BB: General New England Discussion

Started by Paul Heering, February 14, 2007, 06:14:24 PM

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moc323

 ::)  I'm new to D3 boards this year, so, fair game for all other "in the know."   I have read all the New England discussions/comments over the past 2 seasons however and have now seen enough Babson snubbing and ridiculing.  Remember last season, when these beavers (Ward, June Wally and "the Beave") were left out of the invitations, by the powers to be?   There were many whom felt Babson was one of the top 3 "just out"/bubble teams even though they are 8-5 vs "The Wheaties" over the last few seasons.....including, "YES" , 3 of 4 this year---and the NEWMAC conference tourney rounds 2 and 3 sweeping of the ? # 3, 6, 8. 12. 15?? team in the U.S. IN D3 STILL, CURRENTLY?   If anyone chiming in on these boards watched a few NEWMAC games, there'd be much fewer boards loaded with Wheaties praise and much more praise for Babson and W.P.I this year.   Of course, the NEWMAC tourney, which Babson swept through 4-0 with 2 wins over Wheaton, to take them out,single handedly... (and yet Babson is still not ranked in TOP 25 Nationally, nor in Top 10 IN NEW ENGLAND even???)  Obviously, like everything else, politics must be involved in the D3 ranking system....
WPI is number 6 or 7 in New England now, are they?---and Wheaton somehow still shows up at # 4, or 5 is it?   Hmmm..  I guess the NEWMAC tourney was a fluke?    Let's see---yesterday's scores----ECSU 11-0 over those same, highly ranked, never to be moved from TOP 5 NEW ENGLAND regional rankings/ Wheaties ?    Someone involved in the invite process needs to pay a little closer attn to New England, in general maybe?  They also seem to consider this the $#%@ CONFERENCE....?   
Last Year's champ but have been a fluke also---wasn't Trinity about 43-0 going into the National finals?     Wheaton is ranked right nexto to them, while Babson doesn't get 1 vote for top 10 in New England?    I guess their out of conference schedule should be tougher next year, as they ONLY played, Southern Maine, TRINITY, Tufts, Curry, Rhode Island Coll, ECSU and Keene State maybe this year and/or last year?   Let's not forget 4 games vs Wheaton and 2 more vs W.P.I. this year...   Everyone, please Stop THE WHEATON BIAS, ALL THE WAY FROM THE TOP OF THE D3 committee, down to us know nothing, New England fans......  It's like N.Y. Yankee praise.....WHICH WAS ALSO APPROPRIATE---WHEN THEY WERE WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS.      Sorry, if my 1st entry seems a little harsh....it's not aimed at anyone in specific, just a little tired of 2 years of reading nothing but, "breakfast of champions" praise....    I think they are averaging about 4 errors per game the past 3 weeks---"crunch time??" 

Ralph Turner

Welcome moc...

Let me address your questions...



