The Big Dance

Started by Falconer, November 06, 2017, 02:05:01 PM

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Falconer

Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

That is believable, and very impressive! Might be the fastest miler in D3 soccer (of course, superlative mile times are not what soccer players care about, but still).

I second that sentiment. Perhaps there's a serious miler who also plays soccer well enough to make a D3 team somewhere, but it's probably a safe assumption that he's got the fastest mile time of any really good D3 player--and perhaps also of any D2 or D1 player for that matter. It would be fun to find out.

I appreciate knowing that J D Binger's record has been eclipsed. By several seconds, too. Thanks for looking into it, Rudy. +k for you.

Sherlock Holmes

Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on November 20, 2017, 04:42:20 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

I know we're in the midst of a mile-time discussion here (which I have no right to participate in, seeing as I'm likely slower than any DIII player in history), but I didn't want to let this go unmentioned. The people responsible for creating highlight packages (if we're talking about the same clips) wear so many different hats at the Division III level that they have way better things to do than include opponent plays in their own highlights. I think it was discussed elsewhere on this board, but it looks like Messiah had 8 teams in action Saturday, including a four-team basketball tournament at home. That means tons of work for a small staff of 3 or 4 people. And that's not to even mention that these highlight packages are mostly designed to promote and highlight Messiah; them including Stevens' or any other opponent's good plays does little to further that.
The folks at Stevens almost certainly have access to the very same game film - if they want a highlight out there of a spectacular goal, there's no reason they can't post a highlight themselves.

FYI Falconer, I'm not trying to just be contrarian or picky here. Would it be great to have a replay of that goal? Absolutely! I just think "they should be ashamed of themselves" is a little harsh.  ::)

Your rebuke is justified, Mr Holmes, your argument well made. I withdraw that part of my post with apologies to the folks who prepare the clips. Thanks for defending them. +K.

(I recall seeing some opponent goals in those clips from time to time, few as impressive as that goal by Stevens, but I'm sure you're right about having to keep it short and sweet under the circumstances.)

If I could give karma I'd give it right back. I know you meant no disrespect to those guys! In fact, I missed the goal myself, so I'd certainly love to see it pop up somewhere. It sounds like it was quite a strike!

I agree with you, I think I've seen some places do opponent goals in highlight packages too. I can't remember if I've seen Messiah do it. Definitely a few other schools. I'd guess it varies place by place and depending how busy the particular day was.

Falconer

#467
I'm sure Nick could make the track team, and probably bring his time down well into the 4:20s. He ran that 4:33 under conditions far from ideal. Probably not wearing track shoes and definitely not competing against real milers. Messiah has had several men hit 4:20 or under, to the best of my knowledge, but not too many. This certainly is consistent with Nick playing all 90 minutes at top speed in many games this year. Just like John Havlicek back in the day, he can go full speed at the end of the game as well as from the opening whistle. Most D3 players just can't do that.

For perspective on current distance running at Messiah, just one MC man ran in the Nationals this past Saturday: http://gomessiah.com/news/2017/11/18/mens-cross-country-messiahs-schott-improves-finish-at-ncaa-championships.aspx

It's interesting that they give Mr Shott's mile splits, for what would have been either a 5M or a slightly shorter 8K course (I didn't do the easy research to see which it is). Mr Schott ran 9:30-something for 2 miles in HS, unless perhaps high 9:20s once or twice. I didn't research that one either, but it should be easy. The specific course used in the Nationals this year is slightly shorter than the roughly 5.2M course my team used, and the times are a great deal faster. The all-time record on my team's course was just under 24:50, which works out to maybe 24:10 for 5M. But, that one was set by the greatest distance runner in U Penn history (according to their own site), the same David Merrick who set the all-time course record at Van Cortlandt in the Bronx and who ran 2M in 8:43 indoors in HS, which is still one of the five fastest times ever for a HS runner and just 2 seconds behind the immortal Steve Prefontaine. So, the two courses just don't compare at all.

Well, enough talk (from me, at least) about distance running. With a tip of my hat to Nick West.

1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

That is believable, and very impressive! Might be the fastest miler in D3 soccer (of course, superlative mile times are not what soccer players care about, but still).

Yes, I think I can believe a 4:33.  Difference from a 4:15 is probably at least 125 yards to put it in context.

Hopkins92

I just want full credit for reigniting this whole "guy I couldn't name because I don't know what I'm talking about, but he's really fast" conversation.

:D

rudy

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 08:30:31 PM
I just want full credit for reigniting this whole "guy I couldn't name because I don't know what I'm talking about, but he's really fast" conversation.

:D

Yes this long discussion is all your fault... you get full credit.. I can even give +k's now so I'm going to give you a deserved +k

truenorth

Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'm an aging runner and Nordic skier and I completely agree with this assessment.  It's highly improbable any soccer player, no matter how athletically talented, would come into preseason and run a 4:15 mile.  That's more akin to the raw talent that a Kenyan or Ethiopian 16 year old might possess who puts on running shoes for the first time.

As you say, there's a huge difference between 4:45 and 4:30 for a runner who is fit and specifically trained, and an even huger difference between 4:30 and 4:15.  A 4:15 coming out of high school puts you onto the radar of many top D1 running programs, particularly if you come from a state with underdeveloped talent (Maine vs. California as an example).

bestfancle

Quote from: truenorth on November 21, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'm an aging runner and Nordic skier and I completely agree with this assessment.  It's highly improbable any soccer player, no matter how athletically talented, would come into preseason and run a 4:15 mile.  That's more akin to the raw talent that a Kenyan or Ethiopian 16 year old might possess who puts on running shoes for the first time.

