East Decade Team (03-13)

Started by D3MAFAN, August 29, 2013, 01:10:53 AM

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Which program has had the most success over the last decade.

Hobart
3 (15%)
St. John Fisher
10 (50%)
Alfred
0 (0%)
Rowan
0 (0%)
RPI
1 (5%)
Ithaca
1 (5%)
Delaware Valley
2 (10%)
Cortland State
1 (5%)
Salisbury
1 (5%)
Curry
1 (5%)
Montclair State
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: September 05, 2013, 01:10:53 AM

lumbercat

Doesn't mean they can't compete with those on the list Johnny- Sure we don't have a direct comparison but go watch a Trinity game and then watch Curry and see what you think as an astute D3 observer.
Locally Everett is a fine High School program but I don't think they would beat Don Bosco of NJ-------oh but I forgot, they have never beaten or played Don Bosco so there's absolutely no way to form an opinion.
Amherst may belong on the list as well.

Jonny Utah

Well Everett does play a few MA Catholic Conference schools, who usually fare pretty poorly against NJ teams.  You and I probably both know this so we can base our opinions on this.  We also can see the talent coming out of these other High Schools and can see where players are going.

I'm half joking about my previous comments.  I usually catch about 1 or 2 Tufts games a year, and I haven't seen any other nescac games in a long time.  Trinity is a good team, but really only has a chance to lose 1 or 2 games a year, since the other 6 or 7 teams are simply not that good.  If they played in the E8, LL or MAC, I would see them being 6-4 during most years (If they filled their non-conference games with solid teams).

fisheralum91

lumbercat-we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Trinity has chosen to be in its league and only play those games.
So what you have run buckshot over it?
The fact is that you will NEVER know how good you are until you step outside the confines of your league.
Until then you cant be compared to NCAA playoff teams on any level.
Is Trinity good?  I have no idea....And neither does anybody else outside of that league.

Yanks 99

Because the NESCAC imposes it's own ban on playing teams from outside of the conference, they really shouldn't be in the final conversation/vote.

Maybe an honorable mention...but I agree with JU, as I have seen a few games at Hamilton against the best/better NESCAC teams over the past few years...and never saw a team from the NESCAC where I thought "that team is flat out scary...and would beat anyone in the E8, LL, MAC, or NJAC..hands down."
Hartwick College 2007 Empire 8 Champions

lumbercat

Fisher alum and Yanks99-
I see where you guys are coming from and respect your opinions.
I only want to make that the point that I feel strongly that in the last 10 years years Trinity would be most competitive with those on the list.
It's unfortunate that it can't be resolved on the field but that is whole different issue that may never change (much to the chagrin of most involved in NESCAC athletics)
I'm not sure from the sound of the posts how many times you have seen Trinity play in the last 10 years, if a all.  My thought is if you saw them in a game against one of the better NESCAC teams like Amherst or Middlebury I think you would agree that they belong on the list.




fisheralum91

Caught a Trinity game at Hamilton  few years back.
Honestly....No disrespect, but they didn't show me any superior talent than any of the E8.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: bman on August 29, 2013, 12:39:26 PM
I was just wondering what Rowan is doing in that list.. They haven't been relevant since Keeler left..

This isn't actually true. I was reminded as I was putting a breakout box together for our Passing the torch story in Kickoff that after Keeler left in 2001, Rowan made the semifinals in 2004 and 2005, including a respectable 19-7 loss to the Purple Raiders. The 2005 team would have nobody who played for Keeler. Then the quarters in 2006 and the bottom falls out in 2007.
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Jonny Utah

Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 29, 2013, 02:22:13 PM
Quote from: bman on August 29, 2013, 12:39:26 PM
I was just wondering what Rowan is doing in that list.. They haven't been relevant since Keeler left..

This isn't actually true. I was reminded as I was putting a breakout box together for our Passing the torch story in Kickoff that after Keeler left in 2001, Rowan made the semifinals in 2004 and 2005, including a respectable 19-7 loss to the Purple Raiders. The 2005 team would have nobody who played for Keeler. Then the quarters in 2006 and the bottom falls out in 2007.

I was thinking the same thing.  Rowan was probably the best team in the east for 2 or 3 of the last 10 years.

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: bman on August 29, 2013, 12:39:26 PM
I was just wondering what Rowan is doing in that list.. They haven't been relevant since Keeler left..
I vote to replace Rowan with Middlebury!

I think the list originally named teams from specific seasons, so it might have specifically been Rowan's 2004 or 2005 team that was named.  The poll has now changed to reflect success over a decade rather than naming the best single-season team.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

D3MAFAN

#24
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on August 29, 2013, 03:14:43 PM
Quote from: bman on August 29, 2013, 12:39:26 PM
I was just wondering what Rowan is doing in that list.. They haven't been relevant since Keeler left..
I vote to replace Rowan with Middlebury!

I think the list originally named teams from specific seasons, so it might have specifically been Rowan's 2004 or 2005 team that was named.  The poll has now changed to reflect success over a decade rather than naming the best single-season team.

EXTARTAN, you would be correct.

