NESCAC

Started by LaPaz, September 11, 2011, 05:54:52 PM

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frank uible

If the possession of ego were a felony, think of the almost countless interesting and useful people who would end up behind bars - politicians, tycoons, sports and other entertainment figures for starters.

lastguyoffthebench

#691
Quote from: NCAC New England on August 05, 2014, 10:02:25 PM
LaPaz, I think you're out on a limb on this one.  You're going to base your opinion on OWU on one game in 1998 and your negative perception of Martin?  Regardless of what you think of him, OWU is arguably the #1 program in history and certainly no worse than #3.  I don't know about '98, but at least in recent years they have played a very attractive, possession-oriented style and on the field look more like Messiah than any other D3.  Have you looked at OWU's historical record over a 30 year period?


1.  Messiah (603-94-34 since joining DIII in 81; 10 titles)
2.  OWU (40 consecutive winning seasons)
3.  Trinity
4.  Williams
5.  Wheaton

All NESCAC

Quote from: NCAC New England on July 12, 2014, 09:31:29 PM
1.  Amherst -- Too strong and motivation will be consistently high with bitterly disappointing ends to last 2 seasons
2.  Middlebury -- Strong young talent matured with team that was close to breaking through last year
3.  Tufts -- Very talented team will fluctuate between some strong results and a couple of letdown moments
4.  Williams -- Good team but luck will go the other way this year as pressure of Russo's swan song works against them (or they will win league and bow out early in NCAAs, unless of course they beat Brandeis and Amherst back-to-back for 3rd year in a row)
5.  Wesleyan -- Not quite as strong and will fight and claw to be in the mix for the last NESCAC NCAA bid
6.  Conn College -- Good enough to fight for mid-stable spot but still not strong enough to break through into top 3
7.  Bowdoin -- Rebuilding but still good enough for favorable results against the bottom 4
8.  Trinity -- Difficult year and a step back after nearly breaking through prior couple of years (basically Conn College and Trinity reversing traditional roles)
9.  Hamilton -- Most unknown and toughest to gauge and maybe most likely for modest upside surprise
10. Bates -- Not good, but slightly more determined than Colby to pull out a couple of results
11. Colby -- Nice kids but roster is weak and not much reason to expect improvement in first year after coaching legend moves on

In terms of teams who may spoil another NESCAC entry in the final four, watch out for SLU this year.  Also Rochester, Hobart, Brandeis, maybe Union, and my sleeper is Wheaton.

How many of the NESCAC teams do a Pre-pre-season (captains practices get together--no coaches only the players) before the actual sanctioned pre-season begins?  I know of two who do....just wondering if this is a common theme throughout the NESCAC and other D3's?

LaPaz

ITS VERY COMMON....because of the shortened pre-seasons, and MIDD I believe got caught a couple years ago as players were on Facebook about it.


LaPaz

never said ego was a crime, just not a fan of self-promoters and he is one. If you want to start a new thread for Martin, I will post EGO and then let you people gush on every other post and leave it at that

frank uible

Don't know Martin and hold no brief for or against him. Consequently have nothing to say about him.

Saint of Old

Name a soccer coach who has won a national championship who does not possess an EGO or SHEGO (in the woman's game).
It takes supreme confidence to play our game well, and even more to manage supremely confident athletes.

I'm normally with you Lapaz, but not here. As a matter of fact.

One man's self confidence comes off to another as an ego.

In fact, i'm sure most of us have beens were criticized for having big ego's during our playing/coaching careers!

MidwestAficionado

Quote from: LaPaz on August 07, 2014, 02:14:09 PM
ITS VERY COMMON....because of the shortened pre-seasons, and MIDD I believe got caught a couple years ago as players were on Facebook about it.

