2019 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

Started by PaulNewman, August 26, 2019, 08:24:35 PM

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deutschfan

An excellent game earlier was Hobart v. Messiah.  Messiah won their last meeting 1-0 in the NCAAs in 2017.  Hobart's 12 seniors with long memories and looking for national recognition return the favor today.  Messiah faces a tough Ithaca squad this weekend and could easily be 0-2 by Labor Day.

Saint of Old

Yep. It could be a long season for the Falcons... or it could be like 10 when they started with a loss to the Statesmen and then ran the table for another title.
We may only have to wait another few hours to have a more informed opinion on the matter.
A program this strong though could lose the weekend and turn it around very easily.

Ithaca is a very bad opponent tomorrow for the Falcons.
They should have participated in last years dance, and might have done better than many who went, but this year their destiny is in their hands and a win tomorrow would do a lot for their confidence and the league as a whole.

Already a few good games in this very very young season.

Falconer

Quote from: deutschfan on August 30, 2019, 07:21:46 PM
An excellent game earlier was Hobart v. Messiah.  Messiah won their last meeting 1-0 in the NCAAs in 2017.  Hobart's 12 seniors with long memories and looking for national recognition return the favor today.  Messiah faces a tough Ithaca squad this weekend and could easily be 0-2 by Labor Day.
Hobart played very well on both ends, Messiah pretty well defensively but not as well offensively. Before seeing the starting lineups, I thought the Falcons might come away from this road trip with one win (probably tomorrow) and one tie. They usually take several games to get their one-touch game tuned up each year, and Hobart always comes ready to play.

What I didn't expect, is that four starters didn't play a single minute. I assume they must be injured--if so, I hope not for very long--but they nevertheless didn't play. These include the two best players on the team (IMO), outside back Shay Quintin (who is also a crucial piece of the offense), AA MF (last year mostly a CB) Luke Groothoof, who was expected to be the leading scorer this year, his brother Jonathan Groothoff (10 assists last year from the wing), and Brit Haseltine, who didn't start last year only because he played behind Nick West. Except for Quintin, they all scored goals during the tournament, so they are certainly expected to carry the load this year, especially on the offensive end where the Falcons looked sub-par today.

So, with no intent to take anything away from the victors, who deserved to win, I don't think we know where the Falcons are yet this year. Far from it. I only hope that this season is not a repeat of last season, when most starters not named West spent at least some time, often significant time, on the injured list. They rarely played full strength last year, including in the tournament, and that trend continued today--and presumably tomorrow as well.

NokeAlum15

Roanoke and Lynchburg playing a non-conference match in Lynchburg.

At the half:  Roanoke 4  Lynchburg 0
1993 National Quarterfinalist
Six NCAA Appearances
Nine-Time ODAC Champions
Six-Time VISA Champions

Flying Weasel

#19
Well, the last time Messiah lost on opening day was to . . . . . Hobart, back in 2010 and has already been mentioned, they then ran the table to a national title with a 23-1-0 record.  That won't be happening this year. Way too many injuries for a squad that even healthy may have struggled some this year.  First, perhaps the most costly injury (and the one I heard a rumor about prior to today) is to All-American Luke Groothoff who could miss a good chunk of the season. What was news to me today was that three seniors are out injured.  Jonathan Groothoff (Luke's older brother) is lost for the whole season, playing career over unless he'd redshirt. His wing play and service (10 assists in 2018) will be sorely missed. Then there's leftback and 4-year starter Shay Quintin who also missed a third of last season and Brit Haseltine, Nick West's replacement.  So for now it's 8 of last year's starters who they are without (5 to graduation, 3 to injury) and a sub who scored 6 goals and was to be a starter this year. I'm not seeing any Nick West-like 30-goal tear coming to compensate for the injuries to a squad that already had question marks.  Going to be a lot of growing pains for Messiah this season.

