2015 D3 Season: NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE

Started by D3soccerwatcher, February 08, 2015, 12:49:03 AM

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Flying Weasel

Rutgers-Newark, a team on the rise the past couple season, has released their schedule:
Article: http://rutgersnewarkathletics.com/news/2015/6/22/MSOC_0622155331.aspx
Schedule: http://rutgersnewarkathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc

Beyond the NJAC slate they have the following noteworthy non-conference matches:
SUNY Cortland (16-5-1) - SUNYAC runner-up, NCAA Sweet 16
Stevens Tech (14-4-2) - Empire 8 champs, NCAA 2nd Rnd
Rochester (10-5-4) - NCAA 2nd Rnd (elim. on PKs)
Merchant Marine (10-7-3) - Landmark runner-up (PK loss in final)
NYU (11-7-1)
Johns Hopkins (9-7-2)

That combined with conference rivals Montclair St., Rutgers-Camden, et.al. should make for a pretty tough schedule.

4231CenterBack

D3SW - I know all three of the coaches you mentioned in your post. They're all quality individuals and have their own strengths and weaknesses. Don't we all.  Speaking specifically about Jake. I think you raise a legitimate question.  His results at Gordon were mixed, he had some successes, but he never got them to a place where they could compete for the tournament every year.  He brought in Matt Horth who is now having a fantastic professional career in Atlanta and other places.....even had a cup of coffee with the Revolution. He brought in Andrew Vandervort who was a first team all-American a couple years back. I think Jake deserves credit for building a decent foundation for what's going on at Gordon right now. Jake is a solid, soft-spoken, high character guy.

I would not characterize him as a transformative figure however. Somebody who's going to, by sheer force of will, take a program to the next level. Potteiger is very much that type of guy. The good news is I don't think that's needed a place like Wheaton.  They can recruit from anywhere in the country and even the rest of the world.  They are historically one of the best two or three programs in division three soccer.  They aspire to, and believe they should be where Messiah is. If they don't go deep into the tournament every year, the alumni especially, consider it a failure. That creates considerable pressure and expectations for anybody who's coaching there......


Flying Weasel

Oneonta State's schedule: http://www.oneontaathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc&

Besides SUNYAC rivals like Cortland St., Brockport St., Plattsburg St., etc., their non-conference slate is very solid, and all the more so given they have to go on the road for all their toughest opponents:
A - Montclair St. (17-5-0) - NJAC Champs, NCAA 1st Rnd loss
A - Williams (8-6-2) - NESCAC
A - RPI (12-4-3) - Liberty League 2nd Place
A - Morrisville St. (16-3-1) - NEAC Champs, NCAA 2nd Rnd (1-0 loss at Messiah)
A - Lycoming (15-3-3) - Commonwealth 2nd Place
A - Vassar (11-6-2) - Liberty League 3rd Place

They will only be at home for two games (their own Mayor's Cup tournament) in September, hitting the road for seven games.  That's followed by six straight home games in three weeks (mostly SUNYAC games) to open October, closing out the regular season with two road SUNYAC games and a trip to Lycoming.  Interesting schedule.

D3soccerwatcher

Quote from: 4231CenterBack on June 27, 2015, 11:33:48 AM
D3SW - I know all three of the coaches you mentioned in your post. They're all quality individuals and have their own strengths and weaknesses. Don't we all.  Speaking specifically about Jake. I think you raise a legitimate question.  His results at Gordon were mixed, he had some successes, but he never got them to a place where they could compete for the tournament every year.  He brought in Matt Horth who is now having a fantastic professional career in Atlanta and other places.....even had a cup of coffee with the Revolution. He brought in Andrew Vandervort who was a first team all-American a couple years back. I think Jake deserves credit for building a decent foundation for what's going on at Gordon right now. Jake is a solid, soft-spoken, high character guy.

