MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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USee


GoPerry

Congratulations to the Titans on a gritty, gritty win.  Wheaton fought hard and easily played it's best game of the season but couldn't sustain it.  I was very pleased to see Joel Smith and Michael Berg finally assert themselves in the paint with some good success – both of them really progressing from early in the season.  Teuscher gave IWU all they could handle.  DeMoss eye-popping 7 turnovers, several down the crucial stretch, really hurt as did the Thunder's nagging and somewhat mystifying inability to do anything against a zone defense which Ron Rose used almost exclusively in the last 5 minutes and practically threw a shutout the rest of the game. 

But those factors are peripheral to the greater narrative, that of Wheaton's lack of depth to which Mike Schauer alluded in the post-game.  With Luis Miller out and now Riley Teuscher getting injured early in the game(did not return), the # of minutes played are sticking out like a Jordan Nelson salute(didn't see any tonight by the way).  4 out of 5 starters playing 34 minutes or more – Berg 39, and that tells the fatigue story.  As noted earlier in the season, simply not able to put enough talent on the floor throughout the entire game and asking the 2 freshmen Dillard and Samuelson to pick up the slack. 

For Wesleyan, Jordan Nelson (20 pts) played a very good game, having to guard Teuscher a lot, but hitting crucial baskets when his team needed them.  Otherwise a nicely even box score.  Perhaps the Titan's most crucial contribution however was Pat Sodemann's 10 pts, all coming from a jumper, a layup and 2 huge 3's, all consecutive, at the end of the 1st half to keep his team close when Wheaton was looking to go into halftime up 10 or so.  One had the feeling that the Titan's had taken Wheaton's best shot and were only down by 5 pts after 20 mins.

Might've helped to have a loud student section but they don't return from break until Monday.  Maybe a few will be back for NCC Saturday.

izzy stradlin

I don't buy the injury excuses that Schauer gave in the post-game. None of their top 5 players are injured and Wheaton had enough good players on the court to lead for the majority of the game. Give IWU credit for grinding out a W and finally sticking with the zone.  Nate Frank mentioned several times during the broadcast that he thought the Titans should stay in their zone and when they finally did, Wheaton stopped scoring.  This is not a new problem for Wheaton.     

thunder38

Quote from: izzy stradlin on January 07, 2015, 10:48:52 PM
I don't buy the injury excuses that Schauer gave in the post-game. None of their top 5 players are injured and Wheaton had enough good players on the court to lead for the majority of the game. Give IWU credit for grinding out a W and finally sticking with the zone.  Nate Frank mentioned several times during the broadcast that he thought the Titans should stay in their zone and when they finally did, Wheaton stopped scoring.  This is not a new problem for Wheaton.   

To be fair I don't think Schauer was using the injuries as an excuse, it sounded like he was just lamenting the fact that it's a problem that Wheaton has been fortunate enough not to have to battle for a long time. Also, Luis Miller had been been starting for a much of the year and given his defensive versatility, he probably is one of Wheaton's top 5 players. I couldn't understand why it took IWU so long to stay in the zone down the stretch. It proved to be the difference in the end. Give the minutes that his starters were racking up again tonight, I expected Schauer to go to the zone a couple of times in the second half as he did at Elmhurst but it never happened. Brayden was special again tonight with 24 points and really getting wherever he wanted to on the floor but the details continue to elude Wheaton. You can't have a point guard turn the ball over that many times. You might see Brayden start to be the primary ballhandler for Wheaton and Caleb move to the 2-guard just to try to avoid that.

This was one Wheaton needed but just didn't have enough in the tank down the stretch to get. These are two very similar teams and probably going to be battling with Elmhurst for that 3-5 spots towards the end of the year. In my opinion, Ron Rose needs to shorten the rotation moving forward to get the most out of this team. His 6th-9th guys can handle the minutes to avoid having to go 11-12 deep like he tried to do early in this game and led to some liabilities.
You win some, you lose some, and sometimes it rains.

kiko

Rounding out the scoring:

North Central 62, Millikin 46 at the Griz
Carthage 67, North Park 60 at the Crackerbox

Quote from: USee on January 07, 2015, 10:31:59 PM
How many 3-goggles for Jordan?

I didn't mention this earlier as the consensus on the board seemed to be that the local citizenry was happy to let the 3-goggle topic die.  But in Saturday's game there was a very clear 3-goggle... from Jayme Moten.  It came during the second-half deadball right after he hit the trey during which North Central was called for a foul while his shot was in the air.  I couldn't help but laugh when I saw it.

