FB: Upper Midwest Athletic Conference

[admin]

This is the new home of UMAC discussion. Welcome aboard, everyone.

[johnnie_esq]

To get this board moving, since I've already seen some of a scouting report on Northwestern, why else should SJU be worried about the Eagles?

Where will NWC finish in the UMAC this year?  Should they be afraid of Martin Luther again?

[DuffMan]

Apparently, we have no UMAC fans

[AO]

I don't see why Northwestern wouldn't be the favorite to win the UMAC title this year.  If the recruits live up to the hype, you also might see a good game with the Johnnies.

And you may be right, the UMAC is not yet a d3 conference and as such the fans haven't looked into this sort of site to follow the teams.

[Pat Coleman]

And the one who is here needed three personal invitations before he joined up.

[johnnie_esq]

AO, who else should we look for?  Has Crown reaped any benefits after playing for a financial reward against SJU two years ago?  Has that translated into better recruits?

How do you explain NWC losing to Martin Luther last year?

[AO]

Is it so wrong for a Crown football team to play St. John's?  Or even a Northwestern in your mind.  I thought we all had the Division 3 mentality that we aren't about the money.  If I'm the athletic Director I want to schedule a game or two against teams in a better division, maybe schedule a UMD or like last year, a Lindenwood.  The Losing team will seem overmmatched but if they keep putting themselves against competition like that, they are going to rise to the challenge.  Like I've made the case before, the athletes are there, some of the intangibles aren't there in a teams with little tradition and little experience playing against big-time teams.

and when did I get three personal invitations?

[johnnie_esq]

I've never said it was wrong for UMAC teams to schedule MIAC teams. I don't think it is wrong for Crown to schedule SJU.  I don't think it's wrong for NWC to schedule SJU (although there are others, particularly from the Northwest Conference, who may disagree).  You may be a bit pie-in-the-sky about your chances, but you've been told that plenty of times recently.

Seriously, I do think you may be a bit naive to think that such a game is all about the football.

Read this article if you have the chance.  http://www.crown.edu/index.php?id=62&backPID=8&begin_at=18&tt_news=233
It's a piece by Dan Barreiro in the Strib from 2003 regarding the Crown/SJU game.  While it discusses Crown's desire to play, I'll bring the relevant quote that stuck out in my mind: "I talked to [offensive coordinator Jim Gagliardi] during the summer, and he asked if I knew anybody who had an open date the week before the playoffs," Auer recalled. "They wanted to play that week. I thought about it, talked to my coaches and players, and we decided to go for it. We need to build onto our press box, and we need other help with the program, and with the guarantee they give us, this is a great opportunity."

I know it is D3, but in this world of declining athletic budgets and increased importance on donor dollars, athletics are a major connection that colleges are using to keep afloat.  It's a fact of the matter that you have to pay the piper to keep going.  Sad, but that's reality.

Every year Duke schedules Florida State.  Baylor schedules Texas.  Not to bring up a story close to home, but Mac used to schedule SJU.  These are teams with a decent amount of historical tradition that tried to rise against schools that combine tradition with resources, and while they'll win a game here and there, it won't be the case of consistent success.

By the way, calling Hamline, Gustavus, or Carleton squads with little tradition is pretty short-sighted.  Ask why Carleton has such a big stadium sometime, or how Gagliardi was asked if he could beat St. Olaf or Gustavus when he was hired.  They have plenty of tradition-- success has been hard to come by, however, for these squads recently, though all have won MIAC titles within the past 18 years, I beleive.

[AO]

You make a good point there.  Crown is reaping some benefits from playing that sort of game.  Whatever bit of money that may have been involved was probably put to good use along with the recruiting tool of saying that you play teams like
St. John's occasionally.  If you're a guy like me you want to hear that the team you're going to play for doesn't just dominate a conference, but rather tries to schedule teams that are seemingly on a whole different level of gameplay.  Such as, a St. John's scheduling St. Cloud State.  I feel like St. John's doesn't schedule the d2's because they are afraid of cutting into gag's record number of wins.   Maybe?  I don't know.

[johnnie_esq]

AO, SJU last played SCSU in 1983, after SJU had won 9 of the last 10 meetings between the squads and held a 37-18-1 all-time record over the Huskies.  SJU played D-2 Bemidji State (NAIA then?) during the 1990s as well and took 3 of 4 from the Beavers as well.  That, and the Jays' playoff record, speak for itself regarding Gags' fear of scheduling tough opponents.

Back to UMAC football, I read the kickoff-- tell me your predicted order of UMAC finish.

[DuffMan]

SJU playing SCSU is also on a different level than Crown playing SJU.  SCSU offers scholarships and is a much bigger school.  With the UMAC transitioning to d-III, it only seems nautral to schedule d-III opponents.  SJU is not in the position of moving to d-II, so why play them.  Also, there is no motivation for SCSU to play SJU.  If they'd win, it wouldn't help their ratings or get them any respect.  If they'd lose, they'd be the laughing stock of the NCC.

[Pat Coleman]

If I'm the athletic Director I want to schedule a game or two against teams in a better division, maybe schedule a UMD or like last year, a Lindenwood.

In scheduling St. John's, you are scheduling a team from a better division. Northwestern isn't a full member of Division III yet -- it's less than one month into a four-year process of entry.

and when did I get three personal invitations?

On the MIAC board.

[AO]

Well i'm glad i can discuss the UMAC in here with Johnnie Fans, but i wasn't going to start a discussion with myself with no other visible fans of the UMAC on this board.  Which is to be expected as Pat has stated that we are just entering DIII as a conference.  But I, being the biased fan and player that I am do not believe that the MIAC is the large step up that some of you think that it is from the kind of competition that Northwestern teams see regularly.  Northwestern teams have regularly played against some of the better NAIA teams in the country from Illinois, Missouri and Iowa.  The basketball team which I am a member of will be playing for a spot in the NCCAA division 1 basketball tournament which features teams with some very talented and athletic scholarship athletes.   No, the UMAC is going to win a majority of games versus the MIAC in football right now, but if you look at the other major sports such as Basketball, Baseball and maybe Soccer, the two conferences would look very even right now.

Again, moving from NAIA II to NCAA III is really not a step-up.  We made the move so that we would be more competitive with teams than we were with some of the better NAIA II schools who gave out athletic scholarships while we did not.

[johnnie_esq]

AO, we can agree to disagree on that point-- that's fine, so please, can you drop the chip off your shoulder and talk some football?

So let's talk some UMAC-- who else will challenge NWC for the UMAC title?  Why won't Martin Luther beat NWC? What about the South Division?

[Pat Coleman]

i wasn't going to start a discussion with myself with no other visible fans of the UMAC on this board.

Well, you sure weren't going to start a UMAC discussion on the MIAC board. You can't start one if you don't try.