FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:09 AM

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PolarCat

Thanks, Pat.  Had my sports mixed up.  Hobart is Division I for Men's Lacrosse, DIII elsewhere, except for sailing

lumbercat

PC

Enjoy your posts relative to your direct observations of the Bates and Bowdoin athletic cultures, very enlightening. There is no better indicator of a Nescac athletic environment than the firsthand experiences of student athletes and their families.

The Colby roster is not complete. I agree its puzzling, looks like they just put something temporary up without review.  Wonder if the SID checked it before or after posting it. It shows one FY and some other returning players who evidently have not been assigned numbers. Its  been that way for a couple of weeks from what I can see.....assume they will correct it soon.

Colby is the only NESCAC team that posts a Football roster consisting of Name, Number, Graduating year and hometown........no mention of position, height and weight like every other football roster in the NCAA.

polbear73

It's been my experience that NESCAC preseason rosters are somewhat meaningless and some more than others.  No one is ever sure whether upperclassmen are going to play and which freshmen will actually make it to camp.  Bowdoin shows 63 returnees with no incoming freshman or transfers listed, and there is no way of knowing how many of those are going to actually play.  Most final rosters look very different than those of the preseason. 

Jonny Utah

#8628
Quote from: amh63 on August 26, 2015, 04:51:51 PM
This discussion about the sports at Northeastern......what years/time period did the events happen?
Cause....I have a Classmate that was the Prez at Notheastern.  He built up UMass-Boston first.....moved then to Northeastern.....left it in much better financial shape.  He may still be admin head of Mass state public colleges.  Married to the Prez of ECSU. 
Nice guy....but you can blame him...he is an "educational" politician...even as an undergraduate :).

I think it may have had to do more with the AD than the president, but ultimately, the president is the one who makes big decisions like this, especially when removing a sport like football.  But a friend of mine had a son who played at NU, and while they still had a football program, the AD (Roby, still there), came into a sports management class and talked about his job.  He came into the class and basically questioned why any college has football, as it loses money and makes no sense to support (to be fair to Roby, I am paraphrasing from a 4th person account at this point).  But I also heard this story 2-3 years before NU ended football.  Of course a few years later, the school tells the coaches after the last game that the program would be ending. 

Quote"Our athletic director is definitely a silent bomber," he said (junior fullback Lloyd Clarke). "He really just backstabbed a lot of people. There's a good way and a bad way of going about things. This was definitely done in a bad way. He sat down and lied to a lot of parents, a lot of freshmen. He consistently told people that they were guaranteed five years to play here. In reality, there wasn't. I feel that this decision was made a little while ago, they've been talking about this the last two years."

The behind the scene story is that Roby did nothing to support football, and by keeping a losing coach, he guaranteed failure and less support from fans and donors down the road.  His entire plan was to eliminate the sport, and instead of finding ways to keep it, he silently ignored the sport and waited for the right time to just cut ties with it entirely.

(disclaimer:  My father played football in the 1960s and is in the Hall of Fame there so I am biased, and get most of my info from other former players and coaches.  He was a member of the 1963 undefeated team which ultimately lost to East Carolina in the "Cement Bowl".  As many of you know, NU (Like many current d1 schools in NE) used to play many d3 schools before there were any divisions.  In 1963 NU beat Tufts, Bates, Springfield and Kings Point, and also beat current d1 programs New Hampshire and Rhode Island.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/sports/ncaafootball/24rhoden.html?_r=0

RetiredMule

Lumbercat and Polarcat,

Do not view that Colby roster as a final copy by any stretch.  Colby has ~20 incoming freshmen in class on 2019.  The four names you see at the top are walk-ons and transfers who have not been able to work with the team in any real capacity to this point.  So this is by no means a final list.  Colby's web team will get to it when they get to it sadly.

Rio Schmidt was a very talented back and punter who showed good promise.  But Rio was a very religious and family oriented kid from Texas who grew homesick.  He transferred back to his home state to be closer to his family and finish his college career in his home state.

Ciero is a mystery even on our front.  He was extremely talented on the field but struggled at Colby off it for one reason or another.  I do not know where he is currently at, but I do wish the best for him and hope that he can finish his college career somewhere in good standing with or without football.

PolarCat

Everyone loves a mystery, and Rio Schmidt fits the bill.  He is definitely on the Hobart 2015 Roster, where he's listed as a sophomore.  So if he transferred back to Texas because he was homesick, he didn't burn a year of eligibility there, and he got over his homesickness pretty quickly.

Hopefully he didn't go to Hobart thinking the weather in Geneva was more Texas-like than the weather in Waterville.  Hobart's a wonderful school in a beautiful setting, but those lake effect storms are brutal.

lumbercat

Retired Mule-
Agree the current roster obviously isn't final but funny that it includes one of their incoming FYs-LB Moyette believed to be one the Mules top incoming recruits.

The Colby Sports Info Dept has traditionally been shaky but no doubt they will correct this soon.

RetiredMule

Lumbercat-

I think shaky is a good word for it.  Shaky at best.  They have always had trouble with rosters and it makes it difficult with no heights and weights

hamgrand

My oldest son is back at Hamilton for last semester where they started school already and I think they do some conditioning testing today.  Unfortunately he has used all his eligibility so I will really miss watching him and the Continentals play.  Meanwhile my #2 son (age only) heads to Middlebury on 9/2.  Very excited for this season!  Being from CNY most of my life, many people do not know about or understand the NESCAC.  Can't tell you all the times my sons or I have had to explain why they have not left early for camp.  Some people have asked if it is real football.  Brings up the question I usually ponder around this time of year - How would the NESCAC teams perform against the Liberty League or Empire 8 teams?

