MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by miac newbie, February 17, 2005, 03:57:25 PM

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SUMMIT!!!!!

why the shock/surprise DP.....a total no-brainer choice, on par with UST's promotion of Tauer. Should make some interesting recruiting warfare. It will be interesting to see if SJU's game plan remains the same, something similar or a radical revamp.
After the game, the king and pawn go into the same box.

Italian proverb

tomt4525

Middleton/WI Starz senior Ian Hokanson has committed to NCAA Division III St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minn.

Sorry, I've never seen him play so I have no other info to give.

Kilroy

Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on April 09, 2015, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: Kilroy on April 08, 2015, 02:03:32 AM
Also... not sure if you caught these...

Derek Magnuson transfer from UMD to Bethel
Conrad Engstrom to Bethel
Kyle Kaupa to Hamline
Chase Seiberlich to Augsburg
Kai Endahl to Saint Mary's
Michael Gutierrez to Macalester (!!!)

Thanks for posting!  Glad to see BU finally getting some height in the 6'7 UMD transfer...next year was looking iffy down low with Zimmerman graduated...hopefully this guy has some skills.  Assume he must be at least decent, coming from D2.

He will be good for Bethel. He was a very popular D3 recruit last year... probably more on the 6-5 or 6-6 side than 6-7. D2 was a little bit of a stretch, glad to see him back in D3.
Twitter: @northstaralex

GoldandBlueBU

Quote from: Kilroy on April 27, 2015, 12:57:35 AM
Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on April 09, 2015, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: Kilroy on April 08, 2015, 02:03:32 AM
Also... not sure if you caught these...

Derek Magnuson transfer from UMD to Bethel
Conrad Engstrom to Bethel
Kyle Kaupa to Hamline
Chase Seiberlich to Augsburg
Kai Endahl to Saint Mary's
Michael Gutierrez to Macalester (!!!)

Thanks for posting!  Glad to see BU finally getting some height in the 6'7 UMD transfer...next year was looking iffy down low with Zimmerman graduated...hopefully this guy has some skills.  Assume he must be at least decent, coming from D2.

He will be good for Bethel. He was a very popular D3 recruit last year... probably more on the 6-5 or 6-6 side than 6-7. D2 was a little bit of a stretch, glad to see him back in D3.

Good to know!  Roster heights vs. reality always give me a chuckle....it is frequently interesting to see nba draft physical heights vs. what a guy has been reported as...Michael Beasley losing 2 inches (6'10 to 6'8) when he graduated from K-state sticks out in my mind.

AO

Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on May 11, 2015, 12:36:42 PM
Quote from: Kilroy on April 27, 2015, 12:57:35 AM
Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on April 09, 2015, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: Kilroy on April 08, 2015, 02:03:32 AM
Also... not sure if you caught these...

Derek Magnuson transfer from UMD to Bethel
Conrad Engstrom to Bethel
Kyle Kaupa to Hamline
Chase Seiberlich to Augsburg
Kai Endahl to Saint Mary's
Michael Gutierrez to Macalester (!!!)

Thanks for posting!  Glad to see BU finally getting some height in the 6'7 UMD transfer...next year was looking iffy down low with Zimmerman graduated...hopefully this guy has some skills.  Assume he must be at least decent, coming from D2.

He will be good for Bethel. He was a very popular D3 recruit last year... probably more on the 6-5 or 6-6 side than 6-7. D2 was a little bit of a stretch, glad to see him back in D3.

Good to know!  Roster heights vs. reality always give me a chuckle....it is frequently interesting to see nba draft physical heights vs. what a guy has been reported as...Michael Beasley losing 2 inches (6'10 to 6'8) when he graduated from K-state sticks out in my mind.
I wish they would switch to standing reach or wingspan.  Mbakwe was 6' 6.75'' without shoes but was a 7 footer by every other measure, had a standing reach of 8'10.5" wingspan of 7'4" and the biggest hands at the combine. 

GoldandBlueBU

Quote from: AO on May 11, 2015, 12:51:44 PM
Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on May 11, 2015, 12:36:42 PM
Quote from: Kilroy on April 27, 2015, 12:57:35 AM
Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on April 09, 2015, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: Kilroy on April 08, 2015, 02:03:32 AM
Also... not sure if you caught these...

