MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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(509)Rat

Whitworth and Whitman win again tonight. Linfield not ready for the big show but should be able to hang on to a tournament spot through the back half of the conference schedule. Lewis and Clark is the best team that has zero shot at the conference tourney, I think they'll be the one to ruin it for one of the teams sitting 3-5 (Pacific/UPS/Linfield).

blackhawks4

How is Occidental 14-2 (with losses to Whitman in a nail biter and a non D3 team) and receiving 2 votes for Top 25 and WW is #7 in the country?  Apparently none of the voters watch hoops on the west coast. 

Also looks like Claremont has figured it out again.  But those early nonconference losses (two to Wisconsin schools and to Puget Sound and Fox) have put the nail in coffin for an at-large bid

Smitty Oom

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
How is Occidental 14-2 and receiving 2 votes for Top 25 and WW is #7 in the country?  Apparently none of the voters watch hoops on the west coast.

Also looks like Claremont has figured it out again.  But those early nonconference losses (two to Wisconsin schools and to Puget Sound and Fox) have put the nail in coffin for an at-large bid

A couple things are keeping Oxy off a lot of ballots in my opinion and keeping WW so high on other ballots:

1. The SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, especially compared to its west coast counterpart NWC, this year with CMS stumbling mightily out of the gate like you noted.
2. Their non-conference schedule leaves ALOT to be desired with some non-D3 squads and no signature wins. Their best result is probably a 4 point loss home against Whitman.
3. Whitworth has been good in previous years and started high in the preseason. For better or for worse, some pollsters have been slow to make changes in their top 25. Especially when they have some solid wins at UPS and home against North Central (Ill.) and the only two losses are to Whitman and a very solid CCIW team, Wheaton.
4. Finally, with the injury to Lester, I'm not sure how much they take that loss into account. Because at the start of the season with him available they were definitely tougher team to beat.

With that said, I moved down WW in my personal ballot this past week quite a bit, so I get where you are coming from.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
How is Occidental 14-2 (with losses to Whitman in a nail biter and a non D3 team) and receiving 2 votes for Top 25 and WW is #7 in the country?  Apparently none of the voters watch hoops on the west coast. 

Also looks like Claremont has figured it out again.  But those early nonconference losses (two to Wisconsin schools and to Puget Sound and Fox) have put the nail in coffin for an at-large bid

Oxy has been on my radar from day 1.  They looked great against Whitman and I'd love to be voting for them.  Unfortunately, until they provide a little more consistency, it's going to be tough.  They're picking it up in conference and well on their way to getting my vote, but they had too many close games against teams a Top 25 squad should squash.  There are probably, especially this year, 100 teams (or more) who could be anyone on a given night - the problem is figuring out which teams are maintaining the level of play necessary to do it consistently and against top level opponents.

Oxy's got all the makings of one of those teams, but they need to prove it a little more - at least for me.
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blackhawks4

Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
The SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, especially compared to its west coast counterpart NWC, this year with CMS stumbling mightily out of the gate like you noted.

Historically speaking the NWC has been better, but also remember that the SCIAC champ ended Whitworth's season last year (in Eastern Washington)

Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
Whitworth has been good in previous years and started high in the preseason. For better or for worse, some pollsters have been slow to make changes in their top 25. Especially when they have some solid wins at UPS and home against North Central (Ill.) and the only two losses are to Whitman and a very solid CCIW team, Wheaton.

In a decade, WW has never advanced into the sweet 16, yet they continually get ranked as one of the 16 best?  Doesnt make sense.

And just to make sure I'm reading this right, we're justifying the #7 WW ranking with wins over unranked UPS and North Central Illinois, and a loss to unranked Wheaton?



blackhawks4

Fair points regarding Oxy.  Oxy vs Claremont will be interesting.  Claremont stumbled out of gate but also looks like their starting pg and preseason All-American (Scarlett) missed the first 4 games. 

Smitty Oom

#6786
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:33:34 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
The SCIAC isn't the strongest conference, especially compared to its west coast counterpart NWC, this year with CMS stumbling mightily out of the gate like you noted.

Historically speaking the NWC has been better, but also remember that the SCIAC champ ended Whitworth's season last year (in Eastern Washington)

One good team does not a strong conference make.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:33:34 AM
In a decade, WW has never advanced into the sweet 16, yet they continually get ranked as one of the 16 best?  Doesnt make sense.

And just to make sure I'm reading this right, we're justifying the #7 WW ranking with wins over unranked UPS and North Central Illinois, and a loss to unranked Wheaton?

That is actually wrong. In 2013-14 they made it to the Sweet 16 and lost to Texas-Dallas. In 2012-2013 they made it to the Sweet 16 and lost to Mary-Hardin Baylor. In 2011-2012 they made it to the Sweet 16 and lost to VA Wesleyan. That is three straight years of making the Sweet 16, now they couldn't get over the hump and make it to the Elite 8 or Final 4. However, they have made the NCAA tourney for 8 straight years, dating back to 2009-10. Pretty impressive streak which I'm sure is one of the longest in the nation.

http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/archive

With that said, I don't think Whitworth should be ranked #7. I was purely pointing out the possible reasons they are up there in the top 10. I do however, think that Whitworth should be ahead of Oxy, and although those teams are 'unranked' that I cited in regards to WW schedule, they are results versus darn good unranked teams that makes the resume for the Pirates better than the resume for the Tigers currently, in my opinion.

Smitty Oom

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:43:45 AM
Fair points regarding Oxy.  Oxy vs Claremont will be interesting.  Claremont stumbled out of gate but also looks like their starting pg and preseason All-American (Scarlett) missed the first 4 games.

Yeah this is very true. It seems like CMS has played better since having him return, but I think the damage has already been done in regards to their Pool C chances.

blackhawks4

You are correct, Smitty, and I misspoke.  WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--which led to my argument that they shouldn't be ranked in the top 16 teams, with a decade long history of showing that they are not there.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Claremont win the SCIAC.  They were REALLY good last year and return similar team. If Claremont wins and gets the auto bid, then you have Oxy looking for a pool c bid.  Now in my opinion, Oxy is better than WW.  BUT, if WW finishes conference 14-3 (all 3 losses to WMN), they will also be looking for pool C bid also.  And they will get it all day over Oxy.





(509)Rat

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--

Swing and a miss

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 11:43:45 AM
Fair points regarding Oxy.  Oxy vs Claremont will be interesting.  Claremont stumbled out of gate but also looks like their starting pg and preseason All-American (Scarlett) missed the first 4 games.

I've got Oxy at #34 right now, after figuring this week's ballot.
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blackhawks4

Right in time for Occidental to play at Cal Lu, and then square off with Claremont twice. Would be surprised if they  come out of that unscathed.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
You are correct, Smitty, and I misspoke.  WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--which led to my argument that they shouldn't be ranked in the top 16 teams, with a decade long history of showing that they are not there.

Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.
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Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2018, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2018, 02:09:03 PM
You are correct, Smitty, and I misspoke.  WW has made the sweet 16, but have never advanced past--which led to my argument that they shouldn't be ranked in the top 16 teams, with a decade long history of showing that they are not there.

Don't confuse final 16 or final 8 with top 8. It's not easy to advance off the West Coast. NWC schools basically never get to host the second weekend because of NCAA travel restrictions and usually end up playing other very tough West or Central Region teams.

Whitman kind of helped make that argument even more plausible last year - though, I've agreed with that thinking for a long time.
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