FB: American Southwest Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:08:10 AM

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ksclegal

Anyone heading to Whitewater ?
I've got airlines tickets but nothing else .

BSCpanthers

Quote from: jknezek on May 14, 2022, 10:10:41 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on May 14, 2022, 10:27:40 AM
Quote from: jknezek on May 13, 2022, 11:03:20 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on May 13, 2022, 09:25:09 PM
Why would you want to muddy the waters of D3 even further by bringing in more teams???

Because when you are on an island having more local schools simplifies everything.

You do realize that if a current team changes conference they are still available for out of conference games, right?  Moving conferences doesn't move your physical location.   ;D

You do realize that it's easier to schedule when you have more local partners? So you don't end up playing Arkansas Baptist...

Trust me, we are still dealing with that now that LaGrange backed out on us to go play a club team. 

When it may soon come down to conference champs only make the playoffs, why does it matter if you play OOC against UMHB and get beat?  Win your conference and you're in.

jknezek

Quote from: BSCpanthers on May 16, 2022, 10:48:33 AM
Quote from: jknezek on May 14, 2022, 10:10:41 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on May 14, 2022, 10:27:40 AM
Quote from: jknezek on May 13, 2022, 11:03:20 PM
Quote from: BSCpanthers on May 13, 2022, 09:25:09 PM
Why would you want to muddy the waters of D3 even further by bringing in more teams???

Because when you are on an island having more local schools simplifies everything.

You do realize that if a current team changes conference they are still available for out of conference games, right?  Moving conferences doesn't move your physical location.   ;D

You do realize that it's easier to schedule when you have more local partners? So you don't end up playing Arkansas Baptist...

Trust me, we are still dealing with that now that LaGrange backed out on us to go play a club team. 

When it may soon come down to conference champs only make the playoffs, why does it matter if you play OOC against UMHB and get beat?  Win your conference and you're in.

There are other considerations. If you lose 65-0 to UMHB and go 9-1 you tend to get a worse seed than if you go 10-0 and beat a mid-tier D3 team. Not always of course, a lot depends on other factors. But record against D3 opponents is a primary criteria.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on May 13, 2022, 05:50:22 PM
So, with the threat of a revived SCAC poaching a big chunk of the current ASC membership, is it possible the ASC would try to persuade some of the state's NAIA programs to make the switch to D3? Texas Wesleyan is probably a good fit for the ASC, and SAGU and Wayland Baptist could be interesting fits as well. Add in Texas College and the ASC could get all the way back to 10. Obviously, there are huge differences between D3 and the NAIA, and this whole conversation is probably premature, but I wonder if anybody is thinking about that as a potential solution to an anticipated SCAC raid.
Please provide a link to your source.

Thanks

CowboyAlum261

Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 16, 2022, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on May 13, 2022, 05:50:22 PM
So, with the threat of a revived SCAC poaching a big chunk of the current ASC membership, is it possible the  ASC would try to persuade some of the state's NAIA programs to make the switch to D3? Texas Wesleyan is probably a good fit for the ASC, and SAGU and Wayland Baptist could be interesting fits as well. Add in Texas College and the ASC could get all the way back to 10. Obviously, there are huge differences between D3 and the NAIA, and this whole conversation is probably premature, but I wonder if anybody is thinking about that as a potential solution to an anticipated SCAC raid.
Please provide a link to your source.

Thanks
I have no source—other than the speculation on this board (Pat included) that the recent change to give 6-team conferences automatic bids along with the Centenary news might make a resurgent 6-team SCAC a possibility. It's a compelling narrative, but at this point based on nothing more than the rampant speculation that tends to fill the offseason (when we have no actual football to talk about).

