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General => General Division III issues => Topic started by: CKBeber329 on October 17, 2011, 10:44:25 AM

Title: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: CKBeber329 on October 17, 2011, 10:44:25 AM
http://www.iwctigers.com/article/790.php

Looks like they're interested in the SLIAC
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2011, 10:58:04 AM
Yep. Should be interesting, because that won't give their football team a home, and if they want to join the UMAC for football they may have trouble because the UMAC already has 10 football programs.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2011/10/iowa-wesleyan-applies-to-d3
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2011, 11:07:00 AM
Maybe they could play football in the SCAC  ;)
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: doolittledog on October 17, 2011, 11:22:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2011, 10:58:04 AM
Yep. Should be interesting, because that won't give their football team a home, and if they want to join the UMAC for football they may have trouble because the UMAC already has 10 football programs.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2011/10/iowa-wesleyan-applies-to-d3

The NAIA board mentioned Culver-Stockton was looking into D3 and the SLIAC as a possibility.  That would give the SLIAC 6 teams with the addition of Iowa Wesleyan?  Is that the magic number?  Or would they need a miracle like Principia or Blackburn bringing back their programs?
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2011, 01:27:34 PM
Well, they need to have seven. But if they have four, they can try to add other teams for football only to get to seven. I wouldn't encourage that for the SLIAC, though. They have a decent arrangement with the UMAC.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2011, 02:16:37 PM
And Finlandia still needs a home.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: doolittledog on December 09, 2011, 09:58:38 PM
Iowa Wesleyan has been accepted into the SLIAC.

http://www.sliac.org/Releases/2011-12/iwc_120811

That would make 5 of the 10 SLIAC schools with a football program.  Should be interesting if the SLIAC continues their football affiliation with the UMAC or if they try to form a football conference on their own. 
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2011, 10:11:58 PM
The five SLIAC schools with football programs will stay in the UMAC until they get two more SLIAC compatriots to join them on the gridiron. What would be the sense in breaking away from the UMAC at this point? They'd still be two schools short.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Gray Fox on December 10, 2011, 10:35:11 PM
Too bad Mckendree decided to go D2.  Their long term president, Jim Dennis, has D3 ties in that he played football at Occidental where his father had coached the Raisin Bowl victory and was later athletic director.  His son also played at Oxy.  Had the Bearcats joined the SLIAC, the SLIAC  would need only one more. :-\
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2012, 12:01:02 PM
Iowa Wesleyan has been accepted into the exploratory program for '12-13:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2012/february/diii+panel+suggests+consequences+for+not+meeting+conference+requirements

Joining them will be:

Alfred State College (Alfred, N.Y.)
Berea College (Berea, Ky.)
Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago, Ill.)
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2012, 04:05:37 PM
Does Alfred State offer football in D-III?

Which conference would be the best fit for Alfred?  SUNYAC? Or the NEAC and be a football affiliate somewhere?

Berea has the endowment (huge endowment) to join the SAA. Are they a better fit in the SAA or the Heartland?

What are people's thoughts on the IIT and IWU?
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2012, 06:08:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2012, 04:05:37 PM
Does Alfred State offer football in D-III?

I don't see why it shouldn't. I don't think that there'll be any additional costs involved, or at least they'll be minimal. The Pioneers will probably have to travel farther for road games than they are now in their largely juco-based schedule, but that'll probably be it as far as budget needs are concerned.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2012, 04:05:37 PMWhich conference would be the best fit for Alfred?  SUNYAC? Or the NEAC and be a football affiliate somewhere?

Alfred State would probably want to go SUNYAC, because it's a more established league and it's geographically more compact. But I'm not sure that the SUNYAC is looking to expand. The NEAC might be the best bet, although it's a league that currently has ten teams for most men's sports and twelve for most women's sports, which means that Alfred State would be causing an imbalance. Football is even more problematic, since neither the SUNYAC nor the NEAC offers the sport. And the two leagues that are the most logical home for the football Pioneers, the New England Football Conference and the NJAC, might not be good fits, again because of imbalance. The NEFC has two eight-team divisions already, and the NJAC is a ten-team league at the moment.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2012, 04:05:37 PMBerea has the endowment (huge endowment) to join the SAA. Are they a better fit in the SAA or the Heartland?

