 02:08:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 16, 2019, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: ronk on May 16, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.

You would be hard pressed to find a conference anywhere else in the country that has swapped teams around even in divisions. The MAC is grandfathered into a clause that when they do make swaps - no matter when - it feels odd to many in other large conferences, especially. So while it might have been ten years since the last switch - albeit several changes in a quick succession as well - to those who make no changes and have one AQ ... they take exception.

Remember, from the outside it looks like this: the MAC is a two-division conference akin to the USA South, ASC, and others ... who swaps teams around when it is necessary or convenient without treating those changes like they are two separate conferences. They treat them like two different divisions. Thus, no matter when the last one took place ... the fact it happens I know drives other conferences and other members crazy.

I am not arguing either way on this. I get both sides of the equation and understand both sides perspective. The grandfather clause allows the MAC to do what it wants ... but that does not mean other DIII members take kindly to it. That is all I am trying to point out. Ten years ago feels like three to many others (at least from what they express to me in conversations).

Dave,
You might as well bookmark your reply;  ;) I've seen it before and you're liable to need it again in the future.

Which prompts the following idea in the next post:
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 17, 2019, 02:26:59 PM
 Since Dave has mentioned the MAC grandfather clause, it has provoked a historical timeline question to understand how D3 basketball has gotten to its current environment:

Would the D3 historian(Gordon Mann) consider presenting an overview of D3 basketball from the beginning(1975 for men, '80s for women), considering such items as

# of conferences/institutions
did NCAA tourney field consist only of AQs? if so, when were at-larges introduced?
how did the NCAA choose the at-larges/when did RACs and regions come into being?

anything else that would color the picture

I did see that the size of the NCAA fields is already a part of the D3 men's history under news/playoff history
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2019, 02:40:28 PM
The tournament consisted solely of at-large selections until the 64-team play-in years in 1995-97. All conferences had automatic bids in that 64-team field, but when the field was reduced in 1998, some conferences lost automatic qualification. The current pool system came into place in 2000.

I don't know when RACs came into being but I know that they were in existence by 1993. The RACs ranked teams in their regions and at-large bids were handed out by region.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 18, 2019, 12:01:17 PM
 Thanks for the info, Pat.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 05, 2019, 10:23:48 AM

Another one: Suffolk to the CCC.

https://www.gosuffolkrams.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190604ee97yp
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 05, 2019, 11:02:09 AM
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 05, 2019, 11:31:38 AM
Gordon - what is Simmons discontinuing?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2019, 12:42:30 PM
If it's discontinuing its women's programs, then Simmons is discontinuing intercollegiate athletics altogether, because it only has women's athletics programs.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2019, 12:50:55 PM
D3 is undergoing some significant shrinkage. Eight schools are gone, and only one comes in to replace them. Next year could be just as bad, or worse, as no schools will be entering the division.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 05, 2019, 01:04:36 PM
oh found it, cutting WBB

http://athletics.simmons.edu/general/2018-19/releases/20190405vlq76c

I don't understand this at all. They're not egregiously bad, getting a little better each year, seem to have an OK roster size, not a particularly expensive sport and no exorbitant travel costs...how do you cut basketball? Baffling.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2019, 01:25:35 PM
I agree. Basketball is practically a universal sport on the collegiate level.

The good news is that at least Simmons isn't dropping intercollegiate athletics altogether. So, in terms of membership if not specifically women's basketball, the net loss for D3 is only six schools, not seven.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 05, 2019, 02:07:23 PM
That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 06, 2019, 06:31:19 AM

Simmons has a number of very highly sought-after graduate programs.  I suspect grad school is driving the ship there (near double the undergrad enrollment).  It might really just be cost cutting - or they're shifting money to a sport that can recruit more students.  I don't know.  I don't think Simmons has the same concerns of some of the other small NE private schools, though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 06, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
It's that time of year:

https://csacsports.com/news/2019/6/5/general-csac-announces-addition-of-university-of-valley-as-core-member-in-2020-21.aspx


That leaves the ACAA with Finlandia, Mills, Mt. Mary, Pine Manor, Pratt, and Delhi.  Two of those schools are provisional, one doesn't have basketball, one doesn't have men's sports, and one is in the UP.  Quite a cavalcade of awesome.

I imagine Pine Manor and Delhi will be gone soon, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: nescac1 on June 06, 2019, 11:09:22 AM
New England just has too many small, expensive private liberal arts colleges to be viable.  The NESCAC and NEWMAC schools aren't going anywhere.  But the NECC schools in particular seem to be in trouble.  Southern Vermont (which was the best hoops schools in that conference for a number of years) and Newbury both closed this year.  Several others have the types of profiles that will make it hard to survive in the current higher education landscape (namely, very small enrollments, very small endowments,close proximity to many other colleges and universities), in particular:

Eastern Nazarene, fewer than 1000 undergrads, 11 million endowment
Mitchell College, 800 students, 6 million endowment
Elms, 1200 undergrads, 12 million endowment

I could imagine a few more NECC schools folding over the next decade or abandoning athletics.  Eventually, it probably makes sense for GNAC to absorb the rest, especially since GNAC has a few members that will likely have trouble surviving, as well. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 06, 2019, 11:26:19 AM
I thought we would have seen more closures in Division III by now but for a variety of reasons, the vast majority of colleges and universities have persisted.

However, it is only a matter of time for many institutions as the demographics continue to decline.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on June 06, 2019, 12:03:05 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 06, 2019, 10:21:58 AM
It's that time of year:

https://csacsports.com/news/2019/6/5/general-csac-announces-addition-of-university-of-valley-as-core-member-in-2020-21.aspx


That leaves the ACAA with Finlandia, Mills, Mt. Mary, Pine Manor, Pratt, and Delhi.  Two of those schools are provisional, one doesn't have basketball, one doesn't have men's sports, and one is in the UP.  Quite a cavalcade of awesome.

I imagine Pine Manor and Delhi will be gone soon, too.

As I have a family member employed at Delhi, I'm curious about this statement.... do you mean gone as in closing, or gone from D3 to NAIA or USCAA?  Please elaborate on anything you've heard...thanks

I've commented before that Delhi is a hidden gem in the Catskills... pretty little campus on a mountainside overlooking the very small town of Delhi.... the gym is on the top most section of the campus... from there you can see for miles in any direction, mountains and forests...
And while I've never seen Delhi play, they had a decent lower level team this past year..17-10 overall, 11 wins vs D3 teams (yes, weak D3 teams), and they won the ACAA 4 team post season tourney in what must have been thrilling fashion, a 1 point win and a 2 point win....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 06, 2019, 12:08:32 PM
SUNY Delhi is in the process of transitioning to the NAC, so they're essentially gone from the ACAA already.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 06, 2019, 12:11:55 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 06, 2019, 11:26:19 AM
I thought we would have seen more closures in Division III by now but for a variety of reasons, the vast majority of colleges and universities have persisted.

However, it is only a matter of time for many institutions as the demographics continue to decline.

I have read that the real enrollment cliff is coming in 2026, 2027 due to a birth drop-off in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 06, 2019, 12:48:37 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 05, 2019, 02:07:23 PM
That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/

Here is more background info. Simmons can keep Swimming as their winter sport.


https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/04/sharks-shutter-program
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 06, 2019, 02:35:54 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 06, 2019, 12:08:32 PM
SUNY Delhi is in the process of transitioning to the NAC, so they're essentially gone from the ACAA already.

Yeah ... I'm surprised Ryan mentioned Delhi, but with all the changes he may have forgotten ... Delhi is off to the NAC. There will be more to join them in the near future.

Side notes: ACAA isn't as strong as the numbers presented indicate. I believe their numbers are lower, but I have to check my sourcing on that.

And, I am hearing of a few more schools interested in coming to DIII. We obviously have to wait about six months for that to be official, but my count I know of three or four that could be in the pipeline in the next year or two - maybe more depending on some other factors (sometimes, they seem ready and are not or don't see ready and pull the trigger anyway).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 06, 2019, 02:37:17 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 06, 2019, 12:08:32 PM
SUNY Delhi is in the process of transitioning to the NAC, so they're essentially gone from the ACAA already.

Perhaps the ACAA's problem is its name. "American Collegiate Athletic Association" is so anonymous-sounding that it's practically institutional wallpaper.

It needs to rename itself "American Cavalcade of Awesome Athletics".

Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 06, 2019, 12:48:37 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 05, 2019, 02:07:23 PM
That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/

Here is more background info. Simmons can keep Swimming as their winter sport.


https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/04/sharks-shutter-program

The real shame is the timing. This is what the Simmons press release in the first week of April said:

QuoteAs we have a responsibility to our current and incoming students, as well as to the 12 other teams in the Great Northeast Athletic Conference and to the Commissioner, who needs to schedule the upcoming season, we chose to act now to avoid canceling the program during the season.

That statement makes the Simmons adminstration look noble. But the article in The Simmons Voice said this:

QuoteThe decision to end the basketball program was made by "senior levels of the organization" after "analyzing years and years of data," according to Jeremy Solomon, the associate vice president of Communications and Public Affairs at Simmons, who sat in the interview with the athletic director. In the interview, Kantor said the decision to end the program was made sometime over the winter.

So the Simmons administration sat on this news for months, ostensibly to avoid canceling the season. But why would they have needed to cancel the 2018-19 season? Lots of schools that shut down an athletic program or programs, or which closed entirely, gave early notice and then played through a final season. It would've been the considerate thing to do on behalf of Simmons head coach Michael Williams, who instead got a pink slip via an April e-mail and cleaned out his office that day. It's a whole heck of a lot easier to start looking for a new basketball coaching job when you learn over the winter that you'll be losing the one you currently have than it is to start looking for one in April.

And then there's the recruits. As the comment from a parent of a Simmons recruit said in response to the story in The Simmons Voice, the fact that the school chose to announce this both to the coach and to the players in April leaves the incoming recruits in the lurch. As the parent said:

QuoteIf the AD and senior levels of the organization truly made this decision in the winter, shame on them. Many of the incoming recruits had basketball offers at other schools in in addition to Simmons, and having committed to Simmons, turned them down. For many, those offers are now gone with this news not being communicated until April.

One is left with the impression that Simmons either didn't care about those recruits, or that the Simmons administration actively deceived them into thinking that they were putting in their deposits at a school where they would be playing basketball next year, only to find out after Simmons had taken their money that the rug had been pulled out from under them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 07, 2019, 01:52:04 AM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=spqpi/aqrt5xr44qium3e2.jpg)

Usually we try and relax in the offseason. We have always had ideas of doing an off-season podcast, but we usually end up being distracted by other things. This off-season we decided to go for it.

We did get some "down time" in between the end of the season through the end of May, but we are ready to get back into chatting about DIII - basketball especially.

And there is plenty to talk about starting with the "MIAC Decision" or #TomToss.

Dave McHugh is joined by Pat Coleman to discuss why (no, really, why?!) some of the MIAC presidents decided to "involuntarily" remove St. Thomas from the conference it helped found 99-years ago. We talk about the history, the flaws in the supposed arguments (though, no president has gone on record), and what options UST has moving forward. Dave also gives his thoughts on the topic.

Also hear from two coaches who made some unexpected job decisions this off-season. Dave chats with Sam Hargraves who left Alma for fellow-MIAA member Olivet despite his alma mater, Calvin, having a job opening. And Gordon Mann chats with Michael Coppolino who shifted coasts to take over the vaunted George Fox program - something that was even unusual for GFU.

Plus, a brief look at some of the other coaching decisions as the calendar turns towards summer.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops .com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. The May Edition is an audio-only podcast. You can listen to it here: http://bit.ly/2WPSdKM

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Pat Coleman, Editor-in-Chief D3sports .com
- Sam Hargraves, new Olivet men's coach
- Michael Coppolino, new George Fox women's coach (interviewed by D3hoops .com's Gordon Mann)

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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 25, 2019, 12:12:31 AM
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Bengalsrule on June 27, 2019, 12:32:13 PM
Wow. The MAC has been busy!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2019, 09:02:54 PM

Brevard got to skip their third provisional year, moving right to year four.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 29, 2019, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2019, 09:02:54 PM

Brevard got to skip their third provisional year, moving right to year four.

Pfeiffer likewise. https://gofalconsports.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190628lmiwwq
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 10, 2019, 10:37:43 PM
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 10, 2019, 10:37:43 PM
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.

impacts on the NECC...

field hockey/men's lacrosse - already combined with the NAC for 1 auto bid**; men's golf - already Pool B anyway; M/W XC-T&F - non-auto bid sports

WBB, WSOC, women's VB, softball - down to 7 teams but hang on to Pool A by their fingernails for now

MSOC, MBB, baseball - grace period begins fall 2020; will be Pool B starting in 2022-23 if no other additions

men's volleyball - grace period starts this fall anyway, Pool B in 2022 season. Only 3 core NECC remaining members will sponsor MVB (Elms, ENC, Lesley), without that number getting up to at least 4 they can never get the auto bid back once they lose it.

women's lacrosse - grace period was already starting 2019-20 due to only 6 remaining teams, that will become 5. B in 2022.

**when Dean leaves, it looks like the combined NECC/NAC FH will only have 6 teams, thus starting the clock to be Pool B in fall 2022. I imagine the 3 remaining NECC men's lacrosse teams (NEC, Becker, Mitchell) will just be absorbed into the 7-team NAC, although Mitchell is a long drive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2019, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 10, 2019, 10:37:43 PM
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.

impacts on the NECC...

field hockey/men's lacrosse - already combined with the NAC for 1 auto bid**; men's golf - already Pool B anyway; M/W XC-T&F - non-auto bid sports

WBB, WSOC, women's VB, softball - down to 7 teams but hang on to Pool A by their fingernails for now

MSOC, MBB, baseball - grace period begins fall 2020; will be Pool B starting in 2022-23 if no other additions

men's volleyball - grace period starts this fall anyway, Pool B in 2022 season. Only 3 core NECC remaining members will sponsor MVB (Elms, ENC, Lesley), without that number getting up to at least 4 they can never get the auto bid back once they lose it.

women's lacrosse - grace period was already starting 2019-20 due to only 6 remaining teams, that will become 5. B in 2022.

**when Dean leaves, it looks like the combined NECC/NAC FH will only have 6 teams, thus starting the clock to be Pool B in fall 2022. I imagine the 3 remaining NECC men's lacrosse teams (NEC, Becker, Mitchell) will just be absorbed into the 7-team NAC, although Mitchell is a long drive.
Considering mission, vision and geography, where else could Mitchell go if there were a NECC/NAC consolidation (or the NECC being subsumed into another conference) for all sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2019, 10:32:10 AM
Ralph, the CCC is the only league that comes to mind unless the GNAC wants to get even more bloated.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:13:12 PM
And this article makes it sound like Johnson & Wales-Denver has skipped over year two and will be in year three of provisional membership in 2019-20.

JWU Denver successfully completes first year of NCAA provisional membership process
https://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190627nvtmgx
QuoteIn making the transition from NAIA to NCAA DIII, JWU Denver has now successfully completed its Exploratory Year (2017-18) and first provisional year (2018-19).

Starting Sept. 1, 2019, the Wildcats will officially begin Year 3 of what is traditionally a five-year process.

If this is accurate, this wouldn't just be significant because it means JWU-Denver would reach full, active membership a year sooner, but because games against them would count as in-Division games already this year for ranking and selection purposes (i.e., factor into other team's in-Division WLT record and Strength-of-Schedule in the primary selection criteria).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 12, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Good stuff, Flying Weasel and Caz Bombers.

+k to both
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Ryan Stoppable on April 09, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Quote from: gordonmann on June 25, 2019, 12:12:31 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

The official release on the St. Norbert website (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/?fbclid=IwAR0koaNWRPxDu66Q8e5ePjmNGrLnfba4-jhdQVQ8H-Y6pPiTeGUPt-YvoRM) says they will join the NACC beginning in the 2021-22 school year.  And on the NACC website, the members pull-down menu lists 2021 for St. Norbert and the St. Norbert page on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/members/stnorbert/info) lists 2021-22 as the year they become full members.  I couldn't find an official release from the NACC.

However, almost all other mentions of their move to the NACC, not only by media outlets but by St. Norbert itself, says they will join in 2020-21, including in the St. Norbert College Magazine article (https://www.snc.edu/magazine/2019spring/nacc.html) and the St. Norbert facebook post and twitter tweet (https://twitter.com/stnorbert/status/1113457788443877376) that link to the official release.

So, what is the story?  I would tend to believe the official release and NACC website, but how would it get reported incorrectly by so many outlets and people, including within St. Norbert College itself?  Any insight?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Stoppable on July 12, 2019, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Ryan Stoppable on April 09, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Quote from: gordonmann on June 25, 2019, 12:12:31 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

The official release on the St. Norbert website (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/?fbclid=IwAR0koaNWRPxDu66Q8e5ePjmNGrLnfba4-jhdQVQ8H-Y6pPiTeGUPt-YvoRM) says they will join the NACC beginning in the 2021-22 school year.  And on the NACC website, the members pull-down menu lists 2021 for St. Norbert and the St. Norbert page on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/members/stnorbert/info) lists 2021-22 as the year they become full members.  I couldn't find an official release from the NACC.

However, almost all other mentions of their move to the NACC, not only by media outlets but by St. Norbert itself, says they will join in 2020-21, including in the St. Norbert College Magazine article (https://www.snc.edu/magazine/2019spring/nacc.html) and the St. Norbert facebook post and twitter tweet (https://twitter.com/stnorbert/status/1113457788443877376) that link to the official release.

So, what is the story?  I would tend to believe the official release and NACC website, but how would it get reported incorrectly by so many outlets and people, including within St. Norbert College itself?  Any insight?

Good catch on that! Please note, the below is pure speculation on my part.

The original news article on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/general/2018-19/releases/20190403150irt) said they would join in 2020-21. This, combined with the above, would lead me to believe that they originally intended to join the NACC in 20-21 but that it got pushed back a year since the initial announcement, so the current plan is to join in 21-22.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 12, 2019, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:13:12 PM
And this article makes it sound like Johnson & Wales-Denver has skipped over year two and will be in year three of provisional membership in 2019-20.

JWU Denver successfully completes first year of NCAA provisional membership process
https://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190627nvtmgx
QuoteIn making the transition from NAIA to NCAA DIII, JWU Denver has now successfully completed its Exploratory Year (2017-18) and first provisional year (2018-19).

Starting Sept. 1, 2019, the Wildcats will officially begin Year 3 of what is traditionally a five-year process.

If this is accurate, this wouldn't just be significant because it means JWU-Denver would reach full, active membership a year sooner, but because games against them would count as in-Division games already this year for ranking and selection purposes (i.e., factor into other team's in-Division WLT record and Strength-of-Schedule in the primary selection criteria).

I don't think they skipped a year. If this is year 3 of 5, the 5 years are the exploratory year plus the four provisional years, which would mean they're still in provisional year 2.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 12, 2019, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:13:12 PM
And this article makes it sound like Johnson & Wales-Denver has skipped over year two and will be in year three of provisional membership in 2019-20.

JWU Denver successfully completes first year of NCAA provisional membership process
https://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190627nvtmgx
QuoteIn making the transition from NAIA to NCAA DIII, JWU Denver has now successfully completed its Exploratory Year (2017-18) and first provisional year (2018-19).

Starting Sept. 1, 2019, the Wildcats will officially begin Year 3 of what is traditionally a five-year process.

If this is accurate, this wouldn't just be significant because it means JWU-Denver would reach full, active membership a year sooner, but because games against them would count as in-Division games already this year for ranking and selection purposes (i.e., factor into other team's in-Division WLT record and Strength-of-Schedule in the primary selection criteria).

I don't think they skipped a year. If this is year 3 of 5, the 5 years are the exploratory year plus the four provisional years, which would mean they're still in provisional year 2.

That's almost certainly correct--third of five (counting the exploratory year).  The NCAA would never describe it as such and since I am so used to reading and using the NCAA terminology I simply missed the fairly obvious intention of what was written. If they had used the lower case "third year" I might not have been thrown off, but the uppercase "Year 3" tripped me up, though I did find it hard to believe because it's usually (if not always) Year 3 of Provisional Membership (the fourth year of the five-year process) that is the one that gets waived when a school is exceeding expectations in the transition.  Sorry for generating any unnecessary confusion.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 12, 2019, 11:27:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Ryan Stoppable on April 09, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Quote from: gordonmann on June 25, 2019, 12:12:31 AM
Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

The official release on the St. Norbert website (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/?fbclid=IwAR0koaNWRPxDu66Q8e5ePjmNGrLnfba4-jhdQVQ8H-Y6pPiTeGUPt-YvoRM) says they will join the NACC beginning in the 2021-22 school year.  And on the NACC website, the members pull-down menu lists 2021 for St. Norbert and the St. Norbert page on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/members/stnorbert/info) lists 2021-22 as the year they become full members.  I couldn't find an official release from the NACC.

However, almost all other mentions of their move to the NACC, not only by media outlets but by St. Norbert itself, says they will join in 2020-21, including in the St. Norbert College Magazine article (https://www.snc.edu/magazine/2019spring/nacc.html) and the St. Norbert facebook post and twitter tweet (https://twitter.com/stnorbert/status/1113457788443877376) that link to the official release.

So, what is the story?  I would tend to believe the official release and NACC website, but how would it get reported incorrectly by so many outlets and people, including within St. Norbert College itself?  Any insight?

The same reason so many textbooks report erroneous information.  Textbook writers rarely use original sources - they copy from one another.  So once one makes an error (IF it is a commonly used text), the error gets perpetuated ad infinitum.  Now why people within St. Norbert itself would continue that, who knows - probably the same lazy copying.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 13, 2019, 10:50:39 AM
Update:

Quote from: gordonmann on June 25, 2019, 12:12:31 AM
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

This was just announced on Thursday. (https://goslugs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190711hvtabe)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 13, 2019, 02:14:19 PM
Apparently SUNY Delhi is staying in the ACAA for basketball and softball this year before they move those sports to the NAC next in 2020–21. This means the ACAA has six schools in men's basketball this year and seven in women's, but SUNY Delhi and Pratt are of course provisional.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 13, 2019, 03:09:29 PM
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 13, 2019, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 13, 2019, 03:09:29 PM
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 12:57:17 PM
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 14, 2019, 03:34:21 PM
Corrected (I think)

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  Dean (presumed)
2nd year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program


Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022

St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 07:20:45 PM

Pfeiffer has a press release saying they'll be Year Four provisional this year.  Did they get that wrong?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 15, 2019, 10:16:56 AM
No, I got it wrong. Thanks for the correction. I fixed it below.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 15, 2019, 10:33:38 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 15, 2019, 10:16:56 AM
No, I got it wrong. Thanks for the correction. I fixed it below.

and then in the 20-21 column as noted last week, Dean from NECC to GNAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Christan Shirk on July 15, 2019, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 13, 2019, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 13, 2019, 03:09:29 PM
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 12:57:17 PM
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.

Apparently not everyone is OK with an AQ going to a conference with an arrangement like the ACAA (and the GSAC in its latter years) where there is no conference regular season schedule, just an end-of-season conference tournament.  The Conference Automatic Qualification Requirements Working Group of the Division III Championships Committee looked at this issue and the potential for some sort of a conference regular season requirement and they ended up recommending that teams should be required to play regular season games against at least 70% of their conference opponents in order to be eligible to earn the conference's automatic berth.  The Championships Committee supported the concept, but wouldn't endorse a specific percentage, wanting feedback from the Division III Conference Commissioners Association concerning what percentage of conference opponents teams currently play in other conferences.

[Sources:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment (at the end)
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2019D3CC_Report.pdf (see item 10)


Now, I note that the recommendation as described does not speak to conference eligibility for an automatic berth, but rather team eligibility to earn that automatic berth. But despite the difference, the effect could be the same in the end.  Some of the incentive (i.e. a chance at an automatic berth) to join a geographically scattered conference with only a conference tournament would be lost, and with reduced incentive it could become even harder to recruit enough schools to gain the automatic berth in the first place.  Sure, there's still the incentive to have a chance at a conference championship and conference awards/honors.




Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on July 15, 2019, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 13, 2019, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 13, 2019, 03:09:29 PM
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 12:57:17 PM
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.

Apparently not everyone is OK with an AQ going to a conference with an arrangement like the ACAA (and the GSAC in its latter years) where there is no conference regular season schedule, just an end-of-season conference tournament.  The Conference Automatic Qualification Requirements Working Group of the Division III Championships Committee looked at this issue and the potential for some sort of a conference regular season requirement and they ended up recommending that teams should be required to play regular season games against at least 70% of their conference opponents in order to be eligible to earn the conference's automatic berth.  The Championships Committee supported the concept, but wouldn't endorse a specific percentage, wanting feedback from the Division III Conference Commissioners Association concerning what percentage of conference opponents teams currently play in other conferences.

[Sources:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment (at the end)
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2019D3CC_Report.pdf (see item 10)


Now, I note that the recommendation as described does not speak to conference eligibility for an automatic berth, but rather team eligibility to earn that automatic berth. But despite the difference, the effect could be the same in the end.  Some of the incentive (i.e. a chance at an automatic berth) to join a geographically scattered conference with only a conference tournament would be lost, and with reduced incentive it could become even harder to recruit enough schools to gain the automatic berth in the first place.  Sure, there's still the incentive to have a chance at a conference championship and conference awards/honors.




Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.

Question about the 70% rule though with St. Norbert leaving the MWC it's likely to be a moot point at least for now. They had 12 teams for football (two 6 team divisions). You played your division (5) and crossover and played two teams for the other division (2). Then there was the championship at the end (1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd, etc). It is possible you could play a team you met in the crossover and would end up playing 7 of 11 conference teams for 63.6% of the conference. Is this possibly why the percentage to use was thrown into question?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 15, 2019, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on July 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on July 15, 2019, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 13, 2019, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 13, 2019, 03:09:29 PM
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 12:57:17 PM
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.

Apparently not everyone is OK with an AQ going to a conference with an arrangement like the ACAA (and the GSAC in its latter years) where there is no conference regular season schedule, just an end-of-season conference tournament.  The Conference Automatic Qualification Requirements Working Group of the Division III Championships Committee looked at this issue and the potential for some sort of a conference regular season requirement and they ended up recommending that teams should be required to play regular season games against at least 70% of their conference opponents in order to be eligible to earn the conference's automatic berth.  The Championships Committee supported the concept, but wouldn't endorse a specific percentage, wanting feedback from the Division III Conference Commissioners Association concerning what percentage of conference opponents teams currently play in other conferences.

[Sources:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment (at the end)
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2019D3CC_Report.pdf (see item 10)


Now, I note that the recommendation as described does not speak to conference eligibility for an automatic berth, but rather team eligibility to earn that automatic berth. But despite the difference, the effect could be the same in the end.  Some of the incentive (i.e. a chance at an automatic berth) to join a geographically scattered conference with only a conference tournament would be lost, and with reduced incentive it could become even harder to recruit enough schools to gain the automatic berth in the first place.  Sure, there's still the incentive to have a chance at a conference championship and conference awards/honors.




Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.

Question about the 70% rule though with St. Norbert leaving the MWC it's likely to be a moot point at least for now. They had 12 teams for football (two 6 team divisions). You played your division (5) and crossover and played two teams for the other division (2). Then there was the championship at the end (1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd, etc). It is possible you could play a team you met in the crossover and would end up playing 7 of 11 conference teams for 63.6% of the conference. Is this possibly why the percentage to use was thrown into question?

Like you, I assume when the NCAA refers to "regular season" that includes the conference tournaments (basically, from the NCAA perspective, everything pre-NCAA tournament is regular season).  But as you point out, there's not always a guarantee that you face different conference opponents in the conference tournament.  So, is this additional encouragement to keep conferences from getting so big?

I think there are two key questions in settling on a threshold percentage:
(1) What to do with the larger conferences that have two divisions?  Whatever percentage threshold that's settled on would be easier to meet in a smaller, single-division conference than in a large, two-division conference.
(2) How difficult do they want to make it for a conference just trying to give a home to geographically-dispersed independents?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2019, 10:37:13 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 10, 2019, 10:37:43 PM
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.

impacts on the NECC...

field hockey/men's lacrosse - already combined with the NAC for 1 auto bid**; men's golf - already Pool B anyway; M/W XC-T&F - non-auto bid sports

WBB, WSOC, women's VB, softball - down to 7 teams but hang on to Pool A by their fingernails for now

MSOC, MBB, baseball - grace period begins fall 2020; will be Pool B starting in 2022-23 if no other additions

men's volleyball - grace period starts this fall anyway, Pool B in 2022 season. Only 3 core NECC remaining members will sponsor MVB (Elms, ENC, Lesley), without that number getting up to at least 4 they can never get the auto bid back once they lose it.

women's lacrosse - grace period was already starting 2019-20 due to only 6 remaining teams, that will become 5. B in 2022.

**when Dean leaves, it looks like the combined NECC/NAC FH will only have 6 teams, thus starting the clock to be Pool B in fall 2022. I imagine the 3 remaining NECC men's lacrosse teams (NEC, Becker, Mitchell) will just be absorbed into the 7-team NAC, although Mitchell is a long drive.

going to correct myself on a couple points about the NECC...I think.

Field hockey will keep Pool A because they added Manhattanville as an affiliate member. The league standings page lists Bay Path for 2019 after not playing in 2018, but they discontinued the sport.

Men's soccer, men's hoops and baseball - grace period should actually start this year not next because although they have 7 teams, one of them (Dean) is not yet postseason eligible. So Pool B in 2021-22. (This is probably the only one of my three points truly relevant to this board)

Women's lacrosse - grace period should have already started with 7 teams/6 eligible in spring '19. Pool B in spring '21.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 19, 2019, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2019, 10:37:13 AM
going to correct myself on a couple points about the NECC...I think.

Field hockey will keep Pool A because they added Manhattanville as an affiliate member. The league standings page lists Bay Path for 2019 after not playing in 2018, but they discontinued the sport.

Men's soccer, men's hoops and baseball - grace period should actually start this year not next because although they have 7 teams, one of them (Dean) is not yet postseason eligible. So Pool B in 2021-22. (This is probably the only one of my three points truly relevant to this board)

Women's lacrosse - grace period should have already started with 7 teams/6 eligible in spring '19. Pool B in spring '21.

Aren't provisional teams allowed to count now? At any rate, I think Dean's football team is counting for the ECFC – if it wasn't, the ECFC would have already finished the grace period and would be in Pool B this year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 19, 2019, 01:21:16 PM

I believe third and fourth year teams count towards membership numbers.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 19, 2019, 01:41:10 PM
this text was in a post earlier on this page:

Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.

that would seem to indicate this is not currently the case and teams that haven't graduated to active status don't count towards the 7 at this time.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 19, 2019, 01:44:22 PM
They don't count in the waiting period, but I think they do otherwise.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 22, 2019, 10:28:53 PM
Sorry for my absents of late ... long story.

This was announced the other day: https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190816fziny7

This brings to the close what had become an interesting game of chess - or chicken. Long story short, the NEAC appears to have tried to save the three schools from leaving ... but they went anyway. They apparently are done with Morrisville according to multiple sources off the record. That's why Morrisville isn't part of this move, something I know was part of the plan for quite some time now.

NEAC loses three members. That will either be good or cause bigger problems. I am leaning towards the second option. I just don't see the rest of the northern part sticking, but I need to see where some other pieces are being placed before I have a better understanding.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 23, 2019, 09:04:24 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 22, 2019, 10:28:53 PM
Sorry for my absents of late ... long story.

This was announced the other day: https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190816fziny7

This brings to the close what had become an interesting game of chess - or chicken. Long story short, the NEAC appears to have tried to save the three schools from leaving ... but they went anyway. They apparently are done with Morrisville according to multiple sources off the record. That's why Morrisville isn't part of this move, something I know was part of the plan for quite some time now.

NEAC loses three members. That will either be good or cause bigger problems. I am leaning towards the second option. I just don't see the rest of the northern part sticking, but I need to see where some other pieces are being placed before I have a better understanding.

Whoa. That's a big shakeup out there. Wells and the Empire 8 would be a great fit for each other. Could Mooville return to the SUNYAC? Not sure the ADs would be thrilled about going to 11, but they could make it work if they wanted to.

Looking at the impact on the NEAC from the announcement...

MBB/WBB/MSOC/WSOC/SOFT/WVB - 12 to 8. Pool B clock would only start if both Morrisville and Wells leave.

BSB - goes from 10 teams to 11 this spring with PSU Harrisburg, but down to 7 next year when Keuka, Caz, Poly, Cobleskill leave. Morrisville doesn't have baseball, but a Wells departure would make 6 and start the Pool B clock.

MGOLF - 8 to 9 this year (1 affiliate member) then down to 7; clock starts if Morrisville leaves (Wells does not sponsor)

MLAX - 9 this year (3 affiliate members) then down to 5, Pool B in 2023; if MSC and Wells also leave then basically NEAC men's lacrosse disappears.
WLAX - 10 this year (3 affiliate members) then down to 7; clock starts if either M or W also leaves. Would be <4 core members too.

MTEN/WTEN - no change. Combined championship with the NAC for a Pool A bid, none of the departing schools have tennis and neither do Wells or Morrisville State.

MVB - this gets super weird to me. They weren't Pool A until 2017, then had 2 good years, then fell to 6 last season to start the grace period. Potsdam (first year program) was added as an affiliate member for this coming season which puts them back at 7. However in '21, although none of the departing schools have Pool A conferences to definitely join (Keuka could do UVC) and they could all agree to stay together - the NEAC will have no more than 2 core members with men's volleyball and possibly only one (LBC). I guess that would restart the clock for Pool B in 2023. I have another theory on what will happen, but it's very MVB-specific and only the VolleyTalk forum would likely care.

FH - NEAC field hockey was never Pool A and will simply cease to exist after this season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 30, 2019, 11:08:53 PM
Mary Baldwin will add a men's team in 2021-22.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/08/mary-baldwin-adds-mens-hoops
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 30, 2019, 11:12:15 PM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (CSI will still honor its CUNYAC schedule but is a provisional D2 member)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 31, 2019, 09:14:56 AM

Lindenwood-Belleville was approved for exploratory membership then decided to withdraw, but the membership committee voted to keep them on the exploratory list until at least September 1st (tomorrow).  It probably makes sense for us to not have them on the list.


Also, according to the membership committee minutes from June, Dean was also approved to skip Year 3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 31, 2019, 09:14:56 AM

Lindenwood-Belleville was approved for exploratory membership then decided to withdraw, but the membership committee voted to keep them on the exploratory list until at least September 1st (tomorrow).  It probably makes sense for us to not have them on the list.

Lindenwood-Belleville doesn't exist anymore. The campus was shut down for everything but evening classes back in May, including campus housing, student services, and the athletic department.

Who knows why in the world the D3 membership committee voted to keep a defunct school on the exploratory list.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 11:03:29 AM
Lindenwood-Belleville is open through May 2020. 

They are fielding teams in each sport as planned.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 31, 2019, 11:40:42 AM
From Lindenwood Belleville site:

"After much deliberation and discussion around potential enrollment strategies for the Lindenwood University Belleville, Ill., campus, the university's Board of Trustees has voted to consolidate the daytime undergraduate academic programs from its Belleville campus to the St. Charles, Mo., campus following the 2019-2020 academic year."

BUT, unfortunately

"Just weeks before the opening kickoff of the year, the Lindenwood University-Belleville administration has elected to cancel the 2019 football season.

Chris Duggan, a spokesperson with the school, confirmed on Friday that because of a lack of depth at some positions, university administration determined that going forward with the season would be unsafe for the remaining athletes."

Indeed, Men's and Women's soccer and women's volleyball have already had games this past week...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 11:59:58 AM
Sorry about that. The initial report I had read last spring was that the school was going to close at the end of the school year.

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 31, 2019, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 11:59:58 AM
Sorry about that. The initial report I had read last spring was that the school was going to close at the end of the school year.

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.

Greg another interesting quote from Lindenwood-Belleville.. though it doesn't go into detail..

"The university in May announced it would continue to honor athletic scholarships and afford Belleville athletes preferred tryouts with Lindenwood teams, without the guarantee of a roster spot. "
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 12:33:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 11:59:58 AM

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.

When every student is a student-athlete...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
Also, I don't think you will find a report that has the school closing in 2019. We all make mistakes. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on August 31, 2019, 12:39:10 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 12:33:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 11:59:58 AM

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.

When every student is a student-athlete...

Or, when every sthlete is also a student, whether or not they get to play their sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
Also, I don't think you will find a report that has the school closing in 2019. We all make mistakes.

Could be. I've certainly made my fair share. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on September 05, 2019, 03:16:24 PM
Did Lori Loughlin's kids transfer to Lindenwood - Belleville?  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 05, 2019, 03:34:12 PM
From an online article published today about the Loughlin/Giannulli case:

QuoteVlogger and beauty influencer Olivia Jade, 19, is worried she won't be able to rebuild her brand, and it's left her "resentful," says the source.

I'm curious. What D3 schools out there have majors applicable to careers in the beauty-influencing field, and do any have courses specifically tailored to address the problems of personal-brand rebuilding?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: GU1999 on September 06, 2019, 03:50:45 PM
I think that Most B-schools would just wrap this into their digital media marketing programs.  I think that many d3 schools would have concentrations or even majors in this area.  Interestingly, when I googled digital media marketing major, Elmhurst was one of the schools to appear on the first page of search results.  They call their major - Digital Marketing Communication.   As for the personal brand rebuilding part Olivia Jade may just need to take a nice cross section of liberal arts core courses.

It would surprise me if there were many serious universities which didn't taking the subject of social media influencing seriously in the context of business/marketing are programs even if they haven't yet packaged a major/concentration.   
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on October 10, 2019, 05:12:23 PM
just wanted to check...SUNY-Delhi is listed (in Gordon Mann's post of Aug 30) as going to the NAC in 2020-21............ They are not included as a member of the Men's ACAA conference for 2019-20 on the ACAA site (they are not in the 2019-20 standings nor in the ACAA Men's Season-long Schedule), though their women are listed as WBB members..  So is SUNY Delhi an Independent in 2019-20?   I just want to make sure I'm not missing something....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on October 11, 2019, 11:23:46 AM
Quote from: hopefan on October 10, 2019, 05:12:23 PM
just wanted to check...SUNY-Delhi is listed (in Gordon Mann's post of Aug 30) as going to the NAC in 2020-21............ They are not included as a member of the Men's ACAA conference for 2019-20 on the ACAA site (they are not in the 2019-20 standings nor in the ACAA Men's Season-long Schedule), though their women are listed as WBB members..  So is SUNY Delhi an Independent in 2019-20?   I just want to make sure I'm not missing something....

Found the answer.. from Delhi... The Conference site is in error for not listing them... will be corrected....They are an ACAA member this year....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 06, 2019, 06:05:42 PM
UC Santa Cruz is now an AAU member: https://www.aau.edu/newsroom/press-releases/three-leading-research-universities-join-association-american-universities
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on November 06, 2019, 07:04:50 PM
Yes, the AAU...

It is good for the school but it is hard to imagine how it impacts varsity athletics.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on November 12, 2019, 10:23:46 AM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (CSI will still honor its CUNYAC schedule but is a provisional D2 member)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on November 13, 2019, 06:48:52 AM
Of the three first year provisionals, St. Thomas Texas plays a full D3 schedule (22 games) and a full SCAC home and away schedule... they were even included in the pre season SCAC poll............  Pratt and Mississippi Women do not play a D3 schedule....

I'm curious why St. T is not listed as a D3 school therefore in D3hoops regional listings and on the scoreboard, with a link to their site...the same thing happened to SUNY-Delhi last year though they played a full D3 schedule and were allowed to take part in the ACCA tourney...I am thinking that St. T's games in the SCAC probably don't count in the standings, but given the nature of their schedule, I think it makes sense to consider them a D3 team on these pages.....Second year provisionals JWU-Denver and SUNY Delhi are now included...

For the purpose of my W/l versus D3 non-conference teams, I will include St. Thomas as an SCAC-D3 member..

I also see that through today, Texas Tyler is still listed as a D3 team, which seems to be in error... there score appeared on the scoreboard last night, but got caught by D3hoops and deleted.... need to get them out of the system.....

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2019, 11:44:38 AM
Yes, we probably will. Typically we don't include all first-year provisionals because of the number that wash out at that point, and because we would be putting ourselves on the hook for collecting all of those scores. Typically those schools don't play a lot of D-III's.

STTX is an exception to that and we'll get there.

You can always just email things you think are errors, as always. Posting here isn't the best way to reach a D3sports.com person.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2019, 04:02:14 PM
Quote from: hopefan on November 13, 2019, 06:48:52 AM
Of the three first year provisionals, St. Thomas Texas plays a full D3 schedule (22 games) and a full SCAC home and away schedule... they were even included in the pre season SCAC poll............  Pratt and Mississippi Women do not play a D3 schedule....

I'm curious why St. T is not listed as a D3 school therefore in D3hoops regional listings and on the scoreboard, with a link to their site...the same thing happened to SUNY-Delhi last year though they played a full D3 schedule and were allowed to take part in the ACCA tourney...I am thinking that St. T's games in the SCAC probably don't count in the standings, but given the nature of their schedule, I think it makes sense to consider them a D3 team on these pages.....Second year provisionals JWU-Denver and SUNY Delhi are now included...

For the purpose of my W/l versus D3 non-conference teams, I will include St. Thomas as an SCAC-D3 member..

I also see that through today, Texas Tyler is still listed as a D3 team, which seems to be in error... there score appeared on the scoreboard last night, but got caught by D3hoops and deleted.... need to get them out of the system.....

SCAC has had provisionals count in the standings before. There was a season a few years ago when either the team that made the NCAA tournament had LOST in the conference title game, but was the regular season best team and given the AQ ... or there was a chance of it happening. I think it involved Trinity TX. Who they were playing was not eligible for the NCAA tournament, but they were involved in the SCAC and such.

I could be confusing it with a program maybe in its third or fourth season in DIII when more is included, but Centenary (La.) comes to mind.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on December 11, 2019, 11:19:45 AM
Southern Virginia U to join USA South in 2021, leaving the Capital Athletic Conference with four just public colleges. Start shoveling the dirt, the CAC is dead.
https://www.usasouth.net/general/2019-20/releases/20191206o7zom0
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 11, 2019, 06:51:57 PM
Any chance they can get the NJAC to take in the survivors?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2019, 11:07:57 PM
With SVU joining in 2021-22, how close is the USA South to splitting into 2 conferences and permitting the "seceding" schools to remain as affiliates in those sports for which the seceding conference would not have an AQ?

Warren Wilson and Bob Jones are in the pipeline and even MUW, if the conference wants to expand 3 hours in a westward direction.  MUW would be the "Sul Ross State" of the USA South.

QuoteProvisional Pipeline for 2019-2020

*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)

1st year provisional members: ... Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2019, 11:10:33 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on December 11, 2019, 06:51:57 PM
Any chance they can get the NJAC to take in the survivors?

No. Their charter doesn't allow full-time members to be outside of New Jersey. I know it has been considered and they may take applications (if schools want to spend the money), but they won't take them.

Furthermore, there is no way you are going to convince schools in the NJAC to travel down to Fredericksburg, Salisbury, and Newport News - especially in double-round robin sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 12, 2019, 02:43:43 AM
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on December 12, 2019, 03:28:59 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 12, 2019, 02:43:43 AM
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

One problem with that is CNU, Mary Washington, and Salisbury are state schools, and all the schools in the ODAC are small private colleges. Same issue with the USA South, the Centennial, and the Atlantic East. The only option for these schools might be joining the Allegheny Mountain or North Eastern conferences. Either way, Mary Washington and CNU would be WAY outside the footprints of the conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on December 12, 2019, 03:38:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2019, 11:07:57 PM
With SVU joining in 2021-22, how close is the USA South to splitting into 2 conferences and permitting the "seceding" schools to remain as affiliates in those sports for which the seceding conference would not have an AQ?

Warren Wilson and Bob Jones are in the pipeline and even MUW, if the conference wants to expand 3 hours in a westward direction.  MUW would be the "Sul Ross State" of the USA South.

Not that likely. After SVU joins, USA South will have 14 co-ed schools and 5 women's colleges. Most of the schools sponsor the minimum number of sports that they need to be D3. If one co-ed school goes under or moves to NAIA or D2, then that will put any conference split in a bind. And the NCAA isn't about to allow the USA South to become a hybrid conference like the MAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2019, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).

Here is that to which Dave was alluding - St. Mary's (Md.) to NEAC:

https://smcmathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20191212euo68z

gotta be the last straw for Morrisville and Wells, right? 8 hours each way to SMC from Central New York.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: DCAbloob on December 12, 2019, 12:54:35 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on December 12, 2019, 03:28:59 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 12, 2019, 02:43:43 AM
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

One problem with that is CNU, Mary Washington, and Salisbury are state schools, and all the schools in the ODAC are small private colleges. Same issue with the USA South, the Centennial, and the Atlantic East. The only option for these schools might be joining the Allegheny Mountain or North Eastern conferences. Either way, Mary Washington and CNU would be WAY outside the footprints of the conferences.

Mary Washington wouldn't be significantly further away than St. Mary's for the NEAC at this point. Christopher Newport would have a much tougher go of it. Any port in a storm though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 12, 2019, 02:09:18 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (MD) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 12, 2019, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2019, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).

Here is that to which Dave was alluding - St. Mary's (Md.) to NEAC:

https://smcmathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20191212euo68z

gotta be the last straw for Morrisville and Wells, right? 8 hours each way to SMC from Central New York.

What's the chances that SUNY-Morrisville fully joins its institutional peers in the SUNYAC? The Mustangs are already associate members of the SUNYAC for men's hockey and for field hockey.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2019, 03:04:49 PM
they removed themselves from the SUNYAC for general non-competitiveness in...I don't recall what year, 2008? They did the SUNYAC a favor and stayed to get their butts kicked in field hockey to keep the Pool A bid in exchange for being allowed to stay in men's ice hockey as well.

The department seems to have stabilized in the NEAC and while the SUNYAC would be a significant step back up in competition, I think they could handle it...would the league take them back and wind up with a funky 11-member alignment in a bunch of sports? Hard to say. The SUNYAC can be surprisingly snobby; SUNY Canton approached them about joining a few years ago, at least as a hockey affiliate, and were basically told to get bent, from what I heard.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2019, 05:41:57 PM
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The basketball season now finds itself square in the middle of not only the holidays, but also finals. Teams are taking breaks to focus on academics and either not playing until the new year or finding openings to fit in games here and there.

And while the tempo of games subsides a bit, there is still plenty of news swirling around Division III. Tune in as Dave and guests tackle all of the news this week in what should be a jam-packed Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) on Thursday night.

Topics will include the latest news of two Capital Athletic Conference members announcing they are leaving for other conference homes. What is next for the CAC which will be down to just three members by 2021-22 season. The rumors about St. Thomas's future continue to swirl, we at least try and put some of those rumors to rest. And a MIAC president finally speaks out about the decision to push UST out the door. Maybe he should have not said anything.

Plus, there is a new number one team in women's basketball, a team that nearly completed an undefeated season has reemerged, another former champion is showing they may be back in the hunt, and a program we haven't talked about in a long time has made it known they are ready for the season.

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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on December 12, 2019, 08:12:21 PM
SUNY has 20 campuses competing at the D-3 level.  10 are in the SUNYAC, by next year 4 will be in the NAC.  4 are in the Skyline due to geography.  Alfred State is in the AMCC again due to geography, and SUNY Delhi, which will be third year in 2020-21 is in the notional [spread all over the country] American Collegiate Athletic Assn. 

Not sure exactly what the auto bid rules are but the 16 SUNY schools north of Westchester could be split into two 8 team conferences, each with auto bids, similar to MAC Centennial and MAC Freedom.

That could be an option and split the schools by geography [East West] or size [Large Small].

East could be:

Canton,
Cobleskill
Delhi
New Paltz
Oneonta
Plattsburgh
Potsdam
SUNY Poly

West Could be:

Alfred State
Brockport
Buffalo State
Cortland
Fredonia
Geneseo
Morrisville
Oswego

Food for thought, would guarantee two auto bids eventually.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2019, 12:18:58 AM
That would not guarantee two autobids. Not if it is one conference - the SUNYAC. It would have to be two completely separate conferences not associated with one another and not run by any of the same people.

The USA South and ASC are the closest to this model currently and they don't have extra bids and won't get them, either.

The MAC setup with the Commonwealth and Freedom is a LONG ago grandfathered clause. NO conference will get that allowance ever again.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on December 13, 2019, 06:29:37 AM
Thanks and that is a great explanation of why the already 10 team SUNYAC won't be looking for other SUNY schools to join.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2019, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: thebear on December 13, 2019, 06:29:37 AM
Thanks and that is a great explanation of why the already 10 team SUNYAC won't be looking for other SUNY schools to join.

The biggest reason I think the SUNYAC has to be careful about inviting more members ... the schedule becomes a real pain in the rear and you kill chances at improving the SOS of individual teams.

In your example (with the understanding of one AQ), you figure each team plays its division in two games per opponent and one for the other division. That means 22 of a max 25 games per season. No conference schedule should kill off any chances of playing that few non-conference games. The MIAC went back to currently only giving five non-conference dates and that is ridiculous. The ASC also has a ridiculous non-conference limit that badly hurts those teams from getting at-large chances because they can't do much with their non-conference schedules (the ASC also gets hurt when their bottom teams don't try and do anything more with their non-conference opponents and schedule conference foes for an extra, non-conf game).

The SUNYAC currently has 18 games in conference. I think that is about the max a conference wants to give their teams the best chance at improving their non-conference schedule. It would be better at 16, but 18 is understandable with the way some conferences are designed. That is the biggest reason I think the SUNYAC won't be looking to expand any further.

The fact Canton, Cobleskill, and SUNYIT are in the NAC now and starting next season is another good reason I don't see the SUNYAC being any bigger as well.

I am not sure what Morrisville State does. Again, I thought the idea of bringing them into the NAC was pretty solid, but the other SUNYs didn't like the idea from what I was told (from several sources). So that leaves Morrisville floating at the northern end of the NEAC, which is going to shrink a bit more in the future making scheduling tougher on Morrisville.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ScottieSuit on December 13, 2019, 04:47:47 PM
Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: ScottieSuit on December 13, 2019, 04:47:47 PM
Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

They can keep the conference, just without AQs.  As Dave has been saying, there's a lot of advantage to having a recognized conference in the NCAA.  If they're ok losing the AQ, they can add teams as they're able and work their way back up.  I'm not sure there's a good fit for CNU at this point.  Salisbury might be in the same boat.  Mary Washington may have options to go elsewhere, but who knows?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2019, 06:59:10 PM
I keep wondering how all of those tiny West Virginia state schools in the 1,000-4,000 student range can maintain their D2 budgets, and what a nice match they'd make for the CAC stragglers if at least four of them moved to D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2019, 10:08:39 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: ScottieSuit on December 13, 2019, 04:47:47 PM
Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

They can keep the conference, just without AQs.  As Dave has been saying, there's a lot of advantage to having a recognized conference in the NCAA.  If they're ok losing the AQ, they can add teams as they're able and work their way back up.  I'm not sure there's a good fit for CNU at this point.  Salisbury might be in the same boat.  Mary Washington may have options to go elsewhere, but who knows?
Please correct me, but I think that a conference must have 4 full members to be recognized.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 14, 2019, 05:06:31 PM
Ralph - I need to double-check what, if any, minimum exists for a conference to be recognized. The three-member status does worry me in that regard and has thrown much of what I say about staying together as a conference into some question.

At the very least, it still makes sense to stay together as a conference because otherwise as independents all student, coach, and other awards given in a conference are gone. A conference championship is gone as well. Not much to play or recruit for if you can't even talk about performance awards. It also allows for a few games to be scheduled, especially in February in basketball (near the end of other sports' seasons), when no other decent teams will be available due to their own conference schedules.

I need to take the temperature of schools now, but still we are talking 21-22 ... the CAC still has the chance to find a few schools which I know they have been working on for quite some time. I talked about a few on Hoopsville Thursday (first block of the show).

Per Mary Washington, they are in the same boat essentially as Salisbury and CNU. They are a public-honors school like SMC, but they are more successful and spending more I believe than SMC. That makes them less enticing for a conference like NEAC - though, the NEAC isn't going to want to travel 90 minutes (on a good day) south of Washington DC (Gallaudet) to play games in conference. But UMW doesn't have any options around them of conferences that will take them since they are not a private institution.

As for West Virginia schools ... I have no idea how that all works from their perspective, but if they start to change their minds, the CAC would be the perfect place for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 18, 2019, 10:43:31 PM
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf

Did that just come out?  I looked for it last night at 10pm and couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on January 06, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf

Did that just come out?  I looked for it last night at 10pm and couldn't find it.

It apparently did just come out this morning, as KnightSlappy provided the link in his post.  More likely, there is a misprint in the men's handbook, as the women's handbook only has the CUNYAC at 8 teams, and does not list Staten Island as one of them.

I also checked the D2 Men's and Women's Tournament handbooks.  The D2 Women's Handbook has Staten Island as an ECC member not eligible.for the D2 Tournament, while Staten Island is not listed as an ECC member in the D2 Men's handbook.  There must be a mistake in the D2 Men's Handbook as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 01:49:47 PM
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 06, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf

Did that just come out?  I looked for it last night at 10pm and couldn't find it.

It apparently did just come out this morning, as KnightSlappy provided the link in his post.  More likely, there is a misprint in the men's handbook, as the women's handbook only has the CUNYAC at 8 teams, and does not list Staten Island as one of them.

I also checked the D2 Men's and Women's Tournament handbooks.  The D2 Women's Handbook has Staten Island as an ECC member not eligible.for the D2 Tournament, while Staten Island is not listed as an ECC member in the D2 Men's handbook.  There must be a mistake in the D2 Men's Handbook as well.

I must have gotten lucky with the timing. I looked for it a couple weeks back and it was not out at that time. I looked for it again today when ronk pointed out that I hadn't updated the regions for the conference movers yet over on the Pool C board.

Us finding an error within 24 hrs of release is par for the course, however.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 01:49:47 PM
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.

CSI games are also counting for the CUNYAC as conference games.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 06, 2020, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 01:49:47 PM
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.

CSI games are also counting for the CUNYAC as conference games.

No they are not... check the CUNY standings on the Cuny site...CSI at 0-0, games with CSI not included in conference w/l of other teams...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 06:07:06 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 06, 2020, 05:24:55 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 01:49:47 PM
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.

CSI games are also counting for the CUNYAC as conference games.

No they are not... check the CUNY standings on the Cuny site...CSI at 0-0, games with CSI not included in conference w/l of other teams...

I mean they count for the other teams.  At least, that's what we were told.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 06:07:06 PM
I mean they count for the other teams.  At least, that's what we were told.

Medgar Evers beat Staten Island on December 6, yet both their site and the CUNYAC site list them as 0-2 in conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on January 06, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 06:07:06 PM
I mean they count for the other teams.  At least, that's what we were told.

Medgar Evers beat Staten Island on December 6, yet both their site and the CUNYAC site list them as 0-2 in conference.

The DIII Championships Committee, at their September 2019 meeting, granted a waiver to allow the other CUNYAC schools to count their contests against Staten Island as a primary criteria in region non conference opponent for purposes of the 70 percent in region requirement and for purposes of Pool C at large selection.  All other D3 schools must put the Staten Island contests into the secondary criteria.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 06, 2020, 07:18:11 PM
I agree with Inkblot...for example, John Jay has wins over CCNY, Lehman, and Staten Island, but their record reads 2-0 on the CUNY site... and notice desicanton's writeup refers to in region non conference opponent...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 06, 2020, 09:21:54 PM
The key was that the committee didn't want the CUNYAC to be screwed in their schedules and such because CSI made a relatively last minute decision to jump to DII. Not enough time to necessarily solve the loss of two games for many.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 09:56:11 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 12, 2019, 02:43:43 AM
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

I think the ODAC charter states Private schools only.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 18, 2019, 10:43:31 PM
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html

Interesting how detailed the story covered the issue. The ACAA model will only solve about a 3rd of the sponsored sports issue. If you look at the sports/teams in the ACAA, it doesn't cover all the bases. And a conference affiliation such as this only addresses the AQ situation. It doesn't resolve scheduling issues for some sports such as basketball once January rolls around.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 18, 2019, 10:43:31 PM
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html

Interesting how detailed the story covered the issue. The ACAA model will only solve about a 3rd of the sponsored sports issue. If you look at the sports/teams in the ACAA, it doesn't cover all the bases. And a conference affiliation such as this only addresses the AQ situation. It doesn't resolve scheduling issues for some sports such as basketball once January rolls around.

I don't think the scheduling will be as significant considering how many schools are around the three remaining CAC schools - but their conference games would have to be isolated to February when finding a non-conference game will be impossible.

The problem with merging with the ACAA are two-fold (based on one another):
- The division is likely to require conferences to play a certain number of games during the regular season to be eligible as part of the AQ requirements. Giving an AQ out for just playing a conference tournament is something the division is not keen about what so ever.
- So if the top segment goes through, I cannot see an ACAA-CAC merged conference being able to get conference games during the season when it requires teams on the east coast and west coast to play one another - meaning travel.

While the ACAA seems like the CAC target, I am just not sure it can work out. There are six schools "available" (two are leaving next academic year for other conferences and the third already exists in a conference for basketball), but I just don't see how this works out for everyone. It very likely could depend on whether the division decides to put in the in-season conference play requirement (which I agree with, by the way).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2020, 03:04:29 PM

I mean, the real way to solve the ACAA, non-playing conference thing is just to guarantee a Pool B bid every year.  The ratio is what causes the problem.  The ACAA was only started because a lot of sports didn't have any access for independent schools.  A non-playing conference is really just making up for the Pool B bid.  I'm sure those schools would rather not have an organization and dues and all that if they had some other access to the tournament.

Honestly, if CNU is involved, some of those schools would have a better chance in Pool B than trying to compete with CNU for AQs every year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2020, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2020, 03:04:29 PM

I mean, the real way to solve the ACAA, non-playing conference thing is just to guarantee a Pool B bid every year.  The ratio is what causes the problem.  The ACAA was only started because a lot of sports didn't have any access for independent schools.  A non-playing conference is really just making up for the Pool B bid.  I'm sure those schools would rather not have an organization and dues and all that if they had some other access to the tournament.

Honestly, if CNU is involved, some of those schools would have a better chance in Pool B than trying to compete with CNU for AQs every year.

I don't think you can guarantee the Pool B, though. If there were only four or five schools with no access ... are we seriously just going to give a bid to one of them because it's guaranteed. The ratio makes sure that those schools have the same access ability as the rest of the division. The ratio is the same to the amount of bids. And now one could argue as the division has grown, it is harder because there are more teams than tournament slots - so guaranteeing a Pool B basically means those schools (four or five in my scenario) have to do next to nothing and have an easier chance at a Tournament berth.

I don't think that will fly.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 03:35:28 PM
Overall, as an ardent CNU fan, I just don't see any real solutions. I see a lot of patchwork options, which in the world of D3 sports, would change almost every year given CNU that sponsors over 20 sports. Something would certainly change every year.

The reasons have been mentioned:

1. CNU is public. So ODAC and USA South are not options.
2. Geography - Once ODAC and USA South are eliminated as possibilities, the next closest conferences are travel burdens to schools in those conferences. Why would they want to add CNU/UMW/SU and have significant travel (esp in the case of CNU)?

I've heard other people talk about D2 or D1. Also not options at the moment. Current CNU President says no.

Another option would be to remain an independent and rely on on field/court success to get into the post season.

I just don't see a long term conference option. But, I'm not in discussions on a daily basis as are the folks who are trying to resolve the issue. There are 3 schools involved -- so at least 3 AD's, 3 presidents plus the CAC commissioner and staff are all working this and have been for some time. Let's see what happens later this month when the NCAA convention takes place.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 03:35:28 PM
Overall, as an ardent CNU fan, I just don't see any real solutions. I see a lot of patchwork options, which in the world of D3 sports, would change almost every year given CNU that sponsors over 20 sports. Something would certainly change every year.

The reasons have been mentioned:

1. CNU is public. So ODAC and USA South are not options.
2. Geography - Once ODAC and USA South are eliminated as possibilities, the next closest conferences are travel burdens to schools in those conferences. Why would they want to add CNU/UMW/SU and have significant travel (esp in the case of CNU)?

I've heard other people talk about D2 or D1. Also not options at the moment. Current CNU President says no.

Another option would be to remain an independent and rely on on field/court success to get into the post season.

I just don't see a long term conference option. But, I'm not in discussions on a daily basis as are the folks who are trying to resolve the issue. There are 3 schools involved -- so at least 3 AD's, 3 presidents plus the CAC commissioner and staff are all working this and have been for some time. Let's see what happens later this month when the NCAA convention takes place.

Well let's correct a few things here...

First, CNU was in the USA South, so the being a public school doesn't mean the USAS is not an option.

Second, travel is a consideration, but more and more conferences are actually spreading themselves out ... so travel is in the cards and could be overcome, but yes it has to be a consideration.

D2 and D1 is not an option for any of these three schools. I know that for a fact especially since D2 is basically no-man's land at least for Salisbury - and thus I group in the other two.

Independent is a bad idea. You want to keep the conference name at the very least. Yes, three pulls the CAC below the line of having most of their status, but going independent gives the three schools even less of a voice in the NCAA. Not to mention the fact, at least you have games on your schedule taken care of even if they are as few as 4 (in most sports). Also, going independent removes student-athlete awards, coach awards, conference titles, etc. from the conversation - none of those are good ideas in the grand scheme of things.

Here is what they could do ... there are institutions like Regent who are looking to come into DIII. They can become a transition conference. Schools who are either entering DIII or can't get into conferences they want to get into can join the CAC for a few years and transition where they want. It allows the conference to remain and have conference games and even a better chance to continue growing - sometimes you have to start small to grow back to being big.

This is one of the rare conferences (even at a minimum of three) where Pool B is going to be a lock for them. It is essentially the Pool A for them and they will have it to themselves basically every year in every sport. So, this is one of the rare occasions where I don't fret about the Pool A necessarily for these teams. Yes, things are going to be hard and it can't last forever (more than maybe five years), but it isn't something that needs a St. Mary's type of overreaction - grabbing the first life raft that comes your way when CLEARLY the life raft's options were NOT thought through.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2020, 01:18:42 PM
Not to contradict Dave, but just because CNU was in the USA South previously doesn't mean they would be welcomed back. First off, conferences can always change bylaws, as we have been reminded in the past year, and even without a bylaw change, there's plenty of reason to think the USAC doesn't want CNU back.

Now, that having been said, the USAC has changed quite a bit since CNU left, and who knows who wants what among its membership. Never know.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 12:37:01 PMHere is what they could do ... there are institutions like Regent who are looking to come into DIII. They can become a transition conference. Schools who are either entering DIII or can't get into conferences they want to get into can join the CAC for a few years and transition where they want. It allows the conference to remain and have conference games and even a better chance to continue growing - sometimes you have to start small to grow back to being big.

I still think that a few strategic phone calls to specific undersized state-school campuses in West Virginia should be in order. You never know if those schools might be receptive to what would appear to be a logical move to D3 unless you ask.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2020, 01:18:42 PM
Not to contradict Dave, but just because CNU was in the USA South previously doesn't mean they would be welcomed back. First off, conferences can always change bylaws, as we have been reminded in the past year, and even without a bylaw change, there's plenty of reason to think the USAC doesn't want CNU back.

Now, that having been said, the USAC has changed quite a bit since CNU left, and who knows who wants what among its membership. Never know.

I wasn't saying CNU would be welcomed back in the least. I was simply saying that because CNU was a public that USAS was out isn't exactly correct. You know full well I don't think the USAS would welcome CNU back because most were glad to see CNU leave.

Now with that said, I do get the sense there are USAS members that are not affraid of CNU. That is the part that is intriguing to me and why there could be some schools in the USAS that are probably done with it's size (and those who keep thinking they can get two AQs SMH) and looking for another option. The CAC could fit that bill no matter what the travel is like. But that is pure speculation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 12:37:01 PMHere is what they could do ... there are institutions like Regent who are looking to come into DIII. They can become a transition conference. Schools who are either entering DIII or can't get into conferences they want to get into can join the CAC for a few years and transition where they want. It allows the conference to remain and have conference games and even a better chance to continue growing - sometimes you have to start small to grow back to being big.

I still think that a few strategic phone calls to specific undersized state-school campuses in West Virginia should be in order. You never know if those schools might be receptive to what would appear to be a logical move to D3 unless you ask.

This is another angle that could be interesting ... and with legislation in front of Division III to shorten the transition period from four to three years ... this could be a far more realistic venture than people realize. I haven't taken it seriously until I read the legislation, either. There are a lot of WV schools that I don't understand their affiliation. I think DIII would make a lot of sense and the CAC is a perfect place to at least transition if not fit in long-term.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 08, 2020, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!
I thought the ACAA did a 4 team conference tournament
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!

