Pool C 2018

Started by bluestreak66, October 14, 2018, 02:30:51 PM

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MRMIKESMITH

Quote from: hazzben on November 12, 2018, 10:20:53 AM
Quote from: art76 on November 12, 2018, 09:50:18 AM
Thanx for another fine year of hosting this thread, Wally!

Seconded. I can't imagine the amount of thought and effort that goes into this. We've got to be the best informed fans in college football. Seriously, I'll take what we get from the front page and these boards over anything ESPN serves up for the FBS/FCS Power 5 any day.

wally_wabash

Appreciate that, gentlemen.  I did bit more collaboration with the site this year so time constraints and not wanting to duplicate content here in the forum meant that some of the deep dive stuff that I usually do in here ended up elsewhere.  I hope everybody was able to find our conversations and analyses on rankings and at-large teams in the last 10 days or so on the various platforms (site columns, podcasts, etc.). 

We don't have final regional rankings yet, but we know from Catanzaro's conversation in ATN today that Linfield, Ithaca, and Wabash were left on the board.  He didn't directly confirm that Muhlenberg was the last team in (he told me on the ITH interview that he couldn't say what order the teams were picked), but I see Bethel, John Carroll, and Centre all have home games.  Hardin-Simmons is a casualty of geography and were probably always going to be on the road (either to Whitworth or UMHB).  And then Muhlenberg is on the road which signals to me that Centre went off before Muhlenberg.  Catanzaro also talked about Trinity beating Berry having an effect on where teams were ranked, so I think we really got that part right in our projection on Saturday night. 

Other at-large reactions:
- Not taking a shot here, but I'm kind of glad that Linfield did not make this tournament.  Catanzaro said that the secondary criteria really didn't come up, but had Linfield been in, there's a dangerous precedent to set there regarding non-division games.  I'm happy that we don't have to deal with that. 
- The end of the selection process probably wasn't as tricky as it has been recently.  We'll always be left to wonder "what if" the committee was talking about IWU or Wheaton on that board with top strengths of schedule and a multitude of ranked results.   We're kind of beating this idea into the ground here, but the primary criteria are not "sort by" commands in sequence. 
- Not super pumped that they put three Cs in the same region.  They probably could have shuffled, if not the whole pods, just the John Carroll and Frostburg pairings to spread the Cs out a little more. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

MonroviaCat

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 12, 2018, 11:05:49 AM
Appreciate that, gentlemen.  I did bit more collaboration with the site this year so time constraints and not wanting to duplicate content here in the forum meant that some of the deep dive stuff that I usually do in here ended up elsewhere.  I hope everybody was able to find our conversations and analyses on rankings and at-large teams in the last 10 days or so on the various platforms (site columns, podcasts, etc.). 

We don't have final regional rankings yet, but we know from Catanzaro's conversation in ATN today that Linfield, Ithaca, and Wabash were left on the board.  He didn't directly confirm that Muhlenberg was the last team in (he told me on the ITH interview that he couldn't say what order the teams were picked), but I see Bethel, John Carroll, and Centre all have home games.  Hardin-Simmons is a casualty of geography and were probably always going to be on the road (either to Whitworth or UMHB).  And then Muhlenberg is on the road which signals to me that Centre went off before Muhlenberg.  Catanzaro also talked about Trinity beating Berry having an effect on where teams were ranked, so I think we really got that part right in our projection on Saturday night. 

Other at-large reactions:
- Not taking a shot here, but I'm kind of glad that Linfield did not make this tournament.  Catanzaro said that the secondary criteria really didn't come up, but had Linfield been in, there's a dangerous precedent to set there regarding non-division games.  I'm happy that we don't have to deal with that. 
- The end of the selection process probably wasn't as tricky as it has been recently.  We'll always be left to wonder "what if" the committee was talking about IWU or Wheaton on that board with top strengths of schedule and a multitude of ranked results.   We're kind of beating this idea into the ground here, but the primary criteria are not "sort by" commands in sequence. 
- Not super pumped that they put three Cs in the same region.  They probably could have shuffled, if not the whole pods, just the John Carroll and Frostburg pairings to spread the Cs out a little more.
As a Linfield guy---I didn't expect the CATS to get in and I get what you are saying....that being said--scheduling is not always easy for Linfield so sometimes you take what you can get.. speaking of which--I'm told that next year Linfield is opening up (I think) at Rowan!
Go Cats!

