2017 Season - National Perspective

Started by D3soccerwatcher, August 11, 2017, 10:25:42 PM

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Buck O.

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 22, 2017, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 22, 2017, 10:39:18 AM
YUP!! Especially the engineering and pre-med kids at Hopkins. I was poli-sci and once you figured out how to write 25 page mid-term papers, it was fine. But those guys? Brutal. And while I suspect it was more myth than reality, there was a term called "throating" at Hopkins that was short for "cut throat." I guess for a time those classes were graded on a very strict curve system, so there were incentives to mess with people's lab results and to not share lecture notes and other stuff. Seemed to have been mostly rectified by the time I got there... But the culture was still VERY intense and stressful.

Yeah, I've heard Hopkins is brutal for pre-meds so I don't think that's all myth.  My impression is that fellow pre-med mecca Wash U is a bit friendlier but the weed out is still pretty unforgiving. 

As a Wash U alum, that's my impression as well.  (Although things may have changed in the 30 years since I graduated!)

NEsoccerfan

Quote from: 4samuy on November 21, 2017, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: Bobcat1 on November 21, 2017, 11:44:35 AM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 21, 2017, 11:32:26 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 21, 2017, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: Bobcat1 on November 21, 2017, 11:11:58 AM
Conor Coleman of Tufts should be Defensive POY

Coleman definitely deserves AA status, and given Tufts' overall defensive record I'm sure Coleman will garner some votes for DPOY.  That said, he is not the overall dynamic phenomenon that Vegter is.  Vegter is in a different category.

Completely agree with Paul. Coleman had a breakout year and as much as I would love for a NESCAC player to win the award, Vegter might be the best D3 defender I've seen. Him and Lanahan are the best two in my memory. As Paul said, Coleman will get some form of AA recognition, as he should, but I just don't see him winning DPOY.

Admittedly, I don't know Vegter. Looking at results, he led a defense which allowed 10 goals in 23 games. Coleman anchored a defense that allowed 2 goals in 21 games while playing a much tougher schedule than Vegter. It all depends on your perspective. In looking at Vegter's offensive stats it certainly would appear he is a dynamic player out of the back (4g, 10a). That being said, I think Coleman will get some significant consideration.

I was at the Chicago-Calvin game this past weekend and had mentioned that Chicago, after scoring early, was consistently making Calvin build from the back. This was the first time I had seen Vegter in person and have to say he was an absolute stud.  I guess you can question how many goals one team gives up vs another, but I can see how this kid had 10 A and 4G.  As Calvin would spread the pitch Vegter would be putting left footed lasers 50 yds down field and no more than 10 ft off the ground right onto the boots of his wings.  It really was an amazing display.

Vegter is an absolute freak. He is the type of player that would be an AA at ANY position in D3 (besides goalie). In addition to Lanahan and Vegter, I would add tom carwile from Trinity a few years back. He anchored a defense that was top 3 in shutouts, goals allowed, and shots allowed AND he had like 10 goals and 5 assists or something ridiculous.

blooter442

Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 22, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Vegter is an absolute freak. He is the type of player that would be an AA at ANY position in D3 (besides goalie). In addition to Lanahan and Vegter, I would add tom carwile from Trinity a few years back. He anchored a defense that was top 3 in shutouts, goals allowed, and shots allowed AND he had like 10 goals and 5 assists or something ridiculous.

Without opening a can of worms (maybe it's already been opened), I'd have Sam Williams on that list, too. Very good on the ball and all-round just a very good defender. All told, those four are the best that I've seen in D3.

firstplaceloser

#603
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

WOW 35-1 to a team with the best record and beat the team you have favorited. Interesting to see how it plays out

PaulNewman

Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 22, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Vegter is an absolute freak. He is the type of player that would be an AA at ANY position in D3 (besides goalie). In addition to Lanahan and Vegter, I would add tom carwile from Trinity a few years back. He anchored a defense that was top 3 in shutouts, goals allowed, and shots allowed AND he had like 10 goals and 5 assists or something ridiculous.

Without opening a can of worms (maybe it's already been opened), I'd have Sam Williams on that list, too. Very good on the ball and all-round just a very good defender. All told, those four are the best that I've seen in D3.

Haha.....now we've got a full scale argument.  The Messiah faithful will be coming out in droves for the older Robbins brother who played CB a few years ago.  I got to get in a vote for Sam Justice.  Wasn't there a Redlands CB who played in MLS in the last 2-3 years?

All that said, we have several posters who have no idea who the others are and who have zero to do with Calvin who recognize Vegter's talent.  I would guess he could have been a scholarship player at Michigan.  A lot of brothers at the forefront in D3 soccer.....Ocel, Robbins, Thompson, Vegter, Aoyama, Myers, Halliday, etc, etc.

NESCAC43

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 22, 2017, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 22, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Vegter is an absolute freak. He is the type of player that would be an AA at ANY position in D3 (besides goalie). In addition to Lanahan and Vegter, I would add tom carwile from Trinity a few years back. He anchored a defense that was top 3 in shutouts, goals allowed, and shots allowed AND he had like 10 goals and 5 assists or something ridiculous.

Without opening a can of worms (maybe it's already been opened), I'd have Sam Williams on that list, too. Very good on the ball and all-round just a very good defender. All told, those four are the best that I've seen in D3.

Haha.....now we've got a full scale argument.  The Messiah faithful will be coming out in droves for the older Robbins brother who played CB a few years ago.  I got to get in a vote for Sam Justice.  Wasn't there a Redlands CB who played in MLS in the last 2-3 years?

All that said, we have several posters who have no idea who the others are and who have zero to do with Calvin who recognize Vegter's talent.  I would guess he could have been a scholarship player at Michigan.  A lot of brothers at the forefront in D3 soccer.....Ocel, Robbins, Thompson, Vegter, Aoyama, Myers, Halliday, etc, etc.

Richie Marquez from the Union played at Redlands.

letsGOswans!

Vegter's athleticism is indeed impressive. Best defender I have seen in D3 was the older Robbins brother from Messiah or Brewster from Bowdoin.

martin

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

Those odds collectively add up to 39.2%.  Is there a fifth team in the final four with a 60.8% chance of winning?
Crescat scientia; vita excolatur.
Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.

Buck O.

Quote from: martin on November 22, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

Those odds collectively add up to 39.2%.  Is there a fifth team in the final four with a 60.8% chance of winning?

I'm assuming those were odds as of the beginning of the tournament.  If not, then you're right, and I definitely want a lot of action at those odds.

Mr.Right

Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 22, 2017, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

WOW 35-1 to a team with the best record and beat the team you have favorited. Interesting to see how it plays out


Hey if you like the odds for North Park by all means put some bananas down as I can give you a banana account #...In all seriousness the reason IMO they are heavy dogs is because I am not overly impressed with their schedule. I do not see many quality wins on that schedule. I also will say this past weekend was the FIRST time North Park played a back to back any yes they did defeat both teams and shut them out I truly believe their road to the Final 4 was much easier than that of the other 3 and it might show next weekend. Yes they did beat Chicago 1-0 a month ago but it was a very even game and I thought Chicago outplayed them in the 2nd Half. Like you said we will see how it plays out.

Mr.Right

Quote from: martin on November 22, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

Those odds collectively add up to 39.2%.  Is there a fifth team in the final four with a 60.8% chance of winning?


Yea Bowdoin I think....I did not collectively add them up to 100% just did them on the flip..But yea if you want in PM me and we can figure something out...

Mr.Right

Quote from: Buck O. on November 22, 2017, 10:02:09 PM
Quote from: martin on November 22, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

Those odds collectively add up to 39.2%.  Is there a fifth team in the final four with a 60.8% chance of winning?

I'm assuming those were odds as of the beginning of the tournament.  If not, then you're right, and I definitely want a lot of action at those odds.


OK but a minimum of 1 team only..Cannot put bananas on all 4..Sorry

blue_jays

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 10:27:25 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 22, 2017, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
2017 Championship Odds:

Chicago   6-1
Messiah   8-1
Brandeis  14-1
North Park  35-1

WOW 35-1 to a team with the best record and beat the team you have favorited. Interesting to see how it plays out


Hey if you like the odds for North Park by all means put some bananas down as I can give you a banana account #...In all seriousness the reason IMO they are heavy dogs is because I am not overly impressed with their schedule. I do not see many quality wins on that schedule. I also will say this past weekend was the FIRST time North Park played a back to back any yes they did defeat both teams and shut them out I truly believe their road to the Final 4 was much easier than that of the other 3 and it might show next weekend. Yes they did beat Chicago 1-0 a month ago but it was a very even game and I thought Chicago outplayed them in the 2nd Half. Like you said we will see how it plays out.

I think North Park is favored in this match-up. They are the most athletic side Chicago faced all year (more than Calvin even), which gave them fits defensively. Speed kills, and NPU has a ton of it. Their defense was very organized and even when Chicago woke up after halftime after sleepwalking through the first half, they had a hard time penetrating the back four. The game should have been a 1-1 tie, if not for NPU's save of the year on Lopez's top shelf header.
I'll be very curious to see how Greensboro's surface affects speed of play. Chicago's turf is one of the fastest in the nation, which the two teams last played on.
That said, factors that weigh against North Park: easiest road to Final 4 I've seen in years and cleaned out a sub-par CCIW this season; first time on this stage; Chicago out for revenge and hard to beat same team twice; will have to figure out how to assign multiple defenders to both Lopez and Koh; must deny Lopez in the air.

The Cove

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 22, 2017, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 22, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Vegter is an absolute freak. He is the type of player that would be an AA at ANY position in D3 (besides goalie). In addition to Lanahan and Vegter, I would add tom carwile from Trinity a few years back. He anchored a defense that was top 3 in shutouts, goals allowed, and shots allowed AND he had like 10 goals and 5 assists or something ridiculous.

Without opening a can of worms (maybe it's already been opened), I'd have Sam Williams on that list, too. Very good on the ball and all-round just a very good defender. All told, those four are the best that I've seen in D3.

Haha.....now we've got a full scale argument.  The Messiah faithful will be coming out in droves for the older Robbins brother who played CB a few years ago.  I got to get in a vote for Sam Justice.  Wasn't there a Redlands CB who played in MLS in the last 2-3 years?

All that said, we have several posters who have no idea who the others are and who have zero to do with Calvin who recognize Vegter's talent.  I would guess he could have been a scholarship player at Michigan.  A lot of brothers at the forefront in D3 soccer.....Ocel, Robbins, Thompson, Vegter, Aoyama, Myers, Halliday, etc, etc.

This conversation takes me back to seeing Vegter play against Kenyon when he was a freshman left-back and watching him thrive in an extremely high-pressure situation. If I recall, Calvin's centre-back that year was equally as talented and helped shutout a strong Kenyon attack.

Adding to the family success, Vegter's brother, Travis, scored two great strikes against the Lords in 2013 in a crazy game that finished 4-2.

Re: Sam Justice, is he even the best Kenyon CB with Lowry, Myers, Nolan, and Fischer wearing purple and black so recently?

PaulNewman

Quote from: The Cove on November 23, 2017, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 22, 2017, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 22, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Vegter is an absolute freak. He is the type of player that would be an AA at ANY position in D3 (besides goalie). In addition to Lanahan and Vegter, I would add tom carwile from Trinity a few years back. He anchored a defense that was top 3 in shutouts, goals allowed, and shots allowed AND he had like 10 goals and 5 assists or something ridiculous.

Without opening a can of worms (maybe it's already been opened), I'd have Sam Williams on that list, too. Very good on the ball and all-round just a very good defender. All told, those four are the best that I've seen in D3.

Haha.....now we've got a full scale argument.  The Messiah faithful will be coming out in droves for the older Robbins brother who played CB a few years ago.  I got to get in a vote for Sam Justice.  Wasn't there a Redlands CB who played in MLS in the last 2-3 years?

All that said, we have several posters who have no idea who the others are and who have zero to do with Calvin who recognize Vegter's talent.  I would guess he could have been a scholarship player at Michigan.  A lot of brothers at the forefront in D3 soccer.....Ocel, Robbins, Thompson, Vegter, Aoyama, Myers, Halliday, etc, etc.

This conversation takes me back to seeing Vegter play against Kenyon when he was a freshman left-back and watching him thrive in an extremely high-pressure situation. If I recall, Calvin's centre-back that year was equally as talented and helped shutout a strong Kenyon attack.

Adding to the family success, Vegter's brother, Travis, scored two great strikes against the Lords in 2013 in a crazy game that finished 4-2.

Re: Sam Justice, is he even the best Kenyon CB with Lowry, Myers, Nolan, and Fischer wearing purple and black so recently?

LOL.  I hope you aren't one of Sam's teammates saying that.  In a word, yes....with Lowry a very close second.  Myers is a tremendous all around athlete who was a natural attacking mid moved to CB and then moved up top.  Like with Myers this year for the NCAA tourney, Sam's serious injury put a damper on the finish to his career which was unfortunate for him and the team.  Sam also was a NCAA Postgrad Scholar, a tremendous honor for any student-athlete...and one of the most modest and selfless people you will ever meet.

You failed to mention that in that 4-2 Calvin game Kenyon were the victors after being behind at the half 2-0.  That was just the 2nd game of the season (played in the OWU early season tournament) but was critical to saving Kenyon's NCAA hopes in 2013 after losing in OT the day before to Kean on a major miscue between a CB and the GK...which was Clougher's frosh year and the loss led to Clougher taking over GK duties from there.