Ha ... for who would that treat be for? Unless CNU and Salisbury are in it, I am not sure how much of a treat it would be for me ... because I am also quite sure the pay wouldn't be that good. :)

As indicated, they do have a four-team tournament based on some ranking (I can't remember which).

But ... there was a time when the old GSAC and another group (maybe the ACAA) had the same kind of four-team tournament and one or more of those who qualified decided not to attend. Costs was part of the reasoning. If schools can't come to the tournament, playing conference games is a bust (to my earlier point).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 03:26:26 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!

Ha ... for who would that treat be for? Unless CNU and Salisbury are in it, I am not sure how much of a treat it would be for me ... because I am also quite sure the pay wouldn't be that good. :)

As indicated, they do have a four-team tournament based on some ranking (I can't remember which).

But ... there was a time when the old GSAC and another group (maybe the ACAA) had the same kind of four-team tournament and one or more of those who qualified decided not to attend. Costs was part of the reasoning. If schools can't come to the tournament, playing conference games is a bust (to my earlier point).

Looking back, it appears that Thomas Moore played Alfred in one semi-final and in the other Suny Dehli played Pine Manor! I will go looking for how they rank/qualify the teams.

EDIT: A wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Collegiate_Athletic_Association_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament) exists for the ACAA tournament... how embarrasing for me not to know this.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Baldini on January 08, 2020, 03:46:01 PM
I believe it was on the women's side that had schools turn down the ACAA tourney invites. Mount Mary and SUNY Delhi finished 3rd and 4th in the standing and neither played in the tournament. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 08, 2020, 03:50:43 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 03:26:26 PM
Looking back, it appears that Thomas Moore played Alfred in one semi-final and in the other Suny Dehli played Pine Manor! I will go looking for how they rank/qualify the teams.

EDIT: A wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Collegiate_Athletic_Association_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament) exists for the ACAA tournament... how embarrasing for me not to know this.

Wikipedia's coverage of Division III basketball leaves a lot to be desired. I don't think any of the articles mention the pool system.

Granted, I don't know how many of the football articles mentioned the pool system before I added those parts in.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 08, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!

Ha ... for who would that treat be for? Unless CNU and Salisbury are in it, I am not sure how much of a treat it would be for me ... because I am also quite sure the pay wouldn't be that good. :)

As indicated, they do have a four-team tournament based on some ranking (I can't remember which).

But ... there was a time when the old GSAC and another group (maybe the ACAA) had the same kind of four-team tournament and one or more of those who qualified decided not to attend. Costs was part of the reasoning. If schools can't come to the tournament, playing conference games is a bust (to my earlier point).

Reminds me of the D3 ECAC tourneys
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 12:25:21 PM
Usually ECACs the schools might show interest, but they have removed themselves from consideration before the brackets are made. The ECAC is well aware of who is in or not for those tournaments when bracketing.

In the example I was talking about, the teams simply didn't show up.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 09, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 12:25:21 PM
Usually ECACs the schools might show interest, but they have removed themselves from consideration before the brackets are made. The ECAC is well aware of who is in or not for those tournaments when bracketing.

In the example I was talking about, the teams simply didn't show up.

OUCH... that's pitiful
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on January 09, 2020, 01:11:56 PM
Speaking of the ACAA, Pine Manor would be a very good subject for the Hoopsville marathon show in January.  Pine Manor is a very small college that caters to immigrants, low-income people, and first generation college students.  85% of the undergrads at Pine Manor are people of color.   Pine Manor would be a candidate to replace Dean in the NECC when Dean heads to the GNAC.  The athletic department is very small and runs on a very frugal budget.  There needs to be some talks between the college president, th e athletic director, and the alumni about upgrading the bathroom and locker room facilities at Brunelli Court, but the basketball floor did get resurfaced eecently.  Since the athletic director at Pine Manor is also the Sports Info Director, some of the communications could use some work.

I attended the NYU men's basketball game at Pine Manor last night, and it was interesting watching the first half from the very small bleacher rows.  I had to watch the second half standing and not being in those bleachers.  There were about 50 to 75 fans present at the game.





Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 09, 2020, 01:24:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2020, 01:18:42 PM
Not to contradict Dave, but just because CNU was in the USA South previously doesn't mean they would be welcomed back. First off, conferences can always change bylaws, as we have been reminded in the past year, and even without a bylaw change, there's plenty of reason to think the USAC doesn't want CNU back.

Now, that having been said, the USAC has changed quite a bit since CNU left, and who knows who wants what among its membership. Never know.

Thanks Pat. There is no way USA South wants CNU back except as an occasional affiliate member for a sport or two. Technically CNU left for the CAC, but in reality we were about to get tossed out of the conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 06:19:56 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2020, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 18, 2019, 10:43:31 PM
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html

Interesting how detailed the story covered the issue. The ACAA model will only solve about a 3rd of the sponsored sports issue. If you look at the sports/teams in the ACAA, it doesn't cover all the bases. And a conference affiliation such as this only addresses the AQ situation. It doesn't resolve scheduling issues for some sports such as basketball once January rolls around.

I don't think the scheduling will be as significant considering how many schools are around the three remaining CAC schools - but their conference games would have to be isolated to February when finding a non-conference game will be impossible.

The problem with merging with the ACAA are two-fold (based on one another):
- The division is likely to require conferences to play a certain number of games during the regular season to be eligible as part of the AQ requirements. Giving an AQ out for just playing a conference tournament is something the division is not keen about what so ever.
- So if the top segment goes through, I cannot see an ACAA-CAC merged conference being able to get conference games during the season when it requires teams on the east coast and west coast to play one another - meaning travel.

While the ACAA seems like the CAC target, I am just not sure it can work out. There are six schools "available" (two are leaving next academic year for other conferences and the third already exists in a conference for basketball), but I just don't see how this works out for everyone. It very likely could depend on whether the division decides to put in the in-season conference play requirement (which I agree with, by the way).

I am interested to understand if D3 requires conferences to play regular season conference games as part of requirement for AQ?  I thought AQ was based on conference tournament winner?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 09:00:52 PM
The division requires a minimum of 7 programs per sport. There are no other requirements. A conference can decide how they hand out their AQs (see UAA). Conferences that have tournaments also have back-up plans should there need to be an AQ handed out and the tournament champ or the tournament isn't able to be finished.

The idea being discussed is to add one other item other than the minimum program number - in-season conference play. The reason is simple: the division isn't keen about the idea of giving out AQs (should the minimum of 7 programs exist and a conference be eligible for an AQ) to a conference that doesn't play one another except a tournament to hand out the AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 10:20:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 09:00:52 PM
The division requires a minimum of 7 programs per sport. There are no other requirements. A conference can decide how they hand out their AQs (see UAA). Conferences that have tournaments also have back-up plans should there need to be an AQ handed out and the tournament champ or the tournament isn't able to be finished.

The idea being discussed is to add one other item other than the minimum program number - in-season conference play. The reason is simple: the division isn't keen about the idea of giving out AQs (should the minimum of 7 programs exist and a conference be eligible for an AQ) to a conference that doesn't play one another except a tournament to hand out the AQ.
Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.  If division decides on additional in-season conference play requirement, then the additional rule would have to spell out specific number of in-season conference games played.  Maybe each member only have to play minimum 6 conference games?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 11:07:58 PM
I have been told the specific number of games has been suggested. A percentage really. Probably use the NESCAC model and say at least once against each opponent, or grandfather the NESCAC and have the number be higher. Not sure because I haven't had the chance to chat with anyone directly involved with those conversations.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on January 10, 2020, 02:25:51 AM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 10:20:57 PM

Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.
Maybe. By my counting, this fall the ACAA will have four co-ed schools and two women's colleges, assuming that no more schools jump to other conferences. Perhaps, the CAC should just invite the whole  ACAA to join the CAC. Would the CAC then be able to retain their automatic qualifier if they decide to "temporarily" waive round robin play?

FYI, in some sports, the USA South doesn't play a round-robin either. They play a round-robin (or double round-robin) with teams in their division and don't play the teams in the other division. So, there could be ways to work around any round-robin rule.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on January 10, 2020, 02:32:00 AM
By the way, the ACAA uses Massey Ratings to decide the rankings for their post season tournaments. It's referenced in this press release.
https://www.goacaa.org/general/2018-19/releases/20190205is7i19
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2020, 07:52:59 AM

I don't get the impression the CAC is looking for a short term solution.  Merging with the ACAA would be exactly that.  Maybe they need a stopgap to keep the AQs until they figure out the long term picture, but I don't think there's much use projecting possibilities multiple years into the future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 10, 2020, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2020, 07:52:59 AM

I don't get the impression the CAC is looking for a short term solution.  Merging with the ACAA would be exactly that.  Maybe they need a stopgap to keep the AQs until they figure out the long term picture, but I don't think there's much use projecting possibilities multiple years into the future.


agreed that it's short term solution but CNU has fewer options than MWU and Salisbury and 21-22 season coming up soon.  Got to guess that all 3 ADs are talking about doing something together, maybe an announcement this early spring??
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 10, 2020, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on January 10, 2020, 02:25:51 AM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 10:20:57 PM

Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.
Maybe. By my counting, this fall the ACAA will have four co-ed schools and two women's colleges, assuming that no more schools jump to other conferences. Perhaps, the CAC should just invite the whole  ACAA to join the CAC. Would the CAC then be able to retain their automatic qualifier if they decide to "temporarily" waive round robin play?

FYI, in some sports, the USA South doesn't play a round-robin either. They play a round-robin (or double round-robin) with teams in their division and don't play the teams in the other division. So, there could be ways to work around any round-robin rule.

If you have read anything I wrote, you will notice I said they could take the NESCAC model and just play everyone once.

But using the USA South as an example isn't good because the USA South is large (too big, honestly) and if they did anything that allowed teams to play everyone at least once while keeping divisions (meaning they have to play double-round-robin against their division or the standings would make no sense), they wouldn't really have any out-of-conference games to add to the mix ... or help with at-large selections.

You have to look at smaller conferences and what they do with conference schedules. Most have double-round-robins. The NESCAC is the only one that has a single run through (though you have the Little Three and the Maine Three which play each other a second time as "out of conference.") You also have the ODAC who does a rotational double/single round setup, but that can't work for a 7/8 member conference.

My point was this: I have heard talk that mandating a double-round-robin has been suggested. The only way that works is if they grandfather the NESCAC (forcing them to a double-round isn't fair, though the NESCAC might end up there on their own eventually). The other I've heard is a certain percentage of their total games has to be conference games (that might be hard to truly "math out"). And my suggestion is they may mandate a single round at the very least (i.e. NESCAC style).

The basic premise with the idea is this: The division is leery about handing out AQs to conferences that came together with only the purpose of getting an AQ and NO purpose of actually playing one another outside of a tournament (that not everyone is even invited to). This actually started with the old GSAC as it was falling apart. They wouldn't play one another until the conference tournament - and we got a couple years of AQs handed out that way. The only reason it didn't cause a bigger reaction was the GSAC was an established conference that used to exist as a "normal" conference that played each other during the regular season. It quickly folded after going to the tournament-only style, but the ACAA came along a few years ago and the division started to raise flags.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 14, 2020, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 10, 2020, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on January 10, 2020, 02:25:51 AM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 10:20:57 PM

Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.
Maybe. By my counting, this fall the ACAA will have four co-ed schools and two women's colleges, assuming that no more schools jump to other conferences. Perhaps, the CAC should just invite the whole  ACAA to join the CAC. Would the CAC then be able to retain their automatic qualifier if they decide to "temporarily" waive round robin play?

FYI, in some sports, the USA South doesn't play a round-robin either. They play a round-robin (or double round-robin) with teams in their division and don't play the teams in the other division. So, there could be ways to work around any round-robin rule.

If you have read anything I wrote, you will notice I said they could take the NESCAC model and just play everyone once.

But using the USA South as an example isn't good because the USA South is large (too big, honestly) and if they did anything that allowed teams to play everyone at least once while keeping divisions (meaning they have to play double-round-robin against their division or the standings would make no sense), they wouldn't really have any out-of-conference games to add to the mix ... or help with at-large selections.

You have to look at smaller conferences and what they do with conference schedules. Most have double-round-robins. The NESCAC is the only one that has a single run through (though you have the Little Three and the Maine Three which play each other a second time as "out of conference.") You also have the ODAC who does a rotational double/single round setup, but that can't work for a 7/8 member conference.

My point was this: I have heard talk that mandating a double-round-robin has been suggested. The only way that works is if they grandfather the NESCAC (forcing them to a double-round isn't fair, though the NESCAC might end up there on their own eventually). The other I've heard is a certain percentage of their total games has to be conference games (that might be hard to truly "math out"). And my suggestion is they may mandate a single round at the very least (i.e. NESCAC style).

The basic premise with the idea is this: The division is leery about handing out AQs to conferences that came together with only the purpose of getting an AQ and NO purpose of actually playing one another outside of a tournament (that not everyone is even invited to). This actually started with the old GSAC as it was falling apart. They wouldn't play one another until the conference tournament - and we got a couple years of AQs handed out that way. The only reason it didn't cause a bigger reaction was the GSAC was an established conference that used to exist as a "normal" conference that played each other during the regular season. It quickly folded after going to the tournament-only style, but the ACAA came along a few years ago and the division started to raise flags.

Understandable to be leery on AQs for conferences without any regular season play.  But there are some schools that find it hard to get conference suitors within 500 miles of their campus due to politics or other factors.  In Mid-Atlantic region, there are plenty of D3 schools but CNU is finding it difficult to find one (within 500 miles) conference to join/be invited.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 14, 2020, 03:58:40 PM
I fully understand the geographical and other challenges. For many of us, we have understood the DIII landscape for 20, 25, or more years.

Yes. CNU has found themselves in a bit of a pickle that, bluntly, they, Salisbury, and others have helped create. They have made a conscious decision, which I certainly do not have a problem with, of making athletics a larger financial commitment than many of their peers. As a result, they started to find themselves less welcome in the USA South and eventually less welcome in the CAC to the point of being out on their own with two other institutions.

This isn't new to Division III.

St. Thomas, for similar reasons, has found itself out of the MIAC (though, to some degree those in that conference seem to be ignoring the others who have made the same financial decisions as UST). Stevenson in the MAC (former CAC member) is also one of those who has made significant financial decisions to stand out from the rest (though, needing a reliable football home was also a significant reason Stevenson left the CAC and won't return). And there are others we can point to throughout Division III.

The key is, while those decisions are made, relationships still have to be nurtured and massaged within conferences ... or one finds themselves suddenly without dance partners. Also, being state schools doesn't help. The CAC was the only dual-member conference, for the most part, in the region that those schools fit in (NEAC is just not a viable option for CNU, Salisbury, etc.; USA South has already indicated they are not interested). However, the CAC started to unravel when CUA and Goucher decided (for reasons I never felt legit) they couldn't compete and felt it was unfair to be in a conference with state schools (cop out). That was the first thread that just kept getting pulled ... no thanks, IMO, to conference commissioners who also couldn't seem to smooth things over with presidents and ADs who either didn't get it ... or wanted to leave their 'mark' as it where.

Personally, I think it is a cop-out when institutions leave for 'easier' conferences because they won't make the same commitments to athletics as others, but I respect that decision more than the one made in the MIAC of threatening to leave and then forcing out a school because institutions don't want to make the same commitments. That last example is just petty and stupid. At least schools in the Mid-Atlantic have freely admitted it isn't for them and gone elsewhere instead of trying to back-stab one of their own.

That all said ... why should a conference be given an AQ if they are going to make NO effort to live up to anything conferences normally do other than play a small, not-even fully invited tournament? That is what Pool B is designated for. Schools and conferences that don't have enough for an AQ or access to one. They all get to sit in Pool B and get the very first at-large bid(s) to the NCAA tournament. That's before all those who had access to AQs are even considered.

So essentially, CNU, Salisbury, Mary Washington have access to a bid to the NCAA tournament just as if it was an AQ. I rarely say this about other conferences, but the CAC is going to be fine with that structure PLUS they may still get at-large selections through the Pool C process after one of the three is selected in Pool B. The only problem will be scheduling and that I can appreciate will be challenging in the last 1/4 to 1/3 of sport seasons (for the most part). But access to the tournament isn't going to be a huge a deal as many may realize for the remaining CAC members whether they are part of the ACAA or not - they are getting in the tournaments with their best team(s).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2020, 09:43:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 14, 2020, 03:58:40 PMPersonally, I think it is a cop-out when institutions leave for 'easier' conferences because they won't make the same commitments to athletics as others, but I respect that decision more than the one made in the MIAC of threatening to leave and then forcing out a school because institutions don't want to make the same commitments. That last example is just petty and stupid. At least schools in the Mid-Atlantic have freely admitted it isn't for them and gone elsewhere instead of trying to back-stab one of their own.

As you know, there's more to it than that, Dave. The MIAC didn't jettison UST simply because "institutions don't want to make the same commitments." UST as an institution has morphed into something that doesn't resemble the other schools in the MIAC anymore; it's now a mid-sized regional university rather than a small liberal arts college, which means that in a sense the MIAC is following in the footsteps of those eastern leagues that don't want CNU or Salisbury because they have a different institutional model (in their case, one of institutional ownership and cost rather than institutional size and function). It's not a coincidence that the first thing bruited about by UST types upon the announcement of #Tomtoss was a jump to D1; indeed, there has been low-key speculation about such a jump going on for several years now in the Land of 10,000 Lakes. There's a certain logic to it, because UST's closest peers in an institutional sense are now the likes of Creighton, Loyola (IL), DePaul, and Marquette rather than St. Mary's (MN) or SJU/CSB.

The upshot of the matter is that institutional similarity tends to be as important, if not more, in the eyes of school presidents as athletic competitiveness when it comes to conference membership issues. I'm not saying at all that I agree with the actions taken by the MIAC's other institutions to oust UST. Personally, I think that there's a lot to dislike about the way that they handled it. I'm just saying that there's more to the issue than what you posted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2020, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2020, 09:43:01 PM
As you know, there's more to it than that, Dave. The MIAC didn't jettison UST simply because "institutions don't want to make the same commitments." UST as an institution has morphed into something that doesn't resemble the other schools in the MIAC anymore; it's now a mid-sized regional university rather than a small liberal arts college.

St. Thomas has been this size for decades, though. This is nothing new.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2020, 11:14:55 PM
Yep. And the undercurrent of discontent about that was there for a long time as well. The fact that it took the MIAC so long to act upon it doesn't invalidate the argument. Again, though, I'm not taking the side of the other MIAC schools. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here by pointing out that there's more to the issue than what Dave said.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2020, 11:55:45 AM
Having lived up there - jealousy is part of it. St. Thomas raises a lot of money and has a lot of marketing in the Twin Cities, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2020, 11:14:55 PM
Yep. And the undercurrent of discontent about that was there for a long time as well. The fact that it took the MIAC so long to act upon it doesn't invalidate the argument. Again, though, I'm not taking the side of the other MIAC schools. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here by pointing out that there's more to the issue than what Dave said.

While there is a lot more to it... some of what is being claimed is also BS (some of what Pat has pointed out) and some of what is irrelevant. I was trying to boil it down to the basics.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 15, 2020, 02:29:03 PM
The fun part is that all of this is interesting. Over the course of the next several months, and most likely years, things will change. I'm looking forward to seeing how the folks who make decisions try to figure this out. I find that fascinating.....making decisions based on the best available facts at the time, then making more changes.

Let's see how this pans out!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2020, 11:14:55 PM
Yep. And the undercurrent of discontent about that was there for a long time as well. The fact that it took the MIAC so long to act upon it doesn't invalidate the argument. Again, though, I'm not taking the side of the other MIAC schools. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here by pointing out that there's more to the issue than what Dave said.

While there is a lot more to it... some of what is being claimed is also BS (some of what Pat has pointed out) and some of what is irrelevant. I was trying to boil it down to the basics.

There's more to the basics than an unwillingness to keep up with UST's spending on athletics facilities, though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2020, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2020, 11:14:55 PM
Yep. And the undercurrent of discontent about that was there for a long time as well. The fact that it took the MIAC so long to act upon it doesn't invalidate the argument. Again, though, I'm not taking the side of the other MIAC schools. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here by pointing out that there's more to the issue than what Dave said.

While there is a lot more to it... some of what is being claimed is also BS (some of what Pat has pointed out) and some of what is irrelevant. I was trying to boil it down to the basics.

There's more to the basics than an unwillingness to keep up with UST's spending on athletics facilities, though.

Maybe ... in my work behind the scenes I've found many of the "reasons" to not end up standing up to scrutiny. Thus why I also pointed out why they seem to ignore other schools spending. It is complex, but much of it is smoke and mirrors to a simple thing: success. That success is based on spending as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2020, 04:20:54 PM
It is based upon spending, to some degree. And it's certainly based upon demonstrated success, too, given how lopsidedly UST has dominated the circuit over the past decade and a half in the league's all-sports standings. But school size does enter into it as well, in particular with regard to admissions.

The marketing of an institution of higher learning to prospective students these days is thoroughly tied to test scores and class rank. In the dog-eat-dog environment of modern higher education, admissions departments of schools that have any aspirations whatsoever to be perceived as "good schools" (i.e., possessing academic cachet) are very zealous to tout the statistics of their admitted freshmen, and very protective about keeping the test-score and class-rank averages of those admitted freshmen as high as possible. The schools of the MIAC, including UST, are no different.

Thus, admissions departments tend to be very sparing in terms of allowing special admits whose grades and/or test scores fall below what the department has calculated to be the acceptable mathematical threshold for maintaining those incoming-freshman averages. So the athletic department is only going to be allowed a very limited allotment of those special admits. But, since the special admits are deemed so by how they measure against the school's average, a larger school can bring in a larger number of special admits without adversely affecting the school's average than can a smaller school. In UST's case, since the school is two to three times the size of its fellow MIAC members, the athletic department can bring in two to three times the number of special admits of its MIAC rivals without hurting UST's average high-school test scores and class ranks. That gives the various Tommies teams a decided recruiting advantage within the MIAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2020, 04:41:56 PM
Right, and for that to be a problem, there either has to be proof or just a healthy (unhealthy?) amount of assumption on a competitor's part.

I'd say, instead, "a decided potential recruiting advantage." 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2020, 05:49:52 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2020, 12:56:40 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2020, 04:20:54 PM

The marketing of an institution of higher learning to prospective students these days is thoroughly tied to test scores and class rank. In the dog-eat-dog environment of modern higher education, admissions departments of schools that have any aspirations whatsoever to be perceived as "good schools" (i.e., possessing academic cachet) are very zealous to tout the statistics of their admitted freshmen, and very protective about keeping the test-score and class-rank averages of those admitted freshmen as hih as possible. The schools of the MIAC, including UST, are no different.


Not necessarily. It depends on the institution, the mission, and the programs an institution offers. Even those who are aspirational to be a 'good' school many times market themselves in other ways than test scores and class rank. Many schools are now eschewing test scores. Class rank isn't necessarily correlated to success in college.

With many colleges now scrambling for students, trying to keep a sensible discount rate, and seeing state funding wither in many areas, marketing your niches is more important than marketing your elitism.

St. Thomas saw a great amount of $$ flowing in from donors. Their endowment is over $500 million now. Other MIAC schools have high endowments as well (Carleton, Macalester, St. Olaf). But there are a lot of have-nots (Hamline and Augsburg are under $100 million with Augsburg under $50 million). There's a big gap from even Gustavus ($161 million) to those schools. Those are the kinds of colleges that are going to have to get creative soon to keep $$ flowing in - either in fundraising or getting tuition dollars.

I remember I was consulting at a small college about 10 years ago when the final admission numbers were announced, and were about 100 students short of projection. My contract was terminated shortly thereafter since they needed to pinch pennies.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
I've found endowments to give me completely different information than reality. In the Centennial, one of the highest endowments is Johns Hopkins ... no surprise. The other is Bryn Mawr. You can look at why that raises my eyebrows all the time. One of the lowest tends to be pretty competitive in the conference (I had to dive into the numbers for comparison reasons a few years ago).

I do think endowment money is helpful to some degree. As many have pointed out to me or others ... sometimes that endowment money is restricted on what it can be spent on. Other times the school chooses not to use it or not to use it for athletic-based efforts. There are a hundred reasons why endowment levels don't always lead to athletic (or other) success.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
For me, endowments mean that they can more easily attract students. Many times, endowment is geared toward scholarships (except maybe someplace like Hopkins or Carnegie Mellon which has a lot of research-based endowment).

So Carelton, if they wanted to, could get athletes by waving scholarship money at them. They don't choose to do that. But Hamline and Augsburg need to be more judicious.

There's a lot of interlocking issues involved.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 19, 2020, 07:00:09 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 14, 2020, 03:58:40 PM
I fully understand the geographical and other challenges. For many of us, we have understood the DIII landscape for 20, 25, or more years.

Yes. CNU has found themselves in a bit of a pickle that, bluntly, they, Salisbury, and others have helped create. They have made a conscious decision, which I certainly do not have a problem with, of making athletics a larger financial commitment than many of their peers. As a result, they started to find themselves less welcome in the USA South and eventually less welcome in the CAC to the point of being out on their own with two other institutions.

This isn't new to Division III.

St. Thomas, for similar reasons, has found itself out of the MIAC (though, to some degree those in that conference seem to be ignoring the others who have made the same financial decisions as UST). Stevenson in the MAC (former CAC member) is also one of those who has made significant financial decisions to stand out from the rest (though, needing a reliable football home was also a significant reason Stevenson left the CAC and won't return). And there are others we can point to throughout Division III.

The key is, while those decisions are made, relationships still have to be nurtured and massaged within conferences ... or one finds themselves suddenly without dance partners. Also, being state schools doesn't help. The CAC was the only dual-member conference, for the most part, in the region that those schools fit in (NEAC is just not a viable option for CNU, Salisbury, etc.; USA South has already indicated they are not interested). However, the CAC started to unravel when CUA and Goucher decided (for reasons I never felt legit) they couldn't compete and felt it was unfair to be in a conference with state schools (cop out). That was the first thread that just kept getting pulled ... no thanks, IMO, to conference commissioners who also couldn't seem to smooth things over with presidents and ADs who either didn't get it ... or wanted to leave their 'mark' as it where.

Personally, I think it is a cop-out when institutions leave for 'easier' conferences because they won't make the same commitments to athletics as others, but I respect that decision more than the one made in the MIAC of threatening to leave and then forcing out a school because institutions don't want to make the same commitments. That last example is just petty and stupid. At least schools in the Mid-Atlantic have freely admitted it isn't for them and gone elsewhere instead of trying to back-stab one of their own.

That all said ... why should a conference be given an AQ if they are going to make NO effort to live up to anything conferences normally do other than play a small, not-even fully invited tournament? That is what Pool B is designated for. Schools and conferences that don't have enough for an AQ or access to one. They all get to sit in Pool B and get the very first at-large bid(s) to the NCAA tournament. That's before all those who had access to AQs are even considered.

So essentially, CNU, Salisbury, Mary Washington have access to a bid to the NCAA tournament just as if it was an AQ. I rarely say this about other conferences, but the CAC is going to be fine with that structure PLUS they may still get at-large selections through the Pool C process after one of the three is selected in Pool B. The only problem will be scheduling and that I can appreciate will be challenging in the last 1/4 to 1/3 of sport seasons (for the most part). But access to the tournament isn't going to be a huge a deal as many may realize for the remaining CAC members whether they are part of the ACAA or not - they are getting in the tournaments with their best team(s).

yes, CNU, Salisbury, etc have put significant $$ to invest in athletics that many other d3 (especially smaller than 2000 enrollment) schools have not.  I think this is a direct result of financial pinch many Higher Education institutions are feeling.  In sports, this not only made them less welcome in conferences but also harder for coaches to schedule games.  This year alone, CNU WBB has only 8 home games out of 25 games.  And this includes 5 mandatory home conference games.  Teams in CNU region do not want to play them and I think this is a consequence of putting more $$$ into athletics.  I think placing more $$$ into athletics had a big hand into many of these CAC schools leaving the conferences these past few years.
I understand about Pool B & C process to get into 64 but some of these coaches jobs are on the line with W/L records as well as tournament appearances.  Right now, the thought would be goal #1, win conference tourney; get AQ, keep job.  secondary goal #2, lose conference tourney but win lots of the right games (good teams) and get Pool C bid, keep job.  Without AQ, I think it is much harder to get into dance via B and C.  And seeing really good teams in the past left out of 64 from pool C by committee makes coaches and ADs nervous.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 19, 2020, 02:37:58 PM
Curious ... you do understand that Pool B for the CAC is essentially an AQ, right? No, it isn't necessarily going to go to the conference tournament winner .. but it is one of the easiest ways into the NCAA tournament to be honest. The CAC will own the Pool B essentially.

As for CNU women ... of their out of conference schedule, I see a number of games against teams I would consider in their region.
- TCNJ
- Messiah
- NC Wesleyan
- Washington & Lee
- Bridgewater
- William Peace
- Meredith
- Stevenson
- Randolph-Macon
- Virginia Wesleyan

And they had some just outside what I would call their region ... Stevens and Susquehanna (at St. Mary's).

I don't think you can saddle their home schedule on teams not wanting to play them ... because their schedule clearly shows a number of teams not affraid to play them. Even welcoming them to tournaments. It just happens they had a number of games on the road. That could flip next year especially with home and home deals (six of their non-conference schedule they played last year - most of them at home, actually).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2020, 06:40:51 PM

CNU women chose to go to a lot of tournaments this year.  The CNU men hosted a bunch of them.  It is what it is.

Pool B is fine so long as we still have enough teams to have a Pool B bid.  That won't continue forever - and probably not much longer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 20, 2020, 11:56:58 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
I've found endowments to give me completely different information than reality. In the Centennial, one of the highest endowments is Johns Hopkins ... no surprise. The other is Bryn Mawr. You can look at why that raises my eyebrows all the time. One of the lowest tends to be pretty competitive in the conference (I had to dive into the numbers for comparison reasons a few years ago).

I do think endowment money is helpful to some degree. As many have pointed out to me or others ... sometimes that endowment money is restricted on what it can be spent on. Other times the school chooses not to use it or not to use it for athletic-based efforts. There are a hundred reasons why endowment levels don't always lead to athletic (or other) success.

Agreed with your thoughts on endowments.

I find it very interesting to learn about all the different institutions and issues they face and especially find the theories for athletic success to be mind opening. Every school/team has their story. For CNU I often am baffled how we don't fit any standard model. In recent years we have been ranked as high as 14th in the Learfield Director's Cup. We slipped a lot last year. We adhere to high academic standards (3rd in State schools for AVG SAT scores for incoming Freshmen behind only William & Mary and UVA). Our endowment is extremely low, currently sitting at $34 million. However, just a few years ago it was below $10 million. The Commonwealth of Va provides a smaller percentage, year on year, of operating costs for all State schools. CNU receives less than 25% of its operating budget from the Commonwealth. (I believe UVA receives around 5% - they might as well be a private school). Tuition/room & Board is high for public schools in the state at around $25k per year, but low when compared to Private schools (i.e ODAC). However, CNU manages to have one of the highest Athletic Dept budgets in all of D3. I've seen statistics that show CNU as high as 2nd and have heard there have been years where we had the highest budget in NCAA DIII. The other schools in the top 20-25 in the Directors Cup have huge endowments!

Anyway, Just thought I'd share the CNU story for those who may be interested.

I've heard talk that the better solution for the current CNU/CAC situation is for CNU to move to D2 or D1. I don't see that happening. 

(Disclaimer - there is more to the story than I can allude to on here. I have pushed the envelope a little already. Among the numerous areas of CNU in which I am involved, I am a Trustee on the Education Foundation which oversees the Endowment and I am on the Athletic Advisory Council)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
I've been told that CNU to DII and DI is NOT what they want to do. That they don't think that is a reasonable solution. Right now, the DI option isn't even there as a road ... but we wait to find out more about UST's possible jump (the final decision now may not come until April). But D1 would not allow CNU to be unique in their area. There are a lot of D1s and I think one thing that makes CNU attractive to student-athletes is that it isn't DI. They join DI (or even DII, which is no-man's land in that area) and suddenly they are just like all the rest of the DIs in their area ... they don't stand out and they aren't another option for student-athletes. I think that ends up hurting CNU more than it would help.

Same goes for Salisbury - who may benefit from a possible (likely?) closure of Wesley.

I have heard that "talk" from a lot of people who don't understand the ramifications, challenges, financial impact, let alone geography and landscape. and such of a move to DII and DI.

We will learn more at the end of this week most likely.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 20, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
We agree again. For many reasons in which I will not go into here, CNU will not go D1.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 20, 2020, 01:45:22 PM
and yes...hopefully some things get sorted in Anaheim this week! Although I suspect some things will be even more confusing after this week!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on January 20, 2020, 01:45:22 PM
and yes...hopefully some things get sorted in Anaheim this week! Although I suspect some things will be even more confusing after this week!

Oh ... my money is absolutely in the corner of "more confusing" or "that didn't help anyone solve anything" category for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on January 20, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
I've found endowments to give me completely different information than reality. In the Centennial, one of the highest endowments is Johns Hopkins ... no surprise. The other is Bryn Mawr. You can look at why that raises my eyebrows all the time.

If you look at the endowment and then look first at their alumni and then second whether or not they have a medical school, the information will almost always give you a good sense of the financial wherewithal of the institution as far as scholarships are concerned.

As far as the big research institutions are concerned, big endowments do not guarantee big pockets with which to award scholarships or fund an athletic department.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 01:59:55 PM
I wasn't indicating that I wasn't surprised by the endowment with Johns Hopkins because of their athletic success ... I wasn't surprised because it is Johns Hopkins. Like I'm not surprised Harvard has an insane endowment.

My surprise came with Bryn Mawr on MANY levels, not just athletics. However, it opened up the thought: if the endowment is that large, why don't they use it better to help athletics in many different ways.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on January 20, 2020, 02:44:38 PM
Understood and hence the part about alumni.

It is interesting that athletics is no where to be found at www.brynmawr.edu.

The way an institution profiles athletics on their public website says a lot about their overall commitment to athletics.

www.wellesley.edu has athletics prominently at the top as does www.mtholyoke.edu and www.vassar.edu though the latter is exceptional for the fact they enroll men.  You can find athletics at www.smith.edu even if you have to scroll down.

Barnard does not have athletics listed at www.barnard.edu but they are an exception given their relationship with Columbia University.  The same is true for Radcliffe College.

Agnes Scott and Sweet Briar and so many other historically women's college also have athletics prominently featured.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2020, 03:39:50 PM
In their defense, it's only two clicks from Bryn Mawr's dot edu site to athletics (student life, athletics) - they would probably be a lot more competitive in the CSAC and maybe slightly/somewhat competitive in the AEC, but the Cent is not the place to treat athletics like it's nothing more than organized exercise. However, those are the schools that Bryn Mawr wants to associate with - they remind me of Bard in the Liberty League in that regard.

Always interesting to me that many people still think of Vassar as a women's college despite the fact they started admitting men the same time Neal Armstrong walked on the moon.

Speaking of the Atlantic East, I imagine their auto-bid status (when they achieve it) will be immediately threatened if/when Wesley goes under. I wonder if any of their other members are on similarly shaky ground from an institutional standpoint.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2020, 03:39:50 PM
In their defense, it's only two clicks from Bryn Mawr's dot edu site to athletics (student life, athletics) - they would probably be a lot more competitive in the CSAC and maybe slightly/somewhat competitive in the AEC, but the Cent is not the place to treat athletics like it's nothing more than organized exercise. However, those are the schools that Bryn Mawr wants to associate with - they remind me of Bard in the Liberty League in that regard.

Always interesting to me that many people still think of Vassar as a women's college despite the fact they started admitting men the same time Neal Armstrong walked on the moon.

Speaking of the Atlantic East, I imagine their auto-bid status (when they achieve it) will be immediately threatened if/when Wesley goes under. I wonder if any of their other members are on similarly shaky ground from an institutional standpoint.

Well to be fair about the Centennial and Byrn Mawr, their dance partners have been Swarthmore and Haverford from day one ... and those last two haven't been that competitive historically in the conference until the last few years. Coincidentally (or ironically), Bryn Mawr's biggest struggles in the conference and internally with athletics have come at the same time as Haverford and Swarthmore have changed their approach to athletics.

I've said for years that Bryn Mawr should be in a different conference. I have not looked at the CSAC and AEC, though they would be a good fit. My theory is more of an east coast all-women's conference - ala the old GSAC. Not all schools would be interested. Wellesley seems pretty comfortable in the NEWMAC for example. But Trinity DC, Notre Dame (which is in the CSAC), Hollins, and others from Atlanta to the northeast could put together one conference ... and then I would promote the hell out of that thing. "Look, the only all-women's conference in the country; where a strong single-sex education is balanced with competitive athletic success." I think the pressure would be removed from some institutions like Bryn Mawr in their current conference structure. Trinity could find a home to help with their pressures. It would also help conferences with unbalanced schedules that cause headaches (Centennial still hasn't solved what I think is a schedule disaster with their approach to Bryn Mawr).

I do realize I may be a minority of one with that all-women's idea ... but I think it checks off so many boxes while also giving these programs a legitimate chance at NCAA tournament berths which is something they could use as a recruiting tool, alumnae engagement, and promotion.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on January 20, 2020, 04:15:02 PM
I like that idea of an all-women's athletic conference.  I have to think this idea gets floated among potential members from time to time.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2020, 04:18:18 PM
Agnes Scott
Bryn Mawr
Cedar Crest
Hollins
Meredith
Notre Dame (Md.)
Salem
Sweet Briar
Trinity (DC)
Wesleyan (Ga.)

yeah, that seems like it would work, Dave, good thinking
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 20, 2020, 10:51:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 19, 2020, 02:37:58 PM
Curious ... you do understand that Pool B for the CAC is essentially an AQ, right? No, it isn't necessarily going to go to the conference tournament winner .. but it is one of the easiest ways into the NCAA tournament to be honest. The CAC will own the Pool B essentially.

As for CNU women ... of their out of conference schedule, I see a number of games against teams I would consider in their region.
- TCNJ
- Messiah
- NC Wesleyan
- Washington & Lee
- Bridgewater
- William Peace
- Meredith
- Stevenson
- Randolph-Macon
- Virginia Wesleyan

And they had some just outside what I would call their region ... Stevens and Susquehanna (at St. Mary's).

I don't think you can saddle their home schedule on teams not wanting to play them ... because their schedule clearly shows a number of teams not affraid to play them. Even welcoming them to tournaments. It just happens they had a number of games on the road. That could flip next year especially with home and home deals (six of their non-conference schedule they played last year - most of them at home, actually).

agree that the last 3 CAC teams left in '22 would be strong contenders for pool B bid.

I meant that teams do not want to play AT CNU.  The additional 2 tourneys they played this year compared to last year helps teams avoid home and home deals.  CNU played at Bridgewater last year and this year again (at their tourney).  The St Mary's tourney really baffles me.  went to a current CAC member tourney to play 2 different teams (Susquehanna could have been home and home deal).  Later CNU will go back to play at St Mary's.  Think CNU had to schedule these additional tourneys because coach had hard time getting more than 2 teams to do home and home deals (Randolph-Macon and Meredith).   2 of the tourneys were at Stevens & at Bridgewater avoids committment to future playing AT CNU.  tourney at Messiah I would consider a home and home deal.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
But you are taking one year and saying "no one wants to play at CNU."

First off, Ryan pointed out the men had a few tournaments, so there could have been some logistical problems for the women getting the home dates they wanted,.

Secondly, if this holds true next year then maybe you have something to consider. However, this is one year. There could have been a lot of factors in play as to why they didn't get as many home games as you (or they) wanted. I've seen teams have a lot of away games because scheduling can sometimes just be quirky. I also have seen teams that need games having to play the games on the road that first go-around because the opponent they want to play controls the terms. Not that uncommon.

You do realize the CAC had less members this year and that meant more non-conference games than in years past, right? Frostburg and PSU-Harrisburg left ahead of this season ... that is FOUR more games in the non-conference.

The SMC tournament makes sense to me ... both CAC teams need a few more games and the coaches know one another. They probably decided (a) they could do a tournament there and both teams get two more games with ease or (b) SMC needed another opponent and knew that CNU needed games and invited them to help each other out.

I've been pretty involved in scheduling tournament and been in the offices when coaches are trying to figure out scheduling (not to mention talking to coaches a lot of about scheduling on air, off air, and sitting at a bar even) ... I don't think we can just start making assumptions no one wants to play at CNU suddenly.

Furthermore, why would no one want to play at CNU as opposed to playing CNU in the first place. The argument you jumped off of was that no one wants to play CNU and are seemingly trying to twist it to no one wants to play AT CNU. Why in the world would that suddenly be an issue? If no one wanted to play AT CNU, wouldn't that have popped up a lot sooner than this season? How the athletic department spends money and such doesn't suddenly make CNU a location no one wants to play at. And CNU has been pretty good for awhile now, so it isn't like suddenly no one wants to play CNU ... but they are playing CNU, so that doesn't hold water, either.

I think this is a bit of grasping at straws without a lot of actual facts. Let's see how things play out past this one season before we start making any assumptions about scheduling ... especially not wanting to play AT some place.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2020, 12:24:27 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2020, 04:18:18 PM
Agnes Scott
Bryn Mawr
Cedar Crest
Hollins
Meredith
Notre Dame (Md.)
Salem
Sweet Briar
Trinity (DC)
Wesleyan (Ga.)

yeah, that seems like it would work, Dave, good thinking
+1! Dave and Caz.

Beyond the top 10-15 conferences in D-3 who look "nationally" to assess performance, the emphasis in most conferences and schools is the competition in the conference.

... and you have travel partners too.  ( I assume that Agnes Scott and Wesleyan have alumnae all up and down the Atlantic.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 21, 2020, 01:44:07 AM
There used to be the Atlantic Women's Colleges Conference (1995–2007), but only two of its members – Notre Dame and Trinity – haven't gone co-ed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 11:46:04 AM

The problem for CNU is not people not wanting to play there - they are excellent hosts with a stellar reputation.  The problem is more that geographically compatible teams don't want to compete with CNU for automatic bids.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 21, 2020, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
But you are taking one year and saying "no one wants to play at CNU."

First off, Ryan pointed out the men had a few tournaments, so there could have been some logistical problems for the women getting the home dates they wanted,.

Secondly, if this holds true next year then maybe you have something to consider. However, this is one year. There could have been a lot of factors in play as to why they didn't get as many home games as you (or they) wanted. I've seen teams have a lot of away games because scheduling can sometimes just be quirky. I also have seen teams that need games having to play the games on the road that first go-around because the opponent they want to play controls the terms. Not that uncommon.

You do realize the CAC had less members this year and that meant more non-conference games than in years past, right? Frostburg and PSU-Harrisburg left ahead of this season ... that is FOUR more games in the non-conference.

The SMC tournament makes sense to me ... both CAC teams need a few more games and the coaches know one another. They probably decided (a) they could do a tournament there and both teams get two more games with ease or (b) SMC needed another opponent and knew that CNU needed games and invited them to help each other out.

I've been pretty involved in scheduling tournament and been in the offices when coaches are trying to figure out scheduling (not to mention talking to coaches a lot of about scheduling on air, off air, and sitting at a bar even) ... I don't think we can just start making assumptions no one wants to play at CNU suddenly.

Furthermore, why would no one want to play at CNU as opposed to playing CNU in the first place. The argument you jumped off of was that no one wants to play CNU and are seemingly trying to twist it to no one wants to play AT CNU. Why in the world would that suddenly be an issue? If no one wanted to play AT CNU, wouldn't that have popped up a lot sooner than this season? How the athletic department spends money and such doesn't suddenly make CNU a location no one wants to play at. And CNU has been pretty good for awhile now, so it isn't like suddenly no one wants to play CNU ... but they are playing CNU, so that doesn't hold water, either.

I think this is a bit of grasping at straws without a lot of actual facts. Let's see how things play out past this one season before we start making any assumptions about scheduling ... especially not wanting to play AT some place.

the biggest roadblock to home games is probably the 3 men's tourneys at cnu.  depending on year, men usually have 1 or 2 cnu tourneys.  All of the conference games were end of season loaded, so no real chance to get non-conference game after Christmas break like most conferences in region.  guess cnu AD should be fine with women's travel budget increase with extra proceeds from men's tourneys.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 21, 2020, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
But you are taking one year and saying "no one wants to play at CNU."

First off, Ryan pointed out the men had a few tournaments, so there could have been some logistical problems for the women getting the home dates they wanted,.

Secondly, if this holds true next year then maybe you have something to consider. However, this is one year. There could have been a lot of factors in play as to why they didn't get as many home games as you (or they) wanted. I've seen teams have a lot of away games because scheduling can sometimes just be quirky. I also have seen teams that need games having to play the games on the road that first go-around because the opponent they want to play controls the terms. Not that uncommon.

You do realize the CAC had less members this year and that meant more non-conference games than in years past, right? Frostburg and PSU-Harrisburg left ahead of this season ... that is FOUR more games in the non-conference.

The SMC tournament makes sense to me ... both CAC teams need a few more games and the coaches know one another. They probably decided (a) they could do a tournament there and both teams get two more games with ease or (b) SMC needed another opponent and knew that CNU needed games and invited them to help each other out.

I've been pretty involved in scheduling tournament and been in the offices when coaches are trying to figure out scheduling (not to mention talking to coaches a lot of about scheduling on air, off air, and sitting at a bar even) ... I don't think we can just start making assumptions no one wants to play at CNU suddenly.

Furthermore, why would no one want to play at CNU as opposed to playing CNU in the first place. The argument you jumped off of was that no one wants to play CNU and are seemingly trying to twist it to no one wants to play AT CNU. Why in the world would that suddenly be an issue? If no one wanted to play AT CNU, wouldn't that have popped up a lot sooner than this season? How the athletic department spends money and such doesn't suddenly make CNU a location no one wants to play at. And CNU has been pretty good for awhile now, so it isn't like suddenly no one wants to play CNU ... but they are playing CNU, so that doesn't hold water, either.

I think this is a bit of grasping at straws without a lot of actual facts. Let's see how things play out past this one season before we start making any assumptions about scheduling ... especially not wanting to play AT some place.

the biggest roadblock to home games is probably the 3 men's tourneys at cnu.  depending on year, men usually have 1 or 2 cnu tourneys.  All of the conference games were end of season loaded, so no real chance to get non-conference game after Christmas break like most conferences in region.  guess cnu AD should be fine with women's travel budget increase with extra proceeds from men's tourneys.

I asked John Krikorian about this specifically at the beginning of the year.  He said the women's team had every opportunity for home games - it wasn't an either/or situation.  Broderick decided on the away tourneys route this year - I've not specifically asked him about the rationale on that, but I'm sure he has one.  Krikorian did say they're looking at doing some of those annual tournaments as men's and women's combined events with eight teams in the building for a weekend.  They certainly have the facilities and support to do it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 22, 2020, 10:32:38 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 21, 2020, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
But you are taking one year and saying "no one wants to play at CNU."

First off, Ryan pointed out the men had a few tournaments, so there could have been some logistical problems for the women getting the home dates they wanted,.

Secondly, if this holds true next year then maybe you have something to consider. However, this is one year. There could have been a lot of factors in play as to why they didn't get as many home games as you (or they) wanted. I've seen teams have a lot of away games because scheduling can sometimes just be quirky. I also have seen teams that need games having to play the games on the road that first go-around because the opponent they want to play controls the terms. Not that uncommon.

You do realize the CAC had less members this year and that meant more non-conference games than in years past, right? Frostburg and PSU-Harrisburg left ahead of this season ... that is FOUR more games in the non-conference.

The SMC tournament makes sense to me ... both CAC teams need a few more games and the coaches know one another. They probably decided (a) they could do a tournament there and both teams get two more games with ease or (b) SMC needed another opponent and knew that CNU needed games and invited them to help each other out.

I've been pretty involved in scheduling tournament and been in the offices when coaches are trying to figure out scheduling (not to mention talking to coaches a lot of about scheduling on air, off air, and sitting at a bar even) ... I don't think we can just start making assumptions no one wants to play at CNU suddenly.

Furthermore, why would no one want to play at CNU as opposed to playing CNU in the first place. The argument you jumped off of was that no one wants to play CNU and are seemingly trying to twist it to no one wants to play AT CNU. Why in the world would that suddenly be an issue? If no one wanted to play AT CNU, wouldn't that have popped up a lot sooner than this season? How the athletic department spends money and such doesn't suddenly make CNU a location no one wants to play at. And CNU has been pretty good for awhile now, so it isn't like suddenly no one wants to play CNU ... but they are playing CNU, so that doesn't hold water, either.

I think this is a bit of grasping at straws without a lot of actual facts. Let's see how things play out past this one season before we start making any assumptions about scheduling ... especially not wanting to play AT some place.

the biggest roadblock to home games is probably the 3 men's tourneys at cnu.  depending on year, men usually have 1 or 2 cnu tourneys.  All of the conference games were end of season loaded, so no real chance to get non-conference game after Christmas break like most conferences in region.  guess cnu AD should be fine with women's travel budget increase with extra proceeds from men's tourneys.

I asked John Krikorian about this specifically at the beginning of the year.  He said the women's team had every opportunity for home games - it wasn't an either/or situation.  Broderick decided on the away tourneys route this year - I've not specifically asked him about the rationale on that, but I'm sure he has one.  Krikorian did say they're looking at doing some of those annual tournaments as men's and women's combined events with eight teams in the building for a weekend.  They certainly have the facilities and support to do it.
that would be fun atmosphere if 8 teams (mixed) playing tournament.  how hard to do that?  other d3 tournaments like that anywhere?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 22, 2020, 10:32:38 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 21, 2020, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
But you are taking one year and saying "no one wants to play at CNU."

First off, Ryan pointed out the men had a few tournaments, so there could have been some logistical problems for the women getting the home dates they wanted,.

Secondly, if this holds true next year then maybe you have something to consider. However, this is one year. There could have been a lot of factors in play as to why they didn't get as many home games as you (or they) wanted. I've seen teams have a lot of away games because scheduling can sometimes just be quirky. I also have seen teams that need games having to play the games on the road that first go-around because the opponent they want to play controls the terms. Not that uncommon.

You do realize the CAC had less members this year and that meant more non-conference games than in years past, right? Frostburg and PSU-Harrisburg left ahead of this season ... that is FOUR more games in the non-conference.

The SMC tournament makes sense to me ... both CAC teams need a few more games and the coaches know one another. They probably decided (a) they could do a tournament there and both teams get two more games with ease or (b) SMC needed another opponent and knew that CNU needed games and invited them to help each other out.

I've been pretty involved in scheduling tournament and been in the offices when coaches are trying to figure out scheduling (not to mention talking to coaches a lot of about scheduling on air, off air, and sitting at a bar even) ... I don't think we can just start making assumptions no one wants to play at CNU suddenly.

Furthermore, why would no one want to play at CNU as opposed to playing CNU in the first place. The argument you jumped off of was that no one wants to play CNU and are seemingly trying to twist it to no one wants to play AT CNU. Why in the world would that suddenly be an issue? If no one wanted to play AT CNU, wouldn't that have popped up a lot sooner than this season? How the athletic department spends money and such doesn't suddenly make CNU a location no one wants to play at. And CNU has been pretty good for awhile now, so it isn't like suddenly no one wants to play CNU ... but they are playing CNU, so that doesn't hold water, either.

I think this is a bit of grasping at straws without a lot of actual facts. Let's see how things play out past this one season before we start making any assumptions about scheduling ... especially not wanting to play AT some place.

the biggest roadblock to home games is probably the 3 men's tourneys at cnu.  depending on year, men usually have 1 or 2 cnu tourneys.  All of the conference games were end of season loaded, so no real chance to get non-conference game after Christmas break like most conferences in region.  guess cnu AD should be fine with women's travel budget increase with extra proceeds from men's tourneys.

I asked John Krikorian about this specifically at the beginning of the year.  He said the women's team had every opportunity for home games - it wasn't an either/or situation.  Broderick decided on the away tourneys route this year - I've not specifically asked him about the rationale on that, but I'm sure he has one.  Krikorian did say they're looking at doing some of those annual tournaments as men's and women's combined events with eight teams in the building for a weekend.  They certainly have the facilities and support to do it.
that would be fun atmosphere if 8 teams (mixed) playing tournament.  how hard to do that?  other d3 tournaments like that anywhere?

They bring in a ton of teams, men and women, for the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas.  The arena is attached to the hotel, so they may not have the same lockerroom demands??  One of the guys would have to answer that.  Typically it's space in the facility more than anything else that's an issue.  I know CNU would like to prove you can host men and women on the same weekend, in the same place to convince the NCAA to try it in the post-season.  Not every school could do it, but CNU is set up well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 22, 2020, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
I asked John Krikorian about this specifically at the beginning of the year.  He said the women's team had every opportunity for home games - it wasn't an either/or situation.  Broderick decided on the away tourneys route this year - I've not specifically asked him about the rationale on that, but I'm sure he has one.  Krikorian did say they're looking at doing some of those annual tournaments as men's and women's combined events with eight teams in the building for a weekend.  They certainly have the facilities and support to do it.

Gee ... I wonder where he has heard that idea before.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:59:21 AM

They bring in a ton of teams, men and women, for the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas.  The arena is attached to the hotel, so they may not have the same lockerroom demands??  One of the guys would have to answer that.  Typically it's space in the facility more than anything else that's an issue.  I know CNU would like to prove you can host men and women on the same weekend, in the same place to convince the NCAA to try it in the post-season.  Not every school could do it, but CNU is set up well.

They maybe should get up to speed with the NCAA ... Division III has said there will be no more mutual hosting during the tournaments. Period. Not going to happen no matter how much CNU wants to prove they can do it. It isn't something that will happen.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2020, 12:35:04 PM
Agreed that dual hosting is a non-starter. Even though CNU and UW-Stevens Point and other schools could certainly pull it off, the appropriate D-III committees wouldn't want to give an advantage to the handful of schools which could effectively manage hosting two tournaments, while the other 400-plus would have to play by other hosting rules.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on January 22, 2020, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2020, 04:18:18 PM
Agnes Scott
Bryn Mawr
Cedar Crest
Hollins
Meredith
Notre Dame (Md.)
Salem
Sweet Briar
Trinity (DC)
Wesleyan (Ga.)

yeah, that seems like it would work, Dave, good thinking

Been there, done that. It didn't work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_South_Athletic_Conference

First, there are travel issues. Why would Hollins or Sweet Briar want to ditch the ODAC with all but one conference game in Virginia in exchange for road trips to Pennsylvania or southern Georgia?
Second, these are small private women's colleges. We're in an age when small private schools are closing every year, and private women's schools are going co-ed. Why would they create another conference with barely enough members to qualify for automatic bids, when one or two of your members could close or move to a co-ed conference after it starts admitting men?
As much as some of us hate to admit it, oversized D3 conferences like USA South, ODAC, or MAC are the way to go for private colleges.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 22, 2020, 03:23:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 22, 2020, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
I asked John Krikorian about this specifically at the beginning of the year.  He said the women's team had every opportunity for home games - it wasn't an either/or situation.  Broderick decided on the away tourneys route this year - I've not specifically asked him about the rationale on that, but I'm sure he has one.  Krikorian did say they're looking at doing some of those annual tournaments as men's and women's combined events with eight teams in the building for a weekend.  They certainly have the facilities and support to do it.

Gee ... I wonder where he has heard that idea before.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:59:21 AM

They bring in a ton of teams, men and women, for the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas.  The arena is attached to the hotel, so they may not have the same lockerroom demands??  One of the guys would have to answer that.  Typically it's space in the facility more than anything else that's an issue.  I know CNU would like to prove you can host men and women on the same weekend, in the same place to convince the NCAA to try it in the post-season.  Not every school could do it, but CNU is set up well.

They maybe should get up to speed with the NCAA ... Division III has said there will be no more mutual hosting during the tournaments. Period. Not going to happen no matter how much CNU wants to prove they can do it. It isn't something that will happen.

d3hoops ever look into doing same tourney on East Coast?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 22, 2020, 03:53:26 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 22, 2020, 12:26:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2020, 03:14:45 PM
I asked John Krikorian about this specifically at the beginning of the year.  He said the women's team had every opportunity for home games - it wasn't an either/or situation.  Broderick decided on the away tourneys route this year - I've not specifically asked him about the rationale on that, but I'm sure he has one.  Krikorian did say they're looking at doing some of those annual tournaments as men's and women's combined events with eight teams in the building for a weekend.  They certainly have the facilities and support to do it.

Gee ... I wonder where he has heard that idea before.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:59:21 AM

They bring in a ton of teams, men and women, for the D3hoops.com Classic in Vegas.  The arena is attached to the hotel, so they may not have the same lockerroom demands??  One of the guys would have to answer that.  Typically it's space in the facility more than anything else that's an issue.  I know CNU would like to prove you can host men and women on the same weekend, in the same place to convince the NCAA to try it in the post-season.  Not every school could do it, but CNU is set up well.

They maybe should get up to speed with the NCAA ... Division III has said there will be no more mutual hosting during the tournaments. Period. Not going to happen no matter how much CNU wants to prove they can do it. It isn't something that will happen.

Calm down Dave.

1. Nobody said Krikorian/Broderick had a new and unique idea. Ryan was just saying what they had discussed. It would be something CNU is willing to try to see how it goes.
2. CNU KNOWS they cannot dual host NCAA. No need to "get up to speed". Ryan was just speculating or throwing out his thoughts.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 23, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
First off - my first comment had nothing to do with the second.

The first one about where they got the idea of eight-teams in the building is a bit close for comfort ... since I have talked to them about a tournament there and that is my exact model.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 23, 2020, 02:20:52 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 23, 2020, 11:54:25 AM
First off - my first comment had nothing to do with the second.

The first one about where they got the idea of eight-teams in the building is a bit close for comfort ... since I have talked to them about a tournament there and that is my exact model.

That's why I labeled my replies 1 and 2. I know the comments were not related
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 23, 2020, 06:38:37 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=4l16h/d2ivtmmib15traho.jpg)

The Division III basketball season has reached the point where many conferences are making the turn into the second half of their double-round robins. The landscape of those conferences has gotten a little more in focus ... and there are some surprises.

Thursday on Hoopsville, we chat with a few coaches whose teams are on top of their conference races either surprising many with that simple fact or getting there with surprising outcomes.

Plus, we talk to a coach (whose team happens to be leading their conference as well) who become a head coach in a rather surprising manner. How she adapted and now finds herself in Division III and how the coaching community also came to her aid.

There is also breaking news out of the NCAA Convention regarding regional realignment and expansion. And much more to get everyone up to speed.

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Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
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- Jacey Brooks, Cortland women's coach
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- Alecia Parker, Pacific women's coach

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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 23, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
ACAA merge with CAC, wow .... wonder which "region" or multi-region the new CAC(?) belongs in once d3 goes to 10 regions for bball?
Are we sure new CAC keeps AQ even though most will never play each other during regular season?  Only thing I found on AQ qualification is 70% regular season games against conference members.  http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment
If no min regular season games vs conference members, maybe new CAC decides AQ with conference tourney rotated by different schools?  In bball, I could see seeding by overall record or massey rating for seeding.  lots to be ironed out.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 23, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
As I said on Hoopsville ... it does not sound like any effort to add a in-season playing requirement is going anywhere within DIII ... so, the only requirement is the 7 members. What you found in an article has gone no where.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 24, 2020, 12:41:28 AM
If the merger goes through, that'll give the conference seven men's basketball teams.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 24, 2020, 09:48:11 AM
(Note: I'm posting based on my memory from several months ago -- so I'm sure I'm messing up some facts. Dave- correct me where I err).

Not too long ago I did an analysis of the sports offered in the ACAA and CAC. There are some current ACAA teams that will be gone after this year. If memory serves me right this issue only resolves 6 sports for current CAC members. Most schools offer over 20 sports. So only about a 1/3 of the issues are resolved. The requirement for in conference games for an AQ was put on hold several months ago. Work still needs to be done for many sports such as baseball.

In my opinion, this is a band aid. But sometimes band aids will temporarily be of benefit until the longer term solution is figured out.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2020, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on January 24, 2020, 12:41:28 AM
If the merger goes through, that'll give the conference seven men's basketball teams.

After next season.  Pratt doesn't count until its in year three.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2020, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on January 24, 2020, 12:41:28 AM
If the merger goes through, that'll give the conference seven men's basketball teams.

After next season.  Pratt doesn't count until its in year three.

And of course next year SMC and SVU are still in the "CAC" ... so it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 24, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Hey Dave,

Any additional Post-Hoopsville news on the merger?



Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on January 24, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Hey Dave,

Any additional Post-Hoopsville news on the merger?

Not as of yet. I am asking around and have many sources that could cull more info for me. If I have more info, I will likely tweet it or announce it on the show first (or second)... only because the boards aren't my first place to go with that info when I get it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 24, 2020, 03:54:38 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on January 24, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Hey Dave,

Any additional Post-Hoopsville news on the merger?

Not as of yet. I am asking around and have many sources that could cull more info for me. If I have more info, I will likely tweet it or announce it on the show first (or second)... only because the boards aren't my first place to go with that info when I get it.

Cool beans. I guess this old guy will pay more attention to Twitter!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 24, 2020, 07:21:51 PM
Dave,
Anyway SMC or SVU NOT leave CAC?  like you said, pulled rip cord too quick.  maybe a way to stuff parachute back?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 26, 2020, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 24, 2020, 07:21:51 PM
Dave,
Anyway SMC or SVU NOT leave CAC?  like you said, pulled rip cord too quick.  maybe a way to stuff parachute back?

SVU - no.

SMC - maybe ... but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2020, 01:10:12 PM

Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (CSI will still honor its CUNYAC schedule but is a provisional D2 member)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
[/quote]
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on February 26, 2020, 01:22:16 AM
2021-22
SVU leaves the CAC for USA South.
St. Mary's of Maryland leaves the CAC for the North Eastern AC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 26, 2020, 01:55:28 PM
I posted this seven pages back:

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (MD) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
And I just bumped it yesterday. LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2020, 03:37:50 PM
D3 membership committee February 2020 report: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2020D3Memb_Report.pdf

Warren Wilson approved for provisional membership and Manor College, currently a JUCO (Jenkintown PA) for exploratory membership. Bob Jones University application for provisional membership was kicked back for the school to do additional work on the application.

D'Youville (AMCC) is leaving for Division II. It hopes to begin the transition process this summer.

Berea got a sports sponsorship waiver for canceling its baseball season due to team misconduct.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 03:41:35 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2020, 03:37:50 PM
D3 membership committee February 2020 report: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2020D3Memb_Report.pdf

Warren Wilson approved for provisional membership and Manor College, currently a JUCO (Jenkintown PA) for exploratory membership. Bob Jones University application for provisional membership was kicked back for the school to do additional work on the application.

D'Youville (AMCC) is leaving for Division II. It hopes to begin the transition process this summer.

Berea got a sports sponsorship waiver for canceling its baseball season due to team misconduct.

We mentioned D'Youville on Hoopsville a few weeks back. Worst kept secret in the Buffalo area - thus how I found out.

They obviously have to be approved by DII which is likely. I got the sense they are living in a dream world that somehow they are going to suddenly become more competitive and get recruits they aren't getting now ... but if they can't be competitive in DIII, I highly doubt that changes in DII. Their problems with recruiting aren't the division.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2020, 04:07:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 03:41:35 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2020, 03:37:50 PM
D3 membership committee February 2020 report: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2020D3Memb_Report.pdf

Warren Wilson approved for provisional membership and Manor College, currently a JUCO (Jenkintown PA) for exploratory membership. Bob Jones University application for provisional membership was kicked back for the school to do additional work on the application.

D'Youville (AMCC) is leaving for Division II. It hopes to begin the transition process this summer.

Berea got a sports sponsorship waiver for canceling its baseball season due to team misconduct.

We mentioned D'Youville on Hoopsville a few weeks back. Worst kept secret in the Buffalo area - thus how I found out.

They obviously have to be approved by DII which is likely. I got the sense they are living in a dream world that somehow they are going to suddenly become more competitive and get recruits they aren't getting now ... but if they can't be competitive in DIII, I highly doubt that changes in DII. Their problems with recruiting aren't the division.

well I'll be darned they joined the ECC on Monday.

https://dyouville.prestosports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200302pu17b0
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 05:00:22 PM
Well they didn't "join" ... they have to be accepted by Division II and that decision won't happen until July.

Sure, they likely won't be turned down ... but at the same time, stranger things have happened.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 04, 2020, 05:22:36 PM
Can't D-II offer some scholarship money? That can change some kids minds. 

I know that the children [three girls/one boy] of one of our Potsdam National Champion/Hall of Famers all went to and starred/were decent players at ECC D-II schools [Queens and New Haven]. 

