Most hated schools

Started by 02 Warhawk, August 07, 2014, 03:22:23 PM

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02 Warhawk

Came across something that was pretty cool (click on it to enlarge)



This got me thinking of what a DIII football "most hated" map would look like. I'm guessing the map would have a lot of purple in it. The only states not in purple might be the Northeast and Southeast parts of the country. However, since Mount always ends up in the East playoff region....the NE might be purple as well.

I wouldn't mind getting other people's thoughts from around the D3 world, especially those from the Southeast and Northeast.

I think it'll be cool to get a collective list going, from state to state.

For example:

Wisconsin: UW-Whitewater
Ohio: Mount Union
Minnesota: UST (barely edging out SJU and UWW)
Oregon: Linfield
Texas: MHB

jknezek

Considering UWW, UMU, Wesley, Linfield and UMHB all wear purple I'm guessing you'd have a whole lot of purple across the map. However, the map might not be so readable. There are twice as many D3 teams as D1 (counting the new autonomous teams there are 4 times as many D3 teams as those with full advantage to compete in D1), so you'd end up with a lot of little rivalries. For example, UMU might be hated in a lot of areas but if you asked Wabash fans who they hate most it would have to be Depauw. I can't imagine anyone in the HCAC dislikes UMU more than Franklin. Wesley might be toughest to beat in the mid-Atlantic but they aren't really a "hated" rivalry for anyone, since they've been independent and forced to play such an odd group of teams every year. Either way, I don't think you'd end up with a UT-Austin sized area across D3 like you do in the D1 map. Too many conferences each with a couple of true rivalries...

02 Warhawk

#2
Very true. Like in D1, many conferences spread throughout many states...hence Texas being hated by everyone in Big12 states. So we may only see one school per state if a DIII one was made.

There still would be a lot of purple though:
Texas
Ohio
Wisconsin
Oregon
Minnesota (maybe)
parts of the east coast (Wesley)?

However, I wonder if people's hatred for schools extend outside their conference in DIII? Just the way Nevada, Mass and Maine (apparently) hating Michigan the worst.  ???

Illinois would be an interesting one for DIII. I'm originally from there, and I know a lot of people who hate UWW...but then again. a lot of CCIW schools/fans (not from Naperville) I'm sure would vote for NCC.

D3MAFAN

#3
Quote from: jknezek on August 07, 2014, 03:31:47 PM
Considering UWW, UMU, Wesley, Linfield and UMHB all wear purple I'm guessing you'd have a whole lot of purple across the map. However, the map might not be so readable. There are twice as many D3 teams as D1 (counting the new autonomous teams there are 4 times as many D3 teams as those with full advantage to compete in D1), so you'd end up with a lot of little rivalries. For example, UMU might be hated in a lot of areas but if you asked Wabash fans who they hate most it would have to be Depauw. I can't imagine anyone in the HCAC dislikes UMU more than Franklin. Wesley might be toughest to beat in the mid-Atlantic but they aren't really a "hated" rivalry for anyone, since they've been independent and forced to play such an odd group of teams every year. Either way, I don't think you'd end up with a UT-Austin sized area across D3 like you do in the D1 map. Too many conferences each with a couple of true rivalries...

I don't know about purple, but I do agree that in the D 3 landscape, most hated (and most respected) would usually be conference rivals or area rivals. Also, I had a chance to talk to a number of people in the mid-Atlantic, mainly from CAC schools that have a strong dislike for Wesley due to them being an independent institution. Also, I've heard that the Route 13 rivalry can get intense at times. Overall, I think teams that win majority of the time are the most disliked, but it only makes watching sports that more exciting when it comes to rivalries and such.

jknezek

Yeah. Salisbury is the rivalry for Wesley, but I bet Frostburg would go with Salisbury. But again, that's a pretty small area. Does CNU really hate Wesley? Or Salisbury? Or one of their current conference teams? Or anyone? If you asked W&L I don't know how it would go. Some combination of Bridgewater, HSC, Centre and Sewanee, which is half the freaking schedule. I'd guess HSC this year since they are expected to be top dog...

Ralph Turner

Wesley is actually navy and white, not purple.

If they changed their color from navy to purple, they might win the Stagg!   :)

ExTartanPlayer

#6
Fascinating because the "most hated" schools are really also the schools with the biggest fan followings themselves (not unlike the Yankees/Red Sox in baseball, the Lakers in basketball, the Cowboys in football).  I assume Alabama gets the "most hated" label in that region from Auburn and LSU fans?  Texas, likewise, from "all other Texas and Big 12 schools" and USC from "all other PAC-12 schools" - it's amusing to see those two schools so reviled in their own home state by "other school" fans when the opposite is true for Michigan-OSU (of course, this makes sense).  There are a couple of puzzlers (why is Michigan the most hated school in Nevada? why is Washington more hated in Oregon than USC?)

The main driver seems to be conference/blood rivalries more than national success.

