D3boards.com

D3soccer.com => Men's soccer => Topic started by: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:05:01 PM

Title: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:05:01 PM
Somebody needed to start a thread on the tournament & bracketology, so here it is...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: bestfancle on November 06, 2017, 02:25:14 PM
I really don't think Calvin makes it out. Whatever team wins out of JCU and OWU will beat Calvin, IMO.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:41:41 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 06, 2017, 02:25:14 PM
I really don't think Calvin makes it out. Whatever team wins out of JCU and OWU will beat Calvin, IMO.

I think Calvin is as good as their W-L record suggests. I saw them vs Messiah in the tournament last fall. Yes, the Falcons could have put them away in the first half (they got one and almost two more, outshooting the Knights 13-1), but Calvin stormed back, dominated the second half and won in 2OT. Both goal scorers are back--and juniors, not seniors. They also return most of the other pieces from last year, including keeper Van Ryn and a great defender, Vegter, who is probably the best defender I've seen anywhere in the past two years.

Don't underestimate them simply b/c their conference is so weak. They are the real deal, Final Four quality. I doubt Chicago will beat them.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 06, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
Two 1st round games I'd most like to watch are:
Rowan/JHU
Dickinson/Emory
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.

Typically, if both the men's and women's teams are eligible to host, the men get the even years and the women get the odd (unless one team has a bye).  That usually goes for the second weekend as well.

I also agree that Messiah has the easier path, at least on paper.  Lycoming v Drew (should they make it) will be a tough test.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 03:04:06 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
Two 1st round games I'd most like to watch are:
Rowan/JHU
Dickinson/Emory

I'm looking forward to see the Drew/F&M game.  Haven't seen either team in person yet.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 06, 2017, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.

Typically, if both the men's and women's teams are eligible to host, the men get the even years and the women get the odd (unless one team has a bye).  That usually goes for the second weekend as well.

I also agree that Messiah has the easier path, at least on paper.  Lycoming v Drew (should they make it) will be a tough test.

In even numbered years, men have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and women have hosting priority for Sectionals.

In odd numbered years, like this year, that flip-flops: women have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and men have hosting priority for Sectionals.

So if the Messiah men were seeded high enough to host, they couldn't have hosted this coming weekend (barring lack of other options or maybe getting one of the two 1st Round byes).  But if both Messiah men and women advance to sections and would both be the highest seed, the men would get to host over the women.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 06, 2017, 03:09:04 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 03:04:06 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
Two 1st round games I'd most like to watch are:
Rowan/JHU
Dickinson/Emory

I'm looking forward to see the Drew/F&M game.  Haven't seen either team in person yet.

I'd love to see Drew/Lycoming, so hopefully both win first round.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 06, 2017, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.

Typically, if both the men's and women's teams are eligible to host, the men get the even years and the women get the odd (unless one team has a bye).  That usually goes for the second weekend as well.

I also agree that Messiah has the easier path, at least on paper.  Lycoming v Drew (should they make it) will be a tough test.

In even numbered years, men have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and women have hosting priority for Sectionals.

In odd numbered years, like this year, that flip-flops: women have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and men have hosting priority for Sectionals.

So if the Messiah men were seeded high enough to host, they couldn't have hosted this coming weekend (barring lack of other options or maybe getting one of the two 1st Round byes).  But if both Messiah men and women advance to sections and would both be the highest seed, the men would get to host over the women.

I hope that is true (that the men would get the second weekend), but last year the men hosted the 1st and 2nd weekend and the women traveled the whole way to the Final 4.  Maybe the women weren't the highest remaining seed for sectionals?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 03:19:06 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 06, 2017, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.

Typically, if both the men's and women's teams are eligible to host, the men get the even years and the women get the odd (unless one team has a bye).  That usually goes for the second weekend as well.

I also agree that Messiah has the easier path, at least on paper.  Lycoming v Drew (should they make it) will be a tough test.

In even numbered years, men have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and women have hosting priority for Sectionals.

In odd numbered years, like this year, that flip-flops: women have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and men have hosting priority for Sectionals.

So if the Messiah men were seeded high enough to host, they couldn't have hosted this coming weekend (barring lack of other options or maybe getting one of the two 1st Round byes).  But if both Messiah men and women advance to sections and would both be the highest seed, the men would get to host over the women.

I hope that is true (that the men would get the second weekend), but last year the men hosted the 1st and 2nd weekend and the women traveled the whole way to the Final 4.  Maybe the women weren't the highest remaining seed for sectionals?

I should qualify that with "should they make it".    Upsets do happen.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 06, 2017, 03:34:49 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity?

I'm not so much of a homer as to discount the possibility that NPU might have gotten the bye in part due to geography. The sprawling western half of the bracket stretches from Virginia to Texas to California to Oregon to the entire midwest (Minnesota to Ohio, for practical purposes) and Kentucky. It even includes a couple of strays from Pennsylvania, PSU-Abington and Dickinson. It's a vastly different situation than is the case for the eastern half of the bracket, which is confined to the comparatively small northeastern corner of the country east of the Allegheny River and north of the Potomac River. Nothing unusual about that; it's a fact of life in all D3 sports.

Given that the western bracket covers about 95% of the country, it makes sense to give the bye (and, thus, the #1 seed) to a school that's: a) centrally located in terms of the 31 teams involved; b) close to a major airport; and c) has plenty of hotel rooms near campus. North Park obviously fits all three criteria, since the city of Chicago is the logical hub for a bracket half that stretches from Pennsylvania to Georgia to California to Oregon but is mostly concentrated in the midwest. Also, North Park is an 11-mile, half-hour drive from O'Hare, which is accessible from every medium-sized airport in the country, and there is plenty of hotel space in the city and northern suburbs.

Having said all that, it's obvious that NPU moved back ahead of the University of Chicago in the final Central Region ranking, because this could just as easily have been the U of C that we're talking about as the #1 seed and bye team in that quadrant of the bracket. The fact that the committee moved NPU back ahead of the U of C is a significant indication that the committee felt that, in the end, North Park scored higher on the five primary criteria than did the Maroons ... and the Vikings certainly have sterling credentials for hosting one of the eight pods this coming weekend.

In other words, while I'm not making any extravagant claims about NPU's qualifications as one of the top two seeds in the entire 62-team bracket, the Vikings are both the logical choice and a deserving one.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 06, 2017, 03:39:26 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.

Chicago is hosting site for first and second round for both men and women, with neither getting a bye.  I guess when you have both a grass pitch and a turf pitch the NCAA can make that happen.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2017, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

It happened just once--Messiah and E-town meeting three times in a season, that is.  People often talk like it occurred multiple times in the mid-80's to mid-90's time period, but it was only in 1993 that it actually happened.

E-town won the regular season match at Messiah, 1-0, and then beat the Falcons again in the MAC final that the Blue Jays hosted, this time by a 2-1 score. Then in the second round of the NCAA tournament, again at E-town, the Messiah exacted their revenge in a 1-0, triple overtime, sudden-death thriller.

What prevented them from meeting three times wasn't so much the NCAA tournament but the MAC conference.  From 1980 through 1999, they only met in the conference playoffs three times.  Yes, three times only, while during the same 20-year period they met  seven times in the NCAA's. In fact, up until 1993 when the conference shrunk due to a large contingent of schools breaking away to form the Centennial Conference, the only way to meet two times in a season was the NCAA tournament. 

Up until 1992 the MAC was huge, consisting of four total divisions.  Only the four division leaders made the MAC semifinals and since Messiah and E-town were in the same division after Messiah went D-III and joined the MAC, it was impossible for both be in the conference playoffs. Then from 1993 to 1999, it was just two divisions before being allowed to break into two separate conferences for automatic berth purposes. During that two-division period, two teams from each division made the playoffs and could meet in the final if both won their semifinals.  That happened just three times in seven years.

Once each division became it's own conference in 2000, each with its own four-team playoffs, Messiah and E-town start meeting regularly in the conference tournament, but at that point E-town was struggling to make the NCAA's with only 4 or 5 at-large berths before the tournament field expanded significantly in the mid-2000s.  So meeting in the NCAA's wasn't happening. And by the time the tournament field expanded E-town had truly faded from national prominence and were rarely close to nabbing one of the 15+ at-large berths.

So 1993 stands alone.  The only time one of the D-III soccer's greatest rivalries was played out three times in one season.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2017, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 06, 2017, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:45:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2017, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 06, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
My first observations.

(1) Very glad to see that Lycoming & Messiah don't have to play for a third time for a long time, if they both win out to that point. If that happens, it would be a national semi-final. When Etown was (a) better than they are lately and (b) in the Commonwealth Conference, sometimes Messiah & Etown would have to play 3 times. That wasn't good: too much familiarity on both sides, and it meant essentially (since both schools are very close geographically) that a third game would take place fairly early in the tournament. I don't recall that it actually happened often (perhaps just once or twice), but in theory it could have happened fairly often.

(2) Calvin and Chicago could be meeting in the Sweet Sixteen. That seems harsh, both ways.

(3) Somewhat surprised that NPU got one of the two byes. I wonder: would Messiah have been given one, if they'd beaten Lycoming Saturday night? Or, should one have gone to Trinity? I have no argument with Tufts getting one. However, if Midd had scored on that close play in the second half and tied Tufts, perhaps winning the AQ on PKs, would Tufts have gotten a bye?

(4) We could see a Sweet Sixteen with the nearly flawless Tufts defense against the high scoring Rowan offense. If that happens, it should be fun to watch--and certainly another harsh draw, though Tufts obviously has an easier path to that point. I assume that if Rowan had beaten RU-N, they wouldn't be lined up to face Tufts that early.

(5) Lycoming vs Drew in the second round? That's also pretty harsh both ways. If it transpires, it will be interesting to see that battle.

Lyco in Tufts side of bracket too. I think Messiah has the easier path to final 4.  Messiah probably can't host because women's team is hosting first round.

I agree Messiah has an easier draw than Lycoming. I don't know if that means they are still rated higher, but perhaps they are. The men can't host b/c the women are. Last year they both hosted, but only b/c the women had a bye. Otherwise the women would have traveled the first weekend. The good news here (for the men) is that they should host the second weekend, if they take care of business this weekend in Buffalo.

Typically, if both the men's and women's teams are eligible to host, the men get the even years and the women get the odd (unless one team has a bye).  That usually goes for the second weekend as well.

I also agree that Messiah has the easier path, at least on paper.  Lycoming v Drew (should they make it) will be a tough test.

In even numbered years, men have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and women have hosting priority for Sectionals.

In odd numbered years, like this year, that flip-flops: women have hosting priority for the 1st/2nd Rounds and men have hosting priority for Sectionals.

So if the Messiah men were seeded high enough to host, they couldn't have hosted this coming weekend (barring lack of other options or maybe getting one of the two 1st Round byes).  But if both Messiah men and women advance to sections and would both be the highest seed, the men would get to host over the women.

I hope that is true (that the men would get the second weekend), but last year the men hosted the 1st and 2nd weekend and the women traveled the whole way to the Final 4.  Maybe the women weren't the highest remaining seed for sectionals?

The Messiah women were not the top seed in their Sectional, undefeated and defending champion Williams was.  So their travelling to Williamstown had nothing to do with the men and hosting priorities. The men were able to host Sectionals last year, because the women weren't the top seed in theirs.  Otherwise the men would have been on the road to F&M or Cortland.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 2xfaux on November 06, 2017, 04:51:02 PM
I am confused.  The Messiah Women are hosting this weekend?? No?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 06, 2017, 04:51:02 PM
I am confused.  The Messiah Women are hosting this weekend?? No?

Yes, the Messiah women are hosting this year.  Flying Weasel was answering my question which concerned last year's tournament.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 06, 2017, 05:46:06 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2017, 04:40:54 PM
The Messiah women were not the top seed in their Sectional, undefeated and defending champion Williams was.  So their travelling to Williamstown had nothing to do with the men and hosting priorities. The men were able to host Sectionals last year, because the women weren't the top seed in theirs.  Otherwise the men would have been on the road to F&M or Cortland.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: bestfancle on November 06, 2017, 05:48:47 PM
Okay so what is everyone's Final Four Predictions?

1. Washington & Lee
2. Tufts
3. Messiah
4. JCU (I want to go with Chicago here, but don't want to take all top seeds)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: jknezek on November 06, 2017, 06:20:22 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 06, 2017, 05:48:47 PM
Okay so what is everyone's Final Four Predictions?

1. Washington & Lee
2. Tufts
3. Messiah
4. JCU (I want to go with Chicago here, but don't want to take all top seeds)

I like your pick, but I'll fall over backward if W&L makes it that far. They have struggled against quality teams all year. See 2 losses to Lynchburg, 1 to Roanoke, and the tie against F&M. Never blown out, but never quite getting over the hump. I do think winning the two home games is my low expectation.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 06, 2017, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4

Let me guess, you're going out on a limb and picking a Tufts v. Messiah semi-final?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 07, 2017, 08:32:59 AM
Are we going to do a tournament challenge again? I forget who kept score last year? I believe it was LastGuy who has unfortunately been quiet on the boards this season.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:58:09 AM
Shooter's Final 4:
St. Thomas
Calvin
Lycoming
Amherst
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:59:48 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4

Let me guess, you're going out on a limb and picking a Tufts v. Messiah semi-final?

I don't mind the Oneonta pick but having both W&L and Lynchburg in the Final 4, from the same conference, is a head scratcher but we will see what happens. Don't think Rowan gets out of the Sweet 16 let alone the entire quadrant.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 07, 2017, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Nor could Messiah win the Commonwealth.  I really don't think winning a conference title means a whole lot.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 07, 2017, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

IMO Rowan has the 2nd worst draw in the tournament after JCU, and of course you could argue the same for Hopkins, which, given their season, I change my vote to Hopkins.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 10:02:07 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 07, 2017, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Nor could Messiah win the Commonwealth.  I really don't think winning a conference title means a whole lot.

If you noticed I don't have Messiah or Rowan in my final 4  ;)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 10:02:30 AM
Messiah also has a cake walk to the elite 8
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2017, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

IMO Rowan has the 2nd worst draw in the tournament after JCU, and of course you could argue the same for Hopkins, which, given their season, I change my vote to Hopkins.

Yes
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 07, 2017, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
Two 1st round games I'd most like to watch are:
Rowan/JHU
Dickinson/Emory

I'm nothing if not parochial... Hopkins plays Desale in the first round, Rowan plays Cabrini.

I'm intrigued by the F&M/Drew match.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 07, 2017, 10:05:29 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:59:48 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4

Let me guess, you're going out on a limb and picking a Tufts v. Messiah semi-final?

I don't mind the Oneonta pick but having both W&L and Lynchburg in the Final 4, from the same conference, is a head scratcher but we will see what happens. Don't think Rowan gets out of the Sweet 16 let alone the entire quadrant.

Yes, this was done without too much thought.  Just a quick glance at the brackets.  I've seen W&L 2x and really liked them.  I'm not terribly impressed with Lynchburg's bracket so why not them? The Rowan bracket is brutal and honestly it's a toss-up who comes out of there. Part of me probably picked Rowan just to annoy all the haters.  And I'm not sold on Messiah at all.  I think they get bounced early via a set piece which they can't defend.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 07, 2017, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 10:02:30 AM
Messiah also has a cake walk to the elite 8

Agreed.  Other best draws go to North Park and W&L (who gets to host after not winning regular season or conf tourney) with clear path the Sweet 16 and a shot at North Park.

Interesting that so many are picking Calvin.  I'm a huge Calvin fan and picked them to beat Tufts in national semis a couple of weeks ago.  However, I DO NOT LIKE their draw.  They have a very back and forth history with OWU (and OWU took Calvin to OT earlier this season AT CALVIN when OWU wasn't particularly good) and if JCU gets by OWU then Calvin gets a strong JCU team on JCU's turf.  Then there is still Chicago out there looming.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 10:08:21 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 07, 2017, 10:05:29 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:59:48 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4

Let me guess, you're going out on a limb and picking a Tufts v. Messiah semi-final?

I don't mind the Oneonta pick but having both W&L and Lynchburg in the Final 4, from the same conference, is a head scratcher but we will see what happens. Don't think Rowan gets out of the Sweet 16 let alone the entire quadrant.

Yes, this was done without too much thought.  Just a quick glance at the brackets.  I've seen W&L 2x and really liked them.  I'm not terribly impressed with Lynchburg's bracket so why not them? The Rowan bracket is brutal and honestly it's a toss-up who comes out of there. Part of me probably picked Rowan just to annoy all the haters.  And I'm not sold on Messiah at all.  I think they get bounced early via a set piece which they can't defend.

It is just rare to see 2 teams from the same conference meet in the tourney let alone the final 4. I don't recall the last time that happened. A lot needs to go right for W&L to meet is all I was trying  to point out. Anyone is capable at this point to make a run. It's a magical time of year!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 07, 2017, 10:14:09 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 07, 2017, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 02:50:36 PM
Two 1st round games I'd most like to watch are:
Rowan/JHU
Dickinson/Emory

I'm nothing if not parochial... Hopkins plays Desale in the first round, Rowan plays Cabrini.

I'm intrigued by the F&M/Drew match.

Whoops - my bad.  I think everyone is intrigued by Drew.  They haven't lost. I've seen them and they are legit. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 07, 2017, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 07, 2017, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Nor could Messiah win the Commonwealth.  I really don't think winning a conference title means a whole lot.

Look no further than Tufts..2 National Championships and lost in quarter finals of NESCAC tourney each year.  They may be in trouble this year though since they won the NESCAC tournament.  That said... Rowan has a tough road to the Final 4. I don't think they will make it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: bestfancle on November 07, 2017, 10:29:36 AM
At 5:30 on Friday, OWU plays at JCU. A rematch of the the most exciting game I saw all year (although not the best defense)...

In early September OWU traveled to JCU and lost 5-4 in overtime. At the start of the second half, JCU scored to make it 3-1, with OWU's only goal coming off a weird long throw in that didn't seem to hit anyone on OWU but deflect off of a JCU player into the net. I though the game was over. OWU showed true determination an clawed back, scoring 3 times in the 2nd half. Two of the goals came within one minute of each-other and OWU was up 4-3. With 3 minutes left in the game JCU headed the ball towards goal only for OWU to make a great save, it was only on the rebound that JCU was able to score and tie the game up. Onto overtime both teams were exhausted and created a couple chances, JCU may have been slightly better in OT after struggling in the 2nd half. In the 109th minute JCU's All-American Candidate Jesse Marinaro got higher than any of the OWU defenders to head the ball home, which is impressive because he's not a very tall guy.

Since that game, JCU has still been good, but has fallen victim to a few OAC teams. They will need to play much stronger, and should be more motivated after getting knocked out of the NCAA tournament in the first round last year. OWU looks much better than they did early on this season, and are coming off a must-win conference championship game against a formidable Kenyon (who also looks better towards the end of the season).

So... long story short... if you aren't doing anything on Friday at 5:30 this should be a great game to watch, and the winner will most likely face Calvin the next day!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 07, 2017, 11:32:08 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4

I agree with Me Right here. for once lol
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2017, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 07, 2017, 10:29:36 AM
At 5:30 on Friday, OWU plays at JCU. A rematch of the the most exciting game I saw all year (although not the best defense)...

In early September OWU traveled to JCU and lost 5-4 in overtime. At the start of the second half, JCU scored to make it 3-1, with OWU's only goal coming off a weird long throw in that didn't seem to hit anyone on OWU but deflect off of a JCU player into the net. I though the game was over. OWU showed true determination an clawed back, scoring 3 times in the 2nd half. Two of the goals came within one minute of each-other and OWU was up 4-3. With 3 minutes left in the game JCU headed the ball towards goal only for OWU to make a great save, it was only on the rebound that JCU was able to score and tie the game up. Onto overtime both teams were exhausted and created a couple chances, JCU may have been slightly better in OT after struggling in the 2nd half. In the 109th minute JCU's All-American Candidate Jesse Marinaro got higher than any of the OWU defenders to head the ball home, which is impressive because he's not a very tall guy.

Since that game, JCU has still been good, but has fallen victim to a few OAC teams. They will need to play much stronger, and should be more motivated after getting knocked out of the NCAA tournament in the first round last year. OWU looks much better than they did early on this season, and are coming off a must-win conference championship game against a formidable Kenyon (who also looks better towards the end of the season).

So... long story short... if you aren't doing anything on Friday at 5:30 this should be a great game to watch, and the winner will most likely face Calvin the next day!


I remember watching this game because JCU was undefeated at the time and was curious. I was thoroughly impressed with JCU's explosiveness in this game especially with the striker and midfielder who's names reminded me of an all pasta team. Unfortunately, I turned to another game when JCU was in control 3-1 and I missed OWU's comeback and all the goals that went with it. I do remember being very impressed with how JCU looked on their turf. I'll be tuning in again but would have to think that OWU will be much more organized defensively this time around.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 07, 2017, 11:39:33 AM
i'm going with: North Park, Calvin, Amherst, Lycoming

and Calvin winning

really wanted to go with Messiah but wanted to change it up a little
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2017, 11:52:43 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
early prediction, before giving it a ton of thought:
W&L
Lynchburg
Rowan
Oneonta


I will take any odds you give me that none of those teams are in the Final 4

Let me guess, you're going out on a limb and picking a Tufts v. Messiah semi-final?


Not sure yet BUT I know who I am not picking. I have seen Rowan play about 3 times on the stream and they are a very solid team but can be beaten. They are very athletic and I really like that Doherty kid as that kid has some sick speed and I like speed. Not many defenders can keep up with him and if I was picking a team of 11 from every team in this tournament he would be on it. They have a 6'8 GK which is very impressive and intimidating but RUN failed to get him down on the carpet with low bullets so I have not seen how fast he can get down which would be key. Rowan will be a tough out and they will want their revenge on Tufts. I think they get by JHU easily but not sold yet if they can win at Tufts. Will know soon.

Oneonta is another very solid team but like I said yesterday they are a well oiled machine at Home but the minute they are plucked from their Home turf and put on the road especially on grass they struggle IMO. Plus they do not have a walkover in the 1st or 2nd round with some teams that will sit compact and deep against them. They might get bounced this weekend who knows.

Honestly I have not seen W&L or Lynchburg but I know how Singleton at W&L plays from his days at MIT. He is a solid coach but his teams usually wilt against bigger physical teams. Not sure if he is recruiting differently nowadays. Lynchburg's bracket is just way to difficult to get thru IMO. Like I said I have no idea but will still take any odds you give me that those 4 will not be there.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Messiah has won the national championship 3 times without winning the conference so I'm certain it can can be done.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 12:40:10 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Messiah has won the national championship 3 times without winning the conference so I'm certain it can can be done.

Yes but that's Messiah...you're really going to compare this Rowan team to the last 15+ years of Messiah teams??? No way they are even close to that level.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 07, 2017, 12:44:47 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Messiah has won the national championship 3 times without winning the conference so I'm certain it can can be done.

The last four men's national champions did not win their conference tournament.

Five of the last seven men's national champions did not win their conference tournament.

Seven of the last thirteen men's national champions did not win their conference tournament.

Men's National Champions who did not win their conference tournament: 2016 Tufts, 2015 Amherst, 2014 Tufts, 2013 Messiah, 2011 Ohio Wesleyan, 2006 Messiah, 2004 Messiah.

P.S. I don't think Rowan will win it all this year, but not because they lost in their conference final.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 12:47:40 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 07, 2017, 12:44:47 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 07, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 07, 2017, 09:43:45 AM
My early prediction for the Final Four:
North Park
Calvin
Rowan
Messiah

Rowan couldn't even win the NJAC...what makes you think they will survive the toughest quadrant of the bracket?  ???

Messiah has won the national championship 3 times without winning the conference so I'm certain it can can be done.

The last four men's national champions did not win their conference tournament.

Five of the last seven men's national champions did not win their conference tournament.

Seven of the last thirteen men's national champions did not win their conference tournament.

Men's National Champions who did not win their conference tournament: 2016 Tufts, 2015 Amherst, 2014 Tufts, 2013 Messiah, 2011 Ohio Wesleyan, 2006 Messiah, 2004 Messiah.

Solid research +k!

Still not gonna change my mind on Rowan though. They won't make the final 4 for all the reasons I have been posting over the last couple of weeks, which were the exact reasons why they couldn't even win the NJAC.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 07, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
I'll go with:

Final 4:
Kenyon
Tufts
Calvin
Messiah

I think this is Kenyon's year to make it to the final 4.  Over achieve this year..they are due for some breaks this time around.
Tufts just has lady luck on their side and a defense yet to let up a legit goal.   And they literally have a walk in the park to sweet 16 with a bye and very easy first game.  St Joe's may give them a game but other than Bowdoin win they do not have a win over a real tough team. So well rested while other teams like Lyco/RUN/Rowan/Drew/F&M/Hopkins battle it out in early rounds in their quadrant.  Despite Calvin's easy schedule they play a style similar to Messiah (possession) and were in finals last year and semi finals in 2015.  Someone will need to knock them out..maybe this is Chicago's year but Calvin has had more recent success in tournament so I'm going with them.  Messiah has good draw for first round..not the best location given they are the top seed but they may come home if they make it through the weekend where they will be ready to get through sweet 16 and elite 8 barriers and return to the final 4.



Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 09, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
1st round games to keep an eye on...
UW-P vs Westminster
W&L vs MW
Kenyon vs Transylvania
Dominican vs Capital
JC vs OWU
Dickinson vs Emory
F&M vs Drew
Newark vs Bowdoin
Buff St vs Hobart
Midd vs Stevens
UR vs CT College

I can see any of these games going one way or the other. All toss ups in my view. Now clearly Kenyon and JC will be favored in those matches but I would not be surprised to see them on the short end of the stick. Do I anticipate that happening? Probably not both losing maybe 1 and will not at all be shocked if both win. But it's close enough that they made the "toss-up" list. 


Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2017, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 09, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
1st round games to keep an eye on...
UW-P vs Westminster
W&L vs MW
Kenyon vs Transylvania
Dominican vs Capital
JC vs OWU
Dickinson vs Emory
F&M vs Drew
Newark vs Bowdoin
Buff St vs Hobart
Midd vs Stevens
UR vs CT College

I can see any of these games going one way or the other. All toss ups in my view. Now clearly Kenyon and JC will be favored in those matches but I would not be surprised to see them on the short end of the stick. Do I anticipate that happening? Probably not both losing maybe 1 and will not at all be shocked if both win. But it's close enough that they made the "toss-up" list.

Agree 100%.  St Joseph's (ME) appropriately getting attention in New England but Transy is similarly sitting on a stellar 17-1 record.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2017, 01:34:31 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 09, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
1st round games to keep an eye on...
UW-P vs Westminster

I'm looking forward to doing the play-by-play for this match, as I haven't seen either side before and it'll be fun to work a match that'll feature a five-camera setup and replay at my disposal.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on November 09, 2017, 03:47:09 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2017, 01:34:31 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 09, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
1st round games to keep an eye on...
UW-P vs Westminster

I'm looking forward to doing the play-by-play for this match, as I haven't seen either side before and it'll be fun to work a match that'll feature a five-camera setup and replay at my disposal.

Greg, when announcing this game please be sure to give Platteville (and Loras) a hard time for not scheduling a game against each other this season (or last) despite being only 20 miles apart as the crow flies.  Mrs Dubuquer works at one and I work at the other and we want to see them play.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2017, 03:57:40 PM
It's a bit of a stretch, Dubuquer. It'd be relevant if Loras was a potential common opponent of the Pioneers and the Titans, but the Duhawks didn't play Westminster (MO), either.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2017, 05:37:54 PM
MAF, you might want to add Medaille at Otterbein to your list. The Mavericks have played the likes of Lycoming,  Buff St and Brockport, with decent results. Played Buff St tough and beat Brockport. The Mavericks are almost all frosh and sophs and almost the whole team is from England, Scotland and Australia. Led by frosh striker with one of the best names in the tourney...Given Holy Gdobe.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: truenorth on November 09, 2017, 08:05:23 PM
I'm curious what would motivate teenagers and early 20-somethings from England, Scotland and Australia to come and play soccer at a D3 college in the U.S.?  There are no D3 athletic scholarships and it's a relatively modest level of play...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Part_Bart on November 09, 2017, 08:29:07 PM
Quote from: truenorth on November 09, 2017, 08:05:23 PM
I'm curious what would motivate teenagers and early 20-somethings from England, Scotland and Australia to come and play soccer at a D3 college in the U.S.?  There are no D3 athletic scholarships and it's a relatively modest level of play...

Well, and speaking only as someone who works at a university, there is the chance to parlay your soccer skills into a college education at places that do not offer athletic scholarships.  Merit awards can be made for a host of reasons.  Some of the these merit awards are for high-performing academics. Some are made to young women and men who are great artists, or have other rare skills (e.g., amazing baton twirling, demonstrated ability to be a community organizer, success as a young entrepreneur, etc.). Likewise, creating a more diverse student body while providing this student body with the chance to engage with international students has merit that deserves financial support.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: truenorth on November 09, 2017, 08:57:53 PM
I think we all get that in a general sense of liberal arts colleges.  As one anecdotal example, we are host family for a NESCAC student from Hanoi who is on partial grant aid, is passionate about international relations, but is not an athlete.... 

So are you thinking that Medaille College in Buffalo, NY is appealing to academically qualified high school graduates from the UK, Australia and Spain to come to the U.S. for a quality education...and that those young lads just happen to have an additional skill that translates on the soccer pitch?  I apologize if I'm sounding cynical, but if you look at the roster it just begs the question...

http://www.medaillesports.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2017, 09:20:48 PM
Perhaps they like chicken wings. ;)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Part_Bart on November 09, 2017, 09:52:00 PM
Well: the English coach uses his contacts well.
Seems like the athletic department is allowing this to happen, which is a bit atypical.
More typical to see at most one or two international students on a roster (e.g., http://athletics.dyc.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/roster - also in Buffalo and drawing from within the region, but has none)
And public colleges and universities (who typically have less flexibility to discount tuition/costs, typically have fewer international players on their roster (e.g., http://www.buffalostateathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc -- a SUNYAC school that draws from across NY)

Focusing on Medaille, and looking to collegefactual.com and the US News and World Report data (both drawing from and supplementing the data collected by and shared from the US Department of Education), it seems the typical Medaille student pays about half of the listed tuition (indeed, most private college and universities are discounting 40+% of tuition, using a combination of grants and federally subsidized loans). Not hard to shave down a bit more cost and suddenly the cost is not all that different from the costs for college in England (which don't have the college sports)....

Many small colleges (and particularly private colleges) see D3 sports as a vehicle to help draw students TO their college. My back of the envelope analysis is that Medaille is part of conference (AMCC) where most schools enroll between 1500-3000 students and from 1/5 to 1/3 of these students are part of a varsity sports team.  A strong sports program is a draw to parents and students, generating both (some) tuition dollars and additional development opportunities (e.g, in support of facilities).

Worth noting that getting a degree in the US may provide these young men more opportunities than might be available in their home country, or allow them to expand their range of opportunities.

And, as noted, access to great chicken wings  is clearly a factor@

I'm not sure if its cynical to wonder WHY this is happening, or if this adds real value (or even covers costs).... 

Re: NESCAC schools. Pretty sure they offer D3 sports as a means of expanding and magnifying the college experience for the students they select to attend these institutions (and for many applicants, excellent sports are one more draw to apply for and attend).....
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: truenorth on November 10, 2017, 09:41:03 AM
That's a good analysis Part Bart.

As you're probably aware, only a fraction of high school students in the UK go on to university.  Many end up on vocational tracks.  So if a UK high school graduate perceives there's commercial value in going to a U.S. college, it's unlikely Dad and Mum are picking up much of the tab for travel, tuition, room and board.  I have no idea whether colleges like Medaille are offering larger grants to international students who play a sport vs. domestic students who don't play a sport...

Regarding the NESCAC schools, they are strongly committed to creating diverse campus communities, and international students are a big part of that effort.  That said, the vast majority of athletes on their teams are Americans, and to a smaller extent Canadians.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 10, 2017, 11:51:14 AM
Regarding foreign players in D3, many schools have them. Hopkins has an Asian national as their starting keeper, to give just one example that I saw with my own eyes--and he's really good.

How students finance their American educations is beyond me, except that he know many laced have specific scholarships for non-Americans. I know of a few schools where such scholarships are very large indeed. I don't know what Messiah does on that score.i  can't recall any foreign soccer players during the championship seasons or since, but perhaps I am forgetting someone.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: bestfancle on November 10, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 10, 2017, 11:51:14 AM
Regarding foreign players in D3, many schools have them. Hopkins has an Asian national as their starting keeper, to give just one example that I saw with my own eyes--and he's really good.

How students finance their American educations is beyond me, except that he know many laced have specific scholarships for non-Americans. I know of a few schools where such scholarships are very large indeed. I don't know what Messiah does on that score.i  can't recall any foreign soccer players during the championship seasons or since, but perhaps I am forgetting someone.

Don't know how it is with all schools. JCU, as a Jesuit Catholic university, offers equal straight tuition to a couple of Jesuit Universities in Europe. This allows JCU students to study there for an extended periods of time as well as students from other countries coming over. I believe JCU has a player from Spain.

That being said, these students typically come from wealthy families abroad, they plan on staying a semester, but end up liking it and staying for their playing careers.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: JHU Fan on November 10, 2017, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: truenorth on November 10, 2017, 09:41:03 AM


Regarding the NESCAC schools, they are strongly committed to creating diverse campus communities, and international students are a big part of that effort.  That said, the vast majority of athletes on their teams are Americans, and to a smaller extent Canadians.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Canadians ARE Americans!  I'm just sayin' . . .
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 04:43:40 PM
That is absolutely RIDICULOUS. That is beyond a joke for a D3 school to have all those English guys on a roster. You only see something like that in D2 and it is slowly coming to a stop. That looks like a 1986 Southern Connecticut roster Ray Reid style...What a joke....I hope Medaille bows out FAST...Ofcourse the coach and his 5 assistants are blokes as well...AD at Medaille must have been suckered with the accent and suitcase...The English make Americans JUMP THRU HOOPS to even get a chance to play over there YET they send all these retread coaches and players here..Do not even get me going on this.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 10, 2017, 05:29:57 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 04:43:40 PM
That is absolutely RIDICULOUS. That is beyond a joke for a D3 school to have all those English guys on a roster. You only see something like that in D2 and it is slowly coming to a stop. That looks like a 1986 Southern Connecticut roster Ray Reid style...What a joke....I hope Medaille bows out FAST...Ofcourse the coach and his 5 assistants are blokes as well...AD at Medaille must have been suckered with the accent and suitcase...The English make Americans JUMP THRU HOOPS to even get a chance to play over there YET they send all these retread coaches and players here..Do not


we played them first round 2012. their coach called their season "the toad to amazing" and many other things that were really ridiculous. he was also very arrogant and cocky but kids like that when visiting schools. they play a cake schedule and never have a strong showing in NCAAs
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: luckylefty on November 10, 2017, 06:06:59 PM
Some schools have international programs that allow kids to get scholarships to fund more of their experience. If you see a cluster of international kids on any d3 roster odds are the school has international money.

I also second the Medaille English connection being ridiculous. I can't see how that works long term and retention will be an absolute mess.

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Londoner on November 10, 2017, 10:37:21 PM
Hi, I'm a long time reader, first time poster, so please take it easy on me.
Felt I had to pipe up as there was a lot of misinformation being put forward in regards to Medaille and international students in D3 soccer.
I'm originally from London, England, and played four years of D3 Soccer.
I played in four NCAA tournaments. The experiences I had here were ones I will treasure for the rest of my life.

The NCAA system is unlike anything else in the world. It is one of a kind. I believe you should be proud - as Americans - that student athletes from across the globe want to come and play here. The top level of D3 is an elite standard that should not be disrespected. Many of the elite D3 programs have D1 talent, but add the focus on academics. For an international student, to get a 1st rate degree, AND be able to play competitive soccer at a good level is incredibly attractive.

As far as scholarships etc go, many international students have a base "international" scholarship, and then add additional merit based, depending on their grades. It is certainly not just "all the rich kids." I would guess that many of those Medaille players are former Premier League (or lower league) academy kids who were cut. At that age, they don't want to give up their dream of playing pro, but need an education too. The ability to come to the US and chase both dreams is a fantastic option.

In response to Mr Right - whose posts I usually find informative and entertaining - I'm not sure what "hoops" you are referring to in the UK that Americans have to jump through. From first hand experience, it was a lot harder for me to get over here to play at college, than it has been for some Americans I've known to go to the UK for pro trials and try outs.

An internationally diverse program and team is something I was proud to be a part of and something that should be treasured and protected.

So I'm not cheering for or against Medaille, but don't think they should be picked on for providing a life changing opportunity for kids from across the world to change their lives.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Londoner on November 10, 2017, 10:39:08 PM
BUT... most importantly, let's enjoy the Tournament.
Congrats to Calvin and John Carroll on advancing tonight.
Should be a good game tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: inlovewithplaid on November 10, 2017, 11:57:03 PM
I get to go to a handful of Michigan State University men's soccer games each year. MSU is having a good year, and it has a couple of really good players. The Big Ten Conference has a few good programs, like Indiana, and now Maryland. I've seen a lot of D1 soccer come through East Lansing. I've also been following NESCAC soccer for the past four or five years, and D3 Michigan programs like Calvin. The elite D3 soccer stacks up to the D1s, in my opinion, and I have to say that I often find it more entertaining. And, also, while some D3 conferences and programs are stronger and weaker than others, the exact same thing can be said for D1 and 2. That's my take.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Part_Bart on November 11, 2017, 07:01:49 AM
Quote from: Londoner on November 10, 2017, 10:39:08 PM
BUT... most importantly, let's enjoy the Tournament.
Congrats to Calvin and John Carroll on advancing tonight.
Should be a good game tomorrow.

Thanks, Londoner, for the posts.  What you report from experience jives with what I've seen and been told about the participation of international students on U.S. College soccer teams.  This noted, the Medaille roster seems a little unbalanced in representation. The NCAA is dealing with this over-internationalization in a number of sports (swimming, water polo are two I know more about than some of the others) and one conversation is to limit the percentage of spots offered to non-US-based student-athletes. This will accelerate the trajectory of international students coming to the US to play at a Junior College for a year (and become US-based).  Sigh.

Luckily, most coaches see the opportunity in the same way you have outlined it -- an amazing way to close out one's organized soccer career and parlay this love of a game into a college degree. 

So, thanks, and please do say that you are an Arsenal fan so I feel good about standing with you!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: truenorth on November 11, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
I myself am in for Liverpool!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
St Scholastica--the MN school that scored zillions of goals in recent seasons--has had a high percentage of English or other foreign players as long as I've followed them. This year they show 5 Brits, 2 Canadians, and 2 Mexicans. Coach Barry Chastey hails from England, where he played semi-pro soccer.

I checked this year's Falcon roster, b/c I know that David Alejos is listed as coming from Mexico. But, as I had thought, he graduated from Lancaster Mennonite HS, which is no more than 60 miles from campus. It's the same school that has produced half a dozen Falcons in the championship era, as well as one of the best players that Gordon College had recently. Not to mention Keegan Rosenberry, who played at D1 Georgetown before entering MLS.

I was thinking of Alejos as an American--and he might be an American citizen, for all I know.

The Ramirez brothers are a similar case. Their family is from Guatemala, and that is where they are from according to the rosters, but they graduated from a HS in Harrisburg PA. I wasn't counting them as foreign players for that reason, but you could.

I am still not thinking of any unambiguous examples from Falcon rosters in the championship years.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 11, 2017, 09:45:38 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
St Scholastica--the MN school that scored zillions of goals in recent seasons--has had a high percentage of English or other foreign players as long as I've followed them. This year they show 5 Brits, 2 Canadians, and 2 Mexicans. Coach Barry Chastey hails from England, where he played semi-pro soccer.

I checked this year's Falcon roster, b/c I know that David Alejos is listed as coming from Mexico. But, as I had thought, he graduated from Lancaster Mennonite HS, which is no more than 60 miles from campus. It's the same school that has produced half a dozen Falcons in the championship era, as well as one of the best players that Gordon College had recently. Not to mention Keegan Rosenberry, who played at D1 Georgetown before entering MLS.

I was thinking of Alejos as an American--and he might be an American citizen, for all I know.

The Ramirez brothers are a similar case. Their family is from Guatemala, and that is where they are from according to the rosters, but they graduated from a HS in Harrisburg PA. I wasn't counting them as foreign players for that reason, but you could.

I am still not thinking of any unambiguous examples from Falcon rosters in the championship years.

Typically if th coaching staff hails from England, Scotland, etc, then more likely to have the foreign players. Messiah coaches have been American. Alejos is from Mexico..only  came here I believe last 2 years of high school as some type of exchange student
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 10:55:26 AM
Quote from: Londoner on November 10, 2017, 10:37:21 PM
Hi, I'm a long time reader, first time poster, so please take it easy on me.
Felt I had to pipe up as there was a lot of misinformation being put forward in regards to Medaille and international students in D3 soccer.
I'm originally from London, England, and played four years of D3 Soccer.
I played in four NCAA tournaments. The experiences I had here were ones I will treasure for the rest of my life.

The NCAA system is unlike anything else in the world. It is one of a kind. I believe you should be proud - as Americans - that student athletes from across the globe want to come and play here. The top level of D3 is an elite standard that should not be disrespected. Many of the elite D3 programs have D1 talent, but add the focus on academics. For an international student, to get a 1st rate degree, AND be able to play competitive soccer at a good level is incredibly attractive.

As far as scholarships etc go, many international students have a base "international" scholarship, and then add additional merit based, depending on their grades. It is certainly not just "all the rich kids." I would guess that many of those Medaille players are former Premier League (or lower league) academy kids who were cut. At that age, they don't want to give up their dream of playing pro, but need an education too. The ability to come to the US and chase both dreams is a fantastic option.

In response to Mr Right - whose posts I usually find informative and entertaining - I'm not sure what "hoops" you are referring to in the UK that Americans have to jump through. From first hand experience, it was a lot harder for me to get over here to play at college, than it has been for some Americans I've known to go to the UK for pro trials and try outs.

An internationally diverse program and team is something I was proud to be a part of and something that should be treasured and protected.

So I'm not cheering for or against Medaille, but don't think they should be picked on for providing a life changing opportunity for kids from across the world to change their lives.

I am not against some international flavor on any roster. Some. It helps everyone learn about different cultures, attitudes and the like. That Medaille roster is beyond acceptable. Not only has the coach bypassed the local landscape for players he has bypassed ANY American players. The UK used to mandate an American have an official US Cap before he could play in any of their TOP 4 divisions even if the player was more than able to make the roster. I just look at the influx of all these British coaches into are club systems and colleges and get a tad irritated. Some of these clubs will only HIRE British coaches when there are plenty of worthy Americans to hire. I suppose I look at the whole situation like a ton of UK fans look at the influx of Americans owning Premier League teams and wanting them OUT. Protesting at every game for these clueless Americans to sell their shares. A bit of a stretch I know but you get the idea. I am very happy you got such a rewarding experience and I have no problem with that. I think every school should try to accomplish this BUT this Medaille situation is not correct.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 11:30:57 AM
Ah, Beatty just came on WPI so he is gonna give it a go.  Let's see if he can do anything versus Oneonta.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 12:21:53 PM
Oneonta getting frustrated and now very chippy.

Ref has let Oneonta get away with 7 or 8 body slams in a row.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 11, 2017, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 11:30:57 AM
Ah, Beatty just came on WPI so he is gonna give it a go.  Let's see if he can do anything versus Oneonta.

Ayeeeeeeeeee!!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 12:38:09 PM
Nemes has played good game but has coughed the ball up in his half in middle of field at least 3 teams because didn't play fast enough and tried to dribble out.  Almost led to goals each time.  Beatty has obvious hamstring injury.  Can't really run or go hard for balls.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2017, 12:49:30 PM
Wow!  An exciting set of games to start off the day.  UW-Superior take early lead on heavy favorite and host St. Thomas [Tommie now in command 3-1].  Oneonta being held in scoreless stalemate by WPI.  Salem State score second half equalizer to knot AMherst 1-1.  Lots of goals in the the Oglethorpe-NC Wesleyan match with Wesleyan coming back from 3 down to make it a game at 3-2 [Petrols score again to lead 4-2 late].
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 12:51:15 PM
WPI with a tremendous effort and have had their chances despite Oneonta dominating possession.  A healthy Beatty might have burned Oneonta on the counter at least once.  WPI likely exhausted now.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 01:33:24 PM
Oneonta survives....barely. 5 PK makes in a row each team.  Beatty missed #6 and did not look like he should have been taking one.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 01:56:24 PM
Interesting match going on in St. Paul with UW Superior pulling within a goal with about 5 minutes to go. St. Thomas currently leads 4-3 with UWS applying the pressure.

Edit* - didn't realize St. Thomas is down to 10 men
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 02:08:18 PM
University of St. Thomas survives the first round but will be without starting goalkeeper Aidan Hogan for tomorrow's contest. Hogan was sent off towards the end of the first half. Troy Louwagie is their second choice keeper who has only played 15 minutes all season prior to today. Needless to say, he didn't look entirely comfortable tending net in that second half.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 02:09:13 PM
F&M just got the first goal of the game vs Drew. The usual blurry, limited view stream you get from Lycoming, so I couldn't tell who did what.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 02:10:18 PM
And Drew got one back as I was typing.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 02:14:44 PM
Stevens narrowly missed getting a clean breakaway vs Midd, whose keeper had to come out 20 yards really fast to knock it away. Nice play.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 02:37:25 PM
F&M gets another on a counter, nice buildup and a "play on" foul that allowed a 1 v 1 with the keeper coming out to try to stop it. Again you can't see who did what. The Drew goal was credited to Cserhat, number 22 for the season on a header. Wish I could have seen it, but the fuzzy image and distance don't allow it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 02:42:10 PM
Drew ties it again with less than 7 mins in the half. This one is back and forth, the whole length of the field, and fun to "watch," but would be more fun really to watch.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on November 11, 2017, 03:31:26 PM
Fans at the St. Thomas pod are getting to see some goals.  The Tommies survive playing a man down for a half by winning 4-3.  Loras is now up 3-1 in the first half and have taken advantage of a Cal Lutheran keeper who the announcers say is only 5'7".  CLU scored in the 3rd minute but since then it's all Duhawks.  Maybe the Duhawk men are trying to follow the lead of the Loras women, who put 4 in the back of the net in the first 15 minutes last night.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on November 11, 2017, 03:32:45 PM
Check that. Loras up 4-1 now late in the first half.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Upstatesoc on November 11, 2017, 04:13:56 PM
Roch/Cen Conn 1-1 into OT.
Beautiful scenic  field at Oneonta, but no lights for extra OT or PKs. Getting dark.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Upstatesoc on November 11, 2017, 04:21:37 PM
No worry on lights, UR finishes 2-1 in OT. UR/Oneonta 1PM Sunday.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 05:56:56 PM
Cabrini taking Rowan to OT. Live stats say Rowan has 40 shots???
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 06:10:00 PM
Lake Forest goes up 1-0 on Chicago 12 seconds into the game....Unreal..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 06:11:23 PM
Kickoff---Long Ball---Chicago defender Header right to Lake forest Player----One Touch---Rips it---Chicago GK way off his line---Ball over his head---Net...12 seconds
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 11, 2017, 06:15:43 PM
Falcons finally score early in the second half. Now Castleton has to release the parking brake on their bus.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2017, 01:34:31 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 09, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
1st round games to keep an eye on...
UW-P vs Westminster

I'm looking forward to doing the play-by-play for this match, as I haven't seen either side before and it'll be fun to work a match that'll feature a five-camera setup and replay at my disposal.

