TOP 25

Started by short, July 11, 2008, 10:56:29 PM

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Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on December 17, 2012, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 17, 2012, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
North Central beat 8 on the road (with a flight included) and Elmhurst beat 10 on the road. Elmhurst played St. Thomas tougher than anyone who didn't win the national title. North Central beat Elmhurst handily in the regular season. That's the basic rundown of how they got in this order.

But historically, early season games get discounted at the final pool from what I've seen.  And the played them tougher argument also hasn't always held except vs. MUC (maybe UWW, but not a team that was predicted to lose by 2-3td's and did - good though they may have been).

In looking at seasons, I'd have a harder time with Bethel having jumped up as much as they have than some of the others.  #7 to #10 or #11 you can move around generally behind the top 6.  I would've probably bumped Platteville and Wittenberg up ahead of Bethel and Salisbury.

My thoughts exactly on Bethel. I would definitely put Platteville ahead of them.

I know I'm in the minority here, but outside of St. Thomas, I didn't buy into the MIAC much this year.

On my fan ballot, I had UWP all the way up at 7 (probably too high, but so be it ;)).

As to NCC, the demolition of Elmhurst was not THAT early - week five.  As to the loss to Linfield, NCC had a history of occasionally making lots of TOs, some unforced.  Against LaX, it cost them the game; against Cal Lu, they had four, but were sufficiently better overall to still win comfortably; against Linfield, SEVEN TOs was way too much to overcome.  (NCC/Elmhurst WAS still early enough, that my ballot (placing heavier emphasis on the playoffs) had Elmhurst 8 and NCC 9.)

SUADC

#661
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on December 17, 2012, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 17, 2012, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
North Central beat 8 on the road (with a flight included) and Elmhurst beat 10 on the road. Elmhurst played St. Thomas tougher than anyone who didn't win the national title. North Central beat Elmhurst handily in the regular season. That's the basic rundown of how they got in this order.

But historically, early season games get discounted at the final pool from what I've seen.  And the played them tougher argument also hasn't always held except vs. MUC (maybe UWW, but not a team that was predicted to lose by 2-3td's and did - good though they may have been).

In looking at seasons, I'd have a harder time with Bethel having jumped up as much as they have than some of the others.  #7 to #10 or #11 you can move around generally behind the top 6.  I would've probably bumped Platteville and Wittenberg up ahead of Bethel and Salisbury.

My thoughts exactly on Bethel. I would definitely put Platteville ahead of them.

I know I'm in the minority here, but outside of St. Thomas, I didn't buy into the MIAC much this year.

Honestly, IMHO anything outside the top 5, is trivial. However, looking at Bethel and UW-P, they both lost to a great UW-O by comparable margins. As for Salisbury, only thing you can say is that they beat a team that beat another team that beat UW-P, only way to look at it. Again, outside the top 5 (6), you can say if any of those remaining teams play each other, each has about a 50% chance of winning, holding everthing else (weather, travel, etc...) equal.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: pumkinattack on December 17, 2012, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
North Central beat 8 on the road (with a flight included) and Elmhurst beat 10 on the road. Elmhurst played St. Thomas tougher than anyone who didn't win the national title. North Central beat Elmhurst handily in the regular season. That's the basic rundown of how they got in this order.

But historically, early season games get discounted at the final pool from what I've seen.  And the played them tougher argument also hasn't always held except vs. MUC (maybe UWW, but not a team that was predicted to lose by 2-3td's and did - good though they may have been).

In looking at seasons, I'd have a harder time with Bethel having jumped up as much as they have than some of the others.  #7 to #10 or #11 you can move around generally behind the top 6.  I would've probably bumped Platteville and Wittenberg up ahead of Bethel and Salisbury.

That's already a big jump for Wittenberg.

02: Regardless of how much you buy into the WIAC, the conference did go 21-3 in non-conference games this year, including the playoffs.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

hazzben

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on December 17, 2012, 03:33:53 PM
I know I'm in the minority here, but outside of St. Thomas, I didn't buy into the MIAC much this year.

That's ok 02, I don't buy into the WIAC much this year  ;) :)

wildcat11

Quote from: wesleydad on December 17, 2012, 10:14:40 AM
Oshkosh beats Linfield so they should be ahead of them.  Does wesley playing umhb tough put them above Linfield?  It is all opinion and not hard to justify any of the placings to me.

