D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

Started by usee, October 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM

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BoBo

#435
Add this one if you include that 06 regular season game:

10/27/07 @ UWW

UWW 41 UMHB 14

As for this week, I see the Cru making significant progress from last weeks narrow victory vs UWL (who was playing their second game).
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

emma17

413 I'm 95% in for tomorrow's tailgate and game- lookin forward to seeing you.

I can't believe I wasn't taken to task for putting UWW at #2?  I was all prepared for that defense. 
Rationale for IWU and Elmhurst:  The conference they play in.  More and more I'm heavily crediting the conference.  I don't think either has a good chance at winning the conference, I happen to believe that a 3rd and 4th place CCIW team is definately a top 25 team though.  I think both of them give any team ranked 10-25 a real ball game.  Significant returning talent on both teams.

Lycoming- I fully admit I don't know much about them, but they beat Rowan, which is a team predicted to go 10-0 (not anymore)- with 18 returning starters.

MHB- Very happy to see they emphasized their passing game.  Developing a passing attack takes a LOT of work that occurs over time- it doesn't happen in one year usually.  Thus, the 3 interceptions.  It's not enough to throw for 250+ yards, you have to complete them to your own team.  IMO this is the thorn in their side and the reason they don't win in the deeper rounds of the playoffs.  The main reason they only lost to UWW, Linfield and Wesely in the playoffs is because they didn't have to play NCC, St. Thomas, Wheaton, Mt, Bethel and some others.  There is a good chance MHB moves up in my rankings from #16, but they didn't do anywhere near enough in week 1 to justify it yet. 

Hardin-Simmons- They've earned it with two good wins.  Yes they got beat by MHB last year, but they return a lot and have the intangible of a new head coach.  I'm banking on them learning to stop the MHB running game.
   
Redlands- This pick is primarily due to the timing of the poll.  As discussed much in previous posts, they beat NCC so they get ranked ahead of them for now.

NCC- Because I believe NCC is a top 8 team and likely top 4, my week 3 rankings are a little skewed due to their first game loss. 

Oshkosh- I know- nobody asked.  Quality game one win and despite the misconceptions of a "blow out" or "second teamers" playing for Mt, they gave Mt a better run the last two years than any team Mt has played not named UWW or Wesley. 
       

BoBo

#437
Are you kidding me emma17? Putting UWW at #2? I'd love to hear your spin on that one!!   ;)  ;)  ;)
(how's that for taking you to task!!)


So what is the reason?

 
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

crufootball

#438
Quote from: emma17 on September 16, 2011, 12:13:51 PM
413 I'm 95% in for tomorrow's tailgate and game- lookin forward to seeing you.

I can't believe I wasn't taken to task for putting UWW at #2?  I was all prepared for that defense. 
Rationale for IWU and Elmhurst:  The conference they play in.  More and more I'm heavily crediting the conference.  I don't think either has a good chance at winning the conference, I happen to believe that a 3rd and 4th place CCIW team is definately a top 25 team though.  I think both of them give any team ranked 10-25 a real ball game.  Significant returning talent on both teams.

Lycoming- I fully admit I don't know much about them, but they beat Rowan, which is a team predicted to go 10-0 (not anymore)- with 18 returning starters.

MHB- Very happy to see they emphasized their passing game.  Developing a passing attack takes a LOT of work that occurs over time- it doesn't happen in one year usually.  Thus, the 3 interceptions.  It's not enough to throw for 250+ yards, you have to complete them to your own team.  IMO this is the thorn in their side and the reason they don't win in the deeper rounds of the playoffs.  The main reason they only lost to UWW, Linfield and Wesely in the playoffs is because they didn't have to play NCC, St. Thomas, Wheaton, Mt, Bethel and some others.  There is a good chance MHB moves up in my rankings from #16, but they didn't do anywhere near enough in week 1 to justify it yet. 

Hardin-Simmons- They've earned it with two good wins.  Yes they got beat by MHB last year, but they return a lot and have the intangible of a new head coach.  I'm banking on them learning to stop the MHB running game.
   
Redlands- This pick is primarily due to the timing of the poll.  As discussed much in previous posts, they beat NCC so they get ranked ahead of them for now.

