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Division III football (Post Patterns) => Region 1 football (New England-ish) => Topic started by: pg04 on November 10, 2006, 11:00:19 PM

Title: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 10, 2006, 11:00:19 PM
Well, it is almost that time of year and I noticed that the South and West already have a topic for the playoffs so I thought I'd add one.   Pat, if this is too early or not relevant yet please delete.

Anyway, even before the Playoffs begin, how do people see things shaking out?

Once the playoff seedings are picked, this may be a centralized place for people to go to discuss the matchups, rather than jumping back and forth between conferences.

Here are the teams that, at the time of writing this, are the possible candidates for the east regions (These are NOT seedings):

Locks:

1.  Wilkes --- Likely #1 seed, still has to face King's puts that in jeopardy.  However, they are the Pool A team from the MAC.
2.  Rowan --- Clinched the NJAC, are a Pool A qualifier.
3.  Union --- Clinched the LL, are a Pool A qualifier.  Seeding depends on who will hold the Shoes after tomorrow...
4.  Curry/Coast Guard --- The winner of the NEFC champ will get a Pool A Bid.

Virtual Lock:

1.  Springfield:  Likely to clinch the Pool A bid in the E8 against Norwich Tomorrow.

Pool C Candidates that will likely get in if they win:

1. St. John Fisher:  Probably the strongest of the candidates to this point, Must beat Alfred to get Pool C Bid, still an outside shot at the Pool A bid.
2. Hobart:  With a win vs.  U of R, will likely get a Pool C Bid.
3. Cortland:  Cortaca Jug game will determine their fate!

Pool C candidates that need help:

1. Alfred --  Needs to beat Fisher, and have a slew of other things to happen to get a look.
2.  U of R -- Needs to Beat Hobart, then have a miracle
3. Ithaca -- Needs to Win the Cortaca Jug, then steal some of U of R's Miracle

Out of Region Teams:

1.  Dickinson:  In the case that any of the Pool C locks slip up, the winner of the CC may be shipped in.
2.  Wesley:  An outside shot that if Wilkes were to lose, Wesley would be moved in as a Number 1 seed.... I have been told this is very unlikely, but who knows 


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 11, 2006, 12:10:09 AM
I'd love to see a first round  game between Union and Rowan....would be sweet revenge for the Dutchmen as I think they would handle Rowan and pay 'em back for last year's loss.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 01:36:10 PM
Important East Region Scores to this point:

Ithaca 17 Cortland 20 4th Quarter
Union 9 RPI 17 HALF
Hobart 21 UR 21 HALF
Springfield 15 Norwich 0 HALF
SJF 27 Alfred 10 HALF
Curry 34 Coast Guard 21 4th
Wilkes 21 King's 7 4th

Things pretty much holding to form.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 11, 2006, 01:41:45 PM
AU 10 SJF 7
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 01:42:43 PM
I think i'm just going to keep modifying my post with all the updates I see from around the boards, I'm assuming fisher and Alf in the 2nd q?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 11, 2006, 02:17:18 PM
SJF 27 AU 10 at half

Robinson has 135 yrds and 2 TD''s
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers on November 11, 2006, 02:24:21 PM
C'mon UR
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 02:43:28 PM
Any score from wilkes?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 02:44:25 PM
Wilkes up 21-7
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 02:45:43 PM
time?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 02:46:06 PM
oops 7:00 in 4th
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 02:47:53 PM
]
Important East Region Scores to this point:

Ithaca 20 Cortland 23 FINAL/OT
Union 12 RPI 17 3rd
Hobart 24 UR 21 3RD
Springfield 35 Norwich 0 4th
SJF 27 Alfred 17 3rd
Curry 34 Coast Guard 28 FINAL
Wilkes 21 King's 7 4th

Things pretty much holding to form.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 02:50:16 PM
Could SC see union a gain first round? no because they already played correct?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 11, 2006, 03:00:19 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 02:50:16 PM
Could SC see union a gain first round? no because they already played correct?

exactly - sc would more likely see hobart or maybe dickinson - depending on how things shake out. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 03:04:27 PM
Thank you.... and Thank goodness.. Union is a monster
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 03:18:58 PM
Important East Region Scores to this point:

Ithaca 20 Cortland 23 FINAL/OT
Union 19 RPI 24 FINAL
Hobart 31 UR 21 FINAL
Springfield 35 Norwich 0 FINAL
SJF 41 Alfred 17 4th
Curry 34 Coast Guard 28 FINAL
Wilkes 28 King's 7 FINAL

Cortland Wins in OT and is most likely a Pool C team.
Curry wins the NEFC and gets a Pool A Bid. 
Springfield gets the Pool A bid.
Hobart most likely a Pool C team.
Wilkes wins the Pool A Bid.
Union will go on the road after the loss. 

Any thoughts on the seeding now?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 11, 2006, 03:42:59 PM
Bart looking good with a 10 pt lead with 1:23 left.  Rocho down to last TO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 04:08:56 PM

Important East Region Scores to this point:

Ithaca 20 Cortland 23 FINAL/OT
Union 19 RPI 24 FINAL
Hobart 31 UR 21 FINAL
Springfield 35 Norwich 0 FINAL
SJF 41 Alfred 13 FINAL
Curry 34 Coast Guard 28 FINAL
Wilkes 28 King's 7 FINAL

Cortland Wins in OT and is most likely a Pool C team.
Curry wins the NEFC and gets a Pool A Bid. 
Springfield gets the Pool A bid.
Hobart most likely a Pool C team.
Wilkes wins the Pool A Bid.
Union will go on the road after the loss. 

Any thoughts on the seeding now?

Here is how I see it:

1) Wilkes
2) SC
3) SJF
4) Rowan
5) Hobart
6) Cortland
7) Union
8) Curry
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattyt02 on November 11, 2006, 04:10:28 PM
Not knowing much, I'd say:

1. Wilkes
2. SC
3. Cortland
4. Rowan
5. SJF
6. Union
7. Hobart
8. Curry
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 11, 2006, 04:13:15 PM
they won't put Rowan ahead of Fisher and they will almost definatly not put Cortland ahead of fisher
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 04:28:59 PM
Any thoughts on dickinson coming to the east now?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 11, 2006, 04:34:31 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 11, 2006, 04:08:56 PM

Important East Region Scores to this point:

Ithaca 20 Cortland 23 FINAL/OT
Union 19 RPI 24 FINAL
Hobart 31 UR 21 FINAL
Springfield 35 Norwich 0 FINAL
SJF 41 Alfred 13 FINAL
Curry 34 Coast Guard 28 FINAL
Wilkes 28 King's 7 FINAL

Cortland Wins in OT and is most likely a Pool C team.
Curry wins the NEFC and gets a Pool A Bid. 
Springfield gets the Pool A bid.
Hobart most likely a Pool C team.
Wilkes wins the Pool A Bid.
Union will go on the road after the loss. 

Any thoughts on the seeding now?

Here is how I see it:

1) Wilkes
2) SC
3) SJF
4) Rowan
5) Hobart
6) Cortland
7) Union
8) Curry

SJF-PRIDE second rd rematch?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 04:36:30 PM
gotta worry bout the first round...sjf you might pull cortland, maybe rowan...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 04:36:30 PM
gotta worry bout the first round...sjf you might pull cortland, maybe rowan...

In my opinion 4-7 are really hard to order.  Rowan does have to be ahead of Cortland in my opinion, but that's all I can really see....Union with 2 losses is why I put them all the way down to 7, but if they wanted to avoid that first round matchup (but they don't have to) is have Union go to Wilkes and Curry go to SC
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 11, 2006, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 04:36:30 PM
gotta worry bout the first round...sjf you might pull cortland, maybe rowan...

yeh, just wishful thinkin at this point....just glad to be even having this conversation right now after the way last season ended...

What a tough draw though....most likely will be Cortland or Hobart as I see it ...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 04:44:59 PM
Another interesting thing that is happening....Bethel is beating St. John's 28-13 with time running out, thus giving Bethel the Pool A bid, and will force St. John's to take a C... if that's the case, will Hobart, Cortland, or Fisher be left out??? Going to be interesting times....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
Strike that, St. John's lost...  If one of the three teams, Hobart, Cortland, or Fisher, had to be left out, which one would it be??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 11, 2006, 04:47:33 PM
Who are the pool C contenders? Do u have a list?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2006, 04:51:24 PM
On the front page you'll see a link for playoff projections that D3football.com did this past week. Check there for more playoff info.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 04:52:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2006, 04:51:24 PM
On the front page you'll see a link for playoff projections that D3football.com did this past week. Check there for more playoff info.

Thanks Pat, beat me out there.... Also, on the General football board there is a discussion named "Pool C--2006" that lists them 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 04:56:08 PM
Pat,

Does the committee know enough about what is going on to leave out a team (such as cortland) because they know they are playing with a 4th string QB? (I know they won today with him, but can they be competitive in playoffs?  ) --- I know in D1 Bball sometimes teams on bubbles are left out for reasons such as that, but I'm not sure if they'd do such a thing in D3 Football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 11, 2006, 05:14:12 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 11, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
Strike that, St. John's lost...  If one of the three teams, Hobart, Cortland, or Fisher, had to be left out, which one would it be??

Well, assuming that the committee is using the criteria of winning percentage within region as a primary measurement, I'd say that Hobart gets left out since they played fewer games and thus their 1 loss with leave them with a lower percentage than Fisher or Cortland.  I think that all three of those teams deserve to be in, but who really knows what the committee will decide.  I'd prefer Cortland though since then us Alfred fans could say we only lost to playoff teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 11, 2006, 05:22:59 PM
man dvc's loss to susquehanna really gets me.....this was a year there is not 1 dominant team and dvc could of really had a chance....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 11, 2006, 08:34:00 PM
Interesting scenarios now in the east....

My projection...

1) Wilkes vs 8.) Curry

4) Rowan vs 5) Union


2) Springfield vs 7) Cortland Hobart

3) St. John Fisher vs 6) Dickinson




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 11, 2006, 09:14:55 PM
Incidentally Cortland may be on the bubble now.

They are ranked below SJF and Hobart coming into this week, so that could remain the same.

Capital will have a higher ranking in the North.  Wheaton (Ill.) may, too.

HSU will in the South.  Perhaps Lax does in the West.

So you've got three teams -- Cortland, Franklin and SJU -- for one bid.

SJU losing mucks things up for the Red Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2006, 11:21:26 PM
I think Cortland may also be left out not only because of the QOWI but the fact their QBs are injured.  I asked this before and didn't get an answer, but does the fact they are down to their 4th QB mean something in the selection process?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: profs_fan on November 11, 2006, 11:35:10 PM
Allstater:

I liked the brackets you posted.  I would very much like to play Union at home and Wilks away. Would not be alot of driving for me and the Prof fans.

Rowan's execution on Friday night was the best all season.  The play calling opened the game up.  Mike O's leadership and passing ability with his freshmen receiver's finally clicked.  

Rowan has several Super Backs that rotate in and out. Same with receivers.
The Prof's don't miss a beat regardless who is on the field or off the field.

I've been a Prof's fan for 20+ years.  IMHO the program is in better shape now then ever before.    

IMHO the coaching staff is building a "TEAM' with quality freshman and student players of good character.  

Most of the games this year the Prof's won ugly.  I hope the playoff team 't that shows up this Saturday is the same team that showed up against William Patterson.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: met_fan on November 11, 2006, 11:59:03 PM
The fact that Cortland's QBs are hurt shouldn't have any bearing on whether they make the playoffs or not.  They should be judged by what they have done on the field, not what people expect them to do in the future because of injuries.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 12:09:39 AM
I think Cortland's on the bubble at best, and it has nothing to do with their injuries.

The Red Dragons were the East #7.  1-6 all won, leaving little likelihood for moving up.

Hobart (E-5)
St John Fisher (E-3)
Hardin-Simmons (S-4)
Wheaton (N-5)
Capital (N-3)
Franklin (N-6)
and UW LaCrosse (W-5)

All Won,
All are higher ranked in their regions than Cortland, and
All have a higer QOWI than Cortland.

That's not good news for the Red Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 12:10:48 AM
Quote from: met_fan on November 11, 2006, 11:59:03 PM
The fact that Cortland's QBs are hurt shouldn't have any bearing on whether they make the playoffs or not.  They should be judged by what they have done on the field, not what people expect them to do in the future because of injuries.

Correct....

However your QOWI and Regional Rankings are below another Pool C team from the East....

Good luck....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: met_fan on November 12, 2006, 12:14:10 AM
For the record, I have no affiliation with Cortland, and they may very well miss the playoffs.  My only point was that it won't be because their QBs are hurt.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 12:17:01 AM
Quote from: met_fan on November 12, 2006, 12:14:10 AM
For the record, I have no affiliation with Cortland, and they may very well miss the playoffs.  My only point was that it won't be because their QBs are hurt.

I know, I just wanted to make sure that wouldn't even be in the committee's mind when selecting...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 12:17:46 AM
Hobart has been the least impressive C team of the group.  They should be the bubble team.  The NJAC has been the top conference producer in the East due to Rowan's dominance.  I would be shocked if any of the other upstate schools could beat the Profs.  The LL is soft, their AQ should even be allowed in.
Taste It
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 12:17:46 AM
Hobart has been the least impressive C team of the group.  They should be the bubble team.  The NJAC has been the top conference producer in the East due to Rowan's dominance.  I would be shocked if any of the other upstate schools could beat the Profs.  The LL is soft, their AQ should even be allowed in.
Taste It

Blah, blah, blah....

So your in a conference with Rowan, big deal!

That justifies your selection over Hobart?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 12:29:04 AM
Thats actually how the pool C works Ding Dong.  The At Large is for the solid team who may be the runner up behind a stud squad.  Hence the NEFC getting overlooked year in and out when they are in a simialr boat.

Taste It
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 12:35:17 AM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 12:29:04 AM
Thats actually how the pool C works Ding Dong.  The At Large is for the solid team who may be the runner up behind a stud squad.  Hence the NEFC getting overlooked year in and out when they are in a simialr boat.

Taste It

"Ding Dong"

Classic....


Only going to respond to that by saying that your on the "Bubble" so good luck....

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 12:36:46 AM
well upstate so are we... I guess  but right now my plan is that I will try and get to the Fisher game where ever they are
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 12:41:21 AM
Ding dong the witch is dead ... which old which? The Cortland witch!.... or something like that
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 12:44:46 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 12, 2006, 12:36:46 AM
well upstate so are we... I guess  but right now my plan is that I will try and get to the Fisher game where ever they are

Not on the bubble...

Of the 9 pool C's SJF has the 2nd highest QOWI and is ranked third in their region going into today and has 2 wins vs Regionally Ranked teams....

While Cortland has the 2nd LOWEST QOWI is ranked 7th in the region and has one win vs a regionally ranked team....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 12:54:22 AM
'Twas the night before Selection Sunday, when all through the land

Not a creature was stirring, not even a cardnial



The bids were hung by the NCAA with care,

In hopes that St. John Fisher soon would get there's;



The teams were nestled all snug in their dorms,

While visions of the Stagg Bowl danced in their heads;

And Pat Coleman in his 'kerchief, and Keith McMillan in his cap,

Had just settled down for a long winter's nap,

When out on the message board there arose such a clatter,

I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.

Away to the window I flew like a flash,

Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.

The moon on the breast of the new-fallen sturf

Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below,

When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,



But a selection show, and 9 pool c teams,

With a little old driver, so lively and quick,

I knew in a moment it must be the NCAA.

More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,

And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, Fisher! now, Hobart! now, Cortland and Franklin!

On, Capital! on St. Johns! on, UW LaCrosse, on Hardin-Simmons and Wheaton!

To the top of the charts! to the top of the nation!




well I offically have no life, If anyone wants to try to parody the rest have fun
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:03:05 AM
The only problem is, while there were 9 reindeer with Santa that night (counting Rudolph), there are only SEVEN Pool C's.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:05:41 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:03:05 AM
The only problem is, while there were 9 reindeer with Santa that night (counting Rudolph), there are only SEVEN Pool C's.......

Well my brother just shot Prancer and Vixen (they're not gay or anything with names like that).....

So i guess its even now!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:05:41 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:03:05 AM
The only problem is, while there were 9 reindeer with Santa that night (counting Rudolph), there are only SEVEN Pool C's.......

Well my brother just shot Prancer and Vixen (they're not gay or anything with names like that).....

So i guess its even now!

You are posting at a torrid pace this evening!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 01:09:24 AM
well we'll find out tommorow who gets coal
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:05:41 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:03:05 AM
The only problem is, while there were 9 reindeer with Santa that night (counting Rudolph), there are only SEVEN Pool C's.......

Well my brother just shot Prancer and Vixen (they're not gay or anything with names like that).....

So i guess its even now!

You are posting at a torrid pace this evening!

Yep, im even in the Centenial Conference asking how Dickinson is....

They've got  a good shot at coming to the east....

Wouldnt mind beating up a CC team again....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:11:13 AM
And, upstater, like Prancer & Vixen, two of the 9 teams on the Pool C board are going to be shot.

I read the criteria that they may well be Cortland & St. John's....  Of course, it could be LaCrosse & Franklin....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 01:11:25 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:05:41 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:03:05 AM
The only problem is, while there were 9 reindeer with Santa that night (counting Rudolph), there are only SEVEN Pool C's.......

Well my brother just shot Prancer and Vixen (they're not gay or anything with names like that).....

So i guess its even now!

You are posting at a torrid pace this evening!

Yep, im even in the Centenial Conference asking how Dickinson is....

They've got  a good shot at coming to the east....

Wouldnt mind beating up a CC team again....

Just pray it isn't Wesley!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:11:57 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:11:13 AM
And, upstater, like Prancer & Vixen, two of the 9 teams on the Pool C board are going to be shot.

I read the criteria that they may well be Cortland & St. John's....  Of course, it could be LaCrosse & Franklin....

I doubt St. Johns gets left out....

just my opinion though...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:12:50 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:11:25 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:05:41 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:03:05 AM
The only problem is, while there were 9 reindeer with Santa that night (counting Rudolph), there are only SEVEN Pool C's.......

Well my brother just shot Prancer and Vixen (they're not gay or anything with names like that).....

So i guess its even now!

You are posting at a torrid pace this evening!

Yep, im even in the Centenial Conference asking how Dickinson is....

They've got  a good shot at coming to the east....

Wouldnt mind beating up a CC team again....

Just pray it isn't Wesley!

If Hobart and Cortland lost today I had Wesley coming up...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:12:55 AM
Wesley's not moving.

They are the #1 in the South.  Period.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 01:13:46 AM
Stranger things have happened, granted you are most likely correct, I want to throw that out there....

Anyone watching the USC Oregon game?  They have been at a review for 10 minutes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:14:34 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:13:46 AM
Stranger things have happened, granted you are most likely correct, I want to throw that out there....

Anyone watching the USC Oregon game?  They have been at a review for 10 minutes.

Yeah its sad....

It was a good grab though regardless of the decision....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:15:06 AM
BTW, stop posting....

Im trying to catch you!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 01:15:37 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2006, 01:14:34 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:13:46 AM
Stranger things have happened, granted you are most likely correct, I want to throw that out there....

Anyone watching the USC Oregon game?  They have been at a review for 10 minutes.

Yeah its sad....

It was a good grab though regardless of the decision....


Posing/posting whatever! lol.... This review system is absurd!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 01:16:09 AM
LOL!! REVERSAL OF THE REVERSAL!!! WOW!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:23:44 AM
Pats final projections....

Wilkes Bracket
1. Wilkes (A)
2. Springfield (A)
3. St. John Fisher (C)
4. Hobart (C)
5. Union (A)
6. Rowan (A)
7. Dickinson (A)
8. Curry (A)
Hobart and Union are conference rivals, who do not need to meet in the first round as long as the NCAA's "geographic proximity" is maintained. Curry plays at Wilkes, Dickinson at Springfield, Union at St. John Fisher and Rowan at Hobart. Dickinson moves over because ... alas ... we do not project Cortland State to be in the bracket. More on those decisions later.

Taste it!

I think pat meant to flip Rowan and Union though!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 01:25:11 AM
Nothing too shocking there. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 02:15:08 AM
I did not intend to flip Rowan and Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 12, 2006, 03:05:51 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 01:16:09 AM
LOL!! REVERSAL OF THE REVERSAL!!! WOW!

TGP was at said game and in Section 19 which is pretty much by the end zone.  Oregon's receiver was definitely out of bounds then came back in.  TGP's bets NCAA will over rule that TD giving SC a 35-3 win tonight.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 10:44:57 AM
for QOWI, Cortland beating Ithaca must be better than Hobart beating Rochester.  With Union's loss, Cortland will probably take the number one spot in the Upstate NY Rankings and get hosed on the NCAA selection.
Tatses Bad
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 12:32:34 PM
heres the deal.........rowan is good........people are underestimating them.........second of all if cortland gets left out it would be a shame......without doing any research i have to think they would be one of the best teams to ever get left out.....the 2004 ic team was real good........similiar season 1 OT loss on the road.....that was fishers coming out party compared to cortland one road loss in OT to rowan which is the defending national semifinalists and had a shot at the title if we didnt knock their QB out..........as for hobart most likell beating us out for the last spot?? i believe that cortland is the better team but i refuse to bash hobart........as for hobart beating us last year? that means nothing...these are the 2006 playoffs......last years win has just as little to do as cortland steamrolling them in their scrimmage this year.......both mean nothing........i think it will just be a shame if cortland gets left out
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 12:37:05 PM
If it comes down to St. John's and Cortland (And I know everyone has said over and over again that history doesn't matter but...), I would think that the overall history of St. John's would get in over them, unfortunately....

But like I've said all the talking means nothing, the only things that will matter will occur on ESPNNEWS at 2PM EST.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 12:38:47 PM
st johns is getting in over cortland..........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 12:41:31 PM
Well then Cortland will not get in, it's been said that the last 3 teams for the one spot will probably be St. John's, Cortland, and Franklin. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 12:46:24 PM
someone explaing to me why its not 4 teams for 2 spots........including hobart and the bid they have been handed by the experts
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 12, 2006, 12:50:06 PM
Hobart was ranked in front of Cortland in the regional rankings this week.  Since they use the same criteria to make playoff selections, I don't think you want to be compared with Hobart.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 12:54:15 PM
anyone wanna explain why hobart is ranked ahead?...........like i said im not bashing them i just wanna know.........i would like to see both get in instead of someone from another region
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 12:56:26 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 12:54:15 PM
anyone wanna explain why hobart is ranked ahead?...........like i said im not bashing them i just wanna know.........i would like to see both get in instead of someone from another region

I have a really hard time believing that Hobart is better than Cortland.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2006, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 12:54:15 PM
anyone wanna explain why hobart is ranked ahead?...........like i said im not bashing them i just wanna know.........i would like to see both get in instead of someone from another region

My guess -- Hobart is 4th in the QoW index, even with one loss.  I'm not backing that analysis, but I'm just providing a rationale as to why things panned out on Pat's selections the way they did.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 01:02:12 PM
Congrats to Hobart, SJF, and all Pool C candidates on a great season, but with this scenario it sounds like some are sitting too pretty in such a grey area.  I don't want to be a Hate'r but when it all goes down, there must be people on the comittee that stray and use subjective thoughts over objective criteria.  I would rather get stomped than lose out on the post season in this manner.
Potentially Tasting Foul
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 01:05:00 PM
T Minus 57 minutes until this all gets laid to rest. 
Taste of Anticipation
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 01:05:28 PM
If cortland gets left out, I say Cortaca Take 2 in the ECAC's, anyone else with me on this
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 01:06:36 PM
ithaca declined to enter the ECAC's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:10:39 PM
One caution for Cortland fans,

You can't tout the "it was only an overtime loss" to Rowan, a team going to the tournament

and not have to accept "it was only an overtime win" over Ithaca, a team that isn't going to the dance, and one that's likely to not even be ranked in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 01:13:53 PM
Definately a double edged sword with the OT comment.  When its all done a win is a win is a win....and vice versa.
Taste the Anticipation
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 01:17:42 PM
mr gregg IC is a good team....the close loss and won arguement really shouldnt hold weight since a win is a win..........and especially this year since Hobart is getting in
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:21:01 PM
I understand your point, cstate.  A win IS a win, and a loss IS a loss.

"We're 9-1, and our ONLY loss was in overtime to Rowan.  We should get in the tournament because of THAT."  That's been a recurring mantra of some Red Dragon fans around the post patterns.

My point is that the Cortland fans are entitled to that theme, but must also endure the reprise of "You're 9-1, and one of those wins came IN OVERTIME against a team in-region that isn't even going to be ranked when all is said and done."

Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACchamp on November 12, 2006, 01:23:29 PM
so i take it that the DVC loss to susquehanna really killed any chance even with 3 straight shut outs?? is there anyway they get in or is it just a ECAC game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 01:24:36 PM
I think the problem is Ithaca not being regionally ranked when all was said and done. If Ithaca had beaten Alfred we'd have a different take on Cortland.

The thing is, Cortland had its destiny in its hands with the automatic bid right in front of them. When you don't pick up the automatic bid then it's all left to chance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 01:26:30 PM
pat, shouldn't you be in make-up
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:27:29 PM
Not enough time for that much makeup...

Just kidding, guru.

Have a great show!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACchamp on November 12, 2006, 01:29:08 PM
so who wins the East? im thinking Wilkes has a great chance
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 01:36:27 PM
Quote from: MACchamp on November 12, 2006, 01:29:08 PM
so who wins the East? im thinking Wilkes has a great chance

Fisher  8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 01:06:36 PM
ithaca declined to enter the ECAC's

Where did you hear that?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 01:06:36 PM
ithaca declined to enter the ECAC's

Where did you hear that?

I can't imagine they would do that ... Anyone have any facts to back this up?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 12, 2006, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 01:06:36 PM
ithaca declined to enter the ECAC's

Where did you hear that?

I can't imagine they would do that ... Anyone have any facts to back this up?

As I said on the Cortaca board, IC has yet to ever turn down an ECAC bid. I am awaiting confirmation though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 01:56:14 PM
IC has indeed turned down an ECAC bid before, and they have again this year.

Go from playing in front of 8,000 against a rival, to playing Coast Guard?  I believe the team made the decision before the Cortland game, it would be their Super Bowl, and the last hoorah.  Can't blame them one bit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 01:58:20 PM
Thanks Tecmo - Too bad they would do that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 01:58:28 PM
it was on IC's football page i believe............right now time warner is on instead of espnnews...someone please keep me updated if this doesnt work.........i know cortland controlled their own destiny............they blew their chance and now its not in their hands........but so did st johns
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 01:59:09 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 01:56:14 PM
IC has indeed turned down an ECAC bid before, and they have again this year.

Go from playing in front of 8,000 against a rival, to playing Coast Guard?  I believe the team made the decision before the Cortland game, it would be their Super Bowl, and the last hoorah.  Can't blame them one bit.

Tecmo-- What bid? I have it from a pretty knowledgable source that they haven't.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:01:49 PM
Max-

They turned one down in 2000, a year after they sleptwalked through a meaningless game against Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:04:30 PM
Here we go boys!  Pat looks good! lol
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:04:44 PM
i cant get the show........someone help me out.......please?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:05:32 PM
Here we go boys!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:05:50 PM
Wheaton and Capital in, 2 of the Pool Cs
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:07:27 PM
Rowan v. Hobart

Fisher v. Union

SP v. Curry

Wilkes v. Washington & Lee
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:07:33 PM
Wilkes the number 1 seed....

Washing ton and lee moves to the east....


Hobart host Rowan

St John Fisher hosts union
Springfield hosts Curry.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:08:46 PM
means cortland is out right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:09:40 PM
unless they are in the south for no real reason.... They went to commercial. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:10:01 PM
Think so - doubt they're moving
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Rolevio on November 12, 2006, 02:10:33 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 02:09:40 PM
unless they are in the south for no real reason.... They went to commercial. 

I doubt they would swap East and South teams (W&L and Cortland)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:10:47 PM
very dissapointed.........no knock on hobart but im predicting a huge huge rowan win.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:11:45 PM
So here we are time to begin discussing:

Washington and Lee at Wilkes
Curry at Springfield
Union at St. John Fisher
Rowan at Hobart

Time for discussion and predictions to begin!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:13:31 PM
Wesley the number 1 seed in north, hosts Dickenson...

A conference rival rematch, Hardin-SImmons vs. MHB in the first round!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:13:49 PM
i dont wanna talk about this now........ill be back later
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 02:14:24 PM
I heard it was Hobart at Rowan
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:15:01 PM
Rowan ends up with another soft draw this year. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:15:16 PM
Cortland is out - St. John's took it from them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:15:23 PM
I thought hobart was hosting? I might be wrong...maybe they'll go over it again.  

Wisconsin-Lacrosse and St. John's get the last two Pool Cs
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:16:01 PM
i hate st johns...........went from being a program i liked for their coach after the win to now absolutly hating them
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:17:22 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 12, 2006, 02:14:24 PM
I heard it was Hobart at Rowan

It is...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:17:57 PM
although i love the draw because im thinking everyone will see why cortland thinks they should have got in over hobart
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:20:01 PM
I was hoping Hobart would get sent a message for their lame nine game schedule.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:20:49 PM
Rowan may get "an easy draw" with hobart but it's not as easy as Curry or Washington and Lee...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:20:01 PM
I was hoping Hobart would get sent a message for their lame nine game schedule.

Eh, they will with the Rowan draw I'm thinking.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:22:40 PM
My remark meant that Rowan would likely play Hobart and Wilkes in the first two rounds.  They'd avoid Fisher, Springfield, and Union, until the East final, who I consider to be the best three teams in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:25:13 PM
For some unknown reason, the way the bracket was set up unsettles me a little bit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 02:25:13 PM
For some unknown reason, the way the bracket was set up unsettles me a little bit.

feels like its missing an awfully good team????? that the reason???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:28:21 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 02:25:13 PM
For some unknown reason, the way the bracket was set up unsettles me a little bit.

feels like its missing an awfully good team????? that the reason???

I agree... that's pretty terrible.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 02:28:55 PM
The bracket does look weird without Cortland in it... I wonder if what Port was saying about the 4th-string quarterback came into question.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:29:32 PM
Early lines:

Washington and Lee +6 at Wilkes  
Curry + 20.5 at Springfield
Union +5 at St. John Fisher
Hobart +7.5 at Rowan
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 12, 2006, 02:29:54 PM
The prophesy has come true and the Dragons were left out.  Its rough when the highest Nationally and State ranked team of the NY teams gets boned.  We will get our laugh when Rowan unloads next week.  Good luck to all those headed to the dance next week.
Taste It
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:30:16 PM
On the front page of this site, Pat tries to give some sort of explanation to the rationale behind the picks.... meaning that it went beyond numbers.....and to making just a decision based on feeling.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:29:32 PM
Early lines:

Washington and Lee +6 at Wilkes  
Curry + 20.5 at Springfield
Union +5 at St. John Fisher
Hobart +7.5 at Rowan

What's the scoop on curry?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:31:11 PM
I feel pretty bad for Cortland.

Certainly you could have made cases to dump St. Johns after getting blown out in the finale, or Hobart who was staggered through their nine game season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:31:45 PM
Curry is from the NEFC which has never won a playoff game, and has been historically terrible.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:32:06 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 12, 2006, 02:30:16 PM
On the front page of this site, Pat tries to give some sort of explanation to the rationale behind the picks.... meaning that it went beyond numbers.....and to making just a decision based on feeling.

So their gut feel tells them that Cortland shouldn't be in... Not buying that. That's a terrible decision.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 02:32:46 PM
No, but St. John's is a perennial playoff team and former National Champion...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:31:45 PM
Curry is from the NEFC which has never won a playoff game, and has been historically terrible.

Thanks Tecmo - sounds like SC will be advancing then

But then again in the playoffs you never know.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 02:38:46 PM
Time for the "who Max Power is rooting for" line:

Washington & Lee at Wilkes

Don't know much about either team, but I like good teams to win when they deserve it.

Hobart at Rowan

Hobart may not deserve to be in over Cortland, but I hate hate hate hate Rowan.

Union at St. John Fisher

Sorry guys, i just hate Fisher. Most of the fans I encountered (as well as some of the players) at that game where just a-holes, plain and simple. Hate Union too, but teams that beat my team.... I just want them to go down. No offense to FA91, Booby, Tags, Superman, or anyone else on here that I like.

Curry at Springfield

If I'm going to root for an E8 team, this is going to be it. Still get annoyed that such a one-dimensional team can be so good, but if SC's one loss on the way to a championship is IC, I'll feel pretty good about that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 02:45:03 PM
I think on a neutral field Union might win, but if the two teams are so even I think Fisher Squeaks it out do to the home crowd
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:47:12 PM
Unless Union plays with 13 guys on defense, they won't be able to stop Fisher's running game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:48:04 PM
heres a thought..........IC screws cortland over again with their loss to fisher
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 02:47:12 PM
Unless Union plays with 13 guys on defense, they won't be able to stop Fisher's running game.

And if they do play with 13 guys?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 12, 2006, 02:53:01 PM
Way to blow off Wilkes on the selection show, then again can you blame pat considering his history at Wilkes with basketball..... When it comes down to it, Wilkes has the advantage with its crowd and it will be in rare form this weekend. Its been 13 yrs since the last Home playoff game, and it wont be the last! I been saying it all year...


....BELIEVE....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 02:58:18 PM
Quote from: WUMAC on November 12, 2006, 02:53:01 PM
Way to blow off Wilkes on the selection show, then again can you blame pat considering his history at Wilkes with basketball..... When it comes down to it, Wilkes has the advantage with its crowd and it will be in rare form this weekend. Its been 13 yrs since the last Home playoff game, and it wont be the last! I been saying it all year...


....BELIEVE....

What??? ... Nobody got featured really. They noted that they took the #1 seed, etc...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 03:02:35 PM
What did we talk about, maybe seven of the 32 teams plus a couple that were left out? You guys got footage of Wilkes -- most people don't complain.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 03:03:57 PM
Just as my final little defense of IC and the ECACs....

Ithaca has never turned down an ECAC bid it has been offered, but it has (as it did this year) withdrawn its name from consideration before the deadline. This is not the same as Rowan, who has a school-policy of not participating, which was the whole reason this was brought up in the first place. ECACs cost a lot of money for schools to participate in, so for that reason I can see why IC did, and for the reasons Tecmo mentioned. I'm still disappointed that IC's season is really over. Of course, since Huntingdon doesn't count for our regional record, a 6-3 team might not even get a bid.

But the main point is that Ithaca does NOT "look down" on the ECAC's. That's an unfair accusation. In the last 10-15 years or so we've played in SIX ECAC games, one of which I worked at. I think Tecmo's reasoning, about Cortaca being our last hurrah, probably had a lot to do with the decision, along with financial reasons. (In the NCAAs, the NCAA finances everything. In the ECACs, the participating schools finance everything.)

Sorry for any statements I made earlier that might have been misleading.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 12, 2006, 03:04:16 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 03:02:35 PM
What did we talk about, maybe seven of the 32 teams plus a couple that were left out? You guys got footage of Wilkes -- most people don't complain.

Exactly. -- Was a good show Pat. It was just good enough seeing DIII on an ESPN show.
Title: Playoffs
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 04:18:19 PM
what does everybody think
Title: Re: Playoffs
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 12, 2006, 04:19:59 PM
Too close to call....though I wager the E8 will talk so much more trash than the LL in the days leading up to this great match-up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ctgridironmom on November 12, 2006, 04:20:02 PM
I see the brackets, but I do not see the seedings, am i missing something?
Title: Re: Playoffs
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 04:34:00 PM
rowan beats up on hobart.........call me bitter
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BobNapoleone on November 12, 2006, 04:48:08 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 02:48:04 PM
heres a thought..........IC screws cortland over again with their loss to fisher

cstate...you gotta let it go man.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BobNapoleone on November 12, 2006, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 12, 2006, 01:56:14 PM
IC has indeed turned down an ECAC bid before, and they have again this year.

Go from playing in front of 8,000 against a rival, to playing Coast Guard?  I believe the team made the decision before the Cortland game, it would be their Super Bowl, and the last hoorah.  Can't blame them one bit.

tecmo.....the wise one speaks again....must be something about being dialed into your alma mater or something...
Title: Re: Playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 05:18:14 PM
This is pretty much what the board I created named "East Region Playoff Discussion" was for...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 12, 2006, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 02:38:46 PM
Time for the "who Max Power is rooting for" line: (Who cares?)

Hobart at Rowan

Hobart may not deserve to be in over Cortland, but I hate hate hate hate Rowan. (Profs aren't too crazy about you either!)

Union at St. John Fisher

Sorry guys, i just hate Fisher. (Do you like anybody?) 


mpower:
On the positive side, look at it this way ..... IC doesn't have to waste any money traveling this weekend since they'll be hooooooooome watching TV ;)

GO Profs! 8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 06:00:25 PM
What a great post!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fells on November 12, 2006, 06:05:43 PM
I am going to throw a hypothetical out if I may. As I do play-by-play for Middlebury College, and in its infinite lack of wisdom the NESCAC does not allow its schools to go to the NCAA tournament, where do you think Williams(who went 8-0) would be seeded? How do you all think they would do?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 06:06:52 PM
Why is a contributing writer from d3football.com asking for opinions from us? Shouldn't you be coming down off the mountain?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fells on November 12, 2006, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2006, 06:06:52 PM
Why is a contributing writer from d3football.com asking for opinions from us? Shouldn't you be coming down off the mountain?

Because, I know what I think, I would like to see what others think.

Fells
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 12, 2006, 07:41:16 PM
Quote from: fells on November 12, 2006, 06:05:43 PM
I am going to throw a hypothetical out if I may. As I do play-by-play for Middlebury College, and in its infinite lack of wisdom the NESCAC does not allow its schools to go to the NCAA tournament, where do you think Williams(who went 8-0) would be seeded? How do you all think they would do?

there is no auto bid i believe.......could be wrong
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 07:44:11 PM
Hence the hypothetical portion of the exercise.

Chris, having seen Williams this season I would rank them in the No. 15-20 range. Easily able to compete with the best in the Liberty League. Maybe not in the Cortland State/Rowan ballpark, two teams I saw this year. Definitely not as good as UW-Whitewater and Mary Hardin-Baylor, whom I also saw play this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fells on November 12, 2006, 07:45:13 PM
CState,

I should have rephrased the question. IF, the NESCAC played in the post season, which they do not due to conference regulations, where does everyone think Williams would be seeded? (8-0 this year)

My personal opinion is that with some of the weapons they have, they would be a one or a two seed in the East. I posed the question as there are many out there who know the rest of the nation better than I do. Doing play by play for a NESCAC team, I am not as familiar with the rest of the nation as I would like to be.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 12, 2006, 07:50:30 PM
Ok here's my next parody

It's the most wonderful time of the year.
With the Fisher Fans cow belling,
and everyone telling you,
"watch for that blitz,"
It's the most wonderful time of the year.

There'll be games for hosting,
burgers and hots for grilling and
cheering out in the snow.
there'll be scary teams going and
tales of the glories of Stagg Bowls
long, long ago.

It's the most wonderful time of the year.
There'll be much celebrating
and teams will be glowing,
when stagg bowl is near.
It's the most wonderful time of the year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theicdubbz on November 12, 2006, 07:55:35 PM
Tecmo message
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2006, 08:03:12 PM
I changed the poll to be more Eastern Comprehensive....I will try to put up a new poll every day and post the results of the previous one. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 12, 2006, 11:30:08 PM
Got a question, about money and D3playoffs, from the Wilkes athletic it says

"Tickets for Saturday's game will be available at the gate, which will open at 11:00 a.m., and are priced at $8.00 for adults and $4.00 for students. No athletic passes of any kind will be accepted. "

I was wondering where does the money go that is collected from the gates? Being that it sounds like it is a NCAA rule on pricing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 11:37:41 PM
Goes to the NCAA, oddly enough.

In return, playoff participants get a per diem, the visiting team gets its travel and lodging paid for, etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 12:09:50 AM
Anyone care to explain their votes on the pool above?

I will start.... I picked that 3 home teams would win. 

Right now, I believe That Rowan will be able to get by Hobart using their pretty good defense combined with the offense that has really come on lately, by a score of 24-14.

Wilkes will have some trouble with W&L, but will win 28-24.

Curry has no shot in my opinion really, but who knows...I will pick SC 38-24.

And that leaves me Union and Fisher.....And I already said that I think one road team wins......  I think when Union is on, they can beat anyone in the bracket. I look for it to be a shootout 31-28 Union. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 12:12:14 AM
Rowan and Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 13, 2006, 12:16:21 AM
So pat, in turn if there is a surplus of money it goes in to NCAAs pocket? Or does it rarely come out like that?

If say the NCAA does retain the surplus, and if all the games are in surplus how does the NCAA use the surplus? I thought NCAA was a non-profit org. (Maybe wrong) i guess the whole point is who is governing the NCAA i mean do they release the numbers and show it on a financial statement? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 12:21:01 AM
In the playoffs, nearly all expenses are covered by the NCAA... I doubt there's THAT much of a surplus, if any.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 13, 2006, 12:36:36 AM
Both Union and Hobart will win on the road ....2 home teams win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 13, 2006, 12:39:31 AM
If Rowans O comes to play they win a close one if they have -2 turnovers they lose. (Rowan)

With you on Curry no chance

Taking fisher based on common opp. scores (although both teams played Rochester and Springfield early in season)

Finally,

Wilkes, i think there are 3 factors that will work in Wilkes favor this weekend. The first being the 6hr bus trip for W&L i doubt they will be flying. 2nd will be the Wilkes crowd as Pat knows and reported that the students are very serious and upbeat about Wilkes ball this year and i am sure the will be in rare form. Finally weather it is forcasted to rain for next 2 days and on thurs plus all the rain NEPA has already got, the ground is very saturated up here, and Wilkes field is not the best when wet. thus i think you will see a stellar preformence by the Wilkes D and stopping the run. Also it will be in the 30's on sat not sure how much of a change that is down in Lexington.   

Wilkes wins +7
PS (Wilkes Fan)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 12:40:00 AM
Quote from: WUMAC on November 13, 2006, 12:16:21 AM
So pat, in turn if there is a surplus of money it goes in to NCAAs pocket? Or does it rarely come out like that?

If say the NCAA does retain the surplus, and if all the games are in surplus how does the NCAA use the surplus? I thought NCAA was a non-profit org. (Maybe wrong) i guess the whole point is who is governing the NCAA i mean do they release the numbers and show it on a financial statement? 

There isn't a surplus. I believe the budget committee does release statements to support this.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 12:46:43 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 12:40:00 AM
Quote from: WUMAC on November 13, 2006, 12:16:21 AM
So pat, in turn if there is a surplus of money it goes in to NCAAs pocket? Or does it rarely come out like that?

If say the NCAA does retain the surplus, and if all the games are in surplus how does the NCAA use the surplus? I thought NCAA was a non-profit org. (Maybe wrong) i guess the whole point is who is governing the NCAA i mean do they release the numbers and show it on a financial statement? 

There isn't a surplus. I believe the budget committee does release statements to support this.

You'd think with all the money they save on not sending teams on flights....

I'm just kidding! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 13, 2006, 12:54:22 AM
Quote from: WUMAC on November 13, 2006, 12:39:31 AM
If Rowans O comes to play they win a close one if they have -2 turnovers they lose. (Rowan)

With you on Curry no chance

Taking fisher based on common opp. scores (although both teams played Rochester and Springfield early in season)

Finally,

Wilkes, i think there are 3 factors that will work in Wilkes favor this weekend. The first being the 6hr bus trip for W&L i doubt they will be flying. 2nd will be the Wilkes crowd as Pat knows and reported that the students are very serious and upbeat about Wilkes ball this year and i am sure the will be in rare form. Finally weather it is forcasted to rain for next 2 days and on thurs plus all the rain NEPA has already got, the ground is very saturated up here, and Wilkes field is not the best when wet. thus i think you will see a stellar preformence by the Wilkes D and stopping the run. Also it will be in the 30's on sat not sure how much of a change that is down in Lexington.   

Wilkes wins +7
PS (Wilkes Fan)
Union lost to Springfield 38-30 first game of the season
                SJF  lost to Springfield   55-38  seventh game of season
                Union beat Rochester 27-24  fourth game of the season
                SJF beat Rochester  30-10  second game of the season
        Seems like you can't make much of anything out of this.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 12:58:11 AM
Quote from: dea on November 13, 2006, 12:54:22 AM
Quote from: WUMAC on November 13, 2006, 12:39:31 AM
If Rowans O comes to play they win a close one if they have -2 turnovers they lose. (Rowan)

With you on Curry no chance

Taking fisher based on common opp. scores (although both teams played Rochester and Springfield early in season)

Finally,

Wilkes, i think there are 3 factors that will work in Wilkes favor this weekend. The first being the 6hr bus trip for W&L i doubt they will be flying. 2nd will be the Wilkes crowd as Pat knows and reported that the students are very serious and upbeat about Wilkes ball this year and i am sure the will be in rare form. Finally weather it is forcasted to rain for next 2 days and on thurs plus all the rain NEPA has already got, the ground is very saturated up here, and Wilkes field is not the best when wet. thus i think you will see a stellar preformence by the Wilkes D and stopping the run. Also it will be in the 30's on sat not sure how much of a change that is down in Lexington.   

Wilkes wins +7
PS (Wilkes Fan)
Union lost to Springfield 38-30 first game of the season
                SJF  lost to Springfield   55-38  seventh game of season
                Union beat Rochester 27-24  fourth game of the season
                SJF beat Rochester  30-10  second game of the season
        Seems like you can't make much of anything out of this.

I concur...I think the Union/Fisher game will be the most entertaining of the 4 East Region games, if nothing else. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 09:49:07 AM
when you get to the playoffs you have to throw out all the games before so here is what I think

Union is coming off a loss, in a rival game, not a good way to enter the playoffs
Union is playing on the road in a place that I feel the students will be out in full force and lets not forget that fisher parents can be quite vicisous, sorry ER

I think it comes down to the d's Union's d gives up an average of 20.2  While Fishers D' Gives up an average of around 12

The offenses fisher scores an average of 40
and union scores around 30


So I think as much as everyone wants Union to win, I think the Fisher D stands a better chance at stopping the Union O then the Union D stoping Fisher's o
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 09:50:45 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 09:49:07 AM
when you get to the playoffs you have to throw out all the games before so here is what I think

Union is coming off a loss, in a rival game, not a good way to enter the playoffs
Union is playing on the road in a place that I feel the students will be out in full force and lets not forget that fisher parents can be quite vicisous, sorry ER

I think it comes down to the d's Union's d gives up an average of 20.2  While Fishers D' Gives up an average of around 12

The offenses fisher scores an average of 40
and union scores around 30


So I think as much as everyone wants Union to win, I think the Fisher D stands a better chance at stopping the Union O then the Union D stoping Fisher's o

Rather have them coming off a loss in a rival game than a loss in another game.... at least it will light a fire under them.

You are right about Fisher parents, btw. Nasty.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 09:56:01 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 09:49:07 AM
when you get to the playoffs you have to throw out all the games before so here is what I think

Union is coming off a loss, in a rival game, not a good way to enter the playoffs
Union is playing on the road in a place that I feel the students will be out in full force and lets not forget that fisher parents can be quite vicisous, sorry ER

I think it comes down to the d's Union's d gives up an average of 20.2  While Fishers D' Gives up an average of around 12

The offenses fisher scores an average of 40
and union scores around 30


So I think as much as everyone wants Union to win, I think the Fisher D stands a better chance at stopping the Union O then the Union D stoping Fisher's o


I think I have a beef with people who keep saying since its the playoffs, throw out all the other games....and then back that up with stats from the teams. This is about the 3rd, maybe 4th time I've seen it and if you're going to throw out the other games...then throw out the stats too, because they dont mean anything.  If you're not going to throw out the stats, then you cant throw out the game. They go hand in hand!!!

And superman, why you playin "world against us"? You're on the E8 board, I'd say pretty much everyone is pullin for the cardinals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 09:57:34 AM
This is the playoff board, fan of springfield.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 09:58:17 AM
what would you rather have coming off a 41-17 win a must win game or a 24-19 loss  and no, the only people pulling for fisher are the fisher fans sorry d3  and I say you have to throw everything out because anything can still happen, but to have a good idea of what each team can do you need to use stats from the regular season to see where each team had strengths and weaknesses
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 09:59:03 AM
Touche...

Ya got me Maxbomber
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 09:59:03 AM
Touche...

Ya got me Maxbomber

Here's my question:  You waited until you were pretty sure Springfield would make the playoffs before showing up.  Will you still be around after they get eliminated?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:06:09 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 09:59:03 AM
Touche...

Ya got me Maxbomber

Here's my question:  You waited until you were pretty sure Springfield would make the playoffs before showing up.  Will you still be around after they get eliminated?

Here's my answer:

I've been on the boards all y ear long, but after much questioning as to where the springfield posters were, I decided to join along in all the fun.  Will I still be around after they get eliminated? I'm not sure if that was a funny attempt at saying they will be eliminated early or something but yes, I will be.  Only because there is no chance in hell of Springfield winning the national championship so they have to be eliminated at some point.  Jose, will you still be around after Ithaca gets elimin.....

Oops, sorry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:07:12 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:06:09 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 09:59:03 AM
Touche...

Ya got me Maxbomber

Here's my question:  You waited until you were pretty sure Springfield would make the playoffs before showing up.  Will you still be around after they get eliminated?

Here's my answer:

I've been on the boards all y ear long, but after much questioning as to where the springfield posters were, I decided to join along in all the fun.  Will I still be around after they get eliminated? I'm not sure if that was a funny attempt at saying they will be eliminated early or something but yes, I will be.  Only because there is no chance in hell of Springfield winning the national championship so they have to be eliminated at some point.  Jose, will you still be around after Ithaca gets elimin.....

Oops, sorry.

Very "suddle."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:07:21 AM
And my "touche" remark to Maxbomer was in reference to when I said this was the E8 board...

And he corrected me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:08:18 AM
Make all the corrections to spelling that you would like, but after seeing all the jokes on here, i thought "suddle" would be a rise out of people.

Yes, i realize it is subtle...

Sorry for the jokes boys.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:09:47 AM
Maybe you should take your head out from your posterior and realize maybe some of us are joking too. It's not the world against Springfield, this is the E8 board!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:12:08 AM
I dont think I've tried to pull the world against springfield card.  I've seen a lot of people on here say they would root for SC in the playoffs.

Anyways Maxbomber, i'm more prone to having my foot in my mouth than head up my ass
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:12:08 AM
I dont think I've tried to pull the world against springfield card.  I've seen a lot of people on here say they would root for SC in the playoffs.

Anyways Maxbomber, i'm more prone to having my foot in my mouth than head up my ass

Good stuff, truce. I am rooting for SC in the playoffs... as I said it bugs me that a rather one-dimensional team can be so good, but if their only loss on the way to Salem is IC, that will help take some of the sting out of the season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:16:13 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:12:08 AM
I dont think I've tried to pull the world against springfield card.  I've seen a lot of people on here say they would root for SC in the playoffs.

Anyways Maxbomber, i'm more prone to having my foot in my mouth than head up my ass

Good stuff, truce. I am rooting for SC in the playoffs... as I said it bugs me that a rather one-dimensional team can be so good, but if their only loss on the way to Salem is IC, that will help take some of the sting out of the season.

On the way to Salem?  Seriously?

Fan of D3, go look up DeLong's playoff record...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:16:54 AM
Careful Jose, yell at me, I'm the one that said that. Just pointing out that I'm rooting for SC, if nothing else.


They say nothing is better for a sport than having a recognizable star. Maybe Sharpe, though not as good as Cahill, can get D3 a little more on the map.

Or maybe not.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:19:26 AM
Jose, did you not have your coffee this morning? Seem a little grouchy.  I'm not worried about his playoff record.  What I am concerned with is curry, and then the winner of SJF and union...All 3 teams are beatable with the SC triple option.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:20:49 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:19:26 AM
I'm not worried about his playoff record.

I think Colts fans were saying the same thing about Tony Dungy last year...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:24:38 AM
Kind of a weak case.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 10:28:56 AM
Not at all a weak case very similar, if a team fgures out how to stop the option it can get very ugly for springfield, Ithaca being the case this year
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:30:31 AM
I definitely agree.  If a coach is a gimmick coach, like DeLong, than his past playoff record is a good indicator of how his gimmick will work this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:32:36 AM
His gimmick worked to the tune of a 9-1 record.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:35:11 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:32:36 AM
His gimmick worked to the tune of a 9-1 record.

It has lead to a lot of regular season success.  In fact, so much regular season success that they have gotten to lose at home in the playoffs quite a bit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:39:11 AM
Talking about their past playoff success/failure is about as relevant as talking about ithacas success about 2 decades ago in the playoffs.. It's irrelevant jose.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 10:40:01 AM
Jose i wish I could give you more karma, btw did you get out to see the UF-USC game saturday, Moss is a freak with that leap
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:43:01 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:39:11 AM
Talking about their past playoff success/failure is about as relevant as talking about ithacas success about 2 decades ago in the playoffs.. It's irrelevant jose.

Instead of repeating yourself, why don't you, say, make a counterargument.  I'd be happy to repeat my argument why it is relevant in shorter sentences with smaller words if that would help.

SC has gimmick.

Gimmick worked in past regular seasons.

Gimmick did not work in past post seasons.

This season is not different. (This would be a good place to start your counterargument.  ie Why is this season different fan of repetition?)

Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 10:40:01 AM
Jose i wish I could give you more karma, btw did you get out to see the UF-USC game saturday, Moss is a freak with that leap

It was incredible.  We were near the top of the stadium (by near I mean there was only one row behind us) and the whole place was shaking.  The block was a ridiculously athletic play.  Gotta give the old ballcoach props though, he gave Gator Nation the thumbs up on the way out. 

P.S.  They are now calling Moss the "Ultimate Cock Block" in Gainesville.  Comedy that would really be appreciated in the LLPP I imagine.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 10:39:11 AM
Talking about their past playoff success/failure is about as relevant as talking about ithacas success about 2 decades ago in the playoffs.. It's irrelevant jose.

I hear what you're saying but it's not irrelevant when the team is so similar. Look at 2003 for example... undefeated season, but couldn't handle RPI at home. (Who RPI went on to beat is irrelevant.) And as we have discussed, Sharpe is very good but not miles better than SC's last two guys, and certainly not that much better than Cahill, if at all. Ithaca was a completely different team when it was winning titles, with a different coach. What has changed for SC?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:47:37 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 10:44:53 AM
What has changed for SC?

Fan of flimsy arguments jumped on their bandwagon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 10:48:51 AM
they got real lucky too, I'm rooting for either them or Rutgers to omake the NC game, I think it would be a rip if rutgers beats Louisville and WV and still does not make the championship game
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 10:52:37 AM
You're right about the Gators being lucky Superman.  They are heading in the wrong direction at the wrong time of year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:00:48 AM
whoa whoa whoa, gimmick offense? gimmick coach? get your facts straight. sc isn't going to trick you with anything. you know what is coming and as a coaching staff, its your job to coach up the option as much as possible, which is hard as hell by the way. its hard to simulate the speed of that offense with any scout team, or the discipline they have. ithaca didn't "stop" the offense that day. the sloppy field, weather conditions, and uncut grass did. regardless, if they play on a sloppy surface in the postseason, their chances aren't as good as playing on any artificial surface. and if i recall, sc made it to the final 8 in 2000 with cahill at the helm. in 2002, they played a "home" game at brockport. they were the 4 seed and brockport was the 5 seed but since the field hockey national championship was at sc, administrators didn't want to do their job and shift the games around to accommodate the football program. so what am i getting at? they played on the worst field imaginable at special olympic stadium...a field that didn't host the following weeks game against christopher newport. in 2003, as i mentioned last night, they ran into an rpi team clicking on all cylinders. seriously, the shotgun, 5 wide, no huddle offense ate them up. but that game wasn't a fluke either, as rpi advanced to the final 4.

i don't think fan of d3 thinks everyone is against sc. i would hope that fellow e8ers are rooting for springfield.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 11:04:58 AM
I'm not rooting for anyone in the playoffs.  I do think SC is a gimmick offense.  I am not arguing that they don't play the option extremely effectively but, I think it doesn't work when they run into playoff teams.  I call it a gimmick because they just do one thing over and over.  If it wasn't a gimmick offense, it would work on any type of playing surface.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: John McGraw on November 13, 2006, 11:07:58 AM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:00:48 AM
whoa whoa whoa, gimmick offense? gimmick coach? get your facts straight. sc isn't going to trick you with anything. you know what is coming and as a coaching staff, its your job to coach up the option as much as possible, which is hard as hell by the way. its hard to simulate the speed of that offense with any scout team, or the discipline they have. ithaca didn't "stop" the offense that day. the sloppy field, weather conditions, and uncut grass did. regardless, if they play on a sloppy surface in the postseason, their chances aren't as good as playing on any artificial surface. and if i recall, sc made it to the final 8 in 2000 with cahill at the helm. in 2002, they played a "home" game at brockport. they were the 4 seed and brockport was the 5 seed but since the field hockey national championship was at sc, administrators didn't want to do their job and shift the games around to accommodate the football program. so what am i getting at? they played on the worst field imaginable at special olympic stadium...a field that didn't host the following weeks game against christopher newport. in 2003, as i mentioned last night, they ran into an rpi team clicking on all cylinders. seriously, the shotgun, 5 wide, no huddle offense ate them up. but that game wasn't a fluke either, as rpi advanced to the final 4.

i don't think fan of d3 thinks everyone is against sc. i would hope that fellow e8ers are rooting for springfield.

Enough about the grass and mud. Yes, mud and grass are harder to make cuts on than field turf. But, Springfield's won before at Butterfield Stadium with the same type of offense.

Football is an outdoor game. You have to adapt to the conditions to win. Ithaca adapted to the conditions and won the football game.

Sooner or later, Springfield, if they advance, will need to play on grass in rotten conditions. Winter and the northeast have a way of turning even the nicest grass fields into slop.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:09:40 AM
i'm pretty sure a gimmick offense involves a lot of trick plays jose...how can it be gimmick when they are running option play after option play. to run that offense, just like most offenses, takes a lot of discipline and execution. if you don't have a qb that can run it, the whole offense sucks (reference to sc's 0-4 start in 2005). the sharpe kid will turn out better than both sylvia and cahill...those 2 never put up the numbers sharpe did this year, not even close.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 11:10:12 AM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:00:48 AM
ithaca didn't "stop" the offense that day. the sloppy field, weather conditions, and uncut grass did.

I was at that game buddy. Sharpe was ineffective in a lot of ways that had nothing to do with the grass.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:30:20 AM
jose, they have won in the playoffs. and in the playoffs, their offense won't be the issue...it will be their defense, known to be extremely porous at times. they can win with that offense. i've seen it firsthand.  so there you go, i'm not diverting from your question. also, i think this team is better coached than in previous years. they find a way to keep the ball in sharpe's hands.

that blocked punt killed sc from the start of that game, that is for sure. they never had a chance to play on top, something they've done pretty much all year. hopefully they learned their lesson. were the sc fans arguing jose or were they saying? i think your lawyer nature is coming out today!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 11:33:53 AM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:30:20 AM
jose, they have won in the playoffs. and in the playoffs, their offense won't be the issue...it will be their defense, known to be extremely porous at times. they can win with that offense. i've seen it firsthand.  so there you go, i'm not diverting from your question. also, i think this team is better coached than in previous years. they find a way to keep the ball in sharpe's hands.

that blocked punt killed sc from the start of that game, that is for sure. they never had a chance to play on top, something they've done pretty much all year. hopefully they learned their lesson. were the sc fans arguing jose or were they saying? i think your lawyer nature is coming out today!


This doesn't really answer the question..... why can SC win in the playoffs this year... you say they are better coached, HOW are they better coached?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:30:20 AMtheir offense won't be the issue...it will be their defense, known to be extremely porous at times.

This certainly has been a problem.  Not to be cliche, but championship teams always have good defenses.

Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:30:20 AM
i think this team is better coached than in previous years. they find a way to keep the ball in sharpe's hands.

Finally, something that is different than previous seasons.  My follow up question is, if the ball stays in Sharpe's hands more often, does that make them too one dimensional?

Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:30:20 AM
that blocked punt killed sc from the start of that game, that is for sure. they never had a chance to play on top, something they've done pretty much all year. hopefully they learned their lesson.

Are you saying they can't play from behind or just didn't know how that day?  I would think one is good and one is bad.

Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:30:20 AM
were the sc fans arguing jose or were they saying? i think your lawyer nature is coming out today!

Fan of SC just kept using the word "irrelevant."  I think it was on his word-of-the-day toilet paper this morning.  Thank the lord "superfluous" wasn't today's word.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 11:38:26 AM
Max,

Nice use of the government grant guy.

Shouldn't be applying for some of those by now?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:39:32 AM
they find ways to keep the ball in the best player's hands...as i mentioned earlier. thats better coaching. plus, look at their draw this year. they need to beat an nefc team, then the winner of a matchup of 2 teams they've already beaten this year....and they get them at home, although i will say that its hard to beat a team twice in one year.  i have a good feeling about this team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?

When was the last time Ithaca made it as far as the final 8?
Springfield, I believe, did it in 2000 and that gimmick offense scored over 40 in an Elite 8 Game.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 11:43:28 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:38:26 AM
Max,

Nice use of the government grant guy.

Shouldn't be applying for some of those by now?

Already applied for one, with your help, if you remember. Does trying to go to grad school for free count? Also, how the hell do I write a "statement of purpose", especially when one is supposed to be 500 words and one is supposed to be 2-3 pages?!

Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?

When was the last time Ithaca made it as far as the final 8?
Springfield, I believe, did it in 2000 and that gimmick offense scored over 40 in an Elite 8 Game.....

He's right Jose. Ithaca hasn't made it to the final 8 in (gasp) three years (three fewer than SC, as you point out yourself Reno), which has a large bearing on how SC will do this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: John McGraw on November 13, 2006, 11:44:37 AM
By the nature of Springfield's offense, its hard for them to play from behind. There's always the threat of a big play with Sharpe or one of the running backs breaking a big run. But, there's not the big pass play potential to get them right back in it. Sure, Springfield occasionally throws the football, but if they're behind, I see them staying in the more conservative ground game. And if SC can't bust out a big run and the ground game is held up, that's a majority of their offense.

FYI, Springfield went to the regional final in 2000 and was aboslutely destroyed by Widener at home, 61-27. The same Widener team boasted Post Patterns favorite poster, Widener WR Jim Jones.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 11:46:57 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?

When was the last time Ithaca made it as far as the final 8?
Springfield, I believe, did it in 2000 and that gimmick offense scored over 40 in an Elite 8 Game.....

Seriously dude, its called Google.  Look into it.  It really keeps the taste of shoe leather out of your mouth.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:46:57 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?

When was the last time Ithaca made it as far as the final 8?
Springfield, I believe, did it in 2000 and that gimmick offense scored over 40 in an Elite 8 Game.....

Seriously dude, its called Google.  Look into it.  It really keeps the taste of shoe leather out of your mouth.

Google, hell, I'll pull a Pat Coleman and say just check out THE WEBSITE YOU ARE CURRENTLY USING once in awhile. I hear they have some info on DIII football!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 11:50:21 AM
jim jones posted on here?  ha.....that guy was a stud and so was marcus coleman, who got drafted in the 7th round by the atl falcons that year. it as close for a half i believe. that widener team was the best i've seen in person...and then they lost 70-30 to mount union the following week....damn the midwest!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: John McGraw on November 13, 2006, 11:55:05 AM
Marcus Coleman? Who's he?

I know Michael Coleman was an All-American at Widener in 2000 and 2001.

In fact, he was a 2000 D3football.com All-America second team wide receiver. The following year, he was listed ahead of Jones (2nd team) as a D3football.com All-America first team selection.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 12:05:03 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:46:57 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?

When was the last time Ithaca made it as far as the final 8?
Springfield, I believe, did it in 2000 and that gimmick offense scored over 40 in an Elite 8 Game.....

Seriously dude, its called Google.  Look into it.  It really keeps the taste of shoe leather out of your mouth.

Did you see the question mark Jose? Reno was asking a question.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 12:14:05 PM
thanks mcgraw, you wiseguy. yea, i must have got him mixed up with the guy that just got cut from the cowboys for DUI. i don't feel like looking up names but at least i got half of it right.  that team had more speed than any i've ever seen at the d3 level. their qb granato was good too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 12:37:52 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:46:57 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 11:12:04 AM
Isn't the option a trick play?  And don't they run it play after play?

They run it well.  But I don't think they can win with it in the playoffs. 

As for the grass, before the game SC fan(s) were arguing that the grass would not be an issue because the defense had to run and cut on the same field.  Is that argument now abandoned because the defense did run and cut on the same field?

EDIT:  Yet again, SC fans have diverted the discussion away from the question I posed.  Why is this SC team different than previous SC teams that couldn't win with consistency in the playoffs?

When was the last time Ithaca made it as far as the final 8?
Springfield, I believe, did it in 2000 and that gimmick offense scored over 40 in an Elite 8 Game.....

Seriously dude, its called Google.  Look into it.  It really keeps the taste of shoe leather out of your mouth.

Google, hell, I'll pull a Pat Coleman and say just check out THE WEBSITE YOU ARE CURRENTLY USING once in awhile. I hear they have some info on DIII football!
+1 for you :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
JOSE YOU ARE THE MAN

you make relevant arguments by pointing out words that i have used such as irelevant to make your point sound much more firm.

Also, changing my name from Fan of D3, to fan of SC to Fan of Springfield has been very clever and also making your points as to why springfield has a gimmick offense.  Thank GOD the word of the day wasnt superfluous, i dont think i could use it in a sentence!!!

JoseICdidntmaketheplayoffs..Arguments on message boards, or trying to make someone you're "point-counter pointing" with seem stupid by using bad humor is just flat out poor. Please refrain.

I cannot wait to hear your response to "fan of whining" or "Fan of SC losing in the first round".  Heck, surprise me, give me "Fan of going to the playoffs".

This post is direted to jose, not you max or anyone else so I hope I dont offend.  Just wanna clear up some grey areas...



HEY PRIDE
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
JOSE YOU ARE THE MAN

A point on which we agree.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).

Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
you make relevant arguments by pointing out words that i have used such as irelevant to make your point sound much more firm.

Again, we agree, my arguments are relevant.  They are also relevant, relevant, relevant, relevant, and
relevant
.

We also agree that I use the words of your argument to point out its inconsistencies.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).

Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
Also, changing my name from Fan of D3, to fan of SC to Fan of Springfield has been very clever and also making your points as to why springfield has a gimmick offense.  Thank GOD the word of the day wasnt superfluous, i dont think i could use it in a sentence!!!

We also agree that I am clever and, despite the disjointed sentence structure, agree that my points as to the gimmicky nature of SC's offense are valid.  We are really making progress here.  You may not be able to use to word superfluous in a sentence but you certainly can lay the irony on thick by ending that sentence with superfluous punctuation.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).

Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
JoseICdidntmaketheplayoffs..Arguments on message boards, or trying to make someone you're "point-counter pointing" with seem stupid by using bad humor is just flat out poor. Please refrain.

Fan of Scattered Thought... does this sentence mean that arguments on message boards are poor and should be refrained from?  If so, why are you making a counterargument?  Or, does this sentence mean humor should not be used in a point-counterpoint?  If so, I think I am ok with the jokes as you have never raised a counterpoint.  Once we cross that threshold we can discuss further the quality of my humor.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).

Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
I cannot wait to hear your response to "fan of whining" or "Fan of SC losing in the first round".  Heck, surprise me, give me "Fan of going to the playoffs".

I think this was a noble attempt at trying to make fun of yourself so as to steal my thunder.  That is an interesting tack that I didn't see coming.  The next place I would have gone was Fan of Getting Monkey Stomped at Butterfield or, Fan of Backing into the Playoffs, or Fan of complaining about the field conditions.  But, you seemed to have usurped those.  You also seem to sell yourself short.  You are free to be a Fan of Going to the Playoffs.  We, at IC, will continue to be Fans of Winning the Big one.  Or, more accurately, Fans of Winning the Big One...three times.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).

Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
This post is direted to jose, not you max or anyone else so I hope I dont offend.  Just wanna clear up some grey areas...

Please boys, one at a time.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).

Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
HEY PRIDE

Man there is a great spoof on this ridiculous cheer that Max sent me in a private message.  I can't do it though.  I can't.  Pat already warned me once.

Note: No response to my contention that this SC team is just like all the previous SC teams thus making their previous playoff experience relevant (which is the oppossite of irrelevant).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 02:08:16 PM
fan of backing into playoffs....good one jose. 9-1 and a #2 seed doesn't match up with that one though. the joke related to "hey pride" - now that got a snicker out of me.  good banter today, i'll be around on the nightshift.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 02:10:47 PM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 02:08:16 PM
fan of backing into playoffs....good one jose. 9-1 and a #2 seed doesn't match up with that one though. the joke related to "hey pride" - now that got a snicker out of me.  good banter today, i'll be around on the nightshift.

I'll give you credit.  You at least raised an argument why this SC team is different/better than the past.  I don't agree with the argument but it was better than "they are better because I say so."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 02:11:17 PM
fan of d3 making fun of Jose is like making fun of the Pat Coleman of E8,  Jose's knowledge about what he talks anout is second to none unlike yours where you are blind sided by your tripple option, well I hope that someone takes your tripple option and sticks it up your butt
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 02:16:04 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 02:11:17 PM
fan of d3 making fun of Jose is like making fun of the Pat Coleman of E8,  Jose's knowledge about what he talks anout is second to none unlike yours where you are blind sided by your tripple option, well I hope that someone takes your tripple option and sticks it up your butt

+k for the compliment.  I am going to defer to Tecmo on some topics and to my "sources" on others. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 02:18:40 PM
Once again...

JOSE you are the man and I can only wish that someday I will be like you.  Please, fellow SC posters, do not try to prove anything to jose because we are all wrong, all of us.  Thank you oh mighty Jose for gracing me with your knowledge.  

This is Fan of Watching IC not being the top 25, not winning the jug, not making the playoffs....I like the way that sounds for a new name.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2006, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 02:11:17 PM
fan of d3 making fun of Jose is like making fun of the Pat Coleman of E8,  Jose's knowledge about what he talks anout is second to none unlike yours where you are blind sided by your tripple option, well I hope that someone takes your tripple option and sticks it up your butt


lot of manlove going on here.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 02:21:54 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 02:18:40 PM
Thank you oh mighty Jose for gracing me with your knowledge.  

It really isn't a problem.  All you had to do was ask.  I am very generous.

Quote from: redtackle on November 13, 2006, 02:19:08 PM
lot of manlove going on here.....

RT, don't get RowanLB92 started. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 02:25:54 PM
Listen Jose is just trying to get you to make a point, which your not,  and just because his team had a rough season doesn't mean anything, HEY Pride what was your record last year? Huh
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 03:04:34 PM
i'm trying to work here but i have to respond to your comment superman57....what in god's green earth are you trying to prove asking about sc's record last year??? that isn't proving anything in your case. at least jose has logic in his posts, even if i don't agree with him on some things.

to answer your question: 4-6

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 03:08:21 PM
my point is fan of d3 is beating up on IC for having a down season this year, when last year SC went 4-6
what I'm saying is those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones  Springfield had a real bad year last year and for all we know next year could be just as bad.  So don't bassh IC for going a very respectable 7-3 with 3 losses to 3 great teams
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 03:13:11 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 03:08:21 PM
my point is fan of d3 is beating up on IC for having a down season this year, when last year SC went 4-6
what I'm saying is those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones  Springfield had a real bad year last year and for all we know next year could be just as bad.  So don't bassh IC for going a very respectable 7-3 with 3 losses to 3 great teams

And a convincing win over another...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 03:15:53 PM
Listen superman, I dont need you interpreting Jose's messages for me, although I do appreciate it, its not necessary.

I wasnt bashing IC at all except to Jose because there was ribbing going back and forth.  Before you talk, check your facts because ont he cortaca board I was rooting for IC.  And I also stated it was a shame they got left out and I hoped they would come back strong next season.  So please, enough.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 03:18:37 PM
anyone ever tell you your an idiot
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 03:19:10 PM
my karma is really going down the tubes...holy crap! i think i've had a 4-5 point swing thus far.  ithaca's down year is 7-3...thats not a bad year at all. also, ithaca could probably be in the postseason if they chose to but they didn't. lastly, i think fan of d3 is asking for too much on this board, playing the whole "nobody respects sc" card. i'm pretty darn sure that most people on this board respect sc and their program but he doesn't realize he's a massguy on a board with all cny/wny teams/posters. i'm not asking for any of that and being unreasonable...hell, i'm not asking for anything!

bottom line: this league is going to be competitive every year. the banding together of fisher/ic fans is quite interesting but hey, i'm all for rooting against union!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 03:21:31 PM
Yo Truth, please, do not try and roll me under the bus. I already had this conversation with Max once today and I'm not asking for respect for Sc, in fact i couldnt give two ****s if SC gets it.  Read back about 4 pages.

And superman, you are cool.  You made an excellent point.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 03:26:39 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 03:21:31 PM
And superman, you are cool. 


darn straight I'm cool
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 13, 2006, 03:27:38 PM
fan, then i'm sorry for misintepreting what you said...and i posted that before i read your last post.  i'm not trying to roll you under the bus thats for sure.

we should also talk a little about curry, since they are probably the best team to represent the nefc in the playoffs. hopefully the boys won't be looking past round 1.

can't we just all be friends?? i'm getting a headache.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 03:39:29 PM
I bet that curry comes out fired up but thats about it.  I dont think they have seen the type of physical play in the nefc that SC will give them.  They will be worn down.  Heck they almost lost to plymouth state.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 13, 2006, 03:49:16 PM
Fan of Bombsaway?

Dividing fans of the same team since October 2006?


Also, fan of not giving max credit, you didn't give me credit, I believe I was the first one to say "fan of springfield" waayyyy back when you joined as soon as SC was 7-0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 04:03:41 PM
what ever happend to bombs away he made it real easy to hate ithaca kind of like Chris Sarge who has yet to be seen after fisher manhandled Alfred
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BobNapoleone on November 13, 2006, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 13, 2006, 03:08:21 PM
my point is fan of d3 is beating up on IC for having a down season this year, when last year SC went 4-6
what I'm saying is those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones  Springfield had a real bad year last year and for all we know next year could be just as bad.  So don't bassh IC for going a very respectable 7-3 with 3 losses to 3 great teams

WHAT is the world of d3 coming to when a Fisher fan ( a good one I might add) comes to the defense of IC......?????? 

....and superman...Thanks, but we can take care of business......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2006, 04:30:59 PM
Mr. N.  what does the future hold for Little Mr. N?  Going to jump on the coaching pipeline to SC?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2006, 04:33:28 PM
Mr. N, I have a huge amount of respect for you guys as fans, the FDC is a real class act
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:34:06 PM
Here are the predictions from D3's most hated poster.

Wilkes 24 W&L 14- Generals come up short on the road in a very unexciting game.

Rowan 30 Hobart 13- Profs jump out early and D stifles Statesmen.

SJF 35 Union 27- Cardinals hold off late rally to advance at home.

Springfield 45 Curry 7- Pride romp.

Any arguements??

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2006, 04:35:58 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:34:06 PM
.....D3's most hated poster.


at least we can all agree on one thing about this one....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:38:06 PM
Thanks man

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:38:43 PM
damn my posts are more than my negative karma again!

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2006, 04:39:42 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:38:06 PM
Thanks man

CK

np...no go back in your cell until it's time for your next exercise break

:)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:41:16 PM
thats the best you could come up with?

you're slippin!

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2006, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:41:16 PM
thats the best you could come up with?

you're slippin!

CK


I know....I'm trying to do too many things today. Still focused on work...WTF??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BobNapoleone on November 13, 2006, 04:44:59 PM
Quote from: joseqviper on November 13, 2006, 04:30:59 PM
Mr. N.  what does the future hold for Little Mr. N?  Going to jump on the coaching pipeline to SC?

jose......another year up in Rochester working on the masters..then another stint to get his "clinical doctorate" in PT.....I don't see a detour thru SC, BUT never say never....

Man, I hope he does coach...but I only think that happens at the High School level..never know....

...and Superman......Thanks for recognizing the FDC guys..they "adopted" us the first game we attended at Butterfield....and have spent every game next to them since.....

They are a real credit to what IC is all about....the school as well as the BOMBERS football program
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 13, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 04:34:06 PM
Here are the predictions from D3's most hated poster.

RowanTexan:

I thought that I was the most hated Rowan poster.  My -karma is higher than my blood pressure.

That's due mainly to all of my many Linfield fans out on the NW board.  They just don't understand my overwhelming admiration for all of them. 

I'll bet that they probably think that I'm ecstatic about Linfield not making the playoffs. 8)  Well, on second thought, maybe they do understand!

P.S.:  I like your RU/Hobart prediction ..... (Rowan 30 Hobart 13- Profs jump out early and D stifles Statesmen).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 07:02:58 PM
Ok All, time for another poll to be posted shortly, The previous poll responses were as follows:

How many home times will win?

4   6 (26.1%)
3   9 (39.1%)
2   4 (17.4%)
1   0 (0%)
0   4 (17.4%)

Most do think that the home teams will be victorious in at least 3 of the 4 games.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 13, 2006, 07:16:30 PM
Ah max I'm sorry...

Indeed you were the first to dub me Fan of Springfield, and then jose jumped on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 13, 2006, 07:26:17 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 13, 2006, 07:02:58 PM
Ok All, time for another poll to be posted shortly, The previous poll responses were as follows:

How many home times will win?

4   6 (26.1%)
3   9 (39.1%)
2   4 (17.4%)
1   0 (0%)
0   4 (17.4%)

Most do think that the home teams will be victorious in at least 3 of the 4 games.



I didnt like that poll so I picked 0 just to be a prick.  Sorry. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 07:28:44 PM
Quote from: Lord Johathan Preston Utah XVI on November 13, 2006, 07:26:17 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 13, 2006, 07:02:58 PM
Ok All, time for another poll to be posted shortly, The previous poll responses were as follows:

How many home times will win?

4   6 (26.1%)
3   9 (39.1%)
2   4 (17.4%)
1   0 (0%)
0   4 (17.4%)

Most do think that the home teams will be victorious in at least 3 of the 4 games.



I didnt like that poll so I picked 0 just to be a prick.  Sorry. 

Well! My feelings are hurt!   :'( or not who gives bleep.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 13, 2006, 09:12:14 PM
Texan & RU-

Those some seriously impressive Karma numbers!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 09:17:50 PM
Thanks Tags and thanks RU Fan.  RU Fan really has some very impressive negative karma.  I got most of mine from the LL last year after Rowan beat down Union.

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2006, 09:21:28 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 09:17:50 PM
I got most of mine from the LL last year after Rowan beat down Union.

CK

Don't flatter yourself...you earned those numbers over a full season. The LL aren't frontrunners
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 10:12:15 PM
Ok who picked Curry...Defend yourself!  Was it Utah again!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 13, 2006, 10:20:37 PM
Twas not.  The Prideth of the Berkshires was my club of choice....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2006, 10:24:39 PM
Oh, I thought it had to be a joke...now it's even more sad!

I'm wondering how long I can handle my own handle....Probably not long....I already lost Karma for it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 13, 2006, 10:25:49 PM
Quote from: Lord Johathan "The Bloody" Preston Utah XVI Prince of Tompkins on November 13, 2006, 10:20:37 PM
Twas not.  The Prideth of the Berkshires was my club of choice....

The Prideth of the Delaware East of the Philadelphius was my club of choice.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 13, 2006, 10:29:41 PM
Wilkes posters need to step it up - Any on board?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2006, 12:24:14 AM
A couple people have made clear their vote, anyone want to defend their vote on who will win the East?

I said Rowan, and here's why... 2 weeks ago I called them the Worst Playoff Team ever, however I have decided that's a gross misstatement.  They obviously have the defense to win, and their offense has started to come to life at the right time.  I think they are the top of the mountain until proved otherwise. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 14, 2006, 11:44:39 AM
Rowan wins!  They have a near impenetrable defense.  Most teams will come out with 50 yards rushing on the day. When you are forced to throw against some good secondary players they are just going to sit and wait.  Their D Line and Lb's will T Off on most O Lines and just beat most teams brains out.
   Offensively, they run the spread Option.  They have a limitied playbook like SC, but each play is like 3 in 1 because they are all "Reads on the go".  Zone Option, Speed Option, QB Counter Tre, and a ball control pass game is what they will do.  If they get the short passing game going(X Factor), No defense will be able to put enough guys in the box to shut the option schemes down.
  PS- Rowan's pass game has sprung to life in the past few weeks.
Taste It 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 14, 2006, 12:54:37 PM
Per DJ DLC's comments on the NJAC board, if Bart can't runneth the ball, they areth screwed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 14, 2006, 01:13:17 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 13, 2006, 09:17:50 PM
Thanks Tags and thanks RU Fan.  RU Fan really has some very impressive negative karma.  I got most of mine from the LL last year after Rowan beat down Union.

CK

RowanTexan .............

+K to you for just being a Rowan Fan! ;)...... plus you need all of the Karma  help you can get!

I think my karma situation is due mainly to the fact that some people just don't like to hear the truth! 8)

I'm really a nice guy ... ;D...  ask my pet snake!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 14, 2006, 01:27:55 PM
my vote goes for Hobart. Ever the gladiators during Van Grohousen's playing days, the Statesmen have fought long and hard to break out on the national scene. Union has done it, RPI has done it, and of course Rowan and Ithaca have done it. Nothing against the other squads, just telling you where my loyalty lies in the '06.

Go Hobart.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 14, 2006, 01:33:38 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 14, 2006, 11:44:39 AM
Rowan wins!  They have a near impenetrable defense.  Most teams will come out with 50 yards rushing on the day. When you are forced to throw against some good secondary players they are just going to sit and wait.  Their D Line and Lb's will T Off on most O Lines and just beat most teams brains out.
   Offensively, they run the spread Option.  They have a limitied playbook like SC, but each play is like 3 in 1 because they are all "Reads on the go".  Zone Option, Speed Option, QB Counter Tre, and a ball control pass game is what they will do.  If they get the short passing game going(X Factor), No defense will be able to put enough guys in the box to shut the option schemes down.
  PS- Rowan's pass game has sprung to life in the past few weeks.
Taste It 

xreddragon77:

Stop it, you're killing me!  You're forcing me to change my feelings about Cortland fans. 

To be serious for a moment (wow, that's a strange feeling), I also agree that you guys got royaly screwed by the NCAA selection committee. 

Congrats to Cortland on what they've achieved this year.  Now go out an kick RPI's ass.  Show'em what the NJAC is all about. ;)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 14, 2006, 01:36:42 PM
Quote from: Baron Dieter Van Grohausen IX - Commander of the Schenectady Armada on November 14, 2006, 01:27:55 PM
my vote goes for Hobart. Ever the gladiators during Van Grohousen's playing days, the Statesmen have fought long and hard to break out on the national scene. Union has done it, RPI has done it, and of course Rowan and Ithaca have done it. Nothing against the other squads, just telling you where my loyalty lies in the '06.

Go Hobart.

Baron - DJ DLC hopeth you be right.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 14, 2006, 02:48:12 PM
RU Fan,
Thanx.  It just happens to be what it beeeeeees.  The truth!
Taste It
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2006, 09:46:23 PM
Here's the way Todays poll was answered!:

Wilkes   2 (6.9%)
Springfield   5 (17.2%)
St. John Fisher   7 (24.1%)
Rowan   8 (27.6%)
Hobart   1 (3.4%)
Union   3 (10.3%)
Curry   3 (10.3%)
Washington and Lee   0 (0%)


Rowan and Fisher the clear Favorites..... Poor Washington and Lee! 

Next poll to come shortly!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACguy on November 14, 2006, 10:48:53 PM
who asked for the wilkes fan? I'M HERE!!!! ;)

ive been checkin on the MAC board sorry ive been missin out here...

but I must say to the Rowan posters... there will be no repeat if they have to play Wilkes again... Wilkes wins the East is my prediction (obviously i'm a wilkes fan)

nothin against Rowan just they blew us out last year so i need to give somethin back to them haha...

my predictions.... Wilkes over Washington and Lee (17-7), Rowan gets one win this year over Hobart (14-10), Union loses to St. John Fisher (34-31), Springfield over Curry (38-21).

then... Wilkes OVER ROWAN(17-14, I'll be nice), Springfield over St. John Fisher (28-24)

then... Wilkes over Springfield (20-10)

then... Wilkes AT Mount Union and I'll worry about that in a few weeks...

these are not guarantees so please dont anyone get mad (except rowan fans  ;) haha) but i have no problem with fun arguments of my predictions  ;D

GOOOOOO COLONELS!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 14, 2006, 11:03:18 PM
Quote from: MACguy on November 14, 2006, 10:48:53 PM
who asked for the wilkes fan? I'M HERE!!!! ;)

ive been checkin on the MAC board sorry ive been missin out here...

but I must say to the Rowan posters... there will be no repeat if they have to play Wilkes again... Wilkes wins the East is my prediction (obviously i'm a wilkes fan)

nothin against Rowan just they blew us out last year so i need to give somethin back to them haha...

my predictions.... Wilkes over Washington and Lee (17-7), Rowan gets one win this year over Hobart (14-10), Union loses to St. John Fisher (34-31), Springfield over Curry (38-21).

then... Wilkes OVER ROWAN(17-14, I'll be nice), Springfield over St. John Fisher (28-24)

then... Wilkes over Springfield (20-10)

then... Wilkes AT Mount Union and I'll worry about that in a few weeks...

these are not guarantees so please dont anyone get mad (except rowan fans  ;) haha) but i have no problem with fun arguments of my predictions  ;D

GOOOOOO COLONELS!!!!!!!!

About time Mac - almost missed the boat!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACguy on November 15, 2006, 12:45:25 AM
u'll be hearin plenty from me... provided we keep winning haha... not that im a sore loser, just that once were out... i wont wanna be hearin comments like... i told ya so haha... but someone help me get my karma up... i didnt think i posted that bad of things to be in the negatives... what do i have to say... ROWAN WILL WIN!!!! (that should do it)

but no they wont, rematch at Ralston Field, cant wait for the PROFS to be in town.... GO COLONELS!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 12:52:46 AM
Glad to see Wlikes Faithful on here finally.   Being the top team in the region, you should have at least one representative... even Curry has Representatives.  Washington and Lee haven't had anyone come over from what I've noticed...Guess they are stuck on the ODAC Board!

Welcome and good luck to your team (One That I know little about but am prepared to learn this coming saturday!)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 15, 2006, 01:11:17 PM
Quote from: MACguy on November 14, 2006, 10:48:53 PM
who asked for the wilkes fan? I'M HERE!!!! ;)

ive been checkin on the MAC board sorry ive been missin out here...

but I must say to the Rowan posters... there will be no repeat if they have to play Wilkes again... Wilkes wins the East is my prediction (obviously i'm a wilkes fan)

nothin against Rowan just they blew us out last year so i need to give somethin back to them haha...

my predictions.... Wilkes over Washington and Lee (17-7), Rowan gets one win this year over Hobart (14-10), Union loses to St. John Fisher (34-31), Springfield over Curry (38-21).

then... Wilkes OVER ROWAN(17-14, I'll be nice), Springfield over St. John Fisher (28-24)

then... Wilkes over Springfield (20-10)

then... Wilkes AT Mount Union and I'll worry about that in a few weeks...

these are not guarantees so please dont anyone get mad (except rowan fans  ;) haha) but i have no problem with fun arguments of my predictions  ;D

GOOOOOO COLONELS!!!!!!!!

Macguy

Why don't you use your real name ..... Walt Disney ... because after that post, you should have "When You Wish Upon A Star" playing in the background.

If both teams get there, do you really think that the Wilkes O will be effective against the Prof D ..... and that your D will be able to stop Orihel & Company?  Like I said, "When You Wish Upon A Star" ;) 

You just keep on thinking whatever makes you feel good. 8)

Oh, by the way, if the game does happen, it will be interesting to see, after the DelVal fiasco, how the Wilkes security handles your, as another Wilkes fan recently posted,  "friendly crowd".  They'll be a bunch of blue-collar, hard-core Prof fans coming up to Wilkes-Barre; all of whom who will  have very little tolerance for being "messed" with by your "friendly" fans.  In fact, I hope that the "friendly fans" also try to "mess" with the RU players as that will only piss them off and make them even more determined.

P.S.:  This is one of my "fun" arguments!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: radiomike on November 15, 2006, 05:40:37 PM
Compiling a list of streams...is anyone going to do streaming video of the games this weekend? There is audio galore.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 05:50:42 PM
Quote from: radiomike on November 15, 2006, 05:40:37 PM
Compiling a list of streams...is anyone going to do streaming video of the games this weekend? There is audio galore.

FYI:  Union is not on WABY/Saratogamoon.com this weekend.  We'll be on WRUC (89.7FM) and www.teamline.cc instead.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACguy on November 15, 2006, 06:57:20 PM
Im gonna wish upon a star
Nothing else has worked thus far
wondering dancing spec of light
i wish for a rematch, a Wilkes-Rowan fight

ahh, i knew i would get someone mad, i try to have fun and people get upset... but thats ok, that shows you have some doubts... your not positive if your team can win against wilkes and thats why my post upset you. Let me start by saying I did not want to make anyone mad like i stated in my post.  it was simply fun. rowan stomped us last year so i thought i would direct my post (not completely) at them. But hey, in my predictions i gave u one win didnt i..... i wonder how mad u would have been if i said u would lose to hobart cuz thats still possible too...
but i have no doubt in my mind that the wilkes D will stop Orihel and Company... nothing against Orihel, ive seen him, hes great. But the others around him aren't the Rowan of old. Good, but not the same. Then the O. The thing i love about our offense is it has so many weapons. From QB to RB to TE and Wr to Wr, anyone can get the ball and make things happen. The only thing that worries me is yes, that Rown D is awesome. The numbers they have allowed... simply amazing... its just that... NO, Rowan will not beat Wilkes...
and i hope ur not serious about ur not taking **** from our fans and people getting pissed off and all that bla bla bla... because thats not football... the game is for the players on the field, not for the fans to be fighting, and our fans know that, they just like to talk a lot... opposing fans are more than welcome to try to get into the heads of the home team as well... its all in fun, because once the day is over, your not going to be thinking about some jackass you saw at a football game talkin smack.... if the Wilkes fans really bother you that much, just think to yourself what i was taught growing up....
"sticks and stoned may break my bones but words will never hurt me"

Good Luck to all... Yes, even Rowan
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...

Not used to talking football frank?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 07:50:48 PM
Quote from: MACguy on November 15, 2006, 06:57:20 PM
Im gonna wish upon a star
Nothing else has worked thus far
wondering dancing spec of light
i wish for a rematch, a Wilkes-Rowan fight

ahh, i knew i would get someone mad, i try to have fun and people get upset... but thats ok, that shows you have some doubts... your not positive if your team can win against wilkes and thats why my post upset you. Let me start by saying I did not want to make anyone mad like i stated in my post.  it was simply fun. rowan stomped us last year so i thought i would direct my post (not completely) at them. But hey, in my predictions i gave u one win didnt i..... i wonder how mad u would have been if i said u would lose to hobart cuz thats still possible too...
but i have no doubt in my mind that the wilkes D will stop Orihel and Company... nothing against Orihel, ive seen him, hes great. But the others around him aren't the Rowan of old. Good, but not the same. Then the O. The thing i love about our offense is it has so many weapons. From QB to RB to TE and Wr to Wr, anyone can get the ball and make things happen. The only thing that worries me is yes, that Rown D is awesome. The numbers they have allowed... simply amazing... its just that... NO, Rowan will not beat Wilkes...
and i hope ur not serious about ur not taking **** from our fans and people getting pissed off and all that bla bla bla... because thats not football... the game is for the players on the field, not for the fans to be fighting, and our fans know that, they just like to talk a lot... opposing fans are more than welcome to try to get into the heads of the home team as well... its all in fun, because once the day is over, your not going to be thinking about some jackass you saw at a football game talkin smack.... if the Wilkes fans really bother you that much, just think to yourself what i was taught growing up....
"sticks and stoned may break my bones but words will never hurt me"

Good Luck to all... Yes, even Rowan

Is this guy for real?  Doesn't he realize all the weapons he's talking about on Wilkes O came against other MAC teams and not against a D like ours?  My old high school could compete in that conference.  Plus, Im not so sure Wilkes will get out of the first round to even face Rowan.

CK

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 07:54:16 PM
I agree.  Im picking Wilkes to lose in the first round...........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 07:55:57 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 07:54:16 PM
I agree.  Im picking Wilkes to lose in the first round...........

You are a smart man Utah

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 08:01:49 PM
Ive Rowan and SJF matching up in the East Finals....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...

Not used to talking football frank?

Football is fine.  Prefer realistic football, though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...

Not used to talking football frank?

Football is fine.  Prefer realistic football, though.

so you wanna talk about how badly fisher is going to beat union
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:56:05 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...

Not used to talking football frank?

Football is fine.  Prefer realistic football, though.

so you wanna talk about how badly fisher is going to beat union

Only if you think you can do it without some semblance of TRASH TALKING. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...

Not used to talking football frank?

Football is fine.  Prefer realistic football, though.

Tell me, what is unrealistic about what I said....

Unions D-line is undersized compared to the SJF O-line....

SJFs offense has done EXTREMELY well vs the 3-4 front....

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:57:47 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 06:03:22 PM
Union guys....

How is their D-line? 

SJF has prided themselves on great offensive line play the past 4-5 seasons and has dominated some very good D-lines, especially when running the ball.

SJF's O-line averages 6'2" and 285lbs

Union's D-line has a pretty decent sized NT but their DE's are a bit smallish at 245 and 255....

Union should consider bringing up another defender to stop the SJF running game, SJF rips apart teams w/ 3-4 Defenses.....

YAWN...

Not used to talking football frank?

Football is fine.  Prefer realistic football, though.

Tell me, what is unrealistic about what I said....

Unions D-line is undersized compared to the SJF O-line....

SJFs offense has done EXTREMELY well vs the 3-4 front....



Union's run defense wasn't the problem this season.  Speed and agility matter as much as size in the center of the field.  It's called "contain."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 08:59:18 PM
but if your d line is getting rolled over by the o-line by the time your linebackers stop the RB he will be gaining 5 or 6 yards a carry and you can't stop a team like that
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:00:07 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 08:59:18 PM
but if your d line is getting rolled over by the o-line by the time your linebackers stop the RB he will be gaining 5 or 6 yards a carry and you can't stop a team like that

Talk to Hobart about Union's run defense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Llamaguy on November 15, 2006, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 12:52:46 AM
Glad to see Wlikes Faithful on here finally.   Being the top team in the region, you should have at least one representative... even Curry has Representatives.  Washington and Lee haven't had anyone come over from what I've noticed...Guess they are stuck on the ODAC Board!
Welcome and good luck to your team (One That I know little about but am prepared to learn this coming saturday!)

Nope the W&L folks aren't on the ODAC board either. They are new to posting after the 10th game of the season I guess. I had planned to come up to the Wilkes/W&L game but thought it would look a little weird having a Bridgewater fan be the only one supporting the Generals. :o Guess I'll slide down to Newport News to see the CNU - W&J battle with about 5000 other fans. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:01:51 PM
but hobart doesn't have the o-line or the running back to match fisher, and I think everyone has said that Hobart is overrated this year
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:02:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 08:57:47 PM

Union's run defense wasn't the problem this season.  Speed and agility matter as much as size in the center of the field.  It's called "contain."

Speed and agility dont mean much if your lying on your back...

Seriously though, this line isnt just a bunch of fat slobs, these guys are very athletic and are extremely effective in the open space.  

They have delt with the "smaller" more "agile" players all year long and have not had a problem with those type of players....

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:01:51 PM
but hobart doesn't have the o-line or the running back to match fisher, and I think everyone has said that Hobart is overrated this year

Oh, yeah, 8-1 is overrated.  Pool C bid denotes overrated.  Maybe SJF is good on the run and the O-Line, but back it up with something more legit than, "Our O-Line outweighs yours by 50lbs man!"  Chances are, that scenario has existed in many games each team has played this season -- yet, both won their games.  Hmmmmm.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:07:22 PM
I mean i think we can all agree that the story of this game is not the defense it's all about the offense and it's gonna be whose defense can make the first stop... Fisher's line is and always has been very very skilled...these guys are big but are also some of the best athletes on the team
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:09:07 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:07:22 PM
I mean i think we can all agree that the story of this game is not the defense it's all about the offense and it's gonna be whose defense can make the first stop... Fisher's line is and always has been very very skilled...these guys are big but are also some of the best athletes on the team

If SJF lacks an efficient pass attack, this is going to be a short game.  I dare SJF to win the game up the gut down-in and down-out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:10:35 PM
so you obviously don't know anything about fisher then... because while they have one of the best RB's in d3... Kramer is no slouch, and has the ability to win games
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:10:35 PM
so you obviously don't know anything about fisher then... because while they have one of the best RB's in d3... Kramer is no slouch, and has the ability to win games

The way you state it, he hasn't really been tested.  Very tentative statement, Superman.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:10:35 PM
so you obviously don't know anything about fisher then... because while they have one of the best RB's in d3... Kramer is no slouch, and has the ability to win games

Sounds like you have a bunch of big boys up front.  But what if the more athletic Union D stuffs you, can you win through the air? I doubt it.

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:09:07 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:07:22 PM
I mean i think we can all agree that the story of this game is not the defense it's all about the offense and it's gonna be whose defense can make the first stop... Fisher's line is and always has been very very skilled...these guys are big but are also some of the best athletes on the team

If SJF lacks an efficient pass attack, this is going to be a short game.  I dare SJF to win the game up the gut down-in and down-out.

Kramer is one of the most efficient QB's in the East; he has a 171. 78 QB rating, he completes 65% of his passes and has 16 tds and only 1 INT... this is in 7 starts as well mind you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 09:17:18 PM
I could put up those QB numbers against the teams they've played.

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:18:17 PM
so you could put those numbers up vs. UofR, brockport, Ithaca, Springfield and Alfred.... hmmm like to see you try
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 09:17:18 PM
I could put up those QB numbers against the teams they've played.

CK

You should play QB for Rowan then, because everyone knows that their offense blows this year...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 09:18:42 PM
yup

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 09:20:02 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 09:17:18 PM
I could put up those QB numbers against the teams they've played.

CK

You should play QB for Rowan then, because everyone knows that their offense blows this year...

Too late my eligibility ended in 1993- I said I could

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Ha and what has your QB done this year?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Ha and what has your QB done this year?

As long as he keeps his INTs down and makes a few key conversions during the game, Union has the run game.  Marotti rarely has two bad games in a row.  Sorry for SJF that last week was a bad game for him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:24:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Ha and what has your QB done this year?

Wow, Union's QB is horrid....

Efficiency Rating:114.42
INT: 11  
Comp %: 49.8
TD: 9  

You can go on and on about not having his #1 reciever, but SJF doesnt have a true #1 this year and SJF's QB is more effficient and effective....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Ha and what has your QB done this year?

As long as he keeps his INTs down and makes a few key conversions during the game, Union has the run game.  Marotti rarely has two bad games in a row.  Sorry for SJF that last week was a bad game for him.

and ithaca never gives up 34 points in the second half
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:26:16 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:24:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Ha and what has your QB done this year?

Wow, Union's QB is horrid....

Efficiency Rating:114.42
INT: 11  
Comp %: 49.8
TD: 9  

You can go on and on about not having his #1 reciever, but SJF doesnt have a true #1 this year and SJF's QB is more effficient and effective....

Why don't you give ALL his stats.  Perhaps, that would put things in better perspective.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:28:56 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:26:16 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:24:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Ha and what has your QB done this year?

Wow, Union's QB is horrid....

Efficiency Rating:114.42
INT: 11  
Comp %: 49.8
TD: 9  

You can go on and on about not having his #1 reciever, but SJF doesnt have a true #1 this year and SJF's QB is more effficient and effective....

Why don't you give ALL his stats.  Perhaps, that would put things in better perspective.

What his yardage? Big deal he throws for 197 yds a game (or something like that).....

Yardage doesnt win you games, TDs and no turnovers do....

Thats something that he's got issues with....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:31:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:16:35 PM
he came in the second half of the UofR game with fisher losing 7-6 final score Fisher 30-10

season stats
Rob Kramer      games- 9 passer rating- 171.78 att-comps-pics  150-98-1  comp. %  65.3  yards- 1296   TD-16 long  65 ypg 144.0


140 yds/gm won't get it done Saturday.  He needs a 200-250yd performance for SJF to beat Union.

Frank & Texan-

Love the enthusiasm but Kramer doesn't need any more than he usually gets through the air. Union won't be able to stop Fisher's running game...

And Union won't put up more than 20 pts so it won't really matter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:35:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Don't need a bare assertion. This isn't hobart, or U of R, or Merchant Marine Frank... Fisher will run all over this defense - I can't wait to address this saturday afternoon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:36:41 PM
doesn't matter if you throw for those 50 extra yards because if you throw the pic alll of those yards are gone
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:38:25 PM
I think Frank is just taking out his frustration that both LL teams are going to lose this week.

Lets go easy on him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:38:44 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:35:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Don't need a bare assertion. This isn't hobart, or U of R, or Merchant Marine Frank... Fisher will run all over this defense - I can't wait to address this saturday afternoon.

Yes, please address it to:

Rochester City Dump
Rochester, New York

I'm sure it will find its way there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:36:41 PM
doesn't matter if you throw for those 50 extra yards because if you throw the pic alll of those yards are gone

Re-read my post and see that I already discussed what the 50 yards mean.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:40:18 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:38:44 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:35:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Don't need a bare assertion. This isn't hobart, or U of R, or Merchant Marine Frank... Fisher will run all over this defense - I can't wait to address this saturday afternoon.

Yes, please address it to:

Rochester City Dump
Rochester, New York

I'm sure it will find its way there.

I think I'll have it sent to:

Fisher 40 - Union 20
Youhavenoshot, Saturday
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Last time I checked frank anytime a QB has more INT's than TD's its usually considered bad, anytime a QB completes less than 50% of his passes it is usually considered bad as well....

Any way you look at it frank his numbers are horrid and ther is no argument about that...

We played springfield as well...

Take that game out and then look at our numbers too frank...


FYI if you do take out the Springfield game SJF is only allowing 6.9 pts per game and 58yds rushing allowed per game....and in case you didnt know that's kind of sick!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:41:24 PM
ok I say we lay off of poor old frank now... we got our point across
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 09:41:30 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:40:18 PM


I think I'll have it sent to:

Fisher 40 - Union 20
Youhavenoshot, Saturday

I'm sorry Frank but, lol, that is funny..."Youhavenoshot, Saturday"

+1 to Tags
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:45:25 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Last time I checked frank anytime a QB has more INT's than TD's its usually considered bad, anytime a QB completes less than 50% of his passes it is usually considered bad as well....

Any way you look at it frank his numbers are horrid and ther is no argument about that...

We played springfield as well...

Take that game out and then look at our numbers too frank...


FYI if you do take out the Springfield game SJF is only allowing 6.9 pts per game and 58yds rushing allowed per game....and in case you didnt know that's kind of sick!

INT/TD ratio makes no difference when your RB is running 5 TDs per game.  The RB finished many drives. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:45:25 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Last time I checked frank anytime a QB has more INT's than TD's its usually considered bad, anytime a QB completes less than 50% of his passes it is usually considered bad as well....

Any way you look at it frank his numbers are horrid and ther is no argument about that...

We played springfield as well...

Take that game out and then look at our numbers too frank...


FYI if you do take out the Springfield game SJF is only allowing 6.9 pts per game and 58yds rushing allowed per game....and in case you didnt know that's kind of sick!

INT/TD ratio makes no difference when your RB is running 5 TDs per game.  The RB finished many drives. 

He'll be lucky to have 1TD. Reference my prediction a few posts back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:48:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:45:25 PM


INT/TD ratio makes no difference when your RB is running 5 TDs per game.  The RB finished many drives. 

HUH? when did Union's RB average 5 TD's a game for a season?

Seriously Frank your reaching here....

TD/INT ration makes a world of difference, especially in the Playoffs....


Oh and BTW, Unions RB isnt even the best RB in NY......

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:50:50 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:45:25 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:33:31 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 09:29:28 PM
PASSING         GP   Effic Cmp-Att-Int   Pct  Yds  TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Marotti  9  114.42 121-243-11   49.8 1778   9  62 197.6


53 yards (Marotti minus Kramer) is a drive, last time I checked.  So, Marotti compensates for an INT with a TD drive inside his numbers.  And again, Tags, toss out the Springfield game and look at Union's rush defense.  Go ahead, I'll give you a couple hours to come up with another bare assertion while you look.

Last time I checked frank anytime a QB has more INT's than TD's its usually considered bad, anytime a QB completes less than 50% of his passes it is usually considered bad as well....

Any way you look at it frank his numbers are horrid and ther is no argument about that...

We played springfield as well...

Take that game out and then look at our numbers too frank...


FYI if you do take out the Springfield game SJF is only allowing 6.9 pts per game and 58yds rushing allowed per game....and in case you didnt know that's kind of sick!

INT/TD ratio makes no difference when your RB is running 5 TDs per game.  The RB finished many drives. 

He'll be lucky to have 1TD. Reference my prediction a few posts back.

I did.  Union has no such RB.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:51:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:48:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:45:25 PM


INT/TD ratio makes no difference when your RB is running 5 TDs per game.  The RB finished many drives. 

HUH? when did Union's RB average 5 TD's a game for a season?

Seriously Frank your reaching here....

TD/INT ration makes a world of difference, especially in the Playoffs....


Oh and BTW, Unions RB isnt even the best RB in NY......



Saturday, he will be.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:50:50 PM
I did.  Union has no such RB.

Your going to cry about people not spelling a name right that has about 15 A's and I's in it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington

Yeah, it's called respect.  I think we forget that we don't play the game -- these guys do.  The least you can do is get the names right if you're going to insult them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:50:50 PM
I did.  Union has no such RB.

Your going to cry about people not spelling a name right that has about 15 A's and I's in it?

If I can pronounce it 20 times per game, you can spell it once.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington

Yeah, it's called respect.  I think we forget that we don't play the game -- these guys do.  The least you can do is get the names right if you're going to insult them.

Wow, you need a hug.

I spelled the last letter in their name wrong from memory - My humble apologies Frank.

And who is insulting? I said they'll be shut down, not they are bad students who steal from the school store.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 09:58:21 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:50:50 PM
I did.  Union has no such RB.

Your going to cry about people not spelling a name right that has about 15 A's and I's in it?

If I can pronounce it 20 times per game, you can spell it once.

I didnt spell anything....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:59:45 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:58:21 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:50:50 PM
I did.  Union has no such RB.

Your going to cry about people not spelling a name right that has about 15 A's and I's in it?

If I can pronounce it 20 times per game, you can spell it once.

I didnt spell anything....


Frank you see these  guys every game. I read their name once and I'm supposed to know it? Give me a break, you're being ridiculous.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:00:27 PM
The Frank vs. Fisher fight rambles on...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington

Yeah, it's called respect.  I think we forget that we don't play the game -- these guys do.  The least you can do is get the names right if you're going to insult them.

Wow, you need a hug.

I spelled the last letter in their name wrong from memory - My humble apologies Frank.

And who is insulting? I said they'll be shut down, not they are bad students who steal from the school store.

It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:01:00 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:00:27 PM
The Frank vs. Fisher fight rambles on...

Im pulling out, of the fight that is, 4AM comes mighty early....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:02:11 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.

Actually SJF runs a No-Huddle Spread offense.....

If you knew anything at all, you'd know that UR's Offensive CO was SJF's Offensive CO for the previous 4 seasons and run the EXACT SAME OFFENSE!!!!!!!!

Good night, Case Closed....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington

Yeah, it's called respect.  I think we forget that we don't play the game -- these guys do.  The least you can do is get the names right if you're going to insult them.

Wow, you need a hug.

I spelled the last letter in their name wrong from memory - My humble apologies Frank.

And who is insulting? I said they'll be shut down, not they are bad students who steal from the school store.

It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.

The only fluff I'm seeing are the teams in the LL.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:02:47 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington

Yeah, it's called respect.  I think we forget that we don't play the game -- these guys do.  The least you can do is get the names right if you're going to insult them.

Wow, you need a hug.

I spelled the last letter in their name wrong from memory - My humble apologies Frank.

And who is insulting? I said they'll be shut down, not they are bad students who steal from the school store.

It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.

No such fluff was spoken from the Ithaca side Frank.  At least not the "Our team is bigger than yours so we are going to run all over you all day" fluff......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:03:08 PM
MMMMMMMMMMM Flufffffffffffffffffffff
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:03:30 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:02:11 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.

Actually SJF runs a No-Huddle Spread offense.....

Good night, Case Closed....

Define that, Upstate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:04:19 PM
There was no "our team is bigger than yours so we'll run" comment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:05:07 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:03:30 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:02:11 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.

Actually SJF runs a No-Huddle Spread offense.....

Good night, Case Closed....

Define that, Upstate.

Define what?

SJF runs the spread, its the same offense you saw vs UR except with way better players....

UR's OC this year was SJF's OC the previous 4 years....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:06:10 PM
Its actually wierd Frank, the SJF o-line lines right up on the ball after every play.  The recievers and backs kind of bunch up and all 11 players look to the sideline at the line of scrimmage for the play.  then the qb goes up under center and snaps it.  Kind of wierd when they play teams whose defensive calls are also looked to the sideline for.  Basically you have 22 guys right on the ball looking at their respective sides for the coaches call.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:06:38 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:04:19 PM
There was no "our team is bigger than yours so we'll run" comment.

Yeah all I said was that SJF's line averaged 285 and that Union only has one guy over 255lbs...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 15, 2006, 10:06:53 PM
I think its Fisher 35 Rossi 31 at this point entering the 4th quarter.

CK

very entertaining!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:06:38 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:04:19 PM
There was no "our team is bigger than yours so we'll run" comment.

Yeah all I said was that SJF's line averaged 285 and that Union only has one guy over 255lbs...

I thought you were pulling out?  I guess Frank will be having your baby in 9 months....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:06:10 PM
Its actually wierd Frank, the SJF o-line lines right up on the ball after every play.  The recievers and backs kind of bunch up and all 11 players look to the sideline at the line of scrimmage for the play.  then the qb goes up under center and snaps it.  Kind of wierd when they play teams whose defensive calls are also looked to the sideline for.  Basically you have 22 guys right on the ball looking at their respective sides for the coaches call.



Yeah basically what he said....

SJF runs the spread offense, lots of 3/4 WR sets, shot gun and stuff but still manages to run for 260yds a game....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:00:49 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 09:44:26 PM
Speaking of Fisher's Defense... I am predicting this day from their two studs:

Arcidiacano - 25 carries 90 yds 1TD

Angiletti - 6 catches 80 yds 1TD

Interesting, neither of those guys are even on Union's roster.  That means Union will be going VERY deep into its already deep bench if those are the players I'll be calling.

That's it Frank, You're fired for not knowing your own roster. I'll grant you I did not spell their names correctly.

1 Tom  Arcidiacono  RB 6'0 210 Sr. Castleton,NY/Columbia

23 Steve  Angiletta  WR 6'0 185 Sr. Plantsville,CT/Southington

Yeah, it's called respect.  I think we forget that we don't play the game -- these guys do.  The least you can do is get the names right if you're going to insult them.

Wow, you need a hug.

I spelled the last letter in their name wrong from memory - My humble apologies Frank.

And who is insulting? I said they'll be shut down, not they are bad students who steal from the school store.

It's funny.  This is the same fluff Ithaca fans used to speak about LL teams before Ithaca lost twice to Union - once in the ECACs and once in the NCAAs.  If SJF played a quasi-spread or potent Springfield-esque offense, I'd give them more of a shot in this game.  That was the common bond between the Springfield and RPI losses and the eventual F&M and Rochester comebacks (when the offenses played more spread).  SJF isn't the team that will eliminate Union from the playoffs.  Case closed.  Good night.

The only fluff I'm seeing are the teams in the LL.

So you think the top 4 E8 teams would easily take down Union,Hobart, RPI, and Rochester?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:10:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 08:59:18 PM
but if your d line is getting rolled over by the o-line by the time your linebackers stop the RB he will be gaining 5 or 6 yards a carry and you can't stop a team like that

Im not going through all the SJF posts but it was inferred that Union better do something to stop SJF's big oline as they are big and tear up 3-4 defenses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:10:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:06:10 PM
Its actually wierd Frank, the SJF o-line lines right up on the ball after every play.  The recievers and backs kind of bunch up and all 11 players look to the sideline at the line of scrimmage for the play.  then the qb goes up under center and snaps it.  Kind of wierd when they play teams whose defensive calls are also looked to the sideline for.  Basically you have 22 guys right on the ball looking at their respective sides for the coaches call.



Yeah basically what he said....

SJF runs the spread offense, lots of 3/4 WR sets, shot gun and stuff but still manages to run for 260yds a game....

You guys just explained two completely different offenses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:10:32 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:08:32 PM
So you think the top 4 E8 teams would easily take down Union,Hobart, RPI, and Rochester?


I say it would be to close, to flat out say one league is better than the other...



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:11:11 PM
well we already figured out that Alfred beat hobart Fisher beat UofR and springfield beat union
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:11:43 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:11:11 PM
well we already figured out that Alfred beat hobart Fisher beat UofR and springfield beat union

Hobart beat Alfred numbnuts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:11:49 PM
Alfred Didn't beat Hobart.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACguy on November 15, 2006, 10:12:17 PM
ok ok ok... enough from rowan for right now... let us worry about washington and lee and u worry about hobart... after that... we'll talk and have our fun...

but dont put ur money on wilkes losing in the first round... cuz u'll lose

but as for teams in the MAC... im not arguing because were not in ur conference... which should make u realize... ur not in the MAC... there are good teams everywhere... ur opinion means nothing...

GO COLONELS... **THE #1 SEED**
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:11:43 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:11:11 PM
well we already figured out that Alfred beat hobart Fisher beat UofR and springfield beat union

Hobart beat Alfred numbnuts.

No that was after Upstate pulled out...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
Frank lets be serious for a moment.

You will have to hold Fisher under 30 to win - can you do that? They're AVERAGING 41 points a game.

Say you hold them to 30, well below their average. You'll have to put up more than 30 - Can you do that? They're giving up 12 points a game & that includes 55 from Sharpe & Co.


And finally, it's at Growney... Not looking good my friend, not looking good at all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:10:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:06:10 PM
Its actually wierd Frank, the SJF o-line lines right up on the ball after every play.  The recievers and backs kind of bunch up and all 11 players look to the sideline at the line of scrimmage for the play.  then the qb goes up under center and snaps it.  Kind of wierd when they play teams whose defensive calls are also looked to the sideline for.  Basically you have 22 guys right on the ball looking at their respective sides for the coaches call.



Yeah basically what he said....

SJF runs the spread offense, lots of 3/4 WR sets, shot gun and stuff but still manages to run for 260yds a game....

You guys just explained two completely different offenses.

Frank they only bunch up to get the play from the sideline, then they spread out.  A lot of one back sets and 3-4 WR sets and a good, big TE.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:13:07 PM
that was a typo sorry... I'm not perfect....  no disrespect to hobart
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:13:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:10:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:08:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:06:10 PM
Its actually wierd Frank, the SJF o-line lines right up on the ball after every play.  The recievers and backs kind of bunch up and all 11 players look to the sideline at the line of scrimmage for the play.  then the qb goes up under center and snaps it.  Kind of wierd when they play teams whose defensive calls are also looked to the sideline for.  Basically you have 22 guys right on the ball looking at their respective sides for the coaches call.



Yeah basically what he said....

SJF runs the spread offense, lots of 3/4 WR sets, shot gun and stuff but still manages to run for 260yds a game....

You guys just explained two completely different offenses.

Nope...

Its the best of both worlds frank, get used to it....

SJF will not huddle the entire game....

They will spread you out w/ 3 and 4 WR sets from the shotgun or go with a 3 back 2 TE formation, this offense is extremely balanced and diverse....

They will run on you from their 3/4 WR sets or in a conventional 2 WR/TE/2RB packages...

It is a No-Huddle, Spread offense that will run it down your throat....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:14:38 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
Frank lets be serious for a moment.

You will have to hold Fisher under 30 to win - can you do that? They're AVERAGING 41 points a game.

Say you hold them to 30, well below their average. You'll have to put up more than 30 - Can you do that? They're giving up 12 points a game & that includes 55 from Sharpe & Co.


And finally, it's at Growney... Not looking good my friend, not looking good at all.

Union won two shootouts with the same core offense last year that went into the 40s and 50s against extremely good teams.  So, the "need to hold them under 30" argument has no bearing at all.  However, even if it did, I like what you guys have written tonight in terms of confirming to me that Union's defense will have one of its best days all season.  I'm gonna sleep much better with that in my head.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:17:59 PM
Union better win, I picked them on my pick 'em  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:17:59 PM
Union better win, I picked them on my pick 'em  :P

Damn you portgrad!!! I thought better of you  8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:19:08 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:17:59 PM
Union better win, I picked them on my pick 'em  :P

Damn you portgrad!!! I thought better of you  8)

Using A gut feeling, this is really one game I couldn't decide on.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:22:13 PM
port I agree with you this is going to be an awesome game, but you gotta give fisher the credit for the homefield
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:25:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:22:13 PM
port I agree with you this is going to be an awesome game, but you gotta give fisher the credit for the homefield

I agree that homefield could make a difference.  Like I said, my pick was based on a gut feeling, not any stark advantage for either team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:25:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:22:13 PM
port I agree with you this is going to be an awesome game, but you gotta give fisher the credit for the homefield

I agree that homefield could make a difference.  Like I said, my pick was based on a gut feeling, not any stark advantage for either team.

Same gut feeling that had AU beating SJF?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:25:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:22:13 PM
port I agree with you this is going to be an awesome game, but you gotta give fisher the credit for the homefield

I agree that homefield could make a difference.  Like I said, my pick was based on a gut feeling, not any stark advantage for either team.

Same gut feeling that had AU beating SJF?

Take er easy upstate, ports a good guy. He's just throwing it out there I think without really caring one way or the other.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:27:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:25:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:22:13 PM
port I agree with you this is going to be an awesome game, but you gotta give fisher the credit for the homefield

I agree that homefield could make a difference.  Like I said, my pick was based on a gut feeling, not any stark advantage for either team.

Same gut feeling that had AU beating SJF?

No, that one I actually thought I had a reasoning for, go figure.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:25:14 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:22:13 PM
port I agree with you this is going to be an awesome game, but you gotta give fisher the credit for the homefield

I agree that homefield could make a difference.  Like I said, my pick was based on a gut feeling, not any stark advantage for either team.

Same gut feeling that had AU beating SJF?

Take er easy upstate, ports a good guy. He's just throwing it out there I think without really caring one way or the other.

I know this, ive been around port for a while now....

hell we went to neigboring HS's and he worked with my best man in my wedding down in florida....

Just busting his chops...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:29:35 PM
well if port picked alfred to beat fisher than I'm glad that he picked union
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.

Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:31:27 PM
See it all works out in the end.  

I picked curry too...............oh wait no I didn't, that would be absurd.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:32:13 PM
No harm no foul ...

Figured you were still riled up from the Frank Rossi Esq. conversation.

Haven't heard from him in a few minutes - I'm sure he's pounding out some long winded 23 paragraph response with stats from 1988-Present giving a reason why Union will win Saturday.

Punching out - Talk tomorrow fellas.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:32:55 PM
Frank I think you need to go to Clinton's Ditch and get a beer
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Still waiting on any kind of factual statment from you Frank regarding this weeks match up....

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:33:18 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:32:13 PM
No harm no foul ...

Figured you were still riled up from the Frank Rossi Esq. conversation.

Haven't heard from him in a few minutes - I'm sure he's pounding out some long winded 23 paragraph response with stats from 1988-Present giving a reason why Union will win Saturday.

Punching out - Talk tomorrow fellas.


Nope.  If you read Around the East, you'd know I'm taking care of my pasta and sauce during my pauses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:34:11 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:32:13 PM

Punching out - Talk tomorrow fellas.


I swear this is the 3rd time you've made this claim in the last 5 minutes on 3 different boards....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:34:30 PM
I think both sides have made factual statments, just neither side has been altogether convincing
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:35:16 PM
Has anyone seen both Union and SJF play THIS year?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:34:30 PM
I think both sides have made factual statments, just neither side has been altogether convincing

Fine, be all impartial and stuff....

See where that gets you in life....




Check that, you made it out of NY so I guess your doing ok....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:36:04 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Still waiting on any kind of factual statment from you Frank regarding this weeks match up....



Gave you plenty below, Upstate, including what the QB differential means, the fact that Union's run defense is excellent, why Marotti's TD/INT ratio is misleading, that Marotti doesn't have two bad games in a row historically, what Union's weaknesses have been and why SJF doesn't play well into them...What else do you want from me?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2006, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:35:16 PM
Has anyone seen both Union and SJF play THIS year?

Need to ask the Rochester fans (i dont think there is any) and the Springfield Fans that....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:32:55 PM
Frank I think you need to go to Clinton's Ditch and get a beer

superman is quite knowledgable about the waterin' holes of schenectady, NY. There's some new bar by the train station what's that all about?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:37:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2006, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:34:30 PM
I think both sides have made factual statments, just neither side has been altogether convincing

Fine, be all impartial and stuff....

See where that gets you in life....




Check that, you made it out of NY so I guess your doing ok....

True dat!  I'm not altogether impartial.  I want Hobart to beat Rowan.  However, I don't think it'll happen.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.

Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Here's a fact frank:

Fisher averages 41 points a game.

Union averages 30 points a game.

Neither defense gives up that many, so lets take defenses out of the conversation and say each offense puts up what they normally put up.

Here's another fact - you're running back averages 2.2 TD's a game, not 5.

You're an 11 point underdog in someon else's house. Sleep well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:32:55 PM
Frank I think you need to go to Clinton's Ditch and get a beer

superman is quite knowledgable about the waterin' holes of schenectady, NY. There's some new bar by the train station what's that all about?

Wine and cheese, 'gro.  Wine and cheese.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:39:32 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:37:22 PM
There's some new bar by the train station what's that all about?

Pinhead Susan's? Good joint...RT was there for a big St.Patty's day party. Not sure WHY i was in the Schenectaschizzle for St.Patty's....

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

Never going to happen superman - that place is a dump. That's not even being a prick, I've been there enough times to know that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:40:46 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

do you have tattoos and an earring?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 15, 2006, 10:40:47 PM
yeah i've seen them both.....and i don't think it will be close. I say fisher 31-21 because....UNION SUCKS!  frank, give me some useless history on why marotti hasn't had 2 bad games in a row.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:41:12 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

Gro was never the hockey fan, but grew up about 2 blocks from Union... what are you some kind of doid?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.

Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Here's a fact frank:

Fisher averages 41 points a game.

Union averages 30 points a game.

Neither defense gives up that many, so lets take defenses out of the conversation and say each offense puts up what they normally put up.

Here's another fact - you're running back averages 2.2 TD's a game, not 5.

You're an 11 point underdog in someon else's house. Sleep well.

The 5 was referring to one game.  Sorry if that was misconstrued.  He still is one of the NCAA's leading scorers, esp. when receiving TDs are thrown into the mix.  And suddenly you want to imagine the defenses don't factor in?  Ummm...maybe that's what a Fisher fan would like to do, but when you tout offenses' points per game, it's directly attributable to the defenses' games.  Your post makes no sense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 15, 2006, 10:41:43 PM
I've seen both teams... what do u wanna know
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

Never going to happen superman - that place is a dump. That's not even being a prick, I've been there enough times to know that.

you're STILL here? do I have to go put the effort in now to find your 3 "i'm outta here" posts for tonight?? Just admit you hate to sign off and miss something....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:42:23 PM
no this place is called kathryne o'brynes or something like that it's right next to the train station across from burger king and tags... your making fun of my hometown..... and when they build the new college park across from the old ramada it should make that whole area better
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:42:28 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:39:32 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:37:22 PM
There's some new bar by the train station what's that all about?

Pinhead Susan's? Good joint...RT was there for a big St.Patty's day party. Not sure WHY i was in the Schenectaschizzle for St.Patty's....



Although that is a good place I do agree.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 15, 2006, 10:40:47 PM
yeah i've seen them both.....and i don't think it will be close. I say fisher 31-21 because....UNION SUCKS!  frank, give me some useless history on why marotti hasn't had 2 bad games in a row.

I've called all his games - That's what the fact is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

Never going to happen superman - that place is a dump. That's not even being a prick, I've been there enough times to know that.

Upstate was pulling out, you were punching out, and neither thing has happened!  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:43:03 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.

Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Here's a fact frank:

Fisher averages 41 points a game.

Union averages 30 points a game.

Neither defense gives up that many, so lets take defenses out of the conversation and say each offense puts up what they normally put up.

Here's another fact - you're running back averages 2.2 TD's a game, not 5.

You're an 11 point underdog in someon else's house. Sleep well.

The 5 was referring to one game.  Sorry if that was misconstrued.  He still is one of the NCAA's leading scorers, esp. when receiving TDs are thrown into the mix.  And suddenly you want to imagine the defenses don't factor in?  Ummm...maybe that's what a Fisher fan would like to do, but when you tout offenses' points per game, it's directly attributable to the defenses' games.  Your post makes no sense.

why are you buring cycles on this arguement?? you know you can't reason on this board....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:44:03 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

Never going to happen superman - that place is a dump. That's not even being a prick, I've been there enough times to know that.

Upstate was pulling out, you were punching out, and neither thing has happened!  

no joke....+k to you for that. I thought I was the only one who noticed...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.

Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Here's a fact frank:

Fisher averages 41 points a game.

Union averages 30 points a game.

Neither defense gives up that many, so lets take defenses out of the conversation and say each offense puts up what they normally put up.

Here's another fact - you're running back averages 2.2 TD's a game, not 5.

You're an 11 point underdog in someon else's house. Sleep well.

The 5 was referring to one game.  Sorry if that was misconstrued.  He still is one of the NCAA's leading scorers, esp. when receiving TDs are thrown into the mix.  And suddenly you want to imagine the defenses don't factor in?  Ummm...maybe that's what a Fisher fan would like to do, but when you tout offenses' points per game, it's directly attributable to the defenses' games.  Your post makes no sense.

the defense give up 12 a game frank. And how many receiving td's would you like me to hypothetically add, b/c he has had 1 (one) all year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:44:35 PM
kathryin o bryans... yeah that sounds about right, I knew the place was a "name"... anyone who makes fun of schenectady deserves a size 12 timberland to the nuggets.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
I am a fan of pinhead susans but nothing says schenectady like the Italian festaval that the church has in the union parking lot
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 15, 2006, 10:45:13 PM
hmm fine forget it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:45:24 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:39:11 PM
they are trying to revitalize that area, the Irish place is supposed to be really good... and I've said this a thousand times I live 5 minutes from Union I grew up going to Union hockey games with my dad

Never going to happen superman - that place is a dump. That's not even being a prick, I've been there enough times to know that.

you're STILL here? do I have to go put the effort in now to find your 3 "i'm outta here" posts for tonight?? Just admit you hate to sign off and miss something....

Ha, I always pull that off. I enjoy sports talk more than i do sleeping to get up and work... I imagine you can agree with that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:45:42 PM
well I do have to say that I graduated HS from Amsterdam
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:46:22 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:44:15 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:41:18 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:30:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Believe what you will Frank. Saturday will be here soon enough...

I hope you're clients get more convincing arguments than this from you.

Could you please put forth an argument first, before you throw stones in your glass house, Tags?

I gave you my reasoning frank - you won't hold fisher under 30, and you won't score more than 30. You're two studs won't be all they're cracked up to be vs. this Fisher defense, and it's at Growney.

... All I've heard from you is "oh ya, well, well I've seen it happen before!!!"

Night Frank, all the best.

Wow.  Thank you for showing us the difference between a fact (which was lacking in your entire statement) and opinion (which is not the basis of an argument).  Sleep well.

Here's a fact frank:

Fisher averages 41 points a game.

Union averages 30 points a game.

Neither defense gives up that many, so lets take defenses out of the conversation and say each offense puts up what they normally put up.

Here's another fact - you're running back averages 2.2 TD's a game, not 5.

You're an 11 point underdog in someon else's house. Sleep well.

The 5 was referring to one game.  Sorry if that was misconstrued.  He still is one of the NCAA's leading scorers, esp. when receiving TDs are thrown into the mix.  And suddenly you want to imagine the defenses don't factor in?  Ummm...maybe that's what a Fisher fan would like to do, but when you tout offenses' points per game, it's directly attributable to the defenses' games.  Your post makes no sense.

the defense give up 12 a game frank. And how many receiving td's would you like me to hypothetically add, b/c he has had 1 (one) all year.

good night Tags
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:48:00 PM
"He still is one of the NCAA's leading scorers, esp. when receiving TDs are thrown into the mix"

Pointing out that he only had a single td reception didn't sit well I see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:45:42 PM
well I do have to say that I graduated HS from Amsterdam


kick ass mall there (and I don't mean the Price Chopper plaza)....eeeesh!!!

Although, that burger and ice cream stand on Rt.30 heading toward Perth looks pretty good. What's the name of that joint again??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 10:49:24 PM
grew up in sch'dy... end up in amsterdam... went to SJF? that's a strange path.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:50:29 PM
ummm do you mean Polar Freeze... the best is out on 67 heading to saratoga a place called Cappies... no grew up in Amsterdam ended up in Niskayuna went to SJF.. I still live with the rents
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:50:45 PM
Seriously folks.  Can we stop talking about numbers that dont mean anytyhing and start giving opinions of what weve seen or not seen or at least can predict?  For what its worth, heres my two cents on the game from what Ive seen from Union and SJF over the last 4 years...

1) SJF has consistantly put up points on Ithaca over the last 4 years, although about 6 of those 16 quarters Ithaca made adjustments and shut them down.

2) Union did whatever they wanted to against Ithacas defense last year.  Their QB had one or two real bad, unexplainable throws, but besides that they did what they wanted 3X as much as SJF ever did.

3) SJF is probably the biggest team Union will face this year.

4) A much smaller RPI team beat up on a much bigger SJF team last year.

5) Unions rb, (#1) finds the holes and takes off better than any back SJF had faced the last 4 years.

6) Union looks small in their pads

7) SJF doesnt have a game-breaking WR like they had last year, Union might (Angliettas health?)

8) Unions special teams didnt impress me last year.  Ithaca dominated them in that category.  SJF has great special teams and that might come into play

9) Union is a well coached, well balanced team.  If #1 cant find holes up the middle or off tackle, he will get the ball in other ways (screens, draws, options)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:52:09 PM
Fan of D3, rather than saying what do you want to know, provide some insight into both teams
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:53:28 PM
For the love of God Frank it's all in good fun - loosen up a little.

I know damn well they're both good teams. Fisher is just better ;)

Superman- Have a few fraternity brothers from Amsterdam. Great football school.

And last but not least, I'd like to thank all of you who really care about the post-punchout postings. What is a guy to do, I enjoy the banter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 10:54:39 PM
ya definatly is a great football school although they finally lost there sectional streak this year
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 15, 2006, 10:55:44 PM
frank, so let me write this straight:

fact: you've called all marotti's games
fiction: your opinion of marotti never having played 2 bad games in a row
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:55:51 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:50:45 PM
Seriously folks.  Can we stop talking about numbers that dont mean anytyhing and start giving opinions of what weve seen or not seen or at least can predict?  For what its worth, heres my two cents on the game from what Ive seen from Union and SJF over the last 4 years...

1) SJF has consistantly put up points on Ithaca over the last 4 years, although about 6 of those 16 quarters Ithaca made adjustments and shut them down.

2) Union did whatever they wanted to against Ithacas defense last year.  Their QB had one or two real bad, unexplainable throws, but besides that they did what they wanted 3X as much as SJF ever did.

3) SJF is probably the biggest team Union will face this year.

4) A much smaller RPI team beat up on a much bigger SJF team last year.

5) Unions rb, (#1) finds the holes and takes off better than any back SJF had faced the last 4 years.

6) Union looks small in their pads

7) SJF doesnt have a game-breaking WR like they had last year, Union might (Angliettas health?)

8) Unions special teams didnt impress me last year.  Ithaca dominated them in that category.  SJF has great special teams and that might come into play

9) Union is a well coached, well balanced team.  If #1 cant find holes up the middle or off tackle, he will get the ball in other ways (screens, draws, options)

I can't argue with any of those JU.  Well done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 10:56:54 PM
As always, an Ithaca Alum sets us free...

Whatever the hell that means...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 15, 2006, 10:55:44 PM
frank, so let me write this straight:

fact: you've called all marotti's games
fiction: your opinion of marotti never having played 2 bad games in a row

Absolutely not a fiction.  I'd have hammered him on air if he had.  I call a spade a spade on the air, which often gets me in trouble with the home crowd.  I'm no Don Cherry, but I don't run from such comments.  Marotti has had some gawd-awful days that have and have not led to losses.  However, he seems to pull his head out of his rear end by the next game.  That's the value in Marotti -- he wants to win, but isn't self-destructive in that way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:58:28 PM
Good post JU.

I'll give #1 his 2 TD's & 100 yds. Doesn't bother me. Throw in a TD & 100 yds. from their WR.

Still won't stop Fisher's offense, and Fisher's defense is good enough to limit those two from scoring more than 3 times in a game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 10:58:42 PM
I should have added that SJF has two running backs that could be considered gamebreakers.  Running games can be shut down though....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:58:28 PM
Good post JU.

I'll give #1 his 2 TD's & 100 yds. Doesn't bother me. Throw in a TD & 100 yds. from their WR.

Still won't stop Fisher's offense, and Fisher's defense is good enough to limit those two from scoring more than 3 times in a game.

Union has three potent WRs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:00:05 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:56:54 PM
As always, an Ithaca Alum sets us free...

Whatever the hell that means...

why is 'port so seemingly dialed into my "humor hot spot" tonight??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:01:03 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:00:05 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:56:54 PM
As always, an Ithaca Alum sets us free...

Whatever the hell that means...

why is 'port so seemingly dialed into my "humor hot spot" tonight??

Great minds think alike!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 15, 2006, 10:55:44 PM
frank, so let me write this straight:

fact: you've called all marotti's games
fiction: your opinion of marotti never having played 2 bad games in a row

Absolutely not a fiction.  I'd have hammered him on air if he had.  I call a spade a spade on the air, which often gets me in trouble with the home crowd.  I'm no Don Cherry, but I don't run from such comments.  Marotti has had some gawd-awful days that have and have not led to losses.  However, he seems to pull his head out of his rear end by the next game.  That's the value in Marotti -- he wants to win, but isn't self-destructive in that way.

as an RPI guy who actually sat in and did color commentary on a Frank Rossi Union broadcast this year (and you have to know the rivalry in these communities to understand the significance...kind of like an IC guy getting in booth w/ the Cortland guy)...I can first handedly (is that a word?) attest to Frank's unabashedness (that IS a word) at calling out Union when they deserve it...or even being a little too critical when they may not. He's an Italian in headphones and with a maroon dress shirt  who pulls no punches.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:03:04 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:58:28 PM
Good post JU.

I'll give #1 his 2 TD's & 100 yds. Doesn't bother me. Throw in a TD & 100 yds. from their WR.

Still won't stop Fisher's offense, and Fisher's defense is good enough to limit those two from scoring more than 3 times in a game.

Union has three potent WRs.

Ok - And all of them combined average 1 td a game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:05:44 PM
Speaking of which, how is Angiletta's health? What was wrong in the first place?

I want him out there at 100%.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:05:44 PM
Speaking of which, how is Angiletta's health? What was wrong in the first place?

I want him out there at 100%.

I believe he broke his collarbone at the start of the season.  Thats a can be a VERY hard injury to fully overcome in a year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:08:34 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2006, 11:06:59 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:05:44 PM
Speaking of which, how is Angiletta's health? What was wrong in the first place?

I want him out there at 100%.

I believe he broke his collarbone at the start of the season.  Thats a can be a VERY hard injury to fully overcome in a year.

Well that's no good - certainly don't wish that on anyone.

He's played in 3 games thus far I see, I assume he will be out there Saturday?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:10:15 PM
Is Fisher really that big? Sheeet.....i played guard at RPI at 6'4", 285 and we had a couple of Tackles who were tall and 300lbs (and not fat). I can appreciate a big line.....having said that, there were times when teams with undersized DL men gave us fits. It's all a matter of game planning, adjustments, and execution. I really think SJF/Union will be a good matchup but I think Union's experience in the postseason with these kids (Marotti, Angiletta, Arcidiacano, etc) will be the difference maker. Home field is overrated in my view. Don't get me wrong...it pumps you up and helps the home guys. It does NOT, however, disrupt a team the way it does in Div 1-A or the pros. I've been to Notre Dame stadium in the endzone against USC 2 years ago when 85,000 fans plus are unloading...it can't be explained in words. That messes up the opponent's snap count, rhythm, etc.  2000-3000 yelling fans doesnt mean jack...I know, I played in those conditions. It's fun.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:10:47 PM
I'll surprise some of you (Frank) but I don't buy the Union QB issue some of my counterparts are arguing. He seems to have decent numbers... not good, not bad.

The key to the game is stopping the tailback, he does all of the damage.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:12:41 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:10:15 PM
Is Fisher really that big? Sheeet.....i played guard at RPI at 6'4", 285 and we had a couple of Tackles who were tall and 300lbs (and not fat). I can appreciate a big line.....having said that, there were times when teams with undersized DL men gave us fits. It's all a matter of game planning, adjustments, and execution. I really think SJF/Union will be a good matchup but I think Union's experience in the postseason with these kids (Marotti, Angiletta, Arcidiacano, etc) will be the difference maker. Home field is overrated in my view. Don't get me wrong...it pumps you up and helps the home guys. It does NOT, however, disrupt a team the way it does in Div 1-A or the pros. I've been to Notre Dame stadium in the endzone against USC 2 years ago when 85,000 fans plus are unloading...it can't be explained in words. That messes up the opponent's snap count, rhythm, etc.  2000-3000 yelling fans doesnt mean jack...I know, I played in those conditions. It's fun.

Ah, an RPI grad. Did you know Anthony Marticello?

The Union experience doesn't mean anything either, don't forget that the leaders of the Fisher team also have solid playoff experience with Robinson & Lang.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:16:20 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:12:41 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:10:15 PM
Is Fisher really that big? Sheeet.....i played guard at RPI at 6'4", 285 and we had a couple of Tackles who were tall and 300lbs (and not fat). I can appreciate a big line.....having said that, there were times when teams with undersized DL men gave us fits. It's all a matter of game planning, adjustments, and execution. I really think SJF/Union will be a good matchup but I think Union's experience in the postseason with these kids (Marotti, Angiletta, Arcidiacano, etc) will be the difference maker. Home field is overrated in my view. Don't get me wrong...it pumps you up and helps the home guys. It does NOT, however, disrupt a team the way it does in Div 1-A or the pros. I've been to Notre Dame stadium in the endzone against USC 2 years ago when 85,000 fans plus are unloading...it can't be explained in words. That messes up the opponent's snap count, rhythm, etc.  2000-3000 yelling fans doesnt mean jack...I know, I played in those conditions. It's fun.

Ah, an RPI grad. Did you know Anthony Marticello?


doesnt ring a bell but I'm old...circa early 90's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 11:17:09 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:12:41 PM
Ah, an RPI grad. Did you know Anthony Marticello?

coulda sworn I saw him at the game, but the adult beverages cloud my mind. He was a a year or 2 younger than me, good kid.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:17:45 PM
Ok - he went '01-'05 & played ball until blowing out his knee.

Just wondered.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:19:12 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2006, 11:17:09 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:12:41 PM
Ah, an RPI grad. Did you know Anthony Marticello?

coulda sworn I saw him at the game, but the adult beverages cloud my mind. He was a a year or 2 younger than me, good kid.

He's a good guy - probably did see him at the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:24:13 PM
I think Frank gave out. Frank, I demand you get back here!


Think that'll work?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:25:36 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:03:04 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:58:28 PM
Good post JU.

I'll give #1 his 2 TD's & 100 yds. Doesn't bother me. Throw in a TD & 100 yds. from their WR.

Still won't stop Fisher's offense, and Fisher's defense is good enough to limit those two from scoring more than 3 times in a game.

Union has three potent WRs.

Ok - And all of them combined average 1 td a game.

Look at yards and yards per catch, bud.  I made the point earlier that MANY drives were ended with Arcidiacono runs of 15 or less yards (and often more than 15).  Union is a team that has turnover and TD numbers that really make no sense when you look at the reality of the season.  In fact, time of possession numbers also were all over the place, but never consistent as to whether a high TOP favored or disfavored Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:26:25 PM
unlike Tags, I'm actually turning in now....plus the battery is dying and i'm too lazy to get the power cord for the laptop.

Enjoy the rest of the evening without RedTackle (although, not sure how you will be able to)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:27:27 PM
have a good one RT
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:28:14 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:00:05 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 10:56:54 PM
As always, an Ithaca Alum sets us free...

Whatever the hell that means...

why is 'port so seemingly dialed into my "humor hot spot" tonight??

Call me crazy.....sounds a little fruity.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:25:36 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:03:04 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:58:28 PM
Good post JU.

I'll give #1 his 2 TD's & 100 yds. Doesn't bother me. Throw in a TD & 100 yds. from their WR.

Still won't stop Fisher's offense, and Fisher's defense is good enough to limit those two from scoring more than 3 times in a game.

Union has three potent WRs.

Ok - And all of them combined average 1 td a game.

Look at yards and yards per catch, bud.  I made the point earlier that MANY drives were ended with Arcidiacono runs of 15 or less yards (and often more than 15).  Union is a team that has turnover and TD numbers that really make no sense when you look at the reality of the season.  In fact, time of possession numbers also were all over the place, but never consistent as to whether a high TOP favored or disfavored Union.

Love the enthusiasm about the passing game frank but they still average less than 200 yds a game. The key is the tailback.

Anyway, will you be attending the game? long drive from the albany area
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:29:13 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:26:25 PM
unlike Tags, I'm actually turning in now....plus the battery is dying and i'm too lazy to get the power cord for the laptop.

Enjoy the rest of the evening without RedTackle (although, not sure how you will be able to)

How disappointed, we all are....  

Anyway, usually I'm the only one lurking in the east boards this time of night....

Union89..... ewwwwwwwwwww +K!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:30:29 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:29:13 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:26:25 PM
unlike Tags, I'm actually turning in now....plus the battery is dying and i'm too lazy to get the power cord for the laptop.

Enjoy the rest of the evening without RedTackle (although, not sure how you will be able to)

How disappointed, we all are....  

Anyway, usually I'm the only one lurking in the east boards this time of night....

Union89..... ewwwwwwwwwww +K!

Not true port - I typically give the punchout line & continue reading  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:32:04 PM
The results of the most recent poll suggest that even we don't think an east team can beat Mount Union...

Will the team that Wins the East make it to the Stagg Bowl?

Yes   6 (24%)
No   19 (76%)

Total Voters: 25

A new poll posted soon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:32:30 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:25:36 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:03:04 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:58:28 PM
Good post JU.

I'll give #1 his 2 TD's & 100 yds. Doesn't bother me. Throw in a TD & 100 yds. from their WR.

Still won't stop Fisher's offense, and Fisher's defense is good enough to limit those two from scoring more than 3 times in a game.

Union has three potent WRs.

Ok - And all of them combined average 1 td a game.

Look at yards and yards per catch, bud.  I made the point earlier that MANY drives were ended with Arcidiacono runs of 15 or less yards (and often more than 15).  Union is a team that has turnover and TD numbers that really make no sense when you look at the reality of the season.  In fact, time of possession numbers also were all over the place, but never consistent as to whether a high TOP favored or disfavored Union.

Love the enthusiasm about the passing game frank but they still average less than 200 yds a game. The key is the tailback.

Anyway, will you be attending the game? long drive from the albany area

I live in NYC Tags.  I'll be there calling the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:33:13 PM
I don't think any team will beat Mt. Union. I'd love to see an E8 team go... but if not I'll be throwing my support behind the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:33:52 PM
Frank, can't believe you haven't talked more about Angiletta's extended period away more.  Marotti can be quite erratic, but both Angiletta and Twitchell can flat out catch almost anything AM throws thier way.  A healthy Angiletta improves AM's % immediately.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:34:40 PM
NYC - that's a tad far Frank.

Let's meet at the half to discuss which one of us will be getting lambasted on here Saturday evening  8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:36:25 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:33:52 PM
Frank, can't believe you haven't talked more about Angiletta's extended period away more.  Marotti can be quite erratic, but both Angiletta and Twitchell can flat out catch almost anything AM throws thier way.  A healthy Angiletta improves AM's % immediately.

He's only getting 5 a game so far w/ one score.

Must be he's easing his way back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:37:47 PM
Early in the voting, someone already picked the NEFC.... who's the wise guy??!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:37:56 PM
Port - are you still lurking?

Did you know Matt Boorom?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
I didn't "know" him really, though he and Bob Darnley lived across the hall from me Sophomore Year, and interviewed him some times for our broadcast. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:40:56 PM
Here's some food for thought...

The way Fisher was hitting last Saturday, and the way I'm sure they'll be hitting this weekend, he may not want the ball thrown to him very much

Edit: coming off an injury like that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:42:02 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
I didn't "know" him really, though he and Bob Darnley lived across the hall from me Sophomore Year, and interviewed him some times for our broadcast. 

Ah - He was a good WR. Went to high school with him... just wondering.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:42:24 PM
Angiletta has only been back for 2 or 3 games....U89 has seen a bunch of good DIII wr's over the years.....he's the best.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:42:02 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
I didn't "know" him really, though he and Bob Darnley lived across the hall from me Sophomore Year, and interviewed him some times for our broadcast. 

Ah - He was a good WR. Went to high school with him... just wondering.

Where did you go to HS?  I Know Darnley went to Lew-Port or Niagara Wheatfield, and I thought Boorom did too but i could be mistaking for someone else.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:44:52 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:42:02 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
I didn't "know" him really, though he and Bob Darnley lived across the hall from me Sophomore Year, and interviewed him some times for our broadcast. 

Ah - He was a good WR. Went to high school with him... just wondering.

Where did you go to HS?  I Know Darnley went to Lew-Port or Niagara Wheatfield, and I thought Boorom did too but i could be mistaking for someone else.

Boorom probably roomed with him - they were pretty good friends. Went to Bath...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 15, 2006, 11:45:37 PM
witch would explain your connection to Robinson
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:46:04 PM
Solid work tonight boys....you put up about 15 pages while U89 watched that crappy Miami (OH) vs. Bowling Green game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:46:40 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:33:52 PM
Frank, can't believe you haven't talked more about Angiletta's extended period away more.  Marotti can be quite erratic, but both Angiletta and Twitchell can flat out catch almost anything AM throws thier way.  A healthy Angiletta improves AM's % immediately.

Kaliades and Reigle became much better receivers than they were pre-2006 (granted, Kaliades was new to the role) in Steve's absence, IMHO.  I truly think Marotti's inability to plant took him by surprise all day Saturday, making his accuracy all the worse.  

My focus has been on this run offense that SJF will supposedly run down Union's throat.  I think that if SJF is truly gunning from the shotgun, the Union defense will be registering more tackles for losses than normal.  That's exactly how Hobart ended up having such a miserable run game statwise a couple weeks back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:47:25 PM
Ok you are right, for some reason I thought he was from the same HS as Darnley but it must have been someone else., yes I know he roomed with him as I stated.

Darnley to Boorom was a classic combination.  Darnley would throw "darts" all over the field to him

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:47:38 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 11:45:37 PM
witch would explain your connection to Robinson

Indeed. He was my neighbor...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:48:40 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:47:25 PM
Ok you are right, for some reason I thought he was from the same HS as Darnley but it must have been someone else., yes I know he roomed with him as I stated.

Darnley to Boorom was a classic combination.  Darnley would throw "darts" all over the field to him



They were fun to watch.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:49:02 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:46:40 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:33:52 PM
Frank, can't believe you haven't talked more about Angiletta's extended period away more.  Marotti can be quite erratic, but both Angiletta and Twitchell can flat out catch almost anything AM throws thier way.  A healthy Angiletta improves AM's % immediately.

Kaliades and Reigle became much better receivers than they were pre-2006 (granted, Kaliades was new to the role) in Steve's absence, IMHO.  I truly think Marotti's inability to plant took him by surprise all day Saturday, making his accuracy all the worse.  

My focus has been on this run offense that SJF will supposedly run down Union's throat.  I think that if SJF is truly gunning from the shotgun, the Union defense will be registering more tackles for losses than normal.  That's exactly how Hobart ended up having such a miserable run game statwise a couple weeks back.


In my opinion, those 3 guys save Marotti from truely grizzly #'s.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

They weren't my comments.

I think what upstate was trying to say was that they will go hurry up and not huddle. Most of the time Kramer gets under center, but they do mix it up nicely as the game goes on.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.


Solid point +1 K for that to Frank....that seems to be the contradiction of the night.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:52:55 PM
I think my comrades were firing away without thought towards the end. Fisher will mix it up, but is under center a lot.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:53:10 PM
Union is hoping the Fisher players are just as confused about their offense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:53:10 PM
Union is hoping the Fisher players are just as confused about their offense.

good stuff k to you as well Port.....ah hell here's one for you too Tags.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:55:24 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 15, 2006, 11:45:37 PM
witch would explain your connection to Robinson

Are you still lurking? You have been pretty quiet as of late.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:56:12 PM
Thanks Union, I'll reciprocate
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

They weren't my comments.

I think what upstate was trying to say was that they will go hurry up and not huddle. Most of the time Kramer gets under center, but they do mix it up nicely as the game goes on.


No, Upstate's comments were based on my statement that the only offenses that have beaten Union this year or played close were the backfield-heavy Springfield offense and the [quasi-]spread offense.  Then he spouted off and said Kramer would be in the shotgun with 3/4 receiver sets, trying to prove that SJF runs a spread offense.  Yet, draw plays from the shotgun made no sense, since Upstate and others claimed that SJF would be running the ball down the throat of Union.  

One thing about hurry-up offenses or muddle-huddle offenses -- they lack versatility.  You can't call intricate plays in them.  That bodes better for Union then SJF in the longrun.  No huddle is something you see very little of in playoffs because of its haphazard nature.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:56:58 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2006, 11:55:19 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:53:10 PM
Union is hoping the Fisher players are just as confused about their offense.

good stuff k to you as well Port.....ah hell here's one for you too Tags.

I was gonna give one back but apparantly I already did tonight....Don't remember when!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2006, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

They weren't my comments.

I think what upstate was trying to say was that they will go hurry up and not huddle. Most of the time Kramer gets under center, but they do mix it up nicely as the game goes on.


No, Upstate's comments were based on my statement that the only offenses that have beaten Union this year or played close were the backfield-heavy Springfield offense and the [quasi-]spread offense.  Then he spouted off and said Kramer would be in the shotgun with 3/4 receiver sets, trying to prove that SJF runs a spread offense.  Yet, draw plays from the shotgun made no sense, since Upstate and others claimed that SJF would be running the ball down the throat of Union.  

One thing about hurry-up offenses or muddle-huddle offenses -- they lack versatility.  You can't call intricate plays in them.  That bodes better for Union then SJF in the longrun.  No huddle is something you see very little of in playoffs because of its haphazard nature.

I haven't actually seen the Fisher Offense but listening to their games a couple times, I don't think I would call it a spread offense --- that doesn't seem to define what they are trying to do. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I wouldn't agree with that Frank. It's not easy to explain over a computer, but trust me they are a well oiled machine on offense.

He was right, they do spread out and show 3 & 4 receiver sets throughout the game but it's the exception rather than the rule. They go shotgun & spread it out when defenses put too many guys in the box to stop the run. The key here, is that Kramer will pick you apart all day long if you stack the box.

I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 12:01:01 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 15, 2006, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

They weren't my comments.

I think what upstate was trying to say was that they will go hurry up and not huddle. Most of the time Kramer gets under center, but they do mix it up nicely as the game goes on.


No, Upstate's comments were based on my statement that the only offenses that have beaten Union this year or played close were the backfield-heavy Springfield offense and the [quasi-]spread offense.  Then he spouted off and said Kramer would be in the shotgun with 3/4 receiver sets, trying to prove that SJF runs a spread offense.  Yet, draw plays from the shotgun made no sense, since Upstate and others claimed that SJF would be running the ball down the throat of Union.  

One thing about hurry-up offenses or muddle-huddle offenses -- they lack versatility.  You can't call intricate plays in them.  That bodes better for Union then SJF in the longrun.  No huddle is something you see very little of in playoffs because of its haphazard nature.

I haven't actually seen the Fisher Offense but listening to their games a couple times, I don't think I would call it a spread offense --- that doesn't seem to define what they are trying to do. 

That was my point earlier when I asked Upstate to define it.  I know they don't.  I was calling his bluff, but others seemed to back his assessment mysteriously.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:01:58 AM
3-0 score here we come. 

After all week stating it would be  a shootout, We are going to end up seeing a pitcher's dual.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 12:02:26 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I wouldn't agree with that Frank. It's not easy to explain over a computer, but trust me they are a well oiled machine on offense.

He was right, they do spread out and show 3 & 4 receiver sets throughout the game but it's the exception rather than the rule. They go shotgun & spread it out when defenses put too many guys in the box to stop the run. The key here, is that Kramer will pick you apart all day long if you stack the box.

I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.

Don't confuse occasional blitzing with stacking the box.  Union isn't a team that will stack the box much.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:02:31 AM
Frank you know as well as I do that most of the time people throw things out there without thinking too much about it. I wouldn't put much stock into it during moments like that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:04:09 AM
So basically forget everything everyone has ever said
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 16, 2006, 12:05:18 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
Frank lets be serious for a moment.

You will have to hold Fisher under 30 to win - can you do that? They're AVERAGING 41 points a game.

Say you hold them to 30, well below their average. You'll have to put up more than 30 - Can you do that? They're giving up 12 points a game & that includes 55 from Sharpe & Co.


And finally, it's at Growney... Not looking good my friend, not looking good at all.
How much of SJF's offense stats were against Mt Ida and the 3 E8 bottom dwellers? Look for Union to win because all the stats are BS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:05:32 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 12:02:26 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I wouldn't agree with that Frank. It's not easy to explain over a computer, but trust me they are a well oiled machine on offense.

He was right, they do spread out and show 3 & 4 receiver sets throughout the game but it's the exception rather than the rule. They go shotgun & spread it out when defenses put too many guys in the box to stop the run. The key here, is that Kramer will pick you apart all day long if you stack the box.

I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.

Don't confuse occasional blitzing with stacking the box.  Union isn't a team that will stack the box much.

I wasn't referring to Union, I don't know what they do. I do know that if you don't stack the box you'll see #25 all day long for 5-6 yds at a pop. And if you do come hard, Kramer manages the game very well and will find his ends to check off. I don't think shutting down the Fisher offense is the key to your success here... I think Union fans should hope that you have the horsepower to keep up.

And to be fair it seems like you've got the tools, but the fisher D is tough. We'll see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 12:05:48 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 16, 2006, 12:04:09 AM
So basically forget everything everyone has ever said

What did you say, Port?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:07:06 AM
Quote from: dea on November 16, 2006, 12:05:18 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
Frank lets be serious for a moment.

You will have to hold Fisher under 30 to win - can you do that? They're AVERAGING 41 points a game.

Say you hold them to 30, well below their average. You'll have to put up more than 30 - Can you do that? They're giving up 12 points a game & that includes 55 from Sharpe & Co.


And finally, it's at Growney... Not looking good my friend, not looking good at all.
How much of SJF's offense stats were against Mt Ida and the 3 E8 bottom dwellers? Look for Union to win because all the stats are BS.

I wouldn't call a pounding of Ithaca, Alfred, and U of R  BS. It's ok, you'll see it first hand Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:07:59 AM
Exactly Frank. Now you've got it.

Dea,

While the biggest stats have come against those celler dwellers, their lowest point output on the year was 27.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:09:00 AM
And also, the exact same thing could be said about the bottom half of the LL.

Time for a new random comment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:10:41 AM
I've been looking for something to put in my signature for Days and can't come up with anything, and no one has said anything overly funny.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:11:19 AM
Dude, how funny was tecmo's random comment yesterday... I put that in mine.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:13:33 AM
It was funny but you took it so I couldn't put it in mine lol.  Oh no I was docked Karma randomly...who did it! Show yourself!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
I put it back for you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 16, 2006, 12:14:40 AM
I still say that you need to throw out all the stats....this isn't fantasy football.  I think that SJF will be  held to their lowest point total of the season by a very underrated Union defense.  Other than Sharpe they haven't faced a runner like Arcidiacano all season and Union's 2 wideouts will give the SJF  D fits all day. Key is turnovers and if Union plays error free it's one and done for SJF.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:15:06 AM
It's a good think I actually left when I said I was going to ...

I think I'm going to pass out here at my desk.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:15:45 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
I put it back for you.

Return to sender!  right back at ya....and I'm still not sure why I care about the rating anyway!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 16, 2006, 12:16:28 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:09:00 AM
And also, the exact same thing could be said about the bottom half of the LL.

Time for a new random comment.
Bottom half of LL would  dominate the E8 weak teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: dea on November 16, 2006, 12:14:40 AM
I still say that you need to throw out all the stats....this isn't fantasy football.  I think that SJF will be  held to their lowest point total of the season by a very underrated Union defense.  Other than Sharpe they haven't faced a runner like Arcidiacano all season and Union's 2 wideouts will give the SJF  D fits all day. Key is turnovers and if Union plays error free it's one and done for SJF.

Agreed - Out goes a 3 td 200 yd game from ur tailback in a 28-27 thumping of 3-6 WPI... After all this isn't fantasy football.

You can't be serious with that stuff.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:17:45 AM
Quote from: dea on November 16, 2006, 12:16:28 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:09:00 AM
And also, the exact same thing could be said about the bottom half of the LL.

Time for a new random comment.
Bottom half of LL would  dominate the E8 weak teams.

That I might have to agree with....the bad E8 teams are REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY bad.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:20:00 AM
Port- I completely agree.

The point is that Fisher put them away like they should have... but they also put up huge numbers vs. the top teams in the E8. With the exception of the Hobart game Union just snuck by their other games.

I just don't see how that all can be irrelevant.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:20:59 AM
At any rate, the past is the past & we'll see how it plays out this Saturday.

Port- Do you live up here? The next question is are you coming?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:23:32 AM
If I still lived in the Brockport/ Rochester Area I would definitely go, just to see Union for the very first time --- and I think it will be a great game.  However, I live in Florida so that's definitely not happening! :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:24:27 AM
Oh come on, it's only like a 20 hour drive. Frank is coming from NYC.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.


Tags... it is up to you to remember you said that on Sunday, because I don't trust myself to....


Also, could we please represent the E8 board with SATERDAY once in awhile??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:26:12 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:24:27 AM
Oh come on, it's only like a 20 hour drive. Frank is coming from NYC.



20!  It's actually longer than that, I'm in South Florida.    Maybe one of these years I'll randomly take in a stagg bowl, but it might take something big happening to get me there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.


Tags... it is up to you to remember you said that on Sunday, because I don't trust myself to....


Also, could we please represent the E8 board with SATERDAY once in awhile??

Are you coming?

Edit: Coming Saterday?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:29:34 AM
Are there any other fans of the other teams in the East Region playoffs? You'd think the Fisher / Union game was the only one.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:29:43 AM
Looking doubtful.... I'm only going if ICeman is going, and he has some job training bull sh*t in the morning... also I might be at the last minute working at the Resler BBall tourney at UR that weekend.... it's all up in the air at this point.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.


Tags... it is up to you to remember you said that on Sunday, because I don't trust myself to....


Also, could we please represent the E8 board with SATERDAY once in awhile??

Are you coming?

Edit: Coming Saterday?

You have more goodbyes than the Rolling Stones!  I am, actually over and out.. Goodnight boys from the lovely Sunshine State.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:30:43 AM
That's weak Max.

I'll take a picture of the scoreboard & put it in my profile for you if you don't come.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:31:28 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 16, 2006, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:00:14 AM
I think you'll be surprised at Fishers offense based on your comments. I'm telling you that they will put up 30 if not 30+ against you.


Tags... it is up to you to remember you said that on Sunday, because I don't trust myself to....


Also, could we please represent the E8 board with SATERDAY once in awhile??

Are you coming?

Edit: Coming Saterday?

You have more goodbyes than the Rolling Stones!  I am, actually over and out.. Goodnight boys from the lovely Sunshine State.

Max made a surprise appearance & drew me back in!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:32:35 AM
Tags everyone knows you're good for five more posts after your signoff.

I know what the scoreboard looks like... that awful image is burned into my brain. OH I can't wait for IC-SJC at Butterfield.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 12:34:56 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 12:32:35 AM
Tags everyone knows you're good for five more posts after your signoff.

I know what the scoreboard looks like... that awful image is burned into my brain. OH I can't wait for IC-SJC at Butterfield.....

He actually said punching out like 1.5 hours ago --- in 3 different spots... Look now he's got me doing it!  This is it I'm done!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:41:42 AM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:10:15 PM
Is Fisher really that big? Sheeet.....i played guard at RPI at 6'4", 285 and we had a couple of Tackles who were tall and 300lbs (and not fat). I can appreciate a big line.....having said that, there were times when teams with undersized DL men gave us fits. It's all a matter of game planning, adjustments, and execution. I really think SJF/Union will be a good matchup but I think Union's experience in the postseason with these kids (Marotti, Angiletta, Arcidiacano, etc) will be the difference maker. Home field is overrated in my view. Don't get me wrong...it pumps you up and helps the home guys. It does NOT, however, disrupt a team the way it does in Div 1-A or the pros. I've been to Notre Dame stadium in the endzone against USC 2 years ago when 85,000 fans plus are unloading...it can't be explained in words. That messes up the opponent's snap count, rhythm, etc.  2000-3000 yelling fans doesnt mean jack...I know, I played in those conditions. It's fun.

RT we have witnesses AND documentation that you are 6'3. ;)

But SJF is that big.  But like you said that doesnt mean anything.  I remember playing Mansfield (PA) back in the 1990s and they had the biggest line probably Ithacas ever played.  Im talking 6'6 300+ pounders that LOOKED good in pads.  But they sucked.  If your 6'6 300 and your not playing at Syracuse or even Maine, therese something going on there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2006, 07:51:24 AM
Johnny, do they have this in the helmet project?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.answers.com%2Fmain%2Fcontent%2Fwp%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F2%2F29%2F300px-Dark_Helmet_angry.jpg&hash=31787a9feceb5f4b01753e010a56a8a7f99051a7)
"I bet she gives great helmet"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Naked Nott Run on November 16, 2006, 07:54:16 AM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 16, 2006, 12:26:12 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 12:24:27 AM
Oh come on, it's only like a 20 hour drive. Frank is coming from NYC.



20!  It's actually longer than that, I'm in South Florida.    Maybe one of these years I'll randomly take in a stagg bowl, but it might take something big happening to get me there.

Port where you at? I'm in the Tampa area
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Naked Nott Run on November 16, 2006, 07:55:13 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2006, 07:51:24 AM
Johnny, do they have this in the helmet project?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.answers.com%2Fmain%2Fcontent%2Fwp%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F2%2F29%2F300px-Dark_Helmet_angry.jpg&hash=31787a9feceb5f4b01753e010a56a8a7f99051a7)
"I bet she gives great helmet"

what is...said helmet project?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 09:12:39 AM
I found footage of last weeks Fisher-Alfred game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rJP49EmcQI
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:37:11 AM
good footage...it was painful to listen to though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:38:03 AM
ya they try to give all the wanna be's a chance,  the good ones though are the ones that do the teamline stream
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 10:47:09 AM
In ATN springfield is listed as the biggest dissapointment out of the east region for the playoffs...but Mann says they will lose in the Final to Rowan...

If thats the case, is making the East regional final and losing to Perennial power Rowan a big dissapointment?

I can see it being a dissapointment, but not necessarily a shocker if they dont make it that far.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:52:28 AM
yeah, thats kinda weird....they're 9-1, lost to a solid ithaca team. they beat the #3 and #6 seeded teams in their region during the regular season and their considered a disappointment?!?! i wouldn't hold too much weight into that prediction/comment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:57:42 AM
just as we have been saying they are a gimmick team who needs the offense to click if they play a good d they will lose
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:02:03 AM
but he's still picking them to beat both fisher or union in the second round...you call that disappointing?  i'm not saying they can't lose in the second round, which is entirely possible...i think both fan of d3 and myself are trying to figure out the "disappointment" part of the statement. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 11:06:37 AM
I think it means they have the biggest chance to be a dissapointment
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Truth...please disregard anything said by superman..


What I think he is saying is that they have the ability to be the biggest dissapointment in the playoffs (early round loss).  What I dont understand though is why pick them to make it to the finals and lose there to a perrenial power and call it a dissapointment.  Thats like saying the Tigers were a dissapointment in the MLB went from being last to ALCS...pretty good turn around.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
Boy the Karma just plummets around here..
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
Boy the Karma just plummets around here..

Stop saying stupid things and it is ok.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:14:56 AM
I dont believe making a point about picking SC to lose to Rowan in the eastern finals is a stupid thing... and since this is a message board, i'll say whatever the **** i want.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 11:18:37 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:14:56 AM
I dont believe making a point about picking SC to lose to Rowan in the eastern finals is a stupid thing... and since this is a message board, i'll say whatever the **** i want.

Admit it, you missed me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:20:04 AM
Not as much as you missed me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 16, 2006, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:20:04 AM
Not as much as you missed me.

There it is ladies and gentlemen, Fan of Stroking Chris Sharpe's...ego's first post not mentioning SC.

I'd like to thank the Academy...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:26:20 AM
If it were my award why would you thank the academy?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2006, 12:39:13 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:41:42 AM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 15, 2006, 11:10:15 PM
Is Fisher really that big? Sheeet.....i played guard at RPI at 6'4", 285 and we had a couple of Tackles who were tall and 300lbs (and not fat). I can appreciate a big line.....having said that, there were times when teams with undersized DL men gave us fits. It's all a matter of game planning, adjustments, and execution. I really think SJF/Union will be a good matchup but I think Union's experience in the postseason with these kids (Marotti, Angiletta, Arcidiacano, etc) will be the difference maker. Home field is overrated in my view. Don't get me wrong...it pumps you up and helps the home guys. It does NOT, however, disrupt a team the way it does in Div 1-A or the pros. I've been to Notre Dame stadium in the endzone against USC 2 years ago when 85,000 fans plus are unloading...it can't be explained in words. That messes up the opponent's snap count, rhythm, etc.  2000-3000 yelling fans doesnt mean jack...I know, I played in those conditions. It's fun.

RT we have witnesses AND documentation that you are 6'3. ;)

But SJF is that big.  But like you said that doesnt mean anything.  I remember playing Mansfield (PA) back in the 1990s and they had the biggest line probably Ithacas ever played.  Im talking 6'6 300+ pounders that LOOKED good in pads.  But they sucked.  If your 6'6 300 and your not playing at Syracuse or even Maine, therese something going on there.

JU,

6'4" with big hair
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 01:14:34 PM
d3 have I told you recently that your an idiot.... I was being nice to you and trying to make sense of a comment and you come out and bash me... not necesary....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2006, 01:17:04 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Truth...please disregard anything said by superman..


What I think he is saying is that they have the ability to be the biggest dissapointment in the playoffs (early round loss).  What I dont understand though is why pick them to make it to the finals and lose there to a perrenial power and call it a dissapointment.  Thats like saying the Tigers were a dissapointment in the MLB went from being last to ALCS...pretty good turn around. 

The Tigers had great pitching and defense, but fell ass-backwards into the playoffs as a wild card with a sweep by KC, and then lost in the Series to the worst playoff team in years. That's pretty disappointing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 02:09:47 PM
RE: SJF and Union's running backs.

What makes those guys good is the fact that they will both break that one tackle at the line of scrimmage and then take off after that.  Robinson is a little bigger and smoother but #1 (dont want to misspell his name) is faster, tougher and more explosive.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 02:27:37 PM
Superman- Sorry if I came across a bit harsh but this...

"just as we have been saying they are a gimmick team who needs the offense to click if they play a good d they will lose"

does not really seem to fit the question I asked, just seemed like any question I have comes back to why they are a "gimmick" offense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 02:29:31 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 02:09:47 PM
RE: SJF and Union's running backs.

What makes those guys good is the fact that they will both break that one tackle at the line of scrimmage and then take off after that.  Robinson is a little bigger and smoother but #1 (dont want to misspell his name) is faster, tougher and more explosive.



I shouldnt call him "tougher".  Not the right word
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 02:33:33 PM
I think on any given day Springfield can beat any team in the country with that offense, but your so 1 dimensional that if a team stops sharpe you could be in alot of trouble, unlike with fisher if you stop Robinson, chances are your not going to be able to stop reile or the wr's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2006, 03:14:47 PM
No one is riding on springfields jock because of the loss to RPI in 2003. It was an "unstoppable" springfield team, killing the competition. #10 in the nation I believe. Playing at home, with a bye, in conditions not favoring RPI's pass happy spread offense. So not only did they lose, but RPI was no favorite since they too blew the #1 seed in 2001, making them suspect. RPI basically transferred the monkey to SC that year.

so, Springfield needs to earn it. I think they can beat any team in the bracket, but will they?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2006, 03:14:47 PM
No one is riding on springfields jock because of the loss to RPI in 2003. It was an "unstoppable" springfield team, killing the competition. #10 in the nation I believe. Playing at home, with a bye, in conditions not favoring RPI's pass happy spread offense. So not only did they lose, but RPI was no favorite since they too blew the #1 seed in 2001, making them suspect. RPI basically transferred the monkey to SC that year.

so, Springfield needs to earn it. I think they can beat any team in the bracket, but will they?

Ithaca basically did to them this year what RPI did to them in 2003....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 03:47:29 PM
hell, with this east bracket, i think pretty much anyone in the top 6 can get to the semis.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

Considering that I played center there, I think I know their offense....

Frank here it is (now that I have time to actually explain it)....

Their offense runs the no huddle, they sub regularly but never huddle.  The offense will stand over the ball and get the plays from the sideline. They run counters, draws and zone plays from shotgun and under center.  This is not a conventional run offense just because they average 260yds a game on the ground. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2006, 05:26:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2006, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

Considering that I played center there, I think I know their offense....

Frank here it is (now that I have time to actually explain it)....

Their offense runs the no huddle, they sub regularly but never huddle.  The offense will stand over the ball and get the plays from the sideline. They run counters, draws and zone plays from shotgun and under center.  This is not a conventional run offense just because they average 260yds a game on the ground. 

so now begins another 7 hours of Frank Rossi vs. Upstate....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 05:30:54 PM
I'd say the score is right now is fisher 34 frank 21 frank blocked an extra point
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 06:11:17 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 16, 2006, 05:26:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2006, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

Considering that I played center there, I think I know their offense....

Frank here it is (now that I have time to actually explain it)....

Their offense runs the no huddle, they sub regularly but never huddle.  The offense will stand over the ball and get the plays from the sideline. They run counters, draws and zone plays from shotgun and under center.  This is not a conventional run offense just because they average 260yds a game on the ground. 

so now begins another 7 hours of Frank Rossi vs. Upstate....

Im ready for round 2....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 06:50:45 PM
Me too.  Lets get it on.....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dawgsonline.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fapollocreed.jpg&hash=e65ba42907a8d30314c2f127834ee23728bf665f)
Come on chump!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2006, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: RedTackle on November 16, 2006, 05:26:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2006, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

Considering that I played center there, I think I know their offense....

Frank here it is (now that I have time to actually explain it)....

Their offense runs the no huddle, they sub regularly but never huddle.  The offense will stand over the ball and get the plays from the sideline. They run counters, draws and zone plays from shotgun and under center.  This is not a conventional run offense just because they average 260yds a game on the ground. 

so now begins another 7 hours of Frank Rossi vs. Upstate....


+1K to RT....good stuff....U89 is going out to watch the Pitt/WVA game...will be back later to read up on the 15 page battle....wait till Tags arrives... :o
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 16, 2006, 06:59:53 PM

+1K to RT....good stuff....U89 is going out to watch the Pitt/WVA game...will be back later to read up on the 15 page battle....wait till Tags arrives... :o

The bell hasnt rung yet....

Still waiting on Franky....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 07:08:31 PM
Tags try this....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frobbloom.com%2Fpopculture%2Fimages%2FIvan%2520Drago.jpg&hash=375be14571eab72bad11a91dbd2796226960937e)
I Will Crush You!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 07:10:07 PM
Too retarded to put a picture in the body evidently.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 16, 2006, 07:11:49 PM
Are any of the east games going to be webcast by anyone?

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:16:20 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 16, 2006, 07:11:49 PM
Are any of the east games going to be webcast by anyone?

CK

Yes, all Eastern games will be available for free online except in the states on the below map outlined in orange.....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapsofworld.com%2Fusa%2Fstates%2Ftexas%2Fmaps%2Ftexas-location-map.gif&hash=da8a86e6aefa55fee075b2fdd9cf42029d27ea5a)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 07:18:17 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:16:20 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 16, 2006, 07:11:49 PM
Are any of the east games going to be webcast by anyone?

CK

Yes, all Eastern games will be available for free online except in the states on the below map outlined in orange.....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mapsofworld.com%2Fusa%2Fstates%2Ftexas%2Fmaps%2Ftexas-location-map.gif&hash=da8a86e6aefa55fee075b2fdd9cf42029d27ea5a)

Ha - That's actually pretty funny.

"One of these things is not like the other"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 07:19:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2006, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2006, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 15, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Not the case frank. Kramer will be under center a lot of the time.

You boys best get your stories straight.  Nobody seems to know the SJF offense here.

Considering that I played center there, I think I know their offense....

Frank here it is (now that I have time to actually explain it)....

Their offense runs the no huddle, they sub regularly but never huddle.  The offense will stand over the ball and get the plays from the sideline. They run counters, draws and zone plays from shotgun and under center.  This is not a conventional run offense just because they average 260yds a game on the ground. 

Thus, it isn't a "spread offense."  Thanks again.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:22:44 PM
Frank, the true definition of a "spread" offense to me is 3-4 wide every play, one back every play, shotgun every play, with no TE most of the time.

SJF has a TE most of the time, but also has 3-4 WRs and 1 back most of the time and shotgun most of the time.

So Id call it a spread except for the 2-TE sets and 2-back sets that are thrown in there a little more than 10% of the time
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 07:29:48 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:22:44 PM
Frank, the true definition of a "spread" offense to me is 3-4 wide every play, one back every play, shotgun every play, with no TE most of the time.

SJF has a TE most of the time, but also has 3-4 WRs and 1 back most of the time and shotgun most of the time.

So Id call it a spread except for the 2-TE sets and 2-back sets that are thrown in there a little more than 10% of the time

They only go double tight near the redzone....

This is a spread offense Frank....

You do remember the UR game right?  Yeah well that is pretty much the exact same offense SJF runs....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2006, 07:29:48 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:22:44 PM
Frank, the true definition of a "spread" offense to me is 3-4 wide every play, one back every play, shotgun every play, with no TE most of the time.

SJF has a TE most of the time, but also has 3-4 WRs and 1 back most of the time and shotgun most of the time.

So Id call it a spread except for the 2-TE sets and 2-back sets that are thrown in there a little more than 10% of the time

They only go double tight near the redzone....

This is a spread offense Frank....

You do remember the UR game right?  Yeah well that is pretty much the exact same offense SJF runs....

Best tell your compatriates on this board that then -- when you went to bed, it was explained as a tightened line coming from a no-huddle offense.  The video I saw from the Alfred game says to me that it isn't what I'd call a spread offense, to be honest.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 07:35:27 PM
It really doesn't matter at this point. Frank will see it on Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 07:37:37 PM
frank how much does union pay you to kiss their a$$
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 07:44:21 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 16, 2006, 07:37:37 PM
frank how much does union pay you to kiss their a$$

Obviously, you don't listen to Union games or read the LLPP regularly.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 07:46:21 PM
Frank go back and read like the last 15 pages all you have done is kiss butt
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 07:47:35 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 16, 2006, 07:46:21 PM
Frank go back and read like the last 15 pages all you have done is kiss butt

Whatever, stuperman. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 07:48:20 PM
Not that I care one way or the other but of course he is gonna kiss butt, Union is his team...Just like you do with SJF and I do with SC...why wouldnt you cheer for your team??

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 07:49:34 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 07:48:20 PM
Not that I care one way or the other but of course he is gonna kiss butt, Union is his team...Just like you do with SJF and I do with SC...why wouldnt you cheer for your team??



I've gotten the rep lately that I'm not "enough" of a homer in terms of my posts here and criticism of Union's second half/defensive play earlier in the season.  I call it how I see it -- with a small Union-based spin if anything.  I'm not ashamed to admit that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:50:25 PM
Seriously, the guy is a Union grad, fan and announcer for the dam football team!!!  What did you expect, his philosophy on the 1992 St. Lawrence Wing-T teams?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2006, 07:50:54 PM
someone told me robinson trains in a pool

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy257%2Fnikecity23%2FNike%2520Zoom%2520LeBron%2520III%2520Wise%2FDSC06069.jpg&hash=f413c98fb151ec13f931e68cca866bc4a73c98e4)
"You can't train in no pool.
You think TA trains in a pool?
Stop looking at my lemonade!!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2006, 07:51:40 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 07:50:25 PM
Seriously, the guy is a Union grad, fan and announcer for the dam football team!!!  What did you expect, his philosophy on the 1992 St. Lawrence Wing-T teams?

Now that you mention it...Those SLU teams...boy do I have stories...

:-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 08:33:29 PM
STATS COMPARISON: (Union 9 gms., Fisher 10 gms.)
Category ...........................................Union............... Fisher
Scoring.......................................... 29.7 avg.......... 40.8 avg.
Scoring Defense ............................20.2 avg.......... 12.4 avg.
First Downs ......................................176.................. 219
Rushing Attempts............................. 313.................. 430
Rushing- Net/Avg. ....................1834/ 203.8 .........2536/ 253.6
Rushing - Defense/Avg. .............1136/ 126.2 .......1075/ 107.5
Passing - Yards/Avg................... 1839/ 204.3 .......1870/ 187.0
Passing - Defense/Avg............... 1698/ 188.7 .......1532/ 153.2
Total Offense/Avg. ......................3673/ 408.1 .......4406/ 440.6
Total Defense/Avg. .......................2834/ 314.9.......2607/ 260.7
Turnover Ratio..................................... -3 ....................+9
Fumbles/Lost ....................................13-9 .................24-11
Interception Returns ........................11-36 ...............13-45
Penalties/Yards ...............................55-492 .............53-518
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 08:35:14 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2006, 08:33:29 PM
STATS COMPARISON: (Union 9 gms., Fisher 10 gms.)
Category ...........................................Union............... Fisher
Scoring.......................................... 29.7 avg.......... 40.8 avg.
Scoring Defense ............................20.2 avg.......... 12.4 avg.
First Downs ......................................176.................. 219
Rushing Attempts............................. 313.................. 430
Rushing- Net/Avg. ....................1834/ 203.8 .........2536/ 253.6
Rushing - Defense/Avg. .............1136/ 126.2 .......1075/ 107.5
Passing - Yards/Avg................... 1839/ 204.3 .......1870/ 187.0
Passing - Defense/Avg............... 1698/ 188.7 .......1532/ 153.2
Total Offense/Avg. ......................3673/ 408.1 .......4406/ 440.6
Total Defense/Avg. .......................2834/ 314.9.......2607/ 260.7
Turnover Ratio..................................... -3 ....................+9
Fumbles/Lost ....................................13-9 .................24-11
Interception Returns ........................11-36 ...............13-45
Penalties/Yards ...............................55-492 .............53-518


Thats funny.  I didnt even know the stats and my prediction was right on cue....

SJF     40.8
Union 29.7
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 08:35:35 PM
Where are all the other fans? I'd desparately like to hear about any of the other 3 games  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 09:02:33 PM
Frank, here is classic SJF offense....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9XT55S7RKg&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9XT55S7RKg&mode=related&search=)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2006, 09:22:01 PM
BTW, plus K for the night crew!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:24:03 PM
thats not a "spread offense". its a multiple set offense with some singleback, double tight, shotgun stuff. don't get me wrong here, they do run some "spread" plays but its not completely spread. they run a variety of things and they run it well. kudos to fisher for having an explosive offense.

superman, you're up fisher's a$$ just about as bad frank is up union's...at least he admits it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:26:19 PM
if you read my posts I show some rhyme and reason and for the most part if someone else makes a good point I agree with it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:27:01 PM
if you want to watch some "spread" right now, turn on espn and watch pat white and slaton rip up pitt.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:27:01 PM
if you want to watch some "spread" right now, turn on espn and watch pat white and slaton rip up pitt.

Are you sure that's a spread? B/c technically it may not be ...

You better get your story straight. Spread or no spread? B/c if they run it out of the shotgun that plays right into the defenses hands...Doesn't anyone know the offense?!?!?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 10:35:39 PM
Easy truth...it might be labeled a gimmick offense and not spread
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:36:10 PM
ha, yea thats spread....they're obviously a run heavy team with it though. wvu has so much speed with white and slaton...its ridiculous.  this form of offense is so popular now that it shouldn't be considered a "gimmick" either.

superman, i never said you didn't compliment people or agree with their points...its obvious that you are pro-fisher and thats completely fine.  did you hook me up today for getting on frank yesterday?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 10:37:13 PM
Yea, WV usually has two backs next to the QB but I could still call that the spread.  Heres what I think are the 3 main elements of the spread offense.

-shotgun
-4-5 wides
-no TE's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:39:01 PM
Frank's been working out for quite some time now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:39:12 PM
man law?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:41:08 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 10:37:13 PM
Yea, WV usually has two backs next to the QB but I could still call that the spread.  Heres what I think are the 3 main elements of the spread offense.

-shotgun
-4-5 wides
-no TE's


I hear Fisher runs a spread
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:41:54 PM
is frank working out or working one out.... either way he should have already been back
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:42:04 PM
Anyone sick of Billy Fuccillo?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:42:35 PM
yup It's  HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:44:12 PM
Ohio State or Michigan?


I'm a Michgan guy - mainly b/c Mike Hart is somewhat local. And b/c Troy Smith isn't really that good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:46:14 PM
one of my former profs is a big OState guy so I have to go with Ohio
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:46:51 PM
I'm looking forward to catching the majority of that game after congratulating Fisher.

Doesn't get any better than NCAA'S & Michigan / Ohio St. on the same Saterday!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:49:17 PM
Can anyone imagine if Pat White & Steve Slaton were both on Fisher along with Robinson & Reile?

I'm thinking leave Kramer at QB & have those four rotate every fourth series.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:49:17 PM
Can anyone imagine if Pat White & Steve Slaton were both on Fisher along with Robinson & Reile?

I'm thinking leave Kramer at QB & have those four rotate every fourth series.

Id think Id call that Robinson and Reile riding the bench......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:49:17 PM
Can anyone imagine if Pat White & Steve Slaton were both on Fisher along with Robinson & Reile?

I'm thinking leave Kramer at QB & have those four rotate every fourth series.

Id think Id call that Robinson and Reile riding the bench......

Missed out on the sarcasm JU - It was a play on the handling of the Robinson / Reile situation at Fisher...

Wasn't a serious observation - Slaton is probably the best back DI has seen in the last few years though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2006, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:49:17 PM
Can anyone imagine if Pat White & Steve Slaton were both on Fisher along with Robinson & Reile?

I'm thinking leave Kramer at QB & have those four rotate every fourth series.

Id think Id call that Robinson and Reile riding the bench......

Missed out on the sarcasm JU - It was a play on the handling of the Robinson / Reile situation at Fisher...

Wasn't a serious observation - Slaton is probably the best back DI has seen in the last few years though.

Oh I sensed some sarcasm, just didnt pick it up the way I should have...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 10:57:42 PM
superman- Evidently you've deleted the post, but I am leaning towards Baird Road Pub.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 10:58:01 PM
reggie bush, adrian peterson, ronnie brown, cadillac?  remember slaton's size too....he's only 5'7 or so. and with that being said, he's dirty (in a good way)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 16, 2006, 10:59:26 PM
sounds good I'm a big fan of fairport hots
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:00:19 PM
Around the Nation has posted it's postseason preview,

As for the east, this is what they think:

Disappointments
Coleman: Springfield. They should beat Curry, but will they catch lightning in a bottle for a second time against either Union or St. John Fisher? Seems unlikely.
Mann: Springfield. With a run-heavy offense and a pass defense that's giving up almost 200 yards a game, I could see a very lopsided regional final between the Pride and Rowan.
McMillan: With a pair of road games, the Liberty League could quite easily go two-and-out after taking serious steps forward with the same two teams last year.

Champion
Coleman: Rowan, with the Wilkes game the most competitive.
Mann: Rowan. As disappointed as Cortland State fans are at the Red Dragons' near miss against the Profs, I suspect many other East region teams will soon feel the same way. There's something to be said for mystique. A fantastic defense and great quarterback doesn't hurt either.
McMillan: Defenses shine in the playoffs, and Wilkes and Rowan both have the pedigree to snuff out talented offenses. It might come down to which offense can generate 13 or 14 points in the second round. The Profs' defense is as good as any, but the Colonels (8.3 points per game) are right there, and the rest of the team has been more consistent.

Obviously, Rowan is the clear favorite among the group.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:21:49 PM
Go curry
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:34:17 PM
fan of d3, i'm not going to throw much weight into gordon mann's disappointment...i'd be satisfied with a trip to the elite 8. at least pat's has some sound reasoning why he believes they could be a disappointment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:37:11 PM
I think Springfield is the one team in the Region that could be a Complete Surprise by winning the Region, or a complete disappointment if they lose in the second round.  But the point that Defense wins in the playoffs is a strong one.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 16, 2006, 11:40:15 PM
I agree about him being a little off with the dissapointment....hell a trip to the elite 8 is somethin to be proud of and will help recruiting big time...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:41:31 PM
Especially losing to Rowan.  Not many Eastern Teams have beaten the Profs in the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:41:33 PM
yea but you'd be surprised by their defense at times. i know the stats don't favor them much but they've made some stops this year when it mattered. its weird with springfield...whenever they have good offenses, their defenses aren't nearly as good. however, whenever they have a solid defense, their offense hasn't been good. its pretty random.

but yes, if their offense is clicking, they could beat anyone in this bracket, including rowan. teams have to prepare so differently than any other game with the option.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 11:42:03 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 16, 2006, 11:37:11 PM
I think Springfield is the one team in the Region that could be a Complete Surprise by winning the Region, or a complete disappointment if they lose in the second round.  But the point that Defense wins in the playoffs is a strong one.

Now you've done it ... Out come the SC "our defense is unfairly picked on" arguments - take cover!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:43:35 PM
Well unfortunately I do know that Springfield's D can be good at times... Holding Brockport to 3 points (Even though The port didn't have a stellar offense, it's still holding a team to a FG).... The problem is they've been absolutely horrendous at other times.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:47:11 PM
tags, i didn't say that at all....they've been extremely vulnerable at times and at other times have looked good...bottom line: inconsistency. they've shown glimpses but are still too vulnerable and predictable.  i'm just saying they aren't as bad as advertised (they aren't good either) springfield goes as their offense goes
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:48:50 PM
I think I can live with the "they aren't as bad as we think" argument.  Hell maybe they'll pitch a shutout on curry this weekend!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:52:01 PM
lets not push it bport
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 11:52:15 PM
I'm just saying that tomorrow morning this board will be crawling w/ Hey Pride posters defending their D till the death!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:54:42 PM
Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:52:01 PM
lets not push it bport

Haha +K for that, at least you are honest about that.  I wish I knew a little more about Curry. I'll have to do some research.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 16, 2006, 11:54:56 PM
no chance of that happening...i think there's maybe 4 or 5 sc posters...and they all know that the offense carries the squad and the defense gets it done when they have to.

i'm pretty sure people will be going off on me tomorrow but if everyone reads what i wrote, they will know realize i'm not "pumping up" their d.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 11:55:40 PM
On the other hand I don't doubt for a minute that their Offense is capbable of carrying them ... to a point.

I guarantee someone wises up & puts 9 guys in the box & makes Sharpe put it in the air... Then it will get interesting. Sort of what Ithaca did to them... stuffed the box on the first two downs & made them throw on 3rd and 5 all day.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2006, 11:56:43 PM
I think only Rowan and Wilkes will be able to get away with that and still survive, But I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 16, 2006, 11:57:59 PM
I know what's coming next, but I'd still put Fisher's defense up against any defense in the East ... And I'm not taking anything away from Rowan, I know they are a great defense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 17, 2006, 12:01:32 AM
It's been a pleasure, and despite my recent history of post-departure postings I'm in need of sleep.

Talk tomorrow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 17, 2006, 12:03:13 AM
here's the problem with putting 9 and stuffing the box....they can spread you out in formations that require you to put defensive guys on their slot players. they can run the option from every formation they have, they'll force you to spread your defense out. its a lot easier said than done....and 9 in the box won't cut it because sharpe can throw the ball to an open receiver. everyone has their philosophies on "stopping" the option.  tags, 3rd and 5 for them is an obvious running down....try 3rd and 15 for a pass...and that might not happen either. they're so predictable that they can be unpredictable (or something like that...you follow me there)

curry is by far the most athletic team from the nefc. they'll have some decent speed at the skill positions and they have a good balance of run and pass. i think they could hang for a half with sc but by the end of the 3rd, their defense will be dogged.

port, thanks for the boost in k. i am honest
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 17, 2006, 12:05:02 AM
I dont know if I have deserved it for anything but I'll take a plus K.....

anyone....

anyone....

Oddly enough SC is a run team on third down (er, maybe not oddly enough) most of their pass attempts come on first down.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: The Truth 00 on November 17, 2006, 12:05:24 AM
and with that being said, i'm off like a prom dress. or as michael kaye would say, "seeeee ya!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2006, 12:07:36 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 17, 2006, 12:05:02 AM
I dont know if I have deserved it for anything but I'll take a plus K.....

anyone....

anyone....

Oddly enough SC is a run team on third down (er, maybe not oddly enough) most of their pass attempts come on first down.

Yeah. I would assume for the element of surprise.  No one ever thinks SC will pass, and then it comes on First down and you are really stunned!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 17, 2006, 10:23:37 AM
is is just me, or should every poll (front page and PP) be named "Which team/conference do you like/hate the most?"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 12:56:48 AM
This board didn't get much Play today.... My predictions are as follows (modified slightly from earlier in the week)

Wilkes 38
Washington and Lee  10

The more I learn about W&L and Wilkes, the more lopsided I think the game is....

Springfield 39
Curry  24

Springfield misses 3 EPs along the way...

SJF  35
Union 36

As close as you can get... I just have a gut feeling about this one, but my brain says it could go either way.

Rowan 21
Hobart 0

Rowan's defense gets the shutout! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 18, 2006, 01:28:16 AM
Jeez how did i lose karma i didnt say anything for an entire day!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 01:41:26 AM
Somebody must have been catching up from previous days!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 18, 2006, 01:43:27 AM
Yeah they got me good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 18, 2006, 01:44:22 AM
Well 2 people hit me up with +karma so i gotta be thankful for that....goodluck to everyone tomorrow and as much as superman get sunder my skin and im rooting for union....sjf goodluck to respresent the E8
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 01:47:23 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 18, 2006, 01:44:22 AM
Well 2 people hit me up with +karma so i gotta be thankful for that....goodluck to everyone tomorrow and as much as superman get sunder my skin and im rooting for union....sjf goodluck to respresent the E8

And Springfield, good luck too... if they play any lick of Defense I think they should win...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 18, 2006, 01:49:06 AM
I sure hope so....Curry this year is definitley better than NEFC champs of the past but i think SC should win by at least 2 scores as well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Olinemom on November 18, 2006, 02:06:15 AM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 18, 2006, 01:28:16 AM
Jeez how did i lose karma i didnt say anything for an entire day!
so now you have another plus karma on your way up.  Have a great day of football tomorrow while there are those of us in withdrawal
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dea on November 18, 2006, 09:19:23 AM
Will be a BIG day for the DUTCHMEN....GO UNION        Union 31   SJF  24
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 18, 2006, 10:07:19 AM
Rowan 30 Statesmen 14  Big Day in Glassboro!

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattyt02 on November 18, 2006, 11:06:05 AM
SC 34, Curry 24

Matt
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 18, 2006, 12:38:39 PM
1st round update,


Wilkes 21 W&L 0

Start 2nd
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 12:40:33 PM
Other Scores:

Hobart 7
Rowan 3  13 mins or so left in 2nd

SJF 7 (??)
Union 0

Springfield 7
Curry 0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 18, 2006, 12:42:10 PM
81 yrd TD run #8

Wilkes 28-0

11:21 left in 1st half
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 18, 2006, 01:01:34 PM
Half

28-0  Wilkes


Some stats

#8 WU over 120 rushing
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 18, 2006, 01:15:55 PM
Rowan Hobart 10-10 at the half....late profs TD pass

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 01:20:28 PM
Scores at the Half around the East:

Wilkes lead W&L 28-0
Fisher up on Union 28-3
Rowan and Hobart tied at 10
Springfield leads Curry 28-0

The only entertaining game seems to be the profs and Statesmen!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 01:22:29 PM
Around the Nation:

Wittenberg   14   at   Capital   20      HALF
Dickinson   13   at   Wesley   21      HALF
Millsaps   0   at   Carnegie Mellon   0      13:22 3rd.
Washington and Jefferson   20   at   Christopher Newport   0      HALF   

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 01:26:56 PM
Mount Union leads Hope 42-0.... AT THE HALF!!!!  They are just on a whole another level than the rest of D3.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 18, 2006, 01:35:15 PM
Quote from: portgrad2004 on November 18, 2006, 01:26:56 PM
Mount Union leads Hope 42-0.... AT THE HALF!!!!  They are just on a whole another level than the rest of D3.

true, but hope is the "NEFC" team in that bracket
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3 Fan on November 18, 2006, 02:42:52 PM
No joy, no hope, no anything for the NEFC.  Here's hoping for next year!!!!  :(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2006, 04:35:28 PM
Well the vote seems to be correct, the E8 is by far the conference to be bragging here...

    Which East Region Posting Board will have the most to brag about after Saturday?
Empire 8         -10 (34.5%)
Liberty League         -9 (31%)
NJAC         -5 (17.2%)
NEFC         -2 (6.9%)
MAC         -3 (10.3%)

New one coming right up
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: waggle09 on November 18, 2006, 11:49:56 PM
I was pretty accurate with  my playoff prediction,,,,Springfield over Curry 42-12....Springfield is a well coached and outstanding team and the conference that they play in  well as the NY teams are tough... Good luck Springfield.. I think that they will have further success in the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2006, 11:53:00 PM
Jonny Utah
All-American


Karma: 224
Online

Posts: 2510


Ithaca shall be avenged!!!!!


      Re: New England Football Conference
« Reply #1046 on: November 12, 2006, 07:44:55 pm »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: The Truth 00 on November 12, 2006, 07:41:38 pm
oh yea, what kind of bonus is that??  curry will score some points but they aren't ready for springfield. get real nefc fans. they also have to play at springfield on the concrete turf against arguably the best player in all of d3. stop being so naive people.


Hey, I think SC will win 48-14.  Im just saying the Curry d-cord is very familiar with Springfields offense (and defense) thats all.
 

Report to moderator    71.232.159.149 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/


Wags, I was almost as close........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACguy on November 19, 2006, 01:48:51 PM
congrats to wilkes, rowan, fisher, and springfield

Pat, or anyone who would happen to know.... the wilkes field was in rough shape after the rain all week... IF the game isn't played at wilkes... where would it be played and when would that be determined?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 19, 2006, 09:08:27 PM
Wow no wonder Wilkes has a great team who had a great year.  Look at their roster- almost half their players are from Jersey.  Smart recruiting.  Good game on tap for Saturday.

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 20, 2006, 07:44:31 AM
Quote from: MACguy on November 19, 2006, 01:48:51 PM
congrats to wilkes, rowan, fisher, and springfield

Pat, or anyone who would happen to know.... the wilkes field was in rough shape after the rain all week... IF the game isn't played at wilkes... where would it be played and when would that be determined?


Kings?  ;D ;D ;D. I'm sure they'd love to help you out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 20, 2006, 12:26:33 PM
Hats off to the Profs for a tough win and their "refuse to lose" attitude. 8) 

Hobart played an inspired game and the coach showed a lot of ba**s going for 2 trying to give his players the opportunity to win the game. 

Profs played well but the dropped balls have to stop.  There must have been 8-10 balls dropped and, in the playoffs, even 1 can bite you on the ass. 

Still some questionable play calling ... 3rd and 3 in the middle of a pretty good drive and they go long instead of short to get the 1st down and keep the drive going .... long ball dropped ... drive over - PUNT!  Still too much inside running leaving Orihel with 3rd and long situations.  In the Willy P game and towards the end of the Cortland game, rolling Orihel out for short passes to the flat and over the middle to the SBs and WRs almost looked too easy ... keep that up... it moves the chains.  With 4 TEs on the roster, why is it that we very rarely, if ever, throw to them.

The "D" gave up more than usual but still did a good job.  Go after those Wilkes Colonels this week guys.

The Beast of the East attitude is still lurking in the 'boro. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2006, 04:42:57 PM
Conrad!!!!!!

Don't they use the same field!!!!! ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 20, 2006, 04:53:00 PM
No they both have different fields, and MACguy there will be no Alt. field, it will be played Sat at Wilkes starting at Noon. Also it is sech. to rain here in NEPA on Fri. With the soggy field and both of these amazing D's it will be quite an intresting game.


Wilkes 21  RU 14  (2OT)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MACguy on November 20, 2006, 07:05:56 PM
yes, i found out today that the game will stay at wilkes... less travel for us... but i dont agree with the score... and there will be no overtime... wilkes wins in 60 minutes 14-3... and to be honest... i think those 2 td's will be on big plays because of that prof's great D there will be no long drives... and the 3 for RU... wilkes D will bend but won't break... gonna be a great one  ;D

p.s. this is just a prediction, not a guarantee (confidence is key)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 10:01:58 PM
Which was most surprising about Round 1? Rowan struggling, but Beating Hobart   3 (17.6%)
Hobart going for 2 to take the lead   6 (35.3%)
Fisher dismantling Union   7 (41.2%)
Wilke's Shutout of W&L   1 (5.9%)


New Poll to come.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:06:54 PM
PG04 do me a favor and say your picking Springfield
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 10:07:27 PM
I will say no such thing, I have yet to vote!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:08:06 PM
please say your picking springfield...you have been a goodluck charm for fisher....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 10:09:17 PM
I am going to stick to my word that I will NOT make a written prediction this week!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:10:32 PM
hahaha... ya but two weeks in a row you picked against fisher and two weeks in a row fisher destroyed it's oppenant
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 10:12:09 PM
yeah but logic says I will be right one of these weeks...but I will not attempt it.   :D

I wonder if Tags has been outcast to pergatory.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:13:20 PM
I don't know pat was pretty mad at him yesterday
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 10:14:25 PM
That will teach him for calling me a Toolbox!  Just kidding.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:15:50 PM
I called fan of d3 an idiot multiple times...my karma just hit the toliet...then when I stopped calling people idiot;s my karma made a turn around
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 10:22:10 PM
Pretty quiet here in the east as the teams thin out in the playoffs
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2006, 10:40:15 PM
I didn't suspend Tags, no.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:43:49 PM
So pat any big plans for thanksgiving...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 20, 2006, 10:43:49 PM
So pat any big plans for thanksgiving...

Hopefully it has nothing to do with this site or NBC!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 11:06:39 PM
mine our sitting in front of my 50 inch HD plasma TV and watching the cowboys wipe the field with the bucs (sorry jose)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:11:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2006, 10:40:15 PM
I didn't suspend Tags, no.

Pat & I are on good terms - don't believe everything you read in the papers!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 20, 2006, 11:13:23 PM
jeeze tags I keep trying to give you karma and you keep losing it like nobodies buisness
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 20, 2006, 11:13:23 PM
jeeze tags I keep trying to give you karma and you keep losing it like nobodies buisness

No sweat man, not worried about it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:15:30 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:11:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2006, 10:40:15 PM
I didn't suspend Tags, no.

Pat & I are on good terms - don't believe everything you read in the papers!

But if it's in print it MUST be true!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:17:54 PM
Been on for 5 minutes ... Down 1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:19:17 PM
You lurkers need a better night job.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:20:14 PM
I went down 3 in the course of Today while I was at work, apparantly the day crew was not very happy with some of my comments!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:22:44 PM
Wow - I think it's b/c we're E8er's ... well not you technically, but you do reside from there.

See, someone knocking your karma down is just ridiculous, you are a very political poster. Lurking should be illegal on here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:24:07 PM
Political Aspirations? Maybe I should run for d3football.com President!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:24:53 PM
Pat are you monitoring this - I think we've got a d3 future employee in the works!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:25:59 PM
Port is that your poll? It's all messed up
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:28:06 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:24:53 PM
Pat are you monitoring this - I think we've got a d3 future employee in the works!

If I lived anywhere near a D3 School I wouldn't mind being an employee  ;) ;) ;).  Not really for the pay (as not many of the volunteers get paid, hence volunteering), but just to have some fun.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:28:32 PM
What's wrong with it. I don't see anything, 5 have voted.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:29:36 PM
I'm seeing this:

springfield at rowan
springfield at wilkes
fisher at rowan
fisher at wilkes
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:30:10 PM
Read the question again, then read the answers more closely  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:30:10 PM
Read the question again, then read the answers more closely  :)

There it is - long day.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:33:29 PM
Tell me about it, I blew a tire out this morning driving to work...Going right along until all of a sudden POP then screeeeeeeeeeeeech rumble rumble rumble....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:36:29 PM
That sucks man - hopefully a quick donut was attached and away you went.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:37:36 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:36:29 PM
That sucks man - hopefully a quick donut was attached and away you went.

Well it would have been if I actually had a spare in the car, However I did not...long story..lol
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:40:37 PM
Ha, come on port - you have to be prepared man! Or have Triple-A ... much easier.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:41:16 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:40:37 PM
Ha, come on port - you have to be prepared man! Or have Triple-A ... much easier.

It wasn't my fault, that was the long story...but I do have Triple-A, which is indeed much easier.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:43:03 PM
Where in FL did you say you were? I have relatives in Melbourne
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:44:35 PM
Everyone I talk to seems to have relatives in Melbourne!

Anyway I'm in West Palm, about 1.5-2 hours south of there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:44:49 PM
Superman wake up
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:45:37 PM
Was down in Melbourne in June actually. I'm not sure I could live there ... as much as I trash it, I kind of like the seasons of NY.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:46:28 PM
I dislike Snow immensely, so it's OK for me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:47:51 PM
Well I do also - I just couldn't believe how humid it was. I say I like the seasons now... until I'm digging out my car in January of course.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:48:40 PM
Summer here is like the winter up there....you just don't want or desire to go outside.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:50:58 PM
What are you doing down there if you don't mind me asking?

I've often thought of the jump south - haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:52:31 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:50:58 PM
What are you doing down there if you don't mind me asking?

I've often thought of the jump south - haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Job opportunities are much more available here, basically.  A couple weeks after graduation I got an Interview and was hired, and here I am. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:54:46 PM
Not a lot of confidence in Fisher yet on the poll. Hope those guys don't have money on that game...

"cough" RT  "cough"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 21, 2006, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 11:52:31 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:50:58 PM
What are you doing down there if you don't mind me asking?

I've often thought of the jump south - haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Job opportunities are much more available here, basically.  A couple weeks after graduation I got an Interview and was hired, and here I am. 

Eh, I've heard that but we'll see. I'm in a good situation here in Rochester so I'll stay the course until my masters is complete. Then all bets are off.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 21, 2006, 12:09:14 AM
I'm here...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2006, 08:09:54 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 20, 2006, 11:54:46 PM
Not a lot of confidence in Fisher yet on the poll. Hope those guys don't have money on that game...

"cough" RT  "cough"

i just voted so you cant blame RT for everything
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 21, 2006, 08:32:05 AM
in case anyone wants to know, gro is the other guy that voted fisher and wilkes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 21, 2006, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2006, 04:42:57 PM
Conrad!!!!!!

Don't they use the same field!!!!! ???

Notice these  ;D ;D ;D  I was joking.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 21, 2006, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: Conrad on November 21, 2006, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2006, 04:42:57 PM
Conrad!!!!!!

Don't they use the same field!!!!! ???

Notice these  ;D ;D ;D  I was joking.

But so were you. I think. ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 21, 2006, 04:40:17 PM
Conrad
I actually gave myself a geography lesson and I was WRONG. They do have a different field..
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 24, 2006, 04:43:01 PM
Since Montclair laid an egg and decided that they were to good for the ECAC, I find myself pulling for Rowan(I guess I have to go to confession). ;)

I voted Rowan - Fisher.

If Fisher can keep the Springfield QB (Semi) in check they should have a good chance to win. I think Rowan is starting to get on a roll. After we took them out in OT, they seemed to awake. Wilkes is a real good team, but I think Rowan has a lot to show everyone. It should be a real close one. Let's see how Rowan can do on the grass.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUMAC on November 25, 2006, 01:12:14 AM
Wilkes U vs Rowan U

12pm start

can be heard here

http://wclh.org/ (http://wclh.org/)


BELIEVE
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 25, 2006, 04:25:10 AM
Predictions:

Rowan 21
Wilkes 19

Fisher 31
Springfield 45

Because I just predicted this, that means Wilkes and Fisher will be moving on  :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 25, 2006, 11:28:55 AM
what is everyone still asleep?

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 25, 2006, 11:46:18 AM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 25, 2006, 11:28:55 AM
what is everyone still asleep?

CK

getting my audio stream set up for the sjf-sc game...nobody is around these days
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 25, 2006, 12:02:27 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 25, 2006, 11:46:18 AM
Quote from: RowanTexan on November 25, 2006, 11:28:55 AM
what is everyone still asleep?

CK

getting my audio stream set up for the sjf-sc game...nobody is around these days

I was asleep....didn't you see when I posted last night?   :)

Good luck to all teams!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 25, 2006, 12:04:19 PM
Sounds like Mann and Rossi are in a fishbowl...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 25, 2006, 12:31:43 PM
I see Rowan is up 7-0, was it a long drive? defensive play?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2006, 01:53:13 PM
Unfortunately the limited capacity of each team's server is full. Nobody new can get in to listen to that game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 26, 2006, 12:57:04 AM
     Who wins this weekend?
Springfield and Wilkes         -8 (22.2%)
Springfield and Rowan         -14 (38.9%)
Fisher and Wilkes         -5 (13.9%)
Fisher and Rowan         -9 (25%)

The 9 of you who guessed right, Congrats.  The 8 of you who guessed completely wrong, What were you thinking!  ;)

New poll for the upcoming week! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: truebluefan05 on November 26, 2006, 01:02:19 PM
just trying to clear something up, isn't rowan playing AT fisher? It says on the schedules that they're playing at Rowan, but I would think they were playing at fisher since they are the better seed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 26, 2006, 01:11:46 PM
You're right, truebluefan05, it should be at St. John Fisher. Someone will catch that sooner or later. Or a trip to Pittsford Saterday would be a bummer if they in fact were in Joisey.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 26, 2006, 03:04:21 PM
Au what are the chances the band will come up to rochester for the game
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 26, 2006, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: truebluefan05 on November 26, 2006, 01:02:19 PM
just trying to clear something up, isn't rowan playing AT fisher? It says on the schedules that they're playing at Rowan, but I would think they were playing at fisher since they are the better seed.

Trueblue:

Not to be a nitpicker about semantics but I think that Rowan fans would prefer to call Fisher the "higher" seed ..... not "better" seed.  8)

We'll find that out next Saturday! ;)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: radiomike on November 28, 2006, 12:53:05 AM
Quote from: RU Fan on November 26, 2006, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: truebluefan05 on November 26, 2006, 01:02:19 PM
just trying to clear something up, isn't rowan playing AT fisher? It says on the schedules that they're playing at Rowan, but I would think they were playing at fisher since they are the better seed.

Trueblue:

Not to be a nitpicker about semantics but I think that Rowan fans would prefer to call Fisher the "higher" seed ..... not "better" seed.  8)

We'll find that out next Saturday! ;)
Wow, no one wanted to pick up on this one...You could choose your "seed"
Bad Seed
Demon Seed
Hay Seed

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 28, 2006, 02:05:10 PM
I picked all 8 Region finalists... I should be up high in the standings when they are updated

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 28, 2006, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 26, 2006, 03:04:21 PM
Au what are the chances the band will come up to rochester for the game
Superman57:
What are the chances that Fisher students would want the AU pep band there? At this point, would need a trumpet or two to make it happen. The one trumpet I've spoken with isn't buying in (taking an exam Saturday because of a scheduling conflict). Could muster a sousaphone, bass drum, kazoo, but need a trumpet or two to make it work. AU Pep Band would not want to step on any Fisher toes....perhaps cheers after Fisher first downs. Refuse, however, to compete with canned music.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 28, 2006, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 28, 2006, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 26, 2006, 03:04:21 PM
Au what are the chances the band will come up to rochester for the game
Superman57:
What are the chances that Fisher students would want the AU pep band there? At this point, would need a trumpet or two to make it happen. The one trumpet I've spoken with isn't buying in (taking an exam Saturday because of a scheduling conflict). Could muster a sousaphone, bass drum, kazoo, but need a trumpet or two to make it work. AU Pep Band would not want to step on any Fisher toes....perhaps cheers after Fisher first downs. Refuse, however, to compete with canned music.

I think it would be welcomed Pep. Only after TD's would you have to compete with any other music.

Which will hopefully be about 5-6 times Saterday :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 28, 2006, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Tags on November 28, 2006, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 28, 2006, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: Superman57 on November 26, 2006, 03:04:21 PM
Au what are the chances the band will come up to rochester for the game
Superman57:
What are the chances that Fisher students would want the AU pep band there? At this point, would need a trumpet or two to make it happen. The one trumpet I've spoken with isn't buying in (taking an exam Saturday because of a scheduling conflict). Could muster a sousaphone, bass drum, kazoo, but need a trumpet or two to make it work. AU Pep Band would not want to step on any Fisher toes....perhaps cheers after Fisher first downs. Refuse, however, to compete with canned music.

I think it would be welcomed Pep. Only after TD's would you have to compete with any other music.

Which will hopefully be about 5-6 times Saterday :)

Well, traditionally, after TDs, AU plays its fight song, sings through it, then plays it again (which usually occurs right after the PAT) so the band wouldn't bother playing after TDs....Fisher fans wouldn't want to hear AU's fight song!  :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 29, 2006, 12:43:44 AM
What was most shocking about Round 2?

Springfield only scoring 21   5 (21.7%)
Wilkes Fumbling when trying to run the clock out   11 (47.8%)
Rowan gutting out another game   2 (8.7%)
Fisher's Defensive turnaround from prior meeting   5 (21.7%)

Total Voters: 23

Almost half believed that the Wilkes Blunder was the most shocking of the week.

New and more important poll up now!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 29, 2006, 12:47:11 AM
Also, when you vote, please make a post describing why you picked the choice you did.  It makes for interesting conversation!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 29, 2006, 01:25:38 PM
Picked Rowan in a close one. Both teams are good and I do no expect any team winning by more then (10). I feel that Rowan has the better "D" and their QB should not throw 3 picks again. The Rowan "O" should improve every game, the question is : "how much and can they make it out of Rochester" I think they will.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 29, 2006, 05:10:37 PM
Picked Fisher in a close one....

Both D's are pretty good, so its a wash IMO.  This game will come down what offense will be more effective.  I have a hard time thinking that an offense that is averaging over 400yds and 40 points a game is not going to be effective. 

SJF's O will do enough to win vs the Rowan D.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 29, 2006, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 29, 2006, 01:25:38 PM
Picked Rowan in a close one. Both teams are good and I do no expect any team winning by more then (10). I feel that Rowan has the better "D" and their QB should not throw 3 picks again. The Rowan "O" should improve every game, the question is : "how much and can they make it out of Rochester" I think they will.

He's had more INT's than TD's this year - and he's only averaging ~160 yds / game if I remember right. I'm not sure that's going to be enough.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 29, 2006, 08:17:46 PM
That's why they play the game. Rowan wins, SJF keeps it close.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 29, 2006, 08:48:19 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 29, 2006, 08:17:46 PM
That's why they play the game. Rowan wins, SJF keeps it close.

Certainly agree with your statement about that's why they play the game, but with no running game & 175 yards in the air, how will they put the points up on a very good Fisher defense?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 29, 2006, 08:50:40 PM
SJF in a close one:  To be honest I am picking Fisher for obvious reasons....loyalty...to try and be neutral is next to impossible especially at this juncture.  If SJF offense gets out of the gate early and often Fisher is capable of a rout.  They must avoid the second half mental meltdowns (players and coaches) ala Norwich and Del Val 2004.  A close game and it could be trouble b/c most likely a close game with this matchup is a low scoring game that Rowan has clearly shown a history of pulling out.  So why the Fisher in a 'close one' pick?  I guess I am going with my heart on this one and being conservative at the same time..  Hey if they blow em out (+10) great and all the better.

I am still awed by the fact that 'we' are one game from a likely trip to Alliance....WOW!
I am still good friends with a guy I met in law school who played on 3 consecutive stagg bowl champ. teams with MUC with his senior season ending in a Stagg bowl loss to Rowan (THEIR ONLY LOSS IN HIS 4 SEASONS)  He sent me an email today 'beggin' SJF "to kick Rowan's assssssssssssssss"  Give or take an 's'.  Maybe he would just rather MUC play SJF but isnt telling me?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 29, 2006, 09:12:58 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 29, 2006, 08:50:40 PM
SJF in a close one:  To be honest I am picking Fisher for obvious reasons....loyalty...to try and be neutral is next to impossible especially at this juncture.  If SJF offense gets out of the gate early and often Fisher is capable of a rout.  They must avoid the second half mental meltdowns (players and coaches) ala Norwich and Del Val 2004.  A close game and it could be trouble b/c most likely a close game with this matchup is a low scoring game that Rowan has clearly shown a history of pulling out.  So why the Fisher in a 'close one' pick?  I guess I am going with my heart on this one and being conservative at the same time..  Hey if they blow em out (+10) great and all the better.

I am still awed by the fact that 'we' are one game from a likely trip to Alliance....WOW!
I am still good friends with a guy I met in law school who played on 3 consecutive stagg bowl champ. teams with MUC with his senior season ending in a Stagg bowl loss to Rowan (THEIR ONLY LOSS IN HIS 4 SEASONS)  He sent me an email today 'beggin' SJF "to kick Rowan's assssssssssssssss"  Give or take an 's'.  Maybe he would just rather MUC play SJF but isnt telling me?

I say take away 2 to 3 s's depending on the type of day our Defense has & we'll be ok.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RU Fan on November 29, 2006, 11:16:32 PM
I voted for RU in a close one.  RU has the playoff experience year in and year out.    When you get to the Quarterfinals, the presure just increases.  Each week, the game is against another top tier team and ...... if you lose ...... you go home.

If RU starts quickly and gets ahead of SJF, it will be interesting to see how SJF can (or can't) handle the pressure.  If SJF starts quickly and gets ahead, RU has been dealing with pressure games all year long.

There aren't many QBs that I would want running my offense in a tight game rather than Mike Orihel.  He's shown this year that he's a warrior. 

SJF appears to be a quality team and it should be a fun game to watch.  I think the bottom line is ...... whichever team makes the most mistakes will be handing in equipment on Monday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 29, 2006, 11:21:20 PM
I chose fisher in a close game...and this is why...

Rowan D=Better than the Fisher D but not substantially enough to make a difference

Fisher o =a lot better than Rowan o and this is where the game will come down to...Rowan wil have a hard time to score on fisher esspecially if they turn the ball over.  If fisher can get over there mental mistakes that they made against springfield and just the fact that I have a feeling that this game is going to get crazy in the stands I think the homefield advantage and the fact that all of fisher is going to be at this game gives them just a slight advantage
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on November 29, 2006, 11:29:33 PM
Voted for Fisher by 10+

That's not a knock on Rowan- I know they have a great squad. You can throw all of this experience talk out the window in the 3rd round of the playoffs in my opinon. Fisher has a lot of players who went in 2004, and they've had real big games this year already w/ a lot on the line (Alfred - got down early & won ... Springfield in 2nd round, same thing)

I think that Fisher will be able to run the ball very well because they will be able to control the LOS. I think we're going to see the Robinson of old in this one - Look for Fisher to give him 30+ this game...

The safeties like to come up and create a 3-5 look, but I feel Kramer will keep them honest - and make them pay if they squeeze the box too much.

I also like Fisher's Defense against this Rowan offense, and I don't see Rowan putting up too many points. This is probably my biggest reason for the pick - Fisher will put up points, even if it's only 21-28 points against this tough Rowan defense... I don't think Rowan can put up that many on Fisher's D.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to a great game this Saturday!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 30, 2006, 12:08:50 AM
Quote from: Tags on November 29, 2006, 11:29:33 PM
Voted for Fisher by 10+

That's not a knock on Rowan- I know they have a great squad. You can throw all of this experience talk out the window in the 3rd round of the playoffs in my opinon. Fisher has a lot of players who went in 2004, and they've had real big games this year already w/ a lot on the line (Alfred - got down early & won ... Springfield in 2nd round, same thing)

I think that Fisher will be able to run the ball very well because they will be able to control the LOS. I think we're going to see the Robinson of old in this one - Look for Fisher to give him 30+ this game...

The safeties like to come up and create a 3-5 look, but I feel Kramer will keep them honest - and make them pay if they squeeze the box too much.

I also like Fisher's Defense against this Rowan offense, and I don't see Rowan putting up too many points. This is probably my biggest reason for the pick - Fisher will put up points, even if it's only 21-28 points against this tough Rowan defense... I don't think Rowan can put up that many on Fisher's D.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to a great game this Saturday!
Well said, although I think that any experience gained by SJF in the 04 Del Val game could easily (and unfortunately) be negated by a coaching blunder....let's say: passing on 3rd and 7 from your own 30 yd line with the lead when the opponent has no time outs left and a decent punt presents a 70 yd drive with under a minute to go and no timeouts....by the way, I understand that a similar situation occurred in the Norwich game that year as well.

Here's hoping the situation doesnt even present itself this weekend...I started to get worried against SC last week as it appeared SJF may be heading down that road again late in the game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on November 30, 2006, 03:27:15 PM
Rowan 21 or 28

SJF 13

CK
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 30, 2006, 04:11:00 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 30, 2006, 12:08:50 AM
Well said, although I think that any experience gained by SJF in the 04 Del Val game could easily (and unfortunately) be negated by a coaching blunder....let's say: passing on 3rd and 7 from your own 30 yd line with the lead when the opponent has no time outs left and a decent punt presents a 70 yd drive with under a minute to go and no timeouts....by the way, I understand that a similar situation occurred in the Norwich game that year as well.

Here's hoping the situation doesnt even present itself this weekend...I started to get worried against SC last week as it appeared SJF may be heading down that road again late in the game...
[/quote]

A) that game was tied at 20 when the pick was thrown.

B) The Norwich game, SJF attempted a pass that was picked off at the NU 20yd line, NU had 80yards to go after the pick. NU actually got 79yds but were still credited with the TD.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RowanTexan on December 01, 2006, 04:54:23 PM
Rowan 35

SJF 14
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 01, 2006, 09:26:10 PM
Quote from: RowanTexan on December 01, 2006, 04:54:23 PM
Rowan 35

SJF 14

I think you just had a dyslexic post.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 02, 2006, 07:27:54 PM
Who wins on Saturday?
Rowan by 10+         -2 (8.7%)
Rowan in a close one         -7 (30.4%)
Fisher by 10+         -4 (17.4%)
Fisher in a close one         -10 (43.5%)


Congrats to the 4 that got it right!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 02, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Apparently they cant throw the ball worth beans, so if they dont have Garcon back (heard he may have a concussion on the OAC board) It will be close to the end. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2006, 11:51:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 02, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Apparently they cant throw the ball worth beans, so if they dont have Garcon back (heard he may have a concussion on the OAC board) It will be close to the end. 

Hadn't heard about Garcon -- I know Jorris, the passing quarterback of the two, did not play in the second half but that could've been performance related.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Mount Union can't throw the ball.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 02, 2006, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2006, 11:51:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 02, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Apparently they cant throw the ball worth beans, so if they dont have Garcon back (heard he may have a concussion on the OAC board) It will be close to the end. 

Hadn't heard about Garcon -- I know Jorris, the passing quarterback of the two, did not play in the second half but that could've been performance related.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Mount Union can't throw the ball.

I'm sure they're extremely well balanced upstate. It'll be tough to stop them... I don't think they'll be able to put up the rushing numbers they are accustomed to however.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 03, 2006, 12:46:24 AM
Quote from: Tags on December 02, 2006, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2006, 11:51:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 02, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Apparently they cant throw the ball worth beans, so if they dont have Garcon back (heard he may have a concussion on the OAC board) It will be close to the end. 

Hadn't heard about Garcon -- I know Jorris, the passing quarterback of the two, did not play in the second half but that could've been performance related.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Mount Union can't throw the ball.

I'm sure they're extremely well balanced upstate. It'll be tough to stop them... I don't think they'll be able to put up the rushing numbers they are accustomed to however.

This is ALMOST tantamount to saying "They've never seen a Rushing Defense like St. John Fisher's before!"  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on December 03, 2006, 12:49:32 AM
question how similar is the MUC offense to SC's offense...I don''t mean talent I mean are they the same type
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 03, 2006, 12:52:11 AM
Quote from: Superman57 on December 03, 2006, 12:49:32 AM
question how similar is the MUC offense to SC's offense...I don''t mean talent I mean are they the same type

I'm not completely sure but they are much more pass oriented than SC for sure, just today they really went with the bread and butter with Kmic.  In no way is this a triple option offense. 

As far as I thought, MUC can have a very potent passing offense as well. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on December 11, 2006, 11:37:37 PM
Kmic is a beast. Now that he's accustomed to wearing purple, AUPepBand thinks he'd have a promising and lucrative career in ceramic engineering....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on October 11, 2007, 08:21:28 PM
I think MUC will win......




get it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on October 15, 2007, 09:35:42 PM
MUC is the class of the nation...i think they will win handily...but not as easily as they have been accustomed to the past few weeks
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on October 15, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on October 15, 2007, 09:35:42 PM
MUC is the class of the nation...i think they will win handily...but not as easily as they have been accustomed to the past few weeks
Boxer...are you kiddin, or did you not realize that this poll was for last year's natinoal semi-final game that was played to a 26-14 conclusion already...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 15, 2007, 11:49:51 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on October 15, 2007, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on October 15, 2007, 09:35:42 PM
MUC is the class of the nation...i think they will win handily...but not as easily as they have been accustomed to the past few weeks
Boxer...are you kiddin, or did you not realize that this poll was for last year's natinoal semi-final game that was played to a 26-14 conclusion already...

zing!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on October 16, 2007, 11:07:02 AM
haha my bad
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:06 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on October 18, 2007, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:06 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

Thanks Pat.  Aside from Mt. Union missing, there are also only 222 total schools listed.  It also appears that the SOS order is based on Opponent's winning percentage with Opponent's Opponent's winning percentage as a tie-breaker.  Is that how this statistic will be used for Pool C bids or will it be some average (perhaps weighted) of both OWP and OOWP?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 02:35:17 PM
"The number next to them is where they rank in opponents' winning percentage (though without ties). Provisional Division III teams and the NESCAC, which does not participate in the playoffs, are not listed."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on October 18, 2007, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 02:35:17 PM
"The number next to them is where they rank in opponents' winning percentage (though without ties). Provisional Division III teams and the NESCAC, which does not participate in the playoffs, are not listed."

Okay, so the provisional and NESCAC teams were ranked just not listed.  Thanks for the clarification.  Now, will the OOWP only be used to break the OWP tie-breaker or will that be calculated in to the SOS figure?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 20, 2007, 04:00:47 PM
AUKaz, the NESCAC is a closed system.  They play no games out of conference, and therefore they do not impact the OOWP or OWP.

Games versus third-year and fourth-year provisionals (of which I know none in the East Region this year) are also counted towards the championship.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on October 22, 2007, 09:35:20 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on October 18, 2007, 03:07:29 PM

Okay, so . . . will the OOWP only be used to break the OWP tie-breaker or will that be calculated in to the SOS figure?

I believe it was Frank Rossi who did yeoman research work on this topic.  It appears from the text of the Playoff Handbook that OOWP analysis is separate from OWP analysis, and further that OOWP will only be used to break ties in OWP, for teams that have similar records.  By that charter, I'll be surprised if OOWP is used at all in any selection analysis.

So hey, NCAA, thanks for mentioning the concept of Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage, at least it gives us a chance to shout out to PrestoSports, who provided the stats to D3football.com
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 22, 2007, 11:40:18 AM
Quote from: redswarm81 on October 22, 2007, 09:35:20 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on October 18, 2007, 03:07:29 PM

Okay, so . . . will the OOWP only be used to break the OWP tie-breaker or will that be calculated in to the SOS figure?

I believe it was Frank Rossi who did yeoman research work on this topic.  It appears from the text of the Playoff Handbook that OOWP analysis is separate from OWP analysis, and further that OOWP will only be used to break ties in OWP, for teams that have similar records.  By that charter, I'll be surprised if OOWP is used at all in any selection analysis.

So hey, NCAA, thanks for mentioning the concept of Opponents' Opponents' Winning Percentage, at least it gives us a chance to shout out to PrestoSports, who provided the stats to D3football.com

PrestoSports in da hizzy!!

Just doesn't roll off the tongue like I thought it would...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on October 22, 2007, 12:36:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 22, 2007, 11:40:18 AM

PrestoSports in da hizzy!!

Just doesn't roll off the tongue like I thought it would...

I don't know Frank,  sometimes you just can't tell until you hear it broadcast and webcast over WRUC--give it a shot on Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 05, 2007, 06:45:41 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at play-off prognostications?

Obviously with TCNJ and Widener clinching, we've got 2 of the 8 potential Eastern Regional spots filled.  Curry is likely to win the NEFC AQ as well leaving 5 more spots open.

My best guess is SJF wins the E8 with a victory over Alfred.  Wick finishes 8-2 with a win over Utica and a good looking Pool C case with victories over SJF and IC but man does that WNEC loss look bad.  The Cortaca winner has a good case for Pool C consideration, but not sure what the committee will think?

I think Hobart will beat Rochester and be in a position to take the AQ if Union beats RPI.  The Engineers have been struggling of late, and could be running out of gas.  If RPI wins and gets the AQ, I think even an 8-2 Hobart team getting the Pool C could be a stretch.  There are a lot of other in and outside the region teams with 1 or 2 loss records. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 05, 2007, 06:52:25 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 05, 2007, 06:45:41 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at play-off prognostications?

Obviously with TCNJ and Widener clinching, we've got 2 of the 8 potential Eastern Regional spots filled.  Curry is likely to win the NEFC AQ as well leaving 5 more spots open.

My best guess is SJF wins the E8 with a victory over Alfred.  Wick finishes 8-2 with a win over Utica and a good looking Pool C case with victories over SJF and IC but man does that WNEC loss look bad.  The Cortaca winner has a good case for Pool C consideration, but not sure what the committee will think?

I think Hobart will beat Rochester and be in a position to take the AQ if Union beats RPI.  The Engineers have been struggling of late, and could be running out of gas.  If RPI wins and gets the AQ, I think even an 8-2 Hobart team getting the Pool C could be a stretch.  There are a lot of other in and outside the region teams with 1 or 2 loss records. 

Color me as someone who thinks Rochester could win the AQ. If they beat Hobart, which will be difficult, but not impossible, and RPI beats Union on the road, also difficult but not impossible, the Yellowjackets could "bee" the LL rep in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: FisherAlum05 on November 05, 2007, 06:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 05, 2007, 06:45:41 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at play-off prognostications?

Obviously with TCNJ and Widener clinching, we've got 2 of the 8 potential Eastern Regional spots filled.  Curry is likely to win the NEFC AQ as well leaving 5 more spots open.

My best guess is SJF wins the E8 with a victory over Alfred.  Wick finishes 8-2 with a win over Utica and a good looking Pool C case with victories over SJF and IC but man does that WNEC loss look bad.  The Cortaca winner has a good case for Pool C consideration, but not sure what the committee will think?

I think Hobart will beat Rochester and be in a position to take the AQ if Union beats RPI.  The Engineers have been struggling of late, and could be running out of gas.  If RPI wins and gets the AQ, I think even an 8-2 Hobart team getting the Pool C could be a stretch.  There are a lot of other in and outside the region teams with 1 or 2 loss records. 

TGP,

If SJF wins, and Wick wins then Wick gets the AQ!  Fisher will be a lock for a pool C.  If RPI takes the AQ, I still think Hobart is in at 8-2.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 05, 2007, 07:07:35 PM
Wow.  Didn't realize that about the Wick.  They should have no trouble with Utica.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 05, 2007, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 05, 2007, 07:07:35 PM
Wow.  Didn't realize that about the Wick.  They should have no trouble with Utica.



Dammit. I hope not. I hope UC can give Hartwick some trouble on Senior Day at Charles A. Gaetano Stadium.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
You guys are all overlooking Montclair. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 05, 2007, 07:51:21 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 05, 2007, 06:52:25 PM

Color me as someone who thinks Rochester could win the AQ. If they beat Hobart, which will be difficult, but not impossible, and RPI beats Union on the road, also difficult but not impossible, the Yellowjackets could "bee" the LL rep in the NCAAs.

KS had to smite you for that DC, I didn't want to do it but it had to be done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 05, 2007, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
You guys are all overlooking Montclair. ;D

True.  I forgot they were also 7-2, potentially 8-2 if/when they beat West Conn. 

However, I think Montclair will lose out to a 8-2 Cortland or an 8-2 Ithaca in a Pool C bid though since Montclair got smoked by the Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 05, 2007, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
You guys are all overlooking Montclair. ;D

True.  I forgot they were also 7-2, potentially 8-2 if/when they beat West Conn. 

However, I think Montclair will lose out to a 8-2 Cortland or an 8-2 Ithaca in a Pool C bid though since Montclair got smoked by the Dragons.

Cortland also got smoked by TCNJ (big time), you may have a point with Ithaca, but don't forget we beat Wesley in their house. I do not think anyone in the East can take down Wesley. They are huge and quick, maybe the football Gods were with us, but we did get the W.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 05, 2007, 09:34:35 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 05, 2007, 07:51:21 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 05, 2007, 06:52:25 PM

Color me as someone who thinks Rochester could win the AQ. If they beat Hobart, which will be difficult, but not impossible, and RPI beats Union on the road, also difficult but not impossible, the Yellowjackets could "bee" the LL rep in the NCAAs.

KS had to smite you for that DC, I didn't want to do it but it had to be done.

What what what?!?! Fair enough, it was cheesy. BUT IT WAS FUNNY!  :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 06, 2007, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 05, 2007, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
You guys are all overlooking Montclair. ;D

True.  I forgot they were also 7-2, potentially 8-2 if/when they beat West Conn. 

However, I think Montclair will lose out to a 8-2 Cortland or an 8-2 Ithaca in a Pool C bid though since Montclair got smoked by the Dragons.

Cortland also got smoked by TCNJ (big time), you may have a point with Ithaca, but don't forget we beat Wesley in their house. I do not think anyone in the East can take down Wesley. They are huge and quick, maybe the football Gods were with us, but we did get the W.

How do you not think any team in the east can take down Wesley, but a team that got smoked by two other east teams can?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: FisherAlum05 on November 06, 2007, 10:50:00 AM
Wesley is very beatable, and I think a handful of East Region teams could beat them.  SJF, Hobart, Ithaca, TCNJ, possibly RPI, and obviously Montclair.  Look at some their scores: They beat Del Valley 24-21, Widener 31-17, lost to Montclair, and Brockport hung very tough for a half. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 06, 2007, 01:08:54 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 06, 2007, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 05, 2007, 08:05:24 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 05, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
You guys are all overlooking Montclair. ;D

True.  I forgot they were also 7-2, potentially 8-2 if/when they beat West Conn. 

However, I think Montclair will lose out to a 8-2 Cortland or an 8-2 Ithaca in a Pool C bid though since Montclair got smoked by the Dragons.

Cortland also got smoked by TCNJ (big time), you may have a point with Ithaca, but don't forget we beat Wesley in their house. I do not think anyone in the East can take down Wesley. They are huge and quick, maybe the football Gods were with us, but we did get the W.

How do you not think any team in the east can take down Wesley, but a team that got smoked by two other east teams can?

We got smoked by Cortland, but not by TCNJ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 06, 2007, 05:39:21 PM
Wesley is one of the most talented teams in d3...you cannot take anything away from what Montclair did at their place!!!!!! Cortland smoked us and I would hope they would when we turn the ball over that many times!!!! Not taking anything away from them at all, TCNJ easily could have went the other way if not for a few big plays!!....MSU deserves to be in the dance, although it may not happen MSU has the fire power to knock off any team in the region and thats the truth...and if they don't make it best of luck though to TCNJ and Cortland rep the NJAC boys....but wow if by some possible way the Red Hawks got a bid wow!!! especially with a healthy Ryan McCoach back at tailback who destroyed Willy P last week watch out East bc these Red Hawks are for real!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 06, 2007, 05:50:10 PM
I really think that there are going to be at least 2 teams imported from the North and or South to this region.

The NJAC wont have a pool C
The LL wont have a pool C
The E8 might get one if SJF beats AU and Wick beats Utica (not a given for Wick)
The NEFC wont have a pool C
The MAC wont have a pool C

That gives us TCNJ, The LL winner, Widner, the NEFC winner and possibly 2 E8 teams (If SJF and Hartwick win)

Say SJF and Hartwick win and SJF gets the Pool C.


Who gets moved in?

I see Muhlenburgh and Wash and Jeff being moved in to the East region to fill out the bracket...

How does your bracket look?

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 06, 2007, 05:52:18 PM
Maybe they can move 2 Texas teams in... ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 06, 2007, 06:06:14 PM
Quote from: bman on November 06, 2007, 05:52:18 PM
Maybe they can move 2 Texas teams in... ;D

Just make sure they are from the same conference and play each other!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 06, 2007, 07:28:24 PM
MSUBIRDGANG,

Good post. +K  We need to smoke W. Conn this week and then pray for some dancing shoes.

The way I see the season ending in the East is as follow, all 8-2 :

Montclair
Ithaca / Cortland (the loser is out)
Hartwick / Fisher
Hobart / RPI (one wins the LL the other Pool C material)
Albright

A good case can be made for each team as a pool C. If Fisher and Hartwick win, Hartwick wins the E-8 and Fisher gets a pool C and the rest of the teams pray. If Alfred wins then it becomes more interesting. Then you have Upstates thoughts with 2 teams coming to the East.

I hope the Red Hawks go to the dance, but at least we signed up for the ECAC's this year. There will be a lot of good teams this year.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 06, 2007, 08:16:58 PM
what would have to happen for the Red Hawks to go!!! ??....ECAC's are fine but this team has some serious potential...they have no injuries McCoach is back which takes a lot of the preasure off of Jump...ahh I mean I know we didn't beat Cortland and TCNJ I know this...but were a damn good team anyone of the three TCNJ, Cortland Or MSU could def run the table in the Region thats how good the NJAC is this year... Rowan is on a down year and they were a few plays away from being undefeated..so that is 4 teams that were all ranked in the top 25 this year..very impressive!!!!!

Go Red Hawks!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 06, 2007, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 06, 2007, 08:16:58 PM
what would have to happen for the Red Hawks to go!!! ??....ECAC's are fine but this team has some serious potential...they have no injuries McCoach is back which takes a lot of the preasure off of Jump...ahh I mean I know we didn't beat Cortland and TCNJ I know this...but were a damn good team anyone of the three TCNJ, Cortland Or MSU could def run the table in the Region thats how good the NJAC is this year... Rowan is on a down year and they were a few plays away from being undefeated..so that is 4 teams that were all ranked in the top 25 this year..very impressive!!!!!

Go Red Hawks!!!!!


Kick some serious arz Saturday and say a few prayers.

LET'S  GO  MIGHTY  RED  HAWKS  !!!!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 06, 2007, 08:47:34 PM
I think everyone in the East Should say
                                                                                                                                  GO UTICA
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 06, 2007, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 06, 2007, 08:47:34 PM
I think everyone in the East Should say
                                                                                                                                  GO UTICA

OK,  GO  Utica  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 06, 2007, 09:53:20 PM
Go Hartwick!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2007, 10:04:04 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2007, 06:06:14 PM
Quote from: bman on November 06, 2007, 05:52:18 PM
Maybe they can move 2 Texas teams in... ;D

Just make sure they are from the same conference and play each other!
+1  :-\

Sad, but true!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 06, 2007, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 06, 2007, 08:47:34 PM
I think everyone in the East Should say
                                                                                                                                  GO UTICA

let me rephrase that...anyone hoping for a pool c
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 06, 2007, 11:49:03 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 06, 2007, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 06, 2007, 08:47:34 PM
I think everyone in the East Should say
                                                                                                                                  GO UTICA

let me rephrase that...anyone hoping for a pool c

All the teams that could end up 8-2 should seriously start to root for UC if they want a shot at a Pool C.....

I doubt a 2 loss team from the East gets a Pool C though....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 07, 2007, 10:10:15 AM
UTICA NEVER REALLY HEARD OF YOU....HOWEVER JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW I THINK YOU GUYS ROCK AND I AM ROUTING FOR YOU THIS WEEKEND!!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!! ...so if they win and my Red Hawk Bird Gang  Boys defeats West Conn by 40...is there a snowball chance in hell?? that we are going to the dance?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2007, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 07, 2007, 10:10:15 AM
UTICA NEVER REALLY HEARD OF YOU....HOWEVER JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW I THINK YOU GUYS ROCK AND I AM ROUTING FOR YOU THIS WEEKEND!!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!! ...so if they win and my Red Hawk Bird Gang  Boys defeats West Conn by 40...is there a snowball chance in hell?? that we are going to the dance?

Get familiar with them over the next couple of days...


www.ucpioneers.com

www.utica.edu
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 07, 2007, 02:55:44 PM
wow...just went on their website  :'( ahhhhhhhhhhhh hopefully that d end who got player of the week last week does some crazy things buuutt I prob wouldn't bet the farm on it....Go Red Hawks baby!! Go Ithica eww can't believe I have to route for them..
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2007, 04:53:06 PM
New regional rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2007/11/07/third-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 07, 2007, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2007, 04:53:06 PM
New regional rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2007/11/07/third-regional-rankings/

1. New Jersey 8-1 8-1
2. Curry 10-0 10-0
3. St. John Fisher 8-1 8-1
4. RPI 7-1 7-1
5. Hobart 7-2 7-2
6. Cortland State 6-2 7-2
7. Widener 6-2 7-2
8. Hartwick 7-2 7-2
9. Ithaca 7-2 7-2
10. Alfred 7-2 7-2

-Am I crazy in thinking that a win by Ithaca over the #6 team might jump them over the #7 or #8 teams?  Maybe the #5 or #4? 

-No Montclair?

-Is Ithaca going to need RPI to lose either way? (RPI and Roc wins, RPI has 1 loss either way?)

-Any possible chance of Curry dropping out if they lose this weekend?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 07, 2007, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 07, 2007, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2007, 04:53:06 PM
New regional rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2007/11/07/third-regional-rankings/

1. New Jersey 8-1 8-1
2. Curry 10-0 10-0
3. St. John Fisher 8-1 8-1
4. RPI 7-1 7-1
5. Hobart 7-2 7-2
6. Cortland State 6-2 7-2
7. Widener 6-2 7-2
8. Hartwick 7-2 7-2
9. Ithaca 7-2 7-2
10. Alfred 7-2 7-2

-Am I crazy in thinking that a win by Ithaca over the #6 team might jump them over the #7 or #8 teams?  Maybe the #5 or #4? 

-No Montclair?

-Is Ithaca going to need RPI to lose either way? (RPI and Roc wins, RPI has 1 loss either way?)

-Any possible chance of Curry dropping out if they lose this weekend?

Well I guess it's time to get some -K.

It appears to be an up-state love fest with the exception of Widner and Curry who are AQ's. 1 and out Curry ranked #2, give me a break. Montclair has as much right to be in the there as Alfred, Ithaca, Hartwick, Widner, Cortland and Hobart. Yea, I'm not happy, but what are you going to do. Suck it up and kick butt on Sat.

LET'S  GO  MIGHTY  RED  HAWKS  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2007, 08:38:48 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 07, 2007, 05:56:56 PM
-Am I crazy in thinking that a win by Ithaca over the #6 team might jump them over the #7 or #8 teams?  Maybe the #5 or #4? 

Doesn't really matter, since 7 and 8 have automatic bids with victories. You need to pass Pool C teams.

Pass Hobart? Possible, but not sure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 07, 2007, 11:46:21 PM
Pat,
Utah brings up a good point.....can you see Curry getting a pool 'C' with one loss??

I can't see how with the NEFC past performances, but I could see a strong negotiator like Frank Rossi making a strong arguement for them....can you drop a #2 in the East team out of the playoffs with only one season ending loss?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 07, 2007, 11:51:02 PM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 07, 2007, 02:55:44 PM
wow...just went on their website  :'( ahhhhhhhhhhhh hopefully that d end who got player of the week last week does some crazy things buuutt I prob wouldn't bet the farm on it....Go Red Hawks baby!! Go Ithica eww can't believe I have to route for them..

Is this some sort of NJAC inside joke or is he the only person in the East that can't spell IthAca??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 07, 2007, 11:56:21 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 07, 2007, 11:51:02 PM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 07, 2007, 02:55:44 PM
wow...just went on their website  :'( ahhhhhhhhhhhh hopefully that d end who got player of the week last week does some crazy things buuutt I prob wouldn't bet the farm on it....Go Red Hawks baby!! Go Ithica eww can't believe I have to route for them..

Is this some sort of NJAC inside joke or is he the only person in the East that can't spell IthAca??



I thought it was done with a lower case 'I' as well this time of year......ithica
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 10, 2007, 03:44:21 PM
In with Pool A:

TCNJ
Curry
Widener
RPI
SJF (assuming Alfred doesn't come back and Utica beats Wick)
Wick (if they beat Utica, otherwise no Pool C for Wick at 7-3)

My guess is either Wesley or Salisbury gets moved into the East Region as either the #1 or 2 seed.

Pool C contenders left:
Hobart (8-2) - won 7 straight, 2 losses by only 7 total pts
Montclair (8-2) - win against Wesley in Wk 4, beaten bad by Cortland who just got smoked by IC.
Ithaca (8-2) - Not likely a Pool C entrant if Wick takes Pool A since SJF would likely go Pool C over IC based on head to head result.

My guess is the East will look like this (4-7 could be rearranged in several diff orders):

1.  Wesley
2.  TCNJ
3.  SJF
4.  RPI
5.  Wick
6.  Hobart
7.  Curry
8.  Widener

Wesley v. Widener (short trip from PA to DE)
TCNJ v. Curry
SJF v. Hobart
RPI v. Wick
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2007, 03:47:27 PM
TGP, is Curry that good that they get in twice?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 10, 2007, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2007, 03:47:27 PM
TGP, is Curry that good that they get in twice?

Ha!  Good catch.  Not at all.  Revised above.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:14:41 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 10, 2007, 03:44:21 PM
In with Pool A:

TCNJ
Curry
Widener
RPI
SJF (assuming Alfred doesn't come back and Utica beats Wick)
Wick (if they beat Utica, otherwise no Pool C for Wick at 7-3)

My guess is either Wesley or Salisbury gets moved into the East Region as either the #1 or 2 seed.

Pool C contenders left:
Hobart (8-2) - won 7 straight, 2 losses by only 7 total pts
Montclair (8-2) - win against Wesley in Wk 4, beaten bad by Cortland who just got smoked by IC.
Ithaca (8-2) - Not likely a Pool C entrant if Wick takes Pool A since SJF would likely go Pool C over IC based on head to head result.

My guess is the East will look like this (4-7 could be rearranged in several diff orders):

1.  Wesley
2.  TCNJ
3.  SJF
4.  RPI
5.  Wick
6.  Hobart
7.  Curry
8.  Widener

Wesley v. Widener (short trip from PA to DE)
TCNJ v. Curry
SJF v. Hobart
RPI v. Wick

TGP.  Since the NCAA already has Curry ranked at #2 (and they won today), dont you think they would have to still be #2 and have a home game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 10, 2007, 04:21:25 PM
Who is excited for the Montclair v. Ithaca pissfest over the next few days. Can I preempt both sides? Because each sides argument can be summed up in one sentence.

Montclair: Ithaca beat no playoff teams and we beat #4 Wesley!
Ithaca: The two teams had one common opponent: Cortland beat MSU by 30, Ithaca beat Cortland by almost the same amount.

I'm sure we'll see several variations of the same arguments, but there it is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:27:23 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 10, 2007, 04:21:25 PM
Who is excited for the Montclair v. Ithaca pissfest over the next few days. Can I preempt both sides? Because each sides argument can be summed up in one sentence.

Montclair: Ithaca beat no playoff teams and we beat #4 Wesley!
Ithaca: The two teams had one common opponent: Cortland beat MSU by 30, Ithaca beat Cortland by almost the same amount.

I'm sure we'll see several variations of the same arguments, but there it is.

Gobombers,

I dont see anyway that Montclair can get in over Ithaca simply based on the previous NCAA rankings that had Ithaca already over them. 

Although the Pool C criteria is VERY ambigous and its tough to tell if they would compare IC vs Montclair or just compare all the pool C teams together?  I mean they are already ranked anyway right?  But are they ranked using the pool C criteria?  Kind of wierd dont ya think?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on November 10, 2007, 04:29:37 PM
TCNJ handed the game to Kean today with 5 turnovers on the way to losing 37-27. Hard to play a grind it out, control the clock game when you're handing points to the other team like candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween! So much for #1 in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: phil on November 10, 2007, 04:29:37 PM
TCNJ handed the game to Kean today with 5 turnovers on the way to losing 37-27. Hard to play a grind it out, control the clock game when you're handing points to the other team like candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween! So much for #1 in the East.

Phil Im sure they are just thinking ahead.  Those types of games happen all the time.  It probably would have been better going into the playoffs with a win though thats for sure.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 10, 2007, 04:33:48 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:27:23 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 10, 2007, 04:21:25 PM
Who is excited for the Montclair v. Ithaca pissfest over the next few days. Can I preempt both sides? Because each sides argument can be summed up in one sentence.

Montclair: Ithaca beat no playoff teams and we beat #4 Wesley!
Ithaca: The two teams had one common opponent: Cortland beat MSU by 30, Ithaca beat Cortland by almost the same amount.

I'm sure we'll see several variations of the same arguments, but there it is.

Gobombers,

I dont see anyway that Montclair can get in over Ithaca simply based on the previous NCAA rankings that had Ithaca already over them. 

Although the Pool C criteria is VERY ambigous and its tough to tell if they would compare IC vs Montclair or just compare all the pool C teams together?  I mean they are already ranked anyway right?  But are they ranked using the pool C criteria?  Kind of wierd dont ya think?


JU, I agree. I would have to think that IC is ahead of MSU in the Pool C pecking order, especially with today's monkey stomp of C-State. The committee would be ignoring the elephant in the room if they didn't look at how those two schools did against their one common opponent.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:51:25 PM
go bombers all fans from ithaca are going to see it like that but the MSU fans can manipulate it to seem like you guys arent gonna make it either.  i think you're just trying to convince yourself that IC will make it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:52:00 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:51:25 PM
go bombers all fans from ithaca are going to see it like that but the MSU fans can manipulate it to seem like you guys arent gonna make it either.  i think you're just trying to convince yourself that IC will make it.

fan of d3 would you stop talking out of your behind? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:52:44 PM
no.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:52:44 PM
no.

Can you stick your own head up there then?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:53:33 PM
yes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:53:33 PM
yes.

Good.  I just gave you the +K I took away from you earlier.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:55:05 PM
thanks, which reminds me.  how do u give out or take away more than 1 K in a day? thought u could only do one
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:56:49 PM
Quote from: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:55:05 PM
thanks, which reminds me.  how do u give out or take away more than 1 K in a day? thought u could only do one

Way too complicated to explain to a Springfield Grad.  Just tell yourself its magic.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fan of d3 on November 10, 2007, 04:57:35 PM
well when i graduate will you explain it to me?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 10, 2007, 05:01:28 PM
Congratulations to Montclair State University!!!!!  all we can do now is pray.......

I don't know if we will get in or not, but if we do watch out region because they are really running on all cylinders...We are the only team to beat Wesley at home in the past two years, and took down Springfield when they were 10th in the Country...we almost won the TCNJ game with 5 turnovers, ahhhh well congrats on a great season guess we will see in the morning
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 10, 2007, 05:24:17 PM
MSU and Ithaca are pretty much done for with the Bethel win and now Fisher grabbing a Pool C as well...  A
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 10, 2007, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 10, 2007, 05:01:28 PM
Congratulations to Montclair State University!!!!!  all we can do now is pray.......

I don't know if we will get in or not, but if we do watch out region because they are really running on all cylinders...We are the only team to beat Wesley at home in the past two years, and took down Springfield when they were 10th in the Country...we almost won the TCNJ game with 5 turnovers, ahhhh well congrats on a great season guess we will see in the morning

The win vs Springfield means nothing. Zero. Nada. Where they were ranked when you played them is completely irrelevant in the overall analysis.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 10, 2007, 05:34:44 PM
Montclair stinks it up in the playoffs.  Even their own fans don't want to come out and watch it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2007, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 10, 2007, 05:24:17 PM
MSU and Ithaca are pretty much done for with the Bethel win and now Fisher grabbing a Pool C as well...  A

I think that's about right.  If Utica had pulled it out over 'Wick it's probably a different story.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 10, 2007, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 10, 2007, 04:14:41 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 10, 2007, 03:44:21 PM
In with Pool A:

TCNJ
Curry
Widener
RPI
SJF (assuming Alfred doesn't come back and Utica beats Wick)
Wick (if they beat Utica, otherwise no Pool C for Wick at 7-3)

My guess is either Wesley or Salisbury gets moved into the East Region as either the #1 or 2 seed.

Pool C contenders left:
Hobart (8-2) - won 7 straight, 2 losses by only 7 total pts
Montclair (8-2) - win against Wesley in Wk 4, beaten bad by Cortland who just got smoked by IC.
Ithaca (8-2) - Not likely a Pool C entrant if Wick takes Pool A since SJF would likely go Pool C over IC based on head to head result.

My guess is the East will look like this (4-7 could be rearranged in several diff orders):

1.  Wesley
2.  TCNJ
3.  SJF
4.  RPI
5.  Wick
6.  Hobart
7.  Curry
8.  Widener

Wesley v. Widener (short trip from PA to DE)
TCNJ v. Curry
SJF v. Hobart
RPI v. Wick

TGP.  Since the NCAA already has Curry ranked at #2 (and they won today), dont you think they would have to still be #2 and have a home game?

They would have to, but IMO don't deserve a #2/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:19:44 PM
They're not going to move Wesley, a #1-seed that would cause constant travel issues in the East.  They will move Salisbury, who would be forced to travel and host at different points, and who would be just as good a fit in these circumstances.  Here is my best guess, posted to the LL and E8 (with Regional W-L):

1) St. John Fisher (9-1)
2) Curry (11-0)
3) RPI (8-1)
4) Salisbury (5-1)
5) Widener (8-2)
6) New Jersey (8-2)
7) Hartwick (8-2)
8 ) Hobart (8-2)

I hate placing Hobart as an 8-seed, but there are some first- and second-round travel implications that could be pretty ugly.  However, you can't drop TCNJ to #8 with their loss -- that would have made the second-round travel issues slightly easier to deal with after the Salisbury/Widener game.  This also avoids a potential second-round rematch between Hobart/RPI.  I think Fisher jumps Curry based on Fisher's quality win today and their Strength of Schedule being considered much higher than that of Curry.  There's one thing that's certain -- this is a tough bracket to seed based on the travel and rematch issues.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 10, 2007, 07:24:44 PM
I hope you are right re: Wesley.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 10, 2007, 07:29:07 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 10, 2007, 05:34:44 PM
Montclair stinks it up in the playoffs.  Even their own fans don't want to come out and watch it.

I love you Ithaca guys. ??? Hobart will probably get in, so an ECAC with Ithaca suites me fine. Come on down to the Train Station. The new turf is nice.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 10, 2007, 07:29:07 PM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 10, 2007, 05:34:44 PM
Montclair stinks it up in the playoffs.  Even their own fans don't want to come out and watch it.

I love you Ithaca guys. ??? Hobart will probably get in, so an ECAC with Ithaca suites me fine. Come on down to the Train Station. The new turf is nice.

You're not in Ithaca's ECAC region...You won't play them there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 10, 2007, 07:33:55 PM
Frank -

What about the Mules being moved into the East?

Quote from: K-Mack on November 08, 2007, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: old ends on November 08, 2007, 11:00:21 PM
K-Mack -- take a look at the South Region--Centennial Conference Post. Possible Muhlenberg to the East as a number 1
Thoughts??

I could definitely see Muhlenberg being moved to the East if necessary, and since Pat projected TCNJ as the No. 1 there and the Mules beat them 15-0, I could see it.

The Texas matchup wouldn't be as tidy, with 5 going to 3 or 4 going to 3, depending on where Salisbury fits, but ... why not? As far as teams to move go Muhlenberg is a good fit in the East. They have been moved there before, hosting UMass-Dartmouth in 2002, the same year John Carroll was also in that bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm), and in '04 they went to St. John Fisher (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/04/bracket.htm).

Both times they were a six seed though. The committees have seemed more likely to move lower-seeded teams out of their home regions, however, remember, nowhere does it say these must be East/South/North/West brackets ... teams can be grouped for geographic proximity no matter their home region.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:49:07 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 10, 2007, 07:33:55 PM
Frank -

What about the Mules being moved into the East?

Quote from: K-Mack on November 08, 2007, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: old ends on November 08, 2007, 11:00:21 PM
K-Mack -- take a look at the South Region--Centennial Conference Post. Possible Muhlenberg to the East as a number 1
Thoughts??

I could definitely see Muhlenberg being moved to the East if necessary, and since Pat projected TCNJ as the No. 1 there and the Mules beat them 15-0, I could see it.

The Texas matchup wouldn't be as tidy, with 5 going to 3 or 4 going to 3, depending on where Salisbury fits, but ... why not? As far as teams to move go Muhlenberg is a good fit in the East. They have been moved there before, hosting UMass-Dartmouth in 2002, the same year John Carroll was also in that bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm), and in '04 they went to St. John Fisher (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/04/bracket.htm).

Both times they were a six seed though. The committees have seemed more likely to move lower-seeded teams out of their home regions, however, remember, nowhere does it say these must be East/South/North/West brackets ... teams can be grouped for geographic proximity no matter their home region.


Still think the NCAA will favor Salisbury based on the fact that they play so many games against East teams already.  It makes general geographical, ranking and logistical sense (a.k.a., "It's SCIENCE.")  :)  But seriously, I think the Mules stay in their region, although I hear your argument here...I just feel like the Mules at 10-0 have earned the right to stay in their region.  Moving regional teams should be reserved for teams that are mid-pack in their region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 10, 2007, 10:07:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:49:07 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 10, 2007, 07:33:55 PM
Frank -

What about the Mules being moved into the East?

Quote from: K-Mack on November 08, 2007, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: old ends on November 08, 2007, 11:00:21 PM
K-Mack -- take a look at the South Region--Centennial Conference Post. Possible Muhlenberg to the East as a number 1
Thoughts??

I could definitely see Muhlenberg being moved to the East if necessary, and since Pat projected TCNJ as the No. 1 there and the Mules beat them 15-0, I could see it.

The Texas matchup wouldn't be as tidy, with 5 going to 3 or 4 going to 3, depending on where Salisbury fits, but ... why not? As far as teams to move go Muhlenberg is a good fit in the East. They have been moved there before, hosting UMass-Dartmouth in 2002, the same year John Carroll was also in that bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm), and in '04 they went to St. John Fisher (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/04/bracket.htm).

Both times they were a six seed though. The committees have seemed more likely to move lower-seeded teams out of their home regions, however, remember, nowhere does it say these must be East/South/North/West brackets ... teams can be grouped for geographic proximity no matter their home region.


Still think the NCAA will favor Salisbury based on the fact that they play so many games against East teams already.  It makes general geographical, ranking and logistical sense (a.k.a., "It's SCIENCE.")  :)  But seriously, I think the Mules stay in their region, although I hear your argument here...I just feel like the Mules at 10-0 have earned the right to stay in their region.  Moving regional teams should be reserved for teams that are mid-pack in their region.

I think Wesley plays almost the same amount of East teams. If the NCAA puts Wesley in the East, the rest of the teams in the bracket will find out what Wesley is about.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 11, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 10, 2007, 10:07:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:49:07 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on November 10, 2007, 07:33:55 PM
Frank -

What about the Mules being moved into the East?

Quote from: K-Mack on November 08, 2007, 11:35:25 PM
Quote from: old ends on November 08, 2007, 11:00:21 PM
K-Mack -- take a look at the South Region--Centennial Conference Post. Possible Muhlenberg to the East as a number 1
Thoughts??

I could definitely see Muhlenberg being moved to the East if necessary, and since Pat projected TCNJ as the No. 1 there and the Mules beat them 15-0, I could see it.

The Texas matchup wouldn't be as tidy, with 5 going to 3 or 4 going to 3, depending on where Salisbury fits, but ... why not? As far as teams to move go Muhlenberg is a good fit in the East. They have been moved there before, hosting UMass-Dartmouth in 2002, the same year John Carroll was also in that bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm), and in '04 they went to St. John Fisher (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/04/bracket.htm).

Both times they were a six seed though. The committees have seemed more likely to move lower-seeded teams out of their home regions, however, remember, nowhere does it say these must be East/South/North/West brackets ... teams can be grouped for geographic proximity no matter their home region.


Still think the NCAA will favor Salisbury based on the fact that they play so many games against East teams already.  It makes general geographical, ranking and logistical sense (a.k.a., "It's SCIENCE.")  :)  But seriously, I think the Mules stay in their region, although I hear your argument here...I just feel like the Mules at 10-0 have earned the right to stay in their region.  Moving regional teams should be reserved for teams that are mid-pack in their region.

I think Wesley plays almost the same amount of East teams. If the NCAA puts Wesley in the East, the rest of the teams in the bracket will find out what Wesley is about.

Unless they play in the rain, in which case they will lose by 50 and blame it on the weather (See B'port game from a couple years ago).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 11, 2007, 12:17:17 AM
Gets your facts straight, Brockport kicked their ass that day. They didn't blame that loss on the rain. It was the Whitewater game in the semifinals in '05 that they blamed on poor footing.  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 05:41:41 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:19:44 PM
They're not going to move Wesley, a #1-seed that would cause constant travel issues in the East.  They will move Salisbury, who would be forced to travel and host at different points, and who would be just as good a fit in these circumstances.  Here is my best guess, posted to the LL and E8 (with Regional W-L):

1) St. John Fisher (9-1)
2) Curry (11-0)
3) RPI (8-1)
4) Salisbury (5-1)
5) Widener (8-2)
6) New Jersey (8-2)
7) Hartwick (8-2)
8 ) Hobart (8-2)

I hate placing Hobart as an 8-seed, but there are some first- and second-round travel implications that could be pretty ugly.  However, you can't drop TCNJ to #8 with their loss -- that would have made the second-round travel issues slightly easier to deal with after the Salisbury/Widener game.  This also avoids a potential second-round rematch between Hobart/RPI.  I think Fisher jumps Curry based on Fisher's quality win today and their Strength of Schedule being considered much higher than that of Curry.  There's one thing that's certain -- this is a tough bracket to seed based on the travel and rematch issues.

Although I hope neither Wesley nor Salsbury get into the east bracket, how would Salsbury be less of a travel issue than Wesley?  And why would it matter to Wesley if they were moved to the East?  They would have all home games anyway right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 11, 2007, 11:25:15 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 05:41:41 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:19:44 PM
They're not going to move Wesley, a #1-seed that would cause constant travel issues in the East.  They will move Salisbury, who would be forced to travel and host at different points, and who would be just as good a fit in these circumstances.  Here is my best guess, posted to the LL and E8 (with Regional W-L):

1) St. John Fisher (9-1)
2) Curry (11-0)
3) RPI (8-1)
4) Salisbury (5-1)
5) Widener (8-2)
6) New Jersey (8-2)
7) Hartwick (8-2)
8 ) Hobart (8-2)

I hate placing Hobart as an 8-seed, but there are some first- and second-round travel implications that could be pretty ugly.  However, you can't drop TCNJ to #8 with their loss -- that would have made the second-round travel issues slightly easier to deal with after the Salisbury/Widener game.  This also avoids a potential second-round rematch between Hobart/RPI.  I think Fisher jumps Curry based on Fisher's quality win today and their Strength of Schedule being considered much higher than that of Curry.  There's one thing that's certain -- this is a tough bracket to seed based on the travel and rematch issues.

Although I hope neither Wesley nor Salsbury get into the east bracket, how would Salsbury be less of a travel issue than Wesley?  And why would it matter to Wesley if they were moved to the East?  They would have all home games anyway right?

Wesley is more of a travel issue because you're placing a team expected to win all its games into a region in which it doesn't belong.  So, you're virtually guaranteed to be creating travel issues for two games in that region -- and that is unfair to the region in which they're placed, as well.  In addition, Salisbury would be required to travel as a 4- or 5-seed, assuming they win, for at least one game -- barring the elimination of the top three teams early.  Thus, they would share the travel responsibilities with the teams in the region to which they're moved.  The point is that you don't want to enhance home-field advantage any more than it is a benefit by forcing all teams in a region to have to travel hundreds of miles when you can avoid it by leaving the team in their designated region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 11:26:45 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 11, 2007, 11:25:15 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 05:41:41 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:19:44 PM
They're not going to move Wesley, a #1-seed that would cause constant travel issues in the East.  They will move Salisbury, who would be forced to travel and host at different points, and who would be just as good a fit in these circumstances.  Here is my best guess, posted to the LL and E8 (with Regional W-L):

1) St. John Fisher (9-1)
2) Curry (11-0)
3) RPI (8-1)
4) Salisbury (5-1)
5) Widener (8-2)
6) New Jersey (8-2)
7) Hartwick (8-2)
8 ) Hobart (8-2)

I hate placing Hobart as an 8-seed, but there are some first- and second-round travel implications that could be pretty ugly.  However, you can't drop TCNJ to #8 with their loss -- that would have made the second-round travel issues slightly easier to deal with after the Salisbury/Widener game.  This also avoids a potential second-round rematch between Hobart/RPI.  I think Fisher jumps Curry based on Fisher's quality win today and their Strength of Schedule being considered much higher than that of Curry.  There's one thing that's certain -- this is a tough bracket to seed based on the travel and rematch issues.

Although I hope neither Wesley nor Salsbury get into the east bracket, how would Salsbury be less of a travel issue than Wesley?  And why would it matter to Wesley if they were moved to the East?  They would have all home games anyway right?

Wesley is more of a travel issue because you're placing a team expected to win all its games into a region in which it doesn't belong.  So, you're virtually guaranteed to be creating travel issues for two games in that region -- and that is unfair to the region in which they're placed, as well.  In addition, Salisbury would be required to travel as a 4- or 5-seed, assuming they win, for at least one game -- barring the elimination of the top three teams early.  Thus, they would share the travel responsibilities with the teams in the region to which they're moved.  The point is that you don't want to enhance home-field advantage any more than it is a benefit by forcing all teams in a region to have to travel hundreds of miles when you can avoid it by leaving the team in their designated region.

Oh ok.  Better chance of 3 teams having to travel to Wesley than Salsbury winning 3 games.  But then again, the travel in the south for those teams would be the same probably right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mandfense on November 11, 2007, 11:54:12 AM
Well, I have my pick for the East Region winner.  So nice of the NCAA to move Mount Union to the East.  Yikes!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 11, 2007, 11:56:17 AM
Quote from: mandfense on November 11, 2007, 11:54:12 AM
Well, I have my pick for the East Region winner.  So nice of the NCAA to move Mount Union to the East.  Yikes!

Its all over but the crying.  Wow!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers on November 11, 2007, 11:58:06 AM
It's nice to be in................ :o

That said, you still need to play the games.

I would have preferred travelling to Curry though.  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 11:26:45 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 11, 2007, 11:25:15 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 05:41:41 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2007, 07:19:44 PM
They're not going to move Wesley, a #1-seed that would cause constant travel issues in the East.  They will move Salisbury, who would be forced to travel and host at different points, and who would be just as good a fit in these circumstances.  Here is my best guess, posted to the LL and E8 (with Regional W-L):

1) St. John Fisher (9-1)
2) Curry (11-0)
3) RPI (8-1)
4) Salisbury (5-1)
5) Widener (8-2)
6) New Jersey (8-2)
7) Hartwick (8-2)
8 ) Hobart (8-2)

I hate placing Hobart as an 8-seed, but there are some first- and second-round travel implications that could be pretty ugly.  However, you can't drop TCNJ to #8 with their loss -- that would have made the second-round travel issues slightly easier to deal with after the Salisbury/Widener game.  This also avoids a potential second-round rematch between Hobart/RPI.  I think Fisher jumps Curry based on Fisher's quality win today and their Strength of Schedule being considered much higher than that of Curry.  There's one thing that's certain -- this is a tough bracket to seed based on the travel and rematch issues.

Although I hope neither Wesley nor Salsbury get into the east bracket, how would Salsbury be less of a travel issue than Wesley?  And why would it matter to Wesley if they were moved to the East?  They would have all home games anyway right?

Wesley is more of a travel issue because you're placing a team expected to win all its games into a region in which it doesn't belong.  So, you're virtually guaranteed to be creating travel issues for two games in that region -- and that is unfair to the region in which they're placed, as well.  In addition, Salisbury would be required to travel as a 4- or 5-seed, assuming they win, for at least one game -- barring the elimination of the top three teams early.  Thus, they would share the travel responsibilities with the teams in the region to which they're moved.  The point is that you don't want to enhance home-field advantage any more than it is a benefit by forcing all teams in a region to have to travel hundreds of miles when you can avoid it by leaving the team in their designated region.

Oh ok.  Better chance of 3 teams having to travel to Wesley than Salsbury winning 3 games.  But then again, the travel in the south for those teams would be the same probably right?

Looks like the NCAA doesnt care about the travel....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: gobombers on November 11, 2007, 11:58:06 AM
It's nice to be in................ :o

That said, you still need to play the games.

I would have preferred travelling to Curry though.  ;D

Curry would have been perfect.  Dam.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 11, 2007, 12:00:47 PM
I guess they want some fresh blood to win the North. Not very fair to the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2007, 12:01:40 PM
Does anyone have a clue why Mount Union was placed in the east?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mandfense on November 11, 2007, 12:02:50 PM
It's less than 500 miles for everyone in the region to travel to Mount Union except for Curry
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 11, 2007, 12:04:42 PM
that's different, but with MUC in NE Ohio and 4 teams in central NY it makes some sense geographically.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2007, 12:01:40 PM
Does anyone have a clue why Mount Union was placed in the east?

Im going to say Mt. Union is in the east because in some way, the top team in the country deserves the weakest bracket.  Mt. Union doesnt have to go anywhere, and they deserve to play the lower teams across the country.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 11, 2007, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 11, 2007, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2007, 12:01:40 PM
Does anyone have a clue why Mount Union was placed in the east?

Im going to say Mt. Union is in the east because in some way, the top team in the country deserves the weakest bracket.  Mt. Union doesnt have to go anywhere, and they deserve to play the lower teams across the country.


I like the move.  I also like taking the weakest team in the bracket, and shipping them out.  Now you have 4 strong brackets, and an opportunity for the East to prove itself as worthy.  Actually they will have 3 opportunities!

Good luck Ithaca.  I don't know what else to say, as I am still picking my jaw up off the floor.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 11, 2007, 12:15:56 PM
GO BOMBERS!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I will still argue that Widener would not have been the weakest team in the east. However, I think that all of the politicing that took place for the Empire 8 and other eastern conferences served them a helping of exactly what they deserved. Have fun traveling all the way to Mt. Union boys. Its really alot of fun to drive all the way out there. Oh, and the ride home after you get thumped is even better. Have fun in the east boys. See you next season. Off to West and Case.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 11, 2007, 07:39:31 PM
Ha yeah like your team would do any better.  I made the ride down to Mount Union last year in the national semifinals and we didn't get "thumped"....truth be told it was one of the most memorable and fun rides back I've ever had, we got lost in PA and we ended up in some hick town in the middle of nowhere. 


Widener sucks
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2007, 07:46:42 PM
Just got back and wow...  I knew that no one in the east would have a chance to get to the Stagg bowl  but now no one in the east has a chance to get to the national semis! 

This bracket DEFINITELY has a different flavor than what I've ever seen before. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:50:23 PM
Bobby
I never said tha WU would have done better against Mt. Union. I am glad we were moved out of the east. I have made that ride home before after they beat us in the final four. I do not recall it being that much fun. I guess that is because I do not like losing as much as you :D.  I wish the east well. Hope someone knocks them off. Doubt it will happen, but one can hope.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 11, 2007, 08:01:08 PM
Well yeah I don't think it would be as fun riding home after losing by 40 points knowing you were just thoroughly dominated, but when you go home after losing 26-14 (them scoring the touchdown to bring it from 19-14 to 26-14 with a few minutes left in the 4th) you don't feel as bad.  I felt like it was a close game, of course Mount Union had chances to score that they couldn't cash in on, but so did Fisher...So again all in all it was close and I don't think people felt bad about losing the way we did.  70-30 on the other hand....Ouch
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 12, 2007, 03:54:27 PM
I've posted a Bart-SJF preview on the LLPP and E8PP boards if anyone is interested (yeah right ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I think that all of the politicing that took place for the Empire 8 and other eastern conferences served them a helping of exactly what they deserved. Have fun traveling all the way to Mt. Union boys.

How has the Liberty League done in the playoffs?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2007, 07:58:14 PM
Quote from: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I think that all of the politicing that took place for the Empire 8 and other eastern conferences served them a helping of exactly what they deserved. Have fun traveling all the way to Mt. Union boys.

How has the Liberty League done in the playoffs?

what does that hav to do with what a MAC guy posts?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 08:03:43 PM
Meaning - its not like there was a lot to choose from elsewhere.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 12, 2007, 10:03:57 PM
Quote from: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 08:03:43 PM
Meaning - its not like there was a lot to choose from elsewhere.




When is this clown going to make one post which makes any sense......on any board....

Superman, this guy is making your introduction look Einsteinian....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2007, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 12, 2007, 10:03:57 PM
Quote from: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 08:03:43 PM
Meaning - its not like there was a lot to choose from elsewhere.




When is this clown going to make one post which makes any sense......on any board....

Superman, this guy is making your introduction look Einsteinian....

Ahmen...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2007, 12:14:37 AM
Quote from: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I think that all of the politicing that took place for the Empire 8 and other eastern conferences served them a helping of exactly what they deserved. Have fun traveling all the way to Mt. Union boys.

How has the Liberty League done in the playoffs?

last time RPI was in the playoffs they went to the national Semi-finals and beat 2 E8 teams on the way...next question?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 13, 2007, 12:32:00 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 12, 2007, 10:03:57 PM
Quote from: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 08:03:43 PM
Meaning - its not like there was a lot to choose from elsewhere.




When is this clown going to make one post which makes any sense......on any board....

Superman, this guy is making your introduction look Einsteinian....

me smart...you stupid...nahanahanahanaha
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2007, 03:51:13 AM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:50:23 PM
Bobby
I never said tha WU would have done better against Mt. Union. I am glad we were moved out of the east.


Hey, it's not Bobby.  It's Booby.  Get it right, man.  The dude has game!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2007, 05:27:08 AM
Taking a look at the opening bracket it looks to me like there are 3 very intriguing games where I am hard pressed to pick a winner.  Hopefully I'll be kept up to date with game scores during the ECAC's.


Ithaca at Mount Union


The Mount Union shut out streak dating back to September(!!!) comes to an end this Saturday.  Look for Ithaca to push Mount Union in the first half, before the Mount takes control in the second half.  MUC by 24 points.


Hartwick at Curry


Very interesting game.  Hartwick seemingly played its best football mid-season and lately has looked very vulnerable against mediocre competition.  Could Hartwick defeat Ithaca or Fisher at this point of the season on a neutral field?  I doubt it.  On the other side of the field is a hungry Curry squad which has a lot more playoff experience than does Hartwick.  That same Curry team is probably sick and tired of hearing that they are an automatic out in the NCAA's.  WNEC over Hartwick may be a huge upset in retrospect, but it tells us how vulnerable the Hawks' defense is.  The NEFC streak ends.  Curry by 3 points.


Hobart at St. John Fisher


Two teams which overcame rocky starts to re-establish themselves as eastern powers.  Both can put up a lot of points and win a shoot out.  While Fisher is not quite as dominant as they were in 2006, as Denny Greene would say:  "They are who we thought they were!"  I like Fisher's ability to explode on the ground and through the air, and based on their recent scores they are playing their best football down the stretch. This one is going down to the fourth quarter.  Fisher by 8 points.


TCNJ at RPI


Two very well matched football teams in the closest match-up of round 1.  This one is so close, I really think it comes down to home field advantage.  And that is where TCNJ has only itself to blame.  Had they taken care of Kean in Week 11, they would be undisputed NJAC Champions, rather than co-champions, and likely hold the #2 or #3 seed.  As it is, their brilliant defense broke down and now they must travel to face the Liberty League Champion.

RPI's spread offense worked very well against a strong Cortland defense in 2006.  From what I have seen, TCNJ's defense is a little quicker in the front 7/8 than Cortland was.  The question I have had all season is, what happens if TCNJ falls behind in the playoffs?  Do they have the offensive fire power to rally from behind?  Look for this to be their achilles heel.  RPI by 1 point.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2007, 09:01:05 AM
Quote from: Cortland_Football on November 13, 2007, 05:27:08 AM
Taking a look at the opening bracket it looks to me like there are 3 very intriguing games where I am hard pressed to pick a winner.  Hopefully I'll be kept up to date with game scores during the ECAC's.


Ithaca at Mount Union


The Mount Union shut out streak dating back to September(!!!) comes to an end this Saturday.  Look for Ithaca to push Mount Union in the first half, before the Mount takes control in the second half.  MUC by 24 points.


Hartwick at Curry


Very interesting game.  Hartwick seemingly played its best football mid-season and lately has looked very vulnerable against mediocre competition.  Could Hartwick defeat Ithaca or Fisher at this point of the season on a neutral field?  I doubt it.  On the other side of the field is a hungry Curry squad which has a lot more playoff experience than does Hartwick.  That same Curry team is probably sick and tired of hearing that they are an automatic out in the NCAA's.  WNEC over Hartwick may be a huge upset in retrospect, but it tells us how vulnerable the Hawks' defense is.  The NEFC streak ends.  Curry by 3 points.


Hobart at St. John Fisher


Two teams which overcame rocky starts to re-establish themselves as eastern powers.  Both can put up a lot of points and win a shoot out.  While Fisher is not quite as dominant as they were in 2006, as Denny Greene would say:  "They are who we thought they were!"  I like Fisher's ability to explode on the ground and through the air, and based on their recent scores they are playing their best football down the stretch. This one is going down to the fourth quarter.  Fisher by 8 points.


TCNJ at RPI


Two very well matched football teams in the closest match-up of round 1.  This one is so close, I really think it comes down to home field advantage.  And that is where TCNJ has only itself to blame.  Had they taken care of Kean in Week 11, they would be undisputed NJAC Champions, rather than co-champions, and likely hold the #2 or #3 seed.  As it is, their brilliant defense broke down and now they must travel to face the Liberty League Champion.

RPI's spread offense worked very well against a strong Cortland defense in 2006.  From what I have seen, TCNJ's defense is a little quicker in the front 7/8 than Cortland was.  The question I have had all season is, what happens if TCNJ falls behind in the playoffs?  Do they have the offensive fire power to rally from behind?  Look for this to be their achilles heel.  RPI by 1 point.



A nice read!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 13, 2007, 09:06:36 AM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I will still argue that Widener would not have been the weakest team in the east. However, I think that all of the politicing that took place for the Empire 8 and other eastern conferences served them a helping of exactly what they deserved. Have fun traveling all the way to Mt. Union boys. Its really alot of fun to drive all the way out there. Oh, and the ride home after you get thumped is even better. Have fun in the east boys. See you next season. Off to West and Case.

What politicking?  Surely you aren't referring to post patterns?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 13, 2007, 09:59:36 AM
RPI's spread will not work against TCNJ's defense....they sit in a 3-5 stack and blitz from all angles....they are extremely fast....That defense is very confusing to the o line when trying to identify who the Mike, Buck, and Will are with all of the moving around that they do....They sit in the "window" very well if RPI try's to throw there hot routes sooo look for TCNJ to return one to the house....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 13, 2007, 10:06:24 AM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 13, 2007, 09:59:36 AM
RPI's spread will not work against TCNJ's defense....they sit in a 3-5 stack and blitz from all angles....they are extremely fast....That defense is very confusing to the o line when trying to identify who the Mike, Buck, and Will are with all of the moving around that they do....They sit in the "window" very well if RPI try's to throw there hot routes sooo look for TCNJ to return one to the house....

Damn, RPI is screwed.  They might as well just forfeit.  LB's taking it to the house?  DAMN!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 13, 2007, 10:26:27 AM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 13, 2007, 09:59:36 AM
RPI's spread will not work against TCNJ's defense....they sit in a 3-5 stack and blitz from all angles....they are extremely fast....That defense is very confusing to the o line when trying to identify who the Mike, Buck, and Will are with all of the moving around that they do....They sit in the "window" very well if RPI try's to throw there hot routes sooo look for TCNJ to return one to the house....

They're going to have to blitz off the edge, RPI has like no splits, its pretty hard to get pressure up the middle.  If they do bring it off the edge the OLBer wont be there...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 13, 2007, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 13, 2007, 12:14:37 AM
Quote from: SJF Fan on November 12, 2007, 07:57:24 PM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
I think that all of the politicing that took place for the Empire 8 and other eastern conferences served them a helping of exactly what they deserved. Have fun traveling all the way to Mt. Union boys.

How has the Liberty League done in the playoffs?

last time RPI was in the playoffs they went to the national Semi-finals and beat 2 E8 teams on the way...next question?


Anf gave SJ's a tougher game than they got in the Stagg Bowl.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: WUDLINE on November 13, 2007, 12:40:43 PM
Jose-
I was not stating anything against the posters , the message board is designed for all of us to support our teams and do a little politicking of our own. I also do not wish any ill will on the teams in the east for that matter. I hope they do well and someone knocks off Mt. Union. I was voicing my opinion about the regional committee and NCAA voters. I feel that it is unfair to penalize WU for the loss to Wesley who is located in the South, but not reward WU for the win against NC Wesleyan who is also in the south. The 200 mile rule is ridiculous in my opinion. Either count all of games in the percentages or only eastern region games. Otherwise in my opinion teams are penalized for traveling greater distances to play better opponents.

Good luck to Bombers this weekend ! Climb the Mount.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 13, 2007, 12:42:56 PM
WUDLINE, the schools know the criteria when they make their schedules, the 200 mile rule has not changed in several years.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 13, 2007, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 13, 2007, 12:42:56 PM
WUDLINE, the schools know the criteria when they make their schedules, the 200 mile rule has not changed in several years.
This is not always so easy when you are a good team from a smaller conference or an independent. You can have a lot of trouble finding people to play. So you are left to travel or take what you can get.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 13, 2007, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 13, 2007, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 13, 2007, 12:42:56 PM
WUDLINE, the schools know the criteria when they make their schedules, the 200 mile rule has not changed in several years.
This is not always so easy when you are a good team from a smaller conference or an independent. You can have a lot of trouble finding people to play. So you are left to travel or take what you can get.
Actually this is the first year that the MAC could schedule OOC games, but there were closer schools that would have been regional games that also needed a tenth game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 13, 2007, 04:53:05 PM
Pretty soon, RPIs 2003 season is going to sound like Ithacas 1991 season (or 1994 season I could even say)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSUBIRDGANG on November 13, 2007, 08:09:38 PM
they do a damn good job of blitzing off of the edge as well as up the middle....Don't know why that one guy was so sarcastic
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 13, 2007, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: MSUBIRDGANG on November 13, 2007, 08:09:38 PM
they do a damn good job of blitzing off of the edge as well as up the middle....Don't know why that one guy was so sarcastic

Well you did say this.....

"RPI's spread will not work against TCNJ's defense"

I mean, just because TCNJ did a good job with their 3-5-3 against other spread teams doesnt mean they will totally stop RPIs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on November 13, 2007, 11:22:14 PM
Jonny,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. In fact, I think RPI should prepare by tossing out the film they have of TCNJ and prepare by watching a Mt. Ida highlight real.

The last two times TCNJ went to the playoffs they beat Rowan during the season and lost to them in the second round of the NCAA playoffs. Now a second round playoff game would likely mean a day of reckoning against MUCsville. There is no justice...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2007, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 13, 2007, 12:42:56 PM
WUDLINE, the schools know the criteria when they make their schedules, the 200 mile rule has not changed in several years.

Yes, but I see his point.  It does not make sense that we choose playoff teams on a national basis, but use regional records as the base criteria.  If we chose a certain number of teams per region to compete each season, I could understand it.  But since we compare teams on a national basis, it makes zero sense to throw out national scores.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2007, 05:56:06 AM
Quote from: phil on November 13, 2007, 11:22:14 PM
Jonny,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. In fact, I think RPI should prepare by tossing out the film they have of TCNJ and prepare by watching a Mt. Ida highlight real.

The last two times TCNJ went to the playoffs they beat Rowan during the season and lost to them in the second round of the NCAA playoffs. Now a second round playoff game would likely mean a day of reckoning against MUCsville. There is no justice...

I dont get your point.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on November 14, 2007, 09:49:54 AM
...I'm just kidding. In TCNJ's brief playoff history they've never made it past round 2. Twice they lost to Rowan and another time to Hofstra (who one week later got sacked by the NCAA for a handful of positive drug tests). Now MUC... should they be so lucky to get that far against a good RPI team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 16, 2007, 12:04:07 AM
It's a shame we cannot throw out the bracket concept and do this WWE style.

Let's make Mt Union run the gauntlet, and send out 7 teams one-by-one to try to take them down.  And if they make it through all 7, Cortland State will send out famous graduate Mick Foley with a barbed wire bat and thumb tacks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: John McGraw on November 16, 2007, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: Cortland_Football on November 16, 2007, 12:04:07 AM
It's a shame we cannot throw out the bracket concept and do this WWE style.

Let's make Mt Union run the gauntlet, and send out 7 teams one-by-one to try to take them down.  And if they make it through all 7, Cortland State will send out famous graduate Mick Foley with a barbed wire bat and thumb tacks.

Springfield would counter with John Cena and Ithaca with the late Gorilla Monsoon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 16, 2007, 01:25:16 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on November 16, 2007, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: Cortland_Football on November 16, 2007, 12:04:07 AM
It's a shame we cannot throw out the bracket concept and do this WWE style.

Let's make Mt Union run the gauntlet, and send out 7 teams one-by-one to try to take them down.  And if they make it through all 7, Cortland State will send out famous graduate Mick Foley with a barbed wire bat and thumb tacks.

Springfield would counter with John Cena and Ithaca with the late Gorilla Monsoon.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagecache2.allposters.com%2Fimages%2FPHO%2FAAGP044.jpg&hash=5fd61e497711ef61401bb8a6dc3716cf4c396715)

"Pride is all up in this house, bitch!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 16, 2007, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: John McGraw on November 16, 2007, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: Cortland_Football on November 16, 2007, 12:04:07 AM
It's a shame we cannot throw out the bracket concept and do this WWE style.

Let's make Mt Union run the gauntlet, and send out 7 teams one-by-one to try to take them down.  And if they make it through all 7, Cortland State will send out famous graduate Mick Foley with a barbed wire bat and thumb tacks.

Springfield would counter with John Cena and Ithaca with the late Gorilla Monsoon.

Monsoon was an Ithaca alum? I never knew that. +K.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 17, 2007, 08:45:12 AM
I did not know that either.  I wonder if ICDubbz or someone taught him the line, "He wouldn't know a wrist lock from a wrist watch."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2007, 10:05:36 PM
Quote from: Cortland_Football on November 13, 2007, 03:51:13 AM
Quote from: WUDLINE on November 11, 2007, 07:50:23 PM
Bobby
I never said tha WU would have done better against Mt. Union. I am glad we were moved out of the east.


Hey, it's not Bobby.  It's Booby.  Get it right, man.  The dude has game!

Ha nice catch, I didn't feel like correcting him.  +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2007, 10:09:27 PM
Quote from: Cortland_Football on November 13, 2007, 05:27:08 AM
Taking a look at the opening bracket it looks to me like there are 3 very intriguing games where I am hard pressed to pick a winner.  Hopefully I'll be kept up to date with game scores during the ECAC's.


Ithaca at Mount Union


The Mount Union shut out streak dating back to September(!!!) comes to an end this Saturday.  Look for Ithaca to push Mount Union in the first half, before the Mount takes control in the second half.  MUC by 24 points.


Hartwick at Curry


Very interesting game.  Hartwick seemingly played its best football mid-season and lately has looked very vulnerable against mediocre competition.  Could Hartwick defeat Ithaca or Fisher at this point of the season on a neutral field?  I doubt it.  On the other side of the field is a hungry Curry squad which has a lot more playoff experience than does Hartwick.  That same Curry team is probably sick and tired of hearing that they are an automatic out in the NCAA's.  WNEC over Hartwick may be a huge upset in retrospect, but it tells us how vulnerable the Hawks' defense is.  The NEFC streak ends.  Curry by 3 points.


Hobart at St. John Fisher


Two teams which overcame rocky starts to re-establish themselves as eastern powers.  Both can put up a lot of points and win a shoot out.  While Fisher is not quite as dominant as they were in 2006, as Denny Greene would say:  "They are who we thought they were!"  I like Fisher's ability to explode on the ground and through the air, and based on their recent scores they are playing their best football down the stretch. This one is going down to the fourth quarter.  Fisher by 8 points.


TCNJ at RPI


Two very well matched football teams in the closest match-up of round 1.  This one is so close, I really think it comes down to home field advantage.  And that is where TCNJ has only itself to blame.  Had they taken care of Kean in Week 11, they would be undisputed NJAC Champions, rather than co-champions, and likely hold the #2 or #3 seed.  As it is, their brilliant defense broke down and now they must travel to face the Liberty League Champion.

RPI's spread offense worked very well against a strong Cortland defense in 2006.  From what I have seen, TCNJ's defense is a little quicker in the front 7/8 than Cortland was.  The question I have had all season is, what happens if TCNJ falls behind in the playoffs?  Do they have the offensive fire power to rally from behind?  Look for this to be their achilles heel.  RPI by 1 point.



Also you completely totally 100% correctly prognosticated the Ithaca-Mount Union game including the point differential.  I will give you karma dap for that tomorrow as well if I can remember it. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 19, 2007, 01:01:39 AM
Well you know Booby, a stopped clock is right twice a day after all!  Actually I'm most happy to have predicted Curry's first victory in the NCAA playoffs, although I in no way saw that point differential coming.  Fisher better not take them lightly.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 19, 2007, 04:23:21 AM
I don't see any way MUC does not emerge from this bracket.  What I do hope is that TCNJ gives them a tough game (I'm thinking a 28-point victory, but I want to look at the game more closely).  I cannot tell you how tired I am of hearing about the East's perceived weakness.  This all seems to stem back to the Linfield-Rowan 52-0 debacle, but honestly I don't see a whole lot of proof any other year.

Keep this in mind - Eastern Region's St. John Fisher and Capital were the only 2 teams to nearly defeat Mount Union last season.  In 2005, Rowan gave Mount Union a 19-7 war in the semi's missing several key players including their quarterback.

The last 2 seasons since the bracket went to 32 teams, Mount Union has won the opening round game 49-6 (Mt St Joseph) and 49-0 (Hope).  Who gave them their first struggle in the opening round?  Eastern Region's Ithaca, the #8 seed in our bracket.  I think TCNJ can give Mount a better game than Augustana gave them in 2005 (44-7).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2007, 07:54:37 PM
What will be the margin of victory in the Ithaca at MUC game? Ithaca wins   11 (34.4%)
MUC wins by 1-20   4 (12.5%)
MUC wins by 21-30   9 (28.1%)
MUC wins by 31-41   2 (6.3%)
MUC wins by 42 or more   6 (18.8%)

Total Voters: 32
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2007, 03:53:14 PM
MUC is +76 versus the East Region in two playoff games.  How do they finish the East Region?

Beat SJF by 24 points or more.         -6 (75%)
Beat SJF by 14-23 points.         -0 (0%)
Edge SJF by 13 or less.         -1 (12.5%)
Lose to SJF by 13 or less.         -1 (12.5%)
Lose to SJF by 14 or more.         -0 (0%)

Total Voters: 8

Final margin of victory over the East Region was +118, 39.33 points per game.

We can bang the drum that the margin wasn't +125!   :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 09, 2007, 10:24:59 AM
Ithaca gave MUC its best game, certainly better than Bethel did.

The fun part about D3 football is the season itself.  The playoffs are an afterthought for anyone outside of Alliance.  Perhaps Whitewater will keep the game within 3 touchdowns, but I expect no more.  It's really quite boring.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: muledaddy on October 28, 2008, 07:25:14 PM


Mates,
Let's talk. Mules may be coming East. How good is Cortland? Who else can really play when it counts?All replies appreciated. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 28, 2008, 08:00:27 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on October 28, 2008, 07:25:14 PM


Mates,
Let's talk. Mules may be coming East. How good is Cortland? Who else can really play when it counts?All replies appreciated. 



Well, if I was you, I'd worry about getting past Dickinson this weekend first.  They almost beat you guys last season and even at 4-3 this year, they've been in every game they've played in (have lost by a TD or less).

Other than that, the East Region still way too TBD to really begin making any predictions who will end up where:

LL - Could be RPI, WPI or Hobart depending on how things shake out
E8 - don't even go there - 4 teams still in the hunt
NJ - Cortland the front runner, but Montclair and/or Rowan could end up in Pool C consideration.  Also CSU needs to beat TCNJ on the road, Brockport and IC at home before earning a #1 (or #2 "seed")
NEFC - Looking like P(NH) State - barring a huge upset, a one and done
MAC - crapshoot - could be any of these three teams (Lyco, Albright, or Leb Val), Del Val's big wins, then drop off makes this conf a mystery to me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 29, 2008, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on October 28, 2008, 07:25:14 PM


Mates,
Let's talk. Mules may be coming East. How good is Cortland? Who else can really play when it counts?All replies appreciated. 



Maybe not - don't see you guys on this list:

EAST REGION
1. Cortland State 7-0 7-0
2. RPI 5-0 6-0
3. Ithaca 5-1 6-1
4. Montclair State 6-1 6-1
5. Rowan 6-1 6-1
6. Hartwick 5-1 5-1
7. Worcester Polytech 6-1 6-1
8. Hobart 5-1 5-1
9. Plymouth State 5-1 7-1
10. Husson 6-0 6-2

but see you on this list:

SOUTH REGION
1. Muhlenberg 7-0 7-0
2. Millsaps 6-0 7-0
3. Washington and Jefferson 6-0 7-0
4. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-0 6-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 7-1
7. Huntingdon 1-0 7-0
8. Catholic 5-1 6-1
9. Salisbury 2-0 7-1
10. Thomas More 6-1 6-1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 03:43:11 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on October 28, 2008, 07:25:14 PM


Mates,
Let's talk. Mules may be coming East. How good is Cortland? Who else can really play when it counts?All replies appreciated. 



Maybe not - don't see you guys on this list:

EAST REGION
1. Cortland State 7-0 7-0
2. RPI 5-0 6-0
3. Ithaca 5-1 6-1
4. Montclair State 6-1 6-1
5. Rowan 6-1 6-1
6. Hartwick 5-1 5-1
7. Worcester Polytech 6-1 6-1
8. Hobart 5-1 5-1
9. Plymouth State 5-1 7-1
10. Husson 6-0 6-2

but see you on this list:

SOUTH REGION
1. Muhlenberg 7-0 7-0
2. Millsaps 6-0 7-0
3. Washington and Jefferson 6-0 7-0
4. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-0 6-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 7-1
7. Huntingdon 1-0 7-0
8. Catholic 5-1 6-1
9. Salisbury 2-0 7-1
10. Thomas More 6-1 6-1


The polls are regional, but the brackets are not.  So, Muhlenberg COULD be sent to "our" bracket.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 29, 2008, 04:00:48 PM
i know it's a could prof. rossi

- just don't see it happening this season like it did (with MUC) last season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 04:00:48 PM
i know it's a could prof. rossi

- just don't see it happening this season like it did (with MUC) last season.

If Cortland loses and Muhlenberg wins out, I think it's a "probably."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 29, 2008, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 04:00:48 PM
i know it's a could prof. rossi

- just don't see it happening this season like it did (with MUC) last season.

If Cortland loses and Muhlenberg wins out, I think it's a "probably."

TGP is 95% sure he'll be at next year's Union-Hobart game in Schenectady.  Assuming FR is there as well, TGP will go on the record say that Cortland wins out and gets #1 in the East this season.

If TGP is wrong, TGP will buy FR the first round post-game.

TGP is right, first round's on you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 04:31:33 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 04:00:48 PM
i know it's a could prof. rossi

- just don't see it happening this season like it did (with MUC) last season.

If Cortland loses and Muhlenberg wins out, I think it's a "probably."

TGP is 95% sure he'll be at next year's Union-Hobart game in Schenectady.  Assuming FR is there as well, TGP will go on the record say that Cortland wins out and gets #1 in the East this season.

If TGP is wrong, TGP will buy FR the first round post-game.

TGP is right, first round's on you.

Why wait for the postgame?!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 29, 2008, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 04:31:33 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2008, 04:04:25 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 29, 2008, 04:00:48 PM
i know it's a could prof. rossi

- just don't see it happening this season like it did (with MUC) last season.

If Cortland loses and Muhlenberg wins out, I think it's a "probably."

TGP is 95% sure he'll be at next year's Union-Hobart game in Schenectady.  Assuming FR is there as well, TGP will go on the record say that Cortland wins out and gets #1 in the East this season.

If TGP is wrong, TGP will buy FR the first round post-game.

TGP is right, first round's on you.

Why wait for the postgame?!

pre-game even better
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh
2) Cortland
3) RPI
4) Ithaca
5) MAC Rep
6) Rowan
7) Salisbury
8.) Plymouth St
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 02, 2008, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh
2) Cortland
3) RPI
4) Ithaca
5) MAC Rep
6) Rowan
7) Salisbury
8.) Plymouth St

I would list 6 as winner Rowan/Montclair.  I think whoever wins next week is in good shape for a C bid.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2008, 12:32:58 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 02, 2008, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh
2) Cortland
3) RPI
4) Ithaca
5) MAC Rep
6) Rowan
7) Salisbury
8.) Plymouth St

I would list 6 as winner Rowan/Montclair.  I think whoever wins next week is in good shape for a C bid.

Yes that is true...

The only conference to get a pool C this year is the NJAC...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 02, 2008, 12:50:09 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 12:32:58 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 02, 2008, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh
2) Cortland
3) RPI
4) Ithaca
5) MAC Rep
6) Rowan
7) Salisbury
8.) Plymouth St

I would list 6 as winner Rowan/Montclair.  I think whoever wins next week is in good shape for a C bid.

Yes that is true...

The only conference to get a pool C this year is the NJAC...



I think you are wrong with Rowan. ;) If Cortland wins out they deserve to be the #1 seed, IMHO. A lot can happen in (2) weeks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2008, 12:52:42 PM
if its rowan or montclair its pretty much a lock that the east is only getting one pool C this year and two teams are going to be imported in...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2008, 01:00:22 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh
2) Cortland
3) RPI
4) Ithaca
5) MAC Rep
6) Rowan
7) Salisbury
8.) Plymouth St

By having Cortland over Ithaca means you have Cortland beating Ithaca.  If thats the case I might see Ithaca being the 6 or 7 then or at least behind the MAC rep.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 02, 2008, 03:01:54 PM
I still see a situation, where either Fisher/Wick/alfred (though unlikely, the fighting freds get both wins... get the pool over rowan/montclair...

and how bout this situation... the Freds beat the bombers and then Fisher beats the freds... yes wick get's the aq, but I could see in this scenerio if Ithaca beats cortland than Fisher could get a pool c as they will be a 1 loss in-region team
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2008, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 02, 2008, 03:01:54 PM
I still see a situation, where either Fisher/Wick/alfred (though unlikely, the fighting freds get both wins... get the pool over rowan/montclair...

and how bout this situation... the Freds beat the bombers and then Fisher beats the freds... yes wick get's the aq, but I could see in this scenerio if Ithaca beats cortland than Fisher could get a pool c as they will be a 1 loss in-region team

If SJF gets in this year, pool A or C, i'll leave the boards forever...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 03:21:49 PM
We, in the South, are keeping Muhlenberg as a #1 or #2 seed and sending Thomas More, Pool A bid from the Presidents AC, to the "North" Region.


Please start at Post #1798 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4102.1785).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 02, 2008, 03:55:32 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 02, 2008, 03:01:54 PM
I still see a situation, where either Fisher/Wick/alfred (though unlikely, the fighting freds get both wins... get the pool over rowan/montclair...

and how bout this situation... the Freds beat the bombers and then Fisher beats the freds... yes wick get's the aq, but I could see in this scenerio if Ithaca beats cortland than Fisher could get a pool c as they will be a 1 loss in-region team

If SJF gets in this year, pool A or C, i'll leave the boards forever...