Derek Magnuson transfer from UMD to Bethel
Conrad Engstrom to Bethel
Kyle Kaupa to Hamline
Chase Seiberlich to Augsburg
Kai Endahl to Saint Mary's
Michael Gutierrez to Macalester (!!!)

Thanks for posting!  Glad to see BU finally getting some height in the 6'7 UMD transfer...next year was looking iffy down low with Zimmerman graduated...hopefully this guy has some skills.  Assume he must be at least decent, coming from D2.

He will be good for Bethel. He was a very popular D3 recruit last year... probably more on the 6-5 or 6-6 side than 6-7. D2 was a little bit of a stretch, glad to see him back in D3.

Good to know!  Roster heights vs. reality always give me a chuckle....it is frequently interesting to see nba draft physical heights vs. what a guy has been reported as...Michael Beasley losing 2 inches (6'10 to 6'8) when he graduated from K-state sticks out in my mind.
I wish they would switch to standing reach or wingspan.  Mbakwe was 6' 6.75'' without shoes but was a 7 footer by every other measure, had a standing reach of 8'10.5" wingspan of 7'4" and the biggest hands at the combine.

That and the fact that he was about 27 when he graduated ( ;)) made him play much bigger than his height...

Kilroy

Mbakwe once blocked me in a pickup game without leaving his feet.

More MIAC:

Kevin Gleason (Washburn) to SMU
Riley Sharbono (Marshall) transfer to GAC
Charlie Krambeer (R-P) to GAC
Tyler Frie (Monticello) to St. John's
Shane Steckler (Moorhead) to Concordia-Moorhead
Connor Bair (Prior Lake) to St. Thomas
Kevin McKiernan (Prior Lake) to Augsburg
Wyatt Ferm (Farmington) to MAC (huge)
Austin Korba (Apple Valley) to St. Olaf
Twitter: @northstaralex

SUMMIT!!!!!

A provocative and articulate read, written by St. John's University President Michael Hemesath found its way into my IN box:

This past March, I, like millions of other sports fans around the United States, followed the NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament, also known as March Madness. The tournament had a special draw this year as the University of Kentucky entered the competition undefeated and it was the favorite to have the first undefeated season in nearly 40 years.
Interestingly, early in the tournament, a friend said to me, "I'm just not that into the tournament in the way I was when I was younger — mostly because of schools like Kentucky."
What he was referring to was the Kentucky model of success, which has been built in recent years on a "one and done" philosophy. "One and done" used to refer to a team that entered the NCAA tournament and lost in the first round, thus playing only one game and then being done in the tournament. Now that phrase has come to refer to exceptional freshmen basketball players who play in college for a single year before jumping to professional teams in the NBA.
Some teams like Kentucky, and even academic power Duke, have had incredible success with this model, but it does not generate much loyalty for individual teams as fans barely get to know their favorite players who are gone after a single season.
As a college president, what I find even more problematic and ultimately damning of the "one and done" model, is the complete decoupling of academics and athletics, making the term student-athlete an oxymoron. While I can hardly blame the incredible athletes who understandably choose to make millions of dollars in the NBA, the system also treats the players who are not quite of professional caliber (the vast majority) quite unfairly. Furthermore, the Division I big-money sports system generates cynicism about student-athletes and makes the notion that athletics and academics are compatible a joke.
Yet there are institutions where these two things are not incompatible. At St. John's University and the College of St. Benedict, we firmly believe that athletics and academics can go together and even be mutually reinforcing. As part of the NCAA's Division III, St. John's and St. Ben's and our peers in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference are filled with passionate student-athletes who truly compete for love of the game as there are no scholarships or other inducements to play. Our coaches might best be characterized as educators who care about the holistic development of their student-athletes, including their success off the court or field and ultimately in life.
St. John's legendary basketball coach, Jim Smith, recently retired after 50 years of educating young men on the basketball court to be successful — personally and professionally — long after they had left Collegeville. At St. John's last home game this year, dozens of players from Jim's first year all the way through his last class were there to honor Jim for all he had done for them. The loyalty of the doctors and lawyers and CEOs in the group was built on what Jim had taught them on and off the court that had played an important role in their personal and professional successes.
Jim Smith is the winningest collegiate basketball coach in Minnesota at any level, yet he never sought to move on in the basketball world for more money or prestige, preferring to stay and teach basketball and character at St. John's. Of his many successes and awards, one of the things that Jim is proudest of is the fact that only one of his basketball players in the past 50 years has failed to graduate with a degree from St. John's. Only one not done.
So if you don't find yourself quite as drawn to Division I athletics as you once were, consider coming out to Collegeville or St. Joseph and watch some MIAC student-athletes who will be going "pro" in cities throughout Minnesota and beyond as they use what their professors teach in the classroom and the lessons their coaches offer outside of it to make their communities and the world a better place.
After the game, the king and pawn go into the same box.