As to today's game--not impressed with either Hobart or Messiah.  I have the wife and four kids with me, so I don't get to watch as concentrated and distraction-free as I'd like, so my impressions are more general than specific. I looked like on the goal that Messiah just failed to mark the scorer on a corner kick oops, long throw-in from the left that went to the far side of the 6-yard box.  Neither side really created many good scoring chances.  Messiah had a lot of poor first touches, lost the ball on the dribble too much, and weren't quick and decisive enough with the ball--things you hope are just first week, knocking the rust off issues. I did like what I saw from freshman Jake Lent-Koop at centerback.  Despite only two freshmen in the starting line-up for the Falcons, a fair portion of the game saw 4 to 6 freshmen on the field at a time.  Hobart on the other hand had 10 upperclassmen in their line-up.

deutschfan

Messiah starts 0-2 with zero goals in two games.  Offense was as anemic as the scoreline.

Ejay

Here's an interesting tidbit.  CNU defeated Greensboro 4-0 in their opener, and 31 players saw time (29 field player and 2 GKs).  Most interestingly, 25 of the 29 saw double digit minutes.  I've always been a proponent of emptying the bench when the game is one-sided, but very few coaches actually do it.  Kudos to Chezem for doing so in his first game as a head coach.

Flying Weasel

Well, Messiah looked much, much better today.  Moved some players around.  Still trying to figure out the best line-up after four preseason injuries, three in the past week, so players are being tried in new positions to cover for those out.  And on the whole, I though Messiah was playing better up until their unfortunate own goal (scrum in box, third clearance attempt ricochets off back of teammate and into the goal). The goal obviously lifted Ithaca and after they survived a short Messiah push to equalize, the Bombers had their best spell of the game with the ball in Messiah's half a lot and threatening to double their advantage with a goal of their own.  The Falcons survived without conceding and were about to make it a 50-50 game again before pushing hard for an equalizer in the final minutes.

After leaving yesterday's game somewhat pessimistic, today's performance was encouraging. Especially if Ithaca is a legitimate Top 25 team and when you consider that at times Messiah had 7 freshman on the field together. However, two losses significantly narrows the room for error to make the NCAA tournament, especially when your Strength of Schedule isn't great (on paper I would think Messiah's SoS will be lower this year, but you never know). At least an easier schedule, if in fact it is, could help minimize the consequences of the injuries and youth/inexperience until they start getting players back. Despite being encouraged by the Falcons overall play, finishing remains a question mark.

PaulNewman

I elected to post on this thread because the OAC deserves some national attention.  The early results are impressive....JCU over Kenyon, Capital over CWRU, Mt Union over CMU (at CMU), ONU over Hope (at Hope), Otterbein over SLU.  I may be missing a couple.  Two seasons ago the OAC had a tremendous season but this edition of the conference may have the potential to exceed those results.  Stay hungry, though, as it appears most of the results noted so far this year easily could have gone the other way or ended in draws.  JCU, Capital, ONU and Mt Union (based on early returns) appear to be the class of the OAC and will be interesting to see how those four shake out.  I'm guessing Otterbein and Marietta are a full step below those but still decent and competitive.  JCU appears to be the leader in the clubhouse in Great Lakes right now with the wins over Rochester and Kenyon looming large as two likely ranked wins which gives those wins extra significance (for Kenyon as a rival Great Lakes team the loss was almost like a double loss when thinking about what would be required to land over JCU when it comes time for the truly meaningful regional rankings the last 3 weeks of the season).  At any rate, we will have an better sense of JCU after a few more games and when we see how the OAC shakes out for JCU with Capital, ONU and Mt Union looking like real challengers.  The JCU-OWU match will be big for Great Lakes too.

I'm curious from anyone who knows whether there has been a sea change in recruiting in Ohio with attractive recruits being spread out more.  Kenyon historically hasn't relied heavily on Ohio for recruiting but they have snagged at least a few good ones the last couple of years.  I always assumed that OWU had the pick of the litter every year (after any D1-bound kids peeled off), and that other Ohio NCAC and OAC schools fought over whoever was left after OWU (and perhaps ONU to some extent).  The Battling Bishops seem to still fill their cupboard pretty nicely but I'm wondering if there is more of a distribution among Ohio colleges than 5 to 10 years ago.  OWU of course also always gets a good to very good out-of-state haul.

