New England Soccer Discussion

Started by Jim Matson, June 09, 2006, 12:25:06 AM

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Brother Flounder

Quote from: NCAC New England on December 11, 2014, 05:11:25 PM
BF, just curious.  Why are you posting the above in every thread?

Oh..because it was brought up in different threads and I responded

Mr.Right

Brother Flounder do not respond to this. You can post whenever and wherever you want. He is a Nescac hater and is bothering you because of that.

Brother Flounder

Quote from: Mr.Right on December 11, 2014, 09:14:08 PM
Brother Flounder do not respond to this. You can post whenever and wherever you want. He is a Nescac hater and is bothering you because of that.

That's too bad..... I don't bash on his conference.......

PaulNewman

Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 12, 2014, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 11, 2014, 09:14:08 PM
Brother Flounder do not respond to this. You can post whenever and wherever you want. He is a Nescac hater and is bothering you because of that.

That's too bad..... I don't bash on his conference.......

BF, I don't know if you are a 17 year old high school fan, a 50 year old alum, or something in between.  At any rate, let me correct the distortion you are responding to.

I am far from a NESCAC "hater" and I haven't "bashed" on the NESCAC.  I've admitted when I've been wrong which I've seen very few posters do on this site.   I've mostly defended Amherst all year and I have my NESCAC preferences like Wesleyan (mostly because I like the coach).  Even though I posted some negative-sounding posts about Tufts early on, I also noted early on how much talent they had and that if they put it together they would be very dangerous.  Again, easy to forget now, but no one, not even you, thought they were going to win the national title 3-4 weeks ago.  My own kid almost went to a NESCAC.  I've also consistently said, over two years here, that NESCAC is the #1 conference and at worst #2. 

What is true is that I don't idolize the NESCAC.  The regionalization does rub me a bit the wrong way, and as someone already very familiar with all of the NESCAC schools and many of the players, I like seeing some of the attention focused on other areas.  I like hearing stories about incredible kids from a Wartburg or Whitworth or Lynchburg.  This site tends to be dominated by the NESCAC and Messiah, and that was before the NESCAC mania went through the roof over the past couple of weeks.   And I find some of the cheerleading a bit over the top as well as the push to make Tufts the greatest team in history with the idea that they deserve their entire starting 11 as the First Team All-American squad.

The other fellow, most of the time, does provide great information.  He obviously is very knowledgeable and must be somebody in the business or wired in somehow to get some of his stuff.  We can agree to disagree about whether he should be publishing all of those details.  That said, he occasionally gets tweaked by something and never lets go.  His thing with me started with Corazon criticizing the recruiting at Williams and using Kenyon as an example. I actually defended Mr.Right's (then LaPaz) position on that, but he restarted a whole thread with that as half of his lead-in, and then ever since he has reacted to anything said about Kenyon and has gone out of his way to do so.  Case in point, when Calvin was on the ropes in their first game with Rose Hulman he very intentionally commented that OWU would have an easy road to the Elite 8 if Calvin lost which was all just do he could throw another diss out at Kenyon. 

Brother Flounder

#274
Quote from: NCAC New England on December 12, 2014, 06:36:39 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 12, 2014, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 11, 2014, 09:14:08 PM
Brother Flounder do not respond to this. You can post whenever and wherever you want. He is a Nescac hater and is bothering you because of that.

That's too bad..... I don't bash on his conference.......

BF, I don't know if you are a 17 year old high school fan, a 50 year old alum, or something in between.  At any rate, let me correct the distortion you are responding to.

I am far from a NESCAC "hater" and I haven't "bashed" on the NESCAC.  I've admitted when I've been wrong which I've seen very few posters do on this site.   I've mostly defended Amherst all year and I have my NESCAC preferences like Wesleyan (mostly because I like the coach).  Even though I posted some negative-sounding posts about Tufts early on, I also noted early on how much talent they had and that if they put it together they would be very dangerous.  Again, easy to forget now, but no one, not even you, thought they were going to win the national title 3-4 weeks ago.  My own kid almost went to a NESCAC.  I've also consistently said, over two years here, that NESCAC is the #1 conference and at worst #2. 