NCC- Because I believe NCC is a top 8 team and likely top 4, my week 3 rankings are a little skewed due to their first game loss. 

Oshkosh- I know- nobody asked.  Quality game one win and despite the misconceptions of a "blow out" or "second teamers" playing for Mt, they gave Mt a better run the last two years than any team Mt has played not named UWW or Wesley. 
       

Emma, HSU could very well end up beating UMHB this year however it won't be because they learned how to stop our rushing attack it will be because they score more than we do. Since 2006 we have played them 7 times (5 regular season and 2 post season) and have averaged over 300 yards of rushing yards. On top of that Willamette, a team I don't think you even have in the Top 25, ran for 284 yards last week.

In regards to UMHB only losing to UWW, Linfield and Wesley because we didn't play the other teams you listed, you can only beat them teams that the NCAA puts in front of you and consistenly we have made it to the quarter finals or better. And UMHB is proud to be one of very teams that has a winning record against Mt. Union  ;)

smedindy

Several NCAC schools do have winning records against Mt. Union.  Oberlin is 7-7-2 against Mt. Union! (For Oberlin, that's a winner!) And the mighty Denison Big Red is 19-9-1 against the Mount! Ohio Wesleyan is 17-5, Wooster is 38-30-4 and Wittenberg is 18-10.

/old school rivalries





AUKaz00

Quote from: BoBo on September 16, 2011, 12:42:24 PM
Are you kidding me emma17? Putting UWW at #2? I'd love to hear your spin on that one!!   ;)  ;)  ;)

Yeah, they should be 5th just like the NCAA slotted them in last year's playoffs!
Check out the official card game of the AU Pep Band - Str8 Eight!

emma17

Cru- You're absolutely right that MHB can only play the teams they are paired with.  However, as I believe has been the case a bit for Mt. of late, some teams have lesser challenges in the early rounds of the playoffs-through no fault of their own.  Perhaps MHB has benefited from some of those early round matchups.
Good point about Willamette in the top- tough to rank them when they are 0-2- but a good point.  I think they are a very good team and most likely capable of beating several in bottom 10 of poll.  They will need to earn their way back.

UWW as #2- it was my preseason ranking- based entirely on the fact that one of the two Stagg teams has 18 returning starters and one has 9 (11 when counting special teams).  UWW's week 1 win didn't do enough to vault them past an idle Mt.  UWW's week 2 game was outstanding (to see what it really looks like when a team decides to play subs and not go for the jugular- see UWW vs Franklin).  Mt did what they had to do and I give them benefit of the doubt as it was their first game.  In truth I see them 1a and 1b now.  As long as UWW finishes 1, being 2 is fine for now.

02 Warhawk

Quote from: emma17 on September 16, 2011, 02:08:45 PM
  UWW's week 1 win didn't do enough ......... Mt did what they had to do and I give them benefit of the doubt as it was their first game.

So you give the enemy the benefit of the doubt for their first game (at home). But don't give it to your own team who opened up on the road!?!?!  ;)

Just messing you, emma.  :)

crufootball

Quote from: emma17 on September 16, 2011, 02:08:45 PM
Cru- You're absolutely right that MHB can only play the teams they are paired with.  However, as I believe has been the case a bit for Mt. of late, some teams have lesser challenges in the early rounds of the playoffs-through no fault of their own.  Perhaps MHB has benefited from some of those early round matchups.
Good point about Willamette in the top- tough to rank them when they are 0-2- but a good point.  I think they are a very good team and most likely capable of beating several in bottom 10 of poll.  They will need to earn their way back.

UWW as #2- it was my preseason ranking- based entirely on the fact that one of the two Stagg teams has 18 returning starters and one has 9 (11 when counting special teams).  UWW's week 1 win didn't do enough to vault them past an idle Mt.  UWW's week 2 game was outstanding (to see what it really looks like when a team decides to play subs and not go for the jugular- see UWW vs Franklin).  Mt did what they had to do and I give them benefit of the doubt as it was their first game.  In truth I see them 1a and 1b now.  As long as UWW finishes 1, being 2 is fine for now.

Emma just so you know I wasn't trying to say that Willamette should be in the top 25, I mentioned them to show that HSU hasn't learned how to consistenly stop a rushing team, just how to out score them, and that won't change in 2 weeks just like you say we won't become a passing team either.

