FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

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DPU3619

I'm with bashbro on Wooster. I think Witt handles this fairly easily.

The Bell game may have implications anyway because of 3 way tie potential. Bash beat Witt. Witt beat DePauw. Assuming the concerned parties all win out the rest of the way, you've got all 3 with 1 loss at the top if DePauw wins the Bell.

I do realize that DePauw winning the Bell is a pretty large if at this point. As my Dad used to say, if a frog had wings, he wouldn't have to bump his ass on the ground all the time.

That would make for a pretty interesting Pool C conversation, too. Somebody gets the A and the other 2 would be sitting at 9-1.

bashgiant

Quote from: Old Pal Wes on October 17, 2014, 03:13:51 AM
I'm with bashbro on Wooster. I think Witt handles this fairly easily.

The Bell game may have implications anyway because of 3 way tie potential. Bash beat Witt. Witt beat DePauw. Assuming the concerned parties all win out the rest of the way, you've got all 3 with 1 loss at the top if DePauw wins the Bell.

I do realize that DePauw winning the Bell is a pretty large if at this point. As my Dad used to say, if a frog had wings, he wouldn't have to bump his ass on the ground all the time.

That would make for a pretty interesting Pool C conversation, too. Somebody gets the A and the other 2 would be sitting at 9-1.

I would rather not go there. Wabash hasn't faired to well the last couple years when it comes to pool C. Take care of business LG's!!!! One play at a time!
GO BASH!

wabndy

Quote from: Old Pal Wes on October 17, 2014, 03:13:51 AM
That would make for a pretty interesting Pool C conversation, too. Somebody gets the A and the other 2 would be sitting at 9-1.
Unless we have a really down year nationwide, I don't see any realistic Pool C tickets for the NCAC.  When we've gotten them in the past, there were more pool C bids available.  Had we had 6 tickets last year, Wabash would have almost certainly been in.  I believe we are still at 5 this year, right?  With a 9 game round robin, there just isn't much of an opportunity for the league to play a good non-conference schedule.  That drags our SOS numbers down compared to other leagues that have two or three non-conference games.  We went 5-4 in nonconference games against D3 opponents.  Witt does us no favors in this department by scheduling a non D3 opponent.  Those D3 opponents are right now a combined 20-29.  Assuming HSC keeps their run and is regionally ranked (an easier feat in the East), Wabash will have the only non-conference win against an RRO.  There is still plenty of football to be played, but nobody in the NCAC should expect it.
As for DePauw, I don't think anyone at Wabash is at all surprised that DePauw would rise up and become a conference title contender.  These last few years (I get the feeling that images of Coach Long still haunt Ole Pal Wes' nightmares) have been a major abberation to a storied program.  DePauw will be a serious threat this year at the bell game and will be a serious opponent in the future for everyone in the conference.
In the previous ten seasons, the NCAC has had only 2 years with 3 teams to win at least 8 games.  In that same stretch we've had 2 years where only one team has one at least 8 games.  If we are ever going to have any shot at having a reliable Pool C ticket (especially coming out of a loaded north region - not that that is supposed to make any difference), having at least three contenders every year is absolutely essential.

wally_wabash

Quote from: wabndy on October 17, 2014, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: Old Pal Wes on October 17, 2014, 03:13:51 AM
That would make for a pretty interesting Pool C conversation, too. Somebody gets the A and the other 2 would be sitting at 9-1.
Unless we have a really down year nationwide, I don't see any realistic Pool C tickets for the NCAC. 

I think that's really kind of a narrow view that the NCAC won't have a shot at an at-large bid.  What got Wabash last year was that there was enough quality in the North region that the NCAC couldn't get a third team into the rankings.  I don't see that kind of depth this year.  I believe the NCAC will have three teams regionally ranked, which is going to give somebody an RRO result that wasn't available last year when the OAC and the CCIW.  That one RRO result is probably the difference between Wabash being selected in 2013 and Wabash not being selected.