The school's website says the son was awarded a "full athletic scholarship".

If I was offered a scholarship to play ball, that might make a school more attractive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 04, 2020, 05:22:36 PM
Can't D-II offer some scholarship money? That can change some kids minds. 

I know that the children [three girls/one boy] of one of our Potsdam National Champion/Hall of Famers all went to and starred/were decent players at ECC D-II schools [Queens and New Haven]. 

The school's website says the son was awarded a "full athletic scholarship".

If I was offered a scholarship to play ball, that might make a school more attractive.

Yes, but the money is limited ... and from what I have gathered, that isn't going to solve the problems. I have to go back to my notes with those I have chatted with .. but there needs to be an effort to recruit and now that they are in DII, they probably need to have a bigger footprint which I don't think D'Youville has ever really tried to have.

DIII students tend to get a lot more money in academics than DII gives out in money. Remember, scholarships are not full-rides. They can be divided up however a coach wants to split them up. So, sometimes you can say you got a scholarship to go to a DII school, but in reality you probably would have saved more (paid less) money going to DIII. There is a reason DIII students are known to turn down DI and DII offers - money being part of it.

If a DII school offers a "full ride" to anyone, they significantly affect their scholarship money for all their other recruits. The only sports in the NCAA where full-rides are mandatory are D1 football and men's and women's basketball. All other sports that offer scholarships can split them up. So you can have "8 scholarships," but that could mean you give money to 15 players if you want. None of them getting a full ride.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2020, 05:34:25 PM
NCAA D-II schools can give 10 scholarships. That probably splits pretty well among 15 players if a school is fully funded.

For NAIA D-II, though, it's just six, and there we definitely see NAIA packages which are smaller than what D-III can offer in aid.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 05:36:07 PM
My scholarship number was in quotes because I couldn't remember the number and didn't want to go look it up (put me in the weeds of researching other things LOL).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AO on March 05, 2020, 01:09:47 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 05:32:14 PM
If a DII school offers a "full ride" to anyone, they significantly affect their scholarship money for all their other recruits. The only sports in the NCAA where full-rides are mandatory are D1 football and men's and women's basketball. All other sports that offer scholarships can split them up. So you can have "8 scholarships," but that could mean you give money to 15 players if you want. None of them getting a full ride.
To make up for the greater number of football scholarships Women's tennis, gymnastics and volleyball are also "head count" sports where every scholarship given is a full scholarship. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2020, 01:00:45 PM
Quote from: AO on March 05, 2020, 01:09:47 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2020, 05:32:14 PM
If a DII school offers a "full ride" to anyone, they significantly affect their scholarship money for all their other recruits. The only sports in the NCAA where full-rides are mandatory are D1 football and men's and women's basketball. All other sports that offer scholarships can split them up. So you can have "8 scholarships," but that could mean you give money to 15 players if you want. None of them getting a full ride.
To make up for the greater number of football scholarships Women's tennis, gymnastics and volleyball are also "head count" sports where every scholarship given is a full scholarship.

This is true ... I keep forgetting those three.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 27, 2020, 04:42:46 PM
MacMurray leaving the SLIAC due to closure ... immediately.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 27, 2020, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 27, 2020, 04:42:46 PM
MacMurray leaving the SLIAC due to closure ... immediately.

I know that Gordon wasn't talking about MacMurray on the show two weeks ago when he mentioned the issues at some Philadelphia area schools........including "one he works with". Keep your eyes out for that one (I think we both know who) as there is an "emergency conference call" next week to discuss "a significant matter".

You were right when you said that we'd be seeing some of this as time goes on.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 27, 2020, 06:05:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2020, 05:34:25 PM
NCAA D-II schools can give 10 scholarships. That probably splits pretty well among 15 players if a school is fully funded.

For NAIA D-II, though, it's just six, and there we definitely see NAIA packages which are smaller than what D-III can offer in aid.

Pat, is there some flexibility though in that "10"? I know some head coaches in the PSAC (football and a couple of basketball) and I know that I.U.P has a very well funded football program from various sources and that a couple of teams on the Eastern side of PA joke about how they can't compete from a scholarship (one called them 'units') standpoint against I.U.P., Slippery Rock and Cal U. 10 doesn't sound like a huge advantage................unless the complaining coaches have 1. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 27, 2020, 06:28:10 PM
There is a max given in DII and I believe Pat's number of 10 is accurate. Now, you can split those scholarships up however you want ... maybe that is something those others are doing well?

Or because those scholarships are "worth" more due to the cost of tuition at those institutions?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
Right, you do not have to give them as full scholarships. And that's not a minimum number of scholarships, it's a ceiling, so it's certainly possible that not every school gives the full allotment. (That's more common in football, where the limit is 36.)

There is a minimum amount of scholarship funding a school has to commit for the athletic department as a whole in order to be a Division II member as well, but no minimum per sport that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 27, 2020, 09:55:32 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
Right, you do not have to give them as full scholarships. And that's not a minimum number of scholarships, it's a ceiling, so it's certainly possible that not every school gives the full allotment. (That's more common in football, where the limit is 36.)

There is a minimum amount of scholarship funding a school has to commit for the athletic department as a whole in order to be a Division II member as well, but no minimum per sport that I'm aware of.

That makes sense. No names here (but pretty easy to figure out) but a head coach in the PSAC East (and former, hint hint, D3 head coach about an hour south of where he is now) said that his school, East Stroudsburg, Bloomsburg, West Chester, etc. start from behind the PSAC West's Big Three (I.U.P, Slippery Rock and Cal U) every year with what they can offer. I guess they are held back from a budgetary standpoint.

The head coach of a PSAC East hoops team (better hint........was a D3 head coach at the same school as the football coach above) mentioned the same thing about one school in particular, out West. Again, I.U.P. My buddy was the long time head coach at Clarion and he'd say the same thing about I.U.P. Maybe they are just more, eh hemm, "creative" ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 28, 2020, 01:17:00 PM
Dave, Ryan, Pat, Anybody (I'm bored out of my mind at the moment...........there is only so much financial market analysis I can do........and it's all a guess anyway :) )

Without disclosing anything that you guys might have been told off the record, how do you think some of the conferences shake out in the next couple of years (without factoring in a couple of the inevitable MacMurray type situations). I'm particularly interested in conferences like the CAC, NEAC, CSAC, AEC and both MAC's.

I would be interested in hearing all of your input, guesses, speculation as to what the next round or two of conference roulette might look like.

Thanks and be safe and healthy!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 31, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
I think how things shake out has been something I've been rather open about on Hoopsville and here in the past. I don't see anything now that changes my opinions.

The CAC will be merging with the ACAA - how that works will be determined - and it apparently could take place as soon as next academic year (understanding our current situation could put everything on hold). It will have to be under the CAC umbrella to keep AQs intact. The conference will become a bit of a stepping stone. Programs will use it, as they did the ACAA, to step into other conferences eventually. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is likely the reality.

I have always felt the MAC (both "leagues") goes through ebbs and flows with it's size. As it gets bigger to the point of too big, it tends to shed off a few members. You can look back at it's history and see that time and time again. Nothing wrong with it. It happens.

I would not be surprised in the least, especially in current economic times causing some budget tightening, if some MACs decide to leave for other conferences. Who? I can only whittle down who they may be on the following: likely schools that do NOT have football (stay in MAC for football); schools that aren't able to spend/have budgets like others in the MAC (i.e. football schools again would likely stay; budgets are already big). Where? I think it depends on location, but some of those choices might be obvious as there aren't a lot of options, really.

CSAC will grow a bit. They already have Valley Forge moving in I believe next season and I know they have an offer already available for another school in the region to join them (school just needs to settle their inner-changes and sign on the dotted line). CSAC is a good conference for the type of schools looking to grow. It isn't going anywhere.

NEAC is going to get smaller and things are going to get tough. They lose three or four next year (can't remember the exact count) with two going to the NAC and another to the Liberty (right?). Others will leave as well whether they want to our not (remember, Wells has been on tough economic times for several years even after bringing in men to try and right the ship; this current situation can not be helping Wells at all). That will create some interesting situations especially for a school like Morrisville State. While St. Mary's is expected in July 2021, that won't stop the bleeding. The NEAC just won't be as large as some think it will be and I'm not sure other members are going to stick around - the question becomes where do they go. I know of one who has tried to leave several times and hasn't been able to find a new home to their liking.

AEC will be fine - heck it may even grow. If the right members from either the MACs or elsewhere want to leave, they will find a home in the AEC. That can be the right conference for a group of schools who want to be competitive but just can't spend like the "big boys." Wesley is the only concern, but they are supposedly going to be bought by an out-of-state school (media reports have named them; I know the school, but not comfortable mentioning it). Yes, I have heard arguments that the current economic situation could end that merger possibility (which appears to leave the newly-renamed-Wesley in DIII athletics), but I think it still happens.

Landmark - no one talks about this conference, but I am not sure the future is bright as it stands. Merchant Marine left because they weren't the right fit afterall. E-town is a nice addition. However, I am not sure the current membership remains. Again, if the MAC were to shed one or two the Landmark is a good spot for those who fit the "like-mindedness" of this group. However, I also think there are some whose administrations aren't allowing them to truly fit in the Landmark. They would be better off in the AEC or the like. Will that happen? I can't really say because that comes down to whether anyone wants to swallow their egos and let student-athletes' experience drive the boat.

USA South - I have said many times I thought a split was coming ... but as I reported before, it seems to have been put on hold. But this conference is simply too big. It just doesn't make any sense (as it continues to grow as well). With only one AQ possible EVER (they will never get a grandfather clause like the MAC), the USA South has got to think about a split. There are several ways to do it and some will have to suck up the two years of no AQ (battling the top dogs in the CAC for Pool B), but I think this has to be seriously considered for this group of schools to have more realistic opportunities at NCAA tournament hopes and  to be able to put together competitive teams in all sports.

MIAC - just keep an eye on things here. St. Thomas is obviously out (exactly where is still to be determined; I do wonder if the current economic slow-down has D1 and UST reassessing feasibilities of the future), but I don't think the ripple effects of that decision are past the MIAC. I think some people are angered with how it all went down and further changes to the MIAC could still come ... and that could have ripple effects elsewhere.

I am also hearing there could be some movement still in that Midwest when it comes to conferences like the NACC and MWC ... but I couldn't give you any specifics or hints at all.

And there will be other movement. I don't think the NAC is done growing and other conferences will feel the effects of that movement. I think the division could be eyeing not only shrinking of membership due to school closures, but also the chance of growth as other schools reassess their feasibility in NAIA and DII. And as mentioned, school closings will have a big affect on everything.

In January, I predicted for D3 Playbook that 6-12 DIII institutions would close in 2020. At the time, I was well above any other predictions. Now I wonder if I am pretty low and more like 15-20 might shutter their doors.

We live in some interesting times.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on March 31, 2020, 03:23:46 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 31, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
I think how things shake out has been something I've been rather open about on Hoopsville and here in the past. I don't see anything now that changes my opinions.

The CAC will be merging with the ACAA - how that works will be determined - and it apparently could take place as soon as next academic year (understanding our current situation could put everything on hold). It will have to be under the CAC umbrella to keep AQs intact. The conference will become a bit of a stepping stone. Programs will use it, as they did the ACAA, to step into other conferences eventually. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is likely the reality.

I have always felt the MAC (both "leagues") goes through ebbs and flows with it's size. As it gets bigger to the point of too big, it tends to shed off a few members. You can look back at it's history and see that time and time again. Nothing wrong with it. It happens.

I would not be surprised in the least, especially in current economic times causing some budget tightening, if some MACs decide to leave for other conferences. Who? I can only whittle down who they may be on the following: likely schools that do NOT have football (stay in MAC for football); schools that aren't able to spend/have budgets like others in the MAC (i.e. football schools again would likely stay; budgets are already big). Where? I think it depends on location, but some of those choices might be obvious as there aren't a lot of options, really.

CSAC will grow a bit. They already have Valley Forge moving in I believe next season and I know they have an offer already available for another school in the region to join them (school just needs to settle their inner-changes and sign on the dotted line). CSAC is a good conference for the type of schools looking to grow. It isn't going anywhere.

NEAC is going to get smaller and things are going to get tough. They lose three or four next year (can't remember the exact count) with two going to the NAC and another to the Liberty (right?). Others will leave as well whether they want to our not (remember, Wells has been on tough economic times for several years even after bringing in men to try and right the ship; this current situation can not be helping Wells at all). That will create some interesting situations especially for a school like Morrisville State. While St. Mary's is expected in July 2021, that won't stop the bleeding. The NEAC just won't be as large as some think it will be and I'm not sure other members are going to stick around - the question becomes where do they go. I know of one who has tried to leave several times and hasn't been able to find a new home to their liking.

AEC will be fine - heck it may even grow. If the right members from either the MACs or elsewhere want to leave, they will find a home in the AEC. That can be the right conference for a group of schools who want to be competitive but just can't spend like the "big boys." Wesley is the only concern, but they are supposedly going to be bought by an out-of-state school (media reports have named them; I know the school, but not comfortable mentioning it). Yes, I have heard arguments that the current economic situation could end that merger possibility (which appears to leave the newly-renamed-Wesley in DIII athletics), but I think it still happens.

Landmark - no one talks about this conference, but I am not sure the future is bright as it stands. Merchant Marine left because they weren't the right fit afterall. E-town is a nice addition. However, I am not sure the current membership remains. Again, if the MAC were to shed one or two the Landmark is a good spot for those who fit the "like-mindedness" of this group. However, I also think there are some whose administrations aren't allowing them to truly fit in the Landmark. They would be better off in the AEC or the like. Will that happen? I can't really say because that comes down to whether anyone wants to swallow their egos and let student-athletes' experience drive the boat.

USA South - I have said many times I thought a split was coming ... but as I reported before, it seems to have been put on hold. But this conference is simply too big. It just doesn't make any sense (as it continues to grow as well). With only one AQ possible EVER (they will never get a grandfather clause like the MAC), the USA South has got to think about a split. There are several ways to do it and some will have to suck up the two years of no AQ (battling the top dogs in the CAC for Pool B), but I think this has to be seriously considered for this group of schools to have more realistic opportunities at NCAA tournament hopes and  to be able to put together competitive teams in all sports.

MIAC - just keep an eye on things here. St. Thomas is obviously out (exactly where is still to be determined; I do wonder if the current economic slow-down has D1 and UST reassessing feasibilities of the future), but I don't think the ripple effects of that decision are past the MIAC. I think some people are angered with how it all went down and further changes to the MIAC could still come ... and that could have ripple effects elsewhere.

I am also hearing there could be some movement still in that Midwest when it comes to conferences like the NACC and MWC ... but I couldn't give you any specifics or hints at all.

And there will be other movement. I don't think the NAC is done growing and other conferences will feel the effects of that movement. I think the division could be eyeing not only shrinking of membership due to school closures, but also the chance of growth as other schools reassess their feasibility in NAIA and DII. And as mentioned, school closings will have a big affect on everything.

In January, I predicted for D3 Playbook that 6-12 DIII institutions would close in 2020. At the time, I was well above any other predictions. Now I wonder if I am pretty low and more like 15-20 might shutter their doors.

We live in some interesting times.

  Are you talking about current Landmark members leaving or others considering joining(expanding) the Landmark?
Haven't seen any thoughts elsewhere on changing/expanding the Landmark.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 31, 2020, 03:37:22 PM
ronk - you wouldn't necessarily see any other thoughts on here about the Landmark ... no one has posted any. I have said on air and I've said elsewhere, I think the Landmark might see some schools come and go. I don't think they are that rock solid. I know expansion was mentioned in the past, but some felt going to ten schools wasn't in the best interest of the conference (despite being at nine at the time, if memory serves). I also think there is a chance one or two members decide the Landmark wasn't what they hoped it would be or, more likely, find themselves in situations that are very different than ten years ago and the Landmark is no longer the right fit for the department.

And I know a lot of stuff I don't share on here or on air ... thus why you also wouldn't necessarily see things posted or hear about them. My read on the Landmark is putting pieces together based on many conversations I've had in the region. It doesn't mean it will happen, but it is how I could see things developing reading the tea leaves (and what will be further movement).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 01, 2020, 09:06:22 AM
With SUNYIT, Cobelskill, Cazenovia and SUNY Delhi all joining the NAC, are they going to two divisions? It looks like they'll have 12. Related, with three NEAC North teams leaving, I assume the NEAC will go back to one division?

Also, I noticed on the Skyline website, they have two divisions listed, but on the d3hoops standing page, the Skyline is still listed as one. Was that simply an oversight?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 01, 2020, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 01, 2020, 09:06:22 AM
With SUNYIT, Cobelskill, Cazenovia and SUNY Delhi all joining the NAC, are they going to two divisions? It looks like they'll have 12. Related, with three NEAC North teams leaving, I assume the NEAC will go back to one division?

Also, I noticed on the Skyline website, they have two divisions listed, but on the d3hoops standing page, the Skyline is still listed as one. Was that simply an oversight?

NEAC might have to, although that's not going to make the teams happy.  The divisions had a lot to do with cutting down travel times.  I'm pretty sure the NAC has plans for divisions, but maybe not just yet.  We'll see.  As for the Skyline, I was unaware of the divisions.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 31, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
I think how things shake out has been something I've been rather open about on Hoopsville and here in the past. I don't see anything now that changes my opinions.

The CAC will be merging with the ACAA - how that works will be determined - and it apparently could take place as soon as next academic year (understanding our current situation could put everything on hold). It will have to be under the CAC umbrella to keep AQs intact. The conference will become a bit of a stepping stone. Programs will use it, as they did the ACAA, to step into other conferences eventually. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is likely the reality.

I have always felt the MAC (both "leagues") goes through ebbs and flows with it's size. As it gets bigger to the point of too big, it tends to shed off a few members. You can look back at it's history and see that time and time again. Nothing wrong with it. It happens.

I would not be surprised in the least, especially in current economic times causing some budget tightening, if some MACs decide to leave for other conferences. Who? I can only whittle down who they may be on the following: likely schools that do NOT have football (stay in MAC for football); schools that aren't able to spend/have budgets like others in the MAC (i.e. football schools again would likely stay; budgets are already big). Where? I think it depends on location, but some of those choices might be obvious as there aren't a lot of options, really.

CSAC will grow a bit. They already have Valley Forge moving in I believe next season and I know they have an offer already available for another school in the region to join them (school just needs to settle their inner-changes and sign on the dotted line). CSAC is a good conference for the type of schools looking to grow. It isn't going anywhere.

NEAC is going to get smaller and things are going to get tough. They lose three or four next year (can't remember the exact count) with two going to the NAC and another to the Liberty (right?). Others will leave as well whether they want to our not (remember, Wells has been on tough economic times for several years even after bringing in men to try and right the ship; this current situation can not be helping Wells at all). That will create some interesting situations especially for a school like Morrisville State. While St. Mary's is expected in July 2021, that won't stop the bleeding. The NEAC just won't be as large as some think it will be and I'm not sure other members are going to stick around - the question becomes where do they go. I know of one who has tried to leave several times and hasn't been able to find a new home to their liking.

AEC will be fine - heck it may even grow. If the right members from either the MACs or elsewhere want to leave, they will find a home in the AEC. That can be the right conference for a group of schools who want to be competitive but just can't spend like the "big boys." Wesley is the only concern, but they are supposedly going to be bought by an out-of-state school (media reports have named them; I know the school, but not comfortable mentioning it). Yes, I have heard arguments that the current economic situation could end that merger possibility (which appears to leave the newly-renamed-Wesley in DIII athletics), but I think it still happens.

Landmark - no one talks about this conference, but I am not sure the future is bright as it stands. Merchant Marine left because they weren't the right fit afterall. E-town is a nice addition. However, I am not sure the current membership remains. Again, if the MAC were to shed one or two the Landmark is a good spot for those who fit the "like-mindedness" of this group. However, I also think there are some whose administrations aren't allowing them to truly fit in the Landmark. They would be better off in the AEC or the like. Will that happen? I can't really say because that comes down to whether anyone wants to swallow their egos and let student-athletes' experience drive the boat.

USA South - I have said many times I thought a split was coming ... but as I reported before, it seems to have been put on hold. But this conference is simply too big. It just doesn't make any sense (as it continues to grow as well). With only one AQ possible EVER (they will never get a grandfather clause like the MAC), the USA South has got to think about a split. There are several ways to do it and some will have to suck up the two years of no AQ (battling the top dogs in the CAC for Pool B), but I think this has to be seriously considered for this group of schools to have more realistic opportunities at NCAA tournament hopes and  to be able to put together competitive teams in all sports.

MIAC - just keep an eye on things here. St. Thomas is obviously out (exactly where is still to be determined; I do wonder if the current economic slow-down has D1 and UST reassessing feasibilities of the future), but I don't think the ripple effects of that decision are past the MIAC. I think some people are angered with how it all went down and further changes to the MIAC could still come ... and that could have ripple effects elsewhere.

I am also hearing there could be some movement still in that Midwest when it comes to conferences like the NACC and MWC ... but I couldn't give you any specifics or hints at all.

And there will be other movement. I don't think the NAC is done growing and other conferences will feel the effects of that movement. I think the division could be eyeing not only shrinking of membership due to school closures, but also the chance of growth as other schools reassess their feasibility in NAIA and DII. And as mentioned, school closings will have a big affect on everything.

In January, I predicted for D3 Playbook that 6-12 DIII institutions would close in 2020. At the time, I was well above any other predictions. Now I wonder if I am pretty low and more like 15-20 might shutter their doors.

We live in some interesting times.

Dave - Thanks for the very thorough response!!

NEAC: To answer someone else's question here, the NEAC will go down to one division. Not everybody is happy, but they realize it's what has to happen, at least for now. I'm hearing that Lancaster Bible (after a couple of failed attempts, primarily self inflicted wounds though) is desperately looking to leave the NEAC. I also wonder if St. Mary's is regretting and/or can back out of their decision to move to the NEAC. It looks like there might be a better option or two for them when the conference roulette dust settles. The NEAC will be down to 8 with the 4 departing schools and if LBC is successful, now we're at 7. Morrisville would love out but there is no natural NY fit as of today. Does this eventually become the PA version of the WIAC or a modified WIAC, with primarily PSU satellite schools and a few other non-PSU schools? Sam Atkinson knows one hell of a lot more than me, although he probably can't go on the record at this point. My guess.....Lancaster Bible to the CSAC within 3 years.

MAC: I've got several long time connections here and Dave's comments about a couple of proximate conferences being potential landing spots for departing schools makes sense given what I am hearing. Arcadia is an easy one, given that they had one foot out the door two years ago before backing out of a move (I forget if it was to the AEC or CSAC). DeSales has been quietly looking for a while and has actually been engaged in some quiet conversations with one conference in particular. They did a feasibility study looking at adding football and it was shot down. Messiah is also sniffing around, but does not know what would make better sense at this point. Lastly, the MAC is fully aware of their schools that are either looking around or have been approached and as a result.........they have a few potential "replacements" on speed dial so to speak. As an example, if King's/Wilkes/Miser all stay together in the MAC, the Christian school (whose name escapes me at the moment........right up the turnpike from those three) that recently added football is a target as well as another school or two that I won't mention here, but could be guessed quite easily. Two more MAC tidbits to watch out for, later rather than sooner, unless their is a lot of upheaval in the MAC..................and I will very briefly mention it below:

Landmark: Stevens (will leave it at that, as brief as I could be) :)

AEC: Would love to add Eastern

Last question, I'm pretty friendly with a couple of people down at Bob Jones and they have shown interest (I believe they are in the beginning stages at this moment) in becoming a part of NCAA D3, and like Lancaster Bible, it gives them the opportunity to stay in the NCCAA and get involved in their regional and national tournaments........unless they were to win their conference tournament and get an AQ. They are adding sports (baseball and softball were delayed by a year) and are looking at lacrosse and a couple of others. They are also in solid shape financially and have some nice facilities. Their gym is top notch (not in a Hope kind of way, nor in comparison to Wesley/Eastern/Manhattanville/DeSales either) and other non-athletic facilities are as well.

Dave, given where they are in Greenville, SC, is there a "natural" geographic conference for Bob Jones somewhere down the road?

Last question, do you see Hood as a long term member of the MAC, especially if they are eventually the only non-football member? I'm not hearing anything here, just a question.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
Great stuff here, JM -- reminds me of when you had that Mid-Atlantic site way back in the day!

Keystone is the one which added football.

Arcadia had been on the list for the AEC.

I'd be amused by Stevens coming to the Landmark. They were a founding member, and their president even leaked the announcement, and then Stevens left very early on in the process, allowing Scranton an opportunity to join.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
As far as the MAC losing its non-football schools -- there are still a bunch who don't have football and I would be surprised if the MAC whittles. The MAC has a lot of pride in being the one conference that has that grandfathered exception regarding multiple automatic bids and I'm sure the new leadership will be just as eager to keep it, and probably more effective in its ability to attract members.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on April 01, 2020, 01:35:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
Great stuff here, JM -- reminds me of when you had that Mid-Atlantic site way back in the day!

Keystone is the one which added football.

Arcadia had been on the list for the AEC.

I'd be amused by Stevens coming to the Landmark. They were a founding member, and their president even leaked the announcement, and then Stevens left very early on in the process, allowing Scranton an opportunity to join.

That would seem to warrant against a return to the Landmark; in addition, Stevens has been in 3 different conferences since then(how long before they jump again?) and increasing membership to 9 from 8 would cause more negatives than positives.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on April 01, 2020, 01:45:27 PM
Lately of all the boards this is becoming a favorite of mine. Love the insight. Being from a university in the AEC getting more schools in the conference would be wonderful for me and I'm sure others. The fact that they have had so few games for me attend has been frustrating. All these road tournaments to get the requisite 25 games has been aggravating, especially because they have to play a lot of them during my busy season(the holidays). Plus they don't have as many home games as they once did.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on April 01, 2020, 04:06:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
Right, you do not have to give them as full scholarships. And that's not a minimum number of scholarships, it's a ceiling, so it's certainly possible that not every school gives the full allotment. (That's more common in football, where the limit is 36.)

There is a minimum amount of scholarship funding a school has to commit for the athletic department as a whole in order to be a Division II member as well, but no minimum per sport that I'm aware of.

Our AD used to give Advancement presentations on ther percentage of full funding each school in the GNAC (PNW style) funded. Alaska Anchorage was the highest at about 85 to 90 percent. Western Oregon seemed to be always near the bottom.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on April 01, 2020, 04:09:39 PM
More D2 carnage - Notre Dame de Namur is suspending athletics and may close. So the *death* watch is on for D2 and D3 schools that a private and tuition dependent.

They weren't a very competitive school so D3 PNW or Cali schools may grab some of their athletes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
Great stuff here, JM -- reminds me of when you had that Mid-Atlantic site way back in the day!

Keystone is the one which added football.

Arcadia had been on the list for the AEC.

I'd be amused by Stevens coming to the Landmark. They were a founding member, and their president even leaked the announcement, and then Stevens left very early on in the process, allowing Scranton an opportunity to join.

Thanks Pat!! By the way.................Dave, you, Ryan, Gordon and Bob were awesome on the Hoopsville shows this year. That '5 box' is a biatch though. ;)

You are correct about Keystone. I might have been confusing them with Clarks Summit when I mentioned the 'Christian' school.

Arcadia continues to get overtures and I think that they are the first, if any do, of the MAC schools to move on. The AEC would be a decent fit. Eastern would be much more of a natural, given their profile and the proximity to Cabrini.

I think that the only way that Stevens winds up in the Landmark is if there is a departure and they are the most natural fit.

Of course, none of this factors in what happens if we have a few MacMurray's out this way (I could see a couple of MAC schools follow suit). I also wonder what would happen in a Doomsday scenario, as the CDC is now saying that this will "be with us" for the next 18 - 24 months..........on top of others now jumping in Kirk Herbstreit's recent comments.

The financial hit in hoops without the conference(s) and the national tournament was one thing, a big thing.................but, IF there is no college football this coming season, the financial hit would be exponentially greater............AND the two combined would be massive!! The mother ship up at Happy Valley, like most big time college programs, is funded through football. What is the trickle down to all of the other (outside of men's basketball and wrestling) non-revenue generating sports? What is the impact on all of the numerous PSU satellite campus?

We might be heading down a Conference Roulette path in the next couple of years, the likes of which we've never seen.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 01, 2020, 08:19:54 PM

I guess we don't really know what college campuses will be up for yet, but I do think there's plenty of time for sports to be back in the fall (and probably summer).  Once the testing gets caught up and those in charge have confidence we've crested and understand where the most serious outbreaks are, you're going to see pro sports coming back without fans.  We'll almost certainly have some pretty serious restrictions for a year or more, but there's almost no way we aren't on the downswing, in terms of medical capacity, by the fall.

With the number of schools reliant on tuition coming in, they're going to find a way to get students on campus, and, if they're there, they'll find a way to do athletics.  We might not get to see games in person, but the numbers we have now would have to plateau for months for the stay at home orders to still be necessary then.  I guess it would be good for everyone if that happened, but mathematically it's pretty unlikely.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Dave - Thanks for the very thorough response!!

NEAC: To answer someone else's question here, the NEAC will go down to one division. Not everybody is happy, but they realize it's what has to happen, at least for now. I'm hearing that Lancaster Bible (after a couple of failed attempts, primarily self inflicted wounds though) is desperately looking to leave the NEAC. I also wonder if St. Mary's is regretting and/or can back out of their decision to move to the NEAC. It looks like there might be a better option or two for them when the conference roulette dust settles. The NEAC will be down to 8 with the 4 departing schools and if LBC is successful, now we're at 7. Morrisville would love out but there is no natural NY fit as of today. Does this eventually become the PA version of the WIAC or a modified WIAC, with primarily PSU satellite schools and a few other non-PSU schools? Sam Atkinson knows one hell of a lot more than me, although he probably can't go on the record at this point. My guess.....Lancaster Bible to the CSAC within 3 years.

When I made calls to SMC about their move to the NEAC, I was surprised at what I deemed to be either naive thinking or misunderstanding of the landscape. I don't think either they did their homework and research or they bought the spin being sent their way which was completely erronious. I can't remember what I have said on air or not, but they were under the impression the NEAC would be growing (knowing who would be leaving; already announced) back into a 12-member, division split conference (saving SMC eventually on travel since they wouldn't have to head north all that often). I was blunt: who do you think they are bringing in? -silence- Then a response about a few names. I shot down each one of them because I knew that IF those institutions were leaving their respective conferences, they would NOT be headed to the NEAC. That they had several stops along the way, as it where. (I am not going to name the institutions, because it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.) At the same time, I explained who else was going to leave in the near future - ones I knew and ones my hunch was stronger than just a guess.

One of those leaving will be LBC as you indicated. However, I think the move, likely to the CSAC (I can't say too much based on convos I've had off the record), will be in far less than three years. If it takes 18 months to announce I would be shocked. My feeling is a year at the most, but more likely by next fall. Granted, our current situation leaves things more up in the air and could change the timeline for a lot of things.

NEAC is running into problems that its last commissioner allowed to fester. First, far too big geographically (remember, miles in this area don't matter as much as traffic, time on the road, and weather). Plus, the NEAC has a number of institutions who are financially weak (i.e. Wells). I think they lose more of the privates and as I've indicated I think Morrisville State is looking for another option. They have to be after the others defected.

I also don't think there is any more PA state schools coming. I know you keep referencing the small, non-athletic or juco like state schools shifting to four-year and becoming DIII institutions, but every time I check this with those in the know throughout the state the more I think this isn't happening. If it where to develop, it is probably ten years from fruition and we would have to see some concrete moves well beforehand. Those moves just aren't showing up.

And I don't think you need to worry about Sam Atkinson ... Gallaudet has to figure out what they want to do moving forward and I don't think the NEAC is where they stay. They have tried for years to leave the conference to no avail, but that doesn't mean it stays that way.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
MAC: I've got several long time connections here and Dave's comments about a couple of proximate conferences being potential landing spots for departing schools makes sense given what I am hearing. Arcadia is an easy one, given that they had one foot out the door two years ago before backing out of a move (I forget if it was to the AEC or CSAC). DeSales has been quietly looking for a while and has actually been engaged in some quiet conversations with one conference in particular. They did a feasibility study looking at adding football and it was shot down. Messiah is also sniffing around, but does not know what would make better sense at this point. Lastly, the MAC is fully aware of their schools that are either looking around or have been approached and as a result.........they have a few potential "replacements" on speed dial so to speak. As an example, if King's/Wilkes/Miser all stay together in the MAC, the Christian school (whose name escapes me at the moment........right up the turnpike from those three) that recently added football is a target as well as another school or two that I won't mention here, but could be guessed quite easily. Two more MAC tidbits to watch out for, later rather than sooner, unless their is a lot of upheaval in the MAC..................and I will very briefly mention it below:

Much of what you indicate I have heard as well. I have wondered if DeSales was going to leave, but I also know they turned down overtures from the AEC group as it was forming. I don't know if they would look to that group again or not. I could see DeSales leaving ... and I could see them staying put especially since the Freedom is gaining strength.

Arcadia keeps popping up, but I'm just no longer biting on the bait. Yes, they were in the original group for the AEC. Then they were waiting as they found a new president. Then they were out. Then they were back in. Then they were waiting. Then they were back in. And then they were out at the last minute. I've been told they are frustrated at the spending in the conference, BUT they have also increased their own spending. Leaving would seem odd, but they are on my list of "possibles." I just have to see more real info before I am willing to buy into the rumors I hear from time to time.

I agree that if Messiah wants to leave, they have few options. Maybe the Landmark, but this is where the ego of the Landmark becomes a problem (as I've said in other places). The conference thinks their set-up is the best and they won't want someone powerful like Messiah coming in and rocking the boat. That said, they need a Messiah to help raise the profile of the conference because otherwise the Landmark will continue to remain in the middle of the road. They just haven't lived up to the expectations now ten years on - and many are admitting that publicly now.

I'm not buying the MAC has schools on speed-dial. First, they like to say this and said the same thing when the Landmark was formed ... but then took nearly the entire two-year grace period to find members to avoid any AQ problems. They had schools on speed dial, they forgot how to make calls. That shouldn't have taken two years. There are only a limited number remaining as well especially those who want to have a chance at conference glory ... rather than enter a jam packed group and try and fight through.

I also think it is okay if the MAC loses a few members. Yes, they have two divisions and they both have to be above 7 members for their AQs, but that is where the wiggle room sits. I think the idea of being so big is what has hurt the MAC over the years and is one of the biggest reasons (outside of the "haves and have nots" division amongst the schools) schools leave the conference. I don't think it would be a big deal if the conference was eight on each side (though, smaller sports could be affected) while maintaining it's football strength. (Being so big also results in a LOT of voices, opinions, and such all in the mix; that can end up bruising egos, feelings, and toes.)

BTW - the MAC has a "no financial penalty" clause for anyone leaving in less than two years. For many this might seem strange, but the real reason is so they can switch conference structures between the Commonwealth and Freedom easily. However, what it does create is that schools could jump at literally the last minute giving institutions plenty of time to debate any decisions to depart.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Landmark: Stevens (will leave it at that, as brief as I could be) :)

I agree with Pat .. I'd be shocked if this were to happen. First off, they just moved in the Freedom this academic year. If this was realistic, they would have gone straight to the Landmark. The LC also has to be open to the idea (they have been stuck with the idea they are okay in terms of numbers, which I think is a naive premise). Also, Stevens was courted to join the CAC before deciding to go to the Freedom (travel certainly a factor). All of that gives me conference in saying: Stevens isn't going to leave the Freedom suddenly especially for the Landmark. They were an original member of the Landmark and they were essentially booted by the rest of the presidents the moment it was to be released (there is a story about a presidential meeting that Stevens refused to participate in that was supposedly to discuss something about Stevens - different versions depending on who you talk to - and Stevens was punted). If they showed up in the Landmark, I would be shocked.

Landmark is more likely the destination of ... well look at schools and see who you think is a "like-minded" one and you can develop a list yourself. :) But again, they have got to get out of their heads that eight members in these very trying times (both because of COVID-19 and because of constant conference movement created basically by the Landmark) is where they need to sit. They missed a chance to grow to ten a few years ago, despite the efforts of their commissioner I believe, so they now have to be more proactive ... which I am not sure they can be without a kick in the rear.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
AEC: Would love to add Eastern

Yep ... and Arcadia would always have a place here if they wanted.

Goucher would also be a school the AEC wouldn't mind adding. However, for that to happen those in Towson need to think more about their student-athletes than the "glory" of finally figuring it out (despite numerous signs of more challenges) and winning somewhere in the distant future. (I have my personal opinions on this, but those who need to know somewhat know this already.)

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM

Last question, I'm pretty friendly with a couple of people down at Bob Jones and they have shown interest (I believe they are in the beginning stages at this moment) in becoming a part of NCAA D3, and like Lancaster Bible, it gives them the opportunity to stay in the NCCAA and get involved in their regional and national tournaments........unless they were to win their conference tournament and get an AQ. They are adding sports (baseball and softball were delayed by a year) and are looking at lacrosse and a couple of others. They are also in solid shape financially and have some nice facilities. Their gym is top notch (not in a Hope kind of way, nor in comparison to Wesley/Eastern/Manhattanville/DeSales either) and other non-athletic facilities are as well.

Dave, given where they are in Greenville, SC, is there a "natural" geographic conference for Bob Jones somewhere down the road?

I've been under the impression Bob Jones is headed to the USA South when they fully enter DIII. IF they are not actually brought into the USA South, the only place I think they land would be the CAC/ACAA merged group - at least until they get their footing and can get into either the splinter group of the USA South or the actual USA South (less likely).

The CAC/ACAA group will be that transitioning-like conference for a number of DIII members like Bob Jones (and one in the Philly area from what I've learned).

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Last question, do you see Hood as a long term member of the MAC, especially if they are eventually the only non-football member? I'm not hearing anything here, just a question.

I have no indications they are leaving. They have been rumored for awhile to depart back for the CAC, but I was told (not by those at Hood, though) there was no chance. They do seem like an outlier, but with the changes to the Commonwealth, that is less the case than it was previously. I don't know where else they would go as they are too far away for the CSAC and I don't think they fit with the AEC make-up.

So Hood remains in the Commonwealth is how I see it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
I'd be amused by Stevens coming to the Landmark. They were a founding member, and their president even leaked the announcement, and then Stevens left very early on in the process, allowing Scranton an opportunity to join.

Thanks Pat!! By the way.................Dave, you, Ryan, Gordon and Bob were awesome on the Hoopsville shows this year. That '5 box' is a biatch though. ;)


How do you mean "biatch?" It was less than FOX, MSNBC, and CNN puts on the air. LOL

Production wise, it was a challenge to say the least. LOL

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
Of course, none of this factors in what happens if we have a few MacMurray's out this way (I could see a couple of MAC schools follow suit). I also wonder what would happen in a Doomsday scenario, as the CDC is now saying that this will "be with us" for the next 18 - 24 months..........on top of others now jumping in Kirk Herbstreit's recent comments.

The financial hit in hoops without the conference(s) and the national tournament was one thing, a big thing.................but, IF there is no college football this coming season, the financial hit would be exponentially greater............AND the two combined would be massive!! The mother ship up at Happy Valley, like most big time college programs, is funded through football. What is the trickle down to all of the other (outside of men's basketball and wrestling) non-revenue generating sports? What is the impact on all of the numerous PSU satellite campus?

We might be heading down a Conference Roulette path in the next couple of years, the likes of which we've never seen.

I made a prediction at the beginning of the year that 6-12 schools would close ... but that was before COVID-19. Now I think it will be 15-20 at least. Yes. It will have an impact.

College football won't impact DIII all that much. Remember, there is NO money from D1/FBS football into the NCAA. Not a penny. That money goes to the conferences and schools involved (thus the complaints from the non-Power 5 that they keep getting left out of the playoff when they have legit teams to participate).

So, there is no money to be lost to the NCAA as a whole until we get back to next March Madness. They have already lost whatever money they were to lose per TV contacts and such. (Some of the deals with ESPN and others are also not huge money generators; more like trade outs like women's basketball).

And the PSU satellite's I think are budgeted on their own. I say that mainly because DI money can't cross over to other divisions. For example, JHU lacrosse money and budget cannot impact the DIII athletics (separate budget). Sure, there was a new field put down for lacrosse that impacts football, soccers, field hockey, etc., but have you noticed that was not a field designed primarily for football, but actually lacrosse? One of the rare field-turfs that doesn't have football as the primary design/lines.

I think DII and DIII survive a college football change more than others ... but we are four-plus months from pre-season even starting and give months from the first games ... let's get down the road a bit more before we jump on that bridge - there are others to cross first.

As for the Conference Roulette - we have been there for at least as long as the Landmark Conference has existed. Things had been relatively quiet and stable ahead of that move (small movements). The creation of the Landmark continues to ripple not only in the Atlantic/Mid-Atlantic, but has been rippling through the East, Northeast, Great Lakes, and South ... and the idea of these moves has been felt in the rest of the country.

Roulette is where we have been for nearly 15 years. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:18:54 PM
Oh, the idea that this COVID-19 will be with us for 18-24 months ... remember, H1N1 is still with us ten and a half years after it popped up. These viruses don't go away. We have to get the vaccines and anti-virals up along with treatments. Then the virus becomes a secondary thought once we have immunity and abilities to prevent and treat. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 02, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Not quite sure how I should take that. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on April 02, 2020, 09:40:49 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Dave - Thanks for the very thorough response!!

NEAC: To answer someone else's question here, the NEAC will go down to one division. Not everybody is happy, but they realize it's what has to happen, at least for now. I'm hearing that Lancaster Bible (after a couple of failed attempts, primarily self inflicted wounds though) is desperately looking to leave the NEAC. I also wonder if St. Mary's is regretting and/or can back out of their decision to move to the NEAC. It looks like there might be a better option or two for them when the conference roulette dust settles. The NEAC will be down to 8 with the 4 departing schools and if LBC is successful, now we're at 7. Morrisville would love out but there is no natural NY fit as of today. Does this eventually become the PA version of the WIAC or a modified WIAC, with primarily PSU satellite schools and a few other non-PSU schools? Sam Atkinson knows one hell of a lot more than me, although he probably can't go on the record at this point. My guess.....Lancaster Bible to the CSAC within 3 years.

When I made calls to SMC about their move to the NEAC, I was surprised at what I deemed to be either naive thinking or misunderstanding of the landscape. I don't think either they did their homework and research or they bought the spin being sent their way which was completely erronious. I can't remember what I have said on air or not, but they were under the impression the NEAC would be growing (knowing who would be leaving; already announced) back into a 12-member, division split conference (saving SMC eventually on travel since they wouldn't have to head north all that often). I was blunt: who do you think they are bringing in? -silence- Then a response about a few names. I shot down each one of them because I knew that IF those institutions were leaving their respective conferences, they would NOT be headed to the NEAC. That they had several stops along the way, as it where. (I am not going to name the institutions, because it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.) At the same time, I explained who else was going to leave in the near future - ones I knew and ones my hunch was stronger than just a guess.

One of those leaving will be LBC as you indicated. However, I think the move, likely to the CSAC (I can't say too much based on convos I've had off the record), will be in far less than three years. If it takes 18 months to announce I would be shocked. My feeling is a year at the most, but more likely by next fall. Granted, our current situation leaves things more up in the air and could change the timeline for a lot of things.

NEAC is running into problems that its last commissioner allowed to fester. First, far too big geographically (remember, miles in this area don't matter as much as traffic, time on the road, and weather). Plus, the NEAC has a number of institutions who are financially weak (i.e. Wells). I think they lose more of the privates and as I've indicated I think Morrisville State is looking for another option. They have to be after the others defected.

I also don't think there is any more PA state schools coming. I know you keep referencing the small, non-athletic or juco like state schools shifting to four-year and becoming DIII institutions, but every time I check this with those in the know throughout the state the more I think this isn't happening. If it where to develop, it is probably ten years from fruition and we would have to see some concrete moves well beforehand. Those moves just aren't showing up.

And I don't think you need to worry about Sam Atkinson ... Gallaudet has to figure out what they want to do moving forward and I don't think the NEAC is where they stay. They have tried for years to leave the conference to no avail, but that doesn't mean it stays that way.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
MAC: I've got several long time connections here and Dave's comments about a couple of proximate conferences being potential landing spots for departing schools makes sense given what I am hearing. Arcadia is an easy one, given that they had one foot out the door two years ago before backing out of a move (I forget if it was to the AEC or CSAC). DeSales has been quietly looking for a while and has actually been engaged in some quiet conversations with one conference in particular. They did a feasibility study looking at adding football and it was shot down. Messiah is also sniffing around, but does not know what would make better sense at this point. Lastly, the MAC is fully aware of their schools that are either looking around or have been approached and as a result.........they have a few potential "replacements" on speed dial so to speak. As an example, if King's/Wilkes/Miser all stay together in the MAC, the Christian school (whose name escapes me at the moment........right up the turnpike from those three) that recently added football is a target as well as another school or two that I won't mention here, but could be guessed quite easily. Two more MAC tidbits to watch out for, later rather than sooner, unless their is a lot of upheaval in the MAC..................and I will very briefly mention it below:

Much of what you indicate I have heard as well. I have wondered if DeSales was going to leave, but I also know they turned down overtures from the AEC group as it was forming. I don't know if they would look to that group again or not. I could see DeSales leaving ... and I could see them staying put especially since the Freedom is gaining strength.

Arcadia keeps popping up, but I'm just no longer biting on the bait. Yes, they were in the original group for the AEC. Then they were waiting as they found a new president. Then they were out. Then they were back in. Then they were waiting. Then they were back in. And then they were out at the last minute. I've been told they are frustrated at the spending in the conference, BUT they have also increased their own spending. Leaving would seem odd, but they are on my list of "possibles." I just have to see more real info before I am willing to buy into the rumors I hear from time to time.

I agree that if Messiah wants to leave, they have few options. Maybe the Landmark, but this is where the ego of the Landmark becomes a problem (as I've said in other places). The conference thinks their set-up is the best and they won't want someone powerful like Messiah coming in and rocking the boat. That said, they need a Messiah to help raise the profile of the conference because otherwise the Landmark will continue to remain in the middle of the road. They just haven't lived up to the expectations now ten years on - and many are admitting that publicly now.

I'm not buying the MAC has schools on speed-dial. First, they like to say this and said the same thing when the Landmark was formed ... but then took nearly the entire two-year grace period to find members to avoid any AQ problems. They had schools on speed dial, they forgot how to make calls. That shouldn't have taken two years. There are only a limited number remaining as well especially those who want to have a chance at conference glory ... rather than enter a jam packed group and try and fight through.

I also think it is okay if the MAC loses a few members. Yes, they have two divisions and they both have to be above 7 members for their AQs, but that is where the wiggle room sits. I think the idea of being so big is what has hurt the MAC over the years and is one of the biggest reasons (outside of the "haves and have nots" division amongst the schools) schools leave the conference. I don't think it would be a big deal if the conference was eight on each side (though, smaller sports could be affected) while maintaining it's football strength. (Being so big also results in a LOT of voices, opinions, and such all in the mix; that can end up bruising egos, feelings, and toes.)

BTW - the MAC has a "no financial penalty" clause for anyone leaving in less than two years. For many this might seem strange, but the real reason is so they can switch conference structures between the Commonwealth and Freedom easily. However, what it does create is that schools could jump at literally the last minute giving institutions plenty of time to debate any decisions to depart.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Landmark: Stevens (will leave it at that, as brief as I could be) :)

I agree with Pat .. I'd be shocked if this were to happen. First off, they just moved in the Freedom this academic year. If this was realistic, they would have gone straight to the Landmark. The LC also has to be open to the idea (they have been stuck with the idea they are okay in terms of numbers, which I think is a naive premise). Also, Stevens was courted to join the CAC before deciding to go to the Freedom (travel certainly a factor). All of that gives me conference in saying: Stevens isn't going to leave the Freedom suddenly especially for the Landmark. They were an original member of the Landmark and they were essentially booted by the rest of the presidents the moment it was to be released (there is a story about a presidential meeting that Stevens refused to participate in that was supposedly to discuss something about Stevens - different versions depending on who you talk to - and Stevens was punted). If they showed up in the Landmark, I would be shocked.

Landmark is more likely the destination of ... well look at schools and see who you think is a "like-minded" one and you can develop a list yourself. :) But again, they have got to get out of their heads that eight members in these very trying times (both because of COVID-19 and because of constant conference movement created basically by the Landmark) is where they need to sit. They missed a chance to grow to ten a few years ago, despite the efforts of their commissioner I believe, so they now have to be more proactive ... which I am not sure they can be without a kick in the rear.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
AEC: Would love to add Eastern

Yep ... and Arcadia would always have a place here if they wanted.

Goucher would also be a school the AEC wouldn't mind adding. However, for that to happen those in Towson need to think more about their student-athletes than the "glory" of finally figuring it out (despite numerous signs of more challenges) and winning somewhere in the distant future. (I have my personal opinions on this, but those who need to know somewhat know this already.)

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM

Last question, I'm pretty friendly with a couple of people down at Bob Jones and they have shown interest (I believe they are in the beginning stages at this moment) in becoming a part of NCAA D3, and like Lancaster Bible, it gives them the opportunity to stay in the NCCAA and get involved in their regional and national tournaments........unless they were to win their conference tournament and get an AQ. They are adding sports (baseball and softball were delayed by a year) and are looking at lacrosse and a couple of others. They are also in solid shape financially and have some nice facilities. Their gym is top notch (not in a Hope kind of way, nor in comparison to Wesley/Eastern/Manhattanville/DeSales either) and other non-athletic facilities are as well.

Dave, given where they are in Greenville, SC, is there a "natural" geographic conference for Bob Jones somewhere down the road?

I've been under the impression Bob Jones is headed to the USA South when they fully enter DIII. IF they are not actually brought into the USA South, the only place I think they land would be the CAC/ACAA merged group - at least until they get their footing and can get into either the splinter group of the USA South or the actual USA South (less likely).

The CAC/ACAA group will be that transitioning-like conference for a number of DIII members like Bob Jones (and one in the Philly area from what I've learned).

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Last question, do you see Hood as a long term member of the MAC, especially if they are eventually the only non-football member? I'm not hearing anything here, just a question.

I have no indications they are leaving. They have been rumored for awhile to depart back for the CAC, but I was told (not by those at Hood, though) there was no chance. They do seem like an outlier, but with the changes to the Commonwealth, that is less the case than it was previously. I don't know where else they would go as they are too far away for the CSAC and I don't think they fit with the AEC make-up.

So Hood remains in the Commonwealth is how I see it.

Dave, thanks for your thoughts, the time and the detail. It was excellent as a stand alone, but in the absence of actual sports..........it was poetry!!

Oh, the "biatch" was fully meant as a compliment...............and I loved how Ryan couldn't stop himself from laughing as someone would become a small box, oblong box and huge box!! :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 03, 2020, 01:49:58 PM
Yeah ... I finally decided Wirecast doesn't like me cropping and resizing the boxes, so while it doesn't look as good, I had to go with the normal shapes. I think I might spend some of my down time (and I have a lot of it right now) creating the look I want in photoshop and then just insert the videos behind essentially a cutout look. :)

Glad someone likes what I write. I did a bit less of of it this year for a lot of reasons one of them being I figured people didn't really read what I wrote anywhere I wrote it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: iwumichigander on April 03, 2020, 08:20:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 02, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Not quite sure how I should take that. ;)
Not even close D-Mac!  Must be a full page or more; and lacking length, must have obscure quotes that only a Sager could pull from the Netherlands of this site.  Lacks sufficient subtle sarcasm that readers after scrolling through subsequent posts go "Oh, I get that!"  But, very good try.  Keep practicing but then "It's only practice"
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: kiko on April 04, 2020, 02:50:47 AM
In addition, the word count on that post was only 2,332.  When you run this through Massey's secret formula, it translates into .532278 Sager units.  Gregory's replies typically extend to at least 3.14 Sager units as he runs circles around the original poster's logic.

Unfortunately, we also can't round this up and give credit for one Sager unit.  Everyone knows that Sager units are not rounded up, but rather carried out to the sixth decimal place (unless we are discussing Paradisio Dante, in which case they are carried out to nine decimals).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
I have no doubt that in the past, Sager has typed a message and when he hit "post" there was an error because he exceeded the character limit.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: augie77 on April 04, 2020, 12:06:48 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
I have no doubt that in the past, Sager has typed a message and when he hit "post" there was an error because he exceeded the character limit.

That's when his "posts" are turned into "chapters".   ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2020, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: kiko on April 04, 2020, 02:50:47 AM
In addition, the word count on that post was only 2,332.  When you run this through Massey's secret formula, it translates into .532278 Sager units.  Gregory's replies typically extend to at least 3.14 Sager units as he runs circles around the original poster's logic.

Unfortunately, we also can't round this up and give credit for one Sager unit.  Everyone knows that Sager units are not rounded up, but rather carried out to the sixth decimal place (unless we are discussing Paradisio Dante, in which case they are carried out to nine decimals).
Consulting the Official Handbook, they may be taken out to 6 or to 9 decimals. However Sager units are like Pool B and Pool C bids. They are truncated to the integer.
He gets a "0".   ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on April 11, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
Lancaster Bible is getting a little closer to an announcement regarding their departure from the NEAC. Men's Hoops also might have a VERY interesting transfer.............a higher level player, wanting a different type of education and environment. Those who remember their 27-1 season from a couple of years ago.............this guy is bigger and quite a bit better than CJ Dunston. He also might take a year away on a mission, which is also up in the air given the state of things right now. If Morrisville can find a dance partner, St. Mary's can quickly back out and if there aren't any other PSU schools looking to move (not the whole group.........just one or two to allow the NEAC to survive for now), this could be the end of the NEAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2020, 06:45:45 PM
Quote from: kiko on April 04, 2020, 02:50:47 AM
In addition, the word count on that post was only 2,332.  When you run this through Massey's secret formula, it translates into .532278 Sager units.  Gregory's replies typically extend to at least 3.14 Sager units as he runs circles around the original poster's logic.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f2/06/29/f206298a0d9383391716bd4e017b189c.jpg)

Quote from: kiko on April 04, 2020, 02:50:47 AMUnfortunately, we also can't round this up and give credit for one Sager unit.  Everyone knows that Sager units are not rounded up, but rather carried out to the sixth decimal place (unless we are discussing Paradisio Dante, in which case they are carried out to nine decimals).

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Ffc%2Ffc9b241d5c0d6c9be4893425ebd296a511c6a046e9ceddf1855f26f46a0264c1.jpg&hash=ea600ec8e9ccdc54d3ee6838c258ce09368acbed)

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
I have no doubt that in the past, Sager has typed a message and when he hit "post" there was an error because he exceeded the character limit.

(https://a.d-cd.net/65555ads-960.jpg)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 04, 2020, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: kiko on April 04, 2020, 02:50:47 AM
In addition, the word count on that post was only 2,332.  When you run this through Massey's secret formula, it translates into .532278 Sager units.  Gregory's replies typically extend to at least 3.14 Sager units as he runs circles around the original poster's logic.

Unfortunately, we also can't round this up and give credit for one Sager unit.  Everyone knows that Sager units are not rounded up, but rather carried out to the sixth decimal place (unless we are discussing Paradisio Dante, in which case they are carried out to nine decimals).
Consulting the Official Handbook, they may be taken out to 6 or to 9 decimals. However Sager units are like Pool B and Pool C bids. They are truncated to the integer.
He gets a "0".   ;)

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f5/42/56/f542565795a347dba4215c5963f1fb2d.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 16, 2020, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 11, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
Lancaster Bible is getting a little closer to an announcement regarding their departure from the NEAC.

So as I was saying ... ;)

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 11, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
If Morrisville can find a dance partner, St. Mary's can quickly back out and if there aren't any other PSU schools looking to move (not the whole group.........just one or two to allow the NEAC to survive for now), this could be the end of the NEAC.

Not sure where Morrisville goes, to be honest. I know the NAC would have been happy to have them, from what I was told (and it probably isn't much of a secret) the other SUNY's joining the NAC from the NEAC were NOT interested in having Morrisville be part of the package. Part of the reason they were leaving the NEAC was to get away from Morrisville (a slight version of Salisbury in comparison). So, where would Morrisville even go? Maybe the CAC? That isn't necessarily better than the NEAC in terms to scheduling and the like.

And what PSU schools would move? I said when PSU-Harrisburg left the CAC for the NEAC that the move made little sense for a lot of reasons (including improving their programs and now stepping from an ultra-competitive conference to the bottom of the heap). But there really aren't any other PSU's to consider at this point. They certainly aren't coming from the AMCC. PSU-Behrend is in Erie, so they are not helpful to the NEAC. PSU-Altoona is close, but why leave the AMCC for the NEAC? (Then again, why leave the CAC for the NEAC, Harrisburg?!

I think Morrisville is a bit hung out to dry right now. They are surrounded by conferences that are private-only other than the SUNYAC and I don't see any reason for the SUNYAC an 11th - not at least without having a 12th. It is possible, but there is a reason Morrisville hasn't been in the SUNYAC already.

And not sure what SMC may be thinking at this point. I repeat what I have said often: I don't think they really thought this move through. I think they saw a boat in the water they thought was a rescue from what seemed like the sinking CAC and in reality they got on a drifting boat that is now rudderless and without engine power. All while the CAC appears to be fixing their problems and making it to port. (I do realize the CAC commissioner is leaving, but I don't think that means anything in the grand scheme; the ACAA commissioner is still there and it means one less tough decision to be made.)

Anyway ... my two cents on a random Thursday during quarantine and D3 Week.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on April 17, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
Looks like both NVU campuses (Johnson and Lyndon) might be closing:

https://www.vpr.org/post/vermont-state-colleges-propose-closing-northern-vermont-university-randolph-campus
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 17, 2020, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on April 17, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
Looks like both NVU campuses (Johnson and Lyndon) might be closing:

https://www.vpr.org/post/vermont-state-colleges-propose-closing-northern-vermont-university-randolph-campus

Sad to hear. Good thing the NAC is bringing in those upstate NY ex-NEAC schools, they are now needed to preserve Pool A bids.

Sounds like Castleton will be bolstered by acquiring Johnson's and Lyndon's resources. I think they should re-brand themselves not too far down the line as Vermont State University.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2020, 08:53:27 PM
Just curious and need some insight in the Northeast and East Regions...

Which conferences might be left 5 years from now?

Might we see some mergers?

NECC?
NEAC?
NAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2020, 09:14:14 PM
Moved up...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray, IL (SLAIC) closes its doors.
Northern Vermont University - Lyndon and Johnson campuses (NAC) closing the doors.

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (MD) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
-----

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 11:43:16 AM
Vermont has only proposed closing those campuses so far, so I would say it's premature to list them here, even if only by 48 hours.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2020, 12:54:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2020, 08:53:27 PM
Just curious and need some insight in the Northeast and East Regions...

Which conferences might be left 5 years from now?

Might we see some mergers?

NECC?
NEAC?
NAC?

The NAC is getting bigger, not smaller. They're up to 12 now (10 if the Vermont campuses close).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 01:35:29 PM
Current stance, pending a possible update on Monday:

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray closes its doors.

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on April 18, 2020, 02:59:15 PM
If the NVU campuses indeed close, that leaves the NAC with five New York schools and five Maine schools, with a gap of 300 miles between the two groups.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 18, 2020, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on April 18, 2020, 02:59:15 PM
If the NVU campuses indeed close, that leaves the NAC with five New York schools and five Maine schools, with a gap of 300 miles between the two groups.

The entire plan was to split into divisions. If Vermont schools do indeed shutdown (pending the vote Monday), then the 5 and 5 is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. First, they could still go with an off-set schedule. Second, many of the schools were already going with the travel - next year would have been the first chance, I believe, they could have gone to the divisions. Third, there will likely be other schools that could join the NAC (due to further closings in New England and/or other schools possibly joining DIII) to help bolster the numbers.

No ... losing the Vermonts will not be helpful and will forgo years of work, but also not the end of the world. There are conferences in this country that would look at 300 miles and laugh at how short that distance is.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 03:41:25 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 18, 2020, 03:37:58 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on April 18, 2020, 02:59:15 PM
If the NVU campuses indeed close, that leaves the NAC with five New York schools and five Maine schools, with a gap of 300 miles between the two groups.

The entire plan was to split into divisions. If Vermont schools do indeed shutdown (pending the vote Monday), then the 5 and 5 is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. First, they could still go with an off-set schedule. Second, many of the schools were already going with the travel - next year would have been the first chance, I believe, they could have gone to the divisions. Third, there will likely be other schools that could join the NAC (due to further closings in New England and/or other schools possibly joining DIII) to help bolster the numbers.

No ... losing the Vermonts will not be helpful and will forgo years of work, but also not the end of the world. There are conferences in this country that would look at 300 miles and laugh at how short that distance is.

This is true, but 300 miles in that part of the world in the winter is a lot different than 300 flat miles on I-20.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 18, 2020, 03:50:16 PM
Not all those comparisons are in Texas. SUNYAC has some pretty narly travel. Longest trip in the MIAC is above that mileage. Trips in the ARC, especially to Neb. Wesleyan are long in some brutal winter weather. The NWC trips to both Whits are further than 300 miles. Even the NEAC has some far-flung travel (even when the current members leave). I am sure there may be others if I continue looking.

My point ... conferences have both been getting closer and getting further away. 300 miles isn't out of the norm. It is part of the life of a lot of conferences even in what is usually tough winter places.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 03:52:17 PM
Thanks for telling me about Minnesota. I hadn't heard!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2020, 04:56:33 PM

The NAC has been doing weekend trips every other year for the far-flung schools.  You get back to back home games every other year.  Not sure how that'll change with divisions or if they postpone going to divisions.  The trouble they've had is there really isn't an east East-West corridor in Northern New England - you generally have to go down to the Mass Pike and then back up again.

Not having the Vermont schools might actually make it easier.

I do wonder how the NECC will factor in.  They seem to have trouble keeping seven teams in business.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on April 19, 2020, 10:44:41 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 18, 2020, 03:50:16 PM
Longest trip in the MIAC is above that mileage.

An under the radar Concordia Moorhead shoutout on the multi-regional board! You love to see it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2020, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 03:52:17 PM
Thanks for telling me about Minnesota. I hadn't heard!

Trying to help those who may be reading and not as familiar. My comments are not usually targeted at just one person.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2020, 04:56:33 PM

The NAC has been doing weekend trips every other year for the far-flung schools.  You get back to back home games every other year.  Not sure how that'll change with divisions or if they postpone going to divisions.  The trouble they've had is there really isn't an east East-West corridor in Northern New England - you generally have to go down to the Mass Pike and then back up again.

Not having the Vermont schools might actually make it easier.

I do wonder how the NECC will factor in.  They seem to have trouble keeping seven teams in business.

They have been going through Canada based on what I've been told.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 19, 2020, 06:15:56 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2020, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 03:52:17 PM
Thanks for telling me about Minnesota. I hadn't heard!

Trying to help those who may be reading and not as familiar. My comments are not usually targeted at just one person.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2020, 04:56:33 PM

The NAC has been doing weekend trips every other year for the far-flung schools.  You get back to back home games every other year.  Not sure how that'll change with divisions or if they postpone going to divisions.  The trouble they've had is there really isn't an east East-West corridor in Northern New England - you generally have to go down to the Mass Pike and then back up again.

Not having the Vermont schools might actually make it easier.

I do wonder how the NECC will factor in.  They seem to have trouble keeping seven teams in business.

They have been going through Canada based on what I've been told.

well I'll be darned, Google Maps says you're right; it's a little longer in miles to go from the Maine schools through Quebec to SUNY Canton rather than US 2 through NH and VT, but considerably shorter time-wise.

If UMPI and SUNY Canton weren't in the same league and one was bracketed at the other in an NCAA tournament, it would be over the 500 mile threshold for a flight. I knew Presque Isle was way up there, but holy cow.

UMPI to SUNY Delhi will be 10 1/4 hours by bus; to Cazenovia will be 10 2/3 hours. Sounds like barrels of fun.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2020, 09:00:01 AM

I didn't ask this year,  but i know in prior seasons Canton did bout go through Canada as not every player had a passport. Maybe they've changed their minds.  UMPI tends to have a fair number of international students, so there could be visa issues there, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2020, 10:08:06 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2020, 09:00:01 AM

I didn't ask this year,  but i know in prior seasons Canton did bout go through Canada as not every player had a passport. Maybe they've changed their minds.  UMPI tends to have a fair number of international students, so there could be visa issues there, too.

I was going to mention that. Also, border crossings aren't the routine, wave-'em-through affair that they were twenty years ago. People I know who've crossed into Canada and back tell me that nowadays it can be time-consuming. That needs to be figured into any comparison of travel times between UMPI and SUNY-Canton.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2020, 12:03:58 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2020, 10:08:06 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2020, 09:00:01 AM

I didn't ask this year,  but i know in prior seasons Canton did bout go through Canada as not every player had a passport. Maybe they've changed their minds.  UMPI tends to have a fair number of international students, so there could be visa issues there, too.

