Author Topic: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight  (Read 12438 times)

NYBB

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This doesn't have so much to do with D3 baseball as it does with baseball in general.

When discussing Odalis Perez in the pre-game tonight between the Braves & Nationals, Jon & Joe were speaking and Miller said, "Perez is throwing 89-91 MPH so he's got a pretty good fastball."

WHOA!  ARE YOU SERIOUS?  THIS IS GREAT!

To me, that comment is an absolute sign that the steroids era in baseball is coming to a close.  I know that it might not seem that way to you but the last time I checked, 89 MPH was considered a weak to average fastball.  Kudos to Jon Miller for saying that because in reality, 89 MPH is pretty damn fast.  The days of everyone in the majors having to throw 95+ to make it should be done with.  Pitching isn't all about speed and to hear a little comment like that made by someone that sees a lot of baseball makes me frickin' smile.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 02:37:19 am by NYBB »

WLCALUM83

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 07:16:04 am »
Ahhh! Another oxymoron--the (relatively) slow fast-ball! (Ba dumm bumm!)  :D

SmolinXIII

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2008, 11:14:17 am »
NYBB,

You'd be surprised to see minor leaguers throw.  Everyone is about 88-92, with the few guys that can push it to 95+.  While it doesn't sound overpowering, it's still coming pretty good.  You'll start to hear batters start saying that a guy is throwing really hard at about 91-92 mph. 

Batter's see pitches the same at certain speeds.  What I've encountered and been told by some great hitters is that speed is like in steps.  These are:

85-88 - Everyone hits this
89-92 - Can start sneaking fastballs by
93-95 - When everyone starts having trouble putting the bat on the bat.
96+    - Disgustingly hard

So Odalis actually isn't throwing as slow as you'd might think!

NYBB

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 03:59:42 pm »
lol i'm not saying it's slow but in MLB terms, 89 has been considered rather weak for the past several years and i'm glad to hear that it's not being considered that anymore. 

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 11:19:42 pm »
Dunno -- could be just Jon Miller being used to Kirk Reuter ...
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Online Mr. Ypsi

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 11:25:54 pm »
While pitchers have been implicated in steroids (in fact, I believe in disproportion to their numbers), be careful of painting with too broad a brush.  To the best of my knowledge, there have never even been rumors about Zumaya and Verlander, both of whom regularly exceed 100 mph.  Some guys are just natural freaks of nature.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 11:34:12 pm by Mr. Ypsi »

Offline Blackcat00

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 11:33:48 am »
For Perez that is a good fastball because he usually hits around 88-90. Really doesnt reflect being on steriods. Not sure were this topic is going?

Offline scuba16

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 02:42:24 pm »
75% or more of all MLB players in the past 10-12 years have used performance enhancing drugs(banned or not). Might be higher for pitchers.
I think pitchers were the biggest culprits because when they used the gained speed on all their pitches and the ability to recover quicker.

Look at some of the guys that revamped their careers in the late 90's early/middle 2000's. Coming back throwing harder at the age of 35 than they did at 25.
Its very naive to think pitchers were represented in a disproportioned manner in the midst of the performanced enhanced era.
When Brady Anderson hit 50 bombs in 1996 it was apparent something was out of place. He averaged 9 a year from 88-95.

Its too bad they don't keep stats to show how hard in MPH pitchers threw for different years of their careers. You would see guys that topped out a 90-92 in early yrs throwing 95-95 later in there career. Something is wrong with that and its called steroids and human growth hormone!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 10:56:29 pm by scuba16 »
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SmolinXIII

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 07:08:47 pm »
Maybe their velocity increase was just due to better mechanics?  When I was playing last summer, Joel Zumaya's brother told us that he was throwing 90 when he first got to the US, and we all know how hard he's throwing now.  I mean, maybe Zumaya's flame tattoos helped?  ;D

Offline scuba16

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 11:12:11 pm »
Ask the pitching coaches and they will say it was all their hard work that added 9mph to a guys fastball. What a joke.
Every MLB coach and team personnel knew the MLB guys were all juiced out of their minds and never said a word and why would they, they were making $ hand over fist because attendance went through the roof with all of the offense and record breaking.
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Online Mr. Ypsi

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 11:42:55 pm »
scuba16,

You are making extremely broad accusations.  First that "75% or more .... higher for pitchers"  then implying it was essentially everyone in MLB.  Got any evidence for the potential slander of hundreds of players who were NOT juicing?

Specifically, any evidence against Tigers pitchers Verlander or Zumaya (both often over 100 mph), or Bautista (clocked opening day at 99); I've never heard any accusations whatsoever against them.

Steroids were (are?) a MAJOR problem, but let's not tar-and-feather everyone.

SmolinXIII

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 12:41:46 am »
Scuba,

When playing, I was tested twice a month.  Pitchers were also not the guys that had any pills/substances in their lockers.  Position players are more worried about bulking up.  Pitchers know that certain mechanics make you throw harder.  We even had a former player whose job it was to make sure we weren't taking anything illegal.  Also, the fact they did random offseason drug tests scared the crap out of everyone. 