Video feed working for anyone else? Says the broadcast cannot be found, kickoff was set for 6pm eastern time
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gotberg on November 11, 2017, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2017, 01:34:31 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 09, 2017, 09:18:05 AM
1st round games to keep an eye on...
UW-P vs Westminster

I'm looking forward to doing the play-by-play for this match, as I haven't seen either side before and it'll be fun to work a match that'll feature a five-camera setup and replay at my disposal.

Video feed working for anyone else? Says the broadcast cannot be found, kickoff was set for 6pm eastern time

Yes, it started to work about 10 minutes into game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 06:41:55 PM
UAA showing well...3-0-0 with Chicago down 2-1 to LF...Nescac laying an egg...1-2-0 with Amherst barely squeaking by Salem State
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
Trinity up 4-0 over Texas Tyler..Some really nice goals in this game...Texas Tyler not sure what is going on
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 11, 2017, 06:47:07 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 06:41:55 PM
UAA showing well...3-0-0 with Chicago down 2-1 to LF...Nescac laying an egg...1-2-0 with Amherst barely squeaking by Salem State

You beat me to the theme of this post, Mr. Right.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 06:56:02 PM
Man that Matthew Koh for UChicago has some wheels... U of C down to Lake Forest 2-1 at halftime. Chicago the more creative and dangerous side, could have had 4 or 5 goals had they been more clinical. Think Chicago takes care of business in the second half.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 11, 2017, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 11, 2017, 06:56:02 PM
Man that Matthew Koh for UChicago has some wheels... U of C down to Lake Forest 2-1 at halftime. Chicago the more creative and dangerous side, could have had 4 or 5 goals had they been more clinical. Think Chicago takes care of business in the second half.

I hope UOC opens it up this half bc I wasn't too impressed with them. they get forward and in dangerous spots but they haven't finished any chances nor were any on target. I watched the last 20 min of first half so I can't really say much. they are very goood though
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: paclassic89 on November 11, 2017, 07:05:04 PM
Wow! Rowan bounced in the first round by Cabrini. Shots were 42-2 in favor of Rowan  :o
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: jknezek on November 11, 2017, 07:11:11 PM
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 11, 2017, 07:05:04 PM
Wow! Rowan bounced in the first round by Cabrini. Shots were 42-2 in favor of Rowan  :o

I checked in on W&L's field hockey team this morning. They were playing top ranked Messiah and it was 2-2 late in the game. Messiah had taken over 40 shots, W&L had scored on the only two shots they got. Messiah scored late and won with just under 50 shots, W&L never got another one. It just goes that way sometimes in sports like soccer and field hockey. The dang ball just won't go in.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 07:12:55 PM
JCU and Calvin feeling it out a bit...this will be the best game of the night
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 07:27:56 PM
Chicago in control now 3-2 off a Koh set piece to Lopez' Head...UAA looking at 4-0-0 now..well done..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 11, 2017, 07:50:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 07:27:56 PM
Chicago in control now 3-2 off a Koh set piece to Lopez' Head...UAA looking at 4-0-0 now..well done..


I think chicago may have seen my post about them. but now they look like a top 5 team
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 11, 2017, 08:15:14 PM
It's not about being clinical for Chicago.  It's about spreading the pitch and giving space for their talented and fast forwards to create.   Being down 2-0 in a tournament match and score 5 straight shows some moxie.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2017, 08:17:24 PM
Calvin has started the same 11 players in all 21 games this season.  Gotta think it's very rare for that to happen.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
Game starting to get stretched a bit
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on November 11, 2017, 08:58:16 PM
Calvin closes the game with 2 goals in final 5 minutes. Great game! Looking forward to Calvin v Chicago.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: luckylefty on November 11, 2017, 09:39:03 PM
Was at both games at Rowan tonight. Rowan was obviously the better team in the first game of the evening but that shot tally is a bit misleading. Rowan kept inexplicably shooting deep outside the box. I can't think of many of them being dangerous honestly. They created 4-5 really good chances when they combined but I would be interested in how many of the 40 shots were on frame.

Hopkins is super impressive. Possesses the ball and builds out of the back better then anyone I've seen in a long time.

Edit: looked up shots on goal. 11. Rowan had 42 shots and had 11 on frame. I think a ton were blocked outside the box.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2017, 07:23:02 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
Trinity up 4-0 over Texas Tyler..Some really nice goals in this game...Texas Tyler not sure what is going on

Was there in person ... first half was a clinic.   Second half was not nearly as artistic as the Trinity starters basically sat the rest of the match.   UT-T was without ASC midfielder of the year Leandro Cid Fernandez who according to a parent suffered an injury in final of the ASC championship.     Trinity was also without their star mid, Christian Sakshaug, injured Friday. 

Trinity faces UMHB for the second time this season, the first being a 2-0 win in the season opener.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 12, 2017, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 11, 2017, 09:39:03 PM

Hopkins is super impressive. Possesses the ball and builds out of the back better then anyone I've seen in a long time.


That's exactly what I saw when Hopkins came to Grantham. They were, to be precise, Messiah's mirror image--which is why that game was both so fascinating and yet so frustrating, since neither team actually finished with a score until the final minutes.

Have you ever seen Messiah play live (not streaming, where you never see the whole field), luckylefty? 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 09:41:26 AM
Interesting that at least a few here seemed to think Rowan was going to be the team to advance and knock off Tufts in a huge "revenge" matchup.  My first reaction to the Rowan exit was that a major threat to Tufts is already out of the way, but maybe Johns Hopkins actually will prove to be a more dangerous foe (presuming Tufts gets by the New England tilt drawing a lot of focus versus St Joseph's).

I said I was going to stop talking about Calvin, but one thing I think is notable is how the Knights always manage to up their game in concert with the level of competition.  And they are able to do that without a steady diet of tough games other than a couple at the beginning of the season more than two months ago.  JCU is a formidable, very talented team that was highly motivated and on their own pitch (with a fantastic player playing for his father in a senior season).  Calvin just stays patient trusting that they'll eventually get one, and so a well-played, Elite 8 type game with both teams looking dangerous ends up the way a lot of us probably thought it would....with Calvin walking away victors. 

If we end up getting Calvin vs Chicago, there will be sentiment that Chicago has enough firepower to knock Calvin out.  They do, and they might...but don't bet on it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: luckylefty on November 12, 2017, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 12, 2017, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 11, 2017, 09:39:03 PM

Hopkins is super impressive. Possesses the ball and builds out of the back better then anyone I've seen in a long time.


That's exactly what I saw when Hopkins came to Grantham. They were, to be precise, Messiah's mirror image--which is why that game was both so fascinating and yet so frustrating, since neither team actually finished with a score until the final minutes.

Have you ever seen Messiah play live (not streaming, where you never see the whole field), luckylefty?

I have not unfortunately. Does Messiah always build out of the back though?  The games I've seen on stream they were hitting long goal kicks and punts. Hopkins hit two long goal kicks last night and Desales was trying to actively press them to refuse them the ability to play out of the back.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 12, 2017, 12:07:16 PM
I caught JHU against Dickinson in the Centennial Semi's and I witnessed one of the more ridiculous square passes by JHU wingback that Dickinson which was pressing them hard easily picked off and scored on. If JHU refuses to change when teams press them then they will not be going very far. Good teams will punish that
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 12, 2017, 02:00:31 PM
Elsewhere, at 26:45 of the Oneonta v UR match we have a PK..A make..Ref calls it off for a UR player jumping early..PK retaken..UR misses..then a brawl..crowd gets fired up...0-0 Halftime
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 12, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
Well now, UR 1-0 up on Oneonta. 👀
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 12, 2017, 02:29:42 PM
Oneonta ties it 1-1 off a set piece. Game on.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 12, 2017, 02:44:24 PM
Rochester back up 2-1! Wow.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: jknezek on November 12, 2017, 03:06:44 PM
W&L and Ogelthorpe tied at 3 heading to OT. W&L led 3 times and the Petrals pegged them back quickly each time.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:10:14 PM
NESCAC too many bids?  SUNYAC is gone.

And all 3 teams had home field.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:14:03 PM
Of course in another 10 minutes the NESCAC might be done.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 12, 2017, 03:14:24 PM
UR is always a tough outfit that never pays the opponent too much respect. Congrats to the Yellowjackets on their first Sweet 16 since 2013.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Upstatesoc on November 12, 2017, 03:30:30 PM
UR keeper stops Oneonta's SUNYAC All-State Santangelo PK with about minute left to secure UR win. Good job, Jackets.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: jknezek on November 12, 2017, 03:36:24 PM
W&L and Ogelthorpe go to PKs. It's been a very good game. Ogelthorpe's center backs are huge and have pretty much cleaned up anything in the air. Overall, in the parts I've seen, I'd give a slight edge to Ogelthorpe for play, but it really has been a very even and entertaining match.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:46:16 PM
THese are good takes and good saves.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
Wow...that's tough...the kid who didn't play misses in round 7.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: jknezek on November 12, 2017, 03:50:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:46:16 PM
THese are good takes and good saves.

Yes. The W&L keeper made an amazing save in round 3 I think. One of the best I've seen. W&L goes through 5-4 in 7 rounds of the penalty shoot out. I hate ending a game that way but I'm happy to see my Generals go on. I hoped they would win both at home and they have. Anything more is a big bonus to this season for me.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 12, 2017, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
Wow...that's tough...the kid who didn't play misses in round 7.

Why do coaches continually make this error...NEVER send a kid that is cold to take a PK..NEVER
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:58:43 PM
Yeah, that a great save of a near-perfect PK.

Now my favorite D3 network! Lynchburg.  Real commercials.  Dramatic intros.  Joe Hurtzler.

And the woman sideline reporter for up close and personal insights.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on November 12, 2017, 03:59:43 PM
St. Thomas advances 1-0 over Loras in a tough match.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 12, 2017, 04:02:06 PM
Yes...This is unreal...What a stark contrast to our friends in Medford..I like Emory in games I have seen them
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 12, 2017, 04:04:24 PM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 12, 2017, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 12, 2017, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 11, 2017, 09:39:03 PM

Hopkins is super impressive. Possesses the ball and builds out of the back better then anyone I've seen in a long time.


That's exactly what I saw when Hopkins came to Grantham. They were, to be precise, Messiah's mirror image--which is why that game was both so fascinating and yet so frustrating, since neither team actually finished with a score until the final minutes.

Have you ever seen Messiah play live (not streaming, where you never see the whole field), luckylefty?

I have not unfortunately. Does Messiah always build out of the back though?  The games I've seen on stream they were hitting long goal kicks and punts. Hopkins hit two long goal kicks last night and Desales was trying to actively press them to refuse them the ability to play out of the back.

Messiah usually builds from the back. Under Brandt they almost never counterattacked, despite having lots of team speed. McCarty is more willing to counterattack, but under both coaches the goal is significantly to out-possess the opposition (not accomplished vs JHU, in a rare exception) and heavily to out-shoot them as well.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 12, 2017, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
Wow...that's tough...the kid who didn't play misses in round 7.

Why do coaches continually make this error...NEVER send a kid that is cold to take a PK..NEVER

But he was "fresh" as a daisy. Well rested for that one boot.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 04:29:59 PM
I know I'm being a little hyperbolic but this whole Lynchburg production is well done, especially for D3.  If you have 10 minutes to waste stick with the halftime break with the commercial of Hurtzler strolling around the Lynchburg pitch at night by himself.

Falconer, I love the the rapport we've gradually developed but I'll jump in front of you and praise the Messiah television network which is also well done but not at this level.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 05:40:44 PM
this years tournament is upset city! down goes loras, oneonta, cortland, LYCOMING, rowan. and amherst getting away with another one
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Upstatesoc on November 12, 2017, 05:56:49 PM
Second round teams deserve to be there. If you are 'favorite' prove it and put lower seeds away early, don't let 'em hang around. One mistake you may be done.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: Upstatesoc on November 12, 2017, 05:56:49 PM
Second round teams deserve to be there. If you are 'favorite' prove it and put lower seeds away early, don't let 'em hang around. One mistake you may be done.

i'm all for it and they definitely deserve it. just saying the "favorites" all lost
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 12, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
North Park up 3-nil to UW Platteville inside the first 20 minutes. #40 for NPU pulling the strings with a goal and assist, very composed he is only a sophomore.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 06:41:16 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 12, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
North Park up 3-nil to UW Platteville inside the first 20 minutes. #40 for NPU pulling the strings with a goal and assist, very composed he is only a sophomore.

oh boy did North Park show up tonight. John's Hopkins controlling the game, the most exciting part was the announcer accidentally claiming he knows how it feels to get smacked by balls in the face before after a JH player took a clearance to the face.  Sports balls of course.

anyone watching Newark?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 08:07:45 PM
Hobarts defense is holding their own against Messiah but their attack is almost nonexistent against the Falcons.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 12, 2017, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 12, 2017, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 12, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
Wow...that's tough...the kid who didn't play misses in round 7.

Why do coaches continually make this error...NEVER send a kid that is cold to take a PK..NEVER

But he was "fresh" as a daisy. Well rested for that one boot.

Just gonna chime in that it is absolutely correct that putting a guy/gal in to pretty much just take a PK is a very bad move. Unless they have ice in the veins, the pressure is like a FG kicker trying to hit a game winner... And those guys train for that their whole career. Soccer players will have that situation maybe 2 or 3 times in their lives... maybe.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 08:07:45 PM
Hobarts defense is holding their own against Messiah but their attack is almost nonexistent against the Falcons.

The Statesmen managed to hit the crossbar a few minutes ago...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 08:33:17 PM
I tuned into the trinity game right in time 4 goals in 15 minutes I believe. 2-2 20 left
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 08:37:51 PM
mandy hardin just had he most beautiful passing I have ever seen for the 3rd goal to go up 3-2
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 08:49:44 PM
Messiah with the dagger with 40 seconds to play...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 08:49:44 PM
Messiah with the dagger with 40 seconds to play...
[/quote

wow...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
It sounds like the dynamic announcing duo is back in business in the Chicago v Capital game (0-0 at the half)...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:08:34 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
It sounds like the dynamic announcing duo is back in business in the Chicago v Capital game (0-0 at the half)...


i wanted to break my phone when the messiah announcer kept screaming GOOOOL GOOOOOOOOOL GOOOOOOOL
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 12, 2017, 09:15:51 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:08:34 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
It sounds like the dynamic announcing duo is back in business in the Chicago v Capital game (0-0 at the half)...


i wanted to break my phone when the messiah announcer kept screaming GOOOOL GOOOOOOOOOL GOOOOOOOL

The announcer was from Buff. St. (I'm assuming), not from Messiah.

Thought the game was destined for OT, but a poor clearance of a Nick West cross went right to an open Samuel Ruiz-Plaza, who buried it in the left side of the net.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:22:10 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 12, 2017, 09:15:51 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:08:34 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
It sounds like the dynamic announcing duo is back in business in the Chicago v Capital game (0-0 at the half)...


i wanted to break my phone when the messiah announcer kept screaming GOOOOL GOOOOOOOOOL GOOOOOOOL

The announcer was from Buff. St. (I'm assuming), not from Messiah.

Thought the game was destined for OT, but a poor clearance of a Nick West cross went right to an open Samuel Ruiz-Plaza, who buried it in the left side of the net.

I have no idea why I even said messiah announcer. whoops
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 12, 2017, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 12, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
It sounds like the dynamic announcing duo is back in business in the Chicago v Capital game (0-0 at the half)...

Oh boy
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:33:11 PM
WHAT A GOAL BY CHICAGO
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 12, 2017, 09:37:26 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 09:33:11 PM
WHAT A GOAL BY CHICAGO

Sounds like a banger. Hopefully they'll have it up when I get home.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 12, 2017, 09:46:52 PM
The UAA getting all 4 of their tourney times in the sweet 16. Best conference in the country? I think so.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 10:01:00 PM
down goes Trinity...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 12, 2017, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 10:01:00 PM
down goes Trinity...

What a tourney!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 12, 2017, 10:22:40 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 12, 2017, 06:25:28 PM
North Park up 3-nil to UW Platteville inside the first 20 minutes. #40 for NPU pulling the strings with a goal and assist, very composed he is only a sophomore.

Gustav Ericsson (NPU's #40) finished the night with two goals and two assists. He has some serious skills.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: crufootball on November 12, 2017, 10:37:56 PM
New to this part of the boards, can anybody shed some light to me on how sectional locations are picked?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on November 12, 2017, 11:03:24 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 12, 2017, 10:37:56 PM
New to this part of the boards, can anybody shed some light to me on how sectional locations are picked?

1.). Try to avoid as many flights as possible.  Teams over 500 miles from a sectional site usually have to fly to the location, which the NCAA must pay for the flight.

2.) If all teams are within 500 miles, the team with the highest regional ranking will usually get the host site.  If 2 or more teams are tied with the highest regional ranking, then the team with the better resume usually gets it.

3.) Check the pre-tournament handbook to find out who has priority between women and men for the second weekend. It may turn out that one school has a high enough regional ranking to host sectionals in both tournaments, in which case the handbook will determine who has priority.

For example, Chicago and Mary Hardin Baylor are both ranked #2 in their respective regions-- Central and West, respectively.  Calvin and Emory are also in that sectional.  Calvin is ranked at #4 in the Central, while Emory is #6 in South Atlantic.  Calvin can bus to Chicago, while the other teams have to fly to either Chicago or Texas.  Chicago probably gets that sectional, since only 2 teams will have to fly to that host site vs 3 flights to Texas.

Update-- NCAA has released their men's sectional host sites on the printable bracket.

NCAA has picked North Park, Chicago, Messiah, and Tufts as the sectional site hosts on the men's side for next weekend.

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 01:05:27 AM
That's 6 straight sweet 16 appearances for Brandeis. I'm curious who else has this long (or longer) of a streak going. Calvin? Amherst?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 13, 2017, 01:11:20 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 01:05:27 AM
That's 6 straight sweet 16 appearances for Brandeis. I'm curious who else has this long (or longer) of a streak going. Calvin? Amherst?

Amherst has 8, including this year. No idea about Calvin.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 13, 2017, 02:25:23 AM
i will say this, I feel bad for Trinity. they are a class program and their coach is an amazing guy. Back when the Final Four was in Texas, the Trinity coach opened his field and equipment and let us practice at their stadium when we got there. He also showed up to the Loras game with a box of Under Armour and Gloves and let us use whatever we wanted. they deserve the continued success they have every year and their coach is teaching them the right way to do things
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 13, 2017, 08:15:12 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 12, 2017, 05:40:44 PM
this years tournament is upset city! down goes loras, oneonta, cortland, LYCOMING, rowan. and amherst getting away with another one

I can't say anybody saw this coming. Wow.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 13, 2017, 08:35:39 AM
Loras
Kenyon
John Carroll
Lynchburg
Trinity
Rowan
Lycoming
Newark
Cortland
Oneonta

What a list to not  be going to the Sweet 16  :o
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 08:52:31 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 13, 2017, 08:35:39 AM
Loras
Kenyon
John Carroll
Lynchburg
Trinity
Rowan
Lycoming
Newark
Cortland
Oneonta

What a list to not  be going to the Sweet 16  :o

Biggest surprises in the sweet 16? Stevens institute? M Hardin Baylor? They must be solid teams to win 2 rounds.

Biggest cakewalk to sweet 16...NPU for sure. Only blowout in 2nd round. 12 out of 16 games decided by 1 goal or pk shootout.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:44:20 AM
After the opening weekend of the tournament, my favorites to win the tournament have to be Tufts and then whoever wins the Chicago/Calvin game. Both Chicago and Calvin looked sharp this weekend and those two pitted against each other in the Sweet 16 is a championship-caliber game in itself. Tufts and JHU, battle of the Carolina blues, should be a great matchup as well.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 13, 2017, 09:47:53 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2017, 08:52:31 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 13, 2017, 08:35:39 AM
Loras
Kenyon
John Carroll
Lynchburg
Trinity
Rowan
Lycoming
Newark
Cortland
Oneonta

What a list to not  be going to the Sweet 16  :o

Biggest surprises in the sweet 16? Stevens institute? M Hardin Baylor? They must be solid teams to win 2 rounds.

Biggest cakewalk to sweet 16...NPU for sure. Only blowout in 2nd round. 12 out of 16 games decided by 1 goal or pk shootout.

MH-Baylor actually played very well against Trinity. and Stevens in the sweet 16 is crazy.. messiah is probably ecstatic.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 13, 2017, 10:49:53 AM
I would rate next week games as followed:

chicago vs calvin
tufts vs JH
North Park vs WL
drew vs brandeis
rochester Vs amherst
st. thomas vs Otterbein
Messiah vs stevens
emory vs MHB

3-6 could go either way
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 13, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I'm guessing North Park, Chicago, Tufts, Messiah will be hosting?


Messiah women are at TCNJ

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2017, 11:13:05 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 13, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I'm guessing North Park, Chicago, Tufts, Messiah will be hosting?

Allen has already reported this:

Quote from: deiscanton on November 12, 2017, 11:03:24 PM
NCAA has picked North Park, Chicago, Messiah, and Tufts as the sectional site hosts on the men's side for next weekend.

You can see the host sites when clicking on each round-of-16 match on the ncaa.com interactive bracket.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 13, 2017, 11:20:14 AM
http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2017.pdf

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 13, 2017, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

It is easy to come out and say this after the fact isn't it? Where were you when they knocked off the #1 team in the country last weekend? I didn't see any posts about them being bad then...

I think they were a capable team and worthy of the rankings they had. I watched them multiple times this season and they are as good as anybody else I have watched. They need a few more pieces to be a special team but they by no means were they not impressive this year.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: bestfancle on November 13, 2017, 11:36:40 AM
Watched Calvin games on Friday and Saturday, I was very impressed. I think the winner of Calvin/Chicago will go on to win the whole thing.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 11:52:53 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 13, 2017, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

It is easy to come out and say this after the fact isn't it? Where were you when they knocked off the #1 team in the country last weekend? I didn't see any posts about them being bad then...

I think they were a capable team and worthy of the rankings they had. I watched them multiple times this season and they are as good as anybody else I have watched. They need a few more pieces to be a special team but they by no means were they not impressive this year.

I too think they were worthy of their ranking, but felt the lack of discipline would catch up to them at some point, therefore not giving them a shot to win 6 games in a row against quality sides. The amount of yellows for dissent they had throughout the season were insane and I didn't think their athleticism would outweigh some of their negatives. You're right about me not posting, I had just been reading the discussion and developing my own thoughts. Wasn't meant to be a dig at Lycoming as they obviously have proven to be a perennial powerhouse. Just didn't feel this year's team had the discipline to go the distance.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2017, 11:13:05 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 13, 2017, 11:08:38 AM
I'm guessing North Park, Chicago, Tufts, Messiah will be hosting?

Allen has already reported this:

Quote from: deiscanton on November 12, 2017, 11:03:24 PM
NCAA has picked North Park, Chicago, Messiah, and Tufts as the sectional site hosts on the men's side for next weekend.

You can see the host sites when clicking on each round-of-16 match on the ncaa.com interactive bracket.

Going to try to make the games at Tufts, only 45 min away from me. Hope to catch a few of you there.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 13, 2017, 12:00:29 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 11:58:57 AM
Going to try to make the games at Tufts, only 45 min away from me. Hope to catch a few of you there.

I am local -- Cambridge -- and would love to be there, but have family obligations next weekend. That said, I will definitely be tuning in and keeping up. Enjoy it!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 13, 2017, 01:11:20 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 01:05:27 AM
That's 6 straight sweet 16 appearances for Brandeis. I'm curious who else has this long (or longer) of a streak going. Calvin? Amherst?

Amherst has 8, including this year. No idea about Calvin.

I did some digging and this is Calvin's 3rd straight sweet 16. What a streak for Amherst and Brandeis at 8 and 6 respectively.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on November 13, 2017, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 13, 2017, 12:00:29 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 11:58:57 AM
Going to try to make the games at Tufts, only 45 min away from me. Hope to catch a few of you there.

I am local -- Cambridge -- and would love to be there, but have family obligations next weekend. That said, I will definitely be tuning in and keeping up. Enjoy it!

I am also local, from Boston's southern suburbs, but I also have other obligations on Saturday.  Also, commuter rail does not start Sundays on the Providence/Boston line until 11:20 AM, and the MBTA's Red Line is also doing work on the Longfellow Bridge for the next few weekends.  I will be following the games on-line to keep up.  Enjoy the games!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 13, 2017, 02:22:04 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 13, 2017, 01:11:20 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 01:05:27 AM
That's 6 straight sweet 16 appearances for Brandeis. I'm curious who else has this long (or longer) of a streak going. Calvin? Amherst?

Amherst has 8, including this year. No idea about Calvin.

I did some digging and this is Calvin's 3rd straight sweet 16. What a streak for Amherst and Brandeis at 8 and 6 respectively.

You wouldn't have to do any digging if you read the articles on D3soccer.com!!!   ;)

Check out the seventh item in the article 2017 Tournament Field Factoids (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2017/2017-tournament-field-factoids).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 02:33:08 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 13, 2017, 02:22:04 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 13, 2017, 01:11:20 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 13, 2017, 01:05:27 AM
That's 6 straight sweet 16 appearances for Brandeis. I'm curious who else has this long (or longer) of a streak going. Calvin? Amherst?

Amherst has 8, including this year. No idea about Calvin.

I did some digging and this is Calvin's 3rd straight sweet 16. What a streak for Amherst and Brandeis at 8 and 6 respectively.

You wouldn't have to do any digging if you read the articles on D3soccer.com!!!   ;)

Check out the seventh item in the article 2017 Tournament Field Factoids (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2017/2017-tournament-field-factoids).

Owned :-)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 13, 2017, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 11:52:53 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 13, 2017, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

It is easy to come out and say this after the fact isn't it? Where were you when they knocked off the #1 team in the country last weekend? I didn't see any posts about them being bad then...

I think they were a capable team and worthy of the rankings they had. I watched them multiple times this season and they are as good as anybody else I have watched. They need a few more pieces to be a special team but they by no means were they not impressive this year.

I too think they were worthy of their ranking, but felt the lack of discipline would catch up to them at some point, therefore not giving them a shot to win 6 games in a row against quality sides. The amount of yellows for dissent they had throughout the season were insane and I didn't think their athleticism would outweigh some of their negatives. You're right about me not posting, I had just been reading the discussion and developing my own thoughts. Wasn't meant to be a dig at Lycoming as they obviously have proven to be a perennial powerhouse. Just didn't feel this year's team had the discipline to go the distance.

I don't even know if it was a lack of discipline. They relied on a CB to score a majority of the goals this season. I think they struggled in large part due to a lack of firepower from the offense. Certainly capable of beating anybody on any day but with the amount of parity across the national landscape it is hard to consistently win.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Jim Matson on November 13, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
It will be a great soccer weekend in Chicago. North Park hosts, and Chicago hosts the women (early matches), and the men (late matches).

I doubt that this has ever happened in NCAA soccer history; three sectionals within 20 miles of each other.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 13, 2017, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

Lycoming is very talented--and, as I pointed out, if they get a referee who lets them mug people without throwing cards and doesn't call many ordinary fouls, they can dominate a better team. This is clearly their style, and we have to assume it comes from the top. If however the fouls are being called (as apparently they were vs Drew), they aren't nearly as effective.

As you say, zero discipline. That's plainly obvious to anyone who studies the number of cards they receive (in games officiated competently), especially cards on the bench or individual players for bitching about appropriate calls that they seem to resent. Not to mention cards for outright fighting, such as that given to Tueno near the end of the game vs Drew. He is a splendid all-around player who can beat teams by playing well within the rules. So, why does he do that? It speaks volumes about team discipline and attitude.

Most good teams aren't like this, regardless of how physically they play. They accept that when they foul people, it's likely to be called, and if they take cheap shots they will probably find themselves on the sidelines pretty quickly. If officiating at D3 level were more consistent, even fewer good teams would be like this.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 13, 2017, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 13, 2017, 11:36:40 AM
Watched Calvin games on Friday and Saturday, I was very impressed. I think the winner of Calvin/Chicago will go on to win the whole thing.

I agree--and I think it will be Calvin.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: Jim Matson on November 13, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
It will be a great soccer weekend in Chicago. North Park hosts, and Chicago hosts the women (early matches), and the men (late matches).

I doubt that this has ever happened in NCAA soccer history; three sectionals within 20 miles of each other.

If anyone is of the mind to do such, they can watch half of the entire Sweet Sixteen bracket in person on Saturday without missing anything. You can make it from Foster and Albany (NPU's Hedstrand Field) to 46th and Drexel (the U of C's Stagg Field) in 45 minutes on a Saturday afternoon via Lake Shore Drive, which would give you plenty of time to leave at the end of the second match at NPU and still arrive in time for the start of the first match at the U of C.

I strongly doubt that any Sweet Sixteen bracket in NCAA history, regardless of sport, could make that claim.

Edit: Oops, forgot that the sectional down in Hyde Park is Friday/Saturday instead of Saturday/Sunday, because of Calvin. Well, at least you can watch two Sweet Sixteen matches and an Elite Eight match in one day.  ;)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 09:43:29 PM
As far as the Sweet 16 we have some intriguing matchups. I am most curious about Hopkins and Tufts. I have only seen Hopkins for the 1st Half against Dickinson in the Centennial Conference Semi-Finals. Obviously not a lot for me to work with. What I saw in that half was the ball on the carpet a ton. I have noted I saw more than enough square balls in the back and one that Dickinson picked off and scored on. If that is how Hopkins is going to play v Tufts I think that will spell trouble. Is Hopkins willing to change their style just a bit to relieve pressure from Tufts relentless pressure. If they are not willing to change and start forcing passes on the carpet then Tufts will be pressing like mad and cause numerous giveaway's that will lead to goals. Has anyone seen Hopkins more than once? If so, were the team they playing against pressing them like a Lycoming would? A couple of players to watch for? I need a scout.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 11:08:12 PM
Looking at the 4 Quads still left in the NCAA's I would still say the Midwest is the weaker of the 4. However, Messiah's Northeast bracket would be a close 2nd. After watching Stevens and Middlebury on Saturday I was not impressed with Stevens as a dangerous threat. They escaped Middlebury who deserved to win that match had they been able to finish. I have no idea how Stevens played Cortland but they obviously got the job done somehow. I was not overly impressed with Cortland when I saw them beat Hobart. They were a solid team but nothing jumped out at me as a Final 4 contender. I would have been interested in a Middlebury at Messiah matchup as that would have been a complete contrast in styles. The way Midd had been playing the past month or so I would have given them a decent shot at getting thru. As it is,I think Messiah will easily handle Stevens especially at Home an then take on the winner of a UR v Amherst game. Amherst is still very young and I get the feeling UR is one of those inconsistent teams in which you never know what outfit will show up on the day. ConnCollege had them beat but totally blew it in the 81st minute and then lost it in OT. Still for UR to win at Oneonta the next day is impressive. Watching Amherst onMessiah;s wide field will be fun but I expect UR and Amherst to beat up on each other on Saturday with a well rested Messiah waiting. Still this is not the dominant Messiah of years past and can be had if you play them the right way and have a solid day. At this point I would have to say Calvin has to be the favorite to win the whole thing. They look like they are on a mission and they do not care who is in the way. They want that 1st Championship.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 11:17:01 PM
Just caught the highlight of Messiah's winner against Hobart. That is really tough for Hobart. That ball had to be dealt with better. Very unfortunate.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 07:51:55 AM
What in the world is with the Buff State announcer and his "gooooooooooooooooooool" call? >:(
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: franklyspeaking on November 14, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Be happy there is an announcer, many have poor feeds and no sound.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: franklyspeaking on November 14, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Be happy there is an announcer, many have poor feeds and no sound.

Au contraire — I'll take silence over that noise (in that particular instance). On the whole, though, I suppose you're right.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2017, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

Lycoming is very talented--and, as I pointed out, if they get a referee who lets them mug people without throwing cards and doesn't call many ordinary fouls, they can dominate a better team. This is clearly their style, and we have to assume it comes from the top. If however the fouls are being called (as apparently they were vs Drew), they aren't nearly as effective.

As you say, zero discipline. That's plainly obvious to anyone who studies the number of cards they receive (in games officiated competently), especially cards on the bench or individual players for bitching about appropriate calls that they seem to resent. Not to mention cards for outright fighting, such as that given to Tueno near the end of the game vs Drew. He is a splendid all-around player who can beat teams by playing well within the rules. So, why does he do that? It speaks volumes about team discipline and attitude.

Most good teams aren't like this, regardless of how physically they play. They accept that when they foul people, it's likely to be called, and if they take cheap shots they will probably find themselves on the sidelines pretty quickly. If officiating at D3 level were more consistent, even fewer good teams would be like this.

I want to start this post by saying I do agree with a majority of your post but I will point out that the officials could have doubled the foul count of that game. It was a poorly officiated game from all aspects of the game. I disagree with "zero discipline" comment though and judging that solely off card accumulation totals.   

Surprisingly it was Drew who lacked discipline and were the more aggressive team this time. And if you would like to say it starts at the top then look no further than the Drew HC who got a red card for dissent. I don't believe there were any cards for dissent on Lycoming in this match, only on Drew which happened twice. Fouls were pretty even in this game so to say one was more dirty than the other can't apply in this game. Drew also had more cards in this game.

Sure you can reference cards for dissent etc but I watched quite a few games of Lycoming this year and I do not really recall too many times they received cards for a "lack of discipline" as you phrase it. Did they receive cards for fouls? Of course and plenty of them but if I had to guess maybe only 3 or 4 cards for dissent all year at least from the from games I watched. That's fairly normal for most teams I watched around this region and throughout the country. Drew has 31 cards this year and Dickinson has 37 but nobody has complained about either of those teams or classified them as "borderline dirty." Why such a stigma for one team but not others that have similar card counts?

Lycoming had 37 cards this year and their opponents had 30 which is a similar ratio. They had 2 reds and their opponents had 3. Hard to say they were better or worst in that department compared to the teams they faced this year. For comparison, Lycoming had 36 yellow cards in 2016 which was their worst season in the last half decade, 43 in 2015 when they went to the 3rd round of NCAA's, 33 in 2014 when they lost in the conference finals, and 28 in 2013 when they went to the 2nd round of NCAA's. A majority of these cards come from playing a high pressure/intensity game and as a result of that they can get caught and foul the opponent and sometimes end up getting a yellow card. It's soccer, it's going to happen. To further emphasize this point, Lycoming isn't even in the top 20 in the country for # of cards this year and they played more games then most other teams. I have never really understood the arguments on this message board in terms of fouls and cards etc. I enjoyed the one post from earlier in the year which referenced OWU's coach (I think) stating that if they are losing in fouls they are most likely losing the game. It seems Lycoming plays to that mindset and there is nothing wrong with it or playing high pressure and physical. When it becomes dirty then complaining is justifiable but when they pick up a yellow for a hard tackle that they were half a second late for let's not get too carried away.   
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 09:05:09 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: franklyspeaking on November 14, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Be happy there is an announcer, many have poor feeds and no sound.

Au contraire — I'll take silence over that noise (in that particular instance). On the whole, though, I suppose you're right.

Computers and phones still have mute buttons these days right?  ;)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 09:05:09 AM
Computers and phones still have mute buttons these days right?  ;)

Quite familiar!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 11:17:01 PM
Just caught the highlight of Messiah's winner against Hobart. That is really tough for Hobart. That ball had to be dealt with better. Very unfortunate.

A first impression would lead one to say that the keeper dealt with that shot poorly, since it beat him to the short side, the opening wasn't very large, and the shot came from about 18 yards out. However, if you replay it (look for the clip in Messiah's recap), you can make a case that the keeper was at least partially screened from the shooter, so he doesn't react as quickly as you would expect from a skilled veteran on an excellent side (which he is). I think that's what happened.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 09:29:34 AM
Not to mention that Ruiz Plaza's shot was a rocket, by far the best shot Messiah took all night. The keeper might have mishandled it even if he got to it. He should shoot more, IMO. He gets open looks from outside or just inside the box quite often, but rarely pulls the trigger. Obviously that shot was taken instinctively when he got a fortuitous bounce--right decision.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: oldonionbag on November 14, 2017, 09:41:03 AM
Falconer - I agree wholeheartedly. That was an absolute rip! Watching it several times, I don't think the keeper stood a chance, even if he had a clean look. Tough way to lose for Hobart but take nothing away from the strike by Ruiz.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 14, 2017, 09:42:01 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 09:29:34 AM
Not to mention that Ruiz Plaza's shot was a rocket, by far the best shot Messiah took all night. The keeper might have mishandled it even if he got to it. He should shoot more, IMO. He gets open looks from outside or just inside the box quite often, but rarely pulls the trigger. Obviously that shot was taken instinctively when he got a fortuitous bounce--right decision.

I don't think that the GK had too much of a chance on that shot.  Like you said, it was a rocket.

The touch Hobart wants back is the one by the defender who sticks his foot out and basically gives Ruiz-Plaza a one touch pass.  He should have just cleared it OB to the far side.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: franklyspeaking on November 14, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Be happy there is an announcer, many have poor feeds and no sound.

Au contraire — I'll take silence over that noise (in that particular instance). On the whole, though, I suppose you're right.

I said this exact same thing LOL
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 09:05:09 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: franklyspeaking on November 14, 2017, 08:04:14 AM
Be happy there is an announcer, many have poor feeds and no sound.

Au contraire — I'll take silence over that noise (in that particular instance). On the whole, though, I suppose you're right.

Computers and phones still have mute buttons these days right?  ;)

For those of us who are unable to watch the games in peace without distractions and interruptions (four kids 6 and under will do that!), having an announcer to listen to while having to turn your attention (and eyes) away from the game, maybe even go into other rooms, is very helpful.  Likewise when trying to multi-task.  You can always mute an announcer you don't like, but there's no way to listen to an announcer that doesn't exist.

The Buffalo St. announcer got overly excited any time it even looked like a player was going to try to shoot.  Name and mastery of Spanish suggested a Hispanic background and his excitability was consistent with the style of announcing that predominates throughout Latin America. He did great with (and seemed to derive great joy from saying) names like Ruiz Plaza, Alejos, etc. even if the abrupt change of accent isn't as smooth on the ears.  (side note: having lived in Brazil for several years, I've repeatedly experienced this in reverse where the Brazilian announcers break their native accent to say an American, English, etc. name leaving me both (a) impressed with the skill to accurately switch accents for a single word (name) while talking a mile a minute, and (b) finding it a little jolting to the ear.)  On the goal call, the announcer just seemed to be trying a little too hard to mimic the goal calls that you'd hear from announcers throughout Latin America.

I can only imagine what people have thought the few times I have stepped in to do play-by-play or color commentary for broadcasts.  Of course, I don't have a lick of training or education or background in this field, so going in I know I'm not going to measure up very well and can only hope that more people are thinking that "any announcer is better than no announcer" instead of thinking that "silence would be better than having to listen to this guy".
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 11:04:21 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
For those of us who are unable to watch the games in peace without distractions and interruptions (four kids 6 and under will do that!), having an announcer to listen to while having to turn your attention (and eyes) away from the game, maybe even go into other rooms, is very helpful.  Likewise when trying to multi-task.  You can always mute an announcer you don't like, but there's no way to listen to an announcer that doesn't exist.

The Buffalo St. announcer got overly excited any time it even looked like a player was going to try to shoot.  Name and mastery of Spanish suggested a Hispanic background and his excitability was consistent with the style of announcing that predominates throughout Latin America. He did great with (and seemed to derive great joy from saying) names like Ruiz Plaza, Alejos, etc. even if the abrupt change of accent isn't as smooth on the ears.  (side note: having lived in Brazil for several years, I've repeatedly experienced this in reverse where the Brazilian announcers break their native accent to say an American, English, etc. name leaving me both (a) impressed with the skill to accurately switch accents for a single word (name) while talking a mile a minute, and (b) finding it a little jolting to the ear.)  On the goal call, the announcer just seemed to be trying a little too hard to mimic the goal calls that you'd hear from announcers throughout Latin America.

I can only imagine what people have thought the few times I have stepped in to do play-by-play or color commentary for broadcasts.  Of course, I don't have a lick of training or education or background in this field, so going in I know I'm not going to measure up very well and can only hope that more people are thinking that "any announcer is better than no announcer" instead of thinking that "silence would be better than having to listen to this guy".

I think this is mainly what I was trying to get at. I understand it can be very helpful to have things on in the background, as it's not possible to watch every second of every game -- I am quite guilty of switching tabs when it seems like there's nothing going on, and use the announcer to know when I should be getting back. (Of course, I've missed goals, as sometimes they happen quicker than the announcer can say, and I take full responsibility for that.) So I am grateful for announcers in those circumstances.

That said, I've heard this Buff. St. announcer before, particularly on his call of the goal from the Rochester game, and it just seems that he is trying wayyyyyyyyyy too hard with the "golllllllllllll" schtick, and it seems that he does so in other clips. Considering these are usually the highlights that are presented, rather than run-of-the-mill commentary, perhaps my perspective is distorted and he isn't like that all of the time, but perhaps you can see where I'm coming from. And while all of this might make me sound like a "get off my lawn" curmudgeon, I promise I do like to see people having fun on broadcasts, and I recognize one person's idea of fun may be different than others. I would even say that the call is funny (if I had to hear it just once). That said, there are certain things that I'd rather tune out, and this is one of them (perhaps a moot point since Buff. St. is out).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 14, 2017, 11:10:33 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 11:04:21 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
For those of us who are unable to watch the games in peace without distractions and interruptions (four kids 6 and under will do that!), having an announcer to listen to while having to turn your attention (and eyes) away from the game, maybe even go into other rooms, is very helpful.  Likewise when trying to multi-task.  You can always mute an announcer you don't like, but there's no way to listen to an announcer that doesn't exist.

The Buffalo St. announcer got overly excited any time it even looked like a player was going to try to shoot.  Name and mastery of Spanish suggested a Hispanic background and his excitability was consistent with the style of announcing that predominates throughout Latin America. He did great with (and seemed to derive great joy from saying) names like Ruiz Plaza, Alejos, etc. even if the abrupt change of accent isn't as smooth on the ears.  (side note: having lived in Brazil for several years, I've repeatedly experienced this in reverse where the Brazilian announcers break their native accent to say an American, English, etc. name leaving me both (a) impressed with the skill to accurately switch accents for a single word (name) while talking a mile a minute, and (b) finding it a little jolting to the ear.)  On the goal call, the announcer just seemed to be trying a little too hard to mimic the goal calls that you'd hear from announcers throughout Latin America.

I can only imagine what people have thought the few times I have stepped in to do play-by-play or color commentary for broadcasts.  Of course, I don't have a lick of training or education or background in this field, so going in I know I'm not going to measure up very well and can only hope that more people are thinking that "any announcer is better than no announcer" instead of thinking that "silence would be better than having to listen to this guy".

I think this is mainly what I was trying to get at. I understand it can be very helpful to have things on in the background, as it's not possible to watch every second of every game -- I am quite guilty of switching tabs when it seems like there's nothing going on, and use the announcer to know when I should be getting back. (Of course, I've missed goals, as sometimes they happen quicker than the announcer can say, and I take full responsibility for that.) So I am grateful for announcers in those circumstances.

That said, I've heard this Buff. St. announcer before, particularly on his call of the goal from the Rochester game, and it just seems that he is trying wayyyyyyyyyy too hard with the "golllllllllllll" schtick, and it seems that he does so in other clips. Considering these are usually the highlights that are presented, rather than run-of-the-mill commentary, perhaps my perspective is distorted and he isn't like that all of the time, but perhaps you can see where I'm coming from. And while all of this might make me sound like a "get off my lawn" curmudgeon, I promise I do like to see people having fun on broadcasts, and I recognize one person's idea of fun may be different than others. I would even say that the call is funny (if I had to hear it just once). That said, there are certain things that I'd rather tune out, and this is one of them (perhaps a moot point since Buff. St. is out).

I appreciated the guys enthusiasm. Not dull at all like many announcers I have heard.  I hate total silence..put a friggin mic on the field at least if no  commentator.  And clearly the goal call was from his Hispanic heritage. Hear that all the time watching the Spanish soccer games. Good fun. Also considering neither team.playing was the home team he did his best to get the names of the players on both sides.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 11:32:54 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2017, 11:10:33 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 11:04:21 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
For those of us who are unable to watch the games in peace without distractions and interruptions (four kids 6 and under will do that!), having an announcer to listen to while having to turn your attention (and eyes) away from the game, maybe even go into other rooms, is very helpful.  Likewise when trying to multi-task.  You can always mute an announcer you don't like, but there's no way to listen to an announcer that doesn't exist.

The Buffalo St. announcer got overly excited any time it even looked like a player was going to try to shoot.  Name and mastery of Spanish suggested a Hispanic background and his excitability was consistent with the style of announcing that predominates throughout Latin America. He did great with (and seemed to derive great joy from saying) names like Ruiz Plaza, Alejos, etc. even if the abrupt change of accent isn't as smooth on the ears.  (side note: having lived in Brazil for several years, I've repeatedly experienced this in reverse where the Brazilian announcers break their native accent to say an American, English, etc. name leaving me both (a) impressed with the skill to accurately switch accents for a single word (name) while talking a mile a minute, and (b) finding it a little jolting to the ear.)  On the goal call, the announcer just seemed to be trying a little too hard to mimic the goal calls that you'd hear from announcers throughout Latin America.