GillCJ1

Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 12, 2018, 11:56:11 AM
As a Linfield guy---I didn't expect the CATS to get in and I get what you are saying....that being said--scheduling is not always easy for Linfield so sometimes you take what you can get.. speaking of which--I'm told that next year Linfield is opening up (I think) at Rowan!

This is fantastic if true.
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Ralph Turner

Thanks for the Final Regional Rankings.

wesleydad

Quote from: CRUnk01 on November 12, 2018, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 12, 2018, 11:56:11 AM
As a Linfield guy---I didn't expect the CATS to get in and I get what you are saying....that being said--scheduling is not always easy for Linfield so sometimes you take what you can get.. speaking of which--I'm told that next year Linfield is opening up (I think) at Rowan!

This is fantastic if true.

agree, i will make that trip and I dont like rowan.  I will be a closet linfield fan at that game.

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: wesleydad on November 12, 2018, 08:13:26 PM
Quote from: CRUnk01 on November 12, 2018, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 12, 2018, 11:56:11 AM
As a Linfield guy---I didn't expect the CATS to get in and I get what you are saying....that being said--scheduling is not always easy for Linfield so sometimes you take what you can get.. speaking of which--I'm told that next year Linfield is opening up (I think) at Rowan!

This is fantastic if true.

agree, i will make that trip and I dont like rowan.  I will be a closet linfield fan at that game.

Considering the distance from Linfield, you might double their fanbase at the game! ;D

MonroviaCat

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 12, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 12, 2018, 08:13:26 PM
Quote from: CRUnk01 on November 12, 2018, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 12, 2018, 11:56:11 AM
As a Linfield guy---I didn't expect the CATS to get in and I get what you are saying....that being said--scheduling is not always easy for Linfield so sometimes you take what you can get.. speaking of which--I'm told that next year Linfield is opening up (I think) at Rowan!

This is fantastic if true.

agree, i will make that trip and I dont like rowan.  I will be a closet linfield fan at that game.

Considering the distance from Linfield, you might double their fanbase at the game! ;D
i dunno...some of might use it as a reason to take a trip to the east
Go Cats!

FCGrizzliesGrad

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 11, 2018, 09:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 11, 2018, 08:17:18 PM
Interesting question for you Wallly... had Franklin won and thus (I assume) stayed in the rankings, that would have prevented Denison from entering at 10. Would the extra result the CCIW got from WashU entering the rankings be enough to pass the NCAC without the Denison results also being added?

One of my crazy scenarios for Week 11 involved most of this.  The missing piece was Wabash losing to DePauw, giving the NCAC AQ to Wittenberg, getting WashU ranked, and Wheaton in the on-deck circle in the North.  Wheaton maybe could have been in there. 

If Franklin had won and only WashU got ranked, I still don't think this North RAC was going to shuffle 2 loss teams in front of 1-loss teams on RRO alone.  The RRO situation was pretty overwhelming with or without WashU.  In the North RAC, 9-1 beats 8-2, unless 9-1 has an almost impossibly low SOS.
Looks like that scenario played out as Baldwin Wallace hung in at 10 keeping Denison out.

Also WashU jumped over Wheaton. Not saying whether it was right or wrong given the H2H, but what happened this week to jump them ahead? A 44-6 win over 3-7 Carroll apparently added more than a 79-0 win over 1-9 Elmhurst? Monmouth dropped 2 spots in the west rankings but is still ranked giving Wheaton 2-2 RRO vs WashU's 1-2.
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wally_wabash

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 12, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 11, 2018, 09:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 11, 2018, 08:17:18 PM
Interesting question for you Wallly... had Franklin won and thus (I assume) stayed in the rankings, that would have prevented Denison from entering at 10. Would the extra result the CCIW got from WashU entering the rankings be enough to pass the NCAC without the Denison results also being added?

One of my crazy scenarios for Week 11 involved most of this.  The missing piece was Wabash losing to DePauw, giving the NCAC AQ to Wittenberg, getting WashU ranked, and Wheaton in the on-deck circle in the North.  Wheaton maybe could have been in there. 

If Franklin had won and only WashU got ranked, I still don't think this North RAC was going to shuffle 2 loss teams in front of 1-loss teams on RRO alone.  The RRO situation was pretty overwhelming with or without WashU.  In the North RAC, 9-1 beats 8-2, unless 9-1 has an almost impossibly low SOS.
Looks like that scenario played out as Baldwin Wallace hung in at 10 keeping Denison out.