I understand that you are upset at the coaching staff and the way the team has been playing... but they are still 6-3 (5-1 in region)  this has been a decent year... and when you have a wick defense that likes to let the other team score sometimes... we can still make it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2008, 04:41:56 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 02, 2008, 03:55:32 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 02, 2008, 03:01:54 PM
I still see a situation, where either Fisher/Wick/alfred (though unlikely, the fighting freds get both wins... get the pool over rowan/montclair...

and how bout this situation... the Freds beat the bombers and then Fisher beats the freds... yes wick get's the aq, but I could see in this scenerio if Ithaca beats cortland than Fisher could get a pool c as they will be a 1 loss in-region team

If SJF gets in this year, pool A or C, i'll leave the boards forever...

I understand that you are upset at the coaching staff and the way the team has been playing... but they are still 6-3 (5-1 in region)  this has been a decent year... and when you have a wick defense that likes to let the other team score sometimes... we can still make it

Yes, they're 6-1 in region...but only one of those wins was a good win. The other five wins came against:

Buffalo State: 0-8
Rochester: 2-6
Utica: 2-6
Norwich: 2-6
Springfield 2-6

Total: 8-32

That's not exactly an impressive resume to submit. Five wins over cruddy teams and a 1-3 record against teams with a pulse...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2008, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 03:21:49 PM
We, in the South, are keeping Muhlenberg as a #1 or #2 seed and sending Thomas More, Pool A bid from the Presidents AC, to the "North" Region.


Please start at Post #1798 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4102.1785).

Fine be that way, we didnt want the Mules in the East anyways...

The east is going to need 2 teams imported though, only the NJAC is getting a pool C this year...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2008, 05:06:01 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 03:21:49 PM
We, in the South, are keeping Muhlenberg as a #1 or #2 seed and sending Thomas More, Pool A bid from the Presidents AC, to the "North" Region.


Please start at Post #1798 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4102.1785).

Fine be that way, we didnt want the Mules in the East anyways...

The east is going to need 2 teams imported though, only the NJAC is getting a pool C this year...

What if IC loses to Alfred and beats Cortland State? IC would be 8-2, and have wins over--records are educated guesses based on upcoming opponents: 9-1 Cortland--, 8-1 Hartwick and what could be 8-2 Lycoming. That would be THREE wins over Conference champions, two of which were their only losses. Yes, there are a lot of unbeaten/1 loss teams, but that's a pretty nice resume for a 2-loss team
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 02, 2008, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 02, 2008, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh
2) Cortland
3) RPI
4) Ithaca
5) MAC Rep
6) Rowan
7) Salisbury
8.) Plymouth St

I would list 6 as winner Rowan/Montclair.  I think whoever wins next week is in good shape for a C bid.

Looking at the regional rankings, I think that the Rowan-Montclair St. winner is the only "safe" Pool C bid in the East.  A one-loss Rowan or Montclair St. would properly be seeded above the MAC Pool A.  Salisbury would be a South Region import, but I think they have a tough time securing a Pool B bid, after losing to Wesley.

One of the toughest things about predicting Pool B and Pool C is that I think they're selected against all national Pool B and Pool C candidates, they're not necessarily restricted by Region--although as a practical matter, the NCAA isn't going to pick some boondocks Pool B or Pool C team if it requires paying for one or more team flights.

Here's the analysis I did last night:  assume that the top-ranked team from each Pool A conference wins out, and higher ranked teams beat lower ranked teams in showdowns.  Here's how I think it plays out among the East ranked teams:

EAST REGION
1. Cortland State  10-0 10-0  NJAC  Pool A
2. RPI                  9-0  9-0    LL     Pool A
3. Ithaca             7-2 8-2      E8     Pool A
4. Montclair State  9-1 9-1    NJAC  Pool C
5. Rowan             8-2 8-2     NJAC  Pool C
6. Hartwick          8-1 8-1     E8      Pool C
7. Worcester Poly  8-2 8-2     LL     Pool C
8. Hobart            7-2 7-2       LL     Pool C
9. Plymouth State 8-1 10-1   NEFC  Pool A
10. Husson          7-0 7-2              Pool B

Teams whose projected records include a loss since Wednesday's Rankings listed in italics
MAC Conference Pool A is not ranked.

In this scenario, Ithaca and Rowan probably drop down and WPI and Hobart maybe drop out, but who could take their places?  If we borrow the likeliest candidates from the East Region Fan Poll, we get

St. John Fisher     7-1 7-3       E8      Pool C

and then it gets tricky.  The East Region Fan Poll voters like Lycoming, a MAC Pool A candidate.  But there's still Albright, who has the same conference record as Lyco, but has a head-to-head loss to Lycoming, so Lyco wins Pool A if it wins out, and if Albright also wins out, the MAC looks like this:

Lycoming           7-2 8-2      MAC   Pool A
Albright            8-2 8-2       MAC  Pool C

Also lurking would be

Curry               9-1  9-1     NEFC   Pool C

In this exercise, Rowan would be 0-2 v. ranked opponents, Curry 0-1, and Albright and Lyco 0-0 v. ranked opponents.  I figure it'd be a battle of Rowan's OWP/OOWP v. Curry's winning percentage, for the final ranked spot.

In either case, the MAC makes for 5 Pool A spots in the East Region.  Only three remain available to Husson and the Pool C candidates--two, if a team is moved into the East, as we know is quite possible.

Thus, Rowan and Montclair St. play next week for the only "safe" Pool C bid in the East.  Hartwick obviously stays way ahead of Fisher if they win out, but 'Wick would still have to be considered on the bubble.

RPI v. Hobart next Saturday might be for the Liberty League's only NCAA playoff representative.  If RPI wins, I don't see a 7-2 Hobart getting a Pool C bid.  If Hobart wins, RPI will be trapped in the same bubble as Hartwick.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2008, 11:48:22 AM
East Region Playoff Prediction 2.0:

This scenario will probably be the best case scenario for the east...

1-Muhlenburgh (10-0)
2-RPI (9-0)
3-Ithaca (9-1)
4-Cortland (9-1)
5-Lycoming (8-2)
6-Rowan/Montclair winner (9-1)
7-Plymouth St (9-1)
8-Hartwick (8-1)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 03, 2008, 11:57:56 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2008, 11:48:22 AM
East Region Playoff Prediction 2.0:

This scenario will probably be the best case scenario for the east...

1-Muhlenburgh (10-0)
2-RPI (9-0)
3-Ithaca (9-1)
4-Cortland (9-1)
5-Lycoming (8-2)
6-Rowan/Montclair winner (9-1)
7-Plymouth St (9-1)
8-Hartwick (8-1)



I think that would be spectacular.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2008, 12:00:05 PM
upstate- you think that cortaca goes to Cstate?
hmm.
dunno about that one
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2008, 12:04:04 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2008, 12:00:05 PM
upstate- you think that cortaca goes to Cstate?
hmm.
dunno about that one

Cortaca goes to IC actually...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2008, 12:09:19 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2008, 11:48:22 AM
East Region Playoff Prediction 2.0:

This scenario will probably be the best case scenario for the east...

1-Muhlenburg (10-0)  Pool A  from the South Region.
2-RPI (9-0)  Pool A
3-Ithaca (9-1)  Pool A
4-Cortland (9-1)  Pool A
5-Lycoming (8-2)   Pool A
6-Rowan/Montclair winner (9-1)  Pool C
7-Plymouth St (9-1) Pool A
8-Hartwick (8-1)  Pool C


Thanks for the post.   :)

Please give us your opinion on the 8 teams that would constitute the "South Bracket", taking care to minimize the number of plane flights.

The 6 Pool A conferences are the Centennial, the Presidents AC, the ODAC, the USA South, the SCAC and the ASC.

"Pool B teams" include Wesley, Salisbury, Huntingdon and LaGrange.  (There are 3 Pool B bids to give.)

How many of the 6 Pool C bids go to South Region teams?

Thanks   :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2008, 12:14:07 PM
gotcha im havin a comprehension trbl day ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2008, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2008, 12:09:19 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2008, 11:48:22 AM
East Region Playoff Prediction 2.0:

This scenario will probably be the best case scenario for the east...

1-Muhlenburg (10-0)  Pool A  from the South Region.
2-RPI (9-0)  Pool A
3-Ithaca (9-1)  Pool A
4-Cortland (9-1)  Pool A
5-Lycoming (8-2)   Pool A
6-Rowan/Montclair winner (9-1)  Pool C
7-Plymouth St (9-1) Pool A
8-Hartwick (8-1)  Pool C


Thanks for the post.   :)

Please give us your opinion on the 8 teams that would constitute the "South Bracket", taking care to minimize the number of plane flights.

The 6 Pool A conferences are the Centennial, the Presidents AC, the ODAC, the USA South, the SCAC and the ASC.

"Pool B teams" include Wesley, Salisbury, Huntingdon and LaGrange.  (There are 3 Pool B bids to give.)

How many of the 6 Pool C bids go to South Region teams?

Thanks   :)

im on it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 03, 2008, 12:50:03 PM
Cortland still has to play Brockport and Ithaca.  I'm not sold that if they win both, that they will not be rewarded with the #1 seed in the East.  They are ranked #7 in the country right now.  Beating Ithaca could easily move them ahead of Muhlenberg in the polls. 

Before I can make my predictions, can anyone help me with the E8?  If Ithaca beats Alfred, Hartwick wins out, and Fisher Wins out, who wins the 3-way tie?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 03, 2008, 01:05:32 PM
If Cortland wins out the definitely deserve he number one seed and to jump over Muhlenberg in the Polls.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2008, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 12:50:03 PM
Cortland still has to play Brockport and Ithaca.  I'm not sold that if they win both, that they will not be rewarded with the #1 seed in the East.  They are ranked #7 in the country right now.  Beating Ithaca could easily move them ahead of Muhlenberg in the polls. 

Before I can make my predictions, can anyone help me with the E8?  If Ithaca beats Alfred, Hartwick wins out, and Fisher Wins out, who wins the 3-way tie?

Ithaca....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2008, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 03, 2008, 01:05:32 PM
If Cortland wins out the definitely deserve he number one seed and to jump over Muhlenberg in the Polls.

If they do win out i'll agree with that...

Its not a given with their schedule though...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 03, 2008, 01:17:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 12:50:03 PM
Cortland still has to play Brockport and Ithaca.  I'm not sold that if they win both, that they will not be rewarded with the #1 seed in the East.  They are ranked #7 in the country right now.  Beating Ithaca could easily move them ahead of Muhlenberg in the polls. 

Before I can make my predictions, can anyone help me with the E8?  If Ithaca beats Alfred, Hartwick wins out, and Fisher Wins out, who wins the 3-way tie?

The third tiebreaker for the E8 is the NCAA SOS which Ithaca has locked up no matter what (if they beat Alfred)  So Ithaca wins in a 3 way tie with SJF and Hartwick.*

*source: Frank Rossi
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2008, 01:19:14 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 03, 2008, 01:05:32 PM
If Cortland wins out the definitely deserve he number one seed and to jump over Muhlenberg in the Polls.
If Cortland wins out, I think that they become the #1 seed in the East.

RPI (10-0) gets 2 games on that side of the region.

A 10-0 Muhlenberg gets to be #1 or #2 in the South with three or two home games.

You can move Pool B CWRU to the east.

1)  Cortland State
2)  RPI
3)  Rowan/Montclair  Pool C
4)  Ithaca
5)  Hartwick  Pool C
6)  CWRU
7)  MAC Pool A
8 )  NEFC Pool A

We can juggle the matchups in the bottom half of the bracket to avoid conference foes in the first round.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Plymouth State (9-1) - Pool A (Do they play an extra game still for the conference championship?)
6.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
7.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C
8.  Albright (8-2)  - Pool C

Obviously Hobart beating RPI, Ithaca beating Cortland, Alfred beating Ithaca and SJF, amongst other things, could throw this region into a mess.  A 9-1 Curry might get considered.  A 7-2 Husson with 2 Out of Division losses might get considered.  Who knows...The next 2 weeks shall be interesting to say the least.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 03, 2008, 01:36:13 PM
Yes. P-state would be 10-1 with a NEFC conference game win.

I'll add on to this post... it's a good thing there isn't an undefeated NEFC team this year so they will probably be the #8 team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2008, 01:46:52 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Plymouth State (9-1) - Pool A (Do they play an extra game still for the conference championship?)
6.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
7.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C
8.  Albright (8-2)  - Pool C

Obviously Hobart beating RPI, Ithaca beating Cortland, Alfred beating Ithaca and SJF, amongst other things, could throw this region into a mess.  A 9-1 Curry might get considered.  A 7-2 Husson with 2 Out of Division losses might get considered.  Who knows...The next 2 weeks shall be interesting to say the least.

Psst...where's the E8 pool A?

I dont think the east gets 4 pool C bids this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 03, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Plymouth State (9-1) - Pool A (Do they play an extra game still for the conference championship?)
6.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
7.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C
8.  Albright (8-2)  - Pool C

Obviously Hobart beating RPI, Ithaca beating Cortland, Alfred beating Ithaca and SJF, amongst other things, could throw this region into a mess.  A 9-1 Curry might get considered.  A 7-2 Husson with 2 Out of Division losses might get considered.  Who knows...The next 2 weeks shall be interesting to say the least.
Where is Ithaca (Pool A from E8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 03, 2008, 01:50:02 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 03, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Plymouth State (9-1) - Pool A (Do they play an extra game still for the conference championship?)
6.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
7.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C
8.  Albright (8-2)  - Pool C

Obviously Hobart beating RPI, Ithaca beating Cortland, Alfred beating Ithaca and SJF, amongst other things, could throw this region into a mess.  A 9-1 Curry might get considered.  A 7-2 Husson with 2 Out of Division losses might get considered.  Who knows...The next 2 weeks shall be interesting to say the least.
Where is Ithaca (Pool A from E8)

Maybe he thinks IC loses to Alfred and Cortland and SJF beats Alfred with Hartwick winning out.

(he would have to put Pool A next to Hartwick then.)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 03, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Plymouth State (9-1) - Pool A (Do they play an extra game still for the conference championship?)
6.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
7.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C
8.  Albright (8-2)  - Pool C

Obviously Hobart beating RPI, Ithaca beating Cortland, Alfred beating Ithaca and SJF, amongst other things, could throw this region into a mess.  A 9-1 Curry might get considered.  A 7-2 Husson with 2 Out of Division losses might get considered.  Who knows...The next 2 weeks shall be interesting to say the least.
Where is Ithaca (Pool A from E8)

knew I missed one!!! damn you!  IDIOT!!!  Here goes again:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Ithaca (8-2) - Pool A
6.  Plymouth State (10-1) - Pool A
7.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
8.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C

I was reaching for the 8 seed.  That was why...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 03, 2008, 04:19:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 03, 2008, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Plymouth State (9-1) - Pool A (Do they play an extra game still for the conference championship?)
6.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
7.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C
8.  Albright (8-2)  - Pool C

Obviously Hobart beating RPI, Ithaca beating Cortland, Alfred beating Ithaca and SJF, amongst other things, could throw this region into a mess.  A 9-1 Curry might get considered.  A 7-2 Husson with 2 Out of Division losses might get considered.  Who knows...The next 2 weeks shall be interesting to say the least.
Where is Ithaca (Pool A from E8)

knew I missed one!!! damn you!  IDIOT!!!  Here goes again:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Ithaca (9-2) - Pool A
6.  Plymouth State (10-1) - Pool A
7.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
8.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C

I was reaching for the 8 seed.  That was why...

Does the NCAA still have the rule where you can't play the same team twice on the same field?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2008, 04:20:20 PM
No. And in fact, I've never even heard that one.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 03, 2008, 04:35:44 PM
a 7-2 hobart does not get a bid over a 7-3 fisher...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 03, 2008, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 03, 2008, 04:35:44 PM
a 7-2 hobart does not get a bid over a 7-3 fisher...

At this rate, I think they do.  Of course it could be a toss up, but while Fisher's win over Ithaca looks dominant, struggling wins over Springfield and Utica put them out of contention in my eyes.  Plus, i have a feeling Alfred just might beat them as well.  I think Fisher is playing for an ECAC birth.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 03, 2008, 04:45:40 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 03, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Ok, so here are my current predictions:

Here goes again:

1.  Cortland (10-0) - Pool A
2.  RPI (9-0) - Pool A
3.  Montclair/Rowan Winner (9-1)  - Pool C
4.  Lycoming (8-2) - Pool A
5.  Ithaca (8-2) - Pool A
6.  Plymouth State (10-1) - Pool A
7.  Hartwick - (8-1) - Pool C
8.  Hobart (7-2) - Pool C

I was reaching for the 8 seed.  That was why...

I see Wesley or Case Western being imported to the East.  10-0 CWRU probably goes in at 4 in the above, Wesley at 6 or 7.  7-3 Fisher and 7-2 Hobart have to mail it in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 03, 2008, 04:50:56 PM
Quote from: superman57 on November 03, 2008, 04:35:44 PM
a 7-2 hobart does not get a bid over a 7-3 fisher...

I think the winner of the 'Frozen Cat Turd' Bowl is the only rep. from the LL to go to the NCAA's.....pretty much a playoff game this Saturday in Troy.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: muledaddy on November 03, 2008, 09:16:42 PM


Union89,

The frozen cat turd bowl?Do tell more.Thanks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 03, 2008, 10:54:27 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 03, 2008, 09:16:42 PM


Union89,

The frozen cat turd bowl?Do tell more.Thanks.

I believe RPI's Prof. McEngineGroenstein of Chattanooga coined the term.  If you've ever seen a grass football field (especially older ones like the '86 and the Boz) in Upstate NY in mid November, you may get the joke. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 03, 2008, 11:31:43 PM
Anyone learn anything more about that last minute cancellation of the Shoozapalooza webcast?

My guess was that Time Warner had exclusive video broadcast rights--maybe the always hilarious insider Frank Rossi Esquire knows more?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 06, 2008, 08:50:21 AM
Who thinks Husson is getting into the playoffs?  Their schedule is awful, but from what I've heard they are not a terrible team. They would probably be a lower level E8 team if they weren't out in east BF (they've beat Norwich and Utica each 3 years in a row, beat Springfield this year and Hartwick in 2006). 8-5 vs the E8 in 3 years.  I think they could compete in the playoffs.

That being said, I don't know if they should get into the playoffs over a LL/E8/NJAC/MAC pool C.  But theres where things get complicated with the whole national B/C slots and semi regional brackets... I'll leave that up to the NCAA, and they are known to make some funny decisions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 06, 2008, 08:53:46 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 06, 2008, 08:50:21 AM
Who thinks Husson is getting into the playoffs?  Their schedule is awful, but from what I've heard they are not a terrible team. They would probably be a lower level E8 team if they weren't out in east BF (they've beat Norwich and Utica each 3 years in a row, beat Springfield this year and Hartwick in 2006). 8-5 vs the E8 in 3 years.  I think they could compete in the playoffs.

That being said, I don't know if they should get into the playoffs over a LL/E8/NJAC/MAC pool C.  But theres where things get complicated with the whole national B/C slots and semi regional brackets... I'll leave that up to the NCAA, and they are known to make some funny decisions.

I think we'll see Husson vs SJF in an ECAC game this year...

Pool B will be tough to get because of LaGrange, Huntington, CWRU are inline for pool B bids as well...

I think they'll be close to getting one, but will just miss out...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 06, 2008, 09:14:38 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2008, 08:53:46 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 06, 2008, 08:50:21 AM
Who thinks Husson is getting into the playoffs?  Their schedule is awful, but from what I've heard they are not a terrible team. They would probably be a lower level E8 team if they weren't out in east BF (they've beat Norwich and Utica each 3 years in a row, beat Springfield this year and Hartwick in 2006). 8-5 vs the E8 in 3 years.  I think they could compete in the playoffs.

That being said, I don't know if they should get into the playoffs over a LL/E8/NJAC/MAC pool C.  But theres where things get complicated with the whole national B/C slots and semi regional brackets... I'll leave that up to the NCAA, and they are known to make some funny decisions.

I think we'll see Husson vs SJF in an ECAC game this year...

Pool B will be tough to get because of LaGrange, Huntington, CWRU are inline for pool B bids as well...

I think they'll be close to getting one, but will just miss out...

I think a team like Husson needs to play in an ECAC game, and compete, before getting thrown into an NCAA game and stealing a tournament spot from someone else.  Just because they are an independent team and have a schedule padded with terrible teams doesn't earn them the right to make the playoffs.  Not when teams from tough conferences are losing 1 or 2 games and are getting shafted.  Husson should get waxed by SJF in the H(*)(*)TERS bowl.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 06, 2008, 10:48:45 AM
I agree Husson needs to ease itself into the postseason picture, but I got a funny feeling that if some teams lose down the stretch the NCAA might take undefeated (in D3) Husson over 2 loss teams.

SJF/Husson would be a good matchup this year to see if Husson really has it and/or SJF is sliding.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 06, 2008, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 06, 2008, 10:48:45 AM
I agree Husson needs to ease itself into the postseason picture, but I got a funny feeling that if some teams lose down the stretch the NCAA might take undefeated (in D3) Husson over 2 loss teams.

SJF/Husson would be a good matchup this year to see if Husson really has it and/or SJF is sliding.

Again, I'll say it -- the East Rankings are pretty convincing right now that Husson has a decent pad between it and even the MAC Pool A team -- and SJF.  RPI winning would knock Hobart below it -- the loser of Monclair/Rowan will also.  That makes it one upset away from being the likely winner of a bid, assuming the East Region gets two Pool C bids (that assumption, of course, is a big assumption and might not pan out).  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
what is the ncaa rule on 1st round matchups and travel time? Seems like the NEFC (PSU or MM) vs RPI may be a guarentee?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 07, 2008, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
what is the ncaa rule on 1st round matchups and travel time? Seems like the NEFC (PSU or MM) vs RPI may be a guarentee?

As long as its not a conference rematch and within the mileage anything goes...

All depends on the seeds given in the east...

NEFC will probably be a 7/8 seed so they'll be facing Cortland or RPI...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 07, 2008, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 07, 2008, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
what is the ncaa rule on 1st round matchups and travel time? Seems like the NEFC (PSU or MM) vs RPI may be a guarentee?

As long as its not a conference rematch and within the mileage anything goes...

All depends on the seeds given in the east...

NEFC will probably be a 7/8 seed so they'll be facing Cortland or RPI...


...if the season were to end today...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 07, 2008, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 07, 2008, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
what is the ncaa rule on 1st round matchups and travel time? Seems like the NEFC (PSU or MM) vs RPI may be a guarentee?

As long as its not a conference rematch and within the mileage anything goes...

All depends on the seeds given in the east...

NEFC will probably be a 7/8 seed so they'll be facing Cortland or RPI...


...if the season were to end today...

Right, thats what Im asking, what is the mileage?
Im saying those 2 teams might be tied into playing RPI. RPI is close to 4 hours from Plymouth, 8 from ME Maritime. Cortland is close to 3 hours from RPI. Will the committee really make 1 of the 2 NEFC Teams travel more than 4 hours to a Cortland?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 07, 2008, 10:09:54 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 07, 2008, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 07, 2008, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
what is the ncaa rule on 1st round matchups and travel time? Seems like the NEFC (PSU or MM) vs RPI may be a guarentee?

As long as its not a conference rematch and within the mileage anything goes...

All depends on the seeds given in the east...

NEFC will probably be a 7/8 seed so they'll be facing Cortland or RPI...


...if the season were to end today...

Right, thats what Im asking, what is the mileage?
Im saying those 2 teams might be tied into playing RPI. RPI is close to 4 hours from Plymouth, 8 from ME Maritime. Cortland is close to 3 hours from RPI. Will the committee really make 1 of the 2 NEFC Teams travel more than 4 hours to a Cortland?

Hartwick had to travel to Curry and Ithaca had to travel to Mount Union, so I doubt mileage will be an issue....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 07, 2008, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 07, 2008, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 07, 2008, 09:10:17 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 07, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
what is the ncaa rule on 1st round matchups and travel time? Seems like the NEFC (PSU or MM) vs RPI may be a guarentee?

As long as its not a conference rematch and within the mileage anything goes...

All depends on the seeds given in the east...

NEFC will probably be a 7/8 seed so they'll be facing Cortland or RPI...


...if the season were to end today...

Right, thats what Im asking, what is the mileage?
Im saying those 2 teams might be tied into playing RPI. RPI is close to 4 hours from Plymouth, 8 from ME Maritime. Cortland is close to 3 hours from RPI. Will the committee really make 1 of the 2 NEFC Teams travel more than 4 hours to a Cortland?

IN the playoffs an NEFC team should have to travel to Alaska. That is unless they are facing Wick.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2008, 11:55:49 AM
The mileage is 500.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 08, 2008, 04:15:14 PM
God what a mess now...

OK, Bart joins Cortland as Pool A's...

Montclair all but locks up a pool C...

SJF needs to win next week to get the Pool A...

IC, clinches a share of the E8, if they win they're in via Pool C!  If not they've got to pull for AU to knock off SJF to get the Pool A...

MAC, Seriously what the hell is going on?

NEFC, Do we really care?

There is going to be at least one team brought in to fill out the bracket and if Cortland loses there may be two brought in...



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 08, 2008, 04:30:50 PM
Multiple Scenario Projections for the East:

-Cortland takes the Jug
-SJF wins vs AU

1) Cortland
2) Washington and Jefferson
3) Montclair
4) Hobart
5) SJF
6) NEFC Rep
7) MAC Rep
8.) RPI

-Ithaca takes the Jug
-AU beats SJF

1) MUC
2) Ithaca
3) Washington and Jefferson
4) Cortland
5) Hobart
6) Montclair
7) NEFC rep
8) MAC rep

-Ithaca takes the Jug
-SJF beats AU

1) MUC
2) Ithaca
3) Cortland
4) Hobart
5) SJF
6) Montclair
7) NEFC Rep
8) MAC rep

thoughts?
8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 08, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 08, 2008, 04:15:14 PM
God what a mess now...

OK, Bart joins Cortland as Pool A's...

Montclair all but locks up a pool C...

SJF needs to win next week to get the Pool A...

IC, clinches a share of the E8, if they win they're in via Pool C!  If not they've got to pull for AU to knock off SJF to get the Pool A...

MAC, Seriously what the hell is going on?

NEFC, Do we really care?

There is going to be at least one team brought in to fill out the bracket and if Cortland loses there may be two brought in...


Yeah, so what happens if


Then IC gets Pool A, while 'Wick and SJF both have 2 regional losses (I think?).  Am I crazy to think that both of those games could come out that way?

Hobart's the leading candidate for LL Pool A, but they didn't clinch.  Cortland's clinched the NJAC Pool A.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2008, 04:38:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 08, 2008, 04:30:50 PM
Multiple Scenario Projections for the East:

-Cortland takes the Jug
-SJF wins vs AU

1) Cortland
2) Washington and Jefferson
3) Montclair
4) Hobart
5) SJF
6) NEFC Rep
7) MAC Rep
8.) RPI

-Ithaca takes the Jug
-AU beats SJF

1) MUC
2) Ithaca
3) Washington and Jefferson
4) Cortland
5) Hobart
6) Montclair
7) NEFC rep
8) MAC rep

-Ithaca takes the Jug
-SJF beats AU

1) MUC
2) Ithaca
3) Cortland
4) Hobart
5) SJF
6) Montclair
7) NEFC Rep
8) MAC rep

thoughts?
8)

I wouldnt complain too much if Ithaca didnt get into the playoffs if they lost next week, but Im not so sure if RPI would deserve the last pool C spot over them for it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 08, 2008, 04:43:54 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 08, 2008, 04:30:50 PM
Multiple Scenario Projections for the East:

-Cortland takes the Jug
-SJF wins vs AU

1) Cortland
2) Washington and Jefferson
3) Montclair
4) Hobart
5) SJF
6) NEFC Rep
7) MAC Rep
8.) RPI

-Ithaca takes the Jug
-AU beats SJF

1) MUC
2) Ithaca
3) Washington and Jefferson
4) Cortland
5) Hobart
6) Montclair
7) NEFC rep
8) MAC rep

-Ithaca takes the Jug
-SJF beats AU

1) MUC
2) Ithaca
3) Cortland
4) Hobart
5) SJF
6) Montclair
7) NEFC Rep
8) MAC rep

thoughts?
8)

Just thinking out loud/off the top of my head, I'd see Wesley coming in ahead of W & J.

It's hard to see how a 2 loss MAC rep gets seeded above any one-loss team, given that MAC teams have not been ranked, but one loss Hobart and Plymouth State have been ranked, each with one loss to an unranked opponent.  Rowan, Montclair, and Curry were ranked with one loss to a ranked opponent.  RPI now has a loss to a ranked opponent, Hobart has a win v. a ranked opponent.

Husson remains undefeated.

It's amusing that you can't put a ) immediately after the number 8 without posting a 8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 08, 2008, 04:48:56 PM
Upstate -

What's with your Wash & Jeff infatuation?  Right now, they're on the outside looking in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 08, 2008, 04:52:12 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 08, 2008, 04:48:56 PM
Upstate -

What's with your Wash & Jeff infatuation?  Right now, they're on the outside looking in.

My bad was confusing them with Case Western Reserve...

I copied the wrong team in the regional rankings...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 08, 2008, 05:03:37 PM
Here is the tiebreaker scenario courtesy of Delaware Valley Sports Information Director extraordinaire Matt Levy...

First, remember that the conference names co- or tri-champions regardless of head-to-head results.  If two (or three) teams finish with the same record, the conference recognizes both as champs.  Thus, congratulations to MAC champions Albright.  They may end up tri-champions but they are guaranteed a piece of the title.

As for the AQ, there are three teams who still have a chance.

Albright wins the AQ with a victory next week at Del Val.  They don't need help since they are up one game with one left.  Actually that is the only scenario in which the Lions win the AQ.  Simple enough.

Lycoming wins the AQ with a victory at home over Lebanon Valley and a Delaware Valley win over Albright.  The Warriors would finish in a first place tie with Albright and Del Val but have head-to-head wins against both.

Delaware Valley wins the AQ with a victory at home over Albright and a Lebanon Valley win at Lycoming.  The Aggies would finish in a first place tie with Albright and Lebanon Valley but have head-to-head wins against both.

While Lebanon Valley can finish as tri-champions with a win at Lycoming and a Delaware Valley win, they cannot win the AQ.  That situation creates the three-way tie under which Del Val gets the AQ.

So all four teams with a shot at the title and AQ will play with something on the line next week.  Should be fun.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM
This is My prediction, which by default includes how I think the Alfred/SJF and Cortaca jug games will go: 

1.  Cortland -- Pool A
2.  Muhlenberg  -- Pool A
3.  Montclair State -- Pool C
4.  Hobart -- Pool A
5.  Ithaca -- Pool A
6.  Plymouth State -- Pool A
7. RPI -- Pool C
8.  Albright -- Pool A
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 09, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM
This is My prediction, which by default includes how I think the Alfred/SJF and Cortaca jug games will go: 

1.  Cortland -- Pool A
2.  Muhlenberg  -- Pool A
3.  Montclair State -- Pool C
4.  Hobart -- Pool A
5.  Ithaca -- Pool A
6.  Plymouth State -- Pool A
7. RPI -- Pool C
8.  Albright -- Pool A

Muhlenberg imported from South as a no. 2 seed, interesting idea.  I suppose it could happen.  I have a hunch that East Region playoff teams can compete with the Mules.

I don't see how a two-loss Ithaca gets seeded no. 5.  I think they'd have to go in at no. 7.  That would send them to Allentown for a first round game at Muhlenberg.  Should be a good game.

But the Cortaca Jug game looks amazing right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 09, 2008, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 09, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM
This is My prediction, which by default includes how I think the Alfred/SJF and Cortaca jug games will go: 

1.  Cortland -- Pool A
2.  Muhlenberg  -- Pool A
3.  Montclair State -- Pool C
4.  Hobart -- Pool A
5.  Ithaca -- Pool A
6.  Plymouth State -- Pool A
7. RPI -- Pool C
8.  Albright -- Pool A

Muhlenberg imported from South as a no. 2 seed, interesting idea.  I suppose it could happen.  I have a hunch that East Region playoff teams can compete with the Mules.

I don't see how a two-loss Ithaca gets seeded no. 5.  I think they'd have to go in at no. 7.  That would send them to Allentown for a first round game at Muhlenberg.  Should be a good game.

But the Cortaca Jug game looks amazing right now.

Does everyone remeber the last Mules team that came East with the number 1 rushing offense in the land?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 09, 2008, 01:04:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM
This is My prediction, which by default includes how I think the Alfred/SJF and Cortaca jug games will go: 

1.  Cortland -- Pool A
2.  Muhlenberg  -- Pool A
3.  Montclair State -- Pool C
4.  Hobart -- Pool A
5.  Ithaca -- Pool A
6.  Plymouth State -- Pool A
7. RPI -- Pool C
8.  Albright -- Pool A

Are you serious, a 4 loss SJF team with its only losses to MUC, Salisbury in 4ot, Wick by 3 and a good AU team on the road not in? ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 09, 2008, 01:08:47 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 09, 2008, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 09, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM
This is My prediction, which by default includes how I think the Alfred/SJF and Cortaca jug games will go: 

1.  Cortland -- Pool A
2.  Muhlenberg  -- Pool A
3.  Montclair State -- Pool C
4.  Hobart -- Pool A
5.  Ithaca -- Pool A
6.  Plymouth State -- Pool A
7. RPI -- Pool C
8.  Albright -- Pool A

Muhlenberg imported from South as a no. 2 seed, interesting idea.  I suppose it could happen.  I have a hunch that East Region playoff teams can compete with the Mules.

I don't see how a two-loss Ithaca gets seeded no. 5.  I think they'd have to go in at no. 7.  That would send them to Allentown for a first round game at Muhlenberg.  Should be a good game.

But the Cortaca Jug game looks amazing right now.

Does everyone remeber the last Mules team that came East with the number 1 rushing offense in the land?

They were ranked #1 on defense, not offense...

And Mr. Robinson had close to 200yds at halftime...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 09, 2008, 01:10:53 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 09, 2008, 01:08:47 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 09, 2008, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 09, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM
This is My prediction, which by default includes how I think the Alfred/SJF and Cortaca jug games will go: 

1.  Cortland -- Pool A
2.  Muhlenberg  -- Pool A
3.  Montclair State -- Pool C
4.  Hobart -- Pool A
5.  Ithaca -- Pool A
6.  Plymouth State -- Pool A
7. RPI -- Pool C
8.  Albright -- Pool A

Muhlenberg imported from South as a no. 2 seed, interesting idea.  I suppose it could happen.  I have a hunch that East Region playoff teams can compete with the Mules.

I don't see how a two-loss Ithaca gets seeded no. 5.  I think they'd have to go in at no. 7.  That would send them to Allentown for a first round game at Muhlenberg.  Should be a good game.

But the Cortaca Jug game looks amazing right now.

Does everyone remeber the last Mules team that came East with the number 1 rushing offense in the land?

They were ranked #1 on defense, not offense...

And Mr. Robinson had close to 200yds at halftime...

Yes that is correct...thanks
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 09, 2008, 01:33:03 PM
Remember that seeding don't necessarily dictate matchups.  Hobart has played against "random" seeds a couple of years, including last year when they were the 5 and SJF was the 2.  So seeding and matchup may not be symmetrical.  Multiple teams from the same conference further complicates matters, so if Ithaca/SJF, Montclair and/or RPI get in (assuming Hobart wins next week), I could see one or two matchups not dictated by seed.

I also wonder if Hobart might jump Montclair in the regional rankings.  No doubt, Bart's loss was worse, but with a little seasoning and a superior win this week (on the road vs. a higher ranked opponent) could this occur?  Given the above, I'm not really sweating seeding if Bart gets in, but just curious about how the committee has operated in the past on this. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 09, 2008, 01:36:07 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 09, 2008, 01:33:03 PM
Remember that seeding don't necessarily dictate matchups.  Hobart has played against "random" seeds a couple of years, including last year when they were the 5 and SJF was the 2.  So seeding and matchup may not be symmetrical.  Multiple teams from the same conference further complicates matters, so if Ithaca/SJF, Montclair and/or RPI get in (assuming Hobart wins next week), I could see one or two matchups not dictated by seed.

I also wonder if Hobart might jump Montclair in the regional rankings.  No doubt, Bart's loss was worse, but with a little seasoning and a superior win this week (on the road vs. a higher ranked opponent) could this occur?  Given the above, I'm not really sweating seeding if Bart gets in, but just curious about how the committee has operated in the past on this. 

Yea I could see Hobart getting the 3-8 seed.  Kind of all depends on what other teams do for their seed though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2008, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 09, 2008, 01:33:03 PM
Remember that seeding don't necessarily dictate matchups.  Hobart has played against "random" seeds a couple of years, including last year when they were the 5 and SJF was the 2.  So seeding and matchup may not be symmetrical.  Multiple teams from the same conference further complicates matters, so if Ithaca/SJF, Montclair and/or RPI get in (assuming Hobart wins next week), I could see one or two matchups not dictated by seed.

I also wonder if Hobart might jump Montclair in the regional rankings.  No doubt, Bart's loss was worse, but with a little seasoning and a superior win this week (on the road vs. a higher ranked opponent) could this occur?  Given the above, I'm not really sweating seeding if Bart gets in, but just curious about how the committee has operated in the past on this. 

interesting thought, but i don't see it happening.  montclair's close loss to cortland, national ranking, and impressive win over a good rowan team last weekend keeps hobart below them - but that's just my opinion.....

re: seedings - other than the #1 it's kind of a crap shoot (especially considering how hanna has run things in the past ie, the 2nd round del val game when hobart was the higher seed that c/should have been a home game for hobart, but instead hanna thought it would be better for the team to travel 300-400 miles to DE instead).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2008, 03:13:41 PM
East Region (as of last updated rankings)
1. Cortland State 8-0 8-0 - beat Brockport - stays put at 1
2. RPI 7-0 7-0 - lost to Hobart will probably drop to below 4 or 5
3. Ithaca 6-1 7-1 - beat Alfred - either moves to 2 or stays at 3
4. Montclair State 7-1 7-1 - beat Rowan either moves to 2 or 3
5. Rowan 7-1 7-1 - lost to Montclair - probably drops to 6-8
6. Hartwick 6-1 6-1 - lost to Springfield - either drops out or down to 9 or 10
7. Hobart 6-1 6-1 - beat RPI - probabaly moves up to 4
8. Plymouth State 7-1 8-1 - beat Salve Regina - stands pat or moves up to 6 or 7
9. Husson 6-0 6-2 - beat Becker - moves up to 6-8
10. Curry 7-1 8-1 - beat Umassdarts - moves up

Possible we see SJFC back in the poll this week(?)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 09, 2008, 08:17:14 PM
If North Central wins next week vs a 7-2 Elmhurst team (not a given) and MUC wins next week (probably a given) then MUC will probably be shipped over regardless of the results of Cortaca.

North Central is ranked #2 in the North, #2 in the D3.com and #4 in the AFCA poll, if they go 10-0 the NCAA will feel that they deserve a #1 seed and the easiest solution would be to put MUC in the East, North Central in the North, Muhlenburgh or Millsaps in the South and Williamette/Occidental/Monmouth in the West...

If Cortland and SJF win:
1-MUC
2-Cortland
3-Hobart
4-Montclair
5-SJF
6-Plymouth St
7-Lyco
8-RPI

If Cortland loses and SJF wins:
1-MUC
2-Ithaca
3-Cortland
4-Hobart
5-Montclair
6-SJF
7-Plymouth St
8-Lyco

If Cortland wins and SJF loses:
1-MUC
2-Cortland
3-Hobart
4-Montclair
5-Ithaca
6-Plymouth St
7-RPI
8-Lyco

If Cortland loses and SJF loses:
1-MUC
2-Ithaca
3-Cortland
4-Hobart
5-Montclair
6-Plymouth St
7-RPI
8-Lyco
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 08:22:05 PM
Upstate, so you think that Albright will lose out in the MAC?   (Thanks.    :) )
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 09, 2008, 08:27:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 08:22:05 PM
Upstate, so you think that Albright will lose out in the MAC?   (Thanks.    :) )

Yeah, they have DVC...if DVC beats Albright and Lyco beats Leb Valley Lyco is in...I think
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 09, 2008, 08:49:58 PM
And you also think an 8-1 RPI gets the pool C over an 8-2 Ithaca  but a 7-3 SJF would get it over the 8-1 RPI?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Cardinal 4 Life on November 09, 2008, 08:59:45 PM
fisher would be a pool A if they win Saturday.....only way they get in
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 09, 2008, 09:00:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 09, 2008, 08:49:58 PM
And you also think an 8-1 RPI gets the pool C over an 8-2 Ithaca  but a 7-3 SJF would get it over the 8-1 RPI?

A 7-3 SJF team automatically goes!

Yes I think RPI gets in over IC...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 09, 2008, 09:02:30 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 09, 2008, 09:00:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 09, 2008, 08:49:58 PM
And you also think an 8-1 RPI gets the pool C over an 8-2 Ithaca  but a 7-3 SJF would get it over the 8-1 RPI?

A 7-3 SJF team automatically goes!

Yes I think RPI gets in over IC...

Never mind!  good work. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2008, 02:45:33 PM
An interesting post from the NEFC board by 63Center from Thursday that I thought should get bumped to this thread:

Quote from: 63Center on November 07, 2008, 10:42:22 AM
I can't see the NEFC getting a second team into the NCAA.  There are a lot of other teams that are more deserving, even if they have 2 losses, due to plaing a more competitve schedule.  If teams like Curry or BSC want to make it into the NCAA without winning the NEFC they are going to have to play and beat a couple of good competive teams and that won't happen until there is scheduling relief from the NEFC that will allow them to play more games outside of the NEFC.  Maybe one answer would be to only require the NEFC teams to play all of the teams within their division (Boyd and Bogan), but no cross-over games.  That allows them to  play anyone else for the rest of the games. The two teams with the best divisional records play for the NEFC championship and be the AQ for the NEFC.  Just a thought.

I'd have to agree (as most reading this thread) that the NEFC will only get 1 team into the NCAA due to the perceived relative lack of strength in the NEFC.  Some follow-ups to this post theorized that strong OOC competition for the NEFC are a no-lose proposition since they are expected to lose and currently only get 1 bid to the tournament a year anyway.  A couple of "upsets" might change the perception of the league and provide a better chance for the top teams to secure an at-large selection.
Title: ECACs
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 11, 2008, 10:37:51 AM
For those of us not lucky enough to have their team in the NCAAs here is the list of schools that declared for the ECACs this year (with a strikethrough for Pool A teams and teams with a high probability of making the NCAA field):

Hobart College
SUNY Maritime
St. John Fisher
Husson
MIT
Curry College
RPI
Hartwick College
Plymouth State University
WPI
Alfred University
Ithaca
Union
Salisbury University
Montclair State University
The College at Brockport
William Paterson
Lebanon Valley College
Muhlenberg College
Delaware valley
FDU-Florham
Albright College
Kean University
Widener University
Moravian College
Carnegie Mellon
Johns Hopkins University
Frostburg State University
Grove City College
Waynesburg University
Washington & Jefferson College
Catholic University
Gettysburg
Wesley College

From a personal standpoint, I'd love to see an Alfred-Moravian ECAC since my cousin is a Moravian grad and that would make for a fun afternoon and interesting Thanksgiving dinner!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2008, 10:41:37 AM
I'd love to see Brockport (presuming they make it to 6-4 after playing Buff state) vs. the E8 team that gets left out between Fisher or Ithaca.  It's also possible we could see a Brockport vs. Alfred matchup... That's relatively close. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 11, 2008, 10:49:54 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 11, 2008, 10:41:37 AM
I'd love to see Brockport (presuming they make it to 6-4 after playing Buff state) vs. the E8 team that gets left out between Fisher or Ithaca.  It's also possible we could see a Brockport vs. Alfred matchup... That's relatively close. 

AU vs Port would be interesting....

If its at Port i'd take the 10 minute drive down 31 to go the game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 11, 2008, 08:59:11 PM
Upstate's Tuesday Edition Of His East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenburgh (10-0)
2) Ithaca (9-1)
3) Hobart (8-1)
4) Cortland (9-1)
5) Albright (8-2)
6) Montclair (9-1)
7) Plymouth St (10-1)
8.) SJFC (7-3)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2008, 09:12:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 11, 2008, 08:59:11 PM
Upstate's Tuesday Edition Of His East Region Projection:

1) Muhlenberg (10-0)  CC Pool A
2) Ithaca (9-1)   Pool C
3) Hobart (8-1)  Pool A  LL
4) Cortland (9-1)  Pool C
5) Albright (8-2)  Pool A MAC
6) Montclair (9-1)  Pool C NJAC
7) Plymouth St (10-1)  Pool A  NEFC
8.) SJFC (7-3)       Pool A E8

Following your thinking here, friend...  :)

At the Pool C table, we have

East:  Ithaca, Cortland, Montclair
South:  HSU W&J
North:  Otterbein (if they win this weekend), CCIW 2-loss runner-up, OAC 2-loss #3 team
West:  UW-Whitewater (assuming UW-SP wins), Redlands

In no certain order, the first five teams off the table include Ithaca, Cortland, HSU, Otterbein and UW-Whitewater.

Montclair comes off over W&J, CCIW runner-up and Redlands.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 11, 2008, 09:16:48 PM
cortland is a pool a... and for everyone's sake lets hope UW-SP loses this weekend... here's a question since there is no sure fire #1 in the west why not send a Wabash or North Central to the west instead of the east... though this is all dependent on Cortland winning and giving the east a viable #1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 11, 2008, 09:36:16 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 11, 2008, 08:59:11 PM
RS81's Mod of Upstate's Tuesday Edition Of His East Region Projection:

1.) Muhlenberg (10-0)  CC Pool A
2.) Ithaca (9-1)   Pool C E8
3.) Cortland (9-1)  Pool A NJAC
4.) Montclair (9-1)  Pool C NJAC
5.) Hobart (8-1)  Pool A  LL
6.) RPI (8-1)  Pool C LL
7.) Plymouth St (10-1)  Pool A  NEFC
8.) SJFC (7-3)       Pool A E8

Okay, let me try ...  :)

At the Pool C table, we have

East:  Ithaca, Montclair, RPI
South:  HSU W&J
North:  Otterbein (if they win this weekend), CCIW 2-loss runner-up, OAC 2-loss #3 team
West:  UW-Whitewater (assuming UW-SP wins), Redlands

In no certain order, the first five teams off the table include Ithaca, Montclair, HSU, Otterbein and UW-Whitewater.

RPI arm wrestles W&J, CCIW runner-up and Redlands.

Albright gets shipped south, for a first round game v. Salisbury.

I do enjoy seeing a Pool C team ranked so much higher than the Pool A team from its conference, but I can't let Hobart leapfrog Montclair, and Upstate, you can't let an unranked MAC team in ahead of ranked Plymouth St.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Based on the new Regional Rankings it looks like SJF, if they get in, will be the #8 seed for the NCAAs and will be heading to either Cortland or Mount Union...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 01:47:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 01:40:11 PM
Based on the new Regional Rankings it looks like SJF, if they get in, will be the #8 seed for the NCAAs and will be heading to either Cortland or Mount Union...

I posted this in the E8 board, sorry for the repost. Re: the reginoal rankings

I have to say, how in the world did Hartwick stay at #6? I know Rowan fell behind them with their second loss, but man, that tells you a lot about how bad the East is. A team with a 6-1 region record can lose to a 2-6 squad and they can't find more than one team to jump them?

Also, kind of a strange question: What role do these rankings play in selections of at-large teams? I ask because it looks like IC will get left out if they lose this week. I know the auto-bids mess things up so some team ranked below IC will clinch a Pool A bid, but I see IC at #2 and playing on the road at #1 and it's kind of amazing that you can go from being #2 one week to missing out all-together.

I'm not saying it's unfair, mind you. Looks like we have 10 one-loss teams vying for 6 spots right now. So obviously, a lot of them would need to lose for an 8-2 IC team to get in---and frankly, 8-2 and a backdoor bid shouldn't be IC's goal anyway. I guess it's just a bit wierd to think the #2 team could lose to the #1 team and miss out on the playoffs all together. Thoughts?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 12, 2008, 01:58:49 PM
sweet mother o pearl wick is number 6 on the regional rankings -unreal
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 12, 2008, 02:11:07 PM
QuoteAlbright gets shipped south, for a first round game v. Salisbury.

Salisbury is a long shot at best to make the playoffs.  Albright could travel to Muhlenberg instead, though.  Reading to Allentown is a very short trip.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 12, 2008, 02:16:51 PM
meant to post this here...

Quote from: 'gro on November 12, 2008, 02:15:44 PM
Gro thinks that if Cortland wins they should get a #1 seed.  Gro has no issues shipping Mount Union east either, it makes geographical sense... but not if Cortland is 10-0. Muhlenburg is another option but I don't think they beat out Cortland either... They out there with some teams very far away (MS, TX). Ship them east, as a #2... or bring in Case Western as a high (home game) seed.

Cortaca affects many teams this weekend.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 12, 2008, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 12, 2008, 02:11:07 PM
QuoteAlbright gets shipped south, for a first round game v. Salisbury.

Salisbury is a long shot at best to make the playoffs.  Albright could travel to Muhlenberg instead, though.  Reading to Allentown is a very short trip.

I think I meant to say Wesley, not Salisbury.  I agree that Salisbury is a longshot.  OTOH, Wesley's looking pretty good right now, given the latest Regional Rankings.

Albright to Muhlenberg would be an easy call, no doubt.  For the sake of the East Region, I would prefer that Cortland win this Saturday, but I also think most East playoff teams can compete with Muhlenberg.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 12, 2008, 03:02:35 PM
Since it is being talked about but hasn't been posted yet:

East Region
1. Cortland State 9-0 9-0
2. Ithaca 7-1 8-1
3. Montclair State 8-1 8-1
4. Hobart 7-1 7-1
5. RPI 7-1 7-1
6. Hartwick 6-2 6-2
7. Plymouth State 8-1 9-1
8. Rowan 7-2 7-2
9. Curry 8-1 9-1
10. Albright 6-1 7-2

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 12, 2008, 02:48:21 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 12, 2008, 02:11:07 PM
QuoteAlbright gets shipped south, for a first round game v. Salisbury.

Salisbury is a long shot at best to make the playoffs.  Albright could travel to Muhlenberg instead, though.  Reading to Allentown is a very short trip.

I think I meant to say Wesley, not Salisbury.  I agree that Salisbury is a longshot.  OTOH, Wesley's looking pretty good right now, given the latest Regional Rankings.

Albright to Muhlenberg would be an easy call, no doubt.  For the sake of the East Region, I would prefer that Cortland win this Saturday, but I also think most East playoff teams can compete with Muhlenberg.

Can I ask a question that may seem dumb? What do people think about the NCAA shifting teams to other regions? I understand the logic I guess. (As it was explained to me, it was to ensure that the 4 best teams make the semifinals, so if say, MUC is #1 and North Central is #2 they're not meeting in the regional finals) but it just seems wierd I guess, like if the NCAA moved Texas and Texas Tech to different parts of the Big 12 so they don't knock each other off before the national title game or something. I can understand wanting to reward the best teams I suppose. But at the same time, isn't that just one of those "them's the breaks" kind of things? You play in a tough conference or region, maybe you don't make it as far as a "weaker" team from a less strong conference or region.

I guess maybe this is sour grapes. I'm an IC fan, and when I see that they're ranked #2 in the East with a chance to be #1 if they beat Cortland, but then the logic seems to be that someone is then going to get moved from somewhere to join the East like last season. Obviously, if IC were to go 10-0, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems a bit odd that IC--or whoever was #2 last season to MUC--finishes with what the comittee feels is the best team in the East, but can't get a #1 seed and instead get some road matchup in the regional finals. Why not move a team in to be an #8 seed?

I really am curious to the thought process going on. Am I the only one who thinks this way?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:12:14 PM

Can I ask a question that may seem dumb? What do people think about the NCAA shifting teams to other regions? I understand the logic I guess. (As it was explained to me, it was to ensure that the 4 best teams make the semifinals, so if say, MUC is #1 and North Central is #2 they're not meeting in the regional finals) but it just seems wierd I guess, like if the NCAA moved Texas and Texas Tech to different parts of the Big 12 so they don't knock each other off before the national title game or something. I can understand wanting to reward the best teams I suppose. But at the same time, isn't that just one of those "them's the breaks" kind of things? You play in a tough conference or region, maybe you don't make it as far as a "weaker" team from a less strong conference or region.

I guess maybe this is sour grapes. I'm an IC fan, and when I see that they're ranked #2 in the East with a chance to be #1 if they beat Cortland, but then the logic seems to be that someone is then going to get moved from somewhere to join the East like last season. Obviously, if IC were to go 10-0, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems a bit odd that IC--or whoever was #2 last season to MUC--finishes with what the comittee feels is the best team in the East, but can't get a #1 seed and instead get some road matchup in the regional finals. Why not move a team in to be an #8 seed?

I really am curious to the thought process going on. Am I the only one who thinks this way?

Alot of the SJF guys said that last year when they were watching the selection show that they expected to be the #1 seed at 9-1.  They were then shocked to find out that the NCAA "moved" MUC to the East.  I bet that the NCAA was sick of having 10-0 east teams either slip up somewhere along the line in the playoffs or get pasted when they had to go to the SEMI's.  Meanwhile in other regions highly ranked teams are getting knocked off by higher ranked teams all because of their geographic location.

To me it makes sense to TRY to take the 4 best teams and give them #1 seeds, much like March Maddness.  I'd rather have a full sets of competitive brackets than a free ticket to the Semi's for the east. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 12, 2008, 03:38:41 PM
If Fisher does get the #8 seed, that leads me to believe that MUC would not be the imported team. Doesn't the selection committee try to avoid regular season matchups in the first round? Also, they've played so often in the last few years and will play again in Week 1 next year. You can say "that's not a consideration" all day, but I still think the committee would avoid that if they can.

Also, I'm surprised more people aren't taking into consideration what may happen if Ithaca loses but Fisher also loses, thus giving Ithaca the Pool A bid. Even though I think Fisher wins that game, it's a very real possibility given Fisher's inconsistencies so far.

Here's my best guess if that's the scenario:

1) Cortland
2) Muhlenburg
3) Montclair St.
4) Hobart
5) Albright
6) RPI
7) Ithaca
8 ) Plymouth State

That could set up a Muhlenburg v. Ithaca game. Ithaca to Allentown is a shade under 3 hours and is very doable. Is it crazy to think Ithaca would still be ranked ahead of Plymouth State under this scenario?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 12, 2008, 03:43:04 PM
Will an undefeated team really be moved to be a #2?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2008, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 12, 2008, 03:38:41 PM
If Fisher does get the #8 seed, that leads me to believe that MUC would not be the imported team. Doesn't the selection committee try to avoid regular season matchups in the first round? Also, they've played so often in the last few years and will play again in Week 1 next year. You can say "that's not a consideration" all day, but I still think the committee would avoid that if they can.

Also, I'm surprised more people aren't taking into consideration what may happen if Ithaca loses but Fisher also loses, thus giving Ithaca the Pool A bid. Even though I think Fisher wins that game, it's a very real possibility given Fisher's inconsistencies so far.

Here's my best guess if that's the scenario:

1) Cortland
2) Muhlenburg
3) Montclair St.
4) Hobart
5) Albright
6) RPI
7) Ithaca
8 ) Plymouth State

That could set up a Muhlenburg v. Ithaca game. Ithaca to Allentown is a shade under 3 hours and is very doable. Is it crazy to think Ithaca would still be ranked ahead of Plymouth State under this scenario?


I was under the assumption that they try to avoid conference rematches in the first round...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:12:14 PM

Can I ask a question that may seem dumb? What do people think about the NCAA shifting teams to other regions? I understand the logic I guess. (As it was explained to me, it was to ensure that the 4 best teams make the semifinals, so if say, MUC is #1 and North Central is #2 they're not meeting in the regional finals) but it just seems wierd I guess, like if the NCAA moved Texas and Texas Tech to different parts of the Big 12 so they don't knock each other off before the national title game or something. I can understand wanting to reward the best teams I suppose. But at the same time, isn't that just one of those "them's the breaks" kind of things? You play in a tough conference or region, maybe you don't make it as far as a "weaker" team from a less strong conference or region.

I guess maybe this is sour grapes. I'm an IC fan, and when I see that they're ranked #2 in the East with a chance to be #1 if they beat Cortland, but then the logic seems to be that someone is then going to get moved from somewhere to join the East like last season. Obviously, if IC were to go 10-0, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems a bit odd that IC--or whoever was #2 last season to MUC--finishes with what the comittee feels is the best team in the East, but can't get a #1 seed and instead get some road matchup in the regional finals. Why not move a team in to be an #8 seed?

I really am curious to the thought process going on. Am I the only one who thinks this way?

Alot of the SJF guys said that last year when they were watching the selection show that they expected to be the #1 seed at 9-1.  They were then shocked to find out that the NCAA "moved" MUC to the East.  I bet that the NCAA was sick of having 10-0 east teams either slip up somewhere along the line in the playoffs or get pasted when they had to go to the SEMI's.  Meanwhile in other regions highly ranked teams are getting knocked off by higher ranked teams all because of their geographic location.

To me it makes sense to TRY to take the 4 best teams and give them #1 seeds, much like March Maddness.  I'd rather have a full sets of competitive brackets than a free ticket to the Semi's for the east. 

I understand that argument, but that's what happens in sports sometimes no? The SEC and Big 12 are sitting there cannibalizing each other, and even though the two best teams in the country might be from the same conference, we're not getting them in the National Title game. The Yankees won 89 games this season, which would have put them 5 games up on the Dodgers in the NL West. We didn't shift the Yankees to the NL. Philadelphia is 5-4 and in last because they're 0-3 in a brutal division, while the Cardinals are 6-3 and have a four game lead on that entire, godawful division. Sometimes you miss the playoffs--or get knocked off earlier--because you play in a tough region. Is that so awful?

I guess it just seems like, hey, sometimes you get a bum draw, but it happens you know? You really have a tough time getting out of region games on the schedule, so if you're the best in the East, shouldn't you be rewarded as such?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2008, 03:56:11 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 12, 2008, 03:38:41 PM
If Fisher does get the #8 seed, that leads me to believe that MUC would not be the imported team. Doesn't the selection committee try to avoid regular season matchups in the first round? Also, they've played so often in the last few years and will play again in Week 1 next year. You can say "that's not a consideration" all day, but I still think the committee would avoid that if they can.

Also, I'm surprised more people aren't taking into consideration what may happen if Ithaca loses but Fisher also loses, thus giving Ithaca the Pool A bid. Even though I think Fisher wins that game, it's a very real possibility given Fisher's inconsistencies so far.

Here's my best guess if that's the scenario:

1) Cortland
2) Muhlenburg
3) Montclair St.
4) Hobart
5) Albright
6) RPI
7) Ithaca
8 ) Plymouth State

That could set up a Muhlenburg v. Ithaca game. Ithaca to Allentown is a shade under 3 hours and is very doable. Is it crazy to think Ithaca would still be ranked ahead of Plymouth State under this scenario?


I was under the assumption that they try to avoid conference rematches in the first round...

its not a conference rematch...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2008, 04:11:09 PM
I posted this in the LLPP with respect to the RPI question (in Pool C or not?).  I thought some of you might like to read it here.

This is an analysis of the state of affairs if Pool C were being picked today.  In order to perform this analysis, we must first square away some Pool A and Pool B issues.


Pool A Issues
-------------

As you know, Pool A represents 23 slots.  Currently, 14 of these slots have been determined (courtesy Pat Coleman's post on the Daily Dose):

ASC: Mary Hardin-Baylor
CC: Muhlenberg
CCIW: North Central
HCAC: Franklin
IIAC: Wartburg
MIAA: Trine
MWC: Monmouth
NCAC: Wabash
NJAC: Cortland State
NWC: Willamette
OAC: Mount Union
PAC: Thomas More
SCIAC: Occidental
SCAC: Millsaps

Only one of these teams (Thomas More) does not appear in the present NCAA Regional Rankings.  This weekend, the remaining nine slots will be filled this weekend.  Here is an analysis of those races (courtesy Ralph Turner in response to Pat Coleman's post):

E8 — SJF (4-1) must beat Alfred (3-2) to get the co-championship and the Pool A bid over Ithaca (5-1) which plays Cortland St.

LL — Hobart (5-1) must beat Rochester (3-3) to clinch the AQ. RPI (5-1) earns a co-championship with a win over Merchant Marine (1-5).

MAC — Albright (5-1) can clinch with a win over Del Valley (4-2). LebValley (4-2) and Lycoming (4-2) also play.

MIAC — Carleton (5-2) at SJU (5-2) for the outright title and Pool A bid.

NATHC — Aurora (6-0) hosts Lakeland (5-1) for the Pool A bid.

NEFC — Plymouth State at Maine Maritime in the NEFC Bowl.

ODAC — Catholic (4-1) hosts Bridgewater (2-3). A win gives them the AQ. H-SC (4-1) goes to Randolph-Macon (3-2).

USASouth — CNU (6-0) hosts Ferrum (5-1) for the AQ.

WIAC — UWSP (5-1) hosts UW-Lacrosse (3-3) to clinch the AQ. UW-Whitewater (5-1) is at Platteville (2-4).

From this list when cross-referenced with the new Rankings, there are only FOUR cases in which a present Pool C likely candidate could be converted into a Pool A winner:

1) Ithaca (SJF would not replace it as a Pool C candidate if SJF loses);
2) RPI (Hobart would not replace it as a Pool C candidate if Hobart loses);
3) Hampden-Sydney (Catholic would not replace it as a Pool C candidate if Catholic loses); and
4) UW-Whitewater (UW-Stevens Point COULD replace it as a Pool C candidate with a loss, although it would be a stretch).

Keep those scenarios in mind for later in this post.


Pool B Issues
-------------

Now, let's look at Pool B.  The likely choices for the three Pool B bids are:

1) Case Western Reserve (8-0 Regional, 9-0 Overall);
2) Wesley (3-1 Regional, 7-1 Overall); and
3) EITHER the winner of Huntingdon/LaGrange (H is 7-1 Regional, 8-1 Overall while L is 7-0 Regional, 8-1 Overall) OR Northwestern (Minn.) (8-1 Regional, 8-1 Overall).

I'll comment more on the Pool B third slot later only if it plays a role in the analysis.


How Pool C Works
------------------

So, now, let's look at how Pool C works.  There are six slots this year in Pool C.  The process generally utilized by the Selection Committe is to rank the Pool C nominees in each Region against the others in that Region before matching up the top Pool C seed in each of the four Regions.  The Committee will take the top team out of the four being reviewed, place it in Pool C and replace that team with the next highest seed in that Region's Pool C seedings.  This repeats until all six teams are selected.

Using this week's Regional Rankings, here is the likely seeding of each region's Pool C nominees:

East:

1) Ithaca, 2) Montclair, 3) RPI, 4) Hartwick, 5) Rowan and 6) Curry

North:

1) Otterbein, 2) Wooster and 3) Elmhurst

South:

1) Hardin-Simmons, 2) Hampden-Sydney, 3) Wash. & Jeff. and 4) The Winner of LaGrange/Huntingdon if not chosen for Pool C

West:

1) UW-Whitewater, 2) Redlands and 3) Northwestern (Minn.) if not chosen for Pool C


Pool C Selection
---------------

Now it is time to go through the six rounds for Pool C selection:

Round 1
--------
(Note:  Opp. W/L is the regional W/L record of the final opponent for that team, since these numbers have yet to be figured into the team's OWP)

                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ithaca         East        7-1     8-1        .540        .544         9-0
Otterbein      North       8-1     8-1        .465        .545         5-4
Hardin-Simmons South       9-1     9-1        .511        .512         ---
UW-Whitewater  West        7-1     8-1        .509        .568         4-4


Remember that for these purposes, we are assuming all teams considered will win this Saturday.  At this point, the likelihood is that since Otterbein's only loss was to Mount Union this season, it will likely receive the first Pool C bid.  We will award Otterbein and replace it with Wooster. 


Round 2
--------
                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ithaca         East        7-1     8-1        .540        .544         9-0
Wooster        North       6-2     7-2        .584        .473         5-2
Hardin-Simmons South       9-1     9-1        .511        .512         ---
UW-Whitewater  West        7-1     8-1        .509        .568         4-4


This appears to be a pretty close call between Ithaca, Hardin-Simmons and UW-Whitewater.  Each of these teams have the teams representing each of their only losses already in the tournament via Pool A.  In this situation, my belief is that UW-Whitewater, because of its defending National Champion status, is selected at this stage.  We will roll Redlands into UW-Whitewater's slot.


Round 3
--------
                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ithaca         East        7-1     8-1        .540        .544         9-0
Wooster        North       6-2     7-2        .584        .473         5-2
Hardin-Simmons South       9-1     9-1        .511        .512         ---
Redlands       West        7-1     7-1        .464        .489         6-2


The two teams that jump out are the two remaining from our discussion in Round 2:  Ithaca and Hardin-Simmons.  Ithaca would have had a quality win vs. Cortland that will raise its OWP above .560 (although this could change based on prior opponents' results).  The numbers and quality win place Ithaca easily into this slot.  Let's roll Montclair St. into Ithaca's spot.


Round 4
--------
                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Montclair St.  East        8-1     8-1        .474        .535         6-3
Wooster        North       6-2     7-2        .584        .473         5-2
Hardin-Simmons South       9-1     9-1        .511        .512         ---
Redlands       West        7-1     7-1        .464        .489         6-2


Hardin-Simmons should win in this scenario based on its one-loss status and decent OWP and OOWP numbers.  Wooster's second loss and OOWP don't allow it to be picked at this stage, even though both of its losses came against undefeated teams (inflating its OWP already).  Roll out Hardin-Simmons and roll in Hampden-Sydney.


Round 5
--------
                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Montclair St.  East        8-1     8-1        .474        .535         6-3
Wooster        North       6-2     7-2        .584        .473         5-2
Hampden-Sydney South       7-1     8-1        .616        .514         4-3
Redlands       West        7-1     7-1        .464        .489         6-2


Hampden-Sydney's OWP will remain pretty stable, so this is a problem scenario for Montclair St. in a comparison.  Wooster's problem is still that the OWP of the teams it actually beat is low, so I can't see Wooster selected here.  Therefore, I have to give the nod to Hampden-Sydney at this point and roll Washington & Jefferson into its slot.


Round 6
--------
                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Montclair St.  East        8-1     8-1        .474        .535         6-3
Wooster        North       6-2     7-2        .584        .473         5-2
Wash. & Jeff.  South       7-1     8-1        .377        .516         3-4
Redlands       West        7-1     7-1        .464        .489         6-2


Each of these teams has some issues we must look at.  First, Montclair's OWP is not the strongest on the board.  However, this week's game against Kean will help propel it closer to .500.  Wooster's second loss and artificial OWP (call this subjective, or call it common sense to give only partial weight to two losses to undefeated teams) with a pretty low OOWP does not help it still.  Wash. & Jeff. is looking pretty ugly at a .377 OWP (which won't improve much this weekend, if at all).  This is the lowest OWP we have seen so far.  Finally, Redlands will have numbers competitive to Montclair -- however, there are two problems.  First, the OOWP numbers will be below Montclair's numbers no matter what.  Second, there may be eight West Bracket teams already at this point.  A ninth West team would force a flight for every round that a "shipping" school would remain in the playoffs.  From my discussion with Mr. Kaiser, it seems like this year, more than any other, this could be an issue.  For these reasons, I believe Montclair gets selected in this round.  I will roll RPI into its slot for comparison's sake, as I know that question is forthcoming.



Final State of the Board
-----------------------
                           Reg.    All                                 Opp.
Team          Region       W/L     W/L        OWP         OOWP         W/L
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RPI            East        7-1     7-1        .495        .526         2-7
Wooster        North       6-2     7-2        .584        .473         5-2
Wash. & Jeff.  South       7-1     8-1        .377        .516         3-4
Redlands       West        7-1     7-1        .464        .489         6-2


Note that out of these teams, the only one with a respectable out-of-conference win is Redlands (over 6-3 Whitworth).  Looking at the numbers and based on previous discussions in this post, I believe that RPI would be the 33rd team (i.e., the best team not selected) if there are no upsets this weekend involving the teams selected ahead of them or the vulnerable Pool A teams in those same teams' conferences.


As a review, the six Pool C teams at this time appear to be:

1) Otterbein, 2) UW-Whitewater, 3) Ithaca, 4) Hardin-Simmons, 5) Hampden-Sydney and 6) Montclair St.


What RPI Needs to Happen
--------------------------
RPI would stand a very decent chance of making the NCAA Playoffs if any of these scenarios occurred this weekend (or virtually a 100% chance if two or more occurred), assuming Hobart and RPI both win:

1) Cortland beats Ithaca (Ithaca removed from Pool C with loss);
2) Alfred beats St. John Fisher (Ithaca removed from Pool C with Pool A win);
3) John Carroll beats Otterbein (Otterbein removed from Pool C with loss);
4) UW-Platteville beats UW-Whitewater (UW-Whtiewater removed from Pool C with loss);
5) UW-La Crosse beats UW-Stevens Point (UW-Whitewater removed from Pool C with Pool A win)*;
6) Randolph-Macon beats Hampden-Sydney (Hampden-Sydney removed from Pool C with loss);
7) Kean beats Montclair St. (Montclair St. removed from Pool C with loss); or
8) Bridgewater (Va.) beats Catholic (Hampden-Sydney removed from Pool C with Pool A win).

* - UW-Steven's Point COULD be considered with two losses for Pool C, although their selection would be unlikely.

Again, for safety, RPI needs to root for at least TWO of these scenarios.  If one occurs, there is a possibility for a subjective or objective analysis to knock it out of the Pool C debate when it finally reaches the board (i.e., after Ithaca and/or Montclair are picked to allow for RPI discussions).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 12, 2008, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:12:14 PM

Can I ask a question that may seem dumb? What do people think about the NCAA shifting teams to other regions? I understand the logic I guess. (As it was explained to me, it was to ensure that the 4 best teams make the semifinals, so if say, MUC is #1 and North Central is #2 they're not meeting in the regional finals) but it just seems wierd I guess, like if the NCAA moved Texas and Texas Tech to different parts of the Big 12 so they don't knock each other off before the national title game or something. I can understand wanting to reward the best teams I suppose. But at the same time, isn't that just one of those "them's the breaks" kind of things? You play in a tough conference or region, maybe you don't make it as far as a "weaker" team from a less strong conference or region.

I guess maybe this is sour grapes. I'm an IC fan, and when I see that they're ranked #2 in the East with a chance to be #1 if they beat Cortland, but then the logic seems to be that someone is then going to get moved from somewhere to join the East like last season. Obviously, if IC were to go 10-0, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems a bit odd that IC--or whoever was #2 last season to MUC--finishes with what the comittee feels is the best team in the East, but can't get a #1 seed and instead get some road matchup in the regional finals. Why not move a team in to be an #8 seed?

I really am curious to the thought process going on. Am I the only one who thinks this way?

Alot of the SJF guys said that last year when they were watching the selection show that they expected to be the #1 seed at 9-1.  They were then shocked to find out that the NCAA "moved" MUC to the East.  I bet that the NCAA was sick of having 10-0 east teams either slip up somewhere along the line in the playoffs or get pasted when they had to go to the SEMI's.  Meanwhile in other regions highly ranked teams are getting knocked off by higher ranked teams all because of their geographic location.

To me it makes sense to TRY to take the 4 best teams and give them #1 seeds, much like March Maddness.  I'd rather have a full sets of competitive brackets than a free ticket to the Semi's for the east. 

I would agree, with the exception of a Cortland situation.  If Cortland goes undefeated, playing the type schedule they do, there is no way IMO a team should be imported to be #1 above them.  Interesting, in that last year, Curry went undefeated, yet was supplanted as the #1.  The committee must have looked at Curry and felt there was no way they could leave them as #1.....I agree.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 12, 2008, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:12:14 PM

Can I ask a question that may seem dumb? What do people think about the NCAA shifting teams to other regions? I understand the logic I guess. (As it was explained to me, it was to ensure that the 4 best teams make the semifinals, so if say, MUC is #1 and North Central is #2 they're not meeting in the regional finals) but it just seems wierd I guess, like if the NCAA moved Texas and Texas Tech to different parts of the Big 12 so they don't knock each other off before the national title game or something. I can understand wanting to reward the best teams I suppose. But at the same time, isn't that just one of those "them's the breaks" kind of things? You play in a tough conference or region, maybe you don't make it as far as a "weaker" team from a less strong conference or region.

I guess maybe this is sour grapes. I'm an IC fan, and when I see that they're ranked #2 in the East with a chance to be #1 if they beat Cortland, but then the logic seems to be that someone is then going to get moved from somewhere to join the East like last season. Obviously, if IC were to go 10-0, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems a bit odd that IC--or whoever was #2 last season to MUC--finishes with what the comittee feels is the best team in the East, but can't get a #1 seed and instead get some road matchup in the regional finals. Why not move a team in to be an #8 seed?

I really am curious to the thought process going on. Am I the only one who thinks this way?

Alot of the SJF guys said that last year when they were watching the selection show that they expected to be the #1 seed at 9-1.  They were then shocked to find out that the NCAA "moved" MUC to the East.  I bet that the NCAA was sick of having 10-0 east teams either slip up somewhere along the line in the playoffs or get pasted when they had to go to the SEMI's.  Meanwhile in other regions highly ranked teams are getting knocked off by higher ranked teams all because of their geographic location.

To me it makes sense to TRY to take the 4 best teams and give them #1 seeds, much like March Maddness.  I'd rather have a full sets of competitive brackets than a free ticket to the Semi's for the east.

Re: What's in bold.
I'm completely the opposite. Give the east 8 teams. They are competitive brackets as is. MUC will beat everyone by 50, not just the East. And there are no free tickets to anything in any region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2008, 06:17:53 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 12, 2008, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2008, 03:12:14 PM

Can I ask a question that may seem dumb? What do people think about the NCAA shifting teams to other regions? I understand the logic I guess. (As it was explained to me, it was to ensure that the 4 best teams make the semifinals, so if say, MUC is #1 and North Central is #2 they're not meeting in the regional finals) but it just seems wierd I guess, like if the NCAA moved Texas and Texas Tech to different parts of the Big 12 so they don't knock each other off before the national title game or something. I can understand wanting to reward the best teams I suppose. But at the same time, isn't that just one of those "them's the breaks" kind of things? You play in a tough conference or region, maybe you don't make it as far as a "weaker" team from a less strong conference or region.

I guess maybe this is sour grapes. I'm an IC fan, and when I see that they're ranked #2 in the East with a chance to be #1 if they beat Cortland, but then the logic seems to be that someone is then going to get moved from somewhere to join the East like last season. Obviously, if IC were to go 10-0, this wouldn't have happened, but it seems a bit odd that IC--or whoever was #2 last season to MUC--finishes with what the comittee feels is the best team in the East, but can't get a #1 seed and instead get some road matchup in the regional finals. Why not move a team in to be an #8 seed?

I really am curious to the thought process going on. Am I the only one who thinks this way?

Alot of the SJF guys said that last year when they were watching the selection show that they expected to be the #1 seed at 9-1.  They were then shocked to find out that the NCAA "moved" MUC to the East.  I bet that the NCAA was sick of having 10-0 east teams either slip up somewhere along the line in the playoffs or get pasted when they had to go to the SEMI's.  Meanwhile in other regions highly ranked teams are getting knocked off by higher ranked teams all because of their geographic location.

To me it makes sense to TRY to take the 4 best teams and give them #1 seeds, much like March Maddness.  I'd rather have a full sets of competitive brackets than a free ticket to the Semi's for the east.

Re: What's in bold.
I'm completely the opposite. Give the east 8 teams. They are competitive brackets as is. MUC will beat everyone by 50, not just the East. And there are no free tickets to anything in any region.

Sorry gotta disagree, with the North/West/South having possible multiple undefeated teams in their regions and the East only having 1 it makes sense to move teams around to even out the strength of those brackets....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2008, 07:57:10 PM
I agree with Upstate.  The eastern region teams should not be  just handed a spot in the semifinals ...

(And I say this as a fan of a team who got its chance to go to the nation semis halted due to an out of region team)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 12, 2008, 08:00:02 PM
I kind of agree with dewcrew only in the sense that the NCAA makes the east take an NEFC team as a pool A bid, they should at least make the bracket "east" if they can.

Its only unfair if like a 9-1 WIAC or OAC team has to miss out on a pool C bid because of it. (if that ever happened)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: stimulator on November 12, 2008, 08:28:15 PM
Frank as usual stellar work..

thought it might be interesting .... not necessarily a "criteria" but something that is worth considering.  I certainly as a member of the selection committee care about OWP and OOWP but it seems to me that some consideration should be given to how close you actually came to winning your own conference i.e. did you come close or were you never in the game to grab that AQ.

Following are number of points the Pool C candidates in your analysis lost to the eventual conference champ and Pool A qualifier.  Assuming some of the scenarios for next weeks games hold true.  Your selections in bold

UWW 1
Hardin Simmons 2
Montclair 6
Hampden-Sydney 12
Otterbien 29
Ithaca 31

RPI 3
Wash & Jeff 6
Redlands 13
Wooster 21

Certainly their has to be some subjectivity in looking at some of the results.  How strong was that AQ team etc.  But losing to the eventual champ by double digits, 20 or even 30 has to be considered.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 12, 2008, 08:39:46 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...




No, they didn't go out of their way to do it. It just happened that way. If the NCAA is going to move a team, why not switch a team that would be a lower seed? Seems more fair. Of course, we wouldn't be having this discussion if we weren't afraid that MUC will steamroll the East. If they were normal (you MUC guys who read this know I mean this in the nicest possible way :)  )  this wouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 12, 2008, 09:20:52 PM
I've been reading all this playoff stuff and it makes me crazy. It's like trying to understand our government. :o I've listened to the Pod Cast and tried to do my due diligence. Some of you guys are amazing with your ability to understand this process. In any event I am a Montclair homer, so here goes. Montclair, Cortland, Fisher, RPI, Hobart, Albright and Plymouth win. The Cortland Bracket looks as follow :

1. Cortland
2. Muhlenberg
3. Montclair "C"
4. Hobart
5. Albright
6. Fisher
7. Ithaca "C"
8.Plymouth

A Cortland - Montclair East Final with Montclair going to the final 4. I told  everyone I was a homer. ;) Let's see how this all plays out.

The season so far has been a lot of fun and thanks to D3football.com.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2008, 09:30:13 PM
Quote from: stimulator on November 12, 2008, 08:28:15 PM
Frank as usual stellar work..

thought it might be interesting .... not necessarily a "criteria" but something that is worth considering.  I certainly as a member of the selection committee care about OWP and OOWP but it seems to me that some consideration should be given to how close you actually came to winning your own conference i.e. did you come close or were you never in the game to grab that AQ.

Following are number of points the Pool C candidates in your analysis lost to the eventual conference champ and Pool A qualifier.  Assuming some of the scenarios for next weeks games hold true.  Your selections in bold

UWW 1
Hardin Simmons 2
Montclair 6
Hampden-Sydney 12
Otterbien 29
Ithaca 31

RPI 3
Wash & Jeff 6
Redlands 13
Wooster 21

Certainly their has to be some subjectivity in looking at some of the results.  How strong was that AQ team etc.  But losing to the eventual champ by double digits, 20 or even 30 has to be considered.

Here's the big issue, Stim, that I think you need to factor in before scores become an issue (and from my discussion with Mr. Kaiser, scores COULD become an issue in some cases).  The bigger issue is "Quality Wins" for these teams.  Let's look at the present Top 6 Pool C contenders:

UWW -- Wins vs. other UW schools are considered pretty big as the Wisc. Conference has been acclaimed for years.

Hardin-Simmons - Win vs. Linfield and a lower level UW school are probably a decent resume builder

Montclair - Wins vs. Rowan, New Jersey and potentially Kean are seen as strong

Hampden-Sydney - Win at Huntingdon last week is an important win against a then-undefeated team that deep into the season

Otterbien - Wins vs. Capital and potentially John Carroll are seen as strong since they are Pool C contenders normally underneath MUC

Ithaca - Wins vs. Lycoming, Alfred, Hartwick and potentially Cortland are all very big resume boosters.

Once we break from these six, I cannot identify a game played by any of the Pool C contenders that becomes a "breakout performance" in order to separate teams from the pack.  This is where I think score comparisons might play a roll and could benefit RPI to a degree.  

Some people feel Wooster should go before RPI because of the OWP difference.  I'm making a big argument in the other direction -- you need to look at the OWP of the TEAMS THAT WERE BEATEN for RPI and Wooster in order to gain some true ideas about their strength.  The fact that Wooster did not come within less than 20 of either loss to an undefeated team should make those games count to some degree -- and should deflate their OWP.  Once you deflate Wooster's OWP, their OOWP is below RPI's and no quality wins really exist for either.  At that point, you need to look at scores and not ignore the fact that Wooster has two losses.  

That's in part why I feel that RPI is the 7th team in Pool C right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 12, 2008, 10:28:32 PM
frank -

stellar work on the playoff scenarios.

check out the Daily Dose - a Case fan is mentioning ITH!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: stimulator on November 12, 2008, 10:36:49 PM
As I said on the LLPP if RPI does not make it, another deserving team will get in.. no arguments.  When you get to picking the last 6 someone will get left out that is deserving.. no make that a number of teams. So it is what it is.

But here's my thinking:  If the NCAA awards an AQ bid to a conference and it's eventual champion, the second place team in that conference, especially if they lost their only game to the conference champ is worthy of strong consideration.  That's what the Pool C (with the inclusion of the Independents not earning a Pool B) is for.

Seems to me the way you lost to that CC is important.  Lose by a few you are looked at more favorably.. by 20 maybe not as much.  Not scientific I know.  i.e. Otterbein loses to MUC by 20+ well let's take a look at the quality of the CC ... so they get a bit of a pass.  The Wisconsin teams same thing.  Bridgewater loses to PS not as much consideration (if that was their only loss).

However Ithaca loses by 31 to the CC in the E8 (and a team with 3 losses and an additional conference loss.. I know they were quality OOC opponents) ...well to me that means something.   

No secret I am an RPI supporter and I do wish they had a quality win to speak of.  But they handled the games on the schedule (although Utica was ugly even with a 14 point win) and their loss was a 38 yarder as the game clock expired. 

I know the formulas and calculations will be cranking come selection time. If Ithaca  gets in with a win over Cortland maybe I can live with it.  Late season win quality opponent.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 12, 2008, 10:39:14 PM
Quote from: stimulator on November 12, 2008, 10:36:49 PM
As I said on the LLPP if RPI does not make it, another deserving team will get in.. no arguments.  When you get to picking the last 6 someone will get left out that is deserving.. no make that a number of teams. So it is what it is.

But here’s my thinking:  If the NCAA awards an AQ bid to a conference and it’s eventual champion, the second place team in that conference, especially if they lost their only game to the conference champ is worthy of strong consideration.  That’s what the Pool C (with the inclusion of the Independents not earning a Pool B) is for.

Seems to me the way you lost to that CC is important.  Lose by a few you are looked at more favorably.. by 20 maybe not as much.  Not scientific I know.  i.e. Otterbein loses to MUC by 20+ well let’s take a look at the quality of the CC … so they get a bit of a pass.  The Wisconsin teams same thing.  Bridgewater loses to PS not as much consideration (if that was their only loss).

However Ithaca loses by 31 to the CC in the E8 (and a team with 3 losses and an additional conference loss.. I know they were quality OOC opponents) …well to me that means something.   

No secret I am an RPI supporter and I do wish they had a quality win to speak of.  But they handled the games on the schedule (although Utica was ugly even with a 14 point win) and their loss was a 38 yarder as the game clock expired. 

I know the formulas and calculations will be cranking come selection time. If Ithaca  gets in with a win over Cortland maybe I can live with it.  Late season win quality opponent.


Even if TGP is voted the "Frank Rossi of Hobart", TGP has little or no understanding of how these play-offs work other than the Pool A.

TGP actually thought RPI had a great shot being that they only dropped to #5 in the NCAA East Region rankings.

TGP guesses we'll have to see how it pans out this weekend.......?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 12, 2008, 10:45:09 PM
I know its two different years but if Ithaca got a pool C last year with two losses, there is a 100% chance they will get it this year with one loss.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 12, 2008, 11:08:27 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 12, 2008, 09:20:52 PM
I've been reading all this playoff stuff and it makes me crazy. It's like trying to understand our government. :o I've listened to the Pod Cast and tried to do my due diligence. Some of you guys are amazing with your ability to understand this process. In any event I am a Montclair homer, so here goes. Montclair, Cortland, Fisher, RPI, Hobart, Albright and Plymouth win. The Cortland Bracket looks as follow :

1. Cortland
2. Muhlenberg
3. Montclair "C"
4. Hobart
5. Albright
6. Fisher
7. Ithaca "C"
8.Plymouth

A Cortland - Montclair East Final with Montclair going to the final 4. I told  everyone I was a homer. ;) Let's see how this all plays out.

The season so far has been a lot of fun and thanks to D3football.com.


If Muhlenberg is 10-0, I don't see them moving to the East as a no. 2 seed.  I mean, they could stay in the South and be a no. 2 seed.  I think Wesley is a likelier candidate to move in to the East Region as a no. 6 or 7 or so.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2008, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: stimulator on November 12, 2008, 10:36:49 PM
As I said on the LLPP if RPI does not make it, another deserving team will get in.. no arguments.  When you get to picking the last 6 someone will get left out that is deserving.. no make that a number of teams. So it is what it is.

But here's my thinking:  If the NCAA awards an AQ bid to a conference and it's eventual champion, the second place team in that conference, especially if they lost their only game to the conference champ is worthy of strong consideration.  That's what the Pool C (with the inclusion of the Independents not earning a Pool B) is for.

Seems to me the way you lost to that CC is important.  Lose by a few you are looked at more favorably.. by 20 maybe not as much.  Not scientific I know.  i.e. Otterbein loses to MUC by 20+ well let's take a look at the quality of the CC ... so they get a bit of a pass.  The Wisconsin teams same thing.  Bridgewater loses to PS not as much consideration (if that was their only loss).

However Ithaca loses by 31 to the CC in the E8 (and a team with 3 losses and an additional conference loss.. I know they were quality OOC opponents) ...well to me that means something.   

No secret I am an RPI supporter and I do wish they had a quality win to speak of.  But they handled the games on the schedule (although Utica was ugly even with a 14 point win) and their loss was a 38 yarder as the game clock expired. 

I know the formulas and calculations will be cranking come selection time. If Ithaca  gets in with a win over Cortland maybe I can live with it.  Late season win quality opponent.


Let me state this, though, Stim:

If Utica on your schedule was instead Hartwick... or if Endicott on your schedule was instead Plymouth St. or Curry... We wouldn't be having nearly as much argument to try to convince people that RPI should be in as a Pool C.  Either they might be ahead of Monclair at this point (which would be important to avoid the "freeze out" that's happening right now to RPI) or they would be assured the final Pool C slot with only one of the eight scenarios I posed happening.  A subtle change in scheduling could go a long way down the road to help RPI build up a much better insurance policy.  Right now, Wooster fans think a two-loss Wooster has a shot over a one-loss RPI team.  I'm trying to beat them back, but such an argument shouldn't even be capable of happening.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 12, 2008, 11:47:24 PM
East Regional Rankings, Nov. 5:

1. Cortland St    8-0 8-0
2. RPI               7-0 7-0
3. Ithaca          6-1 7-1
4. Montclair St   7-1 7-1
5. Rowan          7-1 7-1
6. Hartwick       6-1 6-1
7. Hobart          6-1 6-1
8. Plymouth St   7-1 8-1
9. Husson         6-0 6-2
10. Curry          7-1 8-1

East Regional Rankings, Nov. 12:

1. Cortland St    9-0 9-0
2. Ithaca          7-1 8-1
3. Montclair St   8-1 8-1
4. Hobart          7-1 7-1
5. RPI               7-1 7-1
6. Hartwick        6-2 6-2
7. Plymouth St    8-1 9-1
8. Rowan           7-2 7-2
9. Curry             8-1 9-1
10. Albright        6-2 7-2
11. Husson        7-0 7-2

I don't understand how Husson won, and yet was passed by Curry and two-loss Albright.  My inner cynic figures that the NCAA committee was using the incorrect 6-1 in-Region record for Albright that they included in their announcement of the rankings.

RPI lost to a ranked team, and they dropped 3 spots.  Rowan lost  a ranked team, and Rowan dropped 3 spots.  Hartwick lost to 3-6 Springfield, but 'Wick stays put at no. 6?  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: stimulator on November 13, 2008, 01:47:49 PM
Frank:

No argument here..  the SOS argument has some real teeth as to RPI's dilemma. 

This is where I agree with the premise of playing one of the OOC games against a tougher opponent.  I don't agree as much with the "battle tested" argument.  I don't think playing MUC has had any real benefit to SJF this year.  In fact you could argue there are some real negatives to playing the iron early in the season.

But you are right the argument might be more in RPI's favor with a more substantial win than Endicott or to a lesser degree Utica. 

I think RPI had some hopes that they would be playing that upper level NEFC team (ala Curry/ PS) when they continued to schedule Endicott.  I know some folks there as well as some Sr. players.  They had much higher expectations 3-4 years ago that the program would be battling for a NEFC championship game as the program progressed.. certainly that has not happened.  Not sure why.  They have a great campus.. decent facilities and a nice recruiting area to work with.  They do lose some good local kids to the EMass D2 schools but they should be better.

I hope the advent of the new stadium may bring a scheduling shift to one of these early games. Perhaps a mid tier NJAC or MAC team.  Even a Springfield would be nice.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 13, 2008, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: stimulator on November 13, 2008, 01:47:49 PM
Frank:

No argument here..  the SOS argument has some real teeth as to RPI's dilemma. 

This is where I agree with the premise of playing one of the OOC games against a tougher opponent.  I don't agree as much with the "battle tested" argument.  I don't think playing MUC has had any real benefit to SJF this year.  In fact you could argue there are some real negatives to playing the iron early in the season.

But you are right the argument might be more in RPI's favor with a more substantial win than Endicott or to a lesser degree Utica. 

I think RPI had some hopes that they would be playing that upper level NEFC team (ala Curry/ PS) when they continued to schedule Endicott.  I know some folks there as well as some Sr. players.  They had much higher expectations 3-4 years ago that the program would be battling for a NEFC championship game as the program progressed.. certainly that has not happened.  Not sure why.  They have a great campus.. decent facilities and a nice recruiting area to work with.  They do lose some good local kids to the EMass D2 schools but they should be better.

I hope the advent of the new stadium may bring a scheduling shift to one of these early games. Perhaps a mid tier NJAC or MAC team.  Even a Springfield would be nice.



As Reno has stated previously, Springfield is a nightmare to add to your schedule.  The prep to play that offense sets your defense back considerably.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 13, 2008, 04:13:34 PM
Quote from: stimulator on November 13, 2008, 01:47:49 PM

  I don't agree as much with the "battle tested" argument.  I don't think playing MUC has had any real benefit to SJF this year. 

I dont know...the game was certainly long ago and far away and they did get smoked, but now because of 'Wick's recent loss and SJF's new life, I think that game can be reflected upon as a psychological tool....a way to reflect that the season has come a long way form playing the Machine that is MUC in the summer, September, to now in November, last game, playing AU for a bid.  The coaches and players have likely been focusing on that theme for the past week and during the bye week.  Arguably, SJF has played 5 play-off caliber teams this year, spread out through the season, so this is just the 'book-end' play-off game that started with MUC. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 13, 2008, 05:04:07 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 12, 2008, 09:20:52 PM
I've been reading all this playoff stuff and it makes me crazy. It's like trying to understand our government. :o I've listened to the Pod Cast and tried to do my due diligence. Some of you guys are amazing with your ability to understand this process. In any event I am a Montclair homer, so here goes. Montclair, Cortland, Fisher, RPI, Hobart, Albright and Plymouth win. The Cortland Bracket looks as follow :

1. Cortland
2. Muhlenberg
3. Montclair "C"
4. Hobart
5. Albright
6. Fisher
7. Ithaca "C"
8.Plymouth

A Cortland - Montclair East Final with Montclair going to the final 4. I told  everyone I was a homer. ;) Let's see how this all plays out.

The season so far has been a lot of fun and thanks to D3football.com.


Fisher v. Ithaca would make for a very interesting 2nd round game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 13, 2008, 07:10:50 PM
East Bracket
1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca (C)
3. Montclair State (C)
4. Hobart
5. Plymouth State
6. Albright
7. Hampden-Sydney (C)
8. St. John Fisher
Clearly, the season doesn't end today, but there are so many moving parts in this region that it seemed better just to take a snapshot. If St. John Fisher loses to Alfred ... If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC ... If the Cortaca Jug game doesn't end in an improbable tie ... then this would change. But right now we need a team to fill out this bracket and after plugging a few teams in (tried Case Western Reserve, tried Wesley) we ended up with Hampden-Sydney. The South makes it necessary.


East Region Projection from the D3 guys....

If SJF gets in, BIG IF, I can say that I don;t mind traveling to Cortland for the first round...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 13, 2008, 08:48:18 PM
tgp would happily take a bart-psu first round draw. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 13, 2008, 08:57:34 PM
I was wondering what the east would look like if Hobart loses, Ithaca loses, SJF wins, and Montclair loses.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2008, 09:05:57 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 13, 2008, 08:57:34 PM
I was wondering what the east would look like if Hobart loses, Ithaca loses, SJF wins, and Montclair loses.....
I think that we might send two or three teams east. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
Early prediction, I see SJF AND Ithaca losing by more than 10.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2008, 10:11:31 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
Early prediction, I see SJF AND Ithaca losing by more than 10.

JU is biting his toungue and will predict tomorow morning....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 14, 2008, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
Early prediction, I see SJF AND Ithaca losing by more than 10.

Ithaca doesn't lose blowouts to Cortland. That's reserved for when they play Fisher. Ithaca blows Cortland out, Cortland nips Ithaca. C'mon, know your Cortaca history, LD.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2008, 10:41:10 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 14, 2008, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
Early prediction, I see SJF AND Ithaca losing by more than 10.

Ithaca doesn't lose blowouts to Cortland. That's reserved for when they play Fisher. Ithaca blows Cortland out, Cortland nips Ithaca. C'mon, know your Cortaca history, LD.

I wouldn't call losing by 10-14 getting blown out.  And it's not a shot at ithaca at all.  I just think Cortland might bring the noise.  SJF on the other hand....I think Alfred is better than them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 14, 2008, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
Early prediction, I see SJF AND Ithaca losing by more than 10.

That's an entertaining prediction.  Ithaca would be the E8 Pool A.

Still, as a precautionary measure, call in the backups to the suicide hotlines.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 14, 2008, 11:04:29 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2008, 10:41:10 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 14, 2008, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2008, 08:52:54 AM
Early prediction, I see SJF AND Ithaca losing by more than 10.

Ithaca doesn't lose blowouts to Cortland. That's reserved for when they play Fisher. Ithaca blows Cortland out, Cortland nips Ithaca. C'mon, know your Cortaca history, LD.

I wouldn't call losing by 10-14 getting blown out.  And it's not a shot at ithaca at all.  I just think Cortland might bring the noise.  SJF on the other hand....I think Alfred is better than them.

I think LD is vying for honorary membership in the pep band like the one given out to AU HOFer, Mark O'Meara, during Homecoming this year...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 14, 2008, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 13, 2008, 07:10:50 PM
East Bracket
1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca (C)
3. Montclair State (C)
4. Hobart
5. Plymouth State
6. Albright
7. Hampden-Sydney (C)
8. St. John Fisher
Clearly, the season doesn't end today, but there are so many moving parts in this region that it seemed better just to take a snapshot. If St. John Fisher loses to Alfred ... If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC ... If the Cortaca Jug game doesn't end in an improbable tie ... then this would change. But right now we need a team to fill out this bracket and after plugging a few teams in (tried Case Western Reserve, tried Wesley) we ended up with Hampden-Sydney. The South makes it necessary.


East Region Projection from the D3 guys....

If SJF gets in, BIG IF, I can say that I don;t mind traveling to Cortland for the first round...



this makes no sense. If Ithaca loses to Cortland, this still has them the 2nd seed w/ 2 losses? No way
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2008, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 14, 2008, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 13, 2008, 07:10:50 PM
East Bracket
1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca (C)
3. Montclair State (C)
4. Hobart
5. Plymouth State
6. Albright
7. Hampden-Sydney (C)
8. St. John Fisher
Clearly, the season doesn't end today, but there are so many moving parts in this region that it seemed better just to take a snapshot. If St. John Fisher loses to Alfred ... If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC ... If the Cortaca Jug game doesn't end in an improbable tie ... then this would change. But right now we need a team to fill out this bracket and after plugging a few teams in (tried Case Western Reserve, tried Wesley) we ended up with Hampden-Sydney. The South makes it necessary.


East Region Projection from the D3 guys....

If SJF gets in, BIG IF, I can say that I don;t mind traveling to Cortland for the first round...



this makes no sense. If Ithaca loses to Cortland, this still has them the 2nd seed w/ 2 losses? No way
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 14, 2008, 11:31:06 AM
lew go to the E8pp and reed E8's assessment of the game... it is one of the better football pots I have ever read
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 14, 2008, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 14, 2008, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 13, 2008, 07:10:50 PM
East Bracket
1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca (C)
3. Montclair State (C)
4. Hobart
5. Plymouth State
6. Albright
7. Hampden-Sydney (C)
8. St. John Fisher
Clearly, the season doesn't end today, but there are so many moving parts in this region that it seemed better just to take a snapshot. If St. John Fisher loses to Alfred ... If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC ... If the Cortaca Jug game doesn't end in an improbable tie ... then this would change. But right now we need a team to fill out this bracket and after plugging a few teams in (tried Case Western Reserve, tried Wesley) we ended up with Hampden-Sydney. The South makes it necessary.


East Region Projection from the D3 guys....

If SJF gets in, BIG IF, I can say that I don;t mind traveling to Cortland for the first round...



this makes no sense. If Ithaca loses to Cortland, this still has them the 2nd seed w/ 2 losses? No way

Dont shoot the messenger...

Its clear that there are so many scenarios that they just did a "if the playoffs started today" type of deal...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 14, 2008, 11:32:32 AM
Quote from: superman57 on November 14, 2008, 11:31:06 AM
lew go to the E8pp and reed E8's assessment of the game... it is one of the better football pots I have ever read

I agree, one of the best pots ive ever read on here....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on November 14, 2008, 11:33:35 AM
sorry I'm trying to work and read the boards at the same time
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2008, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 14, 2008, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 14, 2008, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 13, 2008, 07:10:50 PM
East Bracket
1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca (C)
3. Montclair State (C)
4. Hobart
5. Plymouth State
6. Albright
7. Hampden-Sydney (C)
8. St. John Fisher
Clearly, the season doesn't end today, but there are so many moving parts in this region that it seemed better just to take a snapshot. If St. John Fisher loses to Alfred ... If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC ... If the Cortaca Jug game doesn't end in an improbable tie ... then this would change. But right now we need a team to fill out this bracket and after plugging a few teams in (tried Case Western Reserve, tried Wesley) we ended up with Hampden-Sydney. The South makes it necessary.


East Region Projection from the D3 guys....

If SJF gets in, BIG IF, I can say that I don;t mind traveling to Cortland for the first round...



this makes no sense. If Ithaca loses to Cortland, this still has them the 2nd seed w/ 2 losses? No way

Dont shoot the messenger...

Its clear that there are so many scenarios that they just did a "if the playoffs started today" type of deal...

Yea that list doesnt make sense to me either for the IC/Cortland ranking...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 14, 2008, 12:00:00 PM
Playoff Predictions - 60% of the time, they work every time.


EDIT, 12 noon on the dot... time for that bologna sammich and juicebox
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: vttanker on November 14, 2008, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...

I would tend to disagree with this statement only because it doesn't speak to the question about parity.  A team in any conference might have a loss because all the teams are more equivalent in capability.  And if more teams in one region are going undeated then there are other teams in that same region that are losing more games.  I'd much rather see conferences and regions where the title is up for grab each year.

Separately I think it's a mistake for the NCAA to try to engineer the final four teams.  When they move teams from one region to another that is all they're trying to do.  Win your conference, get the AQ and stay in your region.  The Pool B and C teams should also only come from the region they belong to.

Imagine this scenario which we see happen.  A team moves from North to East, wins the East.  So we wonder, who is the best team in the East.  That just ain't right.

Anytime a sport tries to engineer a championship it's a disaster.  Division I Football BCS for example.  What a nightmare that is.  NASCAR Race for the Cup - there's a fan favorite.  How would you like to be Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, and Nashville and be in the same division with the Detroit Redwings?  You don't make the playoffs and you don't get extra credit for playing the best team in the league.  Finishing second to the Redwings out to be worth something (BTW I'm a Pittsburgh Penguin fan, and yes the better team won last year).

Engineered playoffs are just wrong.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 01:07:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2008, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 14, 2008, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 14, 2008, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 13, 2008, 07:10:50 PM
East Bracket
1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca (C)
3. Montclair State (C)
4. Hobart
5. Plymouth State
6. Albright
7. Hampden-Sydney (C)
8. St. John Fisher
Clearly, the season doesn't end today, but there are so many moving parts in this region that it seemed better just to take a snapshot. If St. John Fisher loses to Alfred ... If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC ... If the Cortaca Jug game doesn't end in an improbable tie ... then this would change. But right now we need a team to fill out this bracket and after plugging a few teams in (tried Case Western Reserve, tried Wesley) we ended up with Hampden-Sydney. The South makes it necessary.


East Region Projection from the D3 guys....

If SJF gets in, BIG IF, I can say that I don;t mind traveling to Cortland for the first round...



this makes no sense. If Ithaca loses to Cortland, this still has them the 2nd seed w/ 2 losses? No way

Dont shoot the messenger...

Its clear that there are so many scenarios that they just did a "if the playoffs started today" type of deal...

Yea that list doesnt make sense to me either for the IC/Cortland ranking...

Ok, see, they have Fisher at 8, which clearly means that they're beating Alfred in this scenario, which makes IC a Pool C team even if they were to beat Cortland--which also would appear to be the case. It would seem that the East guys think Cortland would still be considered the best team in the region despite a loss
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 14, 2008, 01:25:26 PM
I think IC's #2 seeding has less to do with whether or not they have 2 losses, but the NCAA avoiding an early rematch of Cortaca.

Assuming the bracket falls into place like they predicted you'd have the following match ups:

Round 1:
1.  Cortland
8.  SJF

4.  Hobart
5.  PSU

3.  Montclair
6.  Albright

7.  H-S
2.  Ithaca

An IC-Cortland rematch (as is a Montclair-Cortland rematch) only happens if IC (or MSU) advances to the Regional Final (and assuming that Cortland does as well).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 01:47:56 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 14, 2008, 01:25:26 PM
I think IC's #2 seeding has less to do with whether or not they have 2 losses, but the NCAA avoiding an early rematch of Cortaca.

Assuming the bracket falls into place like they predicted you'd have the following match ups:

Round 1:
1.  Cortland
8.  SJF

4.  Hobart
5.  PSU

3.  Montclair
6.  Albright

7.  H-S
2.  Ithaca

An IC-Cortland rematch (as is a Montclair-Cortland rematch) only happens if IC (or MSU) advances to the Regional Final (and assuming that Cortland does as well).

What? Ithaca wouldn't even make the playoffs with two losses as a Pool C team. The only way they can be #2 is if they beat Cortland State. And if IC does beat Cortland, I'd have a hard time leaving Cortland the higher seed just to avoid a matchup in the 2nd round
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 14, 2008, 02:58:05 PM
you could be right, but a loss - unless it's in a total blow out - to Cortland #1 in region, #7 in nation, shouldn't negatively affect IC #2 in region, #17 in nation too much.

i could still see IC getting in as a pool c with 2 losses to 2 pool A teams given their strong OWP/OOWP and other factors (ie, IC got in with 2 losses last season, etc)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 14, 2008, 02:58:05 PM
you could be right, but a loss - unless it's in a total blow out - to Cortland #1 in region, #7 in nation, shouldn't negatively affect IC #2 in region, #17 in nation too much.

i could still see IC getting in as a pool c with 2 losses to 2 pool A teams given their strong OWP/OOWP and other factors (ie, IC got in with 2 losses last season, etc)

I applaud the enthusiasm, but there are 9 other teams with one loss in D-III right now. You'd need at least four of those teams to lose for Ithaca to make it. I've read nothing at all on this site from anyone that suggests a 2-loss team is even in the playoffs, let alone hosting two games
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 14, 2008, 03:12:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 14, 2008, 02:58:05 PM
you could be right, but a loss - unless it's in a total blow out - to Cortland #1 in region, #7 in nation, shouldn't negatively affect IC #2 in region, #17 in nation too much.

i could still see IC getting in as a pool c with 2 losses to 2 pool A teams given their strong OWP/OOWP and other factors (ie, IC got in with 2 losses last season, etc)

I applaud the enthusiasm, but there are 9 other teams with one loss in D-III right now. You'd need at least four of those teams to lose for Ithaca to make it. I've read nothing at all on this site from anyone that suggests a 2-loss team is even in the playoffs, let alone hosting two games

Exactly, a 2 loss team is not getting a pool C this year...

Its win and in or lose and pray for IC...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 14, 2008, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...

I would tend to disagree with this statement only because it doesn't speak to the question about parity.  A team in any conference might have a loss because all the teams are more equivalent in capability.  And if more teams in one region are going undeated then there are other teams in that same region that are losing more games.  I'd much rather see conferences and regions where the title is up for grab each year.

Separately I think it's a mistake for the NCAA to try to engineer the final four teams.  When they move teams from one region to another that is all they're trying to do.  Win your conference, get the AQ and stay in your region.  The Pool B and C teams should also only come from the region they belong to.

Imagine this scenario which we see happen.  A team moves from North to East, wins the East.  So we wonder, who is the best team in the East.  That just ain't right.

Anytime a sport tries to engineer a championship it's a disaster.  Division I Football BCS for example.  What a nightmare that is.  NASCAR Race for the Cup - there's a fan favorite.  How would you like to be Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, and Nashville and be in the same division with the Detroit Redwings?  You don't make the playoffs and you don't get extra credit for playing the best team in the league.  Finishing second to the Redwings out to be worth something (BTW I'm a Pittsburgh Penguin fan, and yes the better team won last year).

Engineered playoffs are just wrong.
Good thoughts, but I respectfully disagree.   :)

Pool C bids are engineered for the playoffs.  The NCAA has determined that they will pay for one playoff bid for every 6.5 participants (in most sports.  The playoff ratio is slightly higher in other sports.)

Almost every fan on this site thinks that the expansion from 3 Pool C bids to 6 Pool C bids in 2005 was a big improvement.  Why do we have Pool C bids?  IMHO, to improve the playoffs.

In 2002, John Carroll (OAC) won the East as the #7 seed!  Parity?  That suggests that the East has parity, but wouldn't ever make the playoffs in the North  Region!  2002 Bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm)

IN 2004 Pool C Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC) made it to the Stagg Bowl back when there were only 3 Pool C bids.  D3football.com's (Week #11 Poll) #8 UMHB went on the road and beat   #7 Trinity by 29, #3 HSU by 14, #5 W&J by 36 and #1 Mount Union by 3 in Alliance.  They lost to Elliott's #2 Linfield in the Stagg, 21-28.

(Please remember that D3football.com Top 25 is an opinion of 25 knowledgeable SID's Coaches and Media of the best teams in the country.  The NCAA Selection process is the association's process to determine all playoff contenders.)

Let's get the best teams in the country as far apart as we can for as long as we can in the playoffs.  Moving a really top seed to a demonstrably weaker region is fine with me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:12:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 14, 2008, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...

I would tend to disagree with this statement only because it doesn't speak to the question about parity.  A team in any conference might have a loss because all the teams are more equivalent in capability.  And if more teams in one region are going undeated then there are other teams in that same region that are losing more games.  I'd much rather see conferences and regions where the title is up for grab each year.

Separately I think it's a mistake for the NCAA to try to engineer the final four teams.  When they move teams from one region to another that is all they're trying to do.  Win your conference, get the AQ and stay in your region.  The Pool B and C teams should also only come from the region they belong to.

Imagine this scenario which we see happen.  A team moves from North to East, wins the East.  So we wonder, who is the best team in the East.  That just ain't right.

Anytime a sport tries to engineer a championship it's a disaster.  Division I Football BCS for example.  What a nightmare that is.  NASCAR Race for the Cup - there's a fan favorite.  How would you like to be Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, and Nashville and be in the same division with the Detroit Redwings?  You don't make the playoffs and you don't get extra credit for playing the best team in the league.  Finishing second to the Redwings out to be worth something (BTW I'm a Pittsburgh Penguin fan, and yes the better team won last year).

Engineered playoffs are just wrong.
Good thoughts, but I respectfully disagree.   :)

Pool C bids are engineered for the playoffs.  The NCAA has determined that they will pay for one playoff bid for every 6.5 participants (in most sports.  The playoff ratio is slightly higher in other sports.)

Almost every fan on this site thinks that the expansion from 3 Pool C bids to 6 Pool C bids in 2005 was a big improvement.  Why do we have Pool C bids?  IMHO, to improve the playoffs.

In 2002, John Carroll (OAC) won the East as the #7 seed!  Parity?  That suggests that the East has parity, but wouldn't ever make the playoffs in the North  Region!  2002 Bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm)

IN 2004 Pool C Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC) made it to the Stagg Bowl back when there were only 3 Pool C bids.  D3football.com's (Week #11 Poll) #8 UMHB went on the road and beat   #7 Trinity by 29, #3 HSU by 14, #5 W&J by 36 and #1 Mount Union by 3 in Alliance.  They lost to Elliott's #2 Linfield in the Stagg, 21-28.

(Please remember that D3football.com is an opinion of 25 knowledgeable SID's Coaches and Media of the best teams in the country.  The NCAA Selection process is the asscoiation's process to determine all playoff contenders.)

Let's get the best teams in the country as far apart as we can for as long as we can in the playoffs.  Moving a really top seed to a demonstrably weaker region is fine with me.


But most sports just consider this a necessary by-product. Is the Big-12 going to move Texas/Texas Tech/Oklahoma into the North division so they can play for the Big-12 title? They're clearly all better than Missouri. In 2006 the NFL had 4 teams in the AFC with 12+ wins. The NFC had 1. Did we move Baltimore to the NFC so they wouldn't lose in the first round because the AFC was so much tougher? In 2007, 5 of the top 7 teams in the NHL were from the West. Why not shift one to the East so they can make it farther?

Teams in D-III have to play such regional schedules, and recruiting is so regional, it's not like most other sports where you have national reach. Why not leave the East to the East? Yes, it's unfortunate for good teams in the North who could probably pound a lot of East teams and get stuck losing to MUC in the regionals, but how is that the East's fault? Sure, if the East wasn't so atrocious, they wouldn't have to worry about having teams moved over, but what's the ultimate goal here? So some team can lose to MUC or Whitewater in the national semis instead of the national quarters?

The last 15 National Title games have had either Rowan or MUC in 13 of them. D-III football is top-heavy enough. We've had the same NC game three years in a row. Why do we need to go out of our way to ensure we get more of the same? If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'm cool with it. But engineering the "best" matchups has, in my opinion, a bad side effect. It manufactures the same matchups. I honestly wish there was some more parity in D-III football. It'd be nice to see some different teams get some national exposure beyond the MUC's of the world...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2008, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2008, 11:14:59 PM
If Utica on your schedule was instead Hartwick... or if Endicott on your schedule was instead Plymouth St. or Curry... We wouldn't be having nearly as much argument to try to convince people that RPI should be in as a Pool C.  Either they might be ahead of Monclair at this point (which would be important to avoid the "freeze out" that's happening right now to RPI) or they would be assured the final Pool C slot with only one of the eight scenarios I posed happening.  A subtle change in scheduling could go a long way down the road to help RPI build up a much better insurance policy.  Right now, Wooster fans think a two-loss Wooster has a shot over a one-loss RPI team.  I'm trying to beat them back, but such an argument shouldn't even be capable of happening.


Not sure if anyone in the East cares, but here's my two cents.

I'm beyond shocked that there are people out there who honestly believe Wooster should be in the field with 2 losses.  Are you kinding me?  Wooster?  They'd be one of my last ranked 9-1 teams, let alone 8-2.   I'd take an 8-2 Ithaca before I'd take a 9-1 Wooster.  Outside of Wabash, their conference is horrible. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 14, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
USee posted this in the General Football's Potential Playoff Selection/Seeds:

Found an article in a local Ohio paper interviewing Dick Kaiser, Head of the D3 playoff selection committee. Here is the link:

http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/4466158

He says some interesting things that give insight into the committee's thinking.

On the top 4 seeds:

"I think we're going to try again to seed the top four teams," said Kaiser, who served as the defensive coordinator at Idaho State in 1981 when it won the Division I-AA national championship and before that coached outside linebackers at BYU. "Then take the teams and fill up the brackets so it won't be like North, East, South and West. It'll be like Team A's bracket, Team B's bracket and so on and so forth. That's how last year, everybody was all upset that all of sudden Mount Union was playing all of these East teams. Alliance is close (to the East coast) and can play all those East teams."

On the criteria for selection:


"The very first thing we always look at is there any head-to-head meetings," said Kaiser, a Boulder, Colo. native. "Head-to-head is one of the primary criteria we always look at in ranking teams and putting teams into the field. If they didn't play each other, then you have to go to the numbers about their opponents, their in-region record, their opponents in-region record, their opponents, opponents in-region record. Then you also look at the secondary criteria, their opponents in-division record and their opponents, opponents in-division record. Those are four numbers that we have to take into play."
Using a common opponent that teams played can also be used in the Pool B and C situations.
"Last year we had a Pool C team make it in by five to sixth one-thousand of a point," explained Kaiser. "Kind of like Defiance High School got into the playoffs this year."

On Travel problems with 1st round mathchups:

Kaiser and the committee have the challenging task of matching up teams in the playoffs so the don't have to fly to play games, with the cost coming out of the NCAA's pocket. The NCAA requires teams to fly if they're traveling 500 miles or more and requires teams to take a bus if the trip is 499 miles or closer.
"That's not ever real easy, not at all," said Kaiser about trying to keep flights to a minimum for the playoffs. "This year there's a strong possibility that there will be a potential No. 1 (regional) seed out of Oregon, an undefeated team out of California, a one-loss league champion out of Texas and undefeated team out of Jackson, Miss. There's no schools close, so you're going to have to fly."
________________________________________________________________________________



Thoughts?

I still think MUC could go east regardless of the Cortland outcome...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:32:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 14, 2008, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...

I would tend to disagree with this statement only because it doesn't speak to the question about parity.  A team in any conference might have a loss because all the teams are more equivalent in capability.  And if more teams in one region are going undeated then there are other teams in that same region that are losing more games.  I'd much rather see conferences and regions where the title is up for grab each year.

Separately I think it's a mistake for the NCAA to try to engineer the final four teams.  When they move teams from one region to another that is all they're trying to do.  Win your conference, get the AQ and stay in your region.  The Pool B and C teams should also only come from the region they belong to.

Imagine this scenario which we see happen.  A team moves from North to East, wins the East.  So we wonder, who is the best team in the East.  That just ain't right.

Anytime a sport tries to engineer a championship it's a disaster.  Division I Football BCS for example.  What a nightmare that is.  NASCAR Race for the Cup - there's a fan favorite.  How would you like to be Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, and Nashville and be in the same division with the Detroit Redwings?  You don't make the playoffs and you don't get extra credit for playing the best team in the league.  Finishing second to the Redwings out to be worth something (BTW I'm a Pittsburgh Penguin fan, and yes the better team won last year).

Engineered playoffs are just wrong.
Good thoughts, but I respectfully disagree.   :)

Pool C bids are engineered for the playoffs.  The NCAA has determined that they will pay for one playoff bid for every 6.5 participants (in most sports.  The playoff ratio is slightly higher in other sports.)

Almost every fan on this site thinks that the expansion from 3 Pool C bids to 6 Pool C bids in 2005 was a big improvement.  Why do we have Pool C bids?  IMHO, to improve the playoffs.

In 2002, John Carroll (OAC) won the East as the #7 seed!  Parity?  That suggests that the East has parity, but wouldn't ever make the playoffs in the North  Region!  2002 Bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm)

IN 2004 Pool C Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC) made it to the Stagg Bowl back when there were only 3 Pool C bids.  D3football.com's (Week #11 Poll) #8 UMHB went on the road and beat   #7 Trinity by 29, #3 HSU by 14, #5 W&J by 36 and #1 Mount Union by 3 in Alliance.  They lost to Elliott's #2 Linfield in the Stagg, 21-28.

(Please remember that D3football.com Top 25 is an opinion of 25 knowledgeable SID's Coaches and Media of the best teams in the country.  The NCAA Selection process is the association's process to determine all playoff contenders.)

Let's get the best teams in the country as far apart as we can for as long as we can in the playoffs.  Moving a really top seed to a demonstrably weaker region is fine with me.


Also, with regard to Pool C bids...

Pool C bids are basically Wild Cards. And every sport who uses a playoff--to my knowledge--has Wild Cards. That's not really a major tweak in the system. And there's a difference between getting the best teams in, and helping the best teeams get as far as they can. Becuase don't the better teams already have advantages? They play home games, they play the lower seeded teams. Why do they need more advantages?

I guess I don't like it when any league does something that almost no other leagues do, because it's rarely a good idea:

NHL-- The only league where you can improve in the standings with a loss
MLB-- The only league with different sets of rules for different teams
NCAA D-1 football-- The only league not to use a playoff system to determine it's champion

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 14, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
USee posted this in the General Football's Potential Playoff Selection/Seeds:

Found an article in a local Ohio paper interviewing Dick Kaiser, Head of the D3 playoff selection committee. Here is the link:

http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/4466158

He says some interesting things that give insight into the committee's thinking.

On the top 4 seeds:

"I think we're going to try again to seed the top four teams," said Kaiser, who served as the defensive coordinator at Idaho State in 1981 when it won the Division I-AA national championship and before that coached outside linebackers at BYU. "Then take the teams and fill up the brackets so it won't be like North, East, South and West. It'll be like Team A's bracket, Team B's bracket and so on and so forth. That's how last year, everybody was all upset that all of sudden Mount Union was playing all of these East teams. Alliance is close (to the East coast) and can play all those East teams."

On the criteria for selection:


"The very first thing we always look at is there any head-to-head meetings," said Kaiser, a Boulder, Colo. native. "Head-to-head is one of the primary criteria we always look at in ranking teams and putting teams into the field. If they didn't play each other, then you have to go to the numbers about their opponents, their in-region record, their opponents in-region record, their opponents, opponents in-region record. Then you also look at the secondary criteria, their opponents in-division record and their opponents, opponents in-division record. Those are four numbers that we have to take into play."
Using a common opponent that teams played can also be used in the Pool B and C situations.
"Last year we had a Pool C team make it in by five to sixth one-thousand of a point," explained Kaiser. "Kind of like Defiance High School got into the playoffs this year."

On Travel problems with 1st round mathchups:

Kaiser and the committee have the challenging task of matching up teams in the playoffs so the don't have to fly to play games, with the cost coming out of the NCAA's pocket. The NCAA requires teams to fly if they're traveling 500 miles or more and requires teams to take a bus if the trip is 499 miles or closer.
"That's not ever real easy, not at all," said Kaiser about trying to keep flights to a minimum for the playoffs. "This year there's a strong possibility that there will be a potential No. 1 (regional) seed out of Oregon, an undefeated team out of California, a one-loss league champion out of Texas and undefeated team out of Jackson, Miss. There's no schools close, so you're going to have to fly."
________________________________________________________________________________



Thoughts?

I still think MUC could go east regardless of the Cortland outcome...

He LIES!!!!! IC lost out on the playoffs in 1998 when they topped TCNJ in a H2H. LIES I tell you!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 14, 2008, 04:41:42 PM
Dude that was 10 years ago, that playoff format is like latin to these guys...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 14, 2008, 04:41:42 PM
Dude that was 10 years ago, that playoff format is like latin to these guys...

I know....I'm just saying....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 14, 2008, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 14, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
USee posted this in the General Football's Potential Playoff Selection/Seeds:

Found an article in a local Ohio paper interviewing Dick Kaiser, Head of the D3 playoff selection committee. Here is the link:

http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/4466158

He says some interesting things that give insight into the committee's thinking.

On the top 4 seeds:


On the criteria for selection:


On Travel problems with 1st round mathchups:

________________________________________________________________________________

Thoughts?

I still think MUC could go east regardless of the Cortland outcome...

Yeah, I posted some thoughts on the General Football's Potential Playoff Selection/Seeds (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6053.msg979962#msg979962) board.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: TheGrove on November 14, 2008, 04:58:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:32:54 PM

NCAA D-1 football-- The only league not to use a playoff system to determine it's champion



Not so fast my friend... don't forget D1 FCS uses a playoff. And that's why I like it better.  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 14, 2008, 05:07:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 14, 2008, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2008, 08:15:18 PM
Im not saying they go out of their way to "screw" the east bringing a better team in im saying make the brackets even in terms of strength.  It doesnt make sense to have 3/4 undefeated teams in one region only to have another region have their top 3 seeds possess 2 losses (combined)...

I would tend to disagree with this statement only because it doesn't speak to the question about parity.  A team in any conference might have a loss because all the teams are more equivalent in capability.  And if more teams in one region are going undeated then there are other teams in that same region that are losing more games.  I'd much rather see conferences and regions where the title is up for grab each year.

Separately I think it's a mistake for the NCAA to try to engineer the final four teams.  When they move teams from one region to another that is all they're trying to do.  Win your conference, get the AQ and stay in your region.  The Pool B and C teams should also only come from the region they belong to.

Imagine this scenario which we see happen.  A team moves from North to East, wins the East.  So we wonder, who is the best team in the East.  That just ain't right.

Anytime a sport tries to engineer a championship it's a disaster.  Division I Football BCS for example.  What a nightmare that is.  NASCAR Race for the Cup - there's a fan favorite.  How would you like to be Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, and Nashville and be in the same division with the Detroit Redwings?  You don't make the playoffs and you don't get extra credit for playing the best team in the league.  Finishing second to the Redwings out to be worth something (BTW I'm a Pittsburgh Penguin fan, and yes the better team won last year).

Engineered playoffs are just wrong.
Good thoughts, but I respectfully disagree.   :)

Pool C bids are engineered for the playoffs.  The NCAA has determined that they will pay for one playoff bid for every 6.5 participants (in most sports.  The playoff ratio is slightly higher in other sports.)

Almost every fan on this site thinks that the expansion from 3 Pool C bids to 6 Pool C bids in 2005 was a big improvement.  Why do we have Pool C bids?  IMHO, to improve the playoffs.

In 2002, John Carroll (OAC) won the East as the #7 seed!  Parity?  That suggests that the East has parity, but wouldn't ever make the playoffs in the North  Region!  2002 Bracket (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm)

IN 2004 Pool C Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC) made it to the Stagg Bowl back when there were only 3 Pool C bids.  D3football.com's (Week #11 Poll) #8 UMHB went on the road and beat   #7 Trinity by 29, #3 HSU by 14, #5 W&J by 36 and #1 Mount Union by 3 in Alliance.  They lost to Elliott's #2 Linfield in the Stagg, 21-28.

(Please remember that D3football.com Top 25 is an opinion of 25 knowledgeable SID's Coaches and Media of the best teams in the country.  The NCAA Selection process is the association's process to determine all playoff contenders.)

Let's get the best teams in the country as far apart as we can for as long as we can in the playoffs.  Moving a really top seed to a demonstrably weaker region is fine with me.


That 2002 JCU example is a bad one in my opinion.  They were ranked the #11 team in the country at that time.  Why they were seeded 7th made no sense.  

Not to mention 2 flukey plays helped them get out of the first round.  Nevermind - sour grapes.

And JCU won an OT game to defeat the #4 seed that upset the #1 the week before.  

Regardless, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the #11 team in the nation won that bracket - and most people who saw them play would say that they didn't overmatch anyone they played.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 14, 2008, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 14, 2008, 04:29:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2008, 11:14:59 PM
If Utica on your schedule was instead Hartwick... or if Endicott on your schedule was instead Plymouth St. or Curry... We wouldn't be having nearly as much argument to try to convince people that RPI should be in as a Pool C.  Either they might be ahead of Monclair at this point (which would be important to avoid the "freeze out" that's happening right now to RPI) or they would be assured the final Pool C slot with only one of the eight scenarios I posed happening.  A subtle change in scheduling could go a long way down the road to help RPI build up a much better insurance policy.  Right now, Wooster fans think a two-loss Wooster has a shot over a one-loss RPI team.  I'm trying to beat them back, but such an argument shouldn't even be capable of happening.


Not sure if anyone in the East cares, but here's my two cents.

I'm beyond shocked that there are people out there who honestly believe Wooster should be in the field with 2 losses.  Are you kinding me?  Wooster?  They'd be one of my last ranked 9-1 teams, let alone 8-2.   I'd take an 8-2 Ithaca before I'd take a 9-1 Wooster.  Outside of Wabash, their conference is horrible. 


oh snap. where da wooster fans at?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 14, 2008, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:12:20 PM
Teams in D-III have to play such regional schedules, and recruiting is so regional, it's not like most other sports where you have national reach. Why not leave the East to the East? Yes, it's unfortunate for good teams in the North who could probably pound a lot of East teams and get stuck losing to MUC in the regionals, but how is that the East's fault? Sure, if the East wasn't so atrocious, they wouldn't have to worry about having teams moved over, but what's the ultimate goal here? So some team can lose to MUC or Whitewater in the national semis instead of the national quarters?

The last 15 National Title games have had either Rowan or MUC in 13 of them. D-III football is top-heavy enough. We've had the same NC game three years in a row. Why do we need to go out of our way to ensure we get more of the same? If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'm cool with it. But engineering the "best" matchups has, in my opinion, a bad side effect. It manufactures the same matchups. I honestly wish there was some more parity in D-III football. It'd be nice to see some different teams get some national exposure beyond the MUC's of the world...

Excellent post Bombers.  Also lets not forget the high number of football programs in New England, NY, NJ, and PA.  HS kids have more D3 choices then say Minnesota or Wisconsin (didn't do any research on this, but I'm pretty confident).  The regional talent gets spread out more in the east, especially with programs putting money into becoming nationally recognized - SJF for example.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2008, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 14, 2008, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:12:20 PM
Teams in D-III have to play such regional schedules, and recruiting is so regional, it's not like most other sports where you have national reach. Why not leave the East to the East? Yes, it's unfortunate for good teams in the North who could probably pound a lot of East teams and get stuck losing to MUC in the regionals, but how is that the East's fault? Sure, if the East wasn't so atrocious, they wouldn't have to worry about having teams moved over, but what's the ultimate goal here? So some team can lose to MUC or Whitewater in the national semis instead of the national quarters?

The last 15 National Title games have had either Rowan or MUC in 13 of them. D-III football is top-heavy enough. We've had the same NC game three years in a row. Why do we need to go out of our way to ensure we get more of the same? If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'm cool with it. But engineering the "best" matchups has, in my opinion, a bad side effect. It manufactures the same matchups. I honestly wish there was some more parity in D-III football. It'd be nice to see some different teams get some national exposure beyond the MUC's of the world...

Excellent post Bombers.  Also lets not forget the high number of football programs in New England, NY, NJ, and PA.  HS kids have more D3 choices then say Minnesota or Wisconsin (didn't do any research on this, but I'm pretty confident).  The regional talent gets spread out more in the east, especially with programs putting money into becoming nationally recognized - SJF for example.

Definitely an advantage in Wisconsin as the only D1 football playing school is the Badgers of Wisc-Madison.  The rest of the state universities are in the WIAC.  Which in my opinion is a huge advantage when it comes to recruiting due to state school tuition rates compared to the rest of D3.

However the number of school isn't an advantage in Ohio as there are a ton of schools ranging from D1 to D3.  Here's the run down of football programs in Ohio off the top of my head:

( 8 ) D1 = Ohio State, Cincinnati, Bowling Green, Akron, Kent State, Toledo, Ohio U and Miami.

(2) D1-AA = Youngstown State and Dayton

(3) D2 = Ashland, Tiffin and Findlay

(20) D3 = Baldwin Wallace, Capital, Heidelberg, Marietta, Mount Union, Muskingum, Otterbein, Ohio Northern, Wilmington, Bluffton, Wittenberg, Wooster, Defiance, Denison Mt. St. Joe, Case, Oberlin, Ohio Wesleyan, Hiram and Kenyon

(2) NAIA = Malone, Walsh


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 11:17:28 PM
hscoach, I think that the big advantage that you have in Ohio is not that you have so many really talented, physically gifted players in the state.

The big advantage that you have is the decades-old tradition of fundamentally sound, 4" too short, 40 lbs too light and 0.5 sec too slow players who anticipate and value the experience of the D3 model.

I consider Ohio vastly superior to Texas in the state's attitude to D3football as something worthy of a high school player's continued efforts.  Let's face it.  The "gene pool" is full of kids who are too short, too light or too slow for D1 ball.  We in Texas just need to capture more of them so that they value the D3 experience.

Let's face it, too, parents.

We see our high school kids succeeding by the model of:

1)  go to class
2)  go to practice
3)  come home and study to keep the grades eligible
4)  go to the game
5)  play and come home tired
6)  stay in in-season condition throughout the week
7)  start the routine over on Monday and then continue in the off-season.

Well that model carries over to D3 athletics.

1)   go to class (because many coaches have their spies out with the teachers to make sure their athletes are there and even sitting in the first three rows)
2)  go to practice (and college practice is usually more organized than what some had in high school.  Besides the bodies are bigger, faster and stronger than they were in high school, even in D3.)
3)  go back to the dorm or the apartment or library and study because you cannot slack off like you did in high school
4)  go to the game... (And as a D3 student-athlete, the coach does not own your kid's body, his/her scholarship or his/her curriculum.)

How many parents have seen their own kids or their neighbors' kid go off to college and

1)  miss class
2)  party late
3)  get hungover and over sleep the next morning
4)  party the next night
5)  finish the first semester with a GPA of 0.15

The difference in so many cases is that the discipline that we learned in high school sports, to do things that you are too tired or unpleasant but necessary to do get done, because that is what is expected of you!

Everyone of us in D3 can defend this model to our friends in the community.  This is why we can be so vociferous in support of the D3 model as building the citizens of the next generation.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: met_fan on November 14, 2008, 11:31:14 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 14, 2008, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:12:20 PM
Teams in D-III have to play such regional schedules, and recruiting is so regional, it's not like most other sports where you have national reach. Why not leave the East to the East? Yes, it's unfortunate for good teams in the North who could probably pound a lot of East teams and get stuck losing to MUC in the regionals, but how is that the East's fault? Sure, if the East wasn't so atrocious, they wouldn't have to worry about having teams moved over, but what's the ultimate goal here? So some team can lose to MUC or Whitewater in the national semis instead of the national quarters?

The last 15 National Title games have had either Rowan or MUC in 13 of them. D-III football is top-heavy enough. We've had the same NC game three years in a row. Why do we need to go out of our way to ensure we get more of the same? If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'm cool with it. But engineering the "best" matchups has, in my opinion, a bad side effect. It manufactures the same matchups. I honestly wish there was some more parity in D-III football. It'd be nice to see some different teams get some national exposure beyond the MUC's of the world...

Excellent post Bombers.  Also lets not forget the high number of football programs in New England, NY, NJ, and PA.  HS kids have more D3 choices then say Minnesota or Wisconsin (didn't do any research on this, but I'm pretty confident).  The regional talent gets spread out more in the east, especially with programs putting money into becoming nationally recognized - SJF for example.

There may be more choices here in the northeast, but there is also a much bigger population to draw from.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2008, 12:25:05 AM
Quote from: TGP on November 14, 2008, 05:07:12 PM
That 2002 JCU example is a bad one in my opinion.  They were ranked the #11 team in the country at that time.  Why they were seeded 7th made no sense.  

Not to mention 2 flukey plays helped them get out of the first round.  Nevermind - sour grapes.

And JCU won an OT game to defeat the #4 seed that upset the #1 the week before.  

Regardless, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the #11 team in the nation won that bracket - and most people who saw them play would say that they didn't overmatch anyone they played.

But they did win. On the road. Far on the road. With a quarterback on one knee.

I believe JCU was the seventh seed in that bracket because their home field was under construction and they couldn't have hosted a game anyway.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 15, 2008, 12:51:28 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 14, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
USee posted this in the General Football's Potential Playoff Selection/Seeds:

Found an article in a local Ohio paper interviewing Dick Kaiser, Head of the D3 playoff selection committee. Here is the link:

http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/4466158

He says some interesting things that give insight into the committee's thinking.

On the top 4 seeds:

"I think we're going to try again to seed the top four teams," said Kaiser, who served as the defensive coordinator at Idaho State in 1981 when it won the Division I-AA national championship and before that coached outside linebackers at BYU. "Then take the teams and fill up the brackets so it won't be like North, East, South and West. It'll be like Team A's bracket, Team B's bracket and so on and so forth. That's how last year, everybody was all upset that all of sudden Mount Union was playing all of these East teams. Alliance is close (to the East coast) and can play all those East teams."

On the criteria for selection:


"The very first thing we always look at is there any head-to-head meetings," said Kaiser, a Boulder, Colo. native. "Head-to-head is one of the primary criteria we always look at in ranking teams and putting teams into the field. If they didn't play each other, then you have to go to the numbers about their opponents, their in-region record, their opponents in-region record, their opponents, opponents in-region record. Then you also look at the secondary criteria, their opponents in-division record and their opponents, opponents in-division record. Those are four numbers that we have to take into play."
Using a common opponent that teams played can also be used in the Pool B and C situations.
"Last year we had a Pool C team make it in by five to sixth one-thousand of a point," explained Kaiser. "Kind of like Defiance High School got into the playoffs this year."

On Travel problems with 1st round mathchups:

Kaiser and the committee have the challenging task of matching up teams in the playoffs so the don't have to fly to play games, with the cost coming out of the NCAA's pocket. The NCAA requires teams to fly if they're traveling 500 miles or more and requires teams to take a bus if the trip is 499 miles or closer.
"That's not ever real easy, not at all," said Kaiser about trying to keep flights to a minimum for the playoffs. "This year there's a strong possibility that there will be a potential No. 1 (regional) seed out of Oregon, an undefeated team out of California, a one-loss league champion out of Texas and undefeated team out of Jackson, Miss. There's no schools close, so you're going to have to fly."
________________________________________________________________________________



Thoughts?

I still think MUC could go east regardless of the Cortland outcome...

re: Kaiser. Maybe he read my "Keep MUC out of the east" column last year.
re: thoughts. Keep MUC out of the east. If cortland wins, they deserve the one seed.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 12:56:23 AM
Yes, a 10-0 Cortland is a creditable #1 seed.

As I have posted elsewhere, why not make NCC a #2 seed in the West?

They might prefer to catch Willamette as opposed to MUC in the Regional Finals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 15, 2008, 10:33:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2008, 11:17:28 PM
hscoach, I think that the big advantage that you have in Ohio is not that you have so many really talented, physically gifted players in the state.

The big advantage that you have is the decades-old tradition of fundamentally sound, 4" too short, 40 lbs too light and 0.5 sec too slow players who anticipate and value the experience of the D3 model.

I consider Ohio vastly superior to Texas in the state's attitude to D3football as something worthy of a high school player's continued efforts.  Let's face it.  The "gene pool" is full of kids who are too short, too light or too slow for D1 ball.  We in Texas just need to capture more of them so that they value the D3 experience.

Let's face it, too, parents.

We see our high school kids succeeding by the model of:

1)  go to class
2)  go to practice
3)  come home and study to keep the grades eligible
4)  go to the game
5)  play and come home tired
6)  stay in in-season condition throughout the week
7)  start the routine over on Monday and then continue in the off-season.

Well that model carries over to D3 athletics.

1)   go to class (because many coaches have their spies out with the teachers to make sure their athletes are there and even sitting in the first three rows)
2)  go to practice (and college practice is usually more organized than what some had in high school.  Besides the bodies are bigger, faster and stronger than they were in high school, even in D3.)
3)  go back to the dorm or the apartment or library and study because you cannot slack off like you did in high school
4)  go to the game... (And as a D3 student-athlete, the coach does not own your kid's body, his/her scholarship or his/her curriculum.)

How many parents have seen their own kids or their neighbors' kid go off to college and

1)  miss class
2)  party late
3)  get hungover and over sleep the next morning
4)  party the next night
5)  finish the first semester with a GPA of 0.15

The difference in so many cases is that the discipline that we learned in high school sports, to do things that you are too tired or unpleasant but necessary to do get done, because that is what is expected of you!

Everyone of us in D3 can defend this model to our friends in the community.  This is why we can be so vociferous in support of the D3 model as building the citizens of the next generation.

Well said !!!   +K
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 10:38:54 AM
Quote from: hscoach on November 14, 2008, 06:59:32 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 14, 2008, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2008, 04:12:20 PM
Teams in D-III have to play such regional schedules, and recruiting is so regional, it's not like most other sports where you have national reach. Why not leave the East to the East? Yes, it's unfortunate for good teams in the North who could probably pound a lot of East teams and get stuck losing to MUC in the regionals, but how is that the East's fault? Sure, if the East wasn't so atrocious, they wouldn't have to worry about having teams moved over, but what's the ultimate goal here? So some team can lose to MUC or Whitewater in the national semis instead of the national quarters?

The last 15 National Title games have had either Rowan or MUC in 13 of them. D-III football is top-heavy enough. We've had the same NC game three years in a row. Why do we need to go out of our way to ensure we get more of the same? If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'm cool with it. But engineering the "best" matchups has, in my opinion, a bad side effect. It manufactures the same matchups. I honestly wish there was some more parity in D-III football. It'd be nice to see some different teams get some national exposure beyond the MUC's of the world...

Excellent post Bombers.  Also lets not forget the high number of football programs in New England, NY, NJ, and PA.  HS kids have more D3 choices then say Minnesota or Wisconsin (didn't do any research on this, but I'm pretty confident).  The regional talent gets spread out more in the east, especially with programs putting money into becoming nationally recognized - SJF for example.

Definitely an advantage in Wisconsin as the only D1 football playing school is the Badgers of Wisc-Madison.  The rest of the state universities are in the WIAC.  Which in my opinion is a huge advantage when it comes to recruiting due to state school tuition rates compared to the rest of D3.

However the number of school isn't an advantage in Ohio as there are a ton of schools ranging from D1 to D3.  Here's the run down of football programs in Ohio off the top of my head:

( 8 ) D1 = Ohio State, Cincinnati, Bowling Green, Akron, Kent State, Toledo, Ohio U and Miami.

(2) D1-AA = Youngstown State and Dayton

(3) D2 = Ashland, Tiffin and Findlay

(20) D3 = Baldwin Wallace, Capital, Heidelberg, Marietta, Mount Union, Muskingum, Otterbein, Ohio Northern, Wilmington, Bluffton, Wittenberg, Wooster, Defiance, Denison Mt. St. Joe, Case, Oberlin, Ohio Wesleyan, Hiram and Kenyon

(2) NAIA = Malone, Walsh

Ralph/hscoach

Re: D3 options in the east

I left out Ohio for the same reasons listed in your followup. OH has great HS talent and participation which can support the number of football programs in all divisions. Another topic for another day.  In a few hours the playoff speculations will come flying in here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 03:43:02 PM
aaaaand here we go.

Ithaca beat Cortland
Hobart beat Rochester wins LL
RPI lost to MMA
Montclair lost to Kean
Lyco wins the MAC
P-state won the NEFC

SJF losing

Pool C looks bananas now, 2 loses for RPI, Montclair, Rowan... and Curry's out there at 9-1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BomberJeff on November 15, 2008, 03:45:10 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 03:43:02 PM
aaaaand here we go.

Ithaca beat Cortland
Hobart beat Rochester
RPI lost to MMA
Montclair lost to Kean

SJF losing...

And Lycoming clinches the MAC thanks to winning and Delaware Valley defeating Albright.

Does anybody want to figure out which three teams are going to be brought into the region?  I don't think I can stand it right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 03:45:55 PM
Anyone think Rowan can sneak in?  Curry??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BomberJeff on November 15, 2008, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 03:45:55 PM
Anyone think Rowan can sneak in?  Curry??

Curry?  No chance unless opinions on New England football in Division III drastically improves in the next 24 hours.

Rowan?  Maybe, but I think its gonna take some other results coming in around the nation, and I'm not going to bet on it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 03:49:14 PM
This is too complicated to figure out... have fun selection committee

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.simpsoncrazy.com%2Fgallery%2Fimages%2FProfessorFrink2.gif&hash=68cc39a10b7296e2bd70db3574184013c57db9bb)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 15, 2008, 03:52:31 PM
If the math is too complicated for the RPI alum, the selection committee is doomed.  DOOOOOOOMED!!! :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:06:48 PM
Quote from: BomberJeff on November 15, 2008, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 03:45:55 PM
Anyone think Rowan can sneak in?  Curry??

Curry?  No chance unless opinions on New England football in Division III drastically improves in the next 24 hours.

Rowan?  Maybe, but I think its gonna take some other results coming in around the nation, and I'm not going to bet on it.

9-1 Curry will be hard to overlook in a sea of 2-loss teams.

Same goes for 7-0 in-Division Husson.

Argh.  d3football.com servers overloaded, apparently.

Ithaca 9-1 Pool A, with a win over Cortland, looks like a no. 2 seed in the East.  Muhlenberg lost, they won't be imported as a No. 1.

My early prediction is MUC = "East" No. 1, NCC = North No. 1.

Wabash lost today.  Otterbein is tied w/ John Carroll 00:48 4th Q

UPDATE:  JCU - OTT go to OT
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2008, 04:07:27 PM
SJF loses in OT 36-33...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:12:32 PM
Sorry, typo, you are right... reverse the two
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 04:15:44 PM
Husson/MUC would be gridiron hilarity.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 04:15:44 PM
Husson/MUC would be gridiron hilarity.

Has MUC been tested at all this year?  Is SJF truly their closest game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2008, 04:18:01 PM
If MUC played Husson 500 times, MUC wins 500 games. If this is inded a 1st rd matchup, RT predicts 60-0 MUC
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 04:21:02 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2008, 04:18:01 PM
If MUC played Husson 500 times, MUC wins 500 games. If this is inded a 1st rd matchup, RT predicts 60-0 MUC

that looks like a semi final score for MUC... try 91-0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: realistic on November 15, 2008, 04:22:04 PM
'gro - exact thought as I was reading pg's post.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2008, 04:18:01 PM
If MUC played Husson 500 times, MUC wins 500 games. If this is inded a 1st rd matchup, RT predicts 60-0 MUC

They've won by more than that in the OAC this year, no?

UPDATE: Gaaah!  JCU fumbles on 3d and 10 in OT, OTT recovers, wins 20 -17.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2008, 04:07:27 PM
SJF loses in OT 36-33...

So IC gets an AQ...where does that leave them? The #2 Seed behind MUC I suppose. Who do we think they'll play in the first round?

And if you're the Bombers, who do you put under center? Grastorf is running this offense very well. I've got to say, go with the guy that brung you.

Credit Mike Welch...what a game plan he had. Absolutely brilliant call with the screen play for the TD to Ruggerio. How does Cortland average 6 yards a run and only 22 carries? How can you abandon the run when it's so obviously working?

Seemed to me like Cortland packed it in after the 2nd INT in the end zone. Cortland seems to do that against IC...they're dangerous in close games, but man, you get them down a few scores and the energy just leaves. I know they had a playoff bid anyway, but now, they're looking at MUC and they would have to go to Ithaca. Ugly stuff. They were gashed by a backup QB and RB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: realistic on November 15, 2008, 04:44:34 PM
Crossing fingers for a 2nd round Cortland at Ithaca game.  That would be sweet.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:39:21 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2008, 04:07:27 PM
SJF loses in OT 36-33...

So IC gets an AQ...where does that leave them? The #2 Seed behind MUC I suppose. Who do we think they'll play in the first round?

And if you're the Bombers, who do you put under center? Grastorf is running this offense very well. I've got to say, go with the guy that brung you.

Credit Mike Welch...what a game plan he had. Absolutely brilliant call with the screen play for the TD to Ruggerio. How does Cortland average 6 yards a run and only 22 carries? How can you abandon the run when it's so obviously working?

Seemed to me like Cortland packed it in after the 2nd INT in the end zone. Cortland seems to do that against IC...they're dangerous in close games, but man, you get them down a few scores and the energy just leaves. I know they had a playoff bid anyway, but now, they're looking at MUC and they would have to go to Ithaca. Ugly stuff. They were gashed by a backup QB and RB


COACH MAC!

Third and short?  Pop pass to the TE.

Third and long?  Screen

Not that hard. Credit Coach Welch because he knows that his opposing coach cannot see what the entire crowd can.  As far as folding like a tent?  LEADERSHIP
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 07:46:43 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:39:21 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2008, 04:07:27 PM
SJF loses in OT 36-33...

So IC gets an AQ...where does that leave them? The #2 Seed behind MUC I suppose. Who do we think they'll play in the first round?

And if you're the Bombers, who do you put under center? Grastorf is running this offense very well. I've got to say, go with the guy that brung you.

Credit Mike Welch...what a game plan he had. Absolutely brilliant call with the screen play for the TD to Ruggerio. How does Cortland average 6 yards a run and only 22 carries? How can you abandon the run when it's so obviously working?

Seemed to me like Cortland packed it in after the 2nd INT in the end zone. Cortland seems to do that against IC...they're dangerous in close games, but man, you get them down a few scores and the energy just leaves. I know they had a playoff bid anyway, but now, they're looking at MUC and they would have to go to Ithaca. Ugly stuff. They were gashed by a backup QB and RB


COACH MAC!

Third and short?  Pop pass to the TE.

Third and long?  Screen

Not that hard. Credit Coach Welch because he knows that his opposing coach cannot see what the entire crowd can.  As far as folding like a tent?  LEADERSHIP

Are you saying you should run a screen on third and long?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

Ah ok, I didnt see the game it was a serious question.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's

That makes me laugh.  My years we had some great offensive teams but no screen passes.  Thinking back Im not sure why.  Funny.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 08:05:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's

We played a zone and it would have worked but if there were 2 defensive players in the area, then they would both sit behind the guy instead of one stepping in front and the other covering deep.

And that disaster at the end of the first half is inexcusible and you know it.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 15, 2008, 08:20:40 PM
It's pie-in-the-sky to think there's going to be a 2nd round IC/Cortland matchup. I think the committee will give Cortland the #4 seed the Dragons, in the event they can win their playoff opener, will be fed to MUC in the 2nd round. Cortland's "numbers" are better than Hobart's, but the Law of Recency (recent losses hurt more) will hurt the Red Dragons.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it and I'm sure the NCAA wouldn't mind having a 2nd round game draw 8,000-10,000 people. Can you imagine that? Drinking that heavily for the 2nd time in 14 days? Wow. I'd make the trip up from B-more for that one, no doubt.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's

That makes me laugh.  My years we had some great offensive teams but no screen passes.  Thinking back Im not sure why.  Funny.

You need the right backs for it...Donovan wasn't much of a pass-catcher, neither was Baez. Caleb C-G and Celebre just weren;t that good in open space. Neither was Giorgio. Dave Maddi was the kind of guy you'd like to get out there. He caught 10 passes in a playoff win over RPI
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 15, 2008, 08:52:01 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 15, 2008, 08:20:40 PM
It's pie-in-the-sky to think there's going to be a 2nd round IC/Cortland matchup. I think the committee will give Cortland the #4 seed the Dragons, in the event they can win their playoff opener, will be fed to MUC in the 2nd round. Cortland's "numbers" are better than Hobart's, but the Law of Recency (recent losses hurt more) will hurt the Red Dragons.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it and I'm sure the NCAA wouldn't mind having a 2nd round game draw 8,000-10,000 people. Can you imagine that? Drinking that heavily for the 2nd time in 14 days? Wow. I'd make the trip up from B-more for that one, no doubt.
\

I like the term "fed", gb.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 15, 2008, 09:12:47 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 04:15:44 PM
Husson/MUC would be gridiron hilarity.

Has MUC been tested at all this year?  Is SJF truly their closest game?

The only real test in the regular season was Week 9 at Otterbein.  Mid-way thru the 2nd quarter, it was only 21-13 Mount before they scored twice in the final few minutes to blow it open 35-13 at the half.  Game ended up 49-20.

This Mount team is very good at the skill positions on offense with Micheli, Kmic and Cecil Shorts taking over for Garcon, but the O-line was pretty average to start the season and has really been hurt by injuries.  A team with a strong D-line will give Mount fits.

Defensively, they're a little smaller than last year, but faster. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 15, 2008, 09:16:52 PM
A) no one gives MUC "fits" until the finals

B) dew...didn't know u were in B'more. Rt had 2 tix for nd/navy today he ate b/c he didn't know anyone to use them last minute
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's

That makes me laugh.  My years we had some great offensive teams but no screen passes.  Thinking back Im not sure why.  Funny.

You need the right backs for it...Donovan wasn't much of a pass-catcher, neither was Baez. Caleb C-G and Celebre just weren;t that good in open space. Neither was Giorgio. Dave Maddi was the kind of guy you'd like to get out there. He caught 10 passes in a playoff win over RPI

I dunno.  I think any d3 RB should be able to catch a screen pass....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's

That makes me laugh.  My years we had some great offensive teams but no screen passes.  Thinking back Im not sure why.  Funny.

You need the right backs for it...Donovan wasn't much of a pass-catcher, neither was Baez. Caleb C-G and Celebre just weren;t that good in open space. Neither was Giorgio. Dave Maddi was the kind of guy you'd like to get out there. He caught 10 passes in a playoff win over RPI

I dunno.  I think any d3 RB should be able to catch a screen pass....

It's not so much the catch, but what you do with it after. The ability to make guys miss, make moves in the open field, that kind of thing. Look at the Ruggerio TD. Jamie Donovan was the man, but he's not taking a pass like that to the end zone
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:23:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 15, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
Im saying we should have known it was coming.

As far as what we should have done, it was obvious to everyone in the stadium but either our head coach or our O-Cooridnator.

Run. The. Football.

State, having seen the Bombers a lot these past 20 years, let me tell you this: Those were the 2nd and 3rd screens I've seen from Ithaca this season. I'm not exaggerating. They ran one against I believe Frostburg, but that's it. They really don't run screens at all.

I will say that Weverburgh's ability to find soft spots in the zone in unparalleld. That's why he was a preseason All-American. Great TE's are tough to cover. He's too big for a DB, but too fast for a lot of LB's

That makes me laugh.  My years we had some great offensive teams but no screen passes.  Thinking back Im not sure why.  Funny.

You need the right backs for it...Donovan wasn't much of a pass-catcher, neither was Baez. Caleb C-G and Celebre just weren;t that good in open space. Neither was Giorgio. Dave Maddi was the kind of guy you'd like to get out there. He caught 10 passes in a playoff win over RPI

I dunno.  I think any d3 RB should be able to catch a screen pass....

It's not so much the catch, but what you do with it after. The ability to make guys miss, make moves in the open field, that kind of thing. Look at the Ruggerio TD. Jamie Donovan was the man, but he's not taking a pass like that to the end zone

I didnt see that play.  But my whole point is that the play itself is such a weapon that I was suprised we never even had it when I played.  If its run the right way, even your 5.0/40 yd. fullback should be able to pick up 15-30 yards on the play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 15, 2008, 10:10:42 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 15, 2008, 09:12:47 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 04:15:44 PM
Husson/MUC would be gridiron hilarity.

Has MUC been tested at all this year?  Is SJF truly their closest game?

The only real test in the regular season was Week 9 at Otterbein.  Mid-way thru the 2nd quarter, it was only 21-13 Mount before they scored twice in the final few minutes to blow it open 35-13 at the half.  Game ended up 49-20.

This Mount team is very good at the skill positions on offense with Micheli, Kmic and Cecil Shorts taking over for Garcon, but the O-line was pretty average to start the season and has really been hurt by injuries.  A team with a strong D-line will give Mount fits.

Defensively, they're a little smaller than last year, but faster. 

using that comparison, with seconds left in the half week 1 it was only 14-0, before a pick 6 that blew it open.  The second score to make it 14-0 came on a fumbled snap by SJF QB deep in own zone.  either way, neither team really tested MUC.

MUC's only tests since regular season 2006 against Cap, was 2006 semi and 2007 Stagg
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.

even hartwick?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.

even hartwick?

No way they take the second place team from the NEFC over the second place team from the E8...Wick will get in over Curry...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.

even hartwick?

No way they take the second place team from the NEFC over the second place team from the E8...Wick will get in over Curry...

Yea the nefc is horrible.  Have they ever won a playoff game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.

even hartwick?

No way they take the second place team from the NEFC over the second place team from the E8...Wick will get in over Curry...

Yea the nefc is horrible.  Have they ever won a playoff game?

That was last year bub...lets stay focused...should IC get the #1 seed because the won a NC in 1991?  No, they should get it because they had the best year this year in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:26:52 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:22:22 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.

even hartwick?

No way they take the second place team from the NEFC over the second place team from the E8...Wick will get in over Curry...

Yea the nefc is horrible.  Have they ever won a playoff game?

That was last year bub...lets stay focused...should IC get the #1 seed because the won a NC in 1991?  No, they should get it because they had the best year this year in the East.

That gets us to the larger question of this whole "regional" debate. I would agree that IC is the best team in the East, but that being said, the NCAA isn't so much interested in getting the best teams from the north, south, east and west into the Final 4, just the four best teams.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:28:52 PM
I think MUC is coming over to the East.  That being said, I still think Wick has as good as an arguement as anyone to get a Pool C from the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:31:39 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:28:52 PM
I think MUC is coming over to the East.  That being said, I still think Wick has as good as an arguement as anyone to get a Pool C from the East.

Here's the thing I'd ask:

What is Hartwick's signature win? If you're the NCAA committee, what game could you circle on Wick's schedule that says: "Here's why the Hawks should be in"? Because unfortunately, there is a game you could circle that would say "Here's why they shouldn't be in"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:31:39 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:28:52 PM
I think MUC is coming over to the East.  That being said, I still think Wick has as good as an arguement as anyone to get a Pool C from the East.

Here's the thing I'd ask:

What is Hartwick's signature win? If you're the NCAA committee, what game could you circle on Wick's schedule that says: "Here's why the Hawks should be in"? Because unfortunately, there is a game you could circle that would say "Here's why they shouldn't be in"


See E8 board...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 15, 2008, 10:34:33 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:28:52 PM
I think MUC is coming over to the East.  That being said, I still think Wick has as good as an arguement as anyone to get a Pool C from the East.

check turner's commentary from the pool c thread:

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 10:22:40 PM
Pool A's:  MUC, Ithaca, Cortland, Hobart, Plymouth State, Lycoming.
Pool C's: W&J and Montclair State.

I have a hard time seeing an East Region team being passed over 6 times in the Pool C deliberations!  I think that one Pool C team will come to the east.

The Committee might move Muhlenberg or Wesley in here for some geographic balance, too.

Would Husson really get some consideration as a Pool C instead of Montclair?  Nah.

more likely that MUC and W&J come in meaning there is really only one open spot pool c wise - could lead to wesley getting shipped in too.

even montclair would be a better pick than wick in my opinion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 15, 2008, 10:37:35 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 15, 2008, 10:10:42 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 15, 2008, 09:12:47 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 15, 2008, 04:15:44 PM
Husson/MUC would be gridiron hilarity.

Has MUC been tested at all this year?  Is SJF truly their closest game?

The only real test in the regular season was Week 9 at Otterbein.  Mid-way thru the 2nd quarter, it was only 21-13 Mount before they scored twice in the final few minutes to blow it open 35-13 at the half.  Game ended up 49-20.

This Mount team is very good at the skill positions on offense with Micheli, Kmic and Cecil Shorts taking over for Garcon, but the O-line was pretty average to start the season and has really been hurt by injuries.  A team with a strong D-line will give Mount fits.

Defensively, they're a little smaller than last year, but faster. 

using that comparison, with seconds left in the half week 1 it was only 14-0, before a pick 6 that blew it open.  The second score to make it 14-0 came on a fumbled snap by SJF QB deep in own zone.  either way, neither team really tested MUC.

MUC's only tests since regular season 2006 against Cap, was 2006 semi and 2007 Stagg

And 2005 Rowan w/o a starting QB, running back, and AA DE.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:37:57 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:20:04 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 15, 2008, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 04:11:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
With the mules using, I can almost see this...

1.  MUC (A)
2.  Ithaca (A)
3.  Hobart (A)
4.  Lycoming (A)
5.  Cortland State (A)
6.  Plymouth State (A)
7.  Curry (C)
8.  Husson (B)

9-1 Cortland CAN'T be seeded behind 2-loss Lyco.

Update: I think you should put Cortland ahead of Hobart, based on . . . um, . . . wins v. formerly ranked opponents?  Quality losses?  Cortland lost to no. 2 seed, HoHoHobart lost to Union.

Otterbein 4th and goal from the 6, OT - FG Good, JCU's turn next


RS -

I have no idea where Cortland ends up after getting smoked on the eve of the selection, but I am pretty certain Hobart won't be seeded lower than 4 in the East.  Actually I'd put them at 3 given all the losses (although RPI falling could ding Bart's OWP) across the East today.

Cortland and the NJAC looking just as questionable as all the other Eastern conferences with Montclair crapping the bed too.

No way Curry gets in as a Pool C.  More likely for a team to be shipped in from a different region than that happening.  I'm sorry but the runner up from the NEFC doesn't deserve to take an at-large bid from anyone.

even hartwick?

No way they take the second place team from the NEFC over the second place team from the E8...Wick will get in over Curry...

Conference has nothing to do with Pool C bids.  Pool C bids can even go to teams without a conference.

Like Husson.

Pool C bids have nothing to do with "who's better than whom."  It's all about the Selection Criteria.

You need to focus on the Selection Criteria.  Those begin with the Primary Criteria:
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:00 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:28:52 PM
I think MUC is coming over to the East.  That being said, I still think Wick has as good as an arguement as anyone to get a Pool C from the East.

I don't see how any two-loss team gets in ahead of an undefeated team.

Husson happens to be undefeated.

I didn't write the rules.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:39:48 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?

Is the E8 that much better this year than last year?  Im not so sure about that one.

And if you dont want to look at past seasons, why do you think the E8 is any better than the NEFC?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?

Because until you get to the NC game, no-one outside of these boards knows a thing about anyone in D-3...you think a first round game of Wick-MUC is going to get some sort of promotion?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?

Because until you get to the NC game, no-one outside of these boards knows a thing about anyone in D-3...you think a first round game of Wick-MUC is going to get some sort of promotion?

Are you trying to tell me that scouts don't know who Jason Boltus is?  If that is what you are saying, you need to read up a bit. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:43:13 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:00 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:28:52 PM
I think MUC is coming over to the East.  That being said, I still think Wick has as good as an arguement as anyone to get a Pool C from the East.

I don't see how any two-loss team gets in ahead of an undefeated team.

Husson happens to be undefeated.

I didn't write the rules.

They may get in...it would just be a shame considering they didn't play a single team in D3 that had a winning record...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?

Because until you get to the NC game, no-one outside of these boards knows a thing about anyone in D-3...you think a first round game of Wick-MUC is going to get some sort of promotion?

Are you trying to tell me that scouts don't know who Jason Boltus is?  If that is what you are saying, you need to read up a bit. 

I'm aware the scouts know who he is. So what? Does anyone outside of these boards know that? You think the NCAA is going to send out a press release saying "Hey, this guy is a fringe NFL caliber QB, come watch him get destroyed by MUC?"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?

Because until you get to the NC game, no-one outside of these boards knows a thing about anyone in D-3...you think a first round game of Wick-MUC is going to get some sort of promotion?

Are you trying to tell me that scouts don't know who Jason Boltus is?  If that is what you are saying, you need to read up a bit. 

I'm aware the scouts know who he is. So what? Does anyone outside of these boards know that? You think the NCAA is going to send out a press release saying "Hey, this guy is a fringe NFL caliber QB, come watch him get destroyed by MUC?"

Come on now...I would say there has been a lot of pub about Boltus all over the place.  Besides, how many press releases is the NCAA really going to put out about the NCAA playoffs anyways?  And who would read them BESIDES the people on these boards.  You improve the quality of the sport by promoting your best teams and your best players...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:49:06 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:36:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:24:57 PM
What makes you think Hartwick is that much better than Curry this year?  It wasnt even close last year was it?

Again...not focused on last year.  By that arguement, Fisher is a far better team than IC this year...which is ridiculous.  Are you telling me an NEFC team that didnt even make its conference championship game is better then any of the top 4 teams in the E8?

I dont know if Curry is better than Hartwick.  

Im kind of playing devils advocate here, but why should I believe Hartwick is better than Curry?  And yes, we do have to go by what happened last year.  Thats why IC is so good this year, because they had a lot of starters returning from last year.  I dont know who Curry has comming back, but they are 9-1, the same as they were last year when they beat the #1 (#2-#3) ranked E8 team

And yes, sometimes we do have to look what happened last year.  Do you think anyone is going to overlook Plymouth St in the playoffs?  I dont think so.


Again, that was last year...this is a new team.

Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?

Because until you get to the NC game, no-one outside of these boards knows a thing about anyone in D-3...you think a first round game of Wick-MUC is going to get some sort of promotion?

Are you trying to tell me that scouts don't know who Jason Boltus is?  If that is what you are saying, you need to read up a bit. 

I'm aware the scouts know who he is. So what? Does anyone outside of these boards know that? You think the NCAA is going to send out a press release saying "Hey, this guy is a fringe NFL caliber QB, come watch him get destroyed by MUC?"

Come on now...I would say there has been a lot of pub about Boltus all over the place.  Besides, how many press releases is the NCAA really going to put out about the NCAA playoffs anyways?  And who would read them BESIDES the people on these boards.  You improve the quality of the sport by promoting your best teams and your best players...

That's my point. The NCAA doesn't promote D-III football beyond the NC game. They never have. They never will. Why would Jason Boltus change that?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

I am not disagreeing.  If the rules are clear cut, then the rules are clear cut.  Doesn't mean I shouldn't voice an opinion about why Wick should get one of the remaining Pool C's.  They aren't always clear cut...if that was the case then a two loss IC team wouldn't have gotten a Pool C over a one loss Plymouth State team last year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?

"I've said it before and I'll say it again. Democracy doesn't work." --Kent Brockman
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?

Fair question.  First, let's make sure we are reading the same requirements:


By my interpretation, the Committee may only go to the secondary criteria after it has

But still, what does "evaluate" mean?  Well, a team could, by those Selection Criteria, be chosen on the basis of an "evaluation."  So "evaluate" has to include the process of choosing a winner based on those criteria.

If you're arguing that "evaluate" gives so much leeway that the Committee could say "ignore those actual statistics, we've got a made-for-tv qb in Boltus, and a guaranteed 8000 person gate with a second round Cortland - Ithaca rematch, then I think you're off-base.  I'm not so cynical to believe the NCAA would permit such a thing.

They have to select someone.  And they select them based on the Primary Criteria first.  I'll update this some more.

UPDATE:
  clearly, the committee has to assign priority to each criterion.  If I were on the committee, I'd assign highest priority to winning percentage.  Penn State is yet another example that even a good team with a light schedule still has a hell of a time winning all its games.

OWP/OOWP can't be as valuable as winning percentage, since a team with no wins could easily have a better OWP/OOWP than an undefeated team.

In the case of Pool C candidates, and Hartwick and Husson are good examples, there are rarely head-to-head results, and neither team has a win v. an RRO.

I think that the Committee might be adding winning percentage to OWP and OOWP to compare those stats.  So Husson gets 1.000 + .356 + .500 = 1.856, and Hartwick gets 0.778 + 0.492 + 0.537 =  1.807  My problem with this formula is it actually places a higher priority on OWP+OOWP

Where I would really get uncomfortable is where a Committee used a different priority for one set of teams than it used for a different set of teams being evaluated.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?

Fair question.  First, let's make sure we are reading the same requirements:


  • 31.3.5.2 Selection Criteria. The governing sports committee responsible for the selection of the balance of the championships field shall select teams in Pools B and C based on the criteria below. The criteria of two or more teams shall be compared to determine the higher-ranked team. An attempt shall be made to determine the ranking of two or more teams after consideration of the primary criteria (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.1). If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be used (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.2).  All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in preferential order). (Adopted: 1/12/04)

By my interpretation, the Committee may only go to the secondary criteria after it has

  • considered all of the primary criteria, and
  • attempted to determine a [winner] based on all of the primary criteria, and
  • concluded that there is no [winner] based on all of the primary criteria.

But still, what does "evaluate" mean?  Well, a team could, by those Selection Criteria, be chosen on the basis of an "evaluation."  So "evaluate" has to include the process of choosing a winner based on those criteria.

If you're arguing that "evaluate" gives so much leeway that the Committee could say "ignore those actual statistics, we've got a made-for-tv qb in Boltus, and a guaranteed 8000 person gate with a second round Cortland - Ithaca rematch, then I think you're off-base.  I'm not so cynical to believe the NCAA would permit such a thing.

They have to select someone.  And they select them based on the Primary Criteria first.  I'll update this some more.

I'd agree with you there Swarm...

1) I don't think Boltus is quite the draw people say. Really, are people in Alliance who would otherwise stay home suddenly going to show up for Boltus and the terrible defense he's dragging with him? Kimic would be the all-time leading rusher in d-3 if you gave him 35 carries against that defense

2) I wasn't allowed to go to Cortaca games when I was 5, so I don't remember 1988 that well, but my guess is, IC kids wouldn't be all that uppity for a Cortland rematch...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?

Fair question.  First, let's make sure we are reading the same requirements:


  • 31.3.5.2 Selection Criteria. The governing sports committee responsible for the selection of the balance of the championships field shall select teams in Pools B and C based on the criteria below. The criteria of two or more teams shall be compared to determine the higher-ranked team. An attempt shall be made to determine the ranking of two or more teams after consideration of the primary criteria (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.1). If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be used (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.2).  All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in preferential order). (Adopted: 1/12/04)

By my interpretation, the Committee may only go to the secondary criteria after it has

  • considered all of the primary criteria, and
  • attempted to determine a [winner] based on all of the primary criteria, and
  • concluded that there is no [winner] based on all of the primary criteria.

But still, what does "evaluate" mean?  Well, a team could, by those Selection Criteria, be chosen on the basis of an "evaluation."  So "evaluate" has to include the process of choosing a winner based on those criteria.

If you're arguing that "evaluate" gives so much leeway that the Committee could say "ignore those actual statistics, we've got a made-for-tv qb in Boltus, and a guaranteed 8000 person gate with a second round Cortland - Ithaca rematch, then I think you're off-base.  I'm not so cynical to believe the NCAA would permit such a thing.

They have to select someone.  And they select them based on the Primary Criteria first.  I'll update this some more.

I'd agree with you there Swarm...

1) I don't think Boltus is quite the draw people say. Really, are people in Alliance who would otherwise stay home suddenly going to show up for Boltus and the terrible defense he's dragging with him? Kimic would be the all-time leading rusher in d-3 if you gave him 35 carries against that defense

2) I wasn't allowed to go to Cortaca games when I was 5, so I don't remember 1988 that well, but my guess is, IC kids wouldn't be all that uppity for a Cortland rematch...

That is still as clear as mud...

Look, Wick may not get in.  No player in D3 is going to bring in a "huge" draw...but Boltus could generate some interest as a potential pro player...even against a MUC team.

The NCAA's does some crazy things...so you never know.  I just think Wick's arguement for a Pool C is as strong, if not stronger, then the other Pool C potentials.  For every arguement against Wick and for another team, a counter arguement can be made...and vice versa.

If its a ECAC bid, so be it.  Wick suits it up and looks to go 8-2 and finish off a great two year run...and hopefully much more future success.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:19:17 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?

Fair question.  First, let's make sure we are reading the same requirements:


  • 31.3.5.2 Selection Criteria. The governing sports committee responsible for the selection of the balance of the championships field shall select teams in Pools B and C based on the criteria below. The criteria of two or more teams shall be compared to determine the higher-ranked team. An attempt shall be made to determine the ranking of two or more teams after consideration of the primary criteria (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.1). If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be used (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.2).  All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in preferential order). (Adopted: 1/12/04)

By my interpretation, the Committee may only go to the secondary criteria after it has

  • considered all of the primary criteria, and
  • attempted to determine a [winner] based on all of the primary criteria, and
  • concluded that there is no [winner] based on all of the primary criteria.

But still, what does "evaluate" mean?  Well, a team could, by those Selection Criteria, be chosen on the basis of an "evaluation."  So "evaluate" has to include the process of choosing a winner based on those criteria.

If you're arguing that "evaluate" gives so much leeway that the Committee could say "ignore those actual statistics, we've got a made-for-tv qb in Boltus, and a guaranteed 8000 person gate with a second round Cortland - Ithaca rematch, then I think you're off-base.  I'm not so cynical to believe the NCAA would permit such a thing.

They have to select someone.  And they select them based on the Primary Criteria first.  I'll update this some more.

I'd agree with you there Swarm...

1) I don't think Boltus is quite the draw people say. Really, are people in Alliance who would otherwise stay home suddenly going to show up for Boltus and the terrible defense he's dragging with him? Kimic would be the all-time leading rusher in d-3 if you gave him 35 carries against that defense

2) I wasn't allowed to go to Cortaca games when I was 5, so I don't remember 1988 that well, but my guess is, IC kids wouldn't be all that uppity for a Cortland rematch...

That is still as clear as mud...

Look, Wick may not get in.  No player in D3 is going to bring in a "huge" draw...but Boltus could generate some interest as a potential pro player...even against a MUC team.

The NCAA's does some crazy things...so you never know.  I just think Wick's arguement for a Pool C is as strong, if not stronger, then the other Pool C potentials.  For every arguement against Wick and for another team, a counter arguement can be made...and vice versa.

If its a ECAC bid, so be it.  Wick suits it up and looks to go 8-2 and finish off a great two year run...and hopefully much more future success.

Would it be a travesty if Wick made it? No. And sure, they may make it. I've only seen them once this season, so I'm probably biased. As we can see now, IC scores on everyone not named Fisher, but man, I can't get over how bad that defense is
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:22:19 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:19:17 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 15, 2008, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2008, 10:45:39 PM
Guys, get serious.  They don't just sit around in one of Boston's three remaining cigar bars and ask themselves "who would be good to have in the tournament?"

There are rules.  Read what they are, and explain how a two loss team evaluates ahead of an undefeated team, using only the Primary Criteria.

you mean reviewing the primary criteria?

I've read the Selection Criteria over and over.  They are required to evaluate two or more teams (4, in the case of a Pool C showdown) on ALL Primary Criteria BEFORE they can consider the Secondary Criteria.  They can only go to Secondary if they look at ALL Primary Criteria and say "nope, no winner yet."

Ok then.  And this is a serious question.

Can you define "evaluate" for me?  If it were that straight forward couldnt a computer do it?

Fair question.  First, let's make sure we are reading the same requirements:


  • 31.3.5.2 Selection Criteria. The governing sports committee responsible for the selection of the balance of the championships field shall select teams in Pools B and C based on the criteria below. The criteria of two or more teams shall be compared to determine the higher-ranked team. An attempt shall be made to determine the ranking of two or more teams after consideration of the primary criteria (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.1). If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be used (see Bylaw 31.3.5.2.2).  All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in preferential order). (Adopted: 1/12/04)

By my interpretation, the Committee may only go to the secondary criteria after it has

  • considered all of the primary criteria, and
  • attempted to determine a [winner] based on all of the primary criteria, and
  • concluded that there is no [winner] based on all of the primary criteria.

But still, what does "evaluate" mean?  Well, a team could, by those Selection Criteria, be chosen on the basis of an "evaluation."  So "evaluate" has to include the process of choosing a winner based on those criteria.

If you're arguing that "evaluate" gives so much leeway that the Committee could say "ignore those actual statistics, we've got a made-for-tv qb in Boltus, and a guaranteed 8000 person gate with a second round Cortland - Ithaca rematch, then I think you're off-base.  I'm not so cynical to believe the NCAA would permit such a thing.

They have to select someone.  And they select them based on the Primary Criteria first.  I'll update this some more.

I'd agree with you there Swarm...

1) I don't think Boltus is quite the draw people say. Really, are people in Alliance who would otherwise stay home suddenly going to show up for Boltus and the terrible defense he's dragging with him? Kimic would be the all-time leading rusher in d-3 if you gave him 35 carries against that defense

2) I wasn't allowed to go to Cortaca games when I was 5, so I don't remember 1988 that well, but my guess is, IC kids wouldn't be all that uppity for a Cortland rematch...

That is still as clear as mud...

Look, Wick may not get in.  No player in D3 is going to bring in a "huge" draw...but Boltus could generate some interest as a potential pro player...even against a MUC team.

The NCAA's does some crazy things...so you never know.  I just think Wick's arguement for a Pool C is as strong, if not stronger, then the other Pool C potentials.  For every arguement against Wick and for another team, a counter arguement can be made...and vice versa.

If its a ECAC bid, so be it.  Wick suits it up and looks to go 8-2 and finish off a great two year run...and hopefully much more future success.

Would it be a travesty if Wick made it? No. And sure, they may make it. I've only seen them once this season, so I'm probably biased. As we can see now, IC scores on everyone not named Fisher, but man, I can't get over how bad that defense is

The D is still really young.  They had two really tough games this year...IC and SC.  Not saying they are a top flight D...but they were serviceable in the other 7 games, and played really well in spurts.  I like the attitude the new DC has brought in...and I think they are moving in the right direction.

Our offense can hang with anyone...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HHawks on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HHawks on November 15, 2008, 11:32:21 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards

Im not saying we would score 43 but I think we could score at least 20.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards

I think it was a general statement about the O and D, not really a comparison against MUC.  No one from Wick doubts that MUC is the real deal and that it would take a miracle of epic proportions to go into Alliance and pull off something resembling a victory....that doesn't mean it wouldn't be funner then hell to try...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:34:57 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards

I think it was a general statement about the O and D, not really a comparison against MUC.  No one from Wick doubts that MUC is the real deal and that it would take a miracle of epic proportions to go into Alliance and pull off something resembling a victory....that doesn't mean it wouldn't be funner then hell to try...

I'm with you there. It was fun to watch IC throw the kitchen sink at them too. Sadly, I just don't think that's going to be the case
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:34:57 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards

I think it was a general statement about the O and D, not really a comparison against MUC.  No one from Wick doubts that MUC is the real deal and that it would take a miracle of epic proportions to go into Alliance and pull off something resembling a victory....that doesn't mean it wouldn't be funner then hell to try...

I'm with you there. It was fun to watch IC throw the kitchen sink at them too. Sadly, I just don't think that's going to be the case

It may not be...but would LOVE the chance...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:34:57 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards

I think it was a general statement about the O and D, not really a comparison against MUC.  No one from Wick doubts that MUC is the real deal and that it would take a miracle of epic proportions to go into Alliance and pull off something resembling a victory....that doesn't mean it wouldn't be funner then hell to try...

I'm with you there. It was fun to watch IC throw the kitchen sink at them too. Sadly, I just don't think that's going to be the case

It may not be...but would LOVE the chance...

I feel like this is like three weeks ago when we were debating the Wick like this. Lol. All we need are some SJF guys to point out that they almost beat Salisbury and destroyed IC and we'd be back in October!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HHawks on November 15, 2008, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:38:46 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:35:45 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:34:57 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2008, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: HHawksE8Champs on November 15, 2008, 11:22:39 PM
You seen their defense at their worse. They played decent the rest of the defense minus the Springfield game. If you have an offense that scores 43 points a game, you only need to make a couple of stops and they played strong when they needed to.

1) You won't be hanging 43 on MUC...we went in there last season averaging 40 points a game over our last 6 games and put up 18 points. MUC has only allowed 60 points all season. They're not going to put up anything close to 43 on MUC

2) Yes, Hartwick's defense improved, but come on. We're talking a team in MUC who is averaging 47 points a game. They'll gash Wick. Kimic would run for 400 yards

I think it was a general statement about the O and D, not really a comparison against MUC.  No one from Wick doubts that MUC is the real deal and that it would take a miracle of epic proportions to go into Alliance and pull off something resembling a victory....that doesn't mean it wouldn't be funner then hell to try...

I'm with you there. It was fun to watch IC throw the kitchen sink at them too. Sadly, I just don't think that's going to be the case

It may not be...but would LOVE the chance...

I feel like this is like three weeks ago when we were debating the Wick like this. Lol. All we need are some SJF guys to point out that they almost beat Salisbury and destroyed IC and we'd be back in October!!

I dont think we'll be hearing from any SJF guys for a while. lol, im such a trouble maker.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 12:53:40 AM
As much as I'd like to see them in for conference reasons, I don't think Hartwick deserves a bid. That Springfield loss, to me, is the nail in the proverbial coffin. You just can't get whipped like that by a team with a terrible record. You Hartwick guys keep saying "Hartwick has as good of an argument as any of the other East Region teams," so let's hear why Hartwick should make it in over RPI, Rowan and Montclair (I definitely think the latter two should be taken over Hartwick).

Here's my best guess how this shakes out:

1- MUC
2- Ithaca
3- Hobart
4- Cortland
5- Imported Team
6- Plymouth St.
7- Lycoming
8- Montclair St.

This way, the committee could send Lycoming to MUC (#1 vs #7) and Montclair to Ithaca (#2 vs #8).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 16, 2008, 01:19:36 AM
What if Husson were 9-0 overall?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 16, 2008, 01:29:43 AM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 12:53:40 AM
As much as I'd like to see them in for conference reasons, I don't think Hartwick deserves a bid. That Springfield loss, to me, is the nail in the proverbial coffin. You just can't get whipped like that by a team with a terrible record. You Hartwick guys keep saying "Hartwick has as good of an argument as any of the other East Region teams," so let's hear why Hartwick should make it in over RPI, Rowan and Montclair (I definitely think the latter two should be taken over Hartwick).

Here's my best guess how this shakes out:

1- MUC
2- Ithaca
3- Hobart
4- Cortland
5- Imported Team
6- Plymouth St.
7- Lycoming
8- Montclair St.

This way, the committee could send Lycoming to MUC (#1 vs #7) and Montclair to Ithaca (#2 vs #8).

why wouldn't you just make Lyco the 8 and Montclair the 7? Who could they import as a 5-seed?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 16, 2008, 01:45:09 AM
Bottom line, if it were down to 1 Pool C selection in the East, and the choices were Hartwick or Curry....It's not even a debate.  Curry gets the nod.  Yes, the NEFC sucks...BUT...Curry has one loss, Hartwick lost to friggin Springfield...AND...Curry beat up hartwick in the playoffs last year, MEANING...du...duh duh....They CAN compete!!!...atleast against Hartwick....but probably not anyone else.

In this scenario, Curry gets a Pool C without question.  If the committee is somehow looking for another, maybe Hartwick enters the debate...but they then lose out to Rowan or Montclair hands down.  Hartwick is going to the ECACs.  Stop debating it.  No one cares about 1 good player and the d3 NCAA committee is not going to go and change their criteria to promote a player.  He'll get his looks at the combine. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 02:29:48 AM
Hartwick will probably not even make it to the board.  Their SoS dropped badly this weekend, and they have no wins against Regionally Ranked Opponents.  Montclair's RRO win against Rowan and Rowan's SoS numbers place those two teams ahead of Hartwick for objective reasons.

Subjective analysis would likely be used to validate this decision -- and looking at the three teams' schedules, I believe that Hartwick's schedule will be considered far inferior to both Rowan's and Monclair's schedules.  I would be shocked if Hartwick found its way onto a final listing tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
Pat and Co. Playoff Projection

East bracket
1. Mount Union
2. Ithaca
3. Cortland State
4. Hobart
5. Wesley (B)
6. Plymouth State
7. Montclair State (C)
8. Lycoming
The East has had seasons before without an unbeaten team. But none of them came a year after Mount Union got moved out to the East as the top seed. And it's time to do it again. First-round pairings here fall right according to the seedings: Lycoming at Mount Union, Montclair State at Ithaca, Plymouth State at Cortland State and Wesley at Hobart.



Logical yes, but Gro has a feeling that the NCAA will subscribe to the criteria like Redswarm has been saying. I mean, it is the criteria.  Gro sees Curry sneaking in at 9-1. Husson is a longer shot.

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...

In his defense, he was responding to my remarks about how Curry might deserve a bid over Hartwick this year becasue of what happened last year.  He tried to make the point that we shouldnt care about last year and if the ncaa did, they might as well care about putting Boltus in the playoffs to showcase him.

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...

In his defense, he was responding to my remarks about how Curry might deserve a bid over Hartwick this year becasue of what happened last year.  He tried to make the point that we shouldnt care about last year and if the ncaa did, they might as well care about putting Boltus in the playoffs to showcase him.

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.

No defending that logic... this isn't the make a wish foundation. The NCAA can't go into the statistics vault and pull the teams with the best passer, rusher, receiver into the playoffs. Hartwick shouldn't have lost to Springfield.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...

In his defense, he was responding to my remarks about how Curry might deserve a bid over Hartwick this year becasue of what happened last year.  He tried to make the point that we shouldnt care about last year and if the ncaa did, they might as well care about putting Boltus in the playoffs to showcase him.

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.

No defending that logic... this isn't the make a wish foundation. The NCAA can't go into the statistics vault and pull the teams with the best passer, rusher, receiver into the playoffs. Hartwick shouldn't have lost to Springfield.

No I think he meant to say that looking at last years games for this years playoff selections would be as stupid as looking at showcaseing Boltus in the playoffs.  They both didnt make sense to him.....I think thats what he was trying to say anyway.....

"Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?
"

Actually, maybe he was sort of suggesting it.  I agree that a keyboard should be smashed upside his face as well....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...

In his defense, he was responding to my remarks about how Curry might deserve a bid over Hartwick this year becasue of what happened last year.  He tried to make the point that we shouldnt care about last year and if the ncaa did, they might as well care about putting Boltus in the playoffs to showcase him.

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.

No defending that logic... this isn't the make a wish foundation. The NCAA can't go into the statistics vault and pull the teams with the best passer, rusher, receiver into the playoffs. Hartwick shouldn't have lost to Springfield.

No I think he meant to say that looking at last years games for this years playoff selections would be as stupid as looking at showcaseing Boltus in the playoffs.  They both didnt make sense to him.....I think thats what he was trying to say anyway.....

"Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?
"

Actually, maybe he was sort of suggesting it.  I agree that a keyboard should be smashed upside his face as well....

Ok ok, it was all fun and games.

I still want all Hartwick fans to bash themselves in the face with the nearest heavy object.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2008, 10:56:50 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.




It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...

In his defense, he was responding to my remarks about how Curry might deserve a bid over Hartwick this year becasue of what happened last year.  He tried to make the point that we shouldnt care about last year and if the ncaa did, they might as well care about putting Boltus in the playoffs to showcase him.

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.

No defending that logic... this isn't the make a wish foundation. The NCAA can't go into the statistics vault and pull the teams with the best passer, rusher, receiver into the playoffs. Hartwick shouldn't have lost to Springfield.

No I think he meant to say that looking at last years games for this years playoff selections would be as stupid as looking at showcaseing Boltus in the playoffs.  They both didnt make sense to him.....I think thats what he was trying to say anyway.....

"Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?
"

Actually, maybe he was sort of suggesting it.  I agree that a keyboard should be smashed upside his face as well....

Ok ok, it was all fun and games.

I still want all Hartwick fans to bash themselves in the face with the nearest heavy object.

Dude Wick sucks and should not have lost to Springfield. What pisses me off most about them is that I could never, ever, imagine giving a bid to an NEFC team over an e8 team, but when Wick lost to Curry last year and embarrassed us all it makes me think maybe Curry should go instead? **** why have Hartwick go and get their ass handed to them? Personally I think Boltus and Phelan deserve to go but in the end they are a team and have not done what it takes to get to the show. End of discussion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 16, 2008, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
Pat and Co. Playoff Projection

East bracket
1. Mount Union
2. Ithaca
3. Cortland State
4. Hobart
5. Wesley (B)
6. Plymouth State
7. Montclair State (C)
8. Lycoming
The East has had seasons before without an unbeaten team. But none of them came a year after Mount Union got moved out to the East as the top seed. And it's time to do it again. First-round pairings here fall right according to the seedings: Lycoming at Mount Union, Montclair State at Ithaca, Plymouth State at Cortland State and Wesley at Hobart.



Logical yes, but Gro has a feeling that the NCAA will subscribe to the criteria like Redswarm has been saying. I mean, it is the criteria.  Gro sees Curry sneaking in at 9-1. Husson is a longer shot.

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

TGP thinks it's a bum rap if Hobart ends up with a game vs. Wesley.  Hobart deserves a 3 seed and Cortland the 4.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 11:12:38 AM
Quote from: TGP on November 16, 2008, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
Pat and Co. Playoff Projection

East bracket
1. Mount Union
2. Ithaca
3. Cortland State
4. Hobart
5. Wesley (B)
6. Plymouth State
7. Montclair State (C)
8. Lycoming
The East has had seasons before without an unbeaten team. But none of them came a year after Mount Union got moved out to the East as the top seed. And it's time to do it again. First-round pairings here fall right according to the seedings: Lycoming at Mount Union, Montclair State at Ithaca, Plymouth State at Cortland State and Wesley at Hobart.



Logical yes, but Gro has a feeling that the NCAA will subscribe to the criteria like Redswarm has been saying. I mean, it is the criteria.  Gro sees Curry sneaking in at 9-1. Husson is a longer shot.

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

TGP thinks it's a bum rap if Hobart ends up with a game vs. Wesley.  Hobart deserves a 3 seed and Cortland the 4.

I think you could see these matchups

Mt. Union/Lycoming
Plymouth/Ithaca
Cortland/Hobart
Montclair/Wesley
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 16, 2008, 11:18:05 AM
that makes a lot of sense (from minimizing travel perspective). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 16, 2008, 11:40:01 AM
  TGP,
How do you see Hobart as the higher seed?   SOS was not as strong as Cortland's correct?   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 11:55:55 AM
Yea Hobart and Cortland are tough to seperate. 

On one hand, maybe Cortlands league schedule was overatted this year.

On the other hand, Cortland didn't lose to any average teams like Hobart did.

Maybe Cortland loses another game if they are in the LL?  But could Hobart go undefeated in the NJAC and beat a tough nonleague team (Ithaca) that they didnt have to play?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 16, 2008, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 16, 2008, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
Pat and Co. Playoff Projection

East bracket
1. Mount Union
2. Ithaca
3. Cortland State
4. Hobart
5. Wesley (B)
6. Plymouth State
7. Montclair State (C)
8. Lycoming
The East has had seasons before without an unbeaten team. But none of them came a year after Mount Union got moved out to the East as the top seed. And it's time to do it again. First-round pairings here fall right according to the seedings: Lycoming at Mount Union, Montclair State at Ithaca, Plymouth State at Cortland State and Wesley at Hobart.



Logical yes, but Gro has a feeling that the NCAA will subscribe to the criteria like Redswarm has been saying. I mean, it is the criteria.  Gro sees Curry sneaking in at 9-1. Husson is a longer shot.

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

TGP thinks it's a bum rap if Hobart ends up with a game vs. Wesley.  Hobart deserves a 3 seed and Cortland the 4.

I don't see how Hobart seeds higher than Cortland.  Cortland wins on


In the Regional Rankings--Double Secret Probation Edition, Ithaca, Montclair St., Rowan, and I'm guessing even RPI are all ranked.  Cortland has two positive "results" v. RROs, Hobart has only one.

The only thing that favors Hobart is the "last 25% of the season" fudge factor.  But I don't see that overcoming a deficit in four primary criteria.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 12:05:14 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 16, 2008, 11:40:01 AM
  TGP,
How do you see Hobart as the higher seed?   SOS was not as strong as Cortland's correct?   

I agree, Cortland should be ranked ahead of Hobart. Initially, I thought Hobart would be ranked ahead of Cortland due to the Law of Recency. But looking at the season as a whole, Cortland deserves to be ranked ahead of Hobart. The only question now becomes if the committee wants to set up Cortland-Ithaca II in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they slip Wesley in there as #3 to keep that from happening.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 12:15:07 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 12:05:14 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 16, 2008, 11:40:01 AM
  TGP,
How do you see Hobart as the higher seed?   SOS was not as strong as Cortland's correct?   

I agree, Cortland should be ranked ahead of Hobart. Initially, I thought Hobart would be ranked ahead of Cortland due to the Law of Recency. But looking at the season as a whole, Cortland deserves to be ranked ahead of Hobart. The only question now becomes if the committee wants to set up Cortland-Ithaca II in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they slip Wesley in there as #3 to keep that from happening.

Forget that.  Make it happen committee!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 16, 2008, 01:08:58 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:46:36 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:41:12 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2008, 10:15:45 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 10:09:04 AM

To whomever said the NCAA would pick Hartwick so we could see Boltus play another game(s)... take your keyboard or entire laptop and bash youself in the face. That is the dumbest thing Gro has ever heard.

It is a Hartwick fan, so its really not a surprise...

In his defense, he was responding to my remarks about how Curry might deserve a bid over Hartwick this year becasue of what happened last year.  He tried to make the point that we shouldnt care about last year and if the ncaa did, they might as well care about putting Boltus in the playoffs to showcase him.

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.

No defending that logic... this isn't the make a wish foundation. The NCAA can't go into the statistics vault and pull the teams with the best passer, rusher, receiver into the playoffs. Hartwick shouldn't have lost to Springfield.

No I think he meant to say that looking at last years games for this years playoff selections would be as stupid as looking at showcaseing Boltus in the playoffs.  They both didnt make sense to him.....I think thats what he was trying to say anyway.....

"Here is another idea...shot in the dark...besides playing in a brutal E8 and finishing second, if you are the committee, why in the world would you not want to promote a QB like Boltus that may get a shot at the NFL?  If we are going to use criteria like what happened "last year", then why not go for the "good of the game" selection?
"

Actually, maybe he was sort of suggesting it.  I agree that a keyboard should be smashed upside his face as well....

Ok ok, it was all fun and games.

I still want all Hartwick fans to bash themselves in the face with the nearest heavy object.

I wrote the part about showcasing Boltus...and it was only to prove a point about using last year as criteria for this years NCAA choices.

I don't think it is a clear cut case for Curry over last year.  Curry didn't even make their conference championship game this year.  It was like a few years back when Oklahoma went to the NC game and didnt even make it to their conference championship game...I don't think it made any sense.

We may make it, we may not...clearly if we had done our job against SC we wouldn't be having this conversation.  It doesn't mean I don't think we have a strong arguement to go.

I won't smash myself in the face with the laptop either.  I will save that for Upstate...man is he one angy dude right now...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 16, 2008, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 16, 2008, 11:40:01 AM
  TGP,
How do you see Hobart as the higher seed?   SOS was not as strong as Cortland's correct?   

hard to say.  njac doesn't look any better (maybe even worse than the LL).  hobart won it's out of conference games (vs. Dickinson and CMU).  cortland lost theirs. 

at this point, it's all symantics anyway.  only way we'll know for sure is if bart and cortland play in the first round - which may be possible actually.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 01:58:00 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 10:38:27 AM
...

In other thoughts, JU is looking at Del Val as a possible sneak into the NCAAs?  I mean, they have 2 high quality wins and only 2 d3 losses.
:)

Most accurately, a high quality win is a win over a Regionally Ranked opponent.

DelValley may have a win over Wesley, but surely Albright has dropped out of the Regional Rankings.  If Lycoming has jumped into the East, then the record versus RRO is 1-1, and there are lots of teams ahead of them in the Regional Rankings.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 02:03:39 PM
I still wonder about the NJAC since the top teams didn't play anyone of note out of conference, other than Cortaca, and we know how that went.  Not putting down Cortland, or the NJAC, but how do you not reevaluate the entire conference and possibly bump either Montclair or Rowan out of the regional rankings when the only one of the three who didn't lose yesterday was the team who didn't play (Rowan).  Montclair gets credit for beating Rowan, but then what has Rowan done, this year, with two losses, that keeps them in the regional rankings.  They appear to be caught in a virtuous circle that benefits all three (Cortland, Montclair and Rowan), but if one were to drop (how do you drop Montclair out, but keep Rowan in based on head to head) out, then Cortland is 1-1 vs. RRO and Bart is 1-0 (assuming RPI stays in, but I suppose that's up in the air now).  Rowan beat 7-3 (NEFC) Bridgewater and Montclair beat 4-6 Wilkes in non-conference.  

I'd say that if Montclair and Rowan remain regionally ranked, then Cortland stays ahead by the rules.  Really all that tells us is that there is more dispersion/less parity in the NJAC than in the LL, but little else.  Such is the nature of a 10 team conference.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 16, 2008, 02:06:28 PM
I can't remember.  The bracket is at 3pm on ESPNews?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 16, 2008, 02:06:28 PM
I can't remember.  The bracket is at 3pm on ESPNews?

Correct.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 02:11:55 PM
We have seen SUNY Morrisville looking at the NEAC as a conference home.  If they leave the NJAC as a football affiliate, it would open up more dates for Salisbury, Frostburg and Wesley, which are in-region opponents for the New Jersey schools.  

Maybe that might be the difference that the NJAC needs.  The ACFC will need games, and the New Jersey schools need opponents.  Playing an ACFC school will help the OWP/OOWP more than adding a 0-10/1-9/2-8 Morrisville to the OWP/OOWP.  Ten-team conferences just get no chance to augment the OWP/OOWP on out-of-conference in-region foes.

If DePauw earns the Pool C bid, then it was the chance to play (IMHO) a dramatically weaker Wabash and "beef-up" the OWP on the Little Giants.  IMHO, DePauw was not the second best team in the SCAC, by a long shot.   But, the Wabash win made the difference.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 02:14:37 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 12:15:07 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 12:05:14 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 16, 2008, 11:40:01 AM
  TGP,
How do you see Hobart as the higher seed?   SOS was not as strong as Cortland's correct?   

I agree, Cortland should be ranked ahead of Hobart. Initially, I thought Hobart would be ranked ahead of Cortland due to the Law of Recency. But looking at the season as a whole, Cortland deserves to be ranked ahead of Hobart. The only question now becomes if the committee wants to set up Cortland-Ithaca II in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they slip Wesley in there as #3 to keep that from happening.

Forget that.  Make it happen committee!!!

Of course you want it to happen. You don't want to have that taste in your mouth for 12 months, do you?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 16, 2008, 02:24:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 02:11:55 PM
We have seen SUNY Morrisville looking at the NEAC as a conference home.  If they leave the NJAC as a football affiliate, it would open up more dates for Salisbury, Frostburg and Wesley, which are in-region opponents for the New Jersey schools.  


Is that true Ralph?  Is there a story/discussion about this on D3?  I'd like to see 1 more open game for Cortland, except for the fact that we always have had trouble filling a schedule.  Morrisville is not living up to expectations and may be bringing the SOS down for the NJAC.  Could you see Wesley jumping to the NJAC and becoming an Eastern Region school?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 02:30:28 PM
Frank,

  For your show tonight, can you ask the committee member when dropping an out of region Pool B or Pool C (or even a non-#1 Pool A) into a bracket, how they seed those teams?  For example, JCU in 2002 was a 7.  Since there's no basis for comparing RRO from different regions and you probably don't have a lot of data, it seems like a tough deal. 

  Another example, Wesley or Case probably don't deserve to be a 7 or 8 in the East, but given that there is little to go on, how do you give a non-#1 a higher seed than that?  General "wisdom" is that Wesley is a very good, top 15 team, but they do have a loss to an eastern team not going to the playoffs (not sure if Del Val would be regionally ranked at the end).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 02:30:28 PM
Frank,

  For your show tonight, can you ask the committee member when dropping an out of region Pool B or Pool C (or even a non-#1 Pool A) into a bracket, how they seed those teams?  For example, JCU in 2002 was a 7.  Since there's no basis for comparing RRO from different regions and you probably don't have a lot of data, it seems like a tough deal. 

  Another example, Wesley or Case probably don't deserve to be a 7 or 8 in the East, but given that there is little to go on, how do you give a non-#1 a higher seed than that?  General "wisdom" is that Wesley is a very good, top 15 team, but they do have a loss to an eastern team not going to the playoffs (not sure if Del Val would be regionally ranked at the end).

Sure, but it'd be helpful if you come into the chatroom and drop a reminder for me during the show.  Mr. Kaiser will join us at 7:50pm.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 02:42:27 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 16, 2008, 02:24:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 02:11:55 PM
We have seen SUNY Morrisville looking at the NEAC as a conference home.  If they leave the NJAC as a football affiliate, it would open up more dates for Salisbury, Frostburg and Wesley, which are in-region opponents for the New Jersey schools.  


Is that true Ralph?  Is there a story/discussion about this on D3?  I'd like to see 1 more open game for Cortland, except for the fact that we always have had trouble filling a schedule.  Morrisville is not living up to expectations and may be bringing the SOS down for the NJAC.  Could you see Wesley jumping to the NJAC and becoming an Eastern Region school?
SUNY-Morrisville and the NEAC (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3755.msg975738#msg975738)

Post #296 NEAC Men's Board (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=1568.285)

See this post and Pat Coleman's follow-up post on SUNY-Morrisville.

I don't want to spread a rumor about this, and I still have not seen corroboration of this, but I will watch for this.

(If I have gotten the "cart before the horse", then I apologize.)

Please remember that SUNY-Cobleskill is aligning with the NEAC.

As for Wesley, I don't know that program that well to speculate.  My musings on that part of the world are more like "outside analysis" and "on-the-scene consulting".  What is working?  What is not?  Wesley moved to the Captial AC for all other sports.  The Wesley President must look at the entire program.  I think that Wesley can fill the games that they need with the open dates that arise in the 9-game conference schedule.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 03:06:14 PM
CURRY!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2008, 03:07:17 PM
updates please?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 16, 2008, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 03:06:14 PM
CURRY!!

Who DAT gon beat Curry who dat?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 03:06:14 PM
CURRY!!

Wow...Ithaca/Curry.................Plymouth/Cortland
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 03:08:11 PM
Mount Union/ Randolph Macon

Lycoming/Hobart

Plymouth State/Cortland

Ithaca/Curry aka Dem Spicy Boyz

not sure about home teams must be MUC, Bart, Cortland, Ithaca.

PC's on the phone with the ESPN guy... ESPN guy just likes naming the mascots.
Guy: Lycoming... the WARRIORS... what about them Pat?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 16, 2008, 03:08:25 PM
MUC Randolph Macon
Bart Lyco
Cortland Plymouth
Ithaca Curry
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 03:09:58 PM
Looks like IC is going to have to whip Cortland's tail for a second time to get a shot at MUC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:12:15 PM
Plymouth and Curry.....neither one the #8 seed...........very weak bracket.....Cortland/Ithaca second round matchup should be interesting.....I also like 'Barts matchup with Lyco......go 'Bart.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2008, 03:12:37 PM
6 teams from the East got in and 2 are from the NEFC?? WTF!!  At least MUC gets to beat up on team from a different region first.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:14:01 PM
KMack's school gets to 'enjoy' the MUC experience.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BomberJeff on November 16, 2008, 03:15:15 PM
That jumped out at me too pg04: an east-region matchup that features no east teams.  Interesting decision (and one that I can live with).

I'm really suprised at the decision with Curry.  I thought not going into the conference championship game would have raised a red flag, but apparently not.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 16, 2008, 03:17:36 PM
RPI, Wick, or Montclair should have made it over Curry...a team that didn't even make its own conference championship game...

How does Randolph Macon get moved to the East?  Two teams out of region moved to the East?  Bad form overall...the East is the weakest bracket by a long shot...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 16, 2008, 03:18:11 PM
Two NEFC teams is bogus.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 03:19:58 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 16, 2008, 03:17:36 PM
RPI, Wick, or Montclair should have made it over Curry...a team that didn't even make its own conference championship game...

How does Randolph Macon get moved to the East?  Two teams out of region moved to the East?  Bad form overall...the East is the weakest bracket by a long shot...

How should Hartwick have made it over Curry? Please explain that to me beyond "they didn't make their own conference championship game." They had a better record than Hartwick and didn't lose to a 3-win team. I'd love to agree with you Yanks, but I think you're wrong there. Rowan and Montclair have the beefs with Curry's inclusion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:20:34 PM
Well Curry's only loss was to Plymouth at 10-1.  I guess them beating the E8 2007 champ last year in Hartwick was a decider for the NCAA.

Last year I thought that 3 from the E8 was over the top.

Remember Curry is in an 18 team league.  
So by those standards the Ithaca loss to STJ Fish would have knocked them out of the E8 championship.
And in fact IC is pretty good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 03:20:51 PM
Brackets:

http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/footballbracket2008.pdf
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 16, 2008, 03:22:07 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 16, 2008, 03:19:58 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 16, 2008, 03:17:36 PM
RPI, Wick, or Montclair should have made it over Curry...a team that didn't even make its own conference championship game...

How does Randolph Macon get moved to the East?  Two teams out of region moved to the East?  Bad form overall...the East is the weakest bracket by a long shot...

How should Hartwick have made it over Curry? Please explain that to me beyond "they didn't make their own conference championship game." They had a better record than Hartwick and didn't lose to a 3-win team. I'd love to agree with you Yanks, but I think you're wrong there. Rowan and Montclair have the beefs with Curry's inclusion.

I just think two teams from a weak conference is bogus...that is all.  I think the second place team in a strong conference should get in...in this case Wick, RPI, Montclair, or Rowan...especially with moving over a team from the South to the East...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: JT on November 16, 2008, 03:18:11 PM
Two NEFC teams is bogus.

#6 Plymouth
#7 Curry
#8 Rudolph Macon

Those last 2 bids seem to have been WIDE open......teams didn't take care of business down the stretch and left the door open for something like this to happen....I have a feeling we are going to see more monkey's with cell phones and kickball's posted by JU in 2 weeks!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 03:27:59 PM
I guess we'll find out later, but I think RM got moved in because the East was challenging this year and RM was one of the weaker Pool A's in a very deep south, so why not send them to Mt Union (ala NCAA Basketball 1-64).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2008, 03:28:43 PM
Perhaps it is weak but the reality is that no one took care of business.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:29:06 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 03:27:59 PM
I guess we'll find out later, but I think RM got moved in because the East was challenging this year and RM was one of the weaker Pool A's in a very deep south, so why not send them to Mt Union (ala NCAA Basketball 1-64).


Agreed......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 16, 2008, 03:29:43 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: JT on November 16, 2008, 03:18:11 PM
Two NEFC teams is bogus.

#6 Plymouth
#7 Curry
#8 Rudolph Macon

Those last 2 bids seem to have been WIDE open......teams didn't take care of business down the stretch and left the door open for something like this to happen....I have a feeling we are going to see more monkey's with cell phones and kickball's posted by JU in 2 weeks!!!

I figured that one NJAC team was going to falter.  Both Montclair and Cortland have that in their DNA.  I wasn't expecting both to f*ck up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 03:35:03 PM
D3Football.com's Selection Show Special is broadcasting:

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2008/01/14/1571/post-selection-selection-show.html

or directly into Windows Media Player:

http://win.1.c2.audiovideoweb.com/1c2winlive6881
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
When you just throw out the term weak in reference to the NEFC.... that is exactly what the NCAA feels about the East.
The entire east needs to get off it high horse and realize the nation has caught up.
The last eastern champion was IC in 91.. none of these teams from these "strong" conferences have really come close... yes the Rowan teams gave us a nice run.  RPI a few years back was nice but unsustained.
The St. John Fisher v MUC three years ago was a surprise.  Once the Mount really prepared for STJ Fish they crushed the cardinal.

The number one thing holding back the east is that most of the schools are private and massively expensive.  Since prop 91 ( no financial aid to special talents) the east has had a hard time.  

So yea, the Weak NEFC got in two but everyone else got beat.  RPI needed to beat Kings Point but got stung.

Odd year
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:50 PM
So many teams did not take care of business this year in their respective divisions and I think a possible result is two NEFC teams. I think it is absolute bull**** that freakin Curry got in over Montclair and Rowan. Yet we will see just how poor the decision was after next week. I for one am excited to see Curry play. I hope Grassdorf and Co ****ing stomp them into oblivion. Many said this year that Wicks two losses to NEFC teams last year was last year and should be forgotton. Bull****, because I believe those two losses gave a false sense of validity regarding the NEFC. I also believe the loss to Curry gave some confidence to those who selected them ahead of the aforementioned teams. Who knows maybe they will deserve it? We shall see next week. I have to say I highly doubt it though. Let's go Bart, Bombers and Red Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2008, 03:42:27 PM
I believe that the team with the biggest beef, according to what we thought was the criteria is Montclair.  I don't know how an NEFC team got in over NJAC...  They really must just look at wins and losses first...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 16, 2008, 03:43:02 PM
Hopefully Ithaca takes care of business and makes the regional final.  Looking forward to another MUC/Ithaca matchup because MUC needs a test somewhere along the line before Salem ;D.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 03:48:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 03:35:03 PM
D3Football.com's Selection Show Special is broadcasting:

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2008/01/14/1571/post-selection-selection-show.html

or directly into Windows Media Player:

http://win.1.c2.audiovideoweb.com/1c2winlive6881


ah I missed that opening music from playmakers... I AM!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 16, 2008, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM

The number one thing holding back the east is that most of the schools are private and massively expensive.  Since prop 91 ( no financial aid to special talents) the east has had a hard time.  



That could be a problem.  But I think the bigger problem is the sheer number of D3 teams competing for talent in the same area.  

Back in 88-91 when IC, Union, and Cortland were true national powerhouses, there was no Utica, Fisher was not relevant, Morrisville was JC, Hartwick had no program, RPI was still weak, and Hobart was mediocre.  Take the best players off of the teams I just mentioned, divide them up between Cortland, IC, and Union, and we will have 3 national powers from NY again.  There are just too many teams dividing the talent up here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:51:04 PM
Just for fun for those that feel entitled for their teams making the NCAA's

Here is the boxscore from the Rowan (8-2 overall) v Bridgewater State (7-3 overall) game on Sept 6th.

does not seem like a bad matchup at all

Actually if you pull the score off the boxscore you would think BSU wins.
Look at the first downs.
Look at the third down conversions.
Rowan punted 7 times.

Many have their heads in the sand on this thing.
Montclair got beat by a good Kean Team.
Kean crushed Kings Point in Sept.
Kings Point beats RPI.
It is all a big circle.

Read the boxscore below:
                  Team Statistics (Final)
                       2008 NCAA Division III Football
   Rowan University vs Bridgewater State (Sep 06, 2008 at Bridgewater, MA)

                                   ROW      BSC

FIRST DOWNS...................       13       18
 Rushing.....................        9        4
 Passing.....................        3       10
 Penalty.....................        1        4
NET YARDS RUSHING.............      147       67
 Rushing Attempts............       42       39
 Average Per Rush............      3.5      1.7
 Rushing Touchdowns..........        1        1
 Yards Gained Rushing........      172      119
 Yards Lost Rushing..........       25       52
NET YARDS PASSING.............       87      223
 Completions-Attempts-Int....   8-18-0  13-34-2
 Average Per Attempt.........      4.8      6.6
 Average Per Completion......     10.9     17.2
 Passing Touchdowns..........        2        1
TOTAL OFFENSE YARDS...........      234      290
 Total offense plays.........       60       73
 Average Gain Per Play.......      3.9      4.0
Fumbles: Number-Lost..........      1-0      4-2
Penalties: Number-Yards.......     6-76     5-30
PUNTS-YARDS...................    7-261    5-143
 Average Yards Per Punt......     37.3     28.6
 Net Yards Per Punt..........     30.9     26.4
 Inside 20...................        1        1
 50+ Yards...................        0        0
 Touchbacks..................        0        0
 Fair catch..................        1        0
KICKOFFS-YARDS................    4-273    2-106
 Average Yards Per Kickoff...     68.2     53.0
 Net Yards Per Kickoff.......     49.0     19.0
 Touchbacks..................        1        0
Punt returns: Number-Yards-TD.   2-11-0   5-45-0
 Average Per Return..........      5.5      9.0
Kickoff returns: Number-Yds-TD   2-68-0   3-57-0
 Average Per Return..........     34.0     19.0
Interceptions: Number-Yds-TD..    2-0-0    0-0-0
Fumble Returns: Number-Yds-TD.    0-0-0    0-0-0
Miscellaneous Yards...........        0        0
Possession Time...............    28:17    31:43
 1st Quarter.................     5:55     9:05
 2nd Quarter.................     7:33     7:27
 3rd Quarter.................     4:54    10:06
 4th Quarter.................     9:55     5:05
Third-Down Conversions........  3 of 13  9 of 18
Fourth-Down Conversions.......   1 of 2   1 of 2
Red-Zone Scores-Chances.......      3-4      1-3
Sacks By: Number-Yards........     5-29     3-21
PAT Kicks.....................      3-3      2-2
Field Goals...................      1-2      0-1

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:55:35 PM
A few interesting questions about 'Dem Spicy Boys....

You have to figure that Curry felt their season was over 8 days ago.

Question 1....have they been practicing over the past 9 days?? (probably so)

Question 2....how spirited could those practices have been??  

I have a feeling that DSB were probably just going through the motions feeling that there was a really good chance the season was done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: vttanker on November 16, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
When you just throw out the term weak in reference to the NEFC.... that is exactly what the NCAA feels about the East.
The entire east needs to get off it high horse and realize the nation has caught up.
The last eastern champion was IC in 91.. none of these teams from these "strong" conferences have really come close... yes the Rowan teams gave us a nice run.  RPI a few years back was nice but unsustained.
The St. John Fisher v MUC three years ago was a surprise.  Once the Mount really prepared for STJ Fish they crushed the cardinal.

The number one thing holding back the east is that most of the schools are private and massively expensive.  Since prop 91 ( no financial aid to special talents) the east has had a hard time.  

So yea, the Weak NEFC got in two but everyone else got beat.  RPI needed to beat Kings Point but got stung.

Odd year

mel, I don't thin it's the cost of the schools so much as the density of the schools.  Mount Union is a private school that will run you over $30 grand a year.  For example, in Worcester, Mass there are three schools all near each other (Becker, WPI, Worcester State) and a whole bunch close by.  That's a talent drain.  I don't know if that is the real problem, but it doesn't help those teams get better. 

Though I'm an NEFC fan I'm surprised that Curry got it.  More so because no other non-AQ team from the East got it.  By putting Mount Union in the East they're saying the East isn't even good enough to have their own #1 team.  If anything you would think that since Mount Union has to be the best team in the North that they should seed #1 out there and some other team could have been the #1 in the East, even from the North.  This is what happens when the NCAA is engineering what they want for the final four.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 05:12:18 PM
Tonight on "In the HuddLLe," we have a very special show planned.  Joining Frank Rossi and Eric Ren will be:

- NCAA Division III Football Championships Committee Chairman and Defiance Athletic Director Dick Kaiser, to discuss the selection process used to arrive at this year's "Field of 32" released just a little while ago;

- Liberty League Commissioner Timothy Danehy, who will voice his thoughts on the 2008 Liberty League regular season, the selection process and the playoff teams of the League;

- Hobart Fifth-Year Senior Linebacker Jeff Sanders, whose team will make its fifth consecutive NCAA Playoffs appearance next weekend;

- Hobart Head Coach Mike Cragg, who is already hard at work learning exactly who Lycoming is and what got them to the success they've enjoyed this season; and

- Hobart Guru James Baker, who will give us his thoughts and predictions regarding next week's games involving Liberty League teams, including potential ECAC Bowl berths.

Please join us at 7:30pm EST and ask questions for any of our guests in the chatroom.  The link is at http://blogtalkradio.com/LLRecap -- It should be a great show!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 06:24:23 PM
Cortland needs to take care of business at home and then its a dream matchup 20 years later. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HURFMUC on November 16, 2008, 06:47:02 PM
Mounts the closest team to the East thats why the other #1 seed is in the north region
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 07:06:33 PM
Quick question.  If IC and Cortland get by their first round matchups will Cortaca tickets be easier to get with the student bodies on vacation and the fact that money would have to be paid for every ticket rather then students getting free ones or will the tickets get that much harder to get?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
If any of you east guys are interested, you're more than welcome to join our OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest. 

Here's a small taste to peek your interest:

EAST REGION

#8 RANDOLPH-MACON (+54.5) at #1 MOUNT UNION

#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART

#6 PLYMOUTH ST. (+30.5) at #3 CORTLAND ST.

#7 CURRY (+35.5) at #2 ITHACA
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
Wow Coach, that's a lot of confidence in Bart.  I like it.  We'll try to cover the spread.  What's the spread on a MUC-Hobart game? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2008, 07:47:44 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM


#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART


LOL...+17.5?? Has hscoach seen Hobart this year? Nothing personal but the last 2 weeks haven't exactly been an offensive juggernaut up there in Geneva. If hobart wins this game, it's less then 8 points.

phone it in
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 16, 2008, 07:51:09 PM
Yeah, its actually a good matchup.  If Doyle is healthy and the weather is reasonable, Bart could probably get some points through the air.  Vincent has been a beast the last four weeks doing everything he can. 

Based on what I'm seeing, I think Bart can shut them down though. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 16, 2008, 07:55:22 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 07:06:33 PM
Quick question.  If IC and Cortland get by their first round matchups will Cortaca tickets be easier to get with the student bodies on vacation and the fact that money would have to be paid for every ticket rather then students getting free ones or will the tickets get that much harder to get?

Much easier. Besides all the things you mentioned, most IC students don't even know the football team plays other games besides the "official" Cortaca. DAMN I wish I could be there......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
If any of you east guys are interested, you're more than welcome to join our OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest. 

Here's a small taste to peek your interest:

EAST REGION

#8 RANDOLPH-MACON (+54.5) at #1 MOUNT UNION

#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART

#6 PLYMOUTH ST. (+30.5) at #3 CORTLAND ST.

#7 CURRY (+35.5) at #2 ITHACA


Give me every dog 'cept Randolph Duke

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.movieactors.com%2Ffreezes1%2FTradingPlaces23.jpeg&hash=e0fb361007c32bee55e14c665213685507b8a1d5)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2008, 08:11:12 PM
"turn those machines back on"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 16, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
When you just throw out the term weak in reference to the NEFC.... that is exactly what the NCAA feels about the East.
The entire east needs to get off it high horse and realize the nation has caught up.
The last eastern champion was IC in 91.. none of these teams from these "strong" conferences have really come close... yes the Rowan teams gave us a nice run.  RPI a few years back was nice but unsustained.
The St. John Fisher v MUC three years ago was a surprise.  Once the Mount really prepared for STJ Fish they crushed the cardinal.

The number one thing holding back the east is that most of the schools are private and massively expensive.  Since prop 91 ( no financial aid to special talents) the east has had a hard time.  

So yea, the Weak NEFC got in two but everyone else got beat.  RPI needed to beat Kings Point but got stung.

Odd year

mel, I don't thin it's the cost of the schools so much as the density of the schools.  Mount Union is a private school that will run you over $30 grand a year.  For example, in Worcester, Mass there are three schools all near each other (Becker, WPI, Worcester State) and a whole bunch close by.  That's a talent drain.  I don't know if that is the real problem, but it doesn't help those teams get better. 

Though I'm an NEFC fan I'm surprised that Curry got it.  More so because no other non-AQ team from the East got it.  By putting Mount Union in the East they're saying the East isn't even good enough to have their own #1 team.  If anything you would think that since Mount Union has to be the best team in the North that they should seed #1 out there and some other team could have been the #1 in the East, even from the North.  This is what happens when the NCAA is engineering what they want for the final four.

No way a kid looking at WPI is also looking at Worcester State.....I know what you are attempting to say, but this argument is miserably flawed.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2008, 08:13:23 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 07:06:33 PM
Quick question.  If IC and Cortland get by their first round matchups will Cortaca tickets be easier to get with the student bodies on vacation and the fact that money would have to be paid for every ticket rather then students getting free ones or will the tickets get that much harder to get?

From my understanding, it wasn't that big a deal in 1988, and Ithaca was a bigger powerhouse then. I'd imagine you wouldn't have a big problem, although I'd suspect tickets may only be available at the gates. I'm not totally sure, since it's been awhile since we were hosting
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: realistic on November 16, 2008, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2008, 08:13:23 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 16, 2008, 07:06:33 PM
Quick question.  If IC and Cortland get by their first round matchups will Cortaca tickets be easier to get with the student bodies on vacation and the fact that money would have to be paid for every ticket rather then students getting free ones or will the tickets get that much harder to get?

From my understanding, it wasn't that big a deal in 1988, and Ithaca was a bigger powerhouse then. I'd imagine you wouldn't have a big problem, although I'd suspect tickets may only be available at the gates. I'm not totally sure, since it's been awhile since we were hosting

with neither student body on campus, I would guess it would be empty....or pretty close to it.

Realistic will be there, if it falls that way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 16, 2008, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 16, 2008, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 16, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
When you just throw out the term weak in reference to the NEFC.... that is exactly what the NCAA feels about the East.
The entire east needs to get off it high horse and realize the nation has caught up.
The last eastern champion was IC in 91.. none of these teams from these "strong" conferences have really come close... yes the Rowan teams gave us a nice run.  RPI a few years back was nice but unsustained.
The St. John Fisher v MUC three years ago was a surprise.  Once the Mount really prepared for STJ Fish they crushed the cardinal.

The number one thing holding back the east is that most of the schools are private and massively expensive.  Since prop 91 ( no financial aid to special talents) the east has had a hard time.  

So yea, the Weak NEFC got in two but everyone else got beat.  RPI needed to beat Kings Point but got stung.

Odd year

mel, I don't thin it's the cost of the schools so much as the density of the schools.  Mount Union is a private school that will run you over $30 grand a year.  For example, in Worcester, Mass there are three schools all near each other (Becker, WPI, Worcester State) and a whole bunch close by.  That's a talent drain.  I don't know if that is the real problem, but it doesn't help those teams get better. 

Though I'm an NEFC fan I'm surprised that Curry got it.  More so because no other non-AQ team from the East got it.  By putting Mount Union in the East they're saying the East isn't even good enough to have their own #1 team.  If anything you would think that since Mount Union has to be the best team in the North that they should seed #1 out there and some other team could have been the #1 in the East, even from the North.  This is what happens when the NCAA is engineering what they want for the final four.

No way a kid looking at WPI is also looking at Worcester State.....I know what you are attempting to say, but this argument is miserably flawed.....

good point, but there is like 20 d3 private colleges in the state of ohio.  there are about 20  (if not 200) of those within 5 miles of each other off rt 128 just outside boston.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 16, 2008, 08:54:03 PM
Ok, so the 2 best teams in the East are Cortland and Ithaca this year (sorry 'Bart....I'm pulling for you).

The NEFC's 2 best teams play each.   If the NEFC can play ONE close, I think it's a win for the NEFC.  To win one would truely make a second huge step following the Curry win vs. Hartwick in '07.

To lose both big would make a statement the other way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 09:51:32 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 16, 2008, 08:05:35 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
If any of you east guys are interested, you're more than welcome to join our OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest. 

Here's a small taste to peek your interest:

EAST REGION

#8 RANDOLPH-MACON (+54.5) at #1 MOUNT UNION

#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART

#6 PLYMOUTH ST. (+30.5) at #3 CORTLAND ST.

#7 CURRY (+35.5) at #2 ITHACA


Give me every dog 'cept Randolph Duke

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.movieactors.com%2Ffreezes1%2FTradingPlaces23.jpeg&hash=e0fb361007c32bee55e14c665213685507b8a1d5)

Hobart wins, but by 7... offense is banged up and needs to put together a big game... but might be tough to do in any playoff game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2008, 12:31:18 AM
There are going to be 7 games in the bracket.

My prediction is that only 2 have the possibility to be decided by 20 or less...

Hobart vs. Lycoming

And the eventual Second round Cortaca rematch. 

Real interesting  ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2008, 01:26:30 AM
I have posted a poll asking who you think the 3 East Region Game winners will be (I am giving MUC the victory). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 17, 2008, 02:36:21 AM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
If any of you east guys are interested, you're more than welcome to join our OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest. 

Here's a small taste to peek your interest:

EAST REGION

#8 RANDOLPH-MACON (+54.5) at #1 MOUNT UNION

#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART

#6 PLYMOUTH ST. (+30.5) at #3 CORTLAND ST.

#7 CURRY (+35.5) at #2 ITHACA



No way Hobart crushes Lycoming, just no way.  Lycoming is a good team from a very solid, competitive conference.  Look at how close they played IC.  Honestly, I'm thinking Lycoming will win this game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 17, 2008, 02:43:58 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 17, 2008, 02:36:21 AM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
If any of you east guys are interested, you're more than welcome to join our OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest. 

Here's a small taste to peek your interest:

EAST REGION

#8 RANDOLPH-MACON (+54.5) at #1 MOUNT UNION

#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART

#6 PLYMOUTH ST. (+30.5) at #3 CORTLAND ST.

#7 CURRY (+35.5) at #2 ITHACA



No way Hobart crushes Lycoming, just no way.  Lycoming is a good team from a very solid, competitive conference.  Look at how close they played IC.  Honestly, I'm thinking Lycoming will win this game.

agreed.  17+ is a ridiculous line on that game.  big difference between week 1 and now however.  will provide some stats re: bart-lyco later this week to explain.

regardless, this one will be decided by less than a td.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: vttanker on November 17, 2008, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 16, 2008, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 16, 2008, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: mel on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
When you just throw out the term weak in reference to the NEFC.... that is exactly what the NCAA feels about the East.
The entire east needs to get off it high horse and realize the nation has caught up.
The last eastern champion was IC in 91.. none of these teams from these "strong" conferences have really come close... yes the Rowan teams gave us a nice run.  RPI a few years back was nice but unsustained.
The St. John Fisher v MUC three years ago was a surprise.  Once the Mount really prepared for STJ Fish they crushed the cardinal.

The number one thing holding back the east is that most of the schools are private and massively expensive.  Since prop 91 ( no financial aid to special talents) the east has had a hard time.  

So yea, the Weak NEFC got in two but everyone else got beat.  RPI needed to beat Kings Point but got stung.

Odd year

mel, I don't thin it's the cost of the schools so much as the density of the schools.  Mount Union is a private school that will run you over $30 grand a year.  For example, in Worcester, Mass there are three schools all near each other (Becker, WPI, Worcester State) and a whole bunch close by.  That's a talent drain.  I don't know if that is the real problem, but it doesn't help those teams get better. 

Though I'm an NEFC fan I'm surprised that Curry got it.  More so because no other non-AQ team from the East got it.  By putting Mount Union in the East they're saying the East isn't even good enough to have their own #1 team.  If anything you would think that since Mount Union has to be the best team in the North that they should seed #1 out there and some other team could have been the #1 in the East, even from the North.  This is what happens when the NCAA is engineering what they want for the final four.

No way a kid looking at WPI is also looking at Worcester State.....I know what you are attempting to say, but this argument is miserably flawed.....

If you assume the kid is just looking at football programs, maybe.  But that is far from what really happens.

Below are some real numbers.  Mass had 20 schools that offer D3 football, but not near the population of a PA, IL, or OH.  Ah yes, but WI does good you ask??  Hey I didn't say it was the only reason.  Just one reason. 

State   #Schools   Population   Density
PA   24   12,432,792    518,033
IL   21   12,852,548    612,026
OH   21   11,466,917    546,044
MA   20   6,449,755    322,488
WI   18   5,601,640    311,202
NY   17   11,023,202    648,424
MN   15   5,197,621    346,508
IA   10   2,988,046    298,805
VA   10   7,712,091    771,209
CA   9   36,553,215    4,061,468

There are other factors as well.  Real world, my son plays D3 football and wouldn't go to WPI if he had the choice.  No Men's Lacrosse.  My son plays two sports, loves them both.  School had to offer both, plus an academic program that interested him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 18, 2008, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:55:35 PM
A few interesting questions about 'Dem Spicy Boys....

You have to figure that Curry felt their season was over 8 days ago.

Question 1....have they been practicing over the past 9 days?? (probably so)

Question 2....how spirited could those practices have been??  

I have a feeling that DSB were probably just going through the motions feeling that there was a really good chance the season was done.


I asked this a couple of days ago and it has been asked on other boards as well.....any NEFC guys have any idea on the answer to this?
Title: Dem Spicy Boyz
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 18, 2008, 10:42:17 AM
After not reaching their conference title game, and declining an ECAC bid, did these guys even practice at all last week before they experienced this early Chistmass.  Did they think they stood an outside shot at a Class C bid?  What's the chance that their equipment manager had to re issue all equipment as they thought their season was done.  Any insight on this?  I saw that LewDogg expressed an interest in this and I am sure there are others as well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2008, 11:11:22 AM
You guys gotta fix that poll.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: TheApprentice on November 18, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
Hello All,
New member here, as I've been ridiculed previously this week on the MAC board for my limited posting until now, I apologize, I just recently started reading the boards.

I enjoy the debates and conversation, what catches my eye on this board is the overall agreement that a line of 17.5 set for Hobart and Lycoming is a bit of a stretch. I am a firm believer that statistics can only do so much, and the game must be played to see who the victor will be. Paper is pointless to an extent. However, on common ground, Hobart and Lycoming both played Susquehanna this year. The statistics from that game are pretty dead middle between the teams in their victories over SU. Although the statistics are very very close as to how each team played...Lycoming rushed for slightly more (221 vs. 236), passed for slightly more (149 vs. 196) and out-gained in total yardage (370 vs. 432). Lycoming did throw 3 int's to Hobart's 1. Hobart had 11 penalties for 81 yrds. and Lycoming had 9 for 100 yrds. These stats are, once again, only stats....but I consider it fair to say that Lycoming and Hobart will be a much closer game than 17.5.

As for the home field advantage for Hobart that should be somewhat of an advantage, Lycoming is struggling to play well on same day trips. However, their only over-night away loss came to the Bombers in week 1 by the special teams let down of a blocked extra point (17-16 Ithaca, #12 in D3 football)....As for the possibility of a hostile crowd in Geneva.... Hobart's avg. attendance is only a mere 724 fans per game....on the road Lycoming has played in front of on average 2,102 fans a Saturday on the road.

Special Teams will be a big factor in this weekend's game at Boswell Field.

Good Luck Lyco.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2008, 12:48:42 PM
Quote from: TheApprentice on November 18, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
Hello All,
New member here, as I've been ridiculed previously this week on the MAC board for my limited posting until now, I apologize, I just recently started reading the boards.

I enjoy the debates and conversation, what catches my eye on this board is the overall agreement that a line of 17.5 set for Hobart and Lycoming is a bit of a stretch. I am a firm believer that statistics can only do so much, and the game must be played to see who the victor will be. Paper is pointless to an extent. However, on common ground, Hobart and Lycoming both played Susquehanna this year. The statistics from that game are pretty dead middle between the teams in their victories over SU. Although the statistics are very very close as to how each team played...Lycoming rushed for slightly more (221 vs. 236), passed for slightly more (149 vs. 196) and out-gained in total yardage (370 vs. 432). Lycoming did throw 3 int's to Hobart's 1. Hobart had 11 penalties for 81 yrds. and Lycoming had 9 for 100 yrds. These stats are, once again, only stats....but I consider it fair to say that Lycoming and Hobart will be a much closer game than 17.5.

As for the home field advantage for Hobart that should be somewhat of an advantage, Lycoming is struggling to play well on same day trips. However, their only over-night away loss came to the Bombers in week 1 by the special teams let down of a blocked extra point (17-16 Ithaca, #12 in D3 football)....As for the possibility of a hostile crowd in Geneva.... Hobart's avg. attendance is only a mere 724 fans per game....on the road Lycoming has played in front of on average 2,102 fans a Saturday on the road.

Special Teams will be a big factor in this weekend's game at Boswell Field.

Good Luck Lyco.

As a LL fan, I am pulling hard for Hobart, but really, they haven't shown much to me this year so far other than they are tough, they never give up, and they know how to win.  Talent wise, I don't think they are as strong as teams of the past.  Don't know much about Lyco, but they have a strong history, and i'm sure it will be a great game.  17.5 points is ridiculous.  Hobart just wins, they don't blow anyone out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 18, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
The line was set by a MUC/OAC person so they didn't really have strong insight into either team and take the points on that. 

I don't know if Hobart isn't as talented, but they've been playing without between 3 - 5 starters for much of the season.  The D is strong (including a great secondary that can play man very well), but the offense is a mess, though the receivers are very talented and Tyler Vincent has been hot lately (both in receiving and some clutch punts).  I think Doyle actually had 2 interceptions (and three the week before) and he occasionally throws ill-advised passes, but improved as the season wore on - he's playing with a separated shoulder though. 

I think it'll be like 13 - 10 or something.  No one ever thinks much of Hobart, but they've lost 0 or 1 game in the LL since its inception (also winning a number of non-conference games against solid teams like Alfred, CMU, Dickinson) and has made the NCAA's five straight years running so they are doing something right.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 18, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
The line was set by a MUC/OAC person dumbass so they didn't really have strong insight a clue into either team and take the points on that. 

Fixed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 18, 2008, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 16, 2008, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: JT on November 16, 2008, 03:18:11 PM
Two NEFC teams is bogus.

#6 Plymouth
#7 Curry
#8 Rudolph Macon

Those last 2 bids seem to have been WIDE open......teams didn't take care of business down the stretch and left the door open for something like this to happen....I have a feeling we are going to see more monkey's with cell phones and kickball's posted by JU in 2 weeks!!!

The bid was there for the taking....nobody stepped up and grabbed it by the neck, so the invite went to Curry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 01:19:02 PM
RE: Poll: How could IC and Curry both win?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 18, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 17, 2008, 10:20:01 AM


If you assume the kid is just looking at football programs, maybe.  But that is far from what really happens.

Below are some real numbers.  Mass had 20 schools that offer D3 football, but not near the population of a PA, IL, or OH.  Ah yes, but WI does good you ask??  Hey I didn't say it was the only reason.  Just one reason. 

State   #Schools   Population   Density
PA   24   12,432,792    518,033
IL   21   12,852,548    612,026
OH   21   11,466,917    546,044
MA   20   6,449,755    322,488
WI   18   5,601,640    311,202
NY   17   11,023,202    648,424
MN   15   5,197,621    346,508
IA   10   2,988,046    298,805
VA   10   7,712,091    771,209
CA   9   36,553,215    4,061,468

There are other factors as well.  Real world, my son plays D3 football and wouldn't go to WPI if he had the choice.  No Men's Lacrosse.  My son plays two sports, loves them both.  School had to offer both, plus an academic program that interested him.


Are you sure NY's population is less than OH's?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 18, 2008, 01:35:36 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 18, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 17, 2008, 10:20:01 AM


If you assume the kid is just looking at football programs, maybe.  But that is far from what really happens.

Below are some real numbers.  Mass had 20 schools that offer D3 football, but not near the population of a PA, IL, or OH.  Ah yes, but WI does good you ask??  Hey I didn't say it was the only reason.  Just one reason. 

State   #Schools   Population   Density
PA   24   12,432,792    518,033
IL   21   12,852,548    612,026
OH   21   11,466,917    546,044
MA   20   6,449,755    322,488
WI   18   5,601,640    311,202
NY   17   11,023,202    648,424
MN   15   5,197,621    346,508
IA   10   2,988,046    298,805
VA   10   7,712,091    771,209
CA   9   36,553,215    4,061,468

There are other factors as well.  Real world, my son plays D3 football and wouldn't go to WPI if he had the choice.  No Men's Lacrosse.  My son plays two sports, loves them both.  School had to offer both, plus an academic program that interested him.


Are you sure NY's population is less than OH's?

Taking a guess, I'd say the stats are isolating UPSTATE NY.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 18, 2008, 01:51:11 PM
My very good source said that Curry practiced 4 days last week.  My very good source is a Curry coach.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 18, 2008, 01:58:12 PM
Can you pls find out if they watched Desperate Housewives also last week??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: mel on November 18, 2008, 01:51:11 PM
My very good source said that Curry practiced 4 days last week.  My very good source is a Curry coach.

How many nights did Dem Spicy Boyz go out drinking that purple drank last week... thinking their season was over? They drink that purple drank and make them Spicy Girlz shake that stuff. Colonel Sanders' got nothing on these chickenheads.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2008, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 18, 2008, 01:58:12 PM
Can you pls find out if they watched Desperate Housewives also last week??

+1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 18, 2008, 03:49:50 PM
BOL - purple drank


(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.curry.edu%2FNR%2Frdonlyres%2FAEC7B464-1926-4BA9-B5C3-B83DACACBECF%2F4987%2FNEFCcelebration.jpg&hash=6bf1bc792edf62ca6231a0b5b257b76b287c89da)

Tonight we're gonna get our purple drank on!!!

check out #29 with the double thumbs up
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...

OK, I didn't know they were an automatic bid, I saw they were in a four way tie in their conference and 2 of the teams were 8-2.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 18, 2008, 03:52:18 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...

OK, I didn't know they were an automatic bid, I saw they were in a four way tie in their conference and 2 of the teams were 8-2.  

From the ODAC - and the alma mater of D3fb's own K-Mack
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:59:08 PM
I would think to upset Mt. Union, due to their superior depth, it would probably be better to meet them earlier than later.  Teams will be banged up in the later rounds.  It is way too early to look ahead but it is kind of exciting to think that the Cortaca 2.0 winner could be headed to Ohio.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 04:07:49 PM
Ithaca fans aren't gonna like this, but Gro's gotta pull for Curry here. Dem Spicy Boyz got that drank... that purple drank.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AQ9y8wAcbr3pWfM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh80%2FNuclearCookout%2FPurpleDrank.jpg&hash=7c69dc36cfe89ddec524fd79fae49cce48c83e8e)
Grimace - Curry Class of '96

Curry's gonna sip sip sip that drank and get hizzy to the tizzy. And they don't stop till the drank is all gone. The Bombers won't know what hit'em. Referee's better not check that gatorade bucket next to Grimace.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 18, 2008, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 04:07:49 PM
Ithaca fans aren't gonna like this, but Gro's gotta pull for Curry here. Dem Spicy Boyz got that drank... that purple drank.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AQ9y8wAcbr3pWfM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh80%2FNuclearCookout%2FPurpleDrank.jpg&hash=7c69dc36cfe89ddec524fd79fae49cce48c83e8e)
Grimace - Curry Class of '96

Curry's gonna sip sip sip that drank and get hizzy to the tizzy. And they don't stop till the drank is all gone. The Bombers won't know what hit'em. Referee's better not check that gatorade bucket next to Grimace.

BOL...u r on a roll this afternoon....next up barney?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2008, 04:20:36 PM
Where Butterfield at??  Who Dat GON GON BEAT DEM SPICY BOYZ WHO DAT???

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehype.info%2Fcontent%2FImage%2FPurple%2520Bus%25201.JPG&hash=ea906341a46d5ac00771fb780385796603f76fcd)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 04:25:16 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hauntedventures.com%2F2007NEWTEMPLATES%2FFunnyCharacters%2FPurpleGrapes.jpg&hash=937bba75aeb4759c008ef79d4150ec1b24520728)
Curry starting LB Chad Wisniwski waves to the NEFC fans...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 04:27:52 PM
What's the weather like this weekend?  The forcast could be in Curry's favor

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A5Mbbw6uPY2b27M%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz280%2FAko_Magami%2Follie1.jpg&hash=25ffa2dba0819823891cd7ce4277c9fbe5706837)
see, it's purple
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 04:30:57 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.criticaljunctions.com%2Fuploaded_images%2FPrince_PurpleRain_single-704679.jpg&hash=574ee8235b061ed049a808eb6419592f77289e4e)
"I never meant 2 cause u any sorrow
I never meant 2 cause u any pain
I only wanted 2 one time see u laughing
I only wanted 2 see u laughing in the purple rain"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 18, 2008, 04:33:48 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AR92AwUl4I2SsAM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.canvasart2.co.uk%2FWebRoot%2Fluk%2FShops%2Fcanvasart2_002E_co_002E_uk%2F4661%2F2F74%2F195A%2FAD5E%2FE24B%2FD44E%2FD1C5%2F587F%2FDarthPurple_m.jpg&hash=930f1d2ba614c2ad0917858bd6a8349b51bc65b3)


joseqviper...come to the purple side...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 04:43:07 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.milosport.com%2Fity%2F44193_lg.jpg&hash=4d795b0d2d17228c3870fc75671403eb85aced0a)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 18, 2008, 04:44:25 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AUxAqSC8O7H67KM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2F3413%2Fmacewindu3zk.jpg&hash=11ff1458b62471f0bfa6ba336ddf06bd34c476fb)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: realistic on November 18, 2008, 04:57:12 PM
wow - fellas.  Thank you.  Just had some not so fun possible lay off news at work.  thank you for making me laugh.

+K to all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2008, 05:01:31 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fz.about.com%2Fd%2Fshoes%2F1%2F0%2FD%2Fk%2Fpurple_shoes.jpg&hash=35c7b8428990ea904b379e57bb24fb15163dd742)

Curry womens pick out their shoes to wear to 'da dance'
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 05:01:48 PM
PBR, that last one got me.... funny ish.

So... do we recycle all of these into Mount Union jokes next week?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:04:29 PM
What 2 posters want to own up to having picked both IC and Curry to win this week in the poll?  If they both win, do they both team-up for Cortaca II?  Would the game then be called CORTACADEMSPICYBOYZ II?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 05:09:21 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:04:29 PM
What 2 posters want to own up to having picked both IC and Curry to win this week in the poll?  If they both win, do they both team-up for Cortaca II?  Would the game then be called CORTACADEMSPICYBOYZ II?

I picked em because I like the longshot....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 05:09:21 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:04:29 PM
What 2 posters want to own up to having picked both IC and Curry to win this week in the poll?  If they both win, do they both team-up for Cortaca II?  Would the game then be called CORTACADEMSPICYBOYZ II?

I picked em because I like the longshot....

You picked both of them?  are you just being sarcastic?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 05:09:21 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:04:29 PM
What 2 posters want to own up to having picked both IC and Curry to win this week in the poll?  If they both win, do they both team-up for Cortaca II?  Would the game then be called CORTACADEMSPICYBOYZ II?

I picked em because I like the longshot....

You picked both of them?  are you just being sarcastic?

Im dead serious.  I think if Ithaca and Curry both do the job, they both just might have a chance.  I mean, its a big if, but I have this gut feeling.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 18, 2008, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:11:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2008, 05:09:21 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 18, 2008, 05:04:29 PM
What 2 posters want to own up to having picked both IC and Curry to win this week in the poll?  If they both win, do they both team-up for Cortaca II?  Would the game then be called CORTACADEMSPICYBOYZ II?

I picked em because I like the longshot....

You picked both of them?  are you just being sarcastic?

Im dead serious.  I think if Ithaca and Curry both do the job, they both just might have a chance.  I mean, its a big if, but I have this gut feeling.

Seeing last years Curry team and knowing last years Curry team was probably better, its going to be a long day for Dem Spicy Boyz...

Curry might keep it close for the first half but eventually they will get out muscled and physically beat up vs Caveman-State.  How Curry beat down Hartwick last year is still a mystery to me...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 18, 2008, 06:34:05 PM
Quote from: mel on November 18, 2008, 01:51:11 PM
My very good source said that Curry practiced 4 days last week.  My very good source is a Curry coach.


Thx, Mel.  At least a handful of us were curious on this 1 and your input is appreciated.

+1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 18, 2008, 06:45:41 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 04:07:49 PM
Ithaca fans aren't gonna like this, but Gro's gotta pull for Curry here. Dem Spicy Boyz got that drank... that purple drank.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AQ9y8wAcbr3pWfM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh80%2FNuclearCookout%2FPurpleDrank.jpg&hash=7c69dc36cfe89ddec524fd79fae49cce48c83e8e)
Grimace - Curry Class of '96

Curry's gonna sip sip sip that drank and get hizzy to the tizzy. And they don't stop till the drank is all gone. The Bombers won't know what hit'em. Referee's better not check that gatorade bucket next to Grimace.

Come on gro going for Curry? The purple pandas, the purple people pansies, the purple p&^%ys, the purple gonna get their ass handed to them, the purple pixi sticks, the purple pezz dispensers, the purple prostitutes because they must have sold their bodies for sex to get the bid, the purple.....well **** if they win I am gonna eat a purple Popsicle!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 18, 2008, 08:28:10 PM
Curry is not going to win... how bout that for insight
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2008, 08:28:57 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 18, 2008, 08:28:10 PM
Curry is not going to win... how bout that for insight

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!  That's the most correct thing I've heard today!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 18, 2008, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: realistic on November 18, 2008, 04:57:12 PM
wow - fellas.  Thank you.  Just had some not so fun possible lay off news at work.  thank you for making me laugh.

+K to all.

dood that sux....it is a tough environment everywhere right now...on the bright side the llpp is always here for your comic relief....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 18, 2008, 08:35:23 PM
i feel the Curry vs ithaca will be similar to the SJF game of last year which would be good for the NEFC b/c ithaca of this year is better then the SJF team of last year
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 18, 2008, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 18, 2008, 08:35:23 PM
i feel the Curry vs ithaca will be similar to the SJF game of last year which would be good for the NEFC b/c ithaca of this year is better then the SJF team of last year

Id take Rob Kramer led SJF team over pretty much anyone in the east this year...

That being said Curry is not as good as they were last year and IC is damn near on Par with SJF from last year...

IC with a double monkey stomp...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2008, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...

OK, I didn't know they were an automatic bid, I saw they were in a four way tie in their conference and 2 of the teams were 8-2.  

How else would a 6-4 team get in?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 09:37:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2008, 08:55:56 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...

OK, I didn't know they were an automatic bid, I saw they were in a four way tie in their conference and 2 of the teams were 8-2.  

How else would a 6-4 team get in?

That's why I asked, I didn't know how strong that conference was.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2008, 08:11:51 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 18, 2008, 08:39:51 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 18, 2008, 08:35:23 PM
i feel the Curry vs ithaca will be similar to the SJF game of last year which would be good for the NEFC b/c ithaca of this year is better then the SJF team of last year

Id take Rob Kramer led SJF team over pretty much anyone in the east this year...

That being said Curry is not as good as they were last year and IC is damn near on Par with SJF from last year...

IC with a double monkey stomp...

Here's a question: We're sitting here discussing how the NEFC is so terrible and saying Ithaca needs to not get caught napping. Is it possible Curry could be the one saying "Hey, we beat an E8 school last year no problem."?

I doubt it, but it's something to wonder. The bottom line is though, Ithaca is immensly more talented than Hartwick. They have good players at all positions (Minus maybe the front 4) CB, WR, TE, OL, QB, RB, LB...they're loaded. Hartwick was Boltus, Crea and Phelan. There's just too much talent, and Welch won't let these kids get caught napping. IC has gotten into some trap games, but always on the road, and usually on turf. At home, this team is always focused, always ready to go, and they just don't lose to teams that are less talented (Cortaca being an exception)

Prediction: Ithaca 41, Curry 17
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 19, 2008, 08:16:44 AM
I don't think Ithaca will have too much of a problem.  I think they will be ready, I also think they would like another shot at MUC.  They played them tougher than anyone last year except UWW.  Ithaca seems to be a team that really does build during the season to be playing at their best come the playoffs and I think DSB may have a problem on their hands.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 19, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Curry's probably still has that "Oh my God... Ithaca" feeling that teams that are not used to them get.  IC's got a great rep and resume (year after year) to back it up. But when it all comes down to it they are just another team. Don't get me wrong, IC is the favorite by far. Curry players need to learn to not believe the hype.  IC will probably win based on talent, coaching, etc... not because they are all mighty Ithaca.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 19, 2008, 08:43:59 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 19, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Curry's probably still has that "Oh my God... Ithaca" feeling that teams that are not used to them get.  IC's got a great rep and resume (year after year) to back it up. But when it all comes down to it they are just another team. Don't get me wrong, IC is the favorite by far. Curry players need to learn to not believe the hype.  IC will probably win based on talent, coaching, etc... not because they are all mighty Ithaca.

Somehow, as I was reading this, I was picturing 'Gro as Christopher Walken in Catch me if You Can saying "You know why the Yankees win?  The other team can't stop looking at the pinstripes."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 19, 2008, 08:44:23 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 19, 2008, 08:16:44 AM
I don't think Ithaca will have too much of a problem.  I think they will be ready, I also think they would like another shot at MUC.  They played them tougher than anyone last year except UWW.  Ithaca seems to be a team that really does build during the season to be playing at their best come the playoffs and I think DSB may have a problem on their hands.

The quality of coaching is evident as, through any given season, the Bombers in Week 11 are much better than the Bombers in Week 1. That's why Pep is excited about 2009 as the Saxons were within a yard and 2 pt conversion of taking the Bombers to OT in Week 10. Of course, AU will graduate some outstanding players, but Pep saw that happen last year as well.

Go Bombers!

and, of course, On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: vttanker on November 19, 2008, 09:14:12 AM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 18, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
Quote from: vttanker on November 17, 2008, 10:20:01 AM


If you assume the kid is just looking at football programs, maybe.  But that is far from what really happens.

Below are some real numbers.  Mass had 20 schools that offer D3 football, but not near the population of a PA, IL, or OH.  Ah yes, but WI does good you ask??  Hey I didn't say it was the only reason.  Just one reason. 

State   #Schools   Population   Density
PA   24   12,432,792    518,033
IL   21   12,852,548    612,026
OH   21   11,466,917    546,044
MA   20   6,449,755    322,488
WI   18   5,601,640    311,202
NY   17   11,023,202    648,424
MN   15   5,197,621    346,508
IA   10   2,988,046    298,805
VA   10   7,712,091    771,209
CA   9   36,553,215    4,061,468

There are other factors as well.  Real world, my son plays D3 football and wouldn't go to WPI if he had the choice.  No Men's Lacrosse.  My son plays two sports, loves them both.  School had to offer both, plus an academic program that interested him.


Are you sure NY's population is less than OH's?

I took out the population of New York City, about 8.3 Million.  I'm not trying to manipulate the results, but given the city's close proximity to New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania it's fair to assume many of those kids could head to schools in those areas and not just New York schools.  So a piece of that 8.3M belongs to New York, but also all the surrounding states.  Just no good way to account for it so I took it out completely.

Population density is just one factor, but not the only one.  Otherwise California should be a D3 power house, but they're not.  Yet they have some great high school teams, so where do all those kids go?  D1, D2?

If you take a closer look at Mass.  Other than NESCAC and NEFC teams there are only four other teams from Mass not in those conferences.  Becker,2-7; Mt Ida,4-6; Springfield,4-6; and WPI,7-3.  Only WPI had a winning record, but inside the LL they're an average team.  Springfield 3 of the last 4 years has just been an average team.  You gotta wonder what's going on.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2008, 09:21:26 AM
viper-
2 mice were stuck in a vat of heavy cream..........................................
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 19, 2008, 09:42:21 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2008, 09:21:26 AM
viper-
2 mice were stuck in a vat of heavy cream..........................................

Both mice were from the NEFC and recognized the cream as a main ingredient in their regular season schedules...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2008, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 19, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Curry's probably still has that "Oh my God... Ithaca" feeling that teams that are not used to them get.  IC's got a great rep and resume (year after year) to back it up. But when it all comes down to it they are just another team. Don't get me wrong, IC is the favorite by far. Curry players need to learn to not believe the hype.  IC will probably win based on talent, coaching, etc... not because they are all mighty Ithaca.

I agree with you there. IC was able to--sort of---hang with MUC last year because they refused to get bowled over by going up to Alliance. Curry would be wise to adopt the same mindset--and if they're well coached, they will. Some teams (Springfield would be one) come in to Butterfield and just lay down. Two years ago, they came in unbeaten after hanging 55 on SJF and put up a big fat 7. In '04 they came in at 5-1 and lost 31-7. In '02 they made the NCAA's at 8-1 and the only loss was a 44-20 butt-kicking up here.

So if you're Curry, don't uh, be like Springfield. Be like Cortland is and Buff State was. Come in a little cocky, with just enough swagger. Play loose and easy. That's how you beat Ithaca at Butterfield
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2008, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2008, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 19, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Curry's probably still has that "Oh my God... Ithaca" feeling that teams that are not used to them get.  IC's got a great rep and resume (year after year) to back it up. But when it all comes down to it they are just another team. Don't get me wrong, IC is the favorite by far. Curry players need to learn to not believe the hype.  IC will probably win based on talent, coaching, etc... not because they are all mighty Ithaca.

I agree with you there. IC was able to--sort of---hang with MUC last year because they refused to get bowled over by going up to Alliance. Curry would be wise to adopt the same mindset--and if they're well coached, they will. Some teams (Springfield would be one) come in to Butterfield and just lay down. Two years ago, they came in unbeaten after hanging 55 on SJF and put up a big fat 7. In '04 they came in at 5-1 and lost 31-7. In '02 they made the NCAA's at 8-1 and the only loss was a 44-20 butt-kicking up here.

So if you're Curry, don't uh, be like Springfield. Be like Cortland is and Buff State was. Come in a little cocky, with just enough swagger. Play loose and easy. That's how you beat Ithaca at Butterfield

...or be like SJF at Butterfield.   BTW, all year SJF fans were criticized for even suggesting that a 30 pt loss was an accomplishment in Alliance.  No brownie pts now for IC for last year's trip to Alliance and losing by alot.  A monkeystomp is a monkeystomp is a monkeystomp.  Other than UWW 2007 and Capital 2006, SJF 2006 is the only squad that "was able to hang with MUC" in recent play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: realistic on November 19, 2008, 12:44:07 PM
I think you need to check 'gro's signature for the take on Monkeystomps.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 19, 2008, 12:48:56 PM
I just read Around the Northeast.  Three interesting points:

1. Dem Spicy Boyz only have one full-time coach.

2.  Somehow, the Head Coach is not the full-time coach.  WTF?

3.  Plymouth State lost to Mount Ida...at football.  WTF?

It just occurred to me that had the committee not moved Randolph Macon and taken someone other than Curry then Plymouth State would have likely been the 8 seed.  Then, they would have the opportunity to lose to Moutn Ida and beat Mount Union in the same season.  Obviously, following such a feat, the headline on D3Football would be: REPENT.  THE END IS NEAR.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2008, 01:12:48 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 19, 2008, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2008, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 19, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Curry's probably still has that "Oh my God... Ithaca" feeling that teams that are not used to them get.  IC's got a great rep and resume (year after year) to back it up. But when it all comes down to it they are just another team. Don't get me wrong, IC is the favorite by far. Curry players need to learn to not believe the hype.  IC will probably win based on talent, coaching, etc... not because they are all mighty Ithaca.

I agree with you there. IC was able to--sort of---hang with MUC last year because they refused to get bowled over by going up to Alliance. Curry would be wise to adopt the same mindset--and if they're well coached, they will. Some teams (Springfield would be one) come in to Butterfield and just lay down. Two years ago, they came in unbeaten after hanging 55 on SJF and put up a big fat 7. In '04 they came in at 5-1 and lost 31-7. In '02 they made the NCAA's at 8-1 and the only loss was a 44-20 butt-kicking up here.

So if you're Curry, don't uh, be like Springfield. Be like Cortland is and Buff State was. Come in a little cocky, with just enough swagger. Play loose and easy. That's how you beat Ithaca at Butterfield

...or be like SJF at Butterfield.   BTW, all year SJF fans were criticized for even suggesting that a 30 pt loss was an accomplishment in Alliance.  No brownie pts now for IC for last year's trip to Alliance and losing by alot.  A monkeystomp is a monkeystomp is a monkeystomp.  Other than UWW 2007 and Capital 2006, SJF 2006 is the only squad that "was able to hang with MUC" in recent play.

1) I believe I mentioned SJF winning at IC in another post, but said that Curry was nowhere as talented as that year's SJF team. That's obviously true. The point I was trying to make is that, on a talent level, Curry probably equates more to the Buffalo State and Cortland teams. You were #6 in the country before that game #5 after, and, as you said yourself, hung with MUC later. Curry is getting one vote in the Top 25. SJF '07 and Curry '08 are not even close to similar comparisons. SJF '07 was a very good team. SJF won in IC in 2007 for a simple reason: They were a much better team. I was really trying to talk about going in to IC as an underdog and pulling out a win. The difference, to this point anyway, is that, from a W-L perspective, which, since we're in the playoffs, is all that matters, is that Cortland has had significant recent success at IC, going 4-1 there from 1997-2003. Buffalo State won there in 1992, 1996 and 1998.

2) Where did this random attack come from? I mentioned that IC "sort of" hung with MUC last season. IC hung with MUC for a half last season, just like you did this season, in part because they were good teams, but also because they weren't going to be intimidated by MUC. I never even mentioned SJF in that point, or their game against MUC.

Bomber fans and SJF fans both said the same thing: "We gave MUC their closest game of the season to that point." You guys lost by 30, which only Occidental has come as close to. Ithaca lost by 24, which was the standard until Whitewater came to town. At the end of the day, it doesn't mean much beyond pride though, because hey, IC lost.

I don't think anyone, myself included, thinks you guys shouldn't take pride from the game, which is all IC fans ever did. It's when you get into trying to use that game as a marker for Pool C inclusion, which some, and I stress, some fans tried to do, that people questioned it. There's no reason you don't deserve praise for the game you played however. It just didn't do much, in my mind, to solidify a playoff bid. I think that's where most of the dissention came from. Not really an "SJF lost to MUC by 30 points. SJF is terrible," because that would be stupid. It was "Losing to MUC by 30 instead of 50 is not an argument for a NCAA appearance."

But, I also didn't like IC's preseason ranking, which I too felt was based on the concept of "Losing by 30 and not 50 to MUC".

My post was  really not about comparing point totals. It was simply about the idea of, when playing against a superior opponent, not allowing yourself to be overwhelmed and down big early on.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 19, 2008, 01:15:43 PM
Lost to Mt. Ida who got crushed by Morrisville, the weakest team in the NJAC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 19, 2008, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2008, 01:12:48 PM2) Where did this random attack come from?

A rest stop on the long road to Husson.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
Quote from: JoseQViper on November 19, 2008, 12:48:56 PM
I just read Around the Northeast.  Three interesting points:

1. Dem Spicy Boyz only have one full-time coach.

2.  Somehow, the Head Coach is not the full-time coach.  WTF?

3.  Plymouth State lost to Mount Ida...at football.  WTF?

It just occurred to me that had the committee not moved Randolph Macon and taken someone other than Curry then Plymouth State would have likely been the 8 seed.  Then, they would have the opportunity to lose to Moutn Ida and beat Mount Union in the same season.  Obviously, following such a feat, the headline on D3Football would be: REPENT.  THE END IS NEAR.

When Curry made it to the second round last year at SJF, I called the game for NCAASports.com.  After Curry's loss, I stopped in a nearby rest area and actually overheard a group of Curry parents talking about how the kids basically would have to fend for themselves that night because the school was closing/had closed the dorms (the players couldn't stay there Saturday night apparently, even though they weren't scheduled to be back to Curry until about 9pm).  Also the food provisions during the prior week were reportedly suspect (I engaged in a conversation with the group out of curiosity and got more than I bargained for in the exchange).  I think this might show some level of the "commitment" the NEFC schools have in terms of their football programs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 19, 2008, 02:23:29 PM
DSB "team dorm" for playoff week:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fburn.meltphace.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F05%2Ftent.jpg&hash=2ec222fe4d227cbe64f67da759cad1927b1f726a)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 19, 2008, 02:45:29 PM
DSB Food Service for playoff week:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realadventures.com%2Flistingimages%2F1023%2F1023023%2Fm_1023023d.jpg&hash=de9254f2bbe72ae00f3cf5f637b06edddc625a89)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 19, 2008, 02:47:42 PM
pbr cant believe the head of dem spicy boyz alumni and fan clue said this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 19, 2008, 03:01:03 PM
A Spicy Boy boarding the team "bus" for Ithaca.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiddlersgreenstudio.com%2FTrains_hobos%2Ftrains_hobos_008_med.jpg&hash=77ebaf4de93e8521ae8b5b5f42b47da1e97e58b2)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 19, 2008, 03:20:25 PM
Curry football's financial advisor:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbnail.search.aolcdn.com%2Faais%2FEMI%2Fmedia%2Fmchammer%2F0094631039058.jpg&hash=0e1eeb8c3df452919ae453146d56204c533ebb8c)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 19, 2008, 03:21:05 PM
"Keep Pounding"

LD11
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 19, 2008, 03:46:48 PM
heard this dood is 1/2 time entertainment....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AS3CPJWbA5OBHdM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.teesforall.com%2Fimages%2FJimi_Hendrix_Purple_Haze_Black_Shirt.jpg&hash=c3bae172a855b77f53ea92c1eb99a2ea2915180e)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 19, 2008, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
Quote from: JoseQViper on November 19, 2008, 12:48:56 PM
I just read Around the Northeast.  Three interesting points:

1. Dem Spicy Boyz only have one full-time coach.

2.  Somehow, the Head Coach is not the full-time coach.  WTF?

3.  Plymouth State lost to Mount Ida...at football.  WTF?

It just occurred to me that had the committee not moved Randolph Macon and taken someone other than Curry then Plymouth State would have likely been the 8 seed.  Then, they would have the opportunity to lose to Moutn Ida and beat Mount Union in the same season.  Obviously, following such a feat, the headline on D3Football would be: REPENT.  THE END IS NEAR.

When Curry made it to the second round last year at SJF, I called the game for NCAASports.com.  After Curry's loss, I stopped in a nearby rest area and actually overheard a group of Curry parents talking about how the kids basically would have to fend for themselves that night because the school was closing/had closed the dorms (the players couldn't stay there Saturday night apparently, even though they weren't scheduled to be back to Curry until about 9pm).  Also the food provisions during the prior week were reportedly suspect (I engaged in a conversation with the group out of curiosity and got more than I bargained for in the exchange).  I think this might show some level of the "commitment" the NEFC schools have in terms of their football programs.

Same thing at Union in 05'.....and they were at home.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2008, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 19, 2008, 03:46:48 PM
heard this dood is 1/2 time entertainment....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AS3CPJWbA5OBHdM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.teesforall.com%2Fimages%2FJimi_Hendrix_Purple_Haze_Black_Shirt.jpg&hash=c3bae172a855b77f53ea92c1eb99a2ea2915180e)

Nah, the Haze is in Alfred's backfield...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 19, 2008, 04:04:09 PM
DSB's field was not NCAA worthy in 2003 when they were a #4 seed (4!) making them travel to #5 RPI.

I think they upgraded their field after some fund raising

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AmjRD0nbJfDXSGM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.afro-netizen.com%2Fimages%2Fnipsey1.jpg&hash=610e88e7862dd761253599fb772aff7bfa402865)
We finally sold the
last of the peanut brittle
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2008, 10:38:22 PM
Here are my picks for the coming weekend:

MUC 56
Randolph-Macon 0

Lycoming  14
Hobart   17

Curry 21
Ithaca  49

PSU 3
Cortland State 49
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 19, 2008, 10:44:15 PM
My picks:

MUC 63
Randolph-Macon 0
-LK has MUC kick 10 FG's in the 2nd half to keep the score from reaching triple digits

Lycoming  21
Hobart   24
-Too close to call, I give it to Hobart due to home field advantage

Curry 10
Ithaca  42
-Dem Spicy Boyz are a good story for the NEFC but IC's on fire right now

PSU 7
Cortland State 40
-PSU will keep it respectable in the first half but States chemically enhanced cavemen over power PSU in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 20, 2008, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2008, 10:44:15 PM
My picks:

MUC 63
Randolph-Macon 0
-LK has MUC kick 10 FG's in the 2nd half to keep the score from reaching triple digits

Lycoming  21
Hobart   24
-Too close to call, I give it to Hobart due to home field advantage

Curry 10
Ithaca  42
-Dem Spicy Boyz are a good story for the NEFC but IC's on fire right now

PSU 7
Cortland State 40
-PSU will keep it respectable in the first half but States chemically enhanced cavemen over power PSU in the 2nd half.
And we are sponsored by Geico
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2008, 08:23:52 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2008, 10:44:15 PMbut States chemically enhanced cavemen over power PSU in the 2nd half.

Choked on my coffee.  +k.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 09:01:45 AM
Gro feels that both Cortland and Ithaca will win on saturday, but these wins won't be as easy as most posters think.

I can picture the Plymouth State captains showing up at midfield dressed like the 3 amigos...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AWNb9QcP12Vq-OM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fboxoffice.com%2Fblogs%2Fsteve%2Fthree-amigos-salute.jpeg&hash=11e75b15d3fb535a7821601a4465237e845a26f2)
P-state: Tell us we will die like dogs

C-State: You WILL die like dogs

P-State: NO! We will fight like... PANTHERS



And you already know how I feel about Curry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 20, 2008, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 09:01:45 AM
Gro feels that both Cortland and Ithaca will win on saturday, but these wins won't be as easy as most posters think.

I can picture the Plymouth State captains showing up at midfield dressed like the 3 amigos...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AWNb9QcP12Vq-OM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fboxoffice.com%2Fblogs%2Fsteve%2Fthree-amigos-salute.jpeg&hash=11e75b15d3fb535a7821601a4465237e845a26f2)
P-state: Tell us we will die like dogs

C-State: You WILL die like dogs

P-State: NO! We will fight like... PANTHERS



And you already know how I feel about Curry.

k+

the P-State Panthers

Gro: [about P-State] I'll give this little cookie an hour before we're doing the no-pants dance. Time to musk up.
[opens cologne cabinet]
LD: Wow. Never ceases to amaze me. What cologne you gonna go with? London Gentleman, or wait. No, no, no. Hold on. Blackbeard's Delight.
Gro: No, these Panthers get a special cologne... It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.
LD: It's quite pungent.
Gro: Oh yeah.
LD: It's a formidable scent... It stings the nostrils. In a good way.
Gro: Yep.   
LD: Gro, I'm gonna be honest with you, that smells like pure gasoline.
Gro: They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
[cheesy grin]
LD: That doesn't make sense.
Gro: Well... Let's go see if we can make this little kitty purr.  And pour me some of that purple drank while we're at it.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 11:08:02 AM
Yes TGP!!  The Plymouth State Sex Panthers.  I'm supposed to root for NY in the playoffs, but Curry and P-State are just too funny. 60% of the time, they win every time.

That's funny I used the "it's quite pungent... " lines at work and no one knew what I was talking about.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 20, 2008, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 11:08:02 AM
Yes TGP!!  The Plymouth State Sex Panthers.  I'm supposed to root for NY in the playoffs, but Curry and P-State are just too funny. 60% of the time, they win every time.

That's funny I used the "it's quite pungent... " lines at work and no one knew what I was talking about.

dude, it smells like Bigfoot's C#*k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 20, 2008, 11:40:21 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 20, 2008, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 11:08:02 AM
Yes TGP!!  The Plymouth State Sex Panthers.  I'm supposed to root for NY in the playoffs, but Curry and P-State are just too funny. 60% of the time, they win every time.

That's funny I used the "it's quite pungent... " lines at work and no one knew what I was talking about.

dude, it smells like Bigfoot's C#*k

the real line was "bigfoot's d*ck" I will let you redeem youself if yo can give me the right diaper line
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2008, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2008, 11:40:21 AMthe real line was "bigfoot's d*ck" I will let you redeem youself if yo can give me the right diaper line

Not to steal RT's thunder, but every time MJQV has to change a nasty diaper (my daugther obviously loves me more, she only fires out the nasty diapers while I am at work, I can't remember the last time I had to change a bad one) I always ask if she filled it with indian food.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
As I was reading the MUC bracket team capsules, I almost wish they did something else in addition to the "How far can they go?" Like a "How can they pull of an upset?" or something.

While we all know that in 99.99% of cases, MUC is not going to lose before the Stagg Bowl in all likelyhood, what's the point in writing a "How far can they go?" if, at best, they all end with "To Alliance"? Yeah, you can't pretend that it's a likely scenario, but couldn't we at least discuss what needs to happen for a team like IC or Cortland or someone to pull off a win? I mean, this is the playoffs. Upsets are half the fun, and these teams are all very good, well-coached teams, some with very strong histories.

I know of course, since MUC doesn't lose in the regional bracket I may not have much of a leg to stand on, because hey, why plan for something that has never happened right? At the same time, MUC is human, they obviously CAN be beaten, so couldn't we at least, for a sentence or tw,o discuss how? Two years ago, SJF played them tough. IC hung with them for a half last season. Obviously even though the teams are different, those teams did something right, at least for awhile.

Pat actually did a nice job doing that when asked who would give MUC trouble on the selection show, and maybe the predictions column coming soon will have something too. But it would be nice to at least create the illusion once in awhile, that for teams other than UW-W, we're playing for something other than the right to lose to MUC, even if it's highly unlikely. If we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 20, 2008, 12:04:27 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
As I was reading the MUC bracket team capsules, I almost wish they did something else in addition to the "How far can they go?" Like a "How can they pull of an upset?" or something.

While we all know that in 99.99% of cases, MUC is not going to lose before the Stagg Bowl in all likelyhood, what's the point in writing a "How far can they go?" if, at best, they all end with "To Alliance"? Yeah, you can't pretend that it's a likely scenario, but couldn't we at least discuss what needs to happen for a team like IC or Cortland or someone to pull off a win? I mean, this is the playoffs. Upsets are half the fun, and these teams are all very good, well-coached teams, some with very strong histories.

I know of course, since MUC doesn't lose in the regional bracket I may not have much of a leg to stand on, because hey, why plan for something that has never happened right? At the same time, MUC is human, they obviously CAN be beaten, so couldn't we at least, for a sentence or tw,o discuss how? Two years ago, SJF played them tough. IC hung with them for a half last season. Obviously even though the teams are different, those teams did something right, at least for awhile.

Pat actually did a nice job doing that when asked who would give MUC trouble on the selection show, and maybe the predictions column coming soon will have something too. But it would be nice to at least create the illusion once in awhile, that for teams other than UW-W, we're playing for something other than the right to lose to MUC, even if it's highly unlikely. If we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?

What about another clash of the deep purples?

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.daylife.com%2Fimageserve%2F0dPz4BEgGzh1t%2F340x.jpg&hash=7845977475b83fa7b40bfc09519748453d091d25)

And I mean Mt union vs. DSB!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
As I was reading the MUC bracket team capsules, I almost wish they did something else in addition to the "How far can they go?" Like a "How can they pull of an upset?" or something.

While we all know that in 99.99% of cases, MUC is not going to lose before the Stagg Bowl in all likelyhood, what's the point in writing a "How far can they go?" if, at best, they all end with "To Alliance"? Yeah, you can't pretend that it's a likely scenario, but couldn't we at least discuss what needs to happen for a team like IC or Cortland or someone to pull off a win? I mean, this is the playoffs. Upsets are half the fun, and these teams are all very good, well-coached teams, some with very strong histories.

I know of course, since MUC doesn't lose in the regional bracket I may not have much of a leg to stand on, because hey, why plan for something that has never happened right? At the same time, MUC is human, they obviously CAN be beaten, so couldn't we at least, for a sentence or tw,o discuss how? Two years ago, SJF played them tough. IC hung with them for a half last season. Obviously even though the teams are different, those teams did something right, at least for awhile.

Pat actually did a nice job doing that when asked who would give MUC trouble on the selection show, and maybe the predictions column coming soon will have something too. But it would be nice to at least create the illusion once in awhile, that for teams other than UW-W, we're playing for something other than the right to lose to MUC, even if it's highly unlikely. If we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?

Mount Union has reached the semifinals 13 years in a row. What's the point indeed?

I wasn't aware we were supposed to create illusions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
As I was reading the MUC bracket team capsules, I almost wish they did something else in addition to the "How far can they go?" Like a "How can they pull of an upset?" or something.

While we all know that in 99.99% of cases, MUC is not going to lose before the Stagg Bowl in all likelyhood, what's the point in writing a "How far can they go?" if, at best, they all end with "To Alliance"? Yeah, you can't pretend that it's a likely scenario, but couldn't we at least discuss what needs to happen for a team like IC or Cortland or someone to pull off a win? I mean, this is the playoffs. Upsets are half the fun, and these teams are all very good, well-coached teams, some with very strong histories.

I know of course, since MUC doesn't lose in the regional bracket I may not have much of a leg to stand on, because hey, why plan for something that has never happened right? At the same time, MUC is human, they obviously CAN be beaten, so couldn't we at least, for a sentence or tw,o discuss how? Two years ago, SJF played them tough. IC hung with them for a half last season. Obviously even though the teams are different, those teams did something right, at least for awhile.

Pat actually did a nice job doing that when asked who would give MUC trouble on the selection show, and maybe the predictions column coming soon will have something too. But it would be nice to at least create the illusion once in awhile, that for teams other than UW-W, we're playing for something other than the right to lose to MUC, even if it's highly unlikely. If we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?

Mount Union has reached the semifinals 13 years in a row. What's the point indeed?

So why bother playing the games then Pat? Let's just zip them right to the semis.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
As I was reading the MUC bracket team capsules, I almost wish they did something else in addition to the "How far can they go?" Like a "How can they pull of an upset?" or something.

While we all know that in 99.99% of cases, MUC is not going to lose before the Stagg Bowl in all likelyhood, what's the point in writing a "How far can they go?" if, at best, they all end with "To Alliance"? Yeah, you can't pretend that it's a likely scenario, but couldn't we at least discuss what needs to happen for a team like IC or Cortland or someone to pull off a win? I mean, this is the playoffs. Upsets are half the fun, and these teams are all very good, well-coached teams, some with very strong histories.

I know of course, since MUC doesn't lose in the regional bracket I may not have much of a leg to stand on, because hey, why plan for something that has never happened right? At the same time, MUC is human, they obviously CAN be beaten, so couldn't we at least, for a sentence or tw,o discuss how? Two years ago, SJF played them tough. IC hung with them for a half last season. Obviously even though the teams are different, those teams did something right, at least for awhile.

Pat actually did a nice job doing that when asked who would give MUC trouble on the selection show, and maybe the predictions column coming soon will have something too. But it would be nice to at least create the illusion once in awhile, that for teams other than UW-W, we're playing for something other than the right to lose to MUC, even if it's highly unlikely. If we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?

Mount Union has reached the semifinals 13 years in a row. What's the point indeed?

So why bother playing the games then Pat? They're going to win anyway. No-one has a chance. Let's just zip them right to the semis, give them a three-week bye.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.

That's my question: What do the guys on the field need to do? How can they be sucessful?

As I said if you re-read my post, I know there's very little of a chance. No-one's saying you need to predict a loss if you don't see one. But to not even discuss what needs to happen for an upset to occur? To not even say, "Here's how Otterbein stuck with MUC for 20 minutes" or "Here's what Whitewater was able to do last season"? Something beyond just discarding the possibility of another team in the bracket doing anything as a pipe dream?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: realistic on November 20, 2008, 12:18:57 PM
Bombers - this comes up everytime someone plays Mount.  The fisher guys got riled up about the same thing before their game last year and again this season. 

What are they going to write?  Teams play their best against Mount and usually still lose.  Is it possible, yeah anything is.  Is it likely, no.  I don't know if you want them to make up something or have real analysis.  To me, thats real analysis since no one has stopped them recently.

If this was the late 80s, I imagine anyone analyzing it would have said the same thing about Dayton, Auagustana and sometimes IC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 20, 2008, 12:22:19 PM
TGP would have liked to have this in the capsules:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d3football.com%2Fimages%2Flogos%2F32.jpg&hash=df3d41edffb6660014d4e202b2d45544afa67634)

60% of the time, Plymouth wins every time
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: realistic on November 20, 2008, 12:18:57 PM
Bombers - this comes up everytime someone plays Mount.  The fisher guys got riled up about the same thing before their game last year and again this season. 

What are they going to write?  Teams play their best against Mount and usually still lose.  Is it possible, yeah anything is.  Is it likely, no.  I don't know if you want them to make up something or have real analysis.  To me, thats real analysis since no one has stopped them recently.

If this was the late 80s, I imagine anyone analyzing it would have said the same thing about Dayton, Auagustana and sometimes IC.

Look, obviously, teams don't beat MUC, or even stay close, 90% of the time. I know that. But as you said, it's possible. So why not discuss the possibility? Obviously, it's going to be a talent level question most of the time, but even MUC guys admit this team has some weaknesses (for them at least). I wrote about a half dozen times in my original post that I know it's extremely unlikely, but there's always a possibility.

And as you said, other teams could have had that written about them as well, but I'd feel the same way if this were IC (IC's actually never been undefeated, so to ever write that about them would seem odd anyway) i'm not really upset. I don't think Ithaca's being "disrespected." I don't think they'll beat MUC either. But I'd like to know how they could. There's a difference. I even refered to it in my original post as something like: "What do they need to do to upset MUC?"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 20, 2008, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.

That's my question: What do the guys on the field need to do? How can they be sucessful?

As I said if you re-read my post, I know there's very little of a chance. No-one's saying you need to predict a loss if you don't see one. But to not even discuss what needs to happen for an upset to occur? To not even say, "Here's how Otterbein stuck with MUC for 20 minutes" or "Here's what Whitewater was able to do last season"? Something beyond just discarding the possibility of another team in the bracket doing anything as a pipe dream?

If Hobart is able to beat Lyco this weekend (certainly not a lock, but definitely possible), TGP is going to take a crack at some of these less than .0001% chance of happening scenarios and will post them in a Hobart vs. MUC preview.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:30:00 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 20, 2008, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.

That's my question: What do the guys on the field need to do? How can they be sucessful?

As I said if you re-read my post, I know there's very little of a chance. No-one's saying you need to predict a loss if you don't see one. But to not even discuss what needs to happen for an upset to occur? To not even say, "Here's how Otterbein stuck with MUC for 20 minutes" or "Here's what Whitewater was able to do last season"? Something beyond just discarding the possibility of another team in the bracket doing anything as a pipe dream?

If Hobart is able to beat Lyco this weekend (certainly not a lock, but definitely possible), TGP is going to take a crack at some of these less than .0001% chance of happening scenarios and will post them in a Hobart vs. MUC preview.

That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 20, 2008, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:30:00 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 20, 2008, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.

That's my question: What do the guys on the field need to do? How can they be sucessful?

As I said if you re-read my post, I know there's very little of a chance. No-one's saying you need to predict a loss if you don't see one. But to not even discuss what needs to happen for an upset to occur? To not even say, "Here's how Otterbein stuck with MUC for 20 minutes" or "Here's what Whitewater was able to do last season"? Something beyond just discarding the possibility of another team in the bracket doing anything as a pipe dream?

If Hobart is able to beat Lyco this weekend (certainly not a lock, but definitely possible), TGP is going to take a crack at some of these less than .0001% chance of happening scenarios and will post them in a Hobart vs. MUC preview.

That's all I'm saying.

798891, if you meander over to the OAC board and ask you may actually get an honest answer.  Most of the regular posters will tell you what is MUC's weakness' if any.  They are actually pretty forthcoming about the team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:48:49 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 20, 2008, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:30:00 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 20, 2008, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.

That's my question: What do the guys on the field need to do? How can they be sucessful?

As I said if you re-read my post, I know there's very little of a chance. No-one's saying you need to predict a loss if you don't see one. But to not even discuss what needs to happen for an upset to occur? To not even say, "Here's how Otterbein stuck with MUC for 20 minutes" or "Here's what Whitewater was able to do last season"? Something beyond just discarding the possibility of another team in the bracket doing anything as a pipe dream?

If Hobart is able to beat Lyco this weekend (certainly not a lock, but definitely possible), TGP is going to take a crack at some of these less than .0001% chance of happening scenarios and will post them in a Hobart vs. MUC preview.

That's all I'm saying.

798891, if you meander over to the OAC board and ask you may actually get an honest answer.  Most of the regular posters will tell you what is MUC's weakness' if any.  They are actually pretty forthcoming about the team.

And that's awesome. I'm glad to know that they haven't taken the "Why bother?" approach to discussing the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rscl70 on November 20, 2008, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: realistic on November 20, 2008, 12:18:57 PM
Bombers - this comes up everytime someone plays Mount.  The fisher guys got riled up about the same thing before their game last year and again this season. 

What are they going to write?  Teams play their best against Mount and usually still lose.  Is it possible, yeah anything is.  Is it likely, no.  I don't know if you want them to make up something or have real analysis.  To me, thats real analysis since no one has stopped them recently.

If this was the late 80s, I imagine anyone analyzing it would have said the same thing about Dayton, Auagustana and sometimes IC.

Look, obviously, teams don't beat MUC, or even stay close, 90% of the time. I know that. But as you said, it's possible. So why not discuss the possibility? Obviously, it's going to be a talent level question most of the time, but even MUC guys admit this team has some weaknesses (for them at least). I wrote about a half dozen times in my original post that I know it's extremely unlikely, but there's always a possibility.

And as you said, other teams could have had that written about them as well, but I'd feel the same way if this were IC (IC's actually never been undefeated, so to ever write that about them would seem odd anyway) i'm not really upset. I don't think Ithaca's being "disrespected." I don't think they'll beat MUC either. But I'd like to know how they could. There's a difference. I even refered to it in my original post as something like: "What do they need to do to upset MUC?"


If you want to upset MUC you need to stop the running game without opening up the passing lanes.  You need to force at least three turnovers.  On offense you need a big, quick O line and a good running back to pound the ball down the field, and make no turnovers yourself.  Add an average passing game to keep Mounts D honest and you have a chance.  Piece of cake.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:52:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:26:20 PMI even refered to it in my original post as something like: "What do they need to do to upset MUC?"


I think they each need to win two games before you can ask us to spend a whole lot of time dissecting that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:52:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:26:20 PMI even refered to it in my original post as something like: "What do they need to do to upset MUC?"


I think they each need to win two games before you can ask us to spend a whole lot of time dissecting that.

That's fair. And for the record, I wasn't asking for an in-depth dissertation on the subject. Just something other than a dismissive "Why bother?".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:58:56 PM
A lot more people likely saw what I had to say on ESPNews than will read the capsules. I don't believe Ithaca will win, however, if that game takes place. What I laid out on the selection show was in response to whether anyone can challenge Mount Union. Ithaca has the things going for it that I laid out on the selection show.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 01:04:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:58:56 PM
A lot more people likely saw what I had to say on ESPNews than will read the capsules. I don't believe Ithaca will win, however, if that game takes place. What I laid out on the selection show was in response to whether anyone can challenge Mount Union. Ithaca has the things going for it that I laid out on the selection show.

I mentioned your discussion on ESPN as well. I appreciate that. As I said, it's not so much the idea that "MUC is going to win the East" that bothers me. Just the occasional attitude from some--not necessarily you--that because they are, there's no need to debate further. Be it IC, Cortland, SJF, whoever, everyone has a chance in the playoffs, you know? I didn't mean to sound bitter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 20, 2008, 01:11:24 PM
Well, i  for one will enjoy sat. afternoon- no pins and needles this week.
Good luck IC, make the E8 proud, and here is to hoping that next year we see an east bracket WITHOUT MUC!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 20, 2008, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AMIf we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?

"So, you're telling me there's a chance!"

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.virginmedia.com%2Fmicrosites%2Fmovies%2Fslideshow%2Fstupid-characters%2Fimg_10.jpg&hash=2fb578478996340a2cacf66c1d2ebfaf9c9d9127)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 20, 2008, 01:34:20 PM
"Harry, your hands are freezing"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2008, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: rscl70 on November 20, 2008, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: realistic on November 20, 2008, 12:18:57 PM
Bombers - this comes up everytime someone plays Mount.  The fisher guys got riled up about the same thing before their game last year and again this season. 

What are they going to write?  Teams play their best against Mount and usually still lose.  Is it possible, yeah anything is.  Is it likely, no.  I don't know if you want them to make up something or have real analysis.  To me, thats real analysis since no one has stopped them recently.

If this was the late 80s, I imagine anyone analyzing it would have said the same thing about Dayton, Auagustana and sometimes IC.

Look, obviously, teams don't beat MUC, or even stay close, 90% of the time. I know that. But as you said, it's possible. So why not discuss the possibility? Obviously, it's going to be a talent level question most of the time, but even MUC guys admit this team has some weaknesses (for them at least). I wrote about a half dozen times in my original post that I know it's extremely unlikely, but there's always a possibility.

And as you said, other teams could have had that written about them as well, but I'd feel the same way if this were IC (IC's actually never been undefeated, so to ever write that about them would seem odd anyway) i'm not really upset. I don't think Ithaca's being "disrespected." I don't think they'll beat MUC either. But I'd like to know how they could. There's a difference. I even refered to it in my original post as something like: "What do they need to do to upset MUC?"


If you want to upset MUC you need to stop the running game without opening up the passing lanes.  You need to force at least three turnovers.  On offense you need a big, quick O line and a good running back to pound the ball down the field, and make no turnovers yourself.  Add an average passing game to keep Mounts D honest and you have a chance.  Piece of cake.

Almost sounds like Stagg Bowl '07... Hmmm.  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rscl70 on November 20, 2008, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2008, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: rscl70 on November 20, 2008, 12:51:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: realistic on November 20, 2008, 12:18:57 PM
Bombers - this comes up everytime someone plays Mount.  The fisher guys got riled up about the same thing before their game last year and again this season. 

What are they going to write?  Teams play their best against Mount and usually still lose.  Is it possible, yeah anything is.  Is it likely, no.  I don't know if you want them to make up something or have real analysis.  To me, thats real analysis since no one has stopped them recently.

If this was the late 80s, I imagine anyone analyzing it would have said the same thing about Dayton, Auagustana and sometimes IC.

Look, obviously, teams don't beat MUC, or even stay close, 90% of the time. I know that. But as you said, it's possible. So why not discuss the possibility? Obviously, it's going to be a talent level question most of the time, but even MUC guys admit this team has some weaknesses (for them at least). I wrote about a half dozen times in my original post that I know it's extremely unlikely, but there's always a possibility.

And as you said, other teams could have had that written about them as well, but I'd feel the same way if this were IC (IC's actually never been undefeated, so to ever write that about them would seem odd anyway) i'm not really upset. I don't think Ithaca's being "disrespected." I don't think they'll beat MUC either. But I'd like to know how they could. There's a difference. I even refered to it in my original post as something like: "What do they need to do to upset MUC?"


If you want to upset MUC you need to stop the running game without opening up the passing lanes.  You need to force at least three turnovers.  On offense you need a big, quick O line and a good running back to pound the ball down the field, and make no turnovers yourself.  Add an average passing game to keep Mounts D honest and you have a chance.  Piece of cake.

Almost sounds like Stagg Bowl '07... Hmmm.  :)

Thanks Frank - I knew I got the blueprint from somewhere. :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 04:30:00 PM
Quote from: JoseQViper on November 20, 2008, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 11:54:49 AMIf we're not even going to discuss the possibility of someone in the bracket pulling off the upset, what's the point?

"So, you're telling me there's a chance!"

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.virginmedia.com%2Fmicrosites%2Fmovies%2Fslideshow%2Fstupid-characters%2Fimg_10.jpg&hash=2fb578478996340a2cacf66c1d2ebfaf9c9d9127)

classic

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 04:48:13 PM
All this Ithaca/MUC talk makes gro say "Not so fast my friend"

Word on south hill is that Ithaca is trying to create their own version of Curry's purple drank in order to match the intensity and overall awesomeness of Dem Spicy Boyz... early trials have not gone well for the Bomber faithful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vFVnTMwt3w
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 20, 2008, 06:01:39 PM
I'm looking forward to a Mount-Ithica game if it happens, far more than this "weaks" Randolph Macon game. It's almost a vote to go back to 28 teams and give the 1 seeds the week off.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: TheApprentice on November 20, 2008, 06:09:37 PM
mind you all, if you're assuming MU/Ithaca will be a good game...

granted, it was week one, however, Lycoming lost to Ithaca 17-16 ... AT Ithaca. Just throwing that out there...

  :-X
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 20, 2008, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 20, 2008, 06:01:39 PM
I'm looking forward to a Mount-Ithica game if it happens, far more than this "weaks" Randolph Macon game. It's almost a vote to go back to 28 teams and give the 1 seeds the week off.

Ithica is not in the NCAA's...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 20, 2008, 06:16:44 PM
Quote from: TheApprentice on November 20, 2008, 06:09:37 PM
mind you all, if you're assuming MU/Ithaca will be a good game...

granted, it was week one, however, Lycoming lost to Ithaca 17-16 ... AT Ithaca. Just throwing that out there...

  :-X

You said it yourself, it was week one...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2008, 06:23:39 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 20, 2008, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 20, 2008, 06:01:39 PM
I'm looking forward to a Mount-Ithica game if it happens, far more than this "weaks" Randolph Macon game. It's almost a vote to go back to 28 teams and give the 1 seeds the week off.

Ithica is not in the NCAA's...

Ithica plays this Saterday.  Get it right.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 20, 2008, 08:49:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2008, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
That's up to the guys on the field but we're calling them as we see them.

That's my question: What do the guys on the field need to do? How can they be sucessful?

As I said if you re-read my post, I know there's very little of a chance. No-one's saying you need to predict a loss if you don't see one. But to not even discuss what needs to happen for an upset to occur? To not even say, "Here's how Otterbein stuck with MUC for 20 minutes" or "Here's what Whitewater was able to do last season"? Something beyond just discarding the possibility of another team in the bracket doing anything as a pipe dream?

I think if it was Cortland or IC, both teams would have to play a mistake free game, no turnovers, run the ball and eat up clock.  I think it would be paramount that either team keep MUC's defense off the field by converting on 3rd down.  Defensively, bend and allow FGs instead of TD's.  It will require some very big plays on both sides of the ball.  I don't think we have to pray for a divine intervention, it is just a matter of shortening the game and keeping MUC to as few plays as possible.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 21, 2008, 07:28:25 AM
ithica----hmmm is that up near utaca?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 21, 2008, 09:10:30 AM
Quote from: TheApprentice on November 20, 2008, 06:09:37 PM
mind you all, if you're assuming MU/Ithaca will be a good game...

granted, it was week one, however, Lycoming lost to Ithaca 17-16 ... AT Ithaca. Just throwing that out there...

  :-X

I'll agree with you The Apprentice to some extent.  The Lyco game made me very nervous.  Lyco had been a scheduled cupcake for us for two or three years (I flew up for the first meeting, which happened to be homecoming, and was thoroughly disappointed).  After we needed that 4th Quarter comeback to beat you this year, I figured we were overrated and in for a long fall. 

But, I should point out, that if the teams meet again, the game would also be AT Ithaca.  Just FYI.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 21, 2008, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 04:48:13 PM
All this Ithaca/MUC talk makes gro say "Not so fast my friend"

Word on south hill is that Ithaca is trying to create their own version of Curry's purple drank in order to match the intensity and overall awesomeness of Dem Spicy Boyz... early trials have not gone well for the Bomber faithful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vFVnTMwt3w

+k Gro.

This made me harken back to my youth when Florida State was desperately trying to produce something equal to Gatorade.  FSU alums that coached us were always offering us 10K, or AllSport, or whatever.

Bleh.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 09:47:50 AM
Quote from: JoseQViper on November 21, 2008, 09:10:30 AM
Quote from: TheApprentice on November 20, 2008, 06:09:37 PM
mind you all, if you're assuming MU/Ithaca will be a good game...

granted, it was week one, however, Lycoming lost to Ithaca 17-16 ... AT Ithaca. Just throwing that out there...

  :-X

I'll agree with you The Apprentice to some extent.  The Lyco game made me very nervous.  Lyco had been a scheduled cupcake for us for two or three years (I flew up for the first meeting, which happened to be homecoming, and was thoroughly disappointed).  After we needed that 4th Quarter comeback to beat you this year, I figured we were overrated and in for a long fall. 

But, I should point out, that if the teams meet again, the game would also be AT Ithaca.  Just FYI.

Plus, Ithaca, in the last few years, is a team that starts a little slow and hits their stride midseason. They are playing their best football of the season right now, and I think they would handle Lycoming rather painlessly right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2008, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: JoseQViper on November 21, 2008, 09:10:30 AM
Quote from: TheApprentice on November 20, 2008, 06:09:37 PM
mind you all, if you're assuming MU/Ithaca will be a good game...

granted, it was week one, however, Lycoming lost to Ithaca 17-16 ... AT Ithaca. Just throwing that out there...

  :-X

I'll agree with you The Apprentice to some extent.  The Lyco game made me very nervous.  Lyco had been a scheduled cupcake for us for two or three years (I flew up for the first meeting, which happened to be homecoming, and was thoroughly disappointed).  After we needed that 4th Quarter comeback to beat you this year, I figured we were overrated and in for a long fall. 

But, I should point out, that if the teams meet again, the game would also be AT Ithaca.  Just FYI.

I dont think Ithacas intent was to schedule a cupcake though right?  And they obviously werent this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JQV on November 21, 2008, 10:41:02 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2008, 09:49:05 AMI dont think Ithacas intent was to schedule a cupcake though right?  And they obviously werent this year.

I don't think it was.  They just happened to start playing Lyco during some down years.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 10:57:33 AM
Quote from: JoseQViper on November 21, 2008, 10:41:02 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2008, 09:49:05 AMI dont think Ithacas intent was to schedule a cupcake though right?  And they obviously werent this year.

I don't think it was.  They just happened to start playing Lyco during some down years.

The year befor Lycoming appeared on the schedule, I think they went 9-2. Lycoming also wouldn't qualify as a cupcake, at least not this season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
So the weather report in Ithaca tomorrow is calling for 2-4 inches of snow.

God I missed home playoff games!!!!!

(But seriously, anyone know WHEN tomorrow this snow is supposed to hit? I kinda don't want to go out in a blizzard)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2008, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
So the weather report in Ithaca tomorrow is calling for 2-4 inches of snow.

God I missed home playoff games!!!!!

(But seriously, anyone know WHEN tomorrow this snow is supposed to hit? I kinda don't want to go out in a blizzard)

Oh No!!!  That's all we need is for Ithaca to lose in a blizzard and have an excuse to lose!

Don't do it Ithaca!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2008, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
So the weather report in Ithaca tomorrow is calling for 2-4 inches of snow.

God I missed home playoff games!!!!!

(But seriously, anyone know WHEN tomorrow this snow is supposed to hit? I kinda don't want to go out in a blizzard)

Oh No!!!  That's all we need is for Ithaca to lose in a blizzard and have an excuse to lose!

Don't do it Ithaca!

Actually, when IC played RPI in 2003, RPI took a 14-0 lead in good weather and IC outscored them 16-7 the rest of the way when the snow hit. I think the coaching staff will have these kids prepared for the inclimate weather
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2008, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2008, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
So the weather report in Ithaca tomorrow is calling for 2-4 inches of snow.

God I missed home playoff games!!!!!

(But seriously, anyone know WHEN tomorrow this snow is supposed to hit? I kinda don't want to go out in a blizzard)

Oh No!!!  That's all we need is for Ithaca to lose in a blizzard and have an excuse to lose!

Don't do it Ithaca!

Actually, when IC played RPI in 2003, RPI took a 14-0 lead in good weather and IC outscored them 16-7 the rest of the way when the snow hit. I think the coaching staff will have these kids prepared for the inclimate weather

inclement

:-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:13:38 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 20, 2008, 04:48:13 PM
All this Ithaca/MUC talk makes gro say "Not so fast my friend"

Word on south hill is that Ithaca is trying to create their own version of Curry's purple drank in order to match the intensity and overall awesomeness of Dem Spicy Boyz... early trials have not gone well for the Bomber faithful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vFVnTMwt3w

Grape Lady is the BEST!!!!  "ooh ooh ooh, oww oww oww oww,ohh!!!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2008, 12:14:42 PM
If you want to beat Mount, there are 2 ways to do it:
1.  Mount plays sloppy and turns it over a ton (like versus ONU in '05).
2.  Win the battle at the line of scrimmage and tackle very well in open space.

Waiting for No. 1 to come true is a long shot.  Option No.2 you have some control over.  

In each of the MUC losses since 1992, there has been a reoccuring theme:  win the battle up front and you have good shot.


07 Stagg: Whitewater controlled the line of scrimmage with their O-line and got consistent pressure on Micheli without having to blitz.

05 against Ohio Northern: a rash of unforced turnovers did MUC in.  Sloppiest game I've seen MUC play in years.

04 Semi-Final against MHB:  Crusaders were able to ran the ball enough to wear down the Raider D and got a late turn-over in the 4th to help.

03 Stagg against St. John's:  best tackling team I've ever seen and a couple dumb MUC errors did them in.  SJU having the best player in the country sure helped too. ;D

99 semi-final against Rowan:  fumble return for a touchdown and a great D-line put Rowan over the top.

95 semi-finals against UW-La Crosse:  dominant LAX D and O-lines were the difference.

94 regional final against Albion:  freshman QB led Mount team lost to eventual champion 34-33 after missing 2 extra point kicks...... >:(

94 against Baldwin Wallace:  extremely young Raider team not yet ready for the bigtime after graduating everyone from 93 champs.

92 semi-finals agaisnt La Crosse:  dominant line play from LAX and 7 turn-overs did MUC in.



The line play is why I'm a little worried about this Mount team.  This is a very young and undersized O-line.  The skill folks are great, but the O-line is very average.  

And the D-line is very quick, but also very under-sized.  A power running team like Whitewater or Augustana will give this Mount team fits.  This team is built perfectly to defend the spread, not a power running game.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2008, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

You would have to pick an opponent for this to be a legit discussion.  They could not compete with the bestof those divisions.  but they could compete against a lot of them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 21, 2008, 12:19:31 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2008, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2008, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
So the weather report in Ithaca tomorrow is calling for 2-4 inches of snow.

God I missed home playoff games!!!!!

(But seriously, anyone know WHEN tomorrow this snow is supposed to hit? I kinda don't want to go out in a blizzard)

Oh No!!!  That's all we need is for Ithaca to lose in a blizzard and have an excuse to lose!

Don't do it Ithaca!

Actually, when IC played RPI in 2003, RPI took a 14-0 lead in good weather and IC outscored them 16-7 the rest of the way when the snow hit. I think the coaching staff will have these kids prepared for the inclimate weather

inclement

:-)


No, he is from Ithaca, he is right no matter what.  You should know that by now.  Especially in spelling and anything else that is academic.  

I find the allmighty IC grads especially funny since they arent even the smartest institute in their own town.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 21, 2008, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 21, 2008, 12:19:31 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2008, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2008, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
So the weather report in Ithaca tomorrow is calling for 2-4 inches of snow.

God I missed home playoff games!!!!!

(But seriously, anyone know WHEN tomorrow this snow is supposed to hit? I kinda don't want to go out in a blizzard)

Oh No!!!  That's all we need is for Ithaca to lose in a blizzard and have an excuse to lose!

Don't do it Ithaca!

Actually, when IC played RPI in 2003, RPI took a 14-0 lead in good weather and IC outscored them 16-7 the rest of the way when the snow hit. I think the coaching staff will have these kids prepared for the inclimate weather

inclement

:-)


No, he is from Ithaca, he is right no matter what.  You should know that by now.  Especially in spelling and anything else that is academic. 

I find the allmighty IC grads especially funny since they arent even the smartest institute in their own town. 


Maybe not, but at least we have the best football team in central NY.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 21, 2008, 12:32:08 PM
I still think SU could beat you in their darkest of days.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 21, 2008, 12:34:39 PM
Debateable.... I had forgotten about SU though, +k. (Could be called "upstate", eh?)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 21, 2008, 12:36:39 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 21, 2008, 12:14:42 PM
If you want to beat Mount, there are 2 ways to do it:
1.  Mount plays sloppy and turns it over a ton (like versus ONU in '05).
2.  Win the battle at the line of scrimmage and tackle very well in open space.

Waiting for No. 1 to come true is a long shot.  Option No.2 you have some control over.  

In each of the MUC losses since 1992, there has been a reoccuring theme:  win the battle up front and you have good shot.


07 Stagg: Whitewater controlled the line of scrimmage with their O-line and got consistent pressure on Micheli without having to blitz.

05 against Ohio Northern: a rash of unforced turnovers did MUC in.  Sloppiest game I've seen MUC play in years.

04 Semi-Final against MHB:  Crusaders were able to ran the ball enough to wear down the Raider D and got a late turn-over in the 4th to help.

03 Stagg against St. John's:  best tackling team I've ever seen and a couple dumb MUC errors did them in.  SJU having the best player in the country sure helped too. ;D

99 semi-final against Rowan:  fumble return for a touchdown and a great D-line put Rowan over the top.

95 semi-finals against UW-La Crosse:  dominant LAX D and O-lines were the difference.

94 regional final against Albion:  freshman QB led Mount team lost to eventual champion 34-33 after missing 2 extra point kicks...... >:(

94 against Baldwin Wallace:  extremely young Raider team not yet ready for the bigtime after graduating everyone from 93 champs.

92 semi-finals agaisnt La Crosse:  dominant line play from LAX and 7 turn-overs did MUC in.



The line play is why I'm a little worried about this Mount team.  This is a very young and undersized O-line.  The skill folks are great, but the O-line is very average.  

And the D-line is very quick, but also very under-sized.  A power running team like Whitewater or Augustana will give this Mount team fits.  This team is built perfectly to defend the spread, not a power running game.



So all MUC's losses in the past 16 years fit in one nice neat small post....HMMMMMM...boy that is something isnt it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 21, 2008, 12:45:25 PM
We have all forgotten about SU....That being said...you are good but would not beat Cornell or Colgate
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 21, 2008, 12:46:47 PM
I mentioned in a post earlier in the year that MUC seemed much smaller physically this year than in the 2006 play-off game ag. SJF.  Even in a loss, it seems that the same common denominators that helped those teams overcome MUC were present when SJF was within 4 with 7 minutes to go at MUC's 17 YD line.  We had a big powerful line and a powerful downhill running game. 

We did not turn the ball over and played good bend but dont break D.  The D created some timely turnovers as well.

The only thing that SJF did not do is tackle.  Obviously, Kmic has plenty to say about that, but, SJF was hitting him, just not taking him down.

At least from what I have seen in person over the past 3 seasons with MUC, SJF and IC, it seems that IC has a very similar game to what SJF put on the field in 2006 at Alliance.  I dont know if IC's defense is as fast and as athletic (Stepnick, et al), but create some turnovers and it IS all the same.  I look at IC's loss to SJF in week 4 like I do at SJF's loss to SC at home in week 6 or 7 of 2006.  It was one bad game, or quarter, and the rest of the games have been momentum building towards the play-offs.

