NESCAC

Started by LaPaz, September 11, 2011, 05:54:52 PM

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rudy

Quote from: PaulNewman on July 21, 2018, 11:24:59 AM
D4 Pace, I'm curious as to your opinion (as a former Academy player and experience with a top-tier D3 program) about the idea that U16 and U17 Academy teams would crush the top 15-20 D3 teams in the country.  Maybe it's just me but I find some of the romanticizing of the Academy experience (and level) a little over the top.

I'm also curious as to whether some of these posters just have incredible integrity in terms of "keeping it real" (a la the Chappelle segment) or are oblivious to what they blurt out.  If you hint that you are from some obscure area in the Midwest and are one of the top recruits in the nation drowning in attractive D1 offers with board scores in a certain range with a specific GPA, one might figure that even these shoddy NESCAC coaches might figure out who you are.  And I imagine the entire midfield of a NESCAC squad includes actual people with names, who might even be good friends with the wonderful defenders on said team.

Also curious as to all the lamenting and angst about the horrible level of play in D3, and all the opportunities to go D1 instead, and yet the decisions to focus on D3 anyway.  I know the usual responses about blowing out a knee and going abroad and go where you's still be happy if not playing soccer, but still....some of these alleged super-skilled intuitive studs might not find D1 so appealing and so friendly to "beautiful soccer"....they might not get to play... and there are plenty of places where I'm sure many kids who "choose" D3 would still be plenty happy if they blew out a knee or never got off the bench in D1.....like, for instance, my alma mater, Davidson (a D1 in D3 clothing), Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, the Ivies, etc, etc.  And if you could be a starter at Duke or UCLA or Cal or Stanford or UVA or UNC or Wake Forest, why wouldn't you go there?

Finally, re: the topic of a super-stud picking a NESCAC, I'm going to give a big vote to Colby....no school has had such a dramatic rise up the USNWR charts, and it is a beautiful campus, and a place where one could bask in the process of taking a program from the bottom all the way to the top.  Improvements already have been noted, and what a thrill to be a leader of a program who could knock off the usual NESCAC heavyweights and make some NCAA noise.  If not seduced by Williams or Amherst, not really needed at Tufts, and not the kind of kid who has a passion for the slightly more unique vibe of a Wesleyan, then I personally would be all over Colby.

I also question that 16/17 academy teams would crush say the D3  sweet 16 teams. This may be a shock but a lot of those rosters are full of academy players...and some don't start.  It's not like all academy players can play for the top 10 d1 schools.  Let's face it...in D3, D2 and D1 there's plenty of ugly soccer being played. But there are programs at every level that try to play good soccer and some are successful with regards to results.   There are many D1 transfers playing in D3 and it's not like the come in and dominate or are bored with how unchallenged they are. But style of play and team chemistry are important in the decision where to attend.

I would suggest this young man look at Brandeis if he is looking at Nescac. Last 2 final 4s..good academics.

d4_Pace

Hey Paul thanks for the shoutout.  I think the first thing to consider is the wide range of skill level at the academy level.  The MLS and a couple other clubs have really pulled away.  When I played academy we scrimmaged the defending JUCO national champions and beat them pretty easily at 18 years old.  So I think if we are talking a u18/19 MLS/top ten academy side they are certainly competing with and probably beating most d3 teams.  But if we are talking about u16 academies... Your run of the mill academy is getting destroyed by a top level d3 team.  Like it wouldn't even be close.  A u16 MLS academy, and when I say MLS I mean NY Red Bull/LA Galaxy/Atlanta United not the Columbus crew academy, would certainly have better technique and guys that will ultimate be better players.  But at 15 years old a lot of those guys would struggle to play against the 21 year olds playing for d3 sides.  So I guess to answer your question succinctly most u16/17 academies are not beating the elite d3 schools and certainly are not doing so easily.   

truenorth

mom1234 et. al., I think there have been some helpful comments posted in the wake of your initial inquiry.  Understandably your son is currently looking at his college search through his "soccer lens".  Not that teenage kids are seeking parents' advice, but it is important to try and gently emphasize that soccer--although important and hopefully fun--is only a part of an overall college experience that will include academics, school community, and a social life.  Not to mention the valuable network of friends and career connections that prevail upon graduating.

My older son played for Brown and had a good overall soccer and college experience, but his horizon during his four years of college didn't extend much beyond the soccer team and his roommates (all of whom were teammates).  For a D1 player, the program is year round and fairly all consuming.  He wouldn't trade the overall experience but realizes he missed out on some things at college.

