FB: American Southwest Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:08:10 AM

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crufootball

Quote from: TheChucker on November 17, 2022, 01:51:31 PM
The LSC already has 10 football members, so 11 including Sul Ross. Would there even be room for more teams? Just looking at the LSC football website, they haven't had more than 10 teams going back at least 10 years.

True, but 3 of those members are definitely not close to the lone star state (Central Washington, Western Oregon and Simon Fraser), I believe they are all affiliate members, would/could the LSC dump them in favor of closer travel opponents?

jknezek

If I was a football playing member of the ASC, possibly any member of the ASC, I'd be on the phone to the SCAC offices. Constantly.

As for UMHB... I don't know who is going to take them in. Would the SCAC be collegial about letting in a giant? I have no idea. Might not be an option for UMHB except changing divisions. From what I can see on the website, all the facilities look compatible. The football stadium we all know is compatible. So funding scholarships becomes the big issue.

I always consider D2 a step down from D3. Extra costs, limited if any extra revenue. But as a stepping stone to FCS you do what you have to do. St. Thomas found a shortcut to FCS, so maybe UMHB can plead a similar case if they can find an FCS invite.

And let me just say what a difference all this is and maybe it gives the ASC hope. 10 years ago we considered the SCAC to be on death's door. Now it might be the best option going. Tables can always turn...


Ralph Turner

Quote from: jknezek on November 17, 2022, 02:40:19 PM
If I was a football playing member of the ASC, possibly any member of the ASC, I'd be on the phone to the SCAC offices. Constantly.

As for UMHB... I don't know who is going to take them in. Would the SCAC be collegial about letting in a giant? I have no idea. Might not be an option for UMHB except changing divisions. From what I can see on the website, all the facilities look compatible. The football stadium we all know is compatible. So funding scholarships becomes the big issue.

I always consider D2 a step down from D3. Extra costs, limited if any extra revenue. But as a stepping stone to FCS you do what you have to do. St. Thomas found a shortcut to FCS, so maybe UMHB can plead a similar case if they can find an FCS invite.

And let me just say what a difference all this is and maybe it gives the ASC hope. 10 years ago we considered the SCAC to be on death's door. Now it might be the best option going. Tables can always turn...
That can be attributed to the Commissioner, Dwayne Hanberry.

IMHO, he is the most successful commissioner in D3.

Ron Boerger

Quote from: jknezek on November 17, 2022, 02:40:19 PM
And let me just say what a difference all this is and maybe it gives the ASC hope. 10 years ago we considered the SCAC to be on death's door. Now it might be the best option going. Tables can always turn...

The thing the ASC has going for it the SCAC didn't is that even with the teams leaving the conference (if SRSU leaves, two; the others are single-sport affiliates) it still has plenty of schools left to be a viable conference, just not (as it stands) for football.  The SCAC only had four schools left (Trinity, Southwestern, Austin, Colorado) after the announcement by the now SAA schools, with TLU and UDallas joining by the time the SAA was formed.

I don't know what the solution will be for the ASC, but hope it can find a way to continue as did the SCAC.  And not by hiring Dwayne Hanberry, who I agree with Ralph did an amazing job under difficult circumstances to rebuild that conference, and continues to surprise as shown by the announcements of the last month.

CowboyAlum261

I've heard on the rumor mill that HSU to the SCAC is a no go because HSU is unwilling to play any games, in any sport, on Sundays. And while HSU probably has the facilities to go D2, I don't think they have the money to do so. I still think the ASC's best hope is a combination of getting some current members to start sponsoring football, and bringing in some NAIA teams. If Letourneau and Concordia started up programs, and you could bring in Texas Wesleyan and SAGU, you'd have a viable 8-team conference again. I don't see many other options.

Riley Zayas

Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on November 17, 2022, 03:52:07 PM
I've heard on the rumor mill that HSU to the SCAC is a no go because HSU is unwilling to play any games, in any sport, on Sundays. And while HSU probably has the facilities to go D2, I don't think they have the money to do so. I still think the ASC's best hope is a combination of getting some current members to start sponsoring football, and bringing in some NAIA teams. If Letourneau and Concordia started up programs, and you could bring in Texas Wesleyan and SAGU, you'd have a viable 8-team conference again. I don't see many other options.

