D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

Started by usee, October 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM

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New Tradition

You guys putting a final one together?  I'm super curious to see your 2-8!
I am a NATIONAL Champion, and I refuse to lose!

2015 CCIW Pickem Champ
2015 WIAC Playoff Pickem Champ

MRMIKESMITH

Quote from: New Tradition on December 30, 2019, 08:58:38 AM
You guys putting a final one together?  I'm super curious to see your 2-8!

You would be curious to see who 2 to 8 are. :)

desertcat1

Quote from: FANOFD3 on December 30, 2019, 09:01:15 AM
Quote from: New Tradition on December 30, 2019, 08:58:38 AM
You guys putting a final one together?  I'm super curious to see your 2-8!

You would be curious to see who 2 to 8 are. :)



Mine are in on 23rd.

#2 mtu,uww,sju,wheat,umhb,Chapman, #8 Muhlenberg..  :-*.  Happy Holidays.
" If you are going to be a bear, be a Grizzly"

C.W. Smith

FCGrizzliesGrad

Ballots are still trickling in. Got one today, still waiting on one more. I will post it in the next couple days whether that last ballot comes in or not.
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

FCGrizzliesGrad

Sorry for the extended delay. We finish one ballot short.


D3 Football Map

2019 FINAL TOP 25 FAN POLL

Rank
Team
Points
Prev
1)
North Central (7)
175
6
2)
Mount Union
158
1
3)
UW-Whitewater
156
8
4)
Wheaton
155
3
5)
St John's
146
7
6)
Muhlenberg
142
4
7)
Mary Hardin-Baylor
133
2
8)
Delaware Valley
127
9
9)
Salisbury
120
5
10)
Chapman
101
10
11)
Susquehanna
93
11
12)
Wesley
89
T12
13)
Union
85
T12
14)
Wartburg
73
21
15)
John Carroll
71
14
T16)
Linfield
59
17
T16)
St Thomas
59
16
18)
Bridgewater
58
T18
19)
Central
50
23
20)
Hardin-Simmons
47
20
21)
Redlands
42
15
22)
UW-Oshkosh
34
T18
23)
Aurora
33
NR
24)
Brockport
20
NR
25)
Bethel
16
24

Dropped Out: #22 Berry, #25 Western New England

Also Receiving Votes: Berry 10, Case Western Reserve 9, W New England 7, UW-La Crosse 3, Ithaca 2, Hobart 1, Washington U 1

Voters: 02 Warhawk, bluestreak66, desertcat1, FCGG, MANDGSU, NCF, Oline89, and smedindy
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

FCGrizzliesGrad

  1)   North Central        175     ( 1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1)
  2)   Mount Union          158     ( 2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  6,  6)
  3)   UW-Whitewater        156     ( 2,  2,  3,  4,  4,  4,  7)
  4)   Wheaton              155     ( 2,  2,  3,  3,  5,  5,  7)
  5)   St John's            146     ( 3,  3,  4,  5,  6,  7,  8)
  6)   Muhlenberg           142     ( 4,  4,  5,  5,  7,  7,  8)
  7)   Mary Hardin-Baylor   133     ( 5,  5,  6,  7,  8,  9,  9)
  8)   Delaware Valley      127     ( 4,  6,  6,  8,  9,  9, 13)
  9)   Salisbury            120     ( 6,  8,  9,  9, 10, 10, 10)
10)   Chapman              101     ( 7, 10, 11, 11, 12, 14, 16)
11)   Susquehanna           93     ( 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
12)   Wesley                89     (11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 13, 23)
13)   Union                 85     (10, 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, 24)
14)   Wartburg              73     ( 8, 14, 16, 16, 18, 18, 19)
15)   John Carroll          71     ( 8, 11, 14, 15, 17, 20, --)
T16)   Linfield              59     (12, 15, 15, 17, 19, 19, --)
T16)   St Thomas             59     (13, 14, 14, 19, 20, 21, 22)
18)   Bridgewater           58     (12, 13, 14, 16, 21, 22, --)
19)   Central               50     (15, 17, 17, 18, 20, 21, 24)
20)   Hardin-Simmons        47     (13, 16, 17, 18, 20, 25, --)
21)   Redlands              42     (15, 16, 18, 21, 22, 23, 25)
22)   UW-Oshkosh            34     (17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, --)
23)   Aurora                33     (18, 19, 19, 21, 21, 25, --)
24)   Brockport             20     (18, 22, 23, 24, 24, 25, --)
25)   Bethel                16     (15, 23, 24, --, --, --, --)

