World Cup and European leagues

Started by Jim Matson, June 11, 2006, 12:00:45 AM

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Joe Wally

Yesterday was a tremendous day for German football, and Arjen Robben too.

sac

Crystal Palace returns to the EPL with a 1-0 extra time win over Watford.


Cardiff, Hull, Crystal Palace........think all 3 will have trouble staying up next year.

sac

Louis Suarez's tone has changed considerably this week.  Stay tuned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22712272

woacfan

Anyone have any thoughts on the sorry performance of USMNT in the friendly against Belgium in Cleveland the other night? 

Also, thoughts on where Dempsey will play in '14?  Sounds like Tottenham is looking to dump him.
"We talk about it for 20 minutes and then we decide I was right" - Brian Clough

WLCALUM83

#2464
Sounds like the US made up for that Belgium loss somewhat with their win over Germany--but they still need to work on their defense. They've got a big World Cup qualifier coming up in Jamaica on Friday.

Speaking of the "Reggae Boys", they play Mexico later today.

jknezek

Quote from: woacfan on May 30, 2013, 09:31:55 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on the sorry performance of USMNT in the friendly against Belgium in Cleveland the other night? 

Also, thoughts on where Dempsey will play in '14?  Sounds like Tottenham is looking to dump him.

The USMNT is suffering an ideology problem. The team has grown passed the stage where it needs to be a park the bus counter-attack team against anything but the best opponents. However, learning to be the full-time aggressor, while still playing good defense, is proving to be a problem. I still think the team lacks the creativity to create chances from a possession oriented run-of-play offense, so set pieces and breakawys are going to remain the bread and butter scoring ops for the team, regardless of what Coach Klinsman would prefer.

Sadly, our current coach doesn't seem capable of always distinguishing between when we need to play a defense oriented game against a superior opponent (he got it right versus Italy and in Mexico but wrong versus a superior Belgium and a road qualifier in Honduras) and when we can and should be able to go on the attack. He still wants to partially bunker in away Concacaf qualifiers while playing free at home. Against Germany's B team the U.S. could play even up or better than the opponent, same with Scotland last year. With Belgium's A team we couldn't play that style and he didn't recognize it and we got shelled.

When it comes to the upcoming qualifiers, we should be able to dominate. There isn't a team in Concacaf, except Mexico, that can match the U.S. talent. The lack of confidence we showed in Honduras was a problem, and the general poor play the last time in Jamaica can not be repeated. If the U.S. plays up to potential it should be able to go without losing through the rest of qualifying. I don't think it will happen, but it should. Mexico away was a lucky point, as we were thoroughly dominated, but I'll take it and expect it to happen to us going forward. Now lets move forward with confidence.

Hopefully some of the creative talent that is promised in F. Johnson, Boyd, Holden, Dempsey, Altidore, Bradley, Zusi and a few others can come to the forefront. More importantly, hopefully we can settle in a backline and give them some confidence and experience. Gonzalez, for all his mistakes in the last couple games, is still full of potential and just needs seasoning. To my surprise Evans played well at back as did Beasley and Besler was ok in the center. I think adding some seasoning with Goodson will help. I'd like to see Goodson paired with Gonzalez simply to help Gonzalez along. We will see who else steps up to the plate to settle that back line.

As for Dempsey, he doesn't match Tottenham's needs. It's not that he isn't good enough to play for Spurs in the role he was assigned, and he did play well even if he didn't score as much as hoped, but he isn't flashy enough for Spurs ambition. That is a team that wants to be top 3 or 4 in the EPL, and a "hardworking" player like Dempsey just isn't going to help them move the needle in a playmaking position. Plus, a "playmaking" American just isn't going to cut it with the top European fanbases. They need that position to generate revenue, tickets, shirts and goals, and Dempsey isn't going to do it.

WLCALUM83

Final:  Mexico 1, Jamaica 0  (A 48th minute goal by El Tri holds up. Jamaica misses on several close shots in 2nd half).

woacfan

jknezek, great analysis. 

