TOP 25

Started by short, July 11, 2008, 10:56:29 PM

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JT

There are quite a few quality programs replacing a lot of starters with their JV teams from last year.  I think reputation has kept some teams high (perhaps correctly) on the pre-season top 25.

retagent

I actually think that #5 for SJU may be a little low. They are bringing back many quality players, had a good recruiting year, including what look to be a few very good transfers. Time will tell.

K-Mack

Quote from: cwru70 on August 06, 2008, 09:58:22 AM
Over at Foxsports.com coulmnist Pete Fiutak asserts that the idea for preseason polls "is to ranks [sic] teams on how good they are going into the season and not where they will end up."

He doesn't explaim what  he means by that, but he compares Ohio St. and SoCal and asks which is "the better team RIGHT NOW?."  I guess that means that you don't consider depth as a factor to lessen the impact of injuries or a team's history of being able to replace departed players with back-ups who may not have played much the previous season or who were even redshirted.

What do d3.com's voters think about that statement?     

That's funny, that's exactly how I am.

What it means in our context is if you have a team with six starters back and a team with eight, it's hard to put faith in them right now. There's no doubt in my mind Mount Union or Whitewater could end the season as champion -- they might be starting off with virtual JV teams, but recruiting off three straight Stagg Bowls, and having five extra weeks of practice per year. I had to consider whether one of those teams right now at this moment was better than the playoff teams returning what they return; Voters have to consider whether one of those returning a handful of all-Americans might be better right now than the UWW and MUC who are going to need time to jell and develop.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Quote from: retagent on August 06, 2008, 10:13:26 PM
I actually think that #5 for SJU may be a little low.

I object, your honor.

Joking aside, having seen them play last season, having seen what the Johnnies bring back in terms of returning starters, and considering they're not even the most accomplished team in their own conference based on the season that just passed, I fail to see why the Johnnies would deserve to be ranked fourth or higher.

Maybe this is another good example of the question that was just asked. Certainly there's the possibility that the Johnnies recruited really well and will be better off without a 10,000-yard quarterback, etc., but I don't know if it's fair to expect voters to bank on that kind of stuff right now. I think we'd like to see it in action some.

You did say "time will tell," and it most certainly will, that's the fun of the season. However, the fun of the message boards in August isn't agreeing to disagree, so fire away!
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

retagent

I don't have a strong disagreement with you K-Mack, but by that same reasoning, Mt Union, and certainly UWW are subject to downgrading. I'm going a lot on what those who have shown themselves to be knowledgeable on the MIACCPP, and news releases are revealing.

Jonny Utah

Is there anyone in here who thinks Mount Union would beat W-Whitwater 9/10 times last season?  Im not saying I do, but I was just wondering....

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Jonny Utah on August 08, 2008, 04:42:09 PM
Is there anyone in here who thinks Mount Union would beat W-Whitwater 9/10 times last season?  Im not saying I do, but I was just wondering....

I MIGHT go 6 or 7 of 10, but no way would I go 9/10. :P

pg04

And I wonder if I'll be alive for the year when Mt. Union doesn't start off number 1  :D

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: pg04 on August 08, 2008, 07:29:18 PM
And I wonder if I'll be alive for the year when Mt. Union doesn't start off number 1  :D

It WILL happen some day - even they haven't matched Augie's fourpeat (though their overall dominance has long since put Augie in the shadows), and the Vikings are now just another good, not great, team in the CCIW. 

It will be interesting to see if they can outlast the tenure of LK (and the rest of d3 hopes LK doesn't think he is Gagliardi or Paterno! :D)

JT

Quote from: Jonny Utah on August 08, 2008, 04:42:09 PM
Is there anyone in here who thinks Mount Union would beat W-Whitwater 9/10 times last season?  Im not saying I do, but I was just wondering....

Sometimes destiny is just that... it was UWW's time.  I'd take UWW for 5 out of 10 against Mount last year.

gordonmann

QuoteAnd I wonder if I'll be alive for the year when Mt. Union doesn't start off number 1

You were alive in 2005, right? :)

pg04

Quote from: gordonmann on August 08, 2008, 09:57:16 PM
QuoteAnd I wonder if I'll be alive for the year when Mt. Union doesn't start off number 1

You were alive in 2005, right? :)


Nope, that was the year I was cryogenically frozen.

K-Mack

Quote from: retagent on August 08, 2008, 04:24:36 PM
I don't have a strong disagreement with you K-Mack, but by that same reasoning, Mt Union, and certainly UWW are subject to downgrading. I'm going a lot on what those who have shown themselves to be knowledgeable on the MIACCPP, and news releases are revealing.

I actually think you're right.

But one thing they do have going for them, which bumps them up in a D3 poll the way it wouldn't in a D1 poll, is having played in three consecutive Stagg Bowls. Not only are they benefitting from the obvious recruiting advantages of playing on TV and in a championship game for three consecutive seasons, but their younger players have the benefit of as many as 15 additional weeks of practice and/or games.

So while I tend to look at experience returning as a major factor in the preseason polls, the idea that a Mount Union rising junior who had been on the playoff roster twice has 30 weeks/games of experience, the same experience as a rising senior on a perfectly good team which has never made the playoffs, or about the same as a team which has played 31 or 32 games in that span.

Certainly there are other teams who have gained significantly from all the extra weeks of practice per the playoffs over the past three years (Wesley and UMHB come to mind first), and certainly not all their young players were on the playoff roster each time.

However, I think you have to factor that in some when looking at those two teams in particular, offsetting the complete lack of starting experience. Also, we might be getting a little abstract if I go this far, but having championship expectations in your program I bet does wonders for getting the young players on board and getting them to buy into a workmanlike attitude.

For Kehres (and probably Gagliardi too) it's established, their job is just to maintain it. For Leipold, he's also got to keep the ball rolling in that UWW program, lest another WIAC program strike while they're "weak."
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on August 08, 2008, 05:03:35 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on August 08, 2008, 04:42:09 PM
Is there anyone in here who thinks Mount Union would beat W-Whitwater 9/10 times last season?  Im not saying I do, but I was just wondering....

I MIGHT go 6 or 7 of 10, but no way would I go 9/10. :P

Yeah, I've seen a lot of upsets where you say "no way that team beats that other team in that way again," but I thought all three UWW-MUC matchups were in the 6/10 range either way. Neither team blew the other off the field, although the first year MUC did have a 28-7 lead. But in the same way the replay overturn/UWW goal-line stand was a big play last year, the Pete Schmitt not TD (via replay) before the half in the first Stagg Bowl kept that from being 14-14 at the break.

I think every Stagg Bowl I've seen since MUC-Trinity has been a hell of a matchup.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on August 11, 2008, 11:38:51 PM

I think every Stagg Bowl I've seen since MUC-Trinity has been a hell of a matchup.
I agree.   Don't you wish that Trinity had had their QB!   :P