26)   Berry                 10     (20, 22)
27)   Case Western Reserve   9     (20, 24, 25)
28)   W New England          7     (22, 23)
29)   UW-La Crosse           3     (23)
30)   Ithaca                 2     (24)
T31)   Hobart                 1     (25)
T31)   Washington U           1     (25)
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

retagent

Since Wheaton was beaten by St John's AT WHEATON, I question having Wheaton ahead of SJU on your ballot. And there are other factors. The Johnnies played UWW pretty even AT UWW. Would love to hear some justification, even though this Poll means nothing. Just curious.

bluestreak66

Quote from: retagent on January 09, 2020, 08:38:30 AM
Since Wheaton was beaten by St John's AT WHEATON, I question having Wheaton ahead of SJU on your ballot. And there are other factors. The Johnnies played UWW pretty even AT UWW. Would love to hear some justification, even though this Poll means nothing. Just curious.

My justification is:

North Central was the best team, and Wheaton beat them. From what I understand, Wheaton played a very under-whelming game against SJU, and still almost pulled it out. Really, if someone put SJU ahead, that would be perfectly reasonable. I feel like after the top 2, you could slot the next 3 any way you see fit
A.M.D.G.
Whose House? STREAKS' HOUSE!

RIP MUC57- "Go everybody!"

2018 CCIW PICK EM'S CHAMPION
2018 & 2019 ODAC POSTSEASON PICK EM'S CHAMPION
2019 OAC POSTSEASON PICK EM'S CHAMPION

Baldini

Since Wheaton beat North Central, should we question having North Central ahead of Wheaton? Since UW-EC beat St. Thomas, should we question having St. Thomas ahead of UW-EC? When applying that logic no one can be voted ahead of someone else unless they are an undefeated team. Since there were no undefeated teams no one can be ranked ahead of anyone.

Massey final top 5 are NC, Wheaton, Mt. Union, Muhlenberg and UW-W.

Hansen final top 5 are NC, Mt. Union, Wheaton, St. John's and UW-W. 


wally_wabash

Not part of this Fan Poll but here was my top 6 in the final Top 25:

1- North Central
2- UWW
3- St. John's
4- Wheaton
5- Mount Union
6- Muhlenberg

There are a lot of justifiable ways to go with 2-5/6. 

I think there's value in advancing through the tournament.  Whitewater won at UMHB and beat St. John's- two extremely impressive wins that Mount Union doesn't have.  In fact, Mount Union did not beat a single team in my final top 25 in 2019.  If Mount Union's best result is a close home loss to the national champion, that overall resume is pretty thin.  At least it is to me.  I know a lot of voters put a lot of value on John Carroll- I didn't.  Just never saw it from the Streaks this year. 

Could Mount Union have won those games that UWW did?  Maybe?  Maybe even probably.  I think if there's anything that this season and this tournament in general should have taught us is that we shouldn't presume wins for anybody.  Which is why I ended up valuing tournament results a bit more than hypothetical tournament results.  Once I'm settled into that path, UWW over St. John's and St. John's over Wheaton was an easy order.  Then I went with Wheaton over Mount Union as Wheaton's best results (W NCC, 1-point loss to SJU) were better than Mount Union's best results (particularly the common opponent).  It sounds strange, but the debate I ended up having was Mount Union at #2 or #5. 

