Future of Division III

Started by Ralph Turner, October 10, 2005, 07:27:51 PM

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Ron Boerger

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2018, 05:32:00 PM
The SCAC makes more sense for the University of St Thomas Celts than the NAIA Red River AC.

It does make sense for UST TX  to be a travel partner for Centenary tho'. Maybe the infrastructure bill will hasten the completion of IH-69 from Houston to Shreveport.   ;)

They offer:

Men:  XC, Soccer, Hoops and Golf
Women: VB, XC, Soccer, Hoops and Golf.

The logical addition is Tennis for a 5th sport. I am not sure if there is a natatorium nearby. That campus is in the middle of very upscale west Houston.

They've already announced the following:
2018-2019: add men's and women's cross country.
2019-2020: add men's and women's tennis and baseball.

Altho it might make sense for them to match up with Centenary, given the location of the other schools they might actually pair with TLU depending on the sport.

Schreiner/Trinity
TLU/UST
CC/J&W
AC/Centenary
SW/UDallas

or

Schreiner/TU
TLU/SW
CC/J&W
AC/UD
UST/Centenary

Naw, on 2nd thought you are right, Ralph, the 2nd alignment makes more sense if all ten schools are involved.

This is a tribute to Dwayne Hanberry, the SCAC commissioner, who was able to stop the bleeding by convincing TLU, Schreiner, and Centenary to come to a league at death's door and has now brought two new schools into D3 from the wilds of the NAIA to help ensure continuity (and reduce the travel mess whenever CC was involved on a two-team weekend).

Gregory Sager

He's also created an insurance policy of sorts for the league. If Colorado College and/or Johnson & Wales (CO) ever drop SCAC membership due to travel issues, the league now has eight other members to ensure both that the AQ remains intact and that there's an even number of teams (and viable travel partnering) to prevent scheduling from being disrupted.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

BBeber1


Ron Boerger

Bob Jones would be the first D3 program in South Carolina.  I have a feeling they will find the level of competition much higher in D3 than NCCAA D2.   The next question is where will they land, as you notice there was no pre-announcement of a sponsoring conference.  They're not SAA material; the USA South, with 15 schools, might be a possibility.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
...I think so, with USA South parent allowing affiliates to hold access to the Football AQ.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2018, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
...I think so, with USA South parent allowing affiliates to hold access to the Football AQ.

Yeah... I could see that as well. That actually might help all of them solve the problem far easier and smoothly otherwise.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Gregory Sager

Perhaps, rather than break apart, the USA South could follow the MAC model and remain one unitary body with two discrete, geographically-based divisions (i.e., "conferences", to use the MAC language) that would give it both more manageability and a tighter travel footprint for each school while establishing an extra AQ for the sports in which it maintains those two "conferences".
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2018, 02:28:09 PM
Perhaps, rather than break apart, the USA South could follow the MAC model and remain one unitary body with two discrete, geographically-based divisions (i.e., "conferences", to use the MAC language) that would give it both more manageability and a tighter travel footprint for each school while establishing an extra AQ for the sports in which it maintains those two "conferences".
Wow. There is a thread almost as long as the single round robin NESCAC thread.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2018, 02:28:09 PM
Perhaps, rather than break apart, the USA South could follow the MAC model and remain one unitary body with two discrete, geographically-based divisions (i.e., "conferences", to use the MAC language) that would give it both more manageability and a tighter travel footprint for each school while establishing an extra AQ for the sports in which it maintains those two "conferences".

Not allowed. MAC is grandfathered in to that rule. NCAA has pushed them hard to be as separate as possible and has stated clearly (the division to be also clear) they won't allow it in the future.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

jeffconn

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
Don't think USA South will break apart anytime soon. After Ferrum leaves this summer, USA South will have 13 co-ed schools and 5 women's colleges. If USA South splits, one of the new conferences will not have enough men's programs for automatic qualifiers.


Ralph Turner

Quote from: jeffconn on March 01, 2018, 12:43:17 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
Don't think USA South will break apart anytime soon. After Ferrum leaves this summer, USA South will have 13 co-ed schools and 5 women's colleges. If USA South splits, one of the new conferences will not have enough men's programs for automatic qualifiers.
Please correct me as needed.

Would not Bob Jones be the 14th men's program after Ferrum leaves?

jeffconn

#2367
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 12:00:44 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on March 01, 2018, 12:43:17 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
Don't think USA South will break apart anytime soon. After Ferrum leaves this summer, USA South will have 13 co-ed schools and 5 women's colleges. If USA South splits, one of the new conferences will not have enough men's programs for automatic qualifiers.
Please correct me as needed.

Would not Bob Jones be the 14th men's program after Ferrum leaves?
Bob Jones hasn't applied to join the USA South yet. And even if it does, a split from 14 co-ed schools equals two 7 team conferences. And some men's sports would not have enough eligible teams to have two automatic qualifiers after a split.

Here's the numbers for some sports that USAS now sponsors in the 2017-18 year.
Football: 9, including Ferrum
Lacrosse: 9, including Ferrum
Cross country: 10, including Ferrum

That's 3 of the 8 men's sports that USA South now sponsors.

The USA South is a group of small private colleges, some of which barely sponsor enough sports to make the NCAA minimum for Division 3. Splitting up would be essentially like going back to being independent in those sports.

(modified by GS for formatting)

Ralph Turner

#2368
Quote from: jeffconn on March 01, 2018, 02:37:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 12:00:44 PM
Quote from: jeffconn on March 01, 2018, 12:43:17 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:59:39 AM
I believe USA South has them coming in, but honestly I've lost track with the craziness of the USA South. The news I am waiting to really hear is when does the USA South break apart. That is bound to happen.
Don't think USA South will break apart anytime soon. After Ferrum leaves this summer, USA South will have 13 co-ed schools and 5 women's colleges. If USA South splits, one of the new conferences will not have enough men's programs for automatic qualifiers.
Please correct me as needed.

Would not Bob Jones be the 14th men's program after Ferrum leaves?



Bob Jones hasn't applied to join the USA South yet. And even if it does, a split from 14 co-ed schools equals two 7 team conferences. And some men's sports would not have enough eligible teams to have two automatic qualifiers after a split.

Here's the numbers for some sports that USAS now sponsors in the 2017-18 year.
Football: 9, including Ferrum
Lacrosse: 9, including Ferrum
Cross country: 10, including Ferrum

That's 3 of the 8 men's sports that USA South now sponsors.

The USA South is a group of small private colleges, some of which barely sponsor enough sports to make the NCAA minimum for Division 3. Splitting up would be essentially like going back to being independent in those sports.
Thanks for your response.

The "New South Conference" would need to sponsor 5 men's sports, one in each season with 7 participants in each sport.

The USA South as parent conference would only need 4 of the remaining members to be the core members for the sports (e.g., Lacrosse and Football) and the departing members could continue as "Affiliates" without any change in the AQ.



In re-reading the thread, I clarified the breaks in the postings to reflect more accurately which poster stated which.


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

The five extra women's schools is what is really causing problems. BTW - not sure where else Bob Jones is going to go... so we might as well write them into the USA South at this point to replace Ferrum.

The conference is huge and they have a numbers issue especially with the fact that more schools in that area are starting to think about joining DIII (from what rumors say; we have to wait and see). The USA South has turned into a catch-all. A second conference isn't a horrible idea. Yes, I can see numbers issues, but maybe something will work its way out.

Personally, I've had an idea for all the women's schools, but I have said that enough times on Hoopsville.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.