I can only imagine what people have thought the few times I have stepped in to do play-by-play or color commentary for broadcasts.  Of course, I don't have a lick of training or education or background in this field, so going in I know I'm not going to measure up very well and can only hope that more people are thinking that "any announcer is better than no announcer" instead of thinking that "silence would be better than having to listen to this guy".

I think this is mainly what I was trying to get at. I understand it can be very helpful to have things on in the background, as it's not possible to watch every second of every game -- I am quite guilty of switching tabs when it seems like there's nothing going on, and use the announcer to know when I should be getting back. (Of course, I've missed goals, as sometimes they happen quicker than the announcer can say, and I take full responsibility for that.) So I am grateful for announcers in those circumstances.

That said, I've heard this Buff. St. announcer before, particularly on his call of the goal from the Rochester game, and it just seems that he is trying wayyyyyyyyyy too hard with the "golllllllllllll" schtick, and it seems that he does so in other clips. Considering these are usually the highlights that are presented, rather than run-of-the-mill commentary, perhaps my perspective is distorted and he isn't like that all of the time, but perhaps you can see where I'm coming from. And while all of this might make me sound like a "get off my lawn" curmudgeon, I promise I do like to see people having fun on broadcasts, and I recognize one person's idea of fun may be different than others. I would even say that the call is funny (if I had to hear it just once). That said, there are certain things that I'd rather tune out, and this is one of them (perhaps a moot point since Buff. St. is out).

I appreciated the guys enthusiasm. Not dull at all like many announcers I have heard.  I hate total silence..put a friggin mic on the field at least if no  commentator.  And clearly the goal call was from his Hispanic heritage. Hear that all the time watching the Spanish soccer games. Good fun. Also considering neither team.playing was the home team he did his best to get the names of the players on both sides.

Just imagine, a decade ago this discussion wouldn't have been possible!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 14, 2017, 11:34:42 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2017, 11:10:33 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 11:04:21 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
For those of us who are unable to watch the games in peace without distractions and interruptions (four kids 6 and under will do that!), having an announcer to listen to while having to turn your attention (and eyes) away from the game, maybe even go into other rooms, is very helpful.  Likewise when trying to multi-task.  You can always mute an announcer you don't like, but there's no way to listen to an announcer that doesn't exist.

The Buffalo St. announcer got overly excited any time it even looked like a player was going to try to shoot.  Name and mastery of Spanish suggested a Hispanic background and his excitability was consistent with the style of announcing that predominates throughout Latin America. He did great with (and seemed to derive great joy from saying) names like Ruiz Plaza, Alejos, etc. even if the abrupt change of accent isn't as smooth on the ears.  (side note: having lived in Brazil for several years, I've repeatedly experienced this in reverse where the Brazilian announcers break their native accent to say an American, English, etc. name leaving me both (a) impressed with the skill to accurately switch accents for a single word (name) while talking a mile a minute, and (b) finding it a little jolting to the ear.)  On the goal call, the announcer just seemed to be trying a little too hard to mimic the goal calls that you'd hear from announcers throughout Latin America.

I can only imagine what people have thought the few times I have stepped in to do play-by-play or color commentary for broadcasts.  Of course, I don't have a lick of training or education or background in this field, so going in I know I'm not going to measure up very well and can only hope that more people are thinking that "any announcer is better than no announcer" instead of thinking that "silence would be better than having to listen to this guy".

I think this is mainly what I was trying to get at. I understand it can be very helpful to have things on in the background, as it's not possible to watch every second of every game -- I am quite guilty of switching tabs when it seems like there's nothing going on, and use the announcer to know when I should be getting back. (Of course, I've missed goals, as sometimes they happen quicker than the announcer can say, and I take full responsibility for that.) So I am grateful for announcers in those circumstances.

That said, I've heard this Buff. St. announcer before, particularly on his call of the goal from the Rochester game, and it just seems that he is trying wayyyyyyyyyy too hard with the "golllllllllllll" schtick, and it seems that he does so in other clips. Considering these are usually the highlights that are presented, rather than run-of-the-mill commentary, perhaps my perspective is distorted and he isn't like that all of the time, but perhaps you can see where I'm coming from. And while all of this might make me sound like a "get off my lawn" curmudgeon, I promise I do like to see people having fun on broadcasts, and I recognize one person's idea of fun may be different than others. I would even say that the call is funny (if I had to hear it just once). That said, there are certain things that I'd rather tune out, and this is one of them (perhaps a moot point since Buff. St. is out).

I appreciated the guys enthusiasm. Not dull at all like many announcers I have heard.  I hate total silence..put a friggin mic on the field at least if no  commentator.  And clearly the goal call was from his Hispanic heritage. Hear that all the time watching the Spanish soccer games. Good fun. Also considering neither team.playing was the home team he did his best to get the names of the players on both sides.

I also thought he did a good job overall.   He was definitely into the game.  I also like it when he rolled the R in Ruiz-Plaza.

But, I thought the GOOOOOOOOOOL call was over the top.  Might be ok for a home goal in a regular season Buff St. game, but not so good for a tournament game. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 11:37:41 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 11:32:54 AM
Just imagine, a decade ago this discussion wouldn't have been possible!

Question: when did colleges -- Messiah, for example -- start doing broadcasts (whether audio or video)? I must admit I am quite spoiled having started following D3 soccer in 2010 and generally having access to some way to follow the game beyond the livestats, but I recognize that this has not always been the case. (And when did live stats come around?)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2017, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

Lycoming is very talented--and, as I pointed out, if they get a referee who lets them mug people without throwing cards and doesn't call many ordinary fouls, they can dominate a better team. This is clearly their style, and we have to assume it comes from the top. If however the fouls are being called (as apparently they were vs Drew), they aren't nearly as effective.

As you say, zero discipline. That's plainly obvious to anyone who studies the number of cards they receive (in games officiated competently), especially cards on the bench or individual players for bitching about appropriate calls that they seem to resent. Not to mention cards for outright fighting, such as that given to Tueno near the end of the game vs Drew. He is a splendid all-around player who can beat teams by playing well within the rules. So, why does he do that? It speaks volumes about team discipline and attitude.

Most good teams aren't like this, regardless of how physically they play. They accept that when they foul people, it's likely to be called, and if they take cheap shots they will probably find themselves on the sidelines pretty quickly. If officiating at D3 level were more consistent, even fewer good teams would be like this.

I want to start this post by saying I do agree with a majority of your post but I will point out that the officials could have doubled the foul count of that game. It was a poorly officiated game from all aspects of the game. I disagree with "zero discipline" comment though and judging that solely off card accumulation totals.   

Surprisingly it was Drew who lacked discipline and were the more aggressive team this time. And if you would like to say it starts at the top then look no further than the Drew HC who got a red card for dissent. I don't believe there were any cards for dissent on Lycoming in this match, only on Drew which happened twice. Fouls were pretty even in this game so to say one was more dirty than the other can't apply in this game. Drew also had more cards in this game.

Sure you can reference cards for dissent etc but I watched quite a few games of Lycoming this year and I do not really recall too many times they received cards for a "lack of discipline" as you phrase it. Did they receive cards for fouls? Of course and plenty of them but if I had to guess maybe only 3 or 4 cards for dissent all year at least from the from games I watched. That's fairly normal for most teams I watched around this region and throughout the country. Drew has 31 cards this year and Dickinson has 37 but nobody has complained about either of those teams or classified them as "borderline dirty." Why such a stigma for one team but not others that have similar card counts?

Lycoming had 37 cards this year and their opponents had 30 which is a similar ratio. They had 2 reds and their opponents had 3. Hard to say they were better or worst in that department compared to the teams they faced this year. For comparison, Lycoming had 36 yellow cards in 2016 which was their worst season in the last half decade, 43 in 2015 when they went to the 3rd round of NCAA's, 33 in 2014 when they lost in the conference finals, and 28 in 2013 when they went to the 2nd round of NCAA's. A majority of these cards come from playing a high pressure/intensity game and as a result of that they can get caught and foul the opponent and sometimes end up getting a yellow card. It's soccer, it's going to happen. To further emphasize this point, Lycoming isn't even in the top 20 in the country for # of cards this year and they played more games then most other teams. I have never really understood the arguments on this message board in terms of fouls and cards etc. I enjoyed the one post from earlier in the year which referenced OWU's coach (I think) stating that if they are losing in fouls they are most likely losing the game. It seems Lycoming plays to that mindset and there is nothing wrong with it or playing high pressure and physical. When it becomes dirty then complaining is justifiable but when they pick up a yellow for a hard tackle that they were half a second late for let's not get too carried away.

MAF: I didn't see this game at all, and I accept your account of it. Thank you for the detailed summary, which is appreciated.

As for my comments about chippy play, I certainly leveled that charge at Lycoming recently, but I haven't singled them out. I often complain about chippiness in games that I've seen in person or over a high quality stream. That is one of my two biggest complaints about D3 soccer; the other one is the great disparity in quality and type of playing surfaces (which isn't the topic here). Usually I connect my comments with poor officiating--which is exactly I what I said in my analysis of the MAC Commonwealth title game. Sometimes officials can't be blamed for chippiness: they call most of the fouls and card the ones that should be carded, yet the number of fouls is still very high b/c that's how a team plays. But, IMO, competent officiating keeps the number of fouls lower and minimizes chippiness as a general rule. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but it lies behind my complaints.

Fouls per se are obviously related to physical play, but most fouls are not cheap shots, so cards are a much better indicator. Every team will collect some fouls, every year--that's almost universally true, although if someone wants me to show them an exception I think could do that. Even the most disciplined teams will receive cards for mistimed tackles, for example. But, disciplined teams should get almost no fouls for complaining. Almost none, and many years none at all, and almost never a red for complaining. It's their own fault, no one else's, if they receive non-negligible numbers of them.

Would you agree with these thoughts, MAF?

An extreme example of having no discipline, noticed by many, was the infamous MSU-RUN game last year: http://montclairathletics.com/boxscore.aspx?path=&id=7422

As you say, Lycoming received 37 Yellows this year--and three reds. Their average of 1.68 YCG is at the top of the MAC Commonweath, but not by a large margin. Two bottom dwellers (Stevenson and Albright) were fairly close in that category, and over the years I've seen some players from one of those two clubs (I won't say which one) make extremely dangerous plays against Messiah that in some instances resulted in straight reds. The better Commonwealth teams this year were well below Lycoming in this statistic. LVC came in at .95, Arcadia at .67, and Messiah at .32. Just one season's numbers, of course, but it would be easy to look back for more comparisons.

By comparison, the Midwest Conference (which isn't very good overall) had two teams close to Lycoming in YCG (Lawrence and Illinois College) and one greatly exceeding Lyco (Knox, the national leader in total cards, comes in with 2.55). I picked that conference without knowing a thing about any of the teams and I had no idea what I'd get. On the other hand, if we compare the NJAC numbers, where I expect to see high YCG based on their reputation, that's exactly what we find: Kean at 2.00, RUC at 1.91, followed by three more teams between 1.43 and 1.56. The two best teams this year, Rowan and RUN, were well below Lyco at 1.36 and 1.21 respectively. The NESCAC doesn't calculate YCG, but the largest number of YC is 21 in 18 games for Amherst, a team that some here have said can be chippy or bitchy--I have not said that myself since I almost never get to see them play, but others have certainly said such things. By comparison, Tufts (said to be a side that can play very physically, but I don't recall anyone complaining about chippiness) has just 14 yellows in 19 games.

Nationally I can't find a # for YCG, just an overall total from the NCAA. Lycoming comes in this week tied for 21st with 36 yellows (perhaps this difference of one from the conference stats is a clerical error)--just outside the top 20 (the group you picked for comparison). If the number is really 37 they would be in the top 20. They are tied for 22nd (with many others, including Drew) in total reds with 3.

I recall data in previous years being roughly similar.

To sum up, I do think Lyco has been a chippy team in recent seasons, but I do not by any means single them out. I comment on this aspect whenever I see it, regardless of which teams are playing. IMO, cards are a relevant indicator, since many of them do not involve unintentional late tackles or badly executed tackles that otherwise would be clean plays. They tend to involve deliberate fouling--something that should be called in each and every instance, IMO, b/c if not called the games can easily get out of hand, people can be hurt, and the team doing it is obtaining an unfair advantage (that is, an advantage not resulting from superior talent or better strategy or making better plays).

Sorry for the long song and dance. I'll try to give this pet peeve a rest now.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 11:45:25 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 11:17:01 PM
Just caught the highlight of Messiah's winner against Hobart. That is really tough for Hobart. That ball had to be dealt with better. Very unfortunate.

A first impression would lead one to say that the keeper dealt with that shot poorly, since it beat him to the short side, the opening wasn't very large, and the shot came from about 18 yards out. However, if you replay it (look for the clip in Messiah's recap), you can make a case that the keeper was at least partially screened from the shooter, so he doesn't react as quickly as you would expect from a skilled veteran on an excellent side (which he is). I think that's what happened.


I am not talking about the GK. I am talking about the defender. With under a minute remaining the defender must clear that out. You can even make a case that the CB coming over to help his wingback out after the wingback got burned should have closed that faster as to not allow even the cross to get hit.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2017, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2017, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: NESCAC43 on November 13, 2017, 09:35:18 AM
Was anyone else not that impressed w/ Lycoming throughout the season? Saw them 3 times and each time I thought the same thing; solid team with great athleticism but ZERO discipline. Although CWRU is a good side and is probably the best team in the country that is never ranked, that loss against them showed me what I had been thinking the whole time was in fact correct. I have been far from perfect with my predictions for the tournament, specifically with Rowan, but to me, this Lycoming side never had a shot.

Lycoming is very talented--and, as I pointed out, if they get a referee who lets them mug people without throwing cards and doesn't call many ordinary fouls, they can dominate a better team. This is clearly their style, and we have to assume it comes from the top. If however the fouls are being called (as apparently they were vs Drew), they aren't nearly as effective.

As you say, zero discipline. That's plainly obvious to anyone who studies the number of cards they receive (in games officiated competently), especially cards on the bench or individual players for bitching about appropriate calls that they seem to resent. Not to mention cards for outright fighting, such as that given to Tueno near the end of the game vs Drew. He is a splendid all-around player who can beat teams by playing well within the rules. So, why does he do that? It speaks volumes about team discipline and attitude.

Most good teams aren't like this, regardless of how physically they play. They accept that when they foul people, it's likely to be called, and if they take cheap shots they will probably find themselves on the sidelines pretty quickly. If officiating at D3 level were more consistent, even fewer good teams would be like this.

I want to start this post by saying I do agree with a majority of your post but I will point out that the officials could have doubled the foul count of that game. It was a poorly officiated game from all aspects of the game. I disagree with "zero discipline" comment though and judging that solely off card accumulation totals.   

Surprisingly it was Drew who lacked discipline and were the more aggressive team this time. And if you would like to say it starts at the top then look no further than the Drew HC who got a red card for dissent. I don't believe there were any cards for dissent on Lycoming in this match, only on Drew which happened twice. Fouls were pretty even in this game so to say one was more dirty than the other can't apply in this game. Drew also had more cards in this game.

Sure you can reference cards for dissent etc but I watched quite a few games of Lycoming this year and I do not really recall too many times they received cards for a "lack of discipline" as you phrase it. Did they receive cards for fouls? Of course and plenty of them but if I had to guess maybe only 3 or 4 cards for dissent all year at least from the from games I watched. That's fairly normal for most teams I watched around this region and throughout the country. Drew has 31 cards this year and Dickinson has 37 but nobody has complained about either of those teams or classified them as "borderline dirty." Why such a stigma for one team but not others that have similar card counts?

Lycoming had 37 cards this year and their opponents had 30 which is a similar ratio. They had 2 reds and their opponents had 3. Hard to say they were better or worst in that department compared to the teams they faced this year. For comparison, Lycoming had 36 yellow cards in 2016 which was their worst season in the last half decade, 43 in 2015 when they went to the 3rd round of NCAA's, 33 in 2014 when they lost in the conference finals, and 28 in 2013 when they went to the 2nd round of NCAA's. A majority of these cards come from playing a high pressure/intensity game and as a result of that they can get caught and foul the opponent and sometimes end up getting a yellow card. It's soccer, it's going to happen. To further emphasize this point, Lycoming isn't even in the top 20 in the country for # of cards this year and they played more games then most other teams. I have never really understood the arguments on this message board in terms of fouls and cards etc. I enjoyed the one post from earlier in the year which referenced OWU's coach (I think) stating that if they are losing in fouls they are most likely losing the game. It seems Lycoming plays to that mindset and there is nothing wrong with it or playing high pressure and physical. When it becomes dirty then complaining is justifiable but when they pick up a yellow for a hard tackle that they were half a second late for let's not get too carried away.

MAF: I didn't see this game at all, and I accept your account of it. Thank you for the detailed summary, which is appreciated.

As for my comments about chippy play, I certainly leveled that charge at Lycoming recently, but I haven't singled them out. I often complain about chippiness in games that I've seen in person or over a high quality stream. That is one of my two biggest complaints about D3 soccer; the other one is the great disparity in quality and type of playing surfaces (which isn't the topic here). Usually I connect my comments with poor officiating--which is exactly I what I said in my analysis of the MAC Commonwealth title game. Sometimes officials can't be blamed for chippiness: they call most of the fouls and card the ones that should be carded, yet the number of fouls is still very high b/c that's how a team plays. But, IMO, competent officiating keeps the number of fouls lower and minimizes chippiness as a general rule. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but it lies behind my complaints.

Fouls per se are obviously related to physical play, but most fouls are not cheap shots, so cards are a much better indicator. Every team will collect some fouls, every year--that's almost universally true, although if someone wants me to show them an exception I think could do that. Even the most disciplined teams will receive cards for mistimed tackles, for example. But, disciplined teams should get almost no fouls for complaining. Almost none, and many years none at all, and almost never a red for complaining. It's their own fault, no one else's, if they receive non-negligible numbers of them.

Would you agree with these thoughts, MAF?

An extreme example of having no discipline, noticed by many, was the infamous MSU-RUN game last year: http://montclairathletics.com/boxscore.aspx?path=&id=7422

As you say, Lycoming received 37 Yellows this year--and three reds. Their average of 1.68 YCG is at the top of the MAC Commonweath, but not by a large margin. Two bottom dwellers (Stevenson and Albright) were fairly close in that category, and over the years I've seen some players from one of those two clubs (I won't say which one) make extremely dangerous plays against Messiah that in some instances resulted in straight reds. The better Commonwealth teams this year were well below Lycoming in this statistic. LVC came in at .95, Arcadia at .67, and Messiah at .32. Just one season's numbers, of course, but it would be easy to look back for more comparisons.

By comparison, the Midwest Conference (which isn't very good overall) had two teams close to Lycoming in YCG (Lawrence and Illinois College) and one greatly exceeding Lyco (Knox, the national leader in total cards, comes in with 2.55). I picked that conference without knowing a thing about any of the teams and I had no idea what I'd get. On the other hand, if we compare the NJAC numbers, where I expect to see high YCG based on their reputation, that's exactly what we find: Kean at 2.00, RUC at 1.91, followed by three more teams between 1.43 and 1.56. The two best teams this year, Rowan and RUN, were well below Lyco at 1.36 and 1.21 respectively. The NESCAC doesn't calculate YCG, but the largest number of YC is 21 in 18 games for Amherst, a team that some here have said can be chippy or bitchy--I have not said that myself since I almost never get to see them play, but others have certainly said such things. By comparison, Tufts (said to be a side that can play very physically, but I don't recall anyone complaining about chippiness) has just 14 yellows in 19 games.

Nationally I can't find a # for YCG, just an overall total from the NCAA. Lycoming comes in this week tied for 21st with 36 yellows (perhaps this difference of one from the conference stats is a clerical error)--just outside the top 20 (the group you picked for comparison). If the number is really 37 they would be in the top 20. They are tied for 22nd (with many others, including Drew) in total reds with 3.

I recall data in previous years being roughly similar.

To sum up, I do think Lyco has been a chippy team in recent seasons, but I do not by any means single them out. I comment on this aspect whenever I see it, regardless of which teams are playing. IMO, cards are a relevant indicator, since many of them do not involve unintentional late tackles or badly executed tackles that otherwise would be clean plays. They tend to involve deliberate fouling--something that should be called in each and every instance, IMO, b/c if not called the games can easily get out of hand, people can be hurt, and the team doing it is obtaining an unfair advantage (that is, an advantage not resulting from superior talent or better strategy or making better plays).

Sorry for the long song and dance. I'll try to give this pet peeve a rest now.

I don't disagree with that assessment Falconer. I am just relaying from what I saw in watching them play throughout the season and I don't think they are a dirty team at all. I believe they play hard and aggressive soccer and press hard which results in many of the fouls and cards they receive. In the Drew game specifically, I think you would have been surprised that Lycoming arguably was the least aggressive or physical of the two teams until the undisciplined play at the end. With that said, I can't imagine any coach being okay with that play or any coach teaching that kind of behavior to a player. It was certainly a result of frustration and not deemed appropriate by anybody. As such the red card for the Drew coach who now has hurt his team drastically in the next round.   
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 12:25:17 PM
I must say I kind of like the GOOOOOLLLLLL call...That is not easy to do
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 14, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 11:37:59 AMAs you say, Lycoming received 37 Yellows this year--and three reds. Their average of 1.68 YCG is at the top of the MAC Commonweath, but not by a large margin. Two bottom dwellers (Stevenson and Albright) were fairly close in that category, and over the years I've seen some players from one of those two clubs (I won't say which one) make extremely dangerous plays against Messiah that in some instances resulted in straight reds. The better Commonwealth teams this year were well below Lycoming in this statistic. LVC came in at .95, Arcadia at .67, and Messiah at .32. Just one season's numbers, of course, but it would be easy to look back for more comparisons.

By comparison, the Midwest Conference (which isn't very good overall) had two teams close to Lycoming in YCG (Lawrence and Illinois College) and one greatly exceeding Lyco (Knox, the national leader in total cards, comes in with 2.55). I picked that conference without knowing a thing about any of the teams and I had no idea what I'd get. On the other hand, if we compare the NJAC numbers, where I expect to see high YCG based on their reputation, that's exactly what we find: Kean at 2.00, RUC at 1.91, followed by three more teams between 1.43 and 1.56. The two best teams this year, Rowan and RUN, were well below Lyco at 1.36 and 1.21 respectively. The NESCAC doesn't calculate YCG, but the largest number of YC is 21 in 18 games for Amherst, a team that some here have said can be chippy or bitchy--I have not said that myself since I almost never get to see them play, but others have certainly said such things. By comparison, Tufts (said to be a side that can play very physically, but I don't recall anyone complaining about chippiness) has just 14 yellows in 19 games.

I'm not sure why you brought the Midwest Conference into the conversation, since you didn't even bother to make performance comparisons among the MWC teams cited the way that you did for the Commonwealth and NJAC teams, but Knox is one of only three MWC teams among the ten in the circuit that can be deemed competent by reasonable national standards. In fact, the Prairie Fire were MWC co-champs this season with St. Norbert, finishing with a 13-3-4, 8-0-1 record. In terms of the two squads close to Lycoming in YCG, Illinois College was middle-of-the-pack for that league (9-8-1, 4-4-1) and Lawrence was the cellar-dweller (which, given the MWC's lower-tier status as a circuit, makes Lawrence particularly dreadful; Massey has Lawrence ranked 391st out of the 415 D3 men's soccer teams), finishing with a record of 2-14-1, 0-8-1.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 11:37:41 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 11:32:54 AM
Just imagine, a decade ago this discussion wouldn't have been possible!

Question: when did colleges -- Messiah, for example -- start doing broadcasts (whether audio or video)? I must admit I am quite spoiled having started following D3 soccer in 2010 and generally having access to some way to follow the game beyond the livestats, but I recognize that this has not always been the case. (And when did live stats come around?)

Mainly in the last ten years or so... give or take exact start years as it where. Many, like Messiah, have also transitioned from one mode of delivery to others. It continues to evolve on a yearly, even monthly, basis. But primarily it has been something that has existed in the last ten years or so.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 12:41:38 PM
I think the guy was great but went over the top with the GOLLL call. other than that he was awesome. the whole R accent he had going was interesting but at least he know the game of futbol. i'm not even sure RUC has live video yet(usually at the games) so I wouldn't know. but it has definitely made D3 soccer a lot more accessiable. don't take it for granted either bc I only have 2 games I can watch from our season and none of them are regular season games.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 2xfaux on November 14, 2017, 01:19:17 PM
I am curious about field surfaces.  I know in the past teams that played on grass and teams that played on turf seemed to have an advantage when they played on a surface they were more comfortable with.  Is that still true or has turf technology advanced to the point where it is not an issue today? 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

I highly suspect because men's and women's basketball have tournaments that weekend with games throughout the day on Saturday... maybe it took less of a burden on staff and resources to do day games instead of night games. It appears the soccer games are early enough to keep the overlap at a minimum.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:28:54 PM
2017 National Championship Odds:

Calvin                    4-1
Tufts                      8-1
Chicago                  10-1
Messiah                  10-1
Brandeis                 12-1
Amherst                 16-1
St.Thomas              18-1
M.H.B.                    18-1
Rochester               20-1
Emory                    22-1
North Park              22-1
W & L                     26-1
Hopkins                  26-1
Drew                      30-1
Otterbein                50-1
Stevens                  50-1

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:30:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

I highly suspect because men's and women's basketball have tournaments that weekend with games throughout the day on Saturday... maybe it took less of a burden on staff and resources to do day games instead of night games. It appears the soccer games are early enough to keep the overlap at a minimum.


Your kidding me right? Are you saying Basketball/ staffing is dictating this? There must be another reason
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 11:08:12 PM
Amherst is still very young and I get the feeling UR is one of those inconsistent teams in which you never know what outfit will show up on the day. ConnCollege had them beat but totally blew it in the 81st minute and then lost it in OT. Still for UR to win at Oneonta the next day is impressive.

Spot on.

Amherst has had issues defensively -- surprising for a Serpone team -- but they did graduate the whole back four, so that's somewhat understandable. I like Derby and I think Hlinomaz is still very good, and Ajayi is a beast. They might not be as spectacular as in recent years but they are clearly very dangerous and gritty and will give Rochester as tough of a test as they've had this year. Rochester has solid team size, but I would think Amherst will score at least once, probably off a set piece.

I did not expect Rochester to do much this season after graduating four-year starters Greblick and Ben Swanger, and I really wasn't all that blown away by the guys they had returning, but they have proved me wrong. Granted, Rouin has been the majority of their offense this year, despite being held scoreless the last 4 games, but they have had other guys step up in recent games. Rouin himself has had a breakout year, scoring 12 this season alone after scoring 3 goals in his first 3 years. Clearly he has done major work on his finishing: last year, he had 2 goals on 40 shots (shot pct of .050); this year, 12 goals on 60 shots (shot pct of .200). That is a major improvement, I haven't seen many players do so little (comparatively speaking) in their first three years only to have a senior year in which they are in contention for All-American, although I'm sure it's happened. Regardless, that is impressive, and fair play to him.

As I've said numerous times, UR is a tough team to play against because they are athletic, fight to the end, and will be in your face the full 90 (or 110) minutes. They are much like a NESCAC side in that respect, probably the most similar of the UAA teams, although I've heard the opinion that Brandeis is cut from the same cloth, and I'd agree with that. Regardless, I'm sure Amherst will be a bit unperturbed by the battle shown by Rochester, but I also am not totally sure that Rochester is ready to handle the aerial threat and physicality that Amherst poses (athleticism and physicality are two different things IMHO). Should be a good one, and -- if it wasn't for Calvin/Chicago being in the same round -- this would be in with a shout for this year's marquee Sweet 16 game.

Over/under for yellow cards: 5
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:34:41 PM
2017 Final 4 Odds:

Calvin                    2-1
Messiah                  2-1
St.Thomas              4-1
Tufts                      8-1
Chicago                  10-1
Brandeis                 12-1
Amherst                 14-1
M.H.B.                    14-1
Rochester               14-1
Emory                    16-1
North Park              16-1
W & L                     18-1
Hopkins                  20-1
Drew                      20-1
Otterbein                35-1
Stevens                  35-1
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 2xfaux on November 14, 2017, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

Shoemaker Field was a mess after the Messiah/Lycoming game in the rain a week ago.  Rain is expected again this Saturday and perhaps the hope is to get the games in before the field is a mess again.  This past weekend when the Messiah Women hosted the games were played on the Lacrosse field which is turf and has lights but no where near the seating capacity of Shoemaker.

(modified by GS for formatting)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:41:04 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 11:08:12 PM
Amherst is still very young and I get the feeling UR is one of those inconsistent teams in which you never know what outfit will show up on the day. ConnCollege had them beat but totally blew it in the 81st minute and then lost it in OT. Still for UR to win at Oneonta the next day is impressive.

Spot on.

Amherst has had issues defensively -- surprising for a Serpone team -- but they did graduate the whole back four, so that's somewhat understandable. I like Derby and I think Hlinomaz is still very good, and Ajayi is a beast. They might not be as spectacular as in recent years but they are clearly very dangerous and gritty and will give Rochester as tough of a test as they've had this year. Rochester has solid team size, but I would think Amherst will score at least once, probably off a set piece.

I did not expect Rochester to do much this season after graduating four-year starters Greblick and Ben Swanger, and I really wasn't all that blown away by the guys they had returning, but they have proved me wrong. Granted, Rouin has been the majority of their offense this year, despite being held scoreless the last 4 games, but they have had other guys step up in recent games. Rouin himself has had a breakout year, scoring 12 this season alone after scoring 3 goals in his first 3 years. Clearly he has done major work on his finishing: last year, he had 2 goals on 40 shots (shot pct of .050); this year, 12 goals on 60 shots (shot pct of .200). That is a major improvement, I haven't seen many players do so little (comparatively speaking) in their first three years only to have a senior year in which they are in contention for All-American, although I'm sure it's happened. Regardless, that is impressive, and fair play to him.

As I've said numerous times, UR is a tough team to play against because they are athletic, fight to the end, and will be in your face the full 90 (or 110) minutes. They are much like a NESCAC side in that respect, probably the most similar of the UAA teams, although I've heard the opinion that Brandeis is cut from the same cloth, and I'd agree with that. Regardless, I'm sure Amherst will be a bit unperturbed by the battle shown by Rochester, but I also am not totally sure that Rochester is ready to handle the aerial threat and physicality that Amherst poses (athleticism and physicality are two different things IMHO). Should be a good one, and -- if it wasn't for Calvin/Chicago being in the same round -- this would be in with a shout for this year's marquee Sweet 16 game.

Over/under for yellow cards: 5

So you think this will be a borderline dirty/chippy game? It seems like UR is a hybrid because when I have seen them they can knock the ball around a bit especially against skilled UAA sides. I caught most of the game with Conn and really did not notice them playing overly physical in that match. It was surprisingly a rather fluid affair.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:42:08 PM
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 14, 2017, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

Shoemaker Field was a mess after the Messiah/Lycoming game in the rain a week ago.  Rain is expected again this Saturday and perhaps the hope is to get the games in before the field is a mess again.  This past weekend when the Messiah Women hosted the games were played on the Lacrosse field which is turf and has lights but no where near the seating capacity of Shoemaker.


This is a more reasonable answer. Weather and field conditions make more sense to me

(modified by GS for formatting)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:30:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 01:27:49 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:16:14 PM
Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

I highly suspect because men's and women's basketball have tournaments that weekend with games throughout the day on Saturday... maybe it took less of a burden on staff and resources to do day games instead of night games. It appears the soccer games are early enough to keep the overlap at a minimum.


Your kidding me right? Are you saying Basketball/ staffing is dictating this? There must be another reason

I don't think anything is being "dictated" at all... we are in cross-over season and small college campuses and athletic departments have a lot going on sometimes. I have run 8-team basketball tournaments while there is a football game, ice hockey games, and even volleyball games all either home or away to consider ... there is only so much man power.

I do feel they are playing the soccer games earlier to adjust for man-power on campus on the weekend prior to thanksgiving. I have seen that a number of schools. There are only so many SIDs, ADs, and other staff available not to mention security and other staffing the campus may have in place.

I also know that the non-light schedule from the NCAA says tournament games are to be played at 11:00am and 1:30pm on Saturday followed by 1:00pm on Sunday. So Messiah is using the non-light schedule. My guess is because of their busy day. I think they are doing it based on the following home schedule:

11:00 am - MSOC: Stevens vs Messiah
1:30 pm - MSOC: Rochester vs Amherst
12:00 pm - M&W SWIM vs. Lycoming
1:00 pm - MBB: Tournament consolation game
3:00 pm - MBB: Tournament championship game
5:00 pm - WBB: vs. Geneseo

If they went by the NCAA schedule for lights, they would have a game at 5pm and 7:30pm. That would interfere with the women's basketball game (I noticed the men's soccer game has less likelihood of interfering with the men's basketball game probably at 3:00pm; they very well could be trying to make it easier for Messiah sports fans to see all the games.)

Also, if they use the light schedule, it forces a game to be played at 7:00 pm on Sunday. I am willing to bet that was not the schedule anyone wants to play, so they are going without lights.

(Post edit: the field and weather could be factors; the weather is expected to be rainy as previously mentioned and it is expected to get pretty cold at night.)

BTW - also not featured on that schedule at Messiah this weekend: women's soccer on the road, Field Hockey at the national championship weekend in Kentucky, Cross Country at the national championships in Illinois, and wrestling on the road in Alliance, Ohio (I assume at Mount Union).

I think Messiah has a ton on their plate and they are doing what they can with it. The schedule makes sense for a TON of reasons.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:41:04 PM
So you think this will be a borderline dirty/chippy game? It seems like UR is a hybrid because when I have seen them they can knock the ball around a bit especially against skilled UAA sides. I caught most of the game with Conn and really did not notice them playing overly physical in that match. It was surprisingly a rather fluid affair.

I think so. Apple isn't quite in the same class as Serpone in terms of sideline histrionics, but he has been known to work the refs from the sidelines and spent several minutes complaining about a no-call in the box at Brandeis last year (to be fair to him, I think he did have a point). Much like Wiercinski -- not over the top by any means, but he'll definitely let you know when he disagrees. As for UR as a team, they are a feisty bunch and I suspect that, given Amherst's physicality, they will get riled up when the Mammoths go hard into the tackle and may react poorly. Of course, these are all just my opinions, but having watched lots of both teams there are numerous reasons that I think this will be a good match (and have some fireworks).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:41:04 PM
So you think this will be a borderline dirty/chippy game? It seems like UR is a hybrid because when I have seen them they can knock the ball around a bit especially against skilled UAA sides. I caught most of the game with Conn and really did not notice them playing overly physical in that match. It was surprisingly a rather fluid affair.

I think so. Apple isn't quite in the same class as Serpone in terms of sideline histrionics, but he has been known to work the refs from the sidelines and spent several minutes complaining about a no-call in the box at Brandeis last year (to be fair to him, I think he did have a point). Much like Wiercinski -- not over the top by any means, but he'll definitely let you know when he disagrees. As for UR as a team, they are a feisty bunch and I suspect that, given Amherst's physicality, they will get riled up when the Mammoths go hard into the tackle and may react poorly. Of course, these are all just my opinions, but having watched lots of both teams there are numerous reasons that I think this will be a good match (and have some fireworks).


Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

I believe they had significant pressure from the NCAA to change the Fri/Sat because coaches were getting pissed that Former Coach Dave Brandt was scouting the Sunday games after his team had advanced, mind you this was all before streaming was available
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 02:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

I believe they had significant pressure from the NCAA to change the Fri/Sat because coaches were getting pissed that Former Coach Dave Brandt was scouting the Sunday games after his team had advanced, mind you this was all before streaming was available

I don't buy that... remember it was a school-wide decision since all post-season tournaments are affected. They didn't make the change just in soccer. Plus the fact, Calvin and Hope still have the same rule in affect along with a lot of other schools. Sure, people can claim it was something about scouting... but they were still a non-Sunday playing school after streaming started. Decisions like these have a lot of ramifications when it comes to tournaments when you won't play on Sundays. Messiah decided to change it to ease up on their end. If there was a problem with scouting, they have other ways to handle that like post-season suspensions and bans. It has happened elsewhere for other reasons.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that

In past they have played 4-3-3, but this year seems to be more of a 4-3-2-1 with Rouin at the top. Pretty much the same setup with the striker a bit further up. They try to spring him a lot, he's got some wheels. They do not have any real dynamos in midfield or playmakers, but they are very good in terms of positional awareness. Goalkeeper is solid but not spectacular.

As for the field, interesting question. I think they will use the extra space well, but while Amherst likes narrow fields I do think Amherst will be better suited to the surface. We can say they're even in terms of having to adapt to that.

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game

No idea about system, but they definitely have some size based on the look I had at their roster and reading a few game recaps. Cserhat at CF is 6-5 and 200 so I can imagine they might be trying to hit him on crosses against the Brandeis CBs who are 6' and 5'10".
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 14, 2017, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 14, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

D-Mac is spot on. Staffing resources in light of the beginning of basketball season are the likely driver behind schools scheduling playoff soccer matches. I can state for a fact that that's why NPU is holding afternoon contests on Saturday rather than on Saturday night. If John Born had his druthers, the Vikes would be playing at night. But he understands, just like the rest of us at NPU, that there's only so much staff and so many physical resources (from laptops to power strips to microphones) to go around. As it is, NPU is going to have to run the soccer matches while there's a women's basketball tournament being played elsewhere on campus; the alternative was to schedule at night, when the men's basketball team will be hosting a tournament.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 14, 2017, 05:30:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AMHe did great with (and seemed to derive great joy from saying) names like Ruiz Plaza, Alejos, etc. even if the abrupt change of accent isn't as smooth on the ears.  (side note: having lived in Brazil for several years, I've repeatedly experienced this in reverse where the Brazilian announcers break their native accent to say an American, English, etc. name leaving me both (a) impressed with the skill to accurately switch accents for a single word (name) while talking a mile a minute, and (b) finding it a little jolting to the ear.)

I do the same thing in pronouncing the names of North Park's Swedish and Norwegian players, but the reason why I do so is common courtesy. Our broadcasts get substantial viewers from Scandinavia, and it's polite to use the proper way of saying a player's name when you know full well that his friends and family may be watching back home.  I try to do the same thing with North Park's football players from American Samoa (Samoan names are infinitely more difficult to pronounce properly than are Scandinavian names).

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AMOn the goal call, the announcer just seemed to be trying a little too hard to mimic the goal calls that you'd hear from announcers throughout Latin America.

That stereotypical "Gooooooooooooooooooooooooal!" nonsense is exactly why I try not to use the g-word on my goal calls. I either say, "It's in!" or "He scores!"

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2017, 10:54:11 AMI can only imagine what people have thought the few times I have stepped in to do play-by-play or color commentary for broadcasts.  Of course, I don't have a lick of training or education or background in this field, so going in I know I'm not going to measure up very well and can only hope that more people are thinking that "any announcer is better than no announcer" instead of thinking that "silence would be better than having to listen to this guy".

I do play-by-play for eight different sports at NPU, and, while I wouldn't say that men's soccer is the hardest (that would be volleyball), it's the most physically challenging -- ninety minutes of talking, forty-five of them at a stretch, with no breaks. Since I don't have a color commentator, I'm filling in that aspect of the broadcast as well, as much as I am able. It has its own pleasures, in that it's easy to find a rhythm in this sport that you don't find in other sports, and, because you can see plays develop, you can modulate more and thus make your crescendos mean more than they do in other sports.

Men's soccer was one of the last sports that I added to my repertoire. I was fortunate in that I worked as the spotter and occasional scorekeeper in the press box while North Park had another broadcaster call the matches, a former player who worked the mic for several years for NPU, which meant that I got to hear on a regular basis how someone else called the games and thus I had a yardstick to use when I took over. And I put in some time on YouTube as well, listening to various PBP announcers from around the world and how they worked games. It's not rocket science, but, as you can attest, anybody who thinks it's easy ought to give it a try him- or herself sometime. It can also be a lot of fun, especially if you have a good program for whom you're calling matches.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:30:18 PM
Shooter,

Seems like you were at the Lycoming v Drew game this past weekend....Give us some goods on Drew...Formation? How did they play Lycoming? Was Lycoming pressing them and how they deal with that? Who am I lookin at for their top players?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:42:09 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that

In past they have played 4-3-3, but this year seems to be more of a 4-3-2-1 with Rouin at the top. Pretty much the same setup with the striker a bit further up. They try to spring him a lot, he's got some wheels. They do not have any real dynamos in midfield or playmakers, but they are very good in terms of positional awareness. Goalkeeper is solid but not spectacular.

As for the field, interesting question. I think they will use the extra space well, but while Amherst likes narrow fields I do think Amherst will be better suited to the surface. We can say they're even in terms of having to adapt to that.

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game

No idea about system, but they definitely have some size based on the look I had at their roster and reading a few game recaps. Cserhat at CF is 6-5 and 200 so I can imagine they might be trying to hit him on crosses against the Brandeis CBs who are 6' and 5'10".


Yea if you take a look at Drew's highlights from their conference tournament they have some serious size up top along with speed and athleticism.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 14, 2017, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:30:18 PM
Shooter,

Seems like you were at the Lycoming v Drew game this past weekend....Give us some goods on Drew...Formation? How did they play Lycoming? Was Lycoming pressing them and how they deal with that? Who am I lookin at for their top players?

I posted this after their Landmark Championship...

Made the 45 minute drive to Madison to watch Drew vs. E-Town in the Landmark Championship.  I've seen them a few times via stream and wasn't super impressed, but seeing them in person today I get the feeling they are legit. At 19-0-1, they are certainly capable of making a very deep run in the tournament.  Yes I know their SOS isn't as impressive as others, but until someone demonstrates they can beat Drew, they are an elite 8, if not final 4, contender in my eyes.

While the stats may indicate today was a fairly close game, honestly there was never a doubt that Drew was going to win. Obviously they benefited from playing an only slightly-above-average E-Town team, but they have some serious talent. What's scary is they are loaded with underclassman having started only 2 seniors!

Forwards: Imoh and Cserhat, both sophomores, are extremely dangerous. Cserhat has an incredibly soft touch for someone that's 6'5.  He's not just a big body, but has skill and finesse. Simply put, he's hard to defend. He scored two today to bring his season total to 20. Imoh showed today why we was conference ROY last season and a Regional All-American.  He had two assists to bring his season numbers to 10g, 9a.  At 6'2, 200lbs, he's a beast who you cannot knock off the ball.  Although not overly speedy, he's still deceptively fast and has very good foot skills. He's as good, if not better, than Wasso from E-Town.   My only knock on Cserhat and Imoh is they are both lazy on D, don't track back, and are content to take their time getting back onside, thereby negating Drew's ability to play quickly forward after a MF turnover.

Midfielder: Martinez pulls the strings.  He too is a big body at 6'2, 195.  He plays as a holding MF, rarely taking more than 2 touches. He has great vision and is capable of making a crisp 40 yard pass.  Defensively he keeps it simple, tackling when necessary but usually just clogging the passing/dribbling lanes.  Audi, Kwak and Correra were extremely effective and have good motors - definitely the workhorses on the team. 

Defense: 3 in the back.  The elder Cserhat, at 6'3 is a fine CB.  Thought he took some unnecessary chances, but overall was pretty solid. Rodriguez at 6'1, 195 uses his size to his advantage and didn't really get beat. Goncalves is smaller but obviously quicker.  Both he and Rodriguez play simple and smart - rarely taking chances and are happy to play through Martinez or up top to Imoh and Cserhat. 

Keeper: Adamo wasn't really tested so it's hard to say what he's got.  Listed at 5'9" so that can certainly be a challenge. 

Subs: Drew went about 6 deep with any significant playing time - again mostly fresh/soph. In fact, their starting unit in the second half featured 4-5 bench players and they scored within the first 45 seconds.

Drew was incredibly impressive in the first half, less so in the second, but that could be because they were up 3-0 and had the bench getting a lot of minutes. In my opinion, this is not a team you want to play.  They have the size to play physically, and the skill to play pretty.  Imoh/Cserhat have to be one of the best 1-2 forward combinations in the country and either of them can beat you so you can't just focus on shutting down one of them.  I'd love to see a better work rate from them but maybe that's just me.

Now don't get me wrong, they are beatable, but I don't see it being 0-1. I can see losing 2-3 in OT, or perhaps PK's, but they will certainly be an interesting team to follow through the tournament.     
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 15, 2017, 08:35:19 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:30:18 PM
Shooter,

Seems like you were at the Lycoming v Drew game this past weekend....Give us some goods on Drew...Formation? How did they play Lycoming? Was Lycoming pressing them and how they deal with that? Who am I lookin at for their top players?

I watched the game online and was tuned in for its entirety. Lycoming had the better run of play for a majority of the game and the shots were 10-3 in the first half to Lycoming but they couldn't find the back of the net. Shots clearly favored Drew in the second half but many of those came from counter attacks after they scored when Lycoming was flying numbers forward to equalize. 12-4 advantage to Drew in shots in the second half but I would say 6 or 7 of those came in the final 15 minutes after the goal so that number is certainly deceiving.

It's hard to say they were ever dangerous unless they had a free kick or a corner kick. Lycoming had the ball for most of the game and Drew never got too dangerous in the run of play. They have 2 massive forwards but neither of them did much in this game and from what I can tell they didn't do anything in the previous game vs F&M either, according to the box score. They are both skillful no doubt but lack any kind of pace so they won't get in behind a defense and that was evident vs Lycoming. As for formation they play 3 in the back. At times it looked like a 3-5-2 and at times it looked like a 3-4-3 but always only 3 in the back. The 2 forwards never track defensively and they seemed to rely on the 3 CB's for all defensive purposes. This is why I think they can become exposed vs a good Brandeis team and allow multiple goals. Lycoming easily could have had 4 or 5 goals and that isn't counting the non-PK calls throughout. As for the GK he was small but not sure on an exact height but 5'9" seems accurate as mentioned in a different post. He wasn't impressive but wasn't poor by any means. He made a couple quality saves when called upon.

Drew seemed frustrated throughout since they couldn't get going offensively but survived every attack Lycoming managed. Lycoming was able to turn them over and attack down the flanks successfully. As for top players no one really stood out. The 2 forwards will make you take notice with their size and skill but like I said neither of them ever got dangerous in the run of play. Although they do try and connect 1 touch through the middle but weren't successful with it. The one forward seemed to be the hot head on the team. I was impressed with whatever kid had the cast on his arm defensively. He seemed to be a ball winner despite his lack of size.