I know we've sort of become accustomed to poo-pooing how good the NCAC is.  But as I look one state to the West and one state the East, and the two "power" leagues that inhabit those states don't really stand out to me as being that much better than the NCAC amongst the top 4-5 teams in each league.  We're doing better here in the NCAC than people think. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

smedindy

The CCIW's only going to get two RRs, I think, thanks to IWU. OAC probably gets three unless 'Berg doesn't do well. I think the HCAC and MIAA get one each, maybe. We won't have a situation like we did a few years ago where a Chicago - Concordia grabbed a spot. There's three slots for the NCAC unless chaos ensues.

wabndy

#29180
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 17, 2014, 11:12:39 AM
I know we've sort of become accustomed to poo-pooing how good the NCAC is.  But as I look one state to the West and one state the East, and the two "power" leagues that inhabit those states don't really stand out to me as being that much better than the NCAC amongst the top 4-5 teams in each league.  We're doing better here in the NCAC than people think.
I do agree that it will be helpful on the RRO front that by the time the first set of rankings come out, Witt, Wabash, and DePauw should have a combined 1 loss to a D3 opponent between the three of them.  One of the things I've never gotten a clear answer on is in the regional ranking criteria, a win against an RRO is supposed to be a good thing regardless of what region that comes out of, right?  Assuming HSC is regionally ranked in the east south, the north region committee won't be able to consider that until the second round of published regional rankings (unless of course the regions swap draft rankings).  At that point, the wabash-witt game will have been played.  Between rounds one and two, wabash will go from getting no credit for playing any RROs to having played two.   My point is that with a backloaded schedule, even if we do land all three in the regional rankings, they may very well not be very high in the first round of rankings. 
FWIW - regional contender SOS rankings (thus far): 
31. Heidelberg (4-1)
36. Wabash (5-0)
39. North Central (4-1)
54. Mount Union (5-0)
61. Illinois Wesleyan (3-2)
64. John Carroll (5-0)
75. Albion (3-2)
96. Wittenberg (4-0)* (4-1)
128. Trine (4-1)
105. Chicago (5-0)
135. Franklin (4-2)
174. Adrian (4-1)
200. DePauw (4-1)
218. Rose-Hulman (4-1)
222. Wheaton (5-0)
223. Mt. St. Joseph (5-1)

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: wabndy on October 17, 2014, 12:29:25 PM
One of the things I've never gotten a clear answer on is in the regional ranking criteria, a win against an RRO is supposed to be a good thing regardless of what region that comes out of, right?  Assuming HSC is regionally ranked in the east, the north region committee won't be able to consider that until the second round of published regional rankings (unless of course the regions swap draft rankings). 

Minor correction: HSC is in the South, not the East.

The problem you've highlighted is something we often wonder: how can the regions weigh results against regionally ranked opponents when they don't know the other region's rankings yet?  This also goes for the "final" RRO's, too.  If the final RR's are never released, how do we know what the final playoff resumes looked like? 
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

wally_wabash

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 17, 2014, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: wabndy on October 17, 2014, 12:29:25 PM
One of the things I've never gotten a clear answer on is in the regional ranking criteria, a win against an RRO is supposed to be a good thing regardless of what region that comes out of, right?  Assuming HSC is regionally ranked in the east, the north region committee won't be able to consider that until the second round of published regional rankings (unless of course the regions swap draft rankings). 

Minor correction: HSC is in the South, not the East.

The problem you've highlighted is something we often wonder: how can the regions weigh results against regionally ranked opponents when they don't know the other region's rankings yet?  This also goes for the "final" RRO's, too.  If the final RR's are never released, how do we know what the final playoff resumes looked like?

I think if Hampden-Sydney is 7-1 at the time of the first regional rankings, Wabash will get appropriate credit.  Smart people on that North RAC.  And if Wabash has to wait a week to get credit, that's fine so long as they get appropriate credit immediately after week 11. 

But even with or without credit for beating Hampden-Sydney, where are all of these great wins from other teams in the North region?  North Central has the Platteville win which is nice (but they'll be in the same "does it count for anything extra until we see the West's rankings" limbo).  Outside of that, there's really not a lot of game results out there that would force you to rank somebody ahead of Wabash or Witt at the moment. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

smedindy

Did they drop the 'once ranked, always ranked'? I can't remember with this and basketball...

wabndy

Quote from: smedindy on October 17, 2014, 02:40:26 PM
Did they drop the 'once ranked, always ranked'? I can't remember with this and basketball...
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/PreChamp_DIII_Football_2014-15_Revised.pdf
Page 21: "Results versus regionally ranked Division III teams as established by the rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included;"
I would read this to mean that the only regional rankings that actually count in the results against RRO are the final unpublished rankings.  The 2014 manual does not include the language that appeared in the 2012 handbook that said "opponents are considered ranked once they appear one time in the sport's official rankings."