What is true is that I don't idolize the NESCAC.  The regionalization does rub me a bit the wrong way, and as someone already very familiar with all of the NESCAC schools and many of the players, I like seeing some of the attention focused on other areas.  I like hearing stories about incredible kids from a Wartburg or Whitworth or Lynchburg.  This site tends to be dominated by the NESCAC and Messiah, and that was before the NESCAC mania went through the roof over the past couple of weeks.   And I find some of the cheerleading a bit over the top as well as the push to make Tufts the greatest team in history with the idea that they deserve their entire starting 11 as the First Team All-American squad.

The other fellow, most of the time, does provide great information.  He obviously is very knowledgeable and must be somebody in the business or wired in somehow to get some of his stuff.  We can agree to disagree about whether he should be publishing all of those details.  That said, he occasionally gets tweaked by something and never lets go.  His thing with me started with Corazon criticizing the recruiting at Williams and using Kenyon as an example. I actually defended Mr.Right's (then LaPaz) position on that, but he restarted a whole thread with that as half of his lead-in, and then ever since he has reacted to anything said about Kenyon and has gone out of his way to do so.  Case in point, when Calvin was on the ropes in their first game with Rose Hulman he very intentionally commented that OWU would have an easy road to the Elite 8 if Calvin lost which was all just do he could throw another diss out at Kenyon.

I don't know your history and I really don't care. I was just responding to Mr. Right.  I, for one, did not say all Tufts 11 should be on the first team. I mentioned 2 or 3 more players, which I believe certain merit should be given because of their performance and the NCAA Championship, which is extremely hard to accomplish, especially the way Tufts did it.  Did anyone say more than  a few players deserved it.  I wasn't he only one mentioning these players...Look, I picked Tufts and Bowdoin as darkhorses a few weeks ago because of Tufts all around talent and Bowdoin's performance in the NESCAC playoffs. I was right on one. Maybe you can say I got lucky..but I was right about one of them. I recognized Tufts as an extremely balanced team having lived in Medford and watching them play a few times.  I saw how dangerous Santos was, how Kayne controlled the tempo, how Greenwood stopped shots, etc.....Not many picked Tufts. Sure, I noticed that you didn't think much of Tufts coach to vote him in your top 3.  I didn't respond to my feelings about your choices. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respect them. I don't have to idolize the NESCAC. I watched the Tufts v Messiah game on computer. I know how good Messiah is.  I watched the final four games on computer. Tufts dominated OWU (emptying their bench..when was the last time you saw that so early in a game) and played well enough against Wheaton to win the Championship.

I don't know if you are 17 or 50 or where you exactly stand with the NESCAC or other conferences...and I don't really care...You are entitled to your own opinions.

PaulNewman

BF, before the Final Four I voted Shapiro #4, out of all of the coaches in the country and ahead of notables like the Brandeis and Kenyon coaches.  After the Final Four, I would vote him #1 by a landslide.  At the time I voted, Byrne, Guiliano and Martin weren't bad choices.

A darkhorse pick is different than someone's real #1 pick (unless we have a different understanding of what darkhorse means).  I you keep saying you were right.  What does that mean?  That you are prescient?

And you keep saying you watched the games on the computer.  Most of us did, so I'm not sure what that means either.  That your viewing skills are better?  Don't get it.

blooter442

Quote from: NCAC New England on December 12, 2014, 06:36:39 PM
I am far from a NESCAC "hater" and I haven't "bashed" on the NESCAC.  I've admitted when I've been wrong which I've seen very few posters do on this site.   I've mostly defended Amherst all year and I have my NESCAC preferences like Wesleyan (mostly because I like the coach).  Even though I posted some negative-sounding posts about Tufts early on, I also noted early on how much talent they had and that if they put it together they would be very dangerous.  Again, easy to forget now, but no one, not even you, thought they were going to win the national title 3-4 weeks ago.  My own kid almost went to a NESCAC.  I've also consistently said, over two years here, that NESCAC is the #1 conference and at worst #2. 

Just gonna say that, in my opinion, NCAC is one of the most pragmatic members of this board. And—like myself—he did in fact say that Tufts could be very dangerous if they put it all together. I, too, doubted Tufts, but also recognized that they were a good team and could go on a run if they got it together, which obviously they did. Hindsight is 20/20.

