2015 D3 Season: NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE

Started by D3soccerwatcher, February 08, 2015, 12:49:03 AM

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Mr.Right

I believe one program that has potential is UMASS Dartmouth. They are in the Little East conference and in a soccer rich area close to Fall River, New Bedford and Providence RI. There is a ton of Portuguese talent in the area and they have a large undergraduate base. If they ever got the right coach in there and made him full time they could do very well.

oldonionbag

Quote from: Mr.Right on March 26, 2015, 09:03:54 AM
I believe one program that has potential is UMASS Dartmouth. They are in the Little East conference and in a soccer rich area close to Fall River, New Bedford and Providence RI. There is a ton of Portuguese talent in the area and they have a large undergraduate base. If they ever got the right coach in there and made him full time they could do very well.

Great point, Mr. Right. They have been on the bubble for some time. If they can nail their recruiting of local kids, especially kids who might slip through the cracks that play in the LASA league (as I did so long ago) and convince them to attend UMD, I think they will be very, very good. There is a TON of hidden talent in the Fall River/New Bedford (and Taunton) area.

D3soccerwatcher

Quote from: Mr.Right on March 26, 2015, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: 2xfaux on March 25, 2015, 11:19:45 AM
I am sure you folks have talked about this before.  Messiah does not play football.  Men's Soccer is the top of the food chain.


This is helpful but guarantees nothing. Conn College is the only Nescac school without football and they benefit by usually getting the biggest and rowdiest fans in Nescac. It is a nice home field advantage for them and that is it.

I agree with Mr Right..."helpful but guarantees nothing".  Wheaton (IL) has a perennial top 20 football team and is among the winningest soccer teams in the country and also has higher attendance at their soccer games then virtually all other D3 schools. So football team or not -- probably doesn't have significant impact on soccer.


Nutmeg

What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

Falconer

There was a question earlier about the Messiah spring schedule. I ran into one of the players a couple of weeks ago when I stopped in to see someone else, and got a chance to ask about this--all scrimmages or friendlies (whatever you want to call them), basically, whether spring or late summer. I don't recall which ones were in the spring, but I recall some names: Johns Hopkins (I know that sounds wrong, but it's what I heard), Princeton, another Ivy (I think it was Columbia but perhaps it was Penn whom they have played in the past), and one other opponent was uncertain but will probably turn out to be a NY/NJ area team (if it happens). Sorry for the vagueness of this comment, but I sense that things were still a bit in flux at that point.

Falconer

With all of the discussion about Messiah vs other Christian colleges (relative to recruiting), and their heightened success since the late 1990s (when Brandt took over from Shoemaker), I wanted to mention some other, non-soccer factors that could be relevant to this. Messiah is (a) substantially larger in size and (b) much stronger academically than it was when Shoemaker started coaching. I don't have the exact numbers at hand, but it's got to be at least twice as large, with many more faculty from top graduate programs (judging from what they show in their online catalog) and a whole lot more academic majors to pick from. An example is their engineering program, which was always respected but has gotten to the point that it's becoming maybe the largest program at the school. I understand that they just added civil engineering (which makes sense, since the state capital is nearby and that's where a lot of that type of work originates), and that engineering had more incoming students this year than any other major. I don't know how many players study engineering, but I think one of the POY players (Geoff Pezon) did. I know that another really good player maybe ten years ago, an AA defender, was an engineering student. I don't think Wheaton offers engineering as a full program on campus--you have to go somewhere else to finish, so you can't play 4 years there. Engineering obviously pays very well, so this has to matter to some of the players Messiah recruits.

They also do very well placing students in medical school and other medical grad programs, and those programs aren't small. I saw an announcement a couple of years ago about Messiah now having some automatic admission programs with Jefferson (an excellent medical school in Philly) in 2 or 3 professional programs, so that if you get a certain GPA in certain courses at Messiah than you are automatically admitted to Jefferson. Their science students work with faculty on research that gets published--a lot of it, judging from the large number of posters (the students apparently make those for their projects) that you can see if you walk through their science buildings. They get a big audience every spring for a program where students present their work, and a lot of them are going to good graduate schools.

They have a lot of public events at Messiah, too, some of them featuring their own faculty, and they are usually pretty good.

And they have a big honors program that gives big academic scholarships. I think some soccer players qualify for those.