My younger son, who received some D1 recruiting attention, ended up playing for Bowdoin and had a great soccer and overall college experience.  He had a number of friends outside of the team and studied abroad for a semester, something that would be more difficult to do in D1.

Per some earlier comments, beyond the soccer programs themselves, not all the NESCACs are identical with respect to culture and academics.  For example, I chauffeured my son on an interesting recruiting weekend to Wesleyan and Amherst.  We each had a blast on that trip, but those two schools couldn't be much different culturally.  He liked both of them but chose Bowdoin, which felt like a sweet spot for him more in the middle of the progressive/traditional cultural spectrum.

If I had a soccer player looking at NESCACs today, I would encourage him/her to think about the culture of the team and the coach's personality and style...even above the current performance level of the program.  The team culture and the coach's personality are going to have a greater bearing on whether the student athlete has a positive and rewarding athletic experience than simply the Ws and Ls. 

Best of luck to your son during this exciting time of college exploration.

mom1234

Quote from: d4_Pace on July 21, 2018, 03:52:56 PM
Hey Paul thanks for the shoutout.  I think the first thing to consider is the wide range of skill level at the academy level.  The MLS and a couple other clubs have really pulled away.  When I played academy we scrimmaged the defending JUCO national champions and beat them pretty easily at 18 years old.  So I think if we are talking a u18/19 MLS/top ten academy side they are certainly competing with and probably beating most d3 teams.  But if we are talking about u16 academies... Your run of the mill academy is getting destroyed by a top level d3 team.  Like it wouldn't even be close.  A u16 MLS academy, and when I say MLS I mean NY Red Bull/LA Galaxy/Atlanta United not the Columbus crew academy, would certainly have better technique and guys that will ultimate be better players.  But at 15 years old a lot of those guys would struggle to play against the 21 year olds playing for d3 sides.  So I guess to answer your question succinctly most u16/17 academies are not beating the elite d3 schools and certainly are not doing so easily.
Son and I know first hand that all academies are definitely not created equal; there is a pretty big difference between our local MLS academy (where son would not make the cut or if he did, be at the bottom of the roster) and the club academies (where he did play before; they had a good butt-whooping every time they played against the MLS side, usually 1-5 or even more; I think they managed 2-3 once). In our particular city, MLS academy is full of real MLS-bound talent, the non-academy has a smattering of skilled players. He turned down the non-MLS academy this past year for the non-academy team from the same club, which ended up steamrolling its way to the finals of our USYS Regionals and missed Nationals by a goal, and can and does beat said academy team any day. So the top USYS club teams rival the middle- and low-range academies.

mom1234

Quote from: truenorth on July 23, 2018, 08:39:48 AM
mom1234 et. al., I think there have been some helpful comments posted in the wake of your initial inquiry.  Understandably your son is currently looking at his college search through his "soccer lens".  Not that teenage kids are seeking parents' advice, but it is important to try and gently emphasize that soccer--although important and hopefully fun--is only a part of an overall college experience that will include academics, school community, and a social life.  Not to mention the valuable network of friends and career connections that prevail upon graduating.

My older son played for Brown and had a good overall soccer and college experience, but his horizon during his four years of college didn't extend much beyond the soccer team and his roommates (all of whom were teammates).  For a D1 player, the program is year round and fairly all consuming.  He wouldn't trade the overall experience but realizes he missed out on some things at college.

My younger son, who received some D1 recruiting attention, ended up playing for Bowdoin and had a great soccer and overall college experience.  He had a number of friends outside of the team and studied abroad for a semester, something that would be more difficult to do in D1.

Per some earlier comments, beyond the soccer programs themselves, not all the NESCACs are identical with respect to culture and academics.  For example, I chauffeured my son on an interesting recruiting weekend to Wesleyan and Amherst.  We each had a blast on that trip, but those two schools couldn't be much different culturally.  He liked both of them but chose Bowdoin, which felt like a sweet spot for him more in the middle of the progressive/traditional cultural spectrum.

If I had a soccer player looking at NESCACs today, I would encourage him/her to think about the culture of the team and the coach's personality and style...even above the current performance level of the program.  The team culture and the coach's personality are going to have a greater bearing on whether the student athlete has a positive and rewarding athletic experience than simply the Ws and Ls. 

Best of luck to your son during this exciting time of college exploration.