CowboyAlum261

Quote from: UMHB03 on May 14, 2022, 01:56:18 PM
Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on May 13, 2022, 05:50:22 PM
So, with the threat of a revived SCAC poaching a big chunk of the current ASC membership, is it possible the ASC would try to persuade some of the state's NAIA programs to make the switch to D3? Texas Wesleyan is probably a good fit for the ASC, and SAGU and Wayland Baptist could be interesting fits as well. Add in Texas College and the ASC could get all the way back to 10. Obviously, there are huge differences between D3 and the NAIA, and this whole conversation is probably premature, but I wonder if anybody is thinking about that as a potential solution to an anticipated SCAC raid.
Other than Texas Wesleyan, which is building a new stadium and has potential to be a solid program, I don't think any of the other NAIA programs in the region would do anything but water down the competition and weaken SOS.
I agree Wesleyan makes the most sense. And, as a DFW resident, it would be great to have a team so close. I have no idea what Wesleyan's institutional goals are, but I tend to think they'd fit in better in D3 and the ASC than in NAIA and the Sooner Athletic Conference.
Also, so much ASC talent comes from the DFW area, I would think the opportunity to have a conference game here every couple of years would be very attractive to the rest of the conference. However, all of this is obviously way above my pay grade—I'm just a prognosticator trying to kill time until the season starts!

Ralph Turner

When TWU re-classified from D2/NAIA dual membership in 2000, they stayed one year in the ASC and bolted to the NAIA.

Ron Boerger

While I have been one of the ones mentioning this as a possibility, I honestly don't think the SCAC has any interest in doing this.

(1) There are only five SCAC teams, when Centenary gets going, with football.
(2) Pretty sure the SCAC has beat the bushes for ASC teams in the recent past. 
(3) An 11th team in the SCAC from the ASC could complicate scheduling in some other sports.
(3) Trinity seems happy in the SAA and I've seen mentions of the travel as a positive on social media (maybe not for other sports, LOL)
(4) Schools have varying commitments to their current affiliate conferences.
(5) There would be a two-year waiting period before the conference would earn a bid.

Now, watch St. Thomas announce football as a new program tomorrow, but IMO the most likely thing that happens is Centenary affiliating with the ASC. 

Riley Zayas

Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on May 13, 2022, 05:50:22 PM
So, with the threat of a revived SCAC poaching a big chunk of the current ASC membership, is it possible the ASC would try to persuade some of the state's NAIA programs to make the switch to D3? Texas Wesleyan is probably a good fit for the ASC, and SAGU and Wayland Baptist could be interesting fits as well. Add in Texas College and the ASC could get all the way back to 10. Obviously, there are huge differences between D3 and the NAIA, and this whole conversation is probably premature, but I wonder if anybody is thinking about that as a potential solution to an anticipated SCAC raid.

The only problem is that a huge part of SAGU, Texas Wesleyan, and other NAIA programs' recruiting pitches is the scholarships. NAIA has scholarships, D3 doesn't obviously, so those programs would now be forced to recruit in a completely different way if they move to D3. Plus, costs are different and recruiting policies in the NCAA and NAIA are also different. And to do all that to play in a conference where the battle is for 3rd place? Seems like a lot to ask unless there is a huge revenue jump
Proverbs 21:31. D3hoops.com WBB Top 25 voter. On the UMHB beat as the managing editor of TrueToTheCru.com, covering everything in CRU athletics. Read my blog, The Scoop on D3 Women's Hoops. Find it on the D3hoops.com Daily Dose.

UMHB03

Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 17, 2022, 02:04:41 PM
IMO the most likely thing that happens is Centenary affiliating with the ASC.
This, and Lyon is also a possibility when they move over from NAIA.
2016, 2018, and 2021 D3 Football National Champions

Pat Coleman

Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 17, 2022, 02:04:41 PM
While I have been one of the ones mentioning this as a possibility, I honestly don't think the SCAC has any interest in doing this.

(1) There are only five SCAC teams, when Centenary gets going, with football.
(2) Pretty sure the SCAC has beat the bushes for ASC teams in the recent past. 
(3) An 11th team in the SCAC from the ASC could complicate scheduling in some other sports.
(3) Trinity seems happy in the SAA and I've seen mentions of the travel as a positive on social media (maybe not for other sports, LOL)
(4) Schools have varying commitments to their current affiliate conferences.
(5) There would be a two-year waiting period before the conference would earn a bid.

Now, watch St. Thomas announce football as a new program tomorrow, but IMO the most likely thing that happens is Centenary affiliating with the ASC.