I missed the first part of the Kenyon-Colorado College game but apparently the Lords came out flying but then sputtered and found themselves down 1-0 in the 2nd half (and easily could have been down 2-0).  Credit to Kenyon for hanging in and getting a solid win but they have a very long way to go.  Colorado looked good but not great.  The Lords need to be much stronger and effective in the midfield.  They are really missing John Penas and I might have missed it but I haven't heard the voice of the Lords, Clayton Coffman, say if he is injured or how badly.  He would help them play quicker and with better possession.  They are not a big or muscular team and they must play faster and more cleanly with better chances created in the final third.  So far way too many long balls and too many glaring defensive lapses.  The GK is undersized and athletic...generally solid but occasionally seems to lose his mind and get caught way out of position.  Tempered expectations are in order, but in fairness I've never seen Brown have so many players that he's trying to figure out.  They are playing a ton of kids, but as long as they stick together, they will be better once a lineup and sub pattern crystallizes.  Speaking of Clayton Coffman, he does a great job calling the games imho.  One correction....he said Kenyon had not lost two games in a row since 2014.  Not true as that squad was 18-2-2 (and ranked #2 in the country for a good part of the season).  You have to go back to 2011 to find consecutive losses. 

Great slate of games today....

Centre @ Haverford (intriguing matchup especially for Centre who I can't recall playing anyone that far East)

Babson @ Brandeis (a New England staple and one where D3soccer.com's own Blooter will be providing on-scene commentary (assuming he isn't in a layover in Reykjavik)

W&L @ Hopkins (great game and a frontrunner for game of the day)

Cortland @ Rowan (oh well, there's another contender for game of day)

North Park @ Chicago (enough said)

Mary Washington @ Montclair

SLU @ Oneonta

Gettysburg @ Christopher Newport

Maryville @ Lynchburg (are the Hornets already in trouble?)

Transy @ Hope

Wheaton (Ill) @ Kenyon

Colorado Coll @ OWU

York @ E'town

Ohio Northern @ Calvin (intriguing after ONU's win at Hope)

Vassar @ Stevens

C-M-S @ Texas-Dallas (C-M-S trying to consolidate huge win over Trinity (TX))

Bonus games for Mid-Atlantic folks....NYU @ Drew and Dickinson @ Lebanon Valley

And of course, opening weekend in the good 'ol NESCAC....

Bates @ Hamilton (tough first game travel-wise for the Bobcats but Bates is my sleeper team in NESCAC this year)

Conn Coll @ Colby (can the Mules build off last year's miracle run into the NCAA tourney?)

Tufts @ Williams (I reiterate that I don't see anyone other than perhaps Amherst getting 3 points versus the Jumbos)

Bowdoin @ Amherst

Middlebury @ Wesleyan (Wesleyan needs and/or is due for a good season but I don't see that happening)


Ejay

Maybe not the "best" game of the weekend, but the Gettysburg/CNU game is still VERY interesting to me.  Gburg smacked Catholic, who was the big favorite to win the Landmark but then lost to TCNJ who was picked to finish 9th in the NJAC.  Was Catholic overrated? TCNJ underrated? Will Gburg be hot/cold again all season like last year when they finished 8-8-1 but beat ranked Hopkins on the road and drew with ranked RUN also on the road? And how will CNU be under first year coach Chezem? Will they find their winning ways again after having their first losing season in 23 years?

PaulNewman

I was thinking about this the other day and forgot to post it....

Mike Singleton is one of the really good coaches in D3.  A UPenn product, he had a decent to good run at MIT (where I'm sure recruiting is challenging), and now he is turning also very academically competitive W&L kind of quietly into a national power.  He reminds me of Tufts' Shapiro a little bit, albeit perhaps more reserved and introverted.  It's hard to imagine anyone other than Tufts or Messiah duplicating what Shapiro has done (3 titles in 5 years and a favorite to get #4 this year), but W&L should be strong as long as Singleton stays there.  That Lexington, VA area is gorgeous but likely is a tougher sell for some recruits than Tufts which is just outside Boston.  Anyway, I will always remember what Singleton said to a group of parents at a ODP tryout in his role as State Coach of Massachusetts -- "If any of you are here with thoughts that this will lead to a college scholarship please leave now and put the money in a college fund."  That was about 13-14 years ago.