EB gives a more detailed description which seems fair although I was not as impressed with the 2 forwards as others have been I guess. Brandeis should be able to pick them apart but if they go down at any point it will be difficult to mount a comeback as seen in the last game.       
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: sokermom on November 15, 2017, 10:14:39 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:42:09 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that

In past they have played 4-3-3, but this year seems to be more of a 4-3-2-1 with Rouin at the top. Pretty much the same setup with the striker a bit further up. They try to spring him a lot, he's got some wheels. They do not have any real dynamos in midfield or playmakers, but they are very good in terms of positional awareness. Goalkeeper is solid but not spectacular.

As for the field, interesting question. I think they will use the extra space well, but while Amherst likes narrow fields I do think Amherst will be better suited to the surface. We can say they're even in terms of having to adapt to that.

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game

No idea about system, but they definitely have some size based on the look I had at their roster and reading a few game recaps. Cserhat at CF is 6-5 and 200 so I can imagine they might be trying to hit him on crosses against the Brandeis CBs who are 6' and 5'10".


Yea if you take a look at Drew's highlights from their conference tournament they have some serious size up top along with speed and athleticism.

And super confident.  My son played against Drew and said players were obnoxious, overly confident, and know they can win any game.  Basically play with a chip on their shoulders.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: franklyspeaking on November 15, 2017, 10:18:52 AM
Yes they do play with a chip on their shoulder.  You can frustrate the brothers enough that they will retaliate.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 15, 2017, 11:19:27 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:42:09 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2017, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 01:58:58 PM
Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that

In past they have played 4-3-3, but this year seems to be more of a 4-3-2-1 with Rouin at the top. Pretty much the same setup with the striker a bit further up. They try to spring him a lot, he's got some wheels. They do not have any real dynamos in midfield or playmakers, but they are very good in terms of positional awareness. Goalkeeper is solid but not spectacular.

As for the field, interesting question. I think they will use the extra space well, but while Amherst likes narrow fields I do think Amherst will be better suited to the surface. We can say they're even in terms of having to adapt to that.

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game

No idea about system, but they definitely have some size based on the look I had at their roster and reading a few game recaps. Cserhat at CF is 6-5 and 200 so I can imagine they might be trying to hit him on crosses against the Brandeis CBs who are 6' and 5'10".


Yea if you take a look at Drew's highlights from their conference tournament they have some serious size up top along with speed and athleticism.

Where did you find this highlight vid? Mind sharing?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 15, 2017, 11:20:57 AM
Sounds like the Brandeis vs Drew game may depend a lot on how tightly the refs call the game and whether they issue any yellow cards early for so called aggressive play. I have not seen Drew play but basing my statement on other comments here about their style of play. If the refs let a lot go as just aggressive play then Drew may have advantage. Otherwise Brandeis may prevail.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 15, 2017, 11:26:11 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2017, 11:20:57 AM
Sounds like the Brandeis vs Drew game may depend a lot on how tightly the refs call the game and whether they issue any yellow cards early for so called aggressive play. I have not seen Drew play but basing my statement on other comments here about their style of play. If the refs let a lot go as just aggressive play then Drew may have advantage. Otherwise Brandeis may prevail.

From what I've come to understand, refs are more inclined to "let them play" at this point in the year where the games are very high-stakes. Of course, it varies from official to official, but seems to be the general trend.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 15, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
Should let them play with a slow whistle to see if an advantage gets there, without calling the "play on"... bring it back to the spot.

Second foul by player... address him/her.  Third or fourth foul by same player or on the same player... boom 'em...     
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 15, 2017, 11:28:35 AM
-32 KARMA.  HAAAAAA
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 15, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 15, 2017, 11:26:11 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2017, 11:20:57 AM
Sounds like the Brandeis vs Drew game may depend a lot on how tightly the refs call the game and whether they issue any yellow cards early for so called aggressive play. I have not seen Drew play but basing my statement on other comments here about their style of play. If the refs let a lot go as just aggressive play then Drew may have advantage. Otherwise Brandeis may prevail.

From what I've come to understand, refs are more inclined to "let them play" at this point in the year where the games are very high-stakes. Of course, it varies from official to official, but seems to be the general trend.

100% correct. would you rather watch a game be called like field hockey or let them play
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 2xfaux on November 15, 2017, 12:06:18 PM
Certainly, "let them play" is the best case.  However, everyone has seen games where the ref who "let them play" early struggles to keep control in the second half.  Consistency makes for the best games.  If it not a foul in the first minute but is a foul in the last minute ...we have a problem.  The best refs set the tone early and stick to it and that is why they get the big bucks :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 15, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
For Messiah's quadrant this weekend.  Previews of the teams will be up soon I expect..

http://gomessiah.com/sports/2017/11/13/MS111316-20161st2nd.aspx?id=311

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 15, 2017, 01:10:12 PM
Quote from: franklyspeaking on November 15, 2017, 10:18:52 AM
Yes they do play with a chip on their shoulder.

As they should. They're undefeated and haven't received any respect all-year.  Yes, their schedule was not the strongest, but still... THEY NEVER LOST.  They beat Haverford, and 3 other teams who made the tournament last year. 

From the games I've seen, they're not dirty. That's not to say they won't bang bodies though. The 20 fouls against Lycoming (to their 23) was an above average number.

Against F&M it was 15-12 (Drew)
Against E-Town it was 15-13 (Drew)
Against Haverford it was 14-11 (Fords)
Against Muhlenberg it was 19-15 (Muhles)
Against Moravian it was 17-13 (Moravian)
Against NYU it was 11-10 (Drew)
Against TCNJ it was 10-7 (Drew)

If I had to guess, the majority of their fouls are by Imoh. He's a punk, but not representative of the entire team.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 15, 2017, 01:41:06 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 15, 2017, 08:35:19 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:30:18 PM
Shooter,

Seems like you were at the Lycoming v Drew game this past weekend....Give us some goods on Drew...Formation? How did they play Lycoming? Was Lycoming pressing them and how they deal with that? Who am I lookin at for their top players?

I watched the game online and was tuned in for its entirety. Lycoming had the better run of play for a majority of the game and the shots were 10-3 in the first half to Lycoming but they couldn't find the back of the net. Shots clearly favored Drew in the second half but many of those came from counter attacks after they scored when Lycoming was flying numbers forward to equalize. 12-4 advantage to Drew in shots in the second half but I would say 6 or 7 of those came in the final 15 minutes after the goal so that number is certainly deceiving.

It's hard to say they were ever dangerous unless they had a free kick or a corner kick. Lycoming had the ball for most of the game and Drew never got too dangerous in the run of play. They have 2 massive forwards but neither of them did much in this game and from what I can tell they didn't do anything in the previous game vs F&M either, according to the box score. They are both skillful no doubt but lack any kind of pace so they won't get in behind a defense and that was evident vs Lycoming. As for formation they play 3 in the back. At times it looked like a 3-5-2 and at times it looked like a 3-4-3 but always only 3 in the back. The 2 forwards never track defensively and they seemed to rely on the 3 CB's for all defensive purposes. This is why I think they can become exposed vs a good Brandeis team and allow multiple goals. Lycoming easily could have had 4 or 5 goals and that isn't counting the non-PK calls throughout. As for the GK he was small but not sure on an exact height but 5'9" seems accurate as mentioned in a different post. He wasn't impressive but wasn't poor by any means. He made a couple quality saves when called upon.

Drew seemed frustrated throughout since they couldn't get going offensively but survived every attack Lycoming managed. Lycoming was able to turn them over and attack down the flanks successfully. As for top players no one really stood out. The 2 forwards will make you take notice with their size and skill but like I said neither of them ever got dangerous in the run of play. Although they do try and connect 1 touch through the middle but weren't successful with it. The one forward seemed to be the hot head on the team. I was impressed with whatever kid had the cast on his arm defensively. He seemed to be a ball winner despite his lack of size.

EB gives a more detailed description which seems fair although I was not as impressed with the 2 forwards as others have been I guess. Brandeis should be able to pick them apart but if they go down at any point it will be difficult to mount a comeback as seen in the last game.     

It is a straight up 3-5-2 from what I watched.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 15, 2017, 01:48:17 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 14, 2017, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2017, 08:30:18 PM
Shooter,

Seems like you were at the Lycoming v Drew game this past weekend....Give us some goods on Drew...Formation? How did they play Lycoming? Was Lycoming pressing them and how they deal with that? Who am I lookin at for their top players?

I posted this after their Landmark Championship...

Made the 45 minute drive to Madison to watch Drew vs. E-Town in the Landmark Championship.  I've seen them a few times via stream and wasn't super impressed, but seeing them in person today I get the feeling they are legit. At 19-0-1, they are certainly capable of making a very deep run in the tournament.  Yes I know their SOS isn't as impressive as others, but until someone demonstrates they can beat Drew, they are an elite 8, if not final 4, contender in my eyes.

While the stats may indicate today was a fairly close game, honestly there was never a doubt that Drew was going to win. Obviously they benefited from playing an only slightly-above-average E-Town team, but they have some serious talent. What's scary is they are loaded with underclassman having started only 2 seniors!

Forwards: Imoh and Cserhat, both sophomores, are extremely dangerous. Cserhat has an incredibly soft touch for someone that's 6'5.  He's not just a big body, but has skill and finesse. Simply put, he's hard to defend. He scored two today to bring his season total to 20. Imoh showed today why we was conference ROY last season and a Regional All-American.  He had two assists to bring his season numbers to 10g, 9a.  At 6'2, 200lbs, he's a beast who you cannot knock off the ball.  Although not overly speedy, he's still deceptively fast and has very good foot skills. He's as good, if not better, than Wasso from E-Town.   My only knock on Cserhat and Imoh is they are both lazy on D, don't track back, and are content to take their time getting back onside, thereby negating Drew's ability to play quickly forward after a MF turnover.

Midfielder: Martinez pulls the strings.  He too is a big body at 6'2, 195.  He plays as a holding MF, rarely taking more than 2 touches. He has great vision and is capable of making a crisp 40 yard pass.  Defensively he keeps it simple, tackling when necessary but usually just clogging the passing/dribbling lanes.  Audi, Kwak and Correra were extremely effective and have good motors - definitely the workhorses on the team. 

Defense: 3 in the back.  The elder Cserhat, at 6'3 is a fine CB.  Thought he took some unnecessary chances, but overall was pretty solid. Rodriguez at 6'1, 195 uses his size to his advantage and didn't really get beat. Goncalves is smaller but obviously quicker.  Both he and Rodriguez play simple and smart - rarely taking chances and are happy to play through Martinez or up top to Imoh and Cserhat. 

Keeper: Adamo wasn't really tested so it's hard to say what he's got.  Listed at 5'9" so that can certainly be a challenge. 

Subs: Drew went about 6 deep with any significant playing time - again mostly fresh/soph. In fact, their starting unit in the second half featured 4-5 bench players and they scored within the first 45 seconds.

Drew was incredibly impressive in the first half, less so in the second, but that could be because they were up 3-0 and had the bench getting a lot of minutes. In my opinion, this is not a team you want to play.  They have the size to play physically, and the skill to play pretty.  Imoh/Cserhat have to be one of the best 1-2 forward combinations in the country and either of them can beat you so you can't just focus on shutting down one of them.  I'd love to see a better work rate from them but maybe that's just me.

Now don't get me wrong, they are beatable, but I don't see it being 0-1. I can see losing 2-3 in OT, or perhaps PK's, but they will certainly be an interesting team to follow through the tournament.   


Thank you EB2319 / Mid-Atlantic / Shooter...All Very Well Done..+k...Like I said in the few highlights I have seen they look dangerous.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 15, 2017, 02:36:57 PM
Another Interesting Stat....

UR was 4-2-1 in the UAA but they had 4 Shutouts in those wins. When they did concede in those 3 other games they were giving up goals at an impressive rate..3 to Emory, 4 to Chicago and 1 to CMU.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
For Messiah's quadrant this weekend.  Previews of the teams will be up soon I expect..

http://gomessiah.com/sports/2017/11/13/MS111316-20161st2nd.aspx?id=311

Are you planning to be there, Rudy? I will probably spend the whole day in the stands, soaking in the magnificent cloud cover and drizzle, unless it just pours. I might have seen you at the Lyco game--were you perhaps sitting with another son who looks a lot like Shay?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 17, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
For Messiah's quadrant this weekend.  Previews of the teams will be up soon I expect..

http://gomessiah.com/sports/2017/11/13/MS111316-20161st2nd.aspx?id=311

Are you planning to be there, Rudy? I will probably spend the whole day in the stands, soaking in the magnificent cloud cover and drizzle, unless it just pours. I might have seen you at the Lyco game--were you perhaps sitting with another son who looks a lot like Shay?

Hi falconer. I was not at Lyco game. Only went to one game to this year in September..cant even remember the  team. I was going to go down this weekend but not sure we'll make it Saturday. If they win Saturday may head there for Sunday game....no rain Sunday! Hope the rain is minimal for Saturday games or the field will be mud by Sunday.  Are you an alumni, former player, or parent of former player? My other son is at college in Florida..not playing sports..guess he had his thrill in HS and couldn't match the team he played for in his junior year. Hope to meet up with you if you are there Sunday
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 01:44:48 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 17, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
For Messiah's quadrant this weekend.  Previews of the teams will be up soon I expect..

http://gomessiah.com/sports/2017/11/13/MS111316-20161st2nd.aspx?id=311

Are you planning to be there, Rudy? I will probably spend the whole day in the stands, soaking in the magnificent cloud cover and drizzle, unless it just pours. I might have seen you at the Lyco game--were you perhaps sitting with another son who looks a lot like Shay?

Hi falconer. I was not at Lyco game. Only went to one game to this year in September..cant even remember the  team. I was going to go down this weekend but not sure we'll make it Saturday. If they win Saturday may head there for Sunday game....no rain Sunday! Hope the rain is minimal for Saturday games or the field will be mud by Sunday.  Are you an alumni, former player, or parent of former player? My other son is at college in Florida..not playing sports..guess he had his thrill in HS and couldn't match the team he played for in his junior year. Hope to meet up with you if you are there Sunday

I'll be there on both days (should Messiah take care of business on Sat.).  It would be great to meet up with both of you (and any other forum members who might be there).

Falconer, it's possible that I'm the one you saw at the Lyco game.  I was by there by myself (wife was working and BIL didn't go due to the rain).  Midway through the first half, a young man came up and sat beside me.  When the rain picked back up, I offered to share my umbrella.  It turns out that he is a 2nd semester H.S. senior (Carlisle) and will be coming to Messiah in the spring and joining the team as a GK.  His name is Jared Pavlovich and could definitely pass as Shay Quinton's brother.  He seemed like a really nice kid and it was fun to hear his perspective on the game.  Here's a video I found of him and some teammates taken before their season started.   http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/-4779733317751309297/carlisle-boys-soccer-has-a-great-group-in-2017/
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 17, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Are you an alumni, former player, or parent of former player?

None of the above, actually. Just a longtime Falcon fan, who was drawn into soccer by the beautiful way they play it. I go to as many games as I can, but I am often out of town on business or to visit family so I miss more than my share. I'm glad this particular weekend actually works out favorably.   :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 01:44:48 PM

I'll be there on both days (should Messiah take care of business on Sat.).  It would be great to meet up with both of you (and any other forum members who might be there).

Falconer, it's possible that I'm the one you saw at the Lyco game.  I was by there by myself (wife was working and BIL didn't go due to the rain).  Midway through the first half, a young man came up and sat beside me.  When the rain picked back up, I offered to share my umbrella.  It turns out that he is a 2nd semester H.S. senior (Carlisle) and will be coming to Messiah in the spring and joining the team as a GK.  His name is Jared Pavlovich and could definitely pass as Shay Quinton's brother. 

That might be right, Dave B. I noticed that young man somewhere after halftime, I think, when I stood up to rearrange my wet stuff and had a look around the stands. Thanks for the tip about an incoming player. I like to track that sort of information, but since I'm not close to the team it's not easy to obtain. The best source is usually parents of current players, and sometimes I'll talk to them at games--many of them attend regularly, but they don't often know many specifics about the incoming group. Now, I can put a name on just two of next year's class. I did hear that one was a GK, and you've confirmed it for me.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 17, 2017, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 01:56:46 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 17, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Are you an alumni, former player, or parent of former player?

None of the above, actually. Just a longtime Falcon fan, who was drawn into soccer by the beautiful way they play it. I go to as many games as I can, but I am often out of town on business or to visit family so I miss more than my share. I'm glad this particular weekend actually works out favorably.   :)

If I were local I'd do the same. Enjoy the games! It's great how they fill the place with thousands of fans... classmates, local community, alumni. The atmosphere is amazing.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Saint of Old on November 17, 2017, 04:45:51 PM
Yes indeed.
Played the crusaders in the dance once, and they have a great environment to get the best out of their team, really the atmosphere all soccer players love to be in whether home or away.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2017, 05:50:54 PM
Settling in to watch the Men's Finalerrr, I mean, the Central Sectional semifinal.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 06:11:32 PM
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I get home at 6:09 and it's 2-0. I figured this one would be a slow burner. >:(

And now a lightning delay, 10 seconds after I tune in! Wow. Rotten luck or... #BlootsConspiracy
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 06:14:38 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 06:11:32 PM
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I get home at 6:09 and it's 2-0. I figured this one would be a slow burner. >:(

And now a lightning delay, 10 seconds after I tune in! Wow. Rotten luck or... #BlootsConspiracy

Same here.  I tuned in just as the 2nd goal was being scored.  Wow! 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 06:16:05 PM
Just saw the goals. Props to Adeyosun for having the chutzpah to try that near-post power shot, it would have been predictable for him to go low far corner but well done to him. Lopez's goal, couldn't tell if it was deflected or the 'keeper misjudged but Calvin won't like to watch that one (either of them, actually) again.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 06:16:47 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2017, 05:50:54 PM
Settling in to watch the Men's Finalerrr, I mean, the Central Sectional semifinal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc

(PaulNewman may appreciate.)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 17, 2017, 06:17:35 PM
Missed the first goal, but saw the second.  Crazy!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 17, 2017, 06:19:25 PM
Great break for Calvin.  Chicago was laying it on them.  Great strike upper 90 by adeyoson in the first minute and Lopez from 18 a few minutes later.  Chicago was much more the aggressor.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 06:20:49 PM
Usually I am very good about not missing kickoffs, but the red line was awful tonight. Even with both teams having strong attacks I figured "ah, it's fine, they'll both spend the opening 20 trying to get a feel for the game." Guess I was wrong (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j63m5SMXxzo).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 06:21:09 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 17, 2017, 06:17:35 PM
Missed the first goal, but saw the second.  Crazy!

Rewind to about 12:55 for the first goal.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 17, 2017, 06:48:17 PM
if they cannot get the game in tonight, it resets to zero when they replay, correct?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 06:57:47 PM
is the weather delaying the game ??
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 07:46:52 PM
We have a pulse.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 17, 2017, 07:49:34 PM
Game has restarted
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 08:21:24 PM
John Madden: "These two teams are really, really good."
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 17, 2017, 08:42:26 PM
Looks as if once Chicago got the early lead they are playing long balls deep to their forwards, if nothing else but to make Calvin build up from deep in their zone.  Seems to be working, but I do feel Calvin may get at least one.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 08:46:00 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 17, 2017, 08:42:26 PM
Looks as if once Chicago got the early lead they are playing long balls deep to their forwards, if nothing else but to make Calvin build up from deep in their zone.  Seems to be working, but I do feel Calvin may get at least one.

I agree. If Calvin gets one in the next 5 it's a new game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 08:51:10 PM
What a save by van Ryn.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 08:54:03 PM
Lopez and Adeyosun with some really nice moves...unfortunately no one can finish.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 09:39:14 PM
sucks to see Calvin go out at this point. game 100% should've been an elite 8 game but hey you have to take care of business either way. congrats to chicago
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: swibbles on November 17, 2017, 09:39:39 PM
Chicago 2-0 Calvin final. Maroons deserved winners. The Emory v Hardin Baylor game getting a very late start due to the inclement weather earlier.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 17, 2017, 09:40:24 PM
Yeah. But they got the two early and showed what Looked like the recipe to beating Calvin.  Get a lead and throw the balls deep out of your defensive third and make them continually build from the back. Nice win for Chicago.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:08:05 PM
that ref has to be at least 7 foot tall. am I the only one who saw this
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 10:11:12 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:08:05 PM
that ref has to be at least 7 foot tall. am I the only one who saw this

I was just going to say that!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 10:11:12 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:08:05 PM
that ref has to be at least 7 foot tall. am I the only one who saw this

I was just going to say that!

hahah it's safe to say nothing will go over his head tonight

let's hope for a fun filled action packed game
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:20:57 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:13:26 PM
hahah it's safe to say nothing will go over his head tonight

let's hope for a fun filled action packed game

+K for the pun
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:33:15 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:20:57 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:13:26 PM
hahah it's safe to say nothing will go over his head tonight

let's hope for a fun filled action packed game

+K for the pun

hahaha thanks!! and what a goal! nottt
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:34:04 PM
Poor goalkeeping but I do feel for him somewhat, as his CB should have won the header I thought.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:34:33 PM
Oof! Just over!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 17, 2017, 10:35:28 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:34:33 PM
Oof! Just over!


WHAT IS GOING ON?!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:35:51 PM
Emory taking a page from the Chicago "score 2 in 2 minutes" book.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:37:27 PM
Somewhere the Emory announcer is yelling "MEYER!!!!!!!!!" again. I hate to quote myself, but it's pertinent.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 04, 2017, 06:49:02 PM
Well, the Emory announcer might win the award for commentator of the year after his excited (albeit unintelligible) commentary from Emory's winner today. (Joking about the award, but I did enjoy it.) Really nice hit from the Emory kid, who put enough power on it to beat the UR goalkeeper at his near post.

Goal is at 2:12:39 from today's broadcast. https://emory.prestosports.com/sports/msoc/live

Edit: Video isn't there anymore. Ah well.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2017, 11:19:35 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 10:35:51 PM
Emory taking a page from the Chicago "score 2 in 2 minutes" book.
Somehow live stats is showing that the two goals were scored 7 seconds apart instead of closer to 2 minutes.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 17, 2017, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2017, 11:19:35 PM
Somehow live stats is showing that the two goals were scored 7 seconds apart instead of closer to 2 minutes.

Huh, weird. Looking at the field clock, 27:11 and 25:01 were when the clock stopped following the two, so 2:10 apart is what I'll go with.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 12:07:42 AM
And we have a game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 12:18:56 AM
After some nervy moments in the last 5, Emory sees the game out 2-1. Second Elite 8 in history and first since 1988.

Well, after nine years of no Final 4 teams, the UAA will now have (at least) two in two successive years, as conference foes Emory and Chicago face off tomorrow night for the Sectional title. Whether or not that translates into anything more than a Final 4 appearance on the CV for the UAA, we don't know, but two better showings from the conference on the national stage than in recent years -- and certainly good on Chicago for getting by Calvin and overcoming its Sweet 16 demons of a year ago in style.

As for tomorrow today, what a game that will be! Chicago will be the favorite, but Emory shouldn't be discounted. The Eagles are the only team to have beaten Chicago at home this year -- and by a scoreline of 3-0. Should be fun.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 12:23:36 AM
As an aside, that Meyer goal in OT against Rochester (and the late equalizer from Santee) in the last game of the regular season looks bigger with Emory win. At that point, I thought they were very much on the bubble, and probably the wrong side of it, but they've certainly made the most of their new lease on life.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2017, 01:06:11 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 12:18:56 AM
As for tomorrow today, what a game that will be! Chicago will be the favorite, but Emory shouldn't be discounted. The Eagles are the only team to have beaten Chicago at home this year

Not so.

http://www.d3soccer.com/seasons/men/2017/boxscores/20171018_k1fv.xml
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 07:36:53 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2017, 01:06:11 AM
Not so.

http://www.d3soccer.com/seasons/men/2017/boxscores/20171018_k1fv.xml

Whoops — thought (incorrectly) that the North Park game was at NPU.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 08:22:48 AM
Well, as has been the forecast all week, it's still looking like rain from start to finish of today's games at the Northeast Sectional at Messiah College.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 18, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 08:22:48 AM
Well, as has been the forecast all week, it's still looking like rain from start to finish of today's games at the Northeast Sectional at Messiah College.

Are you in Grantham today? Has rain started and is it going to be heavy or light rain? Hoping it stays light so no puddles accumulate.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on November 18, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 18, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 08:22:48 AM
Well, as has been the forecast all week, it's still looking like rain from start to finish of today's games at the Northeast Sectional at Messiah College.

Are you in Grantham today? Has rain started and is it going to be heavy or light rain? Hoping it stays light so no puddles accumulate.

It started at 9:00.  Moderate right now, but the WeatherUnderground App is saying that we'll get about 1/2 an inch between now and 1, so it will probably pick up.    :(
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:43:58 AM
That will certainly favor the underdogs if it is serious rain all day.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:47:01 AM
Having watched a ton of D3 games this year I can say even before the UAA's success in this years NCAA's that it was the best league this year by far. Top to Bottom the toughest competition besides NYU. CMU certainly has a case for not getting into the NCAA's as they were snubbed.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:53:20 AM
Quote from: swibbles on November 17, 2017, 09:39:39 PM
Chicago 2-0 Calvin final. Maroons deserved winners. The Emory v Hardin Baylor game getting a very late start due to the inclement weather earlier.

I unfortunately missed the heavyweight battle of Chicago v Calvin. I had seen both teams this year about 4 times each and as good as Chicago is I am still a bit shocked they dispatched of Calvin and shut them out. Calvin played some of the best soccer on the 1st Weekend of the NCAA's and I thought they looked pretty unbeatable but obviously Chicago had something to say about that. That makes tonight's matchup v Emory all the more interesting. Both teams know each other well and Chicago will want revenge from their worst loss of the season. For Emory it is always hard to beat the same team twice in 1 year but they will have the confidence to do it. Both teams really playing well. Looking forward to that game
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:54:13 AM
WOW...Messiah playing on turf?  Field looks a bit narrow on the stream
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 18, 2017, 10:54:41 AM
Quote from: Dave B on November 18, 2017, 09:31:32 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 18, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 08:22:48 AM
Well, as has been the forecast all week, it's still looking like rain from start to finish of today's games at the Northeast Sectional at Messiah College.

Are you in Grantham today? Has rain started and is it going to be heavy or light rain? Hoping it stays light so no puddles accumulate.

It started at 9:00.  Moderate right now, but the WeatherUnderground App is saying that we'll get about 1/2 an inch between now and 1, so it will probably pick up.    :(

Video fed just got up. Looks like they moved to the turf. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 11:22:56 AM
Stupid foul..Messiah gets a PK...1-0 Messiah
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: tjcummingsfan on November 18, 2017, 02:08:18 PM
North Park takes care of Washington & Lee 3-0 to advance to the Elite 8 for the first time.  North Park looked in control of most of this game after an initial push by W&L. I was particularly impressed by North Park's vision and patience in the box. 

I look forward to the St. Thomas and Otterbein game and seeing who NP will face next. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 02:19:12 PM
Brandeis and Drew just getting ready to kick off in Medford.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 02:26:12 PM
Oh man...What a chance for Brandeis Mike Lynch in the 1st minute of the game. A nice run but he could not get on the end of a nice ball..Would have liked to see him get a toe to that.

1 minute later Lynch gets on the end of a set piece with his head but it just goes wide..Another nice chance..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 02:27:51 PM
Messiah played very well on the turf lacrosse field today, dominating the first half and at least even overall in the second half. Stevens got a beautiful goal on a long open kick off a restart and a second on a rocket from outside the box on a failed clearance--I think the Falcon keeper was screened out of that one, but it would have been a tough save anyway. The Falcons got three solid goals, including a properly called PK for the first. The second goal was a terrific combination, a lovely cross from Colby on the right wing to Nick West, who leaped and smacked it in from very close with his left foot--keeper just had no chance on that one. The last Falcon goal also involved Colby, but instead of the usual rocket he faked the defense and rather gently lofted one to the goal line, where either it crossed on its own or else was tapped in by a defender. A solid win, marking the first time in four years that the Falcons have gone to the Elite Eight.

The rain was constant and cold. A really lousy day to watch or play soccer, but there were no other options given the pooling on the regular pitch. Perhaps that will be available tomorrow, when the opponent might be Amherst, since they are up 1-0 over Rochester the usual way: a header off a set play. If they end up playing Messiah tomorrow, they represent perhaps the most dangerous possible opponent for the Falcons, who are not good at defending in the air. On the other hand, Rochester is holding their own in the MF, and the Falcons can probably possess effectively against the Mammoths, so if they can finish (as they did today) it will be a dandy game. I'd rather see Rochester, all the same.

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 02:44:04 PM
Brandeis really possessing well in the 1st Half but need to generate some more chances against this Drew side. Not sure what I make of Drew just yet.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 02:49:14 PM
Jesus...Lynch almost got his head to a a cross but just missed...Lynch has had about 3 SERIOUS looks to score here in the 1st half. If Brandeis does not pull this game he will be kicking  himself
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 02:51:17 PM
Berg a harmless 25 yard bomb that Drew's GK really misplays and almost drops it right onto a Brandeis strikers foot. Brandeis MUST keep shooting on this Drew GK as he looks a bit shaky...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 03:09:32 PM
0-0 Brandeis and Drew at the Half..A good Half for Brandeis but they might be kicking themselves that they did not score
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 03:09:32 PM
0-0 Brandeis and Drew at the Half..A good Half for Brandeis but they might be kicking themselves that they did not score

Yeah, just looking at the stats it appears Brandeis had the better chances. Gotta put one away when you're on top.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:29:48 PM
Goal for Brandeis!!!! Mike Lynch, OF COURSEEEE
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:29:48 PM
Goal for Brandeis!!!! Mike Lynch, OF COURSEEEE

And Ocel sets a new school record for assists!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:31:17 PM
Rochester ties it, 1-1. Amherst pays for playing around.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:31:17 PM
Rochester ties it, 1-1. Amherst pays for playing around.

Let's go Yellowjackets!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 03:32:25 PM
Brandeis is just dominating this game...Drew's fitness is a question as Brandeis ir running them ragged. They are doing a ton of chasing.


Haha...Lynch with a great header from Ocel off a set piece...Nice header by Lynch
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:33:05 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:29:48 PM
Goal for Brandeis!!!! Mike Lynch, OF COURSEEEE

And Ocel sets a new school record for assists!

What a talent. I played with his brother and they are such different players but equally skilled.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:33:49 PM
AND--a second for Rochester. Amherst is giving away the store.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:33:49 PM
AND--a second for Rochester. Amherst is giving away the store.

Let's go inside the mind of Serpone...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:33:05 PM
What a talent. I played with his brother and they are such different players but equally skilled.

Agreed. Sam was a big-game player, and so is Josh. Both were excellent yet very different, Sam as a striker in the final third and Josh all over the field, but I do remember someone saying after Sam was named an All-American "you wait, his brother is even better." I scoffed at the possibility that they could be on the same level, figuring it was impossible, but clearly I was mistaken.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:43:24 PM
AMherst playing with real urgency now. If they had done so 15 minutes ago, they'd still have a lead.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:46:18 PM
Is the UAA about to get 4 teams into the elite 8? INSANE
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:47:29 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:33:05 PM
What a talent. I played with his brother and they are such different players but equally skilled.

Agreed. Sam was a big-game player, and so is Josh. Both were excellent yet very different, Sam as a striker in the final third and Josh all over the field, but I do remember someone saying after Sam was named an All-American "you wait, his brother is even better." I scoffed at the possibility that they could be on the same level, figuring it was impossible, but clearly I was mistaken.

After my senior year i played in summer league with both of them. Josh was only 17/18 at the time, but it was clear he would be a fantastic talent as well.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 18, 2017, 03:51:30 PM
amherst does it again. Not a strong showing from the NESCAC today
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
ROCHESTER TAKES OUT AMHERST, 2-1. Out of control at the end, when Amherst was hitting everyone in sight without any whistles.

Falcon fans are thanking Rochester for making the world safer for democracy. Or, something like that.   :o
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 03:53:55 PM
Amherst season ends to UR 2-1 and again Serpone is going to need to recruit a GK because the GK's in his program right now are not good enough...Stone cost them today. Way to many GK errors led to Amherst losses this season..It was a very wet day but UR's shot was a harmless hit that Stone coughed up and from there UR gained a ton of confidence.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 03:52:13 PM
ROCHESTER TAKES OUT AMHERST, 2-1. Out of control at the end, when Amherst was hitting everyone in sight without any whistles.

Falcon fans are thanking Rochester for making the world safer for democracy. Or, something like that.   :o

Classic Amherst. If you can't beat them, foul the **** out of them.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 04:00:33 PM
Hopefully they flew to Baltimore and drove the hour up to PA because that is ONE LONG BUS RIDE home if they did not fly
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 04:03:10 PM
Meanwhile we have a Boston derby coming because Brandeis is going to take down Drew here....I have not been impressed with Drew today as they have not really threatened today as I cannot remember a dangerous chance today for Drew.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 18, 2017, 04:03:59 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 04:00:33 PM
Hopefully they flew to Baltimore and drove the hour up to PA because that is ONE LONG BUS RIDE home if they did not fly

It's actually about two hours from Grantham to BWI, Mr Right, even on a Saturday evening. Always takes at least 90-100 minutes to Camden Yards. As you say, one long bus ride otherwise.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 04:03:10 PM
Meanwhile we have a Boston derby coming because Brandeis is going to take down Drew here....I have not been impressed with Drew today as they have not really threatened today as I cannot remember a dangerous chance today for Drew.

Almost jinxed us Mr. Right! That was close.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
A tad nervy for Brandeis here as Drew had their best chance of the day with 3 minutes left in the game when Woodhouse bobbled one a bit...


SO:

Brandeis at Tufts  Elite 8 tomorrow....Gotta love that...Brandeis is gonna want a piece...Big time game...Lookin forward to that one
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 04:13:33 PM
I wonder if a single conference has EVER had 4 teams in the elite 8. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 04:15:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 04:11:32 PM
A tad nervy for Brandeis here as Drew had their best chance of the day with 3 minutes left in the game when Woodhouse bobbled one a bit...


SO:

Brandeis at Tufts  Elite 8 tomorrow....Gotta love that...Brandeis is gonna want a piece...Big time game...Lookin forward to that one

A matchup worthy of an Elite 8 battle. Well done Judges! Regardless of the way it goes, the team that moves on will certainly deserve to go to the Final 4.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but well done to UR. (It should be noted that my distaste for them is mostly because they are always a tough game, regardless of record.) They have certainly proved a few doubters (myself included) wrong.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 18, 2017, 07:04:42 PM
The Brandeis - Drew game was not as close at the score suggests. The Judges were in control throughout.  I saw that Drew was undefeated before today, so I congratulate them for a fantastic season, but they were not an Elite 8 team today.

It will be interesting to see if Brandeis can handle Tufts' pressure tomorrow.  I could easily see that game going to PKs too.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 08:11:40 PM
Suprise Suprise....10 minutes in and Chicago goes up 1-0 on Emory on a Lopez header....Unreal...Kid is a stud...Outjumped the GK for the ball..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 08:15:05 PM
The Emory keeper has to go up stronger for that ball.  Seemed he shyed away from it.  Max Lopez header off a cross to give Chicago the 1-0 lead about ten minutes in.  Would love to see a better, closer view of that as it seemed that there was a bit of contact between Lopez and the keeper.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 08:29:17 PM
Emory growing into the game here as they have settled down. Emory's Christian Meyer uses his speed to create a legit chance that was hit just wide. Kid meyer has another gear,,Very pacey
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 08:32:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 08:15:05 PM
The Emory keeper has to go up stronger for that ball.  Seemed he shyed away from it.  Max Lopez header off a cross to give Chicago the 1-0 lead about ten minutes in.  Would love to see a better, closer view of that as it seemed that there was a bit of contact between Lopez and the keeper.

Yea it is difficult to see because the camera angle is so distant..

Meanwhile looks like Chicago's GK Hill Bonin is back playing playing this weekend so he must have been injured earlier this month...

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 08:49:07 PM
1-0 Chicago at the Half. Emory hanging in there but Chicago has had the better of the chances...Emory's GK keeping them in it..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 18, 2017, 08:50:45 PM
Brandeis absolutely handles Drew with ease. you could tell that brandeis has been there before and Drew just couldn't settle in at all. they still get kudos on a great season and making it this far but as someone stated before they are not an elite 8 caliber team
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 18, 2017, 09:01:29 PM
The keeper for Emory is a freshman and quick as a cat, but he is small, I believe 5'10, maybe 5'11.  The game earlier this year at Chicago he was spectacular.  Chicago had a goal called back in that game and that keeper made 4 or 5 unbelievable saves.   IMHO Lopez got to his Apex before the keeper did and got over him.  The ref was looking right at it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:07:49 PM
What a GOAL...Fantastic Header off a corner...1-1   4 min into 2nd half
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 09:08:56 PM
Outside of the goal by Lopez, the Emory keeper has looked good.

Well, we have ourselves a game.  Great header by Emory to knot the game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:16:56 PM
Jeez...Emory has come out very strong to start the 2nd Half..I think it was #10 Koh who lost his man for a split second on Emory's Goal off the corner. It was also a big height advantage. Chicago looks a bit sluggish to start the Half. Emory's Meyer causing all sorts of problems for Chicago down the flank
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:21:12 PM
Lopez just misses another goal off a corner as he headed it off the crossbar...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 09:30:43 PM
Looked clearly offside to me.  The Chicago player headed over the wall to Lopez who had already made his run in behind.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:32:07 PM
Lopez scores a goal off a deflected free kick but was called offsides..It was clearly offside....still.....This Lopez has a nose for the goal....Gotta be the best striker in D3 BY FAR
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:44:54 PM
It has been all Chicago the last 15-20 minutes as Emory has barely crossed half-field...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:51:06 PM
Chicago v Emory 1-1 heading to OT....
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Medicated Pete on November 18, 2017, 09:51:44 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:51:06 PM
Chicago v Emory 1-1 heading to OT....
the camera person  :o ::)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:58:49 PM
Why do I have the feeling that Chicago will be undisciplined in PK's...Maybe just a hunch but I think Chicago needs to go out and win this thing
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Medicated Pete on November 18, 2017, 09:59:48 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 09:58:49 PM
Why do I have the feeling that Chicago will be undisciplined in PK's...Maybe just a hunch but I think Chicago needs to go out and win this thing
Getting that feeling in my stomach :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:09:31 PM
Take your meds
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:14:07 PM
Emory warming up a GK on the side with 5 minutes left in OT....
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 10:14:21 PM
Just tuned in...well it sounds like we have half of the Freetown Christiania duo. Come to think of it he sounds just like Butters from South Park. He is definitely amusing.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2017, 10:14:27 PM
So close for Emory.  Almost had it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:21:09 PM
PK's it is....
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
Love how they do the highlights during breaks...Big Fan....I am pulling for Chicago...TBH..I would like to see them in the Final 4...


Both teams changing GK's...Kinda glad Chicago is
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 10:14:21 PM
Just tuned in...well it sounds like we have half of the Freetown Christiania duo. Come to think of it he sounds just like Butters from South Park. He is definitely amusing.

Lol...He has actually been ok this game...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:27:59 PM
Chicago has been absolutely CLINICAL so far in PK's...3-3
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Chicago just CLINICAL...They deserve it....


NOTE:   Emory's GK WAS NOT NEAR any of those PK's....Why make that change? The Emory starter was a lightning quick GK that might have gotten to maybe 1 of those....

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 18, 2017, 10:33:26 PM
Fair play to Chicago. They were very professional in the shootout. Congrats to the Maroons on advancing to the Final 4!

Great season for Emory. Heartbreaking end, but they went way further than I think anyone expected them to.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 18, 2017, 10:36:20 PM
Congrats to Chicago in the Final Four! well deserved, worked hard for it all season while playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 18, 2017, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Chicago just CLINICAL...They deserve it....


NOTE:   Emory's GK WAS NOT NEAR any of those PK's....Why make that change? The Emory starter was a lightning quick GK that might have gotten to maybe 1 of those....

Yeah I don't get that.  Maybe because he's a freshman without the experience.  The guy they brought in was quite large, but you're right he didn't seem real comfortable.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 11:03:13 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 18, 2017, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Chicago just CLINICAL...They deserve it....


NOTE:   Emory's GK WAS NOT NEAR any of those PK's....Why make that change? The Emory starter was a lightning quick GK that might have gotten to maybe 1 of those....

Yeah I don't get that.  Maybe because he's a freshman without the experience.  The guy they brought in was quite large, but you're right he didn't seem real comfortable.


Exactly,,,,The other GK like you said was quick as a cat but the GK off the bench almost looked immobile....Still an Elite 8 for an interim Head Coach is not bad. As long as the players give him decent reviews I am sure he will have a leg up on anyone else although maybe still a bit young..Still have no clue why Travis resigned to be an AD in Iowa....Oh Well...They do lose a ton of quality seniors so unless he gets a legit class they might struggle for a year or 2.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 18, 2017, 11:59:01 PM
Conference representation in Elite 8:

CCIW - 1 team
MAC Commonwealth - 1 team
NESCAC - 1 team
MIAC 1 team
UAA - 4 teams (some one else asked this earlier, but has this ever been accomplished before)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 19, 2017, 12:17:25 AM
While Rouin is obviously a very good player, and what he did today was amazing, I thought the way Amherst represented him in the game recap on their website was interesting...

"...a heroic effort by Yellow Jacket Geoffrey Rouin that saw one of the nation's top scorers register two goals in a three minute span directed the University of Rochester past the No. 16 Amherst College men's soccer team, 2-1 in NCAA Championship Third Round play Saturday afternoon at Starry Turf Field."

Rouin came into the game:
72nd in the nation in total goals
83rd in the nation in goals per game
116th in the nation in total points

Maybe that qualifies as "one of the nation's top scorers"...what do you guys think?  Doesn't really matter, but it sorta stood out to me.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 19, 2017, 12:34:01 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 04:13:33 PM
I wonder if a single conference has EVER had 4 teams in the elite 8. Unbelievable.

No, of course this has never happened before. In fact, no conference has ever had three teams in the Elite 8 before. And, to be realistic, this is something that is almost only possible for a conference like UAA that is so geographically diverse.

Up through 1996, with the tournament field size growing from the initial 16 to 24 to 32, the bracketing was strictly regional (note: no AQs). That is, four teams were selected from each region and they played each other in the first two rounds. So it was impossible for all conferences except those with teams assigned to different regions (maybe just the UAA & SCAC) to have two teams reach the Elite 8, much less four. And only a few conferences had a chance of monopolizing all four selections for their region. The huge, four-division Middle Atlantic Conference (MAC) could at times (twice in the 80's with the 24-team field, and three times to start the 90's with the 32-team field before the defection of the Centennial schools). And the NJAC would gain all four Metro selections for all but one year from 1990 to 1998. The NCAC took all Great Lakes spots in 1992. And after NESCAC allow their teams to participate starting in 1993, they took all four New England berths in 1995.

Very little changed with the expansion to a 40-team field for the 1997 and 1998 seasons, with proportional representation giving some regions a share of the additional 8 berths (e.g. New England gained three more berths). The bracketing remained regional with one exception: one New England team each year was shipped to the Metro Region. So even though the NJAC and NESCAC would get four teams selected both years, only in 1997 when the fourth (weakest) NESCAC team was the New England team shipped to the Metro Region was it even possible for a conference to have two Elite 8 teams (and Trinity-CT couldn't navigate through the NJACMetro region, and that was that.).

The tournament field increased to 44 teams in 1999 to accommodate the introduction of the AQs. But the AQs meant it was much more difficult for a conference to have multiple representatives as there were only three or four Pool C at-large berths initially, growing to five while the field remained at 44 through the 2004 season. During this six-year period, only once did a conference have three teams in the tournament: NJAC in 2001. And with the brackets still mostly, but no longer strictly, regional through 2001, the few times a conference has two teams in, they met in the Sweet 16 round. In 2002, the bracketing, especially of the four eastern regions, really started to become more flexible and the first conference to take advantage of that and have two Elite 8 teams was not one of the conferences you'd probably guess: it was the NEWMAC in 2003 with MIT and Wheaton (Mass.) whose paths would meet in the quarterfinals. The feat wouldn't be repeated until the tournament field expanded again in 2005. 

With the adoption of an access ratio (1 spot for every 6.5 eligible teams) to determine the field size (up to a maximum of 64), 2005 saw the tournament field grow substantially to 57 teams. This meant 15 or so Pool C at-large berths and a much better chance for the top conference to get three or four teams into the tournament, maybe even five in the case of the geographically dispersed UAA. The jump in at-large berths combined with a conscious effort to inter-regionalize the bracketing meant more realistic potential for multiple Elite 8 teams from the same conference. The SUNYAC, with three teams in the tournament, would immediately become the second conference with a pair of Elite 8 teams when Plattsburgh St. and Fredonia St. both reached the 2005 quarterfinals. The UAA would have four and five teams in the 2005 and 2006 tournaments, but never more than one Elite 8 team. The Centennial got four teams into the 2007 tournament, but none even reached the Sweet 16.

From 2008 to 2011, the field grew by one team each year, arriving at 61 in 2011 and with fewer and fewer independents and non-AQ conferences (i.e. fewer Pool B at-large berths), the number of Pool C at-large berths grew to 19. However, even with just two teams in the 2008 tournament, the NESCAC became the third conference in tournament history with two Elite 8 teams when both defending champion Middlebury and Amherst reached the quarterfinals. The next two years (2009, 2010) the NESCAC got four teams into the tournament for the first time in over a decade, and repeated the feat in 2010 when Bowdoin and Middlebury met each other in a quarterfinal match. It should be noted that in both years the bracketing meant the most the NESCAC could have gotten into the Elite 8 was two as they were put on two Sweet 16 collision courses each year, all in the same quadrant in 2010.

From 2010 through last year, the only conference to get four or more teams into the tournament was the UAA: four teams in 2012, 2014 and 2015; five in 2012 and 2016. But only twice in those five years did even one UAA reach the quarterfinals. Due perhaps more to it being a down year across the rest of the New England region than its own strength, the NESCAC had five entrants this year and favorable bracketing that allowed up to four to reach the Elite 8, but of course only one did. The UAA with their four entrants this year, defied tournament history, UAA precedent, and the odds to not only become just the fifth conference with multiple Elite 8 teams, not just the first with more than two Elite 8 teams, but they got all four entrants to the doorstep of the Final Four.