If the SCAC has six full conference members with football, there is no waiting period. If it uses affiliate members to reach six, then yes, it would have that two-year waiting period.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

crufootball

Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2022, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 17, 2022, 02:04:41 PM
While I have been one of the ones mentioning this as a possibility, I honestly don't think the SCAC has any interest in doing this.

(1) There are only five SCAC teams, when Centenary gets going, with football.
(2) Pretty sure the SCAC has beat the bushes for ASC teams in the recent past. 
(3) An 11th team in the SCAC from the ASC could complicate scheduling in some other sports.
(3) Trinity seems happy in the SAA and I've seen mentions of the travel as a positive on social media (maybe not for other sports, LOL)
(4) Schools have varying commitments to their current affiliate conferences.
(5) There would be a two-year waiting period before the conference would earn a bid.

Now, watch St. Thomas announce football as a new program tomorrow, but IMO the most likely thing that happens is Centenary affiliating with the ASC.

If the SCAC has six full conference members with football, there is no waiting period. If it uses affiliate members to reach six, then yes, it would have that two-year waiting period.

Plus seemingly the threat of this happening in the SCAC is just as big as the possibility of the D3 changing course slightly and saying that in football or any other sport there AQ number is going to be different than 6.

TLU02SA

Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 17, 2022, 02:04:41 PM
While I have been one of the ones mentioning this as a possibility, I honestly don't think the SCAC has any interest in doing this.

(1) There are only five SCAC teams, when Centenary gets going, with football.
(2) Pretty sure the SCAC has beat the bushes for ASC teams in the recent past. 
(3) An 11th team in the SCAC from the ASC could complicate scheduling in some other sports.
(3) Trinity seems happy in the SAA and I've seen mentions of the travel as a positive on social media (maybe not for other sports, LOL)
(4) Schools have varying commitments to their current affiliate conferences.
(5) There would be a two-year waiting period before the conference would earn a bid.

Now, watch St. Thomas announce football as a new program tomorrow, but IMO the most likely thing that happens is Centenary affiliating with the ASC.

Why wouldn't the SCAC have interest in adding another member who plays football?  Every incentive is there.  To address each of your points:

(1) Yes but one more means a sixth member and an AQ;
(2) You are probably right but that was when conferences needed 7 members for AQs and SCAC only had 4 football playing schools.  With the AQ at 6, 5 football playing members, and UMHB dominating the ASC for a long time now, a school may look at the SCAC differently;
(3) There are only 9 schools in the SCAC (Johnson & Wales NLE) so another member to round the number to 10 makes sense;
(4) I guess Trinity likes the travel but I don't know one way or the other on this.  That said, nothing stops Trinity from scheduling SAA schools or other non-Texas opponents in the future if it still wants to travel.
(5) varying commitments but these affiliations are always flexible;
(6) As already mentioned, no two-year waiting period if the sixth football school is a full member of the SCAC.

I guess the rules can change and make 7 the number for AQs but why is everyone on this board so certain that will happen?  The change to 6 occurred just a few months ago.  It has not even been implemented yet.  To assume enough D3 conferences/schools have changed their position in just a few months seems ill-conceived to me.

I also don't understand the fear about the SCAC having an AQ.  I keep seeing comments that there are not enough schools in the area to fill out a non-conference schedule.  That is not true.  No DIII school in Texas or surrounding states stopped playing football recently and no school has physically moved its campus elsewhere.  With Centenary, there is one additional school in the area.  With Lyons, that will be a second additional school in the region. 

If the SCAC has 6 teams and an AQ, I am certain that the ASC and SCAC schools will continue to schedule each other like they do in all other sports.  Just as an example, UMHB and TLU face each other in every team sport every season. It would certainly extend to football.

Ralph Turner

Lyons maybe looking at the ASC, and vice versa, but travel distances for Lyons to the teams in the SLIAC.

Lyons to St Louis -- a 4 hour drive.
Lyons to Marshall TX - a 5 hour drive.
Lyons to Dallas --  a 6 hour drive.  Add 2 more hours to UMHB, 3 more hours to Abilene and Brownwood, and 7 more hours to Alpine.

Pat Coleman

But SLIAC football on its own, not enough for an AQ.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.