As Mom who invested a lot in his training growing up, I probably get a little caught up in the performance level; it is son who from the start son has been most interested in coach personality, team culture, and a well-rounded college experience, hence the original impetus for seeking insight on this board. He's been able to get a sense of personality, but team culture is harder to read when its not season and there are maybe three actual players hanging around these clinics. On the recruiting timeline, when do these kids get a chance to get on campus and experience the team culture? If the coach wants you on the team, does he invite you to spend a weekend in the fall of senior year or something?

Your comments on the D1 experience are just the reminder I needed to hear. How much of a time commitment was Brown for your son as compared to the one who went to Bowdoin?

mom1234

Quote from: rudy on July 21, 2018, 01:40:45 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 21, 2018, 11:24:59 AM
D4 Pace, I'm curious as to your opinion (as a former Academy player and experience with a top-tier D3 program) about the idea that U16 and U17 Academy teams would crush the top 15-20 D3 teams in the country.  Maybe it's just me but I find some of the romanticizing of the Academy experience (and level) a little over the top.

I'm also curious as to whether some of these posters just have incredible integrity in terms of "keeping it real" (a la the Chappelle segment) or are oblivious to what they blurt out.  If you hint that you are from some obscure area in the Midwest and are one of the top recruits in the nation drowning in attractive D1 offers with board scores in a certain range with a specific GPA, one might figure that even these shoddy NESCAC coaches might figure out who you are.  And I imagine the entire midfield of a NESCAC squad includes actual people with names, who might even be good friends with the wonderful defenders on said team.

Also curious as to all the lamenting and angst about the horrible level of play in D3, and all the opportunities to go D1 instead, and yet the decisions to focus on D3 anyway.  I know the usual responses about blowing out a knee and going abroad and go where you's still be happy if not playing soccer, but still....some of these alleged super-skilled intuitive studs might not find D1 so appealing and so friendly to "beautiful soccer"....they might not get to play... and there are plenty of places where I'm sure many kids who "choose" D3 would still be plenty happy if they blew out a knee or never got off the bench in D1.....like, for instance, my alma mater, Davidson (a D1 in D3 clothing), Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, the Ivies, etc, etc.  And if you could be a starter at Duke or UCLA or Cal or Stanford or UVA or UNC or Wake Forest, why wouldn't you go there?

Finally, re: the topic of a super-stud picking a NESCAC, I'm going to give a big vote to Colby....no school has had such a dramatic rise up the USNWR charts, and it is a beautiful campus, and a place where one could bask in the process of taking a program from the bottom all the way to the top.  Improvements already have been noted, and what a thrill to be a leader of a program who could knock off the usual NESCAC heavyweights and make some NCAA noise.  If not seduced by Williams or Amherst, not really needed at Tufts, and not the kind of kid who has a passion for the slightly more unique vibe of a Wesleyan, then I personally would be all over Colby.

I also question that 16/17 academy teams would crush say the D3  sweet 16 teams. This may be a shock but a lot of those rosters are full of academy players...and some don't start.  It's not like all academy players can play for the top 10 d1 schools.  Let's face it...in D3, D2 and D1 there's plenty of ugly soccer being played. But there are programs at every level that try to play good soccer and some are successful with regards to results.   There are many D1 transfers playing in D3 and it's not like the come in and dominate or are bored with how unchallenged they are. But style of play and team chemistry are important in the decision where to attend.

I would suggest this young man look at Brandeis if he is looking at Nescac. Last 2 final 4s..good academics.

Yes, he has interest from Brandeis. Anyone know about their style and team culture? Honestly I've had a hang-up wondering if the overall culture of the school would be foreign for son; we're not Jewish, non-religious...

blooter442

Quote from: mom1234 on July 23, 2018, 09:35:05 AM
Yes, he has interest from Brandeis. Anyone know about their style and team culture?
They play an attacking, possession-based brand of soccer. Usually a 4-3-3 formation with equal emphasis of playing through the middle and utilizing the outside backs. They mostly keep the ball on the ground, but can go direct when necessary. Not as large as Bowdoin/Amherst/Tufts in terms of physical size but they do have some decent size and are aggressive and physical. They are a good team to watch if you're a "purist" but can win ugly when they have to.

The team has always seemed to be a good group of guys who know how to have fun but also know how to get down to work. I do not get the sense that there are any real egos in the team. They have had a kid from Team IMPACT (an organization which pairs children with disabilities with college sports teams) and that has seemingly been a fantastic experience for the team as a whole. Margolis is a class act and is an excellent tactician.


