The End of Cortaca

Started by Bombers798891, November 18, 2013, 05:09:38 PM

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sjfcards

Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 05:09:38 PM
Seriously, Cortland ruins everything. Thanks for nothing, drunk students

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/this_years_cortaca_game_might_have_been_the_last.html

"Bitterbaum said he had talked to the president of Ithaca College and both are considering the idea of canceling the game."

I should also mention that I went back to Ithaca for work on Monday and you would not even know the game had happened. It never gets out of hand in Ithaca the way it does in Cortland.
GO FISHER!!!

Jonny Utah

#16
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 08:05:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 05:09:38 PM
Seriously, Cortland ruins everything. Thanks for nothing, drunk students

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/this_years_cortaca_game_might_have_been_the_last.html

"Bitterbaum said he had talked to the president of Ithaca College and both are considering the idea of canceling the game."

I should also mention that I went back to Ithaca for work on Monday and you would not even know the game had happened. It never gets out of hand in Ithaca the way it does in Cortland.

The college mob mentality that happened in Cortland is kind of a social phenomenon that is very similar to what has happened in Boston in recent years when the pro sports teams here have won state championships.

There have been several deaths including a Northeastern student who was shot in the eye by the Boston police with a beanbag, another student run over by a driver, and another person who had a heart attack while resisting arrest.  After the Boston police and City were sued for some of these actions, the new line of defense was to totally prevent students/persons from congregating at all after the events.  Like Cortland, it isn't always students who get arrested, it are friends of students, or other rif-raf coming in from the burbs to cause havoc.   

And it wasn't just Boston which had issues.  Umass Amherst (about 2 hours from Boston) had huge problems with riots and disorderly conduct.


DanPadavona

#17
I have attended Cortaca almost every year since the late 1970s when I was a townie junior high school student growing up in Cortland. Out of high school I was accepted into Ithaca's Park School, and also Syracuse University. I chose the latter, which I regret to this day. Ironically had I accepted the Park School invitation, I would have likely been a Bombers fan. I never fit into S.U. and transferred back home to Cortland after 1 year, just in time to see the two most memorable Cortaca games I can remember - the 1988 battle for the Jug which Cortland won, and the playoff game which Ithaca won en route to the national championship.

Unfortunately the greatness of those two games started the wheels in motion for what Cortaca has since become. From 1989-on, it has been a party instead of a game. In 1988 Cortland fans stormed the field in celebration. I saw people legitimately crying, they were so happy. To think what this series has become, and how the students have absolutely ruined the atmosphere, saddens me more than I can hope to express.

I rarely return to my hometown these days. It's not just my having moved on, it's the social problems which are tearing the city apart and making it a dangerous place to live. Then there is the tenuous relationship between SUNY and the City, which has existed since I was a young child. As a graduate of SUNY and someone who grew up part of the Cortland community, I always feel caught in the crossfire. It's not a relationship I wish to be part of, so I visit neither.

When I drive through Cortland in early November, usually on my way to or from a Cortland NJAC game, storefronts are plastered with signs from greedy townie businesses encouraging students to "Get Your Cortaca Supplies Here". How anyone associated with these businesses can pretend they didn't exacerbate this fiasco is beyond reason. From the bars which open at 8 am in the name of Cortaca, to the townee liquor stores which have their best sales of the year, there is plenty of blame to go around in the City as well as at SUNY.

Maybe it is time for the series to end. It seems unthinkable to even consider it. I have had the opportunity to meet and speak with Coach Welch in the past, and Coach MacNeill on many occasions. I knew Coach Murray when he was in Cortland, and meeting Coach Butterfield was honestly one of my greatest thrills when I was covering Red Dragon football for the college radio station. All exuded Class. Both produce programs and student athletes which their respective schools can take pride in. When I take my son Joe to Cortaca, I proudly tell him of memories of past games and the players who have made it so memorable - Garreth Grayson, Jeff Wittman, Mike Scott, Adam Haas, Dan Pitcher, and on-and-on. When Wittman was receiving his honors at half-time, I was almost breathless talking about the things I saw him do on the field two decades ago. Now I can add John Babin to that list. To see their legacy in this rivalry come to an end is heartbreaking.

Ironically I mentioned to several people at Saturday's game how well-behaved the crowds were. I saw far fewer explicit t-shirts and signs than in years past. There were fewer chants in poor taste. The game was the story for the first time in several years. Perhaps because the riff-raff stayed in Cortland to prepare its assault on the community. If this societal element which ruins SUNY is allowed to destroy perhaps the greatest small college football rivalry in history, then what does it say about how our society solves its problems? Do we truly make lasting change, or do we produce sound bites and public proclamations which garner votes of confidence from the less educated majority?

Justin Bieber created 666 false D3 identities to give me negative karma.

mattvsmith

At first I assumed that the Cortaca brouhaha was just middle-aged administrators worried about insurance. Then I followed a link and I couldn't believe the decadence and open obscenity. We were pretty wacky-wacky back in the day, but I've never seen anything like those signs or public sex in a booth at a bar. I've seen some sick stuff, but this link was just dirty. If my son did that he'd learn how to pay his way through college, if I didn't kill him outright.

AUKaz00

I think a contributing factor was certainly the weather; you just don't get much nicer days in mid-November in upstate NY than we had on saterday.  That likely led to much of the partying extending outdoors, similar to what occurred at Hot Dog Day 2013 when we had pleasant weather for the first time in 3 or 4 years. 