Not only does the UAA, due to the combination of their quality and their geographical dispersal, have the best chance of having four or more tournament participants, but they also stand a better chance that their teams will avoid each other until deeper into the tournament. While the NESCAC may be equal or stronger than the UAA in most years, it's simply more difficult to get as many teams selected by coming out of the same region and more likely they run into each other prior to the quarterfinals.  And the same would apply to any other conference that would get strong enough to get four teams into the tournament. So in many ways, it's not even fair to ask if any other conference has ever had four Elite 8 teams.

That's not to take away from the accomplishment it is for the UAA to have four Elite 8 teams. Sure, to a large extent the UAA is uniquely situated to be able to have a shot at doing this, but the UAA had never previously had two Elite 8 teams. In fact, they never had more than two Sweet 16 teams. So congratulations to the UAA for finally living up to the hype and making history!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 19, 2017, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 19, 2017, 12:17:25 AM
While Rouin is obviously a very good player, and what he did today was amazing, I thought the way Amherst represented him in the game recap on their website was interesting...

"...a heroic effort by Yellow Jacket Geoffrey Rouin that saw one of the nation's top scorers register two goals in a three minute span directed the University of Rochester past the No. 16 Amherst College men's soccer team, 2-1 in NCAA Championship Third Round play Saturday afternoon at Starry Turf Field."

Rouin came into the game:
72nd in the nation in total goals
83rd in the nation in goals per game
116th in the nation in total points

Maybe that qualifies as "one of the nation's top scorers"...what do you guys think?  Doesn't really matter, but it sorta stood out to me.

Maybe his mom is the SID?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 19, 2017, 07:58:18 AM
Quote from: Dave B on November 17, 2017, 01:44:48 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 17, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 17, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2017, 12:21:13 PM
For Messiah's quadrant this weekend.  Previews of the teams will be up soon I expect..

http://gomessiah.com/sports/2017/11/13/MS111316-20161st2nd.aspx?id=311

Are you planning to be there, Rudy? I will probably spend the whole day in the stands, soaking in the magnificent cloud cover and drizzle, unless it just pours. I might have seen you at the Lyco game--were you perhaps sitting with another son who looks a lot like Shay?

Hi falconer. I was not at Lyco game. Only went to one game to this year in September..cant even remember the  team. I was going to go down this weekend but not sure we'll make it Saturday. If they win Saturday may head there for Sunday game....no rain Sunday! Hope the rain is minimal for Saturday games or the field will be mud by Sunday.  Are you an alumni, former player, or parent of former player? My other son is at college in Florida..not playing sports..guess he had his thrill in HS and couldn't match the team he played for in his junior year. Hope to meet up with you if you are there Sunday

I'll be there on both days (should Messiah take care of business on Sat.).  It would be great to meet up with both of you (and any other forum members who might be there).

Falconer, it's possible that I'm the one you saw at the Lyco game.  I was by there by myself (wife was working and BIL didn't go due to the rain).  Midway through the first half, a young man came up and sat beside me.  When the rain picked back up, I offered to share my umbrella.  It turns out that he is a 2nd semester H.S. senior (Carlisle) and will be coming to Messiah in the spring and joining the team as a GK.  His name is Jared Pavlovich and could definitely pass as Shay Quinton's brother.  He seemed like a really nice kid and it was fun to hear his perspective on the game.  Here's a video I found of him and some teammates taken before their season started.   http://highschoolsports.pennlive.com/news/article/-4779733317751309297/carlisle-boys-soccer-has-a-great-group-in-2017/

Sent you a private message Dave B.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 11:10:14 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 19, 2017, 12:34:01 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2017, 04:13:33 PM
I wonder if a single conference has EVER had 4 teams in the elite 8. Unbelievable.

No, of course this has never happened before. In fact, no conference has ever had three teams in the Elite 8 before. And, to be realistic, this is something that is almost only possible for a conference like UAA that is so geographically diverse.

Up through 1996, with the tournament field size growing from the initial 16 to 24 to 32, the bracketing was strictly regional (note: no AQs). That is, four teams were selected from each region and they played each other in the first two rounds. So it was impossible for all conferences except those with teams assigned to different regions (maybe just the UAA & SCAC) to have two teams reach the Elite 8, much less four. And only a few conferences had a chance of monopolizing all four selections for their region. The huge, four-division Middle Atlantic Conference (MAC) could at times (twice in the 80's with the 24-team field, and three times to start the 90's with the 32-team field before the defection of the Centennial schools). And the NJAC would gain all four Metro selections for all but one year from 1990 to 1998. The NCAC took all Great Lakes spots in 1992. And after NESCAC allow their teams to participate starting in 1993, they took all four New England berths in 1995.

Very little changed with the expansion to a 40-team field for the 1997 and 1998 seasons, with proportional representation giving some regions a share of the additional 8 berths (e.g. New England gained three more berths). The bracketing remained regional with one exception: one New England team each year was shipped to the Metro Region. So even though the NJAC and NESCAC would get four teams selected both years, only in 1997 when the fourth (weakest) NESCAC team was the New England team shipped to the Metro Region was it even possible for a conference to have two Elite 8 teams (and Trinity-CT couldn't navigate through the NJACMetro region, and that was that.).

The tournament field increased to 44 teams in 1999 to accommodate the introduction of the AQs. But the AQs meant it was much more difficult for a conference to have multiple representatives as there were only three or four Pool C at-large berths initially, growing to five while the field remained at 44 through the 2004 season. During this six-year period, only once did a conference have three teams in the tournament: NJAC in 2001. And with the brackets still mostly, but no longer strictly, regional through 2001, the few times a conference has two teams in, they met in the Sweet 16 round. In 2002, the bracketing, especially of the four eastern regions, really started to become more flexible and the first conference to take advantage of that and have two Elite 8 teams was not one of the conferences you'd probably guess: it was the NEWMAC in 2003 with MIT and Wheaton (Mass.) whose paths would meet in the quarterfinals. The feat wouldn't be repeated until the tournament field expanded again in 2005. 

With the adoption of an access ratio (1 spot for every 6.5 eligible teams) to determine the field size (up to a maximum of 64), 2005 saw the tournament field grow substantially to 57 teams. This meant 15 or so Pool C at-large berths and a much better chance for the top conference to get three or four teams into the tournament, maybe even five in the case of the geographically dispersed UAA. The jump in at-large berths combined with a conscious effort to inter-regionalize the bracketing meant more realistic potential for multiple Elite 8 teams from the same conference. The SUNYAC, with three teams in the tournament, would immediately become the second conference with a pair of Elite 8 teams when Plattsburgh St. and Fredonia St. both reached the 2005 quarterfinals. The UAA would have four and five teams in the 2005 and 2006 tournaments, but never more than one Elite 8 team. The Centennial got four teams into the 2007 tournament, but none even reached the Sweet 16.

From 2008 to 2011, the field grew by one team each year, arriving at 61 in 2011 and with fewer and fewer independents and non-AQ conferences (i.e. fewer Pool B at-large berths), the number of Pool C at-large berths grew to 19. However, even with just two teams in the 2008 tournament, the NESCAC became the third conference in tournament history with two Elite 8 teams when both defending champion Middlebury and Amherst reached the quarterfinals. The next two years (2009, 2010) the NESCAC got four teams into the tournament for the first time in over a decade, and repeated the feat in 2010 when Bowdoin and Middlebury met each other in a quarterfinal match. It should be noted that in both years the bracketing meant the most the NESCAC could have gotten into the Elite 8 was two as they were put on two Sweet 16 collision courses each year, all in the same quadrant in 2010.

From 2010 through last year, the only conference to get four or more teams into the tournament was the UAA: four teams in 2012, 2014 and 2015; five in 2012 and 2016. But only twice in those five years did even one UAA reach the quarterfinals. Due perhaps more to it being a down year across the rest of the New England region than its own strength, the NESCAC had five entrants this year and favorable bracketing that allowed up to four to reach the Elite 8, but of course only one did. The UAA with their four entrants this year, defied tournament history, UAA precedent, and the odds to not only become just the fifth conference with multiple Elite 8 teams, not just the first with more than two Elite 8 teams, but they got all four entrants to the doorstep of the Final Four.

Not only does the UAA, due to the combination of their quality and their geographical dispersal, have the best chance of having four or more tournament participants, but they also stand a better chance that their teams will avoid each other until deeper into the tournament. While the NESCAC may be equal or stronger than the UAA in most years, it's simply more difficult to get as many teams selected by coming out of the same region and more likely they run into each other prior to the quarterfinals.  And the same would apply to any other conference that would get strong enough to get four teams into the tournament. So in many ways, it's not even fair to ask if any other conference has ever had four Elite 8 teams.

That's not to take away from the accomplishment it is for the UAA to have four Elite 8 teams. Sure, to a large extent the UAA is uniquely situated to be able to have a shot at doing this, but the UAA had never previously had two Elite 8 teams. In fact, they never had more than two Sweet 16 teams. So congratulations to the UAA for finally living up to the hype and making history!

very interesting.  +k for the MLA 5-paragraph essay format lol
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 11:14:11 AM
who would you guys say has been the most dominate this tournament ? as well as of the teams remaining who has underperformed?

I would go with North Park as most dominating ( didn't know much about them before the NCAAs) and underperforming is a tie between Tufts* who can't score, and Messiah who hasn't really dominated anyone. I did not think Stevens was that good and was not expecting a 3-2 scoreline.

could even throw amherst in there but they never really dominated teams. they would score 1 then defend
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Jump4Joy on November 19, 2017, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 11:14:11 AM
I would go with North Park as most dominating ( didn't know much about them before the NCAAs) and underperforming is a tie between Amherst who can't score, and Messiah who hasn't really dominated anyone. I did not think Stevens was that good and was not expecting a 3-2 scoreline

Firstplace, did you mean to say "Tufts" who can't score? ;)
Amherst scored four in NCAA play this year, not including PK shootout, while Tufts has scored zilch.
Perhaps you meant to highlight Amherst's lack of shut-outs (to Tufts' two)?
Amherst's young team will have learned much from this season and will be stronger for it in 2018.
Meanwhile, go Jumbos! Go NESCAC!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 19, 2017, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 11:14:11 AM
I would go with North Park as most dominating ( didn't know much about them before the NCAAs) and underperforming is a tie between Amherst who can't score, and Messiah who hasn't really dominated anyone. I did not think Stevens was that good and was not expecting a 3-2 scoreline

Firstplace, did you mean to say "Tufts" who can't score? ;)
Amherst scored four in NCAA play this year, not including PK shootout, while Tufts has scored zilch.
Perhaps you meant to highlight Amherst's lack of shut-outs (to Tufts' two)?
Amherst's young team will have learned much from this season and will be stronger for it in 2018.
Meanwhile, go Jumbos! Go NESCAC!

haha whoops you're right. my mistake!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 12:57:21 PM
I'm no where near as knowledgeable as most of you, but having watched the bulk of yesterday's Hop-Tufts match...  meh. Tufts is a decent side, and I heard from the broadcast that they were missing a speedy flank player... But they were just... ok. I saw people predicting 2-0, 3-0 and I was kind of scratching my head watching that game. They definitely had more chances, deserved the win... But I was underwhelmed by them overall.

From a parochial point of view... One of the things I look for is which team has players willing to take people on. The tighter a player/team is, the more likely the are to drop off a quick pass rather than showing some initiative and taking on a defender off the dribble. Younker was really the only guy that consistently tried this, and he was also consistently shut down by a very good D. You could just tell Tufts was playing with a sliver more confidence, and in the end it showed in the PKs.

Also, I've watched Hop lose in OT at Messiah, and I watched the Dickinson semifinal game... Whoo boy do they suck at PKs. Their goalie is very good and he saved them during regulation, but he was pretty lost (imo) in both PK sessions I watched. But more importantly (I'm a goalie, so this where my head is at), guys missing or taking ****ty kicks is just not acceptable. The goalie has to make an educated guess. If a kicker puts decent wood on the ball and puts it side netting, it's almost always unstoppable. To go 1 for 4 to start is just bonkers. (They did roughly the same thing against Dickinson.)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:24:48 PM
Messiah with a brilliant run down the left flank, perfect cross, header slams into the back of the net. Text book.

1-0 25 mins left in the 2nd.

Rochester roaring back with tons of pressure, just earned a CK.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:26:19 PM
Meanwhile, NP looking very impressive against St. Thomas. Dominating the game and unlucky not to have scored by now. 22 mins 1st half.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
The guy on Messiah's left wing? Unstoppable today. He is absolutely gashing Rochester down that side. Fast as a greyhound.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:34:51 PM
NP with a beautiful back heel flick off of a nice cross from the right side. They'd been bossing this game and "deserved" that one. 15 mins left in 1st.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:39:03 PM
Tufts - Brandeis still locked at zeroes. Better, more aggressive play in the second.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:41:44 PM
Messiah absorbed a bunch of Rochester pressure and just counter-attacked nicely to put that game away. 2-0 with 9 minutes left.

And those boys know how to celebrate. Hilarious.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:46:35 PM
Wow. Tufts should've scored right there. 1v1 with a ton of time. Maybe too much time. GK came off his line and got a piece of the Tufts player, but I think a correct "no call" from the ref there. 8 mins to go.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 02:47:50 PM
Brandeis #24 Handler with a VERY POOR giveaway that Tufts pounces on and a nice thru ball by Tufts Lane to Rojas gets him 1v1 with the GK. Rojas needs to do MUCH BETTER there...He shows he has no left foot as that should have been buried with his left instead he tries to bring it back to his right and stumbles...No foul there..Good No Call...i think this is the same ref that reffed Brandeis v WCONN last weekend..Could be wrong but it looks like him
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:51:02 PM
NP comes  VERY close off a header on a CK at the end of the 1st half.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
0-0 Heading to OT...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 03:03:40 PM
North Park has really come out of their shell since last weekend. they are totally dominating teams i'm calling a North park vs messiah final
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 03:09:17 PM
Wow. Tufts should've scored another right there. Forward with a turn and shoot that sails over the bar from about 12 yards out.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
Halliday MUST FINISH THAT ONE...Should be a Tufts winner..good turn and leaned back and hit it over the bar...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2017, 03:18:27 PM
Second yellow for Rojas. Tufts down to 10 men.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:19:47 PM
Rojas gets frustrated by Hernandez and picks up his 2nd Yellow and is sent off...He would be out of Final 4 if they advance..0-0 105th minute
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
Tufts heading to PK's for 3rd straight game...Different kickers and order last game...Now what? I have a feeling Tufts luck is running out today..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2017, 03:24:33 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
Tufts heading to PK's for 3rd straight game...Different kickers and order last game...Now what? I have a feeling Tufts luck is running out today..

Spoke too soon Mr. Right. BRANDEIS FOR THE WINNNNNNNN!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 03:24:55 PM
Wow. That is a rough way to go. ****ty camera work, but looked like the goalie got to wandering and was punished for it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2017, 03:28:04 PM
Tufts played a great game, and while Brandeis out-possessed them, Tufts had way more quality chances and probably deserved to win. Having said that, it would have been a shame to see a team go through to the final 4 with ZERO goals all tournament. Congrats to Brandeis!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Saint of Old on November 19, 2017, 03:28:38 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2017, 03:24:33 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
Tufts heading to PK's for 3rd straight game...Different kickers and order last game...Now what? I have a feeling Tufts luck is running out today..

Spoke too soon Mr. Right. BRANDEIS FOR THE WINNNNNNNN!

Mr. R spoke just in time.
Tufts luck ran out.

A Champion taken out by a champion.

The way it should be this time a year.

Well done Tufts, you defended the crown well.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
AHHHH.....I went to the take a piss and missed the goal....LOL I just figured it was going to PK's....What happened
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2017, 03:30:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
AHHHH.....I went to the take a piss and missed the goal....LOL I just figured it was going to PK's....What happened

Don't worry, the rest of us missed the goal as well.  Camera dude screwed that one up.  Looked like a bounce to the Brandeis player who chipped the keeper. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:31:02 PM
I watch 328 minutes of Tufts soccer without a goal and miss 2 minutes and a goal....Typical...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 03:31:32 PM
Wow. St. Thomas looked to have pulled one back with a scramble in the box, but the ref waves it off. Game is getting very chippy with two yellows in the last few minutes.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 03:32:23 PM
ROLL DEIS!!!!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 19, 2017, 03:30:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
AHHHH.....I went to the take a piss and missed the goal....LOL I just figured it was going to PK's....What happened

Don't worry, the rest of us missed the goal as well.  Camera dude screwed that one up.  Looked like a bounce to the Brandeis player who chipped the keeper.

Keeper came way off his line and the clearance didn't clear the trailing Brandeis player who put it right back on frame.

But, yeah, the camera guy was doing this annoying Super Zoom all game. Someone needs to tell him to just err on the side of a wider shot.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 19, 2017, 03:33:49 PM
So Meith's overconfidence finally burns him?  Was it a GK mistake? I will have to wait to see it on Brandeis Twitter I suppose
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 03:34:30 PM
Well, considering what you all have said, I guess I don't feel feel bad another my phone dying with 3 left in 2OT and  missing the goal.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on November 19, 2017, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 03:32:23 PM
ROLL DEIS!!!!

I echo your cheer!  Roll Deis!!!!  On to Greensboro!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Buck O. on November 19, 2017, 03:47:26 PM
And we already know this, but still:  That was the first goal scored by an opponent against Tufts all season, since the Amherst goal was an OG.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Brandeis back in the Final 4, and a Final 4 appearance for Gabe Margolis in his first year as head coach. Honestly didn't expect the Judges to beat Tufts, although I did like their chances if it went to PKs with Woodhouse in net. You can imagine my surprise when my phone — which had died with 3 left in 2OT — turned back on and I saw a "1" next to Brandeis on the live stats.

That said, fair play to the Jumbos, who were deserved NESCAC Champions and handed the Judges a loss earlier this season. There is much respect between the two programs and I think, in addition to being an Elite 8 game at Bello (where Tufts hadn't lost all year), the magnitude of this win is signified even more in that this was against the defending national champions, who seemed primed to go all the way again this year. However, as a Tufts parent said last weekend, "you need a lot of luck to get through this tournament." Based on the description of the goal, it would appear that Tufts' ran out, while the Judges got a slice of their own. Sometimes that is just the way it happens.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 03:55:59 PM
St. Thomas throwing everything at NP. More cards for both teams, who are doing a fair amount of chirping at the ref.

NP should've put the game away, got in alone on the keeper but from a bad angle.

Now St. T lose a guy to a red card. 4 minutes left. It appears to be from dissent, as the foul wasn't that bad.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 04:04:16 PM
Chicago - North Park
Messiah - Brandeis

Solid group, there.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
It was a very hard-fought game (with lots of fouls -- 46 in all -- and seven yellow cards and one red card).  Very exciting game with lots of action on both ends. I was impressed with the excellent play by both goalkeepers.

Update: looking at the box score, two more Tommies players got red-carded at the 90:00 mark, so a total of ten cards were handed out in the contest.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 19, 2017, 04:12:00 PM
Congrats to Brandeis! Tremendous under the radar season and it took a team as tough-minded as Tufts to take Tufts out.

Tufts wins in the 109th minute in  the Elite 8 last year off a fatal defending error in 2016 and loses in the 109th minute in the Elite 8 in 2017....both times at Bello.

RE: the success of the UAA. I don't really think there is a correlation as year to year so many random events occur and then a team like Tufts feeds off momentum (like imagine if Tufts had not prevailed against Messiah in 2014), but I think there is a gradual shift happening in terms of popularity away from the NESCAC type smaller liberal arts colleges to the elite mid-size private universities.  I mean a shift well beyond soccer. But I would assume Williams used to get any top prospect choosing D3 they wanted presuming admitability. Now some that might choose Williams, Amherst, Midd, Bowdoin, etc might be choosing a UAA type school, and I include Tufts and Hopkins as classic UAA type institutions.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gotberg on November 19, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
It was a very hard-fought game (with lots of fouls -- 46 in all -- and seven yellow cards and one red card).  Very exciting game with lots of action on both ends. I was impressed with the excellent play by both goalkeepers.

Very thrilled for the NP players and John Born.

The St. Thomas keeper was amazing - could have been more than 1-0, but he did a great job.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 19, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: Gotberg on November 19, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
It was a very hard-fought game (with lots of fouls -- 46 in all -- and seven yellow cards and one red card).  Very exciting game with lots of action on both ends. I was impressed with the excellent play by both goalkeepers.

Very thrilled for the NP players and John Born.

The St. Thomas keeper was amazing - could have been more than 1-0, but he did a great job.

In fairness, St Thomas could have had a couple as well.  The redirect off the post was beautifully played.  The keeper also made a great initial stop on what I think was a direct free kick that ended up going in, but was whistled as an interference call.  St Thomas really came after them the last twenty or so,  but great victory for North Park and the CCIW.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gotberg on November 19, 2017, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 19, 2017, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: Gotberg on November 19, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
It was a very hard-fought game (with lots of fouls -- 46 in all -- and seven yellow cards and one red card).  Very exciting game with lots of action on both ends. I was impressed with the excellent play by both goalkeepers.

Very thrilled for the NP players and John Born.

The St. Thomas keeper was amazing - could have been more than 1-0, but he did a great job.

In fairness, St Thomas could have had a couple as well.  The redirect off the post was beautifully played.  The keeper also made a great initial stop on what I think was a direct free kick that ended up going in, but was whistled as an interference call.  St Thomas really came after them the last twenty or so,  but great victory for North Park and the CCIW.

I was only trying to compliment the keeper, I thought he was amazing.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on November 19, 2017, 04:39:52 PM
So Chicago gets to face the two teams that beat them in the regular season.  Last night in the elite 8 beating Emory and now North Park in the Final Four.  I will say the game earlier this season vs North Park could have gone either way and stats reflect that, but early in the second half CCIW POY Matias Warp hit a great shot from a tough angle for the result.  Will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 19, 2017, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
The guy on Messiah's left wing? Unstoppable today. He is absolutely gashing Rochester down that side. Fast as a greyhound.

His name is Nick West (#11), and he is the fastest current Falcon, though two other Falcons are nearly as fast, Colby Thomas (who starts on the opposite wing) and David Alejos, who doesn't usually start. David has about 5 different gears. Of the teams I have seen in the past two seasons, I cannot name another team that can match the speed Messiah has on the two wings. What they lack is a consistent striker to finish the balls that the two wingers can consistently give them. The Falcon who put his head on West's cross today is an attacking MF who rarely scores, but he was certainly in the right place at the right time today.

Nick is from East Hampton, NY. His brother Brandon was the starting GK on the last national champions from Messiah. Next year, Brandon will be coaching the Eastern University women's team. His teammates Jeremy Payne and Benji Kennel are coaching the men at Eastern.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 19, 2017, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
The guy on Messiah's left wing? Unstoppable today. He is absolutely gashing Rochester down that side. Fast as a greyhound.

His name is Nick West (#11), and he is the fastest current Falcon.

The Dassault Falcon 900 might be a faster Falcon — it can hit Mach 0.87. ;) That said, West is an animal and would give any outside back in the NCAA (even at the D1 level IMHO) a really tough time.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 19, 2017, 05:09:09 PM
I don't know how many here were watching the game in Grantham today, but if you didn't then IMO you missed one of the best displays of possession soccer you will ever see. An absolute clinic, against a really good Rochester team that came to play. The Falcons are in high gear at exactly the right time. If they can stay there for two more games, they can bring home the bacon.

And this despite the fact that the regular large grass field wasn't suitable for playing, and with very high winds to contend with. There were stretches in which Rochester didn't touch the ball for 2-3 minutes at a time, as best I can tell, even though they were pressing the Falcons all over their half of the field and sometimes in their offensive half too. Game ball goes to Shay Quintin, who played AA level defense at left back while many times putting on his attacking MF disguise, doing the shake and bake on multiple defenders and taking the ball himself right through the right side of Rochester's formation. I was talking after the game with some from the large contingent of Rochester fans--bully to them for making a long trip on a dreary day. What most impressed them was Messiah's back line, starting with Shay, but they also mentioned Cooper Robbins (who had a terrific game as the stopper) and Josh Bender, who just dominated the right side of the defense and MF today.

Another game ball to Nick West, who set up the GW with a brilliant cross and was serious trouble all afternoon on the left wing. Honorable mention to Colby Thomas, who had a rocket saved by the keeper, got himself open several times by going through people, and set up the second goal with a great cross.

I have no idea how Brandeis plays, not having seen them in the past few seasons. Someone described them as ponderous and slow. If so, the semi-final will be a big contrast in styles. Anyone who takes down Tufts, even a relatively fangless Tufts that relies so much on shutting you down, deserves great respect. If both teams bring their A games, I expect a barn burner in Greensboro.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 05:27:46 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
Brandeis back in the Final 4, and a Final 4 appearance for Gabe Margolis in his first year as head coach. Honestly didn't expect the Judges to beat Tufts, although I did like their chances if it went to PKs with Woodhouse in net. You can imagine my surprise when my phone — which had died with 3 left in 2OT — turned back on and I saw a "1" next to Brandeis on the live stats.

That said, fair play to the Jumbos, who were deserved NESCAC Champions and handed the Judges a loss earlier this season. There is much respect between the two programs and I think, in addition to being an Elite 8 game at Bello (where Tufts hadn't lost all year), the magnitude of this win is signified even more in that this was against the defending national champions, who seemed primed to go all the way again this year. However, as a Tufts parent said last weekend, "you need a lot of luck to get through this tournament." Based on the description of the goal, it would appear that Tufts' ran out, while the Judges got a slice of their own. Sometimes that is just the way it happens.

bloooots, I agree with ALMOST everything you said here until I read, tufts was primed to go all the way again. they were very good but they didn't score at all in the tournament. and honestly the fact they got that far without scoring is even crazier. great year for the Jumbos and we all know they will be back-Liam Nesson voice
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 05:27:46 PM
bloooots, I agree with ALMOST everything you said here until I read, tufts was primed to go all the way again. they were very good but they didn't score at all in the tournament. and honestly the fact they got that far without scoring is even crazier. great year for the Jumbos and we all know they will be back-Liam Nesson voice
this far is more of a

Understandable, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. For me, their defensive record provided a very good foundation, and if  they weren't going to outplay you they would capitalize on a set piece. They had a number of ways of winning games and had a squad with the know-how of not just getting it done in gritty fashion (remember, all of their results from the 2nd Round on last year were one-goal wins, and two of those came in 2OT, including the final) and very much had the ability to win ugly but had done so not just once but twice in the last three years. Combine all those factors, and it's hard to say who would have beaten them.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 05:40:51 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 05:27:46 PM
bloooots, I agree with ALMOST everything you said here until I read, tufts was primed to go all the way again. they were very good but they didn't score at all in the tournament. and honestly the fact they got that far without scoring is even crazier. great year for the Jumbos and we all know they will be back-Liam Nesson voice
this far is more of a

Understandable, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. For me, their defensive record provided a very good foundation, and if  they weren't going to outplay you they would capitalize on a set piece. They had a number of ways of winning games and had a squad with the know-how of not just getting it done in gritty fashion (remember, all of their results from the 2nd Round on last year were one-goal wins, and two of those came in 2OT, including the final) and very much had the ability to win ugly but had done so not just once but twice in the last three years. Combine all those factors, and it's hard to say who would have beaten them.

yeah absolutely. they are a team that knows how to win many ways. set piece, run of play, counter, throw ins. there is no doubt in my mind they are one of the hardest teams to play and beat.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 06:19:11 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 19, 2017, 05:40:51 PM
yeah absolutely. they are a team that knows how to win many ways. set piece, run of play, counter, throw ins. there is no doubt in my mind they are one of the hardest teams to play and beat.

Exactly, I think you summed up the points my rambling better than I could have. :)

In other news, very classy press conference by Shapiro, per usual, on the Tufts Athletics YouTube channel. He is the kind of guy you want leading a successful program -- doesn't get too high, doesn't get too low, doesn't gloat when they win, and does respect the opposition regardless of the outcome. A class act. All the respect in the world to him.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 19, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
Falconer,

Brandon West is already at Eastern... Had them a game earlier this year and they won in OT.   They play the Messiah 4-3-3.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 19, 2017, 06:34:32 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 19, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
Falconer,

Brandon West is already at Eastern... Had them a game earlier this year and they won in OT.   They play the Messiah 4-3-3.

Correction appreciated. I knew he had some role there this year, but hadn't realized he was in charge yet.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PM
I was a total nerd and watched good chunks of Messiah, Brandeis and North Park wins. Some observations:

Messiah is ridiculously good in possession. And it was fun watching the West kid. That seems like the best team I've seen (extremely small sample size.)

North Park is very explosive, but they had a lot of instances where they looked like they were going to concede a goal. They also allowed the crowd and the ref to distract them. I mean, St. T got caught up, too... Crazy atmosphere. But they gotta keep it together in Greensboro.

I don't see Brandeis moving on. Good for them for sticking with the game today, as they were under the gun for most of that game. I just don't see them handling what Messiah is going to throw at them.

North Park - Messiah... Messiah is your 2017 champs.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 19, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Love seeing Brandeis get dissed and Messiah already being crowned.  Only one Final Four team this year was in the Final Four last year. Brandeis.  Human nature is such that we forget that what possibly was  a really bad call might have cost Brandeis advancing past Calvin last year. Finished 2nd in the UAA that had 4 teams in the Elite 8. Beat RUN.  Beat undefeated Drew. Got by Tufts who would have rather played some exotic hyped team from somewhere else than backyard foe Brandeis that has basically alternated wins and losses with the Jumbos over the past 4-5 years. Brandeis is battle tested. Use any other adjectives you want about them, but I would guess they will show up.  And Chicago and North Park are fully capable of beating Messiah as well.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 19, 2017, 10:25:18 PM
Congratulations to North Park upon its first-ever Final Four berth. After a lot of years of being one of those regional powers that never managed to make it out of the first weekend of the tourney and really hadn't earned any national respect, NPU has finally broken through. Given that the Vikings have already beaten Chicago once this season, and on the home pitch of the Maroons, no less, I know that the U of C already has plenty of respect for NPU -- and the Vikings, in turn, have confidence that they can get it done against that formidable power from the other side of town.

The first 65 minutes or so from NPU was textbook soccer, as the Vikings had a rather ridiculous 16-1 shots advantage at one point early in the second half, and UST didn't even put one on frame until the 61st minute. But after that it was hang-on-by-your-fingernails time, as that very good Tommies side threw everything but the kitchen sink at NPU, drawing a plethora of close-in free kicks that really put the pressure on the Vikings. But the Tommies got a little overeager on their best chances, once having a would-be goal disallowed by interfering with NPU keeper Mattias Stulen while he was on the ground and on another occasion shoving him backwards into the goal with the ball in his hands. And while both sides were getting mouthy with a ref that had a very liberal whistle today (as Mr. B pointed out, 46 fouls were called -- and he wasn't calling them in a consistent manner), in the end it was the Tommies that blew their cool. Tommies star forward Tyler Oliver got called for an ordinary tripping foul with about five minutes left and came up off the turf screaming abusive language, first at the NPU player with whom he had collided and then at the ref, at whom he loudly directed a ripe epithet that included "f___ing" used as an adjective to personally describe the ref. That'll get you dead red every time, especially with a ref who has already been harangued the entire game and has shown with his bookings that he will tolerate no excessive backtalk. Once Oliver was shown the gate, it was basically over.

Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2017, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: mr_b on November 19, 2017, 04:02:50 PM
North Park holds on for a 1-0 victory to advanced to the final four for the first time in program history.

Congrats to North Park! Well deserved.
It was a very hard-fought game (with lots of fouls -- 46 in all -- and seven yellow cards and one red card).  Very exciting game with lots of action on both ends. I was impressed with the excellent play by both goalkeepers.

Update: looking at the box score, two more Tommies players got red-carded at the 90:00 mark, so a total of ten cards were handed out in the contest.

Yes, there was some outstanding goalkeeping today at both ends. North Park fans are beginning to get spoiled by sophomore Mattias Stulen, but I was really impressed by UST junior Aidan Hogan. That kid was standing on his head out there. He single-handedly kept the Tommies in the match.

The other two reds were handed out after the contest was over as a formality. The two UST players who were dealt them, All-American Shae Bottum and Pierce Erickson, are both seniors and thus will never play another minute of college soccer, anyway -- which I guess gave them license to tell the referee in the handshake line that he had ruined St. Thomas's season and that his mother knits doilies for ISIS.

I don't want to harp on UST's foibles, though. Those guys are talented and they play very hard, and I give the Tommies much respect. I can't fault them for their competitiveness, although I'm certainly glad that NPU did a (comparatively) better job of holding its emotions in check, even though the Vikings did their fair share of whining as well.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PM
North Park is very explosive, but they had a lot of instances where they looked like they were going to concede a goal.

They didn't, however, which should be the salient takeaway from this match.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PMThey also allowed the crowd and the ref to distract them.

Huh? It was NPU's crowd. The Vikings weren't distracted by the partisan crowd, they fed off of it. They certainly did let the ref get to them, though.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 07:29:43 PMI mean, St. T got caught up, too... Crazy atmosphere. But they gotta keep it together in Greensboro.

Agreed. Even though this is NPU's first trip to the bright lights, the Vikings have to keep it wired tight and act like they've been there before.

This is a great moment for John Born and his coaching staff to savor their accomplishment. He has brought this program, which he rebuilt from the ground up, to a whole 'nother level. But they can't linger on the milestone. There's still a lot of work to be done over the next two weeks. The Vikings aren't going to Greensboro as some sort of victory lap, or just to collect participation ribbons.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: paclassic89 on November 19, 2017, 11:45:35 PM
If I'm reading the all-time tourney results correctly, Messiah has never lost a national title game.  10 out of 10. :o If they get past Brandeis, which I think they will , then they have to be the overwhelming favorite in the championship game in my opinion.  That's a ridiculous stat.
*someone please correct me if I'm worng.  just thought that was an interesting stat*
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 07:33:55 AM
With respect to Brandeis' goal yesterday, based on the recaps it doesn't sound like Mieth was overconfident or got caught off his line as much as there was a ball played into space (top of the 18 -- very much a grey area in terms of stay home or come out) and he just didn't get enough on the clearance. Again, sometimes the bounces go in your favor, and sometimes they go against you.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:24:56 AM
Good call yesterday, Mr. Sager. And tip of the cap to the guys with the call on the Tufts - Brandeis game. If those were Tufts' guys, extra-kudos, because they called it with a very neutral and professional style. If anything, could've used a bit more energy.

==-=-=-=

It was difficult to tell through the audio if it was just a couple of loud Tommy fans, or if they had a good travel contingency, because there was a LOT of complaining after every call. So, obviously, the Vikings had a loud crowd, but it sure seemed like the visitors had a vocal group, as well. Whatever was going on, both teams started to boil over down the stretch. It was entertaining to watch, and I actually thought the ref did a decent job keeping a lid on the game.

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 19, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Love seeing Brandeis get dissed and Messiah already being crowned.  Only one Final Four team this year was in the Final Four last year. Brandeis.  Human nature is such that we forget that what possibly was  a really bad call might have cost Brandeis advancing past Calvin last year. Finished 2nd in the UAA that had 4 teams in the Elite 8. Beat RUN.  Beat undefeated Drew. Got by Tufts who would have rather played some exotic hyped team from somewhere else than backyard foe Brandeis that has basically alternated wins and losses with the Jumbos over the past 4-5 years. Brandeis is battle tested. Use any other adjectives you want about them, but I would guess they will show up.  And Chicago and North Park are fully capable of beating Messiah as well.

I'm not some Messiah mark, just stating my objective opinion. As I've stated, my take should be taken with a huge grain of salt, based on extremely limited sample size.

But going off the games I watched this weekend... Brandeis sucks!! Sorry, just kidding. Brandeis is a very sturdy squad and like I said, they did a great job of gutting out yesterday's win. The put a lot of pressure on Tufts and it eventually turned into a game winner. I just think they've got a very tough assignment with Messiah.

==-=-=

On the Brandeis goal, it's impossible for anyone who was watching the feed to know exactly what happened. I'll take blooter's word for it. Mieth was solid all weekend, and as a fellow goalie, I hate to see a somewhat fluky goal end someone's season.

(Like G'town, who lost yesterday on an OG VERY late in that contest.) 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 09:57:20 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:32:54 AM
But going off the games I watched this weekend... Brandeis sucks!! Sorry, just kidding. Brandeis is a very sturdy squad and like I said, they did a great job of gutting out yesterday's win. The put a lot of pressure on Tufts and it eventually turned into a game winner. I just think they've got a very tough assignment with Messiah.

==-=-=

On the Brandeis goal, it's impossible for anyone who was watching the feed to know exactly what happened. I'll take blooter's word for it. Mieth was solid all weekend, and as a fellow goalie, I hate to see a somewhat fluky goal end someone's season.

(Like G'town, who lost yesterday on an OG VERY late in that contest.)

I don't think any of us would disagree with you that it will be a very tough out. I don't know the Falcons as well as teams in New England, but from what I have seen of the two sides, Messiah and Brandeis play similar, possession-based styles, and both have a solid amount of physicality and athleticism -- you need both of those things to beat a team like Tufts. And, I might venture to guess that Messiah has a bit more speed down the flanks, although Brandeis' defensive unit is very solid and hasn't given up a goal in the tournament. (Not saying they won't, but a solid defense is the foundation you need to compete at the national level.) That said, I am not sure that Brandeis is as dynamic offensively as Messiah is, although we shall see!

As for the other point, I'm just going based on the Brandeis Athletics (http://brandeisjudges.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/20171119qdygr7) recap. (Also, there is an interview with Coach Margolis on the same page -- very classy, much like Shapiro's interview yesterday.)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 19, 2017, 11:45:35 PM
If I'm reading the all-time tourney results correctly, Messiah has never lost a national title game.  10 out of 10. :o If they get past Brandeis, which I think they will , then they have to be the overwhelming favorite in the championship game in my opinion.  That's a ridiculous stat.
*someone please correct me if I'm worng.  just thought that was an interesting stat*

you are correct. they won in 2013 for their 10th out of 10
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

However, Rochester's best chance is part of the other highlight video. The play developed so fast, and my seat wasn't as good as it normally is. The stands on the lacrosse field don't go very high, and the fence in front of me was lined with spectators, and the play happened at the far end of the field. So, the look on the video is a lot better than the one I had, and shows that Connor Bell did indeed make a great save on a ball that looked to me at the time not that much of a threat, or I would have mentioned it yesterday. It wasn't actually clear to me that he even got a hand on the ball, or that the deflection mattered.

If you watch both clips, you will see why I'm a such a big fan of Colby Thomas, who usually plays right wing but sometimes plays attacking MF. His skill set is on full view in the two highlights involving him: speed, passing, moves, and shooting. The only thing you won't see is his rocket shot. He had one of those blocked yesterday on a great play by the keeper, but it's not in the highlight. The camera had a terrific view of the second goal vs Rochester, when he outraced multiple defenders down the sideline, beat the one defender still in front of him by going to his left, then declined to shoot the great shot he had just created for himself, passed the ball across the goal in front of the keeper and the gathering crowd to Nick West for a great finish. That's a play he doesn't make as a freshman, when he just didn't go to the left, but he's fixed that one glaring weakness in his game with hard work these past few seasons. No less important, he's been healthy all year, and thus for the first time his numbers really show how dangerous he is: 9 goals and 11 assists, with a team-leading 38 SOG and 7 GW. His full emergence in this, his senior year, is a major reason why the Falcons are back in the Final Four after a four-year absence.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 12:48:50 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

However, Rochester's best chance is part of the other highlight video. The play developed so fast, and my seat wasn't as good as it normally is. The stands on the lacrosse field don't go very high, and the fence in front of me was lined with spectators, and the play happened at the far end of the field. So, the look on the video is a lot better than the one I had, and shows that Connor Bell did indeed make a great save on a ball that looked to me at the time not that much of a threat, or I would have mentioned it yesterday. It wasn't actually clear to me that he even got a hand on the ball, or that the deflection mattered.

If you watch both clips, you will see why I'm a such a big fan of Colby Thomas, who usually plays right wing but sometimes plays attacking MF. His skill set is on full view in the two highlights involving him: speed, passing, moves, and shooting. The only thing you won't see is his rocket shot. He had one of those blocked yesterday on a great play by the keeper, but it's not in the highlight. The camera had a terrific view of the second goal vs Rochester, when he outraced multiple defenders down the sideline, beat the one defender still in front of him by going to his left, then declined to shoot the great shot he had just created for himself, passed the ball across the goal in front of the keeper and the gathering crowd to Nick West for a great finish. That's a play he doesn't make as a freshman, when he just didn't go to the left, but he's fixed that one glaring weakness in his game with hard work these past few seasons. No less important, he's been healthy all year, and thus for the first time his numbers really show how dangerous he is: 9 goals and 11 assists, with a team-leading 38 SOG and 7 GW. His full emergence in this, his senior year, is a major reason why the Falcons are back in the Final Four after a four-year absence.

Yes perhaps lost in the 3-2 scoreline in Saturday game with Stevens are the 2 absolute scorcher shots from Stevens that came out of nowhere.  Messiah mostly dominated play and had game in control 2 times with a 2 goal lead only to have Stevens pull back to within 1 on 2 occasions with unreal shots.  First was an upper 90 from 20 or so yards from the left side after a foul and a short pass off the free kick to an unmarked #21 who then ripped a shot that keeper could not get to.   Second goal went through a sea of players between the shooter and the goal straight out about 20-25 yards about 2 feet off the ground..just a rocket.   First goal could have been prevented if someone marked the player receiving the short pass on the free kick..that probably should have been a forward or mid marking him probably since all the defenders are in  the box defending the free kick.

Anyway..all that matters is Messiah moves on to final 4.  Well deserved for this group of seniors who avoid being the first Messiah 4 year players in a long time not participating in at least one final four.  Very happy for all of them.  I'm sure they want that National Championship as well but getting back to the Final 4 is a very nice accomplishment in itself. 

I won't comment on whether they are favorites or not.  I also don't speculate on how they compare to Messiah teams of the past.   The 2014 Messiah team was considered a great team and they got knocked of by Tufts in Elite 8..so anything can happen.  All 4 teams this year are more than capable of beating each other.  The team that gets the breaks, plays with composure, and makes the least mistakes probably wins.   Of course some player could make a spectacular play and win it for their team in a 1-0 game.  I just hope none of the games go to PK's...that's a terrible way to decide a game IMO. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 19, 2017, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 19, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
The guy on Messiah's left wing? Unstoppable today. He is absolutely gashing Rochester down that side. Fast as a greyhound.

His name is Nick West (#11), and he is the fastest current Falcon, though two other Falcons are nearly as fast, Colby Thomas (who starts on the opposite wing) and David Alejos, who doesn't usually start. David has about 5 different gears. Of the teams I have seen in the past two seasons, I cannot name another team that can match the speed Messiah has on the two wings. What they lack is a consistent striker to finish the balls that the two wingers can consistently give them. The Falcon who put his head on West's cross today is an attacking MF who rarely scores, but he was certainly in the right place at the right time today.

Nick is from East Hampton, NY. His brother Brandon was the starting GK on the last national champions from Messiah. Next year, Brandon will be coaching the Eastern University women's team. His teammates Jeremy Payne and Benji Kennel are coaching the men at Eastern.

Actually..I'm told that Dakota Rosenberg at CB may be the fastest Falcon.  Harder to see it in his position but you do see him cover a lot of ground sometimes to overtake a seemingly open forward.  Nick is definitely at the top.  Soccer is interesting..going from 0 to full speed quickly can sometime be more valuable than 100 yard dash speed or even 40 yard dash speed.  AS far as I know they do not clock the 40 for the team..would be interesting to see those times if they did.  Football player speed is always tied to their 40 yard time.  I believe in the 1 mile preseason run Nick is the reigning champ..I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 01:25:42 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

I hate to be a skeptic, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player, so I doubt he ran a 4:15. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth. Of course, this is my own anecdotal experience, and I should add that Maine isn't a running hotbed (although we did have some great talent in my year), but just want to be sure to exemplify that it's not like every guy and his brother can run a sub-5.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even below that. And who knows? Maybe he did run a 4:15. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume that the Messiah track coach would have snapped him up for the winter and spring seasons as well (albeit I'll admit my ignorance on Messiah's policy on two-sport athletes).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2017, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

I hate to say I doubt it, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even 4:40. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume he'd be running track at Messiah as well as playing soccer.

Yes, a 4:15 mile would make him a better track athlete than soccer player.  A true untrained 4:15 runner would be somewhat of a freak of nature with the potential to be world class if properly trained.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2017, 01:27:33 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:24:56 AM
Good call yesterday, Mr. Sager.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:24:56 AMIt was difficult to tell through the audio if it was just a couple of loud Tommy fans, or if they had a good travel contingency, because there was a LOT of complaining after every call. So, obviously, the Vikings had a loud crowd, but it sure seemed like the visitors had a vocal group, as well.

The Tommies had a pretty good traveling group of fans, about eighty to a hundred in all, but they were the sort of families-and-girlfriends contingent that typically follows a team on the road. NPU had somewhere between 800 and 900 fans there (the posted attendance of 1,411 seems very high), and a big chunk of the NPU fan section consisted of students (including their brigade of rowdies, Foster's Finest, which did a great job of keeping up the noise level for the entire 90 minutes). I think that the reason why the UST fans sounded so prominent on the broadcast is that the most vocal handful of them were clustered in the top row just below the press box and down toward the rail at midfield, which meant that they were the closest in proximity to the two cameras (and, thus, the two camera mics). That's the problem with broadcasts -- you can't always get a good gauge on crowd composition based upon sound, because that's dependent upon the placement of the field mics. The people who were standing on the far sidelines along the benches noted what a tremendous amount of noise the NPU faithful were generating, and they said that whatever they heard from the UST fans was sparse and intermittent.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 09:24:56 AMWhatever was going on, both teams started to boil over down the stretch. It was entertaining to watch, and I actually thought the ref did a decent job keeping a lid on the game.

I think that he did what he had to do to manage the game as far as bookings were concerned, aside from booking the wrong guy in one instance (NPU's Peder Olsen got a yellow in the 82nd minute that his teammate, Shatil Khoury, should've gotten instead). I didn't think he called a consistent game, foul-wise, although he was very even-handed in his inconsistency. I'm just happy that the craziness after the match didn't result in somebody in a purple kit taking a swing at him. You can see just a glimpse of it if you watch the game replay on NPU's Facebook page before the producer cut to the other camera, but when Shae Bottum verbally unloaded on the ref in the handshake line he looked like he was about to imitate the guy in the movie Scanners whose head exploded.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2017, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.