Quote from: mom1234 on July 23, 2018, 09:35:05 AM
Honestly I've had a hang-up wondering if the overall culture of the school would be foreign for son; we're not Jewish, non-religious...
As a Brandeis alum who is not Jewish or religious (and didn't play soccer), I can wholeheartedly say that those shouldn't be things you should worry about. The Jewish influence is present in terms of building names/etc., but you could go four years at Brandeis without really engaging with it if you wanted to. I personally found it interesting to learn about some of the traditions and culture, but it's not undesirably pervasive. Moreover, I don't believe the team has many (if any) members who are actively religious, so — while I certainly think you should look at the school's background as a large factor in your son's college choice — the "hang-up" you expressed is certainly not anything you'd notice within the program or the school.

mom1234

Quote from: PaulNewman on July 20, 2018, 04:13:45 PM
Decided to browse after a long absence.  Amazing how quickly social media and the internet can get you worked up.

We will know within the first couple of weeks of season where this kid being recruited goes (in 2019?).  He will dominate the league from the start and I've penciled him in as a D3soccer First Team AA selection.  Bored at F&M?  A school that has made about 5 out of the last 6 Sweet 16s?  Hopkins, Haverford, Dickinson, Gettysburg, et al plus a Camden or Messiah and/or Montclair not good enough.  The Ivies mut be hanging all over this kid.  Kudos to him and the family for holding them off.

BTW, I'm not an Amherst apologist by any means.....but the shot at Serpone from the family of a high school rising senior is just ridiculous.  So, if Amherst is the only NESCAC that gives the kid a tip or admission, he's not going?  Because the national champs from 2 years ago don't play pretty enough soccer.  I can't believe all of these 16 and 17 year olds out there with their fine-grained assessments of how truly sharp D3 midfielders should be playing and where.  It's D3 soccer for heaven's sakes.
This is very entertaining! We haven't been beating off any ivies, perhaps because he never reached out to any of them, but for those who may have watched his team at some tournament or other, they didn't exactly come beating down his door or anything. He got some clinic invitation emails, but no calls. The coach feedback he has gotten is real, but since I am not there at these clinics, I have to assume there is also a bit of cocky male bluster also mixed in... but don't erase him from the First Team selection just yet. :)

About Amherst: It's not that he wants "pretty" soccer. He wants the dang ball. He wants to control and distribute. If Serpone is bypassing the midfield, then son is not playing the key role he wants to play. I actually wouldn't be surprised of Serpone wasn't even interested in him because he doesn't really fit his agenda, so I doubt he will even get a tip from him.

In fact, this whole school search could be summarized this way: on which team am I going to get the ball?

mom1234

Quote from: SoccerMom_5 on July 20, 2018, 11:47:52 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on July 19, 2018, 09:34:24 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 06:02:43 PM
Yes, I meant Serpone! Just got the names mixed up. He coached the recruits exactly as we had heard he coaches his team.

One of my kids thought the same thing.  He had really been leaning towards Amherst academically, but also wanted to play soccer while he was in college.  Ended up not choosing Amherst, and that was one reason. (Also, he didn't think the students at Amherst were as friendly as at the other schools he was considering.)


Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
- Weircinski: has been as good on the recruiting side as Murphy. Son has been impressed with his communication. He is at his camp now, and all son has said so far is that the recruits there are no good, but then again by his telling, there have only been a handful of good players in all these clinics combined. In a previous post, someone said Bowdoin "doesn't play pretty." Can someone elaborate on that?
They have been known to sit pretty deep and play direct, although I think it's as much of a function of the players they've had as Wiercinski's philosophy. Then again, maybe that has to do with the "profile" of a typical Bowdoin recruit; Bowdoin has had pretty decent team size but not a ton of trickery or team speed. Then again, with 3 NCAA appearances in 4 years, you can't say it hasn't worked, although they failed to advance past the first weekend of the tournament in that time.

My opinion vis-a-vis Bowdoin isn't always appreciated here, but I understand your position as a Mom, and have watched Bowdoin closely,  so I will mention: Wiercinski seems to stack his talent in the back and so the team tends to sit deep. And their midfield was disastrous this past year, so they often had to play more directly than they had played the year before.
Sounds like your son is a decent  midfielder. Bowdoin needed someone in midfield who  could connect this year.
Bowdoin had 5 All-Conference Players this year which was more than any other NESCAC team had (as well as a couple (2? 3?) All-Region, and one All-American) They were just missing the connecting piece in the middle; their backline mostly had to circumvent the midfield to get the ball forward. So...  Your son might be able to step right in as a First Year.  (Except... Bowdoin lost almost their entire starting defense...)