The SAA already has eight schools lined up, so the imbalance thing rears its ugly head again, although my impression is that Berea is academically up to par with the SAA schools. Berea would be the eleventh school in the Heartland, but I think that Transylvania might advocate adding Berea as a travel partner.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2012, 04:05:37 PMWhat are people's thoughts on the IIT and IWU?

It seems to me that the SLIAC is working to manage its ungainly new geographic footprint by having the two far-flung schools to east and west, Spalding and Iowa Wesleyan, respectively, play their contests against each other on the campuses of Webster and Fontbonne in St. Louis, near the halfway point between Spalding and IWC. I would imagine that if Iowa Wesleyan retains its football program, it'll attempt to follow the lead of the other SLIAC schools that carry football by applying for associate membership status in the UMAC for gridiron purposes.

Illinois Tech is a baffling case. It carries ten sports, five apiece on the men's side and the women's side, but it dropped what everyone who follows college athletics would consider to be the core sport, basketball, three years ago. It dropped both the men's program and the women's program. It seems obvious that IIT will seek to re-establish those two programs, both to make itself attractive to a prospective conference and to get up to the new twelve-sport minimum for D3. It just seemed weird, though, that IIT dropped the two basketball programs in the first place ... since it was inevitable that it would have to either add them all over again sooner or later, or else drop sports altogether. Turns out that it was "sooner" rather than later.

(I wonder if the drastically different sorts of institutions with which IIT shares the CCAC's Division One is what prompted the school's administration to drop basketball.)

The NAthCon, home of IIT's nearest analogous school (MSOE), would seem to be the logical place for IIT to land if/when it enters D3.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2012, 06:11:35 PM
One other thought: If Canton State goes through the four-year probationary pipeline as well (it's currently concluding an exploratory year), the Kangaroos might be a good entry partner with Alfred State in order to redress those imbalance issues.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: cush on March 09, 2012, 11:55:31 AM
I always thought Berea would be a good fit going d3. However, I'm not sure how that will work at the d3 level given everybody at the school has a free scholarship. What conference to join? Heartland or SAA seems like the best bet and i would think both would gladly offer them a spot. Heartland could go to 12 with TM.  Also think the saa should really try to get to 10 members with W&L too but if they don't want to move, transylvania really also fits their profile and would compact travel with 3 school's in kentucky.

http://news.blogs.wlu.edu/2012/01/10/remember-when-the-cac-is-born/



Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 09, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
Quote from: cush on March 09, 2012, 11:55:31 AM
I always thought Berea would be a good fit going d3. However, I'm not sure how that will work at the d3 level given everybody at the school has a free scholarship. What conference to join? Heartland or SAA seems like the best bet and i would think both would gladly offer them a spot. Heartland could go to 12 with TM.  Also think the saa should really try to get to 10 members with W&L too but if they don't want to move, transylvania really also fits their profile and would compact travel with 3 school's in kentucky.

http://news.blogs.wlu.edu/2012/01/10/remember-when-the-cac-is-born/

It would work fine in Division III. The rule in Division III is that you are treated the same whether you play a sport or not. At Berea you get a scholarship if you attend there whether you  play a sport or not. Granted other schools may be hesitant to let them join their conference but under Division III rules they would be fine.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 12:41:18 PM
Berea doesn't offer athletics scholarships. Almost every D-3 school has full-ride scholarships that they can offer (I got one at Wabash) and that in no way affects their D-3 status.

Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on March 09, 2012, 01:36:40 PM
But at Berea everybody gets full tuition. But the athelete would need to meet those standards. Looking at the the admission requirements:

QuoteAdmission to Berea College is academically competitive. We have a limited number of spaces in each year's entering class, and are looking for students with strong academic potential who are financially deserving.In 2010, more than half of incoming freshmen graduated in the top 20% of their high school class.