I would not characterize him as a transformative figure however. Somebody who's going to, by sheer force of will, take a program to the next level. Potteiger is very much that type of guy. The good news is I don't think that's needed a place like Wheaton.  They can recruit from anywhere in the country and even the rest of the world.  They are historically one of the best two or three programs in division three soccer.  They aspire to, and believe they should be where Messiah is. If they don't go deep into the tournament every year, the alumni especially, consider it a failure. That creates considerable pressure and expectations for anybody who's coaching there......

Great insightful post.  A few comments...

There was a one year coach who served between DeClute and Potteiger at Gordon.  The Gordon program suffered quite badly that year.  So there was no momentum at all when Potteiger took control.  But I think you are absolutely correct that Potteiger is a transformative coach.  I have no doubt that program will continue to rise.

I have had the privilege to see Wheaton play numerous times in the past several years.  Wow - some tremendous talent.  But it always seemed to me that something was lacking..systemically missing.  They play at an incredibly frantic pace on their artificial turf field.  But as fast as they play, there just doesn't seem to be clear focus to it.  Not sure I'd place them in the top three D3 programs historically.  Sure over the past 15 seasons they have made it to the Final 4 twice.  In 2006, losing soundly to Messiah 3-0. and of course we all saw what happened last season when they hit the Tufts buzzsaw.  In those same past 15 seasons, Messiah has been to the championship final 10 times and has won every one of those games (10X National Champions).  While Wheaton is a program consistently with a ton of talent (and I really like their team), and they may deeply desire to be where Messiah is...it looks to me like they have a quite a ways to go before they can expect to be considered in that rarified air.

And I also do agree that Wheaton alumni do put a lot of pressure on the program...with very high expectations.  And with the talent they have returning, including Marshall Hollingsworth (top prospect for NPOY), I think there are very high expectations for the team this season.  It will be interesting to see how DeClute handles it in his first year at the helm.  I wish him and his team the very best and I will be watching.

WilltheMan

Quote from: Flying Weasel on June 28, 2015, 07:53:10 AM
Oneonta State's schedule: http://www.oneontaathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc&

Besides SUNYAC rivals like Cortland St., Brockport St., Plattsburg St., etc., their non-conference slate is very solid, and all the more so given they have to go on the road for all their toughest opponents:
A - Montclair St. (17-5-0) - NJAC Champs, NCAA 1st Rnd loss
A - Williams (8-6-2) - NESCAC
A - RPI (12-4-3) - Liberty League 2nd Place
A - Morrisville St. (16-3-1) - NEAC Champs, NCAA 2nd Rnd (1-0 loss at Messiah)
A - Lycoming (15-3-3) - Commonwealth 2nd Place
A - Vassar (11-6-2) - Liberty League 3rd Place

They will only be at home for two games (their own Mayor's Cup tournament) in September, hitting the road for seven games.  That's followed by six straight home games in three weeks (mostly SUNYAC games) to open October, closing out the regular season with two road SUNYAC games and a trip to Lycoming.  Interesting schedule.

I'm sure this will draw some ire from the Wheaton clan but that semi final result was against the run of play.  I watched the game and it was a disaster of a ref job with the coup de grace the disallowed goal that would have ended the game.  Strong returning cast and I'm sure they are a little fired up.  No bone to pick, I'm a Nescac guy but hot-damn that team played well.

Flying Weasel

Quote from: WilltheMan on June 29, 2015, 01:33:19 PMI'm sure this will draw some ire from the Wheaton clan but that semi final result was against the run of play.  I watched the game and it was a disaster of a ref job with the coup de grace the disallowed goal that would have ended the game.  Strong returning cast and I'm sure they are a little fired up.  No bone to pick, I'm a Nescac guy but hot-damn that team played well.

I totally agree that Oneonta was very good last year and quite dangerous in that semifinal.  But in regulation (90 min.), Wheaton still somehow got off 17 shots (to Oneonta's 4), 6 SOG (vs. 4), so saying they won against the run of play may be stretching it.  And as to the disallowed goal, a photographer perfectly captured the Wheaton goalkeeper getting two hands on the ball before the Oneonta player's foot struck the ball.  Whether the ball came loose in the fraction of a second between when the photo was taken and the Oneonta player struck the ball, I don't know. 

from http://d3soccer.com/notables/2014/12/NCAA_Semi_Mens


Finally, you are correct that Oneonta returns most of the squad that had them on the brink of the national title game.  On paper, they certainly should be in the mix again.