Hm, interesting. The wrap-up from Bowdoin was this: Although son is a holding mid, Weircinski wants him more for attacking mid or some of both, I think, but not exclusively holding mid. Son said coach cited a reason of putting "taller" guys at defensive mid, which is odd since son is 5'11". There are only two midfielders over that height currently on the team, and they are both graduating. But son is definitely lean and a more technical than physical player. So I don't know that it's exactly "talent" coach is putting at the back, but brawn. We're not sure if this guy values a more brawny style of play, or like you said, maybe he just has had to work with what he's got, and didn't have good midfielders.

Quote from: mom1234 on July 19, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
So far, son hasn't walked away from a clinic thinking, that's the one. He experienced first-hand that the F&M coaches are the "class act" one poster said they were, and if picking a school were only about coaches, he would go with them. I just worry about him playing in that league and getting bored. It's not a good sign that he's a dramatically better player than all this year's incoming freshmen (coach's words). It was his decision forgo D1, but I do think he should try to get a better fit in D3. Where that is, I don't know. Your opinion is appreciated!

As a previous poster said, find the best fit school-wise (and community-wise) and don't solely let soccer drive the decision.

This!!!

If your kids play Academy or a high-level club soccer, you are not going to find the soccer you are looking for in D3.  The NESCAC is as close as it gets, but a quality u16 or 17 Academy team could beat any of these teams without working very hard at all.  There will be quality kids on each team, but they get spread to thin because there aren't enough of them.   And the coaches don't always seem to recognize what they've got, for various reasons, I suppose. 

Assuming he can get in to all of them, I would suggest that your son should pick the school he likes best.  With the exception of my oldest son eliminating Amherst, and the others not even applying there, as a result...  We discussed the schools from the point of view of: if you blew out your knee in the first week of first preseason, and could never play soccer again, which school would you want to spend the next four years at.  They each chose that way; they each played soccer at their chosen school; they each had frustrations at times, with style and level of play, with coaching issues, and other things... But in the end, they have loved the schools they have chosen and they have really enjoyed being part of their teams. 

I know it is hard to convince a kid of this at the end of junior year, but it has been my experience that ... As they get closer to the end and it comes down to the wire on final choices, they begin to show more wisdom, and are more amenable to considering making a pragmatic choice.

Good luck.  I know the stress you are going through.  I have been through it,  also! :(
In my experience, it all works out okay, and better than you can even imagine when looking at it the summer after 11th grade.  But also in my experience, nothing anyone says makes it feel any better at that point in time.

Best of luck to your student in his college search.  And I hope that you can enjoy watching his u18 year!
[/quote]

mom1234

Quote from: PaulNewman on July 21, 2018, 11:24:59 AM
D4 Pace, I'm curious as to your opinion (as a former Academy player and experience with a top-tier D3 program) about the idea that U16 and U17 Academy teams would crush the top 15-20 D3 teams in the country.  Maybe it's just me but I find some of the romanticizing of the Academy experience (and level) a little over the top.

I'm also curious as to whether some of these posters just have incredible integrity in terms of "keeping it real" (a la the Chappelle segment) or are oblivious to what they blurt out.  If you hint that you are from some obscure area in the Midwest and are one of the top recruits in the nation drowning in attractive D1 offers with board scores in a certain range with a specific GPA, one might figure that even these shoddy NESCAC coaches might figure out who you are.  And I imagine the entire midfield of a NESCAC squad includes actual people with names, who might even be good friends with the wonderful defenders on said team.

Also curious as to all the lamenting and angst about the horrible level of play in D3, and all the opportunities to go D1 instead, and yet the decisions to focus on D3 anyway.  I know the usual responses about blowing out a knee and going abroad and go where you's still be happy if not playing soccer, but still....some of these alleged super-skilled intuitive studs might not find D1 so appealing and so friendly to "beautiful soccer"....they might not get to play... and there are plenty of places where I'm sure many kids who "choose" D3 would still be plenty happy if they blew out a knee or never got off the bench in D1.....like, for instance, my alma mater, Davidson (a D1 in D3 clothing), Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, the Ivies, etc, etc.  And if you could be a starter at Duke or UCLA or Cal or Stanford or UVA or UNC or Wake Forest, why wouldn't you go there?