Quote from: moc323 on April 30, 2009, 07:39:18 PM
::)  I'm new to D3 boards this year, so, fair game for all other "in the know."   I have read all the New England discussions/comments over the past 2 seasons however and have now seen enough Babson snubbing and ridiculing.  Remember last season, when these beavers (Ward, June Wally and "the Beave") were left out of the invitations, by the powers to be?  There were only 14 at-large bids last season to award to the runners-up.  It is not that hard to be a good team and stay home. There were many whom felt Babson was one of the top 3 "just out"/bubble teams even though they are 8-5 vs "The Wheaties" over the last few seasons.....including, "YES" , 3 of 4 this year---and the NEWMAC conference tourney rounds 2 and 3 sweeping of the ? # 3, 6, 8. 12. 15?? team in the U.S. IN D3 STILL, CURRENTLY?   Babson was #8 in the first New England Regional Rankings in 2008.  Good but not stellar.  Mathematically, top quartile of D-III (top 90 teams) for sure. If anyone chiming in on these boards watched a few NEWMAC games, there'd be much fewer boards loaded with Wheaties praise and much more praise for Babson and W.P.I this year.   Of course, the NEWMAC tourney, which Babson swept through 4-0 with 2 wins over Wheaton, to take them out,single handedly... (and yet Babson is still not ranked in TOP 25 Nationally, nor in Top 10 IN NEW ENGLAND even???)  Obviously, like everything else, politics must be involved in the D3 ranking system.... Actually the top 25 in only reflective of 7% of D3.  Plenty of good teams are left out.  The season is still young.
WPI is number 6 or 7 in New England now, are they?---and Wheaton somehow still shows up at # 4, or 5 is it?   Hmmm..  I guess the NEWMAC tourney was a fluke?    Let's see---yesterday's scores----ECSU 11-0 over those same, highly ranked, never to be moved from TOP 5 NEW ENGLAND regional rankings/ Wheaties ?    Someone involved in the invite process needs to pay a little closer attn to New England, in general maybe?  They also seem to consider this the $#%@ CONFERENCE....?   
Last Year's champ but have been a fluke also---wasn't Trinity about 43-0 going into the National finals?     Wheaton is ranked right nexto to them, while Babson doesn't get 1 vote for top 10 in New England?    I guess their out of conference schedule should be tougher next year, as they ONLY played, Southern Maine, TRINITY, Tufts, Curry, Rhode Island Coll, ECSU and Keene State maybe this year and/or last year?   Let's not forget 4 games vs Wheaton and 2 more vs W.P.I. this year...   Everyone, please Stop THE WHEATON BIAS, ALL THE WAY FROM THE TOP OF THE D3 committee, down to us know nothing, New England fans......  It's like N.Y. Yankee praise.....WHICH WAS ALSO APPROPRIATE---WHEN THEY WERE WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS.      Sorry, if my 1st entry seems a little harsh....it's not aimed at anyone in specific, just a little tired of 2 years of reading nothing but, "breakfast of champions" praise....    I think they are averaging about 4 errors per game the past 3 weeks---"crunch time??"  Babson is on the radar screens, like another 6 or 8 teams.  Adrian was much the same way last year coming out of nowhere to make it to the Series.

Welcome and good luck to Babson!

moc323

thank you for addressing my initial posy, Ralph.   You are correct about Babson last year, of course---and about many teams being bubbled out, as always.  I also don't blame you for addressing my Wheaton bashing in my 1st post.  Please understand----I wouldn't bash Wheaton--a solid program x 11 years of NEWMAC, as we all know.....but----to add to my point about their "permanent place" kept for them in top 5 New England, no matter what they do---I just saw today's D3 headlines now----UMass Dartmouth, at a whopping 12-24 overall, just came back TODAY with an 11 run outburst to beat the "breakfast of champions"/yes, the higly ranked Wheaties---at Norton, Mass...on the Wheaties home field no less....
maybe the 3rd Regional rankings next week, will show Wheaton move up a few spots???    I'm hoping and thinking you have nothing to do with regional rankings?  please say you don't?  I honestly do not know your involvement, if any?      Are you one whom believes they should still be # 4-5 in New England, above 2 teams in their conference which beat them head to head this season 5 games to 3 ?      I'LL TONE DOWN THE LONGER I'M ON THESE BOARDS, JUST WAITED FAR TOO LONG TO JOIN IN MAYBE...:))       BABSON was the 1st team to beat Wheaton in the conference reg season last year--remember?   This yr W.P.I swept Wheaton, the day after Babson gave Wheaton it's 1st conf loss (they went from 9-0 to 9-3 in 2 days) mianly because Wheaton didn't have to play these 2 teams until the last week of conference play....   Then Babson beat Wheaties 2 more times in back-to-back days of Newmac tourney........and, still no major movement down by Wheaton, nor no sign of Babson on the rankings radar either?   Babson did have a couple key injuries and they lost games they shouldn't have....but---in a short tourney with top 6-8 teams, they have 4 nice starters whom can pitch with anyone......    You must admit----most of the Wheaton praise comes from their history----so, the D3 committee probably doesn't see enough NEWMAC games to know both W.P.I. and Babson are legit, while Wheaton should be one of the 1st teams you cross off, as upset bait, in the Regionals----IF they are invited.   It would be a tragedy if they are invited over WNEC, W.P.I. and/or Curry     The bias is seen everywhere in New England----as, even though Babson, then W.P.I. both took Wheaton off their perch, the NEWMAC final standings still show Wheaton on top of W.P.I.    Both were 9-3 in conf and W.P.I. swept wheaton head to head??   See what the "non Wheaties" have to deal with, year after year?   Thanks for listening....

Rick Vaughn

Babson hasn't received a ton of respect for the regional polls for the following reasons:

21-17 overall record - too many losses
0-4 against the LEC - Gotta beat some of the teams from the best conference in the region

Wheaton has because a) the history b) a great overall record (29-11) and c) solid wins vs. TCNJ, WNEC, and Keene St.

