Running up the score

Started by PA_wesleyfan, September 30, 2007, 12:24:43 PM

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Warren Thompson

Quote from: cwru70 on October 03, 2007, 07:42:54 AM
Should we be more offended that he referred to Mount Union as "obscure?"

Perhaps Mt. Union is an "obscure" venue only for someone who knows little, if anything, about D3 football.

Knightstalker

Quote from: Warren Thompson on October 03, 2007, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: cwru70 on October 03, 2007, 07:42:54 AM
Should we be more offended that he referred to Mount Union as "obscure?"

Perhaps Mt. Union is an "obscure" venue only for someone who knows little, if anything, about D3 football.

One could argue that his column is obscure.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

Warren Thompson

Quote from: Knightstalker on October 03, 2007, 08:15:03 AM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on October 03, 2007, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: cwru70 on October 03, 2007, 07:42:54 AM
Should we be more offended that he referred to Mount Union as "obscure?"

Perhaps Mt. Union is an "obscure" venue only for someone who knows little, if anything, about D3 football.

One could argue that his column is obscure.

Well, yes, he certainly seems to have obscured some facts.  ::)

Just Bill

Quote from: Knightstalker on October 03, 2007, 08:15:03 AM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on October 03, 2007, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: cwru70 on October 03, 2007, 07:42:54 AM
Should we be more offended that he referred to Mount Union as "obscure?"

Perhaps Mt. Union is an "obscure" venue only for someone who knows little, if anything, about D3 football.

One could argue that his column is obscure.
Unfortunately, after Bill Simmons and Pat Forde, it's one of the most popular columns on ESPN.com.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

retagent

I also wrote pointing out another mistake in his "facts." In 2000 and 2003, Mount beat their semi-final opponents by, if my memory serves, 60 points each year (before running into the powerhouse Johnnies who returned them to "normal scores") What an ultra-maroon this guy must be.

Just Bill

Here's what I wrote to Eastrbrook:

Mr. Easterbrook,

You appear to be very uninformed about Mount Union College football and Division III football in general, so I thought I would attempt to enlighten you.  I am a fan of Wisconsin-Stevens Point and have no connection to Mount Union other than being a fan of Division III sports.

First you attest that Mount Union must be loading their schedule with cupcakes and home games.  Mount plays in a 10-team conference, which means nine of their games are scheduled for them.  They have control of exactly ONE game on their schedule.  In the past they have scheduled UW-Whitewater (national runner-up) and in the future they schedule St. John Fisher (national semifinalist).  With nine conference games, they begin with either 5 at home and 4 on the road or vice versa.  I would think you would understand that with their success they have difficulty finding opponents willing to play.  Isn't it possible that the one non-conference game they scheduled wasn't able to accomodate them creating an unbalanced schedule?  In fact, basic research that any junior reporter would have done would show the Mount Union played six ROAD games and just four home games in 2006.

Secondly, simply because you see a lopsided score you assume Mount Union is running it up.  As a fan who sat on the opposite end of an MTC blowout, I can assure that they go to extreme measures to avoid blowouts.  Against Averett, their starting running back touched the ball just 7 times (and two of those were punt returns).  Against Heidelberg, they opted for field goal attempts on first down following a turnover three times to avoid scoring more touchdowns.  You also state that Mount Union's game scores "fall back into the normal range" once the enter the D-III playoffs.  Again my junior reporting skills (which you lack) shows the Mount Union has won playoff games by scores of 49-0, 35-3, 49-6 and 44-7 in the last two years.  The fact is, they are just that much better than most of the rest of the country.

Finally, it is a horrible slap in the face at the other schools when you accuse them of not taking football seriously based on one lopsided game to the top ranked team in the country.  The other teams in the Ohio Athletic Conference are very serious about football and peform very well when playing outisde of the conference.  Did you say the same about Northwestern St. when they were crushed by Texas A&M?  Did you call out Northwestern when they were pounded by Ohio State?

Please take more care in your reporting.  You have an exellent column, but your shoddy reporting on this reflects poorly on you and your employer.  All the information you need to write an informed column is readily available just a few clicks away.  I am sure the Coach Kehres would also be glad to explain to you the way that Mount Union conducts business, should you ever bother to call.

"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Josh Bowerman

Uhhh....the two years Mount played UW-W, the Warhawks were a combined 12-8.  Not to discredit your argument, because it's generally solid.  But it's not like those were the best 'Hawk teams of the decade....

Plus for every UW-W and SJF on the Raiders schedule, there's an Allegheny and a Wash U.   :-X
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass

Just Bill

If I thought he'd bother to check my work, I'd be worried.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

smedindy

I also wrote a very polite, respectful response to Easterbrook. I love his column - I enjoy witty, erudite football discussion. He is no clown - I think he thought Mt. Union really had more control over its schedule than it does.

Josh Bowerman

Quote from: Just Bill on October 03, 2007, 10:20:12 AM
If I thought he'd bother to check my work, I'd be worried.

Good point.
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass

Just Bill

Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 03, 2007, 10:23:40 AM
Quote from: Just Bill on October 03, 2007, 10:20:12 AM
If I thought he'd bother to check my work, I'd be worried.