Also WashU jumped over Wheaton. Not saying whether it was right or wrong given the H2H, but what happened this week to jump them ahead? A 44-6 win over 3-7 Carroll apparently added more than a 79-0 win over 1-9 Elmhurst? Monmouth dropped 2 spots in the west rankings but is still ranked giving Wheaton 2-2 RRO vs WashU's 1-2.

So, there was a similar scenario in the East rankings last week where MIT (unranked in the first RRs) came out of nowhere to be ranked ahead of USMMA in the second RRs.  MIT has a h2h win over USMMA- that was there prior to the first RRs so why wasn't MIT ranked to begin with if they were going to be ahead of USMMA?  No idea.  My best explanation for this is that in the first round, MIT wasn't ranked in the top 10 and so they didn't really have to consider that h2h.  Out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.  Then some teams lost and that got MIT ranked in the top 10.  Now, once they're on the same top 10 as USMMA, you kind of have to honor that h2h and put them in front.  Yes, that's really silly. 

So same deal with WashU.  Once Franklin lost and made room for WashU, WashU had to go in front of Wheaton because h2h which they only really had to pay strict attention to once both teams were actually ranked. 

I do not endorse this methodology of ignoring h2h results until two teams that played each other are both in the top 10, but I think that's what is going on. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

wesleydad

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 13, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 12, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 11, 2018, 09:05:29 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 11, 2018, 08:17:18 PM
Interesting question for you Wallly... had Franklin won and thus (I assume) stayed in the rankings, that would have prevented Denison from entering at 10. Would the extra result the CCIW got from WashU entering the rankings be enough to pass the NCAC without the Denison results also being added?

One of my crazy scenarios for Week 11 involved most of this.  The missing piece was Wabash losing to DePauw, giving the NCAC AQ to Wittenberg, getting WashU ranked, and Wheaton in the on-deck circle in the North.  Wheaton maybe could have been in there. 

If Franklin had won and only WashU got ranked, I still don't think this North RAC was going to shuffle 2 loss teams in front of 1-loss teams on RRO alone.  The RRO situation was pretty overwhelming with or without WashU.  In the North RAC, 9-1 beats 8-2, unless 9-1 has an almost impossibly low SOS.
Looks like that scenario played out as Baldwin Wallace hung in at 10 keeping Denison out.

Also WashU jumped over Wheaton. Not saying whether it was right or wrong given the H2H, but what happened this week to jump them ahead? A 44-6 win over 3-7 Carroll apparently added more than a 79-0 win over 1-9 Elmhurst? Monmouth dropped 2 spots in the west rankings but is still ranked giving Wheaton 2-2 RRO vs WashU's 1-2.

So, there was a similar scenario in the East rankings last week where MIT (unranked in the first RRs) came out of nowhere to be ranked ahead of USMMA in the second RRs.  MIT has a h2h win over USMMA- that was there prior to the first RRs so why wasn't MIT ranked to begin with if they were going to be ahead of USMMA?  No idea.  My best explanation for this is that in the first round, MIT wasn't ranked in the top 10 and so they didn't really have to consider that h2h.  Out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.  Then some teams lost and that got MIT ranked in the top 10.  Now, once they're on the same top 10 as USMMA, you kind of have to honor that h2h and put them in front.  Yes, that's really silly. 

So same deal with WashU.  Once Franklin lost and made room for WashU, WashU had to go in front of Wheaton because h2h which they only really had to pay strict attention to once both teams were actually ranked. 

I do not endorse this methodology of ignoring h2h results until two teams that played each other are both in the top 10, but I think that's what is going on.

Would seem to me that the winner of the h2h should have been on the list to start with instead of the team that lost if the winning team was close to being on the list in the first place.

art76

Three pool c teams still alive after round one.

Go Bethel!
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You have a body. - C.S. Lewis

Ralph Turner

Quote from: art76 on November 17, 2018, 03:59:59 PM
Three pool c teams still alive after round one.

Go Bethel!
And a 4th Pool C team that was either a #3 or a #4 seed was paired with the #1.
One would expect that to be a 4th win for Pool C with a National Bracket

Ralph Turner

12 monkey stomps of the 16 first round games and 3 road wins.

Kira & Jaxon's Dad

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2018, 07:07:50 PM
12 monkey stomps of the 16 first round games and 3 road wins.

Please remind me what the definition of a monkey stomp.

21 point defeat?
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