Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 2214763 times)

Offline frank uible

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 4369
  • Karma: +512/-458
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13710 on: January 11, 2018, 01:26:49 pm »
Easier said....

Offline PolarCat

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 878
  • Karma: +309/-267
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13711 on: January 12, 2018, 08:06:13 pm »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, they will never be successful as long as she's there.

Is there another Bates out there that I haven't heard of?  The Bates my kid attends was the 2017 and 2015 NCAA Women's Rowing National Champion (and the runner-up in 2016); the 2017 and 2015 NESCAC Men's Rowing Champion; 2016 CSA National Champions in Squash; made it to the NCAA Men's Lacrosse Quarterfinals in 2017 and the NCAA Second Round in 2018; made it to the NCAA Women's Lacrosse Second Round in 2016; and perennially fields competitive teams in Alpine Skiing, Nordic Skiing, Swimming & Diving, Cross Country, Men's Basketball, and Track & Field. 

If Clayton Spencer was an enemy of athletics, none of those teams would be getting the support they need to perform at that level.  And Bates wouldn't be able to retain outstanding coaches like Peter Lasagna.

Yes, it would be great if all Bobcats teams were exceptional like the residents of Lake Woebegone.  And yes, it sucks that the football team seems consigned to the middle of the CAC pack.  And yes, the coaches lose some recruits to other schools (though the ones who couldn't gain Admission to Bates aren't going to Amherst and Williams, but to other, less-academically particular NESCAC's).

It's true that many students hate Spencer, but that's because of the social life debacle on campus, not because of her antipathy toward athletics.  As a very close observer of Bobcats athletics for the past 4 years, the previous AD was the real culprit, and it's going to take the new guy a while to dig out of the mess he inherited.

Offline Trin8-0

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
  • Karma: +68/-77
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13712 on: January 19, 2018, 11:08:38 am »
I don't know how this compares to the rest of the NESCAC, but winning a championship with one third of your team earning an in-season GPA of 3.4 or higher seems pretty impressive to me. Well done Bants!
NESCAC CHAMPIONS - 1978, 1980, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017
UNDEFEATED SEASONS - 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016

Offline amh63

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4631
  • Karma: +795/-632
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13713 on: January 19, 2018, 04:58:37 pm »
Nice post Trin8-0!  Plus K

Offline Trin8-0

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 652
  • Karma: +68/-77
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13714 on: January 23, 2018, 09:34:56 am »
Trinity announced their 2018 captains via twitter:
https://twitter.com/TrinFootball/status/955801954407669761


Congratulations to:
Max Chipouras, RB
Sameir Madden, DB
Nick Rose, DL
NESCAC CHAMPIONS - 1978, 1980, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017
UNDEFEATED SEASONS - 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016

Online polbear73

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 523
  • Karma: +90/-25
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13715 on: January 26, 2018, 09:00:07 am »
https://bowdoinorient.com/2018/01/26/bowdoin-football-still-time-left-on-the-clock/

A commentary in today's Bowdoin Orient.  A refreshing piece in response to a previous article by someone with an ax to grind regarding the football program at Bowdoin and perhaps in general. 

Offline Jonny Utah

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 7932
  • Karma: +1325/-496
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13716 on: January 26, 2018, 09:53:34 am »
https://bowdoinorient.com/2018/01/26/bowdoin-football-still-time-left-on-the-clock/

A commentary in today's Bowdoin Orient.  A refreshing piece in response to a previous article by someone with an ax to grind regarding the football program at Bowdoin and perhaps in general.

Interesting.  I read both but didn't feel like the first author had an "ax to grind" although the 2nd author was right to call him out on a few things.  One of the things that comes to mind are the secondary schools who have dropped football.  Secondary schools (I'm assuming he means places like Roxbury Latin, Hebron, Holderness, etc) have placed much more of an emphasis on football from what I have seen and the talent level in these mostly New England prep schools has actually gotten better, not worse. 

Offline amh63

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4631
  • Karma: +795/-632
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13717 on: January 26, 2018, 05:11:41 pm »
Having read only the latest side of the discussion wrt the “ future of Bowdoin Football” as I will label it, I will now put my “ two-cents“ worth. 
First I believe Bowdoin will NOT go the way of Swarthmore....another high academic, relative small enrollment and large endownment Liberal Arts College.  No money, academic and political reasons.  Whatever one can say about the relative new Prez’s support to sports in general and football in particular, he is not stupid :).
Bowdoin has a long football tradition.  The win-loss discussion has pointed to the usual culprits of coaches, recruiting, facilities, school location, etc., etc.  The new facilities soon to arrive follows a new coaching staff.  Location has not hinder other sports teams.  Heck, Bowdoin has the third largest endownment in the Nescac...had a fine FY 2017 Endownment return year...implying here that money should not be a wall.  General admittance stats follow or compete with only Williams and Amherst which have the two largest endownment in the CAC.  Given admission support in a school that does NOT rely on ACT or SATs....Bowdoin could compete for a place in the upper tier of the NESCAC.  Amherst, WIlliams, Wesleyan  and Tufts all rebuilt football programs with HC changes after periods of losing seasons.
My take on the authors of articles presented is they both are discussing a “ non problem “.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 05:15:19 pm by amh63 »

Online polbear73

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 523
  • Karma: +90/-25
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13718 on: January 26, 2018, 05:36:07 pm »
Amh63: From your mouth to Clayton Rose's ears! Plus k and keep thoughts coming!

Offline Jonny Utah

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 7932
  • Karma: +1325/-496
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13719 on: January 27, 2018, 08:36:33 am »
Amh63: From your mouth to Clayton Rose's ears! Plus k and keep thoughts coming!

What if they looked into "plan C" I believe, which is to take 3-4 of the bottom nescac schools in football and play their own conference?  What if they could get a few Anna Maria type schools to join them and have the playoffs as a recruiting lure as well.

That will never happen but it is the first time I've heard anyone propose something like that in the NESCAC.

Offline frank uible

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 4369
  • Karma: +512/-458
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13720 on: January 27, 2018, 09:29:18 am »
Jim Ostendorp favored splitting the Maine colleges from the rest of NESCAC, playing some of the non-Maine colleges twice per football season.

Online polbear73

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 523
  • Karma: +90/-25
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13721 on: January 27, 2018, 10:24:09 am »
Amh63: From your mouth to Clayton Rose's ears! Plus k and keep thoughts coming!

What if they looked into "plan C" I believe, which is to take 3-4 of the bottom nescac schools in football and play their own conference?  What if they could get a few Anna Maria type schools to join them and have the playoffs as a recruiting lure as well.

That will never happen but it is the first time I've heard anyone propose something like that in the NESCAC.
For colleges of this caliber, the choice is either be competitive with all of your peer schools or give it up.

Offline Jonny Utah

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 7932
  • Karma: +1325/-496
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13722 on: January 27, 2018, 10:35:58 am »
Amh63: From your mouth to Clayton Rose's ears! Plus k and keep thoughts coming!

What if they looked into "plan C" I believe, which is to take 3-4 of the bottom nescac schools in football and play their own conference?  What if they could get a few Anna Maria type schools to join them and have the playoffs as a recruiting lure as well.

That will never happen but it is the first time I've heard anyone propose something like that in the NESCAC.
For colleges of this caliber, the choice is either be competitive with all of your peer schools or give it up.

I'm not so sure.  What if MIT, Coast Guard, and WPI said they were interested?  7 team league with playoffs?  (Hamilton, Colby, Bates, Bowdoin).  What if Rochester decided they didn't want to put in the $$ that other LL schools do?

I'm sure the NESCAC league office simply wouldn't approve it and it would never happen.  Although the Ivy league schools seem to have a mutual agreement when it comes to tips, financial aid, and admissions in general.  The nescac schools don't appear to be on that same level with each other.

On the other hand, there are other d3 leagues in the country which are much less "competitive" with bottom teams getting beaten by 50 points multiple games a year.  Bowdoin's average is about 3 touchdowns for the year.  Take out the Trinity game and their average loss is 17 points.  Four of their games (about half the season) they lost by less than 2 touchdowns.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 10:41:13 am by Jonny Utah »

Offline amh63

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4631
  • Karma: +795/-632
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13723 on: January 27, 2018, 12:29:10 pm »
Jonny Utah.....interesting points BUT some countering points.There is a general agreement in the football playing schools in the Nescac wrt to size limit of the squad, number of tips and general admission standards of players relative to the school’s admissions standards in general. 
Prior to the formation of the conference, Amherst played schools like The Coast Guard Academy, Springfield and even AIC.  A number of years ago, I had some time in Rochester and wandered about in it’s older main indoor Athletic Facilty.  I was struck by an old football in a case in the lobby of the building.  It was a football that had a winning score of a game between Amherst and Rochester.  I have been told by locals that Rochester was established when the then religious school was moved from Clinton NY....yes, the older Colgate college went westward  and later the present.Colgate was established with new money...tooth paste money? :)
Boy, the travel budget from Maine to Rochester and Hamilton would be huge :)
In any case, the other Maine schools are upgrading their sports facilities and even their coaching staff and maybe be as competitive in football as they now are in basketball, hockey,etc.

Offline Jonny Utah

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 7932
  • Karma: +1325/-496
    • View Profile
Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #13724 on: January 27, 2018, 12:41:59 pm »
Jonny Utah.....interesting points BUT some countering points.There is a general agreement in the football playing schools in the Nescac wrt to size limit of the squad, number of tips and general admission standards of players relative to the school’s admissions standards in general. 
Prior to the formation of the conference, Amherst played schools like The Coast Guard Academy, Springfield and even AIC.  A number of years ago, I had some time in Rochester and wandered about in it’s older main indoor Athletic Facilty.  I was struck by an old football in a case in the lobby of the building.  It was a football that had a winning score of a game between Amherst and Rochester.  I have been told by locals that Rochester was established when the then religious school was moved from Clinton NY....yes, the older Colgate college went westward  and later the present.Colgate was established with new money...tooth paste money? :)
Boy, the travel budget from Maine to Rochester and Hamilton would be huge :)
In any case, the other Maine schools are upgrading their sports facilities and even their coaching staff and maybe be as competitive in football as they now are in basketball, hockey,etc.

Yea it isn't going to happen I agree, but to go through some mental exercises:

The roster limit would be up to the schools in the long run. The admissions office is the first and last hurdle for the most part.  Isn't the roster limit in place to keep the larger schools (Trinity and maybe Tufts) and schools with high ncaa athlete/student ratio (Williams) in check? 

Bowdoin isn't going to need to worry about MIT's tip or admission issues, but a new "league" could certainly come up with some sort of easy compromise there.

The travel/budgets are also issues as well.