Good point.

Seriously though, even if Whitewater wasn't the team from 2005 and 2006, they were still a winning team from an elite conference.  That's hardly picking out softies, the way that Easterbrook implies.

Quote from: smedindy on October 03, 2007, 10:22:39 AM
I think he thought Mt. Union really had more control over its schedule than it does.

That may be true, but it wopuld have taken a 20-second journey into Google-land to discover that Mount Union plays nine conference games.  That's weak reporting any way you slice it.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 03, 2007, 10:12:53 AM
Uhhh....the two years Mount played UW-W, the Warhawks were a combined 12-8.  Not to discredit your argument, because it's generally solid.  But it's not like those were the best 'Hawk teams of the decade....

Plus for every UW-W and SJF on the Raiders schedule, there's an Allegheny and a Wash U.   :-X

When that series was scheduled Allegheny was giving Mount Union its toughest playoff games.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

K-Mack

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2007, 11:00:38 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 03, 2007, 10:12:53 AM
Uhhh....the two years Mount played UW-W, the Warhawks were a combined 12-8.  Not to discredit your argument, because it's generally solid.  But it's not like those were the best 'Hawk teams of the decade....

Plus for every UW-W and SJF on the Raiders schedule, there's an Allegheny and a Wash U.   :-X

When that series was scheduled Allegheny was giving Mount Union its toughest playoff games.

Yeah, Josh, I almost had to call you out for erring while you called someone else out.

In the 90s, Allegheny was a perennial playoff team. When they played Mount in 00-01, they weren't so far removed from that era that scheduling them was viewed as searching for a cupcake.

I probably wouldn't even make that claim if they scheduled them now.

There ARE top 25 teams who do purposely schedule cupcakes (or avoid good teams who could plausibly beat them pre-conference schedule), and there are powerhouses who for years couldn't fill out a schedule with Division III opponents.

It's not that this is a worthless topic, just that one isn't going to get anyone very far if they pursue it with Mount Union. There's not much there.
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Mr. Ypsi

SOMETIMES 'running up the score' is pretty blatant (and, long-term, costly).  Sorry this isn't d3, but the classic case is Woody Hayes, 1968 (and '69):

In the 1968 OSU-UM game, OSU scored at the end of the game to make it 48-14.  Woody went for two(!): final score 50-14.  When asked after the game why in the world he would do that, he replied "Because they wouldn't let me go for three".  The result was that the UM coach was fired and replaced by Woody's protege, Bo Schembechler.

In 1969 OSU had what was at the time often called the greatest team in college football history (and which Woody himself said was the greatest team he ever coached).  OOPS!  UM 24, OSU 12.  While obviously Michigan would have had no trouble getting up for the game anyway, Bo (and several players) said that the two-point conversion in '68 was a 'huge' extra motivator.

Anyone tempted to 'rub it in' should remember that opponents have memories! ;)

Josh Bowerman

#44
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 03, 2007, 11:00:38 AMWhen that series was scheduled Allegheny was giving Mount Union its toughest playoff games.

Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 11:47:18 AM
Yeah, Josh, I almost had to call you out for erring while you called someone else out.

In the 90s, Allegheny was a perennial playoff team. When they played Mount in 00-01, they weren't so far removed from that era that scheduling them was viewed as searching for a cupcake.

I probably wouldn't even make that claim if they scheduled them now.

There ARE top 25 teams who do purposely schedule cupcakes (or avoid good teams who could plausibly beat them pre-conference schedule), and there are powerhouses who for years couldn't fill out a schedule with Division III opponents.

It's not that this is a worthless topic, just that one isn't going to get anyone very far if they pursue it with Mount Union. There's not much there.

Gentlemen--

This all may be so, but since 1999, the Gators have never won more than seven games in a season, and made one solitary playoff appearance--losing in the first round to Montclair State in 2003. 

Prior to the 1998-99 seasons, DIII was much smaller and more centralized in the midwest and east coast, too--something that must be taken into consideration for the sake of this discussion.

I'm not saying Mt. Union schedules cupcakes, or that Allegheny is a cupcake.  But at the same time, MUC hasn't exactly gone out of their way to get out of their general local or even their own region and schedule another legitimate playoff contender, either.  St. John's, Wheaton, Millikin, Washington & Jefferson, Rowan...all teams that have been largely successful during that period of time and henceforth--and well within bussing distance for an Ohio team.  Wabash and Hanover also had some good runs during that period of time, as did Central--also within bussing distance.

Look I'm not trying to start anything, here.  The truth of the matter is somewhere squarely in the middle of the original article and today's letter of response.  I do applaud the Raiders for scheduling SJF for the next two years.  The Cardinals seem to be the class of the northeast now, and it should prove to be a good series.

Nor, for the record, do I think the Raiders run up the purposefully run up the score.  I do think it happens, but I don't think that Coach Kehres could ever legitimately be accused of doing so just for the sake of doing so.

Other programs across the nation, though.....well, who am I to say?    ;)
"Without struggle, there is no progress."--Frederick Douglass