Running up the score

Started by PA_wesleyfan, September 30, 2007, 12:24:43 PM

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kickerdad

Quote from: repete on September 30, 2007, 02:08:25 PM
Larry Kehres has basically written the book on how to handle this with class. If you look what MUC did in its opener, it's a lesson to all in that situation.

Guess that's because he's had so much practice ... :)

I said it after the game (MU & Averett) and I will say it again. MU did not run up the score intentionally on Averett. Kehres is a class act and he did everything he knew how to keep the score from going to 200. Averett plain and simple didn't do their part. I haven't heard one complaint from the Averett parents or coaches that MU ran up the score I don't think you ever will. We were there and saw what happened. Can't speak to any other game that folks may be complaining about but this one needs to be left alone.

SaintsFAN

um, kickerdad....I think repete was saying Kehres does it with class. 

Wasn't a criticism...
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smedindy

Quote from: Jonny Utah on October 01, 2007, 01:47:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 01, 2007, 11:31:38 AM
Texas Tech 75 - Northwestern State 7. THAT'S running up the score. Especially when TT only plays two QBs, the backup goes 9-12 for 196 and 3 TDs. The starting QB was in there throwing when it was 45-7 in the third quarter.

I know TT has a 'pass-wacky' offense, but they HAVE to have more than two QBs, and they certainly have some running plays up the middle. They didn't STOP passing until it was 75-7.

I didnt see the game but...

-Ive seen that Northwestern St. team play this year.  Very unorganized and lots of fumbles (only 4 vs TT it looks like)

-If you backup qb gets in the game like this, I would think you need him to pass and practice against a real team.  I dont see that much wrong with it.

Sure, but put the backup in earlier, and don't pass in the fourth quarter, OR put in #3 or #4 QB! There's no excuse for having the #2 slinging passes to hang 75 on a team.

kickerdad

Quote from: SaintsFAN on October 01, 2007, 03:01:52 PM
um, kickerdad....I think repete was saying Kehres does it with class. 

Wasn't a criticism...

Wasn't trying to say anything negative about what repete said, just using his statement as a reference.

Just Bill

#19
This may have shown up on other threads.  I usually enjoy reading Tuesday Morning Quarterback on ESPN.com, but this time I think the author, Gregg Easterbrook is woefully misguided about Mount Union and D-III football:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071002&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

Obscure College Score of the Week No. 2: Mount Union 62, Heidelberg 3. Located in Alliance, Ohio, Mount Union -- the defending D-III champion -- is the scourge of small college football, a program dedicated to running up the score. In Division III, some schools emphasize sports and some don't: Mount Union strongly emphasizes football, then schedules schools that do not emphasize football to ensure blowout win after blowout win. So far this season, Mount Union has won by finals of 75-7, 58-14, 62-0 and 62-3. On Saturday versus hapless Heidelberg, Mount Union kept its starting quarterback on the field until the margin was 49-3, although the Purple Raiders did attempt a field goal on first-and-goal in the fourth quarter rather than run for the likely touchdown. Once Mount Union reaches the D-III playoffs, it faces other schools that likewise emphasize football and its scores fall back into the normal range. Maybe it would be enjoyable to play for a team that always won by runaway margins, but where is the sportsmanship in a regular-season schedule of opponents with little or no chance of winning? Mount Union also has six home games versus four road dates, a sure sign of a manipulated schedule.

1.  They're called conference games.  You can't pick and choose your whole schedule from the nation's Top 10.

2.  Mount Union more than any other school, works hard to not run up the score.  They are just that much better.

3.  How unbelievably unfair to accuse a school of not being dedicated to football on the basis of one blowout to the best team in the country.

I think all D-III fans need to write in and politely tell Gregg Easterbrook (TMQ_ESPN@yahoo.com) how badly he's messed this one up.

EDIT:  You know, he's so far off base, I almost feel like he's baiting us.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Josh Bowerman

This is not a jab at any program or coach.  But I feel compelled to mention that collegiality and sportsmanship should, at least IMHO, be part of the DIII game.  Sure, you play to win every week, but at the end of the day, you're going back to class to study hard and prepare for a career in the "real world"--just like the kids on the other team, regardless of score.  Just my humble .02 worth.   :-\
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass

K-Mack

Quote from: smedindy on October 01, 2007, 03:33:01 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on October 01, 2007, 01:47:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 01, 2007, 11:31:38 AM
Texas Tech 75 - Northwestern State 7. THAT'S running up the score. Especially when TT only plays two QBs, the backup goes 9-12 for 196 and 3 TDs. The starting QB was in there throwing when it was 45-7 in the third quarter.

I know TT has a 'pass-wacky' offense, but they HAVE to have more than two QBs, and they certainly have some running plays up the middle. They didn't STOP passing until it was 75-7.

I didnt see the game but...

-Ive seen that Northwestern St. team play this year.  Very unorganized and lots of fumbles (only 4 vs TT it looks like)

-If you backup qb gets in the game like this, I would think you need him to pass and practice against a real team.  I dont see that much wrong with it.