We will see how srtong IC looks on Sat and see if they continue to build towards that opportunity to take on MUC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 21, 2008, 12:48:32 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 21, 2008, 12:45:25 PM
We have all forgotten about SU....That being said...you are good but would not beat Cornell or Colgate

We have beaten Cornell in the past.... I think that one would be a toss-up.
Title: The spelling board
Post by: seventiesraider on November 21, 2008, 01:02:56 PM
Didn't realize spelling was so important on this thread. I'll stick with IC, as long as it matters
Title: Re: The spelling board
Post by: SJFF82 on November 21, 2008, 03:02:40 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 21, 2008, 01:02:56 PM
Didn't realize spelling was so important on this thread. I'll stick with IC, as long as it matters

gould idea
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....

Yeah I dont like MUC's chances of taking out the App States, Younstown States, Richmonds of 1-AA....

Im sure they'd give them a great game though...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 21, 2008, 04:14:12 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....

Yeah I dont like MUC's chances of taking out the App States, Younstown States, Richmonds of 1-AA....

Im sure they'd give them a great game though...

they're gods in D3 lets leave it at that...I mean they have been tested by teams that nobody would acccuse of being on level with anything but D3, so lets not get crazy here.  Would 2006 SJF team give Youngstown a great game?  Would 2006 Capital?  How bout UWW?  And those challenges only come to MUC once a year.  12/14 every year is against OAC bottom feeders, not 1-AA competition
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 21, 2008, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....

Yeah I dont like MUC's chances of taking out the App States, Younstown States, Richmonds of 1-AA....

Im sure they'd give them a great game though...

I think MUC and other top tier DIII programs could compete with Div I FCS (formerly 1AA) non-scholarship programs such as in the Patriot and Ivy Leagues.  I don't think they win those leagues but they could be competetive.  I don't think Div. II is much different than good DIII.  Just my opinion.  I am sure that DII fans will disagree.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2008, 04:56:00 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 21, 2008, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....

Yeah I dont like MUC's chances of taking out the App States, Younstown States, Richmonds of 1-AA....

Im sure they'd give them a great game though...

I think MUC and other top tier DIII programs could compete with Div I FCS (formerly 1AA) non-scholarship programs such as in the Patriot and Ivy Leagues.  I don't think they win those leagues but they could be competetive.  I don't think Div. II is much different than good DIII.  Just my opinion.  I am sure that DII fans will disagree.

Top tier programs aside, every D2 game I have ever watched has been a step below dIII in my opinion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 21, 2008, 04:59:53 PM
I-AA and II programs vary by teams/conference it's not easy to compare teams. RPI has played some non-scholarship programs in the past: I-AA Siena, Albany (not sure if they played them when they moved to I-AA, I know Union did for a while), UMass-Lowell (D-II or DI-AA?), D-II Stonehill
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2008, 05:11:28 PM
Yeah non scholarship 1-AA is basically like D3...

I'd love to see MUC go against Youngstown St or Appalachian St just to see how they would stack up vs them....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 21, 2008, 05:22:15 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 21, 2008, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....

Yeah I dont like MUC's chances of taking out the App States, Younstown States, Richmonds of 1-AA....

Im sure they'd give them a great game though...

I think MUC and other top tier DIII programs could compete with Div I FCS (formerly 1AA) non-scholarship programs such as in the Patriot and Ivy Leagues.  I don't think they win those leagues but they could be competetive.  I don't think Div. II is much different than good DIII.  Just my opinion.  I am sure that DII fans will disagree.

Agreed.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 21, 2008, 05:23:28 PM
As I referenced in the LLPP in regards to Iona College, some of those non scholarship 1AA's are in name only.  Iona beat DVC in a close game correct?  It could be chalked up to being one of those days where things went wrong for DVC, rather than Iona flat out being better.  Comparing Good D3 to Good 1AA (Colgate, UNH,etc..) may be a different story.
Title: WICB's Coverage for Curry
Post by: WICB Sports on November 21, 2008, 06:00:13 PM
Just wanted to let all you loyal followers of Division-III football know that WICB will be having ALL the action from this weekends Ithaca-Curry game.  Here is the schedule of the day's events:

11:30 a.m. Countdown to Kickoff breaks down all the match-ups, including Coach Welch cuts, stories on Kyle Crandall, Chris Gray and the East Region Update.

noon--All the live action

Immediatly Following the game--Call in to Bombers Post-game, 607-274-3217...give Mike Hibbard and Josh Canu your thoughts on the game as they break down the game.

here is the link to the site (NOTE: There is two ways to listen to the game on our site.  The first and most common method is to click the listen live button right on our site.  The Second, is a feature we have added so that everyone is able to tune in without the system every overfilling.  You can get to this option by clicking the football box on the top right portion of the screen, that will take you to Stretch Internet, where you hit listen, and you will be all set for the broadcast)

WICB- http://wicb.org/

VIC -http://vicradio.org/ (will also have the call)

Hope to see everyone at Butterfield tomorrow for what is sure to be a cold, cold game...

Enjoy the broadcast!

Sincerely,
Lee
WICB Sports Director
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2008, 06:00:52 PM
U89 and I went back and forth on this a few years back, but some of these Patriot/Ivy league teams are pretty good.  If Harvard played Mt. Union right now, Harvard would win 35-10.  Ive seen MUC live and they are a d3 team. SJF has a bigger line.  The defense is tough, but Harvard and the top Ivy/Patriot league teams have 6-6/300 nfl prospect linemen in some cases that would even push MUC around.  I know Holy Cross is up and down but the Ivy league is different than it was 10 years ago even.

At IC we used to give Cornell a good half and sometimes even be up at the half.  They had bigger lines but their linebackers and d-backs were nothing special from what I remember.  Even that Chad Levit kid didnt impress me a whole heck of a lot.  Seth Payne on the other hand was a monster.  Cornell also never tried to smash it down our throats either as both teams tried to mix it up a lot.  In general I was never impressed with Cornells defense ,except for Payne who was the best player I had EVER been on the field with at the same time.  Payne made R-Kal Truluck look like one of the care bears.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 21, 2008, 06:03:16 PM
Pat: "Next Question"

God, I hope someone beats Mount Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on November 21, 2008, 07:00:52 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 21, 2008, 06:03:16 PM
Pat: "Next Question"

God, I hope someone beats Mount Union.

UWW did, just last year. :-[ :'(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 07:15:07 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 21, 2008, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: PantherPr1de on November 21, 2008, 12:16:29 PM
How well do you think Mount Union would fair in Division II, and even Division IAA?

1-AA? RT isn't buying that....

yes...RT should've qualified his post...he meant scholarship IAA teams and the "real" echelon of D2 (East Stroudsburg, Indian (PA), Carson Newman, etc)....forget the Siena's or Bentley's of the world. Mount Union is the top D3 team...they'd get smoked by anyone in the top 25 of IAA or probably top 25 of DII
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2008, 08:27:53 PM
The opinion of a very well respected D3 head coach that I know who is now coaching in D1-AA indicated that the skill people in D1-AA and D3 are the same.  The difference is along the lines.  There is a HUGE difference in the size, strength and speed in the lineman at the upper levels.  There are always exceptions to the rule and upsets happen, but I seriously doubt Mount would hang with a legit D1-AA team.  And I'm as big a MUC guy as there is.

Now when it comes to NAIA, I think the upper 20% of D3 is well above NAIA.  I've coached a couple players in HS that were multi-year starters on playoff NAIA teams that would have never seen the field at Mount.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2008, 08:34:42 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 21, 2008, 08:27:53 PM
The opinion of a very well respected D3 head coach that I know who is now coaching in D1-AA indicated that the skill people in D1-AA and D3 are the same.  The difference is along the lines.  There is a HUGE difference in the size, strength and speed in the lineman at the upper levels.  There are always exceptions to the rule and upsets happen, but I seriously doubt Mount would hang with a legit D1-AA team.  And I'm as big a MUC guy as there is.

Now when it comes to NAIA, I think the upper 20% of D3 is well above NAIA.  I've coached a couple players in HS that were multi-year starters on playoff NAIA teams that would have never seen the field at Mount.   

Good points.  Another thing I always noticed (I see a lot of Colonial League football) is the speed of the linebackers.  Those guys can fly to the ball and do not miss tackles like a lot of d3 guys do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 21, 2008, 09:04:28 PM
Different topic, but a buddy of mine played sprint ball at Penn.  Watched them one night over at Cornell.   THOSE LITTLE GUYS FLY AND HIT.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 22, 2008, 07:31:15 AM
Game Notes for Hobart - Lyco:

http://www.hwsathletics.com/documents/2008/11/21/Lyco.pdf

Heading up again this week and just checked the weather and Geneva has a high of 22 with some snow and feels like 13.  Thank god they don't check for flasks at "security".

The game notes indicate that Vella is starting at QB for Bart.  Should be interesting.  I'm hoping for and expecting a win (a close one, probably 5 - 3 or something like that), but either way the number of Freshman and Sophs at skill positions (Vella, Tritten @ RB, Marsh @TE, Muratori @ WR, Schettine @ WR, Woodard @ DB) getting big game experience will be huge for the coming years. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 09:32:07 AM
LET'S GO BART!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 09:33:10 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 09:32:07 AM
LET'S GO BART!!!!

LET'S ****ING GO BART!!!

That's better ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers on November 22, 2008, 11:18:10 AM
Anyone know why there is no video broadcast of the Ithaca game, being that it is at home????
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 12:05:33 PM
MUC goes 5 plays all on the ground on their first drive for a TD...

well there goes any chance of an upset...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 22, 2008, 12:09:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 22, 2008, 12:05:33 PM
MUC goes 5 plays all on the ground on their first drive for a TD...

well there goes any chance of an upset...
Hate to pat our own backs, but this Husson radio crew is not good.   Im pulling out my HAIR that I am not there....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 12:10:56 PM
UPSET ALERT!!!!

6-0 CURRY

WHO DAT GON BEAT CURRY WHO DAT???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 12:10:56 PM
UPSET ALERT!!!!

6-0 CURRY

WHO DAT GON BEAT CURRY WHO DAT???

LDogg, we'll be doing in-games over on the E8 update board as a concession to Pat.
Quote from: gobombers on November 22, 2008, 11:18:10 AM
Anyone know why there is no video broadcast of the Ithaca game, being that it is at home????

See E8 board, look at yesterday afternoon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 12:09:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 22, 2008, 12:05:33 PM
MUC goes 5 plays all on the ground on their first drive for a TD...

well there goes any chance of an upset...
Hate to pat our own backs, but this Husson radio crew is not good.   Im pulling out my HAIR that I am not there....

Totally agree...

These guys are horrible...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 12:22:22 PM
9 minutes in and its 21-0 MUC...

5 play drive all on the ground for their first TD by Michelli

2 play drive all on the ground for their 2nd TD by Kmic

Pick 6 for their 3rd TD...

This could get really ugly...

Triple digits??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 22, 2008, 12:33:01 PM
6-0 PSU
7-6 Ithaca

Uh... Maybe we shouldn't have rattled on the NEFC so much? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 12:37:51 PM
Cortland up 7-6 on Guilianos run.  Cortland cheerleaders look cold.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 12:38:44 PM
PG whats the Wick-Port score??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 12:41:04 PM
Cortland ball after just missing blocking a punt....good field position here.....a TD would be big to get the momentum going
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 22, 2008, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 22, 2008, 12:38:44 PM
PG whats the Wick-Port score??

The game doesn't start til 1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 12:44:00 PM
TD Dragons! Miles to Hajnos deep over the middle.  Lang hits 14-6. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 22, 2008, 12:45:04 PM
Now Cortland's on the right track.   Looks like they may have turned on the jets as expected. 

They just said Cortland won the Cross Country National Championship too. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 12:49:59 PM
PSU goes for it on 4th and 13 in DRagon territory and INCOMPLETE!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 12:50:55 PM
Plymouth has some speed for sure and alot of big play potential.  But they look overmatched.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 12:51:28 PM
get a TD here right before half and hopefully they fold
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 12:59:34 PM
Cortland FG 17-6! Lang is Money!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 22, 2008, 01:00:58 PM
MUC carnage update?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 01:01:51 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 22, 2008, 01:00:58 PM
MUC carnage update?

Still 21-0...

But MUC is inside the redzone...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 01:03:14 PM
28-0 MUC...

1:00 left in half...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:23:57 PM
Looks like the snow has stopped in Cortland.........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 01:25:22 PM
Did anyone just see the ridiculous 'overweight kid celebration' in Cortland.  I almost bashed my beer on my face watching it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:27:26 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 01:25:22 PM
Did anyone just see the ridiculous 'overweight kid celebration' in Cortland.  I almost bashed my beer on my face watching it.

Missed it.



Okma and "The Mack" go 3 and out.

Big play screen pass for Cortland to the 20.

PSU punter is dangerous ebcause he is so bad he can't reach the punt returner and I feel like its gonna hit one of our guys running 10 yards down the field to block.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 01:28:01 PM
Where is that Muhlenburg guy who was telling us how awesome they were and how this is their year?  They are getting beat down....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 01:28:01 PM
Where is that Muhlenburg guy who was telling us how awesome they were and how this is their year?  They are getting beat down....

Ha, awesome!!

Other scores:

SJF-7, Husson-0
Wick 14, Port-7
RMC-0, MUC 28
-RMC is inside MUC's 20yd line as we speak (or type)...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:30:48 PM
Guiliano for 15 to the 5!

RUN THE FOOTBALL!

annddddddddddd Miles throws incomplete on first down!!!

RUN THE FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!

Guiliano short on 2nd won.

RUN THE FOOTBALL!

Miles TD pass!

oh well. TD Dragons!  23-6! Lang hits! 24-6

Lets get a 3 and out and another TD and that should do it!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:32:24 PM
Beat em down!....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 01:33:03 PM
According to Frank 'The Tank' Rossi, this is ALL Okma's fault, for awakening a sleeping dragon, as Cortland was 'running on empty'.....

tee hee
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:33:50 PM
another long pass play....god our secondary scares me
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 22, 2008, 01:34:39 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealthcoastconference.com%2Fimages%2Fgen%2F2007%2F8%2F31%2Fcurry-color.jpg&hash=e1507432078c65914d4b14465d312ecc3fd100b3)
I say, I say, I say please pass the purple drank dear sir
I sho' is tasty even on a cold day in central New York, I do declare.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:35:04 PM
Mack for -2

Fullback for 12 on a draw.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 01:35:12 PM
MUC stops RMC on downs and takes over...

Kmic today-
14 carries 247yds

He'll get 1,000yds in the playoffs alone...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:36:52 PM
big pass play for PSU to the cortland 1............

and holding brings it back....



PSU has had 3 HUGE penalties


and the secondary still scares me
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 22, 2008, 01:38:47 PM
TD Curry, 2nd blocked PAT...

This bodes bad. 14-12 IC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 01:39:25 PM
MUC 35-RMC 0

And here comes the rain...

Kmick-16 carries 263 yds 2 tds...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:39:41 PM
on 2nd down they go right back at the xcorner and he makes a nice play to break it up


3rd and 16 cortland timeout
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 22, 2008, 01:40:35 PM
Ithaca almost loses the onside kick... come on guys, tighten up.


EDIT: Curry awarded the ball after all. ICB Announcer: "I'm literally confused."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 22, 2008, 01:38:47 PM
TD Curry, 2nd blocked PAT...

This bodes bad. 14-12 IC.

wow

that kicking game must be abd


3rd and 16
PSU qb runs for the first and then coughs it up!!

put it away boys!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 01:42:27 PM
TD Kmic...

282, 3tds 17 carries...

42-0...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:43:07 PM
Miles with a 75 yard TD bomb!

called back
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:44:14 PM
Cortland TD pass called back.  The 30 spot will have to wait due to an illegal shift.  Slot was leaning forward while the backside flanker was motioning across to trips.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:44:43 PM
GREAT PLAY CALL!

wr comes in motion and takes off on a wheel route as the CB is slow to get over and then cannot retreat fast enough

only problem is the wr never came set

that would have ended the game

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 22, 2008, 01:45:38 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 22, 2008, 01:42:27 PM
TD Kmic...

282, 3tds 17 carries...

42-0...

almost 17 yds A CARRY.

amazing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:46:08 PM
Go for it!  Got it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 22, 2008, 01:46:26 PM
I hate to say it, but Ithaca looks to be very fortunate to be winning this game.  Curry up 290 yards to 135 for Ithaca.

The Bombers better wake up pretty quickly here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:47:01 PM
4th and inches and Miles picks it up.  A time eating TD drive is what I need.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 01:47:12 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 01:46:26 PM
I hate to say it, but Ithaca looks to be very fortunate to be winning this game.  Curry up 290 yards to 135 for Ithaca.

The Bombers better wake up pretty quickly here.

TD Curry...18-14 going for 2
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 22, 2008, 01:47:18 PM
Wrong.

18-14 Curry.

WTF.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:48:33 PM
Upset Alert.....Whats happening over on The Hill?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:49:15 PM
Punt team!

MUFF IT!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 01:49:25 PM
Who is looking forward to Curry/Cortland next week? I'm getting sick listening to this. And the ICB guys are clearly getting frustrated, too, which only raises my blood pressure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:50:09 PM
Punt inside the 10! 

ITHACA........

ITHACA........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:53:10 PM
Solid 24 yard punt on Plymouyth's behalf.  Cortland gets the ball within a sniff of the red zone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:54:03 PM
Cortland's' webcast is pretty good.  Too bad you can't maximize it to full screen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:54:41 PM
that punter is terrible but give him credit ffor getting that off.............we have been so close and i thought for sure wed get that with him in the back of his endzone.........


stop throwing the ball!!! run it and eat some time!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 22, 2008, 01:56:13 PM
Ithaca blocks the punt.... let's see if they can't waste this field position....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 01:58:08 PM
IC really running up the blocked kicks stat today.  A punt and 2 PATs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 01:59:21 PM
another long pass attempt that was oh so close, i hope PSU doesnt start spreading us out
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:05:50 PM
cortland takes over on PSU's 35 after PSU cant convert 4th and 16


CORTLAND TD!!!!!!!!!

game! blouses!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 02:06:02 PM
Just saw a kid give a lesson on how to make an Omlette in a bag on ESPN's coverage of the WV-Louisville game.  XRed is a......Oh Snap....TD Dragons.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:07:24 PM
Lang hits! 31-6!

wr bubble screen to the house!

Th O-Coord, and Miles are answering cstates criticism with big games!

Whatever Miles relative was on here this week should be proud!!


OKMA! OKMA! OKMA!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 22, 2008, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 02:06:02 PM
Just saw a kid give a lesson on how to make an Omlette in a bag on ESPN's coverage of the WV-Louisville game.  XRed is a......Oh Snap....TD Dragons.  


That omlette actually looked pretty good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 22, 2008, 02:10:33 PM
Gro thought the PSC/Cortland game was going to be closer...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:13:11 PM
"The Mack" barely picks up 4th and inches after a stupid Cortland penalty.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 02:15:07 PM
Plymouth lacks the "Purple Power" that Curry possess's.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:16:33 PM
our secondary sucks.....4th and 11 and we give it up
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 02:17:06 PM
Cortland's secondary is pretty weak. They're getting passed all over by a team who started experimenting with the forward pass around Week 6.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 22, 2008, 02:17:31 PM
guys just chimed in...  what is the Ithaca score and Corltand score?  Thanks
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:18:12 PM
then again we do look to be in the prevent and not get beat deep


gb15, you might have other things to be worrying about right now
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:19:11 PM
nah i was right! OUR SECONDARY IS TERRIBLE


td pass bad guys
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 02:19:42 PM
They are horrid back there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 02:19:42 PM
They are horrid back there.


i told everyone 3 weeks ago and i got the prevent arguement
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:30:45 PM
its over!!!!

what were "The Macks" final numbers????


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 22, 2008, 02:31:39 PM
Finally we get a pick!  Nice job men!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 02:34:52 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fseattlemoves.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F08%2Fsb-golden-curry-chukara.jpg&hash=26123af09bcc09f67e0973e45244de8d1247bd0d)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 02:38:30 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3141%2F2571084924_fb5db672a6_o.jpg&hash=ab084c79feca89c0572954c257fb10671589eb25)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 02:47:38 PM
BRING ON CURRY!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

I am with you on this one U89. My mouth is shut regarding Curry. They closed my mouth up today and really proved to me that I have made some comments of poor taste previously regarding this team. I am eating crow as we speak. With their win today I don't know what to think about next week. They definitely can win next week. Will they I don't know?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2008, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2008, 07:47:44 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM


#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART


LOL...+17.5?? Has hscoach seen Hobart this year? Nothing personal but the last 2 weeks haven't exactly been an offensive juggernaut up there in Geneva. If hobart wins this game, it's less then 8 points.

phone it in


Quote from: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 18, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
The line was set by a MUC/OAC person dumbass so they didn't really have strong insight a clue into either team and take the points on that. 

Fixed.

Spread:
Lycoming (+17.5) at Hobart

Final score:
Hobart 33
Lycoming 15

;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 22, 2008, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2008, 07:47:44 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM


#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART


LOL...+17.5?? Has hscoach seen Hobart this year? Nothing personal but the last 2 weeks haven't exactly been an offensive juggernaut up there in Geneva. If hobart wins this game, it's less then 8 points.

phone it in


Quote from: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 18, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
The line was set by a MUC/OAC person dumbass so they didn't really have strong insight a clue into either team and take the points on that. 

Fixed.

Spread:
Lycoming (+17.5) at Hobart

Final score:
Hobart 33
Lycoming 15

;D


Congratulations...

Here's a cookie for you...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AqflG4_hqQkNUMM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.driveinpodcast.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F04%2Fchocolate_chip_cookie.jpg&hash=08ac44fe8dac3b517119d5b44acf52547f3ecab1)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 22, 2008, 04:09:16 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 22, 2008, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 16, 2008, 07:47:44 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 16, 2008, 07:38:35 PM


#5 LYCOMING (+17.5) at #4 HOBART


LOL...+17.5?? Has hscoach seen Hobart this year? Nothing personal but the last 2 weeks haven't exactly been an offensive juggernaut up there in Geneva. If hobart wins this game, it's less then 8 points.

phone it in


Quote from: 'gro on November 18, 2008, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 18, 2008, 01:01:24 PM
The line was set by a MUC/OAC person dumbass so they didn't really have strong insight a clue into either team and take the points on that. 

Fixed.

Spread:
Lycoming (+17.5) at Hobart

Final score:
Hobart 33
Lycoming 15

;D


Please print this post off and bring it to work on Monday so everyone knows how cool you are.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2008, 04:13:10 PM
The same Ithaca that loses at home to Curry was supposed to be the East team with the best shot at knocking out the Raiders? 

That's funny.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 04:17:43 PM
Quote from: hscoach on November 22, 2008, 04:13:10 PM
The same Ithaca that loses at home to Curry was supposed to be the East team with the best shot at knocking out the Raiders? 

That's funny.

Umm take that up with Ithaca then...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 04:18:19 PM
yea, I understand that Curry's passing game is solid and that our secondary is weak.  But why is noone mentioning the flip side?

The fact is PSU BEAT Curry and PSU is a running team.  Guess what, Cortland is a much better version of the PSU offense with Guiliano.  The bigger question is can they step our run?  If we can run the ball and control the clock then how much of that Curry passing game can we see?

                                CUR      PSU

FIRST DOWNS...................       17       16
 Rushing.....................        2       12
 Passing.....................       14        3
 Penalty.....................        1        1
NET YARDS RUSHING.............       12      248
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 04:20:23 PM
Guiliano 19-117 1 TD
Mack 27-103 0 TD's

You wouldn't be the leading rusher in the NJAC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 05:01:34 PM
Oh well, glad Hobart won. At least RT admits when he made a mistake...some posters spend their time making excuses when they are wrong. Nice win by Bart...surprising they handled Lycoming like that. Good luck against MUC. Will be pulling for you.

...Phone that in too
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 22, 2008, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

Looks like PS passed the ball pretty well today, especially for a team without a passing game! If Curry can pass the ball, in general, they will absolutely have a chance to beat Cortland!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2008, 06:23:30 PM
And in a complete switch from last year:

Liberty League 2-0

Empire 8 1-3

Take note PC and KMack.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 04:18:19 PM
yea, I understand that Curry's passing game is solid and that our secondary is weak.  But why is noone mentioning the flip side?

The fact is PSU BEAT Curry and PSU is a running team.  Guess what, Cortland is a much better version of the PSU offense with Guiliano.  The bigger question is can they step our run?  If we can run the ball and control the clock then how much of that Curry passing game can we see?

                                CUR      PSU

FIRST DOWNS...................       17       16
 Rushing.....................        2       12
 Passing.....................       14        3
 Penalty.....................        1        1
NET YARDS RUSHING.............       12      248

The obvious flaw in your argument, of course, is that Ithaca is a better rushing team, statistically, than Cortland and Curry beat Ithaca.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 22, 2008, 07:20:06 PM
i will look up the statistics later, but after watching cortaca you really feel  that IC was the better rushing team?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

LD great post.  I think this game (IC/Curry) was a game of emotions.  And I don't know how much it was a factor, but Curry's defensive coordinator (Todd Nestor Ithaca '95) knows his stuff.  Plus, Bill Struzzi (Ithaca '07) is also on the staff and has a first hand knowledge of a lot of what Ithaca has going on.  I think that may have been a  big factor.  I just get the feeling on here sometimes that just because there is an NEFC team in the playoffs, that they have some coaching staff with a bunch of NEFC grads who have never seen the playoffs and might choke for some reason.  That is not the case.

And lets look at all the factors going into this game. 

-IC not knowing they are in the playoffs before last week,
-IC playing in front of 10,000 last week and 2,000 (dont know?) this week.
-IC high and sailing after a HUGE win last week
-Curry being disrespected all the time
-Curry beign the underdog
-IC looking towards next week.

Thats why point spreads always look at trends.  Good teams can beat bad teams on most given days.  Curry was too good for this to happen today.  That was the problem today.



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

LD great post.  I think this game (IC/Curry) was a game of emotions.  And I don't know how much it was a factor, but Curry's defensive coordinator (Todd Nestor Ithaca '95) knows his stuff.  Plus, Bill Struzzi (Ithaca '07) is also on the staff and has a first hand knowledge of a lot of what Ithaca has going on.  I think that may have been a  big factor.  I just get the feeling on here sometimes that just because there is an NEFC team in the playoffs, that they have some coaching staff with a bunch of NEFC grads who have never seen the playoffs and might choke for some reason.  That is not the case.

And lets look at all the factors going into this game. 

-IC not knowing they are in the playoffs before last week,
-IC playing in front of 10,000 last week and 2,000 (dont know?) this week.
-IC high and sailing after a HUGE win last week
-Curry being disrespected all the time
-Curry beign the underdog
-IC looking towards next week.

Thats why point spreads always look at trends.  Good teams can beat bad teams on most given days.  Curry was too good for this to happen today.  That was the problem today.





Curry must've had a sitdown with King's Point last week.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 22, 2008, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

LD great post.  I think this game (IC/Curry) was a game of emotions.  And I don't know how much it was a factor, but Curry's defensive coordinator (Todd Nestor Ithaca '95) knows his stuff.  Plus, Bill Struzzi (Ithaca '07) is also on the staff and has a first hand knowledge of a lot of what Ithaca has going on.  I think that may have been a  big factor.  I just get the feeling on here sometimes that just because there is an NEFC team in the playoffs, that they have some coaching staff with a bunch of NEFC grads who have never seen the playoffs and might choke for some reason.  That is not the case.

And lets look at all the factors going into this game. 

-IC not knowing they are in the playoffs before last week,
-IC playing in front of 10,000 last week and 2,000 (dont know?) this week.
-IC high and sailing after a HUGE win last week
-Curry being disrespected all the time
-Curry beign the underdog
-IC looking towards next week.

Thats why point spreads always look at trends.  Good teams can beat bad teams on most given days.  Curry was too good for this to happen today.  That was the problem today.





I see what you're saying Utah, but ITHACA is too good to let this happen.  You are at home....in the playoffs....against a team which beat a conference rival last year in the first round.  For Curry to come into Butterfield and take this game from the Bombers who were the hottest team in the East speaks volumes about the program's current mind set....I respect and root for Ithaca in the E8....this loss will force the program to do some soul searching.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:51:07 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

LD great post.  I think this game (IC/Curry) was a game of emotions.  And I don't know how much it was a factor, but Curry's defensive coordinator (Todd Nestor Ithaca '95) knows his stuff.  Plus, Bill Struzzi (Ithaca '07) is also on the staff and has a first hand knowledge of a lot of what Ithaca has going on.  I think that may have been a  big factor.  I just get the feeling on here sometimes that just because there is an NEFC team in the playoffs, that they have some coaching staff with a bunch of NEFC grads who have never seen the playoffs and might choke for some reason.  That is not the case.

And lets look at all the factors going into this game. 

-IC not knowing they are in the playoffs before last week,
-IC playing in front of 10,000 last week and 2,000 (dont know?) this week.
-IC high and sailing after a HUGE win last week
-Curry being disrespected all the time
-Curry beign the underdog
-IC looking towards next week.

Thats why point spreads always look at trends.  Good teams can beat bad teams on most given days.  Curry was too good for this to happen today.  That was the problem today.





I see what you're saying Utah, but ITHACA is too good to let this happen.  You are at home....in the playoffs....against a team which beat a conference rival last year in the first round.  For Curry to come into Butterfield and take this game from the Bombers who were the hottest team in the East speaks volumes about the program's current mind set....I respect and root for Ithaca in the E8....this loss will force the program to do some soul searching.

I agree that some lessons will be learned here (soul searching), but "good" teams simply don't let this happen.  You are 100% right there.  That is why Curry won the game.  They were better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

LD great post.  I think this game (IC/Curry) was a game of emotions.  And I don't know how much it was a factor, but Curry's defensive coordinator (Todd Nestor Ithaca '95) knows his stuff.  Plus, Bill Struzzi (Ithaca '07) is also on the staff and has a first hand knowledge of a lot of what Ithaca has going on.  I think that may have been a  big factor.  I just get the feeling on here sometimes that just because there is an NEFC team in the playoffs, that they have some coaching staff with a bunch of NEFC grads who have never seen the playoffs and might choke for some reason.  That is not the case.

And lets look at all the factors going into this game. 

-IC not knowing they are in the playoffs before last week,
-IC playing in front of 10,000 last week and 2,000 (dont know?) this week.
-IC high and sailing after a HUGE win last week
-Curry being disrespected all the time
-Curry beign the underdog
-IC looking towards next week.

Thats why point spreads always look at trends.  Good teams can beat bad teams on most given days.  Curry was too good for this to happen today.  That was the problem today.





I see what you're saying Utah, but ITHACA is too good to let this happen.  You are at home....in the playoffs....against a team which beat a conference rival last year in the first round.  For Curry to come into Butterfield and take this game from the Bombers who were the hottest team in the East speaks volumes about the program's current mind set....I respect and root for Ithaca in the E8....this loss will force the program to do some soul searching.


eh, U89, not sure anymore in the East if RT buys your logic....RT thought RPI was "too good" to let the last reg season home game at '86 be a defeat w/ the AQ on the line. Then he though they were "too good" to lose to KP in the finale w/ a pool C on the line.  The fact is the Curry is probably better then we thought. Didn't IC lose to SJF this year?? These things happen.....they were probably hung over from Cortica
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 22, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
Hungover from Cortaca?  It was a huge game to be sure but it was only Cortaca...this was the NCAA playoffs and a team has to get up for that.  Respecting IC as I do, Cortaca was a memory and had no impact on this team.  What happened to IC was Curry, and believe me...Cortland just got a big wake up call.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 08:14:29 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 22, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
Hungover from Cortaca?  It was a huge game to be sure but it was only Cortaca...this was the NCAA playoffs and a team has to get up for that.  Respecting IC as I do, Cortaca was a memory and had no impact on this team.  What happened to IC was Curry, and believe me...Cortland just got a big wake up call.

who knows cland fan.  Thats a huge emotional swing.  It has to mean something.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 22, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
Hungover from Cortaca?  It was a huge game to be sure but it was only Cortaca...this was the NCAA playoffs and a team has to get up for that.  Respecting IC as I do, Cortaca was a memory and had no impact on this team.  What happened to IC was Curry, and believe me...Cortland just got a big wake up call.

RT doesnt doubt that IC was focused on the NCAAs but, to a man, you can't tell RT that IC wasn't riding high from knocking off a #1 East ranked Cortland at their dojo then would have a chance for round 2 in the playoffs to get to MUC. Sure Curry was 9-1 but RT feels pretty confident that IC didn't expect this kind of game. RT has been there as a player. It's not like you intentionally look past someone but it's hard not to think about something bigger down the road (like Cortica II)...especially when the NEFC has the perception they've had. RT agrees Cortland has a wake-up call and needs to take this VERY seriously
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:31:59 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 22, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
Hungover from Cortaca?  It was a huge game to be sure but it was only Cortaca...this was the NCAA playoffs and a team has to get up for that.  Respecting IC as I do, Cortaca was a memory and had no impact on this team.  What happened to IC was Curry, and believe me...Cortland just got a big wake up call.

There was a letdown, for sure. Again, take nothing away from Curry, they deserved the win. As JU touched on, I think they spent a week hearing about how they were the best team in the region, how they'd be playing Cortaca 2.0, thinking about everything except Curry, etc. I think the Bombers thought the only prerequisite to winning today was showing up. Obviously, that wasn't true. They learned a hard lesson today. It's a shame.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 08:33:09 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2008, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
I made the point earlier in the week that if Curry won the NEFC and Plymouth was 9-1, the should not and would not have given the Pool C to the NEFC.  However, it was the other way around, and it was Curry hoping for the bid.  They deserved it 100% and they showed it today.  Do I think Ithaca would beat them 9 out of 10?  Yes.  Do I think they can beat Cortland?  Nah.  But the bottom line is, Curry has been there for so many years, that they know how to compete with the big dogs now.  The rest of the league still can not.  Unfortunately, the rest of the NEFC being unable and unwilling to catch up will hold Curry back from being nationally respected.


Agreed with must everything, but........I feel Curry CAN beat Cortland.  I think Cortland will win, but I think Curry has a shot with that passing game and Cortland's lack of passing D.  Curry matches up better with Cortland than Ithaca and they dominated Ithaca statistically.

LD great post.  I think this game (IC/Curry) was a game of emotions.  And I don't know how much it was a factor, but Curry's defensive coordinator (Todd Nestor Ithaca '95) knows his stuff.  Plus, Bill Struzzi (Ithaca '07) is also on the staff and has a first hand knowledge of a lot of what Ithaca has going on.  I think that may have been a  big factor.  I just get the feeling on here sometimes that just because there is an NEFC team in the playoffs, that they have some coaching staff with a bunch of NEFC grads who have never seen the playoffs and might choke for some reason.  That is not the case.

And lets look at all the factors going into this game. 

-IC not knowing they are in the playoffs before last week,
-IC playing in front of 10,000 last week and 2,000 (dont know?) this week.
-IC high and sailing after a HUGE win last week
-Curry being disrespected all the time
-Curry beign the underdog
-IC looking towards next week.

Thats why point spreads always look at trends.  Good teams can beat bad teams on most given days.  Curry was too good for this to happen today.  That was the problem today.





I see what you're saying Utah, but ITHACA is too good to let this happen.  You are at home....in the playoffs....against a team which beat a conference rival last year in the first round.  For Curry to come into Butterfield and take this game from the Bombers who were the hottest team in the East speaks volumes about the program's current mind set....I respect and root for Ithaca in the E8....this loss will force the program to do some soul searching.

And I don't think its fair to say the programs current mind set compared to the teams current mind set.  And we are speculating both ways.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 22, 2008, 08:10:08 PM
Hungover from Cortaca?  It was a huge game to be sure but it was only Cortaca...this was the NCAA playoffs and a team has to get up for that.  Respecting IC as I do, Cortaca was a memory and had no impact on this team.  What happened to IC was Curry, and believe me...Cortland just got a big wake up call.

RT doesnt doubt that IC was focused on the NCAAs but, to a man, you can't tell RT that IC wasn't riding high from knocking off a #1 East ranked Cortland at their dojo then would have a chance for round 2 in the playoffs to get to MUC. Sure Curry was 9-1 but RT feels pretty confident that IC didn't expect this kind of game. RT has been there as a player. It's not like you intentionally look past someone but it's hard not to think about something bigger down the road (like Cortica II)...especially when the NEFC has the perception they've had. RT agrees Cortland has a wake-up call and needs to take this VERY seriously

RT I think Curry is much better than I had thought and feel that from this I need to not judge teams without more thorough insight, research and actually having seen them played during the season of question. Do you think the IC players just bought into the "weak" NEFC talk?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:56:59 PM
I am very surprised more people haven't taken issue with Welch's decision to punt the ball TWICE from Curry's 30 yd line in the 4th qtr. The weather was an issue, but could you picture any D1 team, even the ones with weaker kickers, punting the ball twice in that situation.

I think those were chicken s#it decisions. You PLAY to WIN the GAMES!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 22, 2008, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:56:59 PM
I am very surprised more people haven't taken issue with Welch's decision to punt the ball TWICE from Curry's 30 yd line in the 4th qtr. The weather was an issue, but could you picture any D1 team, even the ones with weaker kickers, punting the ball twice in that situation.

I think it those were chicken s#it decisions. You PLAY to WIN the GAMES!!!

Yeah so far its only been two of us...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 22, 2008, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:56:59 PM
I am very surprised more people haven't taken issue with Welch's decision to punt the ball TWICE from Curry's 30 yd line in the 4th qtr. The weather was an issue, but could you picture any D1 team, even the ones with weaker kickers, punting the ball twice in that situation.

I think it those were chicken s#it decisions. You PLAY to WIN the GAMES!!!

Yeah so far its only been two of us...



Yea I wasn't there I can't comment. 

Seems to me if IC can pin Curry inside the 10 and force them 3 and out and get the ball at the 40 yard line again it might be a good decision.

If they go for it (25%?, 50%? of making it) and lose it, Curry now gets the ball at the 30/40 and IC is not in FG range after one first down.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2008, 09:06:11 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 22, 2008, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 08:56:59 PM
I am very surprised more people haven't taken issue with Welch's decision to punt the ball TWICE from Curry's 30 yd line in the 4th qtr. The weather was an issue, but could you picture any D1 team, even the ones with weaker kickers, punting the ball twice in that situation.

I think it those were chicken s#it decisions. You PLAY to WIN the GAMES!!!

Yeah so far its only been two of us...



Bret Page and I were discussing it during our HSU/UMHB broadcast earlier today when I read about it on here -- we both were saying how it makes no sense (with or without snow) since punters can't really control the ball to THAT degree.  Either they'd have to kick it low (and risk a block or just a terrible punt), angle themselves (which takes time and risks a block even more) or try to kick it really high (which really isn't something natural for a kicker to try... my thought is that they'd miss the ball if they tried a different windup than normal to add power).  There was no logical reason to think the punter would benefit.  At least take a couple delay of game penalties if you're going to try it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.

That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.

That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 10:06:02 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
Do you think the IC players just bought into the "weak" NEFC talk?

yes...and so did we

RT is starting to think maybe we ought not to penalize Dem Spicy Boyz because there's some weak teams in the NEFC. Does that mean they can't be good? It's not like the LL was blowing it up this year....look at other leagues or other sports. Sure MUC is a beast...but can't someone else in the OAC make any noise??

DSB = Arizona Cardinals in the NFC West

Maybe they get the cream of New England's crop of D3 talent?.....whereas U.NY has 4,5 or 6 teams jockeying for the same pool of guys? Who knows....RT thinks now though that Curry belongs in the same league as the top tier of E8 or LL teams. If you compare the LL and the NEFC, you'll see that the LL has some weak teams (SLU, KP)...AND a supposed top LL team (RPI) lost to a weak LL team (KP)...Curry seems to be taking care of their conf business week in and week out each year. Got to give them credit....RPI has made it out of Rd.1 only once in their NCAA visits whereas DSB is in Rd.2 now 2 years straight. That "weak" conference doesn't seem to hurt them the last couple of years from what RT can see.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 10:06:02 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
Do you think the IC players just bought into the "weak" NEFC talk?

yes...and so did we

RT is starting to think maybe we ought not to penalize Dem Spicy Boyz because there's some weak teams in the NEFC. Does that mean they can't be good? It's not like the LL was blowing it up this year....look at other leagues or other sports. Sure MUC is a beast...but can't someone else in the OAC make any noise??

DSB = Arizona Cardinals in the NFC West

Maybe they get the cream of New England's crop of D3 talent?.....whereas U.NY has 4,5 or 6 teams jockeying for the same pool of guys? Who knows....RT thinks now though that Curry belongs in the same league as the top tier of E8 or LL teams. If you compare the LL and the NEFC, you'll see that the LL has some weak teams (SLU, KP)...AND a supposed top LL team (RPI) lost to a weak LL team (KP)...Curry seems to be taking care of their conf business week in and week out each year. Got to give them credit....RPI has made it out of Rd.1 only once in their NCAA visits whereas DSB is in Rd.2 now 2 years straight. That "weak" conference doesn't seem to hurt them the last couple of years from what RT can see.....

+K tomorow RT
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 22, 2008, 10:22:34 PM
I can't help but think that the IC discussion sounds an awful lot like Cortland's last week.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM
Fella's first off.. If Ithaca's players could not see that Curry beat the E8 Champ last year in Hartwick they made a serious mistake.  I do not see how that could happen.

Curry College is just as physical as any E8 team week in and week out.
That is now fact as they have handed the E8 losses the last two years.

My close friend said that Curry was faster than IC in many key positions.
He was at the game.

In the 18 team NEFC there are a few bottom feeders but I can assure you that the  top 8 teams can play.

Just refer to the Bridgwater v Rowan boxscore people.

The entire east is near parallel in my eyes.  If the  NEFC's administrations got their stuff in order they would be no different than the NJAC or E8.
Actually the NEFC should now break up and stay two totally different leagues for the playoff spots. 

Curry has its self together.
Started with Steve Nelson (are any of the E8, LL or NJAC teams coached by a legendary NFL player, not)...Skip Bandini has carried the torch very well.
They are well coached in all areas.  I mean Mosi Tatupu has had their special teams cranked up for years.

They do very well recruiting in Boston, which arguablly has a better DIII talent base than IC and the rest of the E8 can take a 15 minute drive to.

We are not talking about DIII football programs from Texas and NY but Mass and NY.  There really is not that much difference in pure talent between the types of players from either states. 

*235 total yards is Ithaca's lowest offensive output of the season.
*235 total yards was Rowans second lowest offensive output of the season behind the 225 it had in its loss to Kean.
*288 total yards is Cortlands lowest offensive output of the season v Plymouth today as well.

Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HHawks on November 22, 2008, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM
Fella's first off.. If Ithaca's players could not see that Curry beat the E8 Champ last year in Hartwick they made a serious mistake.  I do not see how that could happen.

Curry College is just as physical as any E8 team week in and week out.
That is now fact as they have handed the E8 losses the last two years.

My close friend said that Curry was faster than IC in many key positions.
He was at the game.

In the 18 team NEFC there are a few bottom feeders but I can assure you that the  top 8 teams can play.

Just refer to the Bridgwater v Rowan boxscore people.

The entire east is near parrell in my eyes.  If the  NEFC's administrations got their stuff in order they would be no different than the NJAC or E8.
Actually the NEFC should now break up and stay two totally different leagues for the playoff spots. 

Curry has its self together.
Started with Steve Nelson (are any of the E8, LL or NJAC teams coached by a legendary NFL player, not)...Skip Bandini has carried the torch very well.
They are well coached in all areas.  I mean Mosi Tatupu has had their special teams cranked up for years.

They do very well recruiting in Boston, which arguablly has a better DIII talent base than IC.

Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
That goes for you as well Pat Coleman.
This reminds me of last year so much. Curry definitely had the fastest secondary Hartwick faced all year, and forced boltus to make perfect throws which was hard when he was getting hit every play. Congrats to Curry, they can play. Cortland better be really careful.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 08:50:46 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 10:06:02 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
Do you think the IC players just bought into the "weak" NEFC talk?

yes...and so did we

RT is starting to think maybe we ought not to penalize Dem Spicy Boyz because there's some weak teams in the NEFC. Does that mean they can't be good? It's not like the LL was blowing it up this year....look at other leagues or other sports. Sure MUC is a beast...but can't someone else in the OAC make any noise??

DSB = Arizona Cardinals in the NFC West

Maybe they get the cream of New England's crop of D3 talent?.....whereas U.NY has 4,5 or 6 teams jockeying for the same pool of guys? Who knows....RT thinks now though that Curry belongs in the same league as the top tier of E8 or LL teams. If you compare the LL and the NEFC, you'll see that the LL has some weak teams (SLU, KP)...AND a supposed top LL team (RPI) lost to a weak LL team (KP)...Curry seems to be taking care of their conf business week in and week out each year. Got to give them credit....RPI has made it out of Rd.1 only once in their NCAA visits whereas DSB is in Rd.2 now 2 years straight. That "weak" conference doesn't seem to hurt them the last couple of years from what RT can see.....

Very well said RT. Thanks for the response :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 23, 2008, 09:21:14 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 10:06:02 PM

RT is starting to think maybe we ought not to penalize Dem Spicy Boyz because there's some weak teams in the NEFC. Does that mean they can't be good? It's not like the LL was blowing it up this year....look at other leagues or other sports. Sure MUC is a beast...but can't someone else in the OAC make any noise??


+K RT.  I completely agree, and I think Curry-Cortland is going to be a great game.  Curry has a big recruiting base, and success speaks.  Keep making the NCAA playoffs, and actually win games when you get there, and you'll get more and more athletes interested to play for you.  Their best days are certainly ahead for them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 23, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM

*288 total yards is Cortlands lowest offensive output of the season v Plymouth today as well.

Let's be reasonable.  The field was snow and ice, and neither team could exhibit speed.  It was a mess.  The score was 31-6 midway through the 4th quarter.  It just wasn't that close.  I give Curry respect, but Plymouth was no more talented than a mid tier NJAC team. 

Keep in mind Plymouth convincingly lost to Mount Ida, and Mount Ida got crushed by NJAC last place Morrisville.  The NEFC is getting better, but it's mainly Curry leading the way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:53:12 AM
Dan.. thanks for the point.  I did not realize the field was unplayable.
But thanks to field turf there was no mud. 
I have always thought in muddy games the big team that goes straight just has a hug advantage. At least that was taken out of the equation.

At the very least the East has their eyes opened on the NEFC..
is that agreed upon?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2008, 10:12:59 AM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:53:12 AM
Dan.. thanks for the point.  I did not realize the field was unplayable.
But thanks to field turf there was no mud. 
I have always thought in muddy games the big team that goes straight just has a hug advantage. At least that was taken out of the equation.

At the very least the East has their eyes opened on the NEFC..
is that agreed upon?

We have our eyes opened to Curry, yes.  Curry has proven in consecutive years that they belong....the entire NEFC......not so sure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 10:16:22 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 23, 2008, 10:12:59 AM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:53:12 AM
Dan.. thanks for the point.  I did not realize the field was unplayable.
But thanks to field turf there was no mud. 
I have always thought in muddy games the big team that goes straight just has a hug advantage. At least that was taken out of the equation.

At the very least the East has their eyes opened on the NEFC..
is that agreed upon?

We have our eyes opened to Curry, yes.  Curry has proven in consecutive years that the belong....the entire NEFC......not so sure.

And Curry is different than the rest of the NEFC.  Bandini and those guys recruit the hell out of eastern MA.  More than 10000% of every other NEFC school.  They run coaching clinics, camps, send coaches to schools, make phone calls etc.  They have a legitimate program that has support and coaches who know how to go that extra mile.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 23, 2008, 10:16:36 AM
Absolutely Mel, all eyes are open.  This is 2 years in a row for Curry over an E8 team, and I view the E8 and MAC as the two best eastern conferences.

Yes, the field turf was treacherous.  Take a look at the punting stats from yesterday.  Every other punt by each team was a disaster, because the punters could not get their balance.  In the second half the sun came out and helped out the field a bit, and you started to see players get their traction.

I understand the grass field at Butterfield was even worse.  If the game is archived, it will be fun taking a look at.  

I view Curry as the team to worry most about in the NEFC.  As you point out, they have a big recruiting base in Boston.  No different than Rowan, Del Valley and Widener have outside of Philly.  If Bandini can convince more kids to come over to his program, they will dominate the NEFC and be in the playoffs almost every year, probably as a strong force.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 23, 2008, 10:26:50 AM
DSB has as many NCAA wins as those CEC..

Just throwing that out there...

I like DSB, they were feisty last year even down by 31 to SJF.  They're a decent team and if you let them get off to a good start you are in for a fight...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 10:46:06 AM
Upstate and Union I am with you on Curry being the NEFC's best.

I will tell you that the rest of the league is franticly trying to keep past.

Realize these are mostly state run schools and are sort of sleeping giants.
The coaching is way up.

Fitchberg, Westfield and WState all have new fields in the last few years.

Bridgewater has an undergrad enrollment of 7,800.  Very well coached and every bit as physical as Curry.  I saw BWater live this year.

Fitchberg has an outstanding offensive coach with their head guy (Worked with Leach from TT at some point)
When they are in 4 wides they are very hard to stop... just alot of athletes on the field and the running back (S.Conn transfer) is top tier at the same level of the Galliard kid (AIC late 90's)
The QB Miller is tall (6'6) and on the money.


Frammingham had its first non loosing season since 1986... the spread has done wonders for them.  Not to mention they are doing a bit of coaching as well.

Take a look at the Curry v Fitchberg boxscore from early on. 

All good talk.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 22, 2008, 10:06:02 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
Do you think the IC players just bought into the "weak" NEFC talk?

yes...and so did we

RT is starting to think maybe we ought not to penalize Dem Spicy Boyz because there's some weak teams in the NEFC. Does that mean they can't be good? It's not like the LL was blowing it up this year....look at other leagues or other sports. Sure MUC is a beast...but can't someone else in the OAC make any noise??

DSB = Arizona Cardinals in the NFC West

Maybe they get the cream of New England's crop of D3 talent?.....whereas U.NY has 4,5 or 6 teams jockeying for the same pool of guys? Who knows....RT thinks now though that Curry belongs in the same league as the top tier of E8 or LL teams. If you compare the LL and the NEFC, you'll see that the LL has some weak teams (SLU, KP)...AND a supposed top LL team (RPI) lost to a weak LL team (KP)...Curry seems to be taking care of their conf business week in and week out each year. Got to give them credit....RPI has made it out of Rd.1 only once in their NCAA visits whereas DSB is in Rd.2 now 2 years straight. That "weak" conference doesn't seem to hurt them the last couple of years from what RT can see.....

Valid point. I know in a conversation I had with Unions Coach Audino after they lost to Rowan in 05' he said he felt like Rowan had so much playoff experience, coaches and players, that in a tight game they never blinked and he said he felt like Unions coaches/players blinked in that game and when they did, they paid for it because Rowan would capitalize. My point is that the playoffs are not too big a stage for Curry because they are there every single year. They have played great teams, probably better teams than the 1 they played yesterday, so the coaches and players wont be intimidate because they have been there and done that. I guess my point is that postseason experience means something, though it cant be measured, and Curry has a ton of it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 10:46:06 AM
Upstate and Union I am with you on Curry being the NEFC's best.

I will tell you that the rest of the league is franticly trying to keep past.

Realize these are mostly state run schools and are sort of sleeping giants.
The coaching is way up.

Fitchberg, Westfield and WState all have new fields in the last few years.

Bridgewater has an undergrad enrollment of 7,800.  Very well coached and every bit as physical as Curry.  I saw BWater live this year.

Fitchberg has an outstanding offensive coach with their head guy (Worked with Leach from TT at some point)
When they are in 4 wides they are very hard to stop... just alot of athletes on the field and the running back (S.Conn transfer) is top tier at the same level of the Galliard kid (AIC late 90's)
The QB Miller is tall (6'6) and on the money.


Frammingham had its first non loosing season since 1986... the spread has done wonders for them.  Not to mention they are doing a bit of coaching as well.

Take a look at the Curry v Fitchberg boxscore from early on. 

All good talk.


I didn't get a chance to see Marlon Thornton play this year.  I heard he was a stud.  He is listed as a senior but does he have another year of eligibility?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 10:55:52 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 23, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM

*288 total yards is Cortlands lowest offensive output of the season v Plymouth today as well.

Let's be reasonable.  The field was snow and ice, and neither team could exhibit speed.  It was a mess.  The score was 31-6 midway through the 4th quarter.  It just wasn't that close.  I give Curry respect, but Plymouth was no more talented than a mid tier NJAC team. 

Keep in mind Plymouth convincingly lost to Mount Ida, and Mount Ida got crushed by NJAC last place Morrisville.  The NEFC is getting better, but it's mainly Curry leading the way.

Plymouth had to play in the snow and ice too. The issue wasnt talent in the game. The issue was that what Plymouth does, plays right into the hands of what Cortland does best. As was noted here several times during the week: you cannot line up against Cortland, do nothing but run the ball, and beat them. Maybe Mount Union can, but there arent many teams that can do that against Cortland. You have to drop back and pass the ball. Thats not Plymouth's game. It appears to be Currys. I mean everyone is hyping up Curry hear now, lets keep in mind that Plymouth got the AQ over Curry.....ran the ball all over them and completely shut down their run game.
And as I just posted, Plymouth had no playoff experience on their roster. Heck when the seniors were frosh/sophs they STUNK! Id beware of that program, its seen heights before, and is in a situation now where they can form a great 1-2 punch with Curry in that League and in the playoffs.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.

That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.

That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.

First off, Im not wrong.  Id only be wrong if we went into a time machine 100 times and went back to see what would have happened if Ithaca converted on those 4th downs.  Or if you want to tell me that you knew Welch was treating it as a two down situation instead of a one down one.

Im just saying they had one of their closest games of the year and one of their worst offensive games.  What worked in the other 10 games during the regular season was not working against Curry.  So those 3rd down conversion numbers dont really mean anything when you werent moving the ball against them in the first place.

Off course we can say he wrong now because the punt didnt go inside the 10.  Monday morning etc....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.


That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.

First off, Im not wrong.  Id only be wrong if we went into a time machine 100 times and went back to see what would have happened if Ithaca converted on those 4th downs.  Or if you want to tell me that you knew Welch was treating it as a two down situation instead of a one down one.

Im just saying they had one of their closest games of the year and one of their worst offensive games.  What worked in the other 10 games during the regular season was not working against Curry.  So those 3rd down conversion numbers dont really mean anything when you werent moving the ball against them in the first place.

Off course we can say he wrong now because the punt didnt go inside the 10.  Monday morning etc....
What you don't know could fill a book, so let's just leave it at that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2008, 11:26:40 AM
Wow this has been the year of the battling posters in PP.........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.


That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.

First off, Im not wrong.  Id only be wrong if we went into a time machine 100 times and went back to see what would have happened if Ithaca converted on those 4th downs.  Or if you want to tell me that you knew Welch was treating it as a two down situation instead of a one down one.

Im just saying they had one of their closest games of the year and one of their worst offensive games.  What worked in the other 10 games during the regular season was not working against Curry.  So those 3rd down conversion numbers dont really mean anything when you werent moving the ball against them in the first place.

Off course we can say he wrong now because the punt didnt go inside the 10.  Monday morning etc....
What you don't know could fill a book, so let's just leave it at that.

Very productive response.  Those two punts didnt lose the game for Ithaca.  And if you dont know that, whatever.

I mean, tell me the dam play they would have ran to get the first down on 4th there?  Tell me that you know Coach Welch wasn't treating it as a two down situation.  Are you a coach? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:28:41 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.


That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.

First off, Im not wrong.  Id only be wrong if we went into a time machine 100 times and went back to see what would have happened if Ithaca converted on those 4th downs.  Or if you want to tell me that you knew Welch was treating it as a two down situation instead of a one down one.

Im just saying they had one of their closest games of the year and one of their worst offensive games.  What worked in the other 10 games during the regular season was not working against Curry.  So those 3rd down conversion numbers dont really mean anything when you werent moving the ball against them in the first place.

Off course we can say he wrong now because the punt didnt go inside the 10.  Monday morning etc....
What you don't know could fill a book, so let's just leave it at that.
However in fairness to your point and to Welch's decision... Ithaca was ranked 223 in the country in 4th down coversions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.


That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.

First off, Im not wrong.  Id only be wrong if we went into a time machine 100 times and went back to see what would have happened if Ithaca converted on those 4th downs.  Or if you want to tell me that you knew Welch was treating it as a two down situation instead of a one down one.

Im just saying they had one of their closest games of the year and one of their worst offensive games.  What worked in the other 10 games during the regular season was not working against Curry.  So those 3rd down conversion numbers dont really mean anything when you werent moving the ball against them in the first place.

Off course we can say he wrong now because the punt didnt go inside the 10.  Monday morning etc....
What you don't know could fill a book, so let's just leave it at that.

Very productive response.  Those two punts didnt lose the game for Ithaca.  And if you dont know that, whatever.

I mean, tell me the dam play they would have ran to get the first down on 4th there?  Tell me that you know Coach Welch wasn't treating it as a two down situation.  Are you a coach? 
Nope, not a coach. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: E8 on November 22, 2008, 09:43:20 PM
Quote from: gobombers15 on November 22, 2008, 09:17:14 PM
If you decide on 3rd down that you're going to go for it, that really opens the playbook. You can run, make a high percentage short pass, throw a screen, etc. I just think this situation is a fitting microcosm of what Ithaca has become under Mike Welch in tight games.

We don't have Jeff Feagles, our punter isn't pinning them inside their 5 yd line, Mike.


That was poor coaching by Welch.  I thought I saw it all last year when, in a close PLAYOFF game, Hobart decides to fake a punt at the their OWN 10 yard line.   That's right, their OWN 10 yard line.    I think Welch's decisions take the cake today, however.   Show a little confidence in your offense and confidence in your ability to be prepared for situational football.   Coaches need to be prepared with high percentage plays in those situations.  If you're going to make a slick play sheet laminated with bold font and colors, make it something of VALUE and not something of show just because it looks good when you see coaches with it on television.   Those play sheets should be highlighted with plays that you can go to when you have KEY 3rd down situations based upon down and distance.   Situational football makes and breaks coaches.   Kicking the ball twice at the 30 yard line when the game hung in the balance showed me that they coaches were not prepared.

E8,

if Ithaca had a "highlighted" play that would work on any specific 3rd or 4th down, they probably would have won this game 40-17 with the other "highlighted" plays that would have worked in other situations right?

Wrong.   They were not prepared to attack those situations where they chose to punt.     Coming into yesterday's game, Ithaca was #13 in the country in 3rd down conversion success.   In actual #'s, Ithaca converted more 3rd down attempts than MUC this year.    That to me shows that Coach Welch was played by the situation instead of playing the situation himself.   Coaches make mistakes, and Coach Welch made them.  He's human.

First off, Im not wrong.  Id only be wrong if we went into a time machine 100 times and went back to see what would have happened if Ithaca converted on those 4th downs.  Or if you want to tell me that you knew Welch was treating it as a two down situation instead of a one down one.

Im just saying they had one of their closest games of the year and one of their worst offensive games.  What worked in the other 10 games during the regular season was not working against Curry.  So those 3rd down conversion numbers dont really mean anything when you werent moving the ball against them in the first place.

Off course we can say he wrong now because the punt didnt go inside the 10.  Monday morning etc....
What you don't know could fill a book, so let's just leave it at that.

Very productive response.  Those two punts didnt lose the game for Ithaca.  And if you dont know that, whatever.

I mean, tell me the dam play they would have ran to get the first down on 4th there?  Tell me that you know Coach Welch wasn't treating it as a two down situation.  Are you a coach? 
Nope, not a coach. 

Arent you an SJF alum?  I mean, how would you know anything about the inner workings of IC's playcalling and what they had or didnt' have?  4th down numbers also don't mean too much when you are tying for one or two random plays at different distances at different parts of the field.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 11:37:22 AM
I feel like coming in here and defending Utah. Taking some shots E8 and not needed. Maybe you can join my new plan and just try to play nice even when you disagree with other posters. Be coo 8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: E8 on November 23, 2008, 11:40:00 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 11:37:22 AM
I feel like coming in here and defending Utah. Taking some shots E8 and not needed. Maybe you can join my new plan and just try to play nice even when you disagree with other posters. Be coo 8)
Fair, fair.  Just trying to make a point, but sometimes you can't tell how the point is trying to be delivered through posts... thanks for the vine. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM
Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
That goes for you as well Pat Coleman.

Now Curry should go out and actually SCHEDULE someone in the regular season. Don't leave us guessing in November as to whether you're actually good or not.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM
Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
That goes for you as well Pat Coleman.

Now Curry should go out and actually SCHEDULE someone in the regular season. Don't leave us guessing in November as to whether you're actually good or not.

And what happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0 or something similar to that?  Leaves even more questions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.





Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 23, 2008, 03:16:09 PM
Two wins in the NCAA and now all of a sudden curry is worldbeaters...

Mel, seriously they're a good team but your making it sound like it should be painfully obvious to everyone on how good they are...

W/O any quality out of conference opponents its impossible to guage how good a team really is...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.







Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 03:39:05 PM
Upstate,

I don't think Mel is saying Curry is a world beater.  I think he is simply saying they have been tested, and in the opinion of a number of E8 posters by a team that was going to kick them all over the field (a double monkey stomp if I remember correctly).

The point is Curry has proved they belong.  They took a step last year against Wick.  They took a larger step this year against IC.  PC needs to re-evaluate the NEFC competition.  I assume the NCAA did.

BTW, I have read your posts this week and they were classy, especially after the Curry win.  It was not only you.  There were others from the E8 that had some really nice things to say.  That is appreciated.  I am not taking you to task.  But I think  people like myself that watch the NEFC are tired of being an after thought.

Finally, at some level I think it would be great if Curry scheduled some competition from outside the NEFC.  I think it would help Curry and the league.  I don't know that they can afford the expense - that's not for me to answer.  But, I also think that they do not have to schedule outside competition to prove anything to anyone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 03:58:14 PM
Jonny,

Let me take a shot at your question, "What is Cortland beats Curry 48-0?"

Curry will go home to Milton MA, say goodbye to the best QB in their history, and recruit for next year.  Then the following morning the sun will rise in the east and set in the west and most everyone will conclude that Curry was a fluke.

That's the same scenario as last year, isn't it?

Let me ask you a question.  What if Curry wins (no 48-0 scenario, just wins)?  Do you think anyone will begin to think the NEFC may have some merits?  I wonder.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 04:02:57 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 03:58:14 PM
Jonny,

Let me take a shot at your question, "What is Cortland beats Curry 48-0?"

Curry will go home to Milton MA, say goodbye to the best QB in their history, and recruit for next year.  Then the following morning the sun will rise in the east and set in the west and most everyone will conclude that Curry was a fluke.

That's the same scenario as last year, isn't it?

Let me ask you a question.  What if Curry wins (no 48-0 scenario, just wins)?  Do you think anyone will begin to think the NEFC may have some merits?  I wonder.


Exactly.  If Curry beats Cortland, they will have the respect of everyone here (or should have it).  The top teams in the nefc will deserve credit.

If Curry loses 48-0, then yea, people might have that right to call them a fluke don't you think?  They also have the right to give some shots at Ithaca for losing to them.  it might not be right, but sometimes you really have to prove things on the field year in and year out.

And let me be clear about what I think.  I know Curry is good.  Ive seen them play. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.







Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

JU....dont forget 1993 where RPI beat an undefeated Plymouth St team in the ECACs, 1992 where RPI beat and undefeated Bridgewater St team in the ECACs or 1995 where RPI absolutely throttled an undefeated Worcester St team 60 something to very little.....all 3 of those NEFC teams from RT's era thought they got screwed out of NCAA berths.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.







Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

JU....dont forget 1993 where RPI beat an undefeated Plymouth St team in the ECACs, 1992 where RPI beat and undefeated Bridgewater St team in the ECACs or 1995 where RPI absolutely throttled an undefeated Worcester St team 60 something to very little.....all 3 of those NEFC teams from RT's era thought they got screwed out of NCAA berths.

RT Im not trying to forget, there are too many to remember!

But my point was the Mel is trying to bring up a 1987 ECAC game to show the NE teams are overlooked?  Too much evidence the other way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 04:14:06 PM
Jonny,

Exactly.

I wouldn't be party to the IC call out only because I think that things happen on the field that may not be typically.  I don't think Currry's win was undeserved, far from it, I think they fought hard.  But from my (distance memories) of my playing days I know the footaball doesn't always bounce the way you think it will.

Maybe if Curry played IC next week the outcome would be different, maybe not. That's what makes football so amazing we will never really know until the game is played out.

I don't think Curry will tank next week.  They may be beaten.  But that's a group of kids that are mentally tough.  Many of them have had nothing but success.  Their senior class has won nothing but league championships until this year.  They took a tough loss to PSU (PSU played great btw).  Yet they came back played out the string on their schedule and got a second chance from the NCAA.  They have made the best of it thus far.

There will not be a let-up and Cortland is in for a game.  I hope its competitve and exciting for all us fans.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 04:15:43 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.







Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...

JU....dont forget 1993 where RPI beat an undefeated Plymouth St team in the ECACs, 1992 where RPI beat and undefeated Bridgewater St team in the ECACs or 1995 where RPI absolutely throttled an undefeated Worcester St team 60 something to very little.....all 3 of those NEFC teams from RT's era thought they got screwed out of NCAA berths.

RT Im not trying to forget, there are too many to remember!

But my point was the Mel is trying to bring up a 1987 ECAC game to show the NE teams are overlooked?  Too much evidence the other way.

RT is with you. No one is taking anythiing away from Curry's good performances in the last couple of years in the NCAAs...however, they still have a LONG way to go to earn a track record. Heck, RPI has a LONG way to go as well for the same right.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
I wish we could all sit down and have a cup of coffee over this stuff.
I never said world beaters.... but they belong.

Once upon a time RPI was an after thought.... than they do some good things and they belong.

Hobart was not even a thought years ago..... now they belong.

Perception is what you want.  Including the old guard of the east.

The entire NJAC gets to ride the coat tails of the Rowan great teams and they all belong.  
I mean Montclair with an undergrad enrollment of 13,500 gets upended.
I thought they belong.

Cortland may smash Curry... Curry needed to get a hotel in central NY as going there twice in a week will take its toll.
Cortland might not smash Curry.... who really knows.


I do not conveniently leave out the times of the NEFC or FFC's failures but point out that this stuff happens all the time.

The 6-3 Ithaca team that beat Worcester State in 96 ECAC was lucky to win.  IC did not score on offense that day... blocked punt for a score and a pick 6 on defense.   W State was alot better and stronger than anticipated.
That IC team was loaded by the way.. loosing to AIC, Spr (D2 types) and a Buff State team that was top shelf.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:20:01 PM
I wish we could all sit down and have a cup of coffee over this stuff.
I never said world beaters.... but they belong.

Once upon a time RPI was an after thought.... than they do some good things and they belong.

Hobart was not even a thought years ago..... now they belong.

Perception is what you want.  Including the old guard of the east.

The entire NJAC gets to ride the coat tails of the Rowan great teams and they all belong.  
I mean Montclair with an undergrad enrollment of 13,500 gets upended.
I thought they belong.

Cortland may smash Curry... Curry needed to get a hotel in central NY as going there twice in a week will take its toll.
Cortland might not smash Curry.... who really knows.


I do not conveniently leave out the times of the NEFC or FFC's failures but point out that this stuff happens all the time.

The 6-3 Ithaca team that beat Worcester State in 96 ECAC was lucky to win.  IC did not score on offense that day... blocked punt for a score and a pick 6 on defense.   W State was alot better and stronger than anticipated.
That IC team was loaded by the way.. loosing to AIC, Spr (D2 types) and a Buff State team that was top shelf.  


Mel you have a lot of good points but some of them are really bugging me.

-Hobart has had a great football program for the last 25 years.  Not a powerhouse every year, but they have been a solid program.

-The NJAC has not been getting the "rowan coatail" benefits for sometime now.  Just ask Montclair the last two years.  And I also said the NJAC was overated this year and didnt deserve a bid

-IC lucky in 1996?  Ithaca was also without several offensive starters including a QB who was one of the best in the history of the program.  Worcester had one of the worst offenses and special teams I had ever seen at the d3 level.  IC was as lucky as Curry was yesterday.  I dont even want to get into the whole ECAC mindset thing again but for all intents and purposes Ithaca was a better team than Worcester St.  I also think we would have beaten them 10/10 times if we played 10 times.

-IC beat Springfield in 1996 but lost to AIC, Cortland and Buff St.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
Wow..hold on....
The Mass state kids have not picked the NEFC schools football programs over the IC program.  They picked the price tag people.  IC's financial aid dried up in the early 90's.  So the Mass kid who needs aid stays home.  Over the course of time the Football programs get better.. much better.

IC has moved it's recruiting base as far as out of state to the wealthy suburbs north of Philly... look at the roster.  

For this same reason Hobart has emerged in IC's back yard... they give great packages and poach talent.  It spreads out and more and more teams are brought back to the middle.  

Since when was St. John Fisher so good.... well now your preception is they are because of a few good years and a nice game v MUC one time.

There was once a time that my perception was the NESCAC was for softies.
Well I have seen Trinity play and the East would prefer the NESCAC stay out of the playoffs.

There is just no true eastern power any more...

Oh, and now Curry needs to beat Cortland to earn your respect.  That is just not fair.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 04:38:55 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
Wow..hold on....
The Mass state kids have not picked the NEFC schools football programs over the IC program.  They picked the price tag people.  IC's financial aid dried up in the early 90's.  So the Mass kid who needs aid stays home.  Over the course of time the Football programs get better.. much better.

IC has moved it's recruiting base as far as out of state to the wealthy suburbs north of Philly... look at the roster.  

For this same reason Hobart has emerged in IC's back yard... they give great packages and poach talent.  It spreads out and more and more teams are brought back to the middle.  

Since when was St. John Fisher so good.... well now your preception is they are because of a few good years and a nice game v MUC one time.

There was once a time that my perception was the NESCAC was for softies.
Well I have seen Trinity play and the East would prefer the NESCAC stay out of the playoffs.

There is just no true eastern power any more...

Oh, and now Curry needs to beat Cortland to earn your respect.  That is just not fair.  

Your all over the place.

Mel its called financial aid and Ithaca has more MA kids on the roster now than they did in 1991.  And financial aid has not dried up since the early 1990s.  Show me proof of that? Thats not an issue.  And Curry costs as much as IC does.  Even the MA state colleges are some of the most expensive in the country.  Go to any MA highschools guidence office and you will not see kids with Ithaca and Fitchburg St as similar schools.  It doesnt happen.

I never said Curry had to beat Cortland to get my respect, but they will to get others respect.  How do you think they should be looked at if they lose to Cortland 48-0?  Hell, you can fairly call IC overated today if you want dont you think?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:41:59 PM
Hobart has not had great football for 25 years.  No way..
The first time I thought they were really good was in 1998.  
For the past 10 years they are as good as anyone week in and week out in the East.  Mike Craig has done an outstanding job... just outstanding.

I am all over the place.. I know but I am having a great time typing D3 football with others who love it.
I wish you guys lived on my block.. I would make you hot cocco and trade baseball cards.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 04:51:32 PM
"Mel its called financial aid and Ithaca has more MA kids on the roster now than they did in 1991.  And financial aid has not dried up since the early 1990s.  Show me proof of that? Thats not an issue.  And Curry costs as much as IC does.  Even the MA state colleges are some of the most expensive in the country.  Go to any MA highschools guidence office and you will not see kids with Ithaca and Fitchburg St as similar schools.  It doesnt happen."

Mel,

Jonny, this is right on the money.  In fact it's a pretty well know phenomena that parents view a college's ability to provide quality education in direct proportion to the cost of tuition.  It's exactly opposite to normal market forces where the less expensive  a service is the more competitive it is.  So, in many respects the cost of tuition may not adversely affect a person's decision to select that college.  At least up until now... with the economy who knows anymore.

As for respect for the NEFC let's hope Curry thakes care of that this week.  I know that won't be there motivation, but it's a by-product I think every coach in the NEFC is aware of especially if they hope to continue to get attention for a pool c bid.



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 23, 2008, 05:03:01 PM
Anyone want to talk actual football?  Do I think that Curry will be tough?  Yes I do.  Am I worried about Curry throwing the ball?  a little bit.  But I have asked again and noone has answed, how will Curry stop our running game? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 23, 2008, 05:27:03 PM
Hobart's aid is sporadic at best.  It's kind of all over the place and they aren't, as a rule, the most generous school on the block.  In fact, since president Mark Gearan got there (in 1998), the money has gone where its really supposed to smart kids where Hobart is closer to a safety school.  Not athletes (some lax kids are the exception, particularly from a couple of feeder boarding schools such as Salisbury).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 23, 2008, 05:03:01 PM
Anyone want to talk actual football?  Do I think that Curry will be tough?  Yes I do.  Am I worried about Curry throwing the ball?  a little bit.  But I have asked again and noone has answed, how will Curry stop our running game? 

They play a 4-4 defensive and will make Cortland try to force them from that base defense with your passing attack.  Miles' 14/9 (TD/Int ratio) is not going to do it pre-game so Cortland will need to stay balanced.  

Better question is how do you plan to stop their run game?  They average about 240 yards per game - that's 19th nationally.  They are also ranked fifth in total offensive nationally.  Oh, wait I know the answer they play in a weak league.  How did one guy put it the "Little Sisters of the Poor" league.  What will you do other than worry for a week.............

Just playing with you my friend.  Let them play the game.  Let the coaches figure out how to game plan.  Let's analyze it after.

(stats are courtesy of College Sports Report)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Findtheball on November 23, 2008, 05:31:10 PM
          Curry will kill Cortland by 21 pts
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 05:38:46 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:41:59 PM
Hobart has not had great football for 25 years.  No way..
The first time I thought they were really good was in 1998.  
For the past 10 years they are as good as anyone week in and week out in the East.  Mike Craig has done an outstanding job... just outstanding.

I am all over the place.. I know but I am having a great time typing D3 football with others who love it.
I wish you guys lived on my block.. I would make you hot cocco and trade baseball cards.

Mel Hobart was great in 1993 and other years around then.  They have been solid for a long time and have a good history there.  And they gave me the best financial package when I applied there.  They have historically been one of the best in the country for aid, but I dont know about their recent history.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.

Curry is good with Van De Giesen at quarterback. We'll see what that gets you in 2009.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.

Curry is good with Van De Giesen at quarterback. We'll see what that gets you in 2009.

Pat....

Sound a bit bitter.  We'll see.  There are two others in the pipe line.  Matt Cassell like players... ring a bell?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 03:39:05 PM
PC needs to re-evaluate the NEFC competition.  I assume the NCAA did.

Big assumption considering they merely took teams with good records.

How do we evaluate your competition, exactly? Who do you play outside of your 16-team island that gives us any basis for evaluation? When your champion loses to Mount Ida, what are we supposed to be able to learn from that?

That's the thing we struggle with each and every week when trying to gauge NEFC schools. If you're playing only against each other, well, you do yourself no favors. No way to evaluate you until you are forced by the NCAA to actually play someone.

Sorry for the reality check, Btown. There's a long list of programs in Division III that were good when they had that one guy, whether a quarterback or a running back or a stud linebacker, and never got back together after that kid graduated. We'll find out in the next couple years whether Curry is the next Wesley or the next Brockport State.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 05:47:34 PM
PC.. I feel you route against Curry and the NEFC.  
You should be an innocent observer but it may be otherwise.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 05:55:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 03:39:05 PM
PC needs to re-evaluate the NEFC competition.  I assume the NCAA did.

Big assumption considering they merely took teams with good records.

How do we evaluate your competition, exactly? Who do you play outside of your 16-team island that gives us any basis for evaluation? When your champion loses to Mount Ida, what are we supposed to be able to learn from that?

That's the thing we struggle with each and every week when trying to gauge NEFC schools. If you're playing only against each other, well, you do yourself no favors. No way to evaluate you until you are forced by the NCAA to actually play someone.

Sorry for the reality check, Btown. There's a long list of programs in Division III that were good when they had that one guy, whether a quarterback or a running back or a stud linebacker, and never got back together after that kid graduated. We'll find out in the next couple years whether Curry is the next Wesley or the next Brockport State.

Pat,

No one asked you to re-evaluate Curry per se.  What was asked is that you re-evaluate the NEFC competition level.  If you rather not, then don't.  I don't have the bully pulpit like you do to pontificate from.  BTW, Van De Guisen doesn't span the entire 5 NEFC championships.  He was an unknown freshman also at one point.  He developed.  My point is you don't know Curry and you don't know about other back-up QB development.  So don't rush to judgement on "one stud" theory.

Furthermore, I would think the Administrator of the D3 football.com would have long ago realized that fottball cannot be played by one player.  Perhaps you got confused and thought you were on the basketball site.

You're right aboout one thing.  We'll see.  I just hope you actually take a look and not assume you know based upon your "history".

Sorry for being a jerk.... you started it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 23, 2008, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 05:38:46 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 04:41:59 PM
Hobart has not had great football for 25 years.  No way..
The first time I thought they were really good was in 1998.  
For the past 10 years they are as good as anyone week in and week out in the East.  Mike Craig has done an outstanding job... just outstanding.

I am all over the place.. I know but I am having a great time typing D3 football with others who love it.
I wish you guys lived on my block.. I would make you hot cocco and trade baseball cards.

Mel Hobart was great in 1993 and other years around then.  They have been solid for a long time and have a good history there.  And they gave me the best financial package when I applied there.  They have historically been one of the best in the country for aid, but I dont know about their recent history.

You beat me to it.  Hobart's 93 team defeated the #2 team in the country and was on track for a NCAA berth but got derailed by RT and his Engineers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Yes, clearly I got confused and forgot everything I learned in 14 years of watching Division III football closely. :)

Not sure, honestly, how you expect me to re-evaluate the NEFC but not Curry. Seems impossible to do. I stand by my opinion that Curry should go out and schedule someone a little tougher than Worcester State next season for its 10th game.

Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.

I understand it's hard to look at things objectively when you are so close to the program, but this is what reality is like from the outside.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2008, 06:04:22 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 05:47:34 PM
PC.. I feel you route against Curry and the NEFC.  
You should be an innocent observer but it may be otherwise.
Following the banter on the regional "Playoff Discussion" board...

"you root against"  I assume.

(Blasted "homonyms" that mess up the way something sounds when you are typing it in your head.    :D

Attention please!  At the request of the all-powerful Guru Pat Coleman,  Curry has been "re-routed" to Alliance Ohio where it will play Mount Union.    :D  )

The problem is the lack of intra-regional games.

As the conference get bigger, there are fewer games between conference members.  The NJAC went to 10 this season.  The Pres AC is up to 9, and they have a challenge series with the 9-member MAC. In the South, the SCAC is going to 9.  The ASC should be back at 10 in about two years.  The 10-member NCAC plays 7 conference foes, but has a challenge series with the UAA.  It is a problem across the entire division.

I am wondering what the E8 does to keep its AQ when Norwich leaves.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Yes, clearly I got confused and forgot everything I learned in 14 years of watching Division III football closely. :)

Not sure, honestly, how you expect me to re-evaluate the NEFC but not Curry. Seems impossible to do. I stand by my opinion that Curry should go out and schedule someone a little tougher than Worcester State next season for its 10th game.

Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.

I understand it's hard to look at things objectively when you are so close to the program, but this is what reality is like from the outside.

Pat,

I never meant that you personally should evaluate the NEFC.  If it sounded that way then I apologize.  I do not know the resources of your organization.  I had suspected that someone might take a longer look that's all.  I also just hoped that based upon what has happened in NCAA playoffs over the past couple of years you might, just maybe, acknowledge there is some decent football being palyed in the NEFC.

Look you're the big dog so you get the heat.  I thought this day after a win at IC, and a pool c bid selection by the NCAA ,that of all the people that might take a shot at Curry and the NEFC it would not come from the D3 football guys themselves.  

Where I do completely agree with you is that Curry and some other NEFC teams need to schedule some outside competition.  Let's hope we see that happen next year.

BTW, I never ment to call into question your 14 years of experience.  But you know and I know that one player doesn't make a team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 06:13:13 PM
If Curry REALLY wants þo up the ante, they should move to the E8 when Norwich leaves. Possible new conf names...

"E7 + 1"

"IC and the Hayta's"

"Dem Spicy E8'ers"

"We deserve Two Bids"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Where I do completely agree with you is that Curry and some other NEFC teams need to schedule some outside competition.  Let's hope we see that happen next year.

Considering this is the crux of my original post, perhaps you'll retract your assertion that I was taking a shot at Curry.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM
Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
That goes for you as well Pat Coleman.

Now Curry should go out and actually SCHEDULE someone in the regular season. Don't leave us guessing in November as to whether you're actually good or not.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 06:15:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
We'll find out in the next couple years whether Curry is the next Wesley or the next Brockport State.

Ouch!  Right to the heart!  :(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:16:52 PM
Sorry, dude -- didn't mean to hit you in the Darnley.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:17:22 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 06:13:13 PM
If Curry REALLY wants þo up the ante, they should move to the E8 when Norwich leaves. Possible new conf names...

"E7 + 1"

"IC and the Hayta's"

"Dem Spicy E8'ers"

"We deserve Two Bids"

[/quote

Love it.  I think Dem Spicy E8'ers works best.  Now all you need to do is drop a $100,000 into each of the E8 football program for travel expenses and the magic can happen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 06:19:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:16:52 PM
Sorry, dude -- didn't mean to hit you in the Darnley.

::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:23:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.

Curry is good with Van De Giesen at quarterback. We'll see what that gets you in 2009.

Pat,

With all due respect the above quote is your shot at Curry.  Can you show me where you have gone into another 7th seed's site (several won this week) and called them out similiarly?  If you did then I will feel differently about this.

It's not a shot at Curry that you wonder how to evaluate them because they play only in the NEFC.  That's something we can agree on.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:30:25 PM
None of the other No. 7's scheduled solely conference opponents, which meant we could properly evaluate them on their non-conference schedule.

If that's a shot, then you better hope nobody actually does take a shot at someone or something you like, because you'll be really upset. I'm just asking that Curry schedule like a playoff team considering it's been one for years now.

No. 7 seed Wheaton scheduled Bethel, a national semifinal team last year.
No. 7 seed Wartburg scheduled St. Norbert, which has won the Midwest Conference seven times in the past 10 years, and until yesterday, was the only MWC team to win a playoff game in the automatic bid era.
No. 7 seed Wesley scheduled Christopher Newport (ccd. because of tropical storm Hannah), 2007 MAC champ Widener, Delaware Valley and Iona.

Not sure why you want me to call them out. They all scheduled like playoff teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:32:06 PM
And by the way, it was because of that responsible scheduling that we knew Wesley and Wheaton could win those games yesterday. (Read the Triple Take from last week, where three of us unanimously picked them as "upsets.")

But if Curry wants respect, it's going to have to go schedule someone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:34:02 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:23:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.

Curry is good with Van De Giesen at quarterback. We'll see what that gets you in 2009.

Pat,

With all due respect the above quote is your shot at Curry.


Yes, indeed. When Curry fans took a shot at me, I did shoot back.

Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 05:55:04 PM
Sorry for being a jerk.... you started it.

This is actually not true. Perhaps you didn't read the post I responded to there?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Yes, clearly I got confused and forgot everything I learned in 14 years of watching Division III football closely. :)

Not sure, honestly, how you expect me to re-evaluate the NEFC but not Curry. Seems impossible to do. I stand by my opinion that Curry should go out and schedule someone a little tougher than Worcester State next season for its 10th game.

Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.

I understand it's hard to look at things objectively when you are so close to the program, but this is what reality is like from the outside.

Pat,

I never meant that you personally should evaluate the NEFC.  If it sounded that way then I apologize.  I do not know the resources of your organization.  I had suspected that someone might take a longer look that's all.  I also just hoped that based upon what has happened in NCAA playoffs over the past couple of years you might, just maybe, acknowledge there is some decent football being palyed in the NEFC.

Look you're the big dog so you get the heat.  I thought this day after a win at IC, and a pool c bid selection by the NCAA ,that of all the people that might take a shot at Curry and the NEFC it would not come from the D3 football guys themselves.  

Where I do completely agree with you is that Curry and some other NEFC teams need to schedule some outside competition.  Let's hope we see that happen next year.

BTW, I never ment to call into question your 14 years of experience.  But you know and I know that one player doesn't make a team.

Btown I don't think there is any question many of us overlooked Curry. The thing is though what you are not getting is who did we or any have to compare them to? I think Pat was being as objective as possible. I think you seem to have a passion and/or connection to the program so your mirror may be a bit foggy (very understandable though when it comes to U I can't even see through my mirror) ;D Even the win over Wick last year really was not all that impressive because of the amount of points Wick gave up throughout the season and the lack of consistency they had on the "D" side of the ball. Only now with the very impressive W at Ithaca are we seeing that Curry really is a good team. It is just hard to gauge though because of the lack of outside scheduling. I mean look Plmouth is obviously a talented team, they beat Curry but lost to Mt. IDA. WHat do we have in regards of consistent results to gauge the NEFC? It's just tough ya know? By the way no such thing as a one man team.......SEE HARTWICK....BOLTUS ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:30:25 PM
None of the other No. 7's scheduled solely conference opponents, which meant we could properly evaluate them on their non-conference schedule.

If that's a shot, then you better hope nobody actually does take a shot at someone or something you like, because you'll be really upset. I'm just asking that Curry schedule like a playoff team considering it's been one for years now.

No. 7 seed Wheaton scheduled Bethel, a national semifinal team last year.
No. 7 seed Wartburg scheduled St. Norbert, which has won the Midwest Conference seven times in the past 10 years, and until yesterday, was the only MWC team to win a playoff game in the automatic bid era.
No. 7 seed Wesley scheduled Christopher Newport (ccd. because of tropical storm Hannah), 2007 MAC champ Widener, Delaware Valley and Iona.

Not sure why you want me to call them out. They all scheduled like playoff teams.

Pat,

Let's not twist this into me calling out any other team.  I did no such thing either by comment or suggestion.  I respeect their accomplishments.  I asked you, and I'll ask again, did you go to any of their sites and wonder out loud about their future based upon the graduation of any one player?  Answer that.  If it rather not stay to the point then fine ignore me. 
Just to be clear. 

Look I don't know you from Adam.  I assume you're probably a decent guy.  Your involvement in football is enough testimony for me to jump to that conclusion.  But you took a shot at Curry today.  I don't know your motivation.  But it seems to me you of all people would cheer a supposed underdog victory as it builds a greater base of interest.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:02:28 PM
Each of the other No. 7 seed has won playoff games with quarterbacks other than their current ones.

I guess you didn't read the post I was responding to, then. Mel said Curry is good and will be good. I don't think there are facts in evidence to suggest the latter, only the former. And that's why I note that Curry's only playoff wins are with the current quarterback, who is a senior.

You make it out to be an unsolicited shot at Curry, when in fact, I was called out by name and a claim was made that has dubious support. I called that assertion into question.

Are you following now?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:03:42 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Yes, clearly I got confused and forgot everything I learned in 14 years of watching Division III football closely. :)

Not sure, honestly, how you expect me to re-evaluate the NEFC but not Curry. Seems impossible to do. I stand by my opinion that Curry should go out and schedule someone a little tougher than Worcester State next season for its 10th game.

Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.

I understand it's hard to look at things objectively when you are so close to the program, but this is what reality is like from the outside.

Pat,

I never meant that you personally should evaluate the NEFC.  If it sounded that way then I apologize.  I do not know the resources of your organization.  I had suspected that someone might take a longer look that's all.  I also just hoped that based upon what has happened in NCAA playoffs over the past couple of years you might, just maybe, acknowledge there is some decent football being palyed in the NEFC.

Look you're the big dog so you get the heat.  I thought this day after a win at IC, and a pool c bid selection by the NCAA ,that of all the people that might take a shot at Curry and the NEFC it would not come from the D3 football guys themselves.  

Where I do completely agree with you is that Curry and some other NEFC teams need to schedule some outside competition.  Let's hope we see that happen next year.

BTW, I never ment to call into question your 14 years of experience.  But you know and I know that one player doesn't make a team.

Btown I don't think there is any question many of us overlooked Curry. The thing is though what you are not getting is who did we or any have to compare them to? I think Pat was being as objective as possible. I think you seem to have a passion and/or connection to the program so your mirror may be a bit foggy (very understandable though when it comes to U I can't even see through my mirror) ;D Even the win over Wick last year really was not all that impressive because of the amount of points Wick gave up throughout the season and the lack of consistency they had on the "D" side of the ball. Only now with the very impressive W at Ithaca are we seeing that Curry really is a good team. It is just hard to gauge though because of the lack of outside scheduling. I mean look Plmouth is obviously a talented team, they beat Curry but lost to Mt. IDA. WHat do we have in regards of consistent results to gauge the NEFC? It's just tough ya know? By the way no such thing as a one man team.......SEE HARTWICK....BOLTUS ;D

I understand your point and agree if it's possible a number of NEFC teams should try to schedule teams out of their league.  I had only originally asked Pat to re-evaluate the NEFC competition level.  It wasn't about Curry.  Look, I know its difficult to eveluate the teams in the NEFC without a benchmark game or two.  Curry has had three in two years and stands at 2-1 (Wick, St. Jonhs Fisher, and IC).  My point is the players in that league deserve a fair shake.  Its difficult.  But if a person wnats to be the sheriif then wear the badge and don't get pi$$ed off cause someone asks for some consideration.

I also acknowledge your many positive posts after yesterday's win.  You were cool to do that.  I actually registered to thank you and others but got cuaght up in this stuff.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.


You are right, they do have to show that they can do it without him. But they did do it with him, so you cant fault Curry for actually having him on their team. Its the name on the front dont forget!

PS-Curry has more NCAA wins in the last 4 years than Ithaca and Union combined. Wow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 23, 2008, 07:06:07 PM
Last word.  I win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:03:42 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Yes, clearly I got confused and forgot everything I learned in 14 years of watching Division III football closely. :)

Not sure, honestly, how you expect me to re-evaluate the NEFC but not Curry. Seems impossible to do. I stand by my opinion that Curry should go out and schedule someone a little tougher than Worcester State next season for its 10th game.

Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.

I understand it's hard to look at things objectively when you are so close to the program, but this is what reality is like from the outside.

Pat,

I never meant that you personally should evaluate the NEFC.  If it sounded that way then I apologize.  I do not know the resources of your organization.  I had suspected that someone might take a longer look that's all.  I also just hoped that based upon what has happened in NCAA playoffs over the past couple of years you might, just maybe, acknowledge there is some decent football being palyed in the NEFC.

Look you're the big dog so you get the heat.  I thought this day after a win at IC, and a pool c bid selection by the NCAA ,that of all the people that might take a shot at Curry and the NEFC it would not come from the D3 football guys themselves.  

Where I do completely agree with you is that Curry and some other NEFC teams need to schedule some outside competition.  Let's hope we see that happen next year.

BTW, I never ment to call into question your 14 years of experience.  But you know and I know that one player doesn't make a team.

Btown I don't think there is any question many of us overlooked Curry. The thing is though what you are not getting is who did we or any have to compare them to? I think Pat was being as objective as possible. I think you seem to have a passion and/or connection to the program so your mirror may be a bit foggy (very understandable though when it comes to U I can't even see through my mirror) ;D Even the win over Wick last year really was not all that impressive because of the amount of points Wick gave up throughout the season and the lack of consistency they had on the "D" side of the ball. Only now with the very impressive W at Ithaca are we seeing that Curry really is a good team. It is just hard to gauge though because of the lack of outside scheduling. I mean look Plmouth is obviously a talented team, they beat Curry but lost to Mt. IDA. WHat do we have in regards of consistent results to gauge the NEFC? It's just tough ya know? By the way no such thing as a one man team.......SEE HARTWICK....BOLTUS ;D

I understand your point and agree if it's possible a number of NEFC teams should try to schedule teams out of their league.  I had only originally asked Pat to re-evaluate the NEFC competition level.  It wasn't about Curry.  Look, I know its difficult to eveluate the teams in the NEFC without a benchmark game or two.  Curry has had three in two years and stands at 2-1 (Wick, St. Jonhs Fisher, and IC).  My point is the players in that league deserve a fair shake.  Its difficult.  But if a person wnats to be the sheriif then wear the badge and don't get pi$$ed off cause someone asks for some consideration.

I also acknowledge your many positive posts after yesterday's win.  You were cool to do that.  I actually registered to thank you and others but got cuaght up in this stuff.

Good point Btown.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.


You are right, they do have to show that they can do it without him. But they did do it with him, so you cant fault Curry for actually having him on their team. Its the name on the front dont forget!

No, but again, the assertion was that Curry would continue at this level. That's what I'm saying is yet to be determined.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:02:28 PM
Each of the other No. 7 seed has won playoff games with quarterbacks other than their current ones.

I guess you didn't read the post I was responding to, then. Mel said Curry is good and will be good. I don't think there are facts in evidence to suggest the latter, only the former. And that's why I note that Curry's only playoff wins are with the current quarterback, who is a senior.

You make it out to be an unsolicited shot at Curry, when in fact, I was called out by name and a claim was made that has dubious support. I called that assertion into question.

Are you following now?

Pat,

Yeah I am with you now.  I hope you will understand that my request for a re-evaluation of the NEFC comes from frustration (not with you).  As I said in my earlier post you're the big dog so you get the heat.  For that you have my appreciation and if I offened you my apologies. 

We're hopefully cool now?  Peace.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:16:16 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.


You are right, they do have to show that they can do it without him. But they did do it with him, so you cant fault Curry for actually having him on their team. Its the name on the front dont forget!

No, but again, the assertion was that Curry would continue at this level. That's what I'm saying is yet to be determined.

I hear that.  Pat is it possible that I could be among the few that get banned on their first day?   ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:17:18 PM
Agreed, all cool.

Curry has an opportunity here to really make something of its program. But 10 games against the NEFC won't help. This is a great run to recruit off of.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:18:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.


You are right, they do have to show that they can do it without him. But they did do it with him, so you cant fault Curry for actually having him on their team. Its the name on the front dont forget!

No, but again, the assertion was that Curry would continue at this level. That's what I'm saying is yet to be determined.


Doesnt that have to be determined by everybody save Mount (whom Im pretty sure has proven they can sustain)?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:24:59 PM
I think several programs have shown they can sustain the level we're actually talking about -- the level where they can regularly win a first-round playoff game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 07:28:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:24:59 PM
I think several programs have shown they can sustain the level we're actually talking about -- the level where they can regularly win a first-round playoff game.

I.E.  Mary-Hardin Baylor, St. John's, UW-Whitewater, Wesley ...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 23, 2008, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 07:28:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:24:59 PM
I think several programs have shown they can sustain the level we're actually talking about -- the level where they can regularly win a first-round playoff game.

I.E.  Mary-Hardin Baylor, St. John's, UW-Whitewater, Wesley, Team Boltus...

Dont forget the one I added...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 23, 2008, 07:46:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:24:59 PM
I think several programs have shown they can sustain the level we're actually talking about -- the level where they can regularly win a first-round playoff game.


None really in the East/Northeast though. So Curry really shouldnt be singled out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 23, 2008, 08:20:16 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 06:15:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
We'll find out in the next couple years whether Curry is the next Wesley or the next Brockport State.

Ouch!  Right to the heart!  :(

Ooooh, you could have said West Conn and not insulted anyone (any current posters)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2008, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 02:54:46 PM
PC.. that is the best you have "they need to schedule someone"  so you know.  It is fact... you now know.  Curry is good and will be good.
Why do they need to play Someone from NJ or NY and take on a travel expense?  So you know?  The NCAA knows too... they knew before the game.  They can drive two hours and get a game.  Maybe you missed the boat on an entire conferece.  That is just not fair. 

Seems like the Fitchberg Curry game was indeed a good one.

The best player on the field that day was not even one of Curry's guys.
It was Thornton and Miller was #2.

Before the AQ these teams did not even get a chance.
Long before D3.com in the 16 team field years it was roughly the same 16 teams getting in.

I remember a PSU team comming up to South Hill field in 87 and beating IC in an ECAC game.

How about the 17-16 victory of CNJ over CGA in 96??

Look at the scores

How about RPI?? Who should they play?  So we know?
Utica and Endicott.  They get not a second look at that.
Had they won in week 10 they and Hobart were in.

Look back to Rowan v Bridgewater... two good teams in a good evenly matched game.  Top half type teams in their leagues.

Look at Montclair yesterday... wow the #2 NJAC team gets it handed to them.  Well Albright is good and that can happen.

My point is you can no longer make bold brushing statements about the East.  Every league has its good teams, average ones and bad teams.

IC used to have a roster loaded with the best D3 players from Mass.
Now they go to Curry and other NEFC teams. 

Curry does not have to do anything to satisfy anyone.
Anyone who can dominate an 18 team league gets and the runner up needs to get a hard look. 

The playing field is level and now alot of people shake their head and say it has come to this.







And I also remember Joe Dudek's team getting smoked by Union......I give Curry credit, but has Plymouth ever gotten out of New England??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 23, 2008, 08:28:36 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 23, 2008, 08:20:16 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 06:15:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:46:39 PM
We'll find out in the next couple years whether Curry is the next Wesley or the next Brockport State.

Ouch!  Right to the heart!  :(

Ooooh, you could have said West Conn and not insulted anyone (any current posters)

Yeah you should of picked some other flash in the pan to possibly compare Curry too...





Maybe Ithaca...

I kid...
I kid...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 08:31:14 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:03:42 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 23, 2008, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 06:10:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 05:59:11 PM
Yes, clearly I got confused and forgot everything I learned in 14 years of watching Division III football closely. :)

Not sure, honestly, how you expect me to re-evaluate the NEFC but not Curry. Seems impossible to do. I stand by my opinion that Curry should go out and schedule someone a little tougher than Worcester State next season for its 10th game.

Van De Geisen does indeed span the entire "Curry winning a playoff game" history, though. That's what raises Curry above the level of the average NEFC champion. That's what they have to show they can continue without him.

I understand it's hard to look at things objectively when you are so close to the program, but this is what reality is like from the outside.

Pat,

I never meant that you personally should evaluate the NEFC.  If it sounded that way then I apologize.  I do not know the resources of your organization.  I had suspected that someone might take a longer look that's all.  I also just hoped that based upon what has happened in NCAA playoffs over the past couple of years you might, just maybe, acknowledge there is some decent football being palyed in the NEFC.

Look you're the big dog so you get the heat.  I thought this day after a win at IC, and a pool c bid selection by the NCAA ,that of all the people that might take a shot at Curry and the NEFC it would not come from the D3 football guys themselves.  

Where I do completely agree with you is that Curry and some other NEFC teams need to schedule some outside competition.  Let's hope we see that happen next year.

BTW, I never ment to call into question your 14 years of experience.  But you know and I know that one player doesn't make a team.

Btown I don't think there is any question many of us overlooked Curry. The thing is though what you are not getting is who did we or any have to compare them to? I think Pat was being as objective as possible. I think you seem to have a passion and/or connection to the program so your mirror may be a bit foggy (very understandable though when it comes to U I can't even see through my mirror) ;D Even the win over Wick last year really was not all that impressive because of the amount of points Wick gave up throughout the season and the lack of consistency they had on the "D" side of the ball. Only now with the very impressive W at Ithaca are we seeing that Curry really is a good team. It is just hard to gauge though because of the lack of outside scheduling. I mean look Plmouth is obviously a talented team, they beat Curry but lost to Mt. IDA. WHat do we have in regards of consistent results to gauge the NEFC? It's just tough ya know? By the way no such thing as a one man team.......SEE HARTWICK....BOLTUS ;D

I understand your point and agree if it's possible a number of NEFC teams should try to schedule teams out of their league.  I had only originally asked Pat to re-evaluate the NEFC competition level.  It wasn't about Curry.  Look, I know its difficult to eveluate the teams in the NEFC without a benchmark game or two.  Curry has had three in two years and stands at 2-1 (Wick, St. Jonhs Fisher, and IC).  My point is the players in that league deserve a fair shake.  Its difficult.  But if a person wnats to be the sheriif then wear the badge and don't get pi$$ed off cause someone asks for some consideration.

I also acknowledge your many positive posts after yesterday's win.  You were cool to do that.  I actually registered to thank you and others but got cuaght up in this stuff.

Thanks BTOWN I really feel like I made some bone headed comments towards the NEFC that were unfounded and seemingly wrong. I appreciate you acknowleding my comments I meant them and will hopefully look more into a program and conference before I start barking out comments and goofing off. Saturday was a real big win for Curry and the NEFC. They deserve credit and I wanted to give it to them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2008, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:02:28 PM
Each of the other No. 7 seed has won playoff games with quarterbacks other than their current ones.

I guess you didn't read the post I was responding to, then. Mel said Curry is good and will be good. I don't think there are facts in evidence to suggest the latter, only the former. And that's why I note that Curry's only playoff wins are with the current quarterback, who is a senior.

You make it out to be an unsolicited shot at Curry, when in fact, I was called out by name and a claim was made that has dubious support. I called that assertion into question.

Are you following now?

Pat,

Yeah I am with you now.  I hope you will understand that my request for a re-evaluation of the NEFC comes from frustration (not with you).  As I said in my earlier post you're the big dog so you get the heat.  For that you have my appreciation and if I offened you my apologies. 

We're hopefully cool now?  Peace.


Pat's a good dude ...took me a while to understand this...but he is.....  You are by FAR the most knowledgable NEFC guy here.....Keep posting and don't get discouraged....we need more guys like you.

PS - Again we will call you a clown and an assmonkey, but you can call us the same
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:27:06 PM
By the QB comparison of Curry.

How many playoff games has St John Fisher won with out the QB who graduated last year?   

Wins by RPI without Cochran?

This is a very tough barometer because with the breakout of a program is usually a keystone player. 

At this point if you think Curry is now a solid playoff team you will see that.

If you feel Curry needs to further prove itself than IMO you may always feel this way or just plain want to.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2008, 10:14:06 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:27:06 PM
By the QB comparison of Curry.

How many playoff games has St John Fisher won with our the QB who graduated last year?   

Wins by RPI without Cochran?

This is a very tough barometer because with the breakout of a program is usually a keystone player. 

At this point if you think Curry is now a solid playoff team you will see that.

If you feel Curry needs to further prove itself than IMO you may always feel this way or just plain want to.
Respectfully, that is not what Pat Coleman is saying or what he has said.

pg04 mentioned four programs.

Wesley has stayed at the top thru numerous personnel changes.  Wesley was getting Pool B bids back in 2000!

UMHB has gone thru almost 3 cycles of players under Coach Fred with no drop-off.

UW-Whitewater has gone thru a coaching change and stayed at the top.

St John's?  Gagliardi!

All of us fans are now looking to see if Curry is a top flight program that is winning in the playoffs in 2010!  That is what he means.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:27:06 PM
By the QB comparison of Curry.

How many playoff games has St John Fisher won with our the QB who graduated last year?   

Wins by RPI without Cochran?


well, there were like 13 of them so be more specific...
http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=1541

Let's assume you mean Flynn, the WR who teamed up w/ Cole and graduated in 2003. There was no Cochrane as a "regular" QB (but he did take some snaps like a Wildcat formation)

Post-Flynn Cochrane:

2004: 5-4
2005:  8-2 (Beat SJF in ECAC)
2006:  7-3 (Beat Cortland in ECAC)
2007:   8-2 (Lost to TCNJ in NCAAs)
2008:  8-2 (Beat Alfred in ECACs)

Record "AC"...After-Cochrane:  36-13 
Do your homework dude......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2008, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:27:06 PM
By the QB comparison of Curry.

How many playoff games has St John Fisher won with our the QB who graduated last year?   

Wins by RPI without Cochran?


well, there were like 13 of them so be more specific...
http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=1541

Let's assume you mean Flynn, the WR who teamed up w/ Cole and graduated in 2003. There was no Cochrane as a "regular" QB (but he did take some snaps like a Wildcat formation)

Post-Flynn Cochrane:

2004: 5-4
2005:  8-2 (Beat SJF in ECAC)
2006:  7-3 (Beat Cortland in ECAC)
2007:   8-2 (Lost to TCNJ in NCAAs)
2008:  8-2 (Beat Alfred in ECACs)

Record "AC"...After-Cochrane:  36-13 
Do your homework dude......


Maybe it's me, but when do we start to differentiate between NCAA and ECAC.......lets compare apples to apples here.

Duke doesn't brag about going to the NIT's......I bet Ithaca doesn't pound thier chest about winning an ECAC game either.

Let's cut the Postseason crap out and keep it to an NCAA game please.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2008, 11:46:18 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 23, 2008, 11:00:38 PM
Maybe it's me, but when do we start to differentiate between NCAA and ECAC.......lets compare apples to apples here.

Duke doesn't brag about going to the NIT's......I bet Ithaca doesn't pound thier chest about winning an ECAC game either.

Let's cut the Postseason crap out and keep it to an NCAA game please.

I think you best listen to "In the HuddLLe" from tonight and listen to the opinions of the guys that actually willingly play in the ECACs before you go down this route once again.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 23, 2008, 11:54:08 PM
I agree that many players and teams are happy to play an extra game and happy with an ECAC win.  However, in the discussion that was taking place with the Curry posters, only the NCAA appearances are relevant as we're talking about programs that have been able to consistantly get to the NCAAs and win..
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mel on November 24, 2008, 12:42:45 AM
I did my homework and was only talking about the NCAA tourny.
I will not be part of an ECAC discussion as it is not worth much discussion.

So the answer was none as to how many playoff wins (NCAA) RPI had without their great class.   They were fun to watch.

I know one thing.. the people are into this chatter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 01:07:41 AM
NO ONE wakes up at 6am as an 18 year old kid to go to the gym and work out for a couple hours in the Summer thinking, "God, I hope I can get a bid to an ECAC game and be the 8th best team in the East."

Doesn't happen......before the season starts, any kid who says, "Hell ya, an ECAC bid is a great season for my school"......I don't want that kid in my program.

I don't care if I go to Union or Mt. Ida.......anything outside of a bid to the NCAA Tourmnament is a let down.

As an athlete, you don't play to be 10th best.....sorry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 01:07:41 AM
NO ONE wakes up at 6am as an 18 year old kid to go to the gym and work out for a couple hours in the Summer thinking, "God, I hope I can get a bid to an ECAC game and be the 8th best team in the East."

Doesn't happen......before the season starts, any kid who says, "Hell ya, an ECAC bid is a great season for my school"......I don't want that kid in my program.

I don't care if I go to Union or Mt. Ida.......anything outside of a bid to the NCAA Tourmnament is a let down.

As an athlete, you don't play to be 10th best.....sorry.

Interesting... Perhaps we should take your argument to the next level, since you seem to want to grandstand on it so badly...

----

No 16-year-old wakes up to go to the gym at 6AM in the morning to work out for a couple of hours in the summer thinking, "Boy, I really want to play for a Division III football program.  I want to be the fourth best in terms of divisional strength when I play football in college."

----

Interesting, isn't it?  Division III is deeply seeded in the idea that student-athletes who might not be the greatest at their sport can still find a competitive level at which to play and to excel as both students and athletes.  The ECAC games, while not the desired destination for an 18-year-old kid who is joining a program, much like Division III may not be the desired stopping point for a 16-year-old kid in high school, are the chance for a group of players to showcase their talents against teams that they may not otherwise play -- and can often prove memorable for a variety of reasons.

They are football games against generally strong teams that carry a definitive finality to them when they are played -- and thus, they count just as much, if not more, for any school participating in them.  Only about 15% of the teams in Division III will make it to the NCAA Playoffs in any given year.  If you're telling me that all of the other 85% of those teams are crap and not worth playing for a special additional game, then you need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid Jim McLaughlin is feeding you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 24, 2008, 06:34:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: mel on November 22, 2008, 11:29:57 PM
Smell the coffee... stop laying it on thick on the NEFC..
That goes for you as well Pat Coleman.

Now Curry should go out and actually SCHEDULE someone in the regular season. Don't leave us guessing in November as to whether you're actually good or not.

What a concept to actually play a challenging schedule.  You might want to forward the same memo to Husson just in case they run the table next year against SUNY Maritime, etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 24, 2008, 06:48:05 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 06:16:52 PM
Sorry, dude -- didn't mean to hit you in the Darnley.


Now that made me laugh.  +K!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 24, 2008, 08:08:04 AM
Quote from: Senor RedTackle on November 23, 2008, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: mel on November 23, 2008, 09:27:06 PM
By the QB comparison of Curry.

How many playoff games has St John Fisher won with our the QB who graduated last year?   

Wins by RPI without Cochran?


well, there were like 13 of them so be more specific...
http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=1541

Let's assume you mean Flynn, the WR who teamed up w/ Cole and graduated in 2003. There was no Cochrane as a "regular" QB (but he did take some snaps like a Wildcat formation)

Post-Flynn Cochrane:

2004: 5-4
2005:  8-2 (Beat SJF in ECAC)
2006:  7-3 (Beat Cortland in ECAC)
2007:   8-2 (Lost to TCNJ in NCAAs)
2008:  8-2 (Beat Alfred in ECACs)

Record "AC"...After-Cochrane:  36-13 
Do your homework dude......

me thinks he's thinking of Cole, but either way they graduated the same year.

Fellas, lets not dog the ECAC games.  Looking back on 2008, is Gro gonna talk about RPI's convincing in season victory against Endicott, or the ECAC win vs Alfred? ECAC games don't "count", but they are still games where teams can prove some things on the field (talent, coaching, etc).

It's much better than leaving it up to us basement dwelling posters to argue about it online long enough until Mom calls from upstairs and says my grilled cheese sandwich is getting cold....  uh, nevermind.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AwHg8EYbtPGhH7M%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.istockphoto.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F414752%2F2%2Fistockphoto_414752_grilled_cheese.jpg&hash=a4554ec73fe2310be7f0eb0fabcc76904473ed66)
Mmmmmmmmm.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2008, 08:40:28 AM
ECAC games are nice to win.  RPI is a GREAT ECAC team.  They are at this point in time, a flash in the pan as far as the NCAA goes.  No matter what Frank or anyone has to say with their personal differences, U89 is 100% correct.  EVERYONE involved with the RPI program SHOULD think that winning an ECAC game against Alfred is a letdown.  The expectations are much higher than that.

The horrible 16 year old, division III hypothetical was not even close to this discussion.  ECAC games are not 'postseason' as far as i'm concerned.  They are that 10th game against a decent opponent that should have been scheduled in the first place. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 10:43:31 AM
Just a comment here today I was talking with a friend who graduated from Brockport last year and he was talking about their loss to Morrisville last year in mud and slop. Don't know if this is true for sure but he was saying that he was told that if they won that game there would have been the possibility of getting an ECAC bid. He said he was crushed at the fact that he may have had the opoortunity to play one more game, seemingly considering an ECAC bid as "postseason." I really don't know how I feel about it either way but thought that was an interesting discussion we had. He was speaking from the heart and really really wanted that ECAC game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 08:40:28 AM
ECAC games are nice to win.  RPI is a GREAT ECAC team.  They are at this point in time, a flash in the pan as far as the NCAA goes.  No matter what Frank or anyone has to say with their personal differences, U89 is 100% correct.  EVERYONE involved with the RPI program SHOULD think that winning an ECAC game against Alfred is a letdown.  The expectations are much higher than that.

The horrible 16 year old, division III hypothetical was not even close to this discussion.  ECAC games are not 'postseason' as far as i'm concerned.  They are that 10th game against a decent opponent that should have been scheduled in the first place. 

First off, it's an analogy, not a hypothetical...

Second, care to explain why the analogy missed the mark before I breathe fire like a Cortland dragon?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.


To further the point, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:28:38 AM
Nobody is saying that ECAC games are primary "goals" per se.  What we're saying, those who agree with me, is that the goal is for a postseason game (much like the 16-year-old football player's goal is to play in college).  Now the specific goal is to play in the NCAA Playoffs (akin to playing at an FBS school for the 16-year-old player).  Only 15% of the teams will get to meet that goal in Division III (the 16-year-old player faces probably lower odds in terms of players who aim to achieve a spot on FBS teams).  If the team falls short, they are still generally excited to be:

1) Recognized for their accomplishments on the field that year with a potential ECAC bid; and

2) Playing an additional game against a very good team to see how far the team has come that season in a variety of senses.

(for the 16-year-old player, he may be offered a spot on a D-3 team, which recognizes his accomplishments on the field and allows him to play at a collegiate level to see how he matches up and to continue his football growth).

My point is this -- just because our PRIMARY aim is not the ECACs doesn't render them meaningless.  If you buy into that theory, then seriously, you're rendering a secondary level of many things, including lower divisions of college football, meaningless unless you are going to sit there and be a hypocrite.  I'd wager that a good number of the people trying to dictate this type of point are the same people who will watch the Las Vegas Bowl, the St. Petersburg Bowl, etc... These are secondary, meaningless games, too, if you feel the ECAC games are meaningless.  They come from the same basic premise -- there's a desire for the teams, fans and schools to participate in such a game.  If you truly don't want to play, DON'T FILE.  Simply stated.

[Edit:  And to this whole "they don't count" point -- BULLSH**.  The games still last four quarters, are sanctioned by the NCAA, have a winner and a loser, abide by the rules of College Football and still rely on the teams to play their butts off against most likely a team as good as, if not better than, most teams the team has played that season.  This weekend provides even MORE evidence to the meaning and purposes of these games -- and yet, some people are going to sit here and attempt to discredit them?  ON WHAT BASIS?  I challenge all of you naysayers to go to the ECACs PP right now (since we're off-topic here) and post your bases instead of just dogging the damned games without justification.  JU maybe gave us the most sensible discussion so far related to that side of the argument, but his answer seems to suggest he reaches an inconclusive point, with the point riding on who the beholder is of the games.  C'mon now -- state your cause if you really want to convince people here.  U89 took 12 hours since he saw my post to say he'd rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.  WOW.  No sh** dufus.  Teams don't CHOOSE whether they get an NCAA slot or not.  Your arguments are really underwhelming.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.


To further the point, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.

Well in the grand scheme of things I agree, but I bet the Husson players (if they had won) would feel a lot better about their season than the Ithaca players do right now.  And thats not a shot against the IC guys, but losing at any round stings.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:28:38 AM
Nobody is saying that ECAC games are primary "goals" per se.  What we're saying, those who agree with me, is that the goal is for a postseason game (much like the 16-year-old football player's goal is to play in college).  Now the specific goal is to play in the NCAA Playoffs (akin to playing at an FBS school for the 16-year-old player).  Only 15% of the teams will get to meet that goal in Division III (the 16-year-old player faces probably lower odds in terms of players who aim to achieve a spot on FBS teams).  If the team falls short, they are still generally excited to be:

1) Recognized for their accomplishments on the field that year with a potential ECAC bid; and

2) Playing an additional game against a very good team to see how far the team has come that season in a variety of senses.

(for the 16-year-old player, he may be offered a spot on a D-3 team, which recognizes his accomplishments on the field and allows him to play at a collegiate level to see how he matches up and to continue his football growth).

My point is this -- just because our PRIMARY aim is not the ECACs doesn't render them meaningless.  If you buy into that theory, then seriously, you're rendering a secondary level of many things, including lower divisions of college football, meaningless unless you are going to sit there and be a hypocrite.  I'd wager that a good number of the people trying to dictate this type of point are the same people who will watch the Las Vegas Bowl, the St. Petersburg Bowl, etc... These are secondary, meaningless games, too, if you feel the ECAC games are meaningless.  They come from the same basic premise -- there's a desire for the teams, fans and schools to participate in such a game.  If you truly don't want to play, DON'T FILE.  Simply stated.

Frank I agree with everything you said, but sometimes there is that team that derseves to make the playoffs but doesn't get in.  Now that team is chosen, or files(and thats a good point you mention here) for a game that isn't meaningless but still doesn't mean as much as the playoffs do.  I mean, we can't say the nescac season is meaningless just because they don't have playoffs, but there is something to be said for playing for a national championship and not just a league title.

Its kind of hard to put into words but I hope it makes a little sense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:45:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.


To further the point, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.

Well in the grand scheme of things I agree, but I bet the Husson players (if they had won) would feel a lot better about their season than the Ithaca players do right now.  And thats not a shot against the IC guys, but losing at any round stings.


How about the Fisher staff playing the whole roster?  Were the Cardinals, 'taking the game seriously'?  Would they have played everyone had it been an NCAA game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.


To further the point, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.

See your point U89 and I think it holds a lot of validity, it's a tough call though. I think I would rather make it to the "show" and lose then play in an ECAC game BUT I think an ECAC game can be very positive and help a program grow and gain momentum for the follwing year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:28:38 AM
Nobody is saying that ECAC games are primary "goals" per se.  What we're saying, those who agree with me, is that the goal is for a postseason game (much like the 16-year-old football player's goal is to play in college).  Now the specific goal is to play in the NCAA Playoffs (akin to playing at an FBS school for the 16-year-old player).  Only 15% of the teams will get to meet that goal in Division III (the 16-year-old player faces probably lower odds in terms of players who aim to achieve a spot on FBS teams).  If the team falls short, they are still generally excited to be:

1) Recognized for their accomplishments on the field that year with a potential ECAC bid; and

2) Playing an additional game against a very good team to see how far the team has come that season in a variety of senses.

(for the 16-year-old player, he may be offered a spot on a D-3 team, which recognizes his accomplishments on the field and allows him to play at a collegiate level to see how he matches up and to continue his football growth).

My point is this -- just because our PRIMARY aim is not the ECACs doesn't render them meaningless.  If you buy into that theory, then seriously, you're rendering a secondary level of many things, including lower divisions of college football, meaningless unless you are going to sit there and be a hypocrite.  I'd wager that a good number of the people trying to dictate this type of point are the same people who will watch the Las Vegas Bowl, the St. Petersburg Bowl, etc... These are secondary, meaningless games, too, if you feel the ECAC games are meaningless.  They come from the same basic premise -- there's a desire for the teams, fans and schools to participate in such a game.  If you truly don't want to play, DON'T FILE.  Simply stated.

Frank I agree with everything you said, but sometimes there is that team that derseves to make the playoffs but doesn't get in.  Now that team is chosen, or files(and thats a good point you mention here) for a game that isn't meaningless but still doesn't mean as much as the playoffs do.  I mean, we can't say the nescac season is meaningless just because they don't have playoffs, but there is something to be said for playing for a national championship and not just a league title.

Its kind of hard to put into words but I hope it makes a little sense.

I DON'T DISAGREE.  The point I'm bitching about here is the idea U89 came up with last night when Senor RT pointed out ECAC victories for RPI that they should be discounted from the equation -- that they're meaningless and not really postseason games (paraphrasing).  There is absolutely no rational basis to make such a demeaning statement after 14 teams played their hearts out this past Saturday, splitting 7 Ws and 7 Ls in generally well-played games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2008, 03:32:43 PM

Mel you conveniently leave out the times where undefeated NEFC teams get spanked in the first round to other east teams who might have lost to other east teams in the playoffs. (8-2 east team sits home while 10-0 nefc team loses by 5 TDs)

1987 Ithaca/Plymouth St ECAC game?  Are you kidding me?  How about when Ithaca had to travel up and spank around the 1994 undefeated Plymouth team that was so great.

Or the 1996 6-3 Ithaca team that beat up on 10-0 Worcester St?

You also conveniently left out the Springfield/Fitchburg game this year where the 5th place E8 team destroyed the NEFCs 5th place team.

Im also not so sure kids are choosing NEFC schools over Ithaca because of football programs.  That simply is not happening 99% of the time.

A lot of people defended the Curry pick, including me.  We all talked about it but I wasnt that suprised.

And I want you to answer my other question. 

What happens if Cortland beats Curry 48-0?  Its not as simple as one game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 11:50:09 AM
Sorry...too quick on the button and I apologize as I am just catching up with the posters from the weekend.  With regard to above....geesh, do you think you could come up with more current references????  1987, 1994, 1996....you are living in the past.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:54:15 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 01:07:41 AM
NO ONE wakes up at 6am as an 18 year old kid to go to the gym and work out for a couple hours in the Summer thinking, "God, I hope I can get a bid to an ECAC game and be the 8th best team in the East."

Doesn't happen......before the season starts, any kid who says, "Hell ya, an ECAC bid is a great season for my school"......I don't want that kid in my program.

I don't care if I go to Union or Mt. Ida.......anything outside of a bid to the NCAA Tourmnament is a let down.

As an athlete, you don't play to be 10th best.....sorry.

Interesting... Perhaps we should take your argument to the next level, since you seem to want to grandstand on it so badly...

----

No 16-year-old wakes up to go to the gym at 6AM in the morning to work out for a couple of hours in the summer thinking, "Boy, I really want to play for a Division III football program.  I want to be the fourth best in terms of divisional strength when I play football in college."

----

Interesting, isn't it?  Division III is deeply seeded in the idea that student-athletes who might not be the greatest at their sport can still find a competitive level at which to play and to excel as both students and athletes.  The ECAC games, while not the desired destination for an 18-year-old kid who is joining a program, much like Division III may not be the desired stopping point for a 16-year-old kid in high school, are the chance for a group of players to showcase their talents against teams that they may not otherwise play -- and can often prove memorable for a variety of reasons.

They are football games against generally strong teams that carry a definitive finality to them when they are played -- and thus, they count just as much, if not more, for any school participating in them.  Only about 15% of the teams in Division III will make it to the NCAA Playoffs in any given year.  If you're telling me that all of the other 85% of those teams are crap and not worth playing for a special additional game, then you need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid Jim McLaughlin is feeding you.


Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:54:15 AM
Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:54:15 AM
Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 11:50:09 AM
Sorry...too quick on the button and I apologize as I am just catching up with the posters from the weekend.  With regard to above....geesh, do you think you could come up with more current references????  1987, 1994, 1996....you are living in the past.

clandfan read back further.  I was responding to a post to Mel who wanted to use a 1987 ECAC game as an example of NE teams being dangerous.  I wanted to show there were 10X as many examples the other way is all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 24, 2008, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:54:15 AM
Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?

Could you both please take it off the boards, you are both getting very old and tired with this bullSH!#.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:04:30 PM
My main point to RT is that he stated that RPI had 5 straight post season appearances.  Four of those appearances were ECAC games....I stated my feelings that there is a HUGE difference with lumping both ECAC and NCAA games together as 'Postseason'.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 12:05:51 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 24, 2008, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:54:15 AM
Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?

Could you both please take it off the boards, you are both getting very old and tired with this bullSH!#.

I've given my number twice.  The phone has yet to ring.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 11:50:09 AM
Sorry...too quick on the button and I apologize as I am just catching up with the posters from the weekend.  With regard to above....geesh, do you think you could come up with more current references????  1987, 1994, 1996....you are living in the past.

clandfan read back further.  I was responding to a post to Mel who wanted to use a 1987 ECAC game as an example of NE teams being dangerous.  I wanted to show there were 10X as many examples the other way is all.

Apologies...I was hoping however that I would be catching up on the scuttlebutt about Curry v. Cortland and other playoff games and all I am reading about is  history older than many of the kids currently playing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:28:38 AM
Nobody is saying that ECAC games are primary "goals" per se.  What we're saying, those who agree with me, is that the goal is for a postseason game (much like the 16-year-old football player's goal is to play in college).  Now the specific goal is to play in the NCAA Playoffs (akin to playing at an FBS school for the 16-year-old player).  Only 15% of the teams will get to meet that goal in Division III (the 16-year-old player faces probably lower odds in terms of players who aim to achieve a spot on FBS teams).  If the team falls short, they are still generally excited to be:

1) Recognized for their accomplishments on the field that year with a potential ECAC bid; and

2) Playing an additional game against a very good team to see how far the team has come that season in a variety of senses.

(for the 16-year-old player, he may be offered a spot on a D-3 team, which recognizes his accomplishments on the field and allows him to play at a collegiate level to see how he matches up and to continue his football growth).

My point is this -- just because our PRIMARY aim is not the ECACs doesn't render them meaningless.  If you buy into that theory, then seriously, you're rendering a secondary level of many things, including lower divisions of college football, meaningless unless you are going to sit there and be a hypocrite.  I'd wager that a good number of the people trying to dictate this type of point are the same people who will watch the Las Vegas Bowl, the St. Petersburg Bowl, etc... These are secondary, meaningless games, too, if you feel the ECAC games are meaningless.  They come from the same basic premise -- there's a desire for the teams, fans and schools to participate in such a game.  If you truly don't want to play, DON'T FILE.  Simply stated.

[Edit:  And to this whole "they don't count" point -- BULLSH**.  The games still last four quarters, are sanctioned by the NCAA, have a winner and a loser, abide by the rules of College Football and still rely on the teams to play their butts off against most likely a team as good as, if not better than, most teams the team has played that season.  This weekend provides even MORE evidence to the meaning and purposes of these games -- and yet, some people are going to sit here and attempt to discredit them?  ON WHAT BASIS?  I challenge all of you naysayers to go to the ECACs PP right now (since we're off-topic here) and post your bases instead of just dogging the damned games without justification.  JU maybe gave us the most sensible discussion so far related to that side of the argument, but his answer seems to suggest he reaches an inconclusive point, with the point riding on who the beholder is of the games.  C'mon now -- state your cause if you really want to convince people here.  U89 took 12 hours since he saw my post to say he'd rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.  WOW.  No sh** dufus.  Teams don't CHOOSE whether they get an NCAA slot or not.  Your arguments are really underwhelming.]


I'm attempting to have a conversation and I get called a 'dufus'......should I ignore it again, as I have in the past?  I asked to be ignored by him as I dismiss anything he says.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 12:08:53 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:45:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM
While Im waiting for my grilled cheese (gro did you see 'blizzard man' Sat night?), Id like to make a final point....

I think we can all agree that the ECACs are like the NIT and the NCAA playoffs are like.....well the NCAA playoffs?

I mean ask yourself, what would you rather be, the d3 NCAA champion, or the ECAC champion?  The answer is easy.  But sometimes different football teams or programs find themselves in different spots at the end of the season.  

Go back to the d1 b-ball example.  

-There are going to be large conference teams that are upset they didnt make the field of 64, and end up in the NIT.  It happens.  They can still go out and play some more basketball.  

-Then there are the teams from smaller conferences, who know they arent going to make it, but might have a chance to prove something in the NIT against those large conference schools who didnt make it.  

-Then there are the teams who might have been new to d1, and now have a chance to showcase something on a bigger stage.

-Then there are the teams who might have started the season with a bunch of losses, and knew they werent going to make the playoffs.  They might have come back strong at the end of the season and were looking for something to prove.

-Then there might be some programs who have been down for a while who are now back up and might have a chance to prove something.

The list goes on and on and the more I type, the more pointless the whole thing seems to me.

ECAC's are good in some situations, but they should never be the overall goal of a football team that is serious about playing d3 football.  Playoffs are there for a reason.


To further the point, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.

Well in the grand scheme of things I agree, but I bet the Husson players (if they had won) would feel a lot better about their season than the Ithaca players do right now.  And thats not a shot against the IC guys, but losing at any round stings.


How about the Fisher staff playing the whole roster?  Were the Cardinals, 'taking the game seriously'?  Would they have played everyone had it been an NCAA game?

Yea good point I didn't know that happened.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 12:18:34 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:07:52 PM
I'm attempting to have a conversation and I get called a 'dufus'......should I ignore it again, as I have in the past?  I asked to be ignored by him as I dismiss anything he says.

You've manufactured this idea that teams AIM for ECAC games.  Then you use this strange point to dig in against the ECAC games and their meaning again.  You're using circular reasoning, and now that I've called you on that point, all you can do is point to y comment that the AD, YOUR FRIEND AND FORMER TEAMMATE (and was he a fraternity brother?) has probably weighed in with you on his feelings.  Then you bring up Union's Special Teams?

Instead of smokescreening and crying wolf, why don't you answer the points I made?  Thanks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.


Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 01:30:13 PM
So....how about some east regional playoff discussion.  How does Cortland stop Curry's QB?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.


Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.

Has anyone defined a "true" play-off game?  Obviously, an ECAC game is not a NCAA play-off game.  But it is a game....which is an opportunity to compete....which is an opportunity to preapare, work hard, create a lasting memory, bond with teammates, take one last bus-ride/road-trip....and WIN!  Who can argue against that?  If you argue against that, you either never played the game, never appreciated the game you played or are simply voicing an opinion in this vacuum called "Post Patterns"

If there is a game, and you are in it....you take it seriously and play to win.  To suggest that SJF didnt take the game seriously while pretending that you know the team is ignorant. 

Like someone said....52 players playing is not exactly like suiting up the 3rd string JV player who hasnt played a down yet.  It is called a TEAM for a reason.  It's kinda like with injuries.  Someone has to step in with no excuses.  Are the Patriots not taking things seriously because they stuck by Cassel, an unproven unknown, instead of going after a back-up with experience somewhere...ie:Culpepper?   

SJF won the game with the team they put on the field.  Is it ok for the coaches to reason that they could accomplish many desired goals in that game:  play the seniors
            compete
            have fun
            WIN???

Nobody said that the ECAC is the equivalent of the NCAA!  But those who are suggesting that a game, where there are real winners and losers, and real memories being etched that will last a lifetime, doesnt really matter, are morons!!!

Is a million dollars money to Bill Gates?  No   But it is to me!   When I was a senior on a program that I helped build from 0-9 (2tds on the whole season) to a program that went 7-3, beating the likes of a solid RPI team, beating a very good Catholic team on the road, among others....you better believe a whole bunch of us gathered at Coach V's office to await the telephone call from the ECAC committee...unfortunately it never came.  But as I posted a couple weeks ago...our last regualr season game was a victory which helps lessen the sting over time.  To say that you would reather win NCAA than lose ECAC is a bit narrow.  Obviously I would rather be in the position that got the NCAA berth (sure the ride to get there was more fun than the ride to an ECAC berth), but when it is all said and done...ask IC seniors if they would rather be SJF Seniors yesterday morning? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 24, 2008, 01:44:16 PM
Chemically enhanced cavemen are missing one key element that curry has in abundance:
PURPLE DRANK

Symbol: Pd
# Electrons: 47
# Protons: 58
# 'Gro-trons: 14

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealthcoastconference.com%2Fimages%2Fgen%2F2007%2F8%2F31%2Fcurry-color.jpg&hash=e1507432078c65914d4b14465d312ecc3fd100b3) vs. (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A5ODjh-lQDmrhXM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fse2.selektive-erinnerung.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F05%2Fcaptain-caveman1.jpg&hash=3265d6181b8c39b50b1c3e0f073c7d6a4b35aff5)

Get your drank on @ The Chugger - 11/29/08

IT'S SCIENCE
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2008, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 24, 2008, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 11:54:15 AM
Man, you have a lot of misdirected anger.

I have stated that the Union College special teams units have cost the team wins this year.  That being said, on November 8 at about 9:00pm, I discussed my concerns with members of the Union staff at the Parker Inn in Schenectady.  You know what....the coached agreed with me and stated that the performance of that unit had already been discussed and would be a focus of next years team.

Frank, you continue to bash Union's AD through me.....very misdirected....as I said to you before, you should sack up and contact the AD instead of being the professional you are and slamming him in public on message boards.

I simply sell medical equipment in the Boston area, I have no control over what happens in Schenectady...a little FYI for ya.

Ummm... Thanks for the monologue.  Now would you mind defending your point regarding the ECACs?  I'm not sure where Union's Special Teams and the ECAC games exactly mesh here. 

I included the post from last night where you again brought up the AD....did you miss that?

Could you both please take it off the boards, you are both getting very old and tired with this bullSH!#.

Agreed! AGAIN! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 02:22:36 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 18, 2008, 03:52:18 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2008, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 18, 2008, 03:39:17 PM
I admit to not be a follower of the teams from other regions, but how does Mt. Union draw a 4 loss Randolph-Macon team in the first round.  Also, do they stand a snowballs chance in hell of pulling the upset?

I don't get the question.  How do they draw a 4 loss team???  Well, they moved Randolph-Macon to the East.  They were an automatic bid.  They got the 8 seed.  Mount Union was also moved to the East.  They are the best team ever assembled.  They got a 1 seed.  1 plays 8.  Cool?

And no, Randolph-Macon doesn't stand a snowball in hell's chance at pulling an upset.  They lost to MAC bottom Feeder King's...

OK, I didn't know they were an automatic bid, I saw they were in a four way tie in their conference and 2 of the teams were 8-2. 

From the ODAC - and the alma mater of D3fb's own K-Mack

Should I cringe or beam with pride?

The Purple Drank posts from the same page had me rolling.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 02:29:32 PM
If T-Shirts are being made, I want one.

Quote from: 'gro on November 24, 2008, 01:44:16 PM
Chemically enhanced cavemen are missing one key element that curry has in abundance:
PURPLE DRANK

Symbol: Pd
# Electrons: 47
# Protons: 58
# 'Gro-trons: 14

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealthcoastconference.com%2Fimages%2Fgen%2F2007%2F8%2F31%2Fcurry-color.jpg&hash=e1507432078c65914d4b14465d312ecc3fd100b3) vs. (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A5ODjh-lQDmrhXM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fse2.selektive-erinnerung.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F05%2Fcaptain-caveman1.jpg&hash=3265d6181b8c39b50b1c3e0f073c7d6a4b35aff5)

Get your drank on @ The Chugger - 11/29/08

IT'S SCIENCE
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 02:30:08 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 24, 2008, 01:44:16 PM
Chemically enhanced cavemen are missing one key element that curry has in abundance:
PURPLE DRANK

Symbol: Pd
# Electrons: 47
# Protons: 58
# 'Gro-trons: 14

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealthcoastconference.com%2Fimages%2Fgen%2F2007%2F8%2F31%2Fcurry-color.jpg&hash=e1507432078c65914d4b14465d312ecc3fd100b3) vs. (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A5ODjh-lQDmrhXM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fse2.selektive-erinnerung.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F05%2Fcaptain-caveman1.jpg&hash=3265d6181b8c39b50b1c3e0f073c7d6a4b35aff5)

Get your drank on @ The Chugger - 11/29/08

IT'S SCIENCE

Yeah...it's science all right.  Easy science....so easy that even "chemically enhanced cavemen" can do it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 24, 2008, 02:52:30 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 02:30:08 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 24, 2008, 01:44:16 PM
Chemically enhanced cavemen are missing one key element that curry has in abundance:
PURPLE DRANK

Symbol: Pd
# Electrons: 47
# Protons: 58
# 'Gro-trons: 14

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealthcoastconference.com%2Fimages%2Fgen%2F2007%2F8%2F31%2Fcurry-color.jpg&hash=e1507432078c65914d4b14465d312ecc3fd100b3) vs. (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A5ODjh-lQDmrhXM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fse2.selektive-erinnerung.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F05%2Fcaptain-caveman1.jpg&hash=3265d6181b8c39b50b1c3e0f073c7d6a4b35aff5)

Get your drank on @ The Chugger - 11/29/08

IT'S SCIENCE

Yeah...it's science all right.  Easy science....so easy that even "chemically enhanced cavemen" can do it!

So how long untile we see another C and an E on those Cortland Helmets?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 02:55:17 PM
OK, real reason I stopped by.

Was any Hobart or LL fan particularly put off by this?:

QuoteToughest path to Salem
Hobart hasn't gotten enough attention for what it's done this season, and being mentioned here isn't really for the right reason either. Should the Statesmen get past three-loss Lycoming at home, they would travel to Mount Union. Then even with a stunning upset, they could still have to get through Ithaca or Cortland State and the North Central Bracket champion for a Stagg Bowl appearance. So, yeah, enjoy that home game.

I didn't think it was bad, especially taken as a whole, but there's a Hobart parent who vehemently disagrees. Put off mostly by the last line.

It's to the point where I haven't opened his latest reply, because I know me, and I'm not good at letting someone else have the last word, so if I read it, it'll never end.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 24, 2008, 03:09:48 PM
Tell him if they wanted an easier road, they should not have slipped up against Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2008, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 02:55:17 PM
OK, real reason I stopped by.

Was any Hobart or LL fan particularly put off by this?:

QuoteToughest path to Salem
Hobart hasn't gotten enough attention for what it's done this season, and being mentioned here isn't really for the right reason either. Should the Statesmen get past three-loss Lycoming at home, they would travel to Mount Union. Then even with a stunning upset, they could still have to get through Ithaca or Cortland State and the North Central Bracket champion for a Stagg Bowl appearance. So, yeah, enjoy that home game.

I didn't think it was bad, especially taken as a whole, but there's a Hobart parent who vehemently disagrees. Put off mostly by the last line.

It's to the point where I haven't opened his latest reply, because I know me, and I'm not good at letting someone else have the last word, so if I read it, it'll never end.

I thought it was pretty true to be honest.  They DID enjoy their home game.  Now, to get any further, they have some wood to saw through.  Couldn't they 'technically' get a home game vs. DSB though?   ERRONEOUS STATEMENT!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
KMac....that is really bad...dissing em like that. how insulting, offensive and ignorant of you.  show some self control man, that was way out of line, uncalled for.  What did they ever do to you?  What were you thinking...up in their grill and all?  Unbelievable...just unbelievable.  Completely classless...you had no right.  It was irresponsible.  YOu showed poor judgement...how dare you! just awful.  How could you?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 24, 2008, 03:20:04 PM
I would guess beating Mount anywhere in the playoffs could feel almost as good as beating them in the finals.  Although I bet those Rowan guys felt bitter after Pac Lute stomped them a week after.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 24, 2008, 03:24:41 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 02:55:17 PM
OK, real reason I stopped by.

Was any Hobart or LL fan particularly put off by this?:

QuoteToughest path to Salem
Hobart hasn't gotten enough attention for what it's done this season, and being mentioned here isn't really for the right reason either. Should the Statesmen get past three-loss Lycoming at home, they would travel to Mount Union. Then even with a stunning upset, they could still have to get through Ithaca or Cortland State and the North Central Bracket champion for a Stagg Bowl appearance. So, yeah, enjoy that home game.

I didn't think it was bad, especially taken as a whole, but there's a Hobart parent who vehemently disagrees. Put off mostly by the last line.

It's to the point where I haven't opened his latest reply, because I know me, and I'm not good at letting someone else have the last word, so if I read it, it'll never end.

TGP responded to this on the ATN, but the reality is, if Cortland took care of business in the first place we wouldn't be having this discussion.  XRed is correct as well.  If Hobart didn't whiff on 3 FGs and was 9-0 to end the season, they could have potentially been the #1 seed after Cortland lost.  

Since both teams didn't finish undefeated, we (aka the East although this whole region thing is really another NCAA sponsored joke in a way, but that's a whole other topic) deserved MUC in "our" bracket.  End of story.

Regardless of where they ended up, if you want to win a NC you'll probably have to play MUC anyway, so a 2nd vs a later round game really doesn't make a difference anyway.

The last line was a bit snide, but also true in a way.  Obviously this parent took it a little too personally, but that's his issue not yours.  As you, Pat, etc have said many, many times, it's not your job to "sugarcoat" things.  TGP is cool with that stance.  Still, it also wouldn't hurt to discuss the "what if" scenarios too, but TGP understands that you guys have a lot on your plate with all the games, so spending additional time analyzing a game that MUC will probably win anyway (they have only lost 5 games in 10 years after all) may not be that high a priority.  

Regardless, since Hobart hasn't been able to advance past the 2nd round yet, we are the team with something to prove, not MUC.  Honestly Hobart has nothing to lose other than the game.  If they somehow pull off the upset, it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  If they lose, so what?  It will suck, but at least they had a shot at the best team in the country.  If anything a "quality loss" is often rewarded by pollsters, etc from a national standpoint which will be helpful for Hobart getting themselves (and indirectly the LL) a little more respect going into the 2009 season.

Not sure if that answers your originally posed question but that this "Frank Rossi of Hobart"'s view.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 03:26:14 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 24, 2008, 02:52:30 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 02:30:08 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 24, 2008, 01:44:16 PM
Chemically enhanced cavemen are missing one key element that curry has in abundance:
PURPLE DRANK

Symbol: Pd
# Electrons: 47
# Protons: 58
# 'Gro-trons: 14

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecommonwealthcoastconference.com%2Fimages%2Fgen%2F2007%2F8%2F31%2Fcurry-color.jpg&hash=e1507432078c65914d4b14465d312ecc3fd100b3) vs. (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A5ODjh-lQDmrhXM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fse2.selektive-erinnerung.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F05%2Fcaptain-caveman1.jpg&hash=3265d6181b8c39b50b1c3e0f073c7d6a4b35aff5)

Get your drank on @ The Chugger - 11/29/08

IT'S SCIENCE

Yeah...it's science all right.  Easy science....so easy that even "chemically enhanced cavemen" can do it!

So how long untile we see another C and an E on those Cortland Helmets?
I don't know about the C and E but I kind of like the hairy guy with the club.  Might be a good logo but I am sure someone might find it politically insensitive.  Wouldn't want to insult the heritage of someone with a name like...well, i don't know...let's say ....  'gro
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 03:32:49 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 01:30:13 PM
So....how about some east regional playoff discussion.  How does Cortland stop Curry's QB?

Very simple, by knocking him on his azz early and often.  When we rattle his cage it will throw off their entire offense. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 03:37:04 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 24, 2008, 03:24:41 PM
TGP responded to this on the ATN

I did see that after I posted here. Good looking out, I can always count on the LLPP, etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 03:40:44 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 03:32:49 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 01:30:13 PM
So....how about some east regional playoff discussion.  How does Cortland stop Curry's QB?

Very simple, by knocking him on his azz early and often.  When we rattle his cage it will throw off their entire offense. 

I agree but we haven't shown much of an ability to do that this year.  We have had moments but statistically our harrassment of the QB has been subpar.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 03:43:31 PM
When we have generated a rush we have had no containment and the QB runs for first downs.  This is a much more difficult matchup than PSU was.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:10 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.


Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.

Has anyone defined a "true" play-off game?  Obviously, an ECAC game is not a NCAA play-off game.  But it is a game....which is an opportunity to compete....which is an opportunity to preapare, work hard, create a lasting memory, bond with teammates, take one last bus-ride/road-trip....and WIN!  Who can argue against that?  If you argue against that, you either never played the game, never appreciated the game you played or are simply voicing an opinion in this vacuum called "Post Patterns"

If there is a game, and you are in it....you take it seriously and play to win.  To suggest that SJF didnt take the game seriously while pretending that you know the team is ignorant. 

Like someone said....52 players playing is not exactly like suiting up the 3rd string JV player who hasnt played a down yet.  It is called a TEAM for a reason.  It's kinda like with injuries.  Someone has to step in with no excuses.  Are the Patriots not taking things seriously because they stuck by Cassel, an unproven unknown, instead of going after a back-up with experience somewhere...ie:Culpepper?   

SJF won the game with the team they put on the field.  Is it ok for the coaches to reason that they could accomplish many desired goals in that game:  play the seniors
            compete
            have fun
            WIN???

Nobody said that the ECAC is the equivalent of the NCAA!  But those who are suggesting that a game, where there are real winners and losers, and real memories being etched that will last a lifetime, doesnt really matter, are morons!!!

Is a million dollars money to Bill Gates?  No   But it is to me!   When I was a senior on a program that I helped build from 0-9 (2tds on the whole season) to a program that went 7-3, beating the likes of a solid RPI team, beating a very good Catholic team on the road, among others....you better believe a whole bunch of us gathered at Coach V's office to await the telephone call from the ECAC committee...unfortunately it never came.  But as I posted a couple weeks ago...our last regualr season game was a victory which helps lessen the sting over time.  To say that you would reather win NCAA than lose ECAC is a bit narrow.  Obviously I would rather be in the position that got the NCAA berth (sure the ride to get there was more fun than the ride to an ECAC berth), but when it is all said and done...ask IC seniors if they would rather be SJF Seniors yesterday morning? 


82, I wasn't taking a shot at the Fisher program when I questioned playing 2nd stringers.  A lot of people have stated all the positives an ECAC victory can do for a program......My question is, if there is that much to gain, why risk losing the game by not putting your best players out there?

I would guess that the SJF staff was looking at the game as a fun experience for the players....nothing wrong with that.  On the flipside, a backup would not have seen the field if this were an NCAA game unless Fisher were up by 35 in the 4th.

An NCAA game is Postseason and matters more.......An ECAC game is an exhibition much the same way a preseason game is.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 03:43:31 PM
When we have generated a rush we have had no containment and the QB runs for first downs.  This is a much more difficult matchup than PSU was.

Well I wish I could see tape of them, I noticed that their QB had the most carries on their team.  Are they some sort of hybrid option team?  I am not sure how I would game plan them until I saw what they ran.  I noticed their FB had a lot of carries and they had several FBs on the roster so I am wondering if they ran triple option.  Has anyone seen them?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 03:53:19 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2008, 01:57:05 PM
Agreed! AGAIN! 

Just landed home for Thanksgiving, so I wanna catch up in a single post -- First to pg04 on the above, I'm attempting to defend the honor of the 14 teams that participated in some strong matchups this past weekend,  and the teams that have played ECAC games with dignity and honor prior to this year.  My arguments against his manufactured concepts have nothing to do with my distaste for how he's carried himself this season with respect to Union.  You guys always seem to let him off the hook when I ask him to explain himself -- this is the point when he starts his finger pointing and ranting against me.  Just once, maybe, hold him accountable for some of his off-base statements.  Lord knows you guys always jump on my comments if you smell the least bit of odor coming from them!

-------------

pg, thanks for the kudos on the LLPP re: "In the HuddLLe" -- it's been a pleasure for both myself and RT to put that together this season.

-------------

K-Mack, it does ooze in sarcasm (ask me, I'm Italian -- sarcasm is next to the bottle of hair grease in my bathroom cabinet).  It would've been a lot different if you had said, "Things could be worse, though -- Lycoming would have the same path, except they have to visit a torn up Boswell Field."  That being said, I don't think it was worth trouncing you over, if that's what the parent has done.

-------------

U89...Since I'm back home in Ballston Spa for the week, I'm more than happy to sit down with Union's AD and listen to whatever he might have to say about things -- although, he'd need to be prepared to hear what I have to say on the other end of that.  Since you seem so keenly aware of his feelings, I'll leave it up to you to arrange such a meeting if you think it would help resolve issues between you and me and between me and him.  I'm available all day Tuesday and during the morning on Wednesday.  

However, to answer your question from earlier, I did have a communication with him in late September after he decided to, without asking me in private about the show, send a batch email to the Liberty League Commissioner calling his attention to "In the HuddLLe" before we even broadcast our first show.  I still am not sure why he felt the need to inform the Commissioner since it was not a Union College issue, but I respectfully responded that we were test marketing the show at first and fully intended to get the Commish on board after we had some hard numbers to present to him -- and I asked him to feel free to contact me in private next time he had any concerns of that variety.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 03:54:10 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:10 PM
An NCAA game is Postseason and matters more.......An ECAC game is an exhibition much the same way a preseason game is.....

Except, there's no such thing as a preseason game in college football -- so that analogy doesn't exactly hold water.

[Edit:  Oh, and actually, an ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 03:53:19 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2008, 01:57:05 PM
Agreed! AGAIN! 

Just landed home for Thanksgiving, so I wanna catch up in a single post -- First to pg04 on the above, I'm attempting to defend the honor of the 14 teams that participated in some strong matchups this past weekend,  and the teams that have played ECAC games with dignity and honor prior to this year.  My arguments against his manufactured concepts have nothing to do with my distaste for how he's carried himself this season with respect to Union.  You guys always seem to let him off the hook when I ask him to explain himself -- this is the point when he starts his finger pointing and ranting against me.  Just once, maybe, hold him accountable for some of his off-base statements.  Lord knows you guys always jump on my comments if you smell the least bit of odor coming from them!

-------------

pg, thanks for the kudos on the LLPP re: "In the HuddLLe" -- it's been a pleasure for both myself and RT to put that together this season.

-------------

K-Mack, it does ooze in sarcasm (ask me, I'm Italian -- sarcasm is next to the bottle of hair grease in my bathroom cabinet).  It would've been a lot different if you had said, "Things could be worse, though -- Lycoming would have the same path, except they have to visit a torn up Boswell Field."  That being said, I don't think it was worth trouncing you over, if that's what the parent has done.

-------------

U89...Since I'm back home in Ballston Spa for the week, I'm more than happy to sit down with Union's AD and listen to whatever he might have to say about things -- although, he'd need to be prepared to hear what I have to say on the other end of that.  Since you seem so keenly aware of his feelings, I'll leave it up to you to arrange such a meeting if you think it would help resolve issues between you and me and between me and him.  I'm available all day Tuesday and during the morning on Wednesday.  

However, to answer your question from earlier, I did have a communication with him in late September after he decided to, without asking me in private about the show, send a batch email to the Liberty League Commissioner calling his attention to "In the HuddLLe" before we even broadcast our first show.  I still am not sure why he felt the need to inform the Commissioner since it was not a Union College issue, but I respectfully responded that we were test marketing the show at first and fully intended to get the Commish on board after we had some hard numbers to present to him -- and I asked him to feel free to contact me in private next time he had any concerns of that variety.



I am again going to try to ignore you, but for the record I have never spoken to....or for the Union AD on any of these topics.

This is Frank once again putting words in my mouth.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:58:59 PM
I am again going to try to ignore you, but for the record I have never spoken to or for the Union AD on any of these topics.

This is Frank once again putting words in my mouth.

Well, it seems that you've stated that I haven't spoken with him about my concerns.  How else would you deduce that or suggest that, unless you're talking out of your donkey?

I've asked you to call me twice and asked you to go ahead and set up a meeting with the Union AD since you are suggesting it might help matters.  I'm thoroughly confused as to why you refuse to do any of the above.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 04:05:24 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 03:43:31 PM
When we have generated a rush we have had no containment and the QB runs for first downs.  This is a much more difficult matchup than PSU was.

Well I wish I could see tape of them, I noticed that their QB had the most carries on their team.  Are they some sort of hybrid option team?  I am not sure how I would game plan them until I saw what they ran.  I noticed their FB had a lot of carries and they had several FBs on the roster so I am wondering if they ran triple option.  Has anyone seen them?

We will know soon enough with some OJT as we did last weekend, I suppose.  We lost track of the QB on the option in the first few series but he got very little after that. 

I hope we can get after the QB...our secondary needs help.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:58:59 PM
I am again going to try to ignore you, but for the record I have never spoken to or for the Union AD on any of these topics.

This is Frank once again putting words in my mouth.

Well, it seems that you've stated that I haven't spoken with him about my concerns.  How else would you deduce that or suggest that, unless you're talking out of your donkey?

I've asked you to call me twice and asked you to go ahead and set up a meeting with the Union AD since you are suggesting it might help matters.  I'm thoroughly confused as to why you refuse to do any of the above.

OK guys...I am trying unsuccessfully to ignore both of you which is sad because I usually appreciate what you have to offer.  Why don't you take the tit for tat to email because it sounds personal at this point and, while I can't speak for anyone but myself, it has become quite tedious.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:15:39 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 24, 2008, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:58:59 PM
I am again going to try to ignore you, but for the record I have never spoken to or for the Union AD on any of these topics.

This is Frank once again putting words in my mouth.

Well, it seems that you've stated that I haven't spoken with him about my concerns.  How else would you deduce that or suggest that, unless you're talking out of your donkey?

I've asked you to call me twice and asked you to go ahead and set up a meeting with the Union AD since you are suggesting it might help matters.  I'm thoroughly confused as to why you refuse to do any of the above.

OK guys...I am trying unsuccessfully to ignore both of you which is sad because I usually appreciate what you have to offer.  Why don't you take the tit for tat to email because it sounds personal at this point and, while I can't speak for anyone but myself, it has become quite tedious.

I'M TRYING.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 24, 2008, 02:55:17 PM
OK, real reason I stopped by.

Was any Hobart or LL fan particularly put off by this?:

QuoteToughest path to Salem
Hobart hasn't gotten enough attention for what it's done this season, and being mentioned here isn't really for the right reason either. Should the Statesmen get past three-loss Lycoming at home, they would travel to Mount Union. Then even with a stunning upset, they could still have to get through Ithaca or Cortland State and the North Central Bracket champion for a Stagg Bowl appearance. So, yeah, enjoy that home game.

I didn't think it was bad, especially taken as a whole, but there's a Hobart parent who vehemently disagrees. Put off mostly by the last line.

It's to the point where I haven't opened his latest reply, because I know me, and I'm not good at letting someone else have the last word, so if I read it, it'll never end.

I don't really have a problem with it. I think parents need to view the site, especially the message boards with both eyes open and realize they are going to read something somewhere that bothers them. Honestly if my son were playing I would take four years off from the boards and I am addicted! In some ways it is true and if I am being honest with myself I could see myself making that comment about another team. Let's just hope Bart can go to alliance and give the Raiders a game! Got tons and tons of respect for that program!

Let's Go Bart!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 04:18:10 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:10 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.


Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.



82, I wasn't taking a shot at the Fisher program when I questioned playing 2nd stringers.  A lot of people have stated all the positives an ECAC victory can do for a program......My question is, if there is that much to gain, why risk losing the game by not putting your best players out there?

I would guess that the SJF staff was looking at the game as a fun experience for the players....nothing wrong with that.  On the flipside, a backup would not have seen the field if this were an NCAA game unless Fisher were up by 35 in the 4th.

An NCAA game is Postseason and matters more.......An ECAC game is an exhibition much the same way a preseason game is.....

I hear ya...its just that you seem to be foreclosing the possibility that the game (an ECAC game) could could represent something more in the middle.  There is no doubt that the game should be fun without as much postseason hardware at stake, so to speak.  However, I feel safe 'betting' that SJF's staff and players were playing to win and were probably pretty confident that the game could be won with the way they went about substituting players...and they turned out to be right. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:58:59 PM
I am again going to try to ignore you, but for the record I have never spoken to or for the Union AD on any of these topics.

This is Frank once again putting words in my mouth.

Well, it seems that you've stated that I haven't spoken with him about my concerns.  How else would you deduce that or suggest that, unless you're talking out of your donkey?

I've asked you to call me twice and asked you to go ahead and set up a meeting with the Union AD since you are suggesting it might help matters.  I'm thoroughly confused as to why you refuse to do any of the above.

Let's go the three of us and meet. I would love to ask questions and recieve answers from the AD. I'll bring a container of my frozen sauce and home made meatballs and SAUSAGE! Let's hang for the holidays boys and have a good old fashioned medeation with food and stuff! You guys are both seemingly to cool to let this go I just hope you guys can get along again. I think deep down you both care so much for the program and really want what is best for it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

Lew you need some type of award for funniest, craziest, and maybe mean pics ever. I just snarfed my decalf tea seeing that post. I remember watching that dude and my wife and I were both like "I don't care how smart he is we kind of feel bad for him." Hopefully he made some good loot on that show for his smarts, can't remember specifics.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 04:29:21 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:10 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.


Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.



......My question is, if there is that much to gain, why risk losing the game by not putting your best players out there?


good question...except I do not believe anyone was implying that there was some objective thing to gain from the ECAC game...other than the obvious...to win.  You cant gain anything else...there is no next game.  This game is the Seniors last game and luckily with it comes some hardware.  Its kinda like a bonus game, not a consolation game.  Especially if you lost your last game, especially in heartbreak fashion the way SJF did to AU the previous week.

My question to you is:  you are not serious that you would rather lose NCAA 1st round than win an ECAC game?  I agree that I would rather take my shot at winning the NCAA game even if i knew that the ECAC was a lock win, but how could you say that as a Football Senior (for example) that you rather end your career with a loss instead of a win?  Again, I wish some SJF seniors and IC seniors could chime in...this 'moral dilemma' is fresh and front and center for them right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:30:00 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

Lew you need some type of award for funniest, craziest, and maybe mean pics ever. I just snarfed my decalf tea seeing that post. I remember watching that dude and my wife and I were both like "I don't care how smart he is we kind of feel bad for him." Hopefully he made some good loot on that show for his smarts, can't remember specifics.
Eddie is me, 'Gro, and PC's boy.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:30:15 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

He only won $50k on Millionaire, though -- I think I could reach that level, too.  Especially if 'gro were my Phone-a-Friend...

FR:  "'gro, OK, here's the question:  What color is curry in its purest form?  A) Red, B) Brown, C) Yellow or D) Purple?"

'gro:  "C'mon, Frank, it's all about that purple drank!"

FR:  "You da man, 'gro, I knew you'd know! -- Meredith, I say D) Purple!"

Meredith:  "Ummm... Here's your CapitalOne Check for $0, Frank."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:30:15 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

He only won $50k on Millionaire, though -- I think I could reach that level, too.  Especially if 'gro were my Phone-a-Friend...

FR:  "'gro, OK, here's the question:  What color is curry in its purest form?  A) Red, B) Brown, C) Yellow or D) Purple?"

'gro:  "C'mon, Frank, it's all about that purple drank!"

FR:  "You da man, 'gro, I knew you'd know! -- Meredith, I say D) Purple!"

Meredith:  "Ummm... Here's your CapitalOne Check for $0, Frank."

EDDIE...EDDIE...EDDIE!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 04:29:21 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 03:47:10 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 12:05:07 PM
I know there's been a lot of discussion about the playing of everyone by St. John Fisher. With SJF traveling 10 hours to the game and having to pick up its own tab (unlike an NCAA game, where the NCAA pays the travel expenses for 52 people and 10 coaches/support staff), I can see why SJF might've chosen to take this route. I would have to think the travel roster was somewhere in the 52-man range the NCAA provides, so it's not like they were playing 100 kids.


Oh, I totally understand your point.  I am also not saying that the Fisher staff necessarily did the wrong thing by playing 2nd stringers.  My only point is that there is no way the playing time would have been sliced up this way if it were a 'true' Postseason game.



......My question is, if there is that much to gain, why risk losing the game by not putting your best players out there?


good question...except I do not believe anyone was implying that there was some objective thing to gain from the ECAC game...other than the obvious...to win.  You cant gain anything else...there is no next game.  This game is the Seniors last game and luckily with it comes some hardware.  Its kinda like a bonus game, not a consulation game.  Especially if you lost your last game, especially in heartbreak fashion the way SJF did to AU the previous week.

My question to you is:  you are not serious that you would rather lose NCAA 1st round than win an ECAC game?  I agree that I would rather take my shot at winning the NCAA game even if i knew that the ECAC was a lock win, but how could you say that as a Football Senior (for example) that you rather end your career with a loss instead of a win?  Again, I wish some SJF seniors and IC seniors could chime in...this 'moral dilemma' is fresh and fron and center for them right now.


82, from previous conversations, many others have said that an ECAC game will improve recruiting, set the team up for greater success the following year, etc.  It depends on the situation, but I'm not sure I buy those ideas.

In regard to your final point....Yes, no question about it, I would rather lose an NCAA game than win an ECAC game.  Way back when we wore leather helmets, Union lost consecutive NCAA games to Ithaca....both in OT....both in Schenectady.  I wouldn't change those years or experiences for the world.  Losing sucks, but lots of very successful seasons end in NCAA losses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:40:38 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

Oh, and by the way...

You never answered my question from the first post you're quoting ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 04:39:25 PM
Losing sucks, but lots of very successful seasons end in NCAA losses.

And some end in ECAC victories, too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 04:42:08 PM
Hobart has quietly been the most consistent program in the East for, what, 5-6 years now?  They never seem to shine this time of year, but can they muster something up to test MUC?  Do they have a bruising running game to control the clock?  Is there Defense fast....need to get to the edge in a hurry against Kmic...he loves to bounce it outside and can break some tackles like I have never seen.  Is Hobart a good tackling team? 

IF, the LB's can scrape and get to outside, without overpursuing, and without getting sealed off or 'washed' out they can force Kmic back to the traffic inside for help.  Micheli is an animal too! 

How is the kicking game for 'Bart?  I hope you guys can go out to Alliance and make a good showing. Tackle Kmic, before he scores, score more pts than them....its Science!

Good luck 'Bart
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 24, 2008, 04:55:30 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 23, 2008, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: Btown999 on November 23, 2008, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2008, 07:02:28 PM
Each of the other No. 7 seed has won playoff games with quarterbacks other than their current ones.

I guess you didn't read the post I was responding to, then. Mel said Curry is good and will be good. I don't think there are facts in evidence to suggest the latter, only the former. And that's why I note that Curry's only playoff wins are with the current quarterback, who is a senior.

You make it out to be an unsolicited shot at Curry, when in fact, I was called out by name and a claim was made that has dubious support. I called that assertion into question.

Are you following now?

Pat,

Yeah I am with you now.  I hope you will understand that my request for a re-evaluation of the NEFC comes from frustration (not with you).  As I said in my earlier post you're the big dog so you get the heat.  For that you have my appreciation and if I offened you my apologies. 

We're hopefully cool now?  Peace.


Pat's a good dude ...took me a while to understand this...but he is.....  You are by FAR the most knowledgable NEFC guy here.....Keep posting and don't get discouraged....we need more guys like you.

PS - Again we will call you a clown and an assmonkey, but you can call us the same


U89,

Thanks for the kind words.  I'll be around, and most times not sound like an assmonkey or clown.  But you know everyone slips up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2008, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 04:40:38 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

Oh, and by the way...

You never answered my question from the first post you're quoting ;)

No need to waste my time.  I won't win the argument anyway against Captain INTELLECTUAL MAN!!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.d.com.com%2Fi%2Flumiere%2F2005%2F10%2F31%2F7526-7526-20051031_161855-320x240.jpg&hash=de0269fce3c6997ffac3852bd697984c6966b3a6)
Captain Intellectual Man FR, studying for his next comeback.  So far, he has 'I know you are, but what am I?'
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

Lew you need some type of award for funniest, craziest, and maybe mean pics ever. I just snarfed my decalf tea seeing that post. I remember watching that dude and my wife and I were both like "I don't care how smart he is we kind of feel bad for him." Hopefully he made some good loot on that show for his smarts, can't remember specifics.

whoa whoa hold on a second here.........did you say "decaf tea"?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 06:30:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....

OK, how about predictions for the Cortland game?  I will pick the Dragon's to win 44-21.  I think Curry will show some flashes but struggle to stop the Cortland offense and I have a strong feeling that there will be some game changing special forces play out of the Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.

He's deciding on what type of Curry book I should write!  What were the three choices? Coloring? Pop-UP? and? 

I think the coloring will involve purple characters like Barney and the Ithaca teletubby. 

The pop-up will most likely revolve around Coach Welch's two punts from the 30. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.

Why don't you sit the next couple plays out champ?  Stop talking for awhile ok?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 06:33:40 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 24, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2008, 04:22:05 PM
'It's an anology, not a hypothetical.'

'An ECAC game is played, literally, POST SEASON.  It's a postseason game by definition.'

My Dad can beat up your Dad.

Jesus Christ!!!!  Someone spare me!!!!  HOW ARE YOU SOOO DAMN SMART!!!  JUST SHUTUP PLEASE!!!  

One man you are NOT smarter than...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fbridgeguys%2FBP%2FG3%2FTimanusEddie1.jpg&hash=42e43d454af467f46694c8179aeb9bdd75ead5c6)

I'll take blind Eddie over FR in a battle of wits any day.

Lew you need some type of award for funniest, craziest, and maybe mean pics ever. I just snarfed my decalf tea seeing that post. I remember watching that dude and my wife and I were both like "I don't care how smart he is we kind of feel bad for him." Hopefully he made some good loot on that show for his smarts, can't remember specifics.

whoa whoa hold on a second here.........did you say "decaf tea"?

Didn't think you'd pick that one up! Nice Utah!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:34:10 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.

He's deciding on what type of Curry book I should write!  What were the three choices? Coloring? Pop-UP? and? 

I think the coloring will involve purple characters like Barney and the Ithaca teletubby. 

The pop-up will most likely revolve around Coach Welch's two punts from the 30. 


Good 1......+1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:39:11 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.

Why don't you sit the next couple plays out champ?  Stop talking for awhile ok?


Ok, I will.....let's hear some of those pearls you are famous for.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 24, 2008, 06:40:14 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 24, 2008, 04:42:08 PM
Hobart has quietly been the most consistent program in the East for, what, 5-6 years now?  They never seem to shine this time of year, but can they muster something up to test MUC?  Do they have a bruising running game to control the clock?  Is there Defense fast....need to get to the edge in a hurry against Kmic...he loves to bounce it outside and can break some tackles like I have never seen.  Is Hobart a good tackling team? 

IF, the LB's can scrape and get to outside, without overpursuing, and without getting sealed off or 'washed' out they can force Kmic back to the traffic inside for help.  Micheli is an animal too! 

How is the kicking game for 'Bart?  I hope you guys can go out to Alliance and make a good showing. Tackle Kmic, before he scores, score more pts than them....its Science!

Good luck 'Bart

Yep.  Very quietly.  

7 NCAA playoff appearances in 9 years, including 5 consecutive from 2004 to present.  72-21 since 2000 (77+% win percentage).  Haven't lost more than one league game dating back to 2002.

Bart has a lot of great players - mostly on defense - but will probably struggle (just like everyone else) against MUC.  TGP would like to hope otherwise, but the Raiders are at a completely different level altogether.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 06:40:28 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:39:11 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 24, 2008, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.

Why don't you sit the next couple plays out champ?  Stop talking for awhile ok?


Ok, I will.....let's hear some of those pearls you are famous for.....

Jeez, another missed "Anchorman" reference!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2008, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:34:10 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 24, 2008, 06:26:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 24, 2008, 06:23:14 PM
Begging everyone to get back to actual football talk.....just got on for the first time in two days and wanted to catch up on the last 5 pages....i now want that part of my life back....


There is a Cortland State joke in there somewhere, but Utah is the expert, so I'll let him handle this one.

He's deciding on what type of Curry book I should write!  What were the three choices? Coloring? Pop-UP? and? 

I think the coloring will involve purple characters like Barney and the Ithaca teletubby. 

The pop-up will most likely revolve around Coach Welch's two punts from the 30. 


Good 1......+1

Dont forget the Sci-Fi one......

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fantasticfiction.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fn30%2Fn151788.jpg&hash=75f76c6cfcec0ed7615c8230c306e418cce11b15)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 25, 2008, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: TGP on November 24, 2008, 03:24:41 PM
TGP responded to this on the ATN, but the reality is, if Cortland took care of business in the first place we wouldn't be having this discussion.


I'm no longer convinced this is true TGP.  I get the impression the NCAA's intention is to set the stage for the 4 best teams reaching the semifinals.  Until/unless someone in the East upends MUC, my guess is they will keep headlining this bracket even if there are undefeated teams here.  Of course they may jazz things up by sending in a potentially undefeated Wesley, W&J, etc down the line. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2008, 02:12:42 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 25, 2008, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: TGP on November 24, 2008, 03:24:41 PM
TGP responded to this on the ATN, but the reality is, if Cortland took care of business in the first place we wouldn't be having this discussion.


I'm no longer convinced this is true TGP.  I get the impression the NCAA's intention is to set the stage for the 4 best teams reaching the semifinals.  Until/unless someone in the East upends MUC, my guess is they will keep headlining this bracket even if there are undefeated teams here.  Of course they may jazz things up by sending in a potentially undefeated Wesley, W&J, etc down the line. 

Respectfully,  I think that 10-0 Cortland earns the 4th spot!   :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 25, 2008, 08:42:22 AM
I agree with Ralph.  A 10-0 Cortland State would have gotten the 4th seed ahead of North Central.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 25, 2008, 10:38:46 AM
RE:  Purple Drink

While on Spring Break in Daytona (1992) my Soph. year in College we were running low on funds so we pooled our money and bought a Gallon of some Cheap Gin and mixed it with Grape Juice.

We named it the Purple Scrotum.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 25, 2008, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 25, 2008, 10:38:46 AM
RE:  Purple Drink

While on Spring Break in Daytona (1992) my Soph. year in College we were running low on funds so we pooled our money and bought a Gallon of some Cheap Gin and mixed it with Grape Juice.

We named it the Purple Scrotum.

In the Navy we used to mix purple bug juice with our own brand of shine.  We called it Purple Jesus.  Not too sure which was worse, the home brew or the bug juice.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 25, 2008, 12:17:42 PM
Wierd that two years in a row Curry faces a team in the second round that lost to the team that they beat in the first round....

Will the results change from last year?

Im thinking not, Curry will put up a fight though!

38-18 Cortland
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 25, 2008, 03:09:07 PM
Upstate,
I like your logic.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 25, 2008, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 25, 2008, 03:09:07 PM
Upstate,
I like your logic.

The CEC will eventually outmuscle DSB, DSB will come out blazing trying to attack the CEC secondary.  Its up to the DL of the CEC to take over the game.  I doubt DSB will be able to stop the CEC offense on an artificial style turf unlike last week when IC's own field, i think, did them in against DSB. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 25, 2008, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 25, 2008, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 25, 2008, 03:09:07 PM
Upstate,
I like your logic.

The CEC will eventually outmuscle DSB, DSB will come out blazing trying to attack the CEC secondary.  Its up to the DL of the CEC to take over the game.  I doubt DSB will be able to stop the CEC offense on an artificial style turf unlike last week when IC's own field, i think, did them in against DSB. 

He was my C.O. in NAM. CIA listed him as M.I.A. but the V.A. ID'd him and so we put out an APB.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 25, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
By the way if anybody truly knows what quote that is from without just **looking it up online, I will give you karma for liiiiiiife. 



**In order to qualify for the gratuitous and extreme karma dap you will receive from me you must first pass a quiz I give of the movie to verify you actually watched that beautiful film.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 25, 2008, 04:00:46 PM
posted my Bart-MUC preview analysis on the LL board (2238) if anyone's interested.

happy thanksgiving to all!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 25, 2008, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 25, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
By the way if anybody truly knows what quote that is from without just **looking it up online, I will give you karma for liiiiiiife. 



**In order to qualify for the gratuitous and extreme karma dap you will receive from me you must first pass a quiz I give of the movie to verify you actually watched that beautiful film.

I've been called it many times...

Loaded Weapon 1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 25, 2008, 06:44:03 PM
Are either of these games going to be online to watch? (MUC/Hobart and Cortland/Curry)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 25, 2008, 06:54:24 PM
I haven't heard about cortland webcast.  they are on break for the holiday so may not be webcast.   I am pretty sure that it will be on streaming audio at:  http://www.wxhc.com
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 25, 2008, 06:59:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 25, 2008, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 25, 2008, 03:49:20 PM
By the way if anybody truly knows what quote that is from without just **looking it up online, I will give you karma for liiiiiiife. 



**In order to qualify for the gratuitous and extreme karma dap you will receive from me you must first pass a quiz I give of the movie to verify you actually watched that beautiful film.

I've been called it many times...

Loaded Weapon 1

Frank...very good!  I will PM you the quiz later.  If I ultimately decide you have actually watched the movie, a plethora of +k will fall over you.  I will make it rain Pacman Jones style. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 25, 2008, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 25, 2008, 06:44:03 PM
Are either of these games going to be online to watch? (MUC/Hobart and Cortland/Curry)


No video at Mount, but a link to the the audio can be found here:

http://www.mtunionfootball.com/main.htm
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 25, 2008, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 25, 2008, 06:54:24 PM
I haven't heard about cortland webcast.  they are on break for the holiday so may not be webcast.   I am pretty sure that it will be on streaming audio at:  http://www.wxhc.com

Señor RT and I will be doing the broadcast for D3Football.com and NCAA.com Saturday for the Curry/Cortland game.  Check the front page for the relevant links.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on November 25, 2008, 08:59:22 PM
Hey--if I'm not on here for the next couple of days--Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours--safe travels to all.  I'd love to meet some of the Hobart fans before the game.  PM me and we can try to set something up.  I offered last week to trade a t-shirt or hat with any opposing fan--the offer still stands--MUC gear for HOBART gear.  I just try to collect stuff from DIII teams--so far CNU, Bridgewater, UWW, Wooster, Oberlin, Trinity,.....

Here's hoping for a great weekend of football!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: FranElia on November 26, 2008, 12:03:31 AM
To confirm - no video for the Cortland-Curry game due to the fact that our students are away on Thanksgiving break. Audio of the game will be available through three different broadcasts -- Cortland radio station WXHC (http://www.wxhc.com), Curry radio station WMLN (http://www.curry.edu/Student+Life/Curry+Radio) and, as Frank mentioned, a D3football.com broadcast.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: radiomike on November 26, 2008, 10:46:57 AM
There should be live audio of Hobart/MUC at http://www.weos.org
Ted Baker will be calling the game
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 27, 2008, 12:05:05 AM
On Turkey Day break but still thinking of D3Football
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 27, 2008, 03:33:41 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 24, 2008, 03:53:19 PM
K-Mack, it does ooze in sarcasm (ask me, I'm Italian -- sarcasm is next to the bottle of hair grease in my bathroom cabinet).  It would've been a lot different if you had said, "Things could be worse, though -- Lycoming would have the same path, except they have to visit a torn up Boswell Field."  That being said, I don't think it was worth trouncing you over, if that's what the parent has done.

Oh, I mean it's definitely a smart remark, but taken alone I didn't think it was so much slandering the Hobart program as much as it was reminding how monumental a task winning in Alliance is, and taken with the rest of it, I didn't agree that it disrespected Hobart much at all, given that the paragraph starts with "Hobart hasn't received enough attention for what it's accomplished ... "

Anyway, I'm way over it, just replying to you since I just saw this now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 27, 2008, 03:35:57 AM
Was definitely hoping for some live video from somewhere since I can't travel this week.

boooooooooo!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on November 27, 2008, 04:56:37 AM
Happy Thanksgiving to all D-III posters, teams, alumni, fans and parents and especially the faithful Warrior fan-base.

Turkey day in Japan is not observed and if you can get the bird - which is doubtful - it comes with a side order of gohan - rice - not stuffing or mashed potatoes.

Nonetheless, I am grateful to be an American, a son, husband, father and brother.  We have a flawed but wonderful nation that continues to be an icon for the rest of the world.  During the recent campaign the eyes of the international scene were upon us.

It is my fervent hope and prayer that our next commander-in-chief, who will be my final authority this side of heaven, will lead us in a way that ensures the legacy of the last two centuries continues for our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Love your family, support the troops, pray for our nation and raise a drumstick in thanks to all you enjoy.  Most of the world is barefoot and hungry and spends their day searching for fire wood and potable water.  We have never truly had it fair in our land - thankfully.

Go Warriors!

ATB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Findtheball on November 27, 2008, 07:03:19 AM
Happy Thanksgiving All
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 29, 2008, 09:09:42 AM
Alliance Ohio forcast for today, Sunny, 42 with Purple Reign and a new All-Time DIII rushing leader.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 29, 2008, 11:40:10 AM
At 11:45am, Senor RT and I will be bringing you Curry @ Cortland (Round 2 NCAA Division III Playoff Game) live from the SUNY Cortland Stadium Complex -- go to http://d3football.com/audio for the direct link/embedded media player!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:22:46 PM
Not a big fan of MUC's and Wabash's live stats... they need to upgrade to ICS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 29, 2008, 12:28:22 PM
Hobart on the MUC 15.......let's go pumpkins!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 29, 2008, 12:34:02 PM
Holy Crap!  Mount union is punting!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 29, 2008, 12:28:22 PM
Hobart on the MUC 15.......let's go pumpkins!

the live stats crapped out... I guess they went for the FG and missed.  Hmmmm, I figured coach cragg would go for it even in the 1st half.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 29, 2008, 12:34:02 PM
Holy Crap!  Mount union is punting!!!

I hear the poster 70's raider is also the punter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 29, 2008, 12:37:15 PM
Let's go Hobart...Bring in your backup QB...Let's go Hobart...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 29, 2008, 01:03:51 PM
So far it looks like Cortland is making a little Curry Stew.  21-0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 29, 2008, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:22:46 PM
Not a big fan of MUC's and Wabash's live stats... they need to upgrade to ICS.

This is the first year using PrestoSports.  I haven't been too pleased with it this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 01:45:12 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 29, 2008, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:22:46 PM
Not a big fan of MUC's and Wabash's live stats... they need to upgrade to ICS.

This is the first year using PrestoSports.  I haven't been too pleased with it this year.

I think this is the second year ICS has had this version of livestats, it's good.

http://livestats.internetconsult.com/rpi/football/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 29, 2008, 01:46:11 PM
Touchdown Hobart
MUC 21
Hobart 7
4:58 3Q

We got a game!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 29, 2008, 01:51:56 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 01:45:12 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 29, 2008, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:22:46 PM
Not a big fan of MUC's and Wabash's live stats... they need to upgrade to ICS.

This is the first year using PrestoSports.  I haven't been too pleased with it this year.

I think this is the second year ICS has had this version of livestats, it's good.

http://livestats.internetconsult.com/rpi/football/

I like the look of LiveStats.

MTU answers, 28-7 and Kmic up to 183 yds.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 29, 2008, 02:14:15 PM
42-0 Cortland State!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Btown999 on November 29, 2008, 02:31:56 PM
Congratulations to Cortland State.  What an impressive and total victory.  Best of luck to all the players and coaches and I'll be rooting for you against MUC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 29, 2008, 04:16:23 PM
Nice effort today by Hobart...

They made the OSU JV  work for their scores with their defensive effort...

OSU's JV had to execute to beat Hobart today and anytime you make them work for it its a good day, too bad the Hobart offense couldnt get it going...

Next up for the OSU JV Team is the Chemically Enhanced Cavemen of Cortland...

If the CEC can get it going on offense it should be a good game, I like the CEC run defense to put up a good fight vs the OSU JV Team (in no way am I saying they are going to shut down Kmic)...

Come out fighting CEC and make those JR Buckeyes work for it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 29, 2008, 04:41:48 PM
Quote from: 'gro on November 29, 2008, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 29, 2008, 12:34:02 PM
Holy Crap!  Mount union is punting!!!

I hear the poster 70's raider is also the punter.

Actually 2nd string 42 years ago. I still hold my high school record for the shortest (negative yards) punt.

Nothing but great things to say about Hobart as a team and their fans. A strong, focused, well disiplined team and friendly supportive fans/parents. Be proud Hobart. It was a great game to the end. Kudos to Coach Kehres for not pushing in another score.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on November 29, 2008, 08:41:56 PM
I would like to add my congratulations to Hobart--great game today--I loved the many different looks on the punts.  Kept MUC on their toes.  I would have liked to have seen what you could do with all of your players healthy.  Hope to see a home and away in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 29, 2008, 10:22:04 PM
Just got in after a long day of traveling.  Will have more to say tomorrow but for now good job Dragons and let's work hard this week.  Also, I told you guys to jump on the Dragon secondary bandwagon last week as it was lonely and now filling up.  You can scroll back and check for cstate's predictions on how many picks we would have. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 30, 2008, 03:43:12 PM
Earlier today I checked the NCAA page and it had the Stagg bracket listed for the upcoming quaterfinals.  They had Cortland listed as 12-1 v Mount Union 12-0.  Cortland is 11-1 while Mount is 12-0.   I will take this as an Omen to an upset.  I might have to make the 7.5 hour ride out to Aliance to see this happen. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 30, 2008, 07:14:14 PM
Make sure everyone tunes in tonight for the last episode of "In The Huddle"  on www.blogtalkradio.com/LLrecap  ....we'll be taking calls tonight. Show starts at 7:30pm....tune in!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 30, 2008, 07:53:24 PM
Working, or I'd check you guys out.

Can I be the first to go on record (actually already have recorded our podcast) to say that Cortland will physically be able to match up with Mount Union, but can only win if they play a really sharp game and tackle well on Kmic. (They should be able to get guys to him on a lot of plays)

(OK, nothing groundbreaking there)

East posters ever-so-wise:

What will be the East Region Final?
Mount Union vs. Curry   10 (19.2%)
Mount Union vs. Cortland   37 (71.2%)
Hobart vs.  Curry   3 (5.8%)
Hobart vs. Cortland   2 (3.8%)

Or was that just a layup?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 30, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Thats nice to know.  I have seen Cortland a few times this year, and know IC was the best team they played on the season at that point.....but that game was a disaster.  They appear to be peaking at the moment.  I would like to think that they could have beaten IC if they came to play as they clearly did not.  That beat down has provided a reality check and it looks like the Dragons are playing their best football.  Hopefully they can give MUC a decent game!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2008, 07:18:51 AM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 30, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Thats nice to know.  I have scene Cortland a few times this year, and know IC was the best team they played on the season at that point.....but that game was a disaster.  They appear to be peaking at the moment.  I would like to think that they could have beaten IC if they came to play as they clearly did not.  That beat down has provided a reality check and it looks like the Dragons are playing their best football.  Hopefully they can give MUC a decent game!

I brought this up on "In the HuddLLe" last night (http://blogtalkradio.com/LLRecap for the archive), but I'll bring it up again briefly here.

In calling the game on Saturday, my biggest concern about Cortland is their rush offense.  In order to beat Mount Union, you need a really good balance on offense that will allow you to potentially take an early lead on the Raiders -- and then hold them off for the remainder of the game.  When looking at the Cortland statistics, they represent Saturday's scenarios well -- Cortland yards were about 80/20 in favor of the passing game.  Curry's defensive line, while large and somewhat imposing, should not have had the success they had (especially early) in beating down the running game up the gut if Cortland's run offense was a real highlight.

This proves problematic -- we all focus on the offensive highlights of Mount Union, but their defense may be the true show-stopper this year, averaging just under 2 points per first half in points allowed this year.  The balanced offense with the ability to take a lead on Mount Union is how UW-Whitewater beat Mount Union in the Stagg Bowl last year (yes, Beaver was a force as running back -- but without balance with a decent passing attack, Beaver's performance would've been muted).  Hobart proved that a decent defense can quell the offensive attack of Mount Union for some period of time.  So, to me, it becomes a major question of the opponent's OFFENSE and their capabilities of breaking down the 800-pound gorilla the Raiders' defense has become.

While I appreciate the 42-0 win by Cortland this past weekend, I didn't see much that would make me believe that Cortland will be able to shock Mount Union unless the team plays a perfect game while the Raiders have an extremely off day.  However, this is why we play the games.  Good luck to both teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 01, 2008, 08:49:11 AM
Frank,
Cortland favored the pass against IC in the Cortaca game as well.  They avaeraged 7yds a rush but insisted on going back to the air.  They run a multiple offense rather than a multiple I....so rather than having a fullback somehwere on the field, they have other skill guys all over the field spreading you out. I know the coaches know what they are doing and with running the ball leass than 50% of the time, they have still broken their single season rushing records with Andrew Guiliano.  That kid is a horse and I am not sure if his success has come from teams preparing to play the pass and getting caught off guard, or Cortland just being able to pound it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on December 01, 2008, 11:13:17 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2008, 07:18:51 AM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 30, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Thats nice to know.  I have scene Cortland a few times this year, and know IC was the best team they played on the season at that point.....but that game was a disaster.  They appear to be peaking at the moment.  I would like to think that they could have beaten IC if they came to play as they clearly did not.  That beat down has provided a reality check and it looks like the Dragons are playing their best football.  Hopefully they can give MUC a decent game!

I brought this up on "In the HuddLLe" last night (http://blogtalkradio.com/LLRecap for the archive), but I'll bring it up again briefly here.

In calling the game on Saturday, my biggest concern about Cortland is their rush offense.  In order to beat Mount Union, you need a really good balance on offense that will allow you to potentially take an early lead on the Raiders -- and then hold them off for the remainder of the game.  When looking at the Cortland statistics, they represent Saturday's scenarios well -- Cortland yards were about 80/20 in favor of the passing game.  Curry's defensive line, while large and somewhat imposing, should not have had the success they had (especially early) in beating down the running game up the gut if Cortland's run offense was a real highlight.

This proves problematic -- we all focus on the offensive highlights of Mount Union, but their defense may be the true show-stopper this year, averaging just under 2 points per first half in points allowed this year.  The balanced offense with the ability to take a lead on Mount Union is how UW-Whitewater beat Mount Union in the Stagg Bowl last year (yes, Beaver was a force as running back -- but without balance with a decent passing attack, Beaver's performance would've been muted).  Hobart proved that a decent defense can quell the offensive attack of Mount Union for some period of time.  So, to me, it becomes a major question of the opponent's OFFENSE and their capabilities of breaking down the 800-pound gorilla the Raiders' defense has become.

While I appreciate the 42-0 win by Cortland this past weekend, I didn't see much that would make me believe that Cortland will be able to shock Mount Union unless the team plays a perfect game while the Raiders have an extremely off day.  However, this is why we play the games.  Good luck to both teams.


The thing is, many feel that Cortland's strength on offense is the running game. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2008, 11:38:02 AM
I understand what offense Cortland runs based on my research before and after the game -- and by watching 60 minutes of it Saturday.  You guys read into my post something that wasn't there:

I said that the production on the pass was high -- as in an 80/20 pass yards to rush yards ratio.  I didn't say play selection was that lopsided.  That was closer to 50/50 -- if we throw out garbage time, it was likely 60/40 in favor of the pass.  That's a very important differential to examine when looking at a game like Saturday's game -- you would hope your ratios in play selection would be somewhat similar to the ratio for yardage, with a slight advantage to the run (since pass plays can go more minimal or zero yards more than 50 percent of the time, while rushes tend to gain yards more often than not).

My point is this:  how did Curry, the team that lost 42-0 Saturday, stop Cortland's run so well?  If CURRY can do that, then Mount Union probably could do that in their sleep.  I don't think Cortland's philosophy was to pass as much as they did in the first three quarters -- I think that became the determination after Curry snuffed the run.

If you care to, please respond to that central point I was trying to make earlier.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 01, 2008, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2008, 07:18:51 AM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 30, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Thats nice to know.  I have scene Cortland a few times this year, and know IC was the best team they played on the season at that point.....but that game was a disaster.  They appear to be peaking at the moment.  I would like to think that they could have beaten IC if they came to play as they clearly did not.  That beat down has provided a reality check and it looks like the Dragons are playing their best football.  Hopefully they can give MUC a decent game!

I brought this up on "In the HuddLLe" last night (http://blogtalkradio.com/LLRecap for the archive), but I'll bring it up again briefly here.

In calling the game on Saturday, my biggest concern about Cortland is their rush offense.  In order to beat Mount Union, you need a really good balance on offense that will allow you to potentially take an early lead on the Raiders -- and then hold them off for the remainder of the game.  When looking at the Cortland statistics, they represent Saturday's scenarios well -- Cortland yards were about 80/20 in favor of the passing game.  Curry's defensive line, while large and somewhat imposing, should not have had the success they had (especially early) in beating down the running game up the gut if Cortland's run offense was a real highlight.

This proves problematic -- we all focus on the offensive highlights of Mount Union, but their defense may be the true show-stopper this year, averaging just under 2 points per first half in points allowed this year.  The balanced offense with the ability to take a lead on Mount Union is how UW-Whitewater beat Mount Union in the Stagg Bowl last year (yes, Beaver was a force as running back -- but without balance with a decent passing attack, Beaver's performance would've been muted).  Hobart proved that a decent defense can quell the offensive attack of Mount Union for some period of time.  So, to me, it becomes a major question of the opponent's OFFENSE and their capabilities of breaking down the 800-pound gorilla the Raiders' defense has become.

While I appreciate the 42-0 win by Cortland this past weekend, I didn't see much that would make me believe that Cortland will be able to shock Mount Union unless the team plays a perfect game while the Raiders have an extremely off day.  However, this is why we play the games.  Good luck to both teams.

Frank,

Nice job on the radio show last night.  It was very entertaining hearing about Mount Union from an outsider's position.  I agree with many things that were said in yesterday's discussion about the Hobart game. 

The Bart defense played very well, especially the secondary.  That was the first set of DB's that didn't get toasted by Cecil Shorts and company.  As a MUC broadcaster that has seen every game for the last 10+ years, I thought the pressure from the front 4 was decent to good, but the difference was making Micheli go thru his progressions and therefore giving time for the rush to get to him.  The reason I think the Hobart pass rush was only "decent to good" and not "great" is because this isn't a very good Mount offensive line and the amount of pressure was simliar to what Micheli saw from numerous OAC teams this season.  The difference is that he couldn't hit a wide open primary or secondary target without hesitation like he could in the regular season. 

I was especially impressed with the freshman Drake Woodard.  He played great against Cecil Shorts whereas Shorts made the entire OAC look absolutely silly.  That kid has a bright future.

ILB Hager was also very good.  A sure tackler that moved well sideline to sideline.  Overall the Hobart defense tackled well.  Which is why it took Kmic 37 carries to get his 200+ yards.  Poor tackling teams like a Marietta or Randolph-Macon got ripped for 200 with half the carries that he had against Hobart. 

I was more than impressed by the Hobart defense.  And I agree with the statement in your broadcast (not sure who made it) that the Hobart defense was a national title contending unit but that offense isn't anywhere close.

I thought the Hobart O-line was pretty good, Doyle displayed good decision making, but Hobart lacked the speed at WR or RB to make plays.  Based on what I saw Saturday, Hobart is a couple WR's and a stud RB away from competing at an elite level on offense.  There were quite a few times the Mount DB's were beat on the initial move, but had the closing speed to break up the pass.  If the Hobart WR's were faster, they might have hit some big plays or at least forced Mount to respect their ability to get deep and make them soften their coverage up.  After the first couple series, the MUC DB's got very agressive in run defense and jumping the short routes because they knew they couldn't get burnt deep.

To the Hobart team and fans, you have nothing to be ashamed of.  They played hard, played to win and made Mount work for everything they got.  Congrats on a great game and good luck next season.  Hope you again next December!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on December 01, 2008, 11:49:49 AM
Hopefully the raiders keep looking east for their non conference games.  New York accepts the challenge.


except RPI
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
I think it comes down to taking what the defense gives you.  It seems like Curry wanted to focus more on stopping the run (as they run a base 4-4 anyway) and force Cortland to throw the ball.

I think the key to beating MUC is stopping them on offense.  Cortland is not going to rush the ball on this team.  Like frank said, you need some sort of balance but I think it is a lot easier to throw than pass against MUC.  It was last year anyway.
 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on December 01, 2008, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 01, 2008, 11:43:54 AM
I was more than impressed by the Hobart defense.  And I agree with the statement in your broadcast (not sure who made it) that the Hobart defense was a national title contending unit but that offense isn't anywhere close.

That was me coach.  Thanks and k+ for the additional feedback and props.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 01, 2008, 02:23:24 PM
Quote from: TGP on December 01, 2008, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 01, 2008, 11:43:54 AM
I was more than impressed by the Hobart defense.  And I agree with the statement in your broadcast (not sure who made it) that the Hobart defense was a national title contending unit but that offense isn't anywhere close.

That was me coach.  Thanks and k+ for the additional feedback and props.

Sorry I didn't realize it was you.  Excellent job with the ITH thing.  Very cool!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on December 01, 2008, 04:15:15 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 01, 2008, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2008, 07:18:51 AM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on November 30, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Thats nice to know.  I have scene Cortland a few times this year, and know IC was the best team they played on the season at that point.....but that game was a disaster.  They appear to be peaking at the moment.  I would like to think that they could have beaten IC if they came to play as they clearly did not.  That beat down has provided a reality check and it looks like the Dragons are playing their best football.  Hopefully they can give MUC a decent game!

I brought this up on "In the HuddLLe" last night (http://blogtalkradio.com/LLRecap for the archive), but I'll bring it up again briefly here.

In calling the game on Saturday, my biggest concern about Cortland is their rush offense.  In order to beat Mount Union, you need a really good balance on offense that will allow you to potentially take an early lead on the Raiders -- and then hold them off for the remainder of the game.  When looking at the Cortland statistics, they represent Saturday's scenarios well -- Cortland yards were about 80/20 in favor of the passing game.  Curry's defensive line, while large and somewhat imposing, should not have had the success they had (especially early) in beating down the running game up the gut if Cortland's run offense was a real highlight.

This proves problematic -- we all focus on the offensive highlights of Mount Union, but their defense may be the true show-stopper this year, averaging just under 2 points per first half in points allowed this year.  The balanced offense with the ability to take a lead on Mount Union is how UW-Whitewater beat Mount Union in the Stagg Bowl last year (yes, Beaver was a force as running back -- but without balance with a decent passing attack, Beaver's performance would've been muted).  Hobart proved that a decent defense can quell the offensive attack of Mount Union for some period of time.  So, to me, it becomes a major question of the opponent's OFFENSE and their capabilities of breaking down the 800-pound gorilla the Raiders' defense has become.

While I appreciate the 42-0 win by Cortland this past weekend, I didn't see much that would make me believe that Cortland will be able to shock Mount Union unless the team plays a perfect game while the Raiders have an extremely off day.  However, this is why we play the games.  Good luck to both teams.

Frank,

Nice job on the radio show last night.  It was very entertaining hearing about Mount Union from an outsider's position.  I agree with many things that were said in yesterday's discussion about the Hobart game. 

The Bart defense played very well, especially the secondary.  That was the first set of DB's that didn't get toasted by Cecil Shorts and company.  As a MUC broadcaster that has seen every game for the last 10+ years, I thought the pressure from the front 4 was decent to good, but the difference was making Micheli go thru his progressions and therefore giving time for the rush to get to him.  The reason I think the Hobart pass rush was only "decent to good" and not "great" is because this isn't a very good Mount offensive line and the amount of pressure was simliar to what Micheli saw from numerous OAC teams this season.  The difference is that he couldn't hit a wide open primary or secondary target without hesitation like he could in the regular season. 

I was especially impressed with the freshman Drake Woodard.  He played great against Cecil Shorts whereas Shorts made the entire OAC look absolutely silly.  That kid has a bright future.

ILB Hager was also very good.  A sure tackler that moved well sideline to sideline.  Overall the Hobart defense tackled well.  Which is why it took Kmic 37 carries to get his 200+ yards.  Poor tackling teams like a Marietta or Randolph-Macon got ripped for 200 with half the carries that he had against Hobart. 

I was more than impressed by the Hobart defense.  And I agree with the statement in your broadcast (not sure who made it) that the Hobart defense was a national title contending unit but that offense isn't anywhere close.

I thought the Hobart O-line was pretty good, Doyle displayed good decision making, but Hobart lacked the speed at WR or RB to make plays.  Based on what I saw Saturday, Hobart is a couple WR's and a stud RB away from competing at an elite level on offense.  There were quite a few times the Mount DB's were beat on the initial move, but had the closing speed to break up the pass.  If the Hobart WR's were faster, they might have hit some big plays or at least forced Mount to respect their ability to get deep and make them soften their coverage up.  After the first couple series, the MUC DB's got very agressive in run defense and jumping the short routes because they knew they couldn't get burnt deep.

To the Hobart team and fans, you have nothing to be ashamed of.  They played hard, played to win and made Mount work for everything they got.  Congrats on a great game and good luck next season.  Hope you again next December!


Hi Frank:  I think you make an important point but I think some of what you saw was the result of guiliano taking a cheap shot to his legs  away from the play. (personal foul was called)   He came up a little gimpy and saw limited time after that.   He is a very stong back with big play potential which we did not see Saturday... so rush ydg was down.  On the other hand...Miles could have thrown all day so we didn't really need guiliano...hence pass ydg was up and you saw the ratio that you did.   Historically we also tend to have a couple of big pass ydg plays per game which may skew the passing yardage a bit.  I think saturday was a bit of an anomaly with your ratio theory.   I think we generally try to achieve that 50/50 yardage ratio.  Season statistics may not bear that out but I think that is the result of a couple of big passing yardage games where we stuck with what was working.  I also think that the true 50/50 ratio is sometimes skewed when you have a scrambling QB who will pick up rush ydg.  Miles isn't going to give you many rush yards.  His mobility, or lack thereof, concerns me a little in this game.

Clearly though, to have a chance, we need guiliano healthy and need to establish some success running the football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on December 01, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
Posted this on the NJAC page but thought i would add it here in case more fans are following this thread:   
   
Re: New Jersey Athletic Conference
« Reply #5830 on: Today at 09:44:42 pm »    

Safe travels to all the Red Dragon faithful this weekend.  I have been trading hats/t-shirts with parents/fans for the past couple of years and would love to add a Red Dragon to my collection.  Anyone interested in a trade for something Purple Raider themed?

At this point my collection includes items from Bridgewater, UWW, Christopher Newport, Hampton Sydney, Heidelberg,...

I'd love to make a trade this weekend--and meet some of the Cortland faithful before, after, or during the game.  Contact me via email or PM if you are interested.

Good luck to all--and here's to an injury free game for both teams.

theaprof
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on December 01, 2008, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
I think it comes down to taking what the defense gives you.  It seems like Curry wanted to focus more on stopping the run (as they run a base 4-4 anyway) and force Cortland to throw the ball.

I think the key to beating MUC is stopping them on offense.  Cortland is not going to rush the ball on this team.  Like frank said, you need some sort of balance but I think it is a lot easier to throw than pass against MUC.  It was last year anyway.
 


$40,000 a year and the FDC couldn't even teach you the difference.  You guys must have spent all four years on the color of the grass, IC football jerseys, and footballs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 01, 2008, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
I think it comes down to taking what the defense gives you.  It seems like Curry wanted to focus more on stopping the run (as they run a base 4-4 anyway) and force Cortland to throw the ball.

I think the key to beating MUC is stopping them on offense.  Cortland is not going to rush the ball on this team.  Like frank said, you need some sort of balance but I think it is a lot easier to throw than pass against MUC.  It was last year anyway.
 


$40,000 a year and the FDC couldn't even teach you the difference.  You guys must have spent all four years on the color of the grass, IC football jerseys, and footballs.

Dammit. 

But I still don't know what your last sentence means.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on December 02, 2008, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 01, 2008, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
I think it comes down to taking what the defense gives you.  It seems like Curry wanted to focus more on stopping the run (as they run a base 4-4 anyway) and force Cortland to throw the ball.

I think the key to beating MUC is stopping them on offense.  Cortland is not going to rush the ball on this team.  Like frank said, you need some sort of balance but I think it is a lot easier to throw than pass against MUC.  It was last year anyway.
 


$40,000 a year and the FDC couldn't even teach you the difference.  You guys must have spent all four years on the color of the grass, IC football jerseys, and footballs.

Dammit. 

But I still don't know what your last sentence means.

Meant you spent all fours years on the color system and never got to the difference between passing and running.  Guess it could have been worded better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 02, 2008, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 02, 2008, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 01, 2008, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
I think it comes down to taking what the defense gives you.  It seems like Curry wanted to focus more on stopping the run (as they run a base 4-4 anyway) and force Cortland to throw the ball.

I think the key to beating MUC is stopping them on offense.  Cortland is not going to rush the ball on this team.  Like frank said, you need some sort of balance but I think it is a lot easier to throw than pass against MUC.  It was last year anyway.
 


$40,000 a year and the FDC couldn't even teach you the difference.  You guys must have spent all four years on the color of the grass, IC football jerseys, and footballs.

Dammit. 

But I still don't know what your last sentence means.

Meant you spent all fours years on the color system and never got to the difference between passing and running.  Guess it could have been worded better.

I still don't know what your talking about.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.madeyoulaugh.com%2Ffunny_photos%2Ffinger_painting%2Ffinger_painting.jpg&hash=0240a3fb440be252a538cb8bf174e95757506433)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 03, 2008, 03:25:32 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2008, 11:38:02 AM
I understand what offense Cortland runs based on my research before and after the game -- and by watching 60 minutes of it Saturday.  You guys read into my post something that wasn't there:

I said that the production on the pass was high -- as in an 80/20 pass yards to rush yards ratio.  I didn't say play selection was that lopsided.  That was closer to 50/50 -- if we throw out garbage time, it was likely 60/40 in favor of the pass.  That's a very important differential to examine when looking at a game like Saturday's game -- you would hope your ratios in play selection would be somewhat similar to the ratio for yardage, with a slight advantage to the run (since pass plays can go more minimal or zero yards more than 50 percent of the time, while rushes tend to gain yards more often than not).

My point is this:  how did Curry, the team that lost 42-0 Saturday, stop Cortland's run so well?  If CURRY can do that, then Mount Union probably could do that in their sleep.  I don't think Cortland's philosophy was to pass as much as they did in the first three quarters -- I think that became the determination after Curry snuffed the run.

If you care to, please respond to that central point I was trying to make earlier.


It was pretty clear how Curry did it.  They kept overloading the box, daring Cortland to throw over them.  The only question I had once I saw them start to stack the box was whether or not their corners were talented enough to stay with Guaragno and Hajnos.  They couldn't stay with them, particularly Guaragno, and Miles kept torching them deep.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 03, 2008, 03:30:25 AM
Quote from: theaprof on December 01, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
Posted this on the NJAC page but thought i would add it here in case more fans are following this thread:   
   
Re: New Jersey Athletic Conference
« Reply #5830 on: Today at 09:44:42 pm »    

Safe travels to all the Red Dragon faithful this weekend.  I have been trading hats/t-shirts with parents/fans for the past couple of years and would love to add a Red Dragon to my collection.  Anyone interested in a trade for something Purple Raider themed?

At this point my collection includes items from Bridgewater, UWW, Christopher Newport, Hampton Sydney, Heidelberg,...

I'd love to make a trade this weekend--and meet some of the Cortland faithful before, after, or during the game.  Contact me via email or PM if you are interested.

Good luck to all--and here's to an injury free game for both teams.

theaprof


Sounds good Theaprof!  I'll be shooting the game from the sidelines for Cortlandfootball.com.  I'm the short guy with the Canon equipment...get my attention if you see me. 

Dan
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on December 03, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 03, 2008, 03:30:25 AM
Quote from: theaprof on December 01, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
Posted this on the NJAC page but thought i would add it here in case more fans are following this thread:   
   
Re: New Jersey Athletic Conference
« Reply #5830 on: Today at 09:44:42 pm »    

Safe travels to all the Red Dragon faithful this weekend.  I have been trading hats/t-shirts with parents/fans for the past couple of years and would love to add a Red Dragon to my collection.  Anyone interested in a trade for something Purple Raider themed?

At this point my collection includes items from Bridgewater, UWW, Christopher Newport, Hampton Sydney, Heidelberg,...

I'd love to make a trade this weekend--and meet some of the Cortland faithful before, after, or during the game.  Contact me via email or PM if you are interested.

Good luck to all--and here's to an injury free game for both teams.

theaprof


Sounds good Theaprof!  I'll be shooting the game from the sidelines for Cortlandfootball.com.  I'm the short guy with the Canon equipment...get my attention if you see me. 

Dan


I'll find you--I assume you will be on the Cortland side of the field??--Do you want a hat or a t-shirt?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 05, 2008, 03:14:02 AM
I move from sideline to sideline depending on the sun angle, and where I anticipate the action to be.  With everything being equal, I might be on the Cortland side of the field a little more often. 

A t-shirt sounds great.  I can trade you either a Cortland football hat (never worn, but its been bouncing around in my car trunk all season) or a medium Cortland lacrosse shirt (arguably our #1 sport along with baseball).  I have several Cortland hats, a few I wear when it rains but rarely otherwise.  At least 2 of them are new that I can think of.

We can try to meet up at half-time.  I'd love to discuss Mount Union football, as this will be my first chance to see them in person.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on December 05, 2008, 08:23:55 AM
I'll take a hat--nothing medium sized has fit me since I was 12!!  What size t-shirt do you want?

See you at the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 05, 2008, 04:14:46 PM
Now that 3 of the 4 number 1 seeds lost in Round 2 this year, is it fair to state that next season, there should be no talk of the East not getting its own number 1 seed?  It seems the majority opinion has been that only an undefeated East team would deserve a Number 1, otherwise, MUC gets imported.  Well Cortland is still playing at 11-1, and I think would be a favorite to go to the final 4 against anyone other than MUC, had MUC not been imported.  Anyone of the other 3 number 1's apparently did not deserve the number 1 anymore than a one loss Cortland team did, and that should be remembered next year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on December 05, 2008, 05:04:39 PM
Pat's playoff thought on Cortland so far.

Week 1: "running on fumes" Dragon win!

Week 2: predicted to lose to Curry (despite him bashing Curry 10 days earlier) Dragon Win!

Week 3: MU 52-17 Dragon???

Pat, if we pull the shocker off tomorrow can you please continue to pick against us?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2008, 05:18:50 PM
I didn't pick against Cortland in the first round, did I? In fact, I pretty well nailed it.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2008/11/21/triple-take-first-round-predictions/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on December 05, 2008, 06:20:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 05, 2008, 05:04:39 PM
Pat's playoff thought on Cortland so far.

Week 1: "running on fumes" Dragon win!

Week 2: predicted to lose to Curry (despite him bashing Curry 10 days earlier) Dragon Win!

Week 3: MU 52-17 Dragon???

Pat, if we pull the shocker off tomorrow can you please continue to pick against us?

Pat,

Can you explain where you see me saying that you picked against them in Week 1?  I quoted you as saying that they were "running on fumes".  I also said " can you please continue to pick against us?".  You picked against us in Week 2 (nice call) and Week 3, and if we win I was asking you to "continue" this streak.  I never said you picked against us in Week 1 so that makes this post
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2008, 05:18:50 PM
I didn't pick against Cortland in the first round, did I? In fact, I pretty well nailed it.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2008/11/21/triple-take-first-round-predictions/
silly.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 05, 2008, 09:56:29 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 05, 2008, 06:20:51 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 05, 2008, 05:04:39 PM
Pat's playoff thought on Cortland so far.

Week 1: "running on fumes" Dragon win!

Week 2: predicted to lose to Curry (despite him bashing Curry 10 days earlier) Dragon Win!

Week 3: MU 52-17 Dragon???

Pat, if we pull the shocker off tomorrow can you please continue to pick against us?

Pat,

Can you explain where you see me saying that you picked against them in Week 1?  I quoted you as saying that they were "running on fumes".  I also said " can you please continue to pick against us?".  You picked against us in Week 2 (nice call) and Week 3, and if we win I was asking you to "continue" this streak.  I never said you picked against us in Week 1 so that makes this post
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2008, 05:18:50 PM
I didn't pick against Cortland in the first round, did I? In fact, I pretty well nailed it.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2008/11/21/triple-take-first-round-predictions/
silly.

k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 05, 2008, 10:31:20 PM
Prediction:

Cortland  16
MUC         35

I would like to think that Cortland can tackle Kmic, create some timely turnovers in the Red Zone (no doubt MUC will move the ball), and get some good field position on special teams to shorten the field for its offense and win the win the game 28-24.....but my gosh, they have only lost 5 freakin games since 1996!!!

Good luck Dragons!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 05, 2008, 11:10:49 PM
Seeing how Buffalo has laid the hand down on Ball St tonight, I'd say anything can happen tomorrow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 06, 2008, 05:28:34 AM
That was amazing.  Buffalo has destroyed Syracuse in the recruiting battle...what a joke for S.U.  But great for Buffalo, and I hope they make waves in their bowl game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 06, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 06, 2008, 05:28:34 AM
That was amazing.  Buffalo has destroyed Syracuse in the recruiting battle...what a joke for S.U.  But great for Buffalo, and I hope they make waves in their bowl game.

Turner Gill is gonna get a big time job soon.  He's got Buffalo turned around.  I was surprised that he didn't get the Nebraska job.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 12:09:13 PM
Cortland drives right down the field and scores!

Maybe we have us a ballgame.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 12:16:15 PM
Mount answers immediately with a score of their own.  So far Cortland hasn't done a great job of tackling Kmic. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 12:21:11 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 12:16:15 PM
Mount answers immediately with a score of their own.  So far Cortland hasn't done a great job of tackling Kmic. 

Cortland punts on fourth and a foot... Cortland's not going to be able to compete in a track meet
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on December 06, 2008, 12:28:12 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 12:21:11 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 12:16:15 PM
Mount answers immediately with a score of their own.  So far Cortland hasn't done a great job of tackling Kmic. 

Cortland punts on fourth and a foot... Cortland's not going to be able to compete in a track meet

Yea I think they will learn from that call to be more aggressive.  They had them pinned on the 12 but MUC went right down the field.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 06, 2008, 12:29:31 PM
Mt Union kicked a Field Goal????  I thought that was illegal up there!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 12:42:15 PM
Wilk kicks a 19-yarder.. 13-7 MUC.

Cortland has to get some points on this drive. Something.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 12:42:31 PM
red zone D is holding strong.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 12:43:00 PM
Now TWO of these weird "field goal" things........what IS that ??? ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 12:43:43 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 12:42:31 PM
red zone D is holding strong.

Good field position for Cortland... 1-10 at the MUC 35 after a short kick into the wind and a good return...

EDIT: Fail for the Red Dragons... MUC ball after a sack/incompletion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 12:50:05 PM
I lost the feed when Cortland got to the MUC 30  >:(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on December 06, 2008, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 12:50:05 PM
I lost the feed when Cortland got to the MUC 30  >:(

Stopped on 4th down, now MUC has driven right back deep into Cortland territory.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 12:59:39 PM
WOW!  What an answer by Cortland.  This is definitely a ballgame!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:01:32 PM
2 long passes makes it 20-14 MUC with about 30 seconds left in the half...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:04:29 PM
Not to get too far off topic, but Army has Camo uniforms and helmets!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 06, 2008, 01:06:28 PM
Are the live stats working for anyone?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 01:06:41 PM
Good thing we decided there was "No point" in discussing how eastern teams could hang with MUC...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 06, 2008, 01:07:32 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:04:29 PM
Not to get too far off topic, but Army has Camo uniforms and helmets!

I like em.

Live stats were about 5 hours behind for me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Findtheball on December 06, 2008, 01:08:41 PM
 Is there a link I can go to. I just got home.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Findtheball on December 06, 2008, 01:10:35 PM
 sorry Corland Mt union (hook up)  Radio stream or web ?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 01:11:40 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 06, 2008, 01:06:28 PM
Are the live stats working for anyone?

No, froze up on me too LD. Listening to it via MUC audio online.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:12:18 PM
Noline,
http://www2.muc.edu/athletics/broadcasts/broadcast-center.aspx
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Findtheball on December 06, 2008, 01:13:39 PM
Thankyou
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 01:14:59 PM
Cortland... LET'S ROLL!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 01:16:08 PM
guys, what radio broadcast are you listening to - there are 2 options. The fm side isn't very good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 01:19:21 PM
Tags...listen to Ric & HSCoach on the AM station.  Much better than the college students.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 01:21:05 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 01:19:21 PM
Tags...listen to Ric & HSCoach on the AM station.  Much better than the college students.

Thanks, yes, this is much better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:22:39 PM
Lets keep the snow coming and slow Kmic down.  Maybe Christmas will come early for the Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 06, 2008, 01:23:30 PM
since the live stats suck, keep us posted!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:24:50 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:22:39 PM
Lets keep the snow coming and slow Kmic down.  Maybe Christmas will come early for the Dragons.

One can only hope.

Upstate: I'll keep people updated here who can't listen to it online...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:27:00 PM
we need come out with a stop or turnover to start the half....X77, those army unis are sick...i love the helmet and the motto on the back instead of the name
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:30:16 PM
Me, the wife, and baby had tix to the Army/Navy game but the seats were bad, and Army is worse.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:27:00 PM
we need come out with a stop or turnover to start the half....X77, those army unis are sick...i love the helmet and the motto on the back instead of the name

Depending on the situation, MUC has the choice to kickoff if they want to go back on defense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on December 06, 2008, 01:32:01 PM
MUC icing the Dragons with the extended halftime...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:33:00 PM
When I played semi pro for the OC Bulldogs, the EFL had a rule that the home team in the playoffs had to provide a playable site.  If not, the visitor got the W in a forfeited game if the game had to be cancelled or stopped.  The score did not matter.  This snow issues sounds like a real thorn as both teams are being iced.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on December 06, 2008, 01:34:08 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on December 06, 2008, 01:32:01 PM
MUC icing the Dragons with the extended halftime...

I think Cortland is in the locker room though and MUC is out on the sideline...from what the announcers on Cortland radio site said.  That could be an issue.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 01:34:40 PM
The teams...fans........refs....are ALL being iced today!

Mount's field is a nice field turf surface, but the snow is causing a problem.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:34:51 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:27:00 PM
we need come out with a stop or turnover to start the half....X77, those army unis are sick...i love the helmet and the motto on the back instead of the name

Depending on the situation, MUC has the choice to kickoff if they want to go back on defense.


They have to take the ball to start the half, only up 6, and the field conditions are getting worse by the min....and according to a friend at the game, its snowing like hell there
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:35:38 PM
Here we go!  Round 2.  Balls blows off the Tee.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 01:36:35 PM
Perfect conditions for an upset.  :-\
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 01:34:40 PM
The teams...fans........refs....are ALL being iced today!

Mount's field is a nice field turf surface, but the snow is causing a problem.

If MUC loses, the NCAA will probably make them play again in good weather so MUC has another shot...you know, it's all in the best interest of getting the 4 best teams out of the region, can't let something like weather stop that
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on December 06, 2008, 01:32:01 PM
MUC icing the Dragons with the extended halftime...
Good one!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on December 06, 2008, 01:39:48 PM
Need a stop, we havent even seen the MUC punter...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:41:38 PM
We know Kmic is nasty, but this guy is shredding a solid run defense like toilet paper.  Hold em to another FG.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:41:57 PM
It's time for this damn rubber band D to snap back!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:42:20 PM
MUC ball

1-10 Kmic for 4
2-6 Micheli incomplete to Shorts
3-6 Micheli complete for a first

1-10 Kmic up the middle for 9 (Kmic has 24-114 at this point)
2-1 Kmic left side for 7
1-10 Kmic pushed out of bounds to the right, another first down at the Cort 25
1-10 Kmic 22 yard in and out cut down to the Cortland 2

1-G at the Cortland 2: Kmic 1 yard (Kmic at 158 yards)
2-G at the 1: Kmic 1 yard TD run..
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:47:19 PM
Cortland ball: MUC up 26-14

1-10 at the Cort 32, incomplete pass over Hajnos' head
2-10 Giuliano a short 2 yard run... he only has 10 yards all day so far

MUC timeout (to be continued)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 01:48:15 PM
Kmic is a beast.

Won't get a sniff with the NFL, but a beast in DIII.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:49:23 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:47:19 PM
Cortland ball: MUC up 26-14

1-10 at the Cort 32, incomplete pass over Hajnos' head
2-10 Giuliano a short 2 yard run... he only has 10 yards all day so far

MUC timeout (to be continued)

3-8 incomplete pass by Miles
4-8 Cortland to punt:  Peterson punt, a 17-yard return for the MUC returner
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:50:16 PM
This is what we cant afford to have happen!! Must get a stop this drive to stay in the game
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on December 06, 2008, 01:51:52 PM
micheli 3rd down completion on that opening 2nd half drive could be a game changer.

but nice stop CState - first punt by MUC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:52:36 PM
HERE WE GO BOYS!!! SPECIAL FORCES NEEDS A HUGE PLAY.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:53:03 PM
1-10 MUC: Kmic gets 1 on first down
2-9 at the MUC 38: Micheli complete to Shorts for about 6
3-3 at the 44: Micheli rolling... only gets a yard on the run
4-2... MUC to punt!

MUC downs the ball at the Cortland 25
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:53:39 PM
Cortland to the MuC 35
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:54:06 PM
Big play for Cortland on first down... miles to guaragno down to MUC 33...

42 yard pass...

than giuliano -5 on the next play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:54:20 PM
77 which broadcast r u listening to, ur ahead of me
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:55:17 PM
We got the wind for a FG at least if we can gain a few.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:55:45 PM
http://secure.stretchinternet.com/live.php?user=muc&id=45932
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 01:56:30 PM
Thats the 3rd time we got close to the 30 and got squashed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:57:02 PM
Miles gets the pass batted back in his face... Cortland punts back in the end zone
MUC 1-and-10 at the 20.. 6 minutes left in the 3rd q.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:58:20 PM
3rd and 2...

1st down for MUC on a Micheli throw to the MUC 37
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 01:59:47 PM
Long pass from Micheli... gets called back by a holding penalty.

1st penalty of the day. 1-24 at the MUC 23 for Mt. Union
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 01:59:59 PM
we needed that
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:01:25 PM
Honestly, how many times can you say "with the wind".

Noted.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:01:38 PM
3rd and 10.   Got to hold them here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:02:19 PM
back to original LOS.. 3-10 at the MUC 37,

14 yard pass from Micheli for a first down..

God.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:02:37 PM
Tha one hurt - game over.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:02:46 PM
I could not imagine how good Cortland could have really been if they had a decent 2ndary.  They  make everybody look great.  Then again MUC is great.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:03:21 PM
Wish we had video feed.  :-[
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:03:21 PM
Wish we had video feed.  :-[

I agree, how do the cortland video crew not go to this game, and how does mt union not have any video
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:05:04 PM
why the hell, cant we get a 3rd down stop??? we need some pressure
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:05:17 PM
Kmic has 171 yards today..

3-6 for Cortland coming up...

ANOTHER first down reception... down to the Cortland 30


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:05:47 PM
Quote from: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:03:21 PM
Wish we had video feed.  :-[

I agree, how do the cortland video crew not go to this game, and how does mt union not have any video
Got me.  I'd pay a lot to watch it and I don't think I'm alone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 06, 2008, 02:06:19 PM
I did think MUC held a lot last year.  But the refs called them for it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:06:40 PM
i think its on direct tv but not till later tonight....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
Evidently Mt. Union is the only team playing in the tough conditions.

Why no mention about how it affects Cortland?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:06:40 PM
i think its on direct tv but not till later tonight....
I believe that's correct.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:09:54 PM
Would love to see how bad the snow truly is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
Evidently Mt. Union is the only team playing in the tough conditions.

Why no mention about how it affects Cortland?
You're listening to Ric & hscoach.  I think they both have honorary degrees from Mount Union! ;-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:12:46 PM
They get in here, it's pretty close to over...

2-G at the 2, Kmic walks in standing up... He's nasty. Flat out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:13:17 PM
77, according to calks, who is at the game..he said its bad there.....cold, windy, and snowy
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:13:30 PM
Arnold S as Major Dutch in Predator:  "If it bleeds , we can kill it."
XREDDRAGON77 : If it does not lose, can you beat it?  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:13:59 PM
3 score lead...dont look good
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on December 06, 2008, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
Evidently Mt. Union is the only team playing in the tough conditions.

Why no mention about how it affects Cortland?
You're listening to Ric & hscoach.  I think they both have honorary degrees from Mount Union! ;-)

They have repeatedly said that Cortland is hands down the best team MUC has faced all season.  

34-14 MUC after another Kmic TD
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:13:30 PM
How can you beat a team that can't lose?  This is insane.
Anybody can be beat,  but Larry Kehres does the best job at minimizing that risk.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:17:24 PM
whats with miles???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:13:30 PM
Arnold S as Major Dutch in Predator:  "If it bleeds , we can kill it."
XREDDRAGON77 : If it does not lose, can you beat it?  

+K for quoting Ahnold.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
The conditions have definitely forced my concern to become a reality today concerning the Cortland rushing attack.  Only 12 yards on the ground so far -- with or without bad conditions, you sort of know where you have to win the game against Mount Union.  It's unfortunate because I actually believe that better conditions might have allowed the Cortland Offense to present a better balance (although, the running game I think would've been somewhat muted either way).  Would Cortland have won under pristine conditions?  Probably not.  However, you hate to see the elements wipe away a chance to see the teams fight against each other without outside influences like snow.

Either way, it's been a great season for Cortland, and they should CERTAINLY be proud of their efforts all season -- it looked like they were beginning to run out of gas at the end of the season, but they re-upped their efforts and made a true statement that there might be a new power team at the top of the East Region for the foreseeable future.  Congratulations to the Red Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:18:45 PM
this cortland broadcast is flat out bad, these guys have no idea what they are talking about...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: TGP on December 06, 2008, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
Evidently Mt. Union is the only team playing in the tough conditions.

Why no mention about how it affects Cortland?
You're listening to Ric & hscoach.  I think they both have honorary degrees from Mount Union! ;-)

They have repeatedly said that Cortland is hands down the best team MUC has faced all season.  

34-14 MUC after another Kmic TD

I wish Cortland hadn't punted from the MUC 40 on that 4th and inches...yeah it was only the 1st quarter, but man, I just don't see how you could think your defense will be able to hold all day. Chances like that, you can't let them slip...bend but don't break defenses have a strange tendency to break when playing MUC...you have to assume you'll need 40 points minimum to hang with them
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
Either way, it's been a great season for Cortland, and they should CERTAINLY be proud of their efforts all season -- it looked like they were beginning to run out of gas at the end of the season, but they re-upped their efforts and made a true statement that there might be a new power team at the top of the East Region for the foreseeable future.  Congratulations to the Red Dragons.

Frank: I will play the bad cop role here for that statement... Cortland has 18 senior starters out of 22. Could be a tough year next year for the Red Dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic

Once again, the supposedly "weak" East region gives MUC their toughest game of the season....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:26:55 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
Either way, it's been a great season for Cortland, and they should CERTAINLY be proud of their efforts all season -- it looked like they were beginning to run out of gas at the end of the season, but they re-upped their efforts and made a true statement that there might be a new power team at the top of the East Region for the foreseeable future.  Congratulations to the Red Dragons.

Frank: I will play the bad cop role here for that statement... Cortland has 18 senior starters out of 22. Could be a tough year next year for the Red Dragons.

I still don't see them falling too far back next year, DC, having watched their second team play pretty well last week against Curry.  They have a lot of size and a lot of skill -- maybe they don't go 10-0, but 8-2 or 9-1 (and a certain chance for a Pool A or C bid) is a likelihood, I believe.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:27:53 PM
If I'm a MUC fan, I'm pissed Kmic is still in the game.

Why is he still in there getting hit? Ridiculous. If he gets hurt it changes your season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 06, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: TGP on December 06, 2008, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
Evidently Mt. Union is the only team playing in the tough conditions.

Why no mention about how it affects Cortland?
You're listening to Ric & hscoach.  I think they both have honorary degrees from Mount Union! ;-)

They have repeatedly said that Cortland is hands down the best team MUC has faced all season.  

34-14 MUC after another Kmic TD

I wish Cortland hadn't punted from the MUC 40 on that 4th and inches...yeah it was only the 1st quarter, but man, I just don't see how you could think your defense will be able to hold all day. Chances like that, you can't let them slip...bend but don't break defenses have a strange tendency to break when playing MUC...you have to assume you'll need 40 points minimum to hang with them


I can't agree more......Cortland also punted on 4th and 6 from the MUC 37 in the 3rd.....result was a touchback and gain of 17 yards.  You need to play soundly and take chances against a team like MUC.

None the less, a fantastic performance by Cortland and one that the entire East should be proud of!!!

Thanks to both Hobart and Cortland for representing the East extremely well vs. the best in D3 this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: xdragon58 on December 06, 2008, 02:29:33 PM
Hell of a run, made all us alum proud...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:26:55 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
Either way, it's been a great season for Cortland, and they should CERTAINLY be proud of their efforts all season -- it looked like they were beginning to run out of gas at the end of the season, but they re-upped their efforts and made a true statement that there might be a new power team at the top of the East Region for the foreseeable future.  Congratulations to the Red Dragons.

Frank: I will play the bad cop role here for that statement... Cortland has 18 senior starters out of 22. Could be a tough year next year for the Red Dragons.

I still don't see them falling too far back next year, DC, having watched their second team play pretty well last week against Curry.  They have a lot of size and a lot of skill -- maybe they don't go 10-0, but 8-2 or 9-1 (and a certain chance for a Pool A or C bid) is a likelihood, I believe.

I definitely hope they do well... strong East teams are essential.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 06, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:27:53 PM
If I'm a MUC fan, I'm pissed Kmic is still in the game.

Why is he still in there getting hit? Ridiculous. If he gets hurt it changes your season.

He cant break the record if he's not playing....

No other reason why he's in there when they're up by 20 with under 10 minutes to play...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:31:38 PM
Dew,
Last year was a relading year and went 8-3 with a solid ECAC win.  Things come ang go in cycles.  IC is the only team that has eluded Father Time in the EAST.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
Now let's discuss a statement game if I've ever seen one:

At halftime:

Washington & Jefferson  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor       49

I didn't think MHB was THIS strong when I saw them play a couple weeks ago.  I think they're gaining strength somehow as the playoffs continue.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:33:26 PM
Congratulations to Cortland State on an excellent year of football.  You guys should be proud.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:33:54 PM
Quote from: Union89 on December 06, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:20:23 PM
Quote from: TGP on December 06, 2008, 02:14:19 PM
Quote from: runyr on December 06, 2008, 02:10:51 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:08:49 PM
Evidently Mt. Union is the only team playing in the tough conditions.

Why no mention about how it affects Cortland?
You're listening to Ric & hscoach.  I think they both have honorary degrees from Mount Union! ;-)

They have repeatedly said that Cortland is hands down the best team MUC has faced all season.  

34-14 MUC after another Kmic TD

I wish Cortland hadn't punted from the MUC 40 on that 4th and inches...yeah it was only the 1st quarter, but man, I just don't see how you could think your defense will be able to hold all day. Chances like that, you can't let them slip...bend but don't break defenses have a strange tendency to break when playing MUC...you have to assume you'll need 40 points minimum to hang with them


I can't agree more......Cortland also punted on 4th and 6 from the MUC 37 in the 3rd.....result was a touchback and gain of 17 yards.  You need to play soundly and take chances against a team like MUC.

None the less, a fantastic performance by Cortland and one that the entire East should be proud of!!!

Thanks to both Hobart and Cortland for representing the East extremely well vs. the best in D3 this year.

Gotta say, even as an IC fan, I was really hoping for a Cortland upset, just to stick it to the NCAA...good on ya dragons...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2008, 02:39:55 PM
Congrats Cortland on a great season.  This X RED DRAGON is proud of your season and accomplishments.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:40:11 PM
So MUC moves on, UWW still alive in the other side of the bracket... Those two could face off for the fourth year in a row. Yikes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
Now let's discuss a statement game if I've ever seen one:

At halftime:

Washington & Jefferson  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor       49

I didn't think MHB was THIS strong when I saw them play a couple weeks ago.  I think they're gaining strength somehow as the playoffs continue.

Maybe the fact that that was probably the 13th time that HSU and UMHB have played in the last decade?

Both teams know the other so well that there are no surprises!


I also think that this is the way that W&J matches up with Texas teams (UMHB and HSU and Trinity) as the game has been played in the last decade.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 02:41:48 PM
Cortland was right there at the half, but couldn't keep responding in the second half.  That seems to be be Mount's forte.

Props to Cortland State on not messin' down their leg when coming to Alliance.  Scoring the first time they had the ball let Mount know they were in a game.

Congrats to Cortland for a good run.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
Now let's discuss a statement game if I've ever seen one:

At halftime:

Washington & Jefferson  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor       49

I didn't think MHB was THIS strong when I saw them play a couple weeks ago.  I think they're gaining strength somehow as the playoffs continue.

Maybe the fact that that was probably the 13th time that HSU and UMHB have played in the last decade?

Both teams know the other so well that there are no surprises!


I also think that this is the way that W&J matches up with Texas teams (UMHB and HSU and Trinity) as the game has been played in the last decade.

True, Ralph... But 49-7 at halftime is eye-catching, routine or not.  If they face UWW, I'd like to see that game in person... It'll be one of the best games of the season, IMHO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
Now let's discuss a statement game if I've ever seen one:

At halftime:

Washington & Jefferson  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor       49

I didn't think MHB was THIS strong when I saw them play a couple weeks ago.  I think they're gaining strength somehow as the playoffs continue.

Maybe the fact that that was probably the 13th time that HSU and UMHB have played in the last decade?

Both teams know the other so well that there are no surprises!


I also think that this is the way that W&J matches up with Texas teams (UMHB and HSU and Trinity) as the game has been played in the last decade.

True, Ralph... But 49-7 at halftime is eye-catching, routine or not.  If they face UWW, I'd like to see that game in person... It'll be one of the best games of the season, IMHO.
:D  It is probably just as easy for you to fly to Belton as anyone else...  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
Now let's discuss a statement game if I've ever seen one:

At halftime:

Washington & Jefferson  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor       49

I didn't think MHB was THIS strong when I saw them play a couple weeks ago.  I think they're gaining strength somehow as the playoffs continue.

Maybe the fact that that was probably the 13th time that HSU and UMHB have played in the last decade?

Both teams know the other so well that there are no surprises!


I also think that this is the way that W&J matches up with Texas teams (UMHB and HSU and Trinity) as the game has been played in the last decade.

True, Ralph... But 49-7 at halftime is eye-catching, routine or not.  If they face UWW, I'd like to see that game in person... It'll be one of the best games of the season, IMHO.
:D  It is probably just as easy for you to fly to Belton as anyone else...  ;)

Wartburg is having a lot to say about the matchup -- 20-17 UWW End of 3rd, Wartburg about to get the ball back in great field position.  Watch the video if you're interested in the game at all.  Nice video effort (for free) by UWW.  http://www.pennatlantic.com/main.php?tableName=event&fileName=results&recordId=&module=event-results&orderBy=&searchIt=yes&sport=0&month=0&day=01&year=2006&conferenceId=0&schoolId=76

[Edit:  UWW BLOCKS a potential-game-tying FG attempt by Wartburg -- ball bounces back to the 50 where UWW falls on it.  Wow, it proves you need some luck to go with the skill as defending national champs.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 02:32:47 PM
Now let's discuss a statement game if I've ever seen one:

At halftime:

Washington & Jefferson  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor       49

I didn't think MHB was THIS strong when I saw them play a couple weeks ago.  I think they're gaining strength somehow as the playoffs continue.

Maybe the fact that that was probably the 13th time that HSU and UMHB have played in the last decade?

Both teams know the other so well that there are no surprises!


I also think that this is the way that W&J matches up with Texas teams (UMHB and HSU and Trinity) as the game has been played in the last decade.

True, Ralph... But 49-7 at halftime is eye-catching, routine or not.  If they face UWW, I'd like to see that game in person... It'll be one of the best games of the season, IMHO.
:D  It is probably just as easy for you to fly to Belton as anyone else...  ;)

Wartburg is having a lot to say about the matchup -- 20-17 UWW End of 3rd, Wartburg about to get the ball back in great field position.  Watch the video if you're interested in the game at all.  Nice video effort (for free) by UWW.  http://www.pennatlantic.com/main.php?tableName=event&fileName=results&recordId=&module=event-results&orderBy=&searchIt=yes&sport=0&month=0&day=01&year=2006&conferenceId=0&schoolId=76

[Edit:  UWW BLOCKS a potential-game-tying FG attempt by Wartburg -- ball bounces back to the 50 where UWW falls on it.  Wow, it proves you need some luck to go with the skill as defending national champs.]

blocking field goals takes skill.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 03:38:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 03:19:51 PM
blocking field goals takes skill.....

AND luck since they installed the "you must lay off the center for a fraction of a second" rule in the mid-1990s.  The timing is difficult, even if you can get near the ball in the backfield or jump at the line.  It more requires a badly kicked ball these days (which isn't skill) than aggressive play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 06, 2008, 03:43:04 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 06, 2008, 03:38:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 03:19:51 PM
blocking field goals takes skill.....

AND luck since they installed the "you must lay off the center for a fraction of a second" rule in the mid-1990s.  The timing is difficult, even if you can get near the ball in the backfield or jump at the line.  It more requires a badly kicked ball these days (which isn't skill) than aggressive play.

The Bills have a back up safety, John Wendling, just completely jump over top of the O-line to attempt to block the kick.  He has gotten pretty close to it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0P-22hhrW4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0P-22hhrW4)

He clears the lineman but he has a bit of trouble timing the 2nd jump to block the kick...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on December 06, 2008, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 06, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:27:53 PM
If I'm a MUC fan, I'm pissed Kmic is still in the game.

Why is he still in there getting hit? Ridiculous. If he gets hurt it changes your season.

He cant break the record if he's not playing....

No other reason why he's in there when they're up by 20 with under 10 minutes to play...

20 with 10 minutes is no lock in a blind blizzard. You keep your best hands guy on the field. He still fumbled once in the fourth. Why keep your starters in? Because their playing a semi final game next week and they weren't that sharp in the first half. I know it's frustrating when your kids are done for the year and the other team seems like they are piling it on, but Mount has to keep their focus becasue there is at least one more game to get ready for. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 06, 2008, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 06, 2008, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 06, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:27:53 PM
If I'm a MUC fan, I'm pissed Kmic is still in the game.

Why is he still in there getting hit? Ridiculous. If he gets hurt it changes your season.

He cant break the record if he's not playing....

No other reason why he's in there when they're up by 20 with under 10 minutes to play...

20 with 10 minutes is no lock in a blind blizzard. You keep your best hands guy on the field. He still fumbled once in the fourth. Why keep your starters in? Because their playing a semi final game next week and they weren't that sharp in the first half. I know it's frustrating when your kids are done for the year and the other team seems like they are piling it on, but Mount has to keep their focus becasue there is at least one more game to get ready for. 

MUC scored their final TD with 5 minutes to play and Kmic was still in up by 20...

If thats not padding the stats, I dont know what is...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on December 06, 2008, 04:57:34 PM
Kmic has yet to play 4 quarters all year.  This is the playoffs.  If you don't like it, stop him.  The Raiders need to make sure they can go the distance next week if needed.  Game 13 keeping your starters in is a little bit different than week 2.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 04:59:09 PM
Upstate.....that's totally ridiculous.  

Mount has NEVER ran up the score, stats, etc......EVER.

Just more bitterness.....please. ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 06, 2008, 05:08:12 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 04:59:09 PM
Upstate.....that's totally ridiculous.  

Mount has NEVER ran up the score, stats, etc......EVER.

Just more bitterness.....please. ::)


To dismiss Upstates comments regarding padding stats and the risk of injury to Kmic at that point in the game is what is ridiculous. 

On the Daily Dose, MUC fans were gasping at an unsportsman-like conduct penalty on Cortland against Kmic late in the game......you want to leave him in at that point in the game, that's the risk you take.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 05:19:07 PM
If you knew anything about Coach Kehres (and I realize you are from the East and really don't know), you would know that he is so against personal stats meaning anything.  He would NEVER keep Kmic in the game to pad his stats.  If Kmic was in, LK thought the game was still in question.  Do I agree with that........nope.  Coach Kehres always gives the opposing team more credit than they probably deserve.  It's obvious to most that the game was over.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 06, 2008, 05:28:11 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 05:19:07 PM
If you knew anything about Coach Kehres (and I realize you are from the East and really don't know), you would know that he is so against personal stats meaning anything.  He would NEVER keep Kmic in the game to pad his stats.  If Kmic was in, LK thought the game was still in question.  Do I agree with that........nope.  Coach Kehres always gives the opposing team more credit than they probably deserve.  It's obvious to most that the game was over.


I understand your point....I was addressing you calling Upstates point, 'totally ridiculous'......I thought his point was extremely valid and mirrored my own thoughts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 06, 2008, 05:34:07 PM
Also, why did Coach Kehres deal with all the bull from Garson?  Because he was the best reciever in the country, that's why.

I respect Mount, but the program is not beyond questioning.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 06, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...


Supes.....I love ya......rediculas question.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 06, 2008, 07:15:54 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2008, 04:59:09 PM
Upstate.....that's totally ridiculous.  

Mount has NEVER ran up the score, stats, etc......EVER.

Just more bitterness.....please. ::)

Far from bitter, just calling it as I see it...

I didnt have a horse in this race...

There's no reason why he's in there on that final drive up by 20...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BoSox0322 on December 06, 2008, 07:22:39 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 06, 2008, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 06, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:27:53 PM
If I'm a MUC fan, I'm pissed Kmic is still in the game.

Why is he still in there getting hit? Ridiculous. If he gets hurt it changes your season.

He cant break the record if he's not playing....

No other reason why he's in there when they're up by 20 with under 10 minutes to play...

20 with 10 minutes is no lock in a blind blizzard. You keep your best hands guy on the field. He still fumbled once in the fourth. Why keep your starters in? Because their playing a semi final game next week and they weren't that sharp in the first half. I know it's frustrating when your kids are done for the year and the other team seems like they are piling it on, but Mount has to keep their focus becasue there is at least one more game to get ready for. 

I agree
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Blutarsky on December 06, 2008, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...

.....only with Ditka.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on December 07, 2008, 12:06:51 AM
I know this is from year's ago and many of you may be tempted to dismiss it simply because of the time-lapse and score imbalance, BUT:

when Lycoming played against MUC and got shellacked, the tight end, caught a pass after the game was decided and gave the Warriors the finger as he raced down the sideline.

Now, this is merely one data point, but before we enshrine the MUC program in the beatification process, let's admit they are human, have bad actors as all programs do, and are venal creatures like we all are.

I tell you the truth, sometimes when I read posts from MUC folks you can almost hear angelic choirs singing in the background, even if it is only in their heads.  And clearly, since they are overwhelmingly successful, who are you to even begin to question them.

I thought the whole point of these posts was to engender comments?

I can hardly wait to see the purple goo that this one generates - but I was at the game and saw the unsportsmanlike performance when the Warriors were all but in the showers.

ATB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 07, 2008, 01:36:10 AM
Quote from: Union89 on December 06, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...


Supes.....I love ya......rediculas question.

Not rediculas, and the answer is yes. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: raider-in-law on December 07, 2008, 07:36:44 AM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 06, 2008, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 06, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
Quote from: Tags on December 06, 2008, 02:27:53 PM
If I'm a MUC fan, I'm pissed Kmic is still in the game.

Why is he still in there getting hit? Ridiculous. If he gets hurt it changes your season.

He cant break the record if he's not playing....

No other reason why he's in there when they're up by 20 with under 10 minutes to play...

20 with 10 minutes is no lock in a blind blizzard. You keep your best hands guy on the field. He still fumbled once in the fourth. Why keep your starters in? Because their playing a semi final game next week and they weren't that sharp in the first half. I know it's frustrating when your kids are done for the year and the other team seems like they are piling it on, but Mount has to keep their focus becasue there is at least one more game to get ready for. 
If you  wanted to keep the ball out the hands of a team that's two scoring drives took a total of 8 plays , who would you give the ball to?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 07, 2008, 08:03:09 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic

Once again, the supposedly "weak" East region gives MUC their toughest game of the season....

I'd say Whitewater gave them their toughest game of the season last year, you know when they defeated them for the national championship and all....


*Unless you are referring to this year exclusively, which then I can agree with you.  I just took the "once again" part as including last year when they were sent to the Eastern Region as well. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on December 07, 2008, 08:29:13 AM
interesting debate as to whether or not MUC was running up the score or not.  sounds like they may have kept their starters in longer than some would have liked in yesterday's game. 

since i dont know the coach, only from what i have read, he doesnt seem like the type, but at the same time it is easy to question why is the starting running back in that late in the game when the game is essentially over? 

in general, i think most of the good programs keep the starters in for too long against overmatched opponents from what i have seen in the last 5 years.  wesley plays theirs deep into the 3rd or early into the 4th when they are up 30 or more.  it cost them this year when the starting running back sprains his ankle against galludet when they were up 43 - 0, and is unable to perform well against muhlenberg and umhb.

the playoffs are different, with limited rosters some teams only go 2 or 3 deep and the player they put in is not much of a drop off from the starter.  it is a debate that will continue forever as long as someone beats someone by more than the loser would like and they look for something to complain about when they should look for ways to improve their own team so as not to have it happen to them.  you heard no complaining from the wesley people about who was in the game in the 4th quarter for umhb, most of the starters on both sides of the ball were still in, wesley didnt get the job done and got a beat down.  end of story.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 07, 2008, 12:52:02 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 07, 2008, 08:03:09 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic

Once again, the supposedly "weak" East region gives MUC their toughest game of the season....

I'd say Whitewater gave them their toughest game of the season last year, you know when they defeated them for the national championship and all....


*Unless you are referring to this year exclusively, which then I can agree with you.  I just took the "once again" part as including last year when they were sent to the Eastern Region as well. 

Yeah, "once again" implies it's happened in a previous year, which I agree doesn't compute.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 07, 2008, 12:58:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 07, 2008, 08:29:13 AM
interesting debate as to whether or not MUC was running up the score or not.  sounds like they may have kept their starters in longer than some would have liked in yesterday's game. 

since i dont know the coach, only from what i have read, he doesnt seem like the type, but at the same time it is easy to question why is the starting running back in that late in the game when the game is essentially over? 

in general, i think most of the good programs keep the starters in for too long against overmatched opponents from what i have seen in the last 5 years.  wesley plays theirs deep into the 3rd or early into the 4th when they are up 30 or more.  it cost them this year when the starting running back sprains his ankle against galludet when they were up 43 - 0, and is unable to perform well against muhlenberg and umhb.

the playoffs are different, with limited rosters some teams only go 2 or 3 deep and the player they put in is not much of a drop off from the starter.  it is a debate that will continue forever as long as someone beats someone by more than the loser would like and they look for something to complain about when they should look for ways to improve their own team so as not to have it happen to them.  you heard no complaining from the wesley people about who was in the game in the 4th quarter for umhb, most of the starters on both sides of the ball were still in, wesley didnt get the job done and got a beat down.  end of story.

I know Kehres doesn't care about records, but the rushing record is in reach for Kmic.  And Mount was only up 20 at the time.  Let the kid go for the record. I think Kehres wants him to get it, after team goals are in hand.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on December 07, 2008, 02:38:41 PM
Quote from: JT on December 07, 2008, 12:58:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 07, 2008, 08:29:13 AM
interesting debate as to whether or not MUC was running up the score or not.  sounds like they may have kept their starters in longer than some would have liked in yesterday's game. 

since i dont know the coach, only from what i have read, he doesnt seem like the type, but at the same time it is easy to question why is the starting running back in that late in the game when the game is essentially over? 

in general, i think most of the good programs keep the starters in for too long against overmatched opponents from what i have seen in the last 5 years.  wesley plays theirs deep into the 3rd or early into the 4th when they are up 30 or more.  it cost them this year when the starting running back sprains his ankle against galludet when they were up 43 - 0, and is unable to perform well against muhlenberg and umhb.

the playoffs are different, with limited rosters some teams only go 2 or 3 deep and the player they put in is not much of a drop off from the starter.  it is a debate that will continue forever as long as someone beats someone by more than the loser would like and they look for something to complain about when they should look for ways to improve their own team so as not to have it happen to them.  you heard no complaining from the wesley people about who was in the game in the 4th quarter for umhb, most of the starters on both sides of the ball were still in, wesley didnt get the job done and got a beat down.  end of story.

I know Kehres doesn't care about records, but the rushing record is in reach for Kmic.  And Mount was only up 20 at the time.  Let the kid go for the record. I think Kehres wants him to get it, after team goals are in hand.

JT I tend to agree with you, but in this situation Mount Fans can't have it both ways... Kmic can go for the record but if their is a late hit they can't be getting upset about it... It is a teams perogtive to take the penalty to send a message
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 07, 2008, 03:09:43 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 07, 2008, 02:38:41 PM
Quote from: JT on December 07, 2008, 12:58:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 07, 2008, 08:29:13 AM
interesting debate as to whether or not MUC was running up the score or not.  sounds like they may have kept their starters in longer than some would have liked in yesterday's game. 

since i dont know the coach, only from what i have read, he doesnt seem like the type, but at the same time it is easy to question why is the starting running back in that late in the game when the game is essentially over? 

in general, i think most of the good programs keep the starters in for too long against overmatched opponents from what i have seen in the last 5 years.  wesley plays theirs deep into the 3rd or early into the 4th when they are up 30 or more.  it cost them this year when the starting running back sprains his ankle against galludet when they were up 43 - 0, and is unable to perform well against muhlenberg and umhb.

the playoffs are different, with limited rosters some teams only go 2 or 3 deep and the player they put in is not much of a drop off from the starter.  it is a debate that will continue forever as long as someone beats someone by more than the loser would like and they look for something to complain about when they should look for ways to improve their own team so as not to have it happen to them.  you heard no complaining from the wesley people about who was in the game in the 4th quarter for umhb, most of the starters on both sides of the ball were still in, wesley didnt get the job done and got a beat down.  end of story.

I know Kehres doesn't care about records, but the rushing record is in reach for Kmic.  And Mount was only up 20 at the time.  Let the kid go for the record. I think Kehres wants him to get it, after team goals are in hand.

JT I tend to agree with you, but in this situation Mount Fans can't have it both ways... Kmic can go for the record but if their is a late hit they can't be getting upset about it... It is a teams perogtive to take the penalty to send a message

That too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on December 07, 2008, 05:10:47 PM
Checking in late.

First and foremost, thank you to Coach mac, the players, the coaches, the team doctors and everyone else who helped provide a magical year.  I enjoyed it.

Secondly. Mount Union is good.  really good. It is a tribute to their staff and everyone to be so continually dominant.  The bottom line is the final score was 41-14.  I know we played thenm tough for a half, but the fact of the matter was we got Monkey Stomped.  Congrats Mount Union.

As far running up the score, who cares if they were or not.  It is our job to stop them.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 07, 2008, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on December 07, 2008, 05:10:47 PM
Checking in late.

First and foremost, thank you to Coach mac, the players, the coaches, the team doctors and everyone else who helped provide a magical year.  I enjoyed it.

Secondly. Mount Union is good.  really good. It is a tribute to their staff and everyone to be so continually dominant.  The bottom line is the final score was 41-14.  I know we played thenm tough for a half, but the fact of the matter was we got Monkey Stomped.  Congrats Mount Union.

As far running up the score, who cares if they were or not.  It is our job to stop them.   

MUC kept the starters in the whole game against Ithaca last year too.  But I think in any game when there is s 3 TD lead with more than 5 minutes you need to have the starters in.  Especially for a team like MUC who actually wins games like these because of TOP.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rscl70 on December 07, 2008, 06:32:43 PM
Quote from: Lyco80 on December 07, 2008, 12:06:51 AM
I know this is from year's ago and many of you may be tempted to dismiss it simply because of the time-lapse and score imbalance, BUT:

when Lycoming played against MUC and got shellacked, the tight end, caught a pass after the game was decided and gave the Warriors the finger as he raced down the sideline.

Now, this is merely one data point, but before we enshrine the MUC program in the beatification process, let's admit they are human, have bad actors as all programs do, and are venal creatures like we all are.

I tell you the truth, sometimes when I read posts from MUC folks you can almost hear angelic choirs singing in the background, even if it is only in their heads.  And clearly, since they are overwhelmingly successful, who are you to even begin to question them.

I thought the whole point of these posts was to engender comments?

I can hardly wait to see the purple goo that this one generates - but I was at the game and saw the unsportsmanlike performance when the Warriors were all but in the showers.

ATB

Actually he suffered from a muscle spasm which gave you the impression that he had given you the finger.  Now back to the angelic choirs. ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Toph on December 07, 2008, 07:13:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic

Once again, the supposedly "weak" East region gives MUC their toughest game of the season....

This statement is insane for more than a few reasons, the biggest being that UWW gave Mount its toughest game of the season when they BEAT them in the Stagg in 2007.  I think that might have been a tougher game than your Bombers' 49-14 loss. 

If the East's PLAYOFF teams can't give Mount a better game than a fairly average OAC (this season anyway), I'd say you should be concerned.  It's the playoffs...the best teams from the region.  They better give Mount a tougher game than...say...Marietta.  Don't be ridiculous.

Cortland State played well yesterday.  Congratulations on a fine season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 07, 2008, 07:29:06 PM
Quote from: Toph on December 07, 2008, 07:13:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic

Once again, the supposedly "weak" East region gives MUC their toughest game of the season....

This statement is insane for more than a few reasons, the biggest being that UWW gave Mount its toughest game of the season when they BEAT them in the Stagg in 2007.  I think that might have been a tougher game than your Bombers' 49-14 loss. 

If the East's PLAYOFF teams can't give Mount a better game than a fairly average OAC (this season anyway), I'd say you should be concerned.  It's the playoffs...the best teams from the region.  They better give Mount a tougher game than...say...Marietta.  Don't be ridiculous.

Cortland State played well yesterday.  Congratulations on a fine season.

Not to be picky but Ithaca lost 42-18, not 49-14.  It could have been 49-18 if MUC didnt run out the clock in the 4th though......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 07, 2008, 07:43:45 PM
I thought Mount Union usually pulls their starters in those OAC blowouts within the first half don't they?  I could be wrong, but that has to account for something right?  Rowan has given Mount Union some fits and even beat them once, and Fisher gave Mount Union a game once.  Outside of that Mount Union has never had a game seriously in doubt against the East, but I think when comparing how other regions' teams do against Mount Union there is no incredibly noticable difference that would suggest the East is just blatantly weaker. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 09:00:33 PM
Quote from: Toph on December 07, 2008, 07:13:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 06, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 06, 2008, 02:22:02 PM
Cortland's coming undone.. really late hit by Cortland on Kmic

Once again, the supposedly "weak" East region gives MUC their toughest game of the season....

This statement is insane for more than a few reasons, the biggest being that UWW gave Mount its toughest game of the season when they BEAT them in the Stagg in 2007.  I think that might have been a tougher game than your Bombers' 49-14 loss. 

If the East's PLAYOFF teams can't give Mount a better game than a fairly average OAC (this season anyway), I'd say you should be concerned.  It's the playoffs...the best teams from the region.  They better give Mount a tougher game than...say...Marietta.  Don't be ridiculous.

Cortland State played well yesterday.  Congratulations on a fine season.

This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Small but Slow on December 07, 2008, 09:42:57 PM
A playoff "blowout" differs from a regular season "blowout" in several ways.  I believe the MUC staff respects the ability of playoff caliber teams to come back from deficits.  Just because one team has dominated the first half or even three quarters of a game doesn't mean the other team doesn't have the ability to come back.  I watched a hs state championship game a couple years ago where a team had a 35-7 lead with 10 minutes left and began subbing liberally.  The team that was down got some momentum and even when the other team put the starters back in they had lost their edge.  The game ended being a double over time game with the team with the huge lead winning.  Any team's backups should not be nearly as good as a playoff caliber team's starters.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on December 07, 2008, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...

Yes, the all-star team would be too deep.  That type of question would be more interesting in college hoops as I think UNC would beat an all-american team of every other school.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 07, 2008, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 09:00:33 PM
This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.



I find the discussion of running up the score rather funny when we're talking about a 20 point game with 10 minutes to go in the playoffs.  Cortland had proven to be a quality opponent and the score right before half proved that they shouldn't be counted out too early.  If you want to discuss running up the score, let's talk about Oklahoma last night.  That was running up the score!   Now if Mount would have still been playing the starters in the last few minutes and throwing the ball, that be running it up too. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 07, 2008, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 09:00:33 PM
This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.


hscoach, what I stated is pretty much a paraphrase from the Committee Chair from "In the HuddLLe" during Selection Weekend.  That's not just conjecture on my part.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on December 08, 2008, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: hscoach on December 07, 2008, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 09:00:33 PM
This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.



I find the discussion of running up the score rather funny when we're talking about a 20 point game with 10 minutes to go in the playoffs.  Cortland had proven to be a quality opponent and the score right before half proved that they shouldn't be counted out too early.  If you want to discuss running up the score, let's talk about Oklahoma last night.  That was running up the score!   Now if Mount would have still been playing the starters in the last few minutes and throwing the ball, that be running it up too. 

OK...from a Cortland fan who was there....MUC did not run up the score.  Padded Kmic stats?  maybe but even that is a tough argument to make...As a cortland fan I never felt at anytime during the game that they were disrespecting Cortland.  They ran an excellent ball control offense.  Look at the TOP...ridiculous.  43 min. to 17.   It was what it was...a monkey stomp but one which cortland had some good moments.  It was a great season.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 08, 2008, 01:56:11 AM
The only argument I have with MUC being moved East is the committee obviously overestimated the power of the North region.  Ever since Capital's short term run slowed down, the North has been lacking a true #2 powerhouse.  So without MUC, I just don't see what they had that was worthy of a championship bracket.  The top seeds were obviously overrated, and are now eliminated.  Wheaton will lose convincingly to MUC, so what was the point of moving MUC in the first place? 

The power teams are in the West and South.  MUC was the only true monster from the North.  I honestly don't see much difference between the North and East in terms of quality teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Small but Slow on December 08, 2008, 08:29:45 AM
Dan, I also don't see the purpose in moving Mt. Union to the East region for the playoffs.  I have a theory for the committee moving them around to play various regions to give other North region teams a chance to advance.  Prior to this year experts were saying the Tampa Bay Rays only chance to make the playoffs was for realignment, moving them out of the AL East.  If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 08, 2008, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Come on guys!  No one in the East deserved a 1 seed and Mount Union is the closest geographically.  Had Cortland or Muhlenburg won their last game of the regular season, we would not have seen Mt. Union in the East. 

Get used to it!  As long as the East doesn't produce a dominant #1 seed candidate, we will see Mt. Union or a strong 'South' team that is in the Middle Altantic Region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on December 08, 2008, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Geography is the Answer.  Bing, Bing, Bing.

MTU is the closest for travel.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on December 08, 2008, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

Historically, the #2 team in the OAC has done very well in the tournament.  Not as much as of recent times, but most MTU fans would agree that the OAC is down this year.

ONU, Capital and JCU both have had good runs in the playoffs and there are usually 2-3 teams just below MTU that would do VERY well in other conferences (JCU, BW, Capital and ONU).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 08, 2008, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 08, 2008, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Come on guys!  No one in the East deserved a 1 seed and Mount Union is the closest geographically.  Had Cortland or Muhlenburg won their last game of the regular season, we would not have seen Mt. Union in the East. 

Get used to it!  As long as the East doesn't produce a dominant #1 seed candidate, we will see Mt. Union or a strong 'South' team that is in the Middle Altantic Region.

Yup.  What he said.^
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Toph on December 08, 2008, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

How long have you been following D3 football?  Mount has 4 losses since the turn of the century.  It's not because the conference is weak.

2000- ONU is #2 in the OAC, wins in the first round, loses to Mount in the second.
2002- JCU is #2 in the OAC, shipped to the East, wins every one of their road games in the playoffs, only to lose to Mount Union in the semis.
2003- BW is #2 in the OAC, wins their first round game 54-32, loses to Wheaton 16-12, Wheaton loses to Mount in the next round.
2005- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...you guessed it, Mount Union
2006- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...I'll let you figure it out
2008- Otterbein is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round

I'd say that's a pretty good track record.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 08, 2008, 05:29:12 PM
You forgot last year, not that it hurts your argument.

2007 - Capital is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round to eventual champion UW-Whitewater
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 08, 2008, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Toph on December 08, 2008, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

How long have you been following D3 football?  Mount has 4 losses since the turn of the century.  It's not because the conference is weak.

2000- ONU is #2 in the OAC, wins in the first round, loses to Mount in the second.
2002- JCU is #2 in the OAC, shipped to the East, wins every one of their road games in the playoffs, only to lose to Mount Union in the semis.
2003- BW is #2 in the OAC, wins their first round game 54-32, loses to Wheaton 16-12, Wheaton loses to Mount in the next round.
2005- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...you guessed it, Mount Union
2006- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...I'll let you figure it out
2008- Otterbein is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round

I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

Throw the John Carroll season out the window and everything else is pointless to me.  All it tells me is the North sucks, and usually there is another decent OAC team that is better than other competition, but no comparison to MUC.  I think Mount Union has swayed everyone's thoughts of how strong the North is because they are so dominant.  There are more teams in the East than anywhere, yet we always get teams shipped in because there is more parity, where as in the North, they play candy ass schedules, but the 10-0, 9-1 teams look so impressive to the committee because that is where MUC lives.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 08, 2008, 07:52:02 PM
Quote from: Small but Slow on December 08, 2008, 08:29:45 AM
Dan, I also don't see the purpose in moving Mt. Union to the East region for the playoffs.  I have a theory for the committee moving them around to play various regions to give other North region teams a chance to advance.  Prior to this year experts were saying the Tampa Bay Rays only chance to make the playoffs was for realignment, moving them out of the AL East.  If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. 


Now you are talking my ballgame.   8)  As a Rays fan, 2008 was a dream season.  And I wouldn't have it any other way than playing the Yankees and Red Sox.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 08, 2008, 07:54:53 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on December 08, 2008, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Geography is the Answer.  Bing, Bing, Bing.

MTU is the closest for travel.


Exactly.  But my argument is in doing so, you deplete the North bracket.  What you need to do to make it equitable is backfill the Northern bracket with a Western power, like they previously had with UWW.  If they move the WIAC champion to the North bracket, we have a much better balance.  Mount Union is going to kill Wheaton.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 08, 2008, 08:01:05 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 07, 2008, 01:36:10 AM
Quote from: Union89 on December 06, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...


Supes.....I love ya......rediculas question.

Not rediculas, and the answer is yes. ;)

I would totally agree DC.....that's why I thought the question was bad.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on December 08, 2008, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 08, 2008, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Come on guys!  No one in the East deserved a 1 seed and Mount Union is the closest geographically.  Had Cortland or Muhlenburg won their last game of the regular season, we would not have seen Mt. Union in the East. 

Get used to it!  As long as the East doesn't produce a dominant #1 seed candidate, we will see Mt. Union or a strong 'South' team that is in the Middle Altantic Region.


True....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 08, 2008, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 08, 2008, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Toph on December 08, 2008, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

How long have you been following D3 football?  Mount has 4 losses since the turn of the century.  It's not because the conference is weak.

2000- ONU is #2 in the OAC, wins in the first round, loses to Mount in the second.
2002- JCU is #2 in the OAC, shipped to the East, wins every one of their road games in the playoffs, only to lose to Mount Union in the semis.
2003- BW is #2 in the OAC, wins their first round game 54-32, loses to Wheaton 16-12, Wheaton loses to Mount in the next round.
2005- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...you guessed it, Mount Union
2006- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...I'll let you figure it out
2008- Otterbein is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round

I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

Throw the John Carroll season out the window and everything else is pointless to me.  All it tells me is the North sucks, and usually there is another decent OAC team that is better than other competition, but no comparison to MUC.  I think Mount Union has swayed everyone's thoughts of how strong the North is because they are so dominant.  There are more teams in the East than anywhere, yet we always get teams shipped in because there is more parity, where as in the North, they play candy ass schedules, but the 10-0, 9-1 teams look so impressive to the committee because that is where MUC lives.

This makes so much sense.  LD is on to something here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: superman57 on December 08, 2008, 09:48:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on December 08, 2008, 08:01:05 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 07, 2008, 01:36:10 AM
Quote from: Union89 on December 06, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...


Supes.....I love ya......rediculas question.

Not rediculas, and the answer is yes. ;)

I would totally agree DC.....that's why I thought the question was bad.

Ok... who would you have be the coach... Jason Boltus would be the obvious QB... what type of scheme would you want to run in order to beat MUC
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HHawks on December 08, 2008, 10:07:38 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 08, 2008, 09:48:16 PM
Quote from: Union89 on December 08, 2008, 08:01:05 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on December 07, 2008, 01:36:10 AM
Quote from: Union89 on December 06, 2008, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: superman57 on December 06, 2008, 06:39:56 PM
here's an interesting question if we took an all-east region all-star team, do you think they could beat Mount Union...


Supes.....I love ya......rediculas question.

Not rediculas, and the answer is yes. ;)

I would totally agree DC.....that's why I thought the question was bad.

Ok... who would you have be the coach... Jason Boltus would be the obvious QB... what type of scheme would you want to run in order to beat MUC

OK I believe that Mount Union is a very talented and disciplined D3 football team. They are beatable...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Small but Slow on December 08, 2008, 10:30:16 PM
Once upon a time the road to the national championship ran through the north region.  Dayton,Witt, B-W, Augie, and then Mount, had to fight their way through the north region then coasted to the Stagg for national titles.  Times have definitely changed.  Anybody have any good theories for this change?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 08, 2008, 10:45:36 PM
Quote from: Small but Slow on December 08, 2008, 10:30:16 PM
Once upon a time the road to the national championship ran through the north region.  Dayton,Witt, B-W, Augie, and then Mount, had to fight their way through the north region then coasted to the Stagg for national titles.  Times have definitely changed.  Anybody have any good theories for this change?
1)  The addition of the NWC to D3... Pac Lutheran in 1999 and Linfield in 2004.

2)  Strengthening of the programs in general in the WIAC.  I will defer to a WIAC lurker who might understand some of the nuances of the WIAC.  When did the WIAC go to 100-player roster, for one?  Has this meant greater parity in the WIAC that preps teams for the playoffs better?

3)  When did Witt move into the NCAC?  After about 5 years, does the competitive edge, or lack of it in the NCAC, "soften" the program?  EDIT--Wittenberg was a member of the OAC when they made that appearance in the Stagg.  Witt began play in the NCAC in 1989 (http://www.northcoast.org/timeline/83_88.html).

4)  Dayton?  Gone to D-1.

5)  Augie?  MUC is beating the CCIW, and Augie hasn't won a Stagg since current seniors were born.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Small but Slow on December 08, 2008, 10:57:34 PM
Ralph - Excellent points.  The NWC additions did strengthen the west.  Trinity, and UMHB has boosted the south, and look for Mike DuBose at Milsapps to keep building that program.  The NWC schools along with the southern schools also play in more pleasant climates which can help develop more diverse offensive attacks, but UWW and MUC playing in the last three championship games shoot a hole in that theory.  Not to discredit the east region, Rowan and Ithaca had some pretty successful runs throughout the years.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 08, 2008, 11:18:26 PM
The UWW players attribute their success in the Stagg (elsewhere on these sites) to the game that UMHB played them in the semis in Wisconsin the week before.   :)

UWW 16 UMHB 7 (http://www.d3football.com/releases.php?release=5d72q3kpztr5u05p)

QuoteBy almost every measure the game was a draw. Whitewater had 14 first downs, Mary Hardin Baylor 11. Whitewater had 273 total yards of offense, UMH-B 269. Whitewater had the ball for 66 plays, Mary Hardin-Baylor 67. There were a total of seven penalites in the game, split 4-3 (Whitewater 4). There was only one turnover in the game, remarkable given the frigid conditions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 09, 2008, 10:39:43 AM
For those that care, this discussion has spilled over to the Playoff thread in the General Football page too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on December 09, 2008, 11:43:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 07, 2008, 10:52:03 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2008, 09:00:33 PM
This is fine and all, but I think you're begging the question:  "Why did the Committee put MUC back at the top of the East?"  Answer:  Because they assumed MUC would roll over the East Region competition, giving the overall #1 seed the easiest road to the Semifinals.  You can't have it both ways, Toph.  The point is valid that the East teams DID overperform at times compared to what even the Committee's expectations were.

I don't think the NCAA moved Mount east because they thought that would be the easiest road for MUC.  You're giving the NCAA way too much credit.  Without an undefeated in the East and 3 of them in the North, it makes for a pretty easy decision if you're trying to reward 10-0 teams.  If Cortland would have beaten Ithaca, they'd have been a very legit #1 seed.  And I think they'd have still have earned a trip to Alliance, it would have just been in the semi-finals.


hscoach, what I stated is pretty much a paraphrase from the Committee Chair from "In the HuddLLe" during Selection Weekend.  That's not just conjecture on my part.

Frank,

I listened to your whole interveiw with Dick Kaiser (which was well done by the way!) and I didn't hear him say anything remotely close to what you paraphrased. Can you clarify?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on December 09, 2008, 11:49:13 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 08, 2008, 07:54:53 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on December 08, 2008, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 12:48:16 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
I agree as well that I don't see a reason why MUC has to be moved to the East for the playoffs.  Any point about no undeafeted teams doesn't pass my sniff test.  So Cortland loses one game and they don't seed #1.  They lost to what is probably the second best team in the East.  If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

vttanker,  you make a very good point.  Why does MUC have to be moved East?  Why not another team?  It would seem to me that the best team in a region should stay there.  I hope this doesn't have to do with transportation costs such as a bus ride or plane ride.

Geography is the Answer.  Bing, Bing, Bing.

MTU is the closest for travel.


Exactly.  But my argument is in doing so, you deplete the North bracket.  What you need to do to make it equitable is backfill the Northern bracket with a Western power, like they previously had with UWW.  If they move the WIAC champion to the North bracket, we have a much better balance.  Mount Union is going to kill Wheaton.

Dan,

I get that you don't like MUC in the east region but even if Mt Union beats Wheaton, it won't be any worse than Cortland or Ithaca the past two years. I see a lot of talk trying to tear down the North but there is NO evidence the East is any better. If Wheaton loses 42-7 are you going to argue Cortland is 7 pts better than Wheaton?

Ithaca and Wagner are your 2 Stagg bowl winners since 1973. The last win being in 1991. Besides MUC the North has had 7 different Stagg Bowl champions with 12 titles. East has had 2 teams win 4 times. These two regions don't play each other much so there isn't a lot of information but it isn't right to demean North teams when the East has fared no better or worse over time.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 09, 2008, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: JT on December 08, 2008, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 08, 2008, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Toph on December 08, 2008, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: vttanker on December 08, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
If MUC is in a tough conference it's not obvious to me since they monkeystomp that conference every year (1 conference loss in 10 years!).

How long have you been following D3 football?  Mount has 4 losses since the turn of the century.  It's not because the conference is weak.

2000- ONU is #2 in the OAC, wins in the first round, loses to Mount in the second.
2002- JCU is #2 in the OAC, shipped to the East, wins every one of their road games in the playoffs, only to lose to Mount Union in the semis.
2003- BW is #2 in the OAC, wins their first round game 54-32, loses to Wheaton 16-12, Wheaton loses to Mount in the next round.
2005- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...you guessed it, Mount Union
2006- Capital is #2 in the OAC, advances to the quarterfinals before losing to...I'll let you figure it out
2008- Otterbein is #2 in the OAC, loses in first round

I'd say that's a pretty good track record.

Throw the John Carroll season out the window and everything else is pointless to me.  All it tells me is the North sucks, and usually there is another decent OAC team that is better than other competition, but no comparison to MUC.  I think Mount Union has swayed everyone's thoughts of how strong the North is because they are so dominant.  There are more teams in the East than anywhere, yet we always get teams shipped in because there is more parity, where as in the North, they play candy ass schedules, but the 10-0, 9-1 teams look so impressive to the committee because that is where MUC lives.

This makes so much sense.  LD is on to something here.

I think he is. The East gets hammered in reputation regarding the NCAA and rightfully so. We haven't had a team in the mix in a while. Many still think Rowen is still dominent here. Yet the East is full of parity and decent D3 football. I think Bart and Cortland's performance against MUC speaks to this. Even though both got beat handily both showed very good potential and both came out of the game well respected and having impressed many. Looking at Curry coming in and taking IC out at home illustrates the parity that continues to grow over here. The football is very good and comparible with any across the country. However it is about time someone steps up and makes a run into the semi's (at least). MUC just a huge hurdle for anyone to go through.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on December 09, 2008, 08:42:24 PM
Not sure if this deserves it's own thread or not, but figured I'd drop it here under the "east region" heading:

First off - congrats to all the players named to All-Region teams - esp Boltus and Scalice from the East!  Congrats to Lyco's Coach Clark for a great year!

(slow, then quickly building clap, clap, clap, clap, clapclapclap!!!!!)

Now for the sour grapes:

1.  Never saw Scalice play but Hobart's SR LB Justin Hager had 42 more tackles than Scalice (134 to 92) and had comparable (3.5 vs. 7.5 tackles for loss, 4 vs 8 pass break ups).  Didn't see Scalice's stats re: INTs and FRs but Hager had 1 of each, including 2 FF and 2 blocked kicks (one of which helped Hobart win the RPI game).  Please don't misinterpret - not saying Scalice doesn't deserve the honor for DPOY - like I said I didn't see him play - solely based an argument on pure stats - but am interested hearing from IC/E8 fans to chime in as a counterpoint to my (obvious) Hobart bias.

2.  How the heck did the D3fb.com voters for the East Region completely overlook Hobart SR LB (and 3 time Co-capt) Jeff Sanders?

Sanders' stats on the year:

105 total tackles, 2.5 tfl, 1 INT, .5 sacks, 5 pass def, 3 FF, 1 FR

I am sure other guys on the first, second and third teams were deserving but Sanders really seemed to have a first team caliber year (he was a first team LL Def rep at ILB).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 10, 2008, 06:37:56 AM
Quote from: USee on December 09, 2008, 11:49:13 AM

I get that you don't like MUC in the east region but even if Mt Union beats Wheaton, it won't be any worse than Cortland or Ithaca the past two years. I see a lot of talk trying to tear down the North but there is NO evidence the East is any better. If Wheaton loses 42-7 are you going to argue Cortland is 7 pts better than Wheaton?



USee,

As in the Playoff Discussion thread, you are putting words in my mouth.  I did not write that the East is better than the North.  I just take offense to the assumption that the North is better than the East.

And it's not that I dislike Mount being in the East bracket.  I can live with it.  So we played them in the quarterfinals instead of the semifinals - you still have to beat them.  My argument is that because there is very little tangible difference between the North and the East, if you move Mount to the East, you had better replace them with a strong team from elsewhere in the North bracket.

I know the arguments for the North having its own bracket - that Trine won all its games, and NCC won all its games.  I personally don't see much difference between a 10-0 team and a 9-1 team that can't be explained by everything from road-home splits to luck and injuries. 

Sure, at some point you have to draw the line on the 32 teams to be selected.  But once you have your 32, use some logic in creating your brackets.  If you want each bracket to have a team in the Top 4 or Top 5 in the country, I'd think you would be very wary of NCC and extremely wary of Trine to hold up their end of the bargain. 

So you make NCC and Trine prove themselves against UWW, or UW-Stevens Point, or somebody of that caliber.  Just the way you force Curry to play on the road for years even when they are undefeated...because they haven't proven themselves yet.  Now that Curry has proven itself, not only does it host when undefeated, it even slips in with 1 loss.  If NCC beats a Mount, UWW, or UW-SP, they prove themselves too and can have their own bracket next season.

Look, if Cortland doesn't get intercepted 4 times in Ithaca's red zone then they might be undefeated too.  If Ithaca doesn't lay an absolute egg on the road at SJF, they are undefeated.  But neither team being undefeated would be a believable Top 4 team in the country this season.  I've seen them both.  They're good, maybe even great.  But not Elite 4/8 material.  I don't see why 10-0 means you get to have your own bracket.  You and I could easily pick several teams better than both, and some of those teams would have 1 loss.  We put far too much emphasis on being 10-0.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2008, 09:43:37 AM
I don't know why you would want the committee to be wary of North Central coming into the playoffs, though. They were the champion of a strong conference and they were undefeated. That's exactly the same resume that Cortland would've had if they had beaten Ithaca.

North Central was leading Franklin when NCC's starting quarterback got hurt. Any playoff team outside of Alliance is going to struggle against top competition when that happens. He didn't leave the game for good at that time but you have to wonder what might've been. The backup went 7-for-17 with two interceptions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Augie6 on December 10, 2008, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 10, 2008, 06:37:56 AM
Quote from: USee on December 09, 2008, 11:49:13 AM

I get that you don't like MUC in the east region but even if Mt Union beats Wheaton, it won't be any worse than Cortland or Ithaca the past two years. I see a lot of talk trying to tear down the North but there is NO evidence the East is any better. If Wheaton loses 42-7 are you going to argue Cortland is 7 pts better than Wheaton?



So you make NCC and Trine prove themselves against UWW, or UW-Stevens Point, or somebody of that caliber.  Just the way you force Curry to play on the road for years even when they are undefeated...because they haven't proven themselves yet.  Now that Curry has proven itself, not only does it host when undefeated, it even slips in with 1 loss.  If NCC beats a Mount, UWW, or UW-SP, they prove themselves too and can have their own bracket next season.



This just doesn't make any sense.  One, saying someone is making a statement by beating UW-SP is a bit of a stretch, IMO.  Yes UW-SP beat UWW this year, but they lost to UW-River Falls (a 3-7 team) and to Wartburg, at home, in the first round of the playoffs.  But what you also seem to be saying is that the only way you deserve a #1 seed is if you have beaten MUC or UWW.  Should we just move to two brackets and automatically give these two teams the number one seed each year?  Based on your logic, until someone other than these two teams plays in the Stagg Bowl, they should always be the number #1 seed, regardless of what occurs in the regular season.

As long as MUC's and UWW's dominance over other teams in DIII continues, there will be unbalanced brackets within the playoffs.  Those brackets that don't include those two teams will have an easier time advancing deeper into the playoffs.  That doesn't mean that the other teams receiving #1 seeds are undeserving.

I would be willing to bet that if CS had beaten Ithaca and had received a #1 seed, these discussions wouldn't be happening.  As for your assertion that everyone assumes the North teams (outside of MUC) are better than the east, I don't think that's the case.  I played against several East region teams back in our mid-80's championship run (Union twice and Ithaca) and I have nothing but respect for the quality of football that is played in the East.  My issue is with your assumption that other north region teams need to beat MUC/UWW to be considered worthy of a #1 seed ahead of anyone else.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 10, 2008, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: Augie6 on December 10, 2008, 11:31:12 AM

As long as MUC's and UWW's dominance over other teams in DIII continues, there will be unbalanced brackets within the playoffs.  Those brackets that don't include those two teams will have an easier time advancing deeper into the playoffs.  That doesn't mean that the other teams receiving #1 seeds are undeserving.


No, that's not correct.  UMHB, Hardin-Simmons, and arguably Millsaps are all teams which can play with MUC and UWW on any given Saturday.  The South bracket had plenty of power.  The only bracket lacking a power team was the North.  Why is this so difficult for you to swallow?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on December 10, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 10, 2008, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: Augie6 on December 10, 2008, 11:31:12 AM

As long as MUC's and UWW's dominance over other teams in DIII continues, there will be unbalanced brackets within the playoffs.  Those brackets that don't include those two teams will have an easier time advancing deeper into the playoffs.  That doesn't mean that the other teams receiving #1 seeds are undeserving.


No, that's not correct.  UMHB, Hardin-Simmons, and arguably Millsaps are all teams which can play with MUC and UWW on any given Saturday.  The South bracket had plenty of power.  The only bracket lacking a power team was the North.  Why is this so difficult for you to swallow?

Because there is no proof of that. In fact it's the East that had NO UNDEFEATED team. Why is that so hard for YOU to swallow?

And when you come on here mouthing off saying "Mt Union is going to kill Wheaton" you are talking about a team and a conference you know nothing about so you lose credibility. If Wheaton loses Saturday to the best program in D3 history it won't be because you knew it was going to happen. 

North Central absolutely deserved a #1 seed and got it. get over it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 10, 2008, 11:45:15 PM
Quote from: USee on December 10, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
Because there is no proof of that. In fact it's the East that had NO UNDEFEATED team. Why is that so hard for YOU to swallow?

Seriously...are you even reading my posts?  I argued in favor of Mount coming East.  If you don't bother to read my posts, then there isn't much point in responding to them.

How can you say North Central deserved a #1 seed when they lost in the second round to a team which was immediately bounced in the next round?  Are you saying North Central is on the same level of Mount Union, UMHB, and UWW?  Because they must be, if they were so deserved of their own bracket.


Quote from: USee on December 10, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
And when you come on here mouthing off saying "Mt Union is going to kill Wheaton" you are talking about a team and a conference you know nothing about so you lose credibility. If Wheaton loses Saturday to the best program in D3 history it won't be because you knew it was going to happen. 

North Central absolutely deserved a #1 seed and got it. get over it.


I'm "mouthing off?"  Is that the best you can come up?  I've been following D3 for 20+ years, and not just the East either.  Much like in the Playoff thread, you have turned the debate into a personal argument and brought it down to the lowest common denominator.  Thanks for adding to all of our knowledge. I'll just stay here and pretend to not know anything about the CCIW because I live in NY state, and defer to your expertise on why the East is clearly weaker than the North. 

I'm sure you make it a point to fly around the country every year to catch a few NJAC and MAC games, so that you can reign supreme in your knowledge of D3 football. 

I'm pretty sure I saw you at Cortaca wearing an "IC, U-SEE, We All C" t-shirt.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Augie6 on December 10, 2008, 11:49:38 PM
Quote from: USee on December 10, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 10, 2008, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: Augie6 on December 10, 2008, 11:31:12 AM

As long as MUC's and UWW's dominance over other teams in DIII continues, there will be unbalanced brackets within the playoffs.  Those brackets that don't include those two teams will have an easier time advancing deeper into the playoffs.  That doesn't mean that the other teams receiving #1 seeds are undeserving.


No, that's not correct.  UMHB, Hardin-Simmons, and arguably Millsaps are all teams which can play with MUC and UWW on any given Saturday.  The South bracket had plenty of power.  The only bracket lacking a power team was the North.  Why is this so difficult for you to swallow?

Because there is no proof of that. In fact it's the East that had NO UNDEFEATED team. Why is that so hard for YOU to swallow?

And when you come on here mouthing off saying "Mt Union is going to kill Wheaton" you are talking about a team and a conference you know nothing about so you lose credibility. If Wheaton loses Saturday to the best program in D3 history it won't be because you knew it was going to happen. 

North Central absolutely deserved a #1 seed and got it. get over it.

For someone who says they have studied D3 for the past 2 decades, you sure don't seem to know much about it.  First you state in an earlier post that teams in the North need to be tested by MUC, UWW and UW-SP.  UW-SP has been in the playoffs a total of 4 times since 1986 and has a 1-3 record.  Shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as MUC and UWW.  Then you say that Millsaps (albeit arguably) could play with MUC and UWW on any given Saturday.  Where is there any proof of that?  Your talking about a team that has made 3 playoff appearances since 1975, who was 2-7 as recently as 2005 and who lost by 15 at home to W&J in this year's playoffs who then proceeded to lose to UMHB by 56.  And you're saying that this is a team who can compete with MUC and UWW?  Maybe in your alternate universe, but not in anyone else's.  You also stated in an earlier post on the 2008 playoff thread that there was not a strong program in the South region other than UMHB and HSU.  So which is it?  Is Millsaps a power program or not?

HSU is a good program, but until they actually play and beat a UWW or MUC in the playoffs (or even UMHB), I certainly wouldn't annoit them as a D3 power anywhere near the same level as UWW or MUC.  HSU has been in the playoffs 6 times since they converted from NAIA to NCAA D3.  In that tim, they are 4-6 in the playoffs with 3 losses to UMHB and no losses to UWW or MUC.  Wheaton has been in the playoffs six times since 1995 and their record is 9-5 with all 5 losses coming to MUC.  So please tell me with some rationale thought why HSU should be considered so much better than Wheaton and is one of the power programs in D3.  UMHB is, arguably, the closest program to UWW and MUC and they have a chance to put themselves up their by winning their next two games.  However, until they actually do it, they are just like every other team in D3, trying to catch the two true power programs who have played for the title the past 3 years. 

Unless you are willing to provide some actual data and rationale to back up some of these ridiculous statements, please don't bother responding.  My guess is you won't because you can't. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 11, 2008, 12:09:41 AM
I respect any team which wins the WIAC.  Unless UWW's and Lacrosse's programs collapsed, I'd say Stevens Point must have been a pretty good team to win that conference.  You want proof?  Well, UWW beat Mount convincingly and is the defending NCAA D3 champion...and Stevens Point finished ahead of them this year.  Is that enough?   

Hardin-Simmons played UMHB to a virtual deadlock this season. 

Regular season:  Lost 20-18 on the road to UMHB.
Playoffs:  Lost 38-35 on the road  to UMHB.


They also hold an impressive win over a strong Linfield team.

And who was the last team to beat MUC in the playoffs besides UWW?  UMHB, at Alliance no less.  So it is not just "my opinion" that UMHB can play with MUC and UWW on any given Saturday.

Millsaps is arguably the fastest rising team in D3.  If you are not aware of this, I suggest you do some reading up on the situation.  They are coached by Mike Dubose, whose resume includes 4 years as head coach of Alabama (yes, the Crimson Tide).  Since he arrived, Millsaps has gone 7-4, 8-2, and 11-1 respectively.

Millsaps laid an egg against W&J.  But they also smashed a very good Trinity TX team 56-27, and beat a strong DePauw team 55-13. 

For the record, D3Football.com ranked Millsaps #3 in the nation.

But you are right, I have no proof of any of this.

Do you spend this much time arguing against the D3Football Top 25 every week?  After all, it's not like those coaches and SID's who vote get to see all the teams across the country play.  They have no proof...just opinions. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Augie6 on December 11, 2008, 12:47:00 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 11, 2008, 12:09:41 AM
I respect any team which wins the WIAC.  Unless UWW's and Lacrosse's programs collapsed, I'd say Stevens Point must have been a pretty good team to win that conference.  You want proof?  Well, UWW beat Mount convincingly and is the defending NCAA D3 champion...and Stevens Point finished ahead of them this year.  Is that enough?   

Hardin-Simmons played UMHB to a virtual deadlock this season. 

Regular season:  Lost 20-18 on the road to UMHB.
Playoffs:  Lost 38-35 on the road  to UMHB.


They also hold an impressive win over a strong Linfield team.

Millsaps is arguably the fastest rising team in D3.  If you are not aware of this, I suggest you do some reading up on the situation.  They are coached by Mike Dubose, whose resume includes 4 years as head coach of Alabama (yes, the Crimson Tide).  Since he arrived, Millsaps has gone 7-4, 8-2, and 11-1 respectively.

Millsaps laid an egg against W&J.  But they also smashed a very good Trinity TX team 56-27, and beat a strong DePauw team 55-13. 

For the record, D3Football.com ranked Millsaps #3 in the nation.

But you are right, I have no proof of any of this.

You really need to check yourself into a clinic.  Do you spend this much time arguing against the D3Football Top 25 every week?  After all, it's not like those coaches and SID's who vote get to see all the teams across the country play.  They have no proof...just opinions. 


You started the argument against the D3Football top 25 by stating NCC wasn't deserving of a #1 seed.  For the record, NCC was ranked #2 in the nation by D3football.com

Yes, UW-SP beat UWW this year.  They were a good team in 2008.  Does that put them on the level of MUC and UWW.  No.  Can you say upset?  They also lost to a 3-7 UW River Falls team and to Wartburg, at home, in the first round of the playoffs.  Not power program material.

I have read about Millsaps and am aware that Mike DuBose is the head coach there.  They have definitely improved and become a solid program.  The fact that they have a coach who coached at a major Division I program is great.  Does this put them at the same level as MUC or UWW.  Hardly.

HSU.  Again, no argument from me that they are a very good program.  But where is the data that supports your argument that they should be considered a power program on the same level as UWW or MUC.  The last I checked, playing good teams close doesn't win playoff games or national championships.  4-6 in the playoffs doesn't speak to a national power program. 

First you say NCC didn't deserve a number #1 seed in the North(despite being ranked #2 by D3football.com).   You justify this by what happened in the playoffs.  Then you say in one post that there are no power programs in the South outside of UMHB and HSU.  You follow that with a post that says Millsaps could play with UWW or MUC on any given Saturday and you justify that by pointing to their #3 ranking on D3football.com (while discounting what happened to them in the playoffs).  You then mention UW-SP and HSU as being power programs comparable to MUC and UWW with no evidence to back that up (a combined 5-9 record in the NCAA playoffs).  Yeah, and I'm the one who needs to check myself into a clinic.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 11, 2008, 01:21:06 AM
Just a subtle reminder that unless it's Union89 and me going at it... Some level of respect is appreciated on these PP boards in the East.  My guess is that Augie probably lacks some knowledge of many teams in the East named something other than "Rowan" -- so it works both ways.  Sarcasm is one thing -- but trying to grandstand with what you feel is factual information is a great way to turn off the reader from your point.  Just a random thought from a moron named Frank, though, so carry on. :-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 11, 2008, 07:37:12 AM
Dan,

I'm not sure I can follow you thru all of this discussion.  You dismissed the Millsaps loss to W&J as "laying an egg", but claim North Central's loss to Franklin as proof NCC wasn't worthy? 

All I'm going to say is re-read the info below:

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2008, 09:43:37 AM
I don't know why you would want the committee to be wary of North Central coming into the playoffs, though. They were the champion of a strong conference and they were undefeated. That's exactly the same resume that Cortland would've had if they had beaten Ithaca.

North Central was leading Franklin when NCC's starting quarterback got hurt. Any playoff team outside of Alliance is going to struggle against top competition when that happens. He didn't leave the game for good at that time but you have to wonder what might've been. The backup went 7-for-17 with two interceptions.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 11, 2008, 07:58:29 AM
In my opinion, Millsaps' body of work over an entire season is more impressive than North Central's.  Just my opinion.  You obviously don't agree with it, and I don't have a problem with it.  D3Football's poll is an opinion - of which I agree with most of the time.  But I felt they overrated NCC.  No big deal.  I don't see a reason to call people "irrational" because they don't agree with me.  Nor do I see a reason to claim others "don't know much about D3 football" because their opinions differ from mine. 

Since I stated my belief that the North and East regions were essentially equal, I've managed to lose about 1/3 of my karma in roughly 24 hours.  So I suppose I'll keep my opinions to myself on this topic, as I'm tired of arguing over who is/isn't a super power.  If people want to put NCC in the same sentence as Mary-Hardin Baylor, Mount Union, and UWW, fine. 

But I'll leave you with one question.  D3 voted NCC #2 in the nation.  But if you privately asked each person in the poll who they thought would win a neutral field game between NCC and defending national champion UWW, how do you think they would have voted?  Be careful with your answer, because the same voters placed NCC ahead of UWW.  Do polls measure who the best teams are, or who had the unblemished record?  I'd say both...but a lot of stress is put on the latter.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 11, 2008, 09:21:45 AM
In my opinion (and of COURSE it's not biased  ::)), here are the current levels in D-III football...

1.  Mount
2.  Whitwater
3.  MHB (but barely)
4.  SJU
5.  Wesley, Wheaton, SJF, Wabash, a few others
6.  All the recent "trendy" teams....Millsaps, Williamette, Linfield, etc...

IF Whitewater and Mount meet this year in the Stagg, AND Whitewater wins, then they will have a claim to the top spot with Mount.  Yes, they have made it to the Stagg the last three years, and finally won last year, but that doesn't put them on Mount's level YET.  And MHB has to prove it can get BACK to the Stagg, and finally WIN one to get up to possibly #2.  Linfield would be higher except they have laid an egg the last three years not even making the play-offs. 

Let's face it......it's Mount........and then......oh let's just go with Mount!   ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on December 11, 2008, 10:39:30 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 11, 2008, 09:21:45 AM
In my opinion (and of COURSE it's not biased  ::)), here are the current levels in D-III football...

1.  Mount
2.  Whitwater
3.  MHB (but barely)
4.  SJU
5.  Wesley, Wheaton, SJF, Wabash, a few others
6.  All the recent "trendy" teams....Millsaps, Williamette, Linfield, etc...

IF Whitewater and Mount meet this year in the Stagg, AND Whitewater wins, then they will have a claim to the top spot with Mount.  Yes, they have made it to the Stagg the last three years, and finally won last year, but that doesn't put them on Mount's level YET.  And MHB has to prove it can get BACK to the Stagg, and finally WIN one to get up to possibly #2.  Linfield would be higher except they have laid an egg the last three years not even making the play-offs. 

Let's face it......it's Mount........and then......oh let's just go with Mount!   ;)

Actually not bad but I think you have SJU too high, they have slipped back to the pack the last few years.  They belong in the Wesley, Wheaton group.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 11, 2008, 12:00:39 PM
Interesting list.  Rowan is 2 seasons removed from their last NCAA appearance, but I would imagine they would still be considered a premiere program.  Last season was a rough one, but the 8-2 season this year arguably puts them on par or ahead of some teams that got to the tourney from the East.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on December 11, 2008, 12:09:08 PM
I think Rowan would be in the Wesley, Wheaton, SJF etc group right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 11, 2008, 02:57:28 PM
Interesting concept.

It's similar to a theory I advanced a couple years ago which said there are essentially three tiers of playoff teams.

Tier I has the elite few who are national championship contenders.  Tier I could lose to Tier II, but it only happens very rarely (and even less rarely in the playoffs).  In most cases Tier I beats Tier II by 14+ points. Tier I doesn't lose to Tier III.

Tier II has the great teams who will go a couple rounds, depending on the match-up.  Sometimes Tier II teams play each other in the early rounds.  Tier II could beat a Tier I team if they play a tremendous game and Tier I plays poorly.  In most cases Tier II beats Tier III by 14+ points but could lose in an upset.

Tier III is everyone else who makes the playoffs.  Throw in the teams that just miss the playoffs in here, too, if you want.  They are contenders to make the playoffs and they might beat a Tier II team, but probably not more than one in the same playoff.  And they definitely don't beat Tier I. 

The trick is naming who is in each tier.   Before the season started, I would've put four teams in Tier I - Mount Union, Whitewater, UMHB and Wesley.  In retrospect three of them still fit.

The litmus test between Tier II and Tier III is whether you could ever envision the team beating someone in Tier I.  Would Curry ever beat Mount Union?  Would Aurora ever beat Whitewater?  If not, then they are Tier III.

Tier II includes Wheaton, Hardin Simmons, Cortland, Ithaca, etc.  Tier III includes Curry (upsets Tier II Ithaca), Plymouth State, Lycoming, etc.

In this theory, Wheaton could beat Mount Union if everything breaks right, but wouldn't beat UW-Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor in the Stagg Bowl.

And the teams within those Tiers can change over time.  Linfield was in Tier I a couple years ago and now is Tier III.  Same goes for Rowan.

Just a theory to play with.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 11, 2008, 03:32:35 PM
KR & XD - the ONLY reason I didn't have Rowan with Wesley/Wheaton group is that they haven't made the play-offs the last few years.  If they had, I would have probably put them above that group.  They are definitely in my group 6 for sure.

Gordon......WOW......I bow to your tier system.  You have said it much better, and much more succinctly that I could ever attempt.  However, I think your top grouping is not elite enough.  Other than that.....you da man!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 11, 2008, 03:38:25 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on December 11, 2008, 02:57:28 PM
Interesting concept.

It's similar to a theory I advanced a couple years ago which said there are essentially three tiers of playoff teams.

Tier I has the elite few who are national championship contenders.  Tier I could lose to Tier II, but it only happens very rarely (and even less rarely in the playoffs).  In most cases Tier I beats Tier II by 14+ points. Tier I doesn't lose to Tier III.

Tier II has the great teams who will go a couple rounds, depending on the match-up.  Sometimes Tier II teams play each other in the early rounds.  Tier II could beat a Tier I team if they play a tremendous game and Tier I plays poorly.  In most cases Tier II beats Tier III by 14+ points but could lose in an upset.

Tier III is everyone else who makes the playoffs.  Throw in the teams that just miss the playoffs in here, too, if you want.  They are contenders to make the playoffs and they might beat a Tier II team, but probably not more than one in the same playoff.  And they definitely don't beat Tier I. 

The trick is naming who is in each tier.   Before the season started, I would've put four teams in Tier I - Mount Union, Whitewater, UMHB and Wesley.  In retrospect three of them still fit.

The litmus test between Tier II and Tier III is whether you could ever envision the team beating someone in Tier I.  Would Curry ever beat Mount Union?  Would Aurora ever beat Whitewater?  If not, then they are Tier III.

Tier II includes Wheaton, Hardin Simmons, Cortland, Ithaca, etc.  Tier III includes Curry (upsets Tier II Ithaca), Plymouth State, Lycoming, etc.

In this theory, Wheaton could beat Mount Union if everything breaks right, but wouldn't beat UW-Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor in the Stagg Bowl.

And the teams within those Tiers can change over time.  Linfield was in Tier I a couple years ago and now is Tier III.  Same goes for Rowan.

Just a theory to play with.

Gordon,

That's a perfect synopysis of D3.  We've often had a discussion similar to this around A-town, but we've never put it so clearly. 

What makes Mount Union into The Maching is that they've been clearly Tier I since the early 1990's.  And should remain there as long as LK is the coach. 

Mount might not be the best team every year, but for the last 15 years they've been one of the handful of teams that COULD win it ever year.  And LK has done it with drastically different styles and schemes over the years.  The year in and year out consistency of being no worse than a semi-finalist is more remarkable to me than the 9 titles.   

It's hard to climb the mountain, but even harder to remain on top.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 11, 2008, 03:56:44 PM
Another discussion that I often have come playoff time with folks around the office that aren't big D3 fans is the difference between D1 and D3. 

IMHO, the difference between the top and bottom of D1 isn't nearly as big as the difference in D3. 

Even the bottom worst D1 team/conference has athletes that aren't that much smaller, slower, weaker than the top teams.  As a complete team/unit, the bottom of D1 might be 60% physically of the top D1 schools. 

However at D3, I think the difference between the top and bottom is HUGE and more like 10% of the best.   The top of D3 is very, very good.  But the bottom of D3 is very, very weak.

As an example from sending some and following other local HS players off to college, the difference between kids that get scholarships to the Big Ten schools isn't that much different than the ones that end up at the MAC schools like Bowling Green, Toledo, Akron, etc. 

But by contrast there is a HUGE difference between the HS kids that can play at Mount Union versus those that play at Oberlin, Hiram, etc. 

I coached a few great HS players at my small, local high school that were just a couple inches too short or 20 pounds too light to get D1 looks that ended up at Mount, Baldwin Wallace, John Carroll, etc.  And these kids didn't see the field until their junior or senior seasons in college. 

I also had a few kids that barely made the starting lineup in HS go to some of the lesser NCAC schools and start as underclassmen.  One kid in particular wasn't a starter for me in until his senior year in HS but he was a 4 year starter at left guard at Hiram.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2008, 04:08:01 PM
HSCoach, I would definitely agree with you about that at the Division I level IF you are only talking about the FBS, which is half the size of Division III. When you include all of Division I, including the FCS, then you have a sample size very similar to Division III. And the difference between Florida and, say, Iona, is in my mind similar to the difference between Mount Union and Principia.

Just my $.02.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 11, 2008, 05:03:04 PM
Sorry for the confusion.  In my mind I'm still thinking in terms of D1 and D1-AA.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2008, 06:10:21 PM
I still wonder how good Hardin-Simmons is.  Can we imply "coattails" from their games with UMHB.

They went toe-to-toe with UMHB, and UMHB had the better kicking game and special teams, in both games!  :)

UMHB is clearly hitting the "second season" in stride, so they may be jelling after the Southern Oregon game forced the team to "re-tool".

I want to return to this discussion after UMHB finishes its season.




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on December 11, 2008, 08:44:39 PM
Quote from: theaprof on December 11, 2008, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 11, 2008, 07:58:53 PM
all wheaton fans, i will be joining saintsfan in alliance and also would like to meet even more great d3 posters from around the country.  i will be making the trip to the wing warehouse to join the muc fans on friday, hope to see you all there.  maybe saints and i will have to referee any disagreements as we have no dog in the fight. ;)

I doubt there will be any need for a referee--we really are a pretty friendly bunch.  I know the invite has been given, but let me repeat that ALL are welcome at the Wing Warehouse on West State Street in Alliance--things will start around 9:00.  We'd love to get the opportunity to chat with any Wheaton fans or for that matter any fans of DIII football.  Wear your team colors and look for the rowdy bunch dressed in purple!!!

Rumor has it that as long as we talk, at least a little bit, about the finer points of broadcasting (or anything else business related) that hscoach is buying at least one round.  I'm sure that whatever he does for the Raider fans, he would be glad to do for the Thunder fans as well--except Thundermom--but April, we'd love to meet you!!

I extend the invitation to join us to all on this board!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Small but Slow on December 11, 2008, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 11, 2008, 03:56:44 PM
Another discussion that I often have come playoff time with folks around the office that aren't big D3 fans is the difference between D1 and D3. 

IMHO, the difference between the top and bottom of D1 isn't nearly as big as the difference in D3. 

Even the bottom worst D1 team/conference has athletes that aren't that much smaller, slower, weaker than the top teams.  As a complete team/unit, the bottom of D1 might be 60% physically of the top D1 schools. 

However at D3, I think the difference between the top and bottom is HUGE and more like 10% of the best.   The top of D3 is very, very good.  But the bottom of D3 is very, very weak.

As an example from sending some and following other local HS players off to college, the difference between kids that get scholarships to the Big Ten schools isn't that much different than the ones that end up at the MAC schools like Bowling Green, Toledo, Akron, etc. 

But by contrast there is a HUGE difference between the HS kids that can play at Mount Union versus those that play at Oberlin, Hiram, etc. 

I coached a few great HS players at my small, local high school that were just a couple inches too short or 20 pounds too light to get D1 looks that ended up at Mount, Baldwin Wallace, John Carroll, etc.  And these kids didn't see the field until their junior or senior seasons in college. 

I also had a few kids that barely made the starting lineup in HS go to some of the lesser NCAC schools and start as underclassmen.  One kid in particular wasn't a starter for me in until his senior year in HS but he was a 4 year starter at left guard at Hiram.   

Coach- That's exactly what I've been telling people here in FL about DIII football for years.  The difference between a MAC and a Mt. Union recruit is as little as an inch or two, a tenth in the 40, or a senior year injury.
The reality is that there is a DIII school that fits almost any level of football player.  Even some hs coaches here steer their marginal players toward junior colleges out of lack respect for the level of competition at the better programs. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 11, 2008, 11:37:35 PM
Quote from: theaprof on December 11, 2008, 08:44:39 PM
I extend the invitation to join us to all on this board!


Sounds good Theaprof.  I have your Cortland merchandise in the mail for you.  Wear it with pride!   8)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 12, 2008, 12:46:52 AM
Augie6/USee-

My apologies to both of you.  I did not intend for the debate to become personal.  I also did not intend to disparage Wheaton/NCC, and my argument should have been worded more diplomatically.

Gordon Mann elucidated far more clearly the point I was trying to get across with his "Power Tiers", and it appears to have been well received.  It's definitely worth reading.  I may have him compose my points from now on.

Good luck to Wheaton with The Mount.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 13, 2008, 12:53:14 PM
It appears that MUC is pouring it on thick and heavy right now.  24-0 with 6 min to go to the half!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 13, 2008, 01:20:49 PM
Looks like Wheaton intercepted my post and used it for motivation.  They mustered up 10 points in 6 minutes to close the half.  31-10 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2008, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: hscoach on December 11, 2008, 03:56:44 PM
Another discussion that I often have come playoff time with folks around the office that aren't big D3 fans is the difference between D1 and D3. 

IMHO, the difference between the top and bottom of D1 isn't nearly as big as the difference in D3. 

Even the bottom worst D1 team/conference has athletes that aren't that much smaller, slower, weaker than the top teams.  As a complete team/unit, the bottom of D1 might be 60% physically of the top D1 schools. 

However at D3, I think the difference between the top and bottom is HUGE and more like 10% of the best.   The top of D3 is very, very good.  But the bottom of D3 is very, very weak.

As an example from sending some and following other local HS players off to college, the difference between kids that get scholarships to the Big Ten schools isn't that much different than the ones that end up at the MAC schools like Bowling Green, Toledo, Akron, etc. 

But by contrast there is a HUGE difference between the HS kids that can play at Mount Union versus those that play at Oberlin, Hiram, etc. 

I coached a few great HS players at my small, local high school that were just a couple inches too short or 20 pounds too light to get D1 looks that ended up at Mount, Baldwin Wallace, John Carroll, etc.  And these kids didn't see the field until their junior or senior seasons in college. 