I'll go against the first few replies here: I don't think there would be all THAT much purple because I don't think Mount, UWW, UMHB are really "hated" that much nationwide; they seem to be pretty highly respected around the country for their success, and they're basically ignored by most schools who never realistically expect to play against them anyway (I remember being surprised at how little most of my teammates really knew about the Division III scene when I was in college; I was one of a handful of guys that read d3football.com regularly and became at least somewhat aware of the national scene, and I was the only guy who made it a point to watch the Stagg Bowl).  I go with jknezek's point of view that the map would be virtually unreadable because there are so many more conferences and that the "most hated" would lean more towards local rivalries than the national powers. 

(as a CMU player, my "most hated" answer would have probably been WashU...but I'm guessing the other Western-PA Division III schools would have had very different answers - most of the PAC schools probably would say Washington & Jefferson, I'd guess, so you might have a little pocket there...probably anywhere there was one team especially dominant within its conference, you might have a pocket of "unanimity" in the most hated department)
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

d-train

#7
Ducks vs. Huskies runs deep. That one doesn't puzzle me at all.  I'm amused by the BYU hate (more to that one than just football).

On a possible D3 version: I wonder if Rowan would still get quite a few votes in the East.  Or are those KC Keeler, Beast of the East, days too far in the past.  I'm sure that others are sick of MtU 'going' East for the postseason, but I don't know if that would trump the local/conference rivals.

@d3jason

Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 07, 2014, 05:52:30 PM
Wesley is actually navy and white, not purple.

If they changed their color from navy to purple, they might win the Stagg!   :)

And I think they would be willing to do this!

Breckenridgebear

What about Wabash? Those guys are the WORST.

DePauw Never Quits!
DePauw Never Quits

"This happens every year. It's the mere stupidity of supposedly mature college kids acting like a bunch of horse's dicks." - Officer Keller, The Crawfordsville Police Department

wally_wabash

Quote from: Breckenridgebear on September 12, 2014, 10:52:28 AM
What about Wabash? Those guys are the WORST.

DePauw Never Quits!

There is not a student at your school that has ever actually seen or touched the Monon Bell.  It exists only in legend.  Enough outta you until your team can actually play a competitive game in this series. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Breckenridgebear

My point exactly. Just the worst.
DePauw Never Quits

"This happens every year. It's the mere stupidity of supposedly mature college kids acting like a bunch of horse's dicks." - Officer Keller, The Crawfordsville Police Department

02 Warhawk

I did a little research over the weekend, and I tried my best to replicate that DI map from above to see how it might look from a DIII football point of view. I took into account that there's not many rivalries that cross over state lines like DI, but rather each state (conference) might have it's own less desirable school. I'll try my best not to use the work hate in here (even though it's already been stated in the name of the thread). To hate something, means you don't respect it, in my opinion. Which isn't the case at all with most of these rivalries.

Obviously there is tons of room for debate on this, and I can easily be persuaded one way or another on many of these states....especially out East. However, there were a few clear cut ones like Ohio (Mount), Wisconsin (UWW), Oregon and Washington (Linfield), Texas (MHB). So please weigh in, and let me know your thoughts on some of these. For the record, I just listed states that have D3 football programs. because I'm confident the fine folks in Wyoming couldn't even name a DIII school...let alone hold one in contempt.