I was going to mention that. Also, border crossings aren't the routine, wave-'em-through affair that they were twenty years ago. People I know who've crossed into Canada and back tell me that nowadays it can be time-consuming. That needs to be figured into any comparison of travel times between UMPI and SUNY-Canton.

UMPI is right next to Canada and the closest "big" city to Canton is Ottawa, so there's a good chance students have or get passports pretty regularly, but you certainly couldn't mandate it.  You also have to figure if they're chartering busses, international travel would bring extra requirements and expense on their end, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 20, 2020, 12:21:57 PM
I suppose the fact that it hasn't happened yet probably means the answer is "no", but would UMPI have the interest/ability to join Canada's USPORTS or CCAA? Road trips in the AUS (Atlantic University Sport) conference would be similar and in many cases shorter than the ones they have in the NAC. The biggest stumbling blocks would probably be the differences in sports offering and USPORTS partial scholarship model.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 20, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
the vote on whether to close NVU-Johnson and NVU-Lyndon (and Vermont Tech) has been delayed at least 1 week. Reaction has been overwhelmingly negative and state lawmakers want the VSCS to float them at least for 2020-21.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2020, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 20, 2020, 12:21:57 PM
I suppose the fact that it hasn't happened yet probably means the answer is "no", but would UMPI have the interest/ability to join Canada's USPORTS or CCAA? Road trips in the AUS (Atlantic University Sport) conference would be similar and in many cases shorter than the ones they have in the NAC. The biggest stumbling blocks would probably be the differences in sports offering and USPORTS partial scholarship model.

They play Canadian teams pretty regularly.  Less now that they're in a conference, but it is a very long drive up there.  It would be helpful if Maine-Ft Kent got their act together and sponsored enough sports to join the NCAA.  At least there would be a travel partner for weekend trips.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 20, 2020, 11:31:28 PM
Also... driver's licenses, especially with the Real ID aspects, can be accepted at the borders. You might get a few more questions, but you can use the driver's license if necessary. My parents live on the border of Maine and Canada (Down East, near Calais) and that is a backup plan when we visit if we haven't gotten the passports figured out.

Nowadays it is also easy to get a passport card, which is your passport but as a license. That was created when after 9/11 things got more difficult and border towns and states pointed out that forcing everyone to travel and carry their full-fledged passports was a bit cumbersome and not smart.

We are going to be re-upping all of our passports and for at least my wife and I we will also get the card.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 21, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=9627f/28be7sftqex75v5h.jpg)

It has been a few years since Division III found itself at a place where so many important decisions needed to be made along with other events needing time and attention. However, never in NCAA history have we found ourselves with winter championships cut short, no spring sports at all, and more questions than answers for what might happen with fall sports and beyond.

COVID-19 has certainly made it's mark.

However, the coronavirus isn't the only important item in front of Division III that requires attention and decisions. Expanding and realigning regions in all sports is nearing the end of a multi-year process. The NCAA's effort to revamp it's student-athlete rules with "Names, Images, Likeness" (NIL) is at critical juncture, especially in DIII. And with the shutdown of 'March Madness' brought with it a sudden budget deficit.

That's just what Division III is dealing with overall. Individual schools are fighting just to keep the doors open. That could result in cutting sports, teams, or other challenges. That could cause conferences to tackle sudden changes in membership or sports sponsorships.

And of course, student-athletes and their well-being is even more important.

Plenty to be thinking about in Division III even athletes and teams are not competing right now.

On this special Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) Podcast, NCAA Vice President for Division III Dan Dutcher joins Dave McHugh for an extensive, in-depth, and detailed conversation on the "State of DIII." Dutcher talks about how the decisions to shut down winter and spring championships came to be. Plus, how COVID-19 continues to impact the division, NCAA, schools, and conferences around the country. Dutcher explains how this year's DIII budget was impacted and if there will be any impact down the road. And Dutcher discusses how NIL is taking form in DIII along with the latest on Regional Realignment and Expansion.

You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3apilyF

Hoopsville broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.

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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jaller on April 22, 2020, 01:50:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2020, 11:43:16 AM
Vermont has only proposed closing those campuses so far, so I would say it's premature to list them here, even if only by 48 hours.

The Chancellor has withdrawn the proposal to close the colleges. Still some deep budgetary issues, but for now they remain open.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Another DIII will close it's doors and likely it's athletic teams (I can't imagine BC will continue to run athletics; I could be wrong for sure):

http://www.pmc.edu/pine-manor-college-and-boston-college-announce-institutional-agreement
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/13/metro/boston-college-will-take-over-pine-manor/

(I apologize as the Globe article might not be available for some.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 14, 2020, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Another DIII will close it's doors and likely it's athletic teams (I can't imagine BC will continue to run athletics; I could be wrong for sure):

http://www.pmc.edu/pine-manor-college-and-boston-college-announce-institutional-agreement
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/13/metro/boston-college-will-take-over-pine-manor/

(I apologize as the Globe article might not be available for some.)

Sadly, the calm before the storm!! Dave, GREAT May Part 1 podcast by the way!!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 15, 2020, 09:00:24 AM
The news of Pine Manor closing puts the ACAA-CAC conglomeration at just seven men's teams for 2021-22, and that's assuming Pratt stays on track with transition. Delhi will be a full member soon and maybe a candidate to leave for a more stable conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: huskereddy on May 15, 2020, 09:18:14 AM
I'd say six. Delhi's already out the door. Full member of the NAC as of last year (2019-20). Basketballs/softball presumably left in the ACAA one final year to sync up with NAC's scheduling rotation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 15, 2020, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: huskereddy on May 15, 2020, 09:18:14 AM
I'd say six. Delhi's already out the door. Full member of the NAC as of last year (2019-20). Basketballs/softball presumably left in the ACAA one final year to sync up with NAC's scheduling rotation.

Right.  They're still associate member in a few things, that's why they're still on the website.  I forgot.

So that means the "new" conference will only have six the first year they would be relegated to Pool B, which was the only reason for the merger in the first place.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 02:03:00 PM
I do know that the ACAA had others in waiting that planned to join DIII ... I need to look them up, so there were other schools in the pipeline.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 02:03:56 PM
Also remember, next year the CAC is still a Pool A school in sports like basketball. Their two-year grace period hasn't technically started. Adding the ACAA helps solidify numbers and push the two year grace period further down the road.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 14, 2020, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Another DIII will close it's doors and likely it's athletic teams (I can't imagine BC will continue to run athletics; I could be wrong for sure):

http://www.pmc.edu/pine-manor-college-and-boston-college-announce-institutional-agreement
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/13/metro/boston-college-will-take-over-pine-manor/

(I apologize as the Globe article might not be available for some.)

Sadly, the calm before the storm!! Dave, GREAT May Part 1 podcast by the way!!!

Well thank you!

Part 2 (working to finish now) should be pretty good as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 15, 2020, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 14, 2020, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Another DIII will close it's doors and likely it's athletic teams (I can't imagine BC will continue to run athletics; I could be wrong for sure):

http://www.pmc.edu/pine-manor-college-and-boston-college-announce-institutional-agreement
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/13/metro/boston-college-will-take-over-pine-manor/

(I apologize as the Globe article might not be available for some.)

Sadly, the calm before the storm!! Dave, GREAT May Part 1 podcast by the way!!!

Well thank you!

Part 2 (working to finish now) should be pretty good as well.

I just saw that it's out................some Friday night listening pleasure for me!! Thanks!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 15, 2020, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 14, 2020, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Another DIII will close it's doors and likely it's athletic teams (I can't imagine BC will continue to run athletics; I could be wrong for sure):

http://www.pmc.edu/pine-manor-college-and-boston-college-announce-institutional-agreement
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/13/metro/boston-college-will-take-over-pine-manor/

(I apologize as the Globe article might not be available for some.)

Sadly, the calm before the storm!! Dave, GREAT May Part 1 podcast by the way!!!

Well thank you!

Part 2 (working to finish now) should be pretty good as well.

I just saw that it's out................some Friday night listening pleasure for me!! Thanks!

You bet!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 20, 2020, 12:42:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 15, 2020, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 15, 2020, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 14, 2020, 09:03:16 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2020, 11:24:37 AM
Another DIII will close it's doors and likely it's athletic teams (I can't imagine BC will continue to run athletics; I could be wrong for sure):

http://www.pmc.edu/pine-manor-college-and-boston-college-announce-institutional-agreement
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/13/metro/boston-college-will-take-over-pine-manor/

(I apologize as the Globe article might not be available for some.)

Sadly, the calm before the storm!! Dave, GREAT May Part 1 podcast by the way!!!

Well thank you!

Part 2 (working to finish now) should be pretty good as well.

I just saw that it's out................some Friday night listening pleasure for me!! Thanks!

You bet!

You didn't disappoint! Great stuff Dave!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 12:43:31 PM
Thanks. Glad to hear.

Couple of items planned for June may be pretty interesting to hear as well. It has been an interesting off-season so far.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
You're not going to have any shortage of material, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
You're not going to have any shortage of material, that's for sure.

It seems to be true, this year. Last off-season I know I was trying to figure out shows (that ended up not happening due to other factors) already at this point.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 20, 2020, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
You're not going to have any shortage of material, that's for sure.

It seems to be true, this year. Last off-season I know I was trying to figure out shows (that ended up not happening due to other factors) already at this point.

Dave, do you have any idea about how many schools have firmed up a 2020-2021 schedule? I was surprised to see and hear that the D2 PSAC (I'm friends with the Millersville coach) has posted full schedules at this point. I know that it's all subject to (inevitable) change but was kind of shocked to see it posted nonetheless.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 03:22:21 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on May 20, 2020, 03:03:44 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
You're not going to have any shortage of material, that's for sure.

It seems to be true, this year. Last off-season I know I was trying to figure out shows (that ended up not happening due to other factors) already at this point.

Dave, do you have any idea about how many schools have firmed up a 2020-2021 schedule? I was surprised to see and hear that the D2 PSAC (I'm friends with the Millersville coach) has posted full schedules at this point. I know that it's all subject to (inevitable) change but was kind of shocked to see it posted nonetheless.

Usually as I understand it ... schedules are pretty firm by now, but having worked on the Hoopsville Classic in the past, I do know that not everyone is locked down. There are usually a number of schools still searching for a game here or there.

Higher divisions do seem to have things locked down much further in advance. DII being smaller I think that leads to schedules being buttoned up sooner. D1 there are so many reasons why schedules are done WELL in advance. DIII being so much larger it actually leaves more to be done.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: daddyhoops on May 20, 2020, 04:24:43 PM
Dave.. curious to hear your thoughts on if/when D3 sports return next season
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2020, 04:53:58 PM
I'm sure he'll save those for his podcast. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 26, 2020, 11:54:30 AM
Bumping this forward with very little confirmed in a land where uncertainty is king. Feel free to correct or confirm. :)

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.
Pine Manor (ACAA) will merge with Boston College after a two-year "teach out" period, though no word on athletics for 2020-21 season

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: DCAbloob on May 26, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
And we just got a big one with the remaining ACAA schools folding into the CAC which will be renamed.
https://cacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200420cw0nca
https://www.goacaa.org/general/2019-20/releases/20200525v3eli4
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 26, 2020, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 26, 2020, 11:54:30 AM
Bumping this forward with very little confirmed in a land where uncertainty is king. Feel free to correct or confirm. :)

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.
Pine Manor (ACAA) will merge with Boston College after a two-year "teach out" period, though no word on athletics for 2020-21 season

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

Off topic (for this board........but saw you were on here). Are you hearing anything (or would you be willing to take a guess?) about MAC football and the school that you do a great job for come mid-August? My insiders tell me that they have several impact transfers and some stud freshmen, should there be a season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 26, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
Quote from: DCAbloob on May 26, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
And we just got a big one with the remaining ACAA schools folding into the CAC which will be renamed.
https://cacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200420cw0nca
https://www.goacaa.org/general/2019-20/releases/20200525v3eli4

This "new" conference is a mess. I'd bet the eastern schools continue to look for other options in the years to come.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 26, 2020, 12:52:53 PM
JM:

No, I haven't heard anything but thanks for sharing.

And I agree with you on the new conference. Yikes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on May 26, 2020, 01:27:19 PM
Hmmmm
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 02:29:29 PM
On the other hand, today is a gold-star day for Ken Massey, as his computer algorithm is now an integral part of the official D3 landscape.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 26, 2020, 02:40:18 PM
Ha. True.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on May 26, 2020, 02:40:56 PM
Looks like they'll need to add another member with men's sports by 2023 if they want to keep their auto bids.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 03:58:15 PM
First off, I've been talking about this merger on this board, other boards, and on Hoopsville since January. I am sure many of you read those thoughts. It was coming ... just a matter of when they were going to announce it.

Yes, it might be a 'mess,' but it is necessary. CAC wants to hold on to it's AQs; ACAA wants access to AQs. It doesn't have to be pretty.

Also, they will take in other members as well. It was recently announced that Bob Jones, Warren Wilson, and Manor will officially start the transition to DIII. There has been speculation that Bob Jones and maybe Warren Wilson would join the USA South, but I am just not sure that will happen. There is nothing official and the USAS is WAY too big. I am not sure it can take more members. This new CAC would be perfect for Bob Jones and Warren Wilson until something more suitable comes along (like the USA South finally splits, which as of last December had cooled in terms of happening).

Manor I'm told was already in talks with the ACAA on joining ... so I expect to see their name in this new group rather soon. I think a lot of other conferences will want to see new DIII members join a conference like the new CAC before then joining another conference. That allows other conferences not to have to baby sit and takes them when the schools and departments are a bit more DIII-mature.

As for a new name for the CAC ... interesting. Not sure what they will call themselves. I'll miss the CAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on May 26, 2020, 04:10:53 PM
January? Were you asleep in November and December? Hahahaha.... ;D (Joking).

The word was spreading around that time. Even hit the newspapers in mid December. But all they had was a few lines here and there. I appreciated your comments and thoughts as they were more detailed and informative.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 04:14:28 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on May 26, 2020, 04:10:53 PM
January? Were you asleep in November and December? Hahahaha.... ;D (Joking).

The word was spreading around that time. Even hit the newspapers in mid December. But all they had was a few lines here and there. I appreciated your comments and thoughts as they were more detailed and informative.

I knew about a LOT for the last few years. I had heard about this idea around mid-December as well, but I had it confirmed through sources in mid-January that it was approved by both conferences (as much as the CAC would like to spin this as new members, it is a merger). We reported on that confirmation in January on the show. We have talked about it on the show ever since. Not one call or email telling us our information was inaccurate. :) I do my best to only report what I am absolutely sure about through confirmed sources.

BTW the mid-December story was the former CAC member indicating he had six members in mind for the conference. I knew who he was talking about within a few days, but nothing we could officially report. Just hint about.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 03:58:15 PMIt was recently announced that Bob Jones, Warren Wilson, and Manor will officially start the transition to DIII. There has been speculation that Bob Jones and maybe Warren Wilson would join the USA South, but I am just not sure that will happen. There is nothing official and the USAS is WAY too big. I am not sure it can take more members. This new CAC would be perfect for Bob Jones and Warren Wilson until something more suitable comes along (like the USA South finally splits, which as of last December had cooled in terms of happening).

Manor I'm told was already in talks with the ACAA on joining ... so I expect to see their name in this new group rather soon. I think a lot of other conferences will want to see new DIII members join a conference like the new CAC before then joining another conference. That allows other conferences not to have to baby sit and takes them when the schools and departments are a bit more DIII-mature.

As for a new name for the CAC ... interesting. Not sure what they will call themselves.

How about the Nursery Conference?  ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on May 26, 2020, 08:47:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 03:58:15 PM
First off, I've been talking about this merger on this board, other boards, and on Hoopsville since January. I am sure many of you read those thoughts. It was coming ... just a matter of when they were going to announce it.

Yes, it might be a 'mess,' but it is necessary. CAC wants to hold on to it's AQs; ACAA wants access to AQs. It doesn't have to be pretty.

Also, they will take in other members as well. It was recently announced that Bob Jones, Warren Wilson, and Manor will officially start the transition to DIII. There has been speculation that Bob Jones and maybe Warren Wilson would join the USA South, but I am just not sure that will happen. There is nothing official and the USAS is WAY too big. I am not sure it can take more members. This new CAC would be perfect for Bob Jones and Warren Wilson until something more suitable comes along (like the USA South finally splits, which as of last December had cooled in terms of happening).

Manor I'm told was already in talks with the ACAA on joining ... so I expect to see their name in this new group rather soon. I think a lot of other conferences will want to see new DIII members join a conference like the new CAC before then joining another conference. That allows other conferences not to have to baby sit and takes them when the schools and departments are a bit more DIII-mature.

As for a new name for the CAC ... interesting. Not sure what they will call themselves. I'll miss the CAC.

I know a couple of folks down at Bob Jones. The gym is sweet (not "Hope sweet"........but what is?) and they have some $$$$$.They have hosted a lot of NCCAA regional and national tournaments. The production quality. both audio and video, is outstanding!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 26, 2020, 10:03:45 PM
so if I'm reading both CAC and ACAA standings pages correctly, for AQ sports this is what we're left with, pending what Dave said somewhere about leagues being able to fall below 7 and not have to worry about losing Pool A...

FALL
Field Hockey - 2-year grace period was ending anyway and no newbies play. By Fall '21 only SAL/CNU/UMW will be left. Pool B.
Women's Soccer - up to 10 this fall, then down to 8 after that. A bid safe.
Volleyball - up to 10 this fall, then 8, A bid safe. **I think Pine Manor is dropping volleyball immediately.**
Men's Soccer - up to 10, then down to 7. A bid safe, but barely.

WINTER
Men's Basketball - up to 9, then down to 6. They re-start the clock on the grace period and would be Pool B in '22-23. '23-24.
Women's Basketball - up to 10, then down to 7. A bid narrowly stays safe.

SPRING
Baseball - next year would be year 2 of the grace period with Pine Manor replacing York as team #6. It sounds like Finlandia is staying in the WIAC. Would go to Pool B in '22 as only 3 teams will be left.
Softball - next year would be year 2 of the grace period, looks like they'll only have 6 since evidently PMC isn't going to continue with softball. Pool B in '22 with only 5 teams remaining.
Men's and Women's Lacrosse - see Field Hockey, except they keep A bid next spring and set to go into B in '22.
Men's Golf - clock starts with York gone and no newbies participating. B in '23.
Women's Golf - never had the A bid to begin with.
Men's Tennis - gets back to 7 teams next year, clock re-starts when they drop to 5 in spring '22. Pool in '24.
Women's Tennis - gets back up to 8 teams next year, but then drop to 6, which would send them to Pool B in '24.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 27, 2020, 12:42:09 AM
So, if they rebrand, don't they lose their AQ? When the LMC and the NIIC combined, they lost their AQ when they rebranded as the (now) NACC, correct? What's the difference?

Also, I think it's ridiculous to have a conference where teams don't even play a conference schedule...and on top of that, they keep their AQ simply by having a 4-team conference tournament. That really seems like cheating the system, IMO.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 27, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on May 27, 2020, 07:53:59 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 04:14:28 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on May 26, 2020, 04:10:53 PM
January? Were you asleep in November and December? Hahahaha.... ;D (Joking).

The word was spreading around that time. Even hit the newspapers in mid December. But all they had was a few lines here and there. I appreciated your comments and thoughts as they were more detailed and informative.

I knew about a LOT for the last few years. I had heard about this idea around mid-December as well, but I had it confirmed through sources in mid-January that it was approved by both conferences (as much as the CAC would like to spin this as new members, it is a merger). We reported on that confirmation in January on the show. We have talked about it on the show ever since. Not one call or email telling us our information was inaccurate. :) I do my best to only report what I am absolutely sure about through confirmed sources.

BTW the mid-December story was the former CAC member indicating he had six members in mind for the conference. I knew who he was talking about within a few days, but nothing we could officially report. Just hint about.

It was indeed a poorly kept secret. Even the local newspaper guys reported in December that it was the ACAA. And what do they know?   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on May 27, 2020, 07:54:51 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 03:58:15 PMIt was recently announced that Bob Jones, Warren Wilson, and Manor will officially start the transition to DIII. There has been speculation that Bob Jones and maybe Warren Wilson would join the USA South, but I am just not sure that will happen. There is nothing official and the USAS is WAY too big. I am not sure it can take more members. This new CAC would be perfect for Bob Jones and Warren Wilson until something more suitable comes along (like the USA South finally splits, which as of last December had cooled in terms of happening).

Manor I'm told was already in talks with the ACAA on joining ... so I expect to see their name in this new group rather soon. I think a lot of other conferences will want to see new DIII members join a conference like the new CAC before then joining another conference. That allows other conferences not to have to baby sit and takes them when the schools and departments are a bit more DIII-mature.

As for a new name for the CAC ... interesting. Not sure what they will call themselves.

How about the Nursery Conference?  ;)

Love it. Or the Incubator Athletic Conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 27, 2020, 08:45:53 AM
I'm sure I could find similar dumb responses on Twitter, but it's funny to see how many people commenting on each CAC school athletics Facebook page definitely did not read the article.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 27, 2020, 12:42:09 AM
So, if they rebrand, don't they lose their AQ? When the LMC and the NIIC combined, they lost their AQ when they rebranded as the (now) NACC, correct? What's the difference?

Also, I think it's ridiculous to have a conference where teams don't even play a conference schedule...and on top of that, they keep their AQ simply by having a 4-team conference tournament. That really seems like cheating the system, IMO.

They don't even need the conference tournament to keep the autobid. The NCAA allows every league to determine its own method of selecting its automatic representative to the national tournament. Remember, the UAA doesn't even have a conference tournament.

If it suited the CAC's fancy, the league could even let Ken Massey's computer algorithm select their AQ. Heck, they can blindfold Ken Massey and let him pick the AQ out of a hat if they want. By the NCAA's own rules, that's the league's right.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sncdangler on May 27, 2020, 10:31:33 AM
Rumor and innuendo on the street have St. Scholastica becoming a full MIAC member. Anyone hear anything about this?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 27, 2020, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 27, 2020, 12:42:09 AM
So, if they rebrand, don't they lose their AQ? When the LMC and the NIIC combined, they lost their AQ when they rebranded as the (now) NACC, correct? What's the difference?

Also, I think it's ridiculous to have a conference where teams don't even play a conference schedule...and on top of that, they keep their AQ simply by having a 4-team conference tournament. That really seems like cheating the system, IMO.

They don't even need the conference tournament to keep the autobid. The NCAA allows every league to determine its own method of selecting its automatic representative to the national tournament. Remember, the UAA doesn't even have a conference tournament.

If it suited the CAC's fancy, the league could even let Ken Massey's computer algorithm select their AQ. Heck, they can blindfold Ken Massey and let him pick the AQ out of a hat if they want. By the NCAA's own rules, that's the league's right.

I think they should hold all conference tournaments via Zoom, head coaches will face off in best-of-seven Rock Paper Scissors battles, spelling bees, and pub trivia. Best combined score wins the Pool A berth!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 27, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 26, 2020, 10:03:45 PM
so if I'm reading both CAC and ACAA standings pages correctly, for AQ sports this is what we're left with, pending what Dave said somewhere about leagues being able to fall below 7 and not have to worry about losing Pool A...

FALL
Field Hockey - 2-year grace period was ending anyway and no newbies play. By Fall '21 only SAL/CNU/UMW will be left. Pool B.
Women's Soccer - up to 10 this fall, then down to 8 after that. A bid safe.
Volleyball - up to 10 this fall, then 8, A bid safe. **I think Pine Manor is dropping volleyball immediately.**
Men's Soccer - up to 10, then down to 7. A bid safe, but barely.

WINTER
Men's Basketball - up to 9, then down to 6. They re-start the clock on the grace period and would be Pool B in '22-23.
Women's Basketball - up to 10, then down to 7. A bid narrowly stays safe.

SPRING
Baseball - next year would be year 2 of the grace period with Pine Manor replacing York as team #6. It sounds like Finlandia is staying in the WIAC. Would go to Pool B in '22 as only 3 teams will be left.
Softball - next year would be year 2 of the grace period, looks like they'll only have 6 since evidently PMC isn't going to continue with softball. Pool B in '22 with only 5 teams remaining.
Men's and Women's Lacrosse - see Field Hockey, except they keep A bid next spring and set to go into B in '22.
Men's Golf - clock starts with York gone and no newbies participating. B in '23.
Women's Golf - never had the A bid to begin with.
Men's Tennis - gets back to 7 teams next year, clock re-starts when they drop to 5 in spring '22. Pool in '24.
Women's Tennis - gets back up to 8 teams next year, but then drop to 6, which would send them to Pool B in '24.

You have men's basketball I think wrong ... when the grace period restarts - it restarts at two years. So they are fine for 20-21, then the clock would start for 21-22 meaning they would go through 22-23 with the Pool A before then going to Pool B for 23-24.

And with the Pool Bs the way the CAC as itself, they are going to gobble that bid up. Those teams are likely getting in just a step sooner than they normally do. And those who don't get the Pool B will be strong Pool C contenders.

But also keep this in mind: they will gain more members. As I think I mentioned earlier, there are three schools in the DIII pipeline now that easily could become even temporary members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson, and Manor. I have it on good authority that Manor had been talking to the ACAA already. I don't think Bob Jones and Warren Wilson have a conference home as of yet - especially the USA South which just can't take any more growth realistically. Thus that could be three more members and the rule now allows those members to count as conference members far sooner than in the past (almost immediately, but I have screwed that up of late; reclassifying members count as core as of January for example). So the numbers would increase in a lot of sports.

Plus, the conference is going to end up being the home for a number of schools transitioning into DIII or need to leave their conference (I am not saying this would happen, but I do wonder if Morrisville State has enough of the NEAC, for example, and joins this group; not necessarily a great fit, but things like that could happen). So these numbers are going to fluctuate often and they may be in and out of the grace period clock (as long as they don't dip below four members per sport) often.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 27, 2020, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 27, 2020, 12:42:09 AM
So, if they rebrand, don't they lose their AQ? When the LMC and the NIIC combined, they lost their AQ when they rebranded as the (now) NACC, correct? What's the difference?

Also, I think it's ridiculous to have a conference where teams don't even play a conference schedule...and on top of that, they keep their AQ simply by having a 4-team conference tournament. That really seems like cheating the system, IMO.

They don't even need the conference tournament to keep the autobid. The NCAA allows every league to determine its own method of selecting its automatic representative to the national tournament. Remember, the UAA doesn't even have a conference tournament.

If it suited the CAC's fancy, the league could even let Ken Massey's computer algorithm select their AQ. Heck, they can blindfold Ken Massey and let him pick the AQ out of a hat if they want. By the NCAA's own rules, that's the league's right.

I think they should hold all conference tournaments via Zoom, head coaches will face off in best-of-seven Rock Paper Scissors battles, spelling bees, and pub trivia. Best combined score wins the Pool A berth!

Ha! But they should use Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock instead ... fewer tiebreakers necessary.

(https://e7803e84-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/boredombuster1224/games/rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock/rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock-chart.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cqkDqbTQTscXuh5dYgsYhJiwc7yA5YspDNvj_lzpdyZW2IovT0rEyouEBhM9BYAblwPhmJPe6LKmrmQngXX_PHtN8SF5FhsnZVUnYD_sxd9pbEQC7OAU1XYJNLdYl3JqeqEjpxBRCBoVX5lU3SkIL0Cog5nhn5zkaPu01ctCf0edI6OLtOvLpnc-ApR7HtQO_5AT3yG5D-aqvhzfoyhzcDV_L6ILNfDypwqLjJUk6IZoXmn1s44XBjrjhmrT-7xZKkNslbo_hBAIkrCa6yW-vblQ2rGEUky6qWRP1jGNmTiGkWnQiLifktXwoiCHrsytVeahEmE&attredirects=0)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 27, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
you're right Dave, I mistyped in the MBB segment, I'll fix that, thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 27, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
St. Scholastica from UMAC to MIAC in 2021-22. Macalester also returning to the fold in football.

https://www.miacathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200526avs20a
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: sncdangler on May 27, 2020, 10:31:33 AM
Rumor and innuendo on the street have St. Scholastica becoming a full MIAC member. Anyone hear anything about this?

Good scoop. You actually beat the MIAC press release by a few hours.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 27, 2020, 09:03:58 PM
I didn't answer the post because I wasn't sure what point over the past 15 years Dangler was referring to. Longest courtship ever.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 27, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC.

So the LMC and the NIIC combined, with a different conference name. But the CAC takes all the ACAA teams and changes the name, but that's different somehow?

Also, you can't compare what the CAC/ACAA "merger" as "Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC" because the ARC just changed their name, they didn't add a different conference's members.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 28, 2020, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 27, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC.

So the LMC and the NIIC combined, with a different conference name. But the CAC takes all the ACAA teams and changes the name, but that's different somehow?

Also, you can't compare what the CAC/ACAA "merger" as "Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC" because the ARC just changed their name, they didn't add a different conference's members.

I don't know when that other merger occurred, but were the LMC and NIIC both Pool A conferences at the time? It sounds like neither of them were so pouring one group into the other would not have had the desired effect.

In the present, the CAC, which has A bids, absorbs the ACAA members to keep those A bids where possible, the ACAA ceases to exist, and then at some point down the road the CAC will change its name to reflect its new makeup. I guess I don't see what's supposedly so shady about this.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 28, 2020, 12:29:42 PM
Maybe it's a governance thing, like the NACC creation involved the creation of a new entity while the CAC-ACAA move involves one swallowing the other?

I don't know, just making a guess.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 28, 2020, 12:51:46 PM
There's two definitions of the word merger:

1. a statutory combination of two or more corporations by the transfer of the properties to one surviving corporation.

2. any combination of two or more business enterprises into a single enterprise.

The first definition describes what just happened with the CAC and ACAA. The CAC absorbed the ACAA. The CAC still exists as a recognized entity; it's simply grown larger by swallowing another entity, much as a boa constrictor that swallows a mouse is still the same boa constrictor, only bigger. The world of sports is filled with examples of this type of merger. The AFL merged into the NFL, which remained the NFL; the WHA merged into the NHL, which remained the NHL; and the ABA merged into the NBA, which remained the NBA.

The second definition describes what happened when the LMC and the NIIC combined to form the NACC. Two entities disappeared, and a brand-new one was created. In an effort to be fair to the schools in each of those two leagues, the old names, charters, offices, bylaws, etc., were abandoned and new ones encompassing all of the members of the new league were created. This is more like combining a can of red paint and a can of blue paint to create two cans of purple paint. There is no more red paint to be found anywhere in those two cans, nor is there any blue paint. It's all purple paint. And the NCAA says, "Well, we will let you use the red paint in March, and we'll let you use the blue paint in March, but if you want to use purple paint you'll have to wait two years until we have furniture to match it." ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on May 28, 2020, 01:13:59 PM
Why was the NACC able to inherit the IBFC's auto bid in football without going through the waiting period?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 28, 2020, 02:23:14 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 27, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC.

So the LMC and the NIIC combined, with a different conference name. But the CAC takes all the ACAA teams and changes the name, but that's different somehow?

Also, you can't compare what the CAC/ACAA "merger" as "Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC" because the ARC just changed their name, they didn't add a different conference's members.

Well, they added Nebraska Wesleyan.  A lot of the New England conference swip swap members all the time - if they also changed names at the same time, would you want them to go back to square one for AQs?  I don't see the problem with this.

The NCAA recognizes conferences - once you have recognition, you're eligible for AQs when you qualify.  I don't believe there's a waiting period if schools within an existing conference add sports in sufficient numbers to get an AQ, is there?

It's all about the official recognition of the league.  That's why they're trying to make it a little more difficult for conferences to gain recognition - and likely why the ACAA schools jumped at this chance to get it immediately.

I don't follow football, so I don't know all the specifics, but I know the CCC merged with a football only conference a few years back (one that consisted almost entirely of CCC schools), and just assumed the football AQ.  I'm guessing this was because the CCC was already a recognized conference, so once they had seven schools offering the sport, they got the AQ right away.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: huskereddy on May 28, 2020, 03:37:38 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on May 28, 2020, 01:13:59 PM
Why was the NACC able to inherit the IBFC's auto bid in football without going through the waiting period?
Wizards of the board feel free to pick me apart here, but the NACC didn't technically inherit the Illini-Badger AQ. Since the NACC was formed under a new charter, it had to wait two years across the board for AQs (06/07, 07/08), which it did. Once the fall of 2008 rolled around, they had eight core members sponsoring football - five in the IBFC plus Rockford (UMAC), WLC (MIAA) and Maranatha - so they brought football under their own umbrella and could be awarded an AQ in their own right. I think they've done this since with men's volleyball and men's and women's lacrosse.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 28, 2020, 02:23:14 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 27, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC.

So the LMC and the NIIC combined, with a different conference name. But the CAC takes all the ACAA teams and changes the name, but that's different somehow?

Also, you can't compare what the CAC/ACAA "merger" as "Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC" because the ARC just changed their name, they didn't add a different conference's members.

Well, they added Nebraska Wesleyan.  A lot of the New England conference swip swap members all the time - if they also changed names at the same time, would you want them to go back to square one for AQs?  I don't see the problem with this.

The NCAA recognizes conferences - once you have recognition, you're eligible for AQs when you qualify.  I don't believe there's a waiting period if schools within an existing conference add sports in sufficient numbers to get an AQ, is there?

I don't follow football, so I don't know all the specifics, but I know the CCC merged with a football only conference a few years back (one that consisted almost entirely of CCC schools), and just assumed the football AQ.  I'm guessing this was because the CCC was already a recognized conference, so once they had seven schools offering the sport, they got the AQ right away.

CCC's situation is a little different. They assumed administrative operations of the NEFC and rebranded as CCC Football while retaining the NEFC charter. There are only six core CCC members sponsoring football (Becker/Husson are associates) and, I believe, the magic number is seven core members (plus some time element that escapes me) to be able to receive an AQ while bypassing the waiting period.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 28, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 28, 2020, 02:23:14 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 27, 2020, 02:04:00 AM
Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC.

So the LMC and the NIIC combined, with a different conference name. But the CAC takes all the ACAA teams and changes the name, but that's different somehow?

Also, you can't compare what the CAC/ACAA "merger" as "Same conference, new name. They keep the AQ, like the ARC" because the ARC just changed their name, they didn't add a different conference's members.

Well, they added Nebraska Wesleyan. 

They added one team and that was even before they changed the name.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2020, 03:18:48 PM
GT - I call what the CAC and ACAA are doing as a "merger" as it brings the entirety of both conferences together into one. However, as I have said from the get-go, they are doing it under the umbrella of the CAC - thus the CAC calls it an expansion (the ACAA dissolves and it's members are welcomed into the CAC). This happens in business all the time. Burger King bought Tim Hortons, but Hortons was the entity they used for paperwork so that it could be located in Canada and not the US (tax reasons and such).

The ACAA and CAC have come together, but under the CAC umbrella so they can keep the status of the CAC intact. They will later change the name, but name changes happen all of the time. It is still the CAC board, office, etc. that is in charge of this group with the ACAA elements going away.

As long as there are four core members of the CAC still around, this is fine ... and there are as they did it for the coming academic year. This would be a VERY different conversation if we were a year from now. The CAC's core would have been down to three and basically the two groups would have been starting from zero.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 29, 2020, 07:22:20 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2020, 03:18:48 PM
GT - I call what the CAC and ACAA are doing as a "merger" as it brings the entirety of both conferences together into one. However, as I have said from the get-go, they are doing it under the umbrella of the CAC - thus the CAC calls it an expansion (the ACAA dissolves and it's members are welcomed into the CAC). This happens in business all the time. Burger King bought Tim Hortons, but Hortons was the entity they used for paperwork so that it could be located in Canada and not the US (tax reasons and such).

Yep. It's a merger, but "expansion" is a more business-friendly term than "merger," because it implies the organic growth of a healthy, burgeoning company rather than the mere acquisition of another brand's assets as the result of a deal cooked up in some boardroom.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 01, 2020, 12:13:16 AM
Thanks. As I asked all along, I just wanted to know what the difference was between the ACAA/CAC merger and the LMC/NIIC merger was. It seems it's been answered. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 01, 2020, 12:22:05 AM
Bumping this forward with very little confirmed in a land where uncertainty is king. Feel free to correct or confirm. :)

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.
Pine Manor (ACAA) will merge with Boston College after a two-year "teach out" period, though no word on athletics for 2020-21 season

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???


Quote from: UWSAlum on May 28, 2020, 10:49:21 AM
Most people have probably heard, but St. Scholastica to join the MIAC for 2021-2022 season. Macalester coming back for football as well.

https://csssaints.com/news/2020/5/27/general-st-scholastica-to-join-the-minnesota-intercollegiate-athletic-conference.aspx

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 01, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
Thanks! So now we have...

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)

*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pine Manor joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger*
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

* Pine Manor announced that it will close its doors and be absorbed into Boston College after a two-year "teach out period." The CAC-ACAA press release indicates Pine Manor will compete in the CAC in 2020-21 and then "depart the conference (https://www.cacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200420cw0nca)," assumedly with athletics closing before 2021-22.

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 01, 2020, 12:02:55 PM
With Dean's departure from the NECC, the NECC men have only 6 teams in 2020-21.

Any news of dominos shuffling around the NECC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 01, 2020, 12:02:55 PM
With Dean's departure from the NECC, the NECC men have only 6 teams in 2020-21.

Any news of dominos shuffling around the NECC?

I have had plenty of talks with individuals trying to piece things together. I think some of this is up in the air due to the expected closings of schools - just the unknown of exactly why they will be. (There are certainly schools on everyone's radars, but as McMurray and Urbana [DII] has shown there can be some that are on no one's radar).

I could envision the NECC splitting and those schools going in different directions. The NAC, GNAC, etc. could be easy landing places - though, I would feel bad for schools like Eastern Nazarene who just settled in to the NECC.

I could also envision other conferences splitting up and the NECC being the beneficiary of those moves.

I think we need to wait and see a bit. Even ideas I am hearing now could change six ways to Sunday in the next week, month, year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:42:04 PM
Another item - D'Youville is planning to go to Division II. We are just waiting for DII to formally accept them. That is usually a early to mid-July decision if memory serves.

It would be for the coming academic year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2020, 01:42:13 PM
MacMurray definitely was on the radar for this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on June 02, 2020, 10:49:49 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:22:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 01, 2020, 12:02:55 PM
With Dean's departure from the NECC, the NECC men have only 6 teams in 2020-21.

Any news of dominos shuffling around the NECC?

I have had plenty of talks with individuals trying to piece things together. I think some of this is up in the air due to the expected closings of schools - just the unknown of exactly why they will be. (There are certainly schools on everyone's radars, but as McMurray and Urbana [DII] has shown there can be some that are on no one's radar).

I could envision the NECC splitting and those schools going in different directions. The NAC, GNAC, etc. could be easy landing places - though, I would feel bad for schools like Eastern Nazarene who just settled in to the NECC.

I could also envision other conferences splitting up and the NECC being the beneficiary of those moves.

I think we need to wait and see a bit. Even ideas I am hearing now could change six ways to Sunday in the next week, month, year.

I'm kind of surprised that we haven't heard anything about a couple of other school shutting it down (i.e. Wells) now that we've flipped the calendar to June. I do wonder how things are going down in Dover with Wesley. Is the St. Leo thing a done deal and does that save them for the foreseeable future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2020, 02:19:10 PM
The deadline for many colleges was June 1 ... it still takes a bit of time to take in the info they have received, make some last minute calls to see if they can convince people to say yes, etc.

I would expect next week may be the first signs of schools making decisions - if there are any to be made.

Wells made a statement awhile back of their situation moving forward. I need to check on that. Wesley won't admit that St. Leo's is the savior, but everything I've been told it is them ... and I have heard nothing that has changed anything. Doesn't mean that is still the plan, I just haven't heard otherwise.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 09, 2020, 12:45:31 PM
Iowa Wesleyan leaving the SLIAC next summer, planning to return to the NAIA.

https://sliac.org/general/2019-20/releases/20200604m3ykpi
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on June 09, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
If I'm counting correctly, this is going to drop the UMAC football conference down to six members.

Crown
MN-Morris
Martin Luther
Northwestern-STP
Westminster
Greenville
MacMurray closed
St. Scholastica headed to MIAC
Iowa Wesleyan headed to NAIA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 09, 2020, 02:01:44 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on June 09, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
If I'm counting correctly, this is going to drop the UMAC football conference down to six members.

Crown
MN-Morris
Martin Luther
Northwestern-STP
Westminster
Greenville
MacMurray closed
St. Scholastica headed to MIAC
Iowa Wesleyan headed to NAIA

Correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: RFMichigan on June 09, 2020, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on June 09, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
If I'm counting correctly, this is going to drop the UMAC football conference down to six members.

Crown
MN-Morris
Martin Luther
Northwestern-STP
Westminster
Greenville
MacMurray closed
St. Scholastica headed to MIAC
Iowa Wesleyan headed to NAIA

I'm wondering if there is a better chance of the UMAC picking up a school to get back to seven members or the remaining schools find other conferences for football. The Minnesota schools may have better options (Midwest?) but Greenville and Westminster are really geographic outliers in this scenario. Perhaps Greenville could go the way of their SLIAC brother, Eureka, and try to get into the NACC as an associate member for football, but what will Westminster do? ARC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 09, 2020, 05:22:45 PM
That is more a football discussion, so you will probably find better results on the football boards for that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 17, 2020, 06:38:45 PM
The plan for UST to jump to D1 has been kind of approved ... it is now up to the entire Division I at the NCAA Convention in January.

UST could apply for a waiver to skip the exploratory year, but this puts a lot of things up in the air especially scheduling for 21-22 and beyond.

Not sure how UST feels about this as of yet: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-proposes-pathway-diii-schools-become-di-members
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 17, 2020, 06:55:38 PM
I honestly think this can't be what UST wanted ... not only is the vote punted down the road (again), but it leaves a lengthy period of time of being in no-man's land ... hard to recruit athletes when you have no chance at postseason opportunities - even if they are remote.

That and the scheduling issue... and my thinking about the challenges the financial downturn could create ... is this even worth the effort?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 17, 2020, 07:02:01 PM
it very much reads as though UST's waiver request will be granted, although why Division I is demanding they submit yet another request to do the exact same thing they've been asking for the last (seemingly forever) I have no idea. It's a yes or no question, gang. Sheesh.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 17, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 17, 2020, 07:02:01 PM
it very much reads as though UST's waiver request will be granted, although why Division I is demanding they submit yet another request to do the exact same thing they've been asking for the last (seemingly forever) I have no idea. It's a yes or no question, gang. Sheesh.

The last one was to request this opportunity ...

And with the recent economic downturn and now this being lengthened, I think everything is being reevaluated, so DI is going to make sure UST is serious.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 17, 2020, 07:05:33 PM
Now we get to find out if Rowan has been serious about moving to D1 as well. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 25, 2020, 03:48:45 PM
JWU-Denver closing in summer '21.

www.providencejournal.com/news/20200625/johnson--wales-to-close-campuses-in-florida-colorado
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 25, 2020, 06:16:05 PM
bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones (confirmed), Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)

*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) will close in 2020-21, but ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pine Manor joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger*
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

* Pine Manor announced that it will close its doors and be absorbed into Boston College after a two-year "teach out period." The CAC-ACAA press release indicates Pine Manor will compete in the CAC in 2020-21 and then "depart the conference," assumedly with athletics closing before 2021-22.

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on June 25, 2020, 07:04:40 PM
 I can understand the MAC adding York to the Commonwealth and switching Lycoming to the Freedom to balance the divisions numerically, but why switch Eastern and Arcadia? They're only a few miles apart so the disruption doesn't seem to warrant a switch.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 25, 2020, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: ronk on June 25, 2020, 07:04:40 PM
I can understand the MAC adding York to the Commonwealth and switching Lycoming to the Freedom to balance the divisions numerically, but why switch Eastern and Arcadia? They're only a few miles apart so the disruption doesn't seem to warrant a switch.

I heard something about wanting to build up (back?) the rivalry with Messiah, but that may just be speculation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on June 26, 2020, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: ronk on June 25, 2020, 07:04:40 PM
I can understand the MAC adding York to the Commonwealth and switching Lycoming to the Freedom to balance the divisions numerically, but why switch Eastern and Arcadia? They're only a few miles apart so the disruption doesn't seem to warrant a switch.

I've heard more off and on rumors about an Arcadia departure from the MAC (Atlantic East?). Would a Cabrini consider a move to the MAC as a replacement and as a natural rival to Eastern?

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 26, 2020, 09:39:37 AM
Arcadia was supposed to have been one of the original AEC members, but because it was in the middle of a president change, didn't pull the trigger.

I don't know that Cabrini has to be in the MAC -- it might be too soon to tell whether AEC is preferable to MAC for them but definitely they have to see AEC as preferable to CSAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2020, 02:55:40 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 26, 2020, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: ronk on June 25, 2020, 07:04:40 PM
I can understand the MAC adding York to the Commonwealth and switching Lycoming to the Freedom to balance the divisions numerically, but why switch Eastern and Arcadia? They're only a few miles apart so the disruption doesn't seem to warrant a switch.

I've heard more off and on rumors about an Arcadia departure from the MAC (Atlantic East?). Would a Cabrini consider a move to the MAC as a replacement and as a natural rival to Eastern?

To follow up on Pat's thoughts ... yeah, Arcadia to leave the MAC has been an ongoing topic for years now. They were in, then out, then in, then out, then ... who knows with the Atlantic East from the time the group formed until the conference officially formed. If they wanted to join the AEC, I am sure they would be welcomed.

I don't think Cabrini goes to the MAC. That isn't a good fit for them. I also agree that the AEC would be a better fit for Cabrini than anyone else.

I actually am not sure what other schools in the region would fit into the MAC. Everyone has either left the conference (for good reason in their minds) or doesn't really fit the group.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on June 26, 2020, 04:23:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2020, 02:55:40 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 26, 2020, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: ronk on June 25, 2020, 07:04:40 PM
I can understand the MAC adding York to the Commonwealth and switching Lycoming to the Freedom to balance the divisions numerically, but why switch Eastern and Arcadia? They're only a few miles apart so the disruption doesn't seem to warrant a switch.

I've heard more off and on rumors about an Arcadia departure from the MAC (Atlantic East?). Would a Cabrini consider a move to the MAC as a replacement and as a natural rival to Eastern?

To follow up on Pat's thoughts ... yeah, Arcadia to leave the MAC has been an ongoing topic for years now. They were in, then out, then in, then out, then ... who knows with the Atlantic East from the time the group formed until the conference officially formed. If they wanted to join the AEC, I am sure they would be welcomed.

I don't think Cabrini goes to the MAC. That isn't a good fit for them. I also agree that the AEC would be a better fit for Cabrini than anyone else.

I actually am not sure what other schools in the region would fit into the MAC. Everyone has either left the conference (for good reason in their minds) or doesn't really fit the group.

Thanks Dave.......and Pat. I hope that all is well with both of you and your families. Dave, what are the odds at this point of the D3 Shootout in Las Vegas this year actually taking place? Your coverage is outstanding!!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2020, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 26, 2020, 04:23:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2020, 02:55:40 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 26, 2020, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: ronk on June 25, 2020, 07:04:40 PM
I can understand the MAC adding York to the Commonwealth and switching Lycoming to the Freedom to balance the divisions numerically, but why switch Eastern and Arcadia? They're only a few miles apart so the disruption doesn't seem to warrant a switch.

I've heard more off and on rumors about an Arcadia departure from the MAC (Atlantic East?). Would a Cabrini consider a move to the MAC as a replacement and as a natural rival to Eastern?

To follow up on Pat's thoughts ... yeah, Arcadia to leave the MAC has been an ongoing topic for years now. They were in, then out, then in, then out, then ... who knows with the Atlantic East from the time the group formed until the conference officially formed. If they wanted to join the AEC, I am sure they would be welcomed.

I don't think Cabrini goes to the MAC. That isn't a good fit for them. I also agree that the AEC would be a better fit for Cabrini than anyone else.

I actually am not sure what other schools in the region would fit into the MAC. Everyone has either left the conference (for good reason in their minds) or doesn't really fit the group.

Thanks Dave.......and Pat. I hope that all is well with both of you and your families. Dave, what are the odds at this point of the D3 Shootout in Las Vegas this year actually taking place? Your coverage is outstanding!!!

Well Pat is a much a part of that question as I would be. I think we are simply letting things play out at this point. I wouldn't want to put odds on it. I could envision things settling down and we get out there and have a great event. I could also envision things are postponed, unfortunately, this season as teams can't make it or it isn't the right time to do it.

Time will tell. I am in no rush to make that decision, personally. It will have to be made at some point, I know.

Thanks for the kind words. It is a team project. I know I had to lean on the guys a bit last year and I will need to lean on them more if we have it this year (if I can make it), so they deserve just as much credit.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 26, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
I obviously would love to see us have a D3hoops.com Classic in Las Vegas. There are a lot of moving parts to consider, between any local government considerations, the schools themselves, travel, etc.

I also won't be making a wager on this but we obviously do have to consider that the world at the end of December could look vastly different.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: monsoon on July 06, 2020, 02:44:12 PM
Haven't seen it listed here yet:

Louisiana College leaving the ASC to move back to NAIA for 2021-'22 season.

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia (https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 06, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: monsoon on July 06, 2020, 02:44:12 PM
Haven't seen it listed here yet:

Louisiana College leaving the ASC to move back to NAIA for 2021-'22 season.

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia (https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia)

Was actually a featured story on D3Football.com on July 1.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: monsoon on July 06, 2020, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 06, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: monsoon on July 06, 2020, 02:44:12 PM
Haven't seen it listed here yet:

Louisiana College leaving the ASC to move back to NAIA for 2021-'22 season.

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia (https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia)

Was actually a featured story on D3Football.com on July 1.

Yes; I linked the d3sports article. I meant it hadn't appeared in this thread yet.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 06, 2020, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: monsoon on July 06, 2020, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 06, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Quote from: monsoon on July 06, 2020, 02:44:12 PM
Haven't seen it listed here yet:

Louisiana College leaving the ASC to move back to NAIA for 2021-'22 season.

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia (https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/07/louisiana-college-headed-for-naia)

Was actually a featured story on D3Football.com on July 1.

Yes; I linked the d3sports article. I meant it hadn't appeared in this thread yet.

Gotcha!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 10, 2020, 04:45:04 PM
bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Exploratory: Manor College

*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pine Manor joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger*
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

* I assume Pine Manor will compete in the CAC in 2020-21 and then end athletics as part of its two-year "teach out" period with Boston College.

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 10, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
Wesley will continue as Wesley for the time being, but they're being purchased by Delaware State, so we'll have to watch for future changes after 20-21.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 11, 2020, 12:44:06 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 10, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
Wesley will continue as Wesley for the time being, but they're being purchased by Delaware State, so we'll have to watch for future changes after 20-21.

Is that in the same sense of Jim Valvano evaluating high school ballers back in the day while wearing a shirt that said Iona College and having people tell him that he wasn't old enough to own a college?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 11, 2020, 07:02:35 PM
Quote from: ronk on July 11, 2020, 12:44:06 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 10, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
Wesley will continue as Wesley for the time being, but they're being purchased by Delaware State, so we'll have to watch for future changes after 20-21.

Is that in the same sense of Jim Valvano evaluating high school ballers back in the day while wearing a shirt that said Iona College and having people tell him that he wasn't old enough to own a college?

Stick to your day job, ronk. LOL   :P ::) ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 11, 2020, 10:00:39 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 11, 2020, 07:02:35 PM
Quote from: ronk on July 11, 2020, 12:44:06 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 10, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
Wesley will continue as Wesley for the time being, but they're being purchased by Delaware State, so we'll have to watch for future changes after 20-21.

Is that in the same sense of Jim Valvano evaluating high school ballers back in the day while wearing a shirt that said Iona College and having people tell him that he wasn't old enough to own a college?

Stick to your day job, ronk. LOL   :P ::) ;D :D ;)

No, that was a thing.  He'd introduce himself "Jim Valvano, Iona College" and people thought he was bragging.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 16, 2020, 12:41:25 AM
St. Thomas got the OK to move up to Division I, and will start the transition in 2021-22.
https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 16, 2020, 12:41:25 AM
St. Thomas got the OK to move up to Division I, and will start the transition in 2021-22.
https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/

Good to see they landed on their feet in what seems to be a nice position. It was interesting to see how the NCAA handled the D3 to D1 move. It will be fun to watch the Tommies success in the future! I also wonder if any other institutions will follow suit in the years ahead now that a road map has been established.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 16, 2020, 12:41:25 AM
St. Thomas got the OK to move up to Division I, and will start the transition in 2021-22.
https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/

Good to see they landed on their feet in what seems to be a nice position. It was interesting to see how the NCAA handled the D3 to D1 move. It will be fun to watch the Tommies success in the future! I also wonder if any other institutions will follow suit in the years ahead now that a road map has been established.

It is time for Rowan to put their actions where their mouth's have been.

At the rate they are growing.................and the plans for much more growth (that are locked within the "double secret probation" safe), it's time to move on. If St. Thomas can do it, surely Rowan can as well. There is a fairly local FCS conference that would be a natural!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 16, 2020, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 12:19:39 PM
It is time for Rowan to put their actions where their mouth's have been.

At the rate they are growing.................and the plans for much more growth (that are locked within the "double secret probation" safe), it's time to move on. If St. Thomas can do it, surely Rowan can as well. Their is a fairly local FCS conference that would be a natural!!

The last New Jersey public university to move to Division I had to wait over a decade before getting into a regional conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 01:51:22 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 16, 2020, 12:41:25 AM
St. Thomas got the OK to move up to Division I, and will start the transition in 2021-22.
https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/

Good to see they landed on their feet in what seems to be a nice position. It was interesting to see how the NCAA handled the D3 to D1 move. It will be fun to watch the Tommies success in the future! I also wonder if any other institutions will follow suit in the years ahead now that a road map has been established.

It is time for Rowan to put their actions where their mouth's have been.

At the rate they are growing.................and the plans for much more growth (that are locked within the "double secret probation" safe), it's time to move on. If St. Thomas can do it, surely Rowan can as well. Their is a fairly local FCS conference that would be a natural!!

Keep us posted on any Double Secret Probation Safe leaks.  There are many locally around here who feel the best option for CNU is eventual D1 and FCS.  I'm not one who favors that. I don't see a path that can make that happen with a $35 million endowment.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 16, 2020, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 12:19:39 PM
It is time for Rowan to put their actions where their mouth's have been.

At the rate they are growing.................and the plans for much more growth (that are locked within the "double secret probation" safe), it's time to move on. If St. Thomas can do it, surely Rowan can as well. Their is a fairly local FCS conference that would be a natural!!

The last New Jersey public university to move to Division I had to wait over a decade before getting into a regional conference.

Times they are a changing and it's not just the constant same division, conference roulette. Tommies from III to I. Frostburg from III to II. Nothing will take ten years any longer. I've spoken to Neil Hartman and Doctor G and Rowan has big plans..............and staying in D-III forever is NOT part of them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 01:51:22 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 16, 2020, 12:41:25 AM
St. Thomas got the OK to move up to Division I, and will start the transition in 2021-22.
https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/

Good to see they landed on their feet in what seems to be a nice position. It was interesting to see how the NCAA handled the D3 to D1 move. It will be fun to watch the Tommies success in the future! I also wonder if any other institutions will follow suit in the years ahead now that a road map has been established.

It is time for Rowan to put their actions where their mouth's have been.

At the rate they are growing.................and the plans for much more growth (that are locked within the "double secret probation" safe), it's time to move on. If St. Thomas can do it, surely Rowan can as well. Their is a fairly local FCS conference that would be a natural!!

Keep us posted on any Double Secret Probation Safe leaks.  There are many locally around here who feel the best option for CNU is eventual D1 and FCS.  I'm not one who favors that. I don't see a path that can make that happen with a $35 million endowment.

Will do CNU!! CNU would need some helicopter money imo for that to happen someday. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 17, 2020, 08:10:56 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 16, 2020, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 16, 2020, 12:19:39 PM
It is time for Rowan to put their actions where their mouth's have been.

At the rate they are growing.................and the plans for much more growth (that are locked within the "double secret probation" safe), it's time to move on. If St. Thomas can do it, surely Rowan can as well. Their is a fairly local FCS conference that would be a natural!!

The last New Jersey public university to move to Division I had to wait over a decade before getting into a regional conference.

Times they are a changing and it's not just the constant same division, conference roulette. Tommies from III to I. Frostburg from III to II. Nothing will take ten years any longer. I've spoken to Neil Hartman and Doctor G and Rowan has big plans..............and staying in D-III forever is NOT part of them.

Helicopter money!!! hahaha. That's a long way from now. Perhaps some "Drone" money is available. A brief history of CNU and why the endowment will be slow to grow.
Started 1960. 2 year extension of William and Mary.
Around 1967 - four year college. Degrees read "Christopher Newport College of The College of William and Mary"
1977 - ended affiliation with W&M
Around 1991 - became University and I believe around that time the first dorm was built. So, the first 30 years, the school was for the local community. This is the main reason!
1996 Trible became President and things took off. $1.4 billion in capital expenditure. Revamped curriculum offering. Changed mission of the institution. Started building more dorms

Pretty much the folks that can really identify with CNU the most are the ones who graduated in the 21st Century. They are just now reaching the point of their careers/life where any significant helicoptering can take place. I graduated in 85 and probably the only reason I'm involved is the proximity - I drive by it to and from work every day and my commute to work is 4.5 miles.  My time at CNU was drive to class and then head to work to pay for class. Good news was...I graduated with zero college debt.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 17, 2020, 10:06:15 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 17, 2020, 08:10:56 AM
Around 1967 - four year college. Degrees read "Christopher Newport College of The College of William and Mary"

A college of a college? That was a bit awkward.

Quote from: CNU85 on July 17, 2020, 08:10:56 AM1977 - ended affiliation with W&M

Cue Steely Dan: "Whoa, no, William and Mary won't do."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 17, 2020, 10:09:30 AM
 :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 17, 2020, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 16, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 16, 2020, 12:41:25 AM
St. Thomas got the OK to move up to Division I, and will start the transition in 2021-22.
https://news.stthomas.edu/july-15-2020-press-release/

Good to see they landed on their feet in what seems to be a nice position. It was interesting to see how the NCAA handled the D3 to D1 move. It will be fun to watch the Tommies success in the future! I also wonder if any other institutions will follow suit in the years ahead now that a road map has been established.

Not really how "the NCAA" handled the move, but how DI handled the move. This isn't an Indy decision or anyone at NCAA headquarters. Like everything, this is how DI has decided to handle this idea. I am not sure why their change in position on DIIIs transferring up, but they have. What is stranger is they are coming up with plan moving forward, but have skipped DI approval in January to get UST in place. If they were planning to do that in the first place, why didn't they do it already?

As for CNU, I have said this before, but ... CNU moving up divisions removes what makes them unique. They would be come just like every other college in their area and region. What makes CNU unique in the Virginia Beach larger region is that they have a big school feel in terms of athletics but are not a DI or DII institution. Once they enter the higher division world, they are now fighting for the same students as the other institutions without much unique to offer. Currently they can say they are a program that competes for championships with terrific facilities and a tremendous education. Why would they want to lose what works for them? I think that is the part of the decision that has to be considered ... on top of the costs of such a move. Even CNU's facilities would need to be upgraded.

This is similar to those who tell me Salisbury is either looking into it or considering it. What makes Salisbury unique is they can get DI talent who aren't interested in playing for either institutions that aren't that competitive OR won't really get a chance to play on larger programs. If Salisbury decides to climb the ladder, the recruits they have been getting especially in sports like lacrosse will no longer find Salisbury as attractive an option. They will be just like the rest.

As for Rowan - yep, it's time to see what they really have planned. It has long been rumored they wanted to go to DI and have been frustrated by DII not accepting them or having a home for them (which could be changing as I understand it with some conferences losing members to other conferences and closures, but I admit to not paying that much attention to DII). If Rowan really wants to be DI, this is their opportunity to at least indicate that. They may get rejected by DI (I think this "plan" is not going to be very successful for a lot who may think it makes sense), but at least they show they were serious ... versus just rumors and false moves they have shown over the years.

And again, this "plan" for a DIII to transfer to DI is not something that just opens up some huge "door" for DIIIs. It is not going to be easy to transition and with the college economics changing incredibly fast right now and in the wrong direction spending money to get to DI and have the "glory" of DI just isn't feasible. I may be a pessimist in this case, but I hope this works for UST. I worry the economics aren't as strong as they were a year ago (and yes, I understand the "they don't have a conference" thing; bridge to cross only if they weren't going to DI). The selfish side of me also doesn't want to lose a school like UST out of the division, but ... anyway ...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 17, 2020, 09:53:39 PM
I found this release on SUNY Delhi's website: https://delhibroncos.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200630gwrew3

QuoteThe NCAA Division III Membership Committee announced that it has advanced SUNY Delhi to its third and final year of provisional membership entering the 2020-21 year. The committee communicated that SUNY Delhi has fulfilled all requirements for provisional membership for the 2019-20 academic year. The Broncos are scheduled to become eligible for full-time membership by the 2021-22 season.

Did they get a waiver, or does the new three-year provisional period apply to schools that were already in the process?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 18, 2020, 08:27:26 AM
I believe every team has gotten a Year 3 waiver since the proposal was launched. The new system essentially codifies how they've been operating the last couple years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 18, 2020, 10:00:50 AM
Dave, I'm hearing some rumblings out of Lancaster about LBC and conference change related news but can't get my three contacts to open up. Stay tuned. The NEAC could be going bye bye if they and Morrisville move on..............and if St. Mary's can bail soon.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 19, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 18, 2020, 10:00:50 AM
Dave, I'm hearing some rumblings out of Lancaster about LBC and conference change related news but can't get my three contacts to open up. Stay tuned. The NEAC could be going bye bye if they and Morrisville move on..............and if St. Mary's can bail soon.

If you have been paying attention ... I've mentioned LBC moving conferences for awhile. I have not mentioned where they are going because I haven't felt it is my place as of yet to do so, but I have either mentioned the NEAC losing more members, a Mid-Atlantic school changing conferences, or flat out said I'm told LBC will be leaving the NEAC many times in the last nine months or more. :)

SMC has no where to bail to at this point unless they realize their mistake (which I have told them, for the record) and they go back to the CAC/ACAA. Otherwise, where do they go?

Morrisville State... as much as I think they can leave, do tell me where? I don't see where they go and the SUNYAC doesn't seem likely at all (or it would have happened already - a while ago).

But yeah ... LBC will be leaving the NEAC. I think it is pretty easy to figure out where they are going, by the way.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 19, 2020, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 19, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on July 18, 2020, 10:00:50 AM
Dave, I'm hearing some rumblings out of Lancaster about LBC and conference change related news but can't get my three contacts to open up. Stay tuned. The NEAC could be going bye bye if they and Morrisville move on..............and if St. Mary's can bail soon.

If you have been paying attention ... I've mentioned LBC moving conferences for awhile. I have not mentioned where they are going because I haven't felt it is my place as of yet to do so, but I have either mentioned the NEAC losing more members, a Mid-Atlantic school changing conferences, or flat out said I'm told LBC will be leaving the NEAC many times in the last nine months or more. :)

SMC has no where to bail to at this point unless they realize their mistake (which I have told them, for the record) and they go back to the CAC/ACAA. Otherwise, where do they go?

Morrisville State... as much as I think they can leave, do tell me where? I don't see where they go and the SUNYAC doesn't seem likely at all (or it would have happened already - a while ago).

But yeah ... LBC will be leaving the NEAC. I think it is pretty easy to figure out where they are going, by the way.

Dave, yes you have said that LBC will be leaving the NEAC for quite some time. I'm guessing we're close to an announcement. They have also secured two rather large (for a school their size) gifts that will help in their plans to significantly grow the institution and sports programs. They've got a huge chunk of undeveloped land (although the cows and horses have to go somewhere :) ) and plenty of physical room for growth.

I don't see anything near a natural landing spot for Morrisvlle. They are a NY-fish-out-of-water at this point (I also wonder the same thing about Gallaudet from time to time..........and you probably have some info, or at least some thoughts, given your relationship with Sam).

SMC should go back to the CAC/ACAA.........tuck tail between legs and use the feeling of a very shaky NEAC as an "excuse". I'm guessing the CAC/ACAA would take them back as that strange conference alignment can't be too picky at this point, can they?

This all stinks Dave and I'm afraid the light at the end of the tunnel is further off in the distance than many believe..........and it also might be a train and NOT the sun. :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 19, 2020, 11:51:29 PM
I mentioned on one of the recent podcasts I felt the LBC move would happen in the next six months (announcement wise).