Brother Flounder

Quote from: NCAC New England on December 12, 2014, 07:04:08 PM
BF, before the Final Four I voted Shapiro #4, out of all of the coaches in the country and ahead of notables like the Brandeis and Kenyon coaches.  After the Final Four, I would vote him #1 by a landslide.  At the time I voted, Byrne, Guiliano and Martin weren't bad choices.

A darkhorse pick is different than someone's real #1 pick (unless we have a different understanding of what darkhorse means).  I you keep saying you were right.  What does that mean?  That you are prescient?

And you keep saying you watched the games on the computer.  Most of us did, so I'm not sure what that means either.  That your viewing skills are better?  Don't get it.

I am not going to get into a drawn out argument. It's not worth it to me.  Most everyone would have picked Messiah... I said Tufts was a dark horse, responding to the  thread topic. Not many did that. That is all I am saying. No one has to read anything more into it.  If it makes you feel better, I will say from now on that I saw or watched the games...and leave it at that.  Kind of irrelevant to me but I will now state it in a way that satisfies you...Kind of miniscule stuff but I will adhere.  Go ahead, give me another negative karma.....

Brother Flounder

Quote from: blooter442 on December 12, 2014, 07:06:09 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on December 12, 2014, 06:36:39 PM
I am far from a NESCAC "hater" and I haven't "bashed" on the NESCAC.  I've admitted when I've been wrong which I've seen very few posters do on this site.   I've mostly defended Amherst all year and I have my NESCAC preferences like Wesleyan (mostly because I like the coach).  Even though I posted some negative-sounding posts about Tufts early on, I also noted early on how much talent they had and that if they put it together they would be very dangerous.  Again, easy to forget now, but no one, not even you, thought they were going to win the national title 3-4 weeks ago.  My own kid almost went to a NESCAC.  I've also consistently said, over two years here, that NESCAC is the #1 conference and at worst #2. 

Just gonna say that, in my opinion, NCAC is one of the most pragmatic members of this board. And—like myself—he did in fact say that Tufts could be very dangerous if they put it all together. I, too, doubted Tufts, but also recognized that they were a good team and could go on a run if they got it together, which obviously they did. Hindsight is 20/20.

I can respect that he or she is pragmatic (and I do note some good things he or she says) but some of his or her comments to me have be a bit more aggressive or personal.... but, hey, I have thick skin...no sweat.

PaulNewman

My last post on this.

I see you added to your other post to say that Tufts beat OWU so bad they got to empty their bench.  Please go find my posts about that game.  I wrote that Tufts embarrassed OWU.  They annihilated them.  I also said Tufts was a very deserving champion, had gone through a tough draw, played great, truly impressive, etc, etc.  But do I think Tufts would annihilate OWU if they played 10 more times?  No, I don't, although I would guess Tufts would win 7 out of 10 with maybe a couple of draws thrown in.  If the tournament started from scratch, are you sure Tufts would win again?  I think I am reacting to you making statements that come across as some kind of proof of something or an eternal truth.  A lot of things are true.  Tufts tied MIT, lost to Brandeis, and lost to Conn College.  In the first game of the NCAAs, they were tied with Dickinson going into the last 14-15 minutes (a Dickinson team most thought didn't deserve a bid).

Nutmeg

Quote from: NCAC New England on December 12, 2014, 07:31:13 PM
My last post on this.

I see you added to your other post to say that Tufts beat OWU so bad they got to empty their bench.  Please go find my posts about that game.  I wrote that Tufts embarrassed OWU.  They annihilated them.  I also said Tufts was a very deserving champion, had gone through a tough draw, played great, truly impressive, etc, etc.  But do I think Tufts would annihilate OWU if they played 10 more times?  No, I don't, although I would guess Tufts would win 7 out of 10 with maybe a couple of draws thrown in.  If the tournament started from scratch, are you sure Tufts would win again?  I think I am reacting to you making statements that come across as some kind of proof of something or an eternal truth.  A lot of things are true.  Tufts tied MIT, lost to Brandeis, and lost to Conn College.  In the first game of the NCAAs, they were tied with Dickinson going into the last 14-15 minutes (a Dickinson team most thought didn't deserve a bid).

