Pool B

Started by Ralph Turner, October 01, 2005, 02:12:36 PM

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smedindy

Oh, and then there's the 1982 Wabash 10-0 team...sigh...

Cleveland Cartel

Ralph,

Do you honestly believe WJ will beat Wesley out of the final pool B spot????  I find that hard to believe right now, because isnt Wesley still undefeated??? I could be wrong, but atleast I thought they were still????

Ralph Turner

Cartel, Pool B is gonna be a mess! ???  I think that Bob Gregg may have a chance  to look clairvoyent with his prediction that a Pool B will get a Pool C bid!

K-Mack

I too think there are some Pool B's that could steal a Pool C, although to be clear, my understanding is it's:

21 Pool A (automatic bids)
4 Pool B
7 Everyone else (Pool C/B, a.k.a. Pool A runners-up, Pool B overflow)

so it's not really taking a bid that "belongs" to a Pool C, per se. And it's not necessarily 21 AQs and the next best 11 either, if Pool B has a bad year or a lot of poor finishes this year.

Right now, solid Pool B chances:
Linfield
Thiel
Wesley/Salisbury winner
Whitworth if it wins out (1 loss out of division, 1 to Linfield)
W&J with one three-point loss in OT
Wesley if its only loss is to Salisbury, and DePauw is in
Huntingdon if its only loss is by 5 on the road to Trinity

-- That's about everyone with a chance, maybe Thomas More or Willamette, and I doubt Rockford could get in even with just 1 loss.

-- But you could have 6 or 7 solid cases for Pool B teams.

Now here's an interesting question:
Say Thomas More beats Thiel, but loses to Mt. St. Joseph in its finale. It could win the PAC and be unbeaten, but be 7-3. Thiel would be 9-1 and W&J would be 8-2 (assuming it loses to TM ... play along here)

Does the committee have to take the champion in Pool B? I think the answer is no ... The last time I remember three teams in a Pool B conference with legitimate playoff claims was NWC 2001 though, and I think PLU and Whitworth went and Linfield stayed home.
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K-Mack

Well,
as I read backwards ... looks like not much has changed.

Karma for Ralph.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2005, 12:07:53 PM
My picks for Pool B rankings after the 5th week of games.

1)  Linfield--of course!
2)  Thiel--great win for the Tomcats! They just messed up everyone else.
3)  Salisbury--the depth at QB seems sufficient to carry them.
4)  W&J--too good for too long.  May finish 9-1/7-1 South Region and have a win over possible HCAC Champ Hanover.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

5)  Wesley--Big match with Salisbury may determine the ACFC's "bid".
6)  Whitworth--may finish with a West Region record of 6-1 or better.
7)  Huntingdon--Game of the year for the Hawks in San Antonio on Saturday.  I believe that HC must defeat Trinity this week to get a bid, especially after Thiel's win. And I believe that Huntingdon must run the "South Region" table.


There are no "bumblers" getting Pool B bids this year.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
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Ralph Turner

Thanks, K-mack!

Because the ratio designating the number of Pool B bids is related to the number of Pool A conference members divided by the number of conferences, the schools in Pool B are lumped into one big conference and given that ratio of bids.

In weak Pool B bid years, they don't get an extra bid.  In strong years, their "5th", "6th" and maybe "7th" teams are definitely stronger than the weakest Pool a bids.

This is interesting.

religion_major

W&J had better win out if they want a pool B bid.  I think both pools B and C (AQ leftovers and pool B leftovers) are too strong this year for a two loss team to get in.  I believe that a loss to Waynesburg or Thomas Moore will keep W&J out of the playoffs come November.

Bob.Gregg

Quote from: religion_major on October 16, 2005, 07:59:09 PM
W&J had better win out if they want a pool B bid.  I think both pools B and C (AQ leftovers and pool B leftovers) are too strong this year for a two loss team to get in.  I believe that a loss to Waynesburg or Thomas Moore will keep W&J out of the playoffs come November.

I agree 100%, major.  My contention, though, has been that IF W&J wins out, they get in.
Been wrong before.  Will be wrong again.

religion_major

Quote from: bobgregg on October 17, 2005, 02:24:46 PM
Quote from: religion_major on October 16, 2005, 07:59:09 PM
W&J had better win out if they want a pool B bid.  I think both pools B and C (AQ leftovers and pool B leftovers) are too strong this year for a two loss team to get in.  I believe that a loss to Waynesburg or Thomas Moore will keep W&J out of the playoffs come November.

I agree 100%, major. My contention, though, has been that IF W&J wins out, they get in.

I must state that in my humble opinion there is no way that a 9-1 W&J team does not go to the playoffs.  The pool c ranks are thining from AQ runner-ups and if Wesley hold off W&J for the last pool B slot then I think (I know this will sound like herisey to my fellow ODAC posters and posters from pool A confrences) but W&J will at lest get a pool c bid at 9-1.

K-Mack

Yeah, I don't see why they wouldn't ... shouldn't be too many one-loss teams left over with the four extra bids and the Pool B/C flexibility.

But one never knows what the pool of contenders will look like ... some years, you have 9-1 teams from power conferences (UMHB, although it was before the ASC had proved itself) and other years they're deciding between teams with multiple losses for spot No. 28 (CNU and Ithaca? last year)

So it definitely early to say. A W&J 9-1 could be left out, but you'd think with the four extra bids it would be really rare ... IF we had an unbeaten Linfield, Thiel and Wesley, then W&J and a Whitworth with an out-of-division loss and a 15-point loss to No. 1 overall ... who do you take?

Them both over some 9-1 runner-up like St. Norbert or (can't believe I'm saying this) Washington & Lee, I guess.

Should be really interesting.
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Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Bob.Gregg

Quote from: K-Mack on October 18, 2005, 06:34:57 AM
...A W&J 9-1 could be left out, but you'd think with the four extra bids it would be really rare ... IF we had an unbeaten Linfield, Thiel and Wesley, then W&J and a Whitworth with an out-of-division loss and a 15-point loss to No. 1 overall ... who do you take?

Them both over some 9-1 runner-up like St. Norbert or (can't believe I'm saying this) Washington & Lee, I guess.

K-Mack, of course, we're not talking just about being left out of Pool B, which your list could do.  But then, there are SEVEN Pool C bids, not just 4 extra.
Been wrong before.  Will be wrong again.

Pat Coleman

But four more than last year.
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religion_major

K-mack,
This may be a minor point, but a 9-1 W&L team would be an AQ via the ODAC.  A loss to Bridgewater would drop them to 8-2 with their earlier loss to Centre and into possible pool concideration.  At 8-2 without a win over a playoff team I think that W&L would be highly unlikely to recieve an invitation via pool c.  From the ODAC standpoint it is Pool A or stay home at this point for both Bridgewater and Washington and Lee.

K-Mack

Religion,
you are correct. I was thinking of the Centre loss ... but reaching for a team to go with St. Norbert. Duh.

Bob.Gregg,
I'm not sure what your last post was getting at.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Bob.Gregg

K-Mack,

you wrote:  "IF we had an unbeaten Linfield, Thiel and Wesley, then W&J and a Whitworth with an out-of-division loss and a 15-point loss to No. 1 overall ... who do you take?

Them both over some 9-1 runner-up like St. Norbert or (can't believe I'm saying this) Washington & Lee, I guess."


I read that as W&J, Whitworth, St. Norbert, Washington & Lee and others were vying for FOUR spots.

W&J & Whitworth are vying for inclusion in Pool B (four spots), then if not successful, for inclusion in Pool C (seven additional spots).

That's all.  Perhaps I misread your post.
Been wrong before.  Will be wrong again.