I know Gallaudet has looked around for a new home and has been denied - multiple times (usually for geographic reasons). I also know the CAC came calling, ironic but also not surprising, and Gallaudet turned them down.

I am not sure where Gallaudet could fall if they left the NEAC or the conference blew up ... and for the record, I have not gotten any information from Sam nor would I reveal anything about Gallaudet had I gotten it from Sam for the reason you gave. Sam and I have known each other for years and anyone knowing even a little of that would figure my intel came from Gallaudet. I don't believe I have ever revealed anything Sam as told me in public unless he told me something I already had from other sources (i.e. the reason I said it publicly wasn't because Sam gave me it). I sit on things a lot of times because of those relationships - either because people will figure out where I am getting my info (thus identifying a source that doesn't want to be identified or because those conversations are between friends or me learning more and not for public anyway).

Quick side note, I happened to get the information on who Roanoke was hiring to replace Page Moir as head coach. It happened to be my college classmate and friend Clay Nunley. I had it from multiple sources and broke it. There is a longer story to this, the next day or two days later the Roanoke Times reported on Clay getting the job and talked about how it broke naming me. Then used an early paragraph to simple point out that Clay and I had gone to college to together and then moved on with the article. Their point was to try and make it seem that Clay and given me the info and thus how I broke the story. It made me laugh ... Clay wasn't my source. He wasn't any of my sources on that particular story, but the assumption was made. Thus an example of why I wouldn't do that with Sam - sometimes it is so obvious it can't be the way it works.

I don't disagree that SMC should go back ... but that ship has sailed. They jumped in the first lifeboat that came along and didn't check to see if it was leaking. They bought into some explanations and stories the NEAC was selling and in my opinion never did their homework. They never checked to see if that information was accurate. I'm not the only one who knew what SMC was sold was a pile of crap ... and thus I don't think they can go back to the CAC/ACAA (but they really, really need to).

The CAC/ACAA shouldn't be picky, but they also don't need to be. They will be a transition conference for many new DIIIs and others for a period of time until other conference shakeups creates more opportunities. Until then, they will be the hybrid the ACAA was created to represent but with a strong group with the CAC members allowing there to be AQs in a lot of sports.

What specifically stinks? There could be a lot of things you are alluding to ...

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 20, 2020, 02:21:47 PM
  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 20, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Well dang!  :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 20, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Dave, I was just really referencing this entire situation (COVID) and what has done to so many people, businesses, institutions, etc. "Stinks" was my 'cleaned up' word!! :(

I'm just hoping that the Hoopsville shows a few months from now actually have some game action to discuss. Fingers crossed!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 21, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
Southern Virginia put out a release about fall sports today (http://athletics.svu.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200721oo7gwc).  Within it is buried this tidbit (emphasis mine):

QuoteWith this question in mind, the Coast 2 Coast (formerly Capital Athletic Conference) today elected to postpone—rather than cancel—intercollegiate competition and championships for the following fall sports: men's and women's soccer, men's and women's cross country, field hockey, and women's volleyball.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 21, 2020, 05:07:14 PM
Fall is done

https://www.cacsports.com/general/2020-21/releases/20200713i35peq (https://www.cacsports.com/general/2020-21/releases/20200713i35peq)

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 21, 2020, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 21, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
Southern Virginia put out a release about fall sports today (http://athletics.svu.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200721oo7gwc).  Within it is buried this tidbit:

QuoteWith this question in mind, the Coast 2 Coast (formerly Capital Athletic Conference) today elected to postpone—rather than cancel—intercollegiate competition and championships for the following fall sports: men's and women's soccer, men's and women's cross country, field hockey, and women's volleyball. Likewise, the Old Dominion Athletic Conference, our conference affiliate for football, today also elected to postpone its football season until January 1, 2021.

Shows the amazing lack of class of individuals at SVU. The Conference name change has not been announced by the CAC and SVU had to put it in their press release. If it hasn't been announced, then it is still the CAC. No need to steal the show and for what purpose? "I knew before you did"? 

Update -- SVU just changed the release
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 21, 2020, 05:22:45 PM
I tried to confirm the new name with one conference coach. He hadn't even heard of it. Not that it isn't correct, I just thought it was funny.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 14, 2020, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 21, 2020, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 21, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
Southern Virginia put out a release about fall sports today (http://athletics.svu.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200721oo7gwc).  Within it is buried this tidbit:

QuoteWith this question in mind, the Coast 2 Coast (formerly Capital Athletic Conference) today elected to postpone—rather than cancel—intercollegiate competition and championships for the following fall sports: men's and women's soccer, men's and women's cross country, field hockey, and women's volleyball. Likewise, the Old Dominion Athletic Conference, our conference affiliate for football, today also elected to postpone its football season until January 1, 2021.

Shows the amazing lack of class of individuals at SVU. The Conference name change has not been announced by the CAC and SVU had to put it in their press release. If it hasn't been announced, then it is still the CAC. No need to steal the show and for what purpose? "I knew before you did"? 

Update -- SVU just changed the release

Sorry to chime in on two-month-old almost-news, but Coast 2 Coast would be an amazingly terrible conference name. So bad that I would be impressed by it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 14, 2020, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on September 14, 2020, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on July 21, 2020, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 21, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
Southern Virginia put out a release about fall sports today (http://athletics.svu.edu/general/2019-20/releases/20200721oo7gwc).  Within it is buried this tidbit:

QuoteWith this question in mind, the Coast 2 Coast (formerly Capital Athletic Conference) today elected to postpone—rather than cancel—intercollegiate competition and championships for the following fall sports: men's and women's soccer, men's and women's cross country, field hockey, and women's volleyball. Likewise, the Old Dominion Athletic Conference, our conference affiliate for football, today also elected to postpone its football season until January 1, 2021.

Shows the amazing lack of class of individuals at SVU. The Conference name change has not been announced by the CAC and SVU had to put it in their press release. If it hasn't been announced, then it is still the CAC. No need to steal the show and for what purpose? "I knew before you did"? 

Update -- SVU just changed the release

Sorry to chime in on two-month-old almost news, but Coast 2 Coast would be an amazingly terrible conference name. So bad that I would be impressed by it.

Not sure if because of Covid or because of some reaction to the leak ... but they haven't come out with the new name.

I also find it interesting because it might be the second conference I know that ended up not releasing their info when the news got out first. The first one ended up finally announcing their news ... 6-9 months later. SMH
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 20, 2020, 06:52:05 PM
per their assistant baseball coach on Twitter, Pine Manor Athletics are done forever.

https://twitter.com/CoachDiver/status/1306354722232823809
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 20, 2020, 09:57:04 PM
Sadly ... no surprise.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 21, 2020, 01:08:15 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Exploratory: Manor College

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) ends athletics immediately
Pine Manor ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on September 22, 2020, 12:33:25 AM
Isn't Wesley dropping its athletic teams in 2021 after they get merged with Delaware State?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 22, 2020, 08:48:49 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on September 22, 2020, 12:33:25 AM
Isn't Wesley dropping its athletic teams in 2021 after they get merged with Delaware State?

We don't know yet.  They're negotiating all those issues during this academic year.  None of the details were decided before the merger; they just had to move forward for financial reasons.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on September 22, 2020, 09:16:03 AM
Just curious...I couldn't find an announcement from J&W-Denver about ending athletics on their site or the SCAC site???   
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 22, 2020, 11:03:25 AM
Quote from: hopefan on September 22, 2020, 09:16:03 AM
Just curious...I couldn't find an announcement from J&W-Denver about ending athletics on their site or the SCAC site???

Its on their athletics home page.  First story.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on September 22, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 22, 2020, 11:03:25 AM
Quote from: hopefan on September 22, 2020, 09:16:03 AM
Just curious...I couldn't find an announcement from J&W-Denver about ending athletics on their site or the SCAC site???

Its on their athletics home page.  First story.

HA HA  HA... first thing I saw was a bunch of scores... got me confused... didn't look further.... I gotta get out of this business ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 23, 2020, 06:25:13 PM
Will there be a 2020-21 NCAA Division III basketball season? If so what will it look like? What will the post-season look like?

It is on the mind of student-athletes, coaches, administrators, parents, and fans for several weeks, if not months, now. We are finally understanding what it may look like as a number of decisions or proposals are now making their way around Division III.

In this month's podcast, Dave McHugh not only downloads all the things being considered and the likely outcomes, but tries to give listeners an understanding of how much is still unknown despite some things becoming more clear.

McHugh also talks to Texas-Dallas women's basketball coach Polly Thomason for her take. Thomason has been in the Division III Women's Basketball National Committee for several years and is this season's chair of the committee. She also serves on the WBCA Board of Governors. Thomason not only provides her perspective on much of what is going on not only in Division III, but in women's basketball as well.

And of course, there is always the Hoopsville Notebook. Unfortunately, there is some sad news in the Notebook this month, but also news to celebrate especially when it comes to DIII alums making news in the NBA.

You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3kMl0rZ

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.

If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2020, 06:12:09 PM

https://thegnac.prestosports.com/general/2020-21/releases/2020100502g71v

Elms to the GNAC.

NECC gets hit again.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on October 05, 2020, 06:19:17 PM
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Exploratory: Manor College

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) ends athletics immediately
Pine Manor ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2020, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2020, 06:12:09 PM

https://thegnac.prestosports.com/general/2020-21/releases/2020100502g71v

Elms to the GNAC.

NECC gets hit again.

this will put the NECC under the 7-team threshold even in the women's sports that were just hanging on because of Bay Path. I don't know if there's anyone out there they can go get to help them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 06, 2020, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2020, 07:56:26 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2020, 06:12:09 PM

https://thegnac.prestosports.com/general/2020-21/releases/2020100502g71v

Elms to the GNAC.

NECC gets hit again.

this will put the NECC under the 7-team threshold even in the women's sports that were just hanging on because of Bay Path. I don't know if there's anyone out there they can go get to help them.

I'm sure there will be more changes coming - and certainly some small schools will not be in business after this year anyway.  I'd imagine every current member of the NECC is in a pretty precarious position with regards to enrollment and funding.  You'll see a lot of changes before Elms actually leaves.

Shoot, the NECC only has six men's teams this year, even with Elms still in the fold.  They know they have work to do.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on October 06, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on October 06, 2020, 06:27:16 PM
Both Iowa Wesleyan and Louisiana College have been approved by the NAIA.

https://www.lcwildcats.net/news/2020/10/5/general-louisiana-college-accepted-into-naia-joins-rrac-sac.aspx
https://www.iwtigers.com/article/2790
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: augie77 on October 06, 2020, 08:41:48 PM
Any word on the motivations of these institutions to go the NAIA route?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 07, 2020, 08:08:04 AM
Quote from: augie77 on October 06, 2020, 08:41:48 PM
Any word on the motivations of these institutions to go the NAIA route?

Fewer requirements, chance for scholarships. At least for Iowa Wes. I suspect d3 doesn't have the same recruiting value for LC, in their part of the world. They also rely on money games to fund their program, which kills playoff access in d3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on October 07, 2020, 10:07:02 AM
Iowa Wesleyan put out a fluffy statement  https://www.iw.edu/iowa-wesleyan-university-informed-the-national-collegiate-athletic-association-ncaa-that-it-intends-to-apply-for-the-national-association-of-intercollegiate-athletics-naia-membership/

They were a member of the MCC in NAIA before their jump to D3, I imagine they go back.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on October 07, 2020, 10:13:58 AM
The Midwest Collegiate Conference is no longer, but the Heart of America conference absorbed a few of those schools and surely Iowa Wesleyan will join that. It will be helpful for Iowa Wez to have 4-5 other Iowa schools to compete against.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 15, 2020, 04:11:02 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on October 06, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: huskereddy on October 15, 2020, 05:56:24 PM
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 15, 2020, 04:11:02 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on October 06, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on October 16, 2020, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: huskereddy on October 15, 2020, 05:56:24 PM
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

Yes, this is what I meant. I was referring to men's basketball.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2020, 03:46:13 PM
As for Louisiana College, I suspect this is a move related to travel time. LC likely has a more compact footprint in its new conference and this is a school with very little money, so that will be a noticeable savings.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on October 17, 2020, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2020, 03:46:13 PM
As for Louisiana College, I suspect this is a move related to travel time. LC likely has a more compact footprint in its new conference and this is a school with very little money, so that will be a noticeable savings.

For the most part, the RRAC (LC's new conference except in football) is slightly more compact than the ASC, but does have a school in southeastern New Mexico. However, LC's new football conference has two teams in Arizona.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 20, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: huskereddy on October 15, 2020, 05:56:24 PM
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 15, 2020, 04:11:02 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on October 06, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).

Core member is a confusing term - in this case it isn't "ones who have been there or founded the conference." It simply means full-time members of the conference.

So if there are seven members in a sport, the AQ is intact. If there are less than that, as long as there are four members the grace period starts (two years) until the AQ is lost. However, the moment the membership falls below four, the AQ is gone immediately.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on October 21, 2020, 01:49:23 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 20, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: huskereddy on October 15, 2020, 05:56:24 PM
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 15, 2020, 04:11:02 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on October 06, 2020, 01:52:32 PM
This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).

Core member is a confusing term - in this case it isn't "ones who have been there or founded the conference." It simply means full-time members of the conference.

So if there are seven members in a sport, the AQ is intact. If there are less than that, as long as there are four members the grace period starts (two years) until the AQ is lost. However, the moment the membership falls below four, the AQ is gone immediately.

Exactly! That's why the CAC had to do something....they were soon to only have 3 teams. Although, the solution is most likely not a long term one, it was at least a solution for now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 21, 2020, 08:17:34 PM
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on October 22, 2020, 01:24:23 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 21, 2020, 08:17:34 PM
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?

The "Shell Game Conference Shuffle".......................now THAT is an interesting concept!! ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 22, 2020, 02:44:48 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 21, 2020, 08:17:34 PM
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?

I think there would be something to prevent such shenanigans pretty quickly if someone tried to do it - just like they've changed the rules a bit to prevent a repeat of the ACAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 23, 2020, 12:22:52 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 22, 2020, 02:44:48 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 21, 2020, 08:17:34 PM
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?

I think there would be something to prevent such shenanigans pretty quickly if someone tried to do it - just like they've changed the rules a bit to prevent a repeat of the ACAA.

I concur with Ryan - there is still room for the division and committees to shut something like this down. They have debated and looked at other things like what the ACAA tried to do with no conference games (though, ultimately didn't do anything based in part on the fact the ACAA wasn't staying together long enough to earn the AQ).

If this started up, rules would be put in place to shut it down.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on October 25, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, JWU-Denver
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Exploratory: Manor College

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) ends athletics immediately
Pine Manor ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 17, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
I figure the Emory & Henry news belongs in this thread. https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/11/emory-henry-sets-sights-d2

So this would mean Emory & Henry would begin their transition in 2021–22 but not play a SAC schedule until the following year. Don't know whether they'd play a D3 schedule in 2021–22, but they definitely would not be eligible for D3 championships.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on November 18, 2020, 01:22:02 PM
Yep, thanks for flagging that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on November 18, 2020, 01:51:46 PM
It's finally official!

Nothing surprising or unexpected. But a pretty cool video launch.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1329107107136692225 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1329107107136692225)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 18, 2020, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 18, 2020, 01:51:46 PM
It's finally official!

Nothing surprising or unexpected. But a pretty cool video launch.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1329107107136692225 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1329107107136692225)

I'm relieved to see the numeral "2" isn't actually in the name.

Anecdote time: After I noticed that name in the SVU release (which I posted about on page 74 of this thread), I mentioned it in the /r/CFB mod chat (I'm a mod of /r/CFB). We tweeted about it from the @RedditCFB Twitter account (https://twitter.com/RedditCFB/status/1285679262641672195), even though it wasn't really football-related. Within an hour or two, the Capital Athletic Conference account DM'd us asking to take down the tweet because SVU had inadvertently leaked the rebrand.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 29, 2020, 12:29:01 AM
How's this for vague? (https://www.collegiateconsulting.com/news/collegiate-consulting-completes-divisional-reclassification-study)

QuoteAs the COVID19 pandemic continued heading into the start of the 2020-2021 athletic and academic year, there was an expectation that there would be institutions that would need to **** intercollegiate athletics and its fit within the institution. Collegiate Consulting recently completed a comprehensive Divisional Reclassification Study for a Division II institution exploring options at Division III.

The four-month project included an assessment of two Division III conferences within the institution's geographic footprint, which included institutional comparison, sports sponsorship, travel and opportunity for membership invitation. The study included the membership protocol and steps for an institution to reclassify into Division III.

The institutional assessment included sports and administrative budget analysis, staffing and salaries and total budget impact on the institution.  The final component was a SWOT Analysis comparing the pros and cons of remaining Division II or a reclassification to Division III. The institution is quietly reviewing the report and assessing its options as they consider the future of its intercollegiate athletics program.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 29, 2020, 11:53:00 AM
That is for their clients or potential clients. Showing the kind of work they do without giving away their client information.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Maybe not unexpected, but ... https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2021/02/delaware-state-pulls-plug-on-wesley
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2021, 07:20:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Maybe not unexpected, but ... https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2021/02/delaware-state-pulls-plug-on-wesley

that's rough. Any early thoughts on what the AEC will do to replace them and save its AQs?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2021, 09:04:56 PM
Not yet. There are definitely schools in the area that could be convinced to move, though. I would think that perhaps Eastern, which was in the Pennsylvania Athletic Conference back in the day with Cabrini and Neumann and Marywood and the like, might want to be in that league, but Eastern is also talking about adding football, which the AEC does not sponsor.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on February 16, 2021, 04:31:08 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2021, 07:20:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Maybe not unexpected, but ... https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2021/02/delaware-state-pulls-plug-on-wesley

that's rough. Any early thoughts on what the AEC will do to replace them and save its AQs?
There's three D3 schools in the general vicinity looking for a stable conference. Christopher Newport, Salisbury, Mary Washington, and maybe Pratt or Trinity Washington.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2021, 10:36:47 PM
It's highly unlikely that the AEC wants CNU, UMW or Salisbury. Trinity Washington would only bring an AQ in a very small number of sports and can't guarantee it can field those teams.

I don't know much about Pratt as an institution.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2021, 06:48:48 PM
I agree with Pat - CNU, Mary Washington (travel wise), and Salisbury will NOT be headed to the AEC. Remember, two members (now one) left the CAC to form the AEC to finally put a little distance between themselves and CNU, MWU, SAL. They aren't going to now welcome them in.

As for Pratt, I think they would fit better in the NEAC or the CSAC. I don't think the AEC would be interested in taking them on.

And Pat says it well about Trinity - they just don't provide the numbers nor the apparent stability to really be a factor. Or they would already be in the CSAC, NEAC, or others.

Maybe Gallaudet could be an option, but Eastern is a good idea as well especially since they were part of the initial eight to come up with the idea of the AEC (then backed out, then were in, and then back out, then ...). The football factor would be significant, though, in keeping them where they are.

The MAC has reached critical size, again, and so I could see a few bolting. I could also see some unsteadiness in the Landmark possibly.

And another factor is the financial landscape of colleges and universities. There is going to be a lot of unsettled ground for awhile and that could also impact a lot of conference changes, shrinkage, and changes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: saratoga on February 17, 2021, 08:53:56 PM

Perhaps Goucher may take a serious look at the AEC.
I've heard some different musings over the past several years that not being remotely competitive in any sport (men's or women's) isn't helping the overall image of the college from an administrative perspective.
Naturally, you'd have more insight than anyone on this topic Dave but I'm not sure remaining in the Landmark is sustainable for even their most ardent & optimistic fans and alumni.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2021, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: saratoga on February 17, 2021, 08:53:56 PM

Perhaps Goucher may take a serious look at the AEC.
I've heard some different musings over the past several years that not being remotely competitive in any sport (men's or women's) isn't helping the overall image of the college from an administrative perspective.
Naturally, you'd have more insight than anyone on this topic Dave but I'm not sure remaining in the Landmark is sustainable for even their most ardent & optimistic fans and alumni.

Nope. From what I am told, they are committed to the Landmark and from what I have started to put together there has been a change of approach and mentality in the higher-up administration.

We shall see where it leads, but I've asked about the AEC a number of times in the last 18 months ... and while the in-depth conversations as to why have changed and been very insightful, the answer has been the same: we are staying in the Landmark. Even some who felt that would be a smart move have seemingly changed their minds. The change to the admin mentality may have a lot to do with that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 18, 2021, 02:38:09 PM
Would Manor College be a possibility, if they get approved for provisional membership?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2021, 03:00:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2021, 06:48:48 PM
Maybe Gallaudet could be an option, but Eastern is a good idea as well especially since they were part of the initial eight to come up with the idea of the AEC (then backed out, then were in, and then back out, then ...). The football factor would be significant, though, in keeping them where they are.

I think this was Arcadia, wasn't it? But Eastern has a lot of the OLDPAC DNA that the current AEC members have.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2021, 03:12:21 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 18, 2021, 02:38:09 PM
Would Manor College be a possibility, if they get approved for provisional membership?

I don't think Manor is one that is attractive, but in some ways beggars can maybe not be choosers.

I am told that Manor has been interested in being in the CSAC, which I am sure the conference would like as well especially considering location.

However, Manor also doesn't have a lot of experience especially in DIII (as they are entering their provisional year soon). Bringing on a member who has little experience can sometimes be more of a headache or challenge than many conferences want to deal with. Manor would probably better off joining the C2C (CAC/ACAA merger) not because of the competition, but because of the mentoring and guiding members in the C2C can give Manor for a few years before they join another conference. That will basically be the roll of the C2C for a number of members in the near future most likely.

In terms of "ranking" from bottom up for a school like Manor in terms of joining in their area, not counting C2C to make this easier, it likely would go this way:

- NEAC
- CSAC
- AEC or MAC

And I think that if Manor was in the CSAC then the AEC might be more interested in Manor.

But again ... maybe AEC decides they need membership ASAP and just pull the rip cord and invite Manor.

A lot of this is why I thought the better landing place for St. Mary's when departing the CAC was the AEC and NOT the NEAC. I think SMC has the make-up and such that would have allowed a "state school" to enter any of these conferences like AEC or CSAC (maybe even MACs if needed). Certainly a better chance than SAL, CNU, or UMU ever have.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2021, 03:00:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2021, 06:48:48 PM
Maybe Gallaudet could be an option, but Eastern is a good idea as well especially since they were part of the initial eight to come up with the idea of the AEC (then backed out, then were in, and then back out, then ...). The football factor would be significant, though, in keeping them where they are.

I think this was Arcadia, wasn't it? But Eastern has a lot of the OLDPAC DNA that the current AEC members have.

Crap - you are right. I've been flipping things in my head too much or late.

I do think Eastern could be an interesting choice, though the football angle would end that thought.

But I did mean Arcadia - who I also believe could be a member in the MAC who may finally decide to do what they apparently intended a few years ago.

Sorry for any confusion based on my mistake.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2021, 08:09:33 AM

Not that its official yet or anything, but this article makes it sound pretty darn certain: Becker likely to close this summer.  I suspect this will be the first of many similar articles coming.

https://www.wbjournal.com/article/becker-college-planning-for-potential-closure

If this happens, the NECC will be down to 5 men's programs next year and six for women, with Elms leaving the year after that.  It's becoming pretty close to not really being a conference anymore.  Although, I suspect, with whatever other closures are on the horizon, the NE shuffling will be a little more complex.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2021, 01:28:30 PM


https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2021/03/averett-shuffling-off-to-odac
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
So that goes on the list for the fall of 2022.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on March 08, 2021, 01:59:40 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2021, 08:09:33 AM

Not that its official yet or anything, but this article makes it sound pretty darn certain: Becker likely to close this summer.  I suspect this will be the first of many similar articles coming.

https://www.wbjournal.com/article/becker-college-planning-for-potential-closure

If this happens, the NECC will be down to 5 men's programs next year and six for women, with Elms leaving the year after that.  It's becoming pretty close to not really being a conference anymore.  Although, I suspect, with whatever other closures are on the horizon, the NE shuffling will be a little more complex.

It is an interesting strategy to get out ahead of the announcement and say you are thinking about closing while admitted that you have ended all recruitment activities and that you are unlikely to yield students you have admitted and will prompt current students to begin looking for other options. It would have worked for Sweet Briar, but for Becker...

Yeah, they are closing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2021, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 08, 2021, 01:59:40 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2021, 08:09:33 AM

Not that its official yet or anything, but this article makes it sound pretty darn certain: Becker likely to close this summer.  I suspect this will be the first of many similar articles coming.

https://www.wbjournal.com/article/becker-college-planning-for-potential-closure

If this happens, the NECC will be down to 5 men's programs next year and six for women, with Elms leaving the year after that.  It's becoming pretty close to not really being a conference anymore.  Although, I suspect, with whatever other closures are on the horizon, the NE shuffling will be a little more complex.

It is an interesting strategy to get out ahead of the announcement and say you are thinking about closing while admitted that you have ended all recruitment activities and that you are unlikely to yield students you have admitted and will prompt current students to begin looking for other options. It would have worked for Sweet Briar, but for Becker...

Yeah, they are closing.

I believe this was driven by Accreditation and the State of Massachusetts.  They didn't want a repeat of some of the past closures. where clear directions were never given and students were caught off-guard.  This message is pretty clear.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 17, 2021, 06:36:57 PM
The Coast 2 Coast loses another one, at least in certain women's sports (not basketball). RIP Mills College.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/03/17/mills-college-long-struggling-close#.YFKARFV5FmM.twitter
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 18, 2021, 12:47:00 AM
The February membership committee report is out: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2021D3Memb_Report.pdf

Asbury and Johnson & Wales (NC) were accepted for exploratory membership. Manor's application for provisional membership was denied.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: monsoon on March 18, 2021, 10:15:45 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 18, 2021, 12:47:00 AM
The February membership committee report is out: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2021D3Memb_Report.pdf

Asbury and Johnson & Wales (NC) were accepted for exploratory membership. Manor's application for provisional membership was denied.

Is there any sense yet where Asbury or Johnson & Wales (NC) may land conference wise?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 18, 2021, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: monsoon on March 18, 2021, 10:15:45 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 18, 2021, 12:47:00 AM
The February membership committee report is out: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2021D3Memb_Report.pdf

Asbury and Johnson & Wales (NC) were accepted for exploratory membership. Manor's application for provisional membership was denied.

Is there any sense yet where Asbury or Johnson & Wales (NC) may land conference wise?

Coast 2 Coast or USA South (or offshoot thereof) I would imagine, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2021, 10:59:08 PM
Not for Asbury. The likely place for that school to land would be the HCAC, although I think that the SLIAC would do in a pinch.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: monsoon on March 19, 2021, 11:35:43 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2021, 10:59:08 PM
Not for Asbury. The likely place for that school to land would be the HCAC, although I think that the SLIAC would do in a pinch.

Heartland would make sense. Right now, the four KY schools are in four different conferences, and Thomas More was in yet a fifth when they were still D3
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
Honestly, I'm surprised that it's taken Asbury this long to join D3. It's a much better fit for D3 than it is for NAIA.

Of course, Kentucky and Tennessee have been NAIA-centric since time immemorial, so there's that to consider.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on March 19, 2021, 11:48:21 PM
I wonder if Asbury intends to remain in its NAIA conference the way Nebraska Wesleyan did, or is that not allowed anymore.


Are they not a fit for the SAA?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 21, 2021, 05:50:50 PM
So can someone post an updated list of conference changes for next year? I don't know if anything changed because of Covid-19, delays etc. I've basically been M.I.A. all season. Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on March 22, 2021, 01:01:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2021, 10:59:08 PM
Not for Asbury. The likely place for that school to land would be the HCAC, although I think that the SLIAC would do in a pinch.

Interesting thought on the SLIAC.

The SLIAC center of gravity is moving south and east with the departure of Iowa Wesleyan and the closing of MacMurray.  They will have 8 teams, but in this environment, they may be thrilled to add another team.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 22, 2021, 01:01:44 PMInteresting thought on the SLIAC.

The SLIAC center of gravity is moving south and east with the departure of Iowa Wesleyan and the closing of MacMurray.  They will have 8 teams, but in this environment, they may be thrilled to add another team.

What I was thinking of the most is that the SLIAC would probably love to have a travel partner for Spaulding. Although Spaulding has been in the league for quite some time now, the school's location is well east of the SLIAC's geographic footprint, and having a travel partner might be a way to allay some of the difficulty that Spaulding's location presents to the rest of the league.

The HCAC is already spread out between Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky, so this would be yet another long bus trip among many for the likes of, say, Bluffton, Anderson, and Defiance. Nevertheless, Asbury's nearest collegiate neighbor (aside from UK) is HCAC member Transylvania, which is only a half-hour drive northeast of the Asbury campus in Wilmore, KY. That's a rivalry just waiting to happen. Heck, for all I know, it may even have been a rivalry back during Transy's two-decade sojourn in the NAIA, since both were members of the KIAC (now rebranded as the River States Conference).

The one obstacle Asbury will inevitably face, regardless of which D3 league (if any) it would join, would be finding a home for its newly-minted women's lacrosse program. Neither the HCAC nor the SLIAC sponsors that sport. In fact, the River States Conference doesn't sponsor it, either; the Eagles are forced to participate in a different NAIA conference in women's lacrosse.

I think it'd come down to which of the two D3 leagues would want to add Asbury, if, in fact, either one of them does. I agree with you that it would be a good add for the SLIAC, given the tenuous status of some of that league's membership. I don't think that adding Asbury would hurt the HCAC any, either. It seems to be financially solid and is academically respectable, with a more-than-adequate array of sports offered.

Quote from: sac on March 19, 2021, 11:48:21 PM
I wonder if Asbury intends to remain in its NAIA conference the way Nebraska Wesleyan did, or is that not allowed anymore.

I'm not sure whether or not it's still allowed by both the NCAA and NAIA. But it's a hard-to-justify expense for a small school to pay annual dues to an umbrella organization in which it doesn't even participate. And if Asbury could get into, say, the SLIAC or the HCAC, there would no longer be a need for the Eagles to stay in the River States Conference and the NAIA.

Quote from: sac on March 19, 2021, 11:48:21 PM
Are they not a fit for the SAA?

I can't say this definitively, but my impression is that Asbury wouldn't be considered academically select enough to be accepted for SAA membership. It appears to me to be a good school (and I can add anecdotally that the handful of Asbury grads I know would reflect that assessment), but I know how zealously leagues such as the SAA guard their collective academic reputations.

On the other hand, the SAA could be a good home for Asbury's women's lacrosse program. The SAA sponsors that sport, and that league includes other schools as affiliate members for specific sports (Concordia WI and Transylvania for field hockey, and Austin College for football).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: huskereddy on March 22, 2021, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
The one obstacle Asbury will inevitably face, regardless of which D3 league (if any) it would join, would be finding a home for its newly-minted women's lacrosse program. Neither the HCAC nor the SLIAC sponsors that sport. In fact, the River States Conference doesn't sponsor it, either; the Eagles are forced to participate in a different NAIA conference in women's lacrosse.
While not directly sponsoring WLAX, the HCAC provides the admin support for the single-sport men's HCLC and women's HCLC. Asbury would get the HCAC to seven women's programs and they could bring the women 100% in-house and not have to wait for their AQ. No MLAX at Asbury, so the HCAC gets no help there.

USA South wouldn't be 100% out of the question. Berea's only about an hour away -- bit of a winding path, though, and nothing Kentucky-adjacent like MSJ or Hanover. Could probably get to 7 of 10 HCAC schools in the same time you'd get to the next closest USA South school other than Berea (Maryville-TN)

Spalding could make a nice two-fer IF the Heartland wanted them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Quote from: huskereddy on March 22, 2021, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
The one obstacle Asbury will inevitably face, regardless of which D3 league (if any) it would join, would be finding a home for its newly-minted women's lacrosse program. Neither the HCAC nor the SLIAC sponsors that sport. In fact, the River States Conference doesn't sponsor it, either; the Eagles are forced to participate in a different NAIA conference in women's lacrosse.
While not directly sponsoring WLAX, the HCAC provides the admin support for the single-sport men's HCLC and women's HCLC. Asbury would get the HCAC to seven women's programs and they could bring the women 100% in-house and not have to wait for their AQ. No MLAX at Asbury, so the HCAC gets no help there.

Well, there you go. Further proof that the HCAC would seem to be the ideal D3 home for Asbury.

Quote from: huskereddy on March 22, 2021, 03:55:29 PMUSA South wouldn't be 100% out of the question. Berea's only about an hour away -- bit of a winding path, though, and nothing Kentucky-adjacent like MSJ or Hanover. Could probably get to 7 of 10 HCAC schools in the same time you'd get to the next closest USA South school other than Berea (Maryville-TN)

That'd be an incredible amount of travel for Eagles teams -- most of it over the mountains, which even that far south I can't imagine is always an ideal scenario in the dead of winter.

Quote from: huskereddy on March 22, 2021, 03:55:29 PMSpalding could make a nice two-fer IF the Heartland wanted them.

Yeah, I suppose it could be the case that the two Kentucky schools would be more attractive as a two-fer. Does anybody know whether or not Spalding has previously sought HCAC membership? It would seem to be a no-brainer, but I don't want to assume anything.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on March 22, 2021, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
What I was thinking of the most is that the SLIAC would probably love to have a travel partner for Spaulding. Although Spaulding has been in the league for quite some time now, the school's location is well east of the SLIAC's geographic footprint, and having a travel partner might be a way to allay some of the difficulty that Spaulding's location presents to the rest of the league.

Understood.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on March 22, 2021, 09:05:03 PM
Darn Greg!!!   It's Spalding, not Spaulding!!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 10:51:09 PM
Sorry. Force of habit. I lived for years on North Spaulding Avenue here in Chicago, and that street also runs right through the NPU campus. In fact, I used to write a column for a Seattle newspaper, The Stranger, in which my nom de plume was "Captain Spaulding."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2021, 09:31:12 AM
Was he, by chance, an African explorer?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2021, 10:50:18 AM

There are a lot of options, I think, for Asbury.  Of course there will also be lots of moving conference parts between now and when they'll be in need of a conference.  Not to mention whatever further school closings happen this summer and the changes those precipitate.

If they can rope in Asbury, there's a pretty solid 8m/10w conference on the western side of the USAC that's a possibility - but travel partners with Transy or Spalding also make sense.  Who knows, maybe they lure TMU back and create some Kentucky conference? 

The landscape is going to be pretty fluid for a while, I suspect.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2021, 11:43:56 AM
I don't see Thomas More returning to the NCAA. Wouldn't they still have probation to serve? I forget the timing now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on March 23, 2021, 12:08:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2021, 10:51:09 PM
Sorry. Force of habit. I lived for years on North Spaulding Avenue here in Chicago, and that street also runs right through the NPU campus. In fact, I used to write a column for a Seattle newspaper, The Stranger, in which my nom de plume was "Captain Spaulding."

Captain Spaulding..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jaller on March 23, 2021, 04:11:42 PM
FWIW, Asbury and Transylvania were never in the KIAC at the same time. I was representing Asbury at the 1997 meeting where we accepted as KIAC members moments after Georgetown, Cumberland, Union and Campbellsville announced they were leaving the conference. In fact, they gave IU Southeast and us a few minutes to reevaluate our application given the massive upheaval of the day. We chose to join anyway, obviously. I believe Transylvania had left a long, long time prior to my arrival in 1994.
Even at the time, we were exploring possible D3 conference options but couldn't find a realistic home given the travel requirements, so we stuck with the NAIA, though we operated like a D3 for most of my time there. I had the opportunity to attend a game on campus this year for the first time in 12 years and I thought the new AD (whom I have never met) is doing a fantastic job. The outdoor facilities are greatly improved and the game environment is outstanding. I have no idea where they will end up conference wise because the same travel issues that existed in 1997 exist today (going over Jellico mountain in the winter can be a nightmare) but I think they are well positioned to be a solid member of whatever conference accepts them.
Thanks for the opportunity to stroll down memory lane, Greg. I have fond memories of  my days at the 'Bury.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2021, 08:20:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2021, 09:31:12 AM
Was he, by chance, an African explorer?

Funny you should ask. The name of my column was "Hooray For Me!"

Seriously.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2021, 08:22:52 PM
Quote from: jaller on March 23, 2021, 04:11:42 PM
FWIW, Asbury and Transylvania were never in the KIAC at the same time. I was representing Asbury at the 1997 meeting where we accepted as KIAC members moments after Georgetown, Cumberland, Union and Campbellsville announced they were leaving the conference. In fact, they gave IU Southeast and us a few minutes to reevaluate our application given the massive upheaval of the day. We chose to join anyway, obviously. I believe Transylvania had left a long, long time prior to my arrival in 1994.
Even at the time, we were exploring possible D3 conference options but couldn't find a realistic home given the travel requirements, so we stuck with the NAIA, though we operated like a D3 for most of my time there. I had the opportunity to attend a game on campus this year for the first time in 12 years and I thought the new AD (whom I have never met) is doing a fantastic job. The outdoor facilities are greatly improved and the game environment is outstanding. I have no idea where they will end up conference wise because the same travel issues that existed in 1997 exist today (going over Jellico mountain in the winter can be a nightmare) but I think they are well positioned to be a solid member of whatever conference accepts them.
Thanks for the opportunity to stroll down memory lane, Greg. I have fond memories of  my days at the 'Bury.

Good to hear from you again, Jim! I was thinking about you throughout this Asbury conversation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 23, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
was reading on InsideHigherEd today about Ripon and Marian exploring a collaboration - which they were quick to say was not a merger.

Said it would involve academic and co-curricular activities. Wonder what that might mean for athletics. Marian sponsors every sport Ripon does except football and m/w swimming & diving. The two schools apparently only have 2,000 undergrads combined.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 23, 2021, 11:12:08 PM
My question is, how would that affect Marian's current affiliation with the NACC?  Ripon is not in the NACC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 29, 2021, 03:35:55 PM
Confirming what we already pretty much knew, Becker officially announced it is closing this summer.

Quasi-related note: Did Dean College count towards the 7 minimum members for an AQ during their final year in the NECC (2019-20)? They didn't become tournament eligible themselves until 7/1/20 and their switch to the GNAC.

There's one or two sports where the NECC goes right to pool B next year if Dean didn't count.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2021, 06:17:56 PM
My understanding under the old four-year system is that third- and fourth-year provisional programs count toward your membership for that purpose.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 29, 2021, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2021, 06:17:56 PM
My understanding under the old four-year system is that third- and fourth-year provisional programs count toward your membership for that purpose.

thanks Pat. So if my counting on my fingers is right, maybe they have a year or two of runway but eventually soon all NECC sports will wind up in Pool B. One wonders if the conference will even survive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 30, 2021, 08:10:35 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 29, 2021, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2021, 06:17:56 PM
My understanding under the old four-year system is that third- and fourth-year provisional programs count toward your membership for that purpose.

thanks Pat. So if my counting on my fingers is right, maybe they have a year or two of runway but eventually soon all NECC sports will wind up in Pool B. One wonders if the conference will even survive.

I suspect a lot of small NE leagues are waiting to see who else closes this summer before making next moves.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 30, 2021, 12:20:18 PM
Bumping this up.  There's still some approvals to be made official this spring - and I'm not sure what the new provisional structure means for teams already in the process, but from public information so far available:

"Presumptive" Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
*4th year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes


Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II (pending final NCAA DII Membership Committee approval)
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 30, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
My impression is that the 3-year structure applies to teams already in the process, though I can't remember exactly how I arrived at that conclusion.

Incidentally, as Ryan alluded to above, per the March report (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Mar2021D3Memb_Report.pdf), Asbury is skipping the exploratory year and going straight to Year 1 of provisional membership.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 30, 2021, 07:23:25 PM

They've allowed a number of schools recently to skip a year in the process, so we may see that reflected when the formal report comes out.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 31, 2021, 01:47:37 AM
Okay, I figured out what gave me the impression.

https://www.delhibroncos.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200630gwrew3

QuoteINDIANAPOLIS, Ind. (June 30, 2020) - The NCAA Division III Membership Committee announced that it has advanced SUNY Delhi to its third and final year of provisional membership entering the 2020-21 year. The committee communicated that SUNY Delhi has fulfilled all requirements for provisional membership for the 2019-20 academic year. The Broncos are scheduled to become eligible for full-time membership by the 2021-22 season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 31, 2021, 09:28:37 AM
Some 12 years ago SUNY-Delhi had a player named Shataya McComb on its' roster for 2 years. She then transferred to Alverno and hit a classic game-ending buzzer-beater during her time there. It's still on YouTube.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 08, 2021, 08:31:40 AM
Elms moving up its departure from the NECC to the GNAC to this summer. Hastens the demise of the NECC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on April 08, 2021, 09:49:10 PM
Remind me– how many schools does a conference need to have in order to remain in the grace period rather than immediately falling into Pool B? This puts the NECC at 4 for men's sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2021, 10:05:08 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on April 08, 2021, 09:49:10 PM
Remind me– how many schools does a conference need to have in order to remain in the grace period rather than immediately falling into Pool B? This puts the NECC at 4 for men's sports.

I think it's 5. The NECC does have affiliate members in some sports, but they're clearly going to have to do something this summer. Everybody left would fit fine in the GNAC (other than Bay Path, which isn't really a good fit anywhere) it's just whether the GNAC wants to be accommodating or that large.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on April 09, 2021, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2021, 10:05:08 PM
Everybody left would fit fine in the GNAC (other than Bay Path, which isn't really a good fit anywhere) it's just whether the GNAC wants to be accommodating or that large.

The NEWMAC and Commonwealth Coast would be good fits for Bay Path. The NEWMAC has three schools that are within 25 miles of Bay Path and 3 women's colleges. Plus now, it's a matter of survival. You need numbers to keep your conference active, especially when it's pretty much a given that small liberal arts colleges will be closing in the foreseeable future. All of the conferences with 7 or 8 members are probably exploring expansion.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 10, 2021, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on April 09, 2021, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2021, 10:05:08 PM
Everybody left would fit fine in the GNAC (other than Bay Path, which isn't really a good fit anywhere) it's just whether the GNAC wants to be accommodating or that large.

The NEWMAC and Commonwealth Coast would be good fits for Bay Path. The NEWMAC has three schools that are within 25 miles of Bay Path and 3 women's colleges. Plus now, it's a matter of survival. You need numbers to keep your conference active, especially when it's pretty much a given that small liberal arts colleges will be closing in the foreseeable future. All of the conferences with 7 or 8 members are probably exploring expansion.

I was just assuming, with Bay Path being the only women's only school in NE not in the NEWMAC, that the NEWMAC didn't want them.  Not having men's sports makes them a difficult fit for a lot of conferences.  I suspect, as you say, there will be consolidation again after the summer, when we see which NECC and GNAC schools aren't around anymore.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on April 23, 2021, 06:52:12 PM
 Hartford said to be considering moving to D3 from D1.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on April 26, 2021, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: ronk on April 23, 2021, 06:52:12 PM
Hartford said to be considering moving to D3 from D1.

https://www.hartford.edu/about/campus-leadership/office-president/_files/Hartford-Feasibility-Study_CarrSports.pdf (https://www.hartford.edu/about/campus-leadership/office-president/_files/Hartford-Feasibility-Study_CarrSports.pdf)

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 26, 2021, 10:32:01 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on April 26, 2021, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: ronk on April 23, 2021, 06:52:12 PM
Hartford said to be considering moving to D3 from D1.

https://www.hartford.edu/about/campus-leadership/office-president/_files/Hartford-Feasibility-Study_CarrSports.pdf (https://www.hartford.edu/about/campus-leadership/office-president/_files/Hartford-Feasibility-Study_CarrSports.pdf)

Very strong language there - a move to d3 is the only longterm viable option for Hartford.  Not even a "best of available options" caveat.  Also, is the a similar d3 school in New England that generates $600,000 in revenue outside student fees?  That seems very optimistic to me.  Maybe I'm just wildly uninformed about ticket sales and sponsorship value?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on April 26, 2021, 10:45:04 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on April 26, 2021, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: ronk on April 23, 2021, 06:52:12 PM
Hartford said to be considering moving to D3 from D1.

https://www.hartford.edu/about/campus-leadership/office-president/_files/Hartford-Feasibility-Study_CarrSports.pdf (https://www.hartford.edu/about/campus-leadership/office-president/_files/Hartford-Feasibility-Study_CarrSports.pdf)

Nice study for anyone contemplating a move to/from the LEC, CCC, and/or the NEWMAC, whether D1 or D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2021, 11:44:44 AM
Quote from: ronk on April 23, 2021, 06:52:12 PM
Hartford said to be considering moving to D3 from D1.

It wouldn't surprise me if Hartford's president, Gregory Woodward, is a backer of this proposal, as he has strong D3 ties. He was first a dean and then provost at Ithaca (which is also where he earned his master's degree), and he served as the president of Carthage before taking the position at Hartford.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 26, 2021, 04:47:51 PM
A friend of mine used to be the financial advisor to the provost at the University of Hartford. 

They have been seriously thinking about major changes to varsity athletics for at least 20 years.

Interestingly, the Hartford president played Division I soccer at the University of Connecticut.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 26, 2021, 05:31:55 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2021, 11:44:44 AM
Quote from: ronk on April 23, 2021, 06:52:12 PM
Hartford said to be considering moving to D3 from D1.

It wouldn't surprise me if Hartford's president, Gregory Woodward, is a backer of this proposal, as he has strong D3 ties. He was first a dean and then provost at Ithaca (which is also where he earned his master's degree), and he served as the president of Carthage before taking the position at Hartford.

It's pretty much Woodward's solo project, as a matter of fact. It and he have quickly become extremely unpopular in the campus community and with Connecticut media.

Honestly, I don't think D3 is the right fit for the University of Hartford. Very short-sighted of them not to consider Division II and the Northeast 10 Conference which contains almost all similar size/scope schools. Staying D1 and seeking an invitation to switch from America East to MAAC would also be a better idea.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 26, 2021, 08:18:02 PM

They looked at the MAAC. It's in the report. The bottom line seems to be: are you prepared to pay an extra $6-9m per year to stay d1?  D2 isn't going cost much less.  You're going to be losing money no matter where you are, the question is just about how much.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 01, 2021, 02:34:08 PM
Bump

"Presumptive" Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
*4th year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II (pending final NCAA DII Membership Committee approval)
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 01, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Elms is moving early.  I fixed it.

"Presumptive" Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
*4th year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II (pending final NCAA DII Membership Committee approval)
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on May 06, 2021, 11:09:42 PM
Well, there it is. https://twitter.com/jeffjacobs123/status/1390469970304372740
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on May 07, 2021, 04:14:41 AM
UHart already have a transition page (https://www.hartford.edu/about/athletics-transition.aspx)

They won't file their intent until January 2022.
Their plan is full D3 member for the 25-26 season.

I'm a little unclear on the provisional pipeline, they plan to stay D1 for the next two seasons (obviously next year since they haven't filed yet but 22-23 as well) then only 2 years of provisional pipeline?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on May 07, 2021, 04:31:18 AM
This little tidbit caught my attention
QuoteHow much money will UHart save because of this decision?
The decision to move to DIII intercollegiate athletics is to align the University's mission and goals to their athletic offerings. For that reason, this decision isn't based in savings and instead is focused on opportunities for more athletic and wellness opportunities for all students.

Seems like financials were somewhat important in the feasibility study

QuoteFinancially, one of the primary goals of the Task Force report is to reduce Athletics' costs and maintain financial stability.
Three of the "six overarching assumptions" were money based.
Quote• UHart will implement a substantial reduction in institutional funding for Athletics seeking a more financially self-sustainable Athletics model. The current Division I funding model is not sustainable.
• Athletics' contribution to UHart's enrollment management goals will include generating a significant increase in
net tuition revenues from student-athlete enrollment. Present student-athlete net tuition revenues are
negligible.
• Athletics' expenses, along with UHart's student-athlete financial aid discount rate (around 94%), are inconsistent
with UHart's institutional size and operating capacity, and run significantly counter to the University's general
student population discount rate.

I don't have a problem with them moving for financial reasons (honestly more schools should at least consider it), but don't act like it wasn't a factor.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on May 07, 2021, 10:07:19 AM
On the question of how much Hartford will save by moving to D3, this ESPN article says: "Last month, a University of Hartford athletics feasibility study, commissioned by school president Gregory Woodward and conducted by the consulting firm CarrSports, was made public. The study indicated the school would save $9.2 million per year by going from Division I to Division III."

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31402209/hartford-athletics-transitioning-division-division-iii
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 07, 2021, 10:08:50 AM
We called attention to the same discord between the University's statement that this isn't a financial decision and the study's focus on financial matters.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2021/05/hartford-heading-toward-d3
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 07, 2021, 10:18:36 AM

It's pretty clear there was a statement made/conversation had where the Board Chair says, "If we're going to do this, it can't just be about money; we have to be sure this is something that aligns with our mission."  That's a conversation on every board, ever.

Ultimately, the way money is used is an issue of mission.  You can't split the two.  The question will be how they use that $9m saved.  If they're really investing that in the larger student body, clearly you can see how its a mission fit.  We're not really privy to the other side of the conversation.

If they're just pocketing that money and lowering the annual budget, that's a different decision.  We just don't know.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 09, 2021, 06:40:52 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 07, 2021, 10:08:50 AM
We called attention to the same discord between the University's statement that this isn't a financial decision and the study's focus on financial matters.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2021/05/hartford-heading-toward-d3
Thanks for the 2009 Centenary "shout-out"! +1!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 18, 2021, 09:25:03 AM
Bump with an update (https://www.sliac.org/general/2020-21/releases/20210607u3oixj?fbclid=IwAR20W8KBl11d7p86WpOxY1-l74Fd_1dICbTJv4wS1by2iaGMTrAMotm03Jw)

"Presumptive" Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
*4th year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II (pending final NCAA DII Membership Committee approval)
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 18, 2021, 11:19:30 AM
We also have Centenary (NJ) joining the AEC. It was made official yesterday(?) despite reports and such in the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 18, 2021, 12:18:47 PM
seems like an absolute "had to do it" move for Atlantic East to replace Wesley with literally anyone (that has both men's and women's sports) and keep as many AQs intact as possible.

CSAC has some numbers issues with a few other sports, but those weren't caused by Centenary leaving. I thought this would put them on the Pool B clock in baseball specifically, but it looks like Rosemont is adding baseball and keeping them at 7.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 18, 2021, 07:25:14 PM
I think we can safely assume now that the reduction to 3 provisional years is effective for those already in the pipeline. The release about MUW indicates they'll be a full D3 member in 2022.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 18, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 18, 2021, 12:18:47 PM
seems like an absolute "had to do it" move for Atlantic East to replace Wesley with literally anyone (that has both men's and women's sports) and keep as many AQs intact as possible.

CSAC has some numbers issues with a few other sports, but those weren't caused by Centenary leaving. I thought this would put them on the Pool B clock in baseball specifically, but it looks like Rosemont is adding baseball and keeping them at 7.

There's been lots of gossip about LBC going to the CSAC. Nothing official, but you'd think, if it were going to happen, this would move things along.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on June 19, 2021, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 18, 2021, 08:01:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 18, 2021, 12:18:47 PM
seems like an absolute "had to do it" move for Atlantic East to replace Wesley with literally anyone (that has both men's and women's sports) and keep as many AQs intact as possible.

CSAC has some numbers issues with a few other sports, but those weren't caused by Centenary leaving. I thought this would put them on the Pool B clock in baseball specifically, but it looks like Rosemont is adding baseball and keeping them at 7.

There's been lots of gossip about LBC going to the CSAC. Nothing official, but you'd think, if it were going to happen, this would move things along.

LBC also has a new AD coming in shortly and that might help with a move................given that the prior AD (great guy) ticked more than a few people off a couple of years ago when they were right on the precipice on moving and the opportunity was yanked from LBC as a result. If the new AD is the interim AD (doubtful), he is a big proponent of making a move as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 08, 2021, 01:42:13 AM
Bay Path is leaving D3 for the USCAA: https://www.baypath.edu/news/press-releases/details/bay-path-university-joins-united-states-collegiate-athletic-association/

The NECC is now down to 4 members for both genders.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 08, 2021, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 08, 2021, 01:42:13 AM
Bay Path is leaving D3 for the USCAA: https://www.baypath.edu/news/press-releases/details/bay-path-university-joins-united-states-collegiate-athletic-association/

The NECC is now down to 4 members for both genders.

Wow and they cut all but 3 sports too. Even axed basketball.

NECC is a dead conference walking.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 30, 2021, 07:54:37 PM
The June membership committee report is finally out. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/June2021D3Memb_Report.pdf

SUNY Delhi advances to active membership. Bob Jones and Warren Wilson advance to Year 2, St. Thomas (TX) to Year 3. MUW and Pratt must repeat Year 2. (Language in the report makes it clear that Year 4 is gone even for the schools already in the pipeline.)

EDIT: I just read the July report. (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/July2021D3Memb_Report.pdf) Pratt successfully appealed and will advance to Year 3 after all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 30, 2021, 09:23:20 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 08, 2021, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 08, 2021, 01:42:13 AM
Bay Path is leaving D3 for the USCAA: https://www.baypath.edu/news/press-releases/details/bay-path-university-joins-united-states-collegiate-athletic-association/

The NECC is now down to 4 members for both genders.

Wow and they cut all but 3 sports too. Even axed basketball.

NECC is a dead conference walking.

Can the remaining 4 members of the NECC move into the 12-member GNAC? (12. Have I missed a school closure?) I do not see any other likely option.

MASCAC and LEC are state schools.
NAC has geographic challenges.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 30, 2021, 09:26:51 PM
MUW to the SLIAC? Wow, there is a 7-hour road trip.
But Columbus MS is in the middle of D3-Nowhere.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 31, 2021, 12:06:54 PM
GNAC is now 14 schools in total, 13 for M/W basketball. (Simmons is a women's-only school, they dropped hoops a couple years back).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 01, 2021, 06:55:57 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury?
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)?

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II (pending final NCAA DII Membership Committee approval)
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 02, 2021, 01:51:08 PM
NEAC rebranded today as the United East Conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 02, 2021, 02:41:09 PM
Watch the hype video on their front page (https://gounitedeast.com/index.aspx) and take note of who tweeted about the name change.

There's one very interesting person in there.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 02, 2021, 04:21:05 PM
Made a few edits regarding committee approvals and added a couple moves that were missing.

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 02, 2021, 09:41:40 PM
Thanks Inkblot! +1
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 02, 2021, 10:35:49 PM
What he said. +1
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 03, 2021, 11:26:24 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 02, 2021, 02:41:09 PM
Watch the hype video on their front page (https://gounitedeast.com/index.aspx) and take note of who tweeted about the name change.

There's one very interesting person in there.

"The United East Conference ... now faster and, uh, furiouser!"
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 03, 2021, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 02, 2021, 02:41:09 PM
Watch the hype video on their front page (https://gounitedeast.com/index.aspx) and take note of who tweeted about the name change.

There's one very interesting person in there.
Which one is the interesting one? Drake? Vin Diesel? Owen Wilson?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 04, 2021, 12:18:41 PM
Greg got it. I didn't see the other two, but I'm not on Twitter.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on August 11, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 02, 2021, 04:21:05 PM
Made a few edits regarding committee approvals and added a couple moves that were missing.

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC

With the introduction of regional changes this year, is anyone up to the challenge of making a list of those changes? The 2 new regions would have all additions since they didn't exist previously, but the other 8 would have subtractions and additions as conferences/schools were shifted for balance. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 12:45:07 PM

Dave is breaking news on twitter right now that Allegheny will move to the President's Conference in 22-23.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: ronk on August 11, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 02, 2021, 04:21:05 PM
Made a few edits regarding committee approvals and added a couple moves that were missing.

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker is closing, removed from NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC

With the introduction of regional changes this year, is anyone up to the challenge of making a list of those changes? The 2 new regions would have all additions since they didn't exist previously, but the other 8 would have subtractions and additions as conferences/schools were shifted for balance.

I want to see some official final regions before I take on something like that.  3-4 schools have closed and a bunch moved since the last specific announcement of who is where - some of which mean the region that was already smallest got even smaller.  I'm not sure they won't try to make a few moves to better right-size the numbers.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on August 11, 2021, 01:51:55 PM
 Is there a meeting scheduled to address/finalize the realignment? Who does it, since there are separate committees for men and women in basketball and it should be a gender-independent question but probably sport-dependent?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: ronk on August 11, 2021, 01:51:55 PM
Is there a meeting scheduled to address/finalize the realignment? Who does it, since there are separate committees for men and women in basketball and it should be a gender-independent question but probably sport-dependent?

I know these get finalized above the individual sport committees, although they have a say in how they're constructed.  I'm sure, technically, mbb and wbb could have different regions, but I know they try pretty hard to make things as uniform as possible.  That being said, this whole process was done differently than previous realignments, so I'm not sure what the final version will look like.  The big issue is the likely non-existence of the NECC after this season.  Region II already had just 34 teams and they've lost three, by my count - putting them eight fewer than any other region.  If the remaining four teams end up in the GNAC or the NAC (the most likely landing spots) - that'll bring it down to 28, which is WAY too small to be fair.

A simple solution would be to switch the NECC and the MASCAC, which would provide a buffer for the NECC, but that's likely easier said than done, given how the NCAA functions for approvals.  No one wants to see the realignment out of whack before it even begins, but change is not always simple in a bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 12, 2021, 08:30:26 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 12:45:07 PM

Dave is breaking news on twitter right now that Allegheny will move to the President's Conference in 22-23.

I've always wondered why Allegheny has chosen not to be in the PAC...  It's a move that makes so much sense.... great rivalries with next door neighbors such as Grove City and Westminster.... the conference is one that gets little notice on these pages, but one that is a very pure D3 with its beautiful small town atmospheres...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 12, 2021, 09:10:58 AM
Quote from: hopefan on August 12, 2021, 08:30:26 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 12:45:07 PM

Dave is breaking news on twitter right now that Allegheny will move to the President's Conference in 22-23.

I've always wondered why Allegheny has chosen not to be in the PAC...  It's a move that makes so much sense.... great rivalries with next door neighbors such as Grove City and Westminster.... the conference is one that gets little notice on these pages, but one that is a very pure D3 with its beautiful small town atmospheres...

Probably had to do with NCAC being a stronger conference both in sports and academic rankings. I guess after nearly 40 years, the much shorter travel in the PAC, plus inability to keep up competitively with DePauw, Witt, Woo, Wabash, tipped the scales the other way.

EDIT: also the PAC has Case and Mellon in football, so obviously those academics are just as and probably more excellent.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 12, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: hopefan on August 12, 2021, 08:30:26 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 12:45:07 PM

Dave is breaking news on twitter right now that Allegheny will move to the President's Conference in 22-23.

I've always wondered why Allegheny has chosen not to be in the PAC.

This is actually a homecoming for Allegheny. The Gators were an early addition to the infant PAC, joining the league three years after it had been founded in 1955. Allegheny remained in the PAC for 25 years, leaving after the 1983-84 season to become one of the founding members of the NCAC.

Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 12, 2021, 09:10:58 AM
Quote from: hopefan on August 12, 2021, 08:30:26 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2021, 12:45:07 PM

Dave is breaking news on twitter right now that Allegheny will move to the President's Conference in 22-23.

I've always wondered why Allegheny has chosen not to be in the PAC...  It's a move that makes so much sense.... great rivalries with next door neighbors such as Grove City and Westminster.... the conference is one that gets little notice on these pages, but one that is a very pure D3 with its beautiful small town atmospheres...

Probably had to do with NCAC being a stronger conference both in sports and academic rankings. I guess after nearly 40 years, the much shorter travel in the PAC, plus inability to keep up competitively with DePauw, Witt, Woo, Wabash, tipped the scales the other way.

EDIT: also the PAC has Case and Mellon in football, so obviously those academics are just as and probably more excellent.

Well put, Caz. The whole principle of being in an academically elite D3 league is mitigated to some degree if it's too geographically spread out (unless you're talking about the UAA, with its unique protocol of sending proctors to fly with teams to other UAA cities in order to administer tests). How can you claim to put academics first if your student-athletes have to spend so many hours on long busrides to other conference campuses? Losing Allegheny will probably be seen as a plus by the likes of Indiana-based Wabash and DePauw, regardless of Allegheny's relative athletic competitiveness.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 12, 2021, 08:36:49 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 12, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
The whole principle of being in an academically elite D3 league is mitigated to some degree if it's too geographically spread out (unless you're talking about the UAA, with its unique protocol of sending proctors to fly with teams to other UAA cities in order to administer tests).

I don't think that happens.

A team loses one school day playing against the travel partner and approximately two days for each Friday / Sunday road trip so we are only talking 6-7 school days away from home during league play.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
So the NECC is really down to just 5 teams? Sorry, been out of the loop for the last year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 14, 2021, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
So the NECC is really down to just 5 teams? Sorry, been out of the loop for the last year.

worse than that...4.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on August 14, 2021, 11:46:08 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
So the NECC is really down to just 5 teams? Sorry, been out of the loop for the last year.

NECC only has 4 teams left.  (Lesley, E. Nazarene, Mitchell, and NE College.) 

Dean and Elms are now in GNAC; Bay Path left the NCAA; Becker closed for good at the end of June.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Ok. Thanks. In the teams by region page, Becker was still listed.

I'm hoping that's the only mistake! I posted all the conferences and teams in the fantasy league board based on the teams by region pages.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 14, 2021, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Ok. Thanks. In the teams by region page, Becker was still listed.

I'm hoping that's the only mistake! I posted all the conferences and teams in the fantasy league board based on the teams by region pages.

I just looked over the list, and there were just a few errors I noticed:

* Manhattanville has moved from the MAC Freedom to the Skyline
* Lynchburg is missing from the list
* Asbury is a year-1 provisional D3 member (independent)
* Wesley athletics no longer exist due to acquisition by Delaware State
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 14, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 14, 2021, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Ok. Thanks. In the teams by region page, Becker was still listed.

I'm hoping that's the only mistake! I posted all the conferences and teams in the fantasy league board based on the teams by region pages.

I just looked over the list, and there were just a few errors I noticed:

* Manhattanville has moved from the MAC Freedom to the Skyline
* Lynchburg is missing from the list
* Asbury is a year-1 provisional D3 member (independent)
* Wesley athletics no longer exist due to acquisition by Delaware State

We've been debating how to best organize those regional pages with the realignment happening - they should be updated soon.

As far as I know, the NECC is planning to play a triple round robin for basketball - nine conference games for each team - this year.  It's unlikely there will be an NECC after 2021-22.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 14, 2021, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 14, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 14, 2021, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Ok. Thanks. In the teams by region page, Becker was still listed.

I'm hoping that's the only mistake! I posted all the conferences and teams in the fantasy league board based on the teams by region pages.

I just looked over the list, and there were just a few errors I noticed:

* Manhattanville has moved from the MAC Freedom to the Skyline
* Lynchburg is missing from the list
* Asbury is a year-1 provisional D3 member (independent)
* Wesley athletics no longer exist due to acquisition by Delaware State

We've been debating how to best organize those regional pages with the realignment happening - they should be updated soon.

As far as I know, the NECC is planning to play a triple round robin for basketball - nine conference games for each team - this year.  It's unlikely there will be an NECC after 2021-22.

Ryan, you seem to be more plugged in than most on this conference, so what do you think will become of the remaining four schools? Will they go somewhere together or go their own separate ways?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 14, 2021, 05:29:27 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on August 12, 2021, 08:36:49 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 12, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
The whole principle of being in an academically elite D3 league is mitigated to some degree if it's too geographically spread out (unless you're talking about the UAA, with its unique protocol of sending proctors to fly with teams to other UAA cities in order to administer tests).

I don't think that happens.

A team loses one school day playing against the travel partner and approximately two days for each Friday / Sunday road trip so we are only talking 6-7 school days away from home during league play.

Chicago, at least, has proctors accompany its teams. I'll admit that I probably overstepped my UAA knowledge base in assuming that other conference schools do it, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 14, 2021, 07:03:22 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 14, 2021, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 14, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 14, 2021, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Ok. Thanks. In the teams by region page, Becker was still listed.

I'm hoping that's the only mistake! I posted all the conferences and teams in the fantasy league board based on the teams by region pages.

I just looked over the list, and there were just a few errors I noticed:

* Manhattanville has moved from the MAC Freedom to the Skyline
* Lynchburg is missing from the list
* Asbury is a year-1 provisional D3 member (independent)
* Wesley athletics no longer exist due to acquisition by Delaware State

We've been debating how to best organize those regional pages with the realignment happening - they should be updated soon.

As far as I know, the NECC is planning to play a triple round robin for basketball - nine conference games for each team - this year.  It's unlikely there will be an NECC after 2021-22.

Ryan, you seem to be more plugged in than most on this conference, so what do you think will become of the remaining four schools? Will they go somewhere together or go their own separate ways?