And there is nothing illegal about it unless there is coach involvement... so unless Middlebury had coaches instructing or orchestrating these, not sure how they could get caught for voluntary, student organized workouts

All NESCAC

Quote from: MidwestAficionado on August 07, 2014, 04:45:05 PM
Quote from: LaPaz on August 07, 2014, 02:14:09 PM
ITS VERY COMMON....because of the shortened pre-seasons, and MIDD I believe got caught a couple years ago as players were on Facebook about it.

And there is nothing illegal about it unless there is coach involvement... so unless Middlebury had coaches instructing or orchestrating these, not sure how they could get caught for voluntary, student organized workouts

Given that a number of the NESCAC rosters are filled with players from around the country/world it would seem to be a difficult position to be in as a player who, (ie. for legitimate financial reasons or timing), could not attend these pre-pre-season captains practices/camps given the cost of flight/travel/accommodations/missing work just to get back to New England or timing of when the practices/camp is held.  They are just "wink wink" captains practices, but the coaches certainly know who is and who is not in attendance and knowing some/most of these coaches it would be a big negative not to attend, even for legitimate reasons.  Amazes me that NESCAC teams do this given the league's "mission statement"....understand why some teams/coaches would push the envelope for it (just like an arms race if they do it we must), but seems to fly in the face of what the league is supposed to be about.  It's pressure enough for the players having "so called voluntary" captains training for the entire 6 months of off season while your on campus, but to "strongly suggest" they should travel/pay for a pre-pre-season off campus must be a difficult decision/position to be in for some players/families.   

madzillagd

On the basketball side I've argued that the rule to start practice 2 weeks after the rest of the country does more harm than good.  Guys are still doing open gyms for those two weeks but instead of having coaching where you are often doing drills, taking breaks, etc. there is no one there to stop them from playing for 3+ hours if they choose.  Increases chances of injury and they don't do more studying because they are in the gym for the same amount of time or more than if they had practice.

All NESCAC

Quote from: madzillagd on August 08, 2014, 01:17:00 PM
On the basketball side I've argued that the rule to start practice 2 weeks after the rest of the country does more harm than good.  Guys are still doing open gyms for those two weeks but instead of having coaching where you are often doing drills, taking breaks, etc. there is no one there to stop them from playing for 3+ hours if they choose.  Increases chances of injury and they don't do more studying because they are in the gym for the same amount of time or more than if they had practice.

Don't disagree regarding your basketball example (good example),  but at least it's on campus and during the school year.  The soccer pre-pre-season is somewhere off-campus and not during school year, thus a lot of pressure to put on the student athlete if they have to afford/fit in an extra trip to New England if they are not from this area.

1970s NESCAC Player

All NESCAC:  I think you are off a bit here.  The NESCAC preseason is so short (1 week this year) that the kids are just trying to get together for a bit more bonding and fitness before the first game.  The purpose is not for the coach to see who attends and who doesn't.  And few, if any, NESCAC coaches will make playing time decisions based upon who attends the pre-pre.  The best and fittest players are going to play the most once the season starts, regardless whether they attended pre-pre.

All NESCAC

Quote from: Colbyunion on August 09, 2014, 03:39:29 PM
All NESCAC:  I think you are off a bit here.  The NESCAC preseason is so short (1 week this year) that the kids are just trying to get together for a bit more bonding and fitness before the first game.  The purpose is not for the coach to see who attends and who doesn't.  And few, if any, NESCAC coaches will make playing time decisions based upon who attends the pre-pre.  The best and fittest players are going to play the most once the season starts, regardless whether they attended pre-pre.