Really late to the conversation on this one, haha. Had obviously been following the news as it played out yesterday, but this is the first time I've logged onto here since earlier in the week. Adding one football school probably would have been viable, but having to add two seems nearly impossible. I reached out the ASC Commissioner, Amy Carlton, on the same day the SCAC announced it was starting football. She was extremely nice, but only said that the ASC "will continue its ongoing process assessing institutions with interest in American Southwest Conference membership either as full conference members or as an affiliate in one of our 16 sports, and if not already in NCAA Division III, with interest in moving to the division."

Honestly, from everyone I have talked to, and my opinion as well (not that it matters in all of this) is that D3 is more prestigious than D2. D3 has plenty more teams, higher-quality academic institutions and programs with long traditions. Plus, there's something special about D3 and the idea of no athletic scholarships. It'd be hard for UMHB or HSU to go a season without playing each other. It'd be hard to leave behind all the great playoff battles with UW-Whitewater. I just don't know that D2 has the same appeal as D3.

If I'm UMHB, or HSU for that matter, I'm doing whatever I can to stay D3. Finances-wise, this makes the most sense. Tradition-wise too, considering a move to D2 erasing virtually every rivalry ever created in any sport. And throw in the 4-year transition period with zero opportunity to play for national championships. Yes, the D3s in the west seem to lack respect from the various committees. But I'd take that over a lengthy transition to D2. Just my $0.02.
Proverbs 21:31. D3hoops.com WBB Top 25 voter. On the UMHB beat as the managing editor of TrueToTheCru.com, covering everything in CRU athletics. Read my blog, The Scoop on D3 Women's Hoops. Find it on the D3hoops.com Daily Dose.

Ron Boerger

No update yet on the Sul Ross website (either the main one or the athletic site) regarding their D2 decision, which was on the Texas State System board agenda yesterday.   They *did* announce that the board approved installing interim president Carlos Hernandez as the school's 14th president during that meeting.

Etchglow

#24518
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2022, 10:00:52 AM
No update yet on the Sul Ross website (either the main one or the athletic site) regarding their D2 decision, which was on the Texas State System board agenda yesterday.   They *did* announce that the board approved installing interim president Carlos Hernandez as the school's 14th president during that meeting.

I'll dig through the streams, but it looks like it is only approval to enter contract negotiations.  From the meeting notes:

Quote
Contracts 8.
    A. SRSU: Delegate Authority to Negotiate and Execute Contract between Sul Ross State University and Lone Star Conference

Edit:  Here is the link to the discussion: https://youtu.be/3KX3EsjX4bU?t=3360

Looks like they're arguing that it'll elevate competition, and that scholarships will be offset by reduced travel costs.  I'm not really sure how that really floats because there is only a 50 mile difference in average for all the schools and median is only a 4 mile difference.  Plus, you're going from a 7 member conference to a 17 member conference.  That isn't even counting the 3 football teams that are over 1800 miles away (affiliate members).

Edit2:

They approved the motion to allow them to enter contract negotiations with the Lone Star Conference.

TheChucker

Quote from: True To The Cru/Riley Zayas on November 18, 2022, 12:36:48 AM
Quote from: CowboyAlum261 on November 17, 2022, 03:52:07 PM
I've heard on the rumor mill that HSU to the SCAC is a no go because HSU is unwilling to play any games, in any sport, on Sundays. And while HSU probably has the facilities to go D2, I don't think they have the money to do so. I still think the ASC's best hope is a combination of getting some current members to start sponsoring football, and bringing in some NAIA teams. If Letourneau and Concordia started up programs, and you could bring in Texas Wesleyan and SAGU, you'd have a viable 8-team conference again. I don't see many other options.

Really late to the conversation on this one, haha. Had obviously been following the news as it played out yesterday, but this is the first time I've logged onto here since earlier in the week. Adding one football school probably would have been viable, but having to add two seems nearly impossible. I reached out the ASC Commissioner, Amy Carlton, on the same day the SCAC announced it was starting football. She was extremely nice, but only said that the ASC "will continue its ongoing process assessing institutions with interest in American Southwest Conference membership either as full conference members or as an affiliate in one of our 16 sports, and if not already in NCAA Division III, with interest in moving to the division."

