Author Topic: Regional Rankings and SOS  (Read 20097 times)

Offline DIIISuperfan

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Regional Rankings and SOS
« on: February 20, 2013, 02:38:43 pm »
Why isn't Hilbert getting any love? 20-5 on the year and AMCC Regular season champs and not a mention in any rankings? Yeah the SOS is low but 20 wins is 20 wins...

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 02:53:31 pm »
Why isn't Hilbert getting any love? 20-5 on the year and AMCC Regular season champs and not a mention in any rankings? Yeah the SOS is low but 20 wins is 20 wins...

Number of wins isn't one of the selection criteria. If you look at the NCAA data sheet for the East you'll see why:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2013/02/20/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-3-2013/

.450 is not just "low" but very low, 51 points lower than anyone ranked in the East.
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Offline Bengalsrule

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 10:17:09 am »
Why isn't Hilbert getting any love? 20-5 on the year and AMCC Regular season champs and not a mention in any rankings? Yeah the SOS is low but 20 wins is 20 wins...

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Offline DIIISuperfan

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 01:37:50 pm »
Thanks, Pat for the welcome and the clarification of the SOS, but I still feel that a team should get some credit for the body of work that they have presented.  Hilbert beat LaRoche at LaRoche ( I think a quality win), they beat Penn-State Behrend, also a quality win and they beat Keystone at Keystone who has wins against then #9 Scranton on the road and Cabrini.  That should indicate that the "Hawks" are playing some quality basketball. I know wins is a small criteria in the calculation, but I don't think the SOS is the equivalent of the difference of 6 less victories.  I know it is a classic debate.  Maybe Hilbert will make the NCAA's and then they will have to be recognized...

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 03:35:04 pm »
Well, that definition of quality win is pretty loose. I mean, Behrend has had some good teams but this year they are 18-8 and you left out the fact that they played twice, one of which Hilbert lost. Behrend is not regionally ranked.

Yes, they beat Keystone, but Keystone is 18-9. Beating Keystone isn't particularly unique either. La Roche is 16-9.

Hilbert can't help its conference schedule but Fredonia and Alfred have each had one winning season in four years now, Cazenovia and Keuka are in the NEAC, which was bad when Hilbert was in the league but is even worse now that the best teams have left for other conferences. Elmira hasn't even won as many as seven games in years. I get that Hilbert is kind of distant from other schools but

I know wins is a small criteria in the calculation, but I don't think the SOS is the equivalent of the difference of 6 less victories.

Nobody in the East regional rankings has six fewer victories than Hilbert. Not sure what you're trying to say with that.
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Offline DIIISuperfan

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 06:41:13 pm »
My bad Pat, I was looking at the second ranking with Ithaca at 14 wins...sorry...

Offline dcahill44

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 12:05:51 pm »
I really think Plattsburgh has Developed a good resume for a NCAA bid if they dont win their conference tournament. they have 2 kinda bad losses to New Paltz and Buffalo State but have beat Oswego twice, Geneseo, Cortland. i dont know much about how the NCAA picks there At Large teams though.. Hobart i think definetly has a shot also at an At Large if they were to lose to RPI tommorow. but would burst some other bubbles.

Offline dcahill44

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 01:20:06 pm »
We need to get this topic back going!!! Regional Rankings are important, and would be good to talk about.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2015, 01:29:46 pm »
Well we won't see any rankings for several more weeks... :)
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Offline dcahill44

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2015, 02:06:22 pm »
We can still have some predictions until they do actually come out!

Offline magicman

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2015, 01:21:42 pm »
We need to get this topic back going!!! Regional Rankings are important, and would be good to talk about.
Well we won't see any rankings for several more weeks... :)
We can still have some predictions until they do actually come out!

Well, a lot can happen between now and then but I believe Plattsburgh State, St John Fisher, and Oswego State, will be at the top of the rankings, not necessarily in that order.
 
The UAA
NYU currently has a 9-3 record but I can easily see them with 3 or 4 more losses by the time the first set of rankings comes out. They haven't really beat anybody and 7 of those 9 wins have come against teams with a losing record. They may not even be in the rankings when they come out. Rochester is having a down year and will not be a factor in the rankings.

The Liberty League
Clarkson with a 9-2 record may be near the top depending on what they do in the Liberty League over the next few weeks. Their strength of schedule is very poor and that could hold them back. Massey has it at 343 out of 416 but they do have a couple of decent wins over Oswego and Hobart. They have a bad loss as well to Elmira.