Would like to believe you are correct ColbyUnion, and do agree that ultimately the "best and fittest players are going to play", however once a coach puts a "negative" mark next to a player's name (for whatever reason....even for not attending the pre-pre-season....ie)the player is put in the bucket of "you're not sacrificing for the TEAM"), then if all other factors are equal when comparing two players competing for the same position, but one could not attend the pre-pre-season "voluntary" workouts that could be the deciding factor. But there is pressure put on the players to attend the pre-pre-season.   Issue is no different then I  suppose being a Science major and having timing schedule trouble with labs and practice....publically the coach will say academics come first, but privately he's very upset because the student athlete had to miss or be late for practice due to academic conflict.  Just a way of life in the NESCAC's I suppose....if they had a typical pre-season of at least 2 full weeks then there would be no need for a pre-pre-season mini camp.  That said, most of the NESCAC coaches now do try to treat their programs more like D1, than treating them like the bulk of D3, yet the Coaches seem to forget that these student/athletes are not on any athletic scholarship.  It's a very interesting dynamic within the league now on the soccer side as so many of the teams recently (last 4or 5 years) have attempted to upgrade their soccer programs (coaches/facilities) to catch Williams/Amherst.  Good because there is some tremendous soccer now being played throughout the league and most, if not all, league games are highly competitive.  However, not so good because similar to D1 it's a year round commitment for most of these teams/players which was not necessarily the case for many of these teams 6+ years ago.  Of course the option of "not to play" is always there for the student/athlete.  Moving past this issue and looking forward to this coming 2014 season.

MidwestAficionado

Quote from: All NESCAC on August 11, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: Colbyunion on August 09, 2014, 03:39:29 PM
All NESCAC:  I think you are off a bit here.  The NESCAC preseason is so short (1 week this year) that the kids are just trying to get together for a bit more bonding and fitness before the first game.  The purpose is not for the coach to see who attends and who doesn't.  And few, if any, NESCAC coaches will make playing time decisions based upon who attends the pre-pre.  The best and fittest players are going to play the most once the season starts, regardless whether they attended pre-pre.

Would like to believe you are correct ColbyUnion, and do agree that ultimately the "best and fittest players are going to play", however once a coach puts a "negative" mark next to a player's name (for whatever reason....even for not attending the pre-pre-season....ie)the player is put in the bucket of "you're not sacrificing for the TEAM"), then if all other factors are equal when comparing two players competing for the same position, but one could not attend the pre-pre-season "voluntary" workouts that could be the deciding factor. But there is pressure put on the players to attend the pre-pre-season.   Issue is no different then I  suppose being a Science major and having timing schedule trouble with labs and practice....publically the coach will say academics come first, but privately he's very upset because the student athlete had to miss or be late for practice due to academic conflict.  Just a way of life in the NESCAC's I suppose....if they had a typical pre-season of at least 2 full weeks then there would be no need for a pre-pre-season mini camp.  That said, most of the NESCAC coaches now do try to treat their programs more like D1, than treating them like the bulk of D3, yet the Coaches seem to forget that these student/athletes are not on any athletic scholarship.  It's a very interesting dynamic within the league now on the soccer side as so many of the teams recently (last 4or 5 years) have attempted to upgrade their soccer programs (coaches/facilities) to catch Williams/Amherst.  Good because there is some tremendous soccer now being played throughout the league and most, if not all, league games are highly competitive.  However, not so good because similar to D1 it's a year round commitment for most of these teams/players which was not necessarily the case for many of these teams 6+ years ago.  Of course the option of "not to play" is always there for the student/athlete.  Moving past this issue and looking forward to this coming 2014 season.

This is very laden with assumptions and we know where those get us... if you are fit and can help the team win games, you're going to get on the field. Regardless of outside factors, pre-preseason attendance, what have you. Most D3 kids get 9-10 days of preseason before school starts. Many of these days are laden with orientation, meetings, exhibitions, etc. Its not like the NESCAC is singular in this issue of a very limited preseason.

I think it is great that the kids take the initiative to invest more time in their game than what is required of them. If they do the same with their career and family once they are done with college, they will be good citizens and have good lives. If they just settled for the bare minimum and then blamed other reasons for their lack of results, that would be a bad thing.

nescac1

Pre-season rankings out, Amherst 3, Williams 6, no one else in NESCAC earns a mention.  These rankings, though, generally closely correspond with how teams finished last year, so they are of limited value. 

http://www.nscaatv.com/rankings/3112/NCAADivisionIII/men/PreseasonPoll