NCAC, in all honesty, and with all due respect, none of that matters. Tufts IS the national champion. I think you may be reading too much into the Flounder's posts.

PaulNewman

Nutmeg, in pure candor, and with the utmost respect, I'm not sure where you are coming from.

Have you seen anyone question the legitimacy of Tufts' national title?  Their remarkable run through the tournament has been widely praised, including by all non-NESCAC posters.  And almost all posters, including myself, have gone out of their way to emphasize that winning the title was well-earned and not a fluke.

The rub, for me (to the extent there is one and my responses to you and BF are making the rub seem much bigger than it actually is), has to do with some of the logic I've seen and the amount of post-title Tufts hype, and when you suggest "none of that matters," that is what that information was about.  There was the argument that Tufts would beat OWU because of SOS, which made no sense.  OWU isn't some backwater program that has never played good competition, and on those measures OWU was by far the more experienced, tournament-tested squad.  Then there was suggesting a ton of credit should be given to a "darkhorse" prediction as though something very insightful happened, when, in all candor, a NESCAC fan picked the two NESCAC teams (as Amherst was off-the-table as not qualifying as a darkhorse type of team) available in the tournament.  I believe you chimed in or another of the NESCAC posters and followed up by suggesting you wouldn't be surprised if Tufts made a run to the Sweet 16 (very different than definitely predicting Tufts would win the title).

Now, on to the post-title hype.  It has seemed that some of the NESCAC faithful, after all agreed that Tufts was a very, very good team and very, very deserving, have wanted even more affirmations and confirmations of greatness.  With all due respect, I think you started a new thread within 24 hours titled something like "Where does Tufts rank in terms of Best Ever?"  BF was the first poster after you started the thread endorsing the same sentiment.  And then we've gotten the complaints and pleas about how many Tufts players should have made the All American teams (with one particular post pasted into multiple threads).

I'll put this another way.  IF my team had won the national title I can't imagine that it even would have occurred to me to wonder or be concerned about "best ever."  The title would have been more than enough to satiate me.  And, in all honesty, perhaps it is my envy about my team not winning a national title that has me sensitive to the "give us even more, more, more" after your team (is it team or conference?) did win it all.  I can assure you that the players from any of the tournament participants would gladly give up any of their individual accolades in exchange for having that championship trophy.

Brother Flounder

Quote from: NCAC New England on December 13, 2014, 10:21:21 AM
Nutmeg, in pure candor, and with the utmost respect, I'm not sure where you are coming from.

Have you seen anyone question the legitimacy of Tufts' national title?  Their remarkable run through the tournament has been widely praised, including by all non-NESCAC posters.  And almost all posters, including myself, have gone out of their way to emphasize that winning the title was well-earned and not a fluke.

The rub, for me (to the extent there is one and my responses to you and BF are making the rub seem much bigger than it actually is), has to do with some of the logic I've seen and the amount of post-title Tufts hype, and when you suggest "none of that matters," that is what that information was about.  There was the argument that Tufts would beat OWU because of SOS, which made no sense.  OWU isn't some backwater program that has never played good competition, and on those measures OWU was by far the more experienced, tournament-tested squad.  Then there was suggesting a ton of credit should be given to a "darkhorse" prediction as though something very insightful happened, when, in all candor, a NESCAC fan picked the two NESCAC teams (as Amherst was off-the-table as not qualifying as a darkhorse type of team) available in the tournament.  I believe you chimed in or another of the NESCAC posters and followed up by suggesting you wouldn't be surprised if Tufts made a run to the Sweet 16 (very different than definitely predicting Tufts would win the title).

Now, on to the post-title hype.  It has seemed that some of the NESCAC faithful, after all agreed that Tufts was a very, very good team and very, very deserving, have wanted even more affirmations and confirmations of greatness.  With all due respect, I think you started a new thread within 24 hours titled something like "Where does Tufts rank in terms of Best Ever?"  BF was the first poster after you started the thread endorsing the same sentiment.  And then we've gotten the complaints and pleas about how many Tufts players should have made the All American teams (with one particular post pasted into multiple threads).