Honestly, from everyone I have talked to, and my opinion as well (not that it matters in all of this) is that D3 is more prestigious than D2. D3 has plenty more teams, higher-quality academic institutions and programs with long traditions. Plus, there's something special about D3 and the idea of no athletic scholarships. It'd be hard for UMHB or HSU to go a season without playing each other. It'd be hard to leave behind all the great playoff battles with UW-Whitewater. I just don't know that D2 has the same appeal as D3.

If I'm UMHB, or HSU for that matter, I'm doing whatever I can to stay D3. Finances-wise, this makes the most sense. Tradition-wise too, considering a move to D2 erasing virtually every rivalry ever created in any sport. And throw in the 4-year transition period with zero opportunity to play for national championships. Yes, the D3s in the west seem to lack respect from the various committees. But I'd take that over a lengthy transition to D2. Just my $0.02.

Great comments!

Placing incremental scholarship costs aside, a jump to D2 probably isn't much of a stretch for a school like UMHB. Based on 2019 non-scholarship athletic expenditures per the Equity in Athletics website, UMHB would already be at #3 for current LSC schools behind West TX A&M and TAMU-Kingsville. The extra $2 million or so LSC schools spend on scholarships is the question. A private school would technically pay more in athletic scholarships, but schools like UMHB already have substantial financial aid for athletes so it's hard for an outsider to know what the incremental cost could be.  The question is would increased revenue from more competitive competition (especially in football) and maybe increased brand awareness (attracting more students) be enough to offset the cost?

In the end, if the ASC blows up, UMHB and maybe HSU might not have a choice but to consider different divisions.

MonroviaCat

Quote from: D O.C. on November 19, 2022, 01:42:52 AM
< Equity in Athletics >
The A.D. who made football go away at Occidental is female.
The Whittier President who is dropping footnall is female.
I trust the ASC Commissioner is stand up.
"What has gender got to do with it?" Open your eyes.
LINFIELD now has women's wrestling that gets that equitable budget and press on campus that the 66 year winning team does.

The president at Occidental who dropped football is male.  The Athletic Director at Whittier is male.  Before your post, I had no idea Linfield had a women's wresting team and I pay pretty close attention to Linfield athletics (the Football team is getting plenty of press).  Quite cherry picking DOC and quit blaming women for the failures of male dominated institutions.  Long held beliefs such as yours are the reason Equity in Athletics are needed.
Go Cats!

Kelly Boggs

Hardin Simmons has still NOT won a playoff game since 2000.
UMHB alumnus and proud supporter of The CRU. "UP with the PURPLE!" 

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas." - Darrell Royal

"Never make excuses. Your friends don't need them and your foes won't believe them." John Wooden

MonroviaCat

Quote from: Kelly Boggs on November 19, 2022, 04:22:38 PM
Hardin Simmons has still NOT won a playoff game since 2000.
dang.  that was a tight one--start to finish.
Go Cats!

Ralph Turner

Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 19, 2022, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: Kelly Boggs on November 19, 2022, 04:22:38 PM
Hardin Simmons has still NOT won a playoff game since 2000.
dang.  that was a tight one--start to finish.
My vote for Play-of-the-Game is the strip of the recovered fumble that kept the ball for Trinity.

That play would have been overturned if there were Instant Replay.

tigerguy

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2022, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 19, 2022, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: Kelly Boggs on November 19, 2022, 04:22:38 PM
Hardin Simmons has still NOT won a playoff game since 2000.
dang.  that was a tight one--start to finish.
My vote for Play-of-the-Game is the strip of the recovered fumble that kept the ball for Trinity.

That play would have been overturned if there were Instant Replay.

Agreed - seems like Trinity player got it back after the HSU recovered and play was dead. But, I also think they don't pick up the flag for targeting/hit to defenseless player against HSU with replay. So I guess it evens out? Or did Trinity still score on that drive?