The Top 10 West Region teams of the D3football.com Era

Started by wildcat11, July 11, 2007, 07:54:17 PM

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d-train

Something got me thinking about where the four Carroll College NAIA championship teams (2002-2005) would rank on this list of top West Region teams. Would they hold the top four spots? Be in the middle somewhere? There's just so little evidence to accurately gauge the level of play.

HScoach

Not sure if you want (or care) about an opinion from Ohio, but here's my thoughts on the best west team ever.  Please keep in mind the only time I saw any of these teams actually play was the Stagg Bowl, but here's my unwanted opinion anyway ;D:

2003 SJU - only team to handle MUC in last 15+ years / Blake Elliott was by far the best player in D3 that year (and one of the best ever) and was The Difference in the Stagg that won it for SJU.  In previous MUC/SJU games, MUC had the best individual player.  Not in 2003.  And it wasn't even close.

All other spots are open to debate, but not #1.  The following is just random thoughts (or lack thereof) and shouldn't be considered a listing in order.

The team I'm not sure where to rank is '05 WWW.  From a pure potential standpoint, I'd put the '05 WWW team way up the list.  I'm stilll not sure how that team with such great size/speed defensively and offense diversity lost to a MUC team that was very young, inconsistent and hurt by significant injuries.   Production wise, I'd put them middle of the pack from losing to a decent MUC team but that contrasts their drilling of SJU and the win at Linfield.  So I still don't know where to put them.

'04 Linfield is a "sexy" pick because of Brett Elliott at QB, but their showing against MHB in the Stagg was less than impressive in my eyes.  MHB was a very solid team, but they weren't supposed to be competitive with Linfield.  I also have a real hard to placing '04 Linfield above '05 WWW since they lost to them with the same team that won the championship in '04.  I know each season is different, but a young '05 WWW team shouldn't go on the road to the defending and senior dominated Champs and win.  That has to put WWW ahead of Linfield.

'99 PLU gets a bump from blasting Rowan in the Stagg, but KC Keeler and Company made a habit out of pissing down their leg in the Stagg.  So I have a hard time believing that PLU was really that much better than the rest of D3 even though the Stagg was a blowout.  Especially when you factor in that Keeler thought the only team in America that was a legit threat was MUC and forgot to show up in Salem, VA.  No doubt PLU was a great team on a mission, but their Stagg win isn't anywhere close to SJU's Stagg win due to the opposing coach.   

'06 WWW - on the plus side of the ledger, they returned everyone from '05 and was no longer in awe of being in the ESPN spotlight, played the season with the bullseye opposed to sneaking up on Linfield like '05, but was handled rather easily in the Stagg.  Injury to Beaver mid-season should have made them better.  Mitigating factor here is that the '06 MUC team was much, MUCH better than the '05 MUC team.  So I'd put '06 WWW a spot or two ahead of '05 WWW, but still can't decide where to place them on the overall list.

'00 SJU - very good team that was well coached.  Played an excellent game in Salem, but I came away from that game thinking that their best shot at MUC was that specific game.  Which is the exact opposite of how I felt about the '05 WWW/MUC game as I kind of thought MUC stole one and probably wouldn't if they played again.


If I had to rank them, I'd go as such though I'm not real confident in anything past #1:
1.  2003 SJU
2.  2006 WWW
3.  2005 WWW
4.  2004 Linfield
5.  1999 PLU
6.  2000 SJU

I put WWW ahead of Linfield simply based on their win at Linfield in '05.  If that game was a "lucky" win for WWW, then move Linfield to #2 and shift the two WWW teams to #3 and #4.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

wildcat11

Quote from: hscoach on August 08, 2007, 01:07:30 PM

'04 Linfield is a "sexy" pick because of Brett Elliott at QB, but their showing against MHB in the Stagg was less than impressive in my eyes.  MHB was a very solid team, but they weren't supposed to be competitive with Linfield.  I also have a real hard to placing '04 Linfield above '05 WWW since they lost to them with the same team that won the championship in '04.  I know each season is different, but a young '05 WWW team shouldn't go on the road to the defending and senior dominated Champs and win.  That has to put WWW ahead of Linfield.

The biggest change from the 05 Linfield team to the 04 Linfield team was two very good running backs (Thomas Ford and 04 Stagg MVP Riley Jenkins), also Linfield didn't return some key defensive players that played a huge roll in Linfield's defense coming on at the end of the 04 season and in winning the Stagg (Kelley Bertrand game winning sack, Zach Flemming's punt block, Eric Hillison's standout defensive performance)

If '05 Linfield had Ford and Jenkins in the backfield then Whitwater is only making one trip to the Stagg....IMO.

I don't think any team can be ranked above team's that actually win the Stagg no matter who they play.

D O.C.

Ford, Jenkins (who chose to pass up 1 more year eligibility) and GEORGE CARTER, let's not forget.

Where am I finding the time to compare and contrast this stuff? Ah well,  I got out into the surf today at least:

LINFIELD 2004

SCORING.......................          650          256
  Points Per Game.............       50.0         19.7

TOTAL OFFENSE.................         6641         4658
  Total Plays.................              906          954

3RD-DOWN CONVERSIONS..........       83/165       74/210
  3rd-Down Pct................                    50%          35%

SACKS BY-YARDS................       29-184        13-75



UWW  2006

SCORING.......................          542          181
  Points Per Game.............      36.1         12.1

TOTAL OFFENSE.................    6048         3535
  Total Plays.................           1025          938

3RD-DOWN CONVERSIONS..........       77/201       61/221
  3rd-Down Pct................                     38%          28%

SACKS BY-YARDS................       45-304        11-65

I am still at it.