I have no direct knowledge, but I believe pretty strongly they've exhausted their options when it comes to attracting new teams. I get the distinct feeling it's every school for themselves. This is pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of them rode out a year or two in the C2C waiting for the next shuffle to happen. We'll probably see more movement in NE when Hartford picks a conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 14, 2021, 07:48:04 PM
Ryan, which conference do you see as the best mission/vision match for Hartford?

I found this article in Hartford Courant.

https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-clb-uhart-athletics-20210417-20210416-k7mdbwbgiraopn2lktdwzebxwi-story.html

(CCC, NEWMAC or possibly the LEC)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 09:36:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 14, 2021, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 14, 2021, 12:09:00 PM
Ok. Thanks. In the teams by region page, Becker was still listed.

I'm hoping that's the only mistake! I posted all the conferences and teams in the fantasy league board based on the teams by region pages.

I just looked over the list, and there were just a few errors I noticed:

* Manhattanville has moved from the MAC Freedom to the Skyline
* Lynchburg is missing from the list
* Asbury is a year-1 provisional D3 member (independent)
* Wesley athletics no longer exist due to acquisition by Delaware State

Thanks!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 15, 2021, 09:12:30 PM
Thanks.

I made the corrections to Wesley, Lynchburg, Manhattanville and Becker.

We don't usually post first-year provisional so the Jukes of Asbury will have to wait a year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 15, 2021, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 14, 2021, 07:48:04 PM
Ryan, which conference do you see as the best mission/vision match for Hartford?

I found this article in Hartford Courant.

https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-clb-uhart-athletics-20210417-20210416-k7mdbwbgiraopn2lktdwzebxwi-story.html

(CCC, NEWMAC or possibly the LEC)

They'd love to be in the NEWMAC, but I don't think that's happening. I'm hearing possibly the CCC with one other school, likely out of the GNAC to keep numbers even.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Baldini on August 16, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

Over time that could have a huge effect on the Pool C teams.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 16, 2021, 11:58:56 AM
Quote from: Baldini on August 16, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

Over time that could have a huge effect on the Pool C teams.

If you notice, the USAC was a sponsor of this move, which supports the wide speculation they're looking to split into two conferences. This would help that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 16, 2021, 12:07:01 PM
USA South could split into three conferences with six teams each, at least on the women's side. They now have 18 members with Southern Virginia joining the party. I wouldn't be surprised if Bob Jones or Warren Wilson landed there, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Baldini on August 16, 2021, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 16, 2021, 12:07:01 PM
USA South could split into three conferences with six teams each, at least on the women's side. They now have 18 members with Southern Virginia joining the party. I wouldn't be surprised if Bob Jones or Warren Wilson landed there, too.

And Asbury in time?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 16, 2021, 02:14:19 PM
Good point. Them too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 16, 2021, 03:36:46 PM
That could make it awkward for sports that are already at the maximum bracket size. I'm pretty sure there are enough D3 football teams to have more than 32 six-team conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 17, 2021, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 16, 2021, 03:36:46 PM
That could make it awkward for sports that are already at the maximum bracket size. I'm pretty sure there are enough D3 football teams to have more than 32 six-team conferences.

I'm not sure it'll really matter.  I think you've going to see some major structural changes with this new NCAA Constitution.  Lots of things will be very different in the future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 15, 2021, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 14, 2021, 07:48:04 PM
Ryan, which conference do you see as the best mission/vision match for Hartford?

I found this article in Hartford Courant.

https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-clb-uhart-athletics-20210417-20210416-k7mdbwbgiraopn2lktdwzebxwi-story.html

(CCC, NEWMAC or possibly the LEC)

They'd love to be in the NEWMAC, but I don't think that's happening. I'm hearing possibly the CCC with one other school, likely out of the GNAC to keep numbers even.
My thoughts as well.

Getting into the same conference as MIT is a good sound bite for the alums.  Eight in the NEWMAC is a nice round number.

They'd love to be in the NEWMAC, but I don't think that's happening. I'm hearing possibly the CCC with one other school, likely out of the GNAC to keep numbers even.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 18, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
Thomas More announced today that they're applying to D2. What were the issues that led to them leaving the PAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Baldini on August 18, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 18, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
Thomas More announced today that they're applying to D2. What were the issues that led to them leaving the PAC?

They are currently a NAIA school.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 18, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
I'm aware, I was just trying to remember why they left D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 18, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
I'm aware, I was just trying to remember why they left D3.
https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2021, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

I would really hate to see this. I'd rather see the minimum upped to 8.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2021, 07:37:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2021, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

I would really hate to see this. I'd rather see the minimum upped to 8.

A higher number makes sense in basketball, but I know a lot of conferences are struggling to keep seven participants for lots of other sports.  With so many d3 schools being so small, they're all wanting to make different decisions, strategically, on which sports they offer and its definitely messing with conferences.

I suspect, if there's detrimental repercussions to a new NCAA constitution for d3, it'll likely end up with the division sponsoring fewer championships.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd
MASCAC is vulnerable with Mass Maritime which does not have Men's or Women's Hoops.

Dropping down to 6 would impact Pool C bids.  Thank the powers that be for USA South and all of their women's teams in Hoops.
Those teams in Pool B for bids would "steal" Pool C bids if the threshold is 6.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 18, 2021, 10:56:46 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd

It could be that the HCAC is contemplating admitting Asbury, and has another (heretofore unknown) school interested in joining that would up the membership to a dozen, making a split an attractive prospect.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 19, 2021, 01:11:46 AM

You also have to look at sponsorship numbers in other sports. A conference with ten members might only have six sponsiring LAX or swimming or whatever.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 19, 2021, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd

I know I'm still speaking mostly from a basketball perspective, but these leagues are all in relatively densely populated areas of D3. The result of going down to 6 minimum would be more automatic access for schools in these areas at the expense of at-large bids of everyone else. The exception is probably areas of the USA South, but as mentioned, they're already big enough to split if they wanted to.

Schools in these regions of the country should generally be able to find a league sponsoring football or LAX or whatever.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 19, 2021, 11:21:53 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 19, 2021, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd

I know I'm still speaking mostly from a basketball perspective, but these leagues are all in relatively densely populated areas of D3. The result of going down to 6 minimum would be more automatic access for schools in these areas at the expense of at-large bids of everyone else. The exception is probably areas of the USA South, but as mentioned, they're already big enough to split if they wanted to.

Schools in these regions of the country should generally be able to find a league sponsoring football or LAX or whatever.


Right, but schools do not want to be in multiple conferences if they don't have to - and conferences do not want members fraternizing with other leagues.  I'm not defending it - it's just that it makes sense from the perspective of some of the smaller, less resourced schools and conferences.

I also think they're setting themselves up for a potential pay to play scenario.  If D3 loses money in whatever restructuring will happen, they might just go to a system where schools pay a fee per sport that covers championships for that sport.  In that scenario, schools are going to be less likely to offer a sport they have no chance of making the tournament in - which means conference AQs become more important.

That's a wildly speculative idea, but just looking at the numbers - if D3 were forced to cover all their expenses on their own, the only play that revenue comes from is raising the current $2000 per school fee by 1000% or likely 2000% - member aren't going to be willing to do that en masse and there will need to be alternatives.  For poorer schools, those AQs are everything.  It's definitely in their interest to maximize them, even if its an overall competitive negative.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 20, 2021, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2021, 07:37:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2021, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

I would really hate to see this. I'd rather see the minimum upped to 8.

A higher number makes sense in basketball, but I know a lot of conferences are struggling to keep seven participants for lots of other sports.  With so many d3 schools being so small, they're all wanting to make different decisions, strategically, on which sports they offer and its definitely messing with conferences.

I suspect, if there's detrimental repercussions to a new NCAA constitution for d3, it'll likely end up with the division sponsoring fewer championships.

A higher number makes sense in football as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 20, 2021, 04:06:01 PM
Seems like it should be tied to the maximum bracket size. Like (number of teams)÷(maximum bracket size) rounded up to the nearest whole number.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 23, 2021, 10:21:30 PM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 25, 2021, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 23, 2021, 10:21:30 PM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC

It certainly looks like that USA South can add up to 3 more teams, although Asbury may find something closer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 25, 2021, 11:02:55 PM
Another change coming: https://twitter.com/d3hoopsville/status/1430680202921877506?s=20
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 23, 2021, 08:51:25 AM
Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the USAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 08, 2022, 01:49:13 PM
Well, it's been a while since we had something to put in here... a year after Louisiana College (now Louisiana Christian) left D3 to join the NAIA, Lyon (AR) is making the opposite move. No indication of what conference they'll end up in, but the ASC seems most likely since I don't think they meet the SAA or SCAC academic standards. On the other hand, if the USA South keeps moving westward...

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/lyon-college-applying-to-d3
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 08, 2022, 01:52:08 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 08, 2022, 01:49:13 PM
Well, it's been a while since we had something to put in here... a year after Louisiana College (now Louisiana Christian) left D3 to join the NAIA, Lyon (AR) is making the opposite move. No indication of what conference they'll end up in, but the ASC seems most likely since I don't think they meet the SAA or SCAC academic standards. On the other hand, if the USA South keeps moving westward...

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/lyon-college-applying-to-d3

"Lyon Applyin'" - that headline made me laugh, well done to the author and editor
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on February 08, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Please tell me they are the Lyon Lions.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 08, 2022, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 08, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Please tell me they are the Lyon Lions.

Lyon Scots, evidently.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: huskereddy on February 08, 2022, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 08, 2022, 01:49:13 PM
Well, it's been a while since we had something to put in here... a year after Louisiana College (now Louisiana Christian) left D3 to join the NAIA, Lyon (AR) is making the opposite move. No indication of what conference they'll end up in, but the ASC seems most likely since I don't think they meet the SAA or SCAC academic standards. On the other hand, if the USA South keeps moving westward...

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/lyon-college-applying-to-d3
ASC might be handy to give Ozarks a travel partner. Wouldn't count SLIAC out as they're currently in a St. Louis-centric NAIA conference and could pair with MUW for travel...trip to Spalding would be a bear, but who's to say that trip doesn't disappear altogether with the shifting landscape. Or - as Inkblot mentions - we could also see the USA South finally figure out an E/W split and the western schools pull in both Lyon and MUW...football could be an outlier/affiliate situation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2022, 04:14:10 PM
I had half a thought about the SLIAC as well. It's a long trip for Lyon to go up to the UMAC like the other SLIAC teams but yes, Lyon could affiliate elsewhere for football.

Even a USAC-West conference still doesn't really fit Lyon in its footprint. That would be something like:

Belhaven, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont. And yes, MUW could fit that as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 08, 2022, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2022, 04:14:10 PM
I had half a thought about the SLIAC as well. It's a long trip for Lyon to go up to the UMAC like the other SLIAC teams but yes, Lyon could affiliate elsewhere for football.

It is true that Lyon is used to playing in a Missouri-based conference in non-football sports and an Oklahoma/Texas/Arizona conference for football.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2022, 12:10:03 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 08, 2022, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 08, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Please tell me they are the Lyon Lions.

Lyon Scots, evidently.

That's not a college sports team, that's an ethnic slur. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2022, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2022, 12:10:03 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 08, 2022, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 08, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Please tell me they are the Lyon Lions.

Lyon Scots, evidently.

That's not a college sports team, that's an ethnic slur. ;)
ROTFL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 09, 2022, 01:01:53 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 08, 2022, 01:52:49 PM
Please tell me they are the Lyon Lions.

Lyon Township High School in the Chicago suburbs is the Lyon Lions.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2022, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 08, 2022, 01:49:13 PM
Well, it's been a while since we had something to put in here... a year after Louisiana College (now Louisiana Christian) left D3 to join the NAIA, Lyon (AR) is making the opposite move. No indication of what conference they'll end up in, but the ASC seems most likely since I don't think they meet the SAA or SCAC academic standards. On the other hand, if the USA South keeps moving westward...

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/lyon-college-applying-to-d3
Lyons, in Batesville AR, is 6+ hours away from Dallas but 4.5 hours from St Louis.
Univ of Ozarks, in Clarksville AR, is roughly equidistant to St Louis and Dallas, 5.5 hours.

UTD, LeTourneau and ETBU are all about 5.5 hours away from Clarksville.

In the ASC, beyond Dallas, it is another 2 hours to UMHB, 3 hours to Concordia TX, HPU, HSU, and McMurry and 7+ hours to Alpine.

Might Lyons pull Ozarks as a travel partner and both join the SLIAC?

IMHO, Ozarks would be more competitive in the SLIAC than in the ASC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 10, 2022, 04:28:29 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Lyon applying for exploratory membership and expedited provisional membership in 2022

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the USAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 03:04:17 PM


https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/usa-south-to-split-in-two
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2022, 03:35:09 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 03:04:17 PM


https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/usa-south-to-split-in-two

So, the members not moving to the CCS will still be in the USAS and still have the automatic bid, but the members moving to the CCS will not?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on February 16, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Correct, because new conferences have a two-year waiting period for AQs, even if all members come from a conference that has an AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 04:15:48 PM

Also important to remember, by the current access ratio, you need 10 eligible teams for Pool B to have a bid.  Unless the landscape changes, this new conference will only have Pool C access to the tournament - at least for the men.  The women have a better shot at it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on February 16, 2022, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 03:04:17 PM


https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/usa-south-to-split-in-two

So, if the split happens, Bob Jones and Asbury to the CCS? Warren Wilson and Johnson & Wales to the USA South?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2022, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on February 16, 2022, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 03:04:17 PM


https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/usa-south-to-split-in-two

So, if the split happens, Bob Jones and Asbury to the CCS? Warren Wilson and Johnson & Wales to the USA South?

No ... from what I'm told, first there will be at least a year before the CCS welcomes in anyone new ... and I don't think these schools are slam dunks to those conferences. First off, Bob Jones I think is rubbing some schools the wrong way with their religious restrictions and such. They should have already found a home by now ... and haven't. I think that is telling. Also, Asbury isn't going to the CCS from everything I've been told. Maybe the HCAC? But even that might be a stretch. J&W to the USA South... possibly. And I think Warren Wilson maybe ends up actually in the CCS.

There are others like MUW, Lynn that will find their way into homes ... ASC maybe for Lynn; CCS for MUW (after a brief stint in the SLIAC).

The only other thing is maybe the USA South is waiting for this split to announce new members. That is the only part of this I haven't been able to nail down.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 21, 2022, 03:03:04 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Lyon applying for exploratory membership and expedited provisional membership in 2022

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 23, 2022, 11:11:40 PM
Occurs to me that the NECC is likely to lose Pool A status in 2023–24, which would probably guarantee a Pool B for that season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2022, 11:30:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 23, 2022, 11:11:40 PM
Occurs to me that the NECC is likely to lose Pool A status in 2023–24, which would probably guarantee a Pool B for that season.

I believe they lose it this summer, although I suspect those teams will either find new homes or enough new members.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 24, 2022, 12:44:32 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2022, 11:30:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 23, 2022, 11:11:40 PM
Occurs to me that the NECC is likely to lose Pool A status in 2023–24, which would probably guarantee a Pool B for that season.

I believe they lose it this summer, although I suspect those teams will either find new homes or enough new members.

Ah yes, that's right. They were at 6 men's basketball members in the 2021 (non-)season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2022, 05:37:01 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2022, 11:30:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 23, 2022, 11:11:40 PM
Occurs to me that the NECC is likely to lose Pool A status in 2023–24, which would probably guarantee a Pool B for that season.

I believe they lose it this summer, although I suspect those teams will either find new homes or enough new members.

They don't get a "credit" for the lost season?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2022, 07:19:28 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2022, 05:37:01 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2022, 11:30:34 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 23, 2022, 11:11:40 PM
Occurs to me that the NECC is likely to lose Pool A status in 2023–24, which would probably guarantee a Pool B for that season.

I believe they lose it this summer, although I suspect those teams will either find new homes or enough new members.

They don't get a "credit" for the lost season?

I'm honestly not sure how that works with covid.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2022, 05:21:10 PM
From what I've been told ... no, the lost season is not "credited" as the behind-the-scenes stuff of trying to keep numbers of a conference up or make other moves didn't necessarily stop because of COVID.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2022, 01:24:36 PM
Morrisville (United East) and Lesley (NECC) to NAC in 2023-24. Heck of a rebuilding job by the NAC getting up to 14 members.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2022, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2022, 01:24:36 PM
Morrisville (United East) and Lesley (NECC) to NAC in 2023-24. Heck of a rebuilding job by the NAC getting up to 14 members.

Morrisville was part of the discussions last increase by the NAC when hey brought in members form the NEAC/UEC. It is a bit complicated, but it sounds like opinions have shifted and Morrisville is now entering.

This has been part of the larger NAC plan for a few years now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2022, 03:32:40 PM
Dave McHugh,

Where do Eastern Nazarene, Mitchell and New England College land now?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2022, 03:54:51 PM
The NAC went from a Massachusetts private schools conference (plus Maine Maritime) to a ME-NH-VT conference to a half Maine, half New York conference with the NVUs bridging the gap. And now we have founding member Lesley rejoining.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2022, 03:56:44 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Lyon applying for exploratory membership and expedited provisional membership in 2022

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2022, 08:15:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2022, 03:32:40 PM
Dave McHugh,

Where do Eastern Nazarene, Mitchell and New England College land now?

Thanks.

From what I understand, the NECC believes their AQs are intact one more year, until Lesley actually leaves. I've not heard concrete plans from any school, but I don't think any of them are going to try and attract new members to keep it together.

I've wondered why a few renegade GNAC members don't join to get a better AQ chance. Maybe Hartford can take it over and build their own d3 conference? It seems a waste to let an established AQ just disappear.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2022, 12:09:13 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2022, 08:15:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2022, 03:32:40 PM
Dave McHugh,

Where do Eastern Nazarene, Mitchell and New England College land now?

Thanks.

From what I understand, the NECC believes their AQs are intact one more year, until Lesley actually leaves. I've not heard concrete plans from any school, but I don't think any of them are going to try and attract new members to keep it together.

I've wondered why a few renegade GNAC members don't join to get a better AQ chance. Maybe Hartford can take it over and build their own d3 conference? It seems a waste to let an established AQ just disappear.
+1!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2022, 09:13:09 AM
the plan for the NECC is to transition to a single sport conference for men's volleyball. Membership in NECC men's volleyball is currently Eastern Nazarene and Lesley plus affiliate members Endicott (CCC), Nichols (CCC), NVU-Johnson (NAC), Russell Sage (E8), SUNY Poly (NAC) and SUNY Potsdam (SUNYAC), so it has a healthy stable of members.

Additionally, I have recently heard Bard (LL) plans to withdraw from the superpower United Volleyball Conference to become the 9th member of this league for MVB.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2022, 09:21:08 AM
Aren't they also a big esports conference?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2022, 09:21:08 AM
Aren't they also a big esports conference?

according to their website they have what looks like a hundred or more members. Unless and until esports comes under the auspices of the NCAA, however, the question is moot.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2022, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2022, 09:21:08 AM
Aren't they also a big esports conference?

according to their website they have what looks like a hundred or more members. Unless and until esports comes under the auspices of the NCAA, however, the question is moot.

I just mean, if they're going to exist for that purpose and they have AQs in other sports, there's not a ton of reason to dissolve altogether.  They can remain a multi-sport conference by adding one field hockey team or two women's lacrosse programs.  If that status remains, you can always get the AQ back instantly in any other sport by getting back up to the required minimum.  No waiting period for existing conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 22, 2022, 11:01:25 PM
Hartford has been approved for reclassification. https://www.hartford.edu/news/press-releases/2022/03/ns-athletics-division3.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Where do they land?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Where do they land?

Great question, and one we have debated on Hoopsville and such as well. Thumbnail sketch from my perspective:

I feel like the size of the school and such puts them in the Little East, but they are not a state school.
The GNAC is also a possibility -- I think this because there are some larger schools in the GNAC, such as Suffolk.
They are not a member of the AAU, so UAA membership would be out.
I do not know anything about Hartford's academic profile so as to know whether the NEWMAC might be an option. They don't look like a NESCAC school to me (but then of course, neither does Tufts).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Baldini on March 24, 2022, 02:23:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Where do they land?

Great question, and one we have debated on Hoopsville and such as well. Thumbnail sketch from my perspective:

I feel like the size of the school and such puts them in the Little East, but they are not a state school.
The GNAC is also a possibility -- I think this because there are some larger schools in the GNAC, such as Suffolk.
They are not a member of the AAU, so UAA membership would be out.
I do not know anything about Hartford's academic profile so as to know whether the NEWMAC might be an option. They don't look like a NESCAC school to me (but then of course, neither does Tufts).

I'll throw my two cents in here and say the Little East should be a easy choice. I get the state school thing, but the conference they are coming from is all state schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2022, 02:25:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Where do they land?

Great question, and one we have debated on Hoopsville and such as well. Thumbnail sketch from my perspective:

I feel like the size of the school and such puts them in the Little East, but they are not a state school.
The GNAC is also a possibility -- I think this because there are some larger schools in the GNAC, such as Suffolk.
They are not a member of the AAU, so UAA membership would be out.
I do not know anything about Hartford's academic profile so as to know whether the NEWMAC might be an option. They don't look like a NESCAC school to me (but then of course, neither does Tufts).

How about the Skyline Conference?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2022, 02:25:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Where do they land?

Great question, and one we have debated on Hoopsville and such as well. Thumbnail sketch from my perspective:

I feel like the size of the school and such puts them in the Little East, but they are not a state school.
The GNAC is also a possibility -- I think this because there are some larger schools in the GNAC, such as Suffolk.
They are not a member of the AAU, so UAA membership would be out.
I do not know anything about Hartford's academic profile so as to know whether the NEWMAC might be an option. They don't look like a NESCAC school to me (but then of course, neither does Tufts).

How about the Skyline Conference?

Not impossible either. They're currently all in the NYC area but West Hartford isn't super far.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 24, 2022, 04:41:44 PM
I would have thought the CCC to be the best fit for Hartford. I don't see the Skyline or UHart having any mutual interest.

On another note, I just learned today that Utica is probably going Division II with men's and women's hockey headed to D1. Whoa.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 06:09:44 PM
Glad to see that the Utica news is getting some run. Dave and I talked about it on the same Hoopsville conversation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 24, 2022, 08:08:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 06:09:44 PM
Glad to see that the Utica news is getting some run. Dave and I talked about it on the same Hoopsville conversation.

Not the first time UC has done this.  Back in the '80's they hired NBA Hall of Famer Larry Costello as a coach and moved to D-I for about 8 years, during the time that Potsdam was one of the better programs in D-III.  That experiment ended in 87-88.  D-II will allow them to offer scholarships and there are a couple of D-II conferences NE10 and ECC that are a good fit.  They have been one of the better teams in D-III hockey, and hockey only has D-I and D-III championships, so that warrants the move to D-I for that sport.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: kiko on March 25, 2022, 09:10:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
They don't look like a NESCAC school to me (but then of course, neither does Tufts).

Can you elaborate on this?  As an unwashed Midwestern rube, it can be challenging to parse apart the nuances between some of the leafy small schools in the Northeast and I'm curious as to what might distinguish them from their conference mates.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 25, 2022, 10:27:39 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 25, 2022, 09:10:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
They don't look like a NESCAC school to me (but then of course, neither does Tufts).

Can you elaborate on this?  As an unwashed Midwestern rube, it can be challenging to parse apart the nuances between some of the leafy small schools in the Northeast and I'm curious as to what might distinguish them from their conference mates.

Tufts is a large, research university akin to the UAA schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 30, 2022, 03:37:44 PM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Lyon applying for exploratory membership and expedited provisional membership in 2022

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 19, 2022, 03:55:43 PM

Carlow and Lyon approved for exploratory year. Hartford approved to begin reclassification, not to be completed before 2025.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 19, 2022, 04:48:22 PM
Carlow would make a fine addition to the PAC or the AMCC.

Pittsburgh is becoming quite a hub for D3. With Carlow joining, there's gonna be more Yinzers in the middle section of D3's Maine-to-Iowa geographic base than you can shake a Primanti Btothers sandwich at.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on May 19, 2022, 11:16:32 PM
It was stated previously that Lyon would apply to skip the exploratory year like Asbury did last year. We won't know the decision on that until July.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2022, 06:35:55 PM
Mills (C2C) is discontinuing D-III athletics.  From the FAQ

https://www.millscyclones.com/general/Northeastern_Merger_FAQs

"Q: What options will there be if I decide to stay at Mills College at Northeastern?

A: Although we will not have Division III NCAA teams after 2021-2022, we will make every effort to provide meaningful physical activity opportunities to all students. We will be engaging current Mills students in discussion about what this might look like through the spring semester."

Well now the C2C extends to just the east side of the Mississippi River.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 30, 2022, 10:57:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2022, 06:35:55 PM
Mills (C2C) is discontinuing D-III athletics.  From the FAQ

https://www.millscyclones.com/general/Northeastern_Merger_FAQs

"Q: What options will there be if I decide to stay at Mills College at Northeastern?

A: Although we will not have Division III NCAA teams after 2021-2022, we will make every effort to provide meaningful physical activity opportunities to all students. We will be engaging current Mills students in discussion about what this might look like through the spring semester."

Well now the C2C extends to just the east side of the Mississippi River.

I think Santa Cruz is still in California, unless they moved in the night,  Baltimore Colts style.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 30, 2022, 01:00:57 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 30, 2022, 10:57:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2022, 06:35:55 PM
Mills (C2C) is discontinuing D-III athletics.  From the FAQ

https://www.millscyclones.com/general/Northeastern_Merger_FAQs

"Q: What options will there be if I decide to stay at Mills College at Northeastern?

A: Although we will not have Division III NCAA teams after 2021-2022, we will make every effort to provide meaningful physical activity opportunities to all students. We will be engaging current Mills students in discussion about what this might look like through the spring semester."

Well now the C2C extends to just the east side of the Mississippi River.

I think Santa Cruz is still in California, unless they moved in the night,  Baltimore Colts style.
My bad!  I stepped in that one, Big Time.   :D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 30, 2022, 06:40:02 PM
Mills and Sweet Briar -- the two D-III schools who have no sports we cover.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 09, 2022, 03:28:15 PM
Bump (and rolled over to 2022-23)

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Asbury
1st year provisional members: Hartford
Exploratory: Lyon, Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 21, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
Hartford to the CCC

https://twitter.com/HartfordHawks/status/1539262931556237316

the fans are absolutely thrilled LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 21, 2022, 02:18:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 21, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
Hartford to the CCC

https://twitter.com/HartfordHawks/status/1539262931556237316

the fans are absolutely thrilled LOL

Hartford will have to write off the haters. They consider the school's move to D3 to be a betrayal (either of the school's best interests or of their own emotional investment as Hawks fans, take your pick), and in all likelihood they're never coming back. The challenge will be to accumulate enough success in the CCC and in D3 in general so that in ten years there will be a thriving fan base that either doesn't know or doesn't care that the University of Hartford used to be a D1 school.

Along those lines, I'd love to get an insider's perspective from Centenary on how the fan base has adapted there in the ten years since the Gents and Ladies left D1 for D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 21, 2022, 04:03:55 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 21, 2022, 02:18:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 21, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
Hartford to the CCC

https://twitter.com/HartfordHawks/status/1539262931556237316

the fans are absolutely thrilled LOL

Hartford will have to write off the haters. They consider the school's move to D3 to be a betrayal (either of the school's best interests or of their own emotional investment as Hawks fans, take your pick), and in all likelihood they're never coming back. The challenge will be to accumulate enough success in the CCC and in D3 in general so that in ten years there will be a thriving fan base that either doesn't know or doesn't care that the University of Hartford used to be a D1 school.

Along those lines, I'd love to get an insider's perspective from Centenary on how the fan base has adapted there in the ten years since the Gents and Ladies left D1 for D3.
... and Birmingham Southern, too
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 21, 2022, 04:35:09 PM
Ryan and I recorded a Podcast on Sunday night where I asked him to guess where UHart would land.

He guessed right. :)

I'll get it posted at some point this week.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 22, 2022, 12:14:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 21, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
Hartford to the CCC

https://twitter.com/HartfordHawks/status/1539262931556237316

the fans are absolutely thrilled LOL

Geez. It's not like they're going to the NAIA or something. LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 22, 2022, 01:37:17 PM
I looked up attendance from 2019-2020 as they had a good, winning season and should have seen an increase from casual fans and they mostly hovered around 600-800.  They had 1,700 once.

This season was way down, but between Covid and the announcement, that was to be expected.

So yeah, this is probably a good move, despite the concern from alumni and fans.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 22, 2022, 04:35:40 PM
I have no doubt the majority of those fans think going to D3 is a step down. Obviously we know that's not necessarily true.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 22, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 22, 2022, 12:14:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 21, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
Hartford to the CCC

https://twitter.com/HartfordHawks/status/1539262931556237316

the fans are absolutely thrilled LOL

Geez. It's not like they're going to the NAIA or something. LOL

One of my nephews recently accepted a scholarship to play hoops at an NAIA school. I'm so bummed that I have to dial back on the NAIA jokes for the next four years. :(

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 22, 2022, 04:35:40 PM
I have no doubt the majority of those fans think going to D3 is a step down. Obviously we know that's not necessarily true.

Unfortunately, you and I and WUPHF and Gordon and all of the rest of us regular posters here are swimming against the cultural tide in terms of thinking that way about D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 22, 2022, 09:46:42 PM
I have followed my share of mediocre Division I and Division II teams, including my alma mater, not to mention a high-level NAIA team, and I'll watch any of them, but Division III is special. 

The Hartford fans may find that out soon enough.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Next Man Up on June 23, 2022, 01:26:34 AM
From talking to scores of recruits over the years, the number that view an athletic scholarship as a signal that they have achieved success in their basketball lives is rather mind boggling. While some who "need" a scholarship truly do so due to their family economic situation, most "need" it to show their peers that they have attained the upper echelon in the basketball hierarchy. The weight an athletic scholarship carries is often enough to cause a recruit to overlook the fact that the NAIA or D2 offering the free ride rates a mile or two academically below the D3 they might otherwise consider. Also, many would take the scholarship even if it means they'll be occupying the last seat on the end of the bench as opposed to having a real chance to be a meaningful contributor at a D3 school. 

I've also observed that often times a major reason why not only the kids, but their parents as well, look at things this way is the fault of AAU coaches. With the proliferation of AAU teams, the competition for players has reached epic proportions. Accordingly, not all, but many AAU coaches will dangle the scholarship carrot, virtually guaranteeing that signing with his team will result in an athletic scholarship offer/offers. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 23, 2022, 09:46:00 AM
Quote from: Next Man Up on June 23, 2022, 01:26:34 AM
From talking to scores of recruits over the years, the number that view an athletic scholarship as a signal that they have achieved success in their basketball lives is rather mind boggling.

Truth be told, this is nearly universal among college-aged kids.

There is a reason why many private liberal arts colleges give scholarships to nearly all incoming students.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 23, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: Next Man Up on June 23, 2022, 01:26:34 AM
From talking to scores of recruits over the years, the number that view an athletic scholarship as a signal that they have achieved success in their basketball lives is rather mind boggling. While some who "need" a scholarship truly do so due to their family economic situation, most "need" it to show their peers that they have attained the upper echelon in the basketball hierarchy. The weight an athletic scholarship carries is often enough to cause a recruit to overlook the fact that the NAIA or D2 offering the free ride rates a mile or two academically below the D3 they might otherwise consider. Also, many would take the scholarship even if it means they'll be occupying the last seat on the end of the bench as opposed to having a real chance to be a meaningful contributor at a D3 school. 

I've also observed that often times a major reason why not only the kids, but their parents as well, look at things this way is the fault of AAU coaches. With the proliferation of AAU teams, the competition for players has reached epic proportions. Accordingly, not all, but many AAU coaches will dangle the scholarship carrot, virtually guaranteeing that signing with his team will result in an athletic scholarship offer/offers.

This is true to a degree, but it needs a bunch of qualifiers. Two of those qualifiers are familiarity and location. Any long-time observer of small-college sports is aware that each of those two levels of intercollegiate sports consists of a group of schools that are very disproportionate with regard to American geography. While D3 does conform better to U.S. population demographics than does NAIA, it's nevertheless underrepresented in places such as Florida, Louisiana, California, Texas, and the Mountain Time Zone, and overrepresented in places such as Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Minnesota. NAIA? It's a veritable patchwork, with total small-college dominance here or there and complete nonexistence elsewhere. Thus, what a high-school kid who wants to play sports at the next level thinks of D3 versus NAIA in terms of school choice is also shaped to a large degree upon where he or she calls home.

To use the best example of a high-school athlete who chose NAIA that I know -- my nephew -- geography and familiarity played a huge role in his decision. He's from northern Indiana, and northern Indiana is an NAIA hotbed. One of the best leagues in NAIA men's basketball, the Crossroads League, is heavily represented in his part of the state, and two other NAIA leagues, the WHAC and CCAC, also have member schools that are within an hour's drive of my sister's and brother-in-law's house. D3 isn't unknown in northern Indiana, but member schools are thin on the ground, with only two D3 campuses located there. My nephew isn't D1 or high D2 material, but he was one of the top point guards in the entire Michiana region and was named IBCA All-State honorable mention, and he thus drew a lot of attention from small schools. And almost all of them were NAIA schools from those three leagues, especially the Crossroads, a league with which most ballplayers in his county are very familiar. And so he ended up choosing a Crossroads school that offered him a scholie that, I'm sure, probably amounts to a pittance, the way that most NAIA partial scholies do.

He didn't choose his school because of the scholie. He chose it because of the coach who recruited him, the school's proximity to his home, the fact that the school has the major he wants, and because he knows and respects the Crossroads League. But he was recruited by a couple of D3 schools as well, neither of which has a very good men's basketball program and neither of which is a school that in general appealed to him. Had Trine, Hope, or Calvin recruited him, I'm certain that he would've strongly considered either or all of them, NAIA offers or not. But they didn't, for whatever reason. (It isn't ability, because he's good enough to play for any of those three MIAA programs, although possibly not right away.)

Yeah, the social cred of a basketball scholarship -- even if it's a mere $500 per semester -- is a powerful lure to the self-esteem of a high-school senior, and a lot of kids are motivated by it to choose an NAIA school over a D3 school. But adolescent ego and pushy AAU coaches do not provide a comprehensive summary as to why high-school seniors make that particular choice. There are other reasons as well, and the two related reasons of geography and familiarity are among them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 23, 2022, 12:27:45 PM
since Hartford brings the CCC to 11 members, anyone else think that as the NECC winds down its existence as a multi-sport conference (transitioning into a single sport men's volleyball circuit) that Eastern Nazarene, Mitchell and New England College will land here to make it an even 14 schools?

Possibly with two 7-team divisions in certain sports, or single round robin 13-game schedule in basketball for example.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 23, 2022, 12:54:31 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 23, 2022, 11:28:33 AM
To use the best example of a high-school athlete who chose NAIA that I know -- my nephew -- geography and familiarity played a huge role in his decision. He's from northern Indiana, and northern Indiana is an NAIA hotbed. One of the best leagues in NAIA men's basketball, the Crossroads League, is heavily represented in his part of the state, and two other NAIA leagues, the WHAC and CCAC, also have member schools that are within an hour's drive of my sister's and brother-in-law's house. D3 isn't unknown in northern Indiana, but member schools are thin on the ground, with only two D3 campuses located there. My nephew isn't D1 or high D2 material, but he was one of the top point guards in the entire Michiana region and was named IBCA All-State honorable mention, and he thus drew a lot of attention from small schools. And almost all of them were NAIA schools from those three leagues, especially the Crossroads, a league with which most ballplayers in his county are very familiar. And so he ended up choosing a Crossroads school that offered him a scholie that, I'm sure, probably amounts to a pittance, the way that most NAIA partial scholies do.

This is awesome, Greg!

Maybe you can nudge North Park to schedule that school instead of East-West or Cardinal Stritch next season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 23, 2022, 01:51:26 PM
Hartford is adding field hockey, ice hockey and tennis. (The article does not mention male or female to those sports, field hockey female of course.)

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-sp-university-of-hartford-annouce-conference-20220621-20220621-yva7ijnkarb45pvyxhbv2f4nv4-story.html

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 23, 2022, 01:57:10 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 23, 2022, 12:27:45 PM
since Hartford brings the CCC to 11 members, anyone else think that as the NECC winds down its existence as a multi-sport conference (transitioning into a single sport men's volleyball circuit) that Eastern Nazarene, Mitchell and New England College will land here to make it an even 14 schools?

Possibly with two 7-team divisions in certain sports, or single round robin 13-game schedule in basketball for example.

I'd be interested to read Ryan's thoughts on this matter, since he's an Eastern Nazarene alumnus.

Quote from: WUPHF on June 23, 2022, 12:54:31 PM
Maybe you can nudge North Park to schedule that school instead of East-West or Cardinal Stritch next season.

My hope is that there won't be any late cancellations in North Park's schedule in the foreseeable future that would require Sean Smith to schedule any NAIA opponents.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 23, 2022, 01:51:26 PM
Hartford is adding field hockey, ice hockey and tennis. (The article does not mention male or female to those sports.)

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-sp-university-of-hartford-annouce-conference-20220621-20220621-yva7ijnkarb45pvyxhbv2f4nv4-story.html

Field hockey is women only, isn't it? Or am I hopelessly behind the times on that matter? It's been so long since I lived in the northeast that I can't remember the last time I gave field hockey a second thought. Unlike lacrosse, the allure of field hockey has not spread westward.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 23, 2022, 03:03:04 PM
ENC and NEC were essentially kicked out of the CCC. They're both much smaller in terms of endowment and can't really compete with those schools. I know ENC has really enjoyed the chance to actually win conference tournaments, something they only did once in 30 years of CCC play.

I suspect the CCC might poach a couple of the GNAC's larger spenders (or football programs) and let the NECC teams fill in there.

The NAC is the better fit for ENC, but I don't think they want that kind of travel commitment.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 24, 2022, 12:14:53 PM
Louisiana College changed its name to Louisiana Christian University.
In joining the NAIA, they dropped down to 5 men's and 4 women's sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 24, 2022, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 23, 2022, 03:03:04 PM
ENC and NEC were essentially kicked out of the CCC. They're both much smaller in terms of endowment and can't really compete with those schools. I know ENC has really enjoyed the chance to actually win conference tournaments, something they only did once in 30 years of CCC play.

I suspect the CCC might poach a couple of the GNAC's larger spenders (or football programs) and let the NECC teams fill in there.

The NAC is the better fit for ENC, but I don't think they want that kind of travel commitment.

What other realistic option or options does ENC have?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 24, 2022, 02:50:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 24, 2022, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 23, 2022, 03:03:04 PM
ENC and NEC were essentially kicked out of the CCC. They're both much smaller in terms of endowment and can't really compete with those schools. I know ENC has really enjoyed the chance to actually win conference tournaments, something they only did once in 30 years of CCC play.

I suspect the CCC might poach a couple of the GNAC's larger spenders (or football programs) and let the NECC teams fill in there.

The NAC is the better fit for ENC, but I don't think they want that kind of travel commitment.

What other realistic option or options does ENC have?

I'm pretty sure the NAC would take them in a heartbeat.  I'm less sure the GNAC is looking to add just anyone.  I really do think there's something afoot, in terms of organizing another new conference.  The eSports mess makes reforming the NECC to keep the AQ, a bit of a headache.  ENC's already in three different conferences for different sports.

The coaches I've spoken to genuinely seem like they're unaware of the plans following this year.  I'd assume they need to announce something soon, but stranger things have happened than a couple schools falling into Pool B unexpectedly.  Maybe after the fiscal year turns over next week?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on June 24, 2022, 04:30:40 PM
It looks like there is something brewing (after a few false starts) with Lancaster Bible switching conferences. Also a couple of the United East schools are looking around and if they find a home, that might just doom the United East. I wonder what would happen to St. Mary's and Gallaudet down south........and the three Penn State schools (Abington, Berks, Harrisburg) as well.

The Conference roulette wheel just keeps on a spinning.........and MAC rumors are getting stronger AFTER the Wilkes and Lycoming departures (and the Leb Val switch). There are a few schools approaching the MAC regarding joining the conference. I'm at a loss as to who though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 24, 2022, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 24, 2022, 04:30:40 PM
It looks like there is something brewing (after a few false starts) with Lancaster Bible switching conferences. Also a couple of the United East schools are looking around and if they find a home, that might just doom the United East. I wonder what would happen to St. Mary's and Gallaudet down south........and the three Penn State schools (Abington, Berks, Harrisburg) as well.

The Conference roulette wheel just keeps on a spinning.........and MAC rumors are getting stronger AFTER the Wilkes and Lycoming departures (and the Leb Val switch). There are a few schools approaching the MAC regarding joining the conference. I'm at a loss as to who though.

Lancaster Bible has been looking at the CSAC, right? But I wonder if the MAC is a better spot for them.

St. Mary's and Gallaudet could go back to the CAC. I know they left and that Gallaudet was not in good shape when it left the league, but the league is not in good shape right now.

If I had to guess as to who would be approaching the MAC, I'd start with the same pipeline as always: CSAC to MAC. Keystone would be the one that I would guess to be the most interested.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: warriorcat on June 26, 2022, 10:26:47 AM
Any rumblings about  possible move by Nichols to Div 2 NE 10?  I heard this rumor over the weekend and wonder if there might be anything to it. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 26, 2022, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: warriorcat on June 26, 2022, 10:26:47 AM
Any rumblings about  possible move by Nichols to Div 2 NE 10?  I heard this rumor over the weekend and wonder if there might be anything to it.

I'm sure they're a target for the NE D2 conferences, but Nichols has always been on a knife's edge financially.  They've only even had full time head coaches for the last five or six years and they all still have split duties. The whole athletic budget, including salaries is just over $2m and the institutional endowment is $22m.  I think it would be tough to fund a solid d2 program.

You'd have to combine that move with either a large enrollment increase or a major fundraising campaign.

Now, schools have done crazier things, but they're in a pretty good spot where they are.

(Just for comparison, Bentley, a top tier NE D2 school, spends $13m annually on their athletic programs.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on June 27, 2022, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 26, 2022, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: warriorcat on June 26, 2022, 10:26:47 AM
Any rumblings about  possible move by Nichols to Div 2 NE 10?  I heard this rumor over the weekend and wonder if there might be anything to it.

I'm sure they're a target for the NE D2 conferences, but Nichols has always been on a knife's edge financially.  They've only even had full time head coaches for the last five or six years and they all still have split duties. The whole athletic budget, including salaries is just over $2m and the institutional endowment is $22m.  I think it would be tough to fund a solid d2 program.

You'd have to combine that move with either a large enrollment increase or a major fundraising campaign.

Now, schools have done crazier things, but they're in a pretty good spot where they are.

(Just for comparison, Bentley, a top tier NE D2 school, spends $13m annually on their athletic programs.)

Good points. Crazier things have indeed happened. The world of college athletics is fascinating and, at times, nonsensical.

Just for fun I did some research. Frostburg State who recently went D2. As of the last year they were DIII (2020) - endowment was $28.4 Million and total expenses for the athletic dept per Equity in Athletics was $5.9 million.

Not sure what all this means...but to me it seems like FSU found a way to make it happen with not so impressive figures.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2022, 10:25:18 AM

State schools typically have more and more flexible funding streams. Enrollment helps, too. Frostburg is pushing 6,000. Nichols is usually high triple digits.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 27, 2022, 10:42:15 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2022, 10:25:18 AM
State schools typically have more and more flexible funding streams.

This varies from state to state, but in general, I would disagree.

Here is how Frostburg pays for athletics:

Athletic Fee: An athletic fee of $552 per semester for full-time students and a $62 per credit hour fee for part-time students is used to support the University's program in intercollegiate and intramural athletics.

$1,104 per year to subsidize athletics is crazy, but such is life as a college student in 2022-2023.

I do agree that enrollment help.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on June 27, 2022, 11:31:31 AM

CNU has an "Intercollegiate Athletics and Intramurals Fee" of $94.74 per credit hour. Assume 15 hrs per semester......$2,842 per year. Yikes!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 27, 2022, 12:33:03 PM
In Missouri, the public schools are required to disclose fees in a way that the privates are not.  I assume that Frostburg had to be very clear that the fees was connected to athletics.

My alma mater currently has a few of $1,154 that covers all fees, but may be largely athletics.

I think $1,154 was may a 25-30% of what I paid in tuition and fees overall, but I am old, obviously.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 27, 2022, 01:55:38 PM
Size usually helps and state schools, however big they are individually, can leverage the assets of other schools in ways private schools cannot.

For example, one state university can leverage the credit worthiness of the entire system when it borrows money to improve its facilities, including athletic facilities. John Doe State benefits from being the SUNY or Wisconsin or New Jersey State system. Meanwhile, Elmira College can't ask for a lower interest rate to renovate the field house because the other members of the Empire 8 pay their bills on time.

There's also less scrutiny for individual capital projects if it's part of a massive statewide or system wide budget. A $500,000 building project attracts more attention in a $10 million budget than it does in a $100 million budget.

I realize this is a little different from student fees, but it's all part of the picture for how athletic systems are funded.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 27, 2022, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 27, 2022, 01:55:38 PM
There's also less scrutiny for individual capital projects if it's part of a massive statewide or system wide budget. A $500,000 building project attracts more attention in a $10 million budget than it does in a $100 million budget.

In terms of scrutiny, this goes both ways.

As far as I can tell, the biggest and best gyms are at privates.  Drury, Nova Southeastern and so on.  It seems that there are more Bellarmines than UIndys or Southern Indianas, but maybe I am wrong.

I have not paid close attention, but it seems as though most institutions that are moving to Division I or II are private.

I do think we would find that the private liberal arts colleges have more success in terms of fundraising as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2022, 04:40:32 PM

In terms of flexibility, I was thinking about moving from d3 to d2.  The state schools likely have more options and fewer restrictions than private schools to transfer significant aid money to athletics.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on June 28, 2022, 08:45:23 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 27, 2022, 01:55:38 PM
Size usually helps and state schools, however big they are individually, can leverage the assets of other schools in ways private schools cannot.

For example, one state university can leverage the credit worthiness of the entire system when it borrows money to improve its facilities, including athletic facilities. John Doe State benefits from being the SUNY or Wisconsin or New Jersey State system. Meanwhile, Elmira College can't ask for a lower interest rate to renovate the field house because the other members of the Empire 8 pay their bills on time.

There's also less scrutiny for individual capital projects if it's part of a massive statewide or system wide budget. A $500,000 building project attracts more attention in a $10 million budget than it does in a $100 million budget.

I realize this is a little different from student fees, but it's all part of the picture for how athletic systems are funded.

Before i retired I did athletic budgets and the NCAA reporting for a state operated campus.  Their funding streams are complex.  The facilities are largely funded by the state including buildings, utilities, janitorial staff etc.  Team travel expenses, payments to officials, recruiting, equipment and uniforms are usually paid for through a student fee. Coaches & administrator salaries are usually funded by the state, but asst salaries etc may not be.  Student workers may be paid through the athletic fee or college work study if eligible.  There is some fund-raising and that is used to supplement what cannot be paid for through the state or fee-based funding streams.  With the pandemic, enrollment has dropped and that will put pressure on the fee-based and campus budgets, College athletics is headed into uncharted territory over the next few years at the D-III level. The enrollment drop is present among many D-III schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 28, 2022, 09:01:48 AM
Quote from: thebear on June 28, 2022, 08:45:23 AM
Before i retired I did athletic budgets and the NCAA reporting for a state operated campus.  Their funding streams are complex.  The facilities are largely funded by the state including buildings, utilities, janitorial staff etc. 

Do you mind providing an example of a state school that is largely funded by the state, given the continuous decline in state funding over the last few decades?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 28, 2022, 10:48:08 AM
Thanks, Bear.

That validates and expounds on my thinking.

Some of this is hard to quantify because institutions budget things differently, which makes it hard to track spending the same way across all institutions. The person in charge of facility maintenance might be budgeted in the Athletic department, a facilities department that covers all buildings or somewhere else. The costs aren't different depending on how where you record the expense but that impacts the comparison.

Years ago, when I compared Division III football program budgets, UW-whitewater football was on a run of national titles and it also had one of the lowest total spending tallies. The budget was lower or comparable to private school programs whose facilities were a far cry from Perkins Stadium.

My conclusion was that UW-Whitewater, as a state school, had the same or even higher expenses -- they certainly had higher facility costs -- but they budgeted them elsewhere. And the larger your system, the more places you have to potentially budget them.

If you're part of a state system, you have access to more ability to "buy in bulk," use system assets, access debt with a different credt rating, etc. That doesn't mean a SUNY or WIAC school has more financial capacity than Harvard or a liberal arts school with a big endowment. And certainly there are some private schools that are investing in athletics. Look at the facilities at Hope and Calvin.

But my theory (and it's only that) is that SUNY schools have more financial capacity than, say, Elmira, Well or Houghton.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 28, 2022, 11:43:43 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 28, 2022, 10:48:08 AM
But my theory (and it's only that) is that SUNY schools have more financial capacity than, say, Elmira, Well or Houghton.

Houghton might not be a good example. The college got a $12 million donation for a new athletic facility that gave it the capability to add sports and thus transition from NAIA to D3 a decade ago, and that money came entirely from Terry and Kim Pegula, the billionaire couple that owns the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres. Kim is a Houghton alumna. Given that, plus the sports aspect of the Pegula family holdings (they also own a couple of professional lacrosse franchises in Rochester and Buffalo), it's reasonable to speculate that if Houghton's leadership sees the need for athletics upgrades in facilities and/or budget they have a benefactor that can make it happen for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 28, 2022, 12:28:23 PM
How about that! Thanks for the knowledge.

When I lived in Upstate New York, it was the Golisano family that everyone pointed toward as the potential financial deliverer, including as a potential buyer for the Buffalo Sabres. I just looked and Tom Golisano went to Alfred State.

The Pegulas and Golisanos should both finance massive facilities and turn Houghton/Alfred State into the next Hope/Calvin rivalry!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 28, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
Houghton also dropped men's and women's lacrosse last summer because it wasn't enrolling enough kids to sustain itself, plus most Houghton teams are awful. Nothing in common with Hope besides the first 2 letters of their names and being church colleges.

As for the other schools Gordon referenced, agreed. Elmira is broke and I have no idea how Wells is still open.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 28, 2022, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 28, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
Houghton also dropped men's and women's lacrosse last summer because it wasn't enrolling enough kids to sustain itself, plus most Houghton teams are awful. Nothing in common with Hope besides the first 2 letters of their names and being church colleges.

I have the impression that athletics has never really been any kind of a priority whatsoever at Houghton. The Highlanders have a tradition of having some good runners in their running sports, and that's about it.

I'm shocked that Houghton dropped men's and women's lacrosse, though. I mean, if you're a college in upstate New York and yet you can't find enough lacrosse players to fill out your teams, then that's just plain sad. That's a "file under F for lack of effort" outcome. Lacrosse was king when I was growing up in central New York, and, granted that that was a long time ago, I nevertheless can't imagine that the sport's popularity has waned on the prep level there.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 28, 2022, 08:17:38 PM

I wonder how much of Houghton's recruiting is local, though. If they're relying heavily on denominational connections, lacrosse might not be as popular where the students are actually coming from.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 29, 2022, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 28, 2022, 10:48:08 AM
If you're part of a state system, you have access to more ability to "buy in bulk," use system assets, access debt with a different credit rating, etc. That doesn't mean a SUNY or WIAC school has more financial capacity than Harvard or a liberal arts school with a big endowment. And certainly there are some private schools that are investing in athletics. Look at the facilities at Hope and Calvin.

I am intrigued by this point to the point that I'll have to go look at the SUNY facilities online because I am not convinced that a look at the Midwest supports these claims.  Particularly the suggestion that they can borrow more easily, making it easier to build.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2022, 01:02:19 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 28, 2022, 08:17:38 PM

I wonder how much of Houghton's recruiting is local, though. If they're relying heavily on denominational connections, lacrosse might not be as popular where the students are actually coming from.

In terms of Houghton's undergrad student body, 63% are New York State residents. The rosters of the various Highlanders teams are dominated by western and central New Yorkers, with the conspicuous exception of the men's and women's basketball teams, and of the out-of-staters who play sports for Houghton a fair number are from Pennsylvania towns close to the NY-PA border, which isn't far south of Houghton.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on June 29, 2022, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 28, 2022, 09:01:48 AM
Quote from: thebear on June 28, 2022, 08:45:23 AM
Before i retired I did athletic budgets and the NCAA reporting for a state operated campus.  Their funding streams are complex.  The facilities are largely funded by the state including buildings, utilities, janitorial staff etc. 

Do you mind providing an example of a state school that is largely funded by the state, given the continuous decline in state funding over the last few decades?

I'd be interested to see this as well. I know at CNU in the past 25 years state funding has gone from about 75% of the operating budget down to just over 20%. (UVA receives 5% from the Commonwealth - might as well be private with their $5B endowment). I know someone at USC-Aiken and they also get just over 20% from the State. State schools for the most part are not largely funded by the state to the extent they once were.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2022, 07:55:07 PM

This doesn't give you everything you want, but here's 2019 state funding data by state, both including and excluding tuition payments.

https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/state-and-local-backgrounders/higher-education-expenditures#:~:text=The%20United%20States%2C%20on%20average,public%20postsecondary%20institutions%20in%202019.&text=Alaska%20spent%20the%20most%2C%20with,%2C%20and%20Pennsylvania%20(%2438%2C664).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 12:10:06 AM

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 01, 2022, 05:55:37 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 12:10:06 AM

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.
Ryan, you know the Northeast well.
So, Salve Regina was more acceptable than Hartford?
Can you answer, why?
Thx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 10:47:11 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 01, 2022, 05:55:37 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 12:10:06 AM

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.
Ryan, you know the Northeast well.
So, Salve Regina was more acceptable than Hartford?
Can you answer, why?
Thx

Hartford doesn't have football. That's what I have to assume.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

Didn't Emerson and CGA move in the '90s? They definitely were not in the CCC when I was in college.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 01, 2022, 11:55:41 AM
Emerson was a charter member of the CCC from 1984 to 1989. Then they were a charter member of the GNAC and moved to the NEWMAC in 2013-14.

Coast Guard has been a NEWMAC member since 1998 when the New England Women's 8 Conference started conference play and added men's sports (https://www.newmacsports.com/information/about/index). But before that, they were also in the CCC (1984-1987).


Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 01, 2022, 02:06:07 PM
I heard the WIAC and CCIW are going to form one big power conference, and to follow suit, the NESCAC and the UAA will be doing the same thing. By 2026, those will be the only two conferences and everyone else will be an independent.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 01, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 12:10:06 AM

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.

Got a link? I'm not seeing it on the NEWMAC or SR websites.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on July 01, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 12:10:06 AM

Salve Regina to the NEWMAC.

Got a link? I'm not seeing it on the NEWMAC or SR websites.

It's not been announced yet, but it's been an open secret for a while and Dave McHugh reported it yesterday. I trust his legwork. Today's July 1, new fiscal year, so it might get announced today.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: saratoga on July 01, 2022, 03:00:08 PM

Maybe the Centennial & Landmark should start some conversations.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 04:39:32 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

Didn't Emerson and CGA move in the '90s? They definitely were not in the CCC when I was in college.

"Recent" was probably a poor choice of words on my part.  But I don't think Football should have been a factor in a choice of SR over Hartford.  Only 4 of the conference football teams are full NEWMAC members; not the kind of thing that enhances rivalries.

Suffolk would have been a better fit athletically and academically IMO.

If the NEWMAC is moving to 9, might as well move to 10. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 01, 2022, 10:03:51 PM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 04:39:32 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

Didn't Emerson and CGA move in the '90s? They definitely were not in the CCC when I was in college.

"Recent" was probably a poor choice of words on my part.  But I don't think Football should have been a factor in a choice of SR over Hartford.  Only 4 of the conference football teams are full NEWMAC members; not the kind of thing that enhances rivalries.

Suffolk would have been a better fit athletically and academically IMO.

If the NEWMAC is moving to 9, might as well move to 10.
...and NEWMAC women from 12 to 13...(?)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: BaboNation on July 02, 2022, 09:40:12 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 01, 2022, 10:03:51 PM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 04:39:32 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

Didn't Emerson and CGA move in the '90s? They definitely were not in the CCC when I was in college.

"Recent" was probably a poor choice of words on my part.  But I don't think Football should have been a factor in a choice of SR over Hartford.  Only 4 of the conference football teams are full NEWMAC members; not the kind of thing that enhances rivalries.

Suffolk would have been a better fit athletically and academically IMO.

If the NEWMAC is moving to 9, might as well move to 10.
...and NEWMAC women from 12 to 13...(?)

I just think for the men, if they go to 9 it reduces the likelihood of the current home and away games in basketball.  I'm not saying it's impossible, and other conferences manage, but OOC games get reduced.

For the women, they've already had to live with a random H&A schedule of conference opponents each year.  I think the larger issue for them is each time you add a team it reduces the chance of a H&A with traditional rivals like the all-women institutions of Smith, Wellesley, and Mount Holyoke.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 02, 2022, 10:55:29 AM

I suspect there may still be some dominoes to fall in New England. The NECC schools need to go somewhere and both the NAC and GNAC are a little large. There's probably room for another conference or reshuffling.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 02, 2022, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 02, 2022, 10:55:29 AM

I suspect there may still be some dominoes to fall in New England. The NECC schools need to go somewhere and both the NAC and GNAC are a little large. There's probably room for another conference or reshuffling.
However, considering the geography, it looks like the NAC is adapting very nicely with its divisional format.

They are big conferences, but they both maintain access to the AQ in plenty of sports, where they would not have enough for 2 separate AQ's
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 05, 2022, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 04:39:32 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 01, 2022, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: BaboNation on July 01, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Well as a NEWMAC fan I don't like this at all.  This isn't about Hartford or Salve Regina with me, but about the effect this will have on the conference, and most particularly home & away games for men's basketball.  Now there will be 9 on the men's side and 12 for women.  Or is there another shoe or 2 to drop?

So I believe this is the 3rd CCC team to migrate to the NEWMAC in recent years after Coast Guard and Emerson.  If I truly wanted to "poach" a CCC member I would have wanted Suffolk (to me, a much better overall fit) but maybe they're happy where they are.

Didn't Emerson and CGA move in the '90s? They definitely were not in the CCC when I was in college.

"Recent" was probably a poor choice of words on my part.  But I don't think Football should have been a factor in a choice of SR over Hartford.  Only 4 of the conference football teams are full NEWMAC members; not the kind of thing that enhances rivalries.

Kind of all the more reason to add a full/core member that plays football. Catholic left the conference, Maine Maritime dropped football, and the NEWMAC certainly could use stability for its conference schedule for football.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 06, 2022, 02:10:39 PM
Carlow to AMCC was announced this morning. Presuming they clear all the hurdles, joining 2023-24 and fully postseason eligible in 2026-27.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 06, 2022, 02:32:10 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 06, 2022, 02:10:39 PM
Carlow to AMCC was announced this morning. Presuming they clear all the hurdles, joining 2023-24 and fully postseason eligible in 2026-27.

The article says it best for the move...it looks like they were reducing costs. I noticed for basketball they were playing a few D1 schools. (VMI, Bowling Green and JMU). The current NAIA conference they are in have schools in Kentucky, Ohio, WV, PA and Indiana. I guess scheduling and travel were issues since they were playing D1 schools and traveling.

I just looked at their athletics website. Of the team sports they sponsor with W-L records (i.e not counting track or XC) they were 40-144-2 (21.5%) last year.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 06, 2022, 10:21:06 PM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Asbury
1st year provisional members: Hartford (headed to CCC)
Exploratory: Lyon, Carlow (headed to AMCC)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 09, 2022, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 24, 2022, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 24, 2022, 04:30:40 PM
It looks like there is something brewing (after a few false starts) with Lancaster Bible switching conferences. Also a couple of the United East schools are looking around and if they find a home, that might just doom the United East. I wonder what would happen to St. Mary's and Gallaudet down south........and the three Penn State schools (Abington, Berks, Harrisburg) as well.

The Conference roulette wheel just keeps on a spinning.........and MAC rumors are getting stronger AFTER the Wilkes and Lycoming departures (and the Leb Val switch). There are a few schools approaching the MAC regarding joining the conference. I'm at a loss as to who though.

Lancaster Bible has been looking at the CSAC, right? But I wonder if the MAC is a better spot for them.

St. Mary's and Gallaudet could go back to the CAC. I know they left and that Gallaudet was not in good shape when it left the league, but the league is not in good shape right now.

If I had to guess as to who would be approaching the MAC, I'd start with the same pipeline as always: CSAC to MAC. Keystone would be the one that I would guess to be the most interested.

My guess is that Lancaster Bible does wind up in the CSAC, although with the number of sports they are adding over the next couple of years, they would have just about every sport as the non-football schools in the MAC offer.

The Landmark is still sniffing around the MAC and would love to add two schools that play football, but while I have no idea, I could venture a guess or two given the similar ilk as Wilkes and Lycoming (I'm thinking Misericordia and Leb Val).

The United East is in trouble and while St. Mary's and Gallaudet could rather easily slide back into the CAC........I have no clue where the 3 PSU schools (Abington, Harrisburg and Berks) wind up. Maybe that on again, off again, on again, off again conjecture (vs. rumor) about an all or primarily PSU conference eventually does wind up happening.

I think that the MAC will always be fine for many reasons and if they do have a couple of football teams move on, they are in great shape as is OR they talk to a couple of the schools who have reached out to them given a possible shaky conference future (particularly in football)..........and we could probably name an NJAC team or two who might like to be preemptive.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 13, 2022, 09:55:53 PM
The story we posted to Twitter on June 30 and that Ryan mentioned above is now official, with Salve Regina to join the NEWMAC for all sports starting in the fall of 2023:

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/07/salve-regina-newmac
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 27, 2022, 02:31:17 PM
Coast 2 Coast adds Warren Wilson: https://c2csports.com/general/2022-23/releases/20220718odnmbk
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on July 28, 2022, 08:30:03 AM
and although this is not basketball related you can see the C2C is active this summer. Trying to resolve one issue at a time... Men's LAX is now good.

https://c2csports.com/sports/mlax/2021-22/releases/20220725g40kru (https://c2csports.com/sports/mlax/2021-22/releases/20220725g40kru)

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 01, 2022, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on July 27, 2022, 02:31:17 PM
Coast 2 Coast adds Warren Wilson: https://c2csports.com/general/2022-23/releases/20220718odnmbk
This one surprised me. I thought USA South or CCS would have grabbed Warren Wilson. Maybe those conferences wanted to see how the USAS/CCS split played out before they added new members, or perhaps they wanted to wait until WWC became a full NCAA member.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 01, 2022, 11:29:08 AM
The Collegiate Conference of the South now has an official website.
https://collegiateconferenceofthesouth.com/index.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 01, 2022, 06:13:27 PM
My guess is that WWC's mission & vision is closer to CNU & Salisbury than Huntingdon/Maryville or Methodist.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 01, 2022, 07:48:00 PM

I'm guessing WW doesn't sponsor enough or all of the desirable sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 08, 2022, 03:26:22 PM
Updated with the release of the June membership committee report (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/June2022D3Memb_Report.pdf)

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: augie77 on August 08, 2022, 11:00:48 PM
Thank you for these updates!  Why are there so many changes occurring in the East and Northeast, and very few changes in the West and Midwest?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 09, 2022, 02:45:47 PM
Quote from: augie77 on August 08, 2022, 11:00:48 PM
Thank you for these updates!  Why are there so many changes occurring in the East and Northeast, and very few changes in the West and Midwest?
My guess is geography is a big part. Lots of conferences in a small area in the east so changing conferences isn't too bad. In the midwest there isn't nearly the overlap of conferences so changing here would cause a lot more travel. Also, many conferences are poaching schools trying to ensure they have enough schools for the AQ while other parts of the country conferences are pretty comfortable and not at threat of losing the AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on August 10, 2022, 08:26:11 AM
Inkblot,

Thanks for updating the moves and bringing it up to the front so we can ponder things.

What conference(s) is Bob Jones in? I can't find anything. On D3hoops.com when you select Teams/Conferences, they are not listed as Independent. When I search through other teams schedules I see a link for their D3hoops page and it doesn't list a current schedule and when I click 20-21 for them I get a 404 error.

Thanks for any help!

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 10, 2022, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on August 10, 2022, 08:26:11 AM
Inkblot,

Thanks for updating the moves and bringing it up to the front so we can ponder things.

What conference(s) is Bob Jones in? I can't find anything. On D3hoops.com when you select Teams/Conferences, they are not listed as Independent. When I search through other teams schedules I see a link for their D3hoops page and it doesn't list a current schedule and when I click 20-21 for them I get a 404 error.

Thanks for any help!
Bob Jones competed in NCCAA Division II last season.