I also had a few kids that barely made the starting lineup in HS go to some of the lesser NCAC schools and start as underclassmen.  One kid in particular wasn't a starter for me in until his senior year in HS but he was a 4 year starter at left guard at Hiram.   

Here's my concern I guess with D-III...it's not so much the Top tier teams against the lower teir teams, although there are a lot of unseemly blowouts at our level.

The thing that worries me is that the VERY elite teams (MUC, UWW, etc.) just don't lose, even to other great teams. Where are the upsets? MUC has had basically a half of one decent challenge. They're in the national semis and up 31-10 at the half? And look at the stats: Muc has 356 total yards, 178 rushing and 178 passing. They're averaging 8 yards a rush and 10 yards per pass. And this against one of the best teams in the game?

Last season, they weren't even challenged untill the NC game. Whitewater's had some close ones, but again, where are the upsets of the truly elite teams? Does Curry beating Ithaca in the playoffs even matter in the larger scale with an MUC waiting in the wings?

I really hope MHB pulls off the win (They're up 7-5 now). The same NC game four years in a row? Here's a few questions:

1) Is that good for D-3? I'm not blaming anyone, just asking an honest question. This is the only game the national audience sees. Is it good to see the same teams again and again?

2) Does it say more about the MUC's and UWW's or the rest of the teams? Does it create an idea that, with the exception of 3-4 teams, they're all just playing for pride, because no-one's good enough to crash the party? I know MUC is sort of a unique case, but I mean, there's almost nothing quite like these guys in sport. Not only the sheer number of victories, but the amount of their wins. And it's year after year. Now you've got a mini-dynasty in UWW. Even back when you had IC, Augustana, Wittenberg winning back in the day, there was nothing like this aura of unbeatableness (Yes I made that up)

It'd be interesting to see some statistical analysis of the amount of upsets in D3 football. How many times this decade has a Top 10 team lost to a lower ranked team? To an unranked team? How many different teams do we see in the "Final 4", the NC game? I'd be very interested to see it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 13, 2008, 02:29:01 PM
It seems a lot more common at the D3 level, Bombers.  I don't have an explanation for it.

The most amazing run I witnessed was Hobart lacrosse in D3.  They won every D3 lacrosse title in history until their final season against Nazareth.  And since then, Salisbury has taken the reigns.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 13, 2008, 03:46:00 PM
Cortland has had 3 straight NC appearances in Lacrosse.  Just thought I'd chime in as it was in the alumni paper I got in the mail today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on December 13, 2008, 04:12:04 PM
 Here's my concern I guess with D-III...it's not so much the Top tier teams against the lower teir teams, although there are a lot of unseemly blowouts at our level.

The thing that worries me is that the VERY elite teams (MUC, UWW, etc.) just don't lose, even to other great teams. Where are the upsets? MUC has had basically a half of one decent challenge. They're in the national semis and up 31-10 at the half? And look at the stats: Muc has 356 total yards, 178 rushing and 178 passing. They're averaging 8 yards a rush and 10 yards per pass. And this against one of the best teams in the game?

Last season, they weren't even challenged untill the NC game. Whitewater's had some close ones, but again, where are the upsets of the truly elite teams? Does Curry beating Ithaca in the playoffs even matter in the larger scale with an MUC waiting in the wings?

I really hope MHB pulls off the win (They're up 7-5 now). The same NC game four years in a row? Here's a few questions:

1) Is that good for D-3? I'm not blaming anyone, just asking an honest question. This is the only game the national audience sees. Is it good to see the same teams again and again?

2) Does it say more about the MUC's and UWW's or the rest of the teams? Does it create an idea that, with the exception of 3-4 teams, they're all just playing for pride, because no-one's good enough to crash the party? I know MUC is sort of a unique case, but I mean, there's almost nothing quite like these guys in sport. Not only the sheer number of victories, but the amount of their wins. And it's year after year. Now you've got a mini-dynasty in UWW. Even back when you had IC, Augustana, Wittenberg winning back in the day, there was nothing like this aura of unbeatableness (Yes I made that up)

It'd be interesting to see some statistical analysis of the amount of upsets in D3 football. How many times this decade has a Top 10 team lost to a lower ranked team? To an unranked team? How many different teams do we see in the "Final 4", the NC game? I'd be very interested to see it
[/quote]

I share your concern for the competition and have a similar observation to add.  When Lycoming played the first time for the NC they lost in OT in a close game.  The second time they were steamrolled by MUC in a game that was only close in the first quarter.  Here is an anecdote from that NC game.  One of the stars of the Lycoming O-line was on the opening kickoff, all pumped up from the locker room and the pregame hype.  He tore off down the field looking to hit someone and gave the first guy he saw his best shot - the guy just laughed at him.  He told me he knew they were doomed from that moment on.

How did D III change so radically in 7 years?  The 1997 Lycoming team was a group of studs that during their four years never lost a regular season game in the MAC and won the conference four years in a row.  Yet they got smoked by MUC. 

My point is not sour grapes - I am long over that - it is about parity.

What we are witnessing, particularly with MUC, is something odd.  It reminds me somewhat of UCLA's hold on basketball years ago. 

I have no solutions but share the same thoughts as previously contributed.

And please, do not bother to write some mindless tripe about how they will be on top until someone knocks them off.  That is so tired.

There must be something systemically aligned that permits this sort of dynasty besides coaching.

The question I think that is relevant is does this hurt the national D III program?  Can anything be done to alter the current situation?

Call me a Lutes fan!

ATB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2008, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: Lyco80 on December 13, 2008, 04:12:04 PM
I share your concern for the competition and have a similar observation to add.  When Lycoming played the first time for the NC they lost in OT in a close game.  The second time they were steamrolled by MUC in a game that was only close in the first quarter.  Here is an anecdote from that NC game.  One of the stars of the Lycoming O-line was on the opening kickoff, all pumped up from the locker room and the pregame hype.  He tore off down the field looking to hit someone and gave the first guy he saw his best shot - the guy just laughed at him.  He told me he knew they were doomed from that moment on.

How did D III change so radically in 7 years?  The 1997 Lycoming team was a group of studs that during their four years never a lost regular season game in the MAC and won the conference four years in a row.  Yet they got smoked by MUC. 

My point is not sour grapes - I am long over that - it is about parity.

What we are witnessing, particularly with MUC, is something odd.  It reminds me somewhat of UCLA's hold on basketball years ago. 

I have no solutions but share the same thoughts as previously contributed.

And please, do not bother to write some mindless tripe about how they will be on top until someone knocks them off.  That is so tired.

There must be something systemically aligned that permits this sort of dynasty besides coaching.

The question I think that is relevant is does this hurt the national D III program?  Can anything be done to alter the current situation?

Call me a Lutes fan!

ATB

Well, I for one, said that I didn't think the NCAA did anyone favors by moving MUC to an easier region, although I suspect it didn't matter much in the end.

Let me be clear: MUC and UWW deserve all the success they've achieved and will continue to achieve. They're well run/coached programs and are getting the benefits. This is not to call them out. This is simpy to foster some intelligent commentary on an unintentional consequence of the current state D-III football

Division III sports always fly under the radar, such is the nature of the beast. But, they do get one chance a year to share the national spotlight, in the Stagg Bowl. As we on these boards always know, there are a great number of excellent teams and players in the nation. And it's a shame that none of them get national attention. It's a shame that these other teams can't break through. Look at a guy like Pierre Garcon. He's free to do whatever he wants, and obviously, the move to MUC paid off for his career, so in a sense, more power to him. That being said, it would have been nice to see him stay at the Wick and see what he could have done for that program instead of being just yet another stud at MUC. Again, no-one's blaming anyone, just stating an opinion.

Some of it is institutional. Not all schools place the same emphasis on football that an MUC/UW-W do. Some of it is geographical. Certain states and areas of the country have greater football talent in the local high schools and such, the colleges have more ground to work with. The NY Times article on Kimic is a geat example of that Some could be economical. And of course, it's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Great teams attract the best players, which keeps them great

I don't really think there's a lot anyone can do about it. My question would be this: What's responsible for the meteoric rise? Why now is MUC/UW-W getting such unstoppable players? I'm sure some of it is coaching etc, but is that really all? MUC is going for what, their 10th NC in 14 seasons? What's their regular season record in that span?

It seems like the only team to get in their way in UW-W, and now they're so good it's like the scene in "Roadhouse" where Patrick Swayze is convincing Kelly Lynch he can save the town from their unstoppable overlord, Brad Wesley. She asks him: "Yes, but who's going to save the town from you?"

Again, to make sure I'm not misunderstood: Good for MUC and UW-W for continuing to win constantly. But I do think it would help the game if other teams were successful.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on December 13, 2008, 04:45:14 PM
If you want to see a dynasty, look at Kenyon Swimming:

The Lords have won the past 29 consecutive Division III national championships (http://athletics.kenyon.edu/x27441.xml)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 13, 2008, 04:54:02 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on December 13, 2008, 04:45:14 PM
If you want to see a dynasty, look at Kenyon Swimming:

The Lords have won the past 29 consecutive Division III national championships (http://athletics.kenyon.edu/x27441.xml)

Alright, sweet. Good find man. So MUC's not the only unstoppable force out there.

Again, not trying to be critical of MUC, although my Karma rating would seem to indicate people think I am being that way. Just curious as to the thoughts of people
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 13, 2008, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on December 13, 2008, 04:45:14 PM
If you want to see a dynasty, look at Kenyon Swimming:

The Lords have won the past 29 consecutive Division III national championships (http://athletics.kenyon.edu/x27441.xml)

They've been drowning the competition.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on December 13, 2008, 06:55:59 PM
Or, maybe just putting a few discreet sinkers in their opponents' speedos when their backs were turned?

ATB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hammond5 on October 06, 2009, 08:14:58 PM
***NJAC--TCNJ Lions' football***

Players' defend gutsy fourth-down calls in the aftermath of the Lions' 1st loss

http://tcnjlionsfootball.com/2009/10/06/players/

NCAA attendance reports suggest Lions' fan base disinterested in TCNJ football

http://tcnjlionsfootball.com/2009/10/06/attendance/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2009, 03:19:57 PM
New Regional Rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/04/ncaa-regional-rankings-take-2/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 04, 2009, 04:24:40 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2009, 03:19:57 PM
New Regional Rankings:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/04/ncaa-regional-rankings-take-2/


Seeing the West region with powerhouses like St Johns, Linfield and three time consecutive Stagg Bowl participant UWW as 1,2 and 3 respectively, suddenly makes me completely change my perspective of whether the East Region teams are deserving of a #1 seed in the East Region play-off bracket when the East lines up Alfred, Albright and DVC.

Its like putting Roger Clemens, Mike Mussina and Andy Pettite against....well, you get the point.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2009, 07:54:31 PM
I think this is the point that we've been trying to make all along. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2009, 08:21:33 PM
Fron the West Region Playoff Board...

Quote from: sju56321 on November 04, 2009, 06:11:32 PM
Best guess for "west" region- with the assumption that UWW moves "North."

1. SJU
2. Central
3. Linfield
4. Monmouth
5. UST
6. Cal Lu
7. Coe
8. Nathcon AQ

North:

1. UWW
2. Wittenberg
3. Mount St. Joseph
4. Case Western Reserve
5. Illinois Wesleyan
6. Wabash
7. Trine
8. Otterbein


That leaves 2 Pool C bids...UMHB and someone from the East.

MUC has been moved "East".

I will offer this bracket for the South.

SOUTH REGION
1. Wesley                        Pool B
2. Hampden-Sydney ODAC
3. Thomas More Pres AC  (Thomas More beats HCAC Pool A MSJ on Nov 14th and moves into #2 seed.)
4. Huntingdon Pool B
5. Mississippi College  ASC
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor Pool C
7. Centre 7-1 7-1  SCAC
8. North Carolina Wesleyan   USA South

#1 Wesley vs #8 NCWC
#4 Huntingdon vs #5 Miss College

#2 TMC versus #7 Centre,
#3 HSC versus #6 UMHB


Dickinson (or JHU or F&M)  CC Pool A  moved east.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2009, 08:24:14 PM
I have these 8 slots left.

#1 MUC

#8 Dickinson (or F&M or JHU)

E8, NJAC, MAC, LL, NEFC and a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 04, 2009, 09:35:31 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already

And don't forget, Montclair will be 9-1. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2009, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 04, 2009, 09:35:31 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already

And don't forget, Montclair will be 9-1. ;)

But then they'd take Kean's place and thus this statement is completely inconsequential. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2009, 09:38:53 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already

I've got Alfred beating IC and UC to finish 9-0...

I've got DVC beating Albright and Widener to finish up 9-1...

I've got Albright losing to DVC but beating Leb Valley to finish up 9-1 as well...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 04, 2009, 09:46:39 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 09:38:53 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already

I've got Alfred beating IC and UC to finish 9-0...

I've got DVC beating Albright and Widener to finish up 9-1...

I've got Albright losing to DVC but beating Leb Valley to finish up 9-1 as well...

my bad pbr misread it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 04, 2009, 11:15:01 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2009, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 04, 2009, 09:35:31 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already

And don't forget, Montclair will be 9-1. ;)

But then they'd take Kean's place and thus this statement is completely inconsequential. 

The point I was making is that Montclair S/B on the list. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 05, 2009, 02:29:33 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 04, 2009, 11:15:01 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2009, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 04, 2009, 09:35:31 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 04, 2009, 08:51:13 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2009, 08:43:32 PM
Best case scenario for the East Region...

1.) MUC 10-0 (Pool A, OAC)
2.) AU 9-0 (Pool A, E8)
3.) DVC 9-1 (Pool A, MAC)
4.) Kean 9-1 (Pool A, NJAC)
5.) Albright 9-1 (Pool C, MAC)
6.) Springfield 8-1 (Pool C, E8)
7.) Curry 9-2 (Pool A, NEFC)
8.) Union 8-2 (Pool A, LL)

not bad but your off on 2/3 seeds record either au will be 8-1 or dvc 8-2...dvc has lost to wesley already

And don't forget, Montclair will be 9-1. ;)

But then they'd take Kean's place and thus this statement is completely inconsequential. 

The point I was making is that Montclair S/B on the list. ;D

It's 6 in one hand or a half dozen in the other to me...

Either Kean or MSU, it doesn't matter as long as the NJAC winner is 9-1...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 06, 2009, 06:32:38 PM
Would be nice if an East team could get #1.  Would also be interesting if Wesley got it.  I completely understand if MUC gets it, but man does that get old fast.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 06, 2009, 06:55:02 PM
New blood would be nice.....MUC makes it interesting too though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 06, 2009, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 06, 2009, 06:55:02 PM
New blood would be nice.....MUC makes it interesting too though.

The more dlip thinks about this, to an extent, he isn't getting as worked up about the importation thing as before. It would be an amazing day for the East if MUC went down (not that he thinks it will happen...****!). Plus the more he looks into it, if Union takes the LL title there is a possibility they may be heading out to Alliance to face those ****in nasty Raiders. Great, ****ing great, opportunity for the Union players and coaching staff. Wesley would be interesting as well. Curious how Del Val and others would fare against them in the playoffs. Lots to think about as these next two weeks play the **** out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...

I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...



I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

Over an 8-2 Cortland?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 06, 2009, 10:20:11 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...

I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

I think we'd all be surprised if Fisher didn't make the tourney regardless of how they finish up. 

I'm really diggin the rebranded SJFF82!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 06, 2009, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...



I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

Over an 8-2 Cortland?

Sarcasm...

Look it up...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:34:45 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...



I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

Over an 8-2 Cortland?

Sarcasm...

Look it up...

Yeah we didn't have that in our textbooks, but we probably need our own link for the Cortaca smack to begin, glad you started it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2009, 12:20:20 AM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...

I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?


yes they should. although MUC and Salisbury don't count as in-region games, so you have through the criteria a bit before you get to that. I believe that's true.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 07, 2009, 07:20:02 AM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:34:45 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...



I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

Over an 8-2 Cortland?

Sarcasm...

Look it up...

Yeah we didn't have that in our textbooks, but we probably need our own link for the Cortaca smack to begin, glad you started it!

You guys had coloring books for sarcasm???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 07, 2009, 04:28:32 PM
The East teams are terrible.  They should ship everyone in from the North and South this year.  Brutal.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 07, 2009, 04:33:52 PM
... and I assume with Albright and Alfred's embarassing stomping today, any argument against welcoming back Mount Union to the East comes to an end. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 07, 2009, 04:35:02 PM
That's a given.  Hopefully someone steps up and at least presents a challenge to them.  (DelVal?)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 07, 2009, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...



I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

Over an 8-2 Cortland?

uhm...was just screwin around...but since you mention it....I guess we will see how Cort measures up against IC, who Fisher crushed.  Fisher also crushed Springfield on the road.  I mean...SJF kinda has two pretty impressive road wins in the East...dont know the answer, but how many other East teams have two road monkeystomps against solid teams....I know, IC sucks right???  Hmmmm...they did monkeystomp #1.   Man, if SJF could only play special teams as good as a 4th grade pop warner team, they would be at least 6-2 right now and undefeated in the E8....ok, smite me now....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2009, 10:11:45 PM
Maybe my column this week will be how bad the east has freakin gacked it this year. Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 07, 2009, 10:25:00 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2009, 10:11:45 PM
Maybe my column this week will be how bad the east has freakin gacked it this year. Jesus Christ.

I would advise against it!  I get criticized so much for saying it on here, I can't imagine what will happen if you write it in an article! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XDragon59 on November 08, 2009, 01:28:54 AM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 07, 2009, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: XDragon59 on November 06, 2009, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 06, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 06, 2009, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2009, 05:45:35 PM
What happens if Springfield loses to SJF this weekend do they drop to #8 any comments??

Almost zero chance of a 2 loss team in the East grabbing a pool C...



I think SJF should get a strong look at Pool C if they win out.  They would be 6-3 having lost to MUC...makes em 7-2, having lost to Salisbury on the road when they led 6-3 at half, makes em 7.5-1.5 and having only lost to Alfred by 3 on a FG with 7 secs to go against AU's backup QB and RB, makes 'em 8.2-.8....I mean should they really be penalized for their record?

Over an 8-2 Cortland?

uhm...was just screwin around...but since you mention it....I guess we will see how Cort measures up against IC, who Fisher crushed.  Fisher also crushed Springfield on the road.  I mean...SJF kinda has two pretty impressive road wins in the East...dont know the answer, but how many other East teams have two road monkeystomps against solid teams....I know, IC sucks right???  Hmmmm...they did monkeystomp #1.   Man, if SJF could only play special teams as good as a 4th grade pop warner team, they would be at least 6-2 right now and undefeated in the E8....ok, smite me now....

Yeah Fisher would be next in line...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 02:03:44 AM
QuoteMaybe my column this week will be how bad the east has freakin gacked it this year.

Relative to what?  Here's how the best team in the East has finished the last few years.

2008: Mount Union beats Cortland  41-14 in quarterfinals.  Mount wins the title.
2007: Mount Union beats St. John Fisher 52-10 in the quarterfinals.  Mount loses to UW-Whitewater in the Stagg.
2006: Mount Union beats St. John Fisher 26-14 in the semifinals. Mount wins the title.
2005: Mount Union beats Rowan 19-7 in the semifinals.  Mount wins the title.
2004: Linfield beats Rowan 52-0 in the semifinals.  Linfield wins the title.
2003: St. John's beats RPI 38-10 in the semifinals.  St. John's wins the title.

In recent years the best team in the east has fallen to the eventual national champion.  Some years it happens in the semis and some years in the quarters.  While the latter is obviously one round earlier, there are only 8 teams left at that point and, if you are stuck playing Mount Union, your chances aren't very good whatever week it is.

At this point I don't see how anyone could project this year to be much different.  The region doesn't have one dominant team, but frankly those dominant teams of years past have met the same fate that likely awaits this year's best team.

If you want to focus on the lack of highly ranked East teams, that's fine, too.  But the East isn't alone in seeing teams that were highly rated at one point fall off the radar.  If you look at the Preseason Top 25, you'll find teams from all over the country who won't meet preseason hopes - Hardin Simmons and Christopher Newport in the South; Wheaton and Otterbein in the North; UW-Stevens Point and Wartburg in the West.

There's plenty to focus on this week in the East region besides lamenting whether the East region team meets potential demise in in the first or second week of December against Mount Union.  As Keith McMillan pointed out in his first column, if you just focus on whether a team can win the Stagg Bowl, you're missing a lot of really great stories that define the season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2009, 02:06:28 AM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2009, 10:11:45 PM
Maybe my column this week will be how bad the east has freakin gacked it this year. Jesus Christ.

I suspect this is a throwaway line but if you are really hard up for story ideas, look at Springfield or Delaware Valley.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 02:08:14 AM
Or how close Kean is to winning a conference title.  Or how Montclair has turned around its season after the opening loss.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 08, 2009, 07:01:09 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 02:08:14 AM
Or how close Kean is to winning a conference title.  Or how Montclair has turned around its season after the opening loss.

I'm one of the bigger Montclair fans out there, but they still have me scratching my head. The D is good, but the O I can't figure out. We lost our running game the past (4) weeks and Fisher at QB, well you know my feelings. Beating Rowan was huge. Maybe they sort of gave up after (2) conference loses, but I'll take it anyway. Yet we are 8-1 with a chance to give Kean a little pay back from last year and maybe go dancing. Thats why we play the games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 08, 2009, 08:10:55 AM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2009, 10:11:45 PM
Maybe my column this week will be how bad the east has freakin gacked it this year. Jesus Christ.

I wouldn't quite put it like that...

You could say how schizophrenic the East is or something along those lines...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..



Very well said tecmo, +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 09:30:09 AM
The problem we are all afflicted with is that we assume linear upward progression, which is just much less frequently the case than thought.  That's why everyone talks about Utica and Rochester taking a step up and competing (Rochester's been a perennial potential sleeper for the entire decade).    
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..



Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 08, 2009, 09:40:11 AM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 09:30:09 AM
The problem we are all afflicted with is that we assume linear upward progression, which is just much less frequently the case than thought.  That's why everyone talks about Utica and Rochester taking a step up and competing (Rochester's been a perennial potential sleeper for the entire decade).    

UR and UC are the Houston Texans of the LL and E8...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 08, 2009, 09:55:32 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 02:08:14 AM
Or how close Kean is to winning a conference title.  Or how Montclair has turned around its season after the opening loss.

Kean last won the NJAC outright in 1987.  They tied Trenton State College (College of NJ) in 1994 for the title.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 11:05:29 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 08, 2009, 09:40:11 AM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 09:30:09 AM
The problem we are all afflicted with is that we assume linear upward progression, which is just much less frequently the case than thought.  That's why everyone talks about Utica and Rochester taking a step up and competing (Rochester's been a perennial potential sleeper for the entire decade).    

UR and UC are the Houston Texans of the LL and E8...

But, UofR should be given credit for their scheduling.  I think I read that they had the 4th toughest schedule in the country (these are all driven by OOC since conference OWP will balance out ultimately).  They played Case Western, SJF, AU in their OOC. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 08, 2009, 12:31:32 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 09:30:09 AM
The problem we are all afflicted with is that we assume linear upward progression, which is just much less frequently the case than thought.  That's why everyone talks about Utica and Rochester taking a step up and competing (Rochester's been a perennial potential sleeper for the entire decade).    

It's just a basic thing in college... you get people for four years. Sure, the better you do, the better your recruiting gets, but it is that much harder to build a core, and then build around that. Look at IC's QB situation.... we all thought Grastorf was the answer, but Juvan was just a little better, played til he was a senior, now this senior year is Grastorf's only shot and it's been blown.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 12:38:34 PM
QuoteI think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount.

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago.

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..

Well said and I respect that point of view.  

But I'd offer a couple counter points.  The teams you mentioned may be having down years but others - Alfred, Del Val, Kean, Leb Val - are not.  They are in the East and, though they may not have as many message board posters or as rich a history as some others you mention, there's plenty of good story lines there.  The MAC has a chance to have wins against champions of the Centennial (JHU), ODAC (Randolph Macon), Liberty League (Susquehanna), NJAC (Montclair or Kean) and NEFC (Curry).  So maybe for one year the power has just shifted to a different part of the region.

I do agree that there are no power teams in the East and view the playoffs as pretty wide open.  I think there is more parity within conferences that makes for more interesting seasons and lowers the likelihood of one team or two teams dominating the landscape.

I also agree that the East teams are a long way from beating the national powers, if we limit that group to Mary Hardin-Baylor, Mount Union and Whitewater.  But I think the same could be said for most teams in most regions with the exceptions of a few that have a lot of history to draw upon come recruiting time (St. John's, Linfield).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 01:34:13 PM
Gordon,

  Your bringing a little sanity to the discussion, which is great, but I would suggest that the problem lies in the lack of notable wins for the best teams in the region.  Right now, DelVal looks like the best team in the region and has beaten a couple of teams of note (JHU, Kean), but did lose convincingly to #5 Wesley suggesting that the top of the East's "ceiling" this year is somewhere between #10 and #20 and after that, I'm not sure a #2 is the the top 25 or so in the country.  It's not so much that the top East team can't compete with UMHB/MUC/UWW, but I'm not sure they can compete with SJU, Linfield, OAC #2 (ONU I guess, maybe Capital), top 2 in CCIW, etc.  (that group that would be #4 - say #12) that's frustrating for me personally.   

  That doesn't mean there aren't a number of fascinating stories in the East, just that we all have to dig a little deeper and consider different goals for the teams in the region.  I have no doubt that Dew's comment was a throw away one in disgust with the fact that the two undefeated teams which held the most promise on the national landscape (other than DelVal, who had the top 5 loss) got taken out to the woodshed yesterday.  I'm still interested in what happens every week across the region and check out all the scores and box scores.  The ECAC's will be interesting this year for sure. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
Pumpkin attack:

Fair point.  From that perspective, the East may be a little down this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 08, 2009, 06:08:25 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?



Well stated. +K The same goes for White-Water, MHB, Wesley and others. Open the rosters to over 100 and things may change. Rowan did very well plus Fisher, Cortland and Hobart did well, but not the staying power of Rowan. What happened to you guys this year?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 08, 2009, 06:28:15 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 08, 2009, 06:08:25 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?



Well stated. +K The same goes for White-Water, MHB, Wesley and others. Open the rosters to over 100 and things may change. Rowan did very well plus Fisher, Cortland and Hobart did well, but not the staying power of Rowan. What happened to you guys this year?

Rowan doesn't have close to the resources a Mount Union has.  As a private school, they can pretty much do what they want.

The problem with Rowan... they are trying to figure out recruiting and keeping the four year kid and remain nationally viable.  Can't run the spread w/o receivers that can separate/or run great routes against good secondaries, and you must have a very good QB.

Defense is very fast but light up front... if the offense can't move the ball, they are toast by the 4th qtr.

QB was good enough... receivers were talented but young, leaving the defense vulnerable.

The past few years Accorsi had some talented Freshman that couldn't handle the school work or team discipline.  I think the core of the team is very good, but a couple of consistent skill players away from challenging deep in the playoffs.  We also need more beef on the d-line.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2009, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 06:28:15 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 08, 2009, 06:08:25 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?



Well stated. +K The same goes for White-Water, MHB, Wesley and others. Open the rosters to over 100 and things may change. Rowan did very well plus Fisher, Cortland and Hobart did well, but not the staying power of Rowan. What happened to you guys this year?

Rowan doesn't have close to the resources a Mount Union has.  As a private school, they can pretty much do what they want.

The problem with Rowan... they are trying to figure out recruiting and keeping the four year kid and remain nationally viable.  Can't run the spread w/o receivers that can separate/or run great routes against good secondaries, and you must have a very good QB.

Defense is very fast but light up front... if the offense can't move the ball, they are toast by the 4th qtr.

QB was good enough... receivers were talented but young, leaving the defense vulnerable.

The past few years Accorsi had some talented Freshman that couldn't handle the school work or team discipline.  I think the core of the team is very good, but a couple of consistent skill players away from challenging deep in the playoffs.  We also need more beef on the d-line.

JT the Wisconsin Schools seem to do a good job with d3 football.  Of course NJ and NY do a lot better than MA does too.

And Mt. Unions facilities are not that impressive.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 08, 2009, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2009, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 06:28:15 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 08, 2009, 06:08:25 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?



Well stated. +K The same goes for White-Water, MHB, Wesley and others. Open the rosters to over 100 and things may change. Rowan did very well plus Fisher, Cortland and Hobart did well, but not the staying power of Rowan. What happened to you guys this year?

Rowan doesn't have close to the resources a Mount Union has.  As a private school, they can pretty much do what they want.

The problem with Rowan... they are trying to figure out recruiting and keeping the four year kid and remain nationally viable.  Can't run the spread w/o receivers that can separate/or run great routes against good secondaries, and you must have a very good QB.

Defense is very fast but light up front... if the offense can't move the ball, they are toast by the 4th qtr.

QB was good enough... receivers were talented but young, leaving the defense vulnerable.

The past few years Accorsi had some talented Freshman that couldn't handle the school work or team discipline.  I think the core of the team is very good, but a couple of consistent skill players away from challenging deep in the playoffs.  We also need more beef on the d-line.

JT the Wisconsin Schools seem to do a good job with d3 football.  Of course NJ and NY do a lot better than MA does too.

And Mt. Unions facilities are not that impressive.

The field has been around since 1917, but that ain't the program.  They have all the modern scouting and film study tools.  That was what I'm talking about.  Then you make it cheaper than a state school education, while having a great head coach that is the AD... and I'd call that a formula.

How many Ithaca football players are paying under 15K per year for school?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2009, 06:42:05 PM
I dont know what Ithaca football players pay to go to Ithaca.  Do you know what Mt. Union players pay to go there?

Film and scouting tools are important, but film is film, and a lot of good d3 football programs have grad assistants that break it down on film however the head coaches want it.  Mt. Union is going to have 2 camera angles like any other good d3 program is going to have.  Unless you know something I don't.

The facilities I was talking about was the football offices, weight room etc.  I took a quick tour of Mt. Union when I was there and I didnt see anything out of the ordinary.  Im sure they blow Buff States facilities out of the water, but they dont have what Cortland, SJF, Union or RPI has thats for sure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2009, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?

Uhm, I think you forgot 10 national championships. That feeds on itself.

I don't know what the discount rate is at Mount Union or how to find it, but as always, students loans have to be paid back. This I know.

MTU has an indoor facility, JU, that is better than anything I've seen in D-III.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 08, 2009, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2009, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?

Uhm, I think you forgot 10 national championships. That feeds on itself.

I don't know what the discount rate is at Mount Union or how to find it, but as always, students loans have to be paid back. This I know.

MTU has an indoor facility, JU, that is better than anything I've seen in D-III.

The National Championships definitely help...and so does the indoor facility.

Student loans have to be paid back...but "found" grants for certain students are helpful, and can sway a family/athlete towards a school.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2009, 06:52:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2009, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?

Uhm, I think you forgot 10 national championships. That feeds on itself.

I don't know what the discount rate is at Mount Union or how to find it, but as always, students loans have to be paid back. This I know.

MTU has an indoor facility, JU, that is better than anything I've seen in D-III.

I didn't see that.  A turf field?  

I kind of snuck around the buildings there and saw a good size weight room but no field house
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 08, 2009, 07:01:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2009, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: JT on November 08, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: RJ on November 08, 2009, 10:03:42 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 08, 2009, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: tecmobowler on November 08, 2009, 09:17:08 AM
I think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount. 

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago. 

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..




Very well said tecmo, +k

After yesterdays results dlip is felling very frustrated with the "level" of play in the east here in 09. You make a great point that many of us have been around and thought, at one point, we were getting closer. Yet this year it seems very obvious to dlip that we as a region are just not there. dlip thinks the way you put it in your post makes perfect sense and is a respectful way to describe how many of us feel. dlip does not want to sit here and hammer the east for what good will it do? Yet, when looking in the mirror, we see Del Val, who is probably now our top team, who we already know could not hang with Wesley. Yes dlip knows Del Val has improved, but ****, so has Wesley. Let's just ****in hope the level of football grows in 10' and works it way a bit closer to the national stage.

dlippiel,

First with D 3 football we don't have the luxury of injury reports and accurate information on whose playing and even the stats are not 100% accurate. That being said, it creates a difficult environment to pick games winners. (It is also why D3 is a great take on any given day anything can happen)

Union beats Ithaca both teams at full strength early in the season, Ithaca loses to Springfield 5 starters out both defensive ends (93 & 95 DNP) vs. a rush orient team.  Merchant Marine beats Susquehanna (QB Palazzi does not play) Union losses to Muhlenberg after the game it was determined Connolly QB had a mild concussion.  Ithaca beats Alfred (93 & 95) play 8 tackles, 4 TFL and 1 sack, how do you measure the impact of the non-skill position with factors that don't show up on the stat sheet. For example the IC DE maybe drew 2 or 3 holding penalties that – 30 yards and can kill drives. That what makes this so hard to predict and why they play the games.

As for MT Union consistency, they have more depth than most D3 school I understand they have 100 on a freshman team, a JV squad and 100+ on the varsity unit. How are their academic standards vs. all the other programs? In my opinion it's not apples to apples, it's like a D1 non scholarship program trying to beat a BCS program, they don't have the same resources and guidelines.

1) Roughly 20% of the men at Mount Union are football players. 

2) The average financial aid packages brings the tuition cost down under your average DIII State school in NJ.

3) Great head coach who's also the AD

4) All the modern technical bells and whistles.

Pretty much a formula for success.  No?

Uhm, I think you forgot 10 national championships. That feeds on itself.

I don't know what the discount rate is at Mount Union or how to find it, but as always, students loans have to be paid back. This I know.

MTU has an indoor facility, JU, that is better than anything I've seen in D-III.

Obviously the 10 titles... which has incubated a more favorable atmosphere.  Much of this aid does not have to be paid back.

I'm just pointing out the "MOUNTain" opponents have to climb.  I've always been a David vs. Goliath kind of guy anyway.  I'm just not going to pretend that the they are some little school making good. It is a powerhouse dynasty... the aw shucks PR doesn't fly anymore.  

Kehres is the nicest, most straight up guy you'll meet, but he's created the gift that keeps and giving as long as he's there.  I think his son is few fries short of a happy meal. Mount is Mount as long as Larry is still calling the shots.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 08, 2009, 07:03:39 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2009, 06:42:05 PM
I dont know what Ithaca football players pay to go to Ithaca.  Do you know what Mt. Union players pay to go there?

Film and scouting tools are important, but film is film, and a lot of good d3 football programs have grad assistants that break it down on film however the head coaches want it.  Mt. Union is going to have 2 camera angles like any other good d3 program is going to have.  Unless you know something I don't.

The facilities I was talking about was the football offices, weight room etc.  I took a quick tour of Mt. Union when I was there and I didnt see anything out of the ordinary.  Im sure they blow Buff States facilities out of the water, but they dont have what Cortland, SJF, Union or RPI has thats for sure.

He's got NFL style robotic cameras operated by joystick from the pressbox.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 08, 2009, 07:41:13 PM
JT... don't really see how you come fresh off defending the Yankees to insinuating that Mount has an unfair advantage....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 09, 2009, 10:15:09 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 08, 2009, 07:41:13 PM
JT... don't really see how you come fresh off defending the Yankees to insinuating that Mount has an unfair advantage....

Never mentioned unfair anywhere in my posts.  I'm just telling it like is.  They don't break any rules, and most graduate. Mount does have an advantage, but you'll get the occasional special club that comes along and beats them.

I respect them, put them No. #1 on my ballot, but would like to see two teams in this year's Stagg Bowl that aren't from Alliance Ohio. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 09, 2009, 12:41:13 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 08, 2009, 12:38:34 PM
QuoteI think most that most here know that very few teams over the past ten years could hang with Mount Union.  I understand the idea behind pointing out the sillyness of posters lamenting over a season that will inevitably end to Mount, when in the past, our years have.... ended to Mount.

With that said, I think a lot of the frustration in here boils down to the level of football being played.  Most on here have been around long enough to compare the current level of play to a good number of years.  Just off the top of my head, it's clear that teams such as Ithaca, Cortland, RPI, Hobart, Union, Fisher, Springfield, Brockport, Rowan... are down significantly compared to teams not too many years ago.

While the past and current teams may still all add up to losses to Mount, there's something to be said for quality football being played.  It's fun to watch your school have playmakers on offense and defense, have an explosive offense, a shutdown defense, an incredible wideout, a QB that can make all the throws.. and there just hasn't been too much of that this.  There's a certain level of disappointment as I believe many around here just a short time ago, including myself, thought a number of teams out of the East were just about ready to compete on the national level.  Five or six years later, we seem a very long way from that..

Well said and I respect that point of view.  

But I'd offer a couple counter points.  The teams you mentioned may be having down years but others - Alfred, Del Val, Kean, Leb Val - are not.  They are in the East and, though they may not have as many message board posters or as rich a history as some others you mention, there's plenty of good story lines there.  The MAC has a chance to have wins against champions of the Centennial (JHU), ODAC (Randolph Macon), Liberty League (Susquehanna), NJAC (Montclair or Kean) and NEFC (Curry).  So maybe for one year the power has just shifted to a different part of the region.

I do agree that there are no power teams in the East and view the playoffs as pretty wide open.  I think there is more parity within conferences that makes for more interesting seasons and lowers the likelihood of one team or two teams dominating the landscape.

I also agree that the East teams are a long way from beating the national powers, if we limit that group to Mary Hardin-Baylor, Mount Union and Whitewater.  But I think the same could be said for most teams in most regions with the exceptions of a few that have a lot of history to draw upon come recruiting time (St. John's, Linfield).

Dew Crew is the only poster looking for a "story line",and I suspect he was just joking/lamenting...Everyone else is looking for good high quality football in the East, not story lines.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 09, 2009, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 08, 2009, 01:34:13 PM
Gordon,

  Your bringing a little sanity to the discussion, which is great, but I would suggest that the problem lies in the lack of notable wins for the best teams in the region.  Right now, DelVal looks like the best team in the region and has beaten a couple of teams of note (JHU, Kean), but did lose convincingly to #5 Wesley suggesting that the top of the East's "ceiling" this year is somewhere between #10 and #20 and after that, I'm not sure a #2 is the the top 25 or so in the country.  It's not so much that the top East team can't compete with UMHB/MUC/UWW, but I'm not sure they can compete with SJU, Linfield, OAC #2 (ONU I guess, maybe Capital), top 2 in CCIW, etc.  (that group that would be #4 - say #12) that's frustrating for me personally.   

  That doesn't mean there aren't a number of fascinating stories in the East, just that we all have to dig a little deeper and consider different goals for the teams in the region.  I have no doubt that Dew's comment was a throw away one in disgust with the fact that the two undefeated teams which held the most promise on the national landscape (other than DelVal, who had the top 5 loss) got taken out to the woodshed yesterday.  I'm still interested in what happens every week across the region and check out all the scores and box scores.  The ECAC's will be interesting this year for sure. 


oops....you already said it...and better  +k when I get it....back ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 09, 2009, 01:11:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2009, 02:06:28 AM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 07, 2009, 10:11:45 PM
Maybe my column this week will be how bad the east has freakin gacked it this year. Jesus Christ.

I suspect this is a throwaway line but if you are really hard up for story ideas, look at Springfield or Delaware Valley.

didn't think it would cause such a problem ;)  but yes, this was a throwaway line. Sorry nobody got the sarcasm.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 01:34:03 PM
I have to ask...with Mount Union almost certainly on its way over to the East...who is going to grab the pool C's...or will we only have one Pool C like last year when they brought in Randolph-Macon (complete joke that they did this) and Mount Union?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BAK4LVC on November 09, 2009, 01:51:40 PM
I can't see anyone from the East outside of maybe the Albright/Lebanon Valley winner being able to get a Pool C berth.  Even that winner could get squeezed depending how the Centennial plays out, since Dickinson could end up being a consideration.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 01:34:03 PM
I have to ask...with Mount Union almost certainly on its way over to the East...who is going to grab the pool C's...or will we only have one Pool C like last year when they brought in Randolph-Macon (complete joke that they did this) and Mount Union?

It makes sense to me ... They brought in RM because they were possibly the worst team in the field and thus set them against the best team in the field.  Obviously they see the East as weak, why give them another Pool C? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:18:21 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 01:34:03 PM
I have to ask...with Mount Union almost certainly on its way over to the East...who is going to grab the pool C's...or will we only have one Pool C like last year when they brought in Randolph-Macon (complete joke that they did this) and Mount Union?

It makes sense to me ... They brought in RM because they were possibly the worst team in the field and thus set them against the best team in the field.  Obviously they see the East as weak, why give them another Pool C? 

Personally...if you are going to base making the playoffs based on your regional record only, then why turn around and bring two out of region teams to the region?  I think its bad form.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 09, 2009, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

So do you have a problem with the NCAA B-Ball tournament then?

Because that's what the NCAA is doing with this tournament.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:44:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 09, 2009, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

So do you have a problem with the NCAA B-Ball tournament then?

Because that's what the NCAA is doing with this tournament.


Ummm...Division I hoops is a bit different then Division III football...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 09, 2009, 03:59:32 PM
For those who bought this year's kickoff, take a look at the federal data source I cited in the feature on financial resources.  You'll find some disparities that will probably surprise you, even among the top teams. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2009, 04:25:26 PM
Ok - here's a SWAG of the East, I mean MUC, bracket (and "seeds"):

8 Pool C (LVC) - going with Leb Val with a 9-1 record and only ~310 mile trip to Alliance, OH

vs.

1 MUC ODAC Champ - NCAA will follow same pattern, nuff said

5 NEFC Champ (Curry) - like the Colonels over the Maine Maritime.  That loss to Bridgewater earlier in the season is the Red Herring IMO

vs.

4 NJAC Champ (Kean) - I like Kean to beat MSU this weekend and host a first round game.   Kean will likely be "seeded lower" to eliminate the possibility of a re-match against DVC in Round 2 (DVC beat the Cougs 30-17 in Wk 2).  That said I could easily see Union or Alfred hosting Curry (Alfred maybe less likely given the mileage from Milton to Alfred is 440). 

Assuming both MUC and Kean win - Round 2 is only a ~415 mile trip from Union, NJ to Alliance on the I-80.

6 E8 Champ (Alfred) - I like the Saxons over Utica and they hold a head-to-head tie-breaker over SJFC (note - I don't know exact E8 rulebook, so this is a guess). 
vs.

3 LL Champ (Union) - I like the "Dutchies on the leff hand side" to prevail at home vs Susquatch and be "rewarded" for an undefeated league record with a home game.  Trip from Alfred to Shocktown is about 270 miles and would match up "rival conferences", "battle for Upstate NY", etc

7 Pool C (Dickinson) - This one is anyone's guess but I am going with Dickinson if they win out (and finish 9-1 and would be co-Champs of the CC, but) if JHU wins out, the Red Devils would lose a Pool A due to a head-to-head tiebreaker with JHU - once again note I am not a CC rulebook expert.  JHU has already played and lost to DVC and Carlisle, PA (Dickinson's home base) is a short 132 miles from Doylestown, PA.

vs.

2 DVC MAC Champ - The Aggies, clearly the best "eastern" team (from the most consistent/"best" conference this season) in the bracket, get a good shot to advance to the national quarterfinals and the winner of the Union (216 miles) vs. Alfred (292) game is not too far away.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 05:00:38 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

Maybe so, but most people don't want to hear that you are worse than you usually are when you've basically just had to show up at most of your games to win.  (Other than the abnormally close 28-21 game)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 09, 2009, 05:03:44 PM
East is down AND Mount is down? Wait.... maybe ALL of DIII is down this year?? Maybe all of FOOTBALL?!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 09, 2009, 05:06:56 PM
Tgp: that's probably as good of a bracket as I've seen. The one thing I see is that union vs Alfred matchup switching. If union beats susq and goes undefeated in the LL they have to get the 3 seed IMO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2009, 05:08:21 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 09, 2009, 05:06:56 PM
Tgp: that's probably as good of a bracket as I've seen. The one thing I see is that union vs Alfred matchup switching. If union beats susq and goes undefeated in the LL they have to get the 3 seed IMO.

Good point - I've fixed it on the prior page.  k+
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 09, 2009, 05:06:56 PM
Tgp: that's probably as good of a bracket as I've seen. The one thing I see is that union vs Alfred matchup switching. If union beats susq and goes undefeated in the LL they have to get the 3 seed IMO.

At first I was going to vehemently disagree that Union should be ahead of Alfred...  But yeah, I think you're right.  Especially if you compare their matchups with Ithaca... 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2009, 05:27:09 PM
Commentary from the CC board re the likelihood of two CC teams making it to the dance, still I would think a co-champion of a league would make the NCAAs (esp at 9-1, Hobart has made it in as a Pool C/co-league champ, but Bart has a decent record in first round games...), but I could be wrong:

Quote from: BTEXPRESS on November 09, 2009, 05:09:52 PM
CC Unfortunately, I think  if Dickinson wins this week against Ursinus and finishes at 9-1 they will be looking at the ECAC playoffs along with F & M if they finish 8-2. In my opinion, the winner of the Albright vs LVC game will probably get in as the second team from the MAC. The CC champ needs to win at least a first round game in the NCAA's to give the conference some future credibility. Ask Muledaddy his thoughts on the subject. The Mules were a very good team the past few seasons but had to play Wesley in the first round and for whatever reason, they did not match up well with them. If Muhlenberg played any other team  from the South region, other than Wesley I believe they win. It hurts the CC's reputation that Hopkins got beat by Delaware Valley earlier this year. In many people's minds, the MAC is stronger than the CC. I am not so sure. The CC has gotten stronger from top to bottom and if there were a MAC vs CC challenge, I'd pick the CC to come out on top. The problem you have is that you will never have a team from the CC that can make it to Salem. The entrance requirements, tuition and other factors contribute to that reality. If a CC team could win two rounds of the playoffs, it would be a successful year in my opinion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: BTEXPRESS on November 09, 2009, 05:37:11 PM
TGP, Do I think Dickinson deserves to get into the NCAA playoffs, absolutely. They have a high powered offense and their only loss was to Johns Hopkins when their All American wide receiver, Pat O Connor was out hurt with a bad MCL. He returned to the field this past week. I am just not sure how the selection committee feels about the Centennial Conference's past playoff performance. I hope you are right and the Red Devils do get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2009, 06:01:20 PM
Quote from: BTEXPRESS on November 09, 2009, 05:37:11 PM
TGP, Do I think Dickinson deserves to get into the NCAA playoffs, absolutely. They have a high powered offense and their only loss was to Johns Hopkins when their All American wide receiver, Pat O Connor was out hurt with a bad MCL. He returned to the field this past week. I am just not sure how the selection committee feels about the Centennial Conference's past playoff performance. I hope you are right and the Red Devils do get a Pool C bid.

A 9-1 league co-champ would seem qualified IMO but that's up to the Committee
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn! ;D

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' :P).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. >:(]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn! ;D

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' :P).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. >:(]
And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn! ;D

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' :P).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. >:(]
And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm

Yeah, and last year, the ONLY year that the 'North' had neither Mount Union (since before they became MOUNT UNION) or UWW, Pool C bid #7 seed Wheaton (of the CCIW) won the 'North' (inevitably losing in the semis to 'you-know-who').
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 09, 2009, 06:55:55 PM
Man, that JC 02 reference brings back bad memories. 

Hobart played so terribly in that game it wasn't funny.  I am not saying that JCU wasn't the better team, but that outcome really didn't reflect the quality of that particular Bart squad.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 07:40:16 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 09, 2009, 06:55:55 PM
Man, that JC 02 reference brings back bad memories. 

Hobart played so terribly in that game it wasn't funny.  I am not saying that JCU wasn't the better team, but that outcome really didn't reflect the quality of that particular Bart squad.



As did the Brockport team...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn! ;D

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' :P).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. >:(]
And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm

A game 7 years ago should have no impact for this year.  Great story...but irrelevent to the discussion.  Besides...who cares if you have to "deal" with MUC in the regular season (as no one seems to get dinged for losing to them) if they get shipped to another region and you won't see them again until the semis or finals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2009, 12:37:48 AM
Quote from: TGP on November 09, 2009, 04:25:26 PM
Ok - here's a SWAG of the East, I mean MUC, bracket (and "seeds"):

8 Pool C (LVC) - going with Leb Val with a 9-1 record and only ~310 mile trip to Alliance, OH

vs.

1 MUC ODAC Champ - NCAA will follow same pattern, nuff said

5 NEFC Champ (Curry) - like the Colonels over the Maine Maritime.  That loss to Bridgewater earlier in the season is the Red Herring IMO

vs.

4 NJAC Champ (Kean) - I like Kean to beat MSU this weekend and host a first round game.   Kean will likely be "seeded lower" to eliminate the possibility of a re-match against DVC in Round 2 (DVC beat the Cougs 30-17 in Wk 2).  That said I could easily see Union or Alfred hosting Curry (Alfred maybe less likely given the mileage from Milton to Alfred is 440).  

Assuming both MUC and Kean win - Round 2 is only a ~415 mile trip from Union, NJ to Alliance on the I-80.

6 E8 Champ (Alfred) - I like the Saxons over Utica and they hold a head-to-head tie-breaker over SJFC (note - I don't know exact E8 rulebook, so this is a guess).  
vs.

3 LL Champ (Union) - I like the "Dutchies on the leff hand side" to prevail at home vs Susquatch and be "rewarded" for an undefeated league record with a home game.  Trip from Alfred to Shocktown is about 270 miles and would match up "rival conferences", "battle for Upstate NY", etc

7 Pool C (Dickinson) - This one is anyone's guess but I am going with Dickinson if they win out (and finish 9-1 and would be co-Champs of the CC, but) if JHU wins out, the Red Devils would lose a Pool A due to a head-to-head tiebreaker with JHU - once again note I am not a CC rulebook expert.  JHU has already played and lost to DVC and Carlisle, PA (Dickinson's home base) is a short 132 miles from Doylestown, PA.

vs.

2 DVC MAC Champ - The Aggies, clearly the best "eastern" team (from the most consistent/"best" conference this season) in the bracket, get a good shot to advance to the national quarterfinals and the winner of the Union (216 miles) vs. Alfred (292) game is not too far away.


TGP -

I have to disagree with your seedings.  Just because teams are Pool C teams does not mean they will be seeded below conference champions.  In fact, this year I'd wager that the East will see some elevated Pool C seedings because of the relative strength of conference champions we'll be seeing.  Kean, Curry, Alfred and Albright have better records and better quality of losses this season than Union by most people's standards.  Also, the Salisbury game will not completely be factored out of the equation.  The best Union stands to receive, should the team beat Susquehanna on Saturday, is a 7 seed under current circumstances.  This is verified by last week's East Region Rankings.

[EDIT: Also, distances in rounds past the First Round are irrelevant.  There is no flight restriction in further rounds, meaning that the distances at that point are not in play when the seedings are being made.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 10, 2009, 10:14:33 AM
A couple notes:

* The NCAA has been willing to pair non-conference opponents who played each other earlier in the year in the first round.  If Del Val and Kean both win, I think they both get to host a game anyway.  But if Del Val slips up, a trip back to Union, NJ isn't out of the question.  Or a rematch between DVC and JHU could happen.

* If you want to assess Dickinson's chance as a Pool C candidate, remember the way the process works.  The regional committees forward their best Pool C candidate for consideration with the best Pool C candidates from the other regions.  We'll see what the new regional rankings bring, but it looks like Dickinson is second in line behind Mary Hardin-Baylor.  If Hampden-Sydney loses the AQ, the Red Devils could slip to third.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bigdvs on November 10, 2009, 10:29:19 AM
So Frank more like,

1)Mt Union
2)Del Val
3)Kean
4)Curry
5)Alfred
6)Dickinson
7)Union
8)Leb Val

actually from what I understand that almost makes the most sense at this point right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 10, 2009, 10:42:40 AM
1) MUC
2) DVC
3) NJAC Rep (Kean/Montclair)
4) Alfred
5) DSB
6) Pool C import
7) LL Rep
8) MAC runner up (pool C)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 'gro on November 10, 2009, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 10, 2009, 10:42:40 AM
1) MUC
2) DVC
3) NJAC Rep (Kean/Montclair)
4) Alfred
5) Curry
6) Pool C import
7) LL Rep
8) MAC runner up (pool C)

Curry still has to play the NEFC championship game, but if you want to crown'em then crown their ass!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 10, 2009, 11:02:52 AM
Quote from: Groseph G. Groberson III on November 10, 2009, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 10, 2009, 10:42:40 AM
1) MUC
2) DVC
3) NJAC Rep (Kean/Montclair)
4) Alfred
5) Curry
6) Pool C import
7) LL Rep
8) MAC runner up (pool C)

Curry still has to play the NEFC championship game, but if you want to crown'em then crown their ass!

gro please stick to LLPP rules re: Curry  afterall twas you that crowned them as "dem spice boyz" correct?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 11:08:17 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 10, 2009, 10:42:40 AM
1 ) MUC
2 ) DVC
3 ) NJAC Rep (Kean/Montclair)
4 ) Alfred
5 ) Curry
6 ) Pool C import
7 ) LL Rep
8 ) MAC runner up (pool C)

This is roughly what Pep and I informally agreed upon when we ran into each other at the Dollar General last night.  We figured that Alfred would fall below Del Valley and Kean in this week's regional rankings and that Montclair would leap the Saxons if they beat Kean.  Alfred could be really helped if Fisher moves into the rankings and Springfield doesn't fall out, but could also drop considerably if both teams go unranked.

I wonder what the bracket would look like if Alfred collapses and Fisher gets the AQ?  Do they to MUC right out of the gate?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 10, 2009, 11:11:59 AM
I would think they would get MUC right out of the gate. If you told me MUC and SJF would play twice this season I would at least thought it would be in the East Finals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

They are probably the only team that could make a dent...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 10, 2009, 12:10:46 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

They are probably the only team that could make a dent...

Linfield could be the sleeper pick at this point
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 10, 2009, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 10, 2009, 11:02:52 AM
Quote from: Groseph G. Groberson III on November 10, 2009, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 10, 2009, 10:42:40 AM
1) MUC
2) DVC
3) NJAC Rep (Kean/Montclair)
4) Alfred
5) Curry
6) Pool C import
7) LL Rep
8) MAC runner up (pool C)

Curry still has to play the NEFC championship game, but if you want to crown'em then crown their ass!

gro please stick to LLPP rules re: Curry  afterall twas you that crowned them as "dem spice boyz" correct?

Edited for accuracy!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 10, 2009, 01:08:57 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 10, 2009, 11:11:59 AM
I would think they would get MUC right out of the gate. If you told me MUC and SJF would play twice this season I would at least thought it would be in the East Finals.

If SJF gets the AQ (and it's a long shot at best) I agree that they would and should get MUC right out of the gate...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.



I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 10, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2009, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2009, 06:06:09 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Did you miss the discussion we had on like 3 of the boards last week?  The brackets are not officially based on Geography.  They are named by the Number 1 seed (Like, the Mount Union Bracket)  -- But the brackets are also made so that they produce the least possible airplane flights, so they end up being geographically sensible. 

I saw the discussion...but that doesn't mean I agree with it.  I just think that it's bad form.  If you keep sending over Mount Union to the East...how do we necessarily know that the East is the weakest bracket?  Afterall...hardly anyone ever beats MUC...so to simply say we should beat MUC to get to the Final 4 is kind of a stupid arguement.

MUC is only 20-something miles from Pennsylvania.  We in the 'North' have had to deal with them for all but a couple of years - it's time you guys step up and take your turn! ;D

[Besides, in 2007 when MUC went 'East", UWW replaced them in the 'North' - we were grateful for the change, until UWW won the Stagg (I believe they call that 'out of the frying pan, into the fire' :P).  Most speculation is that the 'North' will again get UWW instead of MUC, in a year when HScoach and other MUC experts think UWW may be the stronger team. >:(]
And the 2002 John Carroll team was sent as a Pool C bid #7 seed to the "East Region" and beat Hobart, Muhlenberg and Brockport State.  This is not a new occurrence.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/bracket.htm

Yeah, and last year, the ONLY year that the 'North' had neither Mount Union (since before they became MOUNT UNION) or UWW, Pool C bid #7 seed Wheaton (of the CCIW) won the 'North' (inevitably losing in the semis to 'you-know-who').

Perfect example of why moving teams around for the sake of the perceived 4 #1's is dangerous.  Wheaton a #7 wins a watered down North bracket but ends up losing to MUC anyway.  Meanwhile an otherwise worthy #1 team in the East (certainly worthy of beating Wheaton) has to get by MUC to even get to the Final Four. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 10, 2009, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.



I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 10, 2009, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.



I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".

Hahaha...HScoach may be the only guy in the past ten years to call MUC an underdog...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2009, 01:58:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

I'll take that 1st round match up.... but the 2nd round match up in Alliance would be a "learning experience"

Alfred can return the trip we took up there in 1995 --- by coming to Kentucky
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 10, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2009, 01:58:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

I'll take that 1st round match up.... but the 2nd round match up in Alliance would be a "learning experience"

Alfred can return the trip we took up there in 1995 --- by coming to Kentucky

The only problem with Kentucky though is that it's in Kentucky. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 02:51:05 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 10, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2009, 01:58:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

I'll take that 1st round match up.... but the 2nd round match up in Alliance would be a "learning experience"

Alfred can return the trip we took up there in 1995 --- by coming to Kentucky

The only problem with Kentucky though is that it's in Kentucky. 

I can attest to that...though Louisville is pretty kick a$$...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2009, 02:51:38 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 10, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
The only problem with Kentucky though is that it's in Kentucky.  

sh!t son.... don't believe all you hear.  10 minutes south of the Ohio River in KY isn't that bad.  

Thats like me basing my opinoin of Upstate NY from 10 days spent in Greene, NY.


EDIT:  Its Greene NY where Raymond Corp is located... duh
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 02:54:14 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2009, 02:51:38 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 10, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
The only problem with Kentucky though is that it's in Kentucky.  

sh!t son.... don't believe all you hear.  10 minutes south of the Ohio River in KY isn't that bad.  

Thats like me basing my opinoin of Upstate NY from 10 days spent in Raymond, NY.

Louisville and Lexington are good...the rest of the state...they can have it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 10, 2009, 03:51:56 PM
I spent a couple of days in Paduca inadvertently.  Had some surprisingly good meals, although the joint was a bit religious for me.  Trying to catch a connector to Memphis to get back to NYC, the plane (a little prop type one) had a flat, so we were stuck there for a while.  I started chatting with one of the stewardesses (either Northwest or Continental, I can't recall) and she told me that they didn't have any repair people there so someone had to drive down from Memphis.  In the meantime, one of the airport employees offered the pilot a can of fix a flat.  I'm dead serious about this.

Heading to Louisville for the Hobart - Bellarmine lacrosse game in April.  Looking forward to a lot of bourbon and there's an awesome restaraunt I've been to there a couple of times called Jack Fry's.  Phenomenal food, some of the best in my past business travels (aka on the client, so no real spending constraints). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 04:52:12 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 10, 2009, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.



I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".

Hahaha...HScoach may be the only guy in the past ten years to call MUC an underdog...

I understand how foriegn that may sound to an outsider, but Mount hasn't always the best team on paper.  MUC was an underdog to Whitewater in 2005.  UWW had just beaten defending champion Linfield on the road and MUC had lost to Ohio Northern in the regular season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 10, 2009, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

Listen, dlip has been critical of the U and the LL as a whole here in 09. Yet the ****in NEFC winner getting a seed 3 spots higher than the ****in LL winner seems ****in ludicrous to dlip. It better be about ****in mileage because it sure as **** isn't about strength of conference.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 10, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 10, 2009, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

Listen, dlip has been critical of the U and the LL as a whole here in 09. Yet the ****in NEFC winner getting a seed 3 spots higher than the ****in LL winner seems ****in ludicrous to dlip. It better be about ****in mileage because it sure as **** isn't about strength of conference.

So you're complaining about Curry being a #5 seed in a hypothetical "South" bracket?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2009, 08:06:06 PM
I'd heartily disagree with K-Mack's brackets here.  There's gotta be a better way to deal with the East's lacking of bracket fillers than to create a three-bracket amalgamation since the two brackets he's showing all seem to contain East, South and North teams mixed together. 

I think it's overthinking the process -- The North and South have too many teams while the East does not have enough.  The East likely has six teams.  The North team named Mount Union comes over, leaving one slot.  Some North teams are geographic fits with the West Bracket -- less so than the South.  So the overage in the North can be dealt with in the West if any overage exists.  If the South has a ninth team, then one team can shift up into the "East" bracket to complete it. 

I think K-Mack's brackets take the "distance doesn't matter in the 2nd and 3rd rounds" too far.  The NCAA still looks at Division III as more of a regional system at the bracketing level -- the problem is that the NCAA wants to ensure that the top four teams get #1 seeds (unless geographically impossible to pull off) and will work the other teams around those seeds when possible.  Then, regionalization is key to at least keep the travel scenarios sensible.  Yes, there may be a flight that occurs because of a 2nd or 3rd round situation where the teams just happen to be too far (there is not regulation per se against this).  However, I think the NCAA would frown upon being blatant about intermixing regions to THAT degree.

The reason I say this is that there is a balance between Regions and number of Pool A bids per region.  The North, West and South each have 6 Pool A bids, while the East has 5.  If this ever became out of balance because of new conferences taking new Pool A bids (or the disbandment of current Pool A conferences), I'd guess that the "Regions" would be shifted accordingly. 

Long story short -- I think the regional nature of things is still intact to a degree without the original rigidity we saw when the fields were first expanded in the 90s.  That's why I have trouble with the mixing up of teams K-Mack did.  However, we'll see for sure on Sunday what happens...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 10, 2009, 08:07:40 PM
I hope so Frank, because K-mack's bracket looks like he just put the names in a hopper and pulled them out randomly, then seeded them.  

Edit:  I guess I Jumped the gun based on Frank's post.  My apologies. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 10, 2009, 08:25:16 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2009, 08:06:06 PM
I'd heartily disagree with K-Mack's brackets here.  There's gotta be a better way to deal with the East's lacking of bracket fillers than to create a three-bracket amalgamation since the two brackets he's showing all seem to contain East, South and North teams mixed together. 

I think it's overthinking the process -- The North and South have too many teams while the East does not have enough.  The East likely has six teams.  The North team named Mount Union comes over, leaving one slot.  Some North teams are geographic fits with the West Bracket -- less so than the South.  So the overage in the North can be dealt with in the West if any overage exists.  If the South has a ninth team, then one team can shift up into the "East" bracket to complete it. 

I think K-Mack's brackets take the "distance doesn't matter in the 2nd and 3rd rounds" too far.  The NCAA still looks at Division III as more of a regional system at the bracketing level -- the problem is that the NCAA wants to ensure that the top four teams get #1 seeds (unless geographically impossible to pull off) and will work the other teams around those seeds when possible.  Then, regionalization is key to at least keep the travel scenarios sensible.  Yes, there may be a flight that occurs because of a 2nd or 3rd round situation where the teams just happen to be too far (there is not regulation per se against this).  However, I think the NCAA would frown upon being blatant about intermixing regions to THAT degree.

The reason I say this is that there is a balance between Regions and number of Pool A bids per region.  The North, West and South each have 6 Pool A bids, while the East has 5.  If this ever became out of balance because of new conferences taking new Pool A bids (or the disbandment of current Pool A conferences), I'd guess that the "Regions" would be shifted accordingly. 

Long story short -- I think the regional nature of things is still intact to a degree without the original rigidity we saw when the fields were first expanded in the 90s.  That's why I have trouble with the mixing up of teams K-Mack did.  However, we'll see for sure on Sunday what happens...



frank not that kmack needs defending but  some people are taking his brackets out of context....did anyone read the post he did when he put these brackets out?  here is a snippet of the post...


Just for fun, since the Pool C thread seems to be doubling as this year's playoff speculation thread, I'm going to make a field of 32 with matchups I could potentially see. I don't plan to spend more than two minutes thinking about this, I just want to throw something out there that might or (more likely) might not happen.

Feel free to change one Week 11 result, one Pool C selection or both, or just re-mix and match the bracket in a way you potentially see it falling.


did anyone else read he didnt spend more than 2 minutes thinking about this? cut the guy some slack...some people are taking this bracket as the gospel and not realizing he just threw  a quick bracket  out there  WITHOUT  taking more than 2 minutes to think about it...come on peeps take it easy
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2009, 08:31:31 PM
I apologize to K-Mack if that was the context -- I don't get to read all the boards here because of my other duties.  However, the discussion I provided concerning intermixing of regions is unchanged and was what I was focusing on more in my post.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 10, 2009, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 10, 2009, 08:25:16 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2009, 08:06:06 PM
I'd heartily disagree with K-Mack's brackets here.  There's gotta be a better way to deal with the East's lacking of bracket fillers than to create a three-bracket amalgamation since the two brackets he's showing all seem to contain East, South and North teams mixed together. 

I think it's overthinking the process -- The North and South have too many teams while the East does not have enough.  The East likely has six teams.  The North team named Mount Union comes over, leaving one slot.  Some North teams are geographic fits with the West Bracket -- less so than the South.  So the overage in the North can be dealt with in the West if any overage exists.  If the South has a ninth team, then one team can shift up into the "East" bracket to complete it. 

I think K-Mack's brackets take the "distance doesn't matter in the 2nd and 3rd rounds" too far.  The NCAA still looks at Division III as more of a regional system at the bracketing level -- the problem is that the NCAA wants to ensure that the top four teams get #1 seeds (unless geographically impossible to pull off) and will work the other teams around those seeds when possible.  Then, regionalization is key to at least keep the travel scenarios sensible.  Yes, there may be a flight that occurs because of a 2nd or 3rd round situation where the teams just happen to be too far (there is not regulation per se against this).  However, I think the NCAA would frown upon being blatant about intermixing regions to THAT degree.

The reason I say this is that there is a balance between Regions and number of Pool A bids per region.  The North, West and South each have 6 Pool A bids, while the East has 5.  If this ever became out of balance because of new conferences taking new Pool A bids (or the disbandment of current Pool A conferences), I'd guess that the "Regions" would be shifted accordingly. 

Long story short -- I think the regional nature of things is still intact to a degree without the original rigidity we saw when the fields were first expanded in the 90s.  That's why I have trouble with the mixing up of teams K-Mack did.  However, we'll see for sure on Sunday what happens...



frank not that kmack needs defending but  some people are taking his brackets out of context....did anyone read the post he did when he put these brackets out?  here is a snippet of the post...


Just for fun, since the Pool C thread seems to be doubling as this year's playoff speculation thread, I'm going to make a field of 32 with matchups I could potentially see. I don't plan to spend more than two minutes thinking about this, I just want to throw something out there that might or (more likely) might not happen.

Feel free to change one Week 11 result, one Pool C selection or both, or just re-mix and match the bracket in a way you potentially see it falling.


did anyone else read he didnt spend more than 2 minutes thinking about this? cut the guy some slack...some people are taking this bracket as the gospel and not realizing he just threw  a quick bracket  out there  WITHOUT  taking more than 2 minutes to think about it...come on peeps take it easy


PBR,
I agree.  I almost jumped into the fray, but figured I may want to see what the original context was prior to inserting foot into mouth.  I was having difficulty even differentiating what would be considered an East, North or South driven grouping in K-Mack's scenerio.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 11, 2009, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 10, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 10, 2009, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Here is K-Mack's first stab at where the East teams will land (from the Pool C board):

Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Okay, here's a hastily assembled suggestion:

1 MUC
8 Union

4 Thomas More
5 Alfred

3 Case Western Reserve
6 MSJ

2 Wittenberg
7 Trine
------------
1 Wesley
7 LV/Albright

3 H-SC
8 NCWC/Averett

4 Kean
5 Curry

2 Del Val
6 Johns Hopkins

Listen, dlip has been critical of the U and the LL as a whole here in 09. Yet the ****in NEFC winner getting a seed 3 spots higher than the ****in LL winner seems ****in ludicrous to dlip. It better be about ****in mileage because it sure as **** isn't about strength of conference.

So you're complaining about Curry being a #5 seed in a hypothetical "South" bracket?

Good call Upstate, dlip didn't look hard enough at the post and regional/Bracket set-up. He ****ed up with foot in mouth here, his bad ;).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 02 Warhawk on November 11, 2009, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 04:52:12 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 10, 2009, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.



I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".

Hahaha...HScoach may be the only guy in the past ten years to call MUC an underdog...

I understand how foriegn that may sound to an outsider, but Mount hasn't always the best team on paper.  MUC was an underdog to Whitewater in 2005.   UWW had just beaten defending champion Linfield on the road and MUC had lost to Ohio Northern in the regular season.

that might be a stretch...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 11, 2009, 02:09:49 PM
Final Regional Rankings that we'll get to see publicly are now available:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/

Springfield does not fall far and remains above Union and Maine Maritime, which both stay at #10 and #9 respectively.  Interesting set of rankings.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 11, 2009, 06:28:01 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 11, 2009, 02:09:49 PM
Final Regional Rankings that we'll get to see publicly are now available:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/

Springfield does not fall far and remains above Union and Maine Maritime, which both stay at #10 and #9 respectively.  Interesting set of rankings.

Now here is where dlip will bitch Upstate!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 11, 2009, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 11, 2009, 06:28:01 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 11, 2009, 02:09:49 PM
Final Regional Rankings that we'll get to see publicly are now available:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/

Springfield does not fall far and remains above Union and Maine Maritime, which both stay at #10 and #9 respectively.  Interesting set of rankings.

Now here is where dlip will bitch Upstate!

And Upstate's not going to say anything this time...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins


Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 12, 2009, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on November 11, 2009, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 04:52:12 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 10, 2009, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2009, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: JT on November 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 09, 2009, 03:41:56 PM
We've heard that before...


Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 09, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 09, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
While MUC is still very good, this isn't the offense juggernaught the East Region has seen the last couple years with Kmic at TB.  If there was ever a year the traditional east teams would be competitive and/or beat Mount, this would be it.   

If the east is a balanced and average as you guys make it out to be, you've missing a great opportunity to slay the King.


Yeah...judging by the fact that only one game was pretty much within 3 TD's...I am sure that MUC is worried.


I'm not saying the Raiders aren't the favorite in the East by a large margin this year, just that this is as vulnerable as they've been in a while.  If the '06 Fisher team was facing this MUC team the outcome might have been different as a 26-14 point loss. 

I very well could be wrong, but I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year.

Ummm...you could probably replace that comment with "I don't think there is any serious competition to Mount in the East this year."

Some team will step up... maybe U Dub Dub.

Almost all Mount folks, myself included, feel that Mount will be hard pressed to keep up with Whitewater this season.  UWW is absolutely loaded with 21 of 22 starters back from last year's Stagg.    Anything short of national championship should be considered a major upset for UWW this season.



I don't buy it...you can't plead underdog when you are 146-5 over the past 10+ seasons...

MUC can "plead" anything they want at 146-5 over the past 10 seasons...


On behalf of the Cardinals, if by some miracle they play MUC in the NCAA this year....I enter a plea of "No Contest".

Hahaha...HScoach may be the only guy in the past ten years to call MUC an underdog...

I understand how foriegn that may sound to an outsider, but Mount hasn't always the best team on paper.  MUC was an underdog to Whitewater in 2005.   UWW had just beaten defending champion Linfield on the road and MUC had lost to Ohio Northern in the regular season.

that might be a stretch...

That is not a stretch...that is crazy.  When you are 146-5...you are never the underdog...not when you are six years deep into that run.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins


Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

I'm thinking the only reason that Alfred is ahead of those teams is due to current SoS.  Doing a quick inclusion of the teams each will play this Saterday (and not factoring in the changes from the games played by the teams faced earlier in the season by those three teams) I think Kean would jump Alfred on SoS with a win, but Montclair would not.

Kean is currently at .489 OWP and adding in Montclair's 8-1 record would move them to about .529, Montclair will move from .455 to .498 and Alfred will drop from .516 to .508 when accounting for Utica's 4-5 record.  So, if SoS is used todifferentiate the one loss teams, Alfred fans will be rooting for Montclair to win the NJAC.

Also, if Maine Maritime wins, then they would have to play the NJAC winner since I think Kean, Montclair and Union are the only teams within 500 miles of Castine and Union will likely not get a home game due to their current position in the regional rankings (I guess Union could travel to Maine if the committe saw fit).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 12, 2009, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins


Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

I'm thinking the only reason that Alfred is ahead of those teams is due to current SoS.  Doing a quick inclusion of the teams each will play this Saterday (and not factoring in the changes from the games played by the teams faced earlier in the season by those three teams) I think Kean would jump Alfred on SoS with a win, but Montclair would not.

Kean is currently at .489 OWP and adding in Montclair's 8-1 record would move them to about .529, Montclair will move from .455 to .498 and Alfred will drop from .516 to .508 when accounting for Utica's 4-5 record.  So, if SoS is used todifferentiate the one loss teams, Alfred fans will be rooting for Montclair to win the NJAC.

Also, if Maine Maritime wins, then they would have to play the NJAC winner since I think Kean, Montclair and Union are the only teams within 500 miles of Castine and Union will likely not get a home game due to their current position in the regional rankings (I guess Union could travel to Maine if the committe saw fit).


I like the idea of Hopkins going to MUC.  It's about 350 miles.  If they are going to import 2 teams, like last year, let them battle it out in round 1.  I think it's fair to the 'East' teams if they do that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 12, 2009, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Terd Fergusen on November 12, 2009, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 12, 2009, 10:04:32 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2009, 09:45:10 AM
And a potential bracket from the Daily Dose for further discussion:

1. Mount Union
2. Delaware Valley
3. Alfred
4. NJAC winner
5. Lebanon Valley/Albright winner (Pool C)
6. NEFC winner
7. LL winner
8. Johns Hopkins


Flip the 3 and 4 seeds and I'd think that looks reasonable...

The Kean/Montclair winner could leapfrog AU...

I'm thinking the only reason that Alfred is ahead of those teams is due to current SoS.  Doing a quick inclusion of the teams each will play this Saterday (and not factoring in the changes from the games played by the teams faced earlier in the season by those three teams) I think Kean would jump Alfred on SoS with a win, but Montclair would not.

Kean is currently at .489 OWP and adding in Montclair's 8-1 record would move them to about .529, Montclair will move from .455 to .498 and Alfred will drop from .516 to .508 when accounting for Utica's 4-5 record.  So, if SoS is used todifferentiate the one loss teams, Alfred fans will be rooting for Montclair to win the NJAC.

Also, if Maine Maritime wins, then they would have to play the NJAC winner since I think Kean, Montclair and Union are the only teams within 500 miles of Castine and Union will likely not get a home game due to their current position in the regional rankings (I guess Union could travel to Maine if the committe saw fit).


I like the idea of Hopkins going to MUC.  It's about 350 miles.  If they are going to import 2 teams, like last year, let them battle it out in round 1.  I think it's fair to the 'East' teams if they do that.

Absolutely Terd, say it again!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 12, 2009, 05:23:33 PM
U89 said it best, if the brackets are going to get the top #4 teams as the top four seeds, like other tournaments, than it should be in bold ****ing print with no room for debate. This current system leaves a lot of room for debate and speculation regarding seeding, brackets, importation, and the possible regionalism of the brackets. Systems like this, that leave room for debate and speculation, deserve to be attacked and questioned by those who give a **** about the sport, division, and playoff situation. We ,as D3 fans see a lot of bull**** regarding rankings (AFCA poll and regional rankings) that we are accustomed to questioning things that either don't seem right or possibly hurt the teams and/or regions of play that we are passionate about.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 13, 2009, 11:14:51 AM
Hopkins playing Mount Union would also prevent the re match of an earlier game this season agaisnt DVU most likely the # 2 seed in the east. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would only like to see teams play each other if necessary in the later rounds of the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 13, 2009, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 13, 2009, 11:14:51 AM
Hopkins playing Mount Union would also prevent the re match of an earlier game this season agaisnt DVU most likely the # 2 seed in the east. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would only like to see teams play each other if necessary in the later rounds of the playoffs.

How about if you scrimmaged them?  I wouldn't mind seeing Susquehanna again!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 13, 2009, 01:12:34 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 13, 2009, 11:14:51 AM
Hopkins playing Mount Union would also prevent the re match of an earlier game this season agaisnt DVU most likely the # 2 seed in the east. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would only like to see teams play each other if necessary in the later rounds of the playoffs.

The NCAA tries to make a point of not doing conference rematches in the first round, there isn't that much of an emphasis on regular season OOC rematches...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 13, 2009, 11:05:41 PM
Sunday on a special "Selection Sunday" edition of "In the HuddLLe" at http://InTheHuddLLe.com, we will be joined by Joy Solomen, this year's NCAA Division III Football Championship Committee Chairwoman.  She will discuss the bracketing process -- from selection of the Field of 32 to the placement and seeding of those teams.

In order to make the interview more interactive, we would ask those with questions to post those questions between 3:30pm EST and 5:00pm EST to the "East Region Playoffs" message board on Sunday (following the release of the brackets).  We will not just focus on the Liberty League team in the mix or even just the East Region -- we will discuss any surprises and concerns that become evident once the brackets are released.

In addition to Chairwoman Solomen, we will interview Liberty League Commissioner Timothy Danehy, speak with the coach of the Liberty League team that wins tomorrow's League Championship Game and discuss the team the Liberty League participant will face.  Please join us starting at 7:30pm EST at http://InTheHuddLLe.com (or for the archive starting at around 10:00pm EST).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2009, 02:48:02 PM
If the current results hold true, the Following will be the Eastern Region's Playoff Representatives:

Alfred -- E8 Champ
Montclair -- NJAC Champ
Del Val -- MAC Champ
Susquehanna -- LL Champ
Maine Maritime -- NEFC Champ
Lebanon Valley -- Pool C

The other two in the "bracket" will most likely be out of region.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 14, 2009, 06:34:53 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2009, 02:48:02 PM
If the current results hold true, the Following will be the Eastern Region's Playoff Representatives:

Alfred -- E8 Champ
Montclair -- NJAC Champ
Del Val -- MAC Champ
Susquehanna -- LL Champ
Maine Maritime -- NEFC Champ
Lebanon Valley -- Pool C

The other two in the "bracket" will most likely be out of region.  

Wow, it'll be interesting to read how Albright came back from being down 23-0!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2009, 06:50:41 PM
Ithaca is going to get the Pool C bid!  Start the hype now!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 14, 2009, 07:33:33 PM
Does anyone know how the 500 mile rule works exactly?  Is it driving mileage or a linear distance?  Castine, ME is 475 miles from Alfred (http://www.geobytes.com/CityDistanceTool.htm?loadpage), but over 600 miles by car.

For the record, here are how I think the East teams will be matched up in the MUC bracket:
2 Del Valley vs. 7 Susquehanna
3 Alfred vs. 5 Albright
4 Montclair vs 6 Maine Maritime
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2009, 07:44:46 PM
It is 671 miles according to the NCAA mileage calculator.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2009, 07:46:59 PM
Maine vs. Montclair makes more sense as that is only 469 miles.  So, expect to see Maine vs. Montclair, and Alfred vs. Albright, probably ...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2009, 11:33:37 PM
Some VERY interesting Projections here:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/14/final-2009-playoff-projection/

Mary Hardin Baylor in the "East" Bracket (Rather, Bracket 1)

Albright gets moved to the Wesley Bracket. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 14, 2009, 11:37:20 PM
Maine vs MHB... that is quite the mis-match. I can't wait to see how this all shakes out on Sunday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 14, 2009, 11:48:10 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2009, 11:33:37 PM
Some VERY interesting Projections here:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/14/final-2009-playoff-projection/

Mary Hardin Baylor in the "East" Bracket (Rather, Bracket 1)

Albright gets moved to the Wesley Bracket. 

That would be wild!

If this happens the NCAA is truly taking a "March Madness" approach where any team can go to any bracket.  Also, you can basically forget about the East getting a #1 seed for a very long time...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2009, 01:09:17 AM
Well, if you go to the page and read the explanation, it makes sense even in the NCAA's penny-pinching.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 15, 2009, 08:55:25 AM
If this projection holds true, the 2 best teams in the east bracket would be outsiders and would meet in the 2nd round.  Very interesting.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2009, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2009, 01:09:17 AM
Well, if you go to the page and read the explanation, it makes sense even in the NCAA's penny-pinching.

I never said it didn't make sense...

I like the idea...

I never thought MHB was even a consideration to be imported...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: sjfcards on November 15, 2009, 09:25:03 AM
Hopefully a team from the east can step up and suprise some of these imports.  Maybe give the east some credibility. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: tecmobowler on November 15, 2009, 09:47:42 AM
I hope so too, but I'm afraid this is not the year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 15, 2009, 10:32:42 AM
Here are my thoughts for the bracket :

1. Mount Union
2. Del Val
3. Montclair (as a homer, but could also be #4 + less miles ME to NJ)
4. Alfred
5. Albright
6. Main Maritime
7. Hopkins
8. Susquehanna
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2009, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 15, 2009, 10:32:42 AM
Here are my thoughts for the bracket :

1. Mount Union
2. Del Val
3. Montclair (as a homer, but could also be #4 + less miles ME to NJ)
4. Alfred
5. Albright
6. Main Maritime
7. Hopkins
8. Susquehanna


Flop 7 and 8 and I'd like to see it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 15, 2009, 11:10:49 AM
This may be the worst year I can ever remember for Eastern Football.  The closest team we have to being a national powerhouse is Del Valley, who soundly lost to Wesley.  If D3's projection is correct, Maine Maritime at UMHB might be one of the ugliest blowouts in the last decade.

I'm really hoping a true Eastern team steps up and pulls a big upset to help rebuild our credibility.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 15, 2009, 11:14:03 AM
I'd be intrigued by Maine Maritime-UMHB the same way I was interested in getting a hold of the Faces of Death VHS tape when I was a kid. 

There's no way to prove anything this year with the D3 projections, unfortunately, because UMHB and MUC will play teams they will beat soundly then play each other.  The rest of the field will play each other than play the MUC-UMHB winner. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 15, 2009, 11:21:40 AM
Their is no intrigue in the MHB vs Maine game. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Zero. Just 4 hour flights of misery for Maine.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 15, 2009, 11:44:31 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 15, 2009, 11:10:49 AM
This may be the worst year I can ever remember for Eastern Football.  The closest team we have to being a national powerhouse is Del Valley, who soundly lost to Wesley.  If D3's projection is correct, Maine Maritime at UMHB might be one of the ugliest blowouts in the last decade.

I'm really hoping a true Eastern team steps up and pulls a big upset to help rebuild our credibility.

With a little more "O" we could make things interesting. Beat Rowan in their place and beat a highly touted Kean team. Only allowed (2) field goals. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 15, 2009, 12:22:59 PM
I'd like Maine to fly to MUC just to see if MUC can put up 100....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2009, 01:49:44 PM
dlip concurs with the general consensus here regrading the East. dlip comes into each season truly hoping the East will produce a team and/or teams that will be natiaonally competitive and bring the East some serious respect. Respect that the East has not felt in many years now. dlip is very happy for Maine and feels they deserve a ton of credit for their win against Curry. Yet he also believes they will get ****ing homogenized if they make the trip to Texas. If we look ourselves in the mirror, in comparison to the second tier of D3 football (dlip considers this the top 10 teams in the nation and U Rubba Dub and MUC on the top tier) the East is porous at best. ****!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 15, 2009, 02:15:00 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 15, 2009, 01:49:44 PM
dlip concurs with the general consensus here regrading the East. dlip comes into each season truly hoping the East will produce a team and/or teams that will be natiaonally competitive and bring the East some serious respect. Respect that the East has not felt in many years now. dlip is very happy for Maine and feels they deserve a ton of credit for their win against Curry. Yet he also believes they will get ****ing homogenized if they make the trip to Texas. If we look ourselves in the mirror, in comparison to the second tier of D3 football (dlip considers this the top 10 teams in the nation and U Rubba Dub and MUC on the top tier) the East is porous at best. ****!

Great descriptive, and very technical term.  +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2009, 03:18:43 PM
Our predictions were pretty true,  Maine at Montclair, Albright at Alfred, Susquehanna at Del Val ... with MUC hosting Washington and Jefferson
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 15, 2009, 04:16:31 PM
This is expanding the subject a bit, but I'd like to see Wesley leave the barely functioning ACFC and join the NJAC as an Eastern Region member.  Maybe allow West Conn or Morrisville to bolt for the ECFC, or fill out the Empire 8.

Some good match-ups for Round 1.  I'll be interested to see if Albright goes on the road and wins at Alfred, which wouldn't surprise me considering the strength of the MAC relative to the Eastern Region this season.  I hope Susquehanna brings their A-game, but I think Del Valley will lay the smack down.  Montclair should take care of business before being sacrificed in Alliance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 15, 2009, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 15, 2009, 12:22:59 PM
I'd like Maine to fly to MUC just to see if MUC can put up 100....

Heck if they beat Montclair (crazier things have happened) then you will get your chance to see it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2009, 04:45:51 PM
We just finished our "In the HuddLLe" interview with Dr. Joy Solomen, Chairwoman of the NCAA Division III Football Championship Committee.  I have to admit, I learned some things during the call -- and I'm sure readers will want to hear what she said about strength of schedule issues, the East as a whole and the way to avoid Mount Union at the top of the East Bracket every year.

Tune in at http://InTheHuddLLe.com at 7:30pm EST for the interview and a lot more.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 15, 2009, 06:21:38 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2009, 04:45:51 PM
We just finished our "In the HuddLLe" interview with Dr. Joy Solomen, Chairwoman of the NCAA Division III Football Championship Committee.  I have to admit, I learned some things during the call -- and I'm sure readers will want to hear what she said about strength of schedule issues, the East as a whole and the way to avoid Mount Union at the top of the East Bracket every year.

Tune in at http://InTheHuddLLe.com at 7:30pm EST for the interview and a lot more.

Joy is top notch and a straight shooter.  JT knows her very well as the AD of Rowan.  She was the first women inducted in the Rowan HOF for her body of work as an athlete for Rowan (Glassboro St) in Basketball, Field Hockey and Lacrosse.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 15, 2009, 06:58:50 PM
Well done Frank.  That's worth a little karma for Mr. Rossi.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 15, 2009, 08:03:32 PM
For those interested, you're invited to participate in the OAC Playoff Pick-Em Contest.   Whether you joined us in the regular season or not, your welcome to join for the playoffs.

Spreads for Round 1 have been posted in the General Page.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 15, 2009, 10:24:03 PM
So for anyone who listened to the interview (and last year's with Dr. Dick K.) did anything change from last year or prior years?  Curry got in as a one loss team last year and actually proved their worth even though we all kind of share the same opinion of the strength of the NEFC. 

It seems like the committee doesn't want to get into the subjective if they don't have to, but then it's still driven by the regional rankings, which are subjective (record vs. regionally ranked competition).  Seems inconsistent to say we don't want to subjectively compare across regions, but we'll use subjective regional rankings to judge the worthiness of a school. 

I still don't believe that the answer would be to schedule patsies (RPI, Hartwick) because it does nothing for the team with respect to preparing them for league play (RPI and Hartwick were a combined 4-8 in conference and 5-0 in OOC vs. 4 NEFC teams and Utica).  Maybe it doesn't make sense to schedule MUC, UWW and UMHB to start the season, but I'd bet that if you had a quality team (including the intangible winners mentality which not all talented teams have) and started with those three you would've probably ripped through either the E8 or LL this year.  Look at Hobart in 2007, lost to (8-2, playoff bound) Dickinson (in OT) and lost to LL champ RPI @ home in a close one, but beat a 6-4 CMU and then took it to Alfred midseaon, won 7 straight and got a pool C with two losses (might've been the hottest team going into the playoffs from the East, but got a really tough draw in a very good SJF team in the first round). 
I would still draw upon Hobart's 2007
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2009, 10:25:01 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 15, 2009, 07:04:33 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 15, 2009, 06:42:51 PM
Pep (or anybody). 

What can we expect from Albright.  I mean their offensive scheme etc. Anybody from the E8 played this year or the last few years?  I understand from WETM news in Elmira that the last time we played them was 1955 so no help there.  AU won that one 13-7.

Go Saxons!!

It appears, from Pep's brief visit to the Albright website, that the Lions are a pretty balanced team offensively, throwing the ball about 50% of the time. Their four-year starting QB is out, but their backup has done an admirable job.

Here's a link to their cumulative statistics for 2009:

http://www.albrightathletics.com/custompages/stats/football/2009/teamcume.htm

On Saxon Warriors!

Assuming that Kelly will be back behind center for Albright (or perhaps regardless since Subers threw for 362 yards), this game looks like it will be a barn-burner.  Both teams score and concede similar amounts and have balanced offenses.  It seems like Alfred has the stronger rushing attack, but Albright has a very balanced passing attack which will play right into Alfred's Achilles Heel.  I expect to see Manzer covering Romig, but Subers seemed to have great chemistry with Pillar in their comeback so he could have another big day.  The game could be decided on turnovers since both schools turn the ball over more than 2 times per game.  I like how Alfred has played at home, so I'm hoping they can pull out something like a 38-31 type win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 16, 2009, 02:18:29 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 15, 2009, 10:24:03 PM
It seems like the committee doesn't want to get into the subjective if they don't have to, but then it's still driven by the regional rankings, which are subjective (record vs. regionally ranked competition).  Seems inconsistent to say we don't want to subjectively compare across regions, but we'll use subjective regional rankings to judge the worthiness of a school. 


I think that is a fair point.  It came up during the interview, and  I didn't hear a satisfying answer.  Seems to me Ohio Northern among others could very well have secured the last playoff spot based on their success versus a difficult schedule. 

I believe Pat brought up an argument for St. John Fisher too, though I feel they played their way out of the discussion by losing to a 5-5 Salisbury team.  Pat seemed to insinuate that past committee decisions have made it clear to coaches/ad's that the best path to the playoffs is to run the table against a comparatively weak schedule.  Don't want to put words in his mouth, but that would be my thoughts exactly.  I'm not saying this to defend a second place NJAC, E8 or LL team.  But I think we all know a mid tier team in the WIAC would beat the NEFC champion by 4 or more touchdowns in most seasons.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2009, 08:19:22 PM
Apparantly the brackets aren't seeded at all...  The NCAA goes AWOL from normal logic once again...


http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/16/there-are-no-seedings/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2009, 09:07:46 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2009, 08:19:22 PM
Apparantly the brackets aren't seeded at all...  The NCAA goes AWOL from normal logic once again...


http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/16/there-are-no-seedings/

Apparently the NCAA really means No Clue At All..

Seriously why do they always come out and do stuff that just fits their needs/wants at the present time instead of having stuff like this in writing...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 16, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
How does one even create the brackets without seeding teams?  If the teams aren't seeded, then why was MUC shipped to the East and UWW to the North?  Clearly they determined the 1 seeds so why would we believe that they didn't seed all the teams?  The NCAA continues to amaze.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 16, 2009, 11:03:26 PM
I knew the NCAA was full of idiots, but this one takes the cake. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2009, 11:28:16 PM
Maybe we could see MUC and UWW meet in the Semi's...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2009, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2009, 11:28:16 PM
Maybe we could see MUC and UWW meet in the Semi's...

I think the one thing that the ESPN host was clear of was that the Wesley Bracket met the MUC bracket. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 16, 2009, 11:49:52 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2009, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 16, 2009, 11:28:16 PM
Maybe we could see MUC and UWW meet in the Semi's...

I think the one thing that the ESPN host was clear of was that the Wesley Bracket met the MUC bracket. 

That's no fun...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2009, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on November 16, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
How does one even create the brackets without seeding teams? 

I asked that question, too!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 17, 2009, 06:36:59 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2009, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on November 16, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
How does one even create the brackets without seeding teams? 

I asked that question, too!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.american-bingo.com%2Fimages%2FBingo-Cages%2FBingo-Cage-Ping-Pong-Ball-lg.jpg&hash=015b1875a7e6669556e6379e41c8b3a37ad8ca90)

I'd say they did pretty good considering this is how they pick the teams...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2009, 06:59:53 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 17, 2009, 06:36:59 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2009, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on November 16, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
How does one even create the brackets without seeding teams? 

I asked that question, too!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.american-bingo.com%2Fimages%2FBingo-Cages%2FBingo-Cage-Ping-Pong-Ball-lg.jpg&hash=015b1875a7e6669556e6379e41c8b3a37ad8ca90)

I'd say they did pretty good considering this is how they pick the teams...

dlip is never surprised by the lack of sense the NCAA exhibits on a consistent basis.
Honestly, look at their piss poor ****ing track record across all sports and divisions. The NCAA is a body that looks to do one thing, make money. Their feeble attempts at being upstanding, focusing on whats best for student athletes, discipline, and making any kind of sense are ****ing ridiculous and again, piss ****ing poor. This body focuses on one thing and one thing only, revenue. To dlip that's fine, but change your ****ing name to Fanny Mae or Mac or some **** like that. To dlip the funny thing about the NCAA is that they continue to try and come across as if they give a ****. dlip heard "The Office" is based upon the actual NCAA head of operations and main functioning office.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 17, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
As a Montclair fan I'm happy to be in the Playoffs. Did Ohio Northern get screwed, the answer is yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The NCAA decided to put the brackets together the way they wanted and they did so. IMHO they placed W&J to play in Alliance because the coach was from Mount Union. The committee thought it would look good. We all know the Brackets are North, South, East and West. I agree that there is no clear #1 in the East and Mount Union should be there. I do agree with Montclair and Main playing due to milage, makes sense and this may happen in other brackets. Set the brackets and then seed them. Cut the you know what. Stop trying to be politically correct. Nuff said !!!

I have a question with the weak East. The NJAC has 100 roster limits. Is that true with the rest of the East? I would guess that most of the Top 10 teams have unlimited roster requirements. That is why Wesley would not join the NJAC. I think JT said in the past that Montclair, Rowan and TCNJ grabbed the top talent and the rest of the NJAC was weak. The 100 man limit was done to even things up. What can be done to level the entire playing field for the East? I do not know the exact date when the limit was put in. Was Rowans Beast of The East run with or without the 100 limit? Just curious.



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: kubiack78 on November 17, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 17, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
As a Montclair fan I'm happy to be in the Playoffs. Did Ohio Northern get screwed, the answer is yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The NCAA decided to put the brackets together the way they wanted and they did so. IMHO they placed W&J to play in Alliance because the coach was from Mount Union. The committee thought it would look good. We all know the Brackets are North, South, East and West. I agree that there is no clear #1 in the East and Mount Union should be there. I do agree with Montclair and Main playing due to milage, makes sense and this may happen in other brackets. Set the brackets and then seed them. Cut the you know what. Stop trying to be politically correct. Nuff said !!!

I have a question with the weak East. The NJAC has 100 roster limits. Is that true with the rest of the East? I would guess that most of the Top 10 teams have unlimited roster requirements. That is why Wesley would not join the NJAC. I think JT said in the past that Montclair, Rowan and TCNJ grabbed the top talent and the rest of the NJAC was weak. The 100 man limit was done to even things up. What can be done to level the entire playing field for the East? I do not know the exact date when the limit was put in. Was Rowans Beast of The East run with or without the 100 limit? Just curious.





Whitewater has a 100 man roster limit
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:07:43 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 17, 2009, 06:36:59 AM

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.american-bingo.com%2Fimages%2FBingo-Cages%2FBingo-Cage-Ping-Pong-Ball-lg.jpg&hash=015b1875a7e6669556e6379e41c8b3a37ad8ca90)

I'd say they did pretty good considering this is how they pick the teams...


LOL!  +K to Mr. Upstate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 17, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
I have a question with the weak East. The NJAC has 100 roster limits. Is that true with the rest of the East? 


Good question about the historical aspect of the NJAC roster limit.  JT, Phil, or Knightstalker might know the answer to that one.

The rest of the East is not limited to 100 players.  Members of the Empire 8 have had huge rosters at the start of camp in recent years, Alfred especially.  Honestly I think if the NJAC wants to compete with the E8 long term, they should consider increasing the size.  But then you have to consider the amount of coaches it requires to properly supervise/train a larger roster.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 17, 2009, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 17, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
I have a question with the weak East. The NJAC has 100 roster limits. Is that true with the rest of the East? 


Good question about the historical aspect of the NJAC roster limit.  JT, Phil, or Knightstalker might know the answer to that one.


Reason #1 Money
Reason #2 Money
Reason #3 Money
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2009, 12:35:22 PM
Quote from: JT on November 17, 2009, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 17, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
I have a question with the weak East. The NJAC has 100 roster limits. Is that true with the rest of the East? 


Good question about the historical aspect of the NJAC roster limit.  JT, Phil, or Knightstalker might know the answer to that one.


Reason #1 Money
Reason #2 Money
Reason #3 Money

Isn't this typically the # of names listed in the program?  I can remember having over 100 kids, but 1-99 get listed in the program.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: JT on November 17, 2009, 12:27:00 PM

Reason #1 Money
Reason #2 Money
Reason #3 Money

Did Rowan have roster limits during their Beast of the East days in the mid 1990s to early 2000s?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 17, 2009, 01:45:51 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 17, 2009, 08:24:15 AM
I have a question with the weak East. The NJAC has 100 roster limits. Is that true with the rest of the East? 


Good question about the historical aspect of the NJAC roster limit.  JT, Phil, or Knightstalker might know the answer to that one.

The rest of the East is not limited to 100 players.  Members of the Empire 8 have had huge rosters at the start of camp in recent years, Alfred especially.   Honestly I think if the NJAC wants to compete with the E8 long term, they should consider increasing the size.  But then you have to consider the amount of coaches it requires to properly supervise/train a larger roster.

Pep is thinking there were 135 or so at Camp Alfred in August. That number is probably closer to 100 still on the team/ suiting up for varsity and/or jayvee games about mid-season. An alum donated $$ to pay the salary of a jayvee coach.

Pep sees that a freshman class of 75 football recruits each year boosts the school's enrollment and, while not all continue to play football, most get connected to AU and stick around for four or five years. Some realize they probably won't get PT, others realize that their classes demand more of them than originally thought, some never aspired to play beyond high school but it got them introduced to Alfred and they like it in Mayberry.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 18, 2009, 10:55:47 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 17, 2009, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: JT on November 17, 2009, 12:27:00 PM

Reason #1 Money
Reason #2 Money
Reason #3 Money

Did Rowan have roster limits during their Beast of the East days in the mid 1990s to early 2000s?

Yes
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 18, 2009, 11:10:39 AM
What are the details of the roster limits? Is it 100 players after camp, or only allowed to bring in 100 to camp? Varsity roster, or roster of entire program (Varsity, JV combined)?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2009, 11:17:05 AM
Quote from: Doid23 on November 18, 2009, 11:10:39 AM
What are the details of the roster limits? Is it 100 players after camp, or only allowed to bring in 100 to camp? Varsity roster, or roster of entire program (Varsity, JV combined)?

I believe leagues can limit schools to roster size, and of course the school and limit themselves.  After that, a school can have 1000 players on the sideline if they wanted to.

The ncaa does have playoff roster restrictions though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 19, 2009, 12:38:36 PM
I just did the pick em contest from the front page...I'm assuming there are some programming issues going on because when I view my picks...some of the results are already listed and the teams I chose are crossed out...

So...Apparently Alfred won already, Huntingdon lost, Thomas More won the first round, but no more, and Case Western lost to Wittenburg...

Interesting....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Terd Fergusen on November 19, 2009, 12:38:36 PM
I just did the pick em contest from the front page...I'm assuming there are some programming issues going on because when I view my picks...some of the results are already listed and the teams I chose are crossed out...

So...Apparently Alfred won already, Huntingdon lost, Thomas More won the first round, but no more, and Case Western lost to Wittenburg...

Interesting....

While I'm writing those results into my bracket, I think I'll put on my Phillies back-to-back championship tee (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/11/02/2009-11-02_philadelphia_inquirer_runs_ad_phillies.html).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 19, 2009, 01:58:32 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Terd Fergusen on November 19, 2009, 12:38:36 PM
I just did the pick em contest from the front page...I'm assuming there are some programming issues going on because when I view my picks...some of the results are already listed and the teams I chose are crossed out...

So...Apparently Alfred won already, Huntingdon lost, Thomas More won the first round, but no more, and Case Western lost to Wittenburg...

Interesting....

While I'm writing those results into my bracket, I think I'll put on my Phillies back-to-back championship tee (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/11/02/2009-11-02_philadelphia_inquirer_runs_ad_phillies.html).

they won the n.l. championship back to back ...no?  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 02:01:45 PM
Getting this thread back to its roots, how does everyone in the "East" feel about abandoning our games with each other and we each just take a crack at MUC every 3 days from now until the national semis?  I figure by the time that Alfred or Del Val gets to them we may have worn them down enough to allow an East Region team to advance!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 19, 2009, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 02:01:45 PM
Getting this thread back to its roots, how does everyone in the "East" feel about abandoning our games with each other and we each just take a crack at MUC every 3 days from now until the national semis?  I figure by the time that Alfred or Del Val gets to them we may have worn them down enough to allow an East Region team to advance!


pbr prefers make them play every east region team on consecutive days until they lose, if they win then they are worthy of the national championship  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 19, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: Terd Fergusen on November 19, 2009, 12:38:36 PM
I just did the pick em contest from the front page...I'm assuming there are some programming issues going on because when I view my picks...some of the results are already listed and the teams I chose are crossed out...

So...Apparently Alfred won already, Huntingdon lost, Thomas More won the first round, but no more, and Case Western lost to Wittenburg...

Interesting....


I think the 'fix' is on.....D3 college football is crooked....I'm gonna put 5 dimes on the Saxons....Thx for the inside info.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2009, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 19, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: Terd Fergusen on November 19, 2009, 12:38:36 PM
I just did the pick em contest from the front page...I'm assuming there are some programming issues going on because when I view my picks...some of the results are already listed and the teams I chose are crossed out...

So...Apparently Alfred won already, Huntingdon lost, Thomas More won the first round, but no more, and Case Western lost to Wittenburg...

Interesting....


I think the 'fix' is on.....D3 college football is crooked....I'm gonna put 5 dimes on the Saxons....Thx for the inside info.

Well, we already know what the NC Championship game is going to look like so...;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
I just finished reading ATN and saw the Atomic Football projections yesterday.  Alfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage!  I definitely agree that Albright is as good, if not better, than any team Alfred has faced all year, but the game is at home and, outside of Butterfield, Alfred has been able to score with/on everyone they've played.  Should be a fun game and we'll gladly make room near the band for anyone who can make the trip to Mayberry.

On Saxon Warriors!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2009, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
I just finished reading ATN and saw the Atomic Football projections yesterday.  Alfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage!  I definitely agree that Albright is as good, if not better, than any team Alfred has faced all year, but the game is at home and, outside of Butterfield, Alfred has been able to score with/on everyone they've played.  Should be a fun game and we'll gladly make room near the band for anyone who can make the trip to Mayberry.

On Saxon Warriors!!!

True, but, let's be honest, Alfred has a bit of a reputation for fading in the second half of seasons and not being able to come through against some tougher opponents. I'm sure there are more specific numbers to back me up, so if anyone thinks I'm being terribly unfair, I'll do the math.

I think, in some ways, you have to prove you can do it before people believe in you. I'm not an expert on Albright, so maybe they're in the same boat, but that's my two cents
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2009, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
I just finished reading ATN and saw the Atomic Football projections yesterday.  Alfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage!  I definitely agree that Albright is as good, if not better, than any team Alfred has faced all year, but the game is at home and, outside of Butterfield, Alfred has been able to score with/on everyone they've played.  Should be a fun game and we'll gladly make room near the band for anyone who can make the trip to Mayberry.

On Saxon Warriors!!!

True, but, let's be honest, Alfred has a bit of a reputation for fading in the second half of seasons and not being able to come through against some tougher opponents. I'm sure there are more specific numbers to back me up, so if anyone thinks I'm being terribly unfair, I'll do the math.

I think, in some ways, you have to prove you can do it before people believe in you. I'm not an expert on Albright, so maybe they're in the same boat, but that's my two cents

dlip's two ****in cents:

LET'S GO SAXONS MOTHER****ERS!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 19, 2009, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 19, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2009, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
I just finished reading ATN and saw the Atomic Football projections yesterday.  Alfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage!  I definitely agree that Albright is as good, if not better, than any team Alfred has faced all year, but the game is at home and, outside of Butterfield, Alfred has been able to score with/on everyone they've played.  Should be a fun game and we'll gladly make room near the band for anyone who can make the trip to Mayberry.

On Saxon Warriors!!!

True, but, let's be honest, Alfred has a bit of a reputation for fading in the second half of seasons and not being able to come through against some tougher opponents. I'm sure there are more specific numbers to back me up, so if anyone thinks I'm being terribly unfair, I'll do the math.

I think, in some ways, you have to prove you can do it before people believe in you. I'm not an expert on Albright, so maybe they're in the same boat, but that's my two cents

dlip's two ****in cents:

LET'S GO SAXONS MOTHER****ERS!

Agreed...

As the well respected AU Alums Mark Shardlow and Evan Enke would say, "Go knock their dicks in the dirt"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 19, 2009, 09:56:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2009, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 19, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2009, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
I just finished reading ATN and saw the Atomic Football projections yesterday.  Alfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage!  I definitely agree that Albright is as good, if not better, than any team Alfred has faced all year, but the game is at home and, outside of Butterfield, Alfred has been able to score with/on everyone they've played.  Should be a fun game and we'll gladly make room near the band for anyone who can make the trip to Mayberry.

On Saxon Warriors!!!

True, but, let's be honest, Alfred has a bit of a reputation for fading in the second half of seasons and not being able to come through against some tougher opponents. I'm sure there are more specific numbers to back me up, so if anyone thinks I'm being terribly unfair, I'll do the math.

I think, in some ways, you have to prove you can do it before people believe in you. I'm not an expert on Albright, so maybe they're in the same boat, but that's my two cents

dlip's two ****in cents:

LET'S GO SAXONS MOTHER****ERS!

Agreed...

As the well respected AU Alums Mark Shardlow and Evan Enke would say, "Go knock their dicks in the dirt"


That quote kills me every time....+1K
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2009, 08:51:55 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 19, 2009, 09:56:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2009, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 19, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2009, 04:40:05 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2009, 04:15:16 PM
I just finished reading ATN and saw the Atomic Football projections yesterday.  Alfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage!  I definitely agree that Albright is as good, if not better, than any team Alfred has faced all year, but the game is at home and, outside of Butterfield, Alfred has been able to score with/on everyone they've played.  Should be a fun game and we'll gladly make room near the band for anyone who can make the trip to Mayberry.

On Saxon Warriors!!!

True, but, let's be honest, Alfred has a bit of a reputation for fading in the second half of seasons and not being able to come through against some tougher opponents. I'm sure there are more specific numbers to back me up, so if anyone thinks I'm being terribly unfair, I'll do the math.

I think, in some ways, you have to prove you can do it before people believe in you. I'm not an expert on Albright, so maybe they're in the same boat, but that's my two cents

dlip's two ****in cents:

LET'S GO SAXONS MOTHER****ERS!

Agreed...

As the well respected AU Alums Mark Shardlow and Evan Enke would say, "Go knock their dicks in the dirt"

That quote kills me every time....+1K

Thanks for the support, everyone!  The band will bring its best tomorrow and make you all proud.  And it looks like the gurus are trying to reverse jinx the Saxons by picking them unanimously (along with DC in ATE).  The band isn't dumb enough to be lulled into a false sense of security, so you can take your mind games elsewhere!!!

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 20, 2009, 09:47:26 AM
QuoteAlfred has officially reached the "Noboby Believes in Us" stage! 

Well, nobody except these three guys (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/20/triple-take-we-predict-the-scores/). :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 11:44:40 AM
My Eastern Region (or MUC Bracket) Projections:

MUC 56
W&J 10

Albright 17
Alfred 21

Maine Maritime  31
Montclair State  24    (Yes, this is shocking, I know, But I still think Montclair's defense will betray them in this game)

Susquehanna  10
DVC  38
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 11:44:40 AM
My Eastern Region (or MUC Bracket) Projections:

MUC 56
W&J 10

Albright 17
Alfred 21

Maine Maritime  31
Montclair State  24    (Yes, this is shocking, I know, But I still think Montclair's defense will betray them in this game)

Susquehanna  10
DVC  38


Ballsy!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
I've never been to or seen Alfred's Field.  I had no idea they had turf! I also like that there is video of this game. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:04:08 PM
Susquehanna scores on it's first possession! 7-0!  Boy I could be way wrong there!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:06:41 PM
Mount Union up 6-0 early. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:11:18 PM
Del Val kicks a FG, 7-3 crusaders
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:14:56 PM
13-0 Mount Union ... here we go!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:16:51 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
I've never been to or seen Alfred's Field.  I had no idea they had turf! I also like that there is video of this game. 

To say their turf sucks would be an understatement...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:16:51 PM
Montclair leads 7-0 after a nice drive, halfway through the 1st
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:18:22 PM
Manzer injured isn't on the field for their 2nd drive of the game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:18:40 PM
I'm assuming this is the right place to post updates... lol
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:21:22 PM
Touchdown Maine Maritime, 7-7

Right now, about Midway through the 1st:

Maine 7
MSU  7

MUC 13
WJ 0

Alfred 0
Albright 0

DVC 3
Susq 7
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:23:14 PM
MUC 20-0... I don't really see a reason to keep updating this game any longer...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:24:11 PM
Del Val up 10- 7...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:25:46 PM
2:00 left in 1st at Alfred and still scoreless...

AU driving inside Albright 20...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:26:16 PM
14-7 Montclair ... Both teams already have over 100 yards rushing.  A shootout on the ground!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:29:23 PM
End of the first at Alfred...

Still scoreless...

AU at the Albright 10 yd line...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:30:05 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2009, 12:29:23 PM
End of the first at Alfred...

Still scoreless...

AU at the Albright 10 yd line...

Also the end of the 1st at Montclair, but Maine is driving again.  Neither defense looks good at least from the stats. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:31:51 PM
TD Alfred...

Nice pass from Secky to the TE on a delay off of play action...

EP to come...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:34:45 PM
Mount Union leads 27-0 and it is STILL in the 1st quarter... Weren't the Mount Guys saying this was an off year? uhhh...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:37:52 PM
TD Albright from 50+ yards out...

Nice pass to the WR who had one on one coverage deep...

7-7 early in the 2nd qtr...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:38:09 PM
Montclair State leads 21-7... My pick isn't looking too good!  Apparently Maine's defense is even worse... Shoulda known when they gave up like 44 points last week  :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:39:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:38:09 PM
Montclair State leads 21-7... My pick isn't looking too good!  Apparently Maine's defense is even worse... Shoulda known when they gave up like 44 points last week  :D

When I said ballsy, I really meant stoopid...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:39:47 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2009, 12:39:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:38:09 PM
Montclair State leads 21-7... My pick isn't looking too good!  Apparently Maine's defense is even worse... Shoulda known when they gave up like 44 points last week  :D

When I said ballsy, I really meant stoopid...

Game's not over yet!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:43:17 PM
Secky has been off target on his deep passes...

Has had two guys running alone deep and has missed them both...

Manzer has yet to return so that may be the issue...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:44:39 PM
Albright can't run the ball for DLip vs AU...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 21, 2009, 12:49:15 PM
DelVal's only up 10-7, but otherwise crushing SUS.  Double digit first downs in 1Q, Palazzi INT 2x, no real offense after a TO on the opening KO and then a 29 yard TD pass for SUS.  DVC has around 200 yards already.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:50:59 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 21, 2009, 12:49:15 PM
DelVal's only up 10-7, but otherwise crushing SUS.  Double digit first downs in 1Q, Palazzi INT 2x, no real offense after a TO on the opening KO and then a 29 yard TD pass for SUS.  DVC has around 200 yards already.
Yeah I think it's a matter of time before the dam breaks open...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:52:49 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:50:59 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 21, 2009, 12:49:15 PM
DelVal's only up 10-7, but otherwise crushing SUS.  Double digit first downs in 1Q, Palazzi INT 2x, no real offense after a TO on the opening KO and then a 29 yard TD pass for SUS.  DVC has around 200 yards already.
Yeah I think it's a matter of time before the dam breaks open...

Yeah Cook has over 130 yards rushing already...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:53:47 PM
Midway through the 2nd in most games:

MUC 34
WJ 0

Alfred 7
Albright 7

MSU 21
Maine 7

Del Val 17
Susq 7

Looks like the ALfred game will be the only interesting one near the end...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:56:11 PM
Montclair leads 28-7 almost halftime.  I guess most is going "as expected" right now. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 12:57:25 PM
AU bringing the heat vs Albright...

Constantly rushing 3/4 to a side on passes...

Totally killing the timing of the passing offense...

Still knotted up at 7 with under 5 minutes to play...

Switching over to the ECAC game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 12:59:15 PM
I'll continue to watch the Alfred game as it's the most interesting at this point. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:03:12 PM
Our friend from the NEFC board scores a Touchdown with no time remaining, makes it 28-14 Montclair at Halftime...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:04:23 PM
Del Val scores again, up 24-7 and the dam seems to have broken...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:07:06 PM
Alfred Kicks to take a 10-7 lead :31 seconds left in half. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 01:07:23 PM
SJF takes opening possession 75 yards on 8 plays to go up 6-0, EP missd
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:10:01 PM
Take it to the ECAC board  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:13:08 PM
Halftime at Merrill, 10-7 Alfred

Del Val scores again and is crushing Susquehanna 31-7 approaching halftime.

MUC is all over W&J 41-0 almost halftime.

And at the half, MSU leads Maine Maritime 28-14
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 01:33:42 PM
End of the first at Growney and tied up at 6
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
Upstate, Sorry but the ECACs aren't playoffs... Anyway, MSU scores at the beginning of the half to take 35-14 lead over Maine. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:41:09 PM
Albright with a 33 yard TD pass!  14-10 Albright in the 3rd quarter!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 21, 2009, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
Upstate, Sorry but the ECACs aren't playoffs... Anyway, MSU scores at the beginning of the half to take 35-14 lead over Maine. 

Yes, but it is postseason (or whatever).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:44:42 PM
Secky throws the ball deep and it's intercepted!  Albright has the ball back.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:47:41 PM
Delaware Valley goes up 38-7.  They definitely look like a force...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:51:51 PM
Albright goes up 21-10 halfway through the 3rd quarter.  Alfred must respond soon or else they are in big trouble...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
Upstate, Sorry but the ECACs aren't playoffs... Anyway, MSU scores at the beginning of the half to take 35-14 lead over Maine. 

Are you sure?

I think the winner of this game plays the Union/Hartwick game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 21, 2009, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
Upstate, Sorry but the ECACs aren't playoffs... Anyway, MSU scores at the beginning of the half to take 35-14 lead over Maine. 

Are you sure?

I think the winner of this game plays the Union/Hartwick game...

Maybe then we'd get the Fisher Union game!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:57:58 PM
Delaware Valley up 45-7 now.  MUC leads 48-0.  Del Val and MUC battling for the biggest margin of the region!  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 01:57:58 PM
Delaware Valley up 45-7 now.  MUC leads 48-0.  Del Val and MUC battling for the biggest margin of the region!  :P

Hows the AU game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:05:47 PM
ALfred still trailing 21-10, They had a field goal blocked on 4th and goal. 

AU just blocked a punt and are inside the 10 again... 

P.S. This board is pretty much useless when loads of people are on here... ugh!  The pages won't even load.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:08:39 PM
Touchdown Alfred! 21-18 (2 point conversion good to hendricks on screen pass)  with 14:56 left in the game
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:10:14 PM
Albright returns the kick past the 50... almost broke it... This is going to be a good ending...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
47 yard pass to the 1 by Albright, then a TD on the next play!  28-18 albright with about 14 mins left!

Del Val is up 52-7 and MUC up 55-0 ... they are really battling!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 02:16:09 PM
AU's offense w/o Manzer is really sputtering...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
Their defense hasn't been good at all in the 2nd half. 

AU to the Albright 30 ...  Time is ticking. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
Their defense hasn't been good at all in the 2nd half. 

AU to the Albright 30 ...  Time is ticking. 

Am I the only one that hears Michael Jackson in the static of the alfred broadcast? lol ---

Alfred 3rd and goal --- Touchdown Hendricks!  28-25 with 8:29 left.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 02:22:22 PM
Slow time consuming drive by AU...

Results in a Hendrix TD...

25-28 Albright...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 21, 2009, 02:23:01 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
Their defense hasn't been good at all in the 2nd half. 

AU to the Albright 30 ...  Time is ticking. 

Am I the only one that hears Michael Jackson in the static of the alfred broadcast? lol ---

Alfred 3rd and goal --- Touchdown Hendricks!  28-25 with 8:29 left.

Yeah they have the AM feed as the play by play and it sucks...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:24:46 PM
59-7 Del Valley leads ... is this showing us how bad the LL was this year or how good the MAC is?  or both? Especially with Albright's performance. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:25:38 PM
35-25 Albright... Albright is scoring at will...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 21, 2009, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:24:46 PM
59-7 Del Valley leads ... is this showing us how bad the LL was this year or how good the MAC is?  or both? Especially with Albright's performance. 

Considering LVC is beating Salisbury by 16 (who beat SJF by a big margin and beat Union) I think it's more about the quality of the MAC this year. 

Union is beating Hartwick 26-7 at Half (not surprising) w/o Coney. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:32:21 PM
Secky Intercepted and it looks like we'll have MUC- MSU and DVC-Albright next week...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:34:46 PM
WOW!  DVC up 66-7 now.  They are really running it up... Not to look ahead, but a statement making to the rest of the region, including MUC?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:35:46 PM
Final:

Mount Union 55
W&J 0

MSU 38
Maine Maritime 22
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 21, 2009, 02:39:22 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:34:46 PM
WOW!  DVC up 66-7 now.  They are really running it up... Not to look ahead, but a statement making to the rest of the region, including MUC?

Revenge for 2006 possibly, but yeah, DVC is a legit team and should be playing MUC in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 03:02:22 PM
How is Del Val's defense?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 21, 2009, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Seeing as how DVC beat Albright 45-16 two weeks ago, I think the first part of your prediction is pretty likely.  The second part, we'll see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 21, 2009, 03:57:39 PM
dlip gonna go out on a limb here; the MAC takes the cake as the East's best conference this season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
I'd like to see one team step up and give those purple bastards a game.  An upset would be redonkulous. Go Aggies!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 21, 2009, 05:09:10 PM
Del Val's defense has played very well since the win over FDU-Florham.  The only scoring drive today was 28 yards and the Aggies picked off Palozzi four times (he threw three picks all year coming in) and recovering two special teams fumbles. The offense is clicking with a great junior running back (Matt Cook) and a quarterback who has settled into a great rhythm (Mike Isgro).  We'll see what next week brings against a rejuvenated Albright team.

The Aggies still seem vulnerable to deep throws and runs up the middle but, when they get up on someone, they become really aggressive in the pass rush and pass coverage.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:12:18 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 21, 2009, 05:09:10 PM
Del Val's defense has played very well since the win over FDU-Florham.  The only scoring drive today was 28 yards and the Aggies picked off Palozzi four times (he threw three picks all year coming in) and recovering two special teams fumbles. The offense is clicking with a great junior running back (Matt Cook) and a quarterback who has settled into a great rhythm (Mike Isgro).  We'll see what next week brings against a rejuvenated Albright team.

The Aggies still seem vulnerable to deep throws and runs up the middle but, when they get up on someone, they become really aggressive in the pass rush and pass coverage.

Thanks for the info Gordon.  D is going to be a big factor should they go to Ohio.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:14:24 PM
Right now, I'm pulling big time for Connecticut.  After all they've been through it would be nice to see them take out ND in ND's house.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Thanks for your no confidence vote before the Maine game. :) The Red Hawks are going to Alliance and nobody give us a rats ass chance, but our "D" is solid and one never knows. ;) Let's see what happens next Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:33:09 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Thanks for your no confidence vote before the Maine game. :) The Red Hawks are going to Alliance and nobody give us a rats ass chance, but our "D" is solid and one never knows. ;) Let's see what happens next Saturday.

Good luck Dave.  Have fun in Alliance.  Hit the Pro HOF... its a must.  The big problem with the NJAC champ is that they did not kick the sh*t out of their nearest league competitors.  For example, when Rowan is rolling they kick the sh*t out of the very good Montclair teams.  And you gave up 22 to Mass Maritime.

I just don't think the NJAC is that good this year.  The top of the MAC is better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Thanks for your no confidence vote before the Maine game. :) The Red Hawks are going to Alliance and nobody give us a rats ass chance, but our "D" is solid and one never knows. ;) Let's see what happens next Saturday.

Well, Maine has a weird offense that I thought might cause trouble -- Obviously it didn't cause as much of one as I thought.  As for Mount Union, teams have been saying "you never know" for several years.  Only a very small percentage have actually knocked them off.  Good Luck to you.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:44:12 PM
Two homer holding calls against U. Conn, cost U. Conn the winning TD twice. Hopefully they get OT.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 05:54:55 PM
I need to stay off this board.  The constant timing out and errors is making me go nuuuuuuuuuuuts. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:33:09 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Thanks for your no confidence vote before the Maine game. :) The Red Hawks are going to Alliance and nobody give us a rats ass chance, but our "D" is solid and one never knows. ;) Let's see what happens next Saturday.

Good luck Dave.  Have fun in Alliance.  Hit the Pro HOF... its a must.  The big problem with the NJAC champ is that they did not kick the sh*t out of their nearest league competitors.  For example, when Rowan is rolling they kick the sh*t out of the very good Montclair teams.  And you gave up 22 to Mass Maritime.

I just don't think the NJAC is that good this year.  The top of the MAC is better.

Thanks for the well wishes. I can't argue with your statement on the MAC. From what I heard there was xtra PT in the 4th and maybe that is when they got their 8 points. I watched live stats through the first half. It was 28-7 with 40 seconds left. We kicked off and 39 seconds later it was 28-14. Then I had to go. Not a dominent win, but a good one.I booked my hotel yesterday and hope to get to the hall after the game Sat. I will leave early on Friday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Thanks for your no confidence vote before the Maine game. :) The Red Hawks are going to Alliance and nobody give us a rats ass chance, but our "D" is solid and one never knows. ;) Let's see what happens next Saturday.

Well, Maine has a weird offense that I thought might cause trouble -- Obviously it didn't cause as much of one as I thought.  As for Mount Union, teams have been saying "you never know" for several years.  Only a very small percentage have actually knocked them off.  Good Luck to you.  

I hope we will fall into that small percentage. ;D Thanks for the will wishes. I will be there next Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 06:06:58 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 05:54:55 PM
I need to stay off this board.  The constant timing out and errors is making me go nuuuuuuuuuuuts. 

I keep getting bounced too. Thanks for your well wishes and I hope we fall into that small percentage. I will be there next Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 06:14:46 PM
U. Conn in double OT. Wow!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2009, 06:30:04 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:33:09 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 21, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
Final:

ALbright 35
Alfred 25

I honestly think Del Val, if playing this well, can beat Albright and give MUC a run for their money!

Thanks for your no confidence vote before the Maine game. :) The Red Hawks are going to Alliance and nobody give us a rats ass chance, but our "D" is solid and one never knows. ;) Let's see what happens next Saturday.

Good luck Dave.  Have fun in Alliance.  Hit the Pro HOF... its a must.  The big problem with the NJAC champ is that they did not kick the sh*t out of their nearest league competitors.  For example, when Rowan is rolling they kick the sh*t out of the very good Montclair teams.  And you gave up 22 to Mass Maritime.

I just don't think the NJAC is that good this year.  The top of the MAC is better.

Thanks for the well wishes. I can't argue with your statement on the MAC. From what I heard there was xtra PT in the 4th and maybe that is when they got their 8 points. I watched live stats through the first half. It was 28-7 with 40 seconds left. We kicked off and 39 seconds later it was 28-14. Then I had to go. Not a dominent win, but a good one.I booked my hotel yesterday and hope to get to the hall after the game Sat. I will leave early on Friday.

You never know. We went to Alliance in 2005 with a backup QB that couldn't break a pane of glass, hung close and lost late 19-7.  Make some magic on Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 21, 2009, 08:52:34 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 06:14:46 PM
U. Conn in double OT. Wow!

As a native Nutmegger (and since my lil sister graduated from Storrs)

GO HUSKIES!!!!!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.espncdn.com%2Fphoto%2F2009%2F1121%2Fncf_a_moore_576.jpg&hash=c0207b56a6cf0be5e47276e194c2219c5f14d052)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 09:24:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 02:34:46 PM
WOW!  DVC up 66-7 now.  They are really running it up... Not to look ahead, but a statement making to the rest of the region, including MUC?

Not so much...not to MUC anyway.

(And for the record, I'm UWW purple, definitely NOT MUC purple!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
I'd like to see one team step up and give those purple bastards a game.  An upset would be redonkulous. Go Aggies!

You have probably just expressed the feelings of a huge percentage of D3 fans nationwide!  ::)

Except for "redonkulous". I've never really heard that word before....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2009, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
I'd like to see one team step up and give those purple bastards a game.  An upset would be redonkulous. Go Aggies!

You have probably just expressed the feelings of a huge percentage of D3 fans nationwide!  ::)

Except for "redonkulous". I've never really heard that word before....

I have a feeling that feeling would apply to both your, and my, shades of purple.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 21, 2009, 10:03:49 PM
DVC could be the team that gives MUC a run for its money. I thought Susq was pretty good, and they got freakin' BLITZED today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 21, 2009, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
I'd like to see one team step up and give those purple bastards a game.  An upset would be redonkulous. Go Aggies!

You have probably just expressed the feelings of a huge percentage of D3 fans nationwide!  ::)

Except for "redonkulous". I've never really heard that word before....

Re: Redonkulous. Visit LLPP, where you will see all that and more.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 21, 2009, 10:23:02 PM
My money's on Wesley bringing the best game to Alliance
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 10:40:03 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 21, 2009, 09:32:03 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: JT on November 21, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
I'd like to see one team step up and give those purple bastards a game.  An upset would be redonkulous. Go Aggies!

You have probably just expressed the feelings of a huge percentage of D3 fans nationwide!  ::)

Except for "redonkulous". I've never really heard that word before....

I have a feeling that feeling would apply to both your, and my, shades of purple.

It's possible, but it should apply WAY MORE to your shade! If there is ever a shortage of Bronze and Walnut it will be because there is WAY TOO much of it in Alliance!  :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 10:44:40 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 21, 2009, 10:03:49 PM
DVC could be the team that gives MUC a run for its money. I thought Susq was pretty good, and they got freakin' BLITZED today.

I'm going to assume you are kidding and laugh along with you...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 10:49:52 PM
All these Purple people seem to have superiority complex (or at least always sound arrogant even when they aren't even trying to)...I'm stunned!  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 21, 2009, 11:13:37 PM
It's fun to win.  So much fun they'd thought they'd share it with us, I guess. :)

Whitewater and Mount Union are the class of Division III.  No one doubts that.  No one disputes that.  But it's okay for other teams to enjoy wins and entertain hopes of playing with the Purple Powers.  Warhawk and Purple Raiders fans shouldn't feel insulted by that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2009, 11:21:04 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 21, 2009, 11:13:37 PM
It's fun to win.  So much fun they'd thought they'd share it with us, I guess. :)

Whitewater and Mount Union are the class of Division III.  No one doubts that.  No one disputes that.  But it's okay for other teams to enjoy wins and entertain hopes of playing with the Purple Powers.  Warhawk and Purple Raiders fans shouldn't feel insulted by that.

Put very well, +k to you!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 21, 2009, 11:13:37 PM
It's fun to win.  So much fun they'd thought they'd share it with us, I guess. :)

Whitewater and Mount Union are the class of Division III.  No one doubts that.  No one disputes that.  But it's okay for other teams to enjoy wins and entertain hopes of playing with the Purple Powers.  Warhawk and Purple Raiders fans shouldn't feel insulted by that.

Thank's alot for your insight.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2009, 11:35:23 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 21, 2009, 11:13:37 PM
It's fun to win.  So much fun they'd thought they'd share it with us, I guess. :)

Whitewater and Mount Union are the class of Division III.  No one doubts that.  No one disputes that.  But it's okay for other teams to enjoy wins and entertain hopes of playing with the Purple Powers.  Warhawk and Purple Raiders fans shouldn't feel insulted by that.

Who said I was insulted by it?  I hope Montclair brings their A game next week.  It's no fun having games like W&J today.  W&J didn't want to be there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.

Wrong forum. Go to MUC.edu

Now I'm recruiting for the wrong shade of purple for goodness sakes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.

Wrong forum. Go to MUC.edu

Now I'm recruiting for the wrong shade of purple for goodness sakes.

Nice out
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:28:01 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.

Wrong forum. Go to MUC.edu

Now I'm recruiting for the wrong shade of purple for goodness sakes.

Nice out

Not to be a jerk, but I really don't need an "out" from a question posed by a guy who doesn't even know how to spell excel.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:38:59 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:28:01 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 22, 2009, 12:12:45 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 21, 2009, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: raidertown on November 21, 2009, 11:35:58 PM
It would be nice if someone could challenge us (The Purple Powers) So it can bring our heads back to normal ;) Hope del valley presents a challenge because we need one before we face whitewater in salem ;D

It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge.  However, and correct me if I am wrong - Have the purple powers ever been recognized in major media as a place for an upper education institution in any regard?

There is nothing to correct you on. You made one statement and then you asked a question. The statement you made is an opinion: "It is understandable that the (Purple Powers) are looking for a challenge." No need to correct that. Then you asked a question. The question is almost nonsensical. Seriously. What are you even asking? "...a place for an upper education institution.." I doubt that phrase has ever appeared in any "major media" without the author getting fired!


"The New York Times hereby recognizes Mount Union and UW-Whitewater as a place for an upper education institution."

If you are asking whether either institution has been nationally recognized for academics the answer is yes, they both have.



Not knowing, may I ask what academic programs does MUC excell in and how big is their student body? Just trying to learn more about various institutions.

Wrong forum. Go to MUC.edu

Now I'm recruiting for the wrong shade of purple for goodness sakes.

Nice out

Not to be a jerk, but I really don't need an "out" from a question posed by a guy who doesn't even know how to spell excel.

If you are so intriged about the spelling of excel after midnight, I hope your future endeavors are much more oriented.  I was trying to have a civil comunication.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:28:56 AM
@bleed: no, my post was not a joke. Read my columns, jerky, I don't make a ton of jokes, especially on how good or bad a team is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:34:52 AM
@raidertown: don't listen to bleedpurple's mindless drivel. There are a few really good people on these board and site that can answer some of those questions, hscoach is one right off the top of my head. Check out the north region and oac boards for more on muc. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 09:40:44 AM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:34:52 AM
@raidertown: don't listen to bleedpurple's mindless drivel. There are a few really good people on these board and site that can answer some of those questions, hscoach is one right off the top of my head. Check out the north region and oac boards for more on muc.  

Thanks for the props, I guess.  I obviously need to be more of dick around here.  Can't have you guys thinking I'm reasonable.....  


Saxon73:  I'll try to answer what questions I thought you asked:

Student body is about 2,200.  When the Kehres run began in the early 90's the college was about 1,500 or so students and the campus was honestly an old dump.  A lot of old buildings with character, but not well kept.  Now the campus is completely redone with tons of new construction that fits perfectly with the old brick character of the original chapel.

As far as studies go, it's your normal liberal arts, Methodist Church based college.  The engineering programs are new.  The rest are long-standing programs:

Accounting
American Studies
Art
Media Computing
Asian Studies
Athletic Training
Biology
Medical Technology
Business Administration
Chemistry
Biochemistry
Communication
Computer Science
Criminal Justice
Economics
Education
 Early Childhood
 Middle Childhood
 Intervention Specialist
Engineering
 Civil Engineering
 Mechanical Engineering        
English
 English: Literature
 English: Writing
 Environmental Science
Exercise Science
Foreign Languages
 French
 German
 Japanese
 Spanish
Geology
Health
History
Information Systems
International Business and Economics
International Studies
Mathematics
Financial Mathematics
Music
 Music Education
 Music Performance
Philosophy
Physical Education
Physics
Political Science
Psychology
Cognitive and Behavioral Neuroscience
Religious Studies
Sociology
Sport Business
Theatre

Mount might not be an ultra high-end school in a specific major like Case Western is in engineering, but it's a good school.  Because it's so successful in football, some assume it's nothing more than a community college but that's very far from the truth.  It's not Ivy League, but it's not a Kent State or Akron U either.  The most recent US News and World Report tabbed MUC as follows:

Mount Union College has once again been named by U.S. News and World Report as one of America's Best Colleges.
After 16 consecutive years of being ranked in the Top 15 in the Midwest among regional comprehensive or liberal arts colleges, the College was promoted to the "Best Liberal Arts Colleges" category in 2007. In 2008, Mount Union was once again recognized at this level.  "This places Mount Union among the top 248 colleges and universities in the country," said Dr. Richard F. Giese, president of the College. "We are pleased to once again be recognized at this level of distinction." The top three colleges in the best liberal arts colleges category are Williams College, Amherst College and Swarthmore College. Other Ohio colleges in this category are Oberlin and Kenyon.


I unfortunately went Akron U for Civil Engineering a LONG time ago, so I don't know exactly the inner workings of actually going there, but one of my best friends went pre-med at MUC and is now a podiatrist (sp?) and he raved about his undergrad education when he got to med school as compared to the guys that took pre-med at the bigger state schools (mostly Ohio State).  My brother also has a double degree in business marketing and computer science from MUC and has done quite well with it.

What else do you want to know about Mount?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 22, 2009, 10:59:10 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 09:40:44 AM

Mount might not be an ultra high-end school in a specific major like Case Western is in engineering, but it's a good school.  Because it's so successful in football, some assume it's nothing more than a community college but that's very far from the truth.  It's not Ivy League, but it's not a Kent State or Akron U either.  The most recent US News and World Report tabbed MUC as follows:

Mount Union College has once again been named by U.S. News and World Report as one of America's Best Colleges.
After 16 consecutive years of being ranked in the Top 15 in the Midwest among regional comprehensive or liberal arts colleges, the College was promoted to the "Best Liberal Arts Colleges" category in 2007. In 2008, Mount Union was once again recognized at this level.  "This places Mount Union among the top 248 colleges and universities in the country," said Dr. Richard F. Giese, president of the College. "We are pleased to once again be recognized at this level of distinction." The top three colleges in the best liberal arts colleges category are Williams College, Amherst College and Swarthmore College. Other Ohio colleges in this category are Oberlin and Kenyon.



Thanks for the informative post.  I too assumed that MUC was a "regional school" (which seemed to have been the case for the last 15 yrs) but clearly MUC is moving up the ladder with recognition on a "national" level in the past 2 years.  Congrats.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...

bleedpurple ; (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ARioY3vUMF7K9SM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaaadddog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fdumbass.jpg&hash=c93cda06d3e46233a53648925991018f961f1d7d)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:02:30 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:28:56 AM
@bleed: no, my post was not a joke. Read my columns, jerky, I don't make a ton of jokes, especially on how good or bad a team is.

So you call me jerky, refer to my mindless drivel, and imply that I'm not a good person. And you've probably convinced yourself that I'm the one who is hostile.  :D

That's great. You think Delaware Valley is solid and could give MUC a run. And apparently you were offended that I thought you were joking. I just thought your logic was a bit skewed. Of course I don't know for sure what you mean by
"give MUC a run". I suppose if you mean stay within 3 TD, it's possible. I don't know much about them. But in looking at the general quality of the teams they beat, and an 18 point loss to Wesley (A team that was eliminated by UMHB 17 and 31 the last two years, and by 37 in each of the two years before that) I don't see a team that will likely come close to MUC.

But you know what? Maybe you're right. I guess we'll find out if they play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 22, 2009, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:02:30 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:28:56 AM
@bleed: no, my post was not a joke. Read my columns, jerky, I don't make a ton of jokes, especially on how good or bad a team is.

So you call me jerky, refer to my mindless drivel, and imply that I'm not a good person. And you've probably convinced yourself that I'm the one who is hostile.  :D

That's great. You think Delaware Valley is solid and could give MUC a run. And apparently you were offended that I thought you were joking. I just thought your logic was a bit skewed. Of course I don't know for sure what you mean by
"give MUC a run". I suppose if you mean stay within 3 TD, it's possible. I don't know much about them. But in looking at the general quality of the teams they beat, and an 18 point loss to Wesley (A team that was eliminated by UMHB 17 and 31 the last two years, and by 37 in each of the two years before that) I don't see a team that will likely come close to MUC.

But you know what? Maybe you're right. I guess we'll find out on Saturday.

bleedpurple......  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgodihatepeople.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F08%2Floser.jpg&hash=c3c8a80d578928e50469d6e61f3e1a143a71c5c0)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...

bleedpurple ; (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ARioY3vUMF7K9SM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaaadddog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fdumbass.jpg&hash=c93cda06d3e46233a53648925991018f961f1d7d)

Liking it more and more...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 22, 2009, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...

bleedpurple ; (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ARioY3vUMF7K9SM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaaadddog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fdumbass.jpg&hash=c93cda06d3e46233a53648925991018f961f1d7d)

Liking it more and more...

amazing how all of a sudden muc folk come over here to flame the boards and beat their chests...dlip perfect pic all the dood needs is a purple hat
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2009, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...

bleedpurple ; (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ARioY3vUMF7K9SM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaaadddog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fdumbass.jpg&hash=c93cda06d3e46233a53648925991018f961f1d7d)

Liking it more and more...

"Act like you've been there before..."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 22, 2009, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...

bleedpurple ; (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ARioY3vUMF7K9SM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaaadddog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fdumbass.jpg&hash=c93cda06d3e46233a53648925991018f961f1d7d)

Liking it more and more...

amazing how all of a sudden muc folk come over here to flame the boards and beat their chests...dlip perfect pic all the dood needs is a purple hat

What are you even talking about. I don't root for MUC. I was just giving my opinion. But apparently an honest opinion regarding MUC is not welcome even from non "MUC folk".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:19:39 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2009, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 12:30:25 AM
My goodness, before tonight I used to HATE how MUC used to destroy everyone in the East. Now I'm kind of liking it...

bleedpurple ; (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ARioY3vUMF7K9SM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaaadddog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fdumbass.jpg&hash=c93cda06d3e46233a53648925991018f961f1d7d)

Liking it more and more...

"Act like you've been there before..."

You don't get it either. I'm not an MUC backer. It's not like I'm an MUC guy bragging about my team trashing the east.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 22, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
bleedpurple roots for the other purple machine.  With UMHB and Linfield also in purple, someone's gotta change their colors - it's too confusing! ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 22, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
bleedpurple roots for the other purple machine.  With UMHB and Linfield also in purple, someone's gotta change their colors - it's too confusing! ;)

Wow, I guess. In looking at my posts they do take on a different light if I had just been an MUC homer beating my chest.  But was really just trying to give my opinion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2009, 04:28:46 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 22, 2009, 03:26:00 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 22, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
bleedpurple roots for the other purple machine.  With UMHB and Linfield also in purple, someone's gotta change their colors - it's too confusing! ;)

Wow, I guess. In looking at my posts they do take on a different light if I had just been an MUC homer beating my chest.  But was really just trying to give my opinion.

"Act like you've been there before..."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
FYI, bleedpurple is a Whitewater backer.  Not MUC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 22, 2009, 06:15:27 PM
There are games this Saturday, Montclair vs Mount Union and Albright vs Del Val. I didn't know Del Val already beat Albright. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 22, 2009, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 22, 2009, 06:15:27 PM
I didn't know Del Val already beat Albright. ;D

They did, during the season.  This is round two.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
FYI, bleedpurple is a Whitewater backer.  Not MUC.

dlip doesn't care if bleedpurple roots for the defunct New Jersey Generals with his recent posts and attitude there can only be one conclusion as to his posting creds....

bleedpurple (the whoever ****ing fan) = (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AwijYBFTscwU8xM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamegoeswild.com%2Fphotos%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2F200708_mongolia%2Fhorse_cock.jpg&hash=6b21bdc1df2d2c23827ab8d2e463a382e7e3a7ca)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 22, 2009, 09:20:47 PM
Quote from: JT on November 22, 2009, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 22, 2009, 06:15:27 PM
I didn't know Del Val already beat Albright. ;D

They did, during the season.  This is round two.

You know what I ment. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 23, 2009, 09:35:34 AM
I'm finally back online, so I'm gonna lay down my thoughts before going back and reading all the posts since Saturday.

Obviously I'm crushed by Saturday's result, but I'm less upset about the loss than I feel gypped by not seeing what excitement Manzer would have brought to the game had he not gotten injured.  Alfred still may not have won, but when you lose by 10 and lose a player who was averaging 11 points per game, the "what if" scenarios creep in.  I'll forever believe that if Manzer played a full 60 minutes that Alfred would have won, but that is irrelevant.  In all practicality, that was the last home game of the year and it was exciting, so congrats to Albright.

I think the game also gave us a little insight into how the 2010 Saxons will look on offense without Manzer's ability to stretch the field.  It will be interesting to see what wide receiver and secondary recruits are brought in to fill out that units.  I would have thought that any number of wideouts would have been recruited this year with the prospect of catching balls from the Saxons' standout signal caller, so what do I know?

Looking at the positives, I finally got to see Alfred play in a playoff game and it was at home.  Plus, the team was immensely entertaining, featuring a number of record-breaking players.  But, I still have a number of things I'm looking forward to:  I hope to see a playoff win.  I hope to see Alfred play in Alliance and try the all-you-can-eat breakfast buffet.  I hope that Alfred State goes D3 and starts a rivalry game with Alfred University.  I hope that downtown Alfred gets rebuilt and revitalized.  I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.  I hope.

So, thank you all for your support.  Thank you Saxons for a fun season.  Only 9 months until two-a-days...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 23, 2009, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
FYI, bleedpurple is a Whitewater backer.  Not MUC.

dlip doesn't care if bleedpurple roots for the defunct New Jersey Generals with his recent posts and attitude there can only be one conclusion as to his posting creds....

bleedpurple (the whoever ****ing fan) = (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AwijYBFTscwU8xM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamegoeswild.com%2Fphotos%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2F200708_mongolia%2Fhorse_cock.jpg&hash=6b21bdc1df2d2c23827ab8d2e463a382e7e3a7ca)

Nice touch with the third person. Why am I not surprised?

"Jimmy likes Elaine! Jimmy thinks Elaine is hot!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 23, 2009, 11:48:15 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 23, 2009, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
FYI, bleedpurple is a Whitewater backer.  Not MUC.

dlip doesn't care if bleedpurple roots for the defunct New Jersey Generals with his recent posts and attitude there can only be one conclusion as to his posting creds....

bleedpurple (the whoever ****ing fan) = (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AwijYBFTscwU8xM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamegoeswild.com%2Fphotos%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2F200708_mongolia%2Fhorse_cock.jpg&hash=6b21bdc1df2d2c23827ab8d2e463a382e7e3a7ca)

Nice touch with the third person. Why am I not surprised?

"Jimmy likes Elaine! Jimmy thinks Elaine is hot!"

3rd person is how they roll in the LLPP, bleedpurple.  SF has found the board to be very entertaining and insightful. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 23, 2009, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 23, 2009, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
FYI, bleedpurple is a Whitewater backer.  Not MUC.

dlip doesn't care if bleedpurple roots for the defunct New Jersey Generals with his recent posts and attitude there can only be one conclusion as to his posting creds....

bleedpurple (the whoever ****ing fan) = (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AwijYBFTscwU8xM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamegoeswild.com%2Fphotos%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2F200708_mongolia%2Fhorse_cock.jpg&hash=6b21bdc1df2d2c23827ab8d2e463a382e7e3a7ca)

Nice touch with the third person. Why am I not surprised?

"Jimmy likes Elaine! Jimmy thinks Elaine is hot!"

George is getting upset!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 23, 2009, 12:58:45 PM
Bleedpurple...let me take some heat off ya...congrats to AU on a fine season.  However, it is now 3 seasons running with the E8 AQ losing in round 1 (twice at home).   Only when SJF is in the playoffs, does damage get done.

Several weeks ago, many posters got really bent out of shape at my suggestion that AU was not going to be the powerhouse East rep that everyone was looking for.  The prevailing 'logic' was that "well SJF already blew their wad by getting smoked by MUC" so AU must be the better, more capable team to represent the East. Some clamored that Union was going beat Salisbury and ratify Fisher's weaknesses.  Union was going to represent the East well....well they couldnt beat Susq, and Susq lost by many points this week.    AU did beat Fisher by 3 pts and earn the right to represent the E8.  

In the end, the E8 and LL blew their wads on themselves.  Boy, SJF sure did look strong down the stretch though...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 23, 2009, 01:04:52 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 23, 2009, 12:58:45 PM
In the end, the E8 and LL blew their wads on themselves.  Boy, SJF sure did look strong down the stretch though...

So did Norwich...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 23, 2009, 01:08:17 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 23, 2009, 01:04:52 PM
Quote from: Ty1983 on November 23, 2009, 12:58:45 PM
In the end, the E8 and LL blew their wads on themselves.  Boy, SJF sure did look strong down the stretch though...

So did Norwich...

Yeh, I am sure alot of teams looked good down the stretch.  Not knocking AU...just some of the arrogant posters (none of which were AU posters) on here who several weeks ago wanted to anoint AU as the the next Rowan.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 23, 2009, 01:21:21 PM
well it isnt too early to look ahead to next year.
fisher returns a ton.
not a whole lot of loss minus episcipo
look for bailey to have a great senior year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 23, 2009, 07:17:40 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 23, 2009, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 23, 2009, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 22, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
FYI, bleedpurple is a Whitewater backer.  Not MUC.

dlip doesn't care if bleedpurple roots for the defunct New Jersey Generals with his recent posts and attitude there can only be one conclusion as to his posting creds....

bleedpurple (the whoever ****ing fan) = (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AwijYBFTscwU8xM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamegoeswild.com%2Fphotos%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2F200708_mongolia%2Fhorse_cock.jpg&hash=6b21bdc1df2d2c23827ab8d2e463a382e7e3a7ca)

Nice touch with the third person. Why am I not surprised?

"Jimmy likes Elaine! Jimmy thinks Elaine is hot!"

George is getting upset!!!

Great catch Yanks!  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 25, 2009, 03:47:58 PM
Apparently there's nothing to discuss??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 25, 2009, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 25, 2009, 03:47:58 PM
Apparently there's nothing to discuss??

This is what happens when there are no E8 or LL teams left...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 25, 2009, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 25, 2009, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 25, 2009, 03:47:58 PM
Apparently there's nothing to discuss??

This is what happens when there are no E8 or LL teams left...

no one left but us mac teams....  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 25, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: uPBRmeASAP on November 25, 2009, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 25, 2009, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 25, 2009, 03:47:58 PM
Apparently there's nothing to discuss??

This is what happens when there are no E8 or LL teams left...

no one left but us mac teams....  ;D

Its also been 10 years since the last East team played in the Stagg Bowl.  And eight years since time stood still.  Hard to get really excited.  Plus there aren't enough Montclair fans on PP to make any real noise.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
HAHA. Well there you go. My bad. I apologize.

I guess that shows I'm as quick to go to politics as you, eh?

Post taken down.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 25, 2009, 06:54:42 PM
These boards ARE quiet.

Pep might point out that prior to the meeting of the A-Teams, there appeared to be no one from Albright posting. And, the few Albright folks Pep met in the parking lot at halftime appeared clueless, ranting about how they pulled two illegal U-turns on the Alfred State campus while trying to get to the game and how they couldn't figure out how they could "get into trouble in the middle of nowhere."

Obviously, they hadn't done their homework...

Had the conversation continued, Pep would have gladly told them about how Marlin Miller, who now resides in Reading, PA, was a graduate of Alfred University and that he had given AU millions to build the Performing Arts Center that hovers over the visitors' bleachers at Merrill Field.

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 25, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
HAHA. Well there you go. My bad. I apologize.

I guess that shows I'm as quick to go to politics as you, eh?

Post taken down.

I took mine down.  Don't generally mix politics and football when I'm talking about football.  But I would like see any team from the East in the Stagg... soon.  And win the damn thing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 25, 2009, 07:34:08 PM
Quote from: JT on November 25, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
HAHA. Well there you go. My bad. I apologize.

I guess that shows I'm as quick to go to politics as you, eh?

Post taken down.

I took mine down.  Don't generally mix politics and football when I'm talking about football.  But I would like see any team from the East in the Stagg... soon.  And win the damn thing.

+k JT for this statement. We need a serious contender to step up....and ****in soon!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 25, 2009, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: JT on November 25, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
And eight years since time stood still.  Hard to get really excited. 

Only eight years. The video from that game look like they should be wearing leather helmets. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HHawks on November 26, 2009, 02:34:11 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 25, 2009, 07:34:08 PM
Quote from: JT on November 25, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
HAHA. Well there you go. My bad. I apologize.

I guess that shows I'm as quick to go to politics as you, eh?

Post taken down.

I took mine down.  Don't generally mix politics and football when I'm talking about football.  But I would like see any team from the East in the Stagg... soon.  And win the damn thing.

+k JT for this statement. We need a serious contender to step up....and ****in soon!

Someone has to....How can Mount Union and Whitewater be this dominant every single year....honestly how does this happen in any level of football? The same two teams are #1 and #2 for like 5 years straight now...and they do it basically without even being seriously challenged...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 26, 2009, 09:07:42 AM
Quote from: HHawks on November 26, 2009, 02:34:11 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 25, 2009, 07:34:08 PM
Quote from: JT on November 25, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
HAHA. Well there you go. My bad. I apologize.

I guess that shows I'm as quick to go to politics as you, eh?

Post taken down.

I took mine down.  Don't generally mix politics and football when I'm talking about football.  But I would like see any team from the East in the Stagg... soon.  And win the damn thing.

+k JT for this statement. We need a serious contender to step up....and ****in soon!

Someone has to....How can Mount Union and Whitewater be this dominant every single year....honestly how does this happen in any level of football? The same two teams are #1 and #2 for like 5 years straight now...and they do it basically without even being seriously challenged...

Maybe this Saturday, that's why they play the games. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 26, 2009, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: HHawks on November 26, 2009, 02:34:11 AM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 25, 2009, 07:34:08 PM
Quote from: JT on November 25, 2009, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 25, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
HAHA. Well there you go. My bad. I apologize.

I guess that shows I'm as quick to go to politics as you, eh?

Post taken down.

I took mine down.  Don't generally mix politics and football when I'm talking about football.  But I would like see any team from the East in the Stagg... soon.  And win the damn thing.

+k JT for this statement. We need a serious contender to step up....and ****in soon!

Someone has to....How can Mount Union and Whitewater be this dominant every single year....honestly how does this happen in any level of football? The same two teams are #1 and #2 for like 5 years straight now...and they do it basically without even being seriously challenged...

On a serious note, JT really said it best about the dominent Rowan teams. I watched them from 2000 and they kicked ass, took numbers and burried you. They walked around with a swager. Montclair had a team sorta like that in 2003, but our QB got his ankle busted up big time in the NJAC championship game that we won at Rowan. He was a real talent but after the Rowan game he was not the same. I have not seen that swager in the NJAC in a long time (maybe Cortland last year) but they lost the Cortaca. I get the impression that if an East team loses to MUC by less then (21) points it's a victory. That sucks. I'm driving to Alliance to watch Montclair win. Is it a tall order? Yes and someone has to step-up and it might as well be us. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 26, 2009, 10:10:40 AM
rams1102, enjoy the trip and safe travels.  win or lose you will be glad that you made the trip to cheer on your team against the best out there.  If you guys pull off the upset it will make my drives to wesley games shorter since they would then host the east winner in dover should they keep on winning.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 27, 2009, 09:42:38 PM
From the Daily Dose:

Ryan's take: Mount Union 52, Montclair State 10
Keith's take: Mount Union 42, Montclair State 17
Pat's take: Mount Union 48, Montclair State 3

Ryan's take: Delaware Valley 38, Albright 17
Keith's take: Delaware Valley 35, Albright 21
Pat's take: Delaware Valley 24, Albright 18
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 28, 2009, 12:19:53 PM
Already 14-0 MUC with about 7 mins in the first qtr.

0-0 in Albright-DVC game also in the first.

7-0 Wesley in "South Region" action.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 12:26:47 PM
Mount pretty much moving the ball at will. Beautiful weather in Alliance, clear skies, and low 40's.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 01:04:28 PM
Montclair making a game of it but Mount leads 35-14.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 01:38:12 PM
"Keep Pounding"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 28, 2009, 01:58:35 PM
Redhawks shooting themselves in the foot today.  Threw 3 Picks so far (early in the 3rd Q).

Moving the ball well against the MUC D with 227 yards on Offense (186 yds passing).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 28, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 28, 2009, 01:58:35 PM
Redhawks shooting themselves in the foot today.  Threw 3 Picks so far (early in the 3rd Q).

Moving the ball well against the MUC D with 227 yards on Offense (186 yds passing).

MUC Punts.  IWU get's the ball back and throws another interception (4 total).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 28, 2009, 02:12:05 PM
Cecil's 3rd rushing TD of the day makes it 41-14 w/ just under 6 min to go in the 3rd.  Morring is having a big day.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 28, 2009, 02:18:07 PM
Oh man, Montclair just fumbled on their 1st play after the kickoff...MUC recovers and scores after a short drive.  48-14.  MUC now +5 in turnovers today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 02:24:08 PM
 Montclair cheering Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty. Totally classless
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 02:28:01 PM
I'll tell ya what, this announcer is an idiot!!!! and if I had the opportunity to ever meet him I would prob break his jaw!! Call the game, both teams are getting into it, the continued banter towards the "NJ Fans and NJ Player's" is unwarranted, I can't believe how mad I am right now....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 28, 2009, 02:29:55 PM
You should be more upset about the 5 interceptions and 1 fumble today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 02:33:26 PM
I am proud for my team!!! Mt. Union is a terrific program, it is a heated game both teams taking jabs, #@#@ happens, this announcer should announce and stop with the New Jersey comments...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 28, 2009, 02:34:50 PM
Quote from: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 02:33:26 PM
I am proud for my team!!! Mt. Union is a terrific program, it is a heated game both teams taking jabs, #@#@ happens, this announcer should announce and stop with the New Jersey comments...

Honestly I wasn't listening to it, had it muted and was just watching the stats.  I agree with you if they are getting personal.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 02:28:01 PM
I'll tell ya what, this announcer is an idiot!!!! and if I had the opportunity to ever meet him I would prob break his jaw!! Call the game, both teams are getting into it, the continued banter towards the "NJ Fans and NJ Player's" is unwarranted, I can't believe how mad I am right now....

If you had to listen to what he's hearing from your fans, you'd be apologizing. Or at least I'd hope so.

You s/b proud of your team, without a doubt
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 28, 2009, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 02:36:32 PM
You s/b proud of your team, without a doubt

Agree with that for sure!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MontclairFan on November 28, 2009, 02:41:46 PM
The announcer just said "I hope these fans enjoy their ride across the PA turnpike, that will be the highlight of their day".  Is this guy serious??!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 02:43:43 PM
This guy just won't stop lol, I mean at this point it is comical...Talk about classless, he has a forum to "announce" NCAA playoff game with one of the most heralded programs in all of college football and all he can do is take jabs at the players, the long drive home on the PA turnpike, the parents in the stands...The stupid little fake laughs, quite unprofessional, as I write this Boyson throws another INT, Jesus Christ...  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 28, 2009, 02:48:56 PM
Del Val is losing 27-3.  Talk about laying an egg... So much for the Challenge to MUC!!!  :D

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 02:51:19 PM
 Anybody who knows my history with both of them would expect me to agree that they are jerks, but really, they are the Alliance radio station announcers. Homers?  Yes.

I know it's hard to lose, but I didn't think the Pa turnpike remark was that bad. I'm sure if we were in NJ we'd be getting the farmer and red neck jokes. Chill  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 28, 2009, 02:56:45 PM
I'm not sure, I kind of agree that the commentary was a little snide... And we can hear them while they are at commercial...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 28, 2009, 02:58:31 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 28, 2009, 02:56:45 PM
I'm not sure, I kind of agree that the commentary was a little snide... And we can hear them while they are at commercial...

I think that is the majority of the problem.  It sounded like someone from the stands was yelling at them a bit ago, but couldn't really hear what they were saying.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 03:14:58 PM
Whatever, this guy isn't even worth the key strokes on my laptop, (FYI we can all hear what you are saying during commercial) Those fans you call idiots are family, friends, mothers, fathers, coaches family who traveled a long way to route their team on.....So if they got a little rowdy at times or cheered excessively at one point or another I will apologize on their behalf.

Congratulations to Montclair State, quite impressive considering we were picked 3rd in the conference...From the sounds of it, the second quarter seemed like a real offensive dual.  Hopefully this will help with recruiting and we will have another shot at the champ next year. Mt. Union, congrats and best of luck the rest of the way!!! Thanks to all of the MSU supporters, everyone drive home safely, see you in 2010...

"keep pounding"
Sam Mills
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 28, 2009, 04:55:57 PM
Just back to the Hotel after the game.

Everyone I met today from Mount Union were class acts. Very friendly and helpful. JT was correct about the buffet before the game. It is an event not to miss. The campus is beautiful. It was a wonderful experience. I got to meet Rascl but we could not find you Seventies. Where were you. I sat on the 50 yard line all the way on top. This MUC fan Waine was there and a real good guy. We had a lot of fun. Now down to the facts as I seen them:

The banner that states "The Machine" is well said. They are a machine and do everything perfect. If you make a mistake, you pay. We got wacked and we shot ourselves in the foot too many times. We sort of kept it in reach at half and continued to shoot ourselves in the foot. 5-6 picks against any team is not a recipt for success, especially MUC.

The Refs lost control of the game. MUC would hold (this is not sour grapes) and the refs would look the other way, leading to frustration. Waine even agreed with me. Then later in the game the refs would start to throw the flag, but it was too late. Please do not think that the refs cost us the game. They did not, but rather lost control of It. Your #11 was a thug and should have been tossed. It did not happen. I thought Coach K would have pulled the kid. Yes we did retaliate aginst #11 and it should not of happened, but the player reacted out of frustration. Then Coach K pulled him. Basically the refs caused this.

The MSU fans were getting calls about the radio announcer making dumb comments about MSU and NJ. I did not hear, but had to assume they were true. Yes 2 fans were yelling up at the booth and speaking their minds.

Congratulations to MUC, you guys are the real deal and in my opinion will be in the Stagg Bowl again. MUC is a great college and the people I met were class acts. Thanks for the experience. Next time, we owe you one.  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on November 28, 2009, 05:00:41 PM
Quote from: MontclairFan on November 28, 2009, 02:41:46 PM
The announcer just said "I hope these fans enjoy their ride across the PA turnpike, that will be the highlight of their day".  Is this guy serious??!!!

As a former resident of the Keystone State, I think a ride across the PA Turnpike can be a highlight of any day! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 28, 2009, 05:04:11 PM
Rams- Thanks for the middle of the road explanation. Sorry, I got sick in the early going and had to leave
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: runyr on November 28, 2009, 05:13:21 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 28, 2009, 04:55:57 PM
Just back to the Hotel after the game.

Everyone I met today from Mount Union were class acts. Very friendly and helpful. JT was correct about the buffet before the game. It is an event not to miss. The campus is beautiful. It was a wonderful experience. I got to meet Rascl but we could not find you Seventies. Where were you. I sat on the 50 yard line all the way on top. This MUC fan Waine was there and a real good guy. We had a lot of fun. Now down to the facts as I seen them:

The banner that states "The Machine" is well said. They are a machine and do everything perfect. If you make a mistake, you pay. We got wacked and we shot ourselves in the foot too many times. We sort of kept it in reach at half and continued to shoot ourselves in the foot. 5-6 picks against any team is not a recipt for success, especially MUC.

The Refs lost control of the game. MUC would hold (this is not sour grapes) and the refs would look the other way, leading to frustration. Waine even agreed with me. Then later in the game the refs would start to throw the flag, but it was too late. Please do not think that the refs cost us the game. They did not, but rather lost control of It. Your #11 was a thug and should have been tossed. It did not happen. I thought Coach K would have pulled the kid. Yes we did retaliate aginst #11 and it should not of happened, but the player reacted out of frustration. Then Coach K pulled him. Basically the refs caused this.

The MSU fans were getting calls about the radio announcer making dumb comments about MSU and NJ. I did not hear, but had to assume they were true. Yes 2 fans were yelling up at the booth and speaking their minds.

Congratulations to MUC, you guys are the real deal and in my opinion will be in the Stagg Bowl again. MUC is a great college and the people I met were class acts. Thanks for the experience. Next time, we owe you one.  :)

rams,
You're a class act.  Thanks for your perspective on the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 28, 2009, 05:13:37 PM
rams1102, glad you enjoyed the trip, sorry that the outcome didnt go your way.  Have a safe trip across the turnpike as there are worse roads you could have to take to get home.  One more win and I will be making the trip to see if Wesley can put a kink in the machine.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 28, 2009, 05:36:34 PM
Your a great guy Dave!!!! Thanks for all of your support over the years, I will let you know about the Montclair State Football Beefsteak we have every year, it used to be just alum but we opened it up to friends which you certainly are...I strongly recommend you don't miss this by the way, it's always the night before good Friday (everyone has off) some real characters show up!!

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's funny how the announcers failed to mention any of the extra curricular activity on the MUC side, this is the first I heard of # 11 doing anything wrong whatsoever. Guess he was busy trying to come up with some witty comments about New Jersey and his best stuff was a long trip on the PA turnpike, or laughing and saying things like " ahh typical NJ" good stuff and original, you have a prosperous future as a color commentator......

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on November 28, 2009, 06:12:47 PM
I missed the game and the accompanying drama - but me, Paulie Walnuts, Tony, Silvio and Chris do not like people talking smack about NJ.

As for the PA turnpike - if those landlocked knuckleheads ever want to get to the Jersey Shore they will be thankful for the engineering feat that is the PA turnpike.

And since I am on a roll, the PA turnpike was a radical invention when it was created and is still a darn fine road - just a wee bit too long.

ATB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rscl70 on November 28, 2009, 06:21:02 PM
Just got home from the game.  Did not hear the radio broadcast and I'm glad I didn't.

This was a hard fought game with a lot of heavy hitting going on.  MSU made it interesting untill Fischer was injured on a play where Millings was over zealous and was flagged for roughing the passer.

Millings is not a thug.  He's a tough, hard nosed player, but normally plays very much under controll. To their credit both of these teams were playing hard and taking it to one another and that caused some tempers to flare and mar an otherwise well played game.  As rams said, the refs lost control.

rams, nice to meet you.  I wish you a safe trip home.  Maybe we can do it again next year.  If your motel has Sports Time Ohio on the cable, check out the hs playoff game between Massillon and Glenville.  Could be a good one.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 28, 2009, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rscl70 on November 28, 2009, 06:21:02 PM
Just got home from the game.  Did not hear the radio broadcast and I'm glad I didn't.

This was a hard fought game with a lot of heavy hitting going on.  MSU made it interesting untill Fischer was injured on a play where Millings was over zealous and was flagged for roughing the passer.

Millings is not a thug.  He's a tough, hard nosed player, but normally plays very much under controll. To their credit both of these teams were playing hard and taking it to one another and that caused some tempers to flare and mar an otherwise well played game.  As rams said, the refs lost control.

rams, nice to meet you.  I wish you a safe trip home.  Maybe we can do it again next year.  If your motel has Sports Time Ohio on the cable, check out the hs playoff game between Massillon and Glenville.  Could be a good one.

Nice meeting you too my friend.  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2009, 08:27:33 PM
Shouldn't you take I-80 to get to Montclair instead of the PA Turnpike?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 28, 2009, 08:57:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2009, 08:27:33 PM
Shouldn't you take I-80 to get to Montclair instead of the PA Turnpike?

You're correct, I80 then to 287 to Oakland, NJ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 28, 2009, 11:05:01 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 21, 2009, 10:44:40 PM
Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 21, 2009, 10:03:49 PM
DVC could be the team that gives MUC a run for its money. I thought Susq was pretty good, and they got freakin' BLITZED today.

I'm going to assume you are kidding and laugh along with you...

Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:28:56 AM
@bleed: no, my post was not a joke. Read my columns, jerky, I don't make a ton of jokes, especially on how good or bad a team is.

Quote from: dewcrew88 on November 22, 2009, 01:34:52 AM
@raidertown: don't listen to bleedpurple's mindless drivel. There are a few really good people on these board and site that can answer some of those questions, hscoach is one right off the top of my head. Check out the north region and oac boards for more on muc. 

In retrospect, maybe my posts weren't the ones that were so mindless....
;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedHawk on November 29, 2009, 02:41:33 PM
Pat that's pretty funny hahahaha
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 29, 2009, 08:31:26 PM
Wow, the excitement in here is overwhelming
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 29, 2009, 08:32:47 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 29, 2009, 08:31:26 PM
Wow, the excitement in here is overwhelming

I don't think there are any Albright fans on Post Patterns.  therefore, it's going to be pretty boring. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 29, 2009, 08:43:20 PM
 I figured that after 24 hours had passed, and no action, we struck a dry hole
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 29, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on November 29, 2009, 08:43:20 PM
I figured that after 24 hours had passed, and no action, we struck a dry hole

Again had a good time and hope you are feeling better.

You guys should be proud of your support. I figure that 2/3rds of the fans at the game Saturday were alum's. The biggest group of posters from the East were Rowan fans. Besides me and a few others that's it from Montclair. You will find the East teams jeckel and hyde. You don't know who will show-up. When I walked into the stadium yesterday I said you guys don't look that big or that bad with the exception of the O line. When the game started I saw how "the machine" operated. Fast, agile and quick. You pay for each one of your mistakes. Kelly is a good QB for Albright and they will not give up. Watching film on MUC is one thing and getting into the live game with them is something else. I hope they beat you ;D but I am a realist, Can they cover HS Coaches spread? Depends if they can handle the pressure.

Looks like I hit a nerve with Coach K calling #11 a thug, I stand by my comments. I will respond more in a few days, but need to get some rest after this weekends drive and get ready for a business trip tomorrow. Good luck next Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 29, 2009, 10:14:01 PM
Glad you basically enjoyed the trip.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 1990 Champs on November 30, 2009, 03:52:59 PM
I think with MUC perpetually playing out of the east bracket, not many east region schools get very excited come playoff time!

I will be heading to Alliance to see Albright try to take down Goliath.  I have not seen MUC play, so my impressions of them are second (or third) hand.  According to many posts MUC's weakness (and I presume that is a relative term) is their secondary, in spite of their 7 int's this week.  Albright's quarterback and corps of receivers are among the best I've seen, but they are banged up on the OL.  If they can protect early, the Lions could make some noise.

Albright does not have impressive rushing stats, but in their two playoff wins, they were able to use their pass to set up the run, and ran the ball effectively in the 4th quarter.  Whether they have a chance to do that will depend largely on their D's ability to stop the MUC running attack.  Albright's defense was the real story in the rematch against the Aggies.  After not being able to pressure QB Isgro or stop their big RB Cook in game one, Albright brought a physical brand of football with them that they hadn't shown before.

The good news for Albright is that they have already exceeded any expectations that anyone had for them (except, perhaps, their own).  The fact that they were blown out by DVC just three weeks before dominating them in their second round game may give them the kind of confidence they will need in order to hand with the Machine. If that confidence translates into some early success against the Raiders, it could be an interesting matchup.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 30, 2009, 04:36:47 PM
I have to say Albright has exceeded expectations, but I did have them as my #1 rated team in the East Region Fan poll for most of the regular season until the loss to DVC. 

It appears being they are in fact the "last team standing" that perhaps I wasn't too far off in rating them so high earlier in the year?

Good luck to Albright in Alliance!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 30, 2009, 07:30:31 PM
I've only seen MUC play once this year (vs. Capital on the inet) and it seems like they are playing coverage similar to the Stagg Bowl last year (I did see that one in person).  It appears that they are playing to keep everything in front of them.  Not quite as aggressive as in the past, and possibly relying more on pressure from the front 4, rather than the blitz.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 1990 Champs on November 30, 2009, 09:28:01 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 30, 2009, 04:36:47 PM
I have to say Albright has exceeded expectations, but I did have them as my #1 rated team in the East Region Fan poll for most of the regular season until the loss to DVC. 

It appears being they are in fact the "last team standing" that perhaps I wasn't too far off in rating them so high earlier in the year?

Good luck to Albright in Alliance!

I wasn't shocked that Albright lost to Delaware Valley, but the way it unfolded was a huge surprise.  Before that game, I posted my assessment as to how/why Albright would beat Del Val, and absolutely none of it happened!  Then last week, the game really went the way I thought the first one would.  Kelly taking over, and the defense being able to make plays to get off the field on third down.  I guess I'd rather be more on target for week 13!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 1990 Champs on November 30, 2009, 09:31:18 PM
Quote from: kirasdad on November 30, 2009, 07:30:31 PM
I've only seen MUC play once this year (vs. Capital on the inet) and it seems like they are playing coverage similar to the Stagg Bowl last year (I did see that one in person).  It appears that they are playing to keep everything in front of them.  Not quite as aggressive as in the past, and possibly relying more on pressure from the front 4, rather than the blitz.

I am sure MUC has the athletes to do it.  If Kelly has time, he will find open receivers.  Albright is patient enough on offense to take what's there and Kelly generally will not force throws.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 30, 2009, 09:47:31 PM
If there is one thing you can count on, Mount Union WILL take away what ever you do best. Ask Montclair how the run worked in the first half? Nothing. I wouldn't expect much time to throw the ball. Thousand-one....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 30, 2009, 11:39:39 PM
Saturday afternoon, somebody please remember to turn out the lights in here until next year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 30, 2009, 11:49:21 PM
In looking at Albright College's statistics, there are two glaring things that leads me to believe this game will not be close. First, they are neither exceptionally strong running the game, nor strong in stopping the run. Giving up 3.8 yards per carry is a scary statistic to take into a game against Mount. Also, Albright College has not defended well in the red zone. They allow TD's at a 68% clip. I just don't see anything that will slow the Raiders on Saturday.

For the record, I am NOT bashing Albright College. They have had a fine season and they won a tremendous victory for their program last week in revenging a previous loss and advancing to the quarterfinals. They are to be congratulated on a great season. I hope everyone has a great time at the game on Saturday. Unfortunately college football is winding down. We have precious few weeks left to enjoy this.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 01, 2009, 01:19:33 AM
My two cents (not sure it is worth that...)

MSU was able to throw the ball effectively at times because their O-line was TREMENDOUS in the first half handling Mount's rush.  Their lineman were athletic, big, and could get out to the corner to handle Mount's two stud D-ends.  That being said, they were just as inept at run blocking, as they were exceptional at pass blocking. 

Mount has pressured everyone they have played this year, so Albright will need to do an exceptional job pass blocking to throw the ball effectively.  Mount is so quick to the football, it's just not a normal timing situation.  I think Rams was correct in saying that you can see it on film, but until you experience it "live and in color" it's just not the same. 

Any Albright fans that are making the trek, you are more than welcome to join some of us that hit the local Mexican restaurant for our now 12 year running "margarita breakfast" before all games.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 01, 2009, 06:04:57 PM
dlip is really hoping Albright can step up and give MUC a game. Bottom line, come this time of year, the best rises to the top and the best is simply MUC. Good luck to all the student athletes on Saturday!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on December 02, 2009, 08:58:27 PM
  Looking at a HIGH of 32 Saturday in lovely Alliance. Bring your woolies and hand warmers and a gallon of whatever the Montclair fans were drinking ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 02, 2009, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 02, 2009, 08:58:27 PM
  Looking at a HIGH of 32 Saturday in lovely Alliance. Bring your woolies and hand warmers and a gallon of whatever the Montclair fans were drinking ;)

Now, Now, Now Seventies. Wasn't it funny that Jordan never traveled. ;) Most teams coming to Alliance don't have (10) championships under their belts. You guys are The Machine. Your fans are used to watching The Machine. Put yourself in the position of the Montclair fans. I think you get my drift. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on December 03, 2009, 01:25:30 AM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 02, 2009, 08:58:27 PM
and a gallon of whatever the Montclair fans were drinking ;)

I would if I could. Gotta keep those "spirits" high. I've had my share this year. I had to announce for the Mogadore HS Band in a playoff game we were losing 35-0 at the half. It only got worse
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 1990 Champs on December 03, 2009, 04:11:17 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 01, 2009, 01:19:33 AM
My two cents (not sure it is worth that...)

MSU was able to throw the ball effectively at times because their O-line was TREMENDOUS in the first half handling Mount's rush.  Their lineman were athletic, big, and could get out to the corner to handle Mount's two stud D-ends.  That being said, they were just as inept at run blocking, as they were exceptional at pass blocking. 

Mount has pressured everyone they have played this year, so Albright will need to do an exceptional job pass blocking to throw the ball effectively.  Mount is so quick to the football, it's just not a normal timing situation.  I think Rams was correct in saying that you can see it on film, but until you experience it "live and in color" it's just not the same. 

Any Albright fans that are making the trek, you are more than welcome to join some of us that hit the local Mexican restaurant for our now 12 year running "margarita breakfast" before all games.   

In looking at the glass half-full, Delaware Valley was by far the quickest and most athletic team Albright faced all year.  I am sure that there is a noticable difference between DVC and Mount's speed, but at least the Lion's O-Line will have some better context when seeing the Machine.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 01:46:58 PM
Well people wanted other fresh teams other than Fisher to take on Mount Union in the playoffs...Results aren't too pretty. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on December 05, 2009, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 01:46:58 PM
Well people wanted other fresh teams other than Fisher to take on Mount Union in the playoffs...Results aren't too pretty.  

How does that freshly opened can of worms look?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 05, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
This ****in SUCKS...again the east is done  >:(

****IN SUCKS
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 05, 2009, 03:42:42 PM
Albright just wasn't up to the challenge.  Mount turns the ball over three out of the first four times they have it, and still leads 14-0 after the first quarter.  Albright's QB and wide receiver were quality players, but their defense really couldn't hang. 

Congrats Albright on a great season.........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on December 05, 2009, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 05, 2009, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 01:46:58 PM
Well people wanted other fresh teams other than Fisher to take on Mount Union in the playoffs...Results aren't too pretty.  

How does that freshly opened can of worms look?

More like a can of Whoop-A55!  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 05, 2009, 03:47:20 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 01:46:58 PM
Well people wanted other fresh teams other than Fisher to take on Mount Union in the playoffs...Results aren't too pretty. 

Does it even matter?  Fisher's score this year wasn't any better.  How does this conversation always revert back to Fisher anyway?  Who ****ing cares?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 04:12:28 PM
It seems like they'll hold on to that 26-14 LOSS until the end of time...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 04:12:28 PM
It seems like they'll hold on to that 26-14 LOSS until the end of time...

Ha, yeah PG like no other team ever holds on to their best year in school history.  Besides i was more speaking to the concept of people not wanting Fisher in the playoffs because they wanted other teams to take a crack at the best and see what they can do.  We found out as we always do that no team can do any better than Fisher, and most do worse.  So next year no need to whine about who could potentially represent the East because it's going to end the same way.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on December 05, 2009, 04:36:05 PM
MOUNT UNION - BEAST OF THE EAST - AGAIN
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 04:39:52 PM
Nothing like humility to make us all feel better. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 05, 2009, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 05, 2009, 04:36:05 PM
MOUNT UNION - BEAST OF THE EAST - AGAIN

Hey seventies,

You guys need to be drug tested or the East does really suck. ::) I thought Kelly and company would have put up more points then us. I thought our "D" was pretty good, but not in Alliance. I tip my hat to the Machine. Good luck the rest of the way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 05, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
rams:  Travel safe going home.  Other than the outcome of the game, I hope you enjoyed your trip.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 04:52:30 PM
Deja vu? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 05, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 05, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
rams:  Travel safe going home.  Other than the outcome of the game, I hope you enjoyed your trip.

Yor're killing me. If you guys did not score that last TD I would have won with Albright and the points. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 05, 2009, 05:01:44 PM
That's OK.  I lost too because of that stupid fumble into the endzone that should have been blown dead at the 2 with the RB's forward progess stopped.  Ugh.  That would have left it 48-3 on a 45.5 point spread.  Crap!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 05, 2009, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 05, 2009, 04:36:05 PM
MOUNT UNION - BEAST OF THE EAST - AGAIN

Everything in dlip wants to hammer this ****in post but unfortunately this post is dead on correct. Congrats to MUC again and again and again and again.....blah blah blah blah  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 05:04:02 PM
HSCoach, Your spreads always seem to be dead on with MUC, even with the high margin of victories.  That's pretty impressive. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on December 05, 2009, 07:53:58 PM
Booby, you really don't get it do you?  Rowan had the same spread the year before with their backup QB, so 2005 is irrelevant.   SJF had their chance and got stomped, the hope was that someone else would step up even though those that followed the east (including DVC peeps) would've agreed that conventional wisdom was that the East was straight up weak this year.  Nobody give a s**t about SJF in general.  You and Upstate are generally cool (and  though I'm loath to admit it, even SJFF82TY83 as a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut), you need to shut the F**k up now.  Why would anyone outside SJF want them to go deep in the playoffs this year, we already knew the outcome.  At the end of the day it's no different, but really - it's pretty douchy to chime in now, since SJF was still a 3 loss team (even if SU was decent, that loss eliminates you from national discussion period).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on December 05, 2009, 10:45:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 05:04:02 PM
HSCoach, Your spreads always seem to be dead on with MUC, even with the high margin of victories.  That's pretty impressive. 

We think HSCoach has a direct line to Coach Kehres during the games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 11:20:41 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 05, 2009, 07:53:58 PM
Booby, you really don't get it do you?  Rowan had the same spread the year before with their backup QB, so 2005 is irrelevant.   SJF had their chance and got stomped, the hope was that someone else would step up even though those that followed the east (including DVC peeps) would've agreed that conventional wisdom was that the East was straight up weak this year.  Nobody give a s**t about SJF in general.  You and Upstate are generally cool (and  though I'm loath to admit it, even SJFF82TY83 as a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut), you need to shut the F**k up now.  Why would anyone outside SJF want them to go deep in the playoffs this year, we already knew the outcome.  At the end of the day it's no different, but really - it's pretty douchy to chime in now, since SJF was still a 3 loss team (even if SU was decent, that loss eliminates you from national discussion period).

Yeah I won't keep harping on it believe me, but just to address one part of that.  the only reason i chimed in now was i was honestly waiting until all the eastern teams were done, i was holding out hope somebody would make it a decent game.  Today it ended, so today I addressed what people were saying earlier...that's all.  Booby is ghost like Swayze
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 06, 2009, 09:33:02 AM
I am not trying to pile on, and thump my Mount fan chest........however....I really believe the three teams Mount played this year were not nearly as strong as what they faced the last few years.  Certainly SJF from a few years ago, and Hobart from last year.  Obviously Rowan from 2005, and even Ithaca from a few years ago. 

W & J was the WORST first round team Mount has played since Hope from a while back.  MSU had athletic lineman, but not much else.  And quite honestly, Albright looked like a deer in headlilghts today.  Their coach is doing it the right way, and I am guessing he will get them to the next level at some point, just not this year. 

I truly think Mount will have to play much better if they want to beat Wesley.  The only thing Mount has as a trump card is how Wesley will respond to coming to Alliance for the first time to face "The Machine". 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on December 06, 2009, 05:18:33 PM
  "Turn out the lights, the party's over"  Dan"d"y Don Meredith
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on December 06, 2009, 08:35:07 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 06, 2009, 05:18:33 PM

 "Turn out the lights, the party's over"  Danny Don Meredith

You mean "Dandy Don" Meredith? When the threesome of Dandy Don, Frank Gifford and Howard Cosell were announcing MNF in its infancy, Alfred University awarded an honorary doctorate to Meredith back in 1971 during the dedication of the McLane Physical Education Center, thus making Meredith "Dandy Dr. Don"...another bit of Alfred trivia compliments of Pep.

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 06, 2009, 09:30:10 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 05, 2009, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 05, 2009, 04:12:28 PM
It seems like they'll hold on to that 26-14 LOSS until the end of time...

Ha, yeah PG like no other team ever holds on to their best year in school history.  Besides i was more speaking to the concept of people not wanting Fisher in the playoffs because they wanted other teams to take a crack at the best and see what they can do.  We found out as we always do that no team can do any better than Fisher, and most do worse.  So next year no need to whine about who could potentially represent the East because it's going to end the same way.   

Booby...they can only dish it out, like they all did 6,7 weeks ago....now they dont want to reap what they sowed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 06, 2009, 09:35:12 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 05, 2009, 07:53:58 PM
Booby, you really don't get it do you?  Rowan had the same spread the year before with their backup QB, so 2005 is irrelevant.   SJF had their chance and got stomped, the hope was that someone else would step up even though those that followed the east (including DVC peeps) would've agreed that conventional wisdom was that the East was straight up weak this year.  Nobody give a s**t about SJF in general.  You and Upstate are generally cool (and  though I'm loath to admit it, even SJFF82TY83 as a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut), you need to shut the F**k up now.  Why would anyone outside SJF want them to go deep in the playoffs this year, we already knew the outcome.  At the end of the day it's no different, but really - it's pretty douchy to chime in now, since SJF was still a 3 loss team (even if SU was decent, that loss eliminates you from national discussion period).

I got your nut right here PA...I'll give it to ya next year after SJF takes out 'Bart
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 06, 2009, 09:44:48 PM
What did we Sow?  Had fisher been in the playoffs they would have gotten their a$$ handed to them just like the 3 teams that actually did.. I'm not sure the point. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 06, 2009, 09:52:59 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 06, 2009, 09:44:48 PM
What did we Sow?  Had fisher been in the playoffs they would have gotten their a$$ handed to them just like the 3 teams that actually did.. I'm not sure the point. 

that is clear....like Booby said, there were posters who went on the offensive about how they didnt want to see Fisher 'take up the East's cause' this year.  They all wanted AU.   AU didnt make it out of Rd1.

The point is that those other teams did no better than the one nobody wanted.  Dont turn it around from what it was and claim Fisher would have gotten sliced also.

But....where is Fisher in the Final ERFP I wonder....certainly could argue 2 behind Albright.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 06, 2009, 09:57:34 PM
You did do a good job of reminding me to inform everyone to get their end of year polls in! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 13, 2009, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 06, 2009, 05:18:33 PM
 "Turn out the lights, the party's over"  Dan"d"y Don Meredith

Somebody at the Mount better find a throwing QB quick before Mount's party is over.  Strange day yesterday in Alliance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 26, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a Montclair fan and one who made the trip to see the Red Hawks play in the second round of the NCAA'S in Alliance, below are my thoughts on D3 Football and the East Region, below :

As far as D3 Football there are (2) teams in a league of their own. Whitewater and Mount Union. They would beat the balance of the Top 25 10 of 10 or 9 of 10 times. Then there is a group of approx 8 teams that are close but not yet at their level. Linfield, Wesley, Whittenberg, MHB, Central, St. John's, Wabash and N.Central. Then the balance of the Top 25 are Jeckel and Hyde teams. As a Montclair fan who bitched about our QB and the weak "O", we scored the most points against Mount Union in the playoffs (they came in the 1st half) with the exception ow Whitewater. Who would have thunk that. I did not expect (7) picks. ::) I also complained about the NJAC 100 man roster limit, but I just read that it also applies to Whitewater and the balance of the Wisconsin conference.

I think it's going to be a while until you see a dominent team like Rowan again in the East but time will tell. When the Top (4) teams in the country do not include the East, that's why you see Mount Union coming over. There are some teams in the East that may have a chance once in a while, but not on a consistant basis, I'm not sure. That's what makes D3 Football so exciting. I will cut and paste this to the NJAC Board and wait for any comments.


Everybody Have A Safe And Healthy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 28, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on December 26, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a Montclair fan and one who made the trip to see the Red Hawks play in the second round of the NCAA'S in Alliance, below are my thoughts on D3 Football and the East Region, below :

As far as D3 Football there are (2) teams in a league of their own. Whitewater and Mount Union. They would beat the balance of the Top 25 10 of 10 or 9 of 10 times. Then there is a group of approx 8 teams that are close but not yet at their level. Linfield, Wesley, Whittenberg, MHB, Central, St. John's, Wabash and N.Central. Then the balance of the Top 25 are Jeckel and Hyde teams. As a Montclair fan who bitched about our QB and the weak "O", we scored the most points against Mount Union in the playoffs (they came in the 1st half) with the exception ow Whitewater. Who would have thunk that. I did not expect (7) picks. ::) I also complained about the NJAC 100 man roster limit, but I just read that it also applies to Whitewater and the balance of the Wisconsin conference.

I think it's going to be a while until you see a dominent team like Rowan again in the East but time will tell. When the Top (4) teams in the country do not include the East, that's why you see Mount Union coming over. There are some teams in the East that may have a chance once in a while, but not on a consistant basis, I'm not sure. That's what makes D3 Football so exciting. I will cut and paste this to the NJAC Board and wait for any comments.


Everybody Have A Safe And Healthy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry xmas and happy new year to you as well.

My only comment, as I agree with virtually everything you 'said' is that the 4 #1's should not automatically be a reflection of the Top 4 in the poll as we have now seen 2 consecutive years a number 1 exit early due to this theory of 'we have to move MUC to the East to pave the way for the 4 #1's.

Only MUC and UWW have earned this benefit of the doubt. In 2009, do we really know that St. Johns was better than DVC or Albright?.  How bout in 2008? Wasnt Bethel a 7 seed in the North that year that beat St Johns and advanced all the way to the semis.

Rowan lost 5 times in the Stagg in the 90's, yet one could argue the only reason they made it that far is cuz they didnt have to face MUC until that point.  I do realize that during one run they beat MUC on the way, but I am just wondering aloud in the silence of the off season here.

If we all agree that MUC and UWW are the perrennial locks for the Stagg, and that MUC should always be shipped East, then the only conclusion is that no true East team will ever get a crack to be the next Rowan.

Look for example at the final Top25:  Albright and DVC are just a few spots behind St. Johns, who was a number 1.  We all know the parity in the rankings once you get past the 2 gods.  Yet hands down everyone argued that the 4 #1's have to go to the Top 4?  Well was St. Johns really a top 4?  Guess not.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 28, 2009, 03:41:52 PM
dlip feels we are in desperate need of a "Beast of the East" to arrive upon the scene soon and challenge the level of Eastern play to make a move towards that next level. Overall dlip feels the East beats the **** out of itself year in and year out while playing a high level of football. Unfortunately for us east region fans this "level" just is not measuring up to the level of the top 5-10 teams in the nation on an annual basis. What can be done to change this? Topic of discussion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 28, 2009, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Bench Press This on December 28, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on December 26, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a Montclair fan and one who made the trip to see the Red Hawks play in the second round of the NCAA'S in Alliance, below are my thoughts on D3 Football and the East Region, below :

As far as D3 Football there are (2) teams in a league of their own. Whitewater and Mount Union. They would beat the balance of the Top 25 10 of 10 or 9 of 10 times. Then there is a group of approx 8 teams that are close but not yet at their level. Linfield, Wesley, Whittenberg, MHB, Central, St. John's, Wabash and N.Central. Then the balance of the Top 25 are Jeckel and Hyde teams. As a Montclair fan who bitched about our QB and the weak "O", we scored the most points against Mount Union in the playoffs (they came in the 1st half) with the exception ow Whitewater. Who would have thunk that. I did not expect (7) picks. ::) I also complained about the NJAC 100 man roster limit, but I just read that it also applies to Whitewater and the balance of the Wisconsin conference.

I think it's going to be a while until you see a dominent team like Rowan again in the East but time will tell. When the Top (4) teams in the country do not include the East, that's why you see Mount Union coming over. There are some teams in the East that may have a chance once in a while, but not on a consistant basis, I'm not sure. That's what makes D3 Football so exciting. I will cut and paste this to the NJAC Board and wait for any comments.


Everybody Have A Safe And Healthy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry xmas and happy new year to you as well.

My only comment, as I agree with virtually everything you 'said' is that the 4 #1's should not automatically be a reflection of the Top 4 in the poll as we have now seen 2 consecutive years a number 1 exit early due to this theory of 'we have to move MUC to the East to pave the way for the 4 #1's.

Only MUC and UWW have earned this benefit of the doubt. In 2009, do we really know that St. Johns was better than DVC or Albright?.  How bout in 2008? Wasnt Bethel a 7 seed in the North that year that beat St Johns and advanced all the way to the semis.

Rowan lost 5 times in the Stagg in the 90's, yet one could argue the only reason they made it that far is cuz they didnt have to face MUC until that point.  I do realize that during one run they beat MUC on the way, but I am just wondering aloud in the silence of the off season here.

If we all agree that MUC and UWW are the perrennial locks for the Stagg, and that MUC should always be shipped East, then the only conclusion is that no true East team will ever get a crack to be the next Rowan.

Look for example at the final Top25:  Albright and DVC are just a few spots behind St. Johns, who was a number 1.  We all know the parity in the rankings once you get past the 2 gods.  Yet hands down everyone argued that the 4 #1's have to go to the Top 4?  Well was St. Johns really a top 4?  Guess not.

Rowan beat Mount Union in the semis in 1999 in Alliance. If you can't beat Mount Union in Alliance, I suspect it's pretty likely you can't beat UW-Whitewater in Salem.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 28, 2009, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Bench Press This on December 28, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on December 26, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a Montclair fan and one who made the trip to see the Red Hawks play in the second round of the NCAA'S in Alliance, below are my thoughts on D3 Football and the East Region, below :

As far as D3 Football there are (2) teams in a league of their own. Whitewater and Mount Union. They would beat the balance of the Top 25 10 of 10 or 9 of 10 times. Then there is a group of approx 8 teams that are close but not yet at their level. Linfield, Wesley, Whittenberg, MHB, Central, St. John's, Wabash and N.Central. Then the balance of the Top 25 are Jeckel and Hyde teams. As a Montclair fan who bitched about our QB and the weak "O", we scored the most points against Mount Union in the playoffs (they came in the 1st half) with the exception ow Whitewater. Who would have thunk that. I did not expect (7) picks. ::) I also complained about the NJAC 100 man roster limit, but I just read that it also applies to Whitewater and the balance of the Wisconsin conference.

I think it's going to be a while until you see a dominent team like Rowan again in the East but time will tell. When the Top (4) teams in the country do not include the East, that's why you see Mount Union coming over. There are some teams in the East that may have a chance once in a while, but not on a consistant basis, I'm not sure. That's what makes D3 Football so exciting. I will cut and paste this to the NJAC Board and wait for any comments.


Everybody Have A Safe And Healthy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry xmas and happy new year to you as well.

My only comment, as I agree with virtually everything you 'said' is that the 4 #1's should not automatically be a reflection of the Top 4 in the poll as we have now seen 2 consecutive years a number 1 exit early due to this theory of 'we have to move MUC to the East to pave the way for the 4 #1's.

Only MUC and UWW have earned this benefit of the doubt. In 2009, do we really know that St. Johns was better than DVC or Albright?.  How bout in 2008? Wasnt Bethel a 7 seed in the North that year that beat St Johns and advanced all the way to the semis.

Rowan lost 5 times in the Stagg in the 90's, yet one could argue the only reason they made it that far is cuz they didnt have to face MUC until that point.  I do realize that during one run they beat MUC on the way, but I am just wondering aloud in the silence of the off season here.

If we all agree that MUC and UWW are the perrennial locks for the Stagg, and that MUC should always be shipped East, then the only conclusion is that no true East team will ever get a crack to be the next Rowan.

Look for example at the final Top25:  Albright and DVC are just a few spots behind St. Johns, who was a number 1.  We all know the parity in the rankings once you get past the 2 gods.  Yet hands down everyone argued that the 4 #1's have to go to the Top 4?  Well was St. Johns really a top 4?  Guess not.

IMHO St John's would beat Albright and Del Val during the season or during the playoffs this past year. There is no dominent team in the East and I'm not sure when it will happen again. :(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 28, 2009, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on December 28, 2009, 03:41:52 PM
dlip feels we are in desperate need of a "Beast of the East" to arrive upon the scene soon and challenge the level of Eastern play to make a move towards that next level. Overall dlip feels the East beats the **** out of itself year in and year out while playing a high level of football. Unfortunately for us east region fans this "level" just is not measuring up to the level of the top 5-10 teams in the nation on an annual basis. What can be done to change this? Topic of discussion.

Agree 110% with you. Maybe we can open a "Thread" What does the East need to do to become dominent. It may pass some time during the Winter, Spring and Summer until it's time for some football again.  ;D If the schools in the East know their schedules now, they should post them or any part of them. Will Montclair play Wilkes, Rowan play Lycoming, Kean play Del Val? I know it's easier for the NJAC w/10 teams.

My first shot at the new thread would be to get Wesley into the NJAC. Maybe a 100 man varsity roster limit? It works for Whitewater. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 29, 2009, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 28, 2009, 04:37:04 PM
Quote from: Bench Press This on December 28, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on December 26, 2009, 03:48:32 PM
I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a Montclair fan and one who made the trip to see the Red Hawks play in the second round of the NCAA'S in Alliance, below are my thoughts on D3 Football and the East Region, below :

As far as D3 Football there are (2) teams in a league of their own. Whitewater and Mount Union. They would beat the balance of the Top 25 10 of 10 or 9 of 10 times. Then there is a group of approx 8 teams that are close but not yet at their level. Linfield, Wesley, Whittenberg, MHB, Central, St. John's, Wabash and N.Central. Then the balance of the Top 25 are Jeckel and Hyde teams. As a Montclair fan who bitched about our QB and the weak "O", we scored the most points against Mount Union in the playoffs (they came in the 1st half) with the exception ow Whitewater. Who would have thunk that. I did not expect (7) picks. ::) I also complained about the NJAC 100 man roster limit, but I just read that it also applies to Whitewater and the balance of the Wisconsin conference.

I think it's going to be a while until you see a dominent team like Rowan again in the East but time will tell. When the Top (4) teams in the country do not include the East, that's why you see Mount Union coming over. There are some teams in the East that may have a chance once in a while, but not on a consistant basis, I'm not sure. That's what makes D3 Football so exciting. I will cut and paste this to the NJAC Board and wait for any comments.


Everybody Have A Safe And Healthy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry xmas and happy new year to you as well.

My only comment, as I agree with virtually everything you 'said' is that the 4 #1's should not automatically be a reflection of the Top 4 in the poll as we have now seen 2 consecutive years a number 1 exit early due to this theory of 'we have to move MUC to the East to pave the way for the 4 #1's.

Only MUC and UWW have earned this benefit of the doubt. In 2009, do we really know that St. Johns was better than DVC or Albright?.  How bout in 2008? Wasnt Bethel a 7 seed in the North that year that beat St Johns and advanced all the way to the semis.

Rowan lost 5 times in the Stagg in the 90's, yet one could argue the only reason they made it that far is cuz they didnt have to face MUC until that point.  I do realize that during one run they beat MUC on the way, but I am just wondering aloud in the silence of the off season here.

If we all agree that MUC and UWW are the perrennial locks for the Stagg, and that MUC should always be shipped East, then the only conclusion is that no true East team will ever get a crack to be the next Rowan.

Look for example at the final Top25:  Albright and DVC are just a few spots behind St. Johns, who was a number 1.  We all know the parity in the rankings once you get past the 2 gods.  Yet hands down everyone argued that the 4 #1's have to go to the Top 4?  Well was St. Johns really a top 4?  Guess not.

Rowan beat Mount Union in the semis in 1999 in Alliance. If you can't beat Mount Union in Alliance, I suspect it's pretty likely you can't beat UW-Whitewater in Salem.

I dont understand where this fits?  I acknowledged that Rowan beat MUC once.  My point was that had MUC been in the East all through the '90's, then likely, Rowan would never have advanced to the Stagg 5 times, thereby earning the title "Beast of the East".

Maybe I misunderstood your post?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 29, 2009, 05:29:35 PM
My point was that in order to compete in the Stagg you have to be able to be good enough to beat Mount Union on the road. If your goal is merely to get to the Stagg and be blown out, then yes, avoiding Mount Union will get that done for you. But if you are good enough to win the Stagg then you are good enough to win at Alliance. They are not unbeatable.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 25, 2010, 05:36:45 PM
Thought I'd resurrect this page given this week's ATN podcast and discussion of playoff possibilities.

Here's an attempt at an "eastern bracket".  Note I am assuming the following:

UWW will be #1 in the "West" or "North"
Wesley will be #1 in the "South" (while it is possible that Wesley could be moved into the "East", I don't think there is enough precedent to make MHB the #1 seed in the South.  Also, there are several candidates for the West or North brackets which makes it easier for the Committee to move MUC east)
A number of teams in the Top 25 (e.g., #4 St. Thomas, #6 North Central) could be viewed as potential #1 seeds for the "North" or "West" 

This would effectively keep a UWW-MUC rematch until the finals as the likely final four (assuming top seeds won out) would be Wesley vs. MUC and UWW vs. St. Thomas which are both travel friendly.

1.  MUC - there's precedence and given the fall out of unbeaten teams, especially if MSU loses, the Committee will fall back on MUC as the top seed in the "east"
2.  MSU - even with 10-0 finish I think they'd get a #2 and at least host throughout until the trip to Alliance given the preponderence of teams with strong records and SoS in other regions
3.  DVC - ironically the "best team in the East" (IMO) will have the toughest draw having to travel pretty much every game after the first round.  That said, I think DVC is the favorite to make it to the Regional Finals and give MUC a decent game.  Of course the NCAA ratings that come out on Wednesday may have them as #1 so who knows?
4.  Alfred - E8 champ will host a first round game at Merrill then travel to Alliance (if for w/e reason Merrill isn't "playoff ready", then Alfred would travel to Glassboro - this happened to Hobart one year)
5.  Rowan - in as the Pool C given overall strength of schedule
6.  WNEC - NEFC champ will travel to Doylestown (only ~230 miles).  If Maine Maritime wins the NEFC then some shuffling would occur given the closest team would be SLU which is just under 500 miles away from upper ME.
7.  SLU - LL champs travel the ~350 miles down to Montclair
8.  SJFC - given the assumption SUNY M and Norwich will have effectively eliminated each other from Pool B, Salisbury will be out at 8-2 (due to a loss to Wesley), I think a second E8 Pool C team is possible given the overall strength of the conference this season and the fact if SJFC wins out they are still likely a Top 25 team and certainly are familiar with the trip to Alliance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 06:57:39 PM
My prediction of the bracket...

1) MSU "A" (10-0)
2) DVC "A" (9-1)
3) Alfred "A" (9-1)
4) Rowan "C" (9-1)
5) Fisher "C" (9-1)
6) SUNY Maritime "B" (10-0)
7) St. Lawrence "A" (6-4)
8) WNEC "A" (10-1)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 25, 2010, 07:01:41 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 06:57:39 PM
My prediction of the bracket...

1) MSU "A" (10-0)
2) DVC "A" (9-1)
3) Alfred "A" (9-1)
4) Rowan "C" (9-1)
5) Fisher "C" (9-1)
6) SUNY Maritime "B" (10-0)
7) St. Lawrence "A" (6-4)
8) WNEC "A" (10-1)

I hope you're right...it would be nice to have an "all east" playoff bracket...but I am not counting on it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
TGP -

If Montclair finishes at 10-0, they will likely be the #1 seed.  Remember, the Chairwoman of the Selection Committee is the Athletics Director of an NJAC school (Rowan).  

SLU, if they win the LL, would be a #8 seed -- no doubts on that one.  Just because a team comes from Pool C doesn't mean they are a lesser team in seeding.  Seeding is done as a second procedure after selection.  SJFC would be toward a #4/#5 seed (obviously behind Alfred if they remain at those loss numbers of 1).  

Overall, I have two problems with your team selections.  First, SJFC and Rowan probably don't both get Pool C bids when things shake out -- the East getting two Pool C slots is going to be a challenge, especially when SoS shakes out (Rowan's remaining opponents have W/L of like 4-17 and will likely fall below SJFC).  Also, SUNY-Maritime still hasn't lost.  The assumption that Norwich wins is a bad assumption still until it happens.  

The only support I can give you related to placing MUC in the East is the idea that the geographic fit still makes sense in a lot of situations (including SLU).  However, I'll take the Committee Chair and former Committee member we've spoken to at their word that a quality 10-0 team will not be punished with the rotation of MUC into the Region's bracket.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
So if a) MSU goes 10-0 and b) the Chairwoman sticks to her word (i.e., MUC doesn't get shipped in) and c) the east doesn't get two pool C's:

Who is your 8th team in the bracket (assuming that you have NJAC champ, MAC champ, E8 champ, SJFC/pool c, NEFC Champ, SUNY M/pool b and SLU/LL champ in "your projection")?

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 25, 2010, 07:47:15 PM
Please Please Please can we have a year without UMU in the East Bracket..yes dlip knows it really is not the "East" bracket even though its called the ****ing "East" bracket.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 25, 2010, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 07:03:52 PM

However, I'll take the Committee Chair and former Committee member we've spoken to at their word that a quality 10-0 team will not be punished with the rotation of MUC into the Region's bracket.

I hope not...especially with the NJAC, which, unlike the E8 and LL are pretty much locked into a schedule. Granted, Westfield State isn't much for the one OOC bid, but it would really stink if we got the Boise treatment on an unbeaten team. I've been critical of the East for failing to get a 10-0 team through before and getting MUC as a punishment. But this would stink.

My question is, is Montclair really a better #1 seed that DVC? Obviously, the Top 25 poll doesn't factor in, but there's got to be a reason they're seven spots higher. Is a 10-0 Montclair really better than a 9-1 DVC?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 07:57:50 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
So if a) MSU goes 10-0 and b) the Chairwoman sticks to her word (i.e., MUC doesn't get shipped in) and c) the east doesn't get two pool C's:

Who is your 8th team in the bracket (assuming that you have NJAC champ, MAC champ, E8 champ, SJFC/pool c, NEFC Champ, SUNY M/pool b and SLU/LL champ in "your projection")?



Let's say Muhlenburgh wins the CC via tiebreaker over Ursinus (who would probably end up 9-1and could be in line for a Pool C) you could see either of those teams brought in....

Or you can send up a Pool C OAC team from the North Region...

Personally I would feel bad for the NJAC fans if they end up with their top teams being 10-0, 9-1, 9-1 and only getting one bid...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on October 25, 2010, 08:24:40 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 07:57:50 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
So if a) MSU goes 10-0 and b) the Chairwoman sticks to her word (i.e., MUC doesn't get shipped in) and c) the east doesn't get two pool C's:

Who is your 8th team in the bracket (assuming that you have NJAC champ, MAC champ, E8 champ, SJFC/pool c, NEFC Champ, SUNY M/pool b and SLU/LL champ in "your projection")?



Let's say Muhlenburgh wins the CC via tiebreaker over Ursinus (who would probably end up 9-1and could be in line for a Pool C) you could see either of those teams brought in....

Or you can send up a Pool C OAC team from the North Region...

Personally I would feel bad for the NJAC fans if they end up with their top teams being 10-0, 9-1, 9-1 and only getting one bid...

SUNY-Maritime's opponents have a combined 17-44 record.  I just really am not sold that they are a definite Pool B by going undefeated.  There is a good chance Norwich beats them anyway which will end this nonsense, but let's be honest, St. Lawrence probably beats SUNY-M by 3-4 TDs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:27:08 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
So if a) MSU goes 10-0 and b) the Chairwoman sticks to her word (i.e., MUC doesn't get shipped in) and c) the east doesn't get two pool C's:

Who is your 8th team in the bracket (assuming that you have NJAC champ, MAC champ, E8 champ, SJFC/pool c, NEFC Champ, SUNY M/pool b and SLU/LL champ in "your projection")?



I don't need an 8th team from the East to complete a bracket.  As I always say, don't look at this process in a vacuum -- the South and/or North will likely have 9 or 10 teams, requiring a rotation of a "border team" (a team close to the East Region's borderlines for travel purposes) to alleviate oversubscription in that other bracket.  So, long story short, I currently feel that just 7 teams from the East qualify.  Last year, remember, MUC and W&J were both imported -- this is just a reminder of the flexibility the Committee has here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:35:39 PM
LD -

The current Committee (granted, there was some reshuffling, but the Chair remains) has placed special emphasis on W/L record -- this was later revised by Coach Delong to the idea that if comparisons cannot be made between two teams being reviewed and W/L records are different, the better W/L record will prevail.  Can Wesley or Salisbury or CWR be directly compared to SUNY-Maritime?  Probably not -- perceptions notwithstanding.  Even if SUNY-Maritime didn't get in through Pool B, would the Committee pass over an underrated team nine times when the Norwich AD is part of the process?  Doubtful.  SUNY-Maritime is a lock at 10-0 based on what I know and have seen so far.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on October 25, 2010, 08:38:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:35:39 PM
LD -

The current Committee (granted, there was some reshuffling, but the Chair remains) has placed special emphasis on W/L record -- this was later revised by Coach Delong to the idea that if comparisons cannot be made between two teams being reviewed and W/L records are different, the better W/L record will prevail.  Can Wesley or Salisbury or CWR be directly compared to SUNY-Maritime?  Probably not -- perceptions notwithstanding.  Even if SUNY-Maritime didn't get in through Pool B, would the Committee pass over an underrated team nine times when the Norwich AD is part of the process?  Doubtful.  SUNY-Maritime is a lock at 10-0 based on what I know and have seen so far.

Well go Norwich then!  It would be embarrassing for them to lose 86-0 in the first round.  If SUNY-M gets in, I hope Mount Union is the 1 seed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:41:16 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 25, 2010, 08:38:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:35:39 PM
LD -

The current Committee (granted, there was some reshuffling, but the Chair remains) has placed special emphasis on W/L record -- this was later revised by Coach Delong to the idea that if comparisons cannot be made between two teams being reviewed and W/L records are different, the better W/L record will prevail.  Can Wesley or Salisbury or CWR be directly compared to SUNY-Maritime?  Probably not -- perceptions notwithstanding.  Even if SUNY-Maritime didn't get in through Pool B, would the Committee pass over an underrated team nine times when the Norwich AD is part of the process?  Doubtful.  SUNY-Maritime is a lock at 10-0 based on what I know and have seen so far.

Well go Norwich then!  It would be embarrassing for them to lose 86-0 in the first round.  If SUNY-M gets in, I hope Mount Union is the 1 seed.

Why?  SUNY-Maritime probably would be no worse than a 3-seed and wouldn't face MUC until the 3rd Round.  Regional Rankings later this week will likely shed light on this question, though.


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:52:58 PM
Here's my prediction of how the East Region Rankings will look when they get released this week:

1) Montclair State
2) Delaware Valley
3) SUNY-Maritime
4) Alfred
5) Rowan
6) St. John Fisher
7) Western New England
8) Norwich
9) Cortland State
10) Maine Maritime
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

You could put me into the "hope MSU goes 10-0 to keep UMU out of the East" category...

It's not a slight to Cortland in any way, just hoping to delay the inevitable as long as possible...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 25, 2010, 08:24:40 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 07:57:50 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
So if a) MSU goes 10-0 and b) the Chairwoman sticks to her word (i.e., MUC doesn't get shipped in) and c) the east doesn't get two pool C's:

Who is your 8th team in the bracket (assuming that you have NJAC champ, MAC champ, E8 champ, SJFC/pool c, NEFC Champ, SUNY M/pool b and SLU/LL champ in "your projection")?



Let's say Muhlenburgh wins the CC via tiebreaker over Ursinus (who would probably end up 9-1and could be in line for a Pool C) you could see either of those teams brought in....

Or you can send up a Pool C OAC team from the North Region...

Personally I would feel bad for the NJAC fans if they end up with their top teams being 10-0, 9-1, 9-1 and only getting one bid...

SUNY-Maritime's opponents have a combined 17-44 record.  I just really am not sold that they are a definite Pool B by going undefeated.  There is a good chance Norwich beats them anyway which will end this nonsense, but let's be honest, St. Lawrence probably beats SUNY-M by 3-4 TDs.

Yeah I'm not saying I agree with SUNY-M getting in at 10-0, but it's the NCAA we're dealing with.  They have 3 pool B bids to give out and someone has to get it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

Nobody is discounting that scenario.  What we're doing is assuming all teams win out at this point (or better stated, the season stops today and the Committee meets).  It's not the Committee's job to predict game results -- nor is it ours when we "play" Committee members for a day here.  This isn't the board for hurt egos and the such -- this is more for educated guesses as to where things stand right now.





Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 25, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:27:08 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM
So if a) MSU goes 10-0 and b) the Chairwoman sticks to her word (i.e., MUC doesn't get shipped in) and c) the east doesn't get two pool C's:

Who is your 8th team in the bracket (assuming that you have NJAC champ, MAC champ, E8 champ, SJFC/pool c, NEFC Champ, SUNY M/pool b and SLU/LL champ in "your projection")?



I don't need an 8th team from the East to complete a bracket.  As I always say, don't look at this process in a vacuum -- the South and/or North will likely have 9 or 10 teams, requiring a rotation of a "border team" (a team close to the East Region's borderlines for travel purposes) to alleviate oversubscription in that other bracket.  So, long story short, I currently feel that just 7 teams from the East qualify.  Last year, remember, MUC and W&J were both imported -- this is just a reminder of the flexibility the Committee has here.

I wasn't insinuating you needed the 8th team to be from the "east", just trying to get a sense what teams could potentially be "shipped in" based on what you know of other regions as a Top 25 voter.

The Cortland poster has a point - MSU isn't a lock yet - but like the other comments, I hope they win out to see if they do in fact get "rewarded".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 25, 2010, 09:26:12 PM
bottom line is the committee plays the record and that is it...period! A team could schedule to play the sister mary school of the blind every week go 10-0 and get a bid over a team that goes 9-1 playing top 25 schools every week. strength of schedule, etc...means NOTHING! The committee has shown every year that you should play the easiest schedule possible and it will be rewarded. To me it is a highly flawed way of selecting teams and ruins the chances of seeing really good teams matchup during the regular season.....Would love to see DVC go play sjf/ithaca/alfred/hobart/etc...during the regular season but the committee basically penalizes you for taking that risk. Look at this year...DVC goes to Wesley's field loses late 21-17. Now they get punished for having the strongest  strength of schedule in the country (listed earlier by tgp) and losing to the #3 team on the road. Everyone now see's them as a #2 or #3 seed in the east when imho they probably should be the #1 seed. People can argue Montclair but to this person their s.o.s. doesn't come close to matching up. To me the selection committee has very little credibility when they continually reward teams for playing cupcakes and that is how you get blowouts and embarrassing losses in the first round.


EDIT: Yes we know that budgets factor in to this a part as well so that has to carry some weight hence also why you get a lesser field. So before people blast my views thought pbr would throw that out there....just venting a little that is all...tired of seeing good teams not make over a team that schedules a bunch of weak sisters
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 09:48:59 PM
I agree with everything you said PBR, DVC is the best team in the East Region right now, but we all know it's the NCAA and their system we're dealing with...

Based on the field results and if they don't import UMU, DVC should be the #1 seed in the East but we all know it's not going to happen.  Yes it sucks but it is what it is...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 25, 2010, 09:53:19 PM
I agree that DVC may be the best team in the "east" but we have to remember that the playoffs simply aren't broken down like that anymore.  Basically if you want to be the #1 team in the east, you are going to have to be the #4 team in the country.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:53:19 PM
I agree that DVC may be the best team in the "east" but we have to remember that the playoffs simply aren't broken down like that anymore.  Basically if you want to be the #1 team in the east, you are going to have to be the #4 team in the country.

As well as being undefeated...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

Nobody is discounting that scenario.  What we're doing is assuming all teams win out at this point (or better stated, the season stops today and the Committee meets).  It's not the Committee's job to predict game results -- nor is it ours when we "play" Committee members for a day here.  This isn't the board for hurt egos and the such -- this is more for educated guesses as to where things stand right now.







Hurt egos?  I must have missed the memo prohibiting what-if scenarios in the Plaoff DISCUSSION Board.  Get over yourself.  There isn't a fan in the NJAC who isn't aware of the possibility and interested in how such a scenario would play out.  Excuse me for thinking you might have some input.  Give me a freakin break you pompous a**
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 25, 2010, 09:58:09 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:53:19 PM
I agree that DVC may be the best team in the "east" but we have to remember that the playoffs simply aren't broken down like that anymore.  Basically if you want to be the #1 team in the east, you are going to have to be the #4 team in the country.

As well as being undefeated...

BINGO!!   YAHTZEE!! That was the point being made...its all about the record...to this person it stinks when you penalize teams for playing hard schedules and good opponents. You get a watered down product...as others have said it is what it is....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 25, 2010, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:53:19 PM
I agree that DVC may be the best team in the "east" but we have to remember that the playoffs simply aren't broken down like that anymore.  Basically if you want to be the #1 team in the east, you are going to have to be the #4 team in the country.

As well as being undefeated...

Yea but being undefeated and being one of the top 4 teams in the country usually goes hand in hand.  I'd bet that if MUC played UWW this year and lost by 3, MUC would still get a #1 seed (and/or be ranked in the top 4 still).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 25, 2010, 10:06:21 PM
Would love to see (won't ever happen) the selection committee use the ncaa men's hoops analysis for selection....reward teams for playing good competition and going on the road and playing top teams. It separates teams, let's you see who is for real and who is a pretender. When you force teams to play cupcakes it's very difficult to tell who is worthy for selection. You eventually will end up with a ton of teams 10-0/9-1 and all playing the weakest competitors and have no idea who is for real. Thus blowouts in the first round and no idea if you really have a true national champion. Who says a team the got left out couldn't of gotten hot and run the table....likely? no but still you can't say for sure so it leaves the question of did the best team really win the national championship....just food for thought
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 25, 2010, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

Nobody is discounting that scenario.  What we're doing is assuming all teams win out at this point (or better stated, the season stops today and the Committee meets).  It's not the Committee's job to predict game results -- nor is it ours when we "play" Committee members for a day here.  This isn't the board for hurt egos and the such -- this is more for educated guesses as to where things stand right now.







Hurt egos?  I must have missed the memo prohibiting what-if scenarios in the Plaoff DISCUSSION Board.  Get over yourself.  There isn't a fan in the NJAC who isn't aware of the possibility and interested in how such a scenario would play out.  Excuse me for thinking you might have some input.  Give me a freakin break you pompous a**

I think you are probably misinterpreting and overreacting to what Frank said.  Pretty much, we are discussing the situation AS IT STANDS right now. 

Of course, you are allowed to discuss the what if Cortland wins, but right now the discussion was what would happen in the situation we currently have (Montclair Undefeated). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 25, 2010, 10:21:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:53:19 PM
I agree that DVC may be the best team in the "east" but we have to remember that the playoffs simply aren't broken down like that anymore.  Basically if you want to be the #1 team in the east, you are going to have to be the #4 team in the country.

As well as being undefeated...

Yea but being undefeated and being one of the top 4 teams in the country usually goes hand in hand.  I'd bet that if MUC played UWW this year and lost by 3, MUC would still get a #1 seed.

They were a #2 seed in their region in 2005 when they lost to Ohio Northern...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 02:20:07 AM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:56:06 PM
Hurt egos?  I must have missed the memo prohibiting what-if scenarios in the Plaoff DISCUSSION Board.  Get over yourself.  There isn't a fan in the NJAC who isn't aware of the possibility and interested in how such a scenario would play out.  Excuse me for thinking you might have some input.  Give me a freakin break you pompous a**

Glad we didn't have this discussion in a bar on the Jersey shore -- you might go all Snooki on me or something...

And we all know I'm pompous.  I've never hidden from that.  I'm part of a verb here, for Christ's sake (see Upstate's usage of "going all Frank Rossi on" people).  However, even PG and PBR can see my point through my pomposity.  :-)

Anyway, what input would I have since your conference has set up a tiebreaker for which the NCAA has no published numbers to aid us in figuring out the results (see my NJAC post).  There's a good chance that even if Cortland were to beat Montclair, Montclair still wins the Pool A bid.  And if that's the case, then Rowan would still be placed ahead of Cortland (and SJF may be ahaead of Rowan).  Thus, Cortland would potentially never see the light of day in the selection since it might never be the top team left in the East's picking order for Pool C purposes.

That's what I mean, though -- we can't make a determination of what your school's chances are if there is a merry-go-round tie.  All I can say is, assuming Rowan, Montclair and Cortland all end up with one conference loss, Cortland MUST win the conference to get in the playoffs based on the loss to Rowan.  Liberty League fans wonder, "What if SLU loses two and Hobart wins out?"  However, TGP isn't asking that question here because he understands that we have to assess what we can assess for the time being.  We have individual conference message boards to get into all that -- and the ERFP Board to measure where our teams fall in the fans' opinions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 02:24:29 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:52:58 PM
Here's my prediction of how the East Region Rankings will look when they get released this week:

1) Montclair State
2) Delaware Valley
3) SUNY-Maritime
4) Alfred
5) Rowan
6) St. John Fisher
7) Western New England
8) Norwich
9) Cortland State
10) Maine Maritime

Just to give an indication of how different my own beliefs are (along the lines of PBR's post regarding how different our perceptions and the Committee's use of criteria are), here is my Lambert Poll ballot from this week with Wesley, Thomas More, Ursinus and Salisbury removed (so I only go six deep here -- you'll get my point, though):

1) Delaware Valley
2) Montclair State
3) Rowan
4) Alfred
5) St. John Fisher
6) SUNY-Maritime

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 26, 2010, 08:09:26 AM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 10:21:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 25, 2010, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 25, 2010, 09:53:19 PM
I agree that DVC may be the best team in the "east" but we have to remember that the playoffs simply aren't broken down like that anymore.  Basically if you want to be the #1 team in the east, you are going to have to be the #4 team in the country.

As well as being undefeated...

Yea but being undefeated and being one of the top 4 teams in the country usually goes hand in hand.  I'd bet that if MUC played UWW this year and lost by 3, MUC would still get a #1 seed.

They were a #2 seed in their region in 2005 when they lost to Ohio Northern...

A 2005 Ohio Northern is not a 2010 UWW. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
TGP -

If Montclair finishes at 10-0, they will likely be the #1 seed.  Remember, the Chairwoman of the Selection Committee is the Athletics Director of an NJAC school (Rowan).  

SLU, if they win the LL, would be a #8 seed -- no doubts on that one.  Just because a team comes from Pool C doesn't mean they are a lesser team in seeding.  Seeding is done as a second procedure after selection.  SJFC would be toward a #4/#5 seed (obviously behind Alfred if they remain at those loss numbers of 1).  

Overall, I have two problems with your team selections.  First, SJFC and Rowan probably don't both get Pool C bids when things shake out -- the East getting two Pool C slots is going to be a challenge, especially when SoS shakes out (Rowan's remaining opponents have W/L of like 4-17 and will likely fall below SJFC).  Also, SUNY-Maritime still hasn't lost.  The assumption that Norwich wins is a bad assumption still until it happens.  

The only support I can give you related to placing MUC in the East is the idea that the geographic fit still makes sense in a lot of situations (including SLU).  However, I'll take the Committee Chair and former Committee member we've spoken to at their word that a quality 10-0 team will not be punished with the rotation of MUC into the Region's bracket.

The AD from Rowan is supposed to remove herself from the process when an NJAC team comes up.  At least this is how I was told the NCAA does it for basketball, I would think they would have the same requirement for football.

The NJAC does have a new blood or Rose Bowl rule, see the post from Fran Elia on the NJAC board outlining the NJAC tiebreakers.  Frank does have a good argument against some of them but they are what they are for now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 09:53:32 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
TGP -

If Montclair finishes at 10-0, they will likely be the #1 seed.  Remember, the Chairwoman of the Selection Committee is the Athletics Director of an NJAC school (Rowan).  

SLU, if they win the LL, would be a #8 seed -- no doubts on that one.  Just because a team comes from Pool C doesn't mean they are a lesser team in seeding.  Seeding is done as a second procedure after selection.  SJFC would be toward a #4/#5 seed (obviously behind Alfred if they remain at those loss numbers of 1).  

Overall, I have two problems with your team selections.  First, SJFC and Rowan probably don't both get Pool C bids when things shake out -- the East getting two Pool C slots is going to be a challenge, especially when SoS shakes out (Rowan's remaining opponents have W/L of like 4-17 and will likely fall below SJFC).  Also, SUNY-Maritime still hasn't lost.  The assumption that Norwich wins is a bad assumption still until it happens.  

The only support I can give you related to placing MUC in the East is the idea that the geographic fit still makes sense in a lot of situations (including SLU).  However, I'll take the Committee Chair and former Committee member we've spoken to at their word that a quality 10-0 team will not be punished with the rotation of MUC into the Region's bracket.

The AD from Rowan is supposed to remove herself from the process when an NJAC team comes up.  At least this is how I was told the NCAA does it for basketball, I would think they would have the same requirement for football.

The NJAC does have a new blood or Rose Bowl rule, see the post from Fran Elia on the NJAC board outlining the NJAC tiebreakers.  Frank does have a good argument against some of them but they are what they are for now.



Historically, football only forces self-removal of a member if the specific team the member represents is up for discussion.  I've never heard of the conference rule, KS.  Maybe Pat has?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 11:18:10 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 09:53:32 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
TGP -

If Montclair finishes at 10-0, they will likely be the #1 seed.  Remember, the Chairwoman of the Selection Committee is the Athletics Director of an NJAC school (Rowan).  

SLU, if they win the LL, would be a #8 seed -- no doubts on that one.  Just because a team comes from Pool C doesn't mean they are a lesser team in seeding.  Seeding is done as a second procedure after selection.  SJFC would be toward a #4/#5 seed (obviously behind Alfred if they remain at those loss numbers of 1).  

Overall, I have two problems with your team selections.  First, SJFC and Rowan probably don't both get Pool C bids when things shake out -- the East getting two Pool C slots is going to be a challenge, especially when SoS shakes out (Rowan's remaining opponents have W/L of like 4-17 and will likely fall below SJFC).  Also, SUNY-Maritime still hasn't lost.  The assumption that Norwich wins is a bad assumption still until it happens.  

The only support I can give you related to placing MUC in the East is the idea that the geographic fit still makes sense in a lot of situations (including SLU).  However, I'll take the Committee Chair and former Committee member we've spoken to at their word that a quality 10-0 team will not be punished with the rotation of MUC into the Region's bracket.

The AD from Rowan is supposed to remove herself from the process when an NJAC team comes up.  At least this is how I was told the NCAA does it for basketball, I would think they would have the same requirement for football.

The NJAC does have a new blood or Rose Bowl rule, see the post from Fran Elia on the NJAC board outlining the NJAC tiebreakers.  Frank does have a good argument against some of them but they are what they are for now.



Historically, football only forces self-removal of a member if the specific team the member represents is up for discussion.  I've never heard of the conference rule, KS.  Maybe Pat has?

I got that information regarding the basketball selection process right from the horses mouth at a game a few years ago.  This was from a former member of the selection committee.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 26, 2010, 12:16:17 PM
Pulled this from the General Board re Pool C.  Interesting that even if Rowan's SoS drops they could end up in a dead heat for one of the final Pool C bids.  That said, its looking like either Rowan or SJFC will be left out (among several other potentially 9-1 teams) this year:

Quote from: USee on October 25, 2010, 02:34:04 PM
I just listened to the ATN podcast and Pat and Keith do a nice job laying out the Pool C discussion as well as potential Regional Rankings (which will be released in version 1 this Wednesday). So it's time to get the discussion going.

According to Pat/Keith, the current possible Pool C teams in order (based on Strength of Schedule numbers) are:

Ohio Northern
Rowan
Wheaton (assume 9-1)
Coe
Redlands
St John Fisher

Bethel
Hardin Simmons
Pac Lutheran
Baldwin Wallace (in case they shock the world in week 10)
Central
Randolph Macon

What's distinctly possible this year (as opposed to years past) is that several 9-1 teams may not get into the playoffs. Heading that possible list would be North Central should they lose to Wheaton. NCC's SOS numbers are signifcantly below anyone on this list (which currently has more names than Pool C slots available). What's also worth mentioning is the fact that this list will likely both expand and contract each week as teams lose and drop off  and other undefeateds join this group.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2010, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 11:18:10 AM
I got that information regarding the basketball selection process right from the horses mouth at a game a few years ago.  This was from a former member of the selection committee.

That is not my understanding of the process. I am under the impression that Rowan's AD only must refrain from discussing Rowan.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 12:44:05 PM
My honest opinion of Rowan and SJF in the SoS numbers is that SJF will be slightly ahead of Rowan by the end of the season.  Now, granted, things can changed based on how their opponents do.  However, we do have a strange anomaly when it comes to Rowan and SJF:  two common opponents.

vs. Buffalo State:  Rowan +17, SJF +28

vs. Brockport State:  Rowan +8, SJF +43

Even if Rowan finishes a couple places ahead of SJF in SoS, this should normally create a counterpoint.  However, even if a Committee member must sit out on a phone call about selections of their own team, would the rest of the Committee REALLY not sway in the direction of that member?  Especially when it's the Committee Chair?  That would be hard for me to believe. 

Why is it important?  Again, the Selection Committee does not throw all Pool C candidates onto the table at once.  They rank each region's Pool C candidates with the help of the Regional Subcommittees.  Then, the top team from each of the 4 regions is compared before one is selected.  When that team is picked, the next team in that region rolls to the top of the list and the process is repeated until 6 teams are selected.  There is a definite advantage to being at the top of your region's list since there is a much better chance to be selected in six attempts than maybe as few as two or three attempts. 

This is something to watch over the next few weeks if things remain unchanged in the one-loss column.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 02:11:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2010, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 11:18:10 AM
I got that information regarding the basketball selection process right from the horses mouth at a game a few years ago.  This was from a former member of the selection committee.

That is not my understanding of the process. I am under the impression that Rowan's AD only must refrain from discussing Rowan.

Then I guess a member of the basketball committee lied to me or holds himself to a higher standard.

But I also doubt that the Committee chair no matter what school they are from would favor one of their conf schools over others in the process and to even hint at it is unprofessional.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on October 26, 2010, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 25, 2010, 08:52:58 PM
Here's my prediction of how the East Region Rankings will look when they get released this week:

1) Montclair State
2) Delaware Valley
3) SUNY-Maritime
4) Alfred
5) Rowan
6) St. John Fisher
7) Western New England
8) Norwich
9) Cortland State
10) Maine Maritime

I think this proves exactly the point many are making. SUNY-Maritime has played a weak schedule, their signature win to date being by a touchdown over an average LL team, Merchant Marine (who got crushed by Springfield 64-0). Yet, since they are undefeated, the will be ranked over 1 loss Alfred, Rowan, SJF, Cortland State.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 02:39:58 PM
Hey,
looking for guidance on how to attack the ATN about the East Region. Not that I can't come up with angles myself, but that I want to ask the questions you guys want answered.

I see it as a two-pronged thing, about the No. 1 seed deal in the East potentially being four seasons running if Montclair State loses, and about the East Region's lack of success in the national semifinals the past decade (i.e. they're not even getting to Stagg Bowls, much less beating MUC or UWW when there)

Is there something to it? A proliferation of football schools spreading the talent around? Just a coincidence?

So as not to disrupt the discussion here, you can leave replies on the ATN board under General Football, but I'll also read this thread if you're lazy.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on October 26, 2010, 03:09:42 PM
I'll be lazy Keith...without researching it, I think it is awfully hard to advance out of this division when MUC always seems to end up in the East.  Its not really rocket science.  We have leagues that beat up on each other (NJAC and E8 for example) that it is hard to find an undefeated team.  The tops of our leagues are strong, the bottoms are weak.  It is hard to get out of any league without a loss but SOS suffers because of the bottome of the leagues and few OOC games.  So a 1 loss Montclair, Cortland, Rowan, SJF, Alfred, IC in any year won't get the top seed and may not make the playoffs and MUC will be imported.  I don't know how we fix it?

I'll speak for NJAC ... with 10 teams we can't fix it unless we reduce the league to increase more quality OOC games.  Buff St. is leaving...that may help.  We will see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 26, 2010, 03:10:06 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 02:39:58 PM
Hey,
looking for guidance on how to attack the ATN about the East Region. Not that I can't come up with angles myself, but that I want to ask the questions you guys want answered.

I see it as a two-pronged thing, about the No. 1 seed deal in the East potentially being four seasons running if Montclair State loses, and about the East Region's lack of success in the national semifinals the past decade (i.e. they're not even getting to Stagg Bowls, much less beating MUC or UWW when there)

Is there something to it? A proliferation of football schools spreading the talent around? Just a coincidence?

So as not to disrupt the discussion here, you can leave replies on the ATN board under General Football, but I'll also read this thread if you're lazy.

I'd be interested to know how much the latter plays into the former. Are we caught in a vicious cycle of poor reputation leading to MUC leading to even poorer reputation?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2010, 03:28:28 PM
When one is building brackets, the Pool A bids coming out of South Region conferences are DePauw (SCAC) and probably Thomas More (Pres AC).

That looks like a good geographic first round match up (either a 6v3 or a 5v4), but where do you put it?  South Bracket? North Bracket?

Does Wesley get a SUNY-Maritime for a first round game?

Does an undefeated SUNY-Maritime makes a stronger Pool B case than a 2-loss Salisbury.  Salisbury beating Wesley is a different matter.

I think that Pool B CWRU could be moved to the "East Bracket" if Montclair State is undefeated.

The initial Pool C list of teams does not have a South Region team in the first six listed!  That really pushes teams eastward from the West and North Regions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 04:04:17 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 26, 2010, 03:09:42 PM
I'll be lazy Keith...without researching it, I think it is awfully hard to advance out of this division when MUC always seems to end up in the East.  Its not really rocket science.  We have leagues that beat up on each other (NJAC and E8 for example) that it is hard to find an undefeated team.  The tops of our leagues are strong, the bottoms are weak.  It is hard to get out of any league without a loss but SOS suffers because of the bottome of the leagues and few OOC games.  So a 1 loss Montclair, Cortland, Rowan, SJF, Alfred, IC in any year won't get the top seed and may not make the playoffs and MUC will be imported.  I don't know how we fix it?

I'll speak for NJAC ... with 10 teams we can't fix it unless we reduce the league to increase more quality OOC games.  Buff St. is leaving...that may help.  We will see.

its simple to fix...as pbr stated earlier...the selection committee really only looks at records...they give almost no consideration to strength of schedule/etc....so the DVC's/Montclair/SJF/Cortlands of the world need to schedule every easy cupcake they can schedule and come out 10-0 on the season. As discussed earlier on tgp/frank rossi's "in the huddle" their guest stated that if a undefeated team was in the east that MUC would not be shipped east. Forget playing good competition and interesting matchups, and making it easy for the selection committee to see who is a contender vs. pretender. Instead now you are going to have 8 teams that are 10-0 and a bunch at 9-1 vying for a the top seeds. Its a shame really the fans loose out w/ not seeing great matchups and the playoffs get a watered down product w/ massive blowouts in the first round 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on October 26, 2010, 04:39:32 PM
KMack......e8 board. Page 2575-2577. Check it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 05:03:24 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 04:39:32 PM
KMack......e8 board. Page 2575-2577. Check it.

Let me summarize:

Alfred is better than SJF.

No, SJF is better than Alfred.

Rinse and repeat 800 times.  Bring aspirin.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on October 26, 2010, 05:26:34 PM
Incorrect Francis. This was the discussion on people in the Northeast not giving a crap about football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 05:41:38 PM
regional rankings? don't they come out today? or did pbr mis-read something...looked on the ncaa site and nothing yet...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on October 26, 2010, 05:43:15 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 05:41:38 PM
regional rankings? don't they come out today? or did pbr mis-read something...looked on the ncaa site and nothing yet...

Pep heard they're coming out Wednesday. Today is Tuesday in Mayberry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 08:05:48 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 26, 2010, 05:43:15 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 05:41:38 PM
regional rankings? don't they come out today? or did pbr mis-read something...looked on the ncaa site and nothing yet...

Pep heard they're coming out Wednesday. Today is Tuesday in Mayberry.


Tuesday yeah, but what year?  1954?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 26, 2010, 08:05:48 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 26, 2010, 05:43:15 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 05:41:38 PM
regional rankings? don't they come out today? or did pbr mis-read something...looked on the ncaa site and nothing yet...

Pep heard they're coming out Wednesday. Today is Tuesday in Mayberry.


Tuesday yeah, but what year?  1954?

LOL..phew...can u tell pbr is stressed beyond belief don't even know what day it is for gods sake...2 coworkers on vaca each for 2 weeks....pbr trying to do the work of 3 and the 14 hour work day ain't cutting it...somebody light the lamp already need a drink desperately
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 05:26:34 PM
Incorrect Francis. This was the discussion on people in the Northeast not giving a crap about football.

Was definitely trying to look at it from the perspective of maybe the recruiting is watered down with such a big FCS and D2 presence, in addition to there being a proliferation (big word!) of schools. Thought of a couple people who had coached in D3's midwest and east.

Will check that out though. Appreciated as always.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:29:10 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 26, 2010, 04:04:17 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 26, 2010, 03:09:42 PM
I'll be lazy Keith...without researching it, I think it is awfully hard to advance out of this division when MUC always seems to end up in the East.  Its not really rocket science.  We have leagues that beat up on each other (NJAC and E8 for example) that it is hard to find an undefeated team.  The tops of our leagues are strong, the bottoms are weak.  It is hard to get out of any league without a loss but SOS suffers because of the bottome of the leagues and few OOC games.  So a 1 loss Montclair, Cortland, Rowan, SJF, Alfred, IC in any year won't get the top seed and may not make the playoffs and MUC will be imported.  I don't know how we fix it?

I'll speak for NJAC ... with 10 teams we can't fix it unless we reduce the league to increase more quality OOC games.  Buff St. is leaving...that may help.  We will see.

its simple to fix...as pbr stated earlier...the selection committee really only looks at records...they give almost no consideration to strength of schedule/etc....so the DVC's/Montclair/SJF/Cortlands of the world need to schedule every easy cupcake they can schedule and come out 10-0 on the season. As discussed earlier on tgp/frank rossi's "in the huddle" their guest stated that if a undefeated team was in the east that MUC would not be shipped east. Forget playing good competition and interesting matchups, and making it easy for the selection committee to see who is a contender vs. pretender. Instead now you are going to have 8 teams that are 10-0 and a bunch at 9-1 vying for a the top seeds. Its a shame really the fans loose out w/ not seeing great matchups and the playoffs get a watered down product w/ massive blowouts in the first round 

I kinda think this is true and have hinted at it in previous podcasts and such.

While the AQ system allows for you to schedule tough teams early and still recover by winning your conference, it leaves you at a, um, loss as an at-large team. The committee really has an opportunity to send a message by who it takes, and while I think last year they thought they were doing the right think by taking 20th-ranked W&J over unranked St. Norbert, it was ignoring the 8-2 Ohio Northern and North Central, etc., that really hurts the process.

It's the exact opposite of what the Dick Kaiser-led committee was trying to accomplished by taking 8-2 UWEC in '07 instead of Whitworth; reward the strength of schedule.

I think now, especially in Pool B and especially as it relates to being undefeated, wins are the only thing, and it tends not to matter who they're against. The losses matter, although the committee could really send a message by elevating DV this year, even though it's supposed to be about who you beat.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on October 26, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 05:26:34 PM
Incorrect Francis. This was the discussion on people in the Northeast not giving a crap about football.

Was definitely trying to look at it from the perspective of maybe the recruiting is watered down with such a big FCS and D2 presence, in addition to there being a proliferation (big word!) of schools. Thought of a couple people who had coached in D3's midwest and east.

Will check that out though. Appreciated as always.

I mispoke by the way.  2570-2577(not 2575)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 11:51:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 05:26:34 PM
Incorrect Francis. This was the discussion on people in the Northeast not giving a crap about football.

Was definitely trying to look at it from the perspective of maybe the recruiting is watered down with such a big FCS and D2 presence, in addition to there being a proliferation (big word!) of schools. Thought of a couple people who had coached in D3's midwest and east.

Will check that out though. Appreciated as always.

I mispoke by the way.  2570-2577(not 2575)

Much better Lewis.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:57:10 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

I've definitely written about NJAC tiebreakers before. I have a hard time keeping each conference's straight though, it's like we re-learn them each year on an as-needed basis. Sounds like we should make an FAQ with all these in it.

Here's what I found on quick search, from '05:
QuoteNJAC: Montclair State could force a tie with a win over an injury-depleted Rowan, with Cortland State in the mix after its 39-14 win over the Red Hawks and 24-16 loss to the Profs. The first two criteria of the NJAC tiebreaker wouldn't help, and the third level is opponents opponent's winning percentage against all of Division III, and fourth is opponents opponent's winning percentage in-region. That would seem to favor the Profs, as they hold a distinct advantage in the quality of wins index, which is similar in nature, and are currently 7-0 to Cortland's 6-2 and Montclair's 5-3.

I feel like Pat mentioned something similar in the podcast, about how they use a tiebreaker criteria in the inverse order of NCAA criteria.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:57:42 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 26, 2010, 11:51:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 11:29:54 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:19:55 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on October 26, 2010, 05:26:34 PM
Incorrect Francis. This was the discussion on people in the Northeast not giving a crap about football.

Was definitely trying to look at it from the perspective of maybe the recruiting is watered down with such a big FCS and D2 presence, in addition to there being a proliferation (big word!) of schools. Thought of a couple people who had coached in D3's midwest and east.

Will check that out though. Appreciated as always.

I mispoke by the way.  2570-2577(not 2575)

Much better Lewis.

The chance of me reading that entire discussion just went way down. :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 12:13:15 AM
Well, given there isn't a single Big East or northeastern school in the D1 Top 25 maybe not such a surprise then that the lower level  / DIII schools would rank as highly (or not) either....?

I think it says a lot when the eastern region's, if not all of DIII's, most academically elite conference doesn't even bother with the NCAA football playoffs.  The Liberty League, at least certain schools, have made more of a commitment to scheduling "like institutions" which shows more of a dedication to "fair competition" (i.e., playing institutions that recruit really strong students, etc.) vs. playing the "best teams available" and getting ready for the playoffs (for better or for worse).  Not to mention the largest eastern conference, the NEFC, has lots of teams with part-time coaching staffs.  Compare that to other DIII schools with in excess of 10 coaches.

I'd also add that the cost of attendance, committment to carrying DI (e.g., hockey, lacrosse, crew, sailing, squash, etc) and other programs in addition to football is a factor as well.   Not to mention the very competitive/selective admissions requirements that tend to be higher at eastern schools (with a few exceptions of course, e.g., SCIAC schools like Oxy, some small private lib arts institutions like Kenyon and Carleton, etc.). 

By way of comparison some WIAC schools cost around $10K/year and have a 10K student body vs. $50-60K pricetags and 2K student bodies.  The student body size  certainly creates an advantage for schools like UWW  - I'd compare it to a Cal State school joining the SCIAC - there'd be a huge competitive advantage for the Cal State vs. the Oxy's and Pomona's. 

The proliferation of schools, both upper division and DIII, certainly play into it - e.g., many of the "South" DIII teams are in PA. 

Could drone on and on but will cut it here.  Looking fwd to your ATN as always.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on October 27, 2010, 11:13:36 AM
Great post TGP, +k. Much better thought out than the "DIII football sucks in the northeast because no one barbecues up there anymore" that was being toted in the above-mentioned pages....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 27, 2010, 11:23:17 AM
We have had many discussions here regarding some of the struggles or percieved struggles of the East. dlip tends to see both sides of the coin regarding this discussion. One: Recruting has become a problem (competition, finances, D1, FCS, DII schools, and priority lying on other D1 sports). dlip can tell you one thing if UMU had D1 hockey dlip would bet there would eventually...evenutally be a slide in that programs success. Yet on the flip side dlip also feels that the East must somehow make adjustments and simply, "get better." There are just so many factors involved, to dlip, it is not black and white.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 11:40:21 AM
mosdef dlip....

Another, if not the biggest, contributing factors are the school's dedication (or lack thereof) to the football program and coaching.

Let's take MUC (now UMU) for as an (obvious) example.  The school is obviously behind the program 110% - how else could it support 100+ player rosters and fund 15 game seasons year in and out? 

Although UMU is expensive in comparison to other OH/midwest schools, the admissions selectivity isn't that high (i.e., 80-5% of applicants get in) and I imagine some fin aid makes it competitive with DII or other schools in its area.

Then there's coaching, and Kehres is clearly one of the best in the biz.  Winning begets winning and titles (especially in the ESPN era) will lure kids from all around (e.g., Pierre Garcon, the UWW QB who transferred from Cal Lu). 

Although not a great correlation given it was 30 years ago and the fact lacrosse is a much smaller pool of kids who play it and schools who have programs, but a big reason for Hobart's DIII lax dominance in the 80's was due to winning some natty's in the late 70's and if you played lacrosse in either NY, NE or LI you could go to Hobart and win a championship vs. going to SU or Cornell and potentially riding the pine. 

Probably the same deal for OH kids not quite big or fast enough to go to OSU or OU, MofO, BGU, etc so why not attend UMU and compete for a title EVERY YEAR?

That said, per my earlier comments, I think it's pretty obvious that most eastern schools are not putting as many resources towards football as they could.  Some of this is Title IX related, other cases it's b/c of D1 or other programs (e.g., squash, sailing) to bring in a "certain profile" (i.e., full payers).

The coaching is certainly strong at many eastern schools, but without the same level of institutional, alumni and support schools from other regions are getting, I doubt you'll see an eastern national champion in football in the next 20 years - especially as more DIII schools add football across the country.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 27, 2010, 12:00:45 PM
QuoteThat said, per my earlier comments, I think it's pretty obvious that most eastern schools are not putting as many resources towards football as they could.  quote]

Hitting the nail right on the head TGP, right on it.  ;)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on October 27, 2010, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 12:13:15 AM
Well, given there isn't a single Big East or northeastern school in the D1 Top 25 maybe not such a surprise then that the lower level  / DIII schools would rank as highly (or not) either....?

I think it says a lot when the eastern region's, if not all of DIII's, most academically elite conference doesn't even bother with the NCAA football playoffs.  The Liberty League, at least certain schools, have made more of a commitment to scheduling "like institutions" which shows more of a dedication to "fair competition" (i.e., playing institutions that recruit really strong students, etc.) vs. playing the "best teams available" and getting ready for the playoffs (for better or for worse).  Not to mention the largest eastern conference, the NEFC, has lots of teams with part-time coaching staffs.  Compare that to other DIII schools with in excess of 10 coaches.

I'd also add that the cost of attendance, committment to carrying DI (e.g., hockey, lacrosse, crew, sailing, squash, etc) and other programs in addition to football is a factor as well.   Not to mention the very competitive/selective admissions requirements that tend to be higher at eastern schools (with a few exceptions of course, e.g., SCIAC schools like Oxy, some small private lib arts institutions like Kenyon and Carleton, etc.). 

By way of comparison some WIAC schools cost around $10K/year and have a 10K student body vs. $50-60K pricetags and 2K student bodies.  The student body size  certainly creates an advantage for schools like UWW  - I'd compare it to a Cal State school joining the SCIAC - there'd be a huge competitive advantage for the Cal State vs. the Oxy's and Pomona's. 

The proliferation of schools, both upper division and DIII, certainly play into it - e.g., many of the "South" DIII teams are in PA. 

Could drone on and on but will cut it here.  Looking fwd to your ATN as always.


Totally disagree within the LL.  If anything, 'Bart, Union & RPI have been scheduling outside of the 'like schools' mentality in recent years.

'Bart vs. Fisher....Union vs. Ithaca....Union vs. Salisbury would have never happened a few years ago.  I wouldn't say any of RPI's OOC opponents are at all similar to them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Can't speak for Union or RPI, but Fisher is definitely an exception in Hobart's case.  Adding them was necessitated due to the SUS exit. 

Hobart's regular OOC rival Dickinson (and F&M a few years back) is a "like institution" IMO. 

CMU is sort of (really a stretch given the engineering bent), but more importantly they are a very academic / prestigious school that helps Hobart expand into the Pittsburgh, PA market. 

Hobart's AD expressed the same to all the above during our interview with him on ITH about a month ago.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 27, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Can't speak for Union or RPI, but Fisher is definitely an exception in Hobart's case.  Adding them was necessitated due to the SUS exit. 

So it turns out that Bart isn't a glutton for punishment by trying to field a competitive schedule but just a desperate and lonely widow...

Glad you're able to admit that, it takes a strong person to do so...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 27, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Can't speak for Union or RPI, but Fisher is definitely an exception in Hobart's case.  Adding them was necessitated due to the SUS exit. 

So it turns out that Bart isn't a glutton for punishment by trying to field a competitive schedule but just a desperate and lonely widow...

Glad you're able to admit that, it takes a strong person to do so...

Not my words - the Hobart AD's.

I would prefer the Statesmen schedule the best teams in the region they can, but it doesn't seem like the school is 100% dedicated to that, hence the 9 game schedule, etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on October 27, 2010, 01:45:14 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 27, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Can't speak for Union or RPI, but Fisher is definitely an exception in Hobart's case.  Adding them was necessitated due to the SUS exit. 

So it turns out that Bart isn't a glutton for punishment by trying to field a competitive schedule but just a desperate and lonely widow...

Glad you're able to admit that, it takes a strong person to do so...

Not my words - the Hobart AD's.

I would prefer the Statesmen schedule the best teams in the region they can, but it doesn't seem like the school is 100% dedicated to that, hence the 9 game schedule, etc.

That seems like a fair assessment.  Last year Alfred and Hobart had a shared open date and from my understanding Hobart didn't want the extra home game and remained with a 9 game schedule.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 02 Warhawk on October 27, 2010, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 12:13:15 AM
Well, given there isn't a single Big East or northeastern school in the D1 Top 25 maybe not such a surprise then that the lower level  / DIII schools would rank as highly (or not) either....?

I think it says a lot when the eastern region's, if not all of DIII's, most academically elite conference doesn't even bother with the NCAA football playoffs.  The Liberty League, at least certain schools, have made more of a commitment to scheduling "like institutions" which shows more of a dedication to "fair competition" (i.e., playing institutions that recruit really strong students, etc.) vs. playing the "best teams available" and getting ready for the playoffs (for better or for worse).  Not to mention the largest eastern conference, the NEFC, has lots of teams with part-time coaching staffs.  Compare that to other DIII schools with in excess of 10 coaches.

I'd also add that the cost of attendance, committment to carrying DI (e.g., hockey, lacrosse, crew, sailing, squash, etc) and other programs in addition to football is a factor as well.   Not to mention the very competitive/selective admissions requirements that tend to be higher at eastern schools (with a few exceptions of course, e.g., SCIAC schools like Oxy, some small private lib arts institutions like Kenyon and Carleton, etc.).  

By way of comparison some WIAC schools cost around $10K/year and have a 10K student body vs. $50-60K pricetags and 2K student bodies.  The student body size  certainly creates an advantage for schools like UWW  - I'd compare it to a Cal State school joining the SCIAC - there'd be a huge competitive advantage for the Cal State vs. the Oxy's and Pomona's.  

The proliferation of schools, both upper division and DIII, certainly play into it - e.g., many of the "South" DIII teams are in PA.  

Could drone on and on but will cut it here.  Looking fwd to your ATN as always.

I would agree with you that it may be easier for potential students to enroll at WIAC, b/c it is a public school, and it is cheaper than most any private schools. But in no way does the size of the school dictate an advantage for athletic programs. This isn't highschool where the student body tries out for the football team. It's college where student-athletes are recruited to attend that school before they enroll.

If the size of the school mattered in college, then schools like Notre Dame or Duke University would never have a chance of a winning tradition like they do now.

going back to recruiting, I do sympathize with the East in DIII. It must be a recruiting nightmare out there for coaches. I think 75% all of DIII football programs are nestled in the northeastern part of the country (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/NCAA_Division_3_football_map.gif). Between that and higher tuition costs, that's probably the main reason why western teams seem to dominate the standings over the past few decades in DIII football.

good luck to everyone in the playoffs  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on October 27, 2010, 03:08:17 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 11:40:21 AM
mosdef dlip....

Another, if not the biggest, contributing factors are the school's dedication (or lack thereof) to the football program and coaching.

Let's take MUC (now UMU) for as an (obvious) example.  The school is obviously behind the program 110% - how else could it support 100+ player rosters and fund 15 game seasons year in and out? 

Although UMU is expensive in comparison to other OH/midwest schools, the admissions selectivity isn't that high (i.e., 80-5% of applicants get in) and I imagine some fin aid makes it competitive with DII or other schools in its area.

Then there's coaching, and Kehres is clearly one of the best in the biz.  Winning begets winning and titles (especially in the ESPN era) will lure kids from all around (e.g., Pierre Garcon, the UWW QB who transferred from Cal Lu). 

Although not a great correlation given it was 30 years ago and the fact lacrosse is a much smaller pool of kids who play it and schools who have programs, but a big reason for Hobart's DIII lax dominance in the 80's was due to winning some natty's in the late 70's and if you played lacrosse in either NY, NE or LI you could go to Hobart and win a championship vs. going to SU or Cornell and potentially riding the pine. 

Probably the same deal for OH kids not quite big or fast enough to go to OSU or OU, MofO, BGU, etc so why not attend UMU and compete for a title EVERY YEAR?

That said, per my earlier comments, I think it's pretty obvious that most eastern schools are not putting as many resources towards football as they could.  Some of this is Title IX related, other cases it's b/c of D1 or other programs (e.g., squash, sailing) to bring in a "certain profile" (i.e., full payers).

The coaching is certainly strong at many eastern schools, but without the same level of institutional, alumni and support schools from other regions are getting, I doubt you'll see an eastern national champion in football in the next 20 years - especially as more DIII schools add football across the country.
Bottom line is that football programs are expensive and difficult to support.  With dwindling budgets they become more difficult to support.  I'm not convinced though that support alone will fix the problem.  This seems to be a regional problem and there are programs that are supported well that under perform and programs with smaller budgets and support that probably over achieve. 
Personally, I think the problem has to do with the talent pool.  Football in parts of PA and Ohio is religion.  That's just not the case here in NY.  Sure some of your schools (usually your class D programs like Dolgeville or Weedsport or Onondaga) love their football but they are the exception and not the rule.  Some of the best athletes in our local highschools don't play football and some are just apathetic and play nothing.  I have seen many kids who would be great football players concentrate on lacrosse year round.  NY is a hotbed for D1 lacrosse.  How many NY D1 football players are there? So...you want to improve NY (east) football?; ban lacrosse.  Of course we can't do that so there in lies the rub.  Football used to be king in the east.  It just isn't anymore.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2010, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:57:10 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

I've definitely written about NJAC tiebreakers before. I have a hard time keeping each conference's straight though, it's like we re-learn them each year on an as-needed basis. Sounds like we should make an FAQ with all these in it.


I would but that FAQ would be a pain in the rear to keep updated. I wouldn't want to be responsible for keeping up with the changes that would have to be made each year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2010, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 26, 2010, 11:57:10 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 25, 2010, 09:01:06 PM
Interesting how all are annointing MSU as NJAC champ.  Perhaps it is wishful thinking as the only hope to keep MUC out of the east.  Methiinks, however, that Cortland could spoil that party.

What happens with a three-way NJAC tie?  Contrary to JT on the NJAC board, I have heard that there is NO fresh blood clause.  That being said, nobody knows the tie-breakers.

In this scenario, NJAC has three 9-1 teams.  MY guess is MUC comes East and NJAC only gets their champ in.

I've definitely written about NJAC tiebreakers before. I have a hard time keeping each conference's straight though, it's like we re-learn them each year on an as-needed basis. Sounds like we should make an FAQ with all these in it.


I would but that FAQ would be a pain in the rear to keep updated. I wouldn't want to be responsible for keeping up with the changes that would have to be made each year.

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it doesn't seem like it would be a major problem.  Put in the tie-break rules with an 'as of' date (warning the reader to beware if possibly out-dated).  Surely almost every conference has an SID (or poster) who would alert you if the rules are changed?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 27, 2010, 04:48:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 04:42:06 PM

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it doesn't seem like it would be a major problem.  Put in the tie-break rules with an 'as of' date (warning the reader to beware if possibly out-dated).  Surely almost every conference has an SID (or poster) who would alert you if the rules are changed?

Not to be an indictment of SID's/AD's, but as someone who has attempted to compile things like this from dozens of places, trust me, it's harder than it looks to get everyone on board...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 05:00:20 PM
it's 5 o'clock - anybody know where the ncaa regional rankings are.... ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 27, 2010, 05:02:20 PM
On our front page.

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/10/27/first-2010-regional-rankings/

Posted to Twitter at 4:53. Facebook immediately thereafter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on October 27, 2010, 05:03:13 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 05:00:20 PM
it's 5 o'clock - anybody know where the ncaa regional rankings are.... ???
Ask and ye shall receive.....front page! Good timing, PC!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 27, 2010, 04:48:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 04:42:06 PM

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it doesn't seem like it would be a major problem.  Put in the tie-break rules with an 'as of' date (warning the reader to beware if possibly out-dated).  Surely almost every conference has an SID (or poster) who would alert you if the rules are changed?

Not to be an indictment of SID's/AD's, but as someone who has attempted to compile things like this from dozens of places, trust me, it's harder than it looks to get everyone on board...

Granted, but we are talking conference rules.  Surely almost all conferences have tie-break rules listed, so after the initial compilation all you need is someone (SID, AD, poster) to alert you to changes.  And if NO one does, what the heck - no one who cares will ever see the out-dated rule anyway! :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 27, 2010, 05:13:42 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 27, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: TGP on October 27, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Can't speak for Union or RPI, but Fisher is definitely an exception in Hobart's case.  Adding them was necessitated due to the SUS exit. 

So it turns out that Bart isn't a glutton for punishment by trying to field a competitive schedule but just a desperate and lonely widow...

Glad you're able to admit that, it takes a strong person to do so...

Not my words - the Hobart AD's.

I would prefer the Statesmen schedule the best teams in the region they can, but it doesn't seem like the school is 100% dedicated to that, hence the 9 game schedule, etc.

I wasn't being serious about the whole "widow" thing...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 05:27:16 PM
Already noted a couple of typos in the East Region rankings.

DVC is 6-1 as is Alfred.  I guess the committee didn't realize that a) Wesley is in region for DVC and b) Widener's in the MAC (and hence in region for Alfred)....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:34:17 PM
HA! ....MUC is only 3rd in region...they better not ship them east (sense sarcasm in my post before any purple raiders et al jump down my throat)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 27, 2010, 05:35:55 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:34:17 PM
HA! ....MUC is only 3rd in region...they better not ship them east (sense sarcasm in my post before any purple raiders et al jump down my throat)

Ironically getting "zinged" for only being 6-0.  UW-Oshkosh is over 500 miles away from Alliance hence it doesn't count as an in region game for the Purple Raiduhs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on October 27, 2010, 05:47:28 PM
Keep in mind UWW was #4 West in the 1st version last year but finished as #1 overall seed
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 27, 2010, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

I totally agree with both of you, but we just gotta let the next few weeks play out, a lot can happen in 3 weeks...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

The FIRST regional rankings, for sure.

But as USee already reminded you, UWW was #4 in the first rankings last year; UMU will almost certainly finish #1 this year (though with both teams above them being CCIW, the winner of the NCC/Wheaton game just might hold off the Mount! :D).

I'd bet very serious money that 2 of the 4 #1s will be UWW and Mount (unless one of them stumbles).  The question is the identity of the other two, out of Montclair St., Wesley, UMHB, St. Thomas, and the Wheaton/NCC winner.

[My current bet is Wesley and NCC, but there are still 3 weeks to play.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on October 28, 2010, 12:14:15 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

The FIRST regional rankings, for sure.

But as USee already reminded you, UWW was #4 in the first rankings last year; UMU will almost certainly finish #1 this year (though with both teams above them being CCIW, the winner of the NCC/Wheaton game just might hold off the Mount! :D).

I'd bet very serious money that 2 of the 4 #1s will be UWW and Mount (unless one of them stumbles).  The question is the identity of the other two, out of Montclair St., Wesley, UMHB, St. Thomas, and the Wheaton/NCC winner.

[My current bet is Wesley and NCC, but there are still 3 weeks to play.]

All that to say, 'east' region, prepare to say hello to your old friend Mount Union in a few weeks
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 28, 2010, 12:19:57 AM
Quote from: hazzben on October 28, 2010, 12:14:15 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 27, 2010, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

The FIRST regional rankings, for sure.

But as USee already reminded you, UWW was #4 in the first rankings last year; UMU will almost certainly finish #1 this year (though with both teams above them being CCIW, the winner of the NCC/Wheaton game just might hold off the Mount! :D).

I'd bet very serious money that 2 of the 4 #1s will be UWW and Mount (unless one of them stumbles).  The question is the identity of the other two, out of Montclair St., Wesley, UMHB, St. Thomas, and the Wheaton/NCC winner.

[My current bet is Wesley and NCC, but there are still 3 weeks to play.]

All that to say, 'east' region, prepare to say hello to your old friend Mount Union in a few weeks

I guess that is pretty much what I was saying ;), though a 10-0 Montclair St. might keep them away!

We in the North would love to send them your way! :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on October 28, 2010, 12:23:36 AM
Dang it Yipsi, I was trying to have the most recent post in each region...(yes, I'm really that bored)...but you have to continue to be the king of posting frequency  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 28, 2010, 12:59:52 AM
Quote from: hazzben on October 28, 2010, 12:23:36 AM
Dang it Yipsi, I was trying to have the most recent post in each region...(yes, I'm really that bored)...but you have to continue to be the king of posting frequency  :P

I'll try to treat you better if you get my name right - it's Ypsi, not Yipsi! ;D

(My town was named in honor of Greek freedom fighter Demetrius Ypsilanti.  The pronunciation is simple if you just pretend the first Y is an I.  I adopted the name when PC disparagingly called me that (he spent part of his childhood here), then a HOFer said I should adopt the name, all while Ypsi was having their 'Heritage Festival' - at that point, how could I NOT be 'Mr. Ypsi'? ::))

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on October 28, 2010, 01:33:42 AM
If I'm not mistaken, "Ypsilon" or something similar is the root of the letter "Y" in latin, no?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 28, 2010, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."

Honestly dlip thinks this is like a look in the mirror pride type thing. Many coaches want to schedule cupcakes, they know it will only help there chances to get into the NCAA's yet they also have pride and want to build a program based upon excellence. IDHO this must come from gaining respect in the D3 world by playing the best D3 has to offer. Coaches may be pigeonholed when it comes to this. dlip thinks they know but they are to afraid to pull the trigger. Plus, if you start to lose to those teams your ****ed.

Example: This year Union is struggling big time...BUT they can say they have lost to the likes of IC at Butterfield opening week (regardless of how good IC is or is not it's the continued perception of them that counts), and they have lost to Salisbury (another team with a very solid reputation) and they still have to go out to Springfield. To dlip, this is always the more respected route to go and one that will hopefully lead to good recruits and rivalries at the D3 level.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 10:29:53 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."

Honestly dlip thinks this is like a look in the mirror pride type thing. Many coaches want to schedule cupcakes, they know it will only help there chances to get into the NCAA's yet they also have pride and want to build a program based upon excellence. IDHO this must come from gaining respect in the D3 world by playing the best D3 has to offer. Coaches may be pigeonholed when it comes to this. dlip thinks they know but they are to afraid to pull the trigger. Plus, if you start to lose to those teams your ****ed.

Example: This year Union is struggling big time...BUT they can say they have lost to the likes of IC at Butterfield opening week (regardless of how good IC is or is not it's the continued perception of them that counts), and they have lost to Salisbury (another team with a very solid reputation) and they still have to go out to Springfield. To dlip, this is always the more respected route to go and one that will hopefully lead to good recruits and rivalries at the D3 level.

good points dlip...could also make the point of if your a coach and lose a game to a tough opponent o.o.c. yet other teams in your conference play cupcakes and make the playoffs for several years in a row it makes it much easier to recruit and kids are going to look at who is playing in the playoffs or should i go to a place where they are done at the end of the season w/ no playoffs? (albeit schools being close academically/financially/liking coaching staff) it could easily tip the boat to the playoff schools favor....i.e. MUC go there w/ a chance for a national championship or go to school B and get a pat on the back at the end of the season
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 11:11:28 AM
And in reality if you lose 2 games during the regular season, you might not belong in the playoffs anyway.  Your goal at some point should be to win a national championship.  If Ithaca loses to Lycoming, SJF they probably won't have a chance at winning a national championship.  SJF or Alfred would deserve that chance.

DVC may have lost to Wesley, but they are probably going to beat everyone else.  Even if they lost one MAC game, the other MAC team would have to only have one loss in order to win the MAC.  That isn't going to happen, so DVC should have a good shot at going far.

I've always felt these things work themselves out 99% of the time.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 11:11:28 AM
And in reality if you lose 2 games during the regular season, you might not belong in the playoffs anyway.  Your goal at some point should be to win a national championship.  If Ithaca loses to Lycoming, SJF they probably won't have a chance at winning a national championship.  SJF or Alfred would deserve that chance.

DVC may have lost to Wesley, but they are probably going to beat everyone else.  Even if they lost one MAC game, the other MAC team would have to only have one loss in order to win the MAC.  That isn't going to happen, so DVC should have a good shot at going far.

I've always felt these things work themselves out 99% of the time.

I half-agree with the sentiment, but let's face it: Even before the MUC/Whitewater stranglehold on the championships, how many teams were realistic contenders anyway? For some schools, the playoffs may be the goal. I'm sure, once you cut through all the coach-speak, most coaches are realistic regarding national championships. That's not to say a once down program can't rise up like a Fisher or even Whitewater, but with over 200 teams, most programs aren't ever going to compete on that level. Heck, half the teams that make the playoffs aren't considered anything more than fodder for the Mount Union, Wesley, Whitewater's, Hardin-Baylor's of the world. So for a lot of programs, a playoff berth is that big of a deal.

Sure, us Fisher and IC fans can/could talk about the national contender thing, and Alfred could be on its way. Springfield's had a couple of years where they were really legit. But we're the minority. For a lot of schools, a title isn't a realistic goal, so getting unjustly--in their eyes--left out of the playoffs is a big deal.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 12:14:55 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 11:11:28 AM
And in reality if you lose 2 games during the regular season, you might not belong in the playoffs anyway.  Your goal at some point should be to win a national championship.  If Ithaca loses to Lycoming, SJF they probably won't have a chance at winning a national championship.  SJF or Alfred would deserve that chance.

DVC may have lost to Wesley, but they are probably going to beat everyone else.  Even if they lost one MAC game, the other MAC team would have to only have one loss in order to win the MAC.  That isn't going to happen, so DVC should have a good shot at going far.

I've always felt these things work themselves out 99% of the time.

I half-agree with the sentiment, but let's face it: Even before the MUC/Whitewater stranglehold on the championships, how many teams were realistic contenders anyway? For some schools, the playoffs may be the goal. I'm sure, once you cut through all the coach-speak, most coaches are realistic regarding national championships. That's not to say a once down program can't rise up like a Fisher or even Whitewater, but with over 200 teams, most programs aren't ever going to compete on that level. Heck, half the teams that make the playoffs aren't considered anything more than fodder for the Mount Union, Wesley, Whitewater's, Hardin-Baylor's of the world. So for a lot of programs, a playoff berth is that big of a deal.

Sure, us Fisher and IC fans can/could talk about the national contender thing, and Alfred could be on its way. Springfield's had a couple of years where they were really legit. But we're the minority. For a lot of schools, a title isn't a realistic goal, so getting unjustly--in their eyes--left out of the playoffs is a big deal.

Right.  That's why I said at some point your goal should be to win a national championship or I should have said compete for one.  SUNY Maritime and Mt. Ida should have the goal of making the playoffs and pulling of a win so they can compete in the future. 

My main point is that the regular season should mean something and that you can figure out a lot of things along the way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already

But even if we eliminate those inconsistencies, we're still going to get teams like St. Lawrence in the tournament. Is that any different? What team in the E8 doesn't deserve it over them? As long as there are AQ's, you'll never get the "best" 32 teams in the tournament. There's probably no easy way to look this up, but Pat might know how many times we've seen a 3 or more loss AQ team make the playoffs over the past 10 years or so.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the 32 teams as close to the best as we can. It just means you shouldn't hold your breath looking for that.

It's impossible to come up with a fail-proof way of evaluating 200+ teams and identifying the 32 best. Any system will have flaws in it.

It may not get the best 32 in, however, I don't think the system we have doesn't identify the "true" national champion. The second is possible without the first. As Podunk said, exactly who's being left out who's going to beat Whitewater or MUC anyway? You'd be hard pressed to argue that any team being left out was going to affect the national title race.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Hambone48 on October 28, 2010, 12:53:07 PM
The NCAA hoops tournament has plenty of AQs that barely have .500 records...IMO it is tough to criticize the AQ format in dIII football...a one loss Maine Maritime team, for example, won't be keeping anyone out of the tournament who might actually win the National Championship.  But playing in the tournament, even if it is for just the first round, gives that program a big lift (especially when compared to the NESCAC schools up in Maine who will never play in the tournament).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: Hambone48 on October 28, 2010, 12:53:07 PM
The NCAA hoops tournament has plenty of AQs that barely have .500 records...IMO it is tough to criticize the AQ format in dIII football...a one loss Maine Maritime team, for example, won't be keeping anyone out of the tournament who might actually win the National Championship.  But playing in the tournament, even if it is for just the first round, gives that program a big lift (especially when compared to the NESCAC schools up in Maine who will never play in the tournament).
yup... no one is really questioning the AQ of the process...its the at large bids where people have big questions/problems that is where the main point of most on here focus has been.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 28, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already

But even if we eliminate those inconsistencies, we're still going to get teams like St. Lawrence in the tournament. Is that any different? What team in the E8 doesn't deserve it over them? As long as there are AQ's, you'll never get the "best" 32 teams in the tournament. There's probably no easy way to look this up, but Pat might know how many times we've seen a 3 or more loss AQ team make the playoffs over the past 10 years or so.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the 32 teams as close to the best as we can. It just means you shouldn't hold your breath looking for that.

It's impossible to come up with a fail-proof way of evaluating 200+ teams and identifying the 32 best. Any system will have flaws in it.

It may not get the best 32 in, however, I don't think the system we have doesn't identify the "true" national champion. The second is possible without the first. As Podunk said, exactly who's being left out who's going to beat Whitewater or MUC anyway? You'd be hard pressed to argue that any team being left out was going to affect the national title race.

Ya your right no one deserves to be in the tourney except E8 teams ??? Forget the whole IQ because it's holding the E8 back. We should put the entire E8 into the tourney over every team in every conference that the E8 is rated higher than. Please, IC isn't going anywhere anyway bobmbers nor is any E8 team with the exception of SJF and maybe Alfred, neither of whom has a shot at the title. That was a dick post and a horse**** shot at SLU and the LL.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already

But even if we eliminate those inconsistencies, we're still going to get teams like St. Lawrence in the tournament. Is that any different? What team in the E8 doesn't deserve it over them? As long as there are AQ's, you'll never get the "best" 32 teams in the tournament. There's probably no easy way to look this up, but Pat might know how many times we've seen a 3 or more loss AQ team make the playoffs over the past 10 years or so.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the 32 teams as close to the best as we can. It just means you shouldn't hold your breath looking for that.

It's impossible to come up with a fail-proof way of evaluating 200+ teams and identifying the 32 best. Any system will have flaws in it.

It may not get the best 32 in, however, I don't think the system we have doesn't identify the "true" national champion. The second is possible without the first. As Podunk said, exactly who's being left out who's going to beat Whitewater or MUC anyway? You'd be hard pressed to argue that any team being left out was going to affect the national title race.

Ya your right no one deserves to be in the tourney except E8 teams ??? Forget the whole IQ because it's holding the E8 back. We should put the entire E8 into the tourney over every team in every conference that the E8 is rated higher than. Please, IC isn't going anywhere anyway bobmbers nor is any E8 team with the exception of SJF and maybe Alfred, neither of whom has a shot at the title. That was a dick post and a horse**** shot at SLU and the LL.

I agree with Dlip.  Only E8 teams should be allowed in the eastern bracket.

Seriously Dlip I think you are missing the point.  If there were no AQ, St. Lawrence probably would not make the tourney this year, as they lost to 3 E8 teams, including the E8's 4th or 5th best team.

You do have to face it though, the E8 is a better conference this year.  Although there isn't a huge difference.  SJF and Aflred is probably a notch ahead of everyone, and then everyone else from the E8 and LL is probably the same.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 28, 2010, 01:45:02 PM
...and Hobart likely WOULD make it.  So watch what you wish for E8ers.

OK, now for complete seriousness... If you really allowed the elimination of the at-large system, I'd have a feeling the East as a whole would get in less than six teams under current scenarios.  The Committee doesn't want to admit that the East beats up on itself greatly every season and that the best teams actually DO play each other in large part in this Region.  So, I'd rather have the Region represented adequately than have the Committee's sentiment on the "best teams" dictate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on October 28, 2010, 01:46:35 PM
What Frank- A Fisher rematch with Hobart?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 28, 2010, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already

But even if we eliminate those inconsistencies, we're still going to get teams like St. Lawrence in the tournament. Is that any different? What team in the E8 doesn't deserve it over them? As long as there are AQ's, you'll never get the "best" 32 teams in the tournament. There's probably no easy way to look this up, but Pat might know how many times we've seen a 3 or more loss AQ team make the playoffs over the past 10 years or so.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the 32 teams as close to the best as we can. It just means you shouldn't hold your breath looking for that.

It's impossible to come up with a fail-proof way of evaluating 200+ teams and identifying the 32 best. Any system will have flaws in it.

It may not get the best 32 in, however, I don't think the system we have doesn't identify the "true" national champion. The second is possible without the first. As Podunk said, exactly who's being left out who's going to beat Whitewater or MUC anyway? You'd be hard pressed to argue that any team being left out was going to affect the national title race.

Ya your right no one deserves to be in the tourney except E8 teams ??? Forget the whole IQ because it's holding the E8 back. We should put the entire E8 into the tourney over every team in every conference that the E8 is rated higher than. Please, IC isn't going anywhere anyway bobmbers nor is any E8 team with the exception of SJF and maybe Alfred, neither of whom has a shot at the title. That was a dick post and a horse**** shot at SLU and the LL.

I agree with Dlip.  Only E8 teams should be allowed in the eastern bracket.

Seriously Dlip I think you are missing the point.  If there were no AQ, St. Lawrence probably would not make the tourney this year, as they lost to 3 E8 teams, including the E8's 4th or 5th best team.

Obviously Jonny, but how many teams could we say that about? We could find teams like that every single year, in every single tourney, across the entire NCAA spectrum. Isn't that part of what helps programs grow and have a realistic goals in the beginning of each year? dlip could give examples of this relative to the E8 as well. ****, the highest ranked east region team is Del Val from the MAC. So let's just not include any teams ranked lower than Del Val from the east? Why even give any team the opportuntiy to upset a higher seed?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 28, 2010, 01:53:04 PM
QuoteYou do have to face it though, the E8 is a better conference this year.  Although there isn't a huge difference.  SJF and Aflred is probably a notch ahead of everyone, and then everyone else from the E8 and LL is probably the same.

Yes JP dlip concurs with this through and thorugh. Sometimes dlip gets a tad sensitive thats all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 01:54:43 PM
Quote from: Hambone48 on October 28, 2010, 12:53:07 PM
The NCAA hoops tournament has plenty of AQs that barely have .500 records...IMO it is tough to criticize the AQ format in dIII football...a one loss Maine Maritime team, for example, won't be keeping anyone out of the tournament who might actually win the National Championship.  But playing in the tournament, even if it is for just the first round, gives that program a big lift (especially when compared to the NESCAC schools up in Maine who will never play in the tournament).

But that depends on what you believe the goal the playoffs should be. If you think it's to identify the teams who could realistically win the national title, this system works fine. But some believe it's about getting the best 32 teams in. And if that's what you believe it should be, this system (and probably any system with an AQ) is going to frustrate you.

And sure, it's easy for us to say an 8-2 team that played a tough schedule isn't a contender. We've got Mount Union and Whitewater and they render a lot of those discussions moot. But what happens if in 10 or 15 years, we no longer have two or three ultra-dominant teams? Will that 8-2 team not be a contender then? Who knows? But it's nice to think about these things ahead of time. One of Ithaca's three championships was with a two-loss team ('79) and in 1994, they were one play away from the Stagg Bowl with a two-loss team. Now, we're not going to see that. But who's to say we wont in the future? Do you think anyone in the 80's saw Mount and Whitewater dominating?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on October 28, 2010, 01:55:38 PM
Prior to the expansion of the tournament, the "best" 16 teams were selected.  It's hard to argue that the best 16 teams don't make the tournament now.  Outside of that group, how many in the 17th to 32nd best teams are true title contenders?  Yes, the tournament would feature better football throughout if the best 32 teams were selected, but I like that every team has a path to entry.  And I think there is some game theory involved in recruiting players who can best perform against your conference opponents.  Not to the same degree as within NFL divisions, but still a potential consideration in recruitment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on October 28, 2010, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 11:11:28 AM
And in reality if you lose 2 games during the regular season, you might not belong in the playoffs anyway.  Your goal at some point should be to win a national championship.  If Ithaca loses to Lycoming, SJF they probably won't have a chance at winning a national championship.  SJF or Alfred would deserve that chance.

DVC may have lost to Wesley, but they are probably going to beat everyone else.  Even if they lost one MAC game, the other MAC team would have to only have one loss in order to win the MAC.  That isn't going to happen, so DVC should have a good shot at going far.

I've always felt these things work themselves out 99% of the time.

I half-agree with the sentiment, but let's face it: Even before the MUC/Whitewater stranglehold on the championships, how many teams were realistic contenders anyway? For some schools, the playoffs may be the goal. I'm sure, once you cut through all the coach-speak, most coaches are realistic regarding national championships. That's not to say a once down program can't rise up like a Fisher or even Whitewater, but with over 200 teams, most programs aren't ever going to compete on that level. Heck, half the teams that make the playoffs aren't considered anything more than fodder for the Mount Union, Wesley, Whitewater's, Hardin-Baylor's of the world. So for a lot of programs, a playoff berth is that big of a deal.

Sure, us Fisher and IC fans can/could talk about the national contender thing, and Alfred could be on its way. Springfield's had a couple of years where they were really legit. But we're the minority. For a lot of schools, a title isn't a realistic goal, so getting unjustly--in their eyes--left out of the playoffs is a big deal.

great point....but clearly not one that the NCAA will (or can perhaps) address
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 28, 2010, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:53:04 PM
QuoteYou do have to face it though, the E8 is a better conference this year.  Although there isn't a huge difference.  SJF and Aflred is probably a notch ahead of everyone, and then everyone else from the E8 and LL is probably the same.

Yes JP dlip concurs with this through and thorugh. Sometimes dlip gets a tad sensitive thats all.

Posting a selfish thought... It was certainly easier when there were only 16 teams, and Rowan got in every year.  8-)  Note the KC Keeler emotecon
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 01:56:56 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 01:34:14 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already

But even if we eliminate those inconsistencies, we're still going to get teams like St. Lawrence in the tournament. Is that any different? What team in the E8 doesn't deserve it over them? As long as there are AQ's, you'll never get the "best" 32 teams in the tournament. There's probably no easy way to look this up, but Pat might know how many times we've seen a 3 or more loss AQ team make the playoffs over the past 10 years or so.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the 32 teams as close to the best as we can. It just means you shouldn't hold your breath looking for that.

It's impossible to come up with a fail-proof way of evaluating 200+ teams and identifying the 32 best. Any system will have flaws in it.

It may not get the best 32 in, however, I don't think the system we have doesn't identify the "true" national champion. The second is possible without the first. As Podunk said, exactly who's being left out who's going to beat Whitewater or MUC anyway? You'd be hard pressed to argue that any team being left out was going to affect the national title race.

Ya your right no one deserves to be in the tourney except E8 teams ??? Forget the whole IQ because it's holding the E8 back. We should put the entire E8 into the tourney over every team in every conference that the E8 is rated higher than. Please, IC isn't going anywhere anyway bobmbers nor is any E8 team with the exception of SJF and maybe Alfred, neither of whom has a shot at the title. That was a dick post and a horse**** shot at SLU and the LL.

I agree with Dlip.  Only E8 teams should be allowed in the eastern bracket.

Seriously Dlip I think you are missing the point.  If there were no AQ, St. Lawrence probably would not make the tourney this year, as they lost to 3 E8 teams, including the E8's 4th or 5th best team.

Obviously Jonny, but how many teams could we say that about? We could find teams like that every single year, in every single tourney, across the entire NCAA spectrum. Isn't that part of what helps programs grow and have a realistic goals in the beginning of each year? dlip could give examples of this relative to the E8 as well. ****, the highest ranked east region team is Del Val from the MAC. So let's just not include any teams ranked lower than Del Val from the east? Why even give any team the opportuntiy to upset a higher seed?

I'm only making the point that if you picked the best 8 teams from the east this year to make the playoffs, St. Lawrence would not be one those teams.  I'm not saying that is or isn't the best system.

And I think it is very rare that the LL leader and probable champ is 4-4 after 8 games.  It really doesn't happen every year in the LL or E8 anyway.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 02:05:28 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:53:04 PM
QuoteYou do have to face it though, the E8 is a better conference this year.  Although there isn't a huge difference.  SJF and Aflred is probably a notch ahead of everyone, and then everyone else from the E8 and LL is probably the same.

Yes JP dlip concurs with this through and thorugh. Sometimes dlip gets a tad sensitive thats all.

Dlip, let me apologize. That was my attempt to point out, that every so often, you get an AQ that is not as strong as a team that misses out on a Pool C bid. I simply used St. Lawrence for the fact that it's, in my view, a pertinent example. Yes, some of that is because they have lost to E8 teams that are going to miss the playoffs, although I didn't intend to make it sound like the LL is an inferior conference as a whole. It's mainly just because I see the "4" in the loss column. I never meant to infer that they're a bad program. There are other examples of 3- and 4-loss teams that have made the playoffs, I just couldn't remember any (Christopher Newport? Randolph-Macon?). Heck, you could concoct a scenario where the E8 could have gotten a 4-6 team in the playoffs at the start of the year, and if a 4-6 IC got a Pool A while an 8-2 Union who beat them got left out of Pool C, that would be stupid too. I should have used that hypothetical example instead of the Saints specific situation. Apologies

Obviously, I have a great deal of respect for Raymond and that program--I even spoke to him after the IC game
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 02:07:15 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 28, 2010, 01:45:02 PM
...and Hobart likely WOULD make it.  So watch what you wish for E8ers.

OK, now for complete seriousness... If you really allowed the elimination of the at-large system, I'd have a feeling the East as a whole would get in less than six teams under current scenarios.  The Committee doesn't want to admit that the East beats up on itself greatly every season and that the best teams actually DO play each other in large part in this Region.  So, I'd rather have the Region represented adequately than have the Committee's sentiment on the "best teams" dictate.

I'm not so sure Hobart would make it.  This would be the standings if you combined the LL and E8 with conference records reflecting the crossover games (Cortland not included)

SJF 5-1, 7-1
Alf 4-1, 6-1
ITH 4-1, 5-2
St. Lawrence 4-3, 4-4
SC 2-2, 5-2
Utica 2-2, 5-2
Hobart 2-2, 4-2,
MM 2-2, 3-5
Union 2-3, 2-4
RPI 2-3, 3-3
WPI 1-3, 3-4
Roch 1-4, 1-5
Wick 0-3, 2-4

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on October 28, 2010, 02:09:37 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."


One way of looking at it....but it won't happen.  Many alumns clammor for great regional matchups (ie., Union vs. Ithaca).  In the past, Union wouldn't schedule this game supposedly because Ithaca was not a like institution (I HATE that excuse).  Many ex-Union players wrote letters and made their feeling felt that an Ithaca game was not only good for both institutions, but Upstate football in general.  The administration listened and the game was added when both schools were finished with their current OOC commitments.

Heck, you can schedule the best OOC schedule in the country and lose every game...win your conference and you're in....scheduling solid OOC teams will make your team better....screw the Regional Ranking and take care of things you can control.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 02:15:12 PM
Quote from: Union89 on October 28, 2010, 02:09:37 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."


One way of looking at it....but it won't happen.  Many alumns clammor for great regional matchups (ie., Union vs. Ithaca).  In the past, Union wouldn't schedule this game supposedly because Ithaca was not a like institution (I HATE that excuse).  Many ex-Union players wrote letters and made their feeling felt that an Ithaca game was not only good for both institutions, but Upstate football in general.  The administration listened and the game was added when both schools were finished with their current OOC commitments.

Heck, you can schedule the best OOC schedule in the country and lose every game...win your conference and you're in....scheduling solid OOC teams will make your team better....screw the Regional Ranking and take care of things you can control.

U89 any word if the series is still going to go on?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on October 28, 2010, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: JT on October 28, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
I feel like some of the coaches I've spoken to (at least at IC) don't want a cupcake OOC schedule because it indirectly sends the message that the NEED those cupcakes to have a record worthy of the playoffs, implying that they won't make it by their own accord. They don't even want to talk about the best/easiest way to get at-large bids because they don't want to send the message the conference title is not a realistic goal.
exactly...this is what pbr hates about all of this...it gives us the fans a watered down product. It puts the coaches in a very tough spot....agreed they don't want to play a cupcake schedule BUT all it takes is several seasons of going 9-1 and being left outside looking in and that could all change. Teams going 10-0 playing soft schedules will force the outliers to come over to cupcake scheduling or continue to lose out. The worst is we as fans won't see any kind of good matchups during the season for o.o.c scheduling. The ncaa could end all of this by completely changing how they select teams but the ball is in their court....

The NCAA has said the past that their goal was not to select the best teams and put them in the playoffs.  I would imagine that has not changed.

i know!!! that is why its time for the winds of change to blow! its not a true national champion right now.  but people are all around are really starting to question the way the rankings and selections are done now. Its time for the ncaa to listen to everyone and implement changes, otherwise its going to turn into more of a mythical national championship than it is already

But even if we eliminate those inconsistencies, we're still going to get teams like St. Lawrence in the tournament. Is that any different? What team in the E8 doesn't deserve it over them? As long as there are AQ's, you'll never get the "best" 32 teams in the tournament. There's probably no easy way to look this up, but Pat might know how many times we've seen a 3 or more loss AQ team make the playoffs over the past 10 years or so.

That doesn't mean we can't strive to make the 32 teams as close to the best as we can. It just means you shouldn't hold your breath looking for that.

It's impossible to come up with a fail-proof way of evaluating 200+ teams and identifying the 32 best. Any system will have flaws in it.

It may not get the best 32 in, however, I don't think the system we have doesn't identify the "true" national champion. The second is possible without the first. As Podunk said, exactly who's being left out who's going to beat Whitewater or MUC anyway? You'd be hard pressed to argue that any team being left out was going to affect the national title race.


Wow.....very well put +1k.

Shockingly, you E8 guys have been making tons of sense over the past couple days!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 28, 2010, 02:18:11 PM
I think we all have to realize one thing here about the E8 and LL this year, and that is St. Lawrence has been a wildcard.  SLU had close games against all LL and E8 teams this year.  If the ball bounced one way or the other in 2 of those SLU games, we might not even be able to tell which conference is better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on October 28, 2010, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 02:15:12 PM
Quote from: Union89 on October 28, 2010, 02:09:37 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."


One way of looking at it....but it won't happen.  Many alumns clammor for great regional matchups (ie., Union vs. Ithaca).  In the past, Union wouldn't schedule this game supposedly because Ithaca was not a like institution (I HATE that excuse).  Many ex-Union players wrote letters and made their feeling felt that an Ithaca game was not only good for both institutions, but Upstate football in general.  The administration listened and the game was added when both schools were finished with their current OOC commitments.

Heck, you can schedule the best OOC schedule in the country and lose every game...win your conference and you're in....scheduling solid OOC teams will make your team better....screw the Regional Ranking and take care of things you can control.

U89 any word if the series is still going to go on?


I have heard it is getting renewed for 2 more years.....don't hold me to that, but I'm about 80% certain that it has been extended.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 28, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 02:05:28 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:53:04 PM
QuoteYou do have to face it though, the E8 is a better conference this year.  Although there isn't a huge difference.  SJF and Aflred is probably a notch ahead of everyone, and then everyone else from the E8 and LL is probably the same.

Yes JP dlip concurs with this through and thorugh. Sometimes dlip gets a tad sensitive thats all.

Dlip, let me apologize. That was my attempt to point out, that every so often, you get an AQ that is not as strong as a team that misses out on a Pool C bid. I simply used St. Lawrence for the fact that it's, in my view, a pertinent example. Yes, some of that is because they have lost to E8 teams that are going to miss the playoffs, although I didn't intend to make it sound like the LL is an inferior conference as a whole. It's mainly just because I see the "4" in the loss column. I never meant to infer that they're a bad program. There are other examples of 3- and 4-loss teams that have made the playoffs, I just couldn't remember any (Christopher Newport? Randolph-Macon?). Heck, you could concoct a scenario where the E8 could have gotten a 4-6 team in the playoffs at the start of the year, and if a 4-6 IC got a Pool A while an 8-2 Union who beat them got left out of Pool C, that would be stupid too. I should have used that hypothetical example instead of the Saints specific situation. Apologies

Obviously, I have a great deal of respect for Raymond and that program--I even spoke to him after the IC game

Bombers dlip kind of feels like a bit of a dick. No need for apologies here, like dlip said, he knows he can be overly sensitive.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 28, 2010, 02:05:28 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 01:53:04 PM
QuoteYou do have to face it though, the E8 is a better conference this year.  Although there isn't a huge difference.  SJF and Aflred is probably a notch ahead of everyone, and then everyone else from the E8 and LL is probably the same.

Yes JP dlip concurs with this through and thorugh. Sometimes dlip gets a tad sensitive thats all.

Dlip, let me apologize. That was my attempt to point out, that every so often, you get an AQ that is not as strong as a team that misses out on a Pool C bid. I simply used St. Lawrence for the fact that it's, in my view, a pertinent example. Yes, some of that is because they have lost to E8 teams that are going to miss the playoffs, although I didn't intend to make it sound like the LL is an inferior conference as a whole. It's mainly just because I see the "4" in the loss column. I never meant to infer that they're a bad program. There are other examples of 3- and 4-loss teams that have made the playoffs, I just couldn't remember any (Christopher Newport? Randolph-Macon?). Heck, you could concoct a scenario where the E8 could have gotten a 4-6 team in the playoffs at the start of the year, and if a 4-6 IC got a Pool A while an 8-2 Union who beat them got left out of Pool C, that would be stupid too. I should have used that hypothetical example instead of the Saints specific situation. Apologies

Obviously, I have a great deal of respect for Raymond and that program--I even spoke to him after the IC game

Bombers dlip kind of feels like a bit of a dick. No need for apologies here, like dlip said, he knows he can be overly sensitive.

No harm, no foul. +K
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on October 28, 2010, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 28, 2010, 02:07:15 PM
I'm not so sure Hobart would make it.  This would be the standings if you combined the LL and E8 with conference records reflecting the crossover games (Cortland not included)

SJF 5-1, 7-1
Alf 4-1, 6-1
ITH 4-1, 5-2

St. Lawrence 4-3, 4-4
SC 2-2, 5-2
Utica 2-2, 5-2

Hobart 2-2, 4-2,
MM 2-2, 3-5
Union 2-3, 2-4
RPI 2-3, 3-3
WPI 1-3, 3-4
Roch 1-4, 1-5
Wick 0-3, 2-4

Don't feel bad, LLers.... we've still got Wick.


[Getting ready for the karma snipe from Yanks99 and BoSox...]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 03:00:32 PM
Quote from: Union89 on October 28, 2010, 02:09:37 PM
Quote from: PBR... on October 28, 2010, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 28, 2010, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on October 28, 2010, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: PBR... on October 27, 2010, 05:46:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 27, 2010, 05:42:36 PM
I hate to waste post #3,000 on the Regional Rankings, but give me a break -- MUC at #3 tells me how much is wrong with the whole process.  The SoS numbers are a joke now, officially.

thank you...pbr was getting tired of banging what seemed like the lone drum for the last couple of years...agreed the whole process needs a MAJOR revamp...complete watered down product....

dlip just stopped even looking at them  :-[

Even though the Regional Rankings may be flawed, you can count on the Selection Committee ignoring them altogether if they so desire.

Case in point, 2005: Regional rankings had, among others, in order St. John Fisher, then Alfred, with Wilkes behind Alfred. In Week 11 that year, Alfred beat St. John Fisher 13-7 to finish 8-2, same as Wilkes, who beat an (unranked) Kings 36-13. Yet Wilkes was selected over Alfred and the Colonels went on to suffer a 42-3 loss at Rowan.

Rankings mean little or nothing to Pep anymore.




pbr just keeps wandering how long its going to take for all the coaches/a.d.'s to wise up to the "way things are done..." and schedule nothing but cupcakes and walkovers to increase their chances to make the playoffs since nothing but records matter.  Its good to play someone like Wesley this year if your DVC and the coach is confident you can run the table in your league even if you lose to a top team. But if your a coach and not sure why take the chance...play the cupcakes and pump that record up to 10-0 on weak sisters (o.o.c. games) and run the table in your league or still have a chance if you lose 1 game in your league. Soon d3 will be a bunch of teams 10-0/9-1 and having played no one and no one has an idea of who is a contender/pretender....alas here we thought d3 might be different so they had a playoff to determine a national champion...now its a "well we think they are the best team but we're not so sure..."


One way of looking at it....but it won't happen.  Many alumns clammor for great regional matchups (ie., Union vs. Ithaca).  In the past, Union wouldn't schedule this game supposedly because Ithaca was not a like institution (I HATE that excuse).  Many ex-Union players wrote letters and made their feeling felt that an Ithaca game was not only good for both institutions, but Upstate football in general.  The administration listened and the game was added when both schools were finished with their current OOC commitments.

Heck, you can schedule the best OOC schedule in the country and lose every game...win your conference and you're in....scheduling solid OOC teams will make your team better....screw the Regional Ranking and take care of things you can control.

yup but puts a ton of pressure on you winning the regular season. 1 hiccup and your done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 27, 2010, 11:23:17 AM
We have had many discussions here regarding some of the struggles or percieved struggles of the East. dlip tends to see both sides of the coin regarding this discussion. One: Recruting has become a problem (competition, finances, D1, FCS, DII schools, and priority lying on other D1 sports). dlip can tell you one thing if UMU had D1 hockey dlip would bet there would eventually...evenutally be a slide in that programs success. Yet on the flip side dlip also feels that the East must somehow make adjustments and simply, "get better." There are just so many factors involved, to dlip, it is not black and white.

I definitely agree with you there.

Even after writing the piece, there were good solid leftovers that I didn't even get to mention.

And I -- er, K-Mack -- had to separate out/postpone the entire No. 1 seed-in-the-east column until next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
I had a text convo with a friend earlier tonight about the topic of the East.  The following were my messages regarding my honest defense of the East that I haven't seen here to this point.  Feel free to debate:

"Well, I think you need to consider two things before you make a final judgment [that the East is weak] there. First, I named you 11 teams generally in the mix for the top 2 spots in the East [Union, RPI, Hobart, SJF, Ithaca, Alfred, Rowan, Montclair, Cortland, DelVal, Lycoming]. Drop Wesley, MUC and UWW. Now name me 10 teams from the other regions that you can make the same claim for.

Second, the East has the fewest Pool A conferences -- 5. One of them is the NEFC. So those 11 teams I named are dispersed only in 4 conferences. This means that we will see no more than 4 undefeated teams here of quality -- and less since they intermix at a high level. The fact that the other regions have so many 9-0 and 10-0 teams tells you two things: there are simply more Pool A conferences in which they are dispersed and they are not crossing over as much against quality OOC teams in their own region.    If that wasn't true, there would be less X-0 teams. I think we have trouble understanding what the numbers DON'T mean as much as we understand what they DO mean. DVC is X-1. Why? Because they took the top South team to the edge. If DVC scheduled Salve Regina instead, they would be X-0. This isn't isolated here (Cortland/Ithaca, Fisher/Hobart, Union/Ithaca, Rowan/Lycoming, Alfred/RPI, etc.). Someone has to lose those games.

I think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS. 100 players is sufficient for a quality, deep team if you have [high quality athletes] across the board. They're just not understanding the issue of their own region's structure (BTW, throw in Springfield in the mix and remember Springfield/Union is a game, too).

[When challenged on the East's strength in the nation] How can SoS numbers look good for East teams if even playing the "quality" teams here involves computing more losses in the equation? We're looking at incomplete numbers right now. The East is at a disadvantage in SoS when the season ends because the intermixing forces more L's in every team's equation. And SoS is the main determining factor for any 1-loss teams surviving the regular season without Pool A bids.

[When it was stated that ADs are taking responsibility for the East's weakness of late] They're trying to take responsibility for things they don't even understand. Look at the NJAC's tiebreaker. OOWP isn't meant for a standalone stat. Yet, that's their 3-way tiebreak?! ADs endorsed that?! They don't understand.

[Still being challenged on depth] Fine, then shift a conference to the East that's in the North or South.  Let's make the playing field level. I bet a lot would change and scheduling would become very odd suddenly compared to what happens now. The East is NOT at level footing.

Name me 11 teams, aside from UWW that, every year, are in the discussion for the top 2 seeds in that bracket (and North and South).  How many of your top teams in other regions intermix in reg season?

[When challenged on why depth means ignoring MUC, WES, and UWW for a moment] No, because DEPTH means number of teams of quality. I'm focusing on depth.

The only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

It's a more salient debate than I think some people understand when u look at the geography, teams and numbers involved together."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 29, 2010, 07:19:56 AM
Great points Frank!

+K
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 29, 2010, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
I had a text convo with a friend earlier tonight about the topic of the East.  The following were my messages regarding my honest defense of the East that I haven't seen here to this point.  Feel free to debate:

"Well, I think you need to consider two things before you make a final judgment [that the East is weak] there. First, I named you 11 teams generally in the mix for the top 2 spots in the East [Union, RPI, Hobart, SJF, Ithaca, Alfred, Rowan, Montclair, Cortland, DelVal, Lycoming]. Drop Wesley, MUC and UWW. Now name me 10 teams from the other regions that you can make the same claim for.

Second, the East has the fewest Pool A conferences -- 5. One of them is the NEFC. So those 11 teams I named are dispersed only in 4 conferences. This means that we will see no more than 4 undefeated teams here of quality -- and less since they intermix at a high level. The fact that the other regions have so many 9-0 and 10-0 teams tells you two things: there are simply more Pool A conferences in which they are dispersed and they are not crossing over as much against quality OOC teams in their own region.    If that wasn't true, there would be less X-0 teams. I think we have trouble understanding what the numbers DON'T mean as much as we understand what they DO mean. DVC is X-1. Why? Because they took the top South team to the edge. If DVC scheduled Salve Regina instead, they would be X-0. This isn't isolated here (Cortland/Ithaca, Fisher/Hobart, Union/Ithaca, Rowan/Lycoming, Alfred/RPI, etc.). Someone has to lose those games.

I think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS. 100 players is sufficient for a quality, deep team if you have [high quality athletes] across the board. They're just not understanding the issue of their own region's structure (BTW, throw in Springfield in the mix and remember Springfield/Union is a game, too).

[When challenged on the East's strength in the nation] How can SoS numbers look good for East teams if even playing the "quality" teams here involves computing more losses in the equation? We're looking at incomplete numbers right now. The East is at a disadvantage in SoS when the season ends because the intermixing forces more L's in every team's equation. And SoS is the main determining factor for any 1-loss teams surviving the regular season without Pool A bids.

[When it was stated that ADs are taking responsibility for the East's weakness of late] They're trying to take responsibility for things they don't even understand. Look at the NJAC's tiebreaker. OOWP isn't meant for a standalone stat. Yet, that's their 3-way tiebreak?! ADs endorsed that?! They don't understand.

[Still being challenged on depth] Fine, then shift a conference to the East that's in the North or South.  Let's make the playing field level. I bet a lot would change and scheduling would become very odd suddenly compared to what happens now. The East is NOT at level footing.

Name me 11 teams, aside from UWW that, every year, are in the discussion for the top 2 seeds in that bracket (and North and South).  How many of your top teams in other regions intermix in reg season?

[When challenged on why depth means ignoring MUC, WES, and UWW for a moment] No, because DEPTH means number of teams of quality. I'm focusing on depth.

The only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

It's a more salient debate than I think some people understand when u look at the geography, teams and numbers involved together."

excellent points frank! fight the good fight for us easterners!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on October 29, 2010, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2010, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: dlip on October 27, 2010, 11:23:17 AM
We have had many discussions here regarding some of the struggles or percieved struggles of the East. dlip tends to see both sides of the coin regarding this discussion. One: Recruting has become a problem (competition, finances, D1, FCS, DII schools, and priority lying on other D1 sports). dlip can tell you one thing if UMU had D1 hockey dlip would bet there would eventually...evenutally be a slide in that programs success. Yet on the flip side dlip also feels that the East must somehow make adjustments and simply, "get better." There are just so many factors involved, to dlip, it is not black and white.

I definitely agree with you there.

Even after writing the piece, there were good solid leftovers that I didn't even get to mention.

And I -- er, K-Mack -- had to separate out/postpone the entire No. 1 seed-in-the-east column until next week.

+K to K-Mack for the ATN.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on October 29, 2010, 11:30:12 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
I think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS.

Amen counselor....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 29, 2010, 11:31:56 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
I had a text convo with a friend earlier tonight about the topic of the East.  The following were my messages regarding my honest defense of the East that I haven't seen here to this point.  Feel free to debate:

"Well, I think you need to consider two things before you make a final judgment [that the East is weak] there. First, I named you 11 teams generally in the mix for the top 2 spots in the East [Union, RPI, Hobart, SJF, Ithaca, Alfred, Rowan, Montclair, Cortland, DelVal, Lycoming]. Drop Wesley, MUC and UWW. Now name me 10 teams from the other regions that you can make the same claim for.

Second, the East has the fewest Pool A conferences -- 5. One of them is the NEFC. So those 11 teams I named are dispersed only in 4 conferences. This means that we will see no more than 4 undefeated teams here of quality -- and less since they intermix at a high level. The fact that the other regions have so many 9-0 and 10-0 teams tells you two things: there are simply more Pool A conferences in which they are dispersed and they are not crossing over as much against quality OOC teams in their own region.    If that wasn't true, there would be less X-0 teams. I think we have trouble understanding what the numbers DON'T mean as much as we understand what they DO mean. DVC is X-1. Why? Because they took the top South team to the edge. If DVC scheduled Salve Regina instead, they would be X-0. This isn't isolated here (Cortland/Ithaca, Fisher/Hobart, Union/Ithaca, Rowan/Lycoming, Alfred/RPI, etc.). Someone has to lose those games.