So he can play for the love of it and be a bigger fish in a little pond. He'd probably sit on the bench at Wake Forest. He knows he's not "super stud." I offered to send him to Holy Cross or similar to at least find out where he stood with that lot, but he said no.

Finally, re: the topic of a super-stud picking a NESCAC, I'm going to give a big vote to Colby....no school has had such a dramatic rise up the USNWR charts, and it is a beautiful campus, and a place where one could bask in the process of taking a program from the bottom all the way to the top.  Improvements already have been noted, and what a thrill to be a leader of a program who could knock off the usual NESCAC heavyweights and make some NCAA noise.  If not seduced by Williams or Amherst, not really needed at Tufts, and not the kind of kid who has a passion for the slightly more unique vibe of a Wesleyan, then I personally would be all over Colby.
Colby has been the big mystery this year, and the one nescac that has dissed him completely. Timeline: Son reached out in the fall, they watched him play a tournament, they expressed a lot of interest, kept up communication here and there. Then son told Stanton he wasn't sure if his ACTs would be good enough, at which point response was, don't give up quite yet. Then when he got the decent score, he reached out. Radio silence. Reached out again: hey, are you still there? More silence. So he gave up. So we don't know if they saw him play again and changed their minds, or Stanton is a flake, or what. But I think it is very odd that they do not have an ID clinic series posted on their website? They have never sent out clinic-related correspondence of any kind, ever. What is up with that??

d4_Pace

So based on your comment regarding your son's team it sounds like the NESCAC is the perfect level.  I know throughout the conference their are kid that played all across the spectrum of academy, with some starting on legit top ten academies, but more at the mid tier and lower academies, as well as plenty of kids from top club teams like your sons. In terms of meeting players, I know Tufts always has like 7 or 8 current guys at the clinic so he will definitely have the opportunity to talk with them.  I took official visits to the final schools I was deciding between my senior fall and that is what pushed me to Tufts. I would definitely encourage you to reach out to coaches once you make your final list of schools about taking a visit.  That is the best way to really see what it would be like to play at that school and also what the school itself is like.  You usually follow guys around to a couple classes, eat in the dining hall, sleep in the dorms...etc. 

rudy

Quote from: mom1234 on July 23, 2018, 09:35:05 AM
Quote from: rudy on July 21, 2018, 01:40:45 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 21, 2018, 11:24:59 AM
D4 Pace, I'm curious as to your opinion (as a former Academy player and experience with a top-tier D3 program) about the idea that U16 and U17 Academy teams would crush the top 15-20 D3 teams in the country.  Maybe it's just me but I find some of the romanticizing of the Academy experience (and level) a little over the top.

I'm also curious as to whether some of these posters just have incredible integrity in terms of "keeping it real" (a la the Chappelle segment) or are oblivious to what they blurt out.  If you hint that you are from some obscure area in the Midwest and are one of the top recruits in the nation drowning in attractive D1 offers with board scores in a certain range with a specific GPA, one might figure that even these shoddy NESCAC coaches might figure out who you are.  And I imagine the entire midfield of a NESCAC squad includes actual people with names, who might even be good friends with the wonderful defenders on said team.

Also curious as to all the lamenting and angst about the horrible level of play in D3, and all the opportunities to go D1 instead, and yet the decisions to focus on D3 anyway.  I know the usual responses about blowing out a knee and going abroad and go where you's still be happy if not playing soccer, but still....some of these alleged super-skilled intuitive studs might not find D1 so appealing and so friendly to "beautiful soccer"....they might not get to play... and there are plenty of places where I'm sure many kids who "choose" D3 would still be plenty happy if they blew out a knee or never got off the bench in D1.....like, for instance, my alma mater, Davidson (a D1 in D3 clothing), Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, the Ivies, etc, etc.  And if you could be a starter at Duke or UCLA or Cal or Stanford or UVA or UNC or Wake Forest, why wouldn't you go there?

Finally, re: the topic of a super-stud picking a NESCAC, I'm going to give a big vote to Colby....no school has had such a dramatic rise up the USNWR charts, and it is a beautiful campus, and a place where one could bask in the process of taking a program from the bottom all the way to the top.  Improvements already have been noted, and what a thrill to be a leader of a program who could knock off the usual NESCAC heavyweights and make some NCAA noise.  If not seduced by Williams or Amherst, not really needed at Tufts, and not the kind of kid who has a passion for the slightly more unique vibe of a Wesleyan, then I personally would be all over Colby.