The men's basketball team played several D3 schools with which we are familiar (Brevard Oglethorpe, Piedmont).
https://www.bjubruins.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 10, 2022, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on August 10, 2022, 08:26:11 AM
Inkblot,

Thanks for updating the moves and bringing it up to the front so we can ponder things.

What conference(s) is Bob Jones in? I can't find anything. On D3hoops.com when you select Teams/Conferences, they are not listed as Independent. When I search through other teams schedules I see a link for their D3hoops page and it doesn't list a current schedule and when I click 20-21 for them I get a 404 error.

Thanks for any help!
As far as I can tell, they're still mainly in the NCCAA (at least through last season) as they won the NCCAA D2 South Regional and competed in the NCCAA D2 National tournament. The only D3 teams they played last year were Piedmont x2, Brevard x2, Warren WIlson x2, Oglethorpe, They have both the NCAA D3 and NCCAA logos on their page but no conference so I assume they've not joined one yet.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on August 11, 2022, 10:52:46 AM
Thanks FC. I appreciate the research. Strange they are not in a conference and also not listed on d3hoops.com as an independent. Yet they are 3rd yr provisional members. I guess since they are not full members yet, they still have time to figure it all out.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: stlawus on August 13, 2022, 10:26:14 PM
Does anyone know anything about Utica's move to division II?   I was thinking about this today as I thought the move was official, but when you google search the topic you don't really get much on it.  All the results are news articles from early spring speculating about what hockey conference they'll join.   So is there a timeline for this move or is it still not official?  Seems like there would be a lot more information on how they're making the transition.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 14, 2022, 12:03:24 AM
Quote from: stlawus on August 13, 2022, 10:26:14 PM
Does anyone know anything about Utica's move to division II?   I was thinking about this today as I thought the move was official, but when you google search the topic you don't really get much on it.  All the results are news articles from early spring speculating about what hockey conference they'll join.   So is there a timeline for this move or is it still not official?  Seems like there would be a lot more information on how they're making the transition.

From what I understand, they're waiting to move until they have a d1 hockey conference.  They were not on  the d2 reclassification list this year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: stlawus on August 14, 2022, 12:13:33 AM
I guess I already had it in my head they made the move and would move up after this upcoming season.  Probably going to be several years then.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 14, 2022, 08:37:43 AM
Quote from: stlawus on August 14, 2022, 12:13:33 AM
I guess I already had it in my head they made the move and would move up after this upcoming season.  Probably going to be several years then.

I think they were hopeful it would be quicker.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 14, 2022, 01:39:04 PM
If the AQ for football remains at 7, and the E8 drops to 6, with the departure of Utica, whom does the E8 poach invite to affiliate/join? (Please remember that the E8 needs baseball members, too.)

Any offseason speculation?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: stlawus on August 14, 2022, 02:41:37 PM
AQ is now 6.   They technically don't need another member, but I'm sure they'll look for one.  I get the feeling original E8 schools like SJF, Alfred and Naz will be looking to move, as that conference has become a bit diluted in terms of competition with the new additions.  Ithaca joined the Liberty League partly due to that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 14, 2022, 06:19:25 PM
Hilbert is the most obvious E8 football candidate.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 15, 2022, 10:51:33 AM
Quote from: stlawus on August 14, 2022, 02:41:37 PM
AQ is now 6.   They technically don't need another member, but I'm sure they'll look for one.  I get the feeling original E8 schools like SJF, Alfred and Naz will be looking to move, as that conference has become a bit diluted in terms of competition with the new additions.  Ithaca joined the Liberty League partly due to that.
... so what you are surmising/suggesting is that SJF, Alfred and Naz would like to move to the Liberty League, too?

What other option might there be?

Thanks
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 15, 2022, 02:04:10 PM
Wells from United East to AMCC next year.

https://www.amccsports.org/general/2022-23/releases/Wells_Announcement

The UEC will be down to 7 members (entirely in PA/MD/DC) as we already knew Morrisville was moving to the NAC.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 15, 2022, 05:55:11 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 22, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
Updated to include Lyon to the SLIAC (also Salve Regina to the NEWMAC was missing)

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 22, 2022, 02:55:58 PM
And, I assume that Lyon becomes a Football affiliate for the UMAC, and they are glad to have them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 22, 2022, 02:58:52 PM
I chatted with Lyon today -- that is not part of this package. They may well end up doing that, but it hasn't happened today.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 23, 2022, 10:58:29 AM

Our list has MUW in the SLIAC this year, but the Lyon announcement has them joining in 2023-24 (along with Lyon) - plus, the MUW MBB schedule is posted and it doesn't include conference games, so it's likely they're still a year off.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 23, 2022, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 23, 2022, 10:58:29 AM

Our list has MUW in the SLIAC this year, but the Lyon announcement has them joining in 2023-24 (along with Lyon) - plus, the MUW MBB schedule is posted and it doesn't include conference games, so it's likely they're still a year off.
Yep, MUW's other sports schedules still finish with the respective USCAA championships, and MUW isn't listed in the SLIAC standings for any sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 23, 2022, 12:27:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 22, 2022, 02:55:58 PM
And, I assume that Lyon becomes a Football affiliate for the UMAC, and they are glad to have them.

Travel for both conferences will be tough, but roughly speaking, it is
300 miles to Marshall TX (ETBU)
400 miles to Sherman TX (Austin College)
550 miles to Belton TX (UMHB)
580 miles to Brownwood (HPU)
600 miles to Abilene (HSU & McMurry)
650 miles to Seguin (TLU)
900 miles to Alpine (Sul Ross State)

In the UMAC

270 miles to Fulton MO (Westminster)
315 miles to Greenville IL (Greenville)
736 miles to New Ulm MN (Martin Luther)
750 miles to Roseville MN (Northwestern)
750 miles to St Bonifacius MN (Crown)
900 miles to Morris MN (MN-Morris)
940 miles to Hancock MI (Finlandia)


Is it easier to sell a football program to a high school student in Arkansas who reads about the SEC all of the time and the Razorbacks playing UT and A&M, then going to play football games in Texas, or traveling 900 miles north to play in a snowstorm in late October/early November?
I believe that Lyon would be more successful in the UMAC than going up against UMHB, HSU and that next tier of ASC competition.

Having looked at the data, I wonder if affirming its conference affiliation as a SLIAC school is the difference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 23, 2022, 01:57:21 PM
MUW was originally set to join the SLIAC when they finished provisional membership, but then they had to repeat Year Two, so I'd assume that's why they're pushing back the join date.

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 23, 2022, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 23, 2022, 12:27:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 22, 2022, 02:55:58 PM
And, I assume that Lyon becomes a Football affiliate for the UMAC, and they are glad to have them.

Travel for both conferences will be tough, but roughly speaking, it is
300 miles to Marshall TX (ETBU)
400 miles to Sherman TX (Austin College)
550 miles to Belton TX (UMHB)
580 miles to Brownwood (HPU)
600 miles to Abilene (HSU & McMurry)
650 miles to Seguin (TLU)
900 miles to Alpine (Sul Ross State)

In the UMAC

270 miles to Fulton MO (Westminster)
315 miles to Greenville IL (Greenville)
736 miles to New Ulm MN (Martin Luther)
750 miles to Roseville MN (Northwestern)
750 miles to St Bonifacius MN (Crown)
900 miles to Morris MN (MN-Morris)
940 miles to Hancock MI (Finlandia)


Is it easier to sell a football program to a high school student in Arkansas who reads about the SEC all of the time and the Razorbacks playing UT and A&M, then going to play football games in Texas, or traveling 900 miles north to play in a snowstorm in late October/early November?

Plus, better barbecue.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 23, 2022, 12:27:15 PMI believe that Lyon would be more successful in the UMAC than going up against UMHB, HSU and that next tier of ASC competition.

That goes without saying, really. UMHB is king of the hill in D3 football and HSU is very good, whereas the UMAC is possibly the weakest conference in all of D3 football.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 23, 2022, 12:27:15 PMHaving looked at the data, I wonder if affirming its conference affiliation as a SLIAC school is the difference.

Aye, there's the rub. Even though the SLIAC really has no effect upon football affiliation in the formal sense, joining the UMAC would give Lyon a chance to develop and expand insitutional rivalries with two of its new SLIAC brethren, Greenville and Westminster (MO). It would also be a more congenial competitive environment for a Scots football program that went 2-7 in its NAIA league last season and was outscored by an average of almost four touchdowns per game.

Still ... barbecue > tater tot hotdish.  ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 23, 2022, 03:57:49 PM
It looks like Lyon is used to long road trips in football as they currently compete in the Sooner Athletic Conference which includes two Arizona schools, and 3-4 Texas schools.

https://lyonscots.com/sports/football/schedule
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: crufootball on August 23, 2022, 09:11:31 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on August 23, 2022, 03:57:49 PM
It looks like Lyon is used to long road trips in football as they currently compete in the Sooner Athletic Conference which includes two Arizona schools, and 3-4 Texas schools.

https://lyonscots.com/sports/football/schedule

Long trips indeed

1375 miles to Arizona Christian
400 miles to Langston University
350 miles to Louisiana Christian (formerly Louisiana College)
1375  miles to Ottawa University
650 miles to Panhandle State
450 miles to Southwestern Assembly of God
350 miles to Texas College
450 miles to Texas Wesleyan
700 miles to Wayland Baptist

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
LIke most of the South, Arkansas's just not an ideal location for a college in terms of travel with regard to small-college intercollegiate sports, whether the school is in D2, D3, or the NAIA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 24, 2022, 11:06:53 AM
Very true.  Arkansas is Hendrix, Harding, Lyon, Ozarks and a bunch of Baptist colleges.  Lots of publics.

Harding is Division II and the University of the Ozarks does not compete in football, it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_Arkansas

A remarkable contrast to say Iowa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_Iowa
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 24, 2022, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
LIke most of the South, Arkansas's just not an ideal location for a college in terms of travel with regard to small-college intercollegiate sports, whether the school is in D2, D3, or the NAIA.

D2 is definitely an exception here. There's an entire 12-team conference with teams only in Arkansas and Oklahoma.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 24, 2022, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
LIke most of the South, Arkansas's just not an ideal location for a college in terms of travel with regard to small-college intercollegiate sports, whether the school is in D2, D3, or the NAIA.

D2 is definitely an exception here. There's an entire 12-team conference with teams only in Arkansas and Oklahoma.

There's still some mileage to put on the bus in that conference. However, there's two schools in particular in that conference who don't have to go far at all to reach each other's campus. (https://www.si.com/college/2019/11/29/ouachita-baptist-henderson-state-rivalry)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 24, 2022, 02:40:05 PM
That is an awesome story.

Past tailgaters saluting with Solo cups from atop pickup-truck beds, the Henderson State Reddies march. Past family members reaching for fist bumps and alumni clanging cowbells and cheerleaders ruffling pompoms. Past trilling piccolos and tooting tubas and the upright feather plumes of the Showband of Arkansas. Past a massive sign hanging from a student apartment, underneath a cloudless Saturday afternoon sky: OUACHITA PLAYS MADDEN ON ROOKIE MODE.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 02:45:11 PM
Yeah, that's a fun read. It's stayed in my mind two years after I first read it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2022, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 24, 2022, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
LIke most of the South, Arkansas's just not an ideal location for a college in terms of travel with regard to small-college intercollegiate sports, whether the school is in D2, D3, or the NAIA.

D2 is definitely an exception here. There's an entire 12-team conference with teams only in Arkansas and Oklahoma.

There's still some mileage to put on the bus in that conference. However, there's two schools in particular in that conference who don't have to go far at all to reach each other's campus. (https://www.si.com/college/2019/11/29/ouachita-baptist-henderson-state-rivalry)
Respect your rival. He will bring out the best performance you can give!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 24, 2022, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2022, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 24, 2022, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
LIke most of the South, Arkansas's just not an ideal location for a college in terms of travel with regard to small-college intercollegiate sports, whether the school is in D2, D3, or the NAIA.

D2 is definitely an exception here. There's an entire 12-team conference with teams only in Arkansas and Oklahoma.

There's still some mileage to put on the bus in that conference. However, there's two schools in particular in that conference who don't have to go far at all to reach each other's campus. (https://www.si.com/college/2019/11/29/ouachita-baptist-henderson-state-rivalry)
Respect your rival. He will bring out the best performance you can give!

I don't know that that statement is gender-specific.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2022, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 24, 2022, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2022, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 24, 2022, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
LIke most of the South, Arkansas's just not an ideal location for a college in terms of travel with regard to small-college intercollegiate sports, whether the school is in D2, D3, or the NAIA.

D2 is definitely an exception here. There's an entire 12-team conference with teams only in Arkansas and Oklahoma.

There's still some mileage to put on the bus in that conference. However, there's two schools in particular in that conference who don't have to go far at all to reach each other's campus. (https://www.si.com/college/2019/11/29/ouachita-baptist-henderson-state-rivalry)
Respect your rival. He will bring out the best performance you can give!

I don't know that that statement is gender-specific.
True. (In this case, the major focus was on the football games the 2 schools had played.)

Respect your rival. S/he will bring out the best performance you can give!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2022, 12:09:08 PM
The shuffle never ends:
https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/09/gnac-expands-necc-smaller-mitchell-new-england-college
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 13, 2022, 12:27:36 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on September 13, 2022, 02:34:40 PM
Notre Dame (MD) is going co-ed next year and will add men's sports. https://www.ndm.edu/news-and-events/news/frequently-asked-questions-ndmu-becomes-co-ed
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 13, 2022, 03:12:47 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on September 13, 2022, 02:34:40 PM
Notre Dame (MD) is going co-ed next year and will add men's sports. https://www.ndm.edu/news-and-events/news/frequently-asked-questions-ndmu-becomes-co-ed

We'll have to see as this develops.  Sometimes those schools start with club teams for a year or two before they jump in, but I'll add it to the list, at least tentatively.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 13, 2022, 03:43:51 PM
It's hard to declare that you're adding a sport for the next school year once the current year has already started. And adding multiple sports makes it that much harder, because, for one thing, it's really difficult for a small school to hire multiple head coaches at the same time just from the angle of filling out your hiring committees. Revamping the athletics budget? That's a huge undertaking, and you're really doing it under the gun if you're starting this late. And then there's the matter of recruiting; if you're going to add, say, a men's cross-country team or a men's soccer team for 2023-24, you need to have a coach or coaches out there watching high school games and meets and talking to prospects right now.

NDMU, don't be the little kid who jumps into the deep end of the pool five seconds after you've taken off your floaties. Give yourselves a full school year to get your staff, your budget, your facilities scheduling, your PR, and your recruiting in place. Or is NDMU so hard up for tuition money that the school needs swarms of male bodies on campus, pronto? We can't overlook that possibility.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on September 13, 2022, 04:51:14 PM
The Q&A says they will begin varsity athletics in 2023-2024.

As often as we talk about athletics as an enrollment management strategy, I would be good money that athletics are the biggest part of the plan to go co-ed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 13, 2022, 06:08:03 PM

Their basketball team was pretty good last year, but generally NDMD has not been known for quality athletics. I study its much more about providing opportunity.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 13, 2022, 06:28:35 PM
I know they have to add 4-5 men's sports at least, depending on enrollment, in order to comply with NCAA rules, but is there a grace period or do they have to be compliant as soon as men step on campus? I don't recall what places like Mary Baldwin, Wells and New Rochelle did in the past.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2022, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2022, 12:09:08 PM
The shuffle never ends:
https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/09/gnac-expands-necc-smaller-mitchell-new-england-college
Does Eastern Nazarene move back to the CCC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 13, 2022, 08:50:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2022, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2022, 12:09:08 PM
The shuffle never ends:
https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/09/gnac-expands-necc-smaller-mitchell-new-england-college
Does Eastern Nazarene move back to the CCC?

They're in the GNAC for a few sports already. That still seems like the most viable option, if the GNAC is willing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 15, 2022, 07:51:27 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on September 13, 2022, 06:28:35 PM
I know they have to add 4-5 men's sports at least, depending on enrollment, in order to comply with NCAA rules, but is there a grace period or do they have to be compliant as soon as men step on campus? I don't recall what places like Mary Baldwin, Wells and New Rochelle did in the past.

I don't know the specifics but yes, there has been a grace period for other schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 01, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
McMurry to the SCAC in 2024. No word on what'll happen with football. https://mcmurrysports.com/news/2022/11/1/general-mcmurry-university-unifies-intercollegiate-athletics-joining-southern-collegiate-athletic-conference-in-fall-2024.aspx

EDIT: I forgot about Centenary adding football in 2024. So it seems almost certain the SCAC will resume sponsoring it then.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 01, 2022, 02:32:16 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 01, 2022, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on November 01, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
McMurry to the SCAC in 2024. No word on what'll happen with football. https://mcmurrysports.com/news/2022/11/1/general-mcmurry-university-unifies-intercollegiate-athletics-joining-southern-collegiate-athletic-conference-in-fall-2024.aspx

Big news. I'm dying to hear Ralph's thoughts about his alma mater switching leagues.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 01, 2022, 03:31:30 PM
SCAC should get a football Pool A from the start in 2024 and the American Southwest enter the 2 year grace period, to move to Pool B in 2026 if they don't get back up to 6 teams.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2022, 07:02:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 01, 2022, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on November 01, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
McMurry to the SCAC in 2024. No word on what'll happen with football. https://mcmurrysports.com/news/2022/11/1/general-mcmurry-university-unifies-intercollegiate-athletics-joining-southern-collegiate-athletic-conference-in-fall-2024.aspx

Big news. I'm dying to hear Ralph's thoughts about his alma mater switching leagues.
Athletics has not had the same emphasis under Dr Sandra Harper as it did under Dr Robert E Shimp and Dr John Russell.

Dr Shimp was a graduate of Thiel and had connections to Ohio Wesleyan (Chair Dept of History) and Millikin (Provost & Acting President). Dr Shimp helped create the ASC and move McMurry to D-III from the NAIA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 02, 2022, 04:23:04 PM
https://scacsports.prestosports.com/sports/fball/2022-23/releases/scac_announces_lyon_addition_football_return

So here we have it:

* Austin, Centenary, McMurry, and affiliate member Lyon (who will be in their final provisional year) will play a double round robin in 2024

* Schreiner intends to add football by 2025 and no later than 2026

* Southwestern, Texas Lutheran, and Trinity will be in their current football conferences in 2024 but move to the SCAC by 2026

The SCAC expects to have an 8-team football conference by 2026.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on November 02, 2022, 04:37:19 PM
My first though was that Lyon may well look to the SCAC for full membership, but McMurry will give the SCAC an even 10 members and Texas being so big, I think the SLIAC will make for shorter road trips, I think.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2022, 11:11:22 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2022, 07:02:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 01, 2022, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on November 01, 2022, 02:30:11 PM
McMurry to the SCAC in 2024. No word on what'll happen with football. https://mcmurrysports.com/news/2022/11/1/general-mcmurry-university-unifies-intercollegiate-athletics-joining-southern-collegiate-athletic-conference-in-fall-2024.aspx

Big news. I'm dying to hear Ralph's thoughts about his alma mater switching leagues.
Athletics has not had the same emphasis under Dr Sandra Harper as it did under Dr Robert E Shimp and Dr John Russell.

Dr Shimp was a graduate of Thiel and had connections to Ohio Wesleyan (Chair Dept of History) and Millikin (Provost & Acting President). Dr Shimp helped create the ASC and move McMurry to D-III from the NAIA.
More information on McMurry

Dr Harper began her Presidency in 2013, when McMurry was pulling back from D2.

In its history in the ASC, it is tied for 7th all-time in division championships.

The last division championships by sports were:

Baseball 2008 (Quad)
Men's Hoops in 2012
Women's Hoops in 2009, but had very competitive teams in the 1999 thru 2008 era including a Jostens' winner in 2008, Tara Richardson
Volleyball 2011
Men's Tennis 2010
Men's Soccer 2003
Women's Tennis 2012.

McM is 4th all time in conference championships with 49, including 17 men's and 13 women's outdoor track and field.
Last conference championships by year are:
MT&F 2022
WT&F 2022
Men's Hoops 2012
Women's Hoops 2006
Men's XC 2000
Women's XC 2006
Men's Golf 2004
Women's Golf 2008
Women's Tennis 1999
Women's Volleyball 1997.

Former Track Coach Barbara Crousen was the 1st woman to win a Men's National Championship in any sport, in any Division in the NCAA in 2008 and then repeated in 2012. She was Women's runner-up in 2002 and Men's Runner-up in 2009.

You can see that Athletics has not been an emphasis of the university over the last decade.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2022, 04:49:21 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on November 02, 2022, 04:37:19 PM
My first though was that Lyon may well look to the SCAC for full membership, but McMurry will give the SCAC an even 10 members and Texas being so big, I think the SLIAC will make for shorter road trips, I think.

And I don't think the SCAC has any interest in having to travel all the way to Arkansas for all their sports.  They would probably end up being travel partners with Centenary which by itself is a 300 mile journey over some not so-great roads.   It's basically 700 miles from Schreiner, now that is going to be a fun trip for football. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2022, 05:41:31 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2022, 04:49:21 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on November 02, 2022, 04:37:19 PM
My first though was that Lyon may well look to the SCAC for full membership, but McMurry will give the SCAC an even 10 members and Texas being so big, I think the SLIAC will make for shorter road trips, I think.

And I don't think the SCAC has any interest in having to travel all the way to Arkansas for all their sports.  They would probably end up being travel partners with Centenary which by itself is a 300 mile journey over some not so-great roads.   It's basically 700 miles from Schreiner, now that is going to be a fun trip for football. 
Football, SCAC, yes. For Lyon the distance for competing in the UMAC and SCAC are about the same, but the weather is warmer.

My next question is whether UOzarks follows Lyon into the SLIAC, now that McMurry has left. The mileage is something to consider, but I think that UOzarks would be more competitive in the SLIAC in all sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 07, 2022, 02:42:55 PM
Saw a rumor today about Sul Ross State going D2... anyone know anything about that?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2022, 03:12:30 PM
There's been similar talk around but have seen nothing more concrete.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 16, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
Reportedly the Texas State University system will vote on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2022, 12:38:15 PM
Cazenovia College closing at the end of the school year in May. Just announced this morning.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 07, 2022, 02:31:43 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 07, 2022, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2022, 12:38:15 PM
Cazenovia College closing at the end of the school year in May. Just announced this morning.

Does this open a spot for Eastern Nazarene in the NAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2022, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on December 07, 2022, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2022, 12:38:15 PM
Cazenovia College closing at the end of the school year in May. Just announced this morning.

Does this open a spot for Eastern Nazarene in the NAC?

Perhaps.  I suspect the GNAC is still more likely for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2022, 04:08:04 PM
it certainly gives the NAC an odd number (13) they weren't expecting. They were planning on Morrisville to the West and Lesley to the East for an even split of 14 schools. Adding ENC, putting them in the East, and then moving NVU Lyndon to the West might be the least messy way for the NAC to resolve this.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 07, 2022, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2022, 04:08:04 PM
it certainly gives the NAC an odd number (13) they weren't expecting. They were planning on Morrisville to the West and Lesley to the East for an even split of 14 schools. Adding ENC, putting them in the East, and then moving NVU Lyndon to the West might be the least messy way for the NAC to resolve this.

Having Johnson and Lyndon in separate divisions was awkward to start with.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 08, 2022, 03:26:54 PM
Johnson & Wales from GNAC to CCC in 2024-25

https://cccathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/JWUAnnouncement
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 08, 2022, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 08, 2022, 03:26:54 PM
Johnson & Wales from GNAC to CCC in 2024-25

https://cccathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/JWUAnnouncement

There's been much speculation that Nichols will be going D2 soon, so this would be a replacement school to keep them at 10.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 08, 2022, 05:22:11 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 19, 2022, 01:48:07 PM
https://d3sports.com/notables/2022/12/csac-uec-merger-coming
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 19, 2022, 02:12:10 PM
So a group of teams left the CSAC to form the AEC in 18, the NEAC became the UEC in 21, the UEC and CSAC will merge possibly in 23, and I still get the AEC and UEC confused.

Come on regions 1-5, quit playing musical chairs. ::)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 19, 2022, 02:13:35 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 19, 2022, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 19, 2022, 02:12:10 PM
So a group of teams left the CSAC to form the AEC in 18, the NEAC became the UEC in 21, the UEC and CSAC will merge possibly in 23, and I still get the AEC and UEC confused.

Come on regions 1-5, quit playing musical chairs. ::)

And six of the ten CSAC members used to be in the NEAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 19, 2022, 04:17:40 PM
some of those CSAC schools have to be in dire financial straits. Personally, I'm shocked Saint Elizabeth is still open.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2022, 05:15:46 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 19, 2022, 04:17:40 PM
some of those CSAC schools have to be in dire financial straits. Personally, I'm shocked Saint Elizabeth is still open.

That's the subtext to this, right? We'll merge 17 schools together in one conference and hope we'll still have 12 in the long run.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: stlawus on December 22, 2022, 02:07:30 PM
So does this create 21 pool C slots once the CSAC and UEC merge?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 22, 2022, 03:21:48 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 22, 2022, 02:07:30 PM
So does this create 21 pool C slots once the CASAC and UEC merge?

Should be 22 next year and 21 thereafter.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 30, 2022, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on December 22, 2022, 03:21:48 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 22, 2022, 02:07:30 PM
So does this create 21 pool C slots once the CASAC and UEC merge?

Should be 22 next year and 21 thereafter.

I think I'm missing something on the math. Is is 21 or 22 for next year?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 30, 2022, 07:24:34 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 30, 2022, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on December 22, 2022, 03:21:48 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 22, 2022, 02:07:30 PM
So does this create 21 pool C slots once the CASAC and UEC merge?

Should be 22 next year and 21 thereafter.

I think I'm missing something on the math. Is is 21 or 22 for next year?

2022–23 season... 44 Pool A, 20 Pool C
2023–24 season... 42 Pool A (CSAC/UEC merger and loss of the NECC), 22 Pool C
2024–25 season... 43 Pool A (CCS finishes waiting period), 21 Pool C

As it stands currently there *would* be a Pool B bid next year (7 CCS + Bob Jones, Eastern Nazarene, Maranatha Baptist = 10 schools, slightly more than the 9.67 access ratio), but I expect Eastern Nazarene and/or Bob Jones will find a conference by then.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 31, 2022, 06:00:25 PM
Thanks I wasn't calculating the NECC bid in my head
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2023, 11:51:24 AM

ENC has chosen the NAC.  Starting next season.  Full member, so they'll be pulling tennis from the GNAC to make this switch.


With Caz closing and Morrisville coming in, I assume the NAC will move Lyndon over to the West (to bring it to seven teams) and then add Lesley and ENC in the east (for seven there as well).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2023, 12:44:34 PM
Congrats on your alma mater avoiding its impending orphanhood, Ryan.

It makes sense for the league to add ENC to balance out the divisions, although even the divisions themselves each occupy a pretty sizeable geographical footprint. Of course, any league that includes UMPI is almost by definition going to require a lot of road time (often under difficult road conditions). But it's nice to know that nobody's expecting a home-and-home between schools located in Presque Isle, ME and Delhi, NY.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 09, 2023, 01:56:40 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2023, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2023, 12:44:34 PM
Congrats on your alma mater avoiding its impending orphanhood, Ryan.

It makes sense for the league to add ENC to balance out the divisions, although even the divisions themselves each occupy a pretty sizeable geographical footprint. Of course, any league that includes UMPI is almost by definition going to require a lot of road time (often under difficult road conditions). But it's nice to know that nobody's expecting a home-and-home between schools located in Presque Isle, ME and Delhi, NY.

no home and home but oddly enough Delhi did make the crossover trip to Husson and UMPI this past weekend. Lost by 7 to Husson and by 3 in 2OT to UMPI on a buzzer beater. Long ride home after that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: monsoon on January 09, 2023, 04:05:09 PM
I'm glad to hear ENC has found a landing spot.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2023, 10:11:33 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2023, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2023, 12:44:34 PM
Congrats on your alma mater avoiding its impending orphanhood, Ryan.

It makes sense for the league to add ENC to balance out the divisions, although even the divisions themselves each occupy a pretty sizeable geographical footprint. Of course, any league that includes UMPI is almost by definition going to require a lot of road time (often under difficult road conditions). But it's nice to know that nobody's expecting a home-and-home between schools located in Presque Isle, ME and Delhi, NY.

no home and home but oddly enough Delhi did make the crossover trip to Husson and UMPI this past weekend. Lost by 7 to Husson and by 3 in 2OT to UMPI on a buzzer beater. Long ride home after that.

That's putting it mildy. Ten hours on a bus from Presque Isle to Delhi? Yikes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2023, 11:04:03 AM

Talk about driving, ENC is going to slot into Cazenovia's schedule for next season, before switching back to the East Division.  They're going to be logging a lot of road miles, for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on January 10, 2023, 12:06:47 PM
Sometimes, the GNAC (D2 version) buses over to Billings for baseball, softball, and soccer. At least they do from Ellensburg. I don't know about Western from Bellingham, or Western Oregon, from Monmouth, but still, that's a while on a bus.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2023, 05:42:24 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2023, 11:04:03 AM

Talk about driving, ENC is going to slot into Cazenovia's schedule for next season, before switching back to the East Division.  They're going to be logging a lot of road miles, for sure.
... and probably happy to do it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 02, 2023, 08:24:19 PM
In case anyone missed it, Sul Ross State has applied to Division II. We won't get word until July on whether they've been accepted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on February 03, 2023, 08:40:16 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on February 02, 2023, 08:24:19 PM
In case anyone missed it, Sul Ross State has applied to Division II. We won't get word until July on whether they've been accepted.

Any experts out there that can help me out? I read an article and it stated that the initial scholarship pool would be offset by travel costs as the team has to travel quite a bit. I looked at maps of the current D3 American Southwest conference and also of the D2  Lone Star Conference. I don't see much difference geographically other than a couple of schools in LSC a little closer. Both have teams in Ark.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 08, 2023, 02:21:04 PM
Johnson (VT) is leaving D3 in 2024. https://transformation.vsc.edu/announcing-changes-to-vermont-state-university-athletics-and-libraries/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on February 08, 2023, 02:34:13 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2, if accepted (would be ineligible for D3 postseason even if still in the ASC)
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2023, 06:35:02 PM
Penn State Brandywine will begin a D3 exploratory year next fall: https://www.psubrandywineathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/20230222eakf4k
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: monsoon on February 22, 2023, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2023, 06:35:02 PM
Penn State Brandywine will begin a D3 exploratory year next fall: https://www.psubrandywineathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/20230222eakf4k

Seeing that they don't have, or at least aren't announcing, conference affiliation yet got me wondering if Bob Jones or Asbury are any closer to finding a landing spot. It's strange for those two to be as far along as they are while still being independent.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 23, 2023, 08:39:56 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2023, 06:35:02 PM
Penn State Brandywine will begin a D3 exploratory year next fall: https://www.psubrandywineathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/20230222eakf4k

Interesting, I figured they would join us eventually. They're significantly larger than the other PSUAC campuses, yet only have around 1200 undergrads themselves.

C2C or the UEC/CSAC merged entity is the likely home. Down the line you might see a new conference of all 6 Penn State Somewheres, perhaps taking Pitt Bradford and Pitt Greensburg in the deal. Pitt Johnstown leaving D2 for such an arrangement might be on the table as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 23, 2023, 11:13:58 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 22, 2023, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2023, 06:35:02 PM
Penn State Brandywine will begin a D3 exploratory year next fall: https://www.psubrandywineathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/20230222eakf4k

Seeing that they don't have, or at least aren't announcing, conference affiliation yet got me wondering if Bob Jones or Asbury are any closer to finding a landing spot. It's strange for those two to be as far along as they are while still being independent.

I'm thinking Asbury will have a conference home to announce soon, but I don't get the sense Bob Jones will.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2023, 02:25:21 AM

Bob Jones has a lot of scheduling challenges, making it hard for conferences to bring them in.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2023, 08:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2023, 02:25:21 AM

Bob Jones has a lot of scheduling challenges, making it hard for conferences to bring them in.

They can go join the C2C because they don't play each other anyway.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on February 24, 2023, 09:03:42 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 23, 2023, 11:13:58 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 22, 2023, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2023, 06:35:02 PM
Penn State Brandywine will begin a D3 exploratory year next fall: https://www.psubrandywineathletics.com/general/2022-23/releases/20230222eakf4k

Seeing that they don't have, or at least aren't announcing, conference affiliation yet got me wondering if Bob Jones or Asbury are any closer to finding a landing spot. It's strange for those two to be as far along as they are while still being independent.

I'm thinking Asbury will have a conference home to announce soon, but I don't get the sense Bob Jones will.

Not sure on timing but the information we have suggests Asbury will be just fine. Stay tuned.

A change was adopted at the DIII convention a few weeks back that will require at least a conference invitation as part of the application process to DIII. I believe that goes into effect starting with the next round of applications so anything we see for next year should be tied to a conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2023, 05:13:39 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2023, 08:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2023, 02:25:21 AM

Bob Jones has a lot of scheduling challenges, making it hard for conferences to bring them in.

They can go join the C2C because they don't play each other anyway.

I'm pretty sure they have some conference games in other sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2023, 04:39:19 PM
Finlandia announced it will end operations and not enroll students for next school year.

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2023/03/02/finlandia-university-end-operations-not-enroll-students-2023-2024-academic-year/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2023, 05:15:51 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Warren Wilson joins the C2C
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the Collegiate Conference of the South
Agnes Scott, Berea, Covenant, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, and Wesleyan (GA) leave the USAC for the Collegiate Conference of the South

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2, if accepted (would be ineligible for D3 postseason even if still in the ASC)
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 02, 2023, 07:54:39 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2023, 04:39:19 PM
Finlandia announced it will end operations and not enroll students for next school year.

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2023/03/02/finlandia-university-end-operations-not-enroll-students-2023-2024-academic-year/

Two words....

Sad
Ouch

It's always sad to see an institution fail.
Ouch for the C2C as they try to keep as many AQs in play as possible.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2023, 08:42:51 PM
Aww man, RIP Finlandia.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2023, 09:28:15 PM
I'll always cherish my FU Lions hat. Probably keep it for 25 years and sell it for a million dollars at a sports auction.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 06, 2023, 06:52:15 PM
The Membership Committee report is out... https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2023DMemb_Report.pdf

Penn State Brandywine is the only new exploratory member. Carlow has been approved to advance to provisional membership.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2023, 10:46:48 AM
Trinity and Southwestern are leaving the SCAC for the SAA.

https://www.trinity.edu/news/trinity-university-athletics-moving-southern-athletic-association

Sounds like this will happen in 2025-26 for hoops?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2023, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2023, 10:46:48 AM
Trinity and Southwestern are leaving the SCAC for the SAA.

https://www.trinity.edu/news/trinity-university-athletics-moving-southern-athletic-association

Sounds like this will happen in 2025-26 for hoops?

Yes, that's how it reads to me.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 05:17:55 PM
So the CSAC and UEC are merging. Are they becoming a new conference, like the IIAC and the LMC a few years ago, where they lose the AQ for 4 years?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 09, 2023, 05:27:52 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 05:17:55 PM
So the CSAC and UEC are merging. Are they becoming a new conference, like the IIAC and the LMC a few years ago, where they lose the AQ for 4 years?
It'd be only 2 years wouldn't it?
If they were smart they'd spin it as one expanding by accepting some teams then down the line they could make a conference name change.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 07:17:50 PM
Also, Lycoming and Wilkes are joining the Landmark, making it 10 teams. Two divisions? Are they planning on playing an 18-game conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2023, 06:58:58 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 05:17:55 PM
So the CSAC and UEC are merging. Are they becoming a new conference, like the IIAC and the LMC a few years ago, where they lose the AQ for 4 years?

"A few years ago"? That was seventeen years ago.

Face it ... we're both getting old.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on March 10, 2023, 10:00:32 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 07:17:50 PM
Also, Lycoming and Wilkes are joining the Landmark, making it 10 teams. Two divisions? Are they planning on playing an 18-game conference schedule?

18 game conference schedule; going from 11 nonconference games to 7 will put a premium on scheduling for SOS purposes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2023, 10:15:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2023, 06:58:58 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 05:17:55 PM
So the CSAC and UEC are merging. Are they becoming a new conference, like the IIAC and the LMC a few years ago, where they lose the AQ for 4 years?

"A few years ago"? That was seventeen years ago.

Face it ... we're both getting old.

Ugh!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 10, 2023, 10:36:08 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2023, 10:15:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2023, 06:58:58 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2023, 05:17:55 PM
So the CSAC and UEC are merging. Are they becoming a new conference, like the IIAC and the LMC a few years ago, where they lose the AQ for 4 years?

"A few years ago"? That was seventeen years ago.

Face it ... we're both getting old.
Ugh!
I was in college at that time and that was just a few years ago right? ??? :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 13, 2023, 12:30:10 PM
Medaille will be merging into Trocaire College. Current plan is to retain nickname and athletics. It sounds like they will be the Trocaire Maverics beginning in the summer/fall.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/education/medaille-university-announces-merger-with-trocaire-college/article_dca6bb4a-d359-11ed-b462-e365815e0c8f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

It's not clear to me if this is the long-term plan (to retain athletics) or if it's part of retaining the "legacy" Medaille students.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 13, 2023, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 13, 2023, 12:30:10 PM
Medaille will be merging into Trocaire College. Current plan is to retain nickname and athletics. It sounds like they will be the Trocaire Maverics beginning in the summer/fall.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/education/medaille-university-announces-merger-with-trocaire-college/article_dca6bb4a-d359-11ed-b462-e365815e0c8f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

It's not clear to me if this is the long-term plan (to retain athletics) or if it's part of retaining the "legacy" Medaille students.

What I think happens here is because rebranding and buying a bunch of new uniforms is expensive, they will change nothing in 23-24, same logos, Medaille Mavericks. By spring 2024, Trocaire will have decided whether or not athletics is part of its model going forward. Either they unveil a rebrand after that or shut the whole thing down.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 15, 2023, 09:07:37 PM
NVU Johnson leaving the NCAA is now on hold. The president resigned and the interim guy is reevaluating all previously announced plans, including the athletics move and the digitizing/closing of the libraries.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2023, 02:51:43 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 15, 2023, 09:07:37 PM
NVU Johnson leaving the NCAA is now on hold. The president resigned and the interim guy is reevaluating all previously announced plans, including the athletics move and the digitizing/closing of the libraries.

Good. They should've never let German nihilists take charge of their school.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1b73ut.gif)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 12, 2023, 09:06:22 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 13, 2023, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 13, 2023, 12:30:10 PM
Medaille will be merging into Trocaire College. Current plan is to retain nickname and athletics. It sounds like they will be the Trocaire Maverics beginning in the summer/fall.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/education/medaille-university-announces-merger-with-trocaire-college/article_dca6bb4a-d359-11ed-b462-e365815e0c8f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

It's not clear to me if this is the long-term plan (to retain athletics) or if it's part of retaining the "legacy" Medaille students.

What I think happens here is because rebranding and buying a bunch of new uniforms is expensive, they will change nothing in 23-24, same logos, Medaille Mavericks. By spring 2024, Trocaire will have decided whether or not athletics is part of its model going forward. Either they unveil a rebrand after that or shut the whole thing down.

The Medaille-Trocaire merger is off, Trocaire backed out. Medaille is having an emergency board meeting - I've been told they will close.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 15, 2023, 02:56:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 12, 2023, 09:06:22 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 13, 2023, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 13, 2023, 12:30:10 PM
Medaille will be merging into Trocaire College. Current plan is to retain nickname and athletics. It sounds like they will be the Trocaire Maverics beginning in the summer/fall.

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/education/medaille-university-announces-merger-with-trocaire-college/article_dca6bb4a-d359-11ed-b462-e365815e0c8f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

It's not clear to me if this is the long-term plan (to retain athletics) or if it's part of retaining the "legacy" Medaille students.

What I think happens here is because rebranding and buying a bunch of new uniforms is expensive, they will change nothing in 23-24, same logos, Medaille Mavericks. By spring 2024, Trocaire will have decided whether or not athletics is part of its model going forward. Either they unveil a rebrand after that or shut the whole thing down.

The Medaille-Trocaire merger is off, Trocaire backed out. Medaille is having an emergency board meeting - I've been told they will close.

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/education/medaille-university-announces-they-will-be-closing-in-august-trocaire-education/71-6a5839c0-b530-4505-8f09-a21d09feacfe

It is now being reported that Medaille will close in August.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 15, 2023, 05:12:59 PM

Ozarks and CTX to the SCAC in 24-25.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 16, 2023, 04:00:47 PM
Updating this. Check me if I missed any of the news.

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2, if accepted (would be ineligible for D3 postseason even if still in the ASC)
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 01, 2023, 12:05:18 PM
Added the Berea news.

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2, if accepted (would be ineligible for D3 postseason even if still in the ASC)
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 01, 2023, 12:39:41 PM
Berea moving to the HCAC is a good pick up for the HCAC and a big hit to the CCS from a women's hoops perspective.

From a men's basketball perspective, it makes the conference's ability to get an automatic bid more tenuous, dropping to just six members. Does that cause any of the other members to go back to the USA South or can they add someone else?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM
I wonder with the Berea announcement, could Asbury soon be joining as well to make it an even 12?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM
I wonder with the Berea announcement, could Asbury soon be joining as well to make it an even 12?

That was my first thought as well, particularly since it adds another Kentucky school to the HCAC.

An even dozen would allow the HCAC to realign itself into two balanced divisions.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2023, 01:01:54 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM
I wonder with the Berea announcement, could Asbury soon be joining as well to make it an even 12?

That was my first thought as well, particularly since it adds another Kentucky school to the HCAC.

An even dozen would allow the HCAC to realign itself into two balanced divisions.
I also thought about travel concerns for Asbury in the HCAC versus the CCS. Wilmore KY to Montgomery AL (484 miles) or to Macon GA (464 miles) is a long drive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2023, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 01, 2023, 12:39:41 PM
Berea moving to the HCAC is a good pick up for the HCAC and a big hit to the CCS from a women's hoops perspective.

From a men's basketball perspective, it makes the conference's ability to get an automatic bid more tenuous, dropping to just six members. Does that cause any of the other members to go back to the USA South or can they add someone else?

Does Bob Jones University look more valuable to the CCS now?

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on June 02, 2023, 01:44:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM
I wonder with the Berea announcement, could Asbury soon be joining as well to make it an even 12?

That was my first thought as well, particularly since it adds another Kentucky school to the HCAC.

An even dozen would allow the HCAC to realign itself into two balanced divisions.

A couple things jump out to me here.

If you're Defiance you'd be looking at a situation in which your conference has expanded in/around/beyond what was already your longest trip. If it comes to it, maybe a North/South split of divisions keeps this from being a major concern.

If you're Centre, you're looking at a situation where every other Lexington, KY area DIII is in the HCAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2023, 09:24:35 PM
Quote from: ziggy on June 02, 2023, 01:44:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM
I wonder with the Berea announcement, could Asbury soon be joining as well to make it an even 12?

That was my first thought as well, particularly since it adds another Kentucky school to the HCAC.

An even dozen would allow the HCAC to realign itself into two balanced divisions.

A couple things jump out to me here.

If you're Defiance you'd be looking at a situation in which your conference has expanded in/around/beyond what was already your longest trip. If it comes to it, maybe a North/South split of divisions keeps this from being a major concern.

If you're Centre, you're looking at a situation where every other Lexington, KY area DIII is in the HCAC.
REspectfully, my first impression is that Centre sees its mission and vision more in line with the SAA and not the HCAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on June 03, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2023, 09:24:35 PM
Quote from: ziggy on June 02, 2023, 01:44:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 01, 2023, 05:14:14 PM
I wonder with the Berea announcement, could Asbury soon be joining as well to make it an even 12?

That was my first thought as well, particularly since it adds another Kentucky school to the HCAC.

An even dozen would allow the HCAC to realign itself into two balanced divisions.

A couple things jump out to me here.

If you're Defiance you'd be looking at a situation in which your conference has expanded in/around/beyond what was already your longest trip. If it comes to it, maybe a North/South split of divisions keeps this from being a major concern.

If you're Centre, you're looking at a situation where every other Lexington, KY area DIII is in the HCAC.
REspectfully, my first impression is that Centre sees its mission and vision more in line with the SAA and not the HCAC.

For sure conference membership can be about more than geography and I will admit ignorance on what those might be in a lot of cases. Some level of proximity is a pretty good first pass in most cases, though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 04, 2023, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

So are members from one conference just joining members of the other conference? How are they able to keep their AQ? I remember when the IIAC combined with the LMC, they had to wait for their AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 12:38:44 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 04, 2023, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

So are members from one conference just joining members of the other conference? How are they able to keep their AQ? I remember when the IIAC combined with the LMC, they had to wait for their AQ.

We don't have the details yet, but I imagine they wouldn't do it if they had to wait two years. I'm sure they'll just keep one conference and maybe change the name.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WLCALUM83 on June 04, 2023, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 04, 2023, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

So are members from one conference just joining members of the other conference? How are they able to keep their AQ? I remember when the IIAC combined with the LMC, they had to wait for their AQ.

Wasn't that the IBFC combining with the LMC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 04, 2023, 03:55:13 PM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on June 04, 2023, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 04, 2023, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

So are members from one conference just joining members of the other conference? How are they able to keep their AQ? I remember when the IIAC combined with the LMC, they had to wait for their AQ.

Wasn't that the IBFC combining with the LMC?

No, it was the IIAC and the LMC. The IBFC was the football-only precursor to the NACC in that it combined members of the IIAC and LMC under one roof. That's because plenty of IIAC and LMC schools didn't field football programs, thus making both leagues unable to reach the seven-member minimum for an AQ. Hence, the decision to combine forces to form a football-only league. It was only later that the two leagues decided to go all-in with the rest of their sports and merge to form the NACC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 04, 2023, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

Soccer and volleyball schedules for this fall show the conferences maintaining separate schedules and their tournament winners playing each other.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 04, 2023, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 04, 2023, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

So are members from one conference just joining members of the other conference? How are they able to keep their AQ? I remember when the IIAC combined with the LMC, they had to wait for their AQ.



If I recall, neither conference wanted to bring its baggage forward (one conference merging into the other). Rather, those schools wanted a fresh start in a brand new conference. (Corrections appreciated!)

From the NACC website...

Quote
The Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference began its first season of competition in the fall of 2006, then known as the Northern Athletics Conference. The conference consists4782 of 14 private colleges and universities from the shared-border states of Illinois and Wisconsin, all of which are NCAA Division III members.

The members of the NACC include Alverno College, Aurora University, Benedictine University, Concordia University Chicago, Concordia University Wisconsin, Dominican University, Edgewood College, Illinois Institute of Technology, Lakeland University, Marian University, Milwaukee School of Engineering, Rockford University, St. Norbert College and Wisconsin Lutheran College.

Additionally, Mount Mary University maintains affiliate membership in women's cross country, Eureka College maintains affiliate membership in football, and Beloit College is an affiliate member in men's and women's lacrosse.

The NACC sponsors championships in 21 sports. Men's championships include baseball, basketball, cross country, football, golf, lacrosse, soccer, tennis, indoor track & field, outdoor track & field and volleyball. Women's championships are sponsored in basketball, cross country, golf, lacrosse, soccer, softball, tennis, indoor track & field, outdoor track & field and volleyball.

The league's charter members included Alverno, Aurora, Benedictine, Concordia Chicago, Concordia Wisconsin, Dominican, Edgewood, Lakeland, Maranatha Baptist Bible College (now Maranatha Baptist University), Marian, Rockford and Wisconsin Lutheran. The charter members shared traditional rivalries dating back to their predecessor conferences, the Lake Michigan Conference and the Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2023, 03:38:28 PM
Yeah, my bad. I meant NIIC, not IIAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 06, 2023, 12:22:45 AM
The NACC had to go through the waiting period in most sports, but in football it inherited the IBFC's bid without a waiting period.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 06, 2023, 11:37:17 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 04, 2023, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 04, 2023, 08:10:31 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
Does the CSAC/UEC conference merger have an AQ?

I don't believe it's even official yet, but they'll retain an AQ when it happens.

So are members from one conference just joining members of the other conference? How are they able to keep their AQ? I remember when the IIAC combined with the LMC, they had to wait for their AQ.

That's because they did it poorly.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 06, 2023, 12:18:52 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2023, 03:38:28 PM
Yeah, my bad. I meant NIIC, not IIAC.

Me too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on June 08, 2023, 01:24:38 PM
I'm not sure which user of this forum is in charge of the updates when it comes to the conference realignment changes come this fall (as of the 2023-24 school year). But would it be fair to announce that the NECC will no longer be an athletic conference that sponsor multiple sports (due to the last remaining member will leave for another regional-based conference), while in the process, that said conference would become a single sport-only conference (making reference to men's volleyball)?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2023, 12:26:35 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on June 08, 2023, 01:24:38 PM
I'm not sure which user of this forum is in charge of the updates when it comes to the conference realignment changes come this fall (as of the 2023-24 school year). But would it be fair to announce that the NECC will no longer be an athletic conference that sponsor multiple sports (due to the last remaining member will leave for another regional-based conference), while in the process, that said conference would become a single sport-only conference (making reference to men's volleyball)?

It would be very fair to announce that, yes.

All users are welcome to make updates or clarifications, so feel free!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2023, 12:28:02 PM
Added record of NECC going away, added number of expected Pool A, B, C bids to the bottom of each year.

Provisional Pipeline for 2022-23
Full membership fall 2022: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
2nd year provisional members: Asbury, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
Exploratory: Carlow

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the CSAC/UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2, if accepted (would be ineligible for D3 postseason even if still in the ASC)
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
CSAC (Bryn Athyn, Cairn, Clarks Summit, Keystone, Notre Dame (MD), Rosemont, St. Elizabeth, Valley Forge, Wilson, plus Cedar Crest in women's sports) and UEC (Gallaudet, Lancaster Bible, Penn College, Penn State Abington, Penn State Berks, Penn State Harrisburg, St. Mary's (MD)) merge (they retain one Pool A bid from the two conferences, other Pool A goes away).
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 22, 2023, 10:15:33 AM
Pratt to join the Atlantic East in 2024. https://atlanticeast.com/news/2023/6/22/general-pratt-institute-to-join-the-atlantic-east-in-2024-25.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 22, 2023, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on June 22, 2023, 10:15:33 AM
Pratt to join the Atlantic East in 2024. https://atlanticeast.com/news/2023/6/22/general-pratt-institute-to-join-the-atlantic-east-in-2024-25.aspx

That would drop C2C men's basketball to 5 teams and into Pool B for the 2026-27 season. Any women's sports AQs they had are all safe because Mount Mary exists; volleyball would be dropping to 5 except for the fact Warren Wilson is adding VB and will directly replace Pratt when they go. The only other men's sports Pratt has in the C2C are soccer (AQ safe) and tennis (didn't have an AQ to begin with).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 22, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
The chart above has been updated with the Pratt move.

Would the C2C consider adding Bob Jones to stabilize the numbers?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 22, 2023, 01:09:09 PM
The conference formed by the 17-member UEC/CSAC merger will retain the UEC name.
https://gounitedeast.com/news/2023/6/22/baseball-csac-united-east-finalize-conference-merger.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on June 22, 2023, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 22, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
The chart above has been updated with the Pratt move.

Would the C2C consider adding Bob Jones to stabilize the numbers?

Feels like something that would have happened already if it was going to, though maybe the situation on both sides reaches a point it becomes a necessary last resort.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 22, 2023, 02:05:33 PM

June Membership Committee meeting wraps up today, so we should get confirmation on placement of schools for next year any time now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 22, 2023, 02:11:54 PM

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2, if accepted (would be ineligible for D3 postseason even if still in the ASC)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 22, 2023, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: ziggy on June 22, 2023, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 22, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
The chart above has been updated with the Pratt move.

Would the C2C consider adding Bob Jones to stabilize the numbers?

Feels like something that would have happened already if it was going to, though maybe the situation on both sides reaches a point it becomes a necessary last resort.
From a "Mission/Vision" perspective, Bob Jones seems most likely to fit in the CCS.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 22, 2023, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 22, 2023, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: ziggy on June 22, 2023, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 22, 2023, 11:41:53 AM
The chart above has been updated with the Pratt move.

Would the C2C consider adding Bob Jones to stabilize the numbers?

Feels like something that would have happened already if it was going to, though maybe the situation on both sides reaches a point it becomes a necessary last resort.
From a "Mission/Vision" perspective, Bob Jones seems most likely to fit in the CCS.

From what I understand, Bob Jones has some scheduling limitations that many conferences are unwilling to work around.  There are a lot of religious commitments required of students and the school does not make exceptions for athletes to miss.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2023, 08:13:13 AM
We've learned that Cabrini will be closing after the upcoming 2023-24 academic year:

https://d3sports.com/notables/2023/06/cabrini-university-to-be-sold
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on June 23, 2023, 08:43:35 AM
Division III Athletic Directors should change their job title to "Conference Affiliation Determination Director". They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure this out.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 23, 2023, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on June 23, 2023, 08:43:35 AM
Division III Athletic Directors should change their job title to "Conference Affiliation Determination Director". They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure this out.

I'm sure that nobody is happier than my alma mater's AD about the fact that our conference has kept a core membership of the same eight schools (including my alma mater) intact for 57 years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on June 23, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2023, 08:13:13 AM
We've learned that Cabrini will be closing after the upcoming 2023-24 academic year:

https://d3sports.com/notables/2023/06/cabrini-university-to-be-sold

Thanks to this website and these boards I first started following D3 sports somewhat closely about 20 years ago. It's been fun and interesting, even when the news is about the closure of an institution. It seems to me that the number of D3 institutions that have closed, will be closing, or are in danger of closing (e.g. Birmingham Southern, which has had to appeal to the Alabama legislature for a loan to help it survive) has grown considerably in the past five to six years. Is that an accurate observation? (Certainly this wasn't a topic of conversation 10-15 years ago.) If so, are there factors in our society at large that are contributing to this? I think someone mentioned declining birth rates since 2008 which will affect enrollment nationwide. Are there other factors? Has anyone been tracking the closures and when they have been occurring that could confirm or refute my sense that this is a growing phenomenon?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on June 23, 2023, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 23, 2023, 10:53:11 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on June 23, 2023, 08:43:35 AM
Division III Athletic Directors should change their job title to "Conference Affiliation Determination Director". They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure this out.

I'm sure that nobody is happier than my alma mater's AD about the fact that our conference has kept a core membership of the same eight schools (including my alma mater) intact for 57 years.

Stability is a happy place to be! Wouldn't it be nice to focus on Athletics!? CNU was a member of the Dixie/USA South conference for 41 years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FiredCoachesPod on June 23, 2023, 04:41:26 PM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on June 23, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 23, 2023, 08:13:13 AM
We've learned that Cabrini will be closing after the upcoming 2023-24 academic year:

https://d3sports.com/notables/2023/06/cabrini-university-to-be-sold

Thanks to this website and these boards I first started following D3 sports somewhat closely about 20 years ago. It's been fun and interesting, even when the news is about the closure of an institution. It seems to me that the number of D3 institutions that have closed, will be closing, or are in danger of closing (e.g. Birmingham Southern, which has had to appeal to the Alabama legislature for a loan to help it survive) has grown considerably in the past five to six years. Is that an accurate observation? (Certainly this wasn't a topic of conversation 10-15 years ago.) If so, are there factors in our society at large that are contributing to this? I think someone mentioned declining birth rates since 2008 which will affect enrollment nationwide. Are there other factors? Has anyone been tracking the closures and when they have been occurring that could confirm or refute my sense that this is a growing phenomenon?

This is going to be the trend for the next 3-5 years. Small tuition dependent schools are gonna have tough time keeping doors open. Low enrollment. No money. Declining populations of people. Loan debt. Is a college degree really worth it? Facilities that are outdated.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 23, 2023, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on June 23, 2023, 02:24:12 PM
Thanks to this website and these boards I first started following D3 sports somewhat closely about 20 years ago. It's been fun and interesting, even when the news is about the closure of an institution. It seems to me that the number of D3 institutions that have closed, will be closing, or are in danger of closing (e.g. Birmingham Southern, which has had to appeal to the Alabama legislature for a loan to help it survive) has grown considerably in the past five to six years. Is that an accurate observation? (Certainly this wasn't a topic of conversation 10-15 years ago.) If so, are there factors in our society at large that are contributing to this? I think someone mentioned declining birth rates since 2008 which will affect enrollment nationwide. Are there other factors? Has anyone been tracking the closures and when they have been occurring that could confirm or refute my sense that this is a growing phenomenon?

Quote from: washingtonwiz99 on June 23, 2023, 04:41:26 PM
This is going to be the trend for the next 3-5 years. Small tuition dependent schools are gonna have tough time keeping doors open. Low enrollment. No money. Declining populations of people. Loan debt. Is a college degree really worth it? Facilities that are outdated.

Demographics are the biggest problem, though this will last longer than 3-5 years.  There are other challenges.  For example, the decline in the part-time, adult, professional education market.  For many small colleges, those were big revenue generators.

Or the change in enrollment strategy the the institutions who are able to grow their populations.  For the most part, every institution that can increase their enrollment (i.e. big universities) is doing so to the detriment of smaller colleges and universities.

Other challenges vary from institution to institution and region to region.

But yes, definitely an uptick over the last few years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:16:59 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 22, 2023, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on June 22, 2023, 10:15:33 AM
Pratt to join the Atlantic East in 2024. https://atlanticeast.com/news/2023/6/22/general-pratt-institute-to-join-the-atlantic-east-in-2024-25.aspx

That would drop C2C men's basketball to 5 teams and into Pool B for the 2026-27 season. Any women's sports AQs they had are all safe because Mount Mary exists; volleyball would be dropping to 5 except for the fact Warren Wilson is adding VB and will directly replace Pratt when they go. The only other men's sports Pratt has in the C2C are soccer (AQ safe) and tennis (didn't have an AQ to begin with).

I think C2C will be entering their 2-year grace period this next season in 2023-24 for MBB.

Finlandia has closed and Warren Wilson will not be a full member until 2024-25. I believe they will be at 5 full members in 2023-24 and 5 again in 2024-25 (add Warren Wilson, lose Pratt). If they don't add another they'll lose their Pool A in 2025-26.

There could be something I'm not considering here.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
Any chance we lose a tournament bid and go down to a 63-team tournament in 2023-24? By my count we'll be at 412 teams (down one from 413) and, if I recall, the access ratio is 6.5.

412/6.5 = 63.38
413/6.5 = 63.54

Do they round down?

My guess is we stay at 64 since the chatter, even in D3, is about expanding tournament field access.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 26, 2023, 04:22:05 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:16:59 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 22, 2023, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on June 22, 2023, 10:15:33 AM
Pratt to join the Atlantic East in 2024. https://atlanticeast.com/news/2023/6/22/general-pratt-institute-to-join-the-atlantic-east-in-2024-25.aspx

That would drop C2C men's basketball to 5 teams and into Pool B for the 2026-27 season. Any women's sports AQs they had are all safe because Mount Mary exists; volleyball would be dropping to 5 except for the fact Warren Wilson is adding VB and will directly replace Pratt when they go. The only other men's sports Pratt has in the C2C are soccer (AQ safe) and tennis (didn't have an AQ to begin with).

I think C2C will be entering their 2-year grace period this next season in 2023-24 for MBB.

Finlandia has closed and Warren Wilson will not be a full member until 2024-25. I believe they will be at 5 full members in 2023-24 and 5 again in 2024-25 (add Warren Wilson, lose Pratt). If they don't add another they'll lose their Pool A in 2025-26.

There could be something I'm not considering here.

Don't year-3 provisional members count towards the minimum, or am I misremembering?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 26, 2023, 08:19:40 PM
Year 3 schools do count. I'm not sure how they count single sex schools, though, when it comes to conference members.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 26, 2023, 09:41:48 PM
Ok, thanks. I know year 3 schools count for record and SOS for opponents but didn't know if they counted towards conference numbers. Makes sense.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 27, 2023, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
Any chance we lose a tournament bid and go down to a 63-team tournament in 2023-24? By my count we'll be at 412 teams (down one from 413) and, if I recall, the access ratio is 6.5.

412/6.5 = 63.38
413/6.5 = 63.54

Do they round down?

My guess is we stay at 64 since the chatter, even in D3, is about expanding tournament field access.

Scratch this. My count was missing Bob Jones becoming a full member, so I now have us staying at 413 tournament-eligible members in 2023-24.

MBB loses Sul Ross State, Finlandia, Cazenovia
MBB gains Notre Dame (MD), Bob Jones, MUW
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 27, 2023, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 27, 2023, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
Any chance we lose a tournament bid and go down to a 63-team tournament in 2023-24? By my count we'll be at 412 teams (down one from 413) and, if I recall, the access ratio is 6.5.

412/6.5 = 63.38
413/6.5 = 63.54

Do they round down?

My guess is we stay at 64 since the chatter, even in D3, is about expanding tournament field access.

Scratch this. My count was missing Bob Jones becoming a full member, so I now have us staying at 413 tournament-eligible members in 2023-24.

MBB loses Sul Ross State, Finlandia, Cazenovia
MBB gains Notre Dame (MD), Bob Jones, MUW
Also losing Medaille and gaining (assuming accepted for year 3) Asbury and Warren Wilson
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 28, 2023, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 27, 2023, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 27, 2023, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
Any chance we lose a tournament bid and go down to a 63-team tournament in 2023-24? By my count we'll be at 412 teams (down one from 413) and, if I recall, the access ratio is 6.5.

412/6.5 = 63.38
413/6.5 = 63.54

Do they round down?

My guess is we stay at 64 since the chatter, even in D3, is about expanding tournament field access.

Scratch this. My count was missing Bob Jones becoming a full member, so I now have us staying at 413 tournament-eligible members in 2023-24.

MBB loses Sul Ross State, Finlandia, Cazenovia
MBB gains Notre Dame (MD), Bob Jones, MUW
Also losing Medaille and gaining (assuming accepted for year 3) Asbury and Warren Wilson

Correct on Medaille! Back down to 412 tournament-eligible teams.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 28, 2023, 07:33:12 PM
Scrap Bob Jones, they're not going forward with their D3 reclassification anymore.

...and nothing of value was lost.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 28, 2023, 09:35:37 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 28, 2023, 07:33:12 PM
Scrap Bob Jones, they're not going forward with their D3 reclassification anymore.

...and nothing of value was lost.
Just guessing, but I have always thought that NCCAA was their best option.
This still leaves the men in the CCS in a tight spot.

I wonder if William Carey in Hattiesburg MS has ever thought about D-3. They could be a travel partner for Belhaven. No football but they would help with everything else.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 29, 2023, 10:48:29 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 28, 2023, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 27, 2023, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 27, 2023, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 25, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
Any chance we lose a tournament bid and go down to a 63-team tournament in 2023-24? By my count we'll be at 412 teams (down one from 413) and, if I recall, the access ratio is 6.5.

412/6.5 = 63.38
413/6.5 = 63.54

Do they round down?

My guess is we stay at 64 since the chatter, even in D3, is about expanding tournament field access.

Scratch this. My count was missing Bob Jones becoming a full member, so I now have us staying at 413 tournament-eligible members in 2023-24.

MBB loses Sul Ross State, Finlandia, Cazenovia
MBB gains Notre Dame (MD), Bob Jones, MUW
Also losing Medaille and gaining (assuming accepted for year 3) Asbury and Warren Wilson

Correct on Medaille! Back down to 412 tournament-eligible teams.

411 now with Bob Jones out. That's 63.23 bids.

I just went back and checked the section in the Division III Manual:

"In team sports, overall bracket sizes shall be established based on an approximate access ratio of 1:6.5."

I'm betting them keeping us at 64 bids but something to keep an eye on in future seasons with school closures coming. At 409 we'd drop below 63 bids. But still, it sounds like maybe they have some wiggle room on tournament field size with the word approximate in there.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 29, 2023, 10:58:06 AM
We were told they would only add teams to the tournament in groups of two -- hopefully they would do the same in removing them and we wouldn't lose any until we're down to 62.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 29, 2023, 11:13:55 AM
The G-League has a team, the Ignite, that are just made up of random players to prepare them for the next level. Maybe D3 hoops can just create a team or two to make sure we don't drop down to 62 teams. Make that happen, Pat!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 29, 2023, 11:25:16 AM
Added Cabrini closure, removed Bob Jones from the pipeline.

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on June 29, 2023, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 29, 2023, 10:58:06 AM
We were told they would only add teams to the tournament in groups of two -- hopefully they would do the same in removing them and we wouldn't lose any until we're down to 62.

