Author Topic: Who Is running the Grinnell system?  (Read 88836 times)

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #330 on: November 27, 2016, 02:39:59 pm »
Having not seen Grinnell in person, what does it do differently than a team that also runs an uptempo offense?

So there are five basic numerical goals for each game.  They attempt to shoot 100 shots per game, with at least half coming from 3.  They want to force 32 turnovers, shoot 30 times more than their opponent, and rebound at least 33% of their missed shots on offense.

To get to those numbers, they generally press full court - but with all five players in the back court - usually three guys chasing the ball, one in support and a fifth as the fail-safe at mid-court.  Typically, if the opponent breaks the press, they just let them get a lay-up and hurry the ball back down the floor.

In order to play this pace and speed (and with this aggressive a defense), they rotate five new players in, roughly every minute - sometimes they'll even foul on purpose to get a stoppage of play to substitute.  15-20 guys see the floor each game, rarely does anyone play more than 25 minutes.

As I've said before, when it's run well, it's a thing of beauty - the teams in the late 2000's with John Grotberg and Arsenault Jr were really, really fun to watch.  When it's not run well, it can get a bit ugly.

They do seem to change up the system a little for conference play, where the other teams have had 25 years to develop plans to play against it.  Against Greenville, yesterday, who runs the system as well, both teams abandoned the press by the second half and were settling for a lot more layups.

When it started, Arsenault had some of the math professors analyze some of the numbers (I'm sure you could do so in a much more sophisticated way now), but when they hit all five of those targets above, they almost never lose.  Hitting the targets is pretty tough, though.

There really is no offense - they've got a few picks and rotations to try and get the shooters free, but the whole thing is predicated on running the defense well.  A good press is the key to making it work (you also need guys who can put up 30 threes night after night and make 30% of them or so).

When you see these uptempo teams, like Rhodes, you can see if they're running the system pretty quickly by looking at the shooting totals.  90 shots per game is pretty common for a high scoring team, but 50 3pts attempted is more rare.  Greenville had a lot of games that look like Rhodes' box scores as they were implementing the System, so maybe Rhodes is just early in the process, but you can score a lot of points with other types of play.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #331 on: December 03, 2016, 12:18:56 pm »

Rhodes latest game against Eau Claire looks a lot more like a team trying to run The System.  They didn't do well reaching the numerical goals, but it looks like they're trying. 
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Offline gordonmann

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #332 on: December 03, 2016, 04:09:03 pm »
Since a lot of other websites cross reference our old article describing Grinnell's system, we might as well do it too...

http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2003-04/grinnell-system-begins-to-take-hold

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #333 on: December 19, 2016, 04:48:03 pm »
At some of the tournaments my daughters AAU team played in I saw a couple of AAU programs running the system or something extremely similar.  They were subbing out player 5 at a time at the most for two minutes before another hockey line change.  They were all NJ programs.

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Offline 7express

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #334 on: December 27, 2016, 11:54:45 am »
Once they learned 'The System', Greenville has now won 7 of their last 8.  They'll probably still finish within the range of their last decade's finishes, but who knows what next year might hold (unless the SLIAC's other teams have figured them out).

Anyone tracking who besides Grinnell and Greenville (men) and NCC (women) is still running 'The System'?

I know the Westfield State women were doing it last year and the beginning of this year, and having seen them in person they had the makings of it (hockey line changes every 70 seconds or so, full court press, shoot lots of 3 pointers), but haven't checked any of their box scores since like Thanksgiving, so not sure whether they are still running it or not.
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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #335 on: December 27, 2016, 02:46:05 pm »
I think they still attempt it, according to some box scores.

Offline gordonmann

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #336 on: January 12, 2017, 11:40:26 pm »
For those entertained, enraged or just interested in Grinnell's system, Ryan Scott has an excellent column in this week's Around the Nation describing how it has spread and evolved at other Division III schools.

http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/system-here-to-stay

It's sort of like a mic drop answer to the question that headlines this room. :)

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #337 on: January 14, 2017, 09:22:18 am »

So, beyond d3 and the five programs in the story, I also found Olivet Nazarene women, Asbury men (both NAIA), and the Sacramento State women (D1) are running some modified version (the coach ran the System at other schools where he's coached).
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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #338 on: November 29, 2017, 11:34:46 pm »
I'm curious, are the U New England men running it this year? The box scores seem to suggest they are.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #339 on: November 30, 2017, 07:28:03 am »
I'm curious, are the U New England men running it this year? The box scores seem to suggest they are.

I think so. I watched part of their game with Bowdoin, but it was tight and down the stretch, where some of the principles of the System can sometimes give way to trying to win the game.  UNE and Coach Silva have run uptempo offense with pressing for many years.  They may just be playing the numbers and shooting more threes.  I did see a little bit of Grinnell defense in some of their presses, but these days the System isn't nearly so monolithic anymore.  I think we'll see a lot of hybrids, especially now that the Rockets are running an offense that can produce box scores similar to the System (and now that Grinnell's boxscores don't look as much like the System as they used to).
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #340 on: November 30, 2017, 07:28:49 am »

On another note, the West Conn women are almost certainly running some variation of it - and doing it very well for a team new to it.
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