OR: Linfield - Easy enough
WA: Linfield - Easy enough
CA: Linfield - Since not one team in the SCIAC stands out from the rest as dominating a conference like Linfield has in the NWC. I think it's safe to assume everyone in the SCIAC has a mutual dislike for the Wildcats. Especially since Linfield typically knocks out the SCIAC champ in the playoffs each year.
MN: St. Thomas - St. John's seemed like the obvious choice since they have won 1/3 of its MIAC titles dating back to 1920. But there seems to be a lot of respect for the Johnnies, rather than disdain. St. Thomas, however, receives a lot of envious eyes the way they've built up their athletic program (recently and fast) making them successful.
IA: Central - The Dutch have experienced a lot of success in the IIAC over the years. So I could understand if many IIAC programs sees Central as the team that sets the bar. This is a state I could easily be persuaded to go with another school.
MO: Chicago - Given there's only two DIII football programs in Missouri, it was easy to learn that Wash U has a long standing rivalry with the Moroons. These two teams play for the Founders Cup each year.
AR: Westminster - A rivalry could be in the making between Hendrix (the only DIII program in AR) and Westminster. The Blue Jays have lost to Hendrix in each of Hendrix's first two seasons they've fielded a team (2013 and 2014).
TX: MHB - Not too much of an argument here.
LA: MHB - Louisiana College's rival Mississippi College is no longer in the DIII picture. So, I would think MHB defaults as the Wildcat's team to beat in the ASC. Right  ???
TN: Trinity (TX) - Both Sewanee and Rhodes have never fared too well against Trinity dating back to their SCAC days. Plus I'm sure they hated that long trip to boot.
KY: Mount St. Joseph - Each year Thomas More battles the Lions in the Bridge Bowl.
IL: NCC - There's numerous conferences in this state, with many rivalries. But given how many CCIW teams reside in IL, they must get sick of NCC taking the crown for the better part of 10 years. 20 years ago, Augustana would have been the easy choice for IL.
WI: UWW - No explanation needed.
IN: Franklin - You can almost pencil in the Grizzlies as HCAC champs each year....which I'm sure doesn't sit well with the rest of the conference.
MI: Albion - This was another tough one......but I'm sure the MIAA doesn't like the fact that the Britons have only lost three conference games in as many years (2011-13). Plus they are the only team in this conference that has a national championship.
MS: Wesley - With bitter rival Mississippi College out of the DIII picture, I would guess that some of Millsaps animosity is now directed towards Wesley for getting the Pool C bid year in and year out.. Amirght?  :-\
PA: Thomas More - The Saints are kind of on an island in northern Kentucky as far as the rest of the PAC is concerned. I'm sure the conference loathes traveling across Ohio just to lose to the Saints.
WV: Washington & Jefferson - Bethany has a long-standing clash with the Presidents.
VA: Bridgewater (VA) - The Eagles absolutely terrorized the ODAC from '01-'05....never losing a conference game during that stretch.
NC: Greensboro - The Soup Bowl is an interesting rivalry game between Guildford and Greensboro. Winning the game is only half of it, as each school also competes to see who raises the most canned goods for charity. I selected Greensboro because there are two other USAC foes in the state of NC, while none of Guildford's ODAC opponents reside in NC.
AL: Wesley - Much like in Mississippi, both Birmingham-Southern and Huntingdon compete with the Wolverines for the lone Pool C bid. (Open for suggestions on this one).
GA: Huntingdon - LaGrange has faced the Hawks each year since its inaugural season in 2000. Huntingdon has won all but two of the games. Berry College (also in GA) is too new to the DIII scene for any such rivalry.
DL: MHB - Being an independent program (free from conference rivals), It's likely that Wesley has developed a nice rivalry with MHB since they regularly meet in the playoffs.
MD: Johns Hopkins - McDaniel College has been competing annually with the Blue Jays in the Maryland Railroad Lantern Game. These two have been going at it since 1884! :o . The bout has been one-sided lately as the Green Terror haven't taken home the trophy since 2000.
NJ: Rowan - The envy of the NJAC from 1992 to 2006. The Profs reached the Stagg Bowl five times during that span while accumulating 9 NJAC titles.
NY: Hobart - The Statesmen of the LL, are basically the Franklin Grizzlies of the HCAC. Hobart has been almost unbeatable in its conference which is largely based out of NY (along with long-time rival Rochester).
CT: Merchant Marine - The Coast Guard are huge foes of the Mariners, who battle for the Secretaries Cup each year.
MA: Wesleyan - Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan make up the famous "Little Three" rivalry in the NESCAC. Wesleyan is the odd team out as they're located in Connecticut, while the other two are in-state. So it's safe to assume neither the Lord Jeffs and the Ephs think very highly of the Cardinals (and each other).
VT: Norwich - The Cadets have an old rivalry with neighboring Middlebury of the NESCAC. Not to mention in-state ECFC competitor Castleton State.
RI: Curry - This one is a shot in the dark....Unsure who Salve Regina (lone D3 program in Rhode Island) despises the most.
NH: Curry - Plymouth State always seemed to battle Curry on who finished atop the NEFC Boyd conference in the late 2000's
ME: Mass Maritime - The Buccaneers have been fighting Maine Maritime for 42 years over The Admiral's Cup.

Again I can easily concede many of these, as there are numerous people out there with more DIII knowledge than me. I just based my findings on some quick research and educated guesses.  :)

jknezek

#13
I'd only speak for a couple of them but there are so many cases to be made. For TN I highly doubt it's Trinity. Sewanee's rival is probably Depauw. But given the SAA connections I think it's likely Centre is the boogeyman in both Rhodes and Sewanee's case. For Maryville I'd say Methodist, but I doubt you get much consensus.

In VA saying Bridgewater just won't cut it. 10 years ago, probably. 20 years ago it would have been E&H. Today? Probably HSC. The ODAC schools are looking up at HSC, and the Tigers and CNU have played enough recently to share some history. Not too mention the RMC - HSC rivalry is the big one in the state. Bridgewater hasn't really scared anyone in almost a decade.

Delaware is either Salisbury, the traditional rival of Wesley even if the series has been one-sided, or UMU, the traditional end of Wesley's road. In AL you have only two teams and they are disliked rivals of each other. Such as it is the top half of the state will go Huntingdon and the bottom half BSC. There isn't another option.

MS is going with Centre again as the stumbling block for Millsaps. The SAA schools dumped Trinity, which shows either a lot of respect or a lack of respect. Either way, they killed that as a potential rival and at least one side seems uninterested in scheduling the other. To have a rivalry you have to have games.

Hawks88

Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 16, 2014, 03:15:41 PM
AL: Wesley - Much like in Mississippi, both Birmingham-Southern and Huntingdon compete with the Wolverines for the lone Pool C bid. (Open for suggestions on this one).
Personally I dislike BSC much more than Wesley. I have plenty of respect for Wesley as one of the top programs and playing them gives us a good measuring stick to where our program is at. BSC? Nope, don't like 'em at all.