Sure, but put the backup in earlier, and don't pass in the fourth quarter, OR put in #3 or #4 QB! There's no excuse for having the #2 slinging passes to hang 75 on a team.

See, I might disagree with you here.

Precisely because of the offense Texas Tech runs.

They are not going to beat every team that bad. They could end up needing that second-string QB for a long stretch of the season against teams like Oklahoma and Texas A&M and Texas.

If they do, won't they have been glad to get him all the reps they possibly could have in their real offense, regardless of whether they are game-speed reps or not, as opposed to having him hand off?

I understand the class act part of the equation, however, a coach's job is to get his team ready, and one can argue that he is wasting reps by not running his offense with players who don't often get a chance to play or to play together.

I think a far more bothersome show of no-class, as opposed to scoring a lot, is how your team handles itself throughout the game, regardless of the score. Do your receivers point every first down they get, or do they help the DB up? Do they do a tackle dance after 3-yard gains? Do they talk trash and pick fights?

I'm all for celebrating and enjoying the game, but I am far more annoyed by than than I am passing when you have a big lead, especially in today's climate where it's OK to pass on any down in any situation.

That might illustrate the to-each-his-own-ness of the running-up-the-score debate.
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Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 12:38:08 AM
...
If they do, won't they have been glad to get him all the reps they possibly could have in their real offense, regardless of whether they are game-speed reps or not, as opposed to having him hand off?

I understand the class act part of the equation, however, a coach's job is to get his team ready, and one can argue that he is wasting reps by not running his offense with players who don't often get a chance to play or to play together.

I think a far more bothersome show of no-class, as opposed to scoring a lot, is how your team handles itself throughout the game, regardless of the score. Do your receivers point every first down they get, or do they help the DB up? Do they do a tackle dance after 3-yard gains? Do they talk trash and pick fights?

I'm all for celebrating and enjoying the game, but I am far more annoyed by that than I am passing when you have a big lead, especially in today's climate where it's OK to pass on any down in any situation.


That might illustrate the to-each-his-own-ness of the running-up-the-score debate.
+5!!!!!

I strongly agree!  :)

K-Mack

Thanks.

Can you really get +5? You're gonna have to stay committed to follow through on that.  :)
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
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Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 01:07:42 AM
Thanks.

Can you really get +5? You're gonna have to stay committed to follow through on that.  :)
Hopefully by the middle of next week, at the latest!  :D

Jonny Utah

Quote from: Just Bill on October 02, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
This may have shown up on other threads.  I usually enjoy reading Tuesday Morning Quarterback on ESPN.com, but this time I think the author, Gregg Easterbrook is woefully misguided about Mount Union and D-III football:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071002&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

Obscure College Score of the Week No. 2: Mount Union 62, Heidelberg 3. Located in Alliance, Ohio, Mount Union -- the defending D-III champion -- is the scourge of small college football, a program dedicated to running up the score. In Division III, some schools emphasize sports and some don't: Mount Union strongly emphasizes football, then schedules schools that do not emphasize football to ensure blowout win after blowout win. So far this season, Mount Union has won by finals of 75-7, 58-14, 62-0 and 62-3. On Saturday versus hapless Heidelberg, Mount Union kept its starting quarterback on the field until the margin was 49-3, although the Purple Raiders did attempt a field goal on first-and-goal in the fourth quarter rather than run for the likely touchdown. Once Mount Union reaches the D-III playoffs, it faces other schools that likewise emphasize football and its scores fall back into the normal range. Maybe it would be enjoyable to play for a team that always won by runaway margins, but where is the sportsmanship in a regular-season schedule of opponents with little or no chance of winning? Mount Union also has six home games versus four road dates, a sure sign of a manipulated schedule.

1.  They're called conference games.  You can't pick and choose your whole schedule from the nation's Top 10.

2.  Mount Union more than any other school, works hard to not run up the score.  They are just that much better.

3.  How unbelievably unfair to accuse a school of not being dedicated to football on the basis of one blowout to the best team in the country.

I think all D-III fans need to write in and politely tell Gregg Easterbrook (TMQ_ESPN@yahoo.com) how badly he's messed this one up.

EDIT:  You know, he's so far off base, I almost feel like he's baiting us.