I hate to say I doubt it, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even 4:40. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume he'd be running track at Messiah as well as playing soccer.

Yes, a 4:15 mile would make him a better track athlete than soccer player.  A true untrained 4:15 runner would be somewhat of a freak of nature with the potential to be world class if properly trained.

Messiah wants all players to run a sub 5 minute mile. My son  is around 445 for the pre season run after some training. Nick beats him by a lot. From what I hear the kid can run at a fast pace the whole mile and never slows up. So I think 415 is accurate within a free seconds. Maybe 420.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 20, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
All about technique and training.  Never had blazing speed, but I could run a 445-450 mile.  That was basically my all out pace...

Also did XC and ran about 620-630 pace at best for 5 milers.

Is West faster than Jack Thompson from a few seasons ago?



Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 03:01:09 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:48:29 PM
Messiah wants all players to run a sub 5 minute mile. My son  is around 445 for the pre season run after some training. Nick beats him by a lot. From what I hear the kid can run at a fast pace the whole mile and never slows up. So I think 415 is accurate within a free seconds. Maybe 420.

Just for kicks (no pun intended), I found a couple of 5K results with his name on them. 17:45 from his senior year of high school and 18:03 from 2016. That comes out to roughly 5:45 and 5:50 per mile, respectively, so he definitely has some endurance, but in my experience a guy running 4:20 would most likely be around 16 (or below) for 5K, so I can't say I'm totally sold.

Who knows, though? Maybe he is that fast! Apparently his sister was an All-American runner at Susquehanna and ran a 4:54 mile herself (as well as a 2:12 800 and 59 400), so it certainly runs in the family (again, no pun intended). If nothing else, from what I have seen of him, he appears to be quicker than pretty much all the players on the field in a given game and definitely has superior endurance. And my skepticism isn't to say it isn't possible, but rather that (having been a competitive runner and known how difficult it is to run sub-5) I've heard countless people over the years say "yeah, that guy ran like a 4:30 mile [in high school soccer tryouts]" when in fact the kid actually ran 5:20. Hey, both are evidence of great athleticism, but they are levels apart.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2017, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.


I hate to say I doubt it, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even 4:40. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume he'd be running track at Messiah as well as playing soccer.

Yes, a 4:15 mile would make him a better track athlete than soccer player.  A true untrained 4:15 runner would be somewhat of a freak of nature with the potential to be world class if properly trained.

Messiah wants all players to run a sub 5 minute mile. My son  is around 445 for the pre season run after some training. Nick beats him by a lot. From what I hear the kid can run at a fast pace the whole mile and never slows up. So I think 415 is accurate within a free seconds. Maybe 420.

If so, that's a spectacular time for a soccer player at any level, including professional. I am sceptical. Your son is certainly in a better place to know what Nick can do in the mile, Rudy, but I am still sceptical. Referring to the official trial when players report for the season, the best I am aware of in Falcon history is slightly under 4:40 on the part of J D Binger in the last decade. I know he does have HS track experience, and he is fast in the 5K, so I could certainly believe under 4:30, which would put him in an elite category for college soccer players. I don't believe 4:15, unless I see hard evidence of it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 20, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
All about technique and training.  Never had blazing speed, but I could run a 445-450 mile.  That was basically my all out pace...

Also did XC and ran about 620-630 pace at best for 5 milers.

Is West faster than Jack Thompson from a few seasons ago?

haha I was the complete opposite. I could run short distance faster than almost anyone I knew but long distance and I did not get along
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

not many outsiders even realize how impressive that is... anything under 5 is crazy
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 20, 2017, 04:42:20 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

I know we're in the midst of a mile-time discussion here (which I have no right to participate in, seeing as I'm likely slower than any DIII player in history), but I didn't want to let this go unmentioned. The people responsible for creating highlight packages (if we're talking about the same clips) wear so many different hats at the Division III level that they have way better things to do than include opponent plays in their own highlights. I think it was discussed elsewhere on this board, but it looks like Messiah had 8 teams in action Saturday, including a four-team basketball tournament at home. That means tons of work for a small staff of 3 or 4 people. And that's not to even mention that these highlight packages are mostly designed to promote and highlight Messiah; them including Stevens' or any other opponent's good plays does little to further that.
The folks at Stevens almost certainly have access to the very same game film - if they want a highlight out there of a spectacular goal, there's no reason they can't post a highlight themselves.

FYI Falconer, I'm not trying to just be contrarian or picky here. Would it be great to have a replay of that goal? Absolutely! I just think "they should be ashamed of themselves" is a little harsh.  ::)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:04:11 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 20, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
All about technique and training.  Never had blazing speed, but I could run a 445-450 mile.  That was basically my all out pace...

Also did XC and ran about 620-630 pace at best for 5 milers.

Is West faster than Jack Thompson from a few seasons ago?

haha I was the complete opposite. I could run short distance faster than almost anyone I knew but long distance and I did not get along

I can relate. No way I would make the under 5 minute mile requirement. Under 10 sounds about right for me. My son is pretty fast.. and has endurance..he has to train the mile a good month before training season to get under 5.  He can't get close to Nick in the mile..I was surprised myself.  I'm sure he could run track at Messiah if he wanted to.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on November 20, 2017, 04:42:20 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

I know we're in the midst of a mile-time discussion here (which I have no right to participate in, seeing as I'm likely slower than any DIII player in history), but I didn't want to let this go unmentioned. The people responsible for creating highlight packages (if we're talking about the same clips) wear so many different hats at the Division III level that they have way better things to do than include opponent plays in their own highlights. I think it was discussed elsewhere on this board, but it looks like Messiah had 8 teams in action Saturday, including a four-team basketball tournament at home. That means tons of work for a small staff of 3 or 4 people. And that's not to even mention that these highlight packages are mostly designed to promote and highlight Messiah; them including Stevens' or any other opponent's good plays does little to further that.
The folks at Stevens almost certainly have access to the very same game film - if they want a highlight out there of a spectacular goal, there's no reason they can't post a highlight themselves.

FYI Falconer, I'm not trying to just be contrarian or picky here. Would it be great to have a replay of that goal? Absolutely! I just think "they should be ashamed of themselves" is a little harsh.  ::)

Your rebuke is justified, Mr Holmes, your argument well made. I withdraw that part of my post with apologies to the folks who prepare the clips. Thanks for defending them. +K.

(I recall seeing some opponent goals in those clips from time to time, few as impressive as that goal by Stevens, but I'm sure you're right about having to keep it short and sweet under the circumstances.)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

not many outsiders even realize how impressive that is... anything under 5 is crazy


It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.   
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

That is believable, and very impressive! Might be the fastest miler in D3 soccer (of course, superlative mile times are not what soccer players care about, but still).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 06:31:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

That is believable, and very impressive! Might be the fastest miler in D3 soccer (of course, superlative mile times are not what soccer players care about, but still).

I second that sentiment. Perhaps there's a serious miler who also plays soccer well enough to make a D3 team somewhere, but it's probably a safe assumption that he's got the fastest mile time of any really good D3 player--and perhaps also of any D2 or D1 player for that matter. It would be fun to find out.

I appreciate knowing that J D Binger's record has been eclipsed. By several seconds, too. Thanks for looking into it, Rudy. +k for you.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 20, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: Sherlock Holmes on November 20, 2017, 04:42:20 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 11:26:14 AM
The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

I know we're in the midst of a mile-time discussion here (which I have no right to participate in, seeing as I'm likely slower than any DIII player in history), but I didn't want to let this go unmentioned. The people responsible for creating highlight packages (if we're talking about the same clips) wear so many different hats at the Division III level that they have way better things to do than include opponent plays in their own highlights. I think it was discussed elsewhere on this board, but it looks like Messiah had 8 teams in action Saturday, including a four-team basketball tournament at home. That means tons of work for a small staff of 3 or 4 people. And that's not to even mention that these highlight packages are mostly designed to promote and highlight Messiah; them including Stevens' or any other opponent's good plays does little to further that.
The folks at Stevens almost certainly have access to the very same game film - if they want a highlight out there of a spectacular goal, there's no reason they can't post a highlight themselves.

FYI Falconer, I'm not trying to just be contrarian or picky here. Would it be great to have a replay of that goal? Absolutely! I just think "they should be ashamed of themselves" is a little harsh.  ::)

Your rebuke is justified, Mr Holmes, your argument well made. I withdraw that part of my post with apologies to the folks who prepare the clips. Thanks for defending them. +K.

(I recall seeing some opponent goals in those clips from time to time, few as impressive as that goal by Stevens, but I'm sure you're right about having to keep it short and sweet under the circumstances.)

If I could give karma I'd give it right back. I know you meant no disrespect to those guys! In fact, I missed the goal myself, so I'd certainly love to see it pop up somewhere. It sounds like it was quite a strike!

I agree with you, I think I've seen some places do opponent goals in highlight packages too. I can't remember if I've seen Messiah do it. Definitely a few other schools. I'd guess it varies place by place and depending how busy the particular day was.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 06:45:35 PM
I'm sure Nick could make the track team, and probably bring his time down well into the 4:20s. He ran that 4:33 under conditions far from ideal. Probably not wearing track shoes and definitely not competing against real milers. Messiah has had several men hit 4:20 or under, to the best of my knowledge, but not too many. This certainly is consistent with Nick playing all 90 minutes at top speed in many games this year. Just like John Havlicek back in the day, he can go full speed at the end of the game as well as from the opening whistle. Most D3 players just can't do that.

For perspective on current distance running at Messiah, just one MC man ran in the Nationals this past Saturday: http://gomessiah.com/news/2017/11/18/mens-cross-country-messiahs-schott-improves-finish-at-ncaa-championships.aspx

It's interesting that they give Mr Shott's mile splits, for what would have been either a 5M or a slightly shorter 8K course (I didn't do the easy research to see which it is). Mr Schott ran 9:30-something for 2 miles in HS, unless perhaps high 9:20s once or twice. I didn't research that one either, but it should be easy. The specific course used in the Nationals this year is slightly shorter than the roughly 5.2M course my team used, and the times are a great deal faster. The all-time record on my team's course was just under 24:50, which works out to maybe 24:10 for 5M. But, that one was set by the greatest distance runner in U Penn history (according to their own site), the same David Merrick who set the all-time course record at Van Cortlandt in the Bronx and who ran 2M in 8:43 indoors in HS, which is still one of the five fastest times ever for a HS runner and just 2 seconds behind the immortal Steve Prefontaine. So, the two courses just don't compare at all.

Well, enough talk (from me, at least) about distance running. With a tip of my hat to Nick West.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2017, 07:42:18 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2017, 06:11:39 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

That is believable, and very impressive! Might be the fastest miler in D3 soccer (of course, superlative mile times are not what soccer players care about, but still).

Yes, I think I can believe a 4:33.  Difference from a 4:15 is probably at least 125 yards to put it in context.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 08:30:31 PM
I just want full credit for reigniting this whole "guy I couldn't name because I don't know what I'm talking about, but he's really fast" conversation.

:D
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 20, 2017, 08:35:32 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 20, 2017, 08:30:31 PM
I just want full credit for reigniting this whole "guy I couldn't name because I don't know what I'm talking about, but he's really fast" conversation.

:D

Yes this long discussion is all your fault... you get full credit.. I can even give +k's now so I'm going to give you a deserved +k
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: truenorth on November 21, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'm an aging runner and Nordic skier and I completely agree with this assessment.  It's highly improbable any soccer player, no matter how athletically talented, would come into preseason and run a 4:15 mile.  That's more akin to the raw talent that a Kenyan or Ethiopian 16 year old might possess who puts on running shoes for the first time.

As you say, there's a huge difference between 4:45 and 4:30 for a runner who is fit and specifically trained, and an even huger difference between 4:30 and 4:15.  A 4:15 coming out of high school puts you onto the radar of many top D1 running programs, particularly if you come from a state with underdeveloped talent (Maine vs. California as an example).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: bestfancle on November 21, 2017, 08:53:52 AM
Quote from: truenorth on November 21, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'm an aging runner and Nordic skier and I completely agree with this assessment.  It's highly improbable any soccer player, no matter how athletically talented, would come into preseason and run a 4:15 mile.  That's more akin to the raw talent that a Kenyan or Ethiopian 16 year old might possess who puts on running shoes for the first time.

As you say, there's a huge difference between 4:45 and 4:30 for a runner who is fit and specifically trained, and an even huger difference between 4:30 and 4:15.  A 4:15 coming out of high school puts you onto the radar of many top D1 running programs, particularly if you come from a state with underdeveloped talent (Maine vs. California as an example).

To add to this (myself being a 5:15 runner, on a good day), I had a teammate who ran at UCLA before transferring to my school because he really just wanted to play soccer and be closer to home. He said he ran a 4:13 his freshman year at UCLA, but when he transferred and decided to play soccer he said there was no way he could keep that pace. Due to training and the obvious changes between division 1 and division 3 athletics. He ran like a 4:35 and blew away everyone else on the team, but still wasn't at his true track form.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 21, 2017, 09:11:47 AM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 21, 2017, 08:53:52 AM
Quote from: truenorth on November 21, 2017, 08:30:00 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'm an aging runner and Nordic skier and I completely agree with this assessment.  It's highly improbable any soccer player, no matter how athletically talented, would come into preseason and run a 4:15 mile.  That's more akin to the raw talent that a Kenyan or Ethiopian 16 year old might possess who puts on running shoes for the first time.

As you say, there's a huge difference between 4:45 and 4:30 for a runner who is fit and specifically trained, and an even huger difference between 4:30 and 4:15.  A 4:15 coming out of high school puts you onto the radar of many top D1 running programs, particularly if you come from a state with underdeveloped talent (Maine vs. California as an example).

To add to this (myself being a 5:15 runner, on a good day), I had a teammate who ran at UCLA before transferring to my school because he really just wanted to play soccer and be closer to home. He said he ran a 4:13 his freshman year at UCLA, but when he transferred and decided to play soccer he said there was no way he could keep that pace. Due to training and the obvious changes between division 1 and division 3 athletics. He ran like a 4:35 and blew away everyone else on the team, but still wasn't at his true track form.

As I clarified already..he ran a 4:33 this preseason. That's the accurate time. Not sure what his times have been for earlier seasons.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 21, 2017, 03:31:25 PM
The last time the final 4 was held at UNC Greensboro NC was in 2008:  Messiah 1 vs Stevens Institute 1 (Messiah won in PK's).  Oddly enough Messiah just played Stevens Institute in the Sweet 16.  Messiah has won 3 championships in Greensboro..2008, 2005, and 2004...every year it was hosted by UNC in Greensboro since they started winning titles in 2000.   So either the streak will continue or it will be broken!  Looks to be a nice soccer only stadium..bermuda grass, good drainage system, etc.   Best of luck to all the teams and fans here.

Modified per FW correction..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 21, 2017, 03:40:17 PM
The Final Fours were NOT hosted by UNC-Greensboro in any of those prior years. Those three Final Fours were played at Macpherson Stadium in Bryan Park to the northeast of Greensboro.  I think the hosts in 2004 and 2005 were Greensboro College and the Greensboro Sports Commission.  It may have been the same in 2008.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ejay on November 21, 2017, 04:09:46 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2017, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

not many outsiders even realize how impressive that is... anything under 5 is crazy


It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

There's a HS sophomore in my town who played in the DA two years ago but left because he wanted to play HS soccer instead.  He also runs HS winter/indoor track.  His 1 mile PR is 4:50 which I imagine will come down to ~4:30 by Sr. year, and if he switched to XC I'd guess he could get it down even further. But he wants to play soccer in college and has the talent to easily play at a highly competitive D3. I don't think he's an anomaly and I imagine there are several college players who are running 4:30-4:45 if you asked around.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 21, 2017, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 21, 2017, 03:40:17 PM
The Final Fours were NOT hosted by UNC-Greensboro in any of those prior years. Those three Final Fours were played at Macpherson Stadium in Bryan Park to the northeast of Greensboro.  I think the hosts in 2004 and 2005 were Greensboro College and the Greensboro Sports Commission.  It may have been the same in 2008.

Ok but it was in Greensboro NC. Close enough. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 22, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Post game interview with Messiah after the UR game..Nick West, coach, and goalie Connor Bell.   I noticed some teams posted links to post game interviews but not all are easy to find.   Someone mentioned a Tufts post game interview for example.  Not sure how consistently  these are done in the sweet 16 and beyond games??  Figure someone might be interested in this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8HAFv-axSM
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 12:34:01 PM
I think Chicago's incredibly tough road to the Final 4 will have big benefits next weekend. Their dispatching of Calvin and Emory was impressive and surely they will have a sour taste in their mouth from losing to this North Park side earlier in the year. They have the best striker in D3, a creative playmaker in midfield in Koh and some skill on the flanks with Adeosun. My only question would have to be their backline and in net. Emory did not have many dangerous chances that I remember except for the first 15 minutes of the 2nd Half when they came out flying but died out just as fast. I remember one 30 yard hit that the Chicago GK easily should have caught but he bobbled it and gave them a free corner. I think Chicago's CB's are very good I just question those wingbacks who Emory did not have a problem beating and the GK who IMO is very questionable from the games I have seen. He makes a couple fantastic saves a game but makes just as many questionable decisions each game. That all being said they have enough going forward to cause any team problems and can play physical and/or technical all game. I think they dispatch of North Park rather easily 2-0 and do not give them many sniffs on net
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 22, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Post game interview with Messiah after the UR game..Nick West, coach, and goalie Connor Bell.   I noticed some teams posted links to post game interviews but not all are easy to find.   Someone mentioned a Tufts post game interview for example.  Not sure how consistently  these are done in the sweet 16 and beyond games??  Figure someone might be interested in this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8HAFv-axSM

Thanks for sharing this. The Tufts Athletics YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM761nSd1oIv6rHw2bX4QAg/videos) is usually pretty good about doing them, although it seems a bit hit-or-miss in terms of who they can round up (for example, they had Tufts and Drew on after the Sweet 16, but no Johns Hopkins or Brandeis. Elite 8, Shapiro was on, but no Brandeis.) Brandeis, for its part, has a video of Margolis (http://www.brandeisjudges.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/20171119qdygr7) following the Tufts game, albeit only on the athletics website. I remember the Judges did quasi-official pressers after they held the 1st and 2nd Rounds in 2012 and 2013, but I don't think they've done so since.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:03:23 PM
Yea these are spotty...I think it is up to the Host and SID's to do these..Not sure though..Final 4 is required I believe as they go back to 2009 in San Antonio
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 01:11:37 PM
Homer alert: I think Margolis was very classy in his postgame interview. His response to a question about making it to the Final 4 in his first year as head coach: that whether it was as head coach or assistant coach really didn't matter, that the guys have worked hard, that Coven is still involved, and that he's just happy for Brandeis soccer to be going back. Of course, he has been tactically running that program for a number of years, and I am sure there are many other coaches who would say the same thing, but I was impressed with the way he answered the question -- his lack of ego is admirable.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:14:34 PM
it will be interesting to see how Brandeis plays Messiah. I am guessing they will sit with 6 very compact in a 4-2-3-1 and attack with 4. I do not remember the field in Greensboro but I actually think it is a grass field. I could be wrong. I assume they will let Messiah possess until they cross midfield where they will be on them like glue. They should have some looks on the counter but will need to be faster on the counter than they were against Tufts. When they got the ball back from Tufts they were content to just swing the ball around the back and let Tufts set up rather comfortably.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:14:34 PM
it will be interesting to see how Brandeis plays Messiah. I am guessing they will sit with 6 very compact in a 4-2-3-1 and attack with 4. I do not remember the field in Greensboro but I actually think it is a grass field. I could be wrong. I assume they will let Messiah possess until they cross midfield where they will be on them like glue. They should have some looks on the counter but will need to be faster on the counter than they were against Tufts. When they got the ball back from Tufts they were content to just swing the ball around the back and let Tufts set up rather comfortably.

Agreed. Ironically, for a team that likes to play the ball on the ground, it was surprising that the goal came from a long ball forward by Berg. Just goes to show that you have to have multiple ways of attacking.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 22, 2017, 02:44:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:14:34 PM
I do not remember the field in Greensboro but I actually think it is a grass field. I could be wrong.

There's nothing to remember.  The Division III Final Four has never been played in UNC-Greensboro Soccer Stadium.  The previous three Final Fours in Greensboro, NC were held at MacPherson Stadium in Bryan Park to the northeast of the city.   

However, both MacPherson Stadium and UNC-Greensboro Soccer Stadium have natural grass.

From the UNC-Greensboro website (link (http://www.uncgspartans.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209248494&DB_OEM_ID=32200&DB_OEM_ID=32200&_ga=2.171219945.893723871.1511309982-1052787029.1511309982))
QuoteThe stadium still rivals any collegiate soccer facility in the nation. Among its several outstanding features:

• Permanent seating for 3,540 spectators in the grandstand along the east sideline, including 1,112 chairback seats in three sections at midfield and another 2,428 bleacher seats (with backs) in four other sections.
• Lighting, at 150-candle power, to accomodate live TV coverage.
• A soccer scoreboard with a new video message center (installed prior to the 2009 season), press box and brick wall completely surrounding the facility.
• A Bermuda style natural-grass playing field equipped with a state-of-the-art drainage system capable of removing up to six inches of water within a 24-hour period
• A Wall of Honor recognizing outstanding UNCG soccer players and coaches on the stadium concourse.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 02:50:50 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 22, 2017, 02:44:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:14:34 PM
I do not remember the field in Greensboro but I actually think it is a grass field. I could be wrong.

There's nothing to remember.  The Division III Final Four has never been played in UNC-Greensboro Soccer Stadium.  The previous three Final Fours in Greensboro, NC were held at MacPherson Stadium in Bryan Park to the northeast of the city.   

However, both MacPherson Stadium and UNC-Greensboro Soccer Stadium have natural grass.

From the UNC-Greensboro website (link (http://www.uncgspartans.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209248494&DB_OEM_ID=32200&DB_OEM_ID=32200&_ga=2.171219945.893723871.1511309982-1052787029.1511309982))
QuoteThe stadium still rivals any collegiate soccer facility in the nation. Among its several outstanding features:

• Permanent seating for 3,540 spectators in the grandstand along the east sideline, including 1,112 chairback seats in three sections at midfield and another 2,428 bleacher seats (with backs) in four other sections.
• Lighting, at 150-candle power, to accomodate live TV coverage.
• A soccer scoreboard with a new video message center (installed prior to the 2009 season), press box and brick wall completely surrounding the facility.
• A Bermuda style natural-grass playing field equipped with a state-of-the-art drainage system capable of removing up to six inches of water within a 24-hour period
• A Wall of Honor recognizing outstanding UNCG soccer players and coaches on the stadium concourse.


Ahh..I just assumed it was at the same field as before. Bermuda Grass is a good sign as I remember the other location had grass as well. The website dows not list the field dimensions or I did not notice it...Any idea? From the picture it looks maybe 120x75 if I had to guess..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: OldNed on November 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:03:23 PM
Yea these are spotty...I think it is up to the Host and SID's to do these..Not sure though..Final 4 is required I believe as they go back to 2009 in San Antonio

Here's the post game interview for St. Joe's after the Tufts game, and thanks to the Tufts SID for making this available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJu5JUDX9Q

I can't remember who pointed out how classy Shapiro and the Tufts players were in the post game interview, and I have to agree with that.  For those who missed it, here is the Tufts post game interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_74L4j-aeM
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2017, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: OldNed on November 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:03:23 PM
Yea these are spotty...I think it is up to the Host and SID's to do these..Not sure though..Final 4 is required I believe as they go back to 2009 in San Antonio

Here's the post game interview for St. Joe's after the Tufts game, and thanks to the Tufts SID for making this available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJu5JUDX9Q

I can't remember who pointed out how classy Shapiro and the Tufts players were in the post game interview, and I have to agree with that.  For those who missed it, here is the Tufts post game interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_74L4j-aeM

Shapiro is class all the way.  No hardass gamesmanship.  Several coaches of well known programs were, let's say, less than classy, to him before games, including in the NCAA tourney over the past few years...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2017, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: OldNed on November 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:03:23 PM
Yea these are spotty...I think it is up to the Host and SID's to do these..Not sure though..Final 4 is required I believe as they go back to 2009 in San Antonio

Here's the post game interview for St. Joe's after the Tufts game, and thanks to the Tufts SID for making this available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJu5JUDX9Q

I can't remember who pointed out how classy Shapiro and the Tufts players were in the post game interview, and I have to agree with that.  For those who missed it, here is the Tufts post game interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_74L4j-aeM

Shapiro is class all the way.  No hardass gamesmanship.  Several coaches of well known programs were, let's say, less than classy, to him before games, including in the NCAA tourney over the past few years...


Can we expand on this? What and Who do you mean...1 example w/o naming the program or coach will satisfy
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2017, 10:58:07 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2017, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: OldNed on November 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:03:23 PM
Yea these are spotty...I think it is up to the Host and SID's to do these..Not sure though..Final 4 is required I believe as they go back to 2009 in San Antonio

Here's the post game interview for St. Joe's after the Tufts game, and thanks to the Tufts SID for making this available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJu5JUDX9Q

I can't remember who pointed out how classy Shapiro and the Tufts players were in the post game interview, and I have to agree with that.  For those who missed it, here is the Tufts post game interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_74L4j-aeM

Shapiro is class all the way.  No hardass gamesmanship.  Several coaches of well known programs were, let's say, less than classy, to him before games, including in the NCAA tourney over the past few years...


Can we expand on this? What and Who do you mean...1 example w/o naming the program or coach will satisfy

Would rather not.....sorry Right.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 11:01:32 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2017, 10:58:07 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2017, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: OldNed on November 22, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 01:03:23 PM
Yea these are spotty...I think it is up to the Host and SID's to do these..Not sure though..Final 4 is required I believe as they go back to 2009 in San Antonio

Here's the post game interview for St. Joe's after the Tufts game, and thanks to the Tufts SID for making this available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJu5JUDX9Q

I can't remember who pointed out how classy Shapiro and the Tufts players were in the post game interview, and I have to agree with that.  For those who missed it, here is the Tufts post game interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_74L4j-aeM

Shapiro is class all the way.  No hardass gamesmanship.  Several coaches of well known programs were, let's say, less than classy, to him before games, including in the NCAA tourney over the past few years...


Can we expand on this? What and Who do you mean...1 example w/o naming the program or coach will satisfy

Would rather not.....sorry Right.


Cmon Flounder a little sack once in a while is much appreciated..I can offer a karma point if that helps
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 11:07:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 11:01:32 PM
Cmon Flounder a little sack once in a while is much appreciated..I can offer a karma point if that helps

LOL...I like the attempted negotiation tactic.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on November 23, 2017, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2017, 11:07:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2017, 11:01:32 PM
Cmon Flounder a little sack once in a while is much appreciated..I can offer a karma point if that helps

LOL...I like the attempted negotiation tactic.

Lol!😂
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 23, 2017, 09:23:40 AM
Maybe Nutmeg can come out of hibernation and tell us  ;)

Tough to be so provocative and then not share.

As for Tufts, I have to tip my cap to the video series.  Very creative, really well done, and I'm sure Shapiro doesn't mind the potential boost for recruiting.  Also very enjoyable to see the real human and college student authenticity that comes through of the players.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 23, 2017, 10:45:08 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 23, 2017, 09:23:40 AM
Maybe Nutmeg can come out of hibernation and tell us  ;)

Maybe the karma bargain isn't that compelling, since that's what Nutmeg is around for. ;)

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 23, 2017, 09:23:40 AM
As for Tufts, I have to tip my cap to the video series.  Very creative, really well done, and I'm sure Shapiro doesn't mind the potential boost for recruiting.  Also very enjoyable to see the real human and college student authenticity that comes through of the players.

Fully agreed -- very well done. Fun to see behind the scenes on game day, and I really enjoyed the look at different players (and the interview with said player's fellow teammates, which are usually tongue-in-cheek).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: letsGOswans! on November 23, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
I wonder when or if Shapiro will move on from Tufts. I reckon he could do a great job at some d1 programs.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 23, 2017, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: letsGOswans! on November 23, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
I wonder when or if Shapiro will move on from Tufts. I reckon he could do a great job at some d1 programs.

From what I heard, he thought D1 was somewhat of a grind, and has enjoyed D3 more (which makes sense particularly given the success he has had). He was an assistant at Georgetown and may decide to try his chops at head coach in D1, and I have no doubt he would be successful, but I could just as easily see him staying at Tufts for a long time. He has a unique appreciation for the NESCAC as a conference.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 23, 2017, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 23, 2017, 02:13:26 PM
Quote from: letsGOswans! on November 23, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
I wonder when or if Shapiro will move on from Tufts. I reckon he could do a great job at some d1 programs.

From what I heard, he thought D1 was somewhat of a grind, and has enjoyed D3 more (which makes sense particularly given the success he has had). He was an assistant at Georgetown and may decide to try his chops at head coach in D1, and I have no doubt he would be successful, but I could just as easily see him staying at Tufts for a long time. He has a unique appreciation for the NESCAC as a conference.

Yes, as I commented in the other thread.  Assuming Tufts treats him right he just might stay.  Of course I don't know what these jobs pay, and how one affords to live and support a family in an area like Boston or any other expensive area.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 01:36:35 PM
I said this after 2014 if Shapiro is going to go anywhere he MUST do it before he hits 50 years old..He has all the right experience being a successful D3 Coach and Player and D1 assistant at a very successful program. I doubt he is money hungry or he would have been gone earlier but Tufts used to be not known in Nescac to pay their coaches as well as other Nescac's. That maybe has changed with all the success Tufts athletic programs have had the past 5 years. IDK. D1 programs rarely hire someone in their mid 50's to get their program going. One exception is O'Leary at UMASS but he was VERY LUCKY to get that gig IMO and better plan on staying their until retirement because that will be the last gig he gets. Shapiro would be a fantastic fit at an Ivy where he would probably get paid about $75,000 plus another $40,000 with camps and clinics all summer. Some people do not want to deal with that grind though and as an Ivy league coach there is only so far you will go in the NCAA's. I was impressed with Columbia when I saw them a week ago and Dartmouth is always solid but when you start playing ACC schools and all their scholarship players you are cooked. I think he will stay for now but he might get itchy for another challenge as most people do.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 01:56:17 PM
I wonder how Brandeis will prepare for the Final 4? Correct me if I am wrong D4 but a Coach would probably give the guys the Monday after the Elite 8 off and maybe practice Tuesday. So it might look like this

Monday(after elite 8)     Off
Tuesday                        Practice
Wed / Thurs / Fri           Off
Sat and Sun                  Practice
Mon                              Practice
Tues                             Practice Morning / Fly to NC
Wed / Thurs                  Should be allowed to Practice on Gamefield if not Practice elsewhere / plus a host of other NCAA commitments.

To me you want to get to the Final 4 site on that Tuesday night instead of flying out early Wednesday morning. Why? Because you do not want to get the guys up at 4am on Wednesday to get to the site and everyone will be tired and it might take a day to recover. Just does not make sense to me but with the site being in North Carolina this year it might be easier on East Coast teams to get flights rather than to San Antonio or KC. Also. the amount of commitments the teams have when they get to the Final 4 is not small. It is really hard to get a fully focused team training session when at the site IMO.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 03:20:25 PM
We can go over the losses Brandeis will have this year but not until their season is done. Bloots would probably do a better job than I as I really have only seen Brandeis on the stream maybe 7 to 8 games. Just taking a quick glance though at their roster and if they are going to win it all THIS WOULD BE THE YEAR to do it. Margolis will bring in a solid Frosh class next season no question but Brandeis has a ton of Seniors this year that will be hard to replace. Just a list:

Woodhouse, Flahive, Berg, Hernandez, Vinson, Ocel, Miskin and Lynch...That is about 7-8 starters not to mention regular bench guys like Espiga and Ponte. That is an absolute load to lose...Not to mention all they have lost the past 2 years..Next year could be a bit of a rebuilding process...They did lose regulars like DePietto and Miskin to injury very early in the year. No idea what the injuries were but DePietto is a player I like and Miskin would have 1 more year of eligibility if he wants to use it. Always an interesting situation for a player.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 26, 2017, 07:12:09 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1

The best part here is that you are serious in a very humorless way and are sure that partisanship has not a lick to do with your predictable predictions.

Here's mine.

Brandeis would beat Chicago in the final.

Chicago would beat Messiah in the final.

Messiah would beat North Park in the final.

North Park would beat Brandeis in the final.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 26, 2017, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1

i'm going to take a shot at this

Semi-Finals

Messiah 3 Brandeis 1

North Park 2 Chicago 1

Final:

Messiah 2 NP 1 (1OT)

Messiah is just too good in the final four that it is almost unfair. I think this will be one of the better final fours in the last 3-4 years
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 26, 2017, 10:14:28 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 26, 2017, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1

i'm going to take a shot at this

Semi-Finals

Messiah 3 Brandeis 1

North Park 2 Chicago 1

Final:

Messiah 2 chicago 1

Messiah is just too good in the final four that it is almost unfair. I think this will be one of the better final fours in the last 3-4 years

How does Chicago get to play Messiah in the final if North Park beats them in the semifinal?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 27, 2017, 08:27:57 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 26, 2017, 10:14:28 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 26, 2017, 07:38:19 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over chicago 2-1

i'm going to take a shot at this

Semi-Finals

Messiah 3 Brandeis 1

North Park 2 Chicago 1

Final:

Messiah 2 NP 1

Messiah is just too good in the final four that it is almost unfair. I think this will be one of the better final fours in the last 3-4 years


How does Chicago get to play Messiah in the final if North Park beats them in the semifinal?

whoops made a mistake
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 28, 2017, 01:50:29 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1



I would be shocked if there is going to be 8 goals in 3 in games this weekend. I will say 5 goals would be more like it unless the North Park and Chicago game gets stretched. Nice work Bloots on your Final 4 preview...+k for your time and effort...I am waiting on the prediction game until I get a feel of what is going on in North Carolina behind the scenes lol..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on November 28, 2017, 09:58:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 28, 2017, 01:50:29 PM
I would be shocked if there is going to be 8 goals in 3 in games this weekend. I will say 5 goals would be more like it unless the North Park and Chicago game gets stretched. Nice work Bloots on your Final 4 preview...+k for your time and effort...I am waiting on the prediction game until I get a feel of what is going on in North Carolina behind the scenes lol..

Much appreciated, as always, Mr.Right...just glad someone reads it! ;) I can see this weekend be low-scoring...don't think we're going to have a 4-2 final like 2014!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 29, 2017, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 01:56:17 PM
I wonder how Brandeis will prepare for the Final 4? Correct me if I am wrong D4 but a Coach would probably give the guys the Monday after the Elite 8 off and maybe practice Tuesday. So it might look like this

Monday(after elite 8)     Off
Tuesday                        Practice
Wed / Thurs / Fri           Off
Sat and Sun                  Practice
Mon                              Practice
Tues                             Practice Morning / Fly to NC
Wed / Thurs                  Should be allowed to Practice on Gamefield if not Practice elsewhere / plus a host of other NCAA commitments.

To me you want to get to the Final 4 site on that Tuesday night instead of flying out early Wednesday morning. Why? Because you do not want to get the guys up at 4am on Wednesday to get to the site and everyone will be tired and it might take a day to recover. Just does not make sense to me but with the site being in North Carolina this year it might be easier on East Coast teams to get flights rather than to San Antonio or KC. Also. the amount of commitments the teams have when they get to the Final 4 is not small. It is really hard to get a fully focused team training session when at the site IMO.

I was always curious as to the itinerary during the week leading up to the final four, especially with that week starting on the tail end of Thanksgiving. When are players required to return from Thanksgiving break? Do teams stay in the same hotels? Is there a tight training schedule each team follows on the same training pitch? What off-the-field commitments are there?

Maybe with someone with more experience could share? Firstplaceloser? Mr.Right?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2017, 11:57:13 AM
The Vikings left NPU early this morning for Greensboro. NPU has at least one fan bus going to the Final Four, and a lot of individual parties going in groups via automobile.

I've enjoyed walking past Holmgren Athletic Complex the past week and seeing the Vikings on the field practicing. At NPU, we're not used to the outdoors facilities being utilized in late November. But we would certainly enjoy it if it became habitual.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 29, 2017, 02:08:44 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 29, 2017, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 01:56:17 PM
I wonder how Brandeis will prepare for the Final 4? Correct me if I am wrong D4 but a Coach would probably give the guys the Monday after the Elite 8 off and maybe practice Tuesday. So it might look like this

Monday(after elite 8)     Off
Tuesday                        Practice
Wed / Thurs / Fri           Off
Sat and Sun                  Practice
Mon                              Practice
Tues                             Practice Morning / Fly to NC
Wed / Thurs                  Should be allowed to Practice on Gamefield if not Practice elsewhere / plus a host of other NCAA commitments.

To me you want to get to the Final 4 site on that Tuesday night instead of flying out early Wednesday morning. Why? Because you do not want to get the guys up at 4am on Wednesday to get to the site and everyone will be tired and it might take a day to recover. Just does not make sense to me but with the site being in North Carolina this year it might be easier on East Coast teams to get flights rather than to San Antonio or KC. Also. the amount of commitments the teams have when they get to the Final 4 is not small. It is really hard to get a fully focused team training session when at the site IMO.

I was always curious as to the itinerary during the week leading up to the final four, especially with that week starting on the tail end of Thanksgiving. When are players required to return from Thanksgiving break? Do teams stay in the same hotels? Is there a tight training schedule each team follows on the same training pitch? What off-the-field commitments are there?

Maybe with someone with more experience could share? Firstplaceloser? Mr.Right?


Players are not required to return from Thanksgiving on any given day it is up to the coaching staff but a smart coach would not force them back until Saturday. Give them the day after Thanksgiving to rest / travel etc and then get 3 serious training sessions in on Sat / Sun / Mon on campus. I would go light on Tuesday and then travel on Wednesday with a runaround when you get to the site. In San Antonio all teams stayed in the same Hotel not sure about KC or NC but I would imagine the NCAA would do the same because they probably get discounted rates. Teams are allowed I believe an hour on the game field on Thursday to get a good feel of what they will be dealing with. In San Antonio, teams could practice longer on Trinity's field which every team that I was aware took advantage of. The off field commitments are not that bad but there is always some sort of community involvement at a local school or what not talking to the kids and knocking the ball around or whatever. The night before there is a monster banquet for both the Men and Women with each team having one player give a 5 minute speech and then eating and all that. Its a great experience and a nice end to all 4 of the teams successful seasons.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
All the teams are staying in the same hotel... really nice Sheraton actually. Wish I could convince myself to spend the money to stay there. LOL
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on November 29, 2017, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
All the teams are staying in the same hotel... really nice Sheraton actually. Wish I could convince myself to spend the money to stay there. LOL

How about some inside info on what is going on down there...Weather report? Field? Anything would be helpful TBH
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 29, 2017, 02:25:17 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 29, 2017, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 01:56:17 PM
I wonder how Brandeis will prepare for the Final 4? Correct me if I am wrong D4 but a Coach would probably give the guys the Monday after the Elite 8 off and maybe practice Tuesday. So it might look like this

Monday(after elite 8)     Off
Tuesday                        Practice
Wed / Thurs / Fri           Off
Sat and Sun                  Practice
Mon                              Practice
Tues                             Practice Morning / Fly to NC
Wed / Thurs                  Should be allowed to Practice on Gamefield if not Practice elsewhere / plus a host of other NCAA commitments.

To me you want to get to the Final 4 site on that Tuesday night instead of flying out early Wednesday morning. Why? Because you do not want to get the guys up at 4am on Wednesday to get to the site and everyone will be tired and it might take a day to recover. Just does not make sense to me but with the site being in North Carolina this year it might be easier on East Coast teams to get flights rather than to San Antonio or KC. Also. the amount of commitments the teams have when they get to the Final 4 is not small. It is really hard to get a fully focused team training session when at the site IMO.

I was always curious as to the itinerary during the week leading up to the final four, especially with that week starting on the tail end of Thanksgiving. When are players required to return from Thanksgiving break? Do teams stay in the same hotels? Is there a tight training schedule each team follows on the same training pitch? What off-the-field commitments are there?

Maybe with someone with more experience could share? Firstplaceloser? Mr.Right?

so back in 2013 our schedule was like this. ill start the monday of thanksgiving week.
Monday and tuesday we were given off.
Wednesday small light practice then go home for break.
Off for thanksgiving
Thursday friday saturday practice
sunday was light
monday and tuesday practice
wednesday morning we left for San antonio at 6am( would not let us leave tuesday cause of money)Trinity let us practice at their facilitity after the bus ride to the Teams Hotel. all 4 teams stayed at the same hotel all on different floors.

Thursday was team breakfast, then we had a scheduled time to go check out the stadium and game field. also had a set practice time at fields outside of the stadium. there was a strict 1 hour limit and we all practiced at the same time. we also had to a community service event where all teams helped.

Thursday night was the Banquet/Dinner which was at the hotel.(I was impressed with the food and ambiance.) we had small amounts of free time to hang out and relax but definitely not long enough.

Friday we had team breakfast then had a few things to do with NCAA and had time to relax before the games at night.

if you lose your team is supposed to leave immediately.

Saturday was wake up,take as many ice baths as you possibly could until you left for National championship game. then you play win or lose teams go back to
hotel and leave following morning

I probably missed a few things but the schedule for the most part in San Antonio was very busy and definitely effects you as a player. but it is by far the most amazing trip I ever had and would do anything for another chance to do it again
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Wisco21 on November 29, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Appreciate the insight lads. And wow firstplaceloser, busy is an understatement! Love that you say you'd do anything to do it again, sounds like an experience that really contains all of what we dream about as youngsters!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Saint of Old on November 29, 2017, 08:02:34 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 29, 2017, 02:25:17 PM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 29, 2017, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 24, 2017, 01:56:17 PM
I wonder how Brandeis will prepare for the Final 4? Correct me if I am wrong D4 but a Coach would probably give the guys the Monday after the Elite 8 off and maybe practice Tuesday. So it might look like this

Monday(after elite 8)     Off
Tuesday                        Practice
Wed / Thurs / Fri           Off
Sat and Sun                  Practice
Mon                              Practice
Tues                             Practice Morning / Fly to NC
Wed / Thurs                  Should be allowed to Practice on Gamefield if not Practice elsewhere / plus a host of other NCAA commitments.

To me you want to get to the Final 4 site on that Tuesday night instead of flying out early Wednesday morning. Why? Because you do not want to get the guys up at 4am on Wednesday to get to the site and everyone will be tired and it might take a day to recover. Just does not make sense to me but with the site being in North Carolina this year it might be easier on East Coast teams to get flights rather than to San Antonio or KC. Also. the amount of commitments the teams have when they get to the Final 4 is not small. It is really hard to get a fully focused team training session when at the site IMO.

I was always curious as to the itinerary during the week leading up to the final four, especially with that week starting on the tail end of Thanksgiving. When are players required to return from Thanksgiving break? Do teams stay in the same hotels? Is there a tight training schedule each team follows on the same training pitch? What off-the-field commitments are there?

Maybe with someone with more experience could share? Firstplaceloser? Mr.Right?

so back in 2013 our schedule was like this. ill start the monday of thanksgiving week.
Monday and tuesday we were given off.
Wednesday small light practice then go home for break.
Off for thanksgiving
Thursday friday saturday practice
sunday was light
monday and tuesday practice
wednesday morning we left for San antonio at 6am( would not let us leave tuesday cause of money)Trinity let us practice at their facilitity after the bus ride to the Teams Hotel. all 4 teams stayed at the same hotel all on different floors.

Thursday was team breakfast, then we had a scheduled time to go check out the stadium and game field. also had a set practice time at fields outside of the stadium. there was a strict 1 hour limit and we all practiced at the same time. we also had to a community service event where all teams helped.

Thursday night was the Banquet/Dinner which was at the hotel.(I was impressed with the food and ambiance.) we had small amounts of free time to hang out and relax but definitely not long enough.

Friday we had team breakfast then had a few things to do with NCAA and had time to relax before the games at night.

if you lose your team is supposed to leave immediately.

Saturday was wake up,take as many ice baths as you possibly could until you left for National championship game. then you play win or lose teams go back to
hotel and leave following morning

I probably missed a few things but the schedule for the most part in San Antonio was very busy and definitely effects you as a player. but it is by far the most amazing trip I ever had and would do anything for another chance to do it again

Back in the day, we played the games thanks giving weekend.
There was the Thanksgiving dinner where all 4 teams sat and ate together (a real bonding experience)
They served Turkey and Mash potatoes.
Captains from each team gave 5 minute speeches as well.
The whole dinner was a class set up from start to finish.

Back then Wheaton hosted, and as always the program did everything with class.


Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on November 29, 2017, 11:20:20 PM
yeah during our group dinner each captain had a 5min speech. RUC was the only team that never made it there and you could tell bc we had 40 kids with us and everyone else had like 20. our school let us bring the whole team for the experience.

I will say this, the NCAA really makes you feel honored to be there and everything was incredible. there was a floor where they have a room loaded with snacks just for us players lol and about your comment about doing anything to go back.... yes, literally ANYTHING to go back again. you grow up as a child with that as a very attainable goal. The amount of hours of lifting running playing studying andnits all to play in a Final Four as a student athlete. 1% of student athletes will have the chance at a National Championship. if you really think about it that's amazing. and I feel bad for the teams who were almost there that didn't quite make it. from the first day of preseason we sat down as a group and said to ourselves "we have something special do not waste it" a final four run consists of a few components, which are Hard work, Dedication, Family, Love/respect for the game, and finally the most Important LUCK. you need it and when it happens you know... but enough rambling on

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 30, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
Anyone on here going to the Final Four this year?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on November 30, 2017, 08:46:47 AM
I have a family obligation on Saturday and I cannot financially afford the trip to Greensboro, but I was able to get the Google play store installed yesterday on my Amazon Fire tablet in order to get the NCAA Sports app.  I will test out the DII video streams today to see if I can pick up the live video easily.  I will follow the games on live stats in the worst case scenario.

Note-- the app is not needed if you are watching the games on a laptop.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on November 30, 2017, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 30, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
Anyone on here going to the Final Four this year?

I am
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 30, 2017, 09:52:29 AM
Messiah has to be the favorite if there even is one at this point right? All 4 teams could take it!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ryan Harmanis on November 30, 2017, 06:30:01 PM
Honestly, having seen them all play I'm not sure there's a true favorite this year. Messiah is very good, obviously, but they have not been as dominant as past Falcons teams against their toughest competition. Without taking anything away from them (again, they're awesome) I also think Messiah had the easiest road to the Final Four.

This year, in particular, the Final Four is loaded. Had Tufts made it you'd arguably have had the top four seeds. Instead, you have 3/4 plus a Brandeis team that has the only Final Four experience in the field. No real Cinderella, and no real favorite in my view.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on November 30, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on November 30, 2017, 06:30:01 PM
Honestly, having seen them all play I'm not sure there's a true favorite this year. Messiah is very good, obviously, but they have not been as dominant as past Falcons teams against their toughest competition. Without taking anything away from them (again, they're awesome) I also think Messiah had the easiest road to the Final Four.

This year, in particular, the Final Four is loaded. Had Tufts made it you'd arguably have had the top four seeds. Instead, you have 3/4 plus a Brandeis team that has the only Final Four experience in the field. No real Cinderella, and no real favorite in my view.

Agree 100%.  If anything North Park should perhaps be the favorite and maybe most likely to steamroll through 2 games (if anyone is going to steamroll), and that said I bet deep down many of us think of North Park as the Cinderalla (if forced to choose one).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: joking777 on November 30, 2017, 08:24:03 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 30, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
Anyone on here going to the Final Four this year?

Packing the car as we speak. I've really enjoyed lurking on the boards this year and especially reading the history that is shared. My son is a freshman on the Messiah team this year and it has been a great experience.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 28, 2017, 01:50:29 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1



I would be shocked if there is going to be 8 goals in 3 in games this weekend. I will say 5 goals would be more like it unless the North Park and Chicago game gets stretched. Nice work Bloots on your Final 4 preview...+k for your time and effort...I am waiting on the prediction game until I get a feel of what is going on in North Carolina behind the scenes lol..



I will also add that Brandeis has 5 straight shutouts and have not given up a goal in over a month when they lost 1-0 to Chicago in late October. I expect a low scoring match with Brandeis absorbing some pressure and countering when given the opportunity. I think this will be a 1-0 game either way.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 28, 2017, 01:50:29 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 26, 2017, 01:08:54 AM
With still about a week to go here are my thoughts so far on predictions:

Semi-Finals
Messiah over Brandeis  2-0
Chicago over North Park  2-1

Final:
Messiah over Chicago  2-1



I would be shocked if there is going to be 8 goals in 3 in games this weekend. I will say 5 goals would be more like it unless the North Park and Chicago game gets stretched. Nice work Bloots on your Final 4 preview...+k for your time and effort...I am waiting on the prediction game until I get a feel of what is going on in North Carolina behind the scenes lol..



I will also add that Brandeis has 5 straight shutouts and have not given up a goal in over a month when they lost 1-0 to Chicago in late October. I expect a low scoring match with Brandeis absorbing some pressure and countering when given the opportunity. I think this will be a 1-0 game either way.

Greg Irwin was the Brandeis keeper when the Judges last gave up a goal as Ben Woodhouse was still recovering from an injury.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on December 01, 2017, 12:13:34 PM
MAF's Final 4 Predictions
Messiah 2-1 over Brandeis
North Park 3-2 over Chicago in OT

Messiah over North Park 1-0
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 01:08:54 PM
Messiah v Brandeis             0-0   Brandeis PK's....
Chicago v north Park           1-0   Chicago

Chicago v Brandeis              1-0   Chicago


Honestly these are all toss-ups but I do not see all these goals that people are predicting...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 01:23:00 PM
I think we are just hoping for a high scoring eventful weekend. it's pretty much impossible to know, what ever teams shows up that day ready will win. there's a chance it could go either way. we will see tonight. 

TCNJ women's lose a close one with a goal from
chicago in the first 5 min.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 01:42:50 PM
How does the field look? Ill check out the Williams women's game to get a feel for the field...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:01:15 PM
Field looks to be in good shape..Nice grass field and weather looks to be fantastic..

Williams women knocking the ball around the pitch. Nice 2-touch futbol. If only the Williams Men could start playing like this.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 02:03:46 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:01:15 PM
Williams women knocking the ball around the pitch. Nice 2-touch futbol. If only the Williams Men could start playing like this.

As soon as I saw the first two sentences, I knew what the third one would be. 😂
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:21:38 PM
lol...Bloots how are we feeling today? What % do you give Brandeis today...Basically, will we see a Rolldeis post at about 7:30pm tonight
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:21:38 PM
lol...Bloots how are we feeling today? What % do you give Brandeis today...Basically, will we see a Rolldeis post at about 7:30pm tonight

I am probably the wrong person to ask. I know you're supposed to optimistically pick your team/conference/etc., but as the resident skeptic/pragmatist I usually steer clear of predictions, and often find myself picking against my team in high-profile clashes, although I did correctly think Brandeis would beat Drew in the Sweet 16. Today, I'll bite.

I will give Brandeis 35%. I do think if they score first they will be in a great spot. I also think their experience (as a squad) in the Final 4 is unique. That said, I also think Messiah will be the best side they've played all year by quite some distance. That's not to disrespect Chicago or Tufts, but watching Messiah rip apart Rochester was something else. They have some serious pace and skill and I think will come out of the gates flying.

That being said, here are my predictions for tonight and tomorrow:

Messiah 3-1 Brandeis
Chicago 1-0 North Park (OT)

Messiah 2-1 Chicago
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:44:53 PM
Wow...So another guy that thinks we will be seeing a ton of goals this weekend..Interesting..You really think Messiah will get a 3 spot on Brandeis? Idk I suppose it is possible especially if Messiah gets one early then Brandeis will have to go at them which will leave them susceptible at the back but I do not see more than 1 goal in the game maybe 2..maybe
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:45:56 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 29, 2017, 11:20:20 PM
yeah during our group dinner each captain had a 5min speech. RUC was the only team that never made it there and you could tell bc we had 40 kids with us and everyone else had like 20. our school let us bring the whole team for the experience.

I will say this, the NCAA really makes you feel honored to be there and everything was incredible. there was a floor where they have a room loaded with snacks just for us players lol and about your comment about doing anything to go back.... yes, literally ANYTHING to go back again. you grow up as a child with that as a very attainable goal. The amount of hours of lifting running playing studying andnits all to play in a Final Four as a student athlete. 1% of student athletes will have the chance at a National Championship. if you really think about it that's amazing. and I feel bad for the teams who were almost there that didn't quite make it. from the first day of preseason we sat down as a group and said to ourselves "we have something special do not waste it" a final four run consists of a few components, which are Hard work, Dedication, Family, Love/respect for the game, and finally the most Important LUCK. you need it and when it happens you know... but enough rambling on


Well done...+k for the emotional and honest response..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:44:53 PM
Wow...So another guy that thinks we will be seeing a ton of goals this weekend..Interesting..You really think Messiah will get a 3 spot on Brandeis? Idk I suppose it is possible especially if Messiah gets one early then Brandeis will have to go at them which will leave them susceptible at the back but I do not see more than 1 goal in the game maybe 2..maybe

I think the scenario you outlined is my thought process. I think if Messiah comes out flying, which I think they will, and they were to get one Brandeis would have to chase the game. Whether or not that happens, I have no idea, but that's my gut feeling.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:44:53 PM
Wow...So another guy that thinks we will be seeing a ton of goals this weekend..Interesting..You really think Messiah will get a 3 spot on Brandeis? Idk I suppose it is possible especially if Messiah gets one early then Brandeis will have to go at them which will leave them susceptible at the back but I do not see more than 1 goal in the game maybe 2..maybe

I think the scenario you outlined is my thought process. I think if Messiah comes out flying, which I think they will, and they were to get one Brandeis would have to chase the game. Whether or not that happens, I have no idea, but that's my gut feeling.




yeah that's what I was thinking. messiah get an early lead and Brandies getting caught on counters. i've seen them do it before haha
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 02:03:46 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 02:01:15 PM
Williams women knocking the ball around the pitch. Nice 2-touch futbol. If only the Williams Men could start playing like this.

As soon as I saw the first two sentences, I knew what the third one would be. 😂

Agreed, Mr. Right. They knock the ball around better than 99% of the men's teams.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Saint of Old on December 01, 2017, 04:58:13 PM
This is the beauty of our sport, although physically exerting, it is played 90% with intelligence.

Women can be dominant in the sport because it is still head over feet.

Carly LLoyd is one of the best players I have seen in an American shirt in terms of soccer genius and IQ male or female.


Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: paclassic89 on December 01, 2017, 05:01:47 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

Let's not get carried away...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:02:06 PM
Brandeis and Messiah ready to go...Game faces are on...Let's see if Hernandez can get an initial hard tackle to get them pumped..Nothing like a crunching tackle in my book
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
A loose pass allows Brandeis to get forward and get a shot off (blocked)...not bad from the Judges in the first 2 mins.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 05:10:42 PM
Ooh, close from Messiah...Judges came close to shooting themselves in the foot there.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 05:18:58 PM
Great through ball to West who gets the ball taken off his feet by Vinson for a corner, which comes to nothing. Decent chance.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 05:22:17 PM
Announcer says that all teams except TCNJ play on turf. Not true: Brandeis plays on turf.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 05:22:17 PM
Announcer says that all teams except TCNJ play on turf. Not true: Brandeis plays on turf.

He has said a number of inaccurate statements.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:31:07 PM
Fantastic saves by Bell and Woodhouse...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:31:07 PM
Fantastic saves by Bell and Woodhouse...

That west can FLY
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Good game so far...I like Brandeis approach in their 4-2-3-1 and pressing but not chasing
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:33:50 PM
The match up between Thomas and Hennessy has been really fun to watch.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:37:37 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:31:07 PM
Fantastic saves by Bell and Woodhouse...

That west can FLY


Yea Messiah is using West on the left side a ton and they are really going at Handler...handler has got his hands full right now
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:39:21 PM
Espiga with a GREAT volley opportunity and he smashes it way over the goal. Messiah center backs looking kind of shaky this half.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:39:49 PM
Brandeis going deeper than I thought into their bench and Messiah is almost takes advantage with 10 min left in the Half..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:37:37 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:31:07 PM
Fantastic saves by Bell and Woodhouse...

That west can FLY


Yea Messiah is using West on the left side a ton and they are really going at Handler...handler has got his hands full right now

I think they switched west over to the right side? Unless its a sub that looks like him.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:41:53 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:37:37 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:31:07 PM
Fantastic saves by Bell and Woodhouse...

That west can FLY


Yea Messiah is using West on the left side a ton and they are really going at Handler...handler has got his hands full right now

I think they switched west over to the right side? Unless its a sub that looks like him.

Yeah, they had. But now he is on the bench. Wondering what the reason was for the switch of sides.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:47:27 PM
As much as Bell makes great saves i remember him at Lycoming earlier in the year misjudge / drop a couple cross or 2...He just did it again with about 5 min left in the Half..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:49:39 PM
Very good Half...0-0 at the Half..Both teams playing well..Anyone's game
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:52:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 05:49:39 PM
Very good Half...0-0 at the Half..Both teams playing well..Anyone's game

I'd give the slight edge to Messiah so far, but both teams have had a few great opportunities to score. As anticipated, Messiah attacks very well down the wings. The Brandeis D has been SPECTACULAR so far (vincent and hennessy especially), cutting out most crosses and doing a good job of limiting Thomas and west 1 on 1.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 05:57:18 PM
great game so far. guess MR Right is right AGAIN. Llow scoring game but very eventful. ill take it
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 06:08:34 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 05:52:18 PM
I'd give the slight edge to Messiah so far, but both teams have had a few great opportunities to score. As anticipated, Messiah attacks very well down the wings. The Brandeis D has been SPECTACULAR so far (vincent and hennessy especially), cutting out most crosses and doing a good job of limiting Thomas and west 1 on 1.

Agree with this in its entirety. Messiah probably shading possession 60-40 but Brandeis has had some nice moves and Hennessy and Vinson have both been very good. As for Messiah, West has caused a lot of problems, Thomas has been somewhat quiet.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:11:44 PM
Flahive just busting up top...

Interesting Note: I thought the ref looked familiar but the Ref is Matt Mercier a constant in New England D1 and D3 reffing circles..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:19:11 PM
Game getting stretched...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 06:21:11 PM
Instead of "Roll Deis," Goal Deis.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 06:21:25 PM
GOALLLLL BRANDEIS!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
BIG GOAL....Messiah did not deal with that set piece well at all....Gans with almost a goal right before that if not for a excellent defensive play to block Gans shot...30 minutes left...Brandeis will get very compact now...This will be interesting to see if Brandeis can keep up the pressure
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:26:32 PM
Handler MUST do better with the ball at his feet...He is giving the ball away a ton today...Gotta be careful
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:39:43 PM
Woodhouse just a BIG mistake....Announcer is right though that 3 guys on the backpost were unmarked...Gotta regroup here for Deis
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 06:41:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:39:43 PM
Woodhouse just a BIG mistake....Announcer is right though that 3 guys on the backpost were unmarked...Gotta regroup here for Deis

That was definitely poor, although I saw Bell get put in a similarly compromising position on high balls a couple of times. That said, Bell's flubs didn't result in a goal. Big test of the Judges' character coming up.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 06:44:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:11:44 PM
Flahive just busting up top...

Interesting Note: I thought the ref looked familiar but the Ref is Matt Mercier a constant in New England D1 and D3 reffing circles..

He did the Tufts - JHU game a couple weeks ago.  Stood next to his parents.  Think that was the first time I attended a game where the spectators were there to watch the ref.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 06:46:20 PM
Allen gets the biggest goal of his life with 10 left, 2-1 Brandeis.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 06:47:31 PM
BRANDEIS GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 2-1 with 10 minutes left.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 06:48:10 PM
and messiah ties it back up on a fantastic volley
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 06:48:28 PM
Here come the goals . . .
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 06:50:30 PM
hahaha I knew I was crazy but I had a feeling this was going to happen.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 06:51:55 PM
Big Goal....I must say a Messiah player failed to tackle Brandeis player near half that started the whole play...I would be so pissed as a coach if my player is so SOFT to not tackle there...

OMG....Brandeis just does not want to win this game..Just cannot give Messiah all this space...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 06:52:52 PM
just saying i'm having flash backs to 2013 rn with Camden vs Loras. same kind of game
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:00:43 PM
Football. Bloody hell!

What a hit by Thomas. That was great control.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:25:21 PM
Great goal by Brautigam. Dagger to the Judges, but fair play to the Falcons on a great game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: swibbles on December 01, 2017, 07:26:58 PM
Old Testament < New Testament I guess.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:25:21 PM
Great goal by Brautigam. Dagger to the Judges, but fair play to the Falcons on a great game.

I'm not sure I would call that a great goal. Woodhouse was WAY out of position. That ball had no pace on it and was right in the center of the goal. Woodhouse let Brandeis down today in a major way. 2 goals because of bad positioning/decision making on his part.

Kudos to Messiah on the gritty win. It's not easy to go down twice in a national semifinal and comeback to win.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 07:31:12 PM
yeNCAA is saying Brandies won. WHO WON?!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:25:21 PM
Great goal by Brautigam. Dagger to the Judges, but fair play to the Falcons on a great game.

A nice shot, but not a great goal.  Woodhouse too far off his line, and D just backing up too much for the last half hour of the game.  Contrary to announcers' calls, not one of Woodhouse's better games.

I feel like Brandeis D after Vinson and Hennesey just wasn't quite good enough, unless the midfield packed it in and stayed compact to help them.  To Deis' credit, they were going for it, but couldn't afford to get stretched like they did.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:33:03 PM
Great game all around.  Congrats to Messiah, whp is now favored to win title 11 tomorrow.  Brandeis still gets a national semifinalist trophy to take home to the Napoli Room.  My team ended up on the wrong side of the scoreline tonight, but a well played game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 07:33:12 PM
What a shame...Brandeis did start to look gassed but man that is a tough goal to give up...As good as Woodhouse has been all year and I mean he was great all year he made 2 bad mistakes today.I was impressed with #15 Walter today but I thought Brandeis gave Messiah just a little to much space on the ball..I really feel for the Brandeis Seniors...They lose a TON of good players....They had the lead twice in the game and TBH with 10 minutes left and a 1 goal lead you gotta HOLD ON somehow someway...just could not hold on...I feel gutted and I am not even a Deis supporter...That is a tough loss for Margolis..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:34:26 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:33:03 PM
Great game all around.  Congrats to Messiah, who is now favored to win title 11 tomorrow. 

I will be surprised if Messiah wins playing like that tomorrow . . .
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:25:21 PM
Great goal by Brautigam. Dagger to the Judges, but fair play to the Falcons on a great game.

A nice shot, but not a great goal.  Woodhouse too far off his line, and D just backing up too much for the last half hour of the game.  Contrary to announcers' calls, not one of Woodhouse's better games.

I feel like Brandeis D after Vinson and Hennesey just wasn't quite good enough, unless the midfield packed it in and stayed compact to help them.  To Deis' credit, they were going for it, but couldn't afford to get stretched like they did.

Agree.  Can't let Messiah score so soon after each goal, especially the second time, but everybody for Messiah is dangerous when you let them get a hit.  I thought Brandt was unsung hero for Messiah.  Played a great game.  Very good D3 player who never should have left Messiah.  Hennessey was great on Thomas but Vinson also outstanding.  Tufts would have had a little more than Brandeis in terms of matching Messiah's overall talent, but Brandeis had an excellent showing and very easily could have taken it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
I'm not sure I would call that a great goal. Woodhouse was WAY out of position. That ball had no pace on it and was right in the center of the goal. Woodhouse let Brandeis down today in a major way. 2 goals because of bad positioning/decision making on his part.

Kudos to Messiah on the gritty win. It's not easy to go down twice in a national semifinal and comeback to win.

It can be a great goal even if he could have done better. Just look at Rooney's goal against West Ham this week. Disagree that he was WAY out of position, though -- I actually think he wasn't that far off his line -- it was just that well struck.

Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
A nice shot, but not a great goal.  Woodhouse too far off his line, and D just backing up too much for the last half hour of the game.  Contrary to announcers' calls, not one of Woodhouse's better games.

I feel like Brandeis D after Vinson and Hennesey just wasn't quite good enough, unless the midfield packed it in and stayed compact to help them.  To Deis' credit, they were going for it, but couldn't afford to get stretched like they did.

Agree with most of what you said, except, again, I disagree that he was that far off his line. First goal, absolutely could have done better. That said, the second goal killed them. Vinson and Hennessy were very good, but not the best games from Handler and Walter.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:37:36 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
I'm not sure I would call that a great goal. Woodhouse was WAY out of position. That ball had no pace on it and was right in the center of the goal. Woodhouse let Brandeis down today in a major way. 2 goals because of bad positioning/decision making on his part.

Kudos to Messiah on the gritty win. It's not easy to go down twice in a national semifinal and comeback to win.

It can be a great goal even if he could have done better. Disagree that he was WAY out of position, though -- I actually think he wasn't that far off his line -- it was just that well struck.

Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
A nice shot, but not a great goal.  Woodhouse too far off his line, and D just backing up too much for the last half hour of the game.  Contrary to announcers' calls, not one of Woodhouse's better games.

I feel like Brandeis D after Vinson and Hennesey just wasn't quite good enough, unless the midfield packed it in and stayed compact to help them.  To Deis' credit, they were going for it, but couldn't afford to get stretched like they did.

Agree with most of what you said, except, again, I don't think he was that far off his line. First goal, absolutely could have done better. That said, the second goal killed them. Vinson and Hennessy were very good, but not the best games from Handler and Walter.

Bloots, it's ok; you can admit once in a while that a player on your team made a mistake. Woodhouse did not do well on the winner, and I'm sure he would agree if you asked him.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:34:26 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:33:03 PM
Great game all around.  Congrats to Messiah, who is now favored to win title 11 tomorrow. 

I will be surprised if Messiah wins playing like that tomorrow . . .

Messiah has never lost a national title game in d3 men's soccer.  Chicago or North Park will have their work cut out for them, but kudos if they can pull it off.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:37:36 PM
Bloots, it's ok; you can admit once in a while that a player on your team made a mistake. Woodhouse did not do well on the winner, and I'm sure he would agree if you asked him.

Hahahaha if you don't think I admit my own team's players making mistakes then you haven't been paying attention. I absolutely thought he made a huge gaffe on the first one. Surprised that you would say that. -K
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 07:39:56 PM
No I do not think Tufts would have done better than Deis today...Brandeis went straight up with them and Tufts would not have...Deis gave us a very entertaining game..I will say Tufts would have been better with the lead than Brandeis were
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 07:41:45 PM
Brandeis was tired.  Needed to win in regulation.  A lot of focus on Woodhouse on the goal, and I thought he had no business being caught out, but a little lucky too as Messiah player hit ball only place Woodhouse probably can't get it and not sure that was intentional.  Bigger mistake was letting Robbins drift all the way across the field with the ball but at that point Brandeis was holding on (but still getting decent counter chances).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 07:43:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 07:39:56 PM
No I do not think Tufts would have done better than Deis today...Brandeis went straight up with them and Tufts would not have...Deis gave us a very entertaining game..I will say Tufts would have been better with the lead than Brandeis were

Agree that on the day Brandeis was right there.  Just don't think Tufts would have tired.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:37:36 PM
Bloots, it's ok; you can admit once in a while that a player on your team made a mistake. Woodhouse did not do well on the winner, and I'm sure he would agree if you asked him.

Hahahaha if you don't think I admit my own team's players making mistakes then you haven't been paying attention. I absolutely thought he made a huge gaffe on the first one. Surprised that you would say that. -K

Just wanted to see if you were still paying attention.  Yes, I know you are not afraid to criticize your own team.

Tough way to go out for the Ocels.  I've known them for 15 years, and it's a shame they came so close without getting to a final.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:39:24 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:37:36 PM
Bloots, it's ok; you can admit once in a while that a player on your team made a mistake. Woodhouse did not do well on the winner, and I'm sure he would agree if you asked him.

Hahahaha if you don't think I admit my own team's players making mistakes then you haven't been paying attention. I absolutely thought he made a huge gaffe on the first one. Surprised that you would say that. -K

You were a little quick on the karma trigger there.  It's all in good fun, and I guess you don't know me that well either. No offense taken -- but I did reciprocate.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 07:48:41 PM
I have a feeling this next game will have a good amount of goals too. good luck to whoever has to play Messiah tomorrow being 10/10 in final games. it's possible but you need some luck and of course heart. Messiah is too experienced to let them hang around like that tonight. it happened in 2013 with Loras(although I have yet to see another team press and annoy teams like they did ) you get complacent and one mistake causes what just happened
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
You were a little quick on the karma trigger there.  It's all in good fun, and I guess you don't know me that well either. No offense taken -- but I did reciprocate.

Perhaps, but the Internet is a bad purveyor of intent, and your post -- or at least the wording -- I thought was uncalled for. That said, I agree it is all in good fun, and I did not take any offense to your reciprocation.

Hopefully the next game brings a similar number of goals.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 07:51:31 PM
Messiah could be tired tomorrow too.  They got pushed hard.  Credit to the Falcons for coming back twice.  Thomas was pretty chippy today.  Is that usual for him?  Couple of very hard (dangerous?) tackles, especially once on Ocel, and complained a ton to the refs.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 01, 2017, 07:56:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 07:39:56 PM
No I do not think Tufts would have done better than Deis today...Brandeis went straight up with them and Tufts would not have...Deis gave us a very entertaining game..I will say Tufts would have been better with the lead than Brandeis were

Who's to say if Tufts would have done better. Can never say, but I do agree with the point about Tufts holding a lead.  Brandeis played well. Congrats on a fine season. I was rooting for the Judges. BLOOTS, now u can cheer for Arsenal over Man Utd. This weekend...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:57:35 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 01, 2017, 07:56:01 PM
Who's to say if Tufts would have done better. Can never say, but I do agree with the point about Tufts holding a lead.  Brandeis played well. Congrats on a fine season. I was rooting for the Judges. BLOOTS, now u can cheer for Arsenal over Man Utd. This weekend...

As a Liverpool fan, would have done that anyway. :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 08:09:54 PM
Comments here are heard too starkly and things getting mentioned are about things with tiny differences.  Like while I thought Woodhouse got caught I didn't think he was WAY off the line either.  He would have saved almost any shot except for one directly over his head.  While I think Tufts might have matched Messiah physically a little better they might have lost 3-0 too.  Brandeis played to win and easily could have won.  Holding off most teams with a lead is also a little different than holding Messiah off.  Easier said than done.

Brandeis also could have really used DePietto today.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
Messiah has never lost a national title game in d3 men's soccer.  Chicago or North Park will have their hands cut out for them, but kudos if they can pull it off.

Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 07:48:41 PM
I have a feeling this next game will have a good amount of goals too. good luck to whoever has to play Messiah tomorrow being 10/10 in final games. it's possible but you need some luck and of course heart. Messiah is too experienced to let them hang around like that tonight. it happened in 2013 with Loras(although I have yet to see another team press and annoy teams like they did ) you get complacent and one mistake causes what just happened

Keep in mind that Messiah's perfect championship-match legacy has nothing to do with the current Falcons. The last time that the Falcons were in the national championship match, back in 2013, the current players were still in high school. Therefore, none of them have ever been in this position before. Just because players wearing the same uniform as you in seasons past were a perfect 10-for-10 doesn't mean that some sort of supernatural mojo in that kit automatically transfers over to you. NPU and Chicago each have as much national-title-match experience as does this particular Falcons squad.

It's all about the players, not the kits that they wear. If Messiah wins tomorrow, it'll be because the Falcons are a great side, not because of magical powers.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 01, 2017, 08:21:19 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
Messiah has never lost a national title game in d3 men's soccer.  Chicago or North Park will have their hands cut out for them, but kudos if they can pull it off.

Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 07:48:41 PM
I have a feeling this next game will have a good amount of goals too. good luck to whoever has to play Messiah tomorrow being 10/10 in final games. it's possible but you need some luck and of course heart. Messiah is too experienced to let them hang around like that tonight. it happened in 2013 with Loras(although I have yet to see another team press and annoy teams like they did ) you get complacent and one mistake causes what just happened

Keep in mind that Messiah's perfect championship-match legacy has nothing to do with the current Falcons. The last time that the Falcons were in the national championship match, back in 2013, the current players were still in high school. Therefore, none of them have ever been in this position before. Just because players wearing the same uniform as you in seasons past were a perfect 10-for-10 doesn't mean that some sort of supernatural mojo in that kit automatically transfers over to you. NPU and Chicago each have as much national-title-match experience as does this particular Falcons squad.

It's all about the players, not the kits that they wear. If Messiah wins tomorrow, it'll be because the Falcons are a great side, not because of magical powers.

Well said!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 01, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
Messiah has never lost a national title game in d3 men's soccer.  Chicago or North Park will have their hands cut out for them, but kudos if they can pull it off.

Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 07:48:41 PM
I have a feeling this next game will have a good amount of goals too. good luck to whoever has to play Messiah tomorrow being 10/10 in final games. it's possible but you need some luck and of course heart. Messiah is too experienced to let them hang around like that tonight. it happened in 2013 with Loras(although I have yet to see another team press and annoy teams like they did ) you get complacent and one mistake causes what just happened

Keep in mind that Messiah's perfect championship-match legacy has nothing to do with the current Falcons. The last time that the Falcons were in the national championship match, back in 2013, the current players were still in high school. Therefore, none of them have ever been in this position before. Just because players wearing the same uniform as you in seasons past were a perfect 10-for-10 doesn't mean that some sort of supernatural mojo in that kit automatically transfers over to you. NPU and Chicago each have as much national-title-match experience as does this particular Falcons squad.

It's all about the players, not the kits that they wear. If Messiah wins tomorrow, it'll be because the Falcons are a great side, not because of magical powers.

It is indeed all about the players, and soccer is a sport of "giant killing".  The Falcons are coming in to tomorrow's game as the perceived "giant" because of their history in national title games.  These particular Messiah players may think that it may be unfair to call them "giants", but reputation precedes them, and both teams playing in tomorrow's game will have a short turnaround period.

That being said, I hope that we have a great title game tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 08:29:37 PM
Wow....Koh a great ball across the box...Chicago MUST finish that
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 08:32:26 PM
Oh HOW DID THEY NOT SCORE?! I was sure that would go in.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 08:35:41 PM
Chicago with more threatening looks but the Vikings are looking solid going forward.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 08:36:22 PM
NPU has to step it up. The Maroons own possession thus far.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Sounds like the announcers took time to read this thread between games . . .
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 08:57:38 PM
As a lifelong Nordic skier, I love that the announcers are talking about the niche (in America, at least) sport...they are correct that it is fascinating to watch.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 09:13:04 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Sounds like the announcers took time to read this thread between games . . .

Yes, and PBP announcer Dave McHugh obviously read my PM to him about how to pronounce the names of NPU players ... except that the one he's messing up is the easy one, Kyle Robson. ;)

D-Mac, if you're reading this, remember -- it's ROB-son, not ROBE-son.

(And tell Ira that it's LEN-artz, not Luh-NARTZ. Kinda funny that it's two American players for NPU that are causing them so much trouble.)

But I won't give them too much of a hard time. Four matches in one day is a heckuva lot of work, and a heckuva lot of names to remember. Overall, D-Mac and Ira are doing a great job.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:13:46 PM
I do not think North park has a SOG yet...That being said besides that one really solid chance Chicago has not had much else either..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:14:22 PM
One of those games where a Lopez finish off a set piece would be enough to win this
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:15:14 PM
Do we have a link yet to the Brandeis and Messiah press conferences?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 09:16:59 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:15:14 PM
Do we have a link yet to the Brandeis and Messiah press conferences?

I don't know but my pizza guy showed up without my drink and said he'd be back a half-hour ago. I am not pleased.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: irapthor on December 01, 2017, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Sounds like the announcers took time to read this thread between games . . .

You have two Division III career guys here who do try to pay attention a little bit :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:21:22 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 09:16:59 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:15:14 PM
Do we have a link yet to the Brandeis and Messiah press conferences?

I don't know but my pizza guy showed up without my drink and said he'd be back a half-hour ago. I am not pleased.


Only in Cambridge
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:33:37 PM
Ref starting to lose it....Game getting chippy
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 09:43:41 PM
John Madden thinks that Chicago has to get one with all the chances they've had if they want to win it. It just takes one going the other way to undo all that hard work. And North Park is starting to put some stuff together.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
WOW...I try not to be critical of officials but that was a TERRIBLE call by the linesman. As the announcers said, Romero was about 2 yards onside.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 09:47:13 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
WOW...I try not to be critical of officials but that was a TERRIBLE call by the linesman. As the announcers said, Romero was about 2 yards onside.

wow that referee is about to FAIL his assessment for this game. and probably never ref this high of a level game again. if you call an offside wrong that would determine a game/goal you automatically fail that assessment. and i'm 100% sure they are being assessed this weekend
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 09:48:11 PM
NPU got a break on that blown offsides call to negate the goal. But the Vikes are living on borrowed time. They need to step it up.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 09:51:39 PM
Koh had Adeosun wide open...This North Park GK looks solid....Madden could be right as if this goes to PK's he could be the difference..Question will be if this goes to PK's does Chicago put Hill Bonin on the bench again...


WOW....That is not even close..NO WAY offsides......

Announcer makes John Madden proud by saying "70  minutes in this 0-0 game feels like a 1-0 game"...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 09:58:46 PM
Great save by Bonin off the second ball from a free kick. He did very well to get down to that.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 10:00:27 PM
Koh has been Chicago's dangerman this game, perhaps along with Adeyosun. Those two have great pace and skill that has unsettled the Vikings.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 10:00:40 PM
North park with their 1st dangerous chance of the game...Chicago starting to get frustrated....

If this game goes to PK's does Chicago put in their backup GK for Hill Bonin again?  This North Park GK could be the difference in PK's...I will say Chicago was clinical in PK's v Emory in the Elite 8...Cart before Horse I know
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 10:14:01 PM
NPU seemed to find its footing towards the end, but the Vikes still got outshot in reg, 18-2, and couldn't put together more than two or three passes at a stretch. This should've been Chicago's match in normal time.

Stulen has gotten NPU into OT by standing on his head in net. Now the Vikes have to make their keeper's great performance translate into a win.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Medicated Pete on December 01, 2017, 10:21:33 PM
 ::) Can't Wait for the Deep Dish pizza  :P
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 10:35:35 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
I'm not sure I would call that a great goal. Woodhouse was WAY out of position. That ball had no pace on it and was right in the center of the goal. Woodhouse let Brandeis down today in a major way. 2 goals because of bad positioning/decision making on his part.

Kudos to Messiah on the gritty win. It's not easy to go down twice in a national semifinal and comeback to win.

It can be a great goal even if he could have done better. Just look at Rooney's goal against West Ham this week. Disagree that he was WAY out of position, though -- I actually think he wasn't that far off his line -- it was just that well struck.

Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 01, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
A nice shot, but not a great goal.  Woodhouse too far off his line, and D just backing up too much for the last half hour of the game.  Contrary to announcers' calls, not one of Woodhouse's better games.

I feel like Brandeis D after Vinson and Hennesey just wasn't quite good enough, unless the midfield packed it in and stayed compact to help them.  To Deis' credit, they were going for it, but couldn't afford to get stretched like they did.

Agree with most of what you said, except, again, I disagree that he was that far off his line. First goal, absolutely could have done better. That said, the second goal killed them. Vinson and Hennessy were very good, but not the best games from Handler and Walter.

Rooney's goal last week in NO WAY compares to the game winner today. It was not a great goal. It was a weak shot without pace in the center of the goal.

If he wasn't that far off his line, how was he essentially chipped? The ball was dipping down when it crossed the goal line. Check the replay. I'm probably the biggest Brandeis homer on this thread - i played for them in the last 10 years and watch every single game that there is video for. I love the squad and I love woodhouse. But I can also call a spade a spade. He was in a BAD position and off his line and if he had positioned himself better Messiah would not have scored. Period.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 10:43:30 PM
Will Chicago use the 2nd string GK again?

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 10:52:28 PM
YES!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: mr_b on December 01, 2017, 10:55:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2017, 10:52:28 PM
YES!
Congratulations to the Vikings! 
They showed a lot of heart and grit.  Best of luck in tomorrow's championship game.  And congratulations to the Maroons on a very hard-fought game.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ryan Harmanis on December 01, 2017, 10:55:46 PM
Bummer for Chicago and Brandeis. Congrats to NPU and Messiah. Hate to see referees miss a game-deciding call. Also hate penalties. I like the idea of pulling off one player every five minutes until someone scores.

NPU will have to be better tomorrow. Can't let two great teams pepper you for 180 220 minutes and not concede...unless you were  Middlebury in 2007 (I think).
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 10:56:30 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 01, 2017, 10:35:35 PM
Rooney's goal last week in NO WAY compares to the game winner today. It was not a great goal. It was a weak shot without pace in the center of the goal.

If he wasn't that far off his line, how was he essentially chipped? The ball was dipping down when it crossed the goal line. Check the replay. I'm probably the biggest Brandeis homer on this thread - i played for them in the last 10 years and watch every single game that there is video for. I love the squad and I love woodhouse. But I can also call a spade a spade. He was in a BAD position and off his line and if he had positioned himself better Messiah would not have scored. Period.

Calm down, Spicey. I did watch the replay. He was about 3 yards off the goal line. That is not "that far." He was essentially chipped because he wasn't perfectly positioned and it snuck right under the bar. Look at what PaulNewman said -- if the kid put it anywhere else, he saves it. And to infer I'm not able to call a spade a spade is ludicrous, given that I'm the one often pointing out the Judges' shortcomings. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. Period.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on December 01, 2017, 10:57:23 PM
Congrats to North Park!   Honestly, that offside call was not a good call.  But that is soccer.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 01, 2017, 10:58:00 PM
If you don't put your chances away when you are on top, you can have no complaints when the result goes against you. Tough ending for Chicago, but congrats to the Vikings.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 10:58:09 PM
Could be a repeat of 2012 NCAA FINAL when Messiah ripped apart Ohio Northern 5-1....They might blow North Park off the field tomorrow unless North Park GK performs a miracle tomorrow...He might need to make 20 Saves tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blue_jays on December 01, 2017, 10:59:37 PM
Chicago proved to be the superior side all night. Rough way to end it, but an outstanding year for the Maroons regardless. They have much to be proud of.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 01, 2017, 11:01:05 PM
yeah i'm worries for North Park. they did not impress me like the first 2 weekends. but still they did what they needed to win.

this is also the reason I do not agree with the back to back games. two overtime games, kids are absolutely exhausted but hey guess what you get to wake up tomorrow and do it all over again!! they better pray they have a few extra CCs of adrenaline tomorrow
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: tjcummingsfan on December 01, 2017, 11:01:52 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on December 01, 2017, 10:57:23 PM
Congrats to North Park!   Honestly, that offside call was not a good call.  But that is soccer.

You won't get any argument from this NP fan.  That was a bad call, but you're right, that's sports...


Stulen was incredible, and North Park looked like they finally got things going in overtime.  I think tomorrow will be a great game. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
I just can't watch sports any more.  Didn't even care that much but both teams I was rooting for lost.  And Chicago never should have lost that game (not advanced).  Sports are so devastating.  I suspect Mr. Right is right.  Messiah is home free.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Medicated Pete on December 01, 2017, 11:03:45 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2017, 10:58:09 PM
Could be a repeat of 2012 NCAA FINAL when Messiah ripped apart Ohio Northern 5-1....They might blow North Park off the field tomorrow unless North Park GK performs a miracle tomorrow...He might need to make 20 Saves tomorrow.
Yep that Loras match was the Final.
Polar Bears had nothing that day..

Congrats to NP, bringing more recondition to the program!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blue_jays on December 01, 2017, 11:06:02 PM
NPU was a shadow of the confident, athletic team they were when they faced the Maroons in October. Part of it was due to fact Adeosun played this game after sitting out the October matchup, and you saw the impact he had on the second go-round.
The Vikings have to find their mojo or Messiah will basically do the same thing the Maroons did tonight, but with more goals.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: swibbles on December 01, 2017, 11:30:40 PM
The best team lost.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Jim Matson on December 01, 2017, 11:32:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
All the teams are staying in the same hotel... really nice Sheraton actually. Wish I could convince myself to spend the money to stay there. LOL

You should have been put there! You did a great job today. I really enjoyed your broadcast. It was good to hear Ira too.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 01, 2017, 10:55:46 PM
Bummer for Chicago and Brandeis. Congrats to NPU and Messiah. Hate to see referees miss a game-deciding call. Also hate penalties. I like the idea of pulling off one player every five minutes until someone scores.

Agree with you on both counts, Ryan. NPU caught a big break with that blown offsides call. And I ferociously hate PK shootouts. I'd like to see players pulled off and the match played out until a winning live goal, too.

Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 01, 2017, 10:55:46 PMNPU will have to be better tomorrow. Can't let two great teams pepper you for 180 220 minutes and not concede...unless you were  Middlebury in 2007 (I think).

Agree with you even more about this. NPU can't simply rely upon Stulen standing on his head in order to bring the Big Doorstop back home to the North Side. The Vikings will have to play much, much better than they did tonight. I was seriously impressed by what I saw from Messiah tonight.

BTW, congratulations to the Maroons on a fantastic season. I'd probably be pretty salty if I was a U of C player after that result, but from John Born's remarks in the postgame interview it sounded like the Chicago players and coaches handled the situation with total class.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:08:37 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
I just can't watch sports any more.  Didn't even care that much but both teams I was rooting for lost.  And Chicago never should have lost that game (not advanced).  Sports are so devastating.  I suspect Mr. Right is right.  Messiah is home free.

Well, I guess that NPU might as well head for the airport tomorrow morning rather than even bothering to show up at UNCG Stadium tomorrow night. ::)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: tjcummingsfan on December 02, 2017, 12:26:57 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:08:37 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 01, 2017, 11:02:35 PM
I just can't watch sports any more.  Didn't even care that much but both teams I was rooting for lost.  And Chicago never should have lost that game (not advanced).  Sports are so devastating.  I suspect Mr. Right is right.  Messiah is home free.

Well, I guess that NPU might as well head for the airport tomorrow morning rather than even bothering to show up at UNCG Stadium tomorrow night. ::)

Seriously!

Can NP get some credit.  They kept the best forward in the country off the scoresheet tonight.  They clearly didn't have their A game (really not even their B or C game) until the last 5-10 minutes of regulation and overtime, and still they advance.  It's not a fluke that they're here.  Tomorrow should be another really difficult, really close match. 
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:30:48 AM
Ah, they've already made up their minds. They've written off NPU. Let them.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on December 02, 2017, 07:34:32 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:30:48 AM
Ah, they've already made up their minds. They've written off NPU. Let them.

Let the record show that I never write off any Falcon opponents. And, I am not starting now.

I am excited about how well this group has been playing since early October, but that doesn't mean that I view any opponent as sliced bread. Especially one that has hasn't lost since early September. nPU is better than I had thought a few weeks ago, when I questioned their top regional ranking.  They could very well bring it home tonight. A scary thought since they are so young in terms of academic standing if not necessarily age.

For me, the most impressive feature of this Falcon team is their toughness. They just aren't as talented as the team that Tufts beat four years ago, but they have not been shut out all season and have come back to win or got the only goal very late several times. The classic Falcon powerhouses didn't do that often--they didn't have to. They obliterated even top teams. For example in the final one year NYU didn't get one single shot--shot, not SOG. These guys have o battle all the way.
/
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on December 02, 2017, 07:49:14 AM
Admittedly I was not paying full attention to the game but I feel like I heard Koh and Adeosun's names called all night, but I barely remember hearing Lopez mentioned. Am I wrong in thinking that?  Brandeis keeper may have been caught out but it wasn't as bad as the way Loras lost their 2013 semi in overtime to RUC via a 60 yard floater that carried in the San Antonio breeze. That one still hurts in Dubuque.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 08:33:32 AM
Quote from: Dubuquer on December 02, 2017, 07:49:14 AM
Admittedly I was not paying full attention to the game but I feel like I heard Koh and Adeosun's names called all night, but I barely remember hearing Lopez mentioned. Am I wrong in thinking that?  Brandeis keeper may have been caught out but it wasn't as bad as the way Loras lost their 2013 semi in overtime to RUC via a 60 yard floater that carried in the San Antonio breeze. That one still hurts in Dubuque.

You would be correct — Lopez had a couple of efforts in the air but Adeyosun and Koh were the main Maroon sources of danger.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blue_jays on December 02, 2017, 09:50:17 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:30:48 AM
Ah, they've already made up their minds. They've written off NPU. Let them.

No one wrote off NPU before the semifinal game, in fact everyone was pretty sure it would be a great match-up, with many split opinions on who would advance. People are mostly reacting in disappointment to the fact that the Vikings were dominated for 100 minutes and felt UChicago was the superior side. It's not personal animus. Until this year's breakout, most people nationally didn't have an opinion on NPU for good or ill.

NPU fans can feel defensive about the reaction to their advancement, as is their right. If they go out and beat Messiah, the kudos will come in droves. Making the Final Four for any team is a massive achievement that can't be cheapened by comments on a message board.

Simultaneously, Chicago supporters will be rightfully salty forevermore about the called-off goal and the accurate feeling that they should be in the final instead. You can't begrudge them that opinion either. NPU did not look impressive in the semifinal (it's one game, it happens), and their great goalie pulled them through the fire. NPU can be both good and lucky - both are required to advance to this stage.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 10:06:59 AM
Quote from: blue_jays on December 02, 2017, 09:50:17 AM
No one wrote off NPU before the semifinal game, in fact everyone was pretty sure it would be a great match-up, with many split opinions on who would advance. People are mostly reacting in disappointment to the fact that the Vikings were dominated for 100 minutes and felt UChicago was the superior side. It's not personal animus. Until this year's breakout, most people nationally didn't have an opinion on NPU for good or ill.

NPU fans can feel defensive about the reaction to their advancement, as is their right. If they go out and beat Messiah, the kudos will come in droves. Making the Final Four for any team is a massive achievement that can't be cheapened by comments on a message board.

Simultaneously, Chicago supporters will be rightfully salty forevermore about the called-off goal and the accurate feeling that they should be in the final instead. You can't begrudge them that opinion either. NPU did not look impressive in the semifinal (it's one game, it happens), and their great goalie pulled them through the fire. NPU can be both good and lucky - both are required to advance to this stage.

Excellent points. I personally thought Chicago would win, but that it would be a close game decided in OT. As for the game, I think the Maroons were quite unlucky and got hosed on the blown call, but ultimately they had enough chances to put the game away in regulation that they didn't take advantage of.

While I think that North Park does have a chance tonight, it will have to step up its performance level. Messiah is extremely good in possession -- better than Chicago IMHO -- so they will have to be at their best to keep the Falcons out.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 4samuy on December 02, 2017, 11:09:38 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 08:33:32 AM
Quote from: Dubuquer on December 02, 2017, 07:49:14 AM
Admittedly I was not paying full attention to the game but I feel like I heard Koh and Adeosun's names called all night, but I barely remember hearing Lopez mentioned. Am I wrong in thinking that?  Brandeis keeper may have been caught out but it wasn't as bad as the way Loras lost their 2013 semi in overtime to RUC via a 60 yard floater that carried in the San Antonio breeze. That one still hurts in Dubuque.

You would be correct — Lopez had a couple of efforts in the air but Adeyosun and Koh were the main Maroon sources of danger.

And all three are back next year.  Wow.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 11:15:29 AM
Kudos to Mr. Blooter on the game recaps.  Incredible detail with great balance.  And per usual a great job by blooter and RH on the semifinal previews.

I'd like to add my appreciation for Mr.Right's NESCAC team look-ahead breakdowns as well.  Few other than blooter could have come close to pulling that off, and I can't imagine that any of us could have come close to duplicating that effort for any other conference. 

Loose ends....

I wish NPU well tonight and apologize if my comment seemed unkind.  I fully expected NPU to show much better last night, and perhaps they will today as we all would appreciate a very competitive final.  The Vikings prevailed, which of course is what counts, but just based on yesterday they looked like the weakest team in the field.  Can't imagine why a team wouldn't show up with their best effort for a NCAA semifinal.  If I was a Chicago fan I'd be more than salty....thoroughly dominated the game with the exception of a brief spell late in regulation and the 1st OT and had a good goal taken away.  I suspect Messiah will feel very relieved and fortunate to be in the final after escaping the Brandeis threat, and I would guess the Falcons will play even better in the final. 