Linfield/Wesley is a toss up and could have gone either way.  One thing that wasn't discussed at all regarding Linfield/Oshkosh is the fact Linfield lost the West Region Defensive player of the year (Dom Forrest) early in the game.  In fact, when Forrest went out UWO broke off two huge runs for their first TD.  Usually you play the "what if they didn't get hurt" game with offensive players but Forrest was a HUGE play-maker this season for the 'Cats defense.  That was a giant loss for Linfield in that game.

02 Warhawk

Quote from: hazzben on December 17, 2012, 06:02:08 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on December 17, 2012, 03:33:53 PM
I know I'm in the minority here, but outside of St. Thomas, I didn't buy into the MIAC much this year.

That's ok 02, I don't buy into the WIAC much this year  ;) :)

Fair enough  :D

Ralph Turner

I am bringing back the old Top 25 board.

In week #3, UMHB received 19 first place votes and 618 votes overall.

That means they were given

19 (first place votes) times 25  = 475
5 (second place votes) times 24= 120
1 (third place vote) times     23 =   23

Total                                            618 votes
                                                   

wesleydad

interesting that Wesley keeps dropping.  They will be the best team in the east when it all plays out but as usual they lose an early season game.  2 Weeks will tell.  Frostburg on the 7th. 

wesleydad

So Stout beats st thomas who beats st johns rather easily, dont care about the score game was not close and stout sits at 22 while the other 2 teams sit at 8 and 10.  HMMMMMMM.

Ralph Turner

#669
Quote from: wesleydad on September 24, 2017, 07:02:58 PM
So Stout beats st thomas who beats st johns rather easily, dont care about the score game was not close and stout sits at 22 while the other 2 teams sit at 8 and 10.  HMMMMMMM.
We all do it when we consider ballots. It is legacy hold-over. The Tommies and Johnnies are known quantities. It would take a pretty big stumble for the Johnnies to fall much further.  In fact Platteville could beat Stout by a TD and I will still keep Stout in the Top 25.

As for the Johnnies and Pool C, I need them to pick up another loss!



Disclaimer.  I am not a voter in the Top 25.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: wesleydad on September 24, 2017, 07:02:58 PM
So Stout beats st thomas who beats st johns rather easily, dont care about the score game was not close and stout sits at 22 while the other 2 teams sit at 8 and 10.  HMMMMMMM.

Stout also has not played since. Literally -- has had two off weeks. It's hard to prove much from the sidelines. Besides, Stout has a bunch of tough games left -- voters are waiting to see what happens. Stout has a bunch of opportunities to play its way up the ladder.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

smedindy

It takes some time for 'outsider' programs to move in - see also Denison.

Pat Coleman

I don't see any reason to vote for Denison now based on what they've done and what they have coming up.

Denison (3-0) Last week: # votes: 1 ()   
Sep. 2   7:00 PM   Southwestern (2-2) •   W, 49-31
Sep. 16   3:00 PM   at Allegheny (1-3) * •   W, 62-26
Sep. 23   1:00 PM   Oberlin (2-2) * •   W, 45-17
Sep. 30   7:00 PM   at Wittenberg (3-0) * •   
Oct. 7   1:00 PM   at Wabash (3-0) * •   
Oct. 14   1:00 PM   DePauw (3-0) * •   
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

smedindy

That kind of solidifies their outsider status, Pat. A team that normally makes the playoffs and is ranked probably is ranked with that slate.

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: smedindy on September 25, 2017, 08:25:18 PM
That kind of solidifies their outsider status, Pat. A team that normally makes the playoffs and is ranked probably is ranked with that slate.

PERHAPS.  But with those three games coming up in the next three weeks, why push it.  If they go 2-1, they are definitely top 25; if they go 3-0, they should be top 10!  Right now, they seem awfully promising, but not necessarily higher than #30-40.  (BTW, on my national fan ballot I put them #25; and #6 on my north regional ballot.)

And they SHOULD so far have outsider status.  A team that regularly makes the playoffs and is ranked quite correctly gets the benefit of the doubt until better data comes in.  Only fairly rarely do PROGRAMS make huge lurches up or down.