Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3910435 times)

Offline LochNescac

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19275 on: June 02, 2022, 12:00:05 am »
Sounds like "Parity" will be the keyword this coming season & maybe for the next several...!?!?

In the insightful words of the great Lloyd Christmas;  "So You're Telling Me There's a Chance..."


Offline The Mole

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 284
  • Karma: 40
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19276 on: June 02, 2022, 06:57:03 am »
Parity implies equal and the results over time show anything but that. However, the top to bottom competitive balance in the league has improved. The teams traditionally at the bottom have had closer games and have gotten a handful of upsets here and there. More of that should continue, but is is very hard to break into the top tier.

Take Wesleyan, they have improved considerably (thanks to the Whale) over the last 10 years or so. And they have one shared title and two runner ups. This could be the year, but they have yet to truly break through. Colby, with all the facility upgrades, etc. has yet to be more than a second place finisher since 2005. Tufts also improved yet just one bridesmaid finish (2016) under Civetti. Trinity has LOST less games then Bates has won since 1992 (48 to 53). Hamilton has had a losing season every year since 1998 with half a dozen coaches. Bowdoin has improved under Hammer on the field but the end results are the same.

There are cycles but you can never count out Trinity and Williams. Amherst and Middlebury might be down a bit now, but are consistently good programs.  Wesleyan, Tufts and Colby keep it interesting and Bates Bowdoin and Hamilton consistently pull up the caboose.

Everyone is optimistic and the level of play is as good as it ever has been--maybe this is the year we see a different champ....

Sounds like "Parity" will be the keyword this coming season & maybe for the next several...!?!?

In the insightful words of the great Lloyd Christmas;  "So You're Telling Me There's a Chance..."
TAKE THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED

Offline The Mole

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 284
  • Karma: 40
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19277 on: June 02, 2022, 07:05:39 am »
RECORDS SINCE 1992

Trinity 188-48
Williams 169-65-2
Amherst 165-70-1
Middlebury 147-89
Wesleyan 130-106
Colby 104-131-1
Tufts 98-137-1
Bowdoin 62-173-1
Hamilton 61-175
Bates 53-183
TAKE THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED

Offline LochNescac

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19278 on: June 02, 2022, 09:05:56 am »
Mole + Facts = Buzzkill....

In the face of historical stats; here's to small point spreads, exciting finishes, & unexpected upsets! 

(I'm joking about the point spreads... ;))

Offline Charlie

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: -18
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19279 on: June 02, 2022, 09:14:33 am »
Parity implies equal and the results over time show anything but that. However, the top to bottom competitive balance in the league has improved. The teams traditionally at the bottom have had closer games and have gotten a handful of upsets here and there. More of that should continue, but is is very hard to break into the top tier.

Take Wesleyan, they have improved considerably (thanks to the Whale) over the last 10 years or so. And they have one shared title and two runner ups. This could be the year, but they have yet to truly break through. Colby, with all the facility upgrades, etc. has yet to be more than a second place finisher since 2005. Tufts also improved yet just one bridesmaid finish (2016) under Civetti. Trinity has LOST less games then Bates has won since 1992 (48 to 53). Hamilton has had a losing season every year since 1998 with half a dozen coaches. Bowdoin has improved under Hammer on the field but the end results are the same.

There are cycles but you can never count out Trinity and Williams. Amherst and Middlebury might be down a bit now, but are consistently good programs.  Wesleyan, Tufts and Colby keep it interesting and Bates Bowdoin and Hamilton consistently pull up the caboose.

Everyone is optimistic and the level of play is as good as it ever has been--maybe this is the year we see a different champ....

Sounds like "Parity" will be the keyword this coming season & maybe for the next several...!?!?

In the insightful words of the great Lloyd Christmas;  "So You're Telling Me There's a Chance..."

I believe you won't see different champ but would not be the least bit surprised if Amherst drops to a bottom tier program fast. I believe it will be replaced with a Middlebury , Bates possibly a Colby as a mid tier team. I just think Tufts needs new direction at the HC spot. Way too many question marks there. In addition no one knows how these new acceptance rate numbers will play into the subsequent recruiting classes. But you are right there will definitely be jockeying at the mid level spots.

Offline nescac1

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5792
  • Karma: 745
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19280 on: June 02, 2022, 10:09:11 am »
There is no way that Amherst is ever going to be anything worse than a top half of NESCAC program consistently.  Amherst has great facilities, a great head coach, a great football tradition, limitless financial resources, and, along with Williams, it generally is going to be among the top choices among NESCAC schools for most of the guys it can get through admissions (a few will choose Tufts or Wesleyan, but generally speaking, Amherst and Williams are not losing a ton of recruits they offer to other NESCAC schools; Trinity is mostly recruiting from a different pool, but could also be more appealing to recruits when there is overlap).  When Amherst had one REALLY down period in the early 1990s, the school felt the pressure and let in two absolutely loaded classes in a row (classes of 1997 and 1998) for an immediate turnaround.  Otherwise, Amherst has been mediocre at worst and much better than mediocre ever year for decades now, and if it ever has a truly bad year, you can bet that it will once again correct the ship quickly with just a few tweaks to recruiting practices.  And I really can't imagine that an Amherst alum (married to an Amherst alum) who spent his entire career at D3 sports power Emory is going to be MORE hostile to football than his predecessor was (to the extent she was hostile at all, which I didn't really see).  Certainly, he's going to be VERY tied in to the Amherst alumni network ...