WilltheMan

#186
Quote from: Flying Weasel on June 29, 2015, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: WilltheMan on June 29, 2015, 01:33:19 PMI'm sure this will draw some ire from the Wheaton clan but that semi final result was against the run of play.  I watched the game and it was a disaster of a ref job with the coup de grace the disallowed goal that would have ended the game.  Strong returning cast and I'm sure they are a little fired up.  No bone to pick, I'm a Nescac guy but hot-damn that team played well.

I totally agree that Oneonta was very good last year and quite dangerous in that semifinal.  But in regulation (90 min.), Wheaton still somehow got off 17 shots (to Oneonta's 4), 6 SOG (vs. 4), so saying they won against the run of play may be stretching it.  And as to the disallowed goal, a photographer perfectly captured the Wheaton goalkeeper getting two hands on the ball before the Oneonta player's foot struck the ball.  Whether the ball came loose in the fraction of a second between when the photo was taken and the Oneonta player struck the ball, I don't know. 

from http://d3soccer.com/notables/2014/12/NCAA_Semi_Mens


Finally, you are correct that Oneonta returns most of the squad that had them on the brink of the national title game.  On paper, they certainly should be in the mix again.

I wasn't  looking to rehash-- we watched a tape after game, just my opinion that a shot from 30 that the goalie picks up might be less dangerous that one that clips of the post from 12 and doesn't count as a shot on.  If you are curious find a tape and watch it.  Oneonta could/should have had 6 goals.  The PK was a joke, couple of off sides that weren't negating breakaway's really, truly, a disaster.   I would want to go look but I think that ball squirted away(not 100% sure).....and it doesn't matter, they should just be good again, that's all.  Byrne had class after, but it must have been difficult.

(modified by GS for formatting)

Saint of Old

"Sure over the past 15 seasons they have made it to the Final 4 twice."

Actually, that would be three final fours Wheaton has made in the last 15 years.
And more impressive 3 Finals in the last 15 years.
In 1999 They hosted and played in the final game
I think they might have done the same in '06
And ofcoarse a very good run last season.

That's added to two stars on their chest from 85 and 97.

The boyz from PA can never be counted out, but I tell you D3 is more open now than it has been in the last 20 years.
Not since the Coach Russo's  boyz went all the way in 95  has the soccer throne been this open.

Messiah is strong, but no longer inspire the fear they once did.
Tufts, partially responsible for the sentence above, is a hungry new power who I do not think will fade.
They seem to be the type of program that a Championship will only propel to greater heights. Kinda like it did for the team above.
Amherst and Oneonta players can cement their legacies by bringing their school that first title, while the talent is there.
Loras and Stevens too can turn potential and class into rings.
Trinity Tx brings it year in year out and we have a couple great traditional powers losing the coaches that built their programs.

Nutmeg


Flying Weasel

#189
Quote from: 4231CenterBack on June 27, 2015, 11:33:48 AM
. . . Wheaton.  They can recruit from anywhere in the country and even the rest of the world.  They are historically one of the best two or three programs in division three soccer.  They aspire to, and believe they should be where Messiah is. If they don't go deep into the tournament every year, the alumni especially, consider it a failure. . . .

Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on June 28, 2015, 06:05:02 PM
. . . Not sure I'd place them in the top three D3 programs historically.  Sure over the past 15 seasons they have made it to the Final 4 twice.  In 2006, losing soundly to Messiah 3-0. and of course we all saw what happened last season when they hit the Tufts buzzsaw.  In those same past 15 seasons, Messiah has been to the championship final 10 times and has won every one of those games (10X National Champions).  . . .

