MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Started by sac, February 19, 2005, 11:51:56 AM

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TUAngola and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

realist

During the non-conference portion of the schedule there was some discussion regarding the merit of having a schedule that challenged your team, and how that should make your team ready for conference play.  Alma, Hope and Calvin were/are examples of teams that had tough
non conference schedules.  As shown above each of those teams stands at 3-3 in conference play.  Did these teams really benefit from those schedules or would they have benefited more by playing some "weaker teams"?
Apparently it does not bother the various CCIW, and WIAC conference schools to fatten their W's versus MIAA schools.

There is a quote that I have heard Vince Lombardi is given credit for saying:   Winning is habit forming.  Unfortunately losing is also habit forming."

I won't comment on Alma or Hope, but in Calvin's case it sure seems like they have gotten "comfortable" accepting defeat. 
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TUAngola

Trine 74 Kalamazoo 63

Not much to say on this one yesterday from MTI other than we won.  Led start to finish, had a decent 1st half.  But the second our shooting was colder than the weather outside.  Copeland relys too much on going right when he posts up on the left block.  Need to do use more of his left hand.  So many forced shots.  Hunter and Cummings with good games.  Hunter tweaked an ankle in the second half that slowed him considerably.  Hopefully it won't be a lingering issue.  Outside shooting was nonexistant.  I don't understand why we continually pass up open looks to run the clock and end up with tougher shots, it was almost like we were trying to play the clock the whole second half rather than trying to build on the lead.  Kalamazoo hung around, got it to 5 under 2 minutest to play, then we hit free throws to thwart their comeback bid.  Tanner Blyley for Kzoo with a really good game, he continually beat his guy getting to the rim.  We struggle against teams with guards who get to the rim, Olivet and Baldwin Wallace as prime examples.  Next 3 games are huge for Trine, all on the road, at Alma, at Hope, at Olivet.  Need to steal a win in at least one of those 3.   

Jameswys

@realist don't forget that Olivet played a grueling schedule that included multiple DII teams including the reigning champion Ferris State and the DIII reigning champion Nebraska Wesleyan. Massey has it currently rated the 2nd toughest in DIII. I'd argue it helped prepare Olivet for the rigors of the MIAA season.
Olivet '05

sac

I would not discount Colin Jones arrival as being a bigger factor than the schedule.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: realist on January 20, 2019, 12:06:13 PM
During the non-conference portion of the schedule there was some discussion regarding the merit of having a schedule that challenged your team, and how that should make your team ready for conference play.  Alma, Hope and Calvin were/are examples of teams that had tough
non conference schedules.  As shown above each of those teams stands at 3-3 in conference play.  Did these teams really benefit from those schedules or would they have benefited more by playing some "weaker teams"?
Apparently it does not bother the various CCIW, and WIAC conference schools to fatten their W's versus MIAA schools.

There is a quote that I have heard Vince Lombardi is given credit for saying:   Winning is habit forming.  Unfortunately losing is also habit forming."

I won't comment on Alma or Hope, but in Calvin's case it sure seems like they have gotten "comfortable" accepting defeat.

Not sure how you say something like this when Calvin has recent wins against ... Hope. They are also 3-3 in their last six ... if they were comfortable accepting defeat, wouldn't they have gone 0-6 Wouldn't they have rolled over against Hope? I know you aren't happy with them especially being 8-9, but I am not sure why you think they are comfortable with it and where the evidence is ... especially when grouping them in with two other schools ... but don't comment about their challenges this season.
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Pat Coleman

Even if you're comfortable accepting defeat, that still means there are some teams you wouldn't lose to ... I don't equate "comfortable accepting defeat" with "rolling over for everyone."
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Jameswys

Quote from: sac on January 20, 2019, 06:17:48 PM
I would not discount Colin Jones arrival as being a bigger factor than the schedule.

Agreed! The Train has been a big part of how Olivet has played in the last month or so. The ability to draw a charge also makes teams play a different game driving to the hoop. I just think that the tough schedule and the lack of home games helped Olivet in the MIAA too.
Olivet '05

HOPEful

I won't speak to anyone else, but I'm certain Hope's sub-par defense and shallow roster would have been an issue in conference play, regardless of who they played in their non-conference games.
Let's go Dutchmen!

2015-2016 1-&-Done Tournament Fantasy League Co-Champion

maroonandgold

Quote from: realist on January 20, 2019, 12:06:13 PM
During the non-conference portion of the schedule there was some discussion regarding the merit of having a schedule that challenged your team, and how that should make your team ready for conference play.  Alma, Hope and Calvin were/are examples of teams that had tough
non conference schedules.  As shown above each of those teams stands at 3-3 in conference play.  Did these teams really benefit from those schedules or would they have benefited more by playing some "weaker teams"?
Apparently it does not bother the various CCIW, and WIAC conference schools to fatten their W's versus MIAA schools.

There is a quote that I have heard Vince Lombardi is given credit for saying:   Winning is habit forming.  Unfortunately losing is also habit forming."

I won't comment on Alma or Hope, but in Calvin's case it sure seems like they have gotten "comfortable" accepting defeat.

What leads to this conclusion?  I certainly do not see evidence of that in the in-game coaching.  Is it the lack of emphasis on recruiting?  Or the fact that more people are not expressing their dissatisfaction and disappointment with the current situation of mediocre teams?

HOPEful

Quote from: maroonandgold on January 21, 2019, 09:09:48 AM
What leads to this conclusion?  I certainly do not see evidence of that in the in-game coaching.  Is it the lack of emphasis on recruiting?  Or the fact that more people are not expressing their dissatisfaction and disappointment with the current situation of mediocre teams?
I will say, that I haven't heard the calling for KVS's head with the same fervor and vitriol that I have in years past...