Italian proverb

Gregory Sager

That's a strong and well-written advertisement, not just for St. John's, but for D3 in general.

The best ingredient for good advertising is truth.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

AO

Quote from: miacmaniac on June 28, 2015, 12:34:28 AM
Some teams like Kentucky, and even academic power Duke, have had incredible success with this model, but it does not generate much loyalty for individual teams as fans barely get to know their favorite players who are gone after a single season.
Kentucky and Duke don't have loyal fans?  What?  Kentucky fans follow their players for multiple years while recruiting them, and continue to keep track of them as they play in the NBA. 

There were 14 freshman that went "one and done".  Out of the 4000 players playing D-1 this hardly seems like an epidemic to be disgusted about.
Quote from: miacmaniac on June 28, 2015, 12:34:28 AM
Of his many successes and awards, one of the things that Jim is proudest of is the fact that only one of his basketball players in the past 50 years has failed to graduate with a degree from St. John's. Only one not done.
Is he only counting the letter winners?  4-year players?  Ignoring the one-and-done JV players?

We don't have to put down D1 to lift up D3.  Contrary to popular belief, the "one and done" players do have to go to class and pass.  The vast majority of D1 players are not leaving early to go to the NBA. 

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AO on June 29, 2015, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: miacmaniac on June 28, 2015, 12:34:28 AM
Some teams like Kentucky, and even academic power Duke, have had incredible success with this model, but it does not generate much loyalty for individual teams as fans barely get to know their favorite players who are gone after a single season.
Kentucky and Duke don't have loyal fans?  What?  Kentucky fans follow their players for multiple years while recruiting them, and continue to keep track of them as they play in the NBA.

He didn't say that Kentucky and Duke don't have loyal fans. He said that the one-and-done model "does not generate" much loyalty. I agree with that. From the perspective of the fans, there's a mercenary sense to a ballplayer only spending one year on campus when he could spend two, three, or even four wearing your favorite team's uniform. And no D1 fan disputes that seniors are a serious asset for a D1 team, even if those seniors may not have the high-ceiling potential of a one-and-doner. This past season's Wisconsin Badgers were Exhibit A as far as that's concerned.

The one-and-done model certainly hasn't ruined team loyalty in D1. But it's not helping it, either, which is all that President Hemesath was saying.
 
Quote from: AO on June 29, 2015, 11:42:18 AMThere were 14 freshman that went "one and done".  Out of the 4000 players playing D-1 this hardly seems like an epidemic to be disgusted about.

That's a little disingenuous. You and I both know that those fourteen declarees were not a random selection culled from the thousand-plus freshmen in D1. If they were, then the SJU president wouldn't have bothered to write that letter. Look at who those fourteen players were: Myles Turner, Justise Winslow, Jahlil Okafor, D'Angelo Russell, Rashad Vaughn, Kelly Oubre, Tyus Jones, Kevon Looney, Cliff Alexander, Karl-Anthony Towns, Devin Booker, Stanley Johnson, Chris McCullough, and Trey Lyles. Included among them were the first three picks in last week's NBA draft and ten of the top seventeen. Thirteen of those fourteen freshmen ended up being first-round picks -- almost half of the 30 players selected.