This is different from when Layton started coaching, so Brandt and McCarty obviously have a much stronger school to sell to recruits. Not to mention that Messiah isn't really the same kind of place as Liberty (the D1 school that's been mentioned). I doubt Messiah qualifies as "liberal" in most people's minds--they aren't a party school, and they promote traditional Christian values--but they don't project the same kind of hard-nosed religious stance that Liberty projects. I know quite a few young people who've chosen Messiah over Liberty (I know some who did the reverse, too), and that's what I hear from them.

All of these could be factors. Obviously their soccer success is the biggest reason, but Messiah has to be getting some recruits who just want Messiah for reasons like these also.


D3soccerwatcher

Quote from: Nutmeg on March 26, 2015, 11:20:19 PM
What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

I've read a lot about NESCAC football games interfering with soccer games.  So I just randomly picked a top NESCAC soccer school that I know (Amherst) to see how this really plays out. 

Here's what I found from the 2014 season:

Amherst soccer played 21 games
3 of Amherst's home soccer games were on the same day as a home Amherst football game
None of these football games were scheduled at the same starting time as the soccer games
There was at least an hour-and-an-half to two-hour offset in starting time for those three "overlapping" games

With only three home soccer games potentially impacted by football and with the offset times, I can't imagine that 3 semi-conflicting football games are having much of an impact on a 21 game soccer season

Nutmeg

Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 28, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 26, 2015, 11:20:19 PM
What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

I've read a lot about NESCAC football games interfering with soccer games.  So I just randomly picked a top NESCAC soccer school that I know (Amherst) to see how this really plays out. 

Here's what I found from the 2014 season:

Amherst soccer played 21 games
3 of Amherst's home soccer games were on the same day as a home Amherst football game
None of these football games were scheduled at the same starting time as the soccer games
There was at least an hour-and-an-half to two-hour offset in starting time for those three "overlapping" games

With only three home soccer games potentially impacted by football and with the offset times, I can't imagine that 3 semi-conflicting football games are having much of an impact on a 21 game soccer season

I know that Tufts soccer and football overlap on homecoming and parents weekend and haven't checked the other dates but those are 2 big weekends

1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 28, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 26, 2015, 11:20:19 PM
What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

I've read a lot about NESCAC football games interfering with soccer games.  So I just randomly picked a top NESCAC soccer school that I know (Amherst) to see how this really plays out. 

Here's what I found from the 2014 season:

Amherst soccer played 21 games
3 of Amherst's home soccer games were on the same day as a home Amherst football game
None of these football games were scheduled at the same starting time as the soccer games
There was at least an hour-and-an-half to two-hour offset in starting time for those three "overlapping" games

With only three home soccer games potentially impacted by football and with the offset times, I can't imagine that 3 semi-conflicting football games are having much of an impact on a 21 game soccer season

Worst example to pick, as Amherst even plays night football games on their new field.  The point was brought up not to demonstrate how simultaneous football and soccer scheduling impacts a particular team's home soccer attendance.  It is a league wide practice for the traveling NESCAC college to bring all of their fall teams to the hosting college.  So there will be 4 simultaneous or nearly simultaneous athletic contests taking place at any given NESCAC school on a fall weekend.  It detracts from men's soccer attendance in general.

Nutmeg

Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on March 28, 2015, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 28, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 26, 2015, 11:20:19 PM
What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

I've read a lot about NESCAC football games interfering with soccer games.  So I just randomly picked a top NESCAC soccer school that I know (Amherst) to see how this really plays out. 

Here's what I found from the 2014 season:

Amherst soccer played 21 games
3 of Amherst's home soccer games were on the same day as a home Amherst football game
None of these football games were scheduled at the same starting time as the soccer games
There was at least an hour-and-an-half to two-hour offset in starting time for those three "overlapping" games

With only three home soccer games potentially impacted by football and with the offset times, I can't imagine that 3 semi-conflicting football games are having much of an impact on a 21 game soccer season

Worst example to pick, as Amherst even plays night football games on their new field.  The point was brought up not to demonstrate how simultaneous football and soccer scheduling impacts a particular team's home soccer attendance.  It is a league wide practice for the traveling NESCAC college to bring all of their fall teams to the hosting college.  So there will be 4 simultaneous or nearly simultaneous athletic contests taking place at any given NESCAC school on a fall weekend.  It detracts from men's soccer attendance in general.

Yes....