I will also say, that for the first time in his career at Hope, I've at least entertained the thought that perhaps Coach Mitchell just isn't a very good defensive coach. Dietz, Davis, George, Granger, and Vree are all underclassmen that could either prove or dispel this notion in the next couple seasons.
Let's go Dutchmen!

2015-2016 1-&-Done Tournament Fantasy League Co-Champion

HopeKnight

Quote from: HOPEful on January 21, 2019, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: maroonandgold on January 21, 2019, 09:09:48 AM
What leads to this conclusion?  I certainly do not see evidence of that in the in-game coaching.  Is it the lack of emphasis on recruiting?  Or the fact that more people are not expressing their dissatisfaction and disappointment with the current situation of mediocre teams?
I will say, that I haven't heard the calling for KVS's head with the same fervor and vitriol that I have in years past...

I will also say, that for the first time in his career at Hope, I've at least entertained the thought that perhaps Coach Mitchell just isn't a very good defensive coach. Dietz, Davis, George, Granger, and Vree are all underclassmen that could either prove or dispel this notion in the next couple seasons.

Hope Defense? Not too sure what we saw against Olivet even qualifies for defense or offense. The effort and game plan were both very poor. Players seemed to be uninterested and defeated early in the first half. No adjustments were made and Olivet won easily and could have won by 40.

KVS has had much less talent at Calvin over the last few years compared to Mitchell's talent at Hope. Calvin has beaten Hope more often despite this gap. The Calvin fans may not like KVS so much but they probably feel confident when he coaches against Mitchell. Look for Calvin to sweep Hope this year despite a very average team. Calvin has more depth and plays better defense.

sac

Quote from: HopeKnight on January 21, 2019, 05:02:34 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 21, 2019, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: maroonandgold on January 21, 2019, 09:09:48 AM
What leads to this conclusion?  I certainly do not see evidence of that in the in-game coaching.  Is it the lack of emphasis on recruiting?  Or the fact that more people are not expressing their dissatisfaction and disappointment with the current situation of mediocre teams?
I will say, that I haven't heard the calling for KVS's head with the same fervor and vitriol that I have in years past...

I will also say, that for the first time in his career at Hope, I've at least entertained the thought that perhaps Coach Mitchell just isn't a very good defensive coach. Dietz, Davis, George, Granger, and Vree are all underclassmen that could either prove or dispel this notion in the next couple seasons.

Hope Defense? Not too sure what we saw against Olivet even qualifies for defense or offense. The effort and game plan were both very poor. Players seemed to be uninterested and defeated early in the first half. No adjustments were made and Olivet won easily and could have won by 40.

KVS has had much less talent at Calvin over the last few years compared to Mitchell's talent at Hope. Calvin has beaten Hope more often despite this gap. The Calvin fans may not like KVS so much but they probably feel confident when he coaches against Mitchell. Look for Calvin to sweep Hope this year despite a very average team. Calvin has more depth and plays better defense.

Interesting take since its 5-6 and 3 of those Calvin wins were in year 1 when Calvin won the league and had better overall talent in a year Hope was still pretty young.

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/mbkb/2014-15/roster   Hope started 3 JR's and 2  So's that year and the first two guys off the bench were a Soph and Fr.  I don't think Hope had more talent than that Calvin team.

Flying Dutch Fan

Quote from: sac on January 22, 2019, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: HopeKnight on January 21, 2019, 05:02:34 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 21, 2019, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: maroonandgold on January 21, 2019, 09:09:48 AM
What leads to this conclusion?  I certainly do not see evidence of that in the in-game coaching.  Is it the lack of emphasis on recruiting?  Or the fact that more people are not expressing their dissatisfaction and disappointment with the current situation of mediocre teams?
I will say, that I haven't heard the calling for KVS's head with the same fervor and vitriol that I have in years past...

I will also say, that for the first time in his career at Hope, I've at least entertained the thought that perhaps Coach Mitchell just isn't a very good defensive coach. Dietz, Davis, George, Granger, and Vree are all underclassmen that could either prove or dispel this notion in the next couple seasons.

Hope Defense? Not too sure what we saw against Olivet even qualifies for defense or offense. The effort and game plan were both very poor. Players seemed to be uninterested and defeated early in the first half. No adjustments were made and Olivet won easily and could have won by 40.

KVS has had much less talent at Calvin over the last few years compared to Mitchell's talent at Hope. Calvin has beaten Hope more often despite this gap. The Calvin fans may not like KVS so much but they probably feel confident when he coaches against Mitchell. Look for Calvin to sweep Hope this year despite a very average team. Calvin has more depth and plays better defense.

Interesting take since its 5-6 and 3 of those Calvin wins were in year 1 when Calvin won the league and had better overall talent in a year Hope was still pretty young.

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/mbkb/2014-15/roster   Hope started 3 JR's and 2  So's that year and the first two guys off the bench were a Soph and Fr.  I don't think Hope had more talent than that Calvin team.

Add in that Hope has been to the NCAA tourney in 3 of those 4 years, while Calvin has gone twice. 
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goodknight

KnightSlappy

Captain obvious alert, but we have some must-win games tonight for Calvin and Hope if either wish to find themselves in the hunt for the conference title.

sac

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 23, 2019, 03:35:36 PM
Captain obvious alert, but we have some must-win games tonight for Calvin and Hope if either wish to find themselves in the hunt for the conference title.

Big weeks for Olivet and Albion too

Albion @ Hope tonight, at Olivet Saturday
Olivet  @ Calvin tonight, host Albion Saturday.

Expect some changes in the directions of the standings this week.