I think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS. 100 players is sufficient for a quality, deep team if you have [high quality athletes] across the board. They're just not understanding the issue of their own region's structure (BTW, throw in Springfield in the mix and remember Springfield/Union is a game, too).

[When challenged on the East's strength in the nation] How can SoS numbers look good for East teams if even playing the "quality" teams here involves computing more losses in the equation? We're looking at incomplete numbers right now. The East is at a disadvantage in SoS when the season ends because the intermixing forces more L's in every team's equation. And SoS is the main determining factor for any 1-loss teams surviving the regular season without Pool A bids.

[When it was stated that ADs are taking responsibility for the East's weakness of late] They're trying to take responsibility for things they don't even understand. Look at the NJAC's tiebreaker. OOWP isn't meant for a standalone stat. Yet, that's their 3-way tiebreak?! ADs endorsed that?! They don't understand.

[Still being challenged on depth] Fine, then shift a conference to the East that's in the North or South.  Let's make the playing field level. I bet a lot would change and scheduling would become very odd suddenly compared to what happens now. The East is NOT at level footing.

Name me 11 teams, aside from UWW that, every year, are in the discussion for the top 2 seeds in that bracket (and North and South).  How many of your top teams in other regions intermix in reg season?

[When challenged on why depth means ignoring MUC, WES, and UWW for a moment] No, because DEPTH means number of teams of quality. I'm focusing on depth.

The only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

It's a more salient debate than I think some people understand when u look at the geography, teams and numbers involved together."

Holy in depth analysis Batman! +K
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 29, 2010, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 29, 2010, 01:10:22 AM
I had a text convo with a friend earlier tonight about the topic of the East.  The following were my messages regarding my honest defense of the East that I haven't seen here to this point.  Feel free to debate:

"Well, I think you need to consider two things before you make a final judgment [that the East is weak] there. First, I named you 11 teams generally in the mix for the top 2 spots in the East [Union, RPI, Hobart, SJF, Ithaca, Alfred, Rowan, Montclair, Cortland, DelVal, Lycoming]. Drop Wesley, MUC and UWW. Now name me 10 teams from the other regions that you can make the same claim for.

Second, the East has the fewest Pool A conferences -- 5. One of them is the NEFC. So those 11 teams I named are dispersed only in 4 conferences. This means that we will see no more than 4 undefeated teams here of quality -- and less since they intermix at a high level. The fact that the other regions have so many 9-0 and 10-0 teams tells you two things: there are simply more Pool A conferences in which they are dispersed and they are not crossing over as much against quality OOC teams in their own region.    If that wasn't true, there would be less X-0 teams. I think we have trouble understanding what the numbers DON'T mean as much as we understand what they DO mean. DVC is X-1. Why? Because they took the top South team to the edge. If DVC scheduled Salve Regina instead, they would be X-0. This isn't isolated here (Cortland/Ithaca, Fisher/Hobart, Union/Ithaca, Rowan/Lycoming, Alfred/RPI, etc.). Someone has to lose those games.

I think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS. 100 players is sufficient for a quality, deep team if you have [high quality athletes] across the board. They're just not understanding the issue of their own region's structure (BTW, throw in Springfield in the mix and remember Springfield/Union is a game, too).

[When challenged on the East's strength in the nation] How can SoS numbers look good for East teams if even playing the "quality" teams here involves computing more losses in the equation? We're looking at incomplete numbers right now. The East is at a disadvantage in SoS when the season ends because the intermixing forces more L's in every team's equation. And SoS is the main determining factor for any 1-loss teams surviving the regular season without Pool A bids.

[When it was stated that ADs are taking responsibility for the East's weakness of late] They're trying to take responsibility for things they don't even understand. Look at the NJAC's tiebreaker. OOWP isn't meant for a standalone stat. Yet, that's their 3-way tiebreak?! ADs endorsed that?! They don't understand.

[Still being challenged on depth] Fine, then shift a conference to the East that's in the North or South.  Let's make the playing field level. I bet a lot would change and scheduling would become very odd suddenly compared to what happens now. The East is NOT at level footing.

Name me 11 teams, aside from UWW that, every year, are in the discussion for the top 2 seeds in that bracket (and North and South).  How many of your top teams in other regions intermix in reg season?

[When challenged on why depth means ignoring MUC, WES, and UWW for a moment] No, because DEPTH means number of teams of quality. I'm focusing on depth.

The only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

It's a more salient debate than I think some people understand when u look at the geography, teams and numbers involved together."

Rossi very solid. You have, in many ways, brought dlip around with these points. dlip cannot remember a single post by another that ever really got dlip thinking and formulating an opinion as much as this post. Well done. There is a reason dlip holds you in high regard.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on October 29, 2010, 09:10:00 PM
Tip of the hat Frank....well done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:49:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

The Fact of the matter is that regardless of whether MTU is in the 1 seed of this region, or a round later, unless the east improves they'll either be stopped in the quarterfinals or at best in the semifinals. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:49:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:49:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:02:47 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:49:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

And besides games vs. MUC, what evidence do you have to make that assessment?  The only cross-regional game that stands out is Wesley/DVC -- and that was a narrow win for a team that's better than a Pool C team at home against one of the top teams in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:09:05 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:02:47 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:49:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

And besides games vs. MUC, what evidence do you have to make that assessment?  The only cross-regional game that stands out is Wesley/DVC -- and that was a narrow win for a team that's better than a Pool C team at home against one of the top teams in the East.

What proof do you have to make the opposite argument? All the committee sees is that there is no eastern team DOMINANT enough to run the table.  How do you justify leaving out an undefeated St. Thomas (Who plays in a tough MIAC) or NOrth Central or Wesley, or UWW or MTU?  Already you are going to have to leave one of them out of a number 1 seed (Due to geography, it would be St. Thomas, probably).  If there are 5 teams outside of the east deserving of a 1 seed, how can they possibly make room for one that wasn't able to run the table?

Most of these Eastern teams have existed in your supposed conditions since before these last 4 years and had no trouble getting one to run the table and get the number 1 seed. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:22:16 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:09:05 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:02:47 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:53:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 30, 2010, 11:49:49 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 30, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: clandfan on October 30, 2010, 10:37:08 PM
OK....Now what?

Go back to my post from Thursday night and get your talking points down as to why this whole "nationalization" of the D3 system through placing Mount Union at the top of the bracket is unfair and inappropriate in the regional system D3 in reality is.

...If you want to whine, complain, and make excuses for why Eastern Region teams can't compete on a national level.

Then refute my points.  They've been sitting there for two days waiting for counterpoints.

My main thought is that just because 11 teams are able to win the top seed in the East, does not imply that those 11 teams are better than most of the 11 top teams in other regions.  It's just the top seeds in those regions are so far and away better then every team in their region.  If you put a Pool C OAC or WIAC team in the "East" Bracket, instead of MTU, I think they probably win the bracket too...

And besides games vs. MUC, what evidence do you have to make that assessment?  The only cross-regional game that stands out is Wesley/DVC -- and that was a narrow win for a team that's better than a Pool C team at home against one of the top teams in the East.

What proof do you have to make the opposite argument? All the committee sees is that there is no eastern team DOMINANT enough to run the table.  How do you justify leaving out an undefeated St. Thomas (Who plays in a tough MIACs) or NOrth Central or Wesley, or UWW or MTU?  Already you are going to have to leave one of them out of a number 1 seed (Due to geography, it would be St. Thomas, probably).  If there are 5 teams outside of the east deserving of a 1 seed, how can they possibly make room for one that wasn't able to run the table?

Most of these Eastern teams have existed in your supposed conditions since before these last 4 years and had no trouble getting one to run the table and get the number 1 seed. 

I laid out my proof two days ago.  If the NCAA wants to break away from a regional setup suddenly at the end of the season, then maybe we should have assessment points beyond bare wins and losses and pretty much bogus SoS numbers (SoS is deceiving under its current form and doesn't take into account quality wins or bad losses).  My proof is actual numbers, showing how the quality teams of the East are stacked more tightly conference-wise and actually schedule each other in both in-conference and OOC games.  Mathematically, pg, it is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to expect the East under current setup and scheduling to have probably more than one undefeated quality team (I'm throwing out SUNY-Maritime here as I think we can all agree that they are not of that quality level yet).  Take a more subjective look at the schedules of some of the undefeated teams in other regions and ask yourself just how strong that schedule is from top to bottom.  I'd say, without hesitation, that the 12 teams I named have some overall quality schedules that would give the teams you're pointing to trouble.

So, okay, let's see the Committee set up the East with a Pool C team from another region -- I'd like to see your prediction play out.  I think you'll be surprised with the results.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:49:53 AM
Frank, regarding the point you made on the E8 update board, it may be harder to go undefeated, but the specific teams I brought up were not tripped up by, in your words "intermixing" of conferences. The Empire 8 and LL haven't had a team run the table in conference since 2005.

As for the NJAC, look, it may be hard to run the table there, but there's no reason why someone can't. Montclair missed a 30 yard FG. Yeah, it was windy, and at D-III kicking is shoddy, but a team that wants a #1 seed has to make that. They had seven first downs all game.  I don't follow the MAC closely, so I'll refrain from offering judgements

And not all "intermixing" is difficult. There's zero good reason for Alfred not to be undefeated right now, except it Alfred and well, this seems to be what they do. Regardless, they lost to two inferior teams.

Sure, it's a little tougher in the East, but when's an East team going to rise above the fray? That's what a true #1 seed does, in my mind. They don't lose 35-13 at home to a backup QB (even to a good one that's a rival), miss short FG's, lose by 31 to a four-loss team, lose to two teams who are a combined 6-8 etc.

It's time for an East team to cut out the nonsense, and stop shooting themselves in the foot. Asking someone to go 10-0 is not a herculean task--especially in the E8, whose AQ's have done a fat load of jack in the playoff the last three seasons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then. 

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.

Let's say DelVal didn't play Wesley, went 10-0 and got the #1 seed in the east.  How does that change anything regarding the 32 teams that actually make the playoffs?  Does someone get left out if DelVal beats Mt. Ida instead of losing to Wesley?  Or are we just worried about Mount Union playing Del Val in round 3 instead of round 4? 

I mean, part of me wants to say that simply, Del Val just isn't as good as Wesley and that is it.  Del Val is still going to make the playoffs, and the only way they wouldn't be able to make the playoffs is if they lost another game (actually this year they could probably lose 1 or 2 more games and still win that league).  Del Val still runs the table in their conference and is clear that they are the #1 team in the east, regardless if they aren't ranked that way in the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 09:02:49 AM
Can't you also make the argument that the North teams should beat MUC, and not get a pass to the semis by having MUC go East?  When was the last time under the current system or under 24 team playoff system has Mount Union gotten beaten in region?  Never.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 09:12:35 AM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 09:02:49 AM
Can't you also make the argument that the North teams should beat MUC, and not get a pass to the semis by having MUC go East?  When was the last time under the current system or under 24 team playoff system has Mount Union gotten beaten in region?  Never.

If MUC was in Iowa instead of Ohio I might agree with you.  But it is in a state that borders the east region.  Thats one of the reasons I don't mind so much.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
jt, you could make that argument if uwww wasnt the team being moved to the north as the #1 seed.

i do agree that if the ncaa is going to move teams around then they should do away with the regional rankings and in region games as criteria for getting in to and being seeded for the playoffs.

everyone wants to go as far as they can in the playoffs so avoiding the big 2 allows that to happen, but if your goal is to win the stagg bowl you will likely have to beat one of them sooner or later.  i will say that as a fan it has been fun the last 6 years watching wesley play into december so i do not begrudge anyone from wanting the same thing for there team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 09:39:58 AM
I agree with a lot of things that Frank pointed out in his post, but I don't think they are set in stone and I'll play devil's advocate for a bit.

Quote"Well, I think you need to consider two things before you make a final judgment [that the East is weak] there. First, I named you 11 teams generally in the mix for the top 2 spots in the East [Union, RPI, Hobart, SJF, Ithaca, Alfred, Rowan, Montclair, Cortland, DelVal, Lycoming]. Drop Wesley, MUC and UWW. Now name me 10 teams from the other regions that you can make the same claim for.
-Just because there might be 11 teams with a shot to win the east, that doesn't the top 2 of those year are going to be top 10 teams, and it doesn't mean those teams are good every year.  Plus all those teams you mention seem to lose to bad teams every year.  I don't see that happening across the country as much year in and year out.  The fact is North Central is undefeated and SJF if not, Montclair and Alfred are both in the top 25 when in reality they might not be top 25 teams.

QuoteSecond, the East has the fewest Pool A conferences -- 5. One of them is the NEFC. So those 11 teams I named are dispersed only in 4 conferences. This means that we will see no more than 4 undefeated teams here of quality -- and less since they intermix at a high level. The fact that the other regions have so many 9-0 and 10-0 teams tells you two things: there are simply more Pool A conferences in which they are dispersed and they are not crossing over as much against quality OOC teams in their own region.    If that wasn't true, there would be less X-0 teams. I think we have trouble understanding what the numbers DON'T mean as much as we understand what they DO mean. DVC is X-1. Why? Because they took the top South team to the edge. If DVC scheduled Salve Regina instead, they would be X-0. This isn't isolated here (Cortland/Ithaca, Fisher/Hobart, Union/Ithaca, Rowan/Lycoming, Alfred/RPI, etc.). Someone has to lose those games
-The above is true, but do you want the east to have more pool A conferences?  Would it be good if the NEFC split and grabbed another one?  All that would do would be to take another pool C spot away from the E8, LL or MAC second place team.  And don't those leagues historically sometimes get another pool C team?  And as I mentioned in another post, if Del Val was 10-0 and not 9-1 what difference would that make in terms of an east team getting in or not? 

QuoteI think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS. 100 players is sufficient for a quality, deep team if you have [high quality athletes] across the board. They're just not understanding the issue of their own region's structure (BTW, throw in Springfield in the mix and remember Springfield/Union is a game, too).
-The actual number of players allowed on the roster isn't going to help you, but the fact that you have more than 100 students wanting to play football helps your odds that you might get a starter that may have been overlooked in high school.  We all know that many great d3 football players may not have been all-league/all conference players in high school.  The more of these players that you can convine to come to your school, the more of a chance you have that some of these players will have an impact on your team as seniors.  When I was a senior in high school, the Hartwick coaching staff were telling me that at Hartwick I would play and probably start as a freshman, and at Ithaca I would probably have to wait until I was a junior or senior.  Now they were right, (I had an injury as a sophmore but wouldn't have started but would have played special teams) but that arguement didn't convince me to go to a worse program (at the time) for playing time right away.  There were other factors there of course as well.

Quote[When challenged on the East's strength in the nation] How can SoS numbers look good for East teams if even playing the "quality" teams here involves computing more losses in the equation? We're looking at incomplete numbers right now. The East is at a disadvantage in SoS when the season ends because the intermixing forces more L's in every team's equation. And SoS is the main determining factor for any 1-loss teams surviving the regular season without Pool A bids.
-I'm a little confused by this one.  Wouldn't every team in the country be even for the most part with this one?

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 10:09:06 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 31, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
jt, you could make that argument if uwww wasnt the team being moved to the north as the #1 seed.

i do agree that if the ncaa is going to move teams around then they should do away with the regional rankings and in region games as criteria for getting in to and being seeded for the playoffs.

everyone wants to go as far as they can in the playoffs so avoiding the big 2 allows that to happen, but if your goal is to win the stagg bowl you will likely have to beat one of them sooner or later.  i will say that as a fan it has been fun the last 6 years watching wesley play into december so i do not begrudge anyone from wanting the same thing for there team.

Then the West gets a pass. I agree that you are eventually going to have to beat either uww or mount, but after reading Frank's analysis, the East is getting screwed:

1) Number of bids they receive relative to other regions.
2) The fact that the East due to number of teams, is more competitive.
3) Who was the "genius" that developed the NJAC tie breaker

What if that one East team has a truly great game in them, but they have to play the best team too early and wear down or get injured.  Frankly, there's no reward for playing a tough schedule in the East.  

I'm not saying never move teams around, just mix it up once in while.  Why does the East get the short end most of the time?  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 31, 2010, 10:14:42 AM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 10:09:06 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 31, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
jt, you could make that argument if uwww wasnt the team being moved to the north as the #1 seed.

i do agree that if the ncaa is going to move teams around then they should do away with the regional rankings and in region games as criteria for getting in to and being seeded for the playoffs.

everyone wants to go as far as they can in the playoffs so avoiding the big 2 allows that to happen, but if your goal is to win the stagg bowl you will likely have to beat one of them sooner or later.  i will say that as a fan it has been fun the last 6 years watching wesley play into december so i do not begrudge anyone from wanting the same thing for there team.

Then the West gets a pass. I agree that you are eventually going to have to beat either uww or mount, but after reading Frank's analysis, the East is getting screwed:

1) Number of bids they receive relative to other regions.
2) The fact that the East due to number of teams, is more competitive.
3) Who was the "genius" that developed the NJAC tie breaker

What if that one East team has a truly great game in them, but they have to play the best team too early and wear down or get injured.  Frankly, there's no reward for playing a tough schedule in the East.  

I'm not saying never move teams around, just mix it up once in while.  Why does the East get the short end most of the time?  

Very true JT.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 10:36:14 AM
Why not do this:

Mount - North
UWW - West

______________

Wesley - South
DVC - East

After all these Staggs... Mount vs. UWW, make them meet in the semi's this year.  Then set up a potential rematch of the year on the other side.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 31, 2010, 10:45:31 AM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 10:09:06 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on October 31, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
jt, you could make that argument if uwww wasnt the team being moved to the north as the #1 seed.

i do agree that if the ncaa is going to move teams around then they should do away with the regional rankings and in region games as criteria for getting in to and being seeded for the playoffs.

everyone wants to go as far as they can in the playoffs so avoiding the big 2 allows that to happen, but if your goal is to win the stagg bowl you will likely have to beat one of them sooner or later.  i will say that as a fan it has been fun the last 6 years watching wesley play into december so i do not begrudge anyone from wanting the same thing for there team.

Then the West gets a pass. I agree that you are eventually going to have to beat either uww or mount, but after reading Frank's analysis, the East is getting screwed:

1) Number of bids they receive relative to other regions.
2) The fact that the East due to number of teams, is more competitive.
3) Who was the "genius" that developed the NJAC tie breaker

What if that one East team has a truly great game in them, but they have to play the best team too early and wear down or get injured.  Frankly, there's no reward for playing a tough schedule in the East.  

I'm not saying never move teams around, just mix it up once in while.  Why does the East get the short end most of the time?  

very well stated points JT...couldn't agree more...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.

As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out and schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then.  

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.

Yes, Frank...Del Valley would...but that's one team. You continue to ignore FIVE years of results from the E8 and LL...you continue to ignore that the NJAC did it to itself this season. It's not just the OOC's that are the problem
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.

As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out and schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.


Ok.  But what risk did Del Val really take?  Isn't that the same risk Ithaca takes by scheduling Union, Lycoming or Cortland?  Or the risk Union takes by playing Springfield or Ithaca?  Ithaca, Union and Del Val know that for all intents and purposes, they have to win their league to make the playoffs.  If Del Val is really worried about getting the number 1 seed in the east, then yea, don't play Wesley and go 10-0 in the MAC.  But what would have happend if Del Val beat Wesley but lost the league to a 9-1 Albright like what happened last year?  What happens is that Del Val probably makes the playoffs because of the win against Wesley (which they almost did anyway).  So the pro of having that extra game would be to actually making the playoffs while the con would be to having one more home game in round 3?  Thats why I think the pros overweigh the cons in that situation.

As for the extra week of practice, yea that helps but that is a very minor issue in the long run in my opinion.  It might help you for the next season, but for the season at hand, teams that are playing in week 13 all have 13 weeks of practice don't they?  And you might even have an advantage against Mt. Union earlier in the playoffs because you aren't as banged up or as tired in round 1 like you might be in round 4.  Mount Union is used to playing 14-15 games, Ithaca, Union and Hobart are not.  It might give east teams an advantage in round 1 againts MUC.  (edit: I would see an advantage of playing in a stagg bowl, but I do not see that much of an advantage playing in a semifinal game)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:14:29 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then.  

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.

Yes, Frank...Del Valley would...but that's one team. You continue to ignore FIVE years of results from the E8 and LL...you continue to ignore that the NJAC did it to itself this season. It's not just the OOC's that are the problem

You continue to ignore that the three teams in question in the NJAC are all possibly going to finish at 9-1.  Those three teams were going to account for three losses, with at least two of those teams absorbing at least one lostt.  That's pure math.  If UWW and MUC played each other in the regular season, someone would have to lose that game -- and it would make one of those teams look weak if we were doing this baseline W/L analysis.

You ignore that Rowan/Lycoming and Cortland/Ithaca were/are games that include losses for quality East teams, as do Hobart/SJF (one of Hobart's two losses right now), Alfred/RPI, SJF/Brockport, SJF/Buffalo State, Union/Ithaca, etc.  I'm not saying all these teams had stellar seasons or potential undefeated seasons -- my point is that if you take a look at the list of out-of-conference games played right now in the East and the teams playing them, you have numerous combinations of teams with strength in this Region that are attacking each other.  Things HAVE changed.  For instance, Union's OOC opponents in 2005 (the 10-0 season for Union) were Muhlenburg, Springfield and Franklin & Marshall.  Two of those teams are not even in the East Region.  Now, Union plays two in-region OOC games (potentially three soon).  It seems like the MAC is the only conference even going out of region for games in the East anymore with any regularity.  This is furthered by the creation of the ECFC taking away some of the softness that existed in OOC schedules  (or in the E8's case, in-conference schedules with Norwich) since ECFC teams now have less interaction with the LL, E8 and NJAC.  Things HAVE changed, Bombers.  I know it's tempting to just look at the wins and losses, but right now the East is in a perfect storm cycle.  If it doesn't change, get used to UWW/MUC for the next decade in the Stagg Bowl (and I'm not kidding about this).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 11:18:44 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:14:29 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 10:53:37 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 31, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:41:31 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 12:37:24 AM
They don't NEED more than 1 quality team to go undefeated.  They need ONE!!  If you want to be considered one of the 4 top seeds YOU SHOULD RUN THE TABLE regardless of BS about conferences being tightly bunched in your region, or some other excuse you want to throw out there.  It is NOT impossible for a team to run the table.  Before this all started 4 years ago, we had an undefeated East team every year, and nothing dramatic has changed from now to then.  

Compare East teams OOC schedules then and now.  I think that's changed a lot.

Again Frank, it's not the OOC's that are causing all the issues...

DelVal would differ.

Yes, Frank...Del Valley would...but that's one team. You continue to ignore FIVE years of results from the E8 and LL...you continue to ignore that the NJAC did it to itself this season. It's not just the OOC's that are the problem

You continue to ignore that the three teams in question in the NJAC are all possibly going to finish at 9-1.  Those three teams were going to account for three losses, with at least two of those teams absorbing at least one lostt.  That's pure math.  If UWW and MUC played each other in the regular season, someone would have to lose that game -- and it would make one of those teams look weak if we were doing this baseline W/L analysis.

You ignore that Rowan/Lycoming and Cortland/Ithaca were/are games that include losses for quality East teams, as do Hobart/SJF (one of Hobart's two losses right now), Alfred/RPI, SJF/Brockport, SJF/Buffalo State, Union/Ithaca, etc.  I'm not saying all these teams had stellar seasons or potential undefeated seasons -- my point is that if you take a look at the list of out-of-conference games played right now in the East and the teams playing them, you have numerous combinations of teams with strength in this Region that are attacking each other.  Things HAVE changed.  For instance, Union's OOC opponents in 2005 (the 10-0 season for Union) were Muhlenburg, Springfield and Franklin & Marshall.  Two of those teams are not even in the East Region.  Now, Union plays two in-region OOC games (potentially three soon).  It seems like the MAC is the only conference even going out of region for games in the East anymore with any regularity.  This is furthered by the creation of the ECFC taking away some of the softness that existed in OOC schedules  (or in the E8's case, in-conference schedules with Norwich) since ECFC teams now have less interaction with the LL, E8 and NJAC.  Things HAVE changed, Bombers.  I know it's tempting to just look at the wins and losses, but right now the East is in a perfect storm cycle.  If it doesn't change, get used to UWW/MUC for the next decade in the Stagg Bowl (and I'm not kidding about this).

Mt. Union playing UWW in the regular season is a little different than SJF playing Hobart or Ithaca playing Union.  Those two teams have established themselves as the clear #1 and #2 teams in the country and I don't think either of them would drop out of the top 3 or 4 if they did play each other.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 11:21:30 AM
I think we can all agree on one thing.  If the NCAA is going to have pool a bids (which means the top 32 teams in the country are not going to make the playoffs and the NCAA is more interested in 'giving teams a chance'), then the NCAA shouldn't have a problem with just letting the East teams playing in the east bracket. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.

As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out and schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.


Ok.  But what risk did Del Val really take?  Isn't that the same risk Ithaca takes by scheduling Union, Lycoming or Cortland?  Or the risk Union takes by playing Springfield or Ithaca?  Ithaca, Union and Del Val know that for all intents and purposes, they have to win their league to make the playoffs.  If Del Val is really worried about getting the number 1 seed in the east, then yea, don't play Wesley and go 10-0 in the MAC.  But what would have happend if Del Val beat Wesley but lost the league to a 9-1 Albright like what happened last year?  What happens is that Del Val probably makes the playoffs because of the win against Wesley (which they almost did anyway).  So the pro of having that extra game would be to actually making the playoffs while the con would be to having one more home game in round 3?  Thats why I think the pros overweigh the cons in that situation.

As for the extra week of practice, yea that helps but that is a very minor issue in the long run in my opinion.  It might help you for the next season, but for the season at hand, teams that are playing in week 13 all have 13 weeks of practice don't they?  And you might even have an advantage against Mt. Union earlier in the playoffs because you aren't as banged up or as tired in round 1 like you might be in round 4.  Mount Union is used to playing 14-15 games, Ithaca, Union and Hobart are not.  It might give east teams an advantage in round 1 againts MUC.  (edit: I would see an advantage of playing in a stagg bowl, but I do not see that much of an advantage playing in a semifinal game)

Right now, the Committee would treat that Wesley win as a pure win.  Not a win vs. Wesley.  It doesn't look like the Committee is doing much "win differentiation" or "loss differentiation."  I'd like to see DelVal/Wesley remain because it can only make DelVal better in the longrun unless they will be penalized by losing a quality game later in the process.  Why should scheduling Wesley early hurt DelVal if Wesley is likely going to be the top South team year to year?  If DVC loses to a MAC team and loses the MAC through that (8-2), DVC is done for the season -- that DelVal/Wesley game is suddenly a death knell when combined with the Albright or Lycoming loss.  Where's the reward for scheduling?  I'd say that DVC has taken a larger risk than Ithaca and Union, etc.  It's more on the keel of the risk SJF took vs. MUC for two years.  That game was not going to benefit SJF -- it required SJF to go undefeated for the rest of the season to enter the playoffs, while everyone else could still burn a game and potentially make it.  Again -- NO INCENTIVE.

Part of the problem here is that you're seeing just one part of my argument.  Keith said he'll be posting my entire argument later in the week -- so I might sit back now and let you guys argue the points that I have included so far.  Incentivization of scheduling is a huge thing -- and that scheduling needs to break regional boundaries to make things a little more interesting (and to spread losses to the other regions instead of containing them within four quality conferences).  More later in the week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.

As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out and schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.


D III is very restricted in terms of practice, off season activity, etc.,.  Any team that makes it to the Stagg Bowl gets almost an extra half season of legal practice that other teams don't get.  By the time your average Mount player makes it to his Senior season and Stagg Bowl, he's had two years of extra practice (total of six years) over most opponents.  Huge.  Especially with Kehres running the show.

I certainly think it helped Rowan in the 90's and early 00's.  And it helps UWW now.  As it stands now, the East doesn't even make it to the fourth week.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 11:33:05 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.

As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out and schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.


Ok.  But what risk did Del Val really take?  Isn't that the same risk Ithaca takes by scheduling Union, Lycoming or Cortland?  Or the risk Union takes by playing Springfield or Ithaca?  Ithaca, Union and Del Val know that for all intents and purposes, they have to win their league to make the playoffs.  If Del Val is really worried about getting the number 1 seed in the east, then yea, don't play Wesley and go 10-0 in the MAC.  But what would have happend if Del Val beat Wesley but lost the league to a 9-1 Albright like what happened last year?  What happens is that Del Val probably makes the playoffs because of the win against Wesley (which they almost did anyway).  So the pro of having that extra game would be to actually making the playoffs while the con would be to having one more home game in round 3?  Thats why I think the pros overweigh the cons in that situation.

As for the extra week of practice, yea that helps but that is a very minor issue in the long run in my opinion.  It might help you for the next season, but for the season at hand, teams that are playing in week 13 all have 13 weeks of practice don't they?  And you might even have an advantage against Mt. Union earlier in the playoffs because you aren't as banged up or as tired in round 1 like you might be in round 4.  Mount Union is used to playing 14-15 games, Ithaca, Union and Hobart are not.  It might give east teams an advantage in round 1 againts MUC.  (edit: I would see an advantage of playing in a stagg bowl, but I do not see that much of an advantage playing in a semifinal game)

Right now, the Committee would treat that Wesley win as a pure win.  Not a win vs. Wesley.  It doesn't look like the Committee is doing much "win differentiation" or "loss differentiation."  I'd like to see DelVal/Wesley remain because it can only make DelVal better in the longrun unless they will be penalized by losing a quality game later in the process.  Why should scheduling Wesley early hurt DelVal if Wesley is likely going to be the top South team year to year?  If DVC loses to a MAC team and loses the MAC through that (8-2), DVC is done for the season -- that DelVal/Wesley game is suddenly a death knell when combined with the Albright or Lycoming loss.  Where's the reward for scheduling?  I'd say that DVC has taken a larger risk than Ithaca and Union, etc.  It's more on the keel of the risk SJF took vs. MUC for two years.  That game was not going to benefit SJF -- it required SJF to go undefeated for the rest of the season to enter the playoffs, while everyone else could still burn a game and potentially make it.  Again -- NO INCENTIVE.

Part of the problem here is that you're seeing just one part of my argument.  Keith said he'll be posting my entire argument later in the week -- so I might sit back now and let you guys argue the points that I have included so far.  Incentivization of scheduling is a huge thing -- and that scheduling needs to break regional boundaries to make things a little more interesting (and to spread losses to the other regions instead of containing them within four quality conferences).  More later in the week.

First off I agree with most of what you are saying.  I'm playing devils advocate a little, but I'm also not really seeing the big picture with this arguement about the "east being weak".  I know its just a discussion, but 90% of the problem is that MUC has better coaches and players than Union or Ithaca does.  All this stuff we are talking about here is important, but in my opinion its just a small part of the easts problem.

Secondly, isn't Wesley/Del Vall a regional game, and doesn't the NCAA have primary and seondary criteria which would basically take a win versus Wesley into consideration?  Name me a team that didn't make the playoffs that deserved to because of their nonleague schedule.  I can think of an Ithaca team which did make it because of their non-league wins.

Again if DelVal loses to a MAC team and Wesley and loses the conference, can you really make the arguement that they deserved to make the playoffs anyway? 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on October 31, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
jt, i totally agree.  after talking to some mount people the last couple of years they would agree with you also.  the extra practice makes a difference, how much is open to debate, but it has to help.  if it turns out to be 2 extra years worth of playing time then that is a lot.  also, making them meet in the semis would certainly make a lot of other people happy.  the games have been good to watch, but it is getting old.  i agree with frank, delval is taking a risk playing wesley.  if they lose that game they can not slip up.  it has been great for wesley also in that it gives them a quality opponent to play early. it will be interesting to see how the rest of the year plays out and then see what happens with the seeding.  after seeing delval play twice this year, i would have no complaint if they got the one seed.  the south is going to be interesting with the undefeateds all thinking they deserve it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
If the losses were to Lycoming and Wesley by 3 on the road, yes I can.  Show me a team with one loss that would have a resume even close to the one DVC would possess at that point.  The Committee has pretty much thrown out the distinction between Primary and Secondary criteria since they view the sample size being considered to be too small to try to draw distinctions.  We heard Dick Kaiser say that as Chair a couple years ago, and it was pretty much echoed by Joy Solomen last year.  So, in-region and out-of-region wins and losses count pretty much equally now.  Look at the pros and cons of playing a powerhouse team in an OOC slot:

Pro -- If you can win, you may help your seeding slightly
Pro -- You've gotta play the best to be the best
Con -- If you lose, you are at risk, even in Pool C at 1 loss
Con -- Even if you make the playoffs with the loss, you'll lose at least one, maybe two home games and be seeded lower
Con -- You place your team at a disadvantage compared to the other teams in the Region that didn't take as much of a risk
Con -- If you're one of the top teams in the Region, you risk allowing MUC to take the top of the bracket if no other team in your Region can go undefeated, potentially taking away the experience you gained in the quality game you lost during the season since you likely don't make it to the Semifinals.

I just don't see the incentives to quality in-season scheduling anymore.  For all the years we used to pick on RPI's scheduling, I'm suddenly not opposed to the old RPI schedule -- although, I'd do it in a 10-game structure, not 9.  Go 10-0 against mediocre competition in the OOC games and get rewarded with a #1 seed and the chance to win three playoff games.  Why not?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 11:47:43 AM
If the DIII playoffs was Texas Hold 'em with $10K buy in.  

Mount - has 10K in chips, always starts with pocket rockets, and always gets to bet last.
West team - has 10K in chips
South team - has 10K in chips
East team - pays 10K for chips but only gets 6K in chips, and always has to bet first.

Mount has earned the pocket rockets with their historical performance over the years.  They have not earned the right to always bet last.  Maybe that is why the East is "weak".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
If the losses were to Lycoming and Wesley by 3 on the road, yes I can.  Show me a team with one loss that would have a resume even close to the one DVC would possess at that point.  The Committee has pretty much thrown out the distinction between Primary and Secondary criteria since they view the sample size being considered to be too small to try to draw distinctions.  We heard Dick Kaiser say that as Chair a couple years ago, and it was pretty much echoed by Joy Solomen last year.  So, in-region and out-of-region wins and losses count pretty much equally now.  Look at the pros and cons of playing a powerhouse team in an OOC slot:

Pro -- If you can win, you may help your seeding slightly
Pro -- You've gotta play the best to be the best
Con -- If you lose, you are at risk, even in Pool C at 1 loss
Con -- Even if you make the playoffs with the loss, you'll lose at least one, maybe two home games and be seeded lower
Con -- You place your team at a disadvantage compared to the other teams in the Region that didn't take as much of a risk
Con -- If you're one of the top teams in the Region, you risk allowing MUC to take the top of the bracket if no other team in your Region can go undefeated, potentially taking away the experience you gained in the quality game you lost during the season since you likely don't make it to the Semifinals.

I just don't see the incentives to quality in-season scheduling anymore.  For all the years we used to pick on RPI's scheduling, I'm suddenly not opposed to the old RPI schedule -- although, I'd do it in a 10-game structure, not 9.  Go 10-0 against mediocre competition in the OOC games and get rewarded with a #1 seed and the chance to win three playoff games.  Why not?

Again, if you lose to Lycoming by 3, you don't deserve to make the playoffs, and you whole body of work usually shows that.  The fact is DelVal did not lost to Lycoming by 3, they pretty much blew out everyone in the MAC, and they almost beat Wesley.  If they did lost to Lycoming by 3, they probably wouldn't have given Wesley a game either.

You also remember that if RPI goes 10-0 with a weak OCC, they probably deserve to make the playoffs and are more likely than not to be a great football team.  Take this year for an example.  They actually have a decent OCC but can win the league games.  The league games are 90% of it.  All this other stuff isn't going to matter and hasn't really mattered as far as I can tell.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 11:57:01 AM
Since 1999:

Mount has been beaten once during the regular season in the OAC and never in the playoffs.  Mount has been beaten East, South, West five times.  Time for Mount's regional opponents to step up or shut up.  No?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 31, 2010, 11:59:27 AM
I just posted this in the E8 board, but this is how I feel...

It's a pointless argument honestly...

It's the East's fault and no one elses...

It's DVC's fault for losing to Wesley...

It's Fisher fault for not beating AU...

It's AU's fault for beating SJF and losing to RPI and UR...

It's Rowan's fault for losing to Montclair...

It's Corltand's fault for losing to Rowan...

It's Montclair's fault for losing to Cortland...

It's the LL's fault for sucking all together...

If ONE (just ONE and not ALL of them or a COMBINATION of them, just ONE) of those teams just would get their act together and win out this wouldn't be an issue...

The last time Mount wasn't in the East was 2006...

That year:

The West had 4 teams at 10-0 (UW-W, St. Norbert, Whitworth, Central)...

The South had 2 teams at 10-0 (Wesley, Carnegie Mellon)...

The North had 2 teams at 10-0 (Mount, Concordia)...

The East had 2 teams at 10-0 (Well 1 in Wilkes and then Curry at 11-0)...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
If the losses were to Lycoming and Wesley by 3 on the road, yes I can.  Show me a team with one loss that would have a resume even close to the one DVC would possess at that point.  The Committee has pretty much thrown out the distinction between Primary and Secondary criteria since they view the sample size being considered to be too small to try to draw distinctions.  We heard Dick Kaiser say that as Chair a couple years ago, and it was pretty much echoed by Joy Solomen last year.  So, in-region and out-of-region wins and losses count pretty much equally now.  Look at the pros and cons of playing a powerhouse team in an OOC slot:

Pro -- If you can win, you may help your seeding slightly
Pro -- You've gotta play the best to be the best
Con -- If you lose, you are at risk, even in Pool C at 1 loss
Con -- Even if you make the playoffs with the loss, you'll lose at least one, maybe two home games and be seeded lower
Con -- You place your team at a disadvantage compared to the other teams in the Region that didn't take as much of a risk
Con -- If you're one of the top teams in the Region, you risk allowing MUC to take the top of the bracket if no other team in your Region can go undefeated, potentially taking away the experience you gained in the quality game you lost during the season since you likely don't make it to the Semifinals.

I just don't see the incentives to quality in-season scheduling anymore.  For all the years we used to pick on RPI's scheduling, I'm suddenly not opposed to the old RPI schedule -- although, I'd do it in a 10-game structure, not 9.  Go 10-0 against mediocre competition in the OOC games and get rewarded with a #1 seed and the chance to win three playoff games.  Why not?

Again, if you lose to Lycoming by 3, you don't deserve to make the playoffs, and you whole body of work usually shows that.  The fact is DelVal did not lost to Lycoming by 3, they pretty much blew out everyone in the MAC, and they almost beat Wesley.  If they did lost to Lycoming by 3, they probably wouldn't have given Wesley a game either.

You also remember that if RPI goes 10-0 with a weak OCC, they probably deserve to make the playoffs and are more likely than not to be a great football team.  Take this year for an example.  They actually have a decent OCC but can win the league games.  The league games are 90% of it.  All this other stuff isn't going to matter and hasn't really mattered as far as I can tell.


FWIW... RPI took their weak regular season to the semi's against St John's in 2003. RPI played better against the National Champs then Mount Union did in the Stagg Bowl that year.  The funny thing is that RPI almost didn't get a bid.  They finished 11-2.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 12:08:19 PM
Upstate, who were the OOC opponents of the other regions' undefeated teams that year?  I'm serious -- I don't have time to look because I'm running to church and prepping for ITH tonight.  However, how many OOCs did they all play, and what was the strength of the OOC opponents at least on a subjective level?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:10:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 31, 2010, 11:59:27 AM
I just posted this in the E8 board, but this is how I feel...

It's a pointless argument honestly...

It's the East's fault and no one elses...

It's DVC's fault for losing to Wesley...

It's Fisher fault for not beating AU...

It's AU's fault for beating SJF and losing to RPI and UR...

It's Rowan's fault for losing to Montclair...

It's Corltand's fault for losing to Rowan...

It's Montclair's fault for losing to Cortland...

It's the LL's fault for sucking all together...

If ONE (just ONE and not ALL of them or a COMBINATION of them, just ONE) of those teams just would get their act together and win out this wouldn't be an issue...

The last time Mount wasn't in the East was 2006...

That year:

The West had 4 teams at 10-0 (UW-W, St. Norbert, Whitworth, Central)...

The South had 2 teams at 10-0 (Wesley, Carnegie Mellon)...

The North had 2 teams at 10-0 (Mount, Concordia)...

The East had 2 teams at 10-0 (Well 1 in Wilkes and then Curry at 11-0)...

Yet the North clearly benefits from this arrangement, since they can't beat Mount in the playoffs, and only once in the regular season since 1994.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
If the losses were to Lycoming and Wesley by 3 on the road, yes I can.  Show me a team with one loss that would have a resume even close to the one DVC would possess at that point.  The Committee has pretty much thrown out the distinction between Primary and Secondary criteria since they view the sample size being considered to be too small to try to draw distinctions.  We heard Dick Kaiser say that as Chair a couple years ago, and it was pretty much echoed by Joy Solomen last year.  So, in-region and out-of-region wins and losses count pretty much equally now.  Look at the pros and cons of playing a powerhouse team in an OOC slot:

Pro -- If you can win, you may help your seeding slightly
Pro -- You've gotta play the best to be the best
Con -- If you lose, you are at risk, even in Pool C at 1 loss
Con -- Even if you make the playoffs with the loss, you'll lose at least one, maybe two home games and be seeded lower
Con -- You place your team at a disadvantage compared to the other teams in the Region that didn't take as much of a risk
Con -- If you're one of the top teams in the Region, you risk allowing MUC to take the top of the bracket if no other team in your Region can go undefeated, potentially taking away the experience you gained in the quality game you lost during the season since you likely don't make it to the Semifinals.

I just don't see the incentives to quality in-season scheduling anymore.  For all the years we used to pick on RPI's scheduling, I'm suddenly not opposed to the old RPI schedule -- although, I'd do it in a 10-game structure, not 9.  Go 10-0 against mediocre competition in the OOC games and get rewarded with a #1 seed and the chance to win three playoff games.  Why not?

Again, if you lose to Lycoming by 3, you don't deserve to make the playoffs, and you whole body of work usually shows that.  The fact is DelVal did not lost to Lycoming by 3, they pretty much blew out everyone in the MAC, and they almost beat Wesley.  If they did lost to Lycoming by 3, they probably wouldn't have given Wesley a game either.

You also remember that if RPI goes 10-0 with a weak OCC, they probably deserve to make the playoffs and are more likely than not to be a great football team.  Take this year for an example.  They actually have a decent OCC but can win the league games.  The league games are 90% of it.  All this other stuff isn't going to matter and hasn't really mattered as far as I can tell.


FWIW... RPI took their weak regular season to the semi's against St John's in 2003. RPI played better against the National Champs then Mount Union did in the Stagg Bowl that year.  The funny thing is that RPI almost didn't get a bid.  They finished 11-2.

With all due respect, they did get a bid, and they lost to SJU 38-10.  But you are right.  Ithaca gave MUC a game in 2007 and they had 2 losses and did better at MUC than any other team that year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 31, 2010, 12:24:27 PM
Undefeated teams based on last weeks Regional Rankings:

North: 6
South: 6
West: 3
East: 2

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:35:49 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
If the losses were to Lycoming and Wesley by 3 on the road, yes I can.  Show me a team with one loss that would have a resume even close to the one DVC would possess at that point.  The Committee has pretty much thrown out the distinction between Primary and Secondary criteria since they view the sample size being considered to be too small to try to draw distinctions.  We heard Dick Kaiser say that as Chair a couple years ago, and it was pretty much echoed by Joy Solomen last year.  So, in-region and out-of-region wins and losses count pretty much equally now.  Look at the pros and cons of playing a powerhouse team in an OOC slot:

Pro -- If you can win, you may help your seeding slightly
Pro -- You've gotta play the best to be the best
Con -- If you lose, you are at risk, even in Pool C at 1 loss
Con -- Even if you make the playoffs with the loss, you'll lose at least one, maybe two home games and be seeded lower
Con -- You place your team at a disadvantage compared to the other teams in the Region that didn't take as much of a risk
Con -- If you're one of the top teams in the Region, you risk allowing MUC to take the top of the bracket if no other team in your Region can go undefeated, potentially taking away the experience you gained in the quality game you lost during the season since you likely don't make it to the Semifinals.

I just don't see the incentives to quality in-season scheduling anymore.  For all the years we used to pick on RPI's scheduling, I'm suddenly not opposed to the old RPI schedule -- although, I'd do it in a 10-game structure, not 9.  Go 10-0 against mediocre competition in the OOC games and get rewarded with a #1 seed and the chance to win three playoff games.  Why not?

Again, if you lose to Lycoming by 3, you don't deserve to make the playoffs, and you whole body of work usually shows that.  The fact is DelVal did not lost to Lycoming by 3, they pretty much blew out everyone in the MAC, and they almost beat Wesley.  If they did lost to Lycoming by 3, they probably wouldn't have given Wesley a game either.

You also remember that if RPI goes 10-0 with a weak OCC, they probably deserve to make the playoffs and are more likely than not to be a great football team.  Take this year for an example.  They actually have a decent OCC but can win the league games.  The league games are 90% of it.  All this other stuff isn't going to matter and hasn't really mattered as far as I can tell.


FWIW... RPI took their weak regular season to the semi's against St John's in 2003. RPI played better against the National Champs then Mount Union did in the Stagg Bowl that year.  The funny thing is that RPI almost didn't get a bid.  They finished 11-2.

With all due respect, they did get a bid, and they lost to SJU 38-10.  But you are right.  Ithaca gave MUC a game in 2007 and they had 2 losses and did better at MUC than any other team that year.

Tied 10-10 at half.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 12:40:28 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:35:49 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 12:05:44 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:47:04 AM
If the losses were to Lycoming and Wesley by 3 on the road, yes I can.  Show me a team with one loss that would have a resume even close to the one DVC would possess at that point.  The Committee has pretty much thrown out the distinction between Primary and Secondary criteria since they view the sample size being considered to be too small to try to draw distinctions.  We heard Dick Kaiser say that as Chair a couple years ago, and it was pretty much echoed by Joy Solomen last year.  So, in-region and out-of-region wins and losses count pretty much equally now.  Look at the pros and cons of playing a powerhouse team in an OOC slot:

Pro -- If you can win, you may help your seeding slightly
Pro -- You've gotta play the best to be the best
Con -- If you lose, you are at risk, even in Pool C at 1 loss
Con -- Even if you make the playoffs with the loss, you'll lose at least one, maybe two home games and be seeded lower
Con -- You place your team at a disadvantage compared to the other teams in the Region that didn't take as much of a risk
Con -- If you're one of the top teams in the Region, you risk allowing MUC to take the top of the bracket if no other team in your Region can go undefeated, potentially taking away the experience you gained in the quality game you lost during the season since you likely don't make it to the Semifinals.

I just don't see the incentives to quality in-season scheduling anymore.  For all the years we used to pick on RPI's scheduling, I'm suddenly not opposed to the old RPI schedule -- although, I'd do it in a 10-game structure, not 9.  Go 10-0 against mediocre competition in the OOC games and get rewarded with a #1 seed and the chance to win three playoff games.  Why not?

Again, if you lose to Lycoming by 3, you don't deserve to make the playoffs, and you whole body of work usually shows that.  The fact is DelVal did not lost to Lycoming by 3, they pretty much blew out everyone in the MAC, and they almost beat Wesley.  If they did lost to Lycoming by 3, they probably wouldn't have given Wesley a game either.

You also remember that if RPI goes 10-0 with a weak OCC, they probably deserve to make the playoffs and are more likely than not to be a great football team.  Take this year for an example.  They actually have a decent OCC but can win the league games.  The league games are 90% of it.  All this other stuff isn't going to matter and hasn't really mattered as far as I can tell.


FWIW... RPI took their weak regular season to the semi's against St John's in 2003. RPI played better against the National Champs then Mount Union did in the Stagg Bowl that year.  The funny thing is that RPI almost didn't get a bid.  They finished 11-2.

With all due respect, they did get a bid, and they lost to SJU 38-10.  But you are right.  Ithaca gave MUC a game in 2007 and they had 2 losses and did better at MUC than any other team that year.

Tied 10-10 at half.

Yea but thats kind of my whole point here.  Are we really worried about halftime scores, round 3 or 4 respect home games from a neighboring state, or extra weeks of practice that would benefit you the next season?  MUC has crushed everyone over the past 10 years.  Yea there have been close games at halftime, close games in general, and 1 or 2 upsets, but in general the best teams from the east make the playoffs and everyone has a fair chance to win a national championship (or at least compete for one).

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on October 31, 2010, 12:43:53 PM
Some tgreat thoughts on here. I have been reading with interest over the last few days and thought I'd chime in from an outsiders perspective.

This series of arguments is a repeat of years of arguments we have had in the North and elsewhere the past few years. As a follower of the CCIW and a Wheaton fan, I can speak with some experience as Wheaton has made the playoffs 6 times in the last 15 years. They have won every playoff game in the North to teams not named Mt Union. They won the north region in 2008 (which is the last time UWW or Mt Union were not in the North) and lost to Mt in the Semi's.

I don't think the East is getting screwed by anybody (except maybe the NESCAC). you have 51 eligble teams (61 with the NESCAC teams) and 4 Pool A bids (which would be 5 if not for the ....). the North has 56 teams, the west 58 teams and the south 60 teams. The NCAA won't get rid of the regional concept because they want to reward teams who don't spend money in scheduling. That said I totally agree with the concept that scheduling tough games is NOT rewarded.

In the CCIW this year the conference went 23-1 in non conference games. 7 of their 8 teams are now in the top SOS based on this despite playing the likes of Olivet, greenville, Luther, Albion, Illinois College, Benedictine, etc. Their non AQ (the loser of this weeks NCC/Wheaton game) is a virtual lock for a Pool C based on the SOS and other criteria despite playing a "weak sauce" non conference schedule. Last year, North Central went 8-2 and didn't get in as Pool C because they lost in week 1 to Ohio Northern. Thanks for scheduling. If they had played Olivet and finished 9-1, they are in the playoffs.

Separately, the idea of the East being "weak" stems from 2002 when John Carroll was the OAC #2 and a pool C and won the East bracket, falling to Mt in the semis. Since that time there hasn't been a competitive East game against Mt Union (except maybe Ithaca in 07). Prior to that, the East was perceived to be strong with Rowan and much earlier the likes of Ithaca, Union, Salisbury, etc making deep post season runs. I don't think the perception is accurate, but that is how it has come about IMO. It will take some cross regional competition to change that, barring a deep post season run and/or a competitive game vs Mt Union.

In the North, we know we either get Mt Union or UWW in our bracket every year. All you can do is win your games and get seeded opposite them in your region. That gives you at least a couple post season games and the experience of playing at Mt Union/UWW to help your program try and close the gap. North Central is working on the formula to compete with the big dogs. Their theory is 1 player from every 10 recruits (raising their roster to 150+ this year) and scheduling tough teams across regions to raise their profile (despite it costing them a pool C last year). We will all know in a month or so how it is working out!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: USee on October 31, 2010, 12:43:53 PM
Some tgreat thoughts on here. I have been reading with interest over the last few days and thought I'd chime in from an outsiders perspective.

This series of arguments is a repeat of years of arguments we have had in the North and elsewhere the past few years. As a follower of the CCIW and a Wheaton fan, I can speak with some experience as Wheaton has made the playoffs 6 times in the last 15 years. They have won every playoff game in the North to teams not named Mt Union. They won the north region in 2008 (which is the last time UWW or Mt Union were not in the North) and lost to Mt in the Semi's.

I don't think the East is getting screwed by anybody (except maybe the NESCAC). you have 51 eligble teams (61 with the NESCAC teams) and 4 Pool A bids (which would be 5 if not for the ....). the North has 56 teams, the west 58 teams and the south 60 teams. The NCAA won't get rid of the regional concept because they want to reward teams who don't spend money in scheduling. That said I totally agree with the concept that scheduling tough games is NOT rewarded.

In the CCIW this year the conference went 23-1 in non conference games. 7 of their 8 teams are now in the top SOS based on this despite playing the likes of Olivet, greenville, Luther, Albion, Illinois College, Benedictine, etc. Their non AQ (the loser of this weeks NCC/Wheaton game) is a virtual lock for a Pool C based on the SOS and other criteria despite playing a "weak sauce" non conference schedule. Last year, North Central went 8-2 and didn't get in as Pool C because they lost in week 1 to Ohio Northern. Thanks for scheduling. If they had played Olivet and finished 9-1, they are in the playoffs.

Separately, the idea of the East being "weak" stems from 2002 when John Carroll was the OAC #2 and a pool C and won the East bracket, falling to Mt in the semis. Since that time there hasn't been a competitive East game against Mt Union (except maybe Ithaca in 07). Prior to that, the East was perceived to be strong with Rowan and much earlier the likes of Ithaca, Union, Salisbury, etc making deep post season runs. I don't think the perception is accurate, but that is how it has come about IMO. It will take some cross regional competition to change that, barring a deep post season run and/or a competitive game vs Mt Union.

In the North, we know we either get Mt Union or UWW in our bracket every year. All you can do is win your games and get seeded opposite them in your region. That gives you at least a couple post season games and the experience of playing at Mt Union/UWW to help your program try and close the gap. North Central is working on the formula to compete with the big dogs. Their theory is 1 player from every 10 recruits (raising their roster to 150+ this year) and scheduling tough teams across regions to raise their profile (despite it costing them a pool C last year). We will all know in a month or so how it is working out!


Usee, which pool C team made the playoffs last year over North Central?  (I'm trying to find a 2009 bracket on the site but I'm having trouble)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on October 31, 2010, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: USee on October 31, 2010, 12:43:53 PM
Some tgreat thoughts on here. I have been reading with interest over the last few days and thought I'd chime in from an outsiders perspective.

This series of arguments is a repeat of years of arguments we have had in the North and elsewhere the past few years. As a follower of the CCIW and a Wheaton fan, I can speak with some experience as Wheaton has made the playoffs 6 times in the last 15 years. They have won every playoff game in the North to teams not named Mt Union. They won the north region in 2008 (which is the last time UWW or Mt Union were not in the North) and lost to Mt in the Semi's.

I don't think the East is getting screwed by anybody (except maybe the NESCAC). you have 51 eligble teams (61 with the NESCAC teams) and 4 Pool A bids (which would be 5 if not for the ....). the North has 56 teams, the west 58 teams and the south 60 teams. The NCAA won't get rid of the regional concept because they want to reward teams who don't spend money in scheduling. That said I totally agree with the concept that scheduling tough games is NOT rewarded.

In the CCIW this year the conference went 23-1 in non conference games. 7 of their 8 teams are now in the top SOS based on this despite playing the likes of Olivet, greenville, Luther, Albion, Illinois College, Benedictine, etc. Their non AQ (the loser of this weeks NCC/Wheaton game) is a virtual lock for a Pool C based on the SOS and other criteria despite playing a "weak sauce" non conference schedule. Last year, North Central went 8-2 and didn't get in as Pool C because they lost in week 1 to Ohio Northern. Thanks for scheduling. If they had played Olivet and finished 9-1, they are in the playoffs.

Separately, the idea of the East being "weak" stems from 2002 when John Carroll was the OAC #2 and a pool C and won the East bracket, falling to Mt in the semis. Since that time there hasn't been a competitive East game against Mt Union (except maybe Ithaca in 07). Prior to that, the East was perceived to be strong with Rowan and much earlier the likes of Ithaca, Union, Salisbury, etc making deep post season runs. I don't think the perception is accurate, but that is how it has come about IMO. It will take some cross regional competition to change that, barring a deep post season run and/or a competitive game vs Mt Union.

In the North, we know we either get Mt Union or UWW in our bracket every year. All you can do is win your games and get seeded opposite them in your region. That gives you at least a couple post season games and the experience of playing at Mt Union/UWW to help your program try and close the gap. North Central is working on the formula to compete with the big dogs. Their theory is 1 player from every 10 recruits (raising their roster to 150+ this year) and scheduling tough teams across regions to raise their profile (despite it costing them a pool C last year). We will all know in a month or so how it is working out!


Yes, the year before that the Eastern representative St. John Fisher had a competitive game in Mount Union in a 26-14 contest.  I think the East fares the same as Northern teams against Mount Union.  No better, no worse.  I am excited by the East this year though.  We may not have an undefeated team but we have some solid teams.  Bring on Mount Union.  They will have to go through a really strong DVC team and some other solid teams like whichever team represents the NJAC (I like all 3 this year), Fisher if they make it, etc.

By the way how long exactly is the East supposed to be punished by what happened in 2002?  That was 8 years ago...Give us another pool C north team this year instead if you must and let's see what happens.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 01:24:03 PM
Let's not forget 2001 when a clock operator screwed the east.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
I don't mean this to be taken as insulting or anything, I want a serious answer, but give me reasons to be excited about the East's Chances this year. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on October 31, 2010, 01:33:23 PM
Are there any? Do you mean against Mount or UWW? I mean, the opportunity to even play them would be exciting I guess....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 31, 2010, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
I don't mean this to be taken as insulting or anything, I want a serious answer, but give me reasons to be excited about the East's Chances this year. 

Mount's best player is battling an injury (Shorts)...

That's about all I have...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: USee on October 31, 2010, 12:43:53 PM
Some tgreat thoughts on here. I have been reading with interest over the last few days and thought I'd chime in from an outsiders perspective.

This series of arguments is a repeat of years of arguments we have had in the North and elsewhere the past few years. As a follower of the CCIW and a Wheaton fan, I can speak with some experience as Wheaton has made the playoffs 6 times in the last 15 years. They have won every playoff game in the North to teams not named Mt Union. They won the north region in 2008 (which is the last time UWW or Mt Union were not in the North) and lost to Mt in the Semi's.

I don't think the East is getting screwed by anybody (except maybe the NESCAC). you have 51 eligble teams (61 with the NESCAC teams) and 4 Pool A bids (which would be 5 if not for the ....). the North has 56 teams, the west 58 teams and the south 60 teams. The NCAA won't get rid of the regional concept because they want to reward teams who don't spend money in scheduling. That said I totally agree with the concept that scheduling tough games is NOT rewarded.

In the CCIW this year the conference went 23-1 in non conference games. 7 of their 8 teams are now in the top SOS based on this despite playing the likes of Olivet, greenville, Luther, Albion, Illinois College, Benedictine, etc. Their non AQ (the loser of this weeks NCC/Wheaton game) is a virtual lock for a Pool C based on the SOS and other criteria despite playing a "weak sauce" non conference schedule. Last year, North Central went 8-2 and didn't get in as Pool C because they lost in week 1 to Ohio Northern. Thanks for scheduling. If they had played Olivet and finished 9-1, they are in the playoffs.

Separately, the idea of the East being "weak" stems from 2002 when John Carroll was the OAC #2 and a pool C and won the East bracket, falling to Mt in the semis. Since that time there hasn't been a competitive East game against Mt Union (except maybe Ithaca in 07). Prior to that, the East was perceived to be strong with Rowan and much earlier the likes of Ithaca, Union, Salisbury, etc making deep post season runs. I don't think the perception is accurate, but that is how it has come about IMO. It will take some cross regional competition to change that, barring a deep post season run and/or a competitive game vs Mt Union.

In the North, we know we either get Mt Union or UWW in our bracket every year. All you can do is win your games and get seeded opposite them in your region. That gives you at least a couple post season games and the experience of playing at Mt Union/UWW to help your program try and close the gap. North Central is working on the formula to compete with the big dogs. Their theory is 1 player from every 10 recruits (raising their roster to 150+ this year) and scheduling tough teams across regions to raise their profile (despite it costing them a pool C last year). We will all know in a month or so how it is working out!


Usee, which pool C team made the playoffs last year over North Central?  (I'm trying to find a 2009 bracket on the site but I'm having trouble)

W&J
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
I don't mean this to be taken as insulting or anything, I want a serious answer, but give me reasons to be excited about the East's Chances this year. 

This morning on an ESPN college football recap show, they were showing the end of the Air Force/Utah game.  Air Force was down by 6 in the final 2 minutes and was driving towards midfield.  On 4th and 7 they ran an option  (and got sort of stuffed) and the host asked/commented about the play saying something to the effect of "4th and long?  Was the Option the right play?"  And Lou Holtz said "yes it was the right play because they had faith in it".  

Like Booby kind of pointed out.  That is the attitude you have to take.  Stop whining about this small stuff and beat those bastards.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:46:55 PM
Ha.  Using Lou Holtz isn't going to help your argument with me  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 01:47:58 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
I don't mean this to be taken as insulting or anything, I want a serious answer, but give me reasons to be excited about the East's Chances this year.  

This morning on an ESPN college football recap show, they were showing the end of the Air Force/Utah game.  Air Force was down by 6 in the final 2 minutes and was driving towards midfield.  On 4th and 7 they ran an option  (and got sort of stuffed) and the host asked/commented about the play saying something to the effect of "4th and long?  Was the Option the right play?"  And Lou Holtz said "yes it was the right play because they had faith in it".  

Like Booby kind of pointed out.  That is the attitude you have to take.  Stop whining about this small stuff and beat those bastards.

Sometimes it matters not that you beat them, but when you beat them.  Let's put DVC or Wesley, or another East or South team in the Stagg against UWW or Mount.

If they can rearrange the brackets to try and keep teams out of the Stagg (Rowan 1999), they can do it in 2010.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on October 31, 2010, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: USee on October 31, 2010, 12:43:53 PM
Some tgreat thoughts on here. I have been reading with interest over the last few days and thought I'd chime in from an outsiders perspective.

This series of arguments is a repeat of years of arguments we have had in the North and elsewhere the past few years. As a follower of the CCIW and a Wheaton fan, I can speak with some experience as Wheaton has made the playoffs 6 times in the last 15 years. They have won every playoff game in the North to teams not named Mt Union. They won the north region in 2008 (which is the last time UWW or Mt Union were not in the North) and lost to Mt in the Semi's.

I don't think the East is getting screwed by anybody (except maybe the NESCAC). you have 51 eligble teams (61 with the NESCAC teams) and 4 Pool A bids (which would be 5 if not for the ....). the North has 56 teams, the west 58 teams and the south 60 teams. The NCAA won't get rid of the regional concept because they want to reward teams who don't spend money in scheduling. That said I totally agree with the concept that scheduling tough games is NOT rewarded.

In the CCIW this year the conference went 23-1 in non conference games. 7 of their 8 teams are now in the top SOS based on this despite playing the likes of Olivet, greenville, Luther, Albion, Illinois College, Benedictine, etc. Their non AQ (the loser of this weeks NCC/Wheaton game) is a virtual lock for a Pool C based on the SOS and other criteria despite playing a "weak sauce" non conference schedule. Last year, North Central went 8-2 and didn't get in as Pool C because they lost in week 1 to Ohio Northern. Thanks for scheduling. If they had played Olivet and finished 9-1, they are in the playoffs.

Separately, the idea of the East being "weak" stems from 2002 when John Carroll was the OAC #2 and a pool C and won the East bracket, falling to Mt in the semis. Since that time there hasn't been a competitive East game against Mt Union (except maybe Ithaca in 07). Prior to that, the East was perceived to be strong with Rowan and much earlier the likes of Ithaca, Union, Salisbury, etc making deep post season runs. I don't think the perception is accurate, but that is how it has come about IMO. It will take some cross regional competition to change that, barring a deep post season run and/or a competitive game vs Mt Union.

In the North, we know we either get Mt Union or UWW in our bracket every year. All you can do is win your games and get seeded opposite them in your region. That gives you at least a couple post season games and the experience of playing at Mt Union/UWW to help your program try and close the gap. North Central is working on the formula to compete with the big dogs. Their theory is 1 player from every 10 recruits (raising their roster to 150+ this year) and scheduling tough teams across regions to raise their profile (despite it costing them a pool C last year). We will all know in a month or so how it is working out!


Usee, which pool C team made the playoffs last year over North Central?  (I'm trying to find a 2009 bracket on the site but I'm having trouble)

W&J

And would it have been a guarentee that they would have gotten in over W&J with one loss?  W&J may have been overated the last 5 or so years with some duds in the playoffs, but they have had some pretty solid seasons.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 01:50:54 PM
W&J was a controversial 32nd team.  Pat was on ITH with the Chair and hammered at her a bit because the numbers didn't make sense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 01:52:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:46:55 PM
Ha.  Using Lou Holtz isn't going to help your argument with me  :)

This is the same guy that had Joe Namath on bad knees run the option with the Jets in the early 70's.  After I read Under the Tarnished Dome (even if 1/3 true, and 2/3 embellished) Holtz is a sleaze with a polished public persona.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 01:54:13 PM
A minor correction to USee's otherwise excellent post: the CCIW 'only' went 22-2, not 23-1.  Augustana lost a close one to ranked Central and North Park (currently 0 for the millennium in conference play) lost by 2 to Aurora (but beat soon-to-be NathCon champ Benedictine by 11).  I'd also like to see the conference upgrade the non-con schedules, but as been pointed out (and NCC found out last year), there is little incentive to do so.

In response to an earlier question, I don't recall who the pool Cs over NCC were last year, but ALL were one-loss teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on October 31, 2010, 02:06:26 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.


I must start a tangent from this well-taken point.  The "problem"--from every perspective--is that the NCAA makes it clear that its emphasis is on promoting regional competition, in both schedules AND in selecting and seeding teams for the national tournament.  So yes, DelValCol faces the risk of losing to an out-of-region opponent.  However, out of region results are removed from the primary selection and seeding criteria.1   So the "disrespect" is built in to the selection and seeding criteria published by the NCAA, which--to be fair--is consistent with the NCAA's emphasis on promoting regional competition.

1 At least, that is, until the top four tournament seeds are chosen.  Then, as near as I can tell, all bets are off, since there are no published criteria for seeding the top four teams.

(I might be alone in the universe in commending the NCAA for promoting regional competition, and in questioning the marginal value of a national tournament that affects ~13% of teams, over 8, 9, or 10 game seasons for 100% of teams with spirited regionally competitive schedules.)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 02:13:08 PM
A few thoughts after my journey to and from Cortland. >:(

1. Let the East Bracket to the East and see what happens this year. There are enough good teams. As stated earlier UWW and MU are in a league of their own. Can they be beaten, yes but everything must be perfect.

2. This should allow for 2 pool C bids and at the end of it there will still be some deserving teams that will be out. Move in one of the 2 big boys and then it will be down to 1. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. A field goal could of made this a lot easier. Don't think the NCAA will change, but there is always hoping. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 31, 2010, 02:13:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on October 31, 2010, 02:06:26 PM

I must start a tangent from this well-taken point.  The "problem"--from every perspective--is that the NCAA makes it clear that its emphasis is on promoting regional competition, in both schedules AND in selecting and seeding teams for the national tournament.  So yes, DelValCol faces the risk of losing to an out-of-region opponent.  However, out of region results are removed from the primary selection and seeding criteria.1   So the "disrespect" is built in to the selection and seeding criteria published by the NCAA, which--to be fair--is consistent with the NCAA's emphasis on promoting regional competition.

1 At least, that is, until the top four tournament seeds are chosen.  Then, as near as I can tell, all bets are off, since there are no published criteria for seeding the top four teams.

(I might be alone in the universe in commending the NCAA for promoting regional competition, and in questioning the marginal value of a national tournament that affects ~13% of teams, over 8, 9, or 10 game seasons for 100% of teams with spirited regionally competitive schedules.)


Del Valley and Wesley is considered a regional game...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 02:19:14 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 02:13:08 PM
A few thoughts after my journey to and from Cortland. >:(

1. Let the East Bracket to the East and see what happens this year. There are enough good teams. As stated earlier UWW and MU are in a league of their own. Can they be beaten, yes but everything must be perfect.

2. This should allow for 2 pool C bids and at the end of it there will still be some deserving teams that will be out. Move in one of the 2 big boys and then it will be down to 1. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. A field goal could of made this a lot easier. Don't think the NCAA will change, but there is always hoping. ;D

Just because MTU is moved in doesn't mean the Eastern teams would get one less Pool C.  A Pool C from the East could be moved into the South Bracket, or the North Bracket just as easily.  The Bracket set up has no effect on who they choose for Pool C. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on October 31, 2010, 02:37:40 PM
No one is penalizing the East for 2002. I'm just saying where the perception came from. Prior to that the perception was that the East was a beast. That came from the Rowan/mt union 99 game. So the 2002 perception changes when another 99 Rowan comes along I suppose.

WJ was being considered last year along w 8-2 ONU (who beat north central). NCC at 9-1 would have been a virtual lock over WJ last year.

The committee sets the field of 32 before they consider seedings and regional brackets. So mt union north vs South has no bearing over the Pool C selections.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on October 31, 2010, 02:45:42 PM
Bottom line is that the East isn't being punished, they're just evening out the brackets.

How much sense would it have to see the top 4 teams 9-1 in the east and the top 4 teams 10-0 in the North?

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on October 31, 2010, 02:47:49 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 31, 2010, 02:13:52 PM
Quote from: redswarm81 on October 31, 2010, 02:06:26 PM

I must start a tangent from this well-taken point.  The "problem"--from every perspective--is that the NCAA makes it clear that its emphasis is on promoting regional competition, in both schedules AND in selecting and seeding teams for the national tournament.  So yes, DelValCol faces the risk of losing to an out-of-region opponent.  However, out of region results are removed from the primary selection and seeding criteria.1   So the "disrespect" is built in to the selection and seeding criteria published by the NCAA, which--to be fair--is consistent with the NCAA's emphasis on promoting regional competition.

1 At least, that is, until the top four tournament seeds are chosen.  Then, as near as I can tell, all bets are off, since there are no published criteria for seeding the top four teams.

(I might be alone in the universe in commending the NCAA for promoting regional competition, and in questioning the marginal value of a national tournament that affects ~13% of teams, over 8, 9, or 10 game seasons for 100% of teams with spirited regionally competitive schedules.)


Del Valley and Wesley is considered a regional game...

D'oheth!! (http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/poitier/135/doheth.wav) Thou hast corrected me, and properly so.  Never mind some of what I said.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on October 31, 2010, 03:02:22 PM
The bottom line is, if you look at  the last 5 years it has been a 2 horse race. North, South, East, West, it hasn't mattered. There are 2 teams and everybody else. The rest of this is us beating our chest to say "We are 3rd best....No, WE ARE...etc".  Somebody has to beat Mt Union and/or UWW in the playoffs otherwise we are arguing over 3rd place.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on October 31, 2010, 03:45:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on October 31, 2010, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on October 31, 2010, 09:43:06 AM
QuoteThe only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

This is the main point though, but I still don't think it is such a big deal since the only thing that really changes is that the easts best team has to face MUC in round 3 instead of round 4.

As a small tease to Keith's article this week, here's my answer to this question when he posed it to me:

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out and schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.


Ok.  But what risk did Del Val really take?  Isn't that the same risk Ithaca takes by scheduling Union, Lycoming or Cortland?  Or the risk Union takes by playing Springfield or Ithaca?  Ithaca, Union and Del Val know that for all intents and purposes, they have to win their league to make the playoffs.  If Del Val is really worried about getting the number 1 seed in the east, then yea, don't play Wesley and go 10-0 in the MAC.  But what would have happend if Del Val beat Wesley but lost the league to a 9-1 Albright like what happened last year?  What happens is that Del Val probably makes the playoffs because of the win against Wesley (which they almost did anyway).  So the pro of having that extra game would be to actually making the playoffs while the con would be to having one more home game in round 3?  Thats why I think the pros overweigh the cons in that situation.

As for the extra week of practice, yea that helps but that is a very minor issue in the long run in my opinion.  It might help you for the next season, but for the season at hand, teams that are playing in week 13 all have 13 weeks of practice don't they?  And you might even have an advantage against Mt. Union earlier in the playoffs because you aren't as banged up or as tired in round 1 like you might be in round 4.  Mount Union is used to playing 14-15 games, Ithaca, Union and Hobart are not.  It might give east teams an advantage in round 1 againts MUC.  (edit: I would see an advantage of playing in a stagg bowl, but I do not see that much of an advantage playing in a semifinal game)

Right now, the Committee would treat that Wesley win as a pure win.  Not a win vs. Wesley.  It doesn't look like the Committee is doing much "win differentiation" or "loss differentiation."  I'd like to see DelVal/Wesley remain because it can only make DelVal better in the longrun unless they will be penalized by losing a quality game later in the process.  Why should scheduling Wesley early hurt DelVal if Wesley is likely going to be the top South team year to year?  If DVC loses to a MAC team and loses the MAC through that (8-2), DVC is done for the season -- that DelVal/Wesley game is suddenly a death knell when combined with the Albright or Lycoming loss.  Where's the reward for scheduling?  I'd say that DVC has taken a larger risk than Ithaca and Union, etc.  It's more on the keel of the risk SJF took vs. MUC for two years.  That game was not going to benefit SJF -- it required SJF to go undefeated for the rest of the season to enter the playoffs, while everyone else could still burn a game and potentially make it.  Again -- NO INCENTIVE.

Part of the problem here is that you're seeing just one part of my argument.  Keith said he'll be posting my entire argument later in the week -- so I might sit back now and let you guys argue the points that I have included so far.  Incentivization of scheduling is a huge thing -- and that scheduling needs to break regional boundaries to make things a little more interesting (and to spread losses to the other regions instead of containing them within four quality conferences).  More later in the week.

so well put frank...scares the hell out me that we agree so much on this point  ;D    when you look at it from the entire piece of work not small individual pieces, its a huge problem imho....the more we open it up for discussion/debate hopefully some kind of change will come out of it. (of course we are dealing w/ the ncaa here so it may take 50 years for change)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 04:34:59 PM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 02:19:14 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 02:13:08 PM
A few thoughts after my journey to and from Cortland. >:(

1. Let the East Bracket to the East and see what happens this year. There are enough good teams. As stated earlier UWW and MU are in a league of their own. Can they be beaten, yes but everything must be perfect.

2. This should allow for 2 pool C bids and at the end of it there will still be some deserving teams that will be out. Move in one of the 2 big boys and then it will be down to 1. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. A field goal could of made this a lot easier. Don't think the NCAA will change, but there is always hoping. ;D

Just because MTU is moved in doesn't mean the Eastern teams would get one less Pool C.  A Pool C from the East could be moved into the South Bracket, or the North Bracket just as easily.  The Bracket set up has no effect on who they choose for Pool C. 

I've seen Rowan get a pool C and moved to the South... in baseball  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:08:08 PM
Here's one more Hold 'em analogy.  It would be nice to occasionally get a better starting hand like South and the West.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:19:01 PM
Did anyone else catch that sick TD run by Chris Johnson... Wow  :o
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 05:27:07 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:19:01 PM
Did anyone else catch that sick TD run by Chris Johnson... Wow  :o

Did anyone else catch the Lions game - 17 points in under 2 minutes late in the 4th to beat the 'skins by 12?! :o

I didn't catch it, 'cuz the Lions have been so pathetic for so long that the game was blacked out locally! ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:37:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 05:27:07 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:19:01 PM
Did anyone else catch that sick TD run by Chris Johnson... Wow  :o

Did anyone else catch the Lions game - 17 points in under 2 minutes late in the 4th to beat the 'skins by 12?! :o

I didn't catch it, 'cuz the Lions have been so pathetic for so long that the game was blacked out locally! ;)

Until midnight this morning we were effectively blacked out of the NFC with the Cablevision/FOX fued.  The Lions are on the right path, for a change.  The Jets better make their move now.  Belichick has like 10 #1's,  15 #2's, and 30 #3's in 2011.... slight exaggeration... he's loaded with picks.  The Gints (purposely misspelled) are also looking good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.

And until you've been on the cover of SI a dozen times, and make $20 million a year, what do you suppose your odds are?! ;D

I assume Mrs. JT must never read these boards! :o
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.

And until you've been on the cover of SI a dozen times, and make $20 million a year, what do you suppose your odds are?! ;D

I assume Mrs. JT must never read these boards! :o

He's got you JT.  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.

And until you've been on the cover of SI a dozen times, and make $20 million a year, what do you suppose your odds are?! ;D

I assume Mrs. JT must never read these boards! :o

I never even made faces in the crowd.

She doesn't read these boards but she lets me be me.  I can talk and I can look (she does too), and dream of she, me, and the hot maid, au pair or nanny.

I always say... dare to dream, she might say yes one day.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on October 31, 2010, 06:34:51 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.

And until you've been on the cover of SI a dozen times, and make $20 million a year, what do you suppose your odds are?! ;D

I assume Mrs. JT must never read these boards! :o

He's got you JT.  ;D

She was the first woman invited to my crib that didn't tell me to get rid of the Playboy and Penthouse subs.  I knew she was a keeper.

Before her there were at least a few... now you are dating me... you don't need these.  One such "relationship" was two weeks old.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 06:34:51 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.

And until you've been on the cover of SI a dozen times, and make $20 million a year, what do you suppose your odds are?! ;D

I assume Mrs. JT must never read these boards! :o

He's got you JT.  ;D

She was the first woman invited to my crib that didn't tell me to get rid of the Playboy and Penthouse subs.  I knew she was a keeper.

Before her there were at least a few... now you are dating me... you don't need these.  One such "relationship" was two weeks old.

Only in your dreams, big guy! :o ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 08:37:51 PM
rams1102
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I've just looked at the Week #9 D-3 Football Poll. I'm totaly confused :

As of last week I had Alfred and Ursinus out and Cortland in. I can't believe that Montclair went from #14 to #27 after a game we lost by 1 point, and Fisher wins and is out of the top 25. IMHO Montclair and Fisher get screwed as a pool "C". I have no love for Rowan, but #23 ahead of Montclair & Fisher. The rankings really mean whatever they are, but this sends a sign of the Pool "C" picks. I think Montclair will be a candicate for an ECAC no matter how everything plays out.
 

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Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 01, 2010, 09:15:45 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
I don't mean this to be taken as insulting or anything, I want a serious answer, but give me reasons to be excited about the East's Chances this year. 

You guys will probably think I'm crazy, but if I was an east region team I would want Mount shifted to the east this season.  The best way to get the respect each of you desire is to beat Mount.  And the earlier you do it in the playoffs the better.  The last time Mount has failed to make the semi-finals was 1994 when they lost in round 2 to Albion.  If an east team could knock Mount out of the regional bracket, the entire east region would be validated regardless of what that team does the next week.

Now why I said the above is because 2010 might be your best chance at beating Mount since the 2003 and probably for the next couple years as they're very young and inconsistent. 

Arguably the best offensive player in D3 (WR - Cecil Shorts) is injured with no timetable on his return.  They start sophomores at QB, TB and at #1 WR and have only 2 starters back on the O-line from '09.  With Shorts out, the returning starters on offense are the LG, RG, TE and FB.

Defensively they're even younger with only a CB, LB and FS returning from '09.  Biggest concern defensively is the D-line where they start one senior, two sophomores and one freshman.    The D-line rotation includes two more sophomores and a freshman coming off the bench.   

And in case you haven't noticed, Mount hasn't been very "Mount-like" this season.  They struggled offensively with 2-6 Marietta (28-14 win) and 4-4 Otterbein (28-10 win), by contrast Mount beat those two teams 56-0 and 58-7 last year.  And Otterbein was much better in '09 as they finished 8-2 overall.  They're still winning, but it isn't the same explosive juggernaut that we're used to seeing.  I could see a really good defense (like Wesley or UWW from last year) holding this Mount offense to 14-17 points.

Call me crazy, but I think the later in the playoffs you face Mount, the less your chances are going to be.  Their youth should become more consistent as the rounds go by.

If the NCAA is going to ship in a #1 seed, I think you guys would be better off facing this Mount team than Wesley.  I know the Mount Union name carries a lot of weight, but I don't think the 2010 Raiders are any different than North Central, St. Thomas, Wheaton, MHB, Wesley, etc.  They're a very good team that could make some serious noise in the playoffs if they play well, but they're not a huge favorite to make it to Virginia like they've been the last few years. 

Now, I'm not saying Mount sucks and can't make it back to Virginia, but outside of the first round I doubt there is anyone they'll face in the playoffs that won't be a threat to beat them.   In previous years, there has usually been only 1 playoff game before the Stagg that makes them sweat, but this year is likely going to resemble 1998 where every game was a close battle that could have went either way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 01, 2010, 09:57:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 06:34:51 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on October 31, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2010, 06:21:44 PM
Quote from: JT on October 31, 2010, 05:42:34 PM
Watching Pats vs. Vikes and thinking, I could get away with a haircut like that if I was nailing Gisele Bundchen.

And until you've been on the cover of SI a dozen times, and make $20 million a year, what do you suppose your odds are?! ;D

I assume Mrs. JT must never read these boards! :o

He's got you JT.  ;D

She was the first woman invited to my crib that didn't tell me to get rid of the Playboy and Penthouse subs.  I knew she was a keeper.

Before her there were at least a few... now you are dating me... you don't need these.  One such "relationship" was two weeks old.

Only in your dreams, big guy! :o ;D

You are following my thought process above, in that I passed on the over controlling women before MJT.  Right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 01, 2010, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 01, 2010, 09:15:45 AM
Quote from: pg04 on October 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM
I don't mean this to be taken as insulting or anything, I want a serious answer, but give me reasons to be excited about the East's Chances this year. 

You guys will probably think I'm crazy, but if I was an east region team I would want Mount shifted to the east this season.  The best way to get the respect each of you desire is to beat Mount.  And the earlier you do it in the playoffs the better.  The last time Mount has failed to make the semi-finals was 1994 when they lost in round 2 to Albion.  If an east team could knock Mount out of the regional bracket, the entire east region would be validated regardless of what that team does the next week.

Now why I said the above is because 2010 might be your best chance at beating Mount since the 2003 and probably for the next couple years as they're very young and inconsistent. 

Arguably the best offensive player in D3 (WR - Cecil Shorts) is injured with no timetable on his return.  They start sophomores at QB, TB and at #1 WR and have only 2 starters back on the O-line from '09.  With Shorts out, the returning starters on offense are the LG, RG, TE and FB.

Defensively they're even younger with only a CB, LB and FS returning from '09.  Biggest concern defensively is the D-line where they start one senior, two sophomores and one freshman.    The D-line rotation includes two more sophomores and a freshman coming off the bench.   

And in case you haven't noticed, Mount hasn't been very "Mount-like" this season.  They struggled offensively with 2-6 Marietta (28-14 win) and 4-4 Otterbein (28-10 win), by contrast Mount beat those two teams 56-0 and 58-7 last year.  And Otterbein was much better in '09 as they finished 8-2 overall.  They're still winning, but it isn't the same explosive juggernaut that we're used to seeing.  I could see a really good defense (like Wesley or UWW from last year) holding this Mount offense to 14-17 points.

Call me crazy, but I think the later in the playoffs you face Mount, the less your chances are going to be.  Their youth should become more consistent as the rounds go by.

If the NCAA is going to ship in a #1 seed, I think you guys would be better off facing this Mount team than Wesley.  I know the Mount Union name carries a lot of weight, but I don't think the 2010 Raiders are any different than North Central, St. Thomas, Wheaton, MHB, Wesley, etc.  They're a very good team that could make some serious noise in the playoffs if they play well, but they're not a huge favorite to make it to Virginia like they've been the last few years. 

Now, I'm not saying Mount sucks and can't make it back to Virginia, but outside of the first round I doubt there is anyone they'll face in the playoffs that won't be a threat to beat them.   In previous years, there has usually been only 1 playoff game before the Stagg that makes them sweat, but this year is likely going to resemble 1998 where every game was a close battle that could have went either way.


Is the OAC down overall this year?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 01, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
JT:

I believe the OAC is down offensively, but the defenses are about the same as last year. 

The best QB Mount has probably played is the kid from Oshkosh, but it's hard to get a good read on that game since it was Oshkosh's 2nd game but Mount's opener and Mount had 8 new starters on defense making a long road trip.  Mount is breaking in a new QB who has had some growing pains, but he's still the 2nd best QB in the OAC I've seen behind Andrew Miller of Heidelberg.  Yes, Heidelberg.  Ohio Northern is a solid team, a lot like Montclair State last year, but lacks a true game changer on offense to really scare you.   Capital is on their way down to the cellar, but ONU is way up to replace them as the 2nd place team.   Otterbein has some talent, but is sorely lacking a QB.  John Carroll, Muskingum, Marietta, etc all are below average.  We play Baldwin Wallace this weekend who's supposed to have a pretty good transfer QB, but they needed 2 special teams returns for TD to beat Otterbein and ONU shut them down so I'm rather skeptical on BW's hope.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 01, 2010, 12:40:50 PM
good stuff coach k+

my projection saturday was:

1. MUC vs. 8. LL champ (questionable given it's just under the 500 mile NCAA limit)
3. NJAC champ vs. 6. NEFC champ (see below)
2. DVC vs. 7 Pool C (NJAC runner up)
4. E8 Champ vs. 5. SUNY M (could see this flip flopped if Alfred beats IC and is 8-2 as the Pool A)

Now I think the bracket could get very tricky if/when Maine Maritime wins the NEFC.  Castine is WAY up there and will cause travel issues for the Committee.

Castine to Glassboro is over 500 miles.  I think the closest drive would ironically be SLU (~425 miles).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 06:28:27 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 01, 2010, 12:40:50 PM
good stuff coach k+

my projection saturday was:

1. MUC vs. 8. LL champ (questionable given it's just under the 500 mile NCAA limit)
3. NJAC champ vs. 6. NEFC champ (see below)
2. DVC vs. 7 Pool C (NJAC runner up)
4. E8 Champ vs. 5. SUNY M (could see this flip flopped if Alfred beats IC and is 8-2 as the Pool A)

Now I think the bracket could get very tricky if/when Maine Maritime wins the NEFC.  Castine is WAY up there and will cause travel issues for the Committee.

Castine to Glassboro is over 500 miles.  I think the closest drive would ironically be SLU (~425 miles).

TGP if Cortland wins the NJAC and Ithaca smokes Cortland bad, do you think Ithaca gets the pool C bid with 2 loses?  Or do the national pool C teams have too much right now?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
I think there are way, way too many 1-loss teams for Ithaca to get a sniff. A lot needs to happen before we start talking 2-loss teams seriously for Pool C.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 06:32:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
I think there are way, way too many 1-loss teams for Ithaca to get a sniff. A lot needs to happen before we start talking 2-loss teams seriously for Pool C.

Yea thats what I thought.  How about if SUNY Maritime loses next week.  Do they make it?  Just looked at Rowan's schedule this year.  A lot of wins, but all of them seem to be close while Cortland has blown out most of those same teams. They also beat Cortland and Lycoming where IC lost to Lycoming. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 01, 2010, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 

According to the FAQs, yes...

The only way a Pool of teams can be shorted a bid is when a 4th Pool B warrants a bid over a Pool C...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 

According to the FAQs, yes...

The only way a Pool of teams can be shorted a bid is when a 4th Pool B warrants a bid over a Pool C...

Yea that is the way I read it too.  Doesn't make too much sense if you ask me.  I must be missing something.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 01, 2010, 07:44:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 

According to the FAQs, yes...

The only way a Pool of teams can be shorted a bid is when a 4th Pool B warrants a bid over a Pool C...

Yea that is the way I read it too.  Doesn't make too much sense if you ask me.  I must be missing something.

Yeah what happens if the 3rd best Pool B is a 6-4 team (it's not the case this year)?

How can they honestly justify that?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 01, 2010, 07:46:54 PM
Agree with Pat - 2 losses isn't going to cut it this year, especially when one potential 9-1 NJAC team and possibly SJFC could be SOL depending on how things pan out.

I really only see 1 Pool C from the east if SUNY M goes 10-0.  I suppose it's possible SUNY M could be shifted to the "Wesley/South bracket" but guessing that won't happen.

Maine Maritime is less than 500 miles from Throggs....the committee could send them (assuming they win the NEFC) down for an all maritime bowl in the first round of the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 07:51:04 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 01, 2010, 07:46:54 PM
Agree with Pat - 2 losses isn't going to cut it this year, especially when one potential 9-1 NJAC team and possibly SJFC could be SOL depending on how things pan out.

I really only see 1 Pool C from the east if SUNY M goes 10-0.  I suppose it's possible SUNY M could be shifted to the "Wesley/South bracket" but guessing that won't happen.

Maine Maritime is less than 500 miles from Throggs....the committee could send them (assuming they win the NEFC) down for an all maritime bowl in the first round of the playoffs.


Yea but if the NJAC team is 9-1 and SJF is a pool C, that would mean Ithaca would have lost to Alfred and/or Cortland anway.  But if Ithaca spanks Aflred and then Cortland, could you take IC over Rowan or Montclair?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 01, 2010, 07:57:56 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 01, 2010, 07:46:54 PM
Agree with Pat - 2 losses isn't going to cut it this year, especially when one potential 9-1 NJAC team and possibly SJFC could be SOL depending on how things pan out.

I really only see 1 Pool C from the east if SUNY M goes 10-0.  I suppose it's possible SUNY M could be shifted to the "Wesley/South bracket" but guessing that won't happen.

Maine Maritime is less than 500 miles from Throggs....the committee could send them (assuming they win the NEFC) down for an all maritime bowl in the first round of the playoffs.


If those two teams are matched up vs each other it would be a travishamockery...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2010, 08:18:34 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

SUNY-Maritime will likely move to #4 or #5 in the East Regional Rankings Wednesday -- the win vs. Norwich was against a #8 team in last week's rankings, meaning we could see Alfred (and potentially Montclair) thud below them.  However, that in and of itself doesn't guarantee selection.  What does pretty much guarantee it is that the Committee has enough trouble picking a 2-loss Pool C team over a 1-loss Pool C team.  Do you REALLY think the Committee will pick a 2-loss Pool B team over a 0-loss Pool B team?  The same rules apply -- there are no direct links between SUNY-Maritime and any of the Pool B teams, so the fact that the Regional Subcomittee has SUNY-Maritime on the radar and the idea that Pool B is looking at less than three 1-loss teams virtually guarantees SUNY-Maritime's selection.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2010, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:44:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 

According to the FAQs, yes...

The only way a Pool of teams can be shorted a bid is when a 4th Pool B warrants a bid over a Pool C...

Yea that is the way I read it too.  Doesn't make too much sense if you ask me.  I must be missing something.

Yeah what happens if the 3rd best Pool B is a 6-4 team (it's not the case this year)?

How can they honestly justify that?

The rationale (accept it or not) is that pool B teams get invites at a rate to approximate the odds of a team in a pool A conference getting a bid.

In basketball a few years back a 12-13 team got a pool B bid.  So, yeah, if it came to that they would take a 6-4 pool B team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 08:27:32 PM
So here are the possible pool C teams with one loss as I can see it (besides the NJAC teams, and if Ithaca won out, they might be ranked around 25-30 at that point.)

Ohio Northern
Bethel
Augustana/North Central loser
Wartburg/Central/Coe (2 of those teams have a good chance of having 1 loss)
Pacific Lutheran
Hardin Simmons (they have a 50% chance of losing one more game)
Wittenburg (if they lose to Wabash)
Thomas Moore (if they lose to Waynesburg which probably won't happen)
Trine (Would they make it if they lose to a 6-4 conference champ Albion?)
Hamden-Sydney (if they lose one of their last two games which they probably wont)
Redlands

Yea those are a lot of good teams in there.  My only hope for Ithaca would be this:
Hardin Simmons loses another game.
Wartburg beats Central, Coe loses to Buena Vista
Wittenberg beats Wabash

Then it looks like there might be a spot or two for an east team and Ithaca would hope they would get picked over an NJAC one loss team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2010, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2010, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:44:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 

According to the FAQs, yes...

The only way a Pool of teams can be shorted a bid is when a 4th Pool B warrants a bid over a Pool C...

Yea that is the way I read it too.  Doesn't make too much sense if you ask me.  I must be missing something.

Yeah what happens if the 3rd best Pool B is a 6-4 team (it's not the case this year)?

How can they honestly justify that?

The rationale (accept it or not) is that pool B teams get invites at a rate to approximate the odds of a team in a pool A conference getting a bid.

In basketball a few years back a 12-13 team got a pool B bid.  So, yeah, if it came to that they would take a 6-4 pool B team.

Look no further than Pool A's potential SLU problem.  SLU would potentially still make the tournament at 4-6 or 5-5, with a guaranteed finish of no better than 6-4.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 01, 2010, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 08:27:32 PM
So here are the possible pool C teams with one loss as I can see it (besides the NJAC teams, and if Ithaca won out, they might be ranked around 25-30 at that point.)

Ohio Northern
Bethel
Augustana/North Central loser
Wartburg/Central/Coe (2 of those teams have a good chance of having 1 loss)
Pacific Lutheran
Hardin Simmons (they have a 50% chance of losing one more game)
Wittenburg (if they lose to Wabash)
Thomas Moore (if they lose to Waynesburg which probably won't happen)
Trine (Would they make it if they lose to a 6-4 conference champ Albion?)
Hamden-Sydney (if they lose one of their last two games which they probably wont)
Redlands

Yea those are a lot of good teams in there.  My only hope for Ithaca would be this:
Hardin Simmons loses another game.
Wartburg beats Central, Coe loses to Buena Vista
Wittenberg beats Wabash

Then it looks like there might be a spot or two for an east team and Ithaca would hope they would get picked over an NJAC one loss team.

SJF is a one loss team as well that might be sitting home come playoff time even if they end up 9-1...

There is no possible way to justify an 8-2 Ithaca over a 9-1 SJF/Rowan...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2010, 09:11:24 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 08:27:32 PM
So here are the possible pool C teams with one loss as I can see it (besides the NJAC teams, and if Ithaca won out, they might be ranked around 25-30 at that point.)

Ohio Northern
Bethel
Augustana/North Central loser
Wartburg/Central/Coe (2 of those teams have a good chance of having 1 loss)
Pacific Lutheran
Hardin Simmons (they have a 50% chance of losing one more game)
Wittenburg (if they lose to Wabash)
Thomas Moore (if they lose to Waynesburg which probably won't happen)
Trine (Would they make it if they lose to a 6-4 conference champ Albion?)
Hamden-Sydney (if they lose one of their last two games which they probably wont)
Redlands

Yea those are a lot of good teams in there.  My only hope for Ithaca would be this:
Hardin Simmons loses another game.
Wartburg beats Central, Coe loses to Buena Vista
Wittenberg beats Wabash

Then it looks like there might be a spot or two for an east team and Ithaca would hope they would get picked over an NJAC one loss team.

SJF is a one loss team as well that might be sitting home come playoff time even if they end up 9-1...

There is no possible way to justify an 8-2 Ithaca over a 9-1 SJF/Rowan...



Well SJF would have to win the league and Rowan might have to as well in order for IC to make it.  But I do think the NJAC is a weaker conference and a strong finish by Ithaca could put them in over Montclair.  A late loss to Cortland with a late Ithaca stomping of Cortland might convince the committee.  Stranger things have happened.  And who knows, maybe this is the year where the NCAA awards goog non league games?  (not that Ithaca has a fanstic non league schedule)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 01, 2010, 09:34:49 PM
Again, from no on everyone should play all cupcakes and just focus on getting into the tourney right? Forget rivalries, challenges, etc. Create a schedule that will allow your team if it is half way decent to go undefeated...problem solved :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 01, 2010, 09:44:26 PM
This is all like politics. It sucks.  ::) All I can say is : Montclair, kick ass & take numbers. Then let the chips fall where they may, and don't miss another chip shot. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 10:32:27 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:44:46 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 01, 2010, 07:40:09 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 01, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
I can't see SUNY Maritime getting in unless they win out, and even then I don't think it is 100%.  The quality of competition borders on horrendous, and I don't think the NCAA uses the flawed strength of schedule formula as much as they have in the past.  I think the committee is knowledgeable enough to know Norwich was a cellar dweller in the E-8, and is suddenly a contender for the championship in the ECFC.

The ECFC won't get respect until they beat some quality OOC teams.  The same way that nobody worried about Curry until they beat Hartwick and Ithaca in the playoffs.

I guess what I really want to know is if there has to be 3 pool B teams in the playoffs. 

According to the FAQs, yes...

The only way a Pool of teams can be shorted a bid is when a 4th Pool B warrants a bid over a Pool C...

Yea that is the way I read it too.  Doesn't make too much sense if you ask me.  I must be missing something.

Yeah what happens if the 3rd best Pool B is a 6-4 team (it's not the case this year)?

How can they honestly justify that?

Just like there's no way the NJAC champ would be left out if it finished 6-4. These are the "automatic bids" for the teams not fortunate enough to be in other conferences.

In the unlikely event that there aren't three Pool B-eligible teams .500 or better, then Pool B would be shorted a bid.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 01, 2010, 07:46:54 PM
I really only see 1 Pool C from the east if SUNY M goes 10-0.

As always, these are UNRELATED. The identity of the Pool B teams has no effect on the identity of the Pool C teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2010, 08:25:26 PM

In basketball a few years back a 12-13 team got a pool B bid.  So, yeah, if it came to that they would take a 6-4 pool B team.

Not true. 13-12.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2010, 10:43:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2010, 08:25:26 PM

In basketball a few years back a 12-13 team got a pool B bid.  So, yeah, if it came to that they would take a 6-4 pool B team.

Not true. 13-12.
University of Dallas in 2003-04 (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UDAL/mens/2004).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2010, 10:44:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2010, 08:25:26 PM

In basketball a few years back a 12-13 team got a pool B bid.  So, yeah, if it came to that they would take a 6-4 pool B team.

Not true. 13-12.

There have been a few occurrences of this in modem tourney history:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_team_had_the_worst_record_in_NCAA_history_yet_went_on_to_make_it_into_the_tournament




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2010, 11:13:23 PM
I stand corrected.  I remembered it was U-Dallas (and remember the HUGE outrage from fans who narrowly missed pool C bids), but misremembered their record by one.  So there is a .500 cut-off for pool B?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 11:14:37 PM
There's a general .500 cutoff for at-large bids, and Pool B bids are considered as such -- even though they're not really "at-large."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 10:18:17 AM
Random question: Is there a quick and easy way to find out all the teams with 0 or 1 loss? I know we usually wind up discussing if a two-loss team could get in, and it usually depends on how many 1 loss teams there wind up being. I'd love to be able to track those teams in the final weeks, and just know who to root against
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
Ok so I just got thinking about what someone said about beating MUC this year and having a real chance. Here is what I was thinking of an east bracket even though its probably unrealistic....

1 MUC
2 Del Val
3 Empire 8
4 NJAC
5 Suny Maritime
6 NEFC
7 SLU
8 NJAC Runner up

I just don't think a runner up should be rank so high and I think they could beat up on MUC a little for the next week when they should face the NJAC champion who could have a legit chance at beating MUC. Assuming MSU is the NJAC Champs, they held with them in the first half last year and MUC is a little weaker this year while Mont Clair has got better.  I'm just saying why let MUC have a walk through in the first and second round?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 10:26:17 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 10:18:17 AM
Random question: Is there a quick and easy way to find out all the teams with 0 or 1 loss? I know we usually wind up discussing if a two-loss team could get in, and it usually depends on how many 1 loss teams there wind up being. I'd love to be able to track those teams in the final weeks, and just know who to root against

Standings page has every team. Not sorted in that order but it's all there on one page at least.

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2010/index
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 10:49:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 10:26:17 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 10:18:17 AM
Random question: Is there a quick and easy way to find out all the teams with 0 or 1 loss? I know we usually wind up discussing if a two-loss team could get in, and it usually depends on how many 1 loss teams there wind up being. I'd love to be able to track those teams in the final weeks, and just know who to root against

Standings page has every team. Not sorted in that order but it's all there on one page at least.

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2010/index

Thanks Pat.

Looks like 35 teams with 0 or 1 (not counting Case Western/Wesley who are pool B--I believe). Yeah, really dicey for the two loss teams.

Is the number of teams with 3-4 losses with Pool A chances higher this season than normal? Correct me if any of these teams aren't Pool A for some reason like not playing in the playoffs, but the USAC, MWC, UMAC, LL will all have teams with at least three in the playoffs. I know we usually get a couple, but four strikes me as a lot.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 10:52:07 AM
The UMAC doesn't have an automatic bid until next year but it always seems like there is one or two 6-4 teams in the playoffs. The NATHC has sent teams like that in the past, as did the ODAC a couple years ago. The Midwest Conference is almost always 10-0 or 9-1 heading into the postseason, and the Liberty League champ at 6-4 would be unusual but there's usually someone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
I hate to sound completely out of it....But if Fisher beats SC on Saterday THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH A LOCK..right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
I hate to sound completely out of it....But if Fisher beats SC on Saterday THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH A LOCK..right?

From what I've gathered, they'd be in good shape. But hey, judging by the way some of these Alfred guys took the loss, you may wind up with the Pool A anyway. By the way, I hope you guys play a horrible game Saturday. (And you still have to root for us, just in case you get the short end of a 9-1 season! Muhahahaha!)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 02, 2010, 11:03:16 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
I hate to sound completely out of it....But if Fisher beats SC on Saterday THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH A LOCK..right?

Going 9-1, I think so.  whether it be because Alfred lost and you get the Pool A or not, I would think you'd be safe...Just my opinion though.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 02, 2010, 11:18:15 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
I hate to sound completely out of it....But if Fisher beats SC on Saterday THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH A LOCK..right?

From the current Regional Rankings, Fisher is behind Rowan and Montclair, not sure where that will end up though.  Have we decided who wins the NJAC yet?  If it's Cortland, then Fisher could conceivably be third in line (though I think that Montclair falls behind them).

The earlier Fisher is on the board, the better their chance of getting picked (obviously).  So, here are the other 1-loss, regionally ranked teams that I see out there:

North: Ohio Northern, Wheaton/North Central loser, Wittenberg/Wabash loser
South: Hardin-Simmons
West: Coe, Bethel, Redlands, Pacific Lutheran

That's 11 teams vying for 6 spots.  A couple might lose these next two weeks, but there's also the possibility that a couple conference leaders could get bumped and end up in the mix as well (Hampden-Sydney, Wartburg, Mount Union, etc.).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 02, 2010, 11:19:24 AM
Quote from: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
Ok so I just got thinking about what someone said about beating MUC this year and having a real chance. Here is what I was thinking of an east bracket even though its probably unrealistic....

1 MUC
2 Del Val
3 Empire 8
4 NJAC
5 Suny Maritime
6 NEFC
7 SLU
8 NJAC Runner up

I just don't think a runner up should be rank so high and I think they could beat up on MUC a little for the next week when they should face the NJAC champion who could have a legit chance at beating MUC. Assuming MSU is the NJAC Champs, they held with them in the first half last year and MUC is a little weaker this year while Mont Clair has got better.  I'm just saying why let MUC have a walk through in the first and second round?


If the Pool C comes from the NJAC or the E? they will be the #5 seed in your scenario above.  No matter if you think a runner should not be ranked higher SLU would probably be the first victim for UMU.  The 4th place NJAC or E? team is most likely better than your 5, 6 or 7 up there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2010, 11:24:11 AM
This is just a gut feeling but I believe there are going to be two 9-1 teams in the east that are going to be very unhappy come selection day...

I think SJF and the NJAC runner-up might get the short end of the stick...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2010, 11:29:16 AM
Upstate- If Fisher goes 9-1 and doesnt make the NCAAS there will be some real 'splainin to do.
I cant see a scenerio where they dont get in.
One in conference loss?
Hell i should just hope IC beats AU so Fisher gets the AQ instead!

Ick- root for IC....But hell ill do it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
I'm just saying why let MUC have a walk through in the first and second round?


Because the whole point of being #1 is that you're rewarded with that walk. The idea isn't to make it tougher for MUC (or any 1-seed), it's to make it easier. St Lawrence would be the worst team by far in the region (sorry LL guys) and therefore, that should the match-up.

How is you scenario fair to anyone? It gives MUC and the NJAC runner-up a tougher opponent than they deserve (each other) while simultaneously rewarding St. Lawrence and Delaware Valley with an easier opponent than they deserve
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 02, 2010, 12:11:49 PM
I think Fisher probably has a little more clout in the selection process just because of their recent past.  I think they SHOULD be a lock at 9-1.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2010, 12:14:19 PM
We also have to remember that for many years the Stagg Bowl have been bad blowouts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 12:43:12 PM
I agree that the NJAC's 3rd or 4th place team could beat 5,6,7. What i am saying is that if your conference has an AQ then i think you should be able to have higher rankings. I mean that team won their conference whether its the ECFC or the NJAC.

Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
I’m just saying why let MUC have a walk through in the first and second round?


Because the whole point of being #1 is that you're rewarded with that walk. The idea isn't to make it tougher for MUC (or any 1-seed), it's to make it easier. St Lawrence would be the worst team by far in the region (sorry LL guys) and therefore, that should the match-up.

How is you scenario fair to anyone? It gives MUC and the NJAC runner-up a tougher opponent than they deserve (each other) while simultaneously rewarding St. Lawrence and Delaware Valley with an easier opponent than they deserve

Why not reward Del Val. They deserve to be the number one seed. While the NJAC runner up should be happy to make the playoffs. Im sure ECFC runner up, LL runner up, NEFC runner up, or any other runner up wouldn't complain about making the playoffs and having to play MUC. They would be happy just to play in the NCAAs
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 02, 2010, 01:03:04 PM
Do they deserve it more than MUC? Regions aren't really the brackets remember.... you wouldn't put the #1 and #2 teams in the country in the same region in March Madness, would you?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 01:05:30 PM
Quote from: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 12:43:12 PM
I agree that the NJAC's 3rd or 4th place team could beat 5,6,7. What i am saying is that if your conference has an AQ then i think you should be able to have higher rankings. I mean that team won their conference whether its the ECFC or the NJAC.

Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 02, 2010, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: footballfan75 on November 02, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
I'm just saying why let MUC have a walk through in the first and second round?


Because the whole point of being #1 is that you're rewarded with that walk. The idea isn't to make it tougher for MUC (or any 1-seed), it's to make it easier. St Lawrence would be the worst team by far in the region (sorry LL guys) and therefore, that should the match-up.

How is you scenario fair to anyone? It gives MUC and the NJAC runner-up a tougher opponent than they deserve (each other) while simultaneously rewarding St. Lawrence and Delaware Valley with an easier opponent than they deserve

Why not reward Del Val. They deserve to be the number one seed.


Um...because they AREN'T the number one seed? The number one seed gets the easiest match-up. Period. This is how sports works. You're the top seed, you get the worst possible opponent. MUC will be the top seed. SLU is the worst team in the bracket. They play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 02, 2010, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 01, 2010, 07:46:54 PM
I really only see 1 Pool C from the east if SUNY M goes 10-0.

As always, these are UNRELATED. The identity of the Pool B teams has no effect on the identity of the Pool C teams.

thx pat but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.  the point was that if the scenario / bracket came out with 6 pool a's and 1 pool b (making the assumption that the committee posts SUNY M in the "east" but having caveated that previously saying they could be in the "south" given their LI location, which in that scenario, would obviously enable two Cs in the "east" unless the Committee decided to have 7 or 8 As but that's probably unlikely due to geographic/travel considerations) in the "east bracket", there would only be room for 1 pool c team. 

i get that there will be 3 bs and 6 cs irrespective of "who they are".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 02, 2010, 01:19:56 PM
Quote from: Jonny Podunk on November 01, 2010, 08:27:32 PM
So here are the possible pool C teams with one loss as I can see it (besides the NJAC teams, and if Ithaca won out, they might be ranked around 25-30 at that point.)

Ohio Northern
Bethel
Augustana/North Central loser
Wartburg/Central/Coe (2 of those teams have a good chance of having 1 loss)
Pacific Lutheran
Hardin Simmons (they have a 50% chance of losing one more game)
Wittenburg (if they lose to Wabash)
Thomas Moore (if they lose to Waynesburg which probably won't happen)
Trine (Would they make it if they lose to a 6-4 conference champ Albion?)
Hamden-Sydney (if they lose one of their last two games which they probably wont)
Redlands

Yea those are a lot of good teams in there.  My only hope for Ithaca would be this:
Hardin Simmons loses another game.
Wartburg beats Central, Coe loses to Buena Vista
Wittenberg beats Wabash

Then it looks like there might be a spot or two for an east team and Ithaca would hope they would get picked over an NJAC one loss team.


Damn....Utah is doin' work today!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 06:42:09 PM
Finally, someone else who sees IC could earn an at-large if they win out.  I absolutely agree they could get in @ 8-2 if the cards fall right.  I bring it up in the ERPP and get ripped.  @ 8-2 with their SOS and the strength of the E8 I absolutely think they deserve to get in.  Especially since that means they would have beaten Cortland in Cortland.

+K when I get back to a computer!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 06:54:25 PM
Hampden-Sydney plays the other two top teams in the ODAC back-to-back to close the season and one is its archrival. Certainly possible for H-SC to lose. If H-SC loses to Washington and Lee on Saturday, W&L gets the automatic bid no matter what H-SC does against Randolph-Macon to finish.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 06:42:09 PM
Finally, someone else who sees IC could earn an at-large if they win out.  I absolutely agree they could get in @ 8-2 if the cards fall right.  I bring it up in the ERPP and get ripped.  @ 8-2 with their SOS and the strength of the E8 I absolutely think they deserve to get in.  Especially since that means they would have beaten Cortland in Cortland.

+K when I get back to a computer!

Absolute and deserve are pretty strong terms to use...

Maybe I'm paranoid but considering what is going on around the division III world even at 9-1 I'm worried about SJF not getting a bid.  So how someone can just flat out say they think an 8-2 team absolutely deserves an at large bid is just blind and misguided homerism at its finest...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 02, 2010, 07:04:34 PM
May also be a mute point if Alfred beats IC this weekend too....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2010, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 02, 2010, 07:04:34 PM
May also be a mute point if Alfred beats IC this weekend too....

If the AU team that I saw vs UR shows up, IC will win by double digits...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2010, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 06:54:25 PM
Hampden-Sydney plays the other two top teams in the ODAC back-to-back to close the season and one is its archrival. Certainly possible for H-SC to lose. If H-SC loses to Washington and Lee on Saturday, W&L gets the automatic bid no matter what H-SC does against Randolph-Macon to finish.

Right, so in Ithacas longshot pool C chances, they would need H-S to win both games or lose both games.  Or beat W&L, lose to R-M and then have Randolph-Macon lose to Bridgewater.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 06:42:09 PM
Finally, someone else who sees IC could earn an at-large if they win out.  I absolutely agree they could get in @ 8-2 if the cards fall right.  I bring it up in the ERPP and get ripped.  @ 8-2 with their SOS and the strength of the E8 I absolutely think they deserve to get in.  Especially since that means they would have beaten Cortland in Cortland.

+K when I get back to a computer!

Absolute and deserve are pretty strong terms to use...

Maybe I'm paranoid but considering what is going on around the division III world even at 9-1 I'm worried about SJF not getting a bid.  So how someone can just flat out say they think an 8-2 team absolutely deserves an at large bid is just blind and misguided homerism at its finest...


I absolutely think they deserve to get in if they win their final two games.  It has nothing to do with being an IC fan or not I think a team that would potentially go 8-2 and beat the teams they (potentially) beat deserve to get in.  Winning 80% of your games is no small feat and with their schedule it would be even more impressive. There are plenty of other good teams out that also deserve to get in too though.  So how bout finding something better to do with your time other than nit picking every comment I make and responding with comments like "seriously?!" and "misguided homerism"...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 02, 2010, 09:25:10 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 06:42:09 PM
Finally, someone else who sees IC could earn an at-large if they win out.  I absolutely agree they could get in @ 8-2 if the cards fall right.  I bring it up in the ERPP and get ripped.  @ 8-2 with their SOS and the strength of the E8 I absolutely think they deserve to get in.  Especially since that means they would have beaten Cortland in Cortland.

+K when I get back to a computer!

Absolute and deserve are pretty strong terms to use...

Maybe I'm paranoid but considering what is going on around the division III world even at 9-1 I'm worried about SJF not getting a bid.  So how someone can just flat out say they think an 8-2 team absolutely deserves an at large bid is just blind and misguided homerism at its finest...


I absolutely think they deserve to get in if they win their final two games.  It has nothing to do with being an IC fan or not I think a team that would potentially go 8-2 and beat the teams they (potentially) beat deserve to get in.  Winning 80% of your games is no small feat and with their schedule it would be even more impressive. There are plenty of other good teams out that also deserve to get in too though.  So how bout finding something better to do with your time other than nit picking every comment I make and responding with comments like "seriously?!" and "misguided homerism"...

Going 8-2 is not impressive...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2010, 09:28:01 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2010, 09:25:10 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 02, 2010, 06:42:09 PM
Finally, someone else who sees IC could earn an at-large if they win out.  I absolutely agree they could get in @ 8-2 if the cards fall right.  I bring it up in the ERPP and get ripped.  @ 8-2 with their SOS and the strength of the E8 I absolutely think they deserve to get in.  Especially since that means they would have beaten Cortland in Cortland.

+K when I get back to a computer!

Absolute and deserve are pretty strong terms to use...

Maybe I'm paranoid but considering what is going on around the division III world even at 9-1 I'm worried about SJF not getting a bid.  So how someone can just flat out say they think an 8-2 team absolutely deserves an at large bid is just blind and misguided homerism at its finest...


I absolutely think they deserve to get in if they win their final two games.  It has nothing to do with being an IC fan or not I think a team that would potentially go 8-2 and beat the teams they (potentially) beat deserve to get in.  Winning 80% of your games is no small feat and with their schedule it would be even more impressive. There are plenty of other good teams out that also deserve to get in too though.  So how bout finding something better to do with your time other than nit picking every comment I make and responding with comments like "seriously?!" and "misguided homerism"...

Going 8-2 is not impressive...

It would be impressive and make people think if Ithaca blew out Alfred and Cortland in the last two games. 

Not a great chance that is going to happen but you never know.  Thats all we have as IC fans right now.

(Of course an SJF loss and Ithaca win would seal it for the bombers right?)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 02, 2010, 09:53:40 PM
very interesting discussion about who should get in.  it is hard to choose a 2 loss team at any time for a pool B or C bid with so many 1 loss teams out there.  ithaca's 2 loses do not look that good.  lycoming got trounced by delval, i was at the game and it was not even close.  the other loss is by 24 to st john fisher.  salisbury has 2 loses to #3 wesley by 3 and # 15? hampden sydney by 4 and they are on the fringe of the conversation for a pool B bid.  they would certainly be just as deserving as ithaca.  i dont think either gets in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 07:49:59 AM
Upstate,
I dont know why you are so nervous about a 9-1 Fisher team getting looked over for the playoffs.
Look, at 9-1 even if they dont win the AQ, according to the SOS that Pat and Kevin were talking about Fisher is WELL within the 6 Pool C list.
Im not even going to think about possibilities that would preclude them from getting there.
Just shouldnt happen
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2010, 08:15:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 07:49:59 AM
Upstate,
I dont know why you are so nervous about a 9-1 Fisher team getting looked over for the playoffs.
Look, at 9-1 even if they dont win the AQ, according to the SOS that Pat and Kevin were talking about Fisher is WELL within the 6 Pool C list.
Im not even going to think about possibilities that would preclude them from getting there.
Just shouldnt happen

Like I said, maybe I'm just paranoid...

I'm hoping that things work out this SatErday and SJF get's the AQ...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2010, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

Yeah I'll have to wait until SatErday night to find out as my wife is having a C-Section for our 4th (and final) child in the morning...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:48:07 AM
You need to adjust your priorities man! :P

Good luck!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 03, 2010, 08:50:50 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2010, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

Yeah I'll have to wait until SatErday night to find out as my wife is having a C-Section for our 4th (and final) child in the morning...

Wow...congrats and good luck to you and Mrs. Upstate!  Man...4 sounds like a lot...I have one, and I cannot even imagine having another one right now (though I know that day is coming).  I am keeping my fingers crossed for your wife that this one isn't another ten pound monster!  That, and I don't want Fisher having the inside track for another huge lineman in about 18 years.  Good luck...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:54:14 AM
Im with yanks on this one--congrats to you...
4 kids...
Are you insane?
I have two boys and i blame them directly for my male pattern baldness :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2010, 08:58:24 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 03, 2010, 08:50:50 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2010, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

Yeah I'll have to wait until SatErday night to find out as my wife is having a C-Section for our 4th (and final) child in the morning...

Wow...congrats and good luck to you and Mrs. Upstate!  Man...4 sounds like a lot...I have one, and I cannot even imagine having another one right now (though I know that day is coming).  I am keeping my fingers crossed for your wife that this one isn't another ten pound monster!  That, and I don't want Fisher having the inside track for another huge lineman in about 18 years.  Good luck...

Yes, we are insane but we both wanted 4 from the start.  Just didn't think they'd all be 2 years apart. Yeah the next one is a boy as well, and according to the Docs is going to be around the same size as his brothers (10lbs12oz, 10lbs8oz)...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 03, 2010, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

The Alfred-Utica game has no bearing on the E8 AQ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2010, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 03, 2010, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

The Alfred-Utica game has no bearing on the E8 AQ.

Yup, the only way SJF gets the AQ is if there is a 3 way tie with IC, SJF and AU...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 09:11:34 AM
Oh.
Ok.
sorry
Ok then- GO IC
Here is hoping that AU brings that stellar UofR performance.
Seriously, im still stunned about that one
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 03, 2010, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2010, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 03, 2010, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

The Alfred-Utica game has no bearing on the E8 AQ.

Yup, the only way SJF gets the AQ is if there is a 3 way tie with IC, SJF and AU...

That's not true.  If Alfred loses to Ithaca and Utica it just becomes a two way tie and Fisher gets the AQ via a head to head win over Ithaca. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 09:37:57 AM
See!

I know tings Michael.
Im smaaaaaaaaat.



Just dont take me fishing on lk tahoe!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 03, 2010, 09:38:41 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 03, 2010, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 03, 2010, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 03, 2010, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 08:37:56 AM
Hey- Best case--we get the AQ and dont have to wait a week to find out.
I dont see Fisher losing to SC.
Not at all.
Yes I was wrong about AU, but that game somehow has become an enigma.
So, Fisher beats SC and hopes IC wins...If not..We become fans of the MOOSE?

The Alfred-Utica game has no bearing on the E8 AQ.

Yup, the only way SJF gets the AQ is if there is a 3 way tie with IC, SJF and AU...

That's not true.  If Alfred loses to Ithaca and Utica it just becomes a two way tie and Fisher gets the AQ via a head to head win over Ithaca. 

SJF needs to win SatErday either way, if they do and if IC wins the conference race is over...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSU Pride on November 03, 2010, 10:22:10 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 09:37:57 AM
See!

I know tings Michael.
Im smaaaaaaaaat.



Just dont take me fishing on lk tahoe!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 10:39:16 AM
Sheesh
At least one of you gets my humor :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 03, 2010, 11:00:05 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 10:39:16 AM
Sheesh
At least one of you gets my humor :P

I know it was you Fredo.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 11:04:46 AM
"You do not come to Las Vegas and talk to a man like Mo Greene like that!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 03, 2010, 11:13:38 AM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_LMBIDAkZSaE%2FTGrqc8wfiHI%2FAAAAAAAAAAc%2FNuGorXYEi18%2Fs1600%2Falpacino.jpg&hash=fcfdaff2da2b2bb52d86d078a04e2dc8ce497c8a)

"Senator here is my offer...nothing."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 11:17:39 AM
"The old man had too much wine"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 03, 2010, 11:31:23 AM
Leave the gun.  Bring the cannolis(sp?).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 03, 2010, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 09:37:57 AM
See!

I know tings Michael.
Im smaaaaaaaaat.



Just dont take me fishing on lk tahoe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYabrQrXt4A

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSU Pride on November 03, 2010, 11:56:11 AM
What's the matter with you? Is this what you've become, some Hollywood finnochio that cries like a woman?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 12:00:32 PM
Michael says if you dont take care of this then we are going to have to
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 03, 2010, 12:38:34 PM
No Appollonia, NOOO!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 12:44:21 PM
Fabrizzio?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 03, 2010, 12:55:59 PM
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 01:03:44 PM
Its not personal Sonny,
Its business....


Back to business-IC looks like a different team than the one I saw against Fisher.
Bomber guys-what is the change....How are you going to combat Secky?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 03, 2010, 01:46:49 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 01:03:44 PM
Its not personal Sonny,
Its business....


Back to business-IC looks like a different team than the one I saw against Fisher.
Bomber guys-what is the change....How are you going to combat Secky?

Competition/Location. Period.

Look, Springfield cannot play on the grass here. They lost here in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008 and now this season. Total points scored: 56. They're built to run on turf. Also, Ithaca's straight up loaded at DE and LB this season. (And they will be next season too.) Conti and White are physical corners. With those factors, it's not a surprise Springfield got shut down. They can't take advantage of the pass coverage weaknesses

As far as Utica goes, personally, I saw a team not ready to win a big game like that on the road. At home, you get the crowd going, things start to turn, but on the road, they're not there. They have a good QB, but there aren't a lot of explosive playmakers on that offense

Let's not kid ourselves, this is the same one-dimensional IC offense it's been all season. Against Utica, the backs ran 25 times for 73 yards and against Springfield they had 22 carries for 43. But Utica and Springfield weren't quite good enough offensively to take advantage of a struggling IC offense.

As for beating Secky, it's going to be tough. I think they have to hope to stop Dwyer and put Secky in obvious passing downs. Rochester forced Secky to throw 53 times, and Dwyer only had 47 yards on 12 carries. Secky's shown that he'll turn the ball over (11 INT's). In fact, Alfred is a turnover-prone team (19) compared to Ithaca (10)

Something I just noticed was that Thon has 9 TD's and Alfred's next two most-proficient receivers only have one each. I wonder is Secky gets too locked in on Thon when looking for a big play. Nothing wrong with having a go-to guy, but you can get too focused on him sometimes. 

Honestly though, and don't take this the wrong way, Alfred guys, this will be about how tough Alfred is. Look, they've struggled closing out seasons and against Ithaca in general (and yes, those two are related). The Saxons are coming off a horrid home loss to an inferior opponent. They, as a program, have got to say "We're ready to take that next step." And they have to do it. I normally hate to go all intangible on my analysis, but Alfred's got to, as the kids say, put on their big boy pants. They've been putting together 7, 8 and 9 win seasons for six years, but it seems like they've yet to put it all together. Beating Ithaca and Utica and then winning an NCAA game would go a long way towards doing it. I think they can beat Ithaca and they will beat Utica. But it's time to get it going, Saxons
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedDragonFan on November 03, 2010, 02:15:57 PM

Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 03, 2010, 01:03:44 PM
Its not personal Sonny,
Its business....


Competition/Location. Period.

Look, Springfield cannot play on the grass here. They lost here in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008 and now this season. Total points scored: 56. They're built to run on turf. Also, Ithaca's straight up loaded at DE and LB this season. (And they will be next season too.) Conti and White are physical corners. With those factors, it's not a surprise Springfield got shut down. They can't take advantage of the pass coverage weaknesses

Hyman Roth: What does that tell you?
Michael Corleone: It means they could win.
Title: Regional rankings are out
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 03:21:43 PM
Latest regional rankings posted:
http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/03/ncaas-second-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Regional rankings are out
Post by: labart96 on November 03, 2010, 03:44:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 03:21:43 PM
Latest regional rankings posted:
http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/03/ncaas-second-regional-rankings/

Thx Pat.  No real surprises there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 03:45:52 PM
It's OK to let people follow links and let them see the rest of the site. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 03, 2010, 03:47:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 03:45:52 PM
It's OK to let people follow links and let them see the rest of the site. :)

Duly noted ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 03, 2010, 05:20:40 PM
OK, SJF, you're getting screwed.  Using Primary Criteria (Secondary really not at play here):

W/L percentage is null
SoS is +SJF (0.009)
No head-to-head
Common opponents is +SJF (two bigger victories, one by like 30)
Regionally-Ranked Opponents is +ROW:  SJF loses to #9, beats #8; Rowan loses to #5, beats #4

To me, the SoS difference nullifies the RRO here (negligible differences in both directions).  For a Committee that won't pick 8-2 teams over 9-1 teams unless there are "direct links" between teams in the discussion, how aren't common opponents being considered as very important in this determination -- those are as close to direct links as you can get).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 03, 2010, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 03, 2010, 05:20:40 PM
OK, SJF, you're getting screwed.  Using Primary Criteria (Secondary really not at play here):

W/L percentage is null
SoS is +SJF (0.009)
No head-to-head
Common opponents is +SJF (two bigger victories, one by like 30)
Regionally-Ranked Opponents is +ROW:  SJF loses to #9, beats #8; Rowan loses to #5, beats #4

To me, the SoS difference nullifies the RRO here (negligible differences in both directions).  For a Committee that won't pick 8-2 teams over 9-1 teams unless there are "direct links" between teams in the discussion, how aren't common opponents being considered as very important in this determination -- those are as close to direct links as you can get).


ehhhhh maybe if we are able to win on Saturday that will boost up our strength of schedule a little bit more while Rowan is playing a .500 team and a 1-7 team to round off their schedule....that should make their SoS go down. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 03, 2010, 05:49:46 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 03, 2010, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 03, 2010, 05:20:40 PM
OK, SJF, you're getting screwed.  Using Primary Criteria (Secondary really not at play here):

W/L percentage is null
SoS is +SJF (0.009)
No head-to-head
Common opponents is +SJF (two bigger victories, one by like 30)
Regionally-Ranked Opponents is +ROW:  SJF loses to #9, beats #8; Rowan loses to #5, beats #4

To me, the SoS difference nullifies the RRO here (negligible differences in both directions).  For a Committee that won't pick 8-2 teams over 9-1 teams unless there are "direct links" between teams in the discussion, how aren't common opponents being considered as very important in this determination -- those are as close to direct links as you can get).


ehhhhh maybe if we are able to win on Saturday that will boost up our strength of schedule a little bit more while Rowan is playing a .500 team and a 1-7 team to round off their schedule....that should make their SoS go down. 



Hasn't the NCAA ignored their own criteria in the past though?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 03, 2010, 08:47:31 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 03, 2010, 03:47:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 03:45:52 PM
It's OK to let people follow links and let them see the rest of the site. :)

Duly noted ;)

Plus intralinking (also called deep linking) within a website is a bona fide Search Engine Optimization technique.  As a long as it is done legitimately.  So when you guys link to something cool on D3, it helps Pat just a little bit in the search engines.  Over time it adds up.  But only do it if you have real reason to do it.  

And if you link back to D3 from an outside forum or chat board, that is a backlink.  Very huge... great SEO link juice.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 11:58:20 PM
True.

And linking to ... thong of the day ... not so great for us but since it doesn't happen every day I'll live. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 04, 2010, 12:19:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 11:58:20 PM
True.

And linking to ... thong of the day ... not so great for us but since it doesn't happen every day I'll live. :)

That's what you tell the wife  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 04, 2010, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 11:58:20 PM
True.

And linking to ... thong of the day ... not so great for us but since it doesn't happen every day I'll live. :)

dang...was just gonna start a porn of the day post ...oh well
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 04, 2010, 08:25:21 AM
Its a thirsty thursday.
ill go to my local watering hole and talk some smack about Fisher at happy hour tonight....tho usually it is more fun when there are people around that are somewhat involved....For instance i have run into IC, UC, AU, Port, UR, Hobart, and Wick alums ----likelyhood of running into a SC alum in New Hartford- slim.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 04, 2010, 08:41:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 11:58:20 PM
True.

And linking to ... thong of the day ... not so great for us but since it doesn't happen every day I'll live. :)

KS knew the Guru was looking.   ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 04, 2010, 02:36:34 PM
Quote from: Jonny Offense on November 02, 2010, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 06:54:25 PM
Hampden-Sydney plays the other two top teams in the ODAC back-to-back to close the season and one is its archrival. Certainly possible for H-SC to lose. If H-SC loses to Washington and Lee on Saturday, W&L gets the automatic bid no matter what H-SC does against Randolph-Macon to finish.

Right, so in Ithacas longshot pool C chances, they would need H-S to win both games or lose both games.  Or beat W&L, lose to R-M and then have Randolph-Macon lose to Bridgewater.

Macon is winning out.

Just thought I'd share.

/biased
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 02:40:47 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 04, 2010, 02:36:34 PM
Quote from: Jonny Offense on November 02, 2010, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2010, 06:54:25 PM
Hampden-Sydney plays the other two top teams in the ODAC back-to-back to close the season and one is its archrival. Certainly possible for H-SC to lose. If H-SC loses to Washington and Lee on Saturday, W&L gets the automatic bid no matter what H-SC does against Randolph-Macon to finish.

Right, so in Ithacas longshot pool C chances, they would need H-S to win both games or lose both games.  Or beat W&L, lose to R-M and then have Randolph-Macon lose to Bridgewater.

Macon is winning out.

Just thought I'd share.

/biased

...and they call ME a homer.  HMMMMMM :-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 05:04:17 PM
Special thanks to Keith for his use great use of my quotes to him in this week's ATN column.  Not just for that reason, it's a must-read story.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 04, 2010, 05:17:10 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 05:04:17 PM
Special thanks to Keith for his use great use of my quotes to him in this week's ATN column.  Not just for that reason, it's a must-read story.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/


Well-put--even though it still fails to offer an answer as to why LL, E8 and NJAC teams  struggle to run the table in conference--I really liked your point on the East being punished for not beating MUC
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 04, 2010, 05:25:23 PM
I don't find this argument any different than the one that's been going on in the North Region since the mid-1990's.  The rest of the region (and the OAC too) is assumed to suck because it's always been Mount Union at the top.  At least the east is getting to feel some of Wheaton's pain  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 04, 2010, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 05:04:17 PM
Special thanks to Keith for his use great use of my quotes to him in this week's ATN column.  Not just for that reason, it's a must-read story.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/


A fair and balanced article by Keith. Well done.

Addresses the major issues, and asks the question I've had: Given how the system rewards W-L records, why would Del Val play Wesley (And vice-versa)? If the loser loses another game during the season, it would greatly jeopardize their chances of getting into the playoffs at all.

Is it worth the risk? My instincts and heart say to play the best, just win the game and no problem, but my head would tell me to pass. Which is wrong, but what the system is rewarding.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 04, 2010, 05:25:23 PM
I don't find this argument any different than the one that's been going on in the North Region since the mid-1990's.  The rest of the region (and the OAC too) is assumed to suck because it's always been Mount Union at the top.  At least the east is getting to feel some of Wheaton's pain  ;)

I'm sorry but the North get's too much credit for having MUC in it...

"The North has MUC so that region is tougher", then someone brings up the John Carrol run as evidence.  Even though they probably should have lost to Hobart and Brockport...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 04, 2010, 05:48:11 PM
That Hobart team was pretty good, but they did committ 5 turnovers in that game. 

JCU only had 7 first downs the entire day, 31 yards rushing and 172 yards passing (75 of which came on a single play, i.e., a lucky/broken coverage play).

If Hobart doesn't fumble and give up a 97 yard TD return they'd be up 14-0 early in the first quarter.

That said, sometimes you get bad breaks in big games and never recover.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 05:52:16 PM
And I've blocked the JCU-Brockport game (which was at UR) out of my memory...  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 04, 2010, 05:48:11 PM
That Hobart team was pretty good, but they did committ 5 turnovers in that game. 

JCU only had 7 first downs the entire day, 31 yards rushing and 172 yards passing (75 of which came on a single play, i.e., a lucky/broken coverage play).

If Hobart doesn't fumble and give up a 97 yard TD return they'd be up 14-0 early in the first quarter.

That said, sometimes you get bad breaks in big games and never recover.

Why they had that lineman carry that ball is beyond me.  

Vs Brockport the Eagles gave the ball to a 240lb Full back who was the epitome of the Brockport teams back then (you know, huge juice head w/ no brain) on fourth and inches in OT and he couldn't get it.

Carrol was lucky to say the least, everything broke their way that year in the East bracket.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 04, 2010, 05:55:42 PM
I noticed one typo in ATN....Cortland Statero...

I kind of like it.  Hobartero over RPIero this weekend ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 04, 2010, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 02, 2010, 11:24:11 AM
This is just a gut feeling but I believe there are going to be two 9-1 teams in the east that are going to be very unhappy come selection day...

I think SJF and the NJAC runner-up might get the short end of the stick...

This.

Although I think SJF has a better chance than the NJAC runner-up if they beat Springfield.  The NJAC runner-up needs a few out of region 1-loss teams to lose in the last 2 weeks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2010, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 05:37:45 PM
"The North has MUC so that region is tougher", then someone brings up the John Carrol run as evidence.  Even though they probably should have lost to Hobart and Brockport...

But they didn't, despite being on the road, with a greatly hobbled quarterback. And they were the last seed in the bracket to boot.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 06:46:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2010, 06:39:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 05:37:45 PM
"The North has MUC so that region is tougher", then someone brings up the John Carrol run as evidence.  Even though they probably should have lost to Hobart and Brockport...

But they didn't, despite being on the road, with a greatly hobbled quarterback. And they were the last seed in the bracket to boot.

They beat a Brockport team that was starting their 3rd string QB in Overtime...

Big accomplishment...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2010, 06:52:58 PM
These are your East Region playoff teams. You speak so highly of them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore.  I've said on another board that if they moved in a 2nd place OAC team they could very well win the region.  However, I think if people are going to use this argument to say the east is weak it needs to happen again... So ship another OAC pool C team in.  See what happens
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 07:02:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2010, 06:52:58 PM
These are your East Region playoff teams. You speak so highly of them.

I'd like to see any team win a playoff game w/ their 3rd string QB...

The fact that you give JC credit for having to beat one in OT is just sad...

If the North was so powerful they should have walked all over Brockport and their 3rd string QB...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore. 

Tell that to the Guru...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 04, 2010, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore. 

I agree.  Using an example from 8 years ago doesn't seem relevant in this discussion at all.

BTW - the Hobart PR on that game listed JCU as the "11th ranked" (I assume in the nation, which was well higher than anything Hobart had been at the time) but my guess is that was a Lambert or AFCA poll number if they came in as a 7th seed.

Regardless, it was 8 years ago....(i.e., not relevant)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 04, 2010, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 04, 2010, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore. 

I agree.  Using an example from 8 years ago doesn't seem relevant in this discussion at all.

BTW - the Hobart PR on that game listed JCU as the "11th ranked" (I assume in the nation, which was well higher than anything Hobart had been at the time) but my guess is that was a Lambert or AFCA poll number if they came in as a 7th seed.

Regardless, it was 8 years ago....(i.e., not relevant)


I disagree.  I think Ithaca has the national championship experience to make a run this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 04, 2010, 07:15:17 PM
Quote from: Jonny Offense on November 04, 2010, 07:13:24 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 04, 2010, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore. 

I agree.  Using an example from 8 years ago doesn't seem relevant in this discussion at all.

BTW - the Hobart PR on that game listed JCU as the "11th ranked" (I assume in the nation, which was well higher than anything Hobart had been at the time) but my guess is that was a Lambert or AFCA poll number if they came in as a 7th seed.

Regardless, it was 8 years ago....(i.e., not relevant)


I disagree.  I think Ithaca has the national championship experience to make a run this year.


Utah, I would agree....this years version of the Union Dutchmen has a shot as well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 07:25:59 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore.  I've said on another board that if they moved in a 2nd place OAC team they could very well win the region.  However, I think if people are going to use this argument to say the east is weak it needs to happen again... So ship another OAC pool C team in.  See what happens

When Keith asked me how I would bracket and seed as an alternative to UMU at the top of the East, my suggestion, assuming two Pool C teams in the East, would be the LL champ to the North to face UMU in Round 1 and Case Western Reserve into the lower half of the East.  This would even out the loss columns in all four brackets.




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

The fact that you try to relate losing a QB to losing a RB shows just how far you have your head shoved up your ass...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 07:33:24 PM
And the fact that, you know, they're Mount Union.  And as it turned out, that running back was pretty good.  A third string QB is likely to never play. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 07:36:04 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

The fact that you try to relate losing a QB to losing a RB shows just how far you have your head shoved up your ass...

Wait, I thought that was my problem :-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 04, 2010, 07:52:39 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 04, 2010, 05:55:42 PM
I noticed one typo in ATN....Cortland Statero...

I kind of like it.  Hobartero over RPIero this weekend ;)

Halftime entertainment by Denny Terio
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 04, 2010, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 04, 2010, 07:52:39 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 04, 2010, 05:55:42 PM
I noticed one typo in ATN....Cortland Statero...

I kind of like it.  Hobartero over RPIero this weekend ;)

Halftime entertainment by Denny Terio

In hi-fi stereo... Oof.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 04, 2010, 08:22:57 PM
That Brockport-John Carroll game was one of the best I've ever covered.  Cool environment.  Gritty effort by two injury hobbled teams.  Great defenses.  But, for what it's worth, injury riddled No. 2 John Carroll was not significantly better than injury riddled Brockport State.  The close score and the fact that JCU needed to block a short field goal late to win bear that out.   In my mind the injuries make it hard to extrapolate much about what those teams would've been at full strength in 2002, let alone what their 2010 counterparts would do.  It would be cool to see ONU in the East this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 04, 2010, 11:09:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

The fact that you try to relate losing a QB to losing a RB shows just how far you have your head shoved up your ass...

Real intelligent and classy reply upstate.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 04, 2010, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 11:09:17 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

The fact that you try to relate losing a QB to losing a RB shows just how far you have your head shoved up your ass...

Real intelligent and classy reply upstate.   

Your attempt to downplay  Kmic was retarded...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM
Upstate...dude....you always seem fairly balanced.  What has happened to you?   ;D

I think the last 10/15/20/infinity pages of diatribe are what and where they should be.......blah blah blah on a blah blah blah board.  I love it...and embrace the process.

Until someone/anyone/please anyone from the East makes it to the Stagg.......whether it's through Mount or not....we have NOTHING to talk about.  You can analyze, deliberate, and Frank Rossi it to death (Frank you have the most intelligent blah blah blah I have EVER read...oh wait..you are a lawyer..and no doubt a good one), but to claim discrimination, please just prove you belong there.

The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 

HOWEVER....the regional rankings are the biggest pile of crap I have ever seen.  I actually spent some time looking at opponents records, etc...today (it was a very slow work day).  How anyone could put Wheaton/NCC ahead of Mount, or ANYONE in the West ahead of UWW is the most ridiculous premise ever offered.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 04, 2010, 11:37:06 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PMThe East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 

Fact!

Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PMHOWEVER....the regional rankings are the biggest pile of crap I have ever seen.  I actually spent some time looking at opponents records, etc...today (it was a very slow work day).  How anyone could put Wheaton/NCC ahead of Mount, or ANYONE in the West ahead of UWW is the most ridiculous premise ever offered.

Eh, not so much. The CCIW was 22-2 out of conference this year, that's going to bounce the OOWP part of the SOS even more than OAC's 7-3 would.

I also think MUC and UWW will find their ways to the top, and opposite sides of the bracket, by the time it is released. No matter what the criteria says, I can't see the committee getting in the way of No. 6. They are going to, as they should, let the streak be broken on the field.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 04, 2010, 11:48:41 PM
Upstate- your mindless babble is getting old and tired. I didn't downplay kmic. The point is every team has injuries in the post season. Some win despite them. Kmic didnt appear on the field until the post seaoson . Shows that the best teams have depth . Sorry if that offends you. I agree w skunks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 12:31:04 AM
Regional rankings are by the d3-decided criteria.  Mount Union has one less regional win and a lower SoS than NCC or Wheaton - what is surprising?  (Ultimately, they WILL be a #1 seed.)

UWW will also ultimately be a #1 seed, but with their significantly fewer regional wins I'm actually surprised that they are not #3 (behind Wartburg, as well as St. Thomas).

The regional rankings are not a 'poll' in the usual sense of that term.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 05, 2010, 12:35:04 AM
K-Mack-

I am a CCIW and I agree it is ridiculous to rank Wheaton and NCC ahead of mount. The system is flawed. The cciw played Olivet, Luther, Greenville, Alma, macmurray, etc and went 22-2. Their overall OWP and OOWP is strong because they all went 3-0 or 2-1 early. You can't honestly think that Wheaton played a tougher schedule than UWW can you?? But the SOS will tell you that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 07:23:06 AM
wow - i missed some good chat.
tomorrow holds many answers and hopefully for Fisher it is a win and an AU loss!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM


The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 




Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar.   Were you reading Page 179?


I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 


In regards to the previous posts complaining about JCU barely winning the East back in '02,  JCU would have been a low seed in the North too, yet they went on the road 3 times and won.  If the NCAA would have taken a high seed from the North and than that team barely win the East, then you'd have a point about how strong the East is and how weak the North is.  But when a low seed from one region goes on the road and wins another region, what other conclusion is to be drawn from that?  Upsets happen and a lesser team can win a game they shouldn't if things break right, but 3 of them?

I've seen many times people pointing to SJF's 26-14 loss to Mount as being a testament of how good SJF (and the East) was, even though Kmic ran for 371 yards.  If you are going to discredit JCU's close wins because of extenuating circumstances and selectively pick out certain points to make you argument, but overlook the big picture, then I'll point to Mount hiding Micheli's passing ability as the only reason SJF was within 30 points of Mount.  LK knew the only team that could touch his Raiders was UWW in the Stagg and he wanted a trick up his sleeve and since the East posed no threat to Mount, he could simply run Kmic over and over again.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM


The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 




Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar.   Were you reading Page 179?


I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 


In regards to the previous posts complaining about JCU barely winning the East back in '02,  JCU would have been a low seed in the North too, yet they went on the road 3 times and won.  If the NCAA would have taken a high seed from the North and than that team barely win the East, then you'd have a point about how strong the East is and how weak the North is.  But when a low seed from one region goes on the road and wins another region, what other conclusion is to be drawn from that?  Upsets happen and a lesser team can win a game they shouldn't if things break right, but 3 of them?

I've seen many times people pointing to SJF's 26-14 loss to Mount as being a testament of how good SJF (and the East) was, even though Kmic ran for 371 yards.  If you are going to discredit JCU's close wins because of extenuating circumstances and selectively pick out certain points to make you argument, but overlook the big picture, then I'll point to Mount hiding Micheli's passing ability as the only reason SJF was within 30 points of Mount.  LK knew the only team that could touch his Raiders was UWW in the Stagg and he wanted a trick up his sleeve and since the East posed no threat to Mount, he could simply run Kmic over and over again.   

Coach,
You are usually level headed and even keeled on here so I wont be too abrasive- but that was probably the most arrogant thing i have ever heard you say re UMU.. Even if it were true- and I doubt that highly- it was 4 years ago- why the hell come back and post crap like that.
Honestly....
Enjoy your team. they are with out a doubt the best ive seen, but i will end my compliments there and hope that there is at least one UMU fan that thinks that your post was too much
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 09:09:27 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM


The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 




Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar.   Were you reading Page 179?


I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 

In regards to the previous posts complaining about JCU barely winning the East back in '02,  JCU would have been a low seed in the North too, yet they went on the road 3 times and won.  If the NCAA would have taken a high seed from the North and than that team barely win the East, then you'd have a point about how strong the East is and how weak the North is.  But when a low seed from one region goes on the road and wins another region, what other conclusion is to be drawn from that?  Upsets happen and a lesser team can win a game they shouldn't if things break right, but 3 of them?

I've seen many times people pointing to SJF's 26-14 loss to Mount as being a testament of how good SJF (and the East) was, even though Kmic ran for 371 yards.  If you are going to discredit JCU's close wins because of extenuating circumstances and selectively pick out certain points to make you argument, but overlook the big picture, then I'll point to Mount hiding Micheli's passing ability as the only reason SJF was within 30 points of Mount.  LK knew the only team that could touch his Raiders was UWW in the Stagg and he wanted a trick up his sleeve and since the East posed no threat to Mount, he could simply run Kmic over and over again.   


We have several teams on Wheaton's level in the East, my friend.  Really good, tough, consistent teams and programs that can go deep into the playoffs until they run into MUC...just like Wheaton.  Wheaton is a good team/program...no doubt.  But what makes them any more special then any of the really good teams from the East the previous 5-6 years?  What have they done to make any of us say, "Wow...that is a hell of a program, I hope we don't run into them in the playoffs."  Nothing...

Again...the North Region gets a pass simply because MUC "lives" there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 09:11:59 AM
If JCU didn't play Mount Union in 2002, wouldn't they have been a high seed in the north?  Or exported to the east as the #1 seed?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 05, 2010, 09:55:19 AM
I am a Wheaton guy and I don't think CCIW teams are any better/worse than equally ranked East/West, etc. We do have more data on Wheaton than  some of the east programs for what its worth. Wheaton played Bethel in the regular season each of the past 2 years and won both times (both in close games). I believe Augie played Union or Catholic a few years back in a home and home series and split if memory serves. There are lots of examples of CCIW teams playing intra-regional games (Wheaton v UWP, NCC vs UWEC, Augie v Central, etc)

I will also say, 1 year after JCU was shipped east, Baldwin Wallace from the OAC was a highly regarded pool C team and was paired in the North in round 2 against Wheaton. Of course we heard all week that week about how BW was going to run through all teams until they faced Mount again. They came to Wheaton with one of the better qb's in the OAC (Dan Larlham) and lost 16-12. So the only difference I can see is that Wheaton beat a very good OAC #2 team in the playoffs a year after JCU won the east. That game, as much as any other, gave the perception that Wheaton was "competitive" oustide of Mt Union. I don't agree with the perception and I think the top East teams can compete with other teams outside the "top 2" very well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 10:17:21 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM


The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 




Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar.   Were you reading Page 179?


I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 


In regards to the previous posts complaining about JCU barely winning the East back in '02,  JCU would have been a low seed in the North too, yet they went on the road 3 times and won.  If the NCAA would have taken a high seed from the North and than that team barely win the East, then you'd have a point about how strong the East is and how weak the North is.  But when a low seed from one region goes on the road and wins another region, what other conclusion is to be drawn from that?  Upsets happen and a lesser team can win a game they shouldn't if things break right, but 3 of them?

I've seen many times people pointing to SJF's 26-14 loss to Mount as being a testament of how good SJF (and the East) was, even though Kmic ran for 371 yards.  If you are going to discredit JCU's close wins because of extenuating circumstances and selectively pick out certain points to make you argument, but overlook the big picture, then I'll point to Mount hiding Micheli's passing ability as the only reason SJF was within 30 points of Mount.  LK knew the only team that could touch his Raiders was UWW in the Stagg and he wanted a trick up his sleeve and since the East posed no threat to Mount, he could simply run Kmic over and over again.   


Mount Union's 2006 season

Week #1 Win 64-7
Week #2  Win 71-14
Week #3 Win 62-0
Week #4 Win 58-0
Week #5 Win 49-7
Week # 6 Win 65-9
Week # 7 Win 14-0
Week #8 Win 38-12
Week #9 Win 31-14
Week # 10 Win 45-17
Week #11 (Playoffs) Win 49-0
Week #12 (Playoffs) Win 35-3
Week #13 (Playoffs) Win 17-14
Week #14 (Playoffs) Win 26-14
Week #15 (Championship) Win 35-16

What can we take away from that?  If Mount Union had the opportunity to absolutely blow away a team, even by 49 in the playoffs, they freaking did.  To suggest they were "hiding" their passing game is absurd.  They didn't hide their passing game throughout the regular season.  They didn't hide their passing game in the freaking playoffs.  Why would they decide all of a sudden oh hey let's hide it against this one team.  Oh by the way in the process of this "hiding" let's put ourself one or two plays away from just flat out losing the game...that would be really smart.  In the press release after the coach would just say "oh we could have beaten them by 30 like we were doing to every other team that year without a problem, but you see we wanted to hide an element to our game and whoops one or two bad bounces later we lost"

Fisher couldn't stop Kmic and the coach ran with it.  He wasn't hiding sh*t.  We had probably the best cornerback in the country that year and a pretty damn fine secondary.  For such high road fans that argument by your team that I have heard on and off throughout the years is one of the most ridiculous ones I have ever heard.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 10:18:40 AM
Oh and by the way...you guys all say this is the year Mount Union is most vulnerable yet AGAIN no team from the North has beaten them...they remain undefeated.  So what exactly is that saying about your region again I forget? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 10:23:14 AM
thanks boob,
I thought i was the only one that took offense to that piece of crap post
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:29:21 AM
I also don't see what you SJF guys are taking such offense to. It's not like you *almost* beat MUC or anything. I don't care what the score was at any point in the game; if your favorite NFL team lost by 12, you would never say we *almost* won.

I see what the North guys see in the East: a bunch of conferences in total chaos with no clear dominant team in any of them.... which could point to a lot of teams being good, but then look what happens when they play Mount: the same thing that happens against all the lower seeded teams.


Yanks: Show me a team that, like Wheaton, has won EVERY GAME except the ones they play against MUC. We don't have any.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 05, 2010, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 10:17:21 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM


The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 




Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar.   Were you reading Page 179?


I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 


In regards to the previous posts complaining about JCU barely winning the East back in '02,  JCU would have been a low seed in the North too, yet they went on the road 3 times and won.  If the NCAA would have taken a high seed from the North and than that team barely win the East, then you'd have a point about how strong the East is and how weak the North is.  But when a low seed from one region goes on the road and wins another region, what other conclusion is to be drawn from that?  Upsets happen and a lesser team can win a game they shouldn't if things break right, but 3 of them?

I've seen many times people pointing to SJF's 26-14 loss to Mount as being a testament of how good SJF (and the East) was, even though Kmic ran for 371 yards.  If you are going to discredit JCU's close wins because of extenuating circumstances and selectively pick out certain points to make you argument, but overlook the big picture, then I'll point to Mount hiding Micheli's passing ability as the only reason SJF was within 30 points of Mount.  LK knew the only team that could touch his Raiders was UWW in the Stagg and he wanted a trick up his sleeve and since the East posed no threat to Mount, he could simply run Kmic over and over again.   


Mount Union's 2006 season

Week #1 Win 64-7
Week #2  Win 71-14
Week #3 Win 62-0
Week #4 Win 58-0
Week #5 Win 49-7
Week # 6 Win 65-9
Week # 7 Win 14-0
Week #8 Win 38-12
Week #9 Win 31-14
Week # 10 Win 45-17
Week #11 (Playoffs) Win 49-0
Week #12 (Playoffs) Win 35-3
Week #13 (Playoffs) Win 17-14
Week #14 (Playoffs) Win 26-14
Week #15 (Championship) Win 35-16

What can we take away from that?  If Mount Union had the opportunity to absolutely blow away a team, even by 49 in the playoffs, they freaking did.  To suggest they were "hiding" their passing game is absurd.  They didn't hide their passing game throughout the regular season.  They didn't hide their passing game in the freaking playoffs.  Why would they decide all of a sudden oh hey let's hide it against this one team.  Oh by the way in the process of this "hiding" let's put ourself one or two plays away from just flat out losing the game...that would be really smart.  In the press release after the coach would just say "oh we could have beaten them by 30 like we were doing to every other team that year without a problem, but you see we wanted to hide an element to our game and whoops one or two bad bounces later we lost"

Fisher couldn't stop Kmic and the coach ran with it.  He wasn't hiding sh*t.  We had probably the best cornerback in the country that year and a pretty damn fine secondary.  For such high road fans that argument by your team that I have heard on and off throughout the years is one of the most ridiculous ones I have ever heard.

Booby DOES have game yo! Nailed it, +K. Oh, and if the MUC coach thought that UWW was the only team that could touch him, then what about the 17-14 Capital game? Did he not think they could beat him either? Did he hide his passing game for that game too? That would make him an awful coach, and well, we certainly know that's not the case.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:34:40 AM
Quote from: USee on November 05, 2010, 09:55:19 AM
I am a Wheaton guy and I don't think CCIW teams are any better/worse than equally ranked East/West, etc. We do have more data on Wheaton than  some of the east programs for what its worth. Wheaton played Bethel in the regular season each of the past 2 years and won both times (both in close games). I believe Augie played Union or Catholic a few years back in a home and home series and split if memory serves. There are lots of examples of CCIW teams playing intra-regional games (Wheaton v UWP, NCC vs UWEC, Augie v Central, etc)

I will also say, 1 year after JCU was shipped east, Baldwin Wallace from the OAC was a highly regarded pool C team and was paired in the North in round 2 against Wheaton. Of course we heard all week that week about how BW was going to run through all teams until they faced Mount again. They came to Wheaton with one of the better qb's in the OAC (Dan Larlham) and lost 16-12. So the only difference I can see is that Wheaton beat a very good OAC #2 team in the playoffs a year after JCU won the east. That game, as much as any other, gave the perception that Wheaton was "competitive" oustide of Mt Union. I don't agree with the perception and I think the top East teams can compete with other teams outside the "top 2" very well.

informative, +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:37:13 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:29:21 AM
I also don't see what you SJF guys are taking such offense to. It's not like you *almost* beat MUC or anything. I don't care what the score was at any point in the game; if your favorite NFL team lost by 12, you would never say we *almost* won.

I see what the North guys see in the East: a bunch of conferences in total chaos with no clear dominant team in any of them.... which could point to a lot of teams being good, but then look what happens when they play Mount: the same thing that happens against all the lower seeded teams.


Yanks: Show me a team that, like Wheaton, has won EVERY GAME except the ones they play against MUC. We don't have any.

Fisher only has one loss in the playoffs ever to a team not named MUC.  Wheaton is no different then them.  I mean...what are we talking about here?  Wheaton is a very good program...but what the hell have they done that makes me even think for a second to put them either at the level of MUC/UWW, or just a notch below them?  They had one semi-final run in 2008 (lost to MUC), lost in the second round to MUC in 2006, and then didn't even make the playoffs in 2009, 2007, or 2005.  As unlikely as it may seem now, what happens if they lose a close one to North Central and then get upset by Millikin the following week and miss the playoffs (they aren't getting in at 8-2 on a two game losing streak)?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
So I don't know much about Wheaton, and using it as a specific example is probably, as USee said, dumb.

Here's my real point: Yes Fisher had a great run in the playoffs. They also haven't made the playoffs since 2007. That's not so dominant to me. I think you (us) E8 guys think our conference is a LOT stronger than it really is. It seems more and more like we're just on a merry-go-round of who can choke against the same team every year, and then get buried in the playoffs. But what conference is a better representation of the East than the E8?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
So I don't know much about Wheaton, and using it as a specific example is probably, as USee said, dumb.

Here's my real point: Yes Fisher had a great run in the playoffs. They also haven't made the playoffs since 2007. That's not so dominant to me. I think you (us) E8 guys think our conference is a LOT stronger than it really is. It seems more and more like we're just on a merry-go-round of who can choke against the same team every year, and then get buried in the playoffs. But what conference is a better representation of the East than the E8?

You aren't wrong in your assessment on some of the inconsistency of the East.  I just don't think parity is a reason to degrade the East, and allow the North Region teams (absent of MUC) to get a pass when some of them avoid/don't play MUC in the regular season and then turn around and tell us how strong their teams are and that they only lose to MUC.

I mentioned this once before, and it still stands.  The North Region teams combined have as many wins over the East Region teams over the past 11 years...one each...with many, many more chances.  Some of the teams are terrible and have no chance to take them down...but they still get so many more opportunities to do so as a Region, with basically zero success.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:29:21 AM
I also don't see what you SJF guys are taking such offense to. It's not like you *almost* beat MUC or anything. I don't care what the score was at any point in the game; if your favorite NFL team lost by 12, you would never say we *almost* won.

I see what the North guys see in the East: a bunch of conferences in total chaos with no clear dominant team in any of them.... which could point to a lot of teams being good, but then look what happens when they play Mount: the same thing that happens against all the lower seeded teams.


Yanks: Show me a team that, like Wheaton, has won EVERY GAME except the ones they play against MUC. We don't have any.

Well Curry used to be that team didn't they?  What if MUC was in the east back then.  Curry would have been the 8 seed every year and would have lost to MUC every year.  The only difference is that the east has different 1 seeds every year.  MUC is the number #1 seed every year since 199?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 10:56:06 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:29:21 AM
I also don't see what you SJF guys are taking such offense to. It's not like you *almost* beat MUC or anything. I don't care what the score was at any point in the game; if your favorite NFL team lost by 12, you would never say we *almost* won.

I see what the North guys see in the East: a bunch of conferences in total chaos with no clear dominant team in any of them.... which could point to a lot of teams being good, but then look what happens when they play Mount: the same thing that happens against all the lower seeded teams.


Yanks: Show me a team that, like Wheaton, has won EVERY GAME except the ones they play against MUC. We don't have any.

Well Max since you weren't actually at the game I will just tell you it was well within reach.  Fisher had a botched snap going over the Punter's head into the endzone for a safety and then a blocked 30 yard fieldgoal in the 4th quarter that still would have brought Mount Union's lead to I think two in the 4th quarter.  They finally "put us away" with about 5 minutes to go in the 4th when they scored their last touchdown to take the lead to 12.  Besides I'm not saying Fisher had the game and choked, letting Mount Union win.  I am saying their idiotic statement that they were hiding something because they knew an Eastern team couldn't touch them is just that...idiotic.  You don't let a team stay within one score of you in the final minutes of a game when you can so easily distance yourself from them as some fans are claiming...one bad bounce of the football and then you lose.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 10:58:35 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 10:56:06 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:29:21 AM
I also don't see what you SJF guys are taking such offense to. It's not like you *almost* beat MUC or anything. I don't care what the score was at any point in the game; if your favorite NFL team lost by 12, you would never say we *almost* won.

I see what the North guys see in the East: a bunch of conferences in total chaos with no clear dominant team in any of them.... which could point to a lot of teams being good, but then look what happens when they play Mount: the same thing that happens against all the lower seeded teams.


Yanks: Show me a team that, like Wheaton, has won EVERY GAME except the ones they play against MUC. We don't have any.

Well Max since you weren't actually at the game I will just tell you it was well within reach.  Fisher had a botched snap going over the Punter's head into the endzone for a safety and then a blocked 30 yard fieldgoal in the 4th quarter that still would have brought Mount Union's lead to I think two in the 4th quarter.  They finally "put us away" with about 5 minutes to go in the 4th when they scored their last touchdown to take the lead to 12.  Besides I'm not saying Fisher had the game and choked, letting Mount Union win.  I am saying their idiotic statement that they were hiding something because they knew an Eastern team couldn't touch them is just that...idiotic.  You don't let a team stay within one score of you in the final minutes of a game when you can so easily distance yourself from them as some fans are claiming...one bad bounce of the football and then you lose.  

That isn't what I heard.  I heard MUC wanted to save thier passing attack for the next game.  That game would have been 77-3 if MUC wanted to throw the ball.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:59:44 AM
I will agree that that passing attack idea is kind of silly.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 05, 2010, 10:59:50 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
So I don't know much about Wheaton, and using it as a specific example is probably, as USee said, dumb.

Here's my real point: Yes Fisher had a great run in the playoffs. They also haven't made the playoffs since 2007. That's not so dominant to me. I think you (us) E8 guys think our conference is a LOT stronger than it really is. It seems more and more like we're just on a merry-go-round of who can choke against the same team every year, and then get buried in the playoffs. But what conference is a better representation of the East than the E8?

You aren't wrong in your assessment on some of the inconsistency of the East.  I just don't think parity is a reason to degrade the East, and allow the North Region teams (absent of MUC) to get a pass when some of them avoid/don't play MUC in the regular season and then turn around and tell us how strong their teams are and that they only lose to MUC.

I mentioned this once before, and it still stands.  The North Region teams combined have as many wins over the East Region teams over the past 11 years...one each...with many, many more chances.  Some of the teams are terrible and have no chance to take them down...but they still get so many more opportunities to do so as a Region, with basically zero success.

The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 5 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24
2009  d. W&J55-0, Montclair 62-14, Albright 55-3, Wesley 24-7

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland). So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 11:03:31 AM
Quote from: Doid23 on November 05, 2010, 10:59:50 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:51:50 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:41:43 AM
So I don't know much about Wheaton, and using it as a specific example is probably, as USee said, dumb.

Here's my real point: Yes Fisher had a great run in the playoffs. They also haven't made the playoffs since 2007. That's not so dominant to me. I think you (us) E8 guys think our conference is a LOT stronger than it really is. It seems more and more like we're just on a merry-go-round of who can choke against the same team every year, and then get buried in the playoffs. But what conference is a better representation of the East than the E8?

You aren't wrong in your assessment on some of the inconsistency of the East.  I just don't think parity is a reason to degrade the East, and allow the North Region teams (absent of MUC) to get a pass when some of them avoid/don't play MUC in the regular season and then turn around and tell us how strong their teams are and that they only lose to MUC.

I mentioned this once before, and it still stands.  The North Region teams combined have as many wins over the East Region teams over the past 11 years...one each...with many, many more chances.  Some of the teams are terrible and have no chance to take them down...but they still get so many more opportunities to do so as a Region, with basically zero success.

The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 5 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24
2009  d. W&J55-0, Montclair 62-14, Albright 55-3, Wesley 24-7

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland). So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.


Completely agree...Pat won't...but I completely agree...

And unless someone pulls off an epic miracle, the East Region teams won't get a chance to match up against a different North Region team in the playoffs as they keep sending MUC our way.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:15:32 AM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

Kmic was special.  Like trying to tackle a pinball... third string my Aunt Fanny.  Mount's best RB (Kmic) started on the bench behind older players.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 11:17:58 AM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:15:32 AM
Quote from: USee on November 04, 2010, 07:20:21 PM
Well, as has been mentioned, if you want the perception (valid or not) of JCU's east winning ways to go away, you need to replace them with a team that wins. Before JCU won the east the majority perception of the east was that it was strong. That was on the back of Rowan's victory at Mt Union back in 1999. So get another win over another region's top seed and you will get your perception changed. Heck, have one of your teams shipped out to another region and make a run and it will change. Mt Union won a national title with a freshman 3rd string RB named Nate Kmic if I recall. But that's just a lowly running back.

Kmic was special.  Like trying to tackle a pinball... third string my Aunt Fanny.

Gotta love it when the all-time leading rusher in Division III history (who just happens to own the single season rushing record as well) gets used as an epic story of coming out of nowhere to lead his team to victory, like MUC didn't realize what they had with him until injuries "forced" their hand to use him...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Or maybe that was an excuse to why the game was as close as it was, and why MUC didn't bury SJF like they thought they would?  Either way, you don't pretty much eliminate or pull back the reigns on 50% of your offense when you are that deep into the playoffs.  Not when it's a one score game in the 4th.

We aren't talking about a mop up game against a weaker conference team in Week #3 of the season here...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time.  

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:35:44 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

YES?  Some of both I think.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time.  

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.

JT...and I agree.  He saw early that he didn't need to pass, and he chose not to do so. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.

JT...and I agree.  He saw early that he didn't need to pass, and he chose not to do so. 

That's not pulling back the reigns...that is going with what works until someone stops you.  So which one is it?  Can't have it both ways...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 11:39:33 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

I might be more inclined to agree with you if Mount Union didn't make a regular habit of absolutely destroying teams in the playoffs as well. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 11:41:14 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore.  

Tell that to the Guru...

I was responding to someone who had already brought it up, but with incomplete information. Namely, you, Upstate. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 11:42:41 AM
But hey you Mount Union posters have it made with that kind of logic.  If we blow you out in the playoffs (which happens a lot) well that is just Mount Union and we are dominant.  If it is a close game, well we were just playing conservative and the only thing that matters is advancing.  That's infallible right there.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:45:29 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time. 

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.

JT...and I agree.  He saw early that he didn't need to pass, and he chose not to do so. 

That's not pulling back the reigns...that is going with what works until someone stops you.  So which one is it?  Can't have it both ways...

But I WANT it both ways!   ;D  I am sure if SJF had been able to stop Kmic, Mount would have thrown the ball to win the game if that's what was needed.  LK was happy that they didnt need to do so, which even more emphasized Mount's perceived lack of a passing game. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 11:42:41 AM
But hey you Mount Union posters have it made with that kind of logic.  If we blow you out in the playoffs (which happens a lot) well that is just Mount Union and we are dominant.  If it is a close game, well we were just playing conservative and the only thing that matters is advancing.  That's infallible right there.  

Works for me..... ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 04, 2010, 11:37:06 PM
Eh, not so much. The CCIW was 22-2 out of conference this year, that's going to bounce the OOWP part of the SOS even more than OAC's 7-3 would.

I also think MUC and UWW will find their ways to the top, and opposite sides of the bracket, by the time it is released. No matter what the criteria says, I can't see the committee getting in the way of No. 6. They are going to, as they should, let the streak be broken on the field.

Well, it won't be done through some bounce in SoS.  There's no way UMU catches Wheaton, for instance.  Either Wheaton needs to lose, or the Committee is going to propel my argument of trying to include some portion of subjective polling to choose teams in future years -- the SoS figures are not telling true stories about team strength in many cases (such as these).  Again, just because UMU plays in a 10-team conference, it's going to be locked very near 0.500 in both OWP and OOWP just based on pure statistics, every year.  Nine of the the teams' games are against each other, and to reiterate my old statement, "Someone's gotta lose those games."  So, the CCIW gets benefitted here for having less members?  Who did these teams play?  That's why these SoS numbers are getting pretty useless as we get to see their real effects more and more.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 11:52:54 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 11:42:41 AM
But hey you Mount Union posters have it made with that kind of logic.  If we blow you out in the playoffs (which happens a lot) well that is just Mount Union and we are dominant.  If it is a close game, well we were just playing conservative and the only thing that matters is advancing.  That's infallible right there.  

Works for me..... ;)

Skunks you also must admit that a lot of teams do that, and it doesn't necessarily mean MUC would have won by more if they passed the ball.

Great teams add some new things in each week or every other week just to keep fresh and try to do something that the other team might not be able to stop.  That's why you watch film in the first place.  Just think though, what if on 2 of Kmic's runs, MUC decided to pass it and didn't score?  Maybe they would have lost the game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 11:55:20 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM
Until someone/anyone/please anyone from the East makes it to the Stagg.......whether it's through Mount or not....we have NOTHING to talk about.  You can analyze, deliberate, and Frank Rossi it to death (Frank you have the most intelligent blah blah blah I have EVER read...oh wait..you are a lawyer..and no doubt a good one), but to claim discrimination, please just prove you belong there.

Thanks, skunks... I think ???

+k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM
Until someone/anyone/please anyone from the East makes it to the Stagg.......whether it's through Mount or not....we have NOTHING to talk about.  You can analyze, deliberate, and Frank Rossi it to death (Frank you have the most intelligent blah blah blah I have EVER read...oh wait..you are a lawyer..and no doubt a good one), but to claim discrimination, please just prove you belong there.


I missed this...this comment is ridiculous...if MUC is always in the East, then there is pretty close to a zero chance that an Eastern Region team makes the Stagg Bowl...this pretty much goes for every other team in Division III as well considering it has been MUC and UWW in the finals for the past 5 years...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 

What was Wheaton's record in the playoffs last year, out of curiosity?  Consistency would mean getting there, too, no?  So, none of us have stones to throw here, since I'd rather go 0-1 every year in the playoffs than miss them 2 out of the last 3 years.  That comparison's weight is very light, HS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.

Yanks, as I've pointed out to Frank numerous times, we can't even navigate our own conferences unbeaten on a semi-regular basis, and even when we do, we often lose to mediocre OOC teams, so the idea that we're consistently at the level of teams like Wheaton is off base to me.

Seriously, the likely E8 qualifier lost to Rochester. It's entirely possible the E8 and LL Pool A teams have something like 7-8 losses between them. Yeah, maybe Delaware Valley got the shaft this season, but you know what? If they're on MUC's level, it's not like they won't get their shot.  



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.

Yanks, as I've pointed out to Frank numerous times, we can't even navigate our own conferences unbeaten on a semi-regular basis, and even when we do, we often lose to mediocre OOC teams, so the idea that we're consistently at the level of teams like Wheaton is off base to me.

Seriously, the likely E8 qualifier lost to Rochester. It's entirely possible the E8 and LL Pool A teams have something like 7-8 losses between them. Yeah, maybe Delaware Valley got the shaft this season, but you know what? If they're on MUC's level, it's not like they won't get their shot.  




You aren't wrong Bombers...I just think Wheaton is a terrible example for his arguement...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.

Yanks, as I've pointed out to Frank numerous times, we can't even navigate our own conferences unbeaten on a semi-regular basis, and even when we do, we often lose to mediocre OOC teams, so the idea that we're consistently at the level of teams like Wheaton is off base to me.

Seriously, the likely E8 qualifier lost to Rochester. It's entirely possible the E8 and LL Pool A teams have something like 7-8 losses between them. Yeah, maybe Delaware Valley got the shaft this season, but you know what? If they're on MUC's level, it's not like they won't get their shot. 





That is a great point.  An added disrespect card can help a team in these playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.

Yanks, as I've pointed out to Frank numerous times, we can't even navigate our own conferences unbeaten on a semi-regular basis, and even when we do, we often lose to mediocre OOC teams, so the idea that we're consistently at the level of teams like Wheaton is off base to me.

Seriously, the likely E8 qualifier lost to Rochester. It's entirely possible the E8 and LL Pool A teams have something like 7-8 losses between them. Yeah, maybe Delaware Valley got the shaft this season, but you know what? If they're on MUC's level, it's not like they won't get their shot.  

So, as I said to Keith, ship the LL qualifier to UMU in Round 1.  That will even out the brackets in the loss column very well.  SLU is 488 miles away from UMU, so it would work.  Send Case Western Reserve into the East -- you know, the team "lowly" Rochester almost beat in Week 2 when it had its All-Everything RB still? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.

Yanks, as I've pointed out to Frank numerous times, we can't even navigate our own conferences unbeaten on a semi-regular basis, and even when we do, we often lose to mediocre OOC teams, so the idea that we're consistently at the level of teams like Wheaton is off base to me.

Seriously, the likely E8 qualifier lost to Rochester. It's entirely possible the E8 and LL Pool A teams have something like 7-8 losses between them. Yeah, maybe Delaware Valley got the shaft this season, but you know what? If they're on MUC's level, it's not like they won't get their shot. 





That is a great point.  An added disrespect card can help a team in these playoffs.

DelVal has earned another week of practice and another quality game in the playoffs.  It DOES matter longterm for these teams.  You're getting into a circular argument that you might want to be careful of -- you ask "WHY CAN'T THE EAST GET A STRONG TEAM ON PAPER ANYMORE?" and then claim that it doesn't matter what round the East's leader plays UMU?  It DOES matter.  Keith and Pat talk about the 15 extra weeks of practice and quality opponents UMU and UW-W have under their belt for their seniors?  How can any East team get to that point under current circumstances?  Like I said, the NCAA can't claim this is a national system until it aids teams in breaking down the regional structure THROUGHOUT the season by subsidizing 50 out-of-region games to aid in comparisons.  At a cost of $250,000 (which the NCAA would partially recoup in a gate recoupment agreement with the teams involved), this could be done and help create matchups we've never seen before.  This is an instance where the NCAA needs to put its money where its mouth is, or it needs to stop trying to break down the regional walls until the Semifinals. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 12:26:48 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
I actually like the Wheaton example. He's right, there's no team in the East that's come even close to dominating everyone else. When you look at it that way, why shouldn't the NCAA bring Mount Union over? Basically, what they are saying is: You guys have shown us nothing that says that Mount wouldn't destroy you in the semi's, so we'll move them up a round and make sure two better teams don't get eliminated earlier so that someone like Albright or SJF can foregone conclusion-ly lose in a more important game. Any of that make sense?

I hear you...but HScoach said "Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy."  What unworldly level have they reached that is any different then the East teams?  Going as far as they can in the playoffs until they meet MUC?  We pretty much all do that...except UWW.

Yanks, as I've pointed out to Frank numerous times, we can't even navigate our own conferences unbeaten on a semi-regular basis, and even when we do, we often lose to mediocre OOC teams, so the idea that we're consistently at the level of teams like Wheaton is off base to me.

Seriously, the likely E8 qualifier lost to Rochester. It's entirely possible the E8 and LL Pool A teams have something like 7-8 losses between them. Yeah, maybe Delaware Valley got the shaft this season, but you know what? If they're on MUC's level, it's not like they won't get their shot. 





That is a great point.  An added disrespect card can help a team in these playoffs.

DelVal has earned another week of practice and another quality game in the playoffs.  It DOES matter longterm for these teams.  You're getting into a circular argument that you might want to be careful of -- you ask "WHY CAN'T THE EAST GET A STRONG TEAM ON PAPER ANYMORE?" and then claim that it doesn't matter what round the East's leader plays UMU?  It DOES matter.  Keith and Pat talk about the 15 extra weeks of practice and quality opponents UMU and UW-W have under their belt for their seniors?  How can any East team get to that point under current circumstances?  Like I said, the NCAA can't claim this is a national system until it aids teams in breaking down the regional structure THROUGHOUT the season by subsidizing 50 out-of-region games to aid in comparisons.  At a cost of $250,000 (which the NCAA would partially recoup in a gate recoupment agreement with the teams involved), this could be done and help create matchups we've never seen before.  This is an instance where the NCAA needs to put its money where its mouth is, or it needs to stop trying to break down the regional walls until the Semifinals. 

It doesn't matter that much.  MUC and UWW would be having 15 weeks of practice no matter who they played, and thats a fact (unless they played each other in the first round, if they play in the semi-finals, then yea, its 14 extra weeks of practice, and we all get to see some more 55-3 stagg bowls)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 12:26:48 PM
It doesn't matter that much.  MUC and UWW would be having 15 weeks of practice no matter who they played, and thats a fact (unless they played each other in the first round, if they play in the semi-finals, then yea, its 14 extra weeks of practice, and we all get to see some more 55-3 stagg bowls)

If in a couple years, if DelVal's seniors have 12 extra weeks, it doesn't give them a chance?  A team eventually taking down the Mount isn't going to just magically appear, is it?  Let's ask the North guys -- HEY NORTH GUYS, WHEN IS YOUR MAGIC UNICORN APPEARING?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 12:26:48 PM
It doesn't matter that much.  MUC and UWW would be having 15 weeks of practice no matter who they played, and thats a fact (unless they played each other in the first round, if they play in the semi-finals, then yea, its 14 extra weeks of practice, and we all get to see some more 55-3 stagg bowls)

If in a couple years, if DelVal's seniors have 12 extra weeks, it doesn't give them a chance?  A team eventually taking down the Mount isn't going to just magically appear, is it?  Let's ask the North guys -- HEY NORTH GUYS, WHEN IS YOUR MAGIC UNICORN APPEARING?

Sure it gives them a chance.  But so does lifting 2 extra hours a week, or doing 3 extra sprints a day in the summer, or an extra phone call by an assistant coach to that kid he saw in the paper that might go to your school instead of your rival's school, etc, etc.

Just pointing out that these things matter, but not that much in the long run. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 12:34:16 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 04, 2010, 11:32:35 PM


The East should hope that Mount is the #1 seed this year, because if there EVER was a year that they MAY be vulnerable, this is the year. 




Hmmm, that sentiment sounds familiar.   Were you reading Page 179?


I find all the pissing & moaning in the East to be rather humorous.  The North dealt with for years.  Wheaton is 9-0 in the playoffs against anyone not named Mount Union.  0-6 against Mount.  Until a consistent East team reaches the level of Wheaton, I have no sympathy. 


In regards to the previous posts complaining about JCU barely winning the East back in '02,  JCU would have been a low seed in the North too, yet they went on the road 3 times and won.  If the NCAA would have taken a high seed from the North and than that team barely win the East, then you'd have a point about how strong the East is and how weak the North is.  But when a low seed from one region goes on the road and wins another region, what other conclusion is to be drawn from that?  Upsets happen and a lesser team can win a game they shouldn't if things break right, but 3 of them?

I've seen many times people pointing to SJF's 26-14 loss to Mount as being a testament of how good SJF (and the East) was, even though Kmic ran for 371 yards.  If you are going to discredit JCU's close wins because of extenuating circumstances and selectively pick out certain points to make you argument, but overlook the big picture, then I'll point to Mount hiding Micheli's passing ability as the only reason SJF was within 30 points of Mount.  LK knew the only team that could touch his Raiders was UWW in the Stagg and he wanted a trick up his sleeve and since the East posed no threat to Mount, he could simply run Kmic over and over again.   

Coach,
You are usually level headed and even keeled on here so I wont be too abrasive- but that was probably the most arrogant thing i have ever heard you say re UMU.. Even if it were true- and I doubt that highly- it was 4 years ago- why the hell come back and post crap like that.
Honestly....
Enjoy your team. they are with out a doubt the best ive seen, but i will end my compliments there and hope that there is at least one UMU fan that thinks that your post was too much

I posted that because it sounds just as crazy and stupid to you guys as your arguments about the "East getting screwed" when a 9-1 team doesn't get the #1 seed sounds to us.  You don't like hearing the theory that LK hid Greg Micheli's arm from Whitewater and we don't like hearing that the East should be full of 9-1 and 8-2 teams when the West and North are 1/2 full of undefeated teams.    

I knew that would get a rise out of your guys and I did so on purpose!  If you really want to know what I think about this year's playoffs, go back and read my post on November 1st on Page 179.

The opinions of 99% of us posting on D3 are so devoid of wide based actual facts since we have such a small sample size to pull from makes most of our theories little more than fan-laced guesses.    We all have our agendas and hopes.  Some wear them more openly then others, but very few of us other than Keith and Pat, bring an open mind to a discussion.

When Mount was shipped east for the first time, I was more than shocked that the NCAA had the balls to do so.  I thought Mount had gotten screwed by being shipped OUT of the North.  I, and some others, figured the NCAA was out to make Mount's path as tough as possible, not easier.  And I honestly worried about those playoffs more than most years because I knew nothing about the East teams.  I knew what the North brought to the table and knew if Mount stayed healthy and played well they'd be fine, but the last memory I had of the East was those big, fast, nasty Rowan teams.  After a few years of playing the East, it's my opinion that they're good, but not great.  Just like the South is, and the North w/o Mount and the West w/o Whitewater.    

But until the East can produce a 10-0, I don't think the North or South should be penalized for having a ton of undefeated teams and the East rewarded with a bunch of 1 and 2 loss teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 12:37:29 PM
The east has produced plenty of 10-0 teams.  Curry, Suny Maritime, Plymouth State, Worcester State........

But this is kind of our issue.  Our 1 and 2 loss teams are better than our 0 loss teams.  A lot of that has to do with the AQ (which we have come to accept), but this is kind of like the d1 arguement.  Does 10-0 Boise State deserve a national championship shot over 9-1 Alabama/Auburn/Oregon/?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 12:39:00 PM
Coach you got the reaction that you wanted...
Whatever
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:39:51 PM
Again, HScoach, with all due respect, North quality teams should actually schedule each other, and so should the South and West -- then we'd see a lot less, if any, X-0 teams.  Nobody seems to be jumping on that discussion point in Keith's article.  Why?  Because the 12-quality teams lumped into 4 conferences argument and scheduling each other every year pretty much is true?  Again, Wins and Losses are not the only things that show strength/lack thereof.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:45:38 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:22:18 PM

DelVal has earned another week of practice and another quality game in the playoffs.  It DOES matter longterm for these teams.  You're getting into a circular argument that you might want to be careful of -- you ask "WHY CAN'T THE EAST GET A STRONG TEAM ON PAPER ANYMORE?" and then claim that it doesn't matter what round the East's leader plays UMU?  It DOES matter.  Keith and Pat talk about the 15 extra weeks of practice and quality opponents UMU and UW-W have under their belt for their seniors?  How can any East team get to that point under current circumstances?  Like I said, the NCAA can't claim this is a national system until it aids teams in breaking down the regional structure THROUGHOUT the season by subsidizing 50 out-of-region games to aid in comparisons.  At a cost of $250,000 (which the NCAA would partially recoup in a gate recoupment agreement with the teams involved), this could be done and help create matchups we've never seen before.  This is an instance where the NCAA needs to put its money where its mouth is, or it needs to stop trying to break down the regional walls until the Semifinals. 

Frank, as I've told you numerous times, I'm sympathetic to a team like Delaware Valley, which IMO, should be given a lot of credit for scheduling an elite team OOC on the road. I would have no problem with them as a #1 seed this season. But you've kind of used DVC this season to base your entire argument of tougher OOC schedules being the issue for east teams and have ignored other facts.

I simply believe that East Region teams have blown their chances at #1 seeds in two additional ways you don't mention:

1. Losing games in conference-- Examples: The entire E8 from 2006-2009. The entire LL from 2006-2009. The NJAC in 2010 and 2007.

2. Losing a game to a mediocre OOC opponent (or multiple ones)-- Examples: 2010 Alfred (Rochester + RPI) and St. Lawrence (Wick). 2009 Montclair (Wilkes)

Sure, you're right on DVC this season. And yeah, Cortland had to deal with Ithaca in 2008. (Of course, Ithaca could have been a #1 seed too--see point 1)

But is asking Alfred to beat Rochester and RPI that much? Really, Montclair loses by 27 to a team King's whipped? Ithaca loses by 31 to a four-loss Fisher? All of those games cost the East Region an unbeaten, and none of them were equivalent to going to Wesley.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:56:01 PM
BTW, something I've wondered, non- #1 related

Would a 9-1 Fisher that wins a Pool C be seeded ahead of an 8-2 Alfred it lost to H2H? What about a 7-3 Alfred? How much does the H2H override records in a case like that
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:39:51 PM
Again, HScoach, with all due respect, North quality teams should actually schedule each other, and so should the South and West -- then we'd see a lot less, if any, X-0 teams.  Nobody seems to be jumping on that discussion point in Keith's article.  Why?  Because the 12-quality teams lumped into 4 conferences argument and scheduling each other every year pretty much is true?  Again, Wins and Losses are not the only things that show strength/lack thereof.

I would love to see that too.   One of our biggest complaints is that Wittenberg from the NCAC won't play Mount as an opener even though they used to be in, and owned, the OAC back in the 70's and early 80's.  Witt set up series with Capital  back before Cap was any good, but unfortunately by the time the games were played Capital had Rocky Pentello at QB and were good.  Capital beat the crap out of Witt and they ended that series in a hurry.

The CCIW and NCAC seems to be the conferences doing the most ducking.  It's hard to get an accurate read on the OAC's non-league plan would be as we only have 1 open date, but it seems like they don't purposely shy away from good competition.  Capital played Wesley this year, Ohio Northern opened with North Central in 08/09 year and played a WIAC team this season (albeit a bad one).  Jeesz, even lowly Marietta traveled to St John's (MN) a few years ago.  I don't think there is a league wide plan to schedule really tough openers, but I don't think it's an avoidance issue either.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 01:24:53 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 12:34:16 PM

But until the East can produce a 10-0, I don't think the North or South should be penalized for having a ton of undefeated teams and the East rewarded with a bunch of 1 and 2 loss teams.


If you have a ton of undefeated teams in the North and South Region, that tells me two things.  1) The South Region teams won't change a thing...as they get to avoid MUC or UWW until at worst the semi-finals by doing nothing different then what they are doing now.  2) North Region teams that are rolling through the regular season undefeated that don't play in MUC's conference, or during the regular season in some sort of non-conference game, won't change a thing...like the South Region teams, they watch MUC get shipped off to the East without every playing them in the regular season. 

Then both of these Regions get to sit back and tell the East to "get better" or "look at how many Final Four apperances our Region teams have over yours" as a reason to why they are so much better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.

Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2010, 01:40:39 PM
IMO, the south is quasi-equal to the East.  Neither has had a national champion in decades. However, The West seems like it's been stronger in the long run with Linfield, WIAC, MIAC, etc. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 05, 2010, 01:42:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2010, 01:40:39 PM
IMO, the south is quasi-equal to the East.  Neither has had a national champion in decades. However, The West seems like it's been stronger in the long run with Linfield, WIAC, MIAC, etc. 



I agree...that is why I focused on the North (minus MUC) and the South Regions...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 05, 2010, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 11:41:14 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore.  

Tell that to the Guru...

I was responding to someone who had already brought it up, but with incomplete information. Namely, you, Upstate. :)

Don't act like you don't bring it up every chance you get...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2010, 01:45:19 PM
I think I'd really enjoy a Wheaton or North Central vs. Del Val or Fisher and see what happens.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.

Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

Good Point.  I've seen them live once (2007) and I have to say their lines were great, but it is their potential for big plays that impressed me.  Of course Garcon helped with that a little, but Kmic was able to break 3-4 huge plays that simply put Ithaca away.  If he ran the ball 25 times, 20 of them weren't great, but 5 of them were game breakers.  Also a credit to MUCs blocking receivers and other backs getting to the second level.  Those guys are huge too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 05, 2010, 01:49:09 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 12:56:01 PM
BTW, something I've wondered, non- #1 related

Would a 9-1 Fisher that wins a Pool C be seeded ahead of an 8-2 Alfred it lost to H2H? What about a 7-3 Alfred? How much does the H2H override records in a case like that

I would presume so.  Fisher is higher in the Regional Rankings, so they should be seeded higher.  

And don't think I didn't catch your little reverse-mojo statement of Alfred being the "favorite to win the E8."  I think Fisher still has a better chance than Alfred, but that speaks more to my insecurity as a Saxon fan playing Ithaca than anything else.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 02:01:32 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.

Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

Good Point.  I've seen them live once (2007) and I have to say their lines were great, but it is their potential for big plays that impressed me.  Of course Garcon helped with that a little, but Kmic was able to break 3-4 huge plays that simply put Ithaca away.  If he ran the ball 25 times, 20 of them weren't great, but 5 of them were game breakers.  Also a credit to MUCs blocking receivers and other backs getting to the second level.  Those guys are huge too.

I spoke to Jamie Donovan about that game, and the main thing he mentioned was the sheer size of the MUC guys
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 05, 2010, 01:49:09 PM


And don't think I didn't catch your little reverse-mojo statement of Alfred being the "favorite to win the E8."  I think Fisher still has a better chance than Alfred, but that speaks more to my insecurity as a Saxon fan playing Ithaca than anything else.

The Bombers currently rank 224 out of 236 teams in rushing...Alfred by 40. Secky for President
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 05, 2010, 02:12:50 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 02:01:32 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.

Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

Good Point.  I've seen them live once (2007) and I have to say their lines were great, but it is their potential for big plays that impressed me.  Of course Garcon helped with that a little, but Kmic was able to break 3-4 huge plays that simply put Ithaca away.  If he ran the ball 25 times, 20 of them weren't great, but 5 of them were game breakers.  Also a credit to MUCs blocking receivers and other backs getting to the second level.  Those guys are huge too.

I spoke to Jamie Donovan about that game, and the main thing he mentioned was the sheer size of the MUC guys

They didn't look much bigger than SJF would.  Not as flabby, but not giants. and their best player (McCullah?) wasn't huge.  Their LB had some huge arms though (Deriggi?)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 02:12:50 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 02:01:32 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.

Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

Good Point.  I've seen them live once (2007) and I have to say their lines were great, but it is their potential for big plays that impressed me.  Of course Garcon helped with that a little, but Kmic was able to break 3-4 huge plays that simply put Ithaca away.  If he ran the ball 25 times, 20 of them weren't great, but 5 of them were game breakers.  Also a credit to MUCs blocking receivers and other backs getting to the second level.  Those guys are huge too.

I spoke to Jamie Donovan about that game, and the main thing he mentioned was the sheer size of the MUC guys

They didn't look much bigger than SJF would.  Not as flabby, but not giants. and their best player (McCullah?) wasn't huge.  Their LB had some huge arms though (Deriggi?)

I saw nothing first-hand. Just reiterating a first-hand account
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 12:39:00 PM
Coach you got the reaction that you wanted...
Whatever


BOO - FREAKIN' - HOO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 05, 2010, 12:39:00 PM
Coach you got the reaction that you wanted...
Whatever


BOO - FREAKIN' - HOO.

Max the failed expectations of the current season of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia have really turned you into an edgy guy as of late.  Don't worry I have faith the show will rebound. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2010, 02:42:16 PM
Not to be a d!ck (of course I am, though  :P) but I think Max represents those of us (and there are some of us) who are sick of people complaining about MTU being moved in.  The Eastern teams have their chances to go undefeated and still none of them can do it. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
boobs, you're right, but not about IAS (i don't really watch); but doesn't it seem like you guys are super touchy about Fisher as of late? first all the complaining about the poll last week, then all this stuff about how close you were to MUC this week. I see a team that hasn't won the conference since '07. Neither have we but all this chirping about respect is coming from one corner.

I think the simple fact is that the E8 is pretty weak right now. And I also think it's one of the best conferences in the East Region. Sad but true.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.


Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

JT,

Correct on both counts. 

If even talent, LK will win more than he loses.  The Ohio Northern teams of late 1990's were much better than Mount physically.  Their problem was they were coached by an idiot that out-thought himself constantly.  ONU had an RB every bit as good as Gagliardi winner Chuck Moore, but ONU in back-to-back possessions on 4th down in the 4th quarter of a tight game used him as a decoy an gave the ball to a FB that never carried the ball.  They'd also do stupid stuff like reverse half-back passes from inside their own 20 with a minute left before halftime that would get picked and give Mount another easy TD entering the break.  Just plain stupid.

Best chance to beat Mount is win the line of scrimmage, which is what has made Whitewater the beast that they are.   Whitewater has been the only team to be able to push Mount around on the line and get consistent pressure out of the front 4 recently.  Which is exactly why Rowan beat Mount in 1999.  Mount couldn't block the Rowan front 4.

When Mount first started winning titles back in 1990's, they did so in spite of their line play.  Much of the 2000's in because of their line play.  If you have access to the 1993 Stagg tape, go back and watch how much Rowan dominated the line of scrimmage that day.  It was scary.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 03:02:58 PM
I think I said earlier in the week that part of the problem is that arguments concerning this issue are interlocked -- that looking at one portion of the issue in a vacuum makes little sense.  My overall look at the issue is a longterm one that needs to start soon.  It's not about some instant fix.  With that, here are my answers to Keith's questions from last week in full.  I think this helps show my entire line of thinking about what needs to be done at a macro-level.  It's long, but hopefully it's worth the read:

1. Why do you think an East Region team hasn't been to Salem since 1999?

Put simply, Mount Union.  In the years that the East has had some quality teams in the running, the NCAA has either placed the "East Bracket" winner against the "North Bracket" winner or placed Mount Union in the bracket outright.  Thus, even in the years Mount Union wasn't placed in the East, the team was still there to knock out the East's representative in the Semifinals. 

2. Explain the gripe East Region fans have with building a bracket around No. 1-seeded Mount Union.

East Region fans have a relevant gripe concerning the Mount Union rotation into the East, since it is an indication that somehow, win-loss records are the only indication of teams' relative strengths.  It seems as though the Selection Committee doesn't notice that there are some relatively strong teams in the East that actually play each other and force each other to losses.  Thus, the actual depth of teams in the mix in the East is, I'd say, larger than those in the other regions.  If you remove Mount Union from the North and Wisconsin-Whitewater from the West, I don't see the same level of depth in the North and West, respectively.  The East has Fisher, Ithaca, Alfred, Union, RPI, Hobart, Cortland St., Rowan, Montclair St., Delaware Valley, Lycoming and others that all seem to be in the mix and that all intermix in out-of-conference games.  So, by placing Mount Union in the East because of the idea that no team went through undefeated in the East disrespects the teams in the East Region simply through that gesture.

3. If you have to go through Mount Union to win it all anyway, what difference does it make when you do it?

There are two reasons. First, the disrespect issue -- it penalizes the East teams that schedule strong out-of-conference opponents (like Delaware Valley when the team schedules Wesley).  Because of the severe risk DelVal took, the team now likely gets penalized with the potential of just two home playoff games if it makes it that far.  That's a complete sign of disrespect to a team that tried to give the country an exciting cross-regional game.

Second, it's a self-defeating prophecy for the East.  The way to create an East team that can actually regularly compete with the powers of the South, West and North is by allowing a team to get the practice and actual game experience deeper in the playoffs.  By placing Mount Union in the East, it shorts the potential East winner one full game since no East team will go to the Semifinals if Mount Union isn't eliminated by them or another team earlier in the process.  The extra week of practice and extra game against a quality team would provide experience and lessons that can't be matched in normal regular season play.  So, if a team tries to go out schedule a playoff-caliber team out of conference, they likely get penalized by being knocked down the bracket if they make it into the playoffs at all.  The Committee is not providing the East with a sufficient ability to breed a powerhouse by repeatedly placing Mount Union in the East and by penalizing teams taking risks earlier in the season.

4. Do you feel there's no incentive for teams to play tough schedules because they aren't being rewarded with at-large playoff bids if they lose?

Put simply, absolutely.  There are enough teams in Division III now that we'll have at least six teams go 9-1 by losing a conference game and otherwise running the table.  So, if there are six or more 9-1 teams looking at Pool C, we have been told on two occasions (once by the Committee Chairwoman and once, more recently, by a former member of the Committee) that 8-2 teams would not be considered unless direct links could be used for comparison's sake between specific 9-1 and 8-2 teams in the mix.  How often can that happen when the regions RARELY cross over to play each other?

To go 9-1 and be staring at Pool C means you have to beat all out-of-conference opponents.  So, let's say Delaware Valley loses a close game to a remaining MAC opponent this year.  The team's stunningly close game at then-#3 Wesley actually would do more harm than good in retrospect.  Yet, Delaware Valley would finish 8-2 under that scenario with a quality loss better than most in the tournament field.  The same could be said for St. John Fisher last year if the team had won one more game, since it ventured to Alliance, Ohio to play Mount Union to open the teams' seasons.  At 8-2, it looks like St. John Fisher was not going to be in the mix.  Why should those teams play powerhouse teams?  Even if the "you gotta play the best to be the best" philosophy holds, your loss to a powerhouse Wesley team will come at the price of placing you at a disadvantage during selection and/or seeding in the playoffs -- meaning you might not play as many quality games later by playing your quality opponent(s) earlier in the season.

5. What alternatives to the current selection process would you suggest?

I think three things need to be done.  First, I think that the regional nature of Division III football needs to be honored in the meantime of things remaining as they are.  Specifically, the top teams in each region should be honored by not displacing them or moving them around.  They've earned the right to play at the top of their region by playing the best football in their region all season.  The only teams that should be rotated between brackets should be #7 and #8 seeds (or teams that might be worse than #8 in that region but are still selected) in order to assist the Committee in placing teams when a specific region might have more than eight teams in the field (due to Pool B/C reasons) or NCAA travel rules dictate.  Generally, #7 and #8 seeds are teams that won their conferences with weaker win-loss records -- thus, the teams should have the expectation of a certain level of travel in the tournament.  If those teams can win their First Round games, then they'll be back in their region the next weekend.

Second, the NCAA needs to look at what the BCS attempts to do in FBS football and realize that, while it may not be perfect, there's something to be learned.  Specifically, the NCAA realizes that the sample size for using bare strength-of-schedule statistics is too small and can ignore conference and individual team strength.  To avoid such problems, the BCS uses both statistics (computer rankings) and human opinions (i.e., the human polls) to determine the eventual placement of the teams.  I don't agree with using a facsimile of this process for Division III.  However, I do believe that it is time to use national polls, like D3football.com's and the AFCA's Top 25 polls, to help weight wins and losses like the BCS does to assist the Committee in the ultimate selection of the Pool B and C teams.  Using bare win-loss and strength-of-schedule numbers isn't enough because the sample size in Division III is even smaller.  Human polls tend to understand that a loss against a quality team should not severely penalize that team.  However, the Committee appears to be ignoring those distinctions, perhaps due to a lack of information or an overreaction to strength-of-schedule numbers that might not tell the real story (for instance, Mount Union at #3 in the North this week in the Regional Rankings).  Whatever is the cause, national human polls (not regional subcommittee polls) can help tell a better story when cross-regional decisions need to be made and when teams decide whether or not taking on a tough opponent is a wise idea.

Third, I think the NCAA needs to create a fund to subsidize regular season travel for teams that opt to take on out-of-region opponents during out-of-conference games.  If the eventual hope is to take the regional nature out of Division III football and if the Division can create incentives to make teams want to face traditionally powerful teams, the NCAA needs to put its money where its mouth is in this respect.  Long trips in these economic times are becoming less and less appealing.  Yet, if the NCAA can find a way to even create 50 more cross-regional games per season, we could measure the relative strengths of teams in each region much more easily while providing some entertaining games for the fans -- and experiences like no other for the student-athletes taking the long trips.

6. What specifically are fans and teams missing out on by doing it the way it's done?

They're missing out on unique, appealing matchups between teams that otherwise might never play.  Imagine if DelVal decided to end its series against Wesley.  Look at how entertaining that game was this year and how much attention it drew.  Why shouldn't we see an occasional battle between Union and Mary Hardin-Baylor every so often?  Yet, DelVal and Union have no incentive to play such games -- and under the current Mount Union-at-the-top-of-the-East scenario, they never will get to play those games if they aren't scheduled in the regular season.

The fans are also missing out on some variety in the Stagg Bowl because if the current selection process continues to disincentivize taking risks during the season, no team will be able to gain the experience and strength to reasonably take on Mount Union and Wisconsin-Whitewater for the next decade.  Those teams get five extra games each year -- their seniors will have had 15 extra weeks of practice and 15 extra games compared to teams that might have missed the playoffs the prior three years for whatever reason.  Sure, the "Any Given Saturday" idea is always at play, but there comes a point when fans are going to want to truly believe coming into a game that the game should be competitive.  Year to year, their hopes of this are fading more and more because there is no clear incentive being created to get other teams in a position to consistently compete.

7. How important is variety of playoff opponent in keeping the game interesting? What about scheduling tough opponents? Whose job is it to ensure that happens?

I've been reporting from the sidelines of the Stagg Bowl for the past three years.  While I love the atmosphere and the personalities I've grown accustomed to seeing every year in Salem, part of me really would love to see another team and their fans get a taste of the excitement in Salem.  We can only explain it so much in words -- you have to be there for a few days to understand it.  And this trickles down to the other playoff games.  When I announced the St. John Fisher/Mount Union playoff game in Alliance a few years ago, the excitement surrounding the Fisher program was electric, regardless of the result of the game.  It's just an intangible that keeps the game fresh and the teams striving to improve and play better teams.

It's partially the NCAA's job to ensure scheduling of quality opponents -- by that, I mean that the NCAA and/or Selection Committee cannot sit there and create disincentives like I have begun to witness over the last couple seasons.  To avoid Mount Union being placed in the East, a quality 10-0 team must exist in the East -- so why should Rowan or Montclair schedule a qualty out-of-conference opponent and risk the East being ambushed again by the Purple Raiders?  If 8-2 teams are not going to be truly considered in Pool C, then the same question gets asked again.  There are too many DISincentives being created right now -- and the source of them is either the NCAA or the Selection Committee, or perhaps both since the Selection Committee is following some level of the NCAA's protocol in the selection process.  Thus, it's incumbent on the NCAA to begin to consider what is happening and how to create better incentives in football since strength-of-schedule numbers are not really aiding in the creation of better regular season matchups.

8. You've seen the top teams from different regions play. Is there really a major difference in talent level?

I don't think it's a pure talent level issue. I think it's a depth issue.  Sure, there were players that were on Mary Hardin-Baylor and Hardin-Simmons a couple years ago when I called their First Round game and on Wesley, Mount Union and Whitewater that have major size advantages compared to Liberty League teams, for instance.  However, that's not the real story.  These teams seem to just be deeper at all positions than the lower teams in each region.  We know the Mount Union story with the unlimited depth they truly have -- but we don't seem to fully recognize that for a program to continuously win, it takes depth to dodge injury problems and fatigue throughout a game.  How does a team become deep?  Usually, it takes two things:  1) a commitment by a school to work with coaches in getting more players through the admissions process at a specific school; and 2) success on the field in the first place.  The national spotlight only falls on a few teams regularly -- and those teams seem to field deep teams -- it's not just a coincidence.  Whether it's the chicken or the egg is another question -- but I think commitment from these schools comes first, followed by success, which leads to more and more depth.

9. Is there any reason to believe an East Region team couldn't win a Stagg Bowl in the future?

It depends on how far in the future you mean and what happens in the meantime.  If things continue happening in the direction they have been, then I don't see it happening in the next decade -- it would take a truly magical run right now.  If the Committee begins respecting the top end of the East, then I think we could -- it would take one major cross-regional victory in the Semifinals to have it happen instead of two when Mount Union is placed at the top of the East Bracket.  So, it's tough to answer this question since we don't know what the next Selection Committee will decide to do and whether or not the NCAA will step in to shake things up a bit.  It's not looking good right now, though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2010, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
boobs, you're right, but not about IAS (i don't really watch); but doesn't it seem like you guys are super touchy about Fisher as of late? first all the complaining about the poll last week, then all this stuff about how close you were to MUC this week. I see a team that hasn't won the conference since '07. Neither have we but all this chirping about respect is coming from one corner.

I think the simple fact is that the E8 is pretty weak right now. And I also think it's one of the best conferences in the East Region. Sad but true.

Man, we are always super touchy about Fisher.  But the only only only reason we mentioned Mount Union was in response to HScoach (who has since posted non-inflammatory remarks that I am tending to agree with) who said Fisher could have gotten throttled in that game if they weren't being treatled as a cuddly non-threatening team from the East.  Surely you would defend your team if you felt this was not so.  

Also, we did "win" the conference last year as well...Alfred just so happened to win it along with us and they called shotgun on going to the tournament before us.  So what could we do about it?  They called Shotgun Max...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 05, 2010, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
boobs, you're right, but not about IAS (i don't really watch); but doesn't it seem like you guys are super touchy about Fisher as of late? first all the complaining about the poll last week, then all this stuff about how close you were to MUC this week. I see a team that hasn't won the conference since '07. Neither have we but all this chirping about respect is coming from one corner.

I think the simple fact is that the E8 is pretty weak right now. And I also think it's one of the best conferences in the East Region. Sad but true.

"all of the complaining"

Max, I hardly think a couple comments would fit that description...

The people who were doing all of the complaining were the ones talking about MSU dropping out of the poll...

My god if anything you're the one that needs to be criticized, if anyone says anything even remotely related about SJF's program you're the first one to say "here goes SJF guys complaing or boasting too much"...

Look, I imagine it hurts being SJF's bitch but get over it...

EDIT:

For the record I like your posts Max and you really seem like a good guy, the only problem i have is the over exaggerating of SJF's point of view.  If you want to take pot shots and jabs at us that's cool, I mean that's what we're all here for is football discussion and trash talk...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 03:13:40 PM
+k boobs.


Quote from: Upstate on November 05, 2010, 03:08:42 PM
Look, I imagine it hurts being SJF's bitch but get over it...


If it's true how am I supposed to get over it? But remember when you could also point to your success against, you know, other teams? This little comment seems to be all you have left. You better hope that bitch wins on Saterday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 03:15:10 PM
What I really wanted to post here, was this:

I think a lot of people are hiding the opinion, for fear of upsetting the MUC guys, that having two teams in the entire DIII pool that dominate this much is so frustrating that it might be time to start referring to it as a problem.....

So I will be the one to bring it up. Ain't this MUC-UWW situation a little F'd?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 05, 2010, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 01:34:47 PM
All of it gets pretty moot when the OAC can't compete with Mount. One regular season defeat in 2005 (1st since 1994) by Ohio Northern and ONU couldn't hold serve.  At 9-1 Mount won the league, ONU wound up 7-2.  Last time Mount did not win the OAC... 1991.

This tells me that you need superior talent, otherwise if its close, you stand a great chance of being outcoached.

What it really comes down to, and I haven't seen 'em in person in a while, is the oline and dlines.  Mount's are far superior on average than their opponents over the years.  When a team can pressure up front w/o blitzing, is when you stand a good chance.  If you can run on Mount too, even better.


Still the South and West get a pass, and the North gets a semi-finalist it wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

JT,

Correct on both counts.  

If even talent, LK will win more than he loses.  The Ohio Northern teams of late 1990's were much better than Mount physically.  Their problem was they were coached by an idiot that out-thought himself constantly.  ONU had an RB every bit as good as Gagliardi winner Chuck Moore, but ONU in back-to-back possessions on 4th down in the 4th quarter of a tight game used him as a decoy an gave the ball to a FB that never carried the ball.  They'd also do stupid stuff like reverse half-back passes from inside their own 20 with a minute left before halftime that would get picked and give Mount another easy TD entering the break.  Just plain stupid.

Best chance to beat Mount is win the line of scrimmage, which is what has made Whitewater the beast that they are.   Whitewater has been the only team to be able to push Mount around on the line and get consistent pressure out of the front 4 recently.  Which is exactly why Rowan beat Mount in 1999.  Mount couldn't block the Rowan front 4.

When Mount first started winning titles back in 1990's, they did so in spite of their line play.  Much of the 2000's in because of their line play.  If you have access to the 1993 Stagg tape, go back and watch how much Rowan dominated the line of scrimmage that day.  It was scary.

When I'm feeling like a masochist I browse the 1993 and 1998 Stagg Bowls.  Haven't in a few years.  Got 'em all from OU25 including the 1999 Semi's.

The 2001 Bridgewater clip makes me want to go hunting for NCAC refs.  I haven't seen that in about 6 years. Probably a good thing.

Accorsi has been working the four year formula in an attempt to try another way to get back and compete.  Unfortunately, he's had some major disappointments with young talent that couldn't stay in school from one year to the next.  Plus, sometimes the rare transfer stud goes somewhere else in the NJAC today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 05, 2010, 03:18:38 PM
I don't have a problem with MUC coming to the East, if the NCAA wants to make 4 top seeds and fill out brackets that fit within their 500 mile thing that's cool.  Just don't use regional results to pick the last 6 and just take the best 6 teams...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 03:22:04 PM
you misunderstood me: i don't think MUC coming east is F'd. I think MUC (and UWW) being so dominant over everyone is a little F'd.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 05, 2010, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 03:22:04 PM
you misunderstood me: i don't think MUC coming east is F'd. I think MUC (and UWW) being so dominant over everyone is a little F'd.

I got what you were saying, I was just throwing that point out there as my stance on the whole playoff picture...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 05, 2010, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 03:15:10 PM
What I really wanted to post here, was this:

So I will be the one to bring it up. Ain't this MUC-UWW situation a little F'd?

Amen brotha'
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 03:48:38 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 05, 2010, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 11:41:14 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 04, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 04, 2010, 06:57:18 PM
I don't think we can use 2002 as a sample anymore.  

Tell that to the Guru...

I was responding to someone who had already brought it up, but with incomplete information. Namely, you, Upstate. :)

Don't act like you don't bring it up every chance you get...

Well, honestly, if someone brings it up from the East-centric perspective then you might well expect to get challenged from the national perspective. Sorry I responded to it but at least it didn't derail the conversation.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 05, 2010, 03:49:47 PM
Quote from: JT on November 05, 2010, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 AM
Well believe what you want (as everyone always does), but as someone who had direct access to LK after that game, I can tell you he DEFINITELY pulled back the reigns regarding the passing attack during that game.  Remember, Micheli wasn't the full-time starter then, but with the injury to the starter, he was getting all/most of the playing time.  

He really came into his own during the Stagg (MVP), and I can tell you that Mount was game-planning for just that coming out party in that game.  LK knew that Micheli could/would be the difference, as UWW would prepare a defense to stop Kmic after what happened the year before, and due to how he was running in the '06 play-off run.

I know you don't want to hear it, but it doesn't make it less so.  LK has always been much more conservative in play-off games wherever/whenever he can, as he has said many times you get no style points once it's the play-offs.  It's all about winning and moving on.

Skunks, with all due respect, I don't know what that means.  Do you mean he was saving a few formations or concepts for the Stagg Bowl like no huddle, spread, quick passing game etc?  Or do you mean they just gave Kmic the ball 80% of the time in that game and less in the next game?

LK (like most coaches) will run something until a team stops it.  If one team cannot stop the run, he ain't gonna pass a whole lot.

He's only hiding something if he has the luxury to do so.


I have a feeling this is exactly what happened....JT, your pretty smart for a guy who had the gaul earlier to evaluate the play of defensive backs!!

+1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 05, 2010, 03:18:38 PM
I don't have a problem with MUC coming to the East, if the NCAA wants to make 4 top seeds and fill out brackets that fit within their 500 mile thing that's cool.  Just don't use regional results to pick the last 6 and just take the best 6 teams...

I think they are doing their best to actually do this. If you look at the regional rankings, for example, in the north and the east, you'll see it is not simply a straight recitation of regional record (East) nor does it ignore the non-regional results (North, esp. Wabash).

The system voted on by the Division III member schools constrains them but they are truly trying to do the right thing. We do harp on it because a bunch of us think last year they failed mightily.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 05, 2010, 03:57:12 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 05, 2010, 12:26:48 PM
It doesn't matter that much.  MUC and UWW would be having 15 weeks of practice no matter who they played, and thats a fact (unless they played each other in the first round, if they play in the semi-finals, then yea, its 14 extra weeks of practice, and we all get to see some more 55-3 stagg bowls)

If in a couple years, if DelVal's seniors have 12 extra weeks, it doesn't give them a chance?  A team eventually taking down the Mount isn't going to just magically appear, is it?  Let's ask the North guys -- HEY NORTH GUYS, WHEN IS YOUR MAGIC UNICORN APPEARING?

Sure it gives them a chance.  But so does lifting 2 extra hours a week, or doing 3 extra sprints a day in the summer, or an extra phone call by an assistant coach to that kid he saw in the paper that might go to your school instead of your rival's school, etc, etc.

Just pointing out that these things matter, but not that much in the long run. 


Totally agree....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 05, 2010, 03:58:05 PM
Well, if MUC happens to go East, strap it up and go 'em.  It is true that there are "weaker" MUC teams from time-to-time and sometimes they get beat and sometimes they still squeak by.

I think arguments have been productive. It went national and the chairwoman was quizzed about it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 03:15:10 PM
What I really wanted to post here, was this:

I think a lot of people are hiding the opinion, for fear of upsetting the MUC guys, that having two teams in the entire DIII pool that dominate this much is so frustrating that it might be time to start referring to it as a problem.....

So I will be the one to bring it up. Ain't this MUC-UWW situation a little F'd?

I think it's an issue of unintended consequences. Much like getting an East team to #1, teams have to take care of business. It's 100% the responsibility of the other teams to step up and beat MUC and UW-W. Those two schools have nothing to apologize for, obviously.

But yes, there has been, for the past five years, a sense of inevitability about the whole thing. Maybe at Wesley, UMHB, etc. this isn't the case. But it does feel to me like it's 234 teams and then Mount and Whitewater. Now again, that's something the other schools have to change. But it is fair to ask if it's the best thing for the sport.

Of course, there are dynasties in many sports, but I think what makes this different is because these teams can (and do) go undefeated, the idea of them being unbeatable isn't the same as it is when it's the Yankees and we see them lose 50-70 times a season. Or even the Bulls who would lose 15-20. When we say they're "unbeatable" we're being extremely hyperbolic. Sure it may be surprising if they don't win a title, but it's not like those teams losing an individual game is incredibly noteworthy

Over the past 5+ seasons, MUC and Whitewater have gone 153-3 against teams not each other. So, it almost IS like they're unbeatable in the literal sense.

Now sure, Whitewater has played a number of close games in 2008 and 2007 and even Mount has had a few relatively close games. So it's not like an "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" scenario before a game, (for the good teams at least). But at the same time...153-3. I think we tend to notice bigger picture in a case like this. Our "progress" is Mount "only" winning by 14, Whitewater "only" winning by 10. We say things like "Mount isn't exactly looking like Mount," and "Maybe this is the year," and hope for a better next week. But what happens if we get a sixth straight National Championship between the two? Again, no-one will blame those two teams, and we'll rightfully say that Del Valley, Wesley and Linfield had their shots.

But it's hard sometimes not to feel disappointed in the D-III game as a whole at times. Not because you don't like it, but because yeah it feels inevitable. I'm always excited for Bomber football, but even in the seasons where they had great teams that make deep playoff runs, in the back of my mind I knew "Yeah, but Mount's there, so it's not like we've got a shot at a title." This was right around the time Mount went something like 98-1 over six+ seasons. Now I feel like there's no shot at even getting into the title game at all. I mean, we can't even get teams like Wesley and Linfield through anymore. Forget a Cinderella-type like Butler or teams like the Flyers, Marlins or Cardinals making stunning playoff runs.

And yes, this topic is brought up every year, but as every year passes where this happens, I think it becomes more and more of a legitimate concern for fans.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 04:32:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

I nominate St. Lawrence
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 04:34:34 PM
And if this site had been around in the 1980s, no doubt the same thing would have been said about Augustana. :P

Fortunately, as the Vikings discovered, all dynasties end eventually.  Mt. Union (and now UWW) just seem to be taking longer than most to fall! :o 8-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 04:40:35 PM
It's funny, because Ithaca was a major power back in the day, but actually has never had a team go 10-0 (or better). So people think I'm being hypocritical because hey, wasn't IC that way? But those teams never once even ran the table. Augustana, I can't speak to though. Did they have long stretches of never losing?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 05:08:17 PM
Augustana never lost a game from 1983-86.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 05, 2010, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 04:40:35 PM
It's funny, because Ithaca was a major power back in the day, but actually has never had a team go 10-0 (or better). So people think I'm being hypocritical because hey, wasn't IC that way? But those teams never once even ran the table. Augustana, I can't speak to though. Did they have long stretches of never losing?

I had my share of both Ithaca and Augustana in the playoffs in my day. Bombers, to your point, the first two Union teams I played on had 1 loss each as well, and the first lost to Augustana in the Stagg Bowl (21-17), and then to Augustana in the Semis (23-6), both very close games. But I'd stack that 1 loss 1983 Union team against anyone in the country back then.

Augustana had a great run in the early 80's, but nothing like what we are seeing now with MUC, just fundementally different. They were clearly the class of DIII for 4 years, but the playoffs were much tighter and smaller then, and I recall Augie winning some tight playoff games during their run. Don't recall their regular seasons, but I know they had a long unbeaten run.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 05, 2010, 05:16:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.


But what's all this I hear about MUC having huge rosters and more practices, etc.? I hear a lot about how great DIII is because these are truly student-athletes, and the only solution you're giving is for schools sacrifice the "student" part a little more?

I don't think it's just an issue of elevating your game. And a lot of you will say this is the young whippersnapper in me, but this isn't the same as when Augustana didn't lose for three seasons in the 80s. MUC has eclipsed that dominance and then some, and they have the aid of the information age in recruiting: kids from all over can learn about MUC and apply or get recruited. Wasn't quite like that in the 80s.

None of this is meant to downplay Mount's success. But I'm making this argument as a Yankee fan who desperately wants a salary cap, if that analogy helps.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 05:29:06 PM
Actually, Augie didn't lose a game for FOUR straight seasons.  I agree that Mt. Union has long since surpassed the 'dynasty-ness' of Augie (and that conditions are different assisting them in continuing their reign), but I delight in reminding Raiders that there is still one thing they haven't matched the Vikings in: FOUR consecutive national titles! ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 05, 2010, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 05:29:06 PM
Actually, Augie didn't lose a game for FOUR straight seasons.  I agree that Mt. Union has long since surpassed the 'dynasty-ness' of Augie (and that conditions are different assisting them in continuing their reign), but I delight in reminding Raiders that there is still one thing they haven't matched the Vikings in: FOUR consecutive national titles! ;D

I don't see MUC having the best chance at doing this right now.  UW-W might be in that position.  It would take LK a win in the Stagg this year and then three more years -- I get the sense that he might not coach for that much further into the future, but that's just my own guess.  I actually enjoy speaking with him when I get the opportunity -- he doesn't take much for granted and is very respectful, even with a somewhat intimidating presence.  Hard to explain, but I do enjoy his presence in the game.  LL of UW-W is younger and has the tools up there to make it go 15-0 four times in a row (which would surpass what Augustana had to do since the most they would have to go was 13-0).  He already has 1 1/2 of those seasons in the bank.  We'll see how it culminates.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 05, 2010, 06:23:14 PM
This will definitely be the toughest year for Mount.  They have so many sophmores playing, that their future looks very bright in 2011/12.  If they could magically pull it out this year, I can see another 3 year run in the cards. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 05, 2010, 06:30:38 PM
LK has counted to infinity...    Twice

LK can divide by 0

I see how UMU does it, they don't usually even reload, they seem to have a bottomless magazine.  What amazes me even more than Mount is how UWW is doing it with 100 man roster limit.  LL must be an outstanding recruiter or has one working for him.  He also seems to have an outstanding coaching staff that adjusts almost as well on the fly as Mount does.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 06:50:44 PM
Rosters limits are not directly relevant, since probably less than 60 will see the field.  It does, however, cut the margin for recruiting 'errors', compared to having 170 or so on the roster.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedDragonFan on November 05, 2010, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 06:50:44 PM
Rosters limits are not directly relevant, since probably less than 60 will see the field.  It does, however, cut the margin for recruiting 'errors', compared to having 170 or so on the roster.
So how is cutting the margin for recruiting errors not relevant, directly in building a successful program?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: RedDragonFan on November 05, 2010, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 06:50:44 PM
Rosters limits are not directly relevant, since probably less than 60 will see the field.  It does, however, cut the margin for recruiting 'errors', compared to having 170 or so on the roster.
So how is cutting the margin for recruiting errors not relevant, directly in building a successful program?

Don't make (many) errors! ;D

(And obviously LL doesn't.  Not saying LK does, but it would matter less if he did.)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 05, 2010, 07:24:34 PM
With all of the talk of MUC coming East again, would anybody be shocked if it were Wesley instead?  I wouldn't be shocked at all, as the committee will almost certainly consider Wesley as one of the top 4 seeds and deserving to be a #1.  And it would allow for a different flavor to this year's bracket.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2010, 07:26:45 PM
Who would be #1 in the "South" then?  it would leave multiple undefeateds in the north and west. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2010, 07:29:35 PM
I guess it could be Mary-Hardin Baylor in the south.  I suppose its possible that could happen. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 05, 2010, 07:29:56 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 05, 2010, 04:32:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

I nominate St. Lawrence


Dominant Larry.  Wasn't that a porn star from the 70s?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 05, 2010, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

But it cannot be an Eastern team.  Keith's article is dead-on about the number of schools dividing the talent in MA and NY especially.  Ithaca's national prominence ended right about the time that Buffalo State, Brockport, and especially Fisher became strong.  All of these schools, including the 1-AA and II teams divide the talent.

Why is Whitewater able to match Mount Union?  Take a look at the Wisconson map.  Besides the obvious University of Wisconson, there is just a handful of schools.  Plenty of great talent to go around too.

In the East things just keep getting worse and worse.  Now Utica is apparently getting good.  Morrisville went D3.  Hartwick started a program and became competitive.  Maritime started a program.  It's getting ridiculous.  There is a lot of talent up here, but not enough to support a super power unless one school dominates all of the talent.

I think if a couple Boston-centric schools folded their programs, Curry could be a major threat too.  They do well enough despite the dog fight for local talent.

I'd love to see the East rise in prominence again, but somebody has to convince me it can happen in this environment.  If it does, it will probably be in NJ or PA.  I could see Del Valley possibly pulling it off.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:09:32 PM
The changing landscape in Ohio is going to make it harder for Mount to remain at the top into the next decade.  Two nearby NAIA schools in Canton (20 miles away) are moving to D2 and a couple new D2 schools have started in the Cleveland area too.  Plus factoring in the shrinking population and economy in Ohio and convincing 100 kids a year to pay $30k+ a year to play football at Mount is going to be a lot harder than it's been.

If anyone is primed to keep stay on top it's Whitewater.  Only one D1 school in all of Wisconsin and cheap state school tuition.

It's just a complete guess on my part, but I bet LK has less than 5 years left on the sidelines.  And when he walks, the end is immediate. :'(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 08:24:22 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 05, 2010, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 04:29:50 PM
I think we used to talk the same way about it being Mount Union and everyone else. We were always urging teams to stand up to Mount Union, elevate their game and compete. UWW managed to do it. Maybe someone else can.

But it cannot be an Eastern team.  Keith's article is dead-on about the number of schools dividing the talent in MA and NY especially.  Ithaca's national prominence ended right about the time that Buffalo State, Brockport, and especially Fisher became strong.  All of these schools, including the 1-AA and II teams divide the talent.

Why is Whitewater able to match Mount Union?  Take a look at the Wisconson map.  Besides the obvious University of Wisconson, there is just a handful of schools.  Plenty of great talent to go around too.

In the East things just keep getting worse and worse.  Now Utica is apparently getting good.  Morrisville went D3.  Hartwick started a program and became competitive.  Maritime started a program.  It's getting ridiculous.  There is a lot of talent up here, but not enough to support a super power unless one school dominates all of the talent.

I think if a couple Boston-centric schools folded their programs, Curry could be a major threat too.  They do well enough despite the dog fight for local talent.

I'd love to see the East rise in prominence again, but somebody has to convince me it can happen in this environment.  If it does, it will probably be in NJ or PA.  I could see Del Valley possibly pulling it off.

But that just isn't true.  Adjusted for size of population, there are many states in the midwest and elsewhere who have MORE football-playing schools per capita than in the east.  (I can't find the post, but someone tallied up something like 28 schools in Ohio alone.)  And Wisconsin has far more football-playing schools than you seem aware of - in addition to all the WIAC schools, there are MWC, NathCon, and CCIW schools (and one or two d2s).  In Michigan, there is the MIAA (aside from Trine, just across the border), NAIA schools, many of the d2 powers, and 5 d1 schools.

The east has a lot of schools in a small geographic area, but also a large population.  And the east is actually the smallest region in terms of d3, since the NESCAC (in football) is its own separate universe.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:56:32 PM
Here's the list for Ohio:


DI-FBS
1.  Ohio State University
2.  Akron
3.  Bowling Green
4.  Kent State
5.  Miami
6.  Ohio U.
7.  Toledo
8.  Cincinnatti

DI-FCS
9.  Dayton
10.  Youngstown State

DII
11.  Ashland
12.  Findlay
13.  Tiffin
14.  Central State U.
15.  Lake Erie College


DIII
16.  Baldwin Wallace
17.  Bluffton
18.  Capital
19.  Case Westeren
20.  Defiance
21.  Dennison
22.  Heidelberg
23.  Hiram
24.  John Carroll
25.  Kenyon
26.  Marietta
27.  Mt. St. Joseph
28.  Mount Union
29.  Muskingham
30.  Oberlin
31.  Ohio Northern
32.  Ohio Wesleyan
33.  Otterbein
34.  Wilmington
35.  Wittenberg
36.  Wooster

NAIA
37.  Ohio Domincan
38.  Malone – moving to D2
39.  Walsh – moving to D2
40. Notre Dame College – moving to D2 (I think)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
I apologize to HScoach for forgetting he was the one who compiled the list, and wow did I misremember the number!  FORTY in Ohio alone is just about what the east has total in d3 (since the NESCAC doesn't really count in football).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bomber3 on November 05, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Although it can't compare to Texas, the state of Ohio has that same devotion/obsession @ the high school level.  NYS and PA don't have the same type of feelings toward HS football, which plays a significant role.  Also, the population numbers in a lot of areas these schools in the East pull from (upstate NY, PA) has declined the past 20 years.  When I was at Ithaca they were planning for the decrease in teens from CT and MA and how it would affect enrollment.  Also, the east numbers are skewed by NYC.  10 million people in the city and hardly any football players.  The outlying areas are good (CT, NJ) but the city does not produce a proportionate amount of football players.  All of these factors contribute to why the East has declined IMO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 09:39:03 PM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 05, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Although it can't compare to Texas, the state of Ohio has that same devotion/obsession @ the high school level.  NYS and PA don't have the same type of feelings toward HS football, which plays a significant role.  Also, the population numbers in a lot of areas these schools in the East pull from (upstate NY, PA) has declined the past 20 years.  When I was at Ithaca they were planning for the decrease in teens from CT and MA and how it would affect enrollment.  Also, the east numbers are skewed by NYC.  10 million people in the city and hardly any football players.  The outlying areas are good (CT, NJ) but the city does not produce a proportionate amount of football players.  All of these factors contribute to why the East has declined IMO.

The decline in passion is not just just an east phenomenon (I have no idea as to participation numbers).  20-30 years ago the QB and 'Homecoming King' were guaranteed to be the same guy in Michigan.  Such is no longer the case! ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
I apologize to HScoach for forgetting he was the one who compiled the list, and wow did I misremember the number!  FORTY in Ohio alone is just about what the east has total in d3 (since the NESCAC doesn't really count in football).

It takes talented kids away from other teams, so it counts. Admittedly, the schools cast a wider net in recruiting but there are till NE kids who aren't playing at Union or wherever because they're at a NESCAC school.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 10:55:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2010, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 09:23:52 PM
I apologize to HScoach for forgetting he was the one who compiled the list, and wow did I misremember the number!  FORTY in Ohio alone is just about what the east has total in d3 (since the NESCAC doesn't really count in football).

It takes talented kids away from other teams, so it counts. Admittedly, the schools cast a wider net in recruiting but there are till NE kids who aren't playing at Union or wherever because they're at a NESCAC school.

Yes, that is true.  I was focusing on a different point, and lost sight of the recruiting aspect.

I will still maintain that the "too many schools in too small an area" excuse is bogus.  I suggest that Iowa has far more football schools per person than the east region does.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 06, 2010, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2010, 04:34:34 PM
And if this site had been around in the 1980s, no doubt the same thing would have been said about Augustana. :P

Fortunately, as the Vikings discovered, all dynasties end eventually.  Mt. Union (and now UWW) just seem to be taking longer than most to fall! :o 8-)

Someone needs to kidnap LK before the season then drop him off at the 'Hood blindfolded before Xmas after the season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 06, 2010, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 05, 2010, 08:09:32 PM
The changing landscape in Ohio is going to make it harder for Mount to remain at the top into the next decade.  Two nearby NAIA schools in Canton (20 miles away) are moving to D2 and a couple new D2 schools have started in the Cleveland area too.  Plus factoring in the shrinking population and economy in Ohio and convincing 100 kids a year to pay $30k+ a year to play football at Mount is going to be a lot harder than it's been.

If anyone is primed to keep stay on top it's Whitewater.  Only one D1 school in all of Wisconsin and cheap state school tuition.

It's just a complete guess on my part, but I bet LK has less than 5 years left on the sidelines.  And when he walks, the end is immediate. :'(

Does this mean that you think Vince K is not close to Dad in ability?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 06, 2010, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 05, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Although it can't compare to Texas, the state of Ohio has that same devotion/obsession @ the high school level.  NYS and PA don't have the same type of feelings toward HS football, which plays a significant role.  Also, the population numbers in a lot of areas these schools in the East pull from (upstate NY, PA) has declined the past 20 years.  When I was at Ithaca they were planning for the decrease in teens from CT and MA and how it would affect enrollment.  Also, the east numbers are skewed by NYC.  10 million people in the city and hardly any football players.  The outlying areas are good (CT, NJ) but the city does not produce a proportionate amount of football players.  All of these factors contribute to why the East has declined IMO.

Much of my family comes from Western PA.  You may want to divide that state.  Western PA HS football is very big on Friday nights... Pittsburgh, Beaver Falls, Erie etc. 15-20K at a high school game is typical.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 06, 2010, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: JT on November 06, 2010, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 05, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Although it can't compare to Texas, the state of Ohio has that same devotion/obsession @ the high school level.  NYS and PA don't have the same type of feelings toward HS football, which plays a significant role.  Also, the population numbers in a lot of areas these schools in the East pull from (upstate NY, PA) has declined the past 20 years.  When I was at Ithaca they were planning for the decrease in teens from CT and MA and how it would affect enrollment.  Also, the east numbers are skewed by NYC.  10 million people in the city and hardly any football players.  The outlying areas are good (CT, NJ) but the city does not produce a proportionate amount of football players.  All of these factors contribute to why the East has declined IMO.

Much of my family comes from Western PA.  You may want to divide that state.  Western PA HS football is very big on Friday nights... Pittsburgh, Beaver Falls, Erie etc. 15-20K at a high school game is typical.

as is eastern pa....regularly attended games w/ 10-15K in the stands...inner cities don't draw well in especially in philly but suburbs and up in the coal region draw exceptionally well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 06, 2010, 09:08:56 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 06, 2010, 09:05:12 PM
Quote from: JT on November 06, 2010, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: bomber3 on November 05, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Although it can't compare to Texas, the state of Ohio has that same devotion/obsession @ the high school level.  NYS and PA don't have the same type of feelings toward HS football, which plays a significant role.  Also, the population numbers in a lot of areas these schools in the East pull from (upstate NY, PA) has declined the past 20 years.  When I was at Ithaca they were planning for the decrease in teens from CT and MA and how it would affect enrollment.  Also, the east numbers are skewed by NYC.  10 million people in the city and hardly any football players.  The outlying areas are good (CT, NJ) but the city does not produce a proportionate amount of football players.  All of these factors contribute to why the East has declined IMO.

Much of my family comes from Western PA.  You may want to divide that state.  Western PA HS football is very big on Friday nights... Pittsburgh, Beaver Falls, Erie etc. 15-20K at a high school game is typical.

as is eastern pa....regularly attended games w/ 10-15K in the stands...inner cities don't draw well in especially in philly but suburbs and up in the coal region draw exceptionally well.

Easton Pburg on Thanksgiving in the eastern most part of PA has to be played at Lafayette' Fisher Field to accommodate all the fans.  Go to any Easton, Nazareth, Bethlehem Catholic etc games and you will see some huge crowds.  Football is huge all over PA.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 06, 2010, 10:53:26 PM
Assuming Pacific Lutheran and Redlands wins (and records are included that would represent such wins), here are the teams competing for Pool C with 0- or 1-loss(es) (* - Team could win its conference's Pool A Automatic Bid still):

Hardin-Simmons (8-1) -- at Louisiana College (6-3)
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1) -- at Millikin (4-5)
Montclair St. (8-1) -- at Wm. Paterson (4-5)
* Rowan (8-1) -- at New Jersey (5-4)
* Cortland (8-1) -- vs. Ithaca (6-3)
Pacific Lutheran (7-1) -- vs. Willamette (7-2)
Ohio Northern (8-1) -- vs. Heidelberg (5-4)
Hampden-Sydney (8-1) -- vs. Randolph-Macon (7-2)
Coe (8-1) -- at Cornell (0-9)
Redlands (7-1) -- vs. Chapman (4-4)
Bethel (8-1) -- vs. Augsburg (4-5)
* Wittenberg (9-0) -- at Wooster (5-4)


I will go back and add SoS figures once all games go final since these numbers would be affected -- and if Pacific Lutheran and/or Redlands lose, I will delete accordingly.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 07, 2010, 01:45:34 AM
South
--------
Hampden-Sydney (8-1, 0.524 -- 0.523/0.527) -- vs. Randolph-Macon (7-2, 0.446)
Hardin-Simmons (8-1, 0.502 -- 0.492/0.523) -- at Louisiana College (6-3, 0.456)

North
-------
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1, 0.604 -- 0.614/0.583) -- at Millikin (4-5, 0.581)
Ohio Northern (8-1 (7-1 Region), 0.512 -- 0.508/0.521) -- vs. Heidelberg (5-4, 0.456)
* Wittenberg (9-0, 0.416 -- 0.365/0.517) -- at Wooster (5-4, 0.441)
** Wabash (7-2 (7-1 Region), 0.525 -- 0.552/0.472) -- vs. DePauw (9-0, 0.522)
** Washington U. (7-2 (4-1 Region), 0.442 -- 0.412/0.503) -- at Chicago (7-2, 0.530)

East
------
Montclair St. (8-1, 0.500 -- 0.493/0.515) -- at Wm. Paterson (4-5, 0.394)
* Rowan (8-1, 0.497 -- 0.486/0.518) -- at New Jersey (5-4, 0.408)
* Cortland (8-1, 0.491 -- 0.486/0.501) -- vs. Ithaca (6-3, 0.588)

West
-------
Coe (8-1 (6-1 Region), 0.543 -- 0.571/0.488) -- at Cornell (0-9, 0.535)
Bethel (8-1, 0.513 -- 0.493/0.552) -- vs. Augsburg (4-5, 0.479)
Redlands (7-1, 0.503 -- 0.481/0.547) -- vs. Chapman (4-4, 0.462)
Pacific Lutheran (7-1 (6-1 Region), 0.463 -- 0.438/0.514) -- vs. Willamette (7-2, 0.511)

* - Team May Still Win Its Conference's Pool A Bid
** - Team Included Since In-Region Record Includes Just One Loss

After Win/Loss Records are NCAA SoS -- OWP/OOWP -- Final Opponent (W/L, OWP of Final Opponent)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 07, 2010, 01:54:29 AM
I'm going to point out something for some thoughts here:

Look at Wabash.  If Wabash can beat DePauw next weekend, it has gained a quality win and will have an SoS of about 0.560 to go with it (which would currently be in the Top 30 nationally and second best among Pool C contenders).  Does the Committee honor the 7-1 In-Region record or the 7-2 Overall record here?  Doesn't Wabash deserve to be considered here?  Don't count Wabash out quite yet.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2010, 06:03:02 AM
I think it's clear they have looked at overall record already in ranking Wabash behind Witt entering last week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 07, 2010, 10:22:34 AM
But I thought rankings were based on regional records only.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2010, 03:01:56 PM
There's been a lot of discussion over the past couple of years that suggests that secondary criteria come into play pretty early for football since there are only 10 games total.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 07, 2010, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 07, 2010, 03:01:56 PM
There's been a lot of discussion over the past couple of years that suggests that secondary criteria come into play pretty early for football since there are only 10 games total.

I think I mentioned that somewhere earlier on this board when Frank mentioned something to the degree that secondary criteria was not at play this year.  I'll have to find it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 07, 2010, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 03, 2010, 05:49:46 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 03, 2010, 05:32:21 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 03, 2010, 05:20:40 PM
OK, SJF, you're getting screwed.  Using Primary Criteria (Secondary really not at play here):

W/L percentage is null
SoS is +SJF (0.009)
No head-to-head
Common opponents is +SJF (two bigger victories, one by like 30)
Regionally-Ranked Opponents is +ROW:  SJF loses to #9, beats #8; Rowan loses to #5, beats #4

To me, the SoS difference nullifies the RRO here (negligible differences in both directions).  For a Committee that won't pick 8-2 teams over 9-1 teams unless there are "direct links" between teams in the discussion, how aren't common opponents being considered as very important in this determination -- those are as close to direct links as you can get).


ehhhhh maybe if we are able to win on Saturday that will boost up our strength of schedule a little bit more while Rowan is playing a .500 team and a 1-7 team to round off their schedule....that should make their SoS go down. 



Hasn't the NCAA ignored their own criteria in the past though?

Ah yes here it was.  I guess they don't "ignore" the criteria.  Just off the top of my head it seems that the NCAA has used secondary criteria a lot to determine past pool C football spots.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 07, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
My guess at the eastern most bracket looks like this:

Mount Union
Delaware Valley
NJAC Pool A
SUNY-Maritime
NJAC Pool C
Alfred
NEFC Pool A
St. Lawrence

If Maine-Maritime wins the NEFC, the only teams they could play would be Cortland, Montclair or St. Lawrence (I think).  So they could end up in a 3-7 matchup with Alfred going up against Del Valley in their place.  I'll be rooting for Endicott and hoping that Cortland ends up with the 3 seed just so the band doesn't have to travel as far.  We'll know in one week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: FranElia on November 07, 2010, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 07, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
My guess at the eastern most bracket looks like this:

Mount Union
Delaware Valley
NJAC Pool A
SUNY-Maritime
NJAC Pool C
Alfred
NEFC Pool A
St. Lawrence

If Maine-Maritime wins the NEFC, the only teams they could play would be Cortland, Montclair or St. Lawrence (I think).  So they could end up in a 3-7 matchup with Alfred going up against Del Valley in their place.  I'll be rooting for Endicott and hoping that Cortland ends up with the 3 seed just so the band doesn't have to travel as far.  We'll know in one week.

From what I can tell, official distances from Maine Maritime are:
St. Lawrence - 432
SUNY Maritime - 443
Montclair St. - 465
Delaware Valley - 537
Rowan - 557
Cortland - 578
Alfred - 673
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 07, 2010, 10:15:59 PM
I could see a "maritime bowl" or Maine travelling to a NJAC school - they did so vs. Montclair last year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 07, 2010, 11:08:39 PM
Quote from: franelia on November 07, 2010, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 07, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
My guess at the eastern most bracket looks like this:

Mount Union
Delaware Valley
NJAC Pool A
SUNY-Maritime
NJAC Pool C
Alfred
NEFC Pool A
St. Lawrence

If Maine-Maritime wins the NEFC, the only teams they could play would be Cortland, Montclair or St. Lawrence (I think).  So they could end up in a 3-7 matchup with Alfred going up against Del Valley in their place.  I'll be rooting for Endicott and hoping that Cortland ends up with the 3 seed just so the band doesn't have to travel as far.  We'll know in one week.

From what I can tell, official distances from Maine Maritime are:
St. Lawrence - 432
SUNY Maritime - 443
Montclair St. - 465
Delaware Valley - 537
Rowan - 557
Cortland - 578
Alfred - 673


That would be some bus ride between Maine Maritime and St. Lawrence! 10 hours of hell, may have to take the shortcut through Canada. Watch out, MOOSE!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 08, 2010, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: franelia on November 07, 2010, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 07, 2010, 06:26:35 PM
My guess at the eastern most bracket looks like this:

Mount Union
Delaware Valley
NJAC Pool A
SUNY-Maritime
NJAC Pool C
Alfred
NEFC Pool A
St. Lawrence

If Maine-Maritime wins the NEFC, the only teams they could play would be Cortland, Montclair or St. Lawrence (I think).  So they could end up in a 3-7 matchup with Alfred going up against Del Valley in their place.  I'll be rooting for Endicott and hoping that Cortland ends up with the 3 seed just so the band doesn't have to travel as far.  We'll know in one week.

From what I can tell, official distances from Maine Maritime are:
St. Lawrence - 432
SUNY Maritime - 443
Montclair St. - 465
Delaware Valley - 537
Rowan - 557
Cortland - 578
Alfred - 673

Didn't realize Cortland was that far away from MME.  I think a lot of teams will be rooting for Endicott this week or two of the lower seeded teams could end up playing each other.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 08, 2010, 04:27:48 PM
Amended Pool C Numbers (Trine did not clinch in the MIAA, Wash. U. was wrongly placed in the North and Opponents' Reg. Records are included, when different).  I will add Quality Wins/Losses on Wednesday night:

South
--------
Hampden-Sydney (8-1, 0.524 -- 0.523/0.527) -- vs. Randolph-Macon (7-2, 0.446)
Hardin-Simmons (8-1, 0.502 -- 0.492/0.523) -- at Louisiana Col. (6-3 (6-2 Reg.), 0.456)
** Washington U. (7-2 (4-1 Reg.), 0.442 -- 0.412/0.503) -- at Chicago (7-2, 0.530)

North
-------
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1, 0.604 -- 0.614/0.583) -- at Millikin (4-5, 0.581)
Ohio Northern (8-1 (7-1 Reg.), 0.512 -- 0.508/0.521) -- vs. Heidelberg (5-4, 0.456)
* Wittenberg (9-0, 0.416 -- 0.365/0.517) -- at Wooster (5-4 (5-3 Reg.), 0.441)
* Trine (9-0 (8-0 Reg.), 0.379 -- 0.311/0.515) -- vs. Albion (5-4 (5-2 Reg.), 0.446)
** Wabash (7-2 (7-1 Reg.), 0.525 -- 0.552/0.472) -- vs. DePauw (9-0, 0.522)

East
------
Montclair St. (8-1, 0.500 -- 0.493/0.515) -- at Wm. Paterson (4-5, 0.394)
* Rowan (8-1, 0.497 -- 0.486/0.518) -- at New Jersey (5-4, 0.408)
* Cortland (8-1, 0.491 -- 0.486/0.501) -- vs. Ithaca (6-3, 0.588)

West
-------
Coe (8-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.543 -- 0.571/0.488) -- at Cornell (0-9, 0.535)
Bethel (8-1, 0.513 -- 0.493/0.552) -- vs. Augsburg (4-5, 0.479)
Redlands (7-1, 0.503 -- 0.481/0.547) -- vs. Chapman (4-4 (4-2 Reg.), 0.462)
Pac. Luth. (7-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.463 -- 0.438/0.514) -- vs. Willamette (7-2 (5-2 Reg.), 0.511)

* - Team May Still Win Its Conference's Pool A Bid
** - Team Included Since In-Reg. Record Includes Just One Loss

After Win/Loss Records are NCAA SoS -- OWP/OOWP -- Final Opponent (W/L, OWP of Final Opponent).  If Regional Record differs, a second W/L record is in inner parentheses, indicated with "Reg."

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 10, 2010, 03:12:02 PM
^ I think so too.  They moved North Central behind Mount to allow Whitewater to be separated from St Thomas by the Warhawks being the #1 in the North and Mount the #1 in the East.

Interesting how #2 NCC can beat the North's #1 ranked team (Wheaton), #3 Mount can beat the North's 6th ranked team (Baldwin Wallace) and Mount jumps North Central. 

If the plan is to move Mount east, I'm not sure what makes St Thomas a better option in the West than NCC is in the North?  but is sure looks like they moved Mount & North Central around to justify that very thing.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 10, 2010, 03:12:29 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!

Funny how that works out.  I cannot remember whether it was North Central as #1 and Wheaton #2 (or switched). But presumably, if the #1 team beats the #2 ranked team in the region, you wouldn't figure that they would drop to #2 behind the #3 (MUC) ranked team.  You also wouldn't expect that if the #2 ranked team beat the #1 ranked team in the region that the #3 ranked team would jump to #1.

Either way...MUC deserves to be #1, and the fact that they weren't right from the get go shows how stupid/lazy the previous regional rankings were.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!

exactly...the ncaa has ZERO credibility in my book anymore. The more this evolves every year the more it appears that its a 3 card monte game.... Rankings mean very little w/ the ncaa and during the last week we toss all the cards up in the air and arrange the way we want and tie it up in a nice little bow...Used to think we had a true national champion in d3 football, not so anymore. As well as why play regular season games when in reality they mean very little as the selection committee selects/puts teams where they want not on merit.  *** This is PBR taking over the negative thoughts for not so negative LD... ***
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

btw pat your time stamps/clock is off on the regional rankings page...looks like you guys forgot to turn the clocks back...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 04:41:53 PM
Updated with Quality Wins & Quality Losses:

South
--------
Hampden-Sydney (8-1, 0.524 -- 0.523/0.527) -- vs. Randolph-Macon (7-2, 0.446) -- QW: 8S, QL: 6S
Hardin-Simmons (8-1, 0.502 -- 0.492/0.523) -- at Louisiana Col. (6-3 (6-2 Reg.), 0.456) -- QL: 2S
** Washington U. (7-2 (4-1 Reg.), 0.442 -- 0.412/0.503) -- at Chicago (7-2, 0.530) -- QW: 10N, QL: 5N

North
-------
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1, 0.604 -- 0.614/0.583) -- at Millikin (4-5, 0.581) -- QW: 8N, QL: 2N
Ohio Northern (8-1 (7-1 Reg.), 0.512 -- 0.508/0.521) -- vs. Heidelberg (5-4, 0.456) -- QW: 9N, QL: 1N
* Wittenberg (9-0, 0.416 -- 0.365/0.517) -- at Wooster (5-4 (5-3 Reg.), 0.441) -- QW: 10N
* Trine (9-0 (8-0 Reg.), 0.379 -- 0.311/0.515) -- vs. Albion (5-4 (5-2 Reg.), 0.446) -- No QW/QL
** Wabash (7-2 (7-1 Reg.), 0.525 -- 0.552/0.472) -- vs. DePauw (9-0, 0.522) -- QL: 5N

East
------
Montclair St. (8-1, 0.500 -- 0.493/0.515) -- at Wm. Paterson (4-5, 0.394) -- QW: 2E, QL: 4E
* Rowan (8-1, 0.497 -- 0.486/0.518) -- at New Jersey (5-4, 0.408) -- QW: 4E, QL: 3E
* Cortland (8-1, 0.491 -- 0.486/0.501) -- vs. Ithaca (6-3, 0.588) -- QW: 3E, QL: 2E

West
-------
Coe (8-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.543 -- 0.571/0.488) -- at Cornell (0-9, 0.535) -- QW: 10W, QL: 3W
Bethel (8-1, 0.513 -- 0.493/0.552) -- vs. Augsburg (4-5, 0.479) -- QL: 1W
Redlands (7-1, 0.503 -- 0.481/0.547) -- vs. Chapman (4-4 (4-2 Reg.), 0.462) -- QL: 4W
Pac. Luth. (7-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.463 -- 0.438/0.514) -- vs. Willamette (7-2 (5-2 Reg.), 0.511) -- QW: 4W, QL 7W

* - Team May Still Win Its Conference's Pool A Bid
** - Team Included Since In-Reg. Record Includes Just One Loss

After Win/Loss Records are NCAA SoS -- OWP/OOWP -- Final Opponent (W/L, OWP of Final Opponent) -- Quality Wins (QW) (with ranking and region of the team), Quality Losses (QL).  If Regional Record for team or opponent differs, a second W/L record is in inner parentheses, indicated with "Reg."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 10, 2010, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!

exactly...the ncaa has ZERO credibility in my book anymore. The more this evolves every year the more it appears that its a 3 card monte game.... Rankings mean very little w/ the ncaa and during the last week we toss all the cards up in the air and arrange the way we want and tie it up in a nice little bow...Used to think we had a true national champion in d3 football, not so anymore. As well as why play regular season games when in reality they mean very little as the selection committee selects/puts teams where they want not on merit.  *** This is PBR taking over the negative thoughts for not so negative LD... ***

I don't agree with the NCAA's rankings either, but the "no true champion" thing is a little in left field.  The question we're arguing about is ultimately where the games are played, not which 2 teams get to play for a mythical title.  It's too bad D1 doesn't have a playoff like D3 does with AQ's and at-large bids.   While our system is not perfect and some teams get screwed by playing on the road or a good 2nd place team might get screwed out of a Pool C bid for a lesser team with better numbers, but at least the teams get to decide it on the field.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 10, 2010, 07:38:29 PM
All this stuff is nutty. The Regional Rankings are what they are. ::) OWP, OOWP. ??? By looking at that, Montclair should be #2, but the final story will start to unfold on Saturday night. There will be (3) NJAC teams most likley tied and someone will screwed. MU by some miracle is now #1 in the North. It appears the NCAA is playing their 3 card monty game to get MU in the east and UWW in the North. I could be wrong but we will see. HScoach says it best, the D3 playoff system gives you a true National Champ. I would like to get rid of all the politics, but I really love D3 Football. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2010, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!

exactly...the ncaa has ZERO credibility in my book anymore. The more this evolves every year the more it appears that its a 3 card monte game.... Rankings mean very little w/ the ncaa and during the last week we toss all the cards up in the air and arrange the way we want and tie it up in a nice little bow...Used to think we had a true national champion in d3 football, not so anymore. As well as why play regular season games when in reality they mean very little as the selection committee selects/puts teams where they want not on merit.  *** This is PBR taking over the negative thoughts for not so negative LD... ***

I don't agree with the NCAA's rankings either, but the "no true champion" thing is a little in left field.  The question we're arguing about is ultimately where the games are played, not which 2 teams get to play for a mythical title.  It's too bad D1 doesn't have a playoff like D3 does with AQ's and at-large bids.   While our system is not perfect and some teams get screwed by playing on the road or a good 2nd place team might get screwed out of a Pool C bid for a lesser team with better numbers, but at least the teams get to decide it on the field.

OR some teams get completely screwed out of playing for the national championship that should be in the tournament....thus my point of not having the best teams play in the tournament and a mythical champion....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2010, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!

exactly...the ncaa has ZERO credibility in my book anymore. The more this evolves every year the more it appears that its a 3 card monte game.... Rankings mean very little w/ the ncaa and during the last week we toss all the cards up in the air and arrange the way we want and tie it up in a nice little bow...Used to think we had a true national champion in d3 football, not so anymore. As well as why play regular season games when in reality they mean very little as the selection committee selects/puts teams where they want not on merit.  *** This is PBR taking over the negative thoughts for not so negative LD... ***

I don't agree with the NCAA's rankings either, but the "no true champion" thing is a little in left field.  The question we're arguing about is ultimately where the games are played, not which 2 teams get to play for a mythical title.  It's too bad D1 doesn't have a playoff like D3 does with AQ's and at-large bids.   While our system is not perfect and some teams get screwed by playing on the road or a good 2nd place team might get screwed out of a Pool C bid for a lesser team with better numbers, but at least the teams get to decide it on the field.

OR some teams get completely screwed out of playing for the national championship that should be in the tournament....thus my point of not having the best teams play in the tournament and a mythical champion....

With 32 teams (albeit 12-15 who stand no real chance of even making the 3rd round), I seriously doubt any team with a realistic chance of a title will ever get left out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 10, 2010, 09:30:19 PM
Mr. Ypsi, i agree.  someone will get screwed because there are some deserving teams that wont get in, but would they have realistically had a chance to win it all.  probably not.  still it has been a good discussion to follow, with some very good points. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:14:27 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 10, 2010, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 10, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/

What did they read our b!tching about Mount Union being 3rd in the North last week?  North Central wins handily over Wheaton and Mount Union jumps them?  Interesting...  Looks like the chess pieces are now in place!

exactly...the ncaa has ZERO credibility in my book anymore. The more this evolves every year the more it appears that its a 3 card monte game.... Rankings mean very little w/ the ncaa and during the last week we toss all the cards up in the air and arrange the way we want and tie it up in a nice little bow...Used to think we had a true national champion in d3 football, not so anymore. As well as why play regular season games when in reality they mean very little as the selection committee selects/puts teams where they want not on merit.  *** This is PBR taking over the negative thoughts for not so negative LD... ***

I don't agree with the NCAA's rankings either, but the "no true champion" thing is a little in left field.  The question we're arguing about is ultimately where the games are played, not which 2 teams get to play for a mythical title.  It's too bad D1 doesn't have a playoff like D3 does with AQ's and at-large bids.   While our system is not perfect and some teams get screwed by playing on the road or a good 2nd place team might get screwed out of a Pool C bid for a lesser team with better numbers, but at least the teams get to decide it on the field.

OR some teams get completely screwed out of playing for the national championship that should be in the tournament....thus my point of not having the best teams play in the tournament and a mythical champion....

With 32 teams (albeit 12-15 who stand no real chance of even making the 3rd round), I seriously doubt any team with a realistic chance of a title will ever get left out.

plenty of examples that say otherwise...seems in your view we should just cut it down to a 16 team field and save everyone the time/money and just play those teams? how about we cancel the regular season, since it doesnt seem to mean anything in the selection committee's eyes. 1 lower ranked team cannot get hot and make a run? njac most likely has a team that could make a run in the playoffs no? my point is d3 national champion is going the way of the ncaa d1 national champion....who knows maybe that is what the ncaa wants in reality....such is life
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:36:05 PM
wesleydad,

And don't get me wrong, there may even be teams left out that could have made a run (just two years ago, Wheaton unexpectedly 'snuck in' as almost certainly the last pool C, then won the 'north' from the 8 seed!), but I just can't see a realistic Salem team not getting in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 10, 2010, 09:45:54 PM
Plenty of examples?  I'm not too sure about that.  I'd like to see how you think has been left out and could have won the D3 national championship
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:48:19 PM
PBR,

A bit over the top, are we?! ;D

I said I doubted a realistic title contender will ever be left out BECAUSE it is a 32-team tourney, so, no, I'm not advocating returning to 16 teams. :P

And I already provided an example of a team that almost got left out, yet made the semi-finals.

But I'd sure like to hear a list of the 'plenty of examples' of teams who didn't make the tourney who had any realistic chance at the Stagg. ;)

[The only one I can think of who MIGHT have had a chance (IF everyone healed in time) was NCC last year.  A season opening loss to ONU, combined with a loss to my IWU team when decimated with injuries (even I think they would have won by 3 TDs if healthy) cost them a bid.  But UWW was brought 'north' last year, so they still would have had to win in Whitewater to reach the 3rd or 4th round.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 11:21:31 PM
Predicted SoS, Quality Wins & Quality Losses for Pool C candidates (these are the criteria that matter in the NCAA's decisions for ordering of Pool C candidates and selection of one of the four teams on the board, one from each region):

South
--------
Hampden-Sydney (8-1, 0.524) -- Predicted SoS: 0.539 (0.549/0.519) -- QW: 8S, QL: 6S
Hardin-Simmons (8-1, 0.502) -- Predicted SoS: 0.517 (0.518/0.516) -- QL: 2S
** Washington U. (7-2 (4-1 Reg.), 0.442) -- Predicted SoS: 0.484 (0.473/0.507) -- QW: 10N, QL: 5N

North
-------
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1, 0.604) -- Predicted SoS: 0.592 (0.597/0.583) -- QW: 8N, QL: 2N
Ohio Northern (8-1 (7-1 Reg.), 0.512) -- Predicted SoS: 0.513 (0.513/0.513) -- QW: 9N, QL: 1N
* Wittenberg (9-0, 0.416) -- Predicted SoS: 0.430 (0.391/0.509) -- QW: 10N
* Trine (9-0 (8-0 Reg.), 0.379) -- Predicted SoS: 0.406 (0.356/0.507) -- No QW/QL
** Wabash (7-2 (7-1 Reg.), 0.525) -- Predicted SoS: 0.561 (0.602/0.478) -- QL: 5N

East
------
* Cortland (8-1, 0.491) -- Predicted SoS: 0.506 (0.504/0.510) -- QW: 3E, QL: 2E
* Rowan (8-1, 0.497) -- Predicted SoS: 0.498 (0.493/0.507) -- QW: 4E, QL: 3E
Montclair St. (8-1, 0.500) -- Predicted SoS: 0.493 (0.488/0.503) -- QW: 2E, QL: 4E

West
-------
Redlands (7-1, 0.503) -- Predicted SoS: 0.514 (0.502/0.538) -- QL: 4W
Bethel (8-1, 0.513) -- Predicted SoS: 0.507 (0.488/0.545) -- QL: 1W
Coe (8-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.543) -- Predicted SoS: 0.498 (0.500/0.494) -- QW: 10W, QL: 3W
Pac. Luth. (7-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.463) -- Predicted SoS: 0.487 (0.473/0.514) -- QW: 4W, QL 7W

* - Team May Still Win Its Conference's Pool A Bid
** - Team Included Since In-Reg. Record Includes Just One Loss (Note that other two-loss teams may be ahead of these teams in the Regional Rankings)

After Win/Loss Records are NCAA SoS -- Predicted SoS (Predicted OWP/Predicted OOWP) -- Quality Wins (QW) (with ranking and region of the team), Quality Losses (QL).  If Regional Record for team or opponent differs, a second W/L record is in inner parentheses, indicated with "Reg."

NOTE: These numbers should be used carefully, as wins and losses by opponents already played will cause SoS figures to change, sometimes by as much as 0.040 this late in the season.  These numbers are merely estimates and take into account only games played to this date and the remaining opponents' W/L % and OWP figures.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 10, 2010, 11:33:11 PM
Frank,
I would like to steal this for ATN, because it's basically the exact thing I would have done, except you have typed it all out already. lol.

Point me toward your NJAC analysis please, I want to know how you got what you got. Not that I can't figure it out, I just haven't thought much about that one since recording the podcast on Sunday. So I forget what I think, but I wrote it down! :)

Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 04:41:53 PM
Updated with Quality Wins & Quality Losses:

South
--------
Hampden-Sydney (8-1, 0.524 -- 0.523/0.527) -- vs. Randolph-Macon (7-2, 0.446) -- QW: 8S, QL: 6S
Hardin-Simmons (8-1, 0.502 -- 0.492/0.523) -- at Louisiana Col. (6-3 (6-2 Reg.), 0.456) -- QL: 2S
** Washington U. (7-2 (4-1 Reg.), 0.442 -- 0.412/0.503) -- at Chicago (7-2, 0.530) -- QW: 10N, QL: 5N

North
-------
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1, 0.604 -- 0.614/0.583) -- at Millikin (4-5, 0.581) -- QW: 8N, QL: 2N
Ohio Northern (8-1 (7-1 Reg.), 0.512 -- 0.508/0.521) -- vs. Heidelberg (5-4, 0.456) -- QW: 9N, QL: 1N
* Wittenberg (9-0, 0.416 -- 0.365/0.517) -- at Wooster (5-4 (5-3 Reg.), 0.441) -- QW: 10N
* Trine (9-0 (8-0 Reg.), 0.379 -- 0.311/0.515) -- vs. Albion (5-4 (5-2 Reg.), 0.446) -- No QW/QL
** Wabash (7-2 (7-1 Reg.), 0.525 -- 0.552/0.472) -- vs. DePauw (9-0, 0.522) -- QL: 5N

East
------
Montclair St. (8-1, 0.500 -- 0.493/0.515) -- at Wm. Paterson (4-5, 0.394) -- QW: 2E, QL: 4E
* Rowan (8-1, 0.497 -- 0.486/0.518) -- at New Jersey (5-4, 0.408) -- QW: 4E, QL: 3E
* Cortland (8-1, 0.491 -- 0.486/0.501) -- vs. Ithaca (6-3, 0.588) -- QW: 3E, QL: 2E

West
-------
Coe (8-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.543 -- 0.571/0.488) -- at Cornell (0-9, 0.535) -- QW: 10W, QL: 3W
Bethel (8-1, 0.513 -- 0.493/0.552) -- vs. Augsburg (4-5, 0.479) -- QL: 1W
Redlands (7-1, 0.503 -- 0.481/0.547) -- vs. Chapman (4-4 (4-2 Reg.), 0.462) -- QL: 4W
Pac. Luth. (7-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.463 -- 0.438/0.514) -- vs. Willamette (7-2 (5-2 Reg.), 0.511) -- QW: 4W, QL 7W

* - Team May Still Win Its Conference's Pool A Bid
** - Team Included Since In-Reg. Record Includes Just One Loss

After Win/Loss Records are NCAA SoS -- OWP/OOWP -- Final Opponent (W/L, OWP of Final Opponent) -- Quality Wins (QW) (with ranking and region of the team), Quality Losses (QL).  If Regional Record for team or opponent differs, a second W/L record is in inner parentheses, indicated with "Reg."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 11:39:25 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 10, 2010, 11:33:11 PM
Frank,
I would like to steal this for ATN, because it's basically the exact thing I would have done, except you have typed it all out already. lol.

Point me toward your NJAC analysis please, I want to know how you got what you got. Not that I can't figure it out, I just haven't thought much about that one since recording the podcast on Sunday. So I forget what I think, but I wrote it down! :)

Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 04:41:53 PM
Updated with Quality Wins & Quality Losses:

South
--------
Hampden-Sydney (8-1, 0.524 -- 0.523/0.527) -- vs. Randolph-Macon (7-2, 0.446) -- QW: 8S, QL: 6S
Hardin-Simmons (8-1, 0.502 -- 0.492/0.523) -- at Louisiana Col. (6-3 (6-2 Reg.), 0.456) -- QL: 2S
** Washington U. (7-2 (4-1 Reg.), 0.442 -- 0.412/0.503) -- at Chicago (7-2, 0.530) -- QW: 10N, QL: 5N

North
-------
Wheaton (Ill.) (8-1, 0.604 -- 0.614/0.583) -- at Millikin (4-5, 0.581) -- QW: 8N, QL: 2N
Ohio Northern (8-1 (7-1 Reg.), 0.512 -- 0.508/0.521) -- vs. Heidelberg (5-4, 0.456) -- QW: 9N, QL: 1N
* Wittenberg (9-0, 0.416 -- 0.365/0.517) -- at Wooster (5-4 (5-3 Reg.), 0.441) -- QW: 10N
* Trine (9-0 (8-0 Reg.), 0.379 -- 0.311/0.515) -- vs. Albion (5-4 (5-2 Reg.), 0.446) -- No QW/QL
** Wabash (7-2 (7-1 Reg.), 0.525 -- 0.552/0.472) -- vs. DePauw (9-0, 0.522) -- QL: 5N

East
------
Montclair St. (8-1, 0.500 -- 0.493/0.515) -- at Wm. Paterson (4-5, 0.394) -- QW: 2E, QL: 4E
* Rowan (8-1, 0.497 -- 0.486/0.518) -- at New Jersey (5-4, 0.408) -- QW: 4E, QL: 3E
* Cortland (8-1, 0.491 -- 0.486/0.501) -- vs. Ithaca (6-3, 0.588) -- QW: 3E, QL: 2E

West
-------
Coe (8-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.543 -- 0.571/0.488) -- at Cornell (0-9, 0.535) -- QW: 10W, QL: 3W
Bethel (8-1, 0.513 -- 0.493/0.552) -- vs. Augsburg (4-5, 0.479) -- QL: 1W
Redlands (7-1, 0.503 -- 0.481/0.547) -- vs. Chapman (4-4 (4-2 Reg.), 0.462) -- QL: 4W
Pac. Luth. (7-1 (6-1 Reg.), 0.463 -- 0.438/0.514) -- vs. Willamette (7-2 (5-2 Reg.), 0.511) -- QW: 4W, QL 7W

* - Team May Still Win Its Conference's Pool A Bid
** - Team Included Since In-Reg. Record Includes Just One Loss

After Win/Loss Records are NCAA SoS -- OWP/OOWP -- Final Opponent (W/L, OWP of Final Opponent) -- Quality Wins (QW) (with ranking and region of the team), Quality Losses (QL).  If Regional Record for team or opponent differs, a second W/L record is in inner parentheses, indicated with "Reg."

My NJAC analysis, proving why Cortland wins the OOWP, is in the NJAC PP from Saturday night.  You can't miss it.  (Note:  You might wanna dump the ** teams since some two-loss teams are already being placed ahead in the Reg. Rankings of these teams)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
Using the predicted SoS and QW/QL listings, here is how I would line up the board for each region:

South: 1) Hampden-Sydney; 2) Hardin-Simmons; 3) Ursinus (Using Reg. Rankings and assuming Salisbury goes through Pool B)

North: 1) Wheaton; 2) Ohio Northern; 3) Illinois Wesleyan (or Wittenberg/Trine if a loss occurs)

East: 1) Rowan; 2) Montclair; 3) Springfield (I know the first two are troublesome, but the Committee may use the "last quarter of the season" principle to justify this ordering over the head-to-head in Week 2)

West: 1) Bethel; 2) Redlands; 3) Coe (Based on the "better" quality loss Bethel had)

And when they go to picking:

1) Wheaton
2) Hampden-Sydney
3) Ohio Northern
4) Hardin-Simmons
5) Bethel
6) Rowan
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: K-Mack on November 11, 2010, 12:37:57 AM
Good look Frank.

I'm trying not to look at the above because I want to do the same thing and see if I come up with the same six.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 11, 2010, 08:06:17 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
Using the predicted SoS and QW/QL listings, here is how I would line up the board for each region:

South: 1) Hampden-Sydney; 2) Hardin-Simmons; 3) Ursinus (Using Reg. Rankings and assuming Salisbury goes through Pool B)

North: 1) Wheaton; 2) Ohio Northern; 3) Illinois Wesleyan (or Wittenberg/Trine if a loss occurs)

East: 1) Rowan; 2) Montclair; 3) Springfield (I know the first two are troublesome, but the Committee may use the "last quarter of the season" principle to justify this ordering over the head-to-head in Week 2)

West: 1) Bethel; 2) Redlands; 3) Coe (Based on the "better" quality loss Bethel had)

And when they go to picking:

1) Wheaton
2) Hampden-Sydney
3) Ohio Northern
4) Hardin-Simmons
5) Bethel
6) Rowan


if verifies...ouch for montclair fans
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 11, 2010, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 11, 2010, 08:06:17 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 11:42:05 PM
Using the predicted SoS and QW/QL listings, here is how I would line up the board for each region:

South: 1) Hampden-Sydney; 2) Hardin-Simmons; 3) Ursinus (Using Reg. Rankings and assuming Salisbury goes through Pool B)

North: 1) Wheaton; 2) Ohio Northern; 3) Illinois Wesleyan (or Wittenberg/Trine if a loss occurs)

East: 1) Rowan; 2) Montclair; 3) Springfield (I know the first two are troublesome, but the Committee may use the "last quarter of the season" principle to justify this ordering over the head-to-head in Week 2)

West: 1) Bethel; 2) Redlands; 3) Coe (Based on the "better" quality loss Bethel had)

And when they go to picking:

1) Wheaton
2) Hampden-Sydney
3) Ohio Northern
4) Hardin-Simmons
5) Bethel
6) Rowan


if verifies...ouch for montclair fans

You can't fight politics, all you can do is take care of business this Saturday and let the cards fall where they may. I will reserve my comments until then. I hope the NCAA does the right thing. Time will tell.  ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:38:13 PM
Politics?  So looking at all the analysis, what makes anyone think that the 3rd team in the NJAC deserves to be in before...........pick one?

I think we are talking about frog hair between certain teams........SHOULD a 9-1 team get shut out from the play-offs?  Probably not, but they are getting shut out (if it happens) by OTHER 9-1 teams.  It's hard to imagine/calculate/determine who/what/where. 

I know if it were my team, I would be raising all kinds of hell about being screwed. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:38:13 PM
Politics?  So looking at all the analysis, what makes anyone think that the 3rd team in the NJAC deserves to be in before...........pick one?

I think we are talking about frog hair between certain teams........SHOULD a 9-1 team get shut out from the play-offs?  Probably not, but they are getting shut out (if it happens) by OTHER 9-1 teams.  It's hard to imagine/calculate/determine who/what/where. 

I know if it were my team, I would be raising all kinds of hell about being screwed. 

The point is Montclair beat Rowan, the team that would get in ahead of them.  In many people's mind, Head to head is much more important than some mathematically computed number. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:38:13 PM
Politics?  So looking at all the analysis, what makes anyone think that the 3rd team in the NJAC deserves to be in before...........pick one?

I think we are talking about frog hair between certain teams........SHOULD a 9-1 team get shut out from the play-offs?  Probably not, but they are getting shut out (if it happens) by OTHER 9-1 teams.  It's hard to imagine/calculate/determine who/what/where. 

I know if it were my team, I would be raising all kinds of hell about being screwed. 

The point is Montclair beat Rowan, the team that would get in ahead of them.  In many people's mind, Head to head is much more important than some mathematically computed number. 

Ohhh....crap!  DUH!  As a Montclair fan, that would drive me completely insane!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:48:09 PM
It'll be interesting to see how the NCAA handles this situation. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 11, 2010, 10:49:46 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:38:13 PM
Politics?  So looking at all the analysis, what makes anyone think that the 3rd team in the NJAC deserves to be in before...........pick one?

I think we are talking about frog hair between certain teams........SHOULD a 9-1 team get shut out from the play-offs?  Probably not, but they are getting shut out (if it happens) by OTHER 9-1 teams.  It's hard to imagine/calculate/determine who/what/where. 

I know if it were my team, I would be raising all kinds of hell about being screwed. 

The point is Montclair beat Rowan, the team that would get in ahead of them.  In many people's mind, Head to head is much more important than some mathematically computed number. 

Ohhh....crap!  DUH!  As a Montclair fan, that would drive me completely insane!
.
Then Rowan beat Cortland. Cortland beat Montclair.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:54:59 PM
Quote from: JT on November 11, 2010, 10:49:46 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:38:13 PM
Politics?  So looking at all the analysis, what makes anyone think that the 3rd team in the NJAC deserves to be in before...........pick one?

I think we are talking about frog hair between certain teams........SHOULD a 9-1 team get shut out from the play-offs?  Probably not, but they are getting shut out (if it happens) by OTHER 9-1 teams.  It's hard to imagine/calculate/determine who/what/where. 

I know if it were my team, I would be raising all kinds of hell about being screwed. 

The point is Montclair beat Rowan, the team that would get in ahead of them.  In many people's mind, Head to head is much more important than some mathematically computed number. 

Ohhh....crap!  DUH!  As a Montclair fan, that would drive me completely insane!
.
Then Rowan beat Cortland. Cortland beat Montclair.  

In logical situations and tiebreakers, the team that won the head to head would go. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 11, 2010, 11:17:03 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:54:59 PM
Quote from: JT on November 11, 2010, 10:49:46 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 11, 2010, 10:38:13 PM
Politics?  So looking at all the analysis, what makes anyone think that the 3rd team in the NJAC deserves to be in before...........pick one?

I think we are talking about frog hair between certain teams........SHOULD a 9-1 team get shut out from the play-offs?  Probably not, but they are getting shut out (if it happens) by OTHER 9-1 teams.  It's hard to imagine/calculate/determine who/what/where. 

I know if it were my team, I would be raising all kinds of hell about being screwed. 

The point is Montclair beat Rowan, the team that would get in ahead of them.  In many people's mind, Head to head is much more important than some mathematically computed number. 

Ohhh....crap!  DUH!  As a Montclair fan, that would drive me completely insane!
.
Then Rowan beat Cortland. Cortland beat Montclair.  

In logical situations and tiebreakers, the team that won the head to head would go. 

I think the team that beat the team that beat the team, is most logical.   Montclair didn't take care of business.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 11, 2010, 11:19:13 PM
Neither did Rowan when they lost to Montclair.  The most DIRECT comparison we have is the head to head.  In any other situation MSU would win this argument based on their victory over Rowan. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 12, 2010, 07:12:29 AM
Since no one can decide whether Rowan or Montclair is most deserving to go the playoffs, I'll settle this the same way I do at home when my boys are fighting over something:

YOU'RE DRIVING ME NUTS WITH ALL THIS ARGUING!  SINCE YOU BOTH HAVE ACTED LIKE YOUR 5, YOU BOTH CAN JUST STAY HOME.   ;)



In my mind, the team that gets the AQ gets removed from the equation and then it becomes a head-to-head decision between the 2 teams left. 


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 12, 2010, 07:52:12 AM
Everyone is assuming that Cortland won the NJAC. Not so. Saturday must be played out. As  Montclair fan and how things appear to be playing out, yes I'm pissed. >:(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 12, 2010, 08:15:18 AM
Head to Head should always rule out, sorry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:48:19 PM
PBR,

A bit over the top, are we?! ;D

I said I doubted a realistic title contender will ever be left out BECAUSE it is a 32-team tourney, so, no, I'm not advocating returning to 16 teams. :P

And I already provided an example of a team that almost got left out, yet made the semi-finals.

But I'd sure like to hear a list of the 'plenty of examples' of teams who didn't make the tourney who had any realistic chance at the Stagg. ;)

[The only one I can think of who MIGHT have had a chance (IF everyone healed in time) was NCC last year.  A season opening loss to ONU, combined with a loss to my IWU team when decimated with injuries (even I think they would have won by 3 TDs if healthy) cost them a bid.  But UWW was brought 'north' last year, so they still would have had to win in Whitewater to reach the 3rd or 4th round.]

every team has a chance...in fact they all have the same chance. didn't think the math would be that difficult for you... :P   problem is by advocating teams to play all cupcakes on their schedules within a few years you will have a plethora of teams at 9-1 and 10-0. Selection committee will have no idea who is for real and have to make an educated guess (even more than they do currently) you will have numerous teams that are deserving of an appearance being left out because of the way the selection committee fills its brackets...everyone loses...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 12, 2010, 09:56:36 AM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:48:19 PM
PBR,

A bit over the top, are we?! ;D

I said I doubted a realistic title contender will ever be left out BECAUSE it is a 32-team tourney, so, no, I'm not advocating returning to 16 teams. :P

And I already provided an example of a team that almost got left out, yet made the semi-finals.

But I'd sure like to hear a list of the 'plenty of examples' of teams who didn't make the tourney who had any realistic chance at the Stagg. ;)

[The only one I can think of who MIGHT have had a chance (IF everyone healed in time) was NCC last year.  A season opening loss to ONU, combined with a loss to my IWU team when decimated with injuries (even I think they would have won by 3 TDs if healthy) cost them a bid.  But UWW was brought 'north' last year, so they still would have had to win in Whitewater to reach the 3rd or 4th round.]

every team has a chance...in fact they all have the same chance. didn't think the math would be that difficult for you... :P   problem is by advocating teams to play all cupcakes on their schedules within a few years you will have a plethora of teams at 9-1 and 10-0. Selection committee will have no idea who is for real and have to make an educated guess (even more than they do currently) you will have numerous teams that are deserving of an appearance being left out because of the way the selection committee fills its brackets...everyone loses...

Sorry, but chance doesn't work in Sports.  This isn't rolling a die.  Not all sides are equal.  Not everyone has the equal "Chance to win."  St. Lawrence's chance to win is much smaller than Mount Union's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 12, 2010, 09:56:36 AM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 08:22:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 09:48:19 PM
PBR,

A bit over the top, are we?! ;D

I said I doubted a realistic title contender will ever be left out BECAUSE it is a 32-team tourney, so, no, I'm not advocating returning to 16 teams. :P

And I already provided an example of a team that almost got left out, yet made the semi-finals.

But I'd sure like to hear a list of the 'plenty of examples' of teams who didn't make the tourney who had any realistic chance at the Stagg. ;)

[The only one I can think of who MIGHT have had a chance (IF everyone healed in time) was NCC last year.  A season opening loss to ONU, combined with a loss to my IWU team when decimated with injuries (even I think they would have won by 3 TDs if healthy) cost them a bid.  But UWW was brought 'north' last year, so they still would have had to win in Whitewater to reach the 3rd or 4th round.]

every team has a chance...in fact they all have the same chance. didn't think the math would be that difficult for you... :P   problem is by advocating teams to play all cupcakes on their schedules within a few years you will have a plethora of teams at 9-1 and 10-0. Selection committee will have no idea who is for real and have to make an educated guess (even more than they do currently) you will have numerous teams that are deserving of an appearance being left out because of the way the selection committee fills its brackets...everyone loses...

Sorry, but chance doesn't work in Sports.  This isn't rolling a die.  Not all sides are equal.  Not everyone has the equal "Chance to win."  St. Lawrence's chance to win is much smaller than Mount Union's

thanks for agreeing...correct they all have a chance to win
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa. It makes their job significantly easier by seeing what teams are pretenders and what are contenders. It also helps a school trying to make a name for itself by pushing a ranked team to the brink of a loss or actually beating them...i.e. fresno st. in college football...their motto is anywhere/anytime/anyplace. they will play anyone on the road, they are not afraid of scheduling good teams. By doing this you have a much better idea and examples of what teams did against good competition, and it takes a lot of the "what if" scenarios out of play. It also makes for great games during the season, that actually mean something. The fans as well as the ncaa and schools win. Who wouldn't like to see a dvc vs. ithaca during the season. Or wesley vs. hobart, union vs. tomas more or rpi vs. rowan...makes for interesting matchups you wouldn't normally see. granted travel/cost is a concern but to me you can easily set up 1 if not 2 good ooc games each season. Forget the creampuffs if you have 15-20 teams all at 10-0/9-1 trying to playoff spots and they all have played nobodies what good is that and it lends itself to guessing what team should get in w/ nothing done on merit. Plus factor in the blowouts that will occur regularly in the first rounds, everyone saying what a joke it is that team A got the playoff spot and team B didn't. How the tournament to decide a national champion isn't a real tournament to find the best team. Does everyone want to see 52-0 blowouts for ooc games? Personally I want to see good games during the season that mean something. I.E. DVC taking on salisbury/wesley in the ooc part of the season. This year DVC played washington&jeff/wesley.  What good is it if DVC plays tufts and amherst (couldn't resist sorry) and wins those games by a combined 100-0 score?

alright need a cold frosty beverage now...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 12, 2010, 11:54:19 AM
PBR - Who is it that you are pissing and moaning about?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa

Here's the problems with that:

1) Not all conferences have the freedom to schedule OOC games. It's harder for a school with eight or nine conference games to schedule tougher opponents because they're at the mercy of their conference. And some teams play the same OOC games each year. IC is always going to play Cortland, and has played Springfield (I think) every year, even when they were D-II or in some other conference. I doubt Fisher would want to give up Rochester

2) It's still a regional sport, and with economic times what they are, you can't expect a D-III school to adopt an "anyone, anytime, any place" attitude. It's not like Ithaca cut Huntington a check for coming to Butterfield in 2006. And considering the average attendance for a D-III game was under 1,900 according to the NCAA in 2009, the sport's not exactly making schools money. Fresno State would make a lot of money from attendance in big games they got at home, and probably got straight cash for going to certain places (like USC). Is it economically viable to do that? From a institution/department wide cost-benefit standpoint, is it worth it?

Even if you keep it in region, that still benefits teams in tougher regions. Del Valley and Wesley can only play so many teams.

Here's what you get when you add up 10- or 9-game schedules, conference games, traditional OOC rivalries and the regional component: Not many options for great OOC challenges. Sure, maybe the Wick could schedule Wesley and it was great when Fisher took on MUC. But I don't think there are a lot of ways for teams to, in a widespread manner, do that.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 12, 2010, 12:35:28 PM
QuoteI want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa.

dlip is with you 100% here pbr. To dlip this is a no-brainer. If dlip was a coach he would do everything in his power to schedule the best teams possible. dlip would not be happy and/or satisfied being 10-0, 9-1, 8-2 if he knew he played weak teams, especially if his team was in a weak conference. He would know that he did not do everything possible to test his team and provide them with the opportunity to be the best they could be.

Listen, dlip feels any team that is 10-0, 9-1, 8-2 has accomplished a great deal and should hold their heads up high. Yet, at the same time, records like this don't or shouldn't put you in a class with teams playing on a much higher level and should not give these teams legs up in the post-season. If one wants to be in the tourney go earn it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 12, 2010, 12:41:28 PM
And we can also look to RPI.  Has their weak non-conference schedule given them playoff spots they may not have deserved over the past 15 years?  I don't think so.

I think in theory PBR is right.  It could happen where a team may be left out because of their scheduling.  But pool A bids in general are more of a problem than that though I would think.

And we can't really compare basketball to football since there are 64 teams who make it.  If the NCAA had to pick 32 teams for the tourney, don't you think they would have to face some serious problems and teams might actually change their OCC because of where a computer might rank them?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa

Here's the problems with that:

1) Not all conferences have the freedom to schedule OOC games. It's harder for a school with eight or nine conference games to schedule tougher opponents because they're at the mercy of their conference. And some teams play the same OOC games each year. IC is always going to play Cortland, and has played Springfield (I think) every year, even when they were D-II or in some other conference. I doubt Fisher would want to give up Rochester

2) It's still a regional sport, and with economic times what they are, you can't expect a D-III school to adopt an "anyone, anytime, any place" attitude. It's not like Ithaca cut Huntington a check for coming to Butterfield in 2006. And considering the average attendance for a D-III game was under 1,900 according to the NCAA in 2009, the sport's not exactly making schools money. Fresno State would make a lot of money from attendance in big games they got at home, and probably got straight cash for going to certain places (like USC). Is it economically viable to do that? From a institution/department wide cost-benefit standpoint, is it worth it?

Even if you keep it in region, that still benefits teams in tougher regions. Del Valley and Wesley can only play so many teams.

Here's what you get when you add up 10- or 9-game schedules, conference games, traditional OOC rivalries and the regional component: Not many options for great OOC challenges. Sure, maybe the Wick could schedule Wesley and it was great when Fisher took on MUC. But I don't think there are a lot of ways for teams to, in a widespread manner, do that.



times change...used to have a HUGE turkey day cross town rivalry w/ a high school. regularly drew 15K to the game....everyone thought that game being played on thanksgiving day morning would go on forever like it had previously...well the state of pa. instituted state playoffs...guess what, game got moved to the regular season, and state playoffs took over. My point being is don't count on ithaca/cortland or other rivalries forever. New coaches come in/administrations etc....change the focus and some may decide that the game might not be worth playing....would like to play different teams/change focus to ncaa playoffs and not play a tough team at the end of the season/etc...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:01:16 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 12, 2010, 11:54:19 AM
PBR - Who is it that you are pissing and moaning about?

no one...just wasting time until the lamp is lit...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa

Here's the problems with that:

1) Not all conferences have the freedom to schedule OOC games. It's harder for a school with eight or nine conference games to schedule tougher opponents because they're at the mercy of their conference. And some teams play the same OOC games each year. IC is always going to play Cortland, and has played Springfield (I think) every year, even when they were D-II or in some other conference. I doubt Fisher would want to give up Rochester

2) It's still a regional sport, and with economic times what they are, you can't expect a D-III school to adopt an "anyone, anytime, any place" attitude. It's not like Ithaca cut Huntington a check for coming to Butterfield in 2006. And considering the average attendance for a D-III game was under 1,900 according to the NCAA in 2009, the sport's not exactly making schools money. Fresno State would make a lot of money from attendance in big games they got at home, and probably got straight cash for going to certain places (like USC). Is it economically viable to do that? From a institution/department wide cost-benefit standpoint, is it worth it?

Even if you keep it in region, that still benefits teams in tougher regions. Del Valley and Wesley can only play so many teams.

Here's what you get when you add up 10- or 9-game schedules, conference games, traditional OOC rivalries and the regional component: Not many options for great OOC challenges. Sure, maybe the Wick could schedule Wesley and it was great when Fisher took on MUC. But I don't think there are a lot of ways for teams to, in a widespread manner, do that.



times change...used to have a HUGE turkey day cross town rivalry w/ a high school. regularly drew 15K to the game....everyone thought that game being played on thanksgiving day morning would go on forever like it had previously...well the state of pa. instituted state playoffs...guess what, game got moved to the regular season, and state playoffs took over. My point being is don't count on ithaca/cortland or other rivalries forever. New coaches come in/administrations etc....change the focus and some may decide that the game might not be worth playing....would like to play different teams/change focus to ncaa playoffs and not play a tough team at the end of the season/etc...

That still doesn't address the conference schedules and the fact that the sport is largely regional.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 12, 2010, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa

Here's the problems with that:

1) Not all conferences have the freedom to schedule OOC games. It's harder for a school with eight or nine conference games to schedule tougher opponents because they're at the mercy of their conference. And some teams play the same OOC games each year. IC is always going to play Cortland, and has played Springfield (I think) every year, even when they were D-II or in some other conference. I doubt Fisher would want to give up Rochester

2) It's still a regional sport, and with economic times what they are, you can't expect a D-III school to adopt an "anyone, anytime, any place" attitude. It's not like Ithaca cut Huntington a check for coming to Butterfield in 2006. And considering the average attendance for a D-III game was under 1,900 according to the NCAA in 2009, the sport's not exactly making schools money. Fresno State would make a lot of money from attendance in big games they got at home, and probably got straight cash for going to certain places (like USC). Is it economically viable to do that? From a institution/department wide cost-benefit standpoint, is it worth it?

Even if you keep it in region, that still benefits teams in tougher regions. Del Valley and Wesley can only play so many teams.

Here's what you get when you add up 10- or 9-game schedules, conference games, traditional OOC rivalries and the regional component: Not many options for great OOC challenges. Sure, maybe the Wick could schedule Wesley and it was great when Fisher took on MUC. But I don't think there are a lot of ways for teams to, in a widespread manner, do that.



times change...used to have a HUGE turkey day cross town rivalry w/ a high school. regularly drew 15K to the game....everyone thought that game being played on thanksgiving day morning would go on forever like it had previously...well the state of pa. instituted state playoffs...guess what, game got moved to the regular season, and state playoffs took over.

They have been talking about this in Massachusetts recently and have changed the format a few times over the last 20 years.  Here is an interesting wiki article on some turkeyday rival games across the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_football#Massachusetts
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa

Here's the problems with that:

1) Not all conferences have the freedom to schedule OOC games. It's harder for a school with eight or nine conference games to schedule tougher opponents because they're at the mercy of their conference. And some teams play the same OOC games each year. IC is always going to play Cortland, and has played Springfield (I think) every year, even when they were D-II or in some other conference. I doubt Fisher would want to give up Rochester

2) It's still a regional sport, and with economic times what they are, you can't expect a D-III school to adopt an "anyone, anytime, any place" attitude. It's not like Ithaca cut Huntington a check for coming to Butterfield in 2006. And considering the average attendance for a D-III game was under 1,900 according to the NCAA in 2009, the sport's not exactly making schools money. Fresno State would make a lot of money from attendance in big games they got at home, and probably got straight cash for going to certain places (like USC). Is it economically viable to do that? From a institution/department wide cost-benefit standpoint, is it worth it?

Even if you keep it in region, that still benefits teams in tougher regions. Del Valley and Wesley can only play so many teams.

Here's what you get when you add up 10- or 9-game schedules, conference games, traditional OOC rivalries and the regional component: Not many options for great OOC challenges. Sure, maybe the Wick could schedule Wesley and it was great when Fisher took on MUC. But I don't think there are a lot of ways for teams to, in a widespread manner, do that.



times change...used to have a HUGE turkey day cross town rivalry w/ a high school. regularly drew 15K to the game....everyone thought that game being played on thanksgiving day morning would go on forever like it had previously...well the state of pa. instituted state playoffs...guess what, game got moved to the regular season, and state playoffs took over. My point being is don't count on ithaca/cortland or other rivalries forever. New coaches come in/administrations etc....change the focus and some may decide that the game might not be worth playing....would like to play different teams/change focus to ncaa playoffs and not play a tough team at the end of the season/etc...

That still doesn't address the conference schedules and the fact that the sport is largely regional.

guess u missed reading the part about "economics"....conferences will change as will rivalries....of course teams can't fly across the country to take on linfield or down to texas...but to me there is no reason why ithaca couldn't take on dvc/wesley/rowan/kean/etc/etc/etc/etc. Its not just wesley/dvc....you have other very good teams around like cortland/rowa/ithaca/hobart/montclair/etc....no reason to limit yourself to just a few top teams
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 12, 2010, 01:56:14 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:01:16 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 12, 2010, 11:54:19 AM
PBR - Who is it that you are pissing and moaning about?

no one...just wasting time until the lamp is lit...

So, you're yelling and screaming about no one?  Let's face it, i'd say at the very least, one of the best 3 teams wins the National Championship every year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 02:34:52 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 12, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 12, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 12, 2010, 10:39:13 AM
PBR do you have anything resembling a solution? Should the whole season just be one long single-elimination tournament? Or should everyone have to have the exact same OWP somehow, which would destroy conferences, be impossible to predict, and just generally be ridiculous.

would really like them to reward  teams for playing tough schedules. very similiar to how the ncaa men's hoops teams are selected. I want to see teams play difficult ooc schedules and so should the ncaa

Here's the problems with that:

1) Not all conferences have the freedom to schedule OOC games. It's harder for a school with eight or nine conference games to schedule tougher opponents because they're at the mercy of their conference. And some teams play the same OOC games each year. IC is always going to play Cortland, and has played Springfield (I think) every year, even when they were D-II or in some other conference. I doubt Fisher would want to give up Rochester

2) It's still a regional sport, and with economic times what they are, you can't expect a D-III school to adopt an "anyone, anytime, any place" attitude. It's not like Ithaca cut Huntington a check for coming to Butterfield in 2006. And considering the average attendance for a D-III game was under 1,900 according to the NCAA in 2009, the sport's not exactly making schools money. Fresno State would make a lot of money from attendance in big games they got at home, and probably got straight cash for going to certain places (like USC). Is it economically viable to do that? From a institution/department wide cost-benefit standpoint, is it worth it?

Even if you keep it in region, that still benefits teams in tougher regions. Del Valley and Wesley can only play so many teams.

Here's what you get when you add up 10- or 9-game schedules, conference games, traditional OOC rivalries and the regional component: Not many options for great OOC challenges. Sure, maybe the Wick could schedule Wesley and it was great when Fisher took on MUC. But I don't think there are a lot of ways for teams to, in a widespread manner, do that.



times change...used to have a HUGE turkey day cross town rivalry w/ a high school. regularly drew 15K to the game....everyone thought that game being played on thanksgiving day morning would go on forever like it had previously...well the state of pa. instituted state playoffs...guess what, game got moved to the regular season, and state playoffs took over. My point being is don't count on ithaca/cortland or other rivalries forever. New coaches come in/administrations etc....change the focus and some may decide that the game might not be worth playing....would like to play different teams/change focus to ncaa playoffs and not play a tough team at the end of the season/etc...

That still doesn't address the conference schedules and the fact that the sport is largely regional.

guess u missed reading the part about "economics"....conferences will change as will rivalries....of course teams can't fly across the country to take on linfield or down to texas...but to me there is no reason why ithaca couldn't take on dvc/wesley/rowan/kean/etc/etc/etc/etc. Its not just wesley/dvc....you have other very good teams around like cortland/rowa/ithaca/hobart/montclair/etc....no reason to limit yourself to just a few top teams

But here's the thing: All these things can't be applied equally, which, if you want to apply on a national scale and "reward" teams, you may want. In NCAA basketball, which was the comparison you made each team has numerous OOC games, and therefore, has numerous chances to benefit from scheduling. So if you can't find a couple good teams to play, or you have eight patsies on your schedule, it's not like you didn't have your shot

In D-III football, a team in the NJAC has one chance to boost their schedule beyond luck of the conference. Same with the OAC. Is it fair to hold their scheduling efforts up against a team that has 4/5 games to choose from?

Here's another tough thing: I don't think there are as many certainties on the D-III level regarding how consistent a team is going to be, so setting these up aren't always going to reward you. You want to guess when Springfield is going to go 8-2 rather than 4-6? Union has gone from five to eight to likely two wins the last three years. Kean is going to go from 9 to 5. Heck, Del Valley was a 5-win team in 2007. Sure, it's not like D-I where these things need to be ironed out a decade in advance, but even if schools are on the lookout for the tougher games, I don't think it's as easy to find them. Yes, that volatility is present everywhere, but I think it's even more so in D-III football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 12, 2010, 02:41:17 PM
TGP's bracket and playoff prediction:

Round 1
1.  MUC vs. 8 SLU
4.  SUNY M vs. 5. ALFRED (this could be flopped)
2.  DVC vs. 7. Cortland
3.  Rowan vs. 6.  Maine-M

Round 2
1. MUC vs. 5. ALFRED
2. DVC vs. ROWAN

Round 3
1. MUC vs. 2. DVC

(note how f-ed DVC gets with this bracket - potentially the toughest trip to the regional finals of any team in the entire country but funny thing is, they might be able to beat MUC this year)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 12, 2010, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 12, 2010, 02:41:17 PM
TGP's bracket and playoff prediction:

Round 1
1.  MUC vs. 8 SLU
4.  SUNY M vs. 5. ALFRED (this could be flopped)
2.  DVC vs. 7. Cortland
3.  Rowan vs. 6.  Maine-M

Round 2
1. MUC vs. 5. ALFRED
2. DVC vs. ROWAN

Round 3
1. MUC vs. 2. DVC

(note how f-ed DVC gets with this bracket - potentially the toughest trip to the regional finals of any team in the entire country but funny thing is, they might be able to beat MUC this year)

MUC over SLU are you serious  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2010, 03:00:52 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 12, 2010, 02:41:17 PM
TGP's bracket and playoff prediction:

Round 1
1.  MUC vs. 8 SLU
4.  SUNY M vs. 5. ALFRED (this could be flopped)
2.  DVC vs. 7. Cortland
3.  Rowan vs. 6.  Maine-M

Round 2
1. MUC vs. 5. ALFRED
2. DVC vs. ROWAN

Round 3
1. MUC vs. 2. DVC

(note how f-ed DVC gets with this bracket - potentially the toughest trip to the regional finals of any team in the entire country but funny thing is, they might be able to beat MUC this year)

Can't happen, TGP.  Maine Maritime is too far from Rowan.  If MME and Rowan get in (and Montclair does not), then there are only two choices:

In cement:

#1 UMU hosts #8 SLU
#5 SUNY-M hosts #7 MME

Four teams left

#2 DelVal
#3 Cortland
#4 Rowan
#6 Alfred

#3 and #4 cannot play in the first round, due to rematch implications.

So it's either:

#2 DelVal hosts #4 Rowan
#3 Cortland hosts #6 Alfred

OR:

#2 DelVal hosts #3 Cortland
#4 Rowan hosts #6 Alfred

The first one makes the most sense, though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Stlarry on November 12, 2010, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 12, 2010, 02:55:34 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 12, 2010, 02:41:17 PM
TGP's bracket and playoff prediction:

Round 1
1.  MUC vs. 8 SLU
4.  SUNY M vs. 5. ALFRED (this could be flopped)
2.  DVC vs. 7. Cortland
3.  Rowan vs. 6.  Maine-M

Round 2
1. MUC vs. 5. ALFRED
2. DVC vs. ROWAN

Round 3
1. MUC vs. 2. DVC

(note how f-ed DVC gets with this bracket - potentially the toughest trip to the regional finals of any team in the entire country but funny thing is, they might be able to beat MUC this year)

MUC over SLU are you serious  ???
Don't you know SLU can only beat teams they are supposed to get stomped by?  Things are setting up nicely for the Saints...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 12, 2010, 03:04:47 PM
Maine travelled to Montclair last season - but I forgot that Glassboro is SOUTH (about a 100 miles apparently) of Montclair....so yeah, nix that.

What if Endicott wins the NEFC?

Do you think the NCAA would put SUNY M vs. Endi?

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 12, 2010, 03:04:47 PM
Maine travelled to Montclair last season - but I forgot that Glassboro is SOUTH (about a 100 miles apparently) of Montclair....so yeah, nix that.

Nix what?  I know nothing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 12, 2010, 03:19:46 PM
Rowan has been ranked in front of Cortland in the last couple regional rankings.  Maybe that changes if Cortland beats Ithaca but, if not, the Red Dragons would be the lower seed and travel to Del Val.

And, yes, Del Val would have a much harder route to the regional finals than they probably should.  I don't have a problem with the Aggies not getting the top seed.  But not to get a game against one of the three weaker seeds (SUNY Maritime, St. Lawrence or Maine Maritime) is a rough break. 

Of course the fans of teams on Division III islands (West Coast, Texas) will be able to relate. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2010, 03:24:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 12, 2010, 03:19:46 PM
Rowan has been ranked in front of Cortland in the last couple regional rankings.  Maybe that changes if Cortland beats Ithaca but, if not, the Red Dragons would be the lower seed and travel to Del Val.

And, yes, Del Val would have a much harder route to the regional finals than they probably should.  I don't have a problem with the Aggies not getting the top seed.  But not to get a game against one of the three weaker seeds (SUNY Maritime, St. Lawrence or Maine Maritime) is a rough break. 

Of course the fans of teams on Division III islands (West Coast, Texas) will be able to relate. :)

Cortland will have won the Pool A and will have a higher SoS -- and at that point, Rowan got in despite a head-to-head.  So my feeling is that Cortland would re-jump Rowan during the seeding process.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 12, 2010, 03:25:40 PM
Certainly possible.  I predicted a Del Val-Rowan playoff match up in the first round a couple weeks ago.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2010, 03:27:53 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 12, 2010, 03:25:40 PM
Certainly possible.  I predicted a Del Val-Rowan playoff match up in the first round a couple weeks ago.

Honestly, G, ANYTHING is possible right now.  I said it to Pat last night -- you have to make two sets of predictions this year.  The "Way It Should Be" and the "Way It Probably Will Be" sets.  The Regional Rankings have done more to propel that this season (see the W&L between the two H-S's scenario in the South).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 12, 2010, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 12, 2010, 03:04:47 PM
Maine travelled to Montclair last season - but I forgot that Glassboro is SOUTH (about a 100 miles apparently) of Montclair....so yeah, nix that.

What if Endicott wins the NEFC?

Do you think the NCAA would put SUNY M vs. Endi?

Endicott has more options and would allow the normal pairing of seeds, I think.  I would guess they would be the 7th seed and sent to Doylestown.  Alfred would likely be the 6th seed and sent to an NJAC school.  And SUNY-Maritime would be matched up with the other NJAC team selected.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 12, 2010, 05:03:03 PM
I guess Cortland has won the NJAC and Rowan is the Pool C, I guess there is no reason to play football tomorrow. ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2010, 05:32:07 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 12, 2010, 03:27:53 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 12, 2010, 03:25:40 PM
Certainly possible.  I predicted a Del Val-Rowan playoff match up in the first round a couple weeks ago.

Honestly, G, ANYTHING is possible right now.  I said it to Pat last night -- you have to make two sets of predictions this year.  The "Way It Should Be" and the "Way It Probably Will Be" sets.  The Regional Rankings have done more to propel that this season (see the W&L between the two H-S's scenario in the South).

Here's what I did to avoid that matchup.

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2010/11/selection-show
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 12, 2010, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 12, 2010, 05:03:03 PM
I guess Cortland has won the NJAC and Rowan is the Pool C, I guess there is no reason to play football tomorrow. ::)

There are no guarantees and Cortland got screwed in the same fashion a few years ago when they lost to Rowan late in the season.

Play the game... if all win maybe we get three.  Still I'm rooting for Willy P, you understand.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 12, 2010, 11:33:35 PM
Quote from: JT on November 12, 2010, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 12, 2010, 05:03:03 PM
I guess Cortland has won the NJAC and Rowan is the Pool C, I guess there is no reason to play football tomorrow. ::)

There are no guarantees and Cortland got screwed in the same fashion a few years ago when they lost to Rowan late in the season.

Play the game... if all win maybe we get three.  Still I'm rooting for Willy P, you understand.
And I'm rooting for TCNJ. Yes, more will play out after tomorrow's games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 13, 2010, 04:16:43 AM
My thoughts on the Pre-Saturday East Bracket :

Mount Union (#1)     vs   St. Lawrence
Cortland       (#3)      vs   Alfred
Montclair       (#4)     vs   SUNY-Maritime
Del - Val        (#2)     vs   Endicott
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 13, 2010, 03:55:32 PM
I'd just like to say curses to the OOC schedules of Delaware Valley, Montclair and Cortland.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 03:57:04 PM
Del Val has just lost to WIdener 28-27. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 13, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 03:57:04 PM
Del Val has just lost to WIdener 28-27. 


Yikes.........what a mess....I don't think we can complain with whatever the NCAA chooses to do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:06:47 PM
Well, as I see it, Del Val loses a home game due to this. 

1) MTU
2) Cortland
3) Rowan
4) SUNY-Maritime
5) Del Valley
6) Alfred
7) Endicott
8) St. Lawrence
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 13, 2010, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:06:47 PM
Well, as I see it, Del Val loses a home game due to this. 

1) MTU
2) Cortland
3) Rowan
4) SUNY-Maritime
5) Del Valley
6) Alfred
7) Endicott
8) St. Lawrence

I think Del Valley is a better team than Alfred, but what places a two-loss Del Valley over a two-loss Alfred when Alfred beat Widener and the Aggies just lost?  What a mess!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 13, 2010, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:06:47 PM
Well, as I see it, Del Val loses a home game due to this. 