FWIW, I think there's as much place for it (read as: none) on the Naperville side of things as there is for the Green Weenies.

izzy stradlin

Quote from: thunder38 on January 07, 2015, 11:03:01 PM
Quote from: izzy stradlin on January 07, 2015, 10:48:52 PM
I don't buy the injury excuses that Schauer gave in the post-game. None of their top 5 players are injured and Wheaton had enough good players on the court to lead for the majority of the game. Give IWU credit for grinding out a W and finally sticking with the zone.  Nate Frank mentioned several times during the broadcast that he thought the Titans should stay in their zone and when they finally did, Wheaton stopped scoring.  This is not a new problem for Wheaton.   

To be fair I don't think Schauer was using the injuries as an excuse, it sounded like he was just lamenting the fact that it's a problem that Wheaton has been fortunate enough not to have to battle for a long time. Also, Luis Miller had been been starting for a much of the year and given his defensive versatility, he probably is one of Wheaton's top 5 players. I couldn't understand why it took IWU so long to stay in the zone down the stretch. It proved to be the difference in the end. Give the minutes that his starters were racking up again tonight, I expected Schauer to go to the zone a couple of times in the second half as he did at Elmhurst but it never happened. Brayden was special again tonight with 24 points and really getting wherever he wanted to on the floor but the details continue to elude Wheaton. You can't have a point guard turn the ball over that many times. You might see Brayden start to be the primary ballhandler for Wheaton and Caleb move to the 2-guard just to try to avoid that.

This was one Wheaton needed but just didn't have enough in the tank down the stretch to get. These are two very similar teams and probably going to be battling with Elmhurst for that 3-5 spots towards the end of the year. In my opinion, Ron Rose needs to shorten the rotation moving forward to get the most out of this team. His 6th-9th guys can handle the minutes to avoid having to go 11-12 deep like he tried to do early in this game and led to some liabilities.

When a coach comes on a post-game interview after a heart-breaking loss to your biggest rival and the first thing he brings up are injuries, it just doesn't sit well with me.  You would never see Swider do that.  Sure, there are injuries and that's unfortunate and something to talk about behind closed doors. Wheaton has lost 2 of their top 8 but none of their stars. Big deal. I am sure many teams in the top 3 of the CCIW have had similar losses over the years. The team that Wheaton put on the floor didn't run out of gass, they couldn't attack the zone. Injuries are something you can't control and when a coach brings them up he is subconsciously saying "it's not my fault". 

veterancciwfan

IWU won with 50% FG, 55.5% on 3s (11/20) and 81.8% on FTs. Regarding TOs, IWU threw the ball away more than Wheaton (16TOs to only 12 for Wheaton) so Wheaton was the winner in that aspect of the game, scoring 19 points off TOs compared to IWU's 12. Wheaton lost because of horrible 3 point shooting (1/16) and because IWU's senior leaders (Overstreet, Nelson & Sodemann) played like experienced seniors do, especially in the last 2 minutes of the game. Nelson's 3 from the right corner with 2:02 broke a 64 all tie and was the biggest shot of the game. And Overstreet protected the lead with 2 or 3 rebounds after that. And as mentioned in an earlier post, Sodemann kept IWU in the game in the first half which provided IWU momentum and hope going into the locker room at halftime. And Ron Rose's decisions in the last 5 minutes were critically correct. Now IWU has 3 Shirk games before traveling to Rock Island on Jan. 21 where Hunter Hill plays like Superman. I have to look at the numbers, but Hill, as I remember, was not a Superman in CCIW road games last year.

GoPerry

Quote from: izzy stradlin on January 07, 2015, 11:49:50 PM
Quote from: thunder38 on January 07, 2015, 11:03:01 PM
Quote from: izzy stradlin on January 07, 2015, 10:48:52 PM
I don't buy the injury excuses that Schauer gave in the post-game. None of their top 5 players are injured and Wheaton had enough good players on the court to lead for the majority of the game. Give IWU credit for grinding out a W and finally sticking with the zone.  Nate Frank mentioned several times during the broadcast that he thought the Titans should stay in their zone and when they finally did, Wheaton stopped scoring.  This is not a new problem for Wheaton.   

To be fair I don't think Schauer was using the injuries as an excuse, it sounded like he was just lamenting the fact that it's a problem that Wheaton has been fortunate enough not to have to battle for a long time. Also, Luis Miller had been been starting for a much of the year and given his defensive versatility, he probably is one of Wheaton's top 5 players. I couldn't understand why it took IWU so long to stay in the zone down the stretch. It proved to be the difference in the end. Give the minutes that his starters were racking up again tonight, I expected Schauer to go to the zone a couple of times in the second half as he did at Elmhurst but it never happened. Brayden was special again tonight with 24 points and really getting wherever he wanted to on the floor but the details continue to elude Wheaton. You can't have a point guard turn the ball over that many times. You might see Brayden start to be the primary ballhandler for Wheaton and Caleb move to the 2-guard just to try to avoid that.

