MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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voxelmhurst

Elmhurst defeated Millikin 75-73 in an absolute dogfight of a game. John Ittounas finished with 24 for Elmhurst, with some big buckets down the stretch. Both teams really went at each other and it was one of the better played Elmhurst/Millikin games of recent memory.

The Bluejays have clawed, or perhaps more accurately, have flown back to .500 in CCIW play. This is also the first time Elmhurst has won back-to-back conference games this season.

During the broadcast it was mentioned that Wes Hooker has been out per concussion protocol these last two games, but is expected to return for Elmhurst's next run of games, all of which are on the road (Wesleyan, North Central, Carroll).

Gregory Sager

#56941
Quote from: GoPerry on January 25, 2023, 10:01:52 PMI'll echo others that it is a tremendous oversight that North Park is not getting any votes.  One possible explanation is that voters aren't watching their games?  I can think of other possible reasons too that have less legitimacy.

Talking with Mike Schauer before the game tonight, he repeated what he said on Hoopsville last Thursday: "If the Vikings had 'Illinois Wesleyan' printed across their chests instead of 'North Park', everyone would be looking at them differently."

Quote from: GoPerry on January 25, 2023, 10:01:52 PMA very good chance these two teams will meet again this season.  Only a matter of where.

I don't doubt it one bit.

NPU head coach Sean Smith made a solid point in the postgame show that any team that can give up 25 turnovers in a game and yet still be in it at the very end has to be a great team. I have nothing but respect for that WC squad.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

USee

At this point it would be comical for North Park to not be in the top 25 if that's not a top 25 team, I'm not sure who is. 

npbaseball40

#56943
Quote from: itsnotmeitsyou on April 14, 2022, 12:31:02 AM

Always a sign of good leadership when you decide to make a coaching change, with no particular candidate in mind, go thru the process and end up with a coach possessing exponentially less qualifications than the person he replaced. 

Looks like Vegas has set the Over/Under on number of times that the NPU Vikings will finish 7th or higher in CCIW league play during the remainder of the decade at: .5    I'm taking the Under.

Nothing set in stone with the CCIW standings, of course, but I do enjoy looking back on the opinions from last April. I won't call anyone out, but some posters owe HC Sean Smith and AD John Born a good ol' online apology.

Gregory Sager

I'm thinking of printing out that quote from itsnotmeitsmyposts, framing it, and giving it to John Born to hang on his office wall.

He'd get a kick out of it.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: USee on January 25, 2023, 11:38:37 PM
At this point it would be comical for North Park to not be in the top 25 if that's not a top 25 team, I'm not sure who is.

At this point, it's not so much about which teams are talented enough, but which teams can play consistently at a Top 25 level. Those are harder to find, but NPU is making a very good case for it.
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WUPHF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2023, 01:07:21 AM
I'm thinking of printing out that quote from itsnotmeitsmyposts, framing it, and giving it to John Born to hang on his office wall.

He'd get a kick out of it.

If nothing else, you gotta email it to him.

npbaseball40

Quote from: WUPHF on January 26, 2023, 09:28:33 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2023, 01:07:21 AM
I'm thinking of printing out that quote from itsnotmeitsmyposts, framing it, and giving it to John Born to hang on his office wall.

He'd get a kick out of it.

If nothing else, you gotta email it to him.
Oh, he's well-aware of that specific banter on here.

Greek Tragedy

I imagine NPU willl get a few votes, but they aren't going from zero votes to Top 25. They beat a very good Wheaton team at home. In fact, NPU might have even been slight favorites in last night's game...or maybe a very small underdog. Obviously they won't get many more votes beating up on Carroll this weekend. Drew has Wheaton as a near lock at 99% and has NPU in the "bubble in" category at 69% and the #9 Pool C team.

http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html
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CarrollBooster

The only thing left for Carroll is, who is the new coach going to be? 

Another fairly noncompetitive loss last night, at Carthage who played without Bulatovic.

I asked this a few months ago, but I don't have my ear to the ground, and am not an insider.  If anyone has further thoughts, or has heard anything, would like to hear.

My only input is -- Carroll needs to look at North Park for an example of how this should work.  New coach with a play style and brand of basketball/philosophy that fits with the program, players, etc.  Sean Smith seems to fit North Park, and North Park fits him.  Taken a lot of the same players, sprinkled in a few new ones -- but most importantly brought a playing style/program culture that fits, and in my way of thinking fits as different in the CCIW which adds to making them hard to prepare for and play against.  All of that has added up to success, enthusiasm, buy in and a program that seems to have been immediately impacted and headed in the right direction, at least from an outsider's perspective looking in.

My hope is that Carroll, in a way what works for its program and players (which no doubt be totally different than North Park) can find the same formula in a new coach. 

That is assuming they look for a new coach, which I don't know if that is what Carroll plans to do.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2023, 10:11:25 AM
I imagine NPU willl get a few votes, but they aren't going from zero votes to Top 25. They beat a very good Wheaton team at home. In fact, NPU might have even been slight favorites in last night's game...or maybe a very small underdog. Obviously they won't get many more votes beating up on Carroll this weekend. Drew has Wheaton as a near lock at 99% and has NPU in the "bubble in" category at 69% and the #9 Pool C team.

http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html

That's progress, because last night on Twitter Drew had NPU as the #11 Pool C team.

Drew had North Park as a three-point underdog, and Matt Snyder had the game as a push but leaning Wheaton, with Massey calling Wheaton a five-point favorite (further emphasizing why this season will henceforth be known as the year I divorced Ken Massey's computer).

I'm not assuming that North Park will "beat up on" Carroll on Saturday by any means. For one thing, Carthage made that assumption heading into Waukesha a few weeks ago, and look where it got them. For another, the Vikes barely squeaked by the Pioneers in the crackerbox a couple of weeks ago. This is a very, very bad league for assuming things like that, especially in a season that's proving to be particularly volatile from one night to the next.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

kiko

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2023, 10:11:25 AM
I imagine NPU willl get a few votes, but they aren't going from zero votes to Top 25. They beat a very good Wheaton team at home. In fact, NPU might have even been slight favorites in last night's game...or maybe a very small underdog. Obviously they won't get many more votes beating up on Carroll this weekend. Drew has Wheaton as a near lock at 99% and has NPU in the "bubble in" category at 69% and the #9 Pool C team.

http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html

I guess my question on this would be: if they were slightly favored to beat the eighth ranked team in the country when we are 2/3 of the way through the season, then how are they not a Top 25 team?  I hear you on the couple of times they have underwhelmed, but I'd venture that pretty much everyone the 15-25 range has one or more of those on their CV.

markerickson

I have attended four Viking home games so far.  After game one I posted NPU has three guards, unlike last year's squad who had zero, that want to penetrate the paint.  And can do so productively.  Marquise Jackson took over the game for his team by driving for at least six "easy" layups while being defended.  He has the strength and it seems like he is gaining confidence to drive.  Not only is he quick on D, but he also anticipates passes.  Numerous other NP defenders also anticipate, which leads to the high rate of theft.

NP missed far too many shots within just a couple feet.  If that percentage went up, Tyler would have had no chance keeping his team in the game.  When he left with three fouls (for a short stint), no Wheaton player stepped up to the plate.  The team actually looked timid and confused.
Once a metalhead, always a metalhead.  Matthew 5:13.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: kiko on January 26, 2023, 11:00:18 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2023, 10:11:25 AM
I imagine NPU willl get a few votes, but they aren't going from zero votes to Top 25. They beat a very good Wheaton team at home. In fact, NPU might have even been slight favorites in last night's game...or maybe a very small underdog. Obviously they won't get many more votes beating up on Carroll this weekend. Drew has Wheaton as a near lock at 99% and has NPU in the "bubble in" category at 69% and the #9 Pool C team.

http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html

I guess my question on this would be: if they were slightly favored to beat the eighth ranked team in the country when we are 2/3 of the way through the season, then how are they not a Top 25 team?  I hear you on the couple of times they have underwhelmed, but I'd venture that pretty much everyone the 15-25 range has one or more of those on their CV.

Both good points.

Quote from: CarrollBooster on January 26, 2023, 10:36:48 AM
The only thing left for Carroll is, who is the new coach going to be? 

Another fairly noncompetitive loss last night, at Carthage who played without Bulatovic.

I asked this a few months ago, but I don't have my ear to the ground, and am not an insider.  If anyone has further thoughts, or has heard anything, would like to hear.

Funny thing is, one of the guys I figured could be a first-choice candidate for the Carroll job just saw his career get shipwrecked on the rocks for overworking his players in a retributive practice that landed several of them in the hospital.

I still see Steve Schweer as a prime candidate for the Carroll job if he's interested. He's having a season to remember at Illinois College in 2022-23, he already has three CCIW schools on his c.v. as a player or coach, and he's a Chicagoland suburban guy who can recruit out there. After all, Carroll has made it plain that it wants to tap into Chicago's 'burbs more heavily. If North Park is a model that Carroll wants to emulate, the Pioneers braintrust could -- I'm dreading saying this -- woo Ed McGhee away from his position as associate head coach under Sean Smith at NPU. Ed not only has head-coaching experience, he took now-defunct Lincoln College to the CCAC tourney championship game last season, beating two NAIA-ranked teams along the way. It's not a question of if NPU is going to lose Ed to some school looking for a new head coach, it's a question of when. Or, if head coaching experience isn't a factor, Vince Kmiec at North Central has certainly paid his dues. Or Carroll could go the other way and bring in a Wisconsin guy who could shore up Carroll's ability to locate and win over kids who are willing to forego the cheaper tuition of a WIAC school.

Quote from: CarrollBooster on January 26, 2023, 10:36:48 AMMy only input is -- Carroll needs to look at North Park for an example of how this should work.

As an aside, I have to marvel at how this comment juxtaposes with the snide insult tossed North Park's way on this board last April 14 in the post Tyler quoted last night. In the space of nine months NPU athletic director John Born has gone from being derided for his hiring decision to being lifted up as a model for forward thinking in how to rebuild a CCIW men's basketball program.

Quote from: CarrollBooster on January 26, 2023, 10:36:48 AMNew coach with a play style and brand of basketball/philosophy that fits with the program, players, etc.  Sean Smith seems to fit North Park, and North Park fits him.

That gets to the heart of why John Born hired Sean, and why I think he's likely to have ongoing success at NPU. Sean "gets" North Park, which I think may be partly attributable to his undergraduate education at NPU's sister school, Trinity International University up in the north suburbs. Sean's faith and values are a great match for NPU, and as a Chicago native he knows this city and how to make a pitch for it, which is a key aspect of recruiting for a school where you sometimes have to sell the city as well as the school itself to a Chicagoland suburban kid.

Quote from: CarrollBooster on January 26, 2023, 10:36:48 AMTaken a lot of the same players, sprinkled in a few new ones -- but most importantly brought a playing style/program culture that fits, and in my way of thinking fits as different in the CCIW which adds to making them hard to prepare for and play against.  All of that has added up to success, enthusiasm, buy in and a program that seems to have been immediately impacted and headed in the right direction, at least from an outsider's perspective looking in.

He's actually taken a few of the same players and sprinkled in a lot of new ones, but otherwise you hit the nail on the head. North Park's newly-adopted style has two virtues to it; it's hard to counter in a league that's not used to playing teams that use this style, and it's a great attractor for this current generation of young ballplayers, many of whom love up-and-down basketball and may be apt to view the CCIW's more traditional style of part-chess, part-sumo-wrestling halfcourt basketball as less appealing.

Quote from: CarrollBooster on January 26, 2023, 10:36:48 AMMy hope is that Carroll, in a way what works for its program and players (which no doubt be totally different than North Park) can find the same formula in a new coach. 

I think you may be on to something. Carroll's in a bit of a bind, recruiting-wise, seeing as it's on the wrong side of the border from the Chicagoland suburbs to give those kids state aid towards their tuition bills while also being on the wrong side of the border in that it has to share Wisconsin with an eight-team league of state schools that dominate at the D3 level and cost a fraction of a Carroll education. It might not be a bad idea for Carroll to follow John Born's lead by hiring a young coach who presents some out-of-the-box thinking in his job interview.

Quote from: CarrollBooster on January 26, 2023, 10:36:48 AMThat is assuming they look for a new coach, which I don't know if that is what Carroll plans to do.

Yeah, it's worth looking at Taylor Jannsen and trying to assess what he's doing right and what he's doing wrong with this unenviable situation thrust upon him when Paul Combs abruptly cleaned out his office back in November.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

WUPHF

The Oshkosh assistant has deep Carroll ties.

But I doubt we will hear anything until after the season is over.