Quote from: AO on June 29, 2015, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: miacmaniac on June 28, 2015, 12:34:28 AM
Of his many successes and awards, one of the things that Jim is proudest of is the fact that only one of his basketball players in the past 50 years has failed to graduate with a degree from St. John's. Only one not done.

Is he only counting the letter winners?  4-year players?  Ignoring the one-and-done JV players?

We don't have to put down D1 to lift up D3.  Contrary to popular belief, the "one and done" players do have to go to class and pass.  The vast majority of D1 players are not leaving early to go to the NBA.

One of the Johnnies fans will have to address your questions specifically aimed at SJU.

As for your other statements, D1 is very frequently used by the uninformed to put down D3. As D3 fans, we need to be able to help people who are not in the know distinguish what makes our division a healthy alternative to D1.

We all know that at major D1 schools, classwork for football and men's basketball players is often close to a joke. And for the players who are sure that they're going to be one-and-doners, academic performance is not viewed as a hurdle at all. They know that they only have to pass their classes for one semester; once basketball season is over, it's time to spend the entire day in the gym doing predraft workouts and showcases.

And, again, the SJU president wasn't referring to "the vast majority of D1 players" -- he was referring to one-and-doners specifically, and the select few programs (such as Kentucky and Duke) that habitually utilize them. Read the article again. He referred to the "Kentucky model of success." In no way did he state, either directly or implicitly, that the "Kentucky model of success" was the only way that D1 programs operate, or even most of them. He named two specific schools. That's all.

You're trying to refute an argument that President Hemesath never made.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

AO

Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2015, 04:52:31 PM

He didn't say that Kentucky and Duke don't have loyal fans. He said that the one-and-done model "does not generate" much loyalty. I agree with that. From the perspective of the fans, there's a mercenary sense to a ballplayer only spending one year on campus when he could spend two, three, or even four wearing your favorite team's uniform. And no D1 fan disputes that seniors are a serious asset for a D1 team, even if those seniors may not have the high-ceiling potential of a one-and-doner. This past season's Wisconsin Badgers were Exhibit A as far as that's concerned.
The one-and-done model certainly hasn't ruined team loyalty in D1. But it's not helping it, either, which is all that President Hemesath was saying.
From the perspective of neutral fans only tuning in for March Madness maybe, but for fans of teams like Kentucky and Duke, winning has built tremendous loyalty.  I really don't see how loyalty could be any higher for these types of winning programs than it is today.  They have a different set of expectations for their one and done players.  They love the players, but they really love the school and the program.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2015, 04:52:31 PM
As for your other statements, D1 is very frequently used by the uninformed to put down D3. As D3 fans, we need to be able to help people who are not in the know distinguish what makes our division a healthy alternative to D1.

We all know that at major D1 schools, classwork for football and men's basketball players is often close to a joke. And for the players who are sure that they're going to be one-and-doners, academic performance is not viewed as a hurdle at all. They know that they only have to pass their classes for one semester; once basketball season is over, it's time to spend the entire day in the gym doing predraft workouts and showcases.

And, again, the SJU president wasn't referring to "the vast majority of D1 players" -- he was referring to one-and-doners specifically, and the select few programs (such as Kentucky and Duke) that habitually utilize them. Read the article again. He referred to the "Kentucky model of success." In no way did he state, either directly or implicitly, that the "Kentucky model of success" was the only way that D1 programs operate, or even most of them. He named two specific schools. That's all.

You're trying to refute an argument that President Hemesath never made.
For some class is a joke, but to use your word, it's disingenuous to claim it isn't a joke for some D3 players as well.  We have a big division with a wide variety of academic standards.  On the other side there are plenty of examples of "one and dones" that continue to do well in challenging classes in the spring.  1st pick Karl Anthony Towns is going back to Kentucky this summer to take kinesiology and business classes.

aero75


"1st pick Karl Anthony Towns is going back to Kentucky this summer to take kinesiology and business classes. "
UK already halfway through second summer session...