Skidmore, I believe, is the best team in the Liberty League but they already have 5 losses. At least all their 5 losses have come against quality teams with winning records. They will be ranked ahead of teams with better overall records because of their solid SOS but they won't be ranked in the top 3 spots.

Everyone else on the Liberty League already has 5 or more losses. They won't even make the Regional Rankings unless they go on a heck of a winning streak and the schools above them falter badly.


The Empire 8
The Empire 8 is in the same boat as the Liberty League. St. John Fisher is 12-2 and if the rankings were released today they would probably be in first place. Yet 10 of their 12 wins have come against teams with losing records. Their SOS is also very poor, currently 309 out of 416. Their 2 losses have come against Geneseo and Medaille both teams with winning records. Fisher could run the table and finish at 23-2 and their SOS would actually get worse than it is now.

No one else in the Empire 8 is in good shape to be regionally ranked. Alfred has a 9-4 record and Hartwick is 8-5. Everybody else has at least 7 losses already.


 The SUNYAC
Oswego and Plattsburgh both have 8-3 records and will battle this weekend for the top spot in the YAC. Oswego could easily be 10-1 as they have 2 losses where they clearly didn't play well. Of the top 6 teams n the conference standings, Plattsburgh has played the strongest schedule and none of their 3 losses were bad losses. Cortland has an 8-2 record but has faltered after an 8-0 start and I don't think they will end up as one of the top 3 teams in the SUNYAC. Geneseo hasn't been as good as advertised and their 6-4 record includes at least 2 games and possibly 3 that they should have won. I still expect them to challenge for the top spot in the YAC.

NEAC
The Lancaster Bible Chargers leads this conference with a 9-1 record. Rarely does the top team in this conference make the regional rankings because of the SOS. Lancaster has yet to beat a D3 team with a winning record and the only D3 team they played that had a winning record was Messiah (9-5) and they beat the Chargers by 26 points. No one from the NEAC will be ranked this year.

Last year there were 2 pool C bids awarded to the East Region. Both of those went to SUNYAC teams...Plattsburgh and Geneseo. Along with the automatic bid that Brockport earned it marked the first time in recent memory that the YAC got 3 teams into the Tournament.

This year the East Region may not get two at large bids. They may not get any. As it stands right now I think the SUNYAC might get 2 bids with the other conferences only getting the automatic bid. There seems to be more parity in the SUNYAC this year, than last year when there were 3 very good teams, and then a substantial drop off to the next group. This year anyone of the top 8 teams can probably beat anybody. I don't see the YAC getting 3 teams in this year.

This is all predicated on the top team in the regular season winning the conference tournament of course. However, if St John Fisher, for example, runs the table to finish 23-2 and loses in the E8 tournament then they will probably get a pool C bid. Likewise, if one of the SUNYAC teams has a very good finish, wins the regular season and loses in the league tournament, they will probably get a pool C bid. Clarkson could also state a case for that occurrence to take place. But if all 3 regular season champions get upset in their league tournaments, I think one of those regular season champs will be sitting out this year's Big Dance.       

Offline with age came?

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2015, 11:34:45 pm »
Be interested to see what 2 serious contributors like dcahill and Magicman say for the East rankings.  I'll throw out my "unsophisticated" top five: 1) Plattsburgh 2) Skidmore 3) Oswego 4) Clarkson 5) NYU  - now let's hear from the experts?? ;D

Offline with age came?

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 11:37:56 pm »
Suppose I should have put St John Fisher in there - but I never liked those guys .... ;) but seriously put them at Number 2 because I never liked those guys.... ;D

Offline dcahill44

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2015, 10:18:35 am »
I think without any details right now i would have 1. Plattsburgh State, 2. St John Fisher, 3. Oswego State, 4. Cortland State, 5. Skidmore, 6. Clarkson, or NYU. Those are the for sure top 7 right now i would say. NYU has a chance to climb into this ranking if they beat some of the good UAA teams. NYU has been known to be in the mix and then lose a bunch of games and be out of the ranking. Still a couple weeks away but good to look at stuff right now.   

Offline magicman

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Re: Regional Rankings and SOS
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2015, 12:33:54 pm »
Hey dcahill,

Where did your post go that was touting Hartwick, Union and several other teams? No fair deleting a post about teams that have fared poorly since your last post, which suggested they should make the regional rankings. ;D