Last night I went to see RPI scrimmage Hudson Valley CC.  My nephew is a freshman DB for RPI.  They have been practicing since 8/15.  I might be bias, but I was not overly impressed with the talent when compared to what I have seen in the NESCAC.  The QB play, skills play and punting was much less than impressive and I could not tell any difference in the size of the linemen.  RPI did have a pretty impressive freshman kicker (and their recently graduated kicker is in the NFL) and the most impressive thing was the 100+ players on each sideline!  But overall, I felt that the talent in the NESCAC was generally above what I saw on the field last night.

While a lot of players from CNY have not traditionally gone to the NESCAC, the ones that do are usually on the upper end of the talent pool coming out of CNY.  Usually All-State caliber players who are trying to go to IVY or Patriot league schools (and usually seriously considered) but just do not have the combo of size, speed and academics to get offered a spot.  Of course the best players from the area are getting some D1 scholarship and IVY or Patriot League offers.

This is not to say that the Liberty League and Empire 8 are not getting a lot of talented kids from CNY.  They certainly are getting many talented players from the area ... especially considering the biases from the area.  But my observations are that the NESCAC is a pretty talented league and teams would do very well if competing in these other leagues.  Biggest disadvantage of the NESCAC would be the 75 player roster limit.

What are the thoughts on this topic from anyone on this board?

polbear73

I strongly believe that your assessment regarding talent levels is correct based upon my experience, although dated, plus watching a fair amount of D3 football.  I think it is true that a lot of NESCAC football players get serious consideration from Ivy or Patriot programs but the prospect of more playing time, academic considerations, football emphasis, and the desire to play more than one sport sway them to the NESCAC. That's not to demean the Liberty League or other D3 conferences, but I do think that NESCAC has a broader pool of the student-athlete to draw from.  Actual games may be a different story, however, as the roster limitations, practice time, academic priorities, etc would put NESCAC at a disadvantage.   

amh63

Hamgrand.....welcome aboard!    Polbear'73's  comments are on the money.
My advice has two "flavors".  First, you can spend some time reading the back pages of post and gleem your info from them.   Second, suggest you sit back and enjoy the experience of the football played on the field and chat with other fans in the stands,  Comparing the level  of football with other conferences....especially to those unaware of what the CAC is about is often not fruitful, imo.   The best way is to invite them to watch a game with you....especially a Middlebury game.  The Panthers have great talent this season....especially at QB.  You and your friends can then be more informed about the level of play and the talent in the conference.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: polbear73 on August 29, 2015, 10:01:21 AM
I strongly believe that your assessment regarding talent levels is correct based upon my experience, although dated, plus watching a fair amount of D3 football.  I think it is true that a lot of NESCAC football players get serious consideration from Ivy or Patriot programs but the prospect of more playing time, academic considerations, football emphasis, and the desire to play more than one sport sway them to the NESCAC. That's not to demean the Liberty League or other D3 conferences, but I do think that NESCAC has a broader pool of the student-athlete to draw from.  Actual games may be a different story, however, as the roster limitations, practice time, academic priorities, etc would put NESCAC at a disadvantage.

I bolded this last part because it is huge. By the time you get to the beginning of your senior year, you've had six fewer games and in most cases nine fewer weeks of practice than most of Division III. That's a half-season's worth of experience and improvement that a NESCAC player misses out on.

However, we would agree that in general, NESCAC football on an eyeball level appears to be similar in nature to the SCIAC or Liberty League (great Hobart teams, possibly, aside). Last time Keith and I made an eyeball comparison of the two was back in 2008 or so, before Hobart made any of its quarterfinal runs.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

PolarCat

This is the ultimate hot stove league topic for discussion, and I agree with all the above posts.  I'll add that due to roster size, an injury to a key player can have a much bigger impact on a NESCAC program than in other conferences.

We will never know the "real" answer, since NESCAC prohibits post season play.  Many of us would like to see that changed.

Regarding talent levels, across a wide range of sports, the 'CAC has kids who passed on Division 1 offers, in favor of what they perceived to be a better educational experience, and/or the ability to play multiple sports.  (I am painfully aware of that, as my daughter is one of them).  This may or may not be the case in other D3 conferences.

Welcome to the forum!

fulbakdad

Hey Pat, what do you believe I think about this subject?  Lol.

I disagree with the above posts.  I compared players that played with my son and against my son in the NEPSAC league where a lot of NESCAC players come from.  I saw players with less talent in that league doing very well in NESCAC.

But there is not much objective comparison to go off of except player performance in HS.  Eyeball comparison is extremely difficult.  The only way is for head to head competition.  Which we all know won't happen....

Well not for some time. 

amh63

Little bit of info coming out of Amherst.....via the Twitter link on the football site.  Players...not Fys...plan to show up on Monday!  FYs show up on Tuesday for orientation.
Nice shots of the locker room with the equipment of players at their lockers....along with their names.  Picture of the new uniforms...Jerseys.. 3 designs.  None with stripes :'(
Interesting method to get the fans up for the season.  Series of pics.  To count the days down.  A veteran player pic is shown with his jersey number, accompanying with the name of the player.  The number illustrates the remaining days left before showing up on campus.
I have a daily chore..."sidewalk superintendent"  check up on the progress of the 4 new dorms being built..for 300 students. Being on the Amherst website, I also checkup on the athletic page.....for example, any changes in the coaches.
Has anyone else notice the large number of New coaches being hired around the conference?  Tufts and Trinity seems to be leading....all CAC sports.