They lost a few games in conference - it happens.  ECSU lost to UMass Dartmouth this year too!

moc323

OK, THANKS AGAIN....I THINK THE "0-4 VS LEC" MAKES SOME SENSE TO ME NOW...AS, I HAD never looked for that STAT....    I KNOW THE OVERALL 21-17 is also key.   Thank God they won their tourney--and they knew that was their only hope for NCAA's, of course.    Last year they were flat out snubbed.....  Wins/losses/overall were all there...as well as being 1st team to dethrown, you know whom in NEWMAC reg season. 

TheGNAC

Hi guys,

The 2nd regional rankings came out today, and they are as follows:

New England Region
1. Southern Maine 31-4 26-3
2. Eastern Connecticut State 26-6 23-6
3. Trinity (Conn.) 24-4 24-2
4. Wheaton (Mass.) 28-9 25-8
5. Worcester Polytech 22-11 21-8
6. Curry 30-5 26-4
7. Williams 20-8 16-5
8. Suffolk 27-8 24-7
9. Worcester State 26-11 26-8
10. Western New England 25-14 22-13

--------------

I'm going to be perfectly honest here... was the committee under a rock for the last week? Wow. I don't have the time to offer my usual critiques of each team, but if I were ranking the teams today, they'd look something like this:

1. Southern Maine
2. Trinity
3. Curry
4. Eastern Connecticut
5. Suffolk
6. Wheaton
7. St. Joe's (ME)
8. Worcester State
9. WNEC
10. Babson

---

To be perfectly honest, WPI has no right to an at-large bid, and with the way things look currently, they might earn one over a more deserving Curry squad. If that happens, then...   ???

ECSUalum

WOW, Wheaton now really seems to have crashed and burned in loss to UMD!!

USM rolls over Babson, in a game only important to USM

Ralph Turner

I have been following D3 baseball very closely for about 5-6 seasons now.

We have a Top 25 for 360 teams.  (The Top 25 for BCS Football covers the best of 110+ FBS schools.)

The Top 25 means that there are about 60 teams that aren't getting any press.  There are 32 tourneys in Pool A conferences.  That means that there are 64 conference tourney finalists!  We followed Pomona-Pitzer, Cal LU and Redlands in the SCIAC.  CAC --Salisbury and York PA.  MIAA -- Adrian and Olivet.  Pool B-- 6-8 schools.

That is nearly 80-90 schools that are in the hunt!  There are so many teams below the radar that I am not surprised by who gets hot!  The West and the South finish early.  The West and the South get lots of press.  The snowbird teams are struggling to get games in, all the while the batters are playing 5-6 games per week.  You can get into a good groove playing that often.  That lets a team get hot and on a great run beginning in late April (about now).

Ralph Turner

Quote from: moc323 on April 30, 2009, 09:06:15 PM
OK, THANKS AGAIN....I THINK THE "0-4 VS LEC" MAKES SOME SENSE TO ME NOW...AS, I HAD never looked for that STAT....    I KNOW THE OVERALL 21-17 is also key.   Thank God they won their tourney--and they knew that was their only hope for NCAA's, of course.    Last year they were flat out snubbed.....  Wins/losses/overall were all there...as well as being 1st team to dethrown, you know whom in NEWMAC reg season. 

The Handbook says "Results vs in-region teams".

Stump

Another good analysis TheGNAC.  It must have been a big rock the committee was under. The ranking call is done after the weekend, right? How does Babson not at least make #10? And Wheaton and WPI who don't make the finals of their tourney both stay in the top 5? I understand there are many criteria they use in the rankings but it's beginning to look like reputation is now one of the first criteria.

Your rankings are much more on the money. The only difference would be to swap Curry and ECSU(and that's probably results from this week talking more that last week's results)

Next ranking will be very interesting with 2 very bad games for the Wheaties added on top of the failure in the WETHCTPI tourney. See where they end up ranked after this week.

Once again and on a side note, congrats to Suffolk and good luck in the Regionals from your GNAC rivals.  You'll represent GNAC well.

moc323

ECSU alum....you are correct about both comments---1st, I'll take it a step further than our earlier critiques of them---Wheaton is waaay overrated "this year".   Ranking a team, highly due to its "history" is bogus--and harmful to teams trying to be recognized---by winning....and by playing tough non-conf  schedules.   I do understand their being placed highly in pre-season and staying up there the 1st 1/2 of season...they were about 22-3 at one point and 3rd in Nation.   If we all look at their last 10 games---like the NCAA basketball committee does before March madness selections, we might see 4-6?   Facts---per being "snowbirds", once they got into lat season/tough conference/regional games, their (lack of depth in) pitching has now been exposed.   No more pre-season Florida wins, no more Coast Guard/Clark pitching in conf to beat up on now.   But---as someone said earlier this eve---the committee may have been hibernating the last 2 weeks?   Once Wheaton is plugged into top 5....based on their "past"...it takes more than 6 losses in 2.5 weeks to drop them out of top 15 in the whole country?   No-one else would last that long, would they?  And #5 in New England still?  

As far as USM beating Babson's # 6 or 7 starter today 15-9----Babson was actually up 8-6 in the 4th inning, fyi....and outhit USM most of the game.   The Beavers' # 6- 7 starter was used as they are resting their real arms after their 4-0 tourney performance last weekend over M.I.T., W.P.I. and Wheaton.....when Babson's 2nd and 3rd starters (Jeff Wojnar and Michael O'Brien---Newmac pitcher of week, prior week WITH 18 S.O.'S in 9 innings vs WENTWORTH'S 21-12 TEAM) each kept that vaunted Wheaton offense at bay for 7-8 innings each game....
Their ace, Andrew Aizenstadt had gone about 8 innings in game # 1 of tourney, giving up zero earned runs in their 1st win vs. # 3 seed, M.I.T.  at M.I.T....
tHEIR 4TH STARTER, MATT BARTON,  shut down M.I.T in the finals....going 8 innings and giving up just 1-2 earned runs vs an M.I.T. team which had just scored 21 runs on 21 hits in an earlier tourney game---coming back from 8-0 deficit to beat Clark 21-12 !!    So---babson has 4 solid starters----beware the Beavers in Regionals!     Maybe they do want Wheaton to get an invite???  Would be nice to get them again in  1st round---as a nice tune up for those top LEC teams, which are legit...    does the committe have the guts to leave Wheaton out?   yeah right....     sorry WNec, Curry, Suffolk and any other "deserving teams".....  Queen Wheaton still has their reservation in stone it seems....  

TheGNAC

Quote from: moc323 on April 30, 2009, 11:15:06 PM
sorry WNec, Curry, Suffolk and any other "deserving teams".....  Queen Wheaton still has their reservation in stone it seems....  

Well, good thing for Suffolk that they won the automatic bid over the weekend, then.

I do agree with your general sentiments, though.

TheGNAC

Quote from: Stump on April 30, 2009, 10:57:37 PM
Another good analysis TheGNAC.  It must have been a big rock the committee was under. The ranking call is done after the weekend, right? How does Babson not at least make #10? And Wheaton and WPI who don't make the finals of their tourney both stay in the top 5? I understand there are many criteria they use in the rankings but it's beginning to look like reputation is now one of the first criteria.

Your rankings are much more on the money. The only difference would be to swap Curry and ECSU(and that's probably results from this week talking more that last week's results)

Next ranking will be very interesting with 2 very bad games for the Wheaties added on top of the failure in the WETHCTPI tourney. See where they end up ranked after this week.

Once again and on a side note, congrats to Suffolk and good luck in the Regionals from your GNAC rivals.  You'll represent GNAC well.

Thanks Stump, enjoyed having another GNAC poster to talk shop with this year. I can tell you're a St. Joe's guy, so if it means anything, I'd give the Monks some serious consideration if I were on the selection committee. They proved yesterday they can beat any team in the country, and it's a shame they'll probably miss the regionals this year for the first time since 2004.

mans007

moc, and to everyone else who is not aware.  A few years back the ncaa div 3 powers that be created a regional point system.  So, therefore when the committe meets to pick the regionals it is now pretty cut and dry.  At large teams are picked by there regional points, period. There are no more bias or bangwagon voting. You beat good teams in region and you will amass enough points to get an at large bid. Win your conference tourney or beat as many good in region teams as possible. Other then that you don't have much else to complain about.

mans007

one more thing... I have not seen curry college play this year but im not totally understanding everyones perception of some kind of regional ranking diservice.  I think everyone will agree that the New England region is pretty strong this year but Curry really hasn't beaten anyone. In fact, they have lost to bridgewater and ric. They beat wheaton who everyone thinks is overated, thats it. I just don't see the arguments being made?