D3soccerwatcher, I think it would be very hard not to have Wheaton (Ill.) in the top 3 all-time.  Only Ohio Wesleyan can match/top Wheaton's consistency across all 41 years of Division III's existence.  Take a look at their resume below.

I think Messiah, Ohio Wesleyan, and Wheaton (Ill.) are the best bets for the top 3.  Messiah makes the cut on shear dominace over the last 15 years combined with their pair of Final Fours runs in the 80's despite only joining D-III eight years after its inception.  Ohio Wesleyan and Wheaton (Ill.) have been Top 25 programs practically the entire history of Division III and the leaders in NCAA tournament appearances.  UNC-Greensboro was dominant for a seven-year period (1981-1988) but left D-III at that point meaning they have not been a D-III member for well over half of its history.  UC San Diego has a stronger case because they hung around a bit longer before moving to D-II, being a top program for about 15 years (1983-1999) before their departure, but other programs that have remained in D-III have now matched their success numerically.  Williams would probably have a strong case for the top 3 if not for the NESCAC's ban on post-season play up until 1993.  And if this discussion was being held 10 or more years ago, Rowan would be in the top 3, but their drastic decline in the new mellenuim has seen them fall well behind Wheaton and Ohio Wesleyan. 

Those are the contenders, and to me it's clear Wheaton is in the top 3.  An NCAA D-III Finalist in four different decades; two titles; top 3 in all-time D-III tournament appearances, wins, Sweet 16's, and Elite 8's; two of the five longest D-III unbeaten streaks coming in different decades; and an .750 overall winning pct. across 41 years.




WHEATON (ILL.) MEN'S SOCCER - DIVISION III ERA (1974 - 2014)

Overall Record: 632-188-68 (.750)

NCAA Appearances: 35 - second only to Ohio Wesleyan's 37 years participating; third best is 24 appearances (eleven less than Wheaton) by Messiah, Rowan, and Elizabethtown.

NCAA Wins: 48 - third most behind Messiah (74) and Ohio Wesleyan (61); ahead of Williams (36) and Trinity-TX (36).

NCAA Winning Percentage: .604 over 82 tournament games played

NCAA Sweet 16's: 23 (spread across 39 years) - second most behind Ohio Wesleyan (28) and one ahead of Messiah (22).

NCAA Elite 8's: 13 (spread across 39 years) - third most after Messiah (17) and Ohio Wesleyan (16); ahead of Williams (11).

NCAA Final Fours: 6 - only three schools have more: Messiah (14), Ohio Wesleyan (10), and Rowan (7).

NCAA Finalist: 5 times in four different decades spanning 31 years - only Messiah (10) has been to the title game more; Rowan's and Ohio Wesleyan's four title game appearances spanned 22 years.

Championships: 2 - only four schools have more: one is Messiah (10), UNC-Greensboro (5) and UC-San Diego (3) left D-III a long time ago, and Babson (3) won all of their titles by 1980.

Unbeaten Streaks: 66 games (1996-98), longest all-time in men's collegiate soccer; and 39 games (1984-85), fifth longest in men's D-III history.

lastguyoffthebench

Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on June 26, 2015, 10:04:46 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on May 28, 2015, 10:39:57 AM
Hard to see Messiah dropping out of top 10 given their schedule and reputation, but this is my guess a month into the season factoring in the 8 regions...   No shockers really as most are the traditional powers.

1) Wheaton
2) Oneonta St.
3) OWU
4) Trinity
5) F&M
6) Loras
7) Amherst
8) Rutgers-Camden

I could see Williams being ranked #1 in NE region, Montclair #1 in South Atlantic, St. Lawrence #1 in the East, Kenyon #1 in Central, and of course Messiah #1 in Mid-Atlantic.

I'd drop Amherst out of the top 8.  They tied 3 of their last 4 games is conf and national tourny's.  They could not create separation from above average teams.  So I would drop them out and place Messiah in the top 8.  The only other question mark I see in your list is Rutgers-Camden.  Not sure they'll have it after they struggled last season with 8 losses and not winning their conf.