I had great hopes for Klinsmann, but now wonder if he is up to the task.  I've always thought Americans needed to open up and play more creatively with the ball, but it doesn't seem we have quite enough skill to do that yet.

As for Dempsey,  I hope the best for him.  He left Fulham to get on a Champion's League team, only to have the Spurs not qualify.  I am wondering if he might not have better success at Dortmund, where they don't have a bulging bank account and will be probably be without their star striker...I guess its all idle speculation at this point. 

Anyway,  thanks for the insights...
"We talk about it for 20 minutes and then we decide I was right" - Brian Clough

jknezek

Quote from: woacfan on June 05, 2013, 07:20:19 AM
jknezek, great analysis. 

I had great hopes for Klinsmann, but now wonder if he is up to the task.  I've always thought Americans needed to open up and play more creatively with the ball, but it doesn't seem we have quite enough skill to do that yet.

As for Dempsey,  I hope the best for him.  He left Fulham to get on a Champion's League team, only to have the Spurs not qualify.  I am wondering if he might not have better success at Dortmund, where they don't have a bulging bank account and will be probably be without their star striker...I guess its all idle speculation at this point. 

Anyway,  thanks for the insights...

Don't write off Klinsmann. He is attempting to transform the team, and that is not a simple or quick process. I'm not sure it will be completed in his tenure, but I hope that even if he ends on a sour note, as I think is possible in Brazil, I hope the coach that follows will not revert to our previous philosophy. We have to keep moving forward, even if it is painful at times.

The other thing to remember is that Klinsmann is not a "tactical" coach. His run with Germany was propped up by the tactical genius of Joachim Low, the current German coach. Without Low Klinsmann had a very mediocre (at best) run as a club coach, from which he learned he needs tactical help. Klinsmann is a motivational coach, he deals with players needs and how to train and focus them, but he hasn't shown that he knows how to position them and get them to play team soccer specific to each opponent. Basically Klinsmann needs to have a strong tactical second and I'm not sure Martin Vasquez is good enough at the level we want to play.

If you look at the current players on the USMNT this is, by far, the most talented group we have ever seen. So either they are not gelling well together, or they are being asked to do something they aren't yet capable of doing, or they aren't being set up to succeed. I think it is somewhere between the three, but I do think they are too talented to go back to parking the bus. Klinsmann has the right idea, we are just missing a few pieces. Objectively, the team is probably somewhere between 20 and 40th best in the world. So we should play straight up against 10 through 50, dominate below that and bunker above it (obvious exceptions for road versus home, friendly versus important, etc). The key then becomes, "know how good your opponent is" so you know what style to play.

Here's hoping Klinsmann can figure it out


jknezek

U.S. beats Jamaica 2-1. That's 4pts from 3 road qualifiers. Only Costa Rica and Panama to go on the road. Not bad, not great. Game had some moments, but the inability to keep a clean sheet is going to hurt at some point. The two goals late, one by both teams, made it more interesting than it needed to be. Losing Jones to a concussion could be a problem, losing Zusi to yellow accumulation is a problem for the home game against Panama.

Panama and Honduras at home coming up before the long break to September (as far as qualifiers, there is the endless joy of a meaningless Gold Cup in July, at which we should be heavily favored since Mexico will send a B team while the A team comes off the Confederations Cup). Anyway, picking up 6 home points in the next 2 qualifiers should be expected and, more importantly, put us in decent qualifying shape. 

Remember top 3 automatically go through and number 4 gets New Zealand in a home and home winner qualifies. Jamaica is on early life support, so that just means one more to fall down the ladder and the remaining 4 can fight for who doesn't have to play the life and death matches with Oceania's chip-on-the-shoulder champion.

woacfan

Reading the post-game commentary, sounds like USMNT's recurring problem is putting opponents away.  They take the lead and can't hold it.  If they are going to play a more open game, they probably need to upgrade the back line.