Speaking of coaches, who are some of the other best young coaches in D3?  Bianco for CWRU has to be up there.  Margolis at Brandeis.  Serpone at Amherst.

Messiah has a great coaching tree but I don't know where all of them are.  OWU has at least a few out there.

PaulNewman

Kenyon survives in 2OT on the old ridiculous confusion fake argument free kick play.  Wheaton probably deserved to win.  Kenyon even in OT doesn't seem to know how to play compact defense as Wheaton had huge open spaces and got in behind the D and in on the GK multiple times.  Kenyon does have a bunch of kids who can score, though.  First goal came from a frosh who I don't know but who is from the town next door 3 miles away.

Curious about the W&L game if anyone has details.

A lot of interesting results today.

Oh, and All American Sam Justice who was the best defender in the country in 2014 texted me earlier to correct what I said about two consecutive losses.  They lost two -- to Case in OT and away at DePauw -- back to back in  the 20-3 2016 season that ended in heartbreak in the 109th minute courtesy of Mr. Majumder.

ChrisJS

Quote from: PaulNewman on September 07, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
I elected to post on this thread because the OAC deserves some national attention.  The early results are impressive....JCU over Kenyon, Capital over CWRU, Mt Union over CMU (at CMU), ONU over Hope (at Hope), Otterbein over SLU.  I may be missing a couple.  Two seasons ago the OAC had a tremendous season but this edition of the conference may have the potential to exceed those results.  Stay hungry, though, as it appears most of the results noted so far this year easily could have gone the other way or ended in draws.  JCU, Capital, ONU and Mt Union (based on early returns) appear to be the class of the OAC and will be interesting to see how those four shake out.  I'm guessing Otterbein and Marietta are a full step below those but still decent and competitive.  JCU appears to be the leader in the clubhouse in Great Lakes right now with the wins over Rochester and Kenyon looming large as two likely ranked wins which gives those wins extra significance (for Kenyon as a rival Great Lakes team the loss was almost like a double loss when thinking about what would be required to land over JCU when it comes time for the truly meaningful regional rankings the last 3 weeks of the season).  At any rate, we will have an better sense of JCU after a few more games and when we see how the OAC shakes out for JCU with Capital, ONU and Mt Union looking like real challengers.  The JCU-OWU match will be big for Great Lakes too.

I'm curious from anyone who knows whether there has been a sea change in recruiting in Ohio with attractive recruits being spread out more.  Kenyon historically hasn't relied heavily on Ohio for recruiting but they have snagged at least a few good ones the last couple of years.  I always assumed that OWU had the pick of the litter every year (after any D1-bound kids peeled off), and that other Ohio NCAC and OAC schools fought over whoever was left after OWU (and perhaps ONU to some extent).  The Battling Bishops seem to still fill their cupboard pretty nicely but I'm wondering if there is more of a distribution among Ohio colleges than 5 to 10 years ago.  OWU of course also always gets a good to very good out-of-state haul.

I missed the first part of the Kenyon-Colorado College game but apparently the Lords came out flying but then sputtered and found themselves down 1-0 in the 2nd half (and easily could have been down 2-0).  Credit to Kenyon for hanging in and getting a solid win but they have a very long way to go.  Colorado looked good but not great.  The Lords need to be much stronger and effective in the midfield.  They are really missing John Penas and I might have missed it but I haven't heard the voice of the Lords, Clayton Coffman, say if he is injured or how badly.  He would help them play quicker and with better possession.  They are not a big or muscular team and they must play faster and more cleanly with better chances created in the final third.  So far way too many long balls and too many glaring defensive lapses.  The GK is undersized and athletic...generally solid but occasionally seems to lose his mind and get caught way out of position.  Tempered expectations are in order, but in fairness I've never seen Brown have so many players that he's trying to figure out.  They are playing a ton of kids, but as long as they stick together, they will be better once a lineup and sub pattern crystallizes.  Speaking of Clayton Coffman, he does a great job calling the games imho.  One correction....he said Kenyon had not lost two games in a row since 2014.  Not true as that squad was 18-2-2 (and ranked #2 in the country for a good part of the season).  You have to go back to 2011 to find consecutive losses. 