1) MTU
2) Cortland
3) Rowan
4) SUNY-Maritime
5) Del Valley
6) Alfred
7) Endicott
8) St. Lawrence

I think Del Valley is a better team than Alfred, but what places a two-loss Del Valley over a two-loss Alfred when Alfred beat Widener and the Aggies just lost?  What a mess!

Well, the two losses for Alfred are to far worse teams.  I think that may be the difference. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 13, 2010, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:06:47 PM
Well, as I see it, Del Val loses a home game due to this. 

1) MTU
2) Cortland
3) Rowan
4) SUNY-Maritime
5) Del Valley
6) Alfred
7) Endicott
8) St. Lawrence



Looks about right.....saddly, also looks like 3 DoubleMonkeyStomps and only one competitive game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:25:05 PM
Wow........I guess all of Frank's in-depth analysis is really just great conversational tidbits on an internet board.  At the end of the day.....just win the frickin' games you are supposed to win, and all the bellyaching about the poor overlooked East will go away.  Until then........sssssshhhhhhhh......

That is just weak......and now as Mount fans all we will hear from the rest of the country is how "EASY" Mount has it to the semi's.  Ugh....... :-\
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 13, 2010, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:25:05 PM
Wow........I guess all of Frank's in-depth analysis is really just great conversational tidbits on an internet board.  At the end of the day.....just win the frickin' games you are supposed to win, and all the bellyaching about the poor overlooked East will go away.  Until then........sssssshhhhhhhh......

That is just weak......and now as Mount fans all we will hear from the rest of the country is how "EASY" Mount has it to the semi's.  Ugh....... :-\



Agreed.....but no reason to be an azzclown.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2010, 04:34:05 PM
The Widener-Del Valley game just shows the high level of "quality parity" in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 13, 2010, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:25:05 PM
Wow........I guess all of Frank's in-depth analysis is really just great conversational tidbits on an internet board.  At the end of the day.....just win the frickin' games you are supposed to win, and all the bellyaching about the poor overlooked East will go away.  Until then........sssssshhhhhhhh......

That is just weak......and now as Mount fans all we will hear from the rest of the country is how "EASY" Mount has it to the semi's.  Ugh....... :-\

Agreed.....but no reason to be an azzclown.

But I have been reading/hearing the "East is getting screwed" arguments for at least the last four years.  Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking, and the SJF's, Del Val's, Alfred's, NJAC teams lose some game they have no business losing.  At the end of the day, THAT is why a team (Mount) gets moved to the East. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:50:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2010, 04:34:05 PM
The Widener-Del Valley game just shows the high level of "quality parity" in the East.

Exactly Ralph...... ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:52:26 PM
A lot of us don't agree with Frank's assessment, so don't lump us all in...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 13, 2010, 04:56:08 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 13, 2010, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:06:47 PM
Well, as I see it, Del Val loses a home game due to this. 

1) MTU
2) Cortland
3) Rowan
4) SUNY-Maritime
5) Del Valley
6) Alfred
7) Endicott
8) St. Lawrence

I think Del Valley is a better team than Alfred, but what places a two-loss Del Valley over a two-loss Alfred when Alfred beat Widener and the Aggies just lost?  What a mess!

Well, the two losses for Alfred are to far worse teams.  I think that may be the difference. 

Fair enough.  As I said, I think Del Valley is better but the common opponent at least makes the equation a little more interesting.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:57:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 04:52:26 PM
A lot of us don't agree with Frank's assessment, so don't lump us all in...

Actually....you have always been one to be succinct in your assessment regarding the East and a #1 seed.  I believe you have said win them all, and you won't have to worry about it any more.  So no, you are not a "Rossite".   ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking

So SUNY Maritime at 10-0 doesn't count?  It's a weak conference, but if this is all about being undefeated, then we have an undefeated team.  Who's to say they aren't as good as the other undefeated North teams besides MUC?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 13, 2010, 05:05:06 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 13, 2010, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:25:05 PM
Wow........I guess all of Frank's in-depth analysis is really just great conversational tidbits on an internet board.  At the end of the day.....just win the frickin' games you are supposed to win, and all the bellyaching about the poor overlooked East will go away.  Until then........sssssshhhhhhhh......

That is just weak......and now as Mount fans all we will hear from the rest of the country is how "EASY" Mount has it to the semi's.  Ugh....... :-\

Agreed.....but no reason to be an azzclown.

But I have been reading/hearing the "East is getting screwed" arguments for at least the last four years.  Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking, and the SJF's, Del Val's, Alfred's, NJAC teams lose some game they have no business losing.  At the end of the day, THAT is why a team (Mount) gets moved to the East. 



I think the same as you and have since the 1st time Mount was imported.....there is a better way to present thoughts is my point.

Coach and some of the other Mount supporters state similar feelings to yours, but in a succinct manner.

You must be a PurpleSuit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 05:08:20 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking

So SUNY Maritime at 10-0 doesn't count?  It's a weak conference, but if this is all about being undefeated, then we have an undefeated team.  Who's to say they aren't as good as the other undefeated North teams besides MUC?

Hopefully you can see the enormous fallacies in that argument. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 13, 2010, 05:05:06 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 13, 2010, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:25:05 PM
Wow........I guess all of Frank's in-depth analysis is really just great conversational tidbits on an internet board.  At the end of the day.....just win the frickin' games you are supposed to win, and all the bellyaching about the poor overlooked East will go away.  Until then........sssssshhhhhhhh......

That is just weak......and now as Mount fans all we will hear from the rest of the country is how "EASY" Mount has it to the semi's.  Ugh....... :-\

Agreed.....but no reason to be an azzclown.

But I have been reading/hearing the "East is getting screwed" arguments for at least the last four years.  Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking, and the SJF's, Del Val's, Alfred's, NJAC teams lose some game they have no business losing.  At the end of the day, THAT is why a team (Mount) gets moved to the East. 



I think the same as you and have since the 1st time Mount was imported.....there is a better way to present thoughts is my point.

Coach and some of the other Mount supporters state similar feelings to yours, but in a succinct manner.

You must be a PurpleSuit.

No purple suit here.....although I did have a mauve "Saturday Night Fever" suit when I was in high school.  It was totally cool..... ;D

As to SUNY Maritime.....sure.....anything is POSSIBLE.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:19:58 PM
I'm not convinced PG.  In the case of the NEFC, we had a track record of under performance in the NCAA playoffs to go on.  You don't give much respect to their champions because they tend to get clobbered in the playoffs.  Maritime and the ECFC have never been in this position, so we have no idea how good they are or aren't.

Here's my argument.  If a MAC team or NJAC/E8 team went undefeated, we'd claim them to be a bonafide #1, correct?  And would you be shocked if Maritime beat a MAC/NJAC/E8 team next week?  I wouldn't.  We just don't know how good they are.

No I don't believe that Maritime is the best team in our region.  But I have no proof that they aren't.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2010, 05:22:23 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:19:58 PM
I'm not convinced PG.  In the case of the NEFC, we had a track record of under performance in the NCAA playoffs to go on.  You don't give much respect to their champions because they tend to get clobbered in the playoffs.  Maritime and the ECFC have never been in this position, so we have no idea how good they are or aren't.

Here's my argument.  If a MAC team or NJAC/E8 team went undefeated, we'd claim them to be a bonafide #1, correct?  And would you be shocked if Maritime beat a MAC/NJAC/E8 team next week?  I wouldn't.  We just don't know how good they are.

No way.  I think they'll get crushed.  Look at their scores throughout the season.  Barely beating teams most people haven't even heard of.  No way they deserve to be considered a top seed. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2010, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking

So SUNY Maritime at 10-0 doesn't count?  It's a weak conference, but if this is all about being undefeated, then we have an undefeated team.  Who's to say they aren't as good as the other undefeated North teams besides MUC?

Dan, what does your computer formula tell you about SUNY-Maritime?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 13, 2010, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2010, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking

So SUNY Maritime at 10-0 doesn't count?  It's a weak conference, but if this is all about being undefeated, then we have an undefeated team.  Who's to say they aren't as good as the other undefeated North teams besides MUC?

Dan, what does your computer formula tell you about SUNY-Maritime?

Probably that they're hosting next weekend. :)


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2010, 05:46:24 PM
Dan used to do a power ranking. I was suggesting he consult that to find out how good SUNY-Maritime might be.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:54:55 PM
I didn't run it this season Pat.  Too Lazy.   :-\  And I need to code a new routine to ingest the scores since the D3 score pages have been re-done.

Some Maritime scores look pretty good.  For instance they throttled Norwich 20-2, and Norwich beat the Larries 25-14 prior to St Lawrence capturing the LL.   ::)  So arguably one could suggest Maritime was as good as anyone in the LL in 2010.

Other scores are not so good.  41-28 over West Conn doesn't impress the top of the NJAC, which destroyed West Conn.  And if Maritime played Hobart or RPI next week, I would not pick Maritime.

I took a look at the Laz Index but the ratings look funky this season.  It still has Fisher as #14 in the country, and it ranks Norwich ahead of Maritime.  No help whatsoever!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 06:05:53 PM
However...The overwhelming evidence to me is that West Conn fans have been telling Pat for years that their team is going to Salem.  And every year Pat goes to Salem and waits for West Conn to arrive. 

This season Maritime beat West Conn.  'Nuff said.   :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 13, 2010, 08:00:40 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 13, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
Every year there ends up being no undefeated teams of any ranking

So SUNY Maritime at 10-0 doesn't count?  It's a weak conference, but if this is all about being undefeated, then we have an undefeated team.  Who's to say they aren't as good as the other undefeated North teams besides MUC?

Pep and Kaz00 had a similar discussion last week at halftime of the AU-IC game. Kaz00 suggested why shouldn't SUNY-Maritime be rewarded with a high seed since, unlike Alfred, et al, they didn't "poop the bed." Pep replied that SUNY-Maritime hadn't pooped the bed because they've been sleeping on the sofa.

Delaware Valley's loss today certainly makes tomorrow's selection interesting!!

On Saxon Warriors!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 13, 2010, 08:06:54 PM
Well everyone did what they had to. The strenght of schedule + owp / oowp leads me to believe that Cortland will be the NJAC Champs and if so Congratulations. It appears that everyone has Rowan in as the Pool C, but to me it is pure bull. They lost the H2H by (19) to Montclair. If they get in and Montclair is out, it is nothing but NCAA politics. With the Hard-Sim loss they may be a chance for (2) slots for the East.
Feel bad for Wabash wacking DePauw, but they have (2) loses. Should be an interesting day aroune 3:00 tomorrow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 08:38:22 PM
The argument so far today has been that the Del Valley loss is another example of all the problems in the East lately.  I would argue to the contrary. 

Consider that Wesley, considered one of the top 4 teams in the nation, barely defeated Del Valley.  Yet Del Valley lost to Widener, and wasn't strong enough to run the table in its own conference.  What that tells me is that there are multiple teams in the East who could give Wesley a game, Widener included.  Obviously not Kean today, but then Kean faded to a distant 5th in the NJAC behind TCNJ.  And I clearly remember Brockport shocking the nation by destroying Wesley by 40+ points a few seasons ago.  Would Wesley be the #1 team in the East if they were so aligned?  Clearly yes.  But the DV-Wesley game shows the top of the South region is not much better than the 3rd or 4th best team in the East Region.

This is akin to what Frank Rossi has eloquently argued:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3800.1965

Like I've argued prior, when someone in the North beats Mounts Union during the regular season, they can talk plenty about the strength of their region.  But up to this point, the North hasn't accomplished anything the East has failed to do...take down MUC.  And the scores are comparable. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 13, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
Dan--
I want to take nothing away from the from a DVC program that I have nothing but respect for but Wesley turned the ball over six times that day and still won.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 13, 2010, 09:58:04 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 13, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
Dan--
I want to take nothing away from the from a DVC program that I have nothing but respect for but Wesley turned the ball over six times that day and still won.

Any assessment of how many were turnovers and how many were takeaways?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HSCTiger74 on November 13, 2010, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 08:38:22 PM
The argument so far today has been that the Del Valley loss is another example of all the problems in the East lately.  I would argue to the contrary. 

Consider that Wesley, considered one of the top 4 teams in the nation, barely defeated Del Valley. Yet Del Valley lost to Widener, and wasn't strong enough to run the table in its own conference.  What that tells me is that there are multiple teams in the East who could give Wesley a game, Widener included.   Obviously not Kean today, but then Kean faded to a distant 5th in the NJAC behind TCNJ.  And I clearly remember Brockport shocking the nation by destroying Wesley by 40+ points a few seasons ago.  Would Wesley be the #1 team in the East if they were so aligned?  Clearly yes.  But the DV-Wesley game shows the top of the South region is not much better than the 3rd or 4th best team in the East Region.

This is akin to what Frank Rossi has eloquently argued:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3800.1965

Like I've argued prior, when someone in the North beats Mounts Union during the regular season, they can talk plenty about the strength of their region.  But up to this point, the North hasn't accomplished anything the East has failed to do...take down MUC.  And the scores are comparable. 



What it tells me is that Del Valley had a bad day and Widener took advantage, nothing more. Given the unpredictability of sports I don't think that we can look at a single set of results and then extrapolate future results.   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 13, 2010, 10:27:56 PM
agreed +1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 10:35:43 PM
The NJAC has been settled.  Cortland wins the Pool A Selection via tiebreaker with a OOWP of 0.514.  Montclair had OOWP of 0.504, with Rowan at 0.502.   

Silly way to decide a playoff birth imo.  But at least we have Pool A settled now.  So, Rowan or Montclair as the Pool C?  Or Both?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 13, 2010, 10:53:34 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 05:19:58 PM
I'm not convinced PG.  In the case of the NEFC, we had a track record of under performance in the NCAA playoffs to go on.*  You don't give much respect to their champions because they tend to get clobbered in the playoffs.  Maritime and the ECFC have never been in this position, so we have no idea how good they are or aren't.

Here's my argument.  If a MAC team or NJAC/E8 team went undefeated, we'd claim them to be a bonafide #1, correct?  And would you be shocked if Maritime beat a MAC/NJAC/E8 team next week?  I wouldn't.  We just don't know how good they are.

No I don't believe that Maritime is the best team in our region.  But I have no proof that they aren't.

You're absolutely right.  It's by making exactly such arguments that I've managed to get forums shut down. 

The NCAA encourages regional competition, and even excludes (some, not all) inter-regional results from its selection criteria.  It's tough enough to gauge strength within a region, with no more than 9 or 10 data points per team, with usually all but one of those data points limited to within a single conference.

There is, for all practical purposes, zero relevant evidence for measuring relative strength of two undefeated teams in different regions.  Nonetheless, the Selection Committee seeds the number one teams across all regions.

Hey, they might be correct in their seedings.  There's just no evidence to support those seedings.

*I'd point out that poor performance in last year's NCAA tournament--against different teams than those who are playing in this year's NCAA tournament--is not evidence of any team's strength, but I'd be accused of nitpicking.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 13, 2010, 11:19:47 PM
Will be interesting to see how it shakes out. 

For the second year in a row, we'll have Dr. Joy Solomen, Chair of the tournament selection committee on ITH tomorrow night - shows starts at 7:30 PM ET. 

Please post your questions here once the selections have been made so we can work them into our interview accordingly (we'll have plenty of our own, but always open to input).

You can tune into ITH - www.inthehuddLLe.com - to hear the interview with Dr. Solomen as well as catch a live reading of the ECAC match ups as we expect to get those around 8:00-30 PM ET and plan to announce them live on the show. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 14, 2010, 10:03:43 AM
My honest feeling, even after pointing out the Wabash strength earlier in the week in here, is that either Rowan and Montclair BOTH go, or neither go.  My feeling is that they both go, saving the Committee the job of explaining why Rowan would be picked ahead of Montclair. 

That said, I would rather see Montclair and Wabash go.  Wabash earned it and played a pretty good schedule all season long.  It will be interesting, since the question is, "Is Wabash a one-loss or two-loss team in the assessment?"  Primary criteria say they're a one-loss team that has one of the best SoS's on the board.  They are distinguishable, have two quality regional wins and win most comparisons.  If that's the case -- and read this carefully -- THE COMMITTEE IS OBLIGATED TO HONOR PRIMARY CRITERIA ONLY.  They should not need to open it up to secondary criteria for Wabash.

This actually poses a major test for the Committee's idea from the past couple years that they pretty much have just thrown in both batches of criteria immediately.  Here's a case in which it shouldn't be happening.  Hopefully, the Committee has done the right thing.  As for Montclair, the H2H is too much for me to ignore.  It's a shell game if a double-digit H2H victory when a direct comparison is made between two teams isn't honored. 

Pat said it best in the final sentence of his selection blog -- there's a difference between what may be on the board on ESPNews today and what SHOULD be there. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 13, 2010, 06:05:53 PM
However...The overwhelming evidence to me is that West Conn fans have been telling Pat for years that their team is going to Salem.  And every year Pat goes to Salem and waits for West Conn to arrive. 

This season Maritime beat West Conn.  'Nuff said.   :P

West Conn fell off the cliff the past couple years, I guess they aren't getting the players that they used to.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 14, 2010, 10:40:30 AM
I got up around 2:30AM and before roplling back over, I went down stairs checked D3 and read the 2nd projections. Decided not to post, slept on it, still kept thinking and now I'm back on the computer. Here we go :

Congrats to Cortland as NJAC Champs. The double monkey stomping of De Pauw by Wabash to me would justify them a Pool C even they are 8-2.  Now down to the so called proposed Rowan pick as a Pool C.  The stregnth of Schedule as determined by the NCAA,  Montclair .493, Rowan .500, Westfield .518, and Lycoming .523. Not much of a difference. Montclair beats Rowan 26-7. The NCAA can pipe as much smoke up my arse as they want but if they pick Rowan as a Pool C instead of Montclair it is nothink but politics and they can spin it any way they want. Oh, by the way is not the AD of Rowan the head of the NCAA Selection Committee.  Again if Rowan is in and Montclair is out, this will be a big black for the NCAA, but I guess they probably don't care anyway.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 14, 2010, 10:42:34 AM

[/quote]

What it tells me is that Del Valley had a bad day and Widener took advantage, nothing more. Given the unpredictability of sports I don't think that we can look at a single set of results and then extrapolate future results.   
[/quote]

While this may be true...every single 1 loss team out there will tell you they had a bad day.  I know Cortland did.  In fact they had a bad half.

Not sure if you are suggesting that DelVal still be considered the #1 team in the east or what.  Del Val's problem is that they had two bad days; if you consider losses bad days.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 10:43:50 AM
In response to Rams, see my response on the NJAC board.  I wish you wouldn't post things twice...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 14, 2010, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 14, 2010, 10:40:30 AM
I got up around 2:30AM and before roplling back over, I went down stairs checked D3 and read the 2nd projections. Decided not to post, slept on it, still kept thinking and now I'm back on the computer. Here we go :

Congrats to Cortland as NJAC Champs. The double monkey stomping of De Pauw by Wabash to me would justify them a Pool C even they are 8-2.  Now down to the so called proposed Rowan pick as a Pool C.  The stregnth of Schedule as determined by the NCAA,  Montclair .493, Rowan .500, Westfield .518, and Lycoming .523. Not much of a difference. Montclair beats Rowan 26-7. The NCAA can pipe as much smoke up my arse as they want but if they pick Rowan as a Pool C instead of Montclair it is nothink but politics and they can spin it any way they want. Oh, by the way is not the AD of Rowan the head of the NCAA Selection Committee.  Again if Rowan is in and Montclair is out, this will be a big black for the NCAA, but I guess they probably don't care anyway.


I've seen both.  Montclair is better.  Sorry I don't have a vote.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 14, 2010, 10:46:47 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 10:43:50 AM
In response to Rams, see my response on the NJAC board.  I wish you wouldn't post things twice...
Sorry, but I'm really pissed and want to make sure everyone see's it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
Politics?  What politics are you referring to in your statement?  Is Rowan considered a "favorite" by the NCAA, so therefore they get the bid?  I don't understand your politics reference.  It might be flawed thinking by the NCAA, but calling it "politics" makes no sense.

Oh.......and to say that Del Val losing to Widener further enhances Frank's points is about the silliest thing I have heard. 

GOOD teams don't lose to a 4-5 team that was pounded by other East teams throughout the year.  You just don't lose games like that if you want to claim you are "the best in the East".  Sorry.....that just doesn't cut it. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2010, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
Politics?  What politics are you referring to in your statement?  Is Rowan considered a "favorite" by the NCAA, so therefore they get the bid?  I don't understand your politics reference.  It might be flawed thinking by the NCAA, but calling it "politics" makes no sense.

Oh.......and to say that Del Val losing to Widener further enhances Frank's points is about the silliest thing I have heard. 

GOOD teams don't lose to a 4-5 team that was pounded by other East teams throughout the year.  You just don't lose games like that if you want to claim you are "the best in the East".  Sorry.....that just doesn't cut it. 

He has mentioned that a Rowan staff memeber is a member of the selection committee and that if Rowan gets picked, it would be a political move.  He is basically questioning the integrity of the person/committee.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 10:54:06 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 14, 2010, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
Politics?  What politics are you referring to in your statement?  Is Rowan considered a "favorite" by the NCAA, so therefore they get the bid?  I don't understand your politics reference.  It might be flawed thinking by the NCAA, but calling it "politics" makes no sense.

Oh.......and to say that Del Val losing to Widener further enhances Frank's points is about the silliest thing I have heard. 

GOOD teams don't lose to a 4-5 team that was pounded by other East teams throughout the year.  You just don't lose games like that if you want to claim you are "the best in the East".  Sorry.....that just doesn't cut it. 

He has mentioned that a Rowan staff memeber is a member of the selection committee and that if Rowan gets picked, it would be a political move.  He is basically questioning the integrity of the person/committee.

It is my understanding that the Rowan person wouldn't even be part of the discussion if his/her team is in the mix. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2010, 10:54:42 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 10:54:06 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 14, 2010, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
Politics?  What politics are you referring to in your statement?  Is Rowan considered a "favorite" by the NCAA, so therefore they get the bid?  I don't understand your politics reference.  It might be flawed thinking by the NCAA, but calling it "politics" makes no sense.

Oh.......and to say that Del Val losing to Widener further enhances Frank's points is about the silliest thing I have heard. 

GOOD teams don't lose to a 4-5 team that was pounded by other East teams throughout the year.  You just don't lose games like that if you want to claim you are "the best in the East".  Sorry.....that just doesn't cut it. 

He has mentioned that a Rowan staff memeber is a member of the selection committee and that if Rowan gets picked, it would be a political move.  He is basically questioning the integrity of the person/committee.

It is my understanding that the Rowan person wouldn't even be part of the discussion if his/her team is in the mix. 

Mine too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 14, 2010, 11:15:01 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
Politics?  What politics are you referring to in your statement?  Is Rowan considered a "favorite" by the NCAA, so therefore they get the bid?  I don't understand your politics reference.  It might be flawed thinking by the NCAA, but calling it "politics" makes no sense.

Oh.......and to say that Del Val losing to Widener further enhances Frank's points is about the silliest thing I have heard. 

GOOD teams don't lose to a 4-5 team that was pounded by other East teams throughout the year.  You just don't lose games like that if you want to claim you are "the best in the East".  Sorry.....that just doesn't cut it. 


Dude, you are making way too much sense over the last two days....I agree with you 100% AGAIN.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 11:22:26 AM

The end is near.  There are East folks agreeing with Sidekick.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 11:22:26 AM

The end is near.  There are East folks agreeing with Sidekick.

Here come the locusts  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 14, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 11:22:26 AM

The end is near.  There are East folks agreeing with Sidekick.

Here come the locusts  ;D


I got my flu shot.....I should be safe.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2010, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 11:22:26 AM

The end is near.  There are East folks agreeing with Sidekick.
The Dallas Cowboys are in last place in the NFC East.
The Washington Senators Texas Rangers beat the Yankees to get to the World Series.
The Baylor Bears made the Top 25 this season.

The evidence builds.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 14, 2010, 11:42:19 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 14, 2010, 10:03:43 AM
It will be interesting, since the question is, "Is Wabash a one-loss or two-loss team in the assessment?"  Primary criteria say they're a one-loss team that has one of the best SoS's on the board.  They are distinguishable, have two quality regional wins and win most comparisons.  If that's the case -- and read this carefully -- THE COMMITTEE IS OBLIGATED TO HONOR PRIMARY CRITERIA ONLY.  They should not need to open it up to secondary criteria for Wabash.

This actually poses a major test for the Committee's idea from the past couple years that they pretty much have just thrown in both batches of criteria immediately.  Here's a case in which it shouldn't be happening.  Hopefully, the Committee has done the right thing.  As for Montclair, the H2H is too much for me to ignore.  It's a shell game if a double-digit H2H victory when a direct comparison is made between two teams isn't honored. 

I agree with your reading of the Selection criteria, Frank.  I've felt that way for many years, and I've been confused and frustrated when I get reports that primary and secondary considerations are considered simultaneously.  I don't think it can be interpreted any other way, given the clear language:

If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision by the committee, the following secondary criteria (for ranking and selections) will be evaluated:

Thus, the secondary criteria may only be used if the primary criteria fail to produce a selection (or seed) in a comparison.

The only explanation I can see for Wabash not being selected through primary criteria is if the committee discounts Strength of Schedule, which they're permitted to do, as the Selection Criteria are explicitly not in priority order.  There's justification for discounting SoS.  Consider this scenario:


This demonstrates that SoS isn't as important as winning percentage.  Surely head-to-head deserves a higher priority than SoS when comparing two teams, and I think there's merit in the argument that record v. common opponents and record v. ranked teams are both more important than SoS, which is a statistic derived from games in which the team being evaluated did not participate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 14, 2010, 11:47:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2010, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 11:22:26 AM

The end is near.  There are East folks agreeing with Sidekick.
The Dallas Cowboys are in last place in the NFC East.
The Washington Senators Texas Rangers beat the Yankees to get to the World Series.
The Baylor Bears made the Top 25 this season.

The evidence builds.

Can a Texas Christian University Horned Frogs' appearance in the BCS Championship Bowl be far behind?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 14, 2010, 12:21:00 PM
WTF happened to Del Val yesterday ??? The East is ****ed... :'(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 12:25:20 PM
HA HA HA!  Bravo gentleman!   ;D

What will be REALLY crazy is if this is the year that Mount loses in the regional final.  It could happen.....although I think with CSIII back for Mount it doesn't seem likely.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 14, 2010, 12:32:16 PM
As Keith said on the playoff blog, politics doesn't have anything to do with it. Pat and Gordon have Rowan in and Montclair out and they don't have any political motives. The fact is that different groups of people can come up with different conclusions while evaluating the exact same data.

As I have said before, criteria and common sense don't always mix with the NCAA.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 14, 2010, 10:40:30 AM
Again if Rowan is in and Montclair is out, this will be a big black for the NCAA

errr....A big black what?  Awkward!   :-X
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 12:51:39 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:50:46 AM
GOOD teams don't lose to a 4-5 team that was pounded by other East teams throughout the year.  You just don't lose games like that if you want to claim you are "the best in the East".  Sorry.....that just doesn't cut it. 

So you've established that DV is not a good team.  So by your logic, Wesley isn't good either since they barely squeaked past them on their home turf. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 01:21:38 PM
Please stop.  Wesley turned the ball over HOW many times in that game?  And still won......enough said.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 01:23:12 PM
And I didn't say they weren't a good team....they have proven they are not an elite team, and certainly not worth a #1 seed (or a #2/3).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 01:39:28 PM
You clearly said they were not a good team.  You even capitalized GOOD.  And since when were turnovers not caused by defense and only attributed to offensive mistakes?

But you are helping me make my point.  DV will be a 4,5, or 6 seed in the East and they still took Wesley to the wire on the road.  There is depth to the East.  You may argue that there is not if you choose, but I am at least providing examples to suggest that Rossi knows what he is talking about.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 01:40:49 PM
I really think you "Rossiites" live in a fantasy world  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 14, 2010, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 01:39:28 PM
You clearly said they were not a good team.  You even capitalized GOOD.  And since when were turnovers not caused by defense and only attributed to offensive mistakes?

But you are helping me make my point.  DV will be a 4,5, or 6 seed in the East and they still took Wesley to the wire on the road.  There is depth to the East.  You may argue that there is not if you choose, but I am at least providing examples to suggest that Rossi knows what he is talking about.

I posed a question yesterday that has so far gone unanswered: can anyone assess how many of Wesley's turnovers were turnovers as opposed to takeaways?  The same stat can reflect sloppy offense or killer defense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 14, 2010, 01:47:01 PM
What we have a problem with here is that people on both sides of this debate are starting at a different point. Those who start with skepticism about the East need to see a statement made before they'll take the East seriously. Those who start with an affinity for the East need to see the teams losing consistently before they'll believe that the East is weak.

I have to say I'm in the skeptics camp. In order to be convinced that the East is not weaker, I need to start seeing some big non-region wins. In the playoffs, or even not. The fact that there's different teams in the playoffs every year, very few of whom are undefeated, and NONE of whom challenge UMU, makes me in the "guilty until proven innocent" camp re: the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MasterJedi on November 14, 2010, 01:48:59 PM
The way I see it in that game DelVal played a good game while Wesley didn't. This belief goes with the way I see the East region: a lot of average teams that can play good/great games from time to time. The East isn't bad, they just don't have any elite teams, just a lot of average teams that when they play good can beat anyone else in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 14, 2010, 01:47:01 PM
What we have a problem with here is that people on both sides of this debate are starting at a different point. Those who start with skepticism about the East need to see a statement made before they'll take the East seriously. Those who start with an affinity for the East need to see the teams losing consistently before they'll believe that the East is weak.

I have to say I'm in the skeptics camp. In order to be convinced that the East is not weaker, I need to start seeing some big non-region wins. In the playoffs, or even not. The fact that there's different teams in the playoffs every year, very few of whom are undefeated, and NONE of whom challenge UMU, makes me in the "guilty until proven innocent" camp re: the East.

I believe that is a spot-on, fair assessment Max.  Kudos.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 01:53:27 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 14, 2010, 12:21:00 PM
WTF happened to Del Val yesterday ??? The East is ****ed... :'(

I call this dropping a dlipism.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: usee on November 14, 2010, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 14, 2010, 01:47:01 PM
What we have a problem with here is that people on both sides of this debate are starting at a different point. Those who start with skepticism about the East need to see a statement made before they'll take the East seriously. Those who start with an affinity for the East need to see the teams losing consistently before they'll believe that the East is weak.

I have to say I'm in the skeptics camp. In order to be convinced that the East is not weaker, I need to start seeing some big non-region wins. In the playoffs, or even not. The fact that there's different teams in the playoffs every year, very few of whom are undefeated, and NONE of whom challenge UMU, makes me in the "guilty until proven innocent" camp re: the East.

I believe that is a spot-on, fair assessment Max.  Kudos.......

It's actually far simpler than that in my mind. Frank Rossi is arguing the East faces unique challenges that result in a lack of respect. He argues the East deserves more respect and tries to show how they match up as well as the North or any other region. I disagree with the presupposition that the East faces anything unique that isn't also prevalent in other regions.

You don't have to make any subjective judgement on East strength vs North/West/South strength to determine if the same factors are influencing teams equally.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 03:09:59 PM
USee -

A better question to ask than "Is the East facing more challenges than X Region?" is "Does Mount Union and Whitewater have few challenges to face than the most other teams?"

It may be true that Baldwin-Wallace, Otterbein, Capital, etc have a similar amount of competing schools in their radius as Ithaca, Union, and Cortland.  I haven't studied this.  But the North Region is not dominating D3.  Mount Union and Whitewater are dominating D3.  So to me, the only relevant question to ask at this point is what advantages (other than coaching) do Mount Union and Whitewater possess that other schools (including those from their own regions/conferences) do not possess.

Perhaps that should be a subject for Keith's future ATN columns.

The only issue I take is the assumption that the North has more elite teams beyond Mount Union because of the 3 or 4 undefeated programs.  Trine is running the table against Apples.  Fisher is going 8-2 against Oranges.  UW-Stevens Point is comparing itself to Mangos.  None of these teams can compare its situation to the other.  We don't know if Trine would be 7-3 in the E8 or 10-0.  Would Stevens Point be 10-0 and considered "Elite" if they were in the MIAA?  So to me, a 8-2 vs 9-1 vs 10-0 debate is meaningless when there is no basis for comparison between the teams. 

Put Cortland, Rowan or Ithaca in the ECFC if you want to see a 10-0 East Region team.  Then you can call them "Elite" and deserving of a #1 seed. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 03:32:24 PM
Wow.  Montclair is selected but sent elsewhere, Rowan out, and Salisbury in the region, playing Del Val (that lost really cost Del Val) and ALfred is 6 seed but hosting SUNY-Maritime. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 03:34:06 PM
Well I guess we will get to see just how good del Val is in a few weeks.  Well that is if they can win their first round game which is in doubt.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 03:35:51 PM
What is the "off-the-field reason" alluded to which requires #3 Maritime to travel to #6 Alfred?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 14, 2010, 03:37:32 PM
Wow....DelVal is kicking themselves bigtime right now.  Tough road.  Congrats to Montclair.  I thought they were deserving given the H2H.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 03:37:48 PM
Maybe they didn't file the paperwork?  I'm not sure about that one.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 14, 2010, 03:38:58 PM
Good Luck C-State.  Keep it going.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 03:41:24 PM
Had a feeling Rowan was going to be left out. Don't know why, but I just did.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2010, 03:42:38 PM
UW-Whitewater is a 2 seed, which also surprised me.  There are a lot of surprises in this bracket and its setup. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 03:45:46 PM
I am delighted AU got a home game, but what gives?  Any ideas?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 03:55:05 PM
Now the AU athletics website says we are travelling to Maritime.  Did they get it wrong? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 14, 2010, 04:28:05 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 03:55:05 PM
Now the AU athletics website says we are travelling to Maritime.  Did they get it wrong? 

SUNY-Maritime and Cal Lutheran are unable to host due to facilities.  The Manual also states that a team cannot just move to a nearby facility since it didn't play half or more of their games in that facility.  Thus, AU will be hosting, as will Linfield in Round 1.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:31:57 PM
Thanks Frank!!  Now if the AU website would get its @*@* together, cripes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:38:34 PM
Pep is ECSTATIC that #6 Alfred will HOST #3 SUNY-Maritime!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:39:57 PM
Pep was at the Holmes Auditorium with the team and coaching staff when the bracket was revealed. Everyone was so delighted in the draw that no one noticed that Alfred was listed as the host team.

Coach Murray already gave instructions to the players to prepare for leaving Alfred early Friday.... he will need to nix those plans. AU is staying HOME!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!

Moretti is confirming with the NCAA. If AU is to host, there is a LOT of work to do. Moretti mentioned at the Selection Sunday event that SUNY Maritime would have trouble hosting it...there is so much paperwork, behind the scenes work that he wondered whether they could handle it.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!

Moretti is confirming with the NCAA. If AU is to host, there is a LOT of work to do. Moretti mentioned at the Selection Sunday event that SUNY Maritime would have trouble hosting it...there is so much paperwork, behind the scenes work that he wondered whether they could handle it.


Thanks Pep.  The Maritime website indicates they are coming to Alfred.  Keep us posted if you hear anything.

On Saxon Warriors!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!

Pep is certain that the SID would post on the website only what he was told. Pep just heard from Secky that Coach Puccio told him he is "99% sure" that AU will host.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:54:34 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!

Pep is certain that the SID would post on the website only what he was told. Pep just heard from Secky that Coach Puccio told him he is "99% sure" that AU will host.



You know me, "overreaction" is my middle name!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2010, 05:33:26 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!

Moretti is confirming with the NCAA.

We would not post that on our bracket if it weren't confirmed with the NCAA already.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 05:36:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2010, 05:33:26 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 14, 2010, 04:43:52 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 04:40:42 PM
Me too, Pep.  But our website has it all screwed up, they have us on the road!!

Moretti is confirming with the NCAA.

We would not post that on our bracket if it weren't confirmed with the NCAA already.

Moretti has confirmed....sorry, Pat...it's just that this development is so difficult to believe!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 14, 2010, 06:13:00 PM
Current top story on saxons.alfred.edu:

QuoteSaxons to play at Maritime College in first-round NCAA playoff game
11/14/10
Alfred University will host Maritime College in a first-round NCAA Division III football championship tournament game Saturday, Nov, 20.


Good stuff.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 07:15:40 PM
I looked at Maritime's stats.  Are they an option team?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 14, 2010, 07:24:08 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 14, 2010, 04:28:05 PM
SUNY-Maritime and Cal Lutheran are unable to host due to facilities.  The Manual also states that a team cannot just move to a nearby facility since it didn't play half or more of their games in that facility.  Thus, AU will be hosting, as will Linfield in Round 1.

Is Maritime in the middle of a stadium building project?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 14, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Maritime is an option team.

Read about the Mariners here.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2010/giving-themselves-options

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 14, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Maritime is an option team.

Read about the Mariners here.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2010/giving-themselves-options



Navy Grad as a head coach... he'd be an option guy.  You get players willing to sacrifice like GA Tech, you can win with lesser players.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 14, 2010, 07:44:48 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 14, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Maritime is an option team.

Read about the Mariners here.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2010/giving-themselves-options



Thank you!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 14, 2010, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 14, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Maritime is an option team.

Read about the Mariners here.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2010/giving-themselves-options




"[Kendick-Holmes'] linemen can be as light as 220 pounds, as long they have 'some lead in their pencil.'"


Double-entendre?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 08:35:40 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 14, 2010, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 14, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Maritime is an option team.

Read about the Mariners here.

http://d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2010/giving-themselves-options




"[Kendick-Holmes'] linemen can be as light as 220 pounds, as long they have 'some lead in their pencil.'"


Double-entendre?

Typical military speak.  No biggie.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hedgefundman on November 14, 2010, 08:43:01 PM
I have to admit that (1) I am new to posting on this board; (2) I have followed many of the posters on the board for years and (3) I have no skin in who wins and who loses.............I just love small college football and happen to live in the bucolic Doylestown, PA area.

My question is for skunks_sidekick. What did DelVal ever do to you? Your comments have a bit of venom in them and you have a bit of a "mine is bigger/better than yours" complex. Were you not hugged enough as a child?  :)

Because an occassional poster on the board brings up the every-now-and-then "East Coast Respect" factor, that is no reason to bash an "excellent", but not "elite" program. There truly are only two "elite" programs anyway, with only a handful of programs who truly care about becoming "elite" and settling for "solid" or "excellent" in the classroom first and on the field second.

Whether you're going to school at the midpoint between Philadelphia and New York.......or between Akron and Youngstown......or anywhere else, these kids (all of them) deserve nothing but our utmost respect whether they play for MTU, Whitewater, Kean, DelVal or a winless program.

Good luck to all of the teams and all of the STUDENT-athletes, regardless of what coast they're from, and let's truly keep all of this in it's proper life perspective........as much as we do love it!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: hedgefundman on November 14, 2010, 08:43:01 PM
I have to admit that (1) I am new to posting on this board; (2) I have followed many of the posters on the board for years and (3) I have no skin in who wins and who loses.............I just love small college football and happen to live in the bucolic Doylestown, PA area.

My question is for skunks_sidekick. What did DelVal ever do to you? Your comments have a bit of venom in them and you have a bit of a "mine is bigger/better than yours" complex. Were you not hugged enough as a child?  :)

Because an occassional poster on the board brings up the every-now-and-then "East Coast Respect" factor, that is no reason to bash an "excellent", but not "elite" program. There truly are only two "elite" programs anyway, with only a handful of programs who truly care about becoming "elite" and settling for "solid" or "excellent" in the classroom first and on the field second.

Whether you're going to school at the midpoint between Philadelphia and New York.......or between Akron and Youngstown......or anywhere else, these kids (all of them) deserve nothing but our utmost respect whether they play for MTU, Whitewater, Kean, DelVal or a winless program.

Good luck to all of the teams and all of the STUDENT-athletes, regardless of what coast they're from, and let's truly keep all of this in it's proper life perspective........as much as we do love it!!

skunks lives and loves as a Mount Union fan.  He opines by proxy.  Its a good place to be when Larry Kehres lords over D3, except for the occasional hiccups.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)

No doubt JT....no doubt.  After further review, and having a reflective moment, I have to admit I am unsure why things like the NCAA D-III seedings would bring out such a response.  I need to to take up yoga, accupuncture, or some sort of "serenity now" program.   ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:25:50 PM
As one of the few people that has actually met Sidekick, what his Mom needs is slapped. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:25:50 PM
As one of the few people that has actually met Sidekick, what his Mom needs is slapped.  

I'm sorry you were sick in 2005... me, you, and Ric would have had a blast Friday night at the wings place.

Ric was cool on his own but I was looking for the HS Coach/Ric tandem.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
Not many people wish for that more than once......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 14, 2010, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
Not many people wish for that more than once......

I tend to like people that bust balls, irreverent types.  The wife thinks I need to get along to go along... but I've never done that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 10:31:59 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
Not many people wish for that more than once......

Understatement of the year........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:25:50 PM
As one of the few people that has actually met Sidekick, what his Mom needs is slapped.  

I'm sorry you were sick in 2005... me, you, and Ric would have had a blast Friday night at the wings place.

Ric was cool on his own but I was looking for the HS Coach/Ric tandem.

JT --- You should see the tricks these guys pull if there's any "talent" around them.... especially hscoach.  "No means no" comes to mind   ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 15, 2010, 07:09:26 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:25:50 PM
As one of the few people that has actually met Sidekick, what his Mom needs is slapped.  

I'm sorry you were sick in 2005... me, you, and Ric would have had a blast Friday night at the wings place.

Ric was cool on his own but I was looking for the HS Coach/Ric tandem.

JT --- You should see the tricks these guys pull if there's any "talent" around them.... especially hscoach.  "No means no" comes to mind   ;D

At least I haven't pulled the "Boy, you have a pretty mouth" line like I've seen you do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 15, 2010, 08:20:08 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 15, 2010, 07:09:26 AM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 14, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:38:34 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2010, 09:25:50 PM
As one of the few people that has actually met Sidekick, what his Mom needs is slapped.  

I'm sorry you were sick in 2005... me, you, and Ric would have had a blast Friday night at the wings place.

Ric was cool on his own but I was looking for the HS Coach/Ric tandem.

JT --- You should see the tricks these guys pull if there's any "talent" around them.... especially hscoach.  "No means no" comes to mind   ;D

At least I haven't pulled the "Boy, you have a pretty mouth" line like I've seen you do.

haha...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2010, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!

There's still one undefeated East team.  Hoping that comes to an end at Merrill on saterday!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)

No doubt JT....no doubt.  After further review, and having a reflective moment, I have to admit I am unsure why things like the NCAA D-III seedings would bring out such a response.  I need to to take up yoga, accupuncture, or some sort of "serenity now" program.   ;)


Christmas is coming....save your money and get a 'Festivus' pole....maybe you can even wrestle your mom.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 15, 2010, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)

No doubt JT....no doubt.  After further review, and having a reflective moment, I have to admit I am unsure why things like the NCAA D-III seedings would bring out such a response.  I need to to take up yoga, accupuncture, or some sort of "serenity now" program.   ;)


Christmas is coming....save your money and get a 'Festivus' pole....maybe you can even wrestle your mom.

Hmmm.....I have always wanted one of those poles.  Now THAT is a religion where I believe I could find true enlightenment.   8-) 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2010, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2010, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!

There's still one undefeated East team.  Hoping that comes to an end at Merrill on saterday!

Yes but you know what dlip means AU :) ...and yes, best of luck to the Saxons this weekend. dlip hopes they homonogize their visitors  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2010, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 15, 2010, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)

No doubt JT....no doubt.  After further review, and having a reflective moment, I have to admit I am unsure why things like the NCAA D-III seedings would bring out such a response.  I need to to take up yoga, accupuncture, or some sort of "serenity now" program.   ;)


Christmas is coming....save your money and get a 'Festivus' pole....maybe you can even wrestle your mom.

Hmmm.....I have always wanted one of those poles.  Now THAT is a religion where I believe I could find true enlightenment.   8-) 

Don't forget the awesomeness involved with the other "Festivus" activities:

- Airing of Grievances - Where you gather your family around, and tell them all the ways they have disappointed you over the past year.

- Feats of Strength - Where the head of the household selects one person at the Festivus celebration and challenges that person to a wrestling match.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 15, 2010, 03:36:15 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2010, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 15, 2010, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)

No doubt JT....no doubt.  After further review, and having a reflective moment, I have to admit I am unsure why things like the NCAA D-III seedings would bring out such a response.  I need to to take up yoga, accupuncture, or some sort of "serenity now" program.   ;)


Christmas is coming....save your money and get a 'Festivus' pole....maybe you can even wrestle your mom.

Hmmm.....I have always wanted one of those poles.  Now THAT is a religion where I believe I could find true enlightenment.   8-) 

Don't forget the awesomeness involved with the other "Festivus" activities:

- Airing of Grievances - Where you gather your family around, and tell them all the ways they have disappointed you over the past year.

- Feats of Strength - Where the head of the household selects one person at the Festivus celebration and challenges that person to a wrestling match.


Hence, my wrestling comment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2010, 03:48:36 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2010, 03:36:15 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2010, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 15, 2010, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: Union89 on November 15, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: JT on November 14, 2010, 09:00:14 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

Maybe its your Mom that needs sympathies.  ;)

No doubt JT....no doubt.  After further review, and having a reflective moment, I have to admit I am unsure why things like the NCAA D-III seedings would bring out such a response.  I need to to take up yoga, accupuncture, or some sort of "serenity now" program.   ;)


Christmas is coming....save your money and get a 'Festivus' pole....maybe you can even wrestle your mom.

Hmmm.....I have always wanted one of those poles.  Now THAT is a religion where I believe I could find true enlightenment.   8-) 

Don't forget the awesomeness involved with the other "Festivus" activities:

- Airing of Grievances - Where you gather your family around, and tell them all the ways they have disappointed you over the past year.

- Feats of Strength - Where the head of the household selects one person at the Festivus celebration and challenges that person to a wrestling match.


Hence, my wrestling comment.

+k U89...I missed that.

I still remember spitting milk through my nose the first time Frank Costanza stated how he started Festivus: "Many Christmases ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way."

Seriously...that last sentence still makes me laugh at loud to this day...that and the fact that he was getting a doll for his son, and that the doll was a girl...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2010, 04:38:41 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
some teams get completely screwed out of playing for the national championship that should be in the tournament...

I know this conversation was so last week, but I thought to myself at the time that I'd take a look at the Week 11 Top 25 and see which ranked teams didn't make the tournament.

#17 Pacific Lutheran
#19 Hardin-Simmons
#22 Rowan
#25 Wabash

All of these teams certainly would have made for better competition in place of some of the weaker AQs, but if we consider where we were 12 years ago we essentially still have the "top" 16 teams playing for the national championship, but we also have a degree of equity for the undefeated teams below that threshold as well as other conference winners.  There certainly are scenarios where one of these 4 teams could win the tournament, but they would be rather unlikely.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on November 15, 2010, 04:53:13 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2010, 04:38:41 PM
Quote from: PBR... on November 10, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
some teams get completely screwed out of playing for the national championship that should be in the tournament...

I know this conversation was so last week, but I thought to myself at the time that I'd take a look at the Week 11 Top 25 and see which ranked teams didn't make the tournament.

#17 Pacific Lutheran
#19 Hardin-Simmons
#22 Rowan
#25 Wabash

All of these teams certainly would have made for better competition in place of some of the weaker AQs, but if we consider where we were 12 years ago we essentially still have the "top" 16 teams playing for the national championship, but we also have a degree of equity for the undefeated teams below that threshold as well as other conference winners.  There certainly are scenarios where one of these 4 teams could win the tournament, but they would be rather unlikely.

Wel said. It's a nice combination of equal access, yet still ensuring that the best teams are able to make the show. We'll never have a perfect setup...heck, even the 64 team NCAA basketball tourney had to get expanded because 'quality' teams were getting left out  ::)... but I'm pretty happy with what we've got.

THen again, my team got an at-large and isn't left at home...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 15, 2010, 06:12:10 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!

dlip
The E8 could have had Wesley!!!! ?Just saying !!!  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2010, 07:54:59 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 15, 2010, 06:12:10 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!

dlip
The E8 could have had Wesley!!!! ?Just saying !!!  ;D

PA really??? dlip had no clue. When? Did Wesley apply and were they denied by the E8? dlip can't see how the E8 wouldn't take Wesley and yet they would welcome ****ing F State and Salisbury (although dlip is happy about Salisbury). dlip is clearly getting frustrated (hence the swearing is back ;D). Oh how he would love to see the East rise again...**** IT!!! dlip is going back in time to the 80s!!!


(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fclassiccars.com%2Fuploads%2Fclassifieds%2F854791.jpg&hash=aa4adfa1c63edcba120fd3c0ad7ece08e3d9c9ec)


(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.bridepower.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2F1980s-parachute-pants.png&hash=b265380e9c1d783ac060dfb6c5b57c144eb942dd)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 15, 2010, 09:57:14 PM
dlip

  I am not sure what came first Wesley's reprimand for financial aide problems or the invite to the E8 of FSU and SSU. But I think that may have had a little bit to do with it.
I don't see Wesley going to the NJAC any time soon either because of 100 roster limit.
With Salisbury and Frostburg headed East that Put Wesley onand even Bigger Island in the south.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2010, 10:09:58 PM
Hey, folks -- our friends at d3photography.com (not part of the network, but a partner) is hosting D3football.com's bracket challenge this season. Go sign up and fill out a bracket at:
http://www.d3photography.com/pickem/

As usual no prizes, which protects student-athletes and coaches from NCAA issues.

This season, one sign-up gets you access to all bracket challenges -- no more signing back up for D3hoops.com brackets in the spring.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redswarm81 on November 15, 2010, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2010, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!

There's still one undefeated East team.  Hoping that comes to an end at Merrill on saterday!

Yes but you know what dlip means AU :) ...and yes, best of luck to the Saxons this weekend. dlip hopes they homonogize their visitors  ;)

Homonogize?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: redswarm81 on November 15, 2010, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2010, 11:12:25 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2010, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 14, 2010, 08:56:31 PM
Hedge....Del Val just happened to be the "next great East team" of the year.  It's nothing against them personally, it's more about the theory that the East gets screwed when Mount gets placed there.  I have heard/read this argument for the past few years, and it just gets old.

I have the utmost respect for Rowan, and if they were 10-0 I would fully expect them to be a #1.  Actually, if Del Val would have "held serve", we wouldn't have had 40 pages of diatribe regarding the East getting screwed.  If any East team that played in one of the "better conferences" had an undefeated record, there would be no argument.  That hasn't happened, hence Mount getting moved.

Now that you mention it, I wasn't hugged enough as a kid.  I am going to send my MOM a nasty email.  Thanks for reminding me about THAT (dayum you mom)!   ;D

dlip is at the point where he just concurrs. ****ing East needs and undefeated team...please at least one in the next ****ing decade  :-[. Every conference beats the **** out of each other year in and year out. We need a king of the hill and fast!

There's still one undefeated East team.  Hoping that comes to an end at Merrill on saterday!

Yes but you know what dlip means AU :) ...and yes, best of luck to the Saxons this weekend. dlip hopes they homonogize their visitors  ;)

Homonogize?

Only on saterdays.  I'm exited!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DVCFan11 on November 16, 2010, 10:36:57 AM
So whats everyones early predictions for the championship? I have Mt Union (AGAIN) against a surprise Wesley team. i know prob not a great pick but i went with the upset team
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)

Delaware Valley - 31
Salisbury - 17

Cortland St. - 45
Endicott - 10

Alfred - 24
SUNY-Maritime - 6

'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 10
Montclair St. - 6

ECAC

St. John Fisher - 24
RPI - 10

Springfield - 56
Mt. Ida - 12


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)



Yeah, I'm very worried about the SLU game turning into Wisconsin/Indiana minus the 20 points for Indiana. I know MUC usually gets a pretty weak team in the first round, and it's not like 56-0 or some of their previous games in the playoffs haven't been a blowout, but I worry about this game creeping up into the 70's/80's. I'm not saying MUC is going to run up the score, because they won't, but sometimes, even when you empty the bench, there's only so much you can do.

Tough break for St. Lawrence, but good on them for making the playoffs. Give 'em all you got.

I'm going to take MUC/UW-W in the finals because, well, after five seasons, I'm not going to believe in someone else until they prove it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 16, 2010, 11:46:44 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)



Yeah, I'm very worried about the SLU game turning into Wisconsin/Indiana minus the 20 points for Indiana. I know MUC usually gets a pretty weak team in the first round, and it's not like 56-0 or some of their previous games in the playoffs haven't been a blowout, but I worry about this game creeping up into the 70's/80's. I'm not saying MUC is going to run up the score, because they won't, but sometimes, even when you empty the bench, there's only so much you can do.

Tough break for St. Lawrence, but good on them for making the playoffs. Give 'em all you got.

I'm going to take MUC/UW-W in the finals because, well, after five seasons, I'm not going to believe in someone else until they prove it

Especially in the playoffs where the rosters are limited...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)

Yeah, I'm very worried about the SLU game turning into Wisconsin/Indiana minus the 20 points for Indiana. I know MUC usually gets a pretty weak team in the first round, and it's not like 56-0 or some of their previous games in the playoffs haven't been a blowout, but I worry about this game creeping up into the 70's/80's. I'm not saying MUC is going to run up the score, because they won't, but sometimes, even when you empty the bench, there's only so much you can do.

Tough break for St. Lawrence, but good on them for making the playoffs. Give 'em all you got.

I'm going to take MUC/UW-W in the finals because, well, after five seasons, I'm not going to believe in someone else until they prove it

You can always run out at the 1, take three knees and kick a field goal once you're up 50.

I went Whitewater-Wesley in the final, buying into all the Mount Union anti-hype.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2010, 12:20:47 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)

Delaware Valley - 31
Salisbury - 17

Cortland St. - 45
Endicott - 10

Alfred - 24
SUNY-Maritime - 6

'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 10
Montclair St. - 6

ECAC

St. John Fisher - 24
RPI - 10

Springfield - 56
Mt. Ida - 12





dlip will give this a go with the Dawg!!!


Mount Union - 62
St. Lawrence - 3 (Have to do this but dlip really does not see them scoring)


Delaware Valley - 14
Salisbury - 35

Cortland St. - 17
Endicott - 3

Alfred - 28
SUNY-Maritime - 24

'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 17
Montclair St. - 7

ECAC

St. John Fisher - 24
RPI - 27

Springfield - 64
Mt. Ida - 14

Good chunk of games here Lew and dlip is with you on most. dlip thinks RPI has a lot more to play for here and King is going to get this team fired up and ready to go. SJF on the other hand comes in IMHO quite disappointed and feeling like they have completely underachieved...which they have.

Springfield, dlip believes, is a clear NCAA calibur team in 2010 and will prove this by ****ing homogonizing (that's for you RS you ****ing tool) IDA.

Alfred won't allow another slip up, especially here in the tourney at home and will be all buisness. The end result will be close but still going the Saxons way.

MSU will not be able to hang with H/S, they just won't be able to put up enough points to really challenge (dlip hopes he is wrong here).

After watching Picher last week dlip feels Cortland will have to rely on Autera and it's D. This may take them past round one but that might just be it.

dlip's big call is the Salisbury game. Del Val was a HUGE let down last week, for all of us, and will not be able to handle the Gulls who played Wesley even better than they did. Salisbury's athleticism runs all over.

SLU vs MUC...well... :'( dlip just congratulates SLU on making the NCAA's and hopes this year is a start for even better things to come. Go SLU!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 16, 2010, 12:36:40 PM
RPI beating SJF would greatly show how ridiculous the losses to St. Lawrence, Utica, and WPI were.  Obviously i'm pulling for RPI, but if they DO win, everything i've been feeling for 4-5 years is 100% true and that they need a change of some sort to get to that next level, because I'm pretty sure they are getting the talent, and are talented enough to beat just about anyone, but they seem handicapped and can't get over some hurdle and continually stumble in the league year in and year out.

If Fisher roughs them up, then it's obvious that the LL was WAY down and none of the teams were really that good this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)

Yeah, I'm very worried about the SLU game turning into Wisconsin/Indiana minus the 20 points for Indiana. I know MUC usually gets a pretty weak team in the first round, and it's not like 56-0 or some of their previous games in the playoffs haven't been a blowout, but I worry about this game creeping up into the 70's/80's. I'm not saying MUC is going to run up the score, because they won't, but sometimes, even when you empty the bench, there's only so much you can do.

Tough break for St. Lawrence, but good on them for making the playoffs. Give 'em all you got.

I'm going to take MUC/UW-W in the finals because, well, after five seasons, I'm not going to believe in someone else until they prove it

You can always run out at the 1, take three knees and kick a field goal once you're up 50.


Yeah, I know Kehres will call off the dogs. But an 18-year old kid may not think about that during a play. I also wonder, how do you balance respect with patronization?

This is probably an overblown concern and the game will wind up 45-3, but sometimes, you get that match-up and say "uh-oh"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on November 16, 2010, 12:54:24 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64
St. Lawrence - 0
(I tried giving St. Lawrence points here, I really did!)

Yeah, I'm very worried about the SLU game turning into Wisconsin/Indiana minus the 20 points for Indiana. I know MUC usually gets a pretty weak team in the first round, and it's not like 56-0 or some of their previous games in the playoffs haven't been a blowout, but I worry about this game creeping up into the 70's/80's. I'm not saying MUC is going to run up the score, because they won't, but sometimes, even when you empty the bench, there's only so much you can do.

Tough break for St. Lawrence, but good on them for making the playoffs. Give 'em all you got.

I'm going to take MUC/UW-W in the finals because, well, after five seasons, I'm not going to believe in someone else until they prove it

You can always run out at the 1, take three knees and kick a field goal once you're up 50.

I went Whitewater-Wesley in the final, buying into all the Mount Union anti-hype.

If they win out, UW-W will face Wesley in the National Semifinals.  On the other side the #1 seeds are Mount Union and St. Thomas.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: Manuel Willocq on November 16, 2010, 12:54:24 PM
If they win out, UW-W will face Wesley in the National Semifinals.  On the other side the #1 seeds are Mount Union and St. Thomas.

Good catch.  Didn't bother logging back into the D3photography pick'em, but I had UWW over St. Thomas.  Mea Culpa.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DVCFan11 on November 16, 2010, 01:38:04 PM
Mount Union - 66
St. Lawrence - 6
-- Like everyone else i really am having trouble thinking they will score a single pt against MTU but i had to give them at least one score for the seniors

Delaware Valley - 27
Salisbury - 21 
-- i am VERY worried about a hangover from the Widener game here. If Salisbury gets ahead early might have a mental effect for the Aggies. But with the history between them i think DVC pulls it out

Cortland St. - 28
Endicott - 14

Alfred - 27
SUNY-Maritime - 35

'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 24
Montclair St. - 7

Now be gentle with my picks, i am a newbie here on the boards haha. i have Mt Union against Wesley in the final with Mt Union winning it in a close game. (although i would love to see another team upset them at some point in this braket)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 16, 2010, 03:09:15 PM
MU is "only" averaging 40.6 ppg and has allowed an average of 13.1 ppg (but with 4 shutouts).  I don't think SLU will be shut out, especially since the Larries do have a pretty good kicker.

Matt Dodge went 6 for 7 with a long of 47 yards - only miss was a 41 yarder vs. Hobart, so if SLU advances the ball near the MU 20-30 yd lines, they can probably come away with at least 3.

That said, the difference will probably be the passing game due to players like Shorts (probably the best player in all of DIII and a legitimate NFL prospect).  SLU's pass defense allows nearly 200 YPG has been bailed out in the past by making opportunistic picks (sometimes due to bad throws by the opposing QBs).  Given MU's QB has a ~70% accuracy that probably won't happen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2010, 03:36:50 PM
QuoteAlfred - 27
SUNY-Maritime - 35


Interesting pick and one that could happen. Yet, Alfreds losses to U of R and RPI don't seem as bad considering both RPI and AU finished the year strong and dlip dosen't really think the Saxons will let this one slide. Overall dlip thinks there is quite a difference between Alfred and Maritime talent wise, but you never know. ****, ****ing Norwich defeated SLU who won the damn LL with a 5-5 record. Crazier things could/have happened besides Maritime pulling this one out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 16, 2010, 06:57:08 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 16, 2010, 03:36:50 PM
QuoteAlfred - 27
SUNY-Maritime - 35


Interesting pick and one that could happen. Yet, Alfreds losses to U of R and RPI don't seem as bad considering both RPI and AU finished the year strong and dlip dosen't really think the Saxons will let this one slide. Overall dlip thinks there is quite a difference between Alfred and Maritime talent wise, but you never know. ****, ****ing Norwich defeated SLU who won the damn LL with a 5-5 record. Crazier things could/have happened besides Maritime pulling this one out.

That was one of the harder games to set a spread on since Alfred has been so wildly inconsistent.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Mount Union - 70
St. Lawrence - 0
-Like everyone else, can't see SLU scoring in this one. I think it will be something like 49-0 at halftime and MUC calls off the dogs in a big way

Delaware Valley - 27
Salisbury - 13
-Solid win for Del Valley, not extremely impressive but I think they beat Salisbury comfortably

Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred - 38
SUNY-Maritime - 14
-Okay, so my bias is showing a little bit here, but I dont think Maritime can stop the AU offense. There is so much offensive balance only a team with a ton of defensive talent could stop them when they're on (and believe me, they are taking this game with 100% seriousness, they will be ready). But, more to the point, the maritime triple option offense is tailor made for AU to stop it. There was no other team that held Springfield in the way AU did, and their run D has been their biggest strength all year. I see a blowout

'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 21
Montclair St. - 10
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 16, 2010, 09:37:52 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 12:04:39 PM


You can always run out at the 1, take three knees and kick a field goal once you're up 50.


Yeah, I know Kehres will call off the dogs. But an 18-year old kid may not think about that during a play. I also wonder, how do you balance respect with patronization?


Bingo. I'd rather someone score a touchdown on me to go up 55-7, then stop at the 1, take a knee, and kick a field goal. That's pity, not respect.

My barometer for running up the score is personnel and playcalling. If you're up 50 in the fourth, and have the third team in running fullback dives, and your defense is playing a vanilla base D and not blitzing, then that is all that an opponent can ask.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 17, 2010, 07:27:26 AM
Quote from: Doid23 on November 16, 2010, 09:37:52 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2010, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 16, 2010, 12:04:39 PM


You can always run out at the 1, take three knees and kick a field goal once you're up 50.


Yeah, I know Kehres will call off the dogs. But an 18-year old kid may not think about that during a play. I also wonder, how do you balance respect with patronization?


Bingo. I'd rather someone score a touchdown on me to go up 55-7, then stop at the 1, take a knee, and kick a field goal. That's pity, not respect.

My barometer for running up the score is personnel and playcalling. If you're up 50 in the fourth, and have the third team in running fullback dives, and your defense is playing a vanilla base D and not blitzing, then that is all that an opponent can ask.

If I hadn't been following Mount for 20+ years I would agree completely with your statement above, but there have been games (Wilmington usually) where Mount's back-ups to the back-up would still be scoring at will even on the most basic of plays.  I don't know the East well enough to pick out a comparable team, but take your most consistently BAD east region team that is completely devoid of talent and effort and that's Wilmington.  Now put them on the same field with one of Mount's better teams (ala Kmic & Micheli a few years ago) and the games get ugly quick.    If the 2nd and 3rd teams were allowed to play all out, Mount could have approach 100 points against Wilmington a few times.

The usual way to keep from scoring is for the RB to run out of bounds, or run into a defender and fall down, inside the 20 yard line.  They then run 3 dives into the line where the RB isn't actually trying to gain yards.  Just simply running clock and finding someone to knock him down.  Then either kick the FG or do the same thing on 4th down to turn the ball back over.

I can't remember the year or who the RB was, but he was a senior that had never stepped on the varsity field before and got few carries at the end of a game in scrub time.  Anyway, he breaks a 50+ yard run and has clear sailing to the end zone for his first and only TD of his college career when he takes a 90 degree turn at the 5 and runs out of bounds.  It was pretty sad on a couple counts:
1.   It cost him his only shot at scoring a TD in 4 years of college.
2.  He wasn't well versed on not making it look obvious


What still amazes me about D3 is the wide range of talent between the very top and very bottom.  I realize we have twice as many teams as D1 does, but there is a much bigger divide between the top 10% teams versus the bottom 10% of teams in D3. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
QuoteCortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

So true
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
QuoteCortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

So true

I don't drink this Kool-Aid at this point.  What can we judge this on?  They lost a nailbiter to Rowan and took care of everyone else on their schedule.  They had a big comeback against a huge rival(not to mention a fairly good team) to finish the season.  I think this year Cortland could surprise a few people.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Stlarry on November 17, 2010, 08:44:28 AM
Mount Union - 49
St. Lawrence - 10
-HOMER ALERT-
I think SLU kicks a FG in the first half and the game is surprisingly close (as in 27-3) at halftime.

Delaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17


Cortland St. - 24
Endicott - 10


Alfred - 42
SUNY-Maritime - 7


'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 24
Montclair St. - 10
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2010, 09:45:02 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
QuoteCortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

So true

I don't drink this Kool-Aid at this point.  What can we judge this on?  They lost a nailbiter to Rowan and took care of everyone else on their schedule.  They had a big comeback against a huge rival(not to mention a fairly good team) to finish the season.  I think this year Cortland could surprise a few people.

dlip does not think Cortland is "bad" but he thinks that, at least from what he saw last week, the Red Dragons are just not that good and may be ripe for getting upset. If Picher comes out this week the way he did the last Cortland may be in trouble.

*Yet it is also important to say that dlip has only seen Cortland play once this year and he feels that his opinion of the Red Dragons is not well based and in stone. He hopes the Red Dragons lay down a Monkey Stomp this weekend and is behind them 100%. he just doesnot feel it will happen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2010, 09:47:18 AM
QuoteDelaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17

dlip is telling everyone to watch out for this game. IMHO too many are overlooking the Gulls who will come into this game fired up and ready to go.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2010, 09:51:31 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 09:47:18 AM
QuoteDelaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17

dlip is telling everyone to watch out for this game. IMHO too many are overlooking the Gulls who will come into this game fired up and ready to go.

Just 1 short week ago, we thought Del Valley could contend against Mount Union.  Don't let a meaningless trap game against a major rival think they aren't as good as previously advertised.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 17, 2010, 10:02:14 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 09:51:31 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 09:47:18 AM
QuoteDelaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17

dlip is telling everyone to watch out for this game. IMHO too many are overlooking the Gulls who will come into this game fired up and ready to go.

Just 1 short week ago, we thought Del Valley could contend against Mount Union.  Don't let a meaningless trap game against a major rival think they aren't as good as previously advertised.

Pep recalls reading somewhere (Gordon Mann) that the Aggies were missing some starters late in that game. Their playoff prowess could be seriously challenged by injuries. When Manzer went down in the first quarter last year against Albright, AU lost not only its leading receiver and playmaker, but also one of its better defenders in the secondary...a double blow. Most teams can survive and overcome regular season injuries--in time, but in the playoffs there's no tomorrow.

Pep wishes DelVal the best but wonders if the team that stayed with Wesley has been weakened by injuries?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:05:05 AM
I also tend to believe Del val Goes down....

Here are my picks:

St. Lawrence 0
Mt. Union 63

Endicott 3
Cortland 17

SUNY-Maritime 10
Alfred 38

Salisbury 34
Del Val 31

Just for the heck of it...

Montclair 9
HS   23
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 10:32:59 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 09:51:31 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 09:47:18 AM
QuoteDelaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17

dlip is telling everyone to watch out for this game. IMHO too many are overlooking the Gulls who will come into this game fired up and ready to go.

Just 1 short week ago, we thought Del Valley could contend against Mount Union.  Don't let a meaningless trap game against a major rival think they aren't as good as previously advertised.


Who here has actually seen Del Val play? Serious question?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 17, 2010, 11:31:37 AM
i have seen them twice, and not against wesley.  i have seen salisbury once, against wesley.  based on what i saw i think delval wins the game, unless as dlip stated they have lost some d players to injury.  if so, they will have trouble with the triple option that salisbury runs.  it should be a good game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 17, 2010, 11:37:31 AM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.


But Alfred lost to RPI and Rocha cha.  What should have been fairly easy OOC games this season.  Cortland had to comeback in rivalry game, big difference and they are riding a Cortaca win into the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2010, 11:41:01 AM
QuoteWhat should have been fairly easy OOC games this season

dlip does not know if he agrees with this KS. U of R was clearly a different team towards the end of the year. A team that if they began the 2010 campaign the way they ended it would be going to the NCAAs with an LL title on their shoulders. RPI also showed some prowess (word dedicated to Walt "Clyde" Frazier) late in the year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Raider 68 on November 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM
From TGP,

"MU is "only" averaging 40.6 ppg and has allowed an average of 13.1 ppg (but with 4 shutouts).  I don't think SLU will be shut out, especially since the Larries do have a pretty good kicker."

TGP

MTU has only allowed 7.9 pts per game including 4 shutouts! I see your point, but total stats are more indicative of the defense year, also #2 in the Nation in scoring defense! :)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2010, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: Raider 68 on November 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM
From TGP,

"MU is "only" averaging 40.6 ppg and has allowed an average of 13.1 ppg (but with 4 shutouts).  I don't think SLU will be shut out, especially since the Larries do have a pretty good kicker."

TGP

MTU has only allowed 7.9 pts per game including 4 shutouts! I see your point, but total stats are more indicative of the defense year, also #2 in the Nation in scoring defense! :)



Regardless it is most likely going to be an ugly affair. dlip feels MTU will call off the dogs after half and let SLU at least take a breath.

Go Saints
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 17, 2010, 11:55:42 AM
Quote from: Raider 68 on November 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM
From TGP,

"MU is "only" averaging 40.6 ppg and has allowed an average of 13.1 ppg (but with 4 shutouts).  I don't think SLU will be shut out, especially since the Larries do have a pretty good kicker."

TGP

MTU has only allowed 7.9 pts per game including 4 shutouts! I see your point, but total stats are more indicative of the defense year, also #2 in the Nation in scoring defense! :)



Doh - well math never was my best subject.  79/10 does = 7.9.  Looks like I left out the 0's last time....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 17, 2010, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:05:05 AM

Just for the heck of it...

Montclair 9
HS   23


Hmmm, I keep seeing predictions that Montclair State is going down.   When I looked at their season compared to Hampden-Sydney's I was pretty confident MSU was the favorite.  Even on the road.  Plus for the last couple weeks I've read a ton of stuff about how tough the NJAC is (which I agree) and how all three of the 9-1 teams should get in the playoffs.    Plus how Cortland & Montclair were just inches away from being the East legit #1 seed.  Now I see you guys saying MSU is losing to HSC.    If nothing else, I thought 9-1 in the NJAC was better than 9-1 in the ODAC.

Hopefully I'm not on glue, but I was pretty comfortable with this spread:
#5 Montclair State at #4 Hampden-Sydney (+6.5)

I'm really curious to hear the East's opinion on why? 

THANKS in advance for the insight.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 17, 2010, 12:37:03 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 17, 2010, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:05:05 AM

Just for the heck of it...

Montclair 9
HS   23


Hmmm, I keep seeing predictions that Montclair State is going down.   When I looked at their season compared to Hampden-Sydney's I was pretty confident MSU was the favorite.  Even on the road.  Plus for the last couple weeks I've read a ton of stuff about how tough the NJAC is (which I agree) and how all three of the 9-1 teams should get in the playoffs.    Plus how Cortland & Montclair were just inches away from being the East legit #1 seed.  Now I see you guys saying MSU is losing to HSC.    If nothing else, I thought 9-1 in the NJAC was better than 9-1 in the ODAC.

Hopefully I'm not on glue, but I was pretty comfortable with this spread:
#5 Montclair State at #4 Hampden-Sydney (+6.5)

I'm really curious to hear the East's opinion on why? 

THANKS in advance for the insight.


I have Montclair as the favorite... +6.5 sounds good to me. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 17, 2010, 12:49:02 PM
QuoteWho here has actually seen Del Val play? Serious question?

I've seen them play every game since 2003 and agree with WesleyDad.  The Aggies were missing two starters off their defensive front in a 3-4 at the end of the Widener game.  If those guys aren't back, I don't think Del Val can beat Salisbury.  If those guys are back, I still think it's a toss up.  Salisbury is a tough team to prepare for.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 17, 2010, 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 09:51:31 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 09:47:18 AM
QuoteDelaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17

dlip is telling everyone to watch out for this game. IMHO too many are overlooking the Gulls who will come into this game fired up and ready to go.

Just 1 short week ago, we thought Del Valley could contend against Mount Union.  Don't let a meaningless trap game against a major rival think they aren't as good as previously advertised.


Also keep in mind that my good friend dlip's 'ManLove' chart goes as follows:

#1)    Springfield 'Pride'
#1a)  Salisbury 'Gulls'

#2-89)  All other teams in the 'East'

dlip looooves him some triple option!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 17, 2010, 01:01:16 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 10:32:59 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 09:51:31 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 09:47:18 AM
QuoteDelaware Valley - 28
Salisbury - 17

dlip is telling everyone to watch out for this game. IMHO too many are overlooking the Gulls who will come into this game fired up and ready to go.

Just 1 short week ago, we thought Del Valley could contend against Mount Union.  Don't let a meaningless trap game against a major rival think they aren't as good as previously advertised.


Who here has actually seen Del Val play? Serious question?


I'm not sure this team actually exists either.....I only hear PBR telling fables about their, "Feats of Strength".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 17, 2010, 01:10:11 PM
Gordon, KMac & Pat,

Where be the 'Team Capsules'?  

Those synopsis' (or synopsi) are very informative.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred "dominated Ithaca"? After the first quarter it was even steven. The First Quarter sucked though.

Seriously, though, this is quite a leap in logic. I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 17, 2010, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
QuoteCortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

So true

I don't drink this Kool-Aid at this point.  What can we judge this on?  They lost a nailbiter to Rowan and took care of everyone else on their schedule.  They had a big comeback against a huge rival(not to mention a fairly good team) to finish the season.  I think this year Cortland could surprise a few people.

Personally, I think Cortland has the easiest road to Alliance.  That being said, our offense must play better and get back to a more balanced attack.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 17, 2010, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

To paraphrase the big man from Matthew 6, "Can any one of you by worrying add a single yard to a Saxon drive?" We're a very devout group here in Mayberry.  Plus, wasn't it an Alfred who said, "What me worry?"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2010, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 17, 2010, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
QuoteCortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

So true

I don't drink this Kool-Aid at this point.  What can we judge this on?  They lost a nailbiter to Rowan and took care of everyone else on their schedule.  They had a big comeback against a huge rival(not to mention a fairly good team) to finish the season.  I think this year Cortland could surprise a few people.

Personally, I think Cortland has the easiest road to Alliance.  That being said, our offense must play better and get back to a more balanced attack.  

Technically, St. Lawrence has the easiest road to Alliance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 17, 2010, 02:04:18 PM
AUKaz:

Brilliant. :)

I think the playoff capsules come out tomorrow or later today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2010, 02:23:50 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 17, 2010, 01:10:11 PM
Gordon, KMac & Pat,

Where be the 'Team Capsules'?  

Those synopsis' (or synopsi) are very informative.

Ahh, crap, I'm reading the message board!

Yeah, they are in process. I farm pieces out to people but do all the compilation and publishing and a lot of the writing myself ... gotta get back to it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 17, 2010, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred "dominated Ithaca"? After the first quarter it was even steven. The First Quarter sucked though.

Seriously, though, this is quite a leap in logic. I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

There is quiet concern.  However,  Murray coached  defenses at AU have historically done pretty well against option teams.  So I think there is also a measured confidence that as long as we don't shoot ouselves in both feet with mistakes (as we REALLY did against RPI) we have a fairly good shot on Saterday.  And, by the way, is it Saterday yet?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 02:29:55 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 17, 2010, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

To paraphrase the big man from Matthew 6, "Can any one of you by worrying add a single yard to a Saxon drive?" We're a very devout group here in Mayberry.  Plus, wasn't it an Alfred who said, "What me worry?"

+k



Quote from: gordonmann on November 17, 2010, 12:49:02 PM
QuoteWho here has actually seen Del Val play? Serious question?

I've seen them play every game since 2003 and agree with WesleyDad.  The Aggies were missing two starters off their defensive front in a 3-4 at the end of the Widener game.  If those guys aren't back, I don't think Del Val can beat Salisbury.  If those guys are back, I still think it's a toss up.  Salisbury is a tough team to prepare for.


So was anyone who has been seeing them this year really considering them any kind of a threat to Mount (pre-November), if losing 2 guys on D means it's reasonable that they lose to Widener?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 17, 2010, 02:39:29 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 11:41:01 AM
QuoteWhat should have been fairly easy OOC games this season

dlip does not know if he agrees with this KS. U of R was clearly a different team towards the end of the year. A team that if they began the 2010 campaign the way they ended it would be going to the NCAAs with an LL title on their shoulders. RPI also showed some prowess (word dedicated to Walt "Clyde" Frazier) late in the year.

People keep saying the E8 is the strongest conf in the east.  Well the conf champ of the strongest conf should be able to beat RPI and Roch this season.  Meanwhile Rowan, Cortland and MSU went through the season with 1 loss each in a conf that is just as tough or tougher than the E8 and 2 of the three had good OOC wins, Rowan over Lyco and Cortland over Ithaca.  People are thinking that Cortland and MSU are overrated or will slip up this weekend?  I think both win convincingly this Saterday. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 17, 2010, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 17, 2010, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

To paraphrase the big man from Matthew 6, "Can any one of you by worrying add a single yard to a Saxon drive?" We're a very devout group here in Mayberry.  Plus, wasn't it an Alfred who said, "What me worry?"


(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk85%2FAUPepBand%2FAlfredENeumann.jpg&hash=f4a67c49e6f0067d51580d0fdda2f9f918bc5f50)

Pep concurs... "Can any one of you by worrying add an NCAA playoff win to your team's resume?"
Let's just leave it that there's a "quiet confidence" that the Saxons will show up to play on Saterday.

Pep wonders if the Privateers have ever played at such a high altitude as can be found at Alfred. Quoting Wickipedia, an occasionally reliable source of pertinent information:

The elevation of Alfred is about 1,700 feet (520 m), but due to the hilliness of the region, this varies greatly within the town. The hills greatly affect the weather in Western New York, which results in quick changes as well as different conditions in neighboring valleys. The weather is often described by the truism that says: "If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes; it'll change."

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 17, 2010, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Delaware Valley - 31
Salisbury - 17


I like Salisbury in this one.  Will be interesting to see how Del Valley handles the option.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 17, 2010, 05:57:41 PM
Pep is hoping the boys from the Bronx can find Merrill Field okay...that's Alfred, NY...not Alfred, Ohio, which had Pep confused a few summers ago.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk85%2FAUPepBand%2FMilanTrip020.jpg&hash=2f2ea160f5c9ec424da6cd229d531e1c2937a10c)

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 17, 2010, 06:51:09 PM
maxpower, honestly, no.  they were a good team when i saw them.  i wish i had seen the wesley game, sorry the great american beer fest in denver got in the way, to see how poorly wesley played.  i think 6 turnovers and they still held delval to 17 points.  they have a tough defense, but i dont think they are deep so 2 or 3 players out could hurt.  still you dont lose to a widener team that was trounced by several teams earlier in the season.  it is a rivalry game, but you still cant lose it if you want to challenge mount or uwww.  i think salisbury has a real good chance to win if delval is missing anyone, and a chance if they are all healthy.  the triple option is tough to deal with when you dont play against it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 17, 2010, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 17, 2010, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 17, 2010, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
QuoteCortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

So true

I don't drink this Kool-Aid at this point.  What can we judge this on?  They lost a nailbiter to Rowan and took care of everyone else on their schedule.  They had a big comeback against a huge rival(not to mention a fairly good team) to finish the season.  I think this year Cortland could surprise a few people.

Personally, I think Cortland has the easiest road to Alliance.  That being said, our offense must play better and get back to a more balanced attack.  

Technically, St. Lawrence has the easiest road to Alliance.

lol....very good. +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUSaxons on November 17, 2010, 08:03:11 PM
Did you see the game? The Alfred Oline and Dline's both had a field day. Dwyer had 275 rushing yards, Ithaca had 64. AU outgained Ithaca by over 150 yards on offense. This is WITH almost 100 yards in penalties by AU. And lets not forget that the TV replay showed that Clark never fumbled it on the goalline so really the score should have been 38-17. Yes, Alfred dominated Ithaca. Anybody who saw the game would tell you it wasnt even a game.

In comparison, Ithaca outgained Cortland on offense. And if not for a mishandled snap IC may win that game. That is not saying Ithaca should have won, they made a mistake and Cortland capitalized. Still, Cortland was on the ropes down 17-3 in the 3rd quarter to an Ithaca team that, lets be real, is an average team. AU didn't get up for the RPI or Rochester games, it was not a matter of being beaten up by a better team as much as it was AU not showing up to play. They will be up for Maritime and most definitely Cortland....I dont see Cortlands 1 dimensional offense being able to penetrate the AU run D

If it happens, i'll say AU 34 Cortland 17
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred "dominated Ithaca"? After the first quarter it was even steven. The First Quarter sucked though.

Seriously, though, this is quite a leap in logic. I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 17, 2010, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 17, 2010, 08:03:11 PM
Did you see the game? The Alfred Oline and Dline's both had a field day. Dwyer had 275 rushing yards, Ithaca had 64. AU outgained Ithaca by over 150 yards on offense. This is WITH almost 100 yards in penalties by AU. And lets not forget that the TV replay showed that Clark never fumbled it on the goalline so really the score should have been 38-17. Yes, Alfred dominated Ithaca. Anybody who saw the game would tell you it wasnt even a game.

In comparison, Ithaca outgained Cortland on offense. And if not for a mishandled snap IC may win that game. That is not saying Ithaca should have won, they made a mistake and Cortland capitalized. Still, Cortland was on the ropes down 17-3 in the 3rd quarter to an Ithaca team that, lets be real, is an average team. AU didn't get up for the RPI or Rochester games, it was not a matter of being beaten up by a better team as much as it was AU not showing up to play. They will be up for Maritime and most definitely Cortland....I dont see Cortlands 1 dimensional offense being able to penetrate the AU run D

If it happens, i'll say AU 34 Cortland 17
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred "dominated Ithaca"? After the first quarter it was even steven. The First Quarter sucked though.

Seriously, though, this is quite a leap in logic. I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

If Aflred didn't show up against RPI or Rochester, then Ithaca didn't show up against Alfred.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 17, 2010, 09:15:12 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 17, 2010, 08:12:41 PM
If Aflred didn't show up against RPI or Rochester, then Ithaca didn't show up against Alfred.

Pep remains cautiously optimistic. As has been stated by others, Murray's boys have controlled Springfield's triple option sufficiently to win four straight from the Pride. The Saxons have an advantage in that they've seen that offense before, although Maritime will have a few different wrinkles (more motion).

There is always the question of which Alfred shows. AU's offense has had games in which they've been prone to turn it over and as a result, repeatedly put the defense on the defense. Such was the case at RPI and against an upstart UR squad.

Alfred is capable of putting together a near-perfect game, which it needed to defeat both Fisher and Ithaca this season. Alfred is also capable of looking like dog poop on the new FieldTurf.

Pep will be at Merrill Field with a boisterous band, hoping there will be no droppings on the turf on Saterday when the clock says 00:00.

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 17, 2010, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:05:05 AM

Just for the heck of it...

Montclair 9
HS   23


Hmmm, I keep seeing predictions that Montclair State is going down.   When I looked at their season compared to Hampden-Sydney's I was pretty confident MSU was the favorite.  Even on the road.  Plus for the last couple weeks I've read a ton of stuff about how tough the NJAC is (which I agree) and how all three of the 9-1 teams should get in the playoffs.    Plus how Cortland & Montclair were just inches away from being the East legit #1 seed.  Now I see you guys saying MSU is losing to HSC.    If nothing else, I thought 9-1 in the NJAC was better than 9-1 in the ODAC.

Hopefully I'm not on glue, but I was pretty comfortable with this spread:
#5 Montclair State at #4 Hampden-Sydney (+6.5)

I'm really curious to hear the East's opinion on why? 

THANKS in advance for the insight.


While obviously I could be way off, I've been following MSU closely for the last 6 or so weeks, (listening, looking at stats, etc) and there is just something "Off" to me about this team.  They just don't put games away.  Their offense has been horrible at times.  I guess my prediction is based all of this and my gut feelings.  I do hope that MSU proves me very wrong! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: CstateFB on November 17, 2010, 09:49:08 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred "dominated Ithaca"? After the first quarter it was even steven. The First Quarter sucked though.

Seriously, though, this is quite a leap in logic. I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

In rivalry games such as Cortaca anything can happen. Cortland is definitely not overrated and their defense is as good as advertised...if not better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 09:51:17 PM
Quote from: CstateFB on November 17, 2010, 09:49:08 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 17, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 16, 2010, 09:30:31 PM
Cortland St. - 20
Endicott - 14
-I believe after seeing an Ithaca team that got dominated by Alfred play cortland to the final whistle, Cortland is very overrated. I see them beating Endicott, but barely in a hard fought game.

Alfred "dominated Ithaca"? After the first quarter it was even steven. The First Quarter sucked though.

Seriously, though, this is quite a leap in logic. I still can't figure out why there is so little concern in the AU camp that this team is capable of losing to RPI and UR at any given moment....

In rivalry games such as Cortaca anything can happen. Cortland is definitely not overrated and their defense is as good as advertised...if not better.

I'm just not going to do it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 17, 2010, 09:52:46 PM
Quote from: AUSaxons on November 17, 2010, 08:03:11 PM
And lets not forget that the TV replay showed that Clark never fumbled it on the goalline so really the score should have been 38-17.

I think a thorough review of the tape showed that Clark was running parallel to the goal line when he was stripped.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 17, 2010, 10:09:47 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 17, 2010, 12:23:02 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:05:05 AM

Just for the heck of it...

Montclair 9
HS   23


Hmmm, I keep seeing predictions that Montclair State is going down.   When I looked at their season compared to Hampden-Sydney's I was pretty confident MSU was the favorite.  Even on the road.  Plus for the last couple weeks I've read a ton of stuff about how tough the NJAC is (which I agree) and how all three of the 9-1 teams should get in the playoffs.    Plus how Cortland & Montclair were just inches away from being the East legit #1 seed.  Now I see you guys saying MSU is losing to HSC.    If nothing else, I thought 9-1 in the NJAC was better than 9-1 in the ODAC.

Hopefully I'm not on glue, but I was pretty comfortable with this spread:
#5 Montclair State at #4 Hampden-Sydney (+6.5)

I'm really curious to hear the East's opinion on why? 

THANKS in advance for the insight.


While obviously I could be way off, I've been following MSU closely for the last 6 or so weeks, (listening, looking at stats, etc) and there is just something "Off" to me about this team.  They just don't put games away.  Their offense has been horrible at times.  I guess my prediction is based all of this and my gut feelings.  I do hope that MSU proves me very wrong! 
I can't disagree with what you said. There is talent there and something tells me, something special is going to happen. Just call it a hunch with the "O". There is talent there, just get it together.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: CstateFB on November 17, 2010, 10:15:59 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on November 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM


MTU has only allowed 7.9 pts per game including 4 shutouts!.....#2 in the Nation in scoring defense! :)



#2? Who is the #1 scoring defense?  ;D ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:19:46 PM
Quote from: CstateFB on November 17, 2010, 10:15:59 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on November 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM


MTU has only allowed 7.9 pts per game including 4 shutouts!.....#2 in the Nation in scoring defense! :)



#2? Who is the #1 scoring defense?  ;D ;)

It must be all that time they spend on D3boards.com !
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: CstateFB on November 17, 2010, 10:40:01 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2010, 10:19:46 PM
Quote from: CstateFB on November 17, 2010, 10:15:59 PM
Quote from: Raider 68 on November 17, 2010, 11:48:01 AM


MTU has only allowed 7.9 pts per game including 4 shutouts!.....#2 in the Nation in scoring defense! :)



#2? Who is the #1 scoring defense?  ;D ;)


It must be all that time they spend on D3boards.com !

???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 18, 2010, 01:05:28 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 17, 2010, 08:12:41 PM
If Aflred didn't show up against RPI or Rochester, then Ithaca didn't show up against Alfred.

Yep.  Could also argue that IC whipped Springfield, which in turn put on a show against Fisher.  Which suddenly makes a Cortland win over IC look good.  Anyone can cherry pick a result or two to make their argument with.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 18, 2010, 02:15:43 AM
It's bad enough players break their team rules and post on these forums.  But claiming to be a Rowan fan? Well, that is taking things too far! 

:P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 18, 2010, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

Pep would argue that Gatto should be one of the first inducted into the Post Patterns Player Poster Hall of Fame. Gatto has had a lasting impact on the E8 boards. Gatto upstaged our own superfluously spotty speller Superman....BTW, has Pep said how exited he is about Saterday!?!

Whatever happened to Superman?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 18, 2010, 09:33:08 AM
Superman was never a player at Fisher--trust me
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 18, 2010, 09:36:42 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 18, 2010, 09:33:08 AM
Superman was never a player at Fisher--trust me

True. Pep met Superman at Growney. But Pep's just saying that Gatto upstaged "our own" (regular E8 posters) Superman, who often boasted of his inability to spell.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 18, 2010, 09:37:58 AM
NO DOUBT...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2010, 09:53:42 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2010, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

Pep would argue that Gatto should be one of the first inducted into the Post Patterns Player Poster Hall of Fame. Gatto has had a lasting impact on the E8 boards. Gatto upstaged our own superfluously spotty speller Superman....BTW, has Pep said how exited he is about Saterday!?!

Whatever happened to Superman?

Look no further than Our Lady Peace's 1997 hit single off their album Clumsy to find out what exactly happened to him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 18, 2010, 10:18:13 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2010, 09:53:42 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2010, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

Pep would argue that Gatto should be one of the first inducted into the Post Patterns Player Poster Hall of Fame. Gatto has had a lasting impact on the E8 boards. Gatto upstaged our own superfluously spotty speller Superman....BTW, has Pep said how exited he is about Saterday!?!

Whatever happened to Superman?

Look no further than Our Lady Peace's 1997 hit single off their album Clumsy to find out what exactly happened to him.

Is that true?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 18, 2010, 10:27:29 AM
Booby?
Are you serious?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2010, 10:55:21 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 18, 2010, 10:18:13 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2010, 09:53:42 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2010, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

Pep would argue that Gatto should be one of the first inducted into the Post Patterns Player Poster Hall of Fame. Gatto has had a lasting impact on the E8 boards. Gatto upstaged our own superfluously spotty speller Superman....BTW, has Pep said how exited he is about Saterday!?!

Whatever happened to Superman?

Look no further than Our Lady Peace's 1997 hit single off their album Clumsy to find out what exactly happened to him.

Is that true?

If that were true then someone is hacking into his yahoo account to set his LLPPFFL team each week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2010, 11:56:45 AM
That's kind of a bizarre thing to post  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2010, 01:07:38 PM
Whoops, definitely should have clarified.  I meant in terms of in the posting patterns world.  Sorry about that. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 02:18:20 PM
Booby you got sniped over a simple (and kind of funny) misunderstanding.... i got yer +k back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2010, 03:06:43 PM
May the Gods smile upon you Max and bless you with a thousand virgins. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 18, 2010, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2010, 03:06:43 PM
May the Gods smile upon you Max and bless you with a thousand virgins. 

Booby has gone "freaky" on us............. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 19, 2010, 09:47:35 AM
Anyone unable to attend but interested in watching tomorrow's Alfred-Maritime game get to a webcast at the following:

http://saxons.alfred.edu/football/schedule.cfm

Then just click on "Watch live" and find the game on the list of webcasts.

On Saxon Warriors!


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 19, 2010, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

I remember someone outed a kid from Plymouth St. prior to the Cortland matchup two years ago...great stuff.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 19, 2010, 12:29:23 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 19, 2010, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

I remember someone outed a kid from Plymouth St. prior to the Cortland matchup two years ago...great stuff.

That was his brother using his email and computer out of his dorm room on campus...I thought you knew!  :-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 19, 2010, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 19, 2010, 12:29:23 PM
Quote from: clandfan on November 19, 2010, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 18, 2010, 08:24:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2010, 01:47:02 AM
Quote from: maxpower on November 18, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
Oh man, I missed it? What IS it with these Cortland kids? I think Gatto may be off the hook...

Not as bad as the Montclair player who tried to post on the Daily Dose this past weekend claiming he was a Rowan fan. (This is why the first comment from each poster is held for moderation!)

A compilation of the player postings and how they got caught would be riot.  There have been enough here in the east, I can only imagine the rest of the regions.

I remember someone outed a kid from Plymouth St. prior to the Cortland matchup two years ago...great stuff.

That was his brother using his email and computer out of his dorm room on campus...I thought you knew!  :-)


Worse yet....there have been coaches posting on these boards as well.  A student/athlete can be excused due to immaturity.....for a coach, its inexcusable.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 19, 2010, 04:39:17 PM
A wikipedia article and some tattling from Upstate took care of Mr. Fullen....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
The East Region teams are most likely to be 2-1 against teams outside of the region in the first round.  MSU beating HSC 16-0 currently, and DVC up 23-0 on Salisbury.  Looks like the middle range teams are holding up against the South, at least.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2010, 02:27:43 PM
Both teams are giving up points in the 4th quarter and making things interesting... DVC will likely win but MSU may be in trouble. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 04:44:58 PM
What an egg laid by SUNY Maritime.  It's wonderful to know the ECFC will now be receiving a Pool A bid for crowning its "champion."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2010, 04:48:01 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 04:44:58 PM
What an egg laid by SUNY Maritime.  It's wonderful to know the ECFC will now be receiving a Pool A bid for crowning its "champion."
Just another Pool A conference to push the edge of the "East Region" farther to the West and the South.   ;)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2010, 04:49:47 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 20, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
The East Region teams are most likely to be 2-1 against teams outside of the region in the first round.  MSU beating HSC 16-0 currently, and DVC up 23-0 on Salisbury.  Looks like the middle range teams are holding up against the South, at least.  
I thought Montclair would beat HSC, but I picked Salisbury to upset DVC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2010, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 04:44:58 PM
What an egg laid by SUNY Maritime.  It's wonderful to know the ECFC will now be receiving a Pool A bid for crowning its "champion."

Weren't you giving them a #1 seed last week??  :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 04:55:16 PM
10-0 Baby!  You are what your record says you are!   :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 20, 2010, 06:33:22 PM
So Cortland gave up 14 consecutive defensive points in the 4th. A 17 yard scoop n' score followed by an 89 yard pick 6 on the following drive!  The Dragons had a potential score negated in Endicotts favor.  Not sure how that makes me feel with Alfred coming up. 

On a side note....has anybody connected any dots (common opponents if any) between Endicott and Maritime to help see how Alfred and Cortland stack up?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2010, 06:36:18 PM
I don't really think there's any way to compare the two teams based on Today's games.  Maritime is so horrendous it's hard to tell. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2010, 06:37:28 PM
We both beat Ithaca, so it should be a good game as far as I can tell.  Winner has to go to Alliance, so who is the real winner?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together.  Was out running errand all day so I caught absolute zip of the game (sue me).  Anyone want to sum it up outside of the Press Release that I can read?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 21, 2010, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2010, 06:37:28 PM
We both beat Ithaca, so it should be a good game as far as I can tell.  Winner has to go to Alliance, so who is the real winner?

That's pretty funny.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2010, 10:50:59 AM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esquire.com%2Fcm%2Fesquire%2Fimages%2FBI%2Fcrying-baby-0509-lg.jpg&hash=2f4a5098948b86fa99dc76d4fe8c918636b5c8eb)

I usually smite someone once a month.  I am proud to be the person on these boards to smite david1959.  Clown.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedDragonFan on November 21, 2010, 11:02:41 AM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.

I might have went with the Endicott team played hard and right till the end and ended up scoring more points against a highly rated DIII defense, then any other team was able to do all season...just saying. 

Instead you whine about refs, bad calls and not playing at a neutral site...oh wait, check that...a neutral sight in your words.  Fact is, the defense that didn't impress you held the Endicott offense to 59 net rushing yards and despite giving up two scores, walked away with a win.  Your team played tough.  Be proud of that and build on it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedDragonFan on November 21, 2010, 11:05:29 AM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 21, 2010, 10:50:59 AM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.esquire.com%2Fcm%2Fesquire%2Fimages%2FBI%2Fcrying-baby-0509-lg.jpg&hash=2f4a5098948b86fa99dc76d4fe8c918636b5c8eb)

I usually smite someone once a month.  I am proud to be the person on these boards to smite david1959.  Clown.
A picture always says it best. Well done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2010, 11:07:35 AM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.navros.de%2Fimages%2Fdead%2520seagull.jpg&hash=071ce2c5f8c85277723b8101f6cb264268b644c0)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2010, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 16, 2010, 10:57:25 AM
NostraLD's 'East' Region(and a few others that i'm interested in) Predictions for this week:

Mount Union - 64 49
St. Lawrence - 0  0
Not a bad guess.  I'll take it...


Delaware Valley - 31  23
Salisbury - 17  12
Again, i'll take it...Close enough.

Cortland St. - 45  49
Endicott - 10  35
A little closer than I anticipated, BUT...How the hell were 42 points scored in the 4th quarter???

Alfred - 24  60
SUNY-Maritime - 6  0
I went against my own judgement in the last 2 weeks and started believing that an ECFC team is able to atleast step on the field with an E8 team...Gross...


'South'

Hampden-Sydney - 10  14
Montclair St. - 6  16
Well, I got the close low scoring game down, but screwed the pooch on the victor...Props to Montclair representing in the dirty South...


ECAC

St. John Fisher - 24  56
RPI - 10  13
My real prediction would have been closer to the real score, but I didn't want to ruffle Frank's panties and hurt anyone's feelings.

Springfield - 56  26
Mt. Ida - 12  17
Did Springfield even show up?




I won't shy away from my picks.  Results above...I'll take 6-1 in Vegas any day.  I guess Round 1 of the D3 playoffs is one of the easiest things to pick in most cases however.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2010, 01:11:54 PM
FYI - I went 15 for 16 in the Pick Em....That damn Montclair game!  What was I thinking!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSU Pride on November 21, 2010, 01:21:52 PM
Never underestimate the Redhawk! LOL
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cortlandfootball.com%2Fo_rly.jpg&hash=05c630313e42a47d79ec9e60fc91a1e600cb86f3)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2010, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.

Give me a break. You were down 42-14 with 10 minutes to go and scored two defensive TD's and a garbage time score. You had 234 total offensive yards and you're calling out their defense?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Buffalo State, William Patterson, Brockport State, Morrisville State and Western CT with a combined record of 12-38 doesn't make thier defense formidable.

Giving up 35 to a good Endicott team is not a bad thing but several NEFC teams like Maine Maritime, Curry, WNEC, Salve Regina and Framingham State are all teams that could score on Cortland.

They earned the home field and as they took advantage of it as they should have.

However, just thought that the referees were inconsistant whicj was dissapointing.




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 21, 2010, 05:06:58 PM
Oh come on.  2-8 in the NJAC is like 6-4 in the NEFC. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: clandfan on November 21, 2010, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Buffalo State, William Patterson, Brockport State, Morrisville State and Western CT with a combined record of 12-38 doesn't make thier defense formidable.

Giving up 35 to a good Endicott team is not a bad thing but several NEFC teams like Maine Maritime, Curry, WNEC, Salve Regina and Framingham State are all teams that could score on Cortland.

They earned the home field and as they took advantage of it as they should have.

However, just thought that the referees were inconsistant whicj was dissapointing.






Which is it....score on Cortland or beat Cortland?  you said 4 or 5 NEFC teams would have won that game.  now you say would have scored on Cortland....little difference there.  YOu were better than I would have given you credit for but...at best, YOu would have finished 6th in our league and that is a generous estimate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedDragonFan on November 21, 2010, 05:23:04 PM
42 zip Cortland beat Curry in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2008 as I recall. Have they improved since then? Don't recall even seeing them in the brackets...just saying. Endicott was the NEFC champs no? Why would anyone care about the teams you mentioned? There seasons ended before Endicotts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2010, 06:04:38 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Buffalo State, William Patterson, Brockport State, Morrisville State and Western CT with a combined record of 12-38 doesn't make thier defense formidable.

Giving up 35 to a good Endicott team is not a bad thing but several NEFC teams like Maine Maritime, Curry, WNEC, Salve Regina and Framingham State are all teams that could score on Cortland.

They earned the home field and as they took advantage of it as they should have.

However, just thought that the referees were inconsistant whicj was dissapointing.

You're funny. Do you take requests? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 21, 2010, 06:26:17 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
However, just thought that the referees were inconsistant whicj was dissapointing.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk85%2FAUPepBand%2FSourGrapesAreOutofSeason.jpg&hash=73b4f578671b71b94143abb9099fc13059d48f4a)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on November 21, 2010, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Buffalo State, William Patterson, Brockport State, Morrisville State and Western CT with a combined record of 12-38 doesn't make thier defense formidable.

Do some math Einstein – the NJAC is a ten team conference and three of the teams went a combined 27-3 during the regular season and were nationally ranked. In what scenario would you see the bottom teams in this conference with a winning record? And lest you forget, prior to joining the NJAC, WestConn and Brockport were NCAA playoff teams.

The way I see it Dave, Maine Maritime, Curry, WNEC, Salve Regina and Framingham State would look an awful lot like Morrisville and WestConn if they played an NJAC schedule. And I'll give Endicott the benefit of the doubt and say they would have given TCNJ a battle for fourth place – at best.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2010, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: phil on November 21, 2010, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Buffalo State, William Patterson, Brockport State, Morrisville State and Western CT with a combined record of 12-38 doesn't make thier defense formidable.

Do some math Einstein – the NJAC is a ten team conference and three of the teams went a combined 27-3 during the regular season and were nationally ranked. In what scenario would you see the bottom teams in this conference with a winning record? And lest you forget, prior to joining the NJAC, WestConn and Brockport were NCAA playoff teams.

The way I see it Dave, Maine Maritime, Curry, WNEC, Salve Regina and Framingham State would look an awful lot like Morrisville and WestConn if they played an NJAC schedule. And I'll give Endicott the benefit of the doubt and say they would have given TCNJ a battle for fourth place – at best.

Salve Regina does have a kick butt campus right on the water.  Very nice.  If you can't afford a Providence, RI mansion on the water... going to school at Salve is the next best thing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on November 21, 2010, 06:55:51 PM
...been to Salve. It's D3's and the East Coast's version of Pepperdine!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on November 21, 2010, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: phil on November 21, 2010, 06:55:51 PM
...been to Salve. It's D3's and the East Coast's version of Pepperdine!

If I had a brain, I would have figured out a way to go to Arizona, or Florida State, or Clemson, etc.  Hindsight is truly 20-20. Nothing against the women of South Jersey and Philadelphia, but we're talking major and minor leagues. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
What is it with the NEFC?  DP remembers 2 years ago some Plymouth State fan claiming that Cortland was "lucky" to beat them, even though the score was 31-14.  Same poster swore we had no chance against Curry, which we then beat 42-0.  

Just some quick factoids for the delirious:

The same SUNY Maritime which lost 60-0 to Alfred, beat 4-3 NEFC "power" Mass Maritime this season
Another better than average NEFC team, 4-3 Westfield State, lost 34-0 to Montclair
The NEFC is now 2-13 all-time in NCAA Playoff Competition.  The NJAC is 23-14.  Yes, that means the NEFC would need to win 21 of its next 22 NCAA playoff games just to equal the NJAC's record.

There is no NEFC team capable of beating any of the top 5 teams in the NJAC in 2010.  Not one.  Framingham would rank somewhere between 6th and 9th in the NJAC.  So while I respect your right to compete as a Pool A selection, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are absolutely delirious if you think your NEFC conference champion could win any other conference in D3 other than the ECFC.  I know that sounds harsh, but it's blatantly obvious to every other fan in D3 outside the NEFC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 21, 2010, 09:39:27 PM
Quote from: phil on November 21, 2010, 06:55:51 PM
...been to Salve. It's D3's and the East Coast's version of Pepperdine!

Pep has frequented Newport, RI many times and actually has friends there but has never stepped foot on the Salve Regina campus, although he's visited the mansions out on Bellevue Ave. (Pep's friend resides in the original farmhouse on the corner...the farmland was sold off for the mansions). Next visit, Pep will check out the campus!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 21, 2010, 09:42:41 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.

It takes a lot to outclass me as the pompous a** on these boards.  However, you, sir, have figured out a way.  Congratulations!  -k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 21, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
What is it with the NEFC?  DP remembers 2 years ago some Plymouth State fan claiming that Cortland was "lucky" to beat them, even though the score was 31-14.  Same poster swore we had no chance against Curry, which we then beat 42-0.  

Just some quick factoids for the delirious:

The same SUNY Maritime which lost 60-0 to Alfred, beat 4-3 NEFC "power" Mass Maritime this season
Another better than average NEFC team, 4-3 Westfield State, lost 34-0 to Montclair
The NEFC is now 2-13 all-time in NCAA Playoff Competition.  The NJAC is 23-14.  Yes, that means the NEFC would need to win 21 of its next 22 NCAA playoff games just to equal the NJAC's record.

There is no NEFC team capable of beating any of the top 5 teams in the NJAC in 2010.  Not one.  Framingham would rank somewhere between 6th and 9th in the NJAC.  So while I respect your right to compete as a Pool A selection, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are absolutely delirious if you think your NEFC conference champion could win any other conference in D3 other than the ECFC.  I know that sounds harsh, but it's blatantly obvious to every other fan in D3 outside the NEFC.

Oh, now, the UMAC and the NATHC probably belong on that list.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.


I'm going to call BS on this one.  I was walking out of the stadium and stood long enough to watch the teams shake hands, including the EC coaches which joined the back of the line.  Never once saw the "H" grovel to the EC coaching staff for missing calls.  Not that one would ever do so.  You ever see a baseball umpire admit his strike zone was wrong?

Honestly I can't think of one controversial call in the entire game.  The Cortland stands never erupted at the officials, and neither did the Endicott fans. 

I was impressed with Endicott for competing and keeping the game exciting.  The QB was very good, the OL did a fine job protecting him.  And I thought there was some good speed on defense.  99 looked like a stud DL to me.  It's really a shame there are fans like David out there who are incapable of doing what the Endicott players and coaches did after 60 minutes - shake hands and say "good game" and "good luck in the next round."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:59:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 21, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
Oh, now, the UMAC and the NATHC probably belong on that list.

I'll give you the NATHC.  But no way on the UMAC.  Greenville didn't embarrass itself against Augustana and Albion, and came within 10 points of Millikin.  I'd eat my hat if Framingham came within 21 points of Augustana.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 21, 2010, 10:15:42 PM
This year it swung the other way but living in UMAC country, I can tell you from experience that the best team in that league is not better than the good Curry teams were.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 21, 2010, 10:42:33 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 20, 2010, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: cstate19 on November 20, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Congrats goes to Cortland.  Cach Mac is putting one heck of a program together. 


I agree.  Have you seen some of the freshmen and sophomores on CState?  It's unreal.  This is not nearly our best team, the best is yet to come.

Was at the EC Cortland game. 4 or 5 of the NEFC teams could have won that game. At a neutral sight with neutral refs there would be a different out come. The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.

The daunting defense feasted on bottom feeders like 0-10 WConn., not impressed.


.......Dude.......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2010, 11:16:45 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 21, 2010, 10:13:04 AM
The overweight "U" seemed to always be in the way, and the older man "H" missed at least 3 big calls that he later apologized to the EC coaching staff for missing.


I'm going to call BS on this one.  I was walking out of the stadium and stood long enough to watch the teams shake hands, including the EC coaches which joined the back of the line.  Never once saw the "H" grovel to the EC coaching staff for missing calls.  Not that one would ever do so.  You ever see a baseball umpire admit his strike zone was wrong?

Honestly I can't think of one controversial call in the entire game.  The Cortland stands never erupted at the officials, and neither did the Endicott fans. 

I was impressed with Endicott for competing and keeping the game exciting.  The QB was very good, the OL did a fine job protecting him.  And I thought there was some good speed on defense.  99 looked like a stud DL to me.  It's really a shame there are fans like David out there who are incapable of doing what the Endicott players and coaches did after 60 minutes - shake hands and say "good game" and "good luck in the next round."

No, but in one of the classiest acts of 2010, Jim Joyce was absolutely inconsolable while admitting he blew it on Armando Galarraga's 'perfect' game.  Class does pay: in the next game Joyce umpired in Detroit, he was extremely nervous - he got a standing ovation. :)

Quote from: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:59:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 21, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
Oh, now, the UMAC and the NATHC probably belong on that list.

I'll give you the NATHC.  But no way on the UMAC.  Greenville didn't embarrass itself against Augustana and Albion, and came within 10 points of Millikin.  I'd eat my hat if Framingham came within 21 points of Augustana.


What's all this hatin' on the NathCon.  Just because their champion lost to North Park by 11 (the same NPU with a 67(?) game losing streak in the CCIW :P) ...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 05:28:57 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
What is it with the NEFC?  DP remembers 2 years ago some Plymouth State fan claiming that Cortland was "lucky" to beat them, even though the score was 31-14.  Same poster swore we had no chance against Curry, which we then beat 42-0.  

Just some quick factoids for the delirious:

The same SUNY Maritime which lost 60-0 to Alfred, beat 4-3 NEFC "power" Mass Maritime this season
Another better than average NEFC team, 4-3 Westfield State, lost 34-0 to Montclair
The NEFC is now 2-13 all-time in NCAA Playoff Competition.  The NJAC is 23-14.  Yes, that means the NEFC would need to win 21 of its next 22 NCAA playoff games just to equal the NJAC's record.

There is no NEFC team capable of beating any of the top 5 teams in the NJAC in 2010.  Not one.  Framingham would rank somewhere between 6th and 9th in the NJAC.  So while I respect your right to compete as a Pool A selection, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are absolutely delirious if you think your NEFC conference champion could win any other conference in D3 other than the ECFC.  I know that sounds harsh, but it's blatantly obvious to every other fan in D3 outside the NEFC.
I think you're refering to Maine Maritime. Don't sell the NEFC short, there were some quality teams in that league, like WNEC, Maine Maritime, Framingham St, and Curry, never said they would win other conferences. I'm pretty sure Endicott drove 7 hours on the bus each way for that game. They represented their conference well in a well played game by both teams. Move on, you have a big game this week against another quality opponent.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 22, 2010, 08:02:31 AM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 05:28:57 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
What is it with the NEFC?  DP remembers 2 years ago some Plymouth State fan claiming that Cortland was "lucky" to beat them, even though the score was 31-14.  Same poster swore we had no chance against Curry, which we then beat 42-0.  

Just some quick factoids for the delirious:

The same SUNY Maritime which lost 60-0 to Alfred, beat 4-3 NEFC "power" Mass Maritime this season
Another better than average NEFC team, 4-3 Westfield State, lost 34-0 to Montclair
The NEFC is now 2-13 all-time in NCAA Playoff Competition.  The NJAC is 23-14.  Yes, that means the NEFC would need to win 21 of its next 22 NCAA playoff games just to equal the NJAC's record.

There is no NEFC team capable of beating any of the top 5 teams in the NJAC in 2010.  Not one.  Framingham would rank somewhere between 6th and 9th in the NJAC.  So while I respect your right to compete as a Pool A selection, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are absolutely delirious if you think your NEFC conference champion could win any other conference in D3 other than the ECFC.  I know that sounds harsh, but it's blatantly obvious to every other fan in D3 outside the NEFC.
I think you're refering to Maine Maritime. Don't sell the NEFC short, there were some quality teams in that league, like WNEC, Maine Maritime, Framingham St, and Curry, never said they would win other conferences. I'm pretty sure Endicott drove 7 hours on the bus each way for that game. They represented their conference well in a well played game by both teams. Move on, you have a big game this week against another quality opponent.

Sorry man...you are way off base here.  If it wasn't for the ECFC, the NEFC would be far and away the absolute worst conference in the East Region.  What about the NEFC are we supposed to be impressed about?  Their 2-13 all-time record in the NCAA's?  Or the fact that it is made up 16 teams that decide to do nothing but play against each other in league play or in cross over games, beat up on the ECFC, and only rarely venture out to play the other strong conferences to the tune of 3 other games all year long before the playoffs where you lost all 3 games (Westfield State lost to Montclair, Endicott lost to RPI, and Salve Regina lost to Hartwick)?

We got it...you are a fan of the NEFC...and good for you on that.  Just don't come thumping your chest on here looking for some sort of respect when in reality your league plays almost as many non-conference games as the NESCAC (if we don't include cross over games here).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 22, 2010, 09:35:24 AM
On a related sidenote, you've got to give it up for david1959, -13K in only 3 posts! I've only been around here for a few years, but that has to be near a high score (iamhuge may have been close). Usually, that would mean that he is just a troll looking to stir some things up. But I think he believes what he is saying.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RedDragonFan on November 22, 2010, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 05:28:57 AM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 21, 2010, 09:32:23 PM
What is it with the NEFC?  DP remembers 2 years ago some Plymouth State fan claiming that Cortland was "lucky" to beat them, even though the score was 31-14.  Same poster swore we had no chance against Curry, which we then beat 42-0.  

Just some quick factoids for the delirious:

The same SUNY Maritime which lost 60-0 to Alfred, beat 4-3 NEFC "power" Mass Maritime this season
Another better than average NEFC team, 4-3 Westfield State, lost 34-0 to Montclair
The NEFC is now 2-13 all-time in NCAA Playoff Competition.  The NJAC is 23-14.  Yes, that means the NEFC would need to win 21 of its next 22 NCAA playoff games just to equal the NJAC's record.

There is no NEFC team capable of beating any of the top 5 teams in the NJAC in 2010.  Not one.  Framingham would rank somewhere between 6th and 9th in the NJAC.  So while I respect your right to compete as a Pool A selection, and I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are absolutely delirious if you think your NEFC conference champion could win any other conference in D3 other than the ECFC.  I know that sounds harsh, but it's blatantly obvious to every other fan in D3 outside the NEFC.
I think you're refering to Maine Maritime. Don't sell the NEFC short, there were some quality teams in that league, like WNEC, Maine Maritime, Framingham St, and Curry, never said they would win other conferences. I'm pretty sure Endicott drove 7 hours on the bus each way for that game. They represented their conference well in a well played game by both teams. Move on, you have a big game this week against another quality opponent.
My homage to Jonny Labcoat...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crunchgear.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F05%2Fsad-clown.jpg&hash=beef746f711ff4f22a10857aeff8baa1cf2ae71b)
David showing the refs he was not a happy clown due to the calls.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2010, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Doid23 on November 22, 2010, 09:35:24 AM
On a related sidenote, you've got to give it up for david1959, -13K in only 3 posts! I've only been around here for a few years, but that has to be near a high score (iamhuge may have been close). Usually, that would mean that he is just a troll looking to stir some things up. But I think he believes what he is saying.

I tried to -K him again this morning but apparently my 24 hours isn't up yet.  I really find it difficult to believe that this guy is serious.  He's trying to pump up the NEFC.  ONLY a Curry person has any clout to open their mouth.  I think we've pseudo-accepted Curry into the 'real' football club.  Endicott, WNEC, Framingham, then entire ECFC, etc etc.......That is more pop-warner like. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 22, 2010, 11:32:38 AM
I had a thought over the weekend about the East's recent inability to produce a national team.  This has all been covered ad nauseum already, so I thought it might be interesting to consider what it would take for an East team to grow into that category and then assess where East teams are currently along that path.

Since winning breeds more winning, whether from additional exposure, institutional support or practice time, I think winning in the postseason is the primary criterion.  Secondary criteria are also important and I would list them in order of facilities, coaching and cost.

So, I decided to weight playoff games played for East teams over the past 5 years with each previous year's games worth less to get an idea of which clubs have the best chance of attracting those student-atheletes which provide the greatest marginal difference toward national prominence.  I've awarded 5 points per game this year, 4 for games last year, 3 in 2008 and so on.  Also, a double monkey-stompout negates any points for that game since I'm not sure that's too great a recruiting bullet-point.  And finally, I think it takes more than just losing in the first round of the playoffs every year, so the cutoff for current teams with a legitimate chance to grow into a national contender over the next 3 to 5 years needs to have more than 15 total points.

Without further ado, here is the current list (giving this weekend's points to the four remaining East teams in the playoffs, assuming none of them gets double monkey-stompedout this weekend):

Cortland 19
Del Valley 18
Montclair 18
----------------
Alfred 14
Albright 12
St. John Fisher 10
Hobart 9
Curry 8
Endicott 5
Ithaca 5
Lycoming 3
Rowan 3
Springfield 2
Wilkes 2
Union 1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2010, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 22, 2010, 09:44:29 AM
Quote from: Doid23 on November 22, 2010, 09:35:24 AM
On a related sidenote, you've got to give it up for david1959, -13K in only 3 posts! I've only been around here for a few years, but that has to be near a high score (iamhuge may have been close). Usually, that would mean that he is just a troll looking to stir some things up. But I think he believes what he is saying.

I tried to -K him again this morning but apparently my 24 hours isn't up yet.  I really find it difficult to believe that this guy is serious.  He's trying to pump up the NEFC.  ONLY a Curry person has any clout to open their mouth.  I think we've pseudo-accepted Curry into the 'real' football club.  Endicott, WNEC, Framingham, then entire ECFC, etc etc.......That is more pop-warner like. 

dlip is so sorry he missed the "David" show this weekend but there is no question that his first, second, and third posts are worth a minus K.  :-*
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2010, 12:09:04 PM
dlip must begin his "crow feast" this afternoon after his way off call on the Del Val Salisbury game. Maybe it's dlip's man crush on Chris Sharpe and that vaunted triple option that fogs his glasses. By the way, not that it is of any significance, but what the **** happened at Springfield Saturday? dlip is willing to bet more underclassman played in that game than any other this season, you know, those other 1500 players that the pride bring out for warm-ups that never see the field. :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 22, 2010, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 22, 2010, 12:09:04 PM
By the way, not that it is of any significance, but what the **** happened at Springfield Saturday? dlip is willing to bet more underclassman played in that game than any other this season, you know, those other 1500 players that the pride bring out for warm-ups that never see the field. :D

I never put any weight on ECAC results, especially now with 4 games. Too many variables, anticlimactic and disappointing for some teams, great for others.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2010, 12:38:02 PM
Here's just a random thought.  David believes that 4 or 5 NEFC teams could've beaten Cortland Saturday.  Interesting -- why didn't those 4 or 5 teams beat Maine Maritime or Endicott to get to the Playoff in the first place?  Much like LL watchers can't really argue about the idea that SLU was the best of the bunch in the LL this season for a variety of reasons, how can someone who must be an Endicott fan (since it would be strange if they made the trip to South/Central New York for just general NEFC fan reasons) basically make the claim that their team was only a mid-pack team in the NEFC this year -- even though they won the conference?!

In my judgment, no NEFC team could have or would have beaten Cortland this year unless Cortland suffered multiple injuries and/or other major problems during or just before the game.

David, any reason you believe your conference champion wasn't really the cream of the conference?!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2010, 12:38:02 PM
Here's just a random thought.  David believes that 4 or 5 NEFC teams could've beaten Cortland Saturday.  Interesting -- why didn't those 4 or 5 teams beat Maine Maritime or Endicott to get to the Playoff in the first place?  Much like LL watchers can't really argue about the idea that SLU was the best of the bunch in the LL this season for a variety of reasons, how can someone who must be an Endicott fan (since it would be strange if they made the trip to South/Central New York for just general NEFC fan reasons) basically make the claim that their team was only a mid-pack team in the NEFC this year -- even though they won the conference?!

In my judgment, no NEFC team could have or would have beaten Cortland this year unless Cortland suffered multiple injuries and/or other major problems during or just before the game.

David, any reason you believe your conference champion wasn't really the cream of the conference?!

Endicott was the best team in the NEFC this year. From what I saw of Cortland on Saturday, WNEC, Curry, Framingham, Salve and Maine Maritime would have all been competitive games. The NEFC is getting tougher.

EC lost a close game to RPI, who inturn beat Alfred, who beat Ithaca who was barely beaten by Cortland.

CS gave up 35 points to Endicott, they had 3 turnovers 2 for TDs and a blocked punt. Just think the game was closer than the Cortland faithful here believe. A few calls the other way and maybe the outcome would have been different. I thought Pitcher went over the LOS on his TD pass, I thought the "defenseless receiver call was incorrect and I thought that the first on-sides kick was recovered by EC. The CS player went in front of the 10 yard limit to field the ball which he mishandled before getting hit and that penalty really hurt.  All those calls ended with touchdowns for CS.

However CS did what they needed to do, but I bet they were suprised it was that tough of a game. I thought once the Cortland RB took himself out of the game that Endicott had a chance. They will be back next year 20 of 22 starters returninfg and now they won't be as happy to just get there. Either way, it was a fun game to watch, though I was suprised even with CS giving out free tickets there may have been more Endicott people there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2010, 01:50:14 PM
That's not quite what you said the first time -- so, I'll take that latest post to be a retraction of your first post.  Yet, I watched the scores all day as I had scoreboard duty on D3football.com Saturday -- and it was never closer than 14 points in the second half.  It would've taken a lot of balls bouncing in Endicott's direction to win.

And please, spare me the laws of syllogism with the four-way link between Endicott and Cortland.  RPI beat Alfred, who beat SJF.  Thus, RPI should've beaten SJF by 30.  Oh, wait, it was SJF by 43.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on November 22, 2010, 02:28:45 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Endicott was the best team in the NEFC this year. From what I saw of Cortland on Saturday, WNEC, Curry, Framingham, Salve and Maine Maritime would have all been competitive games. The NEFC is getting tougher.

EC lost a close game to RPI, who inturn beat Alfred, who beat Ithaca who was barely beaten by Cortland.

CS gave up 35 points to Endicott, they had 3 turnovers 2 for TDs and a blocked punt. Just think the game was closer than the Cortland faithful here believe. A few calls the other way and maybe the outcome would have been different. I thought Pitcher went over the LOS on his TD pass, I thought the "defenseless receiver call was incorrect and I thought that the first on-sides kick was recovered by EC. The CS player went in front of the 10 yard limit to field the ball which he mishandled before getting hit and that penalty really hurt.  All those calls ended with touchdowns for CS.

David, now I'm on board. Your articulate, cogent argument for Endicott has made me see the light. Therefore, based on your explanation, I declare that The College of New Jersey is better than Mount Union!
With just a few game comparisons – it became very clear:
College of NJ    beat    Brockport St   24 - 21
Brockport St   beat    Wm Paterson   30 - 16
Wm Paterson   beat    King's PA   14 - 7
King's PA   beat    FDU Madison   45 - 14
FDU Madison   beat    Apprentice   28 - 14
Apprentice   beat    Greensboro   9 - 7
Greensboro   beat    Methodist   22 - 19
Methodist   beat    Maryville TN   17 - 14
Maryville TN   beat    LaGrange   20 - 17
LaGrange   beat    Rhodes   42 - 28
Rhodes   beat    Washington MO   14 - 10
Washington MO   beat    Case Western   14 - 13
Case Western   beat    John Carroll   30 - 13
John Carroll   beat    Baldwin-Wallace   31 - 28
Baldwin-Wallace is better than Mt Union because Baldwin-Wallace beat Marietta 39 - 9
while Mt Union only beat Marietta 28 - 14

Therefore, College of NJ is better than Mt Union in 2010.


Thanks Dave, you're an astute fellow!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 22, 2010, 02:41:15 PM
Quote from: phil on November 22, 2010, 02:28:45 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Endicott was the best team in the NEFC this year. From what I saw of Cortland on Saturday, WNEC, Curry, Framingham, Salve and Maine Maritime would have all been competitive games. The NEFC is getting tougher.

EC lost a close game to RPI, who inturn beat Alfred, who beat Ithaca who was barely beaten by Cortland.

CS gave up 35 points to Endicott, they had 3 turnovers 2 for TDs and a blocked punt. Just think the game was closer than the Cortland faithful here believe. A few calls the other way and maybe the outcome would have been different. I thought Pitcher went over the LOS on his TD pass, I thought the "defenseless receiver call was incorrect and I thought that the first on-sides kick was recovered by EC. The CS player went in front of the 10 yard limit to field the ball which he mishandled before getting hit and that penalty really hurt.  All those calls ended with touchdowns for CS.

David, now I'm on board. Your articulate, cogent argument for Endicott has made me see the light. Therefore, based on your explanation, I declare that The College of New Jersey is better than Mount Union!
With just a few game comparisons – it became very clear:
College of NJ    beat    Brockport St   24 - 21
Brockport St   beat    Wm Paterson   30 - 16
Wm Paterson   beat    King's PA   14 - 7
King's PA   beat    FDU Madison   45 - 14
FDU Madison   beat    Apprentice   28 - 14
Apprentice   beat    Greensboro   9 - 7
Greensboro   beat    Methodist   22 - 19
Methodist   beat    Maryville TN   17 - 14
Maryville TN   beat    LaGrange   20 - 17
LaGrange   beat    Rhodes   42 - 28
Rhodes   beat    Washington MO   14 - 10
Washington MO   beat    Case Western   14 - 13
Case Western   beat    John Carroll   30 - 13
John Carroll   beat    Baldwin-Wallace   31 - 28
Baldwin-Wallace is better than Mt Union because Baldwin-Wallace beat Marietta 39 - 9
while Mt Union only beat Marietta 28 - 14

Therefore, College of NJ is better than Mt Union in 2010.


Thanks Dave, you're an astute fellow!


BOL!!  indeed phil....well done... +k   and end the playoffs and declare college of NJ national champion!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:04 PM
To David,
In all seriousness, stay on the boards.  You should read others posts and continue to interject your own thoughts.  There aren't many NEFC posters on here....it is interesting to hear others opinions of their teams and or conferences (even though many may not agree with you).

Think about how interesting 'iamhuge' was about 15 months ago.  He was a true gem and left soon after is initial flurry, never to be heard from again.

Hell, I think the main reason 'Doid' got hooked on these boards was because of the entertainment 'iamhuge' provided him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 22, 2010, 03:04:20 PM
I know this probably belongs on the ECAC board, but I don't think many people go over there.....

Anyone else look at the Springfield/Mt. Ida box-score?  Mt. Ida threw the ball 57 times for 373 yards......Springfield threw the ball a total of 3 times, but rushed for 358 yards....talk about teams with contrasting styles!!!

Finally, Springfield's place-kickers name is Ricky Peacock.....


HEY PRIDE!!!!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 22, 2010, 03:06:12 PM
Well done Phil, +K!  

Your reasoning holds up to classic scientific scrutiny, including Sir Bedevere's proof that a certain woman was a witch, because she weighed as much as a duck, which floats on water much like wood.  And why do we burn witches?  Because they are made of wood.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2010, 12:38:02 PM
Here's just a random thought.  David believes that 4 or 5 NEFC teams could've beaten Cortland Saturday.  Interesting -- why didn't those 4 or 5 teams beat Maine Maritime or Endicott to get to the Playoff in the first place?  Much like LL watchers can't really argue about the idea that SLU was the best of the bunch in the LL this season for a variety of reasons, how can someone who must be an Endicott fan (since it would be strange if they made the trip to South/Central New York for just general NEFC fan reasons) basically make the claim that their team was only a mid-pack team in the NEFC this year -- even though they won the conference?!

In my judgment, no NEFC team could have or would have beaten Cortland this year unless Cortland suffered multiple injuries and/or other major problems during or just before the game.

David, any reason you believe your conference champion wasn't really the cream of the conference?!

Endicott was the best team in the NEFC this year. From what I saw of Cortland on Saturday, WNEC, Curry, Framingham, Salve and Maine Maritime would have all been competitive games. The NEFC is getting tougher.

EC lost a close game to RPI, who inturn beat Alfred, who beat Ithaca who was barely beaten by Cortland.

RPI-Endicott. A Week 2 game. It was Endicott's second game and RPI's first. Most coaches will tell you that the biggest improvement came between the first and second game, leaving Endicott with a significant advantage.

RPI-Alfred. The wind in this game was a huge equalizer. Are you aware of the details?

Ithaca-Cortland. One of the fiercest anything-can-happen rivalries in Division III.

David: Games aren't played on paper. You certainly can't make comparisons four levels deep while remaining ignorant of the details of these games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2010, 03:17:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2010, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 22, 2010, 12:38:02 PM
Here's just a random thought.  David believes that 4 or 5 NEFC teams could've beaten Cortland Saturday.  Interesting -- why didn't those 4 or 5 teams beat Maine Maritime or Endicott to get to the Playoff in the first place?  Much like LL watchers can't really argue about the idea that SLU was the best of the bunch in the LL this season for a variety of reasons, how can someone who must be an Endicott fan (since it would be strange if they made the trip to South/Central New York for just general NEFC fan reasons) basically make the claim that their team was only a mid-pack team in the NEFC this year -- even though they won the conference?!

In my judgment, no NEFC team could have or would have beaten Cortland this year unless Cortland suffered multiple injuries and/or other major problems during or just before the game.

David, any reason you believe your conference champion wasn't really the cream of the conference?!

Endicott was the best team in the NEFC this year. From what I saw of Cortland on Saturday, WNEC, Curry, Framingham, Salve and Maine Maritime would have all been competitive games. The NEFC is getting tougher.

EC lost a close game to RPI, who inturn beat Alfred, who beat Ithaca who was barely beaten by Cortland.

RPI-Endicott. A Week 2 game. It was Endicott's second game and RPI's first. Most coaches will tell you that the biggest improvement came between the first and second game, leaving Endicott with a significant advantage.

RPI-Alfred. The wind in this game was a huge equalizer. Are you aware of the details?

Ithaca-Cortland. One of the fiercest anything-can-happen rivalries in Division III.

David: Games aren't played on paper. You certainly can't make comparisons four levels deep while remaining ignorant of the details of these games.

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UNITYYYYYYYY!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 22, 2010, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:04 PM
To David,
In all seriousness, stay on the boards.  You should read others posts and continue to interject your own thoughts.  There aren't many NEFC posters on here....it is interesting to hear others opinions of their teams and or conferences (even though many may not agree with you).

Think about how interesting 'iamhuge' was about 15 months ago.  He was a true gem and left soon after is initial flurry, never to be heard from again.

Hell, I think the main reason 'Doid' got hooked on these boards was because of the entertainment 'iamhuge' provided him.

Huge is still around, but his son chose F&M so he's been on the Centennial boards.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 22, 2010, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: phil on November 22, 2010, 02:28:45 PM
Quote from: david1959 on November 22, 2010, 01:36:16 PM
Endicott was the best team in the NEFC this year. From what I saw of Cortland on Saturday, WNEC, Curry, Framingham, Salve and Maine Maritime would have all been competitive games. The NEFC is getting tougher.

EC lost a close game to RPI, who inturn beat Alfred, who beat Ithaca who was barely beaten by Cortland.

CS gave up 35 points to Endicott, they had 3 turnovers 2 for TDs and a blocked punt. Just think the game was closer than the Cortland faithful here believe. A few calls the other way and maybe the outcome would have been different. I thought Pitcher went over the LOS on his TD pass, I thought the "defenseless receiver call was incorrect and I thought that the first on-sides kick was recovered by EC. The CS player went in front of the 10 yard limit to field the ball which he mishandled before getting hit and that penalty really hurt.  All those calls ended with touchdowns for CS.

David, now I'm on board. Your articulate, cogent argument for Endicott has made me see the light. Therefore, based on your explanation, I declare that The College of New Jersey is better than Mount Union!
With just a few game comparisons – it became very clear:
College of NJ    beat    Brockport St   24 - 21
Brockport St   beat    Wm Paterson   30 - 16
Wm Paterson   beat    King's PA   14 - 7
King's PA   beat    FDU Madison   45 - 14
FDU Madison   beat    Apprentice   28 - 14
Apprentice   beat    Greensboro   9 - 7
Greensboro   beat    Methodist   22 - 19
Methodist   beat    Maryville TN   17 - 14
Maryville TN   beat    LaGrange   20 - 17
LaGrange   beat    Rhodes   42 - 28
Rhodes   beat    Washington MO   14 - 10
Washington MO   beat    Case Western   14 - 13
Case Western   beat    John Carroll   30 - 13
John Carroll   beat    Baldwin-Wallace   31 - 28
Baldwin-Wallace is better than Mt Union because Baldwin-Wallace beat Marietta 39 - 9
while Mt Union only beat Marietta 28 - 14

Therefore, College of NJ is better than Mt Union in 2010.


Thanks Dave, you're an astute fellow!


Well done!  +k



Quote from: DanPadavona on November 22, 2010, 03:06:12 PM
Well done Phil, +K! 

Your reasoning holds up to classic scientific scrutiny, including Sir Bedevere's proof that a certain woman was a witch, because she weighed as much as a duck, which floats on water much like wood.  And why do we burn witches?  Because they are made of wood.


Doubly well done.  You also get +k for quoting the best movie ever made.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 22, 2010, 05:59:40 PM
Quote from: Union89 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:04 PM
To David,
In all seriousness, stay on the boards.  You should read others posts and continue to interject your own thoughts.  There aren't many NEFC posters on here....it is interesting to hear others opinions of their teams and or conferences (even though many may not agree with you).

Think about how interesting 'iamhuge' was about 15 months ago.  He was a true gem and left soon after is initial flurry, never to be heard from again.

Hell, I think the main reason 'Doid' got hooked on these boards was because of the entertainment 'iamhuge' provided him.

How seriously can I can't take someone once dubbed "Conrad Dobler" now getting all Rodney King on us? Especially after you posted iamhuge jr's mug shot on the LL board.

And, yes, I loved iamhuge, for he was the greatest poster of all time. So don't tarnish his greatness by comparing david1959 to him, he's not even in the same galaxy (although he is making -k history every time he posts). iamhuge was a superstar!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2010, 06:33:55 PM
Can anyone get some clips of these "calls" that went Cortlands way?  I'd love to see them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6

St. Thomas - 42
Linfield - 35

North Central - 28
Ohio Northern - 24

Thomas More - 21
Mary Hardin-Baylor - 17

Wheaton - 31
Bethel - 21

Cortland St. - 42
Alfred - 38

Thanksgiving Day

Lowell - 35
Haverhill - 6
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 23, 2010, 11:09:43 AM
QuoteMount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

dlip really doesn't know what to make of this game. Del Val shut dlip up last week and are really, in dlip's opinion, the East's only hope against MUC. dlip thinks this is a solid prediciton by lew and hopes the score will be even closer and even flipped with the Aggies coming out on top. That would be ****ing fantastic!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 11:13:45 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.

My fear about DelVal is the same fear I had after the Wesley game -- the offense seems somewhat suspect again.  DelVal put up about as many points against Salisbury as Union did this season -- a banged-up Union offense.  It sounds like DelVal may be laboring a bit down the stretch here.  I hope they keep it close.  I'm just not sure if the offense can put up points against another excellent defense.  We shall see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 23, 2010, 11:14:27 AM
Jonny Labcoat getting into the fray:

UWW-  42
Trine- 14

Mt. Union-  44
Del Vall-     12

Wesley-  35
Montcliar- 14

Linfield -  27
St. Thomas- 24

North Central- 14
Ohio Northern- 28

Thomas Moore- 42
Mary Hardin-B-  22

Wheaton- 35
Bethel- 24

Cortland-  14
Alfred- 28

Turkey Day

Needham 28
Wellesley 14

Brookline 7
Newton North- 30
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 23, 2010, 12:01:40 PM
+k for the lot of you that made me read so much!!
David-thanks for the humor.
Been a while since someone pushed a button on here like that.
And when it comes to these boards--"You dont come to las vegas and talk to a man like MO Greene like that!" :P
I agree with LD on a few of the picks- the UMU Del Val game will be close- and dont be suprised by the UWW outcome either.
Happy thanksgiving all- Safe travels and good luck to AU!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 23, 2010, 12:38:52 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Whitewater's slow start against Franklin as they were starting a back-up QB that had a total of 1 career passing attempt prior to that game.  UWW's starting QB (Blanchard) slightly injured this thumb on his throwing hand and they held him out.  He warmed up and could have played if really needed, but it never got to that point.  The UWW offensive game plan was understandably very conservative to start the game with a young QB.  As the game wore on they opened it up more.   Would be shocked if Trine is within 28 points.

On the MTU/Del Val game, I think you might actually be right with the spread, though I don't think the scores will be that high.  Mount's defense is good, but very young and they just got younger as they lost a starting DE last week that was 2nd on the team in sacks (7), 2nd in tackles for loss (17) and 3rd on the team in overall tackles (62).    Offensively they're young too and banged up.  They've been shuffling the O-line all season and their #2 receiver was injured last week too.  Not a good game health-wise for the Raiders against SLU >:(  I also think everyone is looking too much at the "Mount Union name" and not their actual season.  They're stilling winning, but this isn't anywhere near the Mount teams you guys are used to seeing.  The Mount last team this young, inconsistent and honestly limited talent-wise was 2004 or even clear back to 1994. 

If there was ever a chance to beat Mount, it's now.  That or wait until LK retires.

On Wesley/Montclair, I could see your score happening.  And I could see MSU pissing down their leg and getting drilled.  

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 23, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 23, 2010, 12:38:52 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Whitewater's slow start against Franklin as they were starting a back-up QB that had a total of 1 career passing attempt prior to that game.  UWW's starting QB (Blanchard) slightly injured this thumb on his throwing hand and they held him out.  He warmed up and could have played if really needed, but it never got to that point.  The UWW offensive game plan was understandably very conservative to start the game with a young QB.  As the game wore on they opened it up more.   Would be shocked if Trine is within 28 points.

On the MTU/Del Val game, I think you might actually be right with the spread, though I don't think the scores will be that high.  Mount's defense is good, but very young and they just got younger as they lost a starting DE last week that was 2nd on the team in sacks (7), 2nd in tackles for loss (17) and 3rd on the team in overall tackles (62).    Offensively they're young too and banged up.  They've been shuffling the O-line all season and their #2 receiver was injured last week too.  Not a good game health-wise for the Raiders against SLU >:(  I also think everyone is looking too much at the "Mount Union name" and not their actual season.  They're stilling winning, but this isn't anywhere near the Mount teams you guys are used to seeing.  The Mount last team this young, inconsistent and honestly limited talent-wise was 2004 or even clear back to 1994. 

If there was ever a chance to beat Mount, it's now.  That or wait until LK retires.

On Wesley/Montclair, I could see your score happening.  And I could see MSU pissing down their leg and getting drilled.  



Again HScoach you mention how vulnerable Mount Union is this year.  I feel like this is going to be a set up for if an Eastern team fails to take them out again this year you will all say how we couldn't even beat one of your weaker teams.  Not saying that is what people will say, it just feels like that is where the conversations will go next time the East clamors for respect or says we as a region are getting screwed...because let's be honest you know that conversation will take place again next year if things remain status quo this year.  So let me ask, why then if Mount Union is so vulnerable were none of the 9 Northern teams and 1 Western team able to beat them this year?  I'll throw out the bottom 3 of your conference and just assume they are terrible...but for the other 7 teams you guys faced on your schedule that proved they could win some games...if Mount Union is so down, why were none of them able to defeat Mount Union? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 23, 2010, 01:40:33 PM
Forget whether this is a weaker Mount Union team or not, the Larries have shown us how to take down the machine.  The first two opponents need to wear them down so by the time the regional finals arrive UMU is down to their third-stringers and it'll be a game!

Also, for consideration as ammunition against the "East is weak" meme is the 2-0 record against the South this tournament.  Make it 3-0, Montclair on our way to an all-East Stagg!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 23, 2010, 01:51:08 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 23, 2010, 01:40:33 PM
Forget whether this is a weaker Mount Union team or not, the Larries have shown us how to take down the machine.  The first two opponents need to wear them down so by the time the regional finals arrive UMU is down to their third-stringers and it'll be a game!

Also, for consideration as ammunition against the "East is weak" meme is the 2-0 record against the South this tournament.  Make it 3-0, Montclair on our way to an all-East Stagg!

I would love for Montclair to run the table to the semis...that would be a quick way to demolish the theory that the East is the weakest region, and prove that the South region has been getting a pass all along.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Garnet on November 23, 2010, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 22, 2010, 03:06:12 PM
Well done Phil, +K!  

Your reasoning holds up to classic scientific scrutiny, including Sir Bedevere's proof that a certain woman was a witch, because she weighed as much as a duck, which floats on water much like wood.  And why do we burn witches?  Because they are made of wood.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g&feature=related)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2010, 03:46:01 PM
Quote from: Garnet on November 23, 2010, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 22, 2010, 03:06:12 PM
Well done Phil, +K!  

Your reasoning holds up to classic scientific scrutiny, including Sir Bedevere's proof that a certain woman was a witch, because she weighed as much as a duck, which floats on water much like wood.  And why do we burn witches?  Because they are made of wood.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g&feature=related)


Doid,
You need to watch this!!!  There are some classic shots of 'Chainmail'.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on November 23, 2010, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 23, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 23, 2010, 12:38:52 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Whitewater's slow start against Franklin as they were starting a back-up QB that had a total of 1 career passing attempt prior to that game.  UWW's starting QB (Blanchard) slightly injured this thumb on his throwing hand and they held him out.  He warmed up and could have played if really needed, but it never got to that point.  The UWW offensive game plan was understandably very conservative to start the game with a young QB.  As the game wore on they opened it up more.   Would be shocked if Trine is within 28 points.

On the MTU/Del Val game, I think you might actually be right with the spread, though I don't think the scores will be that high.  Mount's defense is good, but very young and they just got younger as they lost a starting DE last week that was 2nd on the team in sacks (7), 2nd in tackles for loss (17) and 3rd on the team in overall tackles (62).    Offensively they're young too and banged up.  They've been shuffling the O-line all season and their #2 receiver was injured last week too.  Not a good game health-wise for the Raiders against SLU >:(  I also think everyone is looking too much at the "Mount Union name" and not their actual season.  They're stilling winning, but this isn't anywhere near the Mount teams you guys are used to seeing.  The Mount last team this young, inconsistent and honestly limited talent-wise was 2004 or even clear back to 1994.  

If there was ever a chance to beat Mount, it's now.  That or wait until LK retires.

On Wesley/Montclair, I could see your score happening.  And I could see MSU pissing down their leg and getting drilled.  



Again HScoach you mention how vulnerable Mount Union is this year.  I feel like this is going to be a set up for if an Eastern team fails to take them out again this year you will all say how we couldn't even beat one of your weaker teams.  Not saying that is what people will say, it just feels like that is where the conversations will go next time the East clamors for respect or says we as a region are getting screwed...because let's be honest you know that conversation will take place again next year if things remain status quo this year.  So let me ask, why then if Mount Union is so vulnerable were none of the 9 Northern teams and 1 Western team able to beat them this year?  I'll throw out the bottom 3 of your conference and just assume they are terrible...but for the other 7 teams you guys faced on your schedule that proved they could win some games...if Mount Union is so down, why were none of them able to defeat Mount Union?  

I'll chime in on this one--I agree that we (UMU) are not as strong as we have been in the past.  As a long time fan (going on 20 years now) this is one of the youngest and least experienced teams we have ever had--but remember that we are comparing this year's team to our previous teams.  It's not that this team is bad, by any means--it's just that we are not anywhere near as confident (cocky) this year as we have been in the past.  Usually we are re-loading with Jr's and Sr's with multiple years of playing experience--including post season.  This year we have a sophomore quarterback and several true freshmen playing first and second team.  It's not that we think the team is weak necessarily, just not as strong as they have been in the past.

On the other hand--with our success this year, I look forward to the next two years.  Barring anything big like LK's retirement we should be really kicking some @$$ in the next two years.

Here's to a safe and sane playoff weekend--good luck to all teams and players--

And, oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving--and safe travels to you and yours!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 23, 2010, 06:02:56 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 23, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 23, 2010, 12:38:52 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Whitewater's slow start against Franklin as they were starting a back-up QB that had a total of 1 career passing attempt prior to that game.  UWW's starting QB (Blanchard) slightly injured this thumb on his throwing hand and they held him out.  He warmed up and could have played if really needed, but it never got to that point.  The UWW offensive game plan was understandably very conservative to start the game with a young QB.  As the game wore on they opened it up more.   Would be shocked if Trine is within 28 points.

On the MTU/Del Val game, I think you might actually be right with the spread, though I don't think the scores will be that high.  Mount's defense is good, but very young and they just got younger as they lost a starting DE last week that was 2nd on the team in sacks (7), 2nd in tackles for loss (17) and 3rd on the team in overall tackles (62).    Offensively they're young too and banged up.  They've been shuffling the O-line all season and their #2 receiver was injured last week too.  Not a good game health-wise for the Raiders against SLU >:(  I also think everyone is looking too much at the "Mount Union name" and not their actual season.  They're stilling winning, but this isn't anywhere near the Mount teams you guys are used to seeing.  The Mount last team this young, inconsistent and honestly limited talent-wise was 2004 or even clear back to 1994.  

If there was ever a chance to beat Mount, it's now.  That or wait until LK retires.

On Wesley/Montclair, I could see your score happening.  And I could see MSU pissing down their leg and getting drilled.  



Again HScoach you mention how vulnerable Mount Union is this year.  I feel like this is going to be a set up for if an Eastern team fails to take them out again this year you will all say how we couldn't even beat one of your weaker teams.  Not saying that is what people will say, it just feels like that is where the conversations will go next time the East clamors for respect or says we as a region are getting screwed...because let's be honest you know that conversation will take place again next year if things remain status quo this year.  So let me ask, why then if Mount Union is so vulnerable were none of the 9 Northern teams and 1 Western team able to beat them this year?  I'll throw out the bottom 3 of your conference and just assume they are terrible...but for the other 7 teams you guys faced on your schedule that proved they could win some games...if Mount Union is so down, why were none of them able to defeat Mount Union?  

The reason they couldn't beat Mount is because a "down Mount" is still better than them.  It might not always show up in the box score, but the difference is whether easily Mount drills everyone 56-7 or whether they have struggled to beat those same teams.  They're still winning by good margins, but it's been a lot tougher to get there.  It's taken longer, more methodical drives to get their yards and points because they aren't as explosive.  Especially on the ground.  And it's taken longer into the games for them to get comfortable.  It's hard to explain, but there are different ways to beat someone 51-0.

I think you're missing my point.  I'm not saying Mount isn't good, because they are.  I'm not saying they can't win the title, because they could.  It's just that this team isn't as talented or as experienced as the ones you guys have seen over the last few years.  They're still a Top 5 team caliber team, however in my mind is they are NOT a clear #1 or #2 that is untouchable to 99% of D3.  I think there are probably 10-15 teams that would have a shot to beat this Mount team if the opponent played very well.  However there have been years that it would have taken a really off day by Mount for any other than the top 2 or 3 teams to beat them.  That probably sounds really arrogant, but after following them since before LK was the coach, I can say that there have been some great teams that weren't going to lose unless it "wasn't their day".  

Last year's team beat Wesley 24-7 by running wildcat with Cecil Shorts.  Their first 2 possession resulted in quite easy, long scoring drives which led to 10 points.  3rd drive gets QB Rocco knocked out and Mount flounders around for a while before Cecil blew the game open with his legs.  IMHO, this year's team would need every hand on deck to beat Wesley.  Not saying they COULDN'T beat Wesley, just that it will be a lot tougher than last year.  From what I saw last year, if Rocco plays the whole game then Mount wins by 28+ points.

I'm not trying to lay the ground work for some future argument.    Just simply trying to give an honest comparison of where this team stacks up against the Michlie & Kmic led teams that you're used to seeing.

However before you make your reservations for Round 3 and beyond, the '05 team was a mess in the regular season and lost to Ohio Northern to only right the ship an unknown RB with a name no one knew how to pronounce and a back-up QB that no one believed could actually throw the ball beyond 10 yards.  Luckily for us that season turned out just fine.    Which could be exactly what this season ends up being.  Or it could be like '04 where the team looked good on paper but just never seemed very consistent and lost to MHB in the semi's at home.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 23, 2010, 06:25:07 PM
HS Coach, per your below quote, I don't see it happening. Time will tell. ;)

"On Wesley/Montclair, I could see your score happening.  And I could see MSU pissing down their leg and getting drilled." 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2010, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: theaprof on November 23, 2010, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 23, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 23, 2010, 12:38:52 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 23, 2010, 10:49:56 AM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38
Trine - 21

Mount Union - 38
Delaware Valley - 24

Wesley - 21
Montclair St. - 6


Boy, LD, you have those three games pretty close.  Why so conservative with the heavy favorites?

Well, UWW scored 21 in the 4th last week to make the score look lopsided, but 21-14 at the half and 31-21 going into the 4th wasn't overly impressive in that matchup, and Trine actually impressed me a bit with their big early lead.

I think/hope Delaware Valley can atleast give Mount a tough game.  I'm not as down on DVC as a lot are just because of the Widener game.  To me, it would be the same as if Ithaca had beaten Cortland.  It just wouldn't have really mattered to me all that much.  

Lastly, I don't look at my Montclair/Wesley prediction as being that close.  I think Montclair has a very strong defense that will be stingy, but Wesley will be in control the entire game.

I wouldn't put too much stock in Whitewater's slow start against Franklin as they were starting a back-up QB that had a total of 1 career passing attempt prior to that game.  UWW's starting QB (Blanchard) slightly injured this thumb on his throwing hand and they held him out.  He warmed up and could have played if really needed, but it never got to that point.  The UWW offensive game plan was understandably very conservative to start the game with a young QB.  As the game wore on they opened it up more.   Would be shocked if Trine is within 28 points.

On the MTU/Del Val game, I think you might actually be right with the spread, though I don't think the scores will be that high.  Mount's defense is good, but very young and they just got younger as they lost a starting DE last week that was 2nd on the team in sacks (7), 2nd in tackles for loss (17) and 3rd on the team in overall tackles (62).    Offensively they're young too and banged up.  They've been shuffling the O-line all season and their #2 receiver was injured last week too.  Not a good game health-wise for the Raiders against SLU >:(  I also think everyone is looking too much at the "Mount Union name" and not their actual season.  They're stilling winning, but this isn't anywhere near the Mount teams you guys are used to seeing.  The Mount last team this young, inconsistent and honestly limited talent-wise was 2004 or even clear back to 1994.  

If there was ever a chance to beat Mount, it's now.  That or wait until LK retires.

On Wesley/Montclair, I could see your score happening.  And I could see MSU pissing down their leg and getting drilled.  



Again HScoach you mention how vulnerable Mount Union is this year.  I feel like this is going to be a set up for if an Eastern team fails to take them out again this year you will all say how we couldn't even beat one of your weaker teams.  Not saying that is what people will say, it just feels like that is where the conversations will go next time the East clamors for respect or says we as a region are getting screwed...because let's be honest you know that conversation will take place again next year if things remain status quo this year.  So let me ask, why then if Mount Union is so vulnerable were none of the 9 Northern teams and 1 Western team able to beat them this year?  I'll throw out the bottom 3 of your conference and just assume they are terrible...but for the other 7 teams you guys faced on your schedule that proved they could win some games...if Mount Union is so down, why were none of them able to defeat Mount Union?  

I'll chime in on this one--I agree that we (UMU) are not as strong as we have been in the past.  As a long time fan (going on 20 years now) this is one of the youngest and least experienced teams we have ever had--but remember that we are comparing this year's team to our previous teams.  It's not that this team is bad, by any means--it's just that we are not anywhere near as confident (cocky) this year as we have been in the past.  Usually we are re-loading with Jr's and Sr's with multiple years of playing experience--including post season.  This year we have a sophomore quarterback and several true freshmen playing first and second team.  It's not that we think the team is weak necessarily, just not as strong as they have been in the past.

On the other hand--with our success this year, I look forward to the next two years.  Barring anything big like LK's retirement we should be really kicking some @$$ in the next two years.

Here's to a safe and sane playoff weekend--good luck to all teams and players--

And, oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving--and safe travels to you and yours!


This post is more disheartening to other programs in D3 than anything else.  For Mount to be 'struggling' the way they are with FR & SO's littered through their 2 deep, the Purple are primed for another long run of domination.  

Personally, I think LK and MUC are good for D3 football.  Others have said that interest has waned due to UWW & MUC's dominance.....how cool will it be to be the team to knock them down!!

We should relish the opportunity every year MUC is imported to the East!!  Someone needs to punch them back.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 23, 2010, 06:59:10 PM
It's the old school MA kid mentality U89...I hear a few people say 2 weeks ago when Mark Sanchez looked like he blew out a knee 'That could be the best thing that happened to the Pats'.  I say, f*** em, I want them at their best.

As Good Will Hunting would say:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean f*ckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...

Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."

Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.

Will: I used to go with the wrench.

Sean: Why?

Will: Cause f*ck him, that' why.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: union89 on November 23, 2010, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 06:59:10 PM
It's the old school MA kid mentality U89...I hear a few people say 2 weeks ago when Mark Sanchez looked like he blew out a knee 'That could be the best thing that happened to the Pats'.  I say, f*** em, I want them at their best.

As Good Will Hunting would say:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean f*ckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...

Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."

Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.

Will: I used to go with the wrench.

Sean: Why?

Will: Cause f*ck him, that' why.


+1K.....Miller Lite in the monitor.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 23, 2010, 07:58:32 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 23, 2010, 01:51:08 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 23, 2010, 01:40:33 PM
Forget whether this is a weaker Mount Union team or not, the Larries have shown us how to take down the machine.  The first two opponents need to wear them down so by the time the regional finals arrive UMU is down to their third-stringers and it'll be a game!

Also, for consideration as ammunition against the "East is weak" meme is the 2-0 record against the South this tournament.  Make it 3-0, Montclair on our way to an all-East Stagg!

I would love for Montclair to run the table to the semis...that would be a quick way to demolish the theory that the East is the weakest region, and prove that the South region has been getting a pass all along.


IMO we proved we weren't the weakest region when DV beat Salisbury, and Montclair beat H-S on the road. But I agree that unless Montclair beats Wesley or DV/Cortland/Alfred does the unthinkable,  the rest of the nation will rank us 4th out of 4.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 23, 2010, 07:58:54 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 06:59:10 PM
It's the old school MA kid mentality U89...I hear a few people say 2 weeks ago when Mark Sanchez looked like he blew out a knee 'That could be the best thing that happened to the Pats'.  I say, f*** em, I want them at their best.

As Good Will Hunting would say:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean f*ckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...

Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."

Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.

Will: I used to go with the wrench.

Sean: Why?

Will: Cause f*ck him, that' why.

Wow, I completely misunderstood that part every time I watched it.  I always assumed he meant he opted for the wrench so it would knock him out quicker.

To coach and prof:  thanks for the response.  I pretty much knew that is what you guys meant by saying a down Mount Union.  I just want you guys to keep that nugget in the back of your mind that if in the next two weeks an East team doesn't take you down it's not like any other region did any better throughout the year.  Or am I just comparing apples to oranges?  I won't discount that possibility.  
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on November 23, 2010, 08:17:13 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 06:59:10 PM
It's the old school MA kid mentality U89...I hear a few people say 2 weeks ago when Mark Sanchez looked like he blew out a knee 'That could be the best thing that happened to the Pats'.  I say, f*** em, I want them at their best.

As Good Will Hunting would say:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean f*ckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...

Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."

Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.

Will: I used to go with the wrench.

Sean: Why?

Will: Cause f*ck him, that' why.

+K, great scene
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: theaprof on November 23, 2010, 08:38:28 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 23, 2010, 07:58:54 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 06:59:10 PM
It's the old school MA kid mentality U89...I hear a few people say 2 weeks ago when Mark Sanchez looked like he blew out a knee 'That could be the best thing that happened to the Pats'.  I say, f*** em, I want them at their best.

As Good Will Hunting would say:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean f*ckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...

Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."

Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.

Will: I used to go with the wrench.

Sean: Why?

Will: Cause f*ck him, that' why.

Wow, I completely misunderstood that part every time I watched it.  I always assumed he meant he opted for the wrench so it would knock him out quicker.

To coach and prof:  thanks for the response.  I pretty much knew that is what you guys meant by saying a down Mount Union.  I just want you guys to keep that nugget in the back of your mind that if in the next two weeks an East team doesn't take you down it's not like any other region did any better throughout the year.  Or am I just comparing apples to oranges?  I won't discount that possibility.  

Personally, I don't give us better than a 50/50 chance of playing in the Stagg Bowl this year--but I'll be there if we do.  I do look forward to 2011 and 2012 though, when I think we will return to our former dominance--but who knows--that's why we play the game on Saturday.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see us lose in any of the next three weeks.  I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 24, 2010, 02:36:23 PM
Oh, woe is us
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 25, 2010, 08:20:03 AM
Saw this on Fox's sports section. The Boise State and Ohio State presidents shared a few words over the BCS .  In a lower section of the article the scheduling philosophy was listed.


Kustra said most teams from the power conferences follow a simple blueprint when scheduling these days.

''The formula these days for BCS teams is get seven or eight home games, play one non-conference game against a team from another BCS league, schedule three or four patsies and try not to leave the state if you can help it,'' he said.

He also said that the SEC's Florida Gators have not left the state to play a non-conference, regular-season opponent since 1991.
         -AP

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Boise-State-president-responds-to-Ohio-State-president-Gordan-Gee-slam-112410
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Senor RedTackle on November 27, 2010, 09:29:18 AM
Don't forget to join Frank Rossi and I at 12p for Alfred/Cortland video cast.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/division-iii-football-playoffs
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 27, 2010, 12:24:42 PM
7-3 Alfred.  Video quality is really choppy.  Would be great otherwise.  Don't know how much I can take.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: maxpower on November 27, 2010, 03:02:42 PM
So, any more questions about whether the East Region is a little below?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 27, 2010, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 27, 2010, 03:02:42 PM
So, any more questions about whether the East Region is a little below?

Well we kind of all suspected Montclair probably wasn't up to the task, and even DelVal showed they probably weren't amazing with a loss to Widener,  and I expected Alfred to beat Cortland, but it still looks like we are pinning our hopes on a team (Aflred) that lost to two teams with losing records.......

But...........you just never know.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 27, 2010, 03:53:52 PM
Del Val DID bring a good defense, just weren't deep enough to keep it going. The score doesn't indicate how tight the game was for a long time.

Montclair confirmed that they got the spot Pacific Lutheran should have gotten
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on November 27, 2010, 03:56:14 PM
I doubt PLU would have fared any better against Wesley than MSU did.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 27, 2010, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: Jonny Labcoat on November 27, 2010, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: maxpower on November 27, 2010, 03:02:42 PM
So, any more questions about whether the East Region is a little below?

Well we kind of all suspected Montclair probably wasn't up to the task, and even DelVal showed they probably weren't amazing with a loss to Widener,  and I expected Alfred to beat Cortland, but it still looks like we are pinning our hopes on a team (Aflred) that lost to two teams with losing records.......

But...........you just never know.

RPI finished 6-3 in the regular season, 6-4 overall. UR won its final four games to finish 4-5. But Pep sees your point. So, Jonny, don't pin your hopes on this unranked Aflred team. But hey, for now, the Saxons are the only East team still standing, and have already exceeded our (the band) season expectations. Stay tuned.

On Saxon Warriors!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on November 27, 2010, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: TGP on November 27, 2010, 03:56:14 PM
I doubt PLU would have fared any better against Wesley than MSU did.


Although I doubt PLU would have gotten seeded in the East
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 27, 2010, 10:23:19 PM
pep, always like reading your posts.  good luck next week at mount.  if you go make sure you stop at the wing warehouse.  great place for grub.  if you get there friday night, check to see if the mount folk will be there, they are great people and will give you fair insight into the game.  enjoy the trip.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 27, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 27, 2010, 10:23:19 PM
pep, always like reading your posts.  good luck next week at mount.  if you go make sure you stop at the wing warehouse.  great place for grub.  if you get there friday night, check to see if the mount folk will be there, they are great people and will give you fair insight into the game.  enjoy the trip.

While Pep long ago exhausted the band's travel budget (wait, does this band have a travel budget? No!), the band will nevertheless make the trip. A few years ago, Pep paid Larry Kehres and staff a pre-season visit to check out Mount Union's facilities. Coach Kehres is well aware of the AU Pep Band's prowess and is no doubt already at work devising a plan to overcome "The Saxon Spirit."

While Pep is yet unsure of a travel itinerary and dining plans, a visit to the aforementioned Wing Warehouse seems likely assuming of course that said establishment is planning to remunerate d3football.com for all of the Post Pattern plugs.  ;)

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 28, 2010, 12:21:53 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 27, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 27, 2010, 10:23:19 PM
pep, always like reading your posts.  good luck next week at mount.  if you go make sure you stop at the wing warehouse.  great place for grub.  if you get there friday night, check to see if the mount folk will be there, they are great people and will give you fair insight into the game.  enjoy the trip.

While Pep long ago exhausted the band's travel budget (wait, does this band have a travel budget? No!), the band will nevertheless make the trip. A few years ago, Pep paid Larry Kehres and staff a pre-season visit to check out Mount Union's facilities. Coach Kehres is well aware of the AU Pep Band's prowess and is no doubt already at work devising a plan to overcome "The Saxon Spirit."

While Pep is yet unsure of a travel itinerary and dining plans, a visit to the aforementioned Wing Warehouse seems likely assuming of course that said establishment is planning to remunerate d3football.com for all of the Post Pattern plugs.  ;)

On Saxon Warriors!


Pep:  I admire your spirit.  Not sure about the sanity behind it though ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 28, 2010, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: HScoach on November 28, 2010, 12:21:53 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 27, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 27, 2010, 10:23:19 PM
pep, always like reading your posts.  good luck next week at mount.  if you go make sure you stop at the wing warehouse.  great place for grub.  if you get there friday night, check to see if the mount folk will be there, they are great people and will give you fair insight into the game.  enjoy the trip.

While Pep long ago exhausted the band's travel budget (wait, does this band have a travel budget? No!), the band will nevertheless make the trip. A few years ago, Pep paid Larry Kehres and staff a pre-season visit to check out Mount Union's facilities. Coach Kehres is well aware of the AU Pep Band's prowess and is no doubt already at work devising a plan to overcome "The Saxon Spirit."

While Pep is yet unsure of a travel itinerary and dining plans, a visit to the aforementioned Wing Warehouse seems likely assuming of course that said establishment is planning to remunerate d3football.com for all of the Post Pattern plugs.  ;)

On Saxon Warriors!


Pep:  I admire your spirit.  Not sure about the sanity behind it though ;)

Pep doesn't suffer from insanity, he enjoys every minute of it!  ???

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 29, 2010, 11:05:33 AM
To revisit my predictions, I had a 5-3 week.  Not great by any means, but it's better than 3-5 I guess.

Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 23, 2010, 09:56:47 AM
NostraLD's 2nd Round Predictions:

UWW - 38  45
Trine - 21  31
Several people questioned this prediction, but it wasn't half bad!!!

Mount Union - 38  31
Delaware Valley - 24  3
It's crazy because I feel like the teams that can actually slow down Mount Union can only do it for 2 quarters at most, then they just wear you down.  After this win, i'm hard-pressed to believe Mount can lose

Wesley - 21  44
Montclair St. - 6  7
I have Wesley winning it all, so while I thought Montclair's D would fare better, i'm not at all surprised by this.

St. Thomas - 42  24
Linfield - 35  17
7 point win in 2OTs?  Game of the week?

North Central - 28  28
Ohio Northern - 24  9
North Central appears to be as good as advertised.

Thomas More - 21  7
Mary Hardin-Baylor - 17  69
I was WAYYYY off on this one.  Anyone else swing and miss that bad?

Wheaton - 31  10
Bethel - 21  15
Having no idea about either of these teams, i'll eat it.

Cortland St. - 42  20
Alfred - 38  34
I believe Alfred may be the most bi-polar team of all-time.  Is it weird that they can beat almost anyone, and also lose to almost anyone?

Thanksgiving Day

Lowell - 35  38
Haverhill - 6  21
A nice victory to end a rebuilding year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on November 29, 2010, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 29, 2010, 11:05:33 AM

I believe Alfred may be the most bi-polar team of all-time.  Is it weird that they can beat almost anyone, and also lose to almost anyone?

That's true except for the beat almost anyone part.  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 29, 2010, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 29, 2010, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 29, 2010, 11:05:33 AM

I believe Alfred may be the most bi-polar team of all-time.  Is it weird that they can beat almost anyone, and also lose to almost anyone?

That's true except for the beat almost anyone part.  ;)

No, that's exactly true.  ALMOST anyone.  I only speak in scientific terms.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 30, 2010, 08:36:16 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on November 29, 2010, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: No Longer Negative LD11 on November 29, 2010, 11:05:33 AM

I believe Alfred may be the most bi-polar team of all-time.  Is it weird that they can beat almost anyone, and also lose to almost anyone?

That's true except for the beat almost anyone part.  ;)

No no, beat almost anyone is a very accurate statement :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 04, 2010, 04:01:02 PM

For those that thought Delaware Valley was the best team in the East Region, you're wrong.  It's Alfred.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 04, 2010, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2010, 04:01:02 PM

For those that thought Delaware Valley was the best team in the East Region, you're wrong.  It's Alfred.


Alfred, better than Batman and Robin at last.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: seventiesraider on December 04, 2010, 10:49:19 PM
I guess it's time to say goodbye to another East Region Playoff
Turn out the lights, the party's over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on December 05, 2010, 05:05:50 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 04, 2010, 10:49:19 PM
I guess it's time to say goodbye to another East Region Playoff
Turn out the lights, the party's over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY)


Haha! The party's not over until Pep has nothing more to say....

Dandy Don Meredith was arguably the best color commentator MNF ever had. Alfred University awarded Dandy Don an honorary doctorate (Pep believes it was in the early 1970s) making him "Dr. Dandy Don"!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Doid23 on December 06, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 05, 2010, 05:05:50 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 04, 2010, 10:49:19 PM
I guess it's time to say goodbye to another East Region Playoff
Turn out the lights, the party's over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY)


Haha! The party's not over until Pep has nothing more to say....

Dandy Don Meredith was arguably the best color commentator MNF ever had. Alfred University awarded Dandy Don an honorary doctorate (Pep believes it was in the early 1970s) making him "Dr. Dandy Don"!



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/06/don-meredith-passes-at-72/related/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/06/don-meredith-passes-at-72/related/)

Sadly, Dandy Don is no longer with us. A huge part of the old guys sports experience, with Howard and Frank. RIP
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 06, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
That's kinda freaky...  I actually thought about this post when I heard the news...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on December 06, 2010, 08:35:35 PM
Anybody catch the D3 Senior Classic played down in Salem this past weekend?  The same crew...CDFL is sponsoring the D-1AA Senior Classic down in southern NY this weekend.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on December 06, 2010, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: Doid23 on December 06, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 05, 2010, 05:05:50 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 04, 2010, 10:49:19 PM
I guess it's time to say goodbye to another East Region Playoff
Turn out the lights, the party's over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY)


Haha! The party's not over until Pep has nothing more to say....

Dandy Don Meredith was arguably the best color commentator MNF ever had. Alfred University awarded Dandy Don an honorary doctorate (Pep believes it was in the early 1970s) making him "Dr. Dandy Don"!



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/06/don-meredith-passes-at-72/related/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/06/don-meredith-passes-at-72/related/)

Sadly, Dandy Don is no longer with us. A huge part of the old guys sports experience, with Howard and Frank. RIP

Tell me it ain't so. Pep liked his style.

"Dr." Dandy Don Meredith....who, together with Cosell made for magical Monday Nights.

Frank Gifford was a stabilizing force or who knows what might have happened?

May he RIP.





Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2010, 10:17:15 PM
Quote from: Doid23 on December 06, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 05, 2010, 05:05:50 PM
Quote from: seventiesraider on December 04, 2010, 10:49:19 PM
I guess it's time to say goodbye to another East Region Playoff
Turn out the lights, the party's over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3xsDv6yCnY)


Haha! The party's not over until Pep has nothing more to say....

Dandy Don Meredith was arguably the best color commentator MNF ever had. Alfred University awarded Dandy Don an honorary doctorate (Pep believes it was in the early 1970s) making him "Dr. Dandy Don"!



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/06/don-meredith-passes-at-72/related/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/06/don-meredith-passes-at-72/related/)

Sadly, Dandy Don is no longer with us. A huge part of the old guys sports experience, with Howard and Frank. RIP
Dallas Cowboy football excitement hit the town in 1966.  Yeah, the Cowboys had gone to the "Playoff Bowl" (http://www.mmbolding.com/BSR/Playoff_Bowl_1966_Baltimore_Colts_vs_Dallas_Cowboys.htm) in Jan 1966, as a 7-7 team, only to be stomped by the Baltimore Colts 35-3.  But, the Cowboys were starting to put it together.

1966 was different.  Bullet Bob Hayes (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PlayerId=276&tab=Stats) completely changed the face of Pro Football, an Olympic Gold 100 Meter sprinter who could catch a pass.  Meredith finally had the tools around him in 1966, a wide open offense and the "flex defense" that later became the "Doomsday Defense".

Head Scout Gil Brandt was finding great talent in previously undiscovered places like Elizabeth City State NC (Jethro Pugh) and Johnson C Smith NC (Pettis Norman).

The Cowboys lost to the Packers 34-27 in the NFL Championship Game in the Cotton Bowl on New Year's Day, 1967,  a heartbreaking loss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_NFL_Championship_Game).  With the loss in the Ice Bowl on December 31, 1967 and then the ugly loss to the Browns (http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/results.nsf/Teams/1968-dal) in 1968 in the first round of the playoffs, the "can't win the big one" moniker was plastered on Meredith, Landry and the Cowboys.  Meredith retired, possibly after one too many concussions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on December 06, 2010, 11:14:11 PM
Heard Bob Lily discuss why Meredith retired today. He came out of the hospital for that game against Cleveland and played with a punctured lung, pneumonia and a 103° temperature. Lily said that the entire team played poorly but Meredith was singled out with some particularly hash criticism. He said it broke Meredith's heart and he lost the fire for the game and took advise from his brother, retired and became a stock broker for a year before the Monday Night Football gig.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 08, 2010, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: phil on December 06, 2010, 11:14:11 PM
Heard Bob Lily discuss why Meredith retired today. He came out of the hospital for that game against Cleveland and played with a punctured lung, pneumonia and a 103° temperature. Lily said that the entire team played poorly but Meredith was singled out with some particularly hash criticism. He said it broke Meredith's heart and he lost the fire for the game and took advise from his brother, retired and became a stock broker for a year before the Monday Night Football gig.

One of the books I read on vacation was The Ones Who Hit the Hardest: The Steelers, the Cowboys, the '70s, and the Fight for America's Soul by Chad Millman and Shawn Coyne.

A great book for those that remember the era.  Lot of inside material.  Tom Landry doesn't come off very well as person, beginning with Meredith.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HSCTiger74 on December 08, 2010, 04:46:13 PM
Quote from: JT on December 08, 2010, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: phil on December 06, 2010, 11:14:11 PM
Heard Bob Lily discuss why Meredith retired today. He came out of the hospital for that game against Cleveland and played with a punctured lung, pneumonia and a 103° temperature. Lily said that the entire team played poorly but Meredith was singled out with some particularly hash criticism. He said it broke Meredith's heart and he lost the fire for the game and took advise from his brother, retired and became a stock broker for a year before the Monday Night Football gig.

One of the books I read on vacation was The Ones Who Hit the Hardest: The Steelers, the Cowboys, the '70s, and the Fight for America's Soul by Chad Millman and Shawn Coyne.

A great book for those that remember the era.  Lot of inside material.  Tom Landry doesn't come off very well as person, beginning with Meredith.

What ... you thought the Coach Strother character in North Dallas Forty was totally fictional?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 08, 2010, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 08, 2010, 04:46:13 PM
Quote from: JT on December 08, 2010, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: phil on December 06, 2010, 11:14:11 PM
Heard Bob Lily discuss why Meredith retired today. He came out of the hospital for that game against Cleveland and played with a punctured lung, pneumonia and a 103° temperature. Lily said that the entire team played poorly but Meredith was singled out with some particularly hash criticism. He said it broke Meredith's heart and he lost the fire for the game and took advise from his brother, retired and became a stock broker for a year before the Monday Night Football gig.

One of the books I read on vacation was The Ones Who Hit the Hardest: The Steelers, the Cowboys, the '70s, and the Fight for America's Soul by Chad Millman and Shawn Coyne.

A great book for those that remember the era.  Lot of inside material.  Tom Landry doesn't come off very well as person, beginning with Meredith.

What ... you thought the Coach Strother character in North Dallas Forty was totally fictional?

As a kid I thought he was very mechanical.  I didn't realize how cold he actually was. 

Noll comes off as very tactical, uninspiring pre-game speech giver, but very decent guy off the field. Rooney's come off as great owners.  Landry was just a jerk. Players were just parts to he and Schramm.

Coyne is a Pittsburgh native FWIW. Millman is originally from Chicago.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 11, 2010, 02:18:07 PM
Mount Union 34 Bethel 7 in the 4th quarter

Once again there appears to be no tangible difference between the East teams and other regions when it comes to their chances of beating Mount Union.  The way it looks to me is Whitewater and MUC are #1 and #1a, and everyone else in the Top 20 is about a 20 to 30 point underdog to them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2010, 02:20:32 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 11, 2010, 02:18:07 PM
Mount Union 34 Bethel 7 in the 4th quarter

Once again there appears to be no tangible difference between the East teams and other regions when it comes to their chances of beating Mount Union.  The way it looks to me is Whitewater and MUC are #1 and #1a, and everyone else in the Top 20 is about a 20 to 30 point underdog to them.

Not quite everybody - NCC led UWW entering the 4th quarter, and only lost by 10. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: phil on December 11, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
Another Purple v. Purple final. Can't say I'm interested enough to tune in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 11, 2010, 03:31:19 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 11, 2010, 02:18:07 PM
Mount Union 34 Bethel 7 in the 4th quarter

Once again there appears to be no tangible difference between the East teams and other regions when it comes to their chances of beating Mount Union.  The way it looks to me is Whitewater and MUC are #1 and #1a, and everyone else in the Top 20 is about a 20 to 30 point underdog to them.

Trine had them tied in the 4th quarter, turned one over on the UWW goal line late in the game, and lost by 14.   ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: 108Vincent on December 11, 2010, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: phil on December 11, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
Another Purple v. Purple final. Can't say I'm interested enough to tune in.

Your loss.  Should be an excellent college football game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 11, 2010, 05:05:53 PM
Bethel wasn't any better than Alfred or Del Valley.  Their rush defense was a little better than the East teams, but their offense was horrendous. 

Based solely on seeing the teams against Mount, I'd rank the Mount opponents as follows:
1.  Ohio Northern
2.  Del Valley / Alfred
3.  Alfred / Del Valley
4.  Baldwin Wallace
5.  Bethel
6.  UW-Oshkosh
7.  Otterbein
8.  Capital
9.  Heidelberg
10.  Marietta
11.  John Carroll
12.  St Lawrence
13.  Muskingum
14.  Wilmington
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 11, 2010, 05:07:40 PM
Not bad for Del Val, considering they were missing the conference player of the year.  Needless to say, they aren't at Mount Union's level but every year I wonder more and more if anyone besides UW-Whitewater will be any time soon.

I really thought this was Wesley's year to break through.   Having the full complement of players would've helped but Whitewater could say the same about their QB.  It's just a guess, but I don't think Wesley would've beaten Whitewater at full strength.

Maybe Trine or North Central breaks through.  Trine needs to have another playoff run to distinguish themselves from other programs who have had really nice individual seasons.  But They both impressed me with their playoff performance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: JT on December 11, 2010, 05:31:25 PM
Quote from: 108Vincent on December 11, 2010, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: phil on December 11, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
Another Purple v. Purple final. Can't say I'm interested enough to tune in.

Your loss.  Should be an excellent college football game.

A team in purple wasn't crowned yet?  Thank God, I didn't miss it.  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on December 12, 2010, 08:24:34 AM
I am heartened to read other posts that indicate others are experiencing the same sort of fatigue I am from the D3 playoff results year after year.

I particularly enjoyed the #1 #1a remark.

It seems that the playoff system is the province of UMU - personally I liked it better as MUU.

What they have accomplished year after year is astounding and hard to find in any other sport at any other level.

That aside, it is dispiriting to see such dominance and I find myself each season hoping that a new Frosty Westerling will emerge so I can at least, for day, become a 'Lutes fan.

Congratulations to both UW-W and UMU, or whatever sequence is the preferred order, on fantastic seasons.

Doesn't the simple fact that Pierre Garcon is a wide receiver for the Colts say something about the talent level in that small town in Ohio?

Is is just me or is there anyone else out there who wonders how teams of this consistent great caliber would do against DII or DI competition?

I suspect they would thrash most competition at the DII level.

Now that would truly be entertaining and worth watching if it would be broadcast.

ATB

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 12, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
As I have recently posted on another board, after further review, I truly believe that the East teams were as strong (probably stronger) than Mount's opponent in the semi-final.  I base this not only in regard to scores, but more so watching all the teams perform against Mount.  Del Valley and Alfred were much more balanced, and certainly competed on the defensive side at the same level as Bethel's vaunted defense. 

I truly thought that this year was the year that Mount would/could be knocked out at an earlier time in the play-offs, but in all honesty their defense has improved to an amazing level.  They are playing at such a high level, and the speed on that defense is a sight to see.

Having stated above, I bow to all that is Frank Rossi (and NO....I will NOT join his Rossite cult)!   ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 12, 2010, 03:13:13 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 12, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
As I have recently posted on another board, after further review, I truly believe that the East teams were as strong (probably stronger) than Mount's opponent in the semi-final.  I base this not only in regard to scores, but more so watching all the teams perform against Mount.  Del Valley and Alfred were much more balanced, and certainly competed on the defensive side at the same level as Bethel's vaunted defense. 

I truly thought that this year was the year that Mount would/could be knocked out at an earlier time in the play-offs, but in all honesty their defense has improved to an amazing level.  They are playing at such a high level, and the speed on that defense is a sight to see.

Having stated above, I bow to all that is Frank Rossi (and NO....I will NOT join his Rossite cult)!   ;)

I refuse to join it, too.  It's gotta be full of geeks, bores and pompous a**es if it's associated with him.

Oh, wait...  :-)

[In all seriousness, I don't post much during the playoffs for a variety of reasons, but I appreciated this post -- not because of the last sentence, but because it brings some full-circle closure to a lot of the arguments I've been making ad nauseum all second half of the season.  Regardless, we have Purple Bowl VI, as coined to me by TGP yesterday via email -- so, we can discuss the East's relative strength a lot more after a great Stagg Bowl.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 12, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
 :)  Nicely done Frank......see you Saturday. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 12, 2010, 09:44:29 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 12, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
As I have recently posted on another board, after further review, I truly believe that the East teams were as strong (probably stronger) than Mount's opponent in the semi-final.  I base this not only in regard to scores, but more so watching all the teams perform against Mount.  Del Valley and Alfred were much more balanced, and certainly competed on the defensive side at the same level as Bethel's vaunted defense. 

Definitely agree.  The Alfred defense is an impressive unit, and could compete with most teams nationally not named MUC and UWW.  I regret not getting the opportunity to see DV play this season.

Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 12, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
I truly thought that this year was the year that Mount would/could be knocked out at an earlier time in the play-offs, but in all honesty their defense has improved to an amazing level.  They are playing at such a high level, and the speed on that defense is a sight to see.

Yes, I agree with this too.  From what I saw on the video feed the MUC defense at this stage of the season is every bit as good as the 2008 championship team.  In early November I felt UWW was the team to beat, but now I would be surprised if MUC did not re-capture the crown.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: labart96 on December 13, 2010, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 12, 2010, 03:13:13 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 12, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
As I have recently posted on another board, after further review, I truly believe that the East teams were as strong (probably stronger) than Mount's opponent in the semi-final.  I base this not only in regard to scores, but more so watching all the teams perform against Mount.  Del Valley and Alfred were much more balanced, and certainly competed on the defensive side at the same level as Bethel's vaunted defense. 

I truly thought that this year was the year that Mount would/could be knocked out at an earlier time in the play-offs, but in all honesty their defense has improved to an amazing level.  They are playing at such a high level, and the speed on that defense is a sight to see.

Having stated above, I bow to all that is Frank Rossi (and NO....I will NOT join his Rossite cult)!   ;)

I refuse to join it, too.  It's gotta be full of geeks, bores and pompous a**es if it's associated with him.

Oh, wait...  :-)

[In all seriousness, I don't post much during the playoffs for a variety of reasons, but I appreciated this post -- not because of the last sentence, but because it brings some full-circle closure to a lot of the arguments I've been making ad nauseum all second half of the season.  Regardless, we have Purple Bowl VI, as coined to me by TGP yesterday via email -- so, we can discuss the East's relative strength a lot more after a great Stagg Bowl.]

At last!!! I've finally contributed something meaningful to the 2010 season ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Lyco80 on December 18, 2010, 09:13:29 PM
What a game for both teams but hard to believe how many turnovers there were.  I am glad that Wis WW won - although now they seem to be on their way to dynasty status - West.

It will be quite some time before the East teams can successfully compete against the type of talent on display at the Stagg Bowl today.

Those O-lineman for Wisc WW were the real deal - talk about some hosses!

Merry Christmas to all posters and their families!

Go Eagles - oh and don't they look smart after what has happened to #5 in Washington?

ATB
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 11:57:34 AM
I think this would be a good place to put the scores and updates for the Eastern Region teams in the playoffs...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 12:05:27 PM
The livestats make it seem like the Hobart-Wesley game has started with some ugliness bad punts and fumbles. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 12:06:36 PM
The New England teams already down:

WNEC 0
Salisbury 7

Del Val 7
Norwich 0 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 12:10:56 PM
Fisher has a good opening Drive, settles for a FG 3-0
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D O.C. on November 19, 2011, 12:11:57 PM
Kean up 7 - 0 on first drive.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 12:16:08 PM
Wesley Strikes first 7-0.

WNEC gets a FG, Salisbury still leads 7-3
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 12:21:41 PM
Del Val up 14-0.  They don't seem to be having any trouble early. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2011, 01:29:51 PM
Man, how FIRED UP is WNEC right now? Get ready for some garbage time scores by the 5th string defense
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:03:32 PM
4th:  Fisher 20 JHU 12. Why did Hopkins go for it on 4th down with 9 minutes left in their own territory???
4th:  Kean 34 CNU 10.  I didn't expect that!
3rd: Salisbury leads 49-10.
3rd: 48-10 Del Val over Norwich.  Your ECFC champions everyone! 
3rd: 28-14 Wesley.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:10:39 PM
28-21 wesley, Hobart blocked a punt and returned it for a td.  Unfortunately kicking from 15 yards further back due to celebration penalty. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:11:41 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:10:39 PM
28-21 wesley, Hobart blocked a punt and returned it for a td.  Unfortunately kicking from 15 yards further back due to celebration penalty.

awesome!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:12:30 PM
4th:  Fisher 20 JHU 12. Why did Hopkins go for it on 4th down with 9 minutes left in their own territory???
4th:  Kean 34 CNU 10.  I didn't expect that!
3rd: Salisbury leads 49-10.
3rd: 48-10 Del Val over Norwich.  Your ECFC champions everyone!
3rd: 28-21 Wesley.  As I stated earlier, I doubted that Hobart had NO chance as Wesleydad inferred. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:10:39 PM
28-21 wesley, Hobart blocked a punt and returned it for a td.  Unfortunately kicking from 15 yards further back due to celebration penalty.

Great job by Hobart's defense today!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:14:40 PM
4th:  Fisher 23 JHU 12. Field goal by Fisher may close it out here.  Good Representin' the east!
4th:  Kean 34 CNU 10.  I didn't expect that!
4th: Salisbury leads 49-10.
4th: 48-10 Del Val over Norwich.  Your ECFC champions everyone!
3rd: 28-21 Wesley.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:12:30 PM
4th:  Fisher 20 JHU 12. Why did Hopkins go for it on 4th down with 9 minutes left in their own territory???
4th:  Kean 34 CNU 10.  I didn't expect that!
3rd: Salisbury leads 49-10.
3rd: 48-10 Del Val over Norwich.  Your ECFC champions everyone!
3rd: 28-21 Wesley.  As I stated earlier, I doubted that Hobart had NO chance as Wesleydad inferred.

Hobart faked a punt inside their 10 against SJF in 2007 1st rd game....???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:17:23 PM
A pick by Fisher, great defensive play by them today, very impressive.  Should be interesting vs. Del Val next week. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:18:32 PM
Western New England scores to make it 49-17. maybe they've overcome their excitement. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:19:25 PM
Good maybe we can get a game now that WNE has settled down...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:19:41 PM
Ah geez its far from over PG....you trying to jinx us....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:19:41 PM
Ah geez its far from over PG....you trying to jinx us....

Sorry, I really shouldn't have said that.  I usually don't!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
Final:  Kean 34  CNU 10.  Not much happened in the second half. 

A good Out of Region win for an Eastern team. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:19:41 PM
Ah geez its far from over PG....you trying to jinx us....

Sorry, I really shouldn't have said that.  I usually don't!

oooh baby...we gonna get it done though.... ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
Final:  Kean 34  CNU 10.  Not much happened in the second half.

Great performance by Kean today...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:25:56 PM
Salisbury didn't like being scored on, 56-17 lead now.

Fisher turns Hopkins over on downs, up 23-12 it looks like they'll hold on (now I think it's safe!)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:26:44 PM
Wesley scores, 35-21 with less than a minute left in the 3rd quarter. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:27:36 PM
Delaware Valley wanted to get into the 50's too... 55-10 lead over Norwich. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 19, 2011, 02:27:59 PM
Wesley playing AWFULLY here. Flashbacks from the Kean game. Penalties and turnovers. YUCK!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:31:13 PM
Salisbury really didn't like being scored on.... now 62-17!  Salisbury has 506 yards rushing, wow!

Fisher intercepts for a 5th time to finally end the game for good... 23-12 Fisher will win. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 02:33:47 PM
DVC....here we come!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:34:27 PM
Hobart scores after a FUMBLE (tHE  live stats were wrong), and it's now 35-28 Wesley with a full quarter to go!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:34:37 PM
Hobart recovers a fumbled punt.  Personal foul knocking our #2 punter and #4 receiver (who's playing because #1 and #3 are out) puts the ball inside the ten.  Two plays to Dougherty and Webb and it's 35-28. 

Heart, heart, heart. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2011, 02:36:05 PM
God the ECFC is a joke. That they have a Pool A bid is an insult.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:34:37 PM
Hobart recovers a fumbled punt.  Personal foul knocking our #2 punter and #4 receiver (who's playing because #1 and #3 are out) puts the ball inside the ten.  Two plays to Dougherty and Webb and it's 35-28. 

Heart, heart, heart.

The live stats said Roughing the kicker but after actually looking at the play by play I realized that didn't make sense.  WTF.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:36:45 PM
Shock the world Hobart!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:37:48 PM
Salisbury and Del Val both have 62.  Del val leads 62-10 and Salisbury leads 62-24.  Yeah, I don't want to hear any complaining from anyone in those conferences.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:39:56 PM
Wesley is killing themselves with penalties & miscues...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2011, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:37:48 PM
Salisbury and Del Val both have 62.  Del val leads 62-10 and Salisbury leads 62-24.  Yeah, I don't want to hear any complaining from anyone in those conferences.

WNEC is outscoring Salisbury in the 4th quarter. Bout time they settled down
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:41:25 PM
To Summarize:

4th:  Wesley 35  Hobart 28
4th: Salisbury 62 WNEC 24

FINAL:  Del Val 62 Norwich 10
FINAL:  Fisher 23  Johns Hopkins 12
FINAL:  Kean 34  Christopher Newport 10. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:39:56 PM
Wesley is killing themselves with penalties & miscues...

Obviously this will be an impetus to excuses why the game was so close.  Wesley has a tendency to play that way...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:43:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:39:56 PM
Wesley is killing themselves with penalties & miscues...

Obviously this will be an impetus to excuses why the game was so close.  Wesley has a tendency to play that way...

Bart has 175 yards of offense and Wesley has over 400...

This is going to be a great finish, too bad no video...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:44:38 PM
When you have you're #1 QB, #1 and #3 WR out of there, why did Webb and Dougherty only have 16 combined carries before the last Bart td? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:45:31 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:43:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:39:56 PM
Wesley is killing themselves with penalties & miscues...

Obviously this will be an impetus to excuses why the game was so close.  Wesley has a tendency to play that way...

Bart has 175 yards of offense and Wesley has over 400...

This is going to be a great finish, too bad no video...

This is true, but Penalties and Turnovers are part of the game, and shouldn't be used as "excuses".  This is how I thought Hobart could possibly pull off an upset. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:45:31 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:43:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:39:56 PM
Wesley is killing themselves with penalties & miscues...

Obviously this will be an impetus to excuses why the game was so close.  Wesley has a tendency to play that way...

Bart has 175 yards of offense and Wesley has over 400...

This is going to be a great finish, too bad no video...

This is true, but Penalties and Turnovers are part of the game, and shouldn't be used as "excuses".  This is how I thought Hobart could possibly pull off an upset.

Without Strang I thought they had no chance...

He was awesome earlier in the year vs Fisher...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:51:06 PM
Why didn't Hobart kick a field goal?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:52:06 PM
Salisbury racks up 568 yards rushing in their 62-24 victory over Generic NEFC team #1. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2011, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 02:10:39 PM
28-21 wesley, Hobart blocked a punt and returned it for a td.  Unfortunately kicking from 15 yards further back due to celebration penalty.
Hobart, a celebration penalty?  A little out of character?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:53:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:51:06 PM
Why didn't Hobart kick a field goal?

They can't stop Wesley's offense, they needed 7 not 3...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:54:35 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:53:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:51:06 PM
Why didn't Hobart kick a field goal?

They can't stop Wesley's offense, they needed 7 not 3...

I would have kicked a field goal.  They were on the 5 not the 1.  If Wesley gets a FG then the game is essentially over.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:55:39 PM
In fact I believe there is at least one other time in this game where Hobart should have attempted a field goal (I think it was this game... they got down inside the 5). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:59:13 PM
Either way, Hopefully Hobart gets the stop and gets another score!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:59:13 PM
Either way, Hopefully Hobart gets the stop and gets another score!

Well they got the stop, thanks to an offensive PI on Wesley, 7 minutes left...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 03:00:51 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 19, 2011, 02:59:58 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 02:59:13 PM
Either way, Hopefully Hobart gets the stop and gets another score!

Well they got the stop, thanks to an offensive PI on Wesley, 7 minutes left...

I guess I should turn on the audio. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Cardinal Pride on November 19, 2011, 03:02:07 PM
Hobart has a first down in Wesley Terr with 7 min left down one score.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2011, 03:05:34 PM
Their original kicker Reyes Guevara left the team earlier in the season.  Bruening kicked two FGs into the O-Line vs. RPI.  Agreed that they needed to try the 22yd FG.  Great game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 03:14:20 PM
Wesley lucky to escape this game.  I think if Linfield wins, they will beat Wesley next week. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Cardinal Pride on November 19, 2011, 03:16:59 PM
Hobart had the ball inside the Wesley 5 two drives in a row and failed to punch it in.  Too bad, great game and Hobart had a great season they gave Wesley all they wanted.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 19, 2011, 03:19:07 PM
Whooooooo! Nice game by Hobart. They really proved themselves. Not what I expected at all as they really capitalized on the numerous Wesley mistakes.

Not a good game by Wesley at all. I feel like we lost. Not a pretty game at all. 150+ yards in penalties and a gazillion turnovers. This was UGLY! Lucky is right! But they move on nonetheless.....need to clean this up or pg04, you will be right. and it will not be very pretty on the scoreboard.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 19, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
Someone will criticize in hindsight, but down 14-0, I support going for the goal from the 1.  From there, the decision on the second and third missed opportunities from the 5 and 2 were much easier given the score. 

I cna't believe how Hobart showed up.  Backup QB's missing half the receiving corps, starting FB playing with a cast on his arm and even Worthington (thigh) and Robinson (cleared from a concussion) were questionable well into the week. 

I'm sure the narrative from tke cynics and skeptics of the East will be look at the stats in this game (ignoring Hobart being short handed, on the road against a 2 TD favorite if we're all healthy).  Hobart's used to it.  Even on these boards in the middle of the decade all I'd read is that whoever they beat (RPI, Union, etc.) had better talent they were lucky to win.  Nothing new.   

Congrats to SJF and please carry the flag forward.  You'll get stiffed by those same skeptics of the East that the CC isn't that great of a conference, but the consensus of those deemed appropriate to vote on the polls collectively had them pegged as the 14th best team in the country and you traveled roughly the same distance as us to take that victory. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 03:25:23 PM
If Hobart had the ability to kick, they may have won this game.  Inside the 6 three times... 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2011, 03:35:53 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2011, 03:25:23 PM
If Hobart had the ability to kick, they may have won this game.  Inside the 6 three times...

Once led to a turnover where they scored a quick TD, though, no?  So that washes it a bit.  However, their second-to-last possession to me was a no-brainier FG situation.  It would send a message to Wesley that they weren't scared and didn't need to go on 4th down every time to win.  Also, I think Wesley's goal line defense was really good -- and it might have benefitted Hobart to kick the ball off and have more room to navigate.

Either way, though, Hobart's defense is the real deal.  I'm proud to say they're a major force in our Region and the Liberty League after today's performance.  Between them, Fisher and DelVal, we saw a new case to be made that the East is stronger than we think.

In other news, Endicott came from behind to beat... Ummmm... Mt. Ida (you know, that perennial powerhouse in D3 football) by the score of 31-22.  I'm excited to hear Charles' reasons why Endicott proved they deserved a spot in the dance, especially at the cost of Fisher.  Let me make some popcorn...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on November 19, 2011, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2011, 03:35:53 PM

Either way, though, Hobart's defense is the real deal.  I'm proud to say they're a major force in our Region and the Liberty League after today's performance.  Between them, Fisher and DelVal, we saw a new case to be made that the East is stronger than we think.

Don't forget Kean smashing CNU 34-10. It was 34-7 at the half. CNU was 8-0 against the USAC and 0-3 against East teams in 2011. Those losses included one to Stevenson, which won only one game in the MAC.

My thoughts on the East today:

http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/east-looking-strong-in-playoffs.html (http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/east-looking-strong-in-playoffs.html)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2011, 04:24:23 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 19, 2011, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 19, 2011, 03:35:53 PM

Either way, though, Hobart's defense is the real deal.  I'm proud to say they're a major force in our Region and the Liberty League after today's performance.  Between them, Fisher and DelVal, we saw a new case to be made that the East is stronger than we think.

Don't forget Kean smashing CNU 34-10. It was 34-7 at the half. CNU was 8-0 against the USAC and 0-3 against East teams in 2011. Those losses included one to Stevenson, which won only one game in the MAC.

My thoughts on the East today:

http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/east-looking-strong-in-playoffs.html (http://d3east-football.blogspot.com/2011/11/east-looking-strong-in-playoffs.html)

True, Dan.  No offense to Kean.  That game was over so early, I forgot to include it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2011, 05:16:12 PM
hobart played a mistake free game today and just missed pulling off a huge upset.  i was also puzzled by the no field goal attempts once only down 7.  i agree with pumpkin that the first one when down 14 - 0, need a td.  hobart did a great job with all the chances they had but did not get it done in the end.  tough loss, but they should be very proud of the effort.  wesley played a horrible game, not sure which is worse, the turnovers or the 150+ yards in penalties.  they escaped to play another day.  they have no shot against whomever they play next week if they repeat this performance.  after all the excitement ends about how close the game was, in the end it was only close because of the mistakes wesley made.  the hobart lineman made a nice play on the int and the blocked punt looked just like the kean game, i hate that spread punt formation that wesley uses, not sure how all the punts dont get blocked.  all the fumbles were mistakes by wesley not from hits by hobart.  i am not sure how it came across on the audio but the officials were the worst group i have ever seen just getting the ball placed properly.  i think they had to replace the ball at least a half a dozen times, got to the point that the game seemed to stop almost every play while they tried to figure out where the ball should be.  again, congrats to hobart for playing an excellent game today, shame you didnt pull it off.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 19, 2011, 05:22:51 PM
I've never seen Welsey play, but it sounds like they don't have the ability to play enough mistake free games that would allow them to win a national championship.  Maybe they should recruit some players that don't make so many mistakes?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2011, 06:33:02 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 19, 2011, 05:22:51 PM
I've never seen Welsey play, but it sounds like they don't have the ability to play enough mistake free games that would allow them to win a national championship.  Maybe they should recruit some players that don't make so many mistakes?
That is my assessment.  A national champion must play 5 games with minimal mistakes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2011, 09:25:22 PM
jonny and ralph, you are probably right.  maybe they got all the mistakes out today and the next 4 will be mistake free.  i doubt it though, have seen it all too often.  the last 5 years they have been plenty talented enough to compete at the top level.  they just as easily could have lost today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 19, 2011, 09:57:39 PM
Hobart represented their school, alum and former players well today.  With all the injuries, adversity of getting screwed on the draw they got and the criticism for the 8 game schedule...plus they got down big early.....but they fought back and had the game for the taking at the end.

I know for the players it is no consolation after a loss like that...but some day they will look back (while they are posting on d3.com on a saterday nite) and be proud of what they did today...

+k to Hobart!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 12:44:15 AM
I've had a smile on my face since about 3pm EST today.  I alluded to why earlier, but I wanted to elaborate on the reasons after what could only be called a real success story for the East Region and for the Division.

Over the past few seasons, you've heard people, including myself, dwell on two main ideas: 1) subjectivity needs to play a role in the selection process of Division III football's tournament; and 2) the East has been getting a raw deal when it comes to reputation and bracketing.  When we saw the tournament selections last weekend and learned that the Committee lived up to a promise they had been making (that a quality undefeated East Region team would be a #1 seed if one existed) and allowed the East to spread out into out-of-region games.  On top of that, instead of diluting the East Region pool with an additional NEFC team, we saw subjectivity give St. John Fisher a chance with two losses.

Now, those things, in and of themselves were reason for celebration.  However, what if Fisher fell flat in their game and the East lost all of the cross-regional matchups?  After all these seasons of complaining and yelling and praying, a poor showing by either or both could have had permanent negative effects in future years' selections and bracketing; the East Region teams would've shown themselves as deserving of the reputation and treatment, and two-loss teams that took risks in scheduling would've watched their positive scheduling philosophies get trampled on one more time.

Yet, it didn't happen that way.  Fisher won.  The EAST won.  And thus, THE DIVISION won.  Why? 

As far as the East goes, with Hobart challenging the Wesley juggernaut, Fisher beating formerly undefeated Johns Hopklins and Kean trouncing Christopher Newport early and often, maybe there will be one more real challenger in the national landscape that we hadn't counted on before these playoffs are complete.  That makes the whole process more exciting -- nobody's just playing for a fifth-place tie anymore, something that used to make the East Region games somewhat anticlimatic when you took a step back and looked at what the teams' real hopes were with Mount Union at the top.  That can only help the Division gain in terms of excitement and competition moving forward.  We used to dwell on the idea that the East Region's major conferences were deeper than most conferences in other regions.  Maybe we saw that idea finally panning out.

And with that depth issue, there's the idea that depth and strength in scheduling those teams inside those deep conferences could lead to more than one loss on the season for some teams.  Fisher was one such team, losing to playoff teams Hobart and Salisbury this year.  One thing people need to realize is that the Committee did NOT break away from their use of the SoS numbers we criticize.  Instead, what they finally began to do was look at the differential in SoS figures between teams with one more/less loss and compare them.  If there was a large enough differential, they looked at each team's quality of loss(es) and quality of wins/scheduling.  That's what became evident in listening to Committee Chair Joy Solomen on "In the HuddLLe" last weekend.  She admitted there was subjectivity, but it was done inside the boundaries of the SoS structure in order to satisfy the NCAA's mandates.  Thus, your resume still means a lot if you're at two losses and hoping for an at-large bid.

With all that said, Fisher proved once and for all, perhaps with Endicott's help today in a close affair against a Mt. Ida team that really has no regional, let alone national respect, that if the intent of Pools B and C is to include the strongest teams possible in the playoffs, number of losses isn't the way to derive that strength.  Any future two-loss team that wins an at-large bid over one-loss candidates will have Fisher to thank for years to come.

I'm not here trying to pat myself or others on the back for our public stances that might have helped draw these changes.  I'm here, rather, to congratulate and thank the Committee for taking chances.  I'm also here to thank the East Region teams for making their biggest supporters look right.  This wasn't a day for just the East to celebrate, but for the entire Division -- and it's a day that won't soon be forgotten.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2011, 01:01:16 AM
Frank, nice post.  But may I remind you of 2008?  Wheaton (IL), probably 32nd team in (2 losses); they went to the semis!  SJF still has some big shoes to fill before you anoint them as pathfinders.

There was no 'flood' of 2-loss teams after Wheaton (despite their success); we shall see whether anyone has any such 'flood' to thank SJF for.

I think your celebration of 'quality' over 'strict criteria' is premature. :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 20, 2011, 01:04:47 AM
Great post Frank. Totally agree with your assessment.  Awesome day for the East Region.

That said, I figured that I'd share my experience today.

I caught the Endicott/Mt Ida game with "Utes". Let's just start off nice and say that the NCAA made a great decision by taking St John Fisher. Both having down years, I'm pretty confident that both RPI and Ithaca would have won the NEFC this year.

Outside of Norwich, Endicott(or Mt Ida) would have not competed in any playoff games today. Both teams had some really talented kids. I won't take that away. To be honest, I was surprised at how athletic and put together some of the Mt Ida kids were. They gained more respect from me today than anything. But EC is somewhere around Hartwick or St.Lawrence level(this year's versions) at best. Good athletes, decent size, but just not on the same level.

Lastly, I watched several amazing D1 games tonight and in none of them did I see anything nearly as ridiculous as Endicott's D tackle that was half naked with his jersey barely covering his shoulder pads. He looked ridiculous and if Mt Ida had more than 6 fans, he would have been a field day for heckling from the sidelines. Do some squats dude.

Charles, my apologies that I didn't come away in awe. Til next year...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 20, 2011, 07:57:21 AM
frank, excellent post. +1.  now the east gets to beat on the east this week with the kean - salisbury and del val - fisher games.  that will guarentee 2 east teams in the quarters which would be one more than if they had stayed regional and moved mount in.  the east will get to show its strength or not when they likely play uww and st thomas.  if neither team makes it to the semis then the east is still where it was, just a step shy of that level that i think the east posters felt they should have had a chance to reach had the east stayed a true east region.  yesterday surely showed that the east teams can compete and any of us who have seen the top teams from the east already knew that.  can they take the next step?  in 2 weeks we at least get the chance to find out.  the second round games overall are better than they have been in years, only uww and mount look like they have no brainers, the rest look like they are all toss ups.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
2008 was an anomaly year looking back.  Dr. Kaiser had a much different view of the world than the committees since, and the SoS back then was either the old SoS or the unrefined version of the current one.  Also, in 2008, were there any 1-loss teams left on the table?  This was the year that Curry (probably the best runner-up team the NEFC ever has touted) won a Pool C bid.  It also was the year that carnage occurred of the wildest kind on the final Saturday of the regular season over a 30-minute stretch (including RPI losing to MMA); about five or six teams fell during the stretch in shocking fashion.

Regardless of one-loss teams remaining on the board back then, it's been clear that the Committee has felt their hands were tied with such scenarios over the last couple years.  They were using SoS (objective) to only compare teams with equal losses for selection purposes.  They got the NCAA to approve a couple different changes, according to the Committee Chair, that made SJF possible.  Endicott and Case wondered aloud about how strong SJF really could be -- and a single win here against a potential 2/3 seed by SJF is enough to help validate the new changes.  I'd encourage you to listen to "In the HuddLLe" when we had Dr. Kaiser on in 2008 and compare it to Joy Solomen in 2011.  You'll see that the discussion felt a lot different and that the current Committee had to work with the higher-ups to make this happen.  With Endicott and Case upset, the higher-ups were likely watching the results and felt justified that the changes worked.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 20, 2011, 01:11:34 PM
With Wesley HOSTING Linfield this round the seeding debate from earlier should be settled now...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 20, 2011, 01:11:34 PM
With Wesley HOSTING Linfield this round the seeding debate from earlier should be settled now...

No, since they could've been equally seeded -- or there could've been a mismatch seeding scenario because of the Linfield/Cal Lute necessity.  All we know is that Wesley was the #2 seed for sure.  Nothing else follows.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 20, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 20, 2011, 01:11:34 PM
With Wesley HOSTING Linfield this round the seeding debate from earlier should be settled now...

No, since they could've been equally seeded -- or there could've been a mismatch seeding scenario because of the Linfield/Cal Lute necessity.  All we know is that Wesley was the #2 seed for sure.  Nothing else follows.

So Linfield could have been the #2 seed?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 05:07:43 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 20, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 20, 2011, 01:11:34 PM
With Wesley HOSTING Linfield this round the seeding debate from earlier should be settled now...

No, since they could've been equally seeded -- or there could've been a mismatch seeding scenario because of the Linfield/Cal Lute necessity.  All we know is that Wesley was the #2 seed for sure.  Nothing else follows.

So Linfield could have been the #2 seed?

No, I was saying SJF and Hobart could've been equally seeded numerically.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 20, 2011, 05:10:57 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 05:07:43 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 20, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 20, 2011, 01:11:34 PM
With Wesley HOSTING Linfield this round the seeding debate from earlier should be settled now...

No, since they could've been equally seeded -- or there could've been a mismatch seeding scenario because of the Linfield/Cal Lute necessity.  All we know is that Wesley was the #2 seed for sure.  Nothing else follows.

So Linfield could have been the #2 seed?

No, I was saying SJF and Hobart could've been equally seeded numerically.

Yea I was going to say.  Wesley hosting Linfield doesn't really have anything to do with SJFs seed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on December 12, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
2008 was an anomaly year looking back.  Dr. Kaiser had a much different view of the world than the committees since, and the SoS back then was either the old SoS or the unrefined version of the current one.  Also, in 2008, were there any 1-loss teams left on the table?  This was the year that Curry (probably the best runner-up team the NEFC ever has touted) won a Pool C bid.  It also was the year that carnage occurred of the wildest kind on the final Saturday of the regular season over a 30-minute stretch (including RPI losing to MMA); about five or six teams fell during the stretch in shocking fashion.

Regardless of one-loss teams remaining on the board back then, it's been clear that the Committee has felt their hands were tied with such scenarios over the last couple years.  They were using SoS (objective) to only compare teams with equal losses for selection purposes.  They got the NCAA to approve a couple different changes, according to the Committee Chair, that made SJF possible.  Endicott and Case wondered aloud about how strong SJF really could be -- and a single win here against a potential 2/3 seed by SJF is enough to help validate the new changes.  I'd encourage you to listen to "In the HuddLLe" when we had Dr. Kaiser on in 2008 and compare it to Joy Solomen in 2011.  You'll see that the discussion felt a lot different and that the current Committee had to work with the higher-ups to make this happen.  With Endicott and Case upset, the higher-ups were likely watching the results and felt justified that the changes worked.

Frank,
  Do we know if it was the National Committee promoting Fisher over Endicott within the East Regional Rankings or was it the East RR Committee that submitted Fisher over Endicott in the final-final rankings?  I'm presuming it was the latter, meaning that the pressure will be on the regional committees in the future to present their rankings in order of which team they believe will be the best representative in the tournament rather than based on record.  If that were the case this year, would Wheaton have been on the board prior to Case (if they weren't)?  And would they have gotten in ahead or Fisher or Illinois College?  I guess I'm hoping that the Regional Rankings will start to look more like the Fan Rankings going forward, so that we have brackets as compelling as this year's every year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on December 12, 2011, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on December 12, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
2008 was an anomaly year looking back.  Dr. Kaiser had a much different view of the world than the committees since, and the SoS back then was either the old SoS or the unrefined version of the current one.  Also, in 2008, were there any 1-loss teams left on the table?  This was the year that Curry (probably the best runner-up team the NEFC ever has touted) won a Pool C bid.  It also was the year that carnage occurred of the wildest kind on the final Saturday of the regular season over a 30-minute stretch (including RPI losing to MMA); about five or six teams fell during the stretch in shocking fashion.

Regardless of one-loss teams remaining on the board back then, it's been clear that the Committee has felt their hands were tied with such scenarios over the last couple years.  They were using SoS (objective) to only compare teams with equal losses for selection purposes.  They got the NCAA to approve a couple different changes, according to the Committee Chair, that made SJF possible.  Endicott and Case wondered aloud about how strong SJF really could be -- and a single win here against a potential 2/3 seed by SJF is enough to help validate the new changes.  I'd encourage you to listen to "In the HuddLLe" when we had Dr. Kaiser on in 2008 and compare it to Joy Solomen in 2011.  You'll see that the discussion felt a lot different and that the current Committee had to work with the higher-ups to make this happen.  With Endicott and Case upset, the higher-ups were likely watching the results and felt justified that the changes worked.

Frank,
  Do we know if it was the National Committee promoting Fisher over Endicott within the East Regional Rankings or was it the East RR Committee that submitted Fisher over Endicott in the final-final rankings?  I'm presuming it was the latter, meaning that the pressure will be on the regional committees in the future to present their rankings in order of which team they believe will be the best representative in the tournament rather than based on record.  If that were the case this year, would Wheaton have been on the board prior to Case (if they weren't)?  And would they have gotten in ahead or Fisher or Illinois College?  I guess I'm hoping that the Regional Rankings will start to look more like the Fan Rankings going forward, so that we have brackets as compelling as this year's every year.

Totally agree about the brackets, it was extremely interesting to see so many match ups between different regions early in the brackets...

I hope it continues going forward, made for a much more exciting tourney...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 12, 2011, 04:44:38 PM
Quote from: Upstate on December 12, 2011, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on December 12, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
2008 was an anomaly year looking back.  Dr. Kaiser had a much different view of the world than the committees since, and the SoS back then was either the old SoS or the unrefined version of the current one.  Also, in 2008, were there any 1-loss teams left on the table?  This was the year that Curry (probably the best runner-up team the NEFC ever has touted) won a Pool C bid.  It also was the year that carnage occurred of the wildest kind on the final Saturday of the regular season over a 30-minute stretch (including RPI losing to MMA); about five or six teams fell during the stretch in shocking fashion.

Regardless of one-loss teams remaining on the board back then, it's been clear that the Committee has felt their hands were tied with such scenarios over the last couple years.  They were using SoS (objective) to only compare teams with equal losses for selection purposes.  They got the NCAA to approve a couple different changes, according to the Committee Chair, that made SJF possible.  Endicott and Case wondered aloud about how strong SJF really could be -- and a single win here against a potential 2/3 seed by SJF is enough to help validate the new changes.  I'd encourage you to listen to "In the HuddLLe" when we had Dr. Kaiser on in 2008 and compare it to Joy Solomen in 2011.  You'll see that the discussion felt a lot different and that the current Committee had to work with the higher-ups to make this happen.  With Endicott and Case upset, the higher-ups were likely watching the results and felt justified that the changes worked.

Frank,
  Do we know if it was the National Committee promoting Fisher over Endicott within the East Regional Rankings or was it the East RR Committee that submitted Fisher over Endicott in the final-final rankings?  I'm presuming it was the latter, meaning that the pressure will be on the regional committees in the future to present their rankings in order of which team they believe will be the best representative in the tournament rather than based on record.  If that were the case this year, would Wheaton have been on the board prior to Case (if they weren't)?  And would they have gotten in ahead or Fisher or Illinois College?  I guess I'm hoping that the Regional Rankings will start to look more like the Fan Rankings going forward, so that we have brackets as compelling as this year's every year.

Totally agree about the brackets, it was extremely interesting to see so many match ups between different regions early in the brackets...

I hope it continues going forward, made for a much more exciting tourney...


I agree, it especially allows teams in that upper echelon of Division III to play each other, for example we would have never seen Wesley v. Linfield, Salisbury v. Wisconsin-Whitewater, St. John Fisher v. St. Thomas, and Mount Union v. Wabash based on recent year's models. Honestly, not taking money into account, I am all for having the whole playoff a free for all, not having 'regionality' in effect (seeding still in effect). Possibly seeing games between Kean v. MHB, Illinois College v. H-SC, and SJF v. Trinity and seeing which of those come out on top.  Even though I was hoping for a different Stagg this year, I enjoyed what the committee did this year with the cross-regional matchups.  Also, some season games that I was pleased to see were N.C. Wesleyan v. Ohio Northern, Wittenberg v. Huntingdon, and Mount Union v. UW-Oshkosh (Seem as though Ohio teams are willing to go either West, South, or East).  Nevertheless, the team that I give credit to playing the most interesting schedule was Wesley College.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 13, 2011, 12:01:59 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on December 12, 2011, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 20, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
2008 was an anomaly year looking back.  Dr. Kaiser had a much different view of the world than the committees since, and the SoS back then was either the old SoS or the unrefined version of the current one.  Also, in 2008, were there any 1-loss teams left on the table?  This was the year that Curry (probably the best runner-up team the NEFC ever has touted) won a Pool C bid.  It also was the year that carnage occurred of the wildest kind on the final Saturday of the regular season over a 30-minute stretch (including RPI losing to MMA); about five or six teams fell during the stretch in shocking fashion.

Regardless of one-loss teams remaining on the board back then, it's been clear that the Committee has felt their hands were tied with such scenarios over the last couple years.  They were using SoS (objective) to only compare teams with equal losses for selection purposes.  They got the NCAA to approve a couple different changes, according to the Committee Chair, that made SJF possible.  Endicott and Case wondered aloud about how strong SJF really could be -- and a single win here against a potential 2/3 seed by SJF is enough to help validate the new changes.  I'd encourage you to listen to "In the HuddLLe" when we had Dr. Kaiser on in 2008 and compare it to Joy Solomen in 2011.  You'll see that the discussion felt a lot different and that the current Committee had to work with the higher-ups to make this happen.  With Endicott and Case upset, the higher-ups were likely watching the results and felt justified that the changes worked.

Frank,
  Do we know if it was the National Committee promoting Fisher over Endicott within the East Regional Rankings or was it the East RR Committee that submitted Fisher over Endicott in the final-final rankings?  I'm presuming it was the latter, meaning that the pressure will be on the regional committees in the future to present their rankings in order of which team they believe will be the best representative in the tournament rather than based on record.  If that were the case this year, would Wheaton have been on the board prior to Case (if they weren't)?  And would they have gotten in ahead or Fisher or Illinois College?  I guess I'm hoping that the Regional Rankings will start to look more like the Fan Rankings going forward, so that we have brackets as compelling as this year's every year.

By new rule this year, the National Committee could not change the positioning of the Regional Subcommittee.  Thus, the East Regional Subcommittee submitted Fisher over Endicott.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 11, 2012, 08:19:36 PM
Red Dragons over Framingham .....by a good margin!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 11, 2012, 08:39:25 PM
Congratulations to Cortland on win over Ithaca and Playoff opportunity. I see you winning a couple . Good luck :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 11, 2012, 08:43:38 PM
Not looking past round 1,....although my last snap was in 2000, round 2 looks interesting as it should take place at Wesley.  Would love to be in Cortland next Saturday but weight certifications for the wrestling season are a priority!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 11, 2012, 09:54:35 PM
You are right, one at a time... and ,yes Wesley is very tough
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 11, 2012, 10:17:55 PM
I think Bart got a nice draw. If they have truely moved into the elite this season anything less than a trip to Minnesota is a disappointment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 09:31:00 AM
Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2012, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 09:31:00 AM
Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17

Any pick on the AU-Springfield game, Dogg?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

The problem is that pretty much only ONE team out of the 16 current NEFC teams (Salve) is even trying to consistently schedule stornger OOC opponents.  I think we all understand that Maine-Maritime, Nichols, or Mass-Dartmouth probably aren't lining up to take on the likes of Hobart, Fisher, Widener, etc.  But Bridgewater has gone over a DECADE plus of not scheduling anyone outside of the NEFC.  Their ONE game that was outside the NEFC (against Norwich) wasn't scheduled, as it was an ECAC bid.  You start getting over ten plus years on not playing out of conference opponents, and to me that shows a blantant attempt to avoid anyone difficult.  That is borderline NESCAC right there...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 11:51:30 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 14, 2012, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 09:31:00 AM
Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17

Any pick on the AU-Springfield game, Dogg?

Is that game for real?  it's not on the schedule.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 11:56:23 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

The problem is that pretty much only ONE team out of the 16 current NEFC teams (Salve) is even trying to consistently schedule stornger OOC opponents.  I think we all understand that Maine-Maritime, Nichols, or Mass-Dartmouth probably aren't lining up to take on the likes of Hobart, Fisher, Widener, etc.  But Bridgewater has gone over a DECADE plus of not scheduling anyone outside of the NEFC.  Their ONE game that was outside the NEFC (against Norwich) wasn't scheduled, as it was an ECAC bid.  You start getting over ten plus years on not playing out of conference opponents, and to me that shows a blantant attempt to avoid anyone difficult.  That is borderline NESCAC right there...

Let's not even go the 'difficult' route. Let's just blame it on travel.  So, how about Springfield, Mt. Ida, Plymouth St., Becker???  Something!  It's awful and to me it's just lazy.  And to answer this question 'Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the nonconference schedules of NEFC teams?'  All 3 OOC games?  NO!  But i'm sure any LL or E8 teams would be MORE than willing to schedule one of those games.  Instead, they have to look to NJ, PA, or VT for a softball.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 11:56:23 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

The problem is that pretty much only ONE team out of the 16 current NEFC teams (Salve) is even trying to consistently schedule stornger OOC opponents.  I think we all understand that Maine-Maritime, Nichols, or Mass-Dartmouth probably aren't lining up to take on the likes of Hobart, Fisher, Widener, etc.  But Bridgewater has gone over a DECADE plus of not scheduling anyone outside of the NEFC.  Their ONE game that was outside the NEFC (against Norwich) wasn't scheduled, as it was an ECAC bid.  You start getting over ten plus years on not playing out of conference opponents, and to me that shows a blantant attempt to avoid anyone difficult.  That is borderline NESCAC right there...

Let's not even go the 'difficult' route. Let's just blame it on travel.  So, how about Springfield, Mt. Ida, Plymouth St., Becker???  Something!  It's awful and to me it's just lazy.  And to answer this question 'Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the nonconference schedules of NEFC teams?'  All 3 OOC games?  NO!  But i'm sure any LL or E8 teams would be MORE than willing to schedule one of those games.  Instead, they have to look to NJ, PA, or VT for a softball.

Yep...all of this...100%...+k...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 14, 2012, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

I make a quick joke about this on another board, but now I'm thinking the NCAA might be serious.

Maybe this is a message to E8, LL, and MAC teams to seek out NEFC and ECFC teams to fill out their schedules?  Those schools do have more resources to travel after all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 14, 2012, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

dlip hears ya but he just doesn't concurr. Listen, East Region teams as a whole (outside of the NEFC/ECFC) kick the **** out of each other annually. Many schedule some decent OOC competition to better their program, attract recruits, and to gain more respect nationally. While this may pay off regarding D3.com rankings it hardly seems to pay off all that much when it comes to getting bids pool C bids. What the NCAA has shown us time and again is that record counts big time. SOOOOO much so that ****ing Bridgewater gets in over many teams across the nation who would ****ing stomp them. So to respond to what you said earlier dlip believes at this point, many teams in the NJAC, LL, E8, and MAC will line up to play games against teams in the ECFC and NEFC that they should beat to just better their record. This could be especially true if coaches think in terms of defeating in region ranked teams towards the end of the year. A win this year against a team like Framingham would benefit many bubble teams like Lycoming, Rowan, and many others who if you took away a loss and replaced it with an OOC in region ranked team win, would look good to the NCAA when selecting pool C teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 04:09:37 PM
Like most East Region fans, I am getting a bit tired of this.  In almost every instance, I am for showing good sportsmanship and pumping the brakes when your team is fully in control of the game.  But because the NEFC and ECFC almost exclusively keep their games in house, and then somehow acutally manage to steal a Pool C bid from other more deserving teams around the nation (thanks NCAA!!!), I honestly hope that Widener (vs. Bridgewater State), Wesley (vs. Mt. Ida), and Cortland (vs. Framingham State) absolutely destory their opponents this weekend.  I wouldn't let up for a single second.  I wouldn't let them score garbage TD's late in the game to give an appearance that the game was even a bit closer.  I don't know what it will take to get the NCAA committee to open up their eyes on this issue...but I guess 62-24 losses (WNEC vs. Salisbury last year) and and 62-10 losses (Norwich vs. Delaware Valley) aren't doing the job.  Maybe something like 84-7 or 77-0 losses would finally change their minds...

I would do all I could to ensure that there was never any confusion going forward that the stonger conferences (in this case the MAC, NJAC, and Wesley as an independent) get teams left out of the tournament via a Pool C bid for a one loss NEFC, ECFC, or god forbid MASCAC team moving forward.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 14, 2012, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

dlip hears ya but he just doesn't concurr. Listen, East Region teams as a whole (outside of the NEFC/ECFC) kick the **** out of each other annually. Many schedule some decent OOC competition to better their program, attract recruits, and to gain more respect nationally. While this may pay off regarding D3.com rankings it hardly seems to pay off all that much when it comes to getting bids pool C bids. What the NCAA has shown us time and again is that record counts big time. SOOOOO much so that ****ing Bridgewater gets in over many teams across the nation who would ****ing stomp them. So to respond to what you said earlier dlip believes at this point, many teams in the NJAC, LL, E8, and MAC will line up to play games against teams in the ECFC and NEFC that they should beat to just better their record. This could be especially true if coaches think in terms of defeating in region ranked teams towards the end of the year. A win this year against a team like Framingham would benefit many bubble teams like Lycoming, Rowan, and many others who if you took away a loss and replaced it with an OOC in region ranked team win, would look good to the NCAA when selecting pool C teams.

More than anything, a win for a 1 or 2 loss team against a Framingham, Bridgewater, Salve, Endicott, etc, would be a HUGE SOS boost.  It would tell the committee if Bridgewater is any good if they were to win, and if they lose it puts them in their correct place.  If the E8, LL, NJAC team got the win, how nice would a win over an 8-2 Bridgewater look on the SOS?   NEFC can still get their 1 team bid, but the Pool C has to earn it.  It doesn't have to be Mt. Union, but it could just be Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 14, 2012, 04:25:50 PM


dlip hears ya but he just doesn't concurr. Listen, East Region teams as a whole (outside of the NEFC/ECFC) kick the **** out of each other annually. Many schedule some decent OOC competition to better their program, attract recruits, and to gain more respect nationally. While this may pay off regarding D3.com rankings it hardly seems to pay off all that much when it comes to getting bids pool C bids. What the NCAA has shown us time and again is that record counts big time. SOOOOO much so that ****ing Bridgewater gets in over many teams across the nation who would ****ing stomp them. So to respond to what you said earlier dlip believes at this point, many teams in the NJAC, LL, E8, and MAC will line up to play games against teams in the ECFC and NEFC that they should beat to just better their record. This could be especially true if coaches think in terms of defeating in region ranked teams towards the end of the year. A win this year against a team like Framingham would benefit many bubble teams like Lycoming, Rowan, and many others who if you took away a loss and replaced it with an OOC in region ranked team win, would look good to the NCAA when selecting pool C teams.
[/quote]

+K dlip
I agree that it's a relative easy win playing the NEFC, but at the point these get scheduled, how do you know if one of these teams is going to be regionally ranked?...If teams in the NJAC and MAC (at least ...including Wesley), need a game against a "cupcake" opponent, there are plenty to be had closer to home...
In many cases it's better to schedule a local team with a mediocre SOS, since it would benefit more than travelling far to get a (likely) weaker SOS number....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 14, 2012, 04:27:38 PM
You know Yanks dlip agrees 100%. He too is one on sportsmanship and can admit he was a bit annoyed at Widener's 90 point win but probably overreacted. dlip hopes that the Pride, Cortland, and Wesley ****ing destroy all three NEFC/ECFC teams to make a statement. Now does dlip feel the NCAA will take notice? No, especially that bo bo commitee chair. Yet for anything to change it needs to be noticed and even more obvious. Dlip feels that the auto-bid should be there but maybe with some stimulations. For instance pressure on these conferences to play OOC games against conferences outside of New England. If not maybe one bid to an ECFC champion vs NEFC champion or MASCAC champion. Whatever...the **** won't change.

*Don't get dlip wrong, he is not anti-ECFC/NEFC/MASCAC, he just feels it not right that now 3 at large bids will be taken up by what has proven to be inferior competition. To earn the bids these conferences should be forced to actually earn them by playing others not just for existing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 14, 2012, 04:29:56 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 14, 2012, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 14, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 14, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2012, 10:01:55 AM
I did not check it, so I am trusting the stat, but wow that stat about Framingham playing outside the NEFC twice in 12 years is absurd!

Yeah, and it was Norwich in an ECAC game in 2010.  Not exactly a world beater.

So basically only postseason games. Their OOC games are basically in conference. I doubt that changes when they split. How boring.

That is terrible...and should have immediately disqualified them from consideration this year.

So basically, in the past 12 years, this game coming up is their first game against a team NOT from the NEFC or the ECFC?  I never want to hear the NEFC fans complain again...

Couple of thoughts on this note:

1) something we often ignore is that the NEFC is basically two conferences (which will be official next year). However you feel about the competition level, there is at least SOME logic to playing your OOC games against "peer" institutions that are nearby.  Is it really all that different from the LL having a lot of crossover games against the E8, or the MAC and NJAC playing a lot of noncoference games against one another?

2) if the NEFC schools collectively decided "enough is enough, from now on we are ALL going to start scheduling other teams for our OOC games" - where are all of those games against quality opponents going to come from? Do you think the LL, E8, and NJAC scos are going to line up and start giving away THEIR relatively sparse number of OOC games to fill out the noncoference schedules of NEFC teams? Think Hobart and SJF fans would get excited about a game against MIT or Endicott?

Yes, I give Salve a ton of credit and would love to see the NEFC schools at least TRY to schedule the occasional noncoference game against their other East brethren. But let's not pretend that there are dozens of ready and willing opponents that would happily volunteer to play those games (because it would take a lot more than one or two teams - with 16 NEFC teams, getting all of them ONE quality OOC opponent per year would require the majority of 2-3 conferences to agree to play one of those teams).

dlip hears ya but he just doesn't concurr. Listen, East Region teams as a whole (outside of the NEFC/ECFC) kick the **** out of each other annually. Many schedule some decent OOC competition to better their program, attract recruits, and to gain more respect nationally. While this may pay off regarding D3.com rankings it hardly seems to pay off all that much when it comes to getting bids pool C bids. What the NCAA has shown us time and again is that record counts big time. SOOOOO much so that ****ing Bridgewater gets in over many teams across the nation who would ****ing stomp them. So to respond to what you said earlier dlip believes at this point, many teams in the NJAC, LL, E8, and MAC will line up to play games against teams in the ECFC and NEFC that they should beat to just better their record. This could be especially true if coaches think in terms of defeating in region ranked teams towards the end of the year. A win this year against a team like Framingham would benefit many bubble teams like Lycoming, Rowan, and many others who if you took away a loss and replaced it with an OOC in region ranked team win, would look good to the NCAA when selecting pool C teams.

More than anything, a win for a 1 or 2 loss team against a Framingham, Bridgewater, Salve, Endicott, etc, would be a HUGE SOS boost.  It would tell the committee if Bridgewater is any good if they were to win, and if they lose it puts them in their correct place.  If the E8, LL, NJAC team got the win, how nice would a win over an 8-2 Bridgewater look on the SOS?   NEFC can still get their 1 team bid, but the Pool C has to earn it.  It doesn't have to be Mt. Union, but it could just be Union.

But Lewdogg, I think thats the point...it's not just the SOS, the SOOS factors in...so, while a win against the 8-2 team doesn't hurt, getting the SOOS numbers for the rest of the NEFC which are horrific, would hurt. 

To an extent, that hurts the MAC every year, given that there are very few OOC games, its hard to get your numbers to a level that does't hurt at playoff time...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 14, 2012, 04:52:56 PM
A very valid point bman but remember there is more to this than just SOS. You wouldn't know you were defeating and in region ranked team obviously but, looking at what the NCAA's regional rankings usually look like they include a 0 or 1 loss NEFC/ECFC team (and now an MASCAC team) by scheduling an Endicott, Salve, Framingham, Norwich, Maritime you set yourself up for a potential in regiin ranked win because it is much easier for one of those teams to become an east region ranked team. If they are not going to be good then you do the east region a favor by defeating them and showing the inferiority of most teams from those conferences. It's a win win, unless tou lose.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 14, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 14, 2012, 03:22:11 PM

dlip hears ya but he just doesn't concurr. Listen, East Region teams as a whole (outside of the NEFC/ECFC) kick the **** out of each other annually. Many schedule some decent OOC competition to better their program, attract recruits, and to gain more respect nationally. While this may pay off regarding D3.com rankings it hardly seems to pay off all that much when it comes to getting bids pool C bids. What the NCAA has shown us time and again is that record counts big time. SOOOOO much so that ****ing Bridgewater gets in over many teams across the nation who would ****ing stomp them. So to respond to what you said earlier dlip believes at this point, many teams in the NJAC, LL, E8, and MAC will line up to play games against teams in the ECFC and NEFC that they should beat to just better their record. This could be especially true if coaches think in terms of defeating in region ranked teams towards the end of the year. A win this year against a team like Framingham would benefit many bubble teams like Lycoming, Rowan, and many others who if you took away a loss and replaced it with an OOC in region ranked team win, would look good to the NCAA when selecting pool C teams.

I get tired of hearing this excuse for East Region teams. Yes, they schedule decent/good teams OOC, and have tough conference games, but it's not like we're in the SEC. I think our teams are just inconsistent. Buffalo State was all over the map this year. A team good enough to beat UW-W on the road (even in a down year) and Cortland State should be able to beat anyone in the E8 save maybe Salisbury. Instead they drop three conference games.

Or look at Union. Is Utica, Ithaca, and Salve that challenging of an OOC slate? Should they have won all three of those games? No, but there was no reason why they couldn't have won at least two—especially the Ithaca game, which they just handed to the Bombers (for the second year in a row, no less). Ithaca/Cortland fans always say "Throw out the records" as if it's impossible that one of the teams could ever be better and demonstrate that on the field.

Heck, not to pick on the Dutchmen, but they probably could have gone 9-1 in 2011 too. They allowed late scores to Utica and Salve, and spent the entire IC game turning the ball over—that game was much closer than the score indicated. I think the tough schedules are part of it, yes but we also have not seen week in-week out consistency from teams in the NJAC/E8/LL required to go 8-2/9-1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fulbakdad on November 14, 2012, 08:09:31 PM
Ok, on the probablity of getting blasted just once again......

My son is a Sophmore at a MWC school now.  He was recruited by many East teams because he was an All New England player at a NEPSAC school.  So we hear from many of the teams being mentioned in this thread.  Ithaca, Springfield, and Salve were his top three besides the school in Chicago he ended up at.

The Salve Coach, Chesney, was very proud that he was going out of conferance and trying to establish themselves out of the NEFC norm.  He did that.  Now it's no fault of his that Union and Monclair decided to have off years.  He scheduled, or the school did, to play teams that had some history and were from more competitive conferances.  So last year, they go 1-1 against those teams and this year they beat both. 

So even mention that Salve is either moving up, or attempting to, and you get attacked.

Then teams that come from the same conference that end up winning move on and everyone yells at the division because they never play out of it.  There's no way anyone will ever gain your respect.

If Salve had won, and were moving on, you would all just be yelling they came from a weak conferance.

I'm not saying I agree that they will get 2 AQ's after the mix.  But until the NCAA fixes the problem, I just don't see what can be gained?????

If this is supposed to be one division, which I don't think it is, than everyone has the same right to become champion to becomming champion.  I wish there would become a division 4 in addition to division 3.  There is just that big of a divide.

Just my thoughts.

Go ahead, blast away......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 14, 2012, 08:21:23 PM
FBDad, a NEFC team playing in the playoffs is playing its 2nd non NEFC team in 12 years...

That's pathetic and it deserves every bit of bashing it gets...

The NEFC teams lose by a combined 70+ points minimum...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fulbakdad on November 14, 2012, 08:31:13 PM
I don't disagree upstate. 

I'm not a supporter of those teams.  Just an observer. 

But don't hate the player, hate the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 14, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 11:51:30 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 14, 2012, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 14, 2012, 09:31:00 AM
Ok, here goes nothing...

LD's Picks of the Week(week week week week)

NCAA
Wesley - 67
Mt. Ida - 13
I think this one is gonna be ugly. 

Hobart - 35
Washington and Lee - 21
I think this score will look closer than the actual game.  I think Hobart is the superior team here.

Widener - 56
Bridgewater State - 17
Bottom line is Bridgewater State should not be playing in this game.  I think the score will show that.

Salisbury - 28
Rowan - 24
Probably the game of the week.  It could be a toss up, but I think Salisbury is better than they're getting credit for.

Cortland St. - 42
Framingham St. - 6
Framingham at least WON the NEFC and slayed the Salve dragon.  But I still think they are not ready for the big time.  This will be the 2nd non-NEFC team Framingham has played in 12 years.  Hopefully Cortland welcomes them properly.

ECAC
St. John Fisher - 45
Castleton St. - 6

Endicott - 35
Norwich - 17

Any pick on the AU-Springfield game, Dogg?

Is that game for real?  it's not on the schedule.

Pep has no idea why it's not listed, although, understandably, this site isn't gung ho about ECAC bowl games.

http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=7821

Either way, Pep is making the 6-hour trip.  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 09:52:02 PM
fullbakdad,

Are you THAT much of a selective reader?  I'm pretty sure everyone here will agree that we think Salve IS doing the right things, and that people were rooting a little for Salve for a majority of the year...right up until they lost to MIT.  Had they won that game, their OOC probably would have made them worthy of the Pool C bid, even with a loss last weekend.  Salve proved they belonged with their out of conference performances, but they sh!t the bed against an inferior MIT team and in the game that mattered the most.  Take Salve out of the equation and there shouldn't be another Pool C given this year.  Curry got it a few years back but they earned it.  Bridgewater has no right to a Pool C bid and Widener will prove this once again this weekend.  We live with the AQs, but the Pool C's hurt a lot.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 14, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
And just to make my last point clear, the entire NEFC does NOT get credit for Salve's OOC scheduling and therefore should not be rewarded as such.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2012, 10:46:10 PM
By the way, I wouldn't look to the MAC for those OOC games... remember, that conference is now ten teams deep meaning there is just ONE game for those teams to schedule outside of the conference. The fact they already have some serious travel inside the conference will keep some from making a long trip to start the season and the fact a conference has a weak SOS overall will keep them from wanting to hurt their own SOS (OWP and OOWP).

And while I know it wasn't said, the MAC didn't deserve an extra bid this year. Lycoming came the closest, but had two losses on the season including one to Brockport who was 6-4. Lycoming needed Del Val to win, but not get enough points to get a bid... because it would have been automatic. There were no other MACs getting in this season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 14, 2012, 11:35:54 PM
QuotePep has no idea why it's not listed, although, understandably, this site isn't gung ho about ECAC bowl games.

It's not listed because the schools involved in the games didn't enter it into the system. They have access to enter games, just like they do box scores, game releases, etc.

We spend a lot of time entering football games into the system when the schedules are released.  Now it's basketball's turn where there are hundreds of schools with men's and women's schedules to enter, so that's where we're focused.  I entered Alfred's schedule for hoops not too long ago.

I'll enter the Alfred game and whatever ECAC games are missing.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:04:54 AM
Why did we have to enter Alfred's basketball schedule? All of the Empire 8 basketball schedules should be entered by the E8/SIDs for the E8 stats site on Presto.

That's disappointing that the conference wouldn't make sure it or the schools had the necessary schedules posted.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2012, 08:42:48 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

In all honesty...that was a great find.  Props LD...props...+k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2012, 08:58:33 AM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 14, 2012, 08:09:31 PM
Ok, on the probablity of getting blasted just once again......

My son is a Sophmore at a MWC school now.  He was recruited by many East teams because he was an All New England player at a NEPSAC school.  So we hear from many of the teams being mentioned in this thread.  Ithaca, Springfield, and Salve were his top three besides the school in Chicago he ended up at.

The Salve Coach, Chesney, was very proud that he was going out of conferance and trying to establish themselves out of the NEFC norm.  He did that.  Now it's no fault of his that Union and Monclair decided to have off years.  He scheduled, or the school did, to play teams that had some history and were from more competitive conferances.  So last year, they go 1-1 against those teams and this year they beat both. 

So even mention that Salve is either moving up, or attempting to, and you get attacked.

Then teams that come from the same conference that end up winning move on and everyone yells at the division because they never play out of it.  There's no way anyone will ever gain your respect.

If Salve had won, and were moving on, you would all just be yelling they came from a weak conferance.

I'm not saying I agree that they will get 2 AQ's after the mix.  But until the NCAA fixes the problem, I just don't see what can be gained?????

If this is supposed to be one division, which I don't think it is, than everyone has the same right to become champion to becomming champion.  I wish there would become a division 4 in addition to division 3.  There is just that big of a divide.

Just my thoughts.

Go ahead, blast away......

You need to read up a little bit, as almost everyone was actually on board with Salve as a legit playoff team if they ran the table in the NEFC.  As an example, here is a post that I made on September 10th of this year:

"I will say this...if Salve runs the table in the NEFC (and I really hope that they do), I will absolutely be the first to say that they would be a completely worthy recipient of an automatic bid this year.  Who knows where Union and Montclair State end up finishing...but I give kudos to Salve for not being the "normal" NEFC team (looking at you Curry, Endicott, and WNEC) and scheduling only NEFC and ECFC opponents.  If they (Salve) are 10-0 at the end of the year, with non-conference wins over two "good" opponents from much stronger leagues (LL and NJAC), than good for them...and they absolutely deserve their bid.

I said it last year when the Endicott folks were pissed about being left out on Selection Sunday.  You want a blue print for future success...look no further than what Salve is looking to accomplish with their out of conference scheduling."

We were all on board with Salve because there are the ONLY team in the NEFC to try to schedule competitive non-conference games.  I think people are pissed at the NEFC because they are getting a Pool C bid (in addition to their AQ champion), when anyone that follows this league even slightly knows how terrible the league is overall, and especially against better competition.  Like LD said...Framingham State hasn't played a non-NEFC team during the regular season for at least 12 years.  That is simply ridiculous...especially when everyone knows that in all likelihood Bridgewater (who got the Pool C bid) would absolutely get destroyed by almost every other fringe team that missed out on the Pool C bid.  How do I know that?  I will take the NEFC's 2-14 overall record in the NCAA's, where they are finally forced to play outside of their conference, as all the evidence I need.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2012, 09:10:39 AM
I think that the argument has been made and beaten pretty well.
To that point - Even the ppl at d3 football.com said that:

Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.

Mount Ida-One and out. Consider it payback for Mount Ida cancelling its game with Wesley in 2000.

If we see it and the guys that report it see it, then why did it happen.. I understand the aq---a little, but the other spot?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2012, 10:20:51 AM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 14, 2012, 08:09:31 PM
Ok, on the probablity of getting blasted just once again......


The Salve Coach, Chesney, was very proud that he was going out of conferance and trying to establish themselves out of the NEFC norm.  He did that.  Now it's no fault of his that Union and Monclair decided to have off years.  He scheduled, or the school did, to play teams that had some history and were from more competitive conferances.  So last year, they go 1-1 against those teams and this year they beat both. 

So even mention that Salve is either moving up, or attempting to, and you get attacked.

Then teams that come from the same conference that end up winning move on and everyone yells at the division because they never play out of it. There's no way anyone will ever gain your respect.


I think that's categorically untrue. This is, in a sense, the same thing we went through on the E8 boards with Utica for years. For a lot of posters (myself included) you need to beat quality teams in order to gain respect. Yes, Salve has attempted to beef up their schedule, and no it isn't their fault Union and Montclair had off years. But it doesn't change the fact that they did have off years, and weren't very good. Yes, it sucks, but you beat the team that is on the field, not their reputation or past teams. I feel the posters on the boards are pretty consistent with these sorts of things.



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
I say we give that other spot to Trinity (Conn).

JUST KIDDING!

Yanks,  I agree, you did say that.  But if you look back for the last two years, anytime I've even mentioned Salve, there has been a number of posters that have who won't even take a second to give them a serious look.  That's ok, I'm an underdog rooter, always have been.  I enjoy seeing a team come from behind, or from down in the rankings, and see them win much more than watching the same 5-10 teams fighting for the national championship every year.  How many teams are there in D3?  And how many even stand a chance of moving on to the second round of the playoffs?

I question myself everytime I come back here to post anything about the subject.  Again, my son doesn't play here.  He's out west.  And if you read what I've posted in our forum, you won't find me yelling that his school should be playing the in the playoffs, even though they were 8-2.  I am a realist.  They had a great year, but aren't at the level of the playoff teams from the stronger conferences (yet...).

So what's the answer to the problems?  How do you make it right for everyone?  I have said before and will again, start a D4.  And then you will find more teams competing in the right levels.  I'm sure that leagues like the NEFC, ECFC, etc would be happier competing in that level.  I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.  There is just too much difference in the levels of play which limits the competitiveness of the whole playoffs.

I hope everyone has a great time watching your teams in the playoffs.  And I agree with a previous poster, every team in every conference except the NESCAC had the chance to be in the tournament.  If you had won your conference, you'd be in.  LFC included.

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 12:01:25 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
I enjoy seeing a team come from behind, or from down in the rankings, and see them win much more than watching the same 5-10 teams fighting for the national championship every year.  How many teams are there in D3?  And how many even stand a chance of moving on to the second round of the playoffs?

So what's the answer to the problems?  How do you make it right for everyone?  I have said before and will again, start a D4.  And then you will find more teams competing in the right levels. 

Cherry picking parts of your post here, but a couple things. There are around 230 teams in D3. In any given year, in my opinion, 4-8 are of the elite level that could get enough breaks to win the title. As for how many teams realistically stand a chance to move on to the second round? 16. That is always the answer. If you are asking what percentage of the D3 universe has a chance to break into the second round for the first time, or the first time in a while, it's pretty simple. There are 16 teams in the second round, of which 6-8 are going to blowout their first round opponent because they are on a different tier (the 4-6 with a chance to win the Stagg and 2 or so more on the cusp that can win given a couple lucky breaks). So, assuming the NCAA doesn't pair the top tier teams together for $$ purposes, there are 8-10 teams in any given year with a chance to win a first playoff game or an "a-typical" first round winner. Roughly 4-5% of the D3 universe.

As for the second part of your post, I am not opposed to a D4 in concept. HOWEVER, I cannot find a way to distinguish a D3. The difference between D1, FBS and FCS, D2, and D3 is in scholarship standards. You can't distinguish a D3 from a D4 by scholarship standards since D3 does not allow scholarships. So you will have to come up with a different distinguishing characteristic. What is it going to be? State versus private won't do it. UWW is a state school, UMU is private. Endowments? Pretty arbitrary. Enrollment? UMU's isn't very big. Self-determination? What if UMU decides to be D4? How would you exclude them other than by saying "you are too good."

So you need a requirement that will make a D4 different from a D3, and I'm not sure there is a valid one to work with. The only one I can come up with is dollars spent per student athlete. I would hate to be the book-keeper charged with keeping that in compliance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 12:15:20 PM
Think outside the box then.

How are there teams that play football in D3, and hockey in d2 or d1?

The scholorship point isn't true.  The teams in the Ivy League and I believe Patriot League are considered D1, but don't give athletic scholorships.  In D2, some teams give athletic scholorships and some don't.  I know I read that Bently doesn't, it may be true to other teams in the Northeast 10.....


And this is just off the cuff talking anyways.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:27:52 PM
fulbakdad -- those schools are grandfathered in and Division III closed that loophole about eight years ago.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 15, 2012, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
So what's the answer to the problems?  How do you make it right for everyone?  I have said before and will again, start a D4.  And then you will find more teams competing in the right levels.  I'm sure that leagues like the NEFC, ECFC, etc would be happier competing in that level.  I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.  There is just too much difference in the levels of play which limits the competitiveness of the whole playoffs.

I have a simpler solution than Division IV.  If the NEFC schools collectively prefer to compete solely against their peers, then just follow the NESCAC model: play one another in conference play, hold the conference championship game, and leave it at that.  Sure, maybe they'd never get any better, but that's just the point in this scenario anyway - they're not worried about competing outside the league, so why not just live in total isolation and play vs. the peer institutions?

I know that some folks on here bash the NESCAC, but I actually have no problem with their isolated attitude.  So they just want to play each other.  Fine by me.  If the NEFC and ECFC schools are not concerned with their level of competitiveness relative to the rest of Division III that is ALSO fine by me, but there's no need to start a separate Division IV.  Just play in isolation a la the NESCAC.

Anyone that wants "out" of said arrangement would be free to leave.  If competing in the playoffs is REALLY important to one or two of those schools, then THEY certainly might be able to wrangle their way into a partnership with one of the other East conferences.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2012, 12:35:16 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 11:40:35 AM
I say we give that other spot to Trinity (Conn).

JUST KIDDING!

Yanks,  I agree, you did say that.  But if you look back for the last two years, anytime I've even mentioned Salve, there has been a number of posters that have who won't even take a second to give them a serious look.  That's ok, I'm an underdog rooter, always have been.  I enjoy seeing a team come from behind, or from down in the rankings, and see them win much more than watching the same 5-10 teams fighting for the national championship every year.  How many teams are there in D3?  And how many even stand a chance of moving on to the second round of the playoffs?

I question myself everytime I come back here to post anything about the subject.  Again, my son doesn't play here.  He's out west.  And if you read what I've posted in our forum, you won't find me yelling that his school should be playing the in the playoffs, even though they were 8-2.  I am a realist.  They had a great year, but aren't at the level of the playoff teams from the stronger conferences (yet...).

So what's the answer to the problems?  How do you make it right for everyone?  I have said before and will again, start a D4.  And then you will find more teams competing in the right levels.  I'm sure that leagues like the NEFC, ECFC, etc would be happier competing in that level.   I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet.  There is just too much difference in the levels of play which limits the competitiveness of the whole playoffs.

I hope everyone has a great time watching your teams in the playoffs.  And I agree with a previous poster, every team in every conference except the NESCAC had the chance to be in the tournament.  If you had won your conference, you'd be in.  LFC included.

Just my thoughts.

I fundamentally disagree with the statement in bold above.  If that were true, the ECFC would not have been formed by bottom feeders 3 years ago in an effort to gain a AQ playoff spot, and the MASCAC would not have been formed...which is really just a bunch of NEFC teams leaving the NEFC to guarantee themselves an AQ in a few years.

The NEFC/ECFC/MASCAC clearly are happy competing at "this" level...and are striving to get more teams AQ bids without ever really having to leave their little areas in/around New England, or earn entry against better competition.  This was evident last year when the WNEC coach stated he was pretty much stunned that WNEC didn't get a "higher seed" in the tournament, or a home game for the first round of the tournament...which really means that he thought that his team was one of the best 16 teams in the field.  My guess was he was stunned a little bit more when Delaware Valley took them behind the woodshed to the tune of a 62-24 beat down.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Pat, am I right about the D1 and D2 schools that don't offer scholorships?

And I agree with the poster that why not take the NESCAC model and compete local if they don't venture out.  I wish they would all do what Salve is doing and try.  It's why I liked Chesney.....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Pat, am I right about the D1 and D2 schools that don't offer scholorships?

And I agree with the poster that why not take the NESCAC model and compete local if they don't venture out.  I wish they would all do what Salve is doing and try.  It's why I liked Chesney.....

Actually you are both right and wrong. The Ivy League and other "non-scholarship" schools in D1 and D2 CHOOSE not to offer scholarships. But they compete in a division that sets its boundaries MOSTLY by how they allow scholarships. There are some othe parameters, for example I believe D1 FBS has an attendance requirement for its membership. The primary difference between D1, D2, and D3, however, is that D1 permits X numbers of scholarships per sport (D1 FCS allows a variation of X), D2 permits Y, and D3 permits 0. There is no requirement that you actually USE the scholarships you are allowed to participate in that Division.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?

No, i'm pretty sure you just scour the boards and plagiarize my stuff.  :-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 15, 2012, 01:01:23 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 15, 2012, 12:35:16 PM

I fundamentally disagree with the statement in bold above.  If that were true, the ECFC would not have been formed by bottom feeders 3 years ago in an effort to gain a AQ playoff spot, and the MASCAC would not have been formed...which is really just a bunch of NEFC teams leaving the NEFC to guarantee themselves an AQ in a few years.

The NEFC/ECFC/MASCAC clearly are happy competing at "this" level...and are striving to get more teams AQ bids without ever really having to leave their little areas in/around New England, or earn entry against better competition.

This. All of this. They have their cake, eat it too, and wonder why people are critical. They get to play on the national stage without having to prove themselves nationally. Look at a team like Huntington. They went 0-7 in 2003, playing teams like Wabash and Wittenberg. By 2006, they were playing Wesley and Trinity, and they even got on a plane and flew up to Ithaca. I remember talking to a friend on the team before that game, and he said they were not taking Huntington lightly because they would play anyone, anywhere, and did not care. (Of course, Ithaca won handily, because they were better, but still)

Yes, Huntington was an independent, but it's the attitude. Rather than do the ECFC model, which was gather up a bunch of terrible teams and say "We're a conference! Respect our teams!" or go fully insular and just play teams nearby, they went out and took on all comers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?

No, i'm pretty sure you just scour the boards and plagiarize my stuff.  :-)

I'll have to go take this line out of the predictions in Around the Nation, then. :)

Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 11, 2012, 06:06:45 PM
Hobart got boned.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 01:07:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?

No, i'm pretty sure you just scour the boards and plagiarize my stuff.  :-)

I'll have to go take this line out of the predictions in Around the Nation, then. :)

Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 11, 2012, 06:06:45 PM
Hobart got boned.

It's so true.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 15, 2012, 01:30:28 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 01:07:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?

No, i'm pretty sure you just scour the boards and plagiarize my stuff.  :-)

I'll have to go take this line out of the predictions in Around the Nation, then. :)

Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 11, 2012, 06:06:45 PM
Hobart got boned.

It's so true.

A LewDogg vs. Pat showdown....this is MUCH more interesting than the merits of creating D4, and NEFC isolationism...! ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 01:48:12 PM
I just was saying Hobart DID get boned.  It's so true. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 02:29:25 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 01:48:12 PM
I just was saying Hobart DID get boned.  It's so true.

Kind of interested in how Hobart got boned. They are the presumed 2 seed in the bracket. So in order to be boned, they either had to deserve to be a 1, or needed a "weaker" 7 seed to face, right?

All of the 1s are undefeated. So a secondary criteria deciding between undefeated teams is past playoff experience. Hobart lost in the first round last year, each of the other 1 seeds progressed at least one round.

That leaves the 2s. Of the 4 presumed 2s, Oshkosh and Widener are the other undefeated. Oshkosh faces 8-2 St. Scholastica, not a 500 mile opponent for Hobart. Widener faces Bridgewater State, 9-1. Widener does have some history in the NCAAs, but a lot of it is not recent. Presumably facing a 9-1 team should be harder than facing 8-2 W&L, especially considering the distance W&L is travelling (460 miles). It's easy to see why having Hobart face W&L should be seen as an advantage. That just leaves Wesley.

Obviously Wesley is a 9-1 team. The loss was to UMHB, by 7 points. On the basis of record, you could argue Hobart should face Mount Ida, 8-2, assuming Mount Ida is weaker than W&L. SOS would show Mount Ida at an SOS of 192, W&L at 47. So presumably the "boning" is here? While I know past playoff performance isn't supposed to be used when determining between two teams that aren't undefeated, it may have been hard to look past Hobarts' loss to Wesley last year, especially when considering Wesley's loss was to one of the number 1 seeds.

The only thing I'll point out as mitigating is who heads the brackets. We can argue about the order of the top 4 all day long, but I'm thinking that either Linfield or St Thomas is the "weakest" 1 seed, my thought is that it is St. Thomas. So from that perspective, Hobart has an easier road than some of the other 2s.

That last point is that Widener may not be the 2. I suppose it could be Johns Hopkins (9-1) facing W&J (8-2). But would you really rather be facing W&J as opposed to W&L? W&J's two losses were an incredibly close loss to SJF, who they played straight up if not better than the whole game except on the final scoreboard, and a blowout loss a couple days after their team captain was murdered. Not sure I'd want to trade W&L for W&J.

So really, the big complaint is that Hobart got W&L, coming from a league that is 0-7 in recent playoff attempts and 0-2 by wide margins themselves, or Mount Ida.

Hardly seems like a "boning". Maybe a small slight...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 02:43:08 PM
Well, overall, I think Hobart has the more middle of the order bracket which some may see as 'not getting boned'.  There isn't the Mt Union, Linfield, MHB 'beast' in their bracket.  So technically, they might have a better chance to getting to the last 4.  But they also have a better chance of losing in the first 2.

There are no 'easy' games at all.  Cortland got one.  Wesley got one.  Widener got one.  Of all of the 2 seeds, Hobart got a tougher first round draw.  Widener really made out like a bandit.  They get a 'bye' in the first round, and then they play a very beatable Rowan or Salisbury in Round 2.  I would have like to see Hobart with that draw.  Cortland really got a gift because they at least get to win a game.  But Wesley in Rd 2 will be a tough one.

Hobart SHOULD win at least 2 games, but I think any of these teams could knock them off.  I don't think Mt. Ida, Bridgewater, or Framingham has a chance to win.  W&L has a fighting chance. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2012, 02:45:33 PM
Let's put it this way, boned or not dlip would have preferred the Mount Ida matchup instead of  W&L but as long ad Bart wins dlip will be as happy as a fat pig in a big old pile of shiznit!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 15, 2012, 02:55:07 PM
One can certainly argue Hobart got shafted last year (albeit the 8 game schedule and RPI loss were equal culprits) but ultimately playing Wesley helped the program on a number of levels (and at least one of the Hobart coaches felt they should have beat Wesley but w/o a FG kicker they had to go for it 3x in on the 4th and goals) this season.

Also given Hobart's main weakness is the secondary, I'd almost be more nervous playing a QB like Drosendahl than I am an option team that passes for less than 70 YPG.  The Statesmen have shown they can stop the option (see holding SC to 155 rush yards) and the fact W&L (who is a 2 loss team btw) has to travel 460-70 miles the Friday before is a fairly advantageous seeding.  W&L also gives up a lot of yards on defense (almost 370 YPG), especially thru the air (around 210 YPG) which is advantage Hobart even if Olney starts.

To LD's point though, Widener, etc got a better early draws and I am not even 100% certain the Pride will make it out of Rd 2 (have a weird feeling the MAC is having a down year, but maybe I'll be proved wrong since both Rowan and SU don't seem as strong this season either?).

STU is elite for sure but they are not "UMU or UMHB good" (yet) based on what I've heard / read.  Can't complain too much this season in the bracketing.  If things fall right for Hobart they could have a great run.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 02:57:52 PM
Interesting. But I think this may be a case of how much you know about others opponents. I'm a W&L alum and I really don't see much hope here for the Generals. Or at least, I don't see much more hope for W&L versus Hobart than I see for the other 7 seeds.

But I'm not as familiar with the NEFC/ECFC teams as you are. Hobart MAY have the hardest 7 seed, as I really thought W&L was a 6 with a very long outside shot at a 5 (based on SOS), but I don't think they got "boned" in any serious sense.

I will admit that Hobart probably should have gotten Mount Ida and Wesley probably should have had the hardest 7 game just based on being the only 2 with a loss. Personally, I think the committee probaby felt sending 8-2 W&L 460 miles made for an easier opponent than 9-1 Bridgewater would have been.

I'm less interested in the next couple teams as it becomes a real toss-up whether Coe, Heidelberg, Elmhurst and Wittenberg are any stronger than the 3-6 teams in the other brackets. Some probably are, some probably aren't. Not enough data to make that sweeping a pronouncement.

But as far as the first round goes, it's not like the ODAC has had a team get out of the first round since Bridgewater College in 2005.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 15, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
JK -

I think the reasoning here is the east region fans believe W&L would easily beat most, if not all, NEFC/ECFC teams; especially since a team like Springfield (which runs a similar offense and ranks 2nd in the nation behind W&L in rushing) routinely beats teams from this conference (one exception being this year with Bridgewater State coming back to beat SC 21-17 early in the season when SC lost their starting QB).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 15, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
JK -

I think the reasoning here is the east region fans believe W&L would easily beat most, if not all NEFC/ECFC teams, especially since a team like Springfield (which runs a similar offense and ranks 2nd in the nation behind W&L in rushing) routinely beats teams from this conference (one exception being this year with Bridgewater coming back to beat SC 21-17 early in the season when SC lost their starting QB).

Although this may be true, there really isn't much to say that W&L won't be an easier opponent than the other teams mentioned. Sure the NEFC has sucked but so has the ODAC in the last 7 years. I think the argument is a little bit weak (not a full boning).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 03:11:03 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 15, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
JK -

I think the reasoning here is the east region fans believe W&L would easily beat most, if not all NEFC/ECFC teams, especially since a team like Springfield (which runs a similar offense and ranks 2nd in the nation behind W&L in rushing) routinely beats teams from this conference (one exception being this year with Bridgewater coming back to beat SC 21-17 early in the season when SC lost their starting QB).

Yeah. And that's what I pointed to with knowing your opponents' opponents better than the one coming up from the south. There just isn't a good way to prove that. As I said, it's not like the ODAC has done any better than anyone else in the playoffs. It's hard to do worse than 0-7...

It is what it is. W&L is a 7, going to an undefeated Hobart team that has handled the option well several times this year. Personally I think it's a very legitimate matchup for the 2 team. Hobart should be well favored and I think they are.

If the "boning" is because they would have been a greater favorite against Mount Ida... well, not so much a boning as a minor slight. As someone else previously pointed out.

Nice to have gotten some talk in about the game and I did appreciate all the answers to my inquiry.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 15, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
JK -

I think the reasoning here is the east region fans believe W&L would easily beat most, if not all NEFC/ECFC teams, especially since a team like Springfield (which runs a similar offense and ranks 2nd in the nation behind W&L in rushing) routinely beats teams from this conference (one exception being this year with Bridgewater coming back to beat SC 21-17 early in the season when SC lost their starting QB).

Although this may be true, there really isn't much to say that W&L won't be an easier opponent than the other teams mentioned. Sure the NEFC has sucked but so has the ODAC in the last 7 years. I think the argument is a little bit weak (not a full boning).

dang. PG just beat me to it!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:14:47 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 15, 2012, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:07:54 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 15, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
JK -

I think the reasoning here is the east region fans believe W&L would easily beat most, if not all NEFC/ECFC teams, especially since a team like Springfield (which runs a similar offense and ranks 2nd in the nation behind W&L in rushing) routinely beats teams from this conference (one exception being this year with Bridgewater coming back to beat SC 21-17 early in the season when SC lost their starting QB).

Although this may be true, there really isn't much to say that W&L won't be an easier opponent than the other teams mentioned. Sure the NEFC has sucked but so has the ODAC in the last 7 years. I think the argument is a little bit weak (not a full boning).

dang. PG just beat me to it!

You explained it more thoroughly than I did though, but I agree with you (obviously). I guess we'll see how much of a challenge Hobart receives.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:20:30 PM
I also have to say that I feel queasy with everyone calling the games versus NEFC and ECFC "byes" I am aware of their atrocious past performance but I think it's dangerous to count out these teams before the game even begins.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:20:30 PM
I also have to say that I feel queasy with everyone calling the games versus NEFC and ECFC "byes" I am aware of their atrocious past performance but I think it's dangerous to count out these teams before the game even begins.

Mail it in.  The only team that potentially blow themselves is Cortland.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
There is a (small) portion of my mind that wants one of the NEFC teams to win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2012, 03:42:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
There is a (small) portion of my mind that wants one of the NEFC teams to win.

I'd rather see the ECFC get their first playoff win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2012, 03:42:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
There is a (small) portion of my mind that wants one of the NEFC teams to win.

I'd rather see the ECFC get their first playoff win.

That sounds even better. Maybe I should root for that instead.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:58:38 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2012, 03:42:29 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
There is a (small) portion of my mind that wants one of the NEFC teams to win.

I'd rather see the ECFC get their first playoff win.

That sounds even better. Maybe I should root for that instead.

Plus if Mount Ida won they'd eliminate a southern team not an eastern team so that's an added bonus. Yes, I like that (wakes up from dream).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 15, 2012, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Pat, am I right about the D1 and D2 schools that don't offer scholorships?

And I agree with the poster that why not take the NESCAC model and compete local if they don't venture out.  I wish they would all do what Salve is doing and try.  It's why I liked Chesney.....

The Patriot League does now give football and basketball scholarships.  Some of the schools may not, but the league allows scholarships and has for a few years now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 15, 2012, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?

No, i'm pretty sure you just scour the boards and plagiarize my stuff.  :-)

Lew, I think President Obama' speech writers scour the board and plagiarize your stuff.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 15, 2012, 04:11:35 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 15, 2012, 04:09:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:14:44 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 15, 2012, 08:34:20 AM
'Framingham has played one non-NEFC team in 11 seasons, and that was against Norwich of the ECFC. It could be a shock to see how the rest of Division III plays football.'

How about some credit on the quote?  :-)

Sorry -- we were both working independently. I'm pretty in tune with the N/ECFC firewall from my previous takes on the subject, right?

No, i'm pretty sure you just scour the boards and plagiarize my stuff.  :-)

Lew, I think President Obama' speech writers scour the board and plagiarize your stuff.

Being a scholar of mathematics and science, I determined that it was a mathematical certainty that my literature would be used far and wide  and above and beyond the realm of d3football.com. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2012, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 15, 2012, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Pat, am I right about the D1 and D2 schools that don't offer scholorships?

And I agree with the poster that why not take the NESCAC model and compete local if they don't venture out.  I wish they would all do what Salve is doing and try.  It's why I liked Chesney.....

The Patriot League does now give football and basketball scholarships.  Some of the schools may not, but the league allows scholarships and has for a few years now.

There was a pretty extensive discussion of Division IV possibilities quite a while back and now I can't for the life of me find any of them. Now I'm too frustrated to look or search anymore.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 10:53:35 PM
It's science.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2012, 10:55:51 PM
Long discussion of Division III future. This link drops us in in November 2010.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3880.1860
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2012, 12:59:55 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 15, 2012, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: fulbakdad on November 15, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Pat, am I right about the D1 and D2 schools that don't offer scholorships?

And I agree with the poster that why not take the NESCAC model and compete local if they don't venture out.  I wish they would all do what Salve is doing and try.  It's why I liked Chesney.....

The Patriot League does now give football and basketball scholarships.  Some of the schools may not, but the league allows scholarships and has for a few years now.
Having called games in the Patriot League for football up until this season, they have not allowed scholarships in football until now. In 2010, Fordham decided they would start giving scholarships in football which ended up meaning they could not participate for a conference title and thus games against them didn't count in the conference standings. It was long thought that Fordham might have to leave the conference, but in February the conference decided to start allowing scholarships in football starting next season. However, Georgetown has decided not to give scholarships out.

Basketball on the other hand did start allowing scholarships in 2006.

Also, remember that scholarships also can be split up amongst student-athletes in Division I and II except in football and maybe basketball (help?). I also don't know a D2 or D1 school that doesn't offer scholarships for the most part except the Ivy's and the occasional school with an occasional sport (i.e. Georgetown). Though... I could be wrong ;).

And to further Pat's point... hockey, soccer, lacrosse, there are a number of sports where two programs at a D3 school are competing at the D1 level. Usually it is the same sport (i.e. men's and women's), but Hartwick for example decided to go with women's water polo to complement their men's program. While the D3's were grandfathered into the ban of multiple-divisions... they were also forced to add a women's or men's sport to the D1 program that they had (i.e. Johns Hopkins lacrosse had to bring their women's team up to D1).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
I am pretty sure you can split a D-II scholarship in any sport. But it's not my area of expertise.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2012, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
I am pretty sure you can split a D-II scholarship in any sport. But it's not my area of expertise.

I should have said you an split the scholarships in D1 and D2 in all sports except D1 football and maybe basketball. Yes, you can split the scholarships in D2 since they have about half as many scholarships in each sport compared to D1.

Basically, student-athletes who don't play football or basketball in D1 or D2 don't necessarily get full-rides. In fact, except for the rare athlete, they don't... which is why some D3 students turn down the scholarship offers because their academics provide them better scholarship opportunities at a D3 school - where they can still play sports at maybe the same level of competition.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
My attempt to predict the games involving Eastern Teams this week -- I don't think any of them will be that interesting to be honest:

Mount Ida 14
Wesley 52

Framingham State 24
Cortland State 56

Washington and Lee 17
Hobart 38

Rowan 21
Salisbury 42

Bridgewater State 14
Widener 63




Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 16, 2012, 02:38:12 PM
PG
those picks look pretty spot on to me with the exception of Framingham scoring 24 on C State.
I see that one getting as ugly as the Wesley game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 16, 2012, 02:51:27 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
My attempt to predict the games involving Eastern Teams this week -- I don't think any of them will be that interesting to be honest:

Mount Ida 14
Wesley 52

Framingham State 24
Cortland State 56

Washington and Lee 17
Hobart 38

Rowan 21
Salisbury 42

Bridgewater State 14
Widener 63

No 90-0 Widener score? ;D

Even though I hate that team ::), I an calling for the Rowan Upset 28-21
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 16, 2012, 02:52:53 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
My attempt to predict the games involving Eastern Teams this week -- I don't think any of them will be that interesting to be honest:

Mount Ida 14
Wesley 52

Framingham State 24
Cortland State 56

Washington and Lee 17
Hobart 38

Rowan 21
Salisbury 42

Bridgewater State 14
Widener 63

Sadly I think your W&L pick looks about right to me. On the upside, if it does turn out that way, it will be the closest post-season game W&L has played...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 16, 2012, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
My attempt to predict the games involving Eastern Teams this week -- I don't think any of them will be that interesting to be honest:

Mount Ida 14
Wesley 52

Framingham State 24
Cortland State 56

Washington and Lee 17
Hobart 38

Rowan 21
Salisbury 42

Bridgewater State 14
Widener 63

Unless Widener and Cortland are better than Wesley, there is no way those games are bigger blowouts than Mt Ida. Mt Ida would get beat by 21 against FSU and BSU.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2012, 03:17:14 PM
Welcome to the board. You might be right about Mount Ida -- it will be interesting to see. But in these games, the winning team could practically name its final score. The biggest question is whether there might be a fluke score thrown in at the end against the second team defense, or on a kickoff return or a backup running back fumbling the ball. No offense to the 7 and 8 seeds but the top six or seven teams are that good for a reason.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2012, 03:17:50 PM
Dlip thinks the Bart W&L game will fall in that range, good call pg04. Listen Bart just doesn't seem to be a blow your doors off type team to dlip. At times this season dlip has been critical of the Pumpkinheads, maybe rightfully so maybe not, but now reflecting on the season no matter how they play they win. Granted the competition will increase but dlip thinks Bart may be able to meet that challenge andcontinue doing what they have been doing all year...winning. Bart may make quite a run here boys.

Also dlip wants to make it clear that even though he is not a supporter of the NEFC getting an at large bid and is not rooting for any of the NEFC/ECFC teams this weekend he is not against the players themselves and is very happy for all those kids. He hopes they have a great experience and if a W comes out of it (it probably won't) good for the players. It is just the scheduling approach used by 99% of the NEFC and ECFC teams that bothers dlip because they are getting rewarded for not stepping up the way they should have to in order to be considered for an at large and even able to get an auto bid. It is good however to see a couple, one or two at least starting to schedule out.

Let's get it straight here it is not a hatred or dislike of the conference for any other reasons than the aforementiined ones. It's not personal against players, we love D3 because we love the FB all D3 kids play period. Salve had many cheerleaders this year, why? Scheduling and defeating Union and Montclair. If all the other schools did this no one would take issue with them. Yet dlip refuses to annoint Bridgewater State at Salves level with a close win over    springfield team that would,pound them if they played again today. It takes consistency in scheduling and results to earn respect.

Until teams in this league as a whole do these things they (not the players) are going to get hammered for taking spots in the post season from more deserving teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 16, 2012, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
My attempt to predict the games involving Eastern Teams this week -- I don't think any of them will be that interesting to be honest:

Mount Ida 14
Wesley 52

Framingham State 24
Cortland State 56

Washington and Lee 17
Hobart 38

Rowan 21
Salisbury 42

Bridgewater State 14
Widener 63

Unless Widener and Cortland are better than Wesley, there is no way those games are bigger blowouts than Mt Ida. Mt Ida would get beat by 21 against FSU and BSU.

Cortland's isn't a bigger blowout. Also, I am really not certain the validity of your last sentence. And, are you really complaining about 30 vs. 40 point blowouts?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2012, 03:23:12 PM
Also this season shows that Widener doesn't necessarily cool the jets earlier than other teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2012, 12:21:36 PM
TD Hobart 7-7
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2012, 12:22:01 PM
Mt. Ida just scored.  7-7  YOWZA!


And Wesley returns the kickoff.  14-7
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2012, 12:31:11 PM
21-7 Wesley - Pour it on.

Framingham St 3 Cortland 0

Cortland needs to wake up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 17, 2012, 12:35:56 PM
TD Cortland 7-3  53 yard reception

And Hobart scores again 14-7.

Mt Union being Mt Union - 35-7 early 2Q
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2012, 12:49:18 PM
Bart/W&L 14-14. Bart can't stop their option thus far...at all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:01:12 PM
The NEFC teams are showing that they shouldn't have been so casually dismissed. At half, 7-7 Widener and Bridgewater State, 7-6 Cortland over Framingham late in the 2nd quarter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2012, 01:07:41 PM
Can't argue with performance.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:08:57 PM
I told everyone not to use the word "bye" to describe them  ;). Let's see if they come to play in the 2nd.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 17, 2012, 01:12:27 PM
The Generals have an excellent running game, but defense cannot stop the Hobart offense. Turnovers will determine the winner. Hobart 21-14 lead at half
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 17, 2012, 01:13:02 PM
Agreed pg04. No idea if they will keep it up in the second half but the NEFC teams are certainly putting a heck of a fight up thus far.  Mt Ida is giving up a ton of points but it also appears that they're giving it the old college try against Wesley, too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 17, 2012, 01:13:02 PM
Agreed pg04. No idea if they will keep it up in the second half but the NEFC teams are certainly putting a heck of a fight up thus far.  Mt Ida is giving up a ton of points but it also appears that they're giving it the old college try against Wesley, too.

Yeah it looks like Mt. Ida will indeed be the most blown out team as one person here predicted, but they are still pulling out all the stops. As for the NEFC teams, either their opponents seemed to think it would be easier or the NEFC teams actually came to play, at least defensively.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:27:45 PM
Widener didn't want that to last long, up 14-7 after the first drive of the half.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:42:50 PM
Widener now up 21-7 and driving again. Looks like that game may become out of hand. However, Framingham is driving on Cortland, down 10-6.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:50:53 PM
Scores Currently:

Framingham 6
Cortland 17

Bridgewater 7
Widener 21

W&L 14
Hobart 24

Mount Ida 14
Wesley 41

Rowan 9
Salisbury 10

All in the 3rd quarter.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:56:06 PM
Blocked punt for TD, Widener up 28-7.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 01:59:17 PM
Hobart TD, now up 31-14 early in the 4th.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:01:17 PM
Salisbury and Rowan lower scoring than I anticipated but probably the game to pay attention to, 10-9 Salisbury in the 3rd.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:03:15 PM
Framingham just scored, though, now down 17-13.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
So I know Mt. Ida's giving it the "Old College Try" as someone put it...but it's kind of sad when a team "pulling out all the stops" finds itself down 56-14 midway through the 3rd quarter

Through 2 and 2/3 NCAA playoff games

Opponents: 179
ECFC teams: 24
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:24:19 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
So I know Mt. Ida's giving it the "Old College Try" as someone put it...but it's kind of sad when a team "pulling out all the stops" finds itself down 56-14 midway through the 3rd quarter

Through 2 and 2/3 NCAA playoff games

Opponents: 179
ECFC teams: 24

Well, Mr. Smug, when we posted that it was something like 27-14.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 17, 2012, 02:30:02 PM
Wow...Framingham marches right down the field...almost exclusively running the ball and scores a TD with about 1:40 to go...then misses the PAT.

20-19 Cortland with 1:38 to go in the 4th...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 17, 2012, 02:31:26 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 17, 2012, 02:30:02 PM
Wow...Framingham marches right down the field...almost exclusively running the ball and scores a TD with about 1:40 to go...then misses the PAT.

20-19 Cortland with 1:38 to go in the 4th...

CORRECTION...3:38 to go...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:32:34 PM
Widener scores on an interception on the last play of the game to win 44-14 over Bridgewater State.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2012, 02:36:26 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:24:19 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 17, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
So I know Mt. Ida's giving it the "Old College Try" as someone put it...but it's kind of sad when a team "pulling out all the stops" finds itself down 56-14 midway through the 3rd quarter

Through 2 and 2/3 NCAA playoff games

Opponents: 179
ECFC teams: 24

Well, Mr. Smug, when we posted that it was something like 27-14.

I understand that. But still, when allowing 27 points in less than a half is considered a positive, it's telling. Did anyone honestly think Mt. Ida was going to remain in the game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:38:35 PM
Did anyone honestly think that the NEFC teams would be down a total of 4 points at the half?

Salisbury will win 17-9 over Rowan.

Framingham still fighting down 20-19, it's 4th and 1 Cortland. Not sure what they'll do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:39:28 PM
Nevermind, Cortland first down, will win the game most likely 20-19. What a squeaker.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 17, 2012, 02:42:04 PM
Better fight than I thought it would be against Cortland from Framingham...but the NEFC now stands at 2-16 all-time in the NCAA...

Bridgewater should have never got that Pool C bid...and showed it today, losing by 30...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:51:17 PM
Cortland has about .01% chance of beating Wesley next week, I think. I will be less Harsh on Bridgewater. I know the game ended up being a 30 point rout (the last touchdown as time expired on a 95 yard INT return), and I know one half means nothing (except to those people who always seem to say "we stayed in the game for a half with Mount Union or St. John's, etc."), but the fact that it was tied at 7 at halftime gives them slightly more credit in my mind.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 17, 2012, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:51:17 PM
Cortland has about .01% chance of beating Wesley next week, I think. I will be less Harsh on Bridgewater. I know the game ended up being a 30 point rout (the last touchdown as time expired on a 95 yard INT return), and I know one half means nothing (except to those people who always seem to say "we stayed in the game for a half with Mount Union or St. John's, etc."), but the fact that it was tied at 7 at halftime gives them slightly more credit in my mind.

Your points are probably somewhat valid...but all I heard was "blah, blah, blah, 2-16 all-time in the NCAA playoffs...blah, blah, blah...they get another bid in the next two years when the MASCAC becomes official..."

YEAH for mediocrity!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:59:28 PM
After somewhat doubting it yesterday, I will now say that Framingham would probably win by at least 21 over Mt. Ida as one poster stated. The ECFC is just horrendous. I tried to give them a chance, be positive, and the like, but it just ain't happening.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 17, 2012, 03:21:41 PM
Hobart, winning 38-20, had their hands full with the Generals offense, but made adjustments in the second half to shut down option attack. Although W&L had some talent on offense,  the defense was not much of a test for Hobart . Time to prepare for Wittenberg, who looked pretty scary against Heidelberg in a great second half of offense. It should be a great game. Statesmen go West......
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 17, 2012, 04:21:04 PM
 Unless Hanna screwed up the filing (again - which would result in yet again the fire HAnna campaign), Hobart is definitely hosting next week.  They're the two seed.  Even Heidelberg should've traveled here.

W&L came to play but I was proud of our D, making the adjustments at half and holding W&L's O to roughly 200 less yards rushing than they're season average.  How about Gamuarino, who played great.  Hobart cleaned up on conference awards but I reaaly thought he should've been ROY (which would've been the third straight defensive RoY for HObart had it happened).  Too bad Webb couldn't get that extra yard for 100, but he was ran hard all day.  Could've done it all day, only limited by a lack of carries.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2012, 04:29:56 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:38:35 PM
Did anyone honestly think that the NEFC teams would be down a total of 4 points at the half?

Salisbury will win 17-9 over Rowan.

Framingham still fighting down 20-19, it's 4th and 1 Cortland. Not sure what they'll do.

This is why games are 60 minutes. Heidelberg surely would have liked to play just 30 also.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 17, 2012, 08:38:01 PM
Congrats to the Red Dragons. I was shocked at how close it was at the end.  I hope that poor performance  was a hangover from last weeks Jug game.....if not, next week may  become real ugly.  Good luck to all the other teams from the region left in the hunt.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:16:37 PM
I'm so sick of hearing everyone yap about how 'the NEFC teams weren't bad afterall!' blah blah blah.  Yay, one of the teams played a close game in the playoffs.  They still lost.  They shouldn't even have gotten such a liberal draw, but for some reason a close loss against a Cortland team that no one is quite sold on makes all of this worthy.  Makes me sick.

The NEFC got more teams into the playoffs than the LL, E8, MAC and the same as the NJAC.  How do you think St. John Fisher or Alfred, or even Union or RPI for crying out loud, would fare if they played Framingham and Bridgewater's schedule this year?  They would have gone roughly 9-1 and been playoff worthy.  They would have played a tough game in the playoffs and lost. 

We all have admitted that the NEFC is getting better as a whole, but it's not deserving of stealing a Pool C bid.  Once again, the NCAA was wrong and should stick to the AQ until proven otherwise.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
My biggest problem with this whole discussion was the "foregone conclusion" that the NEFC teams were going to lose. Obviously, one of them (as discussed below) made a game of it. But even Bridgewater forced Widener into a situation they probably weren't planning on being tied at the half. Given the discussion on here, it should have been put away before halftime.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:53:36 PM
I mean, I can't believe I'm defending the NEFC even a little bit, but there seems to be an excessive amount of whining about it, given that we all know the way the system is set up. What good is there to come on here and brag that yes everything went as expected? Finally, if Bridgewater State hadn't gotten in, then it would have been replaced a team not from the East Region anyway. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
My biggest problem with this whole discussion was the "foregone conclusion" that the NEFC teams were going to lose. Obviously, one of them (as discussed below) made a game of it. But even Bridgewater forced Widener into a situation they probably weren't planning on being tied at the half. Given the discussion on here, it should have been put away before halftime.

Well, there weren't any upsets in that regard.  Paying a little too attention to insignificant details.  Here is the # I saw:

Opponents - 137
NEFC/ECFC - 47
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:53:36 PM
I mean, I can't believe I'm defending the NEFC even a little bit, but there seems to be an excessive amount of whining about it, given that we all know the way the system is set up. What good is there to come on here and brag that yes everything went as expected? Finally, if Bridgewater State hadn't gotten in, then it would have been replaced a team not from the East Region anyway.

You're right.  But it would be a more deserving team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
My biggest problem with this whole discussion was the "foregone conclusion" that the NEFC teams were going to lose. Obviously, one of them (as discussed below) made a game of it. But even Bridgewater forced Widener into a situation they probably weren't planning on being tied at the half. Given the discussion on here, it should have been put away before halftime.

Well, there weren't any upsets in that regard.  Paying a little too attention to insignificant details.  Here is the # I saw:

Opponents - 137
NEFC/ECFC - 47

Well, even though the 30 point loss by BSU still makes it bad, The ECFC number should be taken out. That was a Pool A and they didn't get a Pool C, which is the reasoning for this discussion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
My biggest problem with this whole discussion was the "foregone conclusion" that the NEFC teams were going to lose. Obviously, one of them (as discussed below) made a game of it. But even Bridgewater forced Widener into a situation they probably weren't planning on being tied at the half. Given the discussion on here, it should have been put away before halftime.

Well, there weren't any upsets in that regard.  Paying a little too attention to insignificant details.  Here is the # I saw:

Opponents - 137
NEFC/ECFC - 47

Well, even though the 30 point loss by BSU still makes it bad, The ECFC number should be taken out. That was a Pool A and they didn't get a Pool C, which is the reasoning for this discussion.

Right, but if we continue down this path, an ECFC runner up will be getting in soon too.  Castleton St. was 2 fluffy OOC games away from getting in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 03:02:28 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 18, 2012, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
My biggest problem with this whole discussion was the "foregone conclusion" that the NEFC teams were going to lose. Obviously, one of them (as discussed below) made a game of it. But even Bridgewater forced Widener into a situation they probably weren't planning on being tied at the half. Given the discussion on here, it should have been put away before halftime.

Well, there weren't any upsets in that regard.  Paying a little too attention to insignificant details.  Here is the # I saw:

Opponents - 137
NEFC/ECFC - 47

Well, even though the 30 point loss by BSU still makes it bad, The ECFC number should be taken out. That was a Pool A and they didn't get a Pool C, which is the reasoning for this discussion.

Right, but if we continue down this path, an ECFC runner up will be getting in soon too.  Castleton St. was 2 fluffy OOC games away from getting in.

I honestly don't know when or if the ECFC will even get up to NEFC strength, which is saying something. Their game against Fisher was horrendous, and with Mount Ida being completely "homogenized" by Wesley, I'm not sure if they'll ever win an NCAA game because they'll always play one of the best teams in the country.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2012, 08:37:47 PM
I don't have problems with forgone conclusions in the playoffs. If they can happen because teams are good (Mount) why can't they occur because teams/conferences are bad? Is the NEFC there? Tough for me to say, considering the second best IC team in the last 15 years lost to one of them, at home no less. But I've got forgone conclusions about the ECFC, so I say, do what you gotta do.

But if PG thinks the NEFC is moving away from that description, hey, good for him for standing his ground. Heck, I think Josh Felicetti was better than Jason Boltus. We've all taken stances against the grain before. Do your thing PG
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 18, 2012, 09:59:54 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 17, 2012, 02:59:28 PM
After somewhat doubting it yesterday, I will now say that Framingham would probably win by at least 21 over Mt. Ida as one poster stated. The ECFC is just horrendous. I tried to give them a chance, be positive, and the like, but it just ain't happening.

I made that comment having seen both teams play. The NEFC is absolutely a level below the E8 and NJAC, but it is also a solid level above the ECFC.

As for the pool C bid, do I think Bridgewater deserved it, no, but the NCAA had merit. They were 9-1 with their only loss to NEFC champ Framingham, and they beat Springfield at Springfield. (The same Springfield who finished 8-3 with a 31-8 win over Alfred). Also, the reason the NEFC sometimes gets a Pool C bid over the E8 and LL is (I think) because the NCAA looks at as the #2 team out of 16 teams vs the #2 team out of 8.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 18, 2012, 10:46:26 PM
Dlip agrees with many of the things said here. Dlip knows this is stupid to say and it means nothing but now having two little ones under three simultaneously going postal dlip will join them. If Springfield and BS played again today, the Pride would run all over them. Springfield is a completely different team today than in September, completely different. Of course this is not BS's fault and they won when they had too, but dlip is just sayin...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 18, 2012, 10:50:10 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2012, 08:37:47 PM
I don't have problems with forgone conclusions in the playoffs. If they can happen because teams are good (Mount) why can't they occur because teams/conferences are bad? Is the NEFC there? Tough for me to say, considering the second best IC team in the last 15 years lost to one of them, at home no less. But I've got forgone conclusions about the ECFC, so I say, do what you gotta do.

But if PG thinks the NEFC is moving away from that description, hey, good for him for standing his ground. Heck, I think Josh Felicetti was better than Jason Boltus. We've all taken stances against the grain before. Do your thing PG

Oh, thank you wise one for letting me disagree  ;). At least one person didn't like my viewpoints :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 19, 2012, 08:56:59 AM
To add some color here from the WU Bridgwater game...

Bridgewater wasn't horrible, but were clearly overmatched...WU stopped themselves 3 times in the first half with turnover and untimely penalties (which they have been doing all year...)   Bridgewater also blocked a FG (a weakpoint for WU)..

The 2nd half was all WU...as Bridgewater showed little...

My observations from the game...
1st...I know it's a long, long drive,  but I think there were only about 100 fans there fom BW...given the gift that they were given, I would have thought they would have come to support their team a bit better...
2nd...I saw the 2 best catches I have seen this year an about a 3 minute span...1 by WU, and a 2nd by a BW receiver...both on tipped balls...great concentration by both receivers...The BW receiver laid out and pulled the tipped pass in, but it was called back by a penalty...the WU catch was a first down on a 3rd and 20 something...
3rd...without complaining too much...WU killed themselves with untimely penalties...some of them discipline related....
4th BW was very one dimensional...stop the run, and you seriously cripple their offense
5th   The free safety from BW was a stud, and almost singlehandedly kept them in the game...he seemed to be everywhere...great player..
Lastly...odd circumstance at the end of the game, which I'll seek the board's opinion on...
Late in the game, WU held the ball, and was running the clock out.   They ran the ball and scored.   BW got the ball back down 38-14 and tried to drive...
QB rolls out of the pocket, and gets sacked at around the BU 40 with 6.9 seconds left...
BW calls a timeout (is that a violation given the game is essentially over, or is that ok?).  Anyway on the last play, BW heaves it down to the 2 yd line, where it is picked off, and ran 98 yds for a TD...(How do you tell a kid to neel on a pick...)?
Anyway...like to see some thoughts on the right thing to do in both cases...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 19, 2012, 09:07:56 AM
The right thing was for Bridgewater to swallow their 'pride' and run the clock out.  But, if they choose to call a timeout and heave it down the field for a 47 point TD attempt, there should be no issue with Widener returning it, especially in fear of that 47 point TD.  It's the playoffs, I don't have any issues with Widener returning the pick. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 09:27:04 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 19, 2012, 09:07:56 AM
The right thing was for Bridgewater to swallow their 'pride' and run the clock out.  But, if they choose to call a timeout and heave it down the field for a 47 point TD attempt, there should be no issue with Widener returning it, especially in fear of that 47 point TD.  It's the playoffs, I don't have any issues with Widener returning the pick.

Agreed...this is what I was talking about earlier...when all of a sudden a garbage TD makes the score closer than the game actually was.

Let's say Bridgewater does score on the last second Hail Mary...37-21 makes it sound somewhat like a game...when the reality is 44-14 is probably a better indication.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 10:54:22 AM
I guess I want to chime in on the whole "weak conference" chat.
Much of my opinion has been said by my fellow posters, but one thing rang in my head after Saturday.
Gene and Peter were saying that Castleton was a young program (4 years) and should be commended for making the playoffs in such a short time...They continued and said that it took longer for Fisher to achieve the same feat and this was an accomplishment (for CS)that they could put in their cap....I think that they were playing nice nice because they were rebroadcasted to Vermont, because look....The talent level of the E8 and the ECFC is just apples and oranges.  The wins for the ECFC are inflated.  The proof is in the pudding folks....ECFC and NEFC are inferior conferences and produce lesser quality champions.
It just sickens me that they not only stole a pool c, but have an AQ.
We cant be the only people that see this right?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 11:21:54 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 10:54:22 AM
I guess I want to chime in on the whole "weak conference" chat.
Much of my opinion has been said by my fellow posters, but one thing rang in my head after Saturday.
Gene and Peter were saying that Castleton was a young program (4 years) and should be commended for making the playoffs in such a short time...They continued and said that it took longer for Fisher to achieve the same feat and this was an accomplishment (for CS)that they could put in their cap....I think that they were playing nice nice because they were rebroadcasted to Vermont, because look....The talent level of the E8 and the ECFC is just apples and oranges.  The wins for the ECFC are inflated.  The proof is in the pudding folks....ECFC and NEFC are inferior conferences and produce lesser quality champions.
It just sickens me that they not only stole a pool c, but have an AQ.
We cant be the only people that see this right?

Take a look at what LD just wrote in the NEFC board...dude is 100% accurate...and it sickens me as well...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 11:24:10 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 10:54:22 AM
I guess I want to chime in on the whole "weak conference" chat.
Much of my opinion has been said by my fellow posters, but one thing rang in my head after Saturday.
Gene and Peter were saying that Castleton was a young program (4 years) and should be commended for making the playoffs in such a short time...They continued and said that it took longer for Fisher to achieve the same feat and this was an accomplishment (for CS)that they could put in their cap....I think that they were playing nice nice because they were rebroadcasted to Vermont, because look....The talent level of the E8 and the ECFC is just apples and oranges.  The wins for the ECFC are inflated.  The proof is in the pudding folks....ECFC and NEFC are inferior conferences and produce lesser quality champions.
It just sickens me that they not only stole a pool c, but have an AQ.
We cant be the only people that see this right?

Re-posting this from the NEFC board because it seems germane here as well.

"Dear Lord, the NEFC gets a Pool C bid and now everyone's worried the D3 world is going to hell in a handbasket. 

Just last year an 8-2 St. John Fisher got in over a few 9-1 teams with weaker SOS and we threw our hands up in a collective hallelujah.  There's no reason to believe that this one bid for an NEFC team means that the 9-1 NEFC/MASCAC runnerup is a guaranteed entry in the future.  The last time an NEFC team got a Pool C bid before this was five years ago (and that particular team WON its first round playoff game).

Step down off the ledge, guys, life is really worth it."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 11:27:56 AM
Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 11:27:56 AM
Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 12:59:07 PM
well said yanks
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 11:27:56 AM
Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

Did you guys get a chance to read Frank's long breakdown (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7808.msg1465449#msg1465449) on the East Regional Rankings over on the Pool C board?  It seems the reason 4 NEFC teams made it was due to the dearth of 2-loss teams.  Lycoming likely was slotted in the middle of those 4 teams and had Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Fisher or Springfield finished with one less loss they would probably have made the rankings supplanting Endicott or Salve.  We all know that the middle of the E8, LL, MAC, and NJAC are stronger than the NEFC, but the extra losses is what produced such an ugly regional ranking.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 19, 2012, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 11:27:56 AM
Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

Did you guys get a chance to read Frank's long breakdown (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7808.msg1465449#msg1465449) on the East Regional Rankings over on the Pool C board?  It seems the reason 4 NEFC teams made it was due to the dearth of 2-loss teams.  Lycoming likely was slotted in the middle of those 4 teams and had Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Fisher or Springfield finished with one less loss they would probably have made the rankings supplanting Endicott or Salve.  We all know that the middle of the E8, LL, MAC, and NJAC are stronger than the NEFC, but the extra losses is what produced such an ugly regional ranking.

To add to that, in the interview, the committee chair, mentioned how the NCAA changed the rules of the selection.  In the past, there was open discussion on all of the teams, when needed.   Now that seems to have gone away.  The process is secluded, and the picks are made independently.  I think the intent was to eliminate the effect of lobbying, but now we're getting back to the point where there is little to no sanity checks against these picks...to an extent the lobbying was ofset by other committee members who could bring local knowledge to the table...now that knowledge is being wasted in favor of SOS and SOOS numbers that can be misleading...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 19, 2012, 11:27:56 AM
Ex Tartan,
I think the point is that last year it seemed like the selection comm. finally "got it"
Now it seems like a huge step backwards.

When 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the NCAA East Region poll the week before the final game of the season...it clearly showed me that someone isn't getting it...

Did you guys get a chance to read Frank's long breakdown (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7808.msg1465449#msg1465449) on the East Regional Rankings over on the Pool C board?  It seems the reason 4 NEFC teams made it was due to the dearth of 2-loss teams.  Lycoming likely was slotted in the middle of those 4 teams and had Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Fisher or Springfield finished with one less loss they would probably have made the rankings supplanting Endicott or Salve.  We all know that the middle of the E8, LL, MAC, and NJAC are stronger than the NEFC, but the extra losses is what produced such an ugly regional ranking.

I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 03:00:29 PM
I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

Oh, come on, get off your high horse.  Your vitriol is really starting to blind you to on-field results, isn't it?  The E8, LL, and NJAC are collectively better than the NEFC and the teams at the bottom of those three conferences would KILL the teams at the bottom of the NEFC.  That doesn't mean their sixth-best team would run the table in the NEFC.
 
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 03:00:29 PM
I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

Oh, come on, get off your high horse.  Your vitriol is really starting to blind you to on-field results, isn't it?  The E8, LL, and NJAC are collectively better than the NEFC and the teams at the bottom of those three conferences would KILL the teams at the bottom of the NEFC.  That doesn't mean their sixth-best team would run the table in the NEFC.
 
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

You can say whatever you want...and anyone that knows me at all knows I am absolutely the farthest thing from a Utica fan...but you would be crazy to think that Utica wouldn't be at worst 9-1 with an NEFC schedule, and would probably run the table.  Remember when everyone was high on Salve (myself included) because they beat Union by 3 points with an 11 point rally in the 4th quarter?  Utica destroyed Union to the tune of 45-17.  Though I guess I am "blinded" by on field results. 

So....yeah...I think Utica if they played in the NEFC would absolutely be the cream of the crop...and immediately.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 04:11:57 PM
People are also lumping ECFC and NEFC together and after this week I don't think it's a fair "lumping." I think  ETP (ExTartanPlayer, as I'll refer to him going forward) makes some valid arguments and Frank's long post last week on the Pool C board appeased me enough to not be as bent out of shape about this as some here are.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:14:46 PM
My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 19, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 03:51:42 PM
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

Minor correction - SC finished 3rd in the LL, not the E8.  Still, I think the top NEFC teams have shown that with more FT coaches, better funding, etc that they are slowly catching up to the rest of the East Region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 04:22:57 PM
Also, I think if we did what many people here would like to be done to "rectify" the Pool C situation, East Region teams would hardly ever be chosen for an At large. In general, the East is seen weaker and if such subjectivity is involved then it could be a problem for the east.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 04:29:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:14:46 PM
My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

Also, that is because it was a 16 team league. It was really 2 MASCAC teams ranked (Framingham and Bridgewater) and 2 NEFC (Endicott and Salve).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 19, 2012, 04:50:14 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 04:29:59 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:14:46 PM
My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

Also, that is because it was a 16 team league. It was really 2 MASCAC teams ranked (Framingham and Bridgewater) and 2 NEFC (Endicott and Salve).

This is really an artificial distinction considering they were playing for one automatic bid in 2012.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 19, 2012, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 04:22:57 PM
Also, I think if we did what many people here would like to be done to "rectify" the Pool C situation, East Region teams would hardly ever be chosen for an At large. In general, the East is seen weaker and if such subjectivity is involved then it could be a problem for the east.

Well putting an NEFC team through Pool C won't help the feelings of the East's strength.  That is for sure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:14:46 PM
My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

It is absurd that 4 NEFC teams were in the East Region Top 10 and yes, Utica would almost definitely run the table in the NEFC. Listen dlip has no hate towards to NEFC and is happy for the players within the league that get exposed to the NCAA tourney. It's the way the system is set up that is disturbing. dlip doesn't care if horsecock University get's a bid from the Atlantic Ocean Starfish Conference, as long as they deserve it and have defeated enough "quality" opponents that stack up against other in region teams. This however is not the case in the NEFC like it or not. Just being a realist here not a hater.

QuoteSpringfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 05:23:41 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 03:00:29 PM
I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

Oh, come on, get off your high horse.  Your vitriol is really starting to blind you to on-field results, isn't it?  The E8, LL, and NJAC are collectively better than the NEFC and the teams at the bottom of those three conferences would KILL the teams at the bottom of the NEFC.  That doesn't mean their sixth-best team would run the table in the NEFC.
 
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

You can say whatever you want...and anyone that knows me at all knows I am absolutely the farthest thing from a Utica fan...but you would be crazy to think that Utica wouldn't be at worst 9-1 with an NEFC schedule, and would probably run the table.  Remember when everyone was high on Salve (myself included) because they beat Union by 3 points with an 11 point rally in the 4th quarter?  Utica destroyed Union to the tune of 45-17.  Though I guess I am "blinded" by on field results. 

So....yeah...I think Utica if they played in the NEFC would absolutely be the cream of the crop...and immediately.

I know that Utica and other teams would go 8-2 or 9-1 in the NEFC, and I said as much in my first post, but assuming that they'd beat everyone is going against on-field results from this year where NEFC teams beat teams from the top half of other Eastern conferences (and I'll acknowledge my flub of referring to Springfield as an E8 team when they're now LL, that's my negligence).

Basically, you're selectively choosing only results that support your argument while pretending that the other ones don't count.  It's the equivalent of sticking your thumbs in your ears and singing "la-la-la" until your mom gives you what you want.  What if I said this:

Framingham State beat Salve by 12, and since Salve beat LL runner-up Union, I'll go ahead and assume Framingham would run the table in the Liberty League.

You'd say that I'm an idiot, right?  Of course, it's basically what you're doing when you assume that Utica would beat everyone in the NEFC because they beat Union by more than Salve (again: not this year's NEFC champion) did.

Let's spin the wheel again:

Utica beat Union by 28, while Salve only beat them by 3, so therefore Utica would kill everyone in the NEFC!  Huzzah for the Empire 8!  Problem solved!

But wait...Ithaca also beat Union by 3 (at home, no less, while Salve did it on the road), and Ithaca then beat Utica 40-22.  Um.  So maybe it's not a guarantee that "teams who only beat Union by 3" are a lock to lose to Utica.

Or maybe you like this one:

Bridgewater State beat Springfield on the road by 4, and Springfield beat second-place Empire 8 team Alfred by 23, so therefore Bridgewater State would beat everyone in the Empire 8!  Huzzah for the NEFC!

Again, absurd, but no different from the logic you're using to assume Utica would roll everyone in the NEFC.

If we consider only results from 2012, ignoring previous years, there is a surprising amount of data suggesting that NEFC's "best" teams are capable of competing with other Eastern conferences, and at the very least that we've moved past the "every team in the Empire 8 would win the NEFC" era.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 05:23:41 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 03:00:29 PM
I hear you Kaz...and I will admit that I did not read Frank's write up...but anyone that knows anything about East Region football can look at an 8-1 NEFC record and immediately know that a 6-4 Utica team, who is probably only the 6th best team in the E8, would probably run the table in the NEFC.

Oh, come on, get off your high horse.  Your vitriol is really starting to blind you to on-field results, isn't it?  The E8, LL, and NJAC are collectively better than the NEFC and the teams at the bottom of those three conferences would KILL the teams at the bottom of the NEFC.  That doesn't mean their sixth-best team would run the table in the NEFC.
 
Springfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

Montclair State finished 5-5 and effectively tied for third in the NJAC (since the Kean/Rowan game was never played, Kean finished 5-2 in conference and Montclair 5-3; since Montclair also beat Kean head-to-head, it seems fair to call that a "tie for third" of sorts).  Salve Regina also beat Montclair, so entire passage about re: Union applies here again.

Those are three wins against three different teams that finished in the top half of three different Eastern conferences, posted by two different NEFC teams, neither of whom claimed the NEFC's Pool A bid.   Still ready to guarantee that the sixth-best team in (insert other East conference here) is a lock to run the table in the NEFC?

Lest you get confused: none of this is an argument to show that the NEFC is "stronger" than the other conferences.   I'm merely pointing out that several teams who are not from the "bottom" of  the other Eastern conferences lost to some of the top NEFC teams this season, and therefore, I find it difficult to agree with the statement that teams from the bottom half of the Empire 8, LL, or NJAC would run the table in the NEFC.

You can say whatever you want...and anyone that knows me at all knows I am absolutely the farthest thing from a Utica fan...but you would be crazy to think that Utica wouldn't be at worst 9-1 with an NEFC schedule, and would probably run the table.  Remember when everyone was high on Salve (myself included) because they beat Union by 3 points with an 11 point rally in the 4th quarter?  Utica destroyed Union to the tune of 45-17.  Though I guess I am "blinded" by on field results. 

So....yeah...I think Utica if they played in the NEFC would absolutely be the cream of the crop...and immediately.

I know that Utica and other teams would go 8-2 or 9-1 in the NEFC, and I said as much in my first post, but assuming that they'd beat everyone is going against on-field results from this year where NEFC teams beat teams from the top half of other Eastern conferences (and I'll acknowledge my flub of referring to Springfield as an E8 team when they're now LL, that's my negligence).

Basically, you're selectively choosing only results that support your argument while pretending that the other ones don't count.  It's the equivalent of sticking your thumbs in your ears and singing "la-la-la" until your mom gives you what you want.  What if I said this:

Framingham State beat Salve by 12, and since Salve beat LL runner-up Union, I'll go ahead and assume Framingham would run the table in the Liberty League.

You'd say that I'm an idiot, right?  Of course, it's basically what you're doing when you assume that Utica would beat everyone in the NEFC because they beat Union by more than Salve (again: not this year's NEFC champion) did.

Let's spin the wheel again:

Utica beat Union by 28, while Salve only beat them by 3, so therefore Utica would kill everyone in the NEFC!  Huzzah for the Empire 8!  Problem solved!

But wait...Ithaca also beat Union by 3 (at home, no less, while Salve did it on the road), and Ithaca then beat Utica 40-22.  Um.  So maybe it's not a guarantee that "teams who only beat Union by 3" are a lock to lose to Utica.

Or maybe you like this one:

Bridgewater State beat Springfield on the road by 4, and Springfield beat second-place Empire 8 team Alfred by 23, so therefore Bridgewater State would beat everyone in the Empire 8!  Huzzah for the NEFC!

Again, absurd, but no different from the logic you're using to assume Utica would roll everyone in the NEFC.

If we consider only results from 2012, ignoring previous years, there is a surprising amount of data suggesting that NEFC's "best" teams are capable of competing with other Eastern conferences, and at the very least that we've moved past the "every team in the Empire 8 would win the NEFC" era.

This. +K
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 19, 2012, 05:39:33 PM
C'mon now, even NJCU would roll through the NEFC.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 05:49:39 PM
You are forgetting that Utica technically tied for 3rd in the E8...but if you would have read closer, you would have seen that I said that Utica is "probably" considered only the 6th best team.

Look...I see what I see.  I am not giving the NEFC any props until they actually do something that deserves it.  Congrats...their best teams are "capable" of competing with other conferences...which is really just a nice way of saying they aren't going to get rolled every week.  I am willing to bet that if a poll is put together that asked who has the best chance of finishing undefeated playing an NEFC schedule...and Utica, Salve, Endicott, Bridgewater, and Framingham were on the list...that UC would be the overwhelming winner.

How is this for selectively choosing results...2 and 16 all time in the NCAA playoffs...losing by an average of nearly 24 points.  You can't hide from facts like that...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 05:57:30 PM
ETP some good points, but wouldn't anyone selectively choose game examples that support their argument? The wheel is always turning and all of us choose to stop it where it serves our thoughts best. However yanks stat is simply undeniable and better yet the argument regarding the NEFC teams' lack of ooc scheduling is the basis for all of this. If more than 2 out of 16 NEFC teams schedued other east region institutions we would hVe many more for or against stats to use. Either way all anyone wants is for these teams that are being considered for pool c bids to play outside there conferences ( like ****in everyine else) and prove that they belong. It's very simple really.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.

Now we are getting a little ridiculous. If an NEFC team stays in region and goes 10-0 or 9-1 then they don't deserve a bid because they didn't play anyone. If they schedule a team from the E8, NJAC or LL and beat them, well that doesn't mean anything either, because if they played AGAIN, the E8, NJAC or LL team would have won, we swear, they would have. Your argument is just changing to always put down the conference.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 06:21:15 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.

Now we are getting a little ridiculous. If an NEFC team stays in region and goes 10-0 or 9-1 then they don't deserve a bid because they didn't play anyone. If they schedule a team from the E8, NJAC or LL and beat them, well that doesn't mean anything either, because if they played AGAIN, the E8, NJAC or LL team would have won, we swear, they would have. Your argument is just changing to always put down the conference.

You are missing the big point...16 teams...and 6 total non-conference game against teams not in the NEFC or ECFC.  That is what is keeping any of these teams from getting any respect...plus...that damn 2-16 NCAA record...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.

Now we are getting a little ridiculous. If an NEFC team stays in region and goes 10-0 or 9-1 then they don't deserve a bid because they didn't play anyone. If they schedule a team from the E8, NJAC or LL and beat them, well that doesn't mean anything either, because if they played AGAIN, the E8, NJAC or LL team would have won, we swear, they would have. Your argument is just changing to always put down the conference.

No no dlip doesn't think his argument is changing at all. He gives credit to both teams for their respective wins over the likes of Springfield and Union. However, with those being the only two (a possible third being Salve's win over Montclair) there is not much else to look at here is there? You are clearly missing dlip's obvious point. He loves what Salve did. dlip did color for that game and credited Salve time and again for their improved scheduling. He also gave credit to Framingham for their solid game against Cortland. If the other teams from this conference did this  during the season then there would be no need for this discussion because their would be so many games to use to determine the conference's relative strength.

Are you saying we are not able to look at the three wins and make judgements from them? Did Salve defeat Salisbury, SJF, Rowan, etc etc etc? No, if they did they would immediately have more respect. Now they defeated who they needed to OOC but then...lost to a poorous MIT team. What do you want to hear from us pal? We have all given Bridgewater and Salve their due for their wins but they are only two teams from a sixteen team conference that plays no one OOC. So now this 16 team conference has arrived because two out of te 16 teams defeated an avg Union and Springfield team? Both of whom looked very different at the end of the season. Should we ignore that also?

Bottom line go out and play someone on a consistent basis or STFU when it comes to getting questioned regarding receiving a bid to the tourney over teams that play stiffer competition year in and year out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
The E8, LL, and NJAC teams have to agree to play NEFC teams too. It's not just a one way street, as everyone seems to be making it. Why don't these teams go out of their way to schedule the NEFC? Help the OOC and play an easier team. Seems like a slam dunk doesn't it?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:28:30 PM
I mean, if the NEFC teams are so easy to beat, and may be likely to end with a good record, the "better" conferences should be lining up to play them, especially if they want to complain that they don't belong in the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
The E8, LL, and NJAC teams have to agree to play NEFC teams too. It's not just a one way street, as everyone seems to be making it. Why don't these teams go out of their way to schedule the NEFC? Help the OOC and play an easier team. Seems like a slam dunk doesn't it?

Yeah, just like the SEC should bang on the door of the MAC to beg for match-ups? It doesn't work that way and shouldn't work that way. dlip would be SHOCKED if he found out that the door is being slammed on the other 14 NEFC teams by E8, NJAC, LL, and MAC schools every year when it comes to scheduling. If that is/were the case then shame on any of those schools that wouldn't play an NEFC team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
The E8, LL, and NJAC teams have to agree to play NEFC teams too. It's not just a one way street, as everyone seems to be making it. Why don't these teams go out of their way to schedule the NEFC? Help the OOC and play an easier team. Seems like a slam dunk doesn't it?

Yeah, just like the SEC should bang on the door of the MAC to beg for match-ups? It doesn't work that way and shouldn't work that way. dlip would be SHOCKED if he found out that the door is being slammed on the other 14 NEFC teams by E8, NJAC, LL, and MAC schools every year when it comes to scheduling. If that is/were the case then shame on any of those schools that wouldn't play an NEFC team.

This isn't division 1, and there isn't scholarship money involved -- It's like Apples and oranges. Also, SEC PAYS schools from the MAC to play them -- that certainly doesn't happen in D3.

Plus, playing the "top" NEFC teams would HELP the chances of the other conference's Pool C teams. It's not like the BCS where playing the MAC teams reduces the BCS number, it actually increases the record versus RRO and SOS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.

Now we are getting a little ridiculous. If an NEFC team stays in region and goes 10-0 or 9-1 then they don't deserve a bid because they didn't play anyone. If they schedule a team from the E8, NJAC or LL and beat them, well that doesn't mean anything either, because if they played AGAIN, the E8, NJAC or LL team would have won, we swear, they would have. Your argument is just changing to always put down the conference.

Now now, only teams from the good conferences are allowed to improve during the season. No way those NEFC teams could have gotten better too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 06:38:41 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
The E8, LL, and NJAC teams have to agree to play NEFC teams too. It's not just a one way street, as everyone seems to be making it. Why don't these teams go out of their way to schedule the NEFC? Help the OOC and play an easier team. Seems like a slam dunk doesn't it?

Yeah, just like the SEC should bang on the door of the MAC to beg for match-ups? It doesn't work that way and shouldn't work that way. dlip would be SHOCKED if he found out that the door is being slammed on the other 14 NEFC teams by E8, NJAC, LL, and MAC schools every year when it comes to scheduling. If that is/were the case then shame on any of those schools that wouldn't play an NEFC team.

Actually, yeah, Division I teams pay FCS schools and MAC schools to play them every year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 06:40:34 PM
You are exactly right pg04 that it would benefit all involved to play each other. Honestly if dlip was a HC of an ER team, looking at what the comittee has been doing, he would try to play three OOC games against what would at least appear to be lesser opponents. Maybe two against NEFC teams and one against ECFC teams or whatever mix.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2012, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 06:40:34 PM
You are exactly right pg04 that it would benefit all involved to play each other. Honestly if dlip was a HC of an ER team, looking at what the comittee has been doing, he would try to play three OOC games against what would at least appear to be lesser opponents. Maybe two against NEFC teams and one against ECFC teams or whatever mix.

Many schools have long scheduled this way, especially in basketball - schedule top teams from weak conferences.  Unless you misjudged, you get a nice SoS boost and, presumably, a win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2012, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 06:40:34 PM
You are exactly right pg04 that it would benefit all involved to play each other. Honestly if dlip was a HC of an ER team, looking at what the comittee has been doing, he would try to play three OOC games against what would at least appear to be lesser opponents. Maybe two against NEFC teams and one against ECFC teams or whatever mix.

Many schools have long scheduled this way, especially in basketball - schedule top teams from weak conferences.  Unless you misjudged, you get a nice SoS boost and, presumably, a win.

It seems like this would be the best way to eliminate at large bids from "bad" conferences. Unless of course the team from the weak conference actually wins.  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:08:34 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2012, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 06:40:34 PM
You are exactly right pg04 that it would benefit all involved to play each other. Honestly if dlip was a HC of an ER team, looking at what the comittee has been doing, he would try to play three OOC games against what would at least appear to be lesser opponents. Maybe two against NEFC teams and one against ECFC teams or whatever mix.

Many schools have long scheduled this way, especially in basketball - schedule top teams from weak conferences.  Unless you misjudged, you get a nice SoS boost and, presumably, a win.

It seems like this would be the best way to eliminate at large bids from "bad" conferences. Unless of course the team from the weak conference actually wins.  ;)

That couldn't possibly happen! No way any team that will finish in the top half of any ither Eastern conference will lose to any NEFC team! 

Wait...what's that? The second AND third place LL teams lost to NEFC teams this year? Two different ones?  Well, it's a good thing they don't play any Empire 8 teams. The sixth-best Empire 8 team would surely beat all of them.

Wait...what's that? One of those Liberty League teams beat the Empire 8 runner up this year? One of the teams that lost to the NEFC? Well surely they must have lost to the NEFC champion, right? Oh...wait...they lost to an NEFC team that didn't even play for the conference title?

Whatever, dude. I see what I see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.

Wesleydad, I think the Widener-Salisbury matchup is one of the most intriguing. I like Widener, but I could see this going either way. Salisbury offense is tough to prepare for if you're not used to it.

I'm trying to recall - are you a longtime Wesley poster or a more recent addition? I was part of a CMU team that got steamrolled by Wesley in the second round of the 2006 playoffs, and while the game was obviously somewhat unpleasant, I still found the Wesley game day experience pretty cool. Great fans, good stadium as far as D3 venues go, and an intense atmosphere. Too bad we weren't good enough to make much of a game of it :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 07:18:48 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 19, 2012, 06:03:07 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.

Now we are getting a little ridiculous. If an NEFC team stays in region and goes 10-0 or 9-1 then they don't deserve a bid because they didn't play anyone. If they schedule a team from the E8, NJAC or LL and beat them, well that doesn't mean anything either, because if they played AGAIN, the E8, NJAC or LL team would have won, we swear, they would have. Your argument is just changing to always put down the conference.

Now now, only teams from the good conferences are allowed to improve during the season. No way those NEFC teams could have gotten better too.

O.K. dlip can see we are getting testy. No need this is a good discussion. Let dlip try this. Let's look at MIT's big victory over Salve. It was a big victory and definitely was representative of their growth as a team within themselves and their conference. Yet how impressive was that win in regards to showing the overall relative strength of MIT in relation to the best of the East Region? Now let's look at Ithaca's win over Salisbury. Another big win right? A win that showed Ithaca's growth not only this season but over the past two seasons. Which win represents a stronger performance in relation to the strength of the East regions best teams? Obviously Ithaca's. This does not take away the splender of MIT's victory yet it holds more water in any discussion and/or comparison of Ithaca's strength compared to MIT's.

Well MIT can't control who they play in their conference? Correct hence the NEED for teams within the NEFC to schedule stronger teams OOC to prove that they belong. Thats it, simple.

Oh yeah you missed the point again with the SEC comparison. It was not to say that the SEC does not "want" to play MAC teams but that they don't choose to play MAC teams to gain more respect on a national level. Which is true. Auburn wouldn't schedule Buffalo to help improve it's BCS reputation.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 07:21:33 PM
Quote
Whatever, dude. I see what I see

Seemingly the issue here maybe for us both  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
Last comment then dlip will let it go...maybe

The NEFC is as good a conference as the E8, LL, NJAC, and the MAC and is deserving of a pool C bid in regards to their relative strength in comparison to the aforementioned conferences.

True or false? ****in easy...time for a poll
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.

Wesleydad, I think the Widener-Salisbury matchup is one of the most intriguing. I like Widener, but I could see this going either way. Salisbury offense is tough to prepare for if you're not used to it.

I'm trying to recall - are you a longtime Wesley poster or a more recent addition? I was part of a CMU team that got steamrolled by Wesley in the second round of the 2006 playoffs, and while the game was obviously somewhat unpleasant, I still found the Wesley game day experience pretty cool. Great fans, good stadium as far as D3 venues go, and an intense atmosphere. Too bad we weren't good enough to make much of a game of it :)

etp, my son was the slot receiver in that game.  he played high school ball with your starting qb mulkern here in pa.  that was a pretty good squad you got rolled by.  wesley is a pretty nice place to play and watch a game.  the crowd does come out and they do get intense.  there only loss that year was to uww.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 07:28:39 PM
I definitely see the argument of those I'm opposing here; a record of 2-16 in the playoffs is GLARING and the most significant point made. Part of me just likes to argue (since the side of NEFC is severely underrepresented here), but I also feel that the argument I have been making is compelling.

My main contention is that unless there is more regular season competition between the NEFC and the "power" conferences (and that relies on both sides scheduling it), there are going to be NEFC teams getting at large bids.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:29:34 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.

Wesleydad, I think the Widener-Salisbury matchup is one of the most intriguing. I like Widener, but I could see this going either way. Salisbury offense is tough to prepare for if you're not used to it.

I'm trying to recall - are you a longtime Wesley poster or a more recent addition? I was part of a CMU team that got steamrolled by Wesley in the second round of the 2006 playoffs, and while the game was obviously somewhat unpleasant, I still found the Wesley game day experience pretty cool. Great fans, good stadium as far as D3 venues go, and an intense atmosphere. Too bad we weren't good enough to make much of a game of it :)

etp, my son was the slot receiver in that game.  he played high school ball with your starting qb mulkern here in pa.  that was a pretty good squad you got rolled by.  wesley is a pretty nice place to play and watch a game.  the crowd does come out and they do get intense.  there only loss that year was to uww.

No kidding! If your son played with Mulkern you must be from close by my hometown as well - I grew up close to Reading, PA (played for Wyomissing HS). Very cool. That was indeed a good Wesley squad in 2006...hope your son is doing well!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 07:30:19 PM
pg04 you always bring such a sense of rationale to the board +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 07:31:34 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
Last comment then dlip will let it go...maybe

The NEFC is as good a conference as the E8, LL, NJAC, and the MAC and is deserving of a pool C bid in regards to their relative strength in comparison to the aforementioned conferences.

True or false? ****in easy...time for a poll

I understand your disgruntlement (is that a word?) but this question isn't really relevant, to be honest. Pool C does not and probably will not be determined by a subjective determination of conference strength.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 07:30:19 PM
pg04 you always bring such a sense of rationale to the board +k

Well, maybe sometimes  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
Last comment then dlip will let it go...maybe

The NEFC is as good a conference as the E8, LL, NJAC, and the MAC and is deserving of a pool C bid in regards to their relative strength in comparison to the aforementioned conferences.

True or false? ****in easy...time for a poll

Look, you're still misunderstanding my point. I have never said this, in fact several times I have stated IN THIS THREAD that this is not so. My vigorous defense of the NEFC stems from a comment by LewDogg that the sixth-best Empire 8 team would "run the table" in the NEFC despite ample evidence from 2012 results (not that lovely 2-16 record you guys keep bringing up, which includes a dozen results that would not overlap with a single current player on any roster) that the top 3-4 NEFC teams were certainly quite capable of playing with and beating respectable opponents. That is NOT equal to the statement you're now making in some childish effort to make me look like the one with his head stuck in the sand.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 19, 2012, 07:38:51 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.
Wesleydad
Being a homer...of course I am calling for the WU win...
Being a realist means I have to agree with your assessment.   I am concerned with the triple option...it takes discipline to defend, and that is one thing this D has not really shown...They can make plays, but we'll see how they defend in their gaps and space...
I am still a bit concerned about the offense as well, which I feel will be the difference if WU were to lose...The first half of the BU game was nothing but mistakes and turnovers...if that stays the same, they lose...period, and it will be ugly....

Now for my gratuitous ugly uniform commentary...
I watched a bit of the Rowan/SU game on live stream...
When your unis are uglier than Rowan's...thats bad...
(I could hardly look at them)...In all my years, I have never seen a brown and gold seagull...wondering where those colors came from...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 07:42:55 PM
I'm going to go on record and say that I removed the poll that dlip (no offense to dlip meant) created (which for some reason we have the ability to do) for a couple reasons: 1) I don't think anyone will disagree with the premise and 2) It will just lead to more venomous vitriol (nice alliteration!) between the two sides.


...and it just takes up space when we could have a more relevant poll about the playoffs up, like who will win between Widener and Salisbury.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: bman on November 19, 2012, 07:38:51 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.
Wesleydad
Being a homer...of course I am calling for the WU win...
Being a realist means I have to agree with your assessment.   I am concerned with the triple option...it takes discipline to defend, and that is one thing this D has not really shown...They can make plays, but we'll see how they defend in their gaps and space...
I am still a bit concerned about the offense as well, which I feel will be the difference if WU were to lose...The first half of the BU game was nothing but mistakes and turnovers...if that stays the same, they lose...period, and it will be ugly....

Now for my gratuitous ugly uniform commentary...
I watched a bit of the Rowan/SU game on live stream...
When your unis are uglier than Rowan's...thats bad...
(I could hardly look at them)...In all my years, I have never seen a brown and gold seagull...wondering where those colors came from...

bman, if the pride turn it over it will be ugly, well unless the gulls do the same thing.  your video must have been bad the gulls are red/maroon and gold, not bad looking actually.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 08:04:08 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:29:34 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.

Wesleydad, I think the Widener-Salisbury matchup is one of the most intriguing. I like Widener, but I could see this going either way. Salisbury offense is tough to prepare for if you're not used to it.

I'm trying to recall - are you a longtime Wesley poster or a more recent addition? I was part of a CMU team that got steamrolled by Wesley in the second round of the 2006 playoffs, and while the game was obviously somewhat unpleasant, I still found the Wesley game day experience pretty cool. Great fans, good stadium as far as D3 venues go, and an intense atmosphere. Too bad we weren't good enough to make much of a game of it :)

etp, my son was the slot receiver in that game.  he played high school ball with your starting qb mulkern here in pa.  that was a pretty good squad you got rolled by.  wesley is a pretty nice place to play and watch a game.  the crowd does come out and they do get intense.  there only loss that year was to uww.

No kidding! If your son played with Mulkern you must be from close by my hometown as well - I grew up close to Reading, PA (played for Wyomissing HS). Very cool. That was indeed a good Wesley squad in 2006...hope your son is doing well!

we live outside of philly in media now.  he is doing well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 19, 2012, 08:15:00 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 06:38:41 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
The E8, LL, and NJAC teams have to agree to play NEFC teams too. It's not just a one way street, as everyone seems to be making it. Why don't these teams go out of their way to schedule the NEFC? Help the OOC and play an easier team. Seems like a slam dunk doesn't it?

Yeah, just like the SEC should bang on the door of the MAC to beg for match-ups? It doesn't work that way and shouldn't work that way. dlip would be SHOCKED if he found out that the door is being slammed on the other 14 NEFC teams by E8, NJAC, LL, and MAC schools every year when it comes to scheduling. If that is/were the case then shame on any of those schools that wouldn't play an NEFC team.

Actually, yeah, Division I teams pay FCS schools and MAC schools to play them every year.

Yes, but that's in order to not return the game, right? We do have some guarantee games here but mostly we play home-and-homes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 19, 2012, 08:24:35 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: bman on November 19, 2012, 07:38:51 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 06:51:50 PM
now that we have beat this to death anyone got a thought on what could be a great match up between widener/salisbury.  i have seen both play and think this could be a wild one.  widener does not stop the run very well from what i saw against del val so they could be in trouble when the gulls have the ball, especially trying to defend the triple option.  i think salisbury is vulnerable to the pass which is what widener does pretty well so they could be in trouble when widener has the ball.  in the end i think that the gulls have a better defense and will be able to stop the pride more than the pride will be able to stop the gulls.  after hobart got moved this is the pseudo east championship and the winner gets to go to alliance, yes, i am predicting mount wins next week.
Wesleydad
Being a homer...of course I am calling for the WU win...
Being a realist means I have to agree with your assessment.   I am concerned with the triple option...it takes discipline to defend, and that is one thing this D has not really shown...They can make plays, but we'll see how they defend in their gaps and space...
I am still a bit concerned about the offense as well, which I feel will be the difference if WU were to lose...The first half of the BU game was nothing but mistakes and turnovers...if that stays the same, they lose...period, and it will be ugly....

Now for my gratuitous ugly uniform commentary...
I watched a bit of the Rowan/SU game on live stream...
When your unis are uglier than Rowan's...thats bad...
(I could hardly look at them)...In all my years, I have never seen a brown and gold seagull...wondering where those colors came from...

bman, if the pride turn it over it will be ugly, well unless the gulls do the same thing.  your video must have been bad the gulls are red/maroon and gold, not bad looking actually.
They looked Brown on the stream, and not a good looking brown either...glad to hear...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 19, 2012, 08:25:52 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 07:28:39 PM
I definitely see the argument of those I'm opposing here; a record of 2-16 in the playoffs is GLARING and the most significant point made.

And the margin of defeat was already noted, but in fact, it gets worse for NEFC teams. Here are some of the results of games where the NEFC played an opponent within a touchdown, followed by that opponent's game in the next round.

1999: Ursinus 43, Bridgewater State 38
Rowan 55, Ursinus 0
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Ursinus/1999/index

2001: Western Connecticut 8, Westfield State 7
Rowan 43, Western Connecticut 14
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Western_Connecticut/2001/index

In 2007 and 2008 Curry got the conference's two playoff wins, then got steamrolled the following week.

These are the only non-double-digits playoff losses for the NEFC before Framingham State lost to Cortland this past Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SU Backer on November 19, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
Obviously Widener is undefeated for a reason-they are a good football team...but that said SU is a good team as well and I feel a bit more battle tested as far as this year's schedule goes...I feel that is the difference and SU wins this one in a close game...in their snazzy away maroon, gold and white unis to boot!

and bman....I have yet to see a blue and white lion as well! ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 19, 2012, 08:30:54 PM
Quote from: SU Backer on November 19, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
Obviously Widener is undefeated for a reason-they are a good football team...but that said SU is a good team as well and I feel a bit more battle tested as far as this year's schedule goes...I feel that is the difference and SU wins this one in a close game...in their snazzy away maroon, gold and white unis to boot!

and bman....I have yet to see a blue and white lion as well! ;)
Touche!

I never quite understood the change to the pride...I was partial to the Pioneers (a reference to military engineers)...
I do like the new unis though, and they are better than the old Columbia Blue and Gold...

Wesleydad, are you heading to Dover this weekend?
SU Backer, are you coming to Chester?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2012, 08:32:28 PM
QuoteThat is NOT equal to the statement you're now making in some childish effort to make me look like the one with his head stuck in the sand.

Classy move to call that childish, it was dlip's point all the way along and the point you continued to debate.You may view it as childish but to dlip it has been blatently obvious all along. If your debate was indeed based upon LD's statements then you sure strayed from that IDHO. Know that dlip was not trying to insult you in anyway and is annoyed that you felt the need to take it to that point. dlip will hold off from any insults and take the high road here. We can agree to disagree and it can rest at that. Honestly dlip likes debates like this and feels this is a valid topic for discussion (alhtough admittedly beaten to death here) because it seems to keep happening. Good talking with you ETP, +k for the discussion.

dlip thinks the poll should have stayed pg04, it sttod for dlip's point, an obvious one. dlip would never take down your poll...ha...ha...ha  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 08:36:56 PM
Sorry Dlip, I may have left it if we could put two polls up  ??? , but I am interested to see what people think about this week's game. I think we do all get your point.  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SU Backer on November 19, 2012, 08:43:34 PM
Hi bman...I wish I could, but the wife agreed to a wedding invite for a friend's daughter...she said "I just looked at the regular schedule and forgot about the playoffs"...oh well, the wedding isn't until 3 so I should be able to watch the first half on the stream...a few years ago SU played Widener there and I went to the game...nice facility and some tailgating!...If my memory serves you guys used to fire a cannon after a TD?...or am I thinking of somewhere else?...either way I think this should a good game...and if I am right on that cannon I hope the guns are silent this weekend!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 19, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: SU Backer on November 19, 2012, 08:43:34 PM
Hi bman...I wish I could, but the wife agreed to a wedding invite for a friend's daughter...she said "I just looked at the regular schedule and forgot about the playoffs"...oh well, the wedding isn't until 3 so I should be able to watch the first half on the stream...a few years ago SU played Widener there and I went to the game...nice facility and some tailgating!...If my memory serves you guys used to fire a cannon after a TD?...or am I thinking of somewhere else?...either way I think this should a good game...and if I am right on that cannon I hope the guns are silent this weekend!
I understand completely...happens to me as well...I expected to go to the WU del Val game, which I was looking forward to all season...and ended up having to work.
We are planning the tailgate now...

You are correct, they do fire the cannon (Mostly) after every WU score...I'm expecting at least 6 shots fired... ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2012, 09:27:44 PM
bman, yea, will be heading to dover.  if they were in line for a sure as in home in the quarters game then there would be a good chance that i would go to widener since i believe that that game will be much better than the wesley game is going to be.  as much bashing as the nefc is taking on this thread, framingham did almost beat cortland and may have without the turnovers.  a running back over 200 yards certainly does not bode well for cortland since wesley can also pass.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 09:59:16 PM
+K to you as well, dlip. I also enjoy a good debate over D-III ball and don't carry grudges over a forum discussion. I know the East Region is more your domain than mine, but I played a number of games vs. East opponents while in school and grew up ten minutes from Albright, so I've always been in touch with the East somehow.  I still think I'm "right" based on 2012 results, but I also think that we all want essentially the same thing going forward - more actual inter-conference play to evaluate whether the NEFC is actually moving forward beyond those ugly results from the early 2000s. I think that at least the top 3-4 teams in the league are, and Salve's recent step forward as well as Bridgewater State playing Springfield (anyone know if that series continues for a few more years?) are steps in the right direction. We'll see if it continues.

No +K for that scurvy LewDogg, though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 19, 2012, 10:59:31 PM
Quote001: Western Connecticut 8, Westfield State 7
Rowan 43, Western Connecticut 14
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Western_Connecticut/2001/index

I covered that West Conn/Westfield State game for us back in the day.  Second worst Division III football game I've ever seen, ahead of a 7-0 Trinity/Hamilton stinker in the late 1990s.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 19, 2012, 11:09:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 19, 2012, 08:25:52 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 07:28:39 PM
I definitely see the argument of those I'm opposing here; a record of 2-16 in the playoffs is GLARING and the most significant point made.

And the margin of defeat was already noted, but in fact, it gets worse for NEFC teams. Here are some of the results of games where the NEFC played an opponent within a touchdown, followed by that opponent's game in the next round.

1999: Ursinus 43, Bridgewater State 38
Rowan 55, Ursinus 0
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Ursinus/1999/index

2001: Western Connecticut 8, Westfield State 7
Rowan 43, Western Connecticut 14
http://www.d3football.com/teams/Western_Connecticut/2001/index

In 2007 and 2008 Curry got the conference's two playoff wins, then got steamrolled the following week.

These are the only non-double-digits playoff losses for the NEFC before Framingham State lost to Cortland this past Saturday.

History says that Cortland gets Monkey Stomped this Saterday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 19, 2012, 11:24:44 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

Yes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 20, 2012, 06:29:52 AM
Holy crap this board blew up yesterday!
+k for some great reading!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 06:30:28 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

We can always start debating whether it's more impressive to pilot a good all-around team a few rounds into the plaoffs with superb QB play, or to carry a 2-3 win team to 7-8 wins with superb QB play.

It's really like debating between peanut butter and bacon.  Both are fantastic, but they are hard to compare.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 20, 2012, 08:27:40 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
Last comment then dlip will let it go...maybe

The NEFC is as good a conference as the E8, LL, NJAC, and the MAC and is deserving of a pool C bid in regards to their relative strength in comparison to the aforementioned conferences.

True or false? ****in easy...time for a poll

Look, you're still misunderstanding my point. I have never said this, in fact several times I have stated IN THIS THREAD that this is not so. My vigorous defense of the NEFC stems from a comment by LewDogg that the sixth-best Empire 8 team would "run the table" in the NEFC despite ample evidence from 2012 results (not that lovely 2-16 record you guys keep bringing up, which includes a dozen results that would not overlap with a single current player on any roster) that the top 3-4 NEFC teams were certainly quite capable of playing with and beating respectable opponents. That is NOT equal to the statement you're now making in some childish effort to make me look like the one with his head stuck in the sand.

Yanks said this, not me.  I don't completely disagree that Utica would have been at least 8-2 or 9-1, but I wouldn't make this statement.  Sorry for being so 'scurvy' whatever the f*ck that means.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.med.uc.edu%2Fdepartme%2Fcellbiol%2FImage7.gif&hash=67f9a5e448c490132a0a5e3448a5632358626053)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 08:42:50 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 06:30:28 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

We can always start debating whether it's more impressive to pilot a good all-around team a few rounds into the plaoffs with superb QB play, or to carry a 2-3 win team to 7-8 wins with superb QB play.

It's really like debating between peanut butter and bacon.  Both are fantastic, but they are hard to compare.

Felicetti = Bacon. Boltus = Not bacon
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 08:56:52 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 08:42:50 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 06:30:28 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

We can always start debating whether it's more impressive to pilot a good all-around team a few rounds into the plaoffs with superb QB play, or to carry a 2-3 win team to 7-8 wins with superb QB play.

It's really like debating between peanut butter and bacon.  Both are fantastic, but they are hard to compare.

Felicetti = Bacon. Boltus = Not bacon

Ha...nice...+k...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 06:30:28 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

We can always start debating whether it's more impressive to pilot a good all-around team a few rounds into the plaoffs with superb QB play, or to carry a 2-3 win team to 7-8 wins with superb QB play.

It's really like debating between peanut butter and bacon.  Both are fantastic, but they are hard to compare.

I'm just mad I didn't know about the debate till after the fact. Thanks for nothing ETP ;) I would have loved to chime in. I heart debates on this board. Seriously, I want IC to be good again just so I can start having more things to argue about. K+ for everyone
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 20, 2012, 08:27:40 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 19, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
Last comment then dlip will let it go...maybe

The NEFC is as good a conference as the E8, LL, NJAC, and the MAC and is deserving of a pool C bid in regards to their relative strength in comparison to the aforementioned conferences.

True or false? ****in easy...time for a poll

Look, you're still misunderstanding my point. I have never said this, in fact several times I have stated IN THIS THREAD that this is not so. My vigorous defense of the NEFC stems from a comment by LewDogg that the sixth-best Empire 8 team would "run the table" in the NEFC despite ample evidence from 2012 results (not that lovely 2-16 record you guys keep bringing up, which includes a dozen results that would not overlap with a single current player on any roster) that the top 3-4 NEFC teams were certainly quite capable of playing with and beating respectable opponents. That is NOT equal to the statement you're now making in some childish effort to make me look like the one with his head stuck in the sand.

Yanks said this, not me.  I don't completely disagree that Utica would have been at least 8-2 or 9-1, but I wouldn't make this statement.  Sorry for being so 'scurvy' whatever the f*ck that means.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.med.uc.edu%2Fdepartme%2Fcellbiol%2FImage7.gif&hash=67f9a5e448c490132a0a5e3448a5632358626053)

Ah, now that I look back, you're right.  I blame the misunderstanding on taking too many hits to the head, resulting in early cognitive decline.

+K for everyone!  Huzzah!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 06:30:28 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

We can always start debating whether it's more impressive to pilot a good all-around team a few rounds into the plaoffs with superb QB play, or to carry a 2-3 win team to 7-8 wins with superb QB play.

It's really like debating between peanut butter and bacon.  Both are fantastic, but they are hard to compare.

I'm just mad I didn't know about the debate till after the fact. Thanks for nothing ETP ;)

You know, you can publicly post your cell phone number and we can just call you at a moment's notice when one erupts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 11:05:55 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 06:30:28 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 19, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Holy god, I go away for one night, and everyone goes crazy. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, so I'm just going to assume it's about Cortland sucking

We can always start debating whether it's more impressive to pilot a good all-around team a few rounds into the plaoffs with superb QB play, or to carry a 2-3 win team to 7-8 wins with superb QB play.

It's really like debating between peanut butter and bacon.  Both are fantastic, but they are hard to compare.

I'm just mad I didn't know about the debate till after the fact. Thanks for nothing ETP ;)

You know, you can publicly post your cell phone number and we can just call you at a moment's notice when one erupts.

Yeah, but then Frank Rossi will prank call me at 2 A.M. There's a trade-off to consider here
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 20, 2012, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 19, 2012, 05:10:07 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 19, 2012, 04:14:46 PM
My Utica arguement stands...that is just what I think.

My point above was not aimed at one specific NEFC team...just that I thought it was ridiculous that 4 x NEFC teams were ranked in the East Region Top 10...

It is absurd that 4 NEFC teams were in the East Region Top 10 and yes, Utica would almost definitely run the table in the NEFC. Listen dlip has no hate towards to NEFC and is happy for the players within the league that get exposed to the NCAA tourney. It's the way the system is set up that is disturbing. dlip doesn't care if horsecock University get's a bid from the Atlantic Ocean Starfish Conference, as long as they deserve it and have defeated enough "quality" opponents that stack up against other in region teams. This however is not the case in the NEFC like it or not. Just being a realist here not a hater.

QuoteSpringfield finished 8-3 and third in the Empire 8.  They lost to a Bridgewater State team who did not win the NEFC.  I know what you guys are screaming about early-season results and how much better Springfield was at the end of the year...but still, guys, how many excuses are you going to make for teams from your own conference(s) while continually slamming the NEFC?

Union finished 6-4 and second in the Liberty League.  They lost to a Salve Regina team that lost two NEFC games, including one to an MIT team from the middle of the conference.  You wanna guarantee me that Union runs the table in the NEFC without dropping one game somewhere?  Sure, they'd go 8-2 at worst, but I'm not ready to bet my life that they're running the table.

These statements regarding the probability that both Union and Springfield would defeat both Bridgewater and Salve later in the season are not excuses, they are realistic assumptions based upon both teams improvements against "stronger" competition as the year progressed. A win is still and win and both BS and SR deserve credit for the wins but those wins are not monumental and again, were early season wins against two teams that started out very average at best and grew by leaps and bounds as the season progressed.

All I know is that I hear Mt. Ida is opening up with Horsecock University next year.  Nothing better than a Mustang/Horsecock battle in early September.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
Thanks for all the reading.  I think I came out of that with slightly more respect for the NEFC, which I still think is a drop off from the top 4 East conferences, but I'm willing to entertain the idea of improvement.  I also agree with the context/timing of the games we're cherry-picking.  I'm not as knowledgeable about Union, but Dlip is right about the improvement of Springfield over the course of the year after changing signal callers.  And that plays into the Pride's result against my Saxons as well - Springfield kept improving while Alfred was down to their 2nd QB and 4th RB on the season.  Enough to beat Frostburg and Hartwick, but not enough to hang with Springfield.  All that said, and barring a string of injuries, I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).

I have agreed with and stated this repeatedly, as well as agreeing that in head to head matchups top to bottom the NEFC would get killed (i.e. the teams at the bottom of E8, LL, and NJAC would kill the teams at the bottom of the NEFC).

My point all along in this thread has been that the top three or four NEFC teams are now good enough that an Empire 8 or Liberty League bottom-feeder would not run roughshod over the ENTIRE conference.  Again, this was mostly spurred by Yanks' statement that he believes Utica, the sixth-best team in the Empire 8, would win the NEFC, despite head-to-head results from the year 2012 suggesting otherwise.

I know that 2-16 playoff record is awful.  But I think it's silly to presume that playoff results from 1999 through 2006 matter more in this discussion than 2012 regular-season results in which NEFC's top teams demonstrated that that they ARE good enough to beat SOME teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8, and NJAC.  Not just the bottom-feeders, either, but teams that finished respectably.

There was a point where I genuinely believed that literally EVERY team in the (insert other Eastern conference here) would win the NEFC.  I believe that we are now past that point.

Salve, Bridgewater State, and Framingham State have combined to show this season - through voluntary scheduling like Salve's wins over Union and Montclair and Bridgewater State's win over Springfield, or Framingham State's near-miss against Cortland - that we shouldn't take it for granted that a Utica would just stroll into the NEFC and win it.

Again, since someone will surely misinterpret this, that DOES NOT MEAN that I believe the NEFC is better than any other Eastern conference or that it deserves a Pool C berth.  Read what's actually stated here, folks, not what you "think" I'm saying.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).

I have agreed with and stated this repeatedly, as well as agreeing that in head to head matchups top to bottom the NEFC would get killed (i.e. the teams at the bottom of E8, LL, and NJAC would kill the teams at the bottom of the NEFC).

My point all along in this thread has been that the top three or four NEFC teams are now good enough that an Empire 8 or Liberty League bottom-feeder would not run roughshod over the ENTIRE conference.  Again, this was mostly spurred by Yanks' statement that he believes Utica, the sixth-best team in the Empire 8, would win the NEFC, despite head-to-head results from the year 2012 suggesting otherwise.

I know that 2-16 playoff record is awful.  But I think it's silly to presume that playoff results from 1999 through 2006 matter more in this discussion than 2012 regular-season results in which NEFC's top teams demonstrated that that they ARE good enough to beat SOME teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8, and NJAC.  Not just the bottom-feeders, either, but teams that finished respectably.

There was a point where I genuinely believed that literally EVERY team in the (insert other Eastern conference here) would win the NEFC.  I believe that we are now past that point.
Salve, Bridgewater State, and Framingham State have combined to show this season - through voluntary scheduling like Salve's wins over Union and Montclair and Bridgewater State's win over Springfield, or Framingham State's near-miss against Cortland - that we shouldn't take it for granted that a Utica would just stroll into the NEFC and win it.

Again, since someone will surely misinterpret this, that DOES NOT MEAN that I believe the NEFC is better than any other Eastern conference or that it deserves a Pool C berth.  Read what's actually stated here, folks, not what you "think" I'm saying.

Right now...only Hartwick and Frostburg probably wouldn't win the NEFC in grand fashion.  I still believe that Salisbury, Fisher, Alfred, Ithaca, Buff State, and Utica would all win the NEFC going away...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 20, 2012, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).

I have agreed with and stated this repeatedly, as well as agreeing that in head to head matchups top to bottom the NEFC would get killed (i.e. the teams at the bottom of E8, LL, and NJAC would kill the teams at the bottom of the NEFC).

My point all along in this thread has been that the top three or four NEFC teams are now good enough that an Empire 8 or Liberty League bottom-feeder would not run roughshod over the ENTIRE conference.  Again, this was mostly spurred by Yanks' statement that he believes Utica, the sixth-best team in the Empire 8, would win the NEFC, despite head-to-head results from the year 2012 suggesting otherwise.

I know that 2-16 playoff record is awful.  But I think it's silly to presume that playoff results from 1999 through 2006 matter more in this discussion than 2012 regular-season results in which NEFC's top teams demonstrated that that they ARE good enough to beat SOME teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8, and NJAC.  Not just the bottom-feeders, either, but teams that finished respectably.

There was a point where I genuinely believed that literally EVERY team in the (insert other Eastern conference here) would win the NEFC.  I believe that we are now past that point.
Salve, Bridgewater State, and Framingham State have combined to show this season - through voluntary scheduling like Salve's wins over Union and Montclair and Bridgewater State's win over Springfield, or Framingham State's near-miss against Cortland - that we shouldn't take it for granted that a Utica would just stroll into the NEFC and win it.

Again, since someone will surely misinterpret this, that DOES NOT MEAN that I believe the NEFC is better than any other Eastern conference or that it deserves a Pool C berth.  Read what's actually stated here, folks, not what you "think" I'm saying.

Right now...only Hartwick and Frostburg probably wouldn't win the NEFC in grand fashion.  I still believe that Salisbury, Fisher, Alfred, Ithaca, Buff State, and Utica would all win the NEFC going away...

Kinda like Pat thinking Western CT might make a run at the MASCAC after posting 1 win in the last 3 seasons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 20, 2012, 12:50:52 PM
Speaking of the NESCAC, this dude knows how to represent!!!

http://boston.barstoolsports.com/around-barstool/bates-cross-country-goes-balls-out/#comments
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 12:57:42 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).

I have agreed with and stated this repeatedly, as well as agreeing that in head to head matchups top to bottom the NEFC would get killed (i.e. the teams at the bottom of E8, LL, and NJAC would kill the teams at the bottom of the NEFC).

My point all along in this thread has been that the top three or four NEFC teams are now good enough that an Empire 8 or Liberty League bottom-feeder would not run roughshod over the ENTIRE conference.  Again, this was mostly spurred by Yanks' statement that he believes Utica, the sixth-best team in the Empire 8, would win the NEFC, despite head-to-head results from the year 2012 suggesting otherwise.

I know that 2-16 playoff record is awful.  But I think it's silly to presume that playoff results from 1999 through 2006 matter more in this discussion than 2012 regular-season results in which NEFC's top teams demonstrated that that they ARE good enough to beat SOME teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8, and NJAC.  Not just the bottom-feeders, either, but teams that finished respectably.

There was a point where I genuinely believed that literally EVERY team in the (insert other Eastern conference here) would win the NEFC.  I believe that we are now past that point.

Salve, Bridgewater State, and Framingham State have combined to show this season - through voluntary scheduling like Salve's wins over Union and Montclair and Bridgewater State's win over Springfield, or Framingham State's near-miss against Cortland - that we shouldn't take it for granted that a Utica would just stroll into the NEFC and win it.

Again, since someone will surely misinterpret this, that DOES NOT MEAN that I believe the NEFC is better than any other Eastern conference or that it deserves a Pool C berth.  Read what's actually stated here, folks, not what you "think" I'm saying.

It's not like the past 6 seasons have been hardly any better for the NEFC.  So 0-8 in the playoffs for the NEFC from 1999-2006...but 2-8 from 2007-2012...losing by an average of almost 19 points per game.

I guess it is an improvement...but hardly noteworthy.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 20, 2012, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).

I have agreed with and stated this repeatedly, as well as agreeing that in head to head matchups top to bottom the NEFC would get killed (i.e. the teams at the bottom of E8, LL, and NJAC would kill the teams at the bottom of the NEFC).

My point all along in this thread has been that the top three or four NEFC teams are now good enough that an Empire 8 or Liberty League bottom-feeder would not run roughshod over the ENTIRE conference.  Again, this was mostly spurred by Yanks' statement that he believes Utica, the sixth-best team in the Empire 8, would win the NEFC, despite head-to-head results from the year 2012 suggesting otherwise.

I know that 2-16 playoff record is awful.  But I think it's silly to presume that playoff results from 1999 through 2006 matter more in this discussion than 2012 regular-season results in which NEFC's top teams demonstrated that that they ARE good enough to beat SOME teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8, and NJAC.  Not just the bottom-feeders, either, but teams that finished respectably.

There was a point where I genuinely believed that literally EVERY team in the (insert other Eastern conference here) would win the NEFC.  I believe that we are now past that point.
Salve, Bridgewater State, and Framingham State have combined to show this season - through voluntary scheduling like Salve's wins over Union and Montclair and Bridgewater State's win over Springfield, or Framingham State's near-miss against Cortland - that we shouldn't take it for granted that a Utica would just stroll into the NEFC and win it.

Again, since someone will surely misinterpret this, that DOES NOT MEAN that I believe the NEFC is better than any other Eastern conference or that it deserves a Pool C berth.  Read what's actually stated here, folks, not what you "think" I'm saying.

Right now...only Hartwick and Frostburg probably wouldn't win the NEFC in grand fashion.  I still believe that Salisbury, Fisher, Alfred, Ithaca, Buff State, and Utica would all win the NEFC going away...

Kinda like Pat thinking Western CT might make a run at the MASCAC after posting 1 win in the last 3 seasons.

Make a run, sure, and I'd expect them to finish something like 8-2 because of the overall change in competition.  However, scores from this year don't suggest that 2012 Western Connecticut would have won the MASCAC if it had existed this season.  I hate playing comparative scores with so little data, and Western Connecticut produced a couple of pretty good efforts this year (30-24 loss to Rowan and the win over Montclair State) that suggest on their "best" day they might have beaten BSU and FSU, but:

a) they lost to Cortland 72-14.  Framingham State lost 20-19.

b) they lost to Widener 63-17 in a game far less competitive than Bridgewater State's 44-14 playoff loss. 

To be sure, there are a plethora of factors that go into determining a game's final score and games played at the beginning of the season are not the same as those played at the end.  But given 2012 results, it appears that both Bridgewater State and Framingham State were qualitatively better than Western Connecticut this season.  Certainty, of course not.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 20, 2012, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 20, 2012, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 11:54:32 AM
I still think that the middle teams in the top 4 East conferences would consistently finish 9-1 playing an NEFC schedule (save perhaps Salve's).

I have agreed with and stated this repeatedly, as well as agreeing that in head to head matchups top to bottom the NEFC would get killed (i.e. the teams at the bottom of E8, LL, and NJAC would kill the teams at the bottom of the NEFC).

My point all along in this thread has been that the top three or four NEFC teams are now good enough that an Empire 8 or Liberty League bottom-feeder would not run roughshod over the ENTIRE conference.  Again, this was mostly spurred by Yanks' statement that he believes Utica, the sixth-best team in the Empire 8, would win the NEFC, despite head-to-head results from the year 2012 suggesting otherwise.

I know that 2-16 playoff record is awful.  But I think it's silly to presume that playoff results from 1999 through 2006 matter more in this discussion than 2012 regular-season results in which NEFC's top teams demonstrated that that they ARE good enough to beat SOME teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8, and NJAC.  Not just the bottom-feeders, either, but teams that finished respectably.

There was a point where I genuinely believed that literally EVERY team in the (insert other Eastern conference here) would win the NEFC.  I believe that we are now past that point.
Salve, Bridgewater State, and Framingham State have combined to show this season - through voluntary scheduling like Salve's wins over Union and Montclair and Bridgewater State's win over Springfield, or Framingham State's near-miss against Cortland - that we shouldn't take it for granted that a Utica would just stroll into the NEFC and win it.

Again, since someone will surely misinterpret this, that DOES NOT MEAN that I believe the NEFC is better than any other Eastern conference or that it deserves a Pool C berth.  Read what's actually stated here, folks, not what you "think" I'm saying.

Right now...only Hartwick and Frostburg probably wouldn't win the NEFC in grand fashion.  I still believe that Salisbury, Fisher, Alfred, Ithaca, Buff State, and Utica would all win the NEFC going away...

Kinda like Pat thinking Western CT might make a run at the MASCAC after posting 1 win in the last 3 seasons.

Make a run, sure, and I'd expect them to finish something like 8-2 because of the overall change in competition.  However, scores from this year don't suggest that 2012 Western Connecticut would have won the MASCAC if it had existed this season.  I hate playing comparative scores with so little data, and Western Connecticut produced a couple of pretty good efforts this year (30-24 loss to Rowan and the win over Montclair State) that suggest on their "best" day they might have beaten BSU and FSU, but:

a) they lost to Cortland 72-14.  Framingham State lost 20-19.

b) they lost to Widener 63-17 in a game far less competitive than Bridgewater State's 44-14 playoff loss. 

To be sure, there are a plethora of factors that go into determining a game's final score and games played at the beginning of the season are not the same as those played at the end.  But given 2012 results, it appears that both Bridgewater State and Framingham State were qualitatively better than Western Connecticut this season.  Certainty, of course not.

You also have to take into account that Western CT is really good at losing and Bridgewater is not used to losing.  I'm sure Western CT knows how to shut it down when things don't go their way where Bridgewater fought tooth and nail until the bitter end.  Not all blowouts are created equally.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 01:45:12 PM
All-time records going back more than four years are pretty much useless, unless you've got some other reason to believe the variables on both sides haven't changed. Maybe they haven't, but to toss out the 2-16 number as sort of a trump card misses the whole point.

Honestly, in my view, every team in the E8 but Salisbury had rather large issues this season.

Ithaca was inconsistent offensively and horrid in the red zone on both sides of the ball.

Utica gave up 40+ points five times this season.

Buff State played to the level of their opponents every single week. 

Alfred had no healthy players by the end of the season.

(I'll let the pages of complaints Fisher guys made about their offense all season long stand on their own merit)

I skipped FSU and the Wick, since those seem to be the teams everyone agrees would struggle already

We're a long way from 2007, where the third place E8 team could hang with Mount Union for a half. There was a ton of mediocrity in the conference, and it is not just "teams beating up on each other."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
Bombers, here is your chance to play in this debate.  Start shooting.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
Bombers, here is your chance to play in this debate.  Start shooting.

Wasn't my last post a decent shot? ;)

As I said, I think the E8 is way down this season, and other than Salisbury, no team was overly impressive this year. Would they be better in the NEFC? Of course. But no, I don't think the Utica/Ithaca/Buff State group, for example, would run away with it. I think we're locked in our own echo chamber. The E8 is good, so even when those teams lose, it's just good teams beating up each other. That's too flippant a dismissal of the NEFC, IMHO.

The ECFC on the other hand...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 02:46:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
Bombers, here is your chance to play in this debate.  Start shooting.

Wasn't my last post a decent shot? ;)

As I said, I think the E8 is way down this season, and other than Salisbury, no team was overly impressive this year. Would they be better in the NEFC? Of course. But no, I don't think the Utica/Ithaca/Buff State group, for example, would run away with it. I think we're locked in our own echo chamber. The E8 is good, so even when those teams lose, it's just good teams beating up each other. That's too flippant a dismissal of the NEFC, IMHO.

The ECFC on the other hand...

Maybe not 2007...but 2011 was a good year when you have two teams from the E8 making the NCAA quarterfinals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 02:47:30 PM
The 2-16 number is interesting.  As you point out 79, that isn't really representative of the current level of NEFC play.  We all know they were at ECFC level for years, but now?  And secondly, how many of those 18 games did the NEFC host?  The other Eastern conferences wouldn't fair well going to a #1 or #2 seed year after year.  However, PC's point of how the winner and teams that didn't blow the NEFC out fared the following week is interesting.  That's a bad sign for the Red Dragons this week...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 02:55:57 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 01:45:12 PM
All-time records going back more than four years are pretty much useless, unless you've got some other reason to believe the variables on both sides haven't changed. Maybe they haven't, but to toss out the 2-16 number as sort of a trump card misses the whole point.

Honestly, in my view, every team in the E8 but Salisbury had rather large issues this season.

Ithaca was inconsistent offensively and horrid in the red zone on both sides of the ball.

Utica gave up 40+ points five times this season.

Buff State played to the level of their opponents every single week. 

Alfred had no healthy players by the end of the season.

(I'll let the pages of complaints Fisher guys made about their offense all season long stand on their own merit)

I skipped FSU and the Wick, since those seem to be the teams everyone agrees would struggle already

We're a long way from 2007, where the third place E8 team could hang with Mount Union for a half. There was a ton of mediocrity in the conference, and it is not just "teams beating up on each other."

- 2-16 in the playoffs all-time

- 0-8 in the playoffs from 1999-2006

- 2-8 from 2007-2012...losing by an average of almost 19 points per game

- 0-5 in the last 4 years (2009-2012)...losing by an average of just under 20 points per game.

1999 doesn't really factor in to today's numbers...but it does show remarkable consistency that the NEFC has been completely out classed in the NCAA's in nearly every game they have played.



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 02:46:51 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
Bombers, here is your chance to play in this debate.  Start shooting.

Wasn't my last post a decent shot? ;)

As I said, I think the E8 is way down this season, and other than Salisbury, no team was overly impressive this year. Would they be better in the NEFC? Of course. But no, I don't think the Utica/Ithaca/Buff State group, for example, would run away with it. I think we're locked in our own echo chamber. The E8 is good, so even when those teams lose, it's just good teams beating up each other. That's too flippant a dismissal of the NEFC, IMHO.

The ECFC on the other hand...

Maybe not 2007...but 2011 was a good year when you have two teams from the E8 making the NCAA quarterfinals.

Yeah but even then you had flawed middle of the pack teams....Springfield (32.4) and Utica (38.0) were horrid defensively. Ithaca's offense was even worse than it was this season. These teams were not running away with the NEFC in 2011
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 03:06:05 PM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 20, 2012, 02:55:57 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 01:45:12 PM
All-time records going back more than four years are pretty much useless, unless you've got some other reason to believe the variables on both sides haven't changed. Maybe they haven't, but to toss out the 2-16 number as sort of a trump card misses the whole point.

Honestly, in my view, every team in the E8 but Salisbury had rather large issues this season.

Ithaca was inconsistent offensively and horrid in the red zone on both sides of the ball.

Utica gave up 40+ points five times this season.

Buff State played to the level of their opponents every single week. 

Alfred had no healthy players by the end of the season.

(I'll let the pages of complaints Fisher guys made about their offense all season long stand on their own merit)

I skipped FSU and the Wick, since those seem to be the teams everyone agrees would struggle already

We're a long way from 2007, where the third place E8 team could hang with Mount Union for a half. There was a ton of mediocrity in the conference, and it is not just "teams beating up on each other."

- 2-16 in the playoffs all-time

- 0-8 in the playoffs from 1999-2006

- 2-8 from 2007-2012...losing by an average of almost 19 points per game

- 0-5 in the last 4 years (2009-2012)...losing by an average of just under 20 points per game.

1999 doesn't really factor in to today's numbers...but it does show remarkable consistency that the NEFC has been completely out classed in the NCAA's in nearly every game they have played.

It's not that I think the NEFC is very good. It's that I think you're overrating the strength of these middle of the pack E8 teams, most of whom are not anything close to NCAA caliber.

You're taking the NEFC's performance in the playoffs against great teams, and using it as a basis of comparison to what, a bunch of E8 teams that weren't anywhere near as good as those NCAA teams? What does that prove?

Would I bet on the NEFC teams to win in the playoffs? Of course not. But we're not talking about what playoff-caliber teams would do in the NEFC. We're talking about Utica, Ithaca, and Buff State, none of whom have even had an active player make an NCAA game

I guess I don't really think that the stats you cite prove what you want them to.

So Cortland State beats Endicott in blowout fashion in 2010. This relates to how the 2012 Bombers/Pioneers/Bengals would fair in the NEFC how?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 03:16:40 PM
Focusing on ONLY the playoff games, Yanks, leaves out some other data that is valuable to the discussion.  You're focused strictly on the fact that NEFC champs can't beat champs from the top Eastern leagues, a point that I've already conceded.  As AUKaz said, the numbers would look bad for almost every conference if their champion was sent to the #1/2 seed in the first round every year.  There is other information, however, that tells us more about the NEFC's top teams relative to the "middle" of other Eastern conferences:

Salve Regina 17, Union 14
Bridgewater State 21, Springfield 17
Salve Regina 16, Montclair State 7
Cortland State 20, Framingham State 19
Widener 44, Bridgewater State 14

So in five 2012 games, the NEFC's top three teams combined to defeat the #2 team in the Liberty League, the #3 team in the Liberty League, the #3 or #4 team in the NJAC (Montclair beat Kean but finished half a game behind because of the canceled Kean-Rowan game), lose by one point to the NJAC champion, and get blown out by the MAC champion.  It doesn't entirely undo the stench of the last decade, but the onfield results suggest that in the most recent season - the one that seems most germane to what's likely to happen moving forward - the top of the NEFC was capable of beating middle-of-the-pack Eastern teams.  This isn't a question, it's a fact: two different NEFC teams combined for three victories over three different teams that finished in the top half of two different Eastern conferences, whatever the extenuating circumstances for said teams.  The only blowout loss on that list came at the hands of Widener, who has blown out a bunch of teams this season, and even that game was not a total whitewash (Bridgewater scored to make it 28-14 with six minutes to play).

One step down, NEFC #4 Endicott blew out ECFC "co-champ" Castleton State 66-14.  That doesn't mean anything in terms of the NEFC vs. "Top Eastern Leagues" comparison, but it does hammer home the point that the top of the NEFC is way, way, way better than the top of the ECFC and that the two shouldn't be lumped together in any vitriolic discussion of who's getting killed in the playoffs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 20, 2012, 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 03:16:40 PM
Focusing on ONLY the playoff games, Yanks, leaves out some other data that is valuable to the discussion. 

This is probably the salient point to the discussion of the conferences as a whole
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2012, 03:26:29 PM
All of this kind of works back around to the results of the ERFP (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5311.msg1465813#msg1465813) whereby the top NEFC teams may crack the top 10, but rarely and only in one of the bottom slots.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2012, 05:09:08 PM
I can't believe we are back to this discussion!  ;). I'm too tired to get involved again.  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 20, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Honestly dlip thinks it is a good discussion, although he will sit his ass on the sidelines this time. Some very good points have been made on both sides. Although dlip still is sticking to his guns hardcore regarding the pool c bid deal, he feels he has gained some insight and perspective on this topic.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 20, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Honestly dlip thinks it is a good discussion, although he will sit his ass on the sidelines this time. Some very good points have been made on both sides. Although dlip still is sticking to his guns hardcore regarding the pool c bid deal, he feels he has gained some insight and perspective on this topic.

I agree with you in the Pool C discussion. I don't think there's enough evidence to show that NEFC deserves a SECOND playof entrant. I do think there is enough evidence to dismiss the argument that virtually any middling team (ie Utica) from the NJAC, LL, or E8 would SWEEP the NEFC without a fight from the aforementioned three teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 20, 2012, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 20, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Honestly dlip thinks it is a good discussion, although he will sit his ass on the sidelines this time. Some very good points have been made on both sides. Although dlip still is sticking to his guns hardcore regarding the pool c bid deal, he feels he has gained some insight and perspective on this topic.

I agree with you in the Pool C discussion. I don't think there's enough evidence to show that NEFC deserves a SECOND playof entrant. I do think there is enough evidence to dismiss the argument that virtually any middling team (ie Utica) from the NJAC, LL, or E8 would SWEEP the NEFC without a fight from the aforementioned three teams.

I said it earlier, so I'll mention it again since it fits here...BWater was not a bad team...
Without stirring the pot much, I would go out on a limb to say they would be middle of the pack in the MAC...

I think this year they would beat:
Misericordia
Kings
FDU
maybe Stevenson
On a really good day possibly Leb Val
and lose to
Albright
Lyco
Del Val
And they already lost to WU

Would they get a pool C in the MAC...um no
This year, would Misericordia, FDU, Kings or Stevenson run the table in the NEFC...no way in hell...
But here's the thing...they got one, and played their hearts out to the final whistle, and that's all that should matter.   The players and the school's administration itself is not really the issue (would you not try to find a way to get a playoff bid?),...it's the selection process/methodology and the NCAA criteria that create scenarios where worthy teams get left out...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 20, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Honestly dlip thinks it is a good discussion, although he will sit his ass on the sidelines this time. Some very good points have been made on both sides. Although dlip still is sticking to his guns hardcore regarding the pool c bid deal, he feels he has gained some insight and perspective on this topic.

I agree with you in the Pool C discussion. I don't think there's enough evidence to show that NEFC deserves a SECOND playof entrant. I do think there is enough evidence to dismiss the argument that virtually any middling team (ie Utica) from the NJAC, LL, or E8 would SWEEP the NEFC without a fight from the aforementioned three teams.

That was kind of the whole point...the Pool C argument.  But I will say this...if you don't think Utica, if they all of a sudden were part of the NEFC tomorrow, wouldn't be the overwhelming favorite to win the league, then you would be about the only one. 

And if you look back...I never brought up the NJAC, MAC, or LL.  Just the E8.  I stand by my beliefs that Salisbury through Utica would be the overwhelming favorite if they played in the NEFC.  BMAN is more familiar with the MAC...so I tend to believe what he states above.  LD and dlip could probably go into better details on the LL.  Others that follow the NJAC can speak to their mid-level teams (based on record) for this year and how they stack up.

Again...and dlip has said something to this effect previously...I wish the coaches and players of the NEFC no ill will.  I know they work extremely hard to compete on the field...for nothing more than the love of the game, like everyone else.  I just don't like what the ECFC and now the MASCAC (who is almost exclusively made up of NEFC schools) did to get another AQ...plain and simple.  LD said something a few posts back...if they are willing to give an undeserving NEFC school a Pool C now, it is only a matter of time before all three of these leagues get solid looks for Pool C bids, as the NCAA committee has proven itself to be lazy in many instances when it comes to regional ranking and Pool C choices (not always...as Fisher's Pool C selection last year showed some balls, and it was the right call).  At some point though, you are going to have 3 different teams from the NEFC, ECFC, and the MASCAC all finishing with 9-1 type records at the same time where none of them won their conference champion, and none of them playing a difficult non-conference schedule (staying in-house against NEFC, ECFC, and MASCAC schools).  Some lazy NCAA regional ranking system will probably have 5 or 6 of these teams (the 3 conference champs and the 3 one loss teams) in their top 10, while other stronger conferences beat the hell out of each other all while playing a difficult non-conference schedule.  I just don't think it's right.

Understand...I am not necessarily arguing that a 2nd place or 3rd place team from the E8, LL, NJAC, or MAC deserved to get a Pool C nod this year.  But there were several teams throughout the nation that absolutely deserved it more than Bridgewater State did. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 21, 2012, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 20, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 20, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Honestly dlip thinks it is a good discussion, although he will sit his ass on the sidelines this time. Some very good points have been made on both sides. Although dlip still is sticking to his guns hardcore regarding the pool c bid deal, he feels he has gained some insight and perspective on this topic.

I agree with you in the Pool C discussion. I don't think there's enough evidence to show that NEFC deserves a SECOND playof entrant. I do think there is enough evidence to dismiss the argument that virtually any middling team (ie Utica) from the NJAC, LL, or E8 would SWEEP the NEFC without a fight from the aforementioned three teams.

That was kind of the whole point...the Pool C argument.  But I will say this...if you don't think Utica, if they all of a sudden were part of the NEFC tomorrow, wouldn't be the overwhelming favorite to win the league, then you would be about the only one. 


Yanks, I think you've moved the posts here.  ETP didn't think that it was a forgone conclussion that the middle-of-the-pack teams in the 4 stronger eastern conferences would sweep the NEFC, however I think he would agree that someone like Utica would be a favorite to get the AQ though perhaps not overwhelmingly.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 09:53:06 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
But I will say this...if you don't think Utica, if they all of a sudden were part of the NEFC tomorrow, wouldn't be the overwhelming favorite to win the league, then you would be about the only one. 

No, I don't think Utica would be the overwhelming favorite to win the league, and furthermore I don't think I'd be alone in that opinion, although I'll leave it to the other fine folks on this board to weigh in.  I think they'd be a contender, certainly, but the overwhelming favorite?  No.

This year after Salve opened the season with wins over Union and Montclair, I think most of us took it for granted that they would cruise to the NEFC title.  Instead they lost two NEFC games (one of those admittedly being the conference title game), again after beating teams that would go on to finish in the upper echelon of their respective conferences.

The great thing about this debate is that we don't KNOW for certain.  I think there's enough data to support my side.  You think otherwise.  We are at an impasse for now.

Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
And if you look back...I never brought up the NJAC, MAC, or LL.  Just the E8.  I stand by my beliefs that Salisbury through Utica would be the overwhelming favorite if they played in the NEFC. 

Understood.  I have referenced the other conferences because there are actual 2012 data points comparing NEFC to those conferences, and unfortunately there were no matchups between NEFC and Empie 8 teams this year.  Since we do have some crossover between the LL and E8 and can evaluate their strength relative to one another (the E8 is admittedly the stronger of the two), it still seems relevant to mention NEFC vs. LL/NJAC as a way to compare the NEFC to "other conferences" since you are so hung up on the "NEFC teams don't ever play anyone besides each other" thing.

Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
I just don't like what the ECFC and now the MASCAC (who is almost exclusively made up of NEFC schools) did to get another AQ...plain and simple. 

I agree, but they've been doing the rest of D-3 a favor for the last decade by NOT breaking apart and only taking one AQ.  Who are we to decide whether it's cool for them to split up and take their second AQ as allowed by the rules?

Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
At some point though, you are going to have 3 different teams from the NEFC, ECFC, and the MASCAC all finishing with 9-1 type records at the same time where none of them won their conference champion, and none of them playing a difficult non-conference schedule (staying in-house against NEFC, ECFC, and MASCAC schools).  Some lazy NCAA regional ranking system will probably have 5 or 6 of these teams (the 3 conference champs and the 3 one loss teams) in their top 10, while other stronger conferences beat the hell out of each other all while playing a difficult non-conference schedule.

I agree with your fears that a lazy NCAA regional ranking system will someday put a 9-1 NEFC or MASCAC runner up into the rankings that hasn't played outside the league(s), which is more or less what we did see this year with the ridiculous four-teams-from-the-NEFC regional ranking near the end of the season.  I do, again, want to make the distinction between the NEFC and ECFC, because the gap between the two is just as large as the E8-NEFC gap if not larger.  Again, NEFC #4 Endicott beat ECFC co-champ Castleton State 66-14.

However, I think you're overrating some of the other Eastern conferences "beating the hell out of each other" much the same way Bombers has made this point a few times in this discussion.  This isn't the SEC, even the "power" Eastern conferences have plenty of flawed teams, and if a particular Eastern team is a threat to make a splash in the playoffs against top-notch competition...they'll still survive that "beating the hell out of each other" and emerge somehow.

Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
Understand...I am not necessarily arguing that a 2nd place or 3rd place team from the E8, LL, NJAC, or MAC deserved to get a Pool C nod this year.  But there were several teams throughout the nation that absolutely deserved it more than Bridgewater State did.

This, again, I agree with.  Never disputed that point.  Only point I've been arguing is that you think the top six Empire 8 teams would be overwhelming favorites in the NEFC.  They'd all be contenders, for certain, but I don't think your middling teams are guaranteed to beat the NEFC champs so easily.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
You win...

New pre-season East Region Conference Power Rankings for 2013 as follows:

1) NEFC
2) ECFC
3) MASCAC
4) NESCAC (why not?)
5) Liberty League
6) MAC
7) NJAC
8) Empire 8
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
You win...

New pre-season East Region Conference Power Rankings for 2013 as follows:

1) NEFC
2) ECFC
3) MASCAC
4) NESCAC (why not?)
5) Liberty League
6) MAC
7) NJAC
8) Empire 8

What is it with some of you guys (not all, but this is the second time I've been confronted with this particular response of "Fine, the NEFC is the best!") that makes it so hard to see a "happy medium" viewpoint?  It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.  I have never said once that the NEFC is better than these respective leagues, and my post includes a direct quote stating that the Empire 8 is stronger than the Liberty League.

Honestly, do we have to resort to the eight-year-old's attitude of "OK, you disagree?  Fine you win!  I'm going to take my ball and go home!" instead of finding that middle ground?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 21, 2012, 11:40:18 AM
Tartan,
I think that this discussion has been beaten worse than a last place horse at Santa Anita.
The agree to disagree mantra may have to come into play here...
I see ppl digging in heels.
:o
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2012, 11:45:12 AM
This got way out of hand.  The original context was that NEFC didn't deserve a Pool C bid.  We've concluded that the top tier of the NEFC would compete in the other conferences, but likely would be middle to mid-upper of the pack.  Unfortunately, they were rewarded an at-large bid.  Mid-tier teams in the other conferences would likely be upper tier in the NEFC but it would be competitive with the NEFC's best.  Case-closed.

If this year was a few years down the road with NEFC and MASCAC getting AQs, it's highly likely that 3 teams would have gotten in.  Salve would win the conference, Framingham would win the conference, and Bridgewater would still get a Pool C.  This is the fear of the future as we could see 3 AQ's(with ECFC included) and a potential 4-6 teams getting the nod under the right circumstances.  Everyone knows the ECFC is the bottom of the barrel, the NEFC is much further above it, and then a a decent amount higher are the other 4 conferences. 

No need to debate this.  It's all science.  I have already drafted a 573 page thesis to support this.  Go on with the chlorophyll.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 21, 2012, 11:51:49 AM
here is the solution....
1 super conference....

I'll call it the NEFCECFCMASCACLibertyMACNJACEmpire8 League

One AQ, and 2 pool Cs...let the battle begin ::)

Note no NESCAC...sorry guys
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 12:03:22 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2012, 11:45:12 AM
This got way out of hand.  The original context was that NEFC didn't deserve a Pool C bid.  We've concluded that the top tier of the NEFC would compete in the other conferences, but likely would be middle to mid-upper of the pack.  Unfortunately, they were rewarded an at-large bid.  Mid-tier teams in the other conferences would likely be upper tier in the NEFC but it would be competitive with the NEFC's best.  Case-closed.

If this year was a few years down the road with NEFC and MASCAC getting AQs, it's highly likely that 3 teams would have gotten in.  Salve would win the conference, Framingham would win the conference, and Bridgewater would still get a Pool C.  This is the fear of the future as we could see 3 AQ's(with ECFC included) and a potential 4-6 teams getting the nod under the right circumstances.  Everyone knows the ECFC is the bottom of the barrel, the NEFC is much further above it, and then a a decent amount higher are the other 4 conferences. 

No need to debate this.  It's all science.  I have already drafted a 573 page thesis to support this.  Go on with the chlorophyll.

Best post yet in the thread.

This is change I can believe in.  Or something.  +K.

LewDogg for President.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 12:17:48 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Yanks 99 on November 21, 2012, 11:26:23 AM
You win...

New pre-season East Region Conference Power Rankings for 2013 as follows:

1) NEFC
2) ECFC
3) MASCAC
4) NESCAC (why not?)
5) Liberty League
6) MAC
7) NJAC
8) Empire 8

What is it with some of you guys (not all, but this is the second time I've been confronted with this particular response of "Fine, the NEFC is the best!") that makes it so hard to see a "happy medium" viewpoint?  It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.  I have never said once that the NEFC is better than these respective leagues, and my post includes a direct quote stating that the Empire 8 is stronger than the Liberty League.

Honestly, do we have to resort to the eight-year-old's attitude of "OK, you disagree?  Fine you win!  I'm going to take my ball and go home!" instead of finding that middle ground?

Dude...relax...it was said in jest.  Do you think I am writing this stuff in anger?  That my Thanksgiving is now ruined because someone thinks that Utica wouldn't run through the NEFC?

Do you really need me to validate your sentiment that the NEFC is better than most people think?  Seriously...is it required that we need to find a middle ground on this issue?  You have your opinion...I have mine...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 12:49:56 PM
Thanksgiving is only ruined if the turkey is dry or the sweet potatoes are burned.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HSCTiger74 on November 21, 2012, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 12:49:56 PM
Thanksgiving is only ruined if the turkey is dry or the sweet potatoes are burned.

Or someone insists on serving those gawdawful little pearl onions in cream sauce.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 21, 2012, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on November 21, 2012, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2012, 12:49:56 PM
Thanksgiving is only ruined if the turkey is dry or the sweet potatoes are burned.

Or someone insists on serving those gawdawful little pearl onions in cream sauce.

Then don't come here, I love those little onions in cream sauce.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 21, 2012, 03:12:45 PM
All

I have enjoyed this board immensely the last week or so...thank you

Have a happy Thanksgiving and safe travels...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 21, 2012, 03:52:52 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2012, 11:45:12 AM
If this year was a few years down the road with NEFC and MASCAC getting AQs, it's highly likely that 3 teams would have gotten in.  Salve would win the conference, Framingham would win the conference, and Bridgewater would still get a Pool C.

Not to continue quibbling since I too would dislike seeing such a scenario, but when the MASCAC gets their AQ won't that take away a Pool C slot?  And if BSU was the last team in, then they would actually be left out with one less at-large invite.  Which will make a Pool C from one of those 3 conferences even worse if it comes to pass (and the quality of play hasn't improved).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 22, 2012, 08:43:35 AM
happy thanksgiving to all my east region friends.  big games this weekend for the east.  hobart/wittenberg and cortland/wesley give the east a chance to prove they can compete with the other regions.  the salisbury/widener game is for the east championship so to speak, well unless hobart and 1 of the other 3 make it to the stagg then that would be the east championship.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2012, 09:32:40 AM
Dlip would like to wish all the east region posters and their families a wonderful, safe, and healthy Thanksgiving! Dlip is very thankful for many things, health, family, friends, and also discussing and learning more about D3 football with all of you.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fulbakdad on November 22, 2012, 09:52:58 AM
I've been quietly sitting back enjoying someone else getting beat up by saying any teams from the NEFC are good.
:)

Happy Thanksgiving from New Hampshire!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 22, 2012, 10:13:31 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 22, 2012, 09:32:40 AM
Dlip would like to wish all the east region posters and their families a wonderful, safe, and healthy Thanksgiving! Dlip is very thankful for many things, health, family, friends, and also discussing and learning more about D3 football with all of you.

I would say this again, but dlip says it best. Happy Thanksgiving all!

Special thanks goes to those who devote a good part of their lives to covering D3 (Pat, Keith, etc) and creating these sites when they have to have real day jobs to cover real-life expenses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 23, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
My guaranteed to be wrong picks:

Cortland 10
Wesley 38

Wittenberg 21
Hobart 31

Salisbury 28
Widener 31

(Originally I had picked Salisbury but like I said elsewhere, I have not been altogether impressed. I think Widener has the ability to score on Salisbury
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:09:56 PM
The ILB for Hobart #45...I love the way he plays, he's very intense, and he's all over the field.  However, I can NOT stand the way he handles himself.  I know you need to get excited to play with that kind of intensity, but he looks like a punk.  Jumping up and down when a guy gets hurt, getting in everyone on the other team's face when you make a play.  Go celebrate with your team and act like you've been there before dude.  But still play like a wild man.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:11:21 PM
And it looks like Cortland showed up to play today.  Down 14-0 2 mins in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 24, 2012, 12:12:33 PM
OMG!  2 minutes into the game, the Wesley offense has yet to see the field and they lead 14-0!  A pick-6 and a fumble return for a TD.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:14:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 24, 2012, 12:12:33 PM
OMG!  2 minutes into the game, the Wesley offense has yet to see the field and they lead 14-0!  A pick-6 and a fumble return for a TD.

The Cortland St. Jets?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:16:29 PM
Hobart punting, awful snap, great scoop by the punter, but he muffed the kick.  Wittenberg 1st and 10 on the Hobart 20.

Result = Missed FG

0-0

But a penalty on 'Bart.  Re-kick is good.

3-0 Wittenberg

Hobart blocks Wittenberg's punt from their own endzone.  First and goal Hobart from the 9.

And Webb fumbles the handoff.  Wittenberg recovers.  Hobart is the better team here by far but is killing themselves so far.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2012, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:16:29 PM
Hobart punting, awful snap, great scoop by the punter, but he muffed the kick.  Wittenberg 1st and 10 on the Hobart 20.

Result = Missed FG

0-0

But a penalty on 'Bart.  Re-kick is good.

3-0 Wittenberg

Hobart blocks Wittenberg's punt from their own endzone.  First and goal Hobart from the 9.

And Webb fumbles the handoff.  Wittenberg recovers.  Hobart is the better team here by far but is killing themselves so far.

Hobart's defense is very tough and aggressive, but their offense needs to settle down.

Anyone else bothered by these announcers?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:44:47 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 24, 2012, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:16:29 PM
Hobart punting, awful snap, great scoop by the punter, but he muffed the kick.  Wittenberg 1st and 10 on the Hobart 20.

Result = Missed FG

0-0

But a penalty on 'Bart.  Re-kick is good.

3-0 Wittenberg

Hobart blocks Wittenberg's punt from their own endzone.  First and goal Hobart from the 9.

And Webb fumbles the handoff.  Wittenberg recovers.  Hobart is the better team here by far but is killing themselves so far.

Hobart's defense is very tough and aggressive, but their offense needs to settle down.

Anyone else bothered by these announcers?

It's a cross between Frank and Ryan Seacrest.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Great scramble and run by Strang for a 30 yd TD.  7-3 Hobart.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 24, 2012, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Great scramble and run by Strang for a 30 yd TD.  7-3 Hobart.

Is there a free way to watch the Hobart game? Looks like they want $.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 24, 2012, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 24, 2012, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Great scramble and run by Strang for a 30 yd TD.  7-3 Hobart.

Is there a free way to watch the Hobart game? Looks like they want $.

It should be free.  I went to the main d3football.com page and clicked on scoreboard, there is then a link next to the games ("V") for video.  Click on that link and you should be able to get it from there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:09:36 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 24, 2012, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: ECoastFootball on November 24, 2012, 01:01:08 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 24, 2012, 12:48:09 PM
Great scramble and run by Strang for a 30 yd TD.  7-3 Hobart.

Is there a free way to watch the Hobart game? Looks like they want $.

It should be free.  I went to the main d3football.com page and clicked on scoreboard, there is then a link next to the games ("V") for video.  Click on that link and you should be able to get it from there.

They wanted you to pay to watch the Buff State-Hobart basketball game last Tuesday night at Hobart. They sell a season pass or if you don't buy that you have to buy a one day pass to watch the football game I believe.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
I'm watching it for free. I am not sure the policy on charging for the playoff games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:14:19 PM
Nick Strang with a 30 yard touchdown run and the Statesmen go up 7-3.

Cortland now trails 21-6 with 1"11 left in the 1st half. Doesn't look good for the Red Dragons.

Salisbury falls behind Widener 14-0 late in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
I'm watching it for free. I am not sure the policy on charging for the playoff games.

I stand corrected. I was watching at my office on Tuesday where I have high speed internet, and stayed late specifically to watch the Buff State-Hobart hoops game. But didn't because I won't pay to watch it. Today I'm home where I only have dial up service and can't get streaming video with that, so I didn't even try to pull up a video.  They charge for a regular season BB game and give you the NCAA football game for free. Glad they are, but that's seems strange.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 24, 2012, 01:21:40 PM
Salisbury making a ton of mistakes...turnovers and critical penalties...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:23:13 PM
It may be NCAA policy that video needs to be free in the playoffs. Whereas regular season is left up to the discretion of the schools and/or conference.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dragondad on November 24, 2012, 01:29:14 PM
Cortland gave up a defensive score (pick 6 and a fumble return) on each of its first two possessions. Since than pretty even.  Cortland D playing well. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:40:46 PM
Outside of 2 long runs Salisbury's offense has done very little. Did the Salisbury punter really just have an 84 yard punt?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:43:05 PM
Hobart scores on a 1 yard plunge to go up 14-3 but Wittenberg only needs 6 plays to make it 14-10. Big play was a 33 yard pass to the Hobart 3 yard line from Florence to Cunningham. Witt ran it in on the next play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:47:13 PM
Cortland gives up another touchdown on the 1st series of the 2nd half. 78 yard Td pass as Wesley scores in 3 plays. Now 28-6.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:55:50 PM
If Salisbury were to come back in this game, a great deal would be owed to the punter, who is having a great day pinning Widener back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Hobart scores on a 12 yard run by Kelly Olney and the Statesmen go up 21-10 late in the 3rd quarter. 4th quarter now underway.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:05:03 PM
Salisbury blocks another Field Goal, Widener still up 14-0 in the 4th. Special teams have done a lot of good for the gulls in this game. Penalties and turnovers, yes, have done a lot to them but offensively they haven't really done anything.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:08:59 PM
82 yard touchdown pass in the 4th by Widener will probably put the nail in the coffin, 21-0 Widener.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 24, 2012, 02:16:58 PM
Congrats to Widener. Dlip didn't see this one turning out this way but again, he don't know shiaaaaat! Bart looking good baby!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:18:54 PM
Outside of the 41 yard run, Salisbury has 50 rushing attempts for 99 yards. Wow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:20:07 PM
On the flip side, Hobart goes up 35-10 and has 51 rushing attempts for 273 yards. Nice pound it out game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:24:50 PM
Now it looks like the gulls are losing their cool a little bit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:25:03 PM
Cortland getting pummeled now as they are down 49-6. Bad day for the Red Dragons. Figured they were up against it but didn't think it would be a monkey stomp.

Make that 56-6. Wesley scoring at will now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:26:19 PM
There's going to be discussion of Salisbury being on the bad end of a lot of officiating, which is true. However, I think this game was lost outside of that... That lack of ability to get the run going seems to be the true story.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:31:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:26:19 PM
There's going to be discussion of Salisbury being on the bad end of a lot of officiating, which is true. However, I think this game was lost outside of that... That lack of ability to get the run going seems to be the true story.

Don't think anybody saw Widener pitching a shutout. ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:33:14 PM
Final now at Hobart as the Statesmen win 35-10. Somewhere the Rev. is smiling. ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2012, 02:38:54 PM
Hobart grinds out a 35-10 Total Team win. This is the deepest and most balanced team in the history of the program. The line play was awesome on both sides of the ball. Go Elmhust,  home games are preferred :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 02:43:05 PM
Salisbury does score, and get an onside kick, but still too late. I'm not watching any longer because the video wasn't working well for me, but lots of personal fouls and unsportsmanlike on both teams it seems. Widener has UMU to look forward to...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:43:38 PM
Salisbury finally gets one into the end zone but it's too little too late as Widener had opened up a 28-0 lead. Less than 2 minutes left to play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:45:38 PM
Cortland game is also a final as Wesley wins it 56-6.

Salisbury also goes final as Widener wins it by that 28-7 final score.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 03:28:35 PM
Hobart will be traveling to Minnesota. The good news is that it's not Mary Hardin Baylor or Mount Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
well didnt see that one coming.  thought widener could throw on salisbury and they did, but am stunned that the gulls could not run the ball.  widener must have made great adjustments for this game from what I saw against del val.  congrats to widener for what seems like a well played game.  congrats also to hobart, liked your team last year and seem to have improved this year.  good luck next week against st thomas.  lastly, that was not a very good football team that i saw today in dover.  i was baffled as to how they continually run a read option when the qb never runs the football.  sort of makes it easy for the defense to key on the running back.  just not a good game for the dragons from the outset.  2 east teams in the final 8, guess they are representing pretty well.  wish the south teams were not battling each other next week as i think both of them could win in the quarters.  should be a fun week.
Title: NEFC/MASCAC will be forced to schedule up
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 24, 2012, 05:30:08 PM
It looks like the NEFC and MASCAC teams will be forced to schedule up, unless every NEFC team always has a bye week 3. The NEFC has 3 OOC games, and the MASCAC has two. Starting next year, the MASCAC will be in conference for the last week of NEFC ooc, so the NEFC will have to go elsewhere for games.

Here is the NEFC schedule for next year, some interesting OOC games:
http://www.newenglandfootballconference.com/seasons/2013/2013_NEFC_Schedule.pdf
9/7 Coast Guard at Merchant Marine (NY)
9/7 Springfield @ WNEU (I believe this is going to become an annual game)
9/7 Endicott @ Framingham
9/7 MIT @ Pomona-Pitzer (CA)
9/14 Salve @ Montclair St
9/21 Coast Guard @ Hampden Sydney
10/19 Salve @ Union
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 24, 2012, 06:03:33 PM
QuoteIt may be NCAA policy that video needs to be free in the playoffs. Whereas regular season is left up to the discretion of the schools and/or conference.

Yes, that's correct.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2012, 06:07:02 PM
Congratulations to Wesley for a dominating performance today against a solid Cortland squad. Good luck next week against MHB , a neck-twister for sure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on November 24, 2012, 06:07:13 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 24, 2012, 02:33:14 PM
Final now at Hobart as the Statesmen win 35-10. Somewhere the Rev. is smiling. ;D

Yes. Yes, indeed. Thank you, magic man.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jdex on November 24, 2012, 06:16:56 PM

Cortland became very, very predictable on offense late in the season. No imagination on that side of the ball. Defense carried the load into this weekend, and two quick turnovers put it at a huge disadvantage against a solid Wesley outfit. Still, quite the season for the RDragons! And congrats to East survivors, the Statesmen in particular.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: XREDDRAGON77 on November 24, 2012, 07:04:03 PM
I guess all the coins I tossed into the wishing well weren't enough to even keep the game remotely close!  Regardless, we ran the table after the week 1 loss, won the conference, beat Ithaca, and won a 1st round game.  Congrats on a great season.  All isn't lost.  I have 2 former HS players on the Widener roster in the secondary, and 1 stud  D-lineman playing for Bart.



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 24, 2012, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: jdex on November 24, 2012, 06:16:56 PM

Cortland became very, very predictable on offense late in the season. No imagination on that side of the ball. Defense carried the load into this weekend, and two quick turnovers put it at a huge disadvantage against a solid Wesley outfit. Still, quite the season for the RDragons! And congrats to East survivors, the Statesmen in particular.

I thought Cortland did what they had to do game plan-wise ----try to shorten the game. Yes, the two turnovers put them in the hole, but after that they controlled the ball well and time of possession for the rest of most of the first half. They tried to grind it out but they couldn't finish drives and had to settle for two field goals. When they tried to throw the ball down field later it was pretty ugly and the interceptions piled up. They don't have the players to challenge the Wolverines vertically so they tried to rely on their big O-line and converting on 3rd down. Wesley only had four possessions in the first half (one was a kneel down before halftime.) They had to shorten the game to have a chance. They just couldn't get a turnover or big play on special teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 25, 2012, 05:21:29 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2012, 02:38:54 PM
Hobart grinds out a 35-10 Total Team win. This is the deepest and most balanced team in the history of the program. The line play was awesome on both sides of the ball. Go Elmhust,  home games are preferred :)

Hey Bartman, remember when I said I liked Heidelberg's draw over on the OAC board?  Yeah, that was dumb.  Berg wasn't ready for Hobart this year.  Hobart was very impressive yesterday.  Good luck at UST.  That's a winnable game for you guys. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 25, 2012, 09:27:31 PM
It was great to talk with Coach Cragg again and thanks to UST SID Gene McGivern for joining us on the show tonight.  Great perspective on the history of the MIAC and UST for us "east" fans.  Also a good preview of the Hobart-UST matchup, including some hijinks at a NBA game, so if you missed it, check the archive at www.inthehuddlle.com
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on November 26, 2012, 07:27:05 AM
Good show, fellas. I always love hearing Coach Cragg and the UST SID was a very gracious guest. I look forward to Sunday Korea time so I can learn the fate of my beloved Statesmen. I think we have a real chance. St Thomas is a good team, no doubt about that, but Hobart has pleasantly surprised me this year. I am especially impressed by the depth of the squad. I expect a win and to see Hobart play Linfield or Oshkosh.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Garnet on November 26, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
I'm watching it for free. I am not sure the policy on charging for the playoff games.

I stand corrected. I was watching at my office on Tuesday where I have high speed internet, and stayed late specifically to watch the Buff State-Hobart hoops game. But didn't because I won't pay to watch it. Today I'm home where I only have dial up service and can't get streaming video with that, so I didn't even try to pull up a video.  They charge for a regular season BB game and give you the NCAA football game for free. Glad they are, but that's seems strange.

Dial up internet service?  Really?  How did this get past the rest of you guys.  Come on magic, get with the 'Blazing Speed'.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 26, 2012, 12:27:05 PM
Quote from: Garnet on November 26, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
I'm watching it for free. I am not sure the policy on charging for the playoff games.

I stand corrected. I was watching at my office on Tuesday where I have high speed internet, and stayed late specifically to watch the Buff State-Hobart hoops game. But didn't because I won't pay to watch it. Today I'm home where I only have dial up service and can't get streaming video with that, so I didn't even try to pull up a video.  They charge for a regular season BB game and give you the NCAA football game for free. Glad they are, but that's seems strange.

Dial up internet service?  Really?  How did this get past the rest of you guys.  Come on magic, get with the 'Blazing Speed'.

Now, now - don't pick on magicman.  He lives in Plattsburgh - they only got dial up a couple of weeks ago! ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 26, 2012, 01:47:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 26, 2012, 12:27:05 PM
Quote from: Garnet on November 26, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 24, 2012, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 24, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
I'm watching it for free. I am not sure the policy on charging for the playoff games.

I stand corrected. I was watching at my office on Tuesday where I have high speed internet, and stayed late specifically to watch the Buff State-Hobart hoops game. But didn't because I won't pay to watch it. Today I'm home where I only have dial up service and can't get streaming video with that, so I didn't even try to pull up a video.  They charge for a regular season BB game and give you the NCAA football game for free. Glad they are, but that's seems strange.

Dial up internet service?  Really?  How did this get past the rest of you guys.  Come on magic, get with the 'Blazing Speed'.

Now, now - don't pick on magicman.  He lives in Plattsburgh - they only got dial up a couple of weeks ago! ;D
I'll be honest...I didn't realize anyone still offered dial up...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2012, 04:20:17 PM
NCAA's policy on charging for playoff video and/or audio is strict:  it's not allowed through the NCAA's championships agreement with Turner Sports (concluding its second full year of 14).

Here are the video rules:

http://www.ncaa.com/content/live-video-streaming-rights-policy
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on November 30, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
Looking forward to some great games this weekend. I think if Widener limits its turnovers and limit the big play defensively, it should be a close game and Widener prevailing. As for the Hobart vs. UST, I think this is going to be great game, I love this matchup overall. I have a sense that this Hobart team is on a mission, love their style of play. This should be a close game as well, with the winner making a big play early in the third to change the game and I think that winner is Hobart.

If Wesley wins this weekend, they'll need to run the ball a little more, therfore controlling the clock, I think if they do that, they should be fine. Nevertheless, Wesley vs. UMHB has always been fun to listen to or watch, hoping for another great game between two top teams.

If everthing holds true, I'm most likely going to make the trip to Dover next weekend to watch Widener @ Wesley or Watching both Wesley vs. Widener and Hobart vs. Linfield/UW-Oshkosh on my dual screens. Most likely the ladder of the two.

Good Luck to all teams this weekend.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 30, 2012, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: SUADC on November 30, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
Looking forward to some great games this weekend. I think if Widener limits its turnovers and limit the big play defensively, it should be a close game and Widener prevailing.

It will take a lot more than this for Widener to be anywhere near close to prevailing against Mount Union, to be honest. The Purple Raiders are going to need to make a lot of mistakes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 30, 2012, 10:54:58 AM
Also, there's about a 1 in 10,000 chance that Hobart, Widener and Wesley all win. And I'm being generous. Perhaps one of them. Even 2 of 3 would be a stretch.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 30, 2012, 11:02:08 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 30, 2012, 10:54:58 AM
Also, there's about a 1 in 10,000 chance that Hobart, Widener and Wesley all win. And I'm being generous. Perhaps one of them. Even 2 of 3 would be a stretch.

I think Hobart and Wesley have a fighting chance.  Widener might be in for a beat down.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 30, 2012, 11:21:00 AM
I agree that Hobart and Wesley have a fair chance. I give Wesley the best chance given that they have ended UMHB's season the last two years. Hobart has impressed me but I am less gung-ho than others are about their chances.

Edit: Although UMHB is probably the best they've been in several years... So maybe I don't give them the best chance.  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 30, 2012, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 30, 2012, 11:02:08 AM

I think Hobart and Wesley have a fighting chance.  Widener might be in for a beat down.

And which team that has played UMU this year hasn't....?

I'm not sure what the outcome will be...(IMO it could be anywhere from a triple monkey stomp to a Win), but is sure a great opportunity for WU to understand what they need to do to get to that next level...


Let's face it, this is a huge step up in class for Widener, as it would(will) be for Hobart, and St Thomas...maybe not so much for UMHB, Wesley and Linfield...

I think Wesley can easily win this weekend...unless they make a lot of mistakes.   


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 30, 2012, 11:46:49 AM
I'm going to put my "likely to be completely wrong" predictions here:

Wesley 34
UMHB 45

Hobart 13
St. Thomas 20

Widener 20
Mount Union 56
(I feel bad for picking this for some reason, but I don't think they will be able to stop UMU on offense).

And the West Special (and what I think will be the best game of the weekend):

UWO 43
Linfield 42
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 30, 2012, 12:19:44 PM
Quote from: bman on November 30, 2012, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 30, 2012, 11:02:08 AM

I think Hobart and Wesley have a fighting chance.  Widener might be in for a beat down.

And which team that has played UMU this year hasn't....?

I'm not sure what the outcome will be...(IMO it could be anywhere from a triple monkey stomp to a Win), but is sure a great opportunity for WU to understand what they need to do to get to that next level...


Let's face it, this is a huge step up in class for Widener, as it would(will) be for Hobart, and St Thomas...maybe not so much for UMHB, Wesley and Linfield...

I think Wesley can easily win this weekend...unless they make a lot of mistakes.   

I wasn't putting down Widener at all here.  It just looks like Mt. Union is absolutely loaded.  I'd put Widener up against any of the other teams.  Just the toughest matchup. 

pg, as far as being 'gung ho' about Hobart, i'm really not.  I thought they looked like crap in the first half last week.  But I watched the second half of the UST game and I really wasn't all that impressed.  Being that Hobart has played some high calibur teams over the past 2 years, i think they have shot.

Wesley seems to be probably the most athletic team in the country every single year but they either can't put it together or have discipline problems.  If they put it together they can beat anyone. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 30, 2012, 01:04:35 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 30, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
Looking forward to some great games this weekend. I think if Widener limits its turnovers and limit the big play defensively, it should be a close game and Widener prevailing. As for the Hobart vs. UST, I think this is going to be great game, I love this matchup overall. I have a sense that this Hobart team is on a mission, love their style of play. This should be a close game as well, with the winner making a big play early in the third to change the game and I think that winner is Hobart.

If Wesley wins this weekend, they'll need to run the ball a little more, therfore controlling the clock, I think if they do that, they should be fine. Nevertheless, Wesley vs. UMHB has always been fun to listen to or watch, hoping for another great game between two top teams.

If everthing holds true, I'm most likely going to make the trip to Dover next weekend to watch Widener @ Wesley or Watching both Wesley vs. Widener and Hobart vs. Linfield/UW-Oshkosh on my dual screens. Most likely the ladder of the two.

Good Luck to all teams this weekend.

I think you're way too optimistic about Widener's chances (which is understandable because they just knocked out your Gulls).  As some of the others have said already: Widener is very good and I'd give them a chance against several other teams still in the field.

That Mount Union team is plain nasty this year.  Widener's taking a big step up in class this week.  Don't get me wrong, I love change and parity and I always want to see some new teams making a run, but I think Widener loses by four touchdowns or more.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on November 30, 2012, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 30, 2012, 01:04:35 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 30, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
Looking forward to some great games this weekend. I think if Widener limits its turnovers and limit the big play defensively, it should be a close game and Widener prevailing. As for the Hobart vs. UST, I think this is going to be great game, I love this matchup overall. I have a sense that this Hobart team is on a mission, love their style of play. This should be a close game as well, with the winner making a big play early in the third to change the game and I think that winner is Hobart.

If Wesley wins this weekend, they'll need to run the ball a little more, therfore controlling the clock, I think if they do that, they should be fine. Nevertheless, Wesley vs. UMHB has always been fun to listen to or watch, hoping for another great game between two top teams.

If everthing holds true, I'm most likely going to make the trip to Dover next weekend to watch Widener @ Wesley or Watching both Wesley vs. Widener and Hobart vs. Linfield/UW-Oshkosh on my dual screens. Most likely the ladder of the two.

Good Luck to all teams this weekend.

I think you're way too optimistic about Widener's chances (which is understandable because they just knocked out your Gulls).  As some of the others have said already: Widener is very good and I'd give them a chance against several other teams still in the field.

That Mount Union team is plain nasty this year.  Widener's taking a big step up in class this week.  Don't get me wrong, I love change and parity and I always want to see some new teams making a run, but I think Widener loses by four touchdowns or more.

Funny that you say I was being way too optimistic, I actually was...lol! I was trying not to a pessimist in my conversations, but I could have went more on the lines of a realist.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 30, 2012, 10:35:24 PM
i will be stunned if widener is within 30.  defense is way to soft to deal with mount o.  offense will struggle scoring.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 01, 2012, 01:47:26 AM
Quote from: SUADC on November 30, 2012, 10:20:25 AM
Looking forward to some great games this weekend. I think if Widener limits its turnovers and limit the big play defensively, it should be a close game and Widener prevailing. As for the Hobart vs. UST, I think this is going to be great game, I love this matchup overall. I have a sense that this Hobart team is on a mission, love their style of play. This should be a close game as well, with the winner making a big play early in the third to change the game and I think that winner is Hobart.

From your lips to God's ears, SUADC. The Rev has rediscovered religion in anticipation of this game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:15:22 PM
The East teams are really doing well in the early going...  ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 01, 2012, 01:20:07 PM
I know this sounds like piling on....but Widener is horrible. 

This does not bode well for Mount in the semi's.  They needed a test. 

To be honest.....I can't believe Salisbury was lost to this team.  They must have had their worst game of the year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:28:04 PM
Hobart got off to a horrible start but attempting to reel things back in.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on December 01, 2012, 01:38:28 PM
bart down 22-7 2nd qtr
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 01, 2012, 01:40:52 PM
Hobart need to line up like Stanford and run the ball.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
St. Thomas has wide open receivers all over the field. This is an embarrassment of a day so far for the region. If this continues we are going to have to take whatever seedings come in the future.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
St. Thomas has wide open receivers all over the field. This is an embarrassment of a day so far for the region. If this continues we are going to have to take whatever seedings come in the future.

If Hobart and/or Widener were able to return next year with undefeated records, their 2-1 playoff records, assuming things remain this way, would actually propel (with all other numbers being relatively equal) them to a strong chance for a #1 seed and virtual guarantees for a #2 seed.  They're both losing to #1 seeds and Hobart beat two out-of-region opponents in the process.  The world has not ended today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 01, 2012, 01:50:59 PM
Hobart needs to do what UST is doing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
St. Thomas has wide open receivers all over the field. This is an embarrassment of a day so far for the region. If this continues we are going to have to take whatever seedings come in the future.

If Hobart and/or Widener were able to return next year with undefeated records, their 2-1 playoff records, assuming things remain this way, would actually propel (with all other numbers being relatively equal) them to a strong chance for a #1 seed and virtual guarantees for a #2 seed.  They're both losing to #1 seeds and Hobart beat two out-of-region opponents in the process.  The world has not ended today.

I don't know, I just see two teams grossly overmatched so far. Sure it is a number 1 seed but it seemed like everyone wanted to be all up on Hobart and that the Tommies were so weak for a 1 seed. Still a lot of time left but the last two weeks didn't really garner much respect for the east IMO. The East will generally always have at least one team in the 3rd round.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
St. Thomas has wide open receivers all over the field. This is an embarrassment of a day so far for the region. If this continues we are going to have to take whatever seedings come in the future.

If Hobart and/or Widener were able to return next year with undefeated records, their 2-1 playoff records, assuming things remain this way, would actually propel (with all other numbers being relatively equal) them to a strong chance for a #1 seed and virtual guarantees for a #2 seed.  They're both losing to #1 seeds and Hobart beat two out-of-region opponents in the process.  The world has not ended today.

I don't know, I just see two teams grossly overmatched so far. Sure it is a number 1 seed but it seemed like everyone wanted to be all up on Hobart and that the Tommies were so weak for a 1 seed. Still a lot of time left but the last two weeks didn't really garner much respect for the east IMO. The East will generally always have at least one team in the 3rd round.

Subjectivity only plays so much of a role.  If you're undefeated with a relatively sane SOS and perhaps have one RRO game on your schedule come selection time, you're almost guaranteed a #2 seed in this day and age (only the very weakest of conferences can't assume that).  Now throw in 2-1 records in the playoffs, and Hobart and Widener would be in position for #1 consideration depending on the remainder of the undefeated teams.  It's pretty much as simple as that now.  They try to find the top 8 teams and seed them #1 and #2.  Remember, this year there was an unusual number of undefeated teams and unusually low number of one-loss teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bleedpurple on December 01, 2012, 01:58:30 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
St. Thomas has wide open receivers all over the field. This is an embarrassment of a day so far for the region. If this continues we are going to have to take whatever seedings come in the future.

If Hobart and/or Widener were able to return next year with undefeated records, their 2-1 playoff records, assuming things remain this way, would actually propel (with all other numbers being relatively equal) them to a strong chance for a #1 seed and virtual guarantees for a #2 seed.  They're both losing to #1 seeds and Hobart beat two out-of-region opponents in the process.  The world has not ended today.

I don't know, I just see two teams grossly overmatched so far. Sure it is a number 1 seed but it seemed like everyone wanted to be all up on Hobart and that the Tommies were so weak for a 1 seed. Still a lot of time left but the last two weeks didn't really garner much respect for the east IMO. The East will generally always have at least one team in the 3rd round.

I agree with pg04 If the day continues as it is right now, the world doesn't end, but it is a definite set-back in the Easts Regions striving for respect nationally.  I do believe that when you get past the top couple of teams in each region, the east probably holds it's own pretty well.  I think the top teams in the east match-up OK with the 3rd or 4th best teams in the other regions.  But the east needs to have someone rise up and be competitive with the #1's at some point to be taken seriously as a #1 seed for the playoffs. If the region expects to have a #1, they need a team to be able to play with the #1's. A 2-1 playoff record is not #1 worthy, nor does it make for a good argument for a #1 seed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:59:25 PM
Hobart very much looks like a team not ready for the pressure of this game. Lots of mistakes, dropping balls, overthrows, etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 01, 2012, 02:02:45 PM
Agreed bp, true as true could be. ...ugh this is so ****ing disappointing  :'(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:59:25 PM
Hobart very much looks like a team not ready for the pressure of this game. Lots of mistakes, dropping balls, overthrows, etc.
----They might also be playing a very good team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:59:25 PM
Hobart very much looks like a team not ready for the pressure of this game. Lots of mistakes, dropping balls, overthrows, etc.
----They might also be playing a very good team.

None of the stuff I mentioned has anything to do with the other team. Dropping the ball on the punt, a slew of overthrows with no pressure really have nothing to do with St. Thomas. Sure they are a good team, especially defensively, but that isn't really relevant to what I said.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:59:25 PM
Hobart very much looks like a team not ready for the pressure of this game. Lots of mistakes, dropping balls, overthrows, etc.
----They might also be playing a very good team.

None of the stuff I mentioned has anything to do with the other team. Dropping the ball on the punt, a slew of overthrows with no pressure really have nothing to do with St. Thomas. Sure they are a good team, especially defensively, but that isn't really relevant to what I said.
They wouldn't have as many overthrows if they could run.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 01, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:59:25 PM
Hobart very much looks like a team not ready for the pressure of this game. Lots of mistakes, dropping balls, overthrows, etc.
----They might also be playing a very good team.

Yep. Good teams tend to do this to you. Hobart is a solid team and their D seems up to the task. But UST has tons of depth, great play on both lines and great edge players. When the game gets faster mistakes happen. Not unique to Hobart. When UST has been healthy and avoiding self-inflicted wounds, they've been doing this to most teams this year.

Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:06:32 PM

None of the stuff I mentioned has anything to do with the other team. Dropping the ball on the punt, a slew of overthrows with no pressure really have nothing to do with St. Thomas. Sure they are a good team, especially defensively, but that isn't really relevant to what I said.

The UST D is getting tons of pressure on Hobart when the pass, those overthrows are coming under duress. And aside from a long run, they've been unable to move the ball on the ground consistently. The UST DB's have had great coverage and Hobart has little time to throw.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: bleedpurple on December 01, 2012, 01:58:30 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
St. Thomas has wide open receivers all over the field. This is an embarrassment of a day so far for the region. If this continues we are going to have to take whatever seedings come in the future.

If Hobart and/or Widener were able to return next year with undefeated records, their 2-1 playoff records, assuming things remain this way, would actually propel (with all other numbers being relatively equal) them to a strong chance for a #1 seed and virtual guarantees for a #2 seed.  They're both losing to #1 seeds and Hobart beat two out-of-region opponents in the process.  The world has not ended today.

I don't know, I just see two teams grossly overmatched so far. Sure it is a number 1 seed but it seemed like everyone wanted to be all up on Hobart and that the Tommies were so weak for a 1 seed. Still a lot of time left but the last two weeks didn't really garner much respect for the east IMO. The East will generally always have at least one team in the 3rd round.

I agree with pg04 If the day continues as it is right now, the world doesn't end, but it is a definite set-back in the Easts Regions striving for respect nationally.  I do believe that when you get past the top couple of teams in each region, the east probably holds it's own pretty well.  I think the top teams in the east match-up OK with the 3rd or 4th best teams in the other regions.  But the east needs to have someone rise up and be competitive with the #1's at some point to be taken seriously as a #1 seed for the playoffs. If the region expects to have a #1, they need a team to be able to play with the #1's. A 2-1 playoff record is not #1 worthy, nor does it make for a good argument for a #1 seed.

It's mental mast*****ion to attempt to say whether 2-1 is or isn't #1 worthy since:

1) We don't know who will be undefeated next season; and

2) The Committee has a list of criteria to use.  Since each region has a list of 10 teams that get ranked, each region has an equal opportunity at having RROs in their schedule and at getting #1 and #2 seeds.

If St. Thomas and Mount Union end up meeting in the Stagg Bowl, then there's no verdict to be made based on today.  Again, none.

Disappointing day?  Maybe.  If you're a Hobart fan, you shouldn't be disappointed at the big picture -- your team just made history today.  It might end up being a loss today and will sting, but look at all the nay-sayers you shut up this year.  Widener fans also can smile since, after looking weak in the first half against BSU, the team beat a valiant for in Salisbury. 

More than anything else, Rev back away from the ledge.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:27:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.

So the manner in which they are losing means nothing? Both East teams are being rolled. The South teams are at a 17-12 score, both teams rolled their opponents in the previous rounds, with one rolling two eastern teams. At some point maybe the East needs to be punished a little bit more.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 01, 2012, 02:28:47 PM
The most sucessful formation has been goaline package for Hobart, I really think they can do that...you can't play action if your not running effectively. Also, that last touchdown, I knew UST was not going to run, they had no timeouts with 13 sec left, they was going to take a shot.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 01, 2012, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:10:57 PM

It's mental mast*****ion to attempt to say whether 2-1 is or isn't #1 worthy since:


Is that really the best or most appropriate descriptor you could come up with?  ::) That's the kind of word picture that belongs on an ESPN comment board, not d3boards.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 01, 2012, 02:31:15 PM
Hobart does tend to play better I'm the second half of games. Lets hope they regain their composure and have a wicked comeback.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:31:33 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:27:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.

So the manner in which they are losing means nothing?

Yes, in fact, you are basically correct.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 01, 2012, 02:31:44 PM
St. Thomas continues to be good stopping the run, and Hobart doesn't have the speed to get to the outside. They need to figure out how to break a big play in the passing game but Strang doesn't have enough time to throw and he is overthrowing receivers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:31:57 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.
let me mediate a bit......it's not bad for the East Region according to the criteria as the criteria is mainly derived from in-region results.  It's bad for national respect.  Concordia Moorhead fans watching this game will be thinking that they are better than Hobart and miles better than Bridgewater State who was selected just ahead of them.  Would Hobart be favored traveling to any of the top ten teams in the West? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on December 01, 2012, 02:32:17 PM
UST is an excellent team, but you might want to consider that Hobart lost an All American D player (Worthington) on the first defensive play.  The QB would be scrambling much more and we'd be getting more pressure if he's in.  They can double Tyre Coleman and no one else is making them pay across the front 4/6.  They're gassed too.  Just weren't ready at the start of the game. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: AO on December 01, 2012, 02:31:57 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.
let me mediate a bit......it's not bad for the East Region according to the criteria as the criteria is mainly derived from in-region results.  It's bad for national respect.  Concordia Moorhead fans watching this game will be thinking that they are better than Hobart and miles better than Bridgewater State who was selected just ahead of them.  Would Hobart be favored traveling to any of the top ten teams in the West?

I have been against it but the more and more I see these games the more I think that there has to be more emphasis on regional power. I'm sorry but we see these poor results year in and year out and it does nothing but make the teams a laughing stock once they get to the quarterfinals. The only way an East team gets a team to the Final 4 is to actually have a bracket full of East teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 01, 2012, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:27:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.

So the manner in which they are losing means nothing? Both East teams are being rolled. The South teams are at a 17-12 score, both teams rolled their opponents in the previous rounds, with one rolling two eastern teams. At some point maybe the East needs to be punished a little bit more.

I think it may be the number of schools within the east region, there is so much parity, you'll luckily find a team in the east that has depth to go year in and year out these days...the east regional teams fight over players year in and year out. I think Wesley has done a great job grabbing top talent from states like PA, NJ, MD, etc...and you see why the talent from teams in PA, NJ, MD has drop off. However, that is no excuse for teams to be getting dig in the dirt right now. Coaches may have to do better with what they have and game plan better. IDK... :-\
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Now that I've went through so much trouble to bash the region  :P, I hope Rev is right and there is some sort of come back.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 01, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
Dlip just thinks we suck period. Until we beat someone really good we should not be taken seriously at all past round #2. Dlip is really sad right now but seeing reality for what it is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2012, 02:46:47 PM
Let's not look too deep into this thing.  Hobart is getting beat in a final 8 playoff game against a great football team on the road.  Hopefully they can learn and be more prepared next year.  That being said, they should take some blame for not being prepared and/or playing good football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: dlip on December 01, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
Dlip just thinks we suck period. Until we beat someone really good we should not be taken seriously at all past round #2. Dlip is really sad right now but seeing reality for what it is.

Dlip, I'm putting you and Rev in a room for the rest of the weekend.  No windows.  No furniture.  One knife in the center of the room.  Best of luck, guys.  See you Monday morning.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 01, 2012, 02:50:13 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 01, 2012, 02:32:17 PM
UST is an excellent team, but you might want to consider that Hobart lost an All American D player (Worthington) on the first defensive play.  The QB would be scrambling much more and we'd be getting more pressure if he's in.  They can double Tyre Coleman and no one else is making them pay across the front 4/6.  They're gassed too.  Just weren't ready at the start of the game.

Keep in mind, UST is playing without 5-6 starters as well. They've been incredibly banged up this season. At one point they had 11 starters out over a 2-3 game stretch (with 11 out in one game as well). The story of their season, IMO, is the depth Caruso has developed in recruiting. Post-Bethel, UST has been a patchwork starting lineup. Their depth and youth is just scary, speaking as a MIAC rival.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 01, 2012, 02:58:38 PM
O'Connell hasn't needed much time to throw, though. Lots of quick-hitter plays.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 01, 2012, 03:01:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: dlip on December 01, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
Dlip just thinks we suck period. Until we beat someone really good we should not be taken seriously at all past round #2. Dlip is really sad right now but seeing reality for what it is.

Dlip, I'm putting you and Rev in a room for the rest of the weekend.  No windows.  No furniture.  One knife in the center of the room.  Best of luck, guys.  See you Monday morning.

What did I do? I'm just over here trying to get some sleep.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 03:04:25 PM
Quote from: Rt Rev J.H. Hobart on December 01, 2012, 03:01:24 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: dlip on December 01, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
Dlip just thinks we suck period. Until we beat someone really good we should not be taken seriously at all past round #2. Dlip is really sad right now but seeing reality for what it is.

Dlip, I'm putting you and Rev in a room for the rest of the weekend.  No windows.  No furniture.  One knife in the center of the room.  Best of luck, guys.  See you Monday morning.

What did I do? I'm just over here trying to get some sleep.

I will have to give Rev credit -- you've been calm.  Granted, until this post, I didn't know if your computer was still in one piece ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:05:22 PM
Final: Mount Union 72 Widener 17 -- Part of me was hoping for 90  ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 01, 2012, 03:05:54 PM
Mt. Union with over 750 yards of offense today.  Holy dlippin dlip.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on December 01, 2012, 03:06:51 PM
I know that, but we are talking about an All American, top 3 player on the team.  If you don't think that changes the complexion of game, that's fine, but I know what he means to that defense and I've watched at least 5 intermediate pass plays where the QB had all day.  Hobart's been able to protect their secondary by getting pressure and they can't now. 

Game was over in the first 5 minutes.  Bad snap leads to blocked punt, DW goes down on next play, they score from 4 yards, stuff us (their D looks great, closes fast) and then we give them the ball on the 32 after the 15yd penalty.  Boom, they're up 15-0 with an average field position of the Hobart 18 and our co-best defensive player is out. 

I'm not taking anything away from UST here, but who loses that caliber of player immediately on the road against a top 4 team and can stay in it?  I'd submit maybe UMHB, MUC, maybe Wesley, Linfield and one or two others? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on December 01, 2012, 03:11:59 PM
Too many bad breaks for Hobart today.  Will have a post-mortem tomorrow night at 7:30 but to PA's point, losing Worthington (to a chop block no less) was really the play of the game.  This defense just isn't the same w/o him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on December 01, 2012, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 01, 2012, 03:06:51 PM
I know that, but we are talking about an All American, top 3 player on the team.  If you don't think that changes the complexion of game, that's fine, but I know what he means to that defense and I've watched at least 5 intermediate pass plays where the QB had all day.  Hobart's been able to protect their secondary by getting pressure and they can't now. 

Game was over in the first 5 minutes.  Bad snap leads to blocked punt, DW goes down on next play, they score from 4 yards, stuff us (their D looks great, closes fast) and then we give them the ball on the 32 after the 15yd penalty.  Boom, they're up 15-0 with an average field position of the Hobart 18 and our co-best defensive player is out. 

I'm not taking anything away from UST here, but who loses that caliber of player immediately on the road against a top 4 team and can stay in it?  I'd submit maybe UMHB, MUC, maybe Wesley, Linfield and one or two others?

If it was the QB I could see the argument but just don't see his injury being a major factor today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:14:47 PM
The injury seems to be being used way too much here. The game is 40-7. I can see it being a factor but St. Thomas just looks loads better.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on December 01, 2012, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:14:47 PM
The injury seems to be being used way too much here. The game is 40-7. I can see it being a factor but St. Thomas just looks loads better.

Fisher was playing with Safeties at LBer last year vs STU and the results were similar to today...

Moral of the story...

The STU squad is just too damn good...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:34:27 PM
And I don't want to mean the injury wasn't a big loss for Hobart, but I am just amazed at how well the Tommies have played and they deserve the full credit for winning the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:41:00 PM
As I said earlier in the posts but probably lost in the diatribe about the region's weakness as a whole, Hobart has a lot to be proud of for their season this year. Reaching the final 8 is a great accomplishment and for that they should feel very good!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on December 01, 2012, 03:45:30 PM
UST rolled us and deserve all the credit in the world.  Their secondary closes fast as s**t and they have big, athletic receivers.  But I still say the game was over in that first few series.  Elmhurst jumped out on then 14-0 and lose 24-17.  We needed to get up first, but instead, bad snap leads to a blocked punt they get the ball at the 4 and DW goes out.  8-0 on the fake xp, we don't move the ball (their D stuffed our O, Strang looked tight and tenative - even when he had time he was throwing high and the running game couldn't get going as we couldn't string any first downs together in the first half), they get the ball after punt and 15yd penalty on Klindera and score.  Can't come back once you're down.  Their D stopped us early and the D was on the field the entire first half - TC had his hands on his hips in the first half - I haven't seen that since he hit campus.  We do that to other teams, just wear them down. 

Nonetheless, this is the best Hobart team in history, best team in the East this year (IMO) and will return a ton on D.  Cleared out the ODAC and NCAC champs (if you want to question the East, question the North as well outside MUC).  The big questions are:  Will Devin be back healthy?  And what happens at DT since Troy Johnson is off the team (he was the starter until two weeks ago) as we graduate Auriemma (an FY and Soph played in his place the past two weeks, both played pretty well).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 01, 2012, 03:47:54 PM
Congrats Hobart on a great season. Dlip just didn't think the East was this far off the mark compared to the top 4. Or at least #'s 3 and 4 of the top 4. ****!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:48:45 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 01, 2012, 03:45:30 PM

Nonetheless, this is the best Hobart team in history, best team in the East this year (IMO) and will return a ton on D.  Cleared out the ODAC and NCAC champs (if you want to question the East, question the North as well outside MUC). 

I definitely think Hobart was the best team in the East this year. I also agree that The North (The ODAC is in the south, though) outside of the CCIW and Mount Union weren't that strong this year either.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 01, 2012, 03:51:38 PM
pg04...hold dlip :-[
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: dlip on December 01, 2012, 03:51:38 PM
pg04...hold dlip :-[

LOL! Oh dlip, It will be all right, we'll be back next season to try it all again (well hopefully we are!). I'm hoping PA is right and Hobart will be a power again next year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 01, 2012, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: SUADC on December 01, 2012, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:27:58 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 01, 2012, 02:23:44 PM
Quote from: pg04 on December 01, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Frank you can make this all look as rosy as you want, but, I don't think this is anywhere near a good day for the region as it stands. Sure, it may be good for Hobart as a program but outside of that I see no real positive result from this.

Where did I say it was rosy?  Read everything I wrote.  I'm saying the big picture refutes this idea that the East pays some sort of price for today's results.  The teams that polled #7 and #9 are losing to the teams that polled #4 and #1.  Again, no verdict can be drawn if #1 and #4 meet in the Stagg Bowl.  Two other teams from other regions will lose today, too.  That's not going to hurt the reputations of the South or the West at all since -- wait for it -- they were basically guaranteed teams in the Semis after last weekend's results.  It's not rosy, but it's far from a death penalty.

So the manner in which they are losing means nothing? Both East teams are being rolled. The South teams are at a 17-12 score, both teams rolled their opponents in the previous rounds, with one rolling two eastern teams. At some point maybe the East needs to be punished a little bit more.

I think it may be the number of schools within the east region, there is so much parity, you'll luckily find a team in the east that has depth to go year in and year out these days...the east regional teams fight over players year in and year out. I think Wesley has done a great job grabbing top talent from states like PA, NJ, MD, etc...and you see why the talent from teams in PA, NJ, MD has drop off. However, that is no excuse for teams to be getting dig in the dirt right now. Coaches may have to do better with what they have and game plan better. IDK... :-\

Interesting approach, SUADC, but that's a tough theory to push without a lot of deep research.

Gotta disagree on at least one level ...

It's not like there is this huge crowd of talented players just begging for a chance to play in the WIAC or MIAC. Do you really think teams like UST, SJU, Bethel, Concordia .... don't "fight over players year in or year out"?

On one, very basic level, let's compare Maryland (population 5,773,552) vs. Minnesota (5,303,925)

Minnesota has 14 d3 foot-playing schools.  Maryland has what 4? 5? And Minnesota also has 9 d2 football schools, which certainly taps the fringes of the d3 talent pool. Maryland has how many d2?

Even so, this is only one small piece of the puzzle and I sure don't pretend to have the answer.

A cultural thing maybe?  You get outside the urban areas in the Midwest and football is a lot bigger than it is in much of the East. Those rural schools in Minny or Wis. aren't putting out many soccer or lacrosse players.

Even so, here in Md., I've got neighbor kid who lives three doors down (and across the street from a Hobart alum)  who was a regular for the tremendous Good Counsel program. He's at your old school now, but is there for the education (and, perhaps, the beach). In Minny and Wisc., there aren't many beaches and schools would be fighting like crazy over this kid. One example doesn't  make a trend, but -- as someone who has lived all across the country -- the football culture just doesn't seem as strong or dominant here IMO.

Not bashing ... just observations.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 01, 2012, 04:04:33 PM
I'm happy with Hobart this year. Who wouldn't be? Undefeated in regular season. Liberty league champs. Made it the the Quarterfinals. This was the best Hobart team ever!

The Rev also prefers being blown out. I know it is counter-intuitive but here's my rationale: If Hobart had lost a close one there would be a boatload of bitter recriminations, second-guessing, self-doubt, mental anguish, "If only I'd have done this," or "We would have won if so and so had done that." Coulda shoulda woulda questions that eat a Man's soul.

This way Hobart players and fans can just say,"Look, we did our best, but our opponent is clearly on another plane." The problem them belongs to President Gearen and the Trustees: "Do we want to commit the resources necessary to become a true national con trendier or are we happy being the best of the East?"  If this were a war, this is not a tactical level decision a player can make. This is not even a strategic decision a coach can make. This is a campaign-level decision that can only be made by the president and his advisors. Then the coach will enact strategies and players engage in tactics.

To The Rev the result of this game does not cause any existential problems. Who are we? What do we do now? That's easy. You're a championship team: build upon success and take it higher.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 01, 2012, 07:40:50 PM
If this sounds condescening, I apologize up front.  I have had more than a few cocktails today. 

First....I had caramel vodka & apple cider.  Can you say caramel apple.....yah.....I said it.

Then......my beautiful wife and I went out and did a bit of Christmas shopping, and then went to a killer wine tasting (I know.....annoys all the beer drinkers), ate a great dinner, and I had a few.  Mrs. drove home...and here I am.

I wanted and hoped Hobart (especially), and Widener would have put on a great performance today.  It just didn't happen.  Widener was very weak.  I believe Hobart had a really bad day, and UST is better than we all believed.  Eh......no big deal in the grand scheme of all that is D-III. 

I truly believe Mount could be "that team", and I think we will find out next week.  Anyone that wants to come to Alliance/Stark County, you can bunk at my place if you need a cheap place to crash.

This is SS...and I am OUT!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on December 01, 2012, 07:44:46 PM
skunks, if i did not have a prior commitment with some really good friends i would surely take you up on that offer.  i think you will have a game next week.  mount looked bored early, not so next week i figure.  bailey is really goood, but wesley had many chances to win the game.  with oshkosh beating linfield, looks like the winner next week wins it.  i will be at the stagg, you making it this year if mount does?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on December 01, 2012, 07:51:15 PM
The East has not done well in the playoffs since Rowan was the Beast of the East.  Since Rowan has fallen off others have tried to become the new Beast of the East but have all fallen dramatically short.  Whether you liked him or not KC Keeler was the real deal as a head coach in D-III, his Rowan teams had better depth than any of the East teams do now and that was with a 100 man roster limit.  I am not putting down any of the East region teams, I want the East to do well, but the facts are there.  Keeler was a great recruiter, he could lose several starters and always had a kid ready to step up.  Caruso at UST seems to be that type of recruiter to KS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on December 01, 2012, 08:21:13 PM
Nice sermon from the Rev, but Bartman is not feeling good about the Hobart game today. This was not our best effort and the team will tell you that. Although, our best  may not have been enough to beat an excellent UST squad(Bartman is rooting for Tom Cat advancement) , it sure would have felt better to know you did everything you could. The sting will be there for awhile.For the fans in the East, Hobart had an opportunity to represent well, but fell short and unfortunately the performance today will not serve to change impressions of the region. The Wesley loss last year gave us inspiration and this years UST  game will give us motivation in 2013.
That being said, let me say something about the season. The Hobart seniors should feel proud for the legacy they have left, which is a program that is ascending and hopefully dominating the Liberty League. The team gave the fans a season for the ages and we thank them for their dedication and the joy they have given to many of us. The parents travelled well and should be proud of a great bunch of boys that have become men and will go on to live" lives of consequence" and will draw on their success as a team in future endeavors in life. That is what  competing as a student athlete at Hobart is about. You have raised the standard of achievement in sports at Hobart, but more importantly learned how to succeed as a team in life. For the seniors, Hold your heads high and take your place as Football alums and root on those that remain.GO BART in 2013! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 01, 2012, 09:54:59 PM
Hobart had a very similar playoff outing to Fisher last year when you look at it.  2 playoff wins (though both of their wins were against out of region opponents where Fisher beat an east team and a south team) and both had ugly ends in Minnesota against St. Thomas.  That wasn't our best game against them either, but if it happens enough times...maybe we'd always get that impression but it's actually more of a case that St. Thomas is just that much better.  Who knows.  I was hoping Hobart would perform significantly better than Fisher given how last year went with Wesley combined with the fact St. Thomas was depleted and their freaking amazing WR who single handedly killed Fisher graduated.  But maybe the tiers of the past couple of years go 1) Mount Union and UWW until this season  2) UMHB and St. Thomas 3) Wesley and Linfield 4) A lot of other strong teams including where you will find some of the best eastern squads.   

Good season Hobart.  No shame in 12-1. 

By the way I am going to go out on a limb and say the championship game will be St. Thomas vs. Mount Union.  If that is the case, and if memory serves, St. Thomas is another purple jersey squad right?  It's clear to me that if Fisher wants to become a truly elite team they need to abandon the cardinal and become the Barneys or something.  Either that or do what I've been saying for years and do something to make yourself unique and that really stands out.  Paint the field Maroon!  Be like Boise State.  That will attract recruits. 

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsasinsaudi.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F09%2Fbarney.gif&hash=2b18e6584456bf0d875d9581782dde2d0e890ecd)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 01, 2012, 07:44:46 PM
skunks, if i did not have a prior commitment with some really good friends i would surely take you up on that offer.  i think you will have a game next week.  mount looked bored early, not so next week i figure.  bailey is really goood, but wesley had many chances to win the game.  with oshkosh beating linfield, looks like the winner next week wins it.  i will be at the stagg, you making it this year if mount does?

I'm not so sure about that.  Oshkosh will have an advantage in having played Mount the last 2 years to open the season.  Much like UWW was, they will not be in awe of playing Mount. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 02, 2012, 12:53:13 AM
One could - I am not necessarily doing so - argue that the "strength" of North Central's one win  (over #8) is more impressive than anything either Hobart or Widener did. I think outside of UMU, only the CCIW is really formidible.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2012, 02:02:02 AM
Quote from: pg04 on December 02, 2012, 12:53:13 AM
One could - I am not necessarily doing so - argue that the "strength" of North Central's one win  (over #8) is more impressive than anything either Hobart or Widener did. I think outside of UMU, only the CCIW is really formidible.

Just to add to that, Elmhurst (probably the third best team in the CCIW) lost to St. Thomas last week by THIRTY THREE points less than Hobart did.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.

Frank, I appreciate your defense of the East region playoff teams.  But you seem to give no attention to the fact that the two East region teams lost by a combined total of 95 points.  I'm not knocking the East region as quite honestly, I don't know much about them being from the midwest.  But 95 points in the third round is simply too much of a disparity and shouldn't happen this deep in the playoffs.  The simple fact that the East had two teams in the third round isn't proof of their ability to play at the highest level- it's purely a function of who they played to get this far. 
I hope the East does produce a top tier team, it's good for D3 football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 02, 2012, 07:54:34 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.

Frank, I appreciate your defense of the East region playoff teams.  But you seem to give no attention to the fact that the two East region teams lost by a combined total of 95 points.  I'm not knocking the East region as quite honestly, I don't know much about them being from the midwest.  But 95 points in the third round is simply too much of a disparity and shouldn't happen this deep in the playoffs.  The simple fact that the East had two teams in the third round isn't proof of their ability to play at the highest level- it's purely a function of who they played to get this far. 
I hope the East does produce a top tier team, it's good for D3 football.

Yeah and Hobart played against a Southern region team and a Northern region team to get there.  The east clearly doesn't have a team that can compete with the top 5 or 6 teams in the country.  But spare us on the strength of the regions as a whole which cannot be dictated by the presence (or lack thereof) of a couple elite teams in each region. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on December 02, 2012, 08:12:12 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 02, 2012, 07:54:34 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.

Frank, I appreciate your defense of the East region playoff teams.  But you seem to give no attention to the fact that the two East region teams lost by a combined total of 95 points.  I'm not knocking the East region as quite honestly, I don't know much about them being from the midwest.  But 95 points in the third round is simply too much of a disparity and shouldn't happen this deep in the playoffs.  The simple fact that the East had two teams in the third round isn't proof of their ability to play at the highest level- it's purely a function of who they played to get this far. 
I hope the East does produce a top tier team, it's good for D3 football.

Yeah and Hobart played against a Southern region team and a Northern region team to get there.  The east clearly doesn't have a team that can compete with the top 5 or 6 teams in the country.  But spare us on the strength of the regions as a whole which cannot be dictated by the presence (or lack thereof) of a couple elite teams in each region.

good points all.  as i see it, all this says is that the east does not currently nor recently had an elite, top 4 team.  i believed that from the middle of the season there was a large gap between the top 6 and the rest of the nation.  yesterday's results sort of confirm that.  #1 beats #9 by 50+, #4 beats #7 by 30 +, #2 beats #6 by 12, and #5 beats #3 in ot.  i dont think that either hobart or widener were considered top 10 teams at the start of the season but earned that ranking by how they played during the season.  the fact that both ended up in the top 10 is as much due to other presumed better teams losing while they kept winning.  i was surprised by the hobart result, not so of the widener one.  as was stated, who from the north has made the semis other than mount in the last 5 years?  the south has had wesley or umhb but no one else.  the west seems to be the best with several others besides uww.  i get to see plenty of east games since that is where i live and they have some pretty good teams, just not at the elite level.  take away mount and would the north be any different?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 02, 2012, 09:35:25 AM
Frank:  I appreciate your unwavering support for all things east, but I never said the whole region sucks.  Just that they currently lack teams that can compete with the top tier.  I strongly believe NCC's win over Cal Lutheran and a pretty competitive game against Linfield is better than Widener beating BWater St & Salisbury before getting drilled by Mount.   Ask the Whitewater guys about the strength of the 2010 NCC team that almost derailed their championship run.  Some of them believe that NCC was better than the Mount team they would beat in Salem.  And Wheaton has been a very good North Region team.  They lost to Mount in the semi-finals of 2008, but were competitive.  And I believe they've only ever lost 1 playoff game to any other team than Mount.  Wheaton is a good team that has always been a tough out.  If they'd have gotten the Pool C instead of BWater, I would bet my left nut that they'd have won their part of the bracket and been at Mount yesterday instead of Widener.

At least when SJF in 2006 and previously Rowan came to Mount, they were very competitive and made Mount play for 4 quarters.  Widener and the recent East teams (Montclair St, Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Hobart, Cortland St) have not been real close.  Not saying you need to beat Mount to get my respect, just be competitive beyond halftime.  Or at least make the game be in doubt as we head to halftime.


And I completely understand the belief that the OAC is nothing but Mount Union and a bunch of crap teams.  However the 2nd place OAC team has done quite well in the playoff and usually wins until it sees Mount again. 

OAC losses to Mount in the playoffs:
2006 - Capital lost to Mount in Round 3 (2 wins)
2005 - Capital lost to Mount in the Round 3 (2 wins)
2002  -  John Carroll  lost to Mount in the SEMI-FINALS (3 wins)
2000  - Ohio Northern lost to Mount in Round 1 (0 wins)
1999 - Ohio Northern lost to Mount in Round 2 (1 win)
1997 –  John Carroll lost to Mount in Round 2 (1 win)

OAC losses against someone else:
Baldwin Wallace to Wheaton in 2nd round of 2003 (1 win)
Capital at Whitewater in Round 1 of 2007 (UWW was Nat Champs) (0 wins)
Otterbein to Franklin in 2008 round 1 (Franklin beat NCC in 2nd round, lost to Wheaton in regional final) (0 wins)
Heidelberg this year to Wittenberg (easily the worst of the OAC losses) (0 wins)

Overall, the 2nd place OAC team is a respectable 9-10 in the playoffs.  I challenge you to find another conference where their Pool C teams have a drastically better record.  Remove their losses to Mount, they're a very respectable 9-4.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 02, 2012, 10:38:32 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 02, 2012, 09:35:25 AM
Frank:  I appreciate your unwavering support for all things east, but I never said the whole region sucks.  Just that they currently lack teams that can compete with the top tier.  I strongly believe NCC's win over Cal Lutheran and a pretty competitive game against Linfield is better than Widener beating BWater St & Salisbury before getting drilled by Mount.   Ask the Whitewater guys about the strength of the 2010 NCC team that almost derailed their championship run.  Some of them believe that NCC was better than the Mount team they would beat in Salem.  And Wheaton has been a very good North Region team.  They lost to Mount in the semi-finals of 2008, but were competitive.  And I believe they've only ever lost 1 playoff game to any other team than Mount.  Wheaton is a good team that has always been a tough out.  If they'd have gotten the Pool C instead of BWater, I would bet my left nut that they'd have won their part of the bracket and been at Mount yesterday instead of Widener.

At least when SJF in 2006 and previously Rowan came to Mount, they were very competitive and made Mount play for 4 quarters.  Widener and the recent East teams (Montclair St, Albright, Alfred, Del Valley, Hobart, Cortland St) have not been real close.  Not saying you need to beat Mount to get my respect, just be competitive beyond halftime.  Or at least make the game be in doubt as we head to halftime.


And I completely understand the belief that the OAC is nothing but Mount Union and a bunch of crap teams.  However the 2nd place OAC team has done quite well in the playoff and usually wins until it sees Mount again. 

OAC losses to Mount in the playoffs:
2006 - Capital lost to Mount in Round 3 (2 wins)
2005 - Capital lost to Mount in the Round 3 (2 wins)
2002  -  John Carroll  lost to Mount in the SEMI-FINALS (3 wins)
2000  - Ohio Northern lost to Mount in Round 1 (0 wins)
1999 - Ohio Northern lost to Mount in Round 2 (1 win)
1997 –  John Carroll lost to Mount in Round 2 (1 win)

OAC losses against someone else:
Baldwin Wallace to Wheaton in 2nd round of 2003 (1 win)
Capital at Whitewater in Round 1 of 2007 (UWW was Nat Champs) (0 wins)
Otterbein to Franklin in 2008 round 1 (Franklin beat NCC in 2nd round, lost to Wheaton in regional final) (0 wins)
Heidelberg this year to Wittenberg (easily the worst of the OAC losses) (0 wins)

Overall, the 2nd place OAC team is a respectable 9-10 in the playoffs.  I challenge you to find another conference where their Pool C teams have a drastically better record.  Remove their losses to Mount, they're a very respectable 9-4.

Well shoot remove Fisher's losses to Mount Union and we are 8-2   ;)

I would be curious to see what the E8's pool C record is (I honestly don't know if it's good or bad).  I am far too lazy to do the research however. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on December 02, 2012, 11:04:04 AM
Going off top of my head I think the E8 has had 4 pool C bids...

Fisher
2006: 3-1 (Union, SC, Rowan, MUC)
2007: 2-1 (Bart, Curry, MUC)
2011: 2-1 (Hopkins, DVC, STU)

Ithaca
2007: 0-1 (MUC)

Take out Mt Union and the E8 is 7-1 in pool C play...


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 11:36:43 AM
I don't think I singled out the OAC, so I'm not sure where that came from.  That said, if the dipstick is competitiveness against Mount Union, I think I remember just one scare since ONU beat Mount in 2005 in the school's entire OAC schedule (63 games in 7 years).  So, if you're asking me to use that as the end-all, be-all indicator, then you're really not convincing me of much.  That said, that's not how I derive relative strength since comparing results against Mount doesn't give you much statistical significance.  For instance, Widener yesterday tied the most points scored against Mount this season.  That must mean they have one of the most potent offenses in the country, right?  Hmmmm... That's the trouble you get in when you try to compare losses of 55 against losses of 25 -- it doesn't prove much.

I actually had a few OAC teams besides Mount in my ballot this season (BW, Ott, Heid).  So, I don't discount the strength overall.  However, what you're trying to focus in on is consistency -- and neither region (Mount excluded) has shown much of it.  What you're grasping at is the idea that there are a couple teams that showed glimmers of hope in the last five years in the North (Wheaton, NCC, etc.).  That begs the question:  since regions average 7-8 teams per year in the playoffs and the first two rounds generally have in-region matchups, didn't SOMEBODY have to win from the North and the East in those years?  Until last year, the regional crossover in the playoffs wasn't much to speak of, especially early on.  Since that crossover began, the East hasn't done terribly -- and if you toss out Mount in the analysis, I believe the East outperformed the North in these two years (it's either on par or better based on my quick glimpse).

I stick to my original statements yesterday -- no verdict can be drawn from yesterday about the overall relative strength from the East any more than the verdicts we've tried to reach in prior years.  My statement goes a step further, though, in saying that since the regional crossovers began last year, the East hasn't exactly, as LD would put it, dropped the deuce.  Once we get beyond Wesley, UMHB, Mount, UWW, Linfield and St. Thomas most years, there's not exactly much ability to spot the level of consistency.  The problem that we're spotting is that there is no East team in that pack of 6.  My response would be that the West was not as stacked as stated there a decade ago, so things do change as teams get better.  In five years, this conversation will be held in another region's message boards because things do change, as pointed out by another poster concerning the Rowan era.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 02, 2012, 11:58:35 AM
Frank:  I know you didn't bring up the OAC specifically, but was in general by others recently and I stuck that info into my response to you simply because I was too lazy to go hunting for posts that questioned it.  Sorry for going off on a tangent.

I guess we're both arguing the same thing, just saying it different ways and in turn, going in circles.   The East is lacking elite teams that can compete with the best of the West, North and South.  Get past the very top and I think all the regions are competitive.

Where I think we disagree is that the North has had teams really close to the top tier (Wheaton & NCC), whereas the East hasn't since Rowan. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 11:36:43 AM
I don't think I singled out the OAC, so I'm not sure where that came from.  That said, if the dipstick is competitiveness against Mount Union, I think I remember just one scare since ONU beat Mount in 2005 in the school's entire OAC schedule (63 games in 7 years).  So, if you're asking me to use that as the end-all, be-all indicator, then you're really not convincing me of much.  That said, that's not how I derive relative strength since comparing results against Mount doesn't give you much statistical significance.  For instance, Widener yesterday tied the most points scored against Mount this season.  That must mean they have one of the most potent offenses in the country, right?  Hmmmm... That's the trouble you get in when you try to compare losses of 55 against losses of 25 -- it doesn't prove much.

I actually had a few OAC teams besides Mount in my ballot this season (BW, Ott, Heid).  So, I don't discount the strength overall.  However, what you're trying to focus in on is consistency -- and neither region (Mount excluded) has shown much of it.  What you're grasping at is the idea that there are a couple teams that showed glimmers of hope in the last five years in the North (Wheaton, NCC, etc.).  That begs the question:  since regions average 7-8 teams per year in the playoffs and the first two rounds generally have in-region matchups, didn't SOMEBODY have to win from the North and the East in those years?  Until last year, the regional crossover in the playoffs wasn't much to speak of, especially early on.  Since that crossover began, the East hasn't done terribly -- and if you toss out Mount in the analysis, I believe the East outperformed the North in these two years (it's either on par or better based on my quick glimpse).

I stick to my original statements yesterday -- no verdict can be drawn from yesterday about the overall relative strength from the East any more than the verdicts we've tried to reach in prior years.  My statement goes a step further, though, in saying that since the regional crossovers began last year, the East hasn't exactly, as LD would put it, dropped the deuce.  Once we get beyond Wesley, UMHB, Mount, UWW, Linfield and St. Thomas most years, there's not exactly much ability to spot the level of consistency.  The problem that we're spotting is that there is no East team in that pack of 6.  My response would be that the West was not as stacked as stated there a decade ago, so things do change as teams get better.  In five years, this conversation will be held in another region's message boards because things do change, as pointed out by another poster concerning the Rowan era.

The dipstick isn't winning or losing vs Mt (and why do you ignore a 40 point loss to St Thomas) it's the results of the effort to make the playoffs as competitive as possible. Two teams from the East Region lost their playoff games by a combined total of 95 points- 95 points. There is only one conclusion from that result, the Committee needs to go back to the drawing board and reconsider how pairings are determined.
When there are only 8 teams remaining, it reflects negatively on D3 to have such blowouts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 11:36:43 AM
I don't think I singled out the OAC, so I'm not sure where that came from.  That said, if the dipstick is competitiveness against Mount Union, I think I remember just one scare since ONU beat Mount in 2005 in the school's entire OAC schedule (63 games in 7 years).  So, if you're asking me to use that as the end-all, be-all indicator, then you're really not convincing me of much.  That said, that's not how I derive relative strength since comparing results against Mount doesn't give you much statistical significance.  For instance, Widener yesterday tied the most points scored against Mount this season.  That must mean they have one of the most potent offenses in the country, right?  Hmmmm... That's the trouble you get in when you try to compare losses of 55 against losses of 25 -- it doesn't prove much.

I actually had a few OAC teams besides Mount in my ballot this season (BW, Ott, Heid).  So, I don't discount the strength overall.  However, what you're trying to focus in on is consistency -- and neither region (Mount excluded) has shown much of it.  What you're grasping at is the idea that there are a couple teams that showed glimmers of hope in the last five years in the North (Wheaton, NCC, etc.).  That begs the question:  since regions average 7-8 teams per year in the playoffs and the first two rounds generally have in-region matchups, didn't SOMEBODY have to win from the North and the East in those years?  Until last year, the regional crossover in the playoffs wasn't much to speak of, especially early on.  Since that crossover began, the East hasn't done terribly -- and if you toss out Mount in the analysis, I believe the East outperformed the North in these two years (it's either on par or better based on my quick glimpse).

I stick to my original statements yesterday -- no verdict can be drawn from yesterday about the overall relative strength from the East any more than the verdicts we've tried to reach in prior years.  My statement goes a step further, though, in saying that since the regional crossovers began last year, the East hasn't exactly, as LD would put it, dropped the deuce.  Once we get beyond Wesley, UMHB, Mount, UWW, Linfield and St. Thomas most years, there's not exactly much ability to spot the level of consistency.  The problem that we're spotting is that there is no East team in that pack of 6.  My response would be that the West was not as stacked as stated there a decade ago, so things do change as teams get better.  In five years, this conversation will be held in another region's message boards because things do change, as pointed out by another poster concerning the Rowan era.

The dipstick isn't winning or losing vs Mt (and why do you ignore a 40 point loss to St Thomas) it's the results of the effort to make the playoffs as competitive as possible. Two teams from the East Region lost their playoff games by a combined total of 95 points- 95 points. There is only one conclusion from that result, the Committee needs to go back to the drawing board and reconsider how pairings are determined.
When there are only 8 teams remaining, it reflects negatively on D3 to have such blowouts.

I think a grand total of 7 games out of the 28 games played so far in the playoffs have been what I'd call highly competitive based on the scoreboard alone so far.  If we extend it to the 12-point game at UMHB yesterday, I'll grant you an 8th.  No team has played competitively against Mount Union so far, regardless of region.  If you're going to use the Hobart result to taint an entire region and playoff structure, then I guess Hobart proved in the first two weeks that the East is greater than the South and the North (when Mount isn't considered).  That's basically what your post suggests.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 02, 2012, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.

Frank, I appreciate your defense of the East region playoff teams.  But you seem to give no attention to the fact that the two East region teams lost by a combined total of 95 points.  I'm not knocking the East region as quite honestly, I don't know much about them being from the midwest.  But 95 points in the third round is simply too much of a disparity and shouldn't happen this deep in the playoffs.  The simple fact that the East had two teams in the third round isn't proof of their ability to play at the highest level- it's purely a function of who they played to get this far. 
I hope the East does produce a top tier team, it's good for D3 football.


Let's not skirt the fact that the North has basically one team. And then North Central, which has been competitive in the playoffs but has yet to make a serious title run. Would you like to compare scores? Wittenberg beats Capital 44-17 and then gets beaten by Hobart 35-10. Do we seriously want to denigrate the East when clearly Wittenberg was a full tier below the best Eastern teams?

How did Franklin do? Lost 63-17 to UMHB. Is that much different than what Wesley did to Cortland, or Mount Union over Widener? And why aren't we slamming Salisbury, since Widener beat them convincingly one week prior? How did southern participants like Johns Hopkins and Christopher Newport do in the playoffs this season?

The problem with D3 Football is there are only 2 or 3 relevant championship contenders in any given year, and only a handful more which can compete with the Top 2. The drop-off between #5 and #15 is ridiculously steep. And for the last decade, one could argue that the drop-off between #1 and #5 was just as steep.

As much as I detest the BCS system, the BCS division is much more interesting to watch on a national scale. Just in the last few weeks I have watched Texas A&M stun Alabama on the road, Baylor destroy an unbeaten Kansas State, and a supposedly unbeatable Oregon team go down. Heck nobody has taken Notre Dame seriously for almost 2 decades and they are about to play for the National Championship. Can you imagine Wittenberg going on the road and beating Mount Union? How about some D3 team coming from nowhere in 2013 to play for the NCAA Championship? No, I can't imagine it either.

I love D3, but beyond following my own team, their conference, and their trophy game, D3 football doesn't interest me that much anymore. It's not sour grapes. It's simply...boring. Great for Mount Union fans I'm sure, and great for UWW for the last several years too, but dreadfully dull for a lot of us.  It shouldn't be so easy to predict national champions in August, and that doesn't bode well for long term interest in the product.

The only light at the end of the tunnel I can see is that there are 4 strong teams at the finish this season. That's not something we have seen a lot of in recent memory. Between Oshkosh, UMHB, MUC, and St Thomas, I think you can make an interesting argument for any of the 4 as being the team to beat. But once you get past those Top 4, who is competitive with the eventual champion? Anybody?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 02, 2012, 02:39:13 PM
I'd say likely Linfield this season ...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 02, 2012, 02:43:08 PM
You may be right about that, but we'll see how Oshkosh does now that the Final 4 is set.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 02, 2012, 03:00:19 PM
Dlip did over react yesterday and has had some time to reflect and most importantly, relax. To dlip there is very little if no way to really compare the regions. What makes most sense to dlip is the tiers. You have the top which consists of 5-6 teams out of ****ing 238. Then the second tier, which in itself can really be broken into 2 tier (ex. Wesley and Salisbury). Looking at these two, the Gulls are  consistently competitive with the Wolverines yet can't get over the hump. The Gulls then lose to a Widener team whom dlip feels would get  homogenized by Wesley. Then tier three which consists of like maybe 100 teams, and another 100 or so in tier 4. Maybe even some in a lowest tier, who knows???

The bottom line for our beloved east is that we are a touch im the second, mostly in the third, some fourth, and some in the fifth tier. **** dlip could tier all day! We are strong across tier three IDHO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 02, 2012, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 02, 2012, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: emma17 on December 02, 2012, 02:37:57 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 02, 2012, 12:32:29 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
Not a good showing in my opinion.  What signature win did the east win?  And against the #1 seeds then best of the east were not competitive.

Not saying region isn't solid overall, but it severely lacks elite teams.

This would make more sense if the following wasn't the breakdown of today's participants:

East - 2
South - 2
West - 3
North - 1

If the North is going to live and die by the fortunes of Mount Union every year, then I question the logic of undercutting the East to that degree today.

Frank, I appreciate your defense of the East region playoff teams.  But you seem to give no attention to the fact that the two East region teams lost by a combined total of 95 points.  I'm not knocking the East region as quite honestly, I don't know much about them being from the midwest.  But 95 points in the third round is simply too much of a disparity and shouldn't happen this deep in the playoffs.  The simple fact that the East had two teams in the third round isn't proof of their ability to play at the highest level- it's purely a function of who they played to get this far. 
I hope the East does produce a top tier team, it's good for D3 football.


Let's not skirt the fact that the North has basically one team. And then North Central, which has been competitive in the playoffs but has yet to make a serious title run. Would you like to compare scores? Wittenberg beats Capital 44-17 and then gets beaten by Hobart 35-10. Do we seriously want to denigrate the East when clearly Wittenberg was a full tier below the best Eastern teams?

How did Franklin do? Lost 63-17 to UMHB. Is that much different than what Wesley did to Cortland, or Mount Union over Widener? And why aren't we slamming Salisbury, since Widener beat them convincingly one week prior? How did southern participants like Johns Hopkins and Christopher Newport do in the playoffs this season?

The problem with D3 Football is there are only 2 or 3 relevant championship contenders in any given year, and only a handful more which can compete with the Top 2. The drop-off between #5 and #15 is ridiculously steep. And for the last decade, one could argue that the drop-off between #1 and #5 was just as steep.

As much as I detest the BCS system, the BCS division is much more interesting to watch on a national scale. Just in the last few weeks I have watched Texas A&M stun Alabama on the road, Baylor destroy an unbeaten Kansas State, and a supposedly unbeatable Oregon team go down. Heck nobody has taken Notre Dame seriously for almost 2 decades and they are about to play for the National Championship. Can you imagine Wittenberg going on the road and beating Mount Union? How about some D3 team coming from nowhere in 2013 to play for the NCAA Championship? No, I can't imagine it either.

I love D3, but beyond following my own team, their conference, and their trophy game, D3 football doesn't interest me that much anymore. It's not sour grapes. It's simply...boring. Great for Mount Union fans I'm sure, and great for UWW for the last several years too, but dreadfully dull for a lot of us.  It shouldn't be so easy to predict national champions in August, and that doesn't bode well for long term interest in the product.

The only light at the end of the tunnel I can see is that there are 4 strong teams at the finish this season. That's not something we have seen a lot of in recent memory. Between Oshkosh, UMHB, MUC, and St Thomas, I think you can make an interesting argument for any of the 4 as being the team to beat. But once you get past those Top 4, who is competitive with the eventual champion? Anybody?

IMHO, I think that the difference between being "ELITE" within these top teams is the coaching, there is talent on every team and don't get me wrong, some teams clearly have more talented players than others. However, when it comes to the playoffs, I believe that difference between close games and blowouts is either talent disparity, a team plays really bad and has a bad day, or the coaching. For example, Salisbury lost its game due to being very one dimensional offensively and early turnovers, there was no talent disparity between us and Widener.

If you look at the remaining four teams, they are well balance as far as running and passing. Now between those teams going forward, it comes down to defense. As for the four teams that loss this past weekend, Widener was one-dimensional, Wesley was somewhat one-dimensional. If you take away that big run in the first, Hobart was one-dimensional. Now out of the four games this past weekend two were competitive. Let's look at the Linfield vs UW-Oshkosh game, each teams appeared to be well-balance complemented with great coaching and great talent, therefore as many expected, it being a great game. Next, the UMHB vs. Wesley game, Wesley was very one-dimensional (ran more than the first game) especially in the redzone, but was complimented with a great defense (better than many expected). Then there is the games that east teams played in, I believe there was a coaching experience gap between the east teams and their opponents, complimented with each team being one-dimensional, being one-dimensional just doesn't bode well when playing late in the playoffs. I believe the Guru's wrote up a great analysis early in the year that explained certain teams faired in the playoffs base on their style of play. I believe that if you are not clearly better than the other team your facing, you can't afford to be one-dimensional.

Now as far as the seedings concerned, I would like to see some head-to-head results for the year, before saying that a region is clearly better than another. It may be some team from a certain region is just better than everyone else.

If we look at this year's playoff (which says nothing):

East vs. South: 1-2
East vs. West: 0-1
East vs. North: 1-1
South vs. North: 1-2
South vs. West: 0-0
West vs. North: 2-2

Overall: East 2-4, West 3-2, South 3-3, and North 5-4
East losses: Wesley (2), UST (1), and MUC (1)
West losses: North Central (Ill.) (1), Elmhurst (1)
South Losses: Hobart (1), MUC (2)
North Losses: Linfield (1), Hobart (1), UST (1), and UMHB (1)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 02, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
The North is more competitive than you guys are giving them credit for. Elmhurst gave UST a great game. That's the third best team in the CCIW. NCC is a solid team. Wheaton didn't make the field, but would have been a prime candidate to win at least a game, if not two and been playing this past weekend.

The South has an elite team (UMHB) and a very good team (Wesley).

The West has 3 'elite' teams. UST, UWO and Linfield (they took their quarterfinal game to OT). By comparison, Hobart lost by a similar margin to UST as Bethel did. Did Hobart play it's best game, probably not...neither did Bethel. UST does that to you.

I think the difference is that every other region has elite level teams and other schools that are competitive with those elite teams. The East definitely has some good teams. But they don't have any elite teams or teams that can push or play with an elite team. And they haven't for some time. Again, there are good teams in the region. But I think there is a lack of top teams as well as depth of very good teams.

The teams that finish 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the WIAC, MIAC, NWC, CCIW, OAC, etc. seem much better than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place teams in the E8, LL or NJAC. And the conference champions of the non-East elite conferences are all Final Four or Stagg threats in most years. Several of the 2nd place teams in these conferences would have arguments that they could be undefeated in the East, given the results of recent years.

I'd love to see what North Central, Elmhurst, Wheaton, Bethel, UWP, Concordia-Moorhead, PLU or Coe could have done against Hobart and Widener. We'll never know. And I don't think Hobart and Widener would lose all or even most. But none of those teams are 'elite' North or West teams. And I think yesterday showed that several would have had every chance of beating Hobart or Widener.

Again, this isn't to conclude that the East is bad. But it is definitely the outlier of the 4 regions.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 02, 2012, 09:05:37 PM
Quote from: hazzben on December 02, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
The North is more competitive than you guys are giving them credit for. Elmhurst gave UST a great game. That's the third best team in the CCIW. NCC is a solid team. Wheaton didn't make the field, but would have been a prime candidate to win at least a game, if not two and been playing this past weekend.

The South has an elite team (UMHB) and a very good team (Wesley).

The West has 3 'elite' teams. UST, UWO and Linfield (they took their quarterfinal game to OT). By comparison, Hobart lost by a similar margin to UST as Bethel did. Did Hobart play it's best game, probably not...neither did Bethel. UST does that to you.

I think the difference is that every other region has elite level teams and other schools that are competitive with those elite teams. The East definitely has some good teams. But they don't have any elite teams or teams that can push or play with an elite team. And they haven't for some time. Again, there are good teams in the region. But I think there is a lack of top teams as well as depth of very good teams.

The teams that finish 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the WIAC, MIAC, NWC, CCIW, OAC, etc. seem much better than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place teams in the E8, LL or NJAC. And the conference champions of the non-East elite conferences are all Final Four or Stagg threats in most years. Several of the 2nd place teams in these conferences would have arguments that they could be undefeated in the East, given the results of recent years.

I'd love to see what North Central, Elmhurst, Wheaton, Bethel, UWP, Concordia-Moorhead, PLU or Coe could have done against Hobart and Widener. We'll never know. And I don't think Hobart and Widener would lose all or even most. But none of those teams are 'elite' North or West teams. And I think yesterday showed that several would have had every chance of beating Hobart or Widener.

Again, this isn't to conclude that the East is bad. But it is definitely the outlier of the 4 regions.

The team that finished tied for second in the WIAC, Whitewater, lost to the team in a giant log jam for 3rd place in the E8 in Buff State. The second place team in the OAC couldn't even advance to the second round.  But the team that soundly defeated Heidelberg in the first round got smoked by Hobart.  Your line about the conference champions of the elite conferences being Stagg threats isn't really saying anything new as those are the conferences that have the 5 of 6 teams that we've been saying are elite all along.  It's not like Mount Union is coming out of the ECFC.  It's like you guys refuse to acknowledge the Southern and Northern conference champions or pool C's that we've beaten the past 2 years when they started crossing over more and only want to focus on how we lose to the huge teams we already said we cannot beat at this time. 

I will say the margin of defeat is probably your most compelling argument as to relative strength of conferences.  But looking at the MIAC for instance arguing oh hey we only lost to St. Thomas by 3 touchdowns where you lost by 5 isn't exactly enough science for me to say they'd run a train through our conference.  Also consider that a trip to St. Paul Minnesota is a different experience for our teams (and not exactly a hop skip and jump away) whereas you play against them year in and year out.  There is familiarity there. 

 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 02, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
The problem with the comparison scores is that people use it selectively...

I don't remember the East Region getting credit from non-east people when a third-place E8 team scored more points in one playoff game against Mount that the ENTIRE OAC did to that point. (Ithaca in 2007). It took an East region team less than a quarter to score a touchdown against a first team defense that hadn't been scored on all year and was supposedly invincible. And then they did it again the next quarter. And again later.

Was anyone outside of the East fans on these boards touting how good the East teams were because of that game? Or when Cortland followed that by giving Mount the closest game of their 2008 season to that point?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2012, 09:42:08 PM
Booby and Bombers, since we're picking and choosing our examples, I'll join in!  Yes, Heidi, whom most of us thought to be the second or third best team in the north got rolled by Witt, which got totally rolled by Hobart.  (Either we were VERY wrong about Heidi, or they totally laid an egg.)  But Elmhurst (a tri-champion of the CCIW, but generally considered the least of the three) lost at UST by 7; Hobart lost by 40.

I'm not an East basher (there just are not enough inter-regional games to say much about all but the 'elite' teams, who meet each other in the last 2-3 rounds of the playoffs), but the North is NOT just Mount and a bunch of red-headed step-children.  A number of teams can compete with anyone (besides Elmhurst at UST, NCC beat #8 Cal Lu on the road, and might have beaten Linfield on the road if not for a bad case of the 'dropsies' [SEVEN TOs, several unforced]; Wheaton was probably better than Elmhurst but was not selected for the tourney, and IWU was undefeated and ranked #12 in the country before injuries decimated them - and that is JUST the CCIW).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 02, 2012, 10:56:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 02, 2012, 09:42:08 PM
Booby and Bombers, since we're picking and choosing our examples, I'll join in!  Yes, Heidi, whom most of us thought to be the second or third best team in the north got rolled by Witt, which got totally rolled by Hobart.  (Either we were VERY wrong about Heidi, or they totally laid an egg.)  But Elmhurst (a tri-champion of the CCIW, but generally considered the least of the three) lost at UST by 7; Hobart lost by 40.

I'm not an East basher (there just are not enough inter-regional games to say much about all but the 'elite' teams, who meet each other in the last 2-3 rounds of the playoffs), but the North is NOT just Mount and a bunch of red-headed step-children.  A number of teams can compete with anyone (besides Elmhurst at UST, NCC beat #8 Cal Lu on the road, and might have beaten Linfield on the road if not for a bad case of the 'dropsies' [SEVEN TOs, several unforced]; Wheaton was probably better than Elmhurst but was not selected for the tourney, and IWU was undefeated and ranked #12 in the country before injuries decimated them - and that is JUST the CCIW).

I don't have a problem if people want to rank regions on strength, or that the East region is considered the weakest, even. But my point on bringing up the IC game is score comparisons are really useless. Beyond the fact that scores can be misleading for a variety of reasons, anyone can pick a handful of games that give them the answer they want. Lord knows we've seen East region teams get destroyed on the national stage, often by Mount. But let's not pretend the East just never shows up, ever.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 03, 2012, 10:11:09 AM
I am uncertain why we are debating regional strength at all these days. The regional bracket has all but disappeared, and brackets are now headlined by the top 4 seeds (or close to that) regardless of region. The only reason some semblance of region still exists in the playoffs is to cut down on travel cost in round 1. After round 1, it is a free-for-all.

Are any of the "out of region posters" suggesting that the East teams should not have been in the playoffs? Of course not. Every East team still alive after the first round clearly belonged in the playoffs. If you don't like seeing them in the Elite 8, then beat them before they make it there. If you want to argue about the merits of the ECFC, then you can feel free to preach to the converted. It matters not. The NCAA wants them in, so they are in. It's not an Eastern thing, it's an NCAA thing.

I spent most of Saturday afternoon watching the video feed of Wesley-UMHB, so I have no idea what St Thomas-Hobart looked like to the naked eye. Statistically it appeared to be very one-sided, and so I feel no compelling argument can be made that Hobart is close to St Thomas on a national scale. However, I do feel the score would have been closer had St. Thomas been asked to travel across the country to play Hobart, rather than the other way around. To some degree, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy when we rank a few elite teams as top seeds, and then allow them home field advantage until the Final Four.

That doesn't mean I think Widener would give Mount Union a good game at home. But I think the lopsided nature of these scores is exacerbated by forcing one set of teams to constantly prove themselves on the road.

I also think far more than coaching separates the top 4 teams from the top 25 teams. I watched the Wesley-Cortland feed, and I didn't feel more than 5 Cortland kids could legitimately have started for Wesley. Wish I could say I felt differently, but it looked like a talent mismatch, especially on the lines.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
Why is everyone ready to jump off of a bridge about the 'East' region.  Mount Union kills everyone.  St. Thomas has pretty much killed everyone, and MHB pretty much has killed everyone.

It's not a Regional thing going on.  There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them.  Just because they happen to be in a particular part of the country means nothing.  They are just good.  It doesn't mean the Region is dominant, it means they have a good team. 

Look at MHB in 2008:
Round 1 they beat a 9-1 Wesley 46-14
Round 2 they beat an 11-1 W&J 63-7
Then in Round 3 they lose to UWW 39-13

I can give so many of these similar examples with UWW and Mt Union.  This year, it appears maybe St. Thomas IS that calibur too.  MHB definitely is, as well as Mt. Union(as always - and may have one of their better teams ever this year).  UW Osh-Kosh B'Gosh will probably get SMOKED by St. Thomas next week, and Mt. Union very well could roll MHB. 

This is not a regional issue.  1-4ish in the rankings are just typically a different calibur than the rest.  For those ranked 5-8, does it matter what Region they are in?  No, because the results would usually be the same against those top teams. 

The East won't/shouldn't be punished at all.  I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?

I just have a really hard time saying the 'North', 'West', or 'South' are dominant Regions because they've produced some good teams.  I think the top teams in the East would do JUST fine in the ASC, WIAC or OAC. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:24:40 PM
watching the St. Thomas against St. John Fisher and Hobart, there is a big difference in talent, speed and strength at nearly every position.  The St. Thomas players last year were quoted as noticing the large gap in athletic talent between the MIAC-WIAC and Fisher. 

I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

I'm not saying there should be less playoff bids for the East region or anything like that, just giving my subjective observations.  Hopefully the East will produce a national power like Rowan again soon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SUADC on December 03, 2012, 12:28:15 PM
Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:24:40 PM
watching the St. Thomas against St. John Fisher and Hobart, there is a big difference in talent, speed and strength at nearly every position.  The St. Thomas players last year were quoted as noticing the large gap in athletic talent between the MIAC-WIAC and Fisher. 

I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

I'm not saying there should be less playoff bids for the East region or anything like that, just giving my subjective observations.  Hopefully the East will produce a national power like Rowan again soon.

The same way Buff State who lost to Salisbury that loss to Widener, but beat UW-W who beat UW-Platteville.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:32:55 PM
Quote from: SUADC on December 03, 2012, 12:28:15 PM
Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:24:40 PM
watching the St. Thomas against St. John Fisher and Hobart, there is a big difference in talent, speed and strength at nearly every position.  The St. Thomas players last year were quoted as noticing the large gap in athletic talent between the MIAC-WIAC and Fisher. 

I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

I'm not saying there should be less playoff bids for the East region or anything like that, just giving my subjective observations.  Hopefully the East will produce a national power like Rowan again soon.

The same way Buff State who lost to Salisbury that loss to Widener, but beat UW-W who beat UW-Platteville.
yeah, well....
Div III   WI Platteville   beat    WI LaCrosse   40 - 10
   Div III   WI LaCrosse   beat    N Central IL   21 - 17
   Div III   N Central IL   beat    Cal Lutheran   41 - 21
   Div III   Cal Lutheran   beat    Pac Lutheran   37 - 23
   Div III   Pac Lutheran   beat    Willamette   41 - 27
   Div III   Willamette   beat    Hardin-Simmons   58 - 34
   Div III   Hardin-Simmons   beat    Texas Col   57 - 21
   NAIA   Texas Col   beat    Concordia AL   31 - 20
   USCAA   Concordia AL   beat    MS Valley St   20 - 19
   Div I - FCS   MS Valley St   beat    Southern Univ   6 - 0
   Div I - FCS   Southern Univ   beat    Florida A&M   21 - 14
   Div I - FCS   Florida A&M   beat    Hampton   44 - 20
   Div I - FCS   Hampton   beat    Norfolk St   28 - 14
   Div I - FCS   Norfolk St   beat    Liberty   31 - 24
   Div I - FCS   Liberty   beat    Stony Brook   28 - 14
   Div I - FCS   Stony Brook   beat    Army   23 - 3
   Div I - FBS   Army   beat    Boston College   34 - 31
   Div I - FBS   Boston College   beat    Maryland   20 - 17
   Div I - FBS   Maryland   beat    Wake Forest   19 - 14
   Div I - FBS   Wake Forest   beat    North Carolina   28 - 27
   Div I - FBS   North Carolina   is better than    LSU   because North Carolina beat Idaho 66 - 0
while LSU only beat Idaho 63 - 14
   Div I - FBS   LSU   beat    Texas A&M   24 - 19
   Div I - FBS   Texas A&M   beat    Alabama   29 - 24
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2012, 12:36:38 PM
While AO has WAY too much time on his hands.


...and that brings it back to Kevin Bacon.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 03, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?

However ... another way to look at the regions is by the number of different teams from the same region that have won title since Ithaca in 1991. A lot of these teams were at one point "Tier 2" but found a way to rise.

WEST
UW-LAX (2)
PLU
SJU
Linfield
UWW (4)
NORTH
Mount (10)
Albion



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: repete on December 03, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?

However ... another way to look at the regions is by the number of different teams from the same region that have won title since Ithaca in 1991. A lot of these teams were at one point "Tier 2" but found a way to rise.

WEST
UW-LAX (2)
PLU
SJU
Linfield
UWW (4)
NORTH
Mount (10)
Albion

Yeah but how sustained are any of those?  Some of those teams aren't even playoff quality right now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 03, 2012, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:24:40 PM
watching the St. Thomas against St. John Fisher and Hobart, there is a big difference in talent, speed and strength at nearly every position.  The St. Thomas players last year were quoted as noticing the large gap in athletic talent between the MIAC-WIAC and Fisher. 

I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

I'm not saying there should be less playoff bids for the East region or anything like that, just giving my subjective observations.  Hopefully the East will produce a national power like Rowan again soon.

Yeah they can totally tell based off one game too.  I don't know where you get your strength information on.  Did they do a bench pressing competition before the game?  It certainly wasn't the case of Fisher being physically dominated by St. Thomas.  Size was not our issue that day.  But back to your ridiculous assertion for a moment that there was a large talent gap between Fisher and the MIAC-WIAC.  So let's see Fisher lost after traveling half the country by 35.  With an injured QB mind you and like it or not with St. Thomas pulling out a trick play and airing it out at the end of the game with it already in hand.  I don't care that they did it, whatever we couldn't stop it.  But it wasn't like we were down 60 and battled our way back in the end to shrink the margin to 35.  It expanded to that margin late. 

So with your statement how do you explain St. John's who lost to them by 56 points and finished 3rd in the conference standings?  How do you explain St. Olaf who lost to them by 35 points as well and finished tied for 2nd in the MIAC?  Oh that's right you can't.  Unless maybe those teams are allowed to have bad games but we aren't allowed to?  Maybe that's it? 

You guys just like to act like St. Thomas never blew out an opponent before they play against a team from the east.  We would do just fine in the MIAC and WIAC.  We wouldn't win it as we couldn't beat a team like St. Thomas or Whitewater last year (and you are a fool if you think teams in the E8 couldn't beat Whitewater this year...since well we did).  But don't say because of a blowout loss that we are sooooo inferior to your conference.  Give me a break.   

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 03, 2012, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: repete on December 03, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?

However ... another way to look at the regions is by the number of different teams from the same region that have won title since Ithaca in 1991. A lot of these teams were at one point "Tier 2" but found a way to rise.

WEST
UW-LAX (2)
PLU
SJU
Linfield
UWW (4)
NORTH
Mount (10)
Albion

Yeah but how sustained are any of those?  Some of those teams aren't even playoff quality right now.
They're all playoff quality if they played in the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:32:55 PM
Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: repete on December 03, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?

However ... another way to look at the regions is by the number of different teams from the same region that have won title since Ithaca in 1991. A lot of these teams were at one point "Tier 2" but found a way to rise.

WEST
UW-LAX (2)
PLU
SJU
Linfield
UWW (4)
NORTH
Mount (10)
Albion

Yeah but how sustained are any of those?  Some of those teams aren't even playoff quality right now.
They're all playoff quality if they played in the East.

Well you just went and lost any credibility that we may have given you.  Move along now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:42:00 PM
Then again, I guess if I had just looked at your karma rating, I would have figured it out. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 03, 2012, 02:45:39 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:32:55 PM
Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: repete on December 03, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
There are always 2-4 really f'ing good teams and no one fares well against them. 

I think the East probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region.  They just haven't produced a Tier 1 team in 10-12 years.(but the Tier 1's have been the same pretty much throughout that time frame)

Co-sign on the first part.

And honestly, I think this second part is really interesting. There's more to "strength" than having a team be a legit national title contender. The Empire 8 is annually considered one of the best conferences in D-III, and really, the 2006 Fisher team was probably the only one that had a realistic shot at a title. So why can't this logic be extended to regions as well?

However ... another way to look at the regions is by the number of different teams from the same region that have won title since Ithaca in 1991. A lot of these teams were at one point "Tier 2" but found a way to rise.

WEST
UW-LAX (2)
PLU
SJU
Linfield
UWW (4)
NORTH
Mount (10)
Albion

Yeah but how sustained are any of those?  Some of those teams aren't even playoff quality right now.
They're all playoff quality if they played in the East.

Well you just went and lost any credibility that we may have given you.  Move along now.
I've watched St. John's and Hobart play St. Thomas.  The Johnnies appeared to me to be faster and more balanced than Hobart.  It goes beyond score comparison, though obviously the Johnnies are better there too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Showing the list of champions since 1991 reinforces Lew's point.

Thirteen of the last 16 titles were won by two schools.  You can extend the period of comparison back 21 years to get more variety, but some teams that get added haven't been national title contenders in over a decade. 

Drop Albion and UW-La Crosse whose last title came before most of their current players entered kindergarten. That leaves you with Mount Union, UW-Whitewater and a few teams from the west who broke through for a year. That's a good summary of Division III's truly elite programs since 2000.

The west region has more than one title winner, which shows its capacity to generate title contenders.  That makes sense given that the WIAC, MIAC and NWC are part of that region.  But no one on that list demonstrates the region's ability to generate sustained elite play except for Whitewater.  As good as the West region is, only one team besides UWW has played in the Stagg Bowl multiple times (SJU) and that program hasn't been tier two for a couple seasons now. 

That list doesn't provide much more to measure the regions' comparative strength.  There's nothing in that list to suggest any North team other than Mount Union is elite. You have to rely on the more subjective analysis for that ("I saw X and Y play Mount Union and lose by multiple touchdowns and X is definitely better.")

Until we see someone actually beat Mount Union and reach the Stagg Bowl multiple times, we won't know if there's a new elite team to challenge Mount Union or if this is just a return to the pre-Whitewater era when Mount squashed a different team in the Stagg Bowl each year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on December 03, 2012, 02:56:39 PM
The biggest talent gap we noticed in watching the game Saturday btw HOB and UST was the speed and closing abilities of the Tommies DBs.  Their special teams players (punter and FG PK) were also better than their HOB counterparts.  Otherwise both the OL and DLs for both teams were similar in size and strength.  Webb is a better RB than Braddock IMO, O'Connell and Strang seemed pretty even talent wise too.

Bad games happen, it's just a shame when it's at this level of visibility.  Not saying Hobart wins the game if it's played again (in fact they'd probably lose by a couple of scores), but it wouldn't have gotten so out of hand if so many bad plays and breaks (losing #5) didn't happen all at once so early in the game.  The Statesmen return a good deal of players from this year's team and should be ranked in the Top 10 going into the preseason, and deservedly so. 

We predicted a UST-UMU Stagg Bowl on ITH last night (check out the 12/2 archive), so there's no shame to losing to the potential national champs / runner up.  It's just a shame HOB played so poorly on their biggest stage, but knowing Coach Cragg, they'll learn from their mistakes and move on. 

Keep in mind UST wasn't exactly a world beater 4 years ago.  That fact should give all teams, not just HOB and WID, hope.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2012, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 02:46:32 PM

Thirteen of the last 16 titles were won by two schools. 

And not much seems to be changing either. It's also worth pointing out that Mount especially, has been practically untouchable in many playoff runs after finishing the year undefeated. Heck, Jim Butterfield took the Bombers to seven Stagg Bowls and Ithaca NEVER finished undefeated with him as the Head Coach. They certainly were never perceived as invincible the way Mount has been.

This blows my mind: Ithaca's best point differential in any season under Butterfield was +326. That's less than HALF of what Mount Union's was in 2007.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on December 03, 2012, 03:34:57 PM
I'd really dispute this physical domination concept on the game.  UST had one drive in the first half that went for more than 50 yards (66 yards in the second quarter), on their first three touchdowns they gained 81 yards (avg of 27 per score), and yet were up 32-7 at the half.  UST's D did a number on our offense, for sure, but as I've seen all year long, you get a lead and the other team starts to panic (which we did) and play that way and the D can pin their ears back and get after it with a nice lead.  Even drive where we forced a punt we gave up a free first down via offsides that leads to four more plays for the defense.  This lead to Hobart's being on the field way too much and the game was over at halftime (really after the first two scores early IMO).  I've never seen our D in the past two years with their hands on their hips, including at Wesley last year, which is a comparable team (unless somehow last year's Wesley team wasn't on par, but I'd like to see that case being made).  That's when I knew our luck had run out, but it was very much situation/game specific.  I don't think a lot can gleaned beyond that other than that they came to play and we didn't. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
QuoteAnd not much seems to be changing either. It's also worth pointing out that Mount especially, has been practically untouchable in many playoff runs after finishing the year undefeated. Heck, Jim Butterfield took the Bombers to seven Stagg Bowls and Ithaca NEVER finished undefeated with him as the Head Coach. They certainly were never perceived as invincible the way Mount has been.

Last season I raised this same point with Bill Manlove, an Assistant Coach with Delaware Valley who won two national titles as the Head Coach at Widener (1977, 1981).  He made the same observation as Bombers after watching Mount Union demolish Del Val in person. As good as his Widener teams were, they were never as dominant as Mount Union. 

He thought that the recent Delaware Valley teams were just as talented as as his national champions at Widener.  And Delaware Valley has arguably never been a Tier 2 team (someone who will challenge Mount Union or UWW), except maybe 2005.

That tells you something about how Division III football has changed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 03, 2012, 03:59:01 PM
In my opinion, other than LK (which is the main reason), and that success breeds success, one of the biggest reasons Mount has taken this "next step" is their ability to recruit Florida.  Not that every "speed kid" they have has come from Florida, but it certainly has upped the talent level overall.  You take the traditionally strong NE Ohio football area, and mix in about 1/2 dozen Florida kids, and put them with the best coach in D-III.  Now that is a recipe for continued success.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 03, 2012, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Showing the list of champions since 1991 reinforces Lew's point.


Only if you're wearing East/South blinders. I extended back to LAX because that followed the final East title.

Then where are all of champions from the East (or South)? Apparently, it's just a crazy coincidence.

That a number of West have won Staggs speaks to the depth of the region. It's tougher to sustain Tier I when you've got that depth at the top.

In the East it seems there's always one team carrying the hopes of that region. I do have to laugh about references to "the Rowan era" in this discussion. How can you have an era without a title? Even so, Rowan absorbed one its worst Stagg defeats to the No. 7 West seed. And in all playoff games vs. the West, Rowan was outscored 149-42.


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 03, 2012, 04:05:17 PM
Geez, Goordon, you ding me for going back to UW-LAX, then you draw back to the Widener titles??? :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 03, 2012, 04:11:06 PM
Speaking as someone who has witnessed over 95% of Mount Union's games since 1992, the overall talent level of D3 has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since the Mount run has begun.  Just like the NFL, big time college down to the high school level, the players are bigger/stronger/faster than they were 20 years ago.   

The 1997 Mount team was by far the greatest and most dominant in their history, with a senior QB that threw 61 TDs against 2 INTs and a nasty defense, but they would get beat by the recent Mount teams simply because the size, strength and speed along the lines of scrimmage are so much different than they were in the late 90's.  The skill people are similar, but there is a huge difference in the O and D lines.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 03, 2012, 04:22:13 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on December 03, 2012, 02:56:39 PM
The biggest talent gap we noticed in watching the game Saturday btw HOB and UST was the speed and closing abilities of the Tommies DBs.  Their special teams players (punter and FG PK) were also better than their HOB counterparts.  Otherwise both the OL and DLs for both teams were similar in size and strength.  Webb is a better RB than Braddock IMO, O'Connell and Strang seemed pretty even talent wise too.

Bad games happen, it's just a shame when it's at this level of visibility.  Not saying Hobart wins the game if it's played again (in fact they'd probably lose by a couple of scores), but it wouldn't have gotten so out of hand if so many bad plays and breaks (losing #5) didn't happen all at once so early in the game.  The Statesmen return a good deal of players from this year's team and should be ranked in the Top 10 going into the preseason, and deservedly so. 

We predicted a UST-UMU Stagg Bowl on ITH last night (check out the 12/2 archive), so there's no shame to losing to the potential national champs / runner up.  It's just a shame HOB played so poorly on their biggest stage, but knowing Coach Cragg, they'll learn from their mistakes and move on. 


Their front 7 on D also took it to your Oline. And I wouldn't put Strang in the same class as O'Connell. And O'Connell is still young.

The UST WR's were also better. IMO, the only place Hobart had players that compared was on the Dline. And they had some good ones there. Webb is a nice back, running behind a lesser line than Braddock. So I'd probably concede he's better. But Braddock is also a frosh.

Bottom line. I think Hobart and SJF, who I've seen play UST the last two years had nice teams. But it's not just that I don't think they'd win the MIAC - obviously they weren't going to beat UST. It's that I think they'd find themselves in a dog fight with other good teams to finish second (Bethel, St. Olaf, Concordia-Moorhead). And that is the difference between the regions. Your best teams would be in a battle for second place in multiple top conferences from other regions.

And UST hasn't beaten UWO yet. Someone on here said they expected UST to blow UWO out of the water. I'd be surprised if that happened. UWO v. UST is gonna be a dogfight. Which again speaks to the depth of that region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on December 03, 2012, 04:29:13 PM
All these posts have made for some fun reading for me, so thanks guys. But I swear I could cut and past half of them from the year before and the year before that (prior to that I couldn't tell you as I wasn't here).

The funny thing is, I don't actually think there is much of an argument. Everyone says basically the same thing. The East has no top tier team (the 4-6 with a legitimate shot to win the Stagg in any given year) and then the question comes do they have a bunch of tier two or tier three teams and how many of those do other regions have.

Since it's almost impossible to define the tiers, it's pretty much impossible to end the argument. Suffice to say, a team or two from the East will advance to the final 8 every year since the tournament is loosely scheduled for geography.

Those teams are then going to face the top tier and lose badly. Oddly enough this is pretty much like most other teams in all other regions do when they face the top teams. It just looks a lot worse late in the playoffs then, for example, when UMU demolishes the second or third place OAC team in weeks 3-11... And yes, I know UMU doesn't always demolish the second place OAC team, but it happens quite a bit with a team that hasn't lost their conference in 20 years...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 03, 2012, 04:34:33 PM
There's nothing in that list to suggest any North team other than Mount Union is elite. You have to rely on the more subjective analysis for that ("I saw X and Y play Mount Union and lose by multiple touchdowns and X is definitely better.")
----------------------

Wasn't saying that any team was elite. It was a list of regions that produced champions. And those that didn't.
---

jknrezek, hazz, hscoach  -- true dat, dat and dat.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 03, 2012, 05:05:56 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 03, 2012, 04:11:06 PM
Speaking as someone who has witnessed over 95% of Mount Union's games since 1992, the overall talent level of D3 has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since the Mount run has begun.  Just like the NFL, big time college down to the high school level, the players are bigger/stronger/faster than they were 20 years ago.   

The 1997 Mount team was by far the greatest and most dominant in their history, with a senior QB that threw 61 TDs against 2 INTs and a nasty defense, but they would get beat by the recent Mount teams simply because the size, strength and speed along the lines of scrimmage are so much different than they were in the late 90's.  The skill people are similar, but there is a huge difference in the O and D lines.

Couldn't agree with this more.

D3 football has come a long ways. One factor is just the increased popularity of football. The guys who played 30 years ago were kids in the 60's and 70's, a time when baseball still dominated the nations attention. The participation levels of HS football are through the roof right now with the burgeoning popularity of the game.

Also, Title IX and scholarship reductions at FBS schools has a major trickle down affect. Every single team is offering dozens fewer scholarship now. Guys who used to get offers to Alabama are now playing at Kent State...and on down the line. Your typical D3 player is just a lot better.

And the caliber of HS football has also increased. Plenty of teams still run option offenses of various stripes. But in general, the complexity has increased and the passing game is integral to many HS programs. This means kids at every position come in better equipped at passing, running routes, pass pro, pass rush and defending the pass. The makes the learning curve a lot quicker for players.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 05:13:59 PM
QuoteOnly if you're wearing East/South blinders. I extended back to LAX because that followed the final East title.

I don't have any delusions about the East or South being as strong as the West.  It isn't. 

My comment was in reference to your scale.  If you don't include Albion's titles that are almost 20 years old, you have one team plus one region winning championships and three regions contributing nothing.  If three of four regions measure zero on the scale, it's not a very useful scale. That was my point.

If your point is the West region is best, then point taken and agreed.  It doesn't show me anything else.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 03, 2012, 05:35:38 PM
Quote from: hazzben on December 03, 2012, 05:05:56 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 03, 2012, 04:11:06 PM
Speaking as someone who has witnessed over 95% of Mount Union's games since 1992, the overall talent level of D3 has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since the Mount run has begun.  Just like the NFL, big time college down to the high school level, the players are bigger/stronger/faster than they were 20 years ago.   

The 1997 Mount team was by far the greatest and most dominant in their history, with a senior QB that threw 61 TDs against 2 INTs and a nasty defense, but they would get beat by the recent Mount teams simply because the size, strength and speed along the lines of scrimmage are so much different than they were in the late 90's.  The skill people are similar, but there is a huge difference in the O and D lines.

Couldn't agree with this more.

D3 football has come a long ways. One factor is just the increased popularity of football. The guys who played 30 years ago were kids in the 60's and 70's, a time when baseball still dominated the nations attention. The participation levels of HS football are through the roof right now with the burgeoning popularity of the game.

Also, Title IX and scholarship reductions at FBS schools has a major trickle down affect. Every single team is offering dozens fewer scholarship now. Guys who used to get offers to Alabama are now playing at Kent State...and on down the line. Your typical D3 player is just a lot better.

And the caliber of HS football has also increased. Plenty of teams still run option offenses of various stripes. But in general, the complexity has increased and the passing game is integral to many HS programs. This means kids at every position come in better equipped at passing, running routes, pass pro, pass rush and defending the pass. The makes the learning curve a lot quicker for players.

I actually think coaching complex pass offenses is easier than coaching the old school Wing-t/triple option stuff.  (of course you need a good qb to run the current systems)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 03, 2012, 05:40:22 PM
Public message to Pat Coleman

Please tell me the name of the rotten bastard who has been smiting me every day for the past few months.  This person needs a good old fashion shaming!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 03, 2012, 06:11:05 PM
"Best?" Sure, there are only a few random deniers out there.

My response/post was more about depth.  I was responding to an unsupported claim that the East's "strength" was that it had  "probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region."

The scale to me indicated that depth. Let's all stipulate that Mount is a special beast. The West's ability break that monopoly, by putting up multiple challengers against the Raiders and occasionally win is unmatched.  The NCAA's move to deregionalize the bracket has demonstrated it further as two West teams become staples for the semis. My point: Mount aside, it takes a deep pool to produce the number of varied national contenders that the West has shown in recent history.

With rare exceptions, West teams that reach the semis or the Stagg aren't just one-year wonders. (One example:  SJU, example, lost the Stagg on a final-minute FG to Mount in the 2000 before handing Mount its worst Stagg defeat in '03. In 2000, SJU had three one-score victories in the then-all-West regionals before demolishing Hardin-Simmons in the semis.  Like PLU earlier, SJU was the No. 7 West seed. )

So the idea that the West would have a handful of "Tier I" team but fewer "Tier II" teams seems wacky to me. And that's what I was responding to.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 07:02:19 PM
QuoteThe scale to me indicated that depth. Let's all stipulate that Mount is a special beast. The West's ability break that monopoly, by putting up multiple challengers against the Raiders and occasionally win is unmatched.  The NCAA's move to deregionalize the bracket has demonstrated it further as two West teams become staples for the semis.

I think the only West region teams who beat Mount Union are UW-Whitewater and St. John's, right?  PLU won without going through Mount Union because Rowan beat them.  Linfield won without going through Mount Union because Mary Hardin-Baylor beat them.

QuoteMy point: Mount aside, it takes a deep pool to produce the number of varied national contenders that the West has shown in recent history.

Yes. Totally agree.

QuoteI was responding to an unsupported claim that the East's "strength" was that it had  "probably has more Tier 2 teams than any other Region."

Like you, I don't think that's true.

QuoteSo the idea that the West would have a handful of "Tier I" team but fewer "Tier II" teams seems wacky to me. And that's what I was responding to.

Yep, I'm with you there, too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 07:03:37 PM
I honestly disagree slightly with HScoach's player strength assessment because he's missing two key issues that counterbalance the story.

First, the number of teams in D3 has escalated greatly, especially when looking at the New England conferences and similar circumstances across the nation.  Just like in the NBA, MLB and NHL, we've seen the pool become diluted despite population growth.  This is one reason the tournament was forced to expand from 8 teams to 16 teams to 28 teams to 32 teams over about a 20-year period.  It's also a reason we hear about how undeserving certain conferences are concerning the Pool A bids -- the top teams have a larger, deeper separation comparison against these lighter-weight teams.  You can say that there were less teams but less controversies in the 16-team field, but we still have legitimacy arguments in the Second Round today.  Thus, the improvement of player issue has not be universal by any means.

Second, back in the 1970s through 1990s, only one game person season (except for a very small stretch on ABC in the mid-'70s) was broadcast for D3 nationally -- the Stagg Bowl.  Scores and records were not centralized on a website, and the AP reporting system was suspect at best.  Players want to win, and they want to join teams that they believe are winners.  The exposure scenario that D3football.com and the Internet have provided has absolutely revolutionized the ability for exposure of who is the best of the best and who isn't.  Stated another way, the best players can much more easily identify the strongest teams to play at in the D3 level.  Put on top of that the ability to travel much more easily for recruiting purposes and matriculation purposes, and the talent can now centralize itself in the upper-tiered schools like never before.  This explains the much more defined tiering we're seeing, as the major talent is not distributing itself nearly as well as it did back in the 1970s and 1980s.  It's not to say that it's going to completely shut out new teams from rising to that level, but it suggests that the turnover will be much slower and frustrating to the casual fan because of the large chasm being the teams; upsets of major teams just aren't nearly as likely anymore (see the hype when Buffalo State beat Whitewater).

I understand that strength and conditioning improvements at the college and high school levels and population growth generally have helped build up the pool of players -- no doubt.  The speedy are speedier, the strong are stronger, and so forth.  Yet, Title IX/budgetary issues, growth of schools, ease of travel and exposure have done more to steepen the playing field in perhaps unexpected ways.  The only thing I could add to build on HScoach's argument is that there are areas of the country being recruited (and therefore untapped gold mines until recently) like Florida and Arizona (where D3 teams don't really exist and were sometimes not even heard of in recruiting circles).  The number of Florida, etc. players just isn't as large as would be needed to make that argument solid, though, across the Division.  Sure, for some teams, it matters (it takes about 7-8 strong specialist players to turn a good team into a strong playoff-caliber team in my estimation).  But it hasn't penetrated a grand majority of the Division yet in that way.

Watching Mount Union games every week might provide the false sense of assurance that D3 players are becoming bigger and better as a whole.  I'm not sold at all on this as I look at the rest of the country.  When I head to the Stagg Bowl each year, I see players who dwarf the players I normally see before and after games I announce -- since the two schools involved in Salem have been UWW and Mount Union.  Trust me, it's a skewed sample, and I'm just not sold on HScoach's argument.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Retired Old Rat on December 03, 2012, 07:26:28 PM
I agree with HSCoach.  I think the biggest difference is seen with the lineman.  I think that UMU really raised the bar, and others worked to catch up.  When St. John's played UMU in 2000 they looked huge relative to SJU.  Same thing in 2003.  I think size wise a lot of teams have moved into the UMU level.  Unfortunately, for the rest of us, UMU didn't stand still and had continued to raise the bar relative to skill levels.  MIAC teams have gotten a lot bigger.  WIAC used to be big and slow.  Now they are big and fast.  UWW lead that change, as we learned so painfully in 2005.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 03, 2012, 08:14:40 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on December 03, 2012, 05:40:22 PM
Public message to Pat Coleman

Please tell me the name of the rotten bastard who has been smiting me every day for the past few months.  This person needs a good old fashion shaming!

It was (not) me!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 03, 2012, 08:22:40 PM
Frank:  You obviously know the NE better than I because the only teams we see at Mount are eastern playoff teams, but I can definitely attest that in the OAC, as well as the handful of CCIW and WIAC teams we've often seen in the playoffs, the level of athletic ability has increased significantly in 20 years.   Now, there are still the Hirams and Wilmingtons that have always been physically weak, but they seem to be the outliers, not the norm.

I find it interesting that you think that some of the east teams haven't made significant progress.  That's completely counter to everything I see here in Ohio.  The HS kids here are a lot bigger/stronger than they used to be.  Back in the 90's when I started coaching, it was a complete aberration to have a HS kid that benched over 300 and squatted well.   Now there's typically a handful each year that do that and more.  There's a ton more weight & speed training that goes into the off seasons these days and a lot less multi-sport players.  Which I honestly think is a bad circumstance for the kids.  So many of them pick their sport when still in junior high or as freshman so that they can concentrate on the specific traits needed.  And unfortunately some of them end up burnt out of their body grows out of their favorite sport and now they feel left behind because the haven't played anything else in 3 years. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 09:27:30 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 03, 2012, 08:22:40 PM
Frank:  You obviously know the NE better than I because the only teams we see at Mount are eastern playoff teams, but I can definitely attest that in the OAC, as well as the handful of CCIW and WIAC teams we've often seen in the playoffs, the level of athletic ability has increased significantly in 20 years.   Now, there are still the Hirams and Wilmingtons that have always been physically weak, but they seem to be the outliers, not the norm.

I find it interesting that you think that some of the east teams haven't made significant progress.  That's completely counter to everything I see here in Ohio.  The HS kids here are a lot bigger/stronger than they used to be.  Back in the 90's when I started coaching, it was a complete aberration to have a HS kid that benched over 300 and squatted well.   Now there's typically a handful each year that do that and more.  There's a ton more weight & speed training that goes into the off seasons these days and a lot less multi-sport players.  Which I honestly think is a bad circumstance for the kids.  So many of them pick their sport when still in junior high or as freshman so that they can concentrate on the specific traits needed.  And unfortunately some of them end up burnt out of their body grows out of their favorite sport and now they feel left behind because the haven't played anything else in 3 years.

Remember the discussion that led us here -- Bombers, I think, pointed out that the Butterfield teams, when the clock rules allowed for more plays and clock stoppages, had half the margin of victory averages that Mount Union generally has (and I'd assume Whitewater also showed nearly the same level of strength if we look at their averages during their run).  Gordon stated astutely that something has changed.  If your assessment were completely correct (growth across the board), it doesn't explain why we're seeing THIS level of separation forming even within the Top 10, let alone the Top 25.  I didn't say the East shrunk as a whole in terms of skilled players.  Some schools have grown in that department while some haven't based especially on the growth of new programs -- and that's not isolated to the East.  However, the thing that's happened based on exposure and travel, especially, is that the rich get richer now in terms of the talent pool.  You've pretty much, at the college level, gotten to see 9 OAC opponents, 1 out-of-conference opponent and a bunch of playoff teams each season.  You're getting a very front-loaded sample in the playoffs.  Maybe the OAC teams are recruiting better talent in an attempt to dismount the Mount, but as a whole, there is a dilution of talent we are witnessing, especially as the New England schools and other fringe conference schools get a little better.

Best example I can provide is that Union (not Mount Union) was recruiting hard in Florida before most schools and before Garcon became a standout at the Mount.  In doing so, though, Union's success in the mid-2000s has drawn the attention of many East schools to do the same.  There are many duels for the same Florida players by Liberty League and other schools now because the talent pool only goes so deep, even in Florida.  The more schools competing for the players, the more diluted the pool overall.  And we know the most talented non-D1/D2 players will end up at Mount Union and St. Thomas and the such based on the exposure of the teams' success for enough years to show a commitment toward excellence on the field through balance and depth.

I don't doubt your exposure to high school players that have more strength (although, I can bench 275 when in condition and don't view myself as even close to a powerhouse and potential football player since strength alone isn't the key).  However, even FBS and FCS have grown and are accommodating more of these types of strong players.  When I started broadcasting in 1995, there were about 108 D-1A teams.  In 2012, there are 124.  We've seen some D3 programs rise to D-1AA level over time, too, while D3 itself has grown by leaps and bounds in football programs.  The growth of the sport has far outpaced the growth of the population of the player pool in the last 18 years alone -- and the most special of players are now more likely to end up at the schools with the best football reputations if that's what truly matters to them more than just bare academics.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:15:02 PM
Lots of D-III schools have had pipelines into Florida for some time. Actually, St. Thomas isn't one of them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:15:02 PM
Lots of D-III schools have had pipelines into Florida for some time. Actually, St. Thomas isn't one of them.

Teammate of Union SO WR Kyle Reynolds from American Heritage goes there.  I believe there are 4 Floridians on their roster.  It's a long way to Minnesota from Florida.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Perhaps we have different definitions of the term pipeline.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 03, 2012, 10:33:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:15:02 PM
Lots of D-III schools have had pipelines into Florida for some time. Actually, St. Thomas isn't one of them.

Teammate of Union SO WR Kyle Reynolds from American Heritage goes there.  I believe there are 4 Floridians on their roster.  It's a long way to Minnesota from Florida.
St. Olaf probably has a better Florida pipeline.  The overall point about St. Thomas getting D1/D2 guys is correct.  Caruso stated on the radio last week that 75% of his players had scholarship offers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:31:05 PM
Perhaps we have different definitions of the term pipeline.

Or perhaps you misread the sentence:

"And we know the most talented non-D1/D2 players will end up at Mount Union and St. Thomas and the such based on the exposure of the teams' success for enough years to show a commitment toward excellence on the field through balance and depth."

Note future tense.  Yet, even not stating St. Thomas has a "pipeline," having four players there already from Florida is not a mere coincidence, I would guess.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:48:58 PM
Why nitpick?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 10:54:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 10:48:58 PM
Why nitpick?

?kciptin yhW


That said, http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2012/11/05/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show (fast forward to 69:00 for a few minutes).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 03, 2012, 11:04:00 PM
Saying D3 has grown doesn't really touch on the broader issue. It's not just a D3 deal. College football across the board has gotten better, deeper and more competitive. And while D3 has definitely grown, I'd argue all 'small college' football has gotten better. So it's not like D3 is just growing by adding bad teams. There's been a trickle down in multiple areas. Strength and conditioning is light years ahead. It used to be the cutting edge coaches who cared about bench press and had off-season programs. No one worth their salt in the strength industry is talking about a kids 'bench press' any longer. The training and testing has gotten much better and much more sport specific. The rare HS kid/program in the 80's who was really serious about lifting simply wasn't doing the type of stuff that kids are today...things that actually show up on a field.

To name drop into the conversation. My father is friends with Mel Tjeersma. If you had to look him up, then you need to get out of the D3 bubble. Their football connection goes back a long ways. Mel knows football. He's coached champions (state and national) at multiple levels. And he knows small college football. To paraphrase a conversation they had. Since Mel's days coaching college ball in the 70's to his recent retirement in 2010 he's seen the shift in the landscape firsthand. His anecdotal take was that the quality of play has increased at every level. The kids playing D3/NAIA today were as good or better than the D2 kids when he started. Same with D2 compared with the old 1AA teams, etc. The reasons are all we've listed here. As a guy who's coached 'elite' teams and average ones for 35 years, he felt it went further than just the best teams. According to Mel, the talent increase was across the board.

Coach Johnson, who's been the HC at Bethel since '89 is confident about this as well. The talent and level of competition in the MIAC now, compared to when he started, is night and day. Some of our best, All-MIAC players would have a hard time cracking the starting lineup today. Not all of them, but plenty of them.

And I think the issue is that the pool is deepening as well. I simply disagree with the premise that as the population of the US has grown and the participation rates have grown, somehow we are now spread more thin when it comes to talent.

And most of the growth in D3 isn't from schools adding new programs, although some is. Isn't most of that growth is through shifting divisions or from NAIA to NCAA? And sure FBS has grown by a dozen or so schools. But the scholarship limits more than overcome that. Those 108 schools are given 20ish fewer scholarship now than they were. That's over 2100 kids who used to get DI/FBS scholarships who end up at a lower level. Those fringe DI players push down fringe IAA to D2 to D3. Sure, some schools have moved up. But most moving up to give us 124 schools were already playing at some scholarship level. So there aren't going from 0 scholarships to 85. Even conservatively, there are probably 1500 kids getting pushed down through the divisions into D3 that 30 years ago would never have ended up there. And I think the talent pool is better to begin with. The teams are better today. I'm convinced of it. The NFL today is better than it was in the 70's. So is College football, across the board.

IMO, the best D3 teams today are better than those of yesteryear. And the worst are better as well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2012, 11:08:31 PM
Quote from: hazzben on December 03, 2012, 11:04:00 PM
Saying D3 has grown doesn't really touch on the broader issue. It's not just a D3 deal. College football across the board has gotten better, deeper and more competitive. And while D3 has definitely grown, I'd argue all 'small college' football has gotten better. So it's not like D3 is just growing by adding bad teams. There's been a trickle down in multiple areas. Strength and conditioning is light years ahead. It used to be the cutting edge coaches who cared about bench press and had off-season programs. No one worth their salt in the strength industry is talking about a kids 'bench press' any longer. The training and testing has gotten much better and much more sport specific. The rare HS kid/program in the 80's who was really serious about lifting simply wasn't doing the type of stuff that kids are today...things that actually show up on a field.

To name drop into the conversation. My father is friends with Mel Tjeersma. If you had to look him up, then you need to get out of the D3 bubble. Their football connection goes back a long ways. Mel knows football. He's coached champions (state and national) at multiple levels. And he knows small college football. To paraphrase a conversation they had. Since Mel's days coaching college ball in the 70's to his recent retirement in 2010 he's seen the shift in the landscape firsthand. His anecdotal take was that the quality of play has increased at every level. The kids playing D3/NAIA today were as good or better than the D2 kids when he started. Same with D2 compared with the old 1AA teams, etc. The reasons are all we've listed here. As a guy who's coached 'elite' teams and average ones for 35 years, he felt it went further than just the best teams. According to Mel, the talent increase was across the board.

Great guy -- I write the D-II preview for USA Today's college football magazine every summer, so I've talked to him. Kinda thought he might take that program back over last fall with all that happened last offseason.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on December 03, 2012, 11:13:48 PM
Quote from: repete on December 03, 2012, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on December 03, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
Showing the list of champions since 1991 reinforces Lew's point.


Only if you're wearing East/South blinders. I extended back to LAX because that followed the final East title.

Then where are all of champions from the East (or South)? Apparently, it's just a crazy coincidence.

That a number of West have won Staggs speaks to the depth of the region. It's tougher to sustain Tier I when you've got that depth at the top.

In the East it seems there's always one team carrying the hopes of that region. I do have to laugh about references to "the Rowan era" in this discussion. How can you have an era without a title? Even so, Rowan absorbed one its worst Stagg defeats to the No. 7 West seed. And in all playoff games vs. the West, Rowan was outscored 149-42.

Since the last Ithaca championship Rowan is the last East region team to reach the Stagg Bowl, the year Lyco made it the MAC was still in the South Region.  I just wonder how well Rowan would have done if they were not limited to a 100 man roster.  I wonder how many more championships the WIAC would have if not limited in roster size.

I have to agree with the size of players, when I graduated HS in 1980 our HS had one 280 lump of lard lineman who almost never played except on the goal line.  The average weight of my old HS Oline in 80 was probably around 155 or 160 and we were conference champions that year.  There are now qb's and wide receivers bigger than the linemen going to D-III schools back then.

Today on ESPN on the Mike and Mike show they were talking about how kids are now getting exposed to pro style and spread offenses by 7th and 8th grade or even younger and it shows all the way up to the NFL.  20-25 years ago it was very rare when a rookie qb was a starter for an NFL team, hell Dan Marino did not become a starter until halfway through his rookie season and he and Elway were exceptions back then.  This season you have 5 rookies starting for NFL teams that are having pretty good seasons, 3 of those are having great seasons.

The main reason I brought up Rowan a few pages back is KC Keeler whether you like him or not was a great recruiter and coach.  He got the kids like Caruso is getting, the D-I and D-II kids that are offered scholarships but he could convince to come to Rowan and the transfers from the scholarship programs.  No East team has been able to do that like KC could, I do think SJF and Hobart have coaches who are getting there and could possibly get to that point but right now nobody is there.  What LK has done is unprecedented on any level of college football.  Coaches who were at the top of the polls in D-I year after year like Bear Bryant, Joe Paterno, Jimmy Johnson at Miami, Ara Parsegian (sp) etc never did what LK has done.  He is just a very special coach and UMU is fortunate to have him.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2012, 11:39:05 PM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

The only thing I can go on there is that if Buffalo St. beat UWW, and UWW beat UWP, and we know how Buffalo St. finished, then UWP might have lost to Widener in the same position as Bridgewater State sat in.  It's too tough to say if Widener would have won or lost vs. Wheaton, but the North undercard didn't do too well getting to the Quarterfinals.

By the way, there are currently 640 NCAA football programs, with 5 having added football this season.  From 2000-2010, 61 programs were added across divisions, while 27 teams were eliminated.  This does not include NAIA and NJCAA players and schools.  It appears  average roster sizes for the 640 schools have increased over time, as the NCAA reports that 67,887 athletes play football in NCAA institutions.  Just something to chew on based on the earlier conversation.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 04, 2012, 12:20:05 AM
Ugh, I wouldn't hang too much East/West redemption on that Buff State result. A nice win, for sure, but UWW obviously wasn't the same team it's been. It was a very early regular-season game against a team clearly in transition.  After their run, they ought to be allowed a down year.  Anyone know if there's a rematch next season?

I might have offered up Concordia-Moorhead for that Bridgewater spot, a place they would have won had they not scr---ed the pooch at Bethel.

As for that who-beat-who-beat-who goes, I'm sure AO will  share the link to that matchup generator and it would come up some doozies. I don't put too much stock in that -- or the comparative score game -- for anything but recreation. I believe someone pointed out that UST's margin vs. Hobart was bigger than every MIAC game except against the 1-9 team whose coach, a noted Bigfoot hunter, vanished during the season. We all know that Hobart is better than that (and that comparative scores are even more useless when you include playoffs and smaller rosters vs. regular season games).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2012, 12:49:17 AM
UWW/Buff State is a home-and-home, yes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 04, 2012, 06:55:41 AM
This has gone back and forth so many times. I am generally on the side of the "out of regioners" posting here. I agree that you can only use the Buff State- UWW result so much to try to defend this, especially given the way UWW ended up. The Bengals played lights out on defense and I think they played the best game possible.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

One thing that I think separates Mount from Whitewater when comparing scores is the offensive style Mount typically plays.  This is probably a crappy analogy, but it's the best I can come up with on a moments notice while still on my 2nd cup of coffee. 

Whitewater reminds me of Alabama.   Great, physicall defense and a power running game.  More likely to play field position with a great punter and let their defense get the ball back in good field position.  A typical blowout looks like 31-3.

Mount reminds me of the Steve Spurrier/Urban Meyer coached teams.  The foot doesn't come off the game until they hit 50+ and they try to run a ton of plays to get more opportunities.  Every chance they get to score and they're taking it.  A typical blowout is in 56-14 range. 

Both teams won in dominating fashion.  Just using different game plans and styles.  Simply comparing scores isn't a true measure.   For instance against Widener, Mount ran their quasi-no huddle/hurry up well thru the 3rd quarter and until the game was WAY out of reach.   As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 04, 2012, 08:23:18 AM
Somewhere there is a Salve fan bitterly reviewing the Hobart-UST box scores saying to himself, "We could have beat UST if only we'd been given the playoff spot we deserved."
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: emma17 on December 04, 2012, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

One thing that I think separates Mount from Whitewater when comparing scores is the offensive style Mount typically plays.  This is probably a crappy analogy, but it's the best I can come up with on a moments notice while still on my 2nd cup of coffee. 

Whitewater reminds me of Alabama.   Great, physicall defense and a power running game.  More likely to play field position with a great punter and let their defense get the ball back in good field position.  A typical blowout looks like 31-3.

Mount reminds me of the Steve Spurrier/Urban Meyer coached teams.  The foot doesn't come off the game until they hit 50+ and they try to run a ton of plays to get more opportunities.  Every chance they get to score and they're taking it.  A typical blowout is in 56-14 range. 

Both teams won in dominating fashion.  Just using different game plans and styles.  Simply comparing scores isn't a true measure.   For instance against Widener, Mount ran their quasi-no huddle/hurry up well thru the 3rd quarter and until the game was WAY out of reach.   As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10.

You must have strong coffee, your analogy is perfect.  I wacthed the recording of the SEC championship last night and thought excactly the same thing about UWW's style compared to Alabama.  That said, yes a 30-3 score can be in dominating fashion, but it's simply not the same as a 55 point blowout in the 3rd round.  I completely believe the bracketing has created serious mis-matches in talent.

For those that continue to throw the UWW v Buffalo State result around as definitive proof of something, really?  Come on now. 
The same is true for those that want to pretend a Wheaton, Platteville, Conc-Moorhead would not have been far superior to a Bridgewater State in terms of accomplishing the goal of making the playoffs more competitive-really?  Come on now. 
   
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 04, 2012, 09:44:44 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 04, 2012, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

One thing that I think separates Mount from Whitewater when comparing scores is the offensive style Mount typically plays.  This is probably a crappy analogy, but it's the best I can come up with on a moments notice while still on my 2nd cup of coffee. 

Whitewater reminds me of Alabama.   Great, physicall defense and a power running game.  More likely to play field position with a great punter and let their defense get the ball back in good field position.  A typical blowout looks like 31-3.

Mount reminds me of the Steve Spurrier/Urban Meyer coached teams.  The foot doesn't come off the game until they hit 50+ and they try to run a ton of plays to get more opportunities.  Every chance they get to score and they're taking it.  A typical blowout is in 56-14 range. 

Both teams won in dominating fashion.  Just using different game plans and styles.  Simply comparing scores isn't a true measure.   For instance against Widener, Mount ran their quasi-no huddle/hurry up well thru the 3rd quarter and until the game was WAY out of reach.   As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10.

You must have strong coffee, your analogy is perfect.  I wacthed the recording of the SEC championship last night and thought excactly the same thing about UWW's style compared to Alabama.  That said, yes a 30-3 score can be in dominating fashion, but it's simply not the same as a 55 point blowout in the 3rd round.  I completely believe the bracketing has created serious mis-matches in talent.

For those that continue to throw the UWW v Buffalo State result around as definitive proof of something, really?  Come on now. 
The same is true for those that want to pretend a Wheaton, Platteville, Conc-Moorhead would not have been far superior to a Bridgewater State in terms of accomplishing the goal of making the playoffs more competitive-really?  Come on now. 
   

I think the point that some people are trying to make (I think), is that the #20 or #30 east team is better than the #20 or #30 West team.  Or maybe even the east #10 is better than the other regions #10.  I don't know, but I have some free time and will list an unofficial top teams (Tier 2) of the east (anyone not on this list would be tier 3 or 4).  If we consider MUC and St. Thomas Tier 1, here are the tier 2 teams of the east:

Hobart
Widener
Salisbury
Cortland
Rowan
Lycoming
Del Val
Alfred
SJF
Kean
Albright
Union
Springfield
RPI
Buff State
Framingham
Salve
Ithaca
Utica
Endicott
Bridgewate State
Lebenon Valley
Monclair
Brockport
Mt. Ida
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2012, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

One thing that I think separates Mount from Whitewater when comparing scores is the offensive style Mount typically plays.  This is probably a crappy analogy, but it's the best I can come up with on a moments notice while still on my 2nd cup of coffee. 

Whitewater reminds me of Alabama.   Great, physicall defense and a power running game.  More likely to play field position with a great punter and let their defense get the ball back in good field position.  A typical blowout looks like 31-3.

Mount reminds me of the Steve Spurrier/Urban Meyer coached teams.  The foot doesn't come off the game until they hit 50+ and they try to run a ton of plays to get more opportunities.  Every chance they get to score and they're taking it.  A typical blowout is in 56-14 range. 

Both teams won in dominating fashion.  Just using different game plans and styles.  Simply comparing scores isn't a true measure.   For instance against Widener, Mount ran their quasi-no huddle/hurry up well thru the 3rd quarter and until the game was WAY out of reach.   As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10.

Just wanted to second the compliment of your interesting point about how a 31-3 win can be equally dominating/demoralizing as a 56-14 win, although the margin is vastly different, because of a difference in styles.  Well said.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on December 04, 2012, 11:29:18 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on December 04, 2012, 09:44:44 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 04, 2012, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

One thing that I think separates Mount from Whitewater when comparing scores is the offensive style Mount typically plays.  This is probably a crappy analogy, but it's the best I can come up with on a moments notice while still on my 2nd cup of coffee. 

Whitewater reminds me of Alabama.   Great, physicall defense and a power running game.  More likely to play field position with a great punter and let their defense get the ball back in good field position.  A typical blowout looks like 31-3.

Mount reminds me of the Steve Spurrier/Urban Meyer coached teams.  The foot doesn't come off the game until they hit 50+ and they try to run a ton of plays to get more opportunities.  Every chance they get to score and they're taking it.  A typical blowout is in 56-14 range. 

Both teams won in dominating fashion.  Just using different game plans and styles.  Simply comparing scores isn't a true measure.   For instance against Widener, Mount ran their quasi-no huddle/hurry up well thru the 3rd quarter and until the game was WAY out of reach.   As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10.

You must have strong coffee, your analogy is perfect.  I wacthed the recording of the SEC championship last night and thought excactly the same thing about UWW's style compared to Alabama.  That said, yes a 30-3 score can be in dominating fashion, but it's simply not the same as a 55 point blowout in the 3rd round.  I completely believe the bracketing has created serious mis-matches in talent.

For those that continue to throw the UWW v Buffalo State result around as definitive proof of something, really?  Come on now. 
The same is true for those that want to pretend a Wheaton, Platteville, Conc-Moorhead would not have been far superior to a Bridgewater State in terms of accomplishing the goal of making the playoffs more competitive-really?  Come on now. 
   

I think the point that some people are trying to make (I think), is that the #20 or #30 east team is better than the #20 or #30 West team.  Or maybe even the east #10 is better than the other regions #10.  I don't know, but I have some free time and will list an unofficial top teams (Tier 2) of the east (anyone not on this list would be tier 3 or 4).  If we consider MUC and St. Thomas Tier 1, here are the tier 2 teams of the east:

Hobart
Widener
Salisbury
Cortland
Rowan
Lycoming
Del Val
Alfred
SJF
Kean
Albright
Union
Springfield
RPI
Buff State
Framingham
Salve
Ithaca
Utica
Endicott
Bridgewate State
Lebenon Valley
Monclair
Brockport
Mt. Ida

Maybe I'm thinking of Tier 2 a little differently, but I'd cut that list in half.  Thinking of tier 2 as teams that can win a game in the playoffs on the road (a playoff game can be against a good, but not great team). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 11:51:58 AM
I think it was Gordon Mann that originally coined the D3 tiers, and I think it's pretty accurate and pretty consistent from year to year.  There is some movement between tiers on a year-by-year basis as individually great players/classes come and go, but for the most part it takes multiple years for a team to switch tiers.  I wish I could remember his definitions as I'm too lazy to search for it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hazzben on December 04, 2012, 12:08:48 PM
@ Pat: Mel is a great guy. For all his success he remains very approachable and down to earth. Every school he's been at has nothing but great things to say about him as a coach and person.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on December 04, 2012, 12:17:51 PM
Maybe some definitions would help. I haven't looked at all the teams on that East list, but I pulled up Utica. Two winning seasons (6-4) in 12 years?

Did I miss the blue sarcasm font?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on December 04, 2012, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on December 04, 2012, 11:29:18 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on December 04, 2012, 09:44:44 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 04, 2012, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: emma17 on December 03, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
This has been a very interesting thread to read and I appreciate the detail you have all provided.  I confess to not having intimate knowledge of all teams and especially those from out East. 
Frank, you made a comment earlier that you assume UWW has had similar score disparities in their playoff run.  Yes, there have been some blowouts along the way,  but it was a rare occurrence UWW would win by such a significant margin in round 2 and round 3 as Mt has.  Mt's great, but it's a disservice to their team and fans as well-and it certainly doesn't look good for D3.   

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of East teams being out manned as it is the selection process of Pool C and the pairings.  If Wheaton or UW Platteville replaced Bridgewater State, isn't it more than likely there wouldn't be a 55 point victory for Mt in round 3?     

One thing that I think separates Mount from Whitewater when comparing scores is the offensive style Mount typically plays.  This is probably a crappy analogy, but it's the best I can come up with on a moments notice while still on my 2nd cup of coffee. 

Whitewater reminds me of Alabama.   Great, physicall defense and a power running game.  More likely to play field position with a great punter and let their defense get the ball back in good field position.  A typical blowout looks like 31-3.

Mount reminds me of the Steve Spurrier/Urban Meyer coached teams.  The foot doesn't come off the game until they hit 50+ and they try to run a ton of plays to get more opportunities.  Every chance they get to score and they're taking it.  A typical blowout is in 56-14 range. 

Both teams won in dominating fashion.  Just using different game plans and styles.  Simply comparing scores isn't a true measure.   For instance against Widener, Mount ran their quasi-no huddle/hurry up well thru the 3rd quarter and until the game was WAY out of reach.   As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10.

You must have strong coffee, your analogy is perfect.  I wacthed the recording of the SEC championship last night and thought excactly the same thing about UWW's style compared to Alabama.  That said, yes a 30-3 score can be in dominating fashion, but it's simply not the same as a 55 point blowout in the 3rd round.  I completely believe the bracketing has created serious mis-matches in talent.

For those that continue to throw the UWW v Buffalo State result around as definitive proof of something, really?  Come on now. 
The same is true for those that want to pretend a Wheaton, Platteville, Conc-Moorhead would not have been far superior to a Bridgewater State in terms of accomplishing the goal of making the playoffs more competitive-really?  Come on now. 
   

I think the point that some people are trying to make (I think), is that the #20 or #30 east team is better than the #20 or #30 West team.  Or maybe even the east #10 is better than the other regions #10.  I don't know, but I have some free time and will list an unofficial top teams (Tier 2) of the east (anyone not on this list would be tier 3 or 4).  If we consider MUC and St. Thomas Tier 1, here are the tier 2 teams of the east:

Hobart
Widener
Salisbury
Cortland
Rowan
Lycoming
Del Val
Alfred
SJF
Kean
Albright
Union
Springfield
RPI
Buff State
Framingham
Salve
Ithaca
Utica
Endicott
Bridgewate State
Lebenon Valley
Monclair
Brockport
Mt. Ida

Maybe I'm thinking of Tier 2 a little differently, but I'd cut that list in half.  Thinking of tier 2 as teams that can win a game in the playoffs on the road (a playoff game can be against a good, but not great team).

More than half:
Hobart
Widener
Salisbury
Cortland
Rowan
Del Val
SJF
And possibly:
Kean
Alfred
Union
Springfield
Montclair
Lyco
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 04, 2012, 12:46:36 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2012, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: HScoach on December 04, 2012, 07:13:22 AM
As a result, they had 97 offensive plays.  Change offensive game plan to something more ball control oriented with 60 offensive plays and score could have been 35-10.

Just wanted to second the compliment of your interesting point about how a 31-3 win can be equally dominating/demoralizing as a 56-14 win, although the margin is vastly different, because of a difference in styles.  Well said.

FYI: Whitewater averaged 72 plays per game this season. Mount is at 73.4. IC, for comparison's sake, averaged 65.

Mount doesn't need 90+ plays to score in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Remember, Mount isn't scoring most of these points in the 4th quarter. They scored 51 points in three quarters against ONU on 54 plays, and 59 in three against Wilmington on 65 plays. They scored 52 against Capital on 33 plays in one half. (Yes, there were defensive/special teams scores, but still) Frankly, with the Purple Raiders having 97 plays, Widener might be lucky Mount only put up 72.

Let's be honest: This team is playing on a level practically unseen, even by their standards. They are currently at +624 for points on the season. The best ever by a Mount team is 674. I'm not saying they'll get there, but they are in rare air. They scored 356 straight points at one juncture this season. (Widener scored 212 straight, but one, that's not even close to 356, and two, there were no first-year programs to pound on) They're simply obliterating everyone in a way that I don't think anyone else CAN.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 04, 2012, 01:01:23 PM
I also think that Tier list is WAY too generous. Here are my tiers, with some (not an exhaustive list) examples of the kinds of teams that make them up

I = Mount, with Whitewater there until this season

II = Teams where, if Mount/UW-W didn't exist, we'd see them having a number of these recent titles. Such as: MHB, St. Thomas, Linfield, Wesley, etc.

III = Teams that can win a couple of playoff games but then usually lose in major (Monkeystomp) fashion to a Tier II or I team Such as: Hobart/Widener this year, Cortland in 2008, Ithaca in 2001. They're not in the national title discussion even without Mount, but they're a really good team.

IV = Teams that will qualify for the playoffs, but are a first round tossup against teams that aren't really elite either. Cortland this year, Ithaca in 2005, Wick in 2007.

V = Teams that will battle for playoff spots, and a couple of plays may swing the season. Union, Springfield, Fisher, maybe Alfred this season. Usually, these teams miss the playoffs

VI = Decent teams, but none you would think about as a legit playoff contender thanks to certain flaws. Buff State, Utica, RPI might all be in here.

VII = Bad teams found littering the bottom of conferences. Wick, St. Lawrence, etc.

VIII = The really bad teams. Misericordia, the bottom half of the ECFC etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 04, 2012, 01:28:14 PM
Bombers:

Your definitions for the top three are pretty close to the ones I offered a couple seasons ago.  I didn't go beyond Tier 3.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/tag/playoffs/page/3/

The way you determine if a team is Tier 2 or 3 is, "Could this team beat someone in Tier 1?"  If the answer is yes, then they are Tier 2.  If the answer is no, then they are Tier 3.

The biggest problem with this theory is Buffalo State's result against UW-Whitewater.  Anyone you consider equal to or better than Buffalo state would be Tier 2.  For now, let's set aside the Buffalo State result as an outlier (Nerd alert!).  Let's assume that Mount Union sits alone atop Tier 1.

So who could beat Mount Union?  This doesn't mean they would be favored on a neutral field or even at home.  It means, "If they play a tremendous game and Mount Union plays poorly, an upset is possible."

I think it's a really short list.

West: St. Thomas, UW-Oshkosh, Linfield
South: Mary Hardin-Baylor
East: None. 

You could argue that Wesley is also on Tier 2.  For now I'd leave them off since they've had several cracks at Mount Union and UW-Whitewater when they were Tier 1.  Beating Mary hardin-Baylor multiple times doesn't make Wesley Tier 2.  Only beating Mount would.  If Mary Hardin-Baylor beats Mount Union, then put Wesley on Tier 2.

Oshkosh hasn't beaten Mount Union in recent memory but they represent a conference who has multiple times.  Maybe not it's fair to ascribe UW-Whitewater's excellence to Oshkosh, but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Linfield hasn't played Mount Union but they were competitive with elite UW-Whitewater when they played them twice (once with Brett Elliott at QB, once without).  That combined with the extremely close game against Oshkosh puts them in Tier 2 for me. 

Mary Hardin-Baylor probably sticks in Tier 2, even with a loss unless they get obliterated this weekend.  If St. Thomas plays Mount Union and loses by a lot, they would drop off Tier 2 for the same reason Wesley did.

All the east region teams are Tier 3 or lower if you use Bombers classification.  They are good teams and their accomplishments should not be diminished. But, unless they play other teams at Tier 3, they will be eliminated in the first two weeks of the playoffs. They might beat someone on Tier 2 if they play a tremendous game, but they are unlikely to do that twice in the same postseason. And they definitely don't beat Mount Union.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on December 04, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
gordon, if mount is the focal point, then wesley is certainly tier 2.  they played mount tough both times they played them.  if umhb is tier 2 than wesley is also.  just my opinion.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 04, 2012, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on December 04, 2012, 01:28:14 PM
Bombers:

Your definitions for the top three are pretty close to the ones I offered a couple seasons ago.  I didn't go beyond Tier 3.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/tag/playoffs/page/3/

The way you determine if a team is Tier 2 or 3 is, "Could this team beat someone in Tier 1?"  If the answer is yes, then they are Tier 2.  If the answer is no, then they are Tier 3.

The biggest problem with this theory is Buffalo State's result against UW-Whitewater.  Anyone you consider equal to or better than Buffalo state would be Tier 2.

Mine isn't about if you could beat a team ahead of you in a one-game situation.

It's more like: These teams would be in the discussion to win the Stagg bowl if the teams in the tiers ahead of them didn't exist. This removes one game outliers like Buff State/Whitewater or even IC/Salisbury and focuses more on a team's overall strength.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 04, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 04, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
gordon, if mount is the focal point, then wesley is certainly tier 2.  they played mount tough both times they played them.  if umhb is tier 2 than wesley is also.  just my opinion.
Maybe looking over a 5 year period but based upon this year, with Mary Hardin being an underdog at Mount after having beat Wesley twice, you'd have to conclude those 3 teams are on different tiers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on December 04, 2012, 02:24:38 PM
Wesley Dad, you may be right.  You've seen those games and Wesley more closely than I have.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 04, 2012, 02:30:14 PM
Quote from: AO on December 04, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 04, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
gordon, if mount is the focal point, then wesley is certainly tier 2.  they played mount tough both times they played them.  if umhb is tier 2 than wesley is also.  just my opinion.
Maybe looking over a 5 year period but based upon this year, with Mary Hardin being an underdog at Mount after having beat Wesley twice, you'd have to conclude those 3 teams are on different tiers.

Wasn't MHB up by 5 half way through the 4th?  I wouldn't necessarily put them in different tiers.  Let's not get too cocky over 2 hard fought wins.

Not to mention a whopping 7 point win earlier in the year.  I'd put these 2 teams neck and neck.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AO on December 04, 2012, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 04, 2012, 02:30:14 PM
Quote from: AO on December 04, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 04, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
gordon, if mount is the focal point, then wesley is certainly tier 2.  they played mount tough both times they played them.  if umhb is tier 2 than wesley is also.  just my opinion.
Maybe looking over a 5 year period but based upon this year, with Mary Hardin being an underdog at Mount after having beat Wesley twice, you'd have to conclude those 3 teams are on different tiers.

Wasn't MHB up by 5 half way through the 4th?  I wouldn't necessarily put them in different tiers.  Let's not get too cocky over 2 hard fought wins.

Not to mention a whopping 7 point win earlier in the year.  I'd put these 2 teams neck and neck.
I'm a fan of making more tiers.  The great thing about the D3 playoff is that you eventually get your shot to play the best.  Wesley had their shot.  Maybe if I were to guess next year what tier they would be on for the 2013 season, I'd put them back up there with Mary Hardin, but I'd say that this year the Cru has earned a little distinction.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 04, 2012, 05:41:20 PM
All of you have forgotten the unsung powerhouse of the East, Salve, who was unjustly robbed of a Top 25 poll spot and playoff berth. Obviously a tier I team, tier II for those of you too obtuse to remove the SoS and the losses from your mental calculus. It's science. Phone it in and taste it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 04, 2012, 05:47:05 PM
Quote from: Rt Rev J.H. Hobart on December 04, 2012, 05:41:20 PM
All of you have forgotten the unsung powerhouse of the East, Salve, who was unjustly robbed of a Top 25 poll spot and playoff berth. Obviously a tier I team, tier II for those of you too obtuse to remove the SoS and the losses from your mental calculus. It's science. Phone it in and taste it.

No, now you're being acute.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: mattvsmith on December 04, 2012, 05:54:59 PM
I failed to mention they were possessed of blazing speed, pg04. Please forgive my oversight.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2012, 06:06:18 PM
Phone it in AND taste it! Well played.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on December 04, 2012, 07:32:37 PM
Quote from: AO on December 04, 2012, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 04, 2012, 02:30:14 PM
Quote from: AO on December 04, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 04, 2012, 01:41:34 PM
gordon, if mount is the focal point, then wesley is certainly tier 2.  they played mount tough both times they played them.  if umhb is tier 2 than wesley is also.  just my opinion.
Maybe looking over a 5 year period but based upon this year, with Mary Hardin being an underdog at Mount after having beat Wesley twice, you'd have to conclude those 3 teams are on different tiers.

Wasn't MHB up by 5 half way through the 4th?  I wouldn't necessarily put them in different tiers.  Let's not get too cocky over 2 hard fought wins.

Not to mention a whopping 7 point win earlier in the year.  I'd put these 2 teams neck and neck.
I'm a fan of making more tiers.  The great thing about the D3 playoff is that you eventually get your shot to play the best.  Wesley had their shot.  Maybe if I were to guess next year what tier they would be on for the 2013 season, I'd put them back up there with Mary Hardin, but I'd say that this year the Cru has earned a little distinction.

Personally dlip has 200 tiers for 238 teams. If you ask dlip if a team defeats another by even one point his response is simply, "****in tier'um." Just sayin...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2012, 07:45:14 PM
But Dlip, we hardly know'um.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: skunks_sidekick on December 04, 2012, 10:37:06 PM
SS's tiers........

1-10 and to infinity......MOUNT.

The rest....pfffft. 

Ok.....ok...just kidding of course.  I think the subject has been covered with great aplomb and distinction from all that have contributed.

Especially Frank.....who through thick and thin always remains true to his inner Frank.   ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 08, 2012, 01:09:59 PM
Quote from: AO on December 03, 2012, 12:24:40 PM
I don't see Hobart or Widener being able to physically match up with UW-Platteville, much less anybody in the top 10 in the West.

How do you think Buffalo State would match up with Whitewater? Oh wait, we already know that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 08, 2012, 01:46:10 PM
To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter?  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 08, 2012, 05:32:59 PM
I am with Dan, and I have felt that way for several years. In the grand whole of caring it has waned considerably.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 08, 2012, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 08, 2012, 01:46:10 PM
To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter?  ;D

Dan,

I hope all is well with you. Your post makes sense, but MU can only play who is in the OAC plus one open game. Who really wants to get smoked by MU except Fisher. It reminds me of the time whem Montcair only played 8 games because nobody wanted to play them. I'm pulling for St. Thomas. Recruiting is the answer, IMHO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 09, 2012, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on December 08, 2012, 07:23:18 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 08, 2012, 01:46:10 PM
To the point that D3 football athletes are better than ever -

I can't disagree with that point. However that is endemic of collegiate sports in general. U.S. Lacrosse and Soccer athletes are much stronger and faster than they were a few decades ago. We are more aware of quality training techniques now than we were 20 and 50 years ago. Heck, I'm in considerably better shape at age 44 than my parents and grandparents were at the same age. I know what weight training techniques make the most gains in the shortest amount of time.

But while the athleticism of the D3 football players is likely at an all-time high, I have serious doubts that the talent pool is nearly as deep as it once was. Unless we believe there are more kids interested in playing sports than ever before, I have to believe the growth in soccer's popularity has taken a large chunk of the pool of athletes once destined for football.

And since the growth in soccer seems to be at a higher arc on the east coast than it is in middle America, this could explain the watered down nature of D3 football for traditionally strong east teams such as Ithaca and Union.

In 1988 I watched Cortland and Ithaca split two games against each other, and I was convinced those were the two best teams in the entire country. Since IC won the NCAA championship and Cortland was the only team to beat them (and play them very close in a loss), it looked very much like Cortland was the #2 team in the nation. Neither team could stack up against the Mount Union team I watched from the sidelines in 2008. I don't know how all of the talent level in D3 suddenly migrated toward a few schools, but it certainly did. And I find it incredibly dull.

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.

I'm not sure that watching total domination is that much fun. And I'll put my money where my mouth is on that statement. I pretty much Live for Cortland lacrosse these days, and I drive to Cortland to watch 6-7 games per season. But I almost never bother to watch them play someone like SUNY Oneonta, because why waste time and money to watch them win 22-4? Seriously, what is it like buying season tickets to Mount Union football? Is there any drama at all? Or is the drama in waiting to see if the 3rd string running back will hit 200 yards rushing by the end of the 4th quarter?  ;D

Dan,

I hope all is well with you. Your post makes sense, but MU can only play who is in the OAC plus one open game. Who really wants to get smoked by MU except Fisher. It reminds me of the time whem Montcair only played 8 games because nobody wanted to play them. I'm pulling for St. Thomas. Recruiting is the answer, IMHO.


Whitewater scheduled them before they became the Whitewater we all know.  Bethel just signed a two year contract to play against them.  UW-Oshkosh who just made it to the semi-finals this year played against Mount Union last year.  Franklin who made the playoffs this year was their OOC opponent.  So apparently a lot of good teams want to play Mount Union. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 09, 2012, 04:25:33 PM
It's Bethany that will be playing Mount Union, not Bethel.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Desertraider on December 09, 2012, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: DanPadavona on December 08, 2012, 01:46:10 PM

If you are a Mount Union fan, do you honestly enjoy watching your in-conference games? What was the last exciting game you paid to see? Is beating a team 56-7 something you will remember forever? Yeah, Cortland football can't compare to Mount Union football. But I'd buy season tickets to watch Cortland in a heartbeat, and there were several very close games this season (including the playoffs) which made it all worthwhile.


I have to be painfully honest here. The answers are as follows.
1. Yes - I love to see Mount play every conference game. Because you get to see what they have now, and what they will have next year. It's like getting a Varsity, JV and Freshman game all for one ticket.
2. Mount vs. Ohio Northern this year. I could not get to the others so it was the last one I saw.
3. Yes. I will remember the 54-0 over ONU this year for as long as I have remembered all the others including the 41-14 over Cortland State. I was there it was a great game - it really was a great game - and no disrespect to CSU is intended by that reference.

I never understood the "winning gets boring" mentality. The truth is that it doesn't get boring - or at least it hasn't yet. I did my undergrad at Hiram - who lost everygame and I think once lost to a happy meal in overtime. But I have been following Mount for 20+ years and still go to every game I can get to. Sorry to jump into your board - I will head on out now.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 09, 2012, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: desertraider on December 09, 2012, 05:35:08 PM

I never understood the "winning gets boring" mentality.

I think the mentality isn't that winning itself is boring, but that winning when it's essentially a pre-determined blowout nearly every week is, well, a different kind of experience. I mean, I've seen Ithaca win games 66-0, and I've seen them come back in a similar fashion to the way Mount did this week. And while it's always fun to watch a blowout now and again, there's something enjoyable about watching an actual game as opposed to a ritual killing. One where there are momentum swings, and that play, right there, might be a game-changer, a season-changer, not just the first of eight touchdowns on the day, or the 19th of the 48 straight you scored at one point. You probably experienced one or two momentum swings all season. Honestly, while you may think this is sour grapes, and while part of me would love the Bombers to be as good as Mount, I think you're the one missing out.

I'm sure you won't care when you're counting trophy number, 16 in a week, but I think about the two game-winning touchdowns IC scored in the waning seconds against Union and Salisbury, and the goal-line stand against Cortland, and I'd take a season like that over one that features 85% blowouts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ereraider on December 09, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
I would rather win a national championship
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: frank uible on December 09, 2012, 10:40:02 PM
Different strokes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 10, 2012, 03:13:22 PM
Quote from: Ereraider on December 09, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
I would rather win a national championship

Me too, sometimes. Which is why I'm glad I've seen my team win two.

I just think there's a whole side to the experience of fandom that you miss when your team only plays one or two competitive games a year. But as Frank says, different strokes
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 10, 2012, 04:09:51 PM
As someone who was watching Mount back when they stunk and Baldwin Wallace was the king, I can say with 100% honesty the last 18 years are  INFINITELY better.   Only someone who hasn't experienced greatness on a daily basis wishes for occasional spurts mixed amongst average.

Now I'll give you that the first title was the most fun simply because it was assumed to be an aberration, but they've all been special.   Each in they're own way.   And none of them, even the 97 team which was the greatest of the great, won a title without at least one game that they could/should have lost.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 10, 2012, 04:42:45 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 10, 2012, 04:09:51 PM
Only someone who hasn't experienced greatness on a daily basis wishes for occasional spurts mixed amongst average.


Obviously, we want our teams to win. No one is saying you strive for being average over excellent. What I'm saying is that there are different ways to enjoy games, and enjoy seasons, than watching 56-7 type games roll off an assembly line for 15 weeks. While a lot of Mount fans have gotten to experience that feeling of being untouchable for 60 minutes (repeatedly), there are other things that they haven't probably experienced that are enjoyable as well.

For example, I'm a Michigan State fan. When they beat Wisconsin with the Hail Mary in 2011, or Notre Dame with the fake FG in 2010, those were just awesome, awesome moments. You don't get those moments in a 60-point blowout, and they're fun to experience. I understand of course, that, as an Ithaca fan, I've been able to experience the top of the mountain as well, so maybe I'm still in a minority compared to other East region fans.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on December 10, 2012, 05:07:22 PM
I definitely see both sides of this discussion. However, I really don't know what it's like to support a championship team. No team that I root for in any sport has ever won a National/Professional championship.  :'(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on December 10, 2012, 05:38:16 PM
^   the Cleveland Browns offset the Mount success and leaves me overall with a very average football fan experience.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on December 10, 2012, 06:06:42 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 10, 2012, 05:38:16 PM
^   the Cleveland Browns offset the Mount success and leaves me overall with a very average football fan experience.

+K for that one HS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: frank uible on December 10, 2012, 06:59:42 PM
As we all know, in life timing is everything. In my boyhood the Browns were the Genghis Khan of professional football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2012, 07:20:36 PM
Quote from: frank uible on December 10, 2012, 06:59:42 PM
As we all know, in life timing is everything. In my boyhood the Browns were the Genghis Khan of professional football.

Yeah, my Lions reign as kings ended 15 years before I moved to Michigan! :P  Since then, we had Barry Sanders and now Calvin Johnson, but in terms of playoffs we are the Cubs of the NFL.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2012, 12:41:09 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2012, 07:20:36 PM
Quote from: frank uible on December 10, 2012, 06:59:42 PM
As we all know, in life timing is everything. In my boyhood the Browns were the Genghis Khan of professional football.

Yeah, my Lions reign as kings ended 15 years before I moved to Michigan! :P  Since then, we had Barry Sanders and now Calvin Johnson, but in terms of playoffs we are the Cubs of the NFL.
The 1950's Lions, with a couple of Texans... Bobby Layne (http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=86), born in Santa Anna TX, and Heisman Trophy winner Doak Walker.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: frank uible on December 11, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
And coached by the Slaton, TX born Buddy Parker.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: DanPadavona on December 22, 2012, 05:00:17 PM
What I will say for Alliance/Mount Union is that the town absolutely loves and supports its team. They embrace the Purple Raiders just the way that a lot of small towns embrace their high school team. It is rare to see a small college team draw that much community interest, so hats off to them.

As a Cortland fan, I can say with all honesty that most of the town is apathetic to the Red Dragons. You see a core group which is there every game, every season. But there are 6000+ seats, and rarely is the stadium more than 1/3 full. Same for men's lacrosse. You can't ask for a better team to watch than Red Dragon lacrosse - multiple NCAA championship trips, a brutal out of conference schedule, close game after close game. And even on a brilliant sunny spring day, maybe 300 or 400 show up to see Stevenson or R.I.T. or Ithaca come to town. There were less than 800 for the Tufts game in the NCAA semifinals, and that will go down as one of the greatest games I have ever seen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on June 11, 2013, 11:55:17 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 09, 2012, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: desertraider on December 09, 2012, 05:35:08 PM

I never understood the "winning gets boring" mentality.

I think the mentality isn't that winning itself is boring, but that winning when it's essentially a pre-determined blowout nearly every week is, well, a different kind of experience. I mean, I've seen Ithaca win games 66-0, and I've seen them come back in a similar fashion to the way Mount did this week. And while it's always fun to watch a blowout now and again, there's something enjoyable about watching an actual game as opposed to a ritual killing. One where there are momentum swings, and that play, right there, might be a game-changer, a season-changer, not just the first of eight touchdowns on the day, or the 19th of the 48 straight you scored at one point. You probably experienced one or two momentum swings all season. Honestly, while you may think this is sour grapes, and while part of me would love the Bombers to be as good as Mount, I think you're the one missing out.

I'm sure you won't care when you're counting trophy number, 16 in a week, but I think about the two game-winning touchdowns IC scored in the waning seconds against Union and Salisbury, and the goal-line stand against Cortland, and I'd take a season like that over one that features 85% blowouts.

Pep can relate to a point....Pep's Saxons have never won a national title (like the Bombers) but for AU to win the Empire 8 and earn post-season games each of the past ten years has been a delight. And throughout those seasons, there have been those tightly-contested games. Nothing more exciting than pulling out a thriller with a big special teams play or a long drive for the winning kick. Can't imagine experiencing blowouts week in and week out when a team can predetermine how many points it will post on the board.

And perhaps those games are all too frequent for the Saxons, they get a strong alumni and parent following wherever they play. The NCAA game at Cortland on Thanksgiving Weekend 2010, for instance, Dan, seemed as if the Saxons had more fans than the Dragons...."and they've got that pep band over there..."

On Saxon Warriors!

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Lewdogg11 is ready to make some bold playoff predictions.  Here goes...

Gallaudet - 7
Hobart - 70
I see this going a lot like Alfred/SUNY Maritime a few years back.  I anticipate Hobart getting up big quick, then calling off the dogs for a late Gallaudet score.

St. John Fisher - 21
John Carroll - 31
I'm pulling hard here for Fisher and I think Fisher, if they put it all together, can pull out an upset.  But being conservative and playing the odds, I think JCU handles them.

Lebanon Valley - 21
Wittenberg - 35
Honestly, I have no idea on this one.  Wittenberg is an unknown for me.  Hobart beat them up last year, and Ali Marpet had a HUGE game and impressed some Whitt fans.  But d3.com thinks pretty highly of these Wittenburgers, so I think they bring the noise.

Framingham St. - 17
Ithaca - 24
This game scares me a little.  I think Framingham got a good matchup here and Ithaca got a bit of a trap game thrown at them again.  I'll say this, I will NOT be surprised if Framingham wins, but my heart tells me Ithaca wins in a monkeystomp.

Endicott - 17
Rowan - 35
Much like above, I think Endicott got a favorable draw with a game where they can compete.  Rowan seems to be bi-polar.  Based on some comparative scores and Endicott's terrible schedule, I think Rowan wins pretty big.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F655002%2Fthem-apples.jpg&hash=79cecb78dc14bc99d032e13111e6769c76227db6)



Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 21, 2013, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Lewdogg11 is ready to make some bold playoff predictions.  Here goes...

Gallaudet - 7
Hobart - 70
I see this going a lot like Alfred/SUNY Maritime a few years back.  I anticipate Hobart getting up big quick, then calling off the dogs for a late Gallaudet score.

St. John Fisher - 21
John Carroll - 31
I'm pulling hard here for Fisher and I think Fisher, if they put it all together, can pull out an upset.  But being conservative and playing the odds, I think JCU handles them.

Lebanon Valley - 21
Wittenberg - 35
Honestly, I have no idea on this one.  Wittenberg is an unknown for me.  Hobart beat them up last year, and Ali Marpet had a HUGE game and impressed some Whitt fans.  But d3.com thinks pretty highly of these Wittenburgers, so I think they bring the noise.

Framingham St. - 17
Ithaca - 24
This game scare me a little.  I think Framingham got a good matchup here and Ithaca got a bit of a trap game thrown at them again.  I'll say this, I will NOT be surprised if Framingham wins, but my heart tells me Ithaca wins in a monkeystomp.

Endicott - 17
Rowan - 35
Much like above, I think Endicott got a favorable draw with a game where they can compete.  Rowan seems to be bi-polar.  Based on some comparative scores and Endicott's terrible schedule, I think Rowan wins pretty big.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F655002%2Fthem-apples.jpg&hash=79cecb78dc14bc99d032e13111e6769c76227db6)

First off nice GWH pic! Love that whole ****ing scene! Secondly dlip thinks your picks are quite good. He can't say he really disagrees with any of them. The one game that scares dlip as well is IC/Framingham. dlip will say this time and again, the loss to a rival in the last week of the season can be incredibly deflating. Dlip thinks FS is a decent squad and with the playoff experience he thinks they will win this one. dlip is really hoping he is wrong here...really.

dlip is also pulling huge...iamhuge...for SJF against Carroll. Seems if if Carroll's O is nasty having given the UMU defense fits (which is basically unheard of). SJF is going to have it's hands full for sure and if Fenti isn't a ****ing monster they will lose.

Endicott/Rowan: if Rowan loses this game than **** them! dlip will be so pissed at this team that each year he picks high and each year he watches them underachieve with a very talented roster.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2013, 12:11:38 PM
+K for the Whittenberg reference.  Thanks for the information.

The Ithaca vs. Framingham State game is one of my favorite "fun" first round matchups.  One of the interesting things about the teams below the Top 5-10 in Division III is how different styles and strengths can play off one another.  As has been noted on several threads during the season - Ithaca won the Empire 8 more on the strength of their defense and special teams than their offense and hasn't scored more than 26 points since Week 1.  That can be a winning formula but also leaves you susceptible to close games where one or two fluky plays can turn the tide, and Framingham (despite their conference's history) is somewhat battle-tested (for a MASCAC/NEFC team anyway) having played Cortland tough last year and a competitive game this year against admittedly-bipolar Rowan (Framingham led in the fourth quarter and the game was not iced until the final minute).  Should be fun.

Like all the picks and would agree with each.  I might have given Leb Val more of a chance against Wittenberg until they stubbed their toes against Albright.  But I don't really like the East's chances in either of the inter-regional matchups.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2013, 12:11:38 PM
+K for the Whittenberg reference.  Thanks for the information.

The Ithaca vs. Framingham State game is one of my favorite "fun" first round matchups.  One of the interesting things about the teams below the Top 5-10 in Division III is how different styles and strengths can play off one another.  As has been noted on several threads during the season - Ithaca won the Empire 8 more on the strength of their defense and special teams than their offense and hasn't scored more than 26 points since Week 1.  That can be a winning formula but also leaves you susceptible to close games where one or two fluky plays can turn the tide, and Framingham (despite their conference's history) is somewhat battle-tested (for a MASCAC/NEFC team anyway) having played Cortland tough last year and a competitive game this year against admittedly-bipolar Rowan (Framingham led in the fourth quarter and the game was not iced until the final minute).  Should be fun.

Like all the picks and would agree with each.  I might have given Leb Val more of a chance against Wittenberg until they stubbed their toes against Albright.  But I don't really like the East's chances in either of the inter-regional matchups.

The Ithaca game's going to be close. They're too limited offensively to blow out teams with competent offenses. I think the coaching staff isn't going to let this team sleepwalk. In fact, considering they had locked up a playoff bid and Mike Welch's reputation for conservative play, I was actually stunned at how aggressive the game plan was.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 21, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
Enjoyed reading the playoff capsules.  Only beef with Hobart's was the passing yardage allowed in the Utica and UofR games were after the Statesmen had (iam)HUGE leads in the second half (28-7 and 34-13 on Utica in the 3rd and 4th qtr, respectively, and 28-14 and 42-14 in the 3rd and 4th qtrs of the UofR game). 

The point of the team needing to more consistent on offense and not giving up long passes on D was dead on otherwise.  That said I view the latter as being more of teams figuring out how to take advantage of the aggressiveness / over pursuit of DW and TC and taking advantage of Bart's LBs who are younger and may not be as used to having to drop back since they blitz a lot / stack the box.

Hopefully they'll get off to a better start vs. GU than they have in prior games.  The Statesmen O didn't score a TD on UofR until 13:52 to go in the 2nd qtr.  That's not going to cut it if Hobart wants a long playoff run.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 03:25:47 PM
I thought the capsule nailed Ithaca well, except for the turning point. The Salisbury game changed on the blocked punt. And I thought the season turned during the Fisher game, when the Bombers used two long kick returns to turn a 7-3 game just before the half into a 12-7 one just after. The Bombers never trailed again in the game, and came through with a win their program needed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 21, 2013, 05:12:52 PM
Gallaudet - 0
Hobart - 41
-Hobart's defense will be so much faster than anything Gallaudet has seen. Webb has a field day to open up the first round for Bart.

St. John Fisher - 37
John Carroll - 31 F/OT
-Huge homer pick and I don't care, Fisher gets a pick 6 in OT to meet up with Hobart in the 2nd round!

Lebanon Valley - 17
Wittenberg - 34
-Was not impressed with the MAC at all this year, I think Witt makes a good impression in their opening game of the tourney.

Framingham St. - 10
Ithaca - 20
-ICs defense and special teams carry the Bombers to the 2nd round!

Endicott - 27
Rowan - 24
-East Region upset of the week, Endicott channels 'Dem Spicy Boyz and gives the NEFC their 3rd win in the NCAAs!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 05:28:37 PM
[quote author=Upstate link=topic=4930.msg1555936#msg1555936 date=1385071972

St. John Fisher - 37
John Carroll - 31 F/OT
Huge homer pick and I don't care, Fisher gets a pick 6 in OT to meet up with Hobart in the 2nd round!

Framingham St. - 10
Ithaca - 20
-ICs defense and special teams carry the Bombers to the 2nd round!

[/quote]

See you guys in the Stagg Bowl. Try to remember to bring a kick coverage unit this time. Sam Carney can't play defense if he's winded from the opening kickoff
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 21, 2013, 08:13:37 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 21, 2013, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Lewdogg11 is ready to make some bold playoff predictions.  Here goes...

Gallaudet - 7
Hobart - 70
I see this going a lot like Alfred/SUNY Maritime a few years back.  I anticipate Hobart getting up big quick, then calling off the dogs for a late Gallaudet score.

St. John Fisher - 21
John Carroll - 31
I'm pulling hard here for Fisher and I think Fisher, if they put it all together, can pull out an upset.  But being conservative and playing the odds, I think JCU handles them.

Lebanon Valley - 21
Wittenberg - 35
Honestly, I have no idea on this one.  Wittenberg is an unknown for me.  Hobart beat them up last year, and Ali Marpet had a HUGE game and impressed some Whitt fans.  But d3.com thinks pretty highly of these Wittenburgers, so I think they bring the noise.

Framingham St. - 17
Ithaca - 24
This game scare me a little.  I think Framingham got a good matchup here and Ithaca got a bit of a trap game thrown at them again.  I'll say this, I will NOT be surprised if Framingham wins, but my heart tells me Ithaca wins in a monkeystomp.

Endicott - 17
Rowan - 35
Much like above, I think Endicott got a favorable draw with a game where they can compete.  Rowan seems to be bi-polar.  Based on some comparative scores and Endicott's terrible schedule, I think Rowan wins pretty big.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F655002%2Fthem-apples.jpg&hash=79cecb78dc14bc99d032e13111e6769c76227db6)

First off nice GWH pic! Love that whole ****ing scene! Secondly dlip thinks your picks are quite good. He can't say he really disagrees with any of them. The one game that scares dlip as well is IC/Framingham. dlip will say this time and again, the loss to a rival in the last week of the season can be incredibly deflating. Dlip thinks FS is a decent squad and with the playoff experience he thinks they will win this one. dlip is really hoping he is wrong here...really.

dlip is also pulling huge...iamhuge...for SJF against Carroll. Seems if if Carroll's O is nasty having given the UMU defense fits (which is basically unheard of). SJF is going to have it's hands full for sure and if Fenti isn't a ****ing monster they will lose.

Endicott/Rowan: if Rowan loses this game than **** them! dlip will be so pissed at this team that each year he picks high and each year he watches them underachieve with a very talented roster.

Dlip I'm calling you out here for a second. I'm a NEFC/MASCAC guy, but I thought I've seen you say before that the East needs the Framingham / Endicott of the world to schedule tough out of conference match ups and win some games in the playoffs. IF Framingham wins, wouldn't that be a good thing since they did go out and schedule two playoff teams from this year? Doesn't it show they are getting better and scheduling tougher teams? In my opinion, even though its not much, outside of Horbart, I don't think the Liberty League is really better than the NEFC/MASCAC conferences as a whole. Now whether that is because the Liberty League is down (which i think it is) or the smaller New England schools have become better (a little bit), that is an argument for another day.

I just think its good that the New England teams who made the playoffs, actually went out and scheduled quality teams. Even though Kean was not great this year, they have been a competitive to above competitive team in the NJAC recently , so I do give kudos to Endicott going out and playing them this year, despite Kean's below average season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2013, 06:07:23 AM
Fair enough boxer :) Regarding Dlip's comments towards Framingham and hoping he is wrong with his pick, that mostly has to do with Dlip's being a fan of the Bombers. Honestly, and Dlip has said this before, he basically roots for the Bombers against any opponent besides his beloved Union Dutchmen. His picking of Framingham to win is based upon this programs maturation and success I've the past few seasons.

Regarding Rowan/Endicott that is all about Dlip's frustration with the Profs and how IDHO they continue to be inconsistent as hell even with a plethora of talent year in and year out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Craft_Beermeister on November 22, 2013, 06:14:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 21, 2013, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Lewdogg11 is ready to make some bold playoff predictions.  Here goes...

Gallaudet - 7
Hobart - 70
I see this going a lot like Alfred/SUNY Maritime a few years back.  I anticipate Hobart getting up big quick, then calling off the dogs for a late Gallaudet score.

St. John Fisher - 21
John Carroll - 31
I'm pulling hard here for Fisher and I think Fisher, if they put it all together, can pull out an upset.  But being conservative and playing the odds, I think JCU handles them.

Lebanon Valley - 21
Wittenberg - 35
Honestly, I have no idea on this one.  Wittenberg is an unknown for me.  Hobart beat them up last year, and Ali Marpet had a HUGE game and impressed some Whitt fans.  But d3.com thinks pretty highly of these Wittenburgers, so I think they bring the noise.

Framingham St. - 17
Ithaca - 24
This game scare me a little.  I think Framingham got a good matchup here and Ithaca got a bit of a trap game thrown at them again.  I'll say this, I will NOT be surprised if Framingham wins, but my heart tells me Ithaca wins in a monkeystomp.

Endicott - 17
Rowan - 35
Much like above, I think Endicott got a favorable draw with a game where they can compete.  Rowan seems to be bi-polar.  Based on some comparative scores and Endicott's terrible schedule, I think Rowan wins pretty big.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F655002%2Fthem-apples.jpg&hash=79cecb78dc14bc99d032e13111e6769c76227db6)

First off nice GWH pic! Love that whole ****ing scene! Secondly dlip thinks your picks are quite good. He can't say he really disagrees with any of them. The one game that scares dlip as well is IC/Framingham. dlip will say this time and again, the loss to a rival in the last week of the season can be incredibly deflating. Dlip thinks FS is a decent squad and with the playoff experience he thinks they will win this one. dlip is really hoping he is wrong here...really.

dlip is also pulling huge...iamhuge...for SJF against Carroll. Seems if if Carroll's O is nasty having given the UMU defense fits (which is basically unheard of). SJF is going to have it's hands full for sure and if Fenti isn't a ****ing monster they will lose.

Endicott/Rowan: if Rowan loses this game than **** them! dlip will be so pissed at this team that each year he picks high and each year he watches them underachieve with a very talented roster.

John Carol's Meyers is a good QB with a strong arm, but from what I saw in the Mount Union game he tends to force the ball into tight coverage and on some longer throws for some reason he throws rainbows though it seems like he should have the arm for passing with much better trajectory.  The JCU receivers have very good hands, but didn't seem to get much separation except for when Meyers checked down to receivers in a shorter zone.  If SJF's DBs can have tight coverage and fight for the ball there could be turnover opportunities.  Meyers is a tall QB and though less mobile than Mount Union's Burke Mount wasn't able to get much pressure on him though JCU threw the ball a lot in the game.  One time in the 4th quarter of last week's game Mount had considerable pressure on Meyers which resulted in Meyers fumbling and jumping on the loose ball.  The Mount defender immediately jumped on the QB and Meyers seemed shook up for several plays only to get bailed out by a very questionable pass interference call on a badly thrown pass on 4th and extremely long.  After getting a first down gift deep in their own territory was able to regain his composure.  My point is that I think that with enough pressure Meyers can be rattled, plus he did bailout from a Div 1 team so in the right circumstances he might have some quit in him though I'm not sure how much he has been tested in the past.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 22, 2013, 06:22:30 AM
Who's Horbart?  I don't recall playing them in conference this year. (Says the fattest fingered PDA writer who never spell checks anything that isn't business related)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 22, 2013, 08:18:54 AM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 22, 2013, 06:22:30 AM
Who's Horbart?  I don't recall playing them in conference this year. (Says the fattest fingered PDA writer who never spell checks anything that isn't business related)

Ha.  I have an Iphone that I might have to get rid of since my fingers are too fat to text on the dam thing!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 23, 2013, 10:16:05 AM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 22, 2013, 06:22:30 AM
Who's Horbart?  I don't recall playing them in conference this year. (Says the fattest fingered PDA writer who never spell checks anything that isn't business related)

Sometimes my fingers get a little crazy...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: hobart16 on November 23, 2013, 04:05:07 PM
Looks like Bombers 798891 picked up a few bucks from the bookies in Vegas with his picks this weekend. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 25, 2013, 09:19:02 AM
Last night's podcast including SC SR FB Joel Altavesta on his MVP performance in the ECAC NA Bowl, SR OLB Devin Worthington of Hobart on the GU game and previewing SJFC, why IC shouldn't be hosting in Rd 2 and more:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2013/11/24/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 25, 2013, 09:39:58 AM
I think the seeding in the Mount Union bracket is a bit more clear now. Framingham was the three seed but couldn't host. Just my guess and then geographic proximity b/c Wittanberg and Wesley were too far?

1. Mount Union
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Framingham St
4. Wittenberg
5. Wesley
6. Ithaca
7. Lebanon Valley
8. Washington and Jefferson
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 25, 2013, 09:45:08 AM
Yeah, that could be it.  Springfield, OH to Dover, DE is over 500 miles.  Google maps shows it anywhere from 524 to 550 pending the route you take.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 25, 2013, 02:31:32 PM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 25, 2013, 09:39:58 AM
I think the seeding in the Mount Union bracket is a bit more clear now. Framingham was the three seed but couldn't host. Just my guess and then geographic proximity b/c Wittanberg and Wesley were too far?

1. Mount Union
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Framingham St
4. Wittenberg
5. Wesley
6. Ithaca
7. Lebanon Valley
8. Washington and Jefferson

now that makes more sense than anything else I have heard.  Still screws Hopkins though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 25, 2013, 05:34:12 PM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 25, 2013, 09:39:58 AM
I think the seeding in the Mount Union bracket is a bit more clear now. Framingham was the three seed but couldn't host. Just my guess and then geographic proximity b/c Wittanberg and Wesley were too far?

1. Mount Union
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Framingham St
4. Wittenberg
5. Wesley
6. Ithaca
7. Lebanon Valley
8. Washington and Jefferson

I would've said:

1. Mount Union

2. Johns Hopkins (We know the first two automatically.)

3. Wittenberg (9-0 in "Region" and respectable SOS.)

4. Framingham State (One loss, but to an RRO -- Rowan -- and very good SOS.)

5. Wesley (Two losses, but extreme SOS.  Not placed above Framingham St. based on Framingham's very good SOS and 9-1 record.  Both lost to Rowan by nearly identical amounts.)

6. Ithaca (Win vs. RRO -- SJF -- placed team above remaining two.  SOS well below Wesley.)

7. Lebanon Valley (Was behind Ithaca in last seen Regional Rankings and the losses were equal, meaning no reason to swap, although Lycoming may have become an RRO in final unseen rankings.)

8. Washington & Jefferson (If Lycoming was an RRO, it would explain the 7/8 ordering better since W&J had a better SOS than LebVal.)

Note that because of the location of Wittenberg, Mount Union, Wittenberg, Lebanon Valley and W&J had to be podded together to avoid any Second Round flight -- as per the new NCAA's budgeting requirements.  The question concerning the ordering of JHU/ITH/FS/WES is an interesting one.  My inclination is this: the Committee viewed Wesley and Ithaca as virtually identical seeds -- you could balance them in either direction and have valid arguments either way.  As such, and in order to not force Framingham State, as a higher seed that couldn't host, to travel a huge distance, they lined up the teams in a way that left Wesley for nearby JHU and left Framingham for nearby Ithaca.  They are not required to strictly follow seedings, but my guesstimate is it ended up as the above if they were forced to seed.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 25, 2013, 06:39:36 PM
Anyone know why Framingham couldn't host?

And how do we know that Wittenberg isn't the #2 seed?  How do we know the first 2 automatically?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 25, 2013, 06:44:29 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 25, 2013, 06:39:36 PM
Anyone know why Framingham couldn't host?

And how do we know that Wittenberg isn't the #2 seed?  How do we know the first 2 automatically?

The attempt has been in the last couple seasons to have the Committee choose the top 8 teams and guarantee them 1s and 2s -- and place them in the bracket (in normal 1/2 positions) before building the matchups around them.  Brad Bankston, last year's Committee Chair, indicated that process was being used on 'In the HuddLLe," and Duey Naatz, this year's Chair, suggested that they hadn't changed that approach.  Looking at the pure numbers, Hopkins was slightly better than Witt in SOS and had a slightly better overall resume in my view (I considered this earlier -- but it still fits the 1/2 bracketing situation correctly).

As for Framingham State -- looks like the stands and lack of press area probably made them non-compliant, and they didn't want to host offsite.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 25, 2013, 06:56:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 25, 2013, 06:44:29 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 25, 2013, 06:39:36 PM
Anyone know why Framingham couldn't host?

And how do we know that Wittenberg isn't the #2 seed?  How do we know the first 2 automatically?

The attempt has been in the last couple seasons to have the Committee choose the top 8 teams and guarantee them 1s and 2s -- and place them in the bracket (in normal 1/2 positions) before building the matchups around them.  Brad Bankston, last year's Committee Chair, indicated that process was being used on 'In the HuddLLe," and Duey Naatz, this year's Chair, suggested that they hadn't changed that approach.  Looking at the pure numbers, Hopkins was slightly better than Witt in SOS and had a slightly better overall resume in my view (I considered this earlier -- but it still fits the 1/2 bracketing situation correctly).

Yea that makes sense, but I'm willing to bet that if Vegas put out odds, Witt would be a 7 point favorite over JHU on a neutral field.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 10:27:09 AM
If you're looking at the photo of their stadium on our site, it's shot from the press box side, so the box isn't visible. I understand there's one there, at least.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 26, 2013, 10:46:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 10:27:09 AM
If you're looking at the photo of their stadium on our site, it's shot from the press box side, so the box isn't visible. I understand there's one there, at least.

If you are talking about Framingham, yes but that stadium is the municipal Stadium owned by the City of Framingham (Bowditch Field).  It is the nicest HS football stadium in Massachusetts, and it would probably one of the nicest college stadiums in Massachusetts (After BC, Harvard, Holy Cross, and maybe Amherst, and Williams) as well. I can only guess it is not ok for hosting because it is off campus and there are no showers/lockers on site?

I also do not believe Framingham State plays all their games there, their campus stadium (maybe the worst stadium in all of d3) most certainly could not host, although I heard they redid it a few years ago, but I can almost bet it is still not good enough.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2013, 11:07:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 10:27:09 AM
If you're looking at the photo of their stadium on our site, it's shot from the press box side, so the box isn't visible. I understand there's one there, at least.

No, I was speaking of the Google Maps satellite view of their field -- at least the field in closest proximity near the reservoir.

[EDIT: The photo of which you're speaking made me actually go to the overhead view as it seemed like the seating was large enough to accommodate the NCAA's demands.  The stadium I found had very abbreviated stands and no discernible press box.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 26, 2013, 11:10:04 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2013, 11:07:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 10:27:09 AM
If you're looking at the photo of their stadium on our site, it's shot from the press box side, so the box isn't visible. I understand there's one there, at least.

No, I was speaking of the Google Maps satellite view of their field -- at least the field in closest proximity near the reservoir.

Yea that is the campus stadium.  I coach a team who played there 5 years ago and it was not only the worst college field I had ever seen, it was the worst HS football field I had ever seen (it did have turf though).

Bowditch Field is in under construction on the googlemaps view.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 12:02:22 PM
Yes, they've played at Bowditch Field this season, not Maple Street or whatever the other one is.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 26, 2013, 12:19:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 12:02:22 PM
Yes, they've played at Bowditch Field this season, not Maple Street or whatever the other one is.

Maple St. is the campus Stadium.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 26, 2013, 03:17:00 PM
Last week was a great weekend for the East.  Mostly in the form of St. John Fisher.  Hobart did what we expected.  Rowan did what we had hoped.  Lebanon Valley proved to us that the MAC was not as good as some of us maybe thought.(Delaware Valley's performance helped this thinking as well)  I watched the Ithaca/Framingham game and I was telling Utah, they are just not impressive.  Somehow they have a knack for winning which you have to really respect though.  Offensively, they just aren't good.  But they could have packed it in but they didn't and somehow won, i'm not even sure how.  That said, although Framingham played a good game and should have/could have won, I wasn't impressed with them either.  Watching the Rowan game, I think Rowan was much more impressive to watch than either of them.

So for this weekend, i'm not too keen on some Hobart posters already packing it in because of injuries.  Hobart has so much experience in the playoffs and they are just a good team regardless and well coached.  Key injuries or not, I don't expect Hobart to lay down, and I think it will be a great game.  I do think Fisher might win, more than anything because Fisher is flying high right now.  But playing in Geneva after November 1 is no picnic.  I think Ithaca might get smoked, and I fear Rowan will get smoked too. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2013, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 26, 2013, 12:19:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 26, 2013, 12:02:22 PM
Yes, they've played at Bowditch Field this season, not Maple Street or whatever the other one is.

Maple St. is the campus Stadium.

Jonny -

Instead of guessing further on my end, I put in an official request for info a little bit ago.  If I hear back, I'll let you know the answer.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2013, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 26, 2013, 03:17:00 PM
Last week was a great weekend for the East.  Mostly in the form of St. John Fisher.  Hobart did what we expected.  Rowan did what we had hoped.  Lebanon Valley proved to us that the MAC was not as good as some of us maybe thought.(Delaware Valley's performance helped this thinking as well)  I watched the Ithaca/Framingham game and I was telling Utah, they are just not impressive.  Somehow they have a knack for winning which you have to really respect though.  Offensively, they just aren't good.  But they could have packed it in but they didn't and somehow won, i'm not even sure how.  That said, although Framingham played a good game and should have/could have won, I wasn't impressed with them either.  Watching the Rowan game, I think Rowan was much more impressive to watch than either of them.

So for this weekend, i'm not too keen on some Hobart posters already packing it in because of injuries.  Hobart has so much experience in the playoffs and they are just a good team regardless and well coached.  Key injuries or not, I don't expect Hobart to lay down, and I think it will be a great game.  I do think Fisher might win, more than anything because Fisher is flying high right now.  But playing in Geneva after November 1 is no picnic.  I think Ithaca might get smoked, and I fear Rowan will get smoked too.

Good post, LD.  One thought, though.  When I called Ithaca at Union in Week 3, I wasn't impressed at all with the Ithaca Offense, but I thought their Defense was tremendous.  During the season, Dempsey came in for Neumann and sparked the Offense to win the E8.  My thought is that Saturday was a trap game for Ithaca, perhaps with the team looking ahead a bit.  We know that's a mistake based on the Curry debacle last decade, but 18-22yo men don't have those memories.  During the second half, it seemed like the Bombers could move the ball almost at will compared to the first half.  Also, the Rams had a very long drive to keep the ball away from Ithaca to end the first half.  This strategy almost worked until Ithaca made defensive adjustments in the second half.  So, while the Ithaca Offense may seem off a bit, I applaud the maturation that occurred over the last two months and believe that they can put up a fight vs. Wesley this weekend.  Will they win?  Tough call.  But I don't see a drubbing in their future.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 26, 2013, 04:24:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2013, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 26, 2013, 03:17:00 PM
Last week was a great weekend for the East.  Mostly in the form of St. John Fisher.  Hobart did what we expected.  Rowan did what we had hoped.  Lebanon Valley proved to us that the MAC was not as good as some of us maybe thought.(Delaware Valley's performance helped this thinking as well)  I watched the Ithaca/Framingham game and I was telling Utah, they are just not impressive.  Somehow they have a knack for winning which you have to really respect though.  Offensively, they just aren't good.  But they could have packed it in but they didn't and somehow won, i'm not even sure how.  That said, although Framingham played a good game and should have/could have won, I wasn't impressed with them either.  Watching the Rowan game, I think Rowan was much more impressive to watch than either of them.

So for this weekend, i'm not too keen on some Hobart posters already packing it in because of injuries.  Hobart has so much experience in the playoffs and they are just a good team regardless and well coached.  Key injuries or not, I don't expect Hobart to lay down, and I think it will be a great game.  I do think Fisher might win, more than anything because Fisher is flying high right now.  But playing in Geneva after November 1 is no picnic.  I think Ithaca might get smoked, and I fear Rowan will get smoked too.

Good post, LD.  One thought, though.  When I called Ithaca at Union in Week 3, I wasn't impressed at all with the Ithaca Offense, but I thought their Defense was tremendous.  During the season, Dempsey came in for Neumann and sparked the Offense to win the E8.  My thought is that Saturday was a trap game for Ithaca, perhaps with the team looking ahead a bit.  We know that's a mistake based on the Curry debacle last decade, but 18-22yo men don't have those memories.  During the second half, it seemed like the Bombers could move the ball almost at will compared to the first half.  Also, the Rams had a very long drive to keep the ball away from Ithaca to end the first half.  This strategy almost worked until Ithaca made defensive adjustments in the second half.  So, while the Ithaca Offense may seem off a bit, I applaud the maturation that occurred over the last two months and believe that they can put up a fight vs. Wesley this weekend.  Will they win?  Tough call.  But I don't see a drubbing in their future.

I agree Framingham was definitely a trap game, but they didn't really impress me.  I actually thought Framingham was going to be better than they were.  Ithaca's defense is good, but Framingham just didn't do it for me.  That said, Ithaca could completely be terrible in the box score against Wesley and pull out another head scratching W, but I just think Wesley is too big, too fast, and too athletic.  I like your optimism, and I wish I shared your optimism, it's just not there.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 26, 2013, 04:45:47 PM
I don't buy the Bart posters getting all down in the dumps about injuries either. They have 3 All Americans on that team. Unless the back up QB comes in and throws 4-5 INTs the game is going to be a good one. They have a really nice sized O-line to block for Webb, yes PA said they might be down a guy or two but a program like Bart likely has depth to at least give them a decent option.

Fisher's 3-3-5 can be a nightmare for QBs. I don't know if Bart just wanted to keep it simple and just run the ball but they look to be limited at QB, even when healthy. If Judd, Priesh and the rest of their front 6 can put Bart in 3rd and longs their secondary should be able to make some big plays!

ICs defense and special teams carried them all year, I don't remember seeing an IC defense this good in a decade. They are so fast and have a knack for creating turnovers. They had the #1 defense in the E8 yet the #7 offense but still won the conference. I think they keep IC in the game but I can see Wesley pulling away late if the IC offense doesn't help out the Defense this week.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 26, 2013, 05:43:33 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 26, 2013, 04:24:36 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 26, 2013, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 26, 2013, 03:17:00 PM
Last week was a great weekend for the East.  Mostly in the form of St. John Fisher.  Hobart did what we expected.  Rowan did what we had hoped.  Lebanon Valley proved to us that the MAC was not as good as some of us maybe thought.(Delaware Valley's performance helped this thinking as well)  I watched the Ithaca/Framingham game and I was telling Utah, they are just not impressive.  Somehow they have a knack for winning which you have to really respect though.  Offensively, they just aren't good.  But they could have packed it in but they didn't and somehow won, i'm not even sure how.  That said, although Framingham played a good game and should have/could have won, I wasn't impressed with them either.  Watching the Rowan game, I think Rowan was much more impressive to watch than either of them.

So for this weekend, i'm not too keen on some Hobart posters already packing it in because of injuries.  Hobart has so much experience in the playoffs and they are just a good team regardless and well coached.  Key injuries or not, I don't expect Hobart to lay down, and I think it will be a great game.  I do think Fisher might win, more than anything because Fisher is flying high right now.  But playing in Geneva after November 1 is no picnic.  I think Ithaca might get smoked, and I fear Rowan will get smoked too.

Good post, LD.  One thought, though.  When I called Ithaca at Union in Week 3, I wasn't impressed at all with the Ithaca Offense, but I thought their Defense was tremendous.  During the season, Dempsey came in for Neumann and sparked the Offense to win the E8.  My thought is that Saturday was a trap game for Ithaca, perhaps with the team looking ahead a bit.  We know that's a mistake based on the Curry debacle last decade, but 18-22yo men don't have those memories.  During the second half, it seemed like the Bombers could move the ball almost at will compared to the first half.  Also, the Rams had a very long drive to keep the ball away from Ithaca to end the first half.  This strategy almost worked until Ithaca made defensive adjustments in the second half.  So, while the Ithaca Offense may seem off a bit, I applaud the maturation that occurred over the last two months and believe that they can put up a fight vs. Wesley this weekend.  Will they win?  Tough call.  But I don't see a drubbing in their future.

I agree Framingham was definitely a trap game, but they didn't really impress me.  I actually thought Framingham was going to be better than they were.  Ithaca's defense is good, but Framingham just didn't do it for me.  That said, Ithaca could completely be terrible in the box score against Wesley and pull out another head scratching W, but I just think Wesley is too big, too fast, and too athletic.  I like your optimism, and I wish I shared your optimism, it's just not there.

I've watched about 4-5 Ithaca games on the internet this year, and I've come to the following conclusions/observations:

-They love to run play action, but the run fakes are so slow that their O-line often times gets beat and the QB has a defender in his face before he can throw the ball.  Dempsey also looks a little awkward back there on the fakes, and that doesn't help things.

-If the QB can get some time, the WRs and RBs in the flat/crossing patterns can make some great plays.  This is the only way I think Ithaca can win games in the playoffs. 

-They went back to the senior running back last week (Jones), but I think the freshman (Skea) is a little better.  Either way Ithaca also loves to run some sort of weird inside zone run that never seems to work. 

-If the QB has time, he is very accurate and makes some very tough throws.  He is not a runner though, and that hurts them.

-The defense is tough, and all 11 guys hit hard, can cover well, and tackle well.  They also make adjustments that seem to hurt teams in the 2nd half.

-The secondary is small though, and taller bigger receivers can do some damage even while covered.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 26, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
When you look at the stats for Ithaca you have to wonder how they are not a 500 team.  I saw them play Salisbury and was not impressed at all by the offense.  They will have to bring much more than that to defeat Wesley.  The defense was very good and kept them in the game long enough to win the game.  I think they have trouble scoring on Wesley and if they d line does not get pressure on the QB they will have trouble with the receivers.  They had no worries about a passing game against Salisbury, that won't be the case this weekend.  I think Wesley wins this game, easily without any turnovers. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 26, 2013, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
When you look at the stats for Ithaca you have to wonder how they are not a 500 team.  I saw them play Salisbury and was not impressed at all by the offense.  They will have to bring much more than that to defeat Wesley.  The defense was very good and kept them in the game long enough to win the game.  I think they have trouble scoring on Wesley and if they d line does not get pressure on the QB they will have trouble with the receivers.  They had no worries about a passing game against Salisbury, that won't be the case this weekend.  I think Wesley wins this game, easily without any turnovers.

Yea, Ithaca will try to run the ball, and then keep running it again and again even if it isn't working.  Then they will sprinkle some play action in there every now and then.  Then they will run a few concepts/plays that work really well, and make you ask yourself why they don't do those things more often.

I think Ithaca's only chance is if Dempsey has a big day, and they can exploit Wesley's defense with crossing patterns and passes to the backs out of the backfield.  They don't have any superstars on offense, but they do have 7 or 8 guys who can all do the same thing (block well, catch well, and run routes well enough where any one of them can beat you deep if you don't cover them properly).

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 26, 2013, 10:13:50 PM
Ithaca wins games because their special teams unit is unreal. The Bombers' special teams won three games for them this year and impacted half a dozen. They're NOT very good offensively, but they'll kill other teams on special teams. But this is also a team that has won what, 5 games by less than a touchdown. It would be pretty easy for the team to be 5-5. But amazingly, here they are
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: sjfcards on November 26, 2013, 10:16:48 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 26, 2013, 10:13:50 PM
Ithaca wins games because their special teams unit is unreal. The Bombers' special teams won three games for them this year and impacted half a dozen. They're NOT very good offensively, but they'll kill other teams on special teams. But this is also a team that has won what, 5 games by less than a touchdown. It would be pretty easy for the team to be 5-5. But amazingly, here they are

Hence the nod to Coach Welch and his staff for E8 coach of the year. I don't think anyone can/would argue against that. The team just found ways to win, and the special teams coach should have been the running for the coach of the year by himself.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 26, 2013, 10:21:51 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 26, 2013, 10:16:48 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 26, 2013, 10:13:50 PM
Ithaca wins games because their special teams unit is unreal. The Bombers' special teams won three games for them this year and impacted half a dozen. They're NOT very good offensively, but they'll kill other teams on special teams. But this is also a team that has won what, 5 games by less than a touchdown. It would be pretty easy for the team to be 5-5. But amazingly, here they are

Hence the nod to Coach Welch and his staff for E8 coach of the year. I don't think anyone can/would argue against that. The team just found ways to win, and the special teams coach should have been the running for the coach of the year by himself.

Mike handles special teams. And he is seriously good at it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 27, 2013, 09:17:56 AM
It really has been quite the run for IC this season right through being down 17-3 to Framingham. They really just find ways to win and obviously the special teams play has been heads and shoulders above everyone else (got rid of their dandruff as well). Wishing the Bombers all the luck in the world come Saturday. Lord knows they'll need it against a very athletic and inspired Wesley team. Go Bombers!!!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 27, 2013, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 26, 2013, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
When you look at the stats for Ithaca you have to wonder how they are not a 500 team.  I saw them play Salisbury and was not impressed at all by the offense.  They will have to bring much more than that to defeat Wesley.  The defense was very good and kept them in the game long enough to win the game.  I think they have trouble scoring on Wesley and if they d line does not get pressure on the QB they will have trouble with the receivers.  They had no worries about a passing game against Salisbury, that won't be the case this weekend.  I think Wesley wins this game, easily without any turnovers.

Yea, Ithaca will try to run the ball, and then keep running it again and again even if it isn't working.  Then they will sprinkle some play action in there every now and then.  Then they will run a few concepts/plays that work really well, and make you ask yourself why they don't do those things more often.

I think Ithaca's only chance is if Dempsey has a big day, and they can exploit Wesley's defense with crossing patterns and passes to the backs out of the backfield.  They don't have any superstars on offense, but they do have 7 or 8 guys who can all do the same thing (block well, catch well, and run routes well enough where any one of them can beat you deep if you don't cover them properly).

Utes, if there is one spot Wesley is weak on D it is covering the short underneath stuff, Hopkins had a field day with it.  Looks like Wesley will have to step up on D and take that away.  I still thinks Wesley gets in the 20's and don't see Ithaca doing that.  Now, that is if both teams play a clean game.  Turnovers and special teams can always turn a game around.  That is what happened in the Salisbury game, blocked punt gave Ithaca life.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: sjfcards on November 27, 2013, 02:33:19 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
When you look at the stats for Ithaca you have to wonder how they are not a 500 team.  I saw them play Salisbury and was not impressed at all by the offense.  They will have to bring much more than that to defeat Wesley.  The defense was very good and kept them in the game long enough to win the game.  I think they have trouble scoring on Wesley and if they d line does not get pressure on the QB they will have trouble with the receivers.  They had no worries about a passing game against Salisbury, that won't be the case this weekend.  I think Wesley wins this game, easily without any turnovers.

Going into the Fisher/Ithaca game I felt much the same way. In fact, as my wife and I pulled onto the IC campus, she said something about IC winning, and my response was basically "yeah...we'll see". Fast forward a few hours, and I was sitting in the car on the way back trying to figure out how IC had beat Fisher. The D is legit, and the special teams give the offense enough short fields to do some damage. The formula may not make sense to us, but they have won a lot of games this year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 27, 2013, 05:33:35 PM
This Ithaca team won't surprise you. They haven't scored more than 26 points in the last 10 weeks. There's no real difference between Dempsy/skea and Neumann/jones. They're a flawed offense, but it's an opportunistic defense however, and, without being hyperbolic, it might be the best special teams unit you'll face all season. Both returnees will burn you, the coverage units will be right there if you muff a punt.

Defensively, there's not much of a pass rush, and big wideouts can hurt them. But they cover and tackle well.

Wesley probably wins comfortably, 34-10 or so. But the Bombers have been playing with house money since beating fisher. They could lose by 70 on Saturday and I wouldn't care. Just a great team to root for and watch.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 27, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 27, 2013, 05:33:35 PM
This Ithaca team won't surprise you. They haven't scored more than 26 points in the last 10 weeks. There's no real difference between Dempsy/skea and Neumann/jones. They're a flawed offense, but it's an opportunistic defense however, and, without being hyperbolic, it might be the best special teams unit you'll face all season. Both returnees will burn you, the coverage units will be right there if you muff a punt.

Defensively, there's not much of a pass rush, and big wideouts can hurt them. But they cover and tackle well.

Wesley probably wins comfortably, 34-10 or so. But the Bombers have been playing with house money since beating fisher. They could lose by 70 on Saturday and I wouldn't care. Just a great team to root for and watch.

Well Wesley hasn't done too much to impress me this year by just looking at their scores.  They lost to Rowan by a TD, and they beat Salisbury by 3.  I think Ithaca can beat them.

And I'm not a big fan of Delaware either (or Wilmington anyway).  Quick random story for you.

I work in Law enforcement in the Boston area.  I guy who works for the City I work in gets a letter in the mail from the Wilmington, DE police department saying that he owes the City $210 for going though a red light in Wilmington, and there is a photo of a vehicle with Delaware plates driving through a red light.  The guy tells me that he has never been to Delaware, and that the car in the photo is obviously not his (I checked his story, it was legit).  So I call Wilmington PD to see if I can get to the bottom of this.  I leave about 7 messages, with 7 different people in the Wilmington PD with not one return phone call.  Complete BS.

So I call the Delaware RMV and get nowhere.  I ask them how this could even happen, and they tell me that the owner of the car (Delaware resident) signed a statement that this random person from Massachusetts was driving their car (obvious that they just went online and got a random name/address from whitepages.com).  I am then told that there is nothing to do about it except call the police department where the owner lives (not Wilmington but close), and have them follow up.  So I call that local department.  5 messages with 5 different people, no call back again.  Another useless police department.  I can't even believe that this could happen (that a police department can mail a citation to someone just because the owner said they were driving the car), but that is another story.

I then call the City of Wilmington's mayors office and city council members offices.  Nothing again, no call backs, nothing.

Finally I get in touch with the Head Clerk of the Superior Court of Delaware in New Castle County and talk to the nicest person you can imagine.  She gets the info, tells me that the ticket will be voided and the owner of the car investigated.  She then tells me of course that she is a huge Red Sox fan and went to Law School in Boston and how much she loved Boston.  Anyway, after a nice chat justice was served and my negative impression of Delaware was lifted a little.

Go Bombers
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 27, 2013, 07:12:04 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 27, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 27, 2013, 05:33:35 PM
This Ithaca team won't surprise you. They haven't scored more than 26 points in the last 10 weeks. There's no real difference between Dempsy/skea and Neumann/jones. They're a flawed offense, but it's an opportunistic defense however, and, without being hyperbolic, it might be the best special teams unit you'll face all season. Both returnees will burn you, the coverage units will be right there if you muff a punt.

Defensively, there's not much of a pass rush, and big wideouts can hurt them. But they cover and tackle well.

Wesley probably wins comfortably, 34-10 or so. But the Bombers have been playing with house money since beating fisher. They could lose by 70 on Saturday and I wouldn't care. Just a great team to root for and watch.

Well Wesley hasn't done too much to impress me this year by just looking at their scores.  They lost to Rowan by a TD, and they beat Salisbury by 3.  I think Ithaca can beat them.

And I'm not a big fan of Delaware either (or Wilmington anyway).  Quick random story for you.

I work in Law enforcement in the Boston area.  I guy who works for the City I work in gets a letter in the mail from the Wilmington, DE police department saying that he owes the City $210 for going though a red light in Wilmington, and there is a photo of a vehicle with Delaware plates driving through a red light.  The guy tells me that he has never been to Delaware, and that the car in the photo is obviously not his (I checked his story, it was legit).  So I call Wilmington PD to see if I can get to the bottom of this.  I leave about 7 messages, with 7 different people in the Wilmington PD with not one return phone call.  Complete BS.

So I call the Delaware RMV and get nowhere.  I ask them how this could even happen, and they tell me that the owner of the car (Delaware resident) signed a statement that this random person from Massachusetts was driving their car (obvious that they just went online and got a random name/address from whitepages.com).  I am then told that there is nothing to do about it except call the police department where the owner lives (not Wilmington but close), and have them follow up.  So I call that local department.  5 messages with 5 different people, no call back again.  Another useless police department.  I can't even believe that this could happen (that a police department can mail a citation to someone just because the owner said they were driving the car), but that is another story.

I then call the City of Wilmington's mayors office and city council members offices.  Nothing again, no call backs, nothing.

Finally I get in touch with the Head Clerk of the Superior Court of Delaware in New Castle County and talk to the nicest person you can imagine.  She gets the info, tells me that the ticket will be voided and the owner of the car investigated.  She then tells me of course that she is a huge Red Sox fan and went to Law School in Boston and how much she loved Boston.  Anyway, after a nice chat justice was served and my negative impression of Delaware was lifted a little.

Go Bombers

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feduncovered.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Fcool-story-bro.jpg&hash=b859d3dc26ee448d438c74744c21531516442b7c)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 27, 2013, 07:29:11 PM
Yea, I admit that was a pretty horrible story, but it really is the only thing I ever associate with Delaware. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 27, 2013, 07:31:01 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 27, 2013, 07:29:11 PM
Yea, I admit that was a pretty horrible story, but it really is the only thing I ever associate with Delaware.

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkgDUoYB085hPuqtNYe0yuV3pwstkZu2wlKWT-of0fb8eOaa6pKw)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2013, 08:34:23 AM
I have a random change of topic for us, but I love the playoffs this year. For years I have felt that the playoffs were fun, but also anticlimactic since we knew only one of two teams could/would win it all. I feel like this year the favorites are still there but this heart he gap has closed so much we don't know who will win the last game (or even be in it).

Just a lot more fun from where I sit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 29, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2013, 08:34:23 AM
I have a random change of topic for us, but I love the playoffs this year. For years I have felt that the playoffs were fun, but also anticlimactic since we knew only one of two teams could/would win it all. I feel like this year the favorites are still there but this heart he gap has closed so much we don't know who will win the last game (or even be in it).

Just a lot more fun from where I sit.

I totally agree. Uncertainty is what makes sports great. It's not that mount/whitewater won it every year, it was that it seemed inevitable
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 29, 2013, 10:02:52 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 29, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 29, 2013, 08:34:23 AM
I have a random change of topic for us, but I love the playoffs this year. For years I have felt that the playoffs were fun, but also anticlimactic since we knew only one of two teams could/would win it all. I feel like this year the favorites are still there but this heart he gap has closed so much we don't know who will win the last game (or even be in it).

Just a lot more fun from where I sit.

I totally agree. Uncertainty is what makes sports great. It's not that mount/whitewater won it every year, it was that it seemed inevitable

You also wonder about Kehres retiring from Mt. Union.  Not that his son can't or won't do the job, but all good things come to an end sometime. 

I have to admit though, I love Mt. Union and kind of like seeing then in the Stagg Bowl every year for some reason.  I find myself routing for them no matter who they play (except Ithaca).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I think UMHB takes it all this year...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: sjfcards on November 29, 2013, 10:20:59 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 29, 2013, 10:02:52 AM
You also wonder about Kehres retiring from Mt. Union.  Not that his son can't or won't do the job, but all good things come to an end sometime. 

I don't follow UMU religiously, but from what I have seen on these boards it seems like this team doesn't always have the focus as they have in years past. A lot of posts about the team not being totally dialed in. With Kehres Mount always seemed to have a laser sharp focus even when they were playing teams that had no business being on the field with them.

That is a huge compliment to a coaching staff and is very difficult to replicate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 11:13:40 AM
Actually UMHB had quite a three week stretch of dominance. 

63-7
80-0
65-10

All of those teams were below .500 but still that's impressive.  I just see a team like Linfield as a more serious threat to win it all. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 11:20:05 AM
Well all 3 members of the D3fb.com crew picked Fisher to win by less than a TD...

FA91 will be happy, I think it's the kiss of death so have fun in Texas Hobart!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 29, 2013, 11:58:06 AM
UMHB is going to ****ing steamroll the Profs. Dlip is hoping he is wrong...but for once he may actually be right. C'mon Rowan here is your chance to get your name back into the top 2 or 3 best in the east!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 29, 2013, 01:08:20 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

The way the last two weeks played out for Linfield wasn't nearly as impressive.  Granted, the opposition ramped up, but they weren't as crisp it seemed like.  Tomorrow will be interesting.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 29, 2013, 01:13:55 PM
Upstate
I was thinking the sme thing!
;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Knightstalker on November 29, 2013, 05:36:50 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 27, 2013, 07:29:11 PM
Yea, I admit that was a pretty horrible story, but it really is the only thing I ever associate with Delaware.

There used to be a really good go-go bar in Smyrna Delaware on Rt 13.  Good burgers, cheap beer and dancing girls.  Made a good pit stop on the way back to Norfolk from NJ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 29, 2013, 06:37:41 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 11:20:05 AM
Well all 3 members of the D3fb.com crew picked Fisher to win by less than a TD...

FA91 will be happy, I think it's the kiss of death so have fun in Texas Hobart!!!

Hobart fans are happy to be the "expert's" underdog. The High School teams we have been playing over the last 3 years were tougher than you think! I think a number of Hobart starters remember a 36 point win over Fisher  only 2 years ago or was that a pre-season game? A recent 7 point  playoff loss to #3 Wesley with a back up QB , a 14 point win against #14 Wittenberg last year must have been pretty lucky outings.  Hobart played one of the upper tier in 2012 at UST and got thumped, but didn't  Fisher lose in a similar fashion in 2011? I just hope Conlan, Coleman, Worthington and Webb can rise to the occasion and the honor of playing a team from the great E8. Seriously, good luck tomorrow to 2 great Eastern teams and may the winner come out injury free and steal a win in Texas!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: drt on November 29, 2013, 06:44:09 PM
That's some impressive sarcasm and believe me, I'm an expert. +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 06:50:18 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 29, 2013, 06:37:41 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 11:20:05 AM
Well all 3 members of the D3fb.com crew picked Fisher to win by less than a TD...

FA91 will be happy, I think it's the kiss of death so have fun in Texas Hobart!!!

Hobart fans are happy to be the "expert's" underdog. The High School teams we have been playing over the last 3 years were tougher than you think! I think a number of Hobart starters remember a 36 point win over Fisher  only 2 years ago or was that a pre-season game? A recent 7 point  playoff loss to #3 Wesley with a back up QB , a 14 point win against #14 Wittenberg last year must have been pretty lucky outings.  Hobart played one of the upper tier in 2012 at UST and got thumped, but didn't  Fisher lose in a similar fashion in 2011? I just hope Conlan, Coleman, Worthington and Webb can rise to the occasion and the honor of playing a team from the great E8. Seriously, good luck tomorrow to 2 great Eastern teams and may the winner come out injury free and steal a win in Texas!

You do know there are also players on your team that also remember getting monkey stomped by Fisher on your home field too, right?  Since you are referencing seasons past. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 29, 2013, 07:06:52 PM
Useless stat of the day:

2 of the top running backs in d3 were coached by Ithaca grads.

Steven Webb.  17th in the country in yards, coached by Sheldon Gibson at Dundee, NY HS.
Melikke Van Alstyne.  4th in the country in yards, coached by Scott Connley at Salem, Ma HS.

Lets try to get these boys to Ithaca next time!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 07:12:25 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 06:50:18 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 29, 2013, 06:37:41 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 11:20:05 AM
Well all 3 members of the D3fb.com crew picked Fisher to win by less than a TD...

FA91 will be happy, I think it's the kiss of death so have fun in Texas Hobart!!!

Hobart fans are happy to be the "expert's" underdog. The High School teams we have been playing over the last 3 years were tougher than you think! I think a number of Hobart starters remember a 36 point win over Fisher  only 2 years ago or was that a pre-season game? A recent 7 point  playoff loss to #3 Wesley with a back up QB , a 14 point win against #14 Wittenberg last year must have been pretty lucky outings.  Hobart played one of the upper tier in 2012 at UST and got thumped, but didn't  Fisher lose in a similar fashion in 2011? I just hope Conlan, Coleman, Worthington and Webb can rise to the occasion and the honor of playing a team from the great E8. Seriously, good luck tomorrow to 2 great Eastern teams and may the winner come out injury free and steal a win in Texas!

You do know there are also players on your team that also remember getting monkey stomped by Fisher on your home field too, right?  Since you are referencing seasons past.

Nope, 2010 never happened...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 07:15:15 PM
Actually I take that back.  I forgot Webb scored a touchdown in the later parts of the 4th quarter to put them down 20 instead of 27.  So it was a point shy of a true monkey stomp. 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pumkinattack on November 29, 2013, 07:42:11 PM
I remember beating fisher in 1997 to 2000...

Then I graduated, continued to act like I was in college for another decade, roped some poor nice girl into taking care of me til death do us part, continue to party in grad school, have a kid and live in three of the five biggest cities on the east coast and will wake up tomorrow to watch the only game that matters at this point .

Let's just do this.  This talk is just that.  We'd all get smoked by all these kids, like when I played in a college aged summer lacrosse league last summer, got my ankles broke regularly, broke a couple of ribs and generally embarrassed my family weekly. 

(P.s. It's a contact league and I did light up some kiddies in front of their girlfriends in that league which was a lot of fun)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 29, 2013, 07:42:11 PM
I remember beating fisher in 1997 to 2000...

Then I graduated, continued to act like I was in college for another decade, roped some poor nice girl into taking care of me til death do us part, continue to party in grad school, have a kid and live in three of the five biggest cities on the east coast and will wake up tomorrow to watch the only game that matters at this point .

Let's just do this.  This talk is just that.  We'd all get smoked by all these kids, like when I played in a college aged summer lacrosse league last summer, got my ankles broke regularly, broke a couple of ribs and generally embarrassed my family weekly. 

(P.s. It's a contact league and I did light up some kiddies in front of their girlfriends in that league which was a lot of fun)

You played with Newsome and Amodeo (I can't remember how to spell it) then?

Newsome and I went to rivaling high schools and I played against Amodeo in the Section 6 all star game.

Newsome played on the same squad as I did for that game but he was just a great natural athlete.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 29, 2013, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 07:15:15 PM
Actually I take that back.  I forgot Webb scored a touchdown in the later parts of the 4th quarter to put them down 20 instead of 27.  So it was a point shy of a true monkey stomp.
If 20 points was a monkey stomp in 2010( a  visiting Cardinal pecking may be more appropiate), I guess 36 points in Pittsford was an elephant stomp in 2011(actually a Statesman stomp sounds better)...and a more recent stomping. When Webb scores tomorrow in the 4th quarter the Cardinal dbacks will have a good view of either the top of his helmet when he runs over them or the bottom of his cleats when he runs away....Please excuse me, but I feel so much better after writing that....Here's to a well played game whether the monkeys or elephants get on the field 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 09:14:36 PM
There is official protocol for stomping terminology.  It's rather extensive actually.

Can't wait until the game tomorrow! 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 29, 2013, 10:43:20 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 09:14:36 PM
There is official protocol for stomping terminology.  It's rather extensive actually.

Can't wait until the game tomorrow!

Lol...Sorry for the second stringer ignorance...Taking the lead from the Mayor of Geneva(must have gotten the idea from the Governor of Ohio for _ichigan game), as Hobart supporters will be eliminating the letters S,J and F from all communications starting from now until the end of the game. Go Bart, beat aint ohn isher(  Latin for too many business ma_or_)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on November 30, 2013, 06:19:06 AM
MUC 38
WITT 20

UMHB 27
ROWAN 21

LINFIELD 58
NOT SURE WHO THEY ARE PLAYING 12

SJFF 37
HOBART 34

WESLEY 28
ITHACA 23

BETHEL 55
WARTBURG 10

UW-W 49
FRANKLIN 0

NORTH CENTRAL 41
PLATTEVILLE 28

...time to get ready for Geneva...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 06:24:14 AM
Just looking out for you my friend.  Some other time maybe I'll dig up a post that lays all the stomp definitions out there.  Some of them are pretty funny. 

Game day at long last!  It's been a fun week of back and forth with the Hobart posters.  It reminds me of the Fisher/Ithaca weeks from years past.  A fair degree of crap talking but also mixed in with some reverence towards the other team.  They're two good teams and today should be a fun game. 

Hobart faithful are hoping injuries won't slow them down.  Fisher supporters are hopeful our team doesn't commit those same stupid ass penalties that kill drives or turn in a dreadful turnover filled performance like in the Ithaca game.  To be fair to Ithaca they obviously had something to do with it, but Fisher has had times this year where they can't get out of their way and they are their own worst enemy.  Coach Vos is even quoted saying as much.  Including after the game in Ithaca I believe. 

Let's hope for the best!  Also, good luck against Wesley my dear Bomber friends.  Hopefully the East can take out a few more out of region programs before it's all said and done. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 30, 2013, 06:34:45 AM
Quote from: SJFF82 on November 30, 2013, 06:19:06 AM
MUC 38
WITT 20

UMHB 27
ROWAN 21

LINFIELD 58
NOT SURE WHO THEY ARE PLAYING 12

SJFF 37
HOBART 34

WESLEY 28
ITHACA 23

BETHEL 55
WARTBURG 10

UW-W 49
FRANKLIN 0

NORTH CENTRAL 41
PLATTEVILLE 28

...time to get ready for Geneva...

The Linfield score is hilarious!!!!! +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 30, 2013, 08:54:00 AM
game day.  good luck to Fisher, Hobart, and Ithaca today.  Should be a good one at Hobart, enjoy it if you go.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 30, 2013, 02:37:14 PM
Well, great season bombers, and a pretty great game today as well.  I think the better team won, but Ithaca had their chances.  Looks like IC has a lot of returning starters back, and if they can tweak that offense a little, I think they can be a little better nationally next year.

I like Wesley's jet sweep package.  This is a concept that Ithaca should put in.  Not a difficult concept to block or run, and IC has the speed and talent with the WRs to make that a potential threat.

And if the NFL and High School teams can pull guards, why can't Ithaca?  If you can't push the other team around, have some guys in there that can at least move and trap.

Good job Wesley too.  I think if they play mistake free, they have a shot against MUC.  I didn't see anything super special, but the QB seemed very poised.  Good luck next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 30, 2013, 02:50:42 PM
Congratulations to St. John Fisher. Good luck in Texas. The Statesmen never got started today, but thanks for another great season.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:14:24 PM
I already see some banter on Twitter concerning the E8 vs. the LL.  Here's what I think we learned today:

1) Both winners of the respective conferences lost today.  Ithaca never really got their offense rolling -- the 7 points they had until desperation time was from a 91yd kickoff return.  Wesley dominated -- a Wesley team that had two losses and seemed inconsistent at times this season.  Despite the score differentials ending up somewhat differently, neither Ithaca nor Hobart really felt in control of their respective games.