From experience, I can tell you that out of about 160 dudes at minor league camp.. I'd say there were about 3 guys you had a suspicion about.  Out of the Phillies organization last year, minors and majors, there was one player who tested positive for a performance enhancement..  And that player had been taking it for a legitimate medical reason.

And about throwing 9 mph faster... four years ago as a freshman in college I gained 5 mph in two weeks by tweaking one thing in my delivery.  I was touching 87 as a high school senior and midway through my freshman season at college.  To finish the year, I was sitting at 90, touching 92 frequently. 

You're making it seem like it's virtually impossible to improve velocity at an older age.  Some guys focus on other things first, then mix in velocity later. 

Offline scuba16

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 09:28:00 am »
Scuba,

When playing, I was tested twice a month.  Pitchers were also not the guys that had any pills/substances in their lockers.  Position players are more worried about bulking up.  Pitchers know that certain mechanics make you throw harder.  We even had a former player whose job it was to make sure we weren't taking anything illegal.  Also, the fact they did random offseason drug tests scared the crap out of everyone. 

From experience, I can tell you that out of about 160 dudes at minor league camp.. I'd say there were about 3 guys you had a suspicion about.  Out of the Phillies organization last year, minors and majors, there was one player who tested positive for a performance enhancement..  And that player had been taking it for a legitimate medical reason.

And about throwing 9 mph faster... four years ago as a freshman in college I gained 5 mph in two weeks by tweaking one thing in my delivery.  I was touching 87 as a high school senior and midway through my freshman season at college.  To finish the year, I was sitting at 90, touching 92 frequently. 

You're making it seem like it's virtually impossible to improve velocity at an older age.  Some guys focus on other things first, then mix in velocity later. 

Smolin,
Thanks for the update, performance enhancing drugs are illegal now but the time I'm talking about you were in 4th grade, so what goes on now in Professional baseball has no bearing on my commentary. I'm glad MLB baseball is trying to clean up their act, ITS ABOUT TIME!
By the way, we are not talking about college freshman gaining MPH from freshman to seniors, we are talking about grown men, MLB pitchers who have had the best pitching coaches in the world for ever, never gained anything for their 1st 9 yrs in the bigs and all of a sudden they gain 6-9 MPH at the age of 35? Its called their heads and every muscle in their bodies got bigger and stronger from steroids or HGH thus resulting in their ability to throw harder. Same pitching motion, stronger force production with stronger muscles = throwing harder!

Ypsi,
Do you live in a bubble? On 1 hand you state "Steroids were (are?) a MAJOR problem" and on the other you want me convicted of slander!
There are no records of who used and didn't use but from talking to a few friends in and around MLB and the minor leagues from 1996-until they figured out they had a problem, Most of the players(broad strokes) used steroids, HGH, and a wide array of amphetamines(legal and illegal). That is common knowledge throughout the baseball world. There are no records of it, but it happened.
35 year old washed up guys all of a sudden throwing harder than they did at 25! Guys who averaged 9 hrs for their 1st 7 years hitting 40 and 50 bombs! It doesn't happen unless they either found the fountain of youth or they USED PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS!
If you are wondering, I AM IMPLYING THAT MOST OF MLB WAS USING some form of Performing Enhancing Drugs from like 1996- 2005ish when MLB got their heads out their arses and put and end to it! Look at the records that fell, the offensive production, the reincarnation of Pitchers long lost to father time! It happened buddy!


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Offline NCWC

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2008, 09:34:27 am »
Jon and Joe don't always know what they are talking about.  If you have to sit their and small talk for 2 to three hours, Im guessing about 2/5 of what they say is b.s..  My favorite is when they call a 82 mph changeup a curveball or a fastball.
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Offline StarvinMarvin

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Re: The most interesting comment on ESPN baseball was made tonight
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 09:55:16 am »
Smolin, some players at the professional level use steroids in large part to "bulk up" or as way to help them fill out a uniform along with the obvious advantages that steroids provide.  With millions of people watching professional baseball, some guys workout as if they're competing in a bodybuilding contest to get raves about their physique, Brad Fullmer for example if anyone remembers him.  He ate syringes for breakfast!  However, guys who could care less about their physique and how they fill out a uniform are more invoved in using steroids as a recovery aid.  I played professionally myself for quite a few years and there's no truth to your statement where you insinuate that position players were the only ones trying to gain an advantage through supplementation when you have no idea what they're (pitchers) taking before they get to the field and after they leave.  Not all steroids are anabolic or muscle enhancing.  However, steroids that promote muscle hypertrophy at its finest do so when they are combined with a specific type of workout regimen and over the top nutritional supplementation.  Yes, some guys have a noticeable difference in their physique like Bonds or McGwire but the majority of guys used steroids that had very low anabolic properties, lifted the way a baseball player should lift and that is to stay lean and loose and did so to help their bodies recover from breaking down over the course of a long, long season.  This helps pitchers and position players maintain their weight and strength over the course of "the grind".
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 09:57:17 am by StarvinMarvin »