Kira & Jaxon's Dad

Quote from: smedindy on September 16, 2011, 01:39:19 PM
Several NCAC schools do have winning records against Mt. Union.  Oberlin is 7-7-2 against Mt. Union! (For Oberlin, that's a winner!) And the mighty Denison Big Red is 19-9-1 against the Mount! Ohio Wesleyan is 17-5, Wooster is 38-30-4 and Wittenberg is 18-10.

/old school rivalries

Yet none of these teams will schedule Mount Union for a Non-Conference game anymore.  Hmm...
National Champions - 13: 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2015, 2017

smedindy

Well,

1. Mt. Union only has one game each year to schedule, and in 2013 the NCAC goes round-robin as well.
2. Denison, Oberlin and even OWU would be absolutely insane to schedule it.
3. I like the Witt / Capital rivalry.
4. The post was just for 'laughs', you know, a funny thing!

Toby Taff

Quote from: emma17 on September 16, 2011, 02:08:45 PM
Cru- You're absolutely right that MHB can only play the teams they are paired with.  However, as I believe has been the case a bit for Mt. of late, some teams have lesser challenges in the early rounds of the playoffs-through no fault of their own.  Perhaps MHB has benefited from some of those early round matchups.
Good point about Willamette in the top- tough to rank them when they are 0-2- but a good point.  I think they are a very good team and most likely capable of beating several in bottom 10 of poll.  They will need to earn their way back.
emma, I don't know anything about you other than what I glean from this board so i ask in all seriousness if you pay any attention to what goes on in D3 football in the south during the playoffs? UMHB doesn't get the benefit of anything most of the time because of the geographic proximity rule. Looking back 10 years, most of UMHB's 1st round games have involved HSU or Trinity. Last year both were down so UMHB played Christopher Newport, and the year before that UMHB went on the road to Central. Since 2001 UMHB has played Trinity 5 times in the first round (2 of which were followed by games with HSU in the second rd because of the Texas sub-bracket) and HSU twice. in 2005 UMHB didn't make the field because of a 3 way tie for the conference championship and ETBU had the tie-breaker. That's 7 of 10 years accounted for where there was no benefit of a weak 1st round team 8 including Central in 09. After round one, whoever plays round 2 has "earned" their spot.

What I gather from reading your posts is that you are a WIAC fan and I can respect that. There are a lot of reasons to be proud of what goes on in Wisconsin. I am and ASC fan, and I believe that the ASC is consistently a strong conference from the middle up with UMHB and HSU sitting at the top of the heap. There are a few schools that will probably never be great, like SRSU which ic way out in west Texas where there is a whole lot of nothing, but the group in the middle of the pack Mississippi College, Louisiana College, McMurry, East Texas Baptist and occasionally Texas Lutheran make noise periodically and I think would give a lot of D3 conference champs a run for their money most years.

I read what you said about the importance of a passing game, but keep in mind that UMHB has been dominating a pass happy conference for a while with a ball control ground game that often rushes for more yards than the other team passes for. Where UMHB has a problem is not usually with teams that can stop the run. It's with teams that score fast from a long way out, which is why I think the next 2 weeks will tell the story of the Cru for the 2011 season. McM and HSU both have potent passing attacks and if the Cru takes a quarter or two to get in the game, it'll be over. Oh and I wouldn't worry too much about the 3 picks Bailey threw. I was at the game. One pick was a hail mary at the half. The first pick was a good throw but a great play by the defender to take the ball away and the third was a tip drill that four people touched before the pick.

You know,if you want to see for yourself, the UMHB MCM game will be available on line @6pm central on Saturday.
My wife and I are Alumni of both UMHB and HSU.  You think you are confused, my kids don't know which Purple and Gold team to pull for.

Ralph Turner

I pull these quotes from the ASC board in 2008 about the UWW-UMHB semifinal game.

Quote from: badgerwarhawk on December 13, 2008, 07:40:46 PM
I've watched football games for 50+ years and in that time I have never seen a kickoff go backwards.  I can't even understand how that was possible.  A punt maybe because it's kicked high into the air but a kickoff.  It must have been one hell a wind.  The  ball has to travel at least 10 yards before we have to field it.  Evidently that didn't happen this time so the ball belonged to the WARHAWKS regardless of who recovered it.  What confused me is why the officals had to huddle and discuss it. 