Great slate of games today....

Centre @ Haverford (intriguing matchup especially for Centre who I can't recall playing anyone that far East)

Babson @ Brandeis (a New England staple and one where D3soccer.com's own Blooter will be providing on-scene commentary (assuming he isn't in a layover in Reykjavik)

W&L @ Hopkins (great game and a frontrunner for game of the day)

Cortland @ Rowan (oh well, there's another contender for game of day)

North Park @ Chicago (enough said)

Mary Washington @ Montclair

SLU @ Oneonta

Gettysburg @ Christopher Newport

Maryville @ Lynchburg (are the Hornets already in trouble?)

Transy @ Hope

Wheaton (Ill) @ Kenyon

Colorado Coll @ OWU

York @ E'town

Ohio Northern @ Calvin (intriguing after ONU's win at Hope)

Vassar @ Stevens

C-M-S @ Texas-Dallas (C-M-S trying to consolidate huge win over Trinity (TX))

Bonus games for Mid-Atlantic folks....NYU @ Drew and Dickinson @ Lebanon Valley

And of course, opening weekend in the good 'ol NESCAC....

Bates @ Hamilton (tough first game travel-wise for the Bobcats but Bates is my sleeper team in NESCAC this year)

Conn Coll @ Colby (can the Mules build off last year's miracle run into the NCAA tourney?)

Tufts @ Williams (I reiterate that I don't see anyone other than perhaps Amherst getting 3 points versus the Jumbos)

Bowdoin @ Amherst

Middlebury @ Wesleyan (Wesleyan needs and/or is due for a good season but I don't see that happening)

Hi I'm new here as a poster but have followed posts here on and off for a while as my son (Thomas Sloan) played soccer for Mount Aloysius for two seasons in the AMCC then another two seasons for Marietta in the OAC where he graduated this year. He also had the chance to move to a NCAC side but chose Marietta.

On the point of recruitment strategy in Ohio, I know for a fact that Marietta are looking to the UK. My son was the first ever in their soccer program but it seemed to work well and they have since brought in another three British players.

I'm also aware Heidelberg are looking to the UK also as I met both Heidelberg and Marietta coaches when they travelled to St George's Park in the UK last year for a series of soccer trials organised by international sports recruiters.

This isn't new of course, in the AMCC Mt Aloysius and Medaille have brought over players in recent years. I also recall a couple of the season ago the North Park starting line up in the NCAA final sounded like a Scandinavian touring team.

I think international players and UK players especially bring a different dynamic to the game, specifically in areas around aggression, mentality and soccer "savviness". The amount of times I've screamed "put it in row Z!" at the TV screen while watching a game, only to groan as someone has been caught in possession in a really dangerous area of the pitch and a goal has ensued.

Technically, I've been impressed with american players and I would suggest that they are generally better than their UK teammates in this respect and are also fitter, but sometimes lack the right decision making ability and would rather try a Cruyf turn, a hollywood pass or a 35 yard shot than a simple pass or a punt upfield. It may not be pretty but sometimes the best option imho.

I can't vouch for other teams in Ohio in terms of their recruitment but suspect they don't look internationally to the same degree and I haven't come across many British players in the OAC at least.

It's early in the season but the OAC looks to have a decent number of competitive teams again, like a couple of seasons ago, with JCU and Capital currently having the edge in my opinion over Mt Union, then ONU, Marietta, Heidelberg and Otterbein at roughly the same level.

Anyway, looking forward to watching the season unfold even without my son's involvement 🙂

Chris

PaulNewman

Johns Hopkins should rise to #2 in the country after wins against W&L and Montclair St 5-2 and 2-0.

Ejay

#13 NYU should drop from #13 to #130 after going 0-3  :D