BashBacker#16

Guys,

Sorry but I have to comment on some of the recent "DePauw is back" remarks.  They are improved I will give them that but let's relax a little bit with the "if DePauw wins the Bell" or Wabndy's "DPU...would rise up and become a conference title contender."  Are they improved?  Ya.  How much?  Who the hell knows.  I just looked at their 4 wins.  Yuck.  Wins over Sewanee (1-5, 0-2 in their league), Kenyon (0-5, 0-4), Denison (2-4, 1-4), and Oberlin (1-4, 1-3).  So, their wins are over opponents with a combined record of 4-18.  They beat Kenyon 24-0.

Someone even mentioned Hunt as one of the best QB's in the league.  Are you serious?  What?  Why? 

Coach Lynch is really good, I know that but he still has a ways to go.  I'm not bashing the Dannies just merely making the point we need to relax a bit.  3 way tie in the league?  I am very interested in seeing the OWU/DePauw result this Saturday.  Sidenote; I couldn't name more than 3 players on their entire roster.

wally_wabash

Quote from: wabndy on October 17, 2014, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 17, 2014, 02:40:26 PM
Did they drop the 'once ranked, always ranked'? I can't remember with this and basketball...
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/PreChamp_DIII_Football_2014-15_Revised.pdf
Page 21: "Results versus regionally ranked Division III teams as established by the rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included;"
I would read this to mean that the only regional rankings that actually count in the results against RRO are the final unpublished rankings.  The 2014 manual does not include the language that appeared in the 2012 handbook that said "opponents are considered ranked once they appear one time in the sport's official rankings."


I know they did drop ORAR last year, and I don't like it.  That's a separate conversation though. 

Quote from: BashBacker#16 on October 17, 2014, 04:15:47 PM
Guys,

Sorry but I have to comment on some of the recent "DePauw is back" remarks.  They are improved I will give them that but let's relax a little bit with the "if DePauw wins the Bell" or Wabndy's "DPU...would rise up and become a conference title contender."  Are they improved?  Ya.  How much?  Who the hell knows.  I just looked at their 4 wins.  Yuck.  Wins over Sewanee (1-5, 0-2 in their league), Kenyon (0-5, 0-4), Denison (2-4, 1-4), and Oberlin (1-4, 1-3).  So, their wins are over opponents with a combined record of 4-18.  They beat Kenyon 24-0.

Someone even mentioned Hunt as one of the best QB's in the league.  Are you serious?  What?  Why? 

Coach Lynch is really good, I know that but he still has a ways to go.  I'm not bashing the Dannies just merely making the point we need to relax a bit.  3 way tie in the league?  I am very interested in seeing the OWU/DePauw result this Saturday.  Sidenote; I couldn't name more than 3 players on their entire roster.

All true that DePauw hasn't beaten anybody good yet.  And maybe we are getting a little carried away, but I would offer up the following:
- They've beaten three teams they lost to in 2013
- They've turned scores around in a massive way: Points DePauw has gained on their margins year over year 2013 to 2014: +21 vs. Sewanee, +28 vs. Witt, +26 vs. Kenyon, +33 vs. Denison.  Through those first four games, DePauw was four touchdowns better in 2014. 

I'm with you, the big test here is going to be how they do with OWU (who isn't great but good enough to expose a pretender) and Wooster in a couple of weeks.  Get through those two with wins, and DePauw is very legitimately in the playoff conversation. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

HCAlum86

Outside of our beloved conference...

Am I the only one this year who has seen John Carroll play? In my humble opinion, they are by far the best team in the state of Ohio. Myers will find himself on an NFL roster next year and the people he has around him could (and some of them have) be playing at higher level schools.

Interesting team to watch this year, I really believe that whoever wins the matchup btwn them and Mount will lose in the playoff rematch. I could easily see the Blue Streaks as a semi-final team this year.
July 13, 1904
Hiram College wins the inter-collegiate basketball world championship at the World's Fair Universal Exposition Olympic Games in St. Louis, Missouri. Final score: Hiram, 25; Latter Day Saints University, 18.

BashDad

Hunt is definitely one of the best QBs in the league. Watch any series and you'll see that.

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: HCAlum86 on October 17, 2014, 06:15:50 PM
Outside of our beloved conference...

Am I the only one this year who has seen John Carroll play? In my humble opinion, they are by far the best team in the state of Ohio. Myers will find himself on an NFL roster next year and the people he has around him could (and some of them have) be playing at higher level schools.

Interesting team to watch this year, I really believe that whoever wins the matchup btwn them and Mount will lose in the playoff rematch. I could easily see the Blue Streaks as a semi-final team this year.

Bold talk, there.

I think JCU might well push Mount, but "by far the best team in the state of Ohio" has to be earned by actually beating them.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa