FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:14:07 AM

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spliskin

Are you suggesting that he is "coaching up" Cheech & Chong? Although, I agree 'coach em up' may have spent too much time studying the science of Hydroponics, this will be a battle to the end & worth the price of admission (even at the inflated rates of the "Historic Cameron Stadium").

spliskin

Geneva is now a PAC member? Attention, the floodgates have been opened. Who's joining next, Tom's College?

PittTBCW

I think that Saturday's game will be a great battle. The past 3 years has seen two great games. Last year W&J jumped out early on 2 miscues to take the lead 14-0 in the rainy afternoon at Thiel. I agree that it would be a shame if both teams are not at 100 percent but injuries happen because that is football. I think it will come down to the battle of Defenses. Both have good offenses. W&J has played the little sisters of the poor thus far and handled buisness accordingly. Thiel has played decent competition but nothing to phone home about even though OWU will likely win thier conference. I think Saturday will feature two great teams that will be in the playoffs come November. Whats at stake this week is the conference championship and I think all who attend will see something special.

GO TOMCATS!!!

the_burghboy

In a way, I hope you are right.  I tire at the homecoming game of the 'cupcakes', and wouldn't mind seeing someone actually provide some competition going into the second half.   

I was at that game last year and though I think Thiel has finally pointed that program in the right direction, didn't really see the game as close as you imply.  With kids at this age in the sport, anything can happen though.   I do agree that this defense has yet to be challenged from what I have witnessed.

That said,  if W&J is supposed to be a Top 5 team and contend for what people are reporting, Thiel should be handled with ease.  If not, then there is some explaining to do.



OldPhart

#64
burghboy - I agree with PittTBCW that the past 3 years have had 2 great games between these schools.  I also agree with you that last year wasn't one of them. 

2002 W&J 21 Thiel 17 - W&J barely outgains Thiel 321-319 coming from behind to score the last 14 points.
2003 W&J 17 Thiel 10 - Thiel barely outgains W&J 232-229 and suffers a 14 point swing when Pilato intercepts in the endzone, returning 100 yards for the score.  Despite trailing 17-0, Thiel makes a game of it with 3 late drives, with the final drive ending in a second Pilato interception as time expires. 

Those games were worth watching.

2004 W&J 34 Thiel 10 - Thiel outgains W&J 320-293 again but W&J leads in time of posession 33:03 to 26:07.  Thiel gives up two quick scores off of a fumble and a blocked punt early on and puts their strong running game on ice in an effort to make some quick scores with the passing game.  W&J eats the clock up with an impressive drive taking 8:47 off the clock - with 1 pass play and 14 rushes ultimately resulting in a touchdown on a 4th and goal play.

Thiel keeps it somewhat interesting with 5 red zone appearances.  However, they only capitalize on 2 of them -  while the Presidents were a perfect 4/4 in the red zone.

This game was a bit of a yawner - even though Thiel could move the ball on W&J they made far too many mistakes to stay in the game.

This year let's hope that both teams are in their best form. 

the_burghboy

#65
OP-Just curious, but out of those three games, how many of them were you at?

I ususally wouldn't cross the street for a Thiel/W&J contest (an admitted bias from my years), but have a camper up north and was closing it the weekend they played up there.   I was glad I went though, and was surprised at the improvements I witnessed with the program.

I watched the whole game, and all I remember was at half it W&J was up almost three touchdowns.   Much like the Hanover game this year, where stats were brought up against the Presidents, where all you needed to see was the game to understand them.    

This is just my opinion, but I don't think you can break down statistics after three games between two D-III programs playing no common opponents and come up with a trend that smacks one on the forehead in this game, let alone games from the two teams in 2002 and 2003 (or '04 for that matter). 

I'm obviously a W&J supporter, but like I said before would like to see them get tested at bit somewhere on this schedule.  If not Thiel, I don't know where else it will come from.   I maintain the formula to compete with W&J is ball control on offense, and a defense that can be physical and keep them inside the hash marks.

So says the washed up weekend warrior message board geek  :D


the_burghboy

A few rambling thoughts from a rambling mind:

*  Before the message board format was changed, we were having a discussion between IAA non scholarship and D III.   I guess it's not directed at anyone in particular, but why is Robert Morris playing Rowan last week, and traveling there?  If Robert Morris is looking to fill it's schedule, there are plenty of quality programs in this area. 

Rowan won in OT by the way 35-28.


*  What does the 'karma' mean on our profiles, and how/where do I get some?

*  I had someone tell me if I heard of a writer from the Washington paper (Observer Reporter) getting arrested recently?  This writer used to cover W&J athletics some years ago from time to time, and I was wondering if someone heard of this?  I don't want to put his name on here publically because A.) I don't know if it's accurate and B.) the crime I was told comitted was pretty awful.   I only read the OR online and don't know if anyone else would know.

If you do have any tips and don't want to pollute it here, you can use the private message feature here and/or email me.  Much obliged.

Pat Coleman

Yes, Tom Rose was arrested, and the Observer-Reporter covered it so I think it's fair game to talk about.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

OldPhart

burghboy - I didn't make it down to Cameron stadium in 2003, but was at the two in Greenville.  Of course - I looked up the stats, but was doing it to add to my fading memories.  If you were at the 2004 tilt you know that Thiel, after giving up 14 quick points on the fumble & the block in the first five minutes played W&J pretty even for MOST of the rest of the half.  Thiel was down by 11 points just before the half and I think the crowd was rather upbeat.  Of course, W&J had a nice 2 minute drill to finish out the half and pad their lead up to 18.  Even with that I really thought Thiel might have a shot at clawing their way back - until W&J  came out in the second half and ran it down their throats. 

However, the 2002 game was an excellent contest.  I was at that one also. My recollection was that Fry was dinged up a bit and I think he might have only been in the game for the two plays that he scored on - thats an item you can't fish out of the box score.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that 2004 yardage stats was evidence that Thiel outplayed W&J last year.  Although, I can't help but note that some W&J fans were VERY interested in pulling up the yardage figures on this board back in 2002 when the Gators upset them. ;)   All this said - I think the original intent of PittTBCW's post & my follow up was that the last three years have yielded 2 good games and one that was rather ho-hum - perhaps due to the two early Thiel miscues. I think the statistics, as well as the scores, bear out that these were competitive contests. I know I said "great" games in my earlier post - but on second thought they were only good - the wrong team won.   :D

Given this recent history between the two teams, what I know about each team's strengths and weaknesses, I expect Thiel to provide a test for W&J, as well as vice-versa.  Statistics, current W-L records, and knowledge about the players and coaches who make up the teams suggest this.  Of course, if we could figure everything out through these means we could get rid of those pesky games and just determine the wins and losses for each team by talking them through on this board. ;D

One thing I think we can agree on - if not Thiel than who else?  I think the best of the rest of the schedule is Waynesburg  and TMC.  While I know SaintsFAN has a high opinion of TMC's D, I think neither team will be much of a speed bump on W&J's road to the playoffs.


the_burghboy

Pat-Thanks.   I heard Rose was arrested, and could not find a link for it.  I assume it was for what I heard it was, which leaves me numb and quite nauseated. 

OP-Thanks for your thoughts, especially your points on the games you went to.  As for the statistics, I can assure you I'm not one that dwells on them.  Like I said before, I think you can use stats to support all sorts of arguments and opinions as much as facts. 

I remember the W&J folks bringing up the stats in the Allegheny game, and I think it was that game or another one they lost where I posted that 'statistics are for losers'.  Not meaning that literally of course, but chances are when you are arguing things like that, you are turning away from the scoreboard.   That said, I can understand and appreciate the banter when trying to discuss what may happen on Saturdays.    I have to admit I don't take as much stock in them as others do.

Maybe I'm a bit more sensitive after a Steeler loss.  If I hear one more person talk about the game clock,  or 'if WE didn't turn the ball over', etc.  I may hurl  :D






Cleveland Cartel

Thiel And W&J should be a solid game this year.  Edwards is quickly becoming the most prolific passer in history, and Thiel continues to make strides toward winning the PAC.  This year should be no different than in the past and will be a quality game with great coaching to be the difference maker.  Question is can Thiel rebound from its injuries of last week, and can W&J's oline handle a quick and blitziing Dline?  W&J never known for quality competition the first couple weeks of the season, but they have always answered the question when it comes down to the PAC every year.  Will they do it this Saturday?  Or can Thiel take another Step up the PAC ladder?  What are your thoughts???

the_burghboy

Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on September 27, 2005, 10:51:03 PM

  W&J never known for quality competition the first couple weeks of the season....


What does that mean? 

PACalum

it means in their opening games every year they play sub-par teams, in other words, teams they can beat up on.  Their first four opponents combined have one win so far this year.

PACalum

really looking forward to the game on Saturday....should be a great one--- Thiel must control the football game by running the football behind their experienced offensive line.  The defense must stop big plays and they will be ok----- easier said then done though----we'll see on Saturday

Bob.Gregg

PACalum, your point might have validity if the schedules were made in August, and you could show that W&J KNEW that ALL four teams would be down.

E&H has a tradition-rich football program, and these two teams have met in the NCAA playoffs previously.  They are down at the moment, but it's not clear that was known to be on the horizon when the agreement was made.

Hanover has numerous HIAC championships and trips to the NCAA playoffs as well.  The series between the two has shifted in the Presidents' favor the past few years, but is still very competitive.

Allegheny has a national championship to its credit as well as numerous NCAA playoff berths, and at least one meeting in the playoffs between the two schools.  While the berths may have been more recent in Allegheny's history when this non-conference agreement began, it is a fact, and the Gators have challenged the Presidents several times over the past 6 meetings.

Tri-State, well, THAT might fit your premise, but the other three are out of bounds.
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