AO

Quote from: aero75 on June 30, 2015, 12:21:52 PM

"1st pick Karl Anthony Towns is going back to Kentucky this summer to take kinesiology and business classes. "
UK already halfway through second summer session...
There might be some online classes he was referring to?  He also mentions enrolling for the fall.  http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/eye-performance/201506/karl-anthony-towns-nba-draft-kentucky-wildcats-kinesiology-dominican

Gregory Sager

#18599
Quote from: AO on June 30, 2015, 11:18:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2015, 04:52:31 PM

He didn't say that Kentucky and Duke don't have loyal fans. He said that the one-and-done model "does not generate" much loyalty. I agree with that. From the perspective of the fans, there's a mercenary sense to a ballplayer only spending one year on campus when he could spend two, three, or even four wearing your favorite team's uniform. And no D1 fan disputes that seniors are a serious asset for a D1 team, even if those seniors may not have the high-ceiling potential of a one-and-doner. This past season's Wisconsin Badgers were Exhibit A as far as that's concerned.
The one-and-done model certainly hasn't ruined team loyalty in D1. But it's not helping it, either, which is all that President Hemesath was saying.
From the perspective of neutral fans only tuning in for March Madness maybe, but for fans of teams like Kentucky and Duke, winning has built tremendous loyalty.  I really don't see how loyalty could be any higher for these types of winning programs than it is today.  They have a different set of expectations for their one and done players.  They love the players, but they really love the school and the program.

I disagree. Go onto some of the Kentucky or Duke chat sites. They're rife with speculation each year as to which frosh will be one-and-doners and which ones won't -- and there's more than a little disappointment on those sites when they lose a one-and-doner to the pros.

Quote from: AO on June 30, 2015, 11:18:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2015, 04:52:31 PM
As for your other statements, D1 is very frequently used by the uninformed to put down D3. As D3 fans, we need to be able to help people who are not in the know distinguish what makes our division a healthy alternative to D1.

We all know that at major D1 schools, classwork for football and men's basketball players is often close to a joke. And for the players who are sure that they're going to be one-and-doners, academic performance is not viewed as a hurdle at all. They know that they only have to pass their classes for one semester; once basketball season is over, it's time to spend the entire day in the gym doing predraft workouts and showcases.

And, again, the SJU president wasn't referring to "the vast majority of D1 players" -- he was referring to one-and-doners specifically, and the select few programs (such as Kentucky and Duke) that habitually utilize them. Read the article again. He referred to the "Kentucky model of success." In no way did he state, either directly or implicitly, that the "Kentucky model of success" was the only way that D1 programs operate, or even most of them. He named two specific schools. That's all.

You're trying to refute an argument that President Hemesath never made.
For some class is a joke, but to use your word, it's disingenuous to claim it isn't a joke for some D3 players as well.

I wasn't being disingenuous at all, as I made no such claim. And I don't see where President Hemesath made any such claim, either; while he did tout Jim Smith's sterling graduation record, he never implied that it's standard issue as far as D3 head coaches are concerned. Indeed, the fact that the SJU president went out of his way to mention it seems to imply the opposite.

I realize that there are D3 players who do not live up to the oft-bandied phrase "student-athlete" with regard to their academic commitments. I'm pretty sure that Mike Hemesath realizes that, too. But, be honest, AO -- do you really think that there's no quantifiable difference between the academic achievements of the average D3 student-athlete as compared to the average major-sport D1 player at a big-time program?

Quote from: AO on June 30, 2015, 11:18:00 AMWe have a big division with a wide variety of academic standards.

True. But -- and this goes right to the heart of the matter, in terms of what the SJU president was getting at -- there is no economic incentive for a D3 football or basketball player to quit school after a year, based upon his sport. And, thus, economic incentives do not distort the relationship between academics and athletics at our level, regardless of the academic standards of any given D3 institution.

Quote from: AO on June 30, 2015, 11:18:00 AMOn the other side there are plenty of examples of "one and dones" that continue to do well in challenging classes in the spring.  1st pick Karl Anthony Towns is going back to Kentucky this summer to take kinesiology and business classes.

You're basing your case upon one guy? To invert the old cliche, the singular of "data" is not "anecdote". ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell