MBB: NESCAC

Started by cameltime, April 27, 2005, 02:38:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mr. Ypsi

#14775
Quote from: madzillagd on April 21, 2013, 06:57:09 PM
Pretty sure every coach in the league would accept this 14 yr old based on his highlights alone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=If7Hrcf04Dw

Hate to break it to ya, but that kid AIN'T goin' d3! ;D

(Unless he's a genius + nerd, and wants MIT or Caltech!  But even then, there are d1 schools he could have Nobel-prize winning profs, and go free.)

I realize it is a highlights reel, but he could CURRENTLY start for any NESCAC (or other d3 team).

I've seen a highlights reel for LeBron (probably the most hyped kid since Lew Alcindor); at 14, this kid is better.

middhoops

Whew, at least he won't attend Williams or Amherst. ;)

Old Guy

In case others (besides me) are interested in Ryan Sharry's pro play in Luxembourg: his team is in the best two of three championship series. Here's footage of the first game, a win for Ryan's team. This is a video of the whole game (80+ minutes), fun for those of us from Middlebury who so enjoyed watching him play for the Panthers for four years.

http://www.flbb.lu/livestream.php

To summarize, his team won 94-81. Ryan had 29 points, with his customary efficiency: 10-11 from the floor (5-5 from three; 5-6 from two); 4-7 from the line; 12 rebounds; 5 blocks; 6 assists. Pretty good night's work. Think we could have used him this year? 29 points on 11 shots! That's Ryan.

For the year, he has averaged 19.5 points a game, on 68% shooting (41.5 from three), 12.5 boards a game. I don't know what his plans are for the future. It certainly would appear he could step up to a stronger league.

fpc85

Quote from: AmherstStudent05 on April 14, 2013, 04:40:34 PM
I wanted to post a few thoughts about the "legacy" of the 2013 Amherst team.  I know lots of posters either loathe or are simply uninterested in this particular topic, but since the Board seems to have slowed down considerably in recent days, I figured I could hazard a few thoughts/words of praise for this most recent Amherst team (what would you expect -- I am  an Amherst homer after all) without hijacking the conversation here.

Anyway, in my admittedly biased view, the 2013 Amherst team clearly put together the finest season in the history of the NESCAC.  Most obviously, they were the first team to win a national championship, a NESCAC championship, and the NESCAC regular season title all in the same season.  The 2003 Williams team won a national championship and a NESCAC championship, but were the number 2 seed in the NESCAC Tournament behind Amherst (though, Williams undeniably got its revenge in the postseason that year).  The 2007 Amherst team won a national championship and the NESCAC regular season (though not undefeated, having lost to the Bantams on the last day of the regular season), but lost the NESCAC Championship game in heartbreaking fashion to Williams.

Notably, both the 2004 and the 2010 Williams teams put together undefeated NESCAC seasons (though the 2004 team did get blown out by Amherst in the non-conference game), but each lost tight games in the NCAA Title game to superb teams from UWSP.

Not only did this 2013 Amherst team win these three "titles" in the same season, but, also of note, they put together an absolutely dominant run in the NCAA Tournament (which I think is also a useful metric to consider in evaluating a team's accomplishments during a season).  Apart from the NCC game, Amherst led by at least two possessions for the entire second half of all of its Tourney games.  The Jeffs also ended up beating NCC by 8 after leading most of the way.  Now, on this point, I can anticipate the criticism that Amherst's Tournament competition was not particularly strong.  Such a claim is obviously very difficult to evaluate -- especially across a decade of play -- but, I would concede that, at least in my amateur judgment, Amherst's Tourney road this year was not particularly strong relative either to other Tourney teams in 2013 or when compared to NESCAC teams of the past (e.g. 2010 Williams, 2007 Amherst, 2004 Williams, 2003 Williams)-- although I guess that is easy for me to say since I didn't have to beat any of these teams!

I don't mean any disrespect to any of the programs I am about to talk about -- in most cases I saw each of them play only once on a webcast -- but I do think that Plattsburgh was an excellent draw for Amherst in the second round.  As for RMC, Cabrini, and UMHB, I have reasons for thinking that each of these teams might be much better than they showed against Amherst, but to my eye they were not as strong as teams Amherst has played at similar points in previous tournaments.  NCC was definitely a legit team though -- easily the best defensive team I have seen Amherst play since that 2011 Panther squad anchored by Locke.  Anyway, Amherst obviously could only play the teams they were matched up against, and I think they clearly established themselves as the best team in Division III basketball this year -- even nescac1 was declaring us to be the prohibitive favorites heading into the Final Four down in Salem!

Finally, this Amherst team ended the season on a 24-game win streak (no losses this calendar year) and was undefeated when its preferred starting five (Kaasila, Williamson, Workman, Killian, Toomey) all dressed. 

Now, just because I think this was the most impressive season, it does not necessarily mean that I think that 2013 Amherst was the best team in the modern NESCAC era (since 2001).  This is a topic I confess a weakness for even though it is obviously impossible to quantify in any rigorous way.  Ultimately, I do think that our two National Championship teams (2007 and 2013) were our best teams, but we had plenty of great teams that never cut down the nets in Salem/Atlanta.  Indeed, we also had some phenomenal teams (03, 04, 11) that ended up having losing records to Williams and/or Midd that I still think could have given our 07 and 2013 teams a run for their money.  Where is the simulator when you need it?

'13 is very good but I am partial to the '07 squad. They were a bit better on defense. Though I guess we are splitting hairs.

Vandy74

Quote from: Old Guy on April 22, 2013, 05:49:02 PM
In case others (besides me) are interested in Ryan Sharry's pro play in Luxembourg: his team is in the best two of three championship series. Here's footage of the first game, a win for Ryan's team. This is a video of the whole game (80+ minutes), fun for those of us from Middlebury who so enjoyed watching him play for the Panthers for four years.

http://www.flbb.lu/livestream.php

To summarize, his team won 94-81. Ryan had 29 points, with his customary efficiency: 10-11 from the floor (5-5 from three; 5-6 from two); 4-7 from the line; 12 rebounds; 5 blocks; 6 assists. Pretty good night's work. Think we could have used him this year? 29 points on 11 shots! That's Ryan.

For the year, he has averaged 19.5 points a game, on 68% shooting (41.5 from three), 12.5 boards a game. I don't know what his plans are for the future. It certainly would appear he could step up to a stronger league.

Thanks for the link.  That was fun to watch.  Interesting experience watching a game with no commentary or scoreboard. 

umhb2001

Quote from: lefrakenstein on April 08, 2013, 11:57:15 AM
So excited after yesterday! It was great to see the team put a cap on a truly unbelievable season. It's really amazing to see how far the players, and Williamson in particular, have improved since the beginning of the season. Have to give a lot of props to UMHB too - even though the game wasn't particularly close it was clear that their team was extremely talented - Amherst could simply not prevent Orr, Allen or Todd from getting to the rack. But the balanced attack from Amherst just overwhelmed them. Pretty much everyone on the team had a strong game, but Williamson, Green and Workman were "on" in particular, and they were the guys who provided the answer for every Cru run. I was particularly impressed with Green. He really showed an ability to get into the lane and finish when defenders play him too tightly. He had a couple of and-ones that were huge momentum changers. Pretty cool to see a freshman play that well in such a big game.

Got back late last night from Atlanta, and I have to say it was an awesome event. I was one of the people who was inclined to think that delaying the dIII tournament to have all the games at once was a really poor decision, but now that I've actually experienced the event, I have to say that I was wrong and that this was a great idea. It's probably not something that can be repeated, but it created a really fun atmosphere. It was almost surreal seeing the team playing in an NBA arena. The only thing that would have made it better is if Amherst had managed to send students down for the game. UMHB had a great student section and Amherst didn't have any students there at all. But other than that, I think it was basically a perfect event. In addition to a few '08 friends who came down for the game, I got to sit with the Workman clan and a professor I had my freshman year who miraculously still remembered me. It was a lot of fun to see how many people follow the team closely from afar; everyone really knew a lot about the players and the team in general.

amh63, the reception after the game was also great. I got to meet a lot of the players as well as Coffey, the AD, and many alumni. Got some inside scoops: the team is definitely still looking to add more recruits for next year. One of the assistants thought it might end up being a very large class. So I'm excited to see who else they add. I got to meet Berman and Nabatoff, who were in attendance with their families. Both seemed like nice kids.

Anyway, sorry for boring everyone else. The board has really made following the team even more fun this year, so thanks to everyone who posts regularly. I'll see you next season.

I know I'm late posting, but congrats to the Lord Jeffs for their great game in Atlanta. From the get go I knew that The Cru needed to come out hot, and we just didn't get it done. I'm not sure that nerves impacted us, but I think that we may have been effected by the bright lights no matter how much they dimmed in the second. My hat goes off to a great shooting team and a well coached team. I didn't see any desperation shots or panic, everything looked to be as scripted.

As for UMHB, it was great to just be there. Not being ranked, it is a huge accomplishment. With three starters leaving, I hope that our young team can be lead by the two remaining, and that we can get some good recruits. I hope a runner up finish helps us there.

I totally agree with the change of venue option. This was great for the kids and the fans. Plus, I can't tell you how many questions I fielded about our school. Perhaps now, when our football team makes it to the semis or championship game, they'll check us out on there too.

Hopefully, we'll see y'all again sometime. Have a great offseason!
Watch out for the wreckingCRU defense!!

nescac1

#14781
I don't think I've ever commented on karma before, but I do find it amusing that for something like 20 straight days now, someone has logged on for the express purpose of dinging me a karma point.  To whoever my "fan," is, I'm sure the love is reciprocal! 

Regarding legacies, the 2013 Amherst team has no doubt earned its place in the NESCAC pantheon.  I'm not sure they top the 2003 Williams title team, though, which went 31-1, had two all-American caliber players, arguably the best second unit (Bhat / Newton / Kain / Folan / Graham) I've seen in NESCAC, and outscored opponents by over 21 ppg (around 23 ppg in NESCAC play), had a ridiculous rebounding differential, plus handily beat a loaded Amherst squad in the Elite 8 before playing very tough competition in the Final Four.  The fact that they came back the next year (despite major lossses to graduation) to beat Holy Cross on the road, make it all the way back to the title game, and come within one shot of a repeat validated that team's stellar run.  But honestly, I don't think a lot separates the 2003-04 Williams, 2007-08 Amherst, 2010 Williams, and 2013 Amherst teams.  And I also think that the 1996 Williams team could have beaten any of them, they just had the bad fortune to run into basically a D-1 Rowan team prior to the Final Four in a game in which the Eph's all-American center got a migraine.  2013 Amherst is the most athletic and effective in transition, 2010 Williams the best shooting, 2003-04 Williams the best defensively and on the interior, 07-08 Amherst the most balanced and efficient offensively of that group.  Each would have advantages vs. any of the others. 

It will be interesting to see how 2014 Amherst stacks up vs. the prior NESCAC titlists, both of whom made it all the way back to the championship game.  Amherst's projected starting five for next year (Toomey, Kalema, Green, Killian, Pollack) is certainly good enough for a deep tourney run.  That is a very small team, but very quick and very athletic with plenty of scoring punch.  Green proved that he will be ready to be the number two scoring option behind Toomey.  I could see them combining for close to 40 ppg next year. The question is can they compete on the interior, and will anyone provide the sort of bench impact that Green/Pollack/Kalema did this year, and particularly during the tourney run.  And of course, Amherst will have to fend off pretty loaded Williams, Midd and Tufts teams in its own conference ...

old_hooper

Nescac1 good take on  history and LJs next year.  However, providing he is healthy, Logan Buckner brings the physical toughness that they will need.  Big brawley guy that was projected to contribute this year but was not healthy.  I am not so sure that he will not be a starter next year in the 4 position.  Also know that the coaching staff is very high on Sanderson.  If he grows more (6'9-10) and puts on some muscle he will see major minutes next year.  Will also need another guard to step up and prove that they deserve more minutes to make up the 8 man rotation when NESCAC season starts.  Does not look like Ray Barry will be that player.  Based on players they already have, it will be interesting to see the ones that want it the most and step up next year.

lefrakenstein

Quote from: nescac1 on April 25, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
I don't think I've ever commented on karma before, but I do find it amusing that for something like 20 straight days now, someone has logged on for the express purpose of dinging me a karma point.  To whoever my "fan," is, I'm sure the love is reciprocal! 

Regarding legacies, the 2013 Amherst team has no doubt earned its place in the NESCAC pantheon.  I'm not sure they top the 2003 Williams title team, though, which went 31-1, had two all-American caliber players, arguably the best second unit (Bhat / Newton / Kain / Folan / Graham) I've seen in NESCAC, and outscored opponents by over 21 ppg (around 23 ppg in NESCAC play), had a ridiculous rebounding differential, plus handily beat a loaded Amherst squad in the Elite 8 before playing very tough competition in the Final Four.  The fact that they came back the next year (despite major lossses to graduation) to beat Holy Cross on the road, make it all the way back to the title game, and come within one shot of a repeat validated that team's stellar run.  But honestly, I don't think a lot separates the 2003-04 Williams, 2007-08 Amherst, 2010 Williams, and 2013 Amherst teams.  And I also think that the 1996 Williams team could have beaten any of them, they just had the bad fortune to run into basically a D-1 Rowan team prior to the Final Four in a game in which the Eph's all-American center got a migraine.  2013 Amherst is the most athletic and effective in transition, 2010 Williams the best shooting, 2003-04 Williams the best defensively and on the interior, 07-08 Amherst the most balanced and efficient offensively of that group.  Each would have advantages vs. any of the others. 

It will be interesting to see how 2014 Amherst stacks up vs. the prior NESCAC titlists, both of whom made it all the way back to the championship game.  Amherst's projected starting five for next year (Toomey, Kalema, Green, Killian, Pollack) is certainly good enough for a deep tourney run.  That is a very small team, but very quick and very athletic with plenty of scoring punch.  Green proved that he will be ready to be the number two scoring option behind Toomey.  I could see them combining for close to 40 ppg next year. The question is can they compete on the interior, and will anyone provide the sort of bench impact that Green/Pollack/Kalema did this year, and particularly during the tourney run.  And of course, Amherst will have to fend off pretty loaded Williams, Midd and Tufts teams in its own conference ...

I think it would be fun if someone put together a tournament of all the NESCAC final four teams from the 2000s. Every round someone could write a summary of the match-up and then we could have a poll for a day or two to determine the winner. Seeding would be by tournament result so the bracket would look like this:

Top half of the bracket:
1. Amherst '13 (won by 17) vs
PLAY-IN 8. Williams '11 (lost in semis by 2) vs. 9. Amherst '06 (lost in semis by 4)

4.  Williams '10 (lost in finals by 2) vs.
5. Williams '04 (lost in finals by 2)

Bottom half of the bracket:
2. Amherst '07 (won by 13) vs
PLAY-IN 7. Midd '11 (lost in semis by 2) vs 10. Amherst '04 (lost in semis by 4)

3. Williams '03 (won by 2) vs
6. Amherst '08 (lost in finals by 22)

There were some ties in the seeding method which I broke as follows: I seeded Midd '11 over Williams '11 b/c Midd won the conference tournament. I seeded Amherst '04 behind Amherst '06 b/c '04 lost to a NESCAC team in the semis, and I didn't really bother to break the Williams '10 and Williams '04 tie b/c they play each other in the first round anyway.

I don't have time to organize this due to law school finals, but if someone else wanted to get us started with a match-up preview of one of the play-in games, and a poll,  I think it would be fun. I could chip in a match-up preview or two. Anyone interested or has the board already lost too much momentum?

Also, nescac1, I assure you I have not been logging on to ding anyone's karma.

madzillagd

Quote from: nescac1 on April 25, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
I don't think I've ever commented on karma before, but I do find it amusing that for something like 20 straight days now, someone has logged on for the express purpose of dinging me a karma point.  To whoever my "fan," is, I'm sure the love is reciprocal! 

So you are saying your last comment about NESCAC vs Midwest basketball was 20 days ago.  Your comment must have been much better than mine because my negative karma streak only lasted for about 5 days. 

amh63

Nescac 1.......Hope your special fan is not the same one that has selected Vandy 74 and me for awhile.  In any case, rest assured it is not me.  Like Amherst posters, I prefer the "out in the light" direct approach if I find a post I dislike. :)
LeFrak.....good luck on your finals.  Based on your posts, it should be a breeze.  With regards to your request, I am tied up for awhile with my up coming Class reunion....plus I lack the basic knowledge/recall data.
Just want to point out to board members that next season web games have been raised up a notch.  The Cardinals in Middletown have upgraded their webcasts both in scope and quality....with HD broadcasts and replay.  I plan to watch a baseball game today on their "network".  Seems that other "CAC" schools need to follow suit.  New AD has raised the standard.

Vandy74

Quote from: nescac1 on April 25, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
I don't think I've ever commented on karma before, but I do find it amusing that for something like 20 straight days now, someone has logged on for the express purpose of dinging me a karma point.  To whoever my "fan," is, I'm sure the love is reciprocal! 

Quote from: amh63 on April 26, 2013, 12:11:36 PM
Nescac 1.......Hope your special fan is not the same one that has selected Vandy 74 and me for awhile.  In any case, rest assured it is not me.  Like Amherst posters, I prefer the "out in the light" direct approach if I find a post I dislike. :)


nescac1,

I'm sorry to hear you are a victim of karma loss as well.  I know who is dinging me and amh63.  Regional loyalties may be involved but are not the primary factor.  It isn't about basketball either, and I have no idea why he would include you in his game assuming it is the same individual, except it was about 20 days ago I let him know that I knew who he was.  He has done a few things that seem like attempts to confuse the issue since then.  Middhoops, like madzillagd, was also briefly being dinged for no apparent reason.  I have no intention of outing my little buddy on the board.  That would be as childish as his behavior.  He isn't worth losing sleep over.  I've informed amh63 and two friends who post here that I see from time to time.  I will let you know via private email if you wish.  The funny thing is that for about a week now someone has been taking a K from him on a daily basis too.  ;D 

Vandy74

Quote from: Vandy74 on April 26, 2013, 10:31:26 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on April 25, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
I don't think I've ever commented on karma before, but I do find it amusing that for something like 20 straight days now, someone has logged on for the express purpose of dinging me a karma point.  To whoever my "fan," is, I'm sure the love is reciprocal! 

Quote from: amh63 on April 26, 2013, 12:11:36 PM
Nescac 1.......Hope your special fan is not the same one that has selected Vandy 74 and me for awhile.  In any case, rest assured it is not me.  Like Amherst posters, I prefer the "out in the light" direct approach if I find a post I dislike. :)




nescac1,

I'm sorry to hear you are a victim of karma loss as well.  I know who is dinging me and amh63.  Regional loyalties may be involved but are not the primary factor.  It isn't about basketball either, and I have no idea why he would include you in his game assuming it is the same individual, except it was about 20 days ago I let him know that I knew who he was.  He has done a few things that seem like attempts to confuse the issue since then.  Middhoops, like madzillagd, was also briefly being dinged for no apparent reason.  I have no intention of outing my little buddy on the board.  That would be as childish as his behavior.  He isn't worth losing sleep over.  I've informed amh63 and two friends who post here that I see from time to time.  I will let you know via private email if you wish.  The funny thing is that for about a week now someone has been taking a K from him on a daily basis too.  ;D

Yeeeehaaaawwww!  -20 at last.  He did it 28 minutes ago.  So predictable.  Yawn.......

grabtherim

Quote from: Vandy74 on April 27, 2013, 01:07:20 AM
Quote from: Vandy74 on April 26, 2013, 10:31:26 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on April 25, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
I don't think I've ever commented on karma before, but I do find it amusing that for something like 20 straight days now, someone has logged on for the express purpose of dinging me a karma point.  To whoever my "fan," is, I'm sure the love is reciprocal! 

Quote from: amh63 on April 26, 2013, 12:11:36 PM
Nescac 1.......Hope your special fan is not the same one that has selected Vandy 74 and me for awhile.  In any case, rest assured it is not me.  Like Amherst posters, I prefer the "out in the light" direct approach if I find a post I dislike. :)




nescac1,

I'm sorry to hear you are a victim of karma loss as well.  I know who is dinging me and amh63.  Regional loyalties may be involved but are not the primary factor.  It isn't about basketball either, and I have no idea why he would include you in his game assuming it is the same individual, except it was about 20 days ago I let him know that I knew who he was.  He has done a few things that seem like attempts to confuse the issue since then.  Middhoops, like madzillagd, was also briefly being dinged for no apparent reason.  I have no intention of outing my little buddy on the board.  That would be as childish as his behavior.  He isn't worth losing sleep over.  I've informed amh63 and two friends who post here that I see from time to time.  I will let you know via private email if you wish.  The funny thing is that for about a week now someone has been taking a K from him on a daily basis too.  ;D

Yeeeehaaaawwww!  -20 at last.  He did it 28 minutes ago.  So predictable.  Yawn.......

Girls, your skirts are showing.  Karma points?  What the heck is that?  I keep on seeing a negative number by my name and figure it is some internet version of a 8 year old saying "I dont like you and I'm not going to play with you".  Does it really bother you that much? Who cares? That being said, if someone is playing high tech "I'm not going to be your friend" and you know who it is, OUT the jerk to us all and move on to discussing where the world will be without Willy Workman playing basketball in it.

amh63

Grabtherim....you  had to remind me about Willy. :)

Old  Hopper...good points!   Several other related info points.  Logan came to Amherst heavier but decided to drop some weight..according to his mother.  In  Salem,  I learned that Sanderson had gained 10 lbs...also from  a family member.   Considering  Curtis, Levine and others, returning bigger, Amherst has the potential to floor a big  talented team.