None of that is to say that I'm right and anybody placing Mount Union #2 is wrong.  There's not really a wrong way to have voted in this final poll. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Oline89

Quote from: wally_wabash on January 09, 2020, 03:49:18 PM
Not part of this Fan Poll but here was my top 6 in the final Top 25:

1- North Central
2- UWW
3- St. John's
4- Wheaton
5- Mount Union
6- Muhlenberg

There are a lot of justifiable ways to go with 2-5/6. 

I think there's value in advancing through the tournament.  Whitewater won at UMHB and beat St. John's- two extremely impressive wins that Mount Union doesn't have.  In fact, Mount Union did not beat a single team in my final top 25 in 2019.  If Mount Union's best result is a close home loss to the national champion, that overall resume is pretty thin.  At least it is to me.  I know a lot of voters put a lot of value on John Carroll- I didn't.  Just never saw it from the Streaks this year. 

Could Mount Union have won those games that UWW did?  Maybe?  Maybe even probably.  I think if there's anything that this season and this tournament in general should have taught us is that we shouldn't presume wins for anybody.  Which is why I ended up valuing tournament results a bit more than hypothetical tournament results.  Once I'm settled into that path, UWW over St. John's and St. John's over Wheaton was an easy order.  Then I went with Wheaton over Mount Union as Wheaton's best results (W NCC, 1-point loss to SJU) were better than Mount Union's best results (particularly the common opponent).  It sounds strange, but the debate I ended up having was Mount Union at #2 or #5. 

None of that is to say that I'm right and anybody placing Mount Union #2 is wrong.  There's not really a wrong way to have voted in this final poll.

Let's say you are voting for 2019 in a complete vacuum, no historical influence at all, no preseason poll based on 2018 results.  What are your top 10?  Can you still find a way to justify placing MU in top 5?

FCGrizzliesGrad

Quote from: Oline89 on January 10, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on January 09, 2020, 03:49:18 PM
Not part of this Fan Poll but here was my top 6 in the final Top 25:

1- North Central
2- UWW
3- St. John's
4- Wheaton
5- Mount Union
6- Muhlenberg

There are a lot of justifiable ways to go with 2-5/6. 

I think there's value in advancing through the tournament.  Whitewater won at UMHB and beat St. John's- two extremely impressive wins that Mount Union doesn't have.  In fact, Mount Union did not beat a single team in my final top 25 in 2019.  If Mount Union's best result is a close home loss to the national champion, that overall resume is pretty thin.  At least it is to me.  I know a lot of voters put a lot of value on John Carroll- I didn't.  Just never saw it from the Streaks this year. 

Could Mount Union have won those games that UWW did?  Maybe?  Maybe even probably.  I think if there's anything that this season and this tournament in general should have taught us is that we shouldn't presume wins for anybody.  Which is why I ended up valuing tournament results a bit more than hypothetical tournament results.  Once I'm settled into that path, UWW over St. John's and St. John's over Wheaton was an easy order.  Then I went with Wheaton over Mount Union as Wheaton's best results (W NCC, 1-point loss to SJU) were better than Mount Union's best results (particularly the common opponent).  It sounds strange, but the debate I ended up having was Mount Union at #2 or #5. 

None of that is to say that I'm right and anybody placing Mount Union #2 is wrong.  There's not really a wrong way to have voted in this final poll.

Let's say you are voting for 2019 in a complete vacuum, no historical influence at all, no preseason poll based on 2018 results.  What are your top 10?  Can you still find a way to justify placing MU in top 5?
It was tough this year. Usually you have several unbeatens make the semifinals and can slot them in at the top and build off of that... Muhlenberg was the only unbeaten to get that far which makes everything much more difficult and subjective.
I think a team who definitely was the closest to beating the champs in the playoffs (lost by 7 after leading a lot of the way, Del Val was the only other team within 3 scores) and was otherwise unbeaten is worthy of a Top 5 spot even without the history of Mount.
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem

jamtod

Quote from: Oline89 on January 10, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on January 09, 2020, 03:49:18 PM
Not part of this Fan Poll but here was my top 6 in the final Top 25:

1- North Central
2- UWW
3- St. John's
4- Wheaton
5- Mount Union
6- Muhlenberg

There are a lot of justifiable ways to go with 2-5/6. 