Congrats to UMHB on their successfull season and best wishes for the future.  I'm a big believer in the law of averages but apparently it was irrelevant in this instance.

The second half onside kick went backwards, the wind was so strong.  UMHB was trailing 12-10 at the end of the first half.

Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 13, 2008, 08:10:55 PM
Today was the hardest wind I've ever seen at a football game.  UWW did a much better job handling the wind than the Cru.  The TD drive into the wind before the half might have been the turning point of the game.

A commentary on the second half kickoff that was the turning point of the game, if the 80-yd second quarter drive was not.

Quote from: headlinesman on December 14, 2008, 12:13:02 AM
I, too, was present at the Wind Bowl this afternoon, and I must agree with a couple of the other posters that talked about how Whitewater physically dominated the game.  I believe UMHB got outplayed in all aspects of the game, and that, as sacrireligious as this might be, they also got outcoached.  The kids were confused in the kicking game, and the secondary never did adjust, and a lot of that is coaching.

What I wanted to address, however, is the opening kickoff of the 2nd half.  We all know the rule that says the ball has to travel 10 yards before a member of the kicking team can legally touch the ball.  The Field Judge (FJ) (the guy with the F on his back) was straddling the 40 yd line, also known as the kicking team's restraining liine.  His main job is to make sure the ball travels 10 yards.  Here's where it gets hinky.  Any restraining line is treated as a line, not as a plane, as the goal line is treated.  A kicked ball, by rule, is deemed not to have crossed a line until it touches the ground, a player, or an official on or beyond that line.  In all the confusion, you miay not have noticed, but the FJ had dropped his bean bag on the UMHB 39, signifying that being the spot where the kick first touched the ground.  Of course, we all know that once the ball hit the ground, it looked like a Tiger Woods wedge shot, and shot back toward the UMHB goal line, so the ball, by rule, never crossed the restraining line, hence it never traveled the required 10 yards, hence when the CRU recovered, it constitited illegal touching, giving Whitewater the ball at the spot of the illegal touching.  If the FJ was right, the call was absolutely correct, inasmuch as the home crowd protested.

Some of the confusion occurred up in our part of the stands when some folks started sayint that the ball actually hit the ground at the 42, not the 39.  If that were the case, then the ball crossed the restraining line, and the Cru should have been allowed to keep the ball.  However, without replay, the only way to know will be to look at the game film much after the fact.

I agree with the other poster who said that this game also pointed out the difference in the level of play between us and the Wisconsin/Ohio area.  Obviously, the Cru is the best DIII team in this part of the country, but they've only beaten Mount Union once, and are o-for against Whitewater.  Still, all in all, a great and wonderfully entertaining season for Coach Pete and his student athletes.


Discussion of the 2nd half kickoff


smedindy

Gents,

Unless something else happens, I think I need to recognize Catholic in my #25 spot. Three double digit deficits in the fourth quarter, three wins. They pulled another one out, beating Carnegie Mellon 29-28 after trailing 28-16 entering the fourth.

Holy schmokes!

emma17

Toby,
You raise good points and I just need to reiterate that I don't have a disrespect for MHB or the ASC.  In a post I entered not long ago on the OAC board, I stated that I felt the ASC is a tougher conference than the OAC.  I don't know the ASC like you, but I know enough that MHB has to be very good to win that conference.  The point I am making is that I don't believe MHB is a top 5 team as most do.  My current ranking is only based on 2 weeks into the schedule and time will tell if they should move up.
When it comes to the playoffs, you've had some really lopsided games, even after the first round.  To me, that doesn't necessarily mean MHB is so dominant as much as it means some of the playoff teams haven't been as strong.  In 2010 MHB put up 59 and 69 points in 2 playoff games-in 2008 MHB put up 63 in the 3rd round and in 2007 MHB put up 52 and 64 points.  In all those years MHB eventually lost to a team that must have been much different than those they previously whalloped.  There must be a reason this happens. 
To me, not having seen the games, it must come down to facing a team that can stop the run and when that happens, MHB doesn't have the passing game needed for balance. 
I don't root against MHB.