If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority.  No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.
Check out the official card game of the AU Pep Band - Str8 Eight!

sjfcards

Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority.  No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.

I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.

I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.

I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?

I don't know...
GO FISHER!!!

Li'l Giant

I don't have a connection to either school, but I know what it's like to fear losing a beloved rivalry. When I was a student at Wabash (in the mid-late 90s) there were a couple of serious brawls that happened when Depauw fans tore down our goalposts after winning the Monon Bell in 96 and 98. I know there was a palpable dread that the game would cease being played after the 98 brawl. I don't know if it was ever seriously discussed by the schools but the idea of losing the game forced the schools and student bodies to figure out a way to make it work without brawls happening. Since then the rivalry has been drama free off the field.

As an outsider I can say Cortaca Jug is a rivalry game that a lot of us around the country keep an eye on and I would hate for the schools, fans, and alunni to lose it. I hope y'all can figure out a way to keep the game going and keep this from happening again.
"I believe in God and I believe I'm gonna go to Heaven, but if something goes wrong and I end up in Hell, I know it's gonna be me and a bunch of D3 officials."---Erik Raeburn

Quote from: sigma one on October 11, 2015, 10:46:46 AMI don't drink with the enemy, and I don't drink lattes at all, with anyone.

AUKaz00

Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority.  No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.

I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.

I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.

I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?

I don't know...

Alfred instituted a few new laws to address these concerns last year.  Peruse if you enjoy reading legal code:
Social Hosting
Noise
Check out the official card game of the AU Pep Band - Str8 Eight!

sjfcards

Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority.  No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.

I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.

I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.

I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?

I don't know...

Alfred instituted a few new laws to address these concerns last year.  Peruse if you enjoy reading legal code:
Social Hosting
Noise

Thanks Kaz! These are the case studies the school and town here in Cortland need to be looking to for guidance on how to approach the issues from last weekend. The city's common council voted 6-2 against ending the game, so it appears that the game will be played next year in Cortland as planned. There has been a committee of school and town officials to plan strategy around avoiding future policies, so we shall see.
GO FISHER!!!

Jonny Utah

Quote from: sjfcards on November 20, 2013, 11:55:51 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority.  No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.

I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.

I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.

I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?

I don't know...

Alfred instituted a few new laws to address these concerns last year.  Peruse if you enjoy reading legal code:
Social Hosting
Noise

Thanks Kaz! These are the case studies the school and town here in Cortland need to be looking to for guidance on how to approach the issues from last weekend. The city's common council voted 6-2 against ending the game, so it appears that the game will be played next year in Cortland as planned. There has been a committee of school and town officials to plan strategy around avoiding future policies, so we shall see.

Most American Cities and States already have ordinances like this on the books, and I assume Cortland does too.  There are also state laws which I assume prohibit underage drinking anywhere (private or public) if you are under the age of 21.

So enforcement and sanctions by the colleges are the main issues in my opinion, not the laws already on the books, but new laws might help:

- Limit the number of unrelated persons who can live in one dwelling.
- Students who violate noise ordinances face sanctions by the college
- Landlords/Owners face civil/criminal penalties for keeping disorderly houses
- Public drinking ordinances enforced early on Cortaca Days.
- Arrest first policies for disorderly offenses.
- Cameras and Videotaping students for future prosecutions/sanctions by colleges.
- Limit Bars hours on these days and enforce ID/Fire/capacity codes

hobart16

Having grown up in Cortland on Pleasant St. (off Clayton) and my Dad having been a prof and football coach for the Red Dragons I was sorry to see this happen.  My high school classmate Mike Catalano is chief of police in town.  The locals do get into the whole Cortaca scene, and in general people appreciate everything the college brings to the town (including the Jets summer camp).  A few of my Hobart buds who live in Cortland and Ithaca look forward to the game and enjoy the festivities.  Many Cortland businesses take advantage and the Board of Legislators voted down a resolution to ban the game after lobbying by local businesses to keep it going.  Bars have "breakfast and booze" specials and arrests were happening in the afternoon before the game was even over 20 miles away in Ithaca.  So moving the game won't have much impact.

Part of the problem is that Cortland's enrollment has grown and they haven't built on campus residences so there are neighborhoods that are basically student ghettos now.  Put together a few house parties 100 yards from the Dark Horse and you have a recipe for trouble on a gorgeous fall day. 

They will have to ban establishments selling beer before noon and get out on the street and prevent trouble before it starts.  Or conversely close off Main Street completely and keep them all some place where they will do less damage and can be controlled better.  They already call in reinforcements from other places and they may have to pony up for more police presence next year.  Shouldn't stop playing the game. 

Bombers798891

First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:

http://theithacan.org/35331

The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:

2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500

I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca

ExTartanPlayer

Did not realize until I read that article that Susan Bassett was now AD at Ithaca.  She was AD for the latter part of my tenure at CMU and left a very, very good impression on the athletes (football and others) that overlapped with me.  Not sure how long she has been there or if you've had any dealings with her but I'd vouch quite strongly for her.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

Jonny Utah

Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:

http://theithacan.org/35331

The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:

2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500

I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca

They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too.  Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up.  The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end.  I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.

Jonny Utah

Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:

http://theithacan.org/35331

The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:

2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500

I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca

And these figures also seem to lead to less problems in Ithaca:

QuoteMike Welch, Ithaca Bombers head coach, said SUNY Cortland should do more to prepare for situations like this.

"They have to anticipate it, like we have done in our previous games," he said. "The games here, there is not even a fraction of the problems we used to have 10 years ago."