Most of our students score between 20 and 30 on the ACT (1410 -1980 SAT) and have a cumulative high school GPA of at least 3.0 in a strong College Prep curriculum. We also consider other factors such as community service, leadership qualities, and levels of motivation.

So it looks like Financial need is a big part of getting in.
QuoteSince Berea College provides a remarkable opportunity for promising students of limited economic resources by awarding all admitted students a four-year tuition scholarship, the College has established a policy for determining each family's financial eligibility for admission, based on the Expected Family Contribution (EFC) from the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA).

Please use the quick financial estimator for a simple way to better understand if you will meet Berea's financial qualification requirement.

Not ready to apply, but interested in learning more about your likelihood of qualifying and the first year cost of attending Berea? Please use the Berea College Cost Estimator.

However, please remember that these are only general guidelines. Final determination of financial eligibility could be affected by many factors such as number of family members in college, untaxed income, and social security benefits.

Couldn't use their cost estimator I received errors in Firefox and IE.

But my guess is your EFC must be below a certain level. So not sure this would give them any "unfair" advatage. If a families EFC is low enough and the grades are where they need to be most d# schools may be competitive.

If you look at their record in the NAIA it is not impressive in baseball, I have to believe the same would hold up when transferring to D3. They may have more success, but not overwhelmingly more. 

Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Just Bill on March 09, 2012, 02:02:15 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 12:41:18 PM
Berea doesn't offer athletics scholarships. Almost every D-3 school has full-ride scholarships that they can offer (I got one at Wabash) and that in no way affects their D-3 status.

Exactly. The only catch is you can't be giving scholarships to student-athletes at a higher rate or amount than you do the general student population. And obviously, they can't be for athletic performance.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2012, 02:52:08 PM
A friend of mine (physician and professor of obstetrics and gynecology at a UAA school) is a Berea alum.

His children did not qualify to attend Berea because of the "Financial need" criterion.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2012, 03:10:00 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 09, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
Quote from: cush on March 09, 2012, 11:55:31 AM
I always thought Berea would be a good fit going d3. However, I'm not sure how that will work at the d3 level given everybody at the school has a free scholarship. What conference to join? Heartland or SAA seems like the best bet and i would think both would gladly offer them a spot. Heartland could go to 12 with TM.  Also think the saa should really try to get to 10 members with W&L too but if they don't want to move, transylvania really also fits their profile and would compact travel with 3 school's in kentucky.

http://news.blogs.wlu.edu/2012/01/10/remember-when-the-cac-is-born/

It would work fine in Division III. The rule in Division III is that you are treated the same whether you play a sport or not. At Berea you get a scholarship if you attend there whether you  play a sport or not. Granted other schools may be hesitant to let them join their conference but under Division III rules they would be fine.
I don't think that switching to D-III will dramatically change their historical competitiveness relative to the colleges that they have played as a NAIA-2 member.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: WashedUp on March 10, 2012, 08:58:30 AM
Quote from: cush on March 09, 2012, 11:55:31 AM
I always thought Berea would be a good fit going d3. However, I'm not sure how that will work at the d3 level given everybody at the school has a free scholarship.

Coast Guard is a member of D3 and, like the other service academies, fully funds tuition.
Title: Re: Iowa Wesleyan to apply to DIII
Post by: Knightstalker on March 10, 2012, 11:53:02 AM
Quote from: WashedUp on March 10, 2012, 08:58:30 AM
Quote from: cush on March 09, 2012, 11:55:31 AM
I always thought Berea would be a good fit going d3. However, I'm not sure how that will work at the d3 level given everybody at the school has a free scholarship.

Coast Guard is a member of D3 and, like the other service academies, fully funds tuition.

In exchange for a 5 year commitment to the Coast Guard upon graduation.

Going  back to Alfred State, they would most likely join the SUNYAC for all sports but football where they would probably get an invite from the Empire?  The NJAC is losing three teams in the next couple of years as Buffalo State and Brockport State join the E? and West Conn leaves the NJAC.  If the E? has gone after Buff St and Brockport, Cortland can't be far behind but they may say Nuts to the E? due to old feelings.