D3soccerwatcher

#115
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 28, 2015, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on March 28, 2015, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 28, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 26, 2015, 11:20:19 PM
What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

I've read a lot about NESCAC football games interfering with soccer games.  So I just randomly picked a top NESCAC soccer school that I know (Amherst) to see how this really plays out. 

Here's what I found from the 2014 season:

Amherst soccer played 21 games
3 of Amherst's home soccer games were on the same day as a home Amherst football game
None of these football games were scheduled at the same starting time as the soccer games
There was at least an hour-and-an-half to two-hour offset in starting time for those three "overlapping" games

With only three home soccer games potentially impacted by football and with the offset times, I can't imagine that 3 semi-conflicting football games are having much of an impact on a 21 game soccer season

Worst example to pick, as Amherst even plays night football games on their new field.  The point was brought up not to demonstrate how simultaneous football and soccer scheduling impacts a particular team's home soccer attendance.  It is a league wide practice for the traveling NESCAC college to bring all of their fall teams to the hosting college.  So there will be 4 simultaneous or nearly simultaneous athletic contests taking place at any given NESCAC school on a fall weekend.  It detracts from men's soccer attendance in general.

Yes....

In 2014 Tufts football played 4 home games.  On only one of those dates did the Tufts soccer team also play the same team at home and the starting times on that one date where offset by an hour.  On two of the home football dates Tufts soccer played away.  On the other date, Tufts football played Bates at home and Tufts soccer played Amherst at home, with game times offset by an hour-and-an-half.

I've looked at the two top soccer teams in NESCAC (Tufts and Amherst) and I cannot find the direct connection with football.

D3soccerwatcher

Article on the Top Ten colleges for soccer in the country...

http://www.collegemagazine.com/top-10-colleges-for-soccer

Congrats to Messiah, coming in #2 in the country, and the only D3 college to appear on the list.

D3soccerwatcher

Jack Thompson (former D3 player, Messiah College) played his first professional game and scored his first professional goal for the USL PRO Charlotte Independence last week.  It was also the first team goal for the newly formed franchise.

http://www.charlotteindependence.com/charlotte-left-to-rue-first-half-errors/

Nutmeg

Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 29, 2015, 05:48:09 AM
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 28, 2015, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on March 28, 2015, 04:37:49 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 28, 2015, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on March 26, 2015, 11:20:19 PM
What I don't like about the NESCAC schedules is that the home football games are often played at the same time as the home soccer games....

I've read a lot about NESCAC football games interfering with soccer games.  So I just randomly picked a top NESCAC soccer school that I know (Amherst) to see how this really plays out. 

Here's what I found from the 2014 season:

Amherst soccer played 21 games
3 of Amherst's home soccer games were on the same day as a home Amherst football game
None of these football games were scheduled at the same starting time as the soccer games
There was at least an hour-and-an-half to two-hour offset in starting time for those three "overlapping" games

With only three home soccer games potentially impacted by football and with the offset times, I can't imagine that 3 semi-conflicting football games are having much of an impact on a 21 game soccer season

Worst example to pick, as Amherst even plays night football games on their new field.  The point was brought up not to demonstrate how simultaneous football and soccer scheduling impacts a particular team's home soccer attendance.  It is a league wide practice for the traveling NESCAC college to bring all of their fall teams to the hosting college.  So there will be 4 simultaneous or nearly simultaneous athletic contests taking place at any given NESCAC school on a fall weekend.  It detracts from men's soccer attendance in general.

Yes....

In 2014 Tufts football played 4 home games.  On only one of those dates did the Tufts soccer team also play the same team at home and the starting times on that one date where offset by an hour.  On two of the home football dates Tufts soccer played away.  On the other date, Tufts football played Bates at home and Tufts soccer played Amherst at home, with game times offset by an hour-and-an-half.

I've looked at the two top soccer teams in NESCAC (Tufts and Amherst) and I cannot find the direct connection with football.

You mention overlapping like it may not matter.... I think it does. I would be surprised if people plan to attend 2 consecutive events...it would be the exception rather than the norm....

Nutmeg

Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on March 29, 2015, 05:57:17 AM
Article on the Top Ten colleges for soccer in the country...

http://www.collegemagazine.com/top-10-colleges-for-soccer

Congrats to Messiah, coming in #2 in the country, and the only D3 college to appear on the list.

Congrats!  I am surprised the infamous tortilla throwing Gauchos aren't on that list, or Wheaton for that matter....