As you say, there's a huge difference between 4:45 and 4:30 for a runner who is fit and specifically trained, and an even huger difference between 4:30 and 4:15.  A 4:15 coming out of high school puts you onto the radar of many top D1 running programs, particularly if you come from a state with underdeveloped talent (Maine vs. California as an example).

To add to this (myself being a 5:15 runner, on a good day), I had a teammate who ran at UCLA before transferring to my school because he really just wanted to play soccer and be closer to home. He said he ran a 4:13 his freshman year at UCLA, but when he transferred and decided to play soccer he said there was no way he could keep that pace. Due to training and the obvious changes between division 1 and division 3 athletics. He ran like a 4:35 and blew away everyone else on the team, but still wasn't at his true track form.

rudy

Quote from: bestfancle on November 21, 2017, 08:53:52 AM
Quote from: truenorth on November 21, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'm an aging runner and Nordic skier and I completely agree with this assessment.  It's highly improbable any soccer player, no matter how athletically talented, would come into preseason and run a 4:15 mile.  That's more akin to the raw talent that a Kenyan or Ethiopian 16 year old might possess who puts on running shoes for the first time.

As you say, there's a huge difference between 4:45 and 4:30 for a runner who is fit and specifically trained, and an even huger difference between 4:30 and 4:15.  A 4:15 coming out of high school puts you onto the radar of many top D1 running programs, particularly if you come from a state with underdeveloped talent (Maine vs. California as an example).

To add to this (myself being a 5:15 runner, on a good day), I had a teammate who ran at UCLA before transferring to my school because he really just wanted to play soccer and be closer to home. He said he ran a 4:13 his freshman year at UCLA, but when he transferred and decided to play soccer he said there was no way he could keep that pace. Due to training and the obvious changes between division 1 and division 3 athletics. He ran like a 4:35 and blew away everyone else on the team, but still wasn't at his true track form.

As I clarified already..he ran a 4:33 this preseason. That's the accurate time. Not sure what his times have been for earlier seasons.

rudy

#474
The last time the final 4 was held at UNC Greensboro NC was in 2008:  Messiah 1 vs Stevens Institute 1 (Messiah won in PK's).  Oddly enough Messiah just played Stevens Institute in the Sweet 16.  Messiah has won 3 championships in Greensboro..2008, 2005, and 2004...every year it was hosted by UNC in Greensboro since they started winning titles in 2000.   So either the streak will continue or it will be broken!  Looks to be a nice soccer only stadium..bermuda grass, good drainage system, etc.   Best of luck to all the teams and fans here.

Modified per FW correction..

Flying Weasel

The Final Fours were NOT hosted by UNC-Greensboro in any of those prior years. Those three Final Fours were played at Macpherson Stadium in Bryan Park to the northeast of Greensboro.  I think the hosts in 2004 and 2005 were Greensboro College and the Greensboro Sports Commission.  It may have been the same in 2008.

Ejay

Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

not many outsiders even realize how impressive that is... anything under 5 is crazy


It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

There's a HS sophomore in my town who played in the DA two years ago but left because he wanted to play HS soccer instead.  He also runs HS winter/indoor track.  His 1 mile PR is 4:50 which I imagine will come down to ~4:30 by Sr. year, and if he switched to XC I'd guess he could get it down even further. But he wants to play soccer in college and has the talent to easily play at a highly competitive D3. I don't think he's an anomaly and I imagine there are several college players who are running 4:30-4:45 if you asked around.

rudy

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 21, 2017, 03:40:17 PM
The Final Fours were NOT hosted by UNC-Greensboro in any of those prior years. Those three Final Fours were played at Macpherson Stadium in Bryan Park to the northeast of Greensboro.  I think the hosts in 2004 and 2005 were Greensboro College and the Greensboro Sports Commission.  It may have been the same in 2008.

Ok but it was in Greensboro NC. Close enough. 

rudy

Post game interview with Messiah after the UR game..Nick West, coach, and goalie Connor Bell.   I noticed some teams posted links to post game interviews but not all are easy to find.   Someone mentioned a Tufts post game interview for example.  Not sure how consistently  these are done in the sweet 16 and beyond games??  Figure someone might be interested in this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8HAFv-axSM

Mr.Right

I think Chicago's incredibly tough road to the Final 4 will have big benefits next weekend. Their dispatching of Calvin and Emory was impressive and surely they will have a sour taste in their mouth from losing to this North Park side earlier in the year. They have the best striker in D3, a creative playmaker in midfield in Koh and some skill on the flanks with Adeosun. My only question would have to be their backline and in net. Emory did not have many dangerous chances that I remember except for the first 15 minutes of the 2nd Half when they came out flying but died out just as fast. I remember one 30 yard hit that the Chicago GK easily should have caught but he bobbled it and gave them a free corner. I think Chicago's CB's are very good I just question those wingbacks who Emory did not have a problem beating and the GK who IMO is very questionable from the games I have seen. He makes a couple fantastic saves a game but makes just as many questionable decisions each game. That all being said they have enough going forward to cause any team problems and can play physical and/or technical all game. I think they dispatch of North Park rather easily 2-0 and do not give them many sniffs on net