JKnezek, any thoughts on Donovan's exile from/return to the team?  Graham Zusi may have been the man of the match last night and he plays the same spot at Donovan.  Do you move Donovan to the other side and would he be willing to go there?  Back when LD took his brief turn in the Bundesliga, Kinsmann was a big supporter, but now its an icy relationship.  Do you see a spot for "America's Greatest Player"?
"We talk about it for 20 minutes and then we decide I was right" - Brian Clough

jknezek

Quote from: woacfan on June 08, 2013, 12:05:20 PM
Reading the post-game commentary, sounds like USMNT's recurring problem is putting opponents away.  They take the lead and can't hold it.  If they are going to play a more open game, they probably need to upgrade the back line.

JKnezek, any thoughts on Donovan's exile from/return to the team?  Graham Zusi may have been the man of the match last night and he plays the same spot at Donovan.  Do you move Donovan to the other side and would he be willing to go there?  Back when LD took his brief turn in the Bundesliga, Kinsmann was a big supporter, but now its an icy relationship.  Do you see a spot for "America's Greatest Player"?

Couple of points here. The problem is scoring. Every team will tell you they would like more. We had a few more chances last night to score, but it's not like we had 10 good opportunities and got two. We had maybe 5 or 6 and got 2, which isn't great but it's something Mexico would kill for right now!

As for problems with the back line there are really two solutions. As you suggest, better players would help, but really some experience would help. Our back line last night was Gonzalez (under 10 caps), Besler (under 8 caps), Beasley (well capped but under 10 caps in a wing back role), and Brad Evans (under 10 caps and only 2 or 3 on the back line). In front of them we had the well capped Bradley and Jones, and they were both stellar, until Jones went down and in came Cameron, who is on his 14th cap. So really, we have a good young back line, but it is very inexperienced especially with each other. So we may have the players and we're just short of teamwork.

The other problem is we're just not real good at the possession game that Klinsmann wants to play. We aren't bad at it, considering it's relatively new for a U.S. style, but we had only 57% of the possession. A good possession game will have 60+. There were whole 10 and 15 minute stretches where Jamaica had 75% of the possession, and that just isn't what we are trying to make happen. So the guys are playing forward, they are pressing, they are moving forward in possession, but if they give it away it leaves the back line exposed and we give up goals. The foul that led to Jamaica's goal last night was a prime example of this. Doing better on the set piece, of course, would have solved the problem as well. Having 5 plus the goalie behind the ball is different from the 8-9 plus the goalie we have typically played. So our defense may actually be better (not sure that is true, but it's hard to tell across the philosophies), but they are under so much more pressure that we are leaking goals.

Now, on to Donovan. His exile will end at the Gold Cup if he wants it to end. Klinsmann has preached that you have to be playing, you have to be playing to your ability, and you have to be challenging yourself in your league. Taking time off from MLS meets none of those criteria and it really irritated Klinnsman. But Donovan is a veteran playmaker who is still very talented compared to our player pool. He'll be back in some role, but it will interesting where. I see him and Dempsey playing underneath Altidore with F. Johnson, Zusi, Bradley and Jones filling in behind somehow. Just remember, Zusi is out for the next game due to yellow card accumulation and I'm sure Klinnsman wishes he had Donovan available to fill in. Our pool isn't deep enough to ignore Donovan, though I think his days as an automatic starter are coming to a close. He will be around for a while as an option to spell or rotate some of the other playmakers, something that the U.S. has not had a deep enough pool to do in the past.

WLCALUM83


WLCALUM83

Half:  Costa Rica 0, Mexico 0

FCGrizzliesGrad

It looks to me like there are 5 legitimate contenders (don't think Jamaica gets through) not only to advance but to possibly finish 1st. The gap has significantly closed between US/Mexico and the 2nd tier of CONCACAF. I can't imagine what would happen if Mexico not only didn't make the top three but missed the playoff as well.
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