This was one Wheaton needed but just didn't have enough in the tank down the stretch to get. These are two very similar teams and probably going to be battling with Elmhurst for that 3-5 spots towards the end of the year. In my opinion, Ron Rose needs to shorten the rotation moving forward to get the most out of this team. His 6th-9th guys can handle the minutes to avoid having to go 11-12 deep like he tried to do early in this game and led to some liabilities.

When a coach comes on a post-game interview after a heart-breaking loss to your biggest rival and the first thing he brings up are injuries, it just doesn't sit well with me.  You would never see Swider do that.  Sure, there are injuries and that's unfortunate and something to talk about behind closed doors. Wheaton has lost 2 of their top 8 but none of their stars. Big deal. I am sure many teams in the top 3 of the CCIW have had similar losses over the years. The team that Wheaton put on the floor didn't run out of gass, they couldn't attack the zone. Injuries are something you can't control and when a coach brings them up he is subconsciously saying "it's not my fault".

Respectfully, but totally disagree.  Nobody was making excuses, least of all Schauer.  He was merely stating what several on this board have already said several times – Wheaton's roster from day one was top heavy with a bench that only went 2 or 3 deep and so the starters have been logging heavy minutes anyhow since November.   Thus in losing a starter(Miller for the season) and first guy off the bench(R Teuscher), it shortens your bench to a chair, forces more minutes on your starters, and that won't hold up against a deep and experienced team like IWU and a league like ours.  RR going to the zone kept Wheaton from scoring at the foul line and made them take jumpers down the stretch which are tougher (not impossible, just tougher) when you've logged high minutes(see WashU loss).  WC finally lost the lead and thus weren't able to force the Titans out of the 2-3.

This is not taking anything away from IWU who hit key baskets when they needed, played tough defense, and are just deeper talent-wise.

robertgoulet

Quote from: kiko on January 07, 2015, 11:48:04 PM
Rounding out the scoring:

North Central 62, Millikin 46 at the Griz
Carthage 67, North Park 60 at the Crackerbox

Quote from: USee on January 07, 2015, 10:31:59 PM
How many 3-goggles for Jordan?

I didn't mention this earlier as the consensus on the board seemed to be that the local citizenry was happy to let the 3-goggle topic die.  But in Saturday's game there was a very clear 3-goggle... from Jayme Moten.  It came during the second-half deadball right after he hit the trey during which North Central was called for a foul while his shot was in the air.  I couldn't help but laugh when I saw it.

FWIW, I think there's as much place for it (read as: none) on the Naperville side of things as there is for the Green Weenies.

Count Goulet as pro-3 goggle. Let the kids have fun. It's D3 basketball. It's not that serious.
You win! You always do!

toooldtohoop

Quote from: GoPerry on January 08, 2015, 08:52:41 AM
Quote from: izzy stradlin on January 07, 2015, 11:49:50 PM
Quote from: thunder38 on January 07, 2015, 11:03:01 PM
Quote from: izzy stradlin on January 07, 2015, 10:48:52 PM
I don't buy the injury excuses that Schauer gave in the post-game. None of their top 5 players are injured and Wheaton had enough good players on the court to lead for the majority of the game. Give IWU credit for grinding out a W and finally sticking with the zone.  Nate Frank mentioned several times during the broadcast that he thought the Titans should stay in their zone and when they finally did, Wheaton stopped scoring.  This is not a new problem for Wheaton.   

To be fair I don't think Schauer was using the injuries as an excuse, it sounded like he was just lamenting the fact that it's a problem that Wheaton has been fortunate enough not to have to battle for a long time. Also, Luis Miller had been been starting for a much of the year and given his defensive versatility, he probably is one of Wheaton's top 5 players. I couldn't understand why it took IWU so long to stay in the zone down the stretch. It proved to be the difference in the end. Give the minutes that his starters were racking up again tonight, I expected Schauer to go to the zone a couple of times in the second half as he did at Elmhurst but it never happened. Brayden was special again tonight with 24 points and really getting wherever he wanted to on the floor but the details continue to elude Wheaton. You can't have a point guard turn the ball over that many times. You might see Brayden start to be the primary ballhandler for Wheaton and Caleb move to the 2-guard just to try to avoid that.

This was one Wheaton needed but just didn't have enough in the tank down the stretch to get. These are two very similar teams and probably going to be battling with Elmhurst for that 3-5 spots towards the end of the year. In my opinion, Ron Rose needs to shorten the rotation moving forward to get the most out of this team. His 6th-9th guys can handle the minutes to avoid having to go 11-12 deep like he tried to do early in this game and led to some liabilities.