2) The only team left is the team that has gone out consistently and scheduled the strongest.  Fisher basically learned how to beat good opponents and win close games, even from behind.  This is where Hobart had issues with only nine games and Utica being their spotlight OOC game.  I actually ranted about this in the preseason show on "In the HuddLLe" -- I think it comes back to haunt Hobart once Fisher got a lot of good bounces and capitalized for a 14-0 lead.  Hobart began to get desperate and could never establish their game again.

3) The effect on LL vs. E8 perceptions is pretty much what we assumed in the first place.  It's the second-place team of the E8 making strides, and I think we can point to the reasons that team consistently does so since the early 2000s.  It's why the E8 ranks above the LL in the conference rankings each year and each re-ranking.  That said, Ithaca's struggles vs. Framingham and inability to really get things going offensively at Wesley and Salisbury's odd struggles sort of lead us to a position in which you could argue relative strength at the end of this year in either direction, with an obvious bias toward the E8 with SJF still standing.  If SJF beats UMHB, then I'd reassess, but we pretty much end up this year where we thought we were in he first place.

The upcoming game between SJF and UMHB sort of lines up much like the Hobart/St. Thomas game last year.  As such, I think SJF comes in about a 24-point underdog.  Anything can happen, but the weather in Belton will most likely be decent -- and that plays to UMHB's benefit.  Great seasons Ithaca and Hobart, and good luck to SJF.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)

Maybe they should hand you a microphone next time?  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)

Maybe they should hand you a microphone next time?  ???

Don't know what that has to do with anything but idk how anyone could support those kinds of comments, basically suggesting that Hobart should start a fist fight because of passing the ball up 24-0 in a playoff game. Btw, I was rooting for Hobart.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)

Maybe they should hand you a microphone next time?  ???

Don't know what that has to do with anything but idk how anyone could support those kinds of comments, basically suggesting that Hobart should start a fist fight because of passing the ball up 24-0 in a playoff game. Btw, I was rooting for Hobart.

That's not what Ted and Terry stated, and you know it.  Ted is one of our classiest announcers, and Terry was suggesting that the play calling, if perceived to be an attempt to run up the score or embarrass a team, could lead to violent emotions from the other team.  At that point, we had seen a lot of action after whistles already.  Stating that it could happen is MUCH different that suggesting they start a fight.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 30, 2013, 03:47:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:14:24 PM
I already see some banter on Twitter concerning the E8 vs. the LL.  Here's what I think we learned today:

1) Both winners of the respective conferences lost today.  Ithaca never really got their offense rolling -- the 7 points they had until desperation time was from a 91yd kickoff return.  Wesley dominated -- a Wesley team that had two losses and seemed inconsistent at times this season.  Despite the score differentials ending up somewhat differently, neither Ithaca nor Hobart really felt in control of their respective games.

2) The only team left is the team that has gone out consistently and scheduled the strongest.  Fisher basically learned how to beat good opponents and win close games, even from behind.  This is where Hobart had issues with only nine games and Utica being their spotlight OOC game.  I actually ranted about this in the preseason show on "In the HuddLLe" -- I think it comes back to haunt Hobart once Fisher got a lot of good bounces and capitalized for a 14-0 lead.  Hobart began to get desperate and could never establish their game again.

3) The effect on LL vs. E8 perceptions is pretty much what we assumed in the first place.  It's the second-place team of the E8 making strides, and I think we can point to the reasons that team consistently does so since the early 2000s.  It's why the E8 ranks above the LL in the conference rankings each year and each re-ranking.  That said, Ithaca's struggles vs. Framingham and inability to really get things going offensively at Wesley and Salisbury's odd struggles sort of lead us to a position in which you could argue relative strength at the end of this year in either direction, with an obvious bias toward the E8 with SJF still standing.  If SJF beats UMHB, then I'd reassess, but we pretty much end up this year where we thought we were in he first place.

The upcoming game between SJF and UMHB sort of lines up much like the Hobart/St. Thomas game last year.  As such, I think SJF comes in about a 24-point underdog.  Anything can happen, but the weather in Belton will most likely be decent -- and that plays to UMHB's benefit.  Great seasons Ithaca and Hobart, and good luck to SJF.

Frank did you really assume at the beginning of the year that SJF would be the 2nd best team in the E8?  They were one play away from being the 4th place team.

Hey, I think they are the best team in the E8.  Not because of their schedule though, but because they have the best players, and their coaches do a fantastic job.

You and I know that until the LL schools start to give financial aid like they did 5,10,15 years ago, the E8 is going to be a better conference for about 20 other reasons that you didn't list above.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 30, 2013, 03:47:59 PM
Frank did you really assume at the beginning of the year that SJF would be the 2nd best team in the E8?  They were one play away from being the 4th place team.

My preseason ballot suggested, yes, they should've finished second to Salisbury.  That said, both were ranked by me.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 03:14:24 PM
I already see some banter on Twitter concerning the E8 vs. the LL.  Here's what I think we learned today:

1) Both winners of the respective conferences lost today.  Ithaca never really got their offense rolling -- the 7 points they had until desperation time was from a 91yd kickoff return.  Wesley dominated -- a Wesley team that had two losses and seemed inconsistent at times this season.  Despite the score differentials ending up somewhat differently, neither Ithaca nor Hobart really felt in control of their respective games.

2) The only team left is the team that has gone out consistently and scheduled the strongest.  Fisher basically learned how to beat good opponents and win close games, even from behind.  This is where Hobart had issues with only nine games and Utica being their spotlight OOC game.  I actually ranted about this in the preseason show on "In the HuddLLe" -- I think it comes back to haunt Hobart once Fisher got a lot of good bounces and capitalized for a 14-0 lead.  Hobart began to get desperate and could never establish their game again.

3) The effect on LL vs. E8 perceptions is pretty much what we assumed in the first place.  It's the second-place team of the E8 making strides, and I think we can point to the reasons that team consistently does so since the early 2000s.  It's why the E8 ranks above the LL in the conference rankings each year and each re-ranking.  That said, Ithaca's struggles vs. Framingham and inability to really get things going offensively at Wesley and Salisbury's odd struggles sort of lead us to a position in which you could argue relative strength at the end of this year in either direction, with an obvious bias toward the E8 with SJF still standing.  If SJF beats UMHB, then I'd reassess, but we pretty much end up this year where we thought we were in he first place.

The upcoming game between SJF and UMHB sort of lines up much like the Hobart/St. Thomas game last year.  As such, I think SJF comes in about a 24-point underdog.  Anything can happen, but the weather in Belton will most likely be decent -- and that plays to UMHB's benefit.  Great seasons Ithaca and Hobart, and good luck to SJF.

Frank, I think the discussion can be simplified beyond your arguments.  Most of us maintained that if Hobart were in the E8 it would be extremely extremely unlikely that they end the regular season undefeated.  I'd say after today it's hard to argue that when Fisher, who lost twice (albeit by a combined 10 points), was able to go into Geneva and shut them down.  Hobart would obviously be in the mix at the top of the conference before people start jumping down my throat.  But I wouldn't be surprised if they finished with 2 or 3 losses either.  The fact that they ran roughshod through the LL and by most accounts pulled their starters in the 4th quarter of every LL game demonstrates to me that it is a clear level below the E8.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 30, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)

Were they really calling out Fisher's OOC schedule?

Sorry Hobart, we all saw what happens when you actually schedule legit OOC teams from different conferences and regions.

Wesley is always looking for D3 teams to play, i do believe you chickened out of a game with them a few years ago and you hardly schedule 10 games so go cry somewhere else about scheduling.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 30, 2013, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 30, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)

Were they really calling out Fisher's OOC schedule?

Sorry Hobart, we all saw what happens when you actually schedule legit OOC teams from different conferences and regions.

Wesley is always looking for D3 teams to play, i do believe you chickened out of a game with them a few years ago and you hardly schedule 10 games so go cry somewhere else about scheduling.

If you have an eight game or nine game schedule and are looking for opponent, don't complain that you can't find an opponent, because Wesley will play anyone anywhere, they might even play on some of those large Navy carriers, if asked.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 06:15:06 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on November 30, 2013, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 30, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
Quote from: MasterJedi on November 30, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
There was even the Hobart announcers getting into it during the game. Basically saying Fisher was scared to schedule Hobart during the season, unsportsmanlike to throw the ball up 24-0 in the fourth and expecting a fist fight to break about because they were doing it. Classy.  ::)

Were they really calling out Fisher's OOC schedule?

Sorry Hobart, we all saw what happens when you actually schedule legit OOC teams from different conferences and regions.

Wesley is always looking for D3 teams to play, i do believe you chickened out of a game with them a few years ago and you hardly schedule 10 games so go cry somewhere else about scheduling.

If you have an eight game or nine game schedule and are looking for opponent, don't complain that you can't find an opponent, because Wesley will play anyone anywhere, they might even play on some of those large Navy carriers, if asked.

That wouldn't work... The egos of E8 posters and Wesley posters wouldn't fit in such a confined space  ;)

[EDIT: For the love of karma, this was a joke.  Aside from defending Ted Baker and Terry Muffley, I'm really not getting bent out of shape by today's happenings because it wasn't outside the realm and I'd be kidding myself if I suggested my views throughout the preseason and season weren't ultimately proven somewhat right concerning scheduling, the passing game questions of Hobart, and SJF's relative strength.  I'm a Liberty League guy, but I'm also a realist -- see earlier comments I made re: Linfield's question marks as the season ended and postseason began leading to an interesting scenario today.  After 19 years of this ish, you learn to take it all in stride, except for defamatory statements and unnecessary shots.  That's never appreciated by me.]
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 06:26:49 PM
Good call with Linfield.  I thought of you specifically when I saw the halftime score. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 06:26:49 PM
Good call with Linfield.  I thought of you specifically when I saw the halftime score.

Thanks.  I think we all knew at halftime that Linfield would make good adjustments -- it was just a question of whether or not HSC could shrink the game and make the time run out before Linfield could execute the comeback fully.  A couple bad gambles by HSC gave Linfield too much momentum.  That said, I think Linfield was exposed a bit more today early.  We were that close to what I believe would've been the first time in history that three or more two-loss teams (or worse) made it to the D3 Quarterfinals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: umhb2001 on November 30, 2013, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

How bout now?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 30, 2013, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

How bout now?

You must not have seen my post that followed that when I referenced an ultra impressive stretch by MHB.  I think you misinterpreted that post as me thinking Rowan would pull off the upset.  I didn't think that at all.  I was interested in the sense of - will they blow them out 80-0 like some of the teams this year or will it be in the 2 or 3 touchdown margin.  I thought it would be about a 3 touchdown margin.  So I guess I was wrong there.  Oh well. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 30, 2013, 06:54:48 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 06:47:42 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on November 30, 2013, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 29, 2013, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 29, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
I think UMHB takes it all this year...

I was looking at UMHB's results this year and really they didn't blow me away.  I'm very interested to see the final score in their matchup against Rowan.  Now a team like Linfield on the other hand?  They are steamrolling teams like it is nobody's business.

How bout now?

You must not have seen my post that followed that when I referenced an ultra impressive stretch by MHB.  I think you misinterpreted that post as me thinking Rowan would pull off the upset.  I didn't think that at all.  I was interested in the sense of - will they blow them out 80-0 like some of the teams this year or will it be in the 2 or 3 touchdown margin.  I thought it would be about a 3 touchdown margin.  So I guess I was wrong there.  Oh well.

He may have also been referencing Linfield only beating HSC in a comeback win, 31-21.  (They were down 21-3, but obviously figured out some flaws in a team expected to have MANY flaws.)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 30, 2013, 07:13:14 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 30, 2013, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 30, 2013, 06:26:49 PM
Good call with Linfield.  I thought of you specifically when I saw the halftime score.

Thanks.  I think we all knew at halftime that Linfield would make good adjustments -- it was just a question of whether or not HSC could shrink the game and make the time run out before Linfield could execute the comeback fully.  A couple bad gambles by HSC gave Linfield too much momentum.  That said, I think Linfield was exposed a bit more today early.  We were that close to what I believe would've been the first time in history that three or more two-loss teams (or worse) made it to the D3 Quarterfinals.

Good call on Hobarts passing game too, although they may have faced the best pass defense in the country today, if you look at the past two weeks anyway.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 03, 2013, 01:32:19 PM
LD... Listen to the first 45 minutes of "In the HuddLLe" from this week.  We debate this very issue with Ted Baker, using a piece of an interview with Coach Vosburgh from 2010 that points to your own points here.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on December 03, 2013, 01:48:42 PM
Was just going through Bart's schedule can someone tell me what I'm missing about Hobart and Dickinson?

Is this some 100 year old rivalry or something?

Also still think it's funny that Hobart pulled out of a game with Wesley in 2011 only to be matched up with them in the first round!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on December 03, 2013, 02:12:43 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games.

St. Lawrence was 2 plays away from being 9-1 (with a softer OCC than SJF).  Can we say for certain that SJF would have gotten a bid over St. Lawrence?

I'm playing devils advocate here, as I have always thought a tougher schedule is better for your team.  But the NCAA has done strange things, although I will admit those strange things seem to diminish each year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on December 03, 2013, 02:37:06 PM
Even if SLU was 9-1 they would have had a significantly weaker SOS compared to SJF and two LL teams haven't made the tourney in several years.  My guess is Fisher, even at 8-2 could have edged them out (especially since we now know prior year playoff data is factored in).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2013, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games.

This seems a little like after the fact cherry picking to me. It worked for this particular Fisher team, with this particular season and its assortment specific teams vying for Pool Cs, and against these specific playoff opponents. Whether or not it's a replicable long-term strategy would require more than a sample size of one. What's the track record of 8-2 teams getting Pool C bids over 9-1 teams with weaker SOS'? If Pool C shrinks, who's the committee more likely to squeeze out?

I was one of the people who was suggesting a 9-1 season with a weaker OOC was a more likely path to the playoffs than 8-2 season with a strong one. This was based on the constant talk of a shrinking Pool C and the dearth of two-loss teams getting at large bids. Heck, until Alfred-Fisher turned into a defacto playoff game, everyone around here seemed consigned to Fisher in the ECACs.

I also don't understand your last point. Are you suggesting that Fisher would have a better view of its season if it had gone to the ECACs than Hobart has of making the second round of the NCAAs?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on December 03, 2013, 02:49:55 PM
Re:  St. Lawrence vs. St. John Fisher - St. Lawrence would schedule High School teams if it got them to the dance.  I think Fisher's program is a different animal.  This discussion is not ALL teams.  But programs that are legit and want to actually take that next step and not get greased in by default, this is for them.  Hobart is an elite program and should schedule like it.  Look at Wesley's schedule each year.  I know they are Independent, but they make a solid schedule. 

To Bombers, i'm saying a program like St. John Fisher, if they lost to W&J or Cortland, wouldn't feel slighted by the system, or upset at their scheduling.  They probably would've felt like they didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on December 03, 2013, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2013, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games.

This seems a little like after the fact cherry picking to me. It worked for this particular Fisher team, with this particular season and its assortment specific teams vying for Pool Cs, and against these specific playoff opponents. Whether or not it's a replicable long-term strategy would require more than a sample size of one. What's the track record of 8-2 teams getting Pool C bids over 9-1 teams with weaker SOS'? If Pool C shrinks, who's the committee more likely to squeeze out?

I was one of the people who was suggesting a 9-1 season with a weaker OOC was a more likely path to the playoffs than 8-2 season with a strong one. This was based on the constant talk of a shrinking Pool C and the dearth of two-loss teams getting at large bids. Heck, until Alfred-Fisher turned into a defacto playoff game, everyone around here seemed consigned to Fisher in the ECACs.

I also don't understand your last point. Are you suggesting that Fisher would have a better view of its season if it had gone to the ECACs than Hobart has of making the second round of the NCAAs?

Didn't Pat speak to this earlier?  How it has been happening in recent times.  St. John Fisher in 2011 who won a couple of games, Pac Lutheran and Louisiana College last year, St. John Fisher again this year.  It's been happening.  Fisher was in all likelihood the last team selected this year, so I guess if the pool C bids shrunk again like they will in the future then they would have been toast.  I think that Fisher is doing everyone else in the country a solid though by what they've done the past couple of postseasons as a two loss at large. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 03, 2013, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2013, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games.

This seems a little like after the fact cherry picking to me. It worked for this particular Fisher team, with this particular season and its assortment specific teams vying for Pool Cs, and against these specific playoff opponents. Whether or not it's a replicable long-term strategy would require more than a sample size of one. What's the track record of 8-2 teams getting Pool C bids over 9-1 teams with weaker SOS'? If Pool C shrinks, who's the committee more likely to squeeze out?

I was one of the people who was suggesting a 9-1 season with a weaker OOC was a more likely path to the playoffs than 8-2 season with a strong one. This was based on the constant talk of a shrinking Pool C and the dearth of two-loss teams getting at large bids. Heck, until Alfred-Fisher turned into a defacto playoff game, everyone around here seemed consigned to Fisher in the ECACs.

I also don't understand your last point. Are you suggesting that Fisher would have a better view of its season if it had gone to the ECACs than Hobart has of making the second round of the NCAAs?

Didn't Pat speak to this earlier?  How it has been happening in recent times.  St. John Fisher in 2011 who won a couple of games, Pac Lutheran and Louisiana College last year, St. John Fisher again this year.  It's been happening.  Fisher was in all likelihood the last team selected this year, so I guess if the pool C bids shrunk again like they will in the future then they would have been toast.  I think that Fisher is doing everyone else in the country a solid though by what they've done the past couple of postseasons as a two loss at large.
When the current shifts in alignments finally settle down in 2015, I think that we end up with 26 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids and 6 Pool C bids.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 03, 2013, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on December 03, 2013, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 03, 2013, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games.

This seems a little like after the fact cherry picking to me. It worked for this particular Fisher team, with this particular season and its assortment specific teams vying for Pool Cs, and against these specific playoff opponents. Whether or not it's a replicable long-term strategy would require more than a sample size of one. What's the track record of 8-2 teams getting Pool C bids over 9-1 teams with weaker SOS'? If Pool C shrinks, who's the committee more likely to squeeze out?

I was one of the people who was suggesting a 9-1 season with a weaker OOC was a more likely path to the playoffs than 8-2 season with a strong one. This was based on the constant talk of a shrinking Pool C and the dearth of two-loss teams getting at large bids. Heck, until Alfred-Fisher turned into a defacto playoff game, everyone around here seemed consigned to Fisher in the ECACs.

I also don't understand your last point. Are you suggesting that Fisher would have a better view of its season if it had gone to the ECACs than Hobart has of making the second round of the NCAAs?

Didn't Pat speak to this earlier?  How it has been happening in recent times.  St. John Fisher in 2011 who won a couple of games, Pac Lutheran and Louisiana College last year, St. John Fisher again this year.  It's been happening.  Fisher was in all likelihood the last team selected this year, so I guess if the pool C bids shrunk again like they will in the future then they would have been toast.  I think that Fisher is doing everyone else in the country a solid though by what they've done the past couple of postseasons as a two loss at large.
When the current shifts in alignments finally settle down in 2015, I think that we end up with 26 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids and 6 Pool C bids.



When does Salisbury St  and Frostburg St contract end with the E8?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: SJFF82 on December 03, 2013, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on December 03, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
I remember getting some **** at the beginning of the year by complimenting St. John Fisher's scheduling, and saying that it would make them more battle ready for the playoffs.  A lot of people jumped down my throat saying it was dumb and smarter to just schedule weak opponents, win your conference or get in at 9-1 in a Pool C.  So now we have a little time to break this down, how do we all feel about it now???

Fisher didn't win their conference.  Lost 2 in conference games, but their schedule got them a bid, and they hit the playoffs running knowing that they could compete with very good teams.  Hobart had a weak non-conference schedule(which so many people think is the best move), went undefeated, and knew they were in trouble heading into Fisher.  Injury related or not, Hobart would have had a tough time last week.

I also feel strongly that if Fisher didn't get selected, they would have understood, but also would've known they could have done some damage in the playoffs regardless.  Earlier, everyone said it's all about 'just making the playoffs', but do those people feel the same way now?  Hobart likely feels that their undefeated regular season is now a disappointment, because they beat a sub-mediocre opponent in round 1, and got smoked by an in-region rival in round 2.  Fisher on the other hand would have felt like they had a good season if they weren't selected and played an ECAC game, feeling like they were one bad conference game away(1 they SHOULD have won) from getting to the dance.

More than ever, I stand by my thoughts from earlier in the year.  If Fisher lost to Cortland or W&J and then lost 2 conference games, there would be no gripes either.  Tough but beatable opponents are the way to go with at LEAST 1 or 2 OOC games.

Great points
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on December 03, 2013, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on December 03, 2013, 07:40:35 PM
When does Salisbury St  and Frostburg St contract end with the E8?

Pep was under the impression that it was an indefinite association...that would likely end when there were enough D3 football-playing schools in the Capital Athletic Conference to earn an AQ. Don't know whether that has materialized or is even a possibility now.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 02:00:39 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
When the current shifts in alignments finally settle down in 2015, I think that we end up with 26 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids and 6 Pool C bids.

I don't believe that's correct.  While the SAA and MASCAC leave Pool B by 2015, they leave 10 approved teams in Pool B.  The ratio would still support a factor 9 -- meaning 9 Pool B teams would be enough for 1 bid in 2015.  Addition of teams like Alfred St. would protect that.  It should be 26/1/5, with the future of the SCAC, UAA and CAC perhaps creating the 27th and 28th Pool A bids later in the decade.  At that point, we'd be at 0 Pool B unless more teams add football (not outside the range of possibilities).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2013, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 02:00:39 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
When the current shifts in alignments finally settle down in 2015, I think that we end up with 26 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids and 6 Pool C bids.

I don't believe that's correct.  While the SAA and MASCAC leave Pool B by 2015, they leave 10 approved teams in Pool B.  The ratio would still support a factor 9 -- meaning 9 Pool B teams would be enough for 1 bid in 2015.  Addition of teams like Alfred St. would protect that.  It should be 26/1/5, with the future of the SCAC, UAA and CAC perhaps creating the 27th and 28th Pool A bids later in the decade.  At that point, we'd be at 0 Pool B unless more teams add football (not outside the range of possibilities).

I don't think - repeat: think - that the UAA will factor into this.  We'll see how sustainable the proposed arrangement is but my understanding is that CWRU/CMU will have AQ access through their affiliation with the PAC and WashU/Chicago will have the same with the SAA, so the four UAA schools will be affiliated with conferences that already have an AQ.  Perhaps I'm wrong about this, though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on December 04, 2013, 08:52:02 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2013, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 02:00:39 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
When the current shifts in alignments finally settle down in 2015, I think that we end up with 26 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids and 6 Pool C bids.

I don't believe that's correct.  While the SAA and MASCAC leave Pool B by 2015, they leave 10 approved teams in Pool B.  The ratio would still support a factor 9 -- meaning 9 Pool B teams would be enough for 1 bid in 2015.  Addition of teams like Alfred St. would protect that.  It should be 26/1/5, with the future of the SCAC, UAA and CAC perhaps creating the 27th and 28th Pool A bids later in the decade.  At that point, we'd be at 0 Pool B unless more teams add football (not outside the range of possibilities).

I don't think - repeat: think - that the UAA will factor into this.  We'll see how sustainable the proposed arrangement is but my understanding is that CWRU/CMU will have AQ access through their affiliation with the PAC and WashU/Chicago will have the same with the SAA, so the four UAA schools will be affiliated with conferences that already have an AQ.  Perhaps I'm wrong about this, though.

You are correct ExTP. The UAA schools will no longer be a factor. You will have the SCAC schools, Wesley, Macalaster, and maybe one or two more just off provisional status schools as of 2015 unless another realignment happens. So somewhere between 6 and 8 schools given a status quo. Probably not enough for a Pool B at less than 8, 8 schools would be a toss-up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2013, 08:54:05 AM
Quote from: jknezek on December 04, 2013, 08:52:02 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2013, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 02:00:39 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
When the current shifts in alignments finally settle down in 2015, I think that we end up with 26 Pool A bids, 0 Pool B bids and 6 Pool C bids.

I don't believe that's correct.  While the SAA and MASCAC leave Pool B by 2015, they leave 10 approved teams in Pool B.  The ratio would still support a factor 9 -- meaning 9 Pool B teams would be enough for 1 bid in 2015.  Addition of teams like Alfred St. would protect that.  It should be 26/1/5, with the future of the SCAC, UAA and CAC perhaps creating the 27th and 28th Pool A bids later in the decade.  At that point, we'd be at 0 Pool B unless more teams add football (not outside the range of possibilities).

I don't think - repeat: think - that the UAA will factor into this.  We'll see how sustainable the proposed arrangement is but my understanding is that CWRU/CMU will have AQ access through their affiliation with the PAC and WashU/Chicago will have the same with the SAA, so the four UAA schools will be affiliated with conferences that already have an AQ.  Perhaps I'm wrong about this, though.

You are correct ExTP. The UAA schools will no longer be a factor. You will have the SCAC schools, Wesley, Macalaster, and maybe one or two more just off provisional status schools as of 2015 unless another realignment happens. So somewhere between 6 and 8 schools given a status quo. Probably not enough for a Pool B at less than 8, 8 schools would be a toss-up.

Should have been more clear - I don't mean that the UAA will be out of Pool B, I mean that it also will have no affect on a changing number of Pool A's (Frank seemed to hint that perhaps the UAA schools could potentially be moving parts in some other arrangement that might account for an extra Pool A in the future, which is not outside the realm of possibility, but I hope the proposed affiliations hold up).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 09:18:30 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on December 04, 2013, 08:54:05 AM
Should have been more clear - I don't mean that the UAA will be out of Pool B, I mean that it also will have no affect on a changing number of Pool A's (Frank seemed to hint that perhaps the UAA schools could potentially be moving parts in some other arrangement that might account for an extra Pool A in the future, which is not outside the realm of possibility, but I hope the proposed affiliations hold up).

Right, and I'm just suggesting that there are enough overall moving parts that perhaps we could move up to 28 Pool As by the end of the decade.

Also, in doing the math using the current Pre-Championship Manual, I'm thinking Pool B's number would actually remain at 8 needed teams per bid:

245 Teams - (10 NESCAC + 6 Currently Recognized Pool Bs That Won't Be 2015 Affiliated) = 229 / 26 Pool A Bids = 8.81

Dropping the decimal, that means 8 would be the key figure.  If the NCAA is still counting Nebraska Wesleyan at that point, I think we reach 8 pretty easily for 1 Pool B bid.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2013, 09:31:08 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan has to file for the NCAA championship in order to do so. I am not aware they have done so for football. They have stopped doing so for basketball, it sounds like.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 11:22:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2013, 09:31:08 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan has to file for the NCAA championship in order to do so. I am not aware they have done so for football. They have stopped doing so for basketball, it sounds like.

They were listed this year in the Pre-Championship Manual.  Thus, I'm not sure when they won't be counted.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on December 04, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
Don't forget about the ASC shrinking to six teams as well.  I know they've got two years of scramble time to find a seventh member, but there's a possible influx of teams into Pool B coming in a couple of years (2016 maybe?). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on December 04, 2013, 02:35:33 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 04, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
Don't forget about the ASC shrinking to six teams as well.  I know they've got two years of scramble time to find a seventh member, but there's a possible influx of teams into Pool B coming in a couple of years (2016 maybe?).

that would make for an interesting scenerio, UMHB and Wesley both in pool b.  may change the pool B never getting a C bid if that would occur.  if there are no designated B's, then they are in the pool C group, correct?  Hoping that the CAC does turn into a football conference, but still has some work to do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: umhb2001 on December 04, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 04, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
Don't forget about the ASC shrinking to six teams as well.  I know they've got two years of scramble time to find a seventh member, but there's a possible influx of teams into Pool B coming in a couple of years (2016 maybe?).

Taking my seat Saturday at Crusader Stadium, I looked up a row and saw a man sitting with a Wabash jacket on. He and his wive live in Irvine, Texas, he having attending Wabash. It was a good time to talk to him as he knew quite a bit of D3 and loved watching the games. It was his first time to Belton to see a game; I hope he returns. Left a good impression of Wabash on me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on December 04, 2013, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on December 04, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 04, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
Don't forget about the ASC shrinking to six teams as well.  I know they've got two years of scramble time to find a seventh member, but there's a possible influx of teams into Pool B coming in a couple of years (2016 maybe?).

Taking my seat Saturday at Crusader Stadium, I looked up a row and saw a man sitting with a Wabash jacket on. He and his wive live in Irvine, Texas, he having attending Wabash. It was a good time to talk to him as he knew quite a bit of D3 and loved watching the games. It was his first time to Belton to see a game; I hope he returns. Left a good impression of Wabash on me.

Pep always enjoys talking D3 football whenever he's away from Mayberry. Getting off occasionally for good behavior makes Pep's serving a life sentence in Alfred a bit more tolerable. Pep always tries to wear his Alfred gear when at such places as Cedar Point, etc. and thoroughly enjoys finding another D3 team represented.

Now to get to the meat of the matter, does UMHB have a marching band, a pep band or canned music in the CRUthedral?

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 04, 2013, 11:22:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2013, 09:31:08 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan has to file for the NCAA championship in order to do so. I am not aware they have done so for football. They have stopped doing so for basketball, it sounds like.

They were listed this year in the Pre-Championship Manual.  Thus, I'm not sure when they won't be counted.

And the pre-championship manual never has mistakes in it, so that's good. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Toby Taff on December 04, 2013, 11:19:57 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on December 04, 2013, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: umhb2001 on December 04, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 04, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
Don't forget about the ASC shrinking to six teams as well.  I know they've got two years of scramble time to find a seventh member, but there's a possible influx of teams into Pool B coming in a couple of years (2016 maybe?).

Taking my seat Saturday at Crusader Stadium, I looked up a row and saw a man sitting with a Wabash jacket on. He and his wive live in Irvine, Texas, he having attending Wabash. It was a good time to talk to him as he knew quite a bit of D3 and loved watching the games. It was his first time to Belton to see a game; I hope he returns. Left a good impression of Wabash on me.

Pep always enjoys talking D3 football whenever he's away from Mayberry. Getting off occasionally for good behavior makes Pep's serving a life sentence in Alfred a bit more tolerable. Pep always tries to wear his Alfred gear when at such places as Cedar Point, etc. and thoroughly enjoys finding another D3 team represented.

Now to get to the meat of the matter, does UMHB have a marching band, a pep band or canned music in the CRUthedral?

On Saxon Warriors!
UMHB has a small band that takes the field like a marching band. As for music ant the CRUthedral, it is both live and canned
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2013, 12:24:29 PM
This Just In:

The preliminary reports of the demise of Mount Union Football in 2013 appear to be inaccurate.  Film at 11...

(On SportsTime Ohio)  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2013, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 07, 2013, 12:24:29 PM
This Just In:

The preliminary reports of the demise of Mount Union Football in 2013 appear to be inaccurate.  Film at 11...

(On SportsTime Ohio)  ;)

This Just In:

The preliminary reports of the demise of Wesley Football in 2013 appear to be inaccurate.  Film at 11...

(On SportsTime Ohio)  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on December 07, 2013, 03:35:43 PM
Wow unbelievable comeback by Wesley, almost all the way. I guess Mount Union pass defense is vulnerable....you think? Now if only Fisher can catch some of the Wesley magic....yes, interception....and they have the wind in the 4th quarter...hmmmm
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 03, 2014, 11:29:03 AM
So eventhough there really aren't regions, we're going to get an East Region initial ranking Weds.

Is Wesley on it or not? If not, who's #1?

Hobart? Based on "body of work" they seem like a good possibility. Knock is no wins over RRO (doubting Endicott will make Top 10) and very low SoS (167).

DelVal has same record as HOB and best RRO win (over Montclair) and a good SoS.

Widener is also 8-0 but may not have a RRO win since Rowan has fallen off.

My guess of potential top 10 will be

Hobart
DVC
Widener
MIT
Montclair
Fisher
SLU
Fram St
Mo State
Husson
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 03, 2014, 11:46:21 AM
Wesley is a South region team. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 03, 2014, 01:03:22 PM
I believe that the so called East Region should be headed by Wesley and they will be part of the NJAC next year. Wesley is in the South and Salisbury is in the East. Semantics? The balance will be :

South - UMHB
North - MTU
West - UWW

Barring any hick-ups in the last (2) weeks above is my belief of what we will see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 03, 2014, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?

Yes.  Results vs. Non-division opponents are low-end secondary criteria that, if used, would normally be outweighed by their SOS. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 04, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?

It would be a first if Wesley actually got a #1 seed vs UMHB without a major shift and allowing Wesley to be seeded in the East.  I would love to see it, but.......

Now if they lose to Charlotte, who knows.  It technically shouldn't matter, but you can never tell for sure how much a loss like that weighs in the minds of the committee....

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 04, 2014, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 04, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?

It would be a first if Wesley actually got a #1 seed vs UMHB without a major shift and allowing Wesley to be seeded in the East.  I would love to see it, but.......

Now if they lose to Charlotte, who knows.  It technically shouldn't matter, but you can never tell for sure how much a loss like that weighs in the minds of the committee....

-Ski

I think the committee is going to mixed it up this year, you may see a good west team make a cross country trip back South/East whatever again. Ski, you think Wesley would mind?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 04, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 04, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?

It would be a first if Wesley actually got a #1 seed vs UMHB without a major shift and allowing Wesley to be seeded in the East.  I would love to see it, but.......

Now if they lose to Charlotte, who knows.  It technically shouldn't matter, but you can never tell for sure how much a loss like that weighs in the minds of the committee....

-Ski

THERE IS NO EAST REGION IN THE BRACKET. 

Wesley doesn't get a #1 seed in the tournament because they keep doing dumb things like losing to Kean and Rowan. 

This year, I think Wesley is in line to get a #1 seed, play three home games and then probably travel to either UWW or UMU for a semifinal if the top seeds hold serve through the first three rounds. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 04, 2014, 11:06:19 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 04, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 04, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?

It would be a first if Wesley actually got a #1 seed vs UMHB without a major shift and allowing Wesley to be seeded in the East.  I would love to see it, but.......

Now if they lose to Charlotte, who knows.  It technically shouldn't matter, but you can never tell for sure how much a loss like that weighs in the minds of the committee....

-Ski

THERE IS NO EAST REGION IN THE BRACKET.  Wesley doesn't get a #1 seed in the tournament because they keep doing dumb things like losing to Kean and Rowan. 

This year, I think Wesley is in line to get a #1 seed, play three home games and then probably travel to either UWW or UMU for a semifinal if the top seeds hold serve through the first three rounds.

How about EST Bracket.  JK  ;D, many of us know that, it is more on where it is perceived to have the most East RR teams included. As you aforementioned, unless other factors occur between the next two weeks and first three weeks of playoffs, it is more than likely that that is how the playoffs are going to turn out, however like many fans of other teams, they hope things change, maybe your guys can stir some things up in the playoffs, they have been looking good so far.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 04, 2014, 11:24:19 AM
That is right. While HOB or DVC or WID will get a #1 in the initial east regional rankings, none of them will be a #1 seed. Wesley will probably be #2 in the south region rankings, but they are a likely #1 bracket seed come NCAA playoff time.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 04, 2014, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 04, 2014, 11:06:19 AM
How about EST Bracket.  JK  ;D, many of us know that, it is more on where it is perceived to have the most East RR teams included. As you aforementioned, unless other factors occur between the next two weeks and first three weeks of playoffs, it is more than likely that that is how the playoffs are going to turn out, however like many fans of other teams, they hope things change, maybe your guys can stir some things up in the playoffs, they have been looking good so far.

I'm just putting that out there as an "if the top seeds all win their region" hypothetical.  I don't think anybody is safe after the second round.  Lots of really good teams out there beyond the top 3-4 that could really press the favorites in a regional final. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 04, 2014, 11:31:59 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 04, 2014, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 04, 2014, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 03, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Interesting question is, assuming Wesley is a number one seed right now, do they still warrant a top seed if they lose to I-FCS UNC Charlotte next Saturday?

It would be a first if Wesley actually got a #1 seed vs UMHB without a major shift and allowing Wesley to be seeded in the East.  I would love to see it, but.......

Now if they lose to Charlotte, who knows.  It technically shouldn't matter, but you can never tell for sure how much a loss like that weighs in the minds of the committee....

-Ski

THERE IS NO EAST REGION IN THE BRACKET. 

Wesley doesn't get a #1 seed in the tournament because they keep doing dumb things like losing to Kean and Rowan. 

This year, I think Wesley is in line to get a #1 seed, play three home games and then probably travel to either UWW or UMU for a semifinal if the top seeds hold serve through the first three rounds.
I think the Charlotte game won't have much bearing should Wesley lose. You don't really expect a Division III team to go beat a D1, especially one that is bound for CUSA next year, regardless of their record. I think it is definitely doable for Wesley to win the game (Charlotte will be the best team they have played all year), and should they come out with a win, it will open some eyes on that committee I would think out of natural curiosity. So either way, I think they are destined for a 1 seed (knock on wood), barring something unforseen. I'm hoping for a win though of course  ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 08, 2014, 10:50:36 PM
Lyco losing along with Montclair could have given HOB a shot at 1 in next ERR but Lyco hangs on in OT and DVC keeps a RRO.

Guessing top 3 remains unchanged.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 10, 2014, 09:41:19 AM
We discuss playoffs and the ECACs in a lot of detail in the "4th qtr" of the show. I whiffed on saying 12 (when it really was 14) AQs were clinched but oh well.

The podcast can be found here:

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/10/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 10, 2014, 06:10:53 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 10, 2014, 09:41:19 AM
We discuss playoffs and the ECACs in a lot of detail in the "4th qtr" of the show. I whiffed on saying 12 (when it really was 14) AQs were clinched but oh well.

The podcast can be found here:

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/10/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show
You and Frank did a good job disscussing the.... PLAYOFFS!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 11, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Let's see what discussion my East Bracket brings :

1.   Wesley   IND
2.   Widner   MAC
3.   Hobart    LL
4.   Del-Val   MAC
5.   Ithaca    Empire 8
6.   Rowan   NJAC
7.   Husson  ECFC - best travel distance, but a little over 500 miles.
8.   MIT        NEFC
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HSCTiger74 on November 11, 2014, 01:48:18 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 11, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Let's see what discussion my East Bracket brings :

1.   Wesley   IND
2.   Widner   MAC
3.   Hobart    LL
4.   Del-Val   MAC
5.   Ithaca    Empire 8
6.   Rowan   NJAC
7.   Husson  ECFC - best travel distance, but a little over 500 miles.
8.   MIT        NEFC

  That's an interesting and fairly competitive bracket, but if more than four of those teams actually end up in the same group I'll be very surprised.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Boxer7806 on November 11, 2014, 04:21:36 PM
You forgot framingham who was number 5 last week and won this week
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on November 11, 2014, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 11, 2014, 04:21:36 PM
You forgot framingham who was number 5 last week and won this week

I was projecting the NCAA Playoffs. The conference Framingham is in does not get an AQ I think. Let me know if I am wrong. I'm pretty sure the loser of the Del-Val / Widner game will get a pool B at 9-1.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 11, 2014, 08:02:52 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 11, 2014, 04:54:23 PM
I was projecting the NCAA Playoffs. The conference Framingham is in does not get an AQ I think. Let me know if I am wrong. I'm pretty sure the loser of the Del-Val / Widner game will get a pool B at 9-1.

You are correct, the MASCAC does not get a pool A until next year. You are also correct in that it would be shocking for the loser of Del Val/Widener to not get a Pool C. I think Framingham has a shot though, as they would be on the board for a Pool C once Del Val/Widener was chosen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 11, 2014, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: rams1102 on November 11, 2014, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Boxer7806 on November 11, 2014, 04:21:36 PM
You forgot framingham who was number 5 last week and won this week

I was projecting the NCAA Playoffs. The conference Framingham is in does not get an AQ I think. Let me know if I am wrong. I'm pretty sure the loser of the Del-Val / Widner game will get a pool B at 9-1.

Yeah... Pool C for the MAC loser... Pool B is reserved for conferences without AQs or independent schools (i.e. Wesley).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 12, 2014, 01:34:54 PM
Interesting that both WID and DVC now have SoS's below HOB's leading into next ERR's. Mont dropping out will help HOB but not sure by how much. MoState will likley appear with an 8-2 record and win over previous ERR #8 Mont.

Don't see SLU dropping too far out given Raymond on the ERAC.

MIT's SoS is now below .4000 so they probably aren't moving up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 12, 2014, 01:39:58 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 12, 2014, 01:34:54 PM
Interesting that both WID and DVC now have SoS's below HOB's leading into next ERR's. Mont dropping out will help HOB but not sure by how much. MoState will likley appear with an 8-2 record and win over previous ERR #8 Mont.

Don't see SLU dropping too far out given Raymond on the ERAC.

MIT's SoS is now below .4000 so they probably aren't moving up.

ITH - If you had to guess, what seed do you think that 9-1 MAC runner up gets in the playoffs?

I know that certain people freak out when they see "Eastern Region"..................so let me call it the "bracket that might just include some teams in the eastern part of the country" ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 12, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
Good question. Last season an 8-2 Leb Val made it in the Mt U bracket probably as a 5 or 6. While a 10-0 MAC champ is probably a 2 or 3 seed, I'm guessing the runner up is probably a 4 or 5 depending on where they land. I'll say at best a 3 or 4 and hosting since we did see a number of 1 (and a couple of 2) loss teams host in Rd 1.

I think this is especially handy given the large(r) number of "South" teams with UMHB, JHU, W&J ,CEN, TLU, etc in the mix. Not to mention the fact that the NJAC champ (if it's Mo State) would have at least 1 or more losses and be w/i a 500 mile radius.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: amh63 on November 12, 2014, 04:25:25 PM
It may not mean much to the post season selection, but some national attention was given to MIT and it's 8-0 record to date...WSJ had a feature story in its limited sports section today.  MIT...Footballl...undefeated...seemed to be an unusual combination for the editors :).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wcrosby on November 12, 2014, 05:46:16 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 12, 2014, 01:34:54 PM
Interesting that both WID and DVC now have SoS's below HOB's leading into next ERR's. Mont dropping out will help HOB but not sure by how much. MoState will likley appear with an 8-2 record and win over previous ERR #8 Mont.

Don't see SLU dropping too far out given Raymond on the ERAC.

MIT's SoS is now below .4000 so they probably aren't moving up.

Where do you get that SoS for MIT?  D3football.com has it at .425, -- the same place it was last week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 12, 2014, 06:47:22 PM
You're right, I mistakenly took the OWP
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 12, 2014, 08:37:30 PM
Last Updated - November 12, 2014

Regional Rankings

EAST         
1 Delaware Valley 9-0 9-0     
2 Hobart 9-0 9-0     
3 Widener 9-0 9-0     
4 Framingham State 8-1 8-1     
5 Ithaca 7-2 7-2     
6 St. John Fisher 6-2 7-2     
7 MIT 8-0 8-0     
8 St. Lawrence 7-2 7-2     
9 Rowan 6-3 6-3     
10 Husson 6-1 7-1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 13, 2014, 10:20:07 AM
Here's a playoff refresher for you on a #tbt:

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2013/11/18/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

NCAA chair Duey Naatz interview starts about 23 mins in but there is playoff and seeding discussion leading up to it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MSU Pride on November 14, 2014, 01:53:00 PM
Can someone explain this to me, am I reading this correctly? I was under the impression that Montclair would not be in a position to get an automatic bid, but I just read that if TCNJ beast Rowan we get the bid?

Because it held first-half leads in a 31-0 win over Morrisville State and a 20-16 loss to Montclair State, the two teams it is tied with atop the conference, Rowan is playoff-bound with any kind of win Friday. With a loss, Montclair would need only beat 2-7 Kean to get in. Morrisville State, 8-2 and off this week, needs two 2-7 teams to pull upsets to receive the automatic bid.

"Keep Pounding"

Sam Mills
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 14, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: amh63 on November 12, 2014, 04:25:25 PM
It may not mean much to the post season selection, but some national attention was given to MIT and it's 8-0 record to date...WSJ had a feature story in its limited sports section today.  MIT...Footballl...undefeated...seemed to be an unusual combination for the editors :).
MIT coached by Chad Martinovich, Hobart'94! Best quote was "MIT players have a better chance to own an NFL team than to play for one". Go Engineers!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 17, 2014, 10:23:41 AM
ICYMI: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/17/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

Duey comes on around 30 min mark
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 18, 2014, 04:01:59 PM
IC-HOB Rd 1 game preview (written from my alumni blogger perspective):

http://gohobart.blogspot.com

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2014, 10:50:50 AM
Here goes some of LewDogg11's BOLD predictions for the playoffs...

Hobart - 28
Ithaca - 10
A lot of talk this week about it being a winnable game for Ithaca, which it is...But I think Hobart is the better team, and their playoff experience and home field advantage should come through this week.

Johnnie Hopkins and Sloan Kettering - 35
Rowan - 6
I used to party with Johnnie Hopkins and Sloan Kettering and their blazing speed will handily take are of Rowan.

Delaware Valley - 24
Christopher Newport - 21
Is CNU's conference any good at all?  I like DV in a tight one.

Widener - 42
Muhlenburg - 14
I don't think Muhlenburg should be in this field, but they are.  Hopefully Widener proves me right.

MIT - 112
Husson - -2
I don't think the world of either team and neither should be playing in round 2, but Husson should get smoked.

ECAC's

RPI - 31
Framingham St. - 28
Franks kicks a rock solid frozen ball 48 yarder to win it as time expires.

Fisher - 69
Western Ct - 3
The party still rages on in Danbury at the Osborne St. Pub.  Other than Pat C., not many people left here will understand that one...

All of the other games I don't really care about.  Happy Turkey Legs.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fswick.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Fturkey%2Fhead.jpg&hash=7ab49ffd5f574bc14b40a2b08a087022c8a01c36)


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 21, 2014, 10:57:18 AM
I agree with some of those predictions, but then the others I question, especially the last three. I doubt MIT puts that many points on Husson and I doubt Husson only scores 2. I actually think the MIT vs. Husson game is going to interesting to watch with MIT pulling away in the 3rd. As far as the SJF game, I can see it getting out of hand, but who knows which team will show up against Western Conn.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2014, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 21, 2014, 10:57:18 AM
I agree with some of those predictions, but then the others I question, especially the last three. I doubt MIT puts that many points on Husson and I doubt Husson only scores 2. I actually think the MIT vs. Husson game is going to interesting to watch with MIT pulling away in the 3rd. As far as the SJF game, I can see it getting out of hand, but who knows which team will show up against Western Conn.

How much does it matter?  Western CT won 5 games in 5 years in the NJAC.  Even if improved, I don't think it matters much.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 21, 2014, 12:40:59 PM
LD is right........
It is Varsity vs JV in this one
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ECoastFootball on November 21, 2014, 12:55:00 PM
I don't buy the RPI v Framingham score. I don't think (outside of Hobart) that the LL and E8 are remotely the same thing. If this were SLU v Fram, I'd but not a 6-4 RPI team. We'll find out tomorrow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 21, 2014, 01:03:22 PM
Jeesh, you woulda thought I picked RPI by 40.  I think it's anyone's game and it could very well be a route by Framingham.  That said, just keep in mind RPI was rolling towards having a shot for the LL title when their QB went down in the first half against St. Lawrence.  After that point they struggled for the next 3 games.  They finished on a strong note so i'm convinced that maybe they got their stuff together and if that is the case, they should be able to beat Framingham.  If the team that lost to Rochester shows up, they'll lose by 4 TDs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 21, 2014, 10:50:50 AM
Here goes some of LewDogg11's BOLD predictions for the playoffs...

Hobart - 28
Ithaca - 10
A lot of talk this week about it being a winnable game for Ithaca, which it is...But I think Hobart is the better team, and their playoff experience and home field advantage should come through this week.

Johnnie Hopkins and Sloan Kettering - 35
Rowan - 6
I used to party with Johnnie Hopkins and Sloan Kettering and their blazing speed will handily take are of Rowan.

Delaware Valley - 24
Christopher Newport - 21
Is CNU's conference any good at all?  I like DV in a tight one.

Widener - 42
Muhlenburg - 14
I don't think Muhlenburg should be in this field, but they are.  Hopefully Widener proves me right.

MIT - 112
Husson - -2
I don't think the world of either team and neither should be playing in round 2, but Husson should get smoked.

ECAC's

RPI - 31
Framingham St. - 28
Franks kicks a rock solid frozen ball 48 yarder to win it as time expires.

Fisher - 69
Western Ct - 3
The party still rages on in Danbury at the Osborne St. Pub.  Other than Pat C., not many people left here will understand that one...

All of the other games I don't really care about.  Happy Turkey Legs.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fswick.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Fturkey%2Fhead.jpg&hash=7ab49ffd5f574bc14b40a2b08a087022c8a01c36)

Dogg - The Widener-Muhlenberg score looks about right. On a side note, a Widener grad told me that Widener has the most players from DIII to have legitimate (vs. a cup of coffee) NFL careers. I'll take his word for it.

I like DelVal over CNU by a 38-28 score. Good offenses and incredibly young and hobbled defenses. DelVal wrestling awaits the arrival of two football players to join their 4th ranked (in DIII) wrestling program. Mind blowing for a small school (the anti-UWW) in the Philly suburbs. Not exactly the Iowa/Minnesota/Oklahoma wrestling hotbed ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 21, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Dogg - The Widener-Muhlenberg score looks about right. On a side note, a Widener grad told me that Widener has the most players from DIII to have legitimate (vs. a cup of coffee) NFL careers. I'll take his word for it.


Jay

It's funny, That same comment was made to me last night by a former WU All American...given that the WU alumni All Americans were out in force last week, I'm sure it's a topic that came up and has been discussed all week.
Personally, I don't see it...and said as much...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2014, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bman on November 21, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Dogg - The Widener-Muhlenberg score looks about right. On a side note, a Widener grad told me that Widener has the most players from DIII to have legitimate (vs. a cup of coffee) NFL careers. I'll take his word for it.


Jay

It's funny, That same comment was made to me last night by a former WU All American...given that the WU alumni All Americans were out in force last week, I'm sure it's a topic that came up and has been discussed all week.

Personally, I don't see it...and said as much...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/widener/

I guess since they had two guys with long careers in the 70's/80's, one dude who played for five years in the 60's, and one dude who played for five years in the 30's (since "legitimate" presumably removes the one-year "cup of coffee" guys)...they have four guys who had "legitimate" careers (all of whom played at Widener 40+ years ago and had their NFL careers end 25+ years ago).  So, uh, good for them?  Also...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/johncarroll/

I think John Carroll has them beat.  Six guys with careers 4+ years, including some dude named Don Shula who had a decent coaching career, two with 10+ year careers, including London Fletcher (arguably the most successful NFL player from D3).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 21, 2014, 02:48:55 PM
Agreed on Widener easily beating Muhlenburg.  That is the one pool C team that I disagree with.  They come from a weak conference and will likely be easily dispatched of. 

I think that Hobart will beat Ithaca.  But LD was correct earlier this week when he said that if Hobart loses it will be used as fuel to fan the flames of the E8's superiority over the LL.  If Hobart wins, well then...Ithaca is flawed and has already shown that.  You have to love how that works out for the E8 either way haha. 

But seriously, i'm predicting Hobart to win because they seem like a decent team.  Ithaca can be had.  They have been beaten 3 times already and really if Fisher didn't save their worst regular season*  offensive performance in a decade, it would likely have been 4 times. 

*Excluding our regular season series with Mount Union.  That doesn't count. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 05:35:12 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2014, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bman on November 21, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Dogg - The Widener-Muhlenberg score looks about right. On a side note, a Widener grad told me that Widener has the most players from DIII to have legitimate (vs. a cup of coffee) NFL careers. I'll take his word for it.


Jay

It's funny, That same comment was made to me last night by a former WU All American...given that the WU alumni All Americans were out in force last week, I'm sure it's a topic that came up and has been discussed all week.

Personally, I don't see it...and said as much...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/widener/

I guess since they had two guys with long careers in the 70's/80's, one dude who played for five years in the 60's, and one dude who played for five years in the 30's (since "legitimate" presumably removes the one-year "cup of coffee" guys)...they have four guys who had "legitimate" careers (all of whom played at Widener 40+ years ago and had their NFL careers end 25+ years ago).  So, uh, good for them?  Also...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/johncarroll/

I think John Carroll has them beat.  Six guys with careers 4+ years, including some dude named Don Shula who had a decent coaching career, two with 10+ year careers, including London Fletcher (arguably the most successful NFL player from D3).

Wow, Tartan woke up on the wrong side of the rock.................."So, uh, good for them?"..................I guess if you are a proud Widener alum, yes, good for them. "Some dude named Don Shula", you are cute one Tartan. I was only aware of one of the best return men in NFL history, Billy "White Shoes" Johnson as a Widener alum. Wasn't looking to see "who's was bigger than who's".

Back to our regular programming :-* :-*
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D O.C. on November 21, 2014, 05:49:52 PM
Safe travels all!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 21, 2014, 06:36:24 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 05:35:12 PM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 21, 2014, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bman on November 21, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on November 21, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Dogg - The Widener-Muhlenberg score looks about right. On a side note, a Widener grad told me that Widener has the most players from DIII to have legitimate (vs. a cup of coffee) NFL careers. I'll take his word for it.


Jay

It's funny, That same comment was made to me last night by a former WU All American...given that the WU alumni All Americans were out in force last week, I'm sure it's a topic that came up and has been discussed all week.

Personally, I don't see it...and said as much...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/widener/

I guess since they had two guys with long careers in the 70's/80's, one dude who played for five years in the 60's, and one dude who played for five years in the 30's (since "legitimate" presumably removes the one-year "cup of coffee" guys)...they have four guys who had "legitimate" careers (all of whom played at Widener 40+ years ago and had their NFL careers end 25+ years ago).  So, uh, good for them?  Also...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/schools/johncarroll/

I think John Carroll has them beat.  Six guys with careers 4+ years, including some dude named Don Shula who had a decent coaching career, two with 10+ year careers, including London Fletcher (arguably the most successful NFL player from D3).

Wow, Tartan woke up on the wrong side of the rock.................."So, uh, good for them?"..................I guess if you are a proud Widener alum, yes, good for them. "Some dude named Don Shula", you are cute one Tartan. I was only aware of one of the best return men in NFL history, Billy "White Shoes" Johnson as a Widener alum. Wasn't looking to see "who's was bigger than who's".

Back to our regular programming :-* :-*

D.O.C ...likewise!

And in Billy "White shoes" you get one of the nicest people you could ever meet, and a great ambassador for Widener over the years...  Definitely proud to have him associated with the school/program.

Funny though, I did look up pros from CMU, but I couldn't find anyone...at least in the last 70 years... :P

I don't know that the Muhlenberg game is a romp for WU, but will take them 44-27...I just have a weird feeling about this game...can't explain it.

I do like Del Val (and the Over  ::)) in a 55-21 game....

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 21, 2014, 07:35:12 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 21, 2014, 02:48:55 PM
Agreed on Widener easily beating Muhlenburg.  That is the one pool C team that I disagree with.  They come from a weak conference and will likely be easily dispatched of. 

I think that Hobart will beat Ithaca.  But LD was correct earlier this week when he said that if Hobart loses it will be used as fuel to fan the flames of the E8's superiority over the LL.  If Hobart wins, well then...Ithaca is flawed and has already shown that.  You have to love how that works out for the E8 either way haha. 

But seriously, i'm predicting Hobart to win because they seem like a decent team.  Ithaca can be had.  They have been beaten 3 times already and really if Fisher didn't save their worst regular season*  offensive performance in a decade, it would likely have been 4 times. 

*Excluding our regular season series with Mount Union.  That doesn't count.
.  And if it snows, ithaca will lose, but if they win in the snow, they were the better team anyway.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 21, 2014, 10:53:55 PM
Exactly!  Can't hate on that logic at all haha
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2014, 08:26:30 AM
Hobart by 10...24-14. Let's hope for an injury free day of what we all love: D3 Playoff Football!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2014, 08:49:32 AM
It's a bummer that d3football.com wasted their front page with an Ithaca picture. #1andDone #LossAlreadyExcused #TakingMyBallAndGoingHome


Haha. If Ithaca wins I'll be on the E8 train next week, but for now I'll ride the LL for a few stops.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 22, 2014, 09:27:34 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2014, 08:49:32 AM
It's a bummer that d3football.com wasted their front page with an Ithaca picture. #1andDone #LossAlreadyExcused #TakingMyBallAndGoingHome


Haha. If Ithaca wins I'll be on the E8 train next week, but for now I'll ride the LL for a few stops.

The sun is trying to split the clouds in Geneva this morning...  the same way Tyre will split  the Ithaca Oline on the way up the all time sack list. Ithaca-Hobart match-up is great for this Finger Lakes rumble which should be a close one. Ball  bounces could determine the outcome,  but see Hobart winning 28-21 with a fourth quarter go ahead TD pass to Berkowitz from Conlan to  prove the D3football.com predictions wrong and dlip, Lewdogg and ITH(nice pregame write-up!) right! Tons of respect to Ithaca for beating Fisher for the E8 title , but It should be a great day to be a Statesman! 

Good luck to all of the East D3 teams today and congratulations on extending your seasons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 22, 2014, 09:29:29 AM
I think Hobart wins this game by 10.  The Widener game is going to be tighter than most think and I expect a shoot our in DelVal with DelVal winning it.  I don't think Rowan has any chance to beat Hopkins.  Playoff football gets started.  Almost forgot the big game today, I am taking Husson against MIT.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: GoPerry on November 22, 2014, 09:51:33 AM
Nobody should miss the article in Saturday's Wall Street Journal on MIT's Football Team.  "How MIT Engineered a Football Team Out of Scrap".

Here's the link but it might not work if you're not a subscriber to the Online WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/articles/how-players-at-mit-engineered-a-football-team-1416586648


Enjoy!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 22, 2014, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 22, 2014, 09:29:29 AM
I think Hobart wins this game by 10.  The Widener game is going to be tighter than most think and I expect a shoot our in DelVal with DelVal winning it.  I don't think Rowan has any chance to beat Hopkins.  Playoff football gets started.  Almost forgot the big game today, I am taking Husson against MIT.
MIT over Husson by the square root of 196. MIT coached by Hobart  alum.

Would love a Wesley - Hobart  2011 playoff game rematch,( looks like a tremendous Wesley team this year)but Hobart needs their 2 best performances of the year to get there

No matter what the game outcomes, at least we have a bracket of real Eastern teams
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2014, 05:58:40 PM
Good football today. Good win by Hobart.  RPI game went as expected other than the final score. Kudos to the NCAA for not putting Framingham in. They are good but definitely not playoff good. MIT is gonna get royally messed up next week. Hobart is in for another battle. LL > E8.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: continental on November 22, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Did you go to the RPI game?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: continental on November 22, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Did you go to the RPI game?

No I watched the live stream.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 22, 2014, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: continental on November 22, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Did you go to the RPI game?

No I watched the live stream.
Did you at least do an Irish Car Bomb?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: lewdogg11 on November 22, 2014, 10:20:38 PM
Quote from: bman on November 22, 2014, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: continental on November 22, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Did you go to the RPI game?

No I watched the live stream.
Did you at least do an Irish Car Bomb?

If by car bombs you mean tea parties, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, and singing songs from Frozen...then YES, many many car bombs!  :-)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 23, 2014, 07:39:41 AM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2014, 10:20:38 PM
Quote from: bman on November 22, 2014, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: LewDogg11 on November 22, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: continental on November 22, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Did you go to the RPI game?

No I watched the live stream.
Did you at least do an Irish Car Bomb?

If by car bombs you mean tea parties, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, and singing songs from Frozen...then YES, many many car bombs!  :-)
HA!
Yeah...that's what I meant... ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wcrosby on November 23, 2014, 08:49:28 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 22, 2014, 09:29:29 AM
I think Hobart wins this game by 10.  The Widener game is going to be tighter than most think and I expect a shoot our in DelVal with DelVal winning it.  I don't think Rowan has any chance to beat Hopkins.  Playoff football gets started.  Almost forgot the big game today, I am taking Husson against MIT.

Wesleydad -- Husson thought they had it won too.  But then they failed to convert a fake punt on 4th and 5 on our 35, and we took over with < 54 seconds left.  Got a great pass play to Brad Goldsberry, and then another, where you see one of their coaches run up to the ref and scream right in his face (obviously something nasty), and they move us into field goal position.  Then the clock breaks, which gives us 2 full minutes to get a field goal prepared.  They tell us there are 18 seconds left, Goldsberry takes a pass and gets stopped in the field of play, but somehow the FG team gets on and kicks it through with no time left.  We got very lucky.  See you next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wcrosby on November 23, 2014, 08:51:24 AM
Quote from: GoPerry on November 22, 2014, 09:51:33 AM
Nobody should miss the article in Saturday's Wall Street Journal on MIT's Football Team.  "How MIT Engineered a Football Team Out of Scrap".

Here's the link but it might not work if you're not a subscriber to the Online WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/articles/how-players-at-mit-engineered-a-football-team-1416586648


Enjoy!

Thanks -- it was fun talking to Ben Cohen about that article, and pulling all of the documents out of that archive.  I even got a chance to connect with Tim Lange of Siena.  As I said to him, MIT owes the players from the Siena program (deceased) a debt of gratitude for coming and playing us in 1978!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 23, 2014, 08:52:39 AM
Quote from: wcrosby on November 23, 2014, 08:49:28 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 22, 2014, 09:29:29 AM
I think Hobart wins this game by 10.  The Widener game is going to be tighter than most think and I expect a shoot our in DelVal with DelVal winning it.  I don't think Rowan has any chance to beat Hopkins.  Playoff football gets started.  Almost forgot the big game today, I am taking Husson against MIT.

Wesleydad -- Husson thought they had it won too.  But then they failed to convert a fake punt on 4th and 5 on our 35, and we took over with < 54 seconds left.  Got a great pass play to Brad Goldsberry, and then another, where you see one of their coaches run up to the ref and scream right in his face (obviously something nasty), and they move us into field goal position.  Then the clock breaks, which gives us 2 full minutes to get a field goal prepared.  They tell us there are 18 seconds left, Goldsberry takes a pass and gets stopped in the field of play, but somehow the FG team gets on and kicks it through with no time left.  We got very lucky.  See you next week.

Another weird ending to a game.  widener/muhlenberg was just as crazy.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wcrosby on November 23, 2014, 09:04:33 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 23, 2014, 08:52:39 AM
Quote from: wcrosby on November 23, 2014, 08:49:28 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 22, 2014, 09:29:29 AM
I think Hobart wins this game by 10.  The Widener game is going to be tighter than most think and I expect a shoot our in DelVal with DelVal winning it.  I don't think Rowan has any chance to beat Hopkins.  Playoff football gets started.  Almost forgot the big game today, I am taking Husson against MIT.

Wesleydad -- Husson thought they had it won too.  But then they failed to convert a fake punt on 4th and 5 on our 35, and we took over with < 54 seconds left.  Got a great pass play to Brad Goldsberry, and then another, where you see one of their coaches run up to the ref and scream right in his face (obviously something nasty), and they move us into field goal position.  Then the clock breaks, which gives us 2 full minutes to get a field goal prepared.  They tell us there are 18 seconds left, Goldsberry takes a pass and gets stopped in the field of play, but somehow the FG team gets on and kicks it through with no time left.  We got very lucky.  See you next week.

Another weird ending to a game.  widener/muhlenberg was just as crazy.
I just read the recap.  That was nuts.  When the clock went out at Husson with 24 seconds left, Somebody commented "There are enough electirical engineers in this place -- can't someone fix it?"

Also -- I just want to say this -- we were told we couldn't host the game because our press box and other facilities were unsatisfactory.  Yes, they have more seating than us -- but it is oriented for baseball.  Seeing anything in the east endzone was impossible if you sat right at the 50, which was the furthest to that side you could get.  The press box was no larger than ours -- may have been smaller.  And they had to take the tops of the stands for tents for the spotters.  You can't tell me that we didn't deserve the home field.  On the other hand, we somehow got a few hundred people up to Bangor on a cold day.  We hear that a large contingent of students will attend this Saturday in Dover.  We know you guys are vastly superior, but MIT has a tendency to play up in big games. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 23, 2014, 09:48:01 AM
Congratulations to MIT on extending your  historic season. Good luck in Dover!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 23, 2014, 01:29:02 PM
Tonight we interview Coach Martinovich on the Husson win and advancing to face Wesley. Tune in at 7:30 pm to www.inthehuddlle.com!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 24, 2014, 12:40:29 PM
Sorry for the late post, but I had a chance to watch a majority of the playoff games this past weekend and have to say, this was by far one of the most spectacular 1st rounds I have seen in a long time. Forgive me for reiterating what has already been said by other posters and podcast (haven't listened yet).

I'll start off talking about the Ithaca vs. Hobart game. This game came down to the "Redzone". Ithaca continues to be a great defensive team, however the offense inability to score points in the Redzone really prevented the game from getting out of hand. I was saying to myself just after the 4 field goal try that put Ithaca ahead 12-0 that Ithaca blew their opportunity from dominating the game and somewhat putting Hobart away. Yet even after that they continued to play well and tacked on another field goal that made it 15-0, however still not scoring a touchdown. Hobart kept playing great defensively themselves that kept them within a couple touchdowns was key, they eventually made a couple big plays late that put them in great position and they capitalized with touchdowns, which good teams do. Also, the fake punt was a head scratcher, I didn't think it was necessary and really change the momentum of the game. Overall, it was a great game to watch from an outside perspective, to see a good comeback. I think Hobart represented the LL well and Ithaca play how Ithaca has played how they all year, playing good defense, getting points where they could.

Now there is the Muhlenberg vs. Widener game, no way did I think this was going to be as close, yet alone, almost an upset (I am not going to get into the calls). I watch a couple of the Mules games this year and was really impressed with them coming into the game, however I thought Widener was going to pull away in the third. Muhlenberg had a great game plan for Widener and didn't seemed fazed, they played Widener as if they were the better team, so hats off to the Mules. Widener made big time plays here and there that kept them from losing momentum. I believe both teams were evenly matched and if they played 10 games, it would be 50-50.

Then it was the shocker was the CNU vs. Delaware Valley game. As predicted this game was going to be a barn burner with each team defense being unable to stop the opposing teams offense, however it was almost a tale of two halves with a great finish from a very tough CNU team, they really kept with their game plan a ended up with the win, hats off to them in representing the USA South in their last year in the conference. As some have already mentioned their was an injury to Del Val QB, which definitely changed the game, but championship teams have to adjust and be able to adjust on the fly, especially in the playoffs. Do I think the game would have been different if Wilmer were 100%, yes. Overall, one of the best games to watch.

Now for the Rowan vs. Johns Hopkins game (shout out to their broadcast, great video). Johns Hopkins look like the most complete team and continued to be well balance and played great defense, even though it wasn't spectacular showing on offense. Rowan kept it close in the end, but never seemed to be able to capitalize on early turnovers by Johns Hopkins. Johns Hopkins play a bend but don't break defense. I think next weeks game is going to be interesting between both Hobart and Hopkins.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 24, 2014, 01:34:02 PM
It was never 15-0 in the Hobart-IC game. Statesmen scored on a 1 yard TD run to make it 12-7 in the 3rd, then IC countered with their only points of the 2nd half to make it 15-7. Hobart then scored the remaining 15 unanswered to win it.

To Rowan's credit they were the top ranked D in the NJAC (which in most years says a lot but this season seemed like the conference was down), which is probably why JHU struggled, at least to start.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wcrosby on November 24, 2014, 01:59:28 PM
Johns Hopkins has the video feed that every team should attempt to match!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 24, 2014, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 24, 2014, 01:34:02 PM
It was never 15-0 in the Hobart-IC game. Statesmen scored on a 1 yard TD run to make it 12-7 in the 3rd, then IC countered with their only points of the 2nd half to make it 15-7. Hobart then scored the remaining 15 unanswered to win it.
To Rowan's credit they were the top ranked D in the NJAC (which in most years says a lot but this season seemed like the conference was down), which is probably why JHU struggled, at least to start.

thanks for the correction, it was tough to recall from watching multiple games all at once (it was all worth it though), got to see some great games, with amazing finishes.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 27, 2014, 09:11:38 AM
Happy thanksgiving everyone. Preview of Hop vs Hob is up at http://gohobart.blogspot.com. Really a game of mirror images in many ways. Should be a great one.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 28, 2014, 08:40:32 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 27, 2014, 09:11:38 AM
Happy thanksgiving everyone. Preview of Hop vs Hob is up at http://gohobart.blogspot.com. Really a game of mirror images in many ways. Should be a great one.
Nice pre-game summary. I think the skills of these 2 teams are as close as you can get and whether it is low or high scoring, it should be close and intense. Just imagine if the Statesmen could play games like they did against SLU and Ithaca, but with no turnovers? They clearly dominated Ithaca in the second half, and that kind of effort and execution is what the Statesmen need tomorrow along with the mental toughness to play the entire 4 quarters. Weather forecast in the mid 30's with 10-15 mph winds and 20% chance of rain....virtually perfect weather for the Finger Lakes.  Congratulations to both teams on the last 4 years of excellence, but may the Statesman prevail. GO BART!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
Well here are the Eastern Teams that will be in the playoffs. There will be no tension on the teams selected here.

Pool A:
Western New England
Norwich
Framingham State
St. Lawrence
Albright
Cortland State
Salisbury

Pool C:
Wesley

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 04:33:23 PM
I also feel bad for the east team that will probably have to face Mount Union in the 2nd round. They have allowed only 34 points this year. That's 3.4 points a game. The next lowest is 96 for this season. They have what looks to be an all time defense.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 14, 2015, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
Well here are the Eastern Teams that will be in the playoffs. There will be no tension on the teams selected here.

Pool A:
Western New England
Norwich
Framingham State
St. Lawrence
Albright
Cortland State
Salisbury

Pool C:
Wesley

not a very strong looking group compared to the rest of the country.  I hope that a few of them can win or be competitive in games against non east teams.  I know some will play each other in first round so hoping for a competitive second round game.  Will be interesting to see who ends up in Dover next week.  Salisbury can always give someone trouble with the triple option, but the defense is not very good.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 04:35:43 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 14, 2015, 04:34:26 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
Well here are the Eastern Teams that will be in the playoffs. There will be no tension on the teams selected here.

Pool A:
Western New England
Norwich
Framingham State
St. Lawrence
Albright
Cortland State
Salisbury

Pool C:
Wesley

not a very strong looking group compared to the rest of the country.  I hope that a few of them can win or be competitive in games against non east teams.  I know some will play each other in first round so hoping for a competitive second round game.  Will be interesting to see who ends up in Dover next week.  Salisbury can always give someone trouble with the triple option, but the defense is not very good.

I think Norwich will probably head your way. That should not be fun for them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Div3Fan on November 14, 2015, 05:44:42 PM
Norwich v. Wesley? It'll be a bloodbath...

They lost to three teams from the LL, and they just lost to Castleton.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 11:23:25 PM
Quote from: Div3Fan on November 14, 2015, 05:44:42 PM
Norwich v. Wesley? It'll be a bloodbath...

They lost to three teams from the LL, and they just lost to Castleton.

Yeah this is what was projected by the D3football.com crew last week and I checked the distance and it is under 500 miles. Another possibility is Norwich going to Johns Hopkins, which would leave Wesley with a slightly tougher opponent, probably. But I think it'll end up being Norwich, which Wesley will be able to toy with like a cat, I'd guess.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 15, 2015, 09:11:24 AM
Quote from: pg04 on November 14, 2015, 11:23:25 PM
Quote from: Div3Fan on November 14, 2015, 05:44:42 PM
Norwich v. Wesley? It'll be a bloodbath...

They lost to three teams from the LL, and they just lost to Castleton.

Yeah this is what was projected by the D3football.com crew last week and I checked the distance and it is under 500 miles. Another possibility is Norwich going to Johns Hopkins, which would leave Wesley with a slightly tougher opponent, probably. But I think it'll end up being Norwich, which Wesley will be able to toy with like a cat, I'd guess.

New bracket shows WNEC.  Guess an undefeated team is tougher but I still dont think it will be much of a game.  The bracket looks interesting with some nice second round games.  We could get to see if we ranked the east right if Albright beats W&L.  Or we get to see if Wesley can stop the triple option better than they did against Salisbury.  Win both of them an maybe UMHB or HSU beats Linfield in round 2 and Wesley hosts the third round.  Wn that one then a trip to St Thomas unless they lose to one of the WIAC teams and maybe Wesley hosts again, not sure which bracket was higher seed.  Pull off the upset there and Wesley makes the Stagg bowl.  May be dreaming but I dont think any of that is over the top crazy.  One can always hope.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Div3Fan on November 15, 2015, 09:18:57 AM
In the new bracket I see Wesley making it to the quarterfinals playing Linfield, and I have no idea who'd win that game.

I'd see Salisbury winning their first game, and then I'm clueless about how they'd perform against Hopkins. I've never seen a Hopkins team vs the option. As far as I know, the Centennial Conference has two kinds of teams: spread teams and pro-style "west coast" fb & te teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2015, 01:12:08 PM
Dlip thinks Linfield would completely exploit Wesley's defense. He hopes not but...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 15, 2015, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2015, 01:12:08 PM
Dlip thinks Linfield would completely exploit Wesley's defense. He hopes not but...

so we have a shoot out then.  Wesley would exploit their defense too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: stlawus on November 15, 2015, 06:15:36 PM
Well SLU draws Mount Union.  It was a good season :/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 15, 2015, 06:20:01 PM
Salisbury/Cortland match up will be interesting.  Wesley/Framingham is another one.  The other east teams will likely be gone after week 1.  Mount and UWW on same side of bracket.  Yes, someone knew in the show.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2015, 06:36:06 PM
Good Luck to the Salisbury/Cortland winner, who earn the right to fly all the way to Oregon to lose by 60. Seriously no east team may even make it to round 3 this year. I guess they deserve it.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 15, 2015, 06:40:53 PM
They gave Albright the raw end of the deal IMHO...As far as the winner of the Salisbury and Cortland St teams going out to Linfield, I think Cortland has the better chance because they have the ability to be balance, however Salisbury has the option, which is difficult to prepare for in one week when you haven't played against it, but Linfield defense is very very good and Salisbury Defense can't stop anyone so you are right.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Div3Fan on November 15, 2015, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2015, 06:36:06 PM
Good Luck to the Salisbury/Cortland winner, who earn the right to fly all the way to Oregon to lose by 60. Seriously no east team may even make it to round 3 this year. I guess they deserve it.

So true...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 15, 2015, 06:48:37 PM
Although Norwich is outside of the range of Mount Union, I don't understand why Norwich ended up with an easier opponent than St. Lawrence. I get distance but the competition level is not even close!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Div3Fan on November 15, 2015, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 15, 2015, 06:40:53 PM
They gave Albright the raw end of the deal IMHO...As far as the winner of the Salisbury and Cortland St teams going out to Linfield, I think Cortland has the better chance because they have the ability to be balance, however Salisbury has the option, which is difficult to prepare for in one week when you haven't played against it, but Linfield defense is very very good and Salisbury Defense can't stop anyone so you are right.

One week they are going to play the worst team in the playoffs, and the next the, arguably, best. I feel bad for Albright.

The SU/Cortland game is interesting. Two teams that flipped into the other's conference.
I think Salisbury will win, and get to enjoy a hopefully scenic flight out west.
I'd argue going West is much worse than coming East, so I expect the game to be a no contest.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Div3Fan on November 15, 2015, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 15, 2015, 06:48:37 PM
Although Norwich is outside of the range of Mount Union, I don't understand why Norwich ended up with an easier opponent than St. Lawrence. I get distance but the competition level is not even close!

I have many questions about the bracket this year, including yours. How does ONU get in over UWP?  ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 15, 2015, 07:13:07 PM
The were probably ranked behind Whitworth and Whit was the last team in
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jackson5 on November 15, 2015, 07:20:03 PM
How the committee thinks that St Lawrence deserves that seed is beyond me. Send Norwhich, Framingham or WNE their over them.

Then how Norwhich gets Albright at 6-4 when WNE gets John Hopkins is ridiculous
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 15, 2015, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: jackson5 on November 15, 2015, 07:20:03 PM
How the committee thinks that St Lawrence deserves that seed is beyond me. Send Norwhich, Framingham or WNE their over them.

Then how Norwhich gets Albright at 6-4 when WNE gets John Hopkins is ridiculous

Easiest answer to that... most of those schools are outside of 500 miles from Mount Union:
- Norwich: 630 miles
- Framingham: 609 miles
- Western New England: 558 miles

You are going to have to pick teams inside of 500 miles to make that argument.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2015, 07:54:31 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 15, 2015, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2015, 01:12:08 PM
Dlip thinks Linfield would completely exploit Wesley's defense. He hopes not but...

so we have a shoot out then.  Wesley would exploit their defense too.

You rock WD but that's not what Dlip meant...he meant without Wesley being able to keep up...and he feels Linfield's D would outperform Wesley's D which woul inhibit a shootout where Wesley comes out on top. That is a damn good Linfield team. Of course Dlip WOULD LOVE to eat crow on this...but he doesn't think we would have to.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2015, 07:58:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 15, 2015, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: jackson5 on November 15, 2015, 07:20:03 PM
How the committee thinks that St Lawrence deserves that seed is beyond me. Send Norwhich, Framingham or WNE their over them.

Then how Norwhich gets Albright at 6-4 when WNE gets John Hopkins is ridiculous

Easiest answer to that... most of those schools are outside of 500 miles from Mount Union:
- Norwich: 630 miles
- Framingham: 609 miles
- Western New England: 558 miles

You are going to have to pick teams inside of 500 miles to make that argument.

Regardless of the stupid 500 mile rule this sucks for SLU...however dlip's rebuttal to his own displeasure of SLU going to Mount is that SLU should have not lost to Morrisville or Hobart. If they were 10-0 and LL champs again, regardless of the stupid ****ing 500 mile rule, SLU and the rest of our LL brethren would have much more of a idealistic beef.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 15, 2015, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2015, 07:54:31 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 15, 2015, 05:12:57 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 15, 2015, 01:12:08 PM
Dlip thinks Linfield would completely exploit Wesley's defense. He hopes not but...

so we have a shoot out then.  Wesley would exploit their defense too.

You rock WD but that's not what Dlip meant...he meant without Wesley being able to keep up...and he feels Linfield's D would outperform Wesley's D which woul inhibit a shootout where Wesley comes out on top. That is a damn good Linfield team. Of course Dlip WOULD LOVE to eat crow on this...but he doesn't think we would have to.

I hear you, but I think that Linfield's D would have a good bit of trouble with this Wesley offense so a shoot out would occur.  No worries now since the only way that happens is if they both get to the stagg bowl.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 15, 2015, 08:06:26 PM
There is no doubt that Dlip would love to see Callahan light them up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 15, 2015, 10:51:51 PM
Let us know what you think:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2015/11/16/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D O.C. on November 15, 2015, 11:26:08 PM
dlip gets +

WD knows LINFIELD had to have learned from their Dover mistakes. Went out and got the pieces.

Oh! & I'd like to see Salisbury in McMinnville. Since Willamette quit running The Fly we haven't been able to have fun with any option stuff.

No injuries!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: redhawks on November 16, 2015, 07:41:47 AM
In my opinion a pretty even bracket this year. Committee got it right in essentially seeding the top 4 teams as the #1 seeds. If there is any year to put Whitewater and Mount Union on the same side is when one is not the AQ and has one loss. Now you have to hope if one of those teams makes it to the finals the opponent makes it a game or even wins. Now onto my view for east region teams.

St lawrence vs mt. union- mtu rolls. just how big is the final margin.

Albright vs Norwich- I see Albright winning this one but I wold not surprised if this is decided by  touchdown or less.

Wesley vs Framingham- My game of the week in the east region. I am leaning towards this one being a shootout. High 30s for both teams I see happening. I think Wesley will squeak by a touchdown.

Western New England vs Hopkins- I see this as a quality Hopkins team. I expect them to win by double digits. Also I can they see them reaching the quarters for the 1st time since2009.  They should have home field for their 2nd round matchup vs Wes or Fram.

Sals vs Cortland- Another game I see as being a high scoring affair. Easily can see both teams in the 40s. This would be my second game of the week. I want to learn toward Cortland being at home but feel the Gulls option attack will win out in end wearing down the dragons.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2015, 10:09:56 AM
Quote from: redhawks on November 16, 2015, 07:41:47 AM
In my opinion a pretty even bracket this year. Committee got it right in essentially seeding the top 4 teams as the #1 seeds. If there is any year to put Whitewater and Mount Union on the same side is when one is not the AQ and has one loss. Now you have to hope if one of those teams makes it to the finals the opponent makes it a game or even wins. Now onto my view for east region teams.

St lawrence vs mt. union- mtu rolls. just how big is the final margin.

Albright vs Norwich- I see Albright winning this one but I wold not surprised if this is decided by  touchdown or less.

Wesley vs Framingham- My game of the week in the east region. I am leaning towards this one being a shootout. High 30s for both teams I see happening. I think Wesley will squeak by a touchdown.

Western New England vs Hopkins- I see this as a quality Hopkins team. I expect them to win by double digits. Also I can they see them reaching the quarters for the 1st time since2009.  They should have home field for their 2nd round matchup vs Wes or Fram.

Sals vs Cortland- Another game I see as being a high scoring affair. Easily can see both teams in the 40s. This would be my second game of the week. I want to learn toward Cortland being at home but feel the Gulls option attack will win out in end wearing down the dragons.

SLU has some serious talent on defense and at the QB position. Granted they have not played a team really close to the caliber of Mt. This is a much better SLU team then the one that went out to Alliance years ago. With that said dlip thinks it will be at least a Monkey Stomp...if not a Double Monkey Stomp by the end. With that said dlip thinks SLU may be somewhat competitive in the first half. They just won't have the depth to keep it close.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 10:36:39 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 16, 2015, 10:09:56 AM
Quote from: redhawks on November 16, 2015, 07:41:47 AM
In my opinion a pretty even bracket this year. Committee got it right in essentially seeding the top 4 teams as the #1 seeds. If there is any year to put Whitewater and Mount Union on the same side is when one is not the AQ and has one loss. Now you have to hope if one of those teams makes it to the finals the opponent makes it a game or even wins. Now onto my view for east region teams.

St lawrence vs mt. union- mtu rolls. just how big is the final margin.

Albright vs Norwich- I see Albright winning this one but I wold not surprised if this is decided by  touchdown or less.

Wesley vs Framingham- My game of the week in the east region. I am leaning towards this one being a shootout. High 30s for both teams I see happening. I think Wesley will squeak by a touchdown.

Western New England vs Hopkins- I see this as a quality Hopkins team. I expect them to win by double digits. Also I can they see them reaching the quarters for the 1st time since2009.  They should have home field for their 2nd round matchup vs Wes or Fram.

Sals vs Cortland- Another game I see as being a high scoring affair. Easily can see both teams in the 40s. This would be my second game of the week. I want to learn toward Cortland being at home but feel the Gulls option attack will win out in end wearing down the dragons.

SLU has some serious talent on defense and at the QB position. Granted they have not played a team really close to the caliber of Mt. This is a much better SLU team then the one that went out to Alliance years ago. With that said dlip thinks it will be at least a Monkey Stomp...if not a Double Monkey Stomp by the end. With that said dlip thinks SLU may be somewhat competitive in the first half. They just won't have the depth to keep it close.

I love your optimism!! However, Look at the scores of the games MTU has played this year:

9/5   vs. Bethany •   W, 47-0   BX RC P P
9/19   vs. Muskingum * •   W, 56-0   BX P
9/26   at Marietta * •   W, 61-0   BX
10/3   vs. Capital * •   W, 62-7   BX P P
10/10   vs. Ohio Northern * •   W, 51-7   BX P
10/17   at Heidelberg * •   W, 59-17   BX RC
10/24   at Wilmington * •   W, 69-0   BX P
10/31   vs. Otterbein * •   W, 55-0   BX P P
11/7   vs. Baldwin Wallace * •   W, 42-0   BX P
11/14   at John Carroll * •   W, 36-3

Not to be the pessimistic one again, but They have allowed 34 points over 10 games. 34!!! If St. Lawrence scores more than 3, I would consider the game an upset.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 16, 2015, 12:42:36 PM
You are right on pg.04 (as usual my friend). dlip's thoughts on the possible competitiveness of the first half are simply based upon the level of skill, especially on defense, of SLU. However, he guesses that maybe his initial post was a tad too optimistic. Maybe SLU can hold them under 21 for a quarter...dlip is hoping for the best but of course realistically figuring the worst.

At least Mount and U Dub Dub Dub Dub have to face each other before the finals. dlip is very excited for another team to be in the final...just because...however he would never say that the final should have included any other teams when both Mount and Dub were there. They are simply amazing programs.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 01:04:58 PM
I'd love to see a competitive game for sure, but I just don't know how the points are going to be scored. This week St Lawrence had a glut of turnovers against MMA. Hope they do not repeat that or the game will be over before 5 minutes are gone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 16, 2015, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 16, 2015, 12:42:36 PM
You are right on pg.04 (as usual my friend). dlip's thoughts on the possible competitiveness of the first half are simply based upon the level of skill, especially on defense, of SLU. However, he guesses that maybe his initial post was a tad too optimistic. Maybe SLU can hold them under 21 for a quarter...dlip is hoping for the best but of course realistically figuring the worst.

At least Mount and U Dub Dub Dub Dub have to face each other before the finals. dlip is very excited for another team to be in the final...just because...however he would never say that the final should have included any other teams when both Mount and Dub were there. They are simply amazing programs.

I think this will be over by half time with Mount Union playing its backups early in the third. If St. Lawrence does get more than 7 and hold Mount under 42 , that would be better than 80% of the OAC opponents and a great accomplishment.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 16, 2015, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 16, 2015, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 16, 2015, 12:42:36 PM
You are right on pg.04 (as usual my friend). dlip's thoughts on the possible competitiveness of the first half are simply based upon the level of skill, especially on defense, of SLU. However, he guesses that maybe his initial post was a tad too optimistic. Maybe SLU can hold them under 21 for a quarter...dlip is hoping for the best but of course realistically figuring the worst.

At least Mount and U Dub Dub Dub Dub have to face each other before the finals. dlip is very excited for another team to be in the final...just because...however he would never say that the final should have included any other teams when both Mount and Dub were there. They are simply amazing programs.

I think this will be over by half time with Mount Union playing its backups early in the third. If St. Lawrence does get more than 7 and hold Mount under 42 , that would be better than 80% of the OAC opponents and a great accomplishment.
IMHO (and I know I am asking for trouble when I say this), but I think the OAC is weaker than usual. John Carroll definitely seemed more down than usual. ONU squeaked by 4-6 Utica in week 1, then lost to BW who was beaten by 6-4 Bluffton. No real second tier team that provided Mount with any real challenge. JCU was responsible for that last year. Heidelberg and JCU in 2013, somewhat Berg again in 2012. Several OAC teams had close scores with the 2011 Mount team.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
Not to rain on any parades etc...but the 34 Mount gave up is misleading. 7 to ONU was with 14 seconds left in a 51-0 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd. The 2 TDs to Berg were also late in 4th of a 59-3 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd quarter. The Mount starters gave up 1 TD (Capital) and 2 FGs (1 to Berg and 1 to JCU after JCU took over at Mounts 25 yard line on a bad punt). So really its more like 13 pts.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 16, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
Not to rain on any parades etc...but the 34 Mount gave up is misleading. 7 to ONU was with 14 seconds left in a 51-0 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd. The 2 TDs to Berg were also late in 4th of a 59-3 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd quarter. The Mount starters gave up 1 TD (Capital) and 2 FGs (1 to Berg and 1 to JCU after JCU took over at Mounts 25 yard line on a bad punt). So really its more like 13 pts.

Based on you assessment, you guys didn't face any competition all year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 16, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
Not to rain on any parades etc...but the 34 Mount gave up is misleading. 7 to ONU was with 14 seconds left in a 51-0 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd. The 2 TDs to Berg were also late in 4th of a 59-3 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd quarter. The Mount starters gave up 1 TD (Capital) and 2 FGs (1 to Berg and 1 to JCU after JCU took over at Mounts 25 yard line on a bad punt). So really its more like 13 pts.

Based on you assessment, you guys didn't face any competition all year.

I can see that argument. However, this Mount D is really good. The OAC was down a bit (IMHO) but teams like BW and JCU did get a lot better as the year went on. I know JCU was breaking in a new QB. Regardless - you could also say that Mounts D is that good - and that the backups are really good too. They only gave up 3 TDs to starting offenses.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 16, 2015, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
I can see that argument. However, this Mount D is really good. The OAC was down a bit (IMHO) but teams like BW and JCU did get a lot better as the year went on. I know JCU was breaking in a new QB. Regardless - you could also say that Mounts D is that good - and that the backups are really good too. They only gave up 3 TDs to starting offenses.

You could look at it that way until you realize BW lost to Blufton and still managed to beat ONU who beat JCU. Daisy chains are lazy analysis, but with only one OOC it's all you got. Otherwise all we have to compare is JCU beat a very mediocre St. Vincent and ONU beat a very mediocre Utica. Essentially there is no quality OOC win among the top of the OAC, and one very mediocre loss in the bunch. I mean UMU beat Bethany pretty much the same way they beat everyone else in the OAC, and we know about where Bethany lands in the grand scheme of things thanks to their PAC schedule.

What is more likely? All these teams UMU beat the same way are good regardless of the few underwhelming outside data points we have, or all these teams are pretty mediocre this year and UMU just steamrolled a whole schedule of essentially 75-175th best teams in DIII and the playoff committee randomly put one in the field because they got tired of seeing them on the table round after round?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
If I had to venture an educated guess, MTU is really really good and will roll their quadrant and perhaps finally get challenged in the semifinals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 16, 2015, 04:07:28 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
If I had to venture an educated guess, MTU is really really good and will roll their quadrant and perhaps finally get challenged in the semifinals.
I'd argue a potential challenge in the quarterfinals.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 16, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
If I had to venture an educated guess, MTU is really really good and will roll their quadrant and perhaps finally get challenged in the semifinals.

Yeah. I don't doubt that either. They may not give up a TD in the first two rounds. But I also don't think the OAC put up a single top 25 type challenge and UMU's numbers probably reflect that even more than usual.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 16, 2015, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
If I had to venture an educated guess, MTU is really really good and will roll their quadrant and perhaps finally get challenged in the semifinals.

I'd argue they have had some good challenges in the semifinals the last few years. One of the games went down to the very last second and last possession (two years ago? North Central? Trying to do this off the top of my head.).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 16, 2015, 04:13:34 PM
You are correct!  2013 North Central was won on a last minute drive in a blizzard.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 04:17:39 PM
Yep, I do think the deserving winner of UWO, UWW, and Wheaton will be the first to really scare them, and perhaps even beat them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2015, 06:36:55 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 16, 2015, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
I can see that argument. However, this Mount D is really good. The OAC was down a bit (IMHO) but teams like BW and JCU did get a lot better as the year went on. I know JCU was breaking in a new QB. Regardless - you could also say that Mounts D is that good - and that the backups are really good too. They only gave up 3 TDs to starting offenses.

You could look at it that way until you realize BW lost to Blufton and still managed to beat ONU who beat JCU. Daisy chains are lazy analysis, but with only one OOC it's all you got. Otherwise all we have to compare is JCU beat a very mediocre St. Vincent and ONU beat a very mediocre Utica. Essentially there is no quality OOC win among the top of the OAC, and one very mediocre loss in the bunch. I mean UMU beat Bethany pretty much the same way they beat everyone else in the OAC, and we know about where Bethany lands in the grand scheme of things thanks to their PAC schedule.

What is more likely? All these teams UMU beat the same way are good regardless of the few underwhelming outside data points we have, or all these teams are pretty mediocre this year and UMU just steamrolled a whole schedule of essentially 75-175th best teams in DIII and the playoff committee randomly put one in the field because they got tired of seeing them on the table round after round?

I was thinking the same thing, just could not have said it as well.  Mount's D may be really, really good but the competition does not look very strong on paper.  When you add that the second string D seems to be as dominant against other teams ones then you are looking at over matched teams.  As usual you never know because Mount is seldom challenged in the regular season and sometimes not until the Stagg.  I hope that Wesley can represent better than they did last year and if not them than Hopkins can show better than they did the last time they played Mount.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2015, 08:17:56 PM
If Wesley could get by that first 8 or so minutes in one of these marquee games maybe they could challenge the Purple Powers.  I know Wesley may not be as deep this year . Only time will tell
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 09:32:38 PM
Off topic, I've learned posters "smite" more in other regions. Whenever I decide to post elsewhere it's like a minefield  ;D :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on November 16, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 09:32:38 PM
Off topic, I've learned posters "smite" more in other regions. Whenever I decide to post elsewhere it's like a minefield  ;D :P
The MIAC is a great board with good guys...
I always take a few hits if I post anything on the Wisconsin board...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 16, 2015, 10:05:07 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 16, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
Not to rain on any parades etc...but the 34 Mount gave up is misleading. 7 to ONU was with 14 seconds left in a 51-0 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd. The 2 TDs to Berg were also late in 4th of a 59-3 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd quarter. The Mount starters gave up 1 TD (Capital) and 2 FGs (1 to Berg and 1 to JCU after JCU took over at Mounts 25 yard line on a bad punt). So really its more like 13 pts.

Based on you assessment, you guys didn't face any competition all year.

I can see that argument. However, this Mount D is really good. The OAC was down a bit (IMHO) but teams like BW and JCU did get a lot better as the year went on. I know JCU was breaking in a new QB. Regardless - you could also say that Mounts D is that good - and that the backups are really good too. They only gave up 3 TDs to starting offenses.

The OAC was way, WAY down this year offensively.    The Mount D is very good, but they weren't even remotely tested.   BW is their usual self by playing hard, but no playmakers.  JCU was solid, but no QB.  ONU has the makings of a good team in a couple yeras, hut they're young.  Rest of the OAC is horrid.

Offensively Mount is explosive, but inconsistent.    Much like the better MHB teams.  Crazy athletic at QB, but not consistently able to throw into tight windows on 3rd and 8 when you really need it.  Think "D3 version of Braxton Miller".
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2015, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 16, 2015, 10:05:07 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 16, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
Not to rain on any parades etc...but the 34 Mount gave up is misleading. 7 to ONU was with 14 seconds left in a 51-0 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd. The 2 TDs to Berg were also late in 4th of a 59-3 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd quarter. The Mount starters gave up 1 TD (Capital) and 2 FGs (1 to Berg and 1 to JCU after JCU took over at Mounts 25 yard line on a bad punt). So really its more like 13 pts.

Based on you assessment, you guys didn't face any competition all year.

I can see that argument. However, this Mount D is really good. The OAC was down a bit (IMHO) but teams like BW and JCU did get a lot better as the year went on. I know JCU was breaking in a new QB. Regardless - you could also say that Mounts D is that good - and that the backups are really good too. They only gave up 3 TDs to starting offenses.

The OAC was way, WAY down this year offensively.    The Mount D is very good, but they weren't even remotely tested.   BW is their usual self by playing hard, but no playmakers.  JCU was solid, but no QB.  ONU has the makings of a good team in a couple yeras, hut they're young.  Rest of the OAC is horrid.

Offensively Mount is explosive, but inconsistent.    Much like the better MHB teams.  Crazy athletic at QB, but not consistently able to throw into tight windows on 3rd and 8 when you really need it.  Think "D3 version of Braxton Miller".

Coach, good to hear from you.  Hope all is well with you and the family.  I always like to hear you view on things since you always seem to have a way of putting a proper prospective on it.  Maybe I will be seeing you in a few weeks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 16, 2015, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 16, 2015, 10:05:07 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 16, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Quote from: desertraider on November 16, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
Not to rain on any parades etc...but the 34 Mount gave up is misleading. 7 to ONU was with 14 seconds left in a 51-0 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd. The 2 TDs to Berg were also late in 4th of a 59-3 game. The backups played all of 4th and most of 3rd quarter. The Mount starters gave up 1 TD (Capital) and 2 FGs (1 to Berg and 1 to JCU after JCU took over at Mounts 25 yard line on a bad punt). So really its more like 13 pts.

Based on you assessment, you guys didn't face any competition all year.

I can see that argument. However, this Mount D is really good. The OAC was down a bit (IMHO) but teams like BW and JCU did get a lot better as the year went on. I know JCU was breaking in a new QB. Regardless - you could also say that Mounts D is that good - and that the backups are really good too. They only gave up 3 TDs to starting offenses.

The OAC was way, WAY down this year offensively.    The Mount D is very good, but they weren't even remotely tested.   BW is their usual self by playing hard, but no playmakers.  JCU was solid, but no QB.  ONU has the makings of a good team in a couple yeras, hut they're young.  Rest of the OAC is horrid.

Offensively Mount is explosive, but inconsistent.    Much like the better MHB teams.  Crazy athletic at QB, but not consistently able to throw into tight windows on 3rd and 8 when you really need it.  Think "D3 version of Braxton Miller".

To be fair he's thrown really well the last 5 games.  Of course he's missed on some throws, but his worst accuracy is 20-30 in that time and he's 20:1 TD to INT.  He's not Kevin Burke, but he's also not LiDarral Bailey IMO.  Scott has much more arm talent than Bailey.  Whether he can sit back and drill in the 3rd down pass against tight coverage is the million dollar question.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 10:36:39 AM

I love your optimism!! However, Look at the scores of the games MTU has played this year:

Not to be the pessimistic one again, but They have allowed 34 points over 10 games. 34!!! If St. Lawrence scores more than 3, I would consider the game an upset.

That's 10 more than they had allowed in 2007, and Ithaca then went out and put up 18. Stranger things, as they say
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 11:28:59 PM
Could be! I'm a little worried about St. Lawrence's propensity for mistake shown in the game with MMA which may doom them early.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Desertraider on November 17, 2015, 08:09:07 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 10:36:39 AM

I love your optimism!! However, Look at the scores of the games MTU has played this year:

Not to be the pessimistic one again, but They have allowed 34 points over 10 games. 34!!! If St. Lawrence scores more than 3, I would consider the game an upset.

That's 10 more than they had allowed in 2007, and Ithaca then went out and put up 18. Stranger things, as they say

If Ithaca puts 18 on the board against Mount on Saturday - I will eat my hat  ;D. The big difference in Mounts D recently is VK calling the shots. The D is much more aggressive under VK.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 17, 2015, 09:00:07 AM
Quote from: desertraider on November 17, 2015, 08:09:07 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 16, 2015, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 16, 2015, 10:36:39 AM

I love your optimism!! However, Look at the scores of the games MTU has played this year:

Not to be the pessimistic one again, but They have allowed 34 points over 10 games. 34!!! If St. Lawrence scores more than 3, I would consider the game an upset.

That's 10 more than they had allowed in 2007, and Ithaca then went out and put up 18. Stranger things, as they say

If Ithaca puts 18 on the board against Mount on Saturday - I will eat my hat  ;D. The big difference in Mounts D recently is VK calling the shots. The D is much more aggressive under VK.

If Ithaca puts anything on the board Saturday, we've got a problem.

Then again you could probably put Ithaca and SLU's offense on the field (at the same time) against the Mount defense, with two balls, and I'm not sure either would score.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: NED3Guy on November 21, 2015, 06:25:55 PM
All I could think of as I followed live stats today was that in two years there will be another New England conference AQ in the tournament.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 12:54:39 PM
Posted this on Pool C board but thought I'd throw it out here too. Did this w/o consulting Frank (who knows playoff selection criteria way better than I do). The below is just a hunch and the fact we've seen ERR that have teams from NE represented even though it obvious they probably would lose H2H to say a 6-2 Wesley, for example. Anyway...:

Should be interesting to see what comes out on Weds. My guess for ER would be something like this:

1. Alfred (highest SOS of 8-0 teams, arguably best conf, etc)
2. Stevenson 8-0 (better SOS than SLU)
3. SLU 8-0 (could see them lower bc of bad SOS but usually comm rewards 8-0 league leaders from the "top 4"
4. SJFC 7-1 (best SOS of 1 loss ER teams)
5. Hobart 7-1 (bc of high SOS)
6. Salisbury 7-1
7. Frostburg 7-1 (w. solid SOS of 115)
8. WNE 8-0 (maybe crazy bc of low SOS but have seen undefeated teams from NE get in Wk 10)
9. Salve 8-0 (see above)
10. Husson 6-1 (low SOS but only 7 point loss to #1 ALF gets them on board IMO)

Ironically only really two teams on this list has a Pool C shot (SLU, if the lose to HOB and beat WPI in Wk 11 to go 9-1 and ALF if they lose to SJF and end up 9-1 - even in that scenario, I could see SLU being left out bc of SOS).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 12:54:39 PM
Posted this on Pool C board but thought I'd throw it out here too. Did this w/o consulting Frank (who knows playoff selection criteria way better than I do). The below is just a hunch and the fact we've seen ERR that have teams from NE represented even though it obvious they probably would lose H2H to say a 6-2 Wesley, for example. Anyway...:

Should be interesting to see what comes out on Weds. My guess for ER would be something like this:

1. Alfred (highest SOS of 8-0 teams, arguably best conf, etc)
2. Stevenson 8-0 (better SOS than SLU)
3. SLU 8-0 (could see them lower bc of bad SOS but usually comm rewards 8-0 league leaders from the "top 4"
4. SJFC 7-1 (best SOS of 1 loss ER teams)
5. Hobart 7-1 (bc of high SOS)
6. Salisbury 7-1
7. Frostburg 7-1 (w. solid SOS of 115)
8. WNE 8-0 (maybe crazy bc of low SOS but have seen undefeated teams from NE get in Wk 10)
9. Salve 8-0 (see above)
10. Husson 6-1 (low SOS but only 7 point loss to #1 ALF gets them on board IMO)

Ironically only really two teams on this list has a Pool C shot (SLU, if the lose to HOB and beat WPI in Wk 11 to go 9-1 and ALF if they lose to SJF and end up 9-1 - even in that scenario, I could see SLU being left out bc of SOS).

Like it. Makes sense to me.  The east is going to have slim pickings for pool c if things play out with Wesley winning the AQ for NJAC by beating Salisbury, Salisbury beats Frostburg so both have 2 loses, Alfred wins E8 giving Fisher 2 loses, Salve or WNEW would be the best 1 loss team in the east.  If that is the case I could see the east not get any pool c picks with some much stronger teams around the country.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 12:54:39 PM
Posted this on Pool C board but thought I'd throw it out here too. Did this w/o consulting Frank (who knows playoff selection criteria way better than I do). The below is just a hunch and the fact we've seen ERR that have teams from NE represented even though it obvious they probably would lose H2H to say a 6-2 Wesley, for example. Anyway...:

Should be interesting to see what comes out on Weds. My guess for ER would be something like this:

1. Alfred (highest SOS of 8-0 teams, arguably best conf, etc)
2. Stevenson 8-0 (better SOS than SLU)
3. SLU 8-0 (could see them lower bc of bad SOS but usually comm rewards 8-0 league leaders from the "top 4"
4. SJFC 7-1 (best SOS of 1 loss ER teams)
5. Hobart 7-1 (bc of high SOS)
6. Salisbury 7-1
7. Frostburg 7-1 (w. solid SOS of 115)
8. WNE 8-0 (maybe crazy bc of low SOS but have seen undefeated teams from NE get in Wk 10)
9. Salve 8-0 (see above)
10. Husson 6-1 (low SOS but only 7 point loss to #1 ALF gets them on board IMO)

Ironically only really two teams on this list has a Pool C shot (SLU, if the lose to HOB and beat WPI in Wk 11 to go 9-1 and ALF if they lose to SJF and end up 9-1 - even in that scenario, I could see SLU being left out bc of SOS).

Like it. Makes sense to me.  The east is going to have slim pickings for pool c if things play out with Wesley winning the AQ for NJAC by beating Salisbury, Salisbury beats Frostburg so both have 2 loses, Alfred wins E8 giving Fisher 2 loses, Salve or WNEW would be the best 1 loss team in the east.  If that is the case I could see the east not get any pool c picks with some much stronger teams around the country.

In your scenario, I really don't think the East RAC would rank the 1-loss NEFC runner up ahead of any of those two loss teams, but especially SJF.  If the last two weeks play out as you've described, I think SJF is the top ranked at-large team in this region and if that's the case, they're going in.  I don't think they'd sit there for six rounds without winning the vote eventually. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 01, 2016, 03:17:00 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 12:54:39 PM
Posted this on Pool C board but thought I'd throw it out here too. Did this w/o consulting Frank (who knows playoff selection criteria way better than I do). The below is just a hunch and the fact we've seen ERR that have teams from NE represented even though it obvious they probably would lose H2H to say a 6-2 Wesley, for example. Anyway...:

Should be interesting to see what comes out on Weds. My guess for ER would be something like this:

1. Alfred (highest SOS of 8-0 teams, arguably best conf, etc)
2. Stevenson 8-0 (better SOS than SLU)
3. SLU 8-0 (could see them lower bc of bad SOS but usually comm rewards 8-0 league leaders from the "top 4"
4. SJFC 7-1 (best SOS of 1 loss ER teams)
5. Hobart 7-1 (bc of high SOS)
6. Salisbury 7-1
7. Frostburg 7-1 (w. solid SOS of 115)
8. WNE 8-0 (maybe crazy bc of low SOS but have seen undefeated teams from NE get in Wk 10)
9. Salve 8-0 (see above)
10. Husson 6-1 (low SOS but only 7 point loss to #1 ALF gets them on board IMO)

Ironically only really two teams on this list has a Pool C shot (SLU, if the lose to HOB and beat WPI in Wk 11 to go 9-1 and ALF if they lose to SJF and end up 9-1 - even in that scenario, I could see SLU being left out bc of SOS).

Like it. Makes sense to me.  The east is going to have slim pickings for pool c if things play out with Wesley winning the AQ for NJAC by beating Salisbury, Salisbury beats Frostburg so both have 2 loses, Alfred wins E8 giving Fisher 2 loses, Salve or WNEW would be the best 1 loss team in the east.  If that is the case I could see the east not get any pool c picks with some much stronger teams around the country.

In your scenario, I really don't think the East RAC would rank the 1-loss NEFC runner up ahead of any of those two loss teams, but especially SJF.  If the last two weeks play out as you've described, I think SJF is the top ranked at-large team in this region and if that's the case, they're going in.  I don't think they'd sit there for six rounds without winning the vote eventually.

I was thinking that possibility, especially since Olivet should provide another RRO.  And does that game count as "regional" due to proximity?  I always wonder whether a team's record will look wonky on the RR because of those OOC games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 03:23:17 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 01, 2016, 03:17:00 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 02:39:56 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 12:54:39 PM
Posted this on Pool C board but thought I'd throw it out here too. Did this w/o consulting Frank (who knows playoff selection criteria way better than I do). The below is just a hunch and the fact we've seen ERR that have teams from NE represented even though it obvious they probably would lose H2H to say a 6-2 Wesley, for example. Anyway...:

Should be interesting to see what comes out on Weds. My guess for ER would be something like this:

1. Alfred (highest SOS of 8-0 teams, arguably best conf, etc)
2. Stevenson 8-0 (better SOS than SLU)
3. SLU 8-0 (could see them lower bc of bad SOS but usually comm rewards 8-0 league leaders from the "top 4"
4. SJFC 7-1 (best SOS of 1 loss ER teams)
5. Hobart 7-1 (bc of high SOS)
6. Salisbury 7-1
7. Frostburg 7-1 (w. solid SOS of 115)
8. WNE 8-0 (maybe crazy bc of low SOS but have seen undefeated teams from NE get in Wk 10)
9. Salve 8-0 (see above)
10. Husson 6-1 (low SOS but only 7 point loss to #1 ALF gets them on board IMO)

Ironically only really two teams on this list has a Pool C shot (SLU, if the lose to HOB and beat WPI in Wk 11 to go 9-1 and ALF if they lose to SJF and end up 9-1 - even in that scenario, I could see SLU being left out bc of SOS).

Like it. Makes sense to me.  The east is going to have slim pickings for pool c if things play out with Wesley winning the AQ for NJAC by beating Salisbury, Salisbury beats Frostburg so both have 2 loses, Alfred wins E8 giving Fisher 2 loses, Salve or WNEW would be the best 1 loss team in the east.  If that is the case I could see the east not get any pool c picks with some much stronger teams around the country.

In your scenario, I really don't think the East RAC would rank the 1-loss NEFC runner up ahead of any of those two loss teams, but especially SJF.  If the last two weeks play out as you've described, I think SJF is the top ranked at-large team in this region and if that's the case, they're going in.  I don't think they'd sit there for six rounds without winning the vote eventually.

I was thinking that possibility, especially since Olivet should provide another RRO.  And does that game count as "regional" due to proximity?  I always wonder whether a team's record will look wonky on the RR because of those OOC games.

I believe all D3 games count as in-region as long as 3/4 of a team's games are regional by definition (so within 200 miles OR in the same geographic region OR in the same administrative region).  They've made it so that it's actually super hard to not have a game count as in-region, which is good.  We don't have so few data points in football as is that we don't need to go throwing out results because of arbitrary regional boundaries. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HansenRatings on November 01, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 03:23:17 PM
I believe all D3 games count as in-region as long as 3/4 of a team's games are regional by definition (so within 200 miles OR in the same geographic region OR in the same administrative region).  They've made it so that it's actually super hard to not have a game count as in-region, which is good.  We don't have so few data points in football as is that we don't need to go throwing out results because of arbitrary regional boundaries.

I think it's actually that team's are only eligible for post-season competition as long as they have 70% of their games against regional opponents, and all DIII teams are considered "regional opponents" for football.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: HansenRatings on November 01, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 03:23:17 PM
I believe all D3 games count as in-region as long as 3/4 of a team's games are regional by definition (so within 200 miles OR in the same geographic region OR in the same administrative region).  They've made it so that it's actually super hard to not have a game count as in-region, which is good.  We don't have so few data points in football as is that we don't need to go throwing out results because of arbitrary regional boundaries.

I think it's actually that team's are only eligible for post-season competition as long as they have 70% of their games against regional opponents, and all DIII teams are considered "regional opponents" for football.

No, Wally is correct. As long as 70% of your games are vs. games that are in your region, then you can have all of your games vs. D-III opponents count as regional games. Or you can get a waiver. In any case, it's really rare that you don't meet that threshold.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 01, 2016, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: HansenRatings on November 01, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 03:23:17 PM
I believe all D3 games count as in-region as long as 3/4 of a team's games are regional by definition (so within 200 miles OR in the same geographic region OR in the same administrative region).  They've made it so that it's actually super hard to not have a game count as in-region, which is good.  We don't have so few data points in football as is that we don't need to go throwing out results because of arbitrary regional boundaries.

I think it's actually that team's are only eligible for post-season competition as long as they have 70% of their games against regional opponents, and all DIII teams are considered "regional opponents" for football.



No, Wally is correct. As long as 70% of your games are vs. games that are in your region, then you can have all of your games vs. D-III opponents count as regional games. Or you can get a waiver. In any case, it's really rare that you don't meet that threshold.

Pat, what rare occasion has a team not met that percentage and had to obtain a waiver? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2016, 04:00:39 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 01, 2016, 03:53:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: HansenRatings on November 01, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 03:23:17 PM
I believe all D3 games count as in-region as long as 3/4 of a team's games are regional by definition (so within 200 miles OR in the same geographic region OR in the same administrative region).  They've made it so that it's actually super hard to not have a game count as in-region, which is good.  We don't have so few data points in football as is that we don't need to go throwing out results because of arbitrary regional boundaries.

I think it's actually that team's are only eligible for post-season competition as long as they have 70% of their games against regional opponents, and all DIII teams are considered "regional opponents" for football.



No, Wally is correct. As long as 70% of your games are vs. games that are in your region, then you can have all of your games vs. D-III opponents count as regional games. Or you can get a waiver. In any case, it's really rare that you don't meet that threshold.

Pat, what rare occasion has a team not met that percentage and had to obtain a waiver?

Oh, well, any Wesley team pre-NJAC comes immediately to mind. Currently our indepdents would need to do that as well.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
I agree that even if Fisher ends up 8-2 they'll be in consideration. We learned from our interview last season with Director McKieran that RPI (who went 8-2) was basically on the board for at least a couple of rounds and just missed the cut late.

Also wouldn't be the first time an 8-2 Fisher squad got in when they didn't have a 9-1 record like some other teams from other regions bc of their SOS numbers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 01, 2016, 04:05:53 PM
Wesley pre-NJAC.  I feel like that statement is more applicable in basketball (and other sports maybe) than it is in football.  I know sometimes the MIAA hoops teams load up their non-league schedules with nearby NAIAs and wind up with a limited number of D3 opponents.  One thing to keep in mind with selection/seeding criteria is that the NCAA likes uniformity across all of their championships, so the selection criteria is the same from sport to sport.  What you wind up with is a set of criteria that sort of works ok for all of the sports, but is ideal for none of the sports.  I think it's ok to acknowledge that the different sports ought to have different criteria catered to each specific sport, but the NCAA hasn't asked for my opinion.   :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HansenRatings on November 01, 2016, 04:20:50 PM
The manual says "to be eligible for selection," and then the primary criteria says that all DIII games are considered.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfAQmDKY.png&hash=68cb9c5cabf4b8f7ee7ca0f36f3358769db8b514)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfuEO7Jy.png&hash=94751931b214007de3255c17682248fa154965b2)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2016, 04:34:59 PM
I kind of think you're trying to parse two similar phrasings of the same thing, but hey, have fun.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 01, 2016, 05:03:40 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 01, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
I agree that even if Fisher ends up 8-2 they'll be in consideration. We learned from our interview last season with Director McKieran that RPI (who went 8-2) was basically on the board for at least a couple of rounds and just missed the cut late.

Also wouldn't be the first time an 8-2 Fisher squad got in when they didn't have a 9-1 record like some other teams from other regions bc of their SOS numbers.

Wouldn't be the second time either!

Personally I think it's going to be the 4th time they'll be going in at 9-1, but that's just me!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 05:44:58 PM
Without looking too deeply, here's my thought on how tomorrow will look.  Note the major SOS difference between SLU/WNEU/Salve and Fisher/Hobart/Salisbury.  The RPI common result was close for both Hobart and SLU despite a W vs. a L.  It's razor thin between them.

1) Alfred
2) Stevenson
3) Fisher
4) Hobart
5) SLU
6) Salisbury
7) WNEU
8) Salve
9) Wesley
10) Frostburg
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 01, 2016, 06:56:23 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 05:44:58 PM
Without looking too deeply, here's my thought on how tomorrow will look.  Note the major SOS difference between SLU/WNEU/Salve and Fisher/Hobart/Salisbury.  The RPI common result was close for both Hobart and SLU despite a W vs. a L.  It's razor thin between them.

1) Alfred
2) Stevenson
3) Fisher
4) Hobart
5) SLU
6) Salisbury
7) WNEU
8) Salve
9) Wesley
10) Frostburg

Refresh my memory, but doesn't the NCAA love ranking undefeated New England teams higher than 1 loss NY/PA/MD/NJ teams in late season rankings?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3pc on November 01, 2016, 08:19:26 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 05:44:58 PM
Without looking too deeply, here's my thought on how tomorrow will look.  Note the major SOS difference between SLU/WNEU/Salve and Fisher/Hobart/Salisbury.  The RPI common result was close for both Hobart and SLU despite a W vs. a L.  It's razor thin between them.

1) Alfred
2) Stevenson
3) Fisher
4) Hobart
5) SLU
6) Salisbury
7) WNEU
8) Salve
9) Wesley
10) Frostburg

I get the reasoning and I expect a very close game, but against 5 mutual opponents SLU is 5-0 and +92 against Hobart who is 4-1 and +30. Would be very surprised to see Hobart ahead of this week before the big matchup.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 09:14:12 PM
We're going to learn a decent amount as to how this East RAC will operate, and it might reflect National Committee instructions concerning the importance of SOS.  For instance, the difference between Hobart and SLU is 0.099 (0.571 vs. 0.472).  Historically we've been told that 0.100 differences (give or take) will be significant enough to overcome an extra loss by the team with stronger SOS.  However, the common opponents issue is usually not as prevalent in such comparisons.  Thankfully, we'll have a head-to-head result to go by in a few days.  They might choose to order the teams with SLU above Hobart just because of the impending result, but a different ordering should be looked at as a clue as to SOS importance. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 09:14:12 PM
We're going to learn a decent amount as to how this East RAC will operate, and it might reflect National Committee instructions concerning the importance of SOS.  For instance, the difference between Hobart and SLU is 0.099 (0.571 vs. 0.472).  Historically we've been told that 0.100 differences (give or take) will be significant enough to overcome an extra loss by the team with stronger SOS.  However, the common opponents issue is usually not as prevalent in such comparisons.  Thankfully, we'll have a head-to-head result to go by in a few days.  They might choose to order the teams with SLU above Hobart just because of the impending result, but a different ordering should be looked at as a clue as to SOS importance.

If they play in the same league how are the SOS so far apart.  Sorry, I did not look at who they played OOC, but that seems huge.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2016, 08:25:39 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 09:14:12 PM
We're going to learn a decent amount as to how this East RAC will operate, and it might reflect National Committee instructions concerning the importance of SOS.  For instance, the difference between Hobart and SLU is 0.099 (0.571 vs. 0.472).  Historically we've been told that 0.100 differences (give or take) will be significant enough to overcome an extra loss by the team with stronger SOS.  However, the common opponents issue is usually not as prevalent in such comparisons.  Thankfully, we'll have a head-to-head result to go by in a few days.  They might choose to order the teams with SLU above Hobart just because of the impending result, but a different ordering should be looked at as a clue as to SOS importance.

If they play in the same league how are the SOS so far apart.  Sorry, I did not look at who they played OOC, but that seems huge.

3 non league games makes the SOS look pretty reasonable.  Hobart playing Brockport and Ithaca while SLU played Norwich and Morrisville (they both played Endicott).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 02, 2016, 08:32:47 AM
Two of SLU'S OCC are Mo State and Norwich. Cadets are 4-4 but Stangs are either 0-fer or 1-7 which hurts. HOB has benefit of beating Brockport and IC as well as WPI who has 5 wins also (Saints play Engineers in Wk 11 which will boost their SOS since WPI will probably be 6-3 going into that game).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 02, 2016, 08:56:51 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 08:25:39 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 01, 2016, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 01, 2016, 09:14:12 PM
We're going to learn a decent amount as to how this East RAC will operate, and it might reflect National Committee instructions concerning the importance of SOS.  For instance, the difference between Hobart and SLU is 0.099 (0.571 vs. 0.472).  Historically we've been told that 0.100 differences (give or take) will be significant enough to overcome an extra loss by the team with stronger SOS.  However, the common opponents issue is usually not as prevalent in such comparisons.  Thankfully, we'll have a head-to-head result to go by in a few days.  They might choose to order the teams with SLU above Hobart just because of the impending result, but a different ordering should be looked at as a clue as to SOS importance.
If they play in the same league how are the SOS so far apart.  Sorry, I did not look at who they played OOC, but that seems huge.

3 non league games makes the SOS look pretty reasonable.  Hobart playing Brockport and Ithaca while SLU played Norwich and Morrisville (they both played Endicott).

Thanks for the info.  Yes, MoVille is killing SLU.  Ithaca winning games surely helps Hobart.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 09:43:31 AM
SLU's SOS will improve probably to the 0.510 range soon, as they add Hobart (and Hobart's strong OWP into their OOWP) and WPI into their SOS over the next two weeks.  If Hobart beats SLU, this is crucial as being on the board first in the East as a Pool C candidate is likely the only way to have a serious chance to be selected.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 10:34:18 AM
So ,are we saying if Hobart beats SLU(and beats Rochester ) that the Saints still have a decent chance for a Pool C if they beat WPI (SLU SOS improves dramatically) as a one loss team?
And it also seems obvious that if SLU beats Hobart and WPI(thus proving their virility)that they will get a winnable first round opponent and maybe two,  and Hobart can kiss their *** goodbye and get ready for next year? I personally think Hobart is a dangerous matchup for any of the Eastern teams , if they get that far.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 02, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
I think Albright may sneak into the rankings. They have played two 1st place teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:11:15 AM
Bartman -

Here's my view of the world:

1) If SLU loses to Hobart and beats WPI, there is a risk that the NJAC runner-up will be ahead of them (especially if that team is one-loss Frostburg).  A lot of that will come down to SOS and Wesley's vs. Hobart's status in such a situation.  The risk is a real one, and again, if you're second on the board in the East for Pool C consideration -- and I would assume Wally would agree -- your chances for selection are virtually nil.

2) If SLU beats Hobart and WPI, it's crucial to try to be one of the top 8 teams in the Committee's view nationally.  The Committee will try to get the "1's" and the "2's" to opposite ends of quarter-brackets.  The likelihood is that Mount Union, UW-Whitewater, Mary Hardin-Baylor, and one other team will be #1 seeds.  The one other team issue is interesting.  Alfred and Stevenson are ahead of teams like St. Thomas in SOS figures, but the profile of teams other undefeateds have played will hurt the East teams' chances.  Either way, if SLU can get a #2 seed, they would able to have three rounds against teams that aren't #1 seeds.  A lot depends on where their SOS lands and if Hobart stays in the East Region poll.  Otherwise, a bunch of one-loss teams nationally would supplant them, forcing a rough Second Round match-up.  Long story short, SLU needs that SOS to increase and Hobart to stay ranked.  Even if Hobart stays ranked and somehow is the best Pool C candidate in the East with two losses, UW-Platteville sits there in the West as likely the only two-loss team worthy of legitimate consideration -- yes, Hobart can pack it in at two losses, I think.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 11:15:31 AM
Frank,
If Fisher goes 8-2 do they get the nod for pool c?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 11:15:31 AM
Frank,
If Fisher goes 8-2 do they get the nod for pool c?

Unlikely with this number of one-loss teams and Platteville hanging around.  Utica would have to be ranked to give them a better chance.  It could change if one-loss candidates begin to drop games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2016, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 11:15:31 AM
Frank,
If Fisher goes 8-2 do they get the nod for pool c?

Unlikely with this number of one-loss teams and Platteville hanging around.  Utica would have to be ranked to give them a better chance.  It could change if one-loss candidates begin to drop games.

Frank when you say "ranked", are you talking about the second to last week NCAA region poll?  (Assuming they can't use the "final" rankings because those don't come out)

I guess what I'm asking is that when you use the criteria "wins vs. ranked opponents" what ranking from what dates do they use? 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 02, 2016, 11:27:30 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:11:15 AM
Bartman -

Here's my view of the world:

1) If SLU loses to Hobart and beats WPI, there is a risk that the NJAC runner-up will be ahead of them (especially if that team is one-loss Frostburg).  A lot of that will come down to SOS and Wesley's vs. Hobart's status in such a situation.  The risk is a real one, and again, if you're second on the board in the East for Pool C consideration -- and I would assume Wally would agree -- your chances for selection are virtually nil.

Yeah, co-sign on this.  If we're going to assume that the E8 runner up, whether it's Alfred or SJF, is going to be the highest ranked at-large team from this region, then I think it's difficult for the second highest ranked team to get in.  Without doing a super deep dive on Alfred's profile, my knee-jerk thought here is that the order of the Pool C's would go something like this:
1- Oshkosh
2- HSU/ETBU winner
3- Wheaton
4- St. John's

So that's four off and we haven't touched the East yet.  If CWRU gets to 10-0, they're going in somewhere early as well.  So we could have as many as five of the Pool C's gone before SJF or Alfred goes in.  Alfred might have a shot at going in before St. John's, actually.  Whatever the case, we're either out of Pool C's entirely at this point or St. Lawrence comes to the table in Round 5 (probably best case scenario) or Round 6.  And without an RRO win and kind of a meh SOS, I don't think they'd get selected.  Not impossible because they'd at least be in the discussion, but definitely not likely. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 02, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 11:15:31 AM
Frank,
If Fisher goes 8-2 do they get the nod for pool c?

Unlikely with this number of one-loss teams and Platteville hanging around.  Utica would have to be ranked to give them a better chance.  It could change if one-loss candidates begin to drop games.

Frank when you say "ranked", are you talking about the second to last week NCAA region poll?  (Assuming they can't use the "final" rankings because those don't come out)

I guess what I'm asking is that when you use the criteria "wins vs. ranked opponents" what ranking from what dates do they use?

Ranked opponents are going to come from the double secret final rankings that don't get published.  We kind of have to guess at what those look like. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 02, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 11:15:31 AM
Frank,
If Fisher goes 8-2 do they get the nod for pool c?

Unlikely with this number of one-loss teams and Platteville hanging around.  Utica would have to be ranked to give them a better chance.  It could change if one-loss candidates begin to drop games.

Frank when you say "ranked", are you talking about the second to last week NCAA region poll?  (Assuming they can't use the "final" rankings because those don't come out)

I guess what I'm asking is that when you use the criteria "wins vs. ranked opponents" what ranking from what dates do they use?

Ranked opponents are going to come from the double secret final rankings that don't get published.  We kind of have to guess at what those look like.

You are kidding me?  I honestly didn't expect that as an answer.  That kind of clouds the entire process doesn't it in terms of "criteria"?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 02, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 02, 2016, 11:29:39 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 02, 2016, 11:15:31 AM
Frank,
If Fisher goes 8-2 do they get the nod for pool c?

Unlikely with this number of one-loss teams and Platteville hanging around.  Utica would have to be ranked to give them a better chance.  It could change if one-loss candidates begin to drop games.

Frank when you say "ranked", are you talking about the second to last week NCAA region poll?  (Assuming they can't use the "final" rankings because those don't come out)

I guess what I'm asking is that when you use the criteria "wins vs. ranked opponents" what ranking from what dates do they use?

Ranked opponents are going to come from the double secret final rankings that don't get published.  We kind of have to guess at what those look like.

You are kidding me?  I honestly didn't expect that as an answer.  That kind of clouds the entire process doesn't it in terms of "criteria"?

Yes it does. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 12:32:37 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:11:15 AM
Bartman -

Here's my view of the world:

1) If SLU loses to Hobart and beats WPI, there is a risk that the NJAC runner-up will be ahead of them (especially if that team is one-loss Frostburg).  A lot of that will come down to SOS and Wesley's vs. Hobart's status in such a situation.  The risk is a real one, and again, if you're second on the board in the East for Pool C consideration -- and I would assume Wally would agree -- your chances for selection are virtually nil.

2) If SLU beats Hobart and WPI, it's crucial to try to be one of the top 8 teams in the Committee's view nationally.  The Committee will try to get the "1's" and the "2's" to opposite ends of quarter-brackets.  The likelihood is that Mount Union, UW-Whitewater, Mary Hardin-Baylor, and one other team will be #1 seeds.  The one other team issue is interesting.  Alfred and Stevenson are ahead of teams like St. Thomas in SOS figures, but the profile of teams other undefeateds have played will hurt the East teams' chances.  Either way, if SLU can get a #2 seed, they would able to have three rounds against teams that aren't #1 seeds.  A lot depends on where their SOS lands and if Hobart stays in the East Region poll.  Otherwise, a bunch of one-loss teams nationally would supplant them, forcing a rough Second Round match-up.  Long story short, SLU needs that SOS to increase and Hobart to stay ranked.  Even if Hobart stays ranked and somehow is the best Pool C candidate in the East with two losses, UW-Platteville sits there in the West as likely the only two-loss team worthy of legitimate consideration -- yes, Hobart can pack it in at two losses, I think.
Thanks Frank, +k for the analysis, now hoping your Statesmen pick over the Larries is right, if not ,I will root for the Larries as far as they can go
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 02, 2016, 12:43:40 PM
I did a deep dive into the stats for the HOB vs. SLU game on the gohobart.blogspot.com site. The numbers point to SLU but it's hard to say if it'll pan out that way given the Statesmen's long term dominance in this rivalry. Richardson is way more mobile than Lefflbine and the Hobart ILB's aren't as good as last season's group which guys like Gallagher could exploit. But, like Frank said on ITH, SLU hasn't played a passing offense like this one and last year's game was one were neither team really could run much so I think if it comes down to Sweeney having the ball in the 4th qtr, Hobart could stun the Saints yet again.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on November 02, 2016, 02:08:47 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 02, 2016, 12:43:40 PM
I did a deep dive into the stats for the HOB vs. SLU game on the gohobart.blogspot.com site. The numbers point to SLU but it's hard to say if it'll pan out that way given the Statesmen's long term dominance in this rivalry. Richardson is way more mobile than Lefflbine and the Hobart ILB's aren't as good as last season's group which guys like Gallagher could exploit. But, like Frank said on ITH, SLU hasn't played a passing offense like this one and last year's game was one were neither team really could run much so I think if it comes down to Sweeney having the ball in the 4th qtr, Hobart could stun the Saints yet again.

Top notch analysis.  I knew that SLU's defense was stout, but that is impressive.  Hobart clearly is coming in as at least a slight-to-moderate underdog, on the road.  But I have a sneaking suspicion that they are just due.  I know that wins are wins, and what matter most.  But they haven't really put together a complete game since Ithaca in September.  Lots of close games, some unnecessarily so.  If they play poorly, it could be a really long day.  But I think they may go get this one.

I am also very interested to see what goes on with Alfred this week.  How they do will dictate a lot about their playoff possibilities, and I think Utica is dangerous.  Two high quality wins in a row over (1) SJF and (2) a tougher-than-their-record Buff State team.  Good stuff on tap! 

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1
7   Albright   6-2   6-2
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 02, 2016, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1
7   Albright   6-2   6-2
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/d3/regional-rankings

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2016/first-regional-ranking
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 02, 2016, 03:25:33 PM
Spent the time typing it up and got the "new replies" since you posted notification seeing that Bartman beat me to the punch by seconds. 

I'm furious with Bartman.  Discuss...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 02, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1
7   Albright   6-2   6-2
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1

Frank was really close:

1) Alfred - check
2) Stevenson - check
3) Fisher - check (shows SOS and Olivet win weighing in)
4) Hobart - overestimated Hobart's SOS vs. a Salisbury / NJAC preference perhaps?)
5) SLU - check
6) Salisbury - flip with Bart
7) WNEU - overestimated a bit but they still made the board so check see below re Albright
8) Salve - miss
9) Wesley - check and pretty close to 8 so I'll give it to him
10) Frostburg - check

Damn - really nailed it save for Albright which is 0-2 vs RROs which seems like a bad pick IMO
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 02, 2016, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
I think Albright may sneak into the rankings. They have played two 1st place teams.

I had a gut feeling Albright was going to jump in there with two losses to both Stevenson and Salisbury.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 02, 2016, 03:25:33 PM
Spent the time typing it up and got the "new replies" since you posted notification seeing that Bartman beat me to the punch by seconds. 

I'm furious with Bartman.  Discuss...
Chill booby.....copy and paste is faster ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 02, 2016, 03:35:58 PM
Seems like a double counting to me on Albright. Glad to see WNEU on the board. Say what you want re NE teams but I think they deserve to be there. Kind of surprised Husson isn't but the ECFC SOS numbers kill them. I think they'll a tough out for someone in Rd 1.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 02, 2016, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 02, 2016, 03:35:58 PM
Seems like a double counting to me on Albright. Glad to see WNEU on the board. Say what you want re NE teams but I think they deserve to be there. Kind of surprised Husson isn't but the ECFC SOS numbers kill them. I think they'll a tough out for someone in Rd 1.

For the same logic that Albright is in, Husson should be considered.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
I think Albright may sneak into the rankings. They have played two 1st place teams.

I had a gut feeling Albright was going to jump in there with two losses to both Stevenson and Salisbury.

This always bothers me.  The SOS already takes into account that Albright played very good teams.  It's one thing if they beat one of them, and that's what RRO numbers intend to capture above and beyond SOS numbers.  And it sort of creates a circularity whereby Salisbury benefits in beating Albright to look better with only a moderate SOS figure.  If Albright remained unranked, then Salisbury likely belonged below SLU & Hobart.  Now, Wesley/Salisbury has a really big effect on these rankings more than I originally thought.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 02, 2016, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.

Interested to see what people think about a Salisbury, Fisher and Hobart loss, does Albright jump all of them, or do they stay behind Salisbury due to the H2H result.  If it plays out that way is Salisbury the first team up if they beat Frostburg in the last week.  All of the teams will have 2 losses with Salisbury having a pretty strong SOS since they play both Wesley and Frostburg which will likely raise theirs above Fisher, Hobart, and Albright.  If that happens, the East could be in trouble, but Salisbury's resume would look pretty good, strong SOS and 2 - 1 record against RR teams.  Fun, Fun, Fun.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 02, 2016, 06:46:23 PM
I haven't run the numbers but I don't think Salisbury is going to top Fisher in SOS, even after Hartwick and their abysmal record comes into the equation.  Finishing the season against currently undefeated Alfred is only going to provide a further boost. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 02, 2016, 07:07:12 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:29:50 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 10:50:16 AM
I think Albright may sneak into the rankings. They have played two 1st place teams.

I had a gut feeling Albright was going to jump in there with two losses to both Stevenson and Salisbury.

This always bothers me.  The SOS already takes into account that Albright played very good teams.  It's one thing if they beat one of them, and that's what RRO numbers intend to capture above and beyond SOS numbers.  And it sort of creates a circularity whereby Salisbury benefits in beating Albright to look better with only a moderate SOS figure.  If Albright remained unranked, then Salisbury likely belonged below SLU & Hobart.  Now, Wesley/Salisbury has a really big effect on these rankings more than I originally thought.

Agree.  SOS and RESULTS (not just wins) against ranked opponents being separate criteria is double counting and creates a rich-get-richer scenario. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 02, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.

After what I'm learning today, Husson doesn't need to be ranked.  These rankings are just teams the NCAA needs to justify pool C rankings for results from the last two weeks. WNEC has to be ranked because if Salve beats them, Salve gets in anyway, if Salve loses, they weren't ranked anyway so the pool C is not in reach.  If Husson loses, it puts to bed any thought of them getting a pool C because they weren't ranked to begin with as well.  They have the pool A and that is it.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 02, 2016, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.

After what I'm learning today, Husson doesn't need to be ranked.  These rankings are just teams the NCAA needs to justify pool C rankings for results from the last two weeks. WNEC has to be ranked because if Salve beats them, Salve gets in anyway, if Salve loses, they weren't ranked anyway so the pool C is not in reach.  If Husson loses, it puts to bed any thought of them getting a pool C because they weren't ranked to begin with as well.  They have the pool A and that is it.

Um, not really, but sort of.

You are correct that the RR's are essentially irrelevant for Husson.  They would not get a Pool C bid with a loss, and did not play any o butf the other top teams so there's not even a domino effect elsewhere.

Realistically, the East has at most two or three Pool C chances: the Alfred/St. John Fisher loser, the St. Larry/Hobart loser, and maybe someone from the NJAC triumvirate.  The next few weeks will have plenty of games that affect these rankings, but I honestly don't see any more than one Pool C team from the East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 02, 2016, 11:31:15 PM
There are only nine days left in the season as of the end of Thursday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 03, 2016, 09:53:04 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 02, 2016, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.

After what I'm learning today, Husson doesn't need to be ranked.  These rankings are just teams the NCAA needs to justify pool C rankings for results from the last two weeks. WNEC has to be ranked because if Salve beats them, Salve gets in anyway, if Salve loses, they weren't ranked anyway so the pool C is not in reach.  If Husson loses, it puts to bed any thought of them getting a pool C because they weren't ranked to begin with as well.  They have the pool A and that is it.

Um, not really, but sort of.

You are correct that the RR's are essentially irrelevant for Husson.  They would not get a Pool C bid with a loss, and did not play any o butf the other top teams so there's not even a domino effect elsewhere.

Realistically, the East has at most two or three Pool C chances: the Alfred/St. John Fisher loser, the St. Larry/Hobart loser, and maybe someone from the NJAC triumvirate.  The next few weeks will have plenty of games that affect these rankings, but I honestly don't see any more than one Pool C team from the East.

ExTartan,

I agree with you wholly regarding Husson taking that second loss and being a "no shot" at Pool C. However, both Husson and Norwich have schedule outside of the NE and I think that is what it is going to take for the North Eastern teams to become better and hopefully get some recruits here and there to help get over the hump.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 04, 2016, 11:44:51 AM
I was interested in the performance of the major conferences in the East in the Playoffs by opponent final D3.com rankings...records last five years(**revised after I missed Salisbury as part of E8 in 2011 Playoffs):

            Conference                      MAC             LL            E8             NJAC         Wesley        All
                                                                                                                    (2011-14)
Top 10 Playoff Record(2011-15)      0 - 4            1- 5          1- 7            0-5            3-4          5- 25

Top 11-25                                     3 - 2            1-0           5- 0            1- 0          4-0           14-3

Got some poll votes                       0 - 0            2- 0          1- 0            1- 0          1- 0            4-0

Unranked(No votes)                       3- 0            1- 0          2- 0             3- 0          2- 0          11-0

Total                                             6- 6             5- 5          9- 7             5- 5          10-4        35-28

AVG Pts Loss  (Final Thumping)        35                25.6       18.8             26            -

I really did this to see how the conferences performed in the playoffs , plus I am feeling the LL gets downgraded a bit
and I wanted to see if the results warranted it. The E8 has the best record(only conference over .500) followed by the LL, MAC and NJAC. Now with Wesley in the NJAC(if Wesley performs at Historic levels) they should be the better performing conference.
Essentially, without Wesley, only Hobart and Salisbury had Playoff wins against a top 10 opponent(Bart beat John's Hopkins only #10 in final 2014 poll and Salisbury beat Kean, also #10 in 2011 ), but the region held serve pretty well below the top 10 over the last 5 years(MAC had two losses and NJAC one in the 11-25 opponent ranking). For teams that flowed from the E8 to the NJAC(Cortland , Salisbury) I counted their performance in the conference at the time.  For what it's worth.........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: sjfcards on November 04, 2016, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 02, 2016, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.

After what I'm learning today, Husson doesn't need to be ranked.  These rankings are just teams the NCAA needs to justify pool C rankings for results from the last two weeks. WNEC has to be ranked because if Salve beats them, Salve gets in anyway, if Salve loses, they weren't ranked anyway so the pool C is not in reach.  If Husson loses, it puts to bed any thought of them getting a pool C because they weren't ranked to begin with as well.  They have the pool A and that is it.

Um, not really, but sort of.

You are correct that the RR's are essentially irrelevant for Husson.  They would not get a Pool C bid with a loss, and did not play any o butf the other top teams so there's not even a domino effect elsewhere.

Realistically, the East has at most two or three Pool C chances: the Alfred/St. John Fisher loser, the St. Larry/Hobart loser, and maybe someone from the NJAC triumvirate.  The next few weeks will have plenty of games that affect these rankings, but I honestly don't see any more than one Pool C team from the East.

You guys know way more about this than I do, so if Fisher loses to Alfred what are the realistic chances they get in? I have always sort of assumed the 2nd loss was a death blow to most teams, but I know Fisher has gotten in with 2 losses before. This year they get help from Olivet winning a bunch of games, but if they lose to Alfred, I feel like that loss to Utica would be too much to overcome. Maybe if AU beats Utica this weekend, and some of the other games work out in their favor...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 04, 2016, 02:04:59 PM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 04, 2016, 11:51:24 AM
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 02, 2016, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 02, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 02, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 02, 2016, 03:22:18 PM
Here you go, East RR as of 11/2


1   Alfred   8-0   8-0 -  0-0 RRO
2   Stevenson   8-0   8-0  - 1-0 RRO
3   St. John Fisher   7-1   7-1  - 1-0 RRO
4   Salisbury   7-1   7-1 - 1-0 RRO
5   St. Lawrence   8-0   8-0 0-0 RRO
6   Hobart   7-1   7-1 - 0-0 RR0
7   Albright   6-2   6-2 - 0-2 RRO
8   Wesley   6-2   6-2 - 1-0 RRO
9   Western New England   8-0   8-0 - 0-0 RRO
10   Frostburg State   7-1   7-1 - 0-1 RRO

I agree Husson SOS really did them in, I think that their was some subjectivity when selecting that 10th place team. Without Frostburg in the ranking, Wesley would not benefited from their win over Frostburg. I have no problem with the current rankings, it does gives us an idea that the committee is looking at SOS.

After what I'm learning today, Husson doesn't need to be ranked.  These rankings are just teams the NCAA needs to justify pool C rankings for results from the last two weeks. WNEC has to be ranked because if Salve beats them, Salve gets in anyway, if Salve loses, they weren't ranked anyway so the pool C is not in reach.  If Husson loses, it puts to bed any thought of them getting a pool C because they weren't ranked to begin with as well.  They have the pool A and that is it.

Um, not really, but sort of.

You are correct that the RR's are essentially irrelevant for Husson.  They would not get a Pool C bid with a loss, and did not play any o butf the other top teams so there's not even a domino effect elsewhere.

Realistically, the East has at most two or three Pool C chances: the Alfred/St. John Fisher loser, the St. Larry/Hobart loser, and maybe someone from the NJAC triumvirate.  The next few weeks will have plenty of games that affect these rankings, but I honestly don't see any more than one Pool C team from the East.

You guys know way more about this than I do, so if Fisher loses to Alfred what are the realistic chances they get in? I have always sort of assumed the 2nd loss was a death blow to most teams, but I know Fisher has gotten in with 2 losses before. This year they get help from Olivet winning a bunch of games, but if they lose to Alfred, I feel like that loss to Utica would be too much to overcome. Maybe if AU beats Utica this weekend, and some of the other games work out in their favor...

It really depends entirely on what happens in the rest of the region and whether or not a team with two losses can have enough shine on their profile (high SOS, wins vs RROs) to be ranked highly- preferably the highest ranked at-large team in the region.  If SJF does lose to Alfred, you'll want to pay attention to where SJF is ranked which will give you a good idea if they can get in or not. 

And now I realize that we won't know for sure where SJF is ranked after the Alfred game because those rankings are classified.  My gut feeling here is that there are two things that would prevent SJF from being the top ranked at-large team in the East region:

St. Lawrence loses to Hobart

and

Alfred really, really hammers SJF.  Like in the 4+ score range. 

If those things don't happen, I think SJF is the highest rated at-large team in the East region and I think they'd go in.  I don't see how they could be passed over for 6 full rounds of selections with that SOS and (at least) one RRO win. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 04, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
That's what we in the East call a "monkeystomp"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 04, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 04, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
That's what we in the East call a "monkeystomp"

The WikiLLPPedia still exists!

Quote from: labart96 on November 02, 2007, 03:58:00 PM
TGP will take that bait.  Here's a few that come to mind right off the bat:

"Monkey-Stomp":  Defeating an opposing football team by 21 points or more.

"Double Monkey-Stomp":  42 pt victory

"Hot Like Pee":  Will let Gro definie this one

"Zing!":  Statement made to indicate a great insult/put-down (made in jest) towards another poster

"That's How I Roll":  Indication of how a poster comports oneself

"Shoeapalooza":  Annual Rivalry game between RPI and Union

"Cat Turd Bowl":  Annual game between RPI and Hobart (if played in late October or early November it becomes the "Frozen Cat Turd Bowl"

"Herbs":  Term used to describe nerds or others not agreement with a posters prognostications

"Ya Heard?":  Verifying that other posters understand your prior statement

"Bizaro-neers":  Nick name for the WPI Engineers

"Kinger or Stinger":  Nick name for RPI Head Coach Joe King

"HollaDawg":  A regular LLPP poster that has been AWOL for about 1-2 years and counting.   Where oh where has my HollaDawg gone?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 04, 2016, 09:47:21 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 04, 2016, 11:44:51 AM
I was interested in the performance of the major conferences in the East in the Playoffs by opponent final D3.com rankings...records last five years:

            Conference                      MAC             LL            E8             NJAC         Wesley        All
                                                                                                                    (2011-14)
Top 10 Playoff Record(2011-15)      0 - 4            1- 5          0- 6            0-5            3-4         4- 24

Top 11-25                                     3 - 2            1-0           5- 0            1- 1          4-0          14-3

Got some poll votes                       0 - 0            2- 0          1- 0            1- 0          1- 0           4-0

Unranked(No votes)                       3- 0            1- 0          1- 0             3- 0          2- 0          10-0

Total                                             6- 6             5- 5          7- 6             5- 6          10-4         33-27

AVG Pts Loss  (Final Thumping)        35                25.6         18.2             26            -

I really did this to see how the conferences performed in the playoffs , plus I am feeling the LL gets downgraded a bit
and I wanted to see if the results warranted it. Before Wesley joined the NJAC, I would have said the E8 had slightly better results followed by the LL, MAC and NJAC, but all very close. Now with Wesley in the NJAC(if Wesley performs at Historic levels) they should be the better performing conference.
Essentially, without Wesley, only Hobart had a Playoff win against a top 10 opponent(John's Hopkins only #10 in final poll), but the region held serve pretty well below the top 10 over the last 5 years(MAC had two losses and NJAC one in the 11-25 opponent ranking). For what it's worth.........

And if you go by final regular season poll the E8 jumps ahead with Fisher's two road wins vs #9 John Carroll and #8 Hobart...

That #10 Hopkins squad that you're referencing beat a 7-3 Rowan team (that had the 3rd best overall record in the NJAC) by a whopping 8 points...

And two years earlier a 13th ranked 10-0 Hopkins squad was taken out in the first round by a 3rd string QB and a defense that picked off the Hopkins QB I believe 5 times...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 05, 2016, 08:43:21 AM
Dlip has feels JHU is consistently overrated.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2016, 09:09:53 AM
I said the same thing earlier this season about Johnny Hops.  That they are consistently overrated in part because they play in an easy conference where they are not challenged.  But in thinking on it further I would say the dropoff from serious title contenders to just very good teams probably happens around the 8th spot or so in the rankings...so I guess JHU would be as good as any to have as a team that rounds out the top 10.  All of the teams in that 10-20 range are a lot closer in talent than the gap from let's say the gap from the #5 ranked team to #10. 

In general that is.  Of course on any given year there can be exceptions. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 05, 2016, 10:29:44 AM
Quote from: dlip on November 05, 2016, 08:43:21 AM
Dlip has feels JHU is consistently overrated.

Agreed...

They're a top 15-20 program but because of attrition and being in a conference that isn't so competitive as other top conferences they keep rising into the top 10...

You would add a yearly regular season loss and a rankings drop if they were in a top conference...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 05, 2016, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 04, 2016, 11:44:51 AM
I was interested in the performance of the major conferences in the East in the Playoffs by opponent final D3.com rankings...records last five years(**revised after I missed Salisbury as part of E8 in 2011 Playoffs):

            Conference                      MAC             LL            E8             NJAC         Wesley        All
                                                                                                                    (2011-14)
Top 10 Playoff Record(2011-15)      0 - 4            1- 5          1- 7            0-5            3-4          5- 25

Top 11-25                                     3 - 2            1-0           5- 0            1- 0          4-0           14-3

Got some poll votes                       0 - 0            2- 0          1- 0            1- 0          1- 0            4-0

Unranked(No votes)                       3- 0            1- 0          2- 0             3- 0          2- 0          11-0

Total                                             6- 6             5- 5          9- 7             5- 5          10-4        35-28

AVG Pts Loss  (Final Thumping)        35                25.6       18.8             26            -

I really did this to see how the conferences performed in the playoffs , plus I am feeling the LL gets downgraded a bit
and I wanted to see if the results warranted it. The E8 has the best record(only conference over .500) followed by the LL, MAC and NJAC. Now with Wesley in the NJAC(if Wesley performs at Historic levels) they should be the better performing conference.
Essentially, without Wesley, only Hobart and Salisbury had Playoff wins against a top 10 opponent(Bart beat John's Hopkins only #10 in final 2014 poll and Salisbury beat Kean, also #10 in 2011 ), but the region held serve pretty well below the top 10 over the last 5 years(MAC had two losses and NJAC one in the 11-25 opponent ranking). For teams that flowed from the E8 to the NJAC(Cortland , Salisbury) I counted their performance in the conference at the time.  For what it's worth.........
I had to revise this based on the flow of E8 and NJAC teams between conferences. I also missed Salisbury's run as part of E8 in 2011...it doesn't really change the conclusion that E8 has been the strongest performer(includes Salisbury of 2011, but NJAC includes a Cortland run in 2012), with NJAC looking good in the future with Wesley. The LL and MAC look pretty similar based on this 5 year window.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 05, 2016, 04:34:23 PM
Big changes on the RR board this week after Hobart wins by 16(what no last minute win?), Wesley dominates Salisbury and The Steve is beaten by Wilkes(???????). Congrats to Alfred for remaining undefeated before the big clash with Fisher next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

That may be a biased suggestion  ;). Alas, Wesley may well be best but the analytics of ranking will favor Alfred should they win next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

As of November, that may well be true.  But by the selection/seeding criteria, Wesley will be very lucky to get even one home game in the playoffs. ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 05, 2016, 07:49:00 PM
Had to calm down a bit after a very heartbreaking loss in Framingham. Bridgewater will most likely go to play Husson 1st round. It was tough to watch football after that, I sat and watch two other games closely, the Wesley vs. Salisbury and WNE and Salve. I was very impressed with both Wesley and WNE. Wesley is a very explosive team offensively, they ran and passed, keep Salisbury on their heels all day. I though early on that it was going to be a shoot out, but after that hit on one of Salisbury star running backs along with the fumble and injury to the other, Wesley seized control and never looked back. Regarding WNE, WNE got out to a big lead, but let Salve back in late, but then after some questionable calls and coaching calls (too aggressive), WNE was able to settle down again and finish the game, WNE defense really controlled the passing lanes and never let Salve QB settle and hit his targets down field. Saw the end of the Hobart vs. St. Lawrence game, thought that St. Lawrence was going to pull it out after gaining momentum after the safety, but Hobart remained poised and finish the game. Alfred looked balance against Utica and played good 3rd down defense, I though they were going to pull away late, but Utica kept it close not really giving up. As far as #1 team in the East, I would say it is a toss up between Wesley and Alfred, but I will give the nod to Alfred as they are an undefeated E 8 team that is well balance and has a respectable D. I think other teams are either very good offensively and okay defensively or vice versa. Interested to see how the RR will look.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

As of November, that may well be true.  But by the selection/seeding criteria, Wesley will be very lucky to get even one home game in the playoffs. ;)

Wrong.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

As of November, that may well be true.  But by the selection/seeding criteria, Wesley will be very lucky to get even one home game in the playoffs. ;)

Wrong.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.  What's the criteria-based rationale for Wesley being #1 in the East region?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

As of November, that may well be true.  But by the selection/seeding criteria, Wesley will be very lucky to get even one home game in the playoffs. ;)

Wrong.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.  What's the criteria-based rationale for Wesley being #1 in the East region?

Wally, no criteria.  just what I have seen and I have seen more than anyone else.  Will they be number 1? No.  Are they the best team in the East in my opinion yes.  I won't even vote them # 1 in the ERFP, but 2 is easy.  Have to respect Alfred still being undefeated.  After the top 5 or 6 in the nation, you don't want to play this team.  Again, my opinion and I am usually conservative on Wesley as far as top level play.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2016, 10:30:55 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

As of November, that may well be true.  But by the selection/seeding criteria, Wesley will be very lucky to get even one home game in the playoffs. ;)

Wrong.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.  What's the criteria-based rationale for Wesley being #1 in the East region?

Wally, no criteria.  just what I have seen and I have seen more than anyone else.  Will they be number 1? No.  Are they the best team in the East in my opinion yes.  I won't even vote them # 1 in the ERFP, but 2 is easy.  Have to respect Alfred still being undefeated.  After the top 5 or 6 in the nation, you don't want to play this team.  Again, my opinion and I am usually conservative on Wesley as far as top level play.

Unless of course you are Delaware Valley or CNU.  Rowan also gave Wesley a run for their money. Wesley, like the rest of the region outside of Alfred to this point, have done nothing to distinguish themselves as a clear #1 team. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Neither team beats Wesley now.  Alfred is the clear #1 on paper.  not sure on the field 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 10:48:28 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 05, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 07:24:04 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 05, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
The status of the East region is:

*dumpster fire gif*

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does Stevenson lose that game of all games?

Alfred needs to win their game next week to leave no doubt who is #1 in the region and save themselves from Pool C Hell with the rest of the 1 and 2 loss east teams.

Number 1 team in east is Wesley. 😃

As of November, that may well be true.  But by the selection/seeding criteria, Wesley will be very lucky to get even one home game in the playoffs. ;)

Wrong.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.  What's the criteria-based rationale for Wesley being #1 in the East region?

Wally, no criteria.  just what I have seen and I have seen more than anyone else.  Will they be number 1? No.  Are they the best team in the East in my opinion yes.  I won't even vote them # 1 in the ERFP, but 2 is easy.  Have to respect Alfred still being undefeated.  After the top 5 or 6 in the nation, you don't want to play this team.  Again, my opinion and I am usually conservative on Wesley as far as top level play.

Got it.  Seemed like you were saying Wesley should be #1 in the regional rankings.  Best team and #1 team in the rankings don't necessarily have to be the same thing. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 11:01:46 PM
Wally, no with 2 loses they have no chance to be #1 in the RR with Alfred being undefeated.  After that though, it will be intersting to see since some lost ahead of them.  In the end it does not matter since Wesley will win the NJAC and with the AQ will likely have a home game in whatever bracket they are in.  The east bracket with Husson in it will be easy pickings for someone in that half of the bracket since I believe only WNEW is within 500 miles of Husson. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2016, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Neither team beats Wesley now.  Alfred is the clear #1 on paper.  not sure on the field

Perhaps I should elaborate a little more clearly.  Alfred is the only team that has done something that they can make a legitimate claim as for being the #1 team in remaining undefeated.  On the field, obviously nobody knows.  I just think it's foolish to say that a team who lost twice and barely beat a 5-4 team is the best.  They haven't done anything to distinguish themselves.  And saying that Wesley would win those games now...because you say so?  Sure, they might.  But they also might not.  Wesley isn't infallible. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:10:19 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 11:01:46 PM
Wally, no with 2 loses they have no chance to be #1 in the RR with Alfred being undefeated.  After that though, it will be intersting to see since some lost ahead of them.  In the end it does not matter since Wesley will win the NJAC and with the AQ will likely have a home game in whatever bracket they are in.  The east bracket with Husson in it will be easy pickings for someone in that half of the bracket since I believe only WNEW is within 500 miles of Husson. 

It is possible that Wesley could host a game, but I don't think I'd go as far as to say that it is likely.  2-loss teams hosting playoff games is a rare thing.  Rare enough that now I'm curious and I'm going to track down some numbers on that. 

We also don't know that Wesley will be in a quadrant with Husson/WNE, but if they are that's bad news for Wesley getting to a host a game.  One of those two teams has to host, and neither probably would were it not for the geography-forced matchup.  That means somebody that would host a first round won't get to. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 11:20:14 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2016, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Neither team beats Wesley now.  Alfred is the clear #1 on paper.  not sure on the field

Perhaps I should elaborate a little more clearly.  Alfred is the only team that has done something that they can make a legitimate claim as for being the #1 team in remaining undefeated.  On the field, obviously nobody knows.  I just think it's foolish to say that a team who lost twice and barely beat a 5-4 team is the best.  They haven't done anything to distinguish themselves.  And saying that Wesley would win those games now...because you say so?  Sure, they might.  But they also might not.  Wesley isn't infallible.

since I clearly stated in my opinion it is what I think.  Since i have seen all of the games I clearly have the best idea as to what may occur.  Alfred is #1 since they are undefeated, easy for me on paper.  As far as if they played Wesley, I would take Wesley 9 out of 10 games.  I am rather objective as far as how things go.  My moniker comes from the fact that my son played for Wesley, now 8+ years ago.  I follow them, but will rip them with the best of them when they are not playing well, which I did when they lost Del Val and CNU.  I look at things from a national perspective as to who can win the title and go from there.  No one that I have seen play this year, live or on the computer, in the east can win the national title.  The best team I have seen to this point is Wesley and I dont think they can beat anyone in the top 10.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2016, 11:29:47 PM
Yeah you always say you are unbiased but I think you're a little blind to your Wesley bias.  Great, you're hard on them when they lose.  You always hop right back on with a tone of arrogance as soon as they string together a few wins.  Your bias is showing this very moment.  You think they hit this amazing gear that nobody else in the East is at...I will again point out that 2 weeks ago they barely beat a .500 team.  They are not separating themselves from the pack. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:34:25 PM
Ok, so going back to 2011, here's the list of 2-loss teams that hosted first round tournament games:

2011:
Delaware Valley
Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)

2012:
Salisbury

2013:
Ithaca
Rowan (paired with the UMHB game)
Hampden-Sydney (paired with the NWC game)
Franklin (one loss to FCS Butler, but Franklin actually finished 7-3 this season...this was a weird choice)

2014:
None

2015:
Cortland (paired with the NWC game)
Franklin (again, one loss to FCS Butler)

So multiple loss teams hosting first round games actually happens more than I thought initially, but still pretty rare.  And in those rare instances, it usually happens with a weird geographic matchup with the Texas/West coast sub brackets. 

Mock bracketing this week and next should be fun exercises and shed some light on how likely it is that Wesley and some other teams in similar situations could host a game or two. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2016, 08:02:19 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:34:25 PM
Ok, so going back to 2011, here's the list of 2-loss teams that hosted first round tournament games:

2011:
Delaware Valley
Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)

2012:
Salisbury

2013:
Ithaca
Rowan (paired with the UMHB game)
Hampden-Sydney (paired with the NWC game)
Franklin (one loss to FCS Butler, but Franklin actually finished 7-3 this season...this was a weird choice)

2014:
None

2015:
Cortland (paired with the NWC game)
Franklin (again, one loss to FCS Butler)

So multiple loss teams hosting first round games actually happens more than I thought initially, but still pretty rare.  And in those rare instances, it usually happens with a weird geographic matchup with the Texas/West coast sub brackets. 

Mock bracketing this week and next should be fun exercises and shed some light on how likely it is that Wesley and some other teams in similar situations could host a game or two.

Thanks Wally.  This is going to be a pretty interesting season to say the least.  I think the playoffs are going to be a lot of fun with some really good first round games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2016, 08:12:38 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 05, 2016, 11:29:47 PM
Yeah you always say you are unbiased but I think you're a little blind to your Wesley bias.  Great, you're hard on them when they lose.  You always hop right back on with a tone of arrogance as soon as they string together a few wins.  Your bias is showing this very moment.  You think they hit this amazing gear that nobody else in the East is at...I will again point out that 2 weeks ago they barely beat a .500 team.  They are not separating themselves from the pack.

Not sure where I ever said they were separating themselves from the pack, just that I think they have moved to the front of the pack in what is turning out to be a very interesting east region.  Hopefully the brackets will allow many of these teams to play each other so that we can see how it plays out as opposed to moving the pieces all around and only a game or 2 gets played.  This would be a really fun region if the top teams were in a bracket.  The winner would have to be playing well to win 3 games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 06, 2016, 08:44:25 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Neither team beats Wesley now.  Alfred is the clear #1 on paper.  not sure on the field
All right ....that sounds like a good old fashioned challenge.....the Saxonites should feel the slap of the glove on the cheek as they are accused of being paper # Ones......I love it....I think we can get some good trash talk back on the boards....things have been boring...so Fisher , if you beat Alfred, don't feel  that good because you are only beating paper Ones.....Wesleydad is well respected on the boards , for sure, but  methinks you are rallying the competitors ......Speaking for StatesmenNation, we would love to have another playoff crack at the wild beast and engineer a shocking last second win  :o ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 06, 2016, 08:52:50 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:34:25 PM
Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi220.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd257%2Fpriv8pete%2FYouarecorrect.jpg&hash=13e9e0e452ae8cc2f181f58888eefcfff9c8f0be)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2016, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 06, 2016, 08:44:25 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Neither team beats Wesley now.  Alfred is the clear #1 on paper.  not sure on the field
All right ....that sounds like a good old fashioned challenge.....the Saxonites should feel the slap of the glove on the cheek as they are accused of being paper # Ones......I love it....I think we can get some good trash talk back on the boards....things have been boring...so Fisher , if you beat Alfred, don't feel  that good because you are only beating paper Ones.....Wesleydad is well respected on the boards , for sure, but  methinks you are rallying the competitors ......Speaking for StatesmenNation, we would love to have another playoff crack at the wild beast and engineer a shocking last second win  :o ;D

Bartman, congrats on the impressive win yesterday.  Made me put Hobart back on my list.:D  The way things are playing out in the east, who knows who ends up playing who.  If Fisher beats Alfred they will have beaten a very good team and likely get my vote as the #1 in the East.  There is as good a chance as not that Hobart and Wesley could end up meeting in round 1.  I just hope it isn't a 4-5 game and the winner goes to Mount if that is who the #1 is in our bracket.   Next weeks game results will go a long way into how round 1 looks.  Next Sunday will be a fun day waiting for the brackets to come out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 06, 2016, 09:20:16 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 06, 2016, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 06, 2016, 08:44:25 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Neither team beats Wesley now.  Alfred is the clear #1 on paper.  not sure on the field
All right ....that sounds like a good old fashioned challenge.....the Saxonites should feel the slap of the glove on the cheek as they are accused of being paper # Ones......I love it....I think we can get some good trash talk back on the boards....things have been boring...so Fisher , if you beat Alfred, don't feel  that good because you are only beating paper Ones.....Wesleydad is well respected on the boards , for sure, but  methinks you are rallying the competitors ......Speaking for StatesmenNation, we would love to have another playoff crack at the wild beast and engineer a shocking last second win  :o ;D


Bartman, congrats on the impressive win yesterday.  Made me put Hobart back on my list.:D  The way things are playing out in the east, who knows who ends up playing who.  If Fisher beats Alfred they will have beaten a very good team and likely get my vote as the #1 in the East.  There is as good a chance as not that Hobart and Wesley could end up meeting in round 1.  I just hope it isn't a 4-5 game and the winner goes to Mount if that is who the #1 is in our bracket.   Next weeks game results will go a long way into how round 1 looks.  Next Sunday will be a fun day waiting for the brackets to come out.
I am thinking Hobart will move up to #3 this week with the carnage above and I will be rooting for the Saxons to beat Fisher so we can move to #2 on the secret end of season rankings , IF the boys do their job against the Yellow Jackets next week........BTW, beware of Willy P I understand they are inspired by the Wilkes win and will be secretly removing all the Wolverines cleats ;) You still need to hear the Rotund Alto sing
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 06, 2016, 10:33:36 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 06, 2016, 08:52:50 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:34:25 PM
Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi220.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd257%2Fpriv8pete%2FYouarecorrect.jpg&hash=13e9e0e452ae8cc2f181f58888eefcfff9c8f0be)

Ha!  Excellent reference. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 06, 2016, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:10:19 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2016, 11:01:46 PM
Wally, no with 2 loses they have no chance to be #1 in the RR with Alfred being undefeated.  After that though, it will be intersting to see since some lost ahead of them.  In the end it does not matter since Wesley will win the NJAC and with the AQ will likely have a home game in whatever bracket they are in.  The east bracket with Husson in it will be easy pickings for someone in that half of the bracket since I believe only WNEW is within 500 miles of Husson. 

It is possible that Wesley could host a game, but I don't think I'd go as far as to say that it is likely.  2-loss teams hosting playoff games is a rare thing.  Rare enough that now I'm curious and I'm going to track down some numbers on that. 

We also don't know that Wesley will be in a quadrant with Husson/WNE, but if they are that's bad news for Wesley getting to a host a game.  One of those two teams has to host, and neither probably would were it not for the geography-forced matchup.  That means somebody that would host a first round won't get to.

Yeah, I would be surprised if Wesley got a first round home game with 2 losses.  I have a feeling that another trip to JHU is going to be in the cards early on.

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 06, 2016, 02:35:16 PM
Loaded show with interviews from SLUvsHOB, ECAC Interim Commish John Rollins and Frank's Rd 2 East Region Rankings predictions and justifications.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 06, 2016, 03:46:26 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 05, 2016, 11:34:25 PM
Ok, so going back to 2011, here's the list of 2-loss teams that hosted first round tournament games:

2010:
Alfred (hosted a 10-0 SUNY-Maritime team...I feel like I remember there being a paperwork problem or a facility problem with them?  Unconfirmed at this point.)


SUNY Maritime (10-0) was #3 seed and Alfred (8-2) was #6 seed in the Mount Union bracket but game was moved to Alfred because SUNY Maritime for some reason could not host (either paperwork or facility issue). AU was up 50-0 at halftime.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 06, 2016, 04:00:23 PM
My memory is it was 2010 not 2011 for the SUNY-Maritime game.  Isn't that right Pep?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: saxontad on November 06, 2016, 04:01:25 PM
Never mind.  I misread the post!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 06, 2016, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: saxontad on November 06, 2016, 04:00:23 PM
My memory is it was 2010 not 2011 for the SUNY-Maritime game.  Isn't that right Pep?

What KaZ00 said:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi220.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd257%2Fpriv8pete%2FYouarecorrect.jpg&hash=13e9e0e452ae8cc2f181f58888eefcfff9c8f0be)

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 07:15:30 PM
Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

Proposed solution: 

Maintain all the current requirements to receive a Pool A bid but also add the requirement that the conference must also have an OOC record above .500 that season.  Otherwise the bid is forfeited and sent to Pool C, where that conference champion can be considered along with all other Pool C candidates. 

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

If conferences try and get around it by scheduling nothing but cupcakes in their OOC well then i'd say this:

1.  There are only so many games that can be scheduled with the subpar teams 
2.  If let's say to give themselves a fighting chance all MASCAC teams played ECFC teams for their OOC then it is essentially combining the two conferences to give 1 bid for all intents and purposes.  A good thing. 

Above .500.  So a conference like CC this year with Johnny Hops which finished their OOC at .500 would forfeit it this year and JHU would be in Pool C consideration and get in that way. 

I'm happy with this.  It would reward teams who actually play in tough conferences and pickup losses in there that remove them from the playoffs when they are better than half (or more) of the actual playoff field.  It can't hurt. 

Pat...let's get on the horn with some NCAA contacts and make this happen. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 07, 2016, 07:22:10 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 07:15:30 PM
Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

Proposed solution: 

Maintain all the current requirements to receive a Pool A bid but also add the requirement that the conference must also have an OOC record above .500 that season.  Otherwise the bid is forfeited and sent to Pool C, where that conference champion can be considered along with all other Pool C candidates. 

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

If conferences try and get around it by scheduling nothing but cupcakes in their OOC well then i'd say this:

1.  There are only so many games that can be scheduled with the subpar teams 
2.  If let's say to give themselves a fighting chance all MASCAC teams played ECFC teams for their OOC then it is essentially combining the two conferences to give 1 bid for all intents and purposes.  A good thing. 

Above .500.  So a conference like CC this year with Johnny Hops which finished their OOC at .500 would forfeit it this year and JHU would be in Pool C consideration and get in that way. 

I'm happy with this.  It would reward teams who actually play in tough conferences and pickup losses in there that remove them from the playoffs when they are better than half (or more) of the actual playoff field.  It can't hurt. 

Pat...let's get on the horn with some NCAA contacts and make this happen.

I cannot disagree more.  Look, this is the case every year, but there is a reason why the playoffs are set up the way they are.  You have to consider each conference on its own.  Recruiting, academic selectivity, location, funding, etc, etc, etc all have an effect on the quality of the conferences themselves.   To place an arbitrary baseline is unfair to those who succeeded in their respective conference.  You are forgetting that the playoffs once had but half the number of teams. Now THAT was unfair.   If we had it your way, we might as well do away with conferences altogether.

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 07, 2016, 07:22:10 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 07:15:30 PM
Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

Proposed solution: 

Maintain all the current requirements to receive a Pool A bid but also add the requirement that the conference must also have an OOC record above .500 that season.  Otherwise the bid is forfeited and sent to Pool C, where that conference champion can be considered along with all other Pool C candidates. 

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

If conferences try and get around it by scheduling nothing but cupcakes in their OOC well then i'd say this:

1.  There are only so many games that can be scheduled with the subpar teams 
2.  If let's say to give themselves a fighting chance all MASCAC teams played ECFC teams for their OOC then it is essentially combining the two conferences to give 1 bid for all intents and purposes.  A good thing. 

Above .500.  So a conference like CC this year with Johnny Hops which finished their OOC at .500 would forfeit it this year and JHU would be in Pool C consideration and get in that way. 

I'm happy with this.  It would reward teams who actually play in tough conferences and pickup losses in there that remove them from the playoffs when they are better than half (or more) of the actual playoff field.  It can't hurt. 

Pat...let's get on the horn with some NCAA contacts and make this happen.

I cannot disagree more.  Look, this is the case every year, but there is a reason why the playoffs are set up the way they are.  You have to consider each conference on its own.  Recruiting, academic selectivity, location, funding, etc, etc, etc all have an effect on the quality of the conferences themselves.   To place an arbitrary baseline is unfair to those who succeeded in their respective conference.  You are forgetting that the playoffs once had but half the number of teams. Now THAT was unfair.   If we had it your way, we might as well do away with conferences altogether.

-Ski

Yeah, I know conferences have other objectives and circumstances.  But if the end goal of those objectives creates a representive that is losing to Alfred 50-0 at halftime...how does that help the tournament?  If a conference isn't placing a premium on competitiveness on a national level then they shouldn't be bent out of shape if they don't make a national tournament.  Stick to the bowl games or get better and produce meaningful competition.  If there is a team in the conference who is actually deserving then they'd be eligible along with all of the other Pool C teams.  It would make the tournament more accurately representing the best teams in the country than it is right now. 

Sure, ultimately D3 comes down to about 4-6 teams anyway who can win it all and everyone else is just trying to get there.  But reward the teams who are closer to getting there now.  And if a team like Platteville misses it this year, who is to say they couldn't make a run to the semi finals or finals if they were to just get in.  But nah, that bid went to Team X of terrible conference Y. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 07:46:44 PM
But we can agree to disagree on my brilliant idea  ;)

If enough people hate the idea then I will yell for Pat to hang up the phone just as he is dialing the number to speak to the NCAA overlord.  It will be a scene straight out of a movie. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RtSLl3100 on November 07, 2016, 09:13:27 PM
Most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Why punish a team or conference based on ideals. Also take the CC or NJAC or OACwho have a 10 team conference therefore can only schedule 1 out of conference game. Now yes each team should try to schedule a respectable opponent for that 1 game but have to get other team to agree. Then comes the aspect of d3 budgets for travel, etc. one last point is then saying a team like Mount Union should not be able to qualify for an AQ because they are around .455. Nice try but teams EARN AQ's, some have a harder road than others but these kids still go out week after week with the same goal...playing for a chance at a national title
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 09:32:39 PM
Again, transferring the OAC's pool A to a C is still giving the same exact bid to Mount Union since they would make the tournament.  Or any other large conference who has a limited set of OOC games, and a clear team who belongs in the playoffs.  Are you not getting that point?  The only teams it would truly impact are the conference winners of bad conferences AND that conference winner is likely a bad team themself.   

And it's not punishing a conference for their ideals.  If you have a conference whose ideals is to be the best collection of academic institutions in America, then great.  Make it so.  If that collection happens to all be terrible at football...why rob a more deserving team who maybe places their ideals and efforts into athletics?  That's potentially a bigger injustice. 

And hey, if the conference improves their product as a whole then they would be rewarded.  Think of it as an incentive to be better as opposed to a punitive measure if that helps the idea appeal to you more  ;D

But you're right, the current system is excellent.  All of those competitive first round games while top 15 teams are sitting at home. 

I swear, you guys are tossing out the hyperbole with statements like "couldn't disagree more" and "most ridiculous idea I've ever heard."  It's not like I said Trump should be president.  Hey-oh! 

But seriously...rock the vote tomorrow.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 07, 2016, 10:00:44 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 09:32:39 PM
But seriously...rock the vote tomorrow.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Worst idea ever.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RtSLl3100 on November 07, 2016, 10:07:32 PM
Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: RtSLl3100 on November 07, 2016, 10:07:32 PM
Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 07, 2016, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: RtSLl3100 on November 07, 2016, 10:07:32 PM
Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though  :)

Love the idea of forfeiting your first born??!!  Yeah, I've had days like that with my kids! ;D

I'm sympathetic to some sort of modification (though far less drastic than what you suggest) to keep out teams that have ZERO chance of winning even a first round game, but recognize that it is a moot point.  Playoff rules are not set by 'The NCAA', but by vote of the member institutions.  And (almost by definition) athletic 'have nots' are always going to far outnumber athletic 'haves'.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on November 07, 2016, 10:56:26 PM
I understand this is all hypothetical and well intentioned, but part of the deal with expanding the playoffs is that you extend the playoffs for another week.  Six weeks of playoffs, ending on Christmas Eve (or the 23rd, depending on when ESPN wants to put the game on tv).  If we just forget about the cost for a second, I think it's a massive long shot that the Division's presidents are going to sign up to extend football season any longer than it already is.  And this is true if you add 4 teams or 32 teams.  This tournament isn't getting any bigger because I think football season runs as long as it is ever going to run in Division III right now. 

I think if there is going to be any significant change to the the structure of the tournament, it'll come from a decision to up the number of teams a league needs to get an AQ.  Bumping that number from seven to nine drastically changes the number of autobids (cuts it down to about half of the field).  I haven't thought a ton about whether or not there would be enough support around the division for that change.  But that sort of change would certainly have more support than extending the season (or increasing the cost of this championship). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2016, 12:38:28 AM
I never picked up the phone.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 08, 2016, 12:55:12 AM
(https://media.tenor.co/images/33d9d1f1255b3001950345d664617990/raw)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ccd494 on November 08, 2016, 07:05:05 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 07:15:30 PM
Just sitting here getting sad for some of the worthy teams who won't make the playoffs this season...while other more undeserving squads make it via the automatic bid.  The potential exists that JCU, Platteville, St. John Fisher, Wabash won't make the field depending on how the final week pans out. 

...

It would penalize the conferences that shafted everyone else by grouping together a bunch of poor teams and stealing away a bid (shout out to the ECFCs of the world).  Put Platteville in that conference or the MASCAC and see what happens.

1.  Whining about the ECFC not being able to compete with Alfred is rich when Husson already took them down to the wire this year.

2.  Schools from other conferences have no leg to stand on when complaining about the ECFC "stealing" a bid when they wouldn't play the teams that founded that conference or let them join their conferences. Was Husson supposed to sit at home and say "Thank you for not playing or considering us for the conference, we will just be happy playing six game schedules with no postseason"?  You don't want Husson or Mt. Ida to go to the playoffs?  Invite them to join your conference and beat them on the field. Husson has shown a willingness to play anyone anywhere and I'm sure would love to challenge themselves in a better conference. They have probably reached the point where the ECFC is more restrictive than helpful.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 08, 2016, 07:51:17 AM
1.  It's called an example.  I'm sure there are other conferences whose representatives regularly get taken to the woodshed but it's easy to cite ECFC because A. Proximity to me keeps them on the radar more and B. They have such classic examples of being destroyed in the playoffs.  I could have went with the ECFC rep losing 49-0 last year, losing 34-7 in 2013, 73-14 in 2012, and 62-10 in 2011.  I just chose the 60-0 loss to Alfred because it stuck in my head.  The only time I can remember their representative doing well is when Husson lost to MIT of NEFC fame in 2014. 

2.  If a team like Husson did exactly what they did this year and went undefeated in their awful conference but showed aggressiveness in their OOC by scheduling a team like Alfred and taking it to the wire...then in the setup I suggested it would be a year in which they would be considered for the playoffs.  A committeee would take that into consideration and who knows, for simplistic purposes let's say that bid that was transferred to Pool C would still end up going straight to them.  Maybe it's conference X in another region entirely that ends up truly losing their bid to one of those top 15 teams I cited before because they played in a bad conference and also didn't provide any evidence they can compete with a playoff caliber team out of conference.  I wasn't saying guarantee that a team from ECFC never make it into the field...but damn, someone from such a conference step up and find a way to better themselves on the field before automatically giving them their annual bid to be slaughtered at the alter.  Doing what Husson did is actually exactly what I would want as an end game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 08, 2016, 08:57:03 AM
Personally, I would rather see a system where the top 16 teams play for a national title(nobody outside of the top 16, probably 8 can win a title), and there are 4 regional tourneys of 8 or 16 teams each producing a regional champion.If you have an automatic bid you are in, but only qualify for the Elite 16 if you are selected. I don't know whether that means the ECAC runs the East and the other regions have organizations that run their tournaments, but I hate going to Mt. Union or MHB when you are competitive in your region to get dismantled by a program that you will never compete with because it is not a priority of your educational institution. I also think this would eliminate many of the double monkey stomps that end up being so disheartening.For example, this year St. Lawrence will probably not get in, but they might win an Eastern tournament that could have some real value. It always sucks to go on the Bataan death March out West unless you are really a strong team that can stay within 2-3 touchdowns and feel good about facing the best, although accepting the inevitable final sabre slash. That means the top programs in the East the last few years can still compete when they have a really good team and have at least an outside chance in the National tourney, but more realistically can compete regularly for a regional championship every year. Husson then has a chance to compete and show everyone that the Alfred game this year was real. Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2016, 09:44:13 AM
Increasing the number of teams from 7 to 9 would be fine. That would force a good amount of teams to schedule better opponents, however leaves some of the weaker teams scheduling weaker teams. Then if everyone had 9 conference opponents, the SOS would circulate around .500 and for some of those good teams that couldn't get that tough OOC match-up, they are left out of the playoffs because that 1 team they played may go 1-9. I like the current model. I would be in favor of having bye-weeks for top seeds and the 1st round game being paid for by the school and if the school doesn't want to pay, they forfeit their spot. With that the NCAA doesn't have to spend a dime for 1st round games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 08, 2016, 09:53:16 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: RtSLl3100 on November 07, 2016, 10:07:32 PM
Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though  :)

Booby I think your "system" would be too hard to administer numbers wise. 

Maybe if we  just said that 2 conferences each year aren't getting a pool A bid, and we won't tell you which conferences they are until our secret meeting on November 13th, where we will use a list of ambiguous criteria ranked in order of random importance that give each team a subjective, truncated, whole number ranking based on non conference SOS numbers that are based on top 25 wins in the last 5 weeks of the season versus conference schedules in region except for those outside a 500 mile radius and/or games versus NCAA division 2 competition.  (Exceptions would be made for phone calls made by Pat Coleman to this secret meeting committee on the night of Novermber 12th with further suggestions and input)

I think that would be a fair process.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2016, 10:04:09 AM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 08, 2016, 09:53:16 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 07, 2016, 10:26:56 PM
Quote from: RtSLl3100 on November 07, 2016, 10:07:32 PM
Current system is not great but it works for the system. I think a better idea for your beloved uwp or JCU is expand the playoff field again. Not doubling it but maybe giving these "elite" teams a first round bye so we don't see a mhbu v hsu first round due to travel.
But to say uwp is deserving of a playoff bid bc they are in a tough conference(arguably the best in d3 this year) that's why they have 2 losses is what is ridiculous. Fact remains recruit better or have a better game plan and be the one to win the close games. I doubt anyone would argue saying they are not good enough to win a play off game compared to some of the other teams that make the field, still those other teams did what they were supposed to do to get into the tournament and not worry about what if situations or having a committee of people decide if they should make the tournament.
And your notion that mt union or a Hopkins would still get in but just as a pool c instead of a pool a bid just makes even less sense if your are saying the deserve to still get in, just not be a guarantee??

I don't want to argue a lot of this since expanding the field by another few teams and having some play in games was a thought I had.  But I figured the NCAA wouldn't be as down for that with the money, travel and all that.  But saying the teams in those other conferences did what they had to do on one hand and then with the other saying it's ok for conferences to assemble a league full of subpar teams because they are trying to do something that has zero to do with football like be with like-minded institutions...that to me is having your cake and eating it too. 

And I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to say to a team that if they deserve to be in, they'll ultimately be in regardless of automatic conference qualifiers.  That to me is the point of Pool C is to pick the most qualified teams in the purest form.  Pool A is the pool that doesn't accomplish that as much and is the entire point of what I'm suggesting be remedied.   

I'm going to put you in as a hard no for this proposition, along with Ski.  I'm waiting for the next person up to see if they can one up you guys on the disagreement scale.  Maybe that person will suggest I forfeit my first born for suggesting such an appalling thing.  I personally love the idea though  :)

Booby I think your "system" would be too hard to administer numbers wise. 

Maybe if we  just said that 2 conferences each year aren't getting a pool A bid, and we won't tell you which conferences they are until our secret meeting on November 13th, where we will use a list of ambiguous criteria ranked in order of random importance that give each team a subjective, truncated, whole number ranking based on non conference SOS numbers that are based on top 25 wins in the last 5 weeks of the season versus conference schedules in region except for those outside a 500 mile radius and/or games versus NCAA division 2 competition.  (Exceptions would be made for phone calls made by Pat Coleman to this secret meeting committee on the night of Novermber 12th with further suggestions and input)

I think that would be a fair process.

Do you work for ESECPN?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: d3fan142511 on November 08, 2016, 11:48:20 AM
As a New England Fan Supporter....and someone who has played in and follows the ECFC i have to say it is the biggest honor to play in the NCAA Tournament. Just like those 16 seeds play in March Madness ...its all about the experience. However when we got matched up with our opponent we new it was going to be a long shot but we still played and battled for the entire game and i was proud of my team and coaches for treating it like any other game no matter what the score was.

However I do see the other side and there are some great teams/hat have a better chance to go on run being left out of playoffs....With the NEWMAC being created one thing i thought of was that the 4 new england conference champion schools had a play in game to get to the NCAA's.

Each team plays 9 regular season games and then match up ECFC vs NEWMAC and MASCAC vs NEFC...the two winners then move on to the NCAA Tournament. You switch match ups each year or determine based on record.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 08, 2016, 12:10:01 PM
Before anyone kills Booby, you might want to take a look at the D2 earned access approach, which is essentially a hybrid model in the way it plays out, generally.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 09, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
This just in:

EAST   
1 Alfred 9-0 9-0
2 St. John Fisher 8-1
3 Hobart 8-1
4 Wesley 7-2
5 Stevenson 8-1 
6 Western New England 9-0 
7 Salisbury 7-2
8 Albright 7-2
9 Frostburg State 8-1
10 St. Lawrence 8-1

Looks like loser of ALF-SJF is in Pool C no matter what and SLU is locked out
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 09, 2016, 01:51:15 PM
YAAAAY!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 09, 2016, 02:04:27 PM
Frank got all the teams and almost nailed the order. Basically guarantees E8 runner up is in IMO and SLU is done. He's going to reach out to WNE to see if they're able to host (they couldn't in past b/c of press box limitations).
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 09, 2016, 04:27:30 PM
Unless Fisher gets 60 dropped on them this week it looks good that the E8 runner up is in line for the first team on the board when it comes time to decide pool C bids...

I don't think I've seen a year where an East team is not selected and Fishers SOS will help make their case if they're at 8-2...

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 09, 2016, 05:36:08 PM
A Fisher loss to Alfred and a Frostburg win vs. Salisbury could flip the relative ordering if Salisbury remains ranked.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 10, 2016, 07:55:18 AM
Frank that is a pretty big IF  :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 10, 2016, 07:58:39 AM
I agree. The Albright double count and ranking is basically keeping Frostburg out.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wone3 on November 10, 2016, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 08, 2016, 08:57:03 AM
Personally, I would rather see a system where the top 16 teams play for a national title(nobody outside of the top 16, probably 8 can win a title), and there are 4 regional tourneys of 8 or 16 teams each producing a regional champion.If you have an automatic bid you are in, but only qualify for the Elite 16 if you are selected. I don't know whether that means the ECAC runs the East and the other regions have organizations that run their tournaments, but I hate going to Mt. Union or MHB when you are competitive in your region to get dismantled by a program that you will never compete with because it is not a priority of your educational institution. I also think this would eliminate many of the double monkey stomps that end up being so disheartening.For example, this year St. Lawrence will probably not get in, but they might win an Eastern tournament that could have some real value. It always sucks to go on the Bataan death March out West unless you are really a strong team that can stay within 2-3 touchdowns and feel good about facing the best, although accepting the inevitable final sabre slash. That means the top programs in the East the last few years can still compete when they have a really good team and have at least an outside chance in the National tourney, but more realistically can compete regularly for a regional championship every year. Husson then has a chance to compete and show everyone that the Alfred game this year was real. Just my 2 cents

Mostly agree with you; but then you probably wouldn't have seen the surprise of the 1990 stag bowl with 2 PA schools that certainly weren't the top 16. The school Lyco played that year was so sure that they would win and play the championship that they invited the college president up to a banquet the night before and gave him a tie. The team and their fans were soooo shocked the next day getting beat and having to sell tickets and change plans ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 11, 2016, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: wone3 on November 10, 2016, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 08, 2016, 08:57:03 AM
Personally, I would rather see a system where the top 16 teams play for a national title(nobody outside of the top 16, probably 8 can win a title), and there are 4 regional tourneys of 8 or 16 teams each producing a regional champion.If you have an automatic bid you are in, but only qualify for the Elite 16 if you are selected. I don't know whether that means the ECAC runs the East and the other regions have organizations that run their tournaments, but I hate going to Mt. Union or MHB when you are competitive in your region to get dismantled by a program that you will never compete with because it is not a priority of your educational institution. I also think this would eliminate many of the double monkey stomps that end up being so disheartening.For example, this year St. Lawrence will probably not get in, but they might win an Eastern tournament that could have some real value. It always sucks to go on the Bataan death March out West unless you are really a strong team that can stay within 2-3 touchdowns and feel good about facing the best, although accepting the inevitable final sabre slash. That means the top programs in the East the last few years can still compete when they have a really good team and have at least an outside chance in the National tourney, but more realistically can compete regularly for a regional championship every year. Husson then has a chance to compete and show everyone that the Alfred game this year was real. Just my 2 cents

Mostly agree with you; but then you probably wouldn't have seen the surprise of the 1990 stag bowl with 2 PA schools that certainly weren't the top 16. The school Lyco played that year was so sure that they would win and play the championship that they invited the college president up to a banquet the night before and gave him a tie. The team and their fans were soooo shocked the next day getting beat and having to sell tickets and change plans ;)
Sounds like a great run in 1990, and I hope if Hobart plays Mount Union as just predicted by Pat Coleman in the Playoff projections in the second round that they pull off the greatest upset in program history with a 46-42 win and 6 TD passes by Sweeney......then I might rethink my playoff revision ideas......and think positively and believe on any given day........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 12, 2016, 04:42:12 PM
With Mt.Union losing and Alfred and Johns Hopkins going undefeated , is there any chance that the East will have its own regional bracket?......I hope.....I just don't want to go down to Texas early
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 12, 2016, 09:13:48 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 12, 2016, 04:42:12 PM
With Mt.Union losing and Alfred and Johns Hopkins going undefeated , is there any chance that the East will have its own regional bracket?......I hope.....I just don't want to go down to Texas early

I believe they should.  There are enough quality teams this year to have a "east" type bracket with no one brought in to make it stronger, well, unless you would count Hopkins being put in it.  We shall see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 07:17:29 AM
East Region mock bracket  D3 Top 25 ranking in ( ).  I expect all of the teams ranked to move up in the rankings with the other teams that lost who were ranked ahead of them.

1 Alfred (14) v 7 Bridgewater St (UR)
6 WNEW (26) v 8 Husson (UR)

2 Hobart (22) v 5 Frostburg (27)/Fisher  I think Frostburg should be in
3 Wesley (20) v 4 Stevenson (23)

Top half is forced due to Husson only being able to play either WNEW or Bridgewater due to 500 mile rule.  Now, since Huntington also has to fly somewhere, maybe the committee flies Husson to Huntington and moves say Hopkins into the east.
If that happened I would have

1 Alfred (14) v 8 Bridgewater (UR)
4 Wesley (20) v 5 Stevenson (23)

2 Hopkins (9) v 7 WNEW (26)
3 Hobart (22) v Frostburg (27)/Fisher

Potential Alfred v Wesley and Hopkins v Hobart round 2 games would be nice.  Bracket final of Alfred v Hopkins/Hobart or Wesley v Hopkins/Hobart would be nice.  This would be the 4th seeded bracket and the winner would go to either UWW or UMHB whichever is the top seed.

One could hope, I selfishly it would be great for me because I would have a game to drive to for 3 weeks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 13, 2016, 07:36:20 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 07:17:29 AM
Potential Alfred v Wesley and Hopkins v Hobart round 2 games would be nice.  Bracket final of Alfred v Hopkins/Hobart or Wesley v Hopkins/Hobart would be nice.  This would be the 4th seeded bracket and the winner would go to either UWW or UMHB whichever is the top seed.

One could hope, I selfishly it would be great for me because I would have a game to drive to for 3 weeks.

Yeah, I as much as I would love to see Wesley play somebody other than JHU in the playoffs, the writing is on the wall for week 2.

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 13, 2016, 10:13:19 AM
So,  shouldn't SLU still have a chance to be ranked higher on the final secret RR rankings given that Fisher is now a 2 loss team and SLU has a higher SOS than Frosty(also,that thumping by Wesley looks particularly bad ) ? I can also see the logic that Fisher makes the case despite 2 losses with the stronger SOS and the RRO win over Olivet (who woulda thunk?), but this is a close call, and if the committee goes for a one loss team, I think the very slight SOS difference gets SLU the nod over Frosty.....we will see tonight.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 13, 2016, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 13, 2016, 07:36:20 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 07:17:29 AM
Potential Alfred v Wesley and Hopkins v Hobart round 2 games would be nice.  Bracket final of Alfred v Hopkins/Hobart or Wesley v Hopkins/Hobart would be nice.  This would be the 4th seeded bracket and the winner would go to either UWW or UMHB whichever is the top seed.

One could hope, I selfishly it would be great for me because I would have a game to drive to for 3 weeks.

Yeah, I as much as I would love to see Wesley play somebody other than JHU in the playoffs, the writing is on the wall for week 2.

-Ski
Interesting to see also that Wesley falls in UMHBs bracket for the first time in 3 years.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 10:36:39 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2016, 10:13:19 AM
So,  shouldn't SLU still have a chance to be ranked higher on the final secret RR rankings given that Fisher is now a 2 loss team and SLU has a higher SOS than Frosty(also,that thumping by Wesley looks particularly bad ) ? I can also see the logic that Fisher makes the case despite 2 losses with the stronger SOS and the RRO win over Olivet (who woulda thunk?), but this is a close call, and if the committee goes for a one loss team, I think the very slight SOS difference gets SLU the nod over Frosty.....we will see tonight.

.............OWP(RK)...OOWP...SOS (RK)...W-L VS RR0
SJF- 8-2, .6000 (7), .5705, 0.590 (4) 1-1
STL- 9-1, .5000 (112), .5593, 0.520 (75) 0-1
FSU- 9-1, .5111 (95), .5330, 0.518 (77) 0-1

Honestly I think it comes down to who the Regional committee thinks has the best shot at getting a pool C.

Do the Larries and Frosties have a shot with their resumes to gain a pool C bid?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 11:57:35 AM
Quote from: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 10:36:39 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2016, 10:13:19 AM
So,  shouldn't SLU still have a chance to be ranked higher on the final secret RR rankings given that Fisher is now a 2 loss team and SLU has a higher SOS than Frosty(also,that thumping by Wesley looks particularly bad ) ? I can also see the logic that Fisher makes the case despite 2 losses with the stronger SOS and the RRO win over Olivet (who woulda thunk?), but this is a close call, and if the committee goes for a one loss team, I think the very slight SOS difference gets SLU the nod over Frosty.....we will see tonight.

.............OWP(RK)...OOWP...SOS (RK)...W-L VS RR0
SJF- 8-2, .6000 (7), .5705, 0.590 (4) 1-1
STL- 9-1, .5000 (112), .5593, 0.520 (75) 0-1
FSU- 9-1, .5111 (95), .5330, 0.518 (77) 0-1

Honestly I think it comes down to who the Regional committee thinks has the best shot at getting a pool C.

Do the Larries and Frosties have a shot with their resumes to gain a pool C bid?

Remember, as of last week Frosty was 1-1 against ranked opponents.  The assumption, and maybe a bad one is that the third loss will drop the Gulls out.  The 10 spot in the east is wide open and has a huge impact on the teams listed.  Maybe Brockport gets in and Fisher looks even better.  Forgot about St. Lawrence still being in the picture.  Once they lost to Hobart I pretty much figured they were out of the discussion.  I was also going by the last RR which has them behind Frostburg.  Good points Upstate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 12:33:10 PM
Oh I agree, this isn't a slight on STL or FSU. They had fantastic years and I was using the Regional Rankings done by Pat, Frank and Wally on the podcast.

The committee has shown that it will reward New England area teams with some love during the rankings. I think they are right on the podcast and SU drops out though.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 13, 2016, 04:46:42 PM
Think Albright's loss hurts Salisbury staying in RR. Therefore hurting Frostburg.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 13, 2016, 04:46:42 PM
Think Albright's loss hurts Salisbury staying in RR. Therefore hurting Frostburg.

Yeah that's a double whammy...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 13, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Well, instead of JHU, Wesley lands John Carroll in the second round.  Besides being on the road, Mount Union got a pretty easy bracket, the easiest of the lot.....

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 06:25:37 PM
No east pool C bids...

I hope the guys at ITTH can get the lowdown on who they put up for the pool C bid...

I can't believe they passed 6 times on an East team...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 06:26:42 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 13, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Well, instead of JHU, Wesley lands John Carroll in the second round.  Besides being on the road, Mount Union got a pretty easy bracket, the easiest of the lot.....

-Ski

That is if they are any good.  Hobart is no easy game and neither is Johns Hopkins.  Alfred is pretty good too.  Mount will have to work to win those 3.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2016, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 06:26:42 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 13, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Well, instead of JHU, Wesley lands John Carroll in the second round.  Besides being on the road, Mount Union got a pretty easy bracket, the easiest of the lot.....

-Ski

That is if they are any good.  Hobart is no easy game and neither is Johns Hopkins.  Alfred is pretty good too.  Mount will have to work to win those 3.

And provided form holds, Mount would have to beat all 3 teams on the road.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on November 13, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Damn, did Hobart get punished for getting in, and for MUC losing?  Instantly, the season went from a possible final 8-or-better run, to a let's-try-not-to-get-blasted-by-50-in-the-first-round campaign.  Mount will be an angry hive of hornets.   F*ck. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 06:38:10 PM
Quote from: pg04 on November 13, 2016, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 13, 2016, 06:26:42 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 13, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Well, instead of JHU, Wesley lands John Carroll in the second round.  Besides being on the road, Mount Union got a pretty easy bracket, the easiest of the lot.....

-Ski

That is if they are any good.  Hobart is no easy game and neither is Johns Hopkins.  Alfred is pretty good too.  Mount will have to work to win those 3.

And provided form holds, Mount would have to beat all 3 teams on the road.

Watch mount roll through the bracket and those who have complained about no road playoff games cite the east centric bracket as it not really counting....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: pg04 on November 13, 2016, 06:38:53 PM
Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on November 13, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Damn, did Hobart get punished for getting in, and for MUC losing?  Instantly, the season went from a possible final 8-or-better run, to a let's-try-not-to-get-blasted-by-50-in-the-first-round campaign.  Mount will be an angry hive of hornets.   F*ck.

Well to be fair, they could have had Mount hosting Hobart, so at least Hobart is at home?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 13, 2016, 08:30:54 PM
We posted our interview with the NCAA Committee Chairman as a stand-alone podcast for now -- the rest of the show will be posted over the next day, as explained in the show's prologue.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2016/11/14/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 13, 2016, 08:51:39 PM
Ha. The fact that they ranked Frostburg over Fisher is pretty funny. They even ranked Salisbury too to help Frostburg.

The regional chair for the east is from the NJAC correct?

So buy trying to prop up their own team and ignoring playoff criteria they screwed the east from a pool C bid.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on November 13, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Damn, did Hobart get punished for getting in, and for MUC losing?  Instantly, the season went from a possible final 8-or-better run, to a let's-try-not-to-get-blasted-by-50-in-the-first-round campaign.  Mount will be an angry hive of hornets.   F*ck.

Take advantage of the opportunity of facing the least talented Mount team in 25 years.   The helmets will say "Raiders", but this isn't your daddy's Mount.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 14, 2016, 04:49:27 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on November 13, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Damn, did Hobart get punished for getting in, and for MUC losing?  Instantly, the season went from a possible final 8-or-better run, to a let's-try-not-to-get-blasted-by-50-in-the-first-round campaign.  Mount will be an angry hive of hornets.   F*ck.

Take advantage of the opportunity of facing the least talented Mount team in 25 years.   The helmets will say "Raiders", but this isn't your daddy's Mount.

Then how far have all of the teams fallen in the OAC outside of UMU and JCU?  You guys still murdered the rest of them. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 14, 2016, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on November 13, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Damn, did Hobart get punished for getting in, and for MUC losing?  Instantly, the season went from a possible final 8-or-better run, to a let's-try-not-to-get-blasted-by-50-in-the-first-round campaign.  Mount will be an angry hive of hornets.   F*ck.

Take advantage of the opportunity of facing the least talented Mount team in 25 years.   The helmets will say "Raiders", but this isn't your daddy's Mount.
Hey, no diminishing this potential Statesmen win, the Raiders do hold the trophy, although when I look at the stats from UMU's only competitive opponents Ohio Northern and JCU, it is encouraging. The size of the teams are comparable, Hobart's average Offensive Lineman is 6'3.5" and 287 pounds, while Mount's is 6'2" 288 pounds, Hobart's 4 DLs are 6'1" 264 and Mount's front 3 are 6'1" and 258 pounds, Hobart's LB's average is 6'0" 220 and Mount's are 5'11" /226 , the defensive backfields are similarly sized as are the running backs and receivers with the exception of Shed who is 6'4"....  I hear the speed and quickness is the essential difference between the LL and the top 10 programs and  we will see whether this is proven on Saturday.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Dr. Acula on November 14, 2016, 05:44:04 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 14, 2016, 05:30:32 PM
Hey, no diminishing this potential Statesmen win, the Raiders do hold the trophy, although when I look at the stats from UMU's only competitive opponents Ohio Northern and JCU, it is encouraging. The size of the teams are comparable, Hobart's average Offensive Lineman is 6'3.5" and 287 pounds, while Mount's is 6'2" 288 pounds, Hobart's 4 DLs are 6'1" 264 and Mount's front 3 are 6'1" and 258 pounds, Hobart's LB's average is 6'0" 220 and Mount's are 5'11" /226 , the defensive backfields are similarly sized as are the running backs and receivers with the exception of Shed who is 6'4"....  I hear the speed and quickness is the essential difference between the LL and the top 10 programs and  we will see whether this is proven on Saturday.

Rarely is size where Mount's advantage comes from.  It's nearly always speed.  But as HScoach said, this isn't your typical Mount team.  They have weaknesses that can be exploited (namely defending the pass).  If Hobart is proficient throwing the ball then they absolutely can win.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 14, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 14, 2016, 04:49:27 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 14, 2016, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: res ipsa loquitur on November 13, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
Damn, did Hobart get punished for getting in, and for MUC losing?  Instantly, the season went from a possible final 8-or-better run, to a let's-try-not-to-get-blasted-by-50-in-the-first-round campaign.  Mount will be an angry hive of hornets.   F*ck.

Take advantage of the opportunity of facing the least talented Mount team in 25 years.   The helmets will say "Raiders", but this isn't your daddy's Mount.

Then how far have all of the teams fallen in the OAC outside of UMU and JCU?  You guys still murdered the rest of them.

The OAC as a whole stinks.  There was a time, like the late 1990s and early 00s, where the conference was fighting like mad to catch Mount.   The last decade has been more like most of the schools have just given up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 14, 2016, 06:25:25 PM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on November 14, 2016, 05:44:04 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 14, 2016, 05:30:32 PM
Hey, no diminishing this potential Statesmen win, the Raiders do hold the trophy, although when I look at the stats from UMU's only competitive opponents Ohio Northern and JCU, it is encouraging. The size of the teams are comparable, Hobart's average Offensive Lineman is 6'3.5" and 287 pounds, while Mount's is 6'2" 288 pounds, Hobart's 4 DLs are 6'1" 264 and Mount's front 3 are 6'1" and 258 pounds, Hobart's LB's average is 6'0" 220 and Mount's are 5'11" /226 , the defensive backfields are similarly sized as are the running backs and receivers with the exception of Shed who is 6'4"....  I hear the speed and quickness is the essential difference between the LL and the top 10 programs and  we will see whether this is proven on Saturday.

Rarely is size where Mount's advantage comes from.  It's nearly always speed.  But as HScoach said, this isn't your typical Mount team.  They have weaknesses that can be exploited (namely defending the pass).  If Hobart is proficient throwing the ball then they absolutely can win.
Well then  , this could be our dream Mount Union matchup because this is the best passing attack in the history of the Hobart program...and certainly the best passing team the Mount has seen this season.We will see how  the speed, skill and coaching separates these teams...the $8 admission price should be well worth it
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 15, 2016, 10:24:25 AM
I wish I could see it in person. Made some reco's on the OAC board for those visiting Geneva for the first time. Doesn't look to be too cold this wkd but maybe wet.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 15, 2016, 11:01:34 AM
I know the game in Mayberry doesn't hold the same drama (on paper) as a few other matchups, but for anyone heading this way for saterday's game you can stock up on soup and pie at the Montessori School Bazaar  (http://"https://www.facebook.com/events/1825934977652581/")before kickoff.

On Saxon Warriors!!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2016, 11:09:25 AM
Silly question- Who will announce the ECAC games?
Do they have a team of announcers that will call all of the games?


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on November 15, 2016, 11:34:47 AM
I know the game in Mayberry doesn't hold the same drama (on paper) as a few other matchups, but for anyone heading this way for saterday's game you can stock up on soup and pie at the Montessori School Bazaar  (https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=alfred%20montessori%20school%20fall%20bazaar)before kickoff.

On Saxon Warriors!!!


Pep just hijacked KaZoo's post and fixed the link. Hehe. Hope this works.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 15, 2016, 11:40:30 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 15, 2016, 10:24:25 AM
I wish I could see it in person. Made some reco's on the OAC board for those visiting Geneva for the first time. Doesn't look to be too cold this wkd but maybe wet.
I am hoping for a dry day, but current forecast is rain...as I am afraid the run game of Mount Union will have the edge....although, it looks to be in the mid 50's. I still can't believe we are playing Mount Union at the Boz
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 15, 2016, 12:35:26 PM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2016, 11:09:25 AM
Silly question- Who will announce the ECAC games?
Do they have a team of announcers that will call all of the games?

Yes, Seth Kantor (former USMMA PBP guy, now voice of various NY college and AAA type programs) and Emory Hunt (aka @FootballGamePlan) will announce all the ECAC games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 15, 2016, 12:54:54 PM
Thank you!
Looking forward to the broadcast!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2016, 12:10:39 PM
Well the East has a chance to make a statement this week and next if the match up happens.  Hobart gets a shot at Mount this week, and even if they lose but make the game respectable that will show better than most of the OAC did.  Next week either Wesley ( I think they win this game) or Stevenson will likely play John Carroll, the team that beat Mount.  Again, a win would be great but a strong showing in a tough loss will prove that the top of the East is competitive with the top of the OAC.  Time for the East teams to put up or we will just have to shut up about the East being the weak link in D3.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 16, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 16, 2016, 12:10:39 PM
Well the East has a chance to make a statement this week and next if the match up happens.  Hobart gets a shot at Mount this week, and even if they lose but make the game respectable that will show better than most of the OAC did.  Next week either Wesley ( I think they win this game) or Stevenson will likely play John Carroll, the team that beat Mount.  Again, a win would be great but a strong showing in a tough loss will prove that the top of the East is competitive with the top of the OAC.  Time for the East teams to put up or we will just have to shut up about the East being the weak link in D3.
All true Wesleydad.....but we MUST bring down at least one of the OAC teams...no one remembers close games.....heck Hobart played Wesley close in 2011 with our second string QB the last time we got a tough matchup in the first round and no one cared.......2 wins and it is epic in changing perceptions
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 16, 2016, 06:11:23 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 16, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 16, 2016, 12:10:39 PM
Well the East has a chance to make a statement this week and next if the match up happens.  Hobart gets a shot at Mount this week, and even if they lose but make the game respectable that will show better than most of the OAC did.  Next week either Wesley ( I think they win this game) or Stevenson will likely play John Carroll, the team that beat Mount.  Again, a win would be great but a strong showing in a tough loss will prove that the top of the East is competitive with the top of the OAC.  Time for the East teams to put up or we will just have to shut up about the East being the weak link in D3.
All true Wesleydad.....but we MUST bring down at least one of the OAC teams...no one remembers close games.....heck Hobart played Wesley close in 2011 with our second string QB the last time we got a tough matchup in the first round and no one cared.......2 wins and it is epic in changing perceptions

The same year Fisher beat JCU at JCU they were also in a one possession game with Mary-Hardin Baylor at their palace in Texas until midway through the 4th quarter.  Then a Fisher DB dropped a sure interception right through his hands on what turned out to be a UMHB scoring drive to go up 2 scores.  Fisher gambled with a couple minutes to go on 4th down deep in their territory (because they had to) and failed to convert.  UMHB punched in a garbage score for good measure with a minute and a half to go to win by 3 scores.  It was so disappointing to me because that was a competitive, back and forth game with Fisher having huge momentum when they brought it back to a one score game in the 4th.  The final score didn't reflect how close it was and it just seemed like a convincing loss.  But Fisher was close to being an east team that beat a mighty foe from the OAC and then a top purple power all on the road, with an undefeated Hobart team sandwiched in between. 

As mentioned last night in the LL board - nobody even really talks about it outside of Fisher folks when it comes to the east proving itself in recent years.  But it's cool.  Our region's time is coming.  Here is to hoping Hobart takes the conversation to a whole new level this Saturday. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2016, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 16, 2016, 06:11:23 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 16, 2016, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 16, 2016, 12:10:39 PM
Well the East has a chance to make a statement this week and next if the match up happens.  Hobart gets a shot at Mount this week, and even if they lose but make the game respectable that will show better than most of the OAC did.  Next week either Wesley ( I think they win this game) or Stevenson will likely play John Carroll, the team that beat Mount.  Again, a win would be great but a strong showing in a tough loss will prove that the top of the East is competitive with the top of the OAC.  Time for the East teams to put up or we will just have to shut up about the East being the weak link in D3.
All true Wesleydad.....but we MUST bring down at least one of the OAC teams...no one remembers close games.....heck Hobart played Wesley close in 2011 with our second string QB the last time we got a tough matchup in the first round and no one cared.......2 wins and it is epic in changing perceptions

The same year Fisher beat JCU at JCU they were also in a one possession game with Mary-Hardin Baylor at their palace in Texas until midway through the 4th quarter.  Then a Fisher DB dropped a sure interception right through his hands on what turned out to be a UMHB scoring drive to go up 2 scores.  Fisher gambled with a couple minutes to go on 4th down deep in their territory (because they had to) and failed to convert.  UMHB punched in a garbage score for good measure with a minute and a half to go to win by 3 scores.  It was so disappointing to me because that was a competitive, back and forth game with Fisher having huge momentum when they brought it back to a one score game in the 4th.  The final score didn't reflect how close it was and it just seemed like a convincing loss.  But Fisher was close to being an east team that beat a mighty foe from the OAC and then a top purple power all on the road, with an undefeated Hobart team sandwiched in between. 

In reality, this was a 60-minute game and it was only a one-possession score for the first 11:27, three and a half minutes in the second quarter and 2:10 in the fourth. Fisher did get back into it after being down 29-6, for sure. But is a score with 97 seconds left a garbage-time score when you're up by 15?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 17, 2016, 06:01:21 AM
Yeah I suppose framing it as an insurance touchdown would be more appropriate.  I thought they could just take knees and run out the clock at that point, but I just looked back and I see Fisber was calling timeouts even with under 2 minutes to go.  So it's clear they weren't giving up and UMHB obliged them by continuing to play and scoring that final touchdown. 

Also, my memory failed me on that last Fisher drive.  It was a sack/forced fumble that ended the drive and not a failed 4th down conversion.  Moved the ball to near midfield and UMHB took over at the Fisher 49 after the fumble recovery.  So it wasn't "deep in Fisher territory" so much as it being as close to the edge of Fisher territory as humanly possible  :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2016, 08:12:26 AM
Boob- Im just as proud of you of Fisher that year....But are we going to talk Frostburg v Fisher  ;D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 17, 2016, 08:53:48 AM
I perpetually live in the past so I will talk about the Fisher vs Frostburg game in 2020.  Give or take a year.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2016, 10:13:37 AM
2020 it is....Lets hope there is a lot to talk about! :D
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 18, 2016, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 16, 2016, 12:10:39 PM
Well the East has a chance to make a statement this week and next if the match up happens.  Hobart gets a shot at Mount this week, and even if they lose but make the game respectable that will show better than most of the OAC did.  Next week either Wesley ( I think they win this game) or Stevenson will likely play John Carroll, the team that beat Mount.  Again, a win would be great but a strong showing in a tough loss will prove that the top of the East is competitive with the top of the OAC.  Time for the East teams to put up or we will just have to shut up about the East being the weak link in D3.

If this young Mount team, the one with the first conference loss since 2005 wins the East Region, the converse of this is even more true.  There's no shame in the great Mount teams consistently beating the East teams as Mount has done that with relative ease for 99% of D3 outside of UWW and MHB.  But if a flawed Mount team can do the same, that's much more damning than losing to the like of Kmic, Garcon, Shorts, etc.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2016, 01:37:25 PM
Quote from: HScoach on November 18, 2016, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 16, 2016, 12:10:39 PM
Well the East has a chance to make a statement this week and next if the match up happens.  Hobart gets a shot at Mount this week, and even if they lose but make the game respectable that will show better than most of the OAC did.  Next week either Wesley ( I think they win this game) or Stevenson will likely play John Carroll, the team that beat Mount.  Again, a win would be great but a strong showing in a tough loss will prove that the top of the East is competitive with the top of the OAC.  Time for the East teams to put up or we will just have to shut up about the East being the weak link in D3.

If this young Mount team, the one with the first conference loss since 2005 wins the East Region, the converse of this is even more true.  There's no shame in the great Mount teams consistently beating the East teams as Mount has done that with relative ease for 99% of D3 outside of UWW and MHB.  But if a flawed Mount team can do the same, that's much more damning than losing to the like of Kmic, Garcon, Shorts, etc.

Coach, I agree.  Sort of wish Wesley was in the east bracket also.  But getting a shot at John Carroll will be good enough if they get it done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2016, 02:30:38 PM
Yeah, not buying it.  Mount Union dominated this year.  So they lost a close game to JCU.  Those two teams have played at least a couple of tight games in recent years, this one finally swung in John Carroll's favor.  I expect Mount Union to win the region and perform near to the level we are accustomed to in the process. 

I do agree with you on the point it isn't the Mount teams that had generational talents like Kmic, Garçon or Cecil Shorts.  But at the same time - you will be facing a team in Hobart that all of their fans say isn't their best representative unit either...that this is a down year for them as well.  That logic goes both ways. 

I'd argue it was a down year for a lot of teams in the East compared to some of the teams fielded of yesteryear.  Look at the E8 - Fisher had a poorly performing defense, Cortland imploded, Ithaca has been down for a while, Buff State was mediocre, Morrisville fell off the planet, etc.  Alfred is a very solid team that I think can do a lot of damage in the playoffs, but I also don't think it's a coincidence this was the first team in the E8 to have an undefeated regular season in a long time.  They weren't challenged to the level that past E8 teams have been.  No fault of their own.  That's on everyone else.

I just don't think it's some hugely telling statement if Mount Union wins the region convincingly.  They're still an elite team and they're not facing our historic best either and that's the bottom line. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUKaz00 on November 18, 2016, 04:16:02 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2016, 02:30:38 PM
Yeah, not buying it.  Mount Union dominated this year.  So they lost a close game to JCU.  Those two teams have played at least a couple of tight games in recent years, this one finally swung in John Carroll's favor.  I expect Mount Union to win the region and perform near to the level we are accustomed to in the process. 

I do agree with you on the point it isn't the Mount teams that had generational talents like Kmic, Garçon or Cecil Shorts.  But at the same time - you will be facing a team in Hobart that all of their fans say isn't their best representative unit either...that this is a down year for them as well.  That logic goes both ways. 

I'd argue it was a down year for a lot of teams in the East compared to some of the teams fielded of yesteryear.  Look at the E8 - Fisher had a poorly performing defense, Cortland imploded, Ithaca has been down for a while, Buff State was mediocre, Morrisville fell off the planet, etc.  Alfred is a very solid team that I think can do a lot of damage in the playoffs, but I also don't think it's a coincidence this was the first team in the E8 to have an undefeated regular season in a long time.  They weren't challenged to the level that past E8 teams have been.  No fault of their own.  That's on everyone else.

I just don't think it's some hugely telling statement if Mount Union wins the region convincingly.  They're still an elite team and they're not facing our historic best either and that's the bottom line.

This is probably correct.  I still see UMU as a Tier 1 team and JCU as a Tier 2.  As the logic was for the tiers theory, a Tier 2 could beat a Tier 1, but everything had to break correctly.  I'd say a 4-0 turnover differential resulting in a 3 point win, just about captures that.  The Raiders have earned their 4 seed, but still remain a Tier 1 team so one of these Tier 2 East teams will need to execute and find a little fortune to repeat what the Blue Streaks were able to do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 18, 2016, 05:09:06 PM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2016, 02:30:38 PM
Yeah, not buying it.  Mount Union dominated this year.  So they lost a close game to JCU.  Those two teams have played at least a couple of tight games in recent years, this one finally swung in John Carroll's favor.  I expect Mount Union to win the region and perform near to the level we are accustomed to in the process. 

I do agree with you on the point it isn't the Mount teams that had generational talents like Kmic, Garçon or Cecil Shorts.  But at the same time - you will be facing a team in Hobart that all of their fans say isn't their best representative unit either...that this is a down year for them as well.  That logic goes both ways. 

I'd argue it was a down year for a lot of teams in the East compared to some of the teams fielded of yesteryear.  Look at the E8 - Fisher had a poorly performing defense, Cortland imploded, Ithaca has been down for a while, Buff State was mediocre, Morrisville fell off the planet, etc.  Alfred is a very solid team that I think can do a lot of damage in the playoffs, but I also don't think it's a coincidence this was the first team in the E8 to have an undefeated regular season in a long time.  They weren't challenged to the level that past E8 teams have been.  No fault of their own.  That's on everyone else.

I just don't think it's some hugely telling statement if Mount Union wins the region convincingly.  They're still an elite team and they're not facing our historic best either and that's the bottom line.

Post of the Year.

Alfred is not an elite team nor are any of the teams in the East this year. Bad year for region overall, and the expansion of NE football will continue to erode the likelihood any program from PA-NY-NE will ever be dominant enough to hang with less expensive schools in OH, MI and WI.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2016, 07:36:04 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2016, 02:30:38 PM
Yeah, not buying it.  Mount Union dominated this year.  So they lost a close game to JCU.  Those two teams have played at least a couple of tight games in recent years, this one finally swung in John Carroll's favor.  I expect Mount Union to win the region and perform near to the level we are accustomed to in the process. 

I do agree with you on the point it isn't the Mount teams that had generational talents like Kmic, Garçon or Cecil Shorts.  But at the same time - you will be facing a team in Hobart that all of their fans say isn't their best representative unit either...that this is a down year for them as well.  That logic goes both ways. 

I'd argue it was a down year for a lot of teams in the East compared to some of the teams fielded of yesteryear.  Look at the E8 - Fisher had a poorly performing defense, Cortland imploded, Ithaca has been down for a while, Buff State was mediocre, Morrisville fell off the planet, etc.  Alfred is a very solid team that I think can do a lot of damage in the playoffs, but I also don't think it's a coincidence this was the first team in the E8 to have an undefeated regular season in a long time.  They weren't challenged to the level that past E8 teams have been.  No fault of their own.  That's on everyone else.

I just don't think it's some hugely telling statement if Mount Union wins the region convincingly.  They're still an elite team and they're not facing our historic best either and that's the bottom line.

HScoach is one of the most knowledgeable Mount fans and I have known him for 10+ years.  He is also one of the most astute Mount fans when it comes to how good they are and how well they will do against any team.  If he thinks that this team is below the usual Mount standard than they probably are.  Now where does that put them against the rest of D3.  Are they probably good, yes, but if they have dropped a level from their usual then they could be beatable.  Hobart, who is also not as good as some prior teams according to some, will get first crack at them and has a chance to win the game.  Hopkins, a tier 2 team who has never made the next step will likely be the next team to get a crack at them if Hobart doesn't beat them.  This may be the best Hopkins team they have had and they should have a chance to beat Mount.  If Hopkins doesn't beat Mount then Alfred will get a chance and this may be the best Alfred team in some time so they should have a chance to beat Mount.  In the end 2 pretty good East teams and a very strong tier 2 team will get a chance to send Mount home.  Based on HScoach I think one of these teams will beat Mount.  Will it be easy, no, but someone will.  Add to that Wesley/Stevenson will get a chance to beat John Carroll and if it is Wesley, I think they will beat them.  The East has a chance to send the OAC packing, here is hoping that they get it done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 19, 2016, 08:14:16 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2016, 07:36:04 AM
Quote from: boobyhasgameyo on November 18, 2016, 02:30:38 PM
Yeah, not buying it.  Mount Union dominated this year.  So they lost a close game to JCU.  Those two teams have played at least a couple of tight games in recent years, this one finally swung in John Carroll's favor.  I expect Mount Union to win the region and perform near to the level we are accustomed to in the process. 

I do agree with you on the point it isn't the Mount teams that had generational talents like Kmic, Garçon or Cecil Shorts.  But at the same time - you will be facing a team in Hobart that all of their fans say isn't their best representative unit either...that this is a down year for them as well.  That logic goes both ways. 

I'd argue it was a down year for a lot of teams in the East compared to some of the teams fielded of yesteryear.  Look at the E8 - Fisher had a poorly performing defense, Cortland imploded, Ithaca has been down for a while, Buff State was mediocre, Morrisville fell off the planet, etc.  Alfred is a very solid team that I think can do a lot of damage in the playoffs, but I also don't think it's a coincidence this was the first team in the E8 to have an undefeated regular season in a long time.  They weren't challenged to the level that past E8 teams have been.  No fault of their own.  That's on everyone else.

I just don't think it's some hugely telling statement if Mount Union wins the region convincingly.  They're still an elite team and they're not facing our historic best either and that's the bottom line.

HScoach is one of the most knowledgeable Mount fans and I have known him for 10+ years.  He is also one of the most astute Mount fans when it comes to how good they are and how well they will do against any team.  If he thinks that this team is below the usual Mount standard than they probably are.  Now where does that put them against the rest of D3.  Are they probably good, yes, but if they have dropped a level from their usual then they could be beatable.  Hobart, who is also not as good as some prior teams according to some, will get first crack at them and has a chance to win the game.  Hopkins, a tier 2 team who has never made the next step will likely be the next team to get a crack at them if Hobart doesn't beat them.  This may be the best Hopkins team they have had and they should have a chance to beat Mount.  If Hopkins doesn't beat Mount then Alfred will get a chance and this may be the best Alfred team in some time so they should have a chance to beat Mount.  In the end 2 pretty good East teams and a very strong tier 2 team will get a chance to send Mount home.  Based on HScoach I think one of these teams will beat Mount.  Will it be easy, no, but someone will.  Add to that Wesley/Stevenson will get a chance to beat John Carroll and if it is Wesley, I think they will beat them.  The East has a chance to send the OAC packing, here is hoping that they get it done.
All good analysis.....now time to play...carpe diem ....
Good luck to the East this year
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 19, 2016, 08:51:13 AM
Dlip is really hoping for a WNE win today. However for some reason, maybe a feeling, he thinks Husson may take it. This is a great playoff game for the NE area as a whole and represents the growth of the level of play within the region over the last decade. Best of luck to both teams. Hoping for competitive injury free playoff football today!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: res ipsa loquitur on November 19, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
Looks like the weather may hold.  Go get em today, Hobart!

And best of luck Alfred, hoping we may get to see you down the road.  Gotta date with Goliath first........
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on October 17, 2017, 11:48:14 AM
Figured I'd revive this thread. So with 4 weeks left to go we've got:

CCC:
WNE, Salve and Curry in the mix. Schedule is back loaded, but we should have a good idea how this shakes out by 10/28 when WNE plays Salve and then on 11/4 when Curry plays WNE.

E8:
Brockport appears to be the clear front runner, and potential 1 seed if last season's Alfred team set a precedence. ALF does play BP on 11/4, but based on what I've seen with the Eagles, I don't know if the Saxons can catch them.

ECFC:
Basically Husson has clinched, beating SUNY and CSU H2H. Gallaudet game this wkd is probably final hurdle. It's about 350 miles from Bangor to Springfield, so I'm penciling in a Pride vs. Eagles Rd 1 game, since the NCAA will probably avoid doing a rematch with WNE (assuming they won the CCC).

LL:
Big game for Statesmen Saturday vs Union considering SLU and UofR appear to be fading. If Union wins, they're the favorite pending H2H vs. IC and RPI.

MAC:
Feels like DVC is the class of the league. Only real challenger I see is Widener, which they don't play until Wk 11.

MASCAC:
Down goes FSU, which makes things interesting given West Conn beat the Panthers. Similar to LL, could come down to tiebreakers pending if West Conn beats FSU on 11/4 and if anyone trips up PSU.

NEWMAC:
SC and MIT are tied in the standings and don't play until Wk 11. WPI is lurking at 2-1, but has a H2H loss to SC.

NJAC:
Wesley and Salisbury are 5-0, with Frostburg on outside looking in at 4-1 with the H2H OT loss to the Wolverines. Sea Gulls and Wolverines play on 11/4.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on October 17, 2017, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on October 17, 2017, 11:48:14 AM
Figured I'd revive this thread. So with 4 weeks left to go we've got:

CCC:
WNE, Salve and Curry in the mix. Schedule is back loaded, but we should have a good idea how this shakes out by 10/28 when WNE plays Salve and then on 11/4 when Curry plays WNE.

E8:
Brockport appears to be the clear front runner, and potential 1 seed if last season's Alfred team set a precedence. ALF does play BP on 11/4, but based on what I've seen with the Eagles, I don't know if the Saxons can catch them.

ECFC:
Basically Husson has clinched, beating SUNY and CSU H2H. Gallaudet game this wkd is probably final hurdle. It's about 350 miles from Bangor to Springfield, so I'm penciling in a Pride vs. Eagles Rd 1 game, since the NCAA will probably avoid doing a rematch with WNE (assuming they won the CCC).

LL:
Big game for Statesmen Saturday vs Union considering SLU and UofR appear to be fading. If Union wins, they're the favorite pending H2H vs. IC and RPI.

MAC:
Feels like DVC is the class of the league. Only real challenger I see is Widener, which they don't play until Wk 11.

MASCAC:
Down goes FSU, which makes things interesting given West Conn beat the Panthers. Similar to LL, could come down to tiebreakers pending if West Conn beats FSU on 11/4 and if anyone trips up PSU.

NEWMAC:
SC and MIT are tied in the standings and don't play until Wk 11. WPI is lurking at 2-1, but has a H2H loss to SC.

NJAC:
Wesley and Salisbury are 5-0, with Frostburg on outside looking in at 4-1 with the H2H OT loss to the Wolverines. Sea Gulls and Wolverines play on 11/4.

+k ITH for the breakdown! If indeed the Pride and Husson face off in Springfield for the first round dlip will be there!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on October 17, 2017, 12:49:18 PM
The LL is a total mess thanks to the RPI win over IC.

I think we're heading for a three way tie (IC, RPI, and Bart) but none of those teams have really distinguished themselves. Two got whipped by Brockport. RPI has a loss to a middle-of-the-pack Buffalo State.

Brockport will win the E8 handily, IMO. Alfred just doesn't have the offensive horses. But the Saxons loss takes some shine off of that win
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on October 17, 2017, 01:34:39 PM
Yeah it is and I think you're probably right re the tie.

I found it interesting that BP is only sitting with a SOS of 49, which isn't bad, but it's not great either. Buff St and Alfred games will help that, but the Hartwick and SLU ones probably negate those. Now that NCC has a loss it would seem like the likely 1's will be 3 obvious ones of:

UMHB, UMU and UWO

....and it'll be btw DVC and BP on the 1 for the final bracket, with the edge probably going to DVC given the Wk 1 win over Wesley, and Widener who theoretically could be 7-2 when they play DVC in Wk 11 and should be in the ERR Top 10.

BP will probably get at least two ERR wins if Hobart takes the LL and they'd be helped if BSU (4-2) and Alfred (5-1) finish strong (but still lost to them down the stretch). With Wesley > Hobart in the eyes of the Comm, I'd say BP ends up lower than DVC as the LL and E8 both seem down this season.

Given BP's geo location, I could see them paired in a bracket with a team like UWO, given what we saw with Hobart in 2012, but most likely they'd be the #2 in a bracket with UMU. I could then see it set up so DVC plays teams from like ODAC, PAC, etc. and ultimately end up going to UMHB, if they can run the gamut, which may not happen.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on October 17, 2017, 01:42:14 PM
I going to be honest here, I can only see Wesley, Brockport, Delaware Valley, Frostburg State, and maybe Springfield winning more than two games in the playoffs. Unfortunately, of those teams, they are most likely going be playing each other second round and if not playing Mount Union or getting shipped to Linfield (I know Linfield fans would love for Wesley go play out there). 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.

I think its safe to say that Husson in the current format will always play a team from NE due to travel limitation.  Regardless if seeds are very near or far in between. This results in a higher seed playing another higher seed in the 1st round. Is it right? I don't know, however to be fair, regardless of when you play a team you have to win the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on October 20, 2017, 04:19:22 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.

I think its safe to say that Husson in the current format will always play a team from NE due to travel limitation.  Regardless if seeds are very near or far in between. This results in a higher seed playing another higher seed in the 1st round. Is it right? I don't know, however to be fair, regardless of when you play a team you have to win the game.

Of course it's not right.

There's no debate.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: bman on October 20, 2017, 07:40:33 PM
Quote from: Upstate on October 20, 2017, 04:19:22 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.

I think its safe to say that Husson in the current format will always play a team from NE due to travel limitation.  Regardless if seeds are very near or far in between. This results in a higher seed playing another higher seed in the 1st round. Is it right? I don't know, however to be fair, regardless of when you play a team you have to win the game.

Of course it's not right.

There's no debate.
We should ask the entire D3 Texas crew about their opinion on it...since that rule scr@ws them just about every year... ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on October 23, 2017, 01:26:07 PM
Not many changes going into Wk 9, but here's the latest:

CCC - Still a 3-team race btw WNE, Salve and Curry. Hawks and Bears play Saturday setting up Elimination Game 1
ECFC - Husson
E8 - Brockport
LL - Union in drivers seat but still needs to beat IC and RPI. If IC beats Union on 11/4, IC wins the LL if Union beats RPI in Shoes game on 11/11. If Union wins and RPI stays at 1 loss in LL play, the winner of that Shoes game is the Pool A winner.
MAC - DelVal, but Widener keeping place for potential Wk 11 showdown
MASCAC - Plymouth St, Fram St and West Conn still in mix
NEWMAC - SC and MIT in top spot, big game btw WPI and MIT this weekend.
NJAC - Still Wesley and Salisbury at top, with Frostburg hoping to go 9-1 and get a Pool C. Round robin of Wes vs. Sals in Wk 10 and Frostburg vs. Sals in Wk 11 will decide the champion.

If I did a mock regional ranking, the Top 5 would be pretty straightforward:

1. DVC
2. BP
3. SC (although I could see them as 4 bc of Wes having a win over RRO whereas I doubt SC will)
4. WES
5. Frosty

After that it gets a little tricky. This wkd will clear some of this up, maybe.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on October 23, 2017, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.

I think its safe to say that Husson in the current format will always play a team from NE due to travel limitation.  Regardless if seeds are very near or far in between. This results in a higher seed playing another higher seed in the 1st round. Is it right? I don't know, however to be fair, regardless of when you play a team you have to win the game.

But hey, what about a neutral site? You know, Husson (about 2 hour trip) and Linfield (about 1 hour trip) could meet up in Portland!!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2017, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 23, 2017, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.

I think its safe to say that Husson in the current format will always play a team from NE due to travel limitation.  Regardless if seeds are very near or far in between. This results in a higher seed playing another higher seed in the 1st round. Is it right? I don't know, however to be fair, regardless of when you play a team you have to win the game.

But hey, what about a neutral site? You know, Husson (about 2 hour trip) and Linfield (about 1 hour trip) could meet up in Portland!!

I wish we had a portal to merge the two Portlands together like that. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: AUPepBand on October 23, 2017, 04:17:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 23, 2017, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on October 23, 2017, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on October 20, 2017, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: ccd494 on October 20, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
Seems like Husson could geographically reach anyone in the CCC, NEWMAC or MASCAC mix except Western Connecticut.  RPI is a narrow miss.

I think its safe to say that Husson in the current format will always play a team from NE due to travel limitation.  Regardless if seeds are very near or far in between. This results in a higher seed playing another higher seed in the 1st round. Is it right? I don't know, however to be fair, regardless of when you play a team you have to win the game.

But hey, what about a neutral site? You know, Husson (about 2 hour trip) and Linfield (about 1 hour trip) could meet up in Portland!!

I wish we had a portal to merge the two Portlands together like that. :)

Years ago, Pep was singing with a church group that included AU students....to the left was a young man from Portland, OR (one of the five co-founders of the AU Pep Kazoo Band in 1999) and to the right was a young lady from Portland, ME. Pep was that portal connecting the two.

Perhaps that was the subconscious reason Pep went coast-to-coast in his PT Cruiser last summer...to connect the Ports once again.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on October 24, 2017, 11:39:26 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on October 23, 2017, 01:26:07 PM
Not many changes going into Wk 9, but here's the latest:

CCC - Still a 3-team race btw WNE, Salve and Curry. Hawks and Bears play Saturday setting up Elimination Game 1
ECFC - Husson
E8 - Brockport
LL - Union in drivers seat but still needs to beat IC and RPI. If IC beats Union on 11/4, IC wins the LL if Union beats RPI in Shoes game on 11/11. If Union wins and RPI stays at 1 loss in LL play, the winner of that Shoes game is the Pool A winner.
MAC - DelVal, but Widener keeping place for potential Wk 11 showdown
MASCAC - Plymouth St, Fram St and West Conn still in mix
NEWMAC - SC and MIT in top spot, big game btw WPI and MIT this weekend.
NJAC - Still Wesley and Salisbury at top, with Frostburg hoping to go 9-1 and get a Pool C. Round robin of Wes vs. Sals in Wk 10 and Frostburg vs. Sals in Wk 11 will decide the champion.

If I did a mock regional ranking, the Top 5 would be pretty straightforward:

1. DVC
2. BP
3. SC (although I could see them as 4 bc of Wes having a win over RRO whereas I doubt SC will)
4. WES
5. Frosty

After that it gets a little tricky. This wkd will clear some of this up, maybe.

RR's will be interesting for the East.  When do they come out?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wally_wabash on October 24, 2017, 12:11:45 PM
Nov. 1 wesleydad.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on October 24, 2017, 12:54:20 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 24, 2017, 12:11:45 PM
Nov. 1 wesleydad.

thanks.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 04, 2017, 08:07:07 PM
ICYMI - and thx to Pat for sharing this earlier to help promote this wrap-around show.

https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/1469898976442576/

Of particular note is the 2hr 14 min mark when you can see the brutal hit BP QB Joe Germiniero took in their game vs Alfred. Also shows the crazy ending of West Conn - FSU that gave Plymouth the MASCAC title.

Great day of d3fb
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 05, 2017, 08:14:37 AM
The results this week set up some interesting scenarios for the East.  One that I am looking at is the fact that the MASCAC may have a chance to get 2 teams in the playoffs.  Plymouth St. has the AQ by virtue of their win over Framingham.  With a win Framingham will be 9-1.  After seeing Salisbury yesterday they have a good chance to beat Frostburg leaving both teams at 8-2.  With Union, W. Conn, and Curry all losing yesterday you would figure that Framingham moves into the RR.  If Salisbury does beat Frostburg it would look like Framingham could/would be the first team on the board from the east unless Springfield does not get the pool B bid, I think they will, but you never know.  If Framingham is on the board at the start they are not likely to be passed over 5 times.  Now this is all mute if Widener somehow beats Del Val and wins the MAC AQ.  If that plays out then Del Val would be the first team up for the east.  The first RR shows that the East committee does not have a bias against the New England schools so this is a real distinct possibility.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2017, 04:25:29 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 04, 2017, 08:07:07 PM
https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/1469898976442576/

Of particular note is the 2hr 14 min mark when you can see the brutal hit BP QB Joe Germiniero took in their game vs Alfred.

OH! Wow. I don't know what I was expecting to see, but I knew it was bad from the comments elsewhere. And what I saw was worse than I expected. :(
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 06, 2017, 10:29:08 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 05, 2017, 08:14:37 AM
The results this week set up some interesting scenarios for the East.  One that I am looking at is the fact that the MASCAC may have a chance to get 2 teams in the playoffs.  Plymouth St. has the AQ by virtue of their win over Framingham.  With a win Framingham will be 9-1.  After seeing Salisbury yesterday they have a good chance to beat Frostburg leaving both teams at 8-2.  With Union, W. Conn, and Curry all losing yesterday you would figure that Framingham moves into the RR.  If Salisbury does beat Frostburg it would look like Framingham could/would be the first team on the board from the east unless Springfield does not get the pool B bid, I think they will, but you never know.  If Framingham is on the board at the start they are not likely to be passed over 5 times.  Now this is all mute if Widener somehow beats Del Val and wins the MAC AQ.  If that plays out then Del Val would be the first team up for the east.  The first RR shows that the East committee does not have a bias against the New England schools so this is a real distinct possibility.

Good breakdown, Wesleydad. As always I am very hopeful for the RAMS. Over the past few weeks, I have been trying to figure out how we could get in. I think that it will either be very interesting when RR come out or very disappointing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 08, 2017, 12:18:14 PM
We did predict in our last episode the Rams would be in the ERR, but not high enough to likely garner a C bid. Will likely end up in NE Bowl or perhaps ECACs, although so far no MASCAC teams have declared as of yet.

Will post our reactions to the 2nd round of rankings around 3:15 PM today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
Well, here we are.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/second-regional-ranking

Damn you St. John Fisher, you had to beat Cortland too, huh?! It is going to take some serious mayhem for us to get a remote chance. So I guess we will be playing WNE in the New England Bowl. A good matchup between great upcoming programs with great coaches.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 08, 2017, 03:43:46 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
Well, here we are.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/second-regional-ranking

Damn you St. John Fisher, you had to beat Cortland too, huh?! It is going to take some serious mayhem for us to get a remote chance. So I guess we will be playing WNE in the New England Bowl. A good matchup between great upcoming programs with great coaches.

I disagree D3.  It seems to me the only result you need is to have Salisbury beat Frostburg giving them 2 losses and dropping them down.  I doubt a 2 loss Salisbury jumps in since they lost to Albright.  Remove Frostburg and Framingham is the first team up unless Springfield does not get the pool B.  If that happens then Framingham has no chance to get a C.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bombers798891 on November 08, 2017, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
Well, here we are.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/second-regional-ranking

Damn you St. John Fisher, you had to beat Cortland too, huh?! It is going to take some serious mayhem for us to get a remote chance. So I guess we will be playing WNE in the New England Bowl. A good matchup between great upcoming programs with great coaches.

The 80-point loss the Red Dragons are fixin to take this weekend isn't going to help you either!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2017, 03:57:12 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 08, 2017, 03:43:46 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on November 08, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
Well, here we are.

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2017/second-regional-ranking

Damn you St. John Fisher, you had to beat Cortland too, huh?! It is going to take some serious mayhem for us to get a remote chance. So I guess we will be playing WNE in the New England Bowl. A good matchup between great upcoming programs with great coaches.

I disagree D3.  It seems to me the only result you need is to have Salisbury beat Frostburg giving them 2 losses and dropping them down.  I doubt a 2 loss Salisbury jumps in since they lost to Albright.  Remove Frostburg and Framingham is the first team up unless Springfield does not get the pool B.  If that happens then Framingham has no chance to get a C.


Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: d3fan142511 on November 09, 2017, 09:37:39 AM
WNE won their conference and is going to the NCAA's
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 10, 2017, 09:57:51 AM
Quote from: d3fan142511 on November 09, 2017, 09:37:39 AM
WNE won their conference and is going to the NCAA's

Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 10, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
It's crazy that Frostburg may be left out if they win this weekend based on the projections. I guess joining the NJAC has its benefits, however with only having one OOC game, it sets our SOS only around .500
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 10, 2017, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 10, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
It's crazy that Frostburg may be left out if they win this weekend based on the projections. I guess joining the NJAC has its benefits, however with only having one OOC game, it sets our SOS only around .500

Why do you think Wesley scheduled Del Val for the last two years?

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 10, 2017, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 10, 2017, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 10, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
It's crazy that Frostburg may be left out if they win this weekend based on the projections. I guess joining the NJAC has its benefits, however with only having one OOC game, it sets our SOS only around .500

Why do you think Wesley scheduled Del Val for the last two years?

-Ski

That may have been contractual as part of the NJAC/MAC Challenge. The NJAC may need to go to two OOC games while ensuring the top half teams from the previous two seasons play each other each year.

Edit: I think SoVA is leaving for the ODAC, so that opens things up a bit.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jknezek on November 10, 2017, 02:48:07 PM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 10, 2017, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 10, 2017, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 10, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
It's crazy that Frostburg may be left out if they win this weekend based on the projections. I guess joining the NJAC has its benefits, however with only having one OOC game, it sets our SOS only around .500

Why do you think Wesley scheduled Del Val for the last two years?

-Ski

That may have been contractual as part of the NJAC/MAC Challenge. The NJAC may need to go to two OOC games while ensuring the top half teams from the previous two seasons play each other each year.

Edit: I think SoVA is leaving for the ODAC, so that opens things up a bit.

Yes. For some unknown reason we are taking both Ferrum and SoVa. One or the other I understood. Both makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 10, 2017, 03:30:10 PM
Quote
That may have been contractual as part of the NJAC/MAC Challenge. The NJAC may need to go to two OOC games while ensuring the top half teams from the previous two seasons play each other each year.

Edit: I think SoVA is leaving for the ODAC, so that opens things up a bit.

I think it was more calculated than you think.  Wesley traditional tries to get tougher games and that comes from being a B Pool team trying to get the few open slots each year.  Sure, they had to deal with some really poor teams in the past, but that was out of necessity as conference teams wouldn't pick Wesley as their OOC game with the risk of losing (or were in the middle of their conference play of course).  This went on for quite a long while.  Get back with me when we see next year's schedule and we will see who Wesley plays that first week!  ;)  Strength of schedule means something in DIII......

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 11, 2017, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 10, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
It's crazy that Frostburg may be left out if they win this weekend based on the projections. I guess joining the NJAC has its benefits, however with only having one OOC game, it sets our SOS only around .500

if frostburg wins they are likely in.  the issue would be if sprigfield doesnt get the pool b bid and has to go in as a pool c.  That would block frostburg until springfield gets chosen and there are only 5 pool c slots.  if springfield is the pool b then frostburg will be the first up for the east and it would be unlikely that they would not get selected at all.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 11, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 11, 2017, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 10, 2017, 12:00:26 PM
It's crazy that Frostburg may be left out if they win this weekend based on the projections. I guess joining the NJAC has its benefits, however with only having one OOC game, it sets our SOS only around .500

if frostburg wins they are likely in.  the issue would be if sprigfield doesnt get the pool b bid and has to go in as a pool c.  That would block frostburg until springfield gets chosen and there are only 5 pool c slots.  if springfield is the pool b then frostburg will be the first up for the east and it would be unlikely that they would not get selected at all.

Well neither Frostburg nor Salisbury looked playoff ready today with penalties. Defense was very good, but they escaped today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: @d3jason on November 11, 2017, 06:44:31 PM
Crazy ending in the Case Western Carnegie-Mellon game. Sorry I gave up on watching it. Hard lesson on sportsmanship.

That could hurt the Bobcats chances but Depauw did lose to Wabash, so that should help.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3viewer on November 11, 2017, 07:28:55 PM
Most people on these boards have a better handle on the way the NCAA seeds and brackets teams than I do for sure. Honestly over the years I have not paid too much attn. to these conversations (maybe because Brockport has not been involved). So, that being said...is there any chance the committee would send RPI (8-2) to Brockport (10-0) for a first round game ? The match up seems about fair. It would also give us a more "legit"/ meaningful E8/LL "bowl game" (they still call the College Football Playoff games "bowl games") than the current rematch of Cortaca for the official 2nd place bowl game.
So it would be a de facto regional/Upstate Championship which would hopefully garner some decent interest. It helps that Brockport and RPI didn't meet during the season to add to the flavor of the game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 11, 2017, 08:37:36 PM
That would be cool, but the NCAA has to find first round opponents for the three lower seeded NE teams -- Husson, Plymouth State and Western New England -- that are unlikely to get a first round home game. Husson can only get to Springfield which leaves Plymouth State and Western New England in some combination for Del Val and Brockport. Assuming DVU stays the top seed, they likely draw unranked WNEU and the Golden Eagles get Plymouth State.

My guess is RPI goes to Wesley or JHU.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 14, 2017, 09:38:52 AM
DVU Final Four Bound.... Lock It Down.....You're Welcome all those who cash and not trash their tickets. Double Deuces....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 14, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Wow. Brought you out of hiding. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 14, 2017, 04:13:36 PM
But where's Holladawg and Enginegro with RPI being in the tourney....
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 15, 2017, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 14, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Wow. Brought you out of hiding. :)

Hope your well Gordon... Go Aggies!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: PBR... on November 15, 2017, 09:15:51 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 14, 2017, 04:13:36 PM
But where's Holladawg and Enginegro with RPI being in the tourney....

Believe it or not they were looking live at the shoes game last weekend bringing the house down and munching on wings and beer afterwards...
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 17, 2017, 10:04:22 AM
Plymouth State is winning this thing. Been like a decade since I been on here, surprised I remembered my password but I had to chime in on that one!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: fisheralum91 on November 17, 2017, 10:07:43 AM
Reno- glad to have you back......But it may be a while before we see you again as Plymouth will indeed not win.
tho i like your loyalty!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: dlippiel on November 17, 2017, 10:33:06 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 17, 2017, 10:04:22 AM
Plymouth State is winning this thing. Been like a decade since I been on here, surprised I remembered my password but I had to chime in on that one!

Reno! +k
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 17, 2017, 10:58:05 AM
Here's our Rd 1 preview. Tons of interviews and content. A timeline is below to help skip along to whatever ones you're most interested in:

https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/1481004921998648/

0:00:45 - Discussion of Endicott College parting ways with Kevin DeWall as Head Coach

0:09:00 - Game Preview 1 - Western New England at Delaware Valley, including interviews with WNE Sr. QB Anthony Service, Sr. Safety Sam Olsson, & Head Coach Keith Emery

0:26:00 - Game Preview 2 - Plymouth State at Brockport, including an interview with Brockport So. QB Joe Germinerio

0:42:00 - Game Preview 3 - RPI at Wesley, including interviews with RPI Sr. DL Diego Cuitino, Fr. QB George Marinopoulos, & Head Coach Ralph Isernia

1:06:00 - Game Preview 4 - Husson at Springfield, including interviews with Springfield Jr. DE Nick Giorgio, Sr. LB Dominick Traversa, & Head Coach Mike Cerasuolo

1:19:00 - Game Preview 5 - Frostburg State at Wittenberg, including an interview with Frostburg State Head Coach DeLane Fitzgerald

1:38:00 - "Frank & James Predict the Games"

PLEASE remember to "Share" this video -- a lot of work went into this preview, and we want as many families and friends of these players, coaches, and teams to see the interviews and hear the discussions as we prepare for a great weekend of playoff football!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 17, 2017, 11:32:35 AM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 17, 2017, 10:58:05 AM
Here's our Rd 1 preview. Tons of interviews and content. A timeline is below to help skip along to whatever ones you're most interested in:

https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/1481004921998648/

0:00:45 - Discussion of Endicott College parting ways with Kevin DeWall as Head Coach

0:09:00 - Game Preview 1 - Western New England at Delaware Valley, including interviews with WNE Sr. QB Anthony Service, Sr. Safety Sam Olsson, & Head Coach Keith Emery

0:26:00 - Game Preview 2 - Plymouth State at Brockport, including an interview with Brockport So. QB Joe Germinerio

0:42:00 - Game Preview 3 - RPI at Wesley, including interviews with RPI Sr. DL Diego Cuitino, Fr. QB George Marinopoulos, & Head Coach Ralph Isernia

1:06:00 - Game Preview 4 - Husson at Springfield, including interviews with Springfield Jr. DE Nick Giorgio, Sr. LB Dominick Traversa, & Head Coach Mike Cerasuolo

1:19:00 - Game Preview 5 - Frostburg State at Wittenberg, including an interview with Frostburg State Head Coach DeLane Fitzgerald

1:38:00 - "Frank & James Predict the Games"

PLEASE remember to "Share" this video -- a lot of work went into this preview, and we want as many families and friends of these players, coaches, and teams to see the interviews and hear the discussions as we prepare for a great weekend of playoff football!

Will there be discussion of New England Bowls as well after the playoff discussions?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 17, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
Yes, next week we plan to cover the bowls, including NE, NY, CC-MAC and ECACs, along with the 5 east region playoff games.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Reno Hightower on November 17, 2017, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2017, 10:33:06 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 17, 2017, 10:04:22 AM
Plymouth State is winning this thing. Been like a decade since I been on here, surprised I remembered my password but I had to chime in on that one!

Reno! +k

Dlip, good to see you still hanging around. Im not used to getting +karma, I like my karma negative.

Also, we are enemies now as Union is the college that I despise the most in the world. Not enough bad can happen to them after the Audino situation.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Machiavelli on November 17, 2017, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 17, 2017, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: dlip on November 17, 2017, 10:33:06 AM
Quote from: Reno Hightower on November 17, 2017, 10:04:22 AM
Plymouth State is winning this thing. Been like a decade since I been on here, surprised I remembered my password but I had to chime in on that one!

Reno! +k

Dlip, good to see you still hanging around. Im not used to getting +karma, I like my karma negative.

Also, we are enemies now as Union is the college that I despise the most in the world. Not enough bad can happen to them after the Audino situation.

BRING BACK AUDINO! BRING BACK FRANK! BRING BACK AUDINO! BRING BACK FRANK!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on November 17, 2017, 03:31:35 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on November 17, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
Yes, next week we plan to cover the bowls, including NE, NY, CC-MAC and ECACs, along with the 5 east region playoff games.

Great show!  Thanks!   ;)

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on November 18, 2017, 05:22:01 PM
Not sure if it was me, but over heard the announcers calling the Linfield v. HSU  take a stab at ER teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2017, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on November 18, 2017, 05:22:01 PM
Not sure if it was me, but over heard the announcers calling the Linfield v. HSU  take a stab at ER teams.

Tired if it. The north region 3 and 4 get trounced today.  Frostburg crushes Wittenberg. And Frostburg doesn't even win the NJAC. If Mount is not in the north they get nothing.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2017, 08:34:21 PM
Congrats to the former South Region teams who have been moved north of the Mason-Dixon Line, Frostburg St and Wesley!.

I can even remember when the MAC was a South Region Conference!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 19, 2017, 09:20:56 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 18, 2017, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: D3MAFAN on November 18, 2017, 05:22:01 PM
Not sure if it was me, but over heard the announcers calling the Linfield v. HSU  take a stab at ER teams.

Tired if it. The north region 3 and 4 get trounced today.  Frostburg crushes Wittenberg. And Frostburg doesn't even win the NJAC. If Mount is not in the north they get nothing.

Not surprise, I didn't catch the game, but we can't control the NCAA budgets and Institutional budgets to have cross-sectional games. I do believe that the West Region is top notch and the talent pool is not as diluted as the East. However, our representative has played well against them over the year's, haven't won the very big game. We have had some year's where teams have gotten overwhelmed, but for the most part have held there own against the Tier I teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 19, 2017, 09:31:30 AM
Final 16 region breakdown

East - 5 Del Val, Husson, Brockport, Wesley, Frostburg  Guarenteed 2 or 3 in final 8
North - 3 Mount Union, North Central, Trine Possible 0 to 3 in final 8
South - 4 UMHB, Berry, CWRU, W&J Possible 0 to 4 in final 8
West - 4 Oshkosh, St. Thomas, Wartburg, Linfield Possible 0 - 4 in final 8

Next weeks games
E v E
E v E
S v W - S favored
S v W - W favored
W v N - W favored
W v N - toss up
N v S - N favored
S v E - toss up

Did the east get lucky to have its own bracket?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 19, 2017, 09:41:22 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2017, 09:31:30 AM
Final 16 region breakdown

East - 5 Del Val, Husson, Brockport, Wesley, Frostburg  Guarenteed 2 or 3 in final 8
North - 3 Mount Union, North Central, Trine Possible 0 to 3 in final 8
South - 4 UMHB, Berry, CWRU, W&J Possible 0 to 4 in final 8
West - 4 Oshkosh, St. Thomas, Wartburg, Linfield Possible 0 - 4 in final 8

Next weeks games
E v E
E v E
S v W - S favored
S v W - W favored
W v N - W favored
W v N - toss up
N v S - N favored
S v E - toss up

Did the east get lucky to have its own bracket?

I think its better, but we had multiple undefeated teams this year. In year's past(all hypothetical), Brockport would have went to Mount Union, Wesley to UMHB, and Del Val gets upset or something like that. Then the following only 1 east team that upsets Del Val losses 55-20 to National Champ.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 19, 2017, 10:44:43 AM
In general, the eastern bracket performed as expected, with a slight surprise as Husson confirmed their legitimacy and Springfield's weaker schedule showed yesterday(no way they would have been undefeated had they remained in the LL). I felt RPI would be well prepared and play with discipline as they did for almost 3 quarters, but those 2 interceptions thrown my Marinopoulos were killers (pretty much right to the Wesley DBs at the Wesley 1 and the last into the Endzone) ....  I am not saying RPI may have won except for those Int's because the Wesley offense is impossible to contain for an entire game, at least for a LL defense..... I do think an issue for Wesley seems to be waiting until the second half to get all cylinders firing, which I think  is a bad sign for them in the next round (take it from a Hobart fan whose team lived last year on this formula and died this year on it). Wesley cannot wait until the second half against Brockport. As far as Delaware Valley, I am not sure (other than the early season Wesley game) they have been tested so, Husson is capable of an underdog "RPI " performance and scaring DelVal, but  I am thinking a Delaware Valley-Brockport match-up in 2 weeks .
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2017, 02:47:31 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 19, 2017, 09:31:30 AM
Final 16 region breakdown

East - 5 Del Val, Husson, Brockport, Wesley, Frostburg  Guarenteed 2 or 3 in final 8
North - 3 Mount Union, North Central, Trine Possible 0 to 3 in final 8
South - 4 UMHB, Berry, CWRU, W&J Possible 0 to 4 in final 8
West - 4 Oshkosh, St. Thomas, Wartburg, Linfield Possible 0 - 4 in final 8

Next weeks games
E v E
E v E
S v W - S favored
S v W - W favored
W v N - W favored
W v N - toss up
N v S - N favored
S v E - toss up

Did the east get lucky to have its own bracket?

Quote from: Bartman on November 19, 2017, 10:44:43 AM
In general, the eastern bracket performed as expected, with a slight surprise as Husson confirmed their legitimacy and Springfield's weaker schedule showed yesterday(no way they would have been undefeated had they remained in the LL). I felt RPI would be well prepared and play with discipline as they did for almost 3 quarters, but those 2 interceptions thrown my Marinopoulos were killers (pretty much right to the Wesley DBs at the Wesley 1 and the last into the Endzone) ....  I am not saying RPI may have won except for those Int's because the Wesley offense is impossible to contain for an entire game, at least for a LL defense..... I do think an issue for Wesley seems to be waiting until the second half to get all cylinders firing, which I think  is a bad sign for them in the next round (take it from a Hobart fan whose team lived last year on this formula and died this year on it). Wesley cannot wait until the second half against Brockport. As far as Delaware Valley, I am not sure (other than the early season Wesley game) they have been tested so, Husson is capable of an underdog "RPI " performance and scaring DelVal, but  I am thinking a Delaware Valley-Brockport match-up in 2 weeks .

Following up -- Round of 8 in bold
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on December 08, 2017, 10:48:40 AM
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2017/12/08/the-quick-hits-takes-on-the-semifinals/

We look at BP vs Cru in detail, recap All-Region and other awards
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Teamski on December 08, 2017, 12:07:29 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on December 08, 2017, 10:48:40 AM
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2017/12/08/the-quick-hits-takes-on-the-semifinals/

We look at BP vs Cru in detail, recap All-Region and other awards

It's gonna be a tough game for BP to win, Germinerio is good, but against that defense.....mmmmmm...

-Ski
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 08, 2017, 12:24:42 PM
18-minute tour of the CRUthedral

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mnlec3ouOA
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D3MAFAN on December 08, 2017, 12:28:26 PM
Hoping to see a good game tomorrow from Brockport.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bengalsrule on December 08, 2017, 03:07:18 PM
Good luck to the   BROCKPORT GOLDEN EAGLES
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on December 08, 2017, 05:06:19 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 08, 2017, 03:07:18 PM
Good luck to the   BROCKPORT GOLDEN EAGLES
Turn up the ROCKY theme music .....BELIEVE IT, TASTE IT......overcoming a 14-21 point spread is possible.....the Golden Eagles will fly to Salem after tomorrow for the Stagg Bowl
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 07, 2018, 06:41:45 AM
Frank's 2nd ERR predictions:

East Regional Rankings (Week 2 Projection)

1) Brockport, 9-0, 9-0, 0.523, W vs. #5, #9
2) Frostburg State, 8-0, 8-0, 0.502, W vs. #6
3) RPI, 8-0, 8-0, 0.509, W vs. #9
4) Delaware Valley, 8-1, 8-1, 0.475, None
5) Ithaca, 7-2, 7-2, 0.541, L vs. #1, #3
6) Cortland, 7-2, 7-2, 0.514, L vs. #1
7) Merchant Marine, 7-1, 7-1, 0.540, None
8) Framingham State, 7-2, 7-2, 0.572, W vs. #7
9) Montclair State, 7-2, 7-2, 0.572, L vs. #2, #6
10) Endicott, 7-2, 7-2, 0.545, W vs. #10

Others Considered:
X Wesley, 6-3, 6-3, 0.535, W vs. #4, #6, L vs. #2
X MIT, 8-1, 8-1, 0.466, W vs. #8
X Salisbury, 8-1, 8-1, 0.454, None
X Misericordia, 8-1, 8-1, 0.432, L vs. #8
X Stevenson, 7-2, 7-2, 0.512, L vs. #4
X Western Connecticut, 7-1, 8-1, 0.515, None

Note - RRO = Wins and Losses vs Week 1 ranked teams.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 07, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 05, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
Early RR predications:

East Region   
1 Brockport 9-0 - .523
2 Frostburg State 8-0 - .502
3 RPI 8-0 - 509
4 Delaware Valley 8-1 - .475
5 Merchant Marine 7-1 - .540
6 Ithaca 6-2 - .541
7 Cortland 7-2 - .514
8 Salisbury 8-1 - .454
9  MIT 8-1 - .466
10 Montclair State 7-2 -.572

Although the committed favors conference leaders typically, I don't think that 2-loss conference champs (leaders) are going to make it into 2nd week, maybe final rankings.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: UfanBill on November 08, 2018, 02:02:21 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 07, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 05, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
Early RR predications:

East Region   
1 Brockport 9-0 - .523
2 Frostburg State 8-0 - .502
3 RPI 8-0 - 509
4 Delaware Valley 8-1 - .475
5 Merchant Marine 7-1 - .540
6 Ithaca 6-2 - .541
7 Cortland 7-2 - .514
8 Salisbury 8-1 - .454
9  MIT 8-1 - .466
10 Montclair State 7-2 -.572

Although the committed favors conference leaders typically, I don't think that 2-loss conference champs (leaders) are going to make it into 2nd week, maybe final rankings.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I know someone will...It's my understanding that the NCAA regional rankings are not a ranking of who are the best teams it's designed to "seed"(a term they resist using) specifically for the tourney. They're looking to identify their 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 games within the limits of geography. Teams that have already clinched a bid are going to show up at some point in the rankings. For example in the West rankings Claremont-Mudd-Scribbs is in the rankings despite their 2 losses. Other 2 loss teams are ranked with anticipation of them clinching bids.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 16, 2018, 10:53:03 AM
Here's are break down of the 2018 east 1st rd playoff games and some talk about the ECACs and other bowls:

https://www.facebook.com/D3Huddle/videos/493791937807853/
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Saxon73 on November 17, 2018, 11:39:08 AM
 A score has been posted for the Brockport game   ??? ???
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Hawks88 on November 17, 2018, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: Saxon73 on November 17, 2018, 11:39:08 AM
A score has been posted for the Brockport game   ??? ???
Scoreboard page hacked?
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 17, 2018, 01:19:41 PM
By Framingham State!


Just kidding. It was an errant box score posting
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 18, 2018, 12:18:10 PM
A few reactions to Saturday's games.

- The MAC's struggles in the postseason continue over from 2017 to 2018 (0-5 yesterday). They are now the 4th strongest ER conf IMO.
- Tough day for the CCC (0-3), but WNE did acquit themselves well yesterday
- Nice wins by Utica, Alfred, GCC and Wesley in very competitive and entertaining ECAC bowls
- Congrats to SC, overcoming tons of injuries this season to end up with 8 wins and a NE Bowl win
- Credit to BSU also on a quiet, but still solid 8-3 season, including yesterday's NE Bowl win
- BP playing a lot of FY DBs Saturday, and gave up a lot of passing yards
- FSU still with the slow starts and the defense giving up almost 500 yards has to have Coach Fitz a bit steamed
- Can't wait until this Saturday's "state championship bowl" games btw FSU & JHU / BP & RPI
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 18, 2018, 03:06:01 PM
Definitely a down year for the MAC overall. Stevenson lost its starting quarterback against Del Val and Widener never found its way after an 0-3 start. The bottom half of the conference is getting better with Miseri, FDU and Wilkes all taking steps forward.

The MAC is also definitely no better than the third best conference, and probably the fourth. Unquestionably weaker than the NJAC and Empire 8. A little hard to say with the Liberty League which only has six teams compared to 11 now for the MAC, but I'd take RPI/Ithaca/Hobart/Union over Del Val/Stevenson/Miseri/Lycoming. So fourth is probably right.

As JMCozen noted, Del Val graduated nine All-Conference players from the best defense in school history and still ended up having a really good defense at the end of the year. This year Del Val was a good team, but not a great one and probably not even one of the top three or four teams in the region. They were also a much better team at the end of the year than the one that lost to Wesley on opening night, as you'd expect when you completely remake your defense.

Del Val should be good again next year. They'll have to replace a +3.5 starter at quarterback, but their best players on defense are all returning and a couple of them will be sophomores. I don't know if that'll translate to any kind of national profile, but they'll be in the mix for another NCAA playoff appearance.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
3 teams left. Brockport gets RPI and Frostburg gets Hopkins.  I will be interested to see how RPI does against Brockport.  Can they make it a game or do they play like they did against Union and get trounced.  I think Frostburg is in trouble.  They are giving up too many points to keep winning. This will be a high scoring game.  In the end next week looks like a good game.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 09:07:36 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
3 teams left. Brockport gets RPI and Frostburg gets Hopkins.  I will be interested to see how RPI does against Brockport.  Can they make it a game or do they play like they did against Union and get trounced.  I think Frostburg is in trouble.  They are giving up too many points to keep winning. This will be a high scoring game.  In the end next week looks like a good game.
Agree with Wesleydad comments.......RPI will have to play their hearts and heads out and get something like +3-4 in turnovers to win against Brockport , but Brockport has not been as invincible lately... if Brockport wins by 4 or more TDs, watch out next round, RPI's only chance of winning is on a late FG after a BPort turnover....or can Rueben Clarke put on the emergency brake and stop the BPort train?  I think Hopkins has the edge over Frosty, but this one could go either way. Congrats to all the teams for their progress to date. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 12:30:48 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 09:07:36 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
3 teams left. Brockport gets RPI and Frostburg gets Hopkins.  I will be interested to see how RPI does against Brockport.  Can they make it a game or do they play like they did against Union and get trounced.  I think Frostburg is in trouble.  They are giving up too many points to keep winning. This will be a high scoring game.  In the end next week looks like a good game.
Agree with Wesleydad comments.......RPI will have to play their hearts and heads out and get something like +3-4 in turnovers to win against Brockport , but Brockport has not been as invincible lately... if Brockport wins by 4 or more TDs, watch out next round, RPI's only chance of winning is on a late FG after a BPort turnover....or can Rueben Clarke put on the emergency brake and stop the BPort train?  I think Hopkins has the edge over Frosty, but this one could go either way. Congrats to all the teams for their progress to date.
Whoa, three TO's by BPort and Engineers up 7-0 on a wet sloppy day. BPort using Brown as RB and he looks good but cannot sustain a drive. Still very early, but RPI looks like they are extremely well prepared.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 12:30:48 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 09:07:36 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
3 teams left. Brockport gets RPI and Frostburg gets Hopkins.  I will be interested to see how RPI does against Brockport.  Can they make it a game or do they play like they did against Union and get trounced.  I think Frostburg is in trouble.  They are giving up too many points to keep winning. This will be a high scoring game.  In the end next week looks like a good game.
Agree with Wesleydad comments.......RPI will have to play their hearts and heads out and get something like +3-4 in turnovers to win against Brockport , but Brockport has not been as invincible lately... if Brockport wins by 4 or more TDs, watch out next round, RPI's only chance of winning is on a late FG after a BPort turnover....or can Rueben Clarke put on the emergency brake and stop the BPort train?  I think Hopkins has the edge over Frosty, but this one could go either way. Congrats to all the teams for their progress to date.
Whoa, three TO's by BPort and Engineers up 7-0 on a wet sloppy day. BPort using Brown as RB and he looks good but cannot sustain a drive. Still very early, but RPI looks like they are extremely well prepared.

Yes they do.  RPI needs to get up 2 scores.  The weather will play a part in this game for sure.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 24, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
13-7 Brockport at halftime, Hop was beating Frosty last I saw. Elsewhere all is chalk as UMU and UMHB are smashing their opponents like they always do.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
RPI takes the lead.  Brockport looks ordinary.  Frostburg getting beat, but hanging in.  Change that.  Int and Hopkins has the ball again.  Frostburg defense is getting run over by Hopkins.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 01:56:45 PM
Frostburg is just not that good on defense and getting trashed by a good offense in Hopkins.  You cant keep giving up that many points in games and keep winning.  Give RPI credit, they are playing a good game.  Defense is doing a good job keeping Brockport in front of them. 
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:12:19 PM
Well, the top of the east does not look good.  Brockport with another turnover and RPI has a chance to go up 8.  Frostburg just not good.  Hopkins looks much better and likely much better than Brock or RPI too.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 24, 2018, 02:30:35 PM
Looking like just about curtains for Frostburg. Get the ball back on the 1 with just about 7 minutes to play. Down 21.

RPI getting new life inside the 5 with a PI.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 02:31:27 PM
Hopkins looks great, Frosty kinda soft, frankly this is not good for the NJAC. Brockport and RPI in a defensive battle on a harsh weather rainy day. BPort has turned the ball over 5 times. RPI 14 BPort 13. RPI has not backed down since the opening kickoff. LL reps  looking good as they are 1st and goal from the one with 8 minutes left.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 02:36:03 PM
RPI scores 21-13 . Terrific determination by the Engineers. Who wants it more??
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 02:41:52 PM
BPort penalties could be the difference here...lack of discipline. Still 21-13 with 6:30 left.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: thewaterboy on November 24, 2018, 02:43:41 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 02:41:52 PM
BPort penalties could be the difference here...lack of discipline. Still 21-13 with 6:30 left.
A SIXTH turnover.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 02:31:27 PM
Hopkins looks great, Frosty kinda soft, frankly this is not good for the NJAC. Brockport and RPI in a defensive battle on a harsh weather rainy day. BPort has turned the ball over 5 times. RPI 14 BPort 13. RPI has not backed down since the opening kickoff. LL reps  looking good as they are 1st and goal from the one with 8 minutes left.

This looks bad for the East.  The NJAC had 4 or 5 good teams, but no real good one.  Wesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.  No one did anything great week to week.  Brockport has not looked that good the last few weeks.  RPI is a nice team, but no one will fear them if they play them.  The East again lacks that top national contender.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: HScoach on November 24, 2018, 03:15:20 PM
Yup, this isn't a good look for the East region.  You need your best teams to play like it when it matters most.  Parity amongst a bunch of good teams makes for exciting regular seasons, but it's a death sentence come playoff time.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 24, 2018, 03:23:10 PM
Even though this was a massive rebuilding year for DelVal after the losses on defense and offense from the national quarterfinal team, they have to be kicking themselves right about now for blowing that game last week to Muhlenberg. Up 13-0 and driving to make it 20-0, stupid ass penalties snuff that out. Then the fumble at the Muhlenberg 27. Then the blown play deep in Muhlenberg's territory to end the half. Then the drive to win the game turns into a pick six and a 20-13 loss. Given what Muhlenberg did to Randolph Macon today, I think it's probably safe to say that DelVal would have been in their second consecutive national quarterfinal (where they would have been led to slaughter against Mount Union). 9 defensive starters back next year, including three more years of the Nobile brothers/monsters. A returning defensive player, possibly two, from the 2017 team. 7 offensive starters back, a nice replacement for Darden at QB, two returnees from 2017, and a stud RB who sat out this year. If they have a solid recruiting/transfer (if two on the radar now occur......watch out) year this offseason, it could be a great year in Doylestown. I am picking Wesley though to win the 2019 opener as nobody other than Mount Union, UMHB, Whitewater and maybe another team or two takes three out of four (and the series ends after the 2019 game) from Wesley.

Frostburg was a monster disappointment today against a Hopkins team that struggled at home with Muhlenberg.

Brockport was even a bigger disappointment given how many starters they returned from the 2017 national semifinal team and having a Gagliardi finalist at QB.

Oh well, it's basketball and wrestling season. I'll tune in to watch the surprise championship between Mount Union and UMHB. Kind of like wondering if Alabama and the Golden State Warriors will win championships this year as well. Not a whole lot of drama ;)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Upstate on November 24, 2018, 03:24:22 PM
Great job by the RPI defense. They played 8 in coverage most of the game and Brockport had no idea where to go with the ball. Really bad showing by the Brockport offense though, even with three DL rushing they still allowed way more pressure than they should have.

Brockport defense played well considered they were put in horrible spots all game long with 6 turnovers by the offense.

Good luck against Hopkins RPI
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 24, 2018, 03:24:22 PM
Great job by the RPI defense. They played 8 in coverage most of the game and Brockport had no idea where to go with the ball. Really bad showing by the Brockport offense though, even with three DL rushing they still allowed way more pressure than they should have.

Brockport defense played well considered they were put in horrible spots all game long with 6 turnovers by the offense.

Good luck against Hopkins RPI
Brockport was outcoached by RPI today, especially in the second half. Germinerio did not make the kind of difference he can make as they put a spy on him at key points and put 8 in coverage , as you said, denying access to those great receivers. When the weather improved in the second half, BPort went to the pass, when it looked like they could have rushed Brown all day long... or at least made RPI put more in the box....outcoached, IMO.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: Bartman on November 24, 2018, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 24, 2018, 03:24:22 PM
Great job by the RPI defense. They played 8 in coverage most of the game and Brockport had no idea where to go with the ball. Really bad showing by the Brockport offense though, even with three DL rushing they still allowed way more pressure than they should have.

Brockport defense played well considered they were put in horrible spots all game long with 6 turnovers by the offense.

Good luck against Hopkins RPI
Brockport was outcoached by RPI today, especially in the second half. Germinerio did not make the kind of difference he can make as they put a spy on him at key points and put 8 in coverage , as you said, denying access to those great receivers. When the weather improved in the second half, BPort went to the pass, when it looked like they could have rushed Brown all day long... or at least made RPI put more in the box....outcoached, IMO.

11 for 33 is not going to beat anyone.  RPI did a great job of making someone other than Germanerio make a play and no one did.  Agree, no adjustments by Brockport makes it seem like they were outcoached.  Big question is, can RPI score enough, figure they need at least 30+ to win next week.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 24, 2018, 05:34:04 PM
It as a great game by two great teams. If you use transverse properties from how the season went, it would make since that this game was going to be close. RPI continue to defy odds. Good coaching by them. Games aren't always won on paper.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: D O.C. on November 25, 2018, 01:07:58 AM
Always next year East.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 25, 2018, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 25, 2018, 01:07:58 AM
Always next year East.

Not likely.  The east is far from ready to take the next step up the ladder to national prominence.  The top teams in the east are good, but most are second or third place good in the other top conferences.  I am not sure what the reason is, but if you follow the national scene you can easily see that the east's best would not compete with the top teams around the nation.  Brockport and Frostburg being ranked as high as they were should mean they run over the rest of the bracket to meet in the quarters, but instead Frostburg gets run over by Hopkins and Brockport gets shut down by an RPI team that gave up more than 13 points to 8 teams, including 14 to Husson.  Not taking anything away from RPI, but if you are the 4th ranked team in the country you don't lose that game.  As a region the east is probably the most competitive week in and week out, but once the season turns to a national scale the east is by far the weakest on a national level.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 02:15:04 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 25, 2018, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 25, 2018, 01:07:58 AM
Always next year East.

Not likely.  The east is far from ready to take the next step up the ladder to national prominence.  The top teams in the east are good, but most are second or third place good in the other top conferences.  I am not sure what the reason is, but if you follow the national scene you can easily see that the east's best would not compete with the top teams around the nation.  Brockport and Frostburg being ranked as high as they were should mean they run over the rest of the bracket to meet in the quarters, but instead Frostburg gets run over by Hopkins and Brockport gets shut down by an RPI team that gave up more than 13 points to 8 teams, including 14 to Husson.  Not taking anything away from RPI, but if you are the 4th ranked team in the country you don't lose that game.  As a region the east is probably the most competitive week in and week out, but once the season turns to a national scale the east is by far the weakest on a national level.

I really don't think of the competition problem as regional in nature at all.  Since 2005, only 5 programs have played in the Stagg Bowl.  21 of 26 appearances have been made by Mt Union or UWW.  The South has only made two trips.  So it's much more a story about the dominance of a tiny handful of programs that of one or more regions over another.  Of course, that just reflects the fact that, at a national levle, D3 is now almost entirely dysfunctional from a structural competition perspective.  But in the absence of the greater leveler - scholarships - there is nothing to be done on that front.  Frankly, I am just happy that, unlike the North or West, the East is a vibrant competitive region, with great diversity from year to year in terms of top teams in the region.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
...and the sad thing for the East is that Frostburg St is leaving...

It hurt the South Region when we lost the ACFC schools.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 03:49:19 PM
Frostburg was a good, but not dominant, program. As Wesley Dad mentions, the East has plenty of those. The NJAC takes a small hit in terms of depth but there were plenty of teams at Frostburg's level.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 02:15:04 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 25, 2018, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 25, 2018, 01:07:58 AM
Always next year East.

Not likely.  The east is far from ready to take the next step up the ladder to national prominence.  The top teams in the east are good, but most are second or third place good in the other top conferences.  I am not sure what the reason is, but if you follow the national scene you can easily see that the east's best would not compete with the top teams around the nation.  Brockport and Frostburg being ranked as high as they were should mean they run over the rest of the bracket to meet in the quarters, but instead Frostburg gets run over by Hopkins and Brockport gets shut down by an RPI team that gave up more than 13 points to 8 teams, including 14 to Husson.  Not taking anything away from RPI, but if you are the 4th ranked team in the country you don't lose that game.  As a region the east is probably the most competitive week in and week out, but once the season turns to a national scale the east is by far the weakest on a national level.

I really don't think of the competition problem as regional in nature at all. Since 2005, only 5 programs have played in the Stagg Bowl.  21 of 26 appearances have been made by Mt Union or UWW.  The South has only made two trips.  So it's much more a story about the dominance of a tiny handful of programs that of one or more regions over another.  Of course, that just reflects the fact that, at a national levle, D3 is now almost entirely dysfunctional from a structural competition perspective.  But in the absence of the greater leveler - scholarships - there is nothing to be done on that front.  Frankly, I am just happy that, unlike the North or West, the East is a vibrant competitive region, with great diversity from year to year in terms of top teams in the region.

That's one way of looking at it ... but also, since the last East Stagg champ, five different West programs have won the walnut and bronze.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 05:28:18 PM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 02:15:04 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 25, 2018, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 25, 2018, 01:07:58 AM
Always next year East.

Not likely.  The east is far from ready to take the next step up the ladder to national prominence.  The top teams in the east are good, but most are second or third place good in the other top conferences.  I am not sure what the reason is, but if you follow the national scene you can easily see that the east's best would not compete with the top teams around the nation.  Brockport and Frostburg being ranked as high as they were should mean they run over the rest of the bracket to meet in the quarters, but instead Frostburg gets run over by Hopkins and Brockport gets shut down by an RPI team that gave up more than 13 points to 8 teams, including 14 to Husson.  Not taking anything away from RPI, but if you are the 4th ranked team in the country you don't lose that game.  As a region the east is probably the most competitive week in and week out, but once the season turns to a national scale the east is by far the weakest on a national level.

I really don't think of the competition problem as regional in nature at all. Since 2005, only 5 programs have played in the Stagg Bowl.  21 of 26 appearances have been made by Mt Union or UWW.  The South has only made two trips.  So it's much more a story about the dominance of a tiny handful of programs that of one or more regions over another.  Of course, that just reflects the fact that, at a national levle, D3 is now almost entirely dysfunctional from a structural competition perspective.  But in the absence of the greater leveler - scholarships - there is nothing to be done on that front.  Frankly, I am just happy that, unlike the North or West, the East is a vibrant competitive region, with great diversity from year to year in terms of top teams in the region.

That's one way of looking at it ... but also, since the last East Stagg champ, five different West programs have won the walnut and bronze.

That is true.  But Rowan was on the other side of nearly half of those games, so I don't really feel like the East was particularly inferior.

I feel like somewhere there should be a D3 student athlete who runs a deep statistical analysis of what's associated with high level success in D3 football and turns it in as his thesis.  For example, for fun, I decided to check and see what was the last program with a sub-65% acceptance rate to win a Stagg Bowl.  (Thanks to MUC and UWW, that's not much work.)  Turns out to be Augustana in the 80s, clocking in at a stingy 51.6%.  70-80% is definitely the sweet spot.  (Also, I had always thought St. John's was some august academic Midwest institution, but turns out they had the highest acceptance rate of any champ since the 80s (when I stopped checking).  Who knew.)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
St. John's was my safety school.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
St. John's was my safety school.

It does seem like a really lovely place...

And I should add, of course, that accceptance rates only tell part of the story.  For example, St. John's clocks in 85%, but shows an average SAT in the 1000s.  Wesley clocks in at 60%, but the average SAT is in the 800s.  (Which makes you wonder:  who are all those people NOT getting in there?)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 05:50:52 PM
Indeed, a quick look at USN&WR comparison finds UMU at 81 percent, SJU at 80  . . . . and Catholic at 83.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2018, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 05:50:52 PM
Indeed, a quick look at USN&WR comparison finds UMU at 81 percent, SJU at 80  . . . . and Catholic at 83.

No idea what those numbers were 25-plus years ago, but yep. Catholic gave me a full ride and John shook his head and said something about monks when I told him what kind of offer SJU made me. :)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
St. John's was my safety school.

It does seem like a really lovely place...

And I should add, of course, that accceptance rates only tell part of the story.  For example, St. John's clocks in 85%, but shows an average SAT in the 1000s.  Wesley clocks in at 60%, but the average SAT is in the 800s.  (Which makes you wonder:  who are all those people NOT getting in there?)

Which, as you noted, is why acceptance rates are only part of the the formula in what makes a good school. And from a perspective of decades out of school, it's easy to see that a good school for one guy might not be the best for another.

For SJU, I'd say that getting students to a rural, all-male campus is much tougher these days than when I was looking at colleges in the '70s. I chose between SJU and Mac and was glad I did. (And, over the years, I've had to help out a family member, who was a Carleton guy ....). 

When I was doing grad work, I found myself between two feuding groups from two strong West Coast universities. The fight: the private school, at least at that time, was more selective, but had a reputation that once accepted, you'd make it through, while the public university was easier to get into, but harder to survive.

Bottom line, though, academic arguments on these boards get a bit tiresome.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2018, 06:27:35 PM
What the "study" above didn't say was where the 65% acceptance rate falls among D-III schools.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 06:40:36 PM
Indeed, Pat. Also, the metric is just a bad one in general. SJU had fewer than 1,500 guys apply last season, but the quality of those applicants was academically solid. Data without context is dangerous.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 06:57:13 PM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 06:40:36 PM
Indeed, Pat. Also, the metric is just a bad one in general. SJU had fewer than 1,500 guys apply last season, but the quality of those applicants was academically solid. Data without context is dangerous.

The metric is not a bad one, it's just a single one. No single data point will explain all things.  (And as a data point for "how hard is it to get in football players," it's actually a pretty good one.). A good study (which I expressed hope someone would do, didn't claim to do myself) would look at that and tons of others and try to answer the question: what factors matter?  Academic arguments may be tedious, but the simple fact is (relatively) low admission standards are an important  advantage in any D3 sport.  Of course, there are many others (e.g., like a massive institutional commitment to a program and phenomenal coaching, like Mt Union).  And more difficult admissions standards are no bar to success.  (Heck, Union won a D1(!) hockey title with no scholarship athletes.). But again, if the subject is why do a few programs keep dominating (as mine was), you're kidding yourself if you don't think ease of getting players in isn't part of the recipe for success.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: unionpalooza on November 25, 2018, 05:43:00 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
St. John's was my safety school.

It does seem like a really lovely place...

And I should add, of course, that accceptance rates only tell part of the story.  For example, St. John's clocks in 85%, but shows an average SAT in the 1000s.  Wesley clocks in at 60%, but the average SAT is in the 800s.  (Which makes you wonder:  who are all those people NOT getting in there?)

Which, as you noted, is why acceptance rates are only part of the the formula in what makes a good school. And from a perspective of decades out of school, it's easy to see that a good school for one guy might not be the best for another.

For SJU, I'd say that getting students to a rural, all-male campus is much tougher these days than when I was looking at colleges in the '70s. I chose between SJU and Mac and was glad I did. (And, over the years, I've had to help out a family member, who was a Carleton guy ....). 

When I was doing grad work, I found myself between two feuding groups from two strong West Coast universities. The fight: the private school, at least at that time, was more selective, but had a reputation that once accepted, you'd make it through, while the public university was easier to get into, but harder to survive.

Bottom line, though, academic arguments on these boards get a bit tiresome.

(First bold)  True dat.  When I first got to Michigan for grad school, and discovered most of my classmates were undergrads at Ivies, NESCACs, Berkely, etc., my reaction was "Oops, what have you gotten yourself into?!"  Within about three weeks, I realized that I (a guy from a small Illinois school most of my classmates had probably never heard of [IWU, for any newcomers]) was BETTER prepared than the vast majority of them!  Whether or not IWU was the BEST school for me, who the hell knows - it's the only one I attended!  But it worked out just fine. ;)

(Second bold)  Yeah, there is NO one right model.  There is very much a role for those who will take only the "best" as far as that can be determined, and try to make them even better (though I have frequently heard it is virtually impossible to flunk out of Harvard - you might get kicked out for flagrant misconduct, but if you get in, no one flunks out).  There is also very much an important role for those who will take almost anyone willing to try to do the work and try to bring them to the highest level their innate capacity allows (which is often MUCH higher than standardized tests would project).

I taught my whole career at a non-selective regional university (Eastern Michigan U).  My students ranged from those who probably could have succeeded at MIT if only they had the contacts and confidence, to those whose reasons for being in college were probably a mystery even to themselves.  Quite a challenge when both extremes are in the same class!  I hope I was able to improve the education of both extremes, though I'm dubious.  My own older son (whom I never had in a class, of course) felt totally unchallenged at EMU and transferred to U of M - for him that was clearly the better choice.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 25, 2018, 07:17:48 PM
I can only speak to Wesley and my son.  He scored horribly on standardized tests and was recruited by Temple and Kutztown, but they both said his scores had to be higher, which was not going to happen.  Coach Drass said he wanted him to come to Wesley and got him in.  He graduated and had a great experience.  Sometimes kids need to be given a chance and I am glad that Coach Drass and Wesley gave my son one.  That and the experience of playing at the top of D3 from 2005 to 2008 made it even better.  Not everyone is an academic star, but given a chance they will get it done.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 08:11:42 PM
Yep, Wesley dad. I have a very similar story about one of my son's best buddies and a kid I coached in a couple of sports, but will spare you the details because it's that school down Hwy. 13. (In fairness, I did try to get him to Dover.) For him it started at Utica and ended there. He's grown into a fine young man with a great career ahead of him.

And, no, Palooza, acceptance rate alone is not a good measure of  "how hard is it to get in football players." It means very little little without further data, such as admissions standards. Most admissions officers will tell you that the pools that schools draw their applicants from very greatly for a great number of reasons . . .  and admission standards are only the start. It runs much deeper than that.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I don't know if academic standards are the reason that the East can't produce an elite Division III football team. But considering that Johns Hopkins is one win away from winning the "East" bracket, this is not a good time to raise that question.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Machiavelli on November 25, 2018, 09:15:10 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I don't know if academic standards are the reason that the East can't produce an elite Division III football team. But considering that Johns Hopkins is one win away from winning the "East" bracket, this is not a good time to raise that question.

What about if RPI wins????
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 09:48:27 PM
Quote from: Machiavelli on November 25, 2018, 09:15:10 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I don't know if academic standards are the reason that the East can't produce an elite Division III football team. But considering that Johns Hopkins is one win away from winning the "East" bracket, this is not a good time to raise that question.

What about if RPI wins????

Not interested enough to research it, but I would assume that RPI also has high academic standards (probably much higher admissions standards than Brockport), so the whole East region whine (by some posters) that they can't compete because they can't get the 'dumb' jocks in is bogus.

That whine offends me on two different grounds (as a career-long educator before retiring c. 10 years ago):

1.  A GOOD school is one which can help lift students as high as they are capable of going, whether it is MIT or a community college.  They are BOTH vital parts of our educational system.  (Which is why I vociferously object to using admissions standards as a criterion of quality.)

2.  A 'dumb' jock, however athletic, is gonna be a failure.  If you can learn the playbook, you can learn the textbook.  If you're not interested in the latter, please go away, before you embarrass the school - and one way or another, you will.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:12:21 PM
Mr. Ypsi:  I was going to razz you about the Ohio State/Michigan game but your recent posts on this string have been so stellar I will refrain.









(62-39)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 10:21:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 09:48:27 PM
Quote from: Machiavelli on November 25, 2018, 09:15:10 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I don't know if academic standards are the reason that the East can't produce an elite Division III football team. But considering that Johns Hopkins is one win away from winning the "East" bracket, this is not a good time to raise that question.

What about if RPI wins????

Not interested enough to research it, but I would assume that RPI also has high academic standards (probably much higher admissions standards than Brockport), so the whole East region whine (by some posters) that they can't compete because they can't get the 'dumb' jocks in is bogus.

That whine offends me on two different grounds (as a career-long educator before retiring c. 10 years ago):

1.  A GOOD school is one which can help lift students as high as they are capable of going, whether it is MIT or a community college.  They are BOTH vital parts of our educational system.  (Which is why I vociferously object to using admissions standards as a criterion of quality.)

2.  A 'dumb' jock, however athletic, is gonna be a failure.  If you can learn the playbook, you can learn the textbook.  If you're not interested in the latter, please go away, before you embarrass the school - and one way or another, you will.

+1!

Dumb jock... I remember the College World Series final a few years ago between Stanford and Rice...

I also believe there is a significant amount of hubris and arrogance when one does not acknowledge the multiple types of intelligences, e.g., as described by Howard Gardner.

https://www.tecweb.org/styles/gardner.html

I once encountered a college freshman whose reading level as assessed on the Stanford was 9th grade level, but they graded out as 3 standard deviations above the mean (99.7%, higher than all but 3 per thousand) in visual/spatial intelligence. They had a language processing issue for which they could compensate thruout high school. It was the liberal arts reading requirements that they could not handle.

Would Michael Jordan have been able to matriculate at your alma mater?  He clearly had bodily-kinesthetic intelligence.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 10:25:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 09:48:27 PM
Quote from: Machiavelli on November 25, 2018, 09:15:10 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I don't know if academic standards are the reason that the East can't produce an elite Division III football team. But considering that Johns Hopkins is one win away from winning the "East" bracket, this is not a good time to raise that question.

What about if RPI wins????

Not interested enough to research it, but I would assume that RPI also has high academic standards (probably much higher admissions standards than Brockport), so the whole East region whine (by some posters) that they can't compete because they can't get the 'dumb' jocks in is bogus.

That whine offends me on two different grounds (as a career-long educator before retiring c. 10 years ago):

1.  A GOOD school is one which can help lift students as high as they are capable of going, whether it is MIT or a community college.  They are BOTH vital parts of our educational system.  (Which is why I vociferously object to using admissions standards as a criterion of quality.)

2.  A 'dumb' jock, however athletic, is gonna be a failure.  If you can learn the playbook, you can learn the textbook.  If you're not interested in the latter, please go away, before you embarrass the school - and one way or another, you will.

This. Thanks, Ypsi.

To be clear, and looking back, I wasn't .... My point wasn't backing palooza's academic argument ...only saying that if you're going to make it, then acceptance rate is a terrible way to start. I have no clue as to the East drought.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:12:21 PM
Mr. Ypsi:  I was going to razz you about the Ohio State/Michigan game but your recent posts on this string have been so stellar I will refrain.









(62-39)

edv, I was gonna thank you for your mercy - then you had to post that score! ::)

That was truly painful - OSU's best game of the year opposite UM's worst game of the year.  OUCH!!  Statistically the best defense in the country, then yield the most points OSU has EVER scored against UM, and the second most points ANYONE has ever scored against us.  I blame it on my grandkids:  almost 2-year-old Maisie was wearing a UM cheerleader outfit, but napped thru most of the game; we gave 1-month old Ollie UM shoes but no one remembered to put them on him!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: RtSLl3100 on November 25, 2018, 10:42:57 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 25, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I don't know if academic standards are the reason that the East can't produce an elite Division III football team. But considering that Johns Hopkins is one win away from winning the "East" bracket, this is not a good time to raise that question.
Considering JHU is a South region team only helps that the East does not have a "powerhouse" but the committee is tasked to create the best bracket that doesn't break the NCAA budget. But what's the point of playing on Saturday if upsets aren't possible; if that was the fact then UMU should just be crowned the National Champ since they have been #1 all year. Give credit when it's due; JHU, RPI, Muhlenburg all played and won to be in the QF
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 10:39:22 PMwe gave 1-month old Ollie UM shoes but no one remembered to put them on him!

Ollie's a month old and can't put his own damn shoes on?  Kids today. 

(Sigh)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 25, 2018, 10:51:14 PM
That's ok. Maybe he can play college ball in the North, South or West.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 10:53:49 PM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 10:39:22 PMwe gave 1-month old Ollie UM shoes but no one remembered to put them on him!

Ollie's a month old and can't put his own damn shoes on?  Kids today. 

(Sigh)

Yeah, I know! ;D

But I'm not sure anyone let him know the shoes existed, and he doesn't get around very well yet.  In a couple of years you'd better watch out - though I think we'll need bigger shoes by then. :D

And if Maisie can stay awake, you guys are in trouble! :o 8-)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: jamtod on November 25, 2018, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2018, 10:39:22 PMwe gave 1-month old Ollie UM shoes but no one remembered to put them on him!

Ollie's a month old and can't put his own damn shoes on?  Kids today. 

(Sigh)

Somebody give Coach Kehres a heads up. He can still probably get in to Mount Union.

;) :P
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: OzJohnnie on November 26, 2018, 01:23:07 AM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
Bottom line, though, academic arguments on these boards get a bit tiresome.

That's because you're not too smart.  ::)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: OzJohnnie on November 26, 2018, 01:48:41 AM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
For SJU, I'd say that getting students to a rural, all-male campus is much tougher these days than when I was looking at colleges in the '70s. I chose between SJU and Mac and was glad I did. (And, over the years, I've had to help out a family member, who was a Carleton guy ....). 

I went to Macalester out of high school.  I fit in like Michael Moore squeezed into a mankini (beware the Google search.  That which has been seen can never be unseen).  It was ugly.  After two years of struggling to be a square peg in a round hole I said, "That's it.  I can' stand this ****" and I joined the navy.  After my service term of chipping paint and cleaning heads I said, "**** this.  I'm going back to school."  I set my criteria as two things: 1) go to a school where people go to school primarily to learn and leave, and 2) go somewhere that loves football because I can't deal with any more sour-pusses who hate being alive.

And I picked St John's, did extremely well and I never looked back.

The moral of the story is not that SJU is a great place for men to learn and live (although it is that mos' def'n'ly) but that to do anything in life you must know just one thing.  Yourself.  You could go to Harvard, Oxford or the local Vo-Tech, it matters not.  Know yourself.  And that, there, is the one lesson I've tried to teach my own kids.  It would be nice if they could have a whole set of different struggles in their lives, rather than trying to learn the lessons which I have already uncovered.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ice Bear on November 26, 2018, 06:15:16 AM
Quote from: repete on November 25, 2018, 10:51:14 PM
That's ok. Maybe he can play college ball in the North, South or West.

Well played, dlip enjoyed this.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ice Bear on November 26, 2018, 06:27:08 AM
We've had this conversation many times before. Dlip used to buy into it a tad but that was based upon his own east region insecurities (he spent many years in counseling because of this). This season is just another example of the east region not having anyone that has even a remote chance to challenge for The Stagg. He'll go as far as to say the B-Port was quite overrated throughout the year (belonging maybe between 7-12) as was Frosty the (D2) Snowman. Yes we have "good" football in the east, even a plethora of "good" football teams but IDLHO when compared to the other regions we sit well below the North and West (we're closer to the south) when it comes to tier one and two teams.

Dlip has only heard one reason as to why that he feels may explain why, that reason is the density of schools in the east that may have an impact on recruiting. Aside from that...we just haven't honestly been a threat, even in the semi's since the ****ing wheel was invented. *See our regions orgasm last season over a 24-0 loss where we threw a pick 6 on the first offensive series looking like a youth football team playing against Jesus Christ...we felt like we belonged.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 26, 2018, 06:43:21 AM
See, Oz, that's why I'm so much smarter than you ... I never signed on the dotted line at Mac out of  HS. :P

Hate getting caught up in  posts like these, it's a character flaw methinks. While I've absolutely no interest in deciding what Midwestern school is the Harvard o' the Prairies (I'll leave that to Carleton, Grinnell and Wash U. grads), I did take exception to the post that implied that based on acceptance rate alone, SJU was some academic weakling that only cares about getting football players in the door. I've been watching d3 since the early '70s and have seen all kinds of programs do well -- including a Carleton MIAC title.

Your point about finding the school that works for you is spot on. On the MIAC board, it's common for some folks to kid about Augie Tech. All good fun, but while I know folks who got in there because Augie would take a chance on kids who might not get in elsewhere, I  have three friends among the grads: 1) a professor with a law degree who teaches at a Wis. d3 school, 2) a director of admissions at a Big Ten school, 3) a nationally regarded transplant specialist at Michigan. No school-choice regrets in that bunch.

Like you, SJU worked for me and helped me get to a great place. I just have to remember not to  post during Packer-Vikings games.

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Jonny Utah on November 26, 2018, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

There are several posters in the east region who don't know the proper usage of the words should or could.  (Wesleydad knows his football though)
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 26, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

edward, dont just pick one sentence out of the entire post in the discussion.  they easily could have been 10-0.  It is hard to lose 4 games by a total of 5 points, with all loses having a missed kick in them.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 26, 2018, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

edward, dont just pick one sentence out of the entire post in the discussion.  they easily could have been 10-0.  It is hard to lose 4 games by a total of 5 points, with all loses having a missed kick in them.

Regardless, it was a fun season and some interesting competitive games, with each quality team having a chance to beat the other. Regardless of rankings in the East (from a East perspective), games were interesting and at this point, could not care less what everyone else thinks. Just want to watch good D3 Football and see some new teams against the familiar top dogs and the interesting storylines that the front page offers.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ice Bear on November 26, 2018, 11:51:59 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 26, 2018, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

edward, dont just pick one sentence out of the entire post in the discussion.  they easily could have been 10-0.  It is hard to lose 4 games by a total of 5 points, with all loses having a missed kick in them.

Regardless, it was a fun season and some interesting competitive games, with each quality team having a chance to beat the other. Regardless of rankings in the East (from a East perspective), games were interesting and at this point, could not care less what everyone else thinks. Just want to watch good D3 Football and see some new teams against the familiar top dogs and the interesting storylines that the front page offers.

Well said.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: repete on November 26, 2018, 01:09:09 PM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 26, 2018, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

edward, dont just pick one sentence out of the entire post in the discussion.  they easily could have been 10-0.  It is hard to lose 4 games by a total of 5 points, with all loses having a missed kick in them.

Regardless, it was a fun season and some interesting competitive games, with each quality team having a chance to beat the other. Regardless of rankings in the East (from a East perspective), games were interesting and at this point, could not care less what everyone else thinks. Just want to watch good D3 Football and see some new teams against the familiar top dogs and the interesting storylines that the front page offers.

Vivid memories of a wild game in Dover against Linfield a few years back. As much as I like the West and the purple guys from Oregon, that was a super game to see.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: edward de vere on November 26, 2018, 10:48:46 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

edward, dont just pick one sentence out of the entire post in the discussion.  they easily could have been 10-0.  It is hard to lose 4 games by a total of 5 points, with all loses having a missed kick in them.

Well, let's say Wesley WON those four games by a total of 5 points.  Each of the four losers could come back and say:

1)  We should have won but we missed a kick.

2)  We should have won but our QB overthrew a wide receiver wide open for a touchdown on third down.

3)  We should have won but the refs missed a blatant holding call.

4)  We should have won but our QB didn't hold the ball and bounce to the outside on 4th-&-goal instead of handing off to the fullback.  EVERY single defender had sold out to the inside.

And then Wesley reverts to . . . 6-4.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on November 27, 2018, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: Dutch Boy on November 26, 2018, 11:51:59 AM
Quote from: MANDGSU on November 26, 2018, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 26, 2018, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: edward de vere on November 25, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 24, 2018, 02:45:59 PMWesley went 6 - 4 and probably should have been 10 - 0.

WesleyDad, I generally have a very high regard for your posts but:

"Come on, man!"

edward, dont just pick one sentence out of the entire post in the discussion.  they easily could have been 10-0.  It is hard to lose 4 games by a total of 5 points, with all loses having a missed kick in them.

Regardless, it was a fun season and some interesting competitive games, with each quality team having a chance to beat the other. Regardless of rankings in the East (from a East perspective), games were interesting and at this point, could not care less what everyone else thinks. Just want to watch good D3 Football and see some new teams against the familiar top dogs and the interesting storylines that the front page offers.

Well said.
Totally agree... over analyzing the East versus the top 8 teams in the country.......hey BPort had their worst game of the season at the wrong time against a good team that took advantage.....in Football you have one shot...basketball and baseball you can play a series and have a bad game and still win....BPort was no UMU or UMHB, but I still think they were a special team "in the East" the last 2 years
....the East has many more solid second tier teams IMO and I love the competition
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on November 30, 2018, 11:46:45 AM
Good game tomorrow, who you got?  RPI or Hopkins?  I have Hopkins winning 35 - 14.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 30, 2018, 12:17:19 PM
I going with Hopkins, 24 - 20. However, I wouldn't be surprise if RPI actually won the game. I think we are miscalculating how good RPI might be because of the late season loss. I think RPI defense is better than what the pundits think, they have not really blown teams out, but with the exception of the game against Union, have played really good football. This RPI team may be better than the team that played Wesley last year. Hopkins surprised me with their running last week, but that is out the window and with with RPI having played a good Brockport team, they are well tested and will be still hungry to prove doubters wrong.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: ITH radio on November 30, 2018, 01:10:37 PM
Our preview is up. What do you think?

https://www.facebook.com/126112447487909/posts/1951945514904584

Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Ice Bear on November 30, 2018, 03:34:56 PM
dlip has no ****ing idea what to expect. He wouldn't be surprised either way if that makes sense...he would love to see RPI win though, love to!
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: UfanBill on December 01, 2018, 05:18:24 AM
I'm going with Hopkins 41-14. The mistakes Brockport made that allowed RPI to get ahead last week will not come the Engineers way this time. The Blue Jays will score and RPI won't be able to keep up.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: rams1102 on December 01, 2018, 10:47:56 AM
RPI pulls off a squeaker 24-21.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on December 01, 2018, 11:34:13 AM
RPI will have its hands full today....if they can withstand the early JH attack, I think the 24-21 score is good, but they need 3 turnovers or more. If JH protects the ball they will move on and win 35-17.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: wesleydad on December 01, 2018, 02:23:20 PM
Game playing out as I thought it would.  Hopkins is good and RPI did not have enough offense to keep with them.  Watching the Mount/Mules game, I dont see why Hopkins cant compete with Mount.  Their game is virtually even, 2 mules turnovers leading to the 14 point difference.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: Bartman on December 01, 2018, 02:37:10 PM
I don't think the Hopkins defense is as good as the Mules, as I think Mount Union will run over the Hopkins Dline. Although the Hopkins offensive certainly may fair better than the Mules offense , I don't think it will be enough to keep it close. At the end of the day, it will depend on the weather slowing up Mount Union which was a factor in Alliance. I hope the JayHawks can make a game of it , but I would not be optimistic that they will do any better than Muhlenberg today.
Title: Re: East Region Playoff Discussion
Post by: UfanBill on December 01, 2018, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on December 01, 2018, 05:18:24 AM
I'm going with Hopkins 41-14. The mistakes Brockport made that allowed RPI to get ahead last week will not come the Engineers way this time. The Blue Jays will score and RPI won't be able to keep up.

Impressive win by Hopkins. That's a nice, well balance , well coached football team. The only mistakes they made today were missing a couple of kicks that cost me nailing the final on the head.  ::)