I think there's value in advancing through the tournament.  Whitewater won at UMHB and beat St. John's- two extremely impressive wins that Mount Union doesn't have.  In fact, Mount Union did not beat a single team in my final top 25 in 2019.  If Mount Union's best result is a close home loss to the national champion, that overall resume is pretty thin.  At least it is to me.  I know a lot of voters put a lot of value on John Carroll- I didn't.  Just never saw it from the Streaks this year. 

Could Mount Union have won those games that UWW did?  Maybe?  Maybe even probably.  I think if there's anything that this season and this tournament in general should have taught us is that we shouldn't presume wins for anybody.  Which is why I ended up valuing tournament results a bit more than hypothetical tournament results.  Once I'm settled into that path, UWW over St. John's and St. John's over Wheaton was an easy order.  Then I went with Wheaton over Mount Union as Wheaton's best results (W NCC, 1-point loss to SJU) were better than Mount Union's best results (particularly the common opponent).  It sounds strange, but the debate I ended up having was Mount Union at #2 or #5. 

None of that is to say that I'm right and anybody placing Mount Union #2 is wrong.  There's not really a wrong way to have voted in this final poll.

Let's say you are voting for 2019 in a complete vacuum, no historical influence at all, no preseason poll based on 2018 results.  What are your top 10?  Can you still find a way to justify placing MU in top 5?

Yes, because you still have to go on the limited data available to you and they placed North Central very tough. Quality loss is not a perfect measure, but when limited information is available, it has to factor in as meaningful.

wally_wabash

Quote from: Oline89 on January 10, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
Let's say you are voting for 2019 in a complete vacuum, no historical influence at all, no preseason poll based on 2018 results.  What are your top 10?  Can you still find a way to justify placing MU in top 5?

I think I did that.  Mount Union was a top seed in the tournament, dominated every team less one, and took the national champions to the final snap.  It took huge games (at the same time!) from the NCAA's career passing leader, a 2000 yard receiver and a 2000 yard rusher to beat them- barely.  So yeah, I think, with blinders on to everything except what transpired in 2019, Mount Union is certainly in the top 5.  This wasn't a rebuilding/down cycle Mount Union team (2016, for example).

Now, if you're looking at placing Mount Union outside of the top 10, I think that the bias pendulum has swung all the way to the other side.  Basing their final ranking singularly on the fact that they went out somewhere with teams grouped between 9 and 16 I think is blatantly ignoring their results and performance throughout the season.
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

FCGrizzliesGrad

Time to wake up from your hibernation. It's football season

If you're interested in being part of the Fan Poll this year just send me a PM. Ballots are due on Monday nights. If you need extra time or know you won't be able to get a ballot in that particular week please let me know as soon as you can. The earlier you submit a ballot the more time I'll have to check it and make sure you didn't make any errors or forget a team (and there's usually one every couple weeks that needs revised). Also, please make sure it's clear what team you're selecting... don't use too generic of an abbreviation or something random because I may not know who you're referring to.

If you're in she aouth or east regions Regions 1-3 I strongly hope you'll join. There's usually a low turnout from those areas.

No preseason poll this year so the first poll will be after week 1.
Football picker extraordinaire
5 titles: CCIW, NJAC
4x: ODAC:S
3x: ASC, IIAC, MIAA:S, NACC:S, NCAC, OAC:P, Nat'l
2x: HCAC, MIAC, ODAC:P, WIAC
1x: Bracket, OAC:S

Basketball
2013 WIAC Pickem Co-champ
2015 Nat'l Pickem
2017: LEC and MIAA Pickem
2019: MIAA and WIAC Pickem

Soccer
2023: Mens Pickem