Author Topic: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference  (Read 205508 times)

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1665 on: March 20, 2017, 12:33:09 pm »
Sorry I missed that.  My point remains, however.

What in the world is your point?
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1666 on: March 20, 2017, 01:03:28 pm »
Sorry I missed that.  My point remains, however.

It remains inaccurate, sure.

Scottie -- I know you love your Maryville and USA South, but that conference is really far down the pecking order and is not a national contender right now. Going to have to get better to earn the at-large bids and postseason honors you want.
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Offline scottiedoug

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1667 on: March 21, 2017, 10:21:55 am »
I know that the USA South is what it is and is not. It is very hard for D3 programs to compete with all the scholarship choices players have in the southeast.  Lots of D2 programs lurking around with money to give out!

Does that mean that there are nearly no players in D3 in the South who are All Americans?  Could be, and Pat and Dave, who see national competition, are in a better position than I am to know....

I still think Maryville's women were worthy of a bid....

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1668 on: March 21, 2017, 11:00:43 am »
I know that the USA South is what it is and is not. It is very hard for D3 programs to compete with all the scholarship choices players have in the southeast.  Lots of D2 programs lurking around with money to give out!

Does that mean that there are nearly no players in D3 in the South who are All Americans?  Could be, and Pat and Dave, who see national competition, are in a better position than I am to know....

I still think Maryville's women were worthy of a bid....

FYI - there are D2s around a lot of D3 programs in this country and I can't tell you how many teams either have players who had D2 choices and choose D3... OR transferred out of D2 to a D3 school. Heck, the two teams playing for a national championship in men's basketball this year had D2 transfers and players who decided D3 was a better choice. So the south's "challenge" of having D2s is not unique. As a result, there has to be better reasons for the struggles, because I hear the same comments from the northwest, New Jersey, the northeast, the midwest, etc... but we still see teams get talent and we still see teams compete.

As for the Maryville comment... bid to the tournament or bid for All-America? Bid to the tournament is worth a conversation. However, they were there at the end without the criteria to get in (accordingly to the committee). They need to improve the out of conference schedule a hair, most likely, and not take unnecessary losses in conference to be in a better position (per this year's criteria info).

If it is about All-American opportunities on either set of teams... not sure what I can tell you. That was a very difficult list this year. There were a LOT of players left off who deserved to be there. Heck, both men and women's teams had second-teamers who had arguments to be first-teamers, but there wasn't enough room.
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1669 on: March 21, 2017, 06:28:04 pm »
Selecting 25 A-A players from 400 teams ain't easy. 

Offline scottiedoug

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1670 on: March 22, 2017, 12:28:13 pm »
My comment was about the tournament bid.  We know the role of scheduling and not losing games!  Maryville scheduled and beat some teams that in previous years had had good records and would have helped the SOS if they had performed as "expected."  Still, you need to win (although the only loss to an average team record-wise was a tournament loss to Wittenburg and the conference losses were to Piedmont and Ferrum, the other best teams in the USASouth. And they scheduled Thomas More on purpose.

Dave, any ideas about the current decline in the southeast...even the supposedly mighty ODAC was not its usual self.  I know it has for a long time been the case that the South generally has not competed in D3 at the top level. Too much pork in the diet?


Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1671 on: March 22, 2017, 03:28:36 pm »
scottiedoug - I don't agree with the decline comment. The ODAC women are actually far more competitive now then they have been. That has usually been a one-bid league and this year got two in... easily. I think there is more competition.

On the men's side, things are down for sure, but I think it will be temporary. These things go in waves. Look at the WIAC... down for a year or two and should come roaring back next year in men's basketball.

I wouldn't put much stock in things being "down." That said, it isn't like the South has every been like the Northeast or Central. But look to the Mid-Atlantic to see how things that have been down for years is now surged back into the national conversation.
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Offline scottiedoug

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1672 on: March 23, 2017, 10:49:55 am »
So is it possible to determine why these swings happen?  It also is the case in D1, of course. New coaches? I am not a big fan of the idea that things "just happen," but have no other explanations.

I appreciate your role in D3Hoops.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1673 on: March 23, 2017, 11:50:44 am »
Oh I think recruiting goes in waves. I think when some teams have had a number of players in previous years, future recruits may not be interested because they don't see opportunities to play while another team with less recruits have more opportunities (not true across the board, but I have seen waves at schools like that).

New coaches affects a lot. Where their high schools "point" their students has an affect (and that changes often). Influences on high school students as well including their families, where they want to go, etc.

I think the biggest thing as well is that there is more talent out there and thus there are more options especially in Division III women's basketball. I will never forget Nancy Fahey saying to me after I asked her why it seemed harded to win national titles for the Bears now versus then - "there are a lot more talented girls playing basketball now." In other words, more talent at more schools. As a result, there are more options and recruits are constantly looking around. Also I think there is far more awareness of Division III schools outside of the immediate "area" for many. There are numerous reasons for that, but the key being players may be more aware of schools further away and thus schools don't have the same area to pull players from because they are looking elsewhere.

If the South remains "down" for a few more seasons, than I think more is going on. If they return, then the wave idea is more prevalent.
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1674 on: May 03, 2017, 05:49:17 pm »
New story on Trinity rising senior Micah Weaver:   https://new.trinity.edu/news/driving-court

Also answers the (unlikely) question as to Monica Holguin returning (she has a year of eligibility remaining):  "Despite losing five seniors, Hill has recruited six rising first-years, all “really good” in Weaver’s estimation."   There were exactly five seniors on this year's roster.

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1675 on: May 04, 2017, 12:28:40 pm »
I'm not sure I'd take that as the final word. It's a throwaway line by someone who might not know the details.
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1676 on: May 05, 2017, 04:39:16 pm »
Well, I'd be thrilled to be wrong ...

In other Monica Holguin news, her jersey is going to be on display at the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame's "Ring of Honor":

https://twitter.com/joe_shot/status/860185246158999553