At the risk of more anonymous karma shots, I'm assuming I'm not the only viewer wondering, and I'd just like to know.  What is the deal with the heavy beards and long hair for Messiah?  Seems like some sort of tradition but I have no clue what it is about.  Looks like some Woodstock attendees got lost and found their way into Messiah uniforms.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2017, 11:19:07 AM
Quote from: Jim Matson on December 01, 2017, 11:32:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
All the teams are staying in the same hotel... really nice Sheraton actually. Wish I could convince myself to spend the money to stay there. LOL

You should have been put there! You did a great job today. I really enjoyed your broadcast. It was good to hear Ira too.

We are responsible for our own travel arrangements and expenses. I also discovered the "hotel" list from UNCG well after the fact (two or so days ago). Something that never seems to be shared with individuals like myself, the crew, etc. when we are making arrangements. Could have saved a little more money as well.

That said, the Sheraton is across I40 from me... so I am basically in the same area as the teams.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 11:26:16 AM
One correction for the announcing crew.  Messiah was never down to Stevens.  Falcons were up 2-0, then 2-1, then 3-1 and Stevens added one late to close to 3-2.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 11:15:29 AM
Kudos to Mr. Blooter on the game recaps.  Incredible detail with great balance.  And per usual a great job by blooter and RH on the semifinal previews.

I'd like to add my appreciation for Mr.Right's NESCAC team look-ahead breakdowns as well.  Few other than blooter could have come close to pulling that off, and I can't imagine that any of us could have come close to duplicating that effort for any other conference. 

Loose ends....

I wish NPU well tonight and apologize if my comment seemed unkind.  I fully expected NPU to show much better last night, and perhaps they will today as we all would appreciate a very competitive final.  The Vikings prevailed, which of course is what counts, but just based on yesterday they looked like the weakest team in the field.  Can't imagine why a team wouldn't show up with their best effort for a NCAA semifinal.  If I was a Chicago fan I'd be more than salty....thoroughly dominated the game with the exception of a brief spell late in regulation and the 1st OT and had a good goal taken away.  I suspect Messiah will feel very relieved and fortunate to be in the final after escaping the Brandeis threat, and I would guess the Falcons will play even better in the final. 

At the risk of more anonymous karma shots, I'm assuming I'm not the only viewer wondering, and I'd just like to know.  What is the deal with the heavy beards and long hair for Messiah?  Seems like some sort of tradition but I have no clue what it is about.  Looks like some Woodstock attendees got lost and found their way into Messiah uniforms.


Thank you...I saw enough Nescac games this year to be able to do the recaps...Bloots fantastic job on the recaps..+k...I will say North Park looked overmatched last night BUT they did show well defensively and DID take Lopez completely out of the game..He was invisible all night and North Park did very well on him especially on set pieces..They bodied him up very well..They will be defending all night tonight but if they sit 10 behind the ball they will have a shot. They work hard, defend and are a very physical bunch so they might frustrate Messiah..Here's hoping at least so we have a good close Final..They just have nothing going forward IMO..They will have a chance on the counter tonight as Messiah will be taking way more chances in attack than Chicago did and will be sending #'s forward so maybe North Park will show better going forward..They MUST get to Halftime 0-0 though..Should be interesting
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 12:25:49 PM
Do we have a link to the Final 4 pressers last night?  Would like to hear all 4 coaches and players and their thoughts
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 01:11:24 PM
Much appreciated, gents. Well, after a disappointing result yesterday, today is a better day, namely because I am currently here. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/133wSMrIa5LS-S9LmVv-Qx-1XhguKx0aC/view?usp=sharing) ;D

(I'm aware my obsession may be unhealthy, both mentally and physically. That said, you always want what you can't have, so most trips down south yield such a diversion.)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: 2xfaux on December 02, 2017, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 11:15:29 AM
Kudos to Mr. Blooter on the game recaps.  Incredible detail with great balance.  And per usual a great job by blooter and RH on the semifinal previews.

I'd like to add my appreciation for Mr.Right's NESCAC team look-ahead breakdowns as well.  Few other than blooter could have come close to pulling that off, and I can't imagine that any of us could have come close to duplicating that effort for any other conference. 

Loose ends....

I wish NPU well tonight and apologize if my comment seemed unkind.  I fully expected NPU to show much better last night, and perhaps they will today as we all would appreciate a very competitive final.  The Vikings prevailed, which of course is what counts, but just based on yesterday they looked like the weakest team in the field.  Can't imagine why a team wouldn't show up with their best effort for a NCAA semifinal.  If I was a Chicago fan I'd be more than salty....thoroughly dominated the game with the exception of a brief spell late in regulation and the 1st OT and had a good goal taken away.  I suspect Messiah will feel very relieved and fortunate to be in the final after escaping the Brandeis threat, and I would guess the Falcons will play even better in the final. 

At the risk of more anonymous karma shots, I'm assuming I'm not the only viewer wondering, and I'd just like to know.  What is the deal with the heavy beards and long hair for Messiah?  Seems like some sort of tradition but I have no clue what it is about.  Looks like some Woodstock attendees got lost and found their way into Messiah uniforms.

I am a 70 year old Messiah fan who was at Woodstock and I don't remember seeing any of these kids there but it was a big crowd so you might be right,
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on December 02, 2017, 09:50:17 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 12:30:48 AM
Ah, they've already made up their minds. They've written off NPU. Let them.

No one wrote off NPU before the semifinal game, in fact everyone was pretty sure it would be a great match-up, with many split opinions on who would advance. People are mostly reacting in disappointment to the fact that the Vikings were dominated for 100 minutes and felt UChicago was the superior side. It's not personal animus. Until this year's breakout, most people nationally didn't have an opinion on NPU for good or ill.

I didn't take it as personal animus, blue_jays. I was reacting to some very openly-expressed thoughts in this room that NPU didn't have a chance against Messiah. The motivation behind those posts was not my concern.

Quote from: blue_jays on December 02, 2017, 09:50:17 AMNPU fans can feel defensive about the reaction to their advancement, as is their right. If they go out and beat Messiah, the kudos will come in droves. Making the Final Four for any team is a massive achievement that can't be cheapened by comments on a message board.

Agreed.

Quote from: blue_jays on December 02, 2017, 09:50:17 AMSimultaneously, Chicago supporters will be rightfully salty forevermore about the called-off goal and the accurate feeling that they should be in the final instead. You can't begrudge them that opinion either. NPU did not look impressive in the semifinal (it's one game, it happens), and their great goalie pulled them through the fire. NPU can be both good and lucky - both are required to advance to this stage.

I begrudge them nothing, because I fully agree that Chicago supporters have that right. In fact, I implied as much in my earlier post about how the Maroons acted with class after the match was over, as per NPU head coach John Born's statement in the press conference.

Everybody who supports NPU is fully aware of the situation. There are no partisan blinders at work here. The Vikings were badly outplayed for all but about fifteen of the 110 minutes of soccer last night, and they only advanced because in this sport a great performance by the goalkeeper can flip an otherwise-earned outcome in a way that really doesn't happen in other sports (aside from hockey). NPU got such a performance from Stulen, and that's why they're going to take the pitch tonight instead of the Maroons. And the Vikings will be a decided underdog to Messiah, based upon the respective performances of the two sides last night, and NPU fans are aware of that as well.

You won't find a Vikings fan anywhere who disagrees with any of these assessments, so no lectures are necessary.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 01:38:57 PM
Sager,

you mentioned last night that you saw the Chicago and North Park press conferences after the game...Do you have a link for them?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 02, 2017, 01:51:21 PM
No, I only saw the NPU press conference. It's posted on the Facebook page of the North Park University Alumni Association.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: 2xfaux on December 02, 2017, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 11:15:29 AM
Kudos to Mr. Blooter on the game recaps.  Incredible detail with great balance.  And per usual a great job by blooter and RH on the semifinal previews.

I'd like to add my appreciation for Mr.Right's NESCAC team look-ahead breakdowns as well.  Few other than blooter could have come close to pulling that off, and I can't imagine that any of us could have come close to duplicating that effort for any other conference. 

Loose ends....

I wish NPU well tonight and apologize if my comment seemed unkind.  I fully expected NPU to show much better last night, and perhaps they will today as we all would appreciate a very competitive final.  The Vikings prevailed, which of course is what counts, but just based on yesterday they looked like the weakest team in the field.  Can't imagine why a team wouldn't show up with their best effort for a NCAA semifinal.  If I was a Chicago fan I'd be more than salty....thoroughly dominated the game with the exception of a brief spell late in regulation and the 1st OT and had a good goal taken away.  I suspect Messiah will feel very relieved and fortunate to be in the final after escaping the Brandeis threat, and I would guess the Falcons will play even better in the final. 

At the risk of more anonymous karma shots, I'm assuming I'm not the only viewer wondering, and I'd just like to know.  What is the deal with the heavy beards and long hair for Messiah?  Seems like some sort of tradition but I have no clue what it is about.  Looks like some Woodstock attendees got lost and found their way into Messiah uniforms.

I am a 70 year old Messiah fan who was at Woodstock and I don't remember seeing any of these kids there but it was a big crowd so you might be right,

Touche!  Excellent reply.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 02:14:44 PM
Just a note that if you happened to hear the announcers last night talking quickly about Arcadia leaving the MAC here is the article to which they were referring and other schools leaving and joining new conferences.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming

Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 02:20:44 PM
Watching Messiah's 1st goal it came off a quick set piece that Brandies was not ready for. Brandeis was preparing for a shot from 25 yards and messiah put the ball down and played quickly wide and caused the defensive breakdown and led to 2 guys on the back post wide open..That was a definite communication breakdown defensively for Brandeis and yes Woodhouse gambled but it is split second stuff like that especially on set pieces that lead to goals. Woodhouse or even Walter needed to communicate faster..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 02:37:56 PM
Brandeis 2nd goal with 10 minutes left was a fantastic counter..I will say Messiah's #21 Brautigam was at fault bigtime..He failed to tackle a Brandeis player at midfield that led to the counter..He went in "soft" and just flat out did not want to get stuck in..Then he tracked back and the ball got deflected to him and gave a POOR ball to #4 Quintin(Who btw I thought was such a dangerous player last night) who had to stretch out for it and toe poke it back to #6 Ruiz Plaza. Ruiz Plaza just flat out gave the ball away right back to Brandeis which led to the play out wide and then the eventual cross and goal. #21 B rautigam lazily tracked back and that led to 2 WIDE open Brandeis players on the 6 yard line. #21 and #6 really lazily tracked back on the play especially #6 who gives the ball away and then is basically ball watching on the play as he was limping? back....Interesting breakdown though


I will say of course #21 Brautigam mpre tha made up for it with his dagger in the 105th minute...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 02:14:44 PM
Just a note that if you happened to hear the announcers last night talking quickly about Arcadia leaving the MAC here is the article to which they were referring and other schools leaving and joining new conferences.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming


We knew Castleton State was joining the Little East next year which should be very interesting but it also looks like Thomas More is leaving its conference but it does not say what conference they will be joining..


Did not know Eastern Nazerene leaving the CCC for the NECC which should be a better fit for them athletically as at least in Men's Soccer the NECC is one of the worst in the country. The CCC has been on the upswing the past 10 years or so in Men's Soccer with Endicott, Gordon and Roger Williams plus WNEC..I will say that Mitchell out of the NECC played very well in this years NCAA's v St.Joe's
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 04:22:27 PM
Let's hope the Men's Final is as entertaining as this Women's Final...Great game
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:07:36 PM
Is the game at 5:00 or 7:00???
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Saint of Old on December 02, 2017, 05:12:04 PM
We will have a worthy champion.
North Park does not have that record by chance, and they are playing with the knowledge that if they win it they are cemented in History.

They will be the squad that set the standard for what will likely be a strong program for years to come hopefully.

Wile the Messiah boys will look for their 11th, it just never gets old.
What a program they are.
I played them once back in the day, and they played back then as they do now, hard, clean and with skill.

Congrats to the King, it has been a great year.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:18:05 PM
Yea...whaat time is the game?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:21:53 PM
Bloots, are you the only one in the D3soccer.com offices?  Put down the Bojangles and tell us what time the friggin game is and fix the error on the site.  And in between give us a preview of all UAA teams for next year.  How about CWRU?  Another killer schedule?

I had everything ready to go for 5:00.  Snacks, alcohol, the Ukrainian women.  Let's get this game going.

Let's at least get the Dragon Slayer goal going on a loop so that at least BF is happy.  Are all the 2013 and 2014 Messiah players in Greensboro???

And how about some D3soccer.com cameras inside the locker room?  Especially want to hear Coach Born's pre-game speech.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:21:53 PM
Bloots, are you the only one in the D3soccer.com offices?  Put down the Bojangles and tell us what time the friggin game is and fix the error on the site.  And in between give us a preview of all UAA teams for next year.  How about CWRU?  Another killer schedule?

I had everything ready to go for 5:00.  Snacks, alcohol, the Ukrainian women.  Let's get this game going.

Hahaha I have zero admin access, and with good reason — I can barely keep my own blog (http://www.speedbirdspotter.com) running (shameless plug). I did check the NCAA broadcast website and it said the broadcast doesn't start until 7 so I am confident that's the KO time.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 05:29:31 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:21:53 PM
I had everything ready to go for 5:00.  Snacks, alcohol, the Ukrainian women.  Let's get this game going.

Let's at least get the Dragon Slayer goal going on a loop so that at least BF is happy.  Are all the 2013 and 2014 Messiah players in Greensboro???

And how about some D3soccer.com cameras inside the locker room?  Especially want to hear Coach Born's pre-game speech.

You just made me launch into a fit of laughter in front of a group of old ladies, and they seemed bemused. Then again, there is a lot to laugh at with me, so maybe it wasn't you after all.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
lol....if anyone is bored while waiting for the Final I do know the NCAA D1 Elite 8 match-ups start at 6pm....If you are looking for a cinderella look know further than Fordham at UNC and KO is 6pm....
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:37:40 PM
Biggest NCAA tourney disappointments.....#1) Rowan; 2) Trinity (TX); 3) Kenyon; 4) Lycoming; 5) Amherst; 6) Oneonta; 7) Cortland; 8) Lynchburg

Worst draw....John Carroll

Best draws....W&L, Kenyon, North Park, Messiah
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2017, 05:38:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 02:14:44 PM
Just a note that if you happened to hear the announcers last night talking quickly about Arcadia leaving the MAC here is the article to which they were referring and other schools leaving and joining new conferences.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming


We knew Castleton State was joining the Little East next year which should be very interesting but it also looks like Thomas More is leaving its conference but it does not say what conference they will be joining..


Did not know Eastern Nazerene leaving the CCC for the NECC which should be a better fit for them athletically as at least in Men's Soccer the NECC is one of the worst in the country. The CCC has been on the upswing the past 10 years or so in Men's Soccer with Endicott, Gordon and Roger Williams plus WNEC..I will say that Mitchell out of the NECC played very well in this years NCAA's v St.Joe's

The reason you don't know what conference they are leaving for... is because the new conference has yet to name themselves or set much else up, last I was told. Arcadia's status is up in the air. I have been told they are assuredly leaving for the new conference, but I am told by others they are convinced they are not leaving. Arcadia is going through a presidential change and apparently has left this decision for the new president... SMH. The new conference is leaving a spot open for Arcadia who will not suffer any punishment (financial or otherwise) if they choose to leave the MAC as the conference does not have that built in to its by-laws.

Per the moves you have talked about out of New England, notice the newest news is that the NAC will welcome Maine-Presque Isle and SUNY-Canton to their conference starting next academic year. I am told the moves may not end there especially with at least one Maine school possibly finishing up (or sent in) their paperwork to transition to Division III. There are also possibly some moves a foot in New York State, but I have not been able to confirm exactly what might be going on there and with whom.





And for those of you wondering... 7:00pm ET for tonight's championship game. Listed in quite a few places. :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
lol....if anyone is bored while waiting for the Final I do know the NCAA D1 Elite 8 match-ups start at 6pm....If you are looking for a cinderella look know further than Fordham at UNC and KO is 6pm....

ESPNU or online?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:48:34 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
lol....if anyone is bored while waiting for the Final I do know the NCAA D1 Elite 8 match-ups start at 6pm....If you are looking for a cinderella look know further than Fordham at UNC and KO is 6pm....

ESPNU or online?


online...goto UNC mens soccer schedule and hit the stream....It is a very solid stream
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 05:49:57 PM
Falconer, how about some pre-game debate on best Falcon teams ever (1 thru 5) and best Falcon starting XI?  And all of tonight's Falcon starters with their personal best mile times.

I agree with sentiments on Quinton btw.  For his size one of the best players in D3.  His quick start play won the game for Messiah IMHO.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:50:43 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2017, 05:38:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 02:14:44 PM
Just a note that if you happened to hear the announcers last night talking quickly about Arcadia leaving the MAC here is the article to which they were referring and other schools leaving and joining new conferences.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming


We knew Castleton State was joining the Little East next year which should be very interesting but it also looks like Thomas More is leaving its conference but it does not say what conference they will be joining..


Did not know Eastern Nazerene leaving the CCC for the NECC which should be a better fit for them athletically as at least in Men's Soccer the NECC is one of the worst in the country. The CCC has been on the upswing the past 10 years or so in Men's Soccer with Endicott, Gordon and Roger Williams plus WNEC..I will say that Mitchell out of the NECC played very well in this years NCAA's v St.Joe's

The reason you don't know what conference they are leaving for... is because the new conference has yet to name themselves or set much else up, last I was told. Arcadia's status is up in the air. I have been told they are assuredly leaving for the new conference, but I am told by others they are convinced they are not leaving. Arcadia is going through a presidential change and apparently has left this decision for the new president... SMH. The new conference is leaving a spot open for Arcadia who will not suffer any punishment (financial or otherwise) if they choose to leave the MAC as the conference does not have that built in to its by-laws.

Per the moves you have talked about out of New England, notice the newest news is that the NAC will welcome Maine-Presque Isle and SUNY-Canton to their conference starting next academic year. I am told the moves may not end there especially with at least one Maine school possibly finishing up (or sent in) their paperwork to transition to Division III. There are also possibly some moves a foot in New York State, but I have not been able to confirm exactly what might be going on there and with whom.





And for those of you wondering... 7:00pm ET for tonight's championship game. Listed in quite a few places. :)



Am I correct in stating a conference MUST have 7 members for it to be recognized by the NCAA and therefore getting AQ's for the NCAA's and other membership stuff?  If Arcadia left the MAC would that not leave them with 6 teams? or 7?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2017, 05:53:58 PM
No... little more complicated. You need 7 schools in a conference to earn an AQ. You need at least four "core" members to have a conference or retain your conference-ship. The start-ups may need six, but I am not positive of that.

So a few things going on there. The biggest are the first two numbers. 7 are needed to keep the conference AQ for any sport (there are small exceptions, I believe). If a conference splits a part, as long as 4 "core" members are still in the conference, AQs aren't lost and the conference retains its position. If a conference sport dips below the minimum required for an AQ, they have two years to regain that number or then lose the AQ. However, if the core membership is too low, then the AQ goes away immediately - rarely has happened.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: wchandy22 on December 02, 2017, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2017, 05:53:58 PM
No... little more complicated. You need 7 schools in a conference to earn an AQ. You need at least four "core" members to have a conference or retain your conference-ship. The start-ups may need six, but I am not positive of that.

The MAC Commonwealth currently has nine schools: Albright, Alvernia, Arcadia, Hood, Lebanon Valley, Lycoming, Messiah, Stevenson, and Widener.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 06:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2017, 05:53:58 PM
No... little more complicated. You need 7 schools in a conference to earn an AQ. You need at least four "core" members to have a conference or retain your conference-ship. The start-ups may need six, but I am not positive of that.

So a few things going on there. The biggest are the first two numbers. 7 are needed to keep the conference AQ for any sport (there are small exceptions, I believe). If a conference splits a part, as long as 4 "core" members are still in the conference, AQs aren't lost and the conference retains its position. If a conference sport dips below the minimum required for an AQ, they have two years to regain that number or then lose the AQ. However, if the core membership is too low, then the AQ goes away immediately - rarely has happened.

Good info to know...Thanks wchandy as it does not matter as the MAC has 9 members but this is the reason that once a team announces it may leave these conferences move fast to replace that member
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
lol....if anyone is bored while waiting for the Final I do know the NCAA D1 Elite 8 match-ups start at 6pm....If you are looking for a cinderella look know further than Fordham at UNC and KO is 6pm....

Fordham sitting very DEEP in a 4-5-1 but they have started the game out ok,,,
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 06:49:22 PM
Fordham hanging with UNC in the NCAA D1 Elite 8...0-0 almost halftime...Fordham has actually beaten Duke and Virginia to get here...

Akron and Indiana have punched their ticket to the NCAA D1 Final 4 with the winner here going and the winner of maybe the best matchup with the most talent and could be a D1 Final between Wake Forest and Stanford....Both Wake Forest and Stanford have some REAL talent
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 06:51:50 PM
Back to D3..Anyone want to get a prediction for the Final?

Why do I feel it is going to be Messiah 5-0 or 0-0 PK's....nothing in between..I will say I think North Park might surprise us neutrals and give this Messiah side a game...I still say they MUST get to Halftime 0-0
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 06:51:50 PM
Back to D3..Anyone want to get a prediction for the Final?

Why do I feel it is going to be Messiah 5-0 or 0-0 PK's....nothing in between..I will say I think North Park might surprise us neutrals and give this Messiah side a game...I still say they MUST get to Halftime 0-0

I think Messiah wins by one. Can't say whether or not North Park will score, though -- could very well be either 2-1 or 1-0.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

Might have a new Giant Slayer goal. In the words of English fans — "are you watching Brother Flounder?!" ;)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave B on December 02, 2017, 07:12:30 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

I was just typing in the comment that the "Giant Killer" goal came in the first minute or two of the 2014 Tufts game when Messiah put in the equalizer.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:12:58 PM
Just kidding, BF — you can go back to whatever you were doing.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:13:11 PM
North Park NEEDS ti wake up defensively as they are doing a TON of ball watching...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:29:36 PM
North Park playing MUCH better than last night...They are a physical bunch
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:37:12 PM
North Park with a legit chance as a nice backheel gets the ball to North Park's #7 who had a wide open look but has NO LEFT FOOT as he brought it back to his right and hit it weakly
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Jim Matson on December 02, 2017, 07:40:34 PM
A very beautiful match tonight. Messiah is tighter, but North Park has some great moves and really is giving the Falcons a different look than they are used to.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:41:05 PM
North Park looks very dangerous on the counter as Messiah is pretty loose defensively as Brandeis saw last night..They just attack so much with #'s they do give up a ton of space...If North Park could strike a ball on their counters they might get another one..2 Weak Sauce shots though
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Jim Matson on December 02, 2017, 07:41:21 PM
Stock-holm, not Stuck-holm :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 07:45:38 PM
Messiah surprisingly giving away the ball carelessly in bad spots.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 07:49:52 PM
Been hearing all year how good Plaza is...imo has not played well at all in final four.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:52:07 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 07:45:38 PM
Messiah surprisingly giving away the ball carelessly in bad spots.

Also they just give SO MUCH space on the counter..

Messiah scores in the 45th minute....WAY to much BALL watching by north park...This will be an uphill climb now
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
That's tough one to give up. The Vikings had done well in the half and were even in the shot count as best I could tell, but now Messiah has the momentum.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gotberg on December 02, 2017, 07:58:45 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
That's tough one to give up. The Vikings had done well in the half and were even in the shot count as best I could tell, but now Messiah has the momentum.

Gustav Ericcson is a great player, but he made a bad choice trying to play forward, turning it over with about 50 seconds remaining which led to the Messiah goal.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

Might have a new Giant Slayer goal. In the words of English fans — "are you watching Brother Flounder?!" ;)

BLOOTS, there will only ever be one GIANT SLAYER GOL!  Lol.  As it turns out, it remains true. ...  let's get North Park another gol or 2!  Mr. Salad dressing... short half time given the show is Kenyon championship win highlights! Lol.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Jim Matson on December 02, 2017, 08:07:10 PM
I like how the Falcons have kept pushing, even when it appeared to me that North Park was controlling the last 15 minutes or so. Their discipline is impressive.

North Park needs to act like they really want this. Messiah sure the heck does.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

Might have a new Giant Slayer goal. In the words of English fans — "are you watching Brother Flounder?!" ;)

BLOOTS, there will only ever be one GIANT SLAYER GOL!  Lol.  As it turns out, it remains true. ...  let's get North Park another gol or 2!  Mr. Salad dressing... short half time given the show is Kenyon championship win highlights! Lol.

Good one, BF.  At least you didn't enjoy your one trip to Gambier!  Hopefully you did have an opportunity to stroll around the nation's most beautiful campus.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

Might have a new Giant Slayer goal. In the words of English fans — "are you watching Brother Flounder?!" ;)

BLOOTS, there will only ever be one GIANT SLAYER GOL!  Lol.  As it turns out, it remains true. ...  let's get North Park another gol or 2!  Mr. Salad dressing... short half time given the show is Kenyon championship win highlights! Lol.

Good one, BF.  At least you didn't enjoy your one trip to Gambier!  Hopefully you did have an opportunity to stroll around the nation's most beautiful campus.

Salad Dressing... thanks! And for the negative k... where is Gambier?
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:17:22 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

Might have a new Giant Slayer goal. In the words of English fans — “are you watching Brother Flounder?!” ;)

BLOOTS, there will only ever be one GIANT SLAYER GOL!  Lol.  As it turns out, it remains true. ...  let’s get North Park another gol or 2!  Mr. Salad dressing... short half time given the show is Kenyon championship win highlights! Lol.

Good one, BF.  At least you didn't enjoy your one trip to Gambier!  Hopefully you did have an opportunity to stroll around the nation's most beautiful campus.

Salad Dressing... thanks! And for the negative k... where is Gambier?

Didn't give you any negative karma...sorry.  Google Gambier, OH.

Just gave you a +k to prove it.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 08:26:41 PM
North park staying in shouting distance but they are going to need some luck or a fantastic bounce to get back in...Messiah missing a 3rd goal by inches about 3 different times..
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:28:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 08:26:41 PM
North park staying in shouting distance but they are going to need some luck or a fantastic bounce to get back in...Messiah missing a 3rd goal by inches about 3 different times..

Agree.  Messiah very smartly going hard for the 3rd to leave nothing to chance.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 08:30:17 PM
That Messiah left side is ripping NPU apart. We all knew about how dangerous West is but I have been very impressed with Quintin.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:33:51 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 08:30:17 PM
That Messiah left side is ripping NPU apart. We all knew about how dangerous West is but I have been very impressed with Quintin.

Yeah, Quinton is phenomenal.  Very talented bu also super-smart player.  He's had a great tournament....and has 2 years left.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 08:36:47 PM
I thought he looked even more dangerous v Brandeis...North Park starting to look very Leg Heavy...Coming in late and not pressing as much as they need to..They have not been getting anything off the counter like 1st Half
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:17:22 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:10:21 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:00:20 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
HOLY CRAP....North Park strikes first....Took them 1 minute to throw my anemic offensively description of them out the window...lol....Any possibility Messiah watched their game yesterday and might be a tad over confident....Who knows but UNREAL

Might have a new Giant Slayer goal. In the words of English fans — "are you watching Brother Flounder?!" ;)

BLOOTS, there will only ever be one GIANT SLAYER GOL!  Lol.  As it turns out, it remains true. ...  let's get North Park another gol or 2!  Mr. Salad dressing... short half time given the show is Kenyon championship win highlights! Lol.

Good one, BF.  At least you didn't enjoy your one trip to Gambier!  Hopefully you did have an opportunity to stroll around the nation's most beautiful campus.

Salad Dressing... thanks! And for the negative k... where is Gambier?

Didn't give you any negative karma...sorry.  Google Gambier, OH.

Just gave you a +k to prove it.

Thanks, Paul.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 08:42:20 PM
North Park might get 1 more SOG before the Final Whistle and they will have to score on it
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Thanks, Paul.

No problem, 'Meg.  Any time.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 08:54:11 PM
Messiah impressively dropping into a defensive shell and were not allowing North Park anything as North Park's final pass was not there but in the last minute they have had 2 VERY GOOD looks and had to finish 1 of them...Striker has got to finish that..best chance they will get
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 08:57:53 PM
Well, a 2-1 Final. Gutsy win by the Falcons, but great effort by the Vikings.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 09:02:11 PM
Congrats to Messiah...A nice win to cap a 2017 D3 Soccer Season....I really enjoyed the ride this year and thank all the other posters in this community that make it fun to sign in every day
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 09:04:15 PM
Courageous effort for NPU. 

Congrats to Messiah.  Amazing program and all that talent doesn't hurt.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 09:16:38 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2017, 09:02:11 PM
Congrats to Messiah...A nice win to cap a 2017 D3 Soccer Season....I really enjoyed the ride this year and thank all the other posters in this community that make it fun to sign in every day

Back at you! Good game!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Thanks, Paul.

No problem, 'Meg.  Any time.

Have a good winter, Petrou...
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Thanks, Paul.

No problem, 'Meg.  Any time.

Have a good winter, Petrou...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/47/472c5f4cb30c17076301ef01d3d57bb779016edd3ffb14ed44ef57f4ad1b0ed1.jpg
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 09:24:03 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:46:17 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Thanks, Paul.

No problem, 'Meg.  Any time.

Have a good winter, Petrou...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/47/472c5f4cb30c17076301ef01d3d57bb779016edd3ffb14ed44ef57f4ad1b0ed1.jpg

BLOOTS, have a good winter! Always provide good humor!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:25:32 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2017, 09:24:03 PM
BLOOTS, have a good winter! Always provide good humor!

Same to you! I try!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on December 02, 2017, 09:33:31 PM
A terrific end to an amazing season. I don't do well with cell phones and I  on the road again so I will keep my comments short tonight. Might say more in a day or two once I am home and have a keyboard.

I saw just the final four minutes of this final four. If anyone can imagine it. Was literally sitting in live performances both nights--my daughter is a musician. Had to get just the fleeting quick glance at the live stats to follow both games until I got to my hotel room tonight. Family comes first.

So, I can't comment at all on how they played this weekend. I gather from the comments here that it was to some extent a repeat of the sectionals with the Falcons dominating possession and taking care of business.

So my comments later will be reflective on the whole season in light of the tradition and thoughts about the future. If anyone will still be paying attention.

I sign off tonight with just two comments. First, a conjecture without having time to check the data. Messiah wasn't shut out this year. I know that's true--and rare even for them. Can any other top 10 team match this? As important as defense is--very important to be sure--you gotta score to win, especially come November and December. Nobody in the running wants a shootout. This team always got at least one goal, every game. I will want to look at the archive and see how often they have done that. Maybe FW will beat me to it.

Second, many here earlier this season were saying that the second team wasn't getting it done as they had in the past, that Messiah wasn't as deep as they used to be. Well, the second team got lottof PT in the second half of the season including all 6 tournament games, and they just kept getting better. At first it was better at holding the game where it was, but then they started making a difference on the scoreboard and in the end they were pretty good. The backups scored the first goal vs Brandeis and the GW tonight by a guy who spent most of his career either recovering from major injuries or riding the bench. That's huge. And a hugely satisfying win. Much more so than some of the others. These guys played to their max.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
Wow...I heard someone say it was the first of the season for Haines...didn't know it was the first of his CAREER.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on December 02, 2017, 10:13:48 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
Wow...I heard someone say it was the first of the season for Haines...didn't know it was the first of his CAREER.

Exactly. He's in the same class as West and Bell and Alejos and Bratigam and Ruiz Plaza. But, he missed the whole first year with an ACL or similar injury. Your job the first year is to figure out the system--which is complicated like Knight's motion offense and takes most of that year to master. So he didn't play much his second year either since he was basically a freshman in experience.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Falconer on December 02, 2017, 10:36:23 PM
After years of study and careful reflection, now that the final data point is obtained, I formally state Falconer's Rule: to win the big kahuna, a team must first lose a quarter final game in the NESCAC or lose the MAC Commonwealth AQ to Lycoming.

Now we know why Tufts was toast, NPU was doomed, Chicago wasn't gonna do it, and Calvin couldn't get it done. They just didn't meet the prerequisite. End of story. Class dismissed. Watch your step on the way out.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: markerickson on December 02, 2017, 11:54:21 PM
I look forward to a Messiah v North Park game 52 weeks from now.  The better team won today.  Congrats, Messiah.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: stillwatching on December 03, 2017, 01:11:21 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2017, 08:33:51 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 08:30:17 PM
That Messiah left side is ripping NPU apart. We all knew about how dangerous West is but I have been very impressed with Quintin.

Yeah, Quinton is phenomenal.  Very talented bu also super-smart player.  He's had a great tournament....and has 2 years left.

I've mentioned before, my son was a member of a different team within the same club as Shay, and has played on the same team with him on their college age player's summer team for the past 2 years.  He is just a terrific kid, and a great player.   Really really pleased for him, and the Messiah team. 

Was traveling home from Florida today, and did not get to see any of the final.  If we were home, I definitely would have tried to catch some of the stream
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: mr_b on December 03, 2017, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: Falconer on December 02, 2017, 10:36:23 PM
After years of study and careful reflection, now that the final data point is obtained, I formally state Falconer's Rule: to win the big kahuna, a team must first lose a quarter final game in the NESCAC or lose the MAC Commonwealth AQ to Lycoming.

Now we know why Tufts was toast, NPU was doomed, Chicago wasn't gonna do it, and Calvin couldn't get it done. They just didn't meet the prerequisite. End of story. Class dismissed. Watch your step on the way out.
Messiah deserved to win, but North Park deserved to be there.  Brandeis and Chicago would also have been worthy champions. It was not the cakewalk that some posters were predicting.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: OldMCGuy on December 03, 2017, 10:31:35 AM
As a Zimbabwe-born Messiah soccer alum from the late 1960's - early 70's I went to elementary school with a handful of very athletic Swedish missionary kids.  Last night's game felt like a reunion of sorts.  (Special thanks to Gregory Sager's wonderfully informative essay on North Park University.)

Congratulations to the Messiah senior class...they finally got their ring...just like every other class since the late 1990's when my nephews played there.  I also love that some of the truly important contributions were made by "unsung heroes".  That is a reflection on the team's skill, depth and character.  There are a lot of subs there who could start almost anywhere else.  It is just nice that they can still get their names in the pantheon of heroes from time to time.

Of course, there is no way that I would ever have been recruited to play for the recent iterations of Messiah teams...Way...Too...Slow!.  However, in my day, if you had ever touched a round, leather ball with your feet you were automatically on the team.

Congratulations to the Vikings, they played a very spirited game and I am sure they will be back.  They showed great skill and their coaches demonstrated an uncanny ability to adapt their strategy quickly to the take the best possible advantage of the situations in each of their games in the tournament.

Congratulations to Brandeis.  They are truly a class organization.  The discipline, character and demeanor of the players in each of their games no matter the outcome was truly exemplary.  They showed what D3 sports...and life in general...should be like.

Congratulations to Chicago.  I wish Messiah had the chance to play them, but they scared me more than any other team.  So much skill!  Maybe next year.

Finally, thanks to the active participants (Right, Blooter, Newman, Falconer, Weasel, FirstPlace and many others) on this forum and all the folks behind the scenes that make it work.  It has been a fun year. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: wchandy22 on December 03, 2017, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: OldMCGuy on December 03, 2017, 10:31:35 AM
As a Zimbabwe-born Messiah soccer alum from the late 1960's - early 70's I went to elementary school with a handful of very athletic Swedish missionary kids.  Last night's game felt like a reunion of sorts.  (Special thanks to Gregory Sager's wonderfully informative essay on North Park University.)

Wow!  You played in the very early years (Drescher, Barr, and Sweimler).  I assume its safe to assume that you had no idea back then what the Messiah soccer program would become today.  I have been watching Messiah soccer since 1984 and wish I had the opportunity to watch you and your teams play.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: OldMCGuy on December 03, 2017, 01:26:04 PM
Quote from: wchandy22 on December 03, 2017, 12:26:04 PM

Wow!  You played in the very early years (Drescher, Barr, and Sweimler).  I assume its safe to assume that you had no idea back then what the Messiah soccer program would become today.  I have been watching Messiah soccer since 1984 and wish I had the opportunity to watch you and your teams play.

Just Barr and Sweimler
You are correct "we had no idea..."
I would like to think that if you had seen us play that you may have observed the same level of intensity.  I am sanguine enough to say that you would have seen a lot less artistry.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Saint of Old on December 03, 2017, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: OldMCGuy on December 03, 2017, 10:31:35 AM
As a Zimbabwe-born Messiah soccer alum from the late 1960's - early 70's I went to elementary school with a handful of very athletic Swedish missionary kids.  Last night's game felt like a reunion of sorts.  (Special thanks to Gregory Sager's wonderfully informative essay on North Park University.)

Congratulations to the Messiah senior class...they finally got their ring...just like every other class since the late 1990's when my nephews played there.  I also love that some of the truly important contributions were made by "unsung heroes".  That is a reflection on the team's skill, depth and character.  There are a lot of subs there who could start almost anywhere else.  It is just nice that they can still get their names in the pantheon of heroes from time to time.

Of course, there is no way that I would ever have been recruited to play for the recent iterations of Messiah teams...Way...Too...Slow!.  However, in my day, if you had ever touched a round, leather ball with your feet you were automatically on the team.

Congratulations to the Vikings, they played a very spirited game and I am sure they will be back.  They showed great skill and their coaches demonstrated an uncanny ability to adapt their strategy quickly to the take the best possible advantage of the situations in each of their games in the tournament.

Congratulations to Brandeis.  They are truly a class organization.  The discipline, character and demeanor of the players in each of their games no matter the outcome was truly exemplary.  They showed what D3 sports...and life in general...should be like.

Congratulations to Chicago.  I wish Messiah had the chance to play them, but they scared me more than any other team.  So much skill!  Maybe next year.

Finally, thanks to the active participants (Right, Blooter, Newman, Falconer, Weasel, FirstPlace and many others) on this forum and all the folks behind the scenes that make it work.  It has been a fun year. Thanks!

Yes Brother Zimbabwe.
"Every man have a right to decide his... own destiny"- Marley

Messiah is was and always has been a class program.
Their alumni has always been a strong brotherhood committed to each other and the team... wayyy before they started collecting hardware.

I played this team in the late 90s tourney and luckily got by them, only to find a Messiah alum coaching the next opponent in the final 4.
They are everywhere, and have been spreading good soccer for decades now.
Tough to root against this team, even when you want to.

Many people know the Freddie Mercury/Queen ballad ("We are the Champions My Friend")
What is important is the very next line explaining why this is so ("We'll keep on fighting till the end").
That's Messiah, Champions.
They were down and about to lose early in the season against Rowan, but fought till the end and prevailed.
They were down twice in the semis and fought back to win.
They were also down in the final and managed victory.

How many teams in the history of the NCAA's regardless of division have ever been down 3 times in the final 4 and still end as champions??
The one truth, in my opinion, about our game is that if a team comes from behind and beat you, they are better than you.

The best team in the country are deserved champions.
Class program.
Class kids.

Now cmon Amherst, Chicago, Lycoming, OWU, Trinity, Cortland, Oneonta, Tufts, You Saints....
Lets knock em off that throne :)
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 03, 2017, 06:13:02 PM


I played this team in the late 90s tourney and luckily got by them, only to find a Messiah alum coaching the next opponent in the final 4.
They are everywhere, and have been spreading good soccer for decades now.
Tough to root against this team, even when you want to.

[/quote]


they really are EVERYWHERE. a lot of coaches that I speak too are college alumni and some are college coaches now. Soccer around NJ is really starting to improve. can't speak for PA DE area but from the looks of it id say they are doing alright.

random question. where do Messiah commits normally play? what level and what clubs? NJ has a few well known teams so I wasn't sure
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: irapthor on December 03, 2017, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
Wow...I heard someone say it was the first of the season for Haines...didn't know it was the first of his CAREER.

Yeah, for the broadcast I had in my notes he had never scored before...so when he DID score I did a double take before saying it on air
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2017, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: irapthor on December 03, 2017, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 02, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
Wow...I heard someone say it was the first of the season for Haines...didn't know it was the first of his CAREER.

Yeah, for the broadcast I had in my notes he had never scored before...so when he DID score I did a double take before saying it on air

I did a triple take... checked my notes... wasn't sure... went to check again... figured just maybe that was the case... you then said it and I thought "oh please be right" because... NO WAY! Totally awesome a career first goal ends up being a championship clinching goal.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Ommadawn on December 03, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
Kulcsar's GWG last year for Tufts was his first career goal, too.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: blooter442 on December 03, 2017, 10:38:21 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
Kulcsar's GWG last year for Tufts was his first career goal, too.

And his only! That would be a great story to tell — "yeah I only scored one goal, but it was the double overtime winner in the national championship game."
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2017, 11:19:02 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 03, 2017, 10:38:21 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
Kulcsar's GWG last year for Tufts was his first career goal, too.

And his only! That would be a great story to tell — "yeah I only scored one goal, but it was the double overtime winner in the national championship game."

Oh that's right! Darn it all. LOL
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: rudy on December 03, 2017, 11:37:23 PM
Finals post game press for both teams if interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojh8UGsrx7I

Brandeis  vs Messiah Press
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orPnxFMhUTs

NP vs Chicago Press
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz9W8yHp0Ik
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: wchandy22 on December 04, 2017, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 03, 2017, 06:13:02 PM
random question. where do Messiah commits normally play? what level and what clubs? NJ has a few well known teams so I wasn't sure

I don't know if anyone answered your question regarding clubs. I can only answer for those recruits from this area (central PA). Many of them played for PA Classics.  Other clubs include North Union United and SuperNova FC.  I believe Christian Pulisic first gained notoriety while playing for PA Classics.  His father used to coach there ... actually his father coached at LVC before that.  Small world.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: firstplaceloser on December 04, 2017, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: wchandy22 on December 04, 2017, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 03, 2017, 06:13:02 PM
random question. where do Messiah commits normally play? what level and what clubs? NJ has a few well known teams so I wasn't sure

I don't know if anyone answered your question regarding clubs. I can only answer for those recruits from this area (central PA). Many of them played for PA Classics.  Other clubs include North Union United and SuperNova FC.  I believe Christian Pulisic first gained notoriety while playing for PA Classics.  His father used to coach there ... actually his father coached at LVC before that.  Small world.

that's what I was looking for haha. but yes I am aware of PA Classics they first came about years ago when a guy named Matt Driver started a high level league for kids and we played against PA Classics so many times.
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2017, 08:59:46 PM
Well, I was going to start off my final thoughts on the season with a nod in the direction of Saint of Old for this accurate statement:

Quote from: Saint of Old on December 02, 2017, 05:12:04 PM
North Park does not have that record by chance, and they are playing with the knowledge that if they win it they are cemented in History.

They will be the squad that set the standard for what will likely be a strong program for years to come hopefully.

But then he blew it by omitting NPU here, making me think that the Vikings still haven't dented the consciousness of a lot of you Northeasterners:

Quote from: Saint of Old on December 03, 2017, 05:59:32 PM
Now cmon Amherst, Chicago, Lycoming, OWU, Trinity, Cortland, Oneonta, Tufts, You Saints....
Lets knock em off that throne :)


;)

Seriously, though, he's right. The bad taste of Saturday night for Vikings fans gives way to the realization that this was a magnificent season that really changed everything for the North Park soccer program. Prior to this season, the Vikings had been perennially solid under John Born, sometimes even bordering on outstanding, but they never had anything more than regionally-based respect -- and rightly so, since NPU had never been able to survive the first weekend of the tournament.

This season, the Vikings finally broke through.

They had such a tremendous regular season that they more or less forced the committee's hand into giving them a bye -- and then immediately showed that they deserved it by walloping UW-Platteville by five goals in the second round. They completely dominated Washington & Lee, dominated 2016 Final Four participant St. Thomas as well for 60 minutes (allowing only one non-SOG shot by the Tommies in that time) and then showing the moxie to hold off the Tommies when they sent the extra defender forward and went hammer-and-tongs at the NPU back line and goalkeeper in the waning minutes of the match. They then were the beneficiaries of a terrific performance by Matthias Stulen in goal when they were badly outplayed in the semi by Chicago, surviving the PK shootout, and even though they succumbed to Messiah in the final they still played like they belonged there.

Aside from the incredible pride and happiness that this Vikings side brought to a lot of people affiliated with North Park University comes the knowledge that, as Saint of Old said, they set the standard for what will be a strong program for what will hopefully be years to come. There's no promises that come with that, of course; every year's success has to be earned, as it's not granted automatically by pedigree. But the Vikings program is really in a great place right now, not just because of how much of this roster returns next season but because the success that the Vikings have produced on the field and the support that they get in the stands will likely spur recruiting on to another level, the level that will be necessary to sustain NPU's new status as a national program rather than a regional one.

I've said this dozens of times already in person and in other online venues to the team and the coaches, but I'll say it again here: Thanks for the fantastic ride that you gave us all. It's a privilege and a pleasure to be a part of the NPU soccer program in a minor way as your PBP broadcaster. Best of luck to you in the off-season, as you prepare to attempt to climb the mountain again. Can't wait for '18! Jag är stolt över att vara en North Park Viking!
Title: Re: The Big Dance
Post by: Dubuquer on January 18, 2018, 03:38:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 11:03:13 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 18, 2017, 10:40:31 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2017, 10:31:42 PM
Chicago just CLINICAL...They deserve it....


NOTE:   Emory's GK WAS NOT NEAR any of those PK's....Why make that change? The Emory starter was a lightning quick GK that might have gotten to maybe 1 of those....

Yeah I don't get that.  Maybe because he's a freshman without the experience.  The guy they brought in was quite large, but you're right he didn't seem real comfortable.


Exactly,,,,The other GK like you said was quick as a cat but the GK off the bench almost looked immobile....Still an Elite 8 for an interim Head Coach is not bad. As long as the players give him decent reviews I am sure he will have a leg up on anyone else although maybe still a bit young..Still have no clue why Travis resigned to be an AD in Iowa....Oh Well...They do lose a ton of quality seniors so unless he gets a legit class they might struggle for a year or 2.

News about Travis' new hire at Coe College in Iowa... http://www.coeathletics.com/article/3486.php

Is this the reason Travis left Emory?  Hmmmm...  Hopefully it will lead to another quality side in the IIAC as Coe has been weak for years.