I'll put this another way.  IF my team had won the national title I can't imagine that it even would have occurred to me to wonder or be concerned about "best ever."  The title would have been more than enough to satiate me.  And, in all honesty, perhaps it is my envy about my team not winning a national title that has me sensitive to the "give us even more, more, more" after your team (is it team or conference?) did win it all.  I can assure you that the players from any of the tournament participants would gladly give up any of their individual accolades in exchange for having that championship trophy.

okay..okay......and thanks for the negative karma once again...and u complain about Mr. right.........

Nutmeg

Quote from: NCAC New England on December 13, 2014, 10:21:21 AM
Nutmeg, in pure candor, and with the utmost respect, I'm not sure where you are coming from.

Have you seen anyone question the legitimacy of Tufts' national title?  Their remarkable run through the tournament has been widely praised, including by all non-NESCAC posters.  And almost all posters, including myself, have gone out of their way to emphasize that winning the title was well-earned and not a fluke.

The rub, for me (to the extent there is one and my responses to you and BF are making the rub seem much bigger than it actually is), has to do with some of the logic I've seen and the amount of post-title Tufts hype, and when you suggest "none of that matters," that is what that information was about.  There was the argument that Tufts would beat OWU because of SOS, which made no sense.  OWU isn't some backwater program that has never played good competition, and on those measures OWU was by far the more experienced, tournament-tested squad.  Then there was suggesting a ton of credit should be given to a "darkhorse" prediction as though something very insightful happened, when, in all candor, a NESCAC fan picked the two NESCAC teams (as Amherst was off-the-table as not qualifying as a darkhorse type of team) available in the tournament.  I believe you chimed in or another of the NESCAC posters and followed up by suggesting you wouldn't be surprised if Tufts made a run to the Sweet 16 (very different than definitely predicting Tufts would win the title).

Now, on to the post-title hype.  It has seemed that some of the NESCAC faithful, after all agreed that Tufts was a very, very good team and very, very deserving, have wanted even more affirmations and confirmations of greatness.  With all due respect, I think you started a new thread within 24 hours titled something like "Where does Tufts rank in terms of Best Ever?"  BF was the first poster after you started the thread endorsing the same sentiment.  And then we've gotten the complaints and pleas about how many Tufts players should have made the All American teams (with one particular post pasted into multiple threads).

I'll put this another way.  IF my team had won the national title I can't imagine that it even would have occurred to me to wonder or be concerned about "best ever."  The title would have been more than enough to satiate me.  And, in all honesty, perhaps it is my envy about my team not winning a national title that has me sensitive to the "give us even more, more, more" after your team (is it team or conference?) did win it all.  I can assure you that the players from any of the tournament participants would gladly give up any of their individual accolades in exchange for having that championship trophy.


Hmmmm

Off Pitch

Not sure if these players have been recognized on this site, but the following were named to the Academic All-District team:

FIRST TEAM
Pos.         Name                   School                    Yr.        Hometown         GPA          Major
GK   Aidan McParland    U. OF NEW ENGLAND   Sr.   Brockville, Ontario   3.92   Medical biology
D   Jason Adler           MIT                           Sr.    Scarsdale, N.Y.         3.76   Mathematics
D   Andrew Gonzalez   BABSON                   Jr.   Durham, Conn.         3.62   Business Mgmt
D   Conor Lanahan           BRANDEIS                   Jr.   Avon, Conn.         3.41   Biochemistry
D   Gabriel Wirz           AMHERST                    Sr.   New York, N.Y.         3.65   Psychology
M   Chester Chambers   MIT                           Sr.   Columbia, Md.         4.00   Chemical Eng.
M   Justin Laurenzo           BABSON                   Sr.   Park Ridge, N.J.         3.80   Finance
M   Kurt Naugler          WPI                         Jr.   Westford, Mass.         3.96   Mechanical Eng
F   Adam Glaser          MIDDLEBURY           So.   Washington, D.C.     3.78   Undeclared
F   Tyler Savonen          BRANDEIS                   Sr.   Orleans, Mass.         3.60   Econ / business
F   Oscar Zapta          CLARK                   Sr.   Lima, Peru                 3.60   Mgmt / Econ


Congratulations to all of these fine student-athletes.