How about

4. Mt. Union also blows out some of the other top teams in the playoffs.....

K-Mack

#26
Quote from: Jonny Utah on October 03, 2007, 03:57:01 AM
Quote from: Just Bill on October 02, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
This may have shown up on other threads.  I usually enjoy reading Tuesday Morning Quarterback on ESPN.com, but this time I think the author, Gregg Easterbrook is woefully misguided about Mount Union and D-III football:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071002&sportCat=nfl&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

Obscure College Score of the Week No. 2: Mount Union 62, Heidelberg 3. Located in Alliance, Ohio, Mount Union -- the defending D-III champion -- is the scourge of small college football, a program dedicated to running up the score. In Division III, some schools emphasize sports and some don't: Mount Union strongly emphasizes football, then schedules schools that do not emphasize football to ensure blowout win after blowout win. So far this season, Mount Union has won by finals of 75-7, 58-14, 62-0 and 62-3. On Saturday versus hapless Heidelberg, Mount Union kept its starting quarterback on the field until the margin was 49-3, although the Purple Raiders did attempt a field goal on first-and-goal in the fourth quarter rather than run for the likely touchdown. Once Mount Union reaches the D-III playoffs, it faces other schools that likewise emphasize football and its scores fall back into the normal range. Maybe it would be enjoyable to play for a team that always won by runaway margins, but where is the sportsmanship in a regular-season schedule of opponents with little or no chance of winning? Mount Union also has six home games versus four road dates, a sure sign of a manipulated schedule.

1.  They're called conference games.  You can't pick and choose your whole schedule from the nation's Top 10.

2.  Mount Union more than any other school, works hard to not run up the score.  They are just that much better.

3.  How unbelievably unfair to accuse a school of not being dedicated to football on the basis of one blowout to the best team in the country.

I think all D-III fans need to write in and politely tell Gregg Easterbrook (TMQ_ESPN@yahoo.com) how badly he's messed this one up.

EDIT:  You know, he's so far off base, I almost feel like he's baiting us.

How about

4. Mt. Union also blows out some of the other top teams in the playoffs.....

Ugh.

I thought we were finished with this clown.

Mount Union schedules one game a year. The other nine are OAC games. In '08 and '09, they have set up a home-and-home with St. John Fisher, whom they defeated in the national semifinals last year.

They play in a conference that awards an automatic playoff bid to its champion (not that Division I followers would know anything about that), so it behooves them to schedule an opponent that will test them since they are guaranteed to only have a few competitive games a year with the way they dominate their conference.

It also can't be very easy for Mount Union to find anyone that actually wants to play them, given what they do to teams that have to play them.

In any case, my next (and final) e-mail to Easterbrook will go something like this:

"You are a clown. Please stop using your ESPN column as a platform to talk out of your [butt] about something you clearly know little about. Regarding the issue of "running up the score," you clearly can't look beyond the scores themselves.

We have been over this twice before in well-detailed e-mails that you have either not bothered to read or chosen not to take seriously. I'll be brief, so as not to waste my time making perfect arguments you'll ignore.

I have no reason to lie to you about Mount Union. They are simply that much better than the competition, and they go to great lengths not to run up scores. They play with class, they respect their opponents and if you spend any time around them, you'll find them awful hard to hate.

I'm not sure why you have a hard-on for these guys, but please refrain from further embarassing yourself on this topic."

I probably should move "You are a clown" to the end to get maximum results.

I think we actually should do the letter writing campaign this time, and then next time he mentions it, ignore him like I do his column (except when people post parts of it here).

Just Bill, I have done polite twice before. It appears to have no effect, but feel free to try it.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

#27
Sent my e-mail just now. Added in an example of what Kehres does to not run up the score and the point about them only being in control of one non-conference date, while other strong D3 teams openly refuse to schedule powerful in-state rivals.

Let me know if I should link to the detailed arguments from the past few years (maybe in ATN, maybe in year in review columns) about why this guy is off-base.

Clearly it's just a fixation he has with Mount Union; he's referred to them before as The Death Star of college football, and the slander goes back to '01 or so, on NFL.com and ESPN.com.

Guy's a Colorado College grad too, for what that's worth.

If someone worked for me and was repeatedly that arrogant about his opinion and clearly put little time or thought into forming those opinions, he wouldn't be writing for me anymore.

I can respect a difference of opinion, much more so if it is well thought-out and argued.

Easterbrook's full range of thought on this seems to be "Mount Union keeps winning by a lot, so they must be bad sports."

As we know, not much could be further from the truth.

Don't get me started on "six home games is a sure sign of a manipulated schedule."

Oh yeah? You mean to tell me it didn't possibly occur to this guy that they could have played six road games last year, maybe because their schedule and Averett's didn't match up when they signed the home-and-home and they took the deal anyway despite it unbalancing their schedule?

(They did play six regular-season road games in '06, for the record; five of the first seven were away)

That wasn't even in my e-mail, someone else can use that one.

I mean, that's just blatant not thinking.

Post here if you've e-mailed him. Part of me says ignore the fool, but the other part says perhaps if it's more than just the surly columnist e-mailing, if it's a bunch of people from around the country who aren't MUC fans or alums, maybe he'll take heed.

(He won't, but it'll make us feel better)
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Quote from: Just Bill on October 02, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
EDIT:  You know, he's so far off base, I almost feel like he's baiting us.

Very possible.

(took bait)

I will try not to drive any more traffic his way, although I don't think it'll affect the numbers much :)
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

ADL70

Should we be more offended that he referred to Mount Union as "obscure?"
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