HScoach

Quote from: wildcat11 on August 08, 2007, 02:04:33 PM
I don't think any team can be ranked above team's that actually win the Stagg no matter who they play.

Thanks for the insight on the players Linfield lost from '04.  That's info I didn't have. 

I do however, disagree with your statement above.  Case in point, the 1992 MUC team that lost to UW-LaCrosse (29-24) in the semi-finals was better than half the MUC teams that won a title.   In fact, most old-timer MUC folks might rank that non-championship team as one of the top 5 MUC teams of all time. 
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

footballfan413

#35
Quote from: hscoach on August 08, 2007, 01:07:30 PM
Not sure if you want (or care) about an opinion from Ohio, but here's my thoughts on the best west team ever.  Please keep in mind the only time I saw any of these teams actually play was the Stagg Bowl, but here's my unwanted opinion anyway ;D:

I put WWW ahead of Linfield simply based on their win at Linfield in '05.  If that game was a "lucky" win for WWW, then move Linfield to #2 and shift the two WWW teams to #3 and #4.


I appreciate the insight from, "an Ohioan."  IMHO, the only thing, "lucky," about UWW's win at Linfield was that after 11 lead changes, they were the ones ahead at the buzzer.  Two equally talented teams!

Quote from: wildcat11 on August 08, 2007, 02:04:33 PM
I don't think any team can be ranked above team's that actually win the Stagg no matter who they play.

Got to agree with hscoach on this one, WC11.    Can't ignore Stagg Bowl opponents when trying to compare apples and oranges.  A championship just means a team is the best that season.  Doesn't mean that they can't get their a$$ kicked by a #2 from another year.
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!"  Dennis Miller

"Three things you don't want to be in football, slow, small and friendly!"  John Madden

"You can learn more character on the two-yard line than anywhere else in
life." Paul Dietzel / LSU

wildcat11

Quote from: footballfan413 on August 08, 2007, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on August 08, 2007, 02:04:33 PM
I don't think any team can be ranked above team's that actually win the Stagg no matter who they play.

Got to agree with hscoach on this one, WC11.    Can't ignore Stagg Bowl opponents when trying to compare apples and oranges.  A championship just means a team is the best that season.  Doesn't mean that they can't get their a$ kicked by a #2 from another year.

I think I rushed my statement there...however...there's no number 2 team in the west region the past 10 years that was going to beat that 2004 Linfield team.


footballfan413

#37
Quote from: wildcat11 on August 09, 2007, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: footballfan413 on August 08, 2007, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on August 08, 2007, 02:04:33 PM
I don't think any team can be ranked above team's that actually win the Stagg no matter who they play.

Got to agree with hscoach on this one, WC11.    Can't ignore Stagg Bowl opponents when trying to compare apples and oranges.  A championship just means a team is the best that season.  Doesn't mean that they can't get their a$ kicked by a #2 from another year.

I think I rushed my statement there...however...there's no number 2 team in the west region the past 10 years that was going to beat that 2004 Linfield team.



I will leave this up to those who have far more knowledge and expertise regarding the elite teams before 05 than I do.  But if the 04 team was the, "Brett Elliott Show,"  I witnessed in 05, with a running game...................I sure wouldn't doubt your claim!  :D  ;) ;D
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!"  Dennis Miller

"Three things you don't want to be in football, slow, small and friendly!"  John Madden

"You can learn more character on the two-yard line than anywhere else in
life." Paul Dietzel / LSU

BoBo

If this year was the best Mt. Union team in 10 years, then I suggest the win today moves the 07 UWW Warhawks into the #1 position.
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

sfury

Well, if you go back to the d3 archives, prior to the Stagg Bowl they were also debating if the 2003 Mount team was the best one ever. Checking Mount's stats, that year they outscored opponents by an average of 50-6 entering the Stagg, this year it was 54-5, so pretty much a wash as far as dominance. And they lost by 18 to an unbeaten SJU team and were held to six points. And that was a team that had won a record 55 straight. Still think you gotta put the Johnnies ahead of this year's one-loss WW team. Of course that's a totally biased observation.

D O.C.

QuoteIf this year was the best Mt. Union team in 10 years, then I suggest the win today moves the 07 UWW Warhawks into the #1 position.

+1   sound logic

Oh! Wait! who would that move down a notch?

wildcat11

I think it's just great that we have four different west region teams (Linfield, PLU, SJU, UWW) that we can debate over.

However, the thing that 03 SJU and 04 Linfield have over 07 UWW is zero losses during their championship seasons.

Go West Region!

coco

It certainly Leaves No Doubt as to which is the strongest region overall.
Two words:  THE STREAK

Ralph Turner

#43
Quote from: wildcat11 on December 16, 2007, 03:30:35 PM
I think it's just great that we have four different west region teams (Linfield, PLU, SJU, UWW) that we can debate over.

However, the thing that 03 SJU and 04 Linfield have over 07 UWW is zero losses during their championship seasons.

Go West Region!

Quote from: coco on December 16, 2007, 03:39:52 PM
It certainly Leaves No Doubt as to which is the strongest region overall.

I agree.  MUC has five championships.  Capital has another appearance in the Semis.  So much for the North.

The East has one appearance in the Finals. (Can we say monkey-stomp?)

The South has seen three teams in three appearances in the Finals.

I believe that the West has it!  :)

Ralph Turner

This board will need to be revisited, pending this year's playoffs.

The Top 10 does not include 2007 UWW, and Willamette and UWW look strong again in 2008!