When a coach comes on a post-game interview after a heart-breaking loss to your biggest rival and the first thing he brings up are injuries, it just doesn't sit well with me.  You would never see Swider do that.  Sure, there are injuries and that's unfortunate and something to talk about behind closed doors. Wheaton has lost 2 of their top 8 but none of their stars. Big deal. I am sure many teams in the top 3 of the CCIW have had similar losses over the years. The team that Wheaton put on the floor didn't run out of gass, they couldn't attack the zone. Injuries are something you can't control and when a coach brings them up he is subconsciously saying "it's not my fault".

Respectfully, but totally disagree.  Nobody was making excuses, least of all Schauer.  He was merely stating what several on this board have already said several times – Wheaton's roster from day one was top heavy with a bench that only went 2 or 3 deep and so the starters have been logging heavy minutes anyhow since November.   Thus in losing a starter(Miller for the season) and first guy off the bench(R Teuscher), it shortens your bench to a chair, forces more minutes on your starters, and that won't hold up against a deep and experienced team like IWU and a league like ours.  RR going to the zone kept Wheaton from scoring at the foul line and made them take jumpers down the stretch which are tougher (not impossible, just tougher) when you've logged high minutes(see WashU loss).  WC finally lost the lead and thus weren't able to force the Titans out of the 2-3.

This is not taking anything away from IWU who hit key baskets when they needed, played tough defense, and are just deeper talent-wise.

I can see how someone who listened to Schauer's post game comments could assume he is making excuses.  However, I don't think he has a history of that behavior, and has in fact been very candid and blunt about his teams.  So FWIW, I choose to focus on his comments at the end about character and program, and how this team will respond in those areas in the face of a season that will not be what we all hoped it might be.

Lots of games to go.  I believe these guys can beat anybody in the conference on any given night.  But the hill got bigger and steeper after last night.

Congrats to IWU.  I think Rose had a great game plan for the Thunder.  Clearly physical early, perhaps hoping to create foul trouble for us and force us to our bench.  Fortunately, the Thunder played well defensively and stayed out of trouble.  His move to zone after Riley went down proved to be wise. Unfortunately, as has been well documented above, our zone offense struggled.  Good chance we will see more zone as the season progresses

Also, I was pleased to witness the court demeanor of Nelson.  He had a great shooting night without any flamboyance.  He let his shot speak for itself.

WUPHF

Quote from: robertgoulet on January 08, 2015, 09:46:27 AM
Let the kids have fun. It's D3 basketball. It's not that serious.

I would suggest that we should apply this to the coaches as well.

I have to think that every coach who is down a player or two is thinking about what might have been had the team been where he expected them to be.  Coaches are human after all.

veterancciwfan

Two side notes from the IWU/Wheaton game: 1) The Wheaton PA guy needs to brush up on his pronunciation of central IL towns. He said Berg was from Ma-NEAT- o rather than MAN- i-toe. Manito is a NEAT town with its world famous Popcorn Festival on Labor Day weekend. Wheaton fans, ask Michael about the fabulous smell of chickens roasting on open pits on Saturday morning. Without Berg, Wheaton loses by 20 or more. He was a monster on the boards with 10, 5 each way. He had at least 3 offfensive RBs in 1st half. 2) At halftime, a game was played by 4th and 5th grade boys from Wheaton and Glen Ellyn. The Wheaton team wore orange and navy and the Glen Ellyn team wore hunter green uniforms with TITANS in white lettering on the jersey. I told my wife this has to be an omen. Glen Ellyn won and I relaxed knowing IWU would play a great 2nd half, outscoring the Thunder 41-27. I agree that Wheaton just ran out of gas in the last 5 minutes. Of the 5 starters, the one with the fewest minutes was Joel Smith with 27 and the other 4 played 34, 39, 35 & 34 minutes. The sub with the most minutes was Berntsen, a small guard, with 19 minutes and little production

Pat Coleman

I've never been to Manito but because of this board (and a certain D3hoops.com All-American) I'm very familiar with the amount of corn in Manito.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2015, 11:49:51 AM
I've never been to Manito but because of this board (and a certain D3hoops.com All-American) I'm very familiar with the amount of corn in Manito.

Though I've never seen a comparison of the corn in Manito and the tea in China. ;)

mwunder

Quote from: AndOne on January 06, 2015, 12:53:05 AM
So the above statement by Bosko, surmising he can't finish 7th because its never happened before, wasn't, among other things, "outlandish" as I termed it??

Do you really think that Bosko surmised that his team couldn't finish 7th because it had never happened to him before?  That because he's the great and mighty Bosko that he couldn't POSSIBLY finish in 7th place?  That A always follows B?  Or do you think that Bosko thought, AT THE TIME HE MADE THE STATEMENT, that his team was better than a 7th place team?  It's certainly not outlandish for a coach to think he's has a squad that is better than 7th place, is it?