Now with all due respect to those whom felt that a NESCAC team should have been listed, I believe that both Trinity and Amherst are very respectable programs. However, using eye-test to judge them against the other programs wouldn't be fair. Though these teams do have great success within their conference, we have no way of comparing them against the others, it would be like throwing a random prep team in the discussion. I would have like to put them on the poll, but as I aforementioned, where do I compare, stats? Stats can be inflated. I have watch a few of the NESCAC games, but I prefere watching other conferences to see how they would do in terms of championship play. I think that Trinity and Amherst would hold their own, but to say that they would be the top dogs, is out of the question. Now, as far as looking as what program has dominated their perspective conference, then it would be a different story.

Upstate

I think DVC should be right up there in the discussion.

92-24 over the past decade.
3 undefeated regular seasons.
Ran the table in their conference 4 times.
Missed "Post Season" only once.
The views expressed in the above post do not represent the views of St. John Fisher College, their athletic department, their coaching staff or their players. I am an over zealous antagonist that does not have any current connection to the institution I attended.

dlippiel

Listen dlip has a ton of respect for the student athletes playing football in the NESCAC. To dlip the level of play in the league is decent. However with the decision the league has made to play in conference only removes any team from realistic comparison to the remainder of D3 when talking about the best teams in the region. Just dlip's opinion minus his typical pot shot at the NESCAC. When it comes to it dlip would love to see them play other ER teams. Yet he knows the end of the world will come before that happens.

gordonmann

Very interesting poll.  Good topic.

I cast my vote for St. John Fisher without any kind of quantified evidence.  But they've been the best team several years in the Empire 8, which is the East region's best conference.  Sa SJF has the distinction of playing Mount Union well, going to playoffs several times and winning in the NCAA postseason on the road.  Plus they have come closest among the East teams I've seen to building the size along the offensive line that you need to compete at the elite (i.e. Mount Union) level.

In no particular order, I'd say second is between...

* Rowan who was a monster in the early part of this decade.  Remember the Del Val team that beat SJF in super dramatic fashion in 2004?  They got obliterated by Rowan the following week.  The Rowan team that lost to Mount Union in 2005 was also really good, though limited offensively by an injured starting QB.  And last year's Rowan team was also good, though not at the same level.

* Salisbury who is tough to evaluate because they can really handle good teams easily.  But Salisbury was a South region team until two years ago.  If Salisbury is an East region team for this period, then Wesley arguably close to being one, too (essentially the same schedule from 2003-2010).  And if Wesley is an East region team, this poll isn't close.

* Delaware Valley, whom I have trouble evaluating objectively.  I'm a big Aggies guy and have loved covering them since 2004.  But they've never been the best team in the region, even in years where they were favored to be so (2005, 2010, 2011).

* Hobart, whom I haven't seen enough to evaluate thoughtfully.  My only in person view of them was the good team that lost at Del Val in 2005.  That certainly wasn't the best Hobart team of the bunch. I think the Liberty League is a notch below the Empire 8 and maybe the MAC and NJAC in depth, so winning that conference has less weight for me.  But I could be missing the 'bart, er boat, here.


And despite my ongoing loan payments to my alma mater, I don't know where Trinity should rank so nowhere is okay with me. :)


lumbercat

Fisher alum-

In that Trinity-Hamilton game you caught a "few years back" did you summize that Trinity could not compete in your conference?

Against Hamilton, Trinity typically leaves their starters in until about the 3rd quarter, ..... that's just not a valid look for you. Hamilton struggles in the NESCAC - too bad you couldn't have seen Trinity against the better competition in the NESCAC over the past 10 years.

At the end of the day you are basing everything on actual comparative scores and NCAA results which I understand but you can't assume victory in games never played.

I have coached and I have scouted. Very often you do not have the benefit of comparative scores or measured performance to evaluate a team or an individual athlete. Sometimes you stand on the field or in the the pressbox and you evaluate a team or a player based on your observations of their individual performance based on your direct observations.

It is possible to make a reasonable, accurate evaluation of the talent level of an individual athlete or a team by watching that team in a number of situations. Team speed, execution, size and toughness etc can be well evaluated by viewing that team only. Similarly, evaluation of individual athletes often takes place visually without benefit of their prior performance in competitve situations(film).

In other words, if a team or player is good you can make a reasonable evaluation of their talent level  without seeing them playing RPI or Utica or Ithaca.

I've seen Trinity, and I've seen you, they can play with you.

(No agenda here- no allegiance to Trinity- but respect their program they are good)

fulbakdad

Another gauge is where players come from and their success at where they go.  There are a number of players that I watched in High School who were not superstars and have been inserted into their NESCAC teams as freshman and sophmores.  And others who were superstars that have just started to become involved at the teams in the LL, E8 in their upper classman years......

I usually catch 1 or 2 NESCAC games for an hour or so every week because the team I watch is in a different time zone.  Been watching a couple boys who played with my son in Prep School or against him (and one is at Trinity, Budness).  From an eye test there is a difference......

NESCAC is hampered by their academic requirements.  But that should be a badge of honor.  But I also believe they would not be as competitive as you think......