I put Rutgers-Camden that high because their schedule is not as strong as previous years and they should be competing for the #1 slot in the South-Atlantic region.  They play Salisbury the 3rd game of the season and Christopher Newport at home the 5th game, so early positive results would increase their chances for that ranking.

Mr.Right

Quote from: Flying Weasel on June 28, 2015, 07:53:10 AM
Oneonta State's schedule: http://www.oneontaathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc&

Besides SUNYAC rivals like Cortland St., Brockport St., Plattsburg St., etc., their non-conference slate is very solid, and all the more so given they have to go on the road for all their toughest opponents:
A - Montclair St. (17-5-0) - NJAC Champs, NCAA 1st Rnd loss
A - Williams (8-6-2) - NESCAC
A - RPI (12-4-3) - Liberty League 2nd Place
A - Morrisville St. (16-3-1) - NEAC Champs, NCAA 2nd Rnd (1-0 loss at Messiah)
A - Lycoming (15-3-3) - Commonwealth 2nd Place
A - Vassar (11-6-2) - Liberty League 3rd Place

They will only be at home for two games (their own Mayor's Cup tournament) in September, hitting the road for seven games.  That's followed by six straight home games in three weeks (mostly SUNYAC games) to open October, closing out the regular season with two road SUNYAC games and a trip to Lycoming.  Interesting schedule.



This is a challenging schedule but not quite as challenging as Brandeis. Coach Byrne is always begging coaches to play hence all the road contests. Some coaches have a reputation of not shying away like Sullivan(Williams), Clinton(RPI) , Montclair and Vassar. RPI will play 10 men deep and try to counter on any chance they get. Most good teams would avoid this circumstance at all costs because they see enough of it in their own leagues. Surprisingly, this does not bother Byrne. I must say the SUNYAC is a bit weaker than it was 10 years ago as Plattsburg and Fredonia have dropped off considerably so he is confident he can win his league and therefore is unafraid to play anyone anywhere. Keene St used to do this quite often when they would dominate the Little East and would routinely play Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, WNEC, Babson,Wheaton, etc..

Flying Weasel

Seeing Ohio Northern's name show up on Babson's and Wheaton-MA's schedules over in the New England forum, made me curious to check the Polar Bear's full schedule.

Significant non-conference opponents:
9/5 (A) Wheaton-MA (17-4-2) - NEWMAC #1 seed; NCAA 2nd Rnd loss to Tufts
9/6 (A) Babson (17-6-0) - NEWMAC champs; NCAA 1st Rnd loss
9/12 (H) Brockport State (10-4-6) - SUNYAC 3rd Place; NCAA 1st Rnd loss
9/16 (H) Ohio Wesleyan (17-5-4) - NCAC #1 seed and champs; NCAA Final Four
9/19 (A) Case Western Reserve (8-6-4)

That's a very solid out-of-conference slate.  OAC play includes John Carroll who was good last year but got snubbed by the the NCAA committee.  Ohio Northern had an off year in 2014 and failed to win the OAC after 4 straight conference titles and 6 in previous 8 years.

PaulNewman

You beat me to this, FW.  I thought the same thing when I saw the Polar Bears could leave New England with two losses.  Will be interesting to see a perennial Great Lakes standout face off against two strong New England foes.  Ohio Northern handled Williams 3 years ago in the NCAA semis before getting crushed by Messiah in the final.  Would love to see more of these types of match-ups in the New England area.  Smart move by ONU in the sense that if they lose in the OAC tourney (usually a one bid league) they will still have a shot at a bid if they do well with that non-conference slate.

chelseafc30

With all the talk in this forum about recruiting classes, what exactly constitutes a strong recruiting class? Is it obtaining a certain number of USSDA players? Bringing in players from all over the country? Is it having a large class based on sheer numbers?

Obviously I realize that a strong class cannot be truly evaluated until the players are put on display during the season, but I'm just wondering how to pre-judge a recruiting class before any games have been played.