If you start seeing football recruits choose Bates, Colby, Bowdoin, Hamilton, heck even Midd, over Amherst, you can say that it is starting to fall.  But unless Amherst eliminates TIPS for football (no signs that it ever will) or there is some sign that it's become unappealing for top recruits (there isn't), it's going to be in the top 3-4 in NESCAC most years.  I doubt there will be many more back to back undefeated years like Amherst had during the Kelton years, that was an artificial peak enabled by Williams' total and rapid collapse, but I also expect you will rarely see Amherst teams below .500. 

Online lumbercat

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • Karma: 205
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19281 on: June 02, 2022, 08:20:55 pm »
I say all these unfounded rumors that Amherst has changed their recruiting, admissions guidelines and flexibility is total nonsense along with the rumor from some guy in left field that the Jeffs could drop football.

If anybody has any reliable information about these rumors at Amherst --please come forward.

Gotta love the stupid, juvenile prank like interchanges that go on forever between the 2 most prestigious small colleges in the country.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2022, 09:44:15 am by lumbercat »

Offline amh63

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5316
  • Karma: 3
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19282 on: June 03, 2022, 02:49:03 pm »
Some interesting thoughts/comments wrt Amherst Football…and the direction of it’s football program.  Random historic comments related to Amherst’s football from an alum.  Amherst had a terrible football coach in the past…an Amherst alum.  He was “fired” after a year.  New HC/crew arrived…present Amherst HC was part of that “crew”.  When the present Amherst prez arrived…soon to depart…she wanted funds for the present Amherst football complex to “be in hand” before approval.  Major donors followed….including the parent of an incoming football recruit…name attached to stadium…a Wash. DC resident.
It should be noted that the two Nescac schools with the biggest Endownments…Williams and Amherst…both give high priority to sports.  Their first college baseball game in Pittsfield,Ma. The first college athletic dept./program at Amherst.  Like at Harvard, I had to pass a swimming test my freshman year.  That comment based on the requirement at Harvard….my older brother has several degrees from Harvard.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 09:31:05 am by amh63 »

Offline oxen1999

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19283 on: June 22, 2022, 03:53:44 pm »
Hamilton College has brought in a new Offensive Coordinator, Kevin Spencer. He got his start at Wesleyan and spent much of the last 25+ years as an NFL assistant.

Online lumbercat

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • Karma: 205
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19284 on: June 23, 2022, 08:52:06 am »
Great hire for a NESCAC program. Very impressive resume at the highest level.

Offline amh63

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5316
  • Karma: 3
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19285 on: June 23, 2022, 11:52:00 am »
Something interesting to me….found on the Hamilton website…when I followed up wrt the new Hamilton football coach hire.  Hamilton has started it’s CAPITAL campaign…as Bates and Amherst closes out theirs’.  I find such efforts most revealing wrt the direction a college is heading.

Offline jumpshot

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 599
  • Karma: -333
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19286 on: June 23, 2022, 04:14:56 pm »
The reality is that NESCAC schools are continuously in a capital campaign (silent phase, major gifts, etc.). There is currently intense pressure on amHerst to follow Williams's lead in converting all financial aid into grants, which the mammoths will undoubtedly do.  Dartmouth announced a slightly modified action earlier this week. A few other small liberal arts colleges will also follow for competitive factors, as well as to enhance culture.

Offline CC_Camels

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19287 on: June 23, 2022, 11:23:48 pm »
Biddy finishes her career at Amherst, Clayton Rose announces that he is stepping down at Bowdoin, and now Clayton Spencer announces that next year will be her last at Bates.

https://www.bates.edu/news/2022/06/22/bates-college-president-clayton-spencer-step-down-june-30-2023/

Any thoughts on what these departures might mean for the FB programs?

Online lumbercat

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • Karma: 205
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19288 on: June 24, 2022, 09:29:45 am »
I believe the departure of Clayton Spencer at Bates will be a strong positive for Football and all Athletics at Bates. She restructured the program at Bates to a process where the AD does not report to the President resulting in a loss of autonomy and control within the athletic department. It's not conducive to Athletics when the AD reports to the Bates Dean of Student Life Joshua McIntosh. To my knowledge, McIntosh is a ghost in terms of his presence within the Athletic Program at Bates. Most will attest he's never been seen at a Bates Football game or any other sport for that matter yet he is essentially managing the Bates Athletic Program.
Hopefully the new President will restructure things so the AD reports directly to the President as is the case at most NESCAC schools.

Offline jmcozenlaw

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1232
  • Karma: -192
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #19289 on: June 24, 2022, 10:42:59 am »
I believe the departure of Clayton Spencer at Bates will be a strong positive for Football and all Athletics at Bates. She restructured the program at Bates to a process where the AD does not report to the President resulting in a loss of autonomy and control within the athletic department. It's not conducive to Athletics when the AD reports to the Bates Dean of Student Life Joshua McIntosh. To my knowledge, McIntosh is a ghost in terms of his presence within the Athletic Program at Bates. Most will attest he's never been seen at a Bates Football game or any other sport for that matter yet he is essentially managing the Bates Athletic Program.
Hopefully the new President will restructure things so the AD reports directly to the President as is the case at most NESCAC schools.

Not being a wise guy here, but is that more of a NESCAC (or similar conferences.........including the Ivy and Patriot) thing? I've been to MAC, CC and NJAC games and see the President and a bunch of other staff at many games. I know many as a result of the work I do. I've actually been to a few MAC games in Doylestown and Wilkes-Barre where the President and Dean of Students waits for the team to depart the field after the game and high fives the players as they depart. I happen to LOVE that type of interaction and school spirit.........while others might suggest that's "beneath" the President and his/her staff. To those I say.........you couldn't be more wrong!!