I also question that 16/17 academy teams would crush say the D3  sweet 16 teams. This may be a shock but a lot of those rosters are full of academy players...and some don't start.  It's not like all academy players can play for the top 10 d1 schools.  Let's face it...in D3, D2 and D1 there's plenty of ugly soccer being played. But there are programs at every level that try to play good soccer and some are successful with regards to results.   There are many D1 transfers playing in D3 and it's not like the come in and dominate or are bored with how unchallenged they are. But style of play and team chemistry are important in the decision where to attend.

I would suggest this young man look at Brandeis if he is looking at Nescac. Last 2 final 4s..good academics.

Yes, he has interest from Brandeis. Anyone know about their style and team culture? Honestly I've had a hang-up wondering if the overall culture of the school would be foreign for son; we're not Jewish, non-religious...

You can watch their NCAA semi final game against Messiah this past year online to get a sense of their playing style against another top D3 program . Just search for Messiah versus Brandeis and link should be top few results

NESCAC11

Quote from: mom1234 on July 23, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
Quote from: truenorth on July 23, 2018, 08:39:48 AM
mom1234 et. al., I think there have been some helpful comments posted in the wake of your initial inquiry.  Understandably your son is currently looking at his college search through his "soccer lens".  Not that teenage kids are seeking parents' advice, but it is important to try and gently emphasize that soccer--although important and hopefully fun--is only a part of an overall college experience that will include academics, school community, and a social life.  Not to mention the valuable network of friends and career connections that prevail upon graduating.

My older son played for Brown and had a good overall soccer and college experience, but his horizon during his four years of college didn't extend much beyond the soccer team and his roommates (all of whom were teammates).  For a D1 player, the program is year round and fairly all consuming.  He wouldn't trade the overall experience but realizes he missed out on some things at college.

My younger son, who received some D1 recruiting attention, ended up playing for Bowdoin and had a great soccer and overall college experience.  He had a number of friends outside of the team and studied abroad for a semester, something that would be more difficult to do in D1.

Per some earlier comments, beyond the soccer programs themselves, not all the NESCACs are identical with respect to culture and academics.  For example, I chauffeured my son on an interesting recruiting weekend to Wesleyan and Amherst.  We each had a blast on that trip, but those two schools couldn't be much different culturally.  He liked both of them but chose Bowdoin, which felt like a sweet spot for him more in the middle of the progressive/traditional cultural spectrum.

If I had a soccer player looking at NESCACs today, I would encourage him/her to think about the culture of the team and the coach's personality and style...even above the current performance level of the program.  The team culture and the coach's personality are going to have a greater bearing on whether the student athlete has a positive and rewarding athletic experience than simply the Ws and Ls. 

Best of luck to your son during this exciting time of college exploration.

As Mom who invested a lot in his training growing up, I probably get a little caught up in the performance level; it is son who from the start son has been most interested in coach personality, team culture, and a well-rounded college experience, hence the original impetus for seeking insight on this board. He's been able to get a sense of personality, but team culture is harder to read when its not season and there are maybe three actual players hanging around these clinics. On the recruiting timeline, when do these kids get a chance to get on campus and experience the team culture? If the coach wants you on the team, does he invite you to spend a weekend in the fall of senior year or something?

Your comments on the D1 experience are just the reminder I needed to hear. How much of a time commitment was Brown for your son as compared to the one who went to Bowdoin?

I think it's important to break out of the "strictly soccer" mindset if you're looking at D3 and especially NESCAC schools. I love soccer, loved my son's soccer career in the NESCAC and really appreciate this Board's devotion to it, but soccer season in D3 is over in the blink of an eye. Your son played 10x more soccer (matches, tournaments etc) last season than he will in a D3 school year. He will live among and spend lots of time with his teammates, but the soccer is a relatively small part of the experience. And at a NESCAC school (and many other D3 schools) he will be pounded with schoolwork that does not let up for soccer season and requires a full commitment. The weather gets cold quickly and he will realize in no time that there is much more to his college experience than soccer. He should focus on all aspects of the school. He should do it soon since most of these D3 schools are filling their shopping lists with verbal commitments by early in August.

mom1234

Quote from: NESCAC11 on July 23, 2018, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: mom1234 on July 23, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
Quote from: truenorth on July 23, 2018, 08:39:48 AM
mom1234 et. al., I think there have been some helpful comments posted in the wake of your initial inquiry.  Understandably your son is currently looking at his college search through his "soccer lens".  Not that teenage kids are seeking parents' advice, but it is important to try and gently emphasize that soccer--although important and hopefully fun--is only a part of an overall college experience that will include academics, school community, and a social life.  Not to mention the valuable network of friends and career connections that prevail upon graduating.