At an access ratio of 1:6.5, the number hits exactly 62 bids at 403 members. Hopefully anything above that can keep the 64-team field.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 12, 2023, 10:50:29 AM
Anyone have a contact in the membership committee? They have not posted the report or the new provisional chart after last month's meeting.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 12, 2023, 10:55:57 AM
That has to be approved by the management council and rubber-stamped by the presidents council before it's official ... I think.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 12, 2023, 12:56:51 PM
In other NCAA committee news, in June the championships committee approved the ASC's request to let Sul Ross State count as a D3 opponent in 2023–24 for ranking/selection purposes. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2023D3CC_JunReport.pdf
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 12, 2023, 01:56:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 12, 2023, 10:55:57 AM
That has to be approved by the management council and rubber-stamped by the presidents council before it's official ... I think.

Quote from: Inkblot on July 12, 2023, 12:56:51 PM
In other NCAA committee news, in June the championships committee approved the ASC's request to let Sul Ross State count as a D3 opponent in 2023–24 for ranking/selection purposes. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2023D3CC_JunReport.pdf

Thank you both! This thread is my most valuable resource as I try to keep my sheets updated to make SOS, etc. as accurate as possible every year!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 14, 2023, 07:56:31 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on July 12, 2023, 12:56:51 PM
In other NCAA committee news, in June the championships committee approved the ASC's request to let Sul Ross State count as a D3 opponent in 2023–24 for ranking/selection purposes. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2023D3CC_JunReport.pdf

Sul Ross State's D2 provisional status has been officially approved.

https://srlobos.com/news/2023/7/13/general-its-official-sul-ross-state-has-been-approved-for-competition-in-ncaa-division-ii.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 20, 2023, 10:59:15 AM
So from what I understand, the CSAC and the UEC aren't combining, the CSAC teams are just joining the UEC and the expanded UEC is keeping their AQ, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on July 20, 2023, 11:37:28 AM
UT-Dallas has announced a move to Division II. Official application to come in February 2024 with competition to start in Fall 2025.
https://utdcomets.com/news/2023/7/19/baseball-ut-dallas-accepts-invitation-to-join-lone-star-conference.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 20, 2023, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: ziggy on July 20, 2023, 11:37:28 AM
UT-Dallas has announced a move to Division II. Official application to come in February 2024 with competition to start in Fall 2025.
https://utdcomets.com/news/2023/7/19/baseball-ut-dallas-accepts-invitation-to-join-lone-star-conference.aspx

The way I read it:
2025-26 is the start of competition in the Lone Star Conference (as a year-2 provisional).
2024-25 will be the start of their D2 provisional process (assuming application, acceptance, etc.). If they follow the Sul Ross path, they'll have a waiver to "count" for D3 competition in this year as well (and probably essentially play an ASC schedule) as long as they keep the program operating under D3 rules for the first year of the process.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 20, 2023, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 20, 2023, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: ziggy on July 20, 2023, 11:37:28 AM
UT-Dallas has announced a move to Division II. Official application to come in February 2024 with competition to start in Fall 2025.
https://utdcomets.com/news/2023/7/19/baseball-ut-dallas-accepts-invitation-to-join-lone-star-conference.aspx

The way I read it:
2025-26 is the start of competition in the Lone Star Conference (as a year-2 provisional).
2024-25 will be the start of their D2 provisional process (assuming application, acceptance, etc.). If they follow the Sul Ross path, they'll have a waiver to "count" for D3 competition in this year as well (and probably essentially play an ASC schedule) as long as they keep the program operating under D3 rules for the first year of the process.

I suspect the rest of the ASC will have something figured out before they need a 24-25 waiver.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jmcozenlaw on July 20, 2023, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on June 28, 2023, 07:33:12 PM
Scrap Bob Jones, they're not going forward with their D3 reclassification anymore.

...and nothing of value was lost.

For the Bob Jones student athletes (the entire school for that matter)...........given Who they put #1 in their daily lives, everything worth value is gained. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 21, 2023, 09:00:02 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 20, 2023, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 20, 2023, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: ziggy on July 20, 2023, 11:37:28 AM
UT-Dallas has announced a move to Division II. Official application to come in February 2024 with competition to start in Fall 2025.
https://utdcomets.com/news/2023/7/19/baseball-ut-dallas-accepts-invitation-to-join-lone-star-conference.aspx

The way I read it:
2025-26 is the start of competition in the Lone Star Conference (as a year-2 provisional).
2024-25 will be the start of their D2 provisional process (assuming application, acceptance, etc.). If they follow the Sul Ross path, they'll have a waiver to "count" for D3 competition in this year as well (and probably essentially play an ASC schedule) as long as they keep the program operating under D3 rules for the first year of the process.

I suspect the rest of the ASC will have something figured out before they need a 24-25 waiver.

I'll admit ignorance to many of the dynamics at play surrounding conference affiliation; what options do you think they have?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 22, 2023, 01:05:55 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 21, 2023, 09:00:02 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 20, 2023, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 20, 2023, 12:30:56 PM
Quote from: ziggy on July 20, 2023, 11:37:28 AM
UT-Dallas has announced a move to Division II. Official application to come in February 2024 with competition to start in Fall 2025.
https://utdcomets.com/news/2023/7/19/baseball-ut-dallas-accepts-invitation-to-join-lone-star-conference.aspx

The way I read it:
2025-26 is the start of competition in the Lone Star Conference (as a year-2 provisional).
2024-25 will be the start of their D2 provisional process (assuming application, acceptance, etc.). If they follow the Sul Ross path, they'll have a waiver to "count" for D3 competition in this year as well (and probably essentially play an ASC schedule) as long as they keep the program operating under D3 rules for the first year of the process.

I suspect the rest of the ASC will have something figured out before they need a 24-25 waiver.

I'll admit ignorance to many of the dynamics at play surrounding conference affiliation; what options do you think they have?

I imagine there's a lot of options, maybe no great ones. I just don't think they're going to wait too long to figure it out.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 23, 2023, 10:21:47 AM
The Red River Conference, which is the NAIA league that occupies the same geographic footprint as the ASC, is a grab-bag of institutions: five or six branch campuses of large state universities; several tiny private HBCUs; a medium-sized Catholic university; a couple of very conservative evangelical schools; and so on. Some of them might be disposed to joining the ASC, although most of them would have to add a few sports in order to qualify for D3 membership (it's fortunate that few of them have cross-country or track & field, relatively inexpensive sports for budgetary purposes that also have the virtue of attracting fairly large numbers of student-athletes).

The problem from a football perspective is that I don't think any of the RRC schools, regardless of size or affiliation, have football programs. Unless the ASC can entice an NCAA scholie school that has football to move to D3, or it expands its already-large footprint, the ASC would either have to persuade current or future members to add football or drop the AQ for that sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 23, 2023, 06:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 23, 2023, 10:21:47 AM
The Red River Conference, which is the NAIA league that occupies the same geographic footprint as the ASC, is a grab-bag of institutions: five or six branch campuses of large state universities; several tiny private HBCUs; a medium-sized Catholic university; a couple of very conservative evangelical schools; and so on. Some of them might be disposed to joining the ASC, although most of them would have to add a few sports in order to qualify for D3 membership (it's fortunate that few of them have cross-country or track & field, relatively inexpensive sports for budgetary purposes that also have the virtue of attracting fairly large numbers of student-athletes).

The problem from a football perspective is that I don't think any of the RRC schools, regardless of size or affiliation, have football programs. Unless the ASC can entice an NCAA scholie school that has football to move to D3, or it expands its already-large footprint, the ASC would either have to persuade current or future members to add football or drop the AQ for that sport.
Would a school really want to add football for a conference that has two perennial Top-10 programs?

I am pessimistic. I just want LeTU, HPU and ETBU to land on their feet.

I have posted elsewhere that Centenary is a member of the Associated Colleges of the South.

https://www.acsouth.edu/

Might the SAA add Centenary and admit ETBU as a travel partner?  That would give 12 teams and divisional play might be an option.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 23, 2023, 06:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 23, 2023, 10:21:47 AM
The Red River Conference, which is the NAIA league that occupies the same geographic footprint as the ASC, is a grab-bag of institutions: five or six branch campuses of large state universities; several tiny private HBCUs; a medium-sized Catholic university; a couple of very conservative evangelical schools; and so on. Some of them might be disposed to joining the ASC, although most of them would have to add a few sports in order to qualify for D3 membership (it's fortunate that few of them have cross-country or track & field, relatively inexpensive sports for budgetary purposes that also have the virtue of attracting fairly large numbers of student-athletes).

The problem from a football perspective is that I don't think any of the RRC schools, regardless of size or affiliation, have football programs. Unless the ASC can entice an NCAA scholie school that has football to move to D3, or it expands its already-large footprint, the ASC would either have to persuade current or future members to add football or drop the AQ for that sport.

Louisiana Christian, Texas College, and North American have football teams in the Sooner Athletic Conference. North American is brand new to NAIA (they just had or are about to have their first year of full membership) and Louisiana Christian was former ASC member Louisiana College.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 24, 2023, 10:16:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 23, 2023, 06:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 23, 2023, 10:21:47 AM
The Red River Conference, which is the NAIA league that occupies the same geographic footprint as the ASC, is a grab-bag of institutions: five or six branch campuses of large state universities; several tiny private HBCUs; a medium-sized Catholic university; a couple of very conservative evangelical schools; and so on. Some of them might be disposed to joining the ASC, although most of them would have to add a few sports in order to qualify for D3 membership (it's fortunate that few of them have cross-country or track & field, relatively inexpensive sports for budgetary purposes that also have the virtue of attracting fairly large numbers of student-athletes).

The problem from a football perspective is that I don't think any of the RRC schools, regardless of size or affiliation, have football programs. Unless the ASC can entice an NCAA scholie school that has football to move to D3, or it expands its already-large footprint, the ASC would either have to persuade current or future members to add football or drop the AQ for that sport.
Would a school really want to add football for a conference that has two perennial Top-10 programs?

It's Texas, Ralph, the football capital of the universe. I always figured that down there you folks feel that you can't hold up your heads in polite society if your college doesn't have a football team. ;)

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on July 23, 2023, 06:28:05 PM
Louisiana Christian, Texas College, and North American have football teams in the Sooner Athletic Conference. North American is brand new to NAIA (they just had or are about to have their first year of full membership) and Louisiana Christian was former ASC member Louisiana College.

Yes, I saw that when I looked at the RRC. Texas College is a tiny and severely underfunded HBCU, so you have to wonder about its continued viability at this point. And Louisiana Christian has already turned its back on D3. North American University is the only realistic football-playing candidate there.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 24, 2023, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 24, 2023, 10:16:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 23, 2023, 06:20:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 23, 2023, 10:21:47 AM
The Red River Conference, which is the NAIA league that occupies the same geographic footprint as the ASC, is a grab-bag of institutions: five or six branch campuses of large state universities; several tiny private HBCUs; a medium-sized Catholic university; a couple of very conservative evangelical schools; and so on. Some of them might be disposed to joining the ASC, although most of them would have to add a few sports in order to qualify for D3 membership (it's fortunate that few of them have cross-country or track & field, relatively inexpensive sports for budgetary purposes that also have the virtue of attracting fairly large numbers of student-athletes).

The problem from a football perspective is that I don't think any of the RRC schools, regardless of size or affiliation, have football programs. Unless the ASC can entice an NCAA scholie school that has football to move to D3, or it expands its already-large footprint, the ASC would either have to persuade current or future members to add football or drop the AQ for that sport.
Would a school really want to add football for a conference that has two perennial Top-10 programs?

It's Texas, Ralph, the football capital of the universe. I always figured that down there you folks feel that you can't hold up your heads in polite society if your college doesn't have a football team. ;)

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on July 23, 2023, 06:28:05 PM
Louisiana Christian, Texas College, and North American have football teams in the Sooner Athletic Conference. North American is brand new to NAIA (they just had or are about to have their first year of full membership) and Louisiana Christian was former ASC member Louisiana College.

Yes, I saw that when I looked at the RRC. Texas College is a tiny and severely underfunded HBCU, so you have to wonder about its continued viability at this point. And Louisiana Christian has already turned its back on D3. North American University is the only realistic football-playing candidate there.
...but it was only when Centenary and Schreiner did not have to play UMHB and possibly HSU that they decided to resume football. And then they would be competing in an SCAC that one D3football expert compared to the UMAC in football prowess.

As for North American University, I understand that they declined the offer to join the ASC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on July 24, 2023, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 24, 2023, 10:16:31 AM
Texas College is a tiny and severely underfunded HBCU, so you have to wonder about its continued viability at this point.

I had a theory that congressional intervention would provide the buffer necessary to keep all historically black colleges and universities open, but Lincoln College proved me wrong.

I hope the Texas College president gets to Washington DC quite frequently.

As an aside, I was looking at the footprints of a few D3 conferences and I have to think that the SCAC has moved more geographically as the membership changed than any other conference.  Or at least it is in the running.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 24, 2023, 02:53:59 PM
North American isn't regionally accredited, and as a result isn't even a full NAIA member.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 26, 2023, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 12, 2023, 10:50:29 AM
Anyone have a contact in the membership committee? They have not posted the report or the new provisional chart after last month's meeting.

The June Membership Committee report has been posted:
Provisional advancement seems to be as expected.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Jun2023D3Memb_Report.pdf
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 26, 2023, 12:35:59 PM
Generally the schools listed here on probation whose self-assessment was not accepted -- not surprising. I am amazed how some of these schools manage to maintain their D-III membership.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 26, 2023, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 26, 2023, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 12, 2023, 10:50:29 AM
Anyone have a contact in the membership committee? They have not posted the report or the new provisional chart after last month's meeting.

The June Membership Committee report has been posted:
Provisional advancement seems to be as expected.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Jun2023D3Memb_Report.pdf

From the report...

Division III active membership.
a. Probation/Restricted status summary. The committee reviewed the current list of
institutions on probation and restricted status. For the 2022-23 academic year, 16
institutions remain in the probationary period and one institution on restricted
status.

b. Probation/Restricted Status Institutions - Athletics Program Assessment Reviews.
The committee reviewed and took action on the athletics program assessments from
the following institutions, which they were required to complete during the first
year of their probationary period or restricted status:

(1) Keystone College (probation) – accepted;

(2) Knox College (probation) – accepted;

(3) Maranatha Baptist University (probation) – The committee determined the
program assessment was inadequate and required the institution to
resubmit the program assessment by August 1, 2023;

(4) Medgar Evers College (probation) – The committee determined the
program assessment was inadequate and required the institution to
resubmit the program assessment by August 1, 2023;

(5) Mount Mary University (probation) – accepted;

(6) Northern Vermont University – Johnson (probation) – The committee
determined the program assessment was incomplete and required the
institution to submit the missing components by July 10, 2023;

(7) Penn State University – Abington (probation) – The committee determined
the program assessment was incomplete and required the institution to
submit the missing components by July 10, 2023;

(8) Rockford University (probation) – accepted;

(9) Rutgers University, Newark (probation) – accepted;

(10) Saint Elizabeth University (restricted status) – accepted; and

(11) Trinity Washington University (probation) – The committee determined the
program assessment was incomplete and required the institution to submit
the missing components by July 10, 2023.

c. Review of Notre Dame of Maryland University single-gender institution
transitioning to coeducational institutional waiver. The committee approved a
request from Notre Dame of Maryland University for a waiver of Bylaw 20.11.3.10.2
(single-gender institution transitioning to co-educational institution). In its review,
the committee noted that this waiver will apply for the 2023-24, 2024-25 and 2025-
26 academic years, on the condition that the institution provide an annual update
to the committee not later than June 1 of each year during the three-year period.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on July 30, 2023, 10:50:17 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2023, 12:26:35 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on June 08, 2023, 01:24:38 PM
I'm not sure which user of this forum is in charge of the updates when it comes to the conference realignment changes come this fall (as of the 2023-24 school year). But would it be fair to announce that the NECC will no longer be an athletic conference that sponsor multiple sports (due to the last remaining member will leave for another regional-based conference), while in the process, that said conference would become a single sport-only conference (making reference to men's volleyball)?

It would be very fair to announce that, yes.

All users are welcome to make updates or clarifications, so feel free!

Thank you, which is all I asked. Sorry for the delayed response.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on July 30, 2023, 10:56:10 AM
Also, even with certain safe perks in terms of automatic qualifiers for some sports, hope the C2C and the ASC (both having 6 and 5 respectively, in the C2C's case it has 5 men's & women's and 1 women's-only) would need to find member schools as expansion candidates to remain alive in the long term; or otherwise they are in the brink to be squandered and be in favor to join more nearby regional friendly conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 08, 2023, 10:51:33 PM
bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on August 09, 2023, 08:11:30 AM
Quote from: jlog3000 on July 30, 2023, 10:56:10 AM
Also, even with certain safe perks in terms of automatic qualifiers for some sports, hope the C2C and the ASC (both having 6 and 5 respectively, in the C2C's case it has 5 men's & women's and 1 women's-only) would need to find member schools as expansion candidates to remain alive in the long term; or otherwise they are in the brink to be squandered and be in favor to join more nearby regional friendly conferences.

Ummm....the sole reason the C2C exists is because this has already been explored and there is no place to go. But hey - I'm open for suggestions!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 09, 2023, 10:42:11 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on August 09, 2023, 08:11:30 AM
Quote from: jlog3000 on July 30, 2023, 10:56:10 AM
Also, even with certain safe perks in terms of automatic qualifiers for some sports, hope the C2C and the ASC (both having 6 and 5 respectively, in the C2C's case it has 5 men's & women's and 1 women's-only) would need to find member schools as expansion candidates to remain alive in the long term; or otherwise they are in the brink to be squandered and be in favor to join more nearby regional friendly conferences.

Ummm....the sole reason the C2C exists is because this has already been explored and there is no place to go. But hey - I'm open for suggestions!

I have two suggested conferences for CNU, but it involves jumping to NCAA Division 2. CNU is just too isolated to get an invite from a D3 conference that wants state schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on August 09, 2023, 04:28:42 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on August 09, 2023, 10:42:11 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on August 09, 2023, 08:11:30 AM
Quote from: jlog3000 on July 30, 2023, 10:56:10 AM
Also, even with certain safe perks in terms of automatic qualifiers for some sports, hope the C2C and the ASC (both having 6 and 5 respectively, in the C2C's case it has 5 men's & women's and 1 women's-only) would need to find member schools as expansion candidates to remain alive in the long term; or otherwise they are in the brink to be squandered and be in favor to join more nearby regional friendly conferences.

Ummm....the sole reason the C2C exists is because this has already been explored and there is no place to go. But hey - I'm open for suggestions!

I have two suggested conferences for CNU, but it involves jumping to NCAA Division 2. CNU is just too isolated to get an invite from a D3 conference that wants state schools.

True. Even those 2 D2 conferences are not a great fit especially since CNU really wants to stay D3. There is a better D1 conference option than the 2 D2 conferences. But it just isn't going to happen any time soon. There is too much uncertainty in the D1 NCAA landscape at the moment.



Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 21, 2023, 06:27:22 PM
Brockport and Geneseo to the Empire 8... https://empire8.com/news/2023/8/21/general-suny-brockport-and-suny-geneseo-to-join-empire-8-2024-25-start-date-anticipated.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 21, 2023, 07:35:36 PM
This is totally bizarre, why would they leave the SUNYAC at all, let alone for the Fisher and I forget how many dwarves conference that is the E8?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 21, 2023, 07:51:06 PM
From what we've been hearing, the geographic scope of the SUNYAC including those schools (and Buffalo and Fredonia) and the schools such as Potsdam and Plattsburgh is a lot of travel that they don't want to have to do.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 21, 2023, 07:58:31 PM
The 'YAC has been rather snobby towards the NAC West contingent of SUNY schools, one wonders if their attitude might get much friendlier now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 21, 2023, 10:48:07 PM
My thoughts exactly. SUNY Canton, SUNY Delhi, SUNY Cobleskill, and/or SUNY Morrisville might be looking much better now in the eyes of the 'YACers.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 22, 2023, 09:56:01 AM
The other question is: Do Buff State and Fredonia, which are now out on an extreme island with regard to the rest of the SUNYAC, opt to move to the AMCC? Football is not an issue; the AMCC doesn't sponsor the sport, Fredonia doesn't have a football program, and Buff State is already a football-only member of the Liberty League.

The AMCC is a mixed league that has a public-school majority, and there are already two western NY schools in that league (Hilbert and Alfred State), with two others (Pitt-Bradford and PSU-Behrend) just across the Pennsylvania border from WNY.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 22, 2023, 10:30:21 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 22, 2023, 09:56:01 AM
The other question is: Do Buff State and Fredonia, which are now out on an extreme island with regard to the rest of the SUNYAC, opt to move to the AMCC? Football is not an issue; the AMCC doesn't sponsor the sport, Fredonia doesn't have a football program, and Buff State is already a football-only member of the Liberty League.

The AMCC is a mixed league that has a public-school majority, and there are already two western NY schools in that league (Hilbert and Alfred State), with two others (Pitt-Bradford and PSU-Behrend) just across the Pennsylvania border from WNY.

Sounds very plausible. The Bengals and Blue Devils have been totally non-competitive in the SUNYAC for a long time in the vast majority of their sports. AMCC is a better fit for where they're at right now and in the future.

I'm not certain the Empire Greater Than 8 is done either, it sounds like Utica has found the D1 hockey home they were searching for and will be moving the rest of the athletic department to D2 (Northeast 10 or ECC) within 1-2 years. Also I have it on good authority that Elmira, Sage, and Hartwick voted no on E8 expansion and are starting to explore their options.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 22, 2023, 10:51:55 AM
And of Elmira, Hartwick and Sage, I wonder if they will all be open in five years' time anyway.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 22, 2023, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 22, 2023, 10:51:55 AM
And of Elmira, Hartwick and Sage, I wonder if they will all be open in five years' time anyway.

yeah, same here...they're all among that cohort on the cliff's edge for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 22, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
Yeah, they not only have to deal with the coming demographic collapse of America's college-age cohort, they also have to face the music in terms of the ongoing depopulation of upstate New York that's been happening for forty years now and shows no sign of slowing down.

My high-school alma mater in suburban Onondaga County had nearly four thousand students when I attended there. Last year it had 2,100, and I talked to a friend back in the Syracuse area who told me that it'll be dipping below two thousand this fall. Stuff like that is not good news if you're a New York college that draws most of its students from in-state.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: IC798891 on August 26, 2023, 09:02:46 AM
I work at Ithaca, and the demographic changes are looming over everything. You've got to change things. IC added a graduate level physician's assistant program, one of the country's fastest growing job fields

https://www.ithaca.edu/news/ic-launches-high-demand-physician-assistant-program-fast-growing-profession

They've also invested more heavily in recruiting students from outside the Northeast region

https://www.ithaca.edu/news/board-trustees-chair-david-h-lissy-87-makes-gift-expand-recruitment-and-marketing-resources

IC is very lucky to be able to do this. Smaller schools that don't have those resources, or simply don't have a non-state or Northeast region footprint....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on August 26, 2023, 10:29:09 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 21, 2023, 07:51:06 PM
From what we've been hearing, the geographic scope of the SUNYAC including those schools (and Buffalo and Fredonia) and the schools such as Potsdam and Plattsburgh is a lot of travel that they don't want to have to do.

That's spot on.  Geneseo and Brockport to the E8 - cuts their transportation budgets by HALF, and eliminates all but one overnight trip.  SUNY enrollment is down dramatically in many places, and online enrollment all over the system is reducing the fees that provide the athletic budgets. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on August 31, 2023, 10:10:22 AM
Maybe the remaining SUNYAC schools would like to have greener pastures on other nearby conferences like the Empire 8 or the NAC (i.e.: North Atlantic). Or even the UEC (a.k.a. United East) where Morrisville and SUNYIT were former members back when it was the NEAC, as well as Cobleskill.

Plus, the UEC has 4 members out of 17 now (due to its 'merger' with the CSAC, when in actuality it was technically an amalgamation) that are from the State of New York.

In the case of the NAC, if any of the SUNYAC schools would like be next in line to be future expansion members, then it would solidify a newer NAC West (and the rest of the other schools that are east of the NY state boundary line (mostly the New England ones) be a newer NAC East).

As in general, many conferences are on the verge to be squandered with under 6 full members, and lesser than that to keep automatic bids alive, thanks to recent conference realignment changes in this decade alone. So I wonder if somewhat of a 'superconference' format would work on some of the growing conferences like the E8 or the NAC or the UEC, at least in the Northeast U.S. region. Or if any of the schools would like to move upto D-II, which that division hadn't had a school from the SUNY system in ages (the last ones were also former SUNYAC members Albany, Stony Brook and Binghamton before all eventually moved to D-I and compete in the AmEast (I mean America East)).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 31, 2023, 02:04:20 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on August 31, 2023, 10:10:22 AM
Plus, the UEC has 4 members out of 17 now (due to its 'merger' with the CSAC, when in actuality it was technically an amalgamation) that are from the State of New York.

Am I misunderstanding this? The UEC no longer has members in New York.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on August 31, 2023, 02:12:25 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 31, 2023, 02:04:20 PM
Am I misunderstanding this? The UEC no longer has members in New York.

Hold on, never mind. I thought they did still. I mistook it by accident, and only noticed the affiliates from an outdated map of the current membership via its Wikipedia page.

Regardless though, the rest of my point was that the UEC would also be a suitable conference homes for the remaining "'YAC" members.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 31, 2023, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on August 31, 2023, 10:10:22 AM
Maybe the remaining SUNYAC schools would like to have greener pastures on other nearby conferences like the Empire 8 or the NAC (i.e.: North Atlantic). Or even the UEC (a.k.a. United East) where Morrisville and SUNYIT were former members back when it was the NEAC, as well as Cobleskill.

Plus, the UEC has 4 members out of 17 now (due to its 'merger' with the CSAC, when in actuality it was technically an amalgamation) that are from the State of New York.

In the case of the NAC, if any of the SUNYAC schools would like be next in line to be future expansion members, then it would solidify a newer NAC West (and the rest of the other schools that are east of the NY state boundary line (mostly the New England ones) be a newer NAC East).

As in general, many conferences are on the verge to be squandered with under 6 full members, and lesser than that to keep automatic bids alive, thanks to recent conference realignment changes in this decade alone. So I wonder if somewhat of a 'superconference' format would work on some of the growing conferences like the E8 or the NAC or the UEC, at least in the Northeast U.S. region. Or if any of the schools would like to move upto D-II, which that division hadn't had a school from the SUNY system in ages (the last ones were also former SUNYAC members Albany, Stony Brook and Binghamton before all eventually moved to D-I and compete in the AmEast (I mean America East)).

None of the current UEC members are from New York. Wells and SUNY Morrisville left this summer.  The UEC has 3 affiliates from New York, although that might change with the UEC/CSAC merger.  One of the stated reasons for the merger was having to find affilates to flesh out some sports numbers. And Sweet Briar is no longer a field hockey affiliate as of this fall. UEC's footprint has shifted south, so the New York schools might not be attractive to the UEC.

As far as superconferences go, I figure it's inevitable. When Division 3 conferences see the number of schools closing or on the verge of closing, they have to be thinking that they need numbers. All the talk about "like-minded" colleges, national academic rankings, and sticking with schools of your particular religious affiliation (or lack thereof) will go out the window when the conferences are in danger of losing automatic bids in sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 07, 2023, 07:12:05 AM
bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 07, 2023, 07:53:52 AM
There's no chance I'm going to remember all these.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 07, 2023, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 07, 2023, 07:12:05 AM
bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: Mississippi University for Women
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

2024-25 is when the Brockport and Geneseo moves take effect, FYI
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on September 07, 2023, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on September 07, 2023, 09:10:39 AM
2024-25 is when the Brockport and Geneseo moves take effect, FYI

What he said, as both SUNY schools will leave the SUNYAC to join the Empire 8 (E8).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 07, 2023, 03:16:16 PM
Adding the Brockport and Geneseo moves. Adding Regent exploratory announcement.

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Where does Regent (Virginia Beach VA) land about 2028-29?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on September 20, 2023, 12:05:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Where does Regent (Virginia Beach VA) land about 2028-29?
The C2C, if anywhere. Since radical fundamentalist college Bob Jones had no conferences wanting to take them, I don't see Regent doing any better. I live near there, and they have a LONG way to go to be anywhere near a D3 school. Regent has NO on-campus athletic facilities, no dorms, no field, no gym for basketball or volleyball, no baseball field. All their home games take place at local Christian private high schools and rec centers. I can't see the ODAC or USA South even glancing their way. They are best staying in the NCCAA, or maybe the USCAA if they get some facilities.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on September 20, 2023, 12:14:04 AM
Here's Regent's press release about exploring NCAA D3 membership. It doesn't mention anything about an invite from any D3 conferences. Isn't that a requirement to join D3 now?
https://regentroyals.com/news/2023/9/18/general-regent-university-athletics-pursues-ncaa-division-iii-membership.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 20, 2023, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on September 20, 2023, 12:14:04 AM
Here's Regent's press release about exploring NCAA D3 membership. It doesn't mention anything about an invite from any D3 conferences. Isn't that a requirement to join D3 now?
https://regentroyals.com/news/2023/9/18/general-regent-university-athletics-pursues-ncaa-division-iii-membership.aspx

Yes, that is a requirement for the application to join D3, but my understanding is that application happens after the exploratory phase and before Year 1 provision begins. You can enter the exploratory process without a conference. So Regent essentially has 2 years to get a conference figured out. They will need an invitation from a conference by 2025-26 to being the actual membership process.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 20, 2023, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on September 20, 2023, 12:05:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Where does Regent (Virginia Beach VA) land about 2028-29?
The C2C, if anywhere. Since radical fundamentalist college Bob Jones had no conferences wanting to take them, I don't see Regent doing any better. I live near there, and they have a LONG way to go to be anywhere near a D3 school. Regent has NO on-campus athletic facilities, no dorms, no field, no gym for basketball or volleyball, no baseball field. All their home games take place at local Christian private high schools and rec centers. I can't see the ODAC or USA South even glancing their way. They are best staying in the NCCAA, or maybe the USCAA if they get some facilities.

Plenty of D3 schools play off-site sports and/or rent facilities. For instance, the CCIW is as established a league as there is in D3, but two of the nine CCIW schools still rent their home baseball stadiums from local park districts, and a third rents a local baseball stadium owned by the VFW. And renting gyms from local high schools is still commonplace for D3 schools that are in transitional phases (e.g., the time needed to refurbish an outdated facility), which is what Regent will be in.

Regent has money. More importantly, I'm pretty sure that Regent has the kind of connections and donor base that could raise the money to build athletic facilities. Whether it's the best use of Regent's resources is another matter, but this is what the school's braintrust has decided to do with them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on September 20, 2023, 04:25:24 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on September 20, 2023, 12:05:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Where does Regent (Virginia Beach VA) land about 2028-29?
The C2C, if anywhere. Since radical fundamentalist college Bob Jones had no conferences wanting to take them, I don't see Regent doing any better. I live near there, and they have a LONG way to go to be anywhere near a D3 school. Regent has NO on-campus athletic facilities, no dorms, no field, no gym for basketball or volleyball, no baseball field. All their home games take place at local Christian private high schools and rec centers. I can't see the ODAC or USA South even glancing their way. They are best staying in the NCCAA, or maybe the USCAA if they get some facilities.

I think one of the issues with Bob Jones was games/travel on Sunday. But I'm not really sure. I thought I heard that somewhere.

Regent will be fine when it comes to athletic facilities. I'm sure they had a plan in place for facilities before they dropped their name in the D3 arena. I predict it will not take long before they have very nice facilities.

They just made recruiting harder for D3 schools in VA and NC.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 20, 2023, 05:12:07 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on September 20, 2023, 04:25:24 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on September 20, 2023, 12:05:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2023, 11:46:23 PM
Where does Regent (Virginia Beach VA) land about 2028-29?
The C2C, if anywhere. Since radical fundamentalist college Bob Jones had no conferences wanting to take them, I don't see Regent doing any better. I live near there, and they have a LONG way to go to be anywhere near a D3 school. Regent has NO on-campus athletic facilities, no dorms, no field, no gym for basketball or volleyball, no baseball field. All their home games take place at local Christian private high schools and rec centers. I can't see the ODAC or USA South even glancing their way. They are best staying in the NCCAA, or maybe the USCAA if they get some facilities.

I think one of the issues with Bob Jones was games/travel on Sunday. But I'm not really sure. I thought I heard that somewhere.

I heard the same thing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 20, 2023, 08:49:55 PM

I think Regent will be a C2C school, if they hit all their benchmarks for full membership.  From what I understand Bob Jones travel and playing limitations were much more extensive than just Sundays. It was likely never going to work.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2023, 09:40:41 PM
Why do travel and playing limitations even matter in the C2C. They basically don't even play a conference schedule and from what I understand, they don't even have to participate in the conference tournament. Am I mistaken or missing something?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on September 21, 2023, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2023, 09:40:41 PM
Why do travel and playing limitations even matter in the C2C. They basically don't even play a conference schedule and from what I understand, they don't even have to participate in the conference tournament. Am I mistaken or missing something?

You are not mistaken. However, I would imagine that if they didn't want to be a D3 independent, being a de facto independent wasn't really a solution.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on September 21, 2023, 02:50:48 PM
No wonder Bob Jones' tenure as a D-III member (even if it hadn't achieved to full membership status or had gotten invited to an athletic conference) was short-lived. If the school had stayed a bit longer, they would make a fit on either the CCS or the SAA or the USA South.

Although they are now full-time again in the NCCAA, would it make sense to attempt applying to the NAIA? There are many few conferences that would let BJ fit on their footprints, whether on the AAC (the Appalachian) or the SSAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 24, 2023, 06:32:40 AM
BUMP

Adding the Brockport and Geneseo moves. Adding Regent exploratory announcement.

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on September 28, 2023, 02:12:26 AM
Quote from: ziggy on September 21, 2023, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2023, 09:40:41 PM
Why do travel and playing limitations even matter in the C2C. They basically don't even play a conference schedule and from what I understand, they don't even have to participate in the conference tournament. Am I mistaken or missing something?

You are not mistaken. However, I would imagine that if they didn't want to be a D3 independent, being a de facto independent wasn't really a solution.

I hate to say this but D3 is better without that school.

I don't have many kind words for Regent, either.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on October 02, 2023, 03:15:25 PM
Defiance is going NAIA. https://www.naia.org/general/2023-24/releases/NAIA_NewMembersFall_10_2_2023
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 02, 2023, 03:21:35 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Defiance (HCAC) leaves D3 for NAIA.
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2023, 06:14:23 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on October 02, 2023, 03:15:25 PM
Defiance is going NAIA. https://www.naia.org/general/2023-24/releases/NAIA_NewMembersFall_10_2_2023

Not terribly surprised by that. Defiance is not in great shape financially, and the Higher Education Commission put the school on probation for accrediting purposes (https://www.hlcommission.org/component/directory/?Itemid=&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1547) back in June. I expect Defiance to start tossing non-vital assets, including some of the Yellow Jackets sports programs, over the side of the boat in an effort to keep from sinking. Switching over to NAIA means that the school doesn't have to worry about maintaining that twelve-sport minimum anymore.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on October 02, 2023, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2023, 06:14:23 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on October 02, 2023, 03:15:25 PM
Defiance is going NAIA. https://www.naia.org/general/2023-24/releases/NAIA_NewMembersFall_10_2_2023

Not terribly surprised by that. Defiance is not in great shape financially, and the Higher Education Commission put the school on probation for accrediting purposes (https://www.hlcommission.org/component/directory/?Itemid=&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1547) back in June. I expect Denison to start tossing non-vital assets, including some of the Yellow Jackets sports programs, over the side of the boat in an effort to keep from sinking. Switching over to NAIA means that the school doesn't have to worry about maintaining that twelve-sport minimum anymore.

Defiance, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on October 02, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
I did a double-take on that as well.

Interestingly, Iowa Wesleyan had 16 sports when they closed.

I am not sure that I understand the math in moth-balling teams at non-scholarship schools or NAIA schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on October 02, 2023, 09:45:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 02, 2023, 03:21:35 PM

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025

Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)

This move is supposed to happen in 2025, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 03, 2023, 02:05:37 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on October 02, 2023, 09:35:20 PM
I did a double-take on that as well.

Interestingly, Iowa Wesleyan had 16 sports when they closed.

I am not sure that I understand the math in moth-balling teams at non-scholarship schools or NAIA schools.

I'm no expert when it comes to higher education institutional finances either, but I understand very well that stuff gets jettisoned when a school is in trouble. At least there will be some Yellow Jackets student-athletes who will still be able to play for their school. Better for Defiance to play NAIA than not play at all. Some schools that have stayed open in the current higher-education crisis -- Trinity International comes to mind -- no longer have athletics programs.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 03, 2023, 07:48:28 AM
Quote from: jeffconn on October 02, 2023, 09:45:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 02, 2023, 03:21:35 PM

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025

Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)

This move is supposed to happen in 2025, right?
As I understand it, they apply in February 2024 and the acceptance decision is Summer 2024. If accepted the provisional period would begin right away in Fall 2024. As things went with Sul Ross, there's likely to be a waiver allowing them to count for D3 opponents for one additional year and they're likely to play essentially a D3 schedule that year, but they won't be eligible themselves.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 03, 2023, 12:42:21 PM
With the addition of Berea and the departure of Defiance, the HCAC will still have ten members. Talk about an offset, after many fans of the conference thought of hopeful expansion.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2023, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 03, 2023, 12:42:21 PM
With the addition of Berea and the departure of Defiance, the HCAC will still have ten members. Talk about an offset, after many fans of the conference thought of hopeful expansion.
Which schools were rumored as candidates for expansion of the HCAC?
Thanks
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 03, 2023, 02:24:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2023, 02:17:10 PM
Which schools were rumored as candidates for expansion of the HCAC?
Thanks

I was just saying in hindsight as a figure of speech.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 03, 2023, 02:49:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2023, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 03, 2023, 12:42:21 PM
With the addition of Berea and the departure of Defiance, the HCAC will still have ten members. Talk about an offset, after many fans of the conference thought of hopeful expansion.
Which schools were rumored as candidates for expansion of the HCAC?
Thanks

Asbury's been mentioned a number of times, since, as a Kentucky school (like Berea) it's a geographic fit for the HCAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 04, 2023, 10:16:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 03, 2023, 02:49:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2023, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 03, 2023, 12:42:21 PM
With the addition of Berea and the departure of Defiance, the HCAC will still have ten members. Talk about an offset, after many fans of the conference thought of hopeful expansion.
Which schools were rumored as candidates for expansion of the HCAC?
Thanks

Asbury's been mentioned a number of times, since, as a Kentucky school (like Berea) it's a geographic fit for the HCAC.
... a travel partner...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 04, 2023, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 24, 2023, 06:32:40 AM

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
NVU-Johnson (NAC) leaves D3 for the USCAA [ON HOLD?]
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

I found an article from May detailing that VTSU Johnson (no hyphen and NVU no longer exists) will remain in the NCAA for at least 3 years while they "gather data." So I would say they're not going anywhere until at least 2026-27.

https://www.vtcng.com/news_and_citizen/news/local_news/after-shaking-athletes-vermont-state-university-reaffirms-commitment-to-ncaa/article_decf66de-f00e-11ed-b8be-e339c9daa645.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 11:23:38 AM
2025-26: Anna Maria from GNAC to MASCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 05, 2023, 12:17:19 PM
Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24 (Expected)
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Asbury joins the CCS
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Defiance (HCAC) leaves D3 for NAIA.
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the SUNYAC
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Canton leaves the NAC for the SUNYAC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Anna Maria leaves GNAC for the MASCAC
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 11:23:38 AM
2025-26: Anna Maria from GNAC to MASCAC

Talk about another surprise move. And that would be the first time that the MASCAC has added a private school (or a school that is not a public state university (either regional or municipal named)) in its history.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 11:23:38 AM
2025-26: Anna Maria from GNAC to MASCAC

Talk about another surprise move. And that would be the first time that the MASCAC has added a private school (or a school that is not a public state university (either regional or municipal named)) in its history.
Survival of the conference...

I anticipate that the MASCAC is well aware of the "Baby Bust" that is anticipated starting in 2026.  State legislatures and private university Boards of Trustees are confronting demographic challenges of not enough high school graduates. How many of the current D3 membership will not be with us in 2023?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
How many of the current D3 membership will not be with us in 2023?

To be honest, that's a fair and honest question. So far, like many others, I might not have a valid answer. However, is being within D-III very worth it (from a general standpoint)? Are they content to not have any scholarships and all the hard work and effort by the student-athletes on the field (depending on the sport) with the success and dominance may all be there for nothing, especially them to not even making a shot at the pros? Would any of the schools within athletic conferences (or even the conferences themselves) and independent schools either move a step up (being D-II) or a step down (being the NAIA or the USCAA) in order to compete for scholarship college sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 05, 2023, 02:43:27 PM
SUNYAC is adding SUNY Canton and Morrisville State. (Updated list above).

https://www.sunyacsports.com/general/2023-24/releases/20231005jcgtfr
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 05, 2023, 02:45:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 11:23:38 AM
2025-26: Anna Maria from GNAC to MASCAC

Talk about another surprise move. And that would be the first time that the MASCAC has added a private school (or a school that is not a public state university (either regional or municipal named)) in its history.
Survival of the conference...

I anticipate that the MASCAC is well aware of the "Baby Bust" that is anticipated starting in 2026.  State legislatures and private university Boards of Trustees are confronting demographic challenges of not enough high school graduates. How many of the current D3 membership will not be with us in 2023?

It's one thing to concede to the tenor of the times and opt for a mixed-polity (both public and private) league. It's another thing entirely when your very name -- the Massachusetts State Collegiate Athletic Conference -- indicates that it's a collective of state institutions within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Of course, what's in a name? We live in an era in which the Big Ten is up to, what, 27 schools now? And the Pac-10, so named because of the proximity of its schools to the Pacific Ocean, is likely to add Toledo, Boston College, and Georgia Tech to its ranks any day now.

Quote from: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 05, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
How many of the current D3 membership will not be with us in 2023?

To be honest, that's a fair and honest question. So far, like many others, I might not have a valid answer. However, is being within D-III very worth it (from a general standpoint)? Are they content to not have any scholarships and all the hard work and effort by the student-athletes on the field (depending on the sport) with the success and dominance may all be there for nothing, especially them to not even making a shot at the pros? Would any of the schools within athletic conferences (or even the conferences themselves) and independent schools either move a step up (being D-II) or a step down (being the NAIA or the USCAA) in order to compete for scholarship college sports?

On the contrary, for several years now D3 schools have been noting a rise in the proportion of student-athletes to the general undergrad population, and responding accordingly by adding more sports. A pretty significant percentage of American high-school athletes want to have the chance to compete on the intercollegiate level after they graduate, and they're willing to pay tuition for that chance (the vast majority of NAIA student-athletes pay for most of their schooling, too, if not all of it). Athletics has become a big draw, even a necessary one, for D3 admissions departments, aside from those at the more wealthy and academically elite institutions -- and even some of those schools have a bewilderingly large menu of intercollegiate sports that they sponsor.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 03:02:04 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 05, 2023, 02:43:27 PM
SUNYAC is adding SUNY Canton and Morrisville State. (Updated list above).

https://www.sunyacsports.com/general/2023-24/releases/20231005jcgtfr

This has turned things around. So the NAC will only have SUNY Morrisville for just one athletics season, once spring 2024 ends. Meaning that SUNY Morrisville will rejoin the SUNYAC after an early stint before moving to the NEAC (now the United East) in the late 2000's.

For SUNY Canton, who also competes in the NAC, this is new to them, when it comes to joining the SUNYAC. Now the only SUNY schools to not being a part of that conference are SUNY Cobleskill (NAC), SUNY Delhi (NAC), SUNY Maritime (Skyline), SUNY Old Westbury (Skyline), SUNY Poly [formerly SUNYIT] (NAC) and SUNY Purchase (Skyline).

In the end of the day, this would offset the losses of SUNY Brockport and SUNY Geneseo.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 03:06:44 PM
more of a football question, but clearly the ECFC is going the way of the dodo. Castleton is joining the MASCAC next year and Anna Maria in 2025. They were already in the AQ grace period.

Which conferences do you think will take in Alfred State, Dean, and Gallaudet football?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2023, 04:23:34 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 03:06:44 PM
more of a football question, but clearly the ECFC is going the way of the dodo. Castleton is joining the MASCAC next year and Anna Maria in 2025. They were already in the AQ grace period.

Which conferences do you think will take in Alfred State, Dean, and Gallaudet football?

Clearly they're going to join the ASC, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 03:06:44 PM
Which conferences do you think will take in Alfred State, Dean, and Gallaudet football?

In a football-affiliate membership status standpoint: Alfred State to the Empire 8 or Independent, Dean to the NEWMAC (alongside other GNeAC 'friend' Norwich) and Gallaudet to the Landmark (with UEC 'friend' Keystone). Thoughts?

On a sidenote, any link of Anna Maria moving to the MASCAC from the GNeAC? Just curious.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 05, 2023, 04:58:00 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 05, 2023, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 03:06:44 PM
Which conferences do you think will take in Alfred State, Dean, and Gallaudet football?

In a football-affiliate membership status standpoint: Alfred State to the Empire 8 or Independent, Dean to the NEWMAC (alongside other GNeAC 'friend' Norwich) and Gallaudet to the Landmark (with UEC 'friend' Keystone). Thoughts?

On a sidenote, any link of Anna Maria moving to the MASCAC from the GNeAC? Just curious.

https://mascac.prestosports.com/news/23-24_News/Anna_Maria_Announcement
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 09, 2023, 01:11:47 PM
CCS swapping one Kentucky school for another.

https://collegiateconferenceofthesouth.com/news/2023/10/5/general-asbury-joins-division-iii-collegiate-conference-of-the-south.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 09, 2023, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 09, 2023, 01:11:47 PM
CCS swapping one Kentucky school for another.

https://collegiateconferenceofthesouth.com/news/2023/10/5/general-asbury-joins-division-iii-collegiate-conference-of-the-south.aspx
So the mystery has finally been solved.
How do you folks in New England and Mid Atlantic do all this changing every year? We get one or two movements around here and I'm exhausted :o
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 09, 2023, 07:21:39 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 09, 2023, 01:33:58 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 09, 2023, 01:11:47 PM
CCS swapping one Kentucky school for another.

https://collegiateconferenceofthesouth.com/news/2023/10/5/general-asbury-joins-division-iii-collegiate-conference-of-the-south.aspx
So the mystery has finally been solved.
How do you folks in New England and Mid Atlantic do all this changing every year? We get one or two movements around here and I'm exhausted :o

I find I do a fair bit of counting on my fingers and toes.

My question following the Canton/Morrisville --> SUNYAC move is what's up with Poly/Delhi/Cobleskill and the NAC West.

Option 1 - do nothing, NAC moves either Lesley or VTSU Lyndon to the West to re-balance 6 & 6.

Option 2 - bang on the SUNYAC's door to come along even though none of them are really competitively ready for that.

Option 3 - recruit disgruntled New York colleges to replace the two you're losing. Sage and Hartwick would be good fits.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 09, 2023, 07:34:30 PM
With all due to respect, but wouldn't it make it clearly more sense for the active SUNY schools (that are within D-III, excluding Brockport and Geneseo, and not including the top ones that are in D-I being Buffalo, Albany, Binghamton and Stony Brook) all join the SUNYAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2023, 09:41:59 PM
SUNY-Old Westbury is on Long Island, SUNY Maritime is in the Bronx, and SUNY-Purchase is in Westchester County. They really belong in a league based in and around New York City (i.e., their current home, the Skyline Conference), not in the SUNYAC. It makes no sense for them to do all of the ridiculous travel involved in playing schools clear across the state when there's a plethora of local schools within an hour or so of campus.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 10, 2023, 08:04:13 AM
To compare, the WIAC has almost all the D3 U Wisconsin schools except Superior, which used to be in the conference, but they're way up in the northwest corner of the state and moved to the UMAC where travel is probably a bit shorter and they could be more competitive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 10, 2023, 11:43:26 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2023, 03:06:44 PM
more of a football question, but clearly the ECFC is going the way of the dodo. Castleton is joining the MASCAC next year and Anna Maria in 2025. They were already in the AQ grace period.

Which conferences do you think will take in Alfred State, Dean, and Gallaudet football?

Well 1 of 3 quickly resolved, Alfred State football affiliates with the E8 in 2025.

https://empire8.com/news/2023/10/10/alfred-state-college-to-join-empire-8-as-football-affiliate-member-in-2025.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 10, 2023, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2023, 09:41:59 PM
SUNY-Old Westbury is on Long Island, SUNY Maritime is in the Bronx, and SUNY-Purchase is in Westchester County. They really belong in a league based in and around New York City (i.e., their current home, the Skyline Conference), not in the SUNYAC. It makes no sense for them to do all of the ridiculous travel involved in playing schools clear across the state when there's a plethora of local schools within an hour or so of campus.

Fair enough. Then putting the SUNY schools from the NYC area aside, would it work for Cobleskill, Delhi and SUNY Poly to be SUNYAC-bound, if that opportunity was to occur?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 10, 2023, 02:47:15 PM
Dean football to the MASCAC. Only Gallaudet unaccounted for now.

https://twitter.com/mascacsports/status/1711803793430491301?t=a7LRyoIVm6xWSUIJkpaZlQ&s=19
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on October 10, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 10, 2023, 02:47:15 PM
Dean football to the MASCAC. Only Gallaudet unaccounted for now.

https://twitter.com/mascacsports/status/1711803793430491301?t=a7LRyoIVm6xWSUIJkpaZlQ&s=19

Looks like that's official. Maybe Gallaudet would be an Indy for football for now until then.

P.S.: There goes for my predictions, according to one of my posts, lol: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5831.msg2090065#msg2090065
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 10, 2023, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on October 10, 2023, 08:04:13 AM
To compare, the WIAC has almost all the D3 U Wisconsin schools except Superior, which used to be in the conference, but they're way up in the northwest corner of the state and moved to the UMAC where travel is probably a bit shorter and they could be more competitive.

Superior had 3 trips over 300 miles in the WIAC and 8 total road trips. The UMAC has none over 300 and also has travel partners. So, outside of a short hour trip to Ashland to play Northland, they only have 3 road trips where they play Friday/Saturday, all under 300 miles. However, I do believe one of their trips totals just over 300 miles, but, again, you get two road games in one trip there.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on October 12, 2023, 01:49:09 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on October 10, 2023, 02:47:15 PM
Dean football to the MASCAC. Only Gallaudet unaccounted for now.

Gallaudet should go to the Landmark. It's the best fit geographically. The Landmark has only 7 football playing members, 6 full members plus Keystone who's also from the UEC. And Catholic U is only 3 miles from Gallaudet. Those two could have a great rivalry.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on October 13, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Interesting thought for another board perhaps. But since we chatted a little about Regent exploring D3 and where they might land......where would they land if they decide to start football?

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on October 15, 2023, 09:14:02 AM
Quote from: jlog3000 on October 10, 2023, 12:41:48 PM

Fair enough. Then putting the SUNY schools from the NYC area aside, would it work for Cobleskill, Delhi and SUNY Poly to be SUNYAC-bound, if that opportunity was to occur?

The SUNYAC at one time had as many as 12 schools, but that was back before Binghamton, Albany, and Buffalo were D-I. 

Many of the SUNY schools are having enrollment problems, as liberal arts and teacher education aren't attracting the number of students they did before. 

Brockport and Geneseo cut their travel budgets [and protected football] in half with the move to the E8. 

There are 14 SUNYAC schools "upstate" when you take out Brockport and Geneseo  [leaving for E8].

Enrollments range from nearly 7,000 [Oswego] to 1,800 [Cobleskill].

You could do an East-West or Large School - Small School split and come up with 2 7-team conferences.

The way SUNY funds athletics [through student fees] puts the smaller schools at a significant disadvantage to the larger schools.



Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on October 18, 2023, 11:42:17 PM
I don't know why I continue to read this childboard? I see conference changes for 2024-25 and see Cabrini (AEC) closes and it just continues to sadden me. It's as if I'm hoping for Cabrini not to close and I'll wake up from the nightmare. :'(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 06, 2023, 11:53:21 AM
We finally have a new chart confirming provisional pipeline promotions.

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Asbury joins the CCS
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Defiance (HCAC) leaves D3 for NAIA.
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the SUNYAC
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Canton leaves the NAC for the SUNYAC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Anna Maria leaves GNAC for the MASCAC
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2023, 09:41:15 PM
If I may add this...

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Anna Maria leaves GNAC for the MASCAC
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
New England College adds football in 2024, plays limited schedule in 2024 and then joins the CCC in 2025 as a Football Affiliate
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2023, 11:43:36 AM
SUNY Poly from NAC to Empire 8 next season.

https://wildcats.sunypoly.edu/general/2023-24/releases/20231121f2vkw4

NAC West division now seems untenable for Delhi and Cobleskill, wonder what their plans are.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jlog3000 on November 21, 2023, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2023, 11:43:36 AM
SUNY Poly from NAC to Empire 8 next season.

https://wildcats.sunypoly.edu/general/2023-24/releases/20231121f2vkw4

NAC West division now seems untenable for Delhi and Cobleskill, wonder what their plans are.

Talk about a turn of events. And no kidding with the NAC West being a bit unbalanced compared to the NAC East.

And out of hindsight, but who knows if these SUNY schools would someday apply to join the SUNYAC; while the NAC refocuses on being a New England-based conference?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2023, 02:35:07 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on November 21, 2023, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2023, 11:43:36 AM
SUNY Poly from NAC to Empire 8 next season.

https://wildcats.sunypoly.edu/general/2023-24/releases/20231121f2vkw4

NAC West division now seems untenable for Delhi and Cobleskill, wonder what their plans are.

Talk about a turn of events. And no kidding with the NAC West being a bit unbalanced compared to the NAC East.

And out of hindsight, but who knows if these SUNY schools would someday apply to join the SUNYAC; while the NAC refocuses on being a New England-based conference?
Open question to knowledgeable fans from NY...

Is Morrisville State a "mission-and-vision" match for the E8 in more sports than football? Would the E8 extend an invitation to full membership to Morrisville, now that SUNY-Poly is moving?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2023, 09:34:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2023, 02:35:07 PM
Quote from: jlog3000 on November 21, 2023, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2023, 11:43:36 AM
SUNY Poly from NAC to Empire 8 next season.

https://wildcats.sunypoly.edu/general/2023-24/releases/20231121f2vkw4

NAC West division now seems untenable for Delhi and Cobleskill, wonder what their plans are.

Talk about a turn of events. And no kidding with the NAC West being a bit unbalanced compared to the NAC East.

And out of hindsight, but who knows if these SUNY schools would someday apply to join the SUNYAC; while the NAC refocuses on being a New England-based conference?
Open question to knowledgeable fans from NY...

Is Morrisville State a "mission-and-vision" match for the E8 in more sports than football? Would the E8 extend an invitation to full membership to Morrisville, now that SUNY-Poly is moving?

Morrisville already accepted a SUNYAC invite along with Canton. That train left the station.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 05, 2024, 11:04:33 PM
John Carroll to the NCAC in Fall 2025. Pundits say this is cause more dominos to fall in the Region.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: TheProvider on February 21, 2024, 08:30:01 PM
Penn State Brandywine is joining the United East in '24-'25.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on February 23, 2024, 09:22:20 AM
I really missed this board. It's the only thing that could help me keep up with all the changes!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on February 23, 2024, 02:08:41 PM
Same here. The conference landscape is very confusing, even for those who know what's going on.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 04, 2024, 03:06:49 PM
The membership committee has released its agenda from last month, but not its report, so there's no indication yet whether these have been approved... Penn State Brandywine applied to enter provisional membership, while Johnson & Wales (NC), Mayville State, and Regent filed exploratory applications. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2024D3Memb_Feb26Agenda.pdf
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ziggy on March 04, 2024, 05:01:33 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 04, 2024, 03:06:49 PMThe membership committee has released its agenda from last month, but not its report, so there's no indication yet whether these have been approved... Penn State Brandywine applied to enter provisional membership, while Johnson & Wales (NC), Mayville State, and Regent filed exploratory applications. https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2024D3Memb_Feb26Agenda.pdf

Mayville State is interesting in that it would be the first D3 school in North Dakota and expand the current bounds of region 9. I believe the conference invitation requirement doesn't come into play for the exploratory period, only when it comes time to make the official application for provisional membership, but I wonder what initials conversations may have taken place. It would seem the UMAC and MIAC are the only logical possibilities, though the MIAC doesn't strike me as a league that would be interested in bringing in a provisional member. So, UMAC by default?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2024, 06:21:51 PM
I think so, and also the MIAC wouldn't generally be into having a state school in their league, either.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2024, 10:28:09 PM

I bet the C2C would take them!

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2024, 02:21:29 PM
ASC might kick the tires as well  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 05, 2024, 02:28:29 PM
y'all have jokes!  :o
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2024, 04:21:45 PM
I'm not sure how many updates I missed while d3boards was slumbering.

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent, Mayville State, Johnson and Wales (NC)

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Asbury joins the CCS
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Defiance (HCAC) leaves D3 for NAIA.
Fontbonne athletics in limbo? (closing in 2025-26)
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the SUNYAC
Penn State-Brandywine joins the UEC (provisional pending)
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Canton leaves the NAC for the SUNYAC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
SUNY Poly leaves the NAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Anna Maria leaves GNAC for the MASCAC
Fontbonne (SLIAC) closes
John Carroll leaves the OAC for the NCAC
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 11, 2024, 12:55:22 PM
Fontbonne is closing after the 2024-25 academic year. Updated above.

https://twitter.com/d3hoops/status/1767229013913657435
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2024, 03:21:24 PM
This may have been discussed before, but I was going to ask what the draw of the SCAC is over the ASC (with 3 teams moving), but then I saw 2 SCAC teams moving to the SAA the following year. Geography?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2024, 10:08:19 AM
The super short version:

-> There are athletic programs trying to get away from Mary Hardin-Baylor, hence leaving the ASC.
-> The SCAC has a reputation of having higher academic standards, which is attractive for schools.
-> However, the SCAC no longer really lives up to that reputation, so Trinity and Southwestern left for the SAA, which does generally feature schools with higher academic standards.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 18, 2024, 11:31:48 AM

Lots of rumors floating around Fort Wayne about conference changes upcoming - I suspect we'll see shuffling over the summer, even if those moves don't take place until after 24-25.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2024, 11:38:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2024, 10:08:19 AMThe super short version:

-> There are athletic programs trying to get away from Mary Hardin-Baylor, hence leaving the ASC.
-> The SCAC has a reputation of having higher academic standards, which is attractive for schools.
-> However, the SCAC no longer really lives up to that reputation, so Trinity and Southwestern left for the SAA, which does generally feature schools with higher academic standards.

More background on the SAA...

Trinity and Southwestern have long been members of the Associated Colleges of the South. It is a mission and vision thing. Centenary was D-1 for the first two decades of that organization's existence.

https://www.acsouth.edu/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 19, 2024, 03:35:23 PM
Old news but now official

https://www.regent.edu/news/regent-university-accepted-into-ncaa-exploratory-year/#:~:text=VIRGINIA%20BEACH%2C%20VA%20(Mar.,of%20membership%20in%20Division%20III. (https://www.regent.edu/news/regent-university-accepted-into-ncaa-exploratory-year/#:~:text=VIRGINIA%20BEACH%2C%20VA%20(Mar.,of%20membership%20in%20Division%20III.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 20, 2024, 04:44:07 PM
Bluffton is merging with University of Findlay. The plan is for the two schools to continue to operate separate athletics departments (pending NCAA approval). Bluffton at the D3 level and Findlay at the D2 level.

https://www.bluffton.edu/news/-2023-24/032024merger.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 26, 2024, 03:12:59 PM
Birmingham–Southern is closing. https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2024/03/birmingham-southern-to-close
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 26, 2024, 03:14:20 PM
Bump.

Provisional Pipeline for 2023-24
Full membership fall 2023: MUW
3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2024): Asbury, Warren Wilson
2nd year provisional members: Hartford, Lyon
1st year provisional members: Carlow
Exploratory: Penn State-Brandywine

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Provisional Pipeline for 2024-25
Exploratory: Regent, Mayville State, Johnson and Wales (NC)

Conference Changes Starting in 2023-2024
Bryn Athyn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Cairn leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Carlow joins the AMCC
Cazenovia (NAC) closes
Cedar Crest leaves the CSAC for the UEC (sponsor women's sports only)
Clarks Summit leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the NECC for the NAC
Finlandia (C2C) closes
Hartford joins the CCC
Keystone leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Lebanon Valley shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Lesley leaves the NECC for the NAC
Lycoming leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Lyon joins the SLIAC
Medaille (E8) closes
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) joins the SLIAC
Mitchell leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the NAC
New England College leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Notre Dame (MD) adds men's sports and competes in the UEC
Rosemont leaves the CSAC for the UEC
St. Elizabeth leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Salve Regina leaves the CCC for the NEWMAC
Sul Ross State (ASC) begins reclassification period to D2 (waiver allows them to count for primary criteria, ineligible for postseason)
Valley Forge leaves the CSAC for the UEC
Wells leaves the UEC for the AMCC
Wilkes leaves the MAC Freedom for the Landmark
Wilson leaves the CSAC for the UEC
NECC no longer a basketball conference due to losing all members (Pool A goes away)
CSAC dissolves (Pool A bid goes away)
Expecting 42 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 22 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2024-2025
Asbury joins the CCS
Berea leaves the CCS for the HCAC
Birmingham-Southern (SAA) closes
Brockport leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
Cabrini (AEC) closes
Concordia (Texas) leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Defiance (HCAC) leaves D3 for NAIA.
Fontbonne athletics in limbo? (closing in 2025-26)
Johnson & Wales leaves the GNAC for the CCC
McMurry leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Morrisville State leaves the UEC for the SUNYAC
Penn State-Brandywine joins the UEC (provisional pending)
Pratt leaves the C2C for the AEC
SUNY Canton leaves the NAC for the SUNYAC
SUNY Geneseo leaves the SUNYAC for the E8
SUNY Poly leaves the NAC for the E8
Texas-Dallas leaves the ASC for D2 (application process pending)
University of the Ozarks leaves the ASC for the SCAC
CCS expected to gain Pool A bid
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids

Conference Changes Starting in 2025-2026
Anna Maria leaves GNAC for the MASCAC
Fontbonne (SLIAC) closes
John Carroll leaves the OAC for the NCAC
Southwestern leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Trinity (Texas) leaves the SCAC for the SAA
Expecting 43 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids, 21 Pool C bids
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on March 26, 2024, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on March 26, 2024, 03:12:59 PMBirmingham–Southern is closing. https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2024/03/birmingham-southern-to-close
The Southern Athletic Association will drop to 7 schools this fall, and rise to 9 in 2025. As far as i can tell, none of the team sports will drop below 6 participants.

Is it time for the SAA to talk to the 5 remaining members of the American Southwest Conference? They have to see the writing on the wall, with multiple small liberal colleges closing every year. In my opinion, all lower division conferences with small private colleges should be looking to boost their membership above 10 members, as a buffer against future school closings.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: river2 on March 26, 2024, 06:55:58 PM
Can't imagine new SAA entrants Trinity and Southwestern have any interest in letting in the remaining ASC schools. They would certainly have preferred remaining in the SCAC at that point.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2024, 11:39:30 AM
The UEC/CSAC merger was ahead of the curve on this, for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on March 27, 2024, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on Yesterday at 11:39:30 AMThe UEC/CSAC merger was ahead of the curve on this, for sure.
I'd toss in the USA South split and subsequent alliance with the Collegiate Conference of the South as being ahead of the curve too. The NCAA might have to revisit their ban on umbrella conferences like the Middle Atlantic Conferences.

The CSAC and UEC had almost identical footprints. The same footprint as the Atlantic East, Middle Atlantic, the Centennial, and the Landmark. There's a helluva lot of small colleges in eastern Pennsylvania, Maryland, and New Jersey! The colleges in the South, on the other hand, are way more spread out geographically.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2024, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on Yesterday at 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on Yesterday at 11:39:30 AMThe UEC/CSAC merger was ahead of the curve on this, for sure.
I'd toss in the USA South split and subsequent alliance with the Collegiate Conference of the South as being ahead of the curve too. The NCAA might have to revisit their ban on umbrella conferences like the Middle Atlantic Conferences.

The CSAC and UEC had almost identical footprints. The same footprint as the Atlantic East, Middle Atlantic, the Centennial, and the Landmark. There's a helluva lot of small colleges in eastern Pennsylvania, Maryland, and New Jersey! The colleges in the South, on the other hand, are way more spread out geographically.

I appreciate your take on this, but I would argue that the USAC/CCS split was actually behind the curve. In my opinion, it took place too late to really maximize their AQ potential before the enrollment cliff. I suspect these conferences may each separately struggle to maintain their membership as time goes forward.

I also want to point out for the record here that I do understand the USAC split was delayed because of the pandemic. My understanding is that it was ready to go more than a year earlier than when it actually happened.