My older son played for Brown and had a good overall soccer and college experience, but his horizon during his four years of college didn't extend much beyond the soccer team and his roommates (all of whom were teammates).  For a D1 player, the program is year round and fairly all consuming.  He wouldn't trade the overall experience but realizes he missed out on some things at college.

My younger son, who received some D1 recruiting attention, ended up playing for Bowdoin and had a great soccer and overall college experience.  He had a number of friends outside of the team and studied abroad for a semester, something that would be more difficult to do in D1.

Per some earlier comments, beyond the soccer programs themselves, not all the NESCACs are identical with respect to culture and academics.  For example, I chauffeured my son on an interesting recruiting weekend to Wesleyan and Amherst.  We each had a blast on that trip, but those two schools couldn't be much different culturally.  He liked both of them but chose Bowdoin, which felt like a sweet spot for him more in the middle of the progressive/traditional cultural spectrum.

If I had a soccer player looking at NESCACs today, I would encourage him/her to think about the culture of the team and the coach's personality and style...even above the current performance level of the program.  The team culture and the coach's personality are going to have a greater bearing on whether the student athlete has a positive and rewarding athletic experience than simply the Ws and Ls. 

Best of luck to your son during this exciting time of college exploration.

As Mom who invested a lot in his training growing up, I probably get a little caught up in the performance level; it is son who from the start son has been most interested in coach personality, team culture, and a well-rounded college experience, hence the original impetus for seeking insight on this board. He's been able to get a sense of personality, but team culture is harder to read when its not season and there are maybe three actual players hanging around these clinics. On the recruiting timeline, when do these kids get a chance to get on campus and experience the team culture? If the coach wants you on the team, does he invite you to spend a weekend in the fall of senior year or something?

Your comments on the D1 experience are just the reminder I needed to hear. How much of a time commitment was Brown for your son as compared to the one who went to Bowdoin?

I think it's important to break out of the "strictly soccer" mindset if you're looking at D3 and especially NESCAC schools. I love soccer, loved my son's soccer career in the NESCAC and really appreciate this Board's devotion to it, but soccer season in D3 is over in the blink of an eye. Your son played 10x more soccer (matches, tournaments etc) last season than he will in a D3 school year. He will live among and spend lots of time with his teammates, but the soccer is a relatively small part of the experience. And at a NESCAC school (and many other D3 schools) he will be pounded with schoolwork that does not let up for soccer season and requires a full commitment. The weather gets cold quickly and he will realize in no time that there is much more to his college experience than soccer. He should focus on all aspects of the school. He should do it soon since most of these D3 schools are filling their shopping lists with verbal commitments by early in August.
[/quote
Yes! Good thoughts.

truenorth

Per your earlier question regarding the soccer time commitment at Brown vs. Bowdoin...  At Brown and the other Ivies the team trains year around to varying degrees.  They are on the field during pre-season in August, during the fall season and in the spring.  They kick the ball around indoors during the winter and are strength training throughout the year.  My son was "encouraged" by the coach to spend a couple of summers in Providence, find a part-time job, and train with several of his teammates who were also there for the summer.

At Bowdoin and the other NESCACs, they have only one week of pre-season training and then they are into the competitive season for the fall.  Any training during the winter and spring is voluntary and "captain led", meaning no official coaching.  My recollection is that NESCAC soccer players are generally fairly self motivated, so many of them kick the ball around with teammates during the off season and keep themselves fairly fit year around.  My son "studied" in Rome during the spring semester of his junior year at Bowdoin (I put "studied" in quotes because I think most of the learning occurred outside of the classroom).  He became friends with a soccer player from Williams and they trained unofficially with a low level Italian club in Rome.

At the end of the day, I think very few NESCAC soccer players look back on their college years and think "I wish I had played D1 instead".